Bad Dates with Jameela Jamil - "Bi-erasure" (w/ Travon Free, Ian Fidance, and Kat Bird)

Episode Date: July 20, 2026

Joel sits down with an all-bisexual panel — Trayvon Free, Ian Fidance, and Kat Bird — to dig into the stereotypes that follow bisexual people around (too greedy, secretly gay, just experimenting), the specific stigma bisexual men face versus bisexual women, and what it felt like to come out on their own timelines. The conversation covers dating across the gender spectrum, getting fetishized, getting razzed by other comics, and not quite fitting neatly into gay or straight spaces. Send in your own listener questions by emailing us at [e-mail] or leave us a voicemail at ‪[phone]‬‪. Subscribe to SmartLess Media on YouTube for full episodes, and follow @intimacycoordinatorshow on Instagram and TikTok for clips.   Joel Kim Booster: @ihatejoelkim · Loot Season 3 (Apple TV+), Fire Island (Hulu), Psychosexual (Netflix) Ian Fidance: @ianimal69 · special Wild, Happy & Free; podcast Bein’ Ian with Jordan Kat Bird: @katbirdcomedy · LA stand-up; podcast @katbirdpod; opener for Bobby Lee & Andrew Santino Produced by Brian Baldinger and Anne Harris. Associate Producers are Maddie McCann and Katherine Calligori. Editor is Jacob Vaus. Executive Producers are Will Arnett, Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, Robert Cohen, Richard Korson and Bernie Kaminski. Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Bad Dates ad-free. Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Intimacy. Hey guys, welcome to another episode of Intimacy Coordinator. I am your host, Joel Kim Booster. If this is your first time tuning into the podcast, here at Intimacy Coordinator, I do just that. I coordinate intimacy amongst me and my guests. We talk about everything related to sex, love, dating, relationships, and everything in between. We get real and raw and a little bit messy. And today's episode is no exception.

My guests today are Trayvon Free, Ian Fidance, and Kat Bird. all avowed bisexuals, and they are talking about it. We get into everything from bisexual stereotypes, why they were at the butt of so many jokes, and also, what is it like not feeling like you belong in either the gay or the straight community? I think we solve it, guys. I think we solve bisexuality on this episode. Get excited. Here it is. Very excited about this all bisexual panel today on the pod. Number one, he's an Emmy and Oscar winning writer and comedian who's written for Showtime, HBO, and the Daily Show. It's Trayvon Free. Thank you so much for being here.

He is a comedian and podcaster. You've heard him on his podcast, Bein Ian with Jordan. And now you can watch his travel show, Ian Doe, an odd guy doing odd jobs. It's Ian Finance, everybody. Hi, everybody. And last but certainly not least, to my right,

she's an LA comedian whose special My Name Could Be Worse is online right now and you can see her touring with Bobby Lee this summer. It's Cat Bird. Hello, Cat Bird. Thank you guys so much for being here. I'm so excited to be talking with you guys specifically. it would have been really funny if we did the bisexual episode with no bisexuals.

It would have been pretty typical. That's normally how it goes. What is one of the biggest stereotypes about bisexuals that really grinds your gears? Or you find to be completely false or you've never experienced it out in the world? I think the, I probably feel like the most common one is that a woman won't be enough for you and you'll still secretly want a man behind her back or your actually. just gay and won't admit it. You're gay, you won't admit it. You're straight.

You're lying about being gay. You are greedy. You are someone. I know for me, it's, I feel like the B and LGBT stands for bully. We're the only part of that whole umbrella that you're allowed to be like, come on. Yeah. You for it, you know, or like my opinion or anything will get disdemeanor. counted because of my sexuality.

You can tweet anything about a bisexual person and you won't lose your job. It's true. We're like the punching bags of gay. Without a doubt. Kat, do you have one? I think for the women, it always feels like very performative. Like girls just want to like hook up with girls in college

but they want to settle down with men. So that, yeah, or we're only bisexual during June. That's always like that. I thought you're going to say during the ludial. Yeah. When I obulate, I'm bisexual, for sure. I'm bisexual during my follicular.

I will say it is interesting to me because you know that the stereotype that you are just on your way to being gay as a bisexual man is so interesting to me because I do know so many gay men who did start out identifying as bisexual. And part of me wonders if we're going by the Kinsey scale rule, they were so frustrated by. everyone giving them shit for being bisexual, that maybe they weren't a full Kinsey 6, but decided to just lean that way because it's easier than having to deal with. They're like, I'll show you gay. Yeah, I've heard people say that.

Like, it's like, it's better than dealing with the stress of, like, trying to date women and then having to, like, convince them that you actually like women and all the things that go into that. So you're just like... Yeah, or the conversation on women being like, you a top or bottom.

Yeah. This is going to change every opinion I have about you. Well, I think it's hard to be a bisexual man dating a straight lady. I think that you have to be a bisexual dating a bisexual. But it's not the same for women. Like, I can be bisexual and date a straight guy and there's no problem. But I think that there's like skepticism from women. It's just nice to hear something's hard for a man.

