Bachelor Happy Hour - The Most Dramatic Fantasy Suites in Bachelorette History?

Episode Date: September 7, 2022

This week, Becca and Michelle share their thoughts on what Bachelor Nation is calling the most dramatic Fantasy Suites in Bachelorette history! With no shortage of jaw dropping moments to discuss, Becca and Michelle break it down date by date and even throw in a few memories from their own Fantasy Suite experiences. Don’t forget to rate and subscribe so you never miss an episode.See omny.fm/listener for privacy information.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to the new season of Dresses Come Again on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, Bachelor Happy Hour listeners? I'm Becca Kufrin. And I'm Michelle Young. And we are so looking forward to being back with you this week for a double whammy to talk about both of the episodes this week on The Bachelorette. And of course, the ongoing journeys of our girls' guests. Gabby and Rachel. And it's time for fantasy sweets, people.

There's so much that has happened during Gabby and Rachel's Fantasy Suites Week that they actually had to split the show up into two different episodes. Yeah, I have to say, I think this was the most wild fantasy sweet week we've seen. A lot went down, and we are going to get into all of that. But before we do that, I mean, like, Michelle, you remember in your season, this is like truly the week that changed everything. Like, it was your first time you were, you were alone with your guys and, I mean, we're really seeing both women's relationships shift with these men. I mean, I feel like these men are just dropping like flies. So there's a lot. There's definitely a lot

to dissect with all of that. But in the meantime, first, let's do a little check-in. It's been a week since we've seen each other and have caught up. So what's going on with you? hey i mean i'm wrapping things up in minnesota we have the state fair oh so i'm going to be heading there this week i know i'm already preparing to have a stomach egg for a few days because of how much food i eat just pregame with peptobismal absolutely yep peptobismosin sponsor me throw some tums in your bag you'll be set to bismol yeah that'd be a good brand partner for this month but then just you know kind of tying up all my loose ends before i had to l.A. the next few months.

Yay! I'm so excited. I'm so excited for you to be out here. I'm also very jealous about you going to the state fair because unless you're a Minnesota local native, like, you, no one can truly understand like the holds that the state fair has on Minnesotans. It's like the biggest thing of the year, truly like the most random, cool, crazy, unique culinary experience. So please

let me live vicariously through you and take photos of everything you eat. I'm going to like taste and rank all the new foods in everything. But also like even outside of Minnesota though, it's like the number, I don't know if it's the number one or the number two state fair in the entire

U.S. It's the place to be. Yeah. It really is. How about you? You need to fill us in though. Oh. You need to fill us in. Well, we have so much we have to cover today. Man. So much. I mean, life's life's the same nothing new with me we're still working on the house Thomas is still with the mistress um working on that house we finally have closet space which is incredible but yeah we've

just been it's been super hot here in california I feel like I've never heard people talk about the weather so much being here so when you move out like get ready for a heat wave leave all of the leave all of your cold weather clothes behind you will not need them that's not an issue but like how hot are we talking I mean like San Diego gets hot obviously at Southern California, but like because we're still coastal, you always get this nice breeze. It's like never ungodly hot, but like it's been like in the 90s these past couple days this weekend, like this past weekend was like pushing 100. So get right. And when you come to California, you're going to be more in the valley, which is even hotter. So just be warned. Okay, but Michelle,

I really want to talk to you about fantasy suites because obviously we're in the midst of that with Gabby and Rachel, but it was not so long ago that you were in their shoes and you had your own week of fantasy suites and talk a little bit to our listeners about like kind of where your mindset was both like when you were a contestant on Matt's season going into fantasy suites versus when you were the lead because it's like pretty pretty different. Yeah, exactly. It is it is so different and it's just such an odd experience because when you're going in as a contestant, you're very aware that you are dated or that the lead is dating several people so you know that you're not the only person that's there and so call it an open relationship you know in the real

world whatever it's you know labeled as right you are aware that there are others that are involved and so I think what's really weird to go into it is that just because you know that um and that you chose experience doesn't always make it easier now does it make you make you you kind of put you into a place where you like you kind of have to just accept it if you're going to continue absolutely because that's part of the deal um but like as a contestant side you know my fantasy suite like going into it my fantasy suite was first um and for me that was kind of it's it's just tricky because it's like you have your night and you get to a certain point and then you're like sitting and like twiddling your thumbs for however many days you know go on and it's just like there's

to overthink but then when you're the last person then you know that everybody else who you know had that fantasy night before you like you I don't know like it's just it's such a weird and odd situation as a contestant when you so when you're a contestant during fantasy sweet week where like where was your date where did you line up were you the first middle I was the first you were the first yeah our date was like um what did we do we did like this really weird like Norwegian spa so we're like spreading butter over each other's bodies like grease balls you know so romantic you know super sexy super super but but yeah so like I was first and I will say that like and going from hometowns to people don't realize like how much

time potentially is in between because if you have the very first hometown or two and not the not until the last fantasy suite like you could go a week and a half, two weeks without seeing your lead. One of the guys on my season went close to two weeks. And I will say kind of affected the outcome of everything. And it's always interesting too, because you kind of always like, I mean, you've watched the season now for a little bit. You kind of know what to expect.

And if there's a contestant who's like very much so in their head, I kind of already know like, okay, they're going to be the second. or last fantasy suite. Like they're going to kind of push it to the limits a bit and like make them wait it out a bit longer. I remember going into fantasy suites as a contestant that week being so, this is going to sound bad, but like so confident that I was like, it's me, it's a done deal. He's going to send the other two girls home.

