Bad Hasbara - The World's Most Moral Podcast - 137: Power Goy, with Matt Bernstein

Episode Date: August 28, 2025

Matt and Daniel welcome content creator Matt Bernstein to talk through Israel’s “double-tap” bombing of Nasser Hospital and the attendant instant revisionism, getting lectured by near-strangers on behalf of Israel, and Daniel-Ryan Spaulding’s series of colonial violence fet videos.Please donate to the Gaza City Flour Fund: http://bit.ly/gazaflourfundJoin the patreon at https://www.patreon.com/badhasbaraBad Hasbara Merch Store: https://estoymerchandise.com/collections/bad-hasbara-podcastFind Matt and A Bit Fruity at https://www.youtube.com/@MattBernstein1Get tickets for Francesca Fiorentini, Matt Lieb and friends with Daniel Maté October 13 in Brooklyn: https://bit.ly/mattfranbellhouseSubscribe to the Patreon https://www.patreon.com/badhasbaraWhat’s The Spin playlist: https://spoti.fi/4kjO9tLSubscribe/listen to Bad Hasbara wherever you get your podcasts.Spotify https://open.spotify.com/playlist/50JoIqCvlxL3QSNj2BsdUR?si=fX8ubEarS5mpID7RGcw56gApple Podcasts https://apple.co/4kizajtSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/bad-hasbara/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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Olive Garden us White foster us Zabrahamas Asvaras us Hello, everyone, and welcome to Bad Hasbara. The world's most binaural podcast. Ooh, binaural beats, baby. They go left, they go right.

My name is Matt Lieb. I will be your most moral co-host for this podcast. I'm Daniel Mate. I'm the other one. Welcome, everybody. Oh, so excited to have all of you here with us once again for another episode of just to the absolute moral destruction of the world

give us five stars in review that's always good to do during dark times if you have any of the podcast apps and you want to help us be discoverable that helps a lot so you know go to whatever app you use and if they allow you to do reviews

do it give us a review send us some stars so please subscribe YouTube.com We're at Bad Hasbara. You saw the link. If you're watching, just click subscribe button for gosh sakes. And then merch.

We now have a t-shirt that we sell. It is union-made merch, so there is almost no profit made from it because it's so expensive to make. But so many people have been asking for like a shirt that we went ahead and made it. So you can go to baddestbarra.com. get yourself a shirt speaking of shirts daniel you are um under arrest by the bobbies for wearing a palestine action oh wait it says plasticine action oh you didn't i oh you tricked me i don't take um we need to get um someone on the pod from the uk to talk about that situation

because that is some of the craziest shit i have heard yeah the idea that you you can be arrested for wearing a shirt that says Palestine action is insane. Maybe, so when Stanley will come back. Oh, yeah, maybe he'd come back. That would be great. But yeah, anyways, get a shirt that won't get you arrested at bad hasbarra.com. Get tickets to our show in Brooklyn. We have tickets left for the Bell House.

It's going to be myself, Francesca Fiorentini, and Daniel Mate, plus others. Not a Bad Hasbara show, but a Bad Hasbara show. but a Bad Hasbara Extended Universe show. It's an extended universe show. It's a stand-up show. It's not a live podcast. Our live podcast is sold out, unfortunately. But we will do more.

We will do bigger venues in the future and more of people. I visited our venue for our shows. The gutter. I saw that. Tiny. Yes. Yes. But intimate.

Intimate. It's going to be great. Intimate. Exactly. And you know what? This is also going to be our first ever like bad has barra's show. So, you know, we got to try it out in front of a test audience to see if, you know, we... It's not like we're true and on.

Like, we can sell out, like, four nights at the Society for Ethical Culture wherever they're playing. How many C-Facts is that? I don't know, but several hundred, I think. Maybe not. Maybe it's not that big, but it's four nights over the course of summer. And one of those nights coincides with one of our dates. With one of our dates. But I want to say to our listeners, even though our show is sold out, even if you couldn't get tickets to ours,

if you go to that show, you're dead to us. That's right. You should be sitting at home or sit outside the venue. Or sit outside the venue, crying. That's what I used to do when I couldn't get radiohead tickets before radio had failed me. So, you know, please show up anyways, yell at us from outside the venue. Today's episode is brought to you by the Gaza City Flower Fund now more than ever because of what's obviously going on in northern Gaza, there is ramped up attacks, and the Gaza City Flower Fund is raising money

to feed up to 250 families in and near Gaza City with two kilogram sacks of flour, purchased at disaster premium prices, and given directly to hungry families, you can donate right now at bit.ly slash Gaza Flower Fund. You know, Moshen, who is in North Gaza, who's doing a lot of the organizing of this is like, you know, the main person in Gaza doing it, along with Harley in the UK who's helping get the money to him. They actually put out a, you know, a video of them, you know, getting all the food together and whatnot. And I don't know if you notice, but they put, without me asking, by the way, they put bad Hezbarra on their like menus and stuff. It's crazy. Look at this. Do you see that? God. Yes. Yes. And then here's them making

the food. And, you know, this is, it's all mutual aid. So, you know, it's everyone is, is pitching in and, um, uh, you can see on, uh, motions, um, Instagram them like handing the food to families and stuff and. Somewhere right now there's a Hasbarez typing furiously, see, there's no famine. Look at all that food. See how big those pots are? Yeah, yeah, exactly. What do you need pots that big when you, yeah, exactly.

So ignore all of the noise from the psychopaths out there who are doing modern day Holocaust denial. Please donate. We debunk that thoroughly on our last Patreon episode with Ahmed Eldian. That's right. We really did. And if you want to hear that, then you can join us. on Patreon, patreon.com slash bad as barra.

But before you do that, if you have any money, please donate it to the Gaza City Flower Fund. Okay, shout out to producer Adam Levin on the ones and twos. Daniel, what's the spin? Today, the spin is devoted to artists that my brother Aaron introduced me to or artists that Aaron has been into since we were kids, just for whatever reason, because there's just a bunch of them recently. It was just albums just like the wiggles

I'm just to give you as children Raffy Raffy I mean Raffy Aaron dressed up as Raffy as a kid I have a picture of that song For Halloween yeah Oh I love that no no not for Halloween He actually went to the Vancouver Children's Festival

Dressed up as Raffy to meet Raffy And there's a picture of the two of them together I love that This is a new jazz record by the British drummer What's his name? Damn it Yusuf Dias or d-A-Y-E-S called black classical music absolutely just immaculate jazz and I love it when a drummer

is the leader of a jazz combo you know that the drums are going to be extremely well recorded and you know not just be not just be rhythmic that's why I love the band Genesis when Phil Collins was the singer my favorite yeah favorite jazz band she seems to have an Invisible touch, yeah. This is a record by, his name is Marcus Brown, but he goes by Nourished by Time. He's from Baltimore, a friend of Aaron's. Bemore. This is not his latest album, his latest album, The Passionate Ones, just came out, but this

is his previous album, Erotic, Probiotic 2, fantastic, just really cool. I want to say R&B, but that doesn't really capture it. He's just a great songwriter, and he produces it all himself. And he produced that album in his parents' basement in Baltimore. This is Marvin Gay's divorce album, Here My Dear. He actually made this album to fulfill a contractual obligation, I think, to Motown records. And his wife in the split got the, you know, like at least half of the royalties.

Wow. So it's called Here My Dear. It's like, here you go. And it's a bitter but very tender also chronicle of a failed relationship. And for me, that's kind of poignant because this past Saturday was the 10-year anniversary of my ill-fated wedding. That's crazy. That's kind of like, that's a more classy version of Noah Baumbach having to do the screenplay to Ice Age 2 in order to get a pay for his divorce. In order to get to do marriage story?

Yeah, in order to eventually do marriage story. A wonderful, dramatic, dramatic story about what if you married someone who was more of a New York person, but you were an L.A. person. We've all been there. We've all been there. Being alive. The Icedy album, O.G., original gangster, his best album, and Aaron was, Aaron could recite every lyric off of here, including, I work hard for my living, but I don't celebrate no bullshit Thanksgiving, sit around like some fool. will eat in turkey. That's the day your ancestors jerked me. Oh, damn. Great line. And finally, Aaron was a big New Jack swing fan back in the day, Belle Biv DeVoe.