Yeah. So I've got to hear that and feel that. You've never run into, though, Kat, like a guy like fetishizing it on you? Oh, 100%. Yeah. Like, I would love to do a threesome, that sort of thing. Have you acquiesced at all ever? Yeah.

Yeah, I have. Okay. But I'm so, I know, but I try, you know, but it's true. It's like, if you're like, oh, I'm bisexual, then the guy's like, dude, I'd love to watch. You're like, what? Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is my culture, you know? When did everybody come out?

I'm curious as bisexual. Stages for me. So, like, college to some people. and then fully when I was like 20, 21 around that time. Okay. And this was pre or post glee. Oh.

Wait, pre-post, well, I didn't hear that. Pre or post-glee, the Ryan Murphy show. Oh, this was, I'm old. So this was 2006 or seven. Okay, so pre-glee. So braver, actually. Post-glee, you got a podcast. Yeah, post-glee, the world was different.

Okay, the one was a little more accepted. Yeah. Ian. I came out, dude, actually the pole shooting, I was at a gay bar. I used to go to places like alone. I used to like bruise and like, because I, everything was like so scared of like losing. And I was so afraid people would like hate me or whatever. I didn't like know what I was.

But I was at a gay bar and this happened. I went to Veselka and I was like, dude, I got to like tell people about this. Because God forbid something happens and I'm at a place. And everyone in my life was like, why was he alone in a gay bar? wearing leather. Like, wearing leather. Yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah. Why is he just like a cop in the 70s? What? And then it, it, you know, I,

sorry, I'm turning this into like Byron Allen. I'm serious, like, I like, you know, Joel,

I, it's, it's so strange because I came out kind of on stage in tandem with my personal life. I started doing material

about it. And then it's this thing. I don't know if you can relate, but coming out, you know, I think it was like 30. And I thought I was going to take this to the grave and like never tell anyone. And then I was like talking about it on stage and feeling like, you know, open and empowered.

But and people would ask about it on podcast. I'd answer questions because it's like, you know, me buy guys a lot. And then I feel like that got kind of like weaponized and like an easy hit on me like online with stuff. And I'm like, man, I think I wish I kept it closer to the vest or when I got asked questions. I was like, we can talk about something more interesting. I just got asked questions and I answered. And so it was like a slow, I guess at like 30, I started coming out to like brands. And then, you know, I like was doing jokes about it on stage.

And like some comics get like slick with it. No, you know, like I've had to like grab up a couple comics about like shit they've said and stuff in like green rooms and everything. And I don't know. That's interesting. Like stuff specifically about you or about bisexuals in general? Yeah. Well, just like I, you know, like getting called like. like half a fag or something or like, you know, like, oh, I didn't know.

That would be cute and funny if I said that. Yeah. Yeah. Not one of the legion of skanks. Yeah, I know. And then it's like, you know, like, just like even, dude, even on fucking Rogan recently, Ari was like, oh, I was going to have a sex in the city podcast, but gay Ian had one. And he sucks dick.

So obviously, like, sex in the city. And Rogan's like, does he suck? Dude, what is he? Is it? And I'm like, dude, this fucking sucks. Like this conversation wouldn't be had about someone who's gay or someone who, you know, and it's like, I feel like it's like a easy punching bag in a way because you're kind of in the middle. Like everything's so extreme now. If you're even a centerist politically, people are like, well, you're terrible.

Yeah. You know, like anything. I think people want to see things in such a binary that if you're not in a easily discernible category, people are like, no, I can make fun of you. Go after this, you know. Kat, what about you? when did you come out? So I remember when I was 11, I saw my brother's playboy magazine

and I saw boobs for the first time. And then I was like, oh my God, I'm a lesbian. I remember thinking, oh, no, I'm gay. Like, I was scared. So I told my mom, I was like, mom, I think I really like these. And then she goes, she's British. She's like, oh, darling, everybody loves boobs. And I was like, okay.

So I just assumed, like, we were all kind of loving boobs together. And then I grew up in a really conservative. there's a lot of Mormons in my high school. So I would like make out with women or like my friends. But I was like theater. We'd be like, oh, we got to like make out for the theater project. What place? Whatever.

Like a fellow. Like best. You know, a streetcar named Desire. Just like totally off work. The cat. The gelical cat kits is now. And but I was just really embarrassed. Like I was, everyone was like, that's, you know, I would never be open about it.

But then I went to Berkeley. I went to Cal and then it was like, game over. They'll get you every time. I know. If you weren't by, they were like, you got to go to Stanford. So I was like, I've tried. But yeah, I went to, so probably 21. I was openly bisexual.

