Backstage at the Vinyl Cafe - Bonus Episode: Meet Greg!

Episode Date: July 4, 2025

For this summer bonus episode, my conversation with long-time Vinyl Cafe and Backstage at the Vinyl Cafe recording engineer, Greg DeClute. Greg has some great stories to share about working with Stuart McLean for so many years. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Happy travels start with the experts at Sell Off Vacations. Visit selloffvacations.com and start planning your next adventure. Hello, I'm Jess Milton, and this is a bonus episode of Backstage at the Vinyl Cafe. ["Backstage at the Vinyl Cafe"] Cafe. Welcome and welcome to this special bonus episode. Today I'm joined in studio by someone you hear me mention every single week on this podcast. With someone who, if you listen to the radio show, you will have heard

his name for, gosh, for decades now. I am joined in studio by Greg DeCloote. Greg, welcome to the show. Thank you. I'm happy to be here. It really is. You guys can't see us smiling, but normally where I sit, I can see Greg through the glass in the control room and it feels really nice to have him sitting in the room with me.

So thanks so much for being here. I'm gonna start with a question, which I just know you must have been asked dozens of times over the year, hundreds of times maybe, which is what was it like for you to work with Stuart? What was he really like? It's funny, I have been asked that question. It's the question I get asked most often, probably the question you get asked most often. It's the question I get asked most often, probably the question you get asked most often. In a way, it's kind of, I think, the question that you and I and Louise are trying to answer with this podcast.

Yeah, that's true. And it's tough to answer that question because it's hard to really impart the essence of a person to another person who doesn't know that person. But I usually tell people that he, the way he was on the show is very much like who he was. Like he wasn't a different person entirely. He was that generous, funny, warm person, but it was like he was more of that when he was in person than he was on the show. He just, I always tell people I've never met in my life anybody else like him. He was just so generous, he was so smart, so funny, and just so very caring about everybody, no matter who you were, and very inclusive. And one thing that always astonishes me about, not so much about his personality, although

I'm going to talk about his personality a little bit, but just how gifted he was. Because I've worked with a lot of performers over my time at the CBC. Hold on, we should stop there for a second. You have. Yeah. Because you're a recording engineer. We stop there for a second. You have. Yeah. Because you're a recording engineer. We're going to get back to that story. Right.

But you're a recording engineer, which means, and you, which we should explain what that means probably, right? Yeah. So basically what it is, is I'm like the technical person. My job in its simplest form is to use recording technology to make a show sound as good as it possibly can. I'm basically trying to recreate an event for people who weren't at that event. So if it was a concert or if it was a comedy show or whatever it was, if you were there and you got to experience it,

but if I recorded it properly, then people who weren't there can also experience it. And what I want is for them to get as close to the same experience as they could, obviously without the visual portion, as if they were actually there. So I always try and put the listener in the audience to have that same experience. And you really, like with our show, you did such a good job of that because we, you know, you did incredible things with micing our audience. Like you would have always at least four microphones for the audience and you were always trying to pick up the waves of laughter and applause to get the rolling bigness of a room. But also my favorite, because you've worked with a lot of performers, but I've worked with a lot of recording engineers. And then there's so many things I love about

working with you, which I'm sure we'll talk about. But like from a technical standpoint, one of the things I loved about working with you is how much you appreciated the audience and how much you understood they were an integral part of the tapestry of our show. And so you would want to capture the rolling, the bigness of their laughter and their applause, but also individual people, which I thought was so cool about how you liked the audience. Yeah. There's like, there is that sort of group event of like, you want the power of hundreds of people all laughing or

applauding at the same time but then it's also an individual event at the same time and so you do want to get those the details of individuals so it does it just doesn't sound like a generic wash of laughter it makes it sound more real and when you get those individual reactions like I always like when I'm doing a comedy show and you hear that one person in the audience who's like who laughs when no one else does. Or they have a unique laugh. Sometimes that can be distracting. But sometimes you get like one person laugh and you want to be able to get that and be able to hear it.

Because that's all part of the event too. Your job is to capture the texture of the room, the sound, make the audience at home feel like they were there. But that can be comedy, that can be a Sherlock Rs, like a performance based with it. But it can also just, it can be music in studio with an audience without an audience.

Yeah, exactly. Putting the mic. So for people listening who don't know what that means, it means there's a guitar player playing the guitar and singing. Greg will put a microphone on the guitar and work with the sound, capture the sound that that musician's getting from their guitar and make sure that the sound sounds the way it should and shape it and then mix that music after. Okay, so that's recording engineer. You were saying I have worked with a lot of performers.

So you've worked with comedians and you've worked with- Yeah, comedians, musicians, actors. I've worked with probably thousands of performers of all levels. For sure, even known us for 40 years. Yeah. And doing it at the CBC gives you the opportunity to work with some of the best people in their craft.

But there are very few people who had the gifts that Stuart had. And I don't really remember when I came to this thought, but I've worked with a lot of people who are very good writers, really brilliant writers. And I've worked with a lot of people who are very brilliant performers. But I don't know, there's very few other people that I've seen who are as good a writer and as good a performer as him. Usually you don't get two. Most people get one, but he had two.

He was so good at both of those things, and he loved them both so much, which was so obvious. But yeah, he was just insanely gifted, and which then means, unfortunately, there are people who are insanely gifted who make it known that they're insanely gifted. And he was not that at all. I think he could have been, like, he would have, people would have given him the space to but he didn't have not at all not at all No, like no ego. No, none. No and the way one of my favorite things about him was how open he was to feedback Yeah, like not only was he open to feedback. He he courted it. Yeah, he would always be asking like yeah What did you like? What did you not like and if you were like, no, no, that was okay

He would put like he wanted to dig deeper on that yeah always and I found that when I first started working with them although the show wasn't as big as it became because I worked in the early days before just yeah I found it kind of intimidating because you have somebody like that and they're like asking me what I think and if somebody wants to ask me what I think about how we should approach the recording, fine I can talk about that all day. But he would ask me like you know what do you think about this line or this story? Do you think that song after this work? Yeah is that working or what do you think of the show?

Is there anything we should change? And so at first I thought, this is not for me to tell him how to do his show. He knows, but what he wanted is like the everyman kind of thing, right? He wanted to know what people liked and I, after a while, I got to the point where I was very honored that he would even ask me and so I would tell him and sometimes, like I remember the one time I saw, we did a show and I was like, I don't even know what that was. Alma? Yeah.

