Bad Hasbara - The World's Most Moral Podcast - 214: Bialik You Can Be, with Rolla Selbak

Episode Date: June 30, 2026

Matt and Daniel welcome filmmaker and Bad Hasbara all-star Rolla Selbak to cruise through the campus jihad coming to a niche streaming service near you, Mayim Bialik’s parking spot Palestine palpitations, and Daniel’s toque-à-toque with Canadaland’s Jesse Brown.Please donate to Branches of Hope: bit.ly/branchesofhopeThe Visitor: https://www.thevisitormovie.com/Rolla Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cw/RollaSelbakOfficialRolla YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@RollaSelbakOfficialRolla IG: https://www.instagram.com/rollaselbak/?hl=enSubscribe to the Patreon https://www.patreon.com/badhasbaraBad Hasbara Merch: https://estoymerchandise.com/collections/bad-hasbara-podcastWhat’s The Spin playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/50JoIqCvlxL3QSNj2BsdURWhat’s The Spin Album List: https://bit.ly/whatsthespinlistSkad Skasbarska playlist: http://bit.ly/skadskasbarskaSubscribe/listen to Bad Hasbara wherever you get your podcasts.Spotify https://spoti.fi/3HgpxDmApple Podcasts https://apple.co/4kizajtSubstack https://substack.com/@badhasbaraSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/bad-hasbara/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Taco Salad for ourselves. Hello everybody and welcome to Bad Hasbara. The world's most moral podcast still. That's right. My name is Matt Leeb. I will be your most moral co-host for this podcast. Daniel Mate, as always, your second most moral or tied for first most moral co-host. Sometimes first, sometimes last, you know?

Neck and neck. That's right. You either win the moral race or you lose the moral race. There is no tie. I don't know what I'm saying. Shout out to producer Adam Levin on the ones and twos. He out here doing producer stuff. Shout out to editor Brent on the threes and fours.

The threes and fours for editor Brent. He is always crushing it, always working, always putting out clips, making people see this podcast. You know what I love about our clips is that sometimes they'll go viral on Instagram and nothing happens. That's right. Yeah, our numbers don't go up whatsoever. It turns out that people will discover a podcast on a different platform and go,

ha, and do nothing about it. Podcast listeners never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. You know what I'm saying? Honestly, I think that's true. I think that's true. We've offered them so many chances for peace, you know. We're trying to give you inner peace through our podcasts,

and yet you still resist. If only we had a partner for... We need a partner for subscription. That's right. You know, there's, we need a two-platform solution. And we have it for you. That solution is go to patreon.com slash bad as barra and join. If you join, you get an extra episode every week.

How wonderful is that? We had Ellie Valley, the cartoonist on on Friday. It was a really good episode. You should check that out. It was. I wasn't on it, but I got to listen to it as I as I drove toward the Port Angeles Washington ferry terminal to get to Canada. Yeah, yeah. I mean, listen, it would have been better had Daniel been on it, but, you know, we soldier on.

We, you know, stiff upper lip, we said, and we kept calm and carried on. And we still did a podcast despite having the heart and soul of it on a ferry somewhere or traveling. You are the heart and soul this podcast. you flatter me boy no it's true it's true people are like well what do you do Matt and be like um I don't know I'm the big red nose

on a clown you know what I am I'm the hand buzzer of the podcast I'll shake your hand but then you built the circus man you're that's true that's right I'm wringling and you you are my prized lion that I keep caged

for you know and I put my head in your mouth and I challenge you to bite it off So far, so good. Anyways, you can go to Patreon and join us, or you can also join us on Substack. We have an exclusive member-only feed there, too, or if you want to just watch all of the free episodes, you can watch them there, listen to them there. Same thing with YouTube. YouTube has memberships now.

So if you are someone who is stuck forever in a YouTube rabbit hole and you cannot leave the platform, well, you don't have to. Just go to YouTube.com slash at Bad Hasbara and join our member feed. You get, you know, the episodes and how wonderful is that? How wonderful is that? Just a reminder to anyone who is in L.A. or Pasadena on July 11th. That's a Saturday. Myself and my wife, Francesca Fiorentini, will be at the Ice House. The Ice House is a wonderful comedy club.

We're going to be doing stand-up. and we would love for you to come. So please, buy your tickets now. Ice House, Pasadena, do it, July 11th. Today's episode is brought to you by Branches of Hope. Branches of Hope is an interfaith fundraising effort to restore a sense of dignity among Gazans by helping meet basic human needs

while also supporting families as they try to rebuild their lives. Many have faced not only material loss, but also the emotional toll of continuous displacement, grief and deep, uncertainty. Their goal at Branches of Hope is to help restore both stability and a sense of self-worth. If you have any money and you are looking to give it to a good cause, please go to bit.ly slash branches of hope. You will find the link in the description. Do it now. It is a worthy

cause and it is money that is desperately needed. So please donate now. Daniel. Hey man. What's this band? Well, I've been on the road for over a week now and visiting a number of great record shops along the way, including Irving Place Records in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, amazing jazz selection, electric fetus records in Minneapolis, Minnesota, several really great stores in Bozeman, Montana, and just taking some of my favorites from the things I've picked up. This one's, first one's dedicated to Adam. some specials, man. Nice.

Yes. Skah. Right now, Adam's doing a little dance. Sort of like it. Is that first or second wave, Skah? You know, Brits, right? 1970s, early 80s. Look at these guys.

He'll let us know in the Kairon. Two-tone Skaw. Yeah. For you, Matt, this is a compilation. I don't know if it's on Spotify, but I think someone made a playlist with the individual song,

so hopefully you can make the playlist. It's called, Ship shop pop. Oh. The sound of Denmark Street, 1970 to 7.3. And I'll redo this. In the early 1970s,

songwriter is on London's Denmark Street created a new brand of airplay-friendly pop. Writers such as blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, made records that were built to whistle. You might hear them on holiday, sometimes just the once, in a cafe, a chippy, or an amusement arcade. Oh, a chippy, yeah?

Yeah. Oh, thank now that I called him, dad. It's two discs full of chip shop pop, I did take a quick listen to a couple. It's almost like a combination of like Baccarac and Yacht Rock meets the British sensibility of the early. Okay. So it is, it's a bunch of different artists.

Yes, it's a bunch of very little known, like not even one hit wonders. Okay, got it. One British radio hit wonders. Beautiful. So it's a compilation of them. For a second, I was just like, that's a, you know, a strange band name. but then again, England is a weird little island. So I don't know.

You know. Oh, no. Chip shop rock. Or is it Chip shop pop? Chip shop pop. Chip shop. Compilation. I like compilations of like very local niche sounds that you never hear anywhere else.

They always contain really cool little things. Anyway, then I got the Beetlejuice soundtrack by Danny Elfman. Okay. Great movie music. Yes, yes, yes. Is it both his scores and the songs? from the movie. So is there like, what's his name?

Deo is here. Deo, yeah. What's the name? Yeah, Ayo is here. But I think that's the only, there's one other Harry Belafonte song. Harry Belafonte, that's it. Yeah, yeah, jump in line, shake, shakes,

and girl is also here. Rock your body on time. Okay, I believe you. Yeah, that's a great ass song, dude. Okay, I'm reloading. That's the Scarface version. So a jazz record from an artist I've never heard of, I realized

I don't really have any jazz trombone players in my collection. And this guy, Grakhan Moncour the Third. Huh? I love that you, I realized that. I was thinking about all the different types of jazz. I got a jazz flute guy. I got a jazz mandolin guy. I don't have any jazz trombone.

I'm there in the store. I pick up this record. I'm like, who's he? What does he play trombone? Oh, I don't have any trombone players. What's so elaborate about that? It's just very funny to me. Just the things that, you know, exist in your mind that don't.

The things that exist in my mind. Enter the Bowen Zone. So this guy's, I don't know how his name is pronounced, Gratchin, Grakken, Moncour the Third, playing with some great, great other players, including Lee Morgan and Bobby Hutcherson, but the album's called Evolution. I'm looking forward to checking it out.

Sick. The Meat Puppets, who I haven't heard of in forever, they were featured heavily on which famous unplugged album, Matt? Do you remember? Oh, it's got to be Nirvana. That's right. They did three covers of Meat Puppet songs on there from.

what I remember. Anyway, this is their album. Which ones were the puppets? Which ones were the covers? Lake of Fire, I think. Plateau. Plateau, yeah. Something else.

But like, he really leaned into their stuff there. So this is their album, Huevos. Wow. Eggs. And finally, I like the name of this. I think you'll like it too. It's called Feeling You Up by the group Truly. Feeling You Up is what I did to you every night

in Kaman when I would sneak into your hotel room. That's right. Well, you wouldn't so much sneak as I would leave a bed of, you know, rose petals leading directly to my door. Yeah, well. And candles. But I guess it was sneaking. We were both more conscious than we admitted.

Yes, that's right. Cut this, Brett, cut this. So yeah, this group is apparently made up of members of screaming trees from Seattle and also the founding bassist of Soundgarden, Hero Yamamoto, is in this group, and I'm looking forward to checking it out. It's apparently a cult classic from 1997. So those are the six records that I chose for today's spin.

I love it. That's what's spinning in the Mate household right now while he is on the road again, Willie Nelson style. Now it is time for us to introduce our guest. Speaking of again, because again on the road again, Speaking of again, I'm a good host, we are having a guest who is a returning Bad Hasbara champion, one of our absolute favorites. Up there with the most, like in terms of who's been on the show the most times, I think this one is up there in terms of.

We say repeating champion or return champion for someone who's coming back for a second time, but we're talking about this might be the fifth or sixth appearance. Yeah, Rola might be our most returning guest that we've had. So this is basically the third unofficial co-host of this podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, everyone else, welcome back to the podcast, Palestinian filmmaker Rola Selba. Hey, Sala. Salam, Sala, salams. How you doing, Rola? I am so good.

So beautiful to see your faces. Walla, wala. If I tell you, and I say this all the time, but I swear, I swear, the, the, The amount of joy that you bring to us, like, who try to keep going, it really, well, it really is a food for the soul. So thank you so much. I also want to know where I am in the circus now that I'm like the official like third host. That's right.

So let's see. We're not selling peanuts. I'll tell you that much. No, absolutely not. No. If I'm the Ringland brother and he is the lion, you, you know what? You might be, let's say, there's got to be a. something better than clown? I'm not going to say clown. You know what? I'm not going to say,

my laugh, my laugh. I think, I think that's fine. You're up on the trepeze. You're doing, you're doing acrobatics. There you go. There you go. I love it. I love it. You're doing acrobatics. You're flying over the audience with amazing ease. The Lion of Judah tamer. Oh yeah, I like that. That's right. I'm also just super quick because I wanted to to since you guys are like friends. I'm having an existential crisis. If you notice I'm not wearing my glasses, I think I want my glasses the first two times.

The reason why is someone online recently called me, they said that I look like Barry Wise. What? And I swear it wasn't an insult. It was more of a question. They said like, wait, dot, dot, dot, dot. Is that Barry Wise?