I had a girlfriend. I had a couple girlfriends at the same time. You initially, though, when you were young and saw the boobs, though, your freak out was you were a lesbian. And when did you realize that it was? isn't just girls, though? I had my first, like, crush on a guy when I was 13. And I was like, his name was tired. And his knockers were insane.

Knockers were huge. Weiner was bigger. Yeah. He had a dad dick and everything. But I remember being like, oh my God, he's so handsome and he was a skateboarder and he was just really attractive. Oh, skateboarders really. They get me. Every time in my basement.

That's not cool. You guys did that, like, young. Yeah, I think I felt. it young, but I was still very nervous about admitting that maybe I was attracted. The thing is, I came out at 16 because people had been calling me a faggot

since I was 11, you know, and it's at a certain point, it's like, why bother at all? Like, I feel like, it's, do you find it, do you think a lot more people are bisexual than are out right now? Yes, pretty easy. Well, I don't know even bisexual, but just same sex attracted

because there's no reason to hate someone that much or like bring it up if there wasn't something that we ticked off in them that makes them feel strange because it's it's it's the scale i think it's such a scale you know well it's i've hooked up with so many quote unquote straight guys who identify as straight like say that this has nothing to do with their straightness and it is weird because they don't identify as bi and do you think part of being bisexual is the opting in of it if you have like the ability. Does that make sense, though, what I'm saying? Like, there are so many straight guys I know who are functionally bisexual because they are, you know, they, they are attracted to women, have,

you know, female partners or have had them in the past, and yet still, like, can fully get penetrated by me and say they are straight. And they're not even in prison. No. He's a prison of our mind. They're living in their own prison. Richard Pryor famously talked about sucking dick, and nobody was like, Are you by? Are you gay? What are you? He's like, man,

just sucked a dick, you know? Interesting. I think it, I don't know how you guys feel, but maybe it can like change throughout. You're more just like, these are things that I do and it doesn't.

It's different. Like, I kind of like being other. Like, I don't like being like one thing. It's hard to say straight though, because straight is straight, right? Like, it's like,

if like, if straight doesn't mean straight, then nothing else can mean anything. Like, But I'm gay. Like I love share and I love glitter and I love all the things people think gay people love. But I only fuck. And you're like, but you see, like, there's like a breakdown where to me it feels like the guys who are like, I'll sleep with men.

I'll do all this stuff with men, but I'm straight are so imprisoned in their masculinity that they can't even conceive of the idea. of being comfortable by saying there anything else because either how they grew up or, you know, who family, all the stuff that goes into that. But the idea of, like, I can't even conceive of when I was growing up and I realized for the first time that like men were attractive, but also women were still attractive and still wanting to go through life being or calling myself straight. Because the thing I wanted most was to be what I actually was, to be who I actually was. And so the moment I found safety in being able to do that, I couldn't wait to do it.

I started coming out to people in pockets, friends, some family this is like here and there. And I wasn't working hard to like hide it, but I wasn't ready to just be like, here I am until I was dating someone who I just cared about so much that I was like, I can't not, I can't pretend this doesn't exist anymore. Sure. Like I need everyone, I need my, I need everybody to know this so that I can do this out and proudly, right? And it was everyone super chill and kind about it? There were some varying degrees of response. Surprisingly, people who I thought would take it one way, took it the opposite way, and it was a whole thing.

But my, by that point, I come to the point, or I come to this. understanding of myself where it's like either you accept me or fuck off like I literally like I know so many people who are like I have my family I lose my I literally was so like I do not give a fuck like I'm going to be me so hard I'm like I'm doing stand up at the time so all these things are working in my life that

I'm in a position where I'm going to talk about me and I want to be fully mean I just got so tired of carrying around the secret and doing everything like you know what I mean And so the idea of being like, I'm straight when how we define straight is not that is so like. Well, first of all, congrats on getting out of stand-up. Oh, wait. You're free.

Jeannie, you're free. I guess this is another question that I have for all of you sort of off the back of that, which is like I think a lot of people when they think about bisexuality, they think about sex primarily. And it happens a lot with homosexuals too. There's, you know, running-in-mill gay guys too. But I think specifically with bisexuals, the idea is that it is all about sex and there's no, one of the genders, the amorous part of it is going to be missing from it. And I think that's where that stereotype from gay men who are nervous about dating by men because they're like, they want to settle down with a wife and kids someday, they're going to leave me. And the reverse also is a stereotype.

but like is there for you a big component of it that is sort of romantic and like beyond the physical? That's a good question. I feel like I'm the most one of the most unique in that way because I'm such a hardcore three. Like I'm so down the middle. Like there is literally no like you were like talking about looks. I know. You're talking about. I'm extremely.

I'm extremely high. On the other LAA Superficial. Check out the episodes on YouTube is you want to see what Trayvon looks like. Kenzie 3. Yeah. Kenzie 3. Oh, okay.

Where like. L.A. 10. Tampa 9. Yeah, right. How do you Cleveland? But I just, it would, it also made it, I felt like it made it harder in a way because I have such an equal and open attraction to all sorts of people.

