Bad Hasbara - The World's Most Moral Podcast - Bad Hasbara 17: Little Boteach, with Daniel Maté

Episode Date: March 9, 2024

This week Matt and sometimes co-host Daniel Maté talk about Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, RFK Jr being a coward, and Daniel breaks out into a Billy Joel song. Also, a voicemail from listener Amichai Axelrod.  Sign up for Daniel and Hadar Cohen's Jewish Healing Circle on zoom.   Visit Daniel's website and check out his mental chiropractic service.Buy tickets to see Matt Lieb and Francesca Fiorentini headline the Punch Line in Sacramento on Sunday, March 17th at 7pm. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/bad-hasbara/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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All of garden us White foster hubs Zabra Hamas Asbaras Us Hello and welcome to Bad Hasbara, the world's most moral podcast. I am your most moral host, Matt Lieb. Hey, everyone.

Thank you for joining us. Apologies up top for the fact that this week I didn't have an episode out until just right now, the one you're listening to. It's been a crazy, busy week. and uh you know so i got listen i got a lot of jobs i got too many too many jobs and none of them pay enough um so that's why i need your guys help to uh you know make me quit all my jobs uh but until then uh sometimes the episodes are just going to be once a week which i think is a normal schedule um give us five stars and review on all the apps and stuff Spotify whatnot like subscribe all that

all that shit you know uh do all the things you would do for any other channel um whatever whatever those hosts say um do what they say but with my channel i'm too embarrassed to say it ring hit the bell button for notification it's just what a life um also once again uh sacramental punchline sunday march 17th 7 p.m please buy tickets come out there's still a few left it's going to be a really great show and finally join the subreddit we have a subreddit

R slash bad Hezbarra it's run by J.P. Ben he does a great job moderating making sure that it's not flooded with a bunch of Hezbaris who do like to flood you know they like to go into Reddit accounts or Reddit communities

and just be like you know but what about and then something irrelevant to genocide happening yeah so join that and also shout out to Adam Levin our producer we now have a producer we don't have quite enough money to pay a producer but I it's an investment into the future he's a great guy he is helping me out you know taking some of the the load from my shoulders speaking of loads on shoulders someone today is going to be taking the load off of my

shoulders a little bit. It's my sometimes co-host and my number one best most moral friend Daniel Matte is here. There's a load on my shoulder? There's a load. Dude, gross. I like this shirt. Well, it washes out, you know, I can, I'll get you some tied to go. Jesus Christ. What's up, man? Am I the second most moral host? Yeah, you're the second you're the you're the sometimes most moral host not that you're sometimes moral you're always moral um but you're uh sometimes host you know right right right right exactly yeah i'm good how are you oh you know i'm all right just like yeah good good's an overstatement for me i'm it it really i am i am that i am you exist and what more can you ask of the world than to live

um seems like one of those things that we can all agree is something that's good people living shouldn't be too much to ask and yet and yet and yet um well i'm very i'm very glad that you're joining me today uh this is uh like i said this was a crazy busy week for me and so i wasn't able to um you know book a guest but here's the thing daniel you're you're you're one of my oh geez you're one of my original guest turned best friend of the pod and so to me it's like every time I see you it's like a guest you know what I mean I mean I am a guest slash host that's right I I yeah you're both and you're always hosting like like it's always in it's in you know it's in my screen yard yeah exactly it's it's my account you're the one

who decides to to bring me or put me back off state it's backstage right that's right you could you could make me disappear right now I don't have that's right i can do all sorts of shit with this i can put all sorts of i could put videos up where your face is i've got i got the edit you put filters on me i go with filters on you right now oh man i would do the one where your face is like you know that one that's a great one i love that but yeah it's uh you know uh it's it's it's great having you uh be here with me today to talk about just some of the uh you know insane stuff going on And today our main topic is about a holy man, a man who is devoted to God and to none others puts no others above God other than himself.

We're talking about the rabbi, Shmuli, Bodhiach. Ah, or as Norman Finkelstein calls him, schmucky Botox. Does he? I've not heard that. That is beautiful. Schmucky Botox. I've been calling him Bo-Teach, because that's how it's spelled. And little Bo-Teach loves to preach. He has, he is someone who's been around for a while. If you are in any way familiar with the world of, like, you know, pro-Israel talking points and his barists, you are familiar with him. He is, what I would say he was like the raging rabbi that's how I would put it he's yeah also if you frequent New York City's finest ice skating establishments you're very likely to have

him tap tap you on the shoulder and be like hey film me film me react to me so I can so I can you know film me yelling at you film me film me yelling at you and you getting justifiably upset at me so that I can announce that the Holocaust has started Hey, could you do me a favor and just say free Palestine to me real quick? Okay, free Palestine. You son of a bitch! Pulls out of phone. Yeah, this guy, you know, as Daniel is saying, he has popped up a lot since October 7th, which naturally, I mean, a lot of the kind of, he's a He's a Hezbarist.

That's, of course, one of the things he's going to do. He's going to pop up. But, yeah, the most recent thing that he's been doing other than. tons of media hits in which he is, you know, trying to debate people and yell at people. He's been going on social media and uploading videos of him on ice skating and yelling at Arabs. And I have a few of those videos here. I'm the ice skating race. And instead of saying sorry, he says free Palestine.

How dare you? How dare you? What's your name? Big Shot. What's your name? Big Daddy. What's your name? Big Shot.

People like you are cowards, you hit me on the ice, you don't say sorry, and you say free Palestine. Say, what's your name? Don't be everywhere. We're making you face. Hold on. I want to remix that when he goes, what's your name? Big shot. I want to have Billy Joel start.

Bum, ba-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-bom. Bump-pah-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Well, you went up. you went uptown riding in your yarmaca with the that's beautiful you know listen i only know a few billy joel songs no no no you had to be a big shot didn't you but i can turn any song into uptown girl it's a secret power that i have name a song name a song i have to know the song first just name one watch um all the single ladies all the single ladies all the single ladies all the single ladies all the Ladies, all the single ladies, all the single ladies with an uptown girl, she's been living

in her uptown worse. See, I can do it with anything, dog. What a pivot. Yeah, well, listen. Master of Puppets by Metallica. Okay, Master of Puppets. Uh, let's see. I was a part of the pulling the strings. Oh, obey your master, master, master of puppets and pulling the strings. This is hard. I'm going to drop in her uptown girl. She'll be living in her uptown world. Okay. I love the people who come to this podcast because they're just like traumatized by the last four months. They're like finally someone who's like deconstructing Israel's lives.

And then I'm up here just sing an uptown girl. Hey, hey, Palestinians. You're welcome. Yeah, yes. You know what? you really we we deserve a medal for this because someone someone's got to sing uptown girl during the apocalypse um is that about christie brinkley what about christie brinkley that was about her right because he was married to her oh i did not know that yeah that song is about her

i was trying to see if is she one of the de-list celebrities who's been making zionist videos no i think that's brook shields oh god we're gonna have to dig into that but uh this to continue with more Rabbi Shmuli that is that's just one of the videos

that he's put he's done this hold on he's done hold on he's done this a few times and I did in Times Square

I think yeah he's always ice skating in Times Square this is the one near the big near 30 Rock with the big

tree right isn't that yeah Rockefeller yeah right so I'm sorry but is there

could you pick a more like central tourist location to ice skate than it just seems a little I don't know it's strange to me that he would choose that it's like you know

it's going to Sabaro pizza to have your favorite slice here's more attention on the ice on the ice really that's the long of you can dingo harassing me on the ice and Merry Christmas

Happy Hanukkah You came over to me and said three Palestine on the ice What's your name? You don't even know my name? Why? What are you afraid of? This is going to be everywhere anyway.

Good. You came over to me. Let people ice skate, you fucking psycho. He's standing there with a sign being like scream free Palestine at me. Yes, straight up, straight up. So that's the Wormon rink at Central Park, I think. It's called the Woman Rink? Wormon.