Look, look, look, look, look, look. Wait, let me see. Look, look. No. Oh, Oh, no. Not even close. Hold on, but I am going to look up, oh, man, no, you don't.

You don't. First, I'm going to start off by saying you don't. All right? It is very important that you know that you don't. Okay? So if anyone says that, they are being racist, first of all. And second of all, they're being problematic. But I will say I am putting up a,

Oh, dang. I just want to see. But you don't. No matter what this picture shows, you absolutely do not. Just so you know, you don't. Thanks, Daniel. No, you don't look like her. I'm taking my glasses up.

I mean, barely. I mean, not very much at all. I mean. Only in that you're both human. Only in that you're both belong to the human race. Well, I'm already regretting this. Well, I'm already regretting this. Well, never listened to online comments.

I've stopped reading them. because I just You should You and Barry should each You and Barry should each ask your wives If they agree That's right Exactly

I'm telling you right now Embarrassing You do not look like her You do not look like her Wear your glasses and never read comments The comments are there To drive you crazy Like a thorn in your brain

Driving you mad I have a much more serious accusation To level it you roll it Oh. Oh, dang, what? Here we go. Let's try to phrase it as a question. How is it that we've known you for almost three years now, and you're a Palestinian filmmaker?

And yet somehow we had to go and make our Palestinian film debut in some other guy's movie. How come you haven't been casting us? That's right. I'm assuming you're aware of our upcoming film debut in Russell Gondon's Occupational Hazards. Yes. How come we're not making our... debut in a Rolla Sellback film. You know what's so freaking funny about that is, I swear, first of all, Bassel And Doer is an amazing filmmaker. Second of all, I can't wait to see both

of you in it, occupational hazard. The same producer, Rola Nasir and Imaginarium, are producing Maya coming film, The Visitor. So I was very well aware of this film. I did not know both of you were cast until I saw Daniel until I saw your Instagrams in Jordan. Okay. But Walla, if you believe me, the first versions of the script had two separate Jewish, Israeli characters, okay? And I had both of your name, and I might actually snapshot this, and I had both of your names on the list. As revisions happened, we were changing some of the characters around because of the feedback, but I swear to God, both of you.

That's what happens when you do revisionist anti-Zionism. That's right. You're doing revisionism. But Wahiat Allah, if you believe me, both of them. of you, separate characters were at the top of the list. And I might even snapshot it and send it to you guys so you see in the Google Doc revisions. That would be great. Incredible.

Yeah, I would love to see that. And I also love the idea that during revisions, they were just like, what are we doing with these guys? Get these characters out of here. It's like the opposite story of Basel where he was just like, he had one character that he kind of split into two characters because he's like, you know what? Why don't we have you guys do this as sort of a duo? And, yeah, you know, sometimes...

We suggested to them that you might be able to cover more of the spread if you show two different brands of settler supremacy. One more kinder and gentler, which Matt played, and one with a Kippe and a pistol like me. That's right. Dang. Oh, my God. I actually can't wait. Can't wait for this.

Same. Same. Well, speaking of movies. Can't wait to see yours, too. Yeah. Yeah, seriously. I'm very excited about that as well. But speaking of movies, Daniel and producer Adam both warned me beforehand that I was not allowed to watch or read what was going to happen in this next segment in which we talk about a movie from filmmaker, I believe, am I wrong to say, a recently disgraced filmmaker, Jonathan Majors?

He's not a filmmaker. He's an actor. He's an actor, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The producer of the film that's coming out that we're going to talk about is Ben Shapiro. Oh, okay, great. This is a Daily Wire film that Jonathan Majors is making, is working his way back from disgrace, as disgraced actors often do,

by appearing in a Daily Wire-funded new film. And he was going to be the next big Marvel star. He was canceled for beating the shit out of his girlfriend. I have to say, when I first encountered Jonathan Majors, it was in The Last Black Man in San Francisco, which is one of the most beautiful movies I've seen in the last 10 years. And his performance in particular,

I was like, who is this guy? He's going to be an enormous star because he was so quirky and sensitive. And this is before he beefed up. Right. Marvel really did something to him. Right. Like he got all steroidal.

It's called steroids, yeah. In The Last Black Man in San Francisco, he plays this quirky, weird, almost performance artist, playwright who's trying to make sense of a very upsetting and complicated reality and puts on this one-man show that's in the last person I would expect to turn into a roided out yeah rageaholic Hollywood star who beats his spouse kumel didn't beat anybody up and they still took his movie away yeah that's right that's what happens man quirky quirky comic actors don't take the roids man you'll i really don't understand it like listen i i i want to be strong

I want to be hot. We all know this. I pray. I pray for it. But I'm not going to get roided up for it because then I will lose the best thing about me, which is my wonderful personality, the whole thing where I don't beat anybody up. Then you can't play the good-hearted settler. That's right.

Then I can't be the good-hearted settler. I can't be too strong. The settler with a heart of gold. That's right. The settler with a heart of gold that he has collected from other family. I'm just kidding. Also, it would be so embarrassing if you got roided up and Francesca could still kick your ass. I know.

Especially. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. My money's on Francesca to be there. Every time. Every time. I live in fear. Her rage is not synthetic.

Yeah, exactly. No, that is straight from the heart. That's straight from her Italianness. Exactly. So anyway. Yes. This movie. You know, Jonathan Ragers is in his taking gigs from the daily wire.

film studio part of his career. Sure. And we will show you the trailer, just so you can get the visual world of it, but it's not even going to come close to depicting the craziness that this movie is. But let's just watch the trailer and kind of describe it visually because it's mostly visual. And see what we can glean about it from the visual language. We have a terror warning in Northern Virginia. Radical Islam has designs.

All right. So we're starting with a news montage. Always good. Yeah. Always good for a trailer. To start with a news montage from Fox News just so you can get... Where Marco Rubio is the second talking head talking about radical Islam has a design. Yeah.

This is what we call. If you have to do an exposition dump in a trailer like this, then it's the movie itself. It does not bode well. But here we go. The FBI courted a terror plot on New Year's Eve. Violence attack over the alleyway. People marching. Protests on college campus is showing no signs of stopping.

Oh, no. Flag on campus. Was that ISIS? That was October 7th. That was Noah Argamani or whatever her name is. And then that was 9-11 right after that. Yeah, 9-11, but they also keep flashing the ISIS flag over and over. So a lot of clearly and obviously related things.

Yes. Okay. There's a black flag waving with Arabic on it. Can you see what that says, Roland, in Arabic? Yeah, I think it says, la el-a-allah in like cartoon font. And then, yeah. Yeah.

Lahila illah, right? Yes, there's no God but one God. I know. I just want everyone to be impressed that I know that. And then... There's no God but one God. Well, you impressed me. Muhammad al-Rasulah.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, Muhammad al-Rusul-A-law. Yeah, perfectly. There's no God but God. And don't you dare translate God Allah into any other language? Because we're talking about a completely different God. It's a bad god. It's an evil god. It's not like the good god that it's not like like pay no attention to the fact that Allah and Elohanu sound exactly the same. No, we're talking about our guy. Yeah, this is bad god. Bad god's bar. So zoom out from that flag. Oh my God. We're on the campus of Lawton University. Lotton University. A bunch of guys.

Pull out towels, mats, Harper, Virginia, present day, and now they're on the ground praying. Other students are running away. Infidels. Infidels. Oh my God. Run, hide, fight. Infidels is the name of it. Coming soon.

Yo. Or already. Oh, that's my name for. Wait, no, that doesn't. Guys, that doesn't work. You can't say coming soon or already here. You have to, if it's a movie, then is it here or is it coming soon? That is, guys.

This movie is going to be so true to life, Matt. You're not going to be able to tell it's a Daily Wire movie. Yeah. Had it not been for that part where it said Daily Wire at the end, I would have been, what is this, Spielberg? Written by Ben Shapiro or was it written by reality? Whoa. All right. So that's the visuals of it.

Thanks, Adam. We can borrow your Daily Wire Plus password. Excellent. Thank you. Thank you, Adam. Let's see what the synopsis says. Matt, you want to read this? You haven't read it yet. I want to hear your Unvarned's reaction.

All right. The log line was sent to the Hollywood reporter on Thursday, along with a shock-seeking teaser that caps a dark and violent montage with a pullback to reveal shot of the campus caliphate. Quote, when radical Islamic terrorists hijack a liberal colleges pro-Palestine encampment

to enforce barbaric Sharia law on students and execute infidels in a makeshift caliphate, a rag-tag band of red-blooded students, a security guard tired of, quote, Uncle Tom smears, and a Delta Force vet must arm up to save their clueless peers and keep America from surrendering to the enemy on its own soil. The logline reads. Oh, my God.

Let's just go through that piece by piece because it's got so much in there. Do you know the point of a log line? The log line is, Rolla, can you explain what a log line is? Is it not an elevator pitch? Yeah, yeah, it's meant to be like one sentence, two sentences at most that's meant to like, you know, yeah, just be a quick pitch of what the film is about. Yes, right. Yes. This is the longest.

This is like a treatment. This is like a long line. It's not the log line. It's the long line. This is the long line. Yeah. This is a treatment, bro. Okay, let's take it piece by piece.

When radical Islamic terrorists, hijackers. hijack a liberal colleges pro-Palestine encampment. Like, first of all, there's an admission there a little bit where they go like, well, there was good intentions with the pro-Palestine encampment, which is a funny, funny thing to concede. You know, I'm sure in the movie that they will admit all along that this was all a huge plot in order to do Sharia law. I don't know.

No, I think it can totally fit with their worldview that well-intentioned. Like, that's what Jesse Brown was trying to tell me in our. thing. I'm sure there are people who personally their intent is good, but unfortunately, when you join a hate movement like this, it inexorably leads to barbaric Islamic radical terrorists, forming a caliphate on campus and executing students who don't say the shahada. You know what's crazy? Honestly, I felt like the Azan part, like, first of all, they chose a beautiful voice. I'm like, wow, that was nice of you guys. And I didn't really, I mean, other than that like black flat, you know, that's supposed to be ominous, I didn't really see any, like, they're praying. I thought like at the end, they'd be like, you know, praying and then, da, da, da, da, da, da, ta, da, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, like shooting, you know what I mean? You didn't see the white kids running away in the distance? Oh, no, I didn't.

Oh, is that what you're doing? The minute they showed up and they pulled out their prayer mats, all of a sudden, kids scatter and they start running. The white kids ran. Okay, okay, okay, okay. I didn't see that. My Barry Weiss glasses are not strong enough. Okay, okay, I get it. I get it, I get it.

So then it says, yeah, hijacked liberal colleges, pro-Palestine, and camp, and enforce barbaric sharia law and students and execute infidels in a makeshift caliphate. Okay. What is a makeshift caliphate on a campus? I have no idea. I don't. And funny enough, like the beginning of that, that first paragraph, at the end of it, it says, the camp.

