Bad Hasbara - The World's Most Moral Podcast - 235: Pink: Washed

Episode Date: September 15, 2026

Matt and Daniel go duo solo without a guest to talk over the recent lack of mackle on the Ed Sheeran stage, a little discourse on the NAZA discourse, and the innuendo potential of the third single from Aerosmith’s twelfth studio album.Visit https://halapalestine.com/ and use code BADHASBARA for 10% off. It helps the show! Products made in Palestine and delivered to your door.Please donate to Reviving Gaza: https://chuffed.org/project/123783-gaza-food-water-and-cash-aidJoin the Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/c/badhasbaraSubscribe to the Substack at https://badhasbara.substack.com/Get a Youtube Membership at https://www.youtube.com/@Badhasbara/membershipMiddle School Mysteries: https://middleschoolmysteries.com/Middle School Mysteries IG: https://www.instagram.com/middleschoolmysteriesmusical/TICKETS: Francesca Fiorentini and Matt Lieb October 13 in Philadelphia: https://www.ticketmaster.com/francesca-fiorentini-matt-lieb-philadelphia-pennsylvania-10-13-2026/event/020064D7D1615517TICKETS: The Bitchuation Room with Francesca Fiorentini and guest Matt Lieb October 14 in Philadelphia: https://www.livenation.com/event/vvG1FZ_uLomA9S/francesca-fiorentini-the-bitchuation-room-liveTICKETS: Matt Lieb and Francesca Fiorentini October 15 in Brooklyn, NY: https://bit.ly/octoberbellhouseBad Hasbara Merch: https://estoymerchandise.com/collections/bad-hasbara-podcastWhat’s The Spin on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/50JoIqCvlxL3QSNj2BsdURWhat’s The Spin: Part 2: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3rGDqmo1trC8qwobefELSt?si=e29b8594e17c47dbWhat’s The Spin on Tidal: https://tidal.com/playlist/3cec7963-1fc5-42bc-ab7d-64fb420eb50eWhat’s The Spin Album List: https://bit.ly/whatsthespinlistSkad Skasbarska playlist: http://bit.ly/skadskasbarskaSubscribe/listen to Bad Hasbara wherever you get your podcasts.Spotify https://spoti.fi/3HgpxDmApple Podcasts https://apple.co/4kizajtSubstack https://substack.com/@badhasbaraSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/bad-hasbara/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hello everybody and welcome to Bad Hasbara. The world's most moral podcast. That's right. My name is Matt Leeb. I will be your most moral co-host for this podcast. I'm Daniel Matey and I'll be the other most moral co-host for another Jewish calendar year. What is it? That's right.

I don't know the numbers, but it's up there. It's getting up there. We're getting up there. up there. This is getting this earth is getting old. Smash that survive button. Let's get humanity. It's a year. It's right. 6,000. Yes, hit that notification bell for when the end times is a come in. Very excited. Happy Jew year to you and all your family out there, Daniel Mate.

Same to you. And everyone. Everyone out there celebrating. Good yon tif to all. It's very good, this whole Yantif thing. Give us five stars and review wherever you get your apps. I mean, wherever you get your pods, whatever app you get your pods on. Give us five stars and review. Tell your friends about it. And subscribe. Subscribe to our Patreon because not only do you get these episodes a little bit before everyone else does, usually like a day before.

But also you get a bonus episode. Every gosh darn week you get an extra episode of Bad Hasbara. you can't get enough of this show. You're addicted. You're a hog. You're a pig. Do it. I'm just kidding.

It's all love. Please join, you know, if you want to. And also, you know, what you get. Join if you want to. That's right. Don't if you don't. So that's a good example of something you will get on the bonus episodes or on any episode. Sometimes we, you know, we'll sing something and YouTube will,

will demonetize it because they'll be like, hey, you're not allowed to sing songs. No joy allowed. I hope I accidentally changed the key on that B-52 song, so it's not detected. I mean, listen. Is it that sensitive? I don't think it's that sensitive, but it's fairly sensitive. So the great thing is if you are a patron, then you get the parody songs. Whatever parody songs we sing that get us demonetized and we have to cut out of the main episode,

you actually will get that as well as all of the other stuff. stuff that I mentioned before. Plus, you get your name at the end of the episode if you join the $10 tier or more. So, I mean, who the hell doesn't want that? Join the Patreon now. If you haven't done it, it's time. That's what the money's for. Mad Men.

The 13th and 14th of October, I'm going to be at the punchline in Philadelphia. Please go to the link in the description and buy your tickets now. I'm going to be performing stand-up. So is my wife, Francesca Fiorentini. We're also going to do a live version of her podcast, The Bituation Room, is going to be really fun. And then on the 15th of October, that's a Thursday, we're going to be at the Bell House in Brooklyn.

Link is also in our description. Sorry. No? What's wrong? Busy. You're busy that day? Well, Daniel's... I plan to be busy.

He plans to be busy that day. He doesn't want to support live comedy. Don't be like Daniel. Come out. Support live comedy wherever you can. And you can. Brooklyn on October 15th. Buy the tickets.

And Daniel, you've got a musical coming out. Tell me about it. I do. A week from this coming Friday, Friday's September 25th, on all streaming platforms, the cast album, the studio cast album made in the studio entirely. There was no production. The idea of making this album is to get productions in schools. Of my original musical, middle school mysteries, my film noir-inflected Steely Dan for Twins,

a wholly original detective story of two sixth grade sleuths trying to solve the mystery of where did their classmate go and also who is everyone really under the surface of all of these social roles and masks. That's right. Middle school mysteries, a new musical, see? That's the tagline. And it is coming out on September 25th because the kids really talked like that, see? Yeah. Wednesday, 8 a.m.

There's a hard-boiled detective, you know? A hard-billed detective and a bright-eyed homeschooled girl newbie who is. who's got to learn the ropes real quick and they form kind of an odd pair, you know? Yeah. And there's, um, it's amazing. Tensions. Uh, we, uh, we listened to it while we were in Jordan.

We're in the hat, not because of the pitch, but because I, I got to get a haircut. The same day you bought that hat. We listened to it. That's right. And, uh, it's very good. And, uh, I, I think everyone will enjoy it. And I can't wait to see productions of it. And I'm, I'm certain there will be, uh, many.

It's very good, very funny. Listen to it and then really good music. license it to do in your school. In your schoo. Today, we have a sponsor, which, again, is just a charity, not a real sponsor. Today's episode is brought to you by Reviving Gaza. Reviving Gaza is a mutual aid initiative focused on providing for the immediate and basic needs of people in Gaza. They organize water purification and distribution, orphan sponsorship, and cash aid for refugee families in need.

the link is in the description. Please click on it as soon as you can. You can, you know, if you're listening to this podcast, it'll be in the podcast description. If you're watching on YouTube or Patreon or wherever, substack, the link will be in the description there. Please click on it and donate. Donate now. They need your money more than we do, certainly, and probably more than you do, I assume. Chances are.

So click the link, donate now. and do it for the world. Daniel. Matthew? What's the spin? Well, let me ask you something, Matt. Do you have any mental health diagnoses? Oh, a bunch.

Yeah, me too. Oh, for real? Me too. So this episode of The Spin is called, we're all neurodivergent a little. That's right. That's true. Shout out to Robert Lopez.

That's, everyone is a little bit racist, right? Yeah, from Avenue Q, yeah. From Avenue Q, yeah. This one's everyone's a little bit, another R word. That's right. Yes, yes. Robert. And I got the idea for it because I was listening to this Billy Joel album, Stormfront,

which has We Didn't Start the Fire on it. But the second single, the second single from it was always my favorite. It's I Go to Extremes. Oh. Darling, I don't know why I go to extremes. And I was like, oh, it me. It me, because I have bipolar, too. I've been diagnosed with bipolar too.

Yeah, I take mood stabilizers and all that. I'm normalizing the shit out of neurodivergence today. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's good, dude. No, Benincourt plays on this? What are you talking? Oh, that's extreme. Ha, ha, ha.

Go to extremes. Anyway, so I love that song, and that's kind of about a bipolar tendency. You know, I don't tend to think that these diagnoses are hard and fast things. They're not entities in your head. They're just umbrella descriptions for tendencies and patterns. Exactly, exactly. Also, Stormfront, hell of a name for an album, I'll tell you. That's also a very.

popular Nazi website. No relation. Billy Joel, for all I know is not a Nazi. Sing us a song, you're Gestapo man. I almost get a

stick out of you on that one. Gustavo man. Then depression, of course, which is another thing I've suffered from and been diagnosed with and treated for it various times. Song Garden on louder than love. Their major label debut has a song called I Awake and the opening line is,

woke up depressed. Depression. Nice. Borderline. Oh, for Borderline personality disorder. Yeah, exactly. I love that. Madonna's self-titled debut.

That's right. Borderline. Great song. Yeah. XTC on Wonderful album, English Settlement, has a song called Senses Working Overtime, which I would associate with synesthesia. Oh, I know that.

You know, you experience colors as sounds and you experience, you know, touch as visually. Yeah, it does sound kind of, but it can probably drive people crazy too. I'm sure, yeah. Like, you know, if you have it, it's bad, but it sounds pretty cool. Yeah. I mean, we could have gone so many different directions because I'm bad obsession for obsessive-compulsive. Sure, sure, sure. But anyway, I had to be a little selective.

Ghetto Boys, we can't be touched with this wonderful album cover. That's taken in the hospital right after Bushwick Bill got shot in the face. Oh, that's right. Is that how he lost his eye? Yep. Oh, I didn't know that. And this was literally taken as Willie D. and Scarface were wheeling him out of there. That's so awesome. Anyway, the song, mind playing tricks on me. That's schizophrenia if I've ever heard it. Yeah. Diane. Yes. I was just talking to you. Yes. I love that. I thought it could also be some sort of like, you know, positive. One of those like happy manic episodes for damn it feels good to be a gangster. I thought you were going. Yeah. Or a psychopathy, die motherfucker. Die motherfucker. are still. Neither of which are in this album. Ah, yeah. Wow, that's fine. M.F. Doom with, well, the collab album, JJ Doom. There's a song on here called R-worded friend.

It's not called R-worded friend, but it's... I got you. I know what you mean. And it turns out that Tom York and Johnny Greenwood did a remix of it. There's a song on this called Allow Gavna, which Tom York named as his favorite song of 2014. Are you serious? you're not even joking. I'm not even joking.

No, no, they did a remix of one of the song, the R-Worded Friends song. Wow, really? It's not on here, but the original is. Oh, that's awesome. And then just to, you know, to sum it all up, everyone, don't be afraid of your neurodivergence. Don't be afraid of what makes you different.

That's right. Make like Lindsey Buck and M. And go insane. That's the name of this album. I like it. His solo album. So that's our neurodivergent. What's the spin?

I love that. For all you out there with the multiple diagnoses, We thank you so much for listening to this podcast and not stalking us or whatever. I mean, listen, there's all sorts of diagnoses, only a few of which end in stocking. Cool. That is what is spinning in the Mate household today. Better, better a parasycial psycho than a paratrooper. Exactly.

Today we are doing a guestless episode. So it is just Daniel and I today for your ears. your eyes, just the hosts. And so with that said, our before the guest segment makes no sense because we don't have a guest. So it's before the real shit. Before the real shit. Because we have a lot of shit to get into today.

We've got to get into some McElmore stuff. We have a continued, an update on McElmore. And then we also are going to be talking about the Naza documentary discourse that's been going on throughout the Twitter and probably other social media websites, but Twitter is the one in which I see the most discourse. But before that, we need to talk about what, Daniel? Well, speaking of the XTC song, Senses Working overtime, let's make our, I'm going to make your senses work overtime here. Now, I want you to focus, this is going to be a challenge, because visually, what I'm about to play you wants you, it's trying to lure you in with a

of visuals. Really? But I need you to pay attention to what's going on sonically, too, in the background. Okay. Specifically towards the end of it, okay? Okay, okay.

And this is a face and a body you might recognize. This is Sidney's fucking gambling addiction slop heard about this. Which is now, you know, there's a billboard up in Times Square. This is the most nefarious ship, by the way.

Yes. Like, gambling addiction is the most destructive addiction in America, bar none. It's the one that results in the most suicides. Saga and Jetty actually had a very good interview on Tucker Carlson about this.

Whatever you think of those two guys, he's done some good research into it. And it's fucking grim. I don't mean Ryan. It's grim. It's upsetting. And now they, of course, who do they get? They get the most porn-coded, right-wing-coded,

middle-America-coded actress to try and tantalize you into gambling. She's certainly leaning in. I'll tell you that. She's leaning in. So let's watch. And then I want you to, as if that's not enough toxins that they're trying to pump into you. Watch what happens towards the end of this, or listen, I should say.

Okay. Thinking of sports, prove it. No big it is. Just sports. So they wanted to show just sports. You can trade this sport. Or this? Sports.

Sports. Sports. Sports. Sports. Sports. Sports. Sports. No betting on wars or deaths. And no politics. Just you. Good takes. And sports. It's

No! No! Was that Hatikva? Yo! As she said, no more betting on deaths or wars, Hatikva starts playing. Yo! You want to hear that again? Yo, yes!

Okay, here we go. Oh my God! Oh my God! Isn't that fucking nuts? That is the most nice thing. Good takes. Death. Sports.

Sports. Sports. No betting on wars or deaths. And no bolders. Just you. Your takes and sports. Yo! It's going on, dude.

