Bachelor Happy Hour - PODCAST EXCLUSIVE: The MOST DRAMATIC Finale in ‘Bachelor’ History with Clayton & Susie

Episode Date: March 16, 2022

On this week's podcast exclusive, Becca and Serena talk about the most dramatic season finale in "Bachelor History" (but for realz) with guests Clayton and Susie!  Clayton and Susie explain how they got reconnected after a dramatic ending in Iceland, who asked who to be "official," and what their future plans are now that the season has ended. Plus, Clayton addresses his breakups with Gabby and Rachel and the decisions he made in the end. Then, Becca and Serena play the "Happy Couple" game with Clayton and Susie! Don’t forget to rate and subscribe so you never miss an episode. See omny.fm/listener for privacy information.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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at work in the ad council. Have you ever wished for a change but weren't sure how to make it? Maybe you felt stuck in a job, a place, or even a relationship. I'm Emily Tish Sussman, and on she pivots, I dive into the inspiring pivots of women who have taken big leaps in their lives and careers. I'm Gretchen Whitmer, Jody Sweetie. Monica Patton. Elaine Welteroff. Learn how to get comfortable pivoting because your life is going to be full of them. Listen to these women and more on she pivots now on the iHeartRadio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts what is a bachelor happy hour the time has come we are here we have seen the finale we saw everything that went down in iceland and it is crazy but clayton season has officially

come to an end Becca you and i i know have so much to say so much to talk about this episode. And we also have so many questions for our amazing guests today. Yes, we do. And if you couldn't have already guessed, we of course had to bring on the man himself. So we will have clean on here very shortly. And if you didn't watch the finale, you missed out because he is back with Susie, which was interesting for Serena and I, because I got to start this podcast by saying, I'm going to timestamp us a little bit. We are recording prior to the live finale. The last thing we saw was basically the breakup between Susan and Clayton and her leaving him in Iceland. But we weren't at the finale to watch it live on stage. And so with that, once we bring

Clayton and Susie on, we might be re-asking, recapping some of the same stuff that was covered on stage. Apologies in advance. But we also have so much more time with the couple today that we can really dive in and get deeper, ask more questions, get way more answers than what Serena and I were left with, you know, watching these last two episodes. So before we bring them on, we're going to do a quick little recap because like you just said, Serena, so much went down. It was wild. Her and I were texting while we were watching this, literally fuming. I don't think I've been this stressed out for any other relationship other than my own ever ever no i mean i made the mistake of watching it before bed so i finished the episode at like 11 30 p.m. Toronto time and i was laying in bed

texting becca and just couldn't sleep until like 2 a.m i was so stressed out i had so many emotions i had raging herburn from just all of the emotions i was feeling about this episode But we have so many questions for Susie and Clayton. And I know that we're going to get to talk all about them and their relationship and their journey. So I think I would love to talk about Gabby and Rachel on our recap right now. I mean, you should see my notes right now. And I usually, like, I'll take a couple notes for each episode. I can't even begin to tell you how much I had.

I picked everything apart because there was so. And I think let's just start at the beginning of the first episode at that roast ceremony in Iceland when Susie was already gone. It was just Gabby and Rachel. Like overall, what stuck out to you in that roast ceremony? Okay. So Clayton going to the row ceremony, I mean, we'd seen the trailers. So we kind of had an idea of what we were about to watch. So I'm already like sweating with anxiety as they enter the rose ceremony. Clayton tells the women what went down. And as much as I can see why he made that decision after Susie left because of what

happened, I can see him being like, let's just bite the bullet, let's tell all the woman, let's put all the cards on the table. I don't love his approach here. I think this should have been separate one-on-one conversations. And then watching like Rachel sob on the stairs and Gabby, you know, talking about how she now feels measured. I mean, it was so hard to watch. Oh, difficult. And, and the sad part too is like, just to give the show some credit, that location for the row ceremony was stunning. Stunning. The one thing that stuck out to me the most is not the, not the conversation that he had where he was

like, you know, I was intimate with two women. I've told both of you that I love you. It was the fact that he approached it as like, I want to be completely honest and transparent with these women. And they can decide what to do if they want to accept the rose great if they don't i respect that because him saying that i didn't line up with then the fact that gabby chose to decline the rose and leave and then he still kind of pulled her in obviously from a show aspect you can't just leave like one girl left this week standing when there's still so much and clayton still had relationships that he wanted to explore but it just really made it difficult to you know know, hear his words and line up with his actions. They didn't match up. And so I was watching

that. Like, I was like, poor Gabby, just let her go, you know? Like, let her leave if that's what she wants. I don't think Clayton knew exactly what he wanted in that moment. I think he was being very reactive. I mean, we saw him be very reactive in the conversation with Susie. Like, you could tell his emotion is just completely took over. And I feel like that was kind of a lingering effect because I think he was trying to just be like, okay, well, I just want to be. proactive now and just tell them everything all at once right away as soon as possible to not feel the way that Susie made me feel when she left. And then I think he kind of backtracked realizing oh my gosh, what have I done? I don't want these women to leave like rasping onto it. But I mean,

there would be a lot of things I would be very upset about if I was Rachel and Gabby in the situation. But I think personally one of the things that would have bothered me the most is when you go went to fantasy suites that time is supposed to be private time between you and the lead and my expectation if i was them going into the fantasy suite would be that that time together would be kept private so to find out like if i'm one of the women and i have been intimate with clayton to find out that not only did he tell another woman but he disclosed it to all of the viewers as well like i'm seeing there being like my parents are watching this like like he kind of took that choice away for them and like took their privacy away in my opinion totally i felt for those two women in

that moment so much and and that continued like i i you know we've all been in the position where something's uncomfortable where like whatever it might be whether it's a breakup whether it's finding out you know your partner has feelings for somebody else whatever it might be it's so difficult and what I will say is I really commend Gabby for being able to vocalize so well how she's feeling but then to also say Clayton how do you think us as women feel like put yourselves in our shoes I know you think you're trying to do the right thing but really take a step back and you're not being empathetic to us and putting yourselves in our shoes which that that sentiment continued because moving on from that rose ceremony we get into like the real

meet of the show and it was so difficult to watch everything go down because not only did he have these two women who he has told he's falling in love with them with you know falling in love with them he then had them meet his family which is such a major milestone and so important especially when there's only two women left to keep them around to bring them to meet the families only to after that second family meeting, he says, oh, wait, I still love this third woman. I have to go back to her. In that moment, I truly wish he would have before went back to Susie had gone to the two women he was in the relationship with, to have a conversation and say, this is where my head and my heart is at. I'm potentially thinking of going to chat with Susie,

but I want to be up front and honest, like he said the whole time, and I wish he would have been much more direct at that point. in time. I agree 100%. It really just felt like a long snowball effect from the beginning of fantasy suite week to the end of the finale episode. And I think my biggest criticism for Clayton would be just a lack of empathy in how he has treated these women. And like, we can do our best to like see his side of things and like be like, okay, like I can understand maybe why you made that decision or like why you said this but at the end of the day like it just has gotten worse and worse and worse and it's just been a roller coaster because watching that rose ceremony

to then you know a day or two later seeing Gabby and Rachel meet the family and you can tell they basically like picked themselves up been like we're going to move forward we're going to fight for this relationship they are confessing their love for this man how they want a future with him to his family like they are back in a place of just being completely open and vulnerable to then for Clayton to realize, like, it was Susie and then go back and shatter them again. Like, it was unbelievably painful to watch. Like, I was almost in tears watching Rachel just sob because I just feel like everyone can relate to that feeling of heartbreak and just feeling like someone is, like, stepping on your chest. Like, that pain was so evident in both these women.