Bell Biv DeVoe. Number one on the charts, Bel Biv DeVoe. That's a kid's in the hall reference. Oh, was it? Yeah, yeah, it's a great skit with Kevin McDonald after his wife leaves him, of all things, just having a complete meltdown in front of his kid reading the newspaper. I love it. I love the theme. The divorce theme of it's true it's not it got nothing to do with Aaron I just wanted to talk about my divorce well

you know that's that's that's life sometimes you're with somebody sometimes you're not and that's why we have music um that's right that is what is spinning this week and now we are pleased to introduce our guest for this

week's bad has Barra he is the host of the a bit fruity podcast he is and anti-Zionist Jew who has been active and speaking out against this genocide before literally anyone else was doing it. And he has the best nails in the game. Best goddamn nails in the game. Ladies and gentlemen and everyone else, please welcome to the podcast, Matt Bernstein.

What's up? Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I definitely was not even close to the first person, but... No, I mean, listen, but it was early. It was early. It was early. It was early.

And I think, you know, I was not familiar with you before October 7th. And I remember, you know, I think we all remember around that time the just abject, absolute silence from anyone in the entertainment industry. It was something that was noticeable because of the fact that we know so many people who make it their business to talk about current events, to talk about politics, to talk about social justice. And I just was looking and seeing nothing. The only people who were talking about it were people who, you know, weren't in entertainment. They were, you know, just regular people. But you were one of the few who early on was speaking out against it. So first, I want to say thank you for coming on the podcast.

And second, I want to say thank you for speaking. I think that is awesome. Well, I'm so happy that I'm here. You and I made one of my favorite episodes on my podcast, which was called the anti-Semitism panic, around a lot of influencers in the way they stoke fear in their audience. audiences so as to, you know, manufacture ongoing consent for genocide. And I, yeah, I'm just so happy to be here. I'm stoked that you're here. I want to first, you know, start by asking you about what you dealt with when you were speaking out so early on, you know. What were you known for before speaking out? Well, so I have been a political creator kind of commentary, progress.

commentary guy online, on Instagram, on Twitter, with my podcast for a number of years. For a long time, I mainly stuck to, like, LGBT-type stuff. I would talk about being Jewish, but I did not talk really at all about the Middle East. And then after October 7th happened, I kind of, it was an interesting thing because I had this audience, and they knew that I was Jewish and they knew that I was Jewish. gay and they knew that I was progressive and so within that audience there were a lot of like a lot obviously of um you know left wing progressives and there were also some gay Jews who were Zionists because I hadn't really spoken about Israel because it wasn't a huge part of my like own political

ethos which is embarrassing to say like I just I mean no I it's understandable a lot of people I think it just was not something that they'd ever considered or thought of, you know. And I think for a lot of Jews, they were keeping it at bay. No pun intended. Totally. Totally. But after October 7th happened, I was getting flooded with messages, both from progressives who were saying, please talk about Palestine and say something in support of Palestine and also from a way more Zionist than you might have expected who were following me at the time who said, please say something in support of Israel. Right. And so it was really like this position that I was in as a result of my job and my work that forced me to be like, okay, well,

I have to talk about this because if I don't talk about this as a political creator, people are going to start asking why. Right. And so I just tried to learn as much as I could in a pretty short amount of time and then in the two years since then and that led me to the conclusion of like wait this is first of all this is apartheid this is occupation this has been apartheid and occupation for over 70 years and we are witnessing the beginning of the genocide because within days of October 7th you know Israel had already murdered more Palestinians than Israelis had died on October 7th so it was like

immediately kind of what I thought was very easy to denounce but I mean it was crazy like the first thing that I posted which basically just said I don't stand with Israel because that's when all the celebrities were posting their I stand with Israel Instagram stories yes did you can I don't know if you're into musical theater I write musicals did you see that when the when the whole Broadway community went out to Times Square and sang bring them home oh yeah yeah yeah yeah including a lot of people that I've worked with and no personally it was so embarrassing it's very embarrassing and Yeah, I mean, the first thing that I posted, I like, I rarely get nervous about posting about polita.

I'm like, I know what I believe in. If you have an issue with it, you can have an issue with it, but like this is my truth, whatever. I was so nervous about this because I knew that it was going to fracture familial relationships, you know, childhood relationships, whatever. All of this is very insignificant compared to genocide. It goes with what I'm saying. But like that first post, it got like 800,000 likes. I thousands of people unfollowed me thousands of people followed me it was it was all a lot to take in I mean like people who I who who who who I knew so little that their numbers weren't even

saved in my phone were reaching out to me being like hey I literally I got this one text from from someone who was like it was it was this long it was super long yeah and it was like please be careful how you wield your platform that da da da and I didn't have this person's number saved. And I said, who are you? Right. And he said, oh, we met at a house party at Art Basel last year. We had a conversation on a white couch. And I was like, I don't know who the fuck you think you are, but we don't know each other. I don't know what gives you the feeling like that you have the right to like message me about how I build my platform. I don't fucking know you. I talk to you at what? Who are you? Yeah. Yeah. This is like such a common thing,

man. After October 7th, if you were someone who was speaking out, especially if you were Jewish and speaking out against the genocide, getting messages from people who you've barely interacted with. And you always know it's bad when you get the long one, when you, when you're just like, as soon as it's long, you go, oh, here we go. I got to read a bunch of old, Has Barra 101? This woman I went to college with who I, who we were not in the same year. So we never had a single class together. And I think we exchanged, like we were in the same program.

And I think we exchanged over the course of, you know, years, seven words. Asked if she could talk to me on the phone. Oh, yeah. I was, and it was just, it was a version of that every single day for like months. And it has, you know, that was a, that was a hard time. again way harder for people like enduring genocide than it was for like a Jewish influencer in New York but sure sure and I always feel the need to like put that in there but no of course that was that was a hard time I mean like I was shunned by colleagues

I was dropped by representation I you know not a unique story no unfortunately not but it was just hard and I so many people made me feel like I had like committed this ultimate sin that would yes you know be the end of my career be the end of my social life and it's been a real mind fuck the last couple months especially watching you know a greater portion of the United States especially like come around kind of right yeah yeah but it's also just like people notably like especially Palestinians have been saying that this is exactly where we are right now is exactly where we were always going to end up yeah and here we are and so it's just it's it's I'm really frustrated and I haven't really made peace with what happened then yeah and it's hard

to were you yelled at by your management or did you did they just drop you oh no I was I was crucified yeah I was crucified over the phone that yeah this is this has been a I've heard too many times to count now from multiple people in the entertainment industry who, you know, it's one thing to just be dropped. I know one person who was kind of dropped silently, no conversation, no nothing. They just, you know, found out through a third party. They're like, we tried to call your agents and they say they no longer represent you. But I know a bunch of people who were yelled at on multiple occasions, multiple phone calls

by the people who work for them. And I mean, that's the thing about the, you know, entertainment industry is like, you know, ostensibly your agents and your managers are your, you know, are people who work for you. You're their client or they're your, whatever. They're supposed to work for you. And they're the ones who are yelling at you about, you know, your political positions. And it's just so funny to me. yeah if they were in the right

if they really deeply down thought that they were in the right they might say something like hey I actually can't continue to work for you in good conscience like your views just don't align with mine but instead it's like on your way out the door on my way out the door I'm going to give you this fucking righteous

lecture right because like you said it's heresy that you're doing right yeah it's apostasy you're leaving the cult and we're going to we're going to give you something to think about for forever and and it's the chilling effect you're never supposed to speak again yeah there there was a lot of crazy shit that happened with some of my representation and I will say like people who I work

with who helped me do my job um who were outside of like a major agency were amazing right the people who like understood what I was about were wonderful and I still work with those people um but you know like I did have major agency representation and I remember when I put my first post up that got like more traction than I anticipated than I think anybody anticipated. They like got me on the phone and I was like thinking like oh we're just going to like talk about like how do we deal with this amount of attention and vitriol and all of this stuff that's coming my way. And immediately my agent at the time goes into a monologue about how she used to believe in a two-state solution, but it's just, but it's just not feasible anymore and we have to do something. And I was like,

oh my God. Like, I thought we were going to be talking about my hate mail. But you just called me to do hate mail. Yeah, she just like, well, no, I wanted to add to it. It's too bad too, because if you're looking for common ground reactionary Zionists and us have that in common. We used to believe in a two-state solution too. Yeah, that's right. We just went in the other direction. Yeah, we decided everyone deserves human rights. And they decided that some people aren't human and deserve to be genocide. And that we can't half step in in terms of being just. We can't be like, well, let's hold on to our racist state and give them a token. crumb.

