Bachelor Happy Hour - Race, Diversity, and Bachelor Nation

Episode Date: June 9, 2020

In an honest and emotional episode of “Bachelor Happy Hour,” Rachel and Becca speak candidly about the problems with diversity within Bachelor Nation. Rachel discusses what must change and why in order to support Black Lives Matter.Be sure to rate and subscribe so you never miss an episode.See omny.fm/listener for privacy information.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to shock incarceration on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back, Happy Hour listeners. Today we have a very different episode than what you've probably ever heard from Rach and I on Bachelor Happy Hour for you. Before we get started, I want to first highlight the fact that our last two episodes when we had Gina and Carrie-on were recorded and released prior to all of the events that have taken place in our world today.

You know, they were fun for, us and lighthearted, but there's much more serious matters that have been going on in our world that we want to address. So obviously with everything that's happening today, we don't want to take anything lightly. So instead of doing our regular style episodes, this isn't going to be as lighthearted. We're going to dig a little bit deeper and shifting the conversation over to some very important topics that are at the forefront of our attention. So in the last few weeks, our world as we know it, or as we have chosen to know it, has been greatly shaken. We've gone from this global pandemic to being quarantined and away from everyone, you know, into something that's completely

different. And the world is undoubtedly changed, but it's one of the most important moments for our generation. And it's this modern civil rights movement that is taking place. And the magnitude tuned up everything that's happening is just so intense. It's so important. It's so heavy and it's uncomfortable, but it's something that we necessarily that, but it's something that's necessary for us to talk through and address. So, you know, Rach, I don't know if you can hear it in my voice. It's a little shaky because it is probably the most deep, heavy conversation that we've had on this podcast to date. Yeah. And I think it's important to know that, like, I love that you talked about how we had some pre-recorded episodes, and that's why we haven't addressed it. I don't want

anyone to think that we've been shying away from this. Becca actually reached out to me like a week ago and wanted, maybe even longer than that. And you wanted to address some of the things that have happened in our country, in Batonation, and just so we could have this open and honest conversation. And I think that's important for people to know that. And I think it's also important to know that we aren't scared to have these conversations. They are uncomfortable, but this is what all of this is about. It's about making you feel uncomfortable because as black people, we've been uncomfortable for centuries. And it's crazy to watch everything that's happening right now in our country because it's almost as if you are just now becoming as outraged, as non-Blacks,

you're becoming as outraged and as disturbed as we have been feeling every single day of our lives. You know, sometimes you feel it heavier than others. The George Floyd incident isn't isolated. This is something that we have literally seen happen six years ago this past summer with the same words being shouted out as the life was being choked out of a black man. We aren't new to this. It's just now, because of everything that's happening in the world, we have your attention. And so since we do have your attention, it's so important that Becca and I address this right now. And we show, we give an example of what it is to be a black woman and a white woman and to sit down,

with each other and have a mutual respect for one another and have these meaningful conversations to hopefully create change because that's what we want to do. We want to talk to each other and hopefully reach our bachelor nation community and maybe you can then go out and have these uncomfortable conversations with some of your friends, some of your family members, your co-workers. And so hopefully we can all work together to create this change that is necessary for our country. That's Long. Long. Overdue. Yes. And Rach, you just made a good point. And it's something that for me, so I went to bed last night. Well, I shouldn't even say I went to bed. I had such anxiety and just I was sick to my stomach over knowing that what's going on in this country is a change that's needed. But I prayed like, let the right words come to me today because I'm not, and I mentioned this to you many times, like, I'm not the most eloquent, articulate speaker. I'm really going to try hard in this because I think it's so necessary and needed to get

our points across as best we can. But I'm sitting in bed, trying to sleep, freaking out over everything that's going on, you know, looking forward to having this conversation on this podcast. But it's still, because it is so heavy, it's not one that I've had with you before or with millions of people listening that it's new to me. And I'm thinking, like, if I'm feeling like this during this night, like, imagine how Rachel and the black community has felt for decades and centuries for so long. Like I need to step out of myself in like my anxiousness and my uncomfortableness to know that like

hopefully this is we're moving in the right steps to to have this conversation and bring positive change. That as you said, it's so long overdue. Yeah. It is long overdue. And it's, it's, I'm trying to think of like where to even begin this conversation. Because first of all, I want to acknowledge that there's so much going on in the world, but then people are also going through things personally, and specifically, I mean you, Becca, and I just appreciate that you're willing to have this conversation because I know that you've experienced loss in these last couple of weeks. I know that you're going through your own thing, and despite you going through things personally, you still have taken the time to not only be vocal about what's going on,

but also to reach out and check on me. I have friends who aren't going through anything that have not reached out to me. And believe me, I'm keeping a mental note of who hasn't. And I think that it's during these times that you really see people's character. And so I do want to preface that,

like just this whole conversation with you have been going through your own personal thing, yet you've still been very considerate of what your black friends are going through at the same time. that. I'm very grateful and I appreciate that. But where to start? Where to start? I feel like I've been extremely vocal with what's going on because how can I not? Let's be honest, I'm always vocal, right? I always have something to say. But with what's happening in our country, it's almost,

if you're outraged by what's going on, you also have to take a deep look into what, into your life and kind of how you've responded to, and I'm speaking in the general myself as well, how you've responded to the things that are going on in the past and even in the present right now and just take a look at the things that you are affiliated with

and you are attached to and do they align on the right side of things. Okay, so where am I going with this? Bachelor franchise. How do I not start talking about this? Because I'm looking at the things that I align myself with and what I'm affiliated with and where they stand. I'm not just looking at friends. I'm

looking at, you know, systems as well. You're hearing this phrase systemic change being used a lot. And they're talking about the wealth gap, employment, police brutality, or just the police system. And the Bachelor franchise is a system. And it made me, it, I like, I've really been self-reflecting on being a part of this franchise. And it isn't the first time that I've spoken out about the franchise. But, oh, God, I might get emotional. I thought I was done crying. I've been so proud of myself. Ever since the officers have been arrested and I heard Obama addressed the nation, I've been like really in a good place. And now I might get emotional. But I, you often hear me say, why, that I've never watched the show before.

And you hear a lot of contestants say that. I think what's different from me or people of color who say they've never watched the show versus white people who say they've never watched the show is that there's a reason I never watched the show. It's not because I'm not a fan of reality TV. God knows I love my share of good reality TV. The reason I didn't watch The Bachelor is because The Bachelor did not appeal to me in any kind of way because it was notoriously known in the black community

that the Bachelor was not for us. It was a running joke. You only make it so if you're black, you only make it past week three. There's never a lead. It's just something that we've come to tolerate and come to expect that that is what the Bachelor franchise stands for. So never in a million years did I think that I would be a part of this.