that I really just want to be like, Clayton, I really wish you had taken a step back. Like, he clearly just needed more time to process. And, like, if he had taken that, like, I really hope that he could have seen how his actions were going to impact all three of these women. But, like, in this last episode, specifically Rachel and Gabby. Mm-hmm. The hardest part to watch was the breakup that he had with both women at the same time. because I'm trying to watch it as like, if these were my best friends, if these were my

girlfriends, how would I want somebody to approach this? And I find it, and this is my personal opinion and something that I actually do want to bring up to Clayton when we have him on, I find it so disrespectful to have gone to that room with both women sitting down together and to break up with them at the same time. If he truly was falling in love with both of them, if he truly could have seen the future with both of them like he said he was he should have given each individual woman enough time enough to care enough respect empathy anything alone for them to be able to process with him away from each other i felt like that moment i i i was literally cringing i was like what the fuck am i watching right now like i cannot believe he's doing this as like a joint

breakup i feel like i don't i don't even want to like try to think of like where his mindset was i just i truly wish in that day the breakups are going to be hard enough i already feel for those women because we all know what it feels like to be broken up with on the show that well maybe you don't but but i just really wished he would have had separate time with both of them to have them ask whatever they wanted, have them say whatever they wanted, have them have enough time because that was a really shitty position to be put in. And I felt so bad for both of them. And then, but I will say this, when he has to walk Gabby out and she's like, no, her face, I was like, yes, girl. I would have been the same. I would have been like, are you seriously asking

to walk me out right now? Like, I would be like, do you want to just walk me and Rachel out together to throw us in the same van? Like, oh, my gosh. like I get he has to ask that but like I was like good for you Gabby for being like I will walk myself out to that van thank you very much but oh I just I literally felt sick watching him sit down in the room with both of them I can't even imagine how they felt and like I'm pretty sure at the Rose ceremony he and Gabby and his conversation had said like I see you all as individuals like your relationship is special like you are each different women and I have different love for each of you but in reality like you said this previously his actions and words

just weren't matching up a lot throughout this episode because it's like if you truly felt that way you would have felt a sense of duty to these women to treat each relationship individually and therefore have individual breakups with these women because they are individual people and individual relationship like this is not this is not like sister wives like they like I get you're dating multiple women, but, like, you're not all in a relationship together. Yeah. And at this point, it's not a rose ceremony where you send multiple people home. Like, he had already had overnights.

Like he said, he was already intimate. He had already fallen in love and expressed that. Like, that takes every relationship to a whole new level. And it just was so disrespectful. I have never seen anything like that in the show. I've honestly never felt like this watching the show. And I, like, I. I'm not even in this relationship.

I shouldn't have these feelings for relationships I'm not part of. It's just, and it's hard, you know, I'm trying to stay objective here. Again, we will have time to chat with Clayton about it. I really hope he can shed some insight as to, like, where his mindset was. All I have to say, though, is that Gabby and Rachel deserved a freaking limo filled with champagne. Yeah. With puppies, with pizza, with all the carbs, with, like, a free freaking vacation. to somewhere tropical and warm.

I mean, man, I hope that now, I hope now being outside of it and outside of filming, they have each other to lean on and support one another because they, I'm sure, have very similar feelings and emotions. But it was so much,

and it was very heavy all throughout the entire episode, up until the proposal that was the whole second, I mean, don't hear wrong, part one of this finale on Monday night was really heavy for sure definitely a roller coaster of emotions definitely a lot of twists and turns and shocking moments part two was truly just a total train wreck a complete dumpster fire i was like unbelievably emotional watching it the whole time it was just so hard and heavy to get through

yeah yeah um but i'm hoping that's not the case because as we've heard the couple is together I'm assuming they're happy. We'll have them on right now to ask all of these burning questions because we can speculate as much as we want, but I really want to hear it, as Jesse Palmer said at Women's All from the horse's mouth. So I think with that, Serena, it's time to bring on both Clayton and Susie and see how they're doing. So without further ado, Bachelor Happy Hour, please welcome Clayton and Susie. All right, you two. I'm so excited to have you here because we have a lot to dive into. to so many questions. I'm assuming so much that transpired between the breakup. Unfortunately, I don't even want to say that because you're happy together now, but the breakup in Iceland versus now. So can you just fill us in on everything that transpired to get us to where we are today? The last thing we saw, just for context, is Susie getting in the car and Clayton standing in Iceland.

So we want every detail from that moment to now, please. A lot has happened. Um, I, yeah, I can say that I was the first person to reach out pretty soon after Iceland. And I, I didn't reach out with the intentions of restarting a relationship or knowing where that conversation was going to go. But I think we both had been through a lot and we both loved each other a lot. And I just wanted to reach out and ask for one more conversation with him. And if he, if he was interested and, um, we pretty much talked until we fell asleep for like, yeah it was like five hours our first conversation and then every conversation since then

it's pretty much the same way yeah I remember after the first conversation at the end of it I was like should I call you tomorrow like was this this five hours I was done what what do we doing and she's like you can call me tomorrow if you want and when she first reached out yeah in the DM she slid slid into the DMs and that's how they always do it and I I saw I was just scrolling through my DMs because I was actually like I was still just traveling back and I'm just going to my DMs and all of a sudden I see her name I was like this has got to be some fake account trying to catch me like they're trying to already spoil the ending so I had to click on and I had to like do some recon and saw that the account was legitimate and yeah then like she said

we just talked day after day after day and and then finally I just I think I was the one that made the push I said hey like we should try to meet up I mean we keep talking and this is great but like what are we what is this like you know are we going to try to Well, I mean, because I was trying to put a title on or something. I was like, give me, like, I don't know what I'm doing. Susie, what are we? I was like, are we, what are we doing here? I mean, just, I was like, are we?

We're both having fun, but like, is this just for temporary, like, for whatever. So I asked her, you know, hey, like, we should try to meet back up and like, just take a weekend together and maybe we'll find out whether or not we want to continue from that point. And now we're, I guess, four months from that point. And yeah. How long did you wait to reach out? Like, was it a couple days after Iceland? Was it a couple of weeks?

No. I got my phone. I called my parents and then I slid into Clayton's DMs. Oh, like boom, boom. Yes. Like, I knew in my heart leaving Iceland, I was like, this isn't over for me, but I also knew that, well, I mean, to be quite honest, I was freaked out about everything. And I didn't know the capacity which I wanted Clayton in my life. life. I didn't, I felt like after our fantasy suite date night, I was like, why, you know, why did that like

switch flip for him where we went from like trying to talk things out to, you know, I felt like it kind of got turned. And I was just like, what, like, what was that? You know, like I, and we didn't really have the time or the capacity that, the ability to have all the conversations we needed to have for me to be like, okay, I want to read, I want to have a relationship with you. So I knew I needed to break things off because I just, yeah, I had to let Clayton go in that moment. I also knew, I mean, it sounds crazy to say, but I knew that there were other people in Iceland that loved him and that he loved. And I was like, if me breaking this off gives him that clarity to go be with somebody else and like I have to support that because I don't know if I want to be with him right now.

And yeah, we took a step back, several steps back. And then it's given me a lot of clarity. And now I feel like I really know who Clayton is. And now I feel like, yeah, I'm comfortable. And we were comfortable taking the steps that we took to be, like, becoming boyfriend, girlfriend. I ask him to be my boyfriend. Oh, I love it. Look at you two now. Well, yeah.

So I have so many questions. And I know Serena does too. I want to know what when I should ask of, like, where to begin. I guess let's take it back to. the fantasy sweet night like your breakup you know at that moment you chose to end things and walk away because he had been intimate and did say he fell in love with two other women and it was too much for you you couldn't compromise who you were you know that was what changed in your mind to get to now okay i'm ready to be with him was it the fact that you knew he ended things with those other two

girls like what was that changer that shift for you um i think think for me, I was so, I was super freaked out of the idea of leaving with Clayton and feeling like I was sharing him with somebody else or that he would second guess things. And to be honest, I remember going into that week, just not thinking that it was me. I had this feeling. I was like, I just don't think it's me. And I love Clayton. Before, you know, romantically, I love him as a person. And if he has found his person through this, then obviously I'm going to be happy for him. Because that's the, the name of the game like Clayton is there to find love and and it might happen um or it might not but you know I was just trying to stay really like level headed of maybe you know maybe it's somebody

else and and I thought that if it were me like I was like I want him to know by this point that it's me and I want him to protect me and to protect what we have and I felt like I couldn't see myself leaving Iceland confident in what we had if he had like brought those relationships to the next level and um i mean i just i couldn't fathom him being in love with multiple women like it everything i was just like how like how am i supposed to feel confident in what we have and um yeah i think in the discussions that we had in iceland and then especially post iceland we've yeah we've kind of figured out what what it is that we need from each other and i think think taking those steps back was what I needed for clarity. And I also think that night when

