Bad Hasbara - The World's Most Moral Podcast - 151: Mailbag Part 2

Episode Date: October 14, 2025

Hey everyone, this is the long awaited mailbag episode! You can listen to part 1 on the Patreon! Matt, Daniel, and Producer Adam answer your questions with the honesty and humility you can only get from three guys rushing to fill the gaping maw of the content monster before they leave for a weekend of sold out shows in New York (who also love the listeners and viewers).Please donate to Bridge Of Solidarity: https://chuffed.org/project/bridgeofsolidarityJoin the patreon at https://www.patreon.com/badhasbaraBad Hasbara Merch Store:https://estoymerchandise.com/collections/bad-hasbara-podcastGet tickets for Francesca Fiorentini, Matt Lieb and friends with Daniel Maté October 13 in Brooklyn: https://bit.ly/mattfranbellhouseSubscribe to the Patreon https://www.patreon.com/badhasbaraWhat’s The Spin playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/50JoIqCvlxL3QSNj2BsdURSkad Skasbarska playlist: http://bit.ly/skadskasbarskaSubscribe/listen to Bad Hasbara wherever you get your podcasts.Spotify https://spoti.fi/3HgpxDmApple Podcasts https://apple.co/4kizajtSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/bad-hasbara/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hello, hot bitch, We invented the terry tomato And weighs USB drives and the iron d'all Israeli salad, oozy, stents, and jopas orange crows Micro chips is us iPhone cameras us Taco salads us Bothanaamos us

Olive Garden us White foster us Zabrahamas As far as us and welcome to Bad Hasbara. The World's Most Moral Podcast. That's right. We are here and that is producer Adam.

All three of us together, that means it's a special episode. It is a mailbag episode of Bad Hasbara. My name is Matt Leobald. Be your world's most moral co-host for this podcast. I'm Daniel Mate, second most moral co-host in the world. All yours. Producer Adam, I'm producing. That's right.

And in some ways, hosting because you're going to be throwing, you're going to be pitching. That's right. We're going to be catching. We're going to be catching. Let's use different words. Okay, you'll be topping. You don't like baseball, Adam? You'll be tapping.

You've got something wrong with American pastime. We'll bottom for you and you top. Thank you. Shout out to producer Adam Levin, who's here. Five stars on a review on all of the podcast app. Subscribe to us if you haven't already. Nothing should get you. hitting that subscribe button faster than an episode full of mailbag questions. Clearly will be

one of our most popular episodes out there. Look, no, no, but you're joking, but it's deadly, serious. It is deadly. Because this folks is part two of our mailback episode. You're coming in midway. You're not going to know what's going on. Yeah. Like, it's going to be difficult to catch up, but you know, pay attention, stay on your toes, you'll get there. But if you don't want to be left behind next time. If you want to hear part one of the mailbag episode and not have to join midway through like some schmuck, go to patreon.com slash bathasbara

get all the damn episodes. That's right. You get all of them. Not only do you get... But there was some good ones too. There were some good ones. Oh yeah. There were great questions in the first half. I mean, I'm honestly like, I don't think this second half is going to, you know, reach even close to the level. How could it? Quality, quality questions. So if you don't want to miss out on that, also you don't want to miss out on a weekly bonus episode of this podcast. Well, then join

Patreon.com slash Baddavara. What did we talk about? We talked about the Coen brothers. We talked about Jewish literature. We talked about subreddit, R slash Jewish. Yeah, yeah. We talked about a Scott playlist. A Scott playlist. We talked about liberal

Zionism. We talked about techniques for, you know, talking to family members or friends. Yeah, we talked about all sorts of shit. I don't even remember half of it, but it was sick so you should listen to that episode but since you're here we might as well fill up your piggy trough with some delicious sloppy seconds that's right you're getting sloppy seconds

today's episode is brought to you by bridge of solidarity uh bridge of solidarity is an anti-capitalist mutual aid organization founded in gaza by yazan and al mawasi Why can't I ever read that word correctly in Canyanus? All the money goes directly to people in need of support. These efforts are focused on the most marginalized people in Gaza, at risk of dying, people without phones who can't speak English, who can't post on social media, don't have wealthy relatives, and may not even have any living relatives. So these efforts actively combat genocide capitalism with mutual aid.

and we could not recommend this more highly. So please, if you have any money, the first mailbag episode is not that good. So please take that money and go to bit.ly slash bridge of solidarity and donate now. Daniel, it wouldn't be bad has borough without hearing about spins. What is it the spin? Well, this just arrived today, and I'm just so incredibly excited about it. It's my first time doing a box set on this episode, on this show.

Hmm. This is a big, thick-ass box set called Joni's Jazz. Whoa. And it's from Joni Mitchell's website directed out or directly. That's a picture of her with Herbie Hancock and Wayne Shorter. And it's an eight record box set of taken from across her career of song, and she picked them herself, sort of spanning the songs that track the jazz influence in her music. And it goes all the way from her Fokie era all the way through the Newport Folk Festival

performance she did with Brandy Carlisle and people of both sides now last year or this year. And it's beautiful. I saw one CBC interviewer or segment talking about how this box set chronicles Joni Mitchell's controversial jazz phase, and that's just total horseshit. Controversial. She doesn't have a jazz phase. She has a jazz thread through her. entire career, which got more and more pronounced as the 70s wore on, and she was working

with Jacob Pistorius and Charles Mingus and Herbie Hancock and Wayne Shorter and all that. But it was always there, and it's not controversial. It's essential. So this is beautiful. There's a cover of Marvin Gay's Trouble Man, Trouble Man that she does, which is amazing, some great unreleased demos from the early 80s. And it's got some stuff on it that previously just wasn't available on record from her late 90s sorry late 80s early 90s albums that are some of my favorites so that's

that's what's been in in my house today I love it I love me some Joni Baez that's my Joni but Mitchell is good too you love Joni Holloway I do love Joni so that's what's spinning and of course

Actually, Christina Hendricks liked a reel. I was in for Oxfam, Canada. Really? Yeah, yeah, sent it to you. Me and a bunch of other Canadian nobodies were, you know, recruited by Oxfam to do one of these, you know, videos where we all read a script and they cut it together and all that kind of stuff, telling Canada stop arming Israel and all that stuff.

If she liked it and you showed it to me, I assume my next, what I texted you back with was ask her to be a guest. on the show. I think your words were boy, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo. I shouldn't have done it and you shouldn't have revealed it. But, you know, let's be honest. Christina Hendricks, the perfect

woman does exist. Oh, she's the best. And also just a fantastic actress. She's really the star of Mad Men, in my opinion. Outside of, you know, Don Draper, I think Don Draper overrated. I am all about

boobies, boobies. Boobies, boobies, boobies, long legs, red hair, hold me, you're my mom. Oh, anyways, so that's what's been. On to the serious topic of the day. On to the mailbag. Let's talk about it. What are we got? Adam is going to be quarterbacking us through this, so you go ahead.

All right, to reiterate from the Patreon app, just the messages have been edited lightly for brevity messages that have been omitted are requests for a specific guest to appear requests for topics that have been covered since the message came uh statements messages that ask us to read or listen to something else and comment on it so we begin with scott did you pick it because of it sounds like scah yeah just because you're like scaw so much you're like i like that his name sound like my favorite genre exactly and that's of course Bitt.L.Y. Skad Skazbarra. That is my SCCA playlist for the show. A.K.A. What's the Skank? Yes.