And it was my coworkers who signed me up for the show. And my first comment was, I laughed and I go, you guys, everybody knows black people don't go far on that show. And I even said that in my interview with The Bachelor. I was like, let's talk about this because black people are not known to be on this show. And I remember, I'm going to say Bennett. I don't know if y'all are going to take this out. But I remember Bennett saying that is very true and that's something that we've struggled with.

And I want to be able to talk about it with you. So I was like, okay, this is great. I can be up front about the lack of diversity. and your struggles with racism. So that made me feel more, not racism, but your struggles with race. And having race displayed on the show. Let me say that again. Your struggles with having race displayed on the show, reflected on the show.

And it made me feel like, okay, then maybe I can step into this. But jumping back, I remember the girl saying, no, Rachel, if you go on this show, you'll go far. And I thought, why not, I'll do it. So as I went through The Bachelor, and then I was asked to be The Bachelorette. I immediately said no. I didn't, I wanted no parts of this. But it was somebody stepping up to me and saying it's been so nice to see a representation on the show. It's been so nice to see you go far because the rumors were out there at this point. And I thought, you know what, it's bigger than me. I hope to find love on this show, but there's no way they're going to

find someone I can match with on this show. I was, I'm glad I was wrong. But I hope to find love on this show. I thought it's bigger than me. They need representation and I felt that I could do it well. I also hoped that I could start a trend in the right direction. My hope was that more people that look like me would start to watch the show. More people that look like me would apply to this show. They would be visible on the show. The audience would learn to be more accepting of the show and we would eventually see more leads of color on the show. None of that has happened. in three years. And Rich, I remember watching, I think it was one of your first weeks when you were the lead.

You were sitting in an interview and you were having this moment and you were crying. And you brought up, you know, there's so much more behind this for me. Like, it's not just you going to find a partner. Like for me, it was easy. I went on and being like, I'm going to find love. This is going to be fun. For you, there was so much more to it. It carried such a different weight.

And I remember watching you in that interview being like, the pressure she must be feeling right now is probably astronomical. And since then, like, that hasn't changed. And that you have been the only person of color as the lead. And you have fought so hard to change that. And it's like, maybe this is now the moment where the franchise sees, maybe we can change and we need that change. And I want to say, apologize for me for,

I don't think I had that big of a voice before when people would be like, oh, who do you want to be the Bachelor, Bachelor, Bachelorette? I was like, oh, you know, whoever I'm friends with or whoever, like, has a good running chance. Like, I didn't put much thought into it and behind this, and I apologize for that.

Yeah, no, I mean, you definitely, I know where your heart is, and I understand that, and I think, and this is something a theme that I think will continue to, we'll talk about as we continue this open conversation, but people are directly, you're affected by what impacts you. So you don't wake up every morning in the mirror

and see a black person. I do. So I'm reminded all the time. If I'm not reminding myself, I'm reminded every single time I step outside my doors that I am black. I feel it. And so it's always on my mind because I'm directly impacted by it. That's not the case for people who aren't black. That's just human nature. That's just what it is. It's not even, I've always, I've always been, since I've been a part of the franchise, I have always spoken out about the lack of diversity because that was my motivation for saying yes to being the Bachelorette. So I can't forget what, why I decided to do this in the first place. I think what's been really tough for me is the lack of support that I have seen from the franchise. And I've been vocal as far as the

leads, but I haven't been as vocal at other things that have really bothered me when it comes to this franchise. And I think what you're also seeing happening, and I just watched, was watching ESPN, and I was watching Maria Taylor go in, and she was unleashed in a way that I've never seen her before. And something that she said was, I feel for the first time that I can actually speak out and say things unapologetically because of what's happening in our that I never have before. And that's almost how I feel about the franchise. I've always been critical of no lead.

But I haven't been critical in general about the way that the franchise moves. And if I don't speak out, then I'm also complicit to the way that this franchise runs. And frankly, it is embarrassing for me to be the only lead of this franchise. And it is embarrassing for me to be affiliate. with it. And I'm tired of pretending and making excuses for the lack of diversity that is displayed

in this franchise. It's not because you're not having qualified candidates. It's not because black people aren't coming to the show to try out for it. It's not because somebody else was better. It's not because the lead, you know, was didn't, wasn't attracted to people of color and they didn't make it to the top. It's none of that. It's. It's not of that. it falls all on the franchise. There is no excuse as to why they have casted for 40 seasons and there has been one person of color. It doesn't make any sense and it is a form of racism. It is a form of subtle racism. I don't care any way that you slice it. It is because you are making a choice not to actively place a person of color as the lead. And after watching,

And I spoke out about this during Mike's, when Mike Johnson wasn't chosen for The Bachelor. I said time was up because after I saw the way that you concocted the relationship between the same-sex relationship between Demi and Christian, not saying that they didn't really like each other, but the fact that you brought in Christian who is not affiliated with this show. So we could see our first same-sex relationship and it was a beautiful thing. lets me know that you have the power to do absolutely anything that you want including having a lead of color you used to cast

for the lead you would choose anybody that you wanted to and you never chose a person of color now here we are with qualified candidates who make it far used to be oh they don't make it far enough well they're making it far enough so now what is the reason the reason is that you are perpetuating you've built a franchise that perpetuates

and mirrors exactly what is wrong in our society and you continue to play into an audience that is willing to accept it and I'm tired of it and I think I'm also tired of not feeling like the franchise has my back. There have been a number of times that contestants have done racist things or said it and the franchise is completely silent on it. You don't have our backs. You don't make us feel like it's okay and I'm sick of pretending like I'm fine with that because I'm not. There's no reason that the franchise should not have put out a statement in regards to what Victoria Fuller said. Now, I'm going to also say that Victoria Fuller has reached out to me and she gave me a very hard, sent me a very heartfelt message so I don't

want to not acknowledge that. But the franchise should have spoken out about it. There is no reason that the franchise should not have spoken out when Hannah Brown set the N-word. You should have said that even though this person is a contestant in our, you know, from our franchise, we do not uphold those beliefs. We do not believe in that and we do not support that and we stand behind our contestants of color. There should be, and I know we'll touch on this too, they should have spoken out and put out a statement when the Garrett situation came up with the problematic social media behavior. There should have been a statement that came out when you casted Lee, who was openly racist on my season. And instead, you continue to let the black people speak

out about the wrong that is done to black people. I was the one who spoke out against Lee. Nobody from the franchise said anything. And I am tired of having to be the black person to speak out against things that are done to black people. It should be the franchise. They are silent when they should be standing up for your black contestants. And it makes it seem as if you are complicit with this behavior. And I have to say it, they are part of the problem. You might think that it's on a minor scale when it comes to, oh, it's just the batch of franchise,

but no, you are part of the problem. You are the reason that I get attacked for holding somebody accountable for something that they do that is racist because you perpetuate a product that for an audience that wants to receive that, like only wants to receive, a whitewashed product and they feel like they can attack people of color when they step out

and they say anything because I am constantly attacked on social media by Basternation. This is who you are playing into and I have a huge problem with it. And I'm at the point right now where I'm so frustrated and I've had it up to here that I no longer, if I don't see change in this franchise, I'm done, like done. So what does that say for you as a franchise when you have pushed away, your only lead of color because of how you have behaved and how you have acted and run this entire

franchise. That says a lot. Your person of color is fed up and she's had enough because she feels like you haven't had her back. When I stepped into this franchise, I was led to believe that the role that I was playing was going to make a change and make a difference. And it hasn't.

