Bad Hasbara - The World's Most Moral Podcast - 212: Je Suis Feucht, with Blowback Podcast

Episode Date: June 23, 2026

Matt and Daniel are joined by Noah Kulwin and Brendan James of the Blowback podcast to discuss the US-Israel relationship with regard to their new miniseries “No Daylight,” in addition to Iran, Trump, Netanyahu, Adam Louis-Klein, Itamar Ben-Gvir, Jesse Brown, Naftali Bennett, and of course Sean Feucht.Please donate to Children in Conflict: https://www.childreninconflict.org/Blowback Pod: https://blowback.show/Subscribe to the Patreon https://www.patreon.com/badhasbaraBad Hasbara Merch: https://estoymerchandise.com/collections/bad-hasbara-podcastWhat’s The Spin playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/50JoIqCvlxL3QSNj2BsdURWhat’s The Spin Album List: https://bit.ly/whatsthespinlistSkad Skasbarska playlist: http://bit.ly/skadskasbarskaSubscribe/listen to Bad Hasbara wherever you get your podcasts.Spotify https://spoti.fi/3HgpxDmApple Podcasts https://apple.co/4kizajtSubstack https://substack.com/@badhasbaraSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/bad-hasbara/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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Microchips is us. iPhone cameras us. Taco salads us. Poh-da-ha-Bahmos us. Olive Garden us. White foster us. Zabra Hamas. Hasbaras us.

Hello everyone. And welcome to Bad Hasbara. Dah, World's Most Moral podcast. Oh, that's right. It's me. Matt Lieb, your most moral co-ebb. but your most moral co-co, I can't do Chicago. Your most moral co-host for this podcast.

Heard, chef. Heard. You do it. And I'm Daniel Matte, your other world's most moral podcaster, live from Chicago, Illinois. That's really good. Honestly, that is like a great, that's a great accent you got there.

I wish I could do it. We're doing voices, Adam. And it's not racist to do Chicago. Is it racist against Poles? I'm modeling it after the Italians on the bear. Okay, well, there we go. I guess everyone has that accent over there. The Poles.

I think the statute of limitations on Italian Americans feeling offended by other people. It's over. It's over. That's at this point, if you're trying to bring back anti-Italian defamation league stuff, get out of here.

Italian-American sensitivity. That's right. Stugats. Stugats. Yes, I'm here in the studio of my friend, Dr. Alexander Solomon, host of the reimagining love podcast, which I appeared on some years ago before I ever knew you. And she was kind enough.

She's a fan of the show. Her son, Ryan is here. Shout out to Ryan. Also a fan of the show. Really appreciate them letting me use the studio on my travels. And it looks great. I'm really glad that you ended up, you know, for one of the days of your travel,

you ended up somewhere where there's a at-home podcast studio. That's awesome. With a better webcam than I have. Yeah, I know. If only I always look this good. Just move there, dude. Just move there. Yeah, exactly.

You only have to do is say, hey, doctor, why don't you reimagine your house with me in it? Say that to her. Shout out to producer Adam Levin. I don't want to ask her husband how he feels about that. You'll be fine. They'll reimagine their shit. And shout out to producer Adam Levin. And shout out also to editor Brent.

I just want to give him a quick shout out because he's been making clips and social media videos and stuff. And he's really killing it. And I don't know. I just, it's just, it's nice to have so many, so many people. Yeah. In the bad has bar reverse. You know what I mean? Like in our corner.

It takes a village to make fun of a pillage. That's right. It takes a village and it takes a robust Patreon. subscriber base, which is why you should go to patreon.com slash badass barra. And subscribe right now. You get a bonus episode every fucking week.

And not only that, but you also get access to the Discord and all of our other exclusive episodes. You can also join for exclusive badass barra episodes on YouTube. You become a member and on substack. You can become a member

there too. Isn't it cool when the avenues to exclusivity are non-exclusive? I love that. See, we're poly. We're really inclusive about our exclusivity. We're reimagining member subscriptions. So that's how we're doing it. You know, we've got sort of a poly-piggy thing where if you want to, if you want to be a, you know, a piggy on YouTube memberships, you can do that.

If you want to do it on substack, you can do that too. We're open and we hope you're open to. You can have your hooves in a number of different. That's right. Exactly. Today's episode is brought to you by children in conflict. Children in Conflict has been working in occupied Palestinian territory since 2006 and is currently supporting children in Israeli detention, providing case management, child protection, mental health, and psychosocial support. If you have any money and you're like, I'd like to do something better with it than giving it to podcast, consider going to Children in Conflict.org. and donating today. I think it's a good idea. I think it's a nice thing to do with money that isn't just getting more slop.

Not that we don't love slop, folks. We love slop, and I appreciate how much you love slop. But it's also good to do nice things with money. So do that now, please. Daniel, I know you're on the road, but just because you're on the road, doesn't mean you ain't spinning, you know? So tell me what's the spin?

Well, you're dang right. After I pulled into Chicago yesterday in a rainstorm after driving the most boring stretch of American Highway, which is the Ohio, Indiana, I-80, I-90 corridor. I can't even imagine. I can't even imagine. Absolutely. It's just mind-numbing.

Just dog shit. The highlight is driving by South Bend and being like, oh, Mayor Pete. Remember him? Yeah, remember Mayor Pete? He's still around. Yeah. you know, I always much prefer going up north through Michigan to the Upper Peninsula, but I don't have time this time because I'm trying to get, I'm trying to get out west for an event.

So the first thing I did when I arrived was to regulate myself, not by taking a few deep breaths, not by doing a yoga pose, not by consulting the spiritual masters, but rather by going to Miyagi records in the south side of Chicago, not so far from the new monstrosity called the Obama Presidential Center, which I didn't see, and I'm happy I didn't see it, because that thing looks ugly. Is it look bad? I haven't seen it yet. Maybe it's just the fact that he posed with Bush and Biden and fucking Clinton.

Give me some interpresidential solidarity. That's what I say. It's like a support group. Support group. People who have killed kids in the Middle East. Yeah. And who then handed their country over to a raving madman. So Miyagi Records has a great farm.

song soul jazz collection and some hip hop and I just got a few records. I don't know much about any of them, although I do know some of the artists. This is Hubert Laws, who's a floutist, a jazz flute player. I love a good flautist. The album Laws Cause. I also, I often just pick up records sometimes when the covers are cool. That is a very cool cover. And I also like that. He does jazz flute. Miyagi Records puts the wax on your turntable. Yeah, well, I like that. And as does, he does, yes, flute. Miyagi Records puts the wax on your turntable. Yeah, well, I like that. And as does. Daniel son, I approve. Well, you are Daniel son. I am Daniel son. The wax is on. That's right. This is Brother Jack McDuff, who's a jazz blues

organist, I think, and this is his album Tough Duff. Tough Duff. It's cool. I love that. Not to be confused with Tough Muff, which is your favorite magazine subscription. I love a tough muff. I want it impossible to get through anyways. Maybe move on.

Speaking of bathroom humor, this is Dick Heimelman. Oh, wow. You know, I've heard of Dick Heimann. I'll tell you how you've heard of it. Okay. It's my dad. Are you a Beastie Boys fan?

I mean, a little bit. You know, probably not like you. In the song Root Down, which itself is a sample from Jimmy Smith, they say, I'm electric like Dig Heimann. Something, something catch the crew rhyming. It definitely wasn't from that. It was from my dad. And it could be because of, is it.

I assume he's a musician. He's an electronic musician. He's a moog, a moog organ player. So it's a cool 70s moog sound, yeah. He's a whole Moog. He's a whole Moog. Yeah. Also, it could just be that his name is Dick Heimann, and my dad heard that and was

like, there's a guy out there. His name's Dick Heimann. I mean, those are two names that are actually meant to come into contact. You know what I'm saying? A hundred percent, you know? I have a family member. Dr. Hyman Leibb is my great grandfather. Oh, wow.

Yeah. So his name was Hyman Love. Wasn't Hyman Roth the name of the character in Godfather, too? It was, yeah, yeah, yeah. But he wasn't a doctor. Moving over to the West Coast hip-hop side of things. Here we have Ice T's first album, Ryan Pays, which features the classic track Six in the Morning. Okay, yeah. One of the first gangstrap songs. Six in the morning, police knocking on my door were full. No, that's sorry. That's slightly stupid.

A shitty white boy reggae band. Yeah, which are who are channeling, let's say, ice tea there. The Horace Silver Quintet, you've got to take a little love. Mm. Do you? In the Dick or the Hyman. All right. Yeah, all right.

Horace Silver. We're doing great. Horace Silver is a great jazz player. I think he's Brazilian or Brazilian extraction, maybe his father. Horace is a cool ass name, so I'm cool with that. Chicago, big fans. fan of Horace Grant, former Chicago Bull. That's right.

See, that was a team where even though the role players were exciting and distinctive. I don't know how many people are going to be talking about the role players on these New York Knicks 30 years from now. It depends how many championships they win. I guess that's true. If they win a bunch of championships, then everyone will remember. No, then it's dynasty

time. It's true. That's right. And finally, I really enjoy this one. M.C. W.R. from NWA with his album that I didn't even know existed, Kiz my black as. All right. You can see the cover's a little degraded, but there he is.

Inviting you. Oh, that's not part of the cover. Oh, I thought that was part of the cover. No, it's literally just ripped. No, it's just ripped. It's just old. I like it. Yeah, he's the least famous member of NWA, but he's...

It's an excellent rapper. Yeah, he's a great rapper, and, you know, I feel like everyone else got their shine and then MC Wren just was like, and me, you know? It's kind of unfair. Yeah, I mean, I always thought MC Stimpy was overrated, personally.

Absolutely. Stupid ass. Second episode in a row with a Renan Stimpy reference. At some point, we're going to be made to account for the creator's pedophilia. We do not condone the pedophilia

of the guy who made Ren and Stimper. John Crifalusi? Yeah, some sort of, yeah, like a... That's a Hungarian name. Oh, is it? Damn, I was about to denigrate the Polish again. No, it's a Magyar thing. Yeah, fucking Magyars.

So that is what is spinning in the Chicago spin zone. Before we bring on our guests, Daniel, you shared something with me that I think we both wanted to share to the rest of the podcast. It's a tweet from our... It's a very sad story. It's a very gad sad story. It is a tweet from, you know, friend of the pod, excellent human being, gad sad. Yeah. Psychology understander.

Mm-hmm. You know. We should rename this podcast an episode where we call it just... Gad Hasbara. Gad Hasbara or bad with two A's. That's our next bumper. So before you put this up, I just want to talk about who he is. He's a Lebanese, Jewish, Canadian, something.

Maybe a professor of economics, I'm not sure. An absolute Zionist ghoul, sneering, mocking, like one of the most truly unpleasant. And he's one of these guys who comes up who coins like new phrases. to try and describe what he's seeing, except unlike Adam Johnson, who's very talented at it and very perceptive, quantum Zionism, things like that, the asymptotic two-state solution.