All right. First time, long time, week one. Since our current administration clearly revels in Nazi rhetoric and tactics, I see a possibility of the furthest right cohorts being able to put the blame for our upcoming economic collapse at the feet of the genocide being carried out by Israel. The chance for an American crystal-knacht isn't outside the realm of reality, especially if Soros can be inserted even more into the dialogue. How do you think, how do you guys think the state of American Judaism will hold up with its already strained connections? That is a, that is a good question, actually. We're talking about the threat of serious anti-Semitic reprisals by the state against Jews here for what Israel has done.

I mean, by the state or not, I think, is either one is valid. I think, you know, in terms of by the state, I don't have any short-term serious concerns just because of the nature of the, you know, the bought and paid for nature of the state in the way in which the American, like, political class and media class is so in. its own Zionist bubble that it's that yeah I don't I don't necessarily see see them falling into a I don't know I don't I don't see them going down that rabbi hole I don't see them going down that rabbi hole in the short term for sure um but the rabbi hole is that great in uh in Betts die that the guys were coming out

yes that rabbi hole uh is uh well we've also actually yeah um my favorite jefferson airplane song white rabbi yeah yeah one chill makes you larger um okay so uh but in terms of you know this question of like the furthest right cohorts putting the blame on the upcoming economic collapse of the united states on israel i mean yeah of course they're going to do that um you know that is not outside the realm of possibility. I mean, it is kind of in the nature of the furthest rate cohort. The chance for an American Crystal Knight, I mean, honestly, like, I truly, like, one of the reasons that this podcast was created was seeing the American Jewish community and our Jewish institutions.

being so wrapped up in their Zionism and living in their own bubbles, you know, so much that they didn't understand that all of their alliances in the United States with the right were going to end up, you know, I don't know, coming back around and, you know, stabbing them in the back. I mean, it's like they're shooting themselves in the foot with it. I don't see it outside of the realm of possibility at all. I mean, obviously, for the last two years, there have been all of these claims of anti-Semitic incidents in which it is, you know, that have been completely made up

or have been clearly politically motivated incidences of people protesting Israel and it being conflated as anti-Semitism. To a degree that it cheap. what anti-Semitism actually is and it cheapened the smear and the accusation of it to the point where, yes, I think that people are going to, you're going to see more and more attacks. It is not forefront in my mind. That's kind of the way I look at it. I do think it's going to happen. And yes, it is going to be bad. And I'm not sitting here blaming, you know, I'm like, oh, this. the Jews, you brought it upon yourself, but I will say our institutions are very much bringing it upon themselves. Our institutions are being stupid, short-sided, genocidal, and fucking cowardly in a lot of different ways. So, yeah, I do see our institutions as leading us down this particular path. And it is, again, not the first thing I think about when I think about this stuff.

I think about a genocide that's happening and yeah yeah that's not speculative at all look we haven't talked about the the attack in Manchester oh right yeah I don't know about the motivations of that attacker I I haven't read enough about it but that strikes me as it could plausibly be a stochastic case of reprisal against Jews for what Israel is doing which would be condemnable as it already is horrific. But when we're using analogies like Kristallnacht, I think we have to be very careful. I agree. Because Kristallnacht was a state project. It was a state endorsed night of terror widespread against Jewish businesses and homes all over the place. And it was a calculated tactic. And it was part of a program.

that a political party, which rose to power, was enacting, and it was part of a continuous trajectory. I do not see any possibility for that in the United States. I see no comparison. And I think it's tempting if we think about, oh, some Jewish businesses were attacked and burned and windows were smashed. I can imagine some windows being smashed in a JCC or a synagogue here,

but I cannot, simply cannot imagine it being egged on or supported by anyone with any kind of power. And frankly, that includes, like, any major trench of the right-wing potosphere. I just don't see it. I think Christian Zionists have too much power in this country, and you just simply wouldn't be able to sell that. And I don't see any evidence that that's what things are building to. deep resentments building in many pockets of the country against, you know, where Jews are

associated rightly or wrongly with the elite, with Hollywood, all of that, that blowing back in various ways, ignorance about Jews spreading, yes, but until such time as we have a genuine anti-Israel force on the right rising to power and trying to use that for a political project, I don't see it happening. And the trend I'm seeing is that the fealty to Israel, even among the most chuddy, pepe-ish fucking administration we've ever had, doesn't speak very affirmatively about that being the future that we're entering. Yeah, I mean, I think I'm more, I'm more pessimistic.

about it. I think you're right in the short term. I think in the long term anything is possible. And you know, I think based on the history of the way in which anti-Semitism has been utilized

in the past, you know, by, you know, whether it's the fucking czar or any European institutions. And I guess if the question is, how are people going to respond to the coming economic collapse? Well, then I'm trying, then I have to place myself in a world that we're not currently living in.

Right, yeah. Yeah, and I, you know, for me, I see it as like not at all outside of the realm of possibility that the blowback from this is going to, yeah, be, I don't know, manifested by actual anti-Semitic hate crimes happening. And so whether it's the, you know, the crystal night comparison is apt or not, I mean, like, yeah, it's, I don't, again, I don't see that happening on a state level or systemic level in the United States in the short term. I don't put anything outside of the realm of possibility when it comes to the future of this country, especially once we, yeah, do undergo a serious economic catastrophe. which I also see is very possible. Here's what I want to know. Why in his long and illustrious career

has Billy Crystal not put out a special called Billy Crystal Nocht? You know, that's a great question. Yeah, yeah. It's unknowable. It's unknowable. Maybe it's because the political commentator and Zionist Bill Crystal already did that. But, yeah, I mean, if you look at anti-Semitism,

you know, more historically, And sort of holistically, and look at patterns of flare-ups, not so much in the United States, but in Europe and whatnot, like, you could make the case for the blowback, possibly, you know, being something that you would describe as a Pukram or whatnot. And it is something, it's like, I'm not going to pretend like I'm sitting here, not what, what, I want to know. What's... Sorry Just imagining a British Claymation series called Wallace and Pogromit. You're stupid ass.

Stupid ass. Back to go out for Wockies, Pugromet to kill some Jews. Oh, we're just going to get a group of Cossacks together and we're going to go and raid and burn a village, yeah. You know, with the big...

There's nothing I love better than a nice piece of cheese with a piece of meat At the same time to upset the coaches. Isn't that right, Pagromit? All right, so, an anonymous listener wants to needle some Zionists over a pin. Last year, I wore a free Palestine pin while dropping my kid off at school, and some Zionist parents complained to the school. The school sent out a message to all parents asking us to refrain from any political messages on shirts or badges during drop-off and pickup.

My question is, what can I wear that is subtle enough to drive the Zionists insane and still get away with it? I mean, the big one has been watermelon stuff. I've seen a lot of, you know, people using the watermelon as sort of a stand-in avatar for free Palestine or for solidarity with Palestine. I guess you could wear a shirt. Plasticine action shirt. Plasticine action shirt. In the same spirit, you could maybe wear. just off the top of my head

a picture of a pig butt which is a synonym for a ham ass oh ham ass I like it yeah I love I heart

I heart ham ass and then a pig butt for a pork butt yeah I was thinking a picture of a castle and then a picture of a fork with an arrow to just one of the little points

so it's Palestine Tyne. Oh, man. Yeah. Tine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I like it. I like it. Listen, there's a power in puns, folks. There's power in puns. So, yeah, I mean, certainly looking at some of, I mean, shit, if you really want to go for it, a shirt with an upside down red triangle. I mean, fucking see what happens. I don't know, man. Can they, can they, you know, reasonably argue that that is specifically a Hamas shirt I don't I don't know I think you could

I think you could probably get away with it in some circles yeah all right next we have a voicemail hmm hi um just want to ask when you guys are planning on doing your review of don't mess with the Zohat

literally the only reason I'm not currently subscribe to your Patreon yet love you bye this is as reasons go yes this is a great question um uh in terms of

yeah, not subscribing because you're waiting for this episode we hear you and we see you and your voice matters. We will do this, I promise you. We will earn your money. Yeah, we've been promising, I think, don't mess with the Zohan,

the Adam Sandler movie about a Mossad agent who just wants to be a hairstylist in New York. Yes, we need to do a badass bar a movie episode about that and do an analysis of it. So far, we've only done GOLDA. Yeah, at one point we had big ideas that we were going to do a movie episode every month or something like that.

