Bad Dates with Jameela Jamil - Sexy Clowns (w/ Natalie Palamides and Courtney Pauroso)

Episode Date: August 24, 2026

Two of comedy’s most fearless clowns join Joel to talk vulnerability and silliness, on stage, and in the bedroom. Beware: cringey dating stories ahead.     Send in your own listener questions by emailing us at [e-mail] or leave us a voicemail at ‪[phone]‬‪. Subscribe to SmartLess Media on YouTube for full episodes, and follow @intimacycoordinatorshow on Instagram and TikTok for clips. Joel Kim Booster: @ihatejoelkim · Loot Season 3 (Apple TV+), Fire Island(Hulu), Psychosexual (Netflix) Guests Natalie Palamides — Voice of Esther on Netflix’s Haunted Hotel, Edinburgh Comedy Award Best Newcomer winner for Laid, and Total Theatre Award winner for Nate — A One Man Show, now streaming on Netflix. Courtney Pauroso — star of Vanessa 5000 on Dropout and creator of Gutterplum. Produced by Brian Baldinger and Anne Harris. Associate Producers are Maddie McCann and Katherine Calligori. Editor is Jacob Vaus. Executive Producers are Will Arnett, Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, Robert Cohen, Richard Korson and Bernie Kaminski. Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Intimacy Coordinator ad-free. Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Oh, hello, hello, and welcome to intimacy coordinator. I am your host, Joel Kimbooster, as per usual, and I am officially certified to safely guide you, my listeners and my guests through love and intimacy in all its forms. Today I have two guests who have made entire careers out of being willing to look completely insane in front of a room full of strangers. We talk about it all. We talk about what it's like to be a clown trying to find love, what it's like to be a clown who's in love. and does humor have a place in the bedroom? We'll find out on today's episode of Intimacy Coordinator. I'm very excited about the two young women in front of me today. She is an Edinburgh best newcomer and total theater award winner.

That is an actual award, I want to say. It is not just like she's a total theater award winner. The woman behind Nate on Netflix and Laid, you can watch and you can catch her latest. We're on tour now. It's Natalie Palomides. Yeah, thank you. And then she's the star of Vanessa 5,000 on Dropout, the creator of gutter plum, and you'll see her in the upcoming series broadcast.

It's Courtney Perosa. Hi. Hello. Thanks for having us. Thank you so much for being here. Now, this is a very special episode. This is sort of what we're calling the clown episode, if you will. Now, Natalie, I know that's a comfortable description for you.

Courtney, have you been described as a clown before? I know you're very character, very physical, very in your body. I'm embedded in the world. But, you know, Natalie likes to, she's very reverent of labeling yourself as a clown. And I understand that too. But I feel like I've kind of just latched onto it for branding purposes. And it is what it is. Well, no, no, no, we're not going to do that.

You are just as much of a clown as Natalie. It's actually harder for me to self as a clown. But yeah, I've learned to claim it. Embrace it. Why is it hard for you. Because you're taught in clown classes that it's like, you know, there's only one person every generation that is a true clown. But I think Courtney is actually more of a true clown than me.

Okay. No, we're certainly not going to get into this cycle because we could be here all day. You're the true clown. No, no, you're the true clown. That's lovely. So in the spirit of clowns, I guess, in comedy, the icebreaker that we have for you today that we would just kick things off to the discussion

of what it's like to be a clown in love is, have you ever used humor to flirt and failed? And generally, and barring any, you know, unspecific answer to that question, is generally, do you find that humor in the past has worked, or in the present, if you're single, has worked for you as a sort of flirtation device. Yeah, I would say like probably nothing ever works for me.

No, wait, what is your status currently? I'm currently single. I've been celibate since 2022. Okay. So it's pretty sad right now. But not, you know, I could go out there and get some, you know, the Biden administration got you down bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Two years in, I quit. Big time, big time. But, no, I just have, like, very specific crushes. And, you know, I learned on Instagram probably my ADHD makes me hyper-focused on certain people. But, yeah, yeah, I do. I have a lot of examples for your question. Please.

How about, I mean. Well, no, we'll start with you and then we'll go over to recording. Yeah, in my most recent memory, I was at a film festival, and I saw somebody's film, and they weren't at the festival. So I messaged them on social media and I said like, hey, I loved your film so much. Like congratulations. There was a lot of big laughs. He had responded saying like he hadn't actually watched the film because he couldn't stand to watch himself.

And he told me to hit him up if I was ever in New York. And my friend was like, oh, that's good. Like trying to keep the conversation going. And so I thought it'd be funny if I made, since he said he'd never seen the. the film if I made up a part that was in the film and say like can't you believe that happened like that was pretty crazy because it was like a doc you okay that is objectively funny I think you so I thought it'd be fun like kind of prank him and I was like can you believe that part where that woman like strangled the the chicken and he just yeah never responded

he never responded yeah and then I realized like maybe he thought I'm like when I said strangle the chicken I was saying choke the chicken or something. He thought I was eluding to like drinking a lot or something. I won't lie to you, Natalie. When you said strangle the chicken, I did say, I did think of myself, is this a double entendre? Is she trying to go there? He was like, he was visiting this lady like on her farm and they made like a supper together. And yeah.