I'm not kidding. I'm done. Yeah. And Rachel, to back you up, I mean, the amount of even within the past couple weeks since everything with George Floyd has really started and taken off I have like for me personally as a white 30 year old I have received so many DMs attacking me that I can't even fathom the amount that you have gotten and for all of those listening

I don't know if we've ever talked about this before but Rachel and I are in a group chat with all of the bachelets well for most of them and and we're in the process of putting together what was supposed to be a lighthearted fun video which has turned into much more than that it's turned into now especially you rachel worrying how people are going to attack you if we all as all the veterans post this video and someone's going to say well why isn't hannah brown part of it or why isn't so so and so part of it there's so much more to it now that if i'm getting messages like that i can't even imagine the amount that you're getting and it's so sad because social media has taken over our lives

in a way and I think coming from the franchise my experience is so much different than yours but I felt like I kind of came off the show and yes I'm still part of it because I'm part of the podcast yes I'm so part of it because I do The Bachelor Live on stage tours I'm still in it in a way but I've talked to multiple contestants who feel like you kind of just come off the show and they like spit you out and you've been used for what your time is on the show, and then it's done. And you don't really have anywhere to turn. You don't know what to do in terms of anything related to the franchise business,

social media, talking about now the franchise as a whole and the change that we need to see within. And so, like, and even probably what, three weeks ago, we would not have been able to talk about this on this podcast. And so this is where, for me, as a white lead who has been off the show now for a couple years, I'm glad we're starting to see this change. I'm glad we're able to finally have this conversation

and hopefully people around us and within the franchise and who have watched the show for years can see that there has been a problem. And we need to acknowledge that and move forward from that. And I think that this is the first step. And do I wish it would have changed sooner? Yes. Do I think that we still have a huge ways to go?

Yes, but at least we're making steps. in the right direction, but I can't even for you to feel this way and you bring such a good perspective to my world and hopefully to anyone listening's world that it should have happened sooner. Yeah. It should have happened sooner and

there have been so many excuses made like anytime someone speaks out and it's usually Chris Harrison because he's the face of the franchise, it's like bullshit. Like that's no like that's not true. The reason that it's not happened

is because my season as the only black lead was one of the lowest rated seasons. And Mike Fleiss was, the creator of the show was interviewed and someone asked him about it and he said that it's very telling of who our audience is. And he said in a Trumpish kind of way. Well, I was so proud that he acknowledged that and I thought, my gosh, this actually means that you recognize what the problem is and you're going to do something to change it. Nothing's been done. So you recognize that you have an audience that isn't receptive to a lead of color, but yet you continue to play into that. And I get it. It's a business. It's money at the end of the day. And if you have lower ratings, then you have a chance of your show being canceled. So you want to do something, you want to put out a product that is going to be better received.

Forget fixing the problem. Forget stepping outside of the box. And saying, you know what? No, we've been a problem for years and we're actually going to do something that doesn't contribute to the problem. We're going to do something that helps it. Nope, you continue to play into it. And so it's that kind of behavior why I say, I don't want it anymore. I don't want to be a part of that. I have had, I have great friends that are behind the camera. I have made great friends that have been on camera and I will take that with me. But I no longer want to put on a happy face and pretend like I'm okay with everything this franchise is doing when I'm not. And I think, oh, go ahead. Oh, I was going to ask you. So I know, I think it was when I

probably first sort of this podcast with you. And we might have been talking off cameras. But you had made a comment, like, you know, Becca, they're not going to have another person of coloris to lead. And, you know, after the whole mic tone. something went down. Do you think because of what we're seeing now in this country that that's going to change, that even if they view it as, you know, we had lower ratings or it could produce lower ratings like because of everything we're seeing and hearing that, regardless of that, it needs to change and we need to put a person of color. I mean, yes, we announced Claire as the next bachelor's rep, but moving beyond that, do you think there will be a change? I think that there

should be enough outrage for the people who watch it. I mean, I've been asked, question by fans and I actually like spoke to a group of students by this and they said that they told me I feel guilty watching the show knowing that there's so many issues wrong with it but yet we still watch it and I said listen then you need to be the change if you see something that you have a problem with then speak out it can't just be me it's the same reason argument behind black lives matter like obviously you're not valid valuing people of color when it comes to the franchise because you continue to ignore what it is that we're saying. So how much more powerful will it be if non-black people actually speak out and say we have a problem with what you're doing, we're not okay with it?

And so that's what I encourage people to do is speak out if you have a problem with it. I think that there is going to be enough pressure because of what's going on, that they're going to have to do something. But it still doesn't rest well with me that this is what it takes for you to actually feel the pressure. to cast the lead of color. Otherwise, you would continue to sit comfortable in your space and do what you've been doing for the last 19 years, you know? And so I just, it almost plays, not almost, it does. It plays into the whole Black Lives Matter versus White Lives Matter,

which is what, you know, another topic I want to get into, which is what we're also seeing in this country. It's almost as if I'm saying, hey, black lives matter, is about, which we've been talking about, I don't know why the light bulb is just now going off for everybody else. The message didn't change. It's, we've been saying,

hey, black lives matter too. It's not only black lives matter. It's, hey, we matter as well. Value us in the same way that you value your own lives. It's just that simple. And that is almost what I'm screaming to the franchise.

value us listen to what I'm saying show you care like oh I hear you and you want to make a change but actually it just falls on deaf ears unless I actually see you put forth that action so value us too honor us make it make it matter as well show that your black lives contestants your black contestant's lives matter as well just as much as these other contestants that you've continued to make the lead of this franchise yeah um No, go ahead. I was going to say, in playing into the Black Lives Matter, I mean, an argument I hear daily in my DMs and in conversations is the whole, and, and Rich and I talked about this

a little bit beforehand, before we started recording of, you know, why do, especially me as a white person and people, why do people say like, why do, why are we saying black lives matter? Why don't we say all lives matter? It's because, well, people, we as white people have been privileged for so long. Like, we haven't had to wake up and wonder, like, you know, are we going to be safe to go outside today? Like, where are we going to get our next meal? There's so much that plays into it.