And people just can't. can't understand that. Like they can kind of under, even when you get into body, they can understand male feet. Like, when you're like, oh no,

literally if anyone or anything is attractive to me, like I'm interested. Like I'm into it. Like, no matter what it is. The older I get, the more I'm like, I want to find my person.

Whatever, whatever body that their soul is enveloping with, that's who I'm going to be, that's who I'd like to be with. I would like to be with the person. But in my past, I've dated, I've dated a guy and a couple of trans women, but I've always more so been drawn to long-term relationships with women.

And a lot of my friendships are with women. I think I'm just more drawn to that, but I feel like bisexuality in men for me has been a very physical thing. And, you know, I mean, me and this guy had this thing for like 11 years when I was younger, and it was like in secret and it was only physical and we never kids. and like it was crazy. And I think that may have influenced it a little bit. Oh, you bet.

But we didn't talk. We didn't talk. It was through a hole in the wall. But we, I think, I think ultimately the older I get, I'm like, I don't care what body you're in. Well, I mean, I am superficial. I mean, you got to be better than a three. But I just want to find like a. connection. I think love on the spectrum

has really helped me decide what I want. Just like, I just want a connection and share interest. And to be able to be like, I like you. It's so pure. Like, I don't care who it's with. That's just what I want. It really is. You know? Kat, what about you? Are you at Kinsey 3 straight down the middle? No.

I don't know. I, like, I fluctuate. So I'd say physical. I usually, like, I don't know. There's just certain phases where I'm like, ooh, I need a man to just like throw me around a little bit. But with women, And I like women because we can like talk to each other's for nurturing. Like if you're like there, like there's more of an intimacy there. But whenever I date women, I end up being the guy.

Oh, interesting. So that's a lot of responsibility. And are you, like, you've never met a nice like bowl, like. Bo, what, bull? Bull. I'm not going to say the rest of it. You know, bull. B-U-L-L-L-L.

Bull, like a female bull. The other, and then there's another word. And then there's another word. Bull-hit. No, can we not see. Bull dyke. It's a bulldike. I don't know what a ball ride.

It's not an insult. It's a type of person. We were trying to lead her to the water. Like you can't lead a horse the water but you can't make it like motorcycle riding. So, okay. Lots of keys. Yes, a lot of change. A lot of Subaru kind of. Yeah, I met one and then I was the dude again in that.

Still? Yes, because they don't expect me to be kind of like strong. And I, you know, I've got a lot of core strength. And, you know, I do stand up. So that's kind of like inherently masculine. Yeah. So they'll be like, I'm a top and I'll be like, we'll see about that. That's so funny.

I didn't realize that gay women had the same problem that gay men do all the time. There's liars. Liars everywhere. Yeah. When you get them home. Do you think, how much of it for you, Ian, do you think is gay guys are annoying and you can't be in a relationship with that? That's so funny because I did. I'm attracted to feminine,

like whether I'm with women, trans men, it's always like feminine. And I dated a guy who was like super hyper feminine. And at a certain point, I was like, well, blah,

blah. My brother, can we blow each other like the fellas? But I, I don't know. I mean, I think, um,

you know, I think secretly, and maybe I just haven't allowed myself to do that. Like, I think secretly, I like, I'm always a masculine. I'm always, you know, I've kind of evolved in my relationships with women to be more. I'm still, like, dominant, but I do, not being, like, submissive, but I, you know, I like being held. And I like being, like, nurtured and treated right.

And I've never really had that from a guy. And I think I'm just, like, scared of the noises I would make. Just like, oh, no, no, no. So I don't know. Trayvon, have you engaged much with, because I feel like, like, lady bisexual, engage a lot. It sounds so Victorian. I love that. Like, lesbian community.

Oh, yeah, I'm weaving in and out of the lesbian. I don't know. Like, I have a couple of really close bisexual male friends that hang out with us in our gay group a lot. But it's not super common. Like, do you find yourself engaging with, like, the gay community or any other? or like subsect of queerness? I, you know what's funny is

the way my life is sort of worked out especially being six foot seven athlete through college and high school and all of those things, super hyper-masculent everything. So, Ian and you, not a math. I've never had a real

core group of like queer friends. I've never been in a like queer friend group in that way. I know I have queer individual friends that, like, I know and, like, talk to, but I've never had that community in that way, if that makes sense. Yeah. A little bit in college when I was still, like, not out with some of my, like, queer friends. But for the most part, whenever I am in or around any version of the queer community,

it's very much deliberate in a way that is, like, I live literally on, like, Santa Monica and Las Yanagan. I walk up and down. When I go to Airwine, I'm in Boishtown, like, hardcore. And I'm like, oh, man, look at all these cool guys with their friends. They're, like, going places, doing people. I desire that so much. I really wish I had that.

