Bad Hasbara - The World's Most Moral Podcast - Bad Hasbara 100: Love In An Excavator, with Jasper Nathaniel

Episode Date: April 17, 2025

Matt and Daniel are joined by writer and activist Jasper Nathaniel to celebrate 100 episodes of the show with a survey of Israel’s archaeology-based land claims, the excruciating experience of the IDF customer support line, and Benjamin Netanyahu gettin’ down on a muffin with the five bad boys from Beantown.Please donate to United Palestinian Appeal: https://upaconnect.org/See Matt and Francesca Fiorentini at Cobb’s in San Francisco May 7: http://bit.ly/mattfrancobbsJasper on IG: https://www.instagram.com/infinite_jazJasper on X: https://x.com/infinite__jazJasper on Substack: https://infinitejaz.substack.com/Subscribe to the Patreon https://www.patreon.com/badhasbaraSubscribe/listen to Bad Hasbara wherever you get  your podcasts.Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/5RDvo87OzNLA78UH82MI55Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bad-hasbara-the-worlds-most-moral-podcast/id1721813926Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/bad-hasbara/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Moshwam ha bitch, a rib and cocoa toast We invented the terry tomato And weighs USG drives and behind a roll Israeli salad, oozy stents and javas orange crows Micro chips is us iPhone cameras us Taco salads us Pothomas us

All of garden us White cost for us Zabrahamas Asvaras Us Oh, nichewa, everybody, and welcome to Bad Hasbara. The world's most unleavened podcast. That's right.

My name is Matt Lieb. I will be your most unleavened co-host. I'm Daniel Mate. I mean, actually, I guess it's the world's most leavened podcast. We're pretty leavened. We add levity. That's right. To things that don't deserve them.

Yes. And also our producer is literally. Adam Levin. It's true. So it's kind of hard to unleaven this podcast. That's kind of a yearly joke. Sorry not sorry, God.

Welcome, everyone. So excited for you to join us for another. You have no idea how often I say that. Out loud. Sometimes I shouted at the sky. Yeah, actually, that's in my muzzuzza. I just wrote it in Hebrew in a little scroll. Sorry, lo, sorry.

Exactly. Which is another callback. We are starting to recycle our jokes. That's how you know. We've been around. We've become a venerable podcast. Yes, yes. You know you've been around for too long, some say,

when you start doing the same jokes over and over again. And laughing at them as if they're new. They're still funny, though. That's the thing. They're still good. That's why we should be allowed to. Uh, five stars and review on all of the apps in which you can give five stars and reviews to podcasts. Subscribe on YouTube if you have not subscribed.

Uh, and make sure to, uh, join the Patreon. Patreon. Patreon.com slash Bad Hasbara. Why haven't you sub, why haven't you sub-subscrubed yet? Why don't you subscribe? You, you promise to subscribe every week, but you do not subscribe. Uh, if you join the Patreon, not only do you get, uh, episode. of Bad Hasbara a little bit earlier than everybody else, but you also get a bonus episode, one bonus episode every week. Last week, it was a Mattless episode, and I was been reading the comments. People said, it was fantastic. People said, wow, turns out, Matt, unneeded, useless,

just dead weight. They just kept writing over and over in the comment section. Loser. And I was like, you know what, it's good to know that, you know, when the leave is away, the kids come out to play, you know? I saw one comment saying you were superfluous, which I thought was a compliment until I looked up what it meant and how it's pronounced, actually. I thought they were just saying that I, you know, was sick with the super flu.

That's right. It turns out that what they meant is that I should no longer be there no more. But I will, I will, because I don't listen to comments. You know, Piggy's can have all sorts of opinions. But at the end of the day, who's the farmer? Who's making the slop?

Who's slopping their hogs? Us. Who's got the pitchfork? Who's got the pitchfork? Who's got the bails of hay? Who's making hay while the sun shines? That's right. Who's got the grain silo?

Who's got the beautiful farmer wife? Who built the trough? Who put the bar into bar? so anyways please join the patreon patreon dot com slash bad has barra also once again we are rapidly approaching may 7th which is the date of the cobs comedy show uh cobs comedy club stand-up show that me and my wife francesca furantini are doing it's going to be a really fun show the ticket link is right there adam put it right there but you can find it in the description of this episode please go are you subtitling the show corn on the cobs oh you know what should have done it too late now now we're

at this point it's just called live in san francisco great poster by the way oh thank you yeah i next time i'll i'll have to post it on the on this on this show yeah yeah but for now what's that link the link is bit dot ly slash matt fran cobs go buy tickets it's a great show it's going to be super fun. May 7th, Cobbs Comedy Club, San Francisco. If you're in the Bay Area or know anyone in the Bay Area, please tell them to go or go yourself or just buy tickets and start handing them out right in front of the club, even if you don't want to go. You're just like, hey, free tickets. Do it. Cubs with two bees. That's right. Cobbs with two bees. Thank you very much. Today's episode is brought to you by United Palestinian Appeal. United

Palestinian Appeal has worked in Gaza for 45 years and is currently providing in critical pharmaceuticals, medical supplies, and vaccines in the region. Additionally, they provide foreign aid, clothing, and sleeping bags for families in Gaza. If you have money and you are willing to part with it, do it for a good cause, not just some stupid-ass podcast. Do it for United Palestinian Appeal. U-P-A-Connect.org. That's upac-O-N-N-E-C-T.org.org.

Do it now. Thank you very much. Daniel Mathe, what's this been? Well, as you can see, my screen name is spelled a little differently today. Yeah, Canadian style. E.H. It's because of where I am right now. Sojourning in my home country and went to the Vancouver flea market on Sunday for a massive

record fair. I mean, for an LP addict like me, it was dangerous territory. I managed to get out of there without doing too much damage. found a few choice items folks'ons of Canada by Tom Kines and if you can see here

he's called the song pedlar of the CBC this is apparently how the word pedlar is spelled in England and therefore in Canada because we feel the need to hold on to stupid spellings from a stupid country

You got to remember the time when you were part of the Commonwealth or part of the kingdom, rather. Exactly. I love that. He's a song pedlar. What are folk songs of Canada? I imagine very moose-based, possibly even hockey-based. Is it just the theme song to Trailer Park Boys? Well, there's a song called Wheel of Fortune, which I have to assume is the theme song to Wheel of Fortune.

with French lyrics. Yeah. There's a song, Adam Levin says, just goose honking. There is a song called The Wild Goose. There's a song in French

called La Pulette Gris, which I think means the gray chicken. Okay. Yeah, there's a combination of English and what I have to assume is badly pronounced French. I love it.

Yeah. Then on a totally different tip, but still Canadian, Sloan, one chord to another. I don't know if you know Sloan. I'm sure Adam does. he's looking. He seems like someone who knows Sloan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're a great band from Nova Scotia, I believe, the only Canadian band. They're fantastic, truly. My first Sloan. And this is

not Canadian, but I'm really excited about it. Orson Wells, the begatting of the president. And I don't know what it is, but it's some kind of like satirical comedy political thing. If you read the text here, it says, and it came to pass that FDR begat Truman. And Truman begat Ike and Ike begat JFK and JFK begat LBJ and all this that was done that it might be fulfilled the prophecy which saith a little child

shall be born in a grocery store and wittier and he shall sit upon the throne and his administration shall be established greatly. Now the begetting of Richard Nixon was on this wise dot-da-oh so it's some kind of Old Testament version of the American presidency. I've loved that. Read by

Orson Wells. I haven't put it on yet but I'm so excited. Yes, I'm very interested in that one i might actually fuck with that one uh i like it because uh i was like oh orson wells record it must be like some great radio play that he wrote you know back in the day and it's like no this is like his going on johnny carson drunk era yeah he didn't even write it there's three writers there's music i yeah i'll i'll give you a full review once i oh the french champagne has always been celebrated for its excellence there's a kind of Fordia champagne by Paul Mason, inspired by that great French excellence.

Didn't he do McDonald's commercials at some point? I can imagine, but he probably did it for free McDonald's. I'm not talking shit. That's why I worked at McDonald's. People think of me as highbrow artist, but there's something, finding the high and the low. Yeah. You know what I enjoy about high-brow things?

And high anything is the way the high double arches of the McDonald's logo towers over the city reminding you you're in civilization. The double quarter pounder with cheese. The French are regarded for their famous fries. That's great. I like my strawberry shaken, not stirred. That's right. so that is that's a spin that's what is uh spinning over at the mate household in vancouver

uh off site right now away from new york uh hopefully they let you back in bro i sure hope so you've been fucking with batar online yeah we have our fun so this is not just any episode i mean sure this is just some episode but this is a very special one because it is technically or we are labeling it the 100th episode because it is bad has bar at 100 this is we've done a hundred episodes

of this show and it is insane and it feels good it feels weird and I just want to celebrate it but the thing is we didn't really plan we just booked the show as we usually do you know

so we didn't really have any plans to celebrate it But we want to keep it a whole one hun. We do want to keep it a whole one hun. We're trying to keep it 100. And so producer Adam Levin made a bumper for us to celebrate 100 episodes. And here we are celebrating 100 episodes with all of you out there. And here is the number. Matt, Daniel, it's me.

The real Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. Sarah and I are so proud of you for reaching 100 episodes of Bad Hasbarra. when Shai Davidai pitched me the Hasbara Sleeper Agent program, I never dreamed it would go so well. Remember, don't share this message with anyone, or your cover will be blown. That's all for this real message that I, Benjamin Netanyahu, the real man, recorded.

Beautiful. Oh, thanks, Bebs. Oh, thank you. Shout out to Beebe, who came to celebrate our 100 episodes. And we wanted him, we wanted him to come. Yeah, I mean, we've been asking, we've been asking our homie ear, like, hey, when's your dad coming, man? When's your dad coming to the pot? Matt, after 100 episodes, I would hope you recognize a throw to the soundboard.

We wanted him to come. Oh, my God. I did not recognize it. I want you to come. The anti-Semites at the United Nations better buckle up because I'm coming. I should have known. I should have known. You'll have to forgive me if I'm a little slow on the uptake.