Calified? Like, what does the, what does that actually even mean? I don't know. And there's, okay, so I understand, I'm not saying it's right. I think it's, of course, it's ridiculous, but I understand at least premise-wise, the idea of, like, what if a campus got so radical Islamic that they enforced Sharia law? And they, like, changed the bylaws. And it's like, okay, I get, that's an insane premise. but then it's like enforcing Sharia law and executing people. So it's like, okay, now we're getting into sort of a legal battle. You know what I mean? It's one thing to be like, damn, they change the like college code of conduct

so that you have to dress modestly or you can't eat pork or whatever. But it's another thing entirely to be like, and then they execute the infidels. How much do you want to bet that in this movie the Democratic mayor or the Democratic government of the state is like, damn it, we can't go in there and, you know, free these kids by force. That's right.

You know, DEI law prohibits it. It's racist. They're just expressing their religion. That's right. 100%. I'm so curious who Jonathan Majors is in this log line. Oh, he's not even mentioned. I'm sure he's the security guard tired of Uncle Tom smears.

Yeah, yeah, that's it. And it'll be like, he's been just trying to mind his business. and do his thing, but he's just sick and tired of being told by POCs that he's, you know, down,

he's working for the man. Yo, it is crazy to call your lead actor and Uncle Tom in the log line. That is wild. Even if you're, even if you're disputing it within the log line,

it's like, did you just call Jonathan Majors in Uncle Tom? That's crazy, dog. That's crazy. insane. Dude. A rag-tag band of red-blooded students.

I really love the American conceptions that only right-wing Americans have red blood. That's right. And it also, there's a little bit of the assumption there that like the, as opposed to these like liberal Muslims who

are just not human beings. Like that's, that's essentially what they're doing. Yeah, but just this is so funny. They must arm their clueless peers to keep America. Who do you think plays the Delta Force vet? Oh, let's see. Who has been canceled recently?

If they were really smart, they would cast majors as both of them. They'd do them. Michael B. Jordan thing and sinners. Given the opportunity to really stretch out. Oh, yeah. Yes, just kind of like a reverse sinners. Yeah, is this? Jonathan Boyt?

Is that a thing? Oh, yeah. John Boy, yeah. Wait, what about, is this the same thing as the Army Hammer movie, or is Army Hammer doing a different movie? I think Army Hammer is doing something different, but he would be perfect for the Delta Force Vet Broke. Yes. Because I know Army Hammer, you know, he got canceled for some, I think he was like eating people or something. Or something, he was abusing women.

Let's not kick shame. It's okay. Let's not kick shame. You know, hey, whatever you want to do is fine. If you like to eat people, that's. And also, yeah, exactly. As long as you don't execute them on a. campus. Exactly. As long as you're not doing it muslimically, then I'm okay with it.

You know, it's crazy. Jonathan Majors jumped out. As long as you store them using Armandhammer baking soda. That's right. What were you saying, Roller? I was saying Jonathan Majors actually, I don't know if you saw like a headline like either last year a few months ago when he hurt, Jonathan Majors hurt himself jumping out a window. This was on this movie. It's on this movie, yes. Yes. Because they have somehow, you know, Daily Wire has millions of dollars to make a movie, but not enough to pay someone for either a stunt coordinator or someone to ensure the safety of their lead actor.

Yeah, he fell out a window. Crazy shit. Yeah. Yeah. So Army Hammer is an extrajudicial killer in his movie. Okay, that's great. That's good. So we got a lot of movies to go to.

Rolla as a filmmaker, is there, like, part of you that sees movies like this being made and do you like what how does how does that make you feel as someone who is a real filmmaker I suppose you know as opposed to well you know it did like any time anytime that there's a lot of money that's available for movies like this whereas a lot of money is not available for you know either movies or mine or other you know friends of mine who are trying to actually make you know other types of movies other than like tell real stories disgusting yeah Right. It does.

It does hurt. It does hurt. And it makes you feel, like I was telling someone the other day, like, I really feel the squeeze of us creatives. And I don't know if you all feel this way, like literally trying to share, you know, this $5 bill between each other, you know what I mean? Passing it on between each other. While this gargantuan trillion-dollar, you know, SpaceX type of wealth is being poured into

really disgusting projects like this Daily Wire 1 and like others. But on the other hand, it makes me so happy that billionaires are literally rolling in their sleep. They can't sleep at night and they have to spend all their money trying to, you know, move a ship that is immovable. It is going one direction. And so it makes me happy that they're trying. I'm like, good, spend your money. No one's going to watch this. And you know it's going to look like dog shit, Rol.

You know this movie is just going to have the most dog shit aesthetics. the worst acting, the most ex-girls, what's the word, ex-criable script, it's going to be just terrible. You know what the proof is? You're 100% right. The proof is they didn't use one frame of the film in the trailer. Yeah, that's a good point. Not one.

You have Jonathan Majors. You have that, the, that, that, not one? What is going on here? It is very strange, yes. Dude, the title, run, hide, fight, infidels. They couldn't even be creative enough to make it at least a little. different from the previous Daily Wire movie, which was called just

run hide fight. This is the second in that series. Oh, I see. So it's a series. They're trying to do a series of what if Muslims? What if something? I think the first one was what if school shooter something or rather. Yeah, what if trans?

What if Muslims? It's all the same fucking enemies that need to be extrajudiciously murdered. Fucking beautiful, guys. This is something I am very excited about not seeing it all. The run-hide fight versus a deep bench of mutants, yes. Just right here at the end of this, Hollywood report of this, is the premise is similar

to the 1984 Patrick Swayze favorite in which a group of Colorado teenagers work to defend their town from a Soviet and Cuban invasion. producer Dallas Sonier or Soniae touched on the comparison while speaking to page six this week quote, we all worship at the altar of John Milnes

or Millius and Red Dawn and Eastwood and all the other wonderful action stars of the 80s Stallone and Schwarzenegger nobody's making these types of movies anymore It's true, no comedies coming out in 2026, no time-traveling comedies coming out in 2026 have for

some reason randomly a moment where a character says, oh my God, they found me. I don't know how they found me, Marty, but they found me. The Libyans! The Libyans! We're not just inserting like random Arabphobic like boogieman villains into our films anymore just for shits

and giggles. Also, don't bring up Stallone in that. I'm sorry, but like, are we talking about Rambo? We're talking about First Blood? First Blood Part 2, I think, particularly. That's what I would assume. I mean, And yeah, but it's like you're also, I don't know if you miss the dedication to that first Rambo movie, but it was dedicated to the Good Fight of the Mujahideen. So I just, you know, important for people to know that. No, because they were our buddies back then against their Russians.

That's right, exactly. Did it really say that? Oh, did it really? Originally, yes. They've removed it from subsequent editions. Yes. Once the State Department printed out the new enemy. list. They were just like, all right.

Dedicated to, I don't know, let's say the Iraqis. You know, oh, shit, we got to do that. Al-Qaeda in Syria. Yes, dedicated to El Jilani. Adam says this is not true. It's an urban myth. Oh, is it? All right, fine. But you know what, Adam, let us have our, let us have our information,

our misinformation spreading time, okay? Hey, Daily Wire can have theirs. We can have ours. Right, we can have ours. We're just having some fun. Guys, thank you for showing me that. Thank you for show. That was, that was beautiful. We should move on to the next subject matter, which is that of something that happened once again with our wonderful co-host here, Daniel Mante. Daniel, well, for those of you who listen to this podcast, watch this podcast, you know that we did a full episode on Jesse Brown of Canada land. Jesse Brown, for those you don't know, Rola, if you don't know Jesse Brown, this guy is like probably, I would describe him as the, listen, I'm not going to call him the Ira Glass of Canada. what would you describe him as, Daniel, the who of Canada?

I think Ira Glass is a not unfair comparison. Very popular podcast. Yeah, but, you know, but, I mean, Ira Glass set up his podcast on side of, you know, on the legacy network of NPR, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, Jesse did something different. He started his own media company called Canada Land, the idea being that they were going to hold establishment Canadian media

more accountable. They were going to do much more confrontational adversarial interviews with people in power, do rigorous media analysis. And they did long form, they were pioneers actually in long form. And this is where the Ira Glass comparison, I think, comes in. But rather than this American life, which is more sort of whimsical, although sometimes serious, episode at a time stories. Canada land did long-form multi-part series on issues such as violence against indigenous people in Canada and residential schools. They did a series called Thunder Bay, which was an actually very beautifully done exploration of this town in northern Ontario on Lake Superior where there was an epidemic of missing and murdered indigenous teenagers. It turns out that

violence was being done by white people in the town, including people in the police department, and there was all kinds of scandals and cover-ups in local politics and all that. Really, really good investigative journalism and using the podcast form in innovative ways. He was an early adopter, I think, of sort of the long-form storytelling podcast format, especially with regards to journalism. You were once a subscriber to him and, you know. I was a supporter, yeah, yeah. I had the socks.

I had the T-shirt. Right. And, you know, the left in Canada, I would say, you know, I mean, I don't know about the left in Canada, but he was considered to be sort of this leftist media figure, someone who would critique mainstream, you know, news and do it from a perspective that I think a lot of people respected. Cut to October 7th, and all of that changes when his, you know, beat stops being about media critique and starts being about critiquing of independent. outlets and other media outlets who are trying to tell the story of what's happening in Gaza from a... And who aren't telling the real story, which is how scared Canadian Jews are. That's been his entire focus.

Now, I knew Jesse. We went to school together at McGill. He was friends with my roommate, visited my apartment many times. We were in class together. So there's this more than just me listening to his podcast and respecting his work. we have this you know we go back 35 years or so and um i like many people was very disturbed and ultimately amused but but you know but also disgusted with the turn he's taken since october 7th and uh you know we did an episode about him he got really mad at us because

he took uh something that i said in passing as a uh challenge for him to come on the podcast which I thought was really funny because this is what I said. I am not fundamentally against a crossover. I would like to talk to more people who are, you know, formally working, formerly worked for Canada land. And I'm not entirely against maybe, well, never mind. I was going to say talking to Jesse Brown, but I don't think you'll want to talk to us after today.

So that got taken as I invited him to go on the podcast. That's you throwing the glove down and saying, sir, I thumb my nose at you. Meet me on the common grounds at dawn. Bring your rapier. To be fair. And he demanded satisfaction. You did name the episode after him. Yes.

The Jesse Brown Christmas. It's the Jesse Brown Christmas special that we did. And. Yeah. So yeah, we, you know, got into a back and forth with him in which he sort of misrepresented, I think, what I was saying. And then, you know, the next episode, we issued a retraction or, no, a correction or clarification in which I said, no, that was not me actually inviting him onto the podcast. But Jesse wants to let everyone know he is not afraid to go on podcasts. and he has taken this not afraid to go on podcasting to a degree that's been insane.

He's criticized Katie Halper for not letting him on her podcast. And finally, it all kind of boiled over to a point where Daniel, you and Katie, we're talking, and you're like, I will talk to him. He just doesn't, this guy just doesn't understand that he doesn't just automatically get to be on whatever podcast he wants to. This is a comedy podcast, and I don't want someone who denies a genocide on this podcast, right?