I was like such a weird mindset that I was like, I'm on vacation right now. Like, sure, I get to see my like my boyfriend one night and like have some alone time with him but I'm just on vacation just chilling like it wasn't too stressful until my ex-ex showed up and that's where like shit really hit the fan it was like a weird time um but but it but when you're the lead it truly and we always talk about like how you have to compartmentalize relationships but that week especially you have to really compartmentalize because it's the first time you're ever alone and you can ever have certain conversations with these men and so you really have to put everyone, not in a box.

I don't want to say, like, in a box, but, like, keep them separate, you know? Yes. I fully feel like that, too. I have an interesting question for you about fantasy suites. Give it to me. So, okay, so there's the, it's not even a social stigma, right? Of, like, you know, there's

physical activities that, you know, that can take place. But also, like, fantasy suites, it's like, you go into it. You're not having a conversation where there's no cameras around. And, like, so many of those things, it's just more fluid, right? Was there a certain topic that you were like, I want to talk about this, if you're

comfortable saying, I want to talk about this topic going into like fantasy suits? Because a lot of people choose that time to talk about finances, like religion, you know, things of that sort. I'm not going to give any detail away because I'm not even going to let people run with it. But for one of my guys, there was, there was. there was one thing that I for sure was like I need to talk about and like just say and get it out there

and now looking back there I would have done things a thousand times differently like I always joke about like if I were to do this again which I would never but I'd be like who did you vote for or what about this like what are your political census how do you feel about XYZ like there's so many more things

like I feel like when I went into it. A, it's like you're excited, right? Because this is the first time you're alone and it's been two months since you've really been like able to get super physical or intimate with somebody. Two months plus like I was just like ready for it. Like ready to be alone. Ready to like get the cameras away. Like and I was just like so excited. It was so fun. It's like you prop in champagne. You're eating chocolate. You can do whatever you want. That like I went into that mindset where I was like, I just want to have a good time. Right. Right. And now looking back, there's so many more things I wished I would have talked about, which is why then going into paradise, I was like, if I start to like somebody, I'm for sure going to have these conversations. So I can kind of shift the mindset then. But I mean, yeah, it's like you can really use that time to your advantage to do whatever you want, whatever. And everyone, we have talked to multiple leads who have utilized their time vastly differently. Like there are some people who didn't even talk. And then there are people who only talk. It's like, It's kind of up to you.

Oh, God, there was one other thing. Ooh, this is what I wanted to ask you. Did you go into a fantasy suite with any of your guys or maybe multiple thinking it was going to probably be one way? Like, thinking it's going to be the best overnight. This is going to be so great for us. And then the next day, not necessarily feeling like that and feeling kind of off. Kind of like, I guess how Rachel and Zach seemed to feel where you were like, oh, I'm so expected it to turn out a different way. okay I expected to go into fantasy suites with coming out of it feeling like thinking that one of them was going to go really wrong or like just have that like this is not the person you know what I mean this is not what I wanted to learn from it but then I came out of it and that didn't happen so that was more my shocker is the fact that I it almost made it more difficult because of you know I was able to get to know everybody as I was saying.

you know as I needed to so but what about for you oh yeah for both of them yeah I went in to one of them being like it's a done deal I already know who I'm picking this season it's going to be so great to be alone and then coming out feeling like a little bit off and then for another being like you know it's like going to be fun whatever it is what it is and then being like wow that was so much more than I expected right like it was very it was like the first time where I like the entire season, I thought it was going to be one way, one person. And that was the week where it finally was like, oh, I could have been wrong for these past eight or nine weeks, whatever week we're in. And now I really am down to the wire and only have one week left. And what the fuck am I going to do?

That's what I feel like I, if there's one thing that I'd want viewers to know, it is how fast emotions genuinely change. And like when we, you know, you see leads that are saying, you know what I mean, like that are falling for multiple people but then like aren't you know sure still like continuing it's because it's like you literally have one conversation for 15 minutes or one overnight whatever it is and though your whole

world is just like shifted it's so odd then it's such an odd like just experience to explain yeah well and that's let's get into Rachel and Gabby's experiences not that like I can't even say their experiences because we weren't there but like what we saw

because like every time I'm trying to watch both of these women and their interactions, I'm trying to, like, put myself back in that mindset and, like, put myself in their shoes to, like, try to, you know, sift through, like, what they were maybe thinking. And, like, I kind of have, like, my ideas of how everything transpired with these men. So, like, let's just start from the beginning. First episode, Fantasy Suites, let's just call it part one. We're in Mexico. It's lovely. We start out with Gabby and Eric. And, like, we don't even really need to talk about the day portion. Their night portion was great.

They seemed to have a good overnight. It wasn't really until like he showed up later where things got rocky with Eric. But since the beginning, Eric has been Gabby's frontrunner. Like chemistry has been off of the charts. But this is like the first time where we start to see Eric really get in his head. Just imagining what she's going to be doing and talking about. with these other men. What were your thoughts on, like, seeing him?

I don't even want to say spiral downward, because I wouldn't say it's that, but just get in his head so much. I think what's, okay, so when I was watching it from my perspective, this is the first time that he's going through an experience like this. Like, there is not always, like, a perfect way to handle it or handle every single situation.

