Bachelor Happy Hour - Kathy & Susan on Exit Plans and Sex for the First Time | Golden Hour

Episode Date: December 5, 2025

Today we’re answering some of our most-asked questions! We kick things off with all things relationships: How do you know if marriage is actually right for you? When is the best time to have sex with a new connection? The answers might surprise you! Then, we dive into major transitions and learning to adapt. What is it like going from a parent to a new grandparent? How do you manage integrating families when you find love in your Golden years? Tune in now to hear us tackle all this and so much more, and be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. I know he has a reputation, but it's going to catch up to him. Gabe Ortiz is a cop. His brother Larry, a mystery Gabe didn't want to solve until it was too late. He was the head of this gang. You're going to push that line for the cause. Took us under his wing and showed us the game, as they call it.

When Larry's killed, Gabe must untangle a dangerous past, one that could destroy everything he thought he knew. Listen to the brothers Ortiz. the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone. It's me, Katie Couric. Did you know that I recently joined Substack? Very exciting. It's where I'll be sharing my unfiltered conversations with the people everyone's talking about. I'll also tell you what I'm reading, what I'm watching, what's making me crazy, and what's giving me hope. If you like deep dives, hot takes, and real talk,

you're in the right place. Search Katie Couric on Substack and hit subscribe. I'll be there reporting live, most likely, in my pajamas. See you there. I knew it was a bomb the second that it exploded. I felt it ripped through me. In season two of Rip Current, we ask, who tried to kill Judy Berry? And why? They were climbing trees and they were sabotaging logging equipment in the woods. She received death threats before the bombing. She received more threats after the bombing. I think that this is a deliberate attempt to sabotage our movement. Episodes of Rip Current season two are a very very important. We're a very Now. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

From NBA champion, Stefan Curry, comes Shot Ready, a powerful never-before-seen look at the mindset that changed the game. I fell in love with the grind. You have to find joy in the work you do when no one else is around. Success is not an accident. I'm passing the ball to you. Let's go. Steph Curry redefined basketball. Now he's rewrecked. writing what it means to succeed. Order your copy of the New York Times bestseller shot ready today at Stefan Currybook.com. I'm Robert Smith, and this is Jacob Goldstein, and we used to host a show called Planet Money.

And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History about the best ideas and people and businesses in history. And some of the worst people, horrible ideas, and destructive companies in the history of business. First episode, How Southwest Airlines Use Cheap Seats and Free Whiskey to Fight a its way into the airline is. The most Texas story ever. Listen to business history on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to Bachelor Happy Hour's Golden Hour. Thanks so much for joining us again. Kathy and I are so excited to be back. How are you today, Kath? Well, I'm okay except, you know, I

sprained my back because I like to decorate for Christmas early so I was lugging the tree and so you know I need some pain meds not on it yet but I'm getting them I too like to put my trees up yeah because it feels so rushed afterwards and then between traveling a little bit because I'm excited about what's coming up for me in Las Vegas I have to have everything done before I go I think I actually gave you the idea to get that tree I'm sorry oh no I've had a tree in my garage every year. I haven't put it up for the last few years because I've been out of town, but this year I'm going to be home. And I thought, you know, why not get it done early? So that's how I sprained my back. But I actually love, if I'm going to put Christmas decorations,

you know, I know people complain about get through Thanksgiving first, but you show me where that's written anywhere in the Torah, in the Bible, anywhere. There's no rule that says you cannot put a Christmas tree up before Thanksgiving. I like it up on Thanksgiving. And Thanksgiving happens to be one of my favorite holidays because the tree is up. It does feel festive, but there's no gift exchange and chaos. It's just being with family or friends and saying something that you're grateful for. I make everybody go around the table.

We do that. We say grace and say something you're thankful for. And so many years the kids are like, Mom. I'm thankful for my mom cooking, you know. It's okay. You know what? As long as you're thankful and grateful for something, that's what this season is all about as far as I'm concerned. So you know what?

If they're grateful they got to sleep in an extra 10 minutes, go kids. You go for it. 10 minutes is 10 minutes. So, okay, so we also, we know that people that listen to us in Bachelor Nation, you and I do a lot of coffee talks, especially when we're traveling. And we love doing that because we just put on. bathrubs, whether we're in a hotel, at your house, my house. We put on bathrooms, we pour coffee, although one time we did get caught with empty cups, so we've never pulled that one again.

We put coffee or hot tea in those cups, and we just sit and talk about... Anything and everything. And people think that we stage, that we run the camera and then edit, we don't. Have you seen my hair in these coffee talks? I mean, it's pretty obvious that I just rolled over and put the robe on. But I mean, I mean, in terms of what we talk about, it's just you say something, it rolls off. So, you know, we love that and we're glad that we entertain you guys and we hope that we give you some good advice.

