Bad Hasbara - The World's Most Moral Podcast - 148: Dispatch From Gaza, with Ahmed Sarsour

Episode Date: October 5, 2025

Matt and Daniel are joined by poet Ahmed Sarsour live from Deir al Balah in Gaza to hold forth on the reality of daily life in a war zone, hopes for the future, and making art in the midst of chaos.We had a few technical issues given the precarity of the connection, and you’ll notice that Matt exits early without notice due to his own tech mishap, but we’re all happy to bring you word directly from Gaza this week.Please donate to Hussein Team: https://chuffed.org/project/138529-urgent-appeal-support-displaced-families-in-gazaFind Ahmed online at https://linktr.ee/ahmedsarsour“Walls, Windows, and a Door,” by Ahmed Sarsour: https://drive.google.com/file/d/10m55Ys_Z1t_rXbhTpp0JMq99TZrMtGF9/view?usp=drivesdkJoin the patreon at https://www.patreon.com/badhasbaraBad Hasbara Merch Store:https://estoymerchandise.com/collections/bad-hasbara-podcastGet tickets for Francesca Fiorentini, Matt Lieb and friends with Daniel Maté October 13 in Brooklyn: https://bit.ly/mattfranbellhouseSubscribe to the Patreon https://www.patreon.com/badhasbaraWhat’s The Spin playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/50JoIqCvlxL3QSNj2BsdURSubscribe/listen to Bad Hasbara wherever you get your podcasts.Spotify https://spoti.fi/3HgpxDmApple Podcasts https://apple.co/4kizajtSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/bad-hasbara/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Mashwam hot bitch, We invented the cherry tomato And weighs USG drives and the iron d'all Israeli salad, oozy, stent, and javas orange crows Micro chips is us, iPhone cameras us, taco salads us Pothas, Bodhaamos us, olive garden us, white foster us, Zabrahamas, Esvaras us Hello, everybody, and welcome to Bad Hasbara.

A very special episode of the world's most moral podcast. That's right. My name is Matt Lieb. I will be your most moral co-host for this podcast. I'm Daniel Mate, your other most moral co-host. I put the co-in co-host. That's right. And I put the host in Parasite.

So thank you so much for watching. Thank you for subscribing. Shout out to our producer, Adam Levin. This is going to be the shortest intro, I think, that we've ever done because of the fact that we have an amazing guest today that I want to get right to introducing. First, before we start, I do want to shout out today's sponsor. Today's episode is brought to you by Hussein team for aid in Gaza. The Hussein team is a grassroots volunteer initiative in Gaza, providing urgent relief to those suffering. in displacement camps and shelters across the Gaza Strip.

The group is currently providing freshly prepared meals for displaced families and shelters and camps, emergency cash assistance to families with no means of support, infant and maternal necessities and many more urgent interventions based on daily needs assessments. You can donate right now at the link on your screen. It's in the description. Click it. Please donate. Give some money if you can. again short intro we're not spinning today today we're in the no spin zone

there's we're got more important things more important matters than what records I'm listening to well to be fair I don't think there's anything more important than that but there are things that are of equal importance and yeah no today we have an amazing guest from Gaza he is there right now he is a Palestinian Sudanese poet ladies and gentlemen and everyone else please welcome ahmed sarsur hey hi there how you don't buddy i am okay alive is still how are you guys alhamdulillah yeah what he's said yeah yeah i've heard i've heard that phrase uh i don't know what it means but you know i i i've it sounds pretty sick what does that mean i think it's the equivalent of baruchashem right does

mean thanks be to god oh Is it? Yes, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, David Pugat. Oh, hell yeah.

Thanks, be to God indeed. And thanks be to you for coming on the podcast. You know, obviously this is a podcast in which we talk, you know, for almost, I mean, we started in December 24. And we talk about, oh, yeah, that's right, 2023. Time in my head is totally messed up. And, of course, you know, focusing exclusively on, you know, the genocide that's happening. And we have spoken to many Palestinians on the show, but not anyone who has been in Gaza.

This is our first time talking to someone live on the podcast who's there. Close as we've gotten as we did an interview with someone live on a boat trying to get to Gaza. And as we record this, those boats are being intercepted. Yes. Wow. Yeah. Which one was that? The Samud Flotilla.

We did an episode with Greg Stoker, who is a repeat guest of ours who is currently on. He's a U.S. military veteran. He's on a boat of U.S. veterans. Veterans who are trying to get to Gaza with humanitarian aid alongside the 45 other boats that, you know. Israel will do anything to stop the baby formula that they're carrying. Yeah. But we have so many questions. Definitely.

Ahmed, I mean, look, you're speaking to two very sheltered North Americans with a lot of other, you know, a diverse array of listeners, but many of our listeners are living in parts of the world where we don't have to worry about our homes exploding or starvation. and there isn't a genocide going on around us. Virtually everyone who listens to this podcast is outraged and deeply upset and heartbroken by what's happening to your people. And, you know, this seems almost ridiculous to say,

but we are so sorry for what you are going through and the people of Gaza are going through. But for all of our goodwill and, yes, of course. But for all of our meaning well and feeling deeply about it, there's a lot we don't know and there's a lot we remain ignorant of because A, we're not there. B, we get stuff filtered to us through all kinds of different places and there's a lot

of confused. So we may ask you some questions that may seem very basic, but that's the level at which we sometimes need to come in so that we can actually understand your reality because we want our empathy to be informed and our outrage to be informed. So, yeah, Matt, where do you want to start? I want to start off with. how is how is it going see I'm not a good interviewer

how are things right now it's the middle of the night it seems in Gaza how are you feeling how secure do you feel in this moment and where are you physically okay it is 9 15 PM at the moment

today was a very hectic day to be honest my auntie passed away and we have been at a funeral. Yeah, all day long. She has been sick for almost three to five months now. And you know with a bad medical health and hospital and system here after, it's not real, after Israel, why I'm saying it's not real like I am used to this. Because on TikTok, they banned my account.

