Bachelor Happy Hour - Michael A. Talks Overcoming Tragedy and His Immediate Spark with Katie

Episode Date: June 22, 2021

Fan favorite Michael A. discusses why he decided to join “The Bachelorette” and how his parents and in-laws were actually the ones who helped convince him to do it. Michael also shares more about his heartbreaking past and the instant spark he felt with Katie when he stepped out of the limo on the first night. Plus, Michael talks about his emotional date with Katie and how he felt when she opened up to him about her past sexual trauma. Michael also explains why being on “The Bachelorette” was transformational for his mental health. Catherine Lowe co-hosts!   “Bachelor Happy Hour” has exclusive interviews every week. Watch “The Bachelorette” on ABC and listen to “Bachelor Happy Hour” the next morning. Learn more about The L4 Project at L4project.com. Don’t forget to rate and subscribe so you never miss an episode. See omny.fm/listener for privacy information.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Welcome back. Happy Hour listeners. As you all know, it has been a crazy week. And Tasha has been a very, very busy woman. So she's in a little vacay. She's taking a break.

She's kicking her feet up, hopefully relaxing. But don't worry, because we have my other favorite, Ms. Catherine Lowe back. So, Catherine, welcome. Thank you for joining us once again. How are you? Old hat. Old hat. No, this is, it was, I'm so glad to be talking about this episode with you and being able to speak to our guests today because I needed to talk to somebody about this. And to talk to the man of the hour is going to be awesome. So thanks for having me today. Yes. Well, thank you. I'm so glad to have you back. And I wouldn't say an old hat. I would just say you're a favorite hat. You know, you're like the one that you're our go-to. But yes, as you mentioned, our guest today is an incredible one. He is, I'm telling you guys right now, if you didn't already fall in love with him on last night's episode, you will do so today because we have Michael A himself. And, you know, I know every week we're supposed to be doing these full-blown recaps of the episodes, but quite honestly, there was so much that went down last night.

There was obviously so much drama that we saw. but Michael's story is one I think that hit everyone in our hearts and I really want to allow him the time to have this platform to talk more about what he's experienced, more about his time on the show and his past relationships and his life beyond this. So I really want to focus on that conversation. But that being said, if you want to get Katie Thurston side of everything and more info on, you know, what she's been experiencing this entire journey, but also on last night's date, She will be on talking it out with Brian and Mike this week. So please go check that out if you want to get, you know, another side.

But, Catherine, I just think we need to bring Michael on because he had such an incredible story. I think we should just bring him on. What do you think? Let's do it. Let's do it. Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, I think he's going to be one of our favorites of all time. Please welcome Michael A to Happy Hour.

Michael A, welcome to Bachelor Happy Hour. We are so excited to have you because you have been one of my personal favorites. I think you have been one of America's personal favorite contestants. And I want to preface this with, you know, we all know you go by Michael A, but for the purposes of this podcast, we'll drop the A for this. It'll pick back up once you're done. You know, but we don't need the A right now since you're the one and only man here. And I have to say, you are looking great.

You have this like post-bachelorette Globe going on. Oh, thank you. And good morning. and thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure. And yeah, what a crazy experience everything was. I'm just really excited to kind of get everything going. And, you know, obviously crazy episode.

It's going to be really fun to watch all these amazing memories. That feels like so long ago. Just once again, feel real. How is that bad for you? Because obviously, you lived it. It was a few months ago. So, you know, you've kind of now gone back to your daily. life. So how has it been knowing like what you went through versus actually watching it back now?

Yeah. It's it's really funny how life changes. You know, you can plan as much as possible, but sometimes, you know, life kind of takes the wheel. And for me, it's, I never applied for this. It was never something I had in my, you know, plan whatsoever. And producers reached out to me. And originally, when you go through this process, you've seen it unfold so many times over how many seasons. And at first, all I saw was really like downside risk. You know, that's just kind of how I, you know, think. And it was one of those things where it was, you know, 2019 was very difficult. 2020 was really difficult.

And it felt like a perfect time to, you know, bet on myself, take a risk, get outside of my box and try. try to find some ways to grow and find love and find kind of a missing, that missing piece in my life that's, you know, really so vital. Mm-hmm. Did someone sign you up? Like, did someone put you up? How did they find you? Yeah.