You know, I'm still recovering from my superfluous. Thank you. Now, thank you to all of you out there who have celebrated 100 episodes with us. Seriously. It's been, it's been, you know, I mean, horrible in so many different ways. But wonderful to have found a nice community of people who are out there. there who want to laugh at things in order not to cry at things. And I think that is a very human trait.

And I'm glad we could do that together. Sound off in the comments about what episode you jumped on the bandwagon at. Any real old schoolers who have been here since episode one? I've been here since episode three technically, but not as a host. I think I came aboard somewhere in the teens or 20s. Yeah, yeah, yeah. shout out yeah shout out in the comments if you you know been here from the beginning or if you there was an episode where you first discovered it and said like oh shit i kind of like this all right

keep listening or sound off in the comments if you think our early shit is better yeah yeah sound off if you're just like oh they kind of sold out around episode like like whenever they got hasan on that's when they became sellouts uh or you know sound off in the comments if there's one particular you know appearance we made on some other podcasts that you were just like oh that's I discovered you, then we'll know to thank that podcast. But the point is, thank you guys all for being here with us to celebrate 100 episodes. We are officially an old podcast. So with that being said, I would like to introduce our great guests. We're going to have a fantastic discussion today. This is about a, I mean, we're going to talk multiple subject matters,

but one subject matter I've been wanting to do an episode about for a while. which is that of archaeology and the use of archaeology as a mode of creating Hasbara. Can you dig it? Yes. Oh, episode title right there. So, ladies and gentlemen, everyone else, we have a great guest who is a journalist. You can read his wonderful journalism at his Substack, Infinite Jazz, jaz.a Z dot substack. ladies and gentlemen and everyone else please welcome to the podcast jasper nathaniel hey guys

hey jasper how you doing congrats on 100 thank you so much for booking me months and months in advance to be your 100th guest it had to be you it had to be you there's no one else we we we knew because it was like listen we're going to have a hundredth episode at some point and when that happens we're officially going to have to start having actual journalists on. So we need that substack guy. We need the substack guy as fast as possible. Also, to be honest, I was looking at your substack and I thought that you were David

Foster Wallace because that's the goal. It said infinite jazz. I thought it was infinite jest. So it turns out David Foster Wallace super dead. Would you wear a bandana just for this episode just so Matt doesn't have to? I would have, but your producer's already wearing. one. That's true. That would be embarrassing to both be wearing it. Thank you for coming on the podcast. We really appreciate it. We've been reading your stuff and fascinated by your own

experiences in the West Bank. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and about the type of journalism that you're doing and where you're doing it? Yeah, sure. Well, I'm based in New York, But basically right after October 7th, I got, I started covering the war by way of activism, to be honest. So I never claimed to just be, you know, a pure reporter. Like I was a member of JVP. I was attending all the rallies. And what I started to feel was happening was that I was just getting so caught up in the culture wars in America. Right.

Around, you know, the chance and the. ripping of the hostage posters and the universities and blah, blah, blah. And at some point, I was just thinking, like, I feel like I'm just becoming detached from the principal issue here, which is that there's a genocide taking place. And so I wanted to just get closer to it to be able to sort of get back to first principles and remind myself, like, what this is actually about and try to just get a more clear perspective. So that was in November of 2023. Obviously couldn't get into Gaza, but things had been getting really bad in the West Bank. Actually, since long before October 7th, it was the deadliest year

since at least a second in defada there for Palestinians. And as a Jewish person, it was actually quite easy to get into the West Bank. That turns out that's the whole thing. That's actually the whole thing. Yeah. I can turn it on and off. Yeah. You can take a water slide from Ben-Gurion Airport, straight to the settlements. More or less. Yeah. So anyway, I knew a couple activists in the West Bank. I reached out. I said, look, I want to come and do some reporting on what's going on. And they were all, everybody was like, yes, nobody is telling our story. Or our story is, you know, is under the radar because of what's happening in Gaza, which is I mean, Gaza, you know, it's much worse there and they need to, you know, have all eyes on it.

But so I went to the West Bank for the first time at the end of 2023. Had you been to Israel before? No, no. Okay. Okay. So you're never been. Yeah. Well, then what right did you have to have an opinion on it before you?

That's right. What right did you have to go there given that you'd never been there before? Right. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Who are you to just go to a place? When you, how did you know you wanted to go if you hadn't been there? Here's the question we're trying to ask.

Who are you to go to the West Bank first when you should be going on an 11-day birth-rate-esque type of tour set up by the Army? Well, that's kind of the, you know, what's funny about it is I didn't do birthright specifically because like I was too young to realize like, oh, this is propaganda. But something just felt off about it. It was like, why are all my friends coming home and they say they got their. first hand job. Right. What exactly is this thing? See, that's how I, that's how they sold it to me.

I was like, hand job sitting. Let's go. I mean, like, that's the whole thing. They want you to get your first hand job from a hot Israeli soldier. That's right. So it just. I've always, I've always ended up more self-employed when it comes to those jobs. Well, um, so I was, I was like, I don't want to go.

It just doesn't feel right. And then, um, I went to college and I, I, you know, know, met some Palestinian people and began, like, sort of learning more. And by the end of college, where I should say, like, by the 2014 bombardment, I was fully like, oh, this is a really bad project. And yet, I wanted to still be a Jewish person because I am Jewish. I mean, my mom's family was wiped out in the Holocaust. My dad's family were, were supposed to of the last Jews still in Baghdad, in Iraq, actually. And so I have a long history.

You're half Sephardic or Mizraq or whatever you want to call it. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That accounts for the the chin. The chin. They're really good. Yeah. Yeah. So and like my dad's family, I mean, you know, I don't want to get too into the history here because there's There's like, the scholarship is sort of mixed on it. But like, suffice it to say, there was at one point deadly anti-Semitism happening in Iraq, too. Particularly as, like, the Nazis were sending people around like, hey, you guys should take care of this Jew thing here. And so basically, like, both my mom's side and my dad's side were forced to flee their countries because of lethal anti-Semitism.

They both moved to New York, and my parents were both first. generation. And so they had, so they moved to the Jewish state, essentially. They moved to the Jewish state, specifically the, the state of the Bronx and the state of Queens. And so my parents always, like the Judean Samaria of New York. Exactly. Exactly. That's good. Yeah. So I. There is a famous, There is a famous Moses who had a big impact on the Bronx. Oh, yeah. Robert Moses, isn't that the name of the developer who basically destroyed to the South Bronx?

Power Brassways. There we go. There we go. Okay. So anyway, like my parents, I'll just say like they were never like staunch Zionists or even like really outwardly pro-Israel, but they were just sort of like a lot of the children of, you know, survivors of the Holocaust and the pogroms and stuff. They just had this sort of real sense of like existential danger for Jewish people.

Sure. And I think in their childhood and growing up, like Israel was just sort of like framed to them as the answer. But I didn't ever see it that way. And it always just, and then after October 7th, it was actually very easy for my parents to be like, oh, wait a minute, this is not making anybody safe, actually. And so, so anyway, when I went there, my right to go to get back to your question was for, frankly, that I'm Jewish. And so literally I have a right to go as a Jewish person. Like, that's not my rule.

That's their rule. Yeah. And I think that, like, you know, if you actually read the first thing that I wrote from the West Bank, it's called, you don't understand how bad it is here. And the idea was that, like, even though I have been pretty engaged in Israel-Palestine conflict for a very long time. And I've read a lot and I've seen a lot, like, just nothing could have prepared me for the level of, like, brutality and cruelty that I saw just everywhere that I looked from both soldiers and settlers. And also, just like the level of actual real warmth and kindness that I experienced from all the Palestinians who I met and who I traveled with. And so that first trip that I was there, I just sort of, I traveled all around the West Bank for about a month. And I, like, collected the beginnings of stories that I wanted to go back and do more reporting on.

The two big ones that I ended up reporting were on Masafariata, which is, you know, the subject of no other land. It's a farming community in the South Tebron Hills that is under just one of the worst sieges by the IDF and these neighboring settlers. And right after October 7, this is actually the very end of the documentary. This guy, Zachariah Aladro, was shot by a settler in the stomach. And they know exactly who shot him. It's on video. Like, you know, the guy, his name is Yitzhak Nier. He's a settler.

He lives up the hill. And just nothing was ever done about it. And so that was the first story that I worked on. And then the second one, which, frankly, was like much more intensive was based in this town called Sebastian, which is in the northern occupied West Bank by Nablus. And basically, like, I went there. And I was immediately struck by A, just like the breathtaking beauty and just like amount of history in this place. So what makes it so unique is that the town itself is literally built among archaeological ruins of something like over 10 civilizations that date back like 6,000 years.