And this is the moment where we're not, as you said, we're not saying only Black Lives Matter, but their voices need to be heard. And we need to step up as such a huge majority who have these voices to be heard to back you up and be allies and be your support system when and where you need it. And so for people to say, oh, well, all lives matter okay but in this case in this instance this movement is speaking up for our black friends and people who have been oppressed for literally centuries for so long yeah i get the question a lot of why why are black people so angry and like it frustrates me and i i tried to spell it out

in a blog post and tried to say because you're outraged and disturbed by George Floyd, but this happened with Eric Garner, which I just spoke about. And we've seen this before. And with countless others, too many hashtags, too many names, we've been marching, we've been yelling, and it hasn't been recognized. And that's where the frustration built up. We've been saying, please honor and make our lives matter to the same level as yours. And I'm happy that, yeah, it's taken to this point.

It's probably the perfect storm of COVID and of unemployment, of back-to-back events in May where we have your undivided attention. And it's where you're sick in the way that we are, which is what we need. But I think that what also needs to happen and you touched on this is that you have to start recognizing your white privilege. And I saw this amazing TikTok. And you know how I feel about TikTok. But I saw this amazing TikTok video where it was Twitch, Ellen's DJ, and his wife, Allison, where they were holding up, did you see this? And they were holding up both hands. And the person was saying, you know, take a finger away if you've ever been pulled over, you know, because of the way you looked.

Put a finger away if you've ever been, someone's grabbed their purse when you've walked, when you've gotten on the elevator with them. Put a finger away if another person was walked across the street because of the way you look. And at the end of this, Twitch had no fingers left, and she still wasn't even done asking all the questions, the moderator.

And the only one that Allison, who's a white woman, had taken away, is that raise your hand if you've had to talk to your children about the fact that they're black because she has is in an interracial relationship and she has a black child by racial child but who will be seen as black to the world so I that to me and at the end of it it's like look at how many fingers you have up still look at how many fingers you don't that is white privilege and I think right now people are starting to recognize and be aware that they have white privilege rather than be offended by it people used to get defensive when you said

oh, but it's your white privilege, and then that's when you have the all lives matter, all lives matter. And it's like we're not saying that yours don't. We're not saying good people don't matter. We're not saying police don't matter. It's just that we're saying make us matter too. Because historically in this country, we have not mattered. And I was on Nick Viles' podcast about this and I just want to like briefly say it again on this podcast. But the reason we feel like our lives don't matter in this country is because they haven't. You know, from the time we were kidnapped off the shores of Africa. Like, we didn't ask to be a part of this country. We were kidnapped. We were brought here on slave ships. Most of us died on the way here, either of starvation or disease. And then when we did get here, we were placed on a platform,

chained, sold like we were animals based on how strong we looked, whether we looked like we could bear a lot of children. And then from there, we were taken to the plantation. We were beaten. We were raped. We were not called by our names. We were not allowed. We were not taught to read, right? You weren't allowed to talk in your native language. A religion that wasn't yours was forced upon you. You had nothing. And then even when slavery ended, you still had no rights in this country. We were considered three-fifths of a person. Imagine that. You're not even deemed an entire, a whole person. Then you have other laws, segregation, Jim Crow, that have continued to hold us back as black people. It's it's the list goes on and on and I don't know if you've seen this

documentary but there's this documentary called 13th which talks about with the 13th amendment is about abolishing slavery but it talks about all the ways that we've still are continued to be enslaved as black people by systems like the prison system like the war on drugs and it's very very informative and I encourage everyone to watch it if you haven't because it really breaks down how black people have been oppressed in so many different ways in this country. And that is why we are screaming Black Lives Matter, because we are just simply asking for you to put us on the same page and on the same level that you're on. Rachel, going back when we were talking about the term white privilege, and as you say,

like people used to get so offended by this. I think the word privilege has in itself has such a bad connotation. And here's the thing. Like I grew up in obviously a white family in a predominantly white community in Minnesota. And I grew up and I had amazing role models. I'm very lucky for that. Like we grew up by the golden rule. Like treat others as you would want to be treated, which I try to to live by. But I also now, as I'm getting older and growing up and educating and learning more and talking to people about this, actually having this conversation to start with, which is something that, let's be honest, I probably wouldn't have had with friends when I was back in college. It's, you know, it's not something that we talked about growing up in high school. And so

the fact that we're having this conversation now is the right step. But to acknowledge that that it is there, the white privilege is there, whether we knew about it when I was growing up. up or not like at least now we're acknowledging it and i had a point and i just lost it and i'm so sorry um that's okay i was going off on a tangent um but and for me you know it's and i have to admit it it's taken me a lot longer like knowing things now i wish i would have known this when i was 18 i wish i would have known this when i was 12 even talking to my sister who was a preschool teacher she's like how can we start enforcing this at such a young age to realize like where people come from and that everyone has a different background and that whites are privileged to a certain

extent where they don't have to worry about certain things like you know richel i'm sure you probably had to worry about growing up and so it's like for people for me i had a conversation with somebody a couple days ago and she's like where does it start and where does it end she's like yes i believe that black lives matter but i want to be kind to all people and so where do i start and where does it end. Like she was watching the riots and these protests and everything go down these past couple nights on the news. And she's like, so where does it end? And this was prior to, in the case of George Floyd, this was prior to any of the officers being arrested and especially the three remaining officers being arrested and charged. And so she's like, is it once Derek Chauvin or

Chauvin, once he's arrested, does it end? Or once the other three men are arrested? And I'm like, quite honestly, I don't know. I was like, and this is a conversation that you can have with me, but you can have with so many other people, but you just have to start somewhere. And there's, there was a post on Instagram that I saw and I had reposted on my story of there's different ways. People react and try to hopefully aid and assist in different ways, whether it's going to a protest, whether it's speaking up for somebody. who needs it in that moment, whether it's donating, whether it's taking part in different organizations

that you can get involved in. There's all these different lanes, and you have to choose, like, what's best for you. I mean, for me personally, it would be super easy to donate and put my money out there. But to me, that's personally not enough to somebody else that could be difficult based upon financial means, but you have to start somewhere,

and it's beyond just posting a black square. It's beyond that. It's like actually taking, charge and action, which is, and I, and Rachel and I want to get into this with Garrett, with my fiance, about it's more than just posting a black square and saying Black Lives Matter or Black Out Tuesday, where do you start and where do you continue to go from there? Before you get into Garrett, I want to say this, because I want to answer your question about, like, where do you, where does it start? Where does it end? Does it in when the officers are arrested?

