Bachelor Happy Hour - Kate’s Got That Gravitational Pull

Episode Date: October 26, 2022

This week on “Bachelor Happy Hour,” Kate joins Becca and Michelle for an honest girl chat about her experience on “Paradise” so far. Kate discusses what it was really like to arrive during split week, who she was hoping to see on the beach, and, of course, her connections with Jacob and Logan. Plus, she explains her side of a certain uncomfortable conversation. Don’t forget to rate and subscribe so you never miss an episode.See omny.fm/listener for privacy information.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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What's up, Bachelor Happy Hour? I'm one of your host, Becca Kufrin. And I'm Michelle Young. And we are back with y'all this week to talk, obviously, about Bachelor in Paradise and the two crazy episodes we saw. I know it's getting messy. But this week, it's been crazy in Paradise with the OG girls returning to the beach.

And we're going to be talking with Kate all about the aftermath. Yeah, I'm actually very looking forward to having Kate on to get her scoop on her new relationship with Logan and everything that went down between her and Chenay. But first before that, Michelle, let's catch up. You had a very busy week this past week. You've been traveling all over the place. But one highlight that we have to talk about is you were just in national. and you happened to run into one of my other favorite women on this planet, which is my mom. What are you on?

So crazy. So wild. And that's why my voice is like this is because I've been screaming to country music all weekend. I didn't even know that I knew the words to that many songs. But I think when like the music is so loud, you have to like talk so loud anyways. So excuse the raspy voice. But yeah, I think, Becky, you and I briefly spoke about. that I was going to be in Nashville and you're like oh my gosh like what are the odds my mom's

actually there right now and legitimately like a few hours later we walked into one bar on Broadway and Broadway is huge for anyone like who has been there they know but like for those who haven't a thousand bars yeah it's intense like there are so many different bars it is packed it's like I don't know it's crazy it's crazy in the first bar that I walk into each of these bars tend to have like different levels thousand levels so many levels different bands playing exactly so i we happened to walk into whiskey row and it was like we went upstairs and this lady woman comes walking up to me and she's like oh my god i'm jill coofer and it like took me a second to put the words together because the band was playing and i was like oh my god it was

What are the odds? And then we got to FaceTime, Becca, you. That was so fun. I knew the second you were FaceTiming me. I just had a feeling I was like, she ran into my mom. Mom and Jill's going to be on this other line with her. And it's funny because, like, she wasn't even supposed to go on this trip to begin with. Like, it was, like, she went with a group of friends, but she wasn't originally planning on going last minute, booked her flight left.

And she was there. I think was by herself at that point because all of her friends flew out earlier, right? She was there. No, she, there were like four of them with her. Oh, she was still with people. Okay. Yeah. So that was like, that was like their last place they were going before they went back to the airport to fly back to Minnesota. And the fact that you. The fact that you two saw each other, I'm like, oh my God. She probably, if I'm being honest, would have extended her trip and next time. I think she had so much fun and was so excited. She was so like Michelle and my mom face timed me and we were screenshotting photos of each other. Michelle, the one that you sent me back, I just had so much food in my teeth. And I was like, if she posts this, oh my God, don't you dare. I was like, don't you dare, Michelle? I need to go back and look at that photo that I, that I, that you posted, but that I sent to you, because I didn't see that. But then the one that you posted is not any better.

It's so cute. You're looking at my mom. No, I look like, I'm already lit and I'm like, I haven't knew how to drink yet. Like, first bar, I didn't even get a drink yet. Well, that was, honestly, one of the highlights of my week. I'm so happy you two finally met. And our moms are, like, texting and talking and, like, already planning on meeting each other. And so the fact that you ran into her in a completely different state just makes a whole better.

She was like, I need, like, we all need to plan something so that the four of us can get together. Are you coming home for Thanksgiving? Mm-hmm. We got into something. Okay, we should get something on the calendar for that. but she was saying that and she's like we just all four need to hang out just so then and then me and your mom can just hang out

I was like you can't you can text my mom and go hang out with her before we all four get together they are texting they're already texting they're like BFF via text yeah I love it I just like love the crazy friendships that form like well beyond this show but that was so fun seeing you but how are you doing Becca Phyllis

and I know that when we FaceTime to you and Thomas were in the car what was your weekend like oh my gosh this weekend was so incredible thomas and i took a little road trip to one of our favorite towns in i was going to say in california but probably in this country and we went up to oh hi which it's just a special place to us it's it's like an hour and a half maybe northeast of l.A but we've been there a couple times and we're just obsessed it's so quaint it's so charming it was just good to get away from the city for a while and just just like bike around and go to the cute bookshops there and grab coffee and just chill.

And it was so wonderful that we, I hate to even say this because we are still in the midst of home renovations at the place we just bought in San Diego. But we've been looking into getting like a second little spot in Ohio, which will, I will say this. It will not happen anytime soon. It's like on our 10 year mark, like 10 year goal of getting a little spot. a little spot there that probably we would, I would assume, rent out on Airbnb and then just go there whenever we want to get away. Kind of like a, you know, like a late cabin in Minnesota,

what you would do when you need to get away in the summers. But yeah, it was so nice. We, like, we didn't really have a game plan. We just, like, wanted to wander and explore and do whatever. So it was, it was lovely. I will say, though, there was one damper of the weekend. And Thomas shed a few tears over the Padres losing the playoffs. Fortunately, we are not going to the World Series this year. So he was a little bummed out. But that's okay because, you know, if there's always next year, everyone. Aw.

Did he actually cry? Well, so when they lost their final game, he did come into the house and he just, like, face planted into the bed and would not move his head for like a good five minutes. And so I'm like trying to pull his face off to be like, Arthur, tears there, is it wet? But Thomas, like, is not really a crier. I've maybe seen him cry a handful of time. Like, not even a handful, maybe three times.