everything first kind of happened at the fantasy suite date night, I was hearing Clayton. I was like, I actually understand. Like I understand, like I didn't think I would, but I understand what you're saying because you're telling me that you've fallen in love with multiple people. So your, your actions weren't in disregard for me. They were just in regard for those relationships. And that's like, that's totally fair. It was just really hard for. me to wrap my head around and feel comfortable and confident in a relationship moving forward. Right. Yeah. And I feel like when you're in it, it's like, like hindsight's always 2020 and life in general, but like, I mean, Beck and I can relate to like when you're in it,

it's so all consuming and like it is hard to sometimes see bigger picture or like things like you're, I don't know, like there's just a sense of clarity like separating yourself once you've left the show. like there's just a whole other kind of clarity but i want to ask you this and clayton i'll ask i'll ask you the same question after but looking back on that conversation with clayton from that breakup do you have any regrets anything you wish you had done differently i'm sure you wish the whole conversation had gone differently but just specifically to you and then clayton i would love to hear your answer to that as well yeah i think i could have done so many things differently And we both feel that way in general.

And we both acknowledge the places that we could have done better or the places that we did good. And for me, there's a lot of things that would have changed. But specifically during that conversation, I think I would have been like, like, why are you freaking out right now? Because I was so caught off guard. And now we understand, like, where his mind was at. Like, he kind of thought, like, oh, did you just play me to get to this point? And in that movement, I was like, wait, why are you? Why are you freaking out?

Because, but I didn't ask that. I was just like trying to explain like this isn't, you know, this isn't fake, this isn't fake, but instead of like asking more questions to get to the bottom of what was going through his mind, we just were like both in this like panic mode where we were like, I was like, now I'm freaked out. You're freaked out.

Like we were just going back and forth of like panic, I think we both were just totally blindsided by each other. And yeah, I would have asked more questions and I would have just been more direct and I would have communicated better overall. Yeah. Yeah, very similar for me. I wish that I would have,

I think the biggest thing is obviously I regret the way I handled it when I became frustrated and raised my voice. I, you know, it would have been great if I could have just taken 20 minutes and stepped aside and, like, taking a breather. It was, you know, my head was racing And I did have these dark thoughts halfway through the interview of, you know, she's here maybe to be the next bachelorette. And this was everything that I had happened previously with some of the other women kind of coming, being exposed for playing a game.

And so I just, I let those thoughts creep in. And then that was at that point when I was outside talking to Jesse and she came and talked to me. That was when my head started transition. And you can see it in my face where she's like, do you want to go back inside and talk? And I said, sure, yeah, I want to hear what you have to say. But I got into a bad headspace at that point. And then from there, I mean, again, people saw my actions. And I do regret the way that I handled that.

I just was, I was in disbelief. And yeah, and I was trying to make sense of what it was. And I couldn't see her perspective. And I do see it now. But I think I kind of got into this mindset in that environment where I made assumptions. And that was one of my other biggest regrets. I assumed that all of the women kind of expected me to potentially be intimate, potentially fall in love with multiple women. And it's crazy to even say that and think that that would be an assumption.

But I thought in this world, in this environment, that's kind of a known. Like we know what this week's about. And that was wrong. And as everyone saw, as I brought it up to the other women, all of them were very frustrated and upset. And that was a big, big moment for me when I realized you made assumptions. And because of that, you couldn't have been more off. And now you have to deal with your actions that you assumed everybody was on the same page with, which nobody was. I mean, Serena and I talked about this on the podcast last week a little bit because we were obviously recapping your last day, that last night together at the fantasy suites prior to that.

And I was trying to see both sides. And I will say, like, Serena and I got a lot of criticism because I feel like people think it's so black and white. Like people wanted to be either team Susie or team Clayton. And that's not always the case, right? We are trying to look at your relationships and your season as a whole objectively. And so, you know, me being both on the bachelor and as bachelor's right, I can see both of your points of view. I could see both sides of being broken up with and being the one to break up with somebody. And it's a lot.

And there's so much scrutiny that goes into, especially for you, Clayton, every single action decision you make. Like, it is heightened because you have millions of people watching you. And dating on TV is out. always hard. I'm sure you guys are experiencing that now. And to be quite honest, it's probably going to be hard for a while, unfortunately. It's great that you two have each other and are happy now, but it will be tough. And so how do you think moving forward, you two are going to be able to support each other in the public eye and dealing with all of that scrutiny and people's comments and criticism? I think, yeah, I think we're both, I think the only, the only comments I see

that I agree with are the ones that say Clayton, you know, had every right to explore these relationships. And Susie had every right to, you know, walk away. And like, people who are respecting both sides, those are the only ones where I'm like, that's like spot on. And that's how we feel. We both felt that we, we both were valid. And we don't, like, we, it's really hard right now to see everybody, um, basically taking sides because we're like, they don't know we're together. so people are taking sides and they're splitting and they're being divisive and they're like claiming these absolutes and we are we're four months past it and we're together and we both see each other's perspective and we both have given each other grace where we need where we've needed to and so I think

yeah just I mean for me I'm like anyone that supports me like just know like I'm I am I would say pretty picky I think we're both pretty picky people when it comes to dating like we've we have high standards and I would not be dating Clayton if he were a bad person or if he were you know disrespectful when we had arguments like I wouldn't stick around for that I left him in Iceland like I wasn't afraid to say no I don't want to be in this relationship because I didn't know if it was good for me but it is good for me and so I guess for me I just want to ask anybody that is supporting me right now just know that like I'm making this choice and it's best for me so please support us together and support Clayton as well yeah

I think that's, you know, really well said. I, at the end of it, I mean, again, I've faced a ton of heat just from the start, just for even accepting the role. And so it's, I've kind of just been used to this. And I hope that through us being together, this doesn't bring a lot of heat on her. You know, I do expect there to be some blowback because people are going to be frustrated that she took somebody back like me. But the fact of the matter is, is that, again, those people making those comments and assumptions don't know who I am. She does. My loved ones do. Her loved ones do. And they are very much supportive of us as a team. And so that's what I think I keep telling myself and that's what we keep talking about is at the end of it at all. If you're not supporting us as a team, if you're not supporting us, we're happy. Our loved ones are all supportive. They see both sides. As everyone saw, my family was like, yeah, dude, you're totally messed up. So again, just having them come in and say that, just it hit me because I really didn't have any, like,

to turn to until that point and had my parents straight up just be like dude you screwed up and it was the best thing that could have happened for them to come in at that point and say that because that's when it smacked me in the face I was like this is why I have you in my life because you as my family will tell me how it is and you guys hold me accountable and they did and so you know going forward though again they're very supportive they're very happy for the both of us and we're going to face criticism you can't keep everyone happy I've clearly learned that this entire away. And so we won't be able to. But I do believe people will see that what we have is authentic and that will, you know, have people start to cheer for us both. And the more that

they get to see of our relationship, whatever we decide to show, people will see that this is not something that was just built in two months, but we've had four months since the show. So you're talking about a half year of dating. And now we get to go outside of here and date in the real world and we'll be, you know, we're going to be moving in together and giving that a fair shot here soon. So moving in and starting that chapter. So like really kind of picking things up and saying like, right, like, let's see if we can, you know, if we live together. Like, that's the next step. Let's see how this goes. And there's no telling. We both know that relationships require work. But at the end of the day, we know this is the next best step for us to see if this is actually

something that'll be long term. That's so exciting. And you know what, Clayton, I did not mean to Diego, but it almost is humorous when you said, I've been getting criticism just for accepting the role as Bachelor, like right from the beginning. And it really is mind-boggling to the extent. I mean, look, you've made mistakes. Every lead has made mistakes. I do feel like you have gotten an extreme amount of criticism this season. And it is sad to see people take sides and teams and not just be like, you know, everyone's entitled to their opinion about the show and like analyzing it. but, like, you guys are together. Like, you are a team together.