Have you run into Rabbi Shmoli Boutich at any. point in your it's been about 12 years since i was there for a friend's birthday party so if i did i just thought he was one another little toddler among many like well that toddler is wrinkly this guy is that toddler hasn't shaved in a few days no certainly not um yeah so if you don't know who he is this guy has like a long interesting weird history. What do you know, Daniel, about Rabbi Shmoli? What have you heard? I know I know next to nothing. Something in me, like my gut tells me he was part of the Jewish Defense League at some point, but I can't, but I don't know if that's true. What do you know about him? Well, a lot more now,

because I was doing a little bit of research on him. All I knew previously about him was, was that he was this guy who was like he's America's celebrity rabbi. I would say he's probably one of the most famous like rabbis in America because we don't have too many like famous rabbis, I don't think. Correct. Usually, you know, being a rabbi and celebrity, it's not like, you know, being a priest is, or a pastor rather, in America where it's like you have these evangelical pastors, they have TV shows. They've, you know, they have millions and millions of like audience who are just like pouring money into them. You may not even, you just know their name and you have no idea how rich they are. They fly private jets and stuff. In America, we don't have that

with rabbis. So we have one. We have one celebrity rabbi. And that's basically all I knew of him. If you are a regular everyday American, you might know him as the former host of TLC's Shalom in the Home, which ran for about two seasons. Schmuck in the truck. Yeah, he's, listen, he's someone who enjoys the limelight, I would say. He's someone who has made it his mission. to be more like the haim light very good he would love your puns he's right he's furiously writing them all down yeah um and uh he is someone who has been uh he's he's done many things he has multiple different identities um i mean he's always rabbi shmoli but is it like is he a rabbi

is he a tv show host is he an agent of the israeli government uh spiritual advisor to politicians like RFK Jr. That's right. RFK Jr. was getting a lot of goodwill among like anti-imperialist leftists for this on this campaign because he was, you know, he was signaling that he was against you at profligate U.S. spending in Ukraine, things like that. Mm-hmm.

And then he starts paling around with Rabbi Shmuli. Yes. And just showing that he has no principles. None at all. Whatsoever. Like on the things that make him potentially. attractive. He has absolutely no consistent principles. Yes, yes. Because, and it's so weird. He was acting like a, like someone was pointing a gun at him or something and forcing him to say these

things, but it seemed absolutely sincere. And he was doing events with Schmuli. Yes. And, and, and, you know, that's a thing, you know, it's a, a pivot, but it's an important pivot because I think it's actually pretty fascinating. Watching the rise of RFK, junior kind of happening early on in this like presidential campaign and watching him kind of like yeah kind of you know for sure the like the populist uh you know the populist right was you know liking him because he's he's a big anti-vaxxer um and there was portions of the populace left that was interested in him because he was saying all of the right words regarding they were rfk curious Yeah, RFK Curious, which you know.

He was saying things that no other Democrat was willing to say. And a Democrat who's willing to go against democratic orthodoxy is a rare and interesting species in any case, no matter what, no matter what, you know, because it's such a party of conformity at this point and falling in line. Yes. And then. Yeah. And then he starts being asked about his, you know, what his thoughts are.

on Israel. And that is when, like, for me, I've never been someone who has used Palestine as a litmus test, but mostly because I don't give Americans enough credit to be educated on the topic. And so for some people, I'm like, you, it's like, you have to understand in America, there's a default Zionist position. And so for me, I didn't, I never felt comfortable using it as a litmus test because I was like, I don't know, you know, some people, it's like they weigh their, you know, they go, do I want APAC going after me? Like if they're a politician, do I want APEC going after me or do I want the gun law, I'll be going after me? I can't have both. And so in the past, I've always been like, I don't know, now it is the most clear litmus test

that it could be. If you are truly an anti-imperialist politician, if you are truly someone who consider yourself a leftist to go and defend Israel at this moment is just unforgivable and it's completely mask off. It says to me that you are, you stand by none of the principles that you proclaim to. You know what I mean? Yeah. And there's a special circle of hell for the people who are not exactly running and defending Israel, but they're equivocating and they're, you know, they're paying lip service to standing in solidarity with their colleagues, Rashida Talib and Ilan Omar. Yes.

But when confronted about words like genocide, I mean, on the one hand, it's like Bernie Sanders, at this point, I'm sort of, I've just got a nothing reaction to. Saying. Because he's saying a lot of the right words, but I just don't, it just, it's like a lover who's let you down too many times and now is, is saying soothing things. AOC, I have a less than negative reaction to because of the slickness of her and just the, I just read cowardice on her, like she's, you know, and then she gets, she gets so victimized when people, did you see that clip of people confronting her and saying, just call it a genocide? And she's like, this is not okay, okay? I said it. And you're going to take this out of context and just playing the, the, the, the victim and not getting where her constituents are coming from when she was the motherfucking we have to bring the ruckus to the democratic party person i just i you know yeah it's

you know it's hard with um aOC because she's someone who has um you know like bernie sanders in the past done things that i have been like you know hats off to her she's i don't want to say succumb to pressure but you know she was going to do some sort of event at one point for like praising Itzhak Rabin and she was told by various like leftist progressive

like Jewish groups and pro-Palestinian solidarity groups and whatnot don't do this because She responded to pressure yeah yeah and she responded to pressure and was like oh okay I'm not going to do it and I was like you know what actually I kind of hats off to that because I think that

you know it's number one it shows a willingness to listen and understand and number two i just think that we just don't see i just want more politicians to succumb to leftist pressure we just don't have that and so i was like well thank you for for doing that um the only problem is she won't do it when it means crossing the party yeah see that's the party leadership she's playing the game now more so than you know uh before and it's one of those things where people who some people pray her pragmatism for playing the game. I personally am not someone who, like, I'm not a wonk. If you're someone who's like, well, I understand the inside of, you know, Congress and

you've got to play a game in order to do this and that. To me, I'm like, okay, but isn't there a limit to, there's a limit, right? When a genocide is happening, there's a limit to, like, cowering and, you know, being like... And accommodating, yeah. Accommodating, yeah. By the way, we need to make a film called Willie Wonk and the amazing chocolate think tank. I love it.

I love it. We can get Timothy Chalamey on board, although another list came out. People put out these, like, TikTok will occasionally just be like, here's who's a Zionist who you didn't know, and someone put Timothy Shalamee on them. I'm like, at this point, I think people are just, you know, they're like looking through people's likes and stuff. And they'll, you know, I think we'd want someone with a little bit more intellectual or at least cerebral heft to play the, Norman Ficklestain, Willie Wonk.

Well, Mark Ruffalo or, uh, there's a good anti-Zionist or a good, you know, anti-genocide. Yeah, at the very least, you don't even have to be an anti-Zionist at this point. I don't care. Just be moral. I know. You don't have to be as moral as the world's most moral podcast. No, of course not. No one could dare, you know, even try to reach these heights of morality. But just, you know, recognize genocide when you see it. That's right. That's, that seems like not much to ask. But yeah, RFK went on, again, this is a tangent, but I wanted to play a little bit of this. RFK Jr. went on breaking points, which is Crystal Ball's podcast. podcast and I have a little bit of that just because I just thought it was if while you're playing that I disappear from the frame and go to the bathroom while I have my headphones on will will that negatively affect the podcast or not even a little bit bro I just I do want to be able to hear you taking a shit though I'm going to I'm going to mute and I'm not going to specify exactly what's happening don't say the number all right here we go you know at what point? Do you say, okay, it's enough? Because the other piece of this, even if you say, and I know you're not saying this, I'm not putting, but even if you say, I don't care about the

Palestinian lives, they got to do what they got to do, it's the cost of war, what are you going to do? There's also a lot of evidence that what they're actually doing is fomenting increasing support for Hamas. Because if you think about it, you know, if you're a kid and your parents get blown up, what kind of politics do you think you're going to have when you grow up? Isn't that going to be tremendously radicalizing and incredibly compromising to the security of Israelis alike? You get rid of Hamas if you're Israel. Well, I'm not running for president of the United States, number one. But number two, I think we have a model for this, in a sense, from the way we went in and approached bin Laden.

