Backlisted - Asterix and the Roman Agent by René Goscinny and Albert Uderzo

Episode Date: December 25, 2025

Merry Christmas! Join Andy and Una, plus authors Louie Stowell and Robert Shearman, for a post-solstice celebration of Asterix and the Roman Agent (1972) by René Goscinny (words) and Albert Uderzo (pictures), first published in France in 1970 as La Zizanie, and freely translated into English by Anthea Bell and Derek Hockridge. Christmas was a festival unknown to the residents of the little Gaulish village, whose adventures took place circa 50 BC. Few childhood Christmases of the 1970s and 80s were complete, however, without one or more Asterix adventures under the tree, so we do our best to mention every single one in this episode. We hear an archive interview with Goscinny and Uderzo themselves, and delve into the history behind the history of one the most successful comic strips in history. In addition, this is probably the most visual episode of Backlisted to date, so it's just as well we filmed it - the video is available on YouTube, and contains all manner of special treats. May we take this opportunity to thank you for your support in 2025, by Toutatis, and wish you all a magic potion-fuelled Christmas and New Year. *For £150 off any Serious Readers HD Light and free UK delivery use the discount code: BACK at seriousreaders.com/backlisted * To purchase any of the books mentioned in this episode please visit our bookshop at uk.bookshop.org/shop/backlisted where all profits help to sustain this podcast and UK independent bookshops. * For information about everything mentioned in this episode visit www.backlisted.fm *If you'd like to support the show and join in with the book chat, listen without adverts, receive the show early and get extra bonus fortnightly episodes and original writing, become a patron at www.patreon.com/backlisted *You can sign up to our free monthly newsletter here  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Are they, and welcome to backlisted, the podcast, which gives new life to old books. The book featured on today's show is La Zizani by Reyes. Benegosone and Albert Uderzo first published in issues 531 to 552 of Pilotto magazine in 1970. It was translated into English by Anthea Bell and Derek Hockridge and published in the UK by the Brockhampton Press in 1972 as Asterix and the Roman agent. The book's first appearance in American English was as part of Asterix Omnibus Volume 5. in a translation by Joe Johnson and that was published in 2021 by paper cuts in the US.

You know that? I did. That's why you're here. Yes, it is why I'm here. I'm Andy Miller, author of the Year of Reading Dangerously and Inventory and Unreliable Guide to My Record Collection. I'm Una McCormack's award-winning scribe and Associate Fellow of Homerton College, Cambridge and through the glass over there,

mustachioed for the occasion, is Nikki Birch, the producer and editor of Backlisted. One, two, three, everybody, Merry Christmas! Una McCormack's, did you say? I did say, Una McCormack's, yeah. Very good. You wrote it, Andy. I know.

That's why I felt it deserved a second outing. You sort of swallowed it. Now, joining us for today's show to discuss Asterix and the Roman agent, German title, Strait um Asterix, i.e. the asterix quarrel, are two guests making their first appearances on Backlisted. Please welcome. Louis Stoll.

Hello. And Robert Sheerman. Hello. Hey. Louis Stoll started her career writing carefully research books about space, ancient Egypt, politics and science, but eventually pivoted to just making stuff up. She's written fiction for ages 8 to 12

with nosy Crow and Walker Books US, but the number one best-selling Loki, a bad God's guide to being good, series is Louis's first project as both author and illustrator, inspired by her research into Norse myths. Louis writes full time in London where she lives with her wife Karen and a creepy puppet that is probably cursed. Louis, the Loki books are wonderful. They are very much loved in our household. How long does it take you to research, write and illustrate them? Gosh, well research I've been doing since I was a child, so 35 years odd. But

I probably each one takes a year to write from the beginning of I've got a plan to I finished all the art and all the edits and you know back and forth and back and forth and how does the feedback work from kids does that feed into what you do or the direction you take them so sometimes kids make requests and sometimes those requests are a simple know um sometimes they they ask for things and i think that's a really good idea so i won't actually tell you the idea because this is boiler now but um a kid asked a question about one of the characters quite early on when i was doing the tour for the second book maybe and i'm going to use that idea because it was a really interesting question um i think it's not the it's you know

not generally specific ideas from kids that i'm likely to use it's more the energy they bring to and a reminder of what they're excited about and that they are actually quite sophisticated while also liking the fart jokes. Absolutely. Who does not like a fart joke? Losers. Loos.

Louie, this is all very well. But what of Robert Sheerman listeners will be thinking, whither he? Backlisted fans may recall that Robert is the author of We All Hear Stories in the Dark, the fabulous and labyrinthine collection of short stories in three volumes that we raved about on the Beowulf episode.

These would have been good for that, wouldn't they? These would have been good for that. These would have been good for that. On the Beowulf episode back in 2020. Well, after some tense negotiations, five years later, he's here. Robert, welcome. Thank you very much. Robert began his career in the theatre.

He was a regular writer for Alan Akebourne at the Stephen Joseph Theatre in Scarborough. His plays have won the Sunday Times Playwriting Award, the World Drama Trust Award, and the Guinness Award for Ingenuity. I thought you'd won the ingenious award for Guinness But that's great Okay

There's an awful lot of press stuff Holding an enormous gas of Guinness I don't drink Did they? Oh, they didn't let you drink any of it No You didn't want to drink any of them I didn't want to

I just don't like Guinness Robert's latest play An adaptation, I can't believe I mean the thing is Robert was just telling us about this before we came on Robert has just come back from Gothenburg

Yeah Where his latest play An Adaptation of Pride and Prejudy in Swedish has just opened at the Stats Theatre. Robert, what is the title of Pride and Prejudice in this new production? Well, I mean, I can't pronounce it because I kept on being told by everybody that I was trying to make it sound too German.

So I'm going to go for it as if it is, because everything for me becomes German. But it was a Stolt-Ucht-Echferdom is the approximation of Pride and Prejudice in Sweden. And is that a truth universally acknowledged? Yeah, I mean, I'm not even. I'm not even sure that those lines are still in there. Because I think one of the great joys about seeing your own work in another language

is you've no idea what they're saying. So you don't worry about it. I mean, I have a moment a show running in Croatia, which is a musical version of one of my plays. I loved it because I have no idea what they're talking about. So I don't sit there agonising over every one of my lines not working. You can just assume it's for the best in this best. Yeah.