And it's like, I think, a lot of times we sit and watch and we expect these contestants to not have the emotion. And like that's not necessarily true. It's just you have to be able to acknowledge it and how you control it or how you work past and work through it. And I think by the end of the time they had their conversation where he was vocal and said that I wanted this to be a positive thing about him just, you know, feeling heard of like this is really scary for me. you know and but him apologizing that it came off you know negatively but also with gabby's reaction it seemed like they had spoken about um a different like depth of things and so it was really hard for me to even like read who would i don't even know if someone's in the right someone's in the

wrong well it was a very hard situation for viewers because we didn't get much context the only thing we're really going off of is like they apparently talked about something much more in depth when they were alone, understandably so. And then he brought it up in some sort of vague way again that we don't have any context. We don't know any details. So I guess like only going off of what we know and what we saw, if you were in that situation, like how would you have reacted? Like it obviously jolted Gabby a lot to the point where she's like, I need a minute because we've already talked about this. And then it made her feel very uncomfortable. Okay. So, okay, so I'm going to throw a question back to you. When you were watching it, did you become more focused on like where both of their feelings, like on their feelings about each other? Or did you become more focused on the fact that the conversation was about having conversations on camera, off camera? Because like, that's what I got distracted by.

No, for me, it wasn't necessarily that. It was more so, well, my main takeaway, to be honest, was more so Gabby's reaction and the word she was. choosing to say of like this feels off now this doesn't sit well with me i feel like he's kind of pushing me into a corner like it's a lot of like what i would say like trigger words and maybe red flags for me as like a viewer or a friend or just like watching a woman say these things where i'm just now like listen to your gut if something feels off it probably is that's where i'm very hesitant it's more so like her now going through these emotions of like, why are you bringing this up again? I feel back into a corner.

I feel like you're pressuring me. Did you feel like he gave her an ultimatum? I would, I mean, I don't know enough because I don't know the whole conversation. But from what I saw, I would say no. I don't think he was saying you can't go into these other overnights. And she obviously still was going to explore them. And I think what was a good thing for her since the beginning was like, I want to explore every relationship to the end.

whether we get to another overnight or not let me make that decision on my own and I think he understood her enough to know she was going to do that regardless but it was more so like I don't I don't even know I don't even want to say it was like she need he needed to be validated again I think it was just like he's struggling I get it but like also if it's something you've already talked about and kind of worked it out alone leave it at that like she knows how much you're struggling she knows it's hard she was in your shoes last season i think it was more so like i think the overall situation just kind of rubbed me the wrong way because if he wanted to go into it and you know just like see her and hug her and

be like hey i miss you i love you have a good night that's one thing obviously that's not what was executed and so for her to then leave that second conversation feeling off and feeling pressure. That's where I just as a human, I'm like, listen to that. Like if you're feeling that, listen to that. Yeah. Gosh. Yeah. Yeah. No, I completely agree with what you're saying just at the end of the day. It's kind of just her body language and how she was responding to it. But then it did seem like he kind of responded back and adjusted. It's just, it's such an emotionally high time, too. It's like you go into it where I'm sure he wanted to go and see her and just, you know, feel that. And it was like, I love you or just all these different feelings and then it was just like well yeah like it just

and she had already gone through like you take everything into consideration she had already gone through a shitty day like she had to say goodbye well she didn't have to but she chose to say goodbye to johnny early she's already dealing with that breakup now add on this surprise that didn't quite go as plain it's a lot to tack on in in the same day it's a lot for her and he didn't know that so it's not like i can fault him because he had no idea idea that's not on him but it was just a lot and I think you know like in certain situations it's better to better to be alone you know you don't always have to see somebody and be like I love you yeah and I think just giving her the space to make her decision yeah so at the end of the day it's her journey well and that's exactly what she said and that's what I have in my notes is at the end of the day we can have our thoughts and opinions and we can say we would have done something differently but she even said it she's like if I'm going to pick Eric at the end of this that's my decision and like that's on me

and just respect that and I appreciate that she said that and I hope I mean even for us like we can take that to heart because you know like we don't have to appreciate a situation but we're not the ones living it anymore. Exactly. So um exactly. Okay let's get into the next couple of fantasy

suites. Rachel and Avin went fine. Nothing really stood out to me there. No. But I want to ask you this because I feel like they've always had just like such an easy, chill, you know, happy go lucky relationship. But like we don't see a ton of them because there's really no conflict, right? Like there's no drama. So it's not like taking up a lot of

our showtime. So I want to ask you this because we see how exuberant Rachel is with some of the other men. How do you think her and Avin's relationship compares to her relationship with Tino and Zach? I feel like it's comfortable. Like, Like it's just, it's being the Bachelorette or a part of the experience, it's a really uncomfortable journey, right? A lot of pushing outside your comfort zones. And when she's with Avin, it just kind of seems comfortable, like a reminder, very normal. But I even noticed in this past episode when they were going on there overnight, like day date, she, when she was speaking about Ava, she said, attractive, you know, but then, like, personality. I want to know, like, good guy, but I feel like that's kind of all we know about him.

We don't know too much. Again, it could be from what we're not seeing. But it is really, really easy. I just don't know how much depth there is to their relationship. And I think that's where, you know, that's where I'm holding up. There's nothing wrong with it, but there's just not depth. It's just not, I would say, as a viewer, it doesn't seem to be on par with, how she feels with Tino and how she feels and is with Zach.