And the answer to that is, I don't know when it ends. It's like, I think race. racism will always exist, but it's more of chipping away from, you know, like the, there's this thing about the, it's like an iceberg, right? Like, what we're, what we're seeing, there's so much more underneath the surface of it. But it's about chipping away at the ice. And I heard somebody say this, that racism, you know, everyone's talking about, you got to read up on it, you got to learn on it. At the end of the day, it's a hard. It's a hard. heart issue. What is in your heart? And is that enough to change it? And it's not this overt racism where we're running around in hoods with confederate flat, you know, white sheets with confederate flags wrapped around us, burning crosses in black people's yards. I think people think, oh, I'm not like that. So it's different. It's this subtle internalized racism that you have to fight. It's the covert racism that's the scariest type of racism. But to answer your question too about will it end? I think what people have to remember that maybe people who are

just now understanding the movement and are being educated on it is the reason black people are still, not just black people, but the reason people are still protesting is because if you recall of the 1992 riots, L.A. riots, when Rodney King's, the beating of Rodney King, the officers going on trial and the officers getting off. The riots came because the officers got off. What you're seeing now is because of what happened and because they weren't charged. We still have to go through a trial. We need to determine if they're going to be convicted. That's why the fight isn't over. And as black people, we've seen George Zimmerman get off. We've seen the officers in Rodney King and the Rodney King case get off. We've seen Philando Castile,

which happened in Minneapolis as well, a murder right on Facebook Live. And he got off. And so we're hopeful, but we're skeptical because we know what can happen. It's not the end of the story. And even as George Floyd were focused on that, there have been other cases that have continued to pop up about people dying at the hands of the police. So when will it end, Becca? I mean, we can at the end talk about ways we can help, but I don't know.

I don't know. Yeah. And that's the thing. I don't know if it ever will end. There's always going to be corruption and people who want to provoke things in such a bad negative way, but I have to try to have faith and try to have a voice and try to continue to fight for what I believe in, which is what I want to get into in terms of Garrett. Because I don't know if people are listening.

I mean, you know, hopefully you've been watching the news and I've seen everything go down. You've seen the Black Lives Matter and the protests in this movement that's been taking place. But Garrett, my fiance, not the Garrett on Hannaby season, but my fiancé yesterday had put out a post that was the Black Square with a blue thin line through it and basically talking about, you know, cop lives matters. Cop lives matter too. And I've had all day long yesterday. I've had a conversation all night long. I've had a conversation with him. And Rachel and I had a conversation before this. And I want to come at this in a way where this is not easy to talk about because I want to, Garrett is my fiance. And I love him. And to his core, I believe that he is a good person.

What he posted yesterday, I don't align with and I don't agree with. And I've talked to him about this. And the main reason is I think in his mind and even talking to him about before starting this podcast in his mind he's saying well I want to be able to support my friends and family in law enforcement and in his mind it's so like black and white and that's it and I want to support black lives and I want to support cops in my mind that is taking away from the bigger issue at hand which is what we're talking about which is this underlying racism in our country which is the white privilege him and I have grown up to, you know, and now recognize. And it's taking away from the real reason why we're hopefully in this fight.

And I'm not saying that I don't think, and Rachel, please jump in. And I want to hear your point of view and your take on this. I don't think where he was coming at it, I don't think he meant it in a malicious way. I do think it was tone deaf and it was the wrong time and it was the wrong message. sentiment and I personally am trying to have conversations my family is personally trying to have conversations with him about this and talk in a line and see points of view um I'm very stubborn so it's hard for me to see other people's points of view like where he's coming from um but I want to address that and and and I don't want to take away from this entire conversation because it's so

much more than than him but but seeing what is posted and what's going on and his side of things is what is very prevalent, I think, throughout our country. You're saying what he posted, his line of thinking is what's prevalent in our country? I think for him, he doesn't realize the extent. And I think he posted it thinking, you know, I want to support the cops. Like that bottom line, that was his mentality. And I'm trying to get him to see the bigger picture and to see, but you're taking away from this movement. that that black people have worked so hard for and that white people are finally stepping up more

and having a greater voice in. And I think the thinking where it's like, oh, you know, but I want to support everyone is, I'm not saying that like the support for people is wrong, but like where you place it at times is not correct to me. I don't know if I'm making sense. You are making sense, but before I give my opinion, The one thing, when I saw Garrett's post, I was taken aback. And I was like, well, damn. I mean, there's so much going on. I've been looking forward to this conversation that I have to have with Becca.

And now we've got to talk about this. Because if I don't, I'm a hypocrite. Because one, I speak out when I'm offended or things affect me. but also I speak out like when it's just wrong. So when I read his post, I think what was so troubling for me in addition to just the thin blue line is that I don't understand when he says,

I've listened, learned, helped, supported, and I've grown. And then everything thereafter contradicts that entire line. so before I even like give my whole thought on it what is it that Garrett and I think people also listening want to know this what is it that he has learned and how is it that he's grown because we don't see it with this statement I think for him and I don't want to put words in his mouth that's not my place but knowing him and where he's coming from I think when he posted this and when he wrote out these words I truly think he was seeing it in a one-track mind of a couple days ago I posted for the Black Lives Matter but he has a lot of friends and family in law enforcement

that was a major thing for him growing up and I think he was like but I see now my buddy's partner I think what triggered him is his buddy's partner got shot in the back of a head during one of these riots and he's like I want to stand by the cops too and to say that I think that there's good cops out there, which there are, but I also think when I say it's taking away from the movement, I try to say, but Garrett, like, think of all of, like, the people in the black community who have had to deal with this, who have been

dealing with police brutality and to get pulled over and ask point blank before anything's even said, like, how many warranted out for your arrest? Like, they have had to deal with this, and the black communities had to deal with this to a far greater extent than we'll ever know. And I think the scent, I think his heart is in the right place. I think it's bad timing and it does come across his tone deaf. And this is something that he learned. He said that he's learned and he's grown. And the reason that that statement sticks out to me is because, and in touched on it before, that he has had problematic behavior on social media that plays right into this post. And so when you say you've learned and you've grown,

I'm assuming that you're saying from what had happened two years ago. I think in this case, I think for him and again, I don't want to put words in his mouse when he has typed those words I've learned and I've grown. I think it's from this finally recognizing that we do have an underlying white privilege, that we were privy to certain things growing up that a lot of other people in this country haven't been but i think in that case that's what he meant again i don't know and i definitely will ask him and and one thing too is before i came on this podcast he he made a comment and and i don't i i would like him to be more vocal and to whether it's on a podcast or whether it's on an instagram live or a whatever it might be i would like him to address also more of the

the back history to it and the problematic likes that occurred two years ago in his mind and and it's not okay. I'm not justifying it. But he, for some of them, he legit did not read the comments, which I don't agree with. I don't think that's okay. I think you need to be reading. And if you want to double tap something, you need to be able to defend it and say why. And in that case, he didn't. And so he even said today, he's like, well, I want to come on and say something because he's like, I think in the past when I was double tapping, I wasn't reading through the whole thing. And he's like, and that's what I feel like people are doing from my post right now is they're seeing, they're seeing this black box with the thin blue line and basically taking it as like cop's lives matter. And that's that is what it means.