Well, I hear that the owner of Novig is a big old Zionist. I haven't looked it up. I should have it. You don't say. Adam, maybe you can do a little Novig digging. Oh my God, dude. Like, I never thought that there would be. Literally anything.

You were telling me, like, I'm going to play you something, and it's got Sidney Sweeney, basically naked on it. But that won't be the thing that makes you react like you just came. That's right. Like, what the fuck, dude? I cannot believe that. Is it a... What?

I don't know. Why? I have no idea. I mean, your guess is as good as mine as to how that got in there, whose idea it was? I mean. Because the music, like, there's definitely a pause in the music and it gears up for this little coda. Yes. They just clearly tacked it on.

Right. They were like, why? God damn it. It's just like an endless fucking just barrage of the most ham-fisted fuck. I mean, I guess in this case, it's trying to be subtle because they're like, people don't know the fucking Israeli national anthem. So CEO Jacob Fortinsky. Fortnitesky. Jacob Fortnite dance is a Zionist.

Cool. And yeah, they were just like, let's play the fucking Israeli national anthem. Just trying to sell you on a birthright trip right in the middle of it, I guess. I mean, they're going to start paying off porn hub to get Israeli national anthems as backgrounds in porn videos or, you know. That's what they're trying to do. They're trying to, Yeah, they're trying to create an association. A Pavlov fucking association where all of a sudden instead,

but instead of like the bell rings and the dogs drool, it's like you hear Hatikva and then you come. And that's what they're trying to do. And I see you. I see you. I know what you're up to. It's just, why? Why?

It's just not worth fighting anymore. You know, I'm just like. Leave myself abuse alone. Yeah, I know. It's like, this is. I feel like the most, I feel like I'm Gamergate now, where I'm just like, not in my safe space. Don't give me your goddamn Zionism in my safe space. I'm just trying to, come.

Oh, man, Daniel, I truly, I was like, what could you possibly have to say about this that isn't just the same kind of discourse about whether or not Sydney, Sweeney is MAGA or whatnot? No, you've, you found something. I don't think I've seen anyone talk about this. I saw one person mention it. That's the reason I clicked, because I wasn't going to click on the sound. The whole thing disgusted me. Yeah, I was just going to watch it on mute. And someone's like, am I going crazy or is there Hatikva in the last five seconds of this?

No. Oh, well. Sports. Sports. Sports, everyone. One of my favorite, Houguim. Hey. Yes.

So with that note on this new year, we need to move on to talk about other music. We have an update on the McElmore situation. We talked about it on Friday, and we were a bit late in talking about it because that actually happened the week before. I think in the first week of September, in which McElmore went on stage in New Jersey, East Rutherford, New Jersey, opening for Ed Shearren. and gave this little speech right before he played Hins Hall, which is a song about the Colombian encampments and, of course, the murder of a three-year-old or a six-year-old girl, a six-year-old, a six-year-old woman, according to senior.

Yeah, a six-year-old grown lady, if you watch 24-hour news networks. A middle-aged Palestinian, in other words. That's right, yeah. And so he gave the speech in which, you know, he said, you know, genocide and apartheid bad,

which was very shocking for the Israelis and or Jewish people in the audience. Not for the majority of them, just for maybe one or two people who went there and were offended by this statement.

And he was... They were mostly offended when he called them his Jewish brothers and sisters. They're like, no sibling of mine is uncircumcised and wraps the raps, the rapidy rap?

Oh, I guarantee you that McElmore is circumcised. You know, he's born in the 80s. We all get, you know, we all got chippity chopped whether you were Jewish or not. Is that true? I mean, I don't know. I mean, look, I just know that like I was shocked to find out how many people, look, I've seen a lot of dicks. And I've noticed that, you know, there were a few uncircumcised people, but, a far greater amount of circumcised people.

Yeah, sure. But I also think that's probably regional too, no? It's probably regional. I feel like if he grew up in a more Christian part of the country. I'm talking in general. Maybe there's different parts. Here's the point. We're not talking about Dix right now.

We're talking about McElmore. Not McHull less. And he gave the statement and he got dragged through the mud. The world's most maclomoral podcast of the last few episodes. That's right. And one of the people. people and entities dragging him was of course the ADL. And Jonathan Greenblatt specifically was going after Macklemore.

And not just that, but he was going after Ed Sheeran and he was going after the owners of the stadiums where Ed Shearin was going to perform during his U.S. tour. He posted this on Twitter. McElmore demonized Israel and Israelis to a crowd of unsuspecting fans who came for music, not propaganda. And while he may have the right to say what he wants to, no matter how grotesque, businesses have every right to decide who they platform. We encourage stadium owners and venue management to demonstrate their values, which of course is not so much a suggestion, but a threat. This was... We want venue owners to demonstrate our values. Right. And this threat against the stadium owners worked today, Monday, September 14th. Both Variety, Hollywood Reporter, and Rolling Stone all broke the news that indeed McElmore was removed from Ed Shearren's U.S. tour. Exclusive, McElmore dropped from Ed Shearron tour after on stage, quote, free.

Palestine statements. I have some more about that. This is from Variety. I will read this right now. McElmore dropped from Ed Sheeran tour after free Palestine speech. Maclemore has been dropped from the remainder of Ed Sheeran's U.S. Loop Tour after making headlines, headlines made by us at Variety, saying free Palestine on stage after delivering a political speech during the September 4th concert at MetLife.

Life Stadium in New Jersey. The Grammy winner told the audience at the show that he wanted people in Gaza and the occupied West Bank to know they had not been forgotten. Messina Touring Group promoter of the U.S. leg of Sherin's Loop Tour said in a statement to Rolling Stone, quote, as the concert promoter for Ed Sheeran's U.S. Loop Tour, we have been notified by venues on the upcoming U.S. tour dates that they will not allow a concert to take place with McElmore on the lineup. which would result in the cancellation of the tour and impact hundreds of thousands of dollars. I mean, fans.

After discussions with stakeholders, McElmore will not be performing on the remaining support dates. After discussions with stakeholders, we have targeted McClomor's wrists and ankles for perforation by said stakes. Yes, by stakeholders, they mean people wielding stakes against the vampire that is macklemore um yeah so this news you know broke today and uh it was honestly it was like a bit of a gut punch for me because uh i knew that this was in all probability

something that could happen but there's always part of me that goes ed shiren is big enough that he's doing stadiums. He is rich enough that he is able to throw his weight around. Maybe he will just ignore it and call the bluff of anyone who is going after him. And the fact that he didn't isn't just like, oh man, well, you know, it's hard out there to fucking, no, it is a supreme act of cowardice. to me it is like totally unforgivable in anyone trying to give him the benefit of the doubt like no it's not ed it's he had to because the the venue owners yes certainly the venue owners went after him in fact macklemore said in a statement recently and i'm going to read this to you that it was indeed uh the remaining uh stadium owners who got together at the behest of Robert Kraft,

who was a billionaire, Zionist, piece of shit. Goddammit, I hate being part of a marginalized group that has no influence over anything. I know. I'm so tired of it. When are we can be able to pull string? I know. When will we finally get a fair shot?

But like, while I, of course, agree that these are the venue owners getting together and doing something that rhymes with schmars, small um kebal it didn't really run it did my best um this is like uh this does not let someone as big as ed churen with as much pull as he has off the hook for that because this is something he actually can he and the promoter can put their foot down and say no you don't get to control who we put on especially given the fact that you've got fucking uh like kanya west put out a nazi fucking album. Like he's got

a Hail Hitler song. And he just did another concert at the state center or some big something. Yeah, or some fucking arena or whatever. I mean, yeah, because they could call their buff and say, okay, cancel us. And then they'd have to deal with fans being like, what the fuck, yo? Why did it get canceled?

It got canceled because someone said something political on stage. That's fucked. That would have been great. Yeah, I mean, and not only that. And Ed Sherry could afford it. Like, that's what I'm saying. and can afford it. And you think about, well, okay, so contractually, possibly they do have say, right? Nothing stops them. This is Adam saying nothing stops them booking Ted Nugent, Chris Brown, Connie, et cetera, exactly.

Jasmine Crockett just gave Chris Brown some kind of life-time achievement award on stage. Jasmine Crockett gave Chris Brown a medal. He's like, I guess, number one in domestic abuse. I'm not sure. But like gold records and black eyes. Dude, it is, it's fucking wild to see these stadium owners being like, well, this is a bridge too far. And, and Ed Shearhan, maybe, let's say he was contractually obligated to like, like maybe the venue has say and they can pull out legally. So if Ed Sheeran says, well, I'm going to do it anyways, then, you know, they can sue him. I don't know. Maybe, let's say at worst, they can all sue him if he does it.

I'm sorry, Ed. You are too rich and famous of a person to be like, well, what do you want me to do? Get sued? Fuck that. You take a stand or you're nothing to me. I'm sorry. Not only that, but you knew who McLemore was when you booked him. Apparently, they're friends.

Of course. You know exactly what he's about, what he's been doing on stages. You're not prepared for this? It's just insane to me. It is so cowardly. Let me read you some of McElmore's statement about what happened because I think it's it gets into the details, sort of the nitty-gritty of this news.

I'm not sure how to start this. So I'm going to speak from the heart and share the truth. Ed Shearin and his team have made the decision to remove me from the loop tour. But before I get into it, I want to say something that should be obvious. In this moment, I think it matters. I am not a victim.

Ed Shearin is not a victim. Pink is not a victim. All right. We have careers, money, opportunities, safeties, and audiences around the world. Whatever consequences any of us face for what we say, we get to go home to our families. Yes, the victims are the Palestinian people. The men, women, and children who have been killed, starved, displaced, and forced to live through

unimaginable violence. More than 20,000 children have been killed in Gaza alone. People are being killed today and people will be killed tomorrow. I want to make sure that as I tell this story, we don't lose sight of that. Ed is my friend. I've known him for 13 years. We've shared late nights, studio sessions, and stages. He has this infectious magic about him that I've grown to love. I consider him a brother, and because of that, we've had some difficult conversations this past week, the type of talks rooted in love and respect for one another that still end in a place of fundamental disagreement.

Nothing I'm writing here is out of spite or because I want to tear down his character, but as I told Ed multiple times on the phone, our friendship can't change. my responsibility to tell the truth about what happened. Can a friendship between two multimillionaire superstars survive anti-Zionism? That's right. The age-old question that started six months ago. Last Monday in the middle of all the media attention surrounding Pink and what I said at MetLife, Ed told me that Robert Kraft called him. We were scheduled to play Gillette Stadium later this month, which is owned by the Kraft Group.

Ed told me that Kraft said I would not be allowed to perform in his stadium. Ed also told me that Kraft had rallied some of the other stadium owners and collectively gave him an ultimatum. If McElmore stays on the tour, you will not be allowed to play in our venues. Ed was in a fucked up position. He knew it. His typical apolitical stance was being challenged in a way it never had been before. he told me that the words free Palestine and the images of the Palestinian flag were hurtful to a lot of people he spoke with. I told him that if those words were more offensive than tens of thousands of Palestinian children being killed by Israel,

then there was a fundamental disconnect between where those people stood and where I stood, but he couldn't get past his public facing, quote, I don't take sides. And I get why people don't. Taking aside can cost you. Money, brand deals, sponsorships, festivals, private shows, relationships, and access. I've lost all of those things. But there is no neutral position between the oppressor and the oppressed. On one side has the bombs and bottomless financial and military support from America

refusing to take a side doesn't leave you in the middle. And this is the last page of this. What I said I've met life, I've been saying on stages around the world for almost three years. and why is it an issue now? Because now I'm sharing a stage with one of the biggest artists in the world in some of the biggest stadiums in America. At a certain level of exposure, quote, free Palestine becomes too much of a risk. If I kept doing the shows, sang free Palestine with Ed implicitly supporting it, the crowd getting loud and showing undeniable support for Palestinian liberation, what artists might speak out next? The stage becomes resistance. Maybe that's why this time it became so important. important to silence me. And one of the most effective ways to enforce that silence has been to

weaponize the accusation of anti-Semitism. Antisemitism is real, and that is exactly why the word matters too much to be used as a shield against criticism of the Israeli state. When criticizing Israel, opposing Zionism or saying free Palestine gets conflated with hatred of Jewish people, it doesn't protect Jewish people. It protects Israel from accountability. I hope this isn't the end of my relationship with Ed. 13 years of friendship doesn't disappear because one of one painful disagreement. I hope we both continue listening, studying what is happening in Palestine and wrestling with what neutrality means in a moment like this. My door always be open to continuing that conversation.

When my brother Omar was doing the subtitles for the video I posted for MetLife, I thanked him and told him there's an Arabic phrase. La Shukra Allah wajib. There is no thanks for a dude. That stayed with me, not because of what this has become for me and millions of others around the world, a duty, not something deserving of praise or gratitude. Not brave, human. Who is winning the internet? Who is getting canceled? Who gets to play the stadiums and who doesn't?