Right. It's like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, if we've watched seasons, you kind of know, like, who for sure the front runners are, like, who for sure is going to make it to the end. And, like, here, I can see it so much more clearly of her being with Zach or Tino and not necessarily even. There's just so much more passion there. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. I agree. I would say. I agree. And maybe that's because these. the silver guy we're going to talk about and Jesse Colton very passionate so let's get into Tino

um yes okay oh god I don't even know where you're going to start okay so we're gonna I'm gonna set this up for you so they go horseback riding through the jungle bucket list day for Rachel but she's also really really

in her head about Tino's family not liking her and so really not liking her and I okay I want to stop ask you, what would you do in that situation? Because you gone through hometowns and you saw that hometown happen. How long do you, or how much weight does the family carry? That's a great question. Because I think if you're dating somebody in normal life, it holds so much weight because you have more time to explore a relationship individually and explore a relationship with the family

before potential engagement in this scenario because everything is so sped up and so heightened it's difficult but like it holds a lot of weight because you don't just marry somebody you marry their family and like if I'm very family oriented like my mom and sister are my best friends so that holds a lot of weight to me and not everyone has that relationship with their family but for me personally it would mean a lot And like it would be very tough, not even for me, but like to put that on my partner. If like say, say I was Rachel and say I knew Tina was the one at the end of this. Like I would, that would be tough for me to put him in that position with his family where, you know,

I would know maybe they wouldn't accept this decision. But I would also then just hope for the best and hope that with time they can learn to accept and respect our relationship and accept and respect me. right yeah it's like you have to understand that it's your family and it's a very serious decision and it's also a lot to actually understand the whole entire process and journey and then when usually meet them you haven't seen them you haven't spoken to them and they're seeing this whole new vulnerable side of you and it's like you have but you also have to have this like inkling like some inch of okay they are going to accept me in the future because at the end of the day they

should be like with whatever you choose you know we want you to be happy and so it doesn't mean that necessarily like yeah you get engaged like the family isn't just all of a sudden not going to have doubts because track records whatever you want to call it but also like you have to see that they're willing to put in the work to understand and accept you as well right and i'm not sure if rachel feels that with tino's family yeah well my what i really took away from that conversation is like when Rachel is addressing Tino about his family and how she feels like they didn't accept her, they wouldn't accept her. He seemed to be so clueless as, and I don't want to say he's clueless, but like in regards to this situation, he seemed very clueless and shocked that

his dad especially said certain things to Rachel, which in my mind, I'm like, where was the disconnect? Because was the family not relaying that same information to Tino? Did he just not choose to see it or hear it like there was such a disconnect that i'm like you guys all have a lot more to talk about and get on the same page before potential engagement because like it's not just like she felt like they didn't like her it's like certain things that were said to her that should have also then been said to tino from his family i feel like um i i i feel like i want to have him on the i want to ask him him watching his family or his you know his his home, home visit, hometown visit back, I want to know, like, what things or what disconnect

he saw or sees or still sees or just his thoughts on how he felt it went. And, like, is he just not acknowledging them and is just not a big deal or is a completely different message related, like you said? Yeah, it just, it's like, I understand there's lines of miscommunication that happen in any conversation. I have it with Thomas all the time or with my mom. Like, but this is a big one where he went into being like Rachel, they liked you, they'll embrace you if it's us at the end. And she's like, no, your family flat outside X, Y, Z to me, where I know that they probably wouldn't. So it's like, what are we missing? It was just, and again, there's so much that we miss that we just didn't see. I mean, I'm sure the conversation with his family and

then with Rachel and Tino together went on way longer than we saw. There's a lot that we just aren't privy to, and that's okay, but I can only piece together what I'm seen as a viewer, and I was just like, where is this disconnect in communication? Yeah, but it was also like it was not, I mean,

we were very much uncomfortable at watching it as Rachel was still uncomfortable, you know, so it wasn't like, Rachel's like, oh yeah, this is like all great, Rachel's just like, oh shit, this is still not exactly you know, necessarily what I want, but but regardless of all,

of that though we still saw her tell tino that she loves him what were your thoughts like were you surprised to hear that um yes i was surprised to hear that she said i love you not because i didn't think that she didn't feel it i just think that she sometimes has been very discarded with her words of you know what to say or how to navigate certain situations and so that's where i was just like wait it wasn't even i'm falling in love with you it was like i'm there with you correct like i'm there i'm there I'm here right now. Yeah. So I was like, okay.

All right, Rachel, let's go. We got a lot to work through, but here we are. What are your thoughts? Were you, were you happy when you heard Rachel tell Tina that she loves him? I don't know if happy's so right for it. I mean, it is what it is. Like at the end of the day, this isn't my relationship. This is somebody else's.

There's a lot that I don't know and feel. And so, I mean, like for me, taking it back to my own. experience again like I I was only going to tell one man at the end of my season that I loved them I wasn't going to say to anyone else before that very last day and that was my decision and she's choosing not to and that's totally fine like I didn't yeah but but also too for me just being like a critical viewer here I'm like you got a lot of work to do like with the family too so just like be a little bit guarded that's okay I don't know I mean I want to okay one more protective of her I do well for both of them you know it's like we know them now we love them they're incredible

women and it's like you want the best for your friends it's just but okay one thing more in regards to Tina that I want to ask um and this is this is now fast forwarding to like the very end of the second episode but like still in relation to fantasy sweets um all three of rachel's men are like on different pages right like Tina walks in with jessie being like well okay let me back up. Zach walks in with Jesse being like, I'm super unsure. Fantasy Suites didn't go as well as I thought. Like, I'm very confused now.