So sorry. But yeah, because if anyone, if any guest has earned the right to say, is not real, or literally call it anything you want. Yeah. In fact, we usually ask, what do you prefer? Is not real or is for hell your choice, you know? Yeah. Or Satan's, Satan's workshop or, you know, whatever you want to call it.

Satan's ass. Satan's asshole, yeah. Yes. Satan's ass-row. Yeah, they bombed almost all the hospitals. So there's, she hasn't been medicated, like, well enough. I believe, like, my sister, she came here today from Khan Yunus. She, like, lives in another city.

And I heard her talk with my dad. My dad is a doctor as well. My daughter, my sister. And they were talking that there have been a substance in her internal organs. and they don't think they attended to it because of the hospital situation and this is what caused the death. But we can't be sure, of course, because, like, no one is ordering autopsy here or something because, you know, like, there is no time to do this kind of stuff. But, yeah, today was a very hectic day, and she was, like, dear to my heart.

She's my older aunt. She's the oldest of her siblings. How old was she, Ahmed? I believe she was 79 years old. She witnessed the Nekba. I remember how she was talking about this when she said the Israeli soldiers came and they ordered them to evacuate

and how she carried her little sister, my other aunt, and how they came in foot here to the Middle Area and there in Balah. they were living where did they have to evacuate from where did they live what what's their where in Palestine they live they were working as

farmers and Beir Chiva bear Sabaa yeah and so they were living there but then when the Nakba happened they got evacuated and came back here to our hometown it is in the middle area of G Street but it's called

Dar al Balah I am currently now in Dera al Balah in my actually in the house that my grandma was living. It's not even finished. Like, oh, if you can see the walls behind it, they are even gray, like cement walls, like there is no bent on them because I have been living in Sudan for 21 years and we didn't have like a stable home here in Gaza. And for those who don't know me, I am Palestinian, but I have been in Sudan for 21 years. We have been living there with my mom, my dad and my sisters, which came back in 2016.

here to which came back here in 2012 to Gaza and got married in 2016 but yeah I think that's where I am physically and how I am feeling right well so where you you know you said you were past 26 years in Sudan when did you uh oh 21 years um yeah I was in Khartoum okay the the capital the capital of Sudan yeah yeah have you ever you see your Sudanese and Palestinian have you ever wished that you had like a third country to be from that has been completely and totally screwed over by the world like maybe being Palestinian Sudanese East Timorese or something like that just to round out the right yeah to get the three the big three well to be honest I wish to not be Palestinian

like for my whole life I think I wish that because Whenever we wanted to go somewhere, like other countries, they were saying that they don't accept Palestinians. If you don't know this about the Middle Eastern countries, they are not actually a big fans of Palestinian. Right, they're not real allies. Yeah, we are not even allowed to go to some countries like in the Middle East. So I was wishing for a few years if I wasn't born in Palestinian because this is the whole reason why I got to evacuate Gaza in 2020. to go back to go to Sudan to seek a decent life because like here, the situation in Gaza

wasn't decent living for any human being. Like the worst, this wasn't the first war, like the thing that they keep saying that it started on the 7th of October, which is not, obviously, it started long ago. It started before 78 years when the NACBA happened and when they started this state, like the regime that they called Israel and how they say that this land is being promised to them

like 2,000 years ago, but they just remember themselves like 76 years ago, like what the hell? Yeah. And you moved from Khartoum to Gaza when, most recently? Like, yeah, we started the journey on the 28th of May for 2023. The war, the civil war that started in Sudan, it started on the 15th of April of 2023. We stayed there for almost six weeks, and then the situation got really severe and there, so we couldn't survive. And when we decided to get evacuated, like get out of Sudan, we didn't find anywhere to go back to go to Egypt or, like, other African countries, but the road was really bumpy and so long. So it was easier for us to go to Egypt. and when we arrive at the border between Egypt and Sudan,

which is called the Argin border, they asked us for $5K dollars per person to get the visa to enter Egypt. And the four of us, we were going to pay like $20K dollars, which we didn't have at that time. Then the embassy meddled and said they can evacuate us here to Gaza, the embassy of Palestine in Cairo. And so they gave us like three passage, but they said that we are not to sit any foot on the Egyptian lands.

Like we were even accompanied by tanks, by police cars, by military vehicles all the time. Yeah, yes, it was so weird. Like, we were only 11. We were like the last bus that evacuated Sudan from Palestinian, from Palestinians that were living in Sudan. We were only 11, and I believe three of us were kids, and us the four, and then, like, other four. so yeah it was really and in 2023 of all times to evacuate one war zone you know to go to another one there's like just so much like comic irony in that where you're just like oh good we're in Gaza right before October 7th when October 7th happened um like what what was your feeling you know being in

Gaza? You know, what, how did you feel as at that moment? Yeah, well, the war started four months after we arrived here. I arrived here on the first of June of 2020. And to be honest, it felt like a dream or more of like a nightmare. The war that started in Sonan, it started on Saturday Day. And the war here in Gaza also started on a Saturday. day. So I was asleep at that time. I think I woke up to the sounds of missiles and bombs. It was almost like 5 a.m. or like 6 a.m. in the morning. And I keep saying in the morning. Yeah, a.m. So it felt like a dream. Like I felt like I am still in Khartoum. Was this on October 8th? Was this October 8th the day after the... No, October 7th. They were like missiles on October 7 as well. But I can't remember if they were coming from Gaza to like going to Israel or like the opposite.