He comes up with phrases like suicidal empathy, which he liked so much that he wrote a book titled suicidal empathy, which came out last month, which has been a best, a look at that, suicidal empathy, dying to be kind with the graphic of a sheep holding a sign that says, free the wolves. Jesus Christ, these fucking people.

It's just, it's the same. It's just, what is this? What's the blur? What's the blur? Look at the blur. What's the blur? What's the blur? On the front.

Oh my, it's Musk, baby. Western civilization is doomed unless the core weakness of suicidal, suicidal empathy is recognized and actions are taken that are hard, but necessary for survival. Gad said, uh, Gad said articulates this well. All of God's books. Oh, Gad's books include this one. Including this one are great.

Sorry, it's really small type. I wonder how long it took for that message to arrive at God's office from the K-hole. Yeah, right, straight up. The Postal Service is notoriously bad deep in that K-hole. Anyway, so suicidal empathy, the notion being, of course, right, like. We want to help refugees. Have you considered the refugees want to kill? you or you know or we or we sympathize with we're Jews who sympathize with Palestine

who feel Palestine Palestinians or human beings you know which means that we were lining up to march into the next gas chambers or some stupid right exactly yeah he particular has it out from my family he he was kind of offended he didn't include me in this in this shoutout but at the recent anti anti-Zionist conference in Toronto where featuring who was it again who we talk about on this podcast? It was not Ben Shapiro, he was there, Eve Barlow, Lizzie Sivetsky. Jesse Brown, that's right. That's right. That's right.

Canada's number one lefty. That's right. Very progressive. As we'll become clear when my conversation with him comes out sometime soon. I'm kind of cringing. I still don't really know how I did, but either way, it'll be illuminating. I can't wait. At that conference, God was one of the speakers. and I read a transcript of one of his talks and he's like, anyone want to know who the worst

wood cricket Jew is? Wood cricket Jew is another one of his coinages. I don't know what a wood cricket is, but it's apparently some kind of insect that he thinks bears a striking resemblance to anti-Zionist Jews. Cool. He's like, the one who I hate the most,

the one who gets my goat the most. And someone from the audience said, Peter Beinart. And he said, no, good guess. Peter Bynard's bad, but the worst is Gabor Mate and his son Aaron Matei. That whole family are a boy.

bunch of wood cricket juice. Wow. I'm sorry he left you out, dude. I felt very left out. I mean, if he could have invited me and I would have piled on with him for my own reasons. Yeah, right. You're like, I also hate him, but for different reasons. That's right.

Exactly. It's like my self-hatred and my practical hatred. Yeah. Why do you keep bringing the, you know, Israel up into this? I'm allowed to hate my family for other reasons. It's fucking insane. I love that he does it by calling you guys bugs where he's just, like, no, some Jews are bugs.

That's his entire thing. Are we supposed to know what a wood cricket is? We just, are we just going? No, he explains it somewhere, I'm sure, in the first chapter of his stupid book, which I'll never read. Okay. So anyway, suicidal empathy is the core concept. It's his fucking bailiwick, if that's the right word. It's his boogeyman.

It's the thing he goes. It's the pinata, the straw man pinata that he's constantly swinging his trying to swing his dick at. and break. And then he decided recently that he could not live in Canada anymore because it's too anti-Semitic. And so he started initiating proceedings to move to the only safe place for Jews. I mean the United States.

It always happens that these fuckers who are whining about anti-Semitism move anywhere. They just move around the Commonwealth or around North American, English-speaking countries. They never actually take the plan B. No one does. It's so funny to me because their entire reason for feeling unsafe is based on criticism of Israel. And they're just like, no, Israel is great. It's the only place for the Jews. And for you to even suggest that Israel's doing something wrong means you yourself hate Jews and want to kill me.

I got to move to America. Oh, no, I won't go. Oh, yeah. They will not go to fucking Israel. And you guys know why? It's because they're lying because it sucks ass. If they thought it was great and they were willing to move because of anti-Semitism, wouldn't they move to Israel? Yes.

Come on. And this guy's from the Middle East. He's Lebanese. Yeah, exactly. Wouldn't even be a cultural shock. So that's... What if he just is like super honest and he's just like, well, I would move to Israel, but it's got a 20% Arab population. I don't want to be near that many Arabs.

There's all kinds of hummus everywhere. That's who he is. And as he's been preparing and mobilizing to make this bold move to the true rightful place of Jews, I'm assuming Florida, he's encountered some snags, the Canadian bureaucracy, the suicidally empathetic Canadian Democratic socialist state, which it's not, has been hitting him with some hardship, some adversity. And he took to Twitter to seek, well, let's see what he's seeking. In a sane world, governments exist to improve the lives of people at a minimum. True. The worst incidents of my life all stem from the provincial and federal governments, repeatedly punishing me financially for being successful in ways that make you feel trapped

in a Kafkaesque prison of despair. Wait, are we talking about just paying, Is that what this is about? I just talking about taxes. I love that. Speaking of bugs, maybe. Yeah, right. Exactly.

I'm feeling a lot like the, you know, metamorphosis seeing into some sort of wood cricket right now. I'm changing my name to Gregor Sampsa. I realize that many Canadians benefit from the system and hence will exhibit zero. What's that word? I don't know. Empathy. Empathy. Empathy. Empathy. Empathy. Yeah. Empathy. Empathy. I don't know what that word.

We'll exhibit zero empathy. Seriously. That's because we're not suicidal, fucker. Yeah, I guess I'm just trying to live. We love our lives. We're trying to live and we don't exhibit the type of suicidal empathy that is going to get us killed. Fucking head exterminator. Like, where my wood crickets at when I need them? Yeah, exactly. But in a just... You killed them all, man. You fumigated them. But in a just world, this reality should not be tolerated.

It can't be that a government owns 65% plus of all your worth once taxes are added up. It is about taxes. Send me good vibes going through a very difficult time. And I believe what he's talking about is capital gains tax. Oh, which doesn't allow you to abscond from a country where you made a bunch of money. What? But he could also, couldn't he just keep the money in there? What does moving have to do with capital gains tax?

I don't understand what tax is, never mind capital gains. It sounds like he wants to, you know, take some funds, you know, from his investments or whatnot. And he hates that in order to buy his, you know, his house in Palm Beach, he's going to have to pay 65% tax on his capital gains, which, bro, I'm sorry, man. That's got to be tough for you. If only there were a place that you could flee to in which, you know, you wouldn't have to deal with taxes because the taxes would be paid for by the American government. To be a conservative is to hate capital gains and to love Riley gains. That's right. Yeah. To hate capital gains and love capitalism. his stock producer adam says his stocks increased in value since he bought them and he'd be expropriating

that value if he sold them after leaving interesting interesting i mean look um obviously big fan of gad's ad keeping all of his money um the the problem with him not paying taxes that i have um is that that money would go directly to the israeli government and the fact that he doesn't want to pay his taxes means he does not want to fund the missile defense system in Israel, which says to me that he's sort of an anti-Semite. Agreed. Yeah. Unfortunate. I thought you was a real one, Gad. I can't bring myself to care, whether it's because he's such an asshole or the personal element. But I feel like I'm suffering from, I hope his next book will be about suicidal apathy, because that's how I feel towards his. Yeah, I feel suicidally apathetic towards your

blight man. I don't know. I care so little that it makes me want to kill myself. Yeah, exactly. As long as it's not homicidal apathy, then I think... Or genocidal apathy, which is... Certainly not. Which is the Israeli national product. Right, that's the one he exhibits. He truly is one of the most grotesque people on Twitter because he... And maybe this is, you know, my own personal thing, but he has the face of a nice man.

Yes. Like, you know, you see a picture of him and you're just like... like, oh, he looks like a nice old man. He looks like Basim Youssef's, like, pleasant brother. Yeah, yeah, they have the same sort of like bone structure. And when I see him, I'm like, oh, look at this sweet, you know, Zady. You know, wouldn't it be nice to go get some, you know, bacclava with him? Or wouldn't it be nice to, you know, have a nash at a local deli with my old pepaw?

But instead he's just like. Palestine 36 and then take a walk and talk about it. But instead, everything he tweets is just like, we got to kill the Muslims before they kill us. And it's like, damn, I hate you, grandpa. But I love it when people who shit on vulnerability, try to get vulnerable, people who shed on empathy, come trolling for empathy and saying, no, probably no one's going to care.

Dude, it's a rough one. I really struggling. Send me some good vibes. So the whole right wing anti-woke shit, and then they get so woke around Israel, so fucking triggered and safe Spacey and shit. It's not Spacey, not that guy, but you know what I'm saying. Yeah. Well, you know, Kevin Spacey, I think lives in Israel now. But that might not be a Zionism thing.

That might be a protecting pedophiles for prosecution thing. Right. That's the meaning of safe Spacey in that case. Yeah. It's a different kind of Zionism. Yeah. It's pedophilia Zionism. That is, anyways, Gad, we're not glad that you're so sad because we're empathetic.

But we're not so suicidally empathetic that we're ever going to help you. So good luck. Enjoy living in Canada, probably one of the safest places for Jews in the entire world, unless you are, you know, Jesse Brown, in which case you would take on. with that. So that is that. And now it's finally time to introduce our awesome guests. And Matt, before we do, let me just switch cadences for a moment. Matt, I was listening to the podcast run by our guests, Blowback. These are two young whippersnappers who started out in the dirt bag left, as it's called, and yet have managed to make a very area.

date, respectable, and serious cadenced podcast, and I believe that is because it's scripted. And I was thinking, Matt, that if you and I wish to be taken more seriously and break out of this rut that we're in of being a clown show, perhaps we might switch to a scripted podcast, leaving behind the riffage, the banter, and the unprepared dick jokes, and instead write the dick jokes into the script. What do you think of that? Well, I think that is a great idea. I would love to do that with you. One time, I fucked a big mouth Billy Bass in the mouth

when I was a kid. So the story starts when I went to Spencer's Gifts and saw a robotic singing fish and saw the mouth move and thought, quote, what that mouth do? Close quote. This week on this American life. Chapter 1, take me to the river.

That would be great. Don't know why. I fuck you like I do. That's right. No, it would be fun to script it, but then who the fuck has the time? I guess we did that once with the Christmas special. Anyway, these guys are fucking awesome. Their show is awesome.

And they have a new series out called, it's a mini-series called No Daylight. about the U.S.-Israel relationship dating back all the way to the 1940s. That's right. I am an episode and a half into it, and I'm just loving it. So excited to have these guys on the show. You want to fire up the intro? Please, ladies and gentlemen and everyone else, welcome to the podcast. From Blowback.

