Bachelor Happy Hour - Rachel & Becca Discuss Accountability Within Bachelor Nation, Jessenia Joins

Episode Date: February 16, 2021

Jessenia, who was sent home last night on “The Bachelor,” joins Rachel and Becca to discuss how she thinks race factored into this season. She also opens up about how she thought Matt did in his role as “The Bachelor.”Plus, Jessenia shares her thoughts on that infamous two-on-one with MJ and explains what led her to tell Matt she was falling in love with him. Don’t forget to rate and subscribe so you never miss an episode. See omny.fm/listener for privacy information.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Bachelor Happy Hour. It is me, one of your hosts, Becca, who's going to take the mic for a few minutes and chat through a few things because I'm sure if you have been keeping up with the headlines or are on social media and just part of Bachelor Nation as a whole,

uh you know that a lot has gone down within the past week and we're going to be doing things a little bit differently with this episode and i need to start first by saying what you're about to listen to the episode that you're about to hear today was recorded prior to a few things um it's going to probably seem a little bit choppy a little bit out of context because since we recorded rachel kirknell who is a contestant on matt's current season has released a statement in which she apologized for past racist actions and it was also recorded prior to Chris Harrison's statement both with an apology and also with the news that he will be stepping aside

from the franchise or after the final rose and potentially beyond. It's a lot to comprehend in Batchezer Nation at least for me but I can only imagine for my co-host Rachel it's just been even more so, even more of a load, even more of a burden to take on, which is why I am hogging the mic for a few minutes. Now, if you haven't yet done so, I highly recommend checking out Rachel's episode on her other podcast, which is called Higher Learning. It came out last week, and it includes all of Rachel's feelings on her conversation with Chris,

as well as her initial reaction on Rachel Kirknell's statement that she put out there. But I don't want to keep having her have to relive this, what I can only assume, was one of the most extremely difficult conversations she's had to have. So if you need to hit pause on this for a moment, please do so. Please go listen to higher learning and listen to what Rachel has to say. And if you do, I encourage you to just hear how she feels as a black woman, asking her to have to relive everything once again. You know, we won't be offended if you don't listen to us right now.

So again, please pause this, go check that out, and then come back to us. One thing that I want to personally say on behalf of myself, on behalf of a co-host and a friend to Rachel is just thank you. Thank you for being you, but thank you for being a beacon of fight and hope. in the in the face of continuous ignorance and racism that we see in our world and within Bachelor nation. I am no exception to that. I have made many mistakes in my past in conversations that were racially insensitive, racially ignorant, and I am personally trying to learn and grow. And that Rachel Lindsay is so much due to you. And I hope that everyone listening to

to this podcast who have stuck with us since the beginning are able to learn and grow as well and to be able to see a white woman from Minnesota and a black woman from Texas come together each week and have deep, important and sometimes uncomfortable conversations together, but to still have so much respect for one another and to form a solid friendship from that. It means the world to me, Rachel, I value your friendship and your loyalty. of so much else. And so thank you. And I want you to know that as a co-host, but also as a friend and an ally that I hear you. I stand beside you. I have your back whenever you want it, even if you don't want it. And I know I'm not alone in saying that because we saw an incredible

show of solidarity with the women from Matt James' season, as well as men from Clarenetia's season, standing beside you. And so just know that we are here for you. We will fight. We will be allies. We just have your back. You know, I know I'm not as eloquent as I would like to be. You know, Rachel's always the great one with the words here.

But I needed to say that before we really get into the rest of this episode. So everyone listening, I try to lead by example. I hope everyone can take something from that. I'm not perfect. I know I'm not perfect. I will continue to screw up. But if if nothing else, please continue to hold me accountable just like I will do so the same in my circles. But I just encourage everyone listening to look at Rachel and see how she uses her voice and her platform and her strength to continue to fight for what we know is right. So thank you for letting me ramble on for a few minutes. It really means the world to me.

And thank you more importantly to Rachel, Rachel Lindsay, for everything that she does that you do, Rachel. So thank you. Rachel and I have had some conversations back and forth about certain things that have been brought to light within Batchar Nation. I'm sure unless you're living under Rock, you probably have seen some things go down. Different conversations are being had between my wonderful co-host here and some other folks. But at the time that we're recording this, I personally just did not sit well, not being able to even speak on it a little bit. And I want to lead with this is, um, in terms of Rachel, which we have talked about and we rest assured will have her on the podcast one day to really sit

down, question her, but give her time to speak on, you know, the social media history and things that have been brought to our attention. We're hoping at this point a statement will come. As of this point right now, she has not released a statement, um, which and Rachel and I, we've had multiple conversations of how this, especially you, I think, has made you feel the silence, like the lack of words and the statement being said. I just

want you to know that Rachel, like life is a learning process for everyone and I've tried to learn as much as I could within this past year and I still am but there's still more that needs to be done that I see and maybe it's not fair for me to ask that or request this

but I want you to know as a podcast host and more more importantly as a friend I have your back like I stand by you when we do have a statement come out when we do have to question her all of that but just so so the world and these listeners know in