Right, right, right. We talked about doing more frequently. And I wasn't even there for the GOLDA episode. Yeah, that's right. You weren't there for it. That was back in, I don't know when it was. February or something. I remember listening to that episode on a road trip I was on.

And that's when I had to endure all of your fake medical reports about my anus. Oh, yeah, that's right. That's right. episode I was going. That's what convinced me to attend, have better attendance. Yeah, you have better attendance than me now. It's bad for my rectal health. Yes. But yeah, we will do that and we will have, you know, friend of the pod and movie expert, Vince Mancini, back on to talk about some more Israeli propaganda movies and stuff. And yeah, we'll do it. I promise you. Maybe we can get Mamdani on and call the episode, Don't mess with the Zorro.

on dude i mean listen if he wants to do our special patron only movie episode then he is welcome please come on do it look man we we see you at the yom Kippur service clapping along you know but if you really want to prove your fucking bona fides exactly exactly with the jews with the mainstream jewish community that's right that's right you can't hide behind you know what's his name uh bradlander right Yeah, how'd you know? That's exactly what I was talking about. You can't hide behind Brad Lander this whole time.

Because that's who you could plausibly say he's hiding behind. I don't think he's hiding behind him. I think they're genuinely aligned. Yeah. Shout out to him, by the way. Did you hear him recently? I think it was, could have been. It was at Yom Kippur's services.

I think it was Yom Kippur services. And he was, it was great. I need to listen to it. I saw them both speak at the Jafredge awards a few weeks ago. And to be quite frank, I preferred Landers' speech to Zorans. Yeah. I really liked Brad Lander a lot. Yeah, I was really impressed with him, yeah, at the Yom Kippur services.

It's just like he was brutally honest about, you know, he didn't go to the level of unforgivable. but he was very blatant, he was very blunt about the Jewish community's need for forgiveness for entering a, quote, war of revenge and doing a complicity and a genocide. I was like, bars. Yeah, and I don't know if Lander has fully renowned Zionism yet. And on his own terms, I don't really care. Like, him speaking from where. he's speaking from with the level of sincerity and moral outrage that he is, I think is

really, really valuable, especially in the ways that he's run interference for Zoron while people are trying to take him down in bad faith. I'll have forever respect for him for that Colbert appearance. Yeah, in terms of like political allyship, I mean, there's, I was incredibly cynical about it, I think early on, just because, you know, I didn't know his politics and I wasn't exactly sure what the plan was. But the more I heard him speak, I mean, I just kind of in general assume any politician is going to be a snake. And I've been really kind of a fucking impressed with him. So, yeah, a snake or a snook. Anyway, that's your answer to your question about when you can join the video. Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah. We'll, we'll get to it soon as

as well as a bunch of other movies that I think we definitely need to talk about. All right, Bevin with a music question. I do a count of the Omer the days from Passover to Shavua with songs. However, since my friend and I decided that a song like 1950 doesn't count for 19 because it's 1,950, I currently have to do Hey 19 by Steely Dan, and it is a very bad song, opinion as a man okay Anthony Fantano

you can reveal your real you don't need to assume it sure bevin do you have any suggestions for a song with 19 in the title yes yes the song Hey 19 by Steely

Dan is a fantastic song with 19 in the title what are you talking about what are you smoking Hey 19 is a fantastic song and I don't know why you would think it's not and if you want to get an insight into why Steeley Dan's lyrics are an essential, so you might, see, here's the thing, Stilidand and Hay 19 is one of their cheesier sounding songs. It's very loungy.

It's very smooth music. It's off 1980s Gaucho, which is sort of the most sanitized, almost oppressively immaculate produced albums of theirs, short of their 2000 comeback to Against Nature and the subsequent album, Everything Must Go. However, Hey 19, rises to glory, and as that whole album does, on the mismatch between its clean, immaculate sound, and it's

nebishy, self-hating, sad-sac, depressed, lecherous, and really funnally acerbic lyrics. Hey, 19, that's Ritha Franklin. She don't remember the queen of soul. Hard times but fallen soul

survivors. She thinks I'm crazy, but I'm just growing old. He's talking about trying to date a 19 year old but they can't fucking talk about anything because this girl doesn't get his musical references he's having a midlife crisis you know yeah and then this this this like this like this sad refrain which is supposed to sound like party time the quervo gold the fine columbia and make tonight a wonderful thing it's not a wonderful thing they're they're they're sniffing coke and sipping tequila and he's miserable and that's what makes dillian great and if you want to have a fuller appreciation of how you too can enjoy the smooth miserable

of Steele-Dan lyrics and have a deeper appreciation for how their songs actually work. Go to my old, my sort of defunct YouTube channel, Lyrics to Go, which I can't believe I've never mentioned on this podcast. I had tons of episodes, including a two-part episode about appreciating the lyrics of Steeleadand. This whole channel was me talking about lyric appreciation and really listening to the words. And Donald Fagan and Walter Becker are just, they're musical theater writers in jazz pop um compositional uh outfits and they're um i love that i didn't used to love that song but i think

the more you get into the personality of the character of of steel so i'd say no you're probably stuck with that one i can't think of another one with 19 in his idol does it have to be in the title that's i think the i think that's the key yeah well then yeah i don't i don't know i think uh i was looking up a list on Reddit with this just to just to give them something but

yeah a lot of Paul Hardcastle 19 by Paul Hardcastle it's an anti-Vietnam song okay that's a good runner up yeah if you must but I believe there's you know there's probably some other ones in there I think I saw

was it Tegan and Sarah did a song called 19 they're the ones right is that are those the people who did oh no that's oh i'm sorry i was going to say all the things you said all the things you said run into my head that's tattoo that's tattoo that's that's uh all right well we've answered that question there's probably more songs for 18 right like 18 in life by skid row or 17 or 16 she was only 16 i love that song i don't agree with the message when i was 17 yeah see 17's in there 19 not a lot of 19 hmm all right day

David writes in, I have a mental health question for you. This is, this was sent directly to Daniel, and then Daniel sent it to, uh, to us. Yeah, I asked him if it was okay to read on, on this episode. And he said yes. Okay. So I have a mental health question for you. You and I are the same age and we share the same politics on Palestine and probably most issues. Your podcast is a cathartic breath of air, but the overall dark feelings are still very prominent. My question relates to anger. I have so much anger and rage, not just at Israel, but towards so many American Jewish friends and family who have failed the easiest moral test of our lifetime. We don't talk about the issue

to preserve the friendships, but this makes me feel complicit in the avoidance. So in other words, in order to preserve the friendships, you're not talking about it. Correct. Thus, the feelings of alienation, loneliness, and rage. I don't mean to trauma dump on a stranger, but this topic seems up your professional alley. Yeah, well, first of all, it's okay, everyone trauma dumps on me for some reason. And you're not trauma dumping. You actually are asking a very vulnerable and honest question that I think is relevant for a lot of people listening, you know, and you're just sharing about your emotional

experience, and I appreciate it. I think everyone listening probably does too. what's the question at the very end of it how does you frame it as a question the the question is effectively how to deal with how do you how do you interact with these people and avoid discussing this thorny issue without feeling complicit yourself or is there a way to kind of square that circle in your head okay let me try I'm going to kind of skate around the rink of this question because it's a wide spectrum question and hopefully we can we can make some nice patterns in the ice number one your anger and rage and and discussed are totally

valid emotions they are appropriate in you know they certainly some degree of anger and And also sorrow and grief is, I think, called for here. And I think for many of us, due to our own upbringing in this culture, especially for men, feeling sadness and sorrow and mournfulness and grief is harder than feeling anger and rage. But often underneath anger and rage, there are those more tender, more vulnerable emotions that want to be felt. And if we let ourselves feel that and grieve, that can actually discharge. charge the more toxic, you know, like anger when it stays in you will kill you. Sadness, when it's allowed to move, will actually cleanse you.