Let's get our backs blown out. Let's get our backs blown out for Brendan James and Noah Colwyn. Hello. How are you guys doing? Same tale of woe Yeah, it's shitty, everything sucks Yep Well you know what doesn't suck

Your podcast Hey Blowback has been So great since the start And this new mini series You guys are doing No Daylight History of the U.S. Israeli

relationship I've been listening to it On my road trip in the car And like You guys are just You just crushed it Like it's I wish it was longer

Like I'll be sad when the third episode's over, you guys selected three particular moments in the history of the U.S. Israeli relationship. The first one was especially exciting to me because it brought me back to in high school in the IB program, I wrote a 5,000-word, so-called extended essay. That was the name of the assignment. And the topic I chose was the U.S. Israeli relationship before 1948. So it brought me back to going to the primary documents and looking at the split between the four policy advisors in the White House and the State Department, and you guys cover that in all kinds of detail. How did you pick these three moments? What are they? And what is the significance?

How do they serve as like mile markers of what led us to where we are today? I think, honestly, it was the last moment that made me want to do something about this topic. It was George H.W. Bush's sort of showdown over $10 billion with Israel because I knew about it a bit, but it started to, you know, of course, over the past several years in which everyone is, I think more people than ever starting to question the nature of the U.S. Israel relationship, not even to say the morality or utility of it. How does it work? What is it like? That H.W. Bush thing started to just kind of really fast. fascinate me. And we thought, okay, we can do a mini-series, you know, in which we're more focused than a usual, more surgical than a usual season of blowback, where we're just flashing through these disparate moments. You know, we carry you, we fill in some gaps, but we wanted to just focus on these, on these individual moments of daylight between Israel and America, which we're told doesn't exist. Hence the, you know, slightly ironic title of the show, no daylight. We're saying

there has been daylight. What has been the nature of that daylight? Why did it happen? When did it happened. So to go through them in order briefly, it's like you have Truman, who of course, found it, rather recognized the founding of the state of Israel, played a part in that, to say the least, but he was quite resistant to it in a way that he later played down. And he accepted, as we spoke to scholar Doug Rossano about this, Truman was happy to be credited once it was all done and it wasn't controversial anymore. He was happy, well, it wasn't controversial with certain people, with mainstream American politics,

that he was happy to accept the, you know, Christian Zionist who brought Israel to life, you know, through American large yes and support. In fact, it was something he didn't want to do, refused to do for three years, refused to consider for three years. He wanted a binational state, a federated state of some kind.

It's not to glorify Truman or say even, you know, it was an effective resistance. against the nascent Zionist lobby that was really pulling out all the stops in America to pressure him politically. He gave in. But it was a fascinating story. Then you have in the middle, you have Eisenhower who embargoed arms to Israel. This was still in an era where Israel and America were not best friends. It was not a special relationship. It was not called that. It was not referenced that by anyone. And you're still well into Israel's existence at that point, several years. The Suez Crisis, you know, Israel was incredibly belligerent.

In those years, you know, you have this real sort of like gumption by an American president, such as Eisenhower, to say, I don't want to sell them arms. And it wasn't controversial for him to announce that. Am I right in saying, I sort of got this from Finkelstein some time ago, is it? Is it true that even American Jewish fealty and zeal for Israel at this point was roughly mirroring? I mean, they were obviously pro-Israel, but they weren't out and proud, fervent Zionists. And it was only after the Kissinger-Nixon kind of embrace when Israel was seen now as a suitable partner for Western hegemony, that Jews felt safe enough without risking their assimilation.

assimilationist aspirations to wear their blue and white on their sleeve. Well, Noah covered a moment in the 50s that was sort of a test of how publicly you could be pro-Israel. I should think, Noah, right? Yeah, I mean, there are a few different moments that kind of put pressure on, you know, They highlight the divergence between U.S. and Israeli interests. So the Suez Crisis in 56. What Brennan's referring to in 1953, when Israel commits a massacre in a village called Kibiya, and which sort of stimulates at home, the bad PR from that stimulates the creation of APEC,

or what will become APEC. You, I mean, you- A-PAC started from massacre crisis management? Yes. as did the conference of presidents of major American Jewish organizations. The coming out party, as you describe, I think 67 is probably better because even though 67 was unexpected, like, everybody knew before it happened that Israel was going to win. It wasn't really in dispute.

It was just militarily that much more powerful. The effect of the victory and the effect of the seizure of the, you know, of East Jerusalem, of the Temple Mount, of all of the, you know, of many of the lands that are, you know, are truly like, you know, like the places of the Bible. I don't think that the identification was as strong. And I don't think it wasn't as strong. At the, in 48, the identification was especially not strong. Zionism among American Jews was not a popular movement, essentially until the post-war period. and then only in the 50 in the late 40s and 50s,

mostly as a result of the Holocaust. And the fact that there was an emerging problem, sort of an immediate problem, really, after the Holocaust of what to do with all the Jews in TP camps. And so again, you sort of see like Zionism and pro-Israel and identification with Israel, this gradual process, but is ultimately responsive to what were these like very real problems

and crises at the time, and that ultimately pushed people into a place of greater identification with Israel. And then, you know, by the, by 1967, Israel was normalized and people thought Israel is here to stay. It's not just a blip. This isn't going anywhere. And they allowed that identification to deepen further. It's still being attacked by these giant Arab armies that, you know, it's, it's amazing to see how it was the David and Goliath narrative, you know, how it was able to defend itself. I should think probably, yeah, that's when there was a more, you know, so full chested identification

with Israel. But it was a very, very sensitive issue that Truman had to be aware of in the immediate aftermath of the Holocaust because Americans were, which is not a, you know, a surprising thing to hear, they were deeply ignorant of the population that already existed in Palestine. And they just thought, well, okay, some people have to scoge over, but let's let all these people who were horribly massacred in the Nazi Holocaust that are still surviving, rather. Let's give them a shot. And Truman, with the British, you know, these were imperial solutions, of course,

but they were trying to say, you can't, you can go somewhere else. Uganda, Madagascar, you know. And this doesn't have to be the takeover of an entire land. But the initial Zionist position, especially the hardliner, in America who were lobbying Truman was a Jewish state, period, no Palestinian state, no Arab state, a Jewish state in all of Palestine. A one state solution. A one state solution from the very beginning. Exactly. So, you know, we can get into the contours of that, but the, I should add just the final episode is Reagan, you know, interceding in the shelling of Beirut and calling it a Holocaust,

the general upgrading of Apex capabilities and their intimidation of sitting, you know, lawmakers and even people in the White House. And then the little Cota, so it's really four moments, is the HW loan guarantees standoff that I mentioned at the start, which I think was a good place to leave it and one that maybe we can get to later.

Do you cover the, is it apocryphal or factual Biden meeting with Sharon saying, you know, you gotta shell women and children and Sharon being like, sir, we have morals. I don't think we bring that up in the show, but I think that's true, right?

Isn't that true? that exchange? I believe so. Yeah. I know the gist of it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I heard it on Twitter, and that's where I get my news, so I assume that it's true. Well, let's, we'll look that one up.

Yeah. But Jamie, can you pull that one out? Yeah, Jamie, can you pull that one out? It's a great series, especially since it sort of also outlines the political alignment with the left and early, you know, and, you know, and, you know, and, you know, and, it's a great series, especially, you know, in the early formation of the state of Israel, the way it was sort of a progressive and leftist issue. And this is something I've known for a long time, but what I love is you guys make a point to say, I know this is going to sound surprising to a lot of our listeners here,

but this was a left-wing issue. Can you talk more about that sort of political alignment with regards to the way the Soviet Union was also? seen as like sort of a proponent of early Zionism, or at least of the early state of Israel, and then how that switched over into the sort of Western imperial state that it is now. The first thing I want to say, that that remark by Biden is apparently correct. It was Monachem Begin who Monarchum Begin in his notes wrote that Biden had said that to him. Nice. What a cool guy. If you're freaking, if you're freaking out Began,

about Lebanon. Calm down. Manathan Began trying to push the Democrats left in 1983. That's right, baby. Good for him. So to your question, Matt, about like, Israel and Zionism initially is a progressive cause, I think the way to look at it, or at least a couple different ways to think about it. One is that it's a bit about coalition kind of politics, which is that the Democratic Party

in the New Deal coalition included the Jews. And the Jews, while numerically small, were incredibly influential in policymaking and intellectual and cultural circles, but also in cities, especially New York City, which in the 1940s by the time of Israeli independence was known as Jew York City. Well, no, should I, what should I just drop the Truman quote? Because we keep, it's a good quote. Yeah, it is a great quote. Truman earlier in his life, in his life who was writing to a friend or a cousin, I think it was. and he said, I just visited New York City. There's, you know, however many people here.

Nine million people. Yeah. 80% of them are of Israelish extraction. There's a few whops and the rest of them are white people. And so, you know, that was his, I think, you know, I would have to check the numbers, but his interpretation. I love the anti-Italian racism in there. Just like, it's so fresh. No, right.

Tell me you didn't go to Harlem without telling me you didn't go to Harlem. Yeah. This dude was just in, you know, Midtown just being lots of Jews and Waps here, guys. What are we doing? I'm sure Truman was a big, I'm sure he would have loved the jazz clubs. Oh, absolutely. No, I think the other piece of that, right? So it's like there is this coalitional thing of, you know, like that's where the Jews are. And the Jews by the late 1940s, even if they were not like, you know, even if let's say like the reformed Jewish movement, for example, was not Zionist. Zionism was rising in political currency, particularly because of the moment in which it's rising in political currency,

which is as like a kind of Western-friendly, anti-colonial movement. You know, it's, Zionism was seen, right, as a long, the realization of a national liberation for a long-oppressed people, the Jews. And they're doing it, you know, like Zionist militias are blowing up British installations and British hotels and so forth.

then, you know, it's, it's, cosmetically, it seemed like it fit a kind of story that was popular with progressive, you know, in the, in, in progressives at the time. It's fascinating because this is, this seems like a very specifically Western narrative that exists. It only exists in the West, the idea of this as anti-colonial,

whereas like everywhere else in the world, it was just very clearly a, you know, sort of a very old colonial tactics. the idea. And that narrative also seems to have gone to bed for a while. It feels like it's made a resurgence in the past few years. Like growing up in a leftist, socialist, Zionist summer camp setting, that's not one of the Hasbara angles that they fed to us, but I've been hearing it nonstop. Oh, the indigenity, the decolonization of Palestine by the Jews. Well, and we've discussed this and you hear it on the show. I wish we had more time in the show to go into this, but there was not only progressives and liberals who felt that, especially in the aftermath, of the Holocaust Zionism was this

you know sort of restorative justice right with obviously no no curiosity about the so the ideas of human rights or you know anti-colonial principles they supposedly

had as liberals and progressives applying to Palestine John Judas's book Genesis is very good on calling all that out it's a good book but also the far left, not all of them, but there were some Soviet agents, Alger Hiss, some of his fellow travelers, they were publicly and in their capacity as political actors in America, they were Zionist. And the idea, I think, was that, we'll get to the Soviet Union itself, was that

there was an attempt, that Jews were opposed on average to the, the harsher Cold War measures that were being contemplated by the Truman administration or elements of it. And so that if you could associate Zionism, which was a nice idea among most American Jews at that point and a positive thing, if you could associate socialism and communism with acceptance of that idea, you'll make inroads with them about these Cold War measures and sort of have a poison pill in Truman's coalition. Now, when you get to the actual moment where the Soviet Union, which up until, I think, 47, been unambiguously saying, no, there should be no Jewish state, secular, binational, federated, whatever, but not that. They continued to say that, but they started to introduce Andre Grameco, the foreign minister at the time, or rather the ambassador of the UN, said, if we can't get that, were open to a just execution of a partition of a Jewish state and a Palestinian state.