Bachelor nation we're not trying to ignore what's been going on we will cover it one day hopefully very soon once we can have her on and I just wanted to say that I know I'm kind of rambling enough topic there but is there anything that you would like to add in on top of that? I mean

all I will say is, you guys, I'm fucking tired. I'm exhausted. I, well, no, no, that's true. I ain't taken that back. But what I do want to recognize is Becca, thank you for saying that. Thank you for, you know, we've had our talks. And I love it because I feel like we can be an example of how two people can come from different worlds, can not necessarily agree, hash it out, understand each other better and be better from it. And hopefully we're an example for other people on how to have these conversations. And I appreciate you always having my back,

always supporting me. You know, you guys, she sends me text, checks on me when things are going on. And that's what it means to be an ally. It means to be outspoken. It means to not just say things. It means to act on them. It means to not be performative with your posts

and reposting, you know, Black Lives Matter thing or retweeting or whatever it may be. It means to actually be. actively anti-racist okay that's what it means to really be an ally in all of this and i'll be honest i don't have many allies i don't really have many allies of people who are actively really trying to fight things that are racist things that maybe where there's implicit racism things that are racist adjacent um which is this what we're dealing with in the in the current

situation in Bachelor Nation. And so I think that's what I'm tired of. That's what I'm frustrated with. I'm tired of whenever there's an issue in Bachelor Nation, people want to come to me and they want to know, what is Rachel think? Oh, is Rachel going to say something? Is she going to pop off? Why are you only turning to me? Think about that. Ask yourself that question. Why is it up to Rachel? Is it because I'm black? Is it because I'm outspoken? Maybe you should be holding other people who have positions of power, who have platforms accountable as well. Maybe Rachel shouldn't be the one who's speaking. Maybe it would be so much more impactful if other people that you admired use their platforms.

Maybe it would be great if you actually called out those people who were so quick to repost things on their social, so quick to say that they were listening and learning. But we haven't heard from them since. Nothing. Nothing sense. And most recent, what you have seen go down in Bachelor Nation, how many people have you seen actively say something? actively act on

the problematic behavior that they've seen probably doesn't take up two hands so all that to say I'm thanking you Becca for everything that you do and what you represent I am exhausted I am tired

and it just it like never stops I think that's what the thing is it never freaking stops and I don't know I think the fact that it keeps happening in Bachelor Nation shows that it is a problem in this country and not just this franchise. The fact that people keep coming in with problematic behavior, the fact that

things aren't necessarily changing a certain way or people can't see things from another viewpoint. That's America. This is just a reflection of it. Well, it's not your battle to fight at this point. And I don't know why I'm getting emotional. here, but it's not, like, when you say people just keep coming to you, like, you guys, I'm, I am a Rachel's co-host here. Like, I am her counterpart for this. Like, please come to me too and call me out or hold me accountable more. Like, you know, people have definitely done that in the past, but like, I want you to know, like, I will always have your back. And I'm going to continue to learn and grow. And I'm not always going to do it right. I'm going to say stupid stuff at

some point and probably put my foot in my mouth. But at the end of the day, like what we're fully seeing transpire right now isn't I think in terms of Rachel not you Rachel but to age Rachel young Rachel the part that gets me and I can't even imagine how it's getting you is just still silence and I hope that we can have for on this podcast and more so too because you know we Rachel and I have different experiences I've I've lived from my journey coming out like something very similar to what's going on now, what's transpiring. So I have a completely different outlook on it that I think once we do have her here, it could be hopefully a really transformative educational eye opening conversation. So that's what I'm saying. I hope we have her

to sit down and question her about it. Like that's like I hope that all three of us can sit down and take something away and actually learn and grow and move forward in a positive way and not just say like You know, I was caught. I'm sorry. Yeah. It's actions, people. It's actions. How many people have you seen post a black box and then take that black box off their social media? How many people have you seen stop being actively, you know, reposting or continuing to grow and learn and then act on that? You've got to act.

It's that otherwise it's just performative. And I'll tell you what's going to happen. Rachel will release a statement. And we've seen this happen before in Batchar Nation. Hannah Brown takes her time because she's figuring out what it is that she's going to say. She's taking the time to learn and understand the things that she's saying, then can conveniently, because of privilege, come back and she admitted this herself and then give an apology when she's ready and when she feels like it.

Forget within that time period that you waited, all the people that you offended along the way, the people who are waiting to hear something from you. You can apologize and then go back and listen. and learn and research and understand the problematic behavior that you exhibited on social media or in real life you don't have to wait to apologize and I'm like you with the silence at this point I don't really care to hear it it's been six weeks if not more just or now speaking out six weeks later like what could you have possibly what could have possibly stopped you from wanting to clear your name what could have possibly stopped you from wanting to

affiliate yourself with something that's so disgusting, you know, or defend your name, your reputation, your character is on trial here and you are losing it. So at this point, for people like me who, yes, Chris Harrison, when you say, who is Rachel Lindsay to ask, well, I can tell you, I am a black woman who is personally offended by the things that Rachel has done or that she is affiliated with. So I can speak out and I can say exactly how. how I feel about it, and that I do want to hear her apologize for the things that she's done. And six weeks is too much time. And it's not that I'm not giving her grace, a word that I have learned to hate because of bastro nation.

It's not that I'm not giving her compassion or giving her space. It's that I'm holding her accountable. And I think that's what people have to realize. You can hold somebody accountable and still have compassion or give them space or give them understanding and a willingness to learn. That is what I'm giving her. But it doesn't mean that I'm hating on her or I'm canceling on her just because I'm expecting her to be a better person.

That's it. I don't know why people confuse it too. Well, and going back to, like, back to our conversation that we had after George Floyd was murdered, that part, the first podcast episode in June where, like, I was so ignorant. I was so just surface level, white girl living my perfect life. and we had that conversation now was it difficult for probably both both of us on different spectrums for different reasons yes but that was probably one of the most transformative conversations i could have ever had in my entire life and i feel like it helped me grow tremendously

and i like i never want to stop you know that's again like that's not to say i won't mess up here and there and do or say something wrong but that was the beauty of it and i feel like so many people after that podcast episode bashed either one of us for different reasons, you know? And it's, but it's, that's the beauty of it. It's like we, we can sit down. We can have those difficult, uncomfortable

conversations and still take something from the other person and hopefully take that into our lives and want to continue to be better, just a better human. A more accepting, like, eye-opening, you know, like to realize our faults and to just want to be better.

and move on from there. So that's, at this point, that's all I can hope that we would get with Rachel when we do have her on. So, yeah. You know,

we'll see, we'll see what happens, Becca, with all of this and how it goes down. But the point is, we're, I'm just,

it's just sad. It's just sad. And I think the silence makes things a lot more difficult than they should be. Yeah. You know, I'm not saying it's not easy.