So you can literally see like a lot of homes are built on foundations that were built 6,000 years. thousands of years ago. And then you can see as like the building changes, the different civilizations that basically came and went throughout that time. But because among those 10 civilizations, one of them was the ancient Israelites. And during that time, Sebastian was known as Samaria, which was the capital of the northern kingdom of Israel. Because of that, the nearby settlers have decided that like, this is the most valuable. place. They need this place more than any other place because, you know, it's the real cradle of their ancient civilization and kingdom. And so basically what's happening there is there's this

intense focus among the local soldiers and the politicians and the settlers to get this place by any means necessary. And one of the ways is through basically weaponizing the practice. of archaeology, which I'm sure we'll get into, but it's through literally bureaucratic means, it's through zoning, and it's through just, and then it basically spirals into just sheer violence. And so the second time I went there, the violence was just spinning out of control. And so that was sort of the, I decided, so I decided I wanted to write a story about this town, and then as I was researching the history, I just like uncovered the central role. that archaeology played in the Zionist project from its earliest days from before, you know,

the state existed. And then it was just like a can of worms. Everything, it just started to like make so much sense in the context of Israel as it is today, Israel as it was back then. And sort of like, especially this argument about, you know, oh, Israel only went, went wrong in 1967 and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like studying archaeology helped me really see like how where we are today, is in many ways just the logical conclusion of the project to begin with. So I don't remember what your question was. Oh, there wasn't a question. I was looking for that background. And I read your article on what's going on in Sebastian with regard to the weaponization of archaeology. And through the article and then through, you know, obviously research we've done

ourselves, we have, you know, one of the things that we've talked about and wanted to do an episode on for a while was the role of archaeology in kind of the Hasbara regarding Israel's right to do the things that it's doing. And it's crazy how central archaeology is to the propaganda, to a degree that is almost laughable because of the fact that, you know, you know, actual archaeologists look at their practices and say, like, this is not real archaeology. At least they're not doing archaeology in any way that would be considered, you know, done from an angle of scientific discovery. Rather, it's more of a hunting expedition, a treasure hunting expedition, looking for anything that ties the lands to ancient, you know,

the ancient Israelites, ancient, you know, kingdom of Israel. And yeah, so I loved the article and I wanted to, you know, delve deeper into it and have you tell us more about it. Daniel? So there were a couple of key paragraphs there in the article that I wonder if we could put up on screen. One second. That's start from the sort of first principle, which was very interesting to me, that archaeology already at its even in the best case scenario straddles the line between the hard and let's say

social sciences which means i mean all science can be weaponized in the service of ideology but especially something that involves drawing conclusions about how humans lived and what that means about present-day agendas and who owns what so matt do we have Yeah, those paragraphs that we could maybe just read out and maybe then you can elaborate on it, Jasper. All right. So for as long as archaeology has existed, straddling the pliable boundary between the hard and soft sciences, it has been implicated in contests over historical narrative and national identity. In her landmark 2002 book, Facts on the Ground, anthropologist Nadia Abu El-Hodge argued that science and ideology are in separate. in archaeology. The, quote, empirical facts of the discipline are actually cultural products

shaped by land access, funding, political interests, excavation methods, the prioritization and the interpretation of particular artifacts, and the physical impact of archaeologist's practices on the land. The laboratory itself is changed with each new study. Abu El-Haj asserted that the Israeli nation state, its cultural imagination, and the field of archaeology, developed in a, quote, mutually constitutive relationship, each reinforcing and shaping the others. This interplay, she wrote, generated a network of, quote, common sense assumptions that formed the epistemological foundation of the Zionist project, influencing everything from national mythology to civic planning. So a lot in there, but a very helpful starting place

to understand what's so fraught with and rife with the potential for mischief in this whole project. elaborate on that? Yeah, I also just want to mention it's because it's just so relevant to right now. Nadia Abu al-Haj, who is a professor at Columbia, when that book came out and then it came out when she was at, I want to say Chicago, she was at a different school and then she moved to Columbia and when she was up for tenure, a settler group found out about this book and launched a huge petition and it actually became a huge controversy at Columbia. of them accusing her of being an anti-semi which is of course utter nonsense right and so it was like

uh you know a small sense of what we're seeing today at columbia she was a part of one of these controversies there um like 10 years ago or maybe even more than 10 years ago um yeah Columbia is not new to this i mean Columbia is where barry weiss went on a yeah exactly a crusade against uh joseph massad and yep yeah okay so i think that like a maybe important distinction to make. And this is something that Al-Haj really, really articulates well, is that as far as she's concerned, and frankly, she is the scholar here. I'm just the reporter.

Like the archaeologists in the early Zionist days were not totally cynical, like, we're going to find stuff and call it Jewish and make a Jewish state. It was much more of an actual, like, as she. puts it a mutually constitutive project where like they were developing the idea of Israel and they were uncovering objects and that you know on some level or a lot of the objects were in fact from the ancient kingdom of Israel and so it became a self-fulfilling prophecy and basically what happens though is that as this project goes on the the Bible or the Old Testament basically is like calcified into a textbook, right? Because they're using everything

they find to sort of selectively prove stories from the Old Testament. And as they're doing that, that then becomes like the bedrock of evidence, forgive the pun, for like the next bit of research that they're doing. And so over time, as they're uncovering more of Israel and then later, you know, outside the green line after 1967, they are just uncovering the kingdom of Israel everywhere they look. At a certain point, well, at a very clear point, actually, after 1967, the field of archaeology becomes much more like specifically wept, turned into a weapon. So no longer just like a science that is sort of part of this project.

But basically like the politicians or the settler movement, I should say, the settler movement realizes, oh, this is really useful, actually, because it allows us to, you know, ground all of our land claims in science. And so the settler movement basically grabs hold of archaeology and develops their own sort of academy, which still, which is thriving today and frankly is a pariah, even a lot of Israeli archaeologists won't work with them. Right. Because their, because their form of archaeology goes from what was, I think, more of an earnest project, which was still, to be clear, like an ethno-nationalist project, but it was like an

earnest one to one that is like explicitly being used as a weapon, which is where it is today. And like, just the last thing I'll say about that is I think that the way it goes from being this earnest field of study to a weapon is, again, it's a natural progression, right? because after 1967, archaeologists who had been working in Israel, uncovering, you know, shards of pottery and being like, look, Israel, you know, here's another way. Look, more Jewish stuff. They then hop over the green line and they just are doing the exact same thing because that's what they do, except now they're no longer in Israel. Now they're in, you know, Egypt and Jordan, basically. Right. And so like that's what happened. That's the problem with ethno-nationalism.

It's like, well, you know, you've opened a can of worms and now, now you can't close it. And so suddenly the West Bank becomes Israel. I mean, if you listen to the settlers now, like, they'll go into Syria, Lebanon, like deeper and Jordan. I mean, you know, greater Israel is becoming greater and greater. And, yeah, I mean, archaeology is really sort of like the underpinning of all of it. Right, yeah. And the, you know, the way in which they use it to bolster their claim. on the land, not just obviously within, quote, legal Israel in 48, but in the West Bank specifically

has been, it's almost comical the way it's been used as like propaganda for selling their justification and selling their, you know, reason why they're allowed to, you know, do all this. we have a few just headlines from, you know, multiple different sources. I mean, just so we've got, you know, Netanyahu boasts about, quote, ancient Jerusalem coin turns out to be kid souvenir. There is from the times of Israel, museum loans prime minister, 2600-year-old, quote, Netanyahu tablet, ancient cuneiform Babylonian artifact bearing the name Benyenne. Benayahu, Ben Netanyahu

will be shown to visiting dignitaries. I love that. Can we just comment on who the dignitaries are for people who are not watching the screen? Yeah, if you are someone who's just looking closely. Holy shit. Holy shit.

The dignitaries are Aerosmith. Aerosmith meets Netanyahu. That is just so far. I love. I love visiting dignitaries, you know, being the you know the guys who wrote

Janie's Got a Gun and other great songs Yose's Got a Gun Yeah Yes But yeah this You know It's almost comical Love in an Excavator

Wow Very good Holy shit Wow I was beating myself up For not having a quick walk this way pun Yeah yeah yeah

And then I realized no don't get attached There's other Aerosmith songs in the Canon Yeah I realized that Most of my Aerosmith knowledge comes from everything they did post-Armageddon soundtrack. So it's either this one or crazy. I can't wait to watch this video later. I can't wait.

You know what? We're going to watch it right now. Yeah, let's watch it right now. It is too good. Listen, you guys are all big bust-on. I'm the only one of the wheel that was there. It's funny. This is from 2018.

And you know what? Aerosmith still looks old as fuck. This is your second visit to his one, right? Right. Okay. Well, you don't want to miss a thing, right? Oh, fuck off. Fuck you.

They should have... I'm sorry, but you find yourself in the same room with Netanyahu does that pun. And honestly, like, that could have come out of Daniel's mouth. I hate to say. I know. That's why I grimaced. That's why I cringed. You're like, oh, no.

fuck you're like you're still giving seven out of ten just like I still think love and an excavator is better

oh way better that's 10 out of 10 we've been traveled a lot and we were here 23 you know from the biblical period and it was found

right next to the western wall which is the where Herod's temple was but and where Jesus was but this priest dates it by about 700 years these guys don't give a shit

they're just like God damn around like uh okay we're not impressed we're older than that yes he's about to show off his ring the signature of one of the Jewish kings came after yeah he came after King David

this Jewish king his name is Hezekiahs in the Bible and this is one of his officials that's the name in ancient Hebrew of this official So his name is Netanyahu, Ben Yoash, which means some of your ash. So, you know, we've been around here a long time. Okay, I'm sorry, but, like, that is a really funny, like, you can't try to prove, like, your indigenous status. When you chose the name, Benjamin Netanyahu, that's not your actual name.

That other Netanyahu didn't change his name from Malewski. Yeah, exactly. That's fucking ridiculous. Can you believe this? That's my name. Oh, that's great. A few more pictures with... Can you sing of something?

Cover of the news? I don't want to miss it. He just made the same joke again. That's all he's got. God, it's so... Let me just say like that thing that just Nen Yahoo's showing them, you know, rocks and like, old jewelry and stuff and like pointing out that this is all you know ancient jewish history

you're like that is uh you see it everywhere at every museum um like taught like this is such a sort of central part of the the culture is pulling things out of the ground and being like look another jewish thing yes and um and and like it should be said that first of all a lot of that stuff is in fact from the ancient kingdom of Israel, I'm sure. I don't know exactly what he was showing them, but like, you know, we know that that was one of the many civilizations that were there. But the problem is that should have nothing to do with land rights. These are just two completely different things. And as there's this great archaeologist named Alon Arad, who's an Israeli archaeologist, works for this, he's the director of this organization called

MX Chaba, which is they fight against the weaponization of Israeli archaeology. What he points out is like if this is, if that is what we're going by, then the entire world order falls apart. Yes. Like, you know, of course, like Americans have no right to be in America. Right. And like the Greeks get a lot more than they currently have and India and like everything just falls apart. And so it's just bizarre that in this one place, it's like the, you know, the rocks and the part pottery shards determine who gets to live here. What do they do? Go ahead there. You've got Alon Arad's quote here.