Yeah, absolutely. And we're going to do one right here. All right. I'm going to have my hair crazy and my robe on because we don't get to see each other that much. But although we make it a point. Like, we can't go that long without. visiting. That's where I'm giving things for this year. My family and my friends get me through

another year. Absolutely. And, you know, how lucky are we to have such good friendships. And we're blessed. We're really blessed. All right, then. So, do you want to get started? Okay. Let's do it. Since this is a podcast, all about advice, we're going to answer some of our most asked questions, starting with dating and relationships. All right, Kathy, do you want to read the first one for us? All right, here we go. how do you know oh boy how do you know if marriage is right for you now i could let me just say i could start out with a joke saying as soon as i find the guy i'll let you know if marriage is right but i'm going to defer to you go ahead that always helps when you do have the guy that

how do you know if marriage is right for you i'm guessing the second time around we're talking second time around here right okay i don't know are we i mean yes you and i are so we have to be right okay go ahead how do you know if it's right for you it's a feeling i guess it's something that you have to know that's a tough question because now today that i'm 68 i'm still 68 for a few more months people i don't know if marriage is that like signing the paper is that important as i prefer to just have somebody in my life when you get married in your goal golden years. There's a lot of red tape that's going to happen, whether it's pre-nups or, you know, what do you think? Well, I think that, again, I'm not in the position to have to consider it.

But one thing I've learned in my golden years is to never say never. So I would never say that I will never, how many nevers can I say, get married again. But I do think at our age, we're not raising children, we're not having children, we're not starting careers. And I think those are things that when you're married younger, those are all things you consider, where you're going to live, although you do that in your golden years too, but what careers you're going to have, who's going to manage the kids, how are you going to handle your, all those things, finances, where when you're in your golden years, to me it's more of a conscious decision. I personally don't think you know if marriage is right for you as a golden. I think it's a conscious decision. You decide or

I would decide. You know what? I want to spend the rest of my days with this person. I want him to be integrated fully into my life. And in my mind, that would include marriage. I'm not sure. What about like a commitment ceremony, just committing to one another? So I think at our age, That's a very reasonable, a really reasonable idea. Why not just commit to each other? I think I'm a little old-fashioned here, Susan, and I know I'm going to take heat for this too. I think it's so easy if you don't have a legal marriage to say,

you know what, and the horse you rode in on. In other words, departing. Yes. I think it's very easy to toss in the towel when you just have a commitment ceremony. I think marriage makes you think a little bit more about whether you want. Marriage being a legal marriage, signing a paper. Because I do believe that once you're married, you're going to think a little

more about do I want to stay in this or get out of this. Now, hopefully on the second time around, we both have learned. I mean, you're divorced. I'm a widow, But I would think that we would know what it would take for the man to be the man that we would commit marriage to. I mean, I don't know. Right now, I don't think I would do it. I understand what you're saying is it's easier to pack your things and leave because there's no legal binding. However, divorce is so easy today, too, when you're both in the same place. It's like boom, boom, you sign papers.

It is a little bit more than just pack a bag. We have some amount of wealth, some amount of resources, property, real property, homes, I mean, at least hopefully one home. All those things that we've amassed, or hopefully amassed in our lifetime, I think that those things, unless you do a pre-up, and then you get into a lot of legal stuff. That's my point. So I don't know. And living with someone and committing to somebody and living in the same.

house you got to decide which one that's going to be are you buying a new one together right that's a whole other entity in this if you will right right and walking away is meaning you're going to have to go find a place to live so either way it's a i just think i think it's a wait why are we talking about ending it before we're talking about the exit we didn't even get in yet well that's right because because we are of an age susan that we know if we get into that we're talking about we get into something, we need to have a strategic exit. Really? That's why we're smarter. We know that things happen. If you were about to go in with somebody, you're already going to pre-think that how you're going to get out. No, no, I'm saying before I commit to marriage, I'm going to understand that things can go south

sometimes. And if it did, this is what will happen. Right. And younger people, when they get married, I don't think they think that part down the road. They shouldn't think that way. They shouldn't. Right. It really should. Okay. So now, before we get married, what about having sex. Yes. When is it appropriate to have sex for the first time with someone you are seeing? I feel like Kathy and I might be on the opposite ends of the spectrum here. But you know, you asked the first question. I asked this one. You go first. You know what? That's what I was just going to say. You jumped in there. I was trying to jump in and ask the question so you'd have to answer. I noticed. Okay. When, you know what? I don't think at our age there is an appropriate

or inappropriate time to have sex for the first time. I think that is a very personal decision about when you might have sex for the first time. I, you know, if anyone's interested, I will not have sex on the first date. If it's a weekend date, I'm not having sex at first weekend date. I got to feel, my rule of thumb always is I'm only having sex with a man that I'm either in a relationship with or one I'm pretty sure I'm going to be into there's a strong potential to be in a relationship absolutely what about you and I've read all the books you're supposed to wait I think it was the fifth date or something you have to date five times you know what

it is a personal thing some women just like to have sex for me personally I happen to agree with you it's somebody that there's a potential relationship starting And I have a conversation first. You know what I'm saying? Like where you're at or where I'm at in this before we sleep together? Because once you do, it changes everything for me. Well, for women it does, I think. Yeah. Although maybe so less so at our age.