All of it becomes so small when held against what we are actually witnessing in Gaza and the West Bank, an entire people being displaced, starved, killed. While the world debates which words we are allowed to use to describe it. those words make us feel and whether our discomfort matters more than the people living through a genocide you just used the word you just used the word the debate wasn't over mcclmore you said we were debating it and then you just went and slipped it in there you just said it wasn't consensual like it's not the word i'm against i didn't need 10 shows from ed i needed two two chances to stand up in front of 90 000 people and say the words that somehow became too dangerous to say free palestine but if those words cost me the stage while turning the conversation back to Palestine, then it was the most successful

tour I've ever been on. Be powerful stuff. Fucking great statement. It really is, it really is a great statement. I mean, it is, and it just, it is a gut punch. It really is. Like, this was something that I knew could happen. And after watching the videos of what he actually.

said, part of me was feeling a little bit like, you know, they won't be able to justify this. Like, Ed's not going to be able to justify this to himself. The promoter's not going to be able to justify this. Even the stadium owners who probably don't like what he said, they'd have to explain themselves for canceling that, no, no, not at all. It's just, you know, this, it's not surprising, but that doesn't mean it doesn't shock the system when I see it. It just goes to show the relative tininess of even the biggest names.

Like the power does not rest with fame. It does not rest with celebrity. It does not rest with individuals. And it doesn't rest with even being hired, getting a gig. You can lose it at any time. And I think his analysis is very right that. And, you know, if he, one of the things that surprised me, worried me for him about the way he did it is that I'm so glad to get up here because now I get

to say two words that I've wanted to say on a stage, free Palestine with a raised fist, right? He didn't start with there's a genocide going on and I really think we need to be upset because our government is doing it. He starts with the slogan. He starts with the, he starts with the, the big ticket message. That's a big choice. I probably wouldn't do that. I would probably try to sneak it in there or build to it or something, like make the case. And then, say it, but he worked his way backward from his principal. And that

got, that's meant to get people's attention, including Robert Crafts. And yeah, he's not going to allow it. He's not, you know, he's meddled with the primal forces of nature. He did. And he, you know, he won't atone, but Ed Shearren will. Yeah, exactly.

Ed Shearin really well. And, you know, he gets into there in that, it, it, honestly, another brave thing for McElmore to do there was to tell like it is when it comes to his friendship with Ed Shear and he's like, listen, we are homies. We've been homies for a while and we fundamentally disagree here. We're homies and my homie is a bitch made

Yes, coward. Coward. And I love him like a brother and he's got no spine. No spine. No spine. No spine. No spine whatsoever and he's also being surrounded by people who are, you know, telling him a, nah, this hurts me. You need to do something about this. That's what happens at that level.

You don't get to that level. Yeah. Unless you're willing to be swept up and chaperoned through fame by a group of you know, we think about yes men, yes people, right? But they're also there to be no people. Yeah. They are leading you

by the hand. That's what they're doing. And they're making it like they're just, you know, stroking you and giving you a manicure. But they're pulling you in that fucking direction. And, you know, his, I like that McElmore did not allow Ed to continue this farce of I am neutral. And he did so by saying, hey, this is the decision that was made in the, you know, in the name of neutrality. I was let go for saying free Palestine. That's. what happened. Ed allowed himself to be bullied by these powers who, you know, have this endless amount of money and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and so, no, uh, no name. Like, Robert Kraft is the most famous of all of them, also because he's an

NFL team owner, and he also, uh, famously was, uh, arrested for getting a hand job. Um, and so, like, you know, he's, he's got some fame. He's got some name. He's got some name. but the rest of these fucking guys, nobody knows the fuck they are. People know who Ed Shearren is. He's famous enough that he can fill a fucking 90,000 seated stadium. And he's pretending like, well, I needed to be neutral. It's fucking cowardice. That's all it is.

And that's why for today's episode, I wanted to play you guys something. I just want to say real quick that if for some reason this starts and ends immediately, it's because YouTube had to demonetize it. And you can find the full song at the end or on Patreon. So patreon.com slash badass bar. That's all these episodes uncut, you know. But you'll probably get a little bit of it if you're listening on Spotify or YouTube. So here is a little bit of Ed Shearin for all y'all.

I had to make the video real quick. right because they spent all the time on the lyrics the Jewish state is the best place to find an open north for me to replace my mind his ain't iron his chin and soy but trust me give it a chance now symbols crash stop and green black wants me back up and watch a cheer and dance now I'm thinking like girl you know I'm scared as I just

went we lost the palace and be a magic news good stuff good stuff good stuff. If you guys didn't get to hear that. If you didn't get to hear it, then yeah, just go to Patreon and subscribe. Why not? You got parody songs.

And who doesn't like that? Parity songs. Anyways, fuck at you're in. Adam just sent us word that Jacob Fortinsky followed him. Is that you, Adam, that he followed? Remind us who Jacob Fortinsky is. we were looking at him before. This is the guy who runs the fucking, the gambling website.

Oh, wow. Okay. No big man. Yeah, yeah. The one who put Hatikva into the thing. He just followed you? That's awesome. Uh-oh.

Well, that'll be fun. Adam, all of a sudden, is going to start putting, like, lyrics in Hebrew to Hatikva in the lower thirds. That's we'll know that Novig got him. Yeah. Oh, no. why is there just a constant bed of a teakva? Just in the background of everything. Is that Jerusalem of gold?

Guys, I'm rethinking a lot of things. Yeah, yeah. Adam's going to be headlining the Novig Festival. That's right. Very good. Very good. It's a peace festival. So speaking of peace and love festivals, I saw this just randomly.

I was watching a clip of Norm Finkelstein, who it just turns out today, he's on Tucker Carlson. Oh, look at that. He'll go on Tucker Carlsson. Carlson, who he talks about is problematic. He has not come on this show. I'm fucking throwing down the gauntlet. Oh, yeah.

What the hell, Norm? Come on, Norm. Yeah. What did we ever do to you besides do bad impressions? We'll do the fucking great replacement theory. Whatever you need. We got you. We got you, too.

I'm kidding. So what about? So what about? So Finkelstein was on Hassan Piker, and I was watching just a clip of it, and they were captions. and it produced one of my favorite auto-caption typos of all time. Just look at this. That was...

That was... I was advertised as a free love festival. He was talking about the, what he called the Supernova Festival. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He always gets it wrong. And he said, it was advertised as a free love festival, but the caption says,

I was advertised as a free love festival. And if you look at what he's wearing... Honestly, he looks good. He is fashion-mogging, Hassan Piker. in that shirt and that blazer. That is a good shirt, dude. Yes. Supernova is the name of a Scott festival

that happened yesterday. Couldn't? Did anyone invade it at him? Were there any paraglider? No, okay, never mind. No? Okay. So just regular, yes.

It just went off without a hitch? Okay. He looks great. He looks great. He looks great. He looks great. He's a free love festival. And it would be a free love festival.

It would be a free love fest if you ever came on this show, Norm. If you ever damed. Absolutely. If you have dained to stoop to our level. That's right. If you want to get down in the dirt with the hogs. With Mr. Lieberman and Mr. Matheson, we are here.

That's right. We're here, dude. We're here ready to get yelled at or something, but slowly. No, he'd have a great time. Just finishing up this Ed Shearhan stuff, you know, we'll see what comes of this. I think at the end of the day, the pressure on Ed Shearin from actual human beings, like the ones who all cheered when McElmore said Free Palestine, is not going to be louder to add than the small handful of billionaire Zionists

who are going to be patting them on the back and the maintaining relationships with people like Pink. Real quick to get into the Pink's contribution into this, Pink was brought into the McElmore discourse because of the fact that she made a conversation. comment, I think, on something, you know, an Instagram post that called out Ed Shearren and she, you know, wrote unacceptable or some bullshit like that. And she ended up getting yelled at for this. People were, you know, mad that once again, Pink, who has been fairly active in

some of the Hasbara media in the last three years, was once again using her platform. form to try to, you know, say that killing kids in Palestine is actually not that bad and needs to happen. And she, because she got yelled at for saying that McElmore was bad or whatnot, yes, so she wrote, this is not acceptable. This is something that she wrote in a comment. And it said, Pink condemns McElmore's hateful propaganda and calls out Ed Sheeran for allowing it on stage. The funny thing about this is this was, again, in a comment that she wrote, and it was pumped out by all of the pro-Israel advocacy groups. You know, you got your APEX, your IACs. You know, they all were picture of pink and look at this hero who's telling McElmore, you know, shut up about kids.

She ended up getting yelled at by some people and because of that she put out a statement of which, What do you say? Pink, please stop putting two in me and one somewhere else. Oh, come on, man. Adam. Adam. This is a lost episode of Bad Hasbara. No, no, no. No. So Pink put out a statement about the fact that people are mad at her for her advocacy. I'm only going to read a little bit of it because truly I can only read so much, you know, before I

start losing my mind. And look at this. Jesus Christ. She did this on fucking Instagram. The fucking Tanakh? What like I know straight up. It's a scroll, dude. It's very annoying to me that she is, decides like, I'm going to make my statement in a fucking Instagram caption. And then when

I run out of space, I'm going to go into the comments. Just, just write it. At least fucking McElmore opened a Google Doc. What are we doing? Anyways, I'm just going to read some of it until I get too annoyed to read. I've been quiet. I'm already mad.

I've been quiet in my own words for a week, which you know isn't like me. So here they are. Last Sunday, I reposted somebody else's post about McElmore's set at an Edsurance show. It said things in words, I didn't write, and I wouldn't have chosen all of them. Then the comments came, and I did what I do when I'm. hurt, which is post snarky memes and act like I'm fine. That's on me. It reposts in a statement. A meme isn't a spine. Social media makes all of us cheap and fast, and we all know it. Yada, yada, yada. I was born a Jew. I didn't pick it and I've never hidden it. And this week,

a whole lot of people decided what I believe without asking me, without checking a single thing I've ever said or done because a repost and the word Jew were apparently enough to fill in the rest. But let me fill it in myself. I'm going to stop you right there. Pink

has not been ambiguous about where she stands with this. Pink has done videos with Noah Tishby. Pink has made multiple statements condemning people who other artists who have

come out and said free Palestine or that they support Palestine or that they're against genocide. She is always asked and she always delivers a condemnation of people. That's what she's been doing for the past three years. So this idea of like, no one even asked me if I like genocide or not. You've made it clear. You've made it very clear to people. So no one is filling in these gaps by being like, oh, I guess I assume that she likes Israel. No, you've said it. You've said as much. I'll continue reading a little bit more of this.

Of course, I don't speak for Israel or any government. I never have. What I said on October 23 is still exactly what I believe. Hamas is a terrorist organization. Palestinians deserve a future that honors their humanity and their aspirations. I'm sorry, but like this fucking mealy mouth, Palestinians deserve a future that honors their humanity. How about don't kill them? You know, it's just this fucking liberal hogwash. Right. And also. You need to be honored in a plaque after you get fucking slaughtered.

And as for aspirations, while the Zionist view about Palestinian aspiration is that they just want to kill every Jew. Right. So what aspirations are you talking about? The aspiration, well, okay, their aspiration for coexistence. No, they don't have that aspiration. I mean, if coexistence is what it looks like, many Palestinians would live with that. but their aspiration is freedom and justice. It's life.

It's safety. It's being able to live on their land freely. Yes. In whatever form that can take. And that's for them to decide what's acceptable to them. Pink gets to pretend. Pink gets to pretend and all liberal Zionists get to pretend that the aspirations, like the people in charge of deciding which aspirations are valid are them.

That Pink herself. The aspirations actually have to be part from like the Asper Foundation. Like is the Asper? Yeah, exactly. Yes, a bland acknowledgment. A bland acknowledgment. Thank you, Adam. That's exactly right.

That's about a third of the way to redemption for your little. Oh, no. He's going to delete that other one. People will not know that. People are like, whoa, shit. What did he say? You're not even getting that on Patreon. Just kidding.

Protecting innocent life comes first. everywhere and nobody should ever celebrate the death of a child, anybody's child. I've spent a decade as a UNICEF ambassador for kids who didn't choose the country of the war they were born into, and I have grieved every one of them. In fact, I was so outraged by that that I pioneered an exchange program so that kids from one genocide written area could exchange with kids from another and go to fight out how those kids are suffering and dying. That's right.

After she says this, she goes, I breathed every one of them on both sides of that fence. And I didn't do it from behind a screen. I went to those children and held them. I'm sorry. What fence? Well, it's a security fence. It's the security fence.

But certainly not the ones that separate the West Bank and 48, or the ones that surround Gaza. But yeah, I've grieved every one of them on both sides of that fence. Mm-hmm. And I'm not going to litigate a complex war in an Instagram caption. Sorry, but you are. And I'm not going to recite anybody's slogan to earn back a follower. That's right.

In fact, you're going to condemn someone for doing a slogan that you don't agree with. This is like Bray Brown's like bipolar sister or something. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like the much less nice, much less conciliatory, much less trying to seem soft and vulnerable version of a kind of, I'm not going to take sides. But the way I speak will reveal who I think is human. Yes.

And beyond that, like she is at all points beyond the way she speaks. It's also the fucking the way she has acted and continues to act. It's fucking insane. And then she tries to say, look, I got cred. I was against the Iraq war and I had a song about it. Dear Mr. President, guys, I'm sorry. Pink, not one of the figures, the anti-Iraq War figures that is known. Not like, what are we doing?

Phil Donahue, Dixie Chicks. Yeah. Yes. Pink was very employed during this time. Meanwhile, the Dixie Chicks did have things like what's happening currently to McElmore. happened to them. So fuck off with this like, you know, I spoke when it counted bullshit. And then she's like, you know, I'm cool with gay kids.

I'm cool with trans kids. I'm cool with all sorts of people. Why do I also have to be cool of Palestinians? That's me paraphrasing. It just goes on and on. Honestly, it is, it is. If those Palestinian kids want my sympathy, they could easily become gay or trans. That's right.

