Bachelor Happy Hour - Kathy & Susan: Bachelor Nation News and Learning When to Walk Away in a Relationship | Golden Hour

Episode Date: May 28, 2026

Today on “Golden Hour,” we’re back with Kathy and Susan to dish out more advice. First, we’re getting into some Bachelor Nation news: Today, it’s all about weddings, babies, and more! What's the tea on Joey and Kelsey’s wedding? Tune in to find out! Then, Kathy fills us in on her dating life, dishing on a recent connection she needed to walk away from. Plus, we get into our “Golden Hotline” to give you guys some advice. From casual relationships to fearing vulnerability, we’re covering it all. Tune in now and be sure to subscribe! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Sending a spicy picture to your work chat instead of your significant other? That's so embarrassing. You know what's not? Debt? Consolidate your debt with a loan from FIG. No hassle, no judgment.

Borrow better with FIG. Visit fig.ca. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called,

Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk. David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriters, Streeter Seidel,

help an Acapella band with their between songs banter. There's the worst singer in the group? The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group.

The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard yard, but they're open. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. since you guys are middle-aged. One erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Humor me! I need some jokes to make me seem funny. For years, the Un-House has been presented as a monolith in mainstream media. Wheatian House is a podcast that's changing the narrative. I'm Theo Henderson, and I created the show why I was unhoused on the streets of Los Angeles.

We've grown into a two-time Webby Award-winning podcast, the only podcast that shares unhoused stories and news from the unhoused perspective. Listen to Weezy and House on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Your 20s can be so exciting, but they can also be really overwhelming, confusing, and honestly, just kind of loving. Only. May is Mental Health Awareness Month and the psychology of your 20s is breaking down the science behind the biggest roadblocks we face. I was six years into my career, the 80-hour weeks and just the first one in, the last one out, and I ended up burning out. There was a large chunk of my 20s that I was just so wanting to be out of that phase out of my skin. And I just like really regret not living in the present more. You don't need to have everything figured out right now.

You just need to understand yourself a little bit better. Listen to the Psychology of Your 20s on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to Golden Hour. I'm Kathy. And I'm Susan. Hey, Kathy. Hey. Can I just tell you, I love you, but I'm moving to London.

I couldn't do the weather or the food. So I'll visit, though. I do love the city. Oh, okay. Let me just tell you, this is not my first trip here. And I've seen, you know, the change. you know, the garden, all that stuff. But I love walking around and we've gone to all these great restaurants.

There's every kind of food in this city that you could possibly want. And it's really good. Kathy, we don't let you judge the food. Okay, I'm just saying I love you, but you are not in charge when it comes to food. Okay, well, as I told you earlier, I like it. It's very good. I had some of the best pizza I've ever had, by the way, the other night here. Okay.

But the men, you know, we are talking about dating on this podcast. I'm struggling, man. The clock, Big Ben's beginning to look really good to me. As you said. There are no single men. They're all, you know what my sister said when we're walking around? She said, you know why? We're not seeing any men our age.

And I said, why? She goes, because they're all home in rocking chairs. Oh, gosh. I know. It made me so sad. It's sad. But I do love London. I do. I actually really do love it. And I'm going to find me a guy on this side of the pond and I'm never coming back. Well, okay.

You'll miss it here. All right. There's no place like home. There's no place like home. You better have high tea while you're out there. Okay. Or just a cup. As I say, or a cup. All right. We got to get into this. There are so much. bachelor-ish news. It's not all about me being in London. It has been such a big week. Let's start with Becca Kufrin and Thomas Jacobs. They are planning out to have a third baby. They have

two boys and you know why? They really want a girl. Okay, what are your thoughts on this? Because I had two boys and then I had a girl. But what's your thought? I had a girl and then twin boys. So be careful. You may two may come out. Or you're going to have a third boy. Okay, here's what I want to say. This baby, their second boy, was only born a few weeks ago. Were you thinking about having a third child ever when your child was a few weeks old? Hell no. Yeah.

Okay. So, Becca and Thomas, I think you better see what it's like with two because with two, you each get a child. It's man-to-man defense. When you have three, you go to a zone defense. Let me tell you, family of five, they can't both sit next to mommy or daddy. When you get they get a little older, we had to get another room on vacation because it's not big enough. That's right. And I will tell you, when I, so when I had my daughter, I just assumed I was having another boy.

