Bachelor Happy Hour - LIVE from ‘Women Tell All,’ PLUS: Fantasy Suites

Episode Date: March 9, 2022

This week on “Bachelor Happy Hour,” we are LIVE from “Women Tell All,” PLUS we get Becca and Serena’s reactions to the shocking ending of this week’s Fantasy Suite episode.  After a wild night at “Women Tell All,” Becca sits down in person with this season’s most memorable women to further discuss everything we saw — and some things we didn’t — during their journey on “The Bachelor.” Then, Becca and Serena get together to share their thoughts on Susie’s abrupt exit and how they thought Clayton handled his most dramatic week yet as the Bachelor.  “Bachelor Happy Hour” has exclusive interviews every week. Watch “The Bachelor” on ABC and listen to “Bachelor Happy Hour” the next morning.  Don’t forget to rate and subscribe so you never miss an episode.  See omny.fm/listener for privacy information.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I have to say, I have never been more excited for this because this is the first time. We are live in over two years at The Women to All. And tonight we'll be talking to all of your favorites from Clayton's season. And boy, I have to take a breather because we have so much. to cover. It was a wild woman to Lal, and I cannot wait to get into it with some of our favorite people of the night. I'm so excited. We have you, Sarah, and you are obviously one of, well, not even one of, the only girl that I helped host a date for this year. I'm so excited to have you back. I mean, tonight was wild. It was, I'm sure, so much to take in. So how are you doing after everything

now that you've had some time to breathe? Yeah. I mean, it's very, I don't know how to describe other than just weird, you know, you, it's one thing to live it five months ago, and then at least for me, it's like I went back into my life, I moved on from it, made peace with things, so to have to come here and revisit tough situations and, you know, put myself back in my old shoes to be able to speak about it. It was hard, emotionally exhausting, but I think it was necessary for me to be able to provide a little more truth to a lot of situations and provide a lot of context that people might not have seen on the show in regards to my journey.

So, yeah, I made it a challenge to come in with no expectations of anyone else but myself. As you can tell from knowing me and seeing me on the season, I'm a lot more self-spoken and pretty conflict adverse and have trouble kind of standing up for myself and speaking up when false narratives are getting thrown around and I think I did a poor job of doing that on the show so I wanted to take this opportunity to push myself to do that so yeah so I want to ask you because obviously there was so much that was said tonight but yeah I mean there was so much being said between like your truth and what the other women were saying so hearing some of the words back of like what they had to say to you for instance like Hunter and Genevieve you know you

had your response at that point, but is there anything more you wished you could have said to them in that moment? I mean, what I want to say and what I was trying to say is that the only people I ever shared directly any details with, or my two closest friends, which were Rachel and Teddy. So other people saying that they've heard this or that is through the grapevine, because I only ever shared intimate details with my closest friends. Certainly wasn't going around the house sharing these things. In regards to just, oh, how did your date go? What happened here and there?

Like, yeah, we all shared that. But it was pretty generic stuff and nothing that I would take offense to if anyone shared with me because I did. So I want to ask you this. And I have to take myself back to my time when I was on The Bachelor on Ari season. And so for my scenario, I was the very first girl to get the one-on-one date. You know, obviously came back. There's a house full of women asking me what happened, what I did, everything.

And then the next day, and I was very forthcoming. You know, I explained what went on. And then the next day, another woman went on the date. And when we confronted her of like, what did you do, you know, how did it go, anything like that, she gave us nothing. And I remember at that point, the group of women were very upset. They're like, why are you being so secretive? You're not telling us anything. Now, you know, fast forward to years later.

The women feel like you're more forthcoming. Do you feel like there's like a line you could have towed in between those two scenarios to like try to appease more people and not offend anyone or make them feel uncomfortable? Yeah. I mean, totally. And I think it, I found myself in a situation of like, damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of thing. It's exactly like you said, it's like if you, you know, especially for someone like me who's a little more soft spoken, it's like, you know, constantly people being like, share, share, share, open up. So then it's like you open up and you share just the facts and then you get scolded for sharing too much.

So then you digress and you don't speak at all. And then it's like, why are you being standoffish? Why aren't you speaking? And then it's like, oh, well then what if I just talk about all my insecure? and all the negative things going on. And then it's like, oh, shut up, you don't have any right to feel that way. You can't feel that way. Like, don't you see your connection, all that kind of stuff.

So it's like I tried to run the gamut of all different styles of communication with my friends. And it just felt like at a certain point, the only thing that was going to appease them is if I went home. Because like I mentioned tonight, it's like, when, And I was accused of sharing too much. I immediately just stopped speaking. And then it was like, why aren't you speaking to anyone? So it was just like they continuously had an issue. And of course, when I brought it up and said, you know, took accountability for it and

apologized for it and said, okay, we're not sharing anything moving forward. It's kind of like what else do you want for me? Like immediately when you shared with me that this was an issue, I took accountability, apologized, and committed to not doing me. it anymore. And then it was like, oh, that's not good enough. Unless you go home, we're still going to make this a problem. And that's what it felt like. And what was really the most hurtful is that truthfully, I wasn't doing anything different than anyone else was. I know very intimate details about many of the other girls' dates, conversations, etc. But I didn't use it as a weapon

against them. I didn't take offense to it because I knew how to compartmentalize my relationship from theirs and you know it's like I could have come out of the gate saying that they said this and that and that made me feel insecure but I didn't and I still choose not to because I don't believe in fighting fire with fire but you know all I'll say is anything I said was reciprocated to me and more so again in my eyes anything I was sharing wasn't shouldn't have been like that significant because the things that were being shared by other people were even much more so. I could go on.

I mean, there was so much that we talked about tonight and so much that you and I personally did not talk about. We will get to that point at some point. But I hope that after everything, you can just go home, relax, have a glass of wine, take care of yourself. But thank you for opening up and being here with us once again tonight.