And his whole thing is wanting to, of course, colonize other people's podcasts. But you... He thinks he should be allowed to go and fact-check anyone anywhere. Right. Yeah, at the time when he wrote to us, like literally three minutes after the episode dropped, there's an email in our inbox being like,

hello, Dan and Matt, you said that I wouldn't come in your show. I would like to come on and dispute that. I can be funny and hang with you guys too. We're like, no, you can't. And also, I said to him, I'd be happy to talk to you anywhere else. I don't think Matt's the guy to talk to. Matt's a comedian. He doesn't take you seriously. Matt was being glib. I just not on this podcast. It's crazy how narcissism is literally the common thread. Yes. Not everything is about you. What are you even talking about, man? Yes. Yes. So then what happened? Did you guys end up talking? So I ended up suggesting that him and I talk somewhere else, he completely ignored that. Multiple times I said

he didn't even respond to that. Then you fast forward a few months later, a few weeks ago, Samira Moyden, a friend of the show, was on Katie Halper's podcast. And they started talking him with Jesse and Samira let loose the way she does and did not hold back and said a bunch of pejority things about him and made some claims that he disputed about the relative safety of Jews in Canada and whether or not Jews are actually being hurt and false flags. And she said some things he didn't like about Orthodox Judaism's relationship to women because, you know, Jesse's the kind of person who'll go on CNN and talk about, you know, Sharia law and Muslims and such and such. So he writes to Katie and says, or no, actually he added, he quote tweeted or something on, on Twitter.

He basically wrote to Matt and Katie being like, Matt Lieb and Katie Halper of both disparaged me on their podcast. neither one will have me on. What are they afraid of? And so, and then he, I think he wrote to Katie and then Katie replied to him, look, you're not coming on my show to debate, Samira. Samira will either talk to you or she won't, but we're not doing that here. But if you want to talk to Daniel, I'm friends with him. Katie said, I know that I'm more ideologically aligned with Daniel, but I could be a good

moderator since I love telling Daniel to shut up, which is true. So you can be, you can be rest assured that it'll be best assured that it'll be balanced. And he agreed. He agreed to do it. And Katie hosted it and moderated it. But in the end, it didn't end up being much of a debate and she didn't have much of a role. And after we recorded it, she decided, you know what, this isn't actually a good fit for the Katie Alper show. I said, well, I'll put it out on mine. And also, Jesse had made a condition, made it a condition that he gets sent the raw files immediately after we're done. So in the event that it's not released or that only selected clips are put out he can counter it with the stuff. So she sent all that to him and she sent it to me.

Yeah. And then she announced, yeah, you know what? Or she told him, look, it's actually not going to come out of my channel, but you're free to do what you want with it. Dan is going to put it on his. That's very gracious, by the way. Very gracious of her. Yes. Katie was great about it. And of course, Jesse didn't like that. This is not what we agreed to. I think you're, because what Jesse was really up to, there's 10 minutes at the beginning that I didn't put out, that he's free to put out if he wants, where he basically just did a would-be fact check of everything Samira said or some of the things Samira said

and he sent Katie an email with a whole bunch of links and sources. Now, I was kind enough, courteous enough, to put all those links and sources in a single Google Doc and link it under the interview on my channel. So if people, you know, he really wants people to see that. He thinks that's the important thing to prove somehow that Samira was wrong.

People can go look at that. But that's not what I was doing there. I was there to have a conversation with a guy I used to know and to try to talk to him as one Canadian Jew to another about some broader issue. Gote style. Oh, he's Jewish as well. Okay, I didn't realize that context.

He's a Toronto Jew. And what's wonderful about it is this is now out. Jesse did get very mad the fact that he was not able to colonize Katie's podcast. In fact, he took to Twitter to be like, I'm exposing Katie Halper for censoring me. He wrote, I was invited. on Katie Halper's anti-Zionist podcast, but I guess it didn't go how she wanted it to. Anti-Zionism is a hate movement that collapses when scrutinized, and this is a bit from the email.

It says, hi, Jesse. Apologies for the delay have been slammed and only just sat down to edit the conversation. After watching it, I've decided it's not a good fit for my channel. To which, and that's where the screenshot ends. And then, of course, Katie saw this and Rhett wrote, Jesse, you don't have to guess why I'm not releasing it, I explain why in the message that you selectively screenshot. Also, you may want to include the fact that he clearly, you know, what's the word, sized the window so that it would cut out the start of the next sentence. He cropped it. Yeah. Yeah. Very intentional, obviously.

Yes, he did an intentional cropping so you wouldn't know there was more to that. You also may want to include the fact that Daniel is releasing it on his channel. And I sent you the files so you can release it as well. It's the worst cover up in history. Yeah. And now you see the rest of the email. After watching it, I've decided it's not a good fit for my channel. It ended up being more of a philosophical conversation

between two people who know each other personally, which really isn't what my show is about. And while I did interject a few times, my role as moderator was pretty limited. I've spoken to Daniel about it, and he is prepared to post it on his YouTube channel, and I'll let you two sort out the next steps, Katie.

So he's already doing the victimhood mentality thing, the I'm being censored mentality, which is just this insane thing that Zionists do. They can't help themselves, dude. They can't help themselves. They cannot. And you know what's crazy.

First of all, big shout out to Samara, who I love very much. Big shout out to Katie. Well, like, even in that showing, she's really gracious, very gracious in her communication. The fact that she let him have the files, that goes to show that's not what he was looking for at all. No, no.

And, you know, look, I can understand it. He really wanted to reach. her 460,000 subscribers. Yes, that's what he wanted. Right. And he wanted to say to them, you were lied to. Right. By your host, you know, and you should unsubscribe and join me.

Right. Yes. Which is, I think, I mean, it's all very disingenuous because of the fact that he is essentially going to say, oh, you shouldn't be watching this or you shouldn't be, you know, watching Bad Hasbara or you shouldn't be watching any of these anti-Zeruneration. his podcast because they get these facts wrong. Like here's, you know, he's, he tore into Samira's, you know, argument, which wasn't an argument. It was a conversation that she was having. And, and that is sort of the way he wants to present himself as the person who's telling the truth, just like every, you know, content creator out there. They're all, I'm the real truth, especially if they're a political creator.

The problem is, is that he feels entitled to it. and I thought it was really funny that that Katie was like, nah, never mind, I don't want this on my channel. But not because she wants to hide it, but because she's like,

no, it's my channel. You don't just automatically get to be on my channel because you throw a bitch fit about it. So I want to just play some clips from it. It's available right now on Daniel's channel all the way through. And there's just a couple of moments that I, the one moment I highlight.

it is my favorite, and then Daniel, you have one as well. Daniel, do you want to play yours first or should I start? You can start. And Rolla, I'll say, like, if you thought Katie was courteous, like, I definitely, I'm not, I don't know how much of a debater I am in the end. I was trying to find a way to have a conversation with someone. I was trying to have a good faith conversation. And I didn't, there's a lot of things he says that kind of flew by me.

And in retrospect, part of me wishes that I had. been more hard line in terms of like stopping every bullshit bad faith thing. But I think ultimately my macro approach worked because by the end of it, I was able to get him into a corner where things got revealed, I think, even if I wasn't, I wasn't challenging him on every single false point. This is not the Pierce Morgan show, okay?

No. So the Pierce Morgan show. And I'm not, and I'm not, and I'm not, and I'm not, Greenwald. Like,

that's a particular... Please. Can ask us super quick question, Daniel? Like, do you feel that? because you mentioned you had a personal relationship. You've known him for a long time. Do you think that that also made you give him even a little more grace

or made you like not be, because I wanted to act like, I wanted to set it up like in terms of what I wanted to feel like. I wanted to feel like two guys running into each other after a long time. And like, I didn't want to grandstand. I didn't want to put up on a performance.

I didn't want to do a, Mr. Brown, Mr. Brown knows him. You know, like I didn't want to lead with contempt. Now, we end up, end up, we end up talking about contempt in ways that I think are interesting. And people can decipher themselves which one of us comes off more contemptuous. Sure, sure.

The one who admits that he feels contempt for something or the one that wants to act like contempt is beneath him. Yeah. But I'm going to play. And that he's just objective. Yeah, but Matt, let's see what you chose. I'm going to play my favorite clip from it. And yes, this, a lot of these, this conversation reminds me less of a Pierce Morgan, you know, people yelling down. each other's sorts of debate and more of the conversations I was having with friends and people

who, you know, I once considered friends after October 7th where you, I am sitting there trying to understand, but I am also unwilling to, um, to not push back on, um, these kind of false ideas that they have. So here is, um, one in which he asks, and I believe you named the video, um, or the thumbnail after this, where he asks if he has any say in whether or not he's a Zionists. So here's that clip. I also, by the way, interspiced some musical theater in it. Sorry. Good job. Do I have any say on whether I'm a Zionist or not? Yes and no.

Okay, because a lot of people do use that just a Jew as a Zionist and a Zionist is a Jew. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Zionism is a... I assume that's not your position, that Jews do get to decide, right? Am I a Jew? Look at me. Am I a Jew? And I know that you're an anti-Zionist, so I assume. I just love Jesus Christ's I didn't realize that

when I was from Jesus Christ Super Yes Has not a Jew Anti-Zionist podcast Hatta do Jew hands So I do have a say then Dan And whether or not I'm Okay the rest is just the video

I just needed to add I just needed to do some splicing But here's your answer to whether or not He has a say And whether or not he is a Zionist You have some say but Zionism as an ideology is not simply, it's not like some inner identity. It actually is also a function and it's a series of ways of thinking and speaking.

And so other people have at least as much right, especially since you're a public figure, to adjudicate whether or not your stuff sounds a lot like and serves the function of Zionist propaganda, which it absolutely does in my opinion. I can tell you exactly why. So you can object to it and say you don't identify as a Zionist. You're not consciously a Zionist. You never signed up to do Hasbara. That doesn't resonate for you.

That's fine. We're observing from the outside, including many of your longtime listeners and supporters like me, and saying, huh, this guy's taken a hard right Zionist turn, and he's now aligning himself with fellow Zionists, whether or not you think you are. Well, that's a big problem. And I think that, you know, if there's any point to this, it's towards a better discourse between people who vigorously disagree.

Does Trump get a say in whether he's a fascist? I think that when you're talking about something like... Did Hitler get a say? I'm not comparing you to Hitler, but do people always, does David Duke get a say in whether he's a racist? Do we accord to people the right to conclusively and unilaterally rebut accusations of adhering to and serving a particular ideology? Bro. Brup, brup, brop, brop, brough, brough. Sorry, that was a killer.

Dude, that was a good moment. I think the war is a space now where there are few words that are more socially staining amongst many people than Zionist. Yeah, I wonder what. This is a fair target, and a Zionist is somebody who it's okay to say what you want about. And for a lot of people, Zionists is a person who it's okay to kill. So if it's also okay to label someone a Zionist, even if they've never used that term to describe themselves, there's a real danger there. So what I hope to come out of this is when you ask me, what's my definition of an anti-Zionist?

I can make that really simple. An anti-Zionist is somebody who calls himself an anti-Zionist. What do you mean by that? That is not a monster. No, it's not. Shout out to Pontius Pilate. I agree. Crucify him.