And I really wanted to go for fourth because I wanted another girl. I wanted another girl. Because I wanted another girl. and I couldn't trade in one of my sons because I already love them too much. So my husband said to me, if you guarantee me another girl, we'll go for it. Well, back in those days, you know, you couldn't spin eggs, sperm and all that. No guarantees even today. Yes, there is.

You can choose your sex. Yeah, but what are you going to do? You, I'm saying you. Well, whatever. So Thomas and Becca, congrats on the birth of your second son. and take a beat before jumping into number three. All right, what else we got? It's a girl.

Oh, this is big because we know and love our Joey. Grazadale and Kelsey Anderson, and they're reviewing wedding vendors. And more things are really rolling. Do you think, I mean, he did say, I remember and I quote, I want to be engaged for a long time. Yeah, several years.

And it's been a few years. Yeah. Here's my question. I don't know. I hope you and I get invited because we love them. And I'm sure because they're so beloved

by Bachelor Nation and the world at large at this point, I am sure that they're going to be gifted a lot for their wedding and lucky them. I hope so. But here's my question, Joey and Kelsey.

If you were paying for everything for your wedding, and we don't know that they aren't, but let's just play this game. for a minute. Okay. And mommy and daddy said to you, hey, Kelsey, Joey, we will give you the money for a down payment on a house or you can have the luxe wedding, you know, the day of your dreams. Susan, if they'd done that to you, what would you, which I was too young when I got married, I didn't know the difference. Well, that's the problem when you're young. But they're not young. The

wedding. Definitely the house. You would take the house. Yes. Yeah. I don't know. It's hard. Now, because I know better, but you can't, that's not fair to ask it. It's 69 years old, right?

Yeah. Yeah, well. But I love them both. We do. And I just want to say, back when you and I got married in the dark ages, we didn't have videographers and all this stuff. Yeah, we did. We did.

You didn't have a videographer? No. When did you get married? I mean. What year did you get married? What year? Eighty-four. Oh, honey, I had you beat by 10 years.

No, 11 years. And we did not have a videographer. But there is a wedding that we are invited to. Can we mention that? Who? Oh. I'm sorry, I thought you meant on this. On this.

Oh, yeah. No, we're going to Daisy's wedding because when I think of Joey, I think of Daisy as well. That's right. And let me tell you. She is going to be a bride of all. Oh, gosh. But we'll talk about her as her wedding comes up. All right.

Who's our next one here? Hannah Brown, who let me just say, I did not know Hannah Brown. I met her in Paradise. And I loved her. She is as wonderful as everyone thinks she is. She's funny. She's beautiful. And I have to say, her then, fiancé, now husband Adam, came to spend a few days in paradise.

I'm not kidding you. My mouth dropped. That man is so good looking. And I think they met on a website. website, you know, online. But none of all that. She's beautiful. But she's just gone through fertility. She's on a fertility journey. And I didn't know what this was, but she said she had a septum removed from her uterus. And I'm guessing that's something that blocks maybe egg implantation. I don't know. But she had such a great, she does have such a great attitude about her

fertility journey. And again, well, they did the surgery and hopefully that'll. Hopefully that'll do it. And I just, we all, I know I speak for both of us, we wish them a successful journey, hope that they can grow their family, hope this surgery is successful. Lots of prayers coming your way. And the casting for Bachelor 30. It's actually happening. God. I've seen so many ads. Listen, everybody listening, if you know someone, anybody can apply. Just go to bachelornation.com slash casting.

What do you have to lose? I don't know, but Susan, I want to propose right now that they cast you and me to go, I'm absolutely relentless here, that you and I get to go and give advice to these girls

who are going to do, would it not be great? Yes. I'm putting it out there in the universe. I think that should have been. But I'm so glad Bachelor's coming back, aren't you?

Remember we got to do. go sit on the couch and talk to those. That was so fun. But I am thrilled for the Bachelor franchise. I think that Bachelor's going to come back bigger and better than ever. It is. I can't wait.

Viewing Frankie Taylor. Taylor Frankie. Do you want to try that again? Spin it out, season. Very soon, I hope. Very soon. We hope. But I'm just saying I'm really glad that they're bringing back a Bachelor. I don't know who they're going to bring.