Not the entire area of being a Jewish state, which had already, no one was up for that other than the hardcore Zionists. But they essentially surrendered the position. Why the speculation at the time, which I think is not necessarily been resolved, is that the idea was they wanted to push the British out of the Middle East, which was part of what was going on in Israel getting founded, was no more colonial administration of either Arab or Israeli, proto-Israeli population. And the Soviet said, we'll take that deal. And then, of course, if only a few years later, they would represent the superpower that was opposed to Zionism and making fast friends with the Arab nationalists and all of that. But in that exact moment, they kind of, you know, it's not a glittering moment for a lot of people

who believed in the Soviet Union standing up for, you know, anti-colonial. struggle. Right. Yeah. It's fascinating because, you know, the way we put pro-Israel sentiment, you know, into a political box now is just so vastly different from most people's understanding of it, especially people, you know, in the West who recently learned about what Israel is. So people often are confused as to how so many, you know, liberal or progress. aggressive Jews, you know, how could they be pro-Israel? How could they have ever been pro-Israel? And the flip side was that right-wingers within Truman's cabinet were like, we're going to seat all the Arab, all the influence with the Arab states, which have oil,

to the Soviet Union. I'm a cold warrior. I don't want that. What is this crap about a Jewish state? Just have them get along with people in whatever federated system. It was not, the right wing was, you know, probably for some because they did necessarily love the idea of, you know, Jews, Jews in general. But honestly, I wouldn't even slander some of the other right wingers with that, you know, with the anti-Semitism thing. I think they genuinely just thought it was strategically stupid, and it was not really just either. And there was no reason to be bullied by the domestic advisors, which is really where Truman ended up what he cared more about and what he was more conversant in, was domestic politics. And his domestic advisors, like Clark Clifford,

who writes about it in his own book, Counsel to the President, he said, look, if you want to win, you're going to want to keep the New Deal coalition intact. That includes Jews. And so you need to, you need to play along with this Israel stuff. Yeah. It's really interesting seeing where this all leads in terms of that no daylight title. Because especially for the last 10 years, every time you look backwards in time when it comes to United States policy with regard to Israel,

you always look at it and go, oh, I found a little daylight. And then as you go on more and more, you find more and more daylight. One example to me has been, was even like something as, you know, like the JCPOA, right?

That was... Can someone tell you what JCPOA stands for? I keep hearing it. I don't know what that is. Jesus Christ, put on a... Jesus Christ, a piece of ass.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Someone will look it up. It's beautiful. The JCPOA was obviously seen, of course, by the Israelis as like a total capitulation to Iran, and it was seen as like Iran, you know,

besting them in some way. And now it looks like there might be a JCPOA Part 2 with the Trump administration. How does your analysis of the history inform what you think might be happening now currently in Switzerland between the Iran delegation and the United States? And if I could just piggyback one thing onto that, how does your analysis of the history induce you or lead you to view or respond to what we covered on our last episode Friday's, on episode, which is statements, which seem to me to be more daylight heavy than I've seen

in a while from people like Vance, like you're a country of nine million people, stop pissing us off, who else you got? Like Trump, you know, we could rely on this Al-Qaeda, butcher, Al-Jolani to be less brutal than you fucking idiots. How significant is this? Where does it fit into the history? Is there any discontinuity, or is it just more of the same? And finally, JCPOA stands for Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action. I would say that the thing that I, like the comparison that I come to when I look at like the present moment and the current like weird shambolic state of negotiations with Iran overending this war that we've already lost, etc. Has actually not really been anything from the miniseries. It's instead been what we talk about in our fifth season, which is about in part the end of the Vietnam War.

and the negotiations in Paris between the North Vietnamese and the Americans. And those negotiations administered by Henry Kissinger were not really about ending the war. The negotiations went as long as they did, in part, because the negotiations were about buying time or about trying to simply exist and prolong while the U.S. tried very. military strategies to regain something like an upper hand and force more concessions. The war had been functionally lost. It had been lost, I mean, it had been lost on the ground since 67 or 66 for sure. And by 68, by Tet, it was, it was, I mean, that shit was for sure dead. But the negotiations went on for another four years.

And it was because the U.S. could not abide losing a war. And it couldn't abide losing a war for a lot of different reasons. And because Nixon and Kissinger sabotaged the best chance at peace in the run-up to their election in 16th. Because they thought, like, they're like, we'll get into power and we'll get peace with honor. You know, we'll do it right. God, gosh, darn it. I mean, just just as a point, like, there was another example of a third party that South Vietnam and agents from South Vietnam were working with a U.S. politician who was interested in, you know, achieving office against the interests of, you could argue both of their own country. There was a backroom thing that Nixon and Kissinger were obviously very good at.

And I think that's happened more than a couple times with Israel and America. And so in this case of Vietnam, these negotiations, right, were about negotiating America, like the size of America's L, essentially. And I think that a lot of these Iran discussions are also about the same. And the other major similarity in the context is that neither president in America who's negotiating can really admit to taking the L. Nixon, for a number of reasons, you know, that are related to both his personality and also not wanting to lose political capital and save face there. And Trump, for another set of similar complicated reasons that are both about the interplay of his personality and also the fear that, like, you remove this jenga brick of, like, conceding, like, we fucked up. We lost this. Then, you know, the rest of his administration comes tumbling down, clearly.

So I think that there is. But America needs to do next time is to sign a prenuptial agreement before they go ahead and get into war with anybody. that's right mitigate the size of the L in advance because it's a good idea that is a good idea yeah pre rupture agreement so I think now

that like the the way that it's just you know like what is that what is this historical comparison suggests I don't think it really suggests it doesn't give me any insight as to what comes next

what I think it does suggest though and what it does point to is that it is very very easy for presidents who run on and are ambitious about winning a war and who talk about victory when what people want is peace

inevitably they find themselves not inevitably but usually they find themselves in political trouble very very quickly like it's just a sure recipe and that's what to me is the salient thing here like that's what you also see Nixon eventually ran into political trouble as the Vietnam War prolonged

draft you know fucking like GIs are having a general revolt etc and Trump has got his own kinds of troubles coming about. But he's got a new kind of trouble, doesn't he? I mean, no U.S. President has had to deal with this strange phenomenon of shit. If I want my party to win the next election, popular opinion is fucking screaming down the highway away from support for Israel.

Is that not a significant new wrinkle that we haven't seen before? That's an interesting wrinkle. I mean, he's not, I mean, so far this has been a pattern we've seen with a couple instances in the miniseries, for example. I won't include Truman in this because that was the founding moment of Israel, but when you get to, say, Reagan and then H.W., which is where we end the timeline for now, we may do a second part of no daylight. The initial Israeli transigence to American cooperation and, you know, the American agenda is so shocking to the American patrons that that they decide to go out publicly and say, look, I mean, enough is enough.

You know, we are, and we will continue to be Israel's best friend. But you're not getting your $10 billion in loan guarantees in the case of H.W. Bush. Or with Reagan, I'm suspending support for Israel until they start behaving like civilized people in Lebanon or whatever. then the problem is is that unless you're really willing to make this your whole term or all two terms or whatever of which obviously HW never got a second you the nuclear arsenal that Israel has and is willing to threaten stuff about doesn't go away the powerful lobby doesn't go away at home you start seeing your allies picked off and you start going is this worth is the juice worth to squeeze and I think that while Vance is doing the thing he's if not likable for but kind of good at which is being a smarmy little prick to an American ally

which is what he did he did with Zelensky and everyone was like this is the end of American you know hegemony or whatever which it didn't turn out to be did you even say thank you that yeah notice he hasn't quite yet done that to all of Israel but he's he's doing a version of it he effectively said that, though. I thought it was a pretty effective. I'm not endorsing J.D. Vance in any broader sense, but I thought it was... Oh, believe me. This is a quoting does not constitute endorsement podcast of the wazoo. Yeah, of course, yeah. We have a trigger warning for every time we can talk about fucking Tucker. This people keep getting mad at us for even admitting he exists. I'm sure you're mired and that's stupid. You have to acknowledge that things exist. I, I, I,

but yes, so to quote Vance, for example, who exists. It is, you know, him saying it was very calculated way to say it, which I thought was effective, which is we're the only country who supports you right now. So it's both affirming, you have our support, which could go away if you're not careful, although I don't, I think that would be a tough, tough thing for them to actually execute. But we have our support, but we're also saying you're not really worthy of support because we're the only ones who are offering it. And probably that's because of longstanding ties and shit, we can't get out of right away. So there's sort of, he's sort of admitting Israel is not really an ally worth having and needs to shape up if it wants to have any allies at all. And I think that Bush,

Bush, um, Bush one and Reagan, uh, were a little bit less, you know, um, sort of openly brady about how they delivered these remarks, obviously, but, but they, they were saying something similar. The problem, yes, though, to answer your question, is like, are we seeing a genuine shift because of antipathy or outright, um, you know, uh, open, uh, contempt. for Israel in polling and in elements of both parties. I'll be impressed if they go that far. It's just that, you know, that was already present when Trump agreed to go to war in Iran on behalf of Nanyahu.

That's right. That's right. I think there's a greater whatever the word you want to say superstructure of relations that are not, they're not governed by the public opinion if they ever were on any issue. Yeah. You know. Yes. I would.

Yeah, go ahead. I would also add that there's like one of the. piece to this, which is that like when this war began, people saw what was going on with the price of oil and they saw, you know, like the spot market prices going up and up and up. And it freaked a lot of people out. And people should be freaked out because closing the Strait of Hormuz doesn't really seem like a viable thing to continue happening if the world economy is going to function. I mean, remember what happened when a ship got stuck in the Suez Canal. That's right.