But now I'm going to go, you know me. I'm going to dig a little deeper here, Susan. Hey, everyone. It's me, Katie Couric. Did you know that I recently joined Substack? It's where I'll be sharing my unfiltered conversations with the people. people everyone's talking about. Journalists breaking news, politicians making it, actors we can't stop watching, experts, and a few unexpected voices who just might change the way you see the

world. I'll also share what I'm reading, what I'm watching, what's making me roll my eyes, and what's giving me hope. It's a little news, a little opinion, and yes, the occasional curse word, because let's face it, have you seen the headlines lately? So if you like smart takes, deep dives, and are also thinking, WTF is happening. Search Katie Couric on Substack and hit subscribe. All of my interviews and articles are free to help everyone stay informed.

But if you want to join the group chat and hear my hottest takes, well, that's for premium users only. It's going to be so much fun. I can't wait to see you there. Again, search Katie Couric on Substack and hit subscribe. I'm I'm I Belongoria.

And I'm Maitego, Mr. Juan. And on our podcast, Hungry for History, we mix two of our favorite things, food and history. Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells, and they called these Ostercon, to vote politicians into exile. So our word ostracize is related to the word oyster. No way. Bring back the Ostercon. And because we've got a very Mikaasa esucasa kind of vibe on our show, friends always stop by. Pretty much every entry into this side of the planet was through the Gulf of Mexico.

No, the America. No, the Gulf of Mexico, continue to be so forever and ever. It blows me away how progressive Mexico was in this moment. They had land reform, they had labor rights, they had education rights. Mustard seeds were so valuable to the ancient Egyptians that they used to place them in their tombs for the afterlife. Listen to Hungry for History as part of the My Cultura Podcast Network, available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Robert Smith.

This is Jacob Goldstein, and we used to host a show called Planet Money. And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History about the best ideas and people and businesses in history. And some of the worst people, horrible ideas, and destructive companies in the history of business. Having a genius idea without a need for it is nothing. It's like not having it at all. It's a very simple, elegant lesson. Make something people want.

First episode, How Southwest Airlines Use Cheap Seats and Free Whiskey to fight its way into the airline business. The Most Texas Story Ever. There's a lot of Mavericks in that story. We're going to have Mavericks on the show. We're going to have plenty of robber barons. So many robber barons. And you know what? They're not all bad.

And we'll talk about some of the classic great moments of famous business genius. along with some of the darker moments that often get overlooked. Like Thomas Edison and the electric chair. Listen to business history on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. May 24th, 1990, a pipe bomb explodes in the front seat of environmental activist Judy Berry's car. I knew it was a bomb the second that it exploded. I felt it ripped through me with just a force more powerful and terrible. than anything that I could describe.

In season two of Ripcurrent, we ask, who tried to kill Judy Berry and why? She received death threats before the bombing. She received more threats after the bombing. The man and woman who were heard had planned to lead a summer of militant protest against logging practices in Northern California. They were climbing trees

and they were sabotaging logging equipment in the woods. The timber industry, I mean, it was the number one industry in the area, but more than it was the culture. it was the way of life. I think that this is a deliberate attempt to sabotage our movement. Episodes of Rip Current Season 2 are available now. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know the shade is always Shadiest right here.

Season 6 of the podcast Reasonably Shady with Giselle Bryan and Robin Dixon is here dropping every Monday. As two of the founding members of the Real Housewives Potomac were giving you all the laughs drama and reality news you can handle. And you know we don't hold back. So come be reasonable or shady with us each and every Monday. I was going through a walk in my neighborhood. Out of the blue, I see this huge sign next to somebody's house. Okay. The sign says, my neighbor is a Karen. Oh, what? No way.

I died laughing. I'm like, I have to know. You are lying. You, my guess, y'all. They had some time on their hands. Listen to reasonably shady from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Do you require before you sleep with a man that he either is a condom or that he has blood work to make sure he has no sexually transmitted disease? So not that I've slipped with dozens of people. However, I have a conversation, yes. I know that I'm tested every year from my gynecologist and I know I'm good and I do have a conversation. No, Kathy, to answer your question.

I don't make them prepare paperwork, a legal document stating that they are clean. I don't. Maybe that's taking chances, but yes, that's how I. I have, again, it's not like I've slept with the U.S. Army or anything, but the men I have slept with, I either know them well enough and trust them that when they say they haven't slept with anyone or whatever the time period has been,

then I feel secure. however they could lie right they could lie but that's my point i'm not getting in bed with someone who i think is a liar so i've got a really good sense about somebody that's why i don't sleep with a guy on the first or second date i have to get to know him and if if i'm not sure oh yeah i'm asking for blood work yep i am and i have you're not sure not only would i i have oh well i just want to keep you know doctors and labs in business here. You know what? I don't want to take any chances. I mean, yes, it's our last chapter. However, I'm not going to screw that up and sleep with somebody that has an STD or something that could hurt my health, you know? Again, you know, I'm not trying to dig

too deeply, but you said it. If you just have a conversation with someone and you're not in that deeply with them yet, you're not in that deep relationship where you're not. There's, you know, what's to stop a guy from saying, or a woman, frankly. from saying, you know, I'm fine when really maybe I am, maybe I'm not. I, I don't. And, you know, I, to anyone who might say turn around's fair play, you're absolutely right. I also get tested every year because that's a smart, reasonable thing to do. Most definitely.