And I don't really care. because it's going to be great. Do you think it might be somebody from her show? Taylor's season? Yes. I think it could be. Why not? I've met, I mean, not met in person, but interviewed a few of them when I was doing a few episodes with charity.

They were good-looking men. Good guys. They seemed like they had their shit together. Yeah. I'm excited about it. Yay, Bachelor, we can't wait for that whole thing to happen. So like I said, if you're interested, bachelorination.com slash cast. Apply. We did, and look at what happened to us. You never know. Yeah, we're single.

Stop. Renno mishap? That's embarrassing. You know what's not embarrassing? Using FIG for Home Improvement loan. A quick, simple, and transparent offer in minutes. Borrow Better with FIG. Visit fig.ca. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jones. Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts.

Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down?

Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guide, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends, me and hilarious guests from Jim to Bob Odenkirk, to David Letterman, help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. There's the worst singer in the group? The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation.

The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard Yard. But they're open to change. suggestion. We're open. Since you guys are middle-aged, one erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart

Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Humor me! I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Mainstream media is full of cruel depictions of the unhoused, stories that shame and blame and paint the unhoused as a Wey in-house is the podcast that's changing that. I'm Theo Henderson, creator, and host, and for years I've created a space where the un-housed and their advocates can tell their own stories. In the last few months alone, I've interviewed unhouse parents, immigrants, mutual aid organizers,

veterans, the LGBTQTIA plus community, and the policymakers who make the laws that impact the unhoused existence. Weidian Houses a two-time Webby and Signal Award-winning show with many exciting guests on the horizon. Tune in this week for my interview with Dr. Gio Wichler, a street doctor turned influencer whose work with the unhoused community has made a huge impact online and in her community.

Listen to Weythian House on the IHard Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Keith Giamanka seemed like a mild-mannered suburban dad, but secretly, He became someone else, a master of disguise who went on a crime spree. At the time, did it seem like a crazy idea? It seemed very crazy. But I felt so desperate that I felt it was the quickest, easiest way out.

Did you allow yourself to think about how it could go wrong and what that might look like? No, I didn't want to manifest that. I was trying to manifest success. Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life? That is not the look of an innocent man. This is going to change my life and my family dynamic forever because everything that had existed prior in my reality is now untrue.

Listen to Deep Cover the Family Man on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Moving right along, now we're going to talk about knowing when to walk away. Oh, God. Today, our main topic is going to be about knowing when to walk away when dating. It's something that's hard to do, but when is the right time. Okay, so you know I got a story here. I recently ended something with a guide.

But before I go down that road, Susan, Nancy and I, about what, two months ago now, Susan? Yes, more, close to three. We were in Palm Springs doing a brand deal together, had a great time. And I had met this guy 10 days, I think, before we got there. And correct me if I'm wrong, Susan, but I said to you and Nancy, I don't know about this guy. You know, he's not, it's supposed to be the honeymoon period. I'm not hearing from him.

he's not texting. I think there might be an issue here. And what did you say to me? Give him a chance, Kathy. Both Susan and Nancy were in my grill about, you're so hard on men. I was like, no, I said I'm giving him a chance, but I just sensed that, you know,

he wasn't quite as attentive as a man should be. So here's what happened. He was great until he wasn't. And at first, you know, I sort of, he had some issues with a family, his family member that I won't go into. Well, let me ask you a couple questions about them before you give us the end. Okay. First of all, how did you meet? Well, my daughter would take issue with this, but we actually met.

Wait, I have to, I have to break in on the best news ever. So, you know, my birthday was May 9. Thank you all. So many of you reached out. Thank you. Yes. Speaking of my daughter, I have to say, do you remember when I told you she was put up for 40 under 40, women who are creating a change, making a big statement, doing something huge in Austin.

Well, Caitlin, my daughter, was one of the five finalists. It's going to make me cry. On my birthday, that night, they had the award ceremony, and she won. I know. It's excellent. She is the winner of. She, I mean, she is just amazing. Anyway, congratulations.

So how she'll take issue with it. While my daughter is perfect in every other way, you give her a drink of whatever, she gets a little silly and friendly and very happy. She's still in the dating site, Mom. Exactly. See, Susan knows my daughter. And so I said, no. Anyway, long story short, I went on the site, paid whatever the money was. And the next morning when I woke up and was sober, I called her and I said,

You owe me $49.99. Okay, Kathy. So what made him stand out to you? His profile, and I showed it to you, guys, when I tell you it was this guy on paper was made for me. I can't even tell you his interests, his everything about it, what he likes to do with this time, everything. We even both love to play Rummy Cube. I mean, come on. It's his favorite game. I know you went for long walks.