You know, it's like these stags matter, even if like the spot price of crude has, you know, rerun. It's to some extent in the month's sense. And I think that a lot of the discontent that people have about this war is like it's just bound up in the sense of like a fear of general instability. Like prices are high and increasing. Housing, you know, like the problems in people's lives, Americans broadly do not feel like are getting better. And that's, you know, a pretty worldwide phenomenon among voters and all kinds of, I mean, we're seeing anti-incumpancy waves pretty much what it feels like every four years um i think in the u.s what remains to be seen and what you were kind of getting at is that there is this um like is

is the in the way that vietnam for example in a much more powerful way seemed to be like an organizing um you know like it was the fuel that you know got eugene mccarthy to challenge lbj in 1968 and successfully forced him not to seek re-election and so forth um i mean certainly the that those are the lines in which people you know i talked to seymour hirsch uh in 2024 about this i mean that was that was what was on his mind when biden was running his reelection campaign um you know can gaza become or can Palestine can opposition to israel become that kind of wedge and i'm just not sure we're there yet um i just like the for a number of different reasons right it is more likely uh that uh what trump and vance and you know their administration is responding to

is calls from people who are looking at the crashing of the global economy rather than calls from constituents who are like, this is a moral crisis, what are you doing? Well, I'm sure the Democrats will learn the right lessons and adjust course accordingly. Yeah, it'll be great. Everything's, they always do. You can always count on the Democrats to listen to the people.

But speaking of J.D. Vance and Iran and all of that stuff, just an update on the talks in Switzerland So as of today, the first round of high-level negotiations between the U.S. and Iran concluded with both sides agreeing to a, quote, road map, love a good roadmap, to a final deal within 60 days and set up a chain of communication, quote, to avoid incidents in the Strait of Hormuz. Like Daniel was alluding to, a Thomas Guide to Peace, thank you, producer Adam, yeah, a MapQuest to piece. Like Daniel was alluding to, we talked a lot about the reactions to, you know, the Iran deal from the Hezbarosphere. And the reactions to what's going on in Switzerland have also been kind of amazing. I just want to read one real quick from a, you know, someone who I love, this guy, Rabbi Poopko. I don't know if you guys know Rabbi Poopko, but I think I'd remember him.

Yeah, he's one of those good. You'd remember the smell, at least. He is responding to a video of J.D. Vance giving sort of an update about what's going on in Switzerland, and he wrote this wonderful little bit of, I guess, a Talmudic summary of a story. There is an old Jewish tale told in the Talmud about a master who sent his servant to buy for him fish in the market. The servant came back with a fish that was utterly rotten and smelled bad for his master. His master gave the servant three options. Eat the rotten fish, pay a fine, or be expelled from the city. The servant chose the first and began eating the rotten fish. Halfway

through eating the rotten fish, he just couldn't stomach it anymore, so he asked to pay the fine. after he paid half the fine, he realized he cannot afford it anymore and was therefore expelled from the city, thereby taking on all three punishments. That is what J.D. Vance did to himself by turning on Israel and his horrifying performance today in Switzerland. You should have taken the fourth option, we just kill his fucking master. Right. Well, that's not in the Talmud. For giving him that fucking terrible choice. So shout out to Ron.

Rabbi Pupko for a little bit of, you know, Talmudic education. No, is that a story that you recognize from the Talmud? Look, Halakha, or a Jewish law, is a complicated, many-faceted thing. That's right. And the rules governing servants and fish are very important. and look I mean it is I gotta say like to me it's just like

a really classic case of it's like why do you think this story like it's like you just want to say that like he debased himself needlessly that's what you want to say and so instead you go with like a parable about a servant and so it's like well okay like I understand that like in yeshiva

when you have these discussions about the servant in the fable and it's like okay I get it like people can appreciate and like remove the thing from the context or like they're not thinking about like the implication right servant being forced to eat rotten fish because it's just like it's it's like a 600 year old story or what like i you know i it's it just is um what did he want does he want him to eat the fish is that is that what he wants him to do no no he wanted to pick a lane exactly it was it's like i'm saying but one of those lanes

was eating the fish which one did he want him to do it wasn't funny no he just wanted a joke. That's like a lot of Jewish jokes. In so doing he's following the instructions on the first page, the foreword

of the Talmud, which no one ever reads because it's an invisible ink. But if you read it, it says, this book is to be used in case of emergency. When you don't have an argument and you're dealing with silly going, pull out a random story from this book and act like it pertains

and that it contains deep wisdom that only someone who's been to yeshiva can understand and then you'll trigger the anti-sumites into believing that the tommood is a book of dark arts well so it's rabbi rabbi rabbi popoff is saying that like you you you have um like if you're going to have to like leave town anyway because the fish is rotten and you can't afford the fine then like you know just just do that like don't don't debase yourself if you're going to have to go to that outcome like if you've already lost the war like that's my impression of what he's saying. It's just like, all right, like

you know, one word economy, you could have just said, you don't have to debase yourself. You didn't have to provide this weird story. I wonder if there's a story from, I don't know, the Tanakh or something that says, hey, if you're trying to tell stories for

the general public, maybe don't do one in which you call the vice president of the United States a servant to a master. You know, it's all five, it's all five-ish again. It's all five. It is. Everything is five-ish. It's just this constant misunderstanding of how it looks to everybody else. What if what if what what what what what what if Trump does inexplicably just actually double down on on the antistrial stuff because he's like we have to do it.

The polls are saying they're saying it loud and clear we're doing protocols now but um then he does it and Gary Gary where's Gary he goes too far the best Trump impression that's ever appeared on this. Yeah, that was very good. But he goes too far and then he has to do, yes, he's like, oh, we, we have to roll it back and he has to do events with five-ish. He has to, like, shake five-ish's hand and, like, do a fundraiser with Five-ish and, like, talk with him a little bit. Like, in the Oval Office, like, Five-ish is trying to sit on one of those big golden chairs. He's like, oh, you? I don't know what Five-ish says in his show.

I said to Five-ish, I like you very much. I don't know why you don't up it to Six-ish. Get in my wallet. He didn't want to hear it. I say what's... Trump would do a gag. He'd be like, he won't fit. He'd be like, he won't fit in.

He won't fit in the wallet. What's going on? We're printing the bills way too big now, five-ish, but we love you anyway. Like, I don't know. If that happens, then it'll all been worth it, maybe. Absolutely. I do think one piece of this is also, though, like the Talmud coding thing is just that it's like, this is what we are seeing.

like this kind of genre of post of like the tearing the hair out running the garment style stuff um like these guys have not really been doing that for a few years right they've mainly just been like cheerleading you know and when they tear their hair out it's it's it's it's like a tactical things that they can get more of what they want you know like when biden was like i'm not going to give you the like hell fired baby killer 4,000 missiles and then like two days later it's like the anti-semites in washington are preventing us from getting the baby killer and then it's like the whole thing it is really the point um it's very funny to watch you know a self debasing clown like rabbi pukko in a moment where israel is just eating

shit on the global stage and being completely betrayed by their master or their servant depending on the day trying to be like look at how this how this vice president is be clowning himself they've never they've never been this agitate like like not getting the baby killer missile not doing anything nothing has agitated them as much as what they're experiencing right now which is why we're seeing the Talmud stories in distress yes what is Mark Levin quoting any Talmudic wisdom or is he just oh no I think he's just doing that logic song with the suicide hotline he's doing his his master shake uh freak out yeah does he's wait does he sound like master shake is that uh oh my god dude are you

kidding me? We'll put it on after. I'll send it to you. There's an amazing, someone did an amazing, just like took Master Shake animations and just piped in Levin on any given episode of this show. So 10 seconds ago, Mark R. Levin, Mark Hart R. Levin tweeted. So it's a screenshot of a headline for Newsweek. Tucker Carlson tells Republican Party, I'm out. And then Mark R. Levin says, I think his new party has uniforms. And I I don't mean boy scouts.

Nice. He's a killer, dude. This guy crushes and clubs and colleges all over. And I don't mean boy scouts. Yeah. And me was like, hell yeah. Yeah.

Noah, you have. I'm amazed you haven't seen it, but I'll say it too. Maybe I have and I'm just blocking, you know, like it's some, I lost it before in my head. We will, of course,

add the clip of Aquatine Hunger Force into this. Aquatine Starvation. for it. Yeah, it's video. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I wish I'd known that before going on, but no, that's good. No, that's fine. You looked great. I was watching you the whole time. Thank you. Um, yeah, pipe it in because it's a great. It's a great, just sort of, uh, it's a way to better understand Mark Levin. Absolutely. In fact, we'll pipe it in, we'll pipe it in right now, uh, right before we go to commercial break, which we have to do,

but everyone stick around, watch this master shake clip, and we will be right back. Imperial president, please, please, give us Obamacare. I'm going to make you like it because that's what we radical left-wing ideologues do. Screw you, screw the Constitution, screw elections, balance of power, checks and balances. None of it matters. I've got my Obamacare and you're stuck with it forever with our totalitarian mindset. That is what we do. BetMGM is an official sports betting partner of the National Hockey League

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And we're back as bad as bar. The world's most moral podcast here with the blowback podcast. Brendan James and Noah Cole and how you guys do, and still good. Good. Sick. Sick and great. Hope everyone enjoyed that clip. That was certainly put in there after the fact.

To continue talking about these types of freakouts that people have been having, I want to talk a bit about Ben Gavir doing this insane genocidal tweet against Lebanon. And the new Hasbara tactic of rather than mass condemnation, a few weeks ago, Ben Gavir was doing some open, cruel and unusual intimidation to people who had gotten taken off Gaza flotillas and arrested by the Israeli police. and everyone in the Hezbarosphere decided, oh, it's okay to criticize Ben Gavir. Let's all condemn him, say he's not us, it's different, yada, yada, yada. This time around, people just decided, we can't do this every time Ben Gavir acts up because he's such a dickhead. He's just going to keep doing this. So instead, we need to start defending I'maer Ben Gavir.

First, to read this tweet once again, which by the way, The post violated the, quote, X rules. So Twitter's rules. However, X has determined that it may be in the public's interest for the post to remain accessible. Hell yeah, Grock. It is super insane to me that they were going to remove this at all. Have you guys been on Twitter? It's all fucking, it's all genocidal bullshit.

Oh, yeah, no. It's like these days you can like I said something the other day about it's like yeah I think you're a bad person if you hate immigrants and I don't get notifications for people I don't follow so it wasn't anything but I guess like Nazis like Nazi Twitter. Yeah yeah you know like just discover and it was insane. Yeah they're crazy what's on there now. It's nuts. Yeah they are it's just so much worse than it's ever been on Twitter. I learn things about myself as a Jew every single day. Yeah, exactly. It's nice to be constantly surrounded in a sea of Nazis. Well, I just think it's nice because I got all these Jews telling me I'm not Jewish. I got all these Jews telling me I'm not Jewish. Now I got all these anti-Semites telling me that I am Jewish.

I know. It's great. It's very confusing. Brendan is like, what are you? I wasn't really using it until recently. And I was like, oh, this is actually, this is good now. This website's kind of picking up. Yeah, it's got all these correct guys on it. Yeah.

so Ben Gavir wrote and I'll just read something because we read it last the previous episode but for every tear of an Israeli mother, a thousand Lebanese mothers must weep. All of Lebanon must burn. With all due respect to the Americans, Israel must make it clear to the entire world that the blood of our sons and the security of our citizens are not forfeit. All of Lebanon must burn. And he just kind of repeats this over and over. over again. This is one of the all-time, with all-do-respect preludes.