Yeah, to be clear, she was not, you know, arguing in favor of dissolving the apartheid state. She was arguing for ethnic cleansing. Yeah, yeah. And it's, that was, and I will say, too, like, I'm 26 now, and I know that's still really young. And this was two years ago. Like, I just, I felt like a really, like, little fish in a big pond with, like, all this agency stuff.

And, like, I talk about it confidently now and I have had years to think about. happened with all of the professional and social fallout but at the time it was terrifying yeah like they they really succeeded for a period of time in making all of us terrified to yeah yeah no i mean a hundred percent and it's uh that you know to me is why um voices like yours stood out because uh because i just knew so many people i was having so many conversations with people who were who agreed with me and you know they worked as writers or actors and whatnot and but they were just scared shitless of the amount of stories they've heard of people who you know barely said anything and lost their job the you know lost their agency lost whatever and

and again none of that all of it pales in comparison to experiencing an actual genocide but You see the use of intimidation and the chilling effect, you know, out here as almost like a, you know, it's like a nerve microcosm of what it is to be a Palestinian. It's like, you know, it's like, you know, for us, it's the fear of losing a job. It's not the fear of losing our life. And you see the way in which Israel uses. the um you know drastic consequences uh in order to stop people from doing anything they were thinking of doing uh in you know in order to speak out for Palestinians and yeah you see that especially when it comes to journalism and of course this parallel is super weak of course it is like

there is no comparison between the two um but as a way to segue into our next subject I will say that you are seeing the most blatant attempt to tell people these are the consequences if you try to get the word out. And, you know, for you or I, it's losing your platform, losing your ability to speak, losing your income from, you know, doing your job. And in, you know, losing sleep. Yeah. And in Gaza, it's losing your life. I mean, we're talking about the attack on the Nassar Hospital in South Gaza that just recently happened. And it wasn't just an attack. It was a message. It was a message to every journalist, every person in Gaza, and every Palestinian, we will not let you tape us. We will not let you get the word out. And ironically

enough, it was a televised message. Yes, yes. It was done in full view of the entire world. I mean, when they killed Anas al-Sharif, I don't know that we have footage of that. We have footage of this. No, we have footage of the aftermath of this so-called double tap, which I would urge us not to use that term. That's as euphemistic as knock on the door. Right. Or. mowing the lawn what it is is a serial murder and it's a it's not only that but it's a death trap because you bomb a hospital and then you wait for the emergency crews and the first responders to go in and then you bomb the hospital yes and this this was so blatant and brazen that I think it ended up having the opposite effect so just to

get into it so the um first of all i don't know if you guys experience this when it comes to uh israel but like everything is deja vu everything is didn't they just do this every attack that i've seen at this point feels like a rerun and i almost feel like this is like the strategy like have you guys ever seen the movie minority report I actually haven't. No, the Spielberg movie. Okay, so it doesn't matter. But in that movie, the way that someone is able to pull off a murder at a time when there's

these magical precognitive sages who are able to see, what about the Fableman? Have you seen the Fableman? I haven't seen the Fableman. Okay, great movie. Very long. The only way in which a murder can be pulled off is for you to repeat the exact same. crime over and over and then people just think that they're seeing a repeat, they're seeing an echo.

That's what it feels like watching this. Like first of all, the double tap. This term that we, you know, are, we are making TRAFE is a term that they, I mean, they've done it multiple times, 972 magazine published an investigation. And they've said that Israel security forces, um, you know, they've said that Israel security forces, um, had, quote, this has become standard procedure in Gaza during the war, which is to like shoot and then wait seven minutes for emergency services to come and shoot again. The other reason is that you might be having deja vu is the fact that this hospital has

been attacked several times the last two years. Here's just a quick list of the attack. So first we have December, 2023. There was an Israeli shooting in the maternity ward, which killed a 13th. year old girl and wounded three others. In January and February of 2024, after intensifying bombardment, Israeli forces besieged and then raided the hospital leading to the collapse of services. A shell hit the orthopedic ward. Patients died due to lack of oxygen from a power outage. March 2024 besieged again, more shelling. They also hit the surgical unit that time. April 24,

following the withdrawal of Israeli forces mass graves containing hundreds of bodies were uncovered at the site. May 2025, an Israeli attack in the hospital killed at least 18 people, including Palestinian journalists. June 2025, another strike killed three people, wounded 10, and then this strike in August. Like, just attacking the, this is South Gaza's only functioning hospital to continue the attacks on this hospital is just so disgusting and so brazen that you you uh you can't even like compute it because you go like are are you just allowed to do whatever you want like the you just watch these blatant attacks and no one is stopping it it's just it's just so but some people are expressing strong concern matt that's true

David Lammy in the UK was very upset about this. Yeah, that's right. It really, you know, it really did not go down smoothly with his daily shipment of weapons to Israel. That's right. It just really left a bitter taste in his mouth. But, I mean, I know this is a rhetorical question, but they can do whatever they want. Yeah. Yeah.

That's it. It's such a weird. state to be living in, and I think a lot lately about just like the erosion of democracy in general. I can't imagine why. But it's weird because we're all watching this happen, right? I mean, they attack this hospital again and again and again, the only functioning hospital in South Gaza. Netanyahu put out a statement either this morning or last night that it was a, quote, tragic mishap. And it's like you, who is this even for? Yes. Who is this even for? You've done this weekly for two years. It's just, I mentioned the erosion of democracy because

it's weird. It's like the entire world is outraged. And yet there are no consequences. It just leads to the feeling of helplessness for the individual, you know, watching this happen. And that's part of the point is to pummel us with, you know, a fucking dumbbellbell stuck in a sock. just whipping up us upside the head until we it's a kind of moral concussion you get actually at a certain point you just can't you just you're we're supposed to accept that this is just the world now it doesn't matter if we believe them anymore Hasbara used to care whether you believed it and I can't especially when you say who is this for well compare and contrast what they say in English yes versus what they say on the home front

Yes. And I think we have that. Yeah. So, I mean, here is the English reporting around this. So it's like, first, this was Al Jazeera English reporting. Reuters reports that their live video feed from the hospital, which was operated by cameraman Hosam al-Masuri suddenly shut down at the moment of the initials, really attack on the hospital. And then here is, you know, more reporting from Haaret. So first I'll read you Benjamin Netanyahu's tweet in which he, and this came out much more rapidly than in the past. In the past, they've, you know, not, it's always special when they feel the need to do the public facing, English facing, like, oh man, this, this is really sad and we're really sorry. So he wrote, Israel deeply regrets the tragic mishap that occurred today.

at the Nassar Hospital in Gaza. It's not a mishap, it's a hap. Yeah, exactly. They're doing, yes, it's just, they're doing what they do. Israel values the work of journalists, medical staff, and all civilians. The military authorities are conducting a thorough investigation. Our wars with Hamas terrorists. Our just goals are defeating Hamas and bringing our hostages home.

And there was a statement that was put out in English. echoing this from a new guy in Israeli Hasbara. This is the first time I've seen him. IDF spokesperson effie deference. Okay. Put that in your syringe and plunge it. I know. It does sound that way.

Very epinephrine. Like, Israelis be named epinephrine. Epiphydefran. well i don't want to i don't want to be the guy who laughs at funny names i don't i'm not but when your names sometimes are eaten fishburger yeah and and effie deference anyways the point is effie deference is very good we should show some due deference yes effie deference effie deference effie deference helps against going into anaphylactic shock and No. So here is F.E. DeFrin talking about what had happened at the hospital. Here it is.

Earlier today, IDF troops carried out a strike in the area of Nazar Hospital in Khan Yunis. The area of? You are aware of repul. Yeah, the area of. I mean, to be fair, it is a really big hospital. So it is the area of when they just to just a portion, just the part where the journalists were. If I shoot you in the forehead, shots were fired in the area of Matt Lieb. Yeah, it's in the neighborhood that Matt Lieb lives in. Yeah, the general direction of my brain. All right, here we go.

It's cause to civilians, including journalists. I would like to be clear from the start. The IDF does not intentionally target civilians. The IDF makes every effort to mitigate. harm to civilians while ensuring the safety of our troops. Hold on, pause. Any incident? I love intentionally target.