And of course, we got to tell people what it was. Of course, that's the show. We're backstage after we did the first one. He's like, what did you think of the show? Because it was a crazy show. Let's take a second and describe what it was it was a it was very different it was um it I don't take fault like it was my idea and it wasn't out there idea so we had it was the 20th anniversary of the Vinyl

Cafe and I wanted to do something different. And we did. It was bizarre. How would you describe it? Well, it was very much like it had aspects of a musical to it. It's like I've always wanted to make a musical, finally, and it was like a musical. It had a through line, but it wasn't the usual format of storytelling and music and comedy and it was basically, if I remember this correctly, that you had taken stories,

previous stories and what was the name of the band? Yeah, the Peptides, who were great. Yeah, we basically, we took stories, I don't remember how many I did. It was like seven or eight. Yeah, we basically, we took stories. I don't remember how many I did. It was like seven or eight. Oh, at least, yeah, like maybe 10, let's call it 10, stories and distilled them down into bite-sized pieces. So Stuart would tell a version of the story

in sort of two and a half to eight minutes. And the band wrote a song for every story. For every single story, and they were playing the music. It was almost the entire thing was orchestrated. Yeah. It was like poetry or storytelling with music in the background. And it would go back and forth between vocals and storytelling. And it was no, I don't remember that there was a Dave and Morley story. There was a guy at one point riding a bicycle on the stage. Like it was bonkers. It was probably like I'm gonna say something I don't I've never thought of it like this. It was probably the most creative thing I've ever created

And I didn't I really like the creation of it was the band was they were amazing. They were they were they are amazing they are Yeah, Claude from the peptides is amazing. They are, yeah, Claude from the Peptides is just this incredibly creative person and what they were able to do. But it was, yeah, it was a really, like, really, really, really different. So there you are. It was after the show. And Stuart and I worked quite hard on it, like, days of rehearsal. I'd seen it for the first time and I did not get it. Yeah, you did not like it. I was just like, what was that? Yeah, I was like that.

And I knew because we had had discussions about you were working with the band to change some vocal arrangements and like you were really in there up to your elbows. And so I knew everybody really had done a lot of work and had a lot at stake. And I was like, I just didn't get it. I didn't like it. And so of course I get out of the truck, which we'll have to talk about the truck later. And I'm in the back hallway backstage. The truck is the recording. There is a truck, a mobile, it's cool. It's like a recording

studio on wheels that we used to travel around. It's a five-ton truck with a recording studio. Yeah, it looked like the kind of truck that would be delivering milk to a Depp-Ener or a 7-Eleven, except for in the back of it was Greg. A recording studio. Anyway, so you got out of the truck, you're walking out of the truck, there's Stuart looking expectantly. And I'm just like, what was that?

And I was like, I really didn't like it. No, I remember. That was awful. And of course, he's like, hey, what did you think? And I was like, and he didn't, like, he didn't ask me that every show, like, you know, occasionally. And of course, that's the one he asks me. And I remember saying to him, it's not like any vinyl cafe show I've ever seen. That was really the only thing I could say because I didn't, like, you know, sometimes you try and think of something positive.

I couldn't think of something that I didn't like. Yeah, you hated it. By the way, you weren't alone. Like, a lot of people felt that way about it. But I will now say, and yeah, I know you know what I'm going to say. That is now by far my favorite episode that I ever recorded. I still think about that episode a lot. Because it was different. The music was haunting.

Yeah, they're really the peptides. I'll give them a little shout out. The house next door, the music for the house next door was insanely good. So that, they did, that's a perfect example. I'm glad you brought that one up. So that's a story, the house next door, about, we used to call it Morley's Bath. It's the one where Morley goes next door to clean the house. And new neighbors come, they buy a house on the same street as David Morley,

and they, after buying it, they're sort of a young, I will admit this with trepidation and reluctance, but they're loosely based on me and my husband. And I say that because they're really annoying. And they even have Jay and my, Josh is my husband's name, so Jess and Josh, and they are Joanna, I don't remember their names, I don't know if you know, but they're both Jay and Jay, and they're super, and they have a J and my, Josh is my husband's name, so Jess and Josh, and they are Joanna, I don't remember their names, I don't know if you know, but they're both J and J, and they're super, and they have a Portuguese water dog, and I was like, yeah, I see what you're doing,

and you think I'm really annoying, Stuart. I would appreciate it. Yeah, exactly. So this young couple comes into the neighborhood, and they buy a home, and they promptly gut it, and renovate it, and change it, and that's really hard for the other people in the neighborhood because they feel like maybe their home's not good enough

if these people come in and have to change everything. And so the people, you know, David Morley want to not like them. And they're put off by the actions they're taking. But, you know, Jo, the woman, she just perseveres. She has, I guess that's a, maybe she's not as annoying as I think, she certainly has a lot of annoying features, but she has, she has unrelentless optimism

and unrelentless perseverance, and she just keeps going. And she comes to Marley and says, hey, you know, I'm going away. Would you look after, you know, my fish, I think, I don't know. I can't remember what the premise is. But it says, like, come to the house. We'll give you keys while we're gone on this trip in Italy. And I want you to look after, you know, feed the fish.

And Morley says, sure. So she goes into their house, and it's like a work of art. It's gorgeous. And she's kind of shocked by how much she's enjoying it because of course she's kind of trash-talking them a bit and like you know looking down on them for making me but she enjoys it and she she starts spending more and more time there because of course her house is like you know three-week-old newspapers. It makes her look at her own house differently. Yeah and the choices she's

made and yeah and she's spending more and more time, and eventually, Dave comes over too. Anyhow, that story was fine. It was like, but to be honest, was never one of my favorites. I didn't dislike the story, but it was, there are some that have a lot of layers of meaning for me, or a lot of texture. There are some that are very funny.

That was a good story. It said some things that I liked. There were some funny moments in it, but it wasn't one of those knock them out of the park stories that I remember. There were some funny moments in it, but it wasn't one of those knock-em-out-of-the-park stories that, like, I remember really well, and clearly by my bad summary of the last two months. And so, you know, it's just kind of a nothing story. But the peptides were drawn to it. And they wrote a song about it. And both Stuart and I were like, why don they want to write about this story? And they came back with this song called The House Next Door. And they, like, Stuart wrote this story, and even he didn't really see it the way they saw it. They saw something

else entirely. They saw that it is a story about a woman, a mother, a wife, a woman who was undervalued and underappreciated and that what she was getting by going to the house next door was a moment of peace and a place that was hers and hers alone. And they wrote this incredibly beautiful song that the women in that band sang in this incredible harmony and it completely that's now one of my favorite stories they did that for me for that story and so think about that show and that happening 10 times yeah yeah it's a crazy good show yeah we should play that. We'll see if we get the rights from the,

I'm gonna call up Claude and say like, can we play this? Because it was, that might be the show. I'm so glad you ended up liking it because that might, that's the show I'm the most proud of. That episode of The Vinyl Cafe is the episode of the show that I'm most proud of. And it's probably the least liked episode.