I'm sorry. Did you hear all that? Yeah, I wasn't going to take a shit, but then I heard his voice. It sounds like he's always taking a shit. It sounds like a laxative. It just, it's like a, oh, God. I know he has some sort of. He's gargling laxatives.

I know. I know he has some sort of thing, but at this point, I'm sorry. Some kind of syphilitic after effect or something. Yeah, if you're defending genocide, I'm going to make fun of basically whatever I can on your person or in your person. Yeah, Crystal did a good job in this injury. She did fantastic. And, you know, it's like this response to what she just said of just... He's tremendously radicalizing and incredibly compromising to the security of Israelis alike.

how would you get rid of Hamas? This is the most disingenuous fucking question that people ask in order to pivot away from actually showing any kind of leadership ability. And this is someone who's running for president. This is someone who's like, I want to be the president and is going to ask a television host, well, how would you get rid of Hamas?

The implication being the only way to get rid of Hamas is for Israel to continue doing what it's doing. Not only that. No, no, no. There's a much more fundamental one. Mm-hmm. And here I have to credit my brother for putting this one in my head. Mm-hmm.

The implication being Israel has any right whatsoever to dictate to the Palestinians who their leadership is, the implication being that somehow Hamas' actions over the years or even if you start on October 6th, make it such that they are ineligible to be in power, and yet but that somehow the israeli government still has legitimacy the implication being that it's any of anyone's fucking business which prison gang rises up inside of the ghetto concentration right open air prison that you're deliberately deliberately created yes to uh rule those people the implication being that democracy is great except when palestinians are voting yeah fuck off yeah yeah at 100%. 100%. And this idea of Hamas as being, you know, sort of like the existence of Hamas

being Israel's Trump card of like, you know, we are therefore allowed to do whatever the hell we want because this is the elected leadership of, you know, of Gaza. I mean, first of all, it's like, you know, we probably debunk this on several different podcasts. several different times but it's it's just uh so absolutely uh historic the amount of like propaganda around like how Hamas came to power and um how the it you know relates to the 17 year siege of Gaza and how you know oh Hamas came to power you know they won this election and they started killing everybody as if the United States and Israel did not try to do a coup after the election of Hamas and do you know what is crazy we have done we have taken sonograms

how you say um ultrasound of pregnant Palestinian women and Palestinian fetuses are taught from conception to pull the lever for Hamas they vote in utero for for for the Hamas so they come out of you i don't know the word for that part of the body but they come out of that already having cast their votes as as democratic citizens for terror they put the ballot right next to the pregnant woman's belly and the baby it kick and the punch whole right where it says hamas yes and that is that is that is that is a gazan version of cesarean section the baby kicks its own way out to vote for humas humas um this might be yeah like this might be the most absurd dark joke it was

it's only it's only going to get worse um exactly but yeah r fk we're not sitting the rules listen this this you know i could play this whole thing but at the end of the day, what happens in that interview is RFK Jr. refuses to engage in the subject and anything beyond standard, Hasbara talking points about Israel's right to defend itself and, you know, not believing the death toll, not believing, you know, any numbers that don't come straight from the IDF, you know, and it's just... He doesn't believe in Arabic. He doesn't believe in Arabic numerals. Yeah, right, exactly. Arabic numerals, dude. That shit is straight up Islamist, you know?

Have you ever seen anyone do this with his chest more? He just, he, he, he's always like, yeah. This is no wonder he talks like this because he's stopped stretching a little bit. His vocal cords are strained. Yeah, he's caused, he's stuck in a stretch. But it brings up a point that I think is important because I often criticize liberals for being too, obsessed with people using the right words. You know, it's like you can trick a liberal very easily by saying things like, you know, Israel is gay friendly and is, you know, you can, you can butter them up by giving them all of their favorite political tasty treats. And, and it's just

led to things like John Fetterman. Like, you know, he said all the right things up in the campaign. And And then he becomes, you know, the senator, and he has gone full psycho. But I will say that also... Where would you rather be a trans person in a Tel Aviv penthouse eating a steak dinner with Sauvignon Blanc? Or under the rubble in Gaza? Yeah. It's a very good point. It's a very good point.

I guess the first one, because the second one, sounds like death. Who made the rubble? Anyways. Did you see that onion headline? US starts US to drop rubble on Gaza to air drop rubble you know humanitarian rubble it's very good there was someone sent me another one that the onion did back in like 2000 uh like 2006 or something and it was in response to one of the many um high-ranking hamas officials uh who have been killed that at least as reported by the Israeli government and it said something like

86th second in command of al-Qaeda has been murdered and it's yeah you know because everyone that they kill they just say is the second in command but yeah no I do think that the left can suffer from this too if you say some of the right things some of the right like populist left stuff you you get more credit than it's worth because you go like, you know, if RFK Jr. is out there talking about, you know, ending a funding to Ukraine and whatnot, you know, as a leftist, or at least as a portion of the left that wants to do that, they look at that and they go like, oh, that's great because he's taking, you know, a stance against like the Democratic Party's like norms and whatnot and that's a brave thing to do but I look at that and I go like well you if you also

have you know the right wing also supporting that is it how like how brave is it it's crossing party lines which is brave in and of itself but it's also like I don't know to me I look at this situation and I go like you've got bipartisan consensus in government both parties like yes Israel do what you got to do. If you are not saying what you need to do is a ceasefire, what you need to do is to end this occupation, what you need to do is give Palestinians their own state or civil rights or, you know, whatever, a single secular state, then you are a coward and no one on the left should be propping you up at all. I really don't care about, you know, I guess I'm more of a single issue guy.

But if that issue is genocide, I don't know. I feel like it's justified. Well, in a moment like this, it, it's the issue. It's the issue because it affects everything else. It's of such historic proportions. It's also such a referendum on how you feel about democracy, given that most Americans very much want to ceasefire, given that and bless the souls of these people. protesters, Democratic politicians right now can't get a word out in public.

Christian Gillibrand the other day here in New York, Adam Schiff in L.A. the other day. That's right. And it's about time that motherfucker gets interrupted. Yes. And, you know, and even with all of that, with AOC being hounded, with Bernie being hounded, you know, to not respond. Yeah. You know, because none of these people are ideologically committed to Israel. The, the Republicans are. Joe Biden is, Adam Schiff is, Pelosi is. But the rest is just pure cowardice and it's contempt for your own constituents. And this is why, you know, the election of someone like George Galloway in England is so, it's so bracing because we don't have anyone like that here. Yeah. Who's actually willing to go on national news and be interviewed by

this sniveling little weasel of a journalist who says, but what? You don't respect the Prime minister is i don't respect the prime minister i despise the prime minister i despise him i've just been elected with a thumping majority oh you're doing a good scottish accent i i think i've been i've been impersonating george for 20 years i love you know rule no good accents on this podcast you got to shrek that up you got to make it real weird uh no but that was great but yeah no it's like when you see that and i know you know some people were tweeting at me like, oh, no, he's bad for X, Y, Z reason. And listen, I don't, I don't pay attention to fucking UK politics. So I'm sure there's a million reasons why he's bad. But when I see a politician, any politician in the West, quote unquote, in, you know, the Anglosphere, openly and passionately defending the human rights of Palestinians, I'm like, I'm sorry, but that is, that's badass to me and brave and also fuck any mainstream political

organization in either England or America or any news organization that makes it their mission to marginalize that person for that belief. Or demonize them. Or demonize them. Did you ever hear Ron Paul's comments about Gaza like 10 years ago? Oh, no. Ron Paul is That's right, Ron Paul, no, no, no.