So I just really love that moment because I think that perfectly encapsulates the, way in which the term Zionist is being mostly twisted, not by, you know, those on the left who are, you know, using it as a euphemism for Jew, which does happen, but is not the, it's not backed by the ideological critique of Zionism. That's just something that does happen. Some people do that. It showcases to me where the difference between, a right-wing version of what a Zionist is, uh, and,

uh, sort of the left-wing critique. The right-wing critique is your call, you're just doing it as a, uh, search and replace for Jew. And, um, if I don't call myself that,

then I am not that. And therefore, um, when you call me a Zionist, uh, you must be doing anti-Semitism by using it as a euphemism for Jew. And that is not the case. You calling it out the fact that it's like,

we call Trump a fascist, all that. the time, he never says, I am a fascist. He does not openly identify as it. I think they're using the woke logic of like, you don't publicly out people. Like it's, like, even if it's Lindsey Graham, you know, like we don't, we don't out people. They're in the closet. They have a good reason to be in the closet. You leave them alone. That's their business. Oh, it is unsafe to out Zionists. The biggest problem is, unfortunately, the Western Jewish Zionist institutions are the ones who are making this conflation. They are the very, not just blatantly, they're putting it into law.

And if you're saying anti-Semitism is anti-Zionism, you're saying that Zionism is being Jewish. Like, what are you even talking about? Yeah, you want to have it both ways. Samira made that point beautifully. I wish I'd said it a little bit more clearly in Jewish, but he does this. He says, don't conflate, don't conflate, don't conflate, don't conflate. But when you talk about Zionism, you're talking out something that 97% of Jews support, so you must be talking about us.

Yes. What's doing the conflation? And then the fact that like 60 million, like, you know, Zionists in the U.S. or Christian Zionists, I mean, it's just the whole thing falls apart, you know, Mike Huckabee. Like, and the fact that this person, I forget, isn't, sorry, Mr. Brown. Jesse Brown. You know, is then, you know, he loves, it's. sounds like, you know, this whole, it goes to this apex mountain of like, therefore,

everyone wants to kill us, right? Right. Right. Everyone wants to kill us. It's like you have 60 million Christian Zionists in the U.S. You know, are you saying they also want to kill the Christian Zionite? Like, is it just everyone? Like, what are you even saying? It just completely hellas evaporates.

Yes. And it's also, I think, you know, a completely unfair conclusion to jump to. And it is, by the way, the exact same conclusion that people jump to on the right that MAGA jumps to all the time. Every time someone calls Trump a fascist for doing things that are openly fascist without saying it. He doesn't identify as a fascist, but he does things that are fascistic. He, you know, as you were saying, Daniel, it's like the definition isn't about self-identification. It's about what do you do in form, what do you do in practice, and what are the results? And people are all the time saying on the right, oh, you are putting Trump's life in danger.

Every time you call Trump a fascist, you are saying that he is an okay target to kill. This is exactly what Jesse Brown's argument is when you call me a Zionist, even though I have never publicly stated that I am a Zionist, you are saying that it is okay to kill me, which I'm sorry, but this is a total. It's bad to name things. Yes. It's bad to put words to things that those things haven't put to themselves. But it's also like a historic. I mean, it's not, it is assuming, in order to believe that, you already have to believe that people are, that there is a mass murder movement against Zionists in the West,

which there isn't. I'm sorry. And you can claim and talk about the anti-Semitism ramping up, I'm not going to argue with you about whether or not there's more anti-Semitism, I am going to argue that being called a Zionist, which is something that people still to this day self-apply, automatically makes you a target for death. It's just not the case. You also have to pretend, and you also have to pretend in Roel, I'm sure you can speak to this, that there isn't in parallel a massive campaign that's been very effective to turn words like Islamist, Khalistianians, and

River to the sea, whatever, into slurs that justify the attack, murder, cancellation, deportation, genociding, all everywhere on the spectrum of doing violence and harm to people. What Palestinians and Arabs have to live with and Muslims have to deal with every single day would make Jesse's daily anxieties seem like pure neurosis. Yeah, totally. I mean, campus caliphate? Like, what is that? Like, what are you been talking about?

You know what I'm in? Yes. And it's just ridiculous. The other thing is that I find interesting is that he was so reticent to be called a Zionist. Why? Oh, yes. Like, what is that? Daniel, you can answer that.

Well, because it busts up his schick of I'm just doing objective journalism. It's not Zionist to care about the rise in anti-Semitism. You don't have to be a Zionist to be an anti-Zionist. You don't have to be a Zionist to see that anti-Zionism is a hate movement that has material consequences for Jews. So that's the position he wants to take. Because the truth is he knows nothing about Zionism. He knows nothing about the Palestinians. He knows nothing about the Middle East.

And he'll say that. He said that somewhere else in the conversation. I don't know if it's an interview, a debate, controversy. Whatever. But he says at some point, you seem singularly fixated on this. You seem to know a lot more about it than I do. I'm just calling balls and strikes when it comes to what's that. I'm Canadian.

I'm a Jew in Canada. I'm concerned about that. So he needs to pretend like the position. he takes isn't somehow rhyming directly with the Zionist view of the world, as if he didn't grow up, he grew up in Zionist circles, he grew up in the mainstream Toronto, which is a very conservative right-wing Jewish community. But he wants to act like his point of view has, it's just sui generis. It's sprung from the, from the head of Athena fully formed. I see, I see. That makes sense.

Speaking of slurs, like you mentioned like, hey, you know, specifically she had this. Islamist, da-da, campus calified. Sharia. Did you all see, Sharia, exactly. Did you all see, Trump has done this a bunch of times, by the way, using Palestinian as a slur. He called Chuck Schumer a slur like two days ago. He said, Chuck Schumer is a Palestinian now.

He said, I'm even going to send him a silk outfit as his tradition in Palestine because he's so Palestinian. That's wild. I'm like, what? I do think it's funny to call Chuck Schumer basically a Palestinian. I mean, 20 for so many reasons. Yes. A, because it would insult Chuck Schumer. B, because Schumer is, you know, was at the Israel Day parade with Bezalelzmotrich.

Right. Like, what more do you want from that guy? 100%. Yeah. And it's, it's a really fascinating conversation because, again, it reminds me of the conversations I had, you know, post-October 7th with people where I really was trying to listen to, Because there are, you know, people I've known for a long time, listen to them in good faith and just being met with stuff that is either, for me, honestly, Daniel, it is hard to tell whether or not he actually doesn't know things about the history of Zionism. I have trouble believing that. I think he's doing, I'm a small being, I'm a babe in the woods. I'm just seeing. I think it's a mix.

He thinks he's doing journalism by, you know, reporting the things that no one else wants to talk about. Well, curiosity is also required to be a good journalist. Yeah. finding out context. You know, I don't claim to be a journalist. I don't, you know, but he does. And there used to be a certain amount of curiosity and compassion and ability to think critically

and steel man arguments that he had when he would, you know, do reporting on issues related to Canadian relationship to its First Nations people and all that kind of stuff. And it's just completely absence here. So whether or not he's ignorant on purpose, again, the ignorance serves a function. It doesn't have to be purposeful to be deliberate in a sense.

Well, I mean, especially as a journalist. I mean, the whole point I think, like sometimes people say, you know, might think like, oh, the whole point of journalism is just to tell the objective truth. And that's not what journalism is. Journalism is facts, but also the context, the full context around the facts. So when you say, da, da, da, da, October 7, and you're not giving the contextual truth about surrounding it, you are, you are now, you're, this is not journalism, you know what I mean, just like for instance, God forbid, hey, someone, you know, shoot someone. They say, hey, someone

shot and killed someone. And then there's no contextual as like, well, you know, they actually, you know, essayed their child or whatever it is. I'm just saying, the whole contextual context is why we look to journalists. We don't look at them just for facts. And if you're going to talk about an so-called anti-Zionist hate movement, which is, I pressed him on, I think in the next clip a little bit, but what he means by that. But that's his core claim, that there's something called anti-Zionism,

which is a hate movement. Well, then you have to give me a definition of Zionism and explain why people are anti-it and what the hate is about. Like, what are they hating? What are they talking about? If you're going to report that Jews feel unsafe to fly the flag of Israel in their synagogues,

well, what is that flag? What does it represent? What are the material connections between Jewish mainstream, Canadian institutions and that state. What is that state doing? Who are they doing it to? Who are the people to whom they're doing it? What's their history? You have to get curious about these things, but if you just put down, you know, if you silo your mind to the point where nothing new can get in, that's the only way that you can keep doing what he's been doing, which is completely tribally

ideologically driven. And the things that drives me crazy about him, and a lot of people who've watched it is, this is a deeply dogmatic, radically tribal person pretending to not be. Totally. Whereas there's no pretense in what I say. I come out and say, yeah, I have contempt for Zionism. I have hatred towards systems of power that oppress people. Right.

That's the emotion that arises in me as a human being. This guy is just dripping with contempt, smug contempt, but he tries to act like he's just coming from. And he talks about the two-state solution and how neither Israelis nor Palestinians want to live in a binational state and how I'm not helping Palestinians and all this kind of stuff. Again, completely ignorant.

I was like, yeah, you know what? Helps Palestinians a lot is focusing on the feelings of Jewish people in the West during a genocide that is being materially supported by your government. He thinks it's wrong to hang or burn Ben-Givir in effigy. Right, yes. He says, don't hang any Jew in effigy. I said, do you know,

what this particular Jew has done? It's not our fault that he wears Zika, and that that's the identifier of him. He says, don't hang any, don't hang any black person in effigy. If someone hanged a black person on the streets of Montreal, doesn't care who it is. You don't, right, I said, no, if it was Ediamine or someone who, you know, like,

I actually support the right of people to hang other, to hang powerful people in effigy. Especially if they're the ones who passed a law to, like, hang people. News lovers, yeah. I mean, it's like, come on. And also it is just completely bad faith that is completely doing the thing that he does that you point out that he does, which is try to appropriate the civil rights struggle of black people in North America.

Yeah, that's in this next clip. And yeah, so let's play this next clip because I think it's great. Here it is. It's a bit long, but let's see. No, that's fine. Long, good. Anti-Zionists hate Zionism, right? And by extension, that captures a lot of different things.

They hate it every day. they find new things to hate about it every day. They communicate their hate. Well, it's very generous in providing those things, which is why I have a podcast twice a week. You have a podcast twice a week in which you get together and hate. I love that. Can we put that in our log line? 120 minutes of hate.

It's too short to be a log line. Hey, hate, hate. I love that you clarify. So yes, I think it's a hate movement. We mock. Yeah. And we take a stand for something. I understand what you're saying.