And one was over the passing of his dog, which I was a complete disaster too. So I totally understand that. But, like, he has cried over sports the other two times. And I'm like, seriously, dude, like, over sports, but hey, everyone has their thing. He's invested, you know? He is invested. So, yeah. It was overall a great weekend.

And let's get into what we are here for, really, the past two episodes that we saw before we bring Kate on. She was clearly part of some of the drama and a very big love triangle. So what were your overall thoughts this week? You know, I'm starting to really realize when I think it was the first time when we were at the tell all when, you know, the Paradise crew came on and kind of teased this season. season of like this is things that you've like not seen before. It gets really messy. I'm starting to like really like, oh, this is what they're talking about. And I felt so bad for Rick and Olu

though. Just like, I don't know. They came in and just. I definitely think they had something else in mind that they were hoping for for sure. And I've never met Olu. I do know Rick. He was on tour with me. And he's such a sweetheart. I feel like they got the short end of the stick in this regard. But again, it's kind of the name of the game where, you know, some people hit it off with certain men and vice versa. And if you don't feel it like, you know, it didn't make sense to necessarily. I mean, maybe if they would have been on the beach, they would have met other women. But who knows? There's always next year for those two if they're still single. So somebody else we have to talk about is Jill. She has had a big presence on this season so far. But obviously she now left the beach after finding out, Jacob wasn't totally feeling it with her. What were your thoughts on that goodbye and her leaving? I mean, I felt like Jacob handled it as best as somebody could. Like, it seemed like he ended it in a very respectful manner.

It's hard because it's like on the show breakups are going to be dramatic. It's like it's not going to come across like pleasant, right? And it's like you can only just like sometimes honesty hurts. So that was, I mean, there was a lot of heartbreak. for sure. I could see with Jill, but I also couldn't help the laugh when she was in like the doing her little interview on the way home in the car. And she's crying. She's like, I'm crying over a lift driver. I'm crying over somebody who sold their couch for cash. I was like, oh my God. I was like, don't throw him under the bus like that. He would be a lovely lift driver. I would have such a

good drive with him. I want to touch on Jacob really. quick because he was somebody that we talked about on Gabby and Rachel's season, especially, like the day that he left. Remember, he rubbed us the wrong way. And he said something very off putting to Gabby. And I called him out on the podcast about it. But I will say, Jacob is actually somebody who has pleasantly surprised me. I think he's entertaining. He seems to get along with most everyone on the beach so far. But I feel like he is somebody who actually, like, puts more thought into what he wants to say at this point. Like this second time around being on this platform where so many people are going to be watching him,

I think he's much more cognizant of like his conversations and how he comes across, which I really appreciate. I think he's grown since the last time we saw him on Gabby and Rachel's season. And like, I think I kind of like Jacob now. He has grown on me. And, you know, starting out, I wasn't too sure about him. I kind of wrote him off, but I think that the way that he's now kind of handling themselves with conflict during confrontation, like with the letdowns with Kate and

having to let Jill go, I think he handled it the best way possible and seemed very mature this entire week. Exactly. I would 100% agree that he, I'm changing with him. And it's been nice because it seems genuine. It doesn't seem like he's putting on a facade to be liked. it seems like he genuinely doesn't want to hurt people with his words and how he's communicating so he's changed. But what I will say is that there is one person who, we're sure, has a lot

to say about Jacob. And that is our guest today, Kate. Should we bring her off? I think so. We have so many burning questions for her. So let's just get into it with her. All right. Well, Kate, welcome to Happy Hour. This is your first time here because we didn't have you on during your time on Clayton season. welcome how are you doing after now filming two seasons um thank you guys so much for having me can i just say this is my dream girl chat like embodied in i love that here for it be able to be talking to you guys um but honestly i feel really good it's it's so funny to kind be here again especially like on the heels of clayton season which i realized just the other day was also airing this year and it feels like it's been 10 years you know since all that happened but

kind of put that in perspective is definitely like mind-boggling but I feel really good honestly good are you still working like in real estate did you go back once you like returned home is everything kind of back to normal except for like when you turn on the TV or maybe leave your house yeah when I get on the internet it's not normal anymore but um work is going really well I'm I'm definitely someone who, if I'm feeling anxious or stressed, I'll throw myself into my job. So, you know, for better or worse, that's definitely been something that I've been able to kind of lean on. So work is going really well.

Still selling real estate. Mark is still hot. So everything is good on the work front. If anyone needs a realtor in L.A., reach out to Kate. Yes, I got you. Kate, so I met you in person once, and this was a couple months ago during the, Bachelor Live on stage when we were actually in L.A. And at that point, you and Genevieve came out on stage. And we had talked about you potentially going on to Paradise. And I think at that point,

obviously, you didn't know if it was a for sure thing, but you were open to the idea. So now looking back, are you happy you said yes to that opportunity? I like view this whole experience as such a net positive. I was really hoping that I would be selected to go. down to the beach. I didn't want to get my hopes to to up, but that's honestly kind of impossible. So whenever we met, I was definitely trying to play it cool, but internally I was like screaming, you know, like I really want to go. I really hope this means that like, you know, I hope this is foreshadowing, like for a good thing for me that I'll be able to get down there. And I did. I know. Net positive. I love that. Look at that real estate academic language of vocabulary.

I love it. But so we are here to talk parenthood. So we are going to get into the details. And at this point on the show, you've been there for only two weeks, but like it seems like forever. It seems like you've already really made your mark. How did you feel at the beginning when you're walking into a group of guys who may have already formed relationships? What was going through your head at that point?