I think health, I mean, you know, you're not going to die of a heart attack from from being sad about the way things are in the world. But, you know, but even sadness, if you keep a bottle up, is not good for you. So allowing these things to move somehow. Now the people in your life, you would like the people close. to you to be people you can express yourself with and share yourself with. But it sounds like the dilemma you're coming up against is a sort of, you know, what my dad talks about, the fundamental tension between attachment and authenticity. We want to be close to people, but we also want to be

ourselves. And a lot of trauma that comes from our childhoods is that we weren't allowed to do both. If we wanted to maintain the relationships with the people closest to us, we had to suppress parts of ourselves, and then that becomes just second nature and it becomes our personality. at least in grown-up in adulthood we get to choose our relationships and you have some agency over who you're going to have in your life and who you're not so you have to check in with yourself what is the toll on me of constantly having to for the sake of the relationship not talk about what really matters to me that's building up a pressurized charge inside of you that might be toxic to you that might not be good for you it's not your friends that are toxic to you it's the

position of not being able to be yourself with the people that you have in your life so that you can be yourself. It can be both. It could be both. Now, I'm not saying they're not, but toxicity relates, it's relative to who it's affecting and it's affecting you. Yeah. So ultimately, and if you can't change them, then you have a choice to make.

You may not want to have those people in your life. I would also strongly recommend if you have the wherewithal to do some work on looking at the anger and the rage itself and in like a therapeutic setting. And we are not, despite what you might think, we at Bad Hasborough are not licensed mental health professionals. But I would say with a trusted like caregiver of some kind or in some kind of group setting, like often anger and rage, which at, attach themselves to world events and world injustices and genuine things that are going on in the world can be, there can be stowaways inside of that rage that are coming from our own personal stuff. And you see it all the time in activism, where there is a lot to be angry about in the

world, but we can sometimes add to it and it gets kind of polluted or clouded by our own unprocessed grief, anger, rage at people who harmed us in our own lives or over-identification with victims because we ourselves were victimized. It's nothing wrong with that. I'm not saying it's wrong or not understandable, but I'm saying over time, if not processed and explored, can get in the way both of your personal life and your ability to be effective politically and to communicate clearly because you're protesting against things that aren't happening. things that happened a long time ago and which stops you from being able to respond effectively to what is happening as far as what to do with the people in your lives we addressed

a question similar to that in the in the first part of this episode about how to communicate with like liberal Zionist friends I would yeah without knowing more about these people in the specific relationship I wouldn't presume to give you any advice it's the kind of thing that I have taken walks with people about in my mental chiropractic work if anyone's interested in that walkwith daniel.com having a conversation to sort out okay what exactly is going on here what am i angry about what are the possibilities here what have i tried what haven't i tried what assumptions am i making about them what roles am i playing with them that actually i don't need to i mean maybe you're protecting them from your feelings and you

don't have to maybe they could handle more than you think it all depends on the on the situation and what you're carrying from your own past. So that's a very all-over-the-place answer that I hope covers at least some basis that it'll be helpful. All right, let's do a voicemail. Hello, Bad Hasbara. Quick question.

Do you guys have access to giving us a reading list of books about Palestine? That would be lovely. Thank you. Free Palestine. Yeah. Thank you for that question. question yeah i mean i think that is a great idea i almost feel like uh kind of in the same way

adam has a ska playlist having a like a book playlist i think would also equally important yeah no i think it would be good that's what's the spine isn't it that is what's the spine um yeah but uh you know i can just go through some of my own reading list um right now uh just you know to give you guys some suggestions for stuff to read i got two sitting here right now but we've and we've interviewed both their authors yeah that's right um so those are two great ones perfect victims by mohammed al kirk and then um uh what is it uh being jewish after the destruction of Gaza by peter yes never don't worry about the title as i as i said to peter my least favorite part of this book is the title yeah and what were you saying adam i said the hundred years war on

Palestine by Rashid Khalidi. Yes, yes. Another guest of ours. And I mean, that's a, that's just a really, that's a really great book. I thought the message by Tanahasi Coates was fantastic. There is, going through my list right now, Justice for Some by Nora Aricot. I don't, I'm not purposefully doing just people who have been our guests, but again, this is a great, you know, is stuff that I've read that I really thought was great. Just as for some is incredible, it is dense and it is, you know, incredibly important in terms of understanding the way in which apartheid works in the West Bank and in Gaza and sort of the international laws that have been, you know, that were created and then completely disregarded.

by the West. There's a new book out that both Matt and I have received, I don't think either of us have read it yet, called Terms of Servitude by Omar Zaza, about tech industries war on Palestine that we are going to read and get to and then do an interview. And that is going to happen as soon as we read it. we of course are doing a mailbag episode because we're going to New York for these

these live shows and you know we had to kind of put all of our focus on that but once that's done we should be reading that book and interviewing the author there is a an audio book I'm sure it's also you know in print but it's called on Palestine and So basically a conversation between Nomchomsky and Elon Pape that I think is like incredibly good for like sort of, I don't know, getting kind of like a baseline understanding of the conflict in general. Conflict in quotes. And then ethnic cleansing of Palestine for talking Elon Pape. That's great. Avi Shlheim has a great book about 10 myths about Zionism or something like that.

Yeah. And then, you know, if you haven't read it, the Israel lobby is by, I think, Mearsheimer, what is that? Walt and Mearsheimer. Walt and Mearsheimer. It is like, you know, if you want to understand the American obsession with Israel and critiques of American foreign policy with regards to Israel. I mean, you can't do better than the Israel lobby. And it's really funny how, you know,

I don't know, maligned both of the authors were after it came out and how much their careers were, you know, stymied and suffered because of it, which is something that they knew what happened and they called out in the book. And, you know, everything that they... put in there is just like if you want to understand the israel lobby is really the place to go if you want to get into the nitty gritty of like politics specifically in america i would also add to the list a graphic novel by joe sacco just called palestine and i think he has something more recent in the same series but you know just like mouse m a u.s was a standard bar mitzvig gift for kids of my generation

depicting the Nazi Holocaust through cartoons of mice and cats and stuff like that. Joe Sacco does an incredible job rendering life in occupied Palestine through images and words of really powerful work. And I Robot by Isaac Asimov read that.

That has nothing to do with Israel, Palestine. It's just really, it's really sick. Not a graphic novel actually Just just comic strip Sorry, sorry Adam Yeah All right We're going to be back with some more questions

In just a minute But first I'm going to take an ad break It's time for ad break everyone So stick around Listen to these ads And we'll be right back And we'll be right back

and we're back Zbadisbarra World's Most Moral podcast and we are taking questions from our mailbag thank you to everyone who's submitted

and thank you to all the you know the free non-pay pigs who are watching and you know listening to this episode because we know your regularly scheduled program

is not quite here It's a mailbag episode, and we thank you for your patience with us, and we hope you're enjoying yourself. Why wouldn't they be? This is great stuff. This is better than our regular schedule. Have you ever listened to our regular shit? No, I'm saying. Garby.