Exactly. Just do that. No. And that would be. I was thinking that this, I mean, I knew, yeah, I knew pink was washed, but I didn't know pink was going to do pink wash any. Wow, that is so real. She does straight up pink wash in this. That is wild because she talks about, you know, standing with gay people and standing with trans people and all of this stuff over and over as a way to kind of say like, oh, you know, if I'm thinking.

doing this and I'm not supporting Palestinians, what does that say about Palestinians? Because you know full well that she is bought into the same Zionist lie that Arabs are just born genetically reactionary, that they are conservative. And due to that, they are, you know, worthy of being disregarded. This is a constant pink washing. I just, you know, I guess it's just a little on the nose that it's from someone named pink. Pink who's washed. Yes. So she, of course, you know, goes on to talk about how McElmore was, wore that suit that was

anti-Semitic, you know, the anti-Semitic costume that she. He got it at the thrift shop. Yeah. She magnanimously forgave him for, but then forgave no more after he was like, hey, can we stop killing kids, please? So it's just a, it's just a bunch of liberal pinkwashing bullshit. And it's pink washing herself, too. That's what she's doing.

And finally, I just read these parts right here. That's what prompted my reposts, not free Palestine, and not anyone's right to say it. I've never asked for another artist to be silence, and I'm not asking now. I don't need anyone fired, and I don't need a refund. Wait, what? Were you there? What I need is to be able to say as a Jewish mom, quote, that scared me. Oh, to say as a Jewish mom, quote, that scared me.

And it scared people I love, close quote. Thanks for sharing. You just said it. Without being told that our fear is just propaganda and without being told that I'm somehow cool with genocide because I noticed. Listen, Pink, and I know you're listening, you are cool with genocide. that's a fact it's just true the fact that you find it more scary when someone speaks out against genocide uh then actual genocide that spells it out how can anyone read that any other way

this dance that people do when they are forced into a position to explain why they're supporting israel three fucking years into a genocide where they go like well you don't know my exact beliefs or what's in my deep heart, my, you know, deep dark heart, I actually am against genocide. Yeah, this is the pink brown alliance, if you know what I mean. Yes, though. Yes. It is. Because that's exactly Jesse Brown's approach.

Yes, 100%. It is the exact same thing. Adam, that's not what I was saying. Calm down. I missed it. I missed it. There's such a thing as being a little. to porn-brained for a podcast.

So the point is, is that we, these people pretend to be cagey. They pretend to be hard to read. They pretend to be neutral. Ed Shearin's doing the same thing. Oh, I'm neutral. I just want no politics and for everyone to get along. I don't want war or politics.

And then Hatikva's playing in the background, like the fucking Sidney-Sweeney thing. The, I mean, he put it perfectly. Macklemore really did put it perfectly when he talked about the, you know, oppressors and the oppressed and neutrality, the way that, like, you can't be neutral in a genocide, you know? You can't be a centrist on a moving train or whatever, you know? Well, right. You also just notice how much better his writing is, too. Yeah.

I know. Like, he can string together a thought, a sentence, a paragraph, and a series of paragraphs. It's well composed. it's thoughtful it's pretty devastating and hers is just a kind of like spinning out defensive self-absorbed

incoherent yes a very unself-aware rant right and it's defensive in a way that calls into question the entire veracity of the things that she's saying because we can tell that this is everything she's doing

is in is a defensive move against whatever voices in her head or the voices that she's read in these comments sections are saying she needs to pump up her anti-war credentials and whatnot. She needs to tell people how liberal she is and how much she supports all these other marginalized groups. This is, it just shows. It's that that pep. It's that progressive except Palestine.

It is that shit. And it's so insidious because it's. because it is fundamentally a pro-genocide stance, whether or not they want to believe it. It is. That's how it is. And what was the result of it? The result of Pink and the ADL,

Jonathan Greenblatt, all of these organizations that exist primarily with endless fucking barrels of money to stop people from being pro-Palestine. Got McElmore, fired. She said, oh, I don't want anyone fired. Well, if you didn't want anyone fired, I think you know full well what you could have done, which is not say fucking anything. You know, let yourself be offended. But that's not what she did. And we know why. So she can pretend otherwise, but it's not

true. We need to take a break. But we're going to continue a conversation about the cultural war and the culture war and also the propaganda war that is currently taken place, you know, in general. And that's why we saved, we saved the heaviest for last. It's going to be, it's going to be a doozy of a, it's going to be a doozy of a back end. Yes, that is. Could do something with that statement, but we're not going to let them. Everyone stick around. We'll be right. Back. Back. This episode is brought to you by Hala, Palis. That's right, guys, we finally did it. We got an ad.

And I'm very excited about this one because this is a great company. The people of Palestine have been making soap the same way for generations. And usually using just olive oil, baking soda, and water. In Nablus, home to one of the world's first known soap factories, they make this exact soap, the Al-Jamal, the camel. And I was sent this one and as well as others from that. Yeah, isn't this nice? This is from Hala Palestine. This is the Nabilis pure olive oil soap.

And this is another one of theirs with the, if you see there, it's got the keys on it. It's really, really cool. And I was also sent this beautiful kaffia by today's sponsor, Hala Palestine. Hala, yeah, and I believe I've been sent some of that as well, but I will receive it when I get home in a few weeks because I'm out on the road right now, but I'm grateful and excited to sample these wears. So Hala Palestine is an online store

where you can get all kinds of Palestinian crafts, clothing, and traditionally produced olive oil soaps, all handmade in Palestine and delivered to your door. And that kaffia that they sent you, Matt, it's woven in Palestine, not some factory overseas. And I can't wait to see you wearing it in... Yeah. I will wear it, but I wanted to wait until we recorded the ad to show it just because it just comes in this nice package.

And because it's got a little printout of where it was made, how it was made. And, you know, it's nice to, I wanted to do the unboxing here on the ad. Well, then rip it open while I read the next few sentences. Yeah, you go ahead. When I'm choosing anything like this, you know, products from the region, products displaying Palestinian culture, it's especially important. I want to know that my purchase supports Palestinian artisans and their families, not just companies trying to make a buck off the Palestine struggle or Palestinian identity or Palestinian iconography or whatever.

And at Halif Palestine, you know, we know full well that our purchases are doing just that. They're supporting actual Palestinian artisans and their families. That's right. You can feel good about shopping with that. That's right. And in Arabic, Hala. means welcome. And that's the feeling I get from these, you know, great pieces that Hall of Palestine sent me. This is the beautiful Kaffaia. I love this so much. This material is just incredibly soft. And, you know, of course, I love the design, the trees. It's beautiful. And, you know, just the the feel of it is nice. And speaking of welcome when we were in Jordan, the hospitality of our Palestinian hosts was so much. And they literally say when you walk, when you're meeting someone,

they'll say, you are welcome. Yes, they do. They do. And like... You haven't thanked them for anything, but they're just letting you know you are welcome. That's right. That's right. Yeah. So you can get a 10% discount. A 10% discount on any of the great products at halapalestine.com with the offer code bad hasbarah. That's right. You can feel good about where your money is going when you shop at halapalistine.com. I think I almost said chala. It's halal. Halah. Ha. They taught us how to say that age when we were there too.

That's right. They try to unha. You know, they're like get that God. them kh out of there. Stop putting hush and stuff. They said imagine opening a can of soda. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Halapalistan. There is. And use the code bad hasbara.

That's H-A-L-A-Palistine.com. Offer code bad hasbara for 10% off. Thank you so much to Hala Palestine for this beautiful kaffia and for the soaps. And now back to our regularly. scheduled program. And we're back as badass bar of the world's most moral podcast.

How are you doing, Daniel? I'm doing good. How are you? I'm doing all right. I talked a lot during that last segment, and you know what? Maybe it's time for me to, I don't know, give the floor. My dear dear friend, Daniel, Monte.

A little vocal rest for you. Well, I want you to chime in whenever you want to. I'm going to chime in a lot because I've I have a lot to say about this. You have a lot to say about this. So we're going to spend the rest of this show talking about, I think a very interesting, discursive moment, and an interesting moment in the sort of range of topics

that this show covers. I think it's very illuminating. It's a little spicy because, you know, we don't spend a lot of time on this podcast, critically examining anti-Zionist tactics and rhetoric. and dissenting from and objecting to certain positions within that movement. I think any broad-based movement is going to have a lot of strategic and tactical disagreements, but this podcast is not a movement show.

It's an anti-Zionist satire show, and the Hasbara industry gives us more than enough material for two episodes a week, more than we can possibly do with. So we usually decide when there is some kind of controversy, you know, it's just not our lane and it's not worth getting into it. It's also not that funny. In this case, we're not doing it for the lulls, but I think there are lulls to be had. But I think it's actually, it's rather serious and interesting and hopefully illuminating for everyone listening and for the two of us. So, yeah, so we're talking about the outcry, the multi-sided

outcry, the full stereo, the full surround sound outrage. Round sound, baby. Goll be digital. Yeah, exactly. THX. Remember the THS? Yeah, yeah, TX? Yeah, dude, we're getting fucking barrage, a wall of sounding off right now.

That's right. Yeah. A wall of sounding off. It's very good. That's great. See, I'm good, too. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes when I quarterback, you get to pun.

Yeah, that's what I'm doing. When you're quarterbacking, I'm just, I'm not listening to your words. No, you're getting ready for the bit. Yeah. The bit, yeah. So great, let's keep going. That's fun. Yeah.

Over the new documentary, which just premiered at and won the special jury prize at the Venice Film Festival, namely Naza. Now, just to get it out of the way for anyone wondering, what is this title, Naza, which sounds like some kind of weird play on Nazi and Gaza. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just one of these unfortunate coincidences of Israeli Hebrew that N-Z, or Noun-Sadi, with the vowels attached, is an acronym. it's not got nothing to do with Gaza for the words collateral damage like Sahal is the acronym for IDF the words making up the phrase

Aerial Defense Forces becomes Tsahal. Naza is the phrase for collateral damage it's been in use for decades and it's heavily involved in if it's not the name of the technology discussed in this film I'm unclear on that

But the film is made by Yuval Abraham and Rachel Sore, who are two of the directors of no other land. They're obviously the two Jewish-Israeli directors of it. The Palestinian directors of it were busy having their villages destroyed, and in no world would have been able to make a film like this. And they filmed it in secret, kind of like Nathan Fielder with Elizabeth Holmes, over the past year in Tel Aviv, under cover of night, filming interviews with anonymized Israeli military people, drone operators,

Air Force people, intelligence people, commanders, who spoke on condition of anonymity, testifying to, confessing to, I don't know how guiltily, but basically giving a kind of testimony about and blowing the whistle on the systems, the mechanics, the digital AI mechanics of genocide, which target and our code named NASA, they target civilian homes. And they, again, I haven't seen it. I just bought my ticket to see it at the New York Film Festival in two weeks. So I'll be able to give you a full review then.

But the sense I get is that it's a very dry and grim series of interviews of people just admitting to the war crimes they participated in, not as individuals, but as carrying out a systemic policy. implementing very, very carefully designed technology, which can track exactly who's in a civilian home when they're there, when they're not there. And we've known about the... It sounds like Breaking the Silence the Movie. You know, like Breaking the Silence is this Israeli organization

that interviews former IDF soldiers who are going... I'm not sure how often they are on record or if they are anonymized with Breaking the Silence either. I'm not really sure. Many of them are anonymized. Yes. Yeah, I imagine quite a few are anonymized and very pretty rarely does anyone reporting an actual war crime show their face and admit that it is they themselves who are doing it. But that's what it sounds like to me from the description.

Yes. Although I should say that a nonprofit organization that speaks mostly in Hebrew, they do American tours. But Breaking the Silence definitely has this goal of trying to. to wake Israelis up to what their government is doing, and they have for a long time. And we can see, and a lot of Palestinians have pointed this out, and I was having a conversation with Ronnie Barkan, Israeli-born Jewish, although he doesn't identify as Jewish or Israeli anymore,

lives in Europe now, who likens Yuval Abraham and the making of this film to breaking the silence in a pejorative way, which is to say it exists to run cover for launder and anonymize and thus protect the identities of people so they can't be brought to justice. I see it differently because when it comes to a documentary film that's going to screen, it's going to debut at a major international film festival and will be seen internationally,

I think documenting these things at the highest level has, whether or not we know the names of the individuals being interviewed, they're not the, you know, they're the low-level soldiers. They're not Barksdale and Stringer. You know, we're building, we're building something here and all the pieces matter. That's how I feel about it. Right. I have this long review of it.

They're interviewing Bodie and they're interviewing Poot, you know. That's right. Right. Right. Now, if you want guns and drugs on the table, so you can feel good that we nabbed someone and the accountable. But, like, people have been, well, we'll get into what the discourse has been. I don't want to jump the gun on this.

But, yeah, there has been a lot of conversation about, well, What is the value of anonymous sources? I think of investigative journalism throughout history that has broken things like the Milai massacre and a whole lot of other things which rely on anonymous testimony, which nonetheless is instrumental in either building the case that will bring people to justice or at the very least, and this is how you and I think of ourselves, we're in some kind of propaganda war, we're in a counter-hazbaro war. You and I are not part of the resistance.

you and I are not on that planet in Andor. I think we're living in Andor not Avatar. That's my view. This is not a story in which it's going to be, you know, the blue indigenous people who are going to rise up and against all the odds, take down their imperial colonial racist oppressors with the help of a few class traders like Jix Sully.