But everyone assumes I'm straight. That's the thing. So, like, people, no, even as long as I've been talking about this publicly and, like, everything, it's the assumption is always either. Even when I'm, like, around quick, I can see them kind of like, what are you? Who are you? Interesting. Are you on team?

Are you one of those dudes? Or, like, want to punch me in the face? And I have to go out of my way. They'll be like, no, no. Like, I'm like, you're safe. Like, it's cool. But, I mean, if there are any gay friend groups who will have me, I'm available. I'm a free agent.

We will actually host a competition for you and Ian. Yeah. I would love that. I would love to have that. Kat, you can come in too. Yeah, I feel like I told you, you were already in. Okay, go, go, go. You don't have any.

There's no hurdles for you. I just don't know anything about. about like euphoria or like You think euphoria is our thing? That's how far out of the loop I am. What goes on in that school is not of my fucking business. I love Billy Eichner, but I didn't see the movie. Okay, let's switch gears really quickly and talk about something

I'm sure all of you have opinions about, but the media and bisexual's representation in the media. Does it exist? And if it does, is it good? We had that one show by Desirey Akvon to bisexual. That was the win, right? When was that? Like, was it like almost 10 years ago?

Wow. You guys, you guys remember the bisexual? Oh, man, yeah, that was. Our biggest representation in media is the bisexual manifesto. And it's like, truly, talk about erasure. Like, is it streaming somewhere? Yeah, it was on, I think it was Hulu or, uh, it was actually a really good show. She's a great, she directs a lot of TV now.

Oh, hey, shout out. She's very talented. But, like, that's how rare it is that when, it happened, I was like a thing. Yeah, yeah. Think about us. But it's almost always women. Like, almost always women.

Like, I sold a show to HBO with Issa Ray about black, I mean, well, me specifically, but about bisexual dating. And I won't talk about why it never came out. But, like, that's, even that was like such a big deal that, like, a male point of view on that thing could even exist. And it's still, like, it hardly. Do you think Issa did a, did you like what Insecure did with Langston's character in that arc? Yeah, I think that was part of how me and, like, Issa ended up, like, kind of connecting on the idea in the first place of like, I see, I like, because it was honest about Yvonne's perspective on him.

I was like, yeah, that's exactly what happens. This is, like, you like a woman. You feel like you're, you always have to come out over, like, you're never done, right? Like, if you're gay, you come out and then, like, you're, you're, like, you're. You don't have to keep telling people for the most part. Yes and no. Yes and no. Like the coming out process is pretty...

I mean, like, once you've, like, at this point in your life, you don't... Well, yes, because I'm famously gay. Right. I've made a career out of it, so everybody knows about me. But, like, if you, like, find yourself, you're like, you come out and you, a lot of times you leave home. You go, like, move to L.A. or New York, and you, like, you get to live amongst people who are, you know, a community to you. Sure. And then...

Yeah, but I feel like there's a lot of markers with gay men. It's, like, clearly, like, you can gay... And then for bisexuals, it's like, well, now I've got to get a septum ring. Show my ankles all the time. In LA, if you're a white woman, you're bisexual. Yeah. There's still a lot of women who don't necessarily like or would date you. So if you meet them and they don't know and they're into you because like you give off very masculine straight energy and then you have to like, you're like, oh man, I'm starting to like this person.

But that whole time you're thinking like this could fall apart at like today, next week. And how far do I want to go into this before this person, like, knows what they're getting themselves into kind of thing? And that's kind of always the game of, like, figuring out that timeline of when. Yeah. What about you, Kat? Is there a bisexual in the media that was my presentation for you? For me, it was Samantha from Sex and the City.

Because despite everything that, I, that show has not aged well. I think we can all agree, not aged well. Very poorly. But her character specifically, I thought, was, like, very evolutionary. given the time. And she said, she said a quote something like, in the future there's not going to be gay straight by. We're all just going to be like one gender and like having sex with each other.

Okay. The woke mind virus done got you. It got me. But I remember watching that when I was what, like 14, 15 years old and was like, whoa, that didn't even cross my mind. But it was like very much, oh, that's how I'm going to live my life in that way. I mean, I'm not going to live my life like Samantha all the time. But, you know, I thought that she was very, yeah, woke, one unquote, that time period.

Wow. I don't know if anyone on a podcast has ever described Samantha as woke before that. Here we are. We're bisexual. Yeah. Yeah, is she officially, does she come out as bisexual on the show? Do you remember? Samantha, she's a lesbian for a little bit.

And then she's a lesbian multiple times, I think, on the show. But she never comes out. She never identifies what her sexuality is. Gotcha. So she leaves that pretty ambiguous. I've been told in terms of media, I'm too, like, I'm not like the right kind of bisexual. And that's interesting. What does that mean?