I appreciate it. Thank you for having me. Take care. Yes, you too. Teddy, hi. I first have to ask, how are you after this crazy night? It was a crazy night. I'm so happy to find me. It was a crazy night. I think I think girls that usually were quiet thought that like this is their time to go. And they did. And like I love that for

them. Okay. I'm so glad you said that because I feel like we always stay every year after all of the tellals. It's like the men or the women's time. Like the women who were so vocal in the house on the show. Yeah. I felt like sat back and then the women who were so quiet usually. I'm like, where did your voice come from? Yeah. It was wild. I want to get into you. I want to get into you. And I actually had a question for you, like the night Clayton sent you home because I don't think any of us viewers were expecting it. And it kind of seemed like such an abrupt goodbye, right? Yes. Like very unexpected, obviously for you. I can't even imagine like, I mean, I know being in your state of like, what do I do? What do I say? So looking back now, do you wish you would have asked

him anything or had more of a deep conversation with him about like the goodbye? Yeah. I think in that moment. I was shocked. Like I thought he was for sure meeting my family that next week. So I didn't ask anything. Right. So I regretted that for a while of just not getting that closure that I needed. I did on my own find it myself. And I think honestly watching the show and seeing his other relationships was closure in itself. But I do wish that I would have taken more time for myself and ask things that were good for me. I think I just felt bad putting him on the spot. But I need to start thinking more of like what I deserved. And like I deserved to ask those questions. and maybe make it feel uncomfortable.

Yeah. Well, listen, I get it because I was broken up with very abruptly. I had no idea I was coming. And in that moment, I kind of like shut down and tried to protect myself. Totally. You know, years later now in hindsight, I'm like, I wish I would have asked that or said this or said whatever it might be. One thing that you had mentioned, though, is like he made it seem like you were going to

be going to hometowns. Obviously, that was not the case. So, like, where do you think that shift was in him of like, Yeah. Yeah. I think part of it was he put us on the back burner. I think he felt so strongly about us that he kind of wanted to get to know the other girls more. So our one-on-one came so late. And I think at that point, I was pulling away because I just, I didn't understand why he was being so verbally validating, but his actions were not matching that by giving me the one-on-one. And like the girls that got them before me were so deserving of them. But I just felt like

it wasn't matching up with what he was telling me. So I think it just honestly just became too late for us. I think during my one-on-one, the other girls were telling them that they're falling in love with them. So we just were not on an equal playing field. Okay. So much has happened. And obviously, so much more is to come. I'm sure you're still healing from the breakup and everything that we started on tonight. But there's this little thing called Paradise. It happens in a few months. On the beaches of Mexico. I mean, could we expect to see you there? I mean, after saying your love story, I feel like I have to go. Hell yeah. Give me a high-five for that.

Listen, from somebody who never thought that they would go and I like poo-poot it for so long, I would say like, hell yeah. And I loved watching you. Like a perfect relationship. Well, thank you. Well, it wasn't perfect on the beach, but now it is. Yeah, I've seen your social media. Is there anyone that might catch your eye on that beach? I will say I didn't see Michelle season. So I'm a little bit behind on that. I think there was so many amazing men though on her season um i think at andrew spencer okay cute so well he'll be on um bachelor live on stage with me very soon so i'll see how we like him if he's a good fit for you let me know yeah i want to ask you though you drive the bombshell to well you didn't jessie did

about clinton's brother dm and you yeah do you have any plans to respond or it's just no no it's shut door no i want echoed was enough for me i think but it was a nice message like it wasn't aggressive or anything. It was a harmless message. But you don't really text your brother's ex-girlfriends. Oh, I get it. It'd be very weird. If my ex's brother's message me, I'd be like, thanks. Excuse me, you have the wrong number. Yeah, exactly. Well, Teddy, it has been such a pleasure. Thank you. I can't wait to seeing it to know more of you. Thank you. Um, okay, Serene, I have to start this off because I'm so excited to have you on. I don't know if you listen to Bachelor Happy Hour, but my co-host, Serena and I always talk about you. You have like

topped the charts for her fashion takeover every week. Have you heard about this? I've heard a little and every time I'm like, oh my goodness, me. Okay. Well, okay. No, you are so put together all the time between like the clothes and the accessories and the makeup, everything. It's perfect. It's flawless. So I have to ask you this to my first question. And this isn't even something that they wrote for me. It's something that I have to ask you. But if I give you my credit card, can you style me? Of course. Can you just like buy what you need to buy and then help me. I would have a good time. I would have a good time. And like honestly, like your outfit is killer. Like shoes and everything. Okay. Very style. But no, who is paying you under the table right now? No. You look great. Thank you. I appreciate it. Um, okay, I want to get into

tonight because so much went down. It was wild. First off, how are you doing? Can you feel like you can like breathe and relax after all that? Absolutely. It feels like a weight lifted, you know, having like seen, you know, I break up and everything. Yeah. I was like really nervous for that. And so, you know, with all of that and then like all the crazy drama and stuff, it's just nice that it's like, ah, close the chapter. Yeah, close the chapter. Yes. For sure. Good. Good. Okay. Um, because it seemed like when Clayton said goodbye, it was very abrupt. Obviously, I'm sure it was hard because you laid so much out there for him. In that goodbye, is there anything more that you wished you two would talked about that you would have said because again it seemed so fast and abrupt and I was like

what you just said goodbye and you're putting her into the car to go I mean we did we did have a conversation and I was just so stunned at the time yeah like I was so shocked and you know I hadn't had any conversation that were negative at all right with him and so it was just like a strange experience I wasn't expecting it at the time and so it was really strange watching it back for that reason too because I'm like hearing and seeing things that like I was a little stunned for right a little like blacked out just show I listen if you're talking to anyone about blacking up moments on TV you have come to the queen because I get it like there's so much to take in and especially when you're not expecting it it's like what are you saying what do you ask in those

moments like there's nothing really that he can give back to you so do you feel like I mean now that you've had a chance to see him tonight like did he give you anymore? Do you feel like there's more closure there for you? Yeah, for sure. I definitely, I found my own closure just because I felt like, you know, this is going to be shocking. Like, I'm going to have to move past this. Yeah. And I was just like, you know, it's just not my person.

Like someone is going to choose me, pick me first one day. And that's what I'm, like, looking forward to. And it was really hard to accept that at the time. But, you know, tonight he did talk about, you know, our breakup and, you know, how he, you know, how he wished he would have said a little more, you know. So it was really good to hear that from him just because I wasn't expecting it. Of course, I was really stunned, but, you know, maybe he felt comfortable with, you know, what was said at the time.