It did feel, I mean, even though it's been two weeks, it felt like I lived many lives in that time. So, you know, kind of being able to watch it back has done. definitely been a trip, but I was nervous, obviously, to go into a situation where I knew that connections had already been formed. And on top of that, like an added layer, connections were formed with girls who I was friends with and girls from Clayton's season. So, you know, there was a lot of kind of complicated, conflicting emotions behind it all. But I think, like, the underlying current was I just felt so fortunate and happy to be there.

and I was willing to kind of like lean in and get swept away by that current and just allow myself to like get the full experience. Walking in in the moment that you did, right? Because it was vastly different from just like walking down through the gates of paradise and meeting everyone. You walked in with five women. Did you have any idea that you were going to walk into this group of people who were already coupled up and have them did like, were you aware of this switcheroo? Were you just like, I'm just going to hang out with everyone on the beach? You had no idea what you were walking into that day. Yeah, it was completely clear to me. I was flying blind going down in that manner, but I'm honestly really grateful that I did.

I think being able to kind of maneuver that experience with four other girls who were also in the same boat as me, it felt like there was like almost a release of pressure because it's not just me storming down the stairs, like trying to, you know, homewreck somebody's relationship. But it's more like, you know, I have the other women to kind of lean on and to have a shared experience with. And so I felt still nervous, obviously, but kind of more empowered to be able to be going through that, like, with, you know, the other girls kind of by my side and us all having a shared experience. Had you known, like, who, you know, from, even from Clayton's season, like, the old girls,

and new girls, were you really close with any of them? Did you know which girls were going to be at Paradise? And once you got there and saw that, they're not, they're there, but they're not there. Like, what was your mentality? Did that change anything for you? So I definitely got way closer to the women of Clayton season than Clayton himself, obviously. And so we had all kind of kept in touch. And for the most part, I had a pretty good idea of who was going to be down there.

I think what threw me off was like seeing them. you know, sitting next to their respective men and like kind of like putting the pieces together of like, okay, like, you know, I see Genevieve and Aaron sitting there. And like you kind of see me go talk to him first because he felt like a safe space because it was like, okay, like I can ask him to kind of give me a lay of the land for, you know, everybody else's connection. But it was also interesting to see who had left, you know, who I thought was going to be there. And then it turns out they were gone, Sierra, Hunter, you know, like kind of peeling my eyes and seeing me more. here they're not oh my god what happened you know it's kind of a letdown when you go and you think

like all of your friends are going to be there and then they've already got the boot and you're just like damn i wanted to summer with y'all together yes um okay so you're like i would say the strongest immediate connection was with jacob and with him like what was it fresh out the gate was it more like the the physical side of things or did you and jacob happened to connect more emotionally and we just didn't get the chance to see that so i think what like made jacob stand out from the rest is that he pursued me he was very like on top of things you know quite literally but like he kind of made it known how he felt and he was taking action whereas i think a lot of the other guys were a bit more passive and we're just kind of sitting back and so he was kind of the first one

that really made a move on me. And so, you know, I felt like that was something that I could explore. But, you know, there's also still a lot of kind of conflicting, swirling, like, emotions. You know, things. We have to say, though, that the scene in the hot tub was so funny. No. Okay, so good. Did she really actually say the, like, Pledge of Allegiance?

First of all, that hot tub scene was so. humbling. I'm pretty sure like my granny and my ancestors all rolled over in their grades when that was happening. I literally like am traumatized from that, but I was so entertaining.

Yeah, that one was that was tough to watch. But like he's just such a, he has such a sweet disposition and is like such a positive guy and easy to kind of laugh with. like being around him wasn't something that like felt like it took a lot of work and so I

enjoyed kind of getting to know him in that way. Okay. So we're going to get into everything with Logan that happens eventually. But like that first day, the initial group of women leave. You're left with their men. Was there anyone that, well, this is a two part question. Was there anyone out of the group of men that were there that you really wanted to explore something with that just had something stronger with somebody else? And part two of that question is, is there anyone that you just like really wished would have been on the beach when you were down there that you really wanted to meet your number one guy? So I think first part of the question, when I got down there, I definitely didn't have my eye on Jacob at all. I was honestly

wondering where Michael A. was because he was on the date with Danielle. Oh, that's right. He was gone. Yeah. Yeah. Because I was like, wait, what about him? You know? And then I also, you know, when you kind of come across someone and you kind of feel that instant, like gravitational pull, you can't really explain it. It doesn't really make sense. Maybe that's chemistry. Maybe it's pheromones. Who knows? I felt that way towards Logan. Mm-hmm. Yeah. and just like talking and laughing and just being like wait what about this guy you know but things move so bad that it's like you know then sarah takes him on a date and i'm like oh no is that window

closed you know it is a jungle dang okay well we'll get into all that too okay i am super curious though so okay so well yeah we'll definitely get into your connection i can't even see it in your face right now still like she's just she's done just a little bit gravitational pull. Oh my God, we have so many things to ask. Gotta love that gravitational pull. Okay, so you and Jacob hit it off really, really quickly, and

you guys had fun together. It seemed like relaxing. It seemed like kind of, you know, like a safe space, but it also seemed like you were holding back a little bit. Like, are we hitting it on the mark? What was going on there? Yeah. I mean, holding back a little

bit is almost like like um what's the word like i was holding back a lot i felt um and the majority of that hesitation was my friendship with jill you know i feel like i talked a big game in my interviews and my ITMs and you know i was being sassy and funny but the reality is i was super conflicted and really in my head about her and about what that would mean for our friendship, how it would come across, you know, like I was kind of juggling this notion of like, you know, yes, I'm here on the beach and I want to pursue people who are pursuing me and I want to explore and I want to, you know, it feels good to be wanted and to be able to step into that space and enjoy, you know, that feeling. But then kind of the other side.