So anyways, yeah, I kind of, I biffed it on that one. That's tough. I thought it could have been fun if he had believed like something outlandish happened in this, you know. Yeah. And then you get the. relief moment of being able to be like, JK, gotcha. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I'm even like, am I blushing right now?

No. Oh, okay. I can't tell. I feel like hot. I'm like so embarrassed. But honestly, it's like good to lead with how you are. Yeah. You don't want to get in too deep and be like, this person doesn't get me. That is a full like rule of dating, I think, number one. Lead with who you are. Yeah. Always, always, always.

Thanks, guys. That's a good one. Courtney, do you have anything? I know you are currently, you're married. I'm married. In general, it has worked for me, you know? Well, religious. Yeah. I guess we know who the true clown is. I'm general, because you know, you have to like be who you are, but then I was trying to think of like a good story for this. And I feel like I cleared my mind when I got married and that's how I want it to be. So I had a really dig deep. But then I was remembering when we were living together in Silver Lake. And I, I DM'd a celebrity who had started following me because I got cocky.

And I was like, you know, when you're like, life is falling apart and it makes you magnetic. Absolutely. What do you think is going on right now? Yeah. So I was like having one of those eras. And I noticed like a, I'm not going to say his name on the podcast, but a very famous musician had started following me. And I didn't have like any followers or anything at the time. So I like

How do you think they found you? I think friend of a friend Or like who knows So you're friends She's very popular in the scene Yeah No I was Should I whisper?

We can bleep it I remember If you want to Okay Yeah Please bleep it We will We definitely will

It was Maybe they'll like this And somebody's gonna lip read you Oh no Yay! Okay Actually that actually does track Because

He's around He's around You know He's like around Like you know he's like kind of big but like weirdly accessible and like you know when somebody's so famous like they're not even a real person to you which is not good no you know but I did the thing I did I sent him a DM and I was like I heard you hooked up with my bleep that too because that's real and and I'm jealous

and he said great first DM and I was like you know he's like whatever nice he clocked it but then I just started, you know, I'm not like really aggressive when flirting, but because he seemed so not real to me, I would like just kept like DMing him like weird stuff and I was like, fly me to New York, you know, like, or you know, whatever, like come to Palm Springs, like totally annoying him. He did end up like kind of messaging me about like a weird fantasy that I was like, is this a joke or like not? And like, yeah, I was trying to figure out how to like respond without being like, you know, He was like, ha ha, I got you, or whatever. Anyway, long story short, he ended up unfollowing me.

And I was like, he cannot remember this. I ran into him weirdly at a bar one time, and he totally remembered. No way. Because you know, this person listeners is, I would say, pretty massive. Probably gets, and is a person who probably invites DMs for, like, it has the energy that invites these kinds of DMs from people all the time. And for this person to remember your DM, that's impressive. That's saying something. But I was wish that he didn't.

You know, I wanted to be like, I'm different now. But, you know, I was like trying to be funny and it just was like too much. How did he mention that he remembered? He was like, Courtney, like, whatever. I think we had talked to. Or whatever. But it was like, I was like looking at him with like fear. Like, don't, please don't remember, you know.

Oh, my gosh. He brought up that you guys had a conversation He like kind of threw it away So like outsiders wouldn't have known Like the full context of like what had happened And it wasn't like yeah I hate it when people do that

When they know that they have all the power In that context Because they're the one who unfollowed you You're the one who embarrassed yourself And then like the polite thing to do Is to pretend like they have never met you don't remember, like, don't bring it up. But to bring it up in an oblique way is just specifically there to make you feel like.

Yeah, I think it was definitely a power move, although it wasn't cruel the way he did it. It was almost like, maybe he was trying to be like, yeah, like, I remember you. I don't know, but yeah, definitely I pulled that memory out and I am. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. In our generation, when people in real life are trying to be funny and flirt, it's so, it often goes to negging. Yeah. Like, it's so often goes back to, like, we revert back to that thing of, like, we're mean to the person that we like.

Yeah. A lot of times, like, I don't like that and I don't need it. Oh, my God, the number of, like, the way game and then neg is crazy. But the trouble that I can't think of, like, I can think of, like, kind of a specific story, but the thing that I always do, do to this day, in fact, this happened recently, is I'll be in DMs or somebody, and I'll, I'll have the tone of voice of like, put it away. Like, ooh, like you, like, we'll have to figure out how you'll make it up to me later. And then, like, and then they'll be like, okay. And I'll be like, yeah, so when we see each other next, you're going to X, Y, Z. And then, and then again,

it's left on red. And I'm like, oh, Marina. Like, because in my head, I'm like, because you realize, then I read the messages back, and I'm like, if I'm not talking like this, it's literally like, I sound psychotic. You need to be able to hear it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You really need to be able to hear it. Maybe voice notes is the way. I mean, I think that's what happened with my strangling. The chicken thing is like, you know, if he could have heard, you know, the intonation, it would have killed.

Exactly. Would have killed. He would have known immediately he wasn't sexual. It was just a prank. Even the next day I was reading it back and I was like, this makes no sense. I should have thought of a better lie. Well, and then the problem, especially with negging culture, I think, like this happened to me semi recently, like a year and a half ago, I was on Grindr talking to this younger person, 24, 25.