So I really appreciated that from him. Yeah. Do you wish now looking back, and obviously hindsight is 2020, it's easy to say at this point, but during your hometown, you said you were falling in love with him and you expressed so much and he can only give you so much back as the lead, but now do you wish you would have kept the cards a little bit closer to you? Honestly, no. Like, I,

one thing that we talked about that we both really valued was transparency. We had this, like, little joke where he was like, you know, for a while there, I didn't know if you were into me. And I was like, oh, that can never, I don't want you to not know where I'm at. Yeah. As funny as it was, like, I really wanted to feel like I had done and said everything, like true to myself and at the time that's what I was feeling you know right I was in love with him and I was you know when you start feeling those things you're like excited to share them maybe a

little scared maybe a little scared but like I wanted to leave it all out there and so that's what I did yeah you did and he did it in such like a graceful elegant way I mean I think everyone felt for you in those moments when he said goodbye I just wish we would have seen more like I wanted him to give more to you in that moment because you deserved it but there's so much more on the horizon what can we expect anything in the future maybe like a beach in paradise oh my goodness i i have no clue what the future holds and that's so exciting you know i'm just looking forward to finding that person that will choose me first yeah even in the room of the most beautiful women so i okay you are one of the most beautiful okay don't sell yourself short

well thank you i just i just mean like you know that's a that's a tough room to be in and um i i just want someone at the end of the day that'll look at me and be like oh my goodness like i can't let her go and so that's what i'm excited for and looking for and so honestly i'm just excited for you know whatever opportunities may rise well that is the mentality to have i can't wait to see more of you it has been such an absolute pleasure watching you and again i don't know what we're going to do without you on Bachelor Happy Hour because Serena has raved about your outfit choices every week. So we might have to like pull you out of the vault. I'm freaking out right now. No, no, no. No, I love to listen to you guys talk about the outfits too. And you guys

are so detailed. Well, she, well, not me. I do not pay attention to detail, but you always throw some spice in there. But I know some, well, she's made me at my game. But like, honestly, every time you've been so stunning like from head to toe like even for someone I don't even pay attention to like lipstick color and I'm like wow serene pulled it off it looked so good but it has been such a pleasure watching you we did not get enough of you so you know who knows one day I'm selfishly going to say we'll see you in paradise but thank you for coming to bachelor happy hour I appreciate well Genevue I have to say I saw tonight I was like wait does Genevieve and Sarah have the same dress in a different color I did notice and then I was like okay

how can I fuck with the fans to like pretend I'm doing a gender reveal where I like get both the girls with me and be like what one is it but then I was like I can't I can't people would just run wild with it so I couldn't I couldn't that be good thank you the first time I've ever paid attention to anything um okay tonight was a lot yeah you obviously had so much emotion and so much to say with everything that went down especially with cheney but like overall how are you doing And how are you feeling in this moment? Honestly, I feel very good. I got everything off my chest that I mean, even on the show, I just said it.

I always said everything I was thinking. I never held back. But I really did not hold back at all. And I'm very glad that all the other women also really spoke up. They all used a voice. And I think everyone kind of said what they've been wanting to say since leaving. Yeah. Okay, I have to ask you, you had a hot seat.

It was like another two-on-one tonight between, You and Cheney, how is that? It was great, honestly. Was it? I loved it because I just like, I just feel like she has nothing to say. Like she just has, she can't defend herself. So being up there was just like another two on one. And it felt good because.

Well, I was going to ask you, because obviously, like, when you've watched tellalls before, you always see just the one person in the hot seat. I don't, I can't recall. And I could be wrong, but I can't remember seeing two people. Like, did you expect that? I'm sure you knew coming in, people would have words with Cheney and have a lot to say about that. But did you expect to be called on stage with just the two of you again? I did not expect that at all when Cheney went up there.

I mean, I was just expecting it to be Cheney and all of us to be kind of just talking. And then when they called me, I mean, I was like, whoa. But I was, it's fine. I was excited to go up there. And, I mean, I don't think she, she still didn't apologize and still didn't do anything that she should have done. Yeah. Well, I have to say I missed some of the beginning. I was a little late, unfortunately. Fashionably late. Fashionably late. But I got filled in and it seemed like there was just so much going on. And then obviously, like towards the end, you could clear the air with Clayton. So how was seeing him again after being sent home, you know, I mean, at this point months ago? Honestly, it was, it was nice to see Clayton. We ended it on a good term. Like it was mutual. We both, there were no hard feelings. at least for me, I don't think for him either. We just realized we weren't each other's person.

And, I mean, not everyone is men for each other. So seeing him, it was really nice. I gave him a hug, and it was just nice to see him again. I felt, I did feel for him because everyone was really, like, giving it to him. It was rough on him. He did, I would say he deserved it, and he really owned up to it. Like, he really, he apologized, and I think he did his, well, as he should have, like, could have done. Yeah. Well, that's the thing. Like every lead, their entire journey, and I hate to

say journey, but everyone's journey is so different. Like, no one can prep and know what to expect for this type of thing. And, you know, if you're a typical human being, you're not dating 30 plus people at the same time. So it's very wild. Clinton aside, there were some accusations thrown out tonight about me and Thomas's neighbor, Aaron Clancy. What's the deal with that? Not clear the air. Where did she come up with this? Let me clear the air. Um, she, I think she just got it because I had posted a picture. I saw him at a bar. It was like a bunch of bachelor people and like we just recognize each other and we said hi. Um, and my dumb ass posted a picture, stupid. And I think that's where she got that from because there's literally nothing else. I saw him. I met him that one time and that's

the only time I've ever seen him. Yeah. I did not kiss him. Nothing happened. So, that would be a good thing. I'm just going to say that. Oh, definitely a good thing. Oh my gosh. Like, no, that's so bad. She took that as I need. Erin was not in the past. No one. Okay. So you're free to roam the beaches of paradise.

I'm so free. Like, I have, there's no connection with anyone that like, yeah, no. And like you said, good thing. Nothing happened with Erin. That just would be a bad setup. We're good. Yeah. No, nothing.

And yeah, I'm like, it's funny because she's just been like replying to all his DMs and he messaged me and he said, is she actually this crazy? And I said, yeah. Welcome to the world of Petro Nation. Yeah, this is it. Okay, so speaking to Paradise, if you're wide open, who in your perfect world would you see walking down those steps? Honestly, it's hard for me because I just need to meet, like, I need personality. Like, I need to know someone's personality.