Because take the word intentionally out, take that qualifier out. What are you left with? Right. You don't intentionally target civilians. Right. When you target civilians, it's unintentional. Right. Which is just complete, nonsense.

Targeting is targeting, and you do target civilians. And it is completely intentional. Yeah, yeah. I mean, just, also the, there's the, like, implicit qualifier of, you know, civilians or non-combatants, where it's just like, yeah, no, we don't kill civilians. Luckily for us, we have a unit of people at the IDF who make sure that these people are not considered civilians after we smear their name. Yeah, so it's like, you know, it's, it's all, it can all hold up in court, I think. They handle the civilian part in post. Yes, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. The case is concerned in this regard is addressed by the relevant mechanisms in the IDF.

We are operating in an extremely complex reality. Hamas terrorists deliberately use civilian infrastructure, including hospitals. It's the same shit. It's the same shit. It's the same shit. It's the same shit over and over and over again. You know, I will say, like, I haven't really paid much attention to the output, the official output from the state of Israel, because I think it's so besides the point.

Yeah. So, like, I'm seeing this for the first time. And it's actually kind of shocking to me that they still even put this much effort into, like, fake excuses. I know. I know. Especially when they already have a video, I'd, like, just re-release an old video and make it, like Madlibs where you just, you know, put a blank space in the name of the place and the date. And it's just, but it's interesting to me because like two years later, it's like they're still

just like human shields, human shields, human shields. It's like, I don't know. I guess I am in my own bubble, but it's hard to believe that people are still buying such bullshit, like such blatant bullshit, you know? People they need to buy it are buying it. Yeah. They're subscribed to it. The free press people. Yeah, yeah. The fucking CNN people. Yeah. Anyone, all they're doing is putting up a buffer between the human mind,

heart, and soul and the natural moral instinct and response. They're just putting up, you know, they're putting up a security perimeter between you and how the human part of you would respond to what you're actually seeing. Yeah. Yeah. It's well said. And, you know, it's also. important to note that when they are speaking to you in English, they are very aware of what their

audience or who their audience is. And they know that they're dealing with an audience of people who are not going to be in any way impressed with the idea of killing journalists and just smearing them over and over again as like actual secret Hamas agents and combatants. You know, we've done this before. We've compared their coverage in English to Hebrew, but this one is just so night and day because what they are telling their own citizens in Israel and any Hebrew speakers is just so markedly different

from the tone and the content of the Hezbar that we see that's English world facing. Here is... There really is no other country in the world that has such a dual personality inward and outward. Yeah, I mean, I have not seen this. I want to know what they said. I mean, it is, well, here is a couple, it's a couple of things from Channel 14,

which is a news channel in Israel. This is an incident that has been making a lot of noise since this morning. But as of this evening, from the details we have gathered so far, it is explicitly clear. Our fighters acted as required. We are now publishing this after a conversation with the forces involved in the mentioned attack. They are claiming unequivocally that the attack was authorized and coordinated with senior command and they were aware of it before it was carried out. Additionally, in recent days in the Golani storm on one of the upper floors of the Nasser terror headquarters, an advanced camera has been installed that is observing them and apparently gathering intelligence in preparation for a terror operation that could endanger their lives.

Furthermore, intelligence personnel understand that those operating it are terror operatives and therefore decided to carry out a attack to eliminate the threat imagine that imagine that they set up a camera to surveil these kindly visitors yes you know imagine having the audacity to try and collect intelligence on the fucking invaders but what's what's worse is that like it if that were the case that's not the case what they ended up doing is seeing cameras seeing journalists and killing them and claiming they are Hamas cameras. They literally have used the phrase Hamas cameras. Cameras are Hamas.

Cameras are Hamas now. And, you know, it's just like you can't take any of this seriously if you are, I think, you know, someone who is even just like moderately informed about the, you know, about Israel, about Palestine. Like you, this is for their own citizens. So let them know. Don't worry, guys. There was a Hamas camera there. We did the right thing.

And also, they are openly admitting that this double tap attack was authorized at the highest levels, that the seven minute interlude between the first attack and then the second attack was authorized. And this is not information that you're going to see in English. by Benjamin Netanyahu in his tweet. He's not going to talk about that. He's going to say, we don't know what happened there. So just we'll find out and we'll let you know. We think it's terrible that this happened.

And hopefully we can all get some sleep and forget in the morning. The word they'll never use in Hebrew is tragedy. Yeah. There's nothing tragic to them about this. No. Yeah. This is all just part of it for them. And you just look at the way in which they are telling their own citizens, like, this kind of behavior is okay.

And you just, like, you just don't see it. You don't see Western media talking about Israeli society in this way where you go, like, hey, what the fuck is going on there? that they that they barely need any excuse at all in order to like kill civilians the lack of coverage of the Israeli media in the non-Israeli Western media is crazy unconscionable it's unfathomable all of this stuff is available yeah it and it's so fucking revealing and it puts the lie to everything the New York Times says yeah about Israel by the way with those was that dubbing done by AI? I have to say the AI dubbing, I think Adam put it through a dubbing, like a

sub, a translator, I got to say, the Israeli accent on the AI is probably the best accents ever done on this show. It's crazy. It's very uncanny. They get the, they get the lilt just right. It's scary. Yeah. I will say, like, I have always been very cautious around like applying clothes.

cult language to things that seem cultish. Sure, of course. I have an aunt who was raised by her parents in a cult as a child, so she would always kind of be like, you know, be careful about, you know, how you talk about cults. Sure. You know, not everything is a cult. I was in a cult. Right.

But there really is something so cult-like, like Doomsday cult-like about Israel. Yeah. And I think especially around the way that cults. talk about outsiders and like everyone who's not everyone who is not in this is out to get us and we have to like increasingly you know sort of hunker down because the end is coming and like we are the chosen people and like we will protect each other and everyone outside of these four walls is an invader and it's like you really get that with the way they talk about like cameras are Hamas even like I was watching like a Lizzie Savetsky video that she just put up recently

I don't know if you guys have talked about. Okay. Lizzo, let's go. Yeah, Lizzie's just, you can't not watch Lizzie. She's insane. But she, so there were these huge protests in Israel, which you might have seen recently where like hundreds of thousands of people were like marching like for a ceasefire, essentially. Not all for the best reasons, but all definitely tired of this so-called war.

Right. Yeah, more so than ever before. My understanding is it's like anti-Netanyahu Zionists. Right, right, right, right. But she made a video calling them like not, she wasn't calling them Hamas, but she was saying that they're giving power to Hamas by protesting Netanyahu. And she just made another video about how reform Jews have lost their way. And it's just, it's interesting. I mean, like the purity testing and the closing of ranks.

and the fearmongering about outsiders. Like there is something so cult-like about it. And like I have, you know, someone who was my friend for a very, very long time who in the last couple of years really, really, really went down this in a serious way. And this person cut off everyone who is not an extreme devotee. And it's strange to watch. It really is. And I've talked with, you know, other people about, like, how do we, how do we pull this person out?

How do we, and it really does feel like you're talking about someone who slipped into a cult. Yeah, well, the main difference, and there are so many similarities, the main difference is all cults talk about outsiders. Not many cults talk to outsiders this much. Yeah. The outward phase, I mean, Scientology, I guess, but they mainly speak through lawsuits. Right. You know, right. Israel is constantly screaming at the outside world while they're screaming out.

each other on the inside and saying completely different things yeah and it's also i think most cults leave the outside world alone and want to be left alone right israel can't do that the ziontologists have to have the propaganda barrage going in both directions yeah they well because they require the support of the outsiders and yeah well it's that it's that jenny slate clip from whatever show that was where you know she's like daddy give me money please oh yeah yeah yeah well and it's like i mean the the worst part about most cults is that the people inside of them are doing harm to themselves right yes which is also it's like okay if i lost a friend to a cult it would be to to a normal cult it would be tragic for the loss of this friend but in this

case it's a it's a it's a murder cult right kills other people you know yeah yeah which is why it's like it's like not only am i sad that i lost a friend but i actually now i'm angry with you. Yeah. Because you, it's like losing your friend to zombies. You,

exactly, exactly. Yes. Yeah. They've joined an army of harm viewers. Zionbis. Zionbies. Yes.