But I do think that some women are careless. You know, I read a, I don't remember where I read it, but that in 55 and over, like, Not communities, but yes, communities. The Florida one that we told me. You don't say it, don't say it, don't say the name, that there are communities where STDs, the percentage rate is rampant. So, you know, everyone can say, oh, I'm clean, I'm this, I'm that, and maybe they are, maybe they aren't.

So in my world, I'm getting up tested. That's, of course, something we heard or read. Is it true? We don't know. I've read it several times on reliable news sources. Yes, I am imagining that that. could happen these people in these close retirement communities but you know why it happened sleeping around yeah because they haven't been because they have sexually they have STDs and they're spreading

them therefore my PSA for the day is go get tested everyone before you jump okay i love this next one i know the next we've had this conversation before we hear this one guys what changes when you're dating someone with pets i can tell you the dates end I mean, wait, can I, I know it's your turn, but can I just say, go, go, go, go. You know this story. I dated a guy for like 10 months, who was a very nice guy. He had some issues, don't we all? But when I broke up with him, I said, there were other reasons, but I said to him,

your dog is first in your life, your dog is second in your life, your computer is third in your life, your daughter's fourth in your life, and I'm a very distant fifth. like that guy would not have a date with me like let's go to dinner at six or let's go to an early movie at five and have dinner oh i can i have to feed the dog at five eight sheets every day at five i'm like oh my god is that a no deal like if you met somebody and they have a pet would you no it's not a no deal it's not a deal breaker for me right uh but i've had two men twice uh that put their animals before me what about you i want to hear what you think well first of all to look at you because you have cats and great ones too. You don't have to be there every minute because cats can be left a little longer than a dog when you have a dog. To me, I mean, I've had dogs forever, raising my family and always had a dog right now.

I don't, mainly because I don't want that responsibility. I come and go as I please. And for me, dating somebody with an animal, it can be annoying. because they can't go on that trip because they don't have anybody to watch their dog. Or if you're out and about with a girlfriend and we go, let's keep going, let's just spend a night here. We're having a great time. We'll get a room. I can't. I got to go home to the dog. It is a huge responsibility. And I know people love their pets. I loved mine. They're a part of your family. But it makes things a little more difficult. It's one more thing you have to set up and arrange before you can

do what you want to do. So, so talk about where there's a will, there's a way. I have neighbors that watch my cat. I have a pet service that I can call. So does your set up? Yes. Well, that's what if you, if you want a date and you have a dog, get it set up. So the guy I dated had a dog door. So his dog could come and go in his fence yard. I think that's fabulous. But he, but he still wouldn't do it because, you know, the dog needs to eat at 5.01 p.m. Not 5.0. 2.501 p.m. So for me, it's not a deal breaker, but I will say to you that I make sure my pets, my geriatric cats, who are very sweet, are taken care of.

It does not stop me from traveling or dating. I pay someone to come in. There is another thing that I'm going to say out loud. My boyfriend has a dog. Oh, yeah. She's a great dog, and it has. been a problem when he couldn't come because he couldn't get a dog sitter. But my biggest ick is the hair.

If you have an animal that sheds, no matter cat, dog, I don't care what it is. If it sheds, you ought to clean it every single day. Okay, so now we're getting down to it. Susan, it's not about the responsibility or the poor dog being lonely. I don't want dog hair. I knew we were going to get to it. She doesn't want dog hair. And that's the deal breaker for if they've got a dog,

it better be a hairless dog or a something doodle that doesn't shed. Yes, they're great dogs because, and my dogs were also dander free and they did not shed. But a lot of times if you're over someone's house and you go to sit down, I don't want to be rude, but there's dog hair or cat hair. everywhere and they have a sheet over the furniture. Okay, that's great. Remove it before you invite me in to sit down. Now you want me to sit on that sheet. And my girlfriend, Karen, I love her. And she had this cute little dog and he's deceased, God bless him, but he had short, wiry hair, like really short. I would get in her car and I'd say, are you kidding me? Are you sure that wasn't pubic hair?

No. Where did that come from? It's crazy. I mean, I mean, I hear you, cat hair. I mean, I have two cats and one's long-haired. I never see hair in your house ever. I've never smelled a litter box because you know I would say it. Let me tell you. So I, so I clean my litter boxes twice a day. I vacuum the can hair.

I brush the cats outside, take the hair off. But I still say all of those things are doable with a guy who has pets. Yeah. The problem for me is when the pet, in short, The problem for me is when the pet is more important than I am. Yes. And that is, that's a conversation I have really pretty quickly on. And that was one of the reasons, one of the many reasons.