And it had gotten to the point. And I was like, hey, man, I'm old. It's too late. Like, this isn't going to happen. I got to go to bed. And he said, and we had developed this like shady, funny rapport. or like we were being a little like banter, banter, exactly.

And he was like, okay, boomer, ha-ha. And I was like, ha-ha, well, at least I still look younger than you. Oh. And he was like, ha-ha, well, yeah, adult acne scars will do that for a person. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. This is beyond yes and. Like, you just took it from a place of like funny banter

to zeroing in on my deepest insecurity. Yeah, but also you have beautiful skin. I know, but you know what, it is, it is a thing of people have, the online is forever, and there have been many pictures of me over the years, pre and post-acutane. And then of course, this person, the entire next day, I didn't block him on the app or anything. I just stopped talking to him. And the entire next day, I was like, so are you fucking me? When are you coming over to fuck me?

I thought we were fucking up. Why are you coming over? And I was like, oh, this is a lesson learned for you is that you need to calibrate. Like, you cannot just like, just because you have the power to, to know what is the most hurtful thing you can say to a person is like, baby, we were like, we were play fighting and you brought out like, you, you loaded the weapon. Yeah.

That would cut anybody pretty deep. I mean, that's like, yeah. That brings up like so many deep, you know, I'm sure like stuff from childhood and whatever middle school or, you know. Yeah. I like teasing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Has to be with love.

But not, yeah, yeah, that's like the main. You have to know me. You like, that's the thing is like, I can certainly handle like a little bit of teasing. Like when my husband does it, like, it's like he knows. Oh, yeah. Congratulations. Thank you very much. He, um, he knows exactly.

He knows me better than anyone in the world. I know him better than anyone in the world. And we know what are the areas in which like are safe. Yeah. You know? And if you don't know the person, you don't know what's off limits. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's such a crazy gamble to go in.

But I think you would know to never like comment on. any sort of scarring. Yeah, physical stuff is usually pretty. And I think, you know, it's funny because I do think that, like, I don't see really, like, objectively hot people as human a lot, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I do think, like, oh, I can, like, talk about your... He dehumanized you because you're so hot.

Exactly. But, like, for me, I'm like, oh, I can talk about this guy's hairline because look at the rest of him. But it's, like, maybe there's a reason he was. maybe the rest of him is as a result of the hairline. Yeah. And also he should just go to Turkey, right? It's pretty easy to fix now. It's only $5,000, I heard.

I heard my friend who is bald recently went to Turkey not to get the surgery, which is going to Turkey. And everyone on the plane on the way to Turkey was like, your life is about to change. Just you wait on your way back. He made the trip and didn't go... I mean, I think he's pretty happy being bald. It's not a complex for him.

Sometimes it's a good look for certain people too. I think it can be. I love a bald man. I really do. Do you imagine the rock with hair? No. It looks so weird. In fact, like, I would rather...

I'd look weird on him. This is a, maybe, this is going to offend some people, but I would, I prefer a man with no hair to long hair. And listen, there are plenty of attractive men with long hair. I just think that even when you are attractive, if lift the long hair, you would be even more attractive with short hair. Interesting. Jason Mamoa's side. I think Jason Momoa is maybe the exception to the movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't, yeah, I don't

know if I have, I think my preference would be long hair. Really? Yeah. But I think, yeah, there's all different kinds of hot. Give me, Corey stole over Fabio any day. Really? Oh, I'm Fabio all the way. Wow. Yeah. Good thing we're not in competition. Yeah, yeah, good.

So yeah, I wanted to bring you guys in and talk a little bit about the experience of being. Because, like, we're obviously every guest that comes in here most of the time is a comedian. Sure. But you guys are a very specific kind of comedian. You're very, like, I think, like, when people see me on stage, obviously they're not getting like a 100% 360 perspective on who I am. Actually, it is still a character to a certain extent. But they are getting a better idea, I think, of who I am than when they see. Nate, you know?

Right, right. Or when they see Vanessa, you know. And so, like, I guess, like, when, Natalie now and Vanessa, when you were dating, like, was it difficult when people would come to see you and your work and then try and square it with who you are off stage too? Like, is it an easy transition for you guys in the dating sphere to go from, like, people know me from my work?

And then getting to know me as a real person. Yeah. For me, I mean, we both have such different energies in those two shows. I think Nate is such like an intense masculine energy and like there's a lot of like aggression in that show. I think it is harder for people who I've dated to take that in maybe. But most of the time, like if they're the right person for me to date, I think they think it's. funny. But yeah, nobody ever like hits on me after me. You know, like nobody's like, I want to, you know, Mac on that. Actually, a lot of people had come up to me, not a lot of people, there's been a couple people that have come up to me after shows, Nate specifically, and said, I thought you were actually a man until you ripped off your dick at the end. And listeners, if you haven't checked out on Nate on Netflix yet, I have to say it is a complete work of genius and the prosthetics alone.

I mean, it is really one of the most remarkable things I've ever seen. I'm very lucky to I've seen it live. And yeah, so definitely check it out and you'll understand what she means by ripping her dick off. Yeah. Context is important there. But I would say to these people like, what about my boobs, you know, my little boobs? And they're like, well, some men have little boobs. And I'm like, that's true, I guess.

Yeah. A couple of these people were in like the front row. Yeah. So, yeah, it was just strange. They didn't notice I was in drag. But yeah, how about for you, Coco? I mean, your character, Vanessa's really hot. Yeah, that I was about to say.