Like we just woke up to the sounds of missiles and bombs, you know, because like we are adjacent to the Israeli state like Okabai territories as well. Like even there is the nearest place, like the nearest city to the Israel territories here in Palestine. How far of a walk to the wall is it from where you are? 10 minutes. The so-called border. 10 minutes? Yes. It's not that far.

Yeah, I think it's less than two kilometers. Yeah, less than 2 kilometers from where I'm living. And so you're in the same place, or at least the same town that you're in on October 7th that you are now. Yes, correct And have you had to Have you had to move around? I mean, a lot of people that, you know, we know and we have seen who are currently in Gaza,

you know, Mosen, who is someone who we've worked with, you know, doing fundraisers for recently put out like his, you know, trajectory since October 7 in terms of all of the times that he has had to move. Has that been your experience as well? Yeah, no. Al-Handah, no. Like the middle area here, especially city of Dar al-Belah, like the last time they have been evacuation orders for the half of my city,

but it wasn't like in the area that I am living in. So I didn't have to evacuate like a role, thank God. But we received a lot of displaced families, like my aunties, my sisters, our in-laws. And even now, we are sheltering one of my aunts still with us. But, yeah, we didn't get to evacuate. And if we were to go outside with you right now, what would we be looking at? What would we see?

What's the condition of your neighborhood, your city? You know, we hear about an enormous percentage of civil infrastructure, residential buildings destroyed. We've seen the pictures from above. What are you surrounded by? and how far are you from the nearest violence? Well, the nearest violence is less than 50 meters away. Like, we were here when it happened. And actually, I was supposed to go to that house when it got bombed.

I think it was on the 10th or 11th of October, on 2021-3. Like this house, they were selling water, like drinkable water. And that day, we were running out of water. my mom, and I was supposed to go and fill the water gallons. But my mom, for some reason, she said that she's craving macaronia and she likes the macaroni that I make. So I stayed with her in the kitchen and we were making the macaroni and then the apartment happened, like it was a missile.

And then the whole house, it was filled with this dark fumes and dust because, like, it is near by house, only 50 meters away from us. and thank God that day I didn't die and also there's another house and there's also another house which is like 200 meters away from us that got bombed and then the mosque of my neighborhood

got bombed recently as well in there is so close to us and also in the street that I always walk by to go to the market they got they sent two missiles twice they were targeting some people there so yeah there is some

Have there been Israeli tanks and soldiers in your streets? In my streets, no, but pretty close to my neighborhood. They were in, I think they reached Al-Birka, Al-Birka Street. I don't know if you have heard of it. Like there's a school that is called Al-Masra, like the farm school, and they reach there. It is like 1.5 kilometers away from my home,

but it still is kind of far, so I didn't see any tanks. Yeah. I mean, the images that we have seen through our phone screens have been unimaginable. And so, you know, it's like an extra layer of unimaginableness actually being there. You yourself seeing things with your own eyes. And what's interesting about what it sounds like your situation is here in, is it, D.R. L. Bella, is that how you pronounce it? With that, with that age at the end that you have...

I'm doing my... Yeah, you know, I try. I try. It's okay. I got your first name, though, pretty good. Ahmed, I did that, good, right? No, it'd be great. Yeah. But it sounds like your neighborhood or, you know, the town is, of course,

is experiencing, you know, a lot of destruction as well. I'm not discounting that, but there's an interesting feeling from what it sounds like of not having the evacuation orders happen there. It's like been avoided thus far. What is your, I mean, what is it like from, you know, before October 7th to now? Because now it's, is it like in terms of population, how many, you know, how, how, different is it? Is it just, is it filled with people? Do people, have people come there in droves or are they still going all around? Yeah, well, it is, it is so crowded. Like, uh, my house, like it is in a side street. So, and there's no other houses like after us, like we are the last house in that side

street. And like before October 7th, like no one, no one goes into this street like at all. only if someone is coming to visit us. But like six, I think, a year ago, when the evacuation of the North happened and Raffah, like in this side street, when I want to go to the market, I see from 50 to 100 people, like inside this side street. But when I get to the main street, like in front of my eyes, like I can see more than 1,000.

And when I get into the market, I believe I can see more than 5,000 to 10,000 at the same time on the street. Like even today when I went to the funeral, like it was so crowded we couldn't even move. Like we had to wait in lines in the street for people to get passes and to walk. Like we were like taking baby steps to get to our destination. It is so, so crowded. And even people like they are, if you are to get to the main street now, even people like, they have their tents in the main street now

because there's no place to go. So they live on the street now. They set up their tents and they sleep in it and it's in the main street. And when to go to any empty land, there's no empty lands nowadays. All is being occupied by people coming from the north. And all of this puts you in a,

I imagine an odd position because you're in, the most beleaguered, you know, acutely, one of the most suffering places on earth, if not the most, and yet you are in a relatively fortunate position. You have a home, you know, you're talking to us with some internet. I'm sure it's not consistent. We're very lucky to be talking to you. What was, I guess the question is how, how is that for you?

And how is it dealing with, the different like because we think of Gaza as everyone is in the same situation everyone's in the same boat but there's different compartments on the boat yeah so what are the complications of that and i'm sure i'm sure gaza society was already you know dealing with inequality all places all societies do but what's it like for you and do you have any stories about being in the position well honestly for me myself like i feel guilty sometimes that I am still fortunate like this and that I can't offer for people to come to stay with us.

We did try to offer this for a lot of people, like we even have a property, it's not that big, like only 500 square meters, and we opened it for the people, and now we are sheltering their like 20 families or so. But what you are saying here, like the question, what you are aiming at, it is happening. Like, people here sometimes they envy each other and some people like even hold grudges against each other because like, you know, we are being infiltrated. Like there's

some Israeli spies here. I know some people don't like to hear that. But yeah, there's some people who are still who are working and they are spies to Israel and they have been fortunate because like some some people are still having electricity since the 7th October. Like they have this massive solar panels and they're running on this. Like us, we forgot the taste of meat, the taste of chicken. We didn't have electricity since the 7th of October. And we didn't have water all the time. We are like suffering to get water.