Do I think it's possible for that to be rooted in a sense of humanity? Sure. I think that intent of a lot of people involved in this is humanistic or out of a desire to do something more. And do you think that Israeli-born anti-Zionists are motivated by a hate? I think that they're, well, if they hate Zionism, then yes, they might think of it as a virtuous hate. But yes, I do think that they're motivated by hate. I think you're conflating two different kinds of hate. The use of hate in racism talk of an irrational animus towards people.

as such and a loathing and opposition and a deep moral repulsion towards hateful, destructive, genocidal systems that any moral person would oppose. I hate Nazism. I hate what it does. I hate what it believes. I hate what it did to my great-grandparents. And I would hate it if it was directed towards anyone else. Okay. So I love that. This is when I realized the argument that he and people like Adam Lewis Klein are making with this like anti-Zionism is a hate movement. When they say hate,

they are, it's more broad than like the way we understand hate as hate speech. It's just that what it's when you- It means opposition. Which I'm like, well, yeah, that's what anti- means. It's a movement that's antagonistic to something.

Like that's like describing like Tylenol because it's an anti-inflammatory as a hate movement against inflammation. It's like it is not a hate movement if it's just something that's anti. It is completely ridiculous. It is the crux of his whole argument. Are you allergic to penicillin?

Yes, I'm allergic to anti-bacterial hate movements. Yeah, that's right. Like, what do you call the anti-war movement? Like, in Vietnam, what do you call the hate movement? It's a hate movement against war. Like, what are you even like? Hater's going to hate, man. Honestly, like you said, Daniel, like, Wala, they just reveal themselves.

Like, Awahiat Allah. I'm not kidding. And I know this is how you go into things, Daniel, because I'm seeing how you're interacting with him. You go into, maybe there's something. Maybe there's something still I'm missing. Maybe there's something I can understand. Maybe they just reveal themselves. There is nothing.

Maybe there's a glimmer of humanity left. That really is. Like, I can talk shit on this podcast and write parody songs about him. And, you know, I can be very cutting and, and, and, and, um, you know, take a stick to the pinata of the caricature of him that he basically is in public for the purposes of satire. But when I get one-on-one with somebody, I default to, okay, human to human, though. It's very obvious, man. They just reveal themselves. There's nothing. It's vapid. It's vapor. Well, here's the... There are many commas in each sentence. I understand. It's really, really, really,

that's something he's that's the nastiest all throughout the thing he's been like well uh there was so much in what you said no one could possibly respond to all of it this is where this is where the bottom just falls out he's like yes i get it there's lots of commas you really really really there's too many clauses i love at one point he was like you know he was like no person could could possibly you know remember all of them and you're like well a person who was listening could I do look no some of my some of my so-called questions are rants and I do know it is a skill I could work on to to get more someone in the comment said that and I think that's a fair critique sure sure but it is very funny to you know for for him to point out you know

that it's like there's there's too many accusations being leffied at me let's just say if you were doing commas over commas about things that he agreed with he would have no problem Yes, he'd be like, yes, yes, yeah, because they would need no explanation. Yeah. So do I think that the intent can be okay? Sure, but we know about racism that intent doesn't matter. Impact is what matters. Same thing with Zionism.

Okay. And same thing with your journalism, actually. Anti-Zionism is not a fight against Zionism, right? It hates Zionism, but anti-Semitism, it's not a fight between anti-Semites and Semites. It's not a debate. Anti-Zionism is about hatred of, Zionism and Zionists? Can it be motivated by the belief that what they're doing is right? What you're doing is right? I'm sure it is. That's what makes it so damn dangerous.

Well, I just wonder why I as a North American Jew, I as American Jew don't take anti-Zionism personally, and you do. I don't feel threatened by the same things you feel threatened. And even if I did, I would describe the cause of it to the country that is putting a fucking stain on my people's name, carving the Jewish star into the scalps of Palestinian prisoners and children carving the, you know, with the treads of their tanks into the ruins of Gaza. Let me, that's where I would put the blame. Let me respond to this really ugly argument that in any other context we understand, we understand that when someone says, I'm a black person and I'm being subjected to police

brutality. And the response to that is, well, there's a reason. Or, right? We hear that. We hear when a Muslim says, I'm a Muslim and everyone calls me a terrorist. And people go, well, there's a reason. We know that that is a racist argument, that the black person who is being beaten by the cops. You can't say to them, why don't you go and do something about the gangster app? Why don't you go and do something about the gun crime? That's a racist thing. I was really hoping we could get through one interview with you without you using the suffering of black Americans as an analogy. But I guess I brought it up first because I talked about Nat Turner. on abolitionism. I guess you did, he says. I guess you did. I love that shit. It is, it is, uh, there was another amazing moment earlier where he, he used the word

abolition or abolitionist in a way where he didn't realize the implications. And I was like, oh my God, I'm so happy you called it an abolitionist movement. That's exactly what it is. We're trying to abolish something. Are you saying that the abolitionist movement against slavery was a hate movement? Yeah, yeah. Exactly. And the answer to that is yes. That is what his definition of hate movement is,

is that it is, you know, being anti something. And for him, you know, whether or not he describes himself as a Zionist or a Jewish supremacist, he's absolutely a Jewish exceptionalist, which is that, you know, it is... He doesn't call himself a Jewish exceptionalist, Matt. So what do you, how can you say that? That's a good point. You're right. That's a tush.

Tush. But yeah, like he is someone who, you know, probably wouldn't call Tylenol a hate movement against inflammation because he doesn't believe that inflammation deserves the same type of human rights as Jews. For him, he believes that, you know, the being against Zionism in and of itself. is hateful because at the end of that critique is a Jew, is Jewish people. And automatically it means that his argument is actually anti-Zionism equals anti-Semitism. And that to me is just like the same bullshit trope we've heard over and over and over again. And it's the most anti-Jewish thing that was said in the entire.

Yeah, 100%. It's a deeply, it's a, it's, it's, it, that's what puts the target on the backs of Jews. And that's the thing I can't, I can't believe. I still can't believe it. That he thinks that people like me and Matt and Eurola are putting the bullseye on Jews and not him. That's, it's crazy to me. And also, Daniel, like you're bringing up exactly what is making, I think, like, Judaism and Jewish people less safe is, like you mentioned, like carving, you know, the star and people. Like, like literally using, you know, Israel using the Jewish star as a human shield.

for unspeakable crimes against humanity that we've not seen it witnessed with our eyes in our lifetime. And it doesn't seem to bother him. That's the crazy thing. He's not even talking. He didn't even rebut it. He didn't even say, oh, that's awful.

I hate that, yes, that it's doing that to our name. Nothing. None of it. Nothing. And that's just reason. That's like when a black person says, I'm being beaten by the cops, and someone else says,

go do something about that gangster rap. Yeah. The fact that he compares, police brutality to a fucking terrorist nuclear-armed state is insane. Or compares being Jewish in North America to being black in North America. Again, it's like this total appropriation of other people's trauma. And it's funny because that doesn't just include black people's trauma. It includes Jewish historical trauma.

And that's what the whole crux of Zionism is. It's the appropriation of other people's trauma in order to create sort of, I don't know, a framework for the exceptional behavior of those who have been historically wronged. And inflicting, and inflicting, inflicting unprecedented kinds and durations and levels of trauma on unprecedented. What does that even mean? But inflicting a whole new and, you know, a kind of trauma. that will go down in history as its own category. The most perfect, 100%, the most perfect example of it,

casting Jonathan Majors and a Zionist film. Yeah, yes. That's what they're doing. That's what they're doing. The trauma of this black man, yeah, 100%. Oh, he's trauma. It's awful. Man, he's just, he's just like us.

Well, as Jewish Uncle Tom's, we do have to take a quick break. but everyone please stick around because we will be right back and we're back this badass barra the world's most moral podcast here once again with Rola SELBak, how you doing Rola? Hey hey, Senevs. Hell yeah.

I hope during that break everyone, you know, during commercial, got to click on the link to watch Jesse and Daniel's conversation and I hope everyone enjoys it. I really do. Thank you for doing it. I'm glad you were, you know, you were not relentless, but you were, you had kept offering, despite him ignoring you.

I was steadfast. I showed some Samud. Yes. You did. You really did. You really did. So very gracious Samu's, I was Summo, I have to say. And I was, I mean, I felt self-conscious, really, I could, I had, like, people in my comments in my head.

Maybe with Palestine flags, probably not Palestinians, but people would be. being like, what are you doing? You're platforming and be normalizing him. He's not even more talking to. You make him sound reasonable, so on and so forth. You know, ultimately, I'm glad I did it. It felt a little weird. It's like, it's like having like a real sloppy, weird hookup with someone at the end. You're like, did we even, did that even happen? Oh my God, I love that. Yes. Like, what just happened?

You know, it did feel a little strange. But watching it back, I, and if you're pleased with it, I'm pleased with it. No, no, you did beautiful. And I do have to say one thing. And I think there's distinct difficulty and challenge and a different kind of smooth that is needed with someone that you've known a long time. We've all gone through this in our lives. And I do think, I don't know, I'm sorry that you lost a friend. I'm sorry that you lost a friend to something that is so. It's okay.

He was never a close friend. Oh, sorry, sorry. But we have lost friends. We have lost friends. Yeah, yeah. Either way. Just someone who like, for what reason, man, so unnecessary and so awful. so yeah I can't wait to watch it myself so I'm gonna be watching the one thing I didn't get to say to him he interrupted me which is fair game because I interrupted him many times

Towards the end he was he was accusing me of hatred and contempt and I said yeah, I do feel contempt towards Jews and support this stuff He said and there it is contempt is what's driving this he hates Jews Yeah, and I said I wanted to say and I didn't say that there's there's there's contempt yes and there's moral outrage and there's fatigue and there's a sense of moral superiority that I have but there's also grief And that's under the surface. There's a deep sadness, too. And that doesn't often come out explicitly, especially in the Badist Bar context, because part of what we do here

is to stuff our vulnerable feelings down under mountains of dick jokes and irony and silliness. We wanted you to be Zionists. What are you talking about? We're a very serious podcast. But at the very least, you know, like so I didn't I didn't get to say that and that's true but I think that one yeah when I look

at that interview I'm looking at two people one of whom is willing to be transparent about how he feels and why and the other one who has to pretend put on some kind of suit of I don't know solemnity or seriousness that masks how little he's actually thought about this and and the and the nasty emotions that are underneath the surface. They're not hard to see.

He never admits to them, but they're not hard to see. Yes. I mean, and it's weird to not admit to him because honestly, I understand if those emotions, you know, I think he's self-inflicted, but it makes sense to be emotional that you lost most of your fan base, probably, you know, your business, most of the money that you have coming in is now, you know, probably cut in half. You've lost your listeners. You've probably lost a bunch of friends. I'd be pissed too. And it is okay. It is okay for you to be angry about that, although I would say in his case, you know, it's kind of, it's self-inflicted. The fact that he doesn't,

that he goes on to be like, you know, look at you having contempt. And it's like, listen, buddy, if you, if you, if you, if you're doing this whole thing, uh, from a non-emotional standpoint, then you're just a psychopath. Like, I don't know what to tell you. Like, when it's very clear, this is all coming from bitterness, you know? That's what I see. Um, speaking of people who have been doing everything from bitterness, we're going to move on to a Hollywood legend.