So they reached out to me via Instagram and, you know, producers reached out. And at first, really just downside risk didn't seem like it was, it was really something I had really hadn't thought about whatsoever. And as I started to give it a little bit more thought, it seemed like a perfect time to take some risk, better on myself, kind of get outside of the box. And crazy enough, I actually said no to it twice. Not because I didn't, you know, believe in it or one thing or the other. It was just, is this how I want to go about finding that missing piece. And I mean, it's such an absurd idea, but it's a, it's a really kind of beautiful thing too. Um, and I'm 37. So definitely like the old dude on the show. Um, you know,

there's, but I will say, our guys, the cast, they're amazing. Um, they're really some people with some good character that are out there. And it was, I wasn't the only one kind of, leading them. They were leading me throughout this whole entire thing because you need to you need to be able to have that kind of support. It's just a crazy experience. And I really can't wait to see how the whole season goes. Well, this, as it pertains to this past week's episode, it was like watching, like I'm glad that you say that these, you can see that there's a lot of good guys, but you were like a man amongst boys at some point. You, yeah, oh yeah, it was clear that you were eloquent. It was clear that you were vulnerable, that you were

mature, and that you knew what you wanted. I mean, I think at one point you said, and it wouldn't be, you know, like, I would leave if it wasn't enough for me because you have so much at stake and you have a lot waiting for you. But watching the episode and seeing you and your demeanor, but at also times, which was really funny, throughout the drama, what I witnessed was your facial expressions were really cute, because you were so unaware of drama and they show you like

looking around me like I don't know what's going on but very innocent it was very cute so anyway but you were a man amongst boys thank you so much I really didn't understand the drama most of the time

I'm you know part of it was that I don't know at this point in my life you really don't need to create problems for yourself. Life will give them to you and you adjust to them naturally. So not to say that there weren't significant issues that, you know, were brought up and things that needed to be addressed. But part of me is always like, why don't you just like say you're sorry and we can kind of move on on to the next thing. And it's really also very weird watching yourself on TV.

I mean, every time I'm on, one, kind of forget that I'm watching, you know, something that really unfolded, but I just want to hide. It's so strange. But yeah, and, you know, those guys that were on there, you know, I think it's easy to get caught up in the emotions of the moment. It's, you got to see the larger picture. Like, remember the reason why you're actually there. And I think part of it, too, is trying to find ways of being sympathetic to Katie and being at that post. There's a lot of emotions that go into it. And any sort of added level of emotion and negativity can have this rippling effect across the entire house and the entire experience. So we're not just reacting in responding to our own emotions and our own experience, but also have.

take into account other people's too, including cast and also most importantly, Katie. It was interesting because the date, I mean, really the whole episode was very vulnerable. It was very powerful and it was very deep. And what's interesting is that I saw the group date happen and they were breaking down walls and Katie had mentioned or she really divulged that she had a lack of consent and she was talking about a previous experience for her. And we notice in your date, you actually ask her very respectfully, can I kiss you? And to know that men, that didn't experience her vulnerability and what she was talking about, you didn't even see that. And you respectfully

asked her, can I kiss you? So do you have any advice for men out there on how to respect women and their boundaries and what they're you know willing to do in that space yeah i mean one watching it uh back entirely i forgot that i even said that i think it was a little bit of just habit and awkwardness but but i mean most importantly consents everything um i didn't want to read a situation wrong. I was the first time, so I really didn't know where she was standing, how she was feeling with me. I mean, from the time I got there up until, you know, the time we actually kissed for the first

time. We had spent some quality time together where I felt there was a connection. But then again, there's also all these other men who she has a connection with. So I didn't want to step kind of out of line. I wanted it to be mutual, not forced. And, yeah, I mean, consents. That's what you want anyways, you know? It's not a one-sided relationship.

It goes both ways. Well, that's where I think adding on to what Catherine said earlier is, like, you were shown as like such this kind, respectful man amongst, you know, boys with all this extra drama going down. And so that's why I think everyone looked at you and your date and your interaction with Katie with so much respect and admiration. It's like, you know, we watch and me as a single woman, I'm like, that's what I want. Like, that's the kind of person I want. Like, you are just a good person.

I want to go back to the connection with Katie because obviously, you know, this week we did see you get that one on one. But when you stepped out of the limo, like obviously there's kind of no expectations. You don't know who you're meeting. You don't know like what the vibe's going to be between you two. if there will be that connection. So did you feel that, you know, fresh out of the limo with Katie? And then did you going into your one-on-one date, like still feel that? Or were you still kind of like, I'm not too sure?