We went for long walks. He took me out for dinner. So how would he compare to other guys that you dated at that point in time? Oh, what did I tell you? When I met this guy, I was, I can't believe. And the way we met, he had wanted to go on match. And I was on a different website. And he, you know, he's a guy and guys don't pay attention. And he clicked the wrong button and it took him to the website I was on. He saw my picture right away. and wrote to me. And I only, here's the thing, I canceled the next morning after I was on the website, I canceled it. But lo and behold, you can't, you have a month. You paid for the month. You paid for the month. So I would go on, you know, like three or four times and check. And I had like two or three more days until the, you know, the subscription was canceled. And I went on and he had written to me. And I looked at him, first of all, he's dropped dead handsome, doesn't look his age at all. And then I read his profile and I was like this this has got to be somebody's jacking around and so he

he stood out yeah he really started he invited me for dinner and you know me I said on a first date why don't we split dinner he looked at me he said um you will never absolutely not and I thought oh the guy's chivalrous um he was just everything he was wonderful what was the first red flag he okay I love you Susan the first red flag was he didn't reach out and remember I told you I follow my own advice. I reached out to him and I said, hey, I'm on vacation. But you could say hello. You could say good morning.

You could say something. And he said, oh, I'm so sorry, I'll do better. And he did. And what was the hardest part? What? Hardest part of what? Of the relationship? That I didn't, that he didn't.

Once this thing happened with his family, he I started falling you know he couldn't focus on me and what if I said to you I love my children but I want a man who I can put first and he will put me first and it was very clear to me that this I think he couldn't stop talking about the issue right and you did communicate with him enough is enough I feel for you you helped him guide him like because you did something for a living that was involved with what he was talking about, but that's not the only thing I want to talk about. You've got to be able to separate the two. And I will tell you, when I got out of the hospital, he was traveling for a second. He didn't send me flowers. He didn't call. He, you know,

they're just, and I thought if this is what it is. And so what I said to him was. Because his mind was preoccupied with the issue. But what I said to him was, you are a great guy. And I really thought we had something special, but I see that you aren't in a place where you can focus on me. You're in a place. And I understand he has to focus on his family. But here's the thing. If that's going to be an ongoing thing that it's always going to be his family, he's a great guy, but he can't give me what I need. And that's when you know it's time to say you're a great guy, but goodbye. And I try to do it nicely a few times. Walking away is hard, like they say. It's very hard. The question is, how did you get the confidence to do so? Because you know better, right? I, what do you

like him? You genuinely. I genuinely liked him. You know what? I still maybe want to be his friend because, you know, he's, he's a fun guy. He's a great sense of humor. I can't even explain to you. but I can't I want to find the man who wants me and that is to say Well I think he did want you Kathy He just had an issue with an adult son

Right but he's been distanced from But it wasn't going to end Susan But it came right in the smack in the middle So how did you feel since you let it go? I feel badly I know I did the right thing And you know sometimes doing the right thing You don't always feel great about it

But I always have to take my own advice. The same advice I give to, you know, people that write in. Do you think maybe he was the right guy at the wrong time? So here's what I actually think. I think that if he could resolve this situation and move on from it and not let it preoccupy his life every time there's an upheaval, because let's face it, I have kids, you know, I've got kids. I've got kids. I have bitches with my kids. It happens. But I think that based on what I saw, he can't compartmentalize. He can't say, you know what, this is a bad time. He didn't even ever say, let me just get through this. And there was never, it was full time.

You couldn't even get a word in, right? He was constantly talking. You said enough. You know, you don't get to see each other. And he would call me and say, after I had pneumonia, you would say, how are you feeling? I would say, you know what? I'm tired. about him and he would launch right into what he was dealing with. And, you know, I think it's partially because he's such an intelligent man. You know, he's got a little bit of, you know, OCD, like he just couldn't let anything go. I get it. We care about our children. And maybe I sound selfish and maybe people are going to write in and say, you know, Kathy are a bitch you should have, but it didn't stop. It's what you could put up, what you can handle. Somebody else might have been able to handle that fine. Yes.