Yes, yes. I was delighted by it. And what are the challenges of bringing Jane Austen to the Swedes? Well, trying to make it still seem funny a bit, it's a very strange production. I mean, I think it's very avant-garde, uses a lot of very, very peculiar dance. There are sequences where Darcy's hoist up on stage, you know, from his armpits as a statue. Some of these things I wrote in, some of them I didn't. I got a series of interesting notes all the way through asking me to go much, much further.

to the taking it into total nightmare territory. It was fun, but I don't know how much of the humour is retained at times. Did you, did anyone around you tap the table and attempt to contact the shade of Jane Austen to see if she approved? I knew she wouldn't. That saved some time. So, I mean, I'd constantly just say sorry, Jane. Because I'm pretty sure the only adaptation she would approve of is clueless.

Oh, yeah, I'd have thought. Yeah, yeah. I quite agree. Yes. I mean, if we did that in Sweden, it should be much better. Come on, don't do yourself down. As a regular writer for BBC Radio, Robert has won two Sony Awards. Between them, his short story collections have won the World Fantasy Award,

the Shirley Jackson Award, the Edge Hill Reader's Prize, and four British Fantasy Awards. Wow. He is probably best known, however, for his work on Doctor Who, bringing back the Daleks for the show's revival in 2005. His most recent books are Jubilee, and The Chimes of Midnight adaptations of audio scripts he wrote for the series over 20 years ago.

He has been a writer in residence at Edinburgh Napier University, senior visiting fellow at Lincoln University, and he thinks Rennie Gossini is better than Balzac. He is. And you really like Balzac. I think Balzac's great, but I still prefer René Goshini. I mean, Balzac had this whole human comedy of 150 novels. Gersinini does it in 24 albums.

It's brilliant, the human comedy of Goshini. Well, it's fortunate that we're not here to discuss Balzac for all sorts of reasons. What a Christmas episode that would make. And I haven't read any. Yeah, well, there we are. I am going to say right now, disrobe everyone. There's a certain belief to that.

That's going to make a great sound, isn't it? Dear, oh dear. Well, now let's turn to the book we're discussing today Asterix and the Roman agent or as it is known in Finnish Asterix Yaruddin Kulvaya which translates as

asterix and the sewer of arguments when I received this script from Andy you can imagine how much swearing there was that he got the French and German translations I got and because I've been practicing it Asterix Yaruden Kulvaia. Thank you

Very good. Thank you. The year is 50 BC, Gaul is entirely occupied by the Romans. Well, not entirely, one small village of indomitable Gauls still holds out against the invaders. And life is not easy for the Roman legionaries who garrisoned the fortified camps of Totterum, Aquarium, laudanum and compendium.

It just made you laugh, didn't it? She's biting into it. There's a lot of lovely consonants there. Thank you. What is it in Finnish? In Finnish. Asterix Yarudenkulvaya. Right.

Well, that's how we're all to refer to it from here. I find that very credible pronunciation. So good. Apologies to our Finnish audience. In this, the 15th adventure for Asterix Obelix, Getafix, Dogmatics, Vital Statistics and the other residents of the Little Goldish Village, Julius Caesar results to psychological warfare. A Roman agent and provocateur named tortuous convolvulus

is dispatched to sow jealousy and discord. La Zizani literally means discord. Can the Roman agent made the goals suspect each other of treachery? Has asterix really sold the secret of the magic potion to the enemy? And can asterix obelix and get a fix outwit the weedy but wily convolvulus and get the village back to normal? I wonder if you're aware that in Danish, this book is called Lus in Skint-Pelissen, which means literally the louse in the fur coat.

Oh, that's a good job. Isn't that good? That feels very Nordic. Because Roman agent is, I think, a very weak type. Yeah. Well, also, in both, this is a little bit dark for Christmas Day, but never mind. in both Serbia and Croatia Asterix and the Roman agent is known as

Divide and Rule. Really? That's a bit on the nose. But there we are. So be it. Shall I say it in Finnish again? Yes, please. Asterixiaruddin, Kulvera. Louis in Skuldt, Pelsen. Thank you, Andy. But I will say, actually, that behind us,

we have it in Hesseish. What's Hesich? Hesish is a German German. direct because I collect Asterix books and other languages and there are so many different German variants and there it's Vossé Gaffodl which I believe means what a kerfuffle

I think so Sometimes German and English are very similar Why did we get asterix and the Roman agent It's very based I mean is it a riff on any specific book Or we It's maybe secret agents Yeah but like

But I'm like Is there a Lecarre? I'm like I'm like a Lecari Yeah Yeah, I'd rather have... Tinker-Taylor-a-Sold. Yeah, that would be... Okay, we would say the soldier gold.

Oh, very good. Anyway, Albert Udezzo, illustrations, and René Gossini, words, were born only six months apart, Gossini in 1926 and Udezzo in 1927. But it wasn't until 1953 that they met each other in the Paris office of a Belgian press agency where they were both working independently as author, illustrators of comic.

strips for various newspapers and magazines. Udezzo's mother and father were Italian and only arrived in France in 1922. He was born in the city of Rheim and his family moved to Paris when he was two. At about the same time, Gossini's father, a chemical engineer, was moving his family and the two-year-old Reney to Argentina from where they moved on to spend seven years in the United States. In fact, Gossini did not return to live full time in France until 1951. Two years later, he met Udeuzzo, and the pair began serialising Asterix's adventures in Pilot magazine in 1959.

It was an instant success. After Gossini's sudden death in 1977, however, Uderzo took over writing the strip until 2009 when he retired. In 2013, a new team consisting of Jeanne Ferry and Didier Conrad started working on new Asterix adventures, and as we speak, there is a total of 41 canon asterix books with a few more on top, with the most recent asterix in Lusitania penned by Conrad and his new co-creator Fabcaro being published. It was just published in October 2025. Is it any good, Robert?

Yes. Yeah, it's very funny. In fact, I think that the new writing art team up is excellent. I mean, the Asterix and the White Iris, which was the one from two years ago, because it's every two years in October now, is this wonderful satire about self-help gurus. And again, it has that sharpness and that sort of modern satirical edge that you want from Asterix. And I think it can hopefully just keep going with this team.

I think they're great. Where is Lucitania meant to be? That's Portugal. So what you've now got with Asterisks, and it didn't start for quite a few years, but you have this sense that every asterisk's book has to go between having an adventure which is overseas followed by an adventure which is in the village and the village ones tend to be the more satirical and I think a bit more adult whereas the ones where just go abroad tend to be more about the

flavour of having fun laughing at Portuguese people yeah if in many many many years time you are unable to continue with Loki's adventures. How would you feel about other people continuing your good work? I'd love it. Now. If they can just come over like tomorrow afternoon and just do it for me. But, you know, once I've decided to hang up my hat, I know, do authors have hats, wherever we do.