It's not just pets. That comes with anything like you were saying earlier. I remember me, when I met my husband, Dickey, my ex-husband, baseball came first. Yeah. Well, that's different. That's his career. I understood that, yes. That's different.

I mean, unless... But if you're going to tell me that the Chihuahua is coming before me. All right. So the answer is we're not getting any more pets, and we're going to make guys take a lie detector about how important their pets are to them before we get into it. You're just going to show me how much they clean up after them. Okay.

All right. I want to move on to a different subject because, for me, transitioning, totally different topic here. But transitioning from a parent to a grandparent, you and I, I have five grandchildren. And those of you listen to my podcast, our podcast, I've always said I have two granddaughters. Well, I do, but I also have three step grandsons, but they're not step. I love them too. So I now have five grandchildren.

But how is it for you going from parent to grandparent? And like how the differences in raising kids versus grandparents? much better. It's so much easier. I mean, I worry about them like I do my, my own children, but it's more fun, if you will, because you don't have them on a full-time basis. When you see them, it's always an exciting moment. As a matter of fact, I'm going down. My granddaughter, Bella, Isabella, is turning 13 on Friday. And that's the one that I promised the Paris trip to, blah, blah, Wow, we're going in the spring. So I'm going down to Virginia, to my daughter's house, to visit with her, and we're going

out to dinner on Friday. But I thought it would be so exciting to take the four-year-old. My daughter has a four-year-old, and my son has a four-year-old. They are like besties, but they don't get to see each other often. So I called my daughter-in-law and said, what do you think? I might take Stella with me for a couple days for a road trip. We're going, and she goes, oh, my God, I can't even tell her yet. She'll drive me crazy until Thursday.

So she must have shared it with my son. My son texts me last night and said, mom, could you do it now FaceTime her? Because I want to watch her face when you tell her when he asks her. So long story short, I said, Stella, Mimi's going to go to Virginia, to Aunt Britney's. You want to come? And the big eyes and she's shaking her head. Yes, yes, yes. I said, Friday is Isabella's birthday.

And we're going to go out to dinner. Guess what she says? What? Oh, should I pack a dress? I said absolutely So that So your grandchildren Well my my grandsons are older

Yes And and they're you know I've only known them almost two years Because that's how long Kyle and Candy Have been married almost two years And they're great kids And but you know boys they're into sports They all take music lessons

They do 4H I mean these boys I don't know how Kyle and Candy do it because my kids were busy. I will say my kids played piano. They all did sports. But now watching my kids do it with their kids is crazy. And then my two granddaughters, one is seven and one is two and a half.

And the two and a half year old, I guess for me it's so fun to get to relive. My two and a half year old, Reese, is, this is her first Christmas thing. that, you know, she kind of knows what's going on. And I was showing her, we're going to do a little Christmas Velcro tree tonight. I got it for her to put the ornaments on. Her eyes, when I was FaceTime into this morning, she was like, a dear, a present, a stock, like all the little things to hang up. And I think for me, I'm really enjoying seeing the wonderment in my grandkids' eyes. It's such a gift to see that all over again.

Because when they're your children, you love seeing. those things but you're so busy cooking and making sure their clothes are clean when it's your grandchildren it's just you really get to see especially this time of year you get to see the magic of this season and just watch their eyes

and I love it I also love sending them home at the end of the night yeah exactly and I feel as if when I have to discipline I do with grandchildren but that is not my job I get to spoil them a little more then being a parent as you

wait are you wait whoa whoa Susan are you the Mimi that gives kids your grandkids cookies before dinner are you one of those maybe string cheese well hell that's dinner at my house okay I have one for us how do you manage integrating

families when dating later in life and or Marian a second time so he has a family you have a family I got to tell you, again, my experience, I think, is different than yours, because when I first started dating after my husband, Daryl, died, my daughter was not interested in seeing them, meeting, or anything. But now, now they're all on board if I meet someone to bringing them home and sharing holidays. Here's the thing. Until it happens. well no I don't think so I think my kids are already I hear you I think my kids are

I'm going to ask you that in a minute so get your answer ready but I think that my kids are ready I think the bigger issue is when you have two sets of children and probably two sets of grandchildren mine and his right well think about it my kids aren't going to travel to you know, East Overshoe, Wisconsin to spend the holiday with his kids. So I think realistically, you have to be prepared that holidays might be tricky. You might not get to spend every holiday with each other or your children. You might have to say this year, you know, let's call them John, I'm going to spend the holiday with you, John and your kids. And next year I'm going to spend it with my kids. I think you have to be pliable. You have to be flexible. You have to be flexible. You have

to be willing to make some decisions that you wouldn't have made when they're your children. Absolutely. Even like this Thanksgiving, I thought my daughter-in-law's son would be here because they're always here and they go, no, mom, we do it every other year. Remember, we're going to Jessus, but we'll be at your house Christmas all day, but we won't be there Thanksgiving. That part, yes, I take, I understand. That's your own family season. Yes, when you're in love with somebody else and he has a family too. And if you were in the same state, Gus, it would make it a lot easier. Unless it's Texas.