Yeah, well, I mean, like, she has the trappings of hotness, you know, which is, like, fun. Title of up. Trappings of hotness. Which is fun. I mean, my other show, like, there are sexy moments, but I, like, start out looking like a weird little cartoon boy, even though my character's a girl. Yeah. I don't know. So I think as like a kind of shy person sometimes, like weirdly I'm able to reveal parts of myself like through the clown characters that like maybe wouldn't come out earlier, you know? Like so there's something to that. I mean, I will say I kind of kind of got my husband because I really wanted him to see my show, Vanessa. Oh, really? Do you know that?

I thought he liked you prior to that. Well, we did. We met and like liked, like, we met and I had like a crush on him. And he had a crush on me, but we didn't even have each other's numbers. So he, my husband is our friend Max's brother. He's the brother of a clown. He's a non-clown. But he's like, you know.

Clown-a-Jason. In a very close way. I like just really had a strong premonition about him when I met him in these like group scenarios. And when I was doing my show. before I went to Edinburgh, I texted Max and was like, hey, so are the Baumgartens coming to the show tonight? Like, because I wanted Sam to come, and he did. Watch him just bring his parents.

He's like, yes, we are. I know, right? I mean, now that I know, now that I know, Corby Baumgartens, sorry to name check my mother-in-law. She's amazing. She's amazing. And she's a big supporter, a lot of clowns in the family. So she has to be.

She's a very artsy lineage. Yeah. Yeah. Her whole family is artist. Sorry. No, no, no, no. It's a great family. And I'm like, should I have name checked?

My mother-in-law, is that bad? But she's the best. Anyway, but I, like, I wanted him to come because I wanted him to see that part of me or something. And I feel like there's like a moment in the show where I kind of like, which doesn't apply now where I kind of like strip everything away. and I really wanted him to hear that part of it, and it worked. Really? I, like, sing a song. She talks about wanting a family, and it's really heartfelt.

Yeah. And it's beautiful. I wanted, I don't know, it did work. Yeah. Got him! Yeah, you're so pretty impressive, too, like, so much. I mean, all the comedy is so smart and, like, you know, a lot of it's set and rapid fire, and there's, like, a lot of impressive physicality that you did as well.

Ladies, ladies, once again, we cover this up top. This cannot descend into just a compliment circle. But I think like you're sexy when you do neat. I agree. You are. I mean, you are. You're amazing. And it's like,

cool to see you do that. Do you think that straight men find funny women sexy? Especially funny women in the way that you two are funny in the like an extremely physical sort of clownish way? I would have to say no, based on my experience. I mean, I think it maybe takes somebody secure because it's intimidating to see a woman so embodied and, like, fearless, I think. Especially this one, you know. Yeah, she's a peace. Yeah, not good luck.

But I do like, I mean, I was, you know, I was acknowledging how impressive your work is because it's like you do want to impress people that you have a crush on or something. You want them to, like, see your work. But then, you know, I always, like, you know, want them to, like, watch my special and be impressed or something. But then it kind of, like, always sort of backfires or something. Well, I don't think it will for the right person. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also, like, my, like, performer self does not, like, really factor in our day to day either. Yeah, you know.

So different from. Yeah. Like. Who you are on stage. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Has anyone ever like specifically cited your work as a reason why they don't, they can't do it?

No, no, they haven't. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, guys that I've dated have all said that they like my work. So a couple guys had said they were admitted that they were jealous. Really? Yeah, isn't, I know. Are they also comedians as well? One was a comedian and one was a musician.

And the musician was jealous? We don't even do the same thing. He was weird. This is such an indictment of male for children. I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you ever get, did you get a lot of, like, queer attention after date? Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, the queers are lined up out the door. And there's not a shred of buy. No, no, I'm, my friend Chad calls me barely by. Like, I do find women attractive. But I just feel like I can't claim that. that because I don't want to commodify like queerness. So I'm, I'm pretty sensitive.

Like, I have so many friends who are gay and like, it, it is like, you know, a very painful experience for a lot of people to come out to their families. And so,

like, I don't want to claim it without having gone through, like, the same struggle, I guess. And like, I haven't eaten box. And I'm like,

once I do that, I will gladly, like, say I'm, but I'm fine if people, like, call me by but you know I am attracted to women I'm not ashamed to say that but um yeah I've just never eaten box so I just feel like I can't say it let's change that today live on camera

I know that also like people are like you don't have to eat box like to be by like you can no you are princess or whatever but listen like even if you've never acted on it yeah you're just as by yeah as uh the next you know okay yeah I think I just want to be sensitive to like and I I think everyone appreciates that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not that I don't want to claim it. I just, I guess I don't know. There's a fine line, though, between being sensitive and bi-arasure.

Right, right, right. You know, we don't want that. We don't want anyone erased here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not on my podcast. Yeah, I guess I'm by. Great. Yeah, sure.

And we got the scoop. We got the scoop. But I lean hetero for sure. But every once in a while, yeah, a chick will slip in. Literally? No. Listen, I've been celibate, like, I'm also like, I'm not prude, like, I'm like, again, I always tell myself like, I'm not going to talk about this. Anyone who see Natalie Palomedi's work is, no, she's not prude.