of that the shadow side is like I am you know I have a lot of respect for Jill and I feel a deep sense of loyalty to her as a friend so you know what does this mean for me and how does this translate for me and how do I move forward so I definitely spent a lot of time you know in my head about that and also talking to anybody who would listen about that as well do you think had Jill not been obviously she wasn't like physically in the picture at that point but if she wasn't in the picture and had some sort of initial relationship with Jacob, do you think there would have been any serious potential for the both of you long term? You know, it's hard to say because I think on the one hand, like, you know, that was kind of,

that permeated the whole experience with him was, you know, my friendship with her and how she would feel and what she would think. But I think, you know, trying to imagine her not involved in that, I still don't think Jacob and I would have made it, you know, through the long haul. I think he's a wonderful guy. I think we're in different places in our lives and that's no fault of his. He can't help where he's at, but I also can't help where I'm at. And I think, you know, I have different needs and, you know, different things that like I am kind of focusing on. And I think that ultimately we would have gone our separate ways.

Would it have lasted a little longer? Yeah, I think so. But, you know, it happened the way it happened. And I'm glad that it did. okay well so this goes down plot twist there's always a plot twist as even in a plot twist at this point it's just expected right yeah but we all thought that you and jacob were going to cruise in the next rose ceremony together but then you shoot your shot with logan and then your feelings were reciprocated were you surprised so i remember having that kind of initial magnetization moment with logan

and then, you know, things move so quickly and everything changes so fast that I thought, you know, that window might be closed because of the Sarah of it all, also because of the Chenet of it all. But I remember, you know, kind of like wanting to pivot away from Jacob, feeling more aligned with pursuing Logan. But I didn't know, you know, if that would be reciprocated if we were on the same page about that. I got a lot of encouragement from other people on the beach, you know, if you're feeling this way, you should talk to him. And so I just kind of like through a Hail Mary and like let him know how I felt. And it did, you know, again, it just felt so in alignment with who I am and what I want and it being reciprocated. It just like solidified for me that it was the right choice. And I was willing to,

you know, go through hell and high water in order to get there. So yeah. I have to say it was so entertaining watching like this scene unfold not only with like the two of you when you actually got that date card and asked Logan but like everyone's reactions like jaws were in the sand because nobody expected it and I feel like just to take viewers back in case they miss anything did it really kick off like you know we see Logan go on the date with Sarah the night before he gets home that night like did it kind of start that night a little bit where it's like that was the initial conversation of like, I still am kind of vibing with you. Let's see where this could go. Obviously, then trickles into the next day. But like that was the moment where you, as Michelle said,

like you shot your shot. And then he was kind of like, ah, I might still be open too. She's not in her head. Yes, everyone. So I think like, you know, in that moment, I was willing to risk it all because, you know, that's kind of what this whole container is about being able to drop into a space where like all you can do is fully be yourself and like go for what you want and like that you know that felt like the right move and so I think for him he wasn't as like forthcoming about that but I think it's because you know he has a friendship with Jacob he also had you know a lot of cooks in the kitchen so to speak he had Sarah and he had Cheney and so when I have that conversation with him. I made sure to mention like, look, I, I want to throw my hat in the ring, but it's already

really crowded in there. And I want you to kind of like figure out your feelings with the two of them before I, you know, make a move here because it's, you know, you have way more going on. And I also don't like want to like cause, you know, I don't want to throw the rock in the water and have the ripples affect so many people on this beach unless this is real. And this is serious. So like I told him to literally sleep on it. It was like the end of the night. And I'm like, I want you to go to bed and I want you to like figure this out and let's talk tomorrow morning. And when we did, it was just like, it was a full body. Yes. And I just loved it so much. I was like, wait, say this is so exciting. Like it felt way more like, you know, how I wanted it to feel instead of this just guilt and like,

you know, not shame, but just like a lot of like worry for Jill and how she was feeling like all that disappeared and so it just it felt like the right move is okay so when you're okay so you you guys had this conversation and it was Logan that said I'm not sure the time I'm a timeline of it but Logan said he was like I am not a person who goes on a lot of dates or wants to go on a lot of dates or something like that and then like my response I was like dude you you like sit in records with how many dates you've gone on that boy did not stop going on dates is but yeah so like when he said that what you like say what he did say is I'd rather go on one date and start something serious with some got it yeah okay so yeah I wanted to like you to clarify that if it was like because like for me

the way that I took it I was like okay like she hasn't been here like she doesn't you know what I mean like is he trying to like put on a face or is he trying to clarify like I've been on a lot of dates but I don't want that type of life connection yeah I think probably both you know I think he was definitely trying to put his best foot forward. I'm new here. I don't know what's transpired in the time before I got here. You know, all I know is what people are telling me. And so, like, I'm operating with the information that I'm being given. But I think he definitely wanted to put his best foot forward. I mean, you know, why wouldn't he? So I want to get into the date between you and Logan because it and just comparing, and I don't want to compare because you and Sarah are completely different,

But comparing how he was on the date the night before with Sarah versus the date with you, it looks like he was just so much more comfortable and at ease. And it seemed so fun. Like the date that you went on could have been completely awkward, right? Like if you didn't actually feel that connection and you both weren't like as spunky and free as you were, giving massages to each other could have been weird. But so painful. Like, yeah, awkward. Truly. But you both seemed so. into each other. Like I said, so at ease. What was the biggest difference, like for both of, well, not both of you, for you in both of the connections between Logan and Jacob at that point. Yeah. I mean, I remember Logan and I laughing later about that date and just being like, if that wasn't with you, that could have taken such a left turn and it would have been like cricket noise, you know, like so weird and awkward. But I just knew our sense of humors are so align. That's like one of my favorite things about him is that we have a very like similar like sense of humor and the way that we joke and like the nature of the jokes. Like it just all like felt

like super aligned with me. And so going on that date with him and just being able to be like, this could be so cringe, but we're just going to lean in and have so much fun. Like that really like solidified like my feelings for him because it was like, oh my gosh, like this is what I want. I have a partner. I want someone who's like going to be able to run with the joke. someone who's going to, like, be able to make me laugh and take situations that, like, could be cringe and turn them into something that's, like, kind of cute and funny. Like, I was really here for that. If that date would have been with Jacob, you know, I still think we would have laughed a lot.