We tie my pen. Then, yes, I would love it. I'd love a new team. I think it would be great. But it's sort of guaranteed immortality, isn't? The idea of things going on beyond us is kind of the writer's dream. And I feel like, you know, coming from like growing up reading comics, I read a lot of Batman, and it's not like Batman was by the original person

Batman was by. You can pass it along the line to the next person. And Robert, how do the asterix ultras feel about the new writers and illustrators? Well, they're fans, aren't they? I mean, I'm a fan. The problem with fandom is essentially it's a fair. miserable place most of the time. You ended up in the papers the last time you did this.

I know. I know. So if you want to compare Asterix Ultras to Doctor Who Ultras, who's more hardcore? It's probably a Doctor Who Ultras. I think because there's so much more product and there's so much more to be angry about. Asterix, it's that funny thing. I mean, most people get into Asterisks, particularly when they're kids. And when you're 55 like I am, it feels abject, pathetic sadness to be. reading the new asterisk book

and moaning that it feels a bit childish. So there is a part of me which does that. Every two years I get the newsterisk book and say, well, it's not quite as serious as I like to pretend the other ones are. But yeah, I think that there's always, ever since Koshini died, fans got increasingly very angry

about the direction that Udozo took the series. And then Udozo retired and then people got cross at Ferry and Conrad for a while. But I think they're actually, as I say, I think they're rather good. But it's true of all fandoms, isn't it? The fandom, one of the definition of fandom is it doesn't have to be film or TV or books. It's true of sport. It's true of football.

You choose to like a thing so much that you don't like it anymore. Yeah. I think only fans can ever really detect how fragile the thing that they love really is. So that you always frightened that the thing that has just come out is going to destroy everything. And there will be nothing else afterwards. So you go into it with such a feeling of apprehension. But, you know, that this new Doctor Who's serial, that this new casting of the doctor,

but then also this new Asterix direction might now be so awful. And you don't instinctively like it anyway. It'll mean the whole thing is over and then you'll, you know. Louis, are you a fan of Christmas? A fan of Christmas? You're supposed to say, yes, it's not as good as it used to. Okay.

I was going to say, no, I prefer Jesus's later work. I'm Lawrence Easter. Yeah, okay. Well, okay, well, we are gathered here on Christmas Day to talk about asterix, obelix, as you said, all the other characters, beloved around the world, even now in the United States of America, where they are appearing in new American English translations,

where Gettafix is no longer called Getterfix. What is he called? He's panoramics. Oh, like the French? Yes, which I suppose is fine. Yeah. It's not funny, though. But no, actually, I shouldn't say it, but I will.

The American translations aren't particularly funny. They have removed so much of the Anthea Bell translation. Because you could add American jokes in. So I had to do an American translation from one of my books. Not an entire translation, just a few things. And in this book, Loki plays a game called Knock Pooh Run. So it's a bit like Knock and Run. The idea is you knock on the door and they come out.

But there's an added step where you put a poo on the doorstep, so they step in the poo. So it's called Knock Pooh Run in English. And Americans, like, they don't have knock and run. They have ding and dash. So we called it dung and dash. Oh, well, that's rather good. Yeah.

So thank you so much for coming, everybody. We have an appropriately festive bottle of magic potion there that we will be taking swigs from. Swig, we will swig it. And we will then leap up and go, buy two Tartis. But let's start with Louis. We always ask on backlist you.

Can you recall? when you first became aware of Asterix or can you recall which your first Asterix book might have been? So the answer is no. However, I can recall my first sort of deep dive into Asterix, fandom, which was, I think, my eighth birthday, where I made everyone dress up as Asterix characters and I made my mum make me a wild boar cake.

Wow. And I told everyone who to be, but one person didn't get the mailman came as Asterix. So Asterix then had, because I was obviously Asterix, Asterix had a twin. And the reason that this whole thing was set up was I wanted to fight a boy. So I made him be Julius Caesar. So the centrepiece of the party was me fighting Julius Caesar.

And I'd been doing a bit of judo at that time. So I knew how to do it. You've been really preparing to this conference. No one's ever answered that question in quite a psycho, such a psychodramatic way. Thank you. However, one of the first books I really liked of Asterix was Asterix and Cleopatra.

Yes, Asterix and Cleopatra, presumably catching a wave, as Carri-on-Cleo did from the Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor film. Yeah. Would be my guess, right? 65. Yes, that's about right. When it came out, yeah.

But I found the fact that Oblix was responsible for the Sphinx thing, very funny. Right, okay, yeah. Did you have a sense as a child that of the point, I was a big fan of Peanuts. We also, of course, I read Tintin, all these things from the 70s childhood. And I had a very strong sense of the changes in the artwork over the early editions of those series.

Right. So you sort of knew where you were in the development because of, not the text so much, but the illustration style. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't read those. But my kind of peak comic

was 2000 AD and Oink. And Oynk did not in any way change its style over however many years it managed to survive. Because some of those artists are still drawing in exactly the same way now. Okay, good. Good, good, good. Rob, how about you? Do you have a memory of your first?

Well, it's kind of old, really. My dad had this strange job where he had to go and drive around Europe quite a bit visiting supermarkets and hypermarkets to check whether certain groceries were on shelves or not and maybe get some of them to give to rival competitors. He was like a sort of grocery spy my dad and he would sometimes take me with him

and I said at the front I'd pretend I was map reading but I probably wasn't and when we went to one of these hypermarkets like a mammoth or a carafour around France or Germany or Belgium or whatever he dropped me off in the book section well he went around and found the cat food and whatever And I just Those book sections were dominated by Asterix And I hadn't really tried it much in English

I think I'd got one once And wasn't that impressed But I found that I was drawn to I was bored in part But I was drawn to these wonderful picture books And my dad began buying them for me In French And I would read them on our travels

And I couldn't read French I didn't do French school until I was 10 It was about 8 So I began to get them in English And I would compare the translations And I began I very quickly realized that the names In Asterix books are puns

And the puns weren't the same in French That was really interesting There was this one time I'm going to show it to you My dad came home from a trip without me And he brought me this This is the actual book This is The Odyssey of Asterix

Which became Asterix And the Black Gold a couple of years later It was two years before the English translation came out. So I did it myself. I had to, you know, I got a French dictionary and tried to translate it. And it was, I did it very, very bad.

It was baffling for the most part. And it was around that sort of time that I began just writing short stories and trying to translate only so I could translate them. I became really obsessed by the idea of translation. So did you speak French by then? No, not at all. You were just making it up.

Yeah. I mean, I was getting the French dictionaries and also, because my dad had so many of them because he travelled, Swedish dictionaries, Dutch dictionaries and I was translating, I was writing little bits of short stories and then only so I could put them in to other languages. But of course I wasn't, because I didn't know any of the grammar. I was just taking words I could see in the dictionaries. And I would do that so I could have at the back of the book also available and have all the different translations.