We're living in much more of a thing where there's multiple star systems, multiple planets, totally different material realities, different leverage points, different points of entry, different abilities to make a contribution coming from different sectors. And some of those sectors would never speak to each other if they had the choice because they totally disagree. They have totally, and they have vicious arguments about what's important.

But somehow, some kind of organization, or at least everyone making that little contribution to move towards the day when we can hit the empire at its weakest points, strikes me as the better model for where we're at, right? So when it comes to that, that reaches one of the, the core points of disagreement here is does an Israeli journalist, filmmaker, artist, activist like Yuval Abraham, who doesn't seem to be the kind of guy to shout free Palestine in front of 90,000 people or anywhere, and who doesn't talk about destroying his entire country,

although he does talk about, I want to replace the system with whatever it needs to be peace and justice, but he doesn't talk in the radical language that we'd like. Can he make a contribution? Is there something he can do? And what he's done, and him and Rachel Shore have done is to make this film. And they presented at the Venice Film Festival. And it got a 25-minute standing ovation, which narrowly... There's this weird thing with these film festivals. I think specifically Venice is that works are judged by how long the standing ovation goes on,

which is, I think, one of the more grotesque spectacles that I think you can see is a bunch of people seeing how long they can clap for the fucking, you know, the next Paddington movie or whatever. Like, it's just, it's a very weird thing that's done. And in a now famous viral video, you see them both receiving that accolade. And the reaction to that on all sides has been interesting. And it's kind of the subject of what we're talking about. And if you look at it, they look extremely uncomfortable. And from what I was told, I read a third.

read that said who from someone who worked on the film they were they initially wanted to leave after the screening they didn't want to stick around for that Dylan from the Trafe podcast formerly of the Trafe podcast and now a 972 plus magazine yeah very good yeah uh who but but they were advised by people close to them that they should stay and be part of that that moment even if it's uncomfortable and they look they look sick actually and then when you've al abraham spoke when they received a special jury prize, he used his speech to say this is a complicated experience for me to accept this. The story we're telling was told by Gazan journalists three years ago, but 200 of them been killed. A Palestinian filmmaker could have made this.

He said that in the six days since we got to Venice, six Palestinian children have been killed, and he cited the circumstances. So he did what he could in that moment to counter, which the critical. which he knew was going to come at him for centering himself, centering Palestinians. But nonetheless, the optics of two Israelis standing there and being applauded for their bravery. And truly, as I think you're pointing to, they're not being applauded for their bravery. They're being applauded for Europeans' feeling of their own bravery for being at a film festival and watching political films.

It's the most European thing. I guess maybe they do it in the States too. I mean, we also venerate filmmakers here, too. It's also, I mean, the liberal, making statements you know, post genocide about any conflict is

there's going to be standing ovation for your movie about the Mili Massacre or your movie about the Holocaust and whatnot. From Libs, this is how it is. They're applauding themselves. They applaud themselves. If anyone

wants to film themselves giving this episode of standing ovation, you have to watch, listen all the way to the end. You can't just do it in the middle of it. That's right, yes. But we do require that. But if you want to film yourself sending that in, we will send out a prize to whoever does the longest standing over here. Yeah, you'll get the same medal that Chris Brown got from Jasmine Crockett. So anyway, them's worthy optics. Yes. And that was what set it off. Now, we're going to get into the topic of pro-Palestine people who were not so happy about this and who had a lot to say

about it. But first, this is Baddha's Barrow. We want to look at the Hasbarati. Yeah, right. The people with power. The people with power. Yeah. Of the two critics, the pro-Palestine critics of Yuval and the movie in general and the pro-Israel, this is the side with the power.

They have the power. I'd say both sides have influence, but only one side has the power. Yes. Influence within discourse. Sure. It's a nebulous compared to the power we're about to, you know, talk about. That is correct. So we're first going to look at some of the hardline Zionist reactions. Here's Benny Gantz. And by the way, none of these are from the current right-wing government. These are all from the would-be replacements to the right-wing government.

These are from the centrists. Yes, that's right, baby. Those behind the movie have never set foot in the battlefield, nor do I ever wish they will have to do so but fighting in the most just war since Israel's reestablishment reestablishment reestablishment reestablishment i assume that's the 48 or 67 i don't know he means 48 no of course he's talking bible yeah is israel 1 was crazy israel 1.0 was crazy against a murderous group capable and willing to murder women and children the idf upholds itself to the highest moral and legal standard. I'm sorry. I'm just reading the part against a murderous group capable and willing to murder

women and children, the IDF. That's all I'm reading. Yeah, if we could just take that line. Murderous group, given willing, murder willing, children, the idea. Yeah, yeah. Base Benny. Thanks, thanks to Twitter formatting there. As former IDF chief of staff and minister of defense, I can unequivocally attest to that. Anyone who lacks this basic understanding should just keep on making fiction. Okay. All right. So very dismissive.

Here's Nafthali Bennett, another stalwart centrist alternative to a genocidal maniacs. Got to get rid of Netanyahu. So this guy can also be pro-genocide. Yesterday, a film accusing Israel of genocide premiered. It's a horrific blood libel against our sons and daughters. What makes it especially painful and infuriating is that this lie came from Israeli filmmakers and is now being spread around the world. At this point, they're just saying.

these Israelis are doing anti-Semitism and it's like the term means nothing. That's what we're doing. That's what we're doing. Okay, cool. Well, he wants us to get the facts straight. On October 7th, Hamas invaded Israel

to murder Jews. Hamas terrorists, slaughtered children in front of their parents and parents in front of their children. They burned homes, raped women, they did neither of those things, and kidnapped babies. They kidnapped, I think, one baby.

The only baby who died. on that day was accidentally shot through a wall and the others were killed by Israeli health fire missiles I believe. Children and elderly people. Then Hamas fled back to Gaza and deliberately hid behind its own civilians using them as human shields in homes, schools and hospitals. That's our job. And when Israel fights back and civilians are tragically killed in this terrible war... Tragic. Israel is killed, accused of genocide. There is no

magic button that can destroy Hamas or any terrorist organization hiding behind civilians. But there is a magic button that can create more Hamas, and that's what we're trying to do here in Gaza. Right. There's no magic button that can destroy them without harming a single civilian. It simply

does not exist. So that's why we've invented thousands of magic buttons that can kill civilians in the hope that will destroy Hamas in the process. That's why we've invented magic words that turn civilian into a non-entity and everyone into Hamas. That's the magic.

button words like blood libel. That's right. In interviews with the international media, I always ask, what would you do? They never have an answer. You know what's funny? It's like, yeah, it's because you're probably being interviewed by some fucking, you know, someone who works for a Zionist entity that's going to say, hey, you better not fucking say anything too big.

Because anyone normal person would say, oh, I don't know. How about something between nothing and genocide? That's what a normal person would have said and did say. at the beginning of it. It's like, uh, or end the, or end the occupation. Yeah. There's, there's always, uh, like this idea that like people can never answer the question. What would, what should Israel have done? And it's like, no, people are answering that all the time. You just think it's anti-Semitic. Yeah. You just think that it's unacceptable that the answer to, uh, you know, what to do after October 7th is, uh, I don't know, maybe stop being a racist fucking apartheid state that's keeping these

people in an open-air prison. That'll actually help a lot with the whole they want to break out and fucking go to war with you. Maybe take some responsibility for once for the situation you've created. They never have an answer, but also the people he's talking about never have a follow-up question either.

That's right. All right. Next slide, this is part two of Nuffelli Bennett. If Israel wanted to hurt the people of Gaza, we would not send our sons and daughters to fight house to house. Oh, such garbage through alleyways and tunnels. at the terrible cost of our own soldiers being killed and wounded.

These motherfuckers have turned Gaza into a fucking giant rubble graveyard using drones, using fucking artillery. They have been doing their best to not be near anything that they think is inhabited, unless it's inhabited by civilians they can snipe. The world's most cowardly fucking army. Right. Right. We would not send our sons and daughters to fight house to house. We would also not send our daughters to go house to house into abandoned houses, piss on the walls, write anti-Muslim, anti-Arab graffiti, dress up in lingerie, steal their food, do TikTok dance videos, you know, detonate other houses in the neighboring area and dedicated to their infant daughters. If we really wanted to destroy Gazans, we would do that shit from the comfort of our kids. couches in Tel Aviv.

Yes. Fuck you. We would not warn civilians before strikes and evacuate. I mean, they're just resurrecting 2024 bullshit, right? The war in Gaza is terrible. The death of every child is a tragedy. And we have caused 1,200 tragedies per day.

But a terrible war is not genocide. Even now, Hamas doesn't regret October 7th. It's rearming and waiting for another opportunity to carry out a masker. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. The people standing between us and the next massacre are soldiers and reservists, our sons and daughters who put their lives at risk so that we can live here safely. I love them. I am proud of them. I am deeply grateful to them. To portray them as perpetrators of genocide is not courageous art. It is a cowardly blood libel, and I will not

remain silent. Right. It's they themselves who are doing so. I'm sorry, but like you're talking about, you're mad at this documentary, you know, because of the fact that it's the soldiers themselves who are going on camera, anonymous as they are, and talking about all of the genocide that they are perpetrating. They're not being portrayed by the filmmaker. They themselves are telling on themselves. Right.

And they are anonymizing themselves, unlike the Israeli soldiers who named themselves, filmed themselves, front-facing, full faces, doing the things. That's right. Yeah. And did so with impunity. Right. And not only that, but Nafthali Bennett is not really mad for their sons and daughters,

because he knows that this film points the finger at way above them, which is him and its government and the systems they knowingly use. The IDF went so far as to try to debunk one claim from a clip from the movie. This is completely false. The IDF has never planned, approved, or carry out a strike in Gaza in which 500 civilians we have a hard cap at 498 or anything near that number were anticipated to be killed. Nor was a credible claim raised

throughout the war suggesting that the IDF strike had caused anything near that number of fatalities. And here's where they get into some fun fuzzy logic. The filmmakers couldn't possibly verify this claim. There is no real supporting evidence

and yet they published it anyway. Additionally, nothing about the interviewee, nor his service, nor his role can be independently checked and verified. Oh, damn, that must suck. Yeah. And they're doing this dual thing of both it's totally false, it's unverifiable, and it's classified. So it's illegal to talk about it. Right, yeah.

And also, can you please give us the name and address of the people who said this? Because we just want to prove that they're lying. That's all we want to do. Yeah, and we have ways to make them talk. We have ways to, you know, we have crocodiles for that. I just want them to sign this, you know, this form real quick that relinquishes of them of their rights to live. Yeah, we just want them to sign this DNR, I mean NDA. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean both. No such strike was ever planned, approved, or carried out, yet this is the claim the filmmakers chose to promote their movie with. Judge the rest accordingly. Yeah, thank you at IDF. Yeah. So now we get into some galaxy brain takes from non-affiliated. or, you know, non-institutional Zionists. I don't know who Adam Fisher is, but this was fantastic.

Regarding this film, one, Naza is Hebrew for collateral damage or unintended civilian casualties. There would be no reason to assess, count, or consider Naza if the intention weren't to minimize or avoid it. Right? So the fact, so the word collateral damage was invented, not as a euphemism for the thing that we're happy to do, but as a watchword so we can try not to do it. That's right. Yeah. That's great logic.

We had to remind people that it's bad to have collateral damage. That's why we named it that. That's, yeah, totally makes sense. This is particularly difficult against an enemy of Hamas for whom collateral damage means the same Palestinian civilian casualties. Israel is trying to avoid. Number two. Yeah. Number two.

Hamas doesn't concern itself with assessing Israeli civilian casualties because civilians are among. So why should we? I mean, we do. I mean, we do. That's what I meant. To avoid any misunderstanding. its terrorists filmed their atrocities bro and fire hundreds of indiscriminate rockets at Israel

were a third of the population are children okay hold on a second well half of the population in Gaza are children all right Israel's terrorists also filmed their actual atrocities and posted it themselves yeah not on some slack channel or whatever and not and didn't have to be cobbled together deceptively by mouse propagandists. Yeah. But.

No, it's crazy. These guys are... And the indiscriminate rockets have killed one child or something. Those indiscriminate rockets have killed one out of those third of Israeli children. Yeah, but they kill more. They do kill more if they could. That's right. They sure would.

Because we keep killing their children first. That's right. This guy, I love when people say things like this, where they're like, you know, these guys, you know, film their atrocity. as if we don't have this podcast in which we just show them filming their, the IDF filming their atrocities all the time. I'm just like, who are you trying to convince here? You're on a platform that helped people actually see,

as Nazi as fucking, you know, Twitter is now under Elon's ownership, that people help people see all of the fucking videos coming out of Gaza of these Israeli war crimes. So who are you fooling? Who is this for? His third point reiterates the IDF's claim about that there couldn't have been a strike resulting in five of their deaths. Number four, I don't blame outsiders for their ignorance. I don't blame Auslanders for their ignorance. By the way, this is AI generated bullshit.

That's what this is. I'm just looking at this, is Adam R. Fisher and it's got, you know, like this is this is what it is. Whenever it's in this bullet point listed thing like this, I'm always like, all right. So this is one of many fucking sock puppet accounts that the IDF and, you know, Israel likes to employ to do all of their property. Maybe. That's not where my mind goes, but it might be. But regardless, I don't blame outsiders for their ignorance. Most of the liberal world has forgotten what it means to fight a war on the home front.

Its wars are fought with secret commando missions, sterile airstrikes and distant battles. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Those pager attacks were on home soil. the assassinations of every negotiator within a 6,000 mile radius. Yeah. It is much easier to condemn the calculation that justifies an attack knowing innocent people may die when your own family isn't under attack if you don't make it. Five, the film, and here we go.