It might have been, you know, a different, like, kind of heard. Pledge of allegiance while you give him the rundown. I have my tube tone, literally. The best part of that date for me was when you were, you were, like, trying to be El Coy. flirtatious and like you know I take tips in all kinds of currency and he goes crypto and I was like yes Logan that is exactly what she meant by just he's a ripper he builds on the joke that's like my favorite type of humor because that's the way that I am too so we we laugh a lot together did you guys talk about like on your date I mean obviously I'm sure you kind of knew new going in that he had

this relationship of some sorts with Chenay did you get into more of that on your date? We didn't talk about her. I think it was honestly us compartmentalizing a little bit, you know, like out of sight, out of mind. Let's just have fun on this day. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it. But I remember feeling really confident, like in our connection and being really sure that no matter what happened that we would weather the storm, we would be okay. I was so just curious for you. if so when typically like when you're having like those first impressions and you're like learning about somebody right like I don't know for me personally there's a fine line between like sometimes cute and then it's like you can get turned off in two seconds and they give you the ick and so hearing that he's been spending his time with Chenay when you come in you had some very um just clear still residual feelings of just about who she was as a person and everything when you heard that he It was kind of pursuing Cheney, were you like, what are you doing?

Like, did that turn you away at all? Or were you, like, challenge accepted? It raised some eyebrows for me, for sure. And it kind of felt like perhaps his judgment was questionable. Yeah. I think, you know, getting down there and hearing, you know, everybody talk about, like, oh, she's different. And Cheney's been really cool. And it's fine.

You know, there was a part of me that wanted to give him a little bit of grace. because, you know, maybe she is presenting a certain way and he's kind of resonating with that. But, I mean, I would be lying if I said that it didn't affect, you know, my initial view of him. And, you know, it was something that I kind of had to come to terms with and lose fast. Did it also bother you that or just so, okay, so you said that with Jacob, the one thing that you really liked is that he pursued you. And like that's something that was like really attractive to. you to like feel seen and all those things it seems like with your relationship with logan you definitely have taken the reins so like you are the one that are you know are um professing your

feelings for him first and then as this is starting to unravel and everything like you're initiating it or you know when this group of the original girls is about to walk back in we know shit's going to hit the fan you're i think you said um i love the way you said it you're like i'm i'm a life raft like you can't sink me and like I'll get us through this and one I was like oh my god I love that like I'm going to steal that and use that sometime like that that needs to be in some type of notebook movie that was great phenomenal phenomenal um five stars but did you feel like you were initiating it too much and you wanted more from Logan yes um and this becomes kind of a theme throughout and also a theme in my life you know paradise kind of can be

a mirror and almost a microcosm like of the world and your relationships and the way that you move through them I can end up taking that role and steering the ship and taking the reins and I don't love to be there all the time I enjoy being a passenger you know and being a DJ and like backseat driving all that jazz but you know what I mean like I I want I want partnership I don't want someone that I'm having to lead ideally I would like someone who's ahead of me but with this it was just like, you know, okay, I'm registering these things and you can probably tell. But at the end of the day, like, I'm willing to see how he shows up in these situations. I'm willing to see what he does when Chenet comes back.

Like, I'm, I'm clocking it for sure. Like, I'm like self-aware enough to understand that this can't be the dynamic forever, but is it okay for right now? Like, is it a means to an end? Can we grow from this? Because that's the other thing, too. It's like, you know, I'm going to meet you where. you're at but i don't want us to stay there like i want us to go i want us to yeah it definitely

seem like you have the like you had the emotional intelligence you know to be the leader in that situation anyways but i don't want that all the time and good call yeah i get it well and it seemed like as confident as you were with your connection after that date with logan like was there any part of you that was a little bit nervous knowing that she was about to come right back down and that logan would choose to continue to pursue things with her or to still kind of play the fence with both of you or were you just like so confident going into the moment when she returned?

I was obviously apprehensive about her like return to the beach for very like obvious reasons but never did I have a doubt that Logan would end up kind of like trying to play the both of us or juggle us or you know do anything other than full. choose me, I felt really, really confident that we would get through that and we would be fine,

but I still, you know, wasn't, like, excited about her to come back. Would you have given him? How much grace would you have given him? Because, like you said, you gave him grace before. Would you, if he, you know, wasn't necessarily making that direct cut, what do you, would you just have been like, okay, we're completely done? Such a good question. I think, I think it would have been really hard for me to continue to, like give him slack you know i felt like i was already kind of like meeting him where he was at and like this was his chance to kind of like show me that he was all in and serious and someone you know who because you're looking for a partner you're looking for someone who can you can build a life

with and so i think if he would have been wavering in that and if he would have you know acted conflicted or torn um i don't know how much more patience i would have had for that that would have been really difficult. But again, I kind of just, I just knew. Like, I don't know. It was like, my God, I just, like, knew that he was going to be able to have a conversation with her and cut ties and that we would be able to move forward. Isn't that such just a reassuring feeling to know, like, even if, like you said, you were apprehensive, even if there's, like, certain nerves underlying certain conversations that have to be had to still have confidence in your relationship and to know, like he's going to come back to you because you have the strongest connection.