Like, normally with all-do-respect is like, with all-do-respect, I didn't agree with his leadership during that period. I didn't agree with that decision on the office party. Instead, it's, with all due respect, all of Lebanon must burn. I don't know if that's ever been quite that I mean, listen, I know I respect your opinion about not burning all of Lebanon, but in my just personal opinion, all of it must burn. It should burn. Yeah. So he's, uh, he's, uh, You know, super normal. I just, it's the equivocation that gets me. I just, I can't really tell what he's saying here.

Yeah. Yeah, what's he driving at here? She's pick a lane, dude. There's like, there's all these caveats. He needs to hear the story of the fish and the fine. That's right. Don't you know? You got to eat the rotten fish or just get the fuck out of here.

Yeah. This guy doesn't get it. He doesn't. Sometimes new ones just goes too far and this post is one of them. So the responses to this have been just great. This is from a person named Rupa Sabra Mania who wrote... She's from the free press, by the way. I was about to say.

I was about to ask. Ben-Givir's rhetoric often comes across as extreme. Comes across. Yeah. It's your opinion. It's one opinion. It's smacks of extremity. But it's impossible to understand Israel without understanding its predicament.

It's a tiny country that has spent decades. facing enemies committed to its destruction. That produces a security mentality, unlike almost anywhere else. And unlike any other country out there, Israel treats the protection of its own citizens as the government's highest obligation. Unlike other countries. Yeah, unlike other countries. I'm sorry, security mentality is sick. Yeah, it's like grindset mindset for psychopaths.

Damn, dog. Is that the matchbook on a football field metaphor? Yeah, dude, it is truly an insane way of framing this, where you go like, in order to understand why we got to kill them all, you have to understand what it's like to be small. Here's the thing you have to understand about Germany. It's surrounded on enemies on all sides. When you think about it, Germany is just this one small nation in a whole sea of Europe. That's so true. over to the east you got you know this fucking like like this the french and the jews the jews

are actually in there those yeah no i mean this is i like part of what i find a little bit amusing like this though is that this is just like like how much money do you think this lady makes like she works at the free press like she's a job there like like somebody at cbs whose job was like to you know like be like the first person to like you know i don't know to be on the scene and like a coup in you know like Indonesia or whatever like like they lost their job yes this person

so that Rupa can be like security mentality you know sometimes the mentality of the security is the security the mentality is the mentality you have to understand that sometimes when you're afraid you got to kill them all it's just you know you sympathize more with a genocidal maniac

when you could try to take on their mindset that's always a good thing to do I mean look I'm all for trying to understand historical context. Where do, where does monstrosity come from? Sure. Let's talk about Versailles when we talk about, let's talk about all kinds of histories when we, you know, you know, atrocities, don't appear out of thin air. And as someone who grew up around scientists and Israelis, I'm interested in the development of this mentality more than Rupa is. Absolutely. Sure. Sure. But Rupa's not actually trying to understand it. She's starting from the premise that it's justifiable. There must be some way to

under it, and here's the explanation that'll do it. Well, you say that, Daniel, that she's not trying to understand, but I just went to her author page at the free press, free press, theFP.com. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's a lot, she's Canadian apparently. I mean, I'm getting, she's

a lot of, she's the Canadian correspondent. So it's a lot of, like, some of it's about anti-Semitism, but then some of it's about, I don't even know. Mark Carney or something. Yeah, like, like, residential schools didn't actually happen. There's a Mark Carni. thing. But then, but then this is, this is one, she's, she's, she's complaining about Canada. He goes,

this week in Canada, we want more of America's money, please, I guess, pejoratively. And it's like, yeah, I mean, she makes a good point. You're making fun of Canada about that at the time that you're also saying Israel should be able to pay Ben Gavir to do genocide stuff. Well, Canada doesn't have the type of, you know, mentality that understands secure. And also, Canada doesn't protect its own citizens. It doesn't have, well, it's not the government's highest obligation, as she says. Which now that I know that she's Canadian and, you know, the fact that she works for the free press, 100%. This is a dig at the Canadian government's treatment of Jews in crisis, because that's the entire Zionist and right-wing narrative in Canada right now is that there is a polite pogrom.

Thank you, Jesse Brown, for that, happening in a... Canada to the Jews of Canada. Fun stuff. But the takeaway from it, of course, is pay no attention to the man underneath the Yarmulka with the pistol on his hip. And that's going to be the genre we're going to see throughout all these tweets.

I just have to read this other one, her headline. This is from last year. But I didn't know about it, so I'm glad I came to the website. Anti-Israel protesters get police protection. Not this Christian rocker. In Canada, Sean fucked

was forced to perform in a field. Now, as he's spelling that, F-E-U-C-H-T, but... That's fucked. It looks like his name is Sean fucked. That's Sean fucked. I don't know the... Is that correct? I don't know.

But he didn't get police protection. I'm not Canadian enough to know... I'm Canadian, but I'm not that Canadian, do I've never heard of Sean fucked? I'm not going to know the other alternate spellings of fucked. But it sickens me that these protesters get police protection. And what about Sean fucked? Well, he's fucked. Yeah, Sean's fucked, dude.

Yeah. And that's not... That's not an irony I enjoy at all. Nomitive determinism. Exactly. So more on this. Pierce Morgan commented, how can anyone still support this Israeli government

when psychopathic monsters like Ben Gavir are ministers in it, advocating genocide in Lebanon? Disgusting. To which, Napali Bennett, the alternative choice for a liberal Israel wrote

And one of the most vocal, It's a Mars, shut your filthy mouth. Right. You're making us look bad of a month ago. Yes. Yes. Wrote, Peers, the IDF is operating in accordance with international law against Hezbollah, a terrorist organization that has hellbent on killing Israelis. You would do the same if it were your family in danger. Pay no attention to Ben Gavir. He's a clown who represents neither Israel's values nor its actions. He doesn't, he didn't serve a single day as a soldier. No, he's just not. He's not. He's not just. He's not. He's not just.

just an extremely powerful minister in the Israeli government. This is the thing is that like for a while, especially... These are not the MK as you're looking for. Especially in the beginning of like the aftermath of October 7th and it was like, it was like, okay, you know, oh, that guy said on TV, you know, they're animals or...

And I know that was the defense minister, right? But there were all these, this slew of things and they were being said by Israeli culture and on Israeli TV. And everyone's like, oh, you're taking the... That was like the Yair-Rosenberg special was just like, you're taking this stuff and it's just like with Ben Gavir, it's like,

okay, you're right. He's only the minister of national security. Like, it's, what is this, what is this out of context nonsense where you're trying to paint? It's like there was an actual powerful person saying it. He's only the Israeli minister of national security. I mean, it's only a bunch of words.

You know how like, yes, yes. Like eyesight is actually an optical illusion. Like there's no orange out here on our background. Like your mind is putting it together. with the cones and the dendrites and whatever. That's right. Rodson cones.

Saul Rods and cones. There is no Ben Gvere tweet. It's just a bunch of squiggles on a screen. You're the one who's supplying it. What's up with you, bro, that you think that that's an incitement to genocide? That's so true, dude. Yeah. I mean, it's a great argument for someone who, let's say, is just some private citizen who writes fucked up shit on the internet.

Maybe not for the guy in charge of prisons. in the rape colony of Israel. Mr. I love noosters. Yes. Because National Security, Minister of National Security, it sounds like it's, it sounds like it's a foreign thing,

but wasn't it originally like internal security was the title? Yeah, yeah. It's like a secretary of war, secretary of defense, you know, it's just, they're just flipping it around, but I mean,

security of the nation. Andy, it's also like, there's this, I mean, to me, the thing with Ben Gvere is just that, Like, it's just the most classic case of everybody's going to be laughing him, laughing at him right now. Right.

And, you know, in, like, in, like, in, like, two, three years, he could very easily be prime minister. Easily. I know, like, I just, it's not. I mean, just think about, you know, like, just think about what would happen if, like, oh, I don't know, Donald Trump ran for president. Right. Yeah. It's very, it's very clear. Wouldn't that be funny?

And to be, you know, honest, the, the reason that he tweets like this, uh, and, you know, And, you know, in Hebrew, and he would do it in English, too, I don't doubt. But the reason that he does is because he does distinguish himself from the people to the left of him, you know, quote to the left of him. He wants it to be known that he's that guy who will say, I like genocide. I will kill them all. And it's because he does have higher ambitions. And he probably will be prime minister. Well, he's the literal embodiment of Moshe Dayaan, wasn't it Moshadian, who,

talked about the mad dog theory where Israel needs to show that it'll, I mean, literally, Ben-Givir said this in another tweet recently. Yeah. You have to go berserk in this region. You have to let people know that you will bring the earth crashing down with you. Exactly. If they fuck with you. And Israel's never had a guy who's willing to do it in such a clownishly unhinged way.

And he could be Israeli prime minister. And part of me doesn't know whether to dread that or hope for it. Kind of both. Yeah. Because I'm really tracking the. complete decay of the pretense. Because like Trump, Trump being president is a sign of both horrible things in process and an ultimate decline that will not allow future people to wield that kind of power from

the seat of government he's still in. Same thing is that you would be horrified at what would come of that, but it would also mean that all the charts go down for this country. Right. And Israel has a much more brittle infrastructure and empire and culture, quite frankly. It's more on the verge. I mean, the fault lines are, I mean, you got police kicking the shit out of Heredi people on the,

on the street, you got the Ashkenazi Mizrahi Rift, you've got, you know, if the Palestinians all left tomorrow, the Israeli Jews would eat each other alive within, 100% months. That's how fucking volatile is.

But they did make the show in treatment. That's so true. Well, they made the Israeli version. I don't know what that's called, but then they adapted it to America with Gabriel Bern. I like Gabriel Byrne. I thought it was a good show. Yeah.

So there's, you know, it's... As far as the culture, I'm just talking about the culture. As a culture, Dave, there's a lot of good things about Israel. They invented the cherry tomato and they invented, you know, the iconic pedophile show Euphoria. So, yeah. Oh, yeah. Is Sam Levinson or whatever his name? It was based on, I believe it was based on an Israeli show first.

That's all. I didn't even know that. Did you guys see that clip of the Fowda creator at the 90s? 92 second second street why talking about when people ask him that we should use more Palestinian actors and writers on the show to make it more balanced

he's like we are an Israeli show I am a Zionist if the Palestinians want to make their own show they should do that we have our culture just proudly and you know fucking upper west side crowd gives them a big round of hooting hollering applause 92

street why they just said you can't speak here, right, if you're protesting Israel? Yeah, I mean, is that right? I signed a boycott for them, like, forever ago. They're done. God awful. They're cooked. Yeah, there's a, always

a, you know, a lot of great clips come out of there, so. A lot of schmuli Botayak. Yeah, it's sort of, it's like they, they took a story, New York cultural institution and turned it into like the physical instantiation of the translate from Hebrew button.