So I haven't met any, like, other than Erin, not one time. I haven't met anyone. So I don't really know. Okay, physical wise. Oh, gosh. Okay. anyone in bachelor nation the world is your oyster

jenny cute just kidding um uh Rick is cute oh Rick is cute we like Rick we like Rick a Bachelor happy hour I have to say came out of nowhere I don't know I just think he's cute um but like I really don't know

Aaron's cute like I'm going to just drink drink I wish I could do that too no you like you have so much ahead of you so much to look forward to you never know what's going to happen in this crazy crazy world after everything is said and done

is there anything between you and any of the women or Clayton himself anyone that you wish you would have said done etc be on the show or after honestly I think that I just was I can't really hold back my thoughts so like anything that I was feeling I said um so going back I really don't think I wish I wasn't in all the drama but like at the same time I chose to stick up for Elizabeth and kind of put myself in that I didn't know it would go on go like on as long as it did but yeah I guess I would just if I could do it over again I would try and stay out of the drama it's easier said than done but um I forgot your main question.

I forgot my main question, too. Just like any regrets or anything that you wish she would have said or not said, whatever may be. I honestly, there's nothing that I would take back saying. I think maybe, if anything, I would have just called Chanel out more and tried to get. But, like, there was no getting through to her. Like, I tried so many times to have her explain herself and just, like, have everyone listen and she just, she couldn't.

So I think I said everything that I wanted to, and there's nothing left that I have to say, I think. Well, we'll leave it at that. Bigger and better things to come. Yes. Genevieve, thank you for joining us on Bachelor Happy Hour twice now. I hope to see you more. Thank you.

And I love the dress. I love the blue and the blue and the baby pink between you and Sarah. Gender reveal, yeah. Did you guys know you were going to wear the same dress? You saw each other and you were like, well. You're like, oh, shit. Yeah. It's like my cook's telling you.

Good choice, good choice. Yeah. To start things off. I need you to hold out your hand. Close your eyes. I'm going to slip you something real good that's going to make you feel better tonight, okay? Is it Jopole?

It's Chafolet? You know me too well. I know you too well. I saw you looking a little down and I said, somebody get this man a damn burrito. I think this is the biggest I smile all night because I absolutely

I cannot say enough good things. Well, I saw you smile when Rodney came out. Rodney too. Rodney is a better surprise to a burmereo. What do we take? But the brito is the gift that keeps on giving. but Rodney also is pretty much a gift that keeps on giving as well. Truly, he's a good friend.

Speaking of Rodney, I was going to say, so him and I watch backstage together because we're here for Bachelor Live on stage, but he is the best friend, the best wingman. Like, so many times, I can't even count how many times he's like, can I just go out there and give him a hug? Like, can I just go get my boy? And I was like, Rodney, it'll come, it'll come.

He's been such a great support for me, somebody that, yeah, I didn't know a few months ago, but somebody that is extremely genuine. And listen, he's got the whole world ahead of him right now. And I'm excited to see where he takes things, but again, he's just a positive light that when he walks into a room, the room just completely lights up. And I think that's a testament to who he is. And, yeah, I mean, the second I saw him here, was not expected to see him today. And I went from being kind of in the dumps to just instantly smiling,

because it's people like that that you just have to be really grateful for because there's not many individuals like him out there. Well, and he was hyping you up and obviously he lived with you during Michelle's season day in and day out and got to know you, but he said like so many of the men

and women who know you support you and tonight was rough. Like I get it. The tell-alls are never easy. They're never fun. Of course it's going to be dramatic. But it seems like you got the brunt of so much of the women's anger and I don't know if it's because like they were just angry because

of all the drama but like overall do you feel like you were able to express enough to them of you know you were just trying to be you and and find your person and do this journey on your own terms and so apologetic for certain things like do you feel like you left it good and said everything that you had to say for the women yeah I'd say I think I was able to say 95% of what I wanted to uh the 5% where I was just giving an explanation because I was asked why I did certain things. There was a few times where the women spoke up and said, no, this, and they kind of riled them up and I realized, okay, you're trying to give an explanation, but it's coming across, I guess, as an excuse. And so I just pulled back at that point and realized it's not,

I do not want to try to excuse any of my behavior. I'm not trying to justify. I just want to be able to allow people to understand what was going on in my head. But there's also the point of when you just need to realize that offering explanation, it's going to just bring up more emotion and do more harm than good. And there were a few times tonight where that was a response I got and I did not want to go down that path and bring back that pain and have this be not a conductive conversation. So for me, I just took those moments to step back and realize don't go down that path, just move on. Right. Well, I think you've always been such a good job of recognizing your faults or your mishaps or where you maybe went wrong and you have no

issue of calling them out and you know falling on the sword one thing that stuck out to me uh when we first had you on bachelor happy hour weeks ago is you know you're very much like me or we like to talk right i get i get shut up contrary to what people see i guess welcome to the club but when you were coming on as the bachelor your family had said you know take a step back and listen, right? Like, ask the questions, but listen and just really take in everything that everyone's saying, what you did a great job of, especially those first few weeks. Do you know, wish though at any point you maybe stood up more and asked more direct questions

to the women to get to the bottom of the drama sooner? Yeah, absolutely. I think I could have asked more questions. That was one of the biggest lessons that I learned through this entire experience is what What is the power of asking one more question? How much farther would that have taken you? Could you have gotten to the other side of that entire conflict? Had you just asked the right question?

And that's something that I can absolutely do a better job of moving forward. Being in medical sales prior, that was a major, major talent that I think you have to have, is you have to go to ask the right questions. Not every question is a good one. Sometimes, yeah, I mean, those questions can elicit negative emotional responses that cause someone to shut down. And I now know as I look back at it all that I should have maybe shed more light on some of these these matters. Truthfully, I made the incorrect assumption that some of these areas of these areas of conflict were going to be able to be hashed out and and I wanted

to allow the women the ability to do that. I didn't want to step in as this macho man and say I'll take control. My whole hope is that you guys are intelligent, mature women and I want you to be able to try to solve this on your own. And then whenever that wasn't the case, then yeah, I had to step in. But I was so focused on trying to really focus on my journey and find my person and fall in love. And I definitely probably could have spent more time trying to address the conflict, but I was just so hyper-focused on establishing genuine connections that I probably didn't really give the attention to the conflict that I should have. Well, I feel like you're like me in a sense where, you know, you're at a certain age and you've

grown and if you've experienced other relationships between, you know, whether that's physical, sexual, or even friendships where you're like, you know, I hope this person's on my same level and I don't always have to address certain things at a certain point and call people out. Like you just hope that they're kind of there and they're being honest with you, which I feel like, watching back as a viewer, especially like in terms of the whole Chenet situation and everything that encompassed, like she was telling you one thing and you hope as a mature adult what she's telling you is true. Right? Do you feel like now in a sense you've kind of had to take a step back from that process and be like, wait, now I kind of have to question everyone more.