Yeah. Very much. But I am very demisexual to where, like, I really need to connect with somebody mentally before I want to do anything with them. That's tough. That's a tough position to be in this day and age. You know, it's like, swiping, like, some people's pictures do nothing for me. me. And then if you look at my list of past crushes, they don't

really look alike. They all sort of look a little disheveled, I would say that's a common thread. But they don't look similar. Huh. Yeah. Vanessa, did you go after the same kind of person when you were dating? No, I like physically like all different

types. What do you want a metal? My husband's very handsome I'll say. Oh. Yeah. All your people you date are very handsome. I think so. But like different Different types and not always like, I don't always go or usually don't go for like a full on like modely type like over, over manicured. And you've done like Mick Jagger style like Ugly Hot in the past as well. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

I love like a like a wild looking person, you know. I would say Sam is classically handsome. Sam is classically handsome. But no, and he, no, he's beautiful. If he's watching. But he's got a little. something else he's got a little something else going on yeah he's got a little genesis but he's very very handsome um yeah would you prefer natalie to be in a relationship with another comedian or would you

do you think that would make it harder for you i need them to be funny they don't have to be a comedian but i need somebody who's like making me laugh you know and yeah usually like i love when somebody makes fun of me but with love yeah yeah yeah my husband's really funny but a non-comedian but like blessing of blessings isn't it it's amazing Like our day to day we're like laughing and he's he teases me. We tease each other, you know. It's the best because I, my husband also makes me laugh more than anybody else in the world. Yeah.

And it's so like uncomplicated and no baggage to it. You know, that's the thing about like hanging out with so many, like I'm sure it's true for you guys to see. Like so many of my friends are comedians. So many friends are in the business. And when you're hanging out socially with all comedians, it does become this thing of like, if someone laughs, it's like, you clock it immediately. Yeah. file it away. You're like,

that person left, that different person didn't laugh at my little bit. I didn't get a ha-ha react on my text, on the chain. Who is ha-ha-reacting and who's not ha-ha-reacting?

We need to really come together as a community and talk about the ha-ha-ha-react. It is ruined lives. I know. Yeah. And totally ruined any discourse, any potential discourse. Like,

the conversation just kind of ends. No, I find the reactions are like a period on the conversation. It's when you want to, stop talking. Yeah. You heart it.

This is totally off topic. What does the exclamation point mean to you? What does the explanation point mean to you? To me it means what the fuck? Oh my God. Mm-hmm. What? Mine is, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's good. But I know people who use it as like a super like, that's what they think, which I find to be completely redundant. Really? That's what the heart is there for. No, no, no, no, no, no. We can be using the emergency signal for super light. Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah. That's confusing. It is, I actually do think that maybe perhaps we need to do, get rid of the exclamation point entirely. I would, yeah, I would vote on that. Because I, it's, it's gotten to the point where it's Tower of Babel. We're all speaking a different language. No one's using, no one, there's no universal idea of what it means.

Yeah. And it must come to an end. And there's so much miscommunication through text already. It's like, we don't need another layer of it. a state of the text reaction address. Yes. No, we definitely do. And it's causing a lot of problems for a lot of people. In fact, let me remind everyone listening today. If you are in the midst of a text exchange with someone that you like or crushing with or are dating and you're very confused because it is so confusing what exactly they are saying, then please email us at intimacy coordinator

pot at gmail.com. Email so screenshots of your text exchange, email exchanges, DMs, what have you and we'll dissect it live on air and try and get to the bottom of it. Because you're right. It is an epidemic and it is something that needs to be addressed. Vanessa 5000 is sort of the whole point of it is objectification a little bit. It is a lesson in objectification. It is a comment on objectification. Would you say that's fair?

Yeah. Like I always think about or I guess when I'm making a show, I'm not like thinking too much about the themes while I'm making it. I'm like following impulses and then seeing what works with the audience. But yeah, obviously, like, I am, like, commenting on objectification by, like, participating in it, you know? Like, and part of it is, like, it is also really fun for me to do, you know? And so I think there's maybe, to me, some interesting contradiction there, you know?

But there's definitely stuff there. And also people are allowed to, like, take what they want for it, you know? As with all art. I think your work does naturally lean satire just comes out of you. Yeah, I think so. Or like, you know, sometimes you're making a show. You don't really know what your opinion is, but you're kind of like lobbing up these like contradictions or questions. And there's something there, even if I couldn't like write an essay on it.

Do you think, and this is kind of a dual question for both of you because like you go gross on stage. Yeah. And specifically with just Vanessa, because. I know you have a lot of other characters and a lot of other shows that you've done, but do you think that there's more pressure or do you think it may be easier as a woman to be hot on stage versus gross on stage? Do you think that has anything to do with your divergent experiences with men in this industry? Possibly.

Yeah. I mean, it's like, I think. for like Vanessa the character it's like a performance of like sexiness but it's like I try to make it a little grotesque and then at other points during the show I like break it and I do really stupid stuff. You subvert it. Yes, yes. I break the expectation but I do try to like set it up so we all know what we're dealing with. How do you control that though? How do you control? Because you we were talking just now about like you don't necessarily ask the audience to take anything specifically away. Like that's not your at your end goal. It's sort of like you're laying it up and then like, you know, however it falls, it falls. But like when you're doing a character that is satirizing objectification in some ways, like, how do you make sure that like the men in the audience, the male gaze doesn't take over? Like, and it be, how do you keep it a comment on objectification and not just straight up objectification? I mean, I am in the power position in that character.