That's 100% what that means. I don't care what he wrote after it. That's what it means. Yeah. And so I think that's how he's correlating the two in that regard. And so again, like it's not, I need to stand up for. I don't believe in something, and I don't think that that was the time or the place or the right sentiment. But I think for him, and I want him to speak on this. I do. Um, we're struggling to

right now. Like, this isn't, there's a lot going on and now I'm dealing with this. And I, and I told you Rachel early, like, I'm literally trying to wrap my head around everything and to figure out, like, where do we go from here? And so it's a, it's a tough position. And I don't want to, and I don't want to be like, woe is me, but I'm really just trying to figure it out and see. Because I know him more than most people. I know him more than you do and than anyone listening. And I've lived with him for the past two years to see him change. And he has become more understanding, but there's still a lot of growth and more education and changing of mindsets that I would like to see take place. Yeah. So, and I think that it's very brave of you to have to, and hard for you to have to speak out

against your fiance and say what you know like how you feel and I know you've gotten a lot of backlash for it and I know you've also been going through your things personally and when I spoke to you that was my first thought is like man she's already going through some things and now she's got to deal with this um and you and I have talked and nothing that I'm about to say is what I haven't already told you I would also like to say that Becca told me that I could say to not hold back I would just like to preface that. She told me that to hold back. And I said, you know, but I wanted her to know that I am actually struggling and how to respond

because Becca and I do have a friendship and I genuinely care about you and your well-being. And so I acknowledge how hard this is for you. But as a black woman, it is very important for me to tell you how Garrett's Post made me feel. and this is taking it back because this is not an isolated incident with with garret's behavior and i and i told you this and i never spoke out about what garrett did um when you would what you went through during your season i didn't talk about it and it was out of respect for you and your relationship and more of you know it just i just didn't feel like it was my place you didn't say it if you had said it, I would have said something. So I just let it go. And through getting to know you and

Garrett, it's like, okay, I know where Becca is in all of this. So maybe there's a lot that she's been able to teach him. Love can really soften your heart and make you learn a lot of new things. Then when I fast forward to two years now, and then this post happens, it's a, as I told you, a fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. To me, this is really, this is really how Garrett, this is what Garrett thinks. This is how Garrett is. And I don't, it's, to you, I compared it to Drew Breeze. Four years ago, Drew Brees was very vocal against Colin Kaepernick, taking a knee and felt it was extremely disrespectful to the flag. Four years later, he does an interview and doubles down and reiterates that same belief. He is only now responding to

the backlash that he received first in a written apology than in a video. So to me, everything that you're doing right now is a reaction to the backlash because in four years, you didn't change your heart. You didn't change your stance. So when I look at what Garrett has done with, he posted a black box. He never said black lives matter. He posted fists of every color, which to me is like everybody, all lives, right? And then the very very, next post is the thin blue line with a heartfelt, thought out caption that he said with his chest. And to me, that is what you feel and that is how you believe. I don't think Garrett is malicious, but Garrett is what the problem is. Because it goes back to me saying, you don't have to be

writing around with white sheets on to be doing things that are racist, to doing things that ignore what people, oppressed people are going through in this country. I know Garrett has a good heart, but the fact that he is willing to equate Blue Lives Matter with Black Lives Matter shows me that you don't get it. And Garrett is not an idiot. And I think that you aren't willing what Garrett's post to me went is to me meant is that you are not willing to unlearn the world that you live in because I said to you, I bet Garrett doesn't have many black friends in his life. And so then, so when you don't have that in your life, it is very easy for you to ignore it. You don't feel the oppression. You don't feel the suffering. You are in

your bubble and you are in your world, which is why to him, cop's lives matter. That is what he wants to focus on because that is the world that he's living in. He's not affected by Black Lives Matter. It's almost as if it doesn't mean anything to him. And I feel I can say that because of the post that I saw. I'm not saying that he doesn't like me. I'm not saying that I don't matter to him, but to me, you don't get what we're screaming for. Because at the end of the day, I don't choose to be black.

I was born this way. I can't go home at night and peel my skin off and no longer be a black person. I'm black all day, every day of my life. Police officers choose to become a police officer. You face dangers, you take an oath to serve and protect. It is a choice that you have made, and you face inherent risk of the job in doing that profession. Nobody is saying that your lives don't matter.

Nobody is saying that police officers aren't good people. But by Garrett putting that message out there, you are perpetuating that thinking that, yeah we hear your lives matter but our lives matter too and you're missing the entire point of why we are screaming out what we are going through in this country and frankly you're missing the point because you don't have to care that is the message that garret is sending out he doesn't have to care because black people aren't in his a part of his life yeah and and rachel to to play into that you are correct like sure yes he has some black friends but not close and he definitely

and he'll admit this too. He has so many more friends in his inner circle and family members who are cops or highway patrolmen or who are in that law enforcement position. And that's what he sees. That's what he knows. And now, which is kind of

what I feel like is my job as a partner and I would do this if it was Garrett or anyone else is to say like, you know, you grew up knowing that that route and knowing that and seeing that. and wanting to have faith in the law enforcement and the police, you don't necessarily see your black friends in the black community as much

because you just, like, you haven't been around it. And so for me, like, these are conversations we are having on a daily basis, on a nightly basis with my family. Like, and Rachel, I mentioned this to you. Like, my sister came home yesterday for Madison, and she brought up all of the same points you are bringing up right now. Like, why can you only do the hashtag, that it's blackout Tuesday on Tuesday and then two days later you have this long

heartfelt thought out post for cops and so she has brought up all of these points i'm trying to bring up all these points i all i can say right now and there's so much discussion and conversation that him and i still have yet to be had and so i hope that everyone listening can give us that respect to have that um and to and to even reach out to people who no way more than I do like you or anyone or to sorry one no no go ahead go ahead and so I'm trying my best right now it's it's going to be a work in progress I again like all I can say

is I hear you and I see your points of view and I hope that once him and I can talk about this more and continue to have this conversation he will begin to see that as well you know and I keep saying he didn't mean it maliciously and maybe that's the wrong phrase to use. It is the wrong phrase to use. I'm sorry, I have to tell you that. It is the wrong phrase because it's excusing it. Garrett didn't wake up in 2020 and racism was just here. If you have chosen

to not educate yourself or to learn to know what's going on, it is a choice. And most of the time you choose to do it because you don't have to care. You know, when you're a circle, it doesn't have people of color in it, why, and this is just a general statement, why would you step out to care about the injustices that they're facing when it doesn't affect you at all? And Garrett is a prime example of what I'm saying is a problem in the society. And this is a question that I was going to ask you, but, and I, because I hear you talk. And it's more of, I don't understand. I don't understand why people are just not. Like, this is what makes me emotional. Like, I don't understand why people are just now getting it. We have been going through so

much in this country. And it's like, oh, today I'm going to amplify black voices. Today is Blackout Tuesday. Today I'm going to support and educate and read a book about black people in watch a movie we've fucking been going through this shit and i don't understand why when you say oh his it wasn't malicious or oh his you know i'm just now understanding things no like you have to admit that you've made a choice to not see it and my question to you originally was going to be why isn't that white people are just now acting like racism started in 2020 Why is it that just now we have your attention? Like I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I'll just let you answer the question.