And yet, but yes, I am fortunate, but I am not that. Like, there's some people are more fortunate than us. And those people are raising a lot of questions around them. Because, like, people always question where do they get that, from where they have this kind of money from where they get their electricity why they always have running water you know yeah so yeah well i mean i mean anyone who knows the history of what happened to my people matt's people in europe anyone who knows anything about human beings under conditions that human beings shouldn't have to face imposed by other human beings

knows that it creates rivalry and envy and distrust and suspicion and competition. You treat people like quote-unquote human animals, as Yoav Galant called you, and you will reduce them to the conditions where they have to compete for scarce resources, and it's not anyone's fault except the people imposing that. It's literally the objective, it's the main objective of a siege. That's what a siege is. That's the point of a siege is to cut off a people, cut them off from supplies, from food, from, you know, water, from anything you can do, and get them the people of themselves to go at each other like that. This is what sieges are historically, with the added, of course, indignity of it also being a genocidal siege.

If you're feeling any guilt right now, I invite you to, like, send some art. away. Like, we can handle, we deserve over here in America, the country that's paying for your fucking immiseration. Yeah. We'll take some of your guilt off your hands. Yes. That's ours. Yeah, it is. And it's always interesting talking about guilt with, you know, especially since it's like, you know, we're asking you, someone who is currently in the midst of a genocide who got to it by fleeing from a civil war you know do you feel bad it's like crazy of course yeah um yeah but it's a little human beings are still crazy like at all times you know and some people like they can't even see the struggles that we have been like we have endured like uh i don't like to talk about this but

and i don't think i even bring it up on any of my interviews but like uh we come from a very comfortable family. Like we're not super rich, but al-handallah, we were always comfortable. Like my mom, she's a pharmacist, my dad, he's a gynecologist, my two sisters are a gygonolic colleges, my brother, he's a little doctor, and my brother are engineers. And we have always had money. Like we never ask anyone to give us anything. We never reach our hand to like to beg for anything, you know. And even when we arrived here, like people were thinking that we arrived with a lot of fortune because like we didn't complain or like we didn't ask people to help us even when we got here to Gaza, you know. And the thing that people

don't know that my dad before like evacuated Sudan like two years before 2023, he put all of our money savings into a project there in Sudan. It was like he bought a property and this is what left us broke. This is why we couldn't even afford to go to Egypt and Beda 20K. And also when we, yeah, we were faced with the same fate here in Gaza. A friend, my friend, she's working for a NGO. She's Mexican. She reached out to me and she was like questioning why I am still in Gaza. Like she knows like I am from a comfortable family why I am not being evacuated. So when I asked, when we told about the situation, she started this campaign for me like a go family campaign and we didn't, we couldn't reach the goal.

but then people saw that we are asking for money on the internet for the first time and then some people got envies of us although for me like I wasn't even helping myself for me I was helping my family I needed to evacuate my parents because they like they are elderly and sick and I wanted like to get evacuated as all because like this is not alive and then my sister gave birth one time and then a second time during the war and their houses got destroyed and then my aunties their houses got destroyed and I started these different campaigns for everyone and I was I wished I hoped for the people to see the kind of work that I am doing on the internet that I wanted to see I wanted them to see that I'm not

doing this for only myself. Hey, we're back. You may have noticed that we look different and that is because we're we switched to a Zoom call because we were having some connectivity issues. When we left off, what were we talking about? Let's not worry about what we were talking about. Let's just find a new gear. Let's find a new gear. Yeah.

So Ahmed, you know, there's so many things happening that we pay attention to on this show. We're trying to pay attention to what we can gather about the situation. on the ground where you are then we're looking i mean this show is all about propaganda hasbara which i'm sure a word you guys are familiar with it's the you know israeli excuses justifications explanations and falsehoods that justify what's happening to you uh or they're trying to use it to justify it and then there's the american and global politics that greatly influences it besides the day-to-day existence of and which i imagine must take up like an incredible amount of energy.

Most of it. Most of it, in fact. How much energy do you or do most Palestinians? And again, probably it's not worth me asking you, what about most Palestinians? Because you're you're you. You know, you're not, it's not a monolith. It's not, you don't speak as one. But what are you or people you know paying attention to

outside of the walls of Gaza that makes the biggest difference to your daily life, if anything. Are you paying attention to what's going on internal to the settler colony and their Israel, their politics, American politics, humanitarian missions like the flotilla? What's on your mind when you think about, when you have the luxury of time and energy to think about what's going on outside the cage you're in? Yeah. Well, as you said, we are different human beings and we differ like one dozen

from another, but I have been following a lot of journalists and writers, artists here on the ground in Gaza. And yes, most of them, like, they have different opinions and different point of views. For me, personally, the only thing that I was focusing on, it was, like, to stop the war and break the siege. I have been asking people to come and tear down the walls themselves, like the borders. I have been asking for March to Gaza for ages, and I believe they answered the call, but it wasn't a success. And then I kept asking them for military intervention, and I believe recently a Colombia president said he will be sending troops, but he's waiting for another allies to join forces with him to start doing that. And then the Madeline ship came and then Han Dala and now the Samudai, and now the Samud.

the flotilla also coming to break the siege and bring a lot of aid in. And me personally, I am so excited and so hopeful about this. The first time when the medley-ship was coming, I was even awake until like 2 a.m. And I was like watching them live. And then around 2 a.m., like 15 a.m., they were intercepted. And there have been like these quadcopters that were roaming theirs. and then the Israeli soldiers got on board and they threw their phones in the sea. When the Handala ship came, to be honest, I haven't paid any attention to it.

