Bad Hasbara - The World's Most Moral Podcast - 156: Plausible Reliability, with Orly Noy

Episode Date: November 4, 2025

Matt and Daniel are joined by journalist, Editor at +972's Local Call, Chair of Board of B'tselem, and translator of Farsi literature into Hebrew, Orly Noy to talk through Israel's Force 100 masked sexual violence squad, Israel's bad press obsession, and an oceanic non-suicide disappearance phone disposal coverup attempt twistier than a rejected Law & order spec script.Please donate to Gaza Great Minds: http://gazagreatminds.org/donate/Join the patreon at https://www.patreon.com/badhasbaraOrly Noy at +972: https://www.972mag.com/writer/orlyn/Bad Hasbara Merch Store:https://estoymerchandise.com/collections/bad-hasbara-podcastGet tickets for Fancesca Fiorentini and Matt Lieb November 1 at the Ice House in Pasadena: https://www.showclix.com/event/new-world-disorder-11-01-25-7-pmSubscribe to the Patreon https://www.patreon.com/badhasbaraWhat’s The Spin playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/50JoIqCvlxL3QSNj2BsdURSkad Skasbarska playlist: http://bit.ly/skadskasbarskaSubscribe/listen to Bad Hasbara wherever you get your podcasts.Spotify https://spoti.fi/3HgpxDmApple Podcasts https://apple.co/4kizajtSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/bad-hasbara/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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To really augment the podcast partnerships, bring them full circle, I just can't recommend them enough. If you want to give it a try, go to Red Circle.com to get your free trial. That's Red Circle.com for a free trial. Hello, hot bitch, we invented the terry tomato And weighs USB drives and the iron d'all. Israeli salad, oozy, stents, and jopas, orange rose Micro chips is us, iPhone cameras, us, taco salads, us, Pothas, Bodhis, Olavamos us, olive garden us, white foster us,

Sabra Hamas, Hasvara suss. Welcome to Bad Hezbarra. World's Most Moral Podcast, comma, the. Find us in the Dewey Decimal System, y'all. My name is Matt Lebo. Be your most moral co-host for this podcast. Daniel Mate, other one. Hello.

That's right. Both of us together equal one most moral super being out here, doing morality, unironically. Shout out to producer Adam Levin. also being very moral on the lower thirds. Subscribe to us on YouTube and on the podcast apps, please. Subscribe to our Patreon. If you want to get a bonus episode every week,

a double dose of Daniel and Matt, then you can go to patreon.com. And all our amazing guests. And so many amazing guests. I mean, that's the thing. It's not just more of us. It's more of people that we know and like, who we put on the podcast and talk about,

stuff with. Last week it was Morgan Bassicus. If you want to see a hilarious clip from that episode, go to our YouTube. That's right. Our YouTube sometimes has clips of the stuff that maybe, you know, you were a little too cheap to pay for. I'm not saying holistically you're cheap. I'm saying in this case, here's a little free taste. Matt, speaking of paying for things, congratulations to your LA Dodgers for buying the World Series. Well, genuinely, no, genuinely. It was a one, it was an incredible. It wasn't a. Game seven victory. Heartbreaking for our Blue Jays, but boy, oh boy, you guys pulled it out,

and the Jays left themselves open to that comeback. I know. I mean, I truly was shocked by it. It was what a comeback. I couldn't believe it. I can't believe that this went seven games. There were so many different opportunities for the Jays to win the World Series and the fact that they got that close and didn't I felt a little bad about.

But at the same time, you know, when it comes to the money stuff, it's like I feel like, you know, God wanted us to have that money to have the roster and payroll that we have. If he didn't, then he wouldn't have so much Israeli involvement, investment in your team or your teams. Is there a reason they called them the Tel Aviv Dodgers? They, there's no, I have no comment. The point is, is that the Dodgers are a wonderful franchise, wonderful organization. Originally from Brooklyn, you're welcome for the, that's true. That's true. And then they, of course, did Alia to Los Angeles, where they have always spiritually been from.

Moving on up to the west side. That's right. And, you know, yeah, they play on one of L.A.'s best ice staging grounds. True, true, true, true. You know, in a way, Dodger Stadium was the first ice. They went in and, you know, kind of just, you know, got rid of all the native population that lived there and put a stadium on it. The point is, is we're all very proud of our Dodgers here in Los Angeles, and sorry to the city of Toronto, but you'll always have that one guy who did that interview a few years, like 12 years ago, who was talking about Waterloo and all the vampires there. Did you ever see that?

I never did. Oh, it's one of the greatest street interviews I've ever seen. It's like, hey, hi, guys. You know me, Steve Spiros. Easy going? He's just yelling at this person who just asked what his name was. Oh, you have to watch it.

It's one of the best. Anyways, today's sponsor is Gaza Great Minds. Gaza Great Minds provides safe tent classrooms and quality education to Gaza's children affected by war. The charity works against the odds and logistical challenges to bring hope and smiles back to children's faces.

If you would like to support them in their efforts, go to Gaza great minds.org slash donate. There is a link in the description, so click that link, donate some money. They need it more than we do and probably more than you do, I imagine.

So yeah, do that, please Gazagreatminds.org slash donate. Daniel, what's the spin? I've got this brand new record by my favorite guitar player in the world, Vernon Reed, of Living Color. The album is called Houdoo Telematry. It came out last month, and it's beautiful and brilliant.

Good name. Hoodoo Telemetry, isn't it good? Houdoo Telemetry is the greatest album name I've heard in years. He's got all of his album names are great. Mistaken identity, other true self, known, unknown. He's very existential. Anyway, I picked some other great guitar albums in honor that

Eric Johnson what is it called? Via Musicom with the great song, Cliffs of Dover on it. I know the Eclipse of Dover from a Decemberus song. This one's better, I promise you. I don't know about that. Here on the cliffs of Dover, so high you can't see over.

See, this is my generation of music. I understand. You know? I don't even want to think about the Decemberists unless it's December, so save it. Fair enough, fair enough. Grant Green, jazz guitarist that Vernon Reed put me on to, with his cover of I Want to Hold Your Hand by The Beatles and a bunch of other great covers. Tony Rice, an amazing flat-picking bluegrass guitar.

player. My only qualm with this LP is that the CD version has his cover of the record of the Edmund Fitzgerald by Gordon Lifefoot. It's not on the record for some reason, but it's still wonderful music. Pat Metheny, jazz great, bright-sized life, classic. I recently saw Eric Clapton in concert. Miko Pellid held a Gaza benefit, a private concert, and I got to see Eric Clapton with like a thousand other people. All the cool shit happens in New York. It's super unfair. When will you learn? And so I've got Derek and the Dominoes here, which also has Duane Allman on it, with Layla

on it, this is Leila and other love songs. Yeah, a beautiful album actually. And Clapton, I really slept on him, not with him, but on him, for too many years, because Leila was boring and tears in heaven, I always scoffed at, but when he played it recently at the concert, I actually cried real tears. It's really good.

I like that song he does, If I could change Oh, change the world is great. My father's eyes is great. It's fantastic. And his guitar plays, he's just a god. And I never, it was one of the best concert experiences in my life. And finally, I featured it before, but at the time, it was not available on Spotify.

And it just has been re-released both on LP and on streaming. So I want to encourage our playlist keeper to put this one on finally, Buckingham Nix. Lindsay Buckingham, one of the most absolutely underrated guitarist. This is from just before they joined Fleetwood Mac. In fact, this was the record that McFleet would heard and had him invite them to join the band. Oh, that's wild. It's a beautiful record by the two of them, back when they were young and cherubic and boning each other. I know.