Is it kind of like this mind fuck, if you will? Yeah. Yeah, that's a really great way to put it. I, probably, you know, it's a fault of my own. I try to see the good and everybody. Unfortunately, in my life, I've dealt with a fair amount of manipulative people that I did not realize existed and were willing to go to the extent that they would go to to push their own agenda. And I think that was something that was very upsetting to see that people could fake tears, fake emotions, say one thing. but me and the other, you know, how do you read through that? I thought, Chenet did a phenomenal job of manipulating me. And then I watched this back, and I see her laughing about the fact that she fake cried and that she did such a good job of acting in that moment.

And I perceived that as real emotion. And when you see that, and then when you, that wasn't the only time where I felt that somebody was potentially trying to push their own agenda, as other conflict arose, I started to question the entire journey because I felt if I'm not seeing this and the other women are, what else am I not seeing? Right. And that became a really scary spot to fall into because then I started to question everybody and every single thing. Yeah. Do you feel like you ever got that back or are you still kind of at this point in that mentality of like, I don't know what's real, what's not, what's fake?

How do I call it the bullshit? Because I get it. I've been there too. That's a question I've asked myself almost every day since I've been off. It's so hard, when does the show end and when does reality begin? The show was real, but yeah, people came on this experience as I've seen to push their own path forward. And at the expense of me, they decided, hey, I don't, I'm not here for him, I'm here to do whatever with this platform. and I think there's always that fear in the back of your head

of did you steer clear of all that or is the show still ongoing? Is there still more that you're not aware of that's going to come to light? And I think that's the fear is in any other environment in real life you'd say why would this person feel the need to have to spend all this time doing what they're doing? But in this environment, I think a lot of individuals understand

that there's a lot that can come from this if they position themselves in the right spot. And I've learned that there's a fair amount of people that will do whatever it takes. And you just hope that you steer clear from all that. Yeah. Like I said, it's a mind fuck. And it's like this has been your life, right, for months now. And it's still going to be your life, whether you want it to or not for a little bit.

At this point in time, like, where are you at? I know you can't give anything away, but like, are you happy? Are you well? Are you excited for what's to come? Or are you just kind of like, I'm ready for it to be over and I'm stressed? All of the above. I think I'm nervous about the finale. I'm nervous to face those women. I don't think it's any surprise. I'm going to be remorseful. I'm going to not, you know, it's going to be very challenging to navigate those conversations because today I had, you know, I had connections with these women, but the ones that I'm going to now. see next are the ones that I have extremely strong connections with. And I just know that emotion is going to take over and it's really, really hard for me to feel that there's anything I can say to, you know, give a good answer for. It's just really, it's going to be really challenging. And so I know that I'm going to face a lot of criticism. I know I'm going to take a lot

of heat for all of it. And, but you know what, I should be held accountable for my actions. You know, it's going to, it's going to be tough. But I can always fall back on the fact that I did stick to my guns and I followed my heart and I have followed it all the way through. So if I can do that, then I can say I don't regret anything. Yeah. Just fortunately, sometimes following your heart is not, you don't come out the other side on skates. Well, and following your heart in front of millions of people, you'd ever come out on skathed, right? Like, it's the next couple of weeks will be crazy, wild, very, very tough.

but I hope ultimately worth it because at the end of the day, like I know you enough to know that you're just a kind, genuine guy. We all make mistakes, right? Like no one is perfect, but you do deserve to find that one person, that loyal, respectful, loving partner. And I hope you find it. I truly, truly do. I know it's been a hell of a ride and I'm so sorry with everything you've dealt with tonight. It was a lot. But hopefully in a few weeks, you can breathe easy and you can kick up your feet and know it's all worth it. And in the meantime, you have to be able to. to pull it to help you. Yeah. Oh, that burrito felt a little cold though. I think it needs to hit the microwave. We'll heat it up. We'll heat it up. What an absolute treat that has been talking to

all of our special guests. And I'm so happy that we were finally able to do it in person again. It has been far too long. I'm also excited that this part of Clayton's journey is behind him. And we can finally find out where his love story begins and ends. What is up, Bachelor Happy Hour listeners? It has been a wild, wild week in the world. World of Bachelor Nation. We of course had back-to-back episodes this week with the Women to All and now last night's fantasy suites. So there was no way we weren't going to get together and share all of our thoughts on everything that transpired. And I am truly so happy that we're doing this part two for this week's double episode event because, oh my God, Becca,

I have so much to say about last night's episode. Can we please just dive right into it? Oh, girl. Of course we can. We're just, we're not even going to, like, dip our toes in water. We're just going to go straight in. Of course, I filmed with the women during the tell all. So we, of course, couldn't miss fantasy suites because we've seen crazy shit happen, obviously, in past seasons. But this one, I don't think was something any of us expected. I truly don't even want to get into recapping Rachel or Gabby's fantasy suites because

they were so straightforward right like it was a love fest between both the women and clayton that we just have to get into susie and i know you have certain thoughts opinions comments on susy and the fashion this week so let's just dive right into the favorite fashion moments i have thoughts opinions how it takes on all of it my fight my favorite fashion moments is going to go to Susie. And I loved her day look. I loved her night look. I don't know if it's just because we saw her on her screen so much, but it was definitely my favorite. I don't know if she had a little help putting this outfit together. I don't know if it was maybe from her fashion date in Vienna, but it was gorgeous all around, definitely something a little more elevated than we've seen her

wearing. And I think it was definitely a statement goodbye look that she put on that night. Having watched Susie and just all the women's fashion all season, this look definitely stood out to me only because it was bolder, it was a little out of her color scheme, just across the board something that I would expect to see maybe on Serene, Sierra, Sierra maybe, a few of the women that go for like these boulder sexier. Eliza. It wasn't something I would have put in Susie's wheelhouse. especially with the matching green earring, an accessory I have yet to see on her yet,

which at this point in the season, all the women are repeating their accessories. So I could be wrong here. I'm going to preface it with I could be wrong. I would not be surprised, though, if someone, aka the stylist, style Susie, and Carrie. Our favorite angel, Carrie Putman. If you did it, you rocked it. If you did it, 10 to 10, it's one of my favorite looks of the exact

season and I will say if it was all Susie kudos to you too because it was stunning oh yeah Susie if you're listening to this amazing work this is your best look at the season and continue on this line with your fashion choices because it looked stunning. Let's get

into this overall not even the full date just that evening portion because that's where the juice juice all happened what are your thoughts overall because I know I have mine but I don't want to I don't want to rank too much right now.