What did he get to say? It was very impressive. He was talking about how basically we, and he says we, because we're paying for it, construct this concentration camp, and they fire these piddling little rockets that scare Israelis but do very little damage. And then we just bombard them every few years,

and it's completely unacceptable and how, of course, you're going to racket, everything Crystal Ball just said, just very um and it's not even said in a kind of uh indifferently isolationist way it's very humanitarian it's very it's very human you know yeah well he was a libertarian uh like he's libertarian ideologue and i feel like there's which you end up respecting about half of their politics when they're a libertarian because they will and and you respect the fact that they have convictions that they're willing to go to bat for yes even though

Some of those convictions, especially an American libertarian is a conservative, some of those are just free market capitalism will control everything, which of course is bullshit and I don't agree with. But at the same time, they also will be ideologically committed to the idea that no drug should be illegal or that, you know, a fundamentally isolationist foreign policy. And to me, I'm like, you know, yeah, there's parts of that that appeal to me. And then, of course, you know, the rest, not so much. But fucking I do respect anyone who has the balls to say that. And I'm sorry, but like if at this point, Palestine is a litmus test. If you are not someone, if you are someone who's running for office and you are not willing to say, with your whole chest

this is genocide ceasefire now even if it's just ceasefire now at this point I mean listen I'm taking what I can get if you're not willing to say that then to me it's like

okay so you are you you stand for nothing and you're a coward but before we continue I have been reminded by my my producer

he's not here but in my head I started thinking about him randomly and what he would say right now and he would say Matt remember you have to say I have an imaginary producer too Matt oh you do what's his name he actually hasn't told me he just he's just constantly telling me that my mic levels are wrong and that's just the voice in your head telling you you're not good enough yeah exactly come to think of it that's not what his producer is supposed to do Yeah. Hey, you're fired. Oh, no, he's telling me he can't fire. You can't fire me. I quit. Um, no, but he would remind me that I have to say it's time to go to commercial because on the podcast, the audio version, we do go to commercial. So guys, stick around. We're going to commercial, but we'll be right back. Okay, we're back. Oh, yeah. I hope our sponsor, I hope that sponsor was not, you know, a war criminal corporation. Hey, listen. If, if.

a war criminal corporation, if Raytheon, if you want to reach out to me and you want me to do a live read for some of your wonderful guns and bombs, reach out, badass bar at gmail.com. Just kidding. But we were talking a little bit

about Rabbi Shmuli. And I wanted to read to you something that he wrote recently for the Jewish Journal. So he wrote something? Yeah, oh, he's a writer. He is a, what you would call a prolific writer. This is someone who has written over, I believe, 30 books. A lot of them are about fucking. Like, he is the, he's the most fucky rabbi in America. Like, he is a rabbi who has, he's made his niche, or one of his many niches, but he's made his most popular niche was, right? writing books about sex and marriage, like Shalom in the home, the TLC show, was him doing

essentially marriage counseling. And his whole thing is like, you know, you need to have sex with your wife like you're cheating on her. You need to bone more. I'm getting Ferris Bueller vibes, you know. I came along to restore your pluck because I'm the rabbi who likes to. Yeah. Yeah.

No. rabbi who likes to fuck and um he he likes it when other people fuck at least right right no no he himself he's you know he's who he's the rabbi who would like to fuck yeah he was a rabbi who desperately wants to fuck um but yeah he's written books like uh kosher sex a recipe for passion and intimacy uh you know in which he tells just make sure you take the bay leaves out before serving uh yes uh he is What else is he written? Let's see, kosher sex. Coture adultery, seduce and sin with your spouse.

I mean, this guy is just, he's in Americans' bedrooms trying to get them to fuck good, which, you know, hey, more power to you. But he is also a big old has barist. He has also, you know, gone on to debate Norman Finkelstein. Did you watch the debate with Norman Finkelstein? I saw a few clips. I did really enjoy his pregame trash talk on, you know. I, Rabbi Shmuli Botox, solemnly swear that I shall digitally disembowel and eviscerate him.

That's right. As a terrorist. I just completed my debate on Pierce Morgan uncensored against America's foremost Jewish anti-Semite, Professor Norma Finkelstein. Oh, this is him after the fact. he he actually wrote beforehand exactly what you were saying that he would digitally decapitate um and disembowel yeah digitally decapitate and disembowl of course digitally makes it sound like he's going to do it with his fingers with his fingers yeah i you know he's he's a real wacko um but uh he he that debate um he i mean i've if that is his debate style is just yelling um i

I would like to see him in more debates, to be honest. Right, so let's watch this postgame. Yeah, let's watch a little bit of his post game. This is him celebrating his win. Hi, everybody. I just completed my debate on Pierce Morgan uncensored against America's foremost Jewish anti-Semite. Professor Norma Finkelstein. Professor, I use the word loosely.

He's not tenured anywhere. I promised you I would digitally decapitate, digitally disembowel, and digitally destroy. him and god willing you'll decide whether i kept my promise or not why do i speak that way and people say we shouldn't speak that way it's to draw a line between our opponents and us we don't decapitate people we don't shoot them in the vagina oh we don't cut their breasts off we don't behead their children we choose our moral we just fantasize about it yeah yeah we just get off on the on on on on wishing we were we were yes yes no we we just uh dm you in the middle of the middle of of the night saying that Hamas would do that to you.

That's right. That's our favorite thing to do. Hey, hey, you up? I'm touching myself thinking about you getting raped by Hamas. They really love it. He looks like he's sucking on a ketamine lozins or something in that video. I mean, it's the only thing that keeps him going. The dude is perpetually sweaty.

He's the most slimy-looking man, like literally he's covered in slime. But in his debate, which I think it's important to just see a little bit of it because the one thing I love about Norman Finkelstein is his debate style, at least as of late, has been to draw a, I would say, a contrast between him and his opponent by being calm, collected and cool. Yeah, he's unflapable. Yeah, whereas that is not so much the case with Rabbi Ashmoly. How do you read where we are with this war? There are many ways to read it. You can read it politically. You can read it militarily.

You can read it strategically or you can read it from a point of view of human rights and international law. Now, when it comes to the very last consideration, I think it's very clear how we should read it, namely the International Court of Justice. has said that Israel is under two obligations. Obligation number one is to honor the laws of war in what it's doing in Gaza. And obligation number two, Israel has to provide humanitarian aid and assistance to the people of Gaza. And it's not honoring its obligations

as they were spelled out by the International Court of Justice. Okay. Rabbi Shmuli, you tweeted this morning, when we booked you for this debate. You called Norman Finkelstein an anti-Semite. You said, you have my word that, God-willing, I will digitally decapitate, digitally disembow, and digitally destroy him.

Do you think that was the right kind of rhetoric before you try and debate such a serious matter? First of all, thank you for having me back, Pierce. It's nice to see you. And Norm, I hope you don't mind if I call you, Norm, you can please call me Shmuli. Look at his face. Norm's face is like, fuck off.

The realistic idiom that Jews or news is true, because Israel's this big, it gets this much attention, then how much more so, Jewish anti-Semites get the brightest headlights? Okay, I'm sorry, Jews is news? Is he just making up a thing? Has that ever been the case, Jews being news? If it bleeds, it leads. Jews are news. If it kvetches, it reches.

It sketches, it wretches, yeah. Yeah. If it's Jews, it's, if it's Jews, it. It's news. If it's blues, it's clues. Norman Finkelstein is the foremost Jewish anti-Semite on planet Earth. He actually attacked his own parents whose only crime was to be Jewish. Their entire family was annihilated in Warsaw. They're not victims.

They hated Germans and wanted them dead. He didn't think to himself, maybe my parents wanted the Germans to suffer to stop the war, to break the will of the German people to stop murdering. That's exactly what Norman said his parents wanted. Not only that, but he said that they hated Germans for the rest of their lives, and he will never fault them for it. Yeah. Yeah. What a puk.

Yeah, this is Rabbi Shmoli. Once again, if you invoke the Holocaust or Holocaust survivors in favor of the Israeli government's, you know, wars against Arabs, then exploit away. Exploid away. Have fun with it. 1,000 Jews per day. 400 women shot in the genitals. breast cut off as terrorists played with their bloody breasts like a football. Glory, hallelujah. Women shot in their genitals, Norm, glory. You should be a televangelist. Glory, hallelujah.