I know what they're talking about with women when they say that. Like, it conjures a picture. I think, like, Kate, you sort of alluded to it in L.A. But what is the, like, prototypical bisexual bisexual man, do you think? I don't know. I think I may be too brash or may have been too brash or, like, in your face about it or, like, too. sexual or like I don't know

I gotta tell you Ian in my experience bisexual men you are not far off it's a lot of like guys in Metallica shirts who look like they skateboard who have a bunch of tattoos who are very masked presenting

who like you know have pink socks let's say something about cats one little detail all these tattoos yeah I think it's not just the sleeve tattoo

it's all of it put together you guys. That makes you I thought I was doing this for me. No, no, no. We live in a simulation and your sim was programmed to be bisexual in that way. Do I look like the bisexual woman? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You can smell the Berkeley all over. What the hell? This is smell of Berkeley. Nobody wants that. Nobody wants that. You smell like you just walked a dog with a woman named Shannon. Hey, not too far off. So. It was a guinea pig. This is something.

thing I think a lot of people think about before entering into a relationship with a bisexual person and it may or may not be fair but when you are in a relationship with some one gender and you are I'm assuming most of you are monogamous Ian I don't know

and you're monogamous is there a part again you're you seem like you were at the fucking eagle getting sucked off I don't know what you're I seem I am like very like sexual I just I want to yes I am monogamous you want to be taken care of.

You want to be taken care of. Sexual. Is there any part of you, though, that will feel like you are not honoring another part of yourself or you will feel like you are wanting something that is innate in you? And again, like, people think that. But whether or not it's true, I don't know. No, I mean, I feel like if I've gotten to a point where I'm going to enter into a relationship with you, then it's because I want to be with you.

Like, when I'm single, like, now, like I look at everybody and everything and I'm like yeah like anybody can get it but like well nice raise the bar a little bit don't leave the door open too white

not not not it just about anybody yeah but the when I'm with I mean the last three people I've dated were women I haven't dated a man in a long time but I don't use it you lose it by the way you gotta suck a dick

in the next two weeks it's like sag I don't know. Did my benefits expect for you? Oh, fuck. What about my co-pay? Nope. No, nothing.

All right. Yeah, I mean, it's been a while. But when I'm in those relationships, it's because, like, the sexual part of it is not so connected to my identity in that way where I'm like, ah, like, it's just another feature. Yeah. It's just another feature. It's like, I would have loved to have married, you know, someone not six inches

taller than me. But, you know, he is. But, you know, it's just a feature. It's just another feature, ultimately, I think. I mean, they're definitely, they're, they're so different. Like, if you're with a woman or a man, like, the general disposition of those relationships are so different that you, you don't really, or I don't really find myself going, like, man, I really wish, like, you're so amazing. But I just want to like, I would love to fuck that dude over there. It's, like, so bad.

because like I got the itch. Like I just need to get like stress like that doesn't really happen. Hmm. Because you get something. They satisfy something in you that is sort of bigger than just the sexual attraction part of it. I think, at least for me. Kat, do you lean? Do you feel like you would miss a dude's touch being thrown around if you end up with a woman?

Yeah, maybe probably. I don't know. I think so. I think I would. I'm not very good at monogamy, though. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, I'm not the best person for the job. But I love women.

And like I love, like I said, I love, like, I think it's really beautiful and they're super soft and lovely. But yeah, I like to be the power of a guy. That's so, it's so crazy to me that you have the opportunity to opt out and all of you have chosen to surround yourself with men at times. Yeah. So crazy. I was not after my last thing. Oh, yeah. Really want to be with guys.

Yeah, that was like my 20s, the last time I was with the guy. Okay, we get it. Well, I dated the guy, and I think I liked him. He was like, I made him breakfast in bed, and he was like, what are you doing? I was like, why did surprise you? He was like, well, I didn't ask. And I was like, men are trash. He seemed, that seems especially trashy.

I can't imagine a gay guy who wouldn't like breakfast in bed. It's so gay. I know. I'm just saying things now. I mean, it's also. not for like not for not for not wanting or trying like I just have an interest I always felt like I have an interesting like experience with men either dating or like in like club settings and all those kind of things where when you walk in the room and you're six foot seven like people just start

touching me yeah like it just becomes like it becomes its own thing I've had people literally walk up and just kiss me like like like I like like literally like I don't even like what just happen. In the gay community, I contact his consent. I've been to points out of park. Can I say, dude,

the one time I did go to, like, a gay bar and, like, decided to, like, dance. It was so, I, I, like,

these guys were, like, dancing around. I was like, wow, I feel like myself. And then this guy just, like,

went up and, like, kissed some guy and, like, grabbed him. And the guy pushed him off. And I was like, are you all right? Do you need help?

He's like, that's Mark. I was like, Oh, my God. I'm out of my element. That is the biggest indictment of our community I've ever heard in this podcast. It's, it's fine as long as it's Mark. I know.