Could be a 10-hour drive side to side. Florida's like that too. Hey, everyone. It's me, Katie Couric. Did you know that I recently joined Substack? It's where I'll be sharing my unfiltered conversations with the people everyone's talking about. Journalists breaking news, politicians making it,

actors we can't stop watching, experts, and a few unexpected voices who just might change the way you see the world. I'll also share what I'm reading, what I'm watching, what's making me roll my eyes, and what's giving me hope. It's a little news, a little opinion, and yes, the occasional curse word, because let's face it, have you seen the headlines lately? So if you like smart takes, deep dives, and are also thinking WTF is happening, search Katie Couric on Substack and hit subscribe. All of my interviews and articles are free

to help everyone stay informed. But if you want to join the group chat and hear my hottest takes, well, that's for premium users only. It's going to be so much fun. I can't wait to see you there. Again, search Katie Couric on Substack and hit subscribe.

You know, the shade is always Shadiest right here. Season 6 of the podcast Reasonably Shady with Jazele Bryan and Robin Dixon is here dropping every Monday. As two of the founding members, members of the Real Housewives of Potomac, we're giving you all the laughs, drama, and reality news you can handle. And you know we don't hold back. So come be reasonable or shady with us each and every Monday. I was going through a walk in my neighborhood. Out of the blue, I see this

huge sign next to somebody's house. Okay. The sign says, my neighbor is a Karen. Oh, what? No way! I died laughing. I'm like, I have to know You are lying. Humongous, y'all. They had some time on their hands.

Listen to reasonably shady from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm I'm Idao, Mr. Juan. And on our podcast, Hungry for History, we mix two of our favorite. favorite things, food and history.

Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells, and they called these Ostercon, to vote politicians into exile. So our word ostracize is related to the word oyster. No way. Bring back the Ostercon. And because we've got a very Mikaasa esucasa kind of vibe on our show, friends always stop by. Pretty much every entry into this side of the planet was through the,

The Gulf of Mexico, not of America. No, the Gulf of Mexico. The Gulf of Mexico, continue to be forever and ever. It blows me away how progressive Mexico was in this moment. They had land reform, they had labor rights, they had education rights. Mustard seeds were so valuable to the ancient Egyptians that they used to place them in their tombs for the afterlife. Listen to Hungry for History as part of the My Cultura Podcast Network, available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Robert Smith. This is Jacob Goldstein. And we used to host a show called Planet Money. And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History about the best ideas and people and businesses in history. And some of the worst people, horrible ideas and destructive companies in the history of business. Having a genius idea without a need for it is nothing. It's like not having it at all. It's a very simple, elegant lesson.

Make something people want. First episode, how Southwest Airlines use cheap seats and free whiskey to fight its way into the airline business. The most Texas story ever. There's a lot of mavericks in that story. We're going to have mavericks on the show. We're going to have plenty of robber barons. So many robber barons. And you know what?

They're not all bad. And we'll talk about some of the classic great moments of famous business geniuses, along with some of the darker moments that often get overlooked. Like Thomas Edison and the election. Listen to business history on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Ilama is a spirit. It's not just a city. I didn't really have an interest of being on air.

I kind of was up there to just try and infiltrate the building. It's where Kronk was born in a club in the West End. Four world star. It was five, five, nine. Where a tiny bar birthed a generation of rap stars, where preachers go viral. And students at the HBCU turned heartbreak in the rest. resurrection. How do you get people to believe in something that's dead? Well, Dream was brought Hollywood to the South, and hustlers bring their visions to create

black wealth. Nobody's rushing into relationships with you. Where are you from? They want to look in the eye. Where the future is nostalgia. I'm talking to chat, GPZ. She's like, you really the first lady to have a gay gay girl's tape in Atlanta, Georgia. Like, that's what separates you from a lot of people. And I'm like, oh what? You're right. Atlanta doesn't wait for permission. It builds its own spotlight. I'm big rude. Let us guide you. through the stories behind Atlanta's most iconic moments. Listen to Atlanta is on the IHard Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

When do you say, okay, guys, I'm not going to have Christmas dinner because I want to spend it with his family this year. I don't know that I can do that. I could. I struggle. I'll tell you why I could. because if I find the guy that I love, then it will be equally important to me

to share those experiences with him and his family. Of course, the ideal thing would be for both families to get together, but that's not always logical or convenient. Like in my case, one lives in on an island, you know? Right, it's just not always possible. But I would want to make my partner happy and I would want us to share some holidays together.

So, yeah, I would be willing to give up. And, of course, for me, because my son is divorced, the one that's remarried now, my older granddaughter, I don't get to see her every holiday. So, you know, I'm sort of used to it in that way. Again, I think marriage, relationships, dating holidays at our age just brings another layer of difficulty. It's manageable. It's doable.

but it's those conversations that if you don't have them up front, it can get pretty sticky once you're knee-deep in the relationship. Exactly. I've known people that actually celebrate the day on a different day so that she could have her whole family there. Their Christmas was like the weekend before or a couple days after, whatever the case may be. And that was just as important to her because she had everybody there. And it helped her children not have to split it. I remember. where, like, people pack up their kids. They come here for three hours,

and they've got to pack them all up again and go over there for three hours. And it's difficult. And that's why I said, if you can be flexible, you know, you can do Thanksgiving. You know, Canadian Thanksgiving is a different day than ours. There you go, celebrate a different one. Pick another day, folks.