Children burned to death and beheaded. Glory, hallelujah. Come on, come on. You're a fear of person, Pierce. The thing is that he needs a psychiatrist. It's a tough room. Professor Wolfgang. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Professor Woolgayne. Norman Finkelstein gave a, I thought a pretty measured argument and response to my first question. You've gone ad hominem immediately and attacked the man, not the issue and not the question. That's exactly what he does. He likes to, he's not a debater. I mean, listen, he gained a lot of popularity in England, Schmuli did,

as someone who would go and debate Palestinians and anyone who was, you know, talking bad about Israel. And British Jews are insane. Yeah, well, I mean, talk about, like, if you want to, it's one of the reasons why all of the, like, PR psychos you see all have British accents. You're just like, Jesus Christ. Yeah, well, there's an Oxbridge, you know, secret society for training you to do that for a living, like A Loan Levy.

You know, Pierce, I just have to say, Pierce Morgan has been not even close to remotely good on this overall and he's given a lot of air time to Nazi creeps like Douglas Murray and he just for way too long has been well he just is unable to break out of the shackles of the basic premises of Hasbara but I'll say this he does have a certain degree of decorum and standards on his own show and he showed Norm a lot of respect in his previous interviews and in this one. He can clearly see a huckster when he sees one. And he had my father on his show, Garbo Matte. And I think my dad's in England right now. He might be doing the show again. I can't promise that, but I heard something.

He didn't interrupt him at all. Yeah. He's actually, you know, it takes something to reach Pierce's moral center. Did you see Norman's first interview with him? What he's? appealed to in Pierce to get him to no and I took a walk with Norm on Coney Island a few months ago in the cold on a cold cold December day he said come on out to Coney Island I'll take you on my five mile Gaza width walk he does the width he does the five mile Coney Island walk on the beach every single day which is the width of Gaza and he calls it Norman Finkelstein Gaza width walk and he was telling me that and I'd seen it but he I said were you sincere about this. He went on Pierce's show and he said, Pierce, I want to tell you something. I just

want to acknowledge you for something. I've respected you for years because when you were a judge on what was it, the voice or Britain's Got Talent or something, when Susan Boyle was being mocked for her looks or something like that, I could see the look of anguish on your face and I could see you how touched you were and you actually stood up for her. And he said, that moved me deeply. And ever since then i've known that you're a good person and i asked norm about that i'm like were you just blowing smoke up his ass norm said absolutely not that stuck with me for a long time he had nothing to gain by standing up for that poor woman yeah and he did yeah no i mean listen it just if if he could apply the same level of empathy to you know uh Palestinians that that would be great

at the same time, he, credit where credit is due, he has been the guy that I've seen, at least on British television, letting people speak, letting people who are advocating for Palestinian lives or advocating for a ceasefire, letting Palestinians make their case, quote, or letting, you know, anti-Zionist Jews speak in complete sentences. Yeah, and sometimes he'll allow a trickle of his own sympathy to, Because on some level, he knows it doesn't compute, right? He knows he thinks Israel has the right to defend itself. He knows he thinks Hamas needs to be destroyed.

He knows he thinks the Jews deserve a state of their own and all this stuff. And at the same time, he looks at the reality. He can't square that with 30,000 Palestinians being killed, with starvation. And he just kind of will speak that contradiction. he doesn't take the next obvious leap which is to give up the former illusions yeah you know but at least he allows his conscience like dana as opposed to someone like dana bash on american tv on cnn who the other day was talking to pre milajapal and she's like 30 000 palestinians have been murdered and are starving and then bash like very just straight faces yeah well at least

you know but you have to admit israeli's soldiers aren't aren't in gaza raping people yeah yeah at least they're just killing people at least they're just murdering plus no they don't murder people in the they don't rape people in the field they rape them in jail yeah right yeah right constant reports uh regarding the sexual never get reported yeah yeah the reports the reports exist they just don't get talked about so this is a woman who absolutely in the face of an opportunity to feel something human yeah about other human beings her job requires that she not see them as human beings and the iron wall comes down whereas for Pierce there's still an opening it's a it's a it's a it's a gate but it's grated yeah so he

he's like at the bar is clutching he can see through we can still see his face he's he's dark bader he's just you know he's looking at the emperor you know doing electricity on his son and he's like uh yeah exactly but it's as if that scene lasts for like like 30 years 2 hours 30 years on the next episode of Star Wars

Darth Vader is still like and the electrical flashes are lighting up his mat who oops I don't know

I still don't know I still I love just drinking coffee at one point is Luke still being electrocuted this is a kids

in the hall sketch really just one more moment from that that debate just because it was so good just this is one of my favorite moments here it is well i'm not sure what was the purpose to inviting either me or mr schmuley to this program because obviously we are in two entirely different wavelengths mr schmooley is in the business which is not surprising of character assassination he's in the car he's in the business of libel look how mad surely is job because where he have to confront the facts he would be in a very difficult situation so let me make one clarification none of my remarks bear on my

personal opinions i simply am repeating what the documentary records shows. Now, according to Mr. Schmulley, I am a liar because, according to Mr. Schmuli, the International Court of Justice explicitly concluded that Israel was not committing a genocide. Now, I would say that Mr. Schmuli is suffering from what I would call a Judeo dementia, because there is no possible possibility. Come on, Schmoot. You got to get props for that one, man. Any rational human being could have read the opinion or the ruling rendered by the International Court of Justice after the South Africa application and after the oral proceedings. There is no possibility on earth that any rational person can conclude that the international court of justice ruled that

israel was not committing a genocide so and then he's about to say now we have two difficulties number one he always does this is moly is always to think his purpose to being on the program is to personally attack me the latin term ad hominem attacks number two smooly is so impatient seems incapable of processing very basic facts if mr schmooley believes that the international court of justice ruled explicitly that israel was not committing genocide if that's what he truly believes then i would say he's suffering from some form of Judeo dementia. Of some form. I mean, that's fucking balsy to say Judeo dementia. Also, you know what it is about Norm? What? He sets the pace. Yes. Yes. He slows things down. Yes. Yes. To the place where everyone can follow exactly

methodically what he is saying and where it's coming from. And he's very right. When he veers into personal opinion. He makes it very clear he's veering into personal opinion and he can get outrageous and and and and very scabrous, you know, and cutting. Yeah. But when, but, but much of the time, the default position for him is just reporting what other people have reported. Yes. And then doing some elementary moral reasoning, you know. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just connecting some quick moral dots. Exactly. Yeah, and I love the setting the pace thing because I think that to me, like watching Rabbi Shmoli, like shifting uncomfortably in that seat as, you know, Norman Finkelstein, quote, droned on, which is how he described that, like, you could feel the impatience in him. You could

feel the clock ticking in his head. And he's like, I'm only on TV for one hour. He's going to suck up half an hour of my stage time, of my time to make my points. Like, I need the material to make clips and he's taken fucking forever. Hey Matt, let's try, let's try for 30 seconds to just have a conversation at Finkelstein speed. See what happens. So, well, I would, I can't do it, bro. I can't. You try. You go first. Yeah. Well, Matt, I would say that there are two aspects to going at Finkelstein speed. Two aspects to going at Finkelstein speed.

Number one, be completely and totally unconcerned with the feelings, comfort level, and experience of your interlocutor, which is to say the person to whom you are speaking. Number two. That is perfect. That is literally that you've got his cadence down to a T. And it's something that I think for Schmali, reading a little bit of his history, found that, you know, again, he was big on British radio as the Jew that fought back. You know, his whole thing was, while every other, you know, anti-Israel, quote-unquote, like BBC host or BBC guest, every Palestinian would go on these, you know, and talk about the evils of Israel, as he put it. And he said the Jewish guests would, you know, say, well, I'm sorry you feel that way, but I feel differently, instead of fighting back.