Like, how are you feeling like on your side of things? Because we, you know, we've heard Katie and her interviews and ITMs, but how are you feeling? Yeah. I remember telling myself that if I didn't feel that like necessary initial spark, that I really wouldn't waste time I think I mean anybody who's been in a bunch of relationships you can't force this thing it really is something where

you know that that real spark the first time you see somebody first time you interact with them that or that energy when words haven't even been spoken that's a piece that in my mind can't really be replicated and it's special you can learn to love somebody without that spark But at the same time, when you do have it, it really changes everything. And I remember telling myself, just because I have a four-year-old at home, I've got multiple

businesses, I operate, employees that kind of depend on me, that if it wasn't there, then it's okay. Like, I can leave. I don't need to, you know, waste her time, take away from others. But when I was in the limo, I've got, okay, I got a really funny story here. At least I think it's funny. So I'm sitting in the limo, and it's my turn to jump on out. The whole entire time I'm in the limo, I'm so not nervous.

I'm like, why am I not, like, sweating and nervous? Like, am I just playing it cool here? And then I get out of the limo. And one, you realize that you've seen this play out so many times. And now you're a part of it. So then the nerves start. coming. And, you know, me being the oldest guy on the show, I was like, oh, God. When I got out tons of, like, bright lights, I couldn't actually find her. I had no idea

with you. I hop out the limo, and I'm like, like, like this. I'm like, oh, my God, I'm totally playing into like this old dude scenario. I'm so senile. And I'm like, where are you? Like this? And then, you know, it was really kind of cute because Katie, you know, she said it like, hello, like over here. Speak louder, speak louder. And then I locked in and she looked incredible that night. And I felt the spark, which is what I was looking for the whole entire time. And then, you know, you're in the limo waiting and waiting and waiting. I start taking my first step tour.

and my pant leg had risen all the way up to like my cap. And I look down and I'm like, should I fix this? Should I just roll with it? Like roll up with her like full LL Cool J style. I'm like, I don't know. That's how it's going to work. So I just kind of like tried to shake it down. Then I get up there.

And, you know, she just immediately made you feel, you know, made me feel very welcome if she was very warm. and radiant and smiling. And it was really, really cold that day, too. Mm-hmm. So I, you could kind of tell

the girls were kind of shivering. So that was, it was not L.A. Like, what were used to? No, no, not at all.

West Coast people can't handle those midwest. I have a question because obviously you came in, and, you know, as we got to know this week, you have such a history.

You have such a story. It's like you have a son waiting for you at home. And as you mentioned, you know, you have employees, you have so much that like, you know, if this wasn't going to be right for you, if you didn't feel it, you were like, then I'm okay with coming home. Do you feel like then knowing all of that in the back of your mind, stepping out of the limo and actually saying yes to this journey in general, was it more pressure or less pressure? Because I feel like so many people come and they're like, you know, I'm going

to find my person and I want to get engaged and I want all of these things that we see play out season after season. And for you, did you feel like that was removed because you're like, I love my life. I have so much going on, so much waiting for me back home that like, would you say there was less pressure in that regard? Yeah, it's a really good point. I mean, I really wasn't playing for these, you know, week by week roses. Obviously, everything comes with its own stress after you get it. So my first thing was, like, I really hope that there's some sort of spark here because it's just exciting for my life. But then once you feel it, you're like, oh, God, now you feel invested. And you feel like now something can be taken away. And so, you know,

each, you know, each time Katie and I spoke, I always asked her, you know, questions maybe that maybe we're too quick to ask just because I wanted to get to know you know when her as a person but also what her goals were work like if this was an end goal

how our lives is going to actually like mesh together the logistics of it you know everything like it's not it's not that easy to just like have love to find it but two lives kind of have to intersect at a at the

right moment as well. And I feel like that's like such a great thing that The Bachelor does, because only like in this arena, can you say non-negotiables really quickly? Because that's like, what, six months down the road, you would say certain things like, well, what would happen is blah, blah, blah, blah. But you could say that day two and it's not that weird. And it's like, I don't want to waste your time. Let's not waste time. So I think that's such an interesting thing that The Bachelor does really well creates this environment to really have real talks because most of the time when you get off the show,

you don't live in the same city as that person. You all have no idea what their day-to-day looks like. So that is really good information to know on early so that you can decide if this is our right for either of you. Yeah, I mean, time is just, it's so important. You know, it's something I've just learned over, you know, the last 37 years and just with my own experience is, you know, you don't want to waste it. You have so many people that will come in and out of your life that are trying to