It's not easy to have these conversations. It's not easy to own up to the things that you've done. But it's not going to go away. Those days are over where you can just let things pass through and go and like ignore them and enough time will go by and no one will talk about it. No, we live in a society, thank goodness now, where people will hold you accountable for what you do.

They're not going to forget. Right. So. Yeah, exactly. You know, now for more bullshit. Last night's episode. last night there was a lot that went down in that episode I feel like all these episodes are so jam-packed

especially as of lately we've got a lot of women that are left yes big moments for you what stood out in this episode a couple things well first I want to say it finally felt more like a real episode where like I mean up until this point it's been filled with drama so now we're starting to see a little bit more

it just felt normal to me if I'll you know minus the like Heather showing up leaving that type of thing um i'm just going to give you quick highlights uh one thing that i just need to call off call out off of the top of this is thank goodness for the musical talent that was aloe black and not your standard country singer i love aloe black and so when they had him even in the teaser from last week when they showed when they like started piecing everything together with him singing in the background i was like oh my gosh this is like so artsy and like it felt like I was watching

a movie like a teaser to a movie so I mean I would say he is probably like the highlight that I saw go down last night but what about you absolutely he would get the highlight I was shocked at first when they were playing his song I was like oh that's just music that they're adding to the

preview no al-black is actually there absolutely that I I don't really have highlights wait but what about this when he was performing and Matt and Rachel were dancing to him and the girls are back just sobbing

listening to this beautiful song. Not a highlight. Well, actually, no. I guess it's kind of cruel. Yes, it made me chuckle because what is unclear at this moment is could the women who did not get chosen, the ones who were sitting on the couch and crying,

could they hear aloe black? Because he sounded loud. I don't know if it was just my TV screen or what, but he sounded very loud. Could they hear him? singing because it was like the soundtrack to their tears and it was like the juxtaposition between the

two was funny and I know you know y'all were trying to be funny when y'all gave that to us and it was not not I was not thrilled necessarily like that Rachel was the one chosen for the date because I want to see other women get highlighted in their time but it was funny

to see because it just was like such a pitiful scene it was like a little comedic relief that maybe we needed yes yes it was was. Okay. Do I have a read the room this week? Since we added that segment last week, who was not able to read the room? Oh, that's a good question. I am going to say Heather again. Not that I don't want to harp on Heather too much because we've already, but since she carried over into this episode, she really thought I think that she was going to be able to stay. Matt sent her home.

Now, I do love this statement. It's one of my favorites. I'm not going to congratulate a fish for swimming, right? Not going to give you a pat on the back for doing something that you're supposed to do. I'm not going to give Matt kudos for sending Heather home. He had no choice. If he didn't send Heather home, the rest of the women would have turned on him. I really think if the women had been accepting of Heather, he would have kept her.

I do. I really do. I was not. The women were like, no. there would have been an uprising. Maybe that would have been the read-the-room then because I think Heather went in not even thinking the girls would

maybe have an issue with it. Yeah, no, Heather didn't read the room. She gets the award. Once again, once again. One other thing that stood out to me was on the group date when Bree and Matt were talking and she told him that she quit her job for him,

which is, I mean, you know, coming onto the show, everyone knows you have to leave your job for potentially two months. now a lot of times like jobs will let you come back in my case i was lucky enough to be able to go back into PR when i came back um but yeah i found it interesting because she had been gone for a good chunk of time and when she finally sat down with matt and was like oh a couple days ago i had to resign so basically like to make this happen it better be worth it i for a hot second was watching her story and i was like oh my gosh matt if you send her i had like this moment where i was like

he's going to send her home right now. And I was like, don't do it. So I'm glad that he kept her. I, he better pick her, okay? This woman sacrificed a whole career. Now, I don't know what I would have done in that situation if I were Brie, but I'm going to go ahead and venture to say I would have self-elimited. I would not have been able at that point.

I'm not that much of a risk taker. I think that's what it is. This is no knock towards Matt. I just, if it was my dream job, and I was doing it and it was also a part of like family and supporting them.

I just don't know if I would be able to take that risk. So with Bree, I thought it was very, it was nice to see her tell that story. I felt my heart went out to her.

I'm glad that Matt validated her by giving her a rose. And yeah, you know, like I like Bree. I want to see more of Bree. There's several women we need to see more of.

But it was a sweet moment. I wouldn't have been able to do it, but good for you, Brie. You know what? Let's find out who Brie's employer is, and let's get Brie hired back. Okay?

Yes. That's her happy hour listeners. We have to get this woman a job. Whether she's with Matt or not, we need to get this beautiful, smart, like, this woman who is sacrificing for love, this woman, how could they not, you know, hire her back? Hopefully she has a job. She said it was her dream job. She's on the podcast.

It's the first question I'm asking. Where are you employed? Do we need to sort of go fund me if they don't take you back? Get this woman her job back. Start a petition. You know in Bachelor Nation, y'all are quick to do that. Abigail, man, talk about a fall from grace. I know, I know.

I could kind of see it coming, let's be honest. Yeah, he didn't give her any love after that first impression rose, at least from what we saw on our screen. Probably in real life, but from what we saw. Yeah. So, yeah, we lost Abigail. We then lost Kit, Kit Self- Eliminated. I thought about this episode

was kind of like self-elimination bang bang bang chop chop chop you know there was nothing though with Kit there was nothing

it was like she was very upfront which when we were reading her bio we set this she's 21 she's got all these things this is a woman who is not ready

for marriage and kids then she gets on there and says I'm a long-term investment this is a woman who's not ready for marriage kids and all of that so and I feel like

Matt was kind of like me neither me hold on Wait, wait. I like that, thank you. Me neither. But she eliminates, there seemed to be no emotion really from her, no emotion from him. It was weird.