So his whole thing was yelling, yelling and confronting, which makes for good entertainment, which is why he is an entertainer. That is what he is. He is, you know, a rabbi only insofar as it gets him, you know, the celebrity status that he craves. And he has went on record in 1999 in an interview in which he said, sure, I love promoting God in Judaism. But let's call a spade a spade a spade. The reason I'm on TV is because I want to be a celebrity. and he promotes God the way Don King promoted Mike Tyson

100%. He exploits God. He exploits his faith and he is using it for a singular purpose which is him being a famous person. And, you know, that worked out for a little bit for him and then he started declining in fame and October 7th was really his way of like coming back into the limelight And he has now... You think he was in on it? Oh, 100%.

No, I'm just kidding. But listen, hey, where was he on October 7? What's this I hear about... Yeah, did you know that no Jews went to work in Gaza on October 7th? I heard that. I heard that. They all got a phone call. That's a bad joke.

What's this I hear about him being a dildo salesman? So, yes, part of his brain... that has like been his continuing moneymaker has you know like I said it's been like his like relationship and couples like books that he writes and his daughter also has like a line of kosher dildos and kosher sex toys and stuff like that hold on hold on hold please tell me kosher dildos is spelt with two ls oh yeah 100% they are pickles they are literally just vlassic pickles you put them in you wait so they're so they're They're, you know, not ribbed, but, you know, they have the, they have the little, the little, yeah, little dots.

Yeah, and, and like, you know, he is, he's always trying to help promote. With extra acid for the chasids. It's actually, it starts out as a cucumber and you just keep it in your vagina for long enough until it pickles. That's a good deal. First it tickles, then it pickles. Oh, you know what, Rabbi Shmulli? you can have that tagline um but so his brand uh of late has been obviously defending israel and he wrote this article for the jewish journal that i just want to get into because it is

it it's it speaks to something so deep down in the psyche of not just uh him but also kind of the zionist mindset uh regarding um jews and diaspora jews and this anti-semitic in my opinion um feeling of disdain for the way Jews deal with anti-Semitism. And I'm going to read this from the Jewish Journal. It's called, Jews must be feared rather than loved. Oh, very Machiavellian. Very, very much so. And we will continue on with that.

So I'm going to just read some of the things here. He's shouting out the Malcolm X movie by Spike Lee. Yes, he does. So he says, in his outstanding 1992 movie, Malcolm, M-X. Director Spike Lee accurately portrays how the same need to fit in to be accepted, to assimilate into the mainstream, affected and influenced the life of a young and criminal Malcolm Little. He straightened his afro hair, dated white women, and despised his blackness. But what the nation of Islam gave him in prison was pride in being a black man. He would

become one of the transformational figures of the 20th century. And today, our family is friendly with this daughter Malak Shabazz who has been to our home for Shabbat dinner many times unfortunately what the nation also gave him was a hatred for white people, especially Jews, something that he ultimately rejected once he saw

through the hypocrisy of Elijah Muhammad about a year before his tragic assassination on the 21st of February in 1965. He was murdered just before he was or just as he was becoming a great man. Oh, that's quite a sentence. Quite a sentence.

He had such potential that Malcolm X, he didn't quite live up to my standards of greatness. Yes, yes, he was almost good, but unfortunately he still died, in his opinion, a bad man. But no one is suggesting that Jewish pride be accompanied by, God forbid, hatred of Gentiles, or in general, or our Muslim brothers and sisters in particular. If there's one thing, one great teaching that the Torah has brought the world articulated in the very first chapter of Genesis is that we are all Jew and Gentile alike, equal children of God. This is from 1999? No, this is from three days ago.

Oh, wow, okay. Yes. And then he says, what I am suggesting, however, is that unlike the black community, that finally began to purge the self-hatred that comes from 300 years of slavery and Jim Crow, most black people I know would say that's still a work in progress. We Jews have never fully expunged the self-loathing that almost inevitably becomes internalized after 2,000 years of anti-Semitism in the Holocaust.

Yeah, you know why Shmuli? Because Zionism has lodged that thing in there like a constipated shit. Like that's, that's, that shit is impacted in the original sense of the word. Zionism is what keeps the self-loathing intact, actually. Yes. And, you know, he goes on to talk about like internalizing anything. anti-Semitism when the whole world hates you. Yeah.

For two millennia, rather than putting the blame squarely on the anti-Semites where it belongs, you start thinking, well, maybe there is something wrong with us. Yeah, you know who fucking said that and wrote that and thought that and built a country based on it? Yes. Ben-Gurion and Jabotinsky and all these motherfuckers, Israel's founded on the conviction that there was something wrong with Jews. Yes.

And in this very article, I feel like he's doing this exact thing. It's very, like, it's very Jabotinsky-pilled in its talking about the fight against anti-Semitism being something that the Jews don't do well because we're too weak. And he goes on to talk about, like, George Floyd being murdered by a Minnesota cop in May of 2020, the black community never thought of being loved. They focused on being feared. I don't know what he's talking about there. I think what he's saying is that you remember when black. people were marching in the streets all scary like this this is clearly coming from a perspective of someone who saw the black lives matter protests as these like terrible scary um you know like uh riots

that uh would you like to know when my hatred of black people took gave way to love and respect when i saw them out in the streets with signs that looked like pitchforks to me that said treat us equally i feared them forever uh yeah and so he goes contrast that to how we how we how we how we how weakly we Jews fight anti-Semitism. A classic example being the $7 million Super Bowl ad against anti-Semitism financed by Robert Kraft's Foundation stand-up the Jewish hate, which featured Clarence Jones,

a former lawyer and advisor to Martin Luther King, Jr. Rather than focus directly on the issue at hand, which is the tsunami of anti-Semitism and Jew hatred engulfing America, right, the ad became a form of watered-down gibber. against Islamophobia and all other forms of hatred. Like this idea that because they mentioned the idea of hatred of a particular race or religious or ethnic group being like some universalized,

he saw that as a weak, weak defense of it. By the way, stand up to Jewish hate. Yeah, that's what this podcast is about. We are standing up to Jewish hate. It's the dumbest slogan in the world. I see these billboards. I'm driving on the BQE, stand up to Jewish hate, end Jewish hate. I'm like, Jesus Christ, if I was an anti-Semite, I'd be like these fucking Jews.

Yeah, yeah. And I'd be like, that's, I mean, listen, that is what we're doing here, trying to stand up to Jewish hate. And one of the biggest hate mongers out there right now is Shmoli. He calls that weak, pitiable, pathetic, what a waste. And he asked, how did Robert Kraft mess this up? and he said it's because he forgot what Niccolo Machiavelli said in the 15th century in his book The Prince It comes down to a simple axiom

It's nice to be loved, but it's more important to be feared He then literally goes on to talk about how Jews need to be more Machiavellian And how that's it's actually like that's how we're going to defeat the Nazis That's how we're going to defeat Hamas Goes on to say that's how we're going to defeat people like Rashida Talib and Ilhan Omar, American abominations like Ilhan Omar and Rashida and American Taliban like Rashida Talib

must have their hatred, bigotry, and anti-Semitism attack and exposed in the media nonstop. He talks about APEC spending a fortune running opposition candidates. He talks about basically doing all the things that APEC is already doing. His entire premise here is about the idea that Jews are biggest problems that were too weak and we need to be here. Yeah, we go to like, we go to like lambs to the slaughter, which is the classic self-hating. Yes.

Self-rejecting thing that's underlying Zionism. Can I read you some lyrics from a Broadway musical? Oh, please, please. So there's a Broadway musical based on the movie A Bronx Tale by Chaz Pometiri, you know, and Robert De Niro co-directed this musical. I actually worked on it. This is, oh, cool. Ten years ago, I was the, ten years ago.

I don't know, something like that. I was the transcriptionist. I do work sometimes for a Broadway music supervisor writing out sheet music. So I would get Alan Mencken, who wrote the music, he's the one who did the music for Little Shop of Horrors and Little Mermaid and all that. I would get his home demos,

and I'd have to listen and write out by ear. Anyway, so this is one of the songs that the mafia boss sings to the young Italian kid who needs a father figure. Nikki Machiavelli. Nicky Machiavelli. Let me tell you what, he said, you want to use the reins of power. First you got to use your head.