And here's where some of the critics of Naza from the anti-Zinist side will be able to gain some seeming credence for their claims because the fact of it will be used to try and debunk what the film is. says, the fact that a film like Naza can be made in Israel is itself a sign of a healthy democracy, which is why we have to revoke their citizenship. That's right. Its writers and directors can accuse their own country and fellow citizens of grave wrongdoing

and remain free to make their case. Well, maybe not. Free isn't interesting. Yeah. One thing is guaranteed. We will never see a Palestinian film about Hamas's atrocity is on October 7th, nor even an Arab one. Everyone knows why. Six. Freedom, and this is his

but. Yeah. freedom does not confer immunity from criticism and antipathy. The director, and sometimes antipathy and criticism can take many different forms, you know? Right, like revoking you of your freedom. Yeah, or getting shot in the head like Yitzhak Rabin. That's right. The director and participants made the film intending to damage their country's reputation.

They are entitled to make that choice. They are also expected to accept the opprobrium and consequences that come with it. Freedom to accuse does not mean freedom from being judged for the accusation. That's right. And I judge me. we're starting to get, now we're starting to get into the threat zone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Michael liveshits, I'm sure he does.

He lives them all the time. I'm sure you live shits, dude. I got my live shits braced. Yeah. Uval Abraham. Braclet. Come on. Livshits braced.

He says this one. Lipshit's braced. Go ahead. Yeah, yeah. Go ahead. Yuval Abraham is most likely even more. So, okay, and here is another place. where there's a kind of strange mirror imaging going on

between the people hating the movie from one side and from the other because we're going to see people being like, Yuval Abraham's not an anti-Zionist, he's a liberal Zionist. He's not trying to destroy Israel. He's trying to redeem Israel. He's trying to redeem its image and reform it and set it back on some kind of illusory, humane path, right? And that means that the movie has no value,

which is a premise that I reject. But anyway, this guy is coming at it from the other angle. He's most likely even more restrained in his public statements than he would like to be. But in this case, there's no need to read between the lines to understand that he is opposed to Israel as a state, because if Yuval's initiatives were ever implemented in practice, they would spell the end of the Jewish state. Imagine if Hamas possessed military capabilities identical or comparable to those of the IDF. Would that lead to peace? It would be delusional to think so. Hamas would not wait a second before attacking Israel.

Whether Yuval sees a peaceful outcome in his idealistic illusions is another question. What is beyond doubt, however, is that his friends, adhere to one single correct approach, the one demonstrated on October 7th. And he's citing an interview with Abraham, where he says that he's in favor of any solution, two states or one state, it doesn't matter that delivers freedom and justice and some kind of humane future for everyone. That's right. And Michael Livshitz is doing the thing that all Zionists do, which is to say freedom for Palestinians will

always inevitably end with the death of all Jews remaining. What's incredible is that when he says you don't have to read between the lines, he's clear that Yuval is a anti-Zionist mole. He's trying to destroy the state. And when other people read between the lines,

they're clear that he's trying to preserve the state. A lot of reading between lines. Right. And there are even people who I respect who are posting things like, yeah, this whole trying to revoke their citizenship and all the backlash in Israel, it's all part of the K-Fabe, right? Because they have to make

them look like heroes. I don't know how Cosmos brained you have to be. Israel's pretending to freak out. That's right. Yeah. As you know, Israel is most of the time very restrained when it comes to these things. Before this all happened, Yuval, Rachel,

and Benny Gantz all got together. Yeah. Fire fucking McElmore for from doing an Ed Sheeran tour. I have a feeling that Israel would freak out even more about something like this, but, you know. Yeah, absolutely. All right.

Moving on to this one, when you suddenly realized that it wasn't worth selling your eternal soul for 25 minutes of applause, but it's already too late. And it's a picture of them looking tired and embarrassed. You know, embarrassed and uncomfortable, dressed all in black at this premiere. And this is from a Zionist,

But you've also seen people looking at the exact same picture and being like, look at these two grifters, profiting off Palestinian blood, getting applause and profit. I don't know what profit they're getting. So anyway, this is another case as we're approaching a part of the conversation where we're going to talk about this horseshoe. But before we do, we have to get to my favorite of these tweets. At the end of this fuck quake of discourse over the last two days. Sam Hyde. This, Mr. Hyde. This is a different Sam Hyde that I know. Who's Sam Hyde? There's like a Nazi Sam Hyde out there who's an ex-comedian turned Nazi streamer or something like that. Anyways, I think they'd get along. They might.

This one is the funniest one I've ever seen. No serious documentary about Gaza's wartime systems can ignore the world's most singular system, some 400 miles of tunnels built for combat by those who initiated the war and made them the center of their military strategy. that is the only truly unprecedented system of the war. So the idea that, number one, it's the only incredibly organized military system involved in this war. And number two, that it's unprecedented. People have never used tunnels before. Yeah.

That's the new technology. You can't talk about Gaza's wartime systems without talking about the most important system of all. My central nervous system, which is filled with fear and anxiety. over the fact that some people want Palestinians to live. So you can't talk about one without the other. Very important. We have to have a systems analysis. Exactly.

That's right. All right. So I think that brings us to the end of the Zionist freecouts. There was a Zionist reaction I want to just touch on very briefly in Haarets. Yeah. From Raviv Drucker. We're moving through things quickly here. But I think it's interesting to take a kind of flyover survey.

A holistic survey of it. So here's Ravid Drucker, who fashions himself quite a progressive. Watching Naza shocked me, so did what its creators left out. Missing verifiable details, Hamas's role, and crucial context, the film weakens its journalism and risks alienating the Israelis it needs to reach. So here's the constructive criticism version from the liberal Zionist school. I would have totally been like, damn, genocide is bad. if it weren't for these mistakes they made

in the framing and the Misan Sen, you know? I was just about to join the cause. I've never found a film so difficult to watch. I physically cringed in my seat. Naza made me feel like a German during World War II, hearing what my own people had done. The feeling was so intense that it brought out the defensive Israeli and me,

eager to explain. And here I go. Here I go. Time to Has beer. There's no self-awareness that that defensive Israeli in me is like the defensive German in, like that's

he thinks that the defensive Israeli is somehow endearing or understandable. You don't understand that that's part of it. Yes, yes, and he's about to indulge it. I know Yuval Abraham, one of the film's two creators, and have no doubt about his integrity. I'm personally familiar with some of the accounts in the film. Innocent

Gossens shot for crossing a line they couldn't have known existed. Hungry Gossens shot and killed after going to Israeli established aid centers for food and crossing the boundaries imposed on them. I'm glad you're familiar with them. Yeah. It's good to know. You heard about it. We've met. We ran into each other at a cocktail party. With my own eyes, I've seen an astronomical

Naza figure. The term refers to civilian collateral damage. And again, I just have to say, it's the most Israeli rhyming irony. Like, Israeli rhyming slang is when it's when genocidal military terms rhyme with the place you're genociding. Yeah, yeah. It's unfortunate.

It's unfortunate. The number of innocent people expected to be killed in a strike on a specific military target. That number seemed disproportionate to the target's importance.

Anything above zero would be disproportionate, you fucking ghoul. These were painful things to watch. At the Venice Film Festival, the film received a lengthy ovation.

Now comes a big butt! Hell yeah. He said to himself. But! Oh, I like big butts. And I'm aware that it may come from defensiveness. Oh, an Iota,

a scintilla of Self-awareness, but here I go anyway. I'm going in. This is a problem with therapy, okay? And this is, you know, this is the one thing I've said from the beginning. People think that self-awareness is like the beginning of the end of, you know, your, your path to being cured. At this point, it's not.

Knowing yourself means fucking nothing if you're just going to just repeat the same fucking neurological issues. Babe, I'm going to say something here, and I'm aware that it might come partly from violent misogyny. Right. Yeah, exactly. I'm going to say something here, and I'm aware that it might be a function of the fact

that I'm blackout drunk as I have been every other day of your life. Yeah, listen, this might come from a place of I want you to die, and I'm going to enjoy seeing you die. My therapist says... And I can own that. And I can name that. I can own that. I can make space for that. And I hope you hold space for it, too,

when I'm killing you with my night. Because all we are is two bodies in a space. That's really all we are. And then there'll be one body and one corpse. And I think that your body has too much blood pumping through it. Yeah, corpses and spaces is what we're all about. That's what it's right.

All right, here's this big blood. Episode title submission. Corpices and spaces, yes. But there's a few others too. Pink washed, I think would be good. Anyway, first, presenting such disturbing testimonies without factual details that would allow them to be verified is a serious problem.

Soldiers describe being part of a machine that deliberately killed thousands of innocent civilians, but there's no date, no location. not even a single identifiable incident to investigate. There's also no machine. At no point did they open a door, go into a cellar, and there was a big computer on the wall going bleep, blip, blip, bleep, bleep, bleep, I am here to kill Palestinians.

I have been programmed to commit the genocide. That's right. Don't worry, it's not your fault. I love you saying this. They're raging against a non-existent machine. This motherfucker is straight up just being like, and here are all the, caveats that I have in my mind for why I can continue to ignore this.

And I'm just going to list them for you. And I'm aware that it might be coming from psychopathy. Yeah, exactly. But, you know, that just makes me more woke, if you think about it. Here comes the woke washing using Breaking the Silence, which again, lends credence to some of the criticisms coming from anti-Zionists who are not impressed by all of this Israeli hand-wringing and inventorying and seed. There's just one more example of shooting and crying.

Yeah. Right? And I have some sympathy for that view again, even though I think it's being wrongheadedly and prejudicially applied in this case. It's an understandable feeling. Years ago, we at Channel 13's The Source, Hamakor, investigated testimonies given to breaking the silence in Israeli organization that collects accounts from Israeli soldiers about their service in Gaza and the West Bank. We found that several didn't hold up. The witnesses hadn't lied. Neither had the organization. Sometimes human memory is unreliable. Sometimes the soldier giving the account doesn't have the full picture. And so, you know, if we're going to use their testimonies to debunk the absolutely reliable and never fallible Hasbara line of our proud military, we need to be able to triple check, triple blind, confirm it. Because it's a high standard of proof, given how truthful our propaganda is. We need to be able to know the exact details of the soldier and the very specific time.

in place in which they allegedly committed these war crimes so that we can verify it or deny it, whichever happens first. That's right. And so we can round them up and ask them some questions. How can we say, nah-uh? If you haven't yet told us the yaha. If you haven't given us the yaha, you can't get a na-uh. Don't you know?

I'm sorry. If you don't have any yaha, you can't have any n'uh. Exactly. How could you have any nothing if you don't eat your yoh? Exactly. Shout out to the other pink, the good pink, Roger Walters. Yeah. Yeah. The Floyders.

That's right. The film occasionally offers hints about the context. And this gets incredible here, Matt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Offers hints about the context in which these terrible things were done. Between testimonies, we see people dining in Tel Aviv restaurants. One soldier says all he cared about was completing the mission. Another explicitly draws a comparison to the Nazis.

A third described how much he enjoyed the work. The impression is that killing innocent Ghaz and children was fun, but could his enjoyment have come from believing at the time that he was helping the strike at Hamas? Dude. Don't kinkshame. Don't yuck people's yum.

Let people enjoy things like killing children when they think it's justified. That's right. Exactly. It was just like, hey, sorry, I thought I was killing a racist. you know, when I was doing a giant race-based pogrom. Like, these guys, you can't, you can't just superimpose Hamas under someone else's memories.

Remember at Nuremberg when I... He beat his wife. Well, he thought his wife was Hamas, maybe. Maybe for a second his PTSD was like, oh shit, I thought it was Hamas. My bet. And that's excusable. Do you remember at Yorimberg when that high up SS officer said, yes, I killed thousands of Jews every month.

But to be fair, I enjoyed it because I thought they were subhuman and needed to be wiped off the planet and were a threat to the master race. And he was let go. He was given a parade. Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry I didn't know that they weren't

actually human rats, okay? I think all of these contexts are legitimate, but the film would have been truer to reality if it included other more relevant ones. For example, The interviews could have been asked how they were affected by videos of hostages in captivity and accounts of what Hamas had done.

What is this? Like temporary insanity? Do you think it's, like he doesn't, he wanted them to be granted temporary sanity. He wants their behaviors to be, yeah. Yes, this is the whole October 7th washing of fucking everything. It exists for this specific purpose, which is to go, you have to understand how traumatized all of us were. October 7th. They've been saying this shit from fucking the beginning about this.

Even to the point where, you know, they were even offered fucking to get hostages back early on the fucking same day. It was recently reported in this newspaper. All right. And they're like, guys, we can't talk to you right now. We're just feeling a lot of trauma. And it's like, do you want the hostages back? Let me grieve. Let me grieve. By the way, another pro-Palestine person had the cosmos-brained thing of, hmm, anyone wonder about the timing of the release of this movie just after those revelations about Netanyahu in October 7th? Yeah, the Venice film festival was planned around that RASX. I don't even understand that criticism. It's like, this is now a distraction from that. How was it in the distraction? Aren't they both the same?