I've never seen a self-elimination like that. Usually at this point in the journey, people are sad. And maybe that's why she decided to let it go. Yeah. I think she knew at that point, like, especially for hometowns. And she talked about how important, like, her mom in the career was to her that, like, I'm not surprised that she chose to leave. at that moment. I kept wondering, you remember in the very first teaser we saw at his premiere where it shows him just sobbing outside and Chris Harrison coming up and being like, what's going

on? I keep wondering, I thought that was going to happen last night. I don't know why. Maybe it was like the outfit he was wearing. I felt like it was very similar. So I'm like, when is this moment going to happen? I knew it wasn't going to, I don't think any of these women are bringing him. I said this earlier. I don't think any of these women are bringing him down to his knees like that. he does not i do not feel the love okay you know what song is not playing in the background can you feel the love tonight elton john is not making an appearance neither are simba and nala i feel nothing between matt and these women he likes them he seems cool with them he seems attracted to them but there's like the spark there's no spark i've never seen anything like it before

with it's like the complete opposite of Peter where he seemed to fall in love with everyone Matt just seems to be big kicking it they're like the ying and the yang like so vastly different in the way that they handle their relationships but yeah it's like it's not intimate I mean they had the most

he had the most intimate date with with Serena last night and there was nothing nothing he's like I like you you know what I like Matt is friends Matt is the homie I'm telling y'all He is friend zoning all these women. There is no spark, no connection.

I don't get it. Either that or he's just awkward maybe with dating women. He's attractive, but there's no charm. He's handsome, but he's not like a smooth operator. Something is afoot. Something is missing. I don't know what it is. But you know who we can ask?

Our guest. Our guest who is coming up. Before we bring her on, I do want to acknowledge that we have made it to hometowns. Hometowns are always a big week. I cannot wait to see what we have in store with that. We saw Piper go home. I want to acknowledge that because we just had her on the podcast as well. I really thought Piper was going to get a hometown day, especially after that one-on-one with

Serena P. Oh, yeah. I would have said for sure Piper is going to hometown Serena C. Wait, Serena C. Serena P. Serena P would have gotten home, especially after like how uncomfortable she was. Absolutely. But, you know, again, things we don't see.

But again, Rachel, men's decisions don't always make sense to us. They don't. They absolutely don't. But we had Piper on the podcast last week. We like her. She seems like a catch. So, you know, if any men listen to this podcast, you know, maybe you could slide in her DMs. Or maybe we'll see her on Paradise. Who knows?

All right. Or maybe we'll ask her next guest because right now it is that time. We haven't even told y'all yet that we have a guest or who it is. But the guest that we have this week, we saw her get a one-on-one, which is why we didn't cover it in our recap. She may not have drifted into Matt's heart, but she is here to chat about everything that went down. And we're excited to chat with her as well.

Please welcome Jacinia to the show. Well, welcome, Jacenia. We're so happy to have you here. And I don't know if you've listened to our podcast before, but each week, Rachel and I always say this because we don't get to see a ton of you women, like really for who you are. And I would say within the last episode that we saw,

we're finally getting to see you, but thank goodness we have you to sit down with us to give us a little bit more behind the scenes and the tea and just your experience overall. So just to start, how have you been? I've been good. Honestly, this experience has definitely been a whirlwind. I don't think any of us have experienced anything like this before, but for the most part, I mean, I'm pretty happy. I am glad that it's like done just because, okay, I can move on to the next chapter kind of thing, but no, overall it's been great. I feel like you're one of the first people that we've had on our podcast that actually now has been sent home so we know your full story from start to finish. So how is it been? Yeah, that's true. Yeah, like, yeah, because I think

the past couple of guests, they've still, they haven't been able to like fully divulge everything that they went through because they were still on the season. So you're the first one that, you know, has experienced it now beginning to end in your so-called journey. So like watching it all back, how has it been taking that all in? it's been a lot because it's one thing to experience in it to experience it and then to watch it back you learn just how much they leave out and it's crazy to see it kind of play out and then you see what had more focus like I'm not going to lie I think you know the drama definitely took presidents this season rather than the love stories or even the women's stories as well

a lot of my conversations that I had with Matt were really heartfelt and it would have been nice to have seen it be played back, but for the most part, I mean, I'm just taking it as it comes. And every episode so far has been like drama, drama, and I'm ready for the love stories. Yeah, you know, it's interesting because we had Abigail on the podcast and she was, we were throwing out superlatives and she was naming them. She was giving out the awards of who was who. And you were and I can't remember the exact name, but it was like basically the one who's going to stand, speak up, speak their mind, aka pop off.

Why do you think that she gave you that award? I don't know, perhaps, because I did speak up. And, you know, I know that the two-on-one is definitely, if anything, it's the most free time I've had. And it is like one of the bigger situations in the season that happened as well. I don't know. I think that whole situation for me was kind of that opportunity for me to go ahead and step forward in terms of, you know,

because Katie, of course, was speaking out about it as well. And for me, you know, I did seem like, okay, I'm going to have to go through with this because when it was first brought up, when Matt had addressed the situation at the row ceremony, he specifically used terms like OG newbie, us versus them kind of mentality. And so when he and I sat down to talk, I was hoping we wouldn't talk about drama because if I remember he had already walked Anna out so I was hoping we wouldn't have to talk about anything but he did ask me how are things at the house

and I was honest I mean I said I went back to the terms that he brought up I said well yeah words like OG Nuby is being used just like varsity versus JB is being used as well but that's something that MJ dubbed it's you know so that I could at least separate that it's not that we were all using those terms It was like specific people.