You know who you are. And let me ask you this. What's something that you learned from this that you'll take into the next? Like how could you, you weren't careful. We pushed. We said give him a break. Give him a chance just because you're busy. I didn't learn anything because I, if I'm being honest, I know myself really well.

And I, the things that I've learned that I wasn't great at in my marriage, I am much more of a compromiser now. I'm much more let him talk. I don't have to have the last word. So I didn't learn anything. I took my own advice in that I tried to be the person I am, which I did, and I tried to give him the freedom to show me who he is. And you know what? When someone shows you who they are, believe them the

first time. So I think if this whole episode resolves itself, I don't have any confidence, Susan, that if it rears its ugly head again, which it probably will, that I wouldn't be right back there again. And, you know, you and I've talked about this. Life is short. We want to travel. We want to have fun with someone. And we've put in years of raising our family. We've put in years of hard work. And now, so that's what I'm saying, right guy at the wrong time. Maybe, I think that's clear, but I don't, I'm not sure he can separate. Yeah.

I'm sure he can separate from. And he was very involved in his career still. Where you're. Yes, but that didn't bother me as much. I was willing to give him latitude on that because I think he had said that he hadn't, he said you might be the woman. But he said I hadn't met, he said he had not met the woman yet that made him want to give up his career because he didn't need the money. He was doing it because he's good at it. He's, you know, that's what he was doing.

Gave him purpose, yeah. Gave him purpose. But he said if I met the right person and you might be she or you might be her. I'm not sure on that pronoun. Anyway, he said, I could walk away from this tomorrow. So I wasn't asking for that. But I don't think he could the way you describe him. I don't know.

But what I saw with the family issue. So it's hard. But I think the final straw kind of. was, there was nothing. There was, there wasn't, you know, if he had sent. You knew. You knew. You made up your mind.

I knew. If he had sent me a grocery store flowers and said, you know what? I am so up to my ears and this, but I'm thinking of you. I want to be with you. Just give me another couple of weeks. I didn't get any of that. No, nothing. So I feel good.

We move on. And I'm in London. So, you know, Big Ben's looking better all the time. Oh, Lord. Okay, so you know what? And I will tell you, Susan, if he reaches out, I will, I will meet with him. Yeah, of course. He's a great guy, but I just not sure he can give me what I need. And at this stage of my life, when you, when it's not the right thing, we always tell people, you have to be able to walk. You're, it's the man he is. Sometimes men are who they are, and you can't create them to be what you want. Because that's, we can't change them, period. That's something we should know. All right, well, let's get in. Every week, you know, Susan, we love our answering our listening to questions.

I know. You're ready. You're ready. And we're ready to give some golden advice. Sending a spicy picture to your work chat instead of your significant other? That's so embarrassing. You know what's not? Debt? Consolidate your debt with a loan from FIG.

No hassle, no judgment. Borrow better with FIG. Visit fig.ca. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? huge news. We created our own podcast called

Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about

what we should call it. And, well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this.

We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, Hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title

for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guide, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter. There's the worst singer in the group.

The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard Yard, but they're open.

Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle-aged, one erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Huber me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Mainstream media is full of cruel depictions of the unhoused, stories that shame and blame and paint the unhoused as a monolith.

We The In-House is the podcast that's changing that. I'm Theo Henderson, creator and host, and for years I've created a space where the un-housed and their advocates can tell their own stories. In the last few months alone, I've interviewed Un-Houced parents, immigrants, mutual aid organizers, veterans, veterans, the LGBTQTIA Plus community, and the policymakers who make the laws that impact the unhoused existence.

Whedian Houses a two-time Webby and Signal Award-winning show with many exciting guests on the horizon. Tune in this week for my interview with Dr. Gio Wichor, a street doctor turned influencer whose work with the unhoused community has made a huge impact online and in her community. Listen to Weythian Housed on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance.

And then there's your body having its own program. I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. We share stories and scientific insights to help us all better navigate these periods of turbulence and transformation. There is one finding that is consistent, and that is that our resilience rests on our relationships. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcasts. Here we go. This one comes to. from Pandora in Cincinnati. Oh, I love that. Okay. I feel like I'm always the one who ends up getting more emotionally invested first, and it makes me feel vulnerable and a little out of control. I don't want to play games, but I also don't want to keep getting hurt. How do you protect your heart while still being open to love? Oh, Susan, you answer that one. Go ahead. Oh, baby, we're twins. I'm telling you, you know what, you can't change who you are. Like, You're open and you emotionally invest. I do the same identical thing and I still do it today.