Yeah. And it says, as the archaeologist Alon Arad, the head of an Israeli NGO that fights against the instrumentalization of archaeology in Israel pointed out to me, the connection between the presence of artifacts and current land rights does not withstand much scrutiny. Following the same logic, Arad said, Italy can claim ownership of over half of England. Mongolia can claim ownership of most of Eastern Europe and Greece can claim ownership over India. It depends where you cut in time. But the Israeli state has constructed an effective machine

for converting archaeological discovery into territorial power. And yeah, that to me was like such an interesting point, almost like an obvious point. It feels like so much of this, you know, you could just be like, well, yeah, if you, you know, under any scrutiny you would be like well how does this translate to you have the right to displace a people you have the right to do ethnic cleansing you have the right to do genocide especially given the fact that this land um that you're claiming you know oh it's mine because uh our ancient ancestors lived here

has also been lived on by a ton of other people's ancient ancestors right and the israelites were not the first. Of course, they are not the last. You know, the fact... I'm surprised that in Jurassic Park, the dinosaurs didn't try to use archaeology to prove their... They didn't have to use force.

They could have just used archaeology to prove their dominion over the entire thing. And then ethnically cleansed us. That's a very good point. Another thing that Arad said that did not make it into the article was, frankly, all the land on Auschwitz decal

all the concentration that should all be Jewish land too because whose bones are underneath there like it's early hours and so again like it just

the slightest bit of scrutiny you realize oh this doesn't hold up at all yeah so but because of that I mean most of these archaeologists I talked to a lot of

settler archaeologists and you know settlers who are just passionate about archaeology and all sorts of people like that and they're very careful to say

well to be clear, we don't actually need the archaeology, because it's the Bible that, you know, gives us the ultimate right to be here. But archaeology proves the Bible. And also, you know, the settlements here are the last line of defense against the Arabs who want to come into Israel and attack them. So it's also a security match. So they have, it's this catalogic where it's like, they have six different arguments about why the land should be theirs. Each one of them ostensibly should be like the only argument they need. But because all, of them just fall apart under a little bit of scrutiny, they have to sort of piece them all

together. Yeah, you've got to have lots of really shitty arguments to make up for the fact that you don't have a good argument. You don't have a good argument at all. But you start with your conclusion. Right. Yes. Exactly. And the conclusion is the Bible says it's the opposite of science. Yes. And speaking of the opposite of science, another thing that you write about is, you know, in this article about what's going on in Sebastian is the fact that the method of excavating, the method of doing archaeology itself is incredibly, it's not just that it's unscientific, but that it's damaging towards literally the land that they're trying to, that they claim they're trying to study and preserve, you know,

the history of. Yeah. Yeah, that's one of the great iron. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, I have some more from your article. Let's see, the most glaring contradiction to Shagai, what is it, Sharghai? Sure, let me just contextualize this a little bit, Matt. So Shagai is a settler who runs this organization with preserving the eternal or something, which basically what it does is they accuse Palestinians of looting and vandalizing and damaging archaeological ruins. And because of that, they use that as they're sort of just,

justification for like kicking them off the land that's on archaeological ruins, which to be clear is like almost the entire West Bank. So so this next paragraph you're reading is in response to her saying, oh, well, they're damaging the archaeology. So that's why we need it. Right. Yes. That's that's too bad. I was going to call my startup company Preserving the Eternal. It's a project. It's a company where we make take little pieces of God and make jam out of it. Oh, okay. Preserves of the eternal. We put God in jars and I love it. Pickle them and ferment him. Uh-huh. Daniel? Keeps forever. I love it.

I love it. We have a business. Guys, we finally have merch. God in a jar. G.D. and a J.R. All right. Let's see. So, let's see. According to Abu al-Haj, Israelis have used bulldozers at Diggs to quickly, quote, get down to the earlier strata, which are saturated with national significance, close quote. In one dig, she participated.

But they do electrospectrometer, you know, analysis of it, and it's just the national significance. Yeah, yeah. Quotion of these things is just off the hook, the machines almost break. Yes. It's like the Ghostbusters ectometer, you know. Yeah, right, exactly.

We're at 99% national significance underground. We just got to dig through some Roman columns. So, it says, in one dig she participated in, organized by the Department of Archaeology at Tel Aviv University, she claimed that bulldozers, quote, summarily destroyed the remains above the layer of interest. What's another, what's a synonym for layer? Zone, maybe. Zone, yeah. Let's see. Poser also recorded the use of tunneling, quote, considered bad practice by most archaeologists.

who ordinarily excavate from the top soil down, removing each layer one by one to avoid conflating time periods at an excavation led by the settler organization, Ila, in East Jerusalem. After we spoke in his office, Gazal led us through the village and down a staircase to a graveyard of Roman monuments, shrouded in weeds and moss, an eroded lion's head, a cracked coffin, fragments of a sarcophagus half buried in dirt. Well, that brings us to a question I wanted to ask you. What do they do with when they find stuff that doesn't buttress the, doesn't have, quote, national significance? Right. Good question.

Yeah, that's the stuff that they're bulldozing. I mean, it's basically debris. You know, anything that is not. So, like, bulldozing is considered, you know, you just don't do it in archaeology because it's because what's the point of archaeology if not to protect the things you're excavating. Right. But if you know that, you know,

oh, well, this civilization, the layer that we're at now came before the Jewish one, then like, we got to just get this shit out of the way. Look, if you're going to make a national omelet, you're going to break a few wonders of the world, you know? Well, okay, but here's where it gets really, really cynical. Even the, the ostensibly Jewish stuff, they make the argument that the Palestinians in Sebastian are damaging it, vandalizing it.

And then they come in to, like, enforce their regulations. And in the process, they destroy the ruins that they are, you know, claiming to come to protect. So like a very real example from when I was there was the local municipality had put up a series of like a dozen or so street lamps on a dark. street, in Sebastian, where a teenager had been murdered by soldiers a couple months earlier. So they wanted to light up the street to make people feel more safe. The IDF comes in with some bulldozers and they say, actually no, sorry, they don't say anything. They just come in with some bulldozers, literally just take down all the streetlights. In the process, they knocked down these ancient columns that were from the Jewish time in history.

And then they just leave town. Later, I reached out for comment, and what was amazing is they said they had to go in there and demolish the lights because they were built on archaeological ruins. And I was like, okay, but you came in and you destroyed the ruins, and then they just stopped responding to me. So that's kind of like all this is they pretend that this is the thing they care about. And then they come in and they destroy the thing that. they claim to care about because they have ultimately what they're trying to do is like destroy the town, destroy their infrastructure, try to drive people out. So they're just constantly showing what they actually care about, which is not, it's not the ruins there. No. Yeah. It's like literally

it's either a justification for doing, um, you know, uh, ethnic cleansing or making life just increasingly uncomfortable or stealing more land, or it's trinkets for the sake of propaganda. This is, you know, the basic approach to the science of archaeology. We should also say that Sebastian, I forget exactly how much like $8, 9, 10 million was just allocated a year or two ago by the Israeli government to turn the archaeological ruins in Sebastian into what is effectively like a biblical Disneyland. right um which is kind of like what they already have in the city of david in east jerusalem right yeah but you know it's it's it is literally an amusement park where like people come in and are led on like

this interactive journey showing like you know the ancient israelites conquering the land and blah blah blah and it is just pure propaganda yes ride the ferrissey wheel no honestly it is like that. Actually, in Ta-Nehisi Coates' new book, he talks about it. He does, yeah. Laser light shows and a zip line. It's insane. And that's what they're trying to do to Sebastian, which is like this really quiet farming village. And they're just trying to turn it into a tourism hub for for Jewish people. Right. Yeah. And not just for Jewish people. I think, like, what's interesting about the way or like who else these artifacts I think are who else is excited by these artifacts it's a lot of these Christian Zionists like these things like a Bible you know

theme park like they have you know like they're trying to create right now like you said in Sebastian like that appeals to these evangelical Christians who like like to go to Israel And see, see, this is why we need Israel to exist because they appreciate our, you know, religion of Christianity. Why else did they make this wax sculpture of Jesus? You know? Yeah. Yeah, no, evangelical groups in the U.S. just pour money into the organizations in Israel that do, that build these projects, these Disneyland type things.

Yeah, I feel like, like Jews, I mean, I can, I can. can't speak for Jews, uh, in general. I can speak for myself and say that as a Jew, uh, as, as and as a Jew, um, you know, something like that, like a biblical theme park does not appeal to me. It makes me giggle. That's, that's funny. But then you realize like, oh, this is for people who are like, you know, uh, Christian Bible TV viewers. You know what I mean? Um, and I think we're going to get into more about that, but first we have to take a little bit of a break, guys.

Before we do, can I, can I, can I give one one aerosmith pun that I just excavated from my, from whatever part of my brain produces? Do it. Dude looks like a lebanite. Hey, very good, very good. Jasper's not a fan, but I liked it.

I thought your other one was better. Yes. It was. It was. But, you know, we have to take all these things out of the ground, dust them off and see. Yeah. you know that science we don't we don't we don't prejudge we have to right we have to dig them out we have to excavate all of the puns and then just see which one we're putting into the national archives uh but let's take a quick commercial break everyone stick around we'll be right back and we're back it's bad has barra we're here with jasper nathaniel how you doing jasper

i'm great thank you good Good, good, good. I am doing great as well. Daniel is doing great. He's thinking of more puns for Aerosmith's songs and archaeological digs, because sometimes you've got to do brain exercises. I want to get into an article regarding this archaeology stuff we've been talking about. This is from CBN Israel. And I just first want to point out, this is not the Canadian Broadcasting Network. I thought at first, I was like, oh, is that a Canadian thing? And then it's at Israel at the bottom. I was like, well, that seems strange. No, this is the Christian, what is it, Christian Bible Network or Christian Broadcasting? Broadcast Network. Yes. The Christian Broadcast

Network, you may know them from, you know, various clips online you may have seen of old shaky white men talking about how Jews need to all move to Israel. so that they can, you know, convert to Christianity or die in the, what do they call it? What's the thing at the end where everyone dies? The rapture? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I thought I was going to call it like the other Holocaust that they are stoked about, the good Holocaust.