Anyway, Nikki knew all the angles. Nikki laid it out all clear. You got to choose fear or love kid. You got to choose love or fear. Wow. You know, and then at a certain point, all my friends, they sleep easy, knowing that I'm always near. My enemies know it too, though.

It ain't about love, it's fear. And as far as those friends go, Nick suggests a real short leash. Treat him well, but hey, not too well. Keep him in your debt, capish. Give him too much. They won't need you. Give too little and they'll sneel. And they'll sneer.

Want to know what to give him? The answer ain't love, it's fear. Those lyrics are by Glenn Slater. Fantastic. Yeah. Yeah, go check it out from the musical of Bronx, too. I mean, that is amazing. And, you know, he talks about Machiavelli in this article as like, you know, a lot of people incorrectly

think it's some sort of mafia handbook. it's actually like really important like this idea of Jews need to be feared this idea is for me I just look at it as it's just completely number one it is antithetical to the idea that you would like to somehow stop anti-Semitism a group of people that you want to or need to fear is imagine imagine imagine the Muslim community being like we need to stop Islamophobia by making them afraid of us yes exactly it's it's what do you think of phobia is bro it's it's so insane to me and it just comes from this place where you see it in real time you see the type of anti-Semitism that Zionism brings up in people the idea that you would like suggest this as

you know, a strategy, a PR strategy to help Israel and to make people afraid of Jews. Does not make Jews safer in America. I'll tell you that much. And in terms of trauma responses, and I'm going to need to go after this. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Something else starting. But, you know, I think, you know, there's fight, flight, freeze, and fawn. Fawning is when you try to placate your enemies. He thinks he's the fighter and he's going against the fauners. In fact, his is the fauning because he's trying to say, Look at us. We're tough like you.

We belong. You should take us out of the category of victims and let us into the clubhouse of tough, strong oppressors. Look at me in my in my blindingly white suit going up. And he just ended up looking like such a schmucky Botox. Don't be a schmucky Botox, folks. Do not be a smucky Botox. You know, be literally anyone else.

Daniel Mote, thank you so much for coming on. you know, uh, sometimes co-hosting with me. I know you got to take off. Do you have anything you want to plug? I got to take off like a hoser, eh? Yeah. Like a Canadian hoser. Um, nothing to plug, uh, in particular, but you can follow me at Daniel B. Matte. Everywhere handles work. Yeah. It's, it's, he's a great follow. Follow him. He is fantastic. And we'll be putting, uh, links to, um, your, uh, uh, uh, uh, mental chiropractic and your walk with Daniel as well we'll put it in the yeah actually i will plug one quick thing starting on i mean it'll be too late if people are watching this after sunday

but if you're watching oh they'll be watching it today i'm putting it out today baby okay good good good so there's a course that i'm co-leading with my friend hidar koan called a jewish healing circle which sounds kind of maybe corny to some people are new age but really we're just trying to get some jews together who are feeling fucked up about what's going on and facing the fact that something's going to need to come out of this that isn't Zionism. We're going to need in some way to find something we can salvage about being, unless we just want to call the game and say, okay, Judaism's over, Jewishness is over.

But I don't think we want to do that. I don't think you and me want to do that. I don't think you'd be doing this podcast and satire and humor and love and solidarity. These are all things. So she and are going to be leading a four-week kind of discussion group on Zoom and I'll send Matt the link that you can put in the description for that if you want to check that out.

Could be cool for some people. I think it'll be great. Yes, check out the link, click it. It's going to be fantastic. Both of you are incredibly emotionally intelligent people and just intelligent in general. But I make better dildo jokes. Oh, 100%.

I mean, listen, you know, you can't mess with a master. Thank you, Daniel. Love you, Doug. Love you too, dude. Bye. Bye. Okay. Just to close out this episode, that article with Rabbi Shmoli is, it ends with him saying he talks about having a dinner, a Shabbat dinner with some friends.

And they're talking about the Holocaust. And he asks. Would you get on the train, yes or no? And he's asking, he says, one Sabbath I asked my Friday night guest, whom I love to challenge on historical and moral issues, a simple yet offensive question. You lived during the Holocaust and the Nazis were liquidating the ghetto in order you to get on the train. Would you have gotten in or resisted? And, you know, he said yes or no. I asked the journalist, politicians, and professors at our table, each answer differently.

with the spit being about equal between those who said they would obey the SS order and protect to protect their children. And the other half saying that they would disobey you, even if it meant being shot. And then he said, it's a trick question because by the time the Nazis get you on the train, the game is up, there is no resistance. You're going to die one way or another, either being gassed or shot. His article here basically ends with him saying that in order to fight anti-Semitism, you do everything possible to stay far away from the train.

And I look at this and this is an argument for a preemptive strike against, quote, anti-Semitism or against any kind of perceived anti-Semitism. And I think this is the issue that I find to be more the most grotesque. It's just like we are taking this idea. that in order to that we must of course fight anti-Semitism. Antisemitism is bad, obviously. This is something we've talked about extensively on this podcast being against it. And, you know, but this idea that you're going to preemptively fight the Nazis is an argument that is with regards to Palestinians, it is absolutely genocidal in nature. This idea that we need to

never again be in a position in which there is a train is just meant to bolster the idea that the Palestinians are going to be the ones that build it and inverts the reality of what's going on because what is going on? What's going on is that Gaza is that ghetto. Gaza is the ghetto that is being liquidated. Gaza is the ghetto that is being liquidated and having soldiers telling them you can either get out or be killed here. This type of resistance that he's talking about is what exists in Gaza and is what is constantly being described as terrorism. But when you have this inverted Zionist narrative of like, oh, well, you know, we're actually the victims and Hamas and the Palestinians are actually the oppressive Nazis. You can say this shit with a

straight face and not even blink. You could just say it and not even use your brain a little bit to go like, well, maybe what I am actually describing here is what Israel is doing currently to the Palestinians and has been doing for, you know, the last 70 years. So, yeah, looking at Rabbi Shmoli and just trying to like put into context the Zionist mind, I think it's a really interesting exercise because it really tells you everything you need to know about how they view, how Zionists view Jews who are not pro-Israel or Jews who are not actively, loudly, fully supporting the government of Israel. And it, you know, it's no way for me to look at that and not see the self-hatred

and ingrained anti-Semitism that he talks about. at the beginning of this article. This is the self-hate. The self-hate is looking at your fellow Jews and being like, you're a coward if you don't support this state. You are, it's because you hate yourself that you are not allowing Israel

to kill every man, woman, and child that they deem a threat. And yeah, fuck that. Fuck you, rabbi. Is he really a rabbi? Who knows? Before we end this podcast today, first, thank you again to Daniel Mante for coming on and, you know, talking about sad things with me in the funniest way we know how. Because what can you do?

He's great. Follow him and click the links that I put in the bio. Patreon.com slash bad hasbarra. This is the best way to support this podcast. Please, if you want to support this continuing effort, the more patrons I get, the more I can quit my job to, I don't want you, no more. And, you know, obviously, you get something for your money, because eventually, as, you know, things start getting a little bit more stable around the leave household, there will be bonus episodes for subscribers only, and you will be. getting access to those. You also, just by joining, you get ad-free episodes of Bad Hezbara, so you don't have to listen to those pesky ads for who the F knows. I think, you know,

sometimes I heard some people sent in. There were some Hasbara ones, which I just think is funny. Please, Israeli government, keep paying me to. If there are Hezbara ads in there, I love the idea of getting paid by Israel and having a whole podcast about, why their ads are bullshit um but yes uh please support patreon.com slash bad hasbara uh there is a new tier on that patreon um and i'm going to uh read out i'm going to the ten dollar tier you get the most moral shout out and i want to give those now um because uh it is it's the end of the episode and it's time and i want to thank these people for doing so so i'm going to do my best to read everyone's name here some of them i'm going to get right and some of them i'm not going to pronounce

correctly but i love you um and i'm saying what is closest to the name that i can get some people have no well you'll see okay first um this uh shout out to cole hammond also shout out to someone just named varza and then shout out to okay his name is steve garing you know G-O-E-R-I-N-G I would just hope he's not related to the other Garing but if he is, I would also like the idea

that you know, the doesn't matter thank you Steve he's probably not next is Rami Akawi Rami Akawi Thank you so much

Preston Preston Kroll Michael Shemesh, someone named Mecharogue. Then there's Isaac Gerson. And then there's Lala. And also thank you to Sean Matthews. And thank you to Jillian, Trafe, Waller.