Did you play with any of the names? Did you translate any of the Asterix names or did you stick with the French ones or the English? Oh, yeah, I didn't have, I didn't have very much. have any of the wit for that. I didn't always understand the names. I mean, there's a name that I only realised when I reread it a few years ago, what it actually was. There was asterisk in Britain. It's a great name.

So the British chieftain in that has the ending os because of Casavagornos. Yeah, sheftain. And I read it as my kingdom for Arnos. It's actually my kingdom for an os.

from Richard the 3rd. But I didn't realize that at all until I was in my 40s. I mean, why would you until you've read Richard the third? Exactly. I liked the two Roman gods, sender victorious and Appian glorious and Appian Glorious. They're two of my favour. Also, because Appian Gors has the Appian Wray. Exactly.

It's gorgeous. That's very very clear. I didn't understand the joke get a fix until I was in my 20s. I mean, I didn't. You take these things for granted. I remember you saying Robert about a thing I remember you saying about Doctor Who, which is terribly true, is. Non-fans will always say, oh, terrible special effects or look at the shaky scenery.

Yeah. As a fan, you just, you can't see, you're almost blind to it, aren't you? Right? And so I didn't spend my time as a child thinking, why is he called get a fit? What does that mean? No. It's just a name. Until, you know.

But there's quite 60s kind of joke, isn't it? Yes, that's right. Getting a fix of something. I plugged in earfix for that. Did you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get airfix. But exactly the same.

I had no idea what we get them. Airfix. I basically thought some of the names meant something and some of them didn't. And then I realised I just didn't get all the names. Yeah. I mean, I went through Asterix and Lusitania when it came out a couple of months ago. And I found, I didn't get half the names. Because they're all quite modern now.

They're all sort of modern cultural things. TikToks. Yeah. It's all these TikTok people writing Asterix books. And I think I don't know what any of these things are referring to. And that's why it's not as good as it was. Because I'm old-in-jaded, and I wrote a very, very stern letter. Do you want to have a stab at reading us a little of asterix in the Roman agent? Or what's it called?

Sorry. Let me refer to my notes again. La Rue didn't tell you for you. Perfect. Or la Zizani, as you see. As aeney? Yes, I could do. Would you like to read us a little bit?

Do we have an English version of it? We do. I'm reading French. If you reach down... Oh, look, this one right there. The bit that I liked was the bit were asterix and obelix fallout makeup, which I thought was extremely touching. Yeah.

Okay. I'm going to have to explain the artwork here. So what has happened in this instance? It's a raw thing to do to you. Yeah. Sorry, Ron. Happy Christmas, right? Happy Christmas, yeah.

I am seething with Ray. Torturous convolvulus, the Roman agent of the not necessarily well-translated title, has started his machinations by bringing to the most important man in the village a Roman vase and not giving it to the chief, but given it to Asterix. And Torturous Convolvulus has returned to Asteris. and has now has lied about the fact that he's had a dinner with Asterix. So an obelix is inside and Vital Statistics arrives. And the thing to say about all this as well is that as they get more, more jealous,

their speech bubbles get greener and greener. Yes, that's a brilliant touch, yes. So Asterix runs out of his own heart and bumps into the chief, Vital Statistics. Ah, Asterix, so you've been having guests to share. your boar have you. Asterix says, guess no such thing, apart from Oblix. And he, Vidal Statistics, says, that Roman seemed to appreciate your boar all the same. And Asterix says, he didn't touch it.

Come and see, O'Chief. We have two boars and we haven't even been started. And then Vautil statistics, because he's still carrying the vase, says, don't you ever let go of that vase? And they come in to the hut. And Obelix, because he's a greedy pig, has eaten both of the. the balls already. And

Vod's statistics leave saying you're free to choose your own friends Asterix, even in the enemy camp, even Romans. And Asterix shouts

at Obrex. Couldn't you wait before gobbling up those balls, you greedy pig? Obelik says, they were getting cold and when you

went out after your friend, Asterix says he is not my friend. Obelix shouts, you're free to choose your own friends, Asterisk, even in the enemy camp.

Even Romans. And Asterix shouts, I'll be more careful about choosing my friends in future. Oblix then says with great dignity, I get the message, come along dogmatics, we're in the way here. And for the first time Oblix his own speech bubble

turns green and he turns around in the doorway and raises his arm in a Roman but also feels a bit like a Nazi salute which is very relevant and says, Arvay, asterix. That was cold. Wow. That was much more like who's afraid of Virginia Woolf

than I was expecting it to be. And me too. Yeah. But also the spirit of Christmas lunch there. Yeah. We're going to hear a clip now of Gossini and Udezzo. I know if I remember,

it's Udezzo who speaks first. This was an interview done for French TV. They are speaking in French. Louis, when we come back, perhaps you could help us. I can raise you for you. Some of what's being. We always on that list did like to have, if we can, the voice of the author or authors in the show.

So here they are being interviewed in 1968. It's Uderzo first and then Gossini. Gossini and Uderzo. First question, how is made Asterix, because you are the two creator of this personagellian-man-connued now. I'm addressed to the scenarist or to the designerist. He is made, very simply. We have, we've, we've, we've done a story for the journal that we've

we've been to create, and we have thought to do Goulos, very simply. And it's like that he is born. It's the first nigh of the characters, before Obelix, Abra, RACORC, X, S. Oh, he is born the first, yes, but, well, he has been seen, to very pretty by all the other. It has sufficed to a few hours, for that all the base of the history was built. Uderzo, is you have all right tried the good Asterox,

Or is your crayon has left to go to some tentative before to discover this Asterix that we know this

No, the first Asterox was very different to the one of the he was always very great very great,

he resembled a Versing Torex so you see it's not the kind of the genre today, and I

know I was I'd say I was maybe more than than I was Gossini Gassini, you would just

the petite enue the afropti bonhom who was always pretty at the baggare and then

Well, we've got discussed, obviously, and then there's to rectify the and the end up to reduce the moatier. Gossini, you're a senatorist

of an other band of desicen very young, it's Lukie Luk. As you can see, if you're watching this, we've cracked open the magic potion

because it's Christmas, and I feel a sudden rush of strength. So I'm going to go and lie down from that. But when we come back from the break, we will ask Louie

to tell us in 15 seconds or less what Gossini and who does we're talking about there. So we'll see you in a moment. Come back. At Capital One, we're more than just a credit card company. We're people just like you

who believe in the power of yes. Yes to new opportunities. Yes to second chances. Yes to a fresh start. That's why we've helped over four million Canadians get access to a credit card because at Capital One, we say yes, so you don't have to hear another no.