Like there's something so reassuring in that, right? Yes. It was very empowering because, you know, it's so hard to predict literally anything that happens down there. But like in that moment, like if you feel the sure thing, like just relish in it even for a little bit because everything could change, you know, literally in three hours. But like for that moment, I just remember feeling so confident and empowered. Like this is how our relationship should be. We should have each other's backs through like the easy times, the hard times. Okay. So Cheney comes down. Logan has that conversation with you. Comes back to you. Let's get into that situation in itself because there's a lot that went down. Were you surprised by Chene's reaction to learning about you and Logan? And even like her reaction to the fact of you guys like sitting right by.

behind her. Like, did you choose to be right there? I know that there was probably a lot going on in that moment, but, like, in hindsight, do you wish she would have just, like, popped her on the corner? It definitely felt, and it's, like, it's, like, hard for me to remember, like, the semantics of, like, the situation. But I, I remember, like, feeling confident and feeling good that that leg of the situation had like happened already. It's just like there are so many hurdles. You know, I was glad that like he made it through that one and that we were okay. It was inconvenient that she was so close by.

And I think, you know, if I were her, I would probably feel like, you know, we were trying to rub her nose in it a little bit, but that wasn't my intention. Like that doesn't feel good for me to like glow in that way. Like, I felt happy and reassured in my connection with Logan, but, you know, it sucks to come back and, you know, something that you thought would be waiting for you or something that you had anticipated to be a certain way is not anymore. So, like, you know, I get that that's not ideal. But, you know, at the same time, like, I'm happy, you know. The situation in itself, like, yes, you're happy, but it is kind of tough. And it would be a tough pill for Cheney to swallow because she's sitting. over here distraught right like the guy that she was into chose somebody else but then you have this whole audience behind you too that is not only watching the conversation between her and logan but the conversation and the kiss between you and logan and counting down the moments to that kiss and

cheering as she's on the rock you know contemplating what do i do next time moment i was like this is like this show to a tea like just everyone in one picture cheering crying everything what drove you to then approach cheney after that to have that conversation with her like you know Logan had already talked to her a couple times but then you decided to take it upon yourself so what was that drive behind that which like the like what you mentioned like the show to a tea the duality of like everyone's experiences and how like on the one hand everyone's cheering so I remember that moment I remember hugging him and looking up at the point. pool and everybody's like staring down like you know like is it is it good did it happen i give him a

thumbs up they all start cheering that was like that i'll carry that moment with me forever i felt so celebrated and so just encouraged and reassured with everybody's reaction but at the same time like for cheney that sucks you know like that was probably like just kerosene to the fire that was already like kind of starting to take over for her so you know i get it but it's like having you know two those two truths can coexist and that's like so like paradise right yeah yeah there can be so many different things that are still true but it doesn't make them any harder or easier for anybody involved you know yeah and after that you know after that you get that in sure that reassurance and that um you know gratification and everything you is after feeling that

is that would kind of push you to go then check on cheney because you were like well I I'm going to have to coexist with this person, you know, and you did walk down there to intend to work things out potentially. Yeah. Can I explain how that went down? So I am certainly not a person who, like, runs into the arms of confrontation. It's actually something that I really struggle with and something that doesn't come natural to me at all.

But it was one of those things where I knew that we were going to have to coexist on the same beach together and I just wanted to squash it and let her know like hey I I know that that isn't easy to come down here and see that and I'm sorry that you had to but like I'm also not afraid of you and I'm not going to like let you push me around or like you know say things about me in your interviews that are hurtful so I think me approaching her I was coming from a place of like let's find an understanding but also like I'm not someone that you can um like try and break. So that conversation isn't something that like I normally would be comfortable doing, but I viewed it as a moment for growth and an opportunity to speak my mind

and like be able to advocate for myself and ask for what I need and name, you know, how I'm feeling. So, you know, it was tough, but I'm glad that I did it. Yeah. Well, in a normal world if like say the situation where it happened it's not like you'd be living with the person that you're now partner you state right like that just doesn't happen so i i kind of understand like the thought process behind it i don't think it panned out quite how you had hoped or expected obviously we don't really know where it win because we're left with the cliffhanger so we'll obviously have to find out i will say though i'm just like i think it's such a theme this season that people just keep kind of removing themselves and setting themselves home. So I, for one, was just shock when

Shane's like, no, I'm going to stick around and like try to find another relationship. I was just like, I'm so used to like, Teddy sent herself home. Jill just removed herself, lace removed herself, like all these women just keep going that I was just, I think, expecting that. But again, we'll find out next week. Okay, despite all of the craziness that happened, though, things are looking real good for you and Logan on that beach. We're excited to see where that leads because even like by your smile, I think, you know,

good things at least for a while, hopefully for beyond that. But we want to get your thoughts on everything that is going down on Paradise. So you were there the moment that Lace came back down to the beach to see if Rodney was there

and have a conversation. Were you shocked that she chose to leave that night? I think for lace and it's so funny because that was the only interaction I had with her from afar like watching her kind of unravel in front of the guys and asking where Rodney was and you know on the one hand like you can't help but feel for her that sucks like I think she didn't really give it the old college try during split week and so she was really like laser focused on making things work with Rodney but on the other side it's like Eliza I got to witness that connection form and

it looked so natural and effortless and everybody was really championing that and so like as you know the role of eliza's cheerleader like you know seeing lace come down and seeing her you know then self-eliminate was sad for her i think she probably felt a little pigeonholed and didn't know like it you know what where to go from there and so i think it might have just been easiest to remove herself she was probably really hurt but on the other side it was like oh my god yay eliza like we love to see this. Gosh, it's so hard. That's that duality

that you're talking about, too, just so many things going on at one time. And also, that was not the first time that Lace was heartbroken on the beach and this season with everything, you know. But with, okay, so Lace comes down. The OGs are still up there at this, well, in this conversation and in this question.