Like when people come to my show, it's like, you're. in my room, I'm controlling the energy. And I think the jokes, in regards to like the jokes that I'm doing with male audience members are like set up to like playfully skewer like the way that we communicate or the way that a man would communicate with like a sex robot. Like, you know, the setup is that she's designed to please. She's going to like laugh at your jokes and tell you what you want to hear. And then it shifts, you know.

So I think, like, I don't care if they're leering at me. You know what I mean? Like, they feel a little scared, too, because, like, it's so sexy. It creates a lot of tension. And I feel like even, like, you know, I lived by jumbos when, you know, for a period of time. And, like, I love going there. And I feel like those women are, like, very powerful, actually. And jumbos to be, for our listeners.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like a Hollywood, like, strip club. Yeah, yeah. But it's like a bikini bar, you know, and like everyone has their like little gimmick. And like I think those women are so powerful, you know? And like you have to just if someone, you know, I've had people like spank me when they weren't supposed to spank me in the audience. But like, you know, I like slapped a guy back and then made it made him feel like, you know,

it's okay. We're even now. But like, fuck you. I'm the boss here. And that's the way it's going to be, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It is tough. I find because, and when I, because I am so open about my sex life on stage and I

mine it a lot for jokes, people at my meet and greets feel very beholden to touch me in ways that I don't appreciate it. I've had guys like put their hands fully down my back of my pants, like during the meet and greet, like during the picture. And it is like one of these weird things that where I think it's because I'm so sex positive and sex forward, they think that it's open season and consent doesn't exist. Yeah. You know what I've started to do? do at my meet and greets now and I shouldn't maybe reveal this live on air but it is like the the antidote to that I have found is as they're approaching me to take the picture I always go hey is it okay if I touch you because then when I introduce like overly aggressive consent

like you know they suddenly they get very like oh that's what the vibe is you know like I have he's asking me if he can even put his arm around me so I probably shouldn't like grab his crotch at the the meet and green yeah um Jesus Mary and Joseph. Do you find the experience, like, because you do go gross mode? Right, right. I mean, kind of, you know, going along with what Courtney said about, like, creating tension, like, to a similar way where she uses, like, sexiness. Or, like, when I'm watching her, I feel, like, so much tension getting created from, like, how sexy it is because, like, people are, I think, intimidated and tantalized at the same time.

and then she can break it with something really stupid. And so like when I'm going super gross or scary or something like that, I am usually using that to break whatever I've set up, to break whatever attention I've set up. Or sometimes you're gross in order to create a lot of tension. But yeah, the more attention you create, the more fun it is to break it. Speaking of tension, Does physical comedy have a place in the bedroom for you?

For anyone? Do you have... Has it ever worked for you in a moment? Maybe only when I'm trying to like piss him off. Like, ha-ha-ha! Got your foreskin! Yeah, no, I mean, yeah, I wouldn't typically bring it into the bedroom unless I was like annoyed with him for doing something, you know.

Yeah. Really? Because I love to make partners laugh, like in the middle of it. Sometimes it is like, because listen, sex is inherently silly in some regard. And I think like sometimes I'm like in the middle of having sex and I'm like, it is crazy what we're doing with our bodies right now. Like what's going in where? I put my mouth where? Like, you're doing this?

And like, and sometimes it, like, it, like, breaks some of the inherent, like, nervousness of sex to just, like, laugh about it. Like, have you ever, this is a real, raw and honest question for both of you. And you do not have to answer honestly, but, like, has a quiff ever happened in the middle of sex? And how do you, do you laugh about it and move on or do you ignore it completely? Yeah. I personally haven't, like, experienced much queef.

Yeah, I haven't had an embarrassing quefe moment. Yeah, I mean, I knew I wouldn't get on the answers from you guys. I'm sure I have, but not like one where I'm like, oh my God. But I mean, I think I like to laugh, you know, like. Yeah. But the laughs now are coming from, like, we're married with a one-year-old, you know? So it's a part of the intimacy. Yeah.

It is, it is, you know? Like, we're parents and sometimes it's like, should we put on Miss Rachel for a second? You know, like he'll be fine, you know? Like, that's kind of, we say we're going to miss Rachel's ass, you know? Oh. But we try to be very sparing with the TV, but, you know, like, you know, anyway. So that's like, I feel like there's, our lives are coming from just the intimacy of, like, being married and, you know, like, we're so domestic, you know, and you have to, like, I guess, I don't know.

So we have fun. I mean, yeah, I think, I feel like there's more, like, for me, like, laughing, like, before and after. And then I try to, I don't know, I feel like I need to. Like, that was real crazy what you tried to pull back there. Yeah, or just like, you know, you're kind of like, I feel like when you're done, the guy's like, and then I'll say something stupid and that's funny, you know, because I feel like they get out of the zone so quickly. Yeah, I mean, obviously you're being playful with, like, your, I was, like, trying to. I was like trying to think, I'm like, when have I been laughing?