But, yeah, so they did. I imagine that that glory day where just Blondie's rapture will be playing all over the globe. Daniel, can I get a ruling on? quote, toys in the Aramaic? I'm down. He likes it. He likes it. Give it a number. Yeah. I don't know that it'll be like have pride of place in the exhibit, but like maybe if not in the actual gallery, then definitely in the lobby.

Yes. So this is a whole article that they did, and this is one of many types of articles where the headline is essentially just propaganda straight up. It says, archaeology proves Israel is the Jewish homeland by Arlene Bridges Samuels. Imagine that about any other discipline. Like, biology proves. Yeah, biology proves the white race is best race. I mean, in a way, this is not too dissimilar from this, like, pseudo-race science, you know, the way in which, you know, people use and used, you know, DNA or French.

Phenology or anything to like make a scientific Uh put a scientific veneer uh on what is essentially just like a fascist project. This is like geology meets phrenology. Yes. Yes, exactly like archie, archie phrenology. And it should be said that like part of this science is that you know determining that there's no such thing as a Palestinian. Right. Right. They're just there. These are actually just Arabs. There is no Palestine that this is like another sort of fundamental part of what they're you know quote science has has uncovered right they haven't uncovered a single Palestinian flag yeah no exactly they keep digging but they're all burned Jasper you you did a quick Google search of Arlene Bridges Samuels can you tell us

who Arlene is yes let me just pull up her LinkedIn directly she is the southeast region Christian outreach director at APEC so I didn't even know I I guess it makes perfect sense, but I did not realize that APEC had Christian outreach directors. And if you think about the Southeast region, that's going to include Atlanta and Florida. Oh, she gets Florida. I mean, and, you know, I think people know this, but Mike Huckabee, the ambassador to Israel, is a total evangelical Zionist freak. Yes, yeah, exactly. I mean, he's someone who has been saying, you know, obviously.

long before October 7th, you know, every time someone mentioned the West Bank, he would say, there is no West Bank. Judea and Samaria. Judea and Samaria. That's for, you know. There is no Dana only Zool. There is no Dana only Zool, exactly. There is no Dana only Zionism.

Yes. So let's read a little bit of this article about how archaeology, a science that we love in certain cases, I always love when Christians like choose when science is real. That's right. There is no Dinosaur bones. Dinosaur bones, fake. Yeah, exactly. Dinosaur bones, fake.

Old coin with the star of David on it, real and useful. Made of plastic, yeah. Yeah, here we go. No one questions the historic legitimacy of Egypt's Sphinx, Italy's Pantheon, or Greece's Acropolis, nor the indisputable claims to their ancient heritage. Yet many individuals and organizations attempt to submerge Israel's history. and liquidate its claims to their ancient Jewish homeland. So true.

I don't think liquidate is the word she's looking for there. No. I love the organizations attempt to submerge Israel's history. No, that's just called topsoil. See, what happens is after a while, things get submerged. That's how ancient stuff works. Yeah, it's anti-Semitic to bury ancient Jewish remains in so much dirt. Yeah, exactly.

We're trying to, we're trying to dig up these graves that we're, dug by absolute anti-Semites in ancient times. Yet ancient discoveries once again serve as proof for the biblical account with a new discovery in Jerusalem, which thrilled archaeologists last week. They described it as a once-in-a-lifetime find. While digging near the city of David, they were astonished to discover, in their words, quote, three immaculately preserved 2700-year-old decorated column heads or capitals, from the first temple period indicate a connection to the Davidic dynasty.

So the dynasty of King David. That's right. Their photographs show beautifully designed stone capitals that likely were once situated at top columns of a palace or a state. Five shackled coins from the 3,000-year-old era display the same design motif, exclamation mark. Who would deny Israel its historic significance? She means historical. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes.

A complicit United Nations filled with those possessing a fierce anti-Israel bias is quick to distort history. I love it. I love it when they try to implicate the United Nations as being like particularly anti-Israel and it's just a cover for doing anti-Arab racism. That's nice. UNESCO, the United Nations educational, scientific, and cultural organization is one of the chief purveyors of such bias. UNESCO's stated purpose is to assess cultural landmarks and designate world heritage sites to, quote, promote cultural heritage and the equal dignity of all cultures. Shamefully, UNESCO has targeted Israel's holiest sites, thereby undermining that nation's dignity and removing the equality given to other nations. Yes, Israel's dignity has been stripped of it by who, by UNESCO.

Yes, yes. One of, you know, one of many organizations that just will not let Israel be dignified in. I wonder if UNESCO knew about October 7th before October 7th, like UNRWA, yeah, you have to wonder. Yeah, anything with a UN in front of it at this point is. Actually, archaeologists were thrilled to uncover. more evidence that UNESCO is Hamas. Exactly, yeah, like paper airplanes. We found 3,000-year-old remains that says UNESCO was planned October 7th,

and that they planned to kidnap more of our soldiers. Thank you. I also think it's funny that they're complaining here about removing the equality given to other nations. Yeah. Yeah. Equality, famously, an Israeli value. Yeah. Also famously, very easily removed. Israel knows a thing or two about that. By the way, just to be clear, the United Nations and frankly, every, almost just about every major institution that, you know, has opinions on these things,

recognize all the archaeology inside of Israel proper. Right. Like the Israeli archaeology academy is thriving. And like the, you know, they go to international conferences and blah, blah, blah. It's just the archaeology in the occupied territories, which is illegal. It's against international law. Right. That groups like the UN, UNESCO and other organizations take issue with.

And so like just the whole premise of this, which is like the UN is anti-Israel, it's like, no, actually they are fully supportive of Israeli archaeology. It's just the parts that are not Israel that Israel is trying to excavate in like East Jerusalem. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's just the whole thing of like writing a bulldozer across the Middle East looking for old shattered coins. By the way, there's there's um you may remember hearing about, uh, there was a deadly, okay, so some some idea of soldiers went into southern Lebanon probably late last year where they were not supposed to they kind of like went rogue and there was an attack and either one one or two soldiers and an old man were killed and there was like an investigation like what the hell were these people doing up there and it turns out

the old man was like a amateur archaeologist yeah he volunteered right to go with the army he no he he didn't volunteer he was like I'm going who's coming with me like he oh he He led it. He, like, recruited some soldiers to, like, go with him into some ancient archeological site in Lebanon and got them all killed. And actually, the father of the soldier is one of these guys who's, like, wreaking havoc at every, like, Nanyahu appearance, like, demanding to know details of his son's death. So, anyway, you know, archaeology has literally gotten a couple of Israelis killed just during the course of this war alone. I mean, that's... to make a three kings style like you know like almost slapstick misadventure comedy

buddy comedy out of that expedition yeah yes a cohen brothers movie about the archaeologist who gets everyone excited to dig in someone else's fucking country yeah gets everyone killed yeah like i think that is to me is um like a perfect example of uh the way in which um archaeology is not just some sort of like passive force you know and the idea that it is generally scientific

and completely you know unbiased the way science should be I mean that's a perfect example of this is someone who's a deputized you know archaeologist

for the military of Israel you know for the state of Israel and just being like hey guys with guns we're already going into Lebanon time to do some digging to see how much of this shit is ours and there's shekels in them there hills that that's exactly what happened in 1948 was Ben-Gurion basically sent out you know the the like the military to support these massive digs in 1967 as soon as they took the territory archaeologists were basically run out there by soldiers so like it's always been very intertwined and like just

to give you a very real example, a current example of this, in Sebastian, the mayor of Sebastian, a man named Muhammad Azam, one night at like midnight or one or two in the morning, was pounding at his door, a group of soldiers stormed in, led his little children and wife by gunpoint into, lock them in a room, sat him down, basically told him that he was needed at this settlement for a discussion. So they go to the settlement and in the room is, oh man, I'm blanking on his name right now, but he basically is the head of archaeology for the Israeli civil administration, which is the Israeli civil administration for those who don't know is like the sort of

pseudo government of Israel that manages the West Bank. Right. And it was the head of archaeology who is not in the military. He's a bureaucrat, frankly, who warned the mayor, he said, if you continue to do work in or around area B or area C near archaeological sites, there will be serious consequences. And that was then followed by the military coming in and doing, you know, basically like just demolishing things and shooting people. So you literally have like the head of this, the bureaucratic head of archaeology who is issuing threats that the military is then backing up. so yeah to the mayor of uh of a Palestinian town of I mean Sebastian is what five five thousand people or six that five six thousand right and you know the there it's

not just that they're you know calling him on the phone in his office is they are they're they're terrorizing him they break in to his home at night they braid it and they say hey you got to come to the police station this is like these are terrorist tactics And that's no, I mean, this guy, the mayor is terrorized constantly. Of course. Thrown in the back of jeeps, driven around. Like, yeah, it's nonstop. Yeah.

And, you know, to do it for the sake of archaeology is just so, you know, because you just, this is why I always found this, you know, type of, you know, tool in the Zionist toolkit. So, like, fascinating because, like, you know, the only archaeologists that are of any, interest to people are like Indiana Jones maybe is Laura Croft is she a is she a archaeologist Tomb Raider I'm not sure but you know it's like using archaeology for the sake of doing this is just so it's just so monstrous I'd love to see an Indiana Jones uh uh movie where where harrison four is like damn it yeah I will not you know will not be used by like the Mossad or whoever like blackmails him into doing a thing and it's you know bastardizing the the field of archaeology and he

has to go but so the but the but the uh he ends up turning on them you know and instead of the Nazis you have the Zionists I like that that's where you went with it I was just thinking of a Zionist Indiana Jones yeah right well from what I hear it belongs in a Jusium thank you I think that in the Taunahisi Coates book he describes being made to watch That's the city of David, the biblical theme park in Jerusalem. He describes being made to watch a video that is guided by what is essentially a Zionist Indiana Jones. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right.