Avan walks in being like, yeah, it was great, cool, feel good like I've been this entire season, see you soon. Then Tina walks in and is like, and maybe I'm just picking apart certain things that were said that rubbed me the wrong way. But he walks in being like, I executed that flawlessly. It went so well. I couldn't have planned it better. certain verbiage that just like for me kind of gave me a oh like the ick a little bit that I'm just like did you have to execute alone time flawlessly or could you like were you still yourself that's where I'm like just as a viewer left very uncomfortable yeah I think that

anytime somebody uses the word execution when you're talking about relationships and being vulnerable, it sounds like you have an intent, like an intention to act a certain way. And it's like you can plan or you can, you want things to go well. You want to talk about certain things. You plan to talk about certain things. But when you execute it, it's calculated. And it's like that's just not a word that we use to describe like being yourself, authenticity, falling in love, vulnerability. Like this execution, execution ain't it. Yeah. Thank you. Not the right word. Yes. I, yeah, it's like we're not giving a business presentation here. We are, you know, hopefully finding a lifelong partner. So it was either, it was either a misuse of a word or misintentions or not the correct intentions, misuse intentions. Again, which is something like if we can have him on the podcast, eventually I would love to pick his brain and have him explain better because I'm sure I could imagine maybe him watching this back. He's like, oh, maybe I shouldn't have said that or maybe I should have held off. I want to try to give people the benefit of the doubt.

before we talk to them. Always. So I'd be very intrigued to hear his side. But moving along to some of the next fellas. You know, Johnny, we don't really need to get into. He left. I'm sure we'll see him on the beaches of Mexico some other time very soon. Sionara Johnny.

Jason? Back? Yes. So Jason is another interesting fantasy suite overnight that we haven't necessarily seen two things. So we haven't necessarily seen somebody so uncomfortable by the cameras before. True. But also, if you think back to Jason's hometown date, he did talk to his family about he's not sure if he can get there. Like, he said that to his family when they asked him if he was ready to be engaged.

Right. Yeah. So he did express that, correct? But. But not to Gabby. He did to his family. But not to Gabby. Right.

But he did have those feelings. So the fact that he was continuing to have those feelings, I wasn't necessarily surprised that he was continuing to have those feelings. But the fact that being, I mean, us being in those situations, you know how much you talk about an engagement. So if you're not ready for an engagement, that is something that gets pointed out right away when those feelings begin. So I was very kind of just surprised that he made it to this point

after so clearly knowing and really feeling like he can't get there. Right. And and we see the the differences between Gabby and what she's thinking with him versus what he's thinking like she even started the first episode of this week being like

I know Eric and Jason are there with me. Like I know how they feel. I know we you know I can see an engagement and being in love at the end of this to him being like I can't get engaged. And I don't necessarily think it's like, I guess for me, it was interesting because we haven't necessarily really seen an overnight like this, where they go into it being like, let's spend this alone time together to see where we can get. And I, you know, usually if you have that time, you would expect feelings and emotions to grow and conversations to be able to expand to get to the

next level. And this one was one where it really lessened. Like he left. that fantasy suite, not only being like, you know, I can't get engaged, but like, we're not going to work out. Like, it really digressed, which that was the surprising part to me is it wasn't just like, you know, I really like you and I could see a future with you. I just can't get engaged. It ended of like, you aren't for me. And this is definitely not going to work out. Do you feel like it could have even had the chance to go the other direction? Because overnight, night's okay you're not spending a week with this person right with no cameras like you're spending what is it like eight hours maybe it's not that long okay depending on the man yes

it's right and so I was just like that that time that I do do understand stepping away to get your thoughts in place in order but like spending the night in two separate rooms If you're, like, emotionally already at that spot where you already know, like, yes, this is my person. Like, if it's, like, a beliefs thing, totally get it. But, like, I think I would just would have stayed and talked through, continue to talk through so much more to decide in that moment, honestly. Because it's, that's so much time that I feel like is, like, left that you could use to work through. Not work through it as in work it and make it better, but to, like, also talk through and be like, this person. yeah, this person's not it. Or would you have split too? That's where I'm like, I'm trying to think

about. Would you split and go into different rooms or no? I probably would have just left on my own then. I would have been like, I don't want to stay here. You can have this room, Sainara. But I guess like, okay, this is an interesting situation because it's not like Jason gave Gabby an ultimatum, but he did say, you know, like I like you, I don't see an engagement at the end of this. I can't get there. we've seen this similar situation take place in the past but in a slightly different format so you know basically with gabby and jason they they had an overnight where they tried to have a conversation and he told her i like you but i just don't think i'll be able to get to an engagement at the end of this take it back a few seasons ago to tasha and brendan like he was one of her top three men before they went into overnights he said and and this is me just paraphrasing something similar of like, I like you, but I can't get engaged at the end of this. And that because I think the way the format was where they didn't even go into the overnights and give it a shot was so blown on a proportion. And I remember doing the

podcast with Rachel Lindsay at that point. And she, you know, she was very, she had her views of like, why would you come on the show if you're not willing and ready to get engaged? You know what is at the end of this, which I completely understand. That, like the Gabby Jason situation really is no different. Like he is for now a couple weeks at least with his family saying I don't see an engagement. I can't get there. And so it'll be interesting, I think, to see how viewers react to that. Because I remember when it happened a couple years ago with Brendan, people tore him apart. I wonder if that's also going to be similar to this situation. But for you personally, if you had one of your top three guys say the same thing to you like i like if okay maybe not even the same thing but if you

had somebody that you were very into be like i like you i care about you i could see a future i just can't get down on one knee and give you a ring in a week how do you think you would handle that and react i think that that would have been a conversation that i would have needed to have with that person at the beginning just because when you're going through meeting all these people you're talking to it like you are very flat out setting everything out there that you want that you know and you don't get to know somebody to the depths that you would in the real world but it's still a risk and so it's sometimes less about the like actual ring and like the engagement and more of like the fact that you're already taking a risk as is even if you're madly in love with the person

because there's no way you can get to know them and so are they a person that is going to stick around then you know so for me I would have needed to hear that and I would have needed to have like that conversation at the beginning so that I knew that going

into it because when you lay it on right now then it just like puts a ton of other questions into it because yeah it's not realistic to get engaged after knowing somebody for how many months is it possible yeah it is but you have to have two people who believe in it.