That old scamp. We're sort of getting to the end here. And I'm so, I really appreciate you guys talking about this, by the way, because I have, like, intentionally asked some of these, like, dumb questions about the experience of being bisexual. But what you were going to say? I was just going to say, in the gay community for women, it's so different in that, like, where guys, I feel like there's a lot. lot more assertion. Like women, when I flirt with a woman, I just don't, I'm like, hey, hey, you know, how are you? Like, you're so pretty. And it could easily go platonic. Like, there's a weird

line. There's eye contact. I think the eye contact is like, I'm gay. Like, I'm into you, you know? But I've like, I think I've missed a lot of signs with women. We're a little bit more like passive or gentle because we don't want to freak each other out and be like, oh, I like you. I like you. like I met someone yesterday she was a flight attendant and she was really lovely and she's like oh so they're paid to be nice to you cats

that's what I thought but she gave me her number and she's like I want to see you again that was for the medallion it was a survey but yeah I just think that like where I don't know if you would get that in like a

two women that are like oh that's just Shannon you know I think that's why I'm kind of drawn more to women because it is kind of a dance and it is less scary. Yeah, I mean, dude, I've shown up to guys' apartments at 3am and they've answered the door naked. Yeah, yeah. Like, come on, let's do this. I'm like, I'm a person.

I think that's why it's hard to make friends just like straight up in those environments because it's so sexually charged that like sometimes I'm just like, hey, I'm just looking to like broaden my like friend group and horizon and have a more diverse group of friends. friends like all my friends are straight then go to a fucking gay book club trava are there it's well i learn about your secret book there but it's usually though like you you make friends through like work you make clear friends through work because if you go to those environments people were kind of just looking and like there's a certain percentage of your your queer friends who might have been people that you hooked up with at one point in time then they just kind of slated

until the friend zone and like that kind of thing happened but um I'm like I'm open to any like if you want to like blow me in the bathroom fine but if you also want to be my friend like I'm open to that too if you want to do both some of my best friendships have led from situations exactly like that and I think um you build a strong foundation and you you get a very strong

building unshakable unshakable friendships oh what was the last question I was going to ask you guys before we go oh this is this is this is how I wanted to end. Not stereotypes about being bisexual, but in talking about bi-arasure, what is one thing about the experience of being by you would erase if you could? One thing you experience. I think the shame around it. Do you think there's more shame around being bisexual than around being gay? I think like what Ian said in the beginning where you're kind of made fun of because you're in this like middle ground.

So you feel shame because you're like, I guess I'm the punching bag of sexuality in my experience. Whereas I don't know. I think that when you're gay, it's almost easier in my head because you're like, this is this binary path where I can just be this thing. I will say I don't think I've ever heard someone say about a gay person. Oh, he's just being gay for attention.

That's it. Like I don't think that's like no one goes full tilt gay just for attention. I don't think. I mean, there are allies, sure, but like, that is a part of the experience that I think where we vastly differ is like, trust me, people believed I was gay. It feels like if you're gay, it's like, you're ears and eyes and. But yeah, if you're gay, you're like, oh, I'm going to be, you know, I'm going to the NFL. When you're by, you're like, I think I'm going to dabble in football for a while. And people are like, why don't you take this more seriously and get drafted? And you're like, but my dad doesn't want that for me. I've wished so many times I could get like kicked in the head.

at like a glory hole or like an orgy and be like, yes, this is the one thing that I like and not this like wishy-washy thing of like, I think I would maybe erase or get rid of, yeah, the shame is like huge, but also just the, maybe that like sense of longing of like, what am I? Like I wish I knew. I wish I was just one thing. I really, you know, I don't have self-hatred, but I just like, man, it would just be so much easier.

And I think that's why I like relationships, because I am with that person. But, you know, to the point earlier, you know, it's, it's, there, there are not pangs of desire, but like thoughts of like, oh, I kind of miss this thing or whatever. And I just like, I'm just caught up between do I want my one and only person or do I want my one and only sexuality? I just wish that I didn't have this other thing that pulls me from just being. quote unquote, normal in the sense of being one or the other. Being lost in that middle ground is very much.

Sometimes it can be, you know, I'm being dramatic, but, you know, I'm embracing it. A malicious experience. Oh, my God. I agree. There's hope for you yet. Oh, thank you. Anyway, it's Trayvon. I think you kind of nailed it with like the shame thing.

But I think I would, there's nothing about the experience to me that I like don't like. Like, there's things that people react to that I don't like. But I love, like, to your point where you kind of feel like you want to find that one, like, thing. I love the, like, broad spectrum of possibilities. Like, I love the idea of knowing, like, love can come from anywhere. Like, all those things can come from so many different places. What an exciting life. Sex can come from anywhere.

Literally anywhere. It really feels, I wish I could, like, like. like transmute the experience to people of what it feels like to look at the world and or to your point actually I wish I knew what it felt like to look at the world and see one gender and be like that's my thing because I don't know that at all like I don't

I can't comprehend the idea of a singular level of attraction to anything like whether it's gay, straight, male, female, like anything in between like it all just feels like how I connect to it is where I fit in. Can I add something? Yeah, I think you just so eloquently said that I was trying to like stumble and murmur out.