And then when Jill comes back, Jacob relays that info to her and she takes off. Did you have, like, you didn't get to say goodbye. You didn't, you know, all those different things. Have you spoken to her since? I am very confident in my friendship with Jill, even still. It was devastating for her to leave and me not to be able to have, like, any time on the beach with her.

Becca, it's like you said, like, you have it in your mind of like, I'm going to dream margarine with my friends. I'm going to get tan. I'm going to have this, like, fun, sharing. experience with these girls who mean so much to me and so to not even get to hug her or like say hi to her that was like one of the toughest moments for me for sure and just to see how sad she was yeah it really affected me oh i can't even imagine i can't even i mean like granted we've all done it when we were on the bachelor we all dated the same man but it's so different this time around when you have more time and space to explore multiple relationships and i can't even imagine like

at like on the beaches of paradise going after somebody that you're into that like one of your friends is into too it's got to be such a tough predicament it's like it it it's hard for me to even find the words to describe like how that feels because it is so different from bachelor because you do have such autonomy and agency to make these decisions for yourself so like it's on the one hand empowering but it's also like really stressful and like people's feeling things are involved. Yeah. Oof. I don't, I don't, I can't even imagine. I mean, like, I feel for anyone that has to go through that specific scenario on that beach. Okay, so right now on this beach, we do have a couple new formed relationships. And then we have, like, several relationships that

are very strong. And granted, you came down during the week where the split happened, but you also saw everyone reunite, like Brandon and Serene and Victoria and Johnny, even though that's like a little Rocky, are there any couples so far that we've seen that you're like truly hope go in the distance, truly hoping go the distance? Let me speak better English there. I cannot talk right now. I'm sorry. I remember during split week, like always talking to Brandon and being like, are you ready for your sweetie to get back because you know, Serene and I are friends from Clayton's season and like just seeing him light up. I and like seeing, you know, them come together and have that moment like I everybody was just like really really championing them to go the distance um who else

I thought that Aaron and Genevieve they're like the way that they reunite like is just so indicative of like you know who they are as people and I was really excited to kind of watch that one because he was he was another one that I like got really close with and just you know was able to be like you know how great is Genevieve like don't we love her so much like it was it was fun to kind of talk to the boys about how great the girls were and when they weren't around. Like that was, you know, that just felt so cool to be able to do that. I love the friendships that form. Me too. Honestly, the best. Do we even need boys? Like, can we have a girl? No. But even the friendships with the guys, like what you're saying, like you didn't just form

friendships with the girls on Clayton's season. Like, some of the guys on that beach now you will be friends with for a lifetime. It's wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. yeah it was fun to kind of like be able to bro out with them but also be able to just like be there emotionally and spiritually for the girls like I just I don't know across the board really really good time yeah I love well we know that there is still so much to come but Kate can you tease a little for the listeners about what to expect this season on bachelor in paradise what to expect this season on bachelor in paradise I think expect a lot of the unexpected like there are things that happened that felt so like just out of my comfort zone and I think

probably out of a lot of people's but it was moments where you know we got to really push our boundaries and do it in a space that was safe and that was fun and that was challenging but like deeply authentic and real um it's it's a lot of fun you know I I remember kind of being sad that it was going to be over before it was over you know it was like we all I have this conversation with Michael. I don't know if they show it or not. But just like the way that, you know, we're all coming together. We all are from different walks of life and have different stories.

And just for this moment, we all get to be in this shared space together and share these memories. Like, it brought me to tears. Like, it's there are a lot of tough moments, but there are a lot of like heartwarming real moments too. Yeah. So you're saying you're going to be around for a while. I like what you just said. Tune in. Tune in to find out.

damn everyone's so good you know how to give us just enough i will say like i i'm sure you felt moments on the beach where you're like this is dragging on it's never going to end like when can i just get back home to relax but then it also moves so damn fast and like it's gone in the blink of a nine you're going to be like i wish i was back on that beach so i'm i love when people can like everyone has such a different experience some people love paradise some people hate it but i like it's still such a unique special thing. So I love when people can actually realize that and appreciate it. Whether you had a great outcome or not the best outcome, it's still like so unique that not very many people get to experience. So with that, Kate, before we let you go,

we love to keep our listeners here on Happy Hour informed. And so lately in the past couple weeks, we've been sharing important resources that we love. We've been including them on our Instagram highlights so people can go and check them out very easily to access them. So we're going to have you share one, but first, Michelle, do you want to kick it off this week? Yeah, absolutely. So my resource is actually, it's a documentary this time. It's called the Black Feminist. I believe you can stream it on YouTube. There's a bunch of other sources as well, our platforms as well. But it basically just kind of goes into that double-edged sword of being feminist and being black in just how that oppression takes place over

different race and then also a gender. And so it's something that's super interesting, catches your attention right off the bat and really kind of focuses and zones in on specifically black women. So again, that one's called the black feminist. Awesome. Thank you. Rebecca? Yes. So this is a book that I read, oh man, about a year ago, but it Thomas just packed it when we went out of town this weekend. And it's a book called I Take My Coffee Black. It's by my dear friend Tyler Merritt. I highly recommend everyone checking out him on Instagram. He is such a joy of a human being. His book, it's all about him growing up in this multicultural community and realizing that in specific moments that he wasn't always welcome, but it's kind of about his experience