Back when they were in love. Yeah. But they wrote some pretty great songs about no longer being in love. In fact, I would say the bulk of their best work is about them breaking up. It's something else to see them on stage together, singing songs about each. each other and looking at each other and singing harmonies on each other's breakup songs yeah it is uh it's it's wild there's uh i've never seen a band with so much sexual tension even in their like 70s i'm just like they're old but i just want to see them get together it's the will they won't

they of rock and roll history yeah and the answer is won't they they won't um so that's what's spinning uh those are all some wonderful wonderful records before we go on i just just want to check in because with today's episode we're going to be talking about israeli politics and uh you know we're going to be talking about stories that have been breaking you know the last year now but uh stuff that is breaking into the mainstream here in the united states we're finally hearing about what's going on with and it's breaking some brains too it's breaking a lot of brains uh so but before we get there i did want to quickly just check in with uh the good old u.s and day uh, uh,

What's going on at the White House? And I just want to play this video from the press corps over at the White House. And just a very normal question-and-answer session that happened very recently. So, you know, looking at these renderings, and it kind of got me thinking. He's likely going to go down as the greatest builder of this era. And you've been in on a lot of those meetings with him. Has, to your knowledge, has the subject of rebuilding the Holy Temple in Jerusalem come up? It has not.

Pause. When did muttel-comsoil the tailor become a White House press guy? The things that you do to impress Tevia, my God. The stringer muttel-comsoil. Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah. Just asking questions. You know, it's so funny.

For those who aren't watching, but are rather just listening. Yes. We have a, first time I've ever actually seen, have you seen this? Have you heard of this? There's an Orthodox Jew, apparently, with full-on payas.

Yep. He's not wearing a top hat, but he's wearing a sort of... A newsboy cap. Yeah. It's the newsboy. It's the, it's the orthodox from Newsboy Cap. Yes.

And he is at the, you know, the press pool at the White House. The same pool that, you know, luminaries like Helen Thomas used to be at before she was fired for simply suggesting that Palestinians were humans. And Sam Hussein could just go home. Right. And, yeah. And so I, it's funny, when this video started, you're just like, okay, just be because there's an orthodox Jewish person asking a question at the White House, you know, press pool.

Like, anyone can be a journalist. It's okay. There's not a problem. Of course, he... All else being equal, representation matters. Oh, oops, all else isn't equal. All else is not equal. So we all know Trump's going to go down as the greatest builder of our generation of all time. but I just have some questions about rebuilding the third temple Has the subject of rebuilding the holy temple in Jerusalem come up? It has not, no, it has not. I don't, I'm sorry, joke. Go ahead.

I just, you know, listen, the point is... Did she say it has not? I'm sorry, Jew. I think his name is Joe, but it sounded like Jew to me. Joe. I love it. I love it because you just never know what you're going to get in the White House Press Corps. And man, so things are going good here in the United States. But now we are going overseas. This episode, we ourselves are making Alia by talking about Israel for, you know, local politics for a good portion of this episode. And what better person to do it with than our next guest. She is the chair. of board for Betselaam, the Israeli Human Rights Organization, a journalist,

the editor at Local Call, which is at 972 Magazine, also translates Farsi literature into Hebrew. Ladies and gentlemen and everyone else, welcome. First time on the podcast, Orly Noi. Hey.

Hi, guys. Thank you so much for having me. Ahlalang, Burm, Baham. Welcome. Vohem, my name's time. I was in suspense for a minute to hear what her answer was going to be, whether or not they actually do talk maybe about, you know, rebuilding the third temple. That's, uh, yeah, I know.

Me too. I was like, oh, boy, oh, boy. What if this answer is, uh, oh, yeah. Oh, we're doing it. We're on. I feel like if they actually did, though, I think the religiously, the Trump third temple, the Trump third temple, I think they'd be disappointed because he'd just knocked down half of it and put up a giant casino.

Yes. Yeah, it's true. on the other hand, I actually do live in Jerusalem, and that could have done wonders for the prices of, you know, property in Jerusalem. So maybe, you know, there is something to consider there. Something to consider. I mean, listen, if there's one thing that Trump name is synonymous with, it's helping all of the other real estate around it do well. Yes. It is an incredible moment at the White House Press Corps. So Orly, you are a journalist.

You are the editor at Local Call, which is affiliated with 972 magazine. And you are a translator of Farsi literature into Hebrew, which you described before the pod as your great passion. Yeah. Can I just ask you a little bit about that for a moment? What kind of literature do you translate? Like, what is it that you do? Prows and poetry Yeah, it is really my greatest passion

I was born in Iran We immigrated to Israel With the Islamic Revolution I was nine at the time But I grew up in a very Very Iranian household So my parents always made sure that You know I would read books

In Farsi and that would be listening To Farsi music and whatnot Sure Can I ask a question just about that like sort of a side question. So when I think about the earlier waves of immigration or importation of Mizrahi Jews from all over the Arab world and Africa, it was a concerted effort by the Zionist movement

and the state of Israel to try and pad the numbers demographically, right? And then in conjunction with that, there was a deliberate effort made to have these people replace their Arab and Arabic-speaking identities with an Israeli, Hebrew-speaking one, in terms of the outflux of Iranian Jews to Israel during the Islamic Revolution, which was in the 70s, right? The late 70s? Yeah, the very late 70s, yeah. Right.

Was there anything as, like, how involved was the Israeli government or the Histadrude in that operation? Were they working behind the scenes? or was it just sort of a surprising outcome that just resulted in those immigration? And then what was the treatment of Farsi-speaking Jews like when you arrived? So actually, I think that the majority

of the Iranian Jewish community didn't immigrate to Israel, but rather to the States. To Los Angeles, baby. To Tehranjolos, to be more accurate. Yeah, Tehranjolos, that's right. Yeah. Yeah.

So I don't think that at this time the Sochnut was very involved. And later on, you know, with the Iran-Iraq war, when the borders of Iran actually closed down, then they couldn't have done anything anyhow. So like my grandparents, they escaped on donkeys and horses through Pakistan and Afghanistan. So I don't think that the Sochnut was that involved. Right. I misspoke. It's not the history.

It's the Sochnut. Yeah. Yeah. Regarding how we were treated here, it was. It wasn't as hostile or as violent as the, you know, stripping the Arab Jews of their identity because we weren't Arabs and I think that, you know, for Israel, but it made a huge difference because they didn't want to be confused with the wrong kind of Arabs, you know, so you had to meet, you know, and if you come from an Arabic, you know, if Arabic is your language and it's your, it's your, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's. these are your traditions and your history and your culture, then the state will make you, will force you to differentiate yourself from the bad kind of Arab.

That wasn't the case with the Iranian immigration. We weren't that many of us anyhow, so they didn't bother with them. We were just received with, you know, with the same arrogance and ignorance that Israel looks, you know, That is known for, yeah. Yeah, you know. Your average immigration officer at Ben-Gurion Airport treats, you know, a non-Jewish tourist. Yeah, because, you know, I hold Baraka, I think, very accurately described Israel as a villa in the jungle,

and I would add a white villa in a jungle. So in these terms, you know, according to these terms, we came nonetheless from the jungle, even though we weren't Arabs. So we were, you know, tweeted the same, I was asked, you know, Tehrana at the time was so much more advanced than developed anything that existed in Israel. And yet I was asked not by kids, but actually by teachers if I had ever seen an elevator, if we were driving, you know, things like that, which were. And I will just, you know, the reason I started translating is because I was, I was Googling, I don't remember. remember why I googled in Hebrew, Farsi literature. And then Hebrew-Google answered back, do you mean Russian literature?