I have so many thoughts. And look, we've had Susie on the podcast. I really adored her. And I've actually really liked for this whole season. But I personally, if we're going Team Susie, Team Clayton in this episode, I am a hundred and ten percent team Clayton and disagree with actually a lot of the things Susie was saying and doing in this episode. I had to stop and pause the episode so many times to just like yell at Joe about how frustrated I was. watching this all go down. But I think that Clayton handled himself really well. My biggest issue, I'll just give you my overlying issue and we can break it down from here. I wish if that was a

deal breaker, she had told him sooner. And my hot take is that it wasn't just that it came down to her feelings. Because I think if she was madly in love with Clayton and if she really saw a future with him, like she's been saying all season, there would have at least been more of a fight or a discussion in trying to see if that was something they could get past she's watched the show she knows how it works she knows what fancy sweets is this didn't come as a total blind side to her i don't know i'm getting heated already back and please take over no and to play off of your point there's a couple well there's a lot that goes into this right like she definitely if this was such a major issue she should have had that conversation with him prior to literally

right before getting the key to go into the fantasy suites. Like timing was not on her side because of her decision making. And she did have the worst state of Fantasy Sweet Week. She was going last. Yes, I understand that sucks. You're in your head constantly. But we've seen it before where she has snuck out and has made time to have a conversation with Clayton. Exhibit A, when she told him at the clock tower, she was falling in love with him.

and she planned that like little getaway she could have found time i think this week at any point just to let him know where she was like how much it was weighing on her that if he were to be intimate with another woman if you were to tell another woman he loved them she could have found that time to make that conversation because it seems like it was the most important conversation for her to have that's where i think she definitely messed up like you know i understand that you don't always have the right time. You don't always have the means to see the lead whenever you want. But also, there's

so much time between hometowns and your time on fantasy suites that that conversation could have happened. Yeah. And not even giving him like an ultimatum. But like, let's say hometowns or the week before hometowns, you know, she has an inclination. They have one of the

stronger connections and she might be making it there. Just saying hey, look, I know fantasy sweets are a little bit away. I don't even even know if you and I are going to be there. I hope we're going to be there. And if we are, I think it's important that you know that intimacy for me in a relationship is something I take really seriously. It's not casual for me. It's a big commitment, a connective experience. And I think it's important that you know for me if I'm there that I would feel really uncomfortable

with you exploring that with other women if it's going to be me and you at the end of this. Right. Well, and the whole thing is, too, in my mind, she was she was set to go last in the week but had she gone first and had this alone time this overnight with Clayton had this conversation maybe things would have changed and he had mentioned that he wished he would have known sooner but also maybe not because he still had three overall relationships to explore so that's where my holdup is is like just because now you asked him point blank have you slept with these other two women have you told them you loved them which also like at this point really is none of her business until they were like unless

she was like the last woman standing at the very end I'm like don't even touch that yeah there's separate relationships she did have the opportunity to still go into the fantasy suite overnight alone time with him and just talk to him it's not like she had to be intimate with him no one's writing these rules of like oh you have to have sex or you have to sleep together you have to hook up like you couldn't really use that time for whatever you want and she could have just used to talk more with him away from the lights and the camera and producers and everyone. And that's where I'm thinking, maybe she wasn't just that into him if she couldn't even, you know, allow herself that time, right?

Yeah. Well, the weird thing for me, and this is just my perception, is when Clayton said, I'm in love with you, overall, her attitude in this date, it almost like she sat down, having already decided that she was going home. Like, to me, she sat down in her energy, the way it was shown, exuded, I'm leaving at the end of this date.

Like, I'm not going to Fantasy Suites. Like, it looked like she had already made her decision without hearing even his answer to her question, which is, was very bizarre to me. Because she's claiming that it's based on the fact that he told her, yes, I slept with the other women. Yes, I'm in love with the other women, too. yet there was a very like cold disconnected reaction and I don't know Susie personally like maybe that's just how she takes shocking news but I just found her so disconnected even when he was saying like I have something to share with you like I am in love with you like her shock didn't there was no sign of like excitement or joy towards him when he said that it was very much almost like shoot like disappointment on her face and and to support her I've been in that same way where

I've gone into certain dates, certain nights already have had having my mind made up where because I do feel disconnected because I was like, I'm set. I know what I'm doing. I know it's right for me. I'm not going to waver, which doesn't always resonate well on TV then with viewers and with the other person. So I can see playing to playing off of, or like I can't even talk to add to your point of that. Like that's where I'm like, she probably did have her mind made up. She probably was set on going Which is why I have questions for her, because if she had her mind made up and were correct, then Clayton telling her, I slept with Gabby and Rachel. I'm in love with Gabby and Rachel also was not actually the deal breaker.

Because she didn't find that until she was sitting at the table, like, let's call it, 30 minutes into their dinner. Right. There's so much, so many random things that go into the set, we could keep going on and on about. one thing too that really stuck out to me was I had mentioned a little bit earlier was that when Clayton was talking to Susan he says oh my God I wish you would have told me this sooner I wish you would have had this conversation earlier in the week maybe I would have changed my approach that part was weird to me too because again like would he then have been doing a disservice to himself to the other women to the relationship because if he genuinely is

really truly falling for all through these women in different ways would he have just cut those other two relationships off had he known how she felt? Like I'm very interested to see had this week gone in a different order what would have happened because then I feel like if he was actually here doing what he was saying he was doing to be the bachelor and to explore every relationship to the end, why would you have changed it that much if you had such strong feelings for these two remaining women? Yeah, I agree. I think so too.