growing up as a black man. It is, it's such a great read because it's so insightful, but it's also hilarious at moments. It's gut-wrenching. It weaves in lessons about like white privilege and the history of racism that is still very prevalent in our country, in our society. So it's called I Take McCaffee Black by Tyler Merritt again. He's such a gem. And he also, I don't know when how recent, but he did also just come out with the children's book as well, which could be incredible for younger kids. So I definitely want to check out that kid's book and maybe give it to my niece as like a little late birthday present or early Christmas present. But yeah, I take my coffee black. I will link that on my Instagram as well. And now, Kate, you're up. So I actually

have two. The first one is a podcast that I will listen to every now and then called the Financial Feminist. And she'll have guests come on and just talk about what it is to be a woman in the workforce and, you know, how to ask for what you need and get a raise and whatever. This one in particular that kind of resonate with me is called unlearning self-sacrifice for women. The guest that she has is Tiffany Dufu, who has been an author. She was on the panel for Lean In. The latest book that she's written is called Dropping the Ball. And it's basically about like as women, you know, society tells us to be all these things,

a good wife, a good mom, a good employee. And like, you know, we juggle so much and we wear so many hats. And like it's about like, you know, kind of dismantling that we have to be like, these things and you know we can ask for help and just like the the kind of like gender roles and things that go with that so i found it really interesting um i think you guys would honestly really love it so if you haven't listened i think we should um definitely the second one i can't like fully endorse because i'm not done with it yet but so far so good it's a book i am listening to on my hot girl walks called pleasure activism and it's basically about um the author is adrian marie brown

She is a woman of color. She's also queer, and it's unpacking, like, how we can use pleasure in order to work through trauma and kind of, like, you know, how our society has been, like, viewing pleasure through, like, different lenses and how, like, you can find liberation in, like, learning how to feel good and how that's actually better for, like, your interpersonal relationships, your relationship with the climate. Like, everything can kind of be, like, filtered through that. And it's, like, it's pretty heady.

It's, like, you know, I think peace. but like it's something that I like am learning so much about already and I'm like a third of the way in. So if you, if you resonate with that, I would recommend. Awesome. What's the title of that one again? Pleasure activism. And she like sings in some parts of it. So I would recommend audiobook for sure. Okay. Oh, awesome. Wonderful. Well, thank you for doing your homework and sharing those too. We always, we always love to share those. So we will definitely, even if you want to send us those ones, or we can even dig them up and share them on our page too,

just so more people can access them so easily. But now the time has come. We have one last thing that you got to do, which we have all of our guests on Happy Hour due. And that is to share your Rose and Thorn of your Paradise Journey so far. So of these two weeks that you've been on the beach overall, what has been the best moment, your highlight, and what has been the messiest or worst moment?

that my rose so far would be just how present I was able to be like I'm someone who can live in my head a little bit and be anticipating the future and you know kind of like staring into the past and in an environment like paradise like you are just so focused on the present and so able to just drop in and be in the moment and that was so beautiful for me I really I felt like that I thrived in that, like, being able to just, like, live in the now because that's something that's so tough for me to do on the outside. So I think that that would be my rose. My thorn. I know I've talked about this at nauseam at this point, but just kind of the nature and the juxtaposition of, like, feeling so, like, powerful and being pursued and just, like,

stepping into a space of just being like, I'm going to go for what I want and feel so empowered and doing that mixed with like, you know, these are people's feelings on the other side of this. And these are my friends. And it just was like a really, it was a really tough thing for me to navigate. And I spent a lot of time like really, really worried about, you know, what Jill might think, what other people might think, what viewers might think. And maybe there's a bud in there for me of like why are other people's opinions like why am I placing so much of my worth and my value and what other people think about me so maybe I should explore that but I think that that would be my thorn just you know being in my head about all that stuff totally understand totally understand

it's definitely quite an experience and as much as it can be a fun experience there's a lot that comes with it even after you're done filming once you're watching everything back as well it's sometimes tougher than being there. Reliving it, you know. But thank you so much, Kate, for being here. It was so nice to talk to you and we cannot wait to see what's next for you

out on the speech. Yes. Thank you, Kate. It was so good to see you again. I can't wait to keep watching you and I'm so intrigued to see where your relationship with Logan might go. So thanks for popping on today. Oh my gosh. Thanks, guys. It was honestly a pleasure. I feel so lucky to be able

to chat with you guys. Oh, you're so so fun so please come back anytime yay okay we'll talk to you soon bye i like kate that was interesting no that was good she gave us a lot of really good insight i think yes and i'm glad we had her own because and michelle and i had talked about this a little bit before we started recording like i think parts of her viewers are going to love and then parts and things that she said on the episodes probably rubs people the wrong way but i'm glad we were able to have her on to explain a bit more. I think she's so confident and we're not always used to that confidence in women and I find it incredible. I wish I could be more like that

too, but I'm glad she was able to just give more of like the why behind her actions. I'm excited to see where it goes with her. Thank you, Kate, for joining us today. Michelle, I always love chatting with you. But a bigger thank you to all of our Happy Hour listeners. Don't forget to all of you listeners out there that you can catch all new episodes of Paradise every Monday and Tuesday on ABC or Hulu. And make sure to hit us up on social. You can follow us at Bachelor Happy Hour on Instagram. And from there, you'll find everything you need to know to follow us on Twitter and TikTok. And all new episodes of Happy Hour drop every Wednesday on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen

and you can always listen without ads by subscribing to Wondry Plus in the Apple Podcasts or the Wondry app. Thank you, Batch listeners, and we will see you next week. Cheers.

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