Like, I didn't even watch the news. We were so busy back then because, like, the situation was getting worse and worse. And my sisters back then were evacuating on units and they came to stay with us. So we were really busy with everything that's happening on the ground. So, as I said, watching the news from outside of Gaza and trying to comprehend the political atmosphere like in the U.S. or, like, different countries, it is a luxury that most of us don't have. We only have it when we have access to the Internet if we have our phones charged and if we have, like, a slow day or, like, an easier day. Because, like, most of these days are really, really hard. like if you want to cook a meal you have to cook it in fire and start to prepare for it so early in the day before like it gets dark because like we have no electricity from since the 7th of October and I remember how are you charging your phones and getting any battery power what do you what do you do for that well some of our neighbors they have solar panels from before the war started these are the

kind of comfortable ones but since we haven't been here like we don't have any solar panels so we used to rely on the kindness of our neighbors and we are still are but nowadays my aunties who's displaced with us they already have a solar panel and they are yeah they are charging our phones for us but it doesn't last for too long and the battery that they're using it has been used for it has been used for like two years now and it's running out you know out of it's full power and full capacity and i have been actually thinking to buy some but like the prices like they multiplied by i believe in times like 20 times like it one solar ban it used to cost less than 200 dollars and nowadays it it costs from 2 000 to 3 000 which is

insane. Crazy. And can I ask you a question about money in general? Yeah, of course. How is cash being used? How are people paying for food and how is there even like it's hard for me and many of us to even think about it any sort of economic system existing there? Is it a continuation of the previous economic system or has some sort of, you know,

completely situation-specific kind of economy sprouted up since October 7th? Well, this is a tough one. I don't know how to explain this, but I would try my best to give you that image. Remember how I mentioned earlier that there's some people are still like our spies and working with Israeli state. So, most of, like, the rumor has it. I am not really sure of this, but this is what I hear, like, I only arrived here. like almost two years ago, so I don't know all about what is happening here on the ground.

This is what I got. Some of the traders here, like they're working with Israel, and they are the ones who are multiplying the prices, and they even, like, withdrawing the cash from the market. Like nowadays, suddenly they started using the bank account, like there's a transfer, like if you are using, like you are using your visa car, something like nowadays they're using only like digital transfers there's no actual cash that is being used or dealt with between the trader and buyer and like three

I think three months ago for like almost six months when the borders got closed in March they stopped using with using that they were only dealing with cash and this is how they got it all from the market and the prices went from like the normal prices and multiply it to 100 even sometimes like one kG of sugar it used to cost only like half a dollar imagine that it reached to one hundred dollar during that six months half a kilogram yeah for one key yeah one kilogram of sugar and even the flour it used to cost only the 25 cents and it reached to almost 80 dollars and people were like they didn't have any like there's no resources

and most of the people were relying on the UNRWA and the aid that is coming in and they were cutting all of these kind of stuff and even Trump when he went into office, I believe he withdrew some of the money that is coming to the UNRWA and he was trying to forbid them from working here in the

G-strip. Right. Yeah and even us like I believe that there have been this period that we bought the flower when it reaches like $40. As well, so expensive. And some other families, as I said, like they bought it when it reached $80 and stuff like that and such a sort. So it's really insane. But nowadays, the only thing that they are

dealing with is like the digital transfers, as I said, from bank accounts, and they're trying to withdraw the cash. And also there's some traders that actually, most of them are thieves, and they are drug dealers. There's a drug market here. They have been, I think they caught up some cargo that is coming of drugs that are coming inside of G-strip multiple of times, but obviously there's some that got in. And these are the people who are also dealing with a lot of cash. When you go like, what is that, the exchange, like there's these coins, the exchange, they're trying also to take it from the market. Now if you want to, like, let's say that you have 50 shekels that you want to, to have an exchange like in those coins they will give you almost 35

shakles an exchange of these 50 chequels so they take like 30% out of that money and also if you want to withdraw your bank account and have it in cash they will take 35% to 50% I remember like recently I somebody like the Waterloo Friends region of Palestine in Canada they sent me $1,000 to help some families in need here in Gaza like some of my relatives and I did a BRID initiative

that $1,000 when I got it in cash it was only $667 so they took 35% out of that money Yeah, this is what I've been dealing with with Mosen as well in doing those

fundraisers is finding out that like finding out that the money that we raise is already immediately being cut almost in half by just, if not processing fees through whatever digital coin market we're using. The rest is through the scoundrels and thieves who are basically taking huge chunks of people's money if they want to try to get it in cash. Well, let me ask you a question about hunger. I just, you know, as we were recording this, I noticed, oh, I didn't eat lunch today.

I didn't have time. I was cleaning up and I forgot to eat. And I'm thinking, man, I'm hungry. And sometimes we here in the privileged world will use expressions like, oh, man, I'm starving. I'm famished. You know, and my mind will still do that just automatically. And then I look at you and I realize where you are. And I guess what I'm wondering is what's your experience been like of, and also I should say, the day we're recording this in a couple of hours, the Jewish festival of Yom Kippur will start, where religious Jews, I'm not one of them, will be fasting for 24 hours.