This is the most parisocial of all episodes. We're acknowledging their existence. We are responding. We're interacting. Yes. Yeah. You're here. We're with you on a delay.

All right. So this question is for someone I am calling DJ Yerbramate. So my brother. Yeah, I was like, Aaron. What turntables does Daniel use for everyday spinning? Ah, good question. I have two turntables and a microphone. Where it's that?

Shout out, Beck. Yeah. I think. in the other room I've got I got it from Turntable Lab here in New York and it's the TTRL model of I think MMF is the MMF 1.5 from I forget what the actual brand name is but that's the model you can look at.

MMF? Yeah. I'm more of an FFM. That's right. Porn. Yeah. Porn joke. Yeah.

You're welcome. And then in this room, I got an audio technica. Oh, yes. Classic. AT dash LP, something or other. Nothing fancy. I'm not, see, the thing, you would think that for all of my meticulous, obsessive, compulsive vinyl collecting and music trivia and lyrics trivia, I'd also be an audio file.

I am not. I can't really tell the difference between, like, a great pair of speakers and, like, a fine pair of speakers, my eyes glaze over whenever I'm taught, whenever I'm reading tech specs on this turntable or that cartridge or this stylus or whatever like that. I just don't, I don't get what all the fuss is about. So I have some serviceable entry to mid-level turntables that, that's served me well. And maybe one day I'll have someone educate me on why I should be spending 10 times the money on marginally better equipment. The answer to that...

Gear has never been my thing. The answer to that is you shouldn't. And if... The answer to that is, girls love it when you tell them about it. Yeah, that's right. That's right. No, I always find audio files to be sort of...

You know what they're like? They're like a $1,000 H-DMI cable salesman where you're just like... I understand that you think that I'm going to be able to tell the difference between this $15 cable and a thousand dollar cable but I won't be able to it's the same shit oh sure you could go with the standard USBC cable to charge your phone

you could do that yeah but this one's plated in gold I was like no fuck off all right next we have melody with a moose and goose question for Daniel as a Canadian can I just can we stop for one second

uh Adam yeah I also exist we got this like three fucking in a row. Why am I even? I don't think it's been a single. This is a question for Matt. There's not been one single.

Don't worry. I've written angry letters back to all of these people excoriating them for not addressing to you. Using your AI voice to be like, I don't like questions. I am a piece of shit. No, no, that's fine. No, people, I guess I, you know,

I'm just a chopped liver. I guess I'll just go fuck myself. This is a question for Matt from B.M. Billy F. B.M. Billy B. Big mouth, Billy Bass. Big mouth, Billy Bass. All right, I should have. Yeah. Yeah.

As a Canadian, what would you do if you have... Oh, one of these as a Canadian questions. Yes. Oh, he's so ethnic. I've got to ask Canada questions. All right. All right. It's fine. As a Canadian, how do you wax your toque? what would you do if you had a Zionist co-worker who is a member of the Inclusion and Belonging Committee,

aka DEI, and they are chosen to read out the Truth and Reconciliation Land Acknowledgement in a company meeting? Also, how does Canada truly continue with the NTRC's call to action while the Canadian government continues to support Israel's genocide on Gaza? You know what, Matt, why don't you answer the question about Canadian government if you want it so bad? Yeah, I will answer this. I think I'll take this. Yeah. There's no reason that, Canada's. Also, what does it say?

Truth and Reconciliation and Land An Acknowledgement? Well, shit, dude, you know, that's, we've all, first of all, we've all been there. I don't know, Daniel, do you have an actual answer to this question about what you do with the Zionist co-worker? I can feed you some context. I think you'll have some insights. Look, Canada, truth and reconciliation has become, it's our version of, you know, in this house science matters in all life. It's just a big virtue signal for, you know, well-meaning, don't hate me, urban, elite, white people. Interesting.

It should mean, there's been genuine attempts on the behalf of First Nations communities, which is what we call indigenous Canadians, to get some truth and to get some actual, not reconciliation, but restitution and reparations, but there are still tons, I mean, you know, native people in Canada that still suffer from, malnutrition the most, sexual abuse the most, addiction, poverty, you know, lack of access to clean drinking water and other resources on their own lands. Treaters are still violated every day by pipelines. You know, and we've had a prime minister who will tearfully accept honors from First Nations groups and drawn the regalia and cry about it.

But, you know, and then just approve another billion dollar pipeline across. You've got your own version of Nancy Pelosi. doing the Wakanda fucking thing with the Kinti cloth on and taking any of it. That's right. So land acknowledgments are big in Canada

before every event. And you see it too in places like New York and San Francisco and I don't know if it's like that in L.A. I don't mind land acknowledgments per se, but it can be the glaring disparity between or discrepancy between the words

and the actions can often be a lot to handle. And that's even before you fold into the mix, the fact that you might end up with someone who is reading land acknowledgments while supporting or being silent about a genocide that Canada is funding across the world. So that's... Reading an anti-smoking ad while blowing a big cigar.

Yeah. I mean, the Vancouver airport has a lot of beautiful First Nations art and not only art on the walls, but like when you arrive at the international terminal and you walk back towards baggage claim, you walk through like this full-on installation with like canoes and a flowing river and rocks and like the sounds of rainforest birds and whatever.

And I call it the, you know, we have a positive relationship with our native people's memorial lounge. Like it's even as the native artists who have provided the art there, It's great that they have the opportunity to show their work, and in a way, it's great to showcase that. It also serves a PR role and a kind of, you know, conscience immune system boost for people who might be inclined to feel guilty about their privilege. Yeah. So it sounds like a very specific, you know, strain of, like, Canadian liberalism that, I mean, we see, you know, different versions of that in the United States.

I think it's like the added indignity of it also being an openly Zionist co-worker doing a land acknowledgement is like, you know, what would you do if you had like, you mean other than derision? I don't know. Like what are you supposed to do? It depends what your relationship is with them. Right. We've said anytime anyone asks us, what would you do with a Zionist in your life questions. Right. But you might ask them, hey, cool, you know. you ever seen any contradiction in doing a land acknowledgement while you were actively supporting an indigenous population being genocided? Yeah. Do you think that that should apply in all cases? Right. Of land theft and, you know.

Yeah. And I can assume already what the answer would be. And, you know, a lot of the times with these particular types of liberal Zionists, The answer is to try to bolster the purported fucking indigenity of all Jews to the land of Israel. And, you know, it's one of the things I hate about the conversations around, you know, the indigenousness of peoples and the struggles. Like, I understand that they're being disingenuous. but in general my kind of thought is when it comes to you know talking about indigenous peoples sometimes it can obfuscate a very I think specifically I don't know a attainable point or like

one a relatable point which is like what if your house was stolen from you what if your land was taken from you I'm not you know checking the passports of the people whose house was taken be like, well, where are you actually from? I don't care about that. To me, I mean, obviously it is colonialism, so that's why people put it in that specific framework. However, I think in general, people understand the concept of being mad at people who took your house, being mad at people who stole your stuff. To me, that's a much more simpler, I don't know, rubric to look at it than, you know, something a little bit more. academic and maybe a little bit more like not real to especially white people and especially

Western people who are already, you know, kind of, they're already living on stolen land so they can't help but look at themselves as like, well, I mean, does that mean I'm bad? And then they get into the defense mechanisms immediately. That's my. I mean, if it was me and I was on that call, probably what I would do is something like the following. After the land acknowledgement is done, I wouldn't call out the person specifically for being Zionist. I would just, troll them by saying, thank you so much for that beautiful land acknowledgement and this expression of the hope we all have for both truth and reconciliation, and especially for past crimes, crimes that undergird and underwrite the regime that we're living in. And I would just

invite us to think about how can we reconcile ourselves with the truth of what hasn't stopped happening, what is currently happening, not a past crime, but a present crime that our country is paying for, specifically in Palestine done by the country, the government of Israel. How can we strive to be more consistent with the assumed values underneath the very nice sounding land acknowledgement we just heard? Can you get away with that at jobs in Canada? I've never had a, what did you call it, job? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, so I don't know. Yeah, but if you can, that'd be sick. It's not true. I've had jobs in Canada, but I was selling Persian cards. Yeah, hand jobs. Thank you. And on that note. This is why no one's asking me questions.