You know, be flexible here. Okay, what about the big one for me? What about becoming an empty nester? I got to put an input in here, Kathy. I remember the story you told me how to sell the frigging house. I can't live here anymore. I'm telling you, when we bought that house in Austin, it was this huge family house. It had, I think it was six bedrooms, five and a half baths, a big pool out in the backyard,

summer kitchen. I mean, it was the house that I was going to have every Christmas in with my husband, the kids, the grandkids, the pets. That was the plan. And then when the last one went off to college And the other were not coming home They had internships in the summer They weren't coming home

I would go up there Because upstairs were three bedrooms Three bathrooms, a playroom It was like the kids' whole thing upstairs They're sweet Exactly And I would walk into the rooms And I would just start to cry

You know there was all their memorabilia from high school And I was like oh no no no So she sold the house So I said to my house we got to sell the house he's like what this was your dream house he said you wanted this house you I said yep um four years later out the door I was and you know what Susan I never looked back because to me that's one something you needed to do but but in empty nester for me um the hardest part I'm if I'm being honest was the first year my last child went to college then I kind of got used to it

I don't know, I can't tell you why, other than they didn't come home that much. They came home for holidays and such, but it wasn't, they didn't come home for summers anymore. And, but I really struggled. Did you struggle? There's a lot of people that struggle with empty nesters. And I feel as if they're the kind of people that don't think about their own lives. Because that's when your own life, hold on. Are you just saying that I didn't think about my own life? No, you just thought about getting me another house. Like, I need to remove myself from this place. But to me, it was hard.

I remember crying when they went off to college and they were moving to Florida, Brittany, but I still had the boys. And then the boys, only one went, the other one hung around. So it was never really empty. But when it finally was, I was like, oh, I'm clean in that room, Kathy. I was disgusting. Let me just, for all of you who don't know Susan, Knowles well enough. Let me just, let me give you the down and dirty hair. Most things to Susan

can be boiled down to, is it clean? If it's clean, Susan can live with it. If it's not clean, she's out. And I'm not a germaphobic, but maybe I am. I'm not like a freak. I just like things in my house. And everyone else's house. I'll clean yours. I don't care. But no, I miss them. But you, I got used to it. And it was like, I look forward. to when I'm going to see them, but I like not having them underfoot. I like not tripping over somebody's sneakers walking in the

door or their baseball glove or these dance shoes or the eye likes. I will say what you just alluded to a minute ago, the fact that when we become empty nesters it is a golden,

no pun intended, opportunity for us to rediscover ourselves, to rediscover our relationships with our husband or our partners, um, our wives, whatever. It is an opportunity to take up new, uh, new, fun things. You're going to have time now because you're not worried about even adult kids you have to keep up after. Yeah. You know. So it's a, you're right. It is, it is another stepping stone. It's another chapter of our lives. And I think once you accepted and embrace that chapter, it doesn't feel so sad anymore. And it is difficult in the beginning. But the initial,

The initial abrupt, when that last one leaves the house, whether it's for a job, college, whatever it is, it's like, wow, it's really quiet in here. It is. It's true. And all, I was going to say something, but I didn't want to interrupt. Also, you just don't know. Just when you get out of the depressed part and you're cleaning up and everything's yours now and you're doing it, you're away, they come back. And they come back with kids sometimes. You know, maybe their lives are disrupted in some way, mom.

I need to come home for a while. I was like, oh, okay. I remember my son came home to stay with me for a few months before he bought his own home with my granddaughter. And I was up getting her breakfast at 5.30, 6 o'clock in the morning driving her to preschool. But if you knew the timeline, that's more doable. If it's indefinitely, that keeps you. I got to say, I never, that's another whole question. I never invited my children to come back and stay indefinitely.

When my son got his divorce, it was like, sure, I think I said, sure, until you could figure things out. And he knows in my world, that means figure things out. Yeah, right. Which he did very quickly, bought a home, moved in with his daughter. I mean, it all went really well. But I do think that's a whole other topic about kids coming home to live. live with you? We could do a whole podcast on that one. Did your kids stay and live with you for a while?

Well, wait, the boys were here. I have a funny story. I was downstairs doing a friend's hair, and I was coming up the steps, and it was about 6.30. And I forget which twin it was, Nick or Chris. It had to be Chris. And he goes, yo, mom, aren't you hungry? I said, yeah, I could eat. Mom, it's 6.30. I said, yeah, aren't you going to cook? I go, okay, family meeting time. All you people that came back, sit there. Here's the good news.