So don't try to change who you are. I didn't necessarily get hurt because most of the time it was me choosing. But don't, why are you getting hurt? I want to know, first of all. Can I tell you what I think? I've just been learning this. I've been learning about different attachments. I'm going to guess, and you're going to last.

I'm guessing he is an avoidant attachment style, which means he can't, he avoids commitment. And I'm guessing she is the anxious attachment style, which means she meets a guy and she's automatically in love. And she's, you love me, don't you? You want to be with me, don't you? Oh, God. I would never say that. Not you.

I didn't say you. I know, but no, no. I think she said vulnerable a little out of control. Maybe you're right. Yeah. But she said, I don't want to play games. Yeah. So I'm not playing games, Joe.

I'm really interested in you. Are you interested in me? Can we put a label on this? That is an anxiety attachment, somebody who wants. And I'm guessing. So here's the thing, Pandora. Be who you are. But you know what?

Relax. But she's asking us, how do you protect your heart while still being open? Didn't I say that to you? Not too long ago. How do you protect your heart? Either you're in or you're not. You would like them or you do? joke. Once you like somebody, my heart's involved, right?

So how do you protect it? Well, I think in her case, I think in Pandora's case, Susan, she's rushing to get him to commit, right? And so she's already, she's already written the story. They're already in love. She's in love. We're together. We're a couple. So she makes herself too vulnerable and it's probably not always based in reality. I'm not a therapist here, by the way. just been doing a lot of reading on it on attachment theories. So I'm guessing her heart, she she jumps in too deeply and wants a commitment and then my heart's broken because I thought we had this. No. But they didn't have it. She just made it up in her. And Pandora, I wish I had the answer how to protect your heart, but people do. They don't let themselves get too involved

until they're sure where I can't control that. You. You must be a Pisces. Well, I would say to you, Pandora, try to slow it down. Give any guy you're dating. Don't try to put a label on it too soon. Don't try to rope him into commitment. Just enjoy the moment. Get to know each other.

And you know what? Your heart can still be open to love, but you're not at the altar a week after you've met him. That would be my advice. Okay. The next one is from Danielle. And she's from Scottsdale. I've been seeing someone who checks all the boxes, but I don't feel that intense spark that everybody talks about. It's more of a calm, steady feeling. Part of me thinks that's actually

healthier, but another part of me worries I'm settling. How do you tell the difference between a slow burn and a lack of chemistry? Wow. I think that is, in my mind, is one of the best questions we've ever had. It's a very good question. It's a great question. It's a great, question. What do you think? I think my brain has one answer and my emotions have the other answer. Okay? So my brain is telling me slow burn is the way to go. I am all about that chemistry and you're not physically attracted at first. But if you get to know somebody, there's so many people that I have met over the years that I wasn't attracted to, but they were wonderful people that I think. think about, wow, what would life have been like?

He's such a good man. Yeah. You know, that, how about you? Well, I think, Danielle, you said it's a calm, steady. You didn't say, you said you don't feel the intense spark. But where I didn't hear you say, you're not feeling any spark, which is a whole different deal. Yeah. Right.

So the chemistry, you know, maybe you don't feel like jumping into bed with him on the first date. That's not to say that you're not attracted. to him. He checked all the boxes, I think, I think, and I will also say, Danielle, it depends on your age, right? I think, I think there is, when you're young, you just want that immediate, you know, that fireworks kind of thing. But I think, from where I set, like the guy we were talking about earlier, oh, I had immediate chemistry with him. But I was able to kind of, kind of, of sit back and say look at the whole picture and check all. And so I think you don't have to have this crazy spark. If you're attracted to him and you like what you see, see what it grows into.

Everyone's in such a rush. I think this actually what she's asking is the slow burn is the one that lasts long. That could be the forever. Yeah, I do. I do. So don't worry about the chemistry. Well, I think there needs to be some chemistry, but I think Danielle go down the road. He'd be grossed by him. He checked every box. It's a slow burn. She likes him. Danielle, stay.