They're like, Matt just going to say, oh, oh, talking dick, eating butt. It's like, no, I have things inside of me, man. Other than what stuff. He sucks, but he eats dick. Dicks and hands. Ah, come on, man. All right. So next we have a voicemail.

Yeah. Would you guys like to see pro-Palestine activists in the West bring up the Palestinian refugee issue a bit more. It feels like, you know, we talk about apartheid occupation, but, you know, I feel like the refugee issue is very key for solving the Palestine question. Thanks. Well, first of all, if I'm reading your accent correctly, sir, it sounds like you're from the southern half of this great nation, and I'd like to shout out our listeners in the south, in Texas. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you will rise again. Wait, you will not rise again.

Never rise. But thank you for, yeah, any listeners in the South. Yeah, I mean, so if I understand the question correctly, he's asking if pro-Palestine activists should also be talking more about the refugee issue. Yeah, the right of return. Right. I assume he's talking about the Palestinian diaspora's right of return and or the amount of Palestinian refugees and maybe other Arab states in like Jordan. and Lebanon and the conditions that they currently live in. Yeah, it should always be in the foreground. I mean, of course, yeah. You know, and you can really tell when someone has made the journey, like fully made the journey from sort of a Zionist framework to an anti-Zinist framework when they're willing to. And so, for instance, Shiail Benefriam, the liberal Zionist that I interviewed on the show,

not too many months ago back in the summer, back then he was still teetering on the fence. Now he's posting things like this, all this show. it won't end until the genocide ends, the occupation ends, apartheid ends, and Palestine is free, and there's a right of return for all Palestinian refugees. And those are the bottom lines. Yeah, and I think for a lot of pro-Palestine activists, I mean, depending on how much of public figures they are or who their audience is, you know, the way in which they talk about it can kind of seem like, I don't know, 101 for a lot of us. And so when people aren't

addressing the right of return for Palestinians, I don't always necessarily view that as a criticism unless they are actively against it. It depends who it is and depends who their audience is. I think that people who don't talk about it for the specific reason of trying to, you know, get more people to, you know, call more people into the cause in one way or another, I can understand it as getting into the weeds for some people. Because then you're talking about logistics all of the sudden. And I think like some people are just trying to spread the message that this is an apartheid state that's doing a genocide and this needs to end. Look, it's also so diabolical. One of the successes of,

of Zionism is to fracture and fragment what it is to be Palestinian into five or six, you know, connected, but very fractured parts of that hole. Sorry, I just thought of the South Park video game, the fractured butt hole. I mean, listen, and yet people still ask you questions mostly. It's unfair. You know, you've got Palestinians in Gaza who are suffering something very distinct and local there. Physiologically not contiguous with, but obviously very connected to Palestinians in the West Bank who are suffering what they're suffering, but under a different set of circumstances.

And they themselves are physically contiguous but politically separate from Palestinians in East Jerusalem. And they can't travel there even a few miles. And then East Jerusalem, you go across. And then you've got Jordan. Well, let's start with West Jerusalem and the rest of 48 Israel. And they're an entire other people virtually, you know, in terms of their own set of concerns and dilemmas and whatever. And they're the ones we rarely talk about or think about because they're inconvenient for everyone, quite frankly. And then you've got the refugees in the surrounding areas.

And then you've got the Palestinian diaspora here and all over the Western world. Right. how are you supposed to treat this as a singular issue? It's hard. Now, people have found a way by connecting it all to the root, which is the perpetrator, which is Zionism and Israel. And once we take care of that, once we dismantle that structure, then all of these disparate pieces can start to come back together again.

But it's difficult to keep your eye on everything at once, I would say. Right. Yeah, it's funny. This conversation reminds me a little bit of the buying art book. that we just read and talked about with Peter Beinart. And, you know, one of the issues he brings up a couple of times in the book is the name of the state as being like something that has to be worked out, like unlike South Africa, which could stay South Africa without there, you know, being any complaints from any part of the population. you know this keeping the name uh as israel or changing it to israel palestine it was

you know something he brings up a few times and for me i was you know it's like uh it was a issue that i was interested in but um a more cart before the horse type of thing and uh and that's not to say it's the same you know obviously the refugee issue is you know paramount to understanding um and you know to understanding both what's happening and to also having, like, I think, a cogent analysis of it. Was he really in the book raising that as a major obstacle? Or was he sort of saying, look, we can deal with that when we get there? Oh, yeah.

I'm not saying that Bynard was raising it as a major obstacle, but I thought of it as I was, you know, reading it. I was like, you know, this is like one of those, like, I made a joke about this where it's like just call it Palestine with the S-T-E-I-N. and you know like like a goldstein right or Liebenstein but you know um for that matter yeah and so uh you know to me i i think of it as like uh he was tying it to sort of a broader um issue with the what happens after and uh i am connecting it to this only in such to like point out that um You know, there's a logistical issue here where it's like there's a little bit, again, it's cart before the horse. I do think that people should have an analysis on this.

I don't fault anyone who is going to not get into the weeds. I will fault anyone who is against the idea of a Palestinian right of return. And to me, that is not compatible with being, you know, anti-Scientist. Yeah, or human. But, I mean, yeah, it's like the, what the negotiation is after the state of Israel has collapsed, that is going to be, you know, something that I am not a part of. Sort of like the end of apartheid in South Africa. I was not a part of the conversation of, like, you know, what the main.

makeup of the state was going to be and what truth and reconciliation was going to look like. So I don't feel a total, you know, a need for everyone that necessarily comments on it. But I do agree. Activists in general should have an analysis about it. Andrew, on the request line, I'm curious if you have a plan to discuss Israel's historic supportive apartheid in South Africa, maybe on a survey of historic Hasbara. Did we not talk about that with Tony Karen? I'm sure we did.

But, I mean, in terms of going more in depth, we probably could and should. That sounds like one of those episodes that would require us to learn things in advance. Oh, I know a lot about South Africa. That's, yeah, so I could, I could delete that. I've, I read a long walk to freedom. That's seen lethal weapon, too, seven times. Yeah. Diplomatic immunity.

So I know that. Yeah. I made a mistake on that episode saying it was saying it was Beverly Hills cop two, but actually it was lethal weapon too. That's right, yeah. And yes. What an accent. Yeah, and Long Walk to Freedom is very good.

And also the book that- Australia and South Africa are, I think that it's all we need to know about whether white people should go to the Southern Hemisphere to create countries. Well, it's like, well, how does the accent sound when they get there? Shitty? English speakers should not be. settling that part of the globe. It just turns your accent all wonky. It sounds weird. I'm from South Africa. I think we can just stop it at English people should not

be settling. Yeah. Yeah. Stop settling. Stay bachelors. All right. Phoenix asks, is a two-state solution not akin to separate but equal in some way? Or is a true equality just so unattainable that it is the only reasonable path to saving the Palestinian people from this genocide right now? Well, look, first of all, a two-state solution is not akin to separate but equal. It's separate but unequal. Yeah, it's separate and unequal. But, of course, anyone who says anyone who used the phrase separate but equal was probably

gunning for some kind of entrenched inequality anyway. Right. The people who said separate but equal were, did not believe that the separation. They were un-agalitarian. Yeah, it was equal. Because the two-state solution, any solution in which the Jewish state of Israel continues to exist cannot allow an equal

Palestinian entity to exist and an equal Palestinian entity would mean an entity with exactly the number of the same billions of dollars of U.S. support with a military of its own, an air force, with sovereignty over its borders. Anything that would be even, you know, partially considered to be sovereignty.