I mean, they have fully, you know, locked into the sort of cultural objects around archaeology. You have chosen Jewishly. Thank you. All right. Continue. So here's her next complaint about UNESCO. In a controversial 2016 resolution, UNESCO decided to use only Arabic terminology for the Temple Mount, calling it Haram al-Sharif,

not the Hebrew Haribait, or Temple Mount, as we call it. UNESCO calls Judaism's holy site, the Western Wall, by its Arabic name al-Burak, rather than its Hebrew name, ha Kotel ha ma'aravi, Kotel for short. By doing so, UNESCO deliberately ignores 3,000 years of Jewish geographical and cultural lineage, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It attempts to rewrite Israel's history, one word. at a time. And then it goes on to quote, Benjamin Netanyahu, who asserted to say that Israel has no link to the Temple Mount is like saying that China has no link to the Great Wall or that

Egypt has no connection to the pyramids. Former U.S. Ambassador of the United Nations and famous not crazy person, Nikki Haley correctly branded it as an affront to history. Yeah. By the way, the Temple Mount is it's in East Jerusalem. Like, it's it's not part of israel right like even these people should be able to just acknowledge that it's not in israel right and if if we could someday get to the place where jerusalem was truly an international city recognized under international law in the context of some kind of shared binational situation then there might be some uh some case to make right yeah you got to just read the very last sentence that you have on the screen

It's, it's, uh, yeah, this is fun. For the last 20 years, numerous archaeological discoveries all over Israel have been literally written in stone. Okay. The discoveries are physical proof, not a UNESCO document. It is rock solid evidence that God gave Israel to the Jews, a divine deed to their ancestral homeland. Archaeology proves that the Bible is true.

Absolutely. But, I mean, it's hard to not just focus on the writing quality. it's fantastic while paleontology by contrast proves that god is a joker right yes exactly god just like to do these little pranks where he buries dinosaur bones around just to see uh who's going to use it to blaspheme uh it's a it's a great bit that he does lawless to start a youtube channel like love god is kind of like uh he's kind of like the original mr beast you know he's got all these like challenges uh there we go oh boy Boy, oh boy, now we're getting into some scripture.

In Genesis 15, 18, to 21, God visited Abraham and made his plan clear. I will assign this land to your offspring. When Isaac was miraculously born, God's plan was in motion with his covenant, a contract. And then God said, kill that boy. It is eternal and unconditional. J.K. Mr. Beast. I love it. The original candid camera.

The thumbnail, God. I told my best friend to kill his son. son. Punked. Adonai addition. It is eternal and unconditional. Despite millennia of catastrophic wars, dispersions, exiles, diaspora, Ottoman and British occupation, and the Holocaust,

God reestablished the Jewish homeland when Israel was reborn as a modern state in 1948. It was definitely the British occupation that did that, not God. I mean, she should learn. a little more about the history and all the Brits played. I mean, this is just painful. Maybe Balfour was God. Oh, shit.

Oh, interesting. Well, never thought about that. Yeah, let's skip this and go to a paragraph a few slides later. Yeah, this is the one I love. I love this sentence. Each archaeological discovery adds another layer of truth to the fact that Jerusalem and all of Israel is the Jewish home. I love it.

I imagine like a painter, you know, adding another coat of veneer to some fact, you know, like, no, I still see, I still see some, you know, reasonable doubt peaking through. Can you, can you slap another layer on there? Yeah, yeah. Let's just keep adding little bits of truth at a time. Just try to kind of like stack this, stack this up really high. That way people don't dig down deep and kind of break through all the bullshit. That fact doesn't look truthful in. enough yet. Yeah. Can you, uh, can you just, uh, dump a bunch more truth on this? That would be helpful. Yeah. Just adding another layer of truth is a really funny euphemism for lie. Yeah, exactly. Another layer of truth. Yeah. You should just need one layer of truth. Yeah, right. Truth is just truth. Right. So we need more layers. Yeah. Uh, just fast forwarding down the page, UNESCO has utterly failed the Israeli history course, but the Bible remains accurate, proven

by the very stones that silently broadcast the eternal message from the god of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Yeah, beautiful, beautiful stuff here. I mean, you know, like, it's, you know, this archaeology thing, I think,

is interesting because of the fact that it's so appealing to both types of Zion. You know, you have the Western, you know, Western Zionists, Western American liberal Zionists, I think, use it all the time, you know, to talk about the scientific basis of, you know, Israel's claim to the land. And, of course, what should be a big, I don't know, red flag, if I'm one of these, like, science-based liberal Zionists would be, you know, who agrees with you? people who think dinosaurs are lies people who think

that the earth is 6,000 years old are also like yes I love this archaeology that should be a sign that perhaps it is not as scientific as you think of it well and of course it's very

go ahead Jesper I've been terrific I mean like that's sort of the great irony is like the settler archaeologists who are all like you know basically

messianic in their beliefs. It's like, which is it, man? You got to choose, you know, you trust the science or you trust the religion, but this, the science proves the religion. And then the religion becomes science. It's just, it's just, you know, it's insane. I wanted to ask you about the settler aspect because, you know, Matt mentioned the two kinds of Zionists.

There's a third. So you've got the liberal Zionists in the West. You've got the Christian Zionists in the West. And then you've got these settlers. And what the archaeology gives them is bullseyes. you know, it gives them targets. Yes. And then whatever Palestinian community happens to live on or near that land,

and they don't live under the earth with the relics. They live on the surface of the earth where people who are alive live, who people who might conceivably have human rights live, it gives the terrorists, which is to say the settlers, a place to terrorize. So what is the impact on Palestinian communities on the human level of this? this, you know, maniacal possessiveness of what is under people's feet? Okay.

It takes place on a couple levels. Just starting with like the sort of real material stuff, I mean, a lot of Palestinian communities are subject to the bulldozer. But in Sebastian, the Israeli military and the, you know, the, Israeli military and the, you the Israeli civil administration are coming in all the time and just demolishing infrastructural projects. So that could be like a new irrigation system, it could be a lighting network, it could be a, you know, just like a series of shops, homes, buildings, and they're always doing it

under the auspices of, you know, protecting archaeological ruins, which is like sometimes they come in and destroy something that they just built. You built this on, you know, so-and-so's tomb. Other times they come in and just, like, destroy something that's been there for decades. And it's like, okay, you just figured it out now, or what is it exactly? So it basically is just like giving them, you know, more sort of justification to come in and demolishings. Whereas, like, just for reference, in Masfayata, where they're doing the same thing, it's just a completely different justification. There, it's a military training zone.

And so they need to basically clear all the ground so that they could do their like, you know, shooting practice and stuff. So like that is to say that in all these communities that are in Janine, it's that they have to root out the terrorists. Like they have their justification in every place. Here it's the archaeology. What that also means is that basically like the soldiers are coming in every single day and for missions, you know, ostensible missions around. protecting the archaeology. So like the one that's been happening in the last year is there's a Palestinian flag that is on basically the highest point in Sebastian that they claim is, the settlers claim is like near King Harad's tomb or something like that. Doesn't even matter.

And so the settlers basically think it's an eyesore. And, you know, they're crying that it's built on this sacred land. And so the soldiers come in every single day to take the flag down. And they've been, basically, when I was there, it was getting more and more violent. They started coming in, firing shots in the air, pointed their guns at a group that I was with. And then they just started shooting people. So they maimed somebody while I was there. And a 14-year-old boy was killed by sniper a couple months ago. And so, like, all of this, when you reached out to the idea for comment, they always mention the archaeology.

So in that sense, it's like, it's actually there's nothing unique about it because it's like every other place. in the West Bank where they have some justification. The other thing though is that Smotrich, who I know you guys know well, by the way Smotritch does not get enough credit for just how nefarious he is. Ben Gavir is just such a like absolute he's the loud one. He's the loud one and he's like so stupid

looking and like always saying idiotic things. Smotrich is like really sneaky and extremely dangerous. So basically there's two new policy initiatives. And Smotrich for those who need background, he is essentially since October 7th, he is in the Knesset or he is the administrator of, it seems like, of the entire West Bank, right? Yeah, I mean, he's technically the minister of finance in Israel,

but he was given extra duties to, Basically, yes, he's like the mayor of the West Bank. He controls all the money. And he's been systematically, you know, just like chipping away at Palestinian rights and doing, frankly, a very good job of it. And so the two ways that they're using archaeology through bureaucracy. Sorry to interrupt. I'm sorry to interrupt. His name contains both his job, but both his jobs, right?

The rich part is the treasury, the finance. The smote is all the people he killed. Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Please continue. Yes. No, thank you for that. So Smotrich, by the way, Smotritch is a settler. Him and Ben Gavir are both settlers. And so there's basically two policy initiatives. The first one is about giving the Israeli civil administration the right to administer archaeological law in area B, in addition to area C. So without getting too deep into it, like the West Bank split up into areas A, B, and C, which sort of dictates, you know, do the Palestinian Authority or does the Israeli military get to

rule over it? Area C is all Israeli control, security and administrative duties. Area B is supposed to be Palestinian administrative control. But this new policy initiative basically says, now Israel gets to control archaeology in area B. And so in a town like Sebastian, what that means is that even all the archaeology that is in Palestinian territory in Area B, now this new law says you can't build there, we can come in and demolish things there any time, you can't touch the ruins. So it is like this really effective zoning tool that they've just expanded into away from just purely what was Israeli controlled territory into Palestinian territory now formalizing what

they were already doing, which is these demolitions and stuff, but saying now it's actually law. You know, if this is around archaeology and area B, you can't touch it. So that's very sinister. The other one, which is in some ways scarier, is so if that first one is about helping Israel gain control from within the West Bank. The second one is about basically like softening the border between Israel and the West Bank so that Israel can just sort of swallow the West Bank into. you know, like basically declare sovereignty over it. And this is sort of the these real like rabid revisionist Zionists who want to take control

of the West Bank. Like this is sort of the rhetorical and the legal mechanism that they do it is by just sort of describing like the Green Line doesn't exist. The West Bank is part of Israel. Israel is part of the way. It's all the same thing. It's like taking the Photoshop smudge tool to the Green Line. Exactly.