And I thought, well, you know. It sounds like you are searching for foreign countries we've heard of. And I thought, well, Google, I mean, doesn't have a sense of humor. He's not kidding me. You just really genuinely doesn't know the concept of Farsi literature, which, you know, it's only there's birthplace of Eastern civilization, but one would... So I started translating, yeah. Yeah, the first thing you did was translate an elevator instruction manual

written in the 1920s. You were like, just so you know we have had elevators for a bit. I swear we could have spent the next hour and a half just talking about how ridiculously this you know ignorance was and sad and yeah it was just I for example I went to a Jewish school in Iran so I I learned Hebrew and English and Farsi from kindergarten while in Israel they only started teaching English from third grade so when I came I like I was in huge advanced you know I was hugely advanced compared to but they put me in the you know, lower grades in all the, all these subjects, mathematics, English,

just assuming that because I come from Iran, then, you know, maybe she's a little slower. She's a little issue and it's so, yeah. Wow. About the relationship between Iran and Israel now and Jews and, you know, Persian people, there's a lot to say. My brother's outlet, the Grey Zone, just put out of document. about Iran's Jews, like now, the existing Jewish community there, which seems relatively robust.

But one of the things we have covered with guests like Samira Moiden, who lives in Toronto, but is of Iranian descent or origin, I think, maybe she's Canadian born, anyway, is the Iranian faction of the Hezbarre industry, people like Elyca, Le Bonn, and other accounts who, you know, weaponized their Persian identity as you know trying to make the case to regime change for regime change yes how do you how do you view that and and what's your positionality been with regard to Iran's relationship to the West and its proxy Israel yeah first I mean there is a misconception that doesn't matter how many times we repeated people just refuse to understand that there is a difference between being anti-Semite and anti-Zionist and the Iranian regime,

which is, of course, very aggressively anti-Zionist and anti-Israelis, is actually very accepted to the Jewish community. I still have first cousins living there. They have a representative in the Iranian parliament and so on. Now, regarding the Iranian Israelis that use their identity to, you know, you want to be an Israeli patriot fine that you need to deal with that and your conscience and your morality. But to actually, I mean, there is a question, what kind of change do you want? I also want to see change in Iran. I do want to see a regime.

I want to see a free Iran. I want to see a liberated Iranian people. But the change that these people, you know, try to promote is the change that the Israeli regime wants to see in Iran, which is a very different thing from a liberated free Iran. It's going back to the time that Iran was subjected to Western desires. is going back to 1953 with overthrown

the British and American overthrown of the really biggest until today the biggest tragedy of Iran's modern in Iran's modern history the way they

overthrew Mossade which was Iran's democratic hope and maybe everything would have been different had it not been for this school arranged by the West. It's surprising since he had Mossad

in his name. And speaking about Mossad, they want to go back to the time that the Israeli Mossad built for the Shah, for the late Shah, the Savak, the very notorious secret

police, which tortured countless Iranian political opposition and it's continuing the same mechanism is oppressing and torturing today political opposition. So this is the Iran they want to take us back to and this is, I mean, it's not just being

not anti-patriotic as Iranians, just being shitty people, you know, just as human beings. Yeah, all right, apparently, you haven't heard of the new, new definition of anti-Semitism, which is when you would rather be oppressed by the people currently oppressing you than by Jews

who would like to come and oppress you on behalf of the West. That's right. Yeah, yeah. I think that really, and I want to be serious for a moment because, you know, speaking about definition of anti-Semitism, more and more I'm being convinced that

giving Israel, as a Jewish state, exemption from norms of humanity is the most frightening demonstration of anti-Semitism in our time to say that as a Jewish

collective, the human norms do not apply to you. I think this is horrifying. Yes, this is, I mean, for me, that has been my number one realization when it comes to anti-Semitism and the actual perpetrators and, you know, the ones, the promoters of anti-Semitism, to me, there's no bigger anti-Semitic enterprise than the Israeli, you know, embodiments or personification of we are representing all Jews of the world. And so, therefore,

everything we do is, you know, both justified and a representation of who we are. And we're doing so because we hate everything about Jewish history that doesn't involve domination and dominion. Exactly. You know, you read that the Javitinsky's tracks about ghetto Jews and it's straight out of der Sturmur. Okay, completely. And just erasing 2,000 years of creation, of thought and of... Contribution. Yeah.

Yeah. And, you know, you, we've been reading a lot of your work. regarding internal Israel politics and and also just, you know, the externalities of what the world views us as or, you know, views the Jewish state as. I want to talk a little bit about some of these articles. This is something that you, you know, as people who will occasionally read, you know, stuff from Haaret's, you know, newspaper and whatnot. 972 magazine, you know, occasionally has something like this, something you wrote September this year. Israel is waging a Holocaust in Gaza. Denazification is our only remedy.

First of all, great headline, you know. Thank you. Really straight to the point. It was, you know, as soon as I thought, I was like, all right, here we go. Let's do this. Can you explain a little bit about what you mean by denazification just to edify our listeners? Yeah, I think, I mean, the biggest question that I, you know, I am preoccupied with for a long time now is how did we as a Jewish, you know, the Jewish Israeli society, reach that point of so, you know, of committing a genocide, but not. The Israeli Jewish society celebrated the genocide that was happening in Gaza.

And the other question that I'm thinking about a lot is where do we go from here? I mean, what is our horizon for rehabilitation, for returning to humanity, to the, you know, know, because, and it's going to be a very long process because societies do not just turn genocidal, even by the most horrifying trigger like October 7th. It doesn't, if you don't have the preconditions, you do not become a genocidal and also suicidal. but a genocidal community. So I think that, you know, part of this process or the beginning of the process of rehabilitation

is going to have to be us asking ourselves, what happened to us? How did we get to the point of becoming a genocidal society? What? And, you know, asking really genuinely asking ourselves, being courageously asking ourselves this question, inevitably will mean to retrace our steps back all the way to the Nakhba because there hasn't been a single day in a single month,

in a single year since 1948, that didn't lead us to the point, to the horrifying, horrifying catastrophe. that we brought on our neighbors, also on ourselves, but we committed a genocide. This is not something to be taken lightly. And we need to be, you know, accountable for that. And really for our own sake, for our own sake, to ask what happened to us.

Well, and you also to suggest strongly or even come out and say that the entire project of Zionism is going to have to crumble because that reckoning cannot take place under Zionism because Zionism necessitated the unfinished genocide of 1948 and the delayed culmination of it in Gaza. But let me ask you this. That accountability, you said that societies don't become genocidal overnight. I would argue that societies don't unbecome genocidal overnight

and they only start to unbecome it under certain conditions. And that's what I'm curious about. What do you think the minimal conditions are before Jewish-Israeli society as a whole, whether it is still under the rubric of an Israel, would even consent to such a process? The Nazis had to be defeated outright, smashed, destroyed, that country absolutely brought to heal because it was a lunatic state. And Israel has certainly reached that descriptor, you know. So I love looking ahead to the day when Israeli Jews will reckon with that. But what needs to happen first? So I absolutely agree with you.

And I think that defeat in a way is a precondition. I actually think that, you know, a defeat can really save us from ourselves. And this also connects to my more recent article about, you know, why do they keep body? boycotting us well because we committed genocide. And I think that it's actually really important that boycotting Israel will not end with this genocide because, again, it's not something that, you know, we've done and now we are going back to the way we were before. Also, the genocide is ongoing and not just ongoing in terms of like the ceasefire is obviously, fire is not ceasing. ongoing in terms of since 48 the genocide is ongoing. I mean, this is

this is the Israel has not been outside of being mid-genocide since 48 and so you know it is, I love the article why do they keep boycotting us? Because it's, you know, it's

written with that sort of you know, I assume a figure that you see a lot more than we do here in the United States of people who who don't understand why the status quo

is a bad thing, even if the previous iteration of it was the active bombing, or at least the, I don't know, the official, I don't know what you call this new round of bombing. This is the unofficial bombing and murder of of Ghazans, whereas before, you know, it was okay and official. So yeah, I love, you know, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I just, I mean, it's like people really, after every cycle of Israel opening the gates of hell on Gaza, there was this notion that, okay, we are going back to the status quo, but what was the status quo for the Gazans? Do you know how, for how many years, Israel has been counting the amount of,

calories that each Gazan is allowed to consume daily, it's long before October 7th. For how many longs it's been shooting at fishermen going out to fish on the shores of Gaza long before October 6th. So, you know, statusful and going back to normal meant something completely different for Gaza for two decades. Right, which leads directly to October 7th. And another component of it is rhetorically, Israelis have just gotten used to speaking about Palestinians and the Palestinians of Gaza, especially, as less than human.