With contiguous territory, it's just not... Israel can't even live. With Lebanon existing? Yeah. You think that they can, you know, live with a non-contiguous or contiguous Palestinian state? No. And it's because of Zionism specifically. There is no solution that allows Zionism to continue to exist.

Like, even if there was two states, right, you still have a Zionism in which a demographic majority, of Jews is necessary in order for it to continue being a Jewish state. That can't be maintained without Nazi stuff happening. That can't be maintained without like how do you control a population's birth rate?

You know what I mean? How do you control a immigration and whatnot without you know, backsliding into fascism the way that they would certainly do. So, you know, you, you, when I hear two state solution, I think a lot of us, we, we know it's like, you know, it's like a fucking southern southerner in the fucking Jim Crow South saying separate but equal. We know what you mean when

you say two state solution, which is just like a continued status quo of, yeah, of inequality and maybe in the future state of free, you know, the future free state of Palestine, they could throw the Zionist Sabone and so to speak and turn the decommissioned nuclear power plant of Demona into a giant like AI hologram simulation of the before times when Zionism reign. Like a theme park, you know, for people who are going through withdrawal to go and enjoy the good old days. But you have to quarantine from the rest of the population for a full month after you attend. And there's exit programs and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah.

Kind of methadone. Yeah, and in terms of like, you know, the realpolitik of it all and, you know, people who say that, you know, people who are anti-Zionists and do talk about the possibility of a two-state solution, you know, I, again, look at a lot of this as cart before the horse. I don't know what the negotiation is going to be when Israel eventually collapses. And I am not there to, you know, as a voice and, you know, activist or whatever the fuck, I'm not going to immediately concede the idea of like immediately handing over a rhetorical concession when I'm not even in the fucking room and, you know, speaking out for a two-state solution to me is like kind of ridiculous. It's like if you want to project what you think might happen, fine, but I'm not going to advocate for the continuance of Zionism, and I never would. And I don't think, and any basis, even tactically, on which you could have argued, and

Finkelstein did throughout the odds that BDS was making a strategic error because, you know, if you want to use international law as your impetus for changing things, then if you want to go at the green, you have to stop at the red, and Israel is recognized as a state, well, but international law is completely collapsed. Humanitarian law is completely collapsed. Israel's seen to it. And the facts on the ground have made, and I don't hear Norman talking about his two-state solution anymore.

Yeah. You know, so, I mean, he never thought it was the moral solution. No, of course not. Of course not. But he made the distinction between the law and the application of the law and moral rights versus political strategy and those are those are valuable distinctions of course in 2025 i don't think we're living in the same world that we right yeah and i always put myself in a you know position of um you know am i someone who necessarily needs to opine um you know in in in that matter

and i don't see that as my um as my role you know i don't see it as like i'm not gonna i i just it's something I personally hate when people immediately are like, here's the state I see. And it's like, I don't, I don't care. Yeah, we're not running for office. Are you all to have to have. Yeah, exactly. I don't want a negotiating committee. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, just like, here's what I think should happen. Cool, are you a diplomat or just? Right. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And we're not all running for office. We don't have to have a complete raft of political positions on every conceivable thing. Like, here's my platform. Right. And I think it's a trap a lot of the times, you know, and people, I think, too easily fall into it in which they go, well, what are you going to do in the Middle East?

How are you going to solve it? You're so smart. And they all have that voice. They all have that voice. Oh, you think you're, you think you're so smart, huh, girl? They're usually yelling at a girl. It doesn't happen to me that much. It happens to, like, you know, Emma Vigland or something like that or Rania, uh, uh, uh, Calick who was just like getting yelled at by.

somewhere oh you're smart uh what are you going to do ovaries yeah what are you going to do girl how are you going to solve the middle east cry you're a girl that's how they talk all right so anand asks nothing seems to have changed in two years i know the podcast has a whole mix of anti-zionist jews but do you guys honestly believe you represent the jewish community at large which continues to which continues to institutionally and overwhelmingly support Israel and their so-called right to defend itself.

When have we ever said anything that made you think that we think we represent the Jewish community at large? If we represented the Jewish community at large, we wouldn't need to do this podcast. You've got to stop saying at the top of every episode that this is the opinion of world jury. I think that's what's confusing people.

Welcome to Bad Hasbara, the voice of Judaism. Yeah, the world. only Jewish people. All right, well, Anand has a little more to say. Okay, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. Say, I thought we weren't allowing statements. It's questions. It's in there.

Yeah, there's some QMs at the end. Sorry, we've been doing this recording now for about two and a half hours. We're getting a little punchy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The majority of Jews are Zionists and will continue to be. Even if they're supposedly critical of Netanyahu,

there's no indication that will ever change. every Jew I know is still rabidly Zionist. Quite honestly, how do you not feel futile when all you can do is just dunk on losers on Twitter when they're getting everything they want? Israel is going to win. It feels like Palestine has no future. That's dangerously close to a statement, Adam.

Yeah. That's got real statement energy with a little question mark slipped in there to make it sound interrogative. Yeah, it should have ended with thoughts. Just wondering if you could speak to that. Yeah. I mean, listen, I'm happy to deal with this.

What kind of, I mean, it's hard to tell whether or not that's a bad faith question or that is just a frustrated, you know, listener. And to be honest, it's like I don't blame any of our actual listeners for being pessimistic. It's hard to not be pessimistic. But we will take it as if it is in good faith. faith. I think it might be. Yeah. Um, you know, so first, uh, do you guys honestly believe you represent the Jewish community at large? No. We have never ever claimed to represent the Jewish community at large. We do not represent, uh, the, the majority opinion of Jews at

large, nor even if we could claim that we have played a small part in a small uptick of Jewish support for Palestinian rights and Jewish discussed with Israel and Zionism, even if we wanted to claim that we've made some contribution to that, and I don't think it's implausible. Well, I don't think it's implausible to say we made some contribution, whatever. Right. We're part of something. Hannah Einbeiner's made a contribution, you know? Right.

That still wouldn't be nearly enough. It wouldn't be enough. We wouldn't be able to say the tide has turned. We would not be able to say Jews at large have been saved or denotified from Zionism. Yes. Thanks to us or anything else. Right. And, you know, it goes on in the question the majority of Jews or Zionists will continue to be, even if they're supposedly critical of Netanyahu, there's no indication that that will ever change. I feel like that to me feels like a lot of like, you know, I see the future.

It's like mixing a few things. Number one, it's the idea that like- And only we can do mysticism in predicting the future. Exactly. If you're not a Kabbalah practitioner. When we look into our crystal-knacht ball. That's right, yeah, our crystal-knock-cabala. And too many, I've added too much. I've added too much to the pun.