And Jews are supposed to be contemplating about our sins and what we've done wrong and experiencing hunger for a day, no food, no sex, none of that. and I'm just wondering how many of my fellow Jews here in North America or anywhere else in synagogues will be using their experience of 24-hour hunger to think about people who are suffering hunger for much longer, but that's a separate question. What's your experience of hunger been, and what are you, what's the, what's hunger like around you? What have you seen and experienced around that, if that's not too difficult a question to answer? Yeah, of course. As I said, we are a fortunate family. We have been comfortable our whole lives, and we were running out of money, to be honest, and resources. But my sisters, they have been blessed, and one of them, she started like this work with, I think, UKMSA of the children and others started the work with the American, I think, doctors without borders.

like giving us monthly allowance, but still like this money we were using to buy less than the necessities and the basic needs. Like we stopped having dinner for like I think four months or like five months during that period that I told you about when they closed the border from March until like a month ago. We were having only two meals per day, which was huge for some cousins here like some cousins only survived on one meal per day and sometimes like one meal per two days. So we were fortunate

al-a-a-l-a-l-l-a, like all the team is. But we were rationing also the bread. We were only having only one love of bread per meal like me and my brother and my mom and my dad. And we were surviving most of the days on the rice that comes from

kitchen. Kitchens that deliver aid like we used to have this rice daily and we will only buy cucumbers and tomatoes and make a salad as the main dish. I was going to say like as a side dish, but actually that was the main dish. Like we will have rice and salad and that was like the meal we were having for lunch. And we were surviving on this for like three to four months. And some other days we will only have macaroni, which like, you know, like macaroni is like

being digested so fast and we will get hungry but I counted a lot of nights that I went to bed hungry but instead of like going to fetch something and that might take from the other day from the next day I just went to bed and slept because like we will not be affording to have three meals per day but still as I said we were more fortunate that and other families we were having two meals per day. And even today, to be honest, like I did have lunch and the 8th kitchen started to work again and they got us this macaroni and to be honest, and I shouldn't be saying that. And we are still being starved and everything.

But we couldn't eat it because like it is tasteless. It doesn't taste like anything. We couldn't hear at all. Maybe the biggest, like, I hope the chef isn't listening. It was just like, listen, I know we're in a famine, but please. We were forced to eat it. But nowadays, like, there's some other options and the prices are dropping. So we went and we bought some cheese and some luncheon.

We had that. But I got, like, when I remember the, these six. months that we were surviving on this kind of food and we only like we only bake one kilogram of flour per day it was insane to be honest like not being able to eat whatever that you crave like I already told us like we forgot how the meat and chicken taste like and even eggs like it was for like eight months now we didn't have any eggs and like also like natural cheese like some people used to have to make cheese locally here we didn't have any kind of that as well we only eat canned food nowadays even

though the prices are dropping but the only things that in the market is canned food and feta cheese which I also can't I believe in a way yeah I mean it sounds very much like that particular period lines up almost perfectly with um the time in which the uh Gaza humanitarian foundation um you know basically Unra being kicked out, everything, all aid being funneled into like four specific, you know, places, you know, where the GHF was gunning down and continues to gun down people, up until when there was finally public outcry to the pictures of starvation and whatnot. And it sounds like now the options are a little bit better because of, hopefully, I mean, I'm making an assumption here, but, because of possibly the pressure, you know, this is kind of what the Israeli government seems to do, is they stretch as long as they can, you know, the ability for Palestinians to eat, control, you know, calories, control food going in and out until, and then letting just enough loose

so that they, you know, can claim otherwise, especially, yeah. Yeah, I believe the United Nations announced that there's Star Vision in, Gaza this is why they started getting it in right also it wasn't enough and it still is not not enough by the way even nowadays like we are struggling to find something to eat like we are sick of eating canned food like we were to surviving on fava beans and hummus for how long now and even for a month we we didn't have any fava beans and hummus and we were like craving it although we were having for six months yeah I mean there's something

particularly disgusting about the fact that, you know, the starvation is allowed to go on for so long until finally there's institutions like the New York Times or the UN saying, hey, I think there's some starvation going on. There's been enough starvation. We need. Right. And then there's a little too much starvation around. Can we have a little less starvation?

And then that pressure does cause the Israelis to lift some restrictions or get just a tiny bit more food in. You know, it's like, oh, so we should really, I mean, of course, the blame being on the Israelis, but also on the Western institutions as well. It just feels, I don't know, it feels particularly evil that anyone would hold off on talking. I want to ask you a question about the resistance and the state of the, you know, I don't like calling it a war, but whatever we call this, you know, the armed conflict is really assault on Gaza and the Palestinian resistance to it. I guess I have two related questions. One is more immediate and one is more sort of general or long term. There's this talk of this new peace plan. I mean, every week there's a new peace plan and, you know, Netanyahu will come to Washington

and have a meeting and nod his head and say, yes, with this war could end tomorrow, he said that to the UN. Then he comes back to Israel and says in Hebrew to his audience, of course we're never going accept this we'll never you know but what's the mood on the ground and again i'm asking you a general question that you can't possibly answer for all two million or however many are left people there but what's what are you seeing around you or hearing or how are you feeling about the you know the the the offers that are on offer and whether or not you know obviously there'd be massive concessions and it would be very untrustworthy and i'm sure

no one believes that Israel is going to abide by these things, but I imagine also there must be incredible fatigue. So what's the attitude towards these peace, so-called peace negotiations? And I guess the second question would be about, you know, have you or anyone else around you changed your mind? And I'm not, I don't know what your mind, where your mind was before October 7th. So I'm not, this is not a leading question of like, oh, did you used to be for armed resistance? And now you're against? Maybe it went in the other direction. I'm just curious about what the effect has been on you and the people around you and your

attitude about how to deal with this insane, occupying force that seems to have no interest ever whatsoever in giving up its domination of you. Okay. So for me, the resistance is the resistance. Like, people are giving the label. I didn't want to bring that up, but I guess I should. Like, people think that resistance is only Hamas, but this is not the case here. Here in Gaza, there's a lot of fronts other than Hamas that are within the resistance,

and they joined forces with Hamas, and they did all they did on the 7th of October, and before that, and after that. So it's not only Hamas, so people, when they say resistance, Hamas is entitled. wrong and they shouldn't be saying that but and also we are all human beings and we all make mistakes so the leadership it's already being uprooted during the past two years most of Hamas leaders the big ones and the strong ones they're already being unalived by Israeli the IDF so now I believe like the should be founding new leaders for all of these fronts like Hamas, Fatih Jihad and some other Qasam.