When Israel massacres 2,000, 4,000 Palestinians in the matter of weeks or months, it's called mowing the lawn. And again, speaking of denatification, right, you'd have to denoxify the language. You'd actually have to re-educate people that don't know. Those are human beings and you are sick in the head. You've been conditioned to be a toxic narcissist. And just like in interpersonal relationships, a lot of psychologists kind of despair of the possibility of ever rehabilitating a narcissist.

And that's an individual person. You know, and you really have to show them the ruinous consequences of their behavior. How that happens on a national scale kind of boggles my mind. And speaking of language, you know, it trickles down even to the most liberal spheres. Take Aarets, for example.

which I think I have great respect and admiration. I think that, you know, all in all there are great colleagues and very good journalism and an important one in the Israeli, you know, media landscape. But even in our audience, you can find a headline, speaking of terrorists who shot at soldiers in the occupied territories. Now, the international law allows, actually, it allows occupied people to resist with arms against military occupying forces in the occupied territory. That's not, I mean, according to the international law, you don't need to be like a radical left. But still, you see that that language, you know, trickles, trickling down even to the most liberal sphere. Yeah, I mean, especially that type of language describing, you know, describing as a terrorist, someone who's shooting at an Israeli soldier, like, at what point do you, you know, laugh, like, at what point are you just admitting that this is not a war, you know? It's like, okay, so then there's no war. If you're describing literally every Arab, you know, in opposition.

to this army as being a terrorist. The army that's protecting the sheep murdering, plundering, marauding terrorists of the settlers. And onto which, like, it's easy for us to forget. But international law around, like, conquest in war and subsequent occupations is explicitly predicated on the notion that these occupations are supposed to end. And they're supposed to end quickly.

And in the meantime, there are a certain proto- calls and ways that the occupier is supposed to treat the occupied on the way to de-occupying. This has been going on now for close to 60 years. Yeah, I really urge our listeners to read Noura Aricant's book, Justice for Some. How the international law, I mean, people, you know, sometimes tend to say Israel just ignores international law. This is not accurate. Israel is actually manipulating the international.

law to its benefit in the places, you know, in the cracks where it can. So it doesn't all together complete, but it actually used the international law as a tool to entrench the illegal occupation, ongoing occupation of the Palestinian territories. And when it can't manipulate it, it outright bribes and blackmailes. Norma Finkelstein's upcoming book is called Gaza's Gravediggers, an inquest into or an inquiry into corruption in high places, you know, talking about these judges like Sabutendi and others who just counter to everything that's written in the law, always rule in favor of Israel. And they have so many mechanisms of ensuring that they can continue to do what they do,

which, again, brings up the question of what's it going to take to get to a place where the Israeli public has no option but to look themselves in a way. a very unflattering mirror. And what I hear you saying is that boycotting is not an act of hate or aggression. It's actually an act of compassion. No, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, really, I think it's an act of patriotism to support the BDS movement as Israelis right now.

I think, you know, if I have to force myself to be a little bit optimistic, I would say that the fact that all the masks have, I mean, look at Israel, look at what's going on in Israel today. It's very, yeah, no, there is, everything is collapsing from within. Somehow there is still an external structure that sort of, not completely, but sort of holding it together, but from within, everything is completely rotten and everything is completely falling apart. So if not for the sake of morality or for the sake of justice or whatever, just for the sake of what it is that you want to leave your grandchildren, maybe it will, you know, bring Israelis to live this project of supremacy, which is really not just genocidal, but also suicidal in favor of something else. And subjectively, for you, what's it like to be there right now?

I mean, you've been there much of your life, you know, your society was always not-sifying, if not completely not-safied. You know, Yaheshabu-Libowitz called it a Judeo-Nazi society a long time ago. But I imagine, and one of your recent pieces also talks about how everything's changed in the past two years. Everything's become itself, but much more so, in a sense. Yeah. What's it like for you walking around and existing in a society like this, knowing what you know and seeing what you see? It's a, I really find difficult to find the words. I mean, you know, being a radical left activist, you know, also what is considered to be radical in Israel is just, you know, campaigning for justice, the inequality.

This is a radical notion. Whoa there. Whoa. Yeah, exactly. Oh, whoa. We're going to get dinged for extremists hate speech. Exactly. We've got a strike on YouTube.

Oh, no. You know, I'm an activist with the Ballad, which is a democratic Palestinian party. And they call for a state for all its citizens. I mean, this is the basic for any liberal democracy. This is not something, but in Israel, this is a radical notion. So being like in a radical left, there was always a sense of any, alienation from the Israeli society, but still

I felt obligated, I felt very much apart, you know, I got, it made me very mad, but as a part of this society, I felt obligated to be engaged in this conversation. I'm, in the past two years,

it's not alienation, it's just fear. I mean, I'm terrified by this society. I stand in the balcony and I smoke and I look at the people and I say every one of them is supporting genocide. Every one of them is either participating, you know, we were in the military in those two years or their sons or their brothers or their,

you know, it's my neighbor from the apartment downstairs, and it's the grocery store guy that is sitting there with the universe. It's everywhere. It's everywhere. So, and also it penetrates the most intimate, I lost, I caught ties with immediate family members because it was just so we couldn't, we couldn't handle this anymore. With friends, with close friends. It's a very lonely place to be at here right now. Yeah, I mean, I could only imagine just, it is, you know, our own personal experiences, or at least mine.

I can't speak for Daniel, but the amount of alienation that I experienced early on after October 7th was immense and caused me to be so mad I made a podcast, which is how you know I'm really mad. And, you know, but I, you know, have the privilege of being able to find a community of people, you know, not just physically, but also online. who also felt that sense of alienation. But I imagine, you know, for you and for, you know, the, you know, incredibly small cadre of, you know, quote, radical leftists in Israel, you know, you still constantly feel that sense of alienation, especially based on what exactly Israeli society is currently freaking out about. I mean, it just seems so divorced from reality that it's, if an anti-Semite said this to me three years ago, this is what Israeli society is going to be arguing over.

I, you know, I would have been like, well, there goes another crazy Nazi making up scenarios. And instead, it just seems to be your daily reality there. And they're doubling down on the crazy because, you know, it's, I think that, you know, the society has gotten to a point where it became so insane that looking in the mirror is no longer an option. So instead they're just doubling down on the crazy and on the hatred and on the, you know, genocidal mindset. So it's just getting worse and worse. There will be a shift at some point.