And so and so what they're doing. So what they're doing actually is this new law, which is still sort of matriculating through the Knesset, is about taking control of archaeological sites in the West Bank away from the Israeli civil administration, which again is a group that governs the West Bank and giving it to the Israel Antiquities Authority, which is the government group that regulates archaeology in Israel proper. So it sounds like it's just this sort of like bureaucratic thing like, okay, controls going from this Israeli group to that Israeli group. But actually what it's doing is it is breaking what had been a firewall between managing Israel and managing the West Bank and saying, actually, no, the Israeli Antiquities Authority, which is part of Israel now gets to govern over these parts of the West Bank. So it's sort of disguised as this like who's managing the archaeology thing. But actually what it's doing is, again, chipping away at the green line. that is supposed to separate Israel from the occupied territories. And Ilan Arad and lots of people that I talk to basically see this as like a sort of a Trojan horse.

It's like this is just, you know, come in with this archaeological law that nobody's going to pay attention to. And suddenly they've like begun the process of erasing the green line. So yeah. What do, you know, some of the Israelis that you spoke to seem to have some issue. or take some issue with the way in which archaeology was being used. What is, what's the general sense you got about, like, pushback about this? And I know there's been pushback in the archaeological community in that, like, you know, these West Bank archaeologists are essentially shunned by archaeologists all over the world as being, you know.

Yeah. And is that for moral reasons or professional ethics reasons? Like you're despoiling the sanctity of our trade, our profession, rather than your genocidal maniacs. Well, I can't speak to the global archaeology community, but I can give you sort of the currents in Israel. So there's basically like three distinct groups. One of them would be the archaeologists who are excavating in the occupied territories. So that's like the settlers and not just settlers, also like archaeologists from Israel who will go into the West Bank and do excavations, which again is breaking international law.

So that's like the good money in it. I bet they get well paid for that. I bet there is. I bet there's a lot of money coursing through the settlements, you know, in the settlement organizations, period. So yes, I think that's true. The other group on the other side would be the smallest group by far, very small sliver, which is people like Aeron Arad, who are Israeli archaeologists who explicitly are like,

this is ethically, morally wrong. You should not do this. the biggest group by far is the Israeli archaeologists who just say nothing and do nothing. Yeah. And now, well, I think it's the same reason that like the vast majority of people in Israel, even if they like might, well, I don't know where they are today. But like at one time, the majority of people, I think were like sort of ostensibly against the occupation of the West Bank.

But they didn't do anything about it. They didn't say anything about it because it was not really infringing on their life. And it was just sort of the way things were. And only once it becomes an actual threat to them, do they start speaking out? And so, like, in this case, the Israeli archeological community has finally started speaking out against the settlement archaeology because when this new law started going through the Knesset, which would have said the Israeli antiquities authority can work in the West Bank, the global archaeology community started basically saying, well, if you do that, then all of Israeli archaeology is now complicit. right because now it's the group that governs all of israeli archaeology that now is also doing the settler archaeology so now you're all complicit and so the the mainstream archaeologists who are not doing the west bank archaeology are like well hold on a minute we don't stand with the

settler archaeologists blah blah blah and so it's like just so brazenly out of self-interest and not for any particular moral reasons but that's what we want bDS to do i was going to say we want we want the, you know, the pariah status to have that self-interested effect. We don't, we can't assume, I mean, you could maybe theorize that their moral opposition to it is buried deep, deep down in their psyches and that we'd have to take some bulldozers to it to find it, but we don't have time for that. Yes, I think that's, I think that's absolutely true. It's, it's, I mean, in that sense, the global archaeology community could be, you know, you

this like you can't come to our conferences you can't publish in our journals you can't get funding from us that is a good weapon to use yeah I don't know the extent that you know the just like Zionist forces that be will be able to just overpower that so I guess we'll sure find out yeah but it is an interesting you know case in you know microcosm I suppose of just like watching the you know this very small this thing that you would consider to be like you know i mean it's a fucking group of world archaeologists like you know most people don't know what the fuck that's about just saying hey if you do this we're not gonna we're not gonna have any you know dealings with you at all and watching that turn a bunch of israeli

archaeologists go wait wait wait wait wait wait let's maybe let's maybe start speaking out against this i just uh yeah it's a great and it's interesting that that would be more uh that would have more leverage and more success in something like archaeology than say in the arts world right yeah yeah yeah well yeah well i think that like the the reason that archaeology in israel and the west bank became so like the reason i sort of really latched on to it was because i started to see that what's happening in the archaeology community as you just said matt is really a microcosm for like what's happening in israel where basically if you're an archaeologist in israel you know damn well what's happening across the green line.

You know that it's illegal. You know that it is your, literally like your field that is being used as the weapon, just as like the people in Israel know that the idea of a Jewish state is what's being used as a weapon against the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank and Golan Heights and so on and so forth.

But they don't say anything until, you know, the threat comes knocking on their door and they realize, oh, look at what we've allowed to happen. But again, like I argue in the piece that like this, there was no avoiding this. This is the natural, the inevitable conclusion of building a practice of archaeology that is rooted in ethno-nationalism. It's like it's going to turn into a weapon. Just like the idea of a Jewish state, you know, say what you will about what you think the like early, like if there were any non-synical early Zionists, like it actually makes no difference. question is like even if those people did have you know nothing but you know positive like good

faith plans what did they think was going to happen when they like just created this idea of a Jewish state in a land that was filled with non-Jewish people so yeah I mean it's a question of playing the tape all the way through you know it's just like where does this lead where does this go and yeah it is interesting I think the archaeology thing is such a you know fascinating slice of, you know, the state of Israel's toolbox when it comes to, you know, both ethnic cleansing and then also propaganda. It's just, it's like, it's like almost, I don't want to say an inflection point, but it's just like it's a point at which you can like see all the different facets that allow Israel to continue unopposed, at least in the

Western world doing these absolute crimes, you know. It's got something for everybody, the Christian Zionists, the regular Zionists, the scientists. And I like the suggestion that a field like this is a really good target for international pressure, you know, scientific and pseudoscientific disciplines that rely on international collaboration and all kinds of stuff. And, you know, it's, It's the perfect, in some ways, it's like, as Matt just said, the perfect storm for Israeli propaganda, but it might also be the perfect pressure point. Maybe we can pivot in the time we have left to another article you wrote about sort of the new wave of Israeli lying. And it's on your substack. People can check it out. We're not going to get into the entirety of it, but there's

one beautiful little slice that you included, which is a full. phone call that you had with something I didn't know existed, which is the IDF's International Relations Customer Service Complaint line or something. And you actually have a recording of this conversation. Can you give us the context for the article as a whole and what you were referring to in this on this phone call? Yeah. So basically I wrote the article right after the story of the execution of the rescue workers.

in Gaza started to fall apart is the IDF had issued a statement saying that like, you know, a vehicle was speeding towards them in threatening manner. They didn't have lights on. They didn't have emergency signals. And then, you know, of course, video came out that showed that all that was not true. And it just became very clear that they executed 15 rescue workers, buried them underground in a masquerade with their ambulances. And so I was just thinking when that happened like,

sorry, the ambulances were buried underground too? Yes, the ambulances were part of the masquerade. So as I say in the article, as I say in the article, like the IDF officials said, they buried the bodies to prevent wild animals from eating them. That's what they said. And so I asked, were they afraid the wild animals would eat the ambulances? Like, and so, and so. I'm surprised when they were uncovered.

They didn't like take the ambulances apart for like junk parts to see if any of the parts were made in Israel to prove that Gaza was Jewish. Yeah. So, anyway, I took that, like the sort of the way that that lie just fell apart in plain sight. And I was just thinking, like, it's about time that it's just everybody just openly acknowledges that everything that these people say is a lie. Yeah. Like, and, and, you know, you can, you can still actually support Israel and feel that way. Like, on two levels.

One, so, like, I compare it to the Trump administration. Like, at this point, everybody who's reasonable, no. is that like, this guy just lies constantly and everybody in his administration lies constantly. You can still support Trump and think that the lies are basically, you know, serving a greater purpose. Right. And that they're entertaining.

And almost that they're entertaining. They're a magic trick. They're hypnotism. They're fun to watch. Or you could also say, well, you know, I despise Trump and his lies, but I believe in America and I think that this is a detour. So the reason I say that is because I'm basically saying I don't, for the sake of, of this argument, I don't care if you're a Zionist, an anti-Zionist, I don't care what you think,

like, let's just look at the facts here. These people are just constantly lying. And so in the course of the article basically, like, I deconstruct a bunch of the lies and I sort of follow some of them to, you know, their conclusions and just show how absurd they all are. The anecdote that you're talking about, so this is the case, which I mentioned before, of a sniper shot a 14-year-old boy in Sebastian, killed him with a single bullet to the chest. while he was just walking with his friends. And so this happened just in January, a couple months ago. And I spoke to my sources in Sebastian,

and they sent me a satellite map that showed exactly where the shooting took place from. So it was over 300 meters away. So we're talking about like 1,000 feet away. A group of Israeli soldiers just posted up on basically the side of a hill and just shot a child. And so I reached out to the IDF for comment, and I didn't say right away, you know, I've seen the satellite map.

I just said, do you have comment on the 14-year-old boy who was shot and killed in Sebastian? And the first thing they said, they gave me their standard line, which is, you know, Israeli forces responded with fire to terrorist throwing rocks. And so their line was that, you know, terrorist throwing rocks, which is like what they just said when they killed an American Palestinian the other day in the West Bank. Like it's one of their lines, that the car ramming thing, like they have a handful of them. And so then I said, okay, interesting. I have a map here that shows that, um,

it was from 1,000 meters, 1,000 feet away or 300 meters away, are you suggesting that this boy was, you know, fucking John Elway or something? You know, and they just immediately dropped that claim and just say, an investigation is underway. Right. I'm saying, okay, great. Tell me about this investigation. They won't tell me anything.