Win you over. Right. Give them time. Give them time. Give them time. Give yourself time, you know. And Danielle, let us know how it goes. Yeah.

And if you're my age and you decide you don't want them, send him my way. All right. Do another one. All right. This is from Carla, from Dallas, right. the hill for me in Austin. Okay, Carlos says, I'm in a relationship where things are mostly good, but there are small issues that keep coming up. Communication styles, how we handle conflict, things like that. None of it feels big enough to walk away over, but it also doesn't feel like

it's improving. How do you know if these are normal growing pains or signs of deeper incompatibility? Can I just take a first stab at this? Can I just take a first stab at this? Go right ahead. My advice, and you're going to laugh, but I'm not kidding, if you are feeling uncomfortable about this and you're feeling that things are mostly good, some issues, I would have a talk with your guy and I would get into professional counseling.

And I'll tell you why. You're going to find out, right now you're throwing a dart, she's saying, and Carla's saying, you know, I don't know, is it normal? Is it a deep incompatibility? the way you find out is by going to someone who is trained to dig this out of both of you. And then you'll find out that's what I would do. What do you think, Susie?

Well, I do like that idea if he's up for it. But his communication style, just know he's never going to change. He is who he is. But how we handle conflict, that's sticking in my crawl. I'm not liking that part. what do you mean by conflict? Does he explode? Does he have an anger thing? Is that the problem? Is that the communication style that you're referring to? I'm guessing because if it is and you're holding it in, you're going to end up resenting him. But if he's worth it, then maybe, like Kathy said,

go get, seek some. You can be taught things, especially when you want a relationship to survive. You learn how to communicate a little bit. Okay. So you're saying, you're saying, two things because first you said, I agree with the second statement, you can learn. It takes work. You can't change a person. Yes, you can. Yes, he can change his communication style. He can change how he handles conflict. Absolutely. And the way you change is learning a more effective style of communication. And that comes through counseling, right? That's right. And I don't think, I think it's very difficult when, you know, for two people to sit there and figure it out themselves because if it were easy, right, you would just go and do it.

So I would encourage you, Carla, to get in some counseling with your guy and see if you can't figure out, are you incompatible? Or do you just guys need a little bit of tweaking on communication style and how to deal with conflict and anger and all those things? Because they can ruin a relationship, right? Carla, you say, how do you know if these are normal growing pains? That statement right there, that's not normal growing pains. If it's something that's not making you happy and making you uncomfortable, that is a problem. And you should nip it in the butt now. Because how many people, Susan, have we talked about who just zip it and they don't say anything and they don't turn the and then the resentment grows? So, Carla, take the bull by the horns now, get your guy. And you

and get some counseling. And then let us know because we are rooting for you. We hope this is the great relationship you want and we hope you are compatible. So let us know. Okay. All right. And those of you who love us and love us answering your questions, you can submit your questions to us by going to bachelornation.com slash golden hour. Come back each week. You never know. We may answer your question. We love hearing your comments, your thoughts. So please submit. midway. And we'll give you our opinion. Like we said, okay, the Kathy and I are back with the gals Google it where we break down these new slang words that people are using in dating and pop culture. And sometimes Kathy and I don't even know what the hell's going on. Okay. I'm going to be

honest with you. This first one, I had no earthly idea. Okay. It's Dululu dating. Okay. And I'm delulu. And so I looked it up. It's full. romanticizing the situation that is very not real. He liked my story, so we're basically engaged. Kind of like that girl, the question we just answered, like that is delusional. They're in life. It's called dreaming. It's called delulu dating because you are delusional if you met the guy a week ago. And I think we're engaged. That's, okay. Have you ever experienced? I don't think Kathy has ever experienced that in her dating life. Absolutely not. You dissect it.

Now you investigate, you dissect me. I see the white picket fence around the house. Are you kidding? Okay, so you're right. I have not experienced it in my own dating, although I will say with this guy, I came the closest to, you know, jumping in. How would you keep yourself from doing it?