They're both, talk about the same thing, which is the Israeli complicity and genocide. Everything you just said about how this is what they've been using to, I mean, I've said this part, They've been using it to fluff themselves up, keep themselves engorged with rage and now impunity. It's depicted beautifully and very disturbingly and controversially. In that film I keep talking about, Nadav Lapid's yes, in which after visiting with the next girlfriend of his, the protagonist, the anti-hero of the movie,

she has now become a self-described Hasbara agent. She works for the Hasbara department. She says so. She uses that word. And she lists off this litany of all the things they did to us on October 7th. she drives him to the foot of a hill in Sterot, it turns out, and as he walks up that hill, he's repeating what she said to himself,

just maniacically, and he's just repeating it, repeating it, repeating it, he gets to the top, and we actually are seeing the real Gaza with real smoke going up, and he screams out, you fucking bastards, and he takes out the lyrics to the genocidal apartheid song that he's composed, the song of annihilation. So he kept himself pumped up.

He kept himself, and you can see what strain it is, and he has to do it. And so people who accused that scene of repeating October 7th lies, I say no, it's depicting the uses of those stories. To gas people up. To gas people up. This is all about the continued gassing up of people to act inhumanely. In the face of a documentary that's doing this. And this is, again, where the critics of this movie are saying, what difference does it make?

And you're right, in the Israeli context, mostly what difference does it make? At least for liberal pundits like this. they're going to do this fucking bullshit. I think there's a possibility of reaching people in the society. Some of them, not nearly enough of them, but that's beside the point, because I think the film is also for an international audience.

The film also offers no comparison with how other armies have fought terrorist organizations embedded in civilian. All these contexts are more important, according to you. I'm sorry, but also, like, you know, one of the reasons they probably didn't want to offer that comparison is

because you would be comparing them to how, you know, things that happened in, let's say, Serbia, or things that happened to the IRA and the Irish. Like, or you'd have to, or you would have to come up with the statistics of how many Ukrainian civilians and children have been killed. Right. In four years of Russian invasion and find out that it was exceeded by Israel's death toll in like March of 2024. Yes. They're just like, you know, how come you didn't offer up a worse comparison just to try to get them

and it's like, you know, because y'all are the worst because you've been doing it bad. That's it. At one point, Hamas's use of civilians as human shields comes up only to be sharply dismissed. Instead, we're told that we deliberately killed

suspected Hamas operatives at home with their families at night, using the AR system known as Daddy's home, because it was convenient. That may be so, but there's considerable convincing evidence that Hamas used civilian as human shields. No, there isn't. No, no.

There's none. Hamas placed infrastructure and command centers in schools and hospitals. No, they didn't. I'm sorry, but it's like, at this point, this is why, this is why we don't invite Zionists to come on to the show.

This is why I don't like talking to Zionists because you start off with like a preamble that goes, here's where I'm willing to move and admit this war crime happened, this war crime happened, this war crime happened, and you think for a second, I'm going to get some nuance out of the sky. I'm going to get at least, or maybe something I hadn't even considered, a perspective that has somehow eluded me for three years.

And then we're just back to, but human shields. I am, I am fully willing to make, I'm fully willing to make sweet love to my conscience about being part of a genital society. Now, let me put on 20 condoms over it so that I can't feel a thing. It's just so annoying because he goes like, oh, man, you know, this movie was almost effective,

but it suffered from a few problems. One of the problems being that have they considered that maybe the civilians deserved to die. The other is, maybe the civilians were put in harm's way, not by us. The same shit you've been saying

for three fucking years? To justify the thing that's now being exposed. Right. The thing that made you sit and go, damn, am I the Nazi? No, it is the others who are the Nazi. Forever, principal skinnified. Forever.

I also question the account of Israeli Air Force strikes on buildings and neighborhoods where the IDF estimated that 25% of residents hadn't evacuated. One soldier works out on paper how the Air Force destroyed whole sections of these neighborhoods, killing hundreds or thousands of people

on the grounds that they'd been told to evacuate. And what about those who didn't evacuate? The interviewer asks, good luck to them. The soldier replies, I'm not aware of this happening. To the best of my knowledge, it didn't. That's a complete paragraph. That is a crazy sentence.

I never heard of that. And delete it from my mind. After I heard it, this motherfucker is just constantly flashy thinking themselves from men in black and just being like, oh, I never even heard. heard of that. I like cheese.

What are we talking about? It's the Tom Hanks sketch from SNL in the early memory. Oh yeah, short-term memory. Yes, exactly. Just constantly fucking Dory from finding Nemo-ass brains. But then of course, he has to return to his I really

want a progressive turn in our society to end the article. He has to stick the progressive landing. It's incredible. It looks like this film won't be screened in Israel. That's a shame. With a more journalistic approach and more room for complexity, it might have reached more Israelis and helped them understand how we operated in Gaza. It's too bad that the film shouldn't be seen here

given that it doesn't repeat our propaganda. Had it, it might have, you know. It's a real bummer that this movie that made me feel like a Nazi is just not right for Israeli audiences in our free society. Correct. Correct. Okay. So that wraps up, I think, pretty wide and fair. We've spent a lot of time here on the Hasbara reactions to this from the fucking maniacally right wing

which is to say Israeli centrist. We didn't even look at, I haven't even seen, like, right wingers like Smotrish haven't even said a thing about it. No, there was one reaction. Right here, this is... Oh, yeah. This was the... Israeli right has been posting this.

This is, of course, an allusion to Ben-Givis. years, constant wearing of a pin that is a noose. And this is them, of course. I mean, they're doing the right-wing thing of like, yeah, we know these are, you know, some guys we got to kill. And Yuval turns to her like James Franco in the Ballad of Buster Scruggs and says, first time. First time, yeah.

Yeah. But it's terrible. I mean, it's terrible. I mean, marked for death. And there's been Zionist, it's true. There's been, all the auto-translate ones have said, we can't wait. for them, they're going to come back eventually. Don't worry, guys. We know what to do with traders. So there's a long history of violence against people perceived as traitors, even genocidal

war criminals like Isaac Rabin who aren't genocidal enough for their stablers taste. It was literally murdered for not being genocidal enough. And then, you know, you have people with actual power, like the Israeli government, saying Israel's culture minister threatens to revoke citizenship of the, of Gaza doc filmmakers. And these are real threats. I mean, these are, these are real threats. These are real threats. Yeah, they are whether or not they actually do it. I mean, again, I don't know. I can't predict the future.

But the only thing that they have to protect them is that they happen to be in a religious, ethno-religious apartheid state in which they are the favored group. That is the only thing that will save their skins from the government deciding whether or not to ban them permanently. And even that, I don't think is enough anymore. And again, Yuval, using his speech, said that a Palestinian filmmaker couldn't have made this. They would have been killed before they even got to shoot it. Which is an interesting point. And I do want to now discuss what time we have left the sort of pro-Palestine reaction to this.

Because I know that, you know, you and I've had some conversations about this. I made a long Instagram video about it. Or even though actually not for me, not so long, only 15 minutes. Usually you drone on. and a... That's correct. But let's talk about it. Let's talk about it.

So it's been decidedly split. And there's been a lot of people, including Palestinian accounts, saying, look, in fact, let's read Muhammad Shahada's take, which to me is the correct one. I just think, I mean, he's our most on-point guest, one of them, and I think this is just right on. Two things can be true. And this is from a guy who was born in Gaza. lived there much of his life, and that's not, you know, tokenism. But just keep it in mind who's

speaking here. Two things can be true. Naza is a crucial documentary evidence against genocide deniers, and we live in a frighteningly hypocritical world that applauds Israelis who call out apartheid and genocide while shaming and disbelieving, and sometimes murdering, Palestinians who say the exact same words. Like when German culture minister Claudia Roth said her applause at the 24 Berlinial was solely directed Israeli journalist Yvall Abraham and Nottes. his Palestinian co-director Basil Osra who was with him on stage. Yeah, we covered that on this show. The sound of half a hand

clapping. That's right, yeah. An Israeli saying genocide and apartheid is, quote, brave and extraordinary. A Palestinian using the same words as radical, extremist, propagandist, anti-Semitic, and uncompromising. Palestinian testimonies and evidence are treated as biased, exaggerated, unreliable, until

Israelis say otherwise. 100% true. We need a former Israeli prime minister to say there's ethnic cleansing in the West Bank for European governments to believe it. We need a former Israeli foreign minister to say that Camp David was a scam and that if he was Palestinian, he would have rejected it in order to debunk the myth of the most Israeli generous peaceover, the most generous Israeli peaceover, that's offer. That's Shlomo Ben Ami on Democracy Now opposite Norman Finklstein. We need the Israeli newspaper

Ha Arez to say Israel is torturing Palestinians to death and detention camps for the world to believe what we've been documenting and saying for years. We always need an Israeli to lend legitimacy and credibility to our meticulous and impeccable advice. Okay. I mean, I'll also add to that. Yeah, go for it. I'll also add to that. You need a fucking a couple of jerk off American and Canadian Jews to be the ones to say,

hey, criticizing Israel is not anti-Semitic and don't let them convince you. And to point out the blood on the fangs, hands on the, globe machinations of institutional Jewish organizations and individuals and personalities. Like to make the jokes that ought to be made by anyone about these people, we have to have that, you know, brisk red. Yes, exactly. So as far as he said so far, that echoes a unanimous set of criticisms coming from Palestinians and a lot of pro-Palestinians.

Like, what the fuck? It's fucking frustrating and disgusting this double standard. Similar to also during no other land. When that was out, we've had this discussion before, you know, like this idea that the West needs Israelis to be the ones to tell these stories. Because Palestinians are just not believed. It's just, yeah, exactly. Correct. But what Muhammad is not going to do is to take that disgust and that systemic observation about the racism and hypocrisy and take a further leap to saying some of the things,

that are being said. And I'll paraphrase some of the craziest takes I've seen, but let me quote him. That shouldn't mean discounting Israeli dissenting voices who speak up. It doesn't mean devaluing the important work they do and the risks they take when they call out their own country's crimes. There's already been a giant

wave of attacks from Israeli government and opposition leaders against the filmmakers of Naza. Shame and anger should be directed at mainstream places who suppress and sideline Palestinian voices while elevating Israelis who say the exact same message. The game is rigged against us, but that doesn't mean attacking Israeli dissidents like Yuval.

It should rather mean that we and Israeli anti-apartheid activists should jointly call out and condemn those who set the rules of the game at every possible opportunity until Palestinian voices are heard and believed. What do our people stand to gain from attacking Yuval and discrediting this movie? Activism is about what works, what makes a difference, not what feels good. I've been saying that for months. It's about function, not ideology. It's not about what's in the person's heart.

It's about what they're doing in the world and the effect it has. Even if that effect can be weaponized by bad faith actors, Naza is an important and crucial documentary that must be seen all around the world. So that strikes me as a morally intelligent, woke in the best sense of the word, which is awake to the trichnology of the systems, but not giving into the libidinal impulse, therefore to say, because I have the right to have these feelings, therefore I'm going to draw whatever black-pilled conclusions come to mind, and I'm going to put them out there as a way

of discrediting and in a dispositive way dismissing the possible value of something like this. And I'm going to assume the worst about everyone involved. Yeah. It also is not discounting the criticism. It's not taking the criticism itself personally. And I think that is the problem that I I've noticed between, you know, where this discourse is, is you've got, especially on Twitter, you've got this thing where people are always reacting to the reaction. That was a reaction to a reaction. Which I'm doing now.

No, I mean, but this is a natural thing that people do, especially when they're stuck in these like social media feed loops, right? And so I see people getting yelled at by people who are using them as an avatar for the other voices that they heard that were maybe more hostile. And what I've noticed is there is the criticism. And, you know, Yuval is profiting off of this. People are applauding this. This is unfair.

We live in this unjust society. I want nothing to do with this film. I think it's bad. And then there's the criticism of that being like, what do you want us to do? You know, you want, these people are trying their best, and you're out here discouraging them. And then you've got another, you know, form of criticism.

Like, well, what are you? What am I? Oh, so I'm not allowed to say anything. And so everyone's just, you know, doing this infighting. You talk about Andor, and it's like in season two, there's a two episode arc at the very beginning in which he crashed, where he lands on a planet. And there's this faction of essentially rebels fighting each other.

and they're using the imperial weapon of the stolen, what do you call it, Thai fighter, not to fight the empire, but to try to turn it so that they can fire it on each other. And this is sort of what I see happening is like the weaponization of leftist discourse being used to weaken it, to weaken our points of view and whatnot. And it's silly because, There is, I think, a serious issue with the way people react to positive, to like stimulation. I think people think that activism is social media. And the dopamine, I think, that you get from maybe a correct take can sometimes outweigh sort of a long-term...

Or a strongly worded ideological position. Yeah. Yeah, it can overtake what it means to put things in the context of a tactic or a strategy. In my opinion about this is essentially this is part of the propaganda war. This is not going to be used for the sake of the legal retribution that needs to happen. And I think people are looking at it like, well, you've anonymized it. so it's just, it's not even useful legally. And it's like, yeah, but it's not, I don't think that's what it's for.

Well, it could be, it could be cited. No, but it could be cited. The South African ICC or ICJKs, whatever it was, cited breaking the silence. They cited Haares, the Bitzellam. I mean, these are all data points of your collection, but that's not immediately the point of it. Now, here are some of the bonkers takes that I heard. And then I want to read a tweet from Rachel Fink that I think sums it up all very well. Like, sums up what drives me crazy about it.