And if you don't believe in it, then is it really going to work? Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. I mean, I can see all points of view here. Would you, if somebody said that, because at this time, why wouldn't you say that ahead of time?

Yeah, unless maybe he thought he could have gotten there, which, you know, it seems like from everything he's already been saying he wasn't going to get there, which is one thing. Yeah, it's like, and maybe for me, and this is just me and I know people, aren't going to believe it because I've been engaged a thousand times before but like if it was my season and also depends on the guy right like always but if there was like the person that I

knew I wanted to be with at the end of the season like if they that last day would have been like I love you I want to explore this relationship and continue being together outside of this and like see how we can mesh our lives together and like really put in the work but I can't get down on one knee when I was the lead I would have honestly probably been fine with that. I would have been like, look, if I love you two and we're on the same page, let's do this together. Don't put another ring on it. That's fine. If you're not a thousand percent there, but if you're telling me you are willing to put in the work and commit and be loyal and have a respectful relationship, let's see where that could go. I would too, depend, like you, depending on

the person, but it's also depending on how it's related because you can feel like you know somebody. And if you're talking about engagement, love, being in love, or all these different things and these experiences and then all of a sudden they whip out that they're not ready it's gonna seem like a blind time it's gonna seem like you were let on right so it's like if it's done in the right way i think i would completely be like yeah like i really want it with like life with you and explore that with you you know and i'm willing to do that in a relationship but it's more of like this is the first time i'm hearing this when you've been hearing me talk about an engagement the entire time right oh totally and then it's like oh we're not on the same page you know

And with this situation specifically with Jason, he did seem very hesitant. I'm like, I towards the end of that conversation, I was like, do you even like this girl? Like, I'm very confused now of where you're at. But he said, yes, and I was so surprised. I don't know if you or what your thoughts were when he said this, but after they kind of already had the conversation or he was trying to explain to her of what he wanted and that he did care about her, he said, like, if we were to take this, I want to take this out. outside of the show and spend time with you and then if it gets serious. Like he used the word if it gets serious and I was like, uh, like this has been serious. She already thought it was serious.

I was like, wait, what do you mean? It's another. Like, this has been very serious. Yeah. It's another example of like very disconnected communication where she was on one page. He was very much so on another and they weren't going to get there. Like they, at that point there was no way they were going to, they could have done a week of overnights alone away from cameras and I don't think they would have gotten there.

Do you feel like they should have completely skipped overnights or like you feel like Gabby should have cut him at dinner? I don't think so. I think they were both open to exploring and having that conversation. So if they and I think they both went in with a shirt of hope being like we could maybe get there let's see. So it's like I think that if they both were on the same page at that point to see where it could go by all means take that time. Like right. And I agree. And I I think if anything, it just helps them both realize this is not going to work out, which in the long run, like, helps them both realistically. Right, yeah.

But they, you want them to have. I mean, the decision might not feel good, but at least it's clarity. It's, yeah. And I know we're going to get a lot of feedback from all of our listeners and viewers about this situation in general, because I remember bringing it back to a couple of seasons ago when this happened when Tasha and Brendan, we had a lot of opinions. And everyone is entitled to their own opinion. And I would love to hear what people have to say if they think they're similar situations, if they think they're vastly different.

How would you handle it if you were in Gabby's position? Yeah. So that was, well, we have one more fantasy suite or one more overnight that we have to get into, which didn't go as planned, kind of the theme here of this week. But Rachel and Zach, like they have been a standout relationship since the beginning, like right out the gate. Rachel was super into him, vice versa. They bonded so deeply over like their upbringings and their families. So it was crazy to see him leave that fantasy suite and that overnight, like a complete 180. And that was, I think, the most shocking one, I would say for me because, I mean, you know me.

Every week I'm like, Zach's going to be like one of the top two. It's going to be Zach. Zach's going to the end. And now I'm like, what the hell happened? That's flip my world upside down this past episode with Zach. Yeah. And, you know, not necessarily like it's as, again, flipping your world upside down doesn't mean that anyone necessarily did anything wrong.

But it was just, I was incredibly shocked. And just even when, so to just talk about everything, Zach, they went into their fantasy suite. And then, you know, they came out. Did they say, I, did they say I love you or I'm falling in love with you? I think they've already, well, they already exchanged it a couple weeks ago. Like, I remember she said it in, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think she said it in Holland, right? When they were biking through the... Yes, okay.

Or he already told her, like, in Holland that he was falling in love with her when they were biking through the tulips and went in the hot tub. And so it's been a while for him to say it. Yeah. And then, so he's sitting down after this fantasy suit with Jesse and is talking about how, like, he's visibly upset. he's visibly, you know, uncomfortable and it's just talking about how he really expected it to go one way, but it went another way

and just really was, seemed kind of hurt that Rachel questioned if he's ready for an engagement at the end of this. Is that what you got of the big picture of what he was really hurt by? Or bothered by? Like, I haven't really seen a situation like this, since Andy Dorfman on Juan Pablo's season

where somebody's really calling the lead out and it seems like he's really calling Rachel out for something that we have no idea what happened because there was no cameras there. So now I'm interested to see like how much was said or like how much was that driven into him of like I don't think you're ready. And also like where is that coming from?