But also the idea of other people putting on what we are, oh, you're not this, you're that way. It's actually you're not bisexual, you're pan. Well, bisexual discounts a trans experience because it only means two. And you're actually this and that. And so I've just been like, yeah, I'm fucking queer, like whatever. Because I like it all.

I like everyone. I like trans men, women. And I hate when people start to chirp up and be like, well, actually who you are and what you are, it actually discounts this experience. I'm like, no, it doesn't. What the fuck you talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's become very, like, over-articulated, I feel like. And I don't, maybe in the past five to seven, where people, like, you have to be, in this community, you have to be this or you have to be this.

And you're like, I'm just kind of like, I'm loving everyone here. Oh, you're pan then. You're like, no, I'm. When you paint, do you use? one color? No, I'm a pallet of many colors. Put me on your brush and smear me around. All over my face.

Okay. Yeah, that is, it is, the thing is, the reason I think there are so many bisexual jokes and stand-up specifically is because it's this cycle where in order for you not to be erased and for people to know that you're bisexual and to

assert that as no, I'm not a gay guy, I'm actually bisexual. you have to be, you have to be talking about it a lot. All the time. You know? Yeah. And so I think what happens is people, this confirmation bias, the only bisexuals they know

are bisexual are the ones who are talking about it. Yeah. They're like vegans. Yeah. And that, and it's totally fair to, by the way. But like, I think that's where people get this idea of like, oh, you know, shut up, you know, they're so annoying, blah, blah, blah. And yeah, I am, I am pledging today that I will not.

make a joke about a bisexual unless it is not it's funny do it do it do it I'll make a pledge today I'm going to get out of my feeling any other pledges before we go I'm going to pledge to

baby date a woman next hell yeah that's my pledge get at it I'm going to get at it download field now I've got it okay I've been paying for the uplift the last three days I've been here Traylon, what are you pledged today?

I think I'm going to pledge to find me some queer friends to hang out with now that... Metallica. Yeah, right? Like, a broad spectrum of favorites and likes and interests, all sorts of things. Yeah, I got to say, like, it's not all drag race and, like, yes, queens in my group of gay friends. I think you would fit in actually quite well. I'll invite you over for a game night sometime. You're in L.A.

Yeah, I live, like, 10 minutes from here. Okay, I didn't need that. I really don't have a friend group. I will move here, Joel. Honestly, I'll commute. I know, like, I, I, I know you don't have friends. I want to set you up. I want to sit you all up. That would be so great. The gender that I think is appropriate for me. So listen, guys, we didn't want to do one today because the conversation just went and went and was so interesting.

But if you have a relationship question that you would like me and my guest to tackle, us a voicemail at 213-379-9-8-51. That's 213-379-9-8-5-1. And we might answer it on an upcoming episode. Also, if you have text exchanges or emails or any sort of correspondence with a crush or a person you can't stop obsessing over and want our help to understand what the fuck they're talking about. You can send screenshots to intimacy coordinator at gmail.com. And we might look at your texts on an upcoming episode. I think that's it. Okay. Listen, we got your pledges. I think that was a good way to wrap up the show, no need to belabor it. But Ian, tell the people where they can find you and what you're doing these days. You can find me on Instagram Ianimal 69,

Ianfinance.com for all my tour dates on the road till 2027, and I'm loving it. Ian doing our guy doing our jobs. I go to different towns. People teach me I don't do their jobs, and I do it with them. It's like dirty jobs. It's daytime insomniac. I'm having a fucking blast with it.

And the podcast is Beanie him, Jordan. Oh, yeah. Amazing. I am at Trayvon on pretty much every platform. Whoa. You got in early. Girl.

Some of them I got in early. Some of them I bought. Okay. Well, thank you for being a friend about that. But, yeah, I'm at Trayvon on everything. I am currently about to direct the film Razor Blade Tiers for Apple. Very cool. Adaptation of a novel, a very gay novel, very queer novel.

You should all read. by S.A. Cosby. Let's celebrate that. A lot of violence as well. Very fun. And other things that I can't. Like the book. Like the book.

We're still waiting. Kat, where can the people find you? What are you doing these days? The people can find me on Instagram at Catbird Comedy. Also online. Catbird comedy. Got in early. Comedy with two wives.

Yeah, and hyphen. No. And then I have a new podcast I'm launching next week. It's just called Catbird Pod. So, yeah. Love that. Love a low concept. Love concept.

Why do we have to have all these bells? Look around. What are we doing? Catbird. This should be catbird. That's fantastic. Thank you guys so much for being here and talking and being so real and raw and honest with me. This has been intimacy coordinator.

If you like what you heard, please give us a rating and review. Only five stars or below. even if you have notes, I don't read any of the other ones. So you've heard it many, many times. Anyways, goodbye.