Bachelor Happy Hour - Kathy & Susan on Plastic Surgery and Divorce | Golden Hour

Episode Date: December 10, 2025

Today on “Golden Hour,” Kathy and Susan are helping you tackle the big decisions in life! We get so many questions about everything from surgeries to therapy and even divorce, so we’re helping you make those major choices. We delve into everything you need to know before getting a cosmetic procedure: First and foremost, do it for YOU! We also go deeper and talk about when it’s time to leave a marriage. What does a marriage look like when divorce is on the horizon? Tune in now to hear all this and more, and be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. I know he has a reputation, but it's going to catch up to him. Gabe Ortiz is a cop. His brother Larry, a mystery Gabe didn't want to solve until it was too late. He was the head of this gang. You're going to push that line for the cause. Took us under his wing and showed us the game, as they call it.

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Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome back, everybody, to Bachelor Happy Hour's Golden Hour. We're back again. And thanks so much for joining us again. Kathy, are you so excited to be here? I mean, I am so happy to be here. I am all decorated for Christmas. I am done with Thanksgiving.

I'm on to the next holiday. I'm healthy. I've been sick. I'm healthy again. It's all good. It's all good. Okay. Today, we're going to get into making big decisions, whether it's cosmetic,

breakups, or anything in between. And you know what, Susan? A lot goes in to making tough choices. And I hate to say this, but as you and I get older, it seems like we have maybe less decisions, but they seem bigger. Does that make sense? I don't know if there's less. I don't know. I feel like the decisions I make are momentous.

They're different maybe than when we were raising kids, but they're still decisions, if you will. All right. Well, tell me. What's the biggest decision you've made lately? I mean, not to scream at my daughter when I was visiting. Let me help you all out here. As you all know, Susan is a clean freak.

We're going to cut to the end of this story. Her daughter is not. And Susan goes... My granddaughter. Oh, gosh, it was our 13th birthday. I scrubbed from morning until dusk. Okay, so your big decision to not scream. But the other big decision you made,

which I don't think is a big decision at all, is to clean the house. Instead of spending time with your family, you made the decision to clean her house. I had to. I couldn't relax, but then I did spend time with them, of course. But, you know, 13-year-olds aren't always happy.

And that's a lot. And then to make another decision, my daughter went all out and did this surprise, and Bella comes home from school, and she was miserable. And Brittany's like, really, Bella, really? and I want it so badly to put my two cents in there, but

it's not. Okay, so you are reading my mind. One of the biggest decisions that I have faced, it's a, it's a decision category, if you will, about children. When do we, can we, when

should we say things to our children and our grandchildren? Because our children are now adults, right? And we, for me, deciding when to speak up to my kids and say you're doing this wrong. I'll give you one example. Tell me something. You actually refrain? Yes. And I say that. I'm surprised. Because you don't with anybody else that I see. Well, I'll tell you, I, after talking to my kids and realizing

that I am always going to be their mother, I'm always going to be my children's mother. But my role has changed and so the way I make decisions about spending time with my kids watching the way they live the truth is it it really takes a lot now for me to say um you're doing that wrong or you don't say that period well no I do I actually do my daughter let's my two year old two and a half year old granddaughter she used to let her sort of wander around no eating off whatever just kind of wandering around the floor eating and I said to her you know you really should have her sit in her high chair she needs to learn that that's what you eat well it's where you eat but it's also a social time it's where you interact with your family it there's more down and she

kind of looked at me um because I don't speak up very often you know kids have the right to raise their children. Yeah. And so for me, making my big decision, if you will, was making the decision to zip it, zip my mouth and not say very much unless my kids ask me. And occasionally they do. Occasionally they do. My big decision, do I need to purchase that?

Do I really need this? Oh, Susan, come on now, fess up. I just fess up. And that decision is always on my side. Yeah, Susan always needs it. Those are never big decisions. For Susan, it's a matter of how fast you can click the button purchase. Okay, what about, as we've gotten older, you and I, we've made no bones about it.

We've both done some cosmetic surgery. I'm thinking about doing some more. But was that hard for you to decide to do it? Absolutely not. Me either. Because it's something I want. Once again. Okay. So to me, my experience in talking to people about it is you can do cosmetic surgery for a few reasons. One could be for yourself. You feel better. And that's our reason. I know because you and I've talked about it. We do it because it makes us feel better. Other people do it because they want to attract a man or a partner or they want a job where they think they have to look old or they're afraid of getting old.