I am very grateful for my Palestinian friend. I should say that I find my sanity in those circles. And really, it's been like a lifesaver. My Palestinian friends have been a lifesaver. And my work environment, which I'm very, very fortunate to have it. Are your Palestinian friends mainly in 48 or in the West Bank or both? In 48. In 48, in 48, in 48, the situation in the West Bank, we can maybe, I don't know if we'll get to it, but it's, I mean, rightfully all eyes have been on Gaza for the past two years, but while all eyes were on Gaza, all hell broke loose in the West Bank, including the shooting of, for me, you know, it was the shooting of a brilliant, brave, amazing,

Amazing activist out there, Adeline. On camera. On 20 different cameras. He was murdered in front of 20 different cameras that shot it. He was released the next day. 20 men from the village were taken into custody. And in the past week or so, thanks to the brave work of a friend of the podcast, Jasper Nathaniel, some of the craziness of.

of settler violence has made a slight dent in Western media. You know, his video of the attack on this defenseless woman, the ambush of him and his Palestinian colleagues during the Olive Harvest. The Olive Harvest is always a pretty good time to capture some egregious, inarguable evidence that we're dealing with terrorists here. Matt, do we have that tweet from Chen Mazig, who's duly chastened by, or at least alarmed by the PR disaster that is this wave of acts. Yes. So, I mean, the fact that that's how you know something is broken into, at least

Western media, is when Henme Zieg, who is the face of Israel and Israeli compassion for the West, has to come out. He writes articles for the Hollywood reporter, places like that, gently explaining to people how, as a queer, brown, Israeli Jew, he laments the anti-Semitism on the left and in Hollywood and all this. Right. His whole thing is, like, being Deborah Messing's best friend. She was on a sitcom in the 90s, doesn't matter. And so, yeah. I know who she is.

Oh, you know, you know what? I'm old enough to know who she is. I'm sorry. I don't know. That's fine. So Deborah Messing's best friend and friend of the pot, Henma's... Triumph of the will and grace.

Triumph of the will and grace. If you will and grace, it is no... It is no dream. Okay. Hen had this to say. Yesterday, extremist Israelis in the West Bank slaughtered sheep on a Palestinian farm. Today, more extremists assaulted Palestinian olive harvesters, forcing them to leave the area and scatter the olives they had picked. What were Israeli extremists doing in the West Bank?

What a weird place for them to be. That's so strange. It's not as if they live there, put there, by the labor government in the 70s and every government since. And are protected by the... IDF, no, no, of which, of course, Hen is a part of, was a part of, and arguably is still a part of. I know it's hard to hear. I know when I report these attacks, those dedicated to misunderstanding Israelis as a whole, we'll use it as ammo. That's us.

This podcast is dedicated to misunderstanding Israelis as a whole. That's why I get up in the morning. Yeah, we get up. We look for that ammunition by clicking West Bank on. on Twitter and just seeing it for ourselves. We cannot ignore this violent sect in our society. The IDF? I'm sorry, but it's like I love the, even if it's a minority.

If these Israeli settlers were not protected directly by the IDF, if, in fact, Jasper Nathaniel's, you know, video shows evidence of the fact that the IDF led him and other reporters and Palestinians into an ambush. So, you know, we cannot ignore this violent sect in our society, even if it's a minority. If we turn a blind eye to these attacks,

we let hate win. What if it's a majority, then... Oh, my God. If it's a majority, it's okay. There's one thing we've learned. That's democracy. That's Israeli democracy. If the majority of Israeli Jews are genocidal, that's a triumph of participatory.

politics. Well, then it's okay. Then it's not bad. Yeah. Do you know what's a good day in the olive harvest season looks like in the West Bank? My daughter, you know, there are activists going to protect as a protective presence and helping Palestinians. So she goes every day. Do you know what a good day looks like? You know, so in a bad day, the settlers would come and some would live with broken limbs and it actually happens almost on daily basis. But if you have a good day, then you get to harvest the privately owned land of the Palestinians for maybe two or three hours before the soldiers come and they show you an order that say this is a closed military zone and kick you all out.

This is a good day when they just come and drive you away after two or three hours. This is the classic Zionist relationship to the land and agriculture making the desert boom. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And importing unfit trees from Europe, which is really so stupid. No fire hazard there, am I right? Yeah. For so many years, the Zionism. was such took such pride in in drying out the hula lake you know this is like one of the huge

achievements it turned it turns out that this is a huge uh catastrophe environmental catastrophe that it was not meant to be dried out and it actually caused a huge environmental catastrophe but they you know i love that i did not know that but yes it you know, big in the sort of Zionist, Israeli origin story is the idea of the literal draining of swamps, you know, this was all, you know, bogs and, you know, unfit for harvesting. And the draining of them was a huge part of the, like, sort of, you know, origin story, Hasbara. I did not know that, that it also caused, you know, a monumental, environmental damage to the ecosystem. Well, you know, God, God, God as a reputation is infallible, but then you look at swamps.

It was just a mistake. Yeah, exactly. And the superior race knows what to do with God's mistakes. Looking up to the guy, God, you forgot to clear the swamp, idiot. It's okay. We'll clean it up. We'll drain it for you. It's all right.

And those silly Palestinians for hundreds of years never thought to drain out those swamps. So maybe they were meant to. to be there. Yes. So much for indigenous wisdom. But speaking of Zionist founding principles, plural, Chen is very concerned about that, and we get to that at the end of his tweet.

Which I highlighted out of incredulity, I couldn't believe I was reading this. Yes. Part of ending this terror is raising awareness and standing up for Israel's founding values of peace, freedom, and justice for all peoples. As enshrined in Israel's constitution. Oops, there is none.

No more impunity. I love the idea of just inventing founding principles by, I don't know, cribbing Superman comics. It's just like, you know. Yeah, he's probably thinking about a different state that actually has a constitution. It's not Israel anyhow. Yeah, I'm not sure which constitution he read recently, but it definitely is not Israel's. But, yeah, I mean, it's always amazing to see, like, where Hasbaris draw the line? Mm-hmm.

Like, at what level of shame and opprobrium, they will start to speak up. And it's always because it's a bad look, not because it's a bad thing. It's always because, oh, no, Americans or the West is talking about it. That's always it. They draw the line at, oh, this is bad PR. And the first, yeah, the first thing they said when the war was over is, oh, shit, now they are going to have to allow journalists into Gaza, and this is going to be very, very bad for Israeli Hasbara.

That was the first thing that they were concerned with. Did you see the clip on Israeli news of two, I don't know if they were comedians, but they're journalists who consider themselves funny, talking to each other and saying, with these hostages being released, it's a PR, it's a Hasbara disaster for us. One of them looks like John Hamm.

They're in such great shape. They look great. Don't they realize they need to look more beat up and scrawny in order to help, with our Hasbara efforts, and they were being kind of knowing and wink-wink about it, but they're 100% serious, too. Like, that's the thing that gets me about Israeli humor and irony. It's like they're laughing at themselves, but not feeling the moral consequence of what

they're saying. It's like, ha, ha, aren't we depraved? Right. Yeah. No. Yeah. It's, you know, it's not irony or sarcasm if it's not actually backed up by the worldview that it is hinting at.

If either of us said it, the worldview, I think, would be very clear based on our own jokes and the way we talk about it. But it's like, if you are not out there, you know, actively protesting this genocide, if you have not been speaking up about it for two years, then you're not being ironic. You're literally just mad. You're being nihilistic. You're being nihilistic is what you're being, yes. With a self-deprecating veneer. But yeah, I'm sorry, go ahead. No, no. I just, the recent, the entire Slete Manifere was another example of, you know, the only thing that shook up the Israeli society. And of course, the Israeli government was, oh, this is going to make us look very, very bad.

That's right. Well, that's a perfect segue. That's right, because we will be talking about that. And yes. Should we take a break first, Matt? We should. But just to back up your point, you know, this is. of something that was published in February of this year, which is Netanyahu calls Stey-Temann leak. Biggest Hasbara disaster in Israeli history. And what better podcast to talk about a Hasbara disaster than Bad Hasbara.

So please everyone stick around because we will be right back. And we're back. World's Most Moral Podcasts here with Orly Noi. How you doing? Things good. Thank you for staying up late with us tonight. Yes, thank you. It's a pleasure.