There's a lot of fronts here. Like, even myself, like, I don't know all of the names to them. Like, I told them, like, I didn't know any history when I came here to Gaza. Like, when I left Gaza, I was only nine years old. And to be honest, like, I wasn't even involved in politics or, like, in the history of Palestine at all. Like, I have been focusing where I was living in Sudan. I have been fighting the regime from al-Bashir there and the Islamic leaders who claim to be following the Islam religion, which that wasn't our religion at all. And this is what I keep telling people from all over the world.

Like the thing that they say about Muslims and Islam is not all true. Like they are trying to figure that we are trying to kill of all the nations that are not following our religion, which is not the case. is not us, this is not who we are. And also Hamas doesn't represent the whole resistance. We are all one in Gaza. And we all have different opinions. And as I said, most of the leaders, they already have been alive. So now we are left without a leader, I believe.

So this is like my sole opinion about this. But for me personally, I believe we need to put an end to this ongoing genocide. side. This is not, as you said, this is an armed conflict. It is not even a war. They are the strong part. They are a nation that is being helped with other nations, with the U.S., UK, France, and most of the EU countries, and we are powerless in front of them. We don't have any power. I know a lot of people saying that we have been holding our ground for two years, but we made a lot of cost a lot of souls, a lot of infrastructure, a lot of the land that here, like they destroyed everything here in Gaza. If we are to be, to build Gaza, we will need from five to 10 years,

if it's not 50 years to rebuild, you know. And people are getting weary and tired. We just need to put an end to this because we have lost so much and so many souls. And no matter of the price now, I think we will accept it and we will deal with it later. We just need to regroup, we need to gather our forces, we need to find the new leadership, we need to get together and get stronger and then maybe start like vinging whatever happening here and the souls that departed due to the assault on Gaza. But this is me, like this is just my opinion of the, I don't know. if a lot of people are agreeing with what I said.

And what I said includes the question that you asked later. Like before the 7th of October, I didn't know anything. Like I believed Hamas was the only force here in Gaza, but when I got here, it wasn't the only force. They were like in government, like in office, but it wasn't the only front that resisting the Israeli state. there's other fronts and that's very important to make that distinction between uh or to make it clear that resistance is a is a much more broad and unified thing i mean there

was a unity intifada in 2021 right where many groups came together we don't have a lot of time left and we also can't assume that all of our internets will stay uh if it's not your internet it'll be Matt's internet. And you are a poet. And we introduced you that way. And we want to make sure that we leave some good time to ask you about that and to hear a poem or two from you. So before we ask you to read something, what can you tell us about poetry in a time like this? And have you been able to write during this time? And what kind of role does art and self-expression play in a resistance? or in survival. Yeah.

So I don't know if you notice this, but my English is not that good. I am self-taught. We did not notice because that's not true. Yes. You guys great. It's great. It truly is.

Thank you. Well, I am self-thought. Like, I taught myself by listening to songs, watching movies and series. Like, I love movies and series a lot. I used to spend a lot of time watching them, and suddenly I started, comprehend these sentences and form these things inside of my head what's your favorite

what's your favorite american tv series yeah uh okay that's a tough one like uh i don't know if it's american even like i only watch what i like i like sci-fi a lot and they did watch vampire diaries the originals gray's anatomy it's like different but the great anatomy is drama but uh i like the character mered and christina like they are similar to me like I am always dark and twisted and depressed. Like I have social and anxiety and many attacks order. So, yeah, I relate to them somehow. So that's how you learned English.

Yeah, I believe so, yes. So poetry, I used to write in Arabic. They used to write, like, I can't call it like prose. It was like merely thoughts that I poured on papers when I was in Sudan. It wasn't that really neat. But during the war, I believe when I felt stuck, and I was seeing that people are moving on with their lives and moving forward and us here moving from one war to.

another, not achieving anything, and I was almost 30, like I have three birthdays during the wars. Like, I am now 32, and when I arrived in Gaza, I was only 29. So I had my birthday during the war of Sudan, and then I have my 31st and 32nd during the war in Gaza. So poetry is kind of my gate to express myself, and also when I want to shout and scream and knowing no one is like hear me or like

being attention to me like I can pour all of my emotions and thoughts on paper but recently

also I developed this skull where like people as you did people started when I get interviews like

being alive they will ask me about the history of Palestine and stuff like this and I felt like so ignorant

about it that I had didn't know anything so I started educating myself and when I started doing so I started using those information that I learned and put it into my poems. So my poetry also in a way it is education because you may find like some stories and some information from like old history or like the new one and things that happened during

door like I wrote about my nephew who arrived on the six my sister gave birth on the 6th of February this year to my nephew and it was when Trump got into office and then he I believe he asked Netanyahu to come and they held that press conference and they were like seeing that they want to evacuate all of the population of Vigi strip and everything and it was really cold and chilly and windy that day and I believe I wrote a poem that is called Walls Windows and a door and it was related to what happened. was happening here in Gaza and what's happening in the U.S. between Trump and Netanyahu and the claims they were like having together. So as I said, poetry. Is that a poem you'd be willing to like my voice? Can we have you read that poem? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. We'd love to hear it. Yes. Yes, sure. I didn't need to interrupt you. I just wanted to make sure that I put in the request. No, no, it's okay. No worries. So yeah, my boatry is educational and also expressive a way to express my feelings and my emotions and like talking to myself kind of

because like I feel like sometimes I don't have anyone to talk to and we weren't having any internet for quite some time and we didn't have any kind of explicit like in the beginning of the war most of the families around this day weren't even here like they didn't have these kind of solar panels So we didn't have the internet and I wasn't talking to anyone abroad or like from the friends that I made during these last two years. So just let me find a poem. Yeah, go for it. You wrote this on the 7th? Okay, so I found it on the 7th of February of 23, a day after my nephew was born.