Right. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It sounds like a good idea on paper, but it's not. Yeah, once you hit that button. All right. And the last one I will read is from Havivaretigur with the hard R.

Well done. Quote, but Ben Gavir definitely washes away the murderous, eternal. What's this word? What? Mukwama? Mukawama? Good on you for being so clever. This is it.

This is him, by the way, talking about, this is a quote tweet from, what's the name of this account? Zaid. Jalani. Jalani, yeah. This is it. This is the campaign in a nutshell

when you point to the nature of Israel's enemies as a possible explanation for some significant part of Israeli behavior. The bigots always, always acknowledge the point they know. But Ben-Gavir, as through decades upon decades of genocidal rhetoric, genocidal intentions and genocidal action against Israeli Jews might not have played some slight role in forging Israel's Ben-Govir's. As though Ben-Gavir himself, in his worst, most racist moments ever, said or did anything half as evil, As the routine rhetoric and behavior of the Ayatollahs.

Yeah, the rhetoric is very bad. Is it routine as well, the rhetoric? Yeah. Rhetoric and behavior of the Ayatollahs of Hamas and Hezbollah, of heroes lionize among so many Western elites. Ah, the Western elites, they love Hamas. Alas, none of this matters with the likes of Zayed, we're speaking into a vacuum.

They don't want to understand. They're not here to teach or learn or solve. anything. It's not about justice or peace or even cold strategy. There isn't even an analysis here. It's just bigotry, the mindlessness of the self-satisfied bully. But you know, Ben Gavir, case closed. Isn't all this just responding to people saying, this guy's fucked up? Like, all the tweets you said like Pierce Morgan, it was just saying, wow, this is disgusting. And it's just the essay by the end is, they're so lost in like this. labyrinth of what they're trying

to message to people that they've... So in conclusion, like, you never should have said that, you know, whatever was in their mind, but I'm pretty sure all everyone was saying was that that guy is evil. Right. This is what Havrivedegger does, and he does it. I have to give him again, I have to give him not credit,

but I have to sort of point out where he's skilled, where others aren't. He's mastered the tone of the snarky, um, understated, owning of idiotic rivals. He's got the format down.

The content is completely empty and nonsensical and ass backwards and completely dishonest. But he does it with this tone that appeals to the Western elites that he pretends to deride. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's almost like being woke scolded by like a, you know, like a Hitlerite. You know what I mean?

You're just like, everything you're saying is in the tone of, you know, an NPR person. Well, that's how you get... Welcome to the Dare Stronger Podcast, Ontario. Yeah. I was thinking of that the other day, you know, like a gag like that with just completely supplanting the aesthetics and the sound, just with like raw mind-comf stuff.

Right. I'm sure it exists. I'm sure it exists in Israel. But like the middle there where as far as content not matching up with the form, nothing, nothing Ben-Gavir slash, you know, I suppose his political project of exterminating people in Gaza and Lebanon now has done is as bad as the routine rhetoric from the Ayatollah. Now, I'm sure this is one of those guys who was peddling the numbers of like Iran killed a million of its own people in one weekend.

50,000 and then it goes up to 60. And it's like, you know, for what I could tell. And I don't want to be glib about any of this stuff like, you know, more reliable numbers say several thousand but but not more not not not 20 not 30 not 40 certainly not 50 or 60 but they have to say it's 50 or 60 because then they can say when Israel was killing 50 to 60,000 people you call this genocidal yeah so I assume that's what that's about but yeah and also when he says that like you know Israel is face genocidal actions and face genocidal rhetoric and so forth.

And I'm like, oh, that's interesting. Once the action of genocide has been done to you? Well, I'm just like, what's the evidence? Because, like, I've seen a lot of rubble and Arabs crawling out of it. I ain't seen so much of the Jews, you know, just one man's take. It just will show you October 7th footage over and over and they'll tell you this was an attempt, attempted genocide.

and it is a way of trying to deflect criticism that they get of being genocidal. It is like very clearly We were talking about this in the interview we just did know where it's like it's, I don't want to lean too much on this idea, but they're really good at taking things they've done and saying that's what

everyone else is doing. 100%. Iranian nuclear program is secret and undercover and they don't have any right to do it and they're stealing secrets from other countries in order to achieve it. That's what Israel to get their nukes. Oh, I'm sorry, you're saying, like, there's an international network of people coordinating with this foreign government to influence, you know, democratic societies. But it's cutter.

Into, you know, purchasing arms and, you know, entering into commercial relationships and perhaps blackmail, whatever. Yeah, Iran. That's Iran. Yeah, that's Iran. Get it fucking straight. Are they still doing the cutter stuff? Are they still being like, cutter is the protocols actually?

Yes. 100% yes but they have to dial it back a little bit because Kotter is like I mean because obviously all these Gulf Arab countries in some level already deal with Israel in some form or another into varying degrees with Israel right now it's like a lot of the anger that they have like the full bore of it it's just at Washington like they're mad at they're like they're not look they don't have cutter to kick around anymore like they're they're they're speaking up cutter and kicking around I've got I've got beef with that country but not for

the same reason. Those motherfuckers, in their match against Canada, in my hometown of Vancouver at BC Play Stadium, where I saw the Rolling Stones at age 14, those motherfuckers were down 3-0. And then one of their players broke the leg of one of the Canadian stars. Canada went on to win 6-0, but the guy has the broken leg is not going to play in the rest of the tournament. So, fuck you go drink some Tim Horton's about it, you freaking losers.

Go have some puteen. And not to, you know, you from Canada, that's fine. But not to play, like, this shouldn't be a competition. But I want to remind you that while anti-Israel protesters get police protection, Sean Fucked was forced to perform in a field. That's right. We're not a perfect country, okay? We're not perfect.

Everyone's into, I know the Knicks and World Cup. It's all fine. But like, sports are one thing, but this is like real stuff that's happening. Hashtag protect fucked. Get fucked out of there Yeah, yeah, yeah, help fucked Um Yes

I am fucked I am just we fucked Yeah Just we fucked Oh man So moving on I don't can you jot that down please Yeah

Before we get out of here Just I want to read a couple of things From one of my favorite posters on there You know There's a lot of people like we said, mastered the form of speaking as a liberal,

but the things they're actually saying are genocidal. There's an exception to that. Another Canadian, I believe. Isn't he Canadian, Daniel? Am I crazy? Adam Lewis Klein. He certainly studies... He's at Miguel.

He's at Miguel. I don't think he's Canadian. But he's from Seattle. Oh, okay, even better. Well, Pacific Northwest. Which will someday be part of Cascadia. That's right. We all know that.

I just want to read some shit that he wrote recently that just I... I'm sorry. You don't need to make it a long bio, but I don't really know who this is. I'm, despite my joking around earlier, I'm not online. I'm not reading Twitter. So, so just a one little slug. Who is this guy? Okay. Adam Lewis Klein is a PhD student in anthropology at McGill. And he is one of the founders of, or one of the main spokespeople for the movement against anti-Zionism, the anti-Zionist movement. Yes.

And he, his skill, he's got several skills. He's developing some new ones. The one that Matt's going to show are sort of a new genre for him. He's a very specific set of skills. Very specific. Yeah. Liam Neeson-style. But what he loves to do is to, he's a reply guy, but he doesn't reply with arguments or text or even jokes.

He just replies with random, usually ungrammatical, non-sequent. memes. I don't know if you have any of those on hand, Matt. It's hard to describe them. Would you call him a little epic in his style? You know what? No. He also is like one of the more clear AI posters of like he'll post like wall.

Like I to me, the only reason I know him is because he's one of those guys who's like, he's, you know, his face is his avi. So you just like, it's like, uh, jump scare, blue check. Okay. but he also does these like wall of text posts that are like meant to be like it's clearly like he's like he's like telling like chat gbt give me what a leftist would say about why zionism is cool okay and and it's like why anti-zionism is in fact traceable to some kind of malign history of of why it's hate speech his ultimate one the ultimate, the most tautological thing I've ever seen ever. And he'll drop it anywhere. Like, Mouin Rabani will post something about Lebanon or Iran, like some analysis of anything, or me or Matt,

or just really anyone who's in his rolodex of people who ate him or people who ignore him. And then next thing you know, you've got one of these memes, and then he'll just say, L-O-L, Matt. Oh, here we go. Is genocidal. And he loves to throw around how anti-Zonism is genocetal. It's kind of the Elon school a little bit is like saying, I'm detached, L.O.L.

And here's a meme that I think is sort of like speaking everything I need to say about this. Yes. With a progressive academic. Yeah, I see. I'd call him sort of maybe a more deranged infographic BuzzFeed guy. And this is one that he sent to me. He's like he's Montreal-Dad defiant, basically. He wrote,

anti-Zionism is anti-Zionism harasses libeles, gas, lights, abuses, mocks, murders, vandalizes, desecrates, denigrates, erases, stalks, dockses, ethically cleanses, genocides, Jews, and Israelis. Those are all sheds, Adam.

Yes. What is the blue circle? That, I don't know. It's just there. It's just there. And Brennan, his... It's like a button you're supposed to press that makes you not anti-Zionists.

And he breaks a button and the pellet comes out and then you eat the pellet and then you make another meme. And as you can see, at the core of this is this tautology that he thinks is amazing. Because what he's saying is, we don't need to call anti-Zionism anti-Semitic anymore. I see. It's bad enough. What it is is what it is.

And what it is is. Well, many a genius have opted for this because Ayn Rand's famous formulation was A is A. That was one of the foundations of objectivism. as she said A is A, which was a very, very brilliant attempt that people like you or me can't possibly understand of her trying to establish objectivism is dealing in reality, unlike other philosophies. A is A. Profound. In this case.

Ant Zionism is anti-Zionism. Anti-Zionism. Yeah. But the difference is, one is blue and the other is red. Red is bad. So that's important. Why is it also the cover, the blue, red white and blue? That's kind of weird as well.

Is he trying to say something with that? I would say that if you think he's trying to say anything. The real question is, and this is a lot of people pointed out, is that the eyes are not lining up here in the center. A lot of people who are graphic designers will see that. We'll watch. We'll read his shit and they will have many strokes as they're trying. This was designed actually as visual torture. Yes, for anyone who is an actual artist.

Yes. Well, you say torture. Wait, can you just put it back up? You say torture. I notice torture isn't in here, by the way, but it should be. That's true. I want to get to what he just said today or whatever, but for a second I was like, what's the logic with like this? Is he trying to say it starts with harassment, then libel, then at the end you get ethnic cleansing genocide. But there's murder right in the middle before you even get to vandalize. I think before you even get to stock. And he buries the lead, the most egregious crime, the crime of crimes, to erase. Right, yeah, exactly. Yeah, erasing is bad.