Thank you. Well, unfortunately, you know, this next story is the stuff that nightmares are made of. So apologies in advance. But, yeah, we're going to be talking about the sort of recent update to the Sté-Tay-Man story from last year. So just to recap for those who maybe don't remember, but State Taiman, which is a prison in the Negev, there was a video that came out, this was, I believe in July of last year, where a Palestinian detainee was hospitalized with broken ribs and a tear to his rectum. There's video of him being sexually assaulted by multiple soldiers, you know, within the prison. And it was specifically the Force 100 soldiers, which is, this is a unit within the IDF, I'm assuming. A military police reserve unit that guards terror suspects specifically.

It also employs them. Yes. Yes. and on Monday, November 3rd, the severity of the abuse was detailed very recently by Muhammad Shahada, who claims that the victim is still withholding his name, so it's still off the record. He will not say his name until he chooses to be on the record, but apparently just some details of this abuse.

The IDF soldiers raped him so violently. this is a quote from Mahamachad's Twitter that they raped him so violently until they exploded his intestines and ruptured his rectum. He underwent 20 surgical operations, including colostomy and

Eurostomy, and is still suffering medical complications to this day. Israel released him three weeks ago without him ever being charged or tried. They likely released him so he wouldn't be able to testify a court against his rapists who are still at large. There's a noticeable, I mean, many people have noticed this, an obsession, a fixation in the world of Hasbara and Israeli self-justification with sexual depravity alleged on the part

of Palestinians. October 7th being the most epic case of a whole torture, pornography liturgy being created about all of these supposed acts committed, not just by individuals, but as a systemic, west-pepanized strategy of war. Hasbarists love to come at people like me and Matt and saying, imagine your sister or mother with her pelvis crushed. I mean, the most baroque details of sexual violation. How far back does... I mean, I know the answer to this because the documentary Tantura documents it,

and there were mass rapes during, but during the Nakabah, what can you say about this psychosexual, real perversion, actually, and projection that happens in Israeli society? I think that the question of, you know, masculinity has been always a really essential part of the self-desionist self-notion. And in some really twisted, sick way, this is a play on the issue of masculinity, to prove your own and to deprive your victim's masculinity

by those horrific acts of rape and sexual violence. You know, there are so many things that can be said, said psychologically about this need to humiliate, to sexually humiliate, but this is the Palestinian victims, but this is not, it's not something new. It's not new at all, actually. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's obviously that has been the, I mean, the big Hasbara talking point regarding sexual assault of any kind for the last two years has been the, you know, opposed sexual assault in mass and systemically of Israelis done by the Palestinians on October 7th. And yet this story has always been sort of a thumb in the eye of the people who have

used the accusation of rape as a weapon of war because of the fact that it's, you know, they see it as maybe not in keeping with the narrative that they've been pushing. It's also nothing new, I guess, in the history of colonialism. Of course not. One feature of every colonial and settler colonial system is to... Present the indigenous population. Yeah, as savage, as morally, and completely project all of their own repressed, Yes.

Rageful vulnerability hating psychological qualities onto the other. Right. And this has been an incredible case where now you have, when was it? It was shortly after the Sté Temant story broke, one of the chief perpetrators, or suspects, I guess, but almost admitted that he did it, appeared on Israeli television as like the masked singer. Like, something like that, right? Where he comes on and he's wearing a hood and he takes it off and he gets big applause. Yeah. He's a celebrity.

Also, yesterday they held a press conference, you know, with their massive. Yeah, outside the Supreme Court. And they have the sympathy of, you know, all in all, they have the sympathy of the general population in Israel. Which is totally terrifying. Here is this presser that they held with the Force 100 soldiers. They fight for their justice, not on the battlefield, but in the courtrooms. Dozens of fighters who need the support of the government, the support of the system, because they defended the home and only thanks to them.

We are all here today. But instead of a hug, we received accusations. Instead of thanks, we received silent. Pause. Instead of a hug. Yeah. As Jay-Z said, in the song Heart of the Seas. city.

Sensitive thugs. You all need hugs. Yeah. You know, what is that symbol they're wearing on their shirts there early? Is that like, looks like the kach party or something? It's not a kach. I cannot see it from here, but it says the 100 force with some sort of, is it a fist? Yeah, maybe I don't.

Jesus. I hope it's not a fist. Yeah, I mean, it would definitely be a bad look, yeah. But you know, don't underestimate their claim that, you know, we fought for the country and now you're abandoning us. This works magic on the Israeli public. That was the claim by El Or Zaria, who executed a dying Palestinian on the ground. And that was his, that was the claim of the person who executed mentally, challenged Palestinian in East Jerusalem

and he got away with it so that's a very strong like it's it works and why do you suppose it works? Is it as simple as we could be your sons we could be your brothers because the entire country is involved they are they are and the thing is that

they say well you want you want this war to be won this is a dirty war we are doing the dirty job then let us do it don't question us you want me in that prison exactly you need me with that coat hanger it's jack nicholson yeah and a few good men and and think about what the german when the german chancellor says that israel is doing the the the dirty work for all of us yes this is what he's talking about what is the dirty work so everybody you understand that there is a dirty work to be done. So these people

now come and say, okay, so we are doing the dirty work. Don't tell us how to do it. Yeah, I mean, implicit in that sort of, you know, Western you know, Western chauvinism, you know, whether it's like either the German Chancellor

or just some, you know, Chud in America who's talking about like Israel's actually, you know, they're doing what needs to get done over there. They're implying what needs to get done is the, I mean, total decimation of not just, you know, Palestinians, but of the Arab hordes out there, the Islamic hordes who need to be destroyed. They always say Israel is doing what the West should be doing whenever they talk about Iran, for example. I mean, what they're

saying is very clear, if you read between the lines, the wonderful thing about Israeli society and especially people like these Force 100 officers or soldiers, you don't have to read between the lines. They'll just say out loud the things that they're doing. Read the lines. Yes, they just read the lines. You didn't let us respond. You didn't let us explain.

You put us on trial in front of the... You heard that word in there? Yeah, yeah, yeah. As beer, we know that one. Cameras, as if you had already decided to implement it. But know this. We will not be silent. We will continue to fight.

for justice for ourselves, for our friends, for our families, for everyone who stood up and defended the home. We did not ask for mercy, we did not ask for forgiveness, only one thing, justice. You may have tried to break us, but you forgot one thing. We are a force of a hundred. It's we are force 100, I assume is what he says. This is AI translation. We stand here in front of everyone and remind that behind every victory stand real fighters. We also want to thank our lawyer who has supported us from the very first minute until the end. We ask for forgiveness. How much you want to bet he's Jewish, huh? I love, we also want to thank our lawyer who we've paid to be behind us. People from the children who are going

through what they should not have to endure, but we will win because there is only one truth. So, I mean, you know, this is from an outside perspective. I think anyone in the West who's looking at this, and this video, of course, is not meant for anyone in the United States. It's not, I doubt it will get any airtime in, you know, on CNN or whatnot. But I think, you know, to the rest of us, we look at this and we go, like, this is some pretty like theatrical

psychopath shit seeing a group of masked people essentially defending the idea of what was done to this Palestinian prisoner at State Teman as being like

you know necessary but also like somehow a form of justice and that you know justice must be done for these poor soldiers who are being, you know, wrongfully accused or whatnot. Like, when we see a group of, like, masked dudes in front of the camera, it looks crazy. They couldn't have chosen, like, if I was watching that with no sound, and I hadn't noticed

yet that there was a Orthodox Jewish-looking guy with Paias. I'm like, oh, black balaclavas, that's the stereotype of a Hamas fighter. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Oh, I mean, for me, the association is, is. of KKK group after torturing a black person and then coming and having, they are upset because the torching of another human being is being questioned now

and they have their justice and they speak, you know, they speak about justice and they have their truth and they use actually those words, truth and justice and they believe in it. But in a system of supremacy, a genocidal system of supremacy, you do have a parallel set of justice and of truth. So when they speak, they do mean it. They're genuine about it. That's the thing. This system provides them with an alternative justice and an alternative truth. So there's a broken promise.