Because I'm Kathy, and that's what I don't do it. This is the wrong person to ask. And what do you think causes this? You know what I think cause it? I think, and I'm not saying, you do do this, you do jump in, but you're older, you're 16, I know what you're doing, you know the risks. I think a lot of young people, I hate saying this, I'm going to take heed for it. I think a lot of young women are desperate. They want to find a guide. They want children. They want a home. They want to be grown up. It's your dream. It's not even desperate. It's your dream.

you know what? It's like, it's like, you want it so bad. That's what causes. But you know what? That isn't how I raised my daughter. I raised my daughter to be strong, you know, self-confident. And that's, I feel sad when I talk to some of these young girls. And I've met a few actually, my niece's friends. And they're like, you know, I just want to find the guy. And I said to them to stop being desperate. Go out. What I think causes it is. just wanting it so bad that you dream. That's desperation, Susan. Yeah, you just wanted to come true. And you know what my advice was?

Wait, I have to tell you, the advice I always give to these girls, these sweetie little pies in London with their cute accents. I said, first of all, I said, come to Austin because the guys will fall over your accent. You'll have dates in a minute. But what I said to them is, you know what? Start doing things that you like. Activities, the right people will come into your life. And you won't, hopefully you won't feel this.

desperation of finding a guy, you'll enjoy the process, the journey, the adventure of finding your soulmate. Be okay with your stuff, yeah. Yeah. All right, go on with the next one. The next word is, zombieing. Someone who ghost at you comes back from dead, sometimes acting like nothing ever happens. All right, hold on. Has someone done this to you, Susan?

Men always come back, Kathy. They'll always come back. You know what? I actually, I didn't tell you this either. On my birthday this week, I had a, if I'm lying I'm dying, I had a guy, the first guy I dated after my husband died, swear to God. Last on the past.

He reached out to me. He was a guy I said, Sionara, too. He reached out to me and he said to me, how are you doing? I'm living in Ukraine. I was like, what? So, I mean, this is somebody that ghosted me. I mean, he never ghosted me. I mean, I've never had it.

I don't know that anybody's, no, maybe they have. And I look them right in the eye and say, are you serious right now? You ghost at me and now you want to be my friend? Why? And then what happens? What do they answer? Bye-bye. I don't really give them the right time. Do you think men always come back? I don't think so. Not always. Well, I mean, I've had a few guys come back to me. Do you give a second or third chance? Hell no. After being ghosted, no. No, no, no, no. Why do you think some people allow them back in? Why?

Once again, that desperate word, because they're hoping maybe, maybe he is the one because they're not satisfied with themselves. You've got to love yourself and be okay on your. before you can let anybody else in. You can't depend on somebody else for your happiness. You know what I think? I mean, it helps, but. You know what I think some women think? Well, and this goes both ways, by the way. I mean, I think when a guy comes back who goes to the woman,

she thinks he's come to his senses. He realizes what a catch I am. No, he lost the other one. I think when a woman. think when a woman comes back, he's saying it. We'll get it out. Because our time's almost up here. Okay, the land is not fertile. You know, there's not enough. She's hoping. She's, she's recycling. You know, she's going to her. Same as a man, Kat. That's the same as the men. But you know, especially with the dating apps like what they have now, the grass is always greener on the other side,

right? Until you're out there and you realize, oh, maybe she was. Yeah. Okay. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe I should revisit that. Yeah. Do you think it ever works out? I don't know. I can't answer that. Why is all this dating stuff so hard? I'm the fairy tale dreamer.

I just hope it does. Yeah, well, I'm sticking with Big Ben. He doesn't talk back. He just tells me the accurate time. All right. Well, this has been, I love chatting with you. We always have such interesting conversations. You know what, scary, Susan?

Will you use the word the Lulu date or zombie? I'm going to start. But if I hear somebody say it, I'm going to know what it means. That's right. But wait, is it scared to you that you and are starting to agree more? I'm so glad that you have finally realized that you should be on my side of the fence. Oh, and moving right along. Thank you so much for joining us today for Bachelor Golden Hour.

And make sure to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. And you can follow Golden Hour on social. social media at Bachelor Happy Hour and at Bachelor Nation. And until next time. Absolutely. We'll be back. We promise. Hey guys, it's us.

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We just contributed to us. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired. and sick, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late night comedy guide, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an Acapella band with their between songs banter.

There's the worst singer in the group. The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right?

That's the name. The Harvard yard, but they're open. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle-aged. One erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Human be! I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance.

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Listen to Weezy and House on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life? That is not the look of an innocent man. Is everyone lying to me about who they are? I felt such desperation. I felt it was what I had to do. Listen to Deep Cover the Family Man

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