You know, it's like he's even though he's 25 he's at least to me has seemed very mature has been very expressive and open about how he's feeling and what he wants at the end of this. He's ever given me like off vibes of like if he's ready to fall in love and get engaged and be a partner for life. Like even on his first one-on-one day with her, they're not even the first one-on-one date with her, both of the couple one-on-one dates that he's had with her. He's been very open about his past traumas, like what he went through to get to where he is today, what he's looking for. And so that's where I was confused of, like, the, the why behind this conversation. Wow.

I'm even more confused now. Okay. Well, and it's, like, age is something that we've talked about on the show quite a bit is, like, you know, people can be mature and be younger. And people can be older and be very mature. It's all about, like, kind of life experience and, like, how we got to where we are today. And Zach always has seemed very mature even for 25. So, yeah. And I guess it's like, it's not around something.

we can really dive into that deep and get to the bottom of unless we talk to Rachel. Like there had to have been some reason of like why that topic was brought up to the extent that it was. But what did you think of the fact that when he was, so age was like this driving force? And he also said that when cameras were off, he expected it to be different and it wasn't. And he really kind of pointed to the fact that, um, that she seemed different.

Like he didn't know who she was. Like he was seeing a different Rachel. He was seeing a different Rachel. And like just pointing at all of that. What are your thoughts on those comments? I mean, that's interesting too because again, like we've never really seen somebody question the lead in that way. It's always been the reverse where the lead is like,

I expected this person to be different or contestant to be different or come out of this feeling different. And so that's where I'm, again, like, I don't think we're bringing it to the bottom of it. Like, it's very interesting or, like, what actually was said in that overnight behind closed doors, what actually took place. But, like, he's very much upset to the point where, like, Jesse is working overtime this weekend, this week, dealing with everything happening. And, like, the fact that that Zach went to Jesse's room and sought him out. directly. Usually it's like Jesse walking and be like, hi guys, like let's catch up. It's all like something

we didn't expect. And again, like the season has not been anything like what we've seen before, but I, and we have no idea what what Zach said when he pulled Rachel away that's coming. But I'm glad that he did find the time to do that because like

if this is that big of a thing and that big of a deal at this point where it's like you can't accept a rose if you don't, if you think you don't know who this woman is now like find the time to have that conversation yeah one thing that popped into my mind right away to as this was like all unfolding with the conversation between jesse and um Zach was everybody presents anxiety in like different ways and so there is this really big decision coming up and so I can see rachel saying like well are you sure you're ready like with year 25

not because that's what she feels but because like that's what so many other people have projected onto everything that she's like was almost like throwing it out for validation or just confirmation of like this has been something that's been thrown out several times like you're good on that

like I can see her almost like not no I don't want to say project don't put that projecting anxiety but like but just having an anxious stressful response because this hasn't been this has not been an experience

where she has been chosen, where she has been felt like an abundance of love from the guys, you know, where the guys have been confident about her. So I can definitely see her getting to this point, you know, just being like, are you really here? But let me ask you this. And not that that's validated, right? Well, let me ask you this.

If she, if somebody were to just throw that at you once and be like, well, you know, you're only this age, like, are you sure you're ready? Giving you the opportunity to respond, would you have like that shaking of a response coming out of Fantasy Suites? Like he did. Like, he made it seemed like it was like driven home and more extreme than just like, you know, you're younger

than me. Like, are you sure you feel ready for this? Like, are you sure you've been through enough like life experiences and relationships to get to where you need to be? Like, for me, just trying to piece it all together. And I could be so wrong here. Again, like, I would love to have Rachel on or anyone on to talk about this who is part of it. But like, for me, like, somebody questioning that is fine. Like, it's like answer it to the best of your ability and move on. But like, to the point where like he's coming and seeking out Jesse and crying and so upset being like, I don't know who this woman is. I need to have a conversation. I feel like because of all of that and piecing together, it was something more that happened that took place. Yeah. Yeah. I, I don't think

it was just, would be just one, you know, one comment like you said. I think it would just be, I can see you know when you are asking questions like fantasy overall overnights overnights can be really like stressful and just anxious and things like that

but also you have to be able to work past that and have like conversations based on where your relationship is currently at not you know necessarily everything that you've already like spoken about so I have no idea I'm so I'm so intrigued at this point I will, yes, I completely agree. I'm so looking forward to next week to see because, again, we haven't seen anything like this up until this point. So I'm like, I have no idea what the hell is about to happen. Also, like, I have no idea if Gabby and Eric are just like done sailing off into the sunset or like, is she going to keep him around like meet her family and potentially get engaged? Like, where are we at here?

I honestly It is kind of fun watching it as a person who's been on both sides because you kind of can Think you have things figured out and like this time like Zach Zach would have been my pick Yeah Was Zach your pick or was Tina your pick? I think Zach was both of our picks Well I said episodes ago I'm going to say this right now And this is no shade to anyone it's just what I think from what I've witnessed I have always said I think

and Tina are going to the end. I think those are her Rachel's top two. But I think Seth is a better fit. I liked Zach. Yeah. Well, are you saying it in like past tense. Yeah.

He didn't die. I said it past. Okay, I like Zach. I'm saying because he's so upset. Like, how do you come back from that? Yeah. I think. I genuinely don't feel like.

Maybe I'll just say this in the most polite way possible. to me right now and I would love to be proven differently and Michelle I don't want to say anything that like triggers you too. I'm not triggered. Don't worry. Certain things that I have heard come out of Tino's mouth are red flags to me and that's what makes me nervous. I know she loves Tino and I think they have a very strong connection but I'm also a little hesitant to see what that relationship could be from the things that I have heard, and I will leave it at that. I will, one, I'll clarify, the word red flags doesn't trigger me. I just try not to say it because then everybody thinks that I'm like directly speaking about a person and I'm not.