Like, it's not Clayton or Susie. Like, it is Clayton and Susie now. And I'm excited for the world to be able to see that. And you guys to be able to openly share that and support one another. Because at the end of the day, like, all it comes down to is your happiness and what is the right decision for you. So I think people being able to see you guys together and, like, see the love you have will hopefully ease it up. Because obviously, like, we've all been there. we've all gotten hate and it's just never an easy thing to go through.

But I want to touch on your family because obviously we saw Susie go in for the firm handshake when she met them, just a nice little throwback to her entrance. Yes. I loved it so much. Firm handshake me at the first half the limo, you firm handshake me as well. Yeah, that's what I was laughing. I was like, Susie, back at it again with the firm handshake. She's consistent.

She is consistent. Establishing dominance. That's embarrassing. no it was great um so can you tell us you know have you met each other's families how has that gone i mean clayton was your family shocked uh yeah so we've both met well obviously i went to her hometown so i met her family in person we've also since talked on zoom and vice versa she's met my technically she's met my family as well on the show and then uh and then we've talked on zoom as well and yeah my family was absolutely shocked i can't remember

I remember, I think I withheld it from my mom for a little while because my mom, I love her to death, but my, I can't tell her. I tell her to keep a secret. That thing is out of her mouth in the next 20 minutes. So now, she's gotten a lot better with that. But I, I think I held back a little bit also because when she first reached out, I didn't want to jinx it. I didn't want to like go tell everybody and get everyone's hopes up just like, and get, including my own, just to be like, oh, wait, after a week of talking, we realize we don't want to continue this. So I kind of, kept tight lips about it, talked to my brothers and told them and they were like, all right, you know, they were like, that's really great. We're happy for you, but just be careful. And, uh, and so I mean, because again, like they knew that how, how shattered I was from like the whole experience and how they're like, okay, really, you've kind of, you kind of had your closure when she left you and now you're about to open the wound back up. So it really, they were just at that point like, all right, we'll see where this goes.

because they were as shocked as I was to see her reach out. But now, of course, I mean, we've been on so many Zooms. We're like face times with them and just, you know, it's like we're all hanging out virtually. And they're all excited to meet her in person. So everyone's pumped at this point. Yeah. Good. Well, I'm excited to see all of that unfold.

I want to ask you and I want to take it back a little bit. Dude, I have so many questions. I'm going to be all over the place just to warn you. But I'm trying to put myself back in your position. because I feel like how you two ended things kind of reminds me of how I ended things with Thomas. Like we left the beaches of paradise broken up. And then I like you, Susie, went back, you know, reached out to Thomas to see, you know,

like could this work? Like just testing the waters, if you will, like not putting any pressure on the relationship. Do you feel like how things ended in Iceland with the breakup? Obviously you weren't engaged so you didn't have the pressure of the ring and the engagement like in the back of your mind, do you think that helped kind of restart your relationship and make you stronger

because that pressure was off? Yeah. Actually, I didn't know you guys left the beach together. I think it was, I think Paradise was ending when we were filming still, so I didn't know that, but that's really cool.

I felt, yeah, I felt like I had to take a step away because I was afraid of accepting that rose and then being like, there's going to be pressure I'm going to put pressure on myself to stay with Clayton. Not necessarily the show or the fans or anything, but I know myself. And if I accepted that Rose in Iceland, I would be, I would be like, I just knew I was going

to have pressure to stay with Clayton through, you know, AFR and whatever. Like, I just, I know myself. And I was like, the only way I can protect myself. And honestly, our relationship now is to step away and, and do what I have. to do we had to heal from things that happened in iceland we had to take time to like move past things and yeah i think the lack of pressure that i was going to put on myself or that anybody from anywhere was going to put on me yeah i felt i felt like i had to do that and i do think i feel really confident in where we're at today and that we're here because we both want to be here not because you know

we're waiting for the show or something like that like i just i know myself and i was like this is the way i have to protect myself in this. And yeah, there wasn't pressure. Like, we didn't put pressure on ourselves in those first few weeks of talking to even meet up. We just kind of, we just talked until we, yeah, couldn't keep our eyes open every night. And that was like what we laid the foundation for our relationship and the trust. Just, yeah, that I needed it. I had to. Listen, I get it. I was the same way. It's like in a way you want to protect yourself, right? But if you're, Giving the relationship, you're all, you have to at some point be like, okay, we're either going to do this or not. But at least you know that whether it worked out or not, you would still have that friendship.

It's not like you had to go into dating right away and have like the show be like, are you together? Are you together? What's going on? And so I think it's honestly, I totally understand. And it's for me and Thomas, it was the perfect way to really jumpstart our relationship. Yeah. I remember FaceTiming Becca. Joe and I were FaceTime back at like a week after Paradise.

And she's like, guess what, guys? I'm going on a date with Thomas today. But hey, go ahead, Becca. No, no, no, no, keep going. Keep going. No, I was just going to say, like, it worked out for them. It was clearly working out for you guys. Everyone has, like, their own path in this journey.

And my question is going to be, and I was trying to find, like, a natural segue for this, but it's just not coming in mind. Is there anything watching it back that you guys were, surprised about whether it was about like an interview moment or like watching your relationship because like I feel like there were so many moments that you guys had together but then also where you were like separated like Susie watching with his family like what surprised you the most watching it back if we're just talking about us towards the end there as far as just how it all unfolded really something that surprised me but it was good for

for me to see because again, it taught me more or less life lessons was I remember thinking when we had our breakup, I remember going, stepping aside when she, when we took a moment and separated before we, I went outside and then we came back together. But I remember thinking after that night, like, wow, she was so cold. Like she didn't even try. She didn't feel she didn't, she didn't care at all. Like she just seemingly was like ready to dip. Like she came in, set her piece and then bounced. And that was the way that I remembered it. And as I watched the show back, it was the farthest thing from that. She was, you know, crushed. She was crying. She was struggling. Certainly some of the stuff was off camera that I didn't see. But even when she was speaking to

me, watching it back, I realized like, oh my gosh, she actually really was bothered by this and was hurt and was trying to make sense of it. And it just went, it just went to show me that I had become, I got so deep in that environment that I couldn't even see the emotions from her face because I was so shocked that she was shocked at what I had told her that I was just, I couldn't see her side of it. And I, in so much so that I couldn't even, I remembered her having different emotions than what she did. And it was a shock, but it was something that I really realized that I'm like, when you allow emotion to creep in instead of a rationale and you start allowing that to be the base of your decisions, that can cause you to even see people in a different light as far

as how they're expressing themselves. And that was a big life lesson for me to realize that I need to make sure in those moments whenever I do get emotional, that I do step away, take time. Because if I can't even read someone at that point and their true emotions, then I'm in no place to be able to have a productive conversation. Well said. That's really well said. Clayton, and this is something that I wish everyone could recognize and appreciate about you is, I mean, listen, we've all made mistakes. No one in your position has done it the right way. It's really just learn as you go.

and for as much criticism as you've received, you've also been, I would say, one of the most self-aware bachelors that we've had, that you know where you make your mistakes, you know where you would have done things differently and you fall on your sword and you recognize that and hold yourself accountable, which I really appreciate. I feel like it's very tough, especially for someone like me who's very stubborn. That's very tough to do all the time. And so I do appreciate that from you is you call yourself out. You hold yourself accountable. And I think that's so important. Yeah, I think what people see why is because it's really because my parents, I mean, they're incredible parents, but people saw it. My dad's no BS. That's the way he raised me. And so, you know, take accountability when you need to and just accept the fact that you're not perfect. That's something that is, again, my dad always instilled to me was, you know, no, don't make these excuses. Just when you, when you screw up, learn from it. And again, this is blunt accountability. I think I should show people why I can just sit here and just say, you know what? Yeah, I can take this responsibility because that's all growing up.

My dad was like, no, no time for excuses. Like, you own it. You're a man. Be a man. So I have nothing to think of my parents for that. They certainly did an incredible job raising me and my two best best they could. Yeah. I think accountability is definitely a lot harder than people give credit for. And I know that your mom specifically was having a lot of difficulty hearing all the criticism that was thrown your way. And I know that never gets any easier, but your parents are about get a lot of love. I definitely bet to get a lot of love. I will say that.