For me, it wasn't a hard decision to do it because I knew it would make me feel better. And look, and I think, and I disagree with that statement you made. You think some people do it to attract the man or get a job. The only reason they're doing it is for them to feel better about themselves. Then if they feel better, they will attract the man or get the jobs. You know what I'm saying? I'm not saying they won't feel. Maybe I misstated it. I'm not saying they won't feel better. I'm saying they feel pressure to do it. For, you know, we have a culture in our, in our world, in our society of youth. Everything has to be youth. You have to dress. Especially if you're on TV. Well, in general, in the workplace. You know, how many old newscasters do you see women? We see older men. We don't see older women. We live in a youth culture. And so we're, all chasing that eternal fountain of youth.

But when you put your age down, you can't cosmetically change that. Your age is your age. Well, your age is your age, but I'm saying the way people view you. So if someone looks at you, and you and I've had this conversation, for me, decided to do that lower facelift with you. First of all, I hate to say it, but I thought, oh, this will be an adventure with Susan. It was like, this will be fun. I mean, I never, you know, I used to make jokes about I could never have a facelift.

Could you imagine if I did? You did? You said that? You actually said that? Listen, but I'll tell you why. I used to say, I can't wait. I used to say it. I'll tell you why.

Because I thought, if I die on the table, God forbid. I know. I think that too. Could you imagine my children? My mother, she thought she had to go get a facelift and now we're burying. And of course, I, now I'm like, oh, well, that happens. It happens. But for me.

Do you think it impacts people's self-exempts? esteem? I can't speak for anyone but me. I feel better when I'm fit. I feel better when I have makeup on. I feel better when I look my best. So for me, I think you and I were being honest, we are all have bought in to the youth society to a degree.

I don't just do looks. I do it with health, eating right, working out. all those things. Eating right will never be in my vocabulary, but I eat good and bad. But like, for instance, when we went, Kathy, I thought, okay, it's time, I got to do this. And it's just the minor one that, what do they call it, a lifestyle lift is just the lower half. It's not that invasive. I mean, it's still surgery.

But I never realized when I watched one of the Bachelor episodes from before and then I saw myself on Got to Get Out. When I saw my face, I go, oh, my gosh, thank God I did that. Hey, listen, it could have been worse. When I was on Paradise, I could have worn a bikini, and then everyone would have said she needs to cut all her skin tied up over her head like a knot, like a panty hose and cut the knot. But no, seriously, after our surgery, did you feel like, ooh, I look amazing?

I didn't. It was a slight thing, but after seeing myself, I go, oh, it was more than, it looks way better. Well, you and I, I think we can round this conversation out by you and I do it because it makes us feel better. Hey, everyone. It's me, Katie Couric. Did you know that I recently joined Substack? It's where I'll be sharing my unfiltered conversations with the people everyone's talking about. Journalists breaking news, politicians making it, actors we can't stop watching, experts, and a few unexpected voices who just might change the way you see the world. I'll also share what I'm reading, what I'm watching, what's making me roll my eyes, and what's giving me hope. It's a little news, a little opinion, and yes, the occasional curse word, because let's face it, have you seen the headlines lately? So if you like smart takes, deep dives, and are also thinking, WTF is happening, search Katie Couric on Substack and hit subscribe.

All of my interviews and articles are free to help everyone stay informed. But if you want to join the group chat and hear my hottest takes, well, that's for premium users only. It's going to be so much fun. I can't wait to see you there. Again, search Katie Couric on Substack and hit subscribe. I'm I'm I Belongoria. And I'm Maitegummerzrejorn. And on our podcast, Hungry for History, we mix two of our favorite things, food and history.

Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells, and they called these awesome. Ostercon to vote politicians into exile. So our word ostracize is related to the word oyster. No way. Bring back the Ostercon. And because we've got a very Mikaasa is Su Casa kind of vibe on our show, friends always stop by. Pretty much every entry into this side of the planet was through the Gulf of Mexico.