take your time in your pieces and, you know, depending on who you are, you know, you may want to give them out freely and you may want to protect them. You know, I'm somebody that happens to give back my time, but that also gets me in trouble a lot because there's like, well, there's none left for me. And so this whole experience was unbelievable because I was investing in myself. I blocked everything off. And I do think the Bachelorette allows you to focus on you for a little bit

and how you want to get better. And you discover stuff about yourself. And you also go into interviews and you start looking at maybe topics that normally would have gone unaddressed in the real world because, again, other people are demanding of your time. You've got other responsibilities. So they're, depending on how you use your time is always the most important. And I did have this really nice like mental health kind of break from it. Like who gets, who finds mental health on the Bachelor? Yeah. No, I've always said it's like going into the ITMs and the interviews and even the chats with with other

contestants it's like it becomes some sort of therapy it's like a lot of it can be very therapeutic for people because we're not always used to opening up and talking about our emotions and our feelings and divulging like these deep dark sides to us and so you know the show obviously yes there's drama but there's also some very beautiful breakthroughs and conversations that take place, which is obviously what we saw with you on your one-on-one with Katie. Yeah, there's a, there's a quote I loved, and it's this, it's kind of long, so stick with me here. But it's, it's wrong to expect a reward for your struggle. The reward is the act of struggle itself, not what you win.

And while we cannot expect to defeat the absurdity in the world, you must make an attempt. That's religion, that's art, that's life. Michael, you're giving me the chills. God, he's proving the marriage materials, just continuing. Yes. He is fully, yes, you are what every woman would want. Yeah, thank you. And, you know, I love that quote because sometimes people feel as though

just because you've struggled or you've gone through something hard, that you're entitled to something or rewarders or whatever. and you're looking at the end goal, that final kind of exchange and transaction. And there's a lot of reward in the process and in going through that. And The Bachelorette, my time there with Katie and everything, like none of that was really lost on me. I want to get into because there was so much that you did share with us during that night portion with Katie. And you shared some very personal, very touching details about your life and with your wife, Laura. So I have a two-part question because I want to give you the grounds to, you know, share anything that you want with us about Laura because she seems like an incredible person.

And like what you shared together, I'm sure, was something beautiful. And it's a story that we haven't necessarily seen play out on this before. And so I'm glad that your story and your history is being shown here on this place. platform. So I want to leave you the space to share anything that you want about her. But first I want to get into going into that evening. I mean, we saw you during the day that, you know, opened up more about your son with Katie. But going into that night, is it something that you had planned to share or were you more in the mindset of, you know, you know, if I'm, if this is feeling right in this moment to open up to Katie about this or like, how did you go into that evening? Like what was your mindset? How did you get there? that's a great question because i struggled with it so hard um i mean obviously we want to share stuff about our past it's who we are i mean it's a big part of it for me you know my kind of journey to get here is a little bit more maybe unorthodox than what others have experienced and so i remember like when i was uh you know speaking with katie and and everything i wanted to bring

it up it was like crawling out of me to get it off my chest because it's just a major major part but at the same time you want to make sure that you can do it justice you want to make sure that you have the right amount of time and at the same time it's not just about me too you also have to take into account it's an emotional night for katie and everybody that she's meeting and I didn't want to put too much on her where you know maybe she felt overwhelmed or things like that but yeah it was it was it was on me the entire time and I was just kind of being patient hoping that my time would come where I'd be able afforded the right amount of time with Katie to be able to go through some of these deeper issues and and I wanted to

see also how she responded I'm not somebody that just listens to words I look at body language. I mean, the eyes just, they don't lie. They just don't lie. You can, you can see exactly what someone's feeling when you look at them. So there's the, you know, the verbal and the nonverbal that I just, I wanted to see. And, you know, Katie was so accepting. It's, it's not as though I ever questioned her capacity to be able to handle this and a four-year-old and everything. But I just had to see it for the first time. probably felt like you couldn't get past like get to the next levels that you needed to in this without for sharing that with her. So I mean, thank you for opening up. Like I said, it's not

necessarily something that we've seen to this, you know, extent on the show. And I, like, I think your story is beautiful and it is what makes you you. And so I know that that could not have been easy to share, but thank you because, I mean, it's a beautiful thing. And you are an incredible man because of all of it. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. I mean, we, are, we're all kind of who we are by the people that, you know, have really impacted us in our life, you know, parents and, you know, yesterday's Father's Day. So, you know, happy Father's Day, Dad. Happy Father's Day to you, too. Oh, yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, it's, I don't, I don't know. I don't, I don't feel entirely like I've owned, like I, I'm

responsible for kind of the person I am. It's all this stuff that's come along the way. that's, you know, affected you. And Laura was 100% a key part of that. And, you know, anybody who's had love or had a really good relationship, when you, for me, it was like when I was talking to Katie, I wanted to see if this is something she is except because, I mean, Laura's 50% of me, like just together for such a long time, experienced so much together that, yeah,