As they should. I mean, it's, again, it's like, that's my dad's hilarious. His little catchphrases or whatever you want to call him. I just, it just cracks me up because he'd always say things like that growing up. Gimini Christmas, he'd say all these different things that I remember like for my childhood. And, uh, but yeah, I mean, that's the real. My parents are real. They're not.

There's nothing scripted about either of them. And they both, um, you know, I saw when they showed up, I realized I could just see it in their face. I was like, okay, well, this perspective that you couldn't see, it's pretty clear to people that you love and trust can't see your side of it. So, you should probably reevaluate how you've, you know, going forward at this point. And yeah, they deserve all the love because, listen, they've had a hard enough time raising three boys. Oh, my worst nightmare, three boys. They're paying for a lot of children in that household. Exactly. Okay. Speaking of criticism and, and I, and I

still want to ask again so many questions for the both of you that we'll still get into but i need to ask this because and this is something that uh when we're doing our recap we touch on is these last two episodes if i'm going to be honest we're difficult to watch and again like i understand really kind of everyone's mindset in every moment because i've lived through it all so i try to be empathetic and you know see all sides of things but one thing that i think hurt just as a woman. And if I was watching, you know, if these were my girlfriends on TV, if these were some of my best friends, it would be really tough and hurt a bit. Was the last day, oh, I don't even know if it was last day, the last moment that you had with, and I don't want to bring up the other

girls. I'm sorry, Susie, but with Gabby and Rachel, when you ended things with those two, what brought you to that moment to break up with them both at the same point? Because for me personally, I would have wanted to just do it, I think, separately because if you did have strong feelings and you were falling in love with both of them, I think they deserved the respect to have separate conversations and the time dedicated to them being able to ask questions and like really have that closure. So again, and time is very strange in the world of Bachelor. I get that too. But what was going through your mindset and to do it in the way that it all went down? Yeah. Again, I think.

As I've seen it now, it's, it is something that I probably should have went about it the other way. But after the first time that I went, you know, the rose ceremony from hell or whatever you want to call it, when I, when I first broke that news to them about being, or with Susie and what all that occurred with her, I saw how the two of them reacted or they were, you know, they were distraught. But then towards the end, as where I was saying out the final two roses, they were, you know, holding it. other consoling each other and they seemed to be together like really them being together in that moment seemed to be beneficial and kind of helped you know take some of the blow out of all of the you know the severity of that or the how tough it was it kind of seemed like they were able to lean on each other and so after that point when I realized I was going to break up with the two of them and I needed to do that in order to fully pursue Susie I went back to that moment in my head and I

thought, well, in that moment, the last time you did this, they were there for each other. They were hugging each other. They were just reassuring each other that they were both there in it together and it was tough. And I kind of thought that is what my hope was, was that they could console each other. And then once they wanted to talk to me individually, we could step aside and talk privately. It was just my thought. Again, I didn't, it's, I didn't know, I didn't really know which way it was the best way to do. Because I've never dated multiple women at one time, nor will ever do that again. But I was like, okay, it seems like you, those two could maybe be there for each other in that moment. And that was what my thought was, was this could be helpful, I guess, since it's

going to be a lot to tell the both of them, hopefully they can be there at the end and at least soften the blow a little bit if they're together. And I mean, again, that was my thought, but it doesn't mean it was right. I'm actually so glad you asked that, Becca, because I had the same question. It just didn't make any sense to me at the time. I mean, I figured there was like you had reasoning for making the decision, but I could not figure it out or understand why you had made it. So it is interesting to hear

what your thought process was making that decision. Would you make the same decision again looking back or no? No, I mean, I would certainly like pull them aside and do it individually. Yeah, I mean, I would have done it differently. But I just, that was my thought process, was they could be there for each other and it would make it a little bit easier to process and handle.

And that was my thought. But again, that was, I mean, that it was right. Yeah. You live and you learn. Again, everything is 2020 in hindsight. One thing, actually, that this wasn't even on my thought until we started talking about this. But we've seen leads in the past tell multiple women they love them. You know, I think it started with Ben Higgins.

We saw on Ari Season of the Bachelor, he did it. Pilot Pete did it, if I'm blanked on anyone else. But, I mean, it seems like now it's kind of a consistent thing. Do you wish looking back that you never expressed that you were falling in love or loved anyone until the very end if it was one woman standing? Yeah, you know, the what if game is so challenging because I just, I don't even know, again, with all of this, it's like, what's the right way to handle being in love with three people? Like, do you wait till the very end and withhold those emotions? I mean, in a way, you know, I had fallen in some capacity for Serene as well, and I never told her. And I don't know.

Again, it's like, was it better off for her to be able to recover, not like knowing that I never even told her that. I never gave her that. And so she didn't know until she probably watched it back. But I just, I don't know. Again, it's like I could have waited until the end. But my fear was, is that the way when Serene taught me a lesson when she said is, you know, it's the reason why I sent me home because of how I. because of the feelings that I expressed and of being falling in love with you.

And that moment, it really felt like she was invalidated. And because of that, I thought, well, if these other women don't know where I'm at, they're going to maybe start feeling invalidated and wonder, okay, I need to start putting my walls back up because we're nearing the end of this all. And I have no idea where he's at. And there's certainly no way I can accept an engagement. I mean, I knew there was no way that I could just get to the final day and be like, hey, I get down on a knee and be like, well, you haven't heard this yet, but I love you.

and I want to engage with you. Hey, that's what I did. Well, okay. And it worked for me for a little bit. Well, okay. So I just thought it was better to like make sure that there were no surprises if when I were to get down on a knee and have someone be like, you're getting down on a knee. Like I didn't even know you love me. And so.

And as I saw like when I told, you know, Susie, she was shocked. She's like, I didn't know. That's how you felt. And it was, it was a lot. And I just felt that again, I should tell these. as soon as possible because if realistically I'm going to get engaged to one of these women at the end of it I like I cannot be telling them the day of that just that just seems like a lot to process and I'm sure they will if I didn't tell them until that point they would have put

the walls up is the way that I saw it so I saw another way around it other than to tell them all watching you at women tell all talk to serene and say exactly what you've kind of expanded upon about how she taught you a lesson, I did watch that and kind of go, like I was like, I think I know where Clayton's head is going to go. And I think he's going to just completely open up. And I remember thinking he's got three women and one of those women is, like at least one of these women is probably going to have a tough time with that. And then right into the next episode, we see it on full. But I mean, it really is, and like you two can both understand what I'm saying, like, it is such a weird world. And what is normal outside of it is not normal inside of it.

What is normal inside of it is not normal outside of it. So like trying to navigate it, it is difficult. So like I give you both credit for like owning up, you know, Clayton owning up to your mistakes and both being able to support one another and be here. today. Yeah. Yeah, no, I really appreciate that. And I just hope that most people do give us grace, because, again, I think people see these things. And I have absolutely, I made mistakes. But there's times where I've read different, I've heard different opinions. People say, it's common sense. Why would you do this? I was like, what is common about dating 30 women? Like, nothing is common about that. So I was like, a lot of people that are, you know, there's like the keyboard warriors

that talk about how I would have done this. It's like, all right, you would have done that one, right? But what else would you have done everything else perfectly? And again, that's where I think people. I'm like, just give everybody grace. Not just me as the bachelor, but give all previous bachelor's grace. I even was on the outside, not really haven't watched a ton of the show prior, but I had heard the outcome of some of these other bachelors. And I was like, ooh, that dude, what was he thinking? Like, that guy needs to, you know, he needs to grow up. But then I've now, since I've been on the side of it, I was like, oh, it's really, really, really challenging to be in this position. And I think it requires a tremendous amount of grace. And the people that are

the most understanding are the ones that also went through the same thing. Batch or Bachelorette I've talked to is so understanding. And we're all in this same boat. We're like, we know how strong we are mentally because it takes so much to be able to navigate through this. And no way, no, there's no way you can do it perfectly. Some have done it better than others, absolutely. But, but it's a lot. Yeah. And I think at the end of day, I just I would say for every Bachelorette, not just me and Bachelorette, like, give them grace. Because it is so hard to date multiple people. Because the reason why people don't do that. No, it's, it's so funny. And I'm sure you've gotten this is people are like, oh, you were