What will you do with your yes? Get the yes you've been waiting for at Capital One.ca.ca slash yes. Terms and conditions apply. Welcome back. Louie. Translate for me, please. Okay, well, I understood it, but I can't remember it. But basically, part of what they were talking about is where did the idea come from? And basically, they wanted something for their periodical. And they wanted to do something about goals.

And then they were talking about, did the idea for the kind of character design come straight away? or was it something that developed and in that process originally Asterix was big for one of them I didn't actually catch which one it was but the other one had always knew that Asterix was small and then talking about the fact that one

I didn't catch which one also did Lucky Luke What struck me was that that was Paris in 1968 there was other stuff happening and there Agostini and Udozo, kind of enjoying a level of popular success, probably no cartoonist or cartoonist team have had before.

No, I imagine not. I mean, they were, I know Udozo was collecting Lamborghinis. Wow. I mean, he was, yeah, I mean, they were doing very, very well. And, of course, they credited their own film studio for a few years. Well, I went to Park Asterix when I was a kid. Oh, we were the best team park in the world, just outside Paris.

and they had live gladiator fights, they had a kind of recreation of the village. Wow. They had a magic carpet ride from Asterix and Magic Carpet. You know, they had all the traditional, there was a pirate ship. We should be there now. I know.

Why did we go to New York? We could have gone there. Yeah. I don't know if it still exists, but in the 80s. I think it does. I just never been. Can I, I want to just, first of I like to ask Robert, something about the, it's all right, don't worry, about the, the, the, why this strip

particularly resonated in France in post-war times and then I, Louis, I, we'll come on to how you think they stand up today. Okay, so let's start with. You mean Roman agent in particular? Well, I mean, certainly around this point, what's going on is that, you know, we're, you know, Asterix begins in 1959. France was occupied, obviously, by the Nazis. There is a strong sense of trying to find both, you know, a real sense of national identity.

But also about trying to sort out your own, how you deal with that idea of what it was like to have been occupied and whether or not that was a collaboration or whatever. Roman agent is very, very specifically, I think, about the idea at this time. It's a generation on, and around the early 1970s, there was an awful lot of people trying to examine and insinuate that maybe there were, that you couldn't trust other people because of their involvement.

Roman agent is, I think, very much about the idea of collaboration with the enemy. I mean, the bit I read out so wonderfully earlier, in part is about the idea, about how, how you can now still be friends with people that you were enemies with before. Most of Asterix, I think, right from the word go. I mean, Udozo and Goshini used to always poo the idea because they wanted it to be fun. But this idea of this one village on the very edge of France holding out against the invaders

is so obviously all about the occupation of France and the war. And the idea that the true spirit of the French would have remained intact. had only they had magic potion. Yeah. Right. Is the kind of, you know, we don't, do we see much of occupied gore outside the village?

Yeah, sometimes. I mean, there's a book called Astrix and the Big Fight, Le Combat de Chef, where they have the first introduction of a gauish chief who is a totally Roman gau. He wants everything to be more Roman. He is so in love with the occupiers that he at the beginning of the book he is having aqueducts built even though they don't

need aqueducts and he wants the water to be diverted so it will actually make more sense he wants everything to be roman and it's about that awkward um sort of relationship you have with the invaders and you've got there's a wonderful book called astricks and the cauldron where um that was me the gauish chief oh it's gorgeous and the caution it's a wonderful satire where the chief whose morals are elastics. That's right. He's basically always dealing with the Romans and

he will claim that he's charging more for the Romans, but actually the Romans buy everything he does anyway, so it's absolutely perfectly fine. So it all becomes this idea of the village trying to avoid the idea that they're

going to lose all of their identity. Well, at the same time there are parodies of what would have been topical phenomena in asterix so for instance the Mansion of the Gods is about the building of tower blocks

or the equivalent thereof which seems a very esoteric subject obelix and co which you very kindly suggested we read it's genius obliques I never read that before that's an incredible it's a satire on capitalism and and and

and market force. Well, it does. It's very contemporary now. Mad Men did in five seasons. I mean, what's exciting about later Asterix books by Gosheny because they become so satirical. It's about the way in which Julia Caesar

decides to wipe out the Gauls, not through force of arms, but by sort of social encroachment. Soft power. So Obelixenco is a very good example of that. But Roman reigning as well. The bantions of the gods.

the idea is very specifically if we build tower blocks right by them and then tourists come to visit they will be softened and that's actually what happens eventually by the end of mansions of the gods the ghouls are just constantly just selling knick-knacks

to all the Roman people who are not Roman legionaries it's that also it's what I was saying earlier on about also that it doesn't take long for them not to want to present the Romans as Nazis the Roman legionaries quite quickly become actually quite sympathetic.

Is there a point where it starts to become a fear of Americanisation? Yeah, and there's also an awful lot of that. Because Ludo in particular had a tremendous fear upon that sort of whole superhero thing. The irony, of course, is that the idea of a magic potion which gives you superhuman strength feels like a superhero story. And they so rarely use it because that would ruin the story.

it's asterix is mostly about avoiding the idea that they have something which is actually quite fantastical and we should say of course as tom holman does and nobody dies and nobody dies ever yeah and indeed also apart from in the very first book there are no the ghouls never have weapons i mean there's a very odd image in asteris the gall where you see a small child and they've and they've got swords and they're because at that point they are you know the idea that the guls are these quite dangerous foes are still there. But actually, but... They just punch people.

The ghouls just punch people. And by the time you reach Obelix and co, which is late Gossini, Obricks has given an entire garrison as a birthday present for him to go and beat up because, of course, they'll always win. There's a full page in Roman agent, isn't there? It's a diagram of the battle that they use. And it's, you know, it's all barked out, arrows and everything,

little legends and all this. And what it amounts to is five separate parties of goals leaping over a wall and punching which are the Romans are with their strongnesses. Louia, what struck me going back to them is although there are these elements that are satirical and they have some fun with the format like you just said there, it's not reforming satire,

is it? No. It's about play. It's about play. What can we draw on to make fun for our readers? I mean, it's observational comedy. It's sort of, you know, Germans eat cereal like this. French people will eat cereal like this, you know, with better jokes. But it's, you know, kind of, it's looking at stereotypes,

but also, I suppose, looking at what empire means. And how do you think that reads now? Well, I don't know that many children that read Asterix now, which is interesting. I mean, basically, because they're very well served for comics at the moment. They are extremely well-saintiffy nature. and, you know, kind of with maybe satire that would sort of speak to them in a different way.