So when it aired, it was just very divisive, you know? It was, some people loved it and were mesmerized by it and just were like, wow, how did you do that? And we got a lot of, I'm not gonna say hate now because vinyl cafe listeners are not like that, but yeah, a lot of people really didn't like it. And I'm really glad that that happened for our 20th anniversary when I had been producing the show for 10

years because some of the best advice I ever got was in the early, early days of the Vinyl Cafe. I remember, I don't remember what the issue was, honestly, but we took a risk. You know, we took some sort of risk and we got some hate mail. And I got called into the office of the person who was running CBC at the time. And I was like, oh boy, like this is, you know, I was 26 years old or something. I was going to be and they're like, yeah, I heard about this.

And I'm like, oh, here it comes. And they're and they said, no, it wasn't the head of CBC. It was David Amor. And David Amor said, yeah, it wasn't the head of CBC. It was David Amor. And David Amor said, yeah, don't worry about that. You got to be getting some hate mail. And I'm like, what? Why? And he said, because if you're doing,

if all you're getting is love, you're not taking any chances. And also, that kind of mail shows you how deeply your audience cares about what you're doing. And I, like, as a producer, that's a bit of advice. I always, like, that runs through my head constantly. You've got to be doing stuff that people, you've got to be pushing your audience a little, but you also have to, you want an audience that cares enough about what you're doing that they'll take

the time to write in and let you know when you've disappointed them? And if you're going to work at the CBC, you've got to get used to taking hate mail. Yeah, so anyway, I can't remember how we got into that, the performance. Because he was asking me. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So he asks your advice. Yeah, he's open to feedback. That's all I could think of was to be like, it's not like any show.

And he was like, but you liked it though, right? And I was like, because I knew I couldn't lie to him because I, because A, that just it doesn't feel right. And I knew he would know. And and it's just, you know, I respected him enough that if he was going to ask me, I was going to tell him. And he like he wanted the truth. Yeah. And so I was like, I don't know.

But I was lucky enough that I wasn't a listener because if I was a listener and had heard it once, I would have been like, that was the worst Vilem Cafe episode I ever heard. Because as you know about me, a lot of times, more times than I would like to admit, my initial reaction is to be like to admit, my initial reaction is to be like, oh, I'm not so sure about that. And then over time, I'm like, oh, I really

love this. But because I wasn't a listener, I got to slash had to listen to that episode. Yeah, you probably were not. I know you were not. Because we recorded it, then I had to mix it. Well, okay, so now we're getting into the weeds here. Like, this is, let's talk about how that worked. Right. So a show like that, let's back up. So this is how it would go back in those days.

Well, there's two ways it would go with you and I back in those days. Like, not how we record the podcast, but back when the show was on the radio. It would start with Stuart and I and Don Jones, our promoter, would decide where we're going to do shows, right? And we would be like, okay, we're doing these shows. And I'd say, okay, I'm going to record here in Almonte. And you know, we'd start building the show. But before, like you were kind of my next call. Like I would identify where we're going to record. And if that was within driving

distance of Toronto, right? That's how we'd kind of, if it was within driving distance of Toronto, that's how we'd kind of, if it was within driving distance. If it was in Ontario. If it was in Ontario, yeah, or even Quebec. Yeah, parts of Quebec. I would call Greg next and I'd be like, all right, Almont, we're gonna be there, September 10th and 11th, are you free?

In fact, I'd do that before I booked the venue or before Jonesy booked the venue. I'd be like, Greg can't do September 10 and 11, but he can do September 21, 22, so I'd go back to Jonesy. And can we book the mobile? And can we book the mobile? So we need this truck. So we had this, you know, the cube van, the cube van full of recording gear. And so we'd get the theater, we'd get the truck, we'd get Greg and someone else, Kyle or Frank.

Frank, most of the time. Yeah, Frank. Yeah, of course, Frank. And then Greg and Frank would get into this mobile recording studio on wheels. Yeah. And they would drive it. Yeah. Like how much, we're talking hundreds of thousands

of dollars worth of. Yeah, it's a five ton truck. Yeah, let's describe it. Probably, it's like it's one of those trucks you have to have a D license because it's got five-ton truck. Yeah, let's describe it. Probably, it's like it's one of those trucks, you have to have a D license, because it's got air brakes and stuff, like it's a big truck. And it probably had,

I would say it had, it probably cost probably a million and a half dollars. Yeah, I was just gonna say over a million. To build, with all the gear and the build and the truck and and And so and Frank and I Frank drove the truck. I didn't have a D license. I couldn't drive the truck and Frank Frank Finistore was he basically designed the truck. So he knew how it all worked. I cool guy He's a great guy

So he built it and designed and so he knew how it all worked. And he was there so that when I did something that caused smoke to come out of something, he would fix it. Absolutely happened. Yeah, he would fix it. So if anything caught on fire, Frank was out. We call Frank. And so.

So you guys would drive, and we'd get to the theater. And I'd have the band there. And you would set up all the microphones and to the theater. And I have the band there and you would set up all the microphones and run the cables and everything would go back to the truck. Yeah, we'd park the truck outside the building obviously, as close as we could, sometimes on the street in front, sometimes around back, sometimes in the side. But we tried to have a shorter cable run as possible because we had all the stuff that we had on stage, we had this big long snake that ran into the side of the truck.

Snake is a big, thick cable with like a whole bunch of cables. Yeah. And so we'd want to short as run as possible because that cable was big and heavy. And everything would come back to the truck where there's a big console. And at the venue, I was mostly concerned with recording. At first, I was mixing it live and recording.

Like we wouldn't mix it afterwards. And mixing is, if you've got someone playing drums and someone playing guitar and someone playing bass and someone singing, each of those things are recorded separately. Drums, actually, is several. Sometimes you might have 16, 18, 20 mics on a drum kit. On a drum kit, yeah. And on a guitar, you'll have, you know, if it plugs in, that's called a direct input, a DI, and so that's one line. And then you'll probably put a mic on it too. And obviously the people singing have microphones. And so all those tracks come into the computer, and mixing it is how they all fit together.

So funny you said computer. In the early days, it was a tape machine. That was one of Frank's superpowers, was the tapes were only about an hour long. And the shows would often be like 90 minutes or whatever. And so we'd have to build in a moment so that Frank could take the tape off while something was happening on the stage that we didn't really care about recording.

So he could take the tape off and put on the new tape and line it up really quickly and get the tape running again. And then the show could go. Because if that happened in the middle of something important, we would miss it. You'd miss that point. Yeah. I still have from like, I think my first show, by the time I was producing, it was all digital, but like in Amherst days too.

So in those early days we had tape. So back then you used to mix it live so the music was happening and you'd be making decisions more vocal let's roll off the bottom end of that yeah you'd have like you know between 30 and safety inputs depending on how big the show was and yeah you'd have to you're basically balance balancing them all so that everything is in its right perspective so that everything sounds as if you were sitting in the audience. Yeah.