able to date 30 women that's so fun like i wish i could do that and realistically when people say that i cringe because i'm like no like it's not as glamorous and fun as it seems we saw with your group of women especially at the beginning with all the drama go going down it's it's very difficult it's very taxing emotionally physically mentally spiritually all the things it's it's a lot luckily i will say this um and you you two are in such a good spot i want you to be able to sit favor this moment and like soak in this your support for one another because it will be tough outside of all this for a little bit. But the silver lining is that Bachelor Nation has a very short attention span and there's always a new season coming. There's always a different

contestant doing something to take the focus off. So it might be tough for a while, but eventually as people start to see you two now in the real world and showing off your relationship and your love and support for one another, people will rally behind you and begin to love you and support you in such new different ways that'll be very special and I think I'm hoping that I'll come for you as a team and for the other women too on your season as well I want to jump all over the place right now because Susie I have to ask you this because it keeps crossing my mind okay so taking it back to Iceland okay um that last week was weird we keep taking it back to Iceland but reality like we've never left Iceland that's literally yeah yeah yeah so much

much has happened but okay and you've seen the show you kind of know how it works so basically you two break up before fantasy suites then jesse comes into your room and says hey you should talk to clayton you go and i'm pretty sure you were very shocked to see clayton's family there had that quick conversation but then the last day because you i'm sure you met with our favorite person carrie fatman he styled you on that last day i'm assuming you knew Clayton was going to propose correct so what did you think you were going like getting all dressed up for it was going to propose I was like what's where did this ring come from as a year I mean don't get wrong it was stunning like someone hold on to that but I was shocked when you went out the rain but what was going through

your mind that last day as you're getting your gown on your you have the beautiful jewelry you're doing your makeup your hair like what did you think you were walking into honestly I feel so naive to say this because yeah i have seen this show i've been watching for like three years now and i did not know i was walking into even a rose ceremony like i know that sounds crazy i didn't know that there was going to be a final rose at that point like i was just so i think i was in just this crazy state of mind at that point where i was like just focusing on like i need clinton to know that i care about him i need him to know how much he means to me and that this you know isn't easy for me i need him to be able to say every I was, like, thinking about the relationship aspect that, yeah, it felt, it feels silly now because I got to wear, actually, that was the gown that I picked out if I were going to get engaged.

And earlier in the week, I remember putting that gown on and having this fear, and I said, I was like, I feel like I'm not going to get the chance to wear this gown. And, like, I think this is, I felt like it was coming to an end. And it was like this moment of like just deep sadness for me where I was like, I'm just so afraid that I'm not going to be the one at the end of this. And but I had picked that gown out for that moment thinking that it was like going to be the gown that I potentially got engaged in. And the next thing I know, Jesse's at my door. I thought it was going to be Clayton when I heard a knock. And we were just going to talk and like maybe, you know, just end on a better note or something. Like, I didn't know what to expect.

And then all of a sudden, yeah, I'm meeting Clayton's parents. Yeah, they asked me to come meet Clayton. And I was happy to come in and say hi to them and stuff. Obviously, like, I know how much they meant to him. But I was like, oh, it's not the best way to meet somebody's parent. And, yeah, I just, I thought, I knew I was walking into something, a conversation, a really glam conversation. But until I walked in and saw the rose sitting there, I was like, oh, my gosh.

I was like, this is the last rose ceremony. I just, it sounds so silly to say because I understand the show, but I didn't know what I was walking into. It really doesn't sound silly at all, to be honest. Like, I think my mindset would be identical to yours because at that point, they had lost any form of typical structure. And, like, especially with you, like, you had left, but you were obviously still there. Like, I had to go through that as well. And then you chatted and you had, like, a meet the family, but you didn't. So, like, I think my thought process would have been like, oh, what is going on?

I didn't know I was walking into this. But I do want to ask you. So I am curious to know, because you mentioned saying going into your fantasy sweet date with Clayton, there was a sense of, like, I don't feel like I'm going to get to wear this dress. And I am just curious to know further insight into, like, your mindset. that going into that date because I did say in the last podcast and please correct me if I'm totally off base here. Also, I do want to call myself out. I did say Team Clayton in the last episode and Susie, I want to apologize to you for saying that because I don't want to think I'm in any way saying I'm invalidating your feelings.

Team Clayton too. I'm over there. Well, we love you both. Team, Team Seizzie and Clayton. Yeah. But can you give Clayton? Can you give Clayton? I love that. um can you just give more insight because i'm really curious into your mindset going into the evening portion of your date and like sitting down like hearing clayton tell you he's in love with you like just can you walk me through everything that that was going through your mind in that first kind of half before things took a a dark turn yeah i think i mean i'll try to be as quick as i can with it

because it's probably so much but going into fantasy sweets um Yeah, that week, I was like, I just can't fathom. I never, ever imagined that he would be in love with all three of us. That was not something that ever crossed my mind. And as you guys know, from being on the show, you talk through every scenario that week. You know, you sit down in your interviews and you talk through every possible scenario for a long time. So I, in my mind, thought, I was like, okay, I've hit every scenario. I've talked this.

I've expressed, you know, what I feel going into this. And yeah, I felt like going into that night, I was like, okay, either Clayton is in love with me and he feels the way that I feel and we're about to walk out engaged or he's found it with somebody else. And I really had this mindset of like, he is told, like, he really is in a position where he can't exploit these relationships however he wants. But if he doesn't know that it's me, I am no longer, I don't want to move forward. Like I want somebody who is going to know and maybe and genuinely like that might be too much to ask for that scenario i really think it depends on the people you know clayton had we've talked about this gabby and rachel are freaking awesome

like and he we've said it like how do you not fall in love with them i fell in love with them like i love both of them as people they're incredible people so i understand now it's like he had three amazing women at the end of it and yeah like he had every right to And I even knew that going in. I was like, yeah, like, this is a very real possibility. But if he doesn't know if it's that it's me at this point, like, I can't endure this any longer. Like, I need to take a step away for myself. And yeah, now looking back, it's like, okay, like, it is a lot to expect the lead to know at that final three. But that was my hope and that was my expectation. And going into that night, it's like, yeah, I just, I thought it was going to go one of two ways. It was either going to be you're it. or maybe not you or it, but no, like, you know, I'm, I'm seeing this through and I want to, I want to pursue you. You're the person that I'm falling in love with or I'm in love with. And, and then I would have continued forward or I thought it was going to be, you know, I think I've found what I'm looking for with somebody else here. And I was like really at

peace with either one of those, which you really wanted like one or the other. Like you wanted it to be like all in on you or like, sorry, you're not the one. That middle ground is like obviously the hardest part. It's so hard. And I really felt like, yeah, and Clayton has even said, he's like, that's not the most like endearing thing to hear because, yeah, you want somebody that's like, I'm going to fight through this with you and I'm going to stick this out for you. And I do, like, look at that. And I'm like, yeah, I can see how that's uneasy for somebody who's in his position, who's got three amazing women at the end. And so, yeah, when the conversation, when he said he loved me, at first I was like, whoa, like, that was not what I was.

expected to hear right now. That just seemed totally. I was like shocked by that, especially coming from my hometown day where I had spoken to my mom and she was like, yeah, I asked him if he loved you and he said that he's just, yeah, not there. And I was like, okay, like, I mean, maybe this is it. Like maybe this is, I'm just not moving forward. And yeah, I feel like to an extent I was there for a long time. I was the first hometown, the last fantasy speech. So I had a lot of time to think through everything and um and get in your head getting my own head so when the conversation became that he was in love with all three people i was just like yeah just totally shocked and yeah i couldn't have prepared myself for that scenario at all i never thought that scenario

do you think it was also so much of a shock because you three women are incredible i will say like I would some of the top three we've seen on any season but you're all so so different so different so was that kind of hard to wrap your mind around because if Clayton's telling you he loves you but then he also told these other to him and he loves them too you're like well what does he want because we're all so different so what is he looking for is that work a lot of the confusion and shock was too I I guess I hadn't really thought of it that way specifically but now looking at it yeah i think i guess don't let me put that in your brain then no i actually will say going into that week i know like the girls and i had a lot of

different conversations than our little sweet in iceland and uh one of the conversations that we that we had yeah i think i said i was like we obviously all have strong connections there's no doubt in my mind we all have a strong connection and i think at this point it's kind of about compatibility because you know you go into fantasy streets and you can ask like are you willing to move are you like I need to be by my family or like you know my job is here and I have to have I have to have support for this and you can ask all of those questions uninterrupted and get all the answers um so I think at that point I was like this is not necessarily about like there's no one who doesn't have a connection but maybe it's about compatibility and so I did yeah I looked at all three of us and