It was, it was really nice. I'm getting terrible. I remember the first, the first night, I mean, you had said, I have a four-year-old son. So, like, you put that on the table for Katie to accept to understand that that is part of you. And for as a viewer, I was like, wait, like, give me more. Like, I want to know more. And so when you were talking to, I think it was Mike and another guy at this week's episode, you started to let it out. And it was so compelling and you had mentioned that Laura was the only person that you had said,

I love you to. I mean, these were things that America is now, like, lifting you up there and saying, like, please tell us more. We want more stories like yours in terms of how vulnerable you were, how much you've learned, how much you still have her by your side. And watching Katie receive that information and say something I thought was beautiful. I have a four-year-old son as well. So if someone had said to me, hey, I know how much weight this rose carries, it's also including your son.

Like, I could see you shift and say like, oh, wow, like, she gets it. She understands what I'm saying. And she also, you know, respected your wife. So it was just a beautiful moment. I think you spoke so eloquently about your experience about what you had, you know, had held Laura's hand through. and to not just have like a verbiage that was cliche you said things that we could really visualize

that we could see and want to like hold your hand through too so the way that you spoke was so eloquent it made viewers like me just so proud to be listening to your story and hearing you and being proud of you and I'm just it was a beautiful beautiful date Yeah, I mean, now that you're saying, now what we're talking about this, I'm getting like all these memories that are, you know, flashing back. And I also remember how difficult it was to keep my story from, like, other guys in the house that I actually had a good relationship with.

I particularly didn't release all of that because, one, it's like I'm an individual, too. I wanted them to get to know me. I didn't want this, you know, this guy's just sad all the time or has that because the story is, I mean, it's, you know, you can see when I talk about, I'm smiling. And it's, it's something I wanted to share with these guys, but I didn't want that to impact their own experience. It's such an important thing, too, that I wanted to make sure that I could speak to Katie. about it first just so that she heard it from me and that individuals out of no malintent per se

you bring it up prior but it just requires a different level of care man the way you handle things the way you handle yourself i'm just like the world needs more men like michael oh my gosh well one thing too that you had touched on is you know you'd mentioned it's not just like your son and your family involved in this, you know, you still are, I mean, I should say Laura's family is still part of your life. So that just plays an extra role, you know, extra care and thought when she's handing out those roses to you. So coming on, how did both of your families feel about you leaving to come on the show? Yeah, great question. Yeah, my, I don't even like to call them in-laws. I mean, their family. We've just been with them for so long and they're amazing. And we've all really leaned

on each other and kind of grown over the past, you know, geez, the last three years. But when producers reached out to me to be on this, you know, show with Katie and everything, I wanted to, I wanted to ask them first about their opinion. And so after kind of going back and forth and, you know, trying to figure out the pros and cons and all that, I went to my parents and I was, you know, this is the, you know, the bachelor, yeah, I made me on it. Like, is this something I should do? And, you know, we went back and forth a bunch and then my parents, they've always been, one, so incredibly supportive. They're really good people.

My mom and my sister, I believe, they said, I hear everything you're saying, but every time you're talking about this, you're smiling. so it really didn't have anything to do with the words per se and that's kind of what I was alluding to before like you can see it in people's eyes like what do they want to do your answers are always kind of right there um so I was like you know you're right like I do get a little like pep of my step a little energy which quite frankly I really needed at the time too because you know sometimes I mean I was just totally in this rut you know where it's just like oh god um and that that kind of helped lift me up, but, you know, my decision to, you know, begin this journey is not just mine. So there's a lot of people who are affected with it in my world, people that I really love

and cherish. And so I did say that before I decided to go on the show, I wouldn't go on unless my in-laws had given me full of approval. Basically, like, this is my, I, I out to do something, you know, that may feel, make it feel uncomfortable, but they were supportive too. They understand that we've all been through some very crazy moments together. They know how much, you know, I, you know, supported them, loved their daughter and everything, and they're amazing because they wanted to see me, you know, find happiness again. And I think everybody needs somebody to help them navigate life.