I think I think he's saying like things could have maybe gone different. but I don't think he's saying, like, I definitely would have done, I definitely wouldn't have done that if I'd known. I think he's just saying, like, this would have been information that I would have liked to have when I was making my decisions. I'm not, like, I think it's good to explore all the relationships personally. Like, I've never been the leads, so, like, I can't say, like, what I would or wouldn't have done.

But I think that it's important that you're exploring all three of your relationships to the fullest. And I think you know what you're signing up for to an extent as a contestant. when you're in that position. And I think that she kind of set him up for failure by not telling him how important that was to her. And then when it came down to it, saying, like, sorry, that was a deal breaker.

And, like, actually, it's over. I'm done. I'm leaving right now. Isn't it wild to think about rehashing past recent seasons? I feel like there's always something in this week during fantasy suites that, like, rocks the boat, rocks late. We saw it with, I mean, we saw it with back on Colton's

season we saw it with tasha when brendon left and said he wasn't ready to get engaged we saw it on katie's season when gregg left and who i don't even know who like a couple of the guys left like we just keep seeing this i'm like what is going on with the show where it's like this week is like the bomb drops and like everyone leaves and like chaos is stirred it's insane it's true how would you compare because i actually was talking to joe about this I'm curious to hear your take. I think a lot of people when they watch this episode are going to say, well, Maddie Pruitt did the same thing to Peter.

Personally, for me, I think there are two different situations. What do you think? Okay, remind me, Maddie left Peter. Maddie basically did the... And I could be wrong here. Like, if anyone's listening, they're like, those aren't the facts. Like, this is just from my memory off the top of my head. But I'm pretty certain Maddie was the third Fantasy Suite date.

it was like Victoria Fuller and Hannah Ann went first and she sat down and basically said almost the same thing Susie did where if you slept with the other women, I'm going to be very uncomfortable and I'm going to have a huge issue with it. She gave an ultimatum. Yes. But she stuck around and she, I think, had told him, like she was very open about her opinions on sex and relationship and how her faith played a role in that. which again like why are you waiting until this week to have that conversation i mean we saw teddy tell clayton earlier on weeks ago that she was still a virgin it's like why can't these conversations be taking place sooner i'm to be honest i don't see that much difference between susy and and mattie at all i think it's basically the same thing and i remember when we had when i was still doing

the podcast with rachel she had many opinions on that ultimatum of you know if you've done this or if you choose to do this, I'm leaving. It's like, but you know what this show is. Like if you're a fan of the show, which we know Susie's been watching for a while, you know how things work. You know that once you get to the last third week, you have three women left. You have three fantasy suites. It's like you can prepare yourself to know how you're going to, you know, try to enter into each week. And so that's what's bizarre to me is like that these keep happening this late in the game. Yeah, 100%. I think the only slight difference was, with Maddie might have been that she was pretty open about her faith and how that played a

role in her life throughout the show. Whereas for Susie, this just seemed to come really out of nowhere. And maybe they had this conversation and it wasn't shown. But I mean, Clayton even quoted Susie to her face saying, you told me to explore these other relationships. You told me that you wanted me to choose you at the end after exploring all these relationships to the fullest. So she's now kind of going back on her word it sounds like yeah i think it's just there's so much disconnects but i think also too what susie was hoping for was that like clayton could kind of just read her mind and know that if he felt so strongly for her he would back off on the other two relationships which again to her point of exploring everything would be doing a disservice to that so really bad bad

communication i'm very interested to see where this is going to go next week because the way it ended. Clayton flat outside, my heart's not in it, I'm over this, making it seem like this season is now a wrap, but, you know, if you're a lead, you can't just quit a season, you got to, you got to finish it out. Yeah, I mean, here's the thing. I think in that moment, it's hard. He's feeling a form of heartbreak and probably just feels completely blindsided, but he is in love with Rachel and Gabby too, apparently. So, we still have two full episodes left so there's still a lot to come i mean it's not over yet susie may be gone but it is not over yet it's gonna be that i just keep thinking of like when jessie palmer at the end

of women till all said you know i was there and i still don't know what happened i'm like this is going to be a crazy crazy finale i do want to ask you one thing though in terms of clayton and the final goodbye between him and susie i know that many people are going to have a lot of opinions on how he handled things and how Susie handled things. I feel like it will be a house divided very, very soon. In the way that Clayton handled that goodbye, though, do you think he did well? Do you think his actions were justified? Like, how do you think he did in that moment? I thought he did well. I actually really thought he did well. I feel like Susie's last comment of, I wish this could have been handled better with more kindness. I think that, I think,

think she was probably being a little idealistic going into that breakup, thinking that it was going to be smooth sailing and she was going to go home and they were going to hug and wish each other well. But I think I would have handled it somewhat similarly to Clayton. I think he was very direct. I don't think he was disrespectful. And I think what Susie wished is it could have been nicer and calmer, but I think that's not fair because she's the one breaking up with Clayton. And he has the right to question her and be angry and be frustrated, just as any normal human being feels when they're being broken up with. What did you think?

I mean, I definitely agree with that, but I also have to keep in mind, I've been on both sides. Like, I've been in Cleans' position where I've been broken up with and very, very shocked and blindsided where I didn't know how to react. And again, like, I mean, we all saw the breakup between me and Ari where I was just pissed and I was like, get the F out, get the F out. So I understand Clayton's approach to that because I was in his position. I was the same way.

And I also had been on the other side where I've been the one to break up and to end relationships with people. And you know, it's never, like, you never know how to prep for that. Like, you never know how to, like, handle somebody because you don't know what they're going to be feeling. And, like, I have to then think about, like, when I broke up with Thomas in Paradise, which doesn't even seem like a thing anymore. Because him and I are great now, like, he also was very upset and walked away.

And I was stuck in this position of like, okay, do I go after him and like try to explain myself more or do I let him go and, you know, be free and move on? Like, it's like this weird disconnect where like you're like, yeah, I was one doing this, but now I don't know what to do. And I feel terrible. Yeah, I don't relate to that. But yeah, I don't want to like invalidate anyone's feelings because what the other person is feeling is. very valid so 100%. I think the biggest issue with it for me at least was and like I actually

did have sympathy for Susie in this situation if I could tell she had made up her mind but also wanted to talk more and like I think she was trying to get it to a place where they could end on a positive note which like I can absolutely understand wanting that but I think Clayton was basically standing there like you've made up your mind there's no like fighting for this or convincing you otherwise so what is there more to say because you're not saying you're going to like talk this through and like work this through with me so he's probably thinking like I already feel I just sat here told you I was in love with you and then got broken up with in return like he's probably hurting and I think the best thing was for that convo to end because I think it only

could have gone downhill from there yeah and there's only so much you can say especially in that situation where she already did pretty much make up her mind and he knew that you're not going to want to stand outside in the freezing cold in iceland and keep saying the same thing over and over there's a point where you won't get anywhere it's not a good look for anyone and sometimes you just have to let bygones be bygones and go and so i think that's where he was at um and he also probably knew after this like oh shit i have a long night ahead of me of interviews and going through all of the emotions of a heartbreak and whatnot. So it'll be interesting to see where this goes next week.