I'm like, yeah, we are very different. We all have very different expectations of what our lives are going to look like. So I considered that for sure. I have two quick, specific follow-out questions for Susie. So my first question is, do you feel like when you sat down at the table, did you feel like you'd obviously run through every scenario? Do you feel like the most likely scenario was he was going to say you're the one or you're not the one because I mean I think the doubt creeps in a lot during that week and then my

second question was I don't even know if this is some like a thought you've entertained but like if Clayton had sat there and been like I don't know who it's going to be but like I haven't said I love you to anyone I haven't been intimate with anyone what how do you think that might have changed things yeah so the first the first question being um wait what was the first one So when you sat down, what was your, like, most likely hypothetical outcome? I think I was hoping that I was hoping for Clayton to be like, no, I've protected our relationship or whoever's, even whoever's relationship it was. Like, I feel like, at least for me and everyone's different. Like Gabby and Rachel, but we all felt different about Fantasy Suites.

We each had a different opinion on them. And that's like to each of us, we're allowed to have those feelings. But yeah, I had hoped that I would sit down and it would be like, you're crazy and you look like an idiot now. Like you've been crying on screen for a whole week, Susie. Like in my mind, I was like, I hope I just like look like an emotional wreck for no reason this whole week. Like I was hoping for that to be like my experience.

But I think I did have that fear creep in. And I was just kind of like, I feel like he's found this with somebody else. Like, I just feel like it's not me. I just, I convinced myself that it wasn't me. And I, yeah, I think that's how I thought it was going to go. But my hope was that it would be the other way. And, oh, yeah, if he had said, yeah, if he had said, you know, I haven't told anybody that I love that I haven't taken those relationships the next level.

I'm just like, you know, moving forward trying to figure out what's best. I would have continued because I think that's where those conversations really come into play of like the deal breakers. that you can you can talk about in fantasy suites that are off camera like anything that might be like a major red flag that you don't necessarily want to say on camera, but you need to have a conversation with that person about. So yeah, I would have absolutely moved forward because I think at that point it's I think it'd be more of like, okay, that's where the compatibility comes in. Right. Okay. Well, speaking of moving forward, I want to know what's in store for the two of you. Clayton, I know you mentioned that you two

are moving in together, but do you know where, Wayne, anything that you can share with us? We're moving out of Iceland guys. We got to that point in the interview. Out of Iceland. You made it. We never need to go back to Iceland. We don't. Yeah, no,

I think for me going into this whole experience, I stepped away from my job and sold my condo and just uprooted myself so that I could really make this have the best chance at like having a lasting relationship from this

whole experience and so with that yeah we're moving in to Virginia right away right wow welcome to Virginia congratulations yay they say Virginia's for lovers

oh yeah Susie we went to Virginia on my season and I had so many shirts and like coosies that said Virginia is for lovers that I'm going to ship them all to the two of you Wait, is that a real thing? Susie didn't just make that up right now. No, that's their, it's their motto.

It's like a state slogan. Yeah. Oh my gosh. That's so funny. I didn't know that. That's awesome. So, yeah, so we're doing that. And then just because, again, I think it makes most sense to if you really find out if

relationship can work once you move in with somebody. And so we just feel like, hey, let's do this. Like, let's find out. And so we're doing that. And then we'll, yeah, we have some exciting things coming up. I'll move straight. and then we'll go back to Scottsdale to grab all of my stuff out of my apartment with my brother, and then we're going to do a road trip across country, probably a day trip.

We still haven't picked out final locations, but we just want to be able to go across to do a road trip, have that experience together, and start building these new memories. I love that. And you know what I will say is it's going to get maybe a little harder right after the finale. and then I promise you it gets easier. I mean, maybe we'll send like Thomas streaking Thrillay or something to like take like the attention off you guys for a minute. But after going through such hardship on the show and being tested while filming after while it's airing, I, it's very hard to come by a challenge that is as difficult as this one.

So if you can make it through like it is truly a test your relationship. Like I have said time and time again, Joe and I have never experienced still anything as hard as going through paradise. And if you can get through this, like, I don't want to say you can get through anything, but like your chances are pretty good. But it will make you stronger if it hasn't already. Yes. So my question is, do you guys have you talked about or created any sort of strategies or plans on how you plan to handle? I mean, you will get love, but like any criticism coming your way kind of. moving forward we haven't really set a plan or or discuss like oh how are we going to navigate

this specifically um i've kind of we both have kind of taken a hiatus this week because i know right now which is great and i'm so grateful for all the support like so many people are commenting and and sending me messages of support but i know that those people are going to be like shook in a couple of days when we walk out together um so i yeah it's i'm expecting doing a turn of the tide for myself. But I just, yeah, I mean, I feel like even just taking a step away from my phone this week has been really good for me just to, because I don't want to see that either because a lot of people are supporting me, but it's bringing Clayton down.

And it's like, you can support both of us and acknowledge that we could, we can both acknowledge that we made mistakes. We can both acknowledge that we could have done better. And we have had the conversations that we need to have. So, I mean, I'll probably try to utilize my social media to explain that in a sense of like, if you support me, then support us because it's, it's only going to make things harder for us individually and together if you don't. Yeah.

Yeah. I think the biggest thing, we just, we're both very rational. She's more rational than I ever thought she would be. It's great, but we have like, we have these tough conversations and we've had them all throughout the season as we've watched it back. and real relationship, you know, kind of conversations that not all of them are pretty, but what's great about it is the two of us can talk through these things. And we have these three, four hour conversations sometimes saying, like, what is best for us?

And we've had multiple conversations like that. And we always grow, we're always a little stronger afterwards. Our connection becomes that much stronger because we can attack anything head on. I mean, nothing is off limits as far as the second one of us sees, the other one struggling, as long as we're ready to talk about, it's like, hey, let's sit down and talk. And we've had so many of those conversations. And so I do agree, Serena, like, with what you said, and I've even echoed with the sentiment to her, just I said, you know, I think, not to say that everything from here and out will be

easy, but everything that we've went through, beyond this point, should, it should not be nearly as challenging. Now, there will be, yes, I mean, immediate blowback. And I think to that, at the end of the day, you just have to understand. that where's it coming from and you realize it's coming from people that don't know you that don't know each other that are probably projecting their own anger and insecurities based off of what they don't like about their own life and so you just realize it's unnecessary I mean I think at the end of day people should see that yes this was a very wild way to find love but like I think it goes

to show like if you fight for what you want and you follow your heart no matter what you face all the adversity you can make it through and if two people love each other that much they can make it anything. And I think that's what the story is about. You know, and certainly we wish we would have both done things better. But at the end of the day, that's what it is. And if people can't see that as love and they still want to be angry about it and upset, they have their rights to feel that way, but it shouldn't impact us mentally. And I don't think it will because I think now we're team. We're together. And there is no more separation and talking about one side versus the other. So if people are all in, that's great. They can support us. And if they're not all in,

say whatever they want but their words really don't mean much to us anymore yeah it's all the haters out there there's an eight old age old adage that says fuck them you know they're not in your relationship well wait what do you think i was saying i don't know but it wasn't that i know that was a shock um well it sounds like you both have such a good head on your shoulders moving forward i mean if there's any advice that i can give you and it sounds like you've already done this this week is to just go off the grid for a bit go off of social media and just there's going to be so much piling in that it's always going to be there whatever just take you know put the phones the computers whatever aside and just focus on you too i think a road trip