But I'd be really interested to know what a contemporary child would think of obliques and co-say because that is also, it seems to be about late-stage capitalism. It's also about the tulip craze, you know, so it works at both ends. I think the art style is probably, would probably be quite off-putting to quite a lot of children now. Why?

because it maybe just feels old-fashioned but it is not something that you see in contemporary comics it's not like you know a lot of superhero art styles have kind of kept a relative consistency over the years whereas this is a style that is just isn't really out there I think those kind of sort of hyper exaggerated features I mean you get hyper exaggeration but much more in a manga context

and I think kids are much more moving towards a manga style of arts, which this isn't. Gossini and Derso both said they were very influenced by Disney and certainly Gossini having grown up in New York or spent a lot of time in New York and the States in the 40s, you know, but I see exactly what you... Because I actually think something like Tintin, which I never liked very much, but that style, that art style actually probably does speak to children more and I think it's partly because there's a lot of artists now who are influenced by Tintin

in a way that not many artists were influenced by Asterix they were much more likely to be influenced by the story concept rather than the art style. Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, I didn't like Tintin either for some reason. I mean, Tintin was obviously racist. I only realised Asterix would be very racist much later. Yeah.

Tintin was like on the nose racism. Asterisks like, oh wait, no, that's racist. Yeah. But I didn't realize till later. So did those elements, have those elements been tamed a little? in recent. Oh yeah, that's interesting actually. I haven't read the recent one.

So is it less racist? Is it less sexist? I would say not in that edition of Roman agent. There's a sort of panel of the pirate crew. No, sorry, I mean in the new ones that you've been reading, they're less racist. Ish. There was a lot of controversy about Asterisks and the missing scroll,

which was the second one by Ferry and Conrad, which still had thick-lipped New Median that has now been eased out that has been eased out generally I mean in early editions of Asterix in English one of the things that they would do with the pirate

crew is that the black pirate would speak in a patois and in English that became a strange patois as well and that looked very awkward very very quickly and that's been corrected that was corrected even when I was a small child it's difficult because a lot of

Asterix also depends upon the amiable stereotyping of other countries. The intra-Europe stuff I think works. That's fine. No one really minds you making fun of the British. You've got Asterix the Legionary, which is taking all the Europeans that they can

because Asterix joins a legion where you have a Britain and you have a Belgian and you have Goths and you have a hilarious Egyptian who thinks for the whole time that he's actually staying in a hotel while he's actually in a Roman legion. And all of those things are jokes

about those countries, but they never feel as if they're... Though I feel like the Egyptian one wasn't really a joke about Egypt. It was just a joke about someone that speaks a different language and hasn't worked out what's going on. That's right. And also the fact that you could have just delightful fun with all the hierarchies. Yeah, yeah. So everything he says is... I think you're right, Lou.

I think what happens is, first of all, as you say, the intra-Europe gags are also coming out of a post-war settlement mood so kind of we've been fighting but now we're all pals and we can take a little bit of teasing and as soon as they go wider they're in trouble

yeah but I think in terms of like the compass of children now I'm not sure they're very interested in Europe they're much more interested in Japanese culture Korean culture France is just a bit like why you know yeah why France Boff Boff did you say

I said boff Tompil and we haven't yet mentioned as this is asterix in Britain we are in Britain we haven't mentioned the contribution made by

Anthea Bell and Derek Hockhart wonderful I was I got to interview anthea at the Glasgow Book Fair once and it was one of that the genuinely the proudest moments of my life I was she was lovely as well and I was able to I sat in a taxi with her and told her how much what she did meant to me and actually how it also that she'd opened the door for me to want to read things in translation you know

without anthea I wouldn't have also read I mean she also translated things like WG Siebel she she has that distinction yes but I mean she was an amazing Amazing translator, but also I wouldn't have read Mopassant and Zola when I was a teenager without the fact that Asterix in some ways had made me want to read things that hadn't come out of England. And so she kind of transformed my life and she was so amiable about it. I mean, I was able to tell her that because Russell T. Davis, who, you know, was my boss on Doctor Who, like me, was a massive Asterisk fan. And there's an entire Doctor Who story, the fires of Pompey. which is based upon Russell's adoration of Asterix and the Roman Greek.

So that's an Asterix fanfic? I didn't know that. So there's a Roman family in that and it's based upon the Roman family in Asterisks and the Royal Reel. And I was able to tell Anthea that. And she was so thrilled because she could go back and actually impress her grandchildren who weren't that fuss about her writing Asterix

but were Dr. Who fans. So there's a, yeah. Well, I think Asterix was a classical education for so many people. Yeah, yes. It's like when I started, I did Latin for business. school and I was like, oh, no, this is from Asterix. Yeah.

I've got a copy here of Asterix Aput Britannos, which is Asterix in Britain in Latin. Would you like to attempt to read some of it or shall I? I'll go for it. Great. This is, it is Christmas, everybody. So my Latin teacher used to do it in an Italian accent.

Oh, that's even better, though. Yeah. I haven't got my glasses, which is the only thing. is that let's see what what's about nothing okay so we are seeing a map of Britain um paramey britannicum

quod fretum britannium a contentia divitit aliqui perit for providente so this is the pirate speaking Coletrones Pecunia, Diu repose this navem

Emius Itaque Gali nobis Caviende are I assume they're hoping not to meet the goals that's my gloss of that this was my i had to do latin at school it would be much better if it'd have been like that thank you very much i'd tell you what i'd tell you what nicky was complaining that we only ever include foreign languages that i understand the french i didn't understand a word of that nick no thank you louis thank you so much

um but uh the the the did you feel the how were you talking about the illustrative style perhaps seems of its time the texts, the English texts how do you think those So I think that stands up pretty well actually because I think wordplay doesn't really date and also because not much of it was very contemporary it was actually making jokes about the classics

about ancient Rome so it wasn't like the equivalent of Taylor Swift whatever the 1980s equivalent of Taylor Swift would be Kylie why not yeah anyway So I think in that way it wouldn't date It wasn't trying to be contemporary

And I think a lot of the jokes The sort of sheer density of jokes Is really impressive, actually I think, because I rereading these Before I came here There was definitely jokes I noticed that I hadn't noticed before Like the fact that the guy went to the LSE The Latin School of Economics

Which I had not noticed Because I didn't know what the LSE was as a child When my son was little, his favourite joke in all the Asterix books that he read is in Asterix in Britain. And it's a visual joke. And when they've been put in prison and Asterix says, I've had enough of this, we need to get out of here. And just punches his way out. And there's a sight gag of the look on the British man's face. That is brilliant.

I'm just thinking that. That he would look at that for minutes on end laughing. Because it's such a great... He breaks the fourth wall and he looks out... Yeah. Just fattled straight out of the dance. Oh, it's wonderful. And the pacing of the gags is great.