No, of America. No, the America. The Gulf of Mexico, continue to be doing so forever and ever. It blows me away how progressive Mexico was in this moment. They had land reform, they had labor rights, they had education rights. Mustard seeds were so valuable to the ancient Egyptians that they used to place them in their tombs for the afterlife. Listen to Hungry for History as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro, host of the hit podcast Family Secrets.

car like a rolling stone came on and he said there's a line in there about your mother and I said what? What I would do if I didn't feel like I was being accepted is shoes and identity that other people can't have. I knew something had happened to me in the middle of the night but I couldn't hold on to what had happened. These are just a few of the moving and important stories I'll be holding space for on my upcoming 13th season of family secrets. Whether you've been on this journey with me from season one, or just joining the Family Secrets family, we're so happy to have you with us.

I'll dive deep into the incredible power of secrets, the ones that shape our identities, test our relationships, and ultimately reveal who we truly are. Listen to Family Secrets on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Michael Lewis here. My book, The Big Short, tells the story of the buildup

and burst of the U.S. housing market back in 2008. It follows a few unlikely, but lucky people who saw the real estate market for the black hole it would become and eventually made billions of dollars from that perception. It was like feeding the monster, said Eisman. We fed the monster until it blew up. The monster was exploding. Yet on the streets of Manhattan,

there was no sign anything important had just happened. Now, 15 years after the Big Short's original release and a decade after it became an Academy Award-winning movie, I've recorded an audiobook edition for the very first time. The Big Short Story, what it means when people start betting against the market, and who really pays for an unchecked financial system? It is as relevant today as it's ever been, offering invaluable insight into the current economy and also today's politics. Get the Big Short now at Pushkin.fm. slash audiobooks, or wherever audiobooks are sold. May 24th, 1990, a pipe bomb explodes in the front seat of environmental activist Judy Barry's car.

I knew it was a bomb the second that it exploded. I felt it ripped through me with just a force more powerful and terrible than anything that I could describe. In season two of Rip Current, we ask, who tried to kill Judy Barry and why? She received death threats before the bombing. She received more threats after the bombing. The man and woman who were heard had planned to lead a summer of militant protest against logging practices in Northern California. They were climbing trees and they were sabotaging logging equipment in the woods. The timber industry, I mean, it was the number one industry in the area, but more than it was the culture.

It was the way of life. I think that this is a deliberate attempt to sabotage our movement. Episodes of Rip Current Season 2 are available now. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Pie. or wherever you get your podcasts. I want to ask you, because I don't have this in my life, and I've always wanted to ask you this. And today's the day.

So my husband died. There was no decision for me to make. People our age, even now, people are still making the choice to get divorced at any age. 40, 50, 50, 60, 70, I want to know if you're comfortable talking about it, how did you make that tough decision to get divorced? And let me, before you answer, any decision you make, my husband's suicide. It didn't just affect me. It's a ripple effect, right? It affects my children, our friendships, everything. When you divorced your husband, what did you consider, I mean, of course you did, Talk to me about the considerations in making that decision.

So a lot of people realize that the marriage is not going to make it. And I did many, many years ago. But I made the decision to hang in and pretend till my children were at a high school. I sometimes kicked myself for it. Maybe I would have found, you know, love of my life when I was in my 40s or, you know, whatever. But I made that decision because we weren't people that argued or fought. We both grew different ways. We're still friends today.

So to answer your question, I didn't make the decision. I didn't follow through. I wish I had my life, although I've had a good life, I don't know what it would have been like with three kids on my own. Well, so you thought, it sounds like you're saying you made the decision to stay. because you thought it was in the best interest of your children. Absolutely. Well, so that was your decision-making process. When my boys, when we finally did actually separate, we weren't even divorced yet,

and my boys came up to me and said, Mom, why did you wait so long? We knew you've been unhappy for a long, many, many years. And I go, what? Because of you guys. I mean, they go, Mom, you didn't have to do that. Like, it's funny how your kids don't even, you don't, you think. think you know what's going through their heads, but we don't. Yeah, no, I totally agree with that.

Did you get any therapy before or after the divorce? Not before, after, yes. I've gone to therapy a couple different times for a while in my life. What I found with therapy, and that's, we could do a whole podcast on that one, Kathy, but I was answering my own questions. Like, you know, I know what to do. It's getting me to stop being stuck on stupid and not making the same decision over and over again

and expecting a different outcome. Right. Well, I think, I mean, I, again, I'm not divorced, but I feel like divorce, again, is one of those ripple effect things. And I wondered, I mean, I had to go through a lot of therapy because. Well, you didn't get a divorce.