honestly will be a great a great little distraction for the both of you um a really good way to continue to get to know each other what is one thing though because pretty soon you're going to be finally able to walk down the street in front of other people you're going to be able to hold hands, you're going to be able to go to Chipotle and order in person. It's the best feeling. Like, it really is such a good feeling. What are you most looking forward to? Like, what's the first thing you two want to do together? Well, I love going out to eat. She keeps saying, she's like, I'm going to take you out to dinner. I'm taking you out to dinner. Yeah. Yeah, because we're going to be in Virginia pretty soon after everything. So there's a few spots at the ocean front where I'm like,

oh, we can go here. We can have like a rooftop view and see that. see the boardwalk and I work part time at a restaurant that's like it's kind of like a it's like a dive bar but it's like massive and so cool and it's like oh it's waterfront it's like it's just like super my vibe and I'm like can't wait to bring you there like it sounds so funny but I'm excited to show him where I actually live now because he's on my hometown but he didn't get to come to Virginia Beach so I'm excited to show him all the all the hot spots oh you guys are going to have so much fun. That's really the best feeling is to be able to sit down across from one another. Order a glass of wine, like with people around you. I will say, though, try to get like a private area

if you can because you will get bombarded at first. So if you want to really be able to enjoy that first side out together, we'd get like a separate room, a separate table in the back, something. Yeah. We'll definitely have to make some requests. Yeah. Yeah. She can pull some strings and she's Yeah, yeah, works there. So we're just excited to do it all. Yeah, we're excited to just do the little things. I think that's everything that we can just do in public, walk outside, walk down a boardwalk. Get ice cream.

Go on a hike. I found out during these trips that I might be liked to us intolerant now. Oh, no. There's a good dairy free stuff. There's pills for that too. Yeah, but just do all the fun stuff. The little things together, just hike, bike, all these things that we love to do. And now we get to do them and we don't have to hide anymore.

So that's pretty sweet. Well, congratulations you, too. It's crazy, baby. Crazy. Okay, we are going to get into a game with you, too, but really quick, we have to ask you this because obviously we do it on every episode. Overall, now that the season is done and you've lived airing and all the craziness, what overall has been both of your roses and your thorns? Ooh. This is my brother. I was not saying, she's my rose.

Yeah. And my thorn is clearly the way that I handle that night by far. All right. Well, we'll leave it at that. I mean, best roses right there sitting in front of us. Okay, so we're going to get into the happy couple game. Now that the world knows you two are together, we can finally celebrate. So we're going to play this game.

It's basically rapid fire. And you either have to answer Susie or Clayton with whatever. we ask you. So to start, who is the better cook? We've done couples cooking, but I kind of feel like I have a slight edge. Yeah, I'm going to say you. Okay. All right. Who is more romantic? She is by far. Yeah. I need help on that one. Somebody help him. Send help. So he's like literally anyone, anyone help this man. He's like, I need the

show dates back. Who is more sobering? One, two, three. Susie. All right. Who is the messy one? One, two, three. Susie. She knew.

She knew before the answer came in the group. She leaves water bottles all over the house. I'm the same way, Susie. I am the same way. That's a girl thing. I don't know why. One of my best friends has like 12 glasses scattered amongst her home. Okay

Who's the funny one One, two, three I'll say Susie I love how she poily points to herself Who spends more money One, two, three It's probably me but she doesn't spend any money She's so frugal

I'm really not that frugal I'm a wild woman I just spend them on trips So I just do it like you know I just Prioritize the money. You're targeted. I get it.

I get it. Okay. Who is the planner? One, two, three. Again, I think we both aren't really. Well, you probably have to really had to. Yeah, I think we're just spontaneous both of us. All right.

Who is more competitive? One, two, three. Me. Really? It's the athlete in you. The athlete, yeah. Can't take that out of me. Who takes up more of the bed?

One, two, three. Me? Really? Is another girl I have his size It's another girl thing She spreads out Pulls all the covers

Yeah I get it I get it It's her domain I'm a couple I'm a cover Teak Why can I speak

A cover thief too Yeah All right Who takes longer to get ready One two three Susie But that's Because it only takes me

Eight Yeah It takes me like eight I feel like neither one of you are high maintenance, which I really appreciate. All right. Last one. Who is always right? One, two, three.

Susan. So he thinks he's always right. You guys are going to end on that one and get us to do a word. That's a good thing we talk about. That's going to be the first thing we talk about once this camera shut down. I'm going to give you some advice. The woman is always right. That's why I said she's always right.

Or in my case, I let Joe think he's always right. But like, I know the truth. truth. You know the truth within us. We're like, you know what we're doing here. Oh, man. You too. Well, congratulations.

I know it was a wild ride. Crazy time getting here. But we really are excited for you to see where, I don't even want to say this journey, just to see where now your life takes you. I mean, you've gotten through hopefully the worst, hardest part. And now you can just celebrate your time together in, you know, normal, normal settings, normal world. So we're so thrilled for you both.

always here if you have any questions need any advice to vent please let us know but thank you both for joining us best of luck all the advice you want is like we can answer any questions to the best for our ability but my best advice would just be to lean on each other communicate with each other just talk things as much as possible and we are really rooting for you guys and wishing you the best we love seeing people find love on this show and we are really happy to see you guys together today yeah as much as I love you I'm glad your season's done buddy I'm sure everybody is very much glad that it's done so I'm happy it's over as well trust me I'm right there with everybody else yeah yeah that was the fun part so go enjoy it I know you have a lot to do today but go soak in these moments

go have fun get out of here you too all right all right thank you guys bye guys good to see you wow we covered a lot with them but I feel like I still could have had them on forever asking every little thing about every moment. I could have happily broken down from episode one with them. I think we really controlled ourselves by just sticking to Iceland. But truly, I had so many questions that hopefully, you know, the, well, I guess we'll never get the answers now. I don't know why I'm saying maybe they'll come out.

It's game over. Season is done. Well, we'll have a wine night with the two of them and get all the good juicy deeds at one point. There we go. You know, after everything, it was a lot. It was a very heavy end to this season. I'm glad to see them happy, to see them smiling.

You know, at the end of the day, people can have their opinions on how the lead handled things or should have handled something. But, you know, he's trying to find love and what fits for him best. And I feel like he's found that with Susie. So I'm very excited to see them and, you know, kind of put all of this behind them and move on. because like we just said, the best is yet to come for them. So I can't wait. Speaking of like sad endings, Serena, I have had such a blast recapping this entire season with you.

You have been such a gem to be doing the podcast with. I'm so sad. This is going to be our last episode together. I'm so sad too. We're going to have to have our weekly chats anyway because I'm going to miss saying your face every week on the podcast. I know. I want to thank you so much for.

having me this season. I really had such a blast. And I want to thank all the happy hour listeners for all your words of encouragement and accepting me on to the podcast. Hopefully I will be back to visit soon. Yes. Well, you are welcome back anytime. Maybe we'll even have you in weekly for the fashion recaps when the next season picks up because you are a professional at that. We all know I am not. So please come join us anytime. We absolutely loved having you. It was such a blast. I mean, I'm really going to miss you. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And a huge thank you to Susie and Clayton for joining us. I know it's going to be they have a lot of press to go through right now and it's going to be a lot for them. So I appreciate them taking time out of their day. But the biggest thank you goes out to all of our Bachelor happy hour listeners. Thank you for tuning in each and every week and sharing your thoughts on this wild journey of a season. I'm just happy that, you know, we have a little break. We can focus on like some life stuff for a while. But, you know, everyone, have a while. a glass of wine because it's time to celebrate. Absolutely. And make sure with that glass of wine,

you hit us up on social. You can follow us at at Bachelor Happy Hour on Instagram. And from there, you will find everything that you need to know to follow us on Twitter and TikTok. And Bachelor Happy Hour is available on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen. And you can listen ad free by subscribing to Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts or the Wondery app. And for the last time, thank you Becca, and thank you to all of our happy hour listeners. We will talk to you soon. I'm Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, host of the psychology podcast. Here's a clip from an upcoming conversation about how to be a better you. When you think about emotion regulation, you're not going to choose an adaptive strategy which is more effortful to use unless you think

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