Yeah, and it's a lot to do on a live show that you've never seen before, and you have a kind of a script, but you can't be looking at the script and moving 50 faders at the same time and trying to, you know, get this thing in real time. Because if something happens and someone steps up to a mic and you have missed that, and you don't have the mic open, then you don't get it. So it was tough. And you would never get, it was very difficult to get a show perfect.

Even if you did have all the mics open at the right time, sometimes the balance wasn't exactly what you wanted, but that's the way it was. But I think also, like, you correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you and I were both, we're pretty picky. So I think once we found each other, we developed our own process. Yeah, because we both recognized that, yes, we

could do it this way, but we could also do it in a much better way. Why would we? Why don't we take more time and really get this right? And so, um, you know, after a while, after we started working together, we, you would record it live, but then you, you know, we'd book you for a whole week. So every episode that you guys listened to, Greg wouldn't be mixing that for about a week, like a lot of work went into that.

So, and if it was on Ontario or parts of Quebec, we'd have the mobile recording track, but then we developed, we did some neat things over the years, we'd kind of developed the system where, you know, we couldn't, we didn't have, we couldn't fly you everywhere. And more importantly, you didn't have all that gear wherever you landed.

Yeah. Like if it was, if it was in the Northwest territory, we're not driving the mobile for three days to get to the Northwest. So we, we're not driving the mobile for three days to get to the Northwest Territory. So we, Bill Haralt, are what we call a PA sound guy, so the person who does the sound front of house, yeah, so who does the sound in the theater, like if you're sitting in an audience, he does the sound in the theater. He started, we would use his gear to record it onto my computer. And then you

would mix it after. Yeah. And even that was a bit of a process because when I come in, because you guys would be on tour and then I'd show up to do the recording, but there are microphones that I would need that Bill didn't use, right? Like there's no reason for Bill to have audience mics. And we talked about audience mics before. And you know, or even DI's. Like Bill would go with DI's on the guitars. Because for a live room, that makes perfect sense. That's normal.

Yeah, you can make it work. Because the people are there and they're experiencing. They're sitting there, so it's different. Yeah, but for a recording that's going to be there to the end of time, then I would put a mic on it. You want to put a mic on that guitar. Yeah, so I would have the DI and the mic, and I would sometimes do a blend,

sometimes do just the mic, you know. So there'd be things, so in the transition period, Bill and I, and you and Bill and I, did a lot of discussions about, okay, about mic placement, what I needed that Bill wasn't already doing, about mic placement of audience mics, and I need extra mics on all the acoustic guitars

and where I would like them placed and what mics I would like those to be and all that kind of stuff. So that's a record. We got far away from the question that you- I still haven't answered the first question yet. Welcome to my relationship with Greg. This is how we talk. This is going to be a whole new series by the time this episode is over.

We should do that. There's a lot of stuff we can talk about. Yeah, well, there is. And we talk. This is going to be a whole new series by the time this episode is over. We should do that. There's a lot of stuff we can talk about. Yeah, well, there is. And we will, we will. But not today. We're going to keep... So we got here because I... No, go ahead.

I'm still trying to say what Stuart, what he was like. Yeah, I know. That was question number one. We've just rabbit holed. Maybe get to the point. Yeah. No, no, it's me. I wanted to take a second to... Because you said I've worked with a lot of performers

and you were talking about what he was like as a performer and I was like, well, we should say what you've done, right? But also, I think, you know, it's, we're pulling back the curtain here. This is part of what we do on the show. So, okay. So now we've described the recording engineer and you and talked a little bit about our process. What was he like? We talked about what he was like as a performer

and why he was good, you know, the fact that he was both a great writer and a great performer, but what was he like as a human being? Well, and that's the thing, like he was very much like he comes across on the show, but more. I always tell people I've never met anybody like him before or since. He was so generous and so empathetic and so inclusive to everybody and so, he would really go out of his way to make sure everyone was okay.

And most people don't do that, at least not to the extreme that he did it. Like it almost, it just, it seemed- If you didn't know him, you'd think it was fake. Yeah, it seemed, I was about to say, it seemed unbelievable. Like it was so over the top. just... If you didn't know him, you'd think it was fake. Yeah, it seemed, I was about to say, it seemed unbelievable. Like, it was so over the top. Yeah. If you didn't know him, you'd think it was fake. Yeah, you'd think there's no way anybody can be like this and be that way all the time. When did you first realize that?

Well, there is a story that I tell people that I think encapsulates this. In the days before Jess Milton, it would have been, yeah, I think it would have been around 2000, maybe, when did you come on the show? 2003. Yeah, it was maybe around 2000. I was doing the show and David Amor, wonderful David Amor, he came to me and he said, yeah, we're doing the show in Montreal,

and you and me are taking the train. Are you in? And I was like, taking the train to Montreal with David Amor? Yeah, absolutely. David Amor, for people who don't know. So he was, you know, if you listen to the original radio show, you would have heard his name at the end of every single episode that ever existed. Which again is a thing that nobody would do. When have you ever heard that? Yeah, founding producer David Amor. That was Stuart's idea. Yeah, no, never. He taught me so much, and he is a legendary producer, a music producer from Peter Zosky's Morningside, and the guy who started the vinyl cafe was Stuart.

Stuart and David Amor created it. And then Stuart made sure, because Amor probably, I don't know when he retired, but he would have been what, maybe the first third of the run of the show? Yeah. So, well, the show started in 94, but it was a summer replacement show in 94 and 95. Then there wasn't really any shows in 96. That was the Turkey story, but there was only two episodes in 96. So it really started for real in 97. And he, uh, I started in 03, so six years later, but I didn't start producing till 04, 04 or 05. So he, yeah, so he produced

it from 1990, well, 94, but it started as a weekly show in 97 to 04. So that's seven years or more. And then I was oh, four to 2015, 11 years. So almost half. Right. Yeah, a third. But Stewart made a point of every single episode. They created it. Years after he was gone.

For more than a decade. He got a founding producer credit. When have you ever heard that credit before? Never. Which is, again, my point. A testament to Stewart. Also a testament to Amor. Yes, true, true. So the offer is, basically, do you want to take the train with me to Montreal?

I was like, absolutely. Like, if David Amor asks me. Yeah, for sure. If David Amor asked me if I wanted to go clean toilets, I'd be like, yep. Yeah, because one of the great aspects of working with On the Violin Cafe before your time was the time that David and I would spend in the studio doing the post on the shows. It was just so he was just such a great guy and we would...