So, yeah, I feel like the 201 one just never even had to happen in the first place, honestly, because when Matt brought it up to MJ, that was the perfect opportunity to say, well, yeah, I did say a comment that I meant as a joke. And I apologize to the ladies. And since then, we'd move forward. That could have been the end of it. But instead, it just turned into this whole us versus them kind of thing. And, yeah, it was a lot.

It was a lot. I want to ask you about that moment because that two-on-one was that was really the first time, you know, we saw you, like, saw you speak up against it. And, and I've said this to Rachel many times, that two-on-one was so random to me. You know, like, had you asked me a week or two earlier, there's no way in hell I would have said, oh, Justenia and MJ are going to be on this two-on-one. You know, like it was just, it came out of left field, it felt like. And so getting that day card, probably, Because it was right before the roast ceremony. So when you heard your name on that, like, did you have any idea that you were going to be chosen for that? Or was it like, buckle up? Here we go. So initially I thought, okay, well, actually what I did say, in fact, was this could have been avoided. I said it out loud.

I said this could have been avoided. But then, of course, we had to go get ready for the roast ceremony. And that's where we really kind of had our back and forth. But I remember just thinking, you know what? I'm going to stand my ground. I know what I said is fact. We've all seen it. And I'm not the only one who has seen and heard it either.

So I don't have anything to worry about. And I just wanted to make sure that, you know, when I spoke with Matt, it would just be clear and open. And it's not to say either that that was the only issue with MJ either. Like it was the fact that she just wouldn't take accountability for her actions. And the problem, too, is that men. of us played a role in some way, big or small, and we at least own up to that fact. And we did apologize, we make amends, whatever. And she just would refuse to take accountability.

And I think that was the bigger issue for me. I was not pressed over just a JD varsity comment. It was really the fact that I learned later when Matt told me that she didn't know what was going on at the house. I was like, huh, okay. so she's pulling a veil over his face unfortunately and trying to remove herself from a situation that she was clearly part of so yeah it's it's crazy because i you can tell that there are great women in the house it's like there's an equal amount of of like great women versus the dramatic ones

and you know we've seen matt come in and clean house but as becca and i prepped for the podcast We're like, we really don't know what to ask our guest unless it's related to drama, which is such a shame because that's all we've seen. So please, you know, tell us a little bit about like who Jacinia is, how she got to the show, and then what maybe people didn't get to see about you on the show. Yeah, so one detail everyone knows is, you know, I'm a social media marketing manager, so I work in digital marketing and I basically just help businesses kind of, promote their message, whether it's for an organization or product line. I just kind of help them master or something that works for them in terms of projecting whatever message or product that might be. And I live in Texas.

I love it here. I'm considering relocating, but we'll see about that. Wait, where in Texas are you? San Antonio. Okay, I'm from Dallas. Okay, no far. So I get Texas Girls United. Yes.

But yeah, I mean, you know, there were a lot of conversations that I had had with Matt that were really heartfelt. I know the first one was just me emphasizing how important it is for me to find a partner that shares the same values as I do. And one thing that I mentioned to him was, you know, I'm looking for someone who can be my rock. And I remember in the situation that I was in feeling like, okay, well, I want a partner that I have open communication with who can trust me, which is why it was important to me

and it did mean a lot to me that Matt gave me that validation that he did, in fact, believe me um but aside from that i mean there's a lot that i talked about i mean matt was really great about opening up to me about his family as well i opened up to him about my struggles with depression even so it's like there were there were a lot of conversations that that didn't air see this is why we love having you because these are the things that i think well me and most of our our listeners would want to hear like the real deep foundational conversations that make up any sort of relationship. Yeah, and foundational is a great word

because for me, my example is my parents. I grew up as a military child with dual military parents, so they were both in the army. And that was a tough upbringing, but I learned to appreciate it later on because I did have a moment where I just resented moving so much, but I learned to appreciate it.

And it was even a period in my life where it was just my brother and I, my dad was deployed for 15 months. My mom was a drill sergeant, so we barely saw her. And it would just be me in high school having to drive my brother to his school, come to my school. And it was like a balancing act. And I had to grow up really fast.

What made you originally want to come on the show? Or how did you get involved with it in the first place? So I remember I had applied sometime in January. And I was literally in pajamas with coffee, just like, whatever, I'll do it. Because it was a show that my mom and I would watch, especially at that time, things were kind of slowing down a bit. So it was getting around that time where you should stay home and all that.

So we got hooked on to Peter's season, but that's the only season that I've seen. That's it. Wow. That's it. That's what you have to go by. Yeah, I know. Which is why I would like refer to clips on YouTube or something of other seasons.

but yeah, Peter's the only full season that I've seen. Wasn't always that way. So your measure of a bachelor, now don't get me wrong, I like Peter, but we're talking about how he was as a bachelor. Your measure, your standard of bachelors, it's not even a plural, was just Peter. So, I mean, well, let me ask you this then.

How do you think Matt did as a bachelor? You know, a lot was thrown at him, a lot was thrown at y'all. And I don't think we talk about that enough. Yes, it's unfair that Matt, these women keep popping up on Matt, but it's also unfair to you guys, because that's not normally the format of the show. How do you think Matt handled it?

And did he make you feel seen and heard, despite all the additions and the twists and turns that popped up on this season? Going into it, considering I was new to it, and I knew that he was new to it, I didn't want to hold him to too high of a standard, I did want to give him the grace to, you know, make his mistakes and try to get by as best as he could. But he totally exceeded my expectations. I think he did wonderful.