Yeah, the, there's sort of, there's two things going on there where it's like you're the assumption that, you know, the people who are critical of Netanyahu, you know, we're talking about the liberal Zionists and a lot of kind of mainstream. Jewish institutions that have even slightly, you know, dissented from the voice of the whole or whatever. The furthest they've gone is just being like Netanyahu's the problem. From an institutional level, yes, I agree that there doesn't seem to be in any indication that these institutions are going to change. We talked about this with Peter Beinart on our previous

episode about it being kind of, you know, it's hard to know what the strategy is, you know, inside of the Jewish community, whether it's like trying to co-opt those institutions or create our own. And I, you know, still do not know the answer to that. I think the idea when you say things like, the majority of Jews are Zionists and will continue to be forever and ever. You don't know that. You don't know that. You can't know that. And I see that as like particularly, um, insidious because of the fact that it also, it's acting as if Zionism is, it's Zionist propaganda that, you know, Zionism is somehow fundamental to Judaism and fundamental to the Jewish people, when it is very much, as we've said on this podcast, a thousand times, a modern construct. It is very much the modern, you know, Zionism is from a hundred years ago. That's it. And it's not a special kind of person who can be cured of their Zionism. The fact is, it's curable.

Yes. Yes. There's a lot of factors mitigating against that. Right. There's a lot of money against it. A lot of money, a lot of emotional currency that's been invested in it. A lot of people's, and it's all emotional. This is the thing, guys.

Like, we're talking about politics, but especially when it comes to tribal stuff like this, people's attachment to their Zionism is an attachment in their minds. Peter makes this point beautifully in his book, to family, to places of worship, to places of early childhood education, to things people cling to for their ideas about themselves. And people do not give up their identities easily, unless there's something else being offered to them that they can find appealing or that they, or they just think they can't live with the contradictions anymore. And all we can do is keep applying the pressure.

of speaking what we see as the truth and heightening the contradictions and people, you know, and making it harder and harder for the cognitive distance to dwell inside one mind and increasing that, the intensity of it and spreading it to the point where more, and you never know when you're making popcorn, you know, you're fucking, the kernels are sitting there in the pen

and nothing's happening and then one pops, another one pops, and then before you know it, you lift the lid off and the whole thing's popped. And there's a few kernels at the bottom who, and what's true is some people will never, some people will never get out. That's true. Some of those,

most people. Some of those Jews will never pop into corn. That's exactly right. Is that what you're saying? Pop into cornfield. Yeah. But look, this goes for politics in general. Yeah.

You don't do work for the, look, you listen to podcasts for instant gratification. If you're, if you're looking to have a hit of, oh, wow, some people agree with me and they're charismatic, funny, handsome and have great

skin care and then Matt's there too and also Matt is there you turn into a podcast every week and that's partly what we're here for it's a it's an IV drip of nutrients right

but we're not going to stay in your bloodstream forever and we're not going to make a damn bit of like immediate difference to the situation politics is something different politics takes a lot of patience and and you know

true culture is based on a willingness to work towards outcomes, you will not live to see. Are you willing to do that? Are you willing to keep the faith and not have your investment in values be contingent upon you reaping the benefits in your lifetime? I don't mean to come down hard on you and on, but I think your question is speaking to a threat of despair that's probably running through many of us and wondering when the fuck is this going to change and if not, what's the point?

Well, we each have to decide for ourselves what we want to be a part of and what we want to stand for, whether or not the change is in the offing or not. Yeah. And in terms of feeling futile when all you can do is dunk on losers on Twitter, when they're getting everything they want. The answer is to dunk on more losers. Yeah. You know, if one or two losers doesn't do it for you, three or four might.

And if you, I don't know, if you find yourself, I think, feeling, you know, that this is all futile just know that you are just you are listening to a podcast you are this is uh this is not um uh i wouldn't necessarily prescribe podcasting consumption as a method of feeling good about world much less twitter like get off twitter permanently if that's how you're feeling yeah and and when you say like oh you know they're all the the Zionists at the end of the day they're getting what they want It's like, yeah, I know. That's why they, that's why we are, that's why we do this is because of the fact that it, you know, because we don't want them to win. And that's, that's why we do it. And I think like, the pessimism of Israel is going to win and Palestine has no future. To me is like, I would say, you know, you could probably take that to a therapist. Yeah, touch grass. Yeah, and, you know, and that's not to be mean about it, but I feel like the amount of resiliency that I've seen within Palestinians during, you know, living out conditions that I could never imagine myself living through, they seem to be more, I don't know, they have more resilience than that.

And they're capable of, and the resilience is not just a bitter survivalism. There's joy. Yeah. There's love. There's heart and there's hope. I mean, that's the word Samud means steadfastness. What's that? There's music and there's poetry.

And there's music and there's poetry. And Samud, steadfastness, after which the global Samud flitilla was named. And really glad to see our friend Tig is free. Have we heard any news about Greg? Stoker? He's free. He's free, too. Greg and Tyg are free.

that's good um steadfastness again like what i said like fighting for something not because there's a win that's coming like tomorrow or whatever but because it gives you life to do so and it's fine to take a break if you're at the point where you're so blackpilled that you you know it's just the more you see the more depressed you get and the less heartened you get well then go tend to your heart yes yeah And I think that is, to me, the most important advice is you should prioritize your mental health in all of this because you are not, if what you're trying to do is enact change in some way, you know, you're not going to be useful if you are, you know, this. this depressed and pessimistic and if and a lot for a lot of our listeners enacting change um is not necessarily you know they're not listening to this to learn you know different ways to be active

necessarily it's for a lot of it it is just kind of like getting together and being like we're the same ones everyone else is fucking crazy and i think that is a more healthy way to engage with um any content and any podcasting is remember that it's um it's it's done by the stupidest people in the world sometimes. This podcast may be food for you, it may be fuel for you, but primarily it's a laxative. Yeah, yeah. It allows you to let go of the shit that isn't serving you. And I just want to say to, because I think that's, to me, this is a great question to go out on,

even though it's, you know, it's low-key, pessimistic. I want to say just in terms of fighting that bit of pessimism, I look at all of the, you know, sort of way in which people engage with this and they see the nothing changing and they're looking at things through this very, you know, I mean, a lens that I think is understandable, which is that like you're seeing a very slow moving action while people are being genocided every day. And it all feels, you know, for some people, it can feel futile and whatnot.

But if you do kind of take a step back and try to look culturally at the very least at what has changed, I think you would be surprised as to the amount of, yeah, the amount of like, cultural change and the way the wind is blowing in terms of how people are talking about this I've never seen so much support for Palestine in my life and you know this is something that I've cared about and talked about for a long time so I still have optimism because I can

look at it from a longer view that doesn't of course you know doesn't mean the genocidal end tomorrow. And we can only hope that it does. But I don't know. No human being has ever seen a tectonic plate shift. Yeah. That's never been witnessed ever by anyone. It doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Doesn't mean it hasn't profoundly influenced everything about the planet we live on. That's right. And it doesn't mean it's not happening just because you can't see it or feel it. Absolutely. Guys, I think that's it. I think that is our mailbag episode. We invite you to please listen to our answers to other questions on the Patreon. So go to patreon.com slash bad as barra if you would like to listen to those Patreon exclusive episodes.

Thank you to everyone who submitted. It was very cool how many people were eager to write into us. Thank you to all those who have questions for Daniel, not me. I don't even care obviously I'm not bothered I am booked and busy I have self-esteem that no man

can put asunder and thank you to producer Adam for getting all these messages together my pleasure Patreon.com slash bad asbarra at gmail.com for your questions comments and concerns

we will be back with our regularly scheduled guest episodes very soon but for now thanks for listening and until next time from the river to the sea you guys sure ask questions separately but unequally yeah that's true jumping jacks was us push-ups was us godmaga us all karate us taking molly us michael jackson us yamaha keyboards us jarja mix on us andor was us keith ledger joker us endless red-sex us Happy meals was us McDonald's was us

Being happy us Bequam yoga us Eating food us Breeding air us Drinking water us We invented all that shit Thank you.