yeah well yes ever i mean you know companionship and partnership to go through all of the ups and downs is so important you know we as humans gravitate towards that um you had mentioned at one point that um obviously you're ready to open your heart again so what kind of got you to that place where you knew you were ready for that you know we talked to like you know a lot went down in your past two years. And so how did you know, like, okay, I'm here. Like, I'm at a good place because I think sometimes it's easy to, especially when you're going through so many hardships and dealing with a quarantine and this pandemic, too,

to need some sort of distraction. So what was it that got you to the place where you're like, my head and my heart are ready to, you know, fully give this a shot? That is a really, really good question. And, you know, for anybody that's ever lost somebody, their process is all very, very different. For me, I am very proactive in trying to, you know, get better. And a lot of that has to do with putting yourself in awkward situations and kind of forcing you to grow.

And probably, you know, geez, maybe, you know, five months after Laura passed, I actually went on my first date, not because I wanted to find somebody, but I wanted to feel that experience. You know, when you've been with the same person for 16 years, you know, I'm, everything is different. You don't have the same inside jokes. When someone touches you on the shoulder, they smell different. Like all of these different experiences, when you go through it for the first time, it's really shocking. And it's scary. So I spent a lot of 2019, putting myself in those scenarios where I was like, okay, I went through that, not as bad as I thought or horrifying, you know, depending on this situation. But, you know, you're putting yourself

in that just so, just so you can document it. And I, one thing I hear all the time is, you know, has there been enough time? Is this too soon? Which totally valid. Very much valid. It's as though I have the answers to this either. So it's just what I'm leaning on. But time itself doesn't heal. I mean, sometimes you just have to acknowledge the fact that you're not whole. But it doesn't mean you can't be happy or you can't grow. And I would really say that I'm thankful that I spent that time.

to find a way to progress and I put that kind of work in when it was most uncomfortable, most awkward. I put that work in, you know, early on so that it would make me ready to go through this journey, this, you know, and yeah, well, I mean, once I got there, I felt like I was, I was ready, I was prepared. And I wasn't wasting anybody's time. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Oh, man. I, I, I, I, I, saw a um a graph or a graphic on instagram the other day where it was like talking about grief um and talking about losing somebody and it was like a it was all these jars stacked up with like this black ball and it's and it's um showing like how like i could be botching this so i'm sorry and they

might cut this part out totally but it's like this black ball and like saying like your grief is going to be the same throughout all the stages of life it's always going to be one size but it's like, it grows. And some days, like the grief is harder than others. Some days it's easier. And so you just have to adjust the size of the jar around you instead of trying to force it all in the same size every time. Um, total fence. Yeah.

And that's plain. You know, some days, like I haven't lost a partner in life, but I have lost a lot of people. I've lost my father. And so I get it. It's like you have these days where you feel like, okay, I'm good. I'm solid. I'm on the right path. And then you have some days that are crushing.

And so you just have to learn to adjust. And I'm sure that's tenfold for you. you know, because you do have a son and a part of her with you that lives on. And so, and I'm glad that you recognize that and can acknowledge it and know, you know, it's not I was going to be easy. It's not always the same. But that's why I'm glad that you're along on this season and this journey, I think, to kind of like portray that and show that to the world and to show, you know, you're doing

the best you can in your own way. And I think that's a beautiful thing. Yeah, I think you said it, you said it great. And happy Father's Day to him to tell us. day. It was a rough one, but, you know, we go on and we adjust. We feel the thing, so. Those calendar days, man, you're just like, oh, God, here we go. And they're always still very much real. And part of me hopes that they, it never, it always feels that way. Because the worst thing to feel is numb or like, you know, apathetic. It's like sometimes even pain of a,

of loss is still connection you know it still links you with them forces you to stop and think and there you know there's there's this awesome quote that i heard too i'm not like the quote guys so you have good ones though you seem to have good ones like this early in the morning throwing out quotes my god but it was this it was this idea that you know you you walk along with somebody that you loves for so long that when you lose somebody it's almost like you know part of your leg is is cut off but what you do is you learn how to dance with the lymph you keep giving me the chills michael golly but that's but that's really it is you're trying to make the best out of a situation and you stay you know you stay you understand the value of life like that life is short

that, you know, it can't be wasted. And I think in my situation, I saw my wife such a, like, a courageous fighter, like, maintain so much optimism and humor during times when things were really bleak and dismal. And you can easily focus on that. So anytime I get overly, you know, stressed or overwhelmed or down, I do try to, not always successfully, by the way, but always try to look back on our shared experience together as a family, everything that we have been through to get us to where we are. And I find it very therapeutic and healing.