Yes. Zionbe. Zionbe. Zionbe. Zayombe. Zayombe. Yes. But yeah,

Lizzie's constantly talked about on this show. Here's her. Alo Akbar. She's always saying. Do you have that on like a? Oh, yeah.

I just haven't ready at all time. Like a Lizzie Savetsky reaction machine? Yeah. Lizzie, what do you have to say about that? I agree. God is great. I know that video. Yeah, that's a great one.

That's my call to prayer, actually. Yeah. I just blast Lizzie saying I walk far from my window five times a day. I think she is really interesting. I know we have like other things to talk about, but I, you know, I've thought about her a good amount. And I think she's interesting because she now very. proudly wears the hat of like far right you know orthodox pro net and yahoo maga zionist yes and i have seen a lot of people within like sort of the highly active online zionist

community criticize the more extreme things that she says and does but she is actually i think the natural end point for Zionism in general and so i think she's she's valuable in that sense because she shows us like the peak of where this all goes. Yeah, no, 100%.

And I think it is always interesting, or at least one of my personal interests has been watching the metastasis of like Zionist brain rot through the last 22 months. Because you see, you know, where someone starts to where they've ended up.

And it is wild to watch the like actual not of American Jews because like I've never seen that level before I've seen you know American Jews that I know you know friends growing up who got like um you know a red pilled and became maga people and I always was like oh man that is like it's always wild to to see that kind of stuff but you never imagine it's always exists sort of in the abstract where they can kind of like well you know, I'm not I don't hate anyone

I just think that we should close the borders and I think we should deport 50 million people or whatnot and there's always this like you know thing to it where you can kind of put it in the same box as any kind of white right wing you know ideologue

in the United States but watching straight up Nazi style memes and you know, buzzwords, talking about Western civilization all of a sudden. All of a sudden, they care about the West. Like, when someone starts just saying the West over and over again,

I'm always just like, where are we going with this? Even before they start accusing claims of starvation as being, you know, made up. Someone needs to remake David Kronenberg's The Fly, but like the Zionist version, where, you know, the scientist, uh, crosses his DNA with I don't know or like the Jews cross our DNA this is what Zionism is we like spliced

our DNA with strong men or armies or like having a state you know and at first it seems kind of innocuous we just have a we have some superpowers or whatever but by the end of the movie we're like this fucking monster yes yes that's the same

of Israel that's unrecognizable yeah yeah it's the brundle fly it is it's so wild I mean like the girl who used to drive me home from high school because, like, I was a freshman and she was a senior, so she could drive. And she was a family friend. And I remember, like, when I put my first, you know, we're all Jewish, she, none of us were Orthodox. We were conservative. Their family was reform.

And she married an Orthodox guy. And when I put my first post up again in October of 2023, she started messaging me. like incessantly and she messaged me a hundred times in a week of just like sending me like did you see this post from like at IDF did you see you know all of these things um she's like Matt I love you I'm just so disappointed you're like a brother to me that da da da you know like she's always supported the gay thing whatever and um so I had to very quickly like block her because I was like I tried to talk to her at the beginning this is two years ago um but but then it got out of control and I like checked back in on her recently just like on social media

and she's posting from do you know what jegzit is oh yes is that Jewish dem exit yes there's nothing you don't know in this world I wish I could like I wish I could surprise you with something but I would so jegsit is fucked bro if the listener if the listener doesn't know Jegsit is a take on Blegsit, which was something that Candice Owens really championed, which was the black exit from the Democratic Party. This is the Jewish exit from the Democratic Party. And yeah, it's just like really like racist, you know. Yeah, I have, I mean, there's just so many different versions of this where I have like a friend

or someone who I know from the comedy community who is, I don't even think, I, I, I, I didn't, I don't know if he's Jewish or not is, is the thing. And randomly he just started kind of replying to my posts with like just the bottom of the barrel has Barra. And I was just like, what are we doing here, man? And then I just hadn't checked in with him in a while. And he's like, he's retweeting Lee Kern. Like, if you don't know Lee Kern, he's one of the Borat two writers who was just straight racist. And, uh, for our listeners, he's the, he's the one pair.

to Matt's famous UK drill song. Yes. And like I just it's wild because it's like if you don't check up

on some people you know you don't know how bad it's gotten and I you know I want to we need to transition to the next

Zionist brain rot person which it turns out it doesn't have to be just Jews no no because our next person That's the beautiful thing. As goyasha and uncut as they come. Yes.

I assume. Yes, no, you are correct. I mean, I don't know about the cut. Yeah, I don't know about that. I cannot speak on his cut. But we will talk about Daniel Ryan Spalding in a moment. Daniel Reichsbalding. Yes.

But first, we do need to take a quick commercial break, so everyone please stick around because we will be right back. And we're back. This is Bad Hasbara, World's Most Moral Podcast. And we're here with Matt Bernstein. How you doing, Matt? I'm so excited to talk about this. I don't really have an outlet to talk about this in my normal life because...

Because who would know? Because who would know anything about this person? And like who would want to take up our precious and finite amount of time on earth talking about this? Me. Us, that's who. Exactly, exactly. Wasting time, us. Wasting time, us.

Brain full of lore, us. Killing souls, us. We're talking about Daniel, Ryan Spalding. For those of you who don't remember, he is someone who is, he's an influencer. He is a Jewish ally. He's a non-Jewish Israel. ally who does, I mean, at least since October 7th, his whole brand has been.

It's the world's worst Shabbas Goy. Yeah, yeah, exactly. He really is. I mean, I'd like to think that it's nice to have a Shabbas Goy who would like, not only will I, you know, turn off that, uh, that ceiling fan that you accidentally kept on, uh, you know, during Shabbat, but he'll also, uh, uh, uh, uh, Come in and strangle a baby for you on Saturday when you're not allowed to. Yeah.

Kick a puppy. Yeah, he'll also do some crimes for you. So his whole brand seems to be being like someone who loves Israel and hates Hamas and does weird sexualization of Israelis. Yes. Matt, you are one of the rare people who is also familiar with Daniel Ryan Spalding. Can you tell us what was he doing? before this became his brand?

So I will say, like, I'm not a scholar. I, even I don't hate myself that much. Yeah. But Daniel Ryan Spalding, he's Canadian. Oh. Yeah, he's Canadian, but he's lived in a bunch of places. He lived in Berlin for five years, which is kind of where he got his start online doing comedy. Okay.

And a lot of his early sketches that he was making were sort of parodying Berlin hipsters. Okay. And then he, around all in like 2023, a couple of things happened. He got, I believe, the gastric sleeve weight loss surgery. So he lost a ton of weight. Yes, because his early videos, he's a big guy. Yeah. And I, you know, and I was shocked because I was like, oh, I didn't know that this was a part of his story was this like weight loss journey.

It was true. He got the gastric bypass thing. Yeah. So I believe that's the surgery he got. I mean, either way, he lost the weight. Either way, hero. Yeah. I mean, you know, I have no feelings about his appearance.

Though I do think there's an interesting, you know, analysis to me made about what he's doing now with regard to the people that he surrounds himself with and how they look, which I think we should get to. But yeah, so he basically just for a long time did like parodies of Berlin hipsters, like kind of just like, look how weird these people are. But it didn't seem so egregious. It's the way that like a lot of people would make fun of like Williamsburg hipsters 10 years ago, you know. You know, there was another person who. lived in a German-speaking country to do art. Hey, I think we just got our first spit-take. Yeah, I actually did almost that.

And it's always nice when, you know, someone has some history to fall back on. Well, look at what happens when artists in Germany fail. Yeah. Because I don't think, you know, he's had a number of sort of pivots. And, like, I don't think the comedy thing was necessarily getting him super far. Sure. So he has this weight loss surgery, and then he starts, there's a lot of content about that.