And he is really receptive. He definitely is a communication kind of person because once things were brought to his attention, I mean, he targeted every situation and he really, you know, handle it. And he did, he does make you feel seen. It was something that a lot of the girls and I related on because. Although we had this dynamic where we wouldn't share what we talked to Matt about, like intimate details, just so that, you know, we could have that still maintain that friendship without it getting too weird because obviously we're dating the same guy. We would express how Matt was so great at communication and he would always make you feel

really good after you had a conversation with him. And one night I even expressed, you know, there's that term where people talk about, oh, like, this person lights up a room. I personally haven't met someone that I could apply that to, and I felt that way about Matt. I thought every time he'd come in the room, it was like a breath of fresh air, and we weren't jittery or nervous. So he was really good about making sure that we were all somewhat level-headed. Interesting. Okay, so prior to you hopping down, we had this conversation where at this point, obviously, we're right before hometowns.

It's hard as a viewer to tell who he's super into. do, like there's, we don't see, and, you know, and we can shock it up to maybe the drama that took hold of everything. So we don't see a lot of the conversations between him and any of the women. And so it's hard for us to really nail down who he's into, you know, like, I think going into this episode, there was like eight or nine or maybe 10 women left. And I was like, it's a free for all. We don't know. Like, he could handle these four golden tickets and it could be at random. Yeah.

And so, but it's interesting because there was three eliminations prior to the row ceremony. So it makes it seem like he knows who he's into, who he's keeping around. So did you up until that point, like, know who he had the strongest connections with? Like, could you see it in the house? Was it very apparent? Or was it more like he's into all of us and no one was really sure? I think in the beginning you could, because I don't know what it is. Like when people vibe differently with each other, I think it was easier to tell at the beginning.

But as you go further and further, you're thinking, well, I'm not here for no reason, you know. So he obviously sees something in each of us, which is why I think it was so important for me personally. Like, I wanted to have that one-on-one to know for a fact, like, is this it or not? So I think it actually got harder to tell towards the end because even then we were all struggling and we all talked about it too. We're like, we don't know where Matt's head is at. So it was really hard to tell. Yeah. So when you got the one-on-one, obviously you were super excited about that,

because they always are exciting to get. But how did you feel on it? I mean, I was, and Becca, too, because we talked a little bit about this, a little taken aback that you said that you were falling in love with him because we didn't see it. Like, did you feel it or, and I'll just be blunt, did you really feel that? Were you caught up in the moment?

or was it like a last ditch effort because it's hometowns and it's like I got to let him know that I'm filling him this way? So for me it was more about leaving it all out on the table. I did not want to walk away from there regretting not telling him something, especially that. Yeah, unfortunately you guys didn't get to see a lot of our communication because that's how you see how does that come about, you know, like what made her fall for him. it was how he talked to me. It was how he validated me, how he treated me,

and all the things that we would connect on. That's what it initially made me, you know, fall for him. And it wasn't so much that I was like, yeah, I'm in love. This is end game, but I was falling for him, for sure. But definitely, I'm not going to lie. I felt it in my guts that I wasn't going. Yeah, I know. Always do, girl, right?

Women, we are witches. And we feel it, and you have to pay attention to that feeling inside. Yep. Let me ask you this, Jacinia. How do you feel about the screen time that women of color got on the show? Thank you for asking. Thank you for asking. Because that's something that I've come after every episode that would go by, I'm like,

geez, I'm barely seeing so and so or so and so. And I remember, you know, Chelsea, I'm glad Chelsea was able to have her story, but I know that Maggie had an incredible story to share as well. No one was able to see that, you know, and it is really upsetting that also a lot of me included were we seem to only have screen time because we're tied to some kind of drama and it's incredibly frustrating.

So I'm happy you brought that up because I definitely want to make my sentiments known. You can't tote around the fact that you have the most diverse cast but then not get the spotlight to, it's like one, one thing if you're giving i get victoria was the drama but now we're in the later seasons and i have yet to see michel really talk in an itm i'm constantly watching rachel yeah so it's it's i'm just very curious you being a part of it you were in it you know how much you were talking in interviews or you know how much time that you spent with matt it's just it's it's it's disappointing it's disappointing

and it's honestly frustrating and I cannot tell you how many hours of interview I have how many hours I spent talking to Matt and I didn't get to see any of that and it's really not fair because each one of these women we put our lives on hold some of us even quit our jobs

we sacrificed a lot to go there because we had this faith in this system that Bachelor has created for us to meet this incredible guy but we can't even see our stories unfold on a screen come on it doesn't make sense let me ask both of you this because i mean i know what i would say but do you feel like abc or i well the frances as a whole for the show like they're they just

checked the boxes you know like it wasn't really until this year when the petition started to have a more diverse cast and i think for the crew to overall to create this show do you feel like they just at that point we're like let's check the box you know we got our first black bachelor Yeah, it was almost like they're trying to, it's like, okay, well, if we give them that, like we can always say, oh, but we did have a diverse task. We did have a Black Bachelor, but when you watch the season, you're not seeing that. You're not seeing it reflect. And one thing that I loved about Tasha's season was that there were serious conversations

being had and they were impactful. All we're getting right now is drama, drama, drama. I mean, over really vapid subjects, honestly, but to be realistic. So I don't get it. Like there are so many amazing women and that's what frustrates me is I was able to know these women in ways that the audience never will and to know their stories and to see that they didn't even get the opportunity to share that is beyond frustrating. I guess to piggyback on some of the things that you were saying, Jacenia, because you

were in there in the moment, it's, I find it very interesting that at this point we know the four women that are going to hometowns and three out of the four are of color. And honestly, I'm like, how are these the women that are here? Because we haven't seen them. We haven't seen their relationships develop. And they're only one of them we've seen, who seems we've seen more of her than we have the three of them combined personally. Michelle's the person who started out as a frontrunner who I was like, wow, they have a big connection. Haven't seen her sense. Haven't seen her sense. Where's Michelle? Unless she's on a group on the couch

with the women. Are you shocked because you're there? Did you see these with the four that are left particularly the three of color? Did you see Matt's relationships with them progress? Because maybe there's something we're missing here. Well that's the thing too is I'm