There's a sense of betrayal. Exactly. Everything you raised us to believe. Exactly. Right. We're just doing what you taught us. Exactly. That's exactly it. And, you know, there is a person, I don't know if you heard of him.

His name is Asa Kashir. He's a professor in a university here. And this guy is in charge of writing the ethical code for the IDF. Can you imagine? And a few years back, he changed his own ethical code to say that now the lives of the Israeli soldiers are prior to the lives of Palestinian civilians. This is something against, you know, not just basic common sense, but against all international law and whatever.

But they have their parallel alternative moral codes and truth and justice. And this guy is not a lunatic. He's a professor. He's a professor at the university. But that's the alternative. This is really... It's wild to see. And, you know, it explains a lot of what we saw subsequent to the video leaking of the Palestinian prisoner being sexually assaulted,

which we saw riots and protests in front of the actual facility with not just civilians going out calling for, you know, justice for those who have been arrested for this crime. And, of course, there were 10 suspects, and I believe five soldiers were indicted in February of this year of the abuse. There were MKs, too. There was, yes, there was members of the Knesset who were there arguing for, you know, justice for the actual accused perpetrators. You'd assume that justice would be the charging of the people who did the crime and the subsequent trial that would prove whether or not beyond a reasonable doubt they did it. Instead, they're saying just the mere act of accusation and arrest of these people is, I mean, essentially they're saying they should have the right to rape Palestinian prisoners. That's what they say. And to bring us up to the present day, it's not just the accusation and prosecution, it's even exposing it that is the act of treason.

So we have the case of this woman who, Matt, do you want to set up the fact of this? Because it's been a whole debacle and intrigue. I mean, this incident could be its own, you know, mini-series. Yeah. So this happened on the 31st of October. Major General Yafat Tomer Yaru Yaru Shalmi admits that she leaked the abuse footage and resigned. Quote, I approve the leaking of evidence to the media in an attempt to confront the false propaganda against the law enforcement officials in the military. I take full responsibility for all of the evidence that was sent out to the media by this unit.

Based on this responsibility, I've also decided to conclude my role as M.A. which is, I guess, a major attorney general. So, wait a minute. She leaked it to try and help the soldiers? Yes. What's her logic? No, no, no, no. She leaked it as far as I can tell them.

Correct me if I'm wrong orally. But she leaked it because the arrests were coming down for these soldiers and people were screaming bloody murder at the arrest of our dear precious boys. Got it. And leaked the footage to show people look what they did. Right. Is that right or do I have that wrong? No, it's absolutely right.

The question is, I mean, the question that many ask is why in the first place did she want to investigate this? Why not bury it like she buried so many other tens of thousands of cases? You know, in Bacela, we published more than over a year ago a very thorough report called Welcome to Hell about the situation of Palestinian prisoners after October 7th. in the Israeli detention facilities, it's torture camps, all of them, all of them. So why did she single out this one case that she, in order to justify the investigation, she had to leak this video to justify her decision to even open an investigation? She didn't do it in horrible, horrible crimes in an ongoing genocide for two years. So why this one?

Do you have any answer to that? Why? Yes, I do. It's the passover question. Why is this mass rape different than all other mass rapes? So I think several, I have several assumptions, let's call it. First, I think that this really was one of the more horrifying things that we know of. And maybe, you know, she, the human in her was shook in a way that was not shaken by other cases

and she had discovered her red lines somewhere. But I think a more probable assumption would be this entire facade of judicial entities, both the military and the civilian in Israel, can only keep the international courts away as long as they prove that they can handle their own, that they actually do the job themselves. So once in a while, in order to look efficient enough to be able to keep the international investigations away from the idea of soldiers,

she has to show that she is doing something. Plausible reliability. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Because otherwise, it would be easier to claim that, okay, you're just not functioning. You're not doing what you're. So the international forces need to come in.

This was actually a shield, a protective shield for the crimes. to protect the idea of soldiers from being persecuted in the international courts for the crimes that they committed. So she sort of sacrificed this one in order to protect so, so many others. A humane shield, so to speak. Yes, but Israel already became so crazy that even that one lip service to the so-called rule of justice is not possible. anymore. Yeah, she's become the Israeli Edward Snowden. Right.

Yeah. In the public's eyes. I mean, the outrage has been, Baitar is calling for the death penalty for her. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, it is, I've never seen such outrage for something, especially since, like, you know, as you're talking about it, there, this is not the first case of this being talked about. In fact, there was a similar outrage last year from a picture of a prisoner at Staitaemon who is identified. His name was Ibrahim Selem, and he actually went on to describe the abuse that he received while he was there. And, of course, it is the same story as the one with the nameless victim that people are currently denying in droves. Not only are they saying, you know, that it's wrong to leak the video, but they're denying that it even happened. And they say that the video is, you know, it's doctored.

It didn't happen, and if it had, it would have been correct. Exactly. And so here is just some of his own words. For us prisoners, that punishment was nothing. There's sexual punishments, greater punishments, greater beatings. Nothing was more humiliating than when they made me take my clothes off. or when they inserted this object into my butt, or when a young female soldier kept touching my penis, there's even more and more.

So, I mean, you know, this is very similar to the abuse that is being alleged in this video that everyone is now denying. It's crazy to me to see the amount of vitriol for the release of this video. And I think it's because they've been able to so far, including this AG, by the way, deny this, not just to, you know, the outside world, but internally to themselves. You know, the fact is that this is probably not the first time that, you know, Tomer Yerushalmi has heard abuse allegations. But it's the first time that she had incontrovertible proof of it that has been videotaped. Knowing the video existed was probably reason enough to leak it. And so, you know, she, I think, you know, did it for the reasons of going, well, at least I can get on the right side of this in some way.

And in some way kind of like, I don't know, reaffirm this belief that I do something, that I serve a function, that this is not a dictatorship of the Likud Party. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sorry, go ahead. No, totally. And also, you know, it's, this is another, she wants, then she can say, well, IDF is in fact the most moral army in the world, as would say, Yeir Golan, the head of, you know, the Zionist left party. If you ask today, Yeir Golan, he would tell you that without blinking,

without hesitation. Yes, the Israeli army is, in fact, the most more. And look, we prosecute the perpetrators. We do it. It's a play. And everybody plays its own role in it. Yeah. And just seeing like...

Go ahead. Yeah, here's Beatar, yeah. Here's Beatar saying, we demanded need the death penalty, traitor. Yafat, Tomar, Yerushalmi, betrayed the IDF and the nation during wartime. as military advocate general, oh, advocate general, excuse me, she leaked a classified video that falsely portrayed Israeli soldiers as abusers, fueling global anti-Semitism, damaging Israel's image,

and undermining trust within the army itself. She oversaw her own, quote, investigation, covered up the leak, and misled the courts, the Knesset, and the public. She must face full criminal accountability, no immunity, no cover-ups. I mean, I kind of agree with them, as I almost always do, just in the complete opposite direction. She and everyone involved in the Army, whether they put on a liberal face or not should face full criminal accountability. But then the story took kind of a crazy made-for-TV turn. Didn't she disappear for 24 hours?