So I say, okay, cool, I'll call back. So basically, that was in. Just for reference, the outfield fence is a minimum of 325 feet from home plate on the foul lines. 400 feet in center field. So imagine someone. We're talking about meters, three times further than. I mean, it's just like, again, it's like there's, it's not possible. And so like they don't even give any.

So like, I'm not the New York Times. I was reaching out in my capacity as a freelance journalist. So they don't give much thought to it. They're just like, oh, yeah, let's go with the rock throwing one. Like maybe they just like pick an excuse out of a hat. And then as soon as I called them on it, then they just drop it and say, investigation underway, which is like, you know, one of their. We have the audio. Should we play the audio? Well, let me just set, let me just set the audio up. So basically like, so that first call happens in January. Every single week since then, so maybe eight, nine times. I call them back and I ask about the investigation. And at first I was trying to get them to send me details of the investigation, which they just told me over and over they can't do. And so then I started calling and saying, listen, I just want you to give me a case number, show me an email, just proof that there is an investigation.

because I have no, because this happened three months ago, it's not in Gaza, there's no fog of war here, this happened in a quiet town, I want to know that there is an investigation. So this call that you're listening to is just from maybe a week ago, April 6th, and this is like maybe a minute into the call when I'm just again saying like, yeah, I mean, you'll hear it. You can just hit play. Like, whatever we have, I think we already sent you. No, but you haven't sent me anything. And I don't even like, I don't expect you to share details of the investigation. What I'm looking for is proof that there is an investigation because of it. Right, but we cannot send you proof of an existing investigation because that is, like, details of the investigation. Let me understand, like, how am I to believe that there's an investigation if you can't even, like, show me an email saying there's an investor, like, just literally I don't need details, but I'm looking for you to give me.

some reason to believe that there is an investigation. I mean, I don't know what you tell you. I just like, we cannot send you stuff from an ongoing investigation because they're considered, like anything that from that investigation is considered like proof from, um, you can't send you that. Like, it counts as details. Wait, one of the, I love that one of the details that is classified is that there's an investigation happening at all.

I think that she just like. kind of lost the pod. Oh, 100%. Her brain is malfunctioning. Proof of details. She just started like talking and I was just like listening like, oh, interesting. Proof is a detail and so we can't give you details. So we can't give you proof.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. I could interfere with the investigations. We can't send you proof. So there is an investigation. But you're knowing about it. It's Schrodinger's investigation. That's right. Yeah.

But I love this last line. is just, you know, source, just trust me, bro. Thank you, proof. I'm just going to trust on what we say. I just got to trust what you say. Like, it's just absolute, just completely ridiculous. Where were you last night? Not with my mistress, honey.

Can you tell me where you were? You just got to trust what I say. You just got to trust me. You got to trust me. Also, I should say that, like, when I, I didn't include the beginning of the call, but I was like, you know, I'm, I gave her the detail. I was like, I'm calling about the shooting of a 14-year-old boy near Nabolis in January. I'm calling to, well, and like, she basically interrupts me and it's like, the investigation is underway. And I was like, you have to like, look, I was like, do you have to look it up or like, you know, you just know this one case off the top of your head?

The person who happened to pick up the phone who is probably a teenager, just like, no, but it's. It's just like, it was just on the tip of her tongue, like, investigation underway. Yeah. It's like pick up the phone, say investigation underway, hang up the phone. That's the entire job. And you can tell, it's like you said, it's like a teen. I mean, you know, if it's not a, if it's not like a conscript, it's just someone's idea of like summer camp, you know, hey, I'm going to work for the IDF a little bit and answer phones. I'm sorry, sir.

Our investigation is very shy. It does not like being investigated. Yeah, exactly. It is absolutely insane to not even be able to produce proof that an investigation is happening. And, you know, it's just comical that she's like, well, because that proof would be giving you details of an investigation, just completely circular logic that ends up getting you absolutely nowhere. Which is the point. Everything they say. And like, frankly, the Biden administration was just utterly complicit in all of this, just like trusting, you know, basically Israel's like, you just got to trust what we say. And like Matt Miller, you know,

Biden's secretary of state communication guy would always just be like, we, we have asked Israel and they've told us this. And so that's it. Yeah. And so we believe them. And so that's kind of the point in my article. It's like, why are we, why is anybody giving them in the benefit of the doubt? And again, like, the thing that I actually appreciate about the settlers is that like they just, they're just very honest about how they feel and what they want. They're just like, yeah, we're taking all of it. Like, it's all fucking hours and what is like it's like when Baytar proudly says, we're not fringe, we're not extreme. We are the face of mainstream Zionism. I say, yes, you're right.

Yes. Exactly right. And the settlers, the ones who are willing to admit what they're up to have always been more honest about the project than the ones who want to pretend that it can coexist. with values that are palatable to a Western liberal audience. Right, the ones who want to pretend as if like, oh, the problem is them and have been repeating this lie over and over again, this idea of, oh, well, if only there weren't these crazed settlers, then we wouldn't have an issue. And I think nothing brings that into more clear focus than the last 17, 18 months in which

you have these liberal Zionists who have always been anti-occupied. Haitian, not anti-Zionist, you know, and specifically anti-Settler, doing everything they can in order to support whatever comes out of Israel and to make the focus of the conversation about anything other than what the fuck is going on. If you were truly anti-settler, if you were truly actually cared about this beyond just kind of like a talking point, bolster your liberal credentials. you would be doing nothing but talking about the West Bank and you would be doing nothing but like ignoring

the torrents of lies and distractions that have come out, you know, in the last 18 months about on-campus anti-Semitism and blah, blah, blah. You know, I recently saw, what is his name? Ben Glebe is a comedian out here in L.A. who goes on T.Y.T. Your brother, bang. My brother, bang. and you know he was having a debate in which he was essentially

supporting the idea of the deportation of Mahmoud Khalil you know maybe maybe not by the way Trump is doing it but just the general idea that you can do this and his entire argument was I you know I'm I've always been pro-Palestinian I've always been anti-settler and I'm like at this point, drop the facade. Yeah. What is the facade about at this point? You are currently, like, allowing for our government to deport people purely based on their, you know, opinions about Israel.

And you still carry this facade with you about settlers being bad and the main problem. And I don't like Netanyahu. It's like... Yeah, memo to Bernie Sanders? No. Yeah, I know. What a coincidence that the country called Netanyahu. is also run by a guy named Netanyahu.

Yeah, yes. Also just like the, the entire way that these liberal Zionists are like, I support Israel, but I'm anti-occupation. Like, it's treated like it says a little thing off to the side. Right. It's not like the central driving aim of Israel today is to like take over the land through settlement. And so it's, you can't be like, you know, like, well, I'm, I'm, you know, pro.

America, but like, I'm against the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. Right. Right. Exactly. What are we talking about? Right. Of Israel do you, because all of Israel is, you know, has walls around it to protect it from the Palestinians to stop them from coming.

So it's like you're, you're either pro all of it or you're against all of it. Right. And like basically like I think, I'm just tired of people being able to make that distinction. And I think, yeah, no more half measures, Walter. Yeah. You know, but this episode has given me some hope, you know, when we're, we talk about how how is the Zionist project going to end there's always been different options right like international pressure bDS uh implosion from within civil war military defeat while there's a

new one to add into the mix which is they will literally dig their own grave they're going to keep digging so far they're going to run out of shackle coins and fucking you know plastic souvenirs to pull out of the earth, they'll keep going all the way down past the crust and whatever, and the country will actually fall into the earth's core. Yo, this is how the fucking minds of Moriare like completely fucked itself when they fucking, they dug too deep and then the fucking, what's his name? Balrog? What's the big guy? The Balrog, yeah. Yeah, you know, you know, you saw what they awoke in the shadows. You think Rogan would have me on to talk about that theory? I absolutely believe. If you came on and said, like, Joe, I want to talk about, it's going to be, you know, critical of Israel,

but there's a Balrog involved. They're digging to the center of the earth. That's right. Go back to the shadows. Yeah, Gandalf did try to set up a Balrog checkpoint, you know. That's right. You shall not pass. Yeah.

Damn, dude. Well, Jasper, this has been a fascinating episode. Actually, Balrog sounds very much like. Some Israeli IDF spokesman. It's the most Hebrew-coded Tolkien name. Jasper, Nathaniel, thank you so much for coming on Bad Asbarra and talking with us. Where can people find your work? Infinite Jazz.

It's, it's, I-N-F-I-N-I-T-E, just J-A-Z, just one Z. Don't put in two Zs or you'll get sort of a finger-snap and Z-B-Z-B-Z-A-Z-Z. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Music blog. Infinite jazz. Substack.com. And then on Instagram, just hashtag, or no, not hashtag. I'm like a boomer here.

At Infinite underscore Jazz. And then on Twitter, it's the same thing but two underscores. So at Infinite Double underscore JAS. And we're going to have all of those in the episode description. So please follow Jasper. Subscribe to his substack. It's great. it's great reporting uh yeah it's free and it's wonderful reporting and uh also links to the

articles discussed on thank you guys thank you for coming on yeah and congrats again on 100 and thank you for making me your centennial guest that's right that's exactly right yes yes yes and thank you to everyone out there for dealing with uh you know 100 episodes of slop um i just for no particular reason. I just want to play this awesome song to celebrate the fact that we're still around. We're still here.

All right. That was to anyone who doesn't want us to succeed. Die by fire. And thank you to everyone out there. The haters become waiters at the table of our success. That's right. They do. Patreon.com slash badhasbara.

Email us. Badhasbara at gmail.com. All right, everyone. Thanks again so much for listening. And until next time, from the river to the sea. Janie's got a gun, a trowel, a shovel, one of those shaking screens, a kipa, and a hand scribbled.

Diploma in Archaeology. Beautiful. Jumping Jacks was us. Push-ups was us. Godmaga us. All karate us. Taking Molly us. Michael Jackson us.

Yamaha Keyboards. Us. Georgia binks on us. Andor was us. Keith Ledger Joker us. Endless bread success. Happy meals was us. McDonald's was us.

Being happy us. Bequam yoga us. Eating food, us, breathing air, us, drinking water, us. We invented all that shit.