Which, again, like, I don't really have any feelings about that. Right. But then he moves back to New York and October 7th happens. And, like, everything becomes what it is now. Yes. Everything changes. And, you know, what's interesting. about him is early on

I almost saw him as kind of like your boilerplate pink washing influencer where his his style was essentially you know like as a gay man let me explain to my

fellow gay brethren why they are wrong to support Palestine and then kind of like the boilerplate like hey you know Palestinians hate gay people throw them off roofs, all of the like memes that are not backed up by anything other than just your anyone's, you know, latent Islamophobia where you just believe that all Arabs are

homophobic, racist, sexist, all this stuff. Although strangely, his early stuff did seem rather hostile towards like younger queer people. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. There's really a through line through all of it because you look at, I was just watching before we got on to record, I was like watching some of his stuff where he was making fun of Berlin hipsters, which like in and of itself, it's like kind of innocuous, it's kind of low-hanging

fruit in my opinion as far as like comedy or content. Aheader already did it. Yeah. Yeah, but it's like kind of innocuous. But then you see once he starts doing the Zionist stuff, it's all about like he's not. not focusing, you know, broadly on anti-Zionists, broadly on pro-Palestine people. He specifically carves out, he creates a character, and the character actually has its own Instagram, and the character is called Purple Hair Girl.

Yes. And it's this archetypal queer sort of left-wing social justice warrior who, like, goes to Columbia, who is a girl with purple hair and pronouns, and, you know, doesn't understand that Hamas would throw her off her roof, whatever, whatever. And this is kind of his stand-in for anybody who criticizes Israel, especially a queer person, is the purple hair girl. And so you see this, it's always been punching down. Right, right. And in my opinion, it's always been punching down in a way that's kind of very clearly overcompensating because you can tell that this is a fundamentally insecure person.

Yes, very much so. And here is one of his many purple-haired girl videos that he did early on. And Daniel, you and I, we actually covered this video in, like, episode six of this podcast. And here it is. Israel is a colonialist state. Hi, I'm Mr. Daniel. And this is my friend, the purple-haired girl. Like, keep track of the demeanor and the tone and everything about this video.

the wardrobe too. He's in his fucking Mr. Rogers era right here. Yes. Just it's important. It's very important to note it for... Although maybe that's for the sake of the bit. I'm Mr. Daniel. Sure. It is, but also, this was the tone I think of 99% of his videos for like maybe the first three to six months. Not a bad person, but she's been radicalized to become a raging Jew hater. And we want to help her. So early on, he could describe someone who he describes as a, as radicalized to be a Jew hater, as not a bad person.

Yeah. That's just so you know, this was the nuance he was working with at this time. Colonialism is terrorism and Israel is a colonialist state. Hi, purple hair girl. Hello, Zionist pink washer. What country is Israel a colony of? What? You said Israel is a colonial.

state, what country is it a colony of? A colonial state is when one country exploits another like how the British Empire had India as a colony. They took over land and exploited the region. Oh my God, this isn't even a good gotcha. No, I know. This is, this is, I love

the, it can't be, it can't be settler colonialism because of the fact that there isn't a, another previous Jewish state that exists. I was like, what? Like, it's a military outpost of the United States. What are we doing?

Yeah, I love it. By this definition, as soon as the United States declared independence from Britain, they were no longer, we are no longer a colonial estate. I love that. That's true. We aren't. There's no settling happening here, especially since we literally, they call themselves settlers in the West Bank. What are we doing? And they were completely enabled from the beginning by the colonial.

powers. You ever heard of the Balfour Declaration? Right. Yes. Okay, so let's say there are a new iteration of settler colonialism. I do have to say he had, you know, he'd studied his Hasbara lessons. Yeah, yeah. To quote the Queen of Pop or to channel her, you know, a man can tell a thousand lies. He's learned his lesson well. Yeah. I mean, you know what I'm saying? Yes. I think you were speaking to me on that one. Pandering a little. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like at this point, in his, we can call it career, why not? Oh, it very much is his career.

I mean, it's definitely what gets him money. So that's a career. He is, you know, he is studying the Hasbara. You know, he's figuring out ways in which to make these arguments. And the point of these arguments, of course, is to, as he uses fuel for other Zionists to debunk claims of, you know, colonialism and all that stuff. Do we have the video where he takes a shot of my dad? Oh, it's, no, I, I, it turns out I have a different.

Yes. Purple hair girl, purple hair girl's tossing her purple hair being like, I love Gabor Matte. And like, Daniel Ryan Spalding comes to the rescue and says, actually purple hair girl, Gabor Matte is a self-hating Jew. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Daniel Ryan Spalding even like calls Jews on.

line who are anti-Zionist or who criticize Israel in any capacity, like he says capo. Yeah. That is the, that's the new definition of chutzpah, as far as I'm concerned. Yes. Yeah. I mean, this is like a deeply anti-Semitic individual. Yes. In so many ways, I mean, like you can tell so much of his, not to go in like every direction

at once, but like so much of this for him also originates with just his fetish for Israeli men, which he's very open about and which it's strange to me that. that in some ways it's strange to me that they're so open and welcoming towards him when he clearly is very just like, look at all these hot, sexy, big, sweaty, muscular Israeli men, like basically like death to the breast of the middle of the East. You know, it's really strange. It is weird. I mean, listen, I, there was a time, you know, at one point when I, I dated someone who had a, basically had a fetish for, Jews and I was like well that's fun I've haven't been I've never I've never been like othered in a positive way before so I was like this is you know she was working out

historical guilt right wasn't she German no that's just one of your bits no no no she was it turned out that she she she just really like Jerry Lewis a lot and I got kind of offended because I was like wait but why are you choosing the most nebis she loved like why why not I don't no, Jeff Goldblum or something. I thought I was Jeff Goldblum to her. It turned out I was Jerry Lewis. For Israelis, I can very plausibly imagine that they would have a fetish for Goyasha submissives. Like the self, the worship, the race worship is, you know, it's the inverse of what Israel was founded upon, which is the Jewish, including the sexual subjugation that came out of the Holocaust.

But, I mean, the weird stuff that you're talking about, Matt, is here's him in just maybe a few months ago talking. He went to Israel and he made this video. Power is the only way to do good in the world. That's what I learned from these hard, strong Israeli men. What's the only way to do good in the world? Power. Power. Just real quick, starting that video off with power is the only way to do good in the world.

Like, this is only, this is less than a year from the previous video. And already I'm like, uh-oh, I'm seeing a little bit of the Nazi stuff happening here. The word Nazi comes to mind. I mean, I would say too, like, the substance of what he says in his videos is, isn't that different from like what Lizzie Svetsky says or what Noah Tishby says or any of these people. It's like all different sort of outfits on the same rhetoric. What has been really interesting to me about Daniel Ryan Spalding is the flavor that he puts on it, which I find extraordinarily bizarre. This is what I was getting at a little bit earlier about how he surrounds himself with all of these like muscular sort of like roided out often.

white gay men and he doesn't look like them no and as a gay man who has navigated some of these spaces like when when you see clusters of gay men this is interesting to talk about but like when you see clusters of gay men in a nightclub setting or like this where it's like a gym on the beach situation sure just like and and they all look like this they're all extremely muscular they all look alike. They've all like shave their face the same way. They're like part of the in-group dynamic, like the most important part of the in-group dynamic there

is that like you are fuckable to the people present. Yes. And like as a gay man, I have been in these spaces where like I'm the odd one out. Like when I was in college, for example, one of my best friends was someone who could very easily navigate those spaces because he looked like that. and sometimes he would bring me along.

And I, especially at the time, was like this, like, scrawny boy with nails and makeup. Right. And so I was not taken seriously by the people at those parties or in those bomb shelters in the case of Dana Ryan Spalding. He's, like, filming himself in bomb shelters with muscular gay men. I wasn't taken seriously as a sexual object. So I was given much less attention by them. And it feels like, you know, like you're just not included.

like it felt very bad for me and so I just left but what I will say is if you can't be you know a sexual option to those types of people then you might be able to provide something else to them and take up this role of what I thought of myself as at the time which was like the court jester which was like oh like I'm like the femy little you know gay guy with like the nails and the makeup and like I and also like I have a bunch of Instagram followers so like isn't that cool and like look at me like I'll tap dance for you so like these like you know big sexy guys will you know allow me in their spaces and it's a really you know that was like I was like 20 and that sort of thing just made me feel so badly about myself

and I know I'm doing like I think I'm doing a very generous psychoanalysis of him but like Daniel Ryan Spalding like I think he in these spaces that he puts himself in now he is a court jester essentially but it's like it's like a genocidal court jester where he's like I will tap dance for you and you won't have sex with me, but you will allow me to like order vodka sodas from the same bar as you because like I'll include you in my Instagram video. That goes out to an audience of people that is also very curious to me because I don't know who these videos are for. Right. Yeah. I mean, I think I think you're you're not wrong in terms of like just the psychoanalysis especially around also his um, uh, the thing about his weight, you know,

because like it's like you said who he chooses to surround himself what is kind of saying a lot in terms of what he maybe thought about himself earlier on before he was before he had you know his weight loss journey and just his obsession with power the way he talks about it like his brand is I'm a power gay yes and that's the the whole thing and it is weird because when Someone says, like when I first heard him say that, I looked at it as kind of innocuous. It's just like, you know, power synonymous with like pride, synonymous with, you know, being comfortable with who you are and wanting to say it loudly. Now I'm just like, oh, he's a white power gay. Yeah.