Like, you know, it's been so long for me. It's like I got to get the cop webs out from under there. But I remember there was a time where, you know, if I'm like, how my mom doesn't watch this, like, sucking on a D, I would go like, I would go. It's really good. That's a great bit. Just like on the tip of it, like, go. Oh, and what was there was, did you get like a good response from this? Yeah, yeah, he laughed.

Yeah, it was a fun bit. Yeah. It's dangerous. I guess like, and I didn't even think about the context of this is that as I guess like for me, like the gamble of trying to get a guy to laugh and make sure that he knows I'm not laughing at him but laughing with him is a little bit different for me than in your positions when you're like trying to make sure that they know that you're laughing with them and not at them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. You don't want to masculate anybody. Yeah. I mean, Courtney, we used to live together, and I think I was like, I'm pretty loud, I guess.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It was a tiny little. It was a really tiny place. Yeah. Two bedrooms. It was like a little doll house for a grown woman that we lived in. I had no shame.

I think I like I might, yeah, I don't know if I'm like that anymore. Yes, I am. I mean, but I, if my, I don't know if like my, housemate was home, like, I would try to be more, that was so disrespectful of me. Oh, no. Is it, though? Let's talk about it. Is it disrespectful to be as loud as the hell you want to be in normal business hours

during sex if you have a roommate? I guess, like, I thought, like, well, I knew Courtney so well, I'm like she doesn't care. Yeah. If I was a different person that would care, maybe, but you knew I didn't care. I guess it is a contextual thing with your roommate. I tend to think, though, that if it's not late at night, if no one's trying to sleep. and you're just home that like pop in an earbud yeah yeah like sex happens and it's going to happen the way it's going to happen and like

sometimes you can't even like like sometimes it's it's not like something you control like yeah yeah it's just happening yeah it's happening to you things are going places and you're surprised yeah you're shocked and odd I know I think in like my wiser years now you know if I ever get back into it I think I would try to be a little more like stealth you know it's like there's probably something fun about that too just being like trying to be quiet or whatever

like yeah God it's like shut up dude that's well and that I guess is the other thing too is that like sometimes it's like all right who's this performance for yeah yeah exactly I will get a guy like that and I'll be like I know what I'm operating with and I know it's not eliciting this response so like

You'll be quiet if you want. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This was a thing that when I had roommates, that was always sort of a touch point, and I don't know if you guys experienced this. When is it okay, were you comfortable with them in general bringing strangers home to the house?

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if we ever brought strangers home. Yeah. I mean, there was one party. I think you brought somebody back from and I was like, who's that? But I don't really care. I don't even remember that.

I'll remind you after Okay Oh What a history We can bleep his name too I'm a musician If you're living with somebody You trust them

To make sort of smart And enough choices Well people live with people They don't know at all So I don't know I guess that might be a difference I just trust Courtney's I'm really like

Being confronted with the fact That I have erased So much of my memory Like I just was like And I'm done with that. And this is really making me be like, oh, no. I think that's probably like your brain making space for all the shit you have to know about raising a human child now. Well, I hope so.

Yeah. So it's totally fair. Ladies, as we sort of get to the end point of the podcast, I wanted to talk just one last. Any general thoughts about being a clown in love or searching for love? Like what, is there anything about your experience? Is it something you'd recommend? No. No.

Absolutely not. No. I mean, success story. Yeah, but I think that was maybe a fluke. I don't know. You had to get someone clown adjacent. Yeah, I did. I think to be a clown in love, you got to get lucky.

And maybe like the clown gods above, like they smile on you at a certain point in your life and you have to grab it. Maybe so, yeah. Like something glistened. and you have to, you know, take it when it presents itself. And that's what I'm hoping will happen for me. I think it will happen. Thanks. I like, I just want to have like, I don't want to date any more than like one more person.

And I want to be like married and not to. Well, I'll tell you what. My husband is my first boyfriend ever. Really? Because I was very much that way too. I hated dating. Yeah. I did not want to date.

I did not want to date for no reason. I did not want to go on many first dates just for the hell of it. And I put out into the universe. first one day, what the things I wanted, and three months later I met my husband, second day after I met him, I told my friend I'm going to marry this man. He said you're being fucking psycho. And I've talked to him every day since. I think like intentionality is a huge part of it. I did do, well, sorry to interrupt you. But yeah, you're right. Intentionality is a big part of it. My friend and I, a year and a half ago on my birthday, we did like love spells. And we're like, I don't. one guy who likes dogs and who isn't allergic to dogs. That was part of my list. It was like when we were reading about this spell, it's like you need to make sure you're very specific.

Otherwise you can get somebody who likes dogs but is actually allergic and then you won't be able to have a dog. But I just wanted to mention that like me and Courtney, my and Courtney show that we're going to be releasing sometime later this year, the broadcast, which you briefly mentioned. That's a clown show about two women in love. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Where's that going to be? Where can we see that? We're finding a home for it, but it could just be on YouTube. Yeah. Potentially. These days in this economy, I guarantee you, like I will say the average YouTube special has more views than I guarantee you my Netflix special does.

I mean, likewise, likewise. It's tough out there. It's for the people. If you want people to see it, if you want to get paid, go to some place like Netflix. If you want people to watch it, go to YouTube. Yeah. So it's a double-edged store. Yeah, we took it to South by a couple years ago, and people really liked it.