Great guy to hang with. Yeah and we became admittedly less efficient when we were together in the studio because we just you know we just love to do the chatter. He was a great chatter. He was a great chatter. So the opportunity was to go to Montreal. So we end up in Montreal and we've had the rehearsal, we've had all the pre-tapes and everything and it's about half an hour to showtime. And I can't remember what the question is, but there's a question that I need to ask

Stuart about something that's going to happen in the show and because I'm mixing it live, I need to know is it going to go this way or is it going to go that way? And so I go backstage and oh, one thing that I forgot to mention. So as you're well aware, but maybe the people in the audience don't know, another thing that Stuart did was that for most shows or maybe all shows, he would have a catered dinner backstage. Oh yeah.

That was a Jonesy thing, though, eh? That wasn't Stewart. Jonesy started that. So they had a catered dinner, a crew, everybody involved with the show would sit down. Eat together. Yeah, we'd have the sound checks and rehearsals and everything, then we'd have dinner, and then we'd do the show. Which again was such a great thing, very bonding.

It was like being at a big family table. And we'd usually almost always have it at one big giant table. Yeah, yeah. And so we had had the rehearsals, we'd had the meal, and we're getting ready to do the show. It's like half an hour before showtime. And so I go backstage to ask Stuart my question and I see he's in his dressing room and he's like really focused on the script. Like he looks like he's really working something through. Also because he was like... I mean, of course he isn't working on the script because he often was like

rewriting it until minutes before the show. Yeah, and so he seemed intensely... he was intensely working. And so I thought, you know what, I can't interrupt him now. He's like, it's very shortly he's about to step on a stage and he's obviously writing what he's gonna say. He's working something through. So I thought I can't ask him. So down the hall a little bit, I saw Amor. So I thought, oh, I'll just ask Amor. He probably knows what's gonna happen. And, but he was in a conversation, he was standing there with a few people and he was in a conversation. So I didn't want to interrupt their conversation, so I thought, okay, I'll

just wait until he finishes his conversation. He'll see me standing here and he'll know that I have something to ask him. And while I'm standing there waiting, so, you know, Stuart's dressing room door is about ten feet from me and Amor's about ten feet the other way. The custodian of the venue comes by and he's got one of those, you know, those big fluffy brooms, those wide brooms that you clean the floors like in schools and stuff. And he's like brushing, like sweeping the floor

of the hallway where we all are. And he comes along, go past Amor, past me, and he goes past Stuart's door, pushing the broom. And as soon as Stuart sees him, he leaps out of his dressing room. He points out the table of food that's still left, where we had our meal, and he's like, did you get some food? Did you get, you know, the food's here for everyone. And the custodian right away is like, no, no, no, no, no, I don't want to have anything to do with this. But also like, oh no, that's not for me.

But he probably also thought, you know, sometimes like, you know, when I worked at the Gould, there are things that it's for the client of the venue, not for the people that work at the venue. Yeah, that's what I mean. Like he's like, oh, I probably shouldn't. I don't want to overstep. Yeah, I probably shouldn't.

Yeah, and so he was like, no, no, and Stuart was like, he was basically like dragging, he was like, no, no. You will eat. Yeah, he's like, no, no, there's plenty for everyone, you know, this is here for everyone, like come and help yourself. And he's like filling a plate room. And I watched that happen and I thought, who else but him would do that? He was in the middle of this intense thing that I didn't want to interrupt. Yeah, it was so intense that you, even though you needed to interrupt him to do your job, didn't want to interrupt him. I didn't want to.

And then he was able to pull himself out. And then he noticed that guy and he was like, no, this, me making sure this person feels that he's part of everything and that he's included and he's okay, that's more important than the thing I didn't want to interrupt. And I just thought, who does that? Like, it's, I just don, who does that? Like it's, I just don't know anybody else who's like that. That's a great story. That is really exactly what he was like. Yeah. He was just so selfless. Like even though he was going to go on stage, maybe unprepared now.

Well, yeah, definitely. Well, yeah, definitely. Yeah. But, you know, for that to be more important to him than what he was doing for his own sake, it was just... Okay, but I love that story for two reasons, because you're right, that shows the generosity and kindness in his heart and the way, I think, really what he was ultimately trying to say with his stories, right? That this is how we should, not how we should live, but like we all have this inside of us. And this is how we should treat each other. Yeah, how we should treat each other.

And I love that. But also, so that's the altruistic, and that's all true. But also, it really, like, you know where I'm going. But also, he backed himself into those corners, right? He would always be backing himself into these corners. And yet you couldn't, like as his producer, whose job it was to get him out on stage prepared, you couldn't get mad at him,

because he'd be like, well, I had to make sure that this guy had it. Like you're like, oh, yeah, right, but like, what are you saying? Like you're on stage in 39 seconds. What are you gonna say at the beginning of the show? That's what you're supposed to be doing. But yet, I can't tell you how many times

I couldn't get mad at him for doing his, whatever he was supposed to be doing, because the thing that he was doing instead was being incredibly nice and kind and generous and like loving and so you're like, I wanna be mad at you, but like meanwhile meanwhile, you were saving the cat over there, so I can't really get mad at you. So many, God, so many good stories.

We were talking just before we started recording, we were talking about that night in town, was it Smiths Falls with the car? That is a crazy story. I still think about that. Do you really? Yeah, because it's- Oh, and it's a Frank story.

We're just talking about Frank. It is a Frank story, yeah. Frank, but the story was like, yeah, what a legend. Yeah, I still think about that because I have like a... I have a hangover from that story that I still think about. Like I had a hangover the next day after that story happened. So it was one of the days when we did two shows. Right, which was common, going back to our process.

In an ideal world, what I liked to do, well, what we both liked to do, is I liked to have two shots at it, because, pardon, I've talked about this on the podcast before, but we would learn from the audience, right? So we'd do the show, and then I'd tear the whole thing apart, basically, that night.

I would usually do it that night, because I was all jazzed and amped up, but sometimes the next morning, I'd have the whole thing apart. Basically that night, I would usually do it that night because I was all jazzed and amped up but sometimes the next morning. I'd have a sense that night. So I'd sit in the wings and I'd be figuring out what worked and what didn't work. And then I'd get a chance to redo it the next night. And you know what? I produced a show last December and I only had one shot at it, Greg, for somebody else. Yeah, and I came home that night, like I did the show,

and like parts of it went well, but parts of it didn't. You wanted to do over? Oh, I wanted to do over. And I just was like, ugh. Yeah. I really wish I had a chance, because I knew exactly what I would need to do to like optimize it. The show went well, like people they were happy, but I just I was like oh if I

could just do it again tomorrow night I would just take these things out and I'd move this here and then it would be perfect. But as you always say to me those people don't know how much better it could have been. Yeah yeah yeah it's true. They didn't know, but anyway so that was our ideal. Ideally, we'd have two shots at it. So in this particular case, we're in. And that way, for you, you could do that. But also for me, I got to see the show once. If I'm mixing this live, I got to see it once.