I wish that they would have shown a more cohesive story with these women who are now considered the top four or three of them being women of color. because then it would have made sense and the audience would have said of course there's of course she's there you know so for me you know brie was my roommate you know i ride for brie and you know she and i would definitely have our intimate conversations and you know we would share about how we were feeling about the process um and so i could see her feelings grow for him of course you know michel i ended up after the initial shock of her arrival i did you know i was able to sit down and have a conversation with her by the fireplace, and it was so nice to just get to know her. These are two women that I have a lot of love for, and I wish that, you know, we could have

seen more of them. Yes. And this is why I know my request as a viewer is not going to mean anything, but in the future, and this is something I vocalized to you, Rachel, on the podcast is, you know, the drama, I want it for a little bit, but like, the show is about love. The show is about finding connections and finding a potential lifelong partner. Like we need to start seeing more of the wise and how that's being created on the show. So yeah, as you said, I don't remember the exact word you used,

but when you said it's just like this vapid bullshit drama, that doesn't matter. Yeah, it's, it is, and that's the thing too is like another point that I do want to emphasize on is, yes, the drama was there, you know, the toxicity was there. but there was a good equal amount of respect for each other of you know what we messed up let's move forward really trying to cultivate a much healthier environment we had our moments where we were literally in stitches because we were laughing so much we were having a great time

I wish more of that was shown but I mean who am I I'm just there and it happens to all of us like we all like you know we get you film for a week and, I mean, weeks at a time, but one week goes into two hours, so it's impossible for everything. Yes, you know, like, you're not alone. We all feel that way. We wish that there were more things that were shown. That's what women tell all us for. I know. How is your relationship right now with most of the women, like close now that it's done and the dramas in the past? Yeah, I know. Now that it's done, I mean, I can say the women I'm closest to is three, of course,

She was my roommate, so she's like my day one, essentially. We'll have our little check-ins here and there. But next to be Katie, even though our relationship didn't really develop until just before she left, like, I don't know, maybe a week or so. And then, of course, Michelle and Serena P as well. I'm glad to hear about Katie because I said last week it doesn't look like Katie has any friends in the house. People seem to be giggly when she went home. I was like, wait, what happened here? Because what happened?

The people are sad. Okay, okay. I have to say this because there are some things that are shown and they're kind of exaggerated a bit. Okay. Because like for me personally, there was, and I got bashed for it because it looked hypocritical in my part. There's a part or it was during a group date where in, you know, at the after parties we have. multiple conversations. It's not just about one thing. And just know that not everything that is seen has happened cohesively. A lot of it is kind of like thrown together or condensed, I guess,

so that you can get an idea of what happened that night. But yeah, people are dogging me for my I love us comment. And I was like, I didn't mean that in a mean way. I was legitimately laughing about things that we were talking about, not necessarily the conversation that was shown. And so, you know, to go on about Katie, like, I don't, I didn't laugh that she was leaving. It was just like that shock of like, oh my God, this is getting real, you know? And on top of that, she was very confident about her connection and met with Matt. So a lot of us were kind of thinking, oh, maybe she will come back home. So to see that she didn't was a shock.

Okay, that's good to know that she was confident in her connection because we didn't see that. I, she was always the homie. Katie was always the homie with Matt I never saw any romantic spark but I'm glad that she felt that because again we don't see everything so she felt connected because even when she left she was probably just like stone cold because she was

in shock and like Becca and I know how that goes but I'm happy to hear that she felt they had a connection yeah no definitely like we didn't see it the thing is you know there are so many connections whether as as strong as they were

or as weak as they were you didn't get to see a lot of our conversations with Matt. He and I had a lot of laughs and we really dove deep into family values and things that we've struggled with even and he even opened up to me about something that I didn't expect him to share. I was like, oh, okay, well, it's good to know

that we have that comfort within each other where he could share that with me just like I was able to share things with him. So yeah, I definitely would have loved for there to be more emphasis on those conversations than all of us had with him. Okay, so last night we obviously see you go home. Now you are in the real world. The world knows that you are what I'm assuming

single writing to mingle. So two-part question. Number one, and I can't believe you're the first person I've ever asked this because I remember having this conversation with a lot of the women on my season of The Bachelor is we got off the show and, you know, once the show was airing and but we all knew what happened, I was like, you guys date, like how is dating going to be for you? Like, do you think it's going to be easier in the real world? Is it going to be harder? Yeah. So for you personally, how do you think that's going to go?

Part one of my question. But then part two, I mean, you know, there's this thing looming in a beautiful sunset somewhere one day that just happens to be called Paradise. Do you potentially see yourself frolicking on the beach meeting?

On the beach. Many men. Listen, the dating apps didn't work for me before. I don't think they'll work for me now because, like, you're what considered like public figures now i don't know how comfortable i am about putting myself out there and besides this experience i've always loved meeting people organically so i'm pretty sure i won't be on any dating apps but um paradise i don't know it's it's up in the air right now to

be honest with you i think it will really depend on where i am in my life at that point if i get the call I'll really think about it, but I don't know. It's definitely not a, yes, definitely right now. Think about it. We'd like to see more of you. And I will tell you this. This is one of the positive things. Okay, maybe we sometimes we talk about the not so great things.

But one of the best things I feel from going through this experience is because it's the OG quarantine, right? When you're stripped from everything, you're in this bubble, and all you can deal with is yourself and your feelings and what you want. in life. And when you, when that bubble burst, you're so vulnerable because you've been having these conversations over and over again, laying in your bed at night, flying. Oh, gosh, that was like, I felt like that was rude. I was going to say flying on these planes to places. And you have it. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I got carried away. I was so sorry.