And it helps give me that kind of boost and push that I need to get through very difficult times when they come up. Well, it just means that it was real. If you're not feeling it. And if it's not, you know, if you're not. feeling all of that, it just diminishes what you had. And it seems like there was so much love and just such an incredible solid relationship between the two of you. And so it's, it's good to feel that and recognize it. Because, you know, if you didn't hurt, what are we doing in this

world then? One thing I want to ask you, and I want, you know, like I said earlier, if there's anything else that you would love to share about Laura with us, whatever you feel comfortable with, please do so. But then also, I want to give you the floor to talk about. any breast cancer resources or support that you might want to share because I know many of our listeners, you know, have gone through something similar or know of somebody that, you know, has gone through something. Unfortunately, cancer is such a beast in this world. And it, it's effing sucks, you know? But it's such a reality that most people have to deal with. So if you do have any resources or support, like, please share here because I'm sure our listeners would welcome that with open arms. Yeah, thank you too for allowing me to. you know, bring this up. About three months after Laura had passed away, I was thinking about, you know, I just wanted to create something that, you know,

really talked about who she was, had something for my son, James, to connect with. You never, time is so strange. You don't know how it's going to change over time. And I really didn't want to lose that connection in that relationship and everything. So I did create something called the L4 project about three months later. And the L4 project, L4 stands for Live Life like Laura.

And the L4 project is an apparel company. We donate 100% of the proceeds to charities that do support cancer research and all of the different elements that are sometimes overlooked during this process. you know, caregivers, transportation to chemotherapy, you know, a lot of these free services, and there's tons of amazing organizations that, you know, 501c3 organizations that are doing this. So we like to create, you know, clothing that does kind of illustrate the journey that people go through. And if you go online at L4project.com, you can kind of get a better vibe for it. The shirt I'm actually wearing today, this started a year ago during COVID.

There's an amazing pediatric cancer center in Ohio, the Shower's Center, Pediatric Cancer at African General Hospital. And, you know, when 2020 hit, you know, COVID and everything, I mean, just think about COVID, for example, on how many different ways it has affected people's lives, whether it's, you know, funerals or whatever, you know, we weren't allowed to go to see live music, right? Totally sucked. But it really has impacted other people in ways we really can't imagine. And in probably mid-2019, we went to the pediatric cancer center and we turned all these kids into fashion designers.

So we wanted to, like, give them a distraction kind of offset them. and we got all this amazing artwork back, and then we take that artwork, we give it to a graphic designer, and they try to capture the idea of what it looks like or feels like to go through cancer as a child. And this design here, I absolutely love, because it's not,

you don't want to downplay the severity, but at the same time, you don't want to make it all sad as well, because that's not right. So this design, obviously it's a heart, but the information that we got back from the kids, there was so many commonalities. You know, there was love, there was support, there was hope, but also there was grief. And so this can be interpreted as either sunrise or a sunset. But, you know, the heart and everything is, it's really essential for all of those different components as well.

That's beautiful. I feel like I don't know. I'm just emotional right now. This is incredible. And again, thank you for sharing. Everyone, please go check it out. What is the website, Michael? It's L4project.com.

Okay, L4project.com. Everyone listening. Please go check it out and support. Like that, man, I don't even have words to say right now. And I'm not as, like, I've never rendered speechless, but I don't even have words right now because you were just an incredible human and the way that you still have this outlook on life, I think is such a beautiful thing. We could sit here and talk to you for hours. I know that you are a busy man and you have a little one to take care of. So before we

let you go, this is one question that we always ask our guests each week. Overall, without giving any spoilers away from this season, what was your rose and what was your thorn? Okay. And you can start with either, whatever, whatever's easiest. Yeah. Geez, Rosenthorn. So I'm interpreting that as what was the best part and what was the most painful part? Exactly.

Okay. Okay. I would say the most painful part is, you know, I mean, for me, it was always being away from my son. That was really, really difficult. I think there's a part where in my life, sometimes it feels like anything that I want to do to progress me personally is also taking away from something else that I love. So there's always this balance at play.