So we're hoping to get out there. Hey, start the letter writing campaign right now. Listeners, if you want to see Vanessa and Natalie's broadcast, hit up Paramount Plus. Hit up Netflix. Hit up HBO. Yeah. And I will say it is, it's like appropriate for most streamers, I think. It's absurd, but there's not like a ton of nudity or anything. There's just a touch.

DASH. Just a dash of nudity. I think satin. There's a dash of nudity and almost everything these days. Yeah. They want that. It's a sapphic, dystopian love comedy.

I think there's a real, like those words just stimulated. I can tell you, we have a large base of queer women and queer adjacent women who listen to this. And women adjacent queer people who listen to this podcast who are frothing at the mouth, right? now hearing that, those words kind of out of your mouth. We, um, have a big makeout scene where we're making out with like a bunch of,

uh, chicken in our mouths. It's disgusting. Yeah. But, the Deplas brothers produced it. Oh, okay.

Yeah. So, it's legit, you guys. Yeah. It's legit. Yeah. Yeah. Um,

that's going to be the name of my next special, by the way, appropriate for most streamers. Feel free. Yeah, please. I'd be honored. I'd be honored.

Um, okay, guys, um, we're gonna, um, get to plugs in a second here. But for our

listeners, if you have a relationship question or a love question or a sex question that you have, we're doing a series of call and advice shows coming up, and we really would love your voicemails or email questions. So leave us a voicemail at 213-379-9-851. That's 213-379-9-8-5-1, or intimacy coordinator pod at gmail.com. That's intimacy coordinator pod at gmail.com. We got some really super special guests, pairings, and people that will be answering your questions. Can't answer them yet, but definitely get those questions in now. We cannot wait to help you.

Now, ladies, I want to end with just one last question that I usually ask every one of my guests, which is what's making you believe in love this week, something you've seen, listened to you heard? I guess, yeah, just hearing about, like, beautiful stories like Courtney has, Like where they just fell in love quickly and made a cute little family. Honestly, same. Yeah.

Aw. Yeah. That's a really, it was inspiring. And I had the pleasure of writing an elevator up with Courtney. And she, it made, honestly, I was struggling coming in today. But just hearing about her baby. Aw. Uplifting me.

So one short elevator ride with Courtney really turned things around for me. Oh, gosh. So Courtney, what's, no pressure now, but what's making you? you believe in love this week. Oh, I, well, I mean, I do feel really lucky. I'll say it. Like, things on that front worked out for me, so I wake up. And I really got, I did not know if it was going to go down that way.

So I do wake up every day, like, oh, my God, I'm so lucky. And I feel very grateful. What else is making me believe in love? I don't know. I love Natalie, and I love that we're here. We've been friends for so long. And, I don't know. That's a friendship kind of.

of love, but I do feel like we have a romantic friendship. Oh, you see when you watch the show. Not on the heels of Natalie coming out as by adjacent. You can't just drop that. Incredible, incredible answers all around. I will say I just spent the weekend in Joshua Tree with my husband and a couple of our friends. And he literally just like, I woke up and he had purchased. just me a bunch of the drinks that I had forgotten to bring with us.

And it's little things like that that made me really be like, I'm a lucky man. They were, of course, sugar-free red bull red flavor. He knows his man. He knows his man. So other than broadcasts, which the listeners are already creating a change. org petition to get on Stars Network. What can the people, where can the people find you? And what are you doing these days, Natalie?

Yeah, they can find me on Instagram at Natalie Palamedas and my special Nate on Netflix and I guess insurance commercials. Oh, and I'm on a cartoon on Netflix, Haunted Hotel. Awesome. Awesome. And she is, of course, one of the many team members of Flo on the Progressive commercials. Famously, she's sort of the camaradergently one, if you're familiar. If you're following the progressive cinematic universe, as I have for the last 20 years, it's crazy. She must be the richest woman in commercials, I have to imagine.

And she's the sweetest lady. She totally deserves it. Oh, and I'll be touring my show we're later in the fall. Great. And I'm assuming that will be on your Instagram as well. Yes. Thank you. Check out Natalie Palomides.

At Natalie Palomides. Vanessa. My special Vanessa 5,000, is on drop. out you can stream it. I am at Courtney Peroso on Instagram and I am I don't know when this is coming out. Yeah do I. Amazing. Well if it's still not June 14th, 15th or possibly the 28th and 29th, I'm doing my first show gutter plum at Elysian theater. So maybe there will still be tickets for that. But I love that show. It's like a nastier kind of crazy. easier show, but it's also sweeter and warmer.

And I'm excited to do it again. Well, I love all those adjectives thrown in together back to back. That sounds incredible. I actually, I'm legitimately intrigued and will be at the illusion in one of those dates. So you guys, that's been another episode of Intimistic Coordinator. I am Joel Kambuster. If you like what you heard today, please give us a rating and review in iTunes or Spotify or wherever you listen to this podcast today.

It helps people find the pod. Once again, I do not read any comment that is under five stars. So even if you have a critique, leave it with five stars and five stars alone. Once again, if you have thoughts, feelings, questions, concerns, text exchange. It's intimacy coordinator pod at gmail.com. If you want to reach out. And we will be with you next week with more intimate conversations coordinated by me. Joel Kimbooster.

Goodbye.