Okay. Sorry, 2023 or this year? It went away, 20, 25, sorry. See, I am still stuck in that 2023, like this year's having passed. Yeah. Oh. Yeah, I wish like it feels like a waste of time, to be honest. Like I didn't achieve anything.

Well, I mean, you're not alone. Many people feel trapped in a time warp, and you have every reason to be out of time. I mean, in the sense of bewildered and disoriented. I can't, I mean, none of us can imagine. But please share your poem with us. So the title, as I mentioned, walls, windows, and a door. Trump obviously complicit. Hays us as he seeks to immigrate us.

And as they plan our evacuation, disforced immigration, they leave us to death in all its forms. As he cynically acknowledges the scenes of death and destruction, around our homes, he refuses to say, who is behind this orchestrated play, the devil in front of you all, the soul goes of it in whole, the destruction was never a downfall, his brow that he kept the war machine rolling, the death kept in rolling as hits kept pulling. He smiles with a smirk and eye rolling in this approval of peace talks presented on the table, happy with his three goals on his war label. true. But what's more ironic is us being envious of the people who live next door, who have walls, windows, and a door. I hear one saying, as his voice breaks, he asks while tears fall and his heart aches, do you have walls, windows, or doors? Or is just a tent like mine with lots of words? Can you host me? My tent is leaking. My kids are freaking. I am freaking.

Hard to stay peaking as the cold keeps peaking from the shredded plastic that made our fears reeking. My plastic door and windows couldn't hold, cannot borrow some plastic fixing before it gets cold? My body parts are frozen, working in fear to prevent my kids' tear and their souls from falling into this fear by the cold, the glacial deep, who keeps on calling. Winter used to be the favorite season in Gaza, with the smells of baking goods, hot beverages on the seashorts of livelihoods, and the warns of fire camps that hosted at every chance with parpicues, happiness and joy in all avenues. Now, these same shores, are the same loss of despair, a daily life we have beyond repair. We used to rush to our homes

when we felt the cold as the fun was done and the night was cold now. There is no place to rush to as the children cry and the parents sweep when tints start to fly with souls to the heaven's deep. Winter is no longer a friend. Cold, is no longer fun to play, pretend. Camp fires only tear, our exhausted bodies that long to retire, and as ironic as that sounds, we only need walls, windows, and a door. That's all we ask for.

So invest in giving us homes, don't send us away. We have already lost too much up till today's hotel, so let us stay on the land that holds our loved ones in Spelly, and where all of our memories lie, buried under trouble and houses that are chilly, we don't ask for too much for you to ignore. swalls, windows, and a door. Right.

Bars. Bars. Thank you for that, Ahmed. Are you a hip-hop fan? Do you listen to... I guess so, yeah. Because that has the sort of... The relentless cadence and flow of...

It makes me think of someone like Kendrick Lamar or, you know. And in terms of what you said about educating through poetry, I mean, that's what rappers were doing from the... beginning, at least in the conscious hip-hop era, like telling the stories that never got told, you know, and the stories of history and the stories of the present. It's beautiful. Will you email that to us so we can put the text of it accompanying the video so that people can read along? I don't want them to miss a single word. Yeah, I've got, I've got it. You've got it. Good. Yeah.

Yeah, I put it on my link tree. If you work on all of the links. Perfect, perfect, perfect. And we're going to put everything on, um, um, We're going to put the link tree in our description of this episode so that people can, you know, they can go through it and they can read your poetry and they can fund your various initiatives and possible documentary that you're trying to get funded. We'll make sure that people get all of the links to everything. Yeah, thank you. Ahmed, this was really wonderful to speak with you. And I hope to do it again soon. Where can people follow you on social media?

Well, on my link tree, I am spreading through all of social media platforms like I am already in TikTok and Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, substack, telegram, WhatsApp, everything, yeah. I am not just working on this project, only the songs like I am also. working on an e-book, film, but we can definitely talk about this another time since we are running out of time here. And thank you so much for having me on your podcast and for amplifying my voice and supporting my people and spreading the true facts about what's happening here in Gaza and Palestine. You are more than welcome. And Ahmed, I mean, you've given us such a gift by coming on our show. you know in some ways this is a very silly show we make a lot of jokes we make fun of things we make fun of things that are the farthest thing from funny in the world but it's part of how we try to keep

ourselves sane but it's a very different experience to be speaking to someone who's there and to be speaking to a fellow wordsmith and uh you know we just have such we're just sending up all of our our prayers and our intentions that this situation, this horrible thing that you're going through, will come to an end with something like freedom and justice as soon as possible. So hang in there, please stay safe, please keep us posted, and we'll talk to you soon.

George, thank you. Okay, everyone else, thank you so much for watching and listening. Bad Hasbara at gmail.com for all your questions, comments, and concerns. Badhusbara.com is our website. Go to patreon.com slash badhusbara to get bonus episodes. All right, everybody. Thanks so much for listening. And until next time, from the river to the sea, you know what?

I don't have any funny puns today. Palestine will be free. Jumping jacks was us. Push-ups was us. Gopmaga us. All karate us. Taking Molly us. Michael Jackson us.

Yamaha keyboards. Us. Georgia makes not us Andor was us Keith led your Joker us Endless Fred success Happy meals was us McDonald's was us

Being happy us Bequam yoga us Eating food us Breeding air us Drinking water us We invented all that shit Thank you.