And that was very difficult being away from him. Luckily, I was able to FaceTime and keep that connection. the rose part i mean i could go on forever about that um you know just katie just being very warm she is one one thing i'll say she is an amazing human being um i think i think the world is going to be very impressed with the type of person she is they may think they know but she has incredible depth to her. She's very, very smart. And she handles very stressful situations with grace.

I mean, she's very cognizant, very empathetic. And she was a perfect choice for this in my book. I was so lucky to have her on this journey with me and everything that we shared the entire time. I mean, it was a rose for me. I mean, that all felt very, very good. Okay, casting did really good. Can you please do more of these guys, please? If you saw him out, you can do it again.

Try and seek this type of man all the time. Michael, you are sending the bar extremely, extremely high. Extremely high. It's kind of strange because I really didn't watch this show too much. My wife loved it. And so when production reached out to me, it was really right around my wife's two-year anniversary. So it's like you're always looking for signs, right?

And this one just was so obvious. This is funny, too. And I know everybody's got to go. No, no, you're fine. Oh, yeah, this is a funny one too. So this is a true story. So even before cancer hit our life, like when we got married, Laura would watch this show and she would basically say,

you know, we should get like a fake divorce. go on there like you can go your day and then then you come back to me you know so it was something she had like in her head and when this opportunity to pursue us came up i couldn't help but hear her kind of telling me to do it um and yeah it's it's it's really really amazing i feel like i've been able to to grow and take a lot from it and um whatever happens happens okay michael you have been been one of the most interesting, profound, just like incredible people that we have had on this podcast. It's still too early to take compliments here. It has been so great chatting with you. Thank you so much. I hope that this isn't the last time that we will have you on or be able to

have a conversation with you. But you have been such a joy this morning. So thank you. Oh, thank you guys. Thank you for having me. And keep your head up. Keep smiling. And I'll talk to you you too i want to check out your website once we leave here all right thank you all right take care i michael hi michael oh katherine michael's incredible he's that's that's really hard to follow that type of man if if she didn't choose him there's going to be a line up the door for that guy oh my god i might i might join that line i'm not going to lie i might be i'm going to be first in line can we start a roster can i be number one on that list like i think i just fell in love I mean, he just...

He is a grown man. That is a man. He is a man who knows what life is about. Yes. And that's the thing. Like, he's been through so much, but to still have that positive outlook and to still be open and just embrace everything that can come your way, I think is such a beautiful thing that you don't see that often. I'm just so happy we had him on and we were able to, you know, I would love to chat with

him more. I feel like we could have kept. going obviously he has a son and he's a busy busy guy so um thank you to michael for joining us that guy i seriously with all the good quotes sprinkled throughout like what do you say yeah tell me more about how to overcome things but i'm so glad we were able to have him so michael thank you so much for joining us and to all of our bachelor happy hour listeners thank you once again for hanging out with us this week i hope that you guys enjoyed this episode because there was a lot to take from that a lot on all angles. And so please go check out his website, his, his, what is, his,

L4project.com. I'm going to, I'm going to Google this after that and probably make some purchases to support. So if you guys want to keep checking in with us and sending us your comments, questions, concerns, potential guests that you would like us to chat with, please do so. You can find us on social at Bachelor Happy Hour on. Instagram and at Batch Nation Pods on both Facebook and Twitter. It's a new one, so it's at Batch Nation Pods on Facebook and Twitter. And as always, please don't forget to subscribe to our podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the Wondery app, or wherever you are listening to us right now.

Thanks, everyone. Thanks. It's important that we just reassure people that they're not alone and there is help out there. The Good Stuff Podcast Season 2 takes a deep, look into One Tribe Foundation, a non-profit fighting suicide in the veteran community. September is National Suicide Prevention Month, so join host Jacob and Ashley Schick as they bring you to the front lines of One Tribe's mission. One Tribe saved my life twice. Welcome to Season 2 of the Good Stuff. Listen to the Good Stuff podcast on the Iheart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, host of the psychology podcast. Here's a clip from an upcoming conversation about how to be a better you. When you think about emotion regulation, you're not going to choose an adaptive strategy which is more effortful to use unless you think there's a good outcome. Avoidance is easier, ignoring is easier, denial is easier, complex problem solving, takes effort. Listen to the psychology podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, my name is Enya Yumanzoor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you.

But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeart Radio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. This is an IHeart podcast.