There's a bit of Nastics in the Roman agent, actually, like that, where you've got a lumbering Roman legionary that they call Magnumopus, who is very thick. And he's going to be the one who's dealing with psychological warfare. And Magnumopus just turns and looks out at us before it resumes. And it's brilliantly paced, and it's very, very funny. And the jokes, the British jokes, not just in Asterix in Britain, but the fact that in Asterix and the Legionary,

they're eating this terrible food in the kind of camp and everyone's disgusted except the British person who's like, mm-hmm, m'n-nom, yum, just delicious. Everything's just been boiled together in a pot. I mean, I find it funny that, I mean, we're talking about that whole offensive thing earlier. When Asterix in Britain was written, Goshini wrote an introduction for the very first.

edition apologising to the British saying I hope you understand this is all done in love and you are our friends but of course it also became the most popular aspects of Britain it's like politicians love having like caricatures of themselves being made fun of means you're important if they're not making fun of you it's also a very amiable parody the reason the Romans beat the British basically is that they only decide to fight when we've stopped at 3pm when we have our tea but they hadn't invented

so it's hot water. So it's actually hot water, that's right, which is great. It's enormously funny and we're always terribly polite. It struck me that the relationship between Anthea Bell and Derek Hockridge's translations and the French, while not as free form, are not unlike Eric Thompson's translations of the Magic Roundabout in very much in the same time. Wait, what Landowners is the Magic Roundabout in first? French.

Was it? Did not know that? And furthermore, it's nothing like that Eric Thompson would watch one and then improvise his own dialogue. I do feel with asterisk there is a rewriting element because of the layering of new jokes. Well, Robert, is the... That's a hard question, forgive me.

Is the character of the writing different in translation? Yes. Yes, I really think it is. And I think actually that's part of the joy of it and why I became so obsessed by catching Asterox in different languages and parts is because it's always been a different identity. Anthea told me that one of the great joy she had

doing Asterix was that Goshini knew English very well and he would always encourage her to go further and to be as free as she wanted. Some of her favourite gags you point out, I think her favourite gag that she was very proud of was asterisks the legionary. Again, because Udozo puts in some wonderful art gags and there's a bit where he does a parody

of the painting the wreck of the Medusa by Jericho, which is in the Louvre. And we have a parody of it. And the French is, the pirate then says, Je suis Medeuse, which is a joke because, you know, I am, whatever. And that won't try. translate and so she knew she had to do a completely different joke and the joke in

Essex of the Legionary is something I can't quite remember it now annoyingly but it's something but but we've been sunk by Jericho or something so it comes this thing where she she used to say that they couldn't always get all the jokes right but but she and Derek Hockridge she said had this plan that there'd be the same number of jokes a page so if they couldn't get a joke to work, they would find a new joke somewhere else and put that in anyway. So there was always the same sort of density of jokes. Because it's a good translation of a joke if the joke is funny. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

And because it's so punny. And Goshenius' humour is so punny. Which is odd because other things he did aren't. Also French is not actually the easiest language to pun in. Because I would say it's easier to pun in English because we have more words. like they're just like a larger number of things and yet they love wordplay and indeed look at you know

Gansberg's songwriting is much more often about the sound of the word and the jokes and it is about the content but Gossini would take because Gossini was writing while doing asterix he was writing he was writing with Morris he was doing the Western series

Lucky Luke he was doing is no good with Tabari. Tabari hated puns. So for all of the Is No Good books, of which I've got an example to hold up later, there were no puns at all. So Goshini would tailor his style to fit the artist. He was aware that the title

was Isno Good. Oh yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, you do. That was the limit. I don't think Tabari ever noticed. Is this supposed to be funny? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. We were talking yesterday about

similar to the idea that one's you know one's roots to culture was wherever one could find it so television or whatever or books but you were saying about the

what were you saying about the Jericho painting? Oh yes that I had observed that this appeared at versions that appear in a couple of Asterix books don't they and then the next time I encountered it was as the cover of the

Pogues album rum sodomy in the latch. Oh, wow. And so that meant that no longer was it an asterix joke. It was now, it was clearly an intertextual joke. But there was some kind of backgrounds that I knew nothing about. And this being 1988 and St. Helens, I had no way of clicking on that hyperlink to discover what it was until probably I was in the Louvre. Oh, I see.

Oh, Jericho. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, the click, click, click, click. This is what I always think about Shakespeare's comedies. because they're not funny well not to me anyway and I was like we're probably missing all these layers of references

that would have been absolutely kind of obvious to an audience in Elizabethan England but for me I'm just like I just don't get it but it's probably like layers of satire I mean obviously I get the rude jokes

but the rest of it but it also means that now that when you do a Shakespeare comedy in the national it's like a form of translation for what you're saying is okay this scene would have been funny in 1601

but what we're going to do is put other gags in so it has the same density and it becomes and it becomes I think very much the same as doing an asterisk where you're saying you are translating things

that simply won't work if you just do them cold I mean arguably I think humour is the thing that most suffers by being decontextualised or through the passage of time so for instance

that's what you were saying about the stereotype jokes. This is what I think, I imagine, no, I'm sure they seem far more benign in context. In other words, I don't think they would make those jokes now because they would be aware that that's not okay. I think even the European jokes is a difference making them in the 50s and 60s emerge into the common market and, dare I say it, post-Brexit, they don't, you know, you wonder how well they play. And also, I think countries have changed, you know,

so that's, you know, if you're making a joke about a Brit from the 1950s or a Brit now, a Brit now has a flare up there, you know. Yeah. Rather than a cup of tea, you know what I mean? I was like, what language can I use on this podcast? Yes, they do. Up their bum. It is the odd thing, though, I think.

Ashtrix and the burning stick. It's your thing, though, because as I say, I think there are two different types of asterix book now. You have the overseas ones, and you have the ones in the village. And the overseas ones are the ones are the ones which seem dated. And I think are the ones which aren't as strong anyway, generally speaking, but the ones in the village, which are about the much more,

which are much more dramatic and much more satirical and much more about... About human nature. Yeah. I think that stuff about bureaucracy is always brilliant. Yeah. And I think that's very first. French, you know, they do love their bureaucracy and, you know, but the one that wasn't actually a proper Asterix book, it was a film and they did a book of the film.

Oh, 12 tasks, yeah. And that one had the best satire and bureaucracy I've ever seen where you have to go to get the blue form. And in order to get the blue form, you have to get the yellow form. But to get the yellow form, you need the green form. To get the green form, you need the blue form. Yeah. And that's the place that drives you mad.