No, but when my husband took his life and I found him, I needed a little bit of therapy there. But I feel like today, I don't know if it's just our age, that some of the stressors that we have in our life, we look at the issues our children have, our grandchildren. And, you know, I just wondered, like, so you didn't do any therapy around your divorce. Do you think it's because divorce is so common now? No, because I don't hold things in. I talk about things. I think that for me personally, the best people that need therapy are the ones that hold everything in and they don't talk about their issues. That's why you need a therapist to get it out. For me, it's... What about to help make different decisions? It didn't work. I still

make the decisions. Like I have a question, Kathy, how, what is it like to break up a relationship or and the connection when no one does anything wrong. There's not like a big reason. Well, I would ask that of you. You got divorced. You stayed with him and then one day you decided we're done. Because I knew it wasn't right. And in any relationship, I know what makes me tick.

I know what makes me happy. I've always been a giver. And you hit a point where you realize I'm not that happy. What am I doing? Why am I here? Yeah. I mean, I can't, for me, I didn't have that. I mean, it sounds to me that you stayed married because you thought you were doing your kids a favor, which I think most people who divorce after the kids go, most people say they wish they had divorced earlier. And so I think. I'm not the norm. Like our house wasn't, I'm here a lot of people. Like ex-husbands are going to bring their new wife or girlfriend to their child's wedding and I won't go because of this. I can't go without a man. Like they're bitter.

They don't speak highly of each other. I mean, I get it. Some divorces are because of really terrible reasons. Right. But don't you graduate from that and forgive? Like, you had a life together. You had children together. I don't know.

You have to have some kind of respect. I don't know because obviously I, I, not been in this situation. I think sometimes the hurt and the disappointment runs so deep that... Don't you forgive, though? I don't know because I'm not... I mean, imagine somebody doing

you really wrong. Oh, I'm sorry. Someone does me wrong. Susan, get your baseball bat out and take care of me. Help me. I think... I mean, it's always... The hurt will always be there, but you have to be civil, especially if you have children. I don't understand divorce,

couples with families that can't get along and can't be in the same room at the same time. Yeah. I don't know. I, I, again, my parents were divorced and it was the, maybe, maybe that's why I'm the way I am. Maybe that's why I work so hard to make my marriage work. My parents, for all you people have watched the movie, War of the Roses. Your parents, could they be in the same room together after the divorce? My father could have. My mother was absolutely a lunatic and could not. By the way, when I say my mother, I mean my real mother, because as you know, my stepmother is who I consider my mother. She was lovely. But I think that, I don't know, I think that everyone today faces tough decisions. People change jobs more often now. I mean, our fathers, my father changed jobs, I think, twice or maybe three times in his entire career. A lot of people just, now people are just, just constantly moving. Do you think it's because of getting laid off or career changes?

I think it's all of the above. I think, you know, AI, tech, there's so many career opportunities now that did not exist when we were coming up. And I think that people have to be more fluid in their careers. Some careers are drying up because AI will take over those jobs that they had. Well, how about it? You can't get a human on the phone no matter what company you're calling. It takes 12 minutes, I time them. Yeah. And they don't listen. But imagine having a family.

I grew up in the same house. Imagine having a family. Talk about a stressor. Talk about a big decision. You know, I look at my kids. My son changed jobs recently. You know, he went through a divorce. He is now married to the most fabulous woman.

But he had a career change. My daughter, her husband, husband. They're always talking about living here, living there. She loves her job. Where should we live? How important is family? I think kids today, and when I say kids, I mean adults, young adults, face pressures that may be, that's why I started this podcast saying our decisions aren't as difficult. I think our children face a much more uncertain future because so many things are changing because careers are. But you've got to understand that they're growing up with these changes too much more than we did like and and they will see big changes big like we thought

were big. However, for them it just kind of rolls. Well, I don't know. I don't know about that. I think I think it's trying it's for I can only speak about the young people I know and I talk to them a lot about my daughter's friends. They're trying to figure out next steps, given where the jobs are, where the job markets are. You know, who's laying off? Where is the next place to get into? You know, for a while, it was, it was tech. It was cybersecurity. Now it's a, it's constantly evolving. And I think that is stressful. What would you say, you know, you have older, well, actually, I have one older grandchild than you. What do you say to, you? your teenage grandchildren, if they ask you, about you did not go to college, I did.