Yeah, no, I totally get it. So that's why I said it. That's why I said it. Can we just like give it a different name? Yeah, whatever, I guess hey. I'm going to give it an orange flag. A cat, honestly, no, it's the same category. It's the same.

It is what it is. It is what it is. But I will say that I don't, you know, I do, what is it, do as I say, not as I do. Yeah, I mean, I see red flags as well. And it's just one of those things where it's like, you either going to choose to listen to it or you don't. And I'm more comfortable with Zach than I am with Tino significantly more comfortable with Zach than I am with Tina. Yes. At this point.

Okay. and again like but does that mean that I won't sit and get to know Tino and give him a you know a chance of absolutely oh no as long as his chance as long as his family gives ritual a chance you know I'll give him a chance well no and that's the thing like any of any of these remaining guys that are left on this season I would love to have on the podcast to pick their brand and like to get to know more because we've gone through filming now we know like sometimes we say the wrong things we don't execute things as well as we liked like you learn as you learn as you're you go through it and as you watch it back. And so I can only, I would hope that all of these men are doing the same thing. So I would love to sit down and have them on here and pick their brains. Everybody's welcome. Yeah. Yeah, it's just always a snippet.

You only see a snippet and people can completely prove you wrong when you, you know, are off, off air, off the cameras, just reflecting back and all of that. And you can kind of look at that. So I think if, you know, I would love to have them on. Let's go. Let's go. Okay. Well, that is it for two episodes of a crazy fantasy sweet week. I cannot wait to see what happens these next two weeks as we near the finale. You know, we've said since the beginning of the season, Michelle, that we like really have no idea what happens. And that is proving the case after every damn episode. So with that, Miss Michelle, give me your. rose and thorn of the week I feel like we haven't done this in a while

wow we have not done this in a minute okay rose and thorn of the week do you feel like you have a lot of thorns I'm really pretty pretty this week Michelle we are real prickly Rose and thorn I mean I know my rose

okay give me your then let's how about you start with it I feel like I'm not trying to be negative I was just thinking there's a lot of like just like thorns that probably popped up there it was a very prickly week dramatic it's a prickly episode we didn't expect it you know you like reach for that flower and you get poked and that's what happened this week that's going to be a new little thing it's a prickly episode it means it's an episode with a lot of drama yes i love that um okay well do you want to start

or do it me too you start because i'm like literally sitting here like thinking about okay like what actually is my rose um okay so my thorn oh i think just overall my thorn is like the vagueness of a lot of these conversations and the fact that like we don't have a lot of context to the why of like why certain things are now happening and maybe that's just the curiosity kitty in me that like i wish i would know more of like what was said to zach why is he feeling this way like you know where was the disconnect between tino and his family and now bringing rachel into it like there's just a lot of unknown so overall I'm just going to say

that my thorn is such a random or sorry my rose is going to be such a random one because like I really can't think of like any like major rose so it's going to be Gabby's comment

when she was playing tennis with Jason and she goes I wish she would spank me on the butt with that racket because I would I feel like I was watching that part with Thomas, and I'm like, I probably would have thought the same thing. So that's going to be my rose because slim pickets for these flowers this week. What about yours?

Okay, rose and thorn. I would say my thorn would definitely be the fact that we are now have gotten through fantasy sweets, but I don't think I've ever seen a season where the guys are so uneasy. where just uncertain overall and that's something that I think we've seen a lot this season and so that would be like fantasy sweets that piece being just uneasiness which kind of goes with what you said and then my rose would be I'm trying to think of like an actually good rose but it could be like how pretty Mexico was that's what I was going to say honestly just my rose would have to be being able to watch um both just gabby and rachel at this point still travel and

like have these fun day-day experiences whether they're cliff jumping whether they're swimming whether they're playing tennis whatever it is just the fact that they they do look more relaxed they it's a hard situation but they look like they're a little bit more relaxed with like having fun and just being able to also enjoy these guys' companies, company during the non-intimate time. Well, I was going to say, you know why they are relaxed. They finally went to the fantasy suite. No, the day that comes first.

It's all the tequila. And to all of our listeners, again, like I would love we, I hope we would love to hear what you have to say about this week and about certain relationships and situations. and situations that happened because, like, I love hearing people's opinions and trying to get a different mindset of, like, what I, you know, usually go to. So, yeah, DM us.

I mean, right on our Instagram in the comments section, whatever you need to do. Yeah, and then... I'm going to definitely put up, but we should throw up a question or something out there just because it's always so interesting learning about everybody's interpretations of, like, what they see,

things that they pick out, that we don't pick out, how they take things. sometimes we have too much background knowledge that throws us off or whatever it is and so yeah I'm excited and nervous we've got two weeks left

two weeks left we're in the home stretch to find out what happens so Michelle thank you for dissecting a lot of famously sweets this week it's always fun to chat with you and an even bigger thank you to our bachelor happy hour listeners

for being here once again with us Don't forget everyone that you can catch all new episodes of The Bachelorette every week on ABC or on Hulu. Make sure to hit us up on social. You can follow us at Bachelor Happy Hour on Instagram. And from there, you'll find everything you need to know to follow us on Twitter and TikTok. And Boucher Happy Hour is available on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen. And you can listen ad free by subscribing to Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts or the Wondery app. All right, Bachelor Happy Hour listeners, until next week.

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