So I have a much better shot at it the second night. We'd almost always use the second night, almost always. Like there might be a song that was better the first night. Every once in a while, the audience would be really good the first night, so then you and I would have to mess around with that a little bit. And you see, but because Stuart would also be so much better the next time, looser, you know, and we'd sort of I would really tighten up the stories. Especially if we knew we had a good show the first day.

Yeah, exactly. The second night, you know, it's going to work. But, you know, he and I would we'd be changing the order of songs, but we'd be rewriting the stories and we'd work that whole next day. Anyway, so we're in Smiths Falls for two nights. We're in Smiths Falls for two nights yeah we're in Smiths Falls for two nights so station theater first day is is always a busy day because Frank and I roll up in the mobile and we got to get the mobile fired up you're loading in yeah we got a load in all their microphones we got a setup and we got to be ready for sound

check and then we have sound check it's stressful and we have a meal and then we have a show and so it's a long, very busy day. Those are like 14, 15, 16 hour days. And busy. There's no hour long lunch break. You're leaving CBC at probably 6, 7 in the morning. The show's at 7.30 at night. And you're driving the whole time there,

then you're physically loading in. Those load ins are. And then I guess the one break is we'd almost always have that break for dinner. And then you do the show. ins are. And then, I guess the one break is, we'd almost always have that break for dinner, and then you do the show. But sometimes during that break, I'd be trying to get on top of the mix from what I'd just heard at the soundcheck.

But yeah, so those were busy days. And then we would go out. Yeah, oh yeah. Oh, we'd go out. After the show was over, we would go out. We would go out. I mean, I was young. Yeah, well, we were.

What was your excuse? I was young, I'm still young. We would go out. I mean, I was young. Yeah, well, we were. What was your excuse? We were young. I was young. I'm still young. I was actually young. Yeah. Well, maybe that was my excuse. I was old.

I deserved it. Right, right, right. After the first night, we went out. The next morning, everybody was a little bit slow getting out of bed. We weren't out by the crack of dawn. And on the second day, because the second day was a much easier day, because we're all set up.

Everything's good to go. You roll in at like four. Yeah, if we didn't have to do any kind of fixes or pre-tapes or whatever, we'd roll in at four. I'd fire stuff up. Make sure everything's fine. But basically, you're just coming in for dinner. Yeah, and we're basically coming in to eat and do the show.

And then you're feeling pretty good. So we had most of the day. And it was great. So wherever we were, we could look around, we could go, we could just basically do whatever we wanted. But the problem was, a lot of times, if Frank and I would show up in the mobile... He didn't have wheels, he didn't have a car. You're not driving that giant truck around. You can't unplug the mobile and drive around Smith Falls. You can also not go in through the Timmy's drive-through. Yeah, exactly. So that night before, I think you had said to us,

hey, what are you guys doing tomorrow? Well, because my cycle's very different. So I had, in the same situation, the first day's big for me too, because I'm usually driving in from wherever, and doing the loading. But I actually, like the second day's a heavy big for me too, because I'm usually driving in from wherever, but, and doing the load and... But I actually, like the second day is a heavy lift for me, because I'd be reworking the entire show. So actually for me, day two... Because I know we would see you at breakfast

and you'd be like, papers everywhere. I'd be always, always, yeah, yeah, papers. So I'd always have like all that. I'd just be like, people would come down for breakfast and be like, hey! And I'm like, don't talk to me. Yeah, like don't talk to me. Like I've already had 17 cups of coffee at that point. Everyone's rolling down, hey. And I'm like, don't talk to me. Yeah, like don't talk to me. Like I've already had 17 cups of coffee at that point.

Everyone's rolling down at 10 and I'm like, I've been up for hours. I have a whole table with all my papers, 17 different versions of the set list. Cause it's, when I have to rework a show like that, like I'm breaking eggs to make that omelet, right? Like it's messy there for a bit. So depending on which part of the process you see me in,

I'm like, get away from me. So yeah, so usually I would do that very early before Stewart woke up because he wasn't a morning person. So I would, and I liked to, once he woke up and was ready to work, like I needed, I liked to go in with a plan. Like it was like, I've worked on it. I've been up since 430 in the morning. This is what we're going to do. Yeah. I've only slept two hours. I've had 17 cups of coffee, but I've got a plan. And I would go in and he would tell me either like, good morning kiddo or no, I don't think so. So, but I would go in with a plan. And so, but then we'd have to redo, we'd have to do it.

Right? So we'd have, sometimes we'd be rewriting whole sections of the show or I'd have to get the musicians. So that day was big for me. So you had said the night before. Yeah, I think you asked us like, what do you guys do? What do you guys do? Because we had free time. Yeah, you're like, oh, we don't have a car. There's not that much we can do.

We don't have a car. We don't have any wheels or anything. And I was like. So you said, yeah, well, just take my car. I'm going to be in the middle of this. I'm going to be writing. Yeah, I'm certain I got to rework the whole show. You take my car. It's no big deal. Yeah. So the next morning got to rework the whole show. You take my cars. No big deal. Yeah, so so the next morning

We come down for breakfast. We we pick up your keys you give Frank your keys and we go to the parking lot And Subaru Forester. Yeah, I can't yeah, it was and it was what color was it black. Yeah So this black Subaru Forester like you're in you're in rural, Ontario Yeah, and you're driving a black Subaru. There's a lot of black Subarus on the road. So we go into the parking lot. It's a nice, beautiful sunny day, and there's like four cars in the parking lot. And right in the center of the big wide open parking lot is my car.

There's Jess's car. So we go over and Frank has the keys. So he goes to get in the driver's side and And he gets in, and he's like fiddling away. I go to get in the passenger side. And the passenger side is all full of recordable CDs and papers and whatnot. Which makes sense, because that's how I used to deliver the show.

I would burn CDs and give it to master control. So you're like, yeah, that totally made sense to me, because we delivered everything on the CD. And both you and I would always have a million CDs. That's how we traded music. They had Sharpie written all over them, like what was on them, and we would, both you and I would always have a million CDs. Yeah. Like that's how we traded these. And they had Sharpie written all over them, like what was on them, like we would do. And there were a lot of them, there were like probably four or five boxes and a bunch of

loose CDs and then a big stack of papers. But also like, you know me, is it weird that my car was that messy? Well it wasn't messy. Oh it was tidy, okay. It was all tidy, it was all in a nice little pile. And while I'm doing this, I hear Frank is like grumbling. He's like, what is this? He's grumbling about something.

I don't know what he's grumbling about. So I'm moving all this stuff. But he's Frank, so he's just, yeah. Yeah, he's like, brr, brr, brr. So I'm moving this stuff, and then he says, I can't get the key to turn. And I'm like, oh, that's weird. I don't think anything more of it.

I load all the stuff into the back seat. And then, so I sit down and he's still like struggling with the key and I'm like, oh, it's probably, it has, you know, it has that, those buttons. Sometimes they used to have cars where you'd have a button you had to press in, in order to turn the key.