It was so crazy. Can you tell us what happened? So she disappeared. And only, so apparently she had disappeared only already from the early morning hours, but only in the evening they started to, you know, speak about it in the news. And the next thing we know that her car was found by the cliffs near the sea deserted with a suicide letter in the car. And she's nowhere to be found. And like the entire, like what? she committed suicide and it was like such a but then she was found the thing that was not found

was her telephone which now many people say that the entire thing uh thing was played in order for her to be able to get rid of her phone but just before i came on this podcast the the the latest thing i saw was that a phone was actually discovered and it still wasn't clear if it's hers or not. But the entire thing went like it

it went into the spheres of like I don't know it's it's like tabloids that's what it went into it went into the field like into sort of like tabloid murder mystery territory where

suddenly we're you know talking about a fake suicide note. It's just It's like a poorly written, you know, spy movie. And it makes my, it makes my head, yeah, it's like, you know, Yonatan La Caree or something like that. And, sorry, that was a little labor, but my mind goes to, okay, was she incentivized, was she blackmailed into leaking it and then disappearing? Like, was this all staged? Is there someone above who's pulling the strings? Like, because it is also, yeah, Baroque.

involved and sensationalistic. No, it's, the entire thing really is. So, I mean, I would, you know, on another notion, nothing is too crazy to be, to be happening in Israel right now, because really anything can happen here. Everything is so unbelievably crazy. But this is really like a third grade, like...

It's a shitty Christian novel. Really, really. I don't say, and now she's arrested, by the way. Now she's arrested. She's in custody. Can you imagine this person was the chief prosecutor for the army? And now she's, she, like she attempted the suicide, but maybe she didn't. Maybe it was fake.

And now she's in custody. Yeah. I mean, it all seems to be going in the same direction that, you know, Beatar is at least hoping for, which is for her to face full criminal prosecution for the crime of leaking this video and you know it is it is an interesting internal israeli story because to the rest of the world the story is not the leaker the story is what was leaked and what it was you know proven by this video which was that you know these prisoners were raping

Palestinian prisoners and it's funny seeing the the defenses of the video I have one from

this one this one as Boris I follow whose name is Adin and he wrote explain it to me

like I'm five how exactly they quote rape without taking their pants off first of all I would never

explain that to a five-year-old to me that's the entire I was like what a strange use of explain it like I'm five why do you need

explain how to justify rape like I'm a five year old I'm sorry but this is the most Israeli tweet of all time that is wild to me but like the way in which the story has been talked about you know it's like here's

you know hellel fold who hasn't gotten enough exposure on this podcast. He really hasn't, but he's a true piece of work. Anyone who is now doubling down on that video and focusing on those innocent soldiers and not on the traitor and her accomplices is dangerous and treasonous themselves. Colonel Jessup, did you order the anal rape of that Palestinian prisoner? You're goddamn right, I did. Yeah. Exactly. And of course, when there was that brief moment in which everyone was like, did she kill herself?

Halelfold, kind of went on a little bit of damage control. Okay, waiting to hear if they find Israel's chief military legal officer, major general Eufat, Tomari, or Shalmi. But it's looking more and more like suicide. Terrible. And yes, I did call her traitor yesterday.

And yes, if she did take her life, it's a terrible tragedy. Terrible. I wanted them to put her against the wall and shoot her. Yeah. She's rubbed us of the taste of revenge. Yeah. I pray she was okay, but I'm very skeptical. And just, sorry, one more of Hillel Fold.

This has nothing to do with a story, but this is him talking about a fishing attempt. He got an email from Meta Careers that said, I hope this message find you well. We came across your impressive background in marketing analytics and data-driven strategy, and we believe it'd be a great fit for our marketing science partner role based in Israel.

And he wrote, wow, this was a different level of fishing attempt, best I've ever seen. I fell for it. Of course, now that, you know, Royal, Ohioan confirmed for me that it's fake, I changed my passwords. They're getting really good. I just really love him posting about his fishing attempt.

Wow, this email really did sound like the, it really did sound like a Nigerian prince. Right. He even included a picture. Yeah, he showed me the money he was going to send me. He just needed $1,000 first. Anyways. He included a,

a picture of a map of Nigeria. Anyone who posts that, you know, that they were fished and then is also trying to be like the arbiter of what's true and what's not. Like, you know, that video is fake. It's like, bro, you gave your password to. Maybe you shouldn't be the one saying what's fake and what isn't. I immediately changed my password from password to password one. Oh, password one, exclamation point.

But yeah, I mean, you know, this story seems to be, at least in Israel, seems to be so much focused on the leak that it's, I'd wonder, and maybe Orly you can, you know, shed some light on this. But how is the regular person in Israel looking at this case? Yeah, so no, if I finished, completed your question in my mind, so the answer is no, and I'll tell you why. I think that in a sense, you wanted to know if an ordinary normal Israeli would, you know, maybe on the essence. Right. Are they focusing on the substance of the fact that this is something that happened that is endemic in the IDF? Or are they focusing on the idea of the, you know, the deep state being, trying to, you know, set this all up for the sake of, I don't know, doing judicial reform or whatever? Exactly. I think that once the war was over and all the kidnapped returned,

so the Israeli society sort of closed that chapter and went to October 6th, which is again examining everything to the frame of the judicial coup or the reforms or whatnot, and the camps divided accordingly. So one camp would say this is another example of the corrupted deep state that is controlling the whatnot and it's part of the judicial elite that is, you know, against the will of the people and against the people. And the other camp would say this is another example of the fascist, the undemocratic, you know, trying to undermine the Israeli amazing democracy.

and, you know, God forbid, our strong, solid democracy would be shaken by those. So we went back to the same terminology, same conception of reality divided between those two camps, with the Palestinians, of course, being completely left out of the story. They are non-relevant as far as the Israelis from both camps are concerned. the Palestinians themselves, or these Palestinians victim, is completely irrelevant now to the story. The story is now between the two Jewish Israeli camps. It's crazy. It's crazy to me. I mean, especially, you know, some new information just came to light.

DropSight just reported that the IDF order reveals Palestinian gang raped by soldiers at Staitamon was a civilian. not a, quote, Nakhba fighter. And so, you know, it's the entire... Nakhba is Israeli, that's Hebrew for terrorist, right? It's not Hebrew. It's actually the Arabic word. Nohba is a professional. So the Nukba are the Hamas professionals

who were trained to do the attack on October 7th. Of course, I mean, you could have assumed that just by the fact that he was released. and if they could have proven that he was a nochba, they would have used that much more fiercely in their propaganda. So maybe they're just used to, they're like, oh, I don't know how to kill one that's right in front of me. Can you put them back in Gaza so we could drone strike him?

Yeah. It's the only way they know how to do more. Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, you know, it's like the fact that the story is not that, you know, even amongst the liberals, to me, it's just so crazy. And truly, to bring things full circle, because we're going to wrap up here, every single time there's a scandal like this and the light, some light is shed for the world on the true nature of Israeli society.

And Israeli society finds a way to clang the door shut and stay inside of this intra-Jewish supremacist debate. there it's just another like I say they're clanging the door of their own cell and and the suicidality of that society takes one more step towards you know every time there isn't an opportunity to learn from and to look at oneself the way the world sees you uh you're you're locking yourself further in your narcissist prison so I don't even know what to wish you living there but we wish you a tremendous debt of gratitude and thanks for coming on our podcast and shedding so much light sanity and illumination on what's going on there. There's way too few people like you.

Thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure. Thank you. Yeah. Well, thank you for coming on. We hope to have you back soon. And where can people find you and find your work? I'm an old timer, so mostly on Facebook, a little bit on... Oh, my work is on 972, sometimes Middle East Eye, and if you read Hebrew, then always on local call. Yeah, maybe we'll put a link to the Orly Noy archive at 972. There's a healthy crop of articles there. So everyone, please check out her work.

Really, you do brilliant work, and thank you so much for coming on this. show thank you very much of course uh patreon.com slash bad as barra badasbara badasbara at gmail.com for all your questions comments and concerns all right everyone that's the show thanks again so much for listening and until next time from the river to the sea how do you say a country full of rape apologists in farcee oh that's great jumping jacks was us push-ups was us push-ups will Us. Godmaga us. All karate us.

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