You know her, you love her. Her name is Blossom. or she Whoa. The lady who played Blossom went on to a show on the free press network and was telling a...

Yeah, yes. And was telling a story that has gotten a lot of traction on social media. And I want to play it just because it's kind of I don't know, of a pair of like what Jesse's type of imagined or more so prosthetic trauma. So here is Maim Bialik talking to some person, I don't know, from the free press. Here we go.

When October 7th happened, it just magnified. And it was actually Sasha Baron Cohen who said, we're about to see the largest campaign. Oh, my boss. I believe it was Sasha Baron Cohen who said is not a sentence you ever want to. I believe it was Sasha Baron Cohen who said, Buyakasha. Yeah. I believe, you know.

Bomba class. Yeah. The famous, famous satirist, humorist, Sasha Baron Cohen once said, my wife. Who once said, ripe. But yes. As he once beautifully put it, Wahwa wewa. Wawa, we wa.

It is Sasha Baron Cohen, the Baron of Coendombe, who once said, throw the Jew down the well. And he said it as a joke. Look at this interviewer, Susie. Look at her just perched, lounged up on her like, I know.

I love, I love, I love it's so relaxed there. I love, yes, yes. I love a fake relaxed person. Dude, so. Here's my, and also, by the way, this Sasha Baron Cohen thing where, you know, was warning about the huge rise and up thick in anti-Semitism. This is a real thing that I heard from multiple sources about sort of a inter-Jewish, inter-pro-Israel sort of meetings and, you know, in trucks, excuse me, conference calls that were taking place.

you know, after October 7th about fighting the scourge of anti-Semitism that was already coming at that point. And the scourge they're describing was literally people sharing videos of what was happening to Palestinians. And people in Hollywood who were occasionally posting a tweet or an image of something that was happening. and how there needed to be pushback against people for doing that. It also led to Sasha Baron Cohen and Amy Schumer and a lot of these people in Hollywood directly led to the acquisition of TikTok by the Ellison's. So, you know, at least allegedly, you know, according to the sources that I have read and heard. We're about to see the largest campaign of anti-sacept.

we've ever seen in history. And I was like, what's he talking about? That's what happened. I was afraid, like a lot of public Jews were afraid. I didn't know what I was going to find when I opened the gate to my house. I don't live in an expensive gated community. I live in a place where people can see me walking. I did not know what my children would experience.

Yeah. Rolla's laughing at the idea of someone being like, I live in a place where someone can see me walking. That's just called living in a place. What do you mean? Even in a gated community, you have to leave at some point. What level of safety is it fair to expect at this point? I'm sorry, but it is completely unreasonable to be like...

I don't live in a place where there's a troll under a bridge who asks visitors three riddles. No. I live in a place that's got four walls and a roof. I don't live in a place that's got a moat surrounding it and just alligators biting at things. No. No crack in I can release. I don't have little slats up to the top of my roof in which I can pour boiling oil onto the peasants who try to revolt. No, I live in what fucking studio city?

What do you want? What do you want, lady? I love that that's the beginning of her victim story. That is the beginning of her. That's crazy. Yes. I am not wealthy enough to live in Bel Air. Therefore, you know, I am perfectly well within my rights to fear for my life wherever I go. And it's like, listen, fine, go ahead. Be scared. I can't stop you from being scared. But like this idea of acting like it's something that you should reasonably expect, which is to not be seen when walking. I don't know what you want from life. And when I saw what started happening to Jewish leaders

when I still see it, of course, many of us wondered, am I next? I had... What? What happened? It's giving Cheryl Sandberg billionaire, will you hide your vibes? Yes. Yes. It is would you hide me? But for someone who's like, who doesn't live in a gate or whatever, like,

someone who, someone not surrounded by a security fence. is just like, oh man, no one would even hide me. Many of us wondered, am I next? I had people approach me wearing Zionism is racism shirts in a parking lot not far from here at my favorite vegan joint with my children. And the thought occurred to me, what are my kids about to witness? Like a big dude coming up to me as I'm getting into my car? What is happening?

What do you say? That's terrifying. Oh, that's Myambiolic. And I said, get in the car, get in the car. But I'm like, I have like a chill right now. Yeah, it's terrifying. I'm sorry, it needs to be pointed out. My Ambielic's children are 20 and 17 years old.

Like, the way she's talking about it is as if they were like toddlers. In the car, Landon. You know what the crazy thing is? It's always about the. potential threat. You know, did nothing happen? The thought was afraid for what could possibly happen. Did anything happen?

The thought shook her so much. The imagination. No, but I was afraid for what could happen. Yes. It is, it's insufferable. Yes, 100%. And this is what anti-Zionists do. They have this technology where they implant, it's like inception.

They implant terrifying thoughts of what might have happened to you into your head and then you can't get those out of your head. It's a different kind of thought crime. That's what we do. We implant that into their heads by simply stating our vociferous, you know. We're wearing a shirt. We're recognizing you, Glossom. Our vociferous opposition.

By the way, I'm sorry, but the two people wearing the anti-Zionism is racism shirts went up to you in a parking lot and said, Oh, look, it's Mayambialic. Okay. Okay. What are we doing? Come on. Listen, my, I'll do respect. No.

It was probably more like, does that chick look familiar to you? And then one of Miami's big sons said, it's myambialic, you asshole, don't you remember? Yeah. They probably out of there. Speaking of sons, here's the rest of that video. Because like, whatever we believe, we don't want to. approach people in public parking lots, right? Like, like, with a, you know, a young man approaching a five foot four, like mom. Like what, you don't even know anything.

You actually don't know. You don't know anything about me. And my sons would say to me, well, when's the last time you posted that you care about Palestinians? I said, I could tattoo it on my face. There's going to be people who don't care. Like, I don't understand the world we're living in. Do it. Crazy. Yo, shout out to the Bialic sons. Open invitation to go on bad as barra. I mean, mom, to be fair,

uh, yeah, yeah, to be fair, mom, um, I saw that picture where you were, uh,

plugging that book, uh, under the rockets glow, uh, which was a children's story about, um, Israel using the iron dome to protect itself against, uh,

just like, you know, I'm just saying, mom, maybe, I don't know, a post a go fund me or a chuff. You know?

Well, it's very similar to what Jesse said to me. I'm like, I said, you know, we keep, for the first time in history, Jews on mass are actually doing things proudly and loudly that give anti-Semites pretext to accuse us of dual loyalty, fifth column. Right. Bloodthirstiness, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he was like, I got. I got news for you, man. They don't need it. They do it.

They hate us anyway. And this is what she's saying. She's like, I don't need to post picture. I don't need to post solidarity with Palestinian human beings. They're going to hate me even if I did that. Right. And I can only answer that with, that's not true. It's not true.

I'm sorry, but it's like it depends on, I guess, what you mean by they and hate and like, there's a lot of definitions that need to be worked out. But in terms of, I mean, look, I walk down the street, whether or not I am identifiably Jewish is in the eye of the beholder. But I do not get accosted. I do not worry about being accosted. When in a conversation about Zionism, I state my beliefs. And I am always, if I'm talking to someone else who shares those beliefs, welcomed with open arms. If you're talking about Twitter comments or Instagram, yeah, there are people who are going to hate you no matter what.

It's called the Internet. There are Nazis. There are Nazis everywhere. You can't stop yourself from seeing a Nazi comment on the Internet, especially since all the social media is owned by Nazis. This idea that, oh, it doesn't matter if I say that I'm, you know, pro-Palestine or whatnot. I'm still going to get hatred for it. It's like, I mean, not in any significant way that you are getting it now for being someone who is explicitly doing pro-Israel propaganda. The hate that you are receiving does not exist in a vacuum from that.

It's not about who you are. It's about what you're doing. I said to Jesse, Zionism is, as Zionism does, it's not an identity, it's not a pronoun, it's not some inner ineffable piece of you that people could. It's not subject to irrational hate. It's subject to a kind of moral calculation of is, am I for this? Am I against it? Are you actively forwarding crimes that I'm deeply opposed to?

If so, I'm going to oppose you. Yes. And the only part of that story that I can definitively say is true is when her child or her kid or whatever, her teenage kid said, when was the last time you posted about Palestine? I actually believe that. Why would she even say that? You know what I mean? And that actually does show a shift.

It does show a shift. I don't think that would have been part of her story two years ago. Yeah. So I don't know. In this case, I think it's for the similar purpose that Jesse Brown had, which is to point out that like it doesn't matter, you know, this is I'm teaching my son's a lesson

by saying this would have happened no matter what and I'm like I'm sorry but if you were if you actually were identified by people wearing Zionism as racism shirts and they're like hey it's my ambialic you being someone who has used your platform for

doing Zionist propaganda for doing pro-Israel advocacy does matter and if you had used it for and by the way in the story, nothing happens. That's like, the worst part is we're debating these hypotheticals of like, what if someone had happened? Well, if something had happened, it would be really bad. I feel like,

I love the, sorry, I love the definition that you said. I hadn't heard that before, prosthetic trauma. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's beautiful, beautiful description of, I invented it. Did you really? No. Naomi Klein, Naomi Klein introduced the idea of prosthetic memory. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, on our show, and we've been talking about prosthetic trauma ever since. It's not even her term. She bartered from some academic, but it's a very good term because you implant into other,

you implant memories that didn't happen, you implant a sense of impending trauma based on things that haven't happened to the person fearing it. And it's a way of keeping people, keeping people enslaved to an ideology because now you've got, it's not cognitive capture, it's emotional capture. It doesn't matter what you are.

And you could see that with Jesse too. Like there's nothing I could say that's going to shake him out of it because his emotions tell him what's true. Yeah. It's like a phantom limb. It's like phantom trauma. It's like it's not there. But it's just so in the head. It's wired.

How do you break through, man? How do you break through? I can only hope that like Mayam's, you know, teenage kid like at some point. I don't know. I believe that's what that kid said. I think that the last. three years of being inundated with the trauma of Palestinians through social media, through people showing the videos, people showing the consequences for those who have been speaking

out, I think that has been so far the most effective way of breaking through people's prosthetic trauma. I mean, certainly it's broken through a lot of young people. young people nowadays who grew up with the same Holocaust education in which we had the implanted trauma of, you know, doesn't matter what kind of Jew you were, you were going to get gassed. You know, they grew up learning about the Holocaust too, but then they see one. They see a Holocaust being carried out in the name of them and their people and their religion. and I think that's a pretty easy way of going like,

okay, look, it's one thing for me to talk about like, you know, my neuroses or the trauma of my ancestors, but I'm literally looking at a video from today of a child being murdered point blank range by an IDF soldier. So I don't, you know, I think that's a quick way for some people to hopefully break out of it, but it's hard to say. I mean, who the fuck? They also grew up with fewer Holocaust survivors around them,

than we did. Oh, yeah. Like my dad and grandparents came out of that time. Yeah. My great aunt was in Auschwitz. Yeah. My dad's grandparents died there.

Kids today, it's just a little further back in history. Not that much further back, but a little further back, which means that direct emotional thread isn't so easy to tug and be like, look at what they did to us and you can conflate the they.