And he's like, I'm looking for the button. I don't, there's no button. I don't, I can't he's like, I'm looking for the button. There's no button. I don't know what's happening. I can't get this thing started. And so I was like, well, you know, it's not my problem. I just started looking out the window and I'm like sort of scanning the parking lot. I'm looking around and then I look over to my right and I see my right and I see in the shade right next to the building a black Subaru Forester. And I looked at that and I think for a second, like it didn't, I didn't know what to think at first. And then I was like, oh no.

And Frank is still like, this damn thing. He's like trying to start. Yeah, he's trying to start this car. And I was like, Frank, and he was like this, like a sitcom. He's like, I'm doing this. Yeah, don't bother me. Yeah, he's trying to start this car. And I was like, Frank. And it was like a sitcom. He's like, I'm doing it. Yeah, don't bother me. Yeah, don't bother me. I'm like, no, no, Frank.

And so I hit him. I'm like, and he's like, what? And I go, look over there. And he's like, oh no. And so the car obviously wasn't locked. And so we get out of the car. We go over to what we now know is your car, fire it up and drive away. And so the... And there were only literally four cars in the parking lot. It was a huge parking lot.

And because yours was right next to the building, it was in the shade, we came out and saw this one in the sun all by itself. And so the hangover part is, I've thought this many times over the years since that happened, is what did the guy think or the person think when they came back to their car? They open up the car and they sit and they're like, what the, how come my seat is moved? The CDs have been moved to the back seat.

And then he or she would have looked over and been like, oh my god, I've been robbed. Right. And then when they go to look around the rest of the car, they see, oh, no, I wasn't robbed. They just moved my stuff into the back seat. But my car hasn't moved my seat. They're probably like, what is happening in this town? And I've thought about this a lot since then. I'm like, what do you think that person thought when they got in their car? So I can tell you, I don't know what they would have thought, but I can tell you what

I would think, which is I would have assumed I had done something wrong, right? I would immediately be like, I'm losing my mind. When did I put those in the back seat? I could have sworn that I put those in the front seat. But why would the seat be moved? I guess I would have just, I would just assume that I had done something stupid. Well, that person certainly didn't do the stupid thing. That is funny. Oh god, that's funny. If you wrote that in a sitcom, people would be like, come on, that would never happen. That was so good. All right, listen, we said that there's a million stories

we could tell, and we could, and we should do this again. But before I say goodbye to you, I want to, I have one other, I don't even know if it's a question, but a statement, which is, we talked about going out and going out the night before, and that was a really fun part of the job. Yeah, and not just us, like we would, you know, almost always, pretty much everyone would go out the night before. That was a really fun part of the job. Yeah, and not just us. Almost always, pretty much everyone

would go out after the show. Yeah, it was so fun. And there were lots of towns where they'd keep the bar open for us. Open for us, yeah, yeah, for sure. So that's like a huge part of our, you and my culture with each other. And one of the things I love most about what we're doing now is we've

taken that part of the culture and brought it to the podcast. That's true. And I just like, you and I are kind of, you know, I have a friend who's a psychologist, a really good friend, and she put it this way to me recently. She said, you're a meaning-maker. And I... That's a good way to put it. Yeah. Yeah. But you're a meaning-maker, Greg. Like, you really are a meaning-maker.

You understand, well, you recognize what things matter, you protect the things that matter, and you, like, integrate them in a way where you, how can I phrase this? You understand the things that matter, you mark them and you appreciate them in the moment and then you celebrate those facts and name them and make a thing out of it. So I'm kind of proud of how we've done that on the show, which gets me to something else.

So the little moment that I do at the end of every episode, right? So I don't even know how it started. I do. Oh, you do? I don't remember, how? Oh, because it wasn't in the first season. No, I know, I just started later.

Yeah, but I don't remember what made me start. Do you remember what made me start? Yes. Okay, oh my God. It was me. Ah! See, you made your own meaning. Yeah. No, it was basically. See, you made your own meeting. Yeah, yeah.

No, it was basically supposed to be a joke. Because for the entire first season. Oh, I remember now. So yeah, in the credits, my friend Danny Michelle and then Greg and Louise. Okay, and Danny, you should know, so Danny Michelle is a musician. We toured with him. He did, I think, four tours with us. And so, you know, he toured with us a lot.

He was close to Stuart. He was close to me. But over the years, you know, Danny's one of my closest friends. He's like, we're very, very close. And what's interesting to me is the way I talk to Danny and the way I hang out with Danny is very close. And what's interesting to me is the way I talk to Danny and the way I hang out with Danny is very similar. My relationship with Danny is very similar to my relationship with you. Oh yeah?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, like, cause we go deep. We go deep. You and I go deep. We talk about real stuff and we talk for long periods of time. And I only have probably about five or six friends that I do that with, or five or six people in my life. I don't even do that with Josh, my husband. Like, obviously I like Josh, I'm married to him, I love him, but he doesn't talk like that. My dad does, so that won't surprise you, you know my dad.

So my dad and I have those kinds of deep, we go deep the way you and I do. Stuart and I went deep the way you and I do. Stuart and I went deep the way you and I do. Danny and I do, you and I do. My friend Kristin the one, the meaning maker, she's like that. My friend Andrea, like I have a few. Anyway, so I think it's kind of cool that this podcast,

two of those people that I've created things with in the past, I guess what I'm trying to say is, it's not a coincidence that I asked Danny to write the theme song, right? Because he's one of my people, but he's also someone who he gets what we're trying to do here and honoring things and stuff. And so, you know, Danny did it for me, and I think did a great job, and he's a good friend. And so I wanted to give Danny a little private shout out, right? So the first season, yeah, every time I was like,

my good friend Danny or, you know, Danny. My friend Danny. My friend Danny. And Greg and Louise. And Greg was like, what am I, Jeff, live over here? So finally, so I want to say one thing about the fact that we go deep. I always get reminded of this when I say to my wife,

I gotta have a quick call with Jess. Ain't call with Jess. I just have one thing we gotta talk about. It's a quick thing. She's like, oh yeah, two and a half hours later, the quick call is over. But yeah, so we went through the whole season, the whole first season of this, like my friend Danny and Greg and Louise, and I didn't honestly, I didn't really think anything of it, like, my friend Danny and Greg and Louise. And I didn't, honestly, I didn't really think anything of it. Obviously you don't care. But in the last episode or two, I thought, oh, this is kind of funny. I can, you know, I can just sort of.