I mean, I'm interested in stocks. Stocks is pretty bad. I don't like that. But the fact that murder is like in the middle tier, or at least is like the way you're reading it is an escalation and you just breeze past murder. For a second, I think he was going to do alliteration. That's what happens.

Yeah. This guy is, your brain can't comprehend this sequence. He is a stream of consciousness genius. Yeah. He's like a Frank Zappa of... Totally, absolutely. Of propaganda.

And he sometimes will, you know, for the most part, he just tries to woke scold people and be pro-Israel from the left. And it just reads as, you know, incoherent. But then sometimes... And the Atlantic, I just remember it, the Atlantic just published him. We haven't done it as a reading series, but the Atlantic, and his tweet was like, as a left-wing Jew, I was very proud. As a left-wing anti-Zionist, I was very proud, excuse me, as a left-wing anti-Zionist, I was very proud to be published in the Atlantic. The nice thing about his style is it all rolls off the tongue. That's right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's very clear. Hey, he would have been great, too, in the Truman era where he could have said it's progressive to be, to be colonizing. He longs. He longs for that era. So he, you know, tweets shit like, you know, anti-Zionism is anti-Zionism and everyone goes, what? But then sometimes he will tweet out, you know, text his own thoughts. And I'm just going to read you a few of them.

Israel is the center and origin of Jewish destiny. and it seems of the world itself, a truth that Israel's enemies only reinforced through their endless fixation upon it. Just as God placed the sun at the center of the solar system, he placed Israel at the center of human life on earth. In the core of the planet? Yeah, I guess it's in the middle, dude. If only, if only. Maybe someday.

Yeah, past the mantle. The land of milk and magma. Yeah. This cannot be changed. It can only be accepted. One can struggle against the source of life or like a plant, draw from it, grow, flourish,

and take one's place within creation. Thank you, Lewis Klein of Borg. I'm really glad to hear that that guy's getting published in the Atlantic. I mean, it's fantastic. Total psychopathy. He hit the Sephiroth button for you. sure on that one.

I mean, maybe that was part of the AI prompt or whatever, but that is literally, I think, dialogue from Final Fantasy 7 in which a meteor is going to cleanse the planet, except his meteor is real, I guess. I guess, and it's a good, it's a good meteor. And it's a good thing, but that's why he's such a twisted villain. And he needs to get to the center of the planet. And these humans are mindlessly,

irrationally fixated on this meteor that's going to destroy them. That's right. So he's a student, though? Which just proved the meteor is right. So I just want to get back to like, He's a student. So why the fuck does anyone in the Atlantic want to publish him? I mean, the way I look at it is, my angle on his, he's being a student is that it's crazy to me because he already knows everything.

I feel like he has nothing left to learn at school. In fact, he has a lot to teach schools about science. I mean, of course, I answer my own question asking why the Atlantic would want to publish him. But I just mean like it, but this is what you guys are probably always talking about is that the, the, decline and the degeneration of the quality of this stuff. I remember the first, you know, the first thing I noticed with Hamas is ISIS. Remember that? Oh, yes. That was a chestnut. I was just like, they're not, they've lost the fastball. Yeah. Like the Israelis used to be able to, if nothing else, sell this stuff, package it. Easily. We would, again, we were just talking with

the turbulence podcast about the way that Netanyahu actually was, one of the guys who did this after the Cold War was over, Israel needed new terms and sort of buzzwords to describe the utility, not the moral quality or whatever, but the utility or the nature of the U.S. Israeli relationship that was outside of anti-S.-Soviet, anti-communist pro-democracy. So there started to be a lot more Judeo-Christian stuff. And democracy not as an opposition to Soviet models, but as this like end of history thing that only Israel could really deliver in the Middle East. And it's like that was what they were good at. And now you just have whatever that was. And it's not even that Israelis can no longer tap into the mindset of like, Haspara is supposed to be

for the world. It's supposed to be external facing. And, you know, but an Abba, Eban, whatever you want to say about him, had some, some Riz. He had some skill, you know, he was erudite, he was cosmopolitan. He understood how to speak to the prejudices and biases of the people he was trying of propagandas. Now you've got North Americans like Adam Lewis Klein. That's right. That's right.

You know, the D. Lewis Klein of propaganda who can't even like their brains are so fucking fried from trying to do this. Well, it's because they are,

they for the last three years have only been talking to each other and only been consuming media that's for their particular narrative.

So that's how you get anti-Zionism is anti-Zionism and anyone thinking like, oh, that's based or good job. That only works if you are steeped in this shit. And someone was saying this the other day about a completely different area of human experience, obviously, but like how some of the disappointment in a lot of current film or literature or whatever is that there's a trap where if people just start watching one thing, and then they want to grow up and they want to make their own art and it's just kind of reiteration of that one thing. It's very different from, you know, whatever poets or artists or filmmakers were omnivorous

and then started to make something that became a blockbuster, you know, style or form that then everyone else just kind of forewent everything that they, that those artists used and just started eating the main meal from a Spielberg or from a, you know, a Bowie or whatever. With this, it's like if all you, you've ever eaten and consumed is even the original erudite propaganda and the people who are really safe and just reinforce and comfort you, you're going to churn out and the next generation

or the next next next of next generation is going to churn out only degraded and regurgitated versions of that that doesn't work because it's like inbreeding. It's like you're fucking up the DNA of it. Right. And sorry to anyone. No, that's so insightful. Who's inbred out there. I didn't mean to offend them. They're running on fumes. Yeah. So a guy like that, I mean, maybe he's not even writing half of it, as you were saying. He's AI adjacent.

But he has to be because his diet has consisted of just that thin gruel for so long. Absolutely. And I've been watching, you know, his decline for a while now because I find him so fascinating. You know, his attempts at sort of making these mainstream-looking. infographics and then the content of the infographic itself is insane. That was the pun I was trying to make Adam. Thank you. And what's great is that he does not know how to respond normally to anyone now. Now he is completely just, yeah, been surviving on these fumes.

Here's a response that he had to someone who responded to that insane tweet about the sun. someone wrote Abraham was from Iraq, you're from Europe Zionism didn't exist until the 19th century Make it make sense And he wrote, keep pretending the sun isn't there But its light scatters the darkness of night And the dawn comes

And there's nothing you can do to stop it He's kind of reverse Bain He's talking like Bain But he wasn't born in the darkness I was born in the sunlight. Exactly. You were only whatever raised in it. Yes, exactly.

You merely adopted the sunlight. You merely adopted frolicing in an open field. I was born in it like a bunny. The reverse bane is, I think it's kind of powerful. It's an idea. It's a risk. Last thing that he wrote that I just really loved, Daniel, you kind of alluded to him making this article.

in the Atlantic. We're not going to read it, but someone posted this. So he wrote, I'm pleased to share an essay I wrote for the Atlantic. So left-wing Jew supports universal human rights, yada, yada, yada. And then someone, this guy, Dan Sheehan,

posted the insane son tweet and wrote, if you thought the Atlantic reached its reputational nadir with the publication of Grahamworms would, is it possible to kill children legally as long as their Arab peace? Or the continued employment of David Frum? Here's who Jeffrey Goldberg is platforming this week, to which he wrote,

this is an anti-Jewish response. So shout out to, I truly, there's something about this guy that excites me. He has a fresh sound. He does, he does, though, straight up. Like, it's, I guess it's, I'm just so tired of the ISIS, Hamas's ISIS crowd. and watching someone who's slowly, yeah, turning into a Final Fantasy 7 villain is like, I don't know, it's exciting to me. Well, being able to create a new genre, like, I, you know, every few years I write off hip-hop. I think, okay, hip-hop is dead.

No more innovation. And then, you know, Kendrick comes around or cloud rap, you know, and I hear it. I'm like, or even like Coke rap. And I'm like, wow, they're doing new things, new sounds. I gave up to something. The whole premise of our podcast is that, you know, Hasbara is in its end times. It's gasping. It's coughing. It's wheezing. Well, in terms of effectiveness.

You get climb rap. Right. It's it's invigorating. It is. And it just, you know, breathe new life into, you know, this, what has become a stale existence for us here at the bad. Well, does that not sound like a little thing I like to call the sun? Oh, shit. You know? Oh, God. giving you energy in life when you were, you know, been, been wilting on the vine.

We could grow from it like... We could grow from it like plants, dude. Anyways, but that's this podcast. And you guys have a great podcast that we want to plug for you. Thank you guys for coming on, Baddisfar, and talking with us. Thank you. Our pleasure. And if your listeners want to actually get the full mini-series, you got to go get it behind our paywall.

You got to go subscribe. You got to go to blowback. show, sign up for membership. You can download it. You get an ad-free archive of all of our other seasons as well. We have more stuff coming later this year and another miniseries next year. And just stay tuned. We'll be releasing information on our socials soon. But just check out Blowback. If you're just listening to Blowback on the free feed, it's like you're living in darkness. If you want to live in the sunlight, you have to subscribe to Blowback to get things like this miniseries. We're starting to do a lot more. It's only

going to be available to subscribers. Get in on the ground floor. Don't fuck this up. Don't fuck this up. And I do recommend everyone go back and listen to your your back catalog because every season, I don't think we describe the premise of the show, you guys describe another, and go deep, a deep history and full of primary sources and current interviews of some U.S. foreign policy in Brolio, some kind of fiasco, some kind of, you know, as suggested by the title, the, you know, the inevitability. of blowback. And we're in this moment where Hasbara is receiving new kinds of blowback,

but it remains to be seen what impact it'll have on whether elected officials in the U.S. will actually get enough shrapnel in the face to reconsider. I mean, this is a spicy moment for you guys to be covering, obviously, with the, I mean, it could be over next weekend, of course, but with the Trump, like you said, Israel's focusing all of its stuff on Washington now. That's not happened in a while. Yeah. Yeah. I hear they're trying to organize a big

side trans festival in the Negev Desert, but they're going to have a special guest. Don't do it. Outside the genre, Sean Facht is coming. Oh, damn. To do a special DJ set. Wait a minute.

I'm like, I feel like Kyle Reese. I have to get to this festival and rescue Sean Fubb at a really bad spot. Saving Private Ficked. I'm not really worried about it because I feel like you know, Israel is the one place on earth that cares about its citizens.

Probably. So thank you guys for coming on. The links to the blowback podcast and their members feed will be in the show notes. So click it. Subscribe, do all the things. And subscribe to our Patreon. Patreon.com slash bad hasbarra. Bathasbara.com for all your questions, comments, and concerns.

All right, everyone. Thanks again so much for listening. And until next time, from the river to the sea. don't let the sun go down on me I don't let Adam lewis client go down on me either yeah just we fucked just we fucked just we fucked

jumping jacks was us push-ups was us godma-gah us all karate us taking endless friends success