What would you say to your grandchildren? I went to a trade school, though. No, no, no, I'm saying, what would you say to them about? I always talk about college and what is it you might want to do. And the first thing out of Julian's mouth was, man, I can't wait, I'm going to, I'm leaving, I'm going to go to college, I go really? Do you think it's a party? Well, a lot of kids, too.

The grades you have right now, son, you might not get in. So let me tell you, you know I was an educational consultant. I had my own business for 35 years. I spent a lot of time talking to teenagers about career paths. I just try to figure out what it is that they like. I would highly recommend doing something you enjoy that you're interested in. Right. But here's the deal.

The ideal situation is to find a job that you love because then going to work isn't going to work. It's a joy. but not everyone has that luxury. I think college courses are going to look different. I think that the way you get jobs are going to look different just the way people find partners today. You know, they don't meet them at bars as much. It's online.

I think career paths, what I always say to kids is try to find something you love. But I also think, thankfully I'm retired, but still some people call me and say, you know, my kids, just don't know what they're doing. They're not sure what to major and they're not sure to go to college. Don't you think that's a lot of pressure when they're undecided? They don't know what they want to do.

Hey, everyone. It's me, Katie Couric. Did you know that I recently joined Substack? It's where I'll be sharing my unfiltered conversations with the people everyone's talking about. Journalists breaking news, politicians making it, actors we can't stop watching, experts, and a few unexpected voices who just might change the way you see the world. I'll also share what I'm reading, what I'm watching, what's making me roll my eyes, and what's giving me hope. It's a little news, a little opinion, and yes, the occasional curse word, because let's face it, have you seen the headlines lately?

So if you like smart takes, deep dives, and are also thinking, WTF is happening, search Katie Couric on Substack and hit subscribe. All of my interviews and articles are free to help every. everyone stay informed. But if you want to join the group chat and hear my hottest takes, well, that's for premium users only. It's going to be so much fun. I can't wait to see you there. Again, search Katie Couric on Substack and hit subscribe. Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro, host of the hit podcast Family Secrets. We were in the car, like a rolling stone came on, and he said, there's a line in there about your mother. And I said, what? What I would do if I didn't feel, like I was being accepted, is choose an identity that other people can't have. I knew something had happened to me in the middle of the night, but I couldn't hold on to what had happened.

These are just a few of the moving and important stories I'll be holding space for on my upcoming 13th season of Family Secrets. Whether you've been on this journey with me from season one or just joining the Family Secrets family, we're so happy to have you with us. I'll dive deep into the incredible power of secrets, the ones that shape our identities, test our relationships, and ultimately reveal who we truly are. Listen to Family Secrets on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm I'm Yvalongoria, and I'm Mytego, Mr. Juan.

And on our podcast, Hungry for History, we mix two of our favorite things, food and history. Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells, and they called these Ostercon, to vote politicians into exile. So our word ostracize is related to the word oyster. No way. Bring back the Ostercon. And because we've got a very Mikaasa esucasa kind of vibe on our show, friends always stop by. Pretty much every entry into this side of the planet was through the Gulf of Mexico. America.

No, the America. The Gulf of Mexico, continue to be forever and ever, it blows me away how progressive Mexico was in this moment. They had land reform,

they had labor rights, they had education rights. Mustard seeds were so valuable to the ancient Egyptians that they used to place them in their tombs for the afterlife. Listen to Hungry for History as part of the

My Cultura Podcast Network, available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Decoding Women's Health. I'm Dr. Elizabeth Pointer, chair of women's health and gynecology at the Adria Health Institute in New York City. On this show, I'll be talking to top researchers and top clinicians, asking them your burning questions and bringing that information about women's health and midlife directly to you. A hundred percent of women go

through menopause. It can be such a struggle for our quality of life, but even if it's natural, why should we suffer through it? The types of symptoms that people talk about is forgetting everything, I never used to forget things. They're concerned that, one, they have dementia, and the other one is, do I have ADHD? There is unprecedented promise with regard to cannabis and cannabinoids,

to sleep better, to have less pain, to have better mood, and also to have better day-to-day life. Listen to Decoding Women's Health with Dr. Elizabeth Pointer on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening now. Michael Lewis here. My book, The Big Short, tells the story of the build-up and burst of the U.S. housing market back in 2008.