I truly feel for Clayton in this moment. I know he's going to probably get a lot of backlash again, probably much more hate. But in this situation, I feel like he was very justified in feeling hurt and reacting in the way that he did. Yeah. I hope, I just hate that we watch this and have to think about the hate that they're going to get.

Because as much as, like, I had a lot of criticism for Susie in today's episode I still can have sympathy for the fact that like she was struggling and vulnerable and I don't necessarily agree with some of her choices that she made but like to think that she's potentially going to get so much hate and like angry, awful DMs and like

so will Clayton and just like a moment of pain and emotion and vulnerability that it's going to get aired on TV just just makes me sad that like that's a part of their journey yeah and I'm glad that you mentioned that too because I mean us as podcasters we have to look at this objectively and just give our opinions and that's what this is we're not speaking poorly of anyone and not trying to judge how they handle the situation

it's just giving our thoughts and feedback of you know if we were in that position how would we react what would we do and so again like this is i know for everyone watching yes it's a tv show but like this is real life for these people like clayton was hurting susy was hurting it was a rough week for both of them. And no one is perfect. No relationship is perfect. And so just go easy on everyone because ultimately at the end of this, everyone's just trying to find more of who they are and their person in life. And so just allow them to do that. It's like, you know, once the show is done, let it live there on the TV and not on your fingertips behind a phone screen. Yeah. If you want to talk shit about their breakup this week, call your mom, call your best friend, call your partner and vent on the phone.

Because imagine your breakup was filmed and aired on television. I'm sure people would have a lot to say about my behavior, about Becca's behavior, about, well, I mean, they did. They did. And about your behavior. So, yeah. It's a rough one. I mean, do you have any predictions for next week? Like, do you even have any idea of what to expect?

Yeah, let's do finale predictions. I feel like that's a fun way to end this off. So, Susie's gone. I don't know 100% if that's the last of her we're going to see or not. I mean, it felt like a very unfinished note to end on, but she also seemed very decided. So I think, you know, that could be she's on her way home. We still have Gabby and Rachel.

I think it's really going to come down to if Clayton says, screw it, it was Susie and I'm done with this whole thing, or if he's going to try to push through. I mean, we see Rachel and Gabby. They do seem really in love with him. I mean, he was screaming to them how much he loved them. So I would love to see him with someone at the end of this. I want him to find love.

And if it's not with Susie, then maybe Rachel or Gabby is his person. What I'm going to say is he left us with, I would say, some faith. And he basically said, you know, I have to have faith at the end of this, that it's all going to work out and that everything happens for a reason. So because he said that, I have to think he still ends up with one of these women. I have to say just based on what I'm seen as a viewer, I would skew towards Rachel and then I would selfishly want to say

I would love to see Gabby as Bachelorette. But who knows? Because I am always so damn wrong when it comes to this. I mean, I thought Rachel was like the frontrunner for a while now. So I was surprised when it was like, Susie, though, is my number one love. I was like, what? Yeah. I know after this episode,

I mean, he's, I would say, since the very beginning, I thought Rachel and Susie were going to, like, make it to the end. I kind of knew that. I didn't know where they stacked with each other. But after hearing Clayton talk about Susie, I felt like this week he was basically throwing his hands up being like, it's Susie. Susie. Susie was the one. Yeah. Obviously, she is no more. So I don't know.

I just, I also really feel bad at this point for Rachel and Gabby. or not i don't even want to say bad i don't want to pity them but i i can feel for how they're probably going to feel next week when clayton has this big reveal of hey i was intimate with both of you that's not going to be fun to hear we've already seen it in the teaser for next week so we know that that's going to happen i will say now to that clip makes so much more sense now having watched this episode like why because the whole season's like why would clayton do that why would he say that I don't understand so now the context kind of makes it all makes sense yeah totally because now he's like well if these other women are feeling like how susie felt they deserve to know before I get down on one knee so it'll be interesting I mean and especially things change in that last week so drastically when you bring your own family into the mix and they they see you interact with the last two people so we have a lot still to come I know we only have one week left, but it's going to be a lot. It's a two-day finale, live finale. But yeah, there we have it. Are both

days live? Mm-hmm. Whoa. Is that a first? Have we ever done that before? On R-A season, we did it, and it sucked. Yeah, I bet. Oh, my God, it was the worst. I was, I literally think I almost peed my pants backstage. I was so scared. So I know exactly what that feels like, but, you know, Serena, this is what we've all signed up for. Yeah, this is, we did it, Becca, and they're going to have to do too. I know. It's a rite of passage at this point. Yes. All right. Well, thank you for joining me this week. I know we had so much to talk about. We could have kept on talking about everything and dissecting it, but we don't have all that time. So thank you, Serena, for joining me. And a huge thank you to our Bachelor. Happy Hour listeners for being here. As a reminder, we are still casting for The Bachelor and Bachelor. So make sure

to head to bacheloration.com slash apply if you want to nominate either yourself or somebody great. Also, make sure to hit us up on social. You can follow us at at Bachelor Happy Hour on Instagram. And from there, you will find everything that you need to know to follow us on Twitter and TikTok. And don't forget that Bachelor Happy Hour is available on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen. And if you don't know, you can listen ad free by subscribing to Wendary Plus in Apple Podcasts or the Wondery app. Thank you, everyone, for listening this week. And we will see you next week for Clayton's finale.

I'll see you next week, Serena. Take care, everyone. Bye, Becca. Bye, everyone. I'm Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, host of the psychology podcast. Here's a clip from an upcoming conversation about how to be a better you. When you think about emotion regulation, you're not going to choose an adaptive strategy which is more effortful to use unless you think there's a good outcome.

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