No, and, and Rachel, like, I, not to be cheesy, but like, I, I want to reach out and hug you because I do hear you. And, and that question is, I don't think, I think coming from just seeing people's mindsets and how, I think, like, for the longest time, it was the excuse of, you know, we don't see it. We're not living it. We don't have the community around us. Like, it's just easier to go about our day. And, like, one example is, and this, and I brought this up to gear is we know somebody who literally didn't even know, like, what was going on in the news, had no idea about

the protests, had no idea about the riots, nothing, like, had zero clues. as to what was happening and in my mind it's like i never want to be that person i never want to be so blinded by what's going on or to take quote unquote the easy route in this matter just because it's going to be easier and i'm not going to have to deal with it and because i'm white i shouldn't have to get involved i think that's the wrong mindset for anyone to take and and and it's it makes me sick to as you say like why does it take why is it 2020 and why are people just starting to speak out? And I'll admit, I am part of the problem. I think everyone around me has been in some extent part of the problem. And I don't know what else to say

besides, like, I want to be the active change. Maybe I'm a little late to the game. And I think a lot of people are too, but I don't want to just take the easy route and to turn a blind eye because it's going to be easier for me and oh and just post happy things on social media like that's not how I want to live my life and so for me myself that's what I can say and and talking about like where and I want to get to this later on like where do we go from here but I don't want to be complacent in this anymore and I think that's what I'm seeing with other people is there's been a problem for way longer than we've probably ever recognized and spoke out about but you have to recognize and move on and it's better to start now than never i just you're right in what you're saying it's just

that's why i get emotional because a message what garret posted totally contradicts the movement that we're trying to push forward and to see so many people like it and it's like and that's why As like Garrett, the thinking that Garrett has is a bigger problem, I'd rather you be, I'd rather somebody be blatantly racist, right? Like, so then I know what I'm dealing with. The problem is the people who don't realize what they're doing is a form of racism. The problem is people who are putting things out there that are against the movement. And the problem is people who are doing things that perpetuate and play into a particular

behavior, which is what I have an issue with the Boucher franchise. Garrett's post is the problem and the thinking that went into it. You don't think black people have law enforcement in their family. You don't think black people have known a person that's a law enforcement, a family member that's of law enforcement that has been a victim to violence. It's just like, it's very selfish and it's your white privilege to think that that is the message that you need to put out when black people are so are just suffering at such a in such a huge way in this country that is the thinking that we are trying to combat like i don't want to hear that his heart isn't malicious like i he's not he's not stupid he knows what he's doing he purposely put that out

there, more concerned about putting a post out there for his family and the people he knows rather than having the heart to understand and empathize with the people he doesn't know. And that is the problem. And there are many of Garrett's out there who are doing that. And you can see it by all the comments that he has under the post and all the likes that he's getting. That is the bigger and harder problem to fight in this country than the people who are just flat out overtly racist. And that, I guess, to segue is to what, when it talks about like what you can do and how do you bring things together and bridge the gap, the first thing

is eliminating that type of behavior. You have to be willing to unlearn what you have grown up in for so long in the bubble that you've been protected. You have to be willing to unlearn and then you have to actively learn. Your heart also has to change. You have to want to do it. You have to put your needs as non-Blacks. You have to put your pride and your privilege to the side. to be there for your black brothers and sisters. You're never fully going to understand what it is that we go through because you just can't. As much as you want to try, you just can't. You know, Brian is married to a black woman, but at the end of the day,

he'll never fully understand what I go through as much as he tries. But you have to show that you're willing to help and support and stand by. At this point, there is a line drawn in the sand. and it is which side that you're on. You don't get to be neutral in this situation. Garrett's Post is neutral, both of them, the black box and the thin blocks. They're both neutral. You don't get to be, if you're neutral, you're on the wrong side.

There's only one side to be on this, and I think it's during this time, we will see what side of history, because we are in a historic moment. People are going to be writing about 2020 in history books for all the crazy things that have happened. but what side of the of history are you going to be on and i think that is a question i can't answer for anybody it's what you have to ask yourself and that's only and we're only going to be able to see and and how you act moving forward and i guess in bridging the gap you know it's i don't know what what are what are your thoughts on how to bridge to get i want to ask you too because

I mean Like I feel like I'm coming up short Like I'm trying to I'm trying to do my part And what I think in my heart is right You know I'm trying to donate Like I'm in Minneapolis I'm planning on going to protest

Like I want to I want to proactively do things that I know Will hopefully make a change For the better and And it does Let me just tell you It does Like well

Those don't discredit those actions they do. They do make a change. And for me, like, right now I'm, again, I don't want to make this all about Garrett and, but again, like the post, a lot of people have that mindset of what he posted. And so for me, I mean, I have the ability to have this conversation with him constantly, day in and day out. I don't have the privilege to talk to everyone about it who thinks that way because I've, can't encounter a huge majority but for him like what and I want you to help me too and I and I'm going to reach out to other resources and I'm trying to expand my knowledge and my thinking and just the educational tools that I have at my hands but I don't know like I feel like I'm coming up short in

that conversation with him and so I'm sure I'm not the only one who's listening to this who's like what do I do where do I go and for me like all I can say is read up, read articles, listen to podcasts. I mean, Rachel, your podcast, how you're learning is amazing. Thank you. I like, I want to donate. I want to protest. That's me. That's what I feel comfortable in doing. I, and I know I can't speak for everyone. Not everyone feels comfortable doing that. That's for me personally. But where do we go and how do we, as listeners who have the same mindset as Garrett, like, what do we do? And how do we continue to have this conversation and like push and change for the better?

I think it's, it's what I heard Maria Taylor say on TV, you have to have a heart for this, right? Like, I can throw books at you. I can cry in front of you. I can scream. I can plead. I can tell you what movies to watch. But unless you have a heart to want to fix the problem, it's not going to change. And that is the slight hope or more hope than I have seen before.