It follows a few unlikely, but lucky people who saw the real estate market for the black hole it would become and eventually made billions of dollars from that perception. It was like feeding the monster, said Isman. We fed the monster until it blew up. The monster was exploding. Yet on the streets of Manhattan, there was no sign anything important had just happened. Now, 15 years after the Big Short's original release, and a decade after it became an Academy Award-winning movie, I've recorded an audiobook edition for the very first time.

The Big Short Story, what it means when people start betting against the market, and who really pays for an unchecked financial system, is as relevant today as it's ever been, offering invaluable insight into the current economy and also today's politics. Get the big short now at pushkin.fm slash audiobooks or wherever audio books are sold. You know what I really think? The big decisions that kids have to make are being foisted upon them way too early in life. I think that in today's world, we need. to give grace to teenagers. The world is evolving at a much quicker pace than it did for us.

And kids need a little bit more time as young adults to figure out their paths. So at what stage are you talking? Like high school? You don't start talking in high school about what you might want to do so you can study for it. And you go to what I don't think you know. I don't think so you just take your core subjects. Is that what you're saying? I believe in very experiences. I think I'm not saying, you know, every summer send them to Europe on a vacation. I'm not saying that.

I think that kids, I think, let me back up. I think adults have the best chance of making good decisions if as children and teenagers, they're given the opportunity to think

problems through, assess situations, and try to make a good decision for the moment. Some teenagers can't think that problem. That's where it's our job to help them. That's where it's our job to help them. And, you know what? If they share it with you. Well, that's true. There's very few big decisions in life that are not irreversible. That is my belief. You know, and so I think fear stops a lot of people from making big decisions, whether, I mean, we started out with cosmetic surgery. And then moved on to divorce, job changes. I think that it's okay to say I made a mistake. I learned

from it. I'm going to pivot from here and I'm going to do something different. And I think the sooner kids realize, kids, young adults realize it's okay. We're not looking for perfection here. And I think that's why there's so much stress among young people today. They feel, like you just said, let's talk in high school, figure out your path, trade school. No, no, no. What is it you want to do? I can prove you're right because so many people that would assist me in cosmetology, okay, in the salon, you couldn't get your own chair until you worked under somebody for two years.

And I would watch them and listen to them and teach them. and you know how many picked the wrong thing after their parents paid and it's not cheap to do that either they go I don't want to do this right but you know what that made you want to in the first place though try to get out of them what and she's a dental hygienist or assistant now or something and other people come to us from doing corporate world jobs and said oh my gosh I cannot take the corporate world I am too free, if you will, freelance kind of person. In my world, that's how we were. So that world fit better and you're more successful because you get to be who you are.

And that's a good point, Kathy. Yeah. Well, and I do think, you know, as parents, that's something I hope to instill in my grandchildren. Again, big decisions now look different. I talk to my granddaughter all the time about reading and how, just for an example, how reading takes you into your imagination. You go to visit places you might never see, but reading opens up worlds to you.

Can you tell I was an educator? Reading opens up worlds to you that you might never see otherwise. And I feel like if we as kids can, sorry, if we as parents and grandparents can offer experiences and teach our kids that big decisions are not always made the first time around. You're right. You're right. Sometimes it takes you a couple times. You see me put my finger on my nose, Kath, because I didn't want to interrupt. I don't know about you guys out there listening, but has anyone ever told you, you know, when you're speaking or somebody, you're having a conversation like Kathy and I are, and you don't want to interrupt and a thought comes in your head? How many of us just blurted out and interrupt? But I always had a reason for that because I would forget what I was going to say. Well, one, I guess it was about the year. a half two years ago maybe longer somebody said to me susan when you have that thought

put your finger on the tip of your nose so i'm walking around my finger of my nose nine times out of ten what's your big thought it works now i'm going to forget because i just explained it and that's and that is case important by kathy and if one of your children older children married children decided that they're thinking about ending their marriage and they came to you for advice my son did what's your question i don't think you were crazy about that first wife so that's a no-brainer but what kind of conversation and what help how did you help him make a decision not that you would be the deciding factor but well you're right actually when kyle got divorced he came to me and it was a fet accompli he had decided to get