Yeah. And I've been in that meeting, you know. I've worked at that universe. Yeah. I've tried to get paid by that university. And yet, as you said earlier, some things have dated. But if you gave Oblix and Co. To someone who's lived through the last 10 years or 30 years or five years or however long,

it's the AI bubble, you know, like many years are the AI bubble or their NFTs or their whatever the other previous thing before NFTs were. I hope it's a bubble. I hope it's a bubble. So, Robert, you have collected these from around the world. Yes. The thing which I find funny is that when I got the email to appear on this, I was at that point in a bookshop in Reykjavik looking for a copy of Asteris and the Normans in Icelandic.

I didn't go there for it. Did they have it? Oh, yeah. Cost a fortune. Well, everything does in Iceland. That's right. So I was in Helsinki. while back. And I found a copy of Asterix and Sun. Which is?

Asterix. Well, it's two things. Asterix in Poika is Finnish. Okay. I found it in the same bookshop Asterixim boikani muckle. And I went to the front of the shop and I said, I'd like both of these, I said, but... What language is that? But what is this? He said, well, it's Finnish. And I said, okay, so what's that?

And he said, it's Finnish. And he said, well, how can they both be finished? He said, I don't know. So he sort of shrugged in a very, very Finnish way. And so I bought them both. And I still don't really know what the difference is. And in some ways, I never want to find out. If I look inside it says, El Sengi.

Could there be different dialects of Finnish? I suppose. And that's the thing which I find really great as an Asterix collector. I mean, I've had it behind us. It's the Vossessese Kofoodle. There are 30. different German translations of all these different

Asterox books because they have them I've got some in a Kulsch which is the the dialect in Kologne and they do their own Asterix books and they have the ones

in Munchen which is from Munich so you've got to buy those as well Do the books in Munchen make jokes about people in Kohln that's what I think I mean you're making the presumption

I've actually tried to read it I mean I think the days of that are past I mean I've got I've got Russian and Polish, and there's a Polish asterix and the Roman agent up there as well. And I can't resist it. I don't fixate upon the asterisk's collection

almost all the time. But if I'm agrored, I suddenly think, oh, hang on. I must get some foreign asterisk. But also, though, come on, you're a fan. I am a big fan. We're all fans and collectors here. The sweet agony of knowing

there are 30 German translation. Oh, I know. to try and get hold of. I was very upset. And also that these Finnish ones have got different spines, which I imagine. I know. But I was very upset. I was in Orgasund in Norway.

I was on a cruise, which is why I was in Rekivik. And we had one day in a Norwegian town. And I led my poor wife around the town saying, but while we're here, we might find a bookshop or two. And she's like, God's sake. Before we wrap up, I asked you, Robert, to if there was any Christmas asterisk story or any scene

set, because I'm not going to ask you to read it again, don't worry. Oh, good. I mean, the problem with Christmas, I mean, because it's set in 50 pieces. So it's 50 years before Christmas comes along. But there is an asterisk short story. Astrox in the cast act is a sort of collection of short pieces. I really enjoyed... I've never read asterisks in the class act.

No, I really enjoyed dipping into it. It's quite sweet. And it's sort of oogie things by Goshini and Udazzo for the magazine. And there's a thing that they did for Christmas, which is about obelix trying to kiss people under the mistletoe. Oh, yeah, I did read that. So I didn't really register that having Christmas. No, I think that that's because they actually could get to Christmas.

It was a sort of callback to him being in love with Panacea as well. Yeah, which is quite sweet. And mistletoe is quite astrously. So there is a Christmas. So there is a Christmas. There is a kind of winter outstrict story. That's the first thing. It's in Asterix and the Class Act.

I tell you what I liked, as a clever ass, I liked the Gossini and Udozo strip in which they appeared about their adventures at the end in Aschrist and the Class Act. I thought that was wonderful. I like the one where they all start drawing it in different styles as well. Yes.

We're asterisks on Mars. That's great fun. Yes. That was good. Well, listen, we need to wrap up because we have our Christmas lunch. And sadly, that's where we must leave things. Many thanks to Robert and Louie.

for joining us for this midwinter celebration of all things asterix. And to our producer, Nicky Birch, for letting us carry her around the studio on a shield. We're going to stay here and feast on a banquet of roastball with all the trimmings, a few flaggons of ale, and perhaps even a Christmas song or two, from our bard, Mariah Kerricks. Very good. And if you want show notes with clips,

links and suggestions for further reading for this episode and the previous 254. Lord. I know. Please visit our website at backlisted.com. If you want to buy the books discussed on this or any of our other shows,

visit our shop at bookshop.org and choose backlisted as your bookshop. And a huge thank you to our patrons. We couldn't do this without you. Here, here. I'd just like to add that we are really grateful for your support this year, particularly this year, and the year before that, and the eight years before that. But especially in 2025, thanks for sticking with us this

year. I look, I'm looking right at you. I don't do sincerity very well, but look, I'm doing it right now. Thank you so much. But before we go, Louie, is there anything you'd like to add about Goscini, Oudazzo, or Asterix, that we didn't get to in the show? You were asking me earlier about what was, you know, how does it last, how does it kind of work today? And I was thinking how, what a lovely story about friendship is. I'm going to be sincere now. It's actually very touching because, you know, they fight, they make up. It's, you know, it's a relationship between these two men.

And that's a beautiful thing. That's nice. Isn't that nice? It's Christmas. Oh, that's nice. Well, Robert. Yes. Do you have anything to add about Bran Irosenes, Ilya,

fire in the rosy camp, as this book is called in Norway. Is that what it's called in Norway? Fire in the rosy camp? I just wanted to say quickly, I mean, that it's hard when you realize that there's something in your life which has given you just so much unadulterated joy. But I did want to quickly tell people, just in, for example, my wife will never read asterisk. She doesn't want to read comic books.

He has always said no. But I still maintain that the best thing that Goshini did, the wittiest thing Goshini did, is actually prose. So I'm going to just quickly hold this up. He wrote a series of books about this kid called Nicholas, and illustrated by a chap called Sompay. And it's like Adrian Moll at the time. They're written from the point of view of this little schoolboy

who just reacts to the adult world around him and they have a vaguely satirical edge to them. They're just a bit like asterix and as much as all of his school friends scrap all the time but in a very, very loving way. And they are heartbreakingly gorgeous short stories. And I would recommend if you just think, if you're unconvinced by the comic book,

try Nicholas and the gang and the various books which come out of those. They are gorgeous. Do you like peanuts? then you will love the Nicholas book. Yes, they are great, aren't they? Yeah, they're great, great, great. Well, listen, thanks very much, everyone.

This has been fun that we can get into those mint pies now. All right, Una, is there anything you would like to add before we all say Merry Christmas? Oh, just Merry Christmas. Just Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas, everybody. Arvee. Bye, Arbe.

No, Arre, the other. What's the other? Valde. Valde. Val. ...andahs... ...andahs... ...and...

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