I think the power gay thing, I had the same thing where it's like initially it's like, oh, like power gay, like the type of gay who would be on queer eye or something. Right. Like girl power, you know, like power being a good thing sometimes. But now it's very like there's like a third Reich sort of thing to it. But the other thing I'll say about the whole power gay thing. So if the listener isn't really familiar, like he'll start a lot of his videos, it'd be like, as a power gay at television pride or as a power gay in New York. And it's like gay people don't talk like that. Like I have met a lot of gay people in my day.

No one talks like that. It's like a, it's, it's like a middle-aged sort of like straight person's stereotype of a white gay man. It's very strange to watch. And I've thought, every time I watch his videos, I'm like, who is this for? And I think that is who it's for. I think it's mostly like suburban middle-aged Zionist, like straight women probably. Yeah. It's the Steve Bussamim, you know, except it's, you know, except it's,

Hello fellow sassy bitches or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Can we watch the rest? Yeah, oh yeah, because, you know, when you say who is this for, it could be for, you know, straight, you know, Tel Avivians. And that is possible, but it's, it's, it seems like such a small group of people. Like, just let's watch the rest of the video. Here is.

You see, Israel doesn't start wars. It also doesn't lose wars. Whining and being weak, that's not moral under Zionism. No, no, no. The way to do good in the world is by protecting yourself. That's why we're going to fucking take out that Islamic Republic. Khomeini, watch your fucking self. We're going to trash you.

We're going to destroy you. We're going to free the people of Iran. And tonight in our bomb shelter, we're organizing a gay sex party. He found a bomb shelter with air conditioning. Very breathable, very comfortable. The Iron Dome will protect us enjoying the power of raw, strong Israeli manpower. No weak...

Okay, so like... It's like, please stop. Just like, please, I don't want to hear more. This is like a gay bashing video. But it's so, it's so uncanny because it's, it's, it's, it's a parody of itself. Yeah. Like, nobody talks like this. And it sounds like a parody video.

Sounds like a sketch. Like, there's no weakness under Zionism. Yeah. And it's just, it's so offensive. Yeah. I mean, and it's, and I feel like if you spoke this way about any other group of men, they would be so offended by this. Yes.

But I guess Zionism is just so willing to accept anyone to do their bidding for them that they're like, yeah, fine, we'll take you. Especially if they are clearly right-wing fascists. And I think that is like, you know, the big difference that I think you see when it comes to like any other, like you said, any other group would be like offended by this. this. But, you know, Israel and Israelis, they do not shy away from, you know, partnerships with actual Nazis, with actual anti-Semites a lot of the time. They do shy away from gay partnerships and that gay marriage isn't legal there. Well, I mean, and that's the other thing is like,

then you're dealing with the fact that, you know, we're all, you know, sitting here pretending as if, uh, you know, Israel is, uh, a place in which it is like mecca. for all gay men of the world. Like, it's like a gay, a gay Zion as well, which is... I wonder how gay men are treated in the army. I can't imagine. I mean, and it's just like... Or how Palestinian gay men are treated by the army.

Well, there you go. Yes. I mean, you see it. They're blackmailed. They're used. Exactly. They're, yeah, they're blackmailed into collaboration often. Yeah.

It's just so strange. Like, because also, like, I, I've watched some of Daniel Ryan Spalding's videos, and he's always doing this. where he's kind of like circling around himself with the camera, like, almost in like a way that could make you seasick if you watched it for a long enough. Yeah, like sleazy feline movements where you're just like...

They have a contraption for that at Times Square. Have you seen it? Yes, exactly, exactly, where like the camera just like does circles around you. But like, I've seen him do this on, in various places in Manhattan, in the Fire Island Pines, like places that I've been. And I'm like, I can't imagine,

you standing in public, like, like, yelling these, like, white power screeds into your phone circling around like you're, like, drunk. I mean, it's very strange. I'm like, I don't know what I would do if I saw you on the Fire Island boardwalk. It's just, it's strange. Yeah, it's all of it is weird because it's like, it's, I mean, you know, it's almost like groundbreaking in a way where you're just kind of like, wow, like a gay, a gay Nazi feels, I don't, I don't know feels like a glass ceiling has been broken you know in some in some way and well i mean it's the lowest most a gay nazi that isn't getting that isn't getting purged right well yeah but it's like you're seeing the way he speaks too also mirroring a lot of like uh very uh foundational

uh you know zionist text like he sounds like he's doing like he's like uh like gay jabotinsky where the way in which he speaks about weakness. Jabba Twinsky, am I right? It's great. We can workshop that. We'll work on it. This is six out of ten. But like he speaks in ways that I've only ever seen like foundational Zionists talk about it,

where he is talking about almost like the new Jew. Yeah. And it's weird to see that from someone who is not Jewish because you're, you are, I mean, it's like, not that it's okay if you are Jewish to speak like that, but when someone isn't Jewish, it's really, it's like extra offensive. It's like extra like, it's, you can't do the lambs to the slaughter meme when you talk about like Holocaust victims as like going to the, you know, going like lambs to the slaughter, unlike these new Jews in Israel who vanquish our enemies.

If you're doing that as like a non-Jewish, person, I don't know, that's like double offensive. But it all comes together, doesn't it? Like what you Matt said, guest Matt said, about this, you know, the, I think compassionate, but often the compassionate psychoanalysis or the compassionate read on someone is the accurate one. It's not, you're not soft pedaling anything by getting inside the emotional world of it because that's where it's twisted, right? And the self-hatred that you're tracking in his system, in his energy, right, completely mirrors the self-hatred, the self-rejection that prompted people like Jabotinsky

to imagine a new Jew, because the old Jew was the kid who got called the F-word on the European school playground. Right, right, right. And now we're going to create a proud, new, buff, power Jew. And the two things absolutely cohere. They do. Yeah, I think, again, if you look at the end, high. entirety of his career, both its successes and its failures, which I'd call what he's doing

right now a success. I mean, he's been recognized by several government bodies for combating anti-Semitism, including the state of California. But, you know, you see, yeah, yes. I didn't know. My state? According to his website. So I don't know what the actual award was, but I know it came from the state. I think what he means is not that he got recognized by the state of California, but when he was in California, someone recognized. Recognized him like, hey, you stupid fuck. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That, like, genocide guy. Yeah, but, but I mean, this is someone who has always wanted to be on the side of power. Yeah. And as, as a fat, gay man, it can be hard to feel like you're on the side of power. So in the beginning of his career, it was making fun of hipsters, even though he, you know, probably socially would have benefited from, you know, you know, you know, like having solidarity with other people who are put on the margins of society for whatever reason, whether, you know, for whatever quirk or identity marginalization. And now you just see Zionism as a way for him to be, you know, powerful and to be on the side

of power. And so many of the worst people who do horrible things, especially like I just talk a lot about media grifters in my own work and on my own podcast. So much of it comes from a place of just, you know, when you talk about right-wing grifters, just not being that good at what they were doing before. I mean, a lot of them are failed actors. Daniel Ryan Spalding is a failed entertainer. And just wanting to be recognized for being good at something. I mean, Riley Gaines was, you know, a fifth-place swimmer.

Yes, yes. He was now first-place Fox News host. Right. And it's like seeing it, it's weird because it is, is, as you guys are saying, sort of like, you know, the Zionist ideology and microcosm for a very specific non-Jewish sect of people who are just like, they're marginalized in different ways. And they're looking at, you know, others in their same situation, whether it's other gay people or other anything and going like, you guys are doing it wrong because you, what you should be

doing is supporting power wherever it may lie. And it's weird to see it with him because his final destination, not unlike Lizzie Sivetsky, is full Zionist brain rot. And this is the most, not the most recent video, but a more recent video of him going just full insane. Here he is. I'm not scared either. The people of Israel aren't scared. The people of Iran are not scared.