But when the bubble burst and you're back in the real world, you are so in touch with how you feel that it does make dating easier because you're so open and you know what you want. So it's like, nope, you waste my time. Oh, I'm very open. I just, I love love and I just, I want this for myself because I can know,

it's romanticized. I don't know, there's something special about that. Just honey, this has been so fun having you on. I have one final question, but before I have this actual real final question, I just want to know, going back to, and I don't want to keep talking about the drama,

but in the moment when you, you and MJ were sitting down on the couch before Matt came in and you called her Meredith, which we know is her real name, but I don't think anyone was. Oh, it is? I didn't catch that. What made you say that? Were you just feeling like we're just going to go all in? You know, it was the complete lack of self-awareness for me. And it was like trying my hardest to keep it together because unfortunately, I I know that if I had bursted and reacted the way she did, people wouldn't necessarily react the way they would towards her as they would me.

You know what I mean? So I had to keep it together. And I just knew that that would probably get under her skin a little bit. Push her over the edge a little bit. Just because at that point, it was just purely frustration. I was like, okay, I'm over this, you know? Yeah. Well, when I heard that, I was like, who, I should have popped some popcorn.

And that's the thing is a lot of us will say things out of frustration in the moment. And it's tough because week after week, it's been one wrench after the other. So a lot of us, you know, we have our moments where, you know, in a big way or small way, you know, how we express ourselves might offend someone. But it's never directly towards them per se. It's more like the situation. And they're just the physical embodiment of what's happening right now. it's natural just kind of like get frustrated and blow it on them on them but um yeah it's definitely

something to keep in mind well it's a great segue then to go into our last question the big and the small we always ask all of our guests this overall because we've now seen your entire journey on the bachelor play out what was your rose and what was your thorn of the season uh i'll start with my thorn so we can leave it on a good note my thorn would have to be again playing on wishing that there was more more stories that were shared

I think that this is an incredible cast of women and I would have loved to have seen more of those stories unfold and the other part of that Thorne would have to be I guess just kind of you know I always knew that bachelor nation was huge

I always knew that but it is ironic to see people who supposedly support the show and they bash you for one thing or the other but they do it in a way where they're degrading you and calling you names and it's like well you're turning around and doing the same thing that you're judging these women for so for me my message would be think about it before you comment that because the internet is forever and screenshots are a thing and my rose would have to be

meeting all of these really incredible women. I feel like I always knew that if I didn't get the guy, I'd walk away with some really special friendships, and I feel confident in that. And another part of that would have to be, I was capable of being really vulnerable with Matt and opening up with him about things that were important to me. And it almost felt like a practice around even like now I feel more ready to meet someone than I did before so I feel good about it it's a stepping stone to lead you to where you got to be all right justine it has been an absolute pleasure

having you on yes thank you so much we can't wait to see everything go down to see you again on our screens during the women tell all so until then thank you thank you so much for having me guys have a great jacinia was great I really enjoyed her and as you said earlier it's it's great when come on here and we can have longer conversations and really get to understand these women, why they're on, why they're on the show, and why they made it as far as they did. Yeah. It's just, it's so much more personal. Like, we, we, I feel like we saw more of just any of this, what, 30, 40 minutes that we had on than we did. And so it's just, I feel very, like, this might sound cheesy, but blessed in a way to be able to have these,

I mean, for the most amazing women on for the world to see. you know, hopefully, like I said, we'll see more of them in paradise and more of their stories unfold and more connections forming between the women and whatever men we see. But yeah, yeah, it was really good to have her. She said something there, I think, when she was talking about, like, the Thorne overall, just insightful, I think, I would say. Yeah. And what I do appreciate, too, is, you know, we've been critical in saying we don't, you know, see these relationships develop. But what's satisfying is they were there. They did have these relationships. she felt that they were developing

and we've heard that reiterated on the show before so I'm glad that she said that it's made her ready for the next person which really is a beautiful thing that you can come out with out of this entire franchise you guys

once again thanks so much for hanging out with us. It's been a great episode we're excited for next week next week it's dun dun dun town's I have no idea what to expect. It's going to be quite interesting for a lot of reasons. One thing I'm hoping for is that we don't see the same things that were done during

Tasha's season in this hometown. I don't want to see, remember those basketball hoops that they had, that little kid, it was a great, it was fun, it was fun in spirit, but it was like, I don't want to see that. I don't want to see anybody doing dance moves like Brendan. I don't want to see cardboard taxis. I don't want to see. What else did we see that? Bagels, eating bagels.

It was cute. Yeah. It was cute in theory. But guess what? I'm already seeing that with Nimakol and they have stepped things up. You know, we're seeing them leave the property or maybe the property is so big. They're on the property this entire time. It looks like we're finally getting the love stories that we want to see.

So we'll just have to wait and see how it all plays out. But if you guys have any questions, any comments, any guest ideas, you know. know where to find us at Batchor Happy Hour on Instagram and at Batch Happy Hour on Facebook and Twitter. And as always, you guys, if you never want to miss listening to us or an episode, please subscribe to our podcast. You can do that on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, The Wonder app, or wherever you're listening to us right now. Thanks, guys. Take care. It's important that we just reassure people that they're not alone and there is help out there. Two takes a deep look into One Tribe Foundation, a non-profit fighting suicide in the veteran

community. September is National Suicide Prevention Month, so join host Jacob and Ashley Schick as they bring you to the front lines of One Tribe's mission. One Tribe, save my life twice. Welcome to Season 2 of the Good Stuff. Listen to the Good Stuff podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, host of the psychology podcast. Here's a clip from an upcoming conversation. about how to be a better you. When you think about emotion regulation, you're not going to choose an adaptive strategy

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