The good news is that freezer is always full. Okay, mommy keeps food. I have a question. Here's the, yes. What's a freezer? The freezer, refrigerator and your free, I'm cats. I said, here's what I would suggest. When you get up in the morning to go to,

work. Think about what it is that you might want to eat for dinner, take it out of the freezer so it's defrost it. And when you come home, prepare it. They looked at me, Kathy. I kid you not, like I have lost my mind. They go, why will we do that? I go, are you serious right now? Because I will always be your mother, but I'm not your mommy anymore. Bend for yourselves. You guys are 20-some years old. Shape it up. I mean, I would cook occasionally, but I cook seven nights a week, you know, if they're used to me. That's another thing with grandkids. When it's children, that's a perfect example of what we were talking about earlier.

When children, your children, I've got to get, and I'm not a great cook, Taco Tuesday, here we come, getting food on the table because, you know, one had baseball practice, the other one had lacrosse practice, the other one had soccer practice. Boom, bang, bang, bang, one right after the other. You're running, right. But now. Oh, thank God for hot dogs at the park. But the other thing is now with grandchildren, just to go back there for a minute, my

granddaughters come over, I have little aprons for them. We bake homemade brownies. And even though I'm not a great cook, I can bake. But I'm also encouraging them to try and get in the kitchen because when my kids were little, we didn't have time to teach them how to crack an egg or I didn't have time. Even to crack an egg, it was very rare. And, in fact, my kids to this day, two of my three children are excellent cooks. The oldest one kind of rivals me.

But the other two are great cooks, and they're self-taught. Because they should have an interest. So when they're interested in something, like my daughter, you would think that she's going to be a fabulous cook. She wanted nothing to do with the kids. Because you did it all the time. But I have them help. My Nick, he'll come over and say, Mom, let's make this together. but I want to do it so I know what I'm doing.

Yeah. Like he enjoys certain meals that he loves. Okay, let's go. I mean, I remember when my husband was alive, we went to New York City. My daughter was living in Brooklyn. And she lived in an apartment with her roommate. The kitchen was the size of my powder room. Oh, it's awful in there.

No, wait, I have to tell you. She cooked, and a roommate cooked this entire meal. my husband helped with the turkey in this tiny little shoebox of a kitchen and they set up a card table to mix things. It was unbelievable to watch that. But you know what it did to me? It depressed me. Why?

Because I have this huge kitchen that I dust. It's spotless, girls. It's spotless. And you know what, Kathy, I dare say this. We have another segment, but I think we should save it for a whole episode. It's about aging. and I have a lot to say. Aging?

Aging? What's that? What do you think? I think we should do it another time because the talk of marriage, of children, of grandchildren, I need a nap. All in one day. An aging thing is a whole other story, and I've got a lot to say. So with that being said, we just want to thank you all so much for joining us today. you enjoyed this chat. Be sure to follow us a Bachelor Happy Hour as we have new episodes coming

out every single week you won't want to miss. And make sure to submit your questions to us. You can go to Bachelornation.com slash Golden Hour or hit us up on socials at Bachelor Happy Hour. Absolutely. Listen to Bachelor Happy Hour's Golden Hour on the IHeart Radio app or wherever you listen to your podcast. Until next time. Or until your next marriage or your Kids move back home. Have a great week. Yeah. I know he has a reputation, but it's going to catch up to him.

Gabe Ortiz is a cop. His brother Larry, a mystery Gabe didn't want to solve until it was too late. He was the head of this gang. You're going to push that line for the cause. Took us under his wing and showed us the game, as they call it. When Larry's killed, Gabe must untangle the dangerous past. that could destroy everything he thought he knew. Listen to the Brothers Ortiz on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone, it's me, Katie Couric. Did you know that I recently joined Substack? Very exciting. It's where I'll be sharing my unfiltered conversations with the people everyone's talking about. I'll also tell you what I'm reading, what I'm watching, what's making me crazy,

and what's giving me hope. If you like deep dives, hot takes, and real talk, you're in the right place. Search Katie Couric on Substack and hit subscribe. I'll be there reporting live, most likely, in my pajamas. See you there. I'm Robert Smith, and this is Jacob Goldstein, and we used to host a show called Planet Money.

And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History about the best ideas and people and businesses in history. And some of the worst people, horrible ideas, and destructive companies in the history of business. First episode, How Southwest Airlines Used Cheap Seats and Fleeveseats and free whiskey to fight its way into the airlines. The most Texas story ever. Listen to business history on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Atlanta is a spirit. It's not just a city. It's where Kronk was born in a club in the West End. A full world star, it was 5.59. Where preachers go viral. And students at the HBCU turned heartbreak

into resurrection. Where dream was brought Hollywood to the south. And hustlers bring their visions to create black wealth. Nobody's rushing into relationships you. I'm Big Rube. Listen to Atlanta is on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I knew it was a bomb the second that it exploded. I felt it ripped through me. In season two of Rip Current, we asked, who tried to kill Judy Berry and why? They were climbing trees and they were sabotaging logging equipment in the woods. She received death threats

before the bombing. She received more threats after the bombing. This is a deliberate attempt to sabotage our movement. Episodes of Rip Current Season 2 are available now. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.