Because I don't, again, I'm not trying to shit on, I'm not trying to police how anyone feels, and all of the revulsion at the optics of it and the desire to have nothing to do with the movie. If you don't trust the movie, fine, you don't trust the movie. But some of the claims being made. For instance, the purpose of this movie is to grant permanent anonymity to these war criminals and to shield them. Well, if you wanted to shield them, you could just not interview them. You could just not talk about this. Number one, number two, part of investigative journalism,

from Cy Hirsch to, you know, previous to that, is people will talk to you on condition of anonymity. They'll talk to you on background. And some of these things create leaks, whistleblowers, and state secrets being put out there. Okay? So that's just part of it. The idea that there's some kind of nefarious,

you know, it's liberal genocidal murderers protecting military genocidal murderers is crazy to me. Another one is, well, Palestinians have been, saying this for three years. Why do we need these Israelis to shoot and cry? Well, Palestinians saying it has run its course and a lot of them have been killed. And it's not the job of every centering people is one thing. But I've said this over and over again. To me, what makes the zone

of interest so great is that it doesn't center Jews. It centers the perpetrators. And it shows us the machinery and the mechanics by which my great-grandparents were killed. My great-grandparents, parents are not in that movie. They are the smoke billowing out of the chimneys in the background of the idyllic life of that German fucking Nazi commander's family. And that is true to life. And in the meantime, I get to see how this happened and the kinds of mechanisms. And I think that's a really important historical document. Now, that's a film, a future film, very different. And this is an ongoing genocide, but that cuts both ways. Because we're learning about it as it's happening. and we're learning more details from the inside.

I don't see how that doesn't have potential tremendous contributive value. It's not better than Palestinian testimony, but as Muhammad said, as long as we're living in a racist, typical critical world, this can contribute to speeding the day when Hasbara has no more oxygen to express itself because people know it's a lie.

And a lot of us do, but there's still a lot of people who don't. Yeah. Yeah, I think there's sort of a lot of bad faith attacks on the value of it. And people, you know, and some of them could be right. And I understand the take of like there's no value in this because if there was value in soldiers admitting their war crimes, this would have been done as soon as breaking the silence is fucking found there or whatnot. So instead, you've got people admitting to these war crimes year after year on camera and

nothing's being done. It all starts to look like a game. It all starts to look like this is all for. show and whatnot. And what I like to tell people who are saying things like, you know, they're not telling us stuff we don't already know. I like to tell them, I'm sorry, but a lot of people don't know. And that's just the truth of it. Or they don't believe. They don't believe or they don't know. Maybe they've heard. Maybe they know nothing. But they should know. They should know. And if they don't know, they're racist and you can't talk to racists. So now we're back in woke

one, which is totally crazy. Yes. There is a bit of that too where people, are doing this sort of like standpoint fucking identity politics stuff in order to criticize this in a way that I think is like sort of unfair. There's a lot of people who don't, who actually don't know about this shit. And I think that is shown in the fact that Zionists still get away with tons of things, even with people who are, you know, now voting more against A-PAC, or whatnot, you still have a large population of people, especially in the West, who don't know about these things. You can say, well, it's useless to try to convince them and don't spend

any breath trying to. Well, you don't have to. I just don't think it makes sense strategically to discourage the information from getting out there. And I don't think it's a nefarious plot. I think it's a symptom of a pretty atrocious system that we have. in which people just do not fucking believe the victims of crime. And I can understand not wanting to live in a world where that's the case. But guess what? We do. You can't tell me that the Vietnam War, the end of it, or the inability to launder the legacy of it,

hasn't been contributed to by anonymous sources, investigative reporting, revealing state secrets at the highest levels. It's just part of it. It's like I said, it's like the wire. All the pieces matter. other crazy takes they're not centering Palestinians imagine if German filmmakers

during the Holocaust had made movies about it just anonymizing Nazis and not centering Jews that would have been fucking great yeah that to me was one of the weirdest takes I saw was just like what if the Nazis had been making documentaries about

about how bad the Holocaust was I was like no what if German because look if you want to say that Yovall Abraham is the same as Benny Gans I got no time for you. Right, right, right. But so what if German filmmakers had?

Interviewed not their fellow countrymen and not taken, not brought them to justice. What are you supposed to do? Just kidnap one of these guys, put him in a carry-on suitcase and fly him to the Hague? No, yeah, but also beyond that, like the Nazi Holocaust was something that was largely not known about. Even, even up until the fucking 60s, it was, the information was still coming out about just how massive of a crime had been taking place. And how it happened.

And how the mechanics were, which couldn't be believed by people. Yes, exactly. And like the idea that somehow if a German had made a documentary in which Nazis were admitting to doing the Holocaust. And diagramming how the crematoria work. That's literally what's happening in this movie. They're diagramming the operating system, the mainframe, all of that. They're showing you the mechanics.

and you're saying this exists, I operated it. I was following orders. It's a very weird, like, analogy to make because I don't know anyone who's going like, yeah, I think what they're trying to say with that take, if I'm being fair, is imagine how Gosha would be if a Nazi just kept, made a documentary where other Nazis were just like,

oh, man, you know, we've been, you know, doing all this holocausting, and we feel kind of bad about it. and then nothing gets done. It's like, yeah, you're right. It is gauche. It is disgusting that the- Because Nazis are gauche.

Yes. But it's like- Actually, they're dwatt. They're not going, Bosch means left. Yeah, but it is understandable to be watching the spectacle

of going, and being like, this spectacle disgust me, the West disgust me and all that. I get that completely. I just don't think that there's, an understanding of what the value is of outlining and having literally the people doing the

genocide or people who were involved a cog in the machine telling you how the machine was built, how it's designed. Right. And that members of that society taking the risk of their own citizenship or whatever to make it happen. Okay. Well, yeah. I mean, it's useful. And I think there are, them as members of that society facing some sort of consequences, we'll see. We'll also see what the consequences of this movie coming out is.

But here's what I do know. When no other land came out and there was sort of a similar type of discourse going on, the discourse about it was argued pretty much in these pockets of the left. Internationally, not not on that land, not there. Right.

And not, yeah, exactly. Not on that land. Not by the people suffering it. Right, but also while this sort of leftist discourse was taking place, that movie itself, after it won the Academy Award, could not get distribution. And it didn't. To the point where I think now, it eventually, they like self-published. It was just the only way they could do it.

Oh, but they plan to do that. They plan to do that, man. They plan to make a movie that would make a big spectacle, but then couldn't get distribution. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There are some people, obviously, who are galaxy brained on this. But there are, I think people do need to understand the systems that they're fighting are much more vast and powerful than each other. Just ask MacLamore. You can get on it and say it to 90,000 people.

You'll still be shut down. We do this thing. We tend to do this thing, especially when we're in this, like, particular, like, the political bubble. especially online where we go everyone knows this stuff already and everyone's against it at least everyone who's cool as against it and the only people who are for it um you know uh are um fucking fucking these zionist billionaires and whatnot and the small group of people and as soon as fucking you know they try anything everyone's going to fucking be mad and we're going to all get together and the truth of it is is that these systems are much more powerful than that the information

that is out there is out there but it's not you ubiquitous. People still don't know a lot of this stuff. Correct, which means there's a lot of people who could be reached. And when you write off, basically they're doing basket of deplorables for the entire world, for anyone who hasn't ponied up yet and said Free Palestine, they're basically saying, well, if they haven't been reached by our testimony or by the testimony of the suffering, they can't be reached. Okay, then what's your theory of change? Let's just draw the line. Let's say, okay, it's skins and shirts. We already know who's who.

We're vastly outnumbered. There's no one else we can get. And we're going to fight with what implements that are going to bring down this entity. We're just going to trust in God? No, like, that's the black pill that I can't allow to go on challenged. There is some of that black pill that exists, I think. Look, I don't know what it's like to be a Palestinian. I'm not a Palestinian person.

And so I can understand that. I can understand the feeling especially, and I've thought about this feeling a lot, this feeling of like to constantly have to ask the people who are your oppressors to speak up. You know, it's like it's exhausting. And anyone praising it makes me mad too. I fucking totally understand that. I think the difference in this particular situation is you do have Israelis in this case doing that work and not putting that laborer on someone else.

And I think the praise for that is Gosh, and I understand that feeling. But you a little bit have to, that there's a, there's a bitterness to that. That you have to spoil or at least not fucking vomit. I mean, I think displaying the, the bitterness for it is, it's human and it's understandable. But it's also, I think it doesn't really have the effect of, yeah, I guess it's just not, to me, I'm like, this is, and maybe I'm an embarrassed guy. I'm so many's easily embarrassed. I don't want people to know when I'm feeling bitter.

And other people, I think, are more vulnerable and human. Sure. And I'm willing to accept those vulnerable expressions of disgust and bitterness. Right. But I'll say this. I'm not going to give. Let people actually, I think. Learn.

Yeah, you don't want to make people disengaged. And to me, that's the point of this podcast, I think. And especially pro-Palestinian, non-Palestinian allies. Don't, like, let Palestinians be disgusted by this. But the white people I've seen sharing. There's some white people out there. And quite frankly, quite frankly, there's some anti-Jewish sentiment that I've seen. Just very clearly.

Like, no Jew can be trusted, like explicitly. Yeah. On Twitter especially. On Twitter, but also on Instagram. I had an account, you know, comment. It's typical that you would consider yourself an authority on this, Daniel. And I looked at their thing. And every single one of their posts is about Jews and the nation's Jews.

So that's out there as well. The night I met you, my brother, was arguing with a Palestinian woman. He was saying there's no anti-Semitism in pro-Palestine work. She said, are you fucking kidding me? Of course there is. So that's there. Here's what I'm going to say.

I'm not going to give Israeli Jews any special bravery points. I'm not going to applaud them for 25 minutes for doing the bare minimum. Now, the bare minimum takes a real risk. So I'm going to admire them. I'm going to thank them. But I'm not going to go out of my way to be like, wow, you're, you know, but I'm not going to take. I'm not going to give them demerits either for where they were born, who they are, if they're doing work that needs to be done, because we would have wanted Germans to speak up.

Yeah, exactly. And also, like, this bare minimum talk, you know, all good for them for doing the bare minimum. Like, no, the bare minimum is, you know, like an Israeli going, I am anti-Zionist and I'm going to fucking move out of Israel and I'm going to, you know, be against it or whatnot. not. I mean, I'm just saying it's like, you know, the bare minimum is statements online, let's say, not even the moving out thing, just statements online. Making a documentary, I think, in which you actually have to like get people to admit these things. Has anyone ever made a movie? Do you know how long it takes? I know, right. That's the other thing. It's like, like, it's not like they just threw this thing up on the, they just did an, they just had 24-hour documentary festival where you just,

make it overnight and you throw it up at the Venice Film Festival. Like the amount of planning and resources and intention it takes to gather anonymous, like gather them at night and like. A lot of people saying throwing around the phrase bare minimum when it comes to, you know, Israelis who speak out who I'm like, talk about bare minimum. You're just, you're chirping online. Like that's what you're doing. But all that is to say is that I feel like it is also important to pull.

point out the fact that like we are talking about social media discourse. And the reason that's important to point out is because once again, these there are these systems out there that are getting people like Macklemore. Can't even say fucking free Palestine at an Ed Shear in concert. Can't even do that. There's systems out there that are going to make sure this film doesn't get seen by a lot of people. It is the same system that made sure that no other land didn't get distribution. There are these monstrous.

out there who are making sure that they continue the genocide in Palestine. And then there's discourse online. And for all those who had some takes that like maybe annoyed me like the, you know, what of a Nazi? I can still extend the grace to say, this person is still an ally to me. This person is still, yeah, this person is still outraged by genocide. And I think it's important to deny the pro-Israel fucking Zionist movement, its weapon of trying to divide and conquer. You need to be able to deny them that weapon.

The weapon that they give to you and they say, you know the right politics. Make sure you cut out anyone who doesn't know the right politics. deny them that. Let people have their fucking tics, even if they're fucking bat shit. And to be honest, even if some of them are fucking anonymous accounts saying some anti-Semitic shit, they say that shit to me all the time. I fucking, it does not change one iota, whether or not I believe that Palestine should be free, whether or not I believe that genocide is bad. Right. So it's, I think it's important to say when someone is having criticism, even if it's criticism that you are like, God, this is so annoying.

It's important to remember that that is a social media fucking phenomenon, and it is not a system. It is not the same as the criticism that comes from a fucking place of a government, right? That allows, that is going to, you know, maybe revoke these guys' citizenship or whatnot. And people are allowed to have their fucking feelings, and you're allowed to have yours, but just solidarity is the most. important thing here you're talking sense you're talking sense and and and there's always projection involved and anytime i get this fucking riled up about about people who i want to be on my side there's some there's some like i resemble that remark like i recognize something in myself

the hastiness to judge the the rigidity the whatever it is um that yeah so thanks for it's good to land on a place i was going to show a tweet which basically shows a bunch of... What's that? A tweet that made you mad? I won't do it, but it showed a bunch of indistinguishable statements which you can't tell whether... Remember that, did a Zionist or a Nazi say it?

Right. This is a did an anti-Zionist or a Husbaris say it? About this film. Yeah, about Yuval. Yeah. And, and, but I think the moment is passed for that because we should probably wrap up. That's true. It's true. But yeah, solidarity forever, everybody.

remember free Palestine. It's something that you can say that can get Ed Shearing mad at you. And that's why you need to say it because fuck that guy. And that's been our podcast. Badaz Barra at gmail.com for all your questions, comments, and concerns.

Patreon.com slash bad asbarra. That's right. You'll be able to hear that full fucking song in the Patreon version. So do it. All right. everyone. Thanks again so much for listening. And until next time from the river to the sea. If Naza, Naza Yates you, no argument from me.

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