I'll riff on this. Yeah, I can sort of, I can sort of. We'll take the piss out of her a bit. Yeah, yeah. And so after they were all recorded, because I didn't want to do it and throw you off your reeds of the ones yet to come. So after it was all recorded and you walked out of the studio into the control room,

and I was like, I thought we were friends. And you were like, what? Like, oh yeah, I see Danny and Michelle is your friend, but Greg and Louise, we're just Greg and Louise. I thought we were better friends than that. and I thought that was the end of it but Yeah, I should have known better than to tangle with you. So then the next season the next season Yeah, the first credit was like I don't even remember what it was, but it was like some crazy ball over the top

It was like I think it was something like and our recording engineer is one of the greatest human beings I've ever had the pleasure of working with. Not only is he a very experienced, excellent recording engineer, he's one of my deepest, dearest friends. Yeah. Right, right. And I thought, okay, fair enough, I deserve that. But I thought it was just going to be that one. But no, when Jess gets a hold of something, she does not let go. And so now, for now, five more seasons, there have been these things, which I think are two things. One, sometimes they're very touching, and I really do appreciate the sentiment behind them. And other times, I think are two things. One, sometimes they're very touching and I really do appreciate the sentiment behind them. And other times, I think they are hilarious.

Oh yeah, there's some funny ones. So I love them. I purposely don't look ahead. Like when we're recording, I oftentimes look at the script as we go just to make sure everything's good. But I purposely don't read that because I wanna- They catch you by surprise.

Yeah, I wanna have a real reaction. And there are sometimes when I've actually got on the talk back and said something. And I can see you. And so, for those of you listening, when you hear me laugh, that's so legit because what happens is where I'm sitting in the studio, I can see Greg. So I know that he doesn't know ahead. We keep it a surprise. And I see it and I can see him burst out laughing. So if I'm laughing, it's almost always good. Like some of my favorites and I'm going to tell you my absolute favorite, but some of my favorites were I loved the one we played the story,

Rhoda's revenge about the doll. And it was the disturbingly life like that. Greg Dickler. That is a good one. Yeah. Or let's see. Or I really liked there. I wrote about curling and how it shouldn't be, you know, scary. And Greg, I ain't afraid of no curling to Clued. Just the idea of you being like, I ain't afraid of no curling.

That sounds like a little person that you know, I ain't afraid of anything. Yeah, exactly. And or someone who's been to his fair share of do-south conventions. So, you know, there are sometimes... It's always a reference to something. It's always a reference to something. It's often a reference to something in the show, but sometimes it's a private joke between you and I. And those, of course, are my favorite. And that's where I want to end today because I want to, because you said that great

thing about, you know, the great story about going out after the shows, which I, like, until this moment, I don't think I realized that that's part of the culture we've created around the podcast is we record it and then we go have a drink. But there is a particular drink that we have created. Oh, I know. I can see where this is going. Yeah, that we've created a thing around you and I. And we go to the Library Bar, which is a bar in the Royal York Hotel. Sounds like this is not sponsored content. This is not the show. You're going to have to talk to them and get some cash.

Yeah, this is not an advertisement. But it's a lovely bar, and we could go on and on about all the things we like about it. But basically what happens is it started with a free drink ticket, because I'm cheap. And so we were given these free drink tickets for the library bar, and you got like an $8 beer. And I got like a $12 glass of wine, that was that and that's what we did and and and then one day you've turned to me because this is the way you think I love this about the way you think you're always kind of optimizing. Greg's wife Sandra is always like why do you always have to optimize something? Everything. Why do you have to optimize everything?

Everything what you do and and this is why we're such close friends. And Josh calls me a tweaker. I'm tweaking everything. This is the same personality. Anyway, so he's like, wait a second, wait a second. Why are we using these free drink tickets for an $8 beer and a $12 glass? So I'm like, they have really fancy drinks here. Because it's a $30 ticket that you could only use for a single drink. One single drink.

Yeah. Yeah. And so up to $30 and he's like this is no this is not optimized. No. And but neither of us are really you know cocktail fancy drinks people so we're like no thanks. But he's like let's just do it once like who cares we don't have to drink it. I'm like all right I'm up for stuff. So yeah we're trying to figure out we're looking at these drinks and it's all it's like it's like it written in another language. Yeah it's all these crazy things I've't understand it. I don't know what any of them are Yeah, and we're trying to figure out which ones we would even like and then a country bumpkin Yeah, yeah

Yeah And then at the table next to us these two drinks arrive which then the waiter proceeds to set on fire They're literally on fire. Yeah, and so we were fire. And so we're like, two of those please. Yeah, like we're like that scene from, I'll have what she's having. I'll have what she's having, right? Like it's like, okay, I'm in. So we had it and we just thought it would be kind of gimmicky,

you know, it's just fun, whatever. But it's so good. And the drink is called the Sake Away. Well, before you get there, we have very different palates. We really do. We have very different palates and very different ideas of things to eat and things to drink. I'm not a wine drinker, Jess is a wine drinker. I love wine. I like bitter things. I like, and I'm adventurous. Yeah, I'm not adventurous at all. And so for us to find something like that, that's, you know,

that's out of the ordinary side that we both like is kind of strange. In fact, we eat very differently, you and I. Yeah, we have very different palates and we eat very differently. We have so much in common, but you're right. I hadn't thought about that. We eat so differently. And so, yeah, so we tried it and we knew it would be fun because we thought, but it's so good. And the drink is called the Sacred Beast. And we both have agreed it's the greatest drink we've ever had, both of us. In my entire life. Which is why it's so great. Yeah, it's so great. Yeah, it's really, really great. And, uh, we're going to sign off now so we can go have one of those. Um,

but also that was my favorite private little shout out. That was a good one. Yeah. Yeah. Just at the, just at the, I think it was only a few weeks ago, I think now, but yeah. So, um, to you, my sacred beast, thank you so much for, for being here. And to those of you listening, thanks for listening. And that's what it sounds like to hear two people talking that really enjoy working together. It's been my absolute pleasure to work with you and to be trained by you. You taught me so much that I know.

So thank you for this today, but thank you for this podcast, as I've said before, and I'll say it over and over because it's important. I could not do it without you. I wouldn't want to do it without you. And thanks for like 20 years, which is crazy. As I've told you many times, I just love to do this because I did retire from the CDC, but I had no interest in retiring from this thing. The relationship, the work, I love being here. I love spending time with you. We love spending time together.

And yet we also get a lot of really good work done. It's something I look forward to personally, and we do a lot of good work. So it's just a win-win in all ways. And like I've told you this many times, my biggest fear is that one day you're going to be like, yeah, I don't think we're going to do this anymore. Yeah, that'll be sad. Because yeah, I would really miss it.

And it's more important spending time together than the show to me is a vehicle for us to be able to hang out. That's nice. Well, for those of you listening at home, please don't stop listening because then Greg and I won't be able to do what we're about to do right now, which is go get a sacred beast. So thanks for being here and thanks for listening.

And for those of you listening to the podcast, we're off. It's summer. We're drinking sacred beasts, but we will be back the Friday after Labor Day. So until then, so long for now.