That's true. is, you know, which I think is not a bad thing that at a certain point, you know, like in the Old Testament, right? Like God decreed that like certain number of generations would have to pass before the former slaves of Egypt would enter the promised land because enslaved, the enslaved mindset had to, had to die out. Moses didn't get to enter the land of Israel because, you know, he was of the old guard, the old school. He committed some minor sins too. Anyway, what I'm saying is, with time,

the power, the leverage, the power, the adhesiveness of this prosthetic trauma implantation gets less and less effective, I think. It's a deeper conversation, I think, because, you know, there's something to be, you know, said about passing these stories down. It is important, of course, to never forget. It's, I think the difference between talking about these experiences and these lessons from the Holocaust and then implanting a sense of dread and fear and inevitability. There's a huge gulf there.

I'm saying it's harder to manipulate this generation. That's true. That's true. I'm not saying it's good that we don't have people around to teach us about what actually happened there. No, of course. And I also think they had to, that's why, a big reason why I think, you know, the Zionist kind of Hasbroa Machine has had to move away from, hey, look, if you don't, then Holocaust again, they've moved to now Islamist, jihadists, we're all, all of us are in danger because of that, you know what I mean? And that's what they're, they have moved to, like, purely. They barely mentioned the Holocaust, by the way. Netanyahu, Smotri, like, Ben-Gadir, like, they don't, even mention the Holocaust. They mention it only in order to talk about how it's happening again, or to talk about how Jews of the past were weak and we are the new strong Jew. He's more likely

to talk about Amalek than he's about the Holocaust. You know what I'm saying. But you know what's interesting is that the, you know, what we're talking about with her bringing up the kids saying, hey, why do you even, you know, why don't you say something positive about the Palestinians online and advocate for them, you know, when's the last time you posted it and her going, oh, I don't need to, they would attack me anyway. A lot of people are using that logic to talk about Scott Weiner, recently being, quote, attacked in San Francisco during, I think, a pro-trans parade or, you know, celebration or something. And they're saying this as like, well, you know, here's someone who

is pro-Palestine who is being yelled at. And to that, I can only say the same thing I would say to my ambiolic is like, if you posted today, fine. I am against genocide. What Israel is doing is wrong. What Israel has been doing is genocide

and I am against it. And then the next day, someone doesn't see that post and yells at you. I'm sorry, but it still makes sense. I'm not saying it's generally okay to go and yell at people for assumed positions. Of course not. Scott Weiner's a politician who's running for Nancy Pelosi's fucking seat.

The idea that he's going to be held to account by people, ass holish, though they may be. And how far has he gone? Like, I don't actually, I'm not even familiar with Scott Weiner's position. What is he said? He, I think the last time we covered it is when people were asked who were running for the same seat. Oh, he wouldn't. even raise the paddle. He wouldn't raise his paddle. He wouldn't raise his paddle on whether or not he believes it was a genocide. He couldn't get his paddle up. His pedal is his paddle

exited of erectile dysfunction. Pattle impotence. Yes. But then he went on to finally make a video in which he was clearly cowed into saying what is happening is a genocide. And I always want to support that. And I say I give credit to that. And I think people should be given the grace to change their positions. But this idea that, you know, he is going to be immune from being yelled at by people in San Francisco or at a pride parade because he made one video, you know, finally coutowing to the mob. It's ridiculous to me. I'm like, look, you spent the last three years being someone who focused like Jesse Brown on

anti-Semitism as the number one issue and on criminalizing. and pushing back against people who were criticizing the state of Israel, people are going to remember that. People remember it. And, you know, it's just, it's an insane thing to take every instance of people publicly getting yelled at and turn it into a fucking statement about how Jews are unsafe. He's a public official. He's a public official.

He's not. that. We pay him. Like he works for us. I don't understand why you're so surprised. A, B, I saw the video. I don't know if I saw all of it. So tell me, from what I saw, he didn't say a word. Did he, did he say anything back? Scott, Scott Weiner, not from what I saw. Right. Not from what I saw either. Yeah. And I think, you know, him being yelled at is turned into another form of Hasbara

not unlike what Jesse Brown does which is it to take these things, make them exist in a vacuum and use it as proof of see, Jews are unsafe. They can't even walk down the street without being noticed the way Mayambiolic wants them to not be noticed. In fact, it was

this fucking, you guys know John Lee. Oh my God, please. Again using black trauma. Again using black trauma. Black drama, my God. That's from Jesse Brown versus Board of Education, isn't it? All right, so it's an image where it says two

pictures. One is Scott Weiner being yelled at by some young kid and then right next to it is a picture of, I believe this was the integration of a school in the South in

Alabama, maybe. A black female student being yelled that by a racist white. Yes, and he writes, same energy. And it's like, that's not, that's not even close to the same energy. They have no shame. Anyways, they have no shame. It is all being used for that.

I'm going to play one last Miami clip in which she brings up her role as Jeopardy host. I loved hosting Jeopardy. I miss hosting Jeopardy. I got to host Celebrity Jeopardy, which was really incredible. Also, when I was not asked back to Jeopardy, I wasn't like, all right. Like, I wept. There was a loss for me. And also, it was like right after October 7th, everything was very raw.

Like a lot of Jews, I felt very out of place. Where do we belong? I took it personally, meaning I don't belong here. See, we don't belong. And that's just what our brains do to try and make sense of something. We try and find a pattern. I will find that pattern, you know? But that's just self-esteem that I'm still working on.

But yeah, it's sad. It's painful. Wouldn't it be nice? if she could take that grain of self-awareness and psychological insight about how human mind works. You know, we look for patterns, we try to explain our emotions, we try to come up with a world, we have a worldview that gloms onto how we feel that then justifies and reinforces it. But that's what I'm working on. Could you apply that to what happened to you after October 7th and what's happened to

American and Canadian Jews more broadly in terms of how they see the world? It's crazy. She's almost there. Yeah, it's like she's willing to apply it to her not getting the role as host of Jeopardy. She's willing to say, okay, maybe, you know, there was, for a moment, it was right after October 7th and I was like, oh, this is because I'm Jewish, isn't it? They don't want Jews on TV famously. You know how, you know how TV.

It's not called Jupiter for a reason. Yeah, exactly. I've never seen such a case of victimhood. I don't know, actually. You all probably have more insight into this just because of, you know, how much you've been studying and talking about this. We see it all the time. It's like victimhood. It's like a drug.

I don't know if it hits the same receptors. I don't know what the fuck is going. They cannot, they meaning Zionists who are victimizing themselves, whether it's, you know, Christian Zionists who are like, oh, they hate us because of our Christianity or, you know, Jewish Zionists because of that. They cannot help themselves. Like, they'll get to a certain point and then, boo, I'm a victim. Yeah. Well, I think the receptors that it hits are the box. Would you hide me?

Like, what are you talking about? I think where it hits the receptors is where they bond with others who feel the same way. You can see it in that conversation. The intimidation. Yes. Right. Our shared victimhood. Interesting.

Yeah. You know, otherwise it would be too lonely. But it's the echo chamber of developing a group tribal identity around it. It's not just my own personal trauma. Right. It's us. Right. And the reason why I asked about Scott,

Wiener and him not saying it because I've seen videos of him doing that before meaning you know walking through spaces and people challenging him on Volostin and his inclination is to not say anything and I feel it's this weird performative kind of victimhood look at me I'm kind of like a little you know I'm just a small beam the dude is like six seven I don't know I feel like it's part of the performance of like just like oh yes like I'm just like dude Get the fuck over yourselves. Like, there's actual people being slaughtered and suffocated. There's babies with bullets in their heads.

And you're sitting here, you know, in line with someone who posted, like, you being compared to, you know, like, what are you even talking about? Yeah. I would be ashamed, Matt, I would be ashamed. I would literally dig a hole, put my head in it, and live there for the rest of my life. if I dare compare myself, even as a Palestinian, to a black person who for the first time had to go to a desegregated school. I would literally never want to be seen in public again.

It is. It's really interesting because, you know, I understand the arguments that some are making about, you know, trying to extend grace to people who are trying to change. And I agree with that, in essence, the more inviative. the movement, the more, you know, it can be helpful for people who need to be coddled and need to be invited. That being said, I as someone who started a fucking podcast because I saw this shit and it was pissing me off. And I was like, everyone's just pretending now that the conversation we need to have is about schools being anti-Semitic and not about the endless torrent of fucking blood I am seeing every day coming out of Gaza.

I don't blame anyone for having a totally fucking rock solid, never forgive attitude. Like, I just don't. I can't, I can't not relate to that because I have actively had to try to extend that grace. My inclination is to yell at someone and show them the receipts of them being total narcissistic babies for two and a half years while people were being slaughtered in their name. And so, yeah, it's, not everyone has the time to sit and, and contemplate the strategic importance of being open and inviting to change. So, sorry, but that's, that's just, it is what it is.

And I, which is why I, I've said, like, as far as my conversation with Jesse, I don't recommend it to it's not must watch television i don't think everyone needs to see it not everyone's going to have the patience or the bandwidth for it it's certainly not a conversation everyone needs to be trying to have with the zionists or the crypto zionists in their life it's it's one conversation between two people which might have some value but right you know um and this is a conversation between three people that for sure has some value rola it was so wonderful having you back on bad has Bar, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you both so much.

You're one of my favorite people of all time. Where can people find you and, you know, find your work? Yeah, yeah. You can go to Instagram, Rolla Sellback. I also just launched a YouTube channel, Rolla Sellback Official. And if you ever want to support, I do have a podcast, but it's exclusive to Patreon. If you do want to support and listen to what I have to say, very raw, very detailed. You do really funny multi-character sketches.

Oh, thank you. That means a lot coming for you guys. Like there were like eight kinds of Arab Zionists or something like that. Like all these different characters, you put on little costumes and do little voices. Dude, out of all the Zionists, the Arab Zionists really, really kill me the most. They kill me. They kill me. It's the one kind of Zionist we can't make fun of on this show.

Or at least not make fun of very well. We certainly can't do the accent. I'm more than happy to. Yes. Yes, we'll bring you on and we'll do deep dives into some of our favorite Arab Zionists. Maybe you can come on as the Arab Zionist. Yeah. Interview you in costume with your little mustache.

Sock in Jersey. Oh, my God. Yeah, but yeah. But we will put your social media handles in the show notes as well as your Patreon. Everyone please join her Patreon and, yeah, support Rola in her work. And very excited for, um. the film that you are going to be making. Thank you.

If you guys want to know more about it, you can go to visitor movie.com. Thank you both so much. Again, thank you for the moral clarity. Thank you for the joy. Thank you for the catharsis. You both are really gems in this world. So thank you for all the hard work you do.

Walla, I really do. I'm completely sincere. Thank you. We love you. And we love everyone out there. Listening, watching, enjoying. Patreon.com slash badass barra. Baddisbara at gmail.

email.com for all your questions, comments, and concerns. All right, everyone. Thanks again so much for listening. Until next time, from the river to the sea. Hating genocidal apartheid regimes is not bigotry. Ooh, love it. That's good.

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