In this situation, because, you know, like an Al Sharpton, who's said this is the most hopeful he's ever been and he's somebody who marched with Dr. King, I'm hopeful because I've seen people react in a way that they haven't before, but my fear is that it's trendy and trends end. And when we go back to our normal lives, are you going to go comfortable? Because I've seen how, I've seen the American response when a police officer assaults a boy. black man and it's caught on video and he screams, I can't breathe. I've seen what happens in America. It's sad. We acknowledge it. Black people wear T-shirts that say, I can't breathe. They march. They're screaming Black Lives Matter, but then at the end of the day, everybody goes up to their normal job and continues in their life and stays in their bubble and they're not affected by it the same way. Right now, we're in such a different place. So my hope is that we continue these conversations and we act on these conversations, and there are ways to do it. Yes, you need to be aware. Yes, you need to educate yourself. But if you are as outrage and sickened and disturbed at what is happening

to black people in this country, then it will stay on your mind and you'll continue to think of how can you create some type of reform in these systems. And at what's at issue in what people are protesting is police brutality. And the way that black people are treated in the police system, in this country. So how do you fix that? You've, yes, you protest it and you march, but you also vote. And it's not voting just on a national level. It's voting on a local level. It's voting about, it's voting in your local elections for these people that elect police or appoint police chiefs who talk with the police unions and negotiate collective bargaining agreements and who are in charge of the initiatives that, you know, the police force have. And it's about having

independent medical examiners that don't do an autopsy report for George Floyd that says that there were underlying factors as to why he died. You have to go get an independent medical examiner to say, no, he was murdered. He died because he choked. He was, it was a fixiation. He was affixated. I'm using that word wrong. You know what I mean. You have to fight for in local elections for your state attorney. Who's prosecuting these police officers? Do we need independent prosecutors to come in who don't have any ties to the police force? How do we separate things? Because they're all connected in the same system. Who's fighting for us in our state legislatures? Who's passing through bills. And then if you build on that on the national level when it comes to electing a president,

I do believe that this is a perfect storm, and that's why all this is happening in an election year. We don't have leadership at the top. We don't have somebody who's at the top who is fighting for unity in this country and trying to put race on the agenda and trying to mend race relations in this country. You have somebody who's perpetuating the current behaviors that we have in this country. I do believe that it's all. also about impacting the next, impacting the next generation. If you have children, if you have nieces and nephews, what are you going to teach them? How are you going to educate them to where we get rid of this stupid platitude of I don't see color?

And no, I do see color. I do see you. I hear you and I recognize what you've been through in this country. And I want to be a part, I want to be on the other side of it of how we make it better. I think those are the steps that you take to bridge the gap. I think having these uncomfortable conversations and I'm sorry if you're listening to this and this has made you feel uncomfortable

and maybe you're tired of hearing people talk about race but imagine what it is in this country to experience it, right? You're just uncomfortable because you're hearing it. Imagine what it is to experience it every single day. And I think, and for a lot of our viewers, like I know after this podcast drops like we're going to get messages being saying, you know, I didn't subscribe to your podcast to talk about race or to talk about political issues or whatever it might be. It's like,

well, also Rachel and I are human and this is a major thing that we're living with in 2020 and we can't not address it. So if you just want to listen to like hunky dory, easy stuff, there are plenty of other podcasts out there. And that's not to say Rachel and I aren't going to recap the show in the future, but when things like this occur. Well, I hope that. Rachel, I'm going to fight for you, girl. I don't want anyone else on here with me. But, but um one thing too because garret and i were talking about this last night and um and it was the same conversation like where do we go from here you can't just post a black box and say that you care without doing anything without showing action and we have to continue to do it and and on a

different scale i can't compare it to this but like for instance in 2016 there was all the women's marches all over. I took part in one in Minneapolis, and it was the most inspiring, impactful, like probably one of the best things I've ever taken part of and one of the best memories I've had. And to this day, monthly, for me, and this is my choice, a route that I chose to take. Like, I still donate to different women's organizations, Planned Parenthood, Women One. And I, you know, when I started to be the label, I wanted to bring a charity aspect to the label, which was Women One, to build a center of youth or a center for women in Kenya and to help those women there and the children and the families get better education and access to food

and water. And the list goes on and on. And so, you know, that's something I'm very passionate about. And now I hope people can see, like, you know, the women's movement, that's something that I think, you know, we took part in and made change in a long time ago, and that's what we're seeing with this. And so all I can do is for me personally take what I've done there and apply it to this and still lend my voice and talk about things when it's not easy and stand up against certain leadership that I don't agree in and try to push the conversation forward with Garrett and with other people when it's not easy, when it is uncomfortable. And that's where I'm going to take a stand and continue to do so because, like I said, I don't want to be complacent.

I hope anyone out there listening doesn't want to be complacent and that you want to make a change because I don't think anyone wants to live in this state of where our country is right now. I don't think anyone likes it. I don't think it's, I mean, it just like, and I can't even imagine Rachel how you're feeling, but it's like, I feel like it's eating away at my soul and it's so disheartening and you wake up day after day wondering what you're going to see on the news and what you're going to what terrible things you're going to read happened. And again, I have to take myself out of my mindset there and think about how you have felt, Rachel, or how your family has felt and your friends and the

black community has felt. Like, it's on such a greater scale that it's just, like, we need to change and we need to realize that there's white privilege. And please, like, for anyone out there who's listening who's like, oh, I don't have to take part in that. That's where you're wrong. Yeah, no. I mean, very well said. It is where you're wrong. And, you know, I just hope that, you know, this conversation that we've had, I'm grateful that we were able to have this conversation. I'm grateful that we could be open with one another and we can receive it. And I hope that the example that we're setting here today truly is something that maybe it's, you know, inspires someone else to have that uncomfortable conversation.

I've received a lot of messages where people are saying, I'm trying to talk to my parents. I'm trying to, wow, I just said parents like the way you would say it. I said that with a Minnesota accident. I don't know if you caught that. Rich, you've been talking to me for too long. Yeah, I did. I've had people say, what do I do? How do I go about this?

And maybe this conversation could be an example of it, you know, where you can talk and you can listen on both sides of it. So, yeah, I don't really have anything else to add because I think Becca said it beautifully. But, you know, we'll be back to our regular scheduled program, regularly scheduled program next week. We hope that you appreciated this conversation. Listen, if you, we'd love to hear your feedback on it. I know a lot of people wanted us to address certain things, so I'm glad we were able to do that. You know where you can follow us at Bachelor Happy Hour on Instagram if you want more of this. If you just want to send in some kind of review about this conversation, you can find us on

Twitter and Facebook at Batch Happy Hour. And yeah, you know where to subscribe. Share this episode with someone who maybe needed to hear it. That's my challenge to you. That's another way that you can help. Share this with somebody. You know, maybe they're not a fan of The Bachelor, but maybe they just need to hear this conversation. And all it takes is, you know, you putting some action behind your words. So when you

know better, you do better, so you can be better. So let's all try to be better. You said at best rage. Thank you. I'm Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, host of the psychology podcast. Here's a clip from an upcoming conversation about how to be a better you. When you think about emotion regulation, you're not going to choose an adaptive strategy which is more effortful to use unless you think there's a good outcome.

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