Two ancient people, the Iranians and the Israelis, you know who should be scared? Those fucking jihadists sending missiles over here. Those fucking communists and Islamists and Marxist academics who have poisoned the West with their fucking anti-Zionist bullshit. The anti-Zionist Jews who betrayed their people, they should be scared. I mean, yes. I think about this so much. I mean, yes. Right?

Yes. Yes. I think about this so much because Zionism, much like Nazism, it's such an angry ideology rooted in violence and anger and placing human beings in a hierarchy. And you see this time and time again where people who really fervently devote themselves to these things, they start, I mean, especially with Zionism, not like they talk how Nazis spoke where it's just always like anger. I've seen this, you know, within my own family. And it's scary, quite honestly.

Kids do not buy poppers from someone you don't know. They may have slipped Zionism into it. Yeah, exactly. There's test strips now for any kiddie drugs to make sure there's no Zionism. Oh, we need some anti-Zionist Narcan. I straight up, dude. Well, maybe we can ask effie nephrine. Yeah, it's just, it's wild seeing.

It's wild seeing this is where it goes. And Matt, you know, I think you and I probably, I think a lot of us can relate to this feeling of like early on seeing the people that we knew who were falling into this and trying to talk to them, trying to like maybe reason with them in some way. And then realizing you can't break through and going, you know what, I'm just better to back away. and wait, and as stories started piling up of the realities in Gaza about what is happening,

that feeling of, you know, I should, I should check on those people to see, you know, if eventually I'm going to get an apology. Yeah. And then finding out, holy shit, it's gotten worse, you know? Yeah. Have you experienced, like, first, has any, has any. want to apologize to you yet um yes actually oh wonderful i've i've had a couple people apologize i think i've watched more people just sort of shift their beliefs without recognizing

what they may have been saying 22 months ago sure and look like i'm not you know in this for ego i would rather that happen than it not happen sure you're not the receipts police I'm not the receipts police, but we remember, we remember, we do. Don't forget. And, and, you know, I've been chipping away at people in my family and my childhood for a long time. And, you know, you can't do that with everyone in the whole world. But, like, I always hold out hope that that they'll come around. And I see some people who really have, especially, I think as people realize, like, that liberal Zionism is not a tenable ideology.

when you're watching like end game Zionism happen now and you're like oh there's nothing liberal about this right you've seen I have seen some people we talked about this on my podcast map you see some people are like wait okay Zionism's bad and I'm going to be an anti-Zionist

and you see some people go well I have to stay a Zionist so if I can't be liberal then I'm just going to be an avowed right-winged Zionist and you watch that happen too yeah but I have received a couple I have received a couple of It's nice that that's happened because it's so, it's so rare.

I mean, you know, it is, I'll be honest, like my expectation, you know, for myself and my wife was vastly overblown. We really thought, like, at some point, and we've received, you know, one apology from somebody who sent us a Golda Meyer quote. In their apology? No, no, no, no. It was, they sent it. And then later we're like, hey, I kind of realized that the last time we, you know,

spoke, I sent that quote about how, you know, it's like we'll never forgive them for making us kill their children. We can forgive Matt Lieb and Francesca Fiorentini for being anti-Zionists, but we can never forgive them for forcing us to break up with them as friends right and and you know they they did realize that okay so you know maybe that in in light of all the you know child murder maybe that uh didn't come off in the way that didn't age so well yeah but for the most yeah well there's this metaphor and i don't even know if it's like i don't even know if this is a real thing but it was something that was like said to me as a child, which is like if you put a frog, have you

heard this? Like if you put a frog in boiling water, it's going to jump out. But if you put a frog into a pot of water and slowly turn up the temperature until it's boiling, it will stay in and it will die. Right. Yeah. And I think about that with a lot of people I know who have clung to Zionism, even after all of this, where like, I feel like years ago, if I said to someone, you, you know, will you choose to support an ideology that has committed a genocide and live streamed it to the rest of the world? And we can see the bones of children, you know, we can see the shatters of a hospital. They would say, well, no, of course not. But what Israel has done is they've, you know, I won't say they've taken it from zero to 100 because there's been, you know, apartheid for 70

years. Right. Of course. Within the last two years, they, it's been like this, again, heavy air quotes, but like slow drip genocide that allows people to deny it and make excuses every step of the way. And so I do feel like it has been that pot has been turned up to boiling and I'm like looking around like whereas I at one point I thought, okay, these people are going to jump out at some point. They're going to jump ship and they and they haven't. Right. Yeah. Well, it's the crazy thing is the frog actually does jump out in real life. Yes. That cliche is not true. Right. But the crazy thing is, is, it's... Good for the frog, but... Yeah, good for the frog. The frog is smarter. Yeah, the frog is more moral. It's wild.

It brings to mine also for me the Milgram experiment. I don't know if you guys remember this from like introductory psychology, but they did a study, I guess, in the 60s or 70s of just how much evil people will be complicit in. And it was this thing where you're, you're, you're meant to believe that you're delivering electric shocks to a person in the next room when they give incorrect answers. And the level to which, because they graduated it up very, very slowly from just a, to screaming and pleading for mercy coming from the next room. And of course, it was faked. But a shocking number of people kept going and kept going because they had developed a certain tolerance and because they were being told you have to do this. These are the rules.

The experiment won't work if you don't. So, this kind of graduated complicity or moral numbing that happens allows people to take things much further than they ever would have imagined. Right. Yeah. And you see, you know, like if you're not going to be convinced by, you know, however many thousands and thousands of people that you, and people you know personally who are telling you, no, for real, supporting Israel is supporting genocide like maybe and this is i know a fool's hope but maybe my hope is that you look at someone like daniel ryan spalding as like this very obvious cautionary tale where you go like the end point of this belief structure is that uh your you know that anything can be justified

under the veil of well i'm doing this for me and for the protection of my own like anything can be justified and you need to ask yourself like am do i want to be that that crazy online you know like do i this the very least ask yourself do i want to look that insane and you want to end up a power goy right exactly you know i mean this listen i understand that there are people who want to um be be allies but there's a way to do it in which you don't support genocide. Yeah. But yeah.

I totally agree. And again, I think that like people like Daniel Ryan Spalding, people like Lizzie Svetsky, they're crazy. But they're also kind of valuable because you can point to someone like that and be like, this is the end point. Yes. And they're very, it's so mask off. And you have relatively more popular.

people like Noah Tishby, who sort of dress it up with this very calculated, like, CNN voice. Yes. And, like, you know, I pretend to care about liberal democracy or whatever. But the belief system will yield you, will lead you to a place where you are screaming into a camera about how mass death of brown people is justified because it allows you to take care of your own. And even on the level of venal vanity, if you want to appeal to someone, you could say, both in the case of Lizzie and Daniel Ryan Spalding,

boy, oh boy, these people just got uglier over the past couple of years, didn't? Yes, yes. I mean, it's stomach turning. You can't look at them anymore. Right, because you see, you see it. It's almost physical where you can see it on their face. You see the like, it's not just age.

It's like, I don't know, it's a darkness that like comes out in crow's feet. There's no foundation for that. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah, Lizzie's lucky because her husband is a plastic surgeon. I know. I know. That's why she's like, I'm expecting some soul degradation to start showing up on my features.

I got to marry someone who knows how to fix that. Isn't that right, Lizzie? Thank you. Oh, and with that, I want to say, you know who else is great? Matt Bernstein. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast and talking with us. This is so fun. This is like my inner dialogue, but we get to do it out loud.

I love it. Thank you so much for having me. Of course. If you guys want to hear me chirp more, a bit fruity, anywhere you get podcast. Yes. Please listen to A BitFruity, watch A BitFruity. There's going to be a link in the show description. It's a really great show.

And if you haven't seen it yet, you could watch our episode that we did together about the anti-Semitism panic. And you've just done, you've done so much great work. And truly, thank you for, thank you for the work you've been doing for speaking out. And thank you for coming on this podcast. Thanks so much for having me. Of course. Patreon.com slash bad hasbara. Badhasbara at gmail.com for all your questions, comments and concerns.

All right, everyone. Thanks again so much for listening. And until next time, from the, river to the sea. I'm coming out fascistically. Stop embarrassing me. Stop embarrassing me in front of my friends. Jumping Jackson was us.

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