divorced and you're right and he was just telling you or is he asking your opinion he but we have talked about marriage i've talked to my kids about marriage before they got married i talked to my daughter a lot now about the mistakes i made in my now you're going to make me cry i talk about the mistakes i made in my marriage that i can't fix because he's gone and i talked to her about again you know, the biggest decision that I, when I'm talking to my kids, the biggest decision I say to them is think about, is this really that important? So that's what I say to them. I try to guide them to think, not, I, let me back up. I don't tell them what to do anymore. I try not to. I try to give them. But in your head, do you feel a certain way? Like if you felt a certain way, would you let

it be known like I don't think what I I don't I what I try to do is say I'm making it up I'll just use my daughter Caitlin who has a fabulous husband and I love him and they're happy he's he's he's better than a good guy he's but even if we love somebody that's right they might struggle with something and so I would I would tell my daughter to help her make that decision ultimately it's her decision but i would try to hold up a mirror to her of what she's saying what i'm hearing her say what what are the issues in other words i would try to get her to talk about it if that were the case there i go again sorry i just put my finger on my nose that was a very very good point again in a different world yeah when i just what did you just say oh my gosh people try to talk to my

daughter about asking her questions as opposed to telling her what to do and my i remember going to my dad and crying saying dad i'm not happy i am not happy and he would give me no advice one way or the other because you know he loved dicky and my kids and me and he said susan is the grass greener on the other side are you going through something like to make me think like you just said you held a mirror to her and that's when i put my finger on my nose because my clients if you were my guest that will come to me and tell me what they want with their hair okay right right and i would repeat it back to them and they go no that's not what i mean i said well that's what i heard right so you're right on the money by making her listen to herself. Right. And I think in the end, we all have big decisions to make in life. We all do. And I think we all have to accept. Sometimes we make the right one. Sometimes we make the wrong decision. And sometimes we don't know. We make a decision and we hope for the best and we take the path that we think will lead us to where we want to go. But you know what? There's no way to know. Sometimes you have to pivot. Sometimes you make a bit. Sometimes you make a bit. Sometimes you make.

the wrong choice and that's okay the biggest thing is picking up the pieces moving on and making the next best choice you can i'll tell you what i do make the wrong decision always wearing the cool ass shoes that hurt all night long it was a bad choice wait i love you we're having this serious podcast about i have to light that up man holiday time and susan's susan's talking about should she part her hair on the left or the right. Yeah, did you notice? I went the other way today. It's about the shoes, Kathy. I mean, when life comes down to shoes. I mean, shoes, I mean, shoes, hair and makeup. Is there really any other conversation? And facelifts. And nip tuck. Wait, I always wanted to get a tummy tuck and he won't give me one.

Yeah, well. He won't not do it. You don't have skin? I said, but it's big. He goes, stop eating. And that is the big decision, Susan. Stop eating. Look, this has been too much fun. But that's going to do it for this episode of Bachelor's Happy Hour's Golden Hour. And please, let us know what you think about this talk today. I'm sure people have their opinions and decisions that they're making. And you know what? Thank you so much all for joining us again. And make sure to follow us on Bachelor Happy Hour as we have new episodes coming out every week

and you don't want to miss them. That's right. And the big decision we want you to make this week is to submit your questions to us. All you got to do is go to bachelornation.com slash golden hour or hit us up on social at Bachelor Happy Hour. Absolutely. Listen. I know he has a reputation, but it's going to catch up to him.

Gabe Ortiz is a cop. His brother, Larry, a mystery Gabe didn't want to solve until it was too late. He was the head of this gang. You're going to push that line for the cause? Took us under his wing and showed us the game, as they call it. When Larry's killed, Game Must Untangle the Dangerous Past, one that could destroy everything he thought he knew. Listen to the Brothers Ortiz on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone, it's me, Katie Couric. Did you know that I recently joined Substack? Very exciting. It's where I'll be sharing my unfiltered conversations with the people everyone's talking about. I'll also tell you what I'm reading, what I'm watching, what's making me crazy and what's giving me hope.

If you like deep dives, hot takes, and real talk, you're in the right place. Search Katie Couric on Substack and hit subscribe. I'll be there reporting live, most likely, in my pajamas. See you there. I'm Robert Smith, and this is Jacob Goldstein, and we used to host a show called Planet Money. And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History about the best ideas and people and businesses in history. and some of the worst people, horrible ideas, and destructive companies in the history of business.

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