Tref? That's cool. It's a, well, it's not spelled that way, but, you know, it's a Yiddish word. It doesn't matter. And next, thank you. you Jen Zen. Cool name. Next, thank you, Hesham, and thank you, Hazelito. Thank you, LSD. Thank you, Christopher Collins. Thank you, Chris Missel. Chris Missal. Okay. Just a few more. Thank you,

Brad Rogers. Thank you, Avery Turner, Withdren. Thank you, Andrew Irvin. Thank you, Amy Vieres, Orvarez. And lastly, thank you, Alex, Aaron Feld. All of you rule and I love you. And if you want to get your name shouted out, patreon.com slash badhusbar. Please join, join, if you want, I don't know. Um, okay. Finally, I want to end the podcast a different way. Um, usually I end with some, you know, some joke or whatever and plugs and stuff. But I want to end with an email. It's not a, it's, it's a voicemail that I got from somebody, uh, who emailed us at bad hasbara at gmail.com. Um, and this is from someone who, uh, is describes himself from a former kahanist. Um, his name is Amichai Axelrod and wrote me this, uh, lovely email and then sent me a voicemail. Um, it's, it's long.

But when I heard it, it just made me very, very grateful for this podcast and for this, you know, small but mighty community of people who have been listening to this and talking to me and sending me links and clips and jokes and stuff. And also their experiences and their stories. And I want to once again encourage people to send a voice memo because I, um, I, I would like to play more of them. I would like to, I'm trying to answer emails as fast as I can. It's really hard to do, plus having all this other work. But this one I just wanted to share because it was just, it was just a fascinating perspective. And I thought that it would be good for people to hear it as we end this podcast today. So I'm going to play that for you

And thank you everyone for listening And once again From the river to the sea I'm just going to say Palestine will be free Okay Hi Matt My name is Ami Chai Axelrod Though I go by Ami

I also go by he him they And I am recording in the historical territory of the Cowlitz Cayuse, Umatia, and the Walla Walla Tribes, and the Confederate lands of the Grand Ronde, and the Confederated Tribes of the Silates. I am an Israeli-American of Jewish and Romani heritage, born with dual citizenship in so-called Israel, in the north, near the Lebanese border, though I grew up in Queens, New York. I am writing and recording this in the days after Airman Aaron Bushnell succumbed to his

injuries from lighting himself on fire in front of the Israeli embassy in Washington, D.C., in protest to so-called Israel's genocide of the Palestinian people and the so-called United States complicity in this genocide. I have been mulling over sharing my story for months now, and in light of Airman Bushnell's sacrifice, I find that it is literally the least that I can do. So, I was raised in an orthodox Jewish kahanist household. If you or your listeners are unaware, Rabbi Mayor Kahana was a militant right-wing ideologue that founded the Jewish Defense League in 1968.

Kahana was a right-wing Jewish nationalist, some argue fascist, advocating Aliyah, Jewish settlement of Palestine, who was virulently anti-Arab. He gained a seat in Knesset, Israel's parliament in 1984, but was barred in 1988 due to his racism. The Israeli colonial project had more pretense about its respectability at the time. So beside the average trauma inflicted upon me, by virtue of being a Jew raised on this planet after World War II, I was also indoctrinated in right-wing hate of Palestinian people,

raised with the belief of Jewish supremacy in Israel. As I entered college, my politics leaned left. I protested against the Iraq War. I traveled to Washington, D.C. to rally in solidarity with Darfur and generally espoused progressive, if not socialistic values. I still had a blind spot, though. Palestine. I still believed in Israel's propaganda,

its Hasbara, its supposed rights to exist, to defense, and its declared morality of operations. I argued these points with people whose families had been brutalized by the occupation. It wasn't until five years ago when I would come to a place where I could interrogate and amend these beliefs. In the summer of 2019, I experienced a little light police brutality directed upon my person, and that radicalized me and began my adoption of anarchic ideologies. In 2020, during the George Floyd protests, I found myself on the receiving end of the practice of ketaling, being surrounded by police and subjected to tear gassing without an avenue of escape, a practice developed and proselytized by the Israeli army,

two police forces the world over. This is arguably what Robert Evans pointed out in season one, of it could happen here as Foukholz boomerang, practices of colonization being brought to the imperial core and used against its citizens, if one considers the interconnectedness of imperial projects. My various exposures to tear gas that year and police brutality further radicalized me and made me much more deeply empathetic to the Palestinian plight at the hands of Israeli subtler colonialism, though I must admit some embarrassment of not having that shift until I was personally affected. Since October 7th, my timelines have been filled with friends, family, and strangers that are Zionist sympathizers posting their support for Israel.

I have a brother, nieces, nephews, and cousins that reside there, some of which are actively in the so-called IDF, though most of my relatives live in the so-called U.S., I don't wish harm upon my family, though I certainly can't wish for their prosperity either. I see now the maliciousness of the history of the Nakhba and the occupation, the left and right-wing attempts at subjugation, and the venom that it engendered. I understand this so-called conflict for the genocide that it is. The rhetoric of Zionism makes me embarrassed, through their propaganda of equating their fascism with Judaism. Every time I see Am Yusrael-Kai, the nation of Israel lives on their banners, I am sickened. It feels like they are literally doing this in my name, Amichai being derivative of this phrase.

My guts and knots with this? I wonder how a country supposedly borne out of the ashes of the Holocaust can act this way to another people. How can Jews there and abroad Nazi the fascism that drips from their rhetoric, the dehumanization of a people so maligned and downtroddened by their military and politic, how can they not see the hypocrisy of it all? Whatever answers that may be mustered in my imaginings in the darkness of the fact of this genocide, they are no comfort or true rationale. The 30,000 men, women and children killed, the millions of refugees malnourished,

mistreated and traumatized, in the collective. punishment carpet bombings of the apartment complexes, hospitals and universities of Gaza, and the lockouts of aid, and the killing of journalists and UN workers in the second Nakbah, they haunt me. And my own trauma of conditioned fear over the potential of another Holocaust, as explanation for Zionism and Israel's continuation and my worry and anger over my family, these are not worth anyone else's life. I look to Airman Bushnell's action with a variety of emotions, particularly in finding out he held anarchic beliefs. I am reminded of anarchist Willem Vince Bronson and his one-man assault of the Tacoma Ice Detention Center in 2019, which led to his

execution by Tacoma PD. In the aftermath of Spronson's action, his comrade stated, this movement needs accomplices, not martyrs. And I wonder if this is true for Bushnell as well. His circumstance was different than Spronzen's, though. Bushnell stated prior to his self-immolation that he would no longer be complicit in the genocide Israel was conducting. As an active duty Air Force member, he was likely ordered to participate.

Addressing his objections via the chain of command and refusal to comply would likely have been met with. a quiet court-martial that would have landed him in a military prison and or being dishonorably discharged, a sacrifice that may have soothed his conscience, but would not have done anything for the Palestinian plight. And so my emotions are complex, feeling loss for a potential comrade, and awe at his brave commitment, sadness for his parting and for his family's grief and the likely right-wing targeting that is about to ensue, sorrow for his feeling like this was his only avenue to help the cause and gratitude to his staunch resolve.

There are many more feelings amongst the stew of this, but chief amongst them is hope, seeing the undeniable discourse his last act engendered at the imperial core, demanding that we pay Palestine heed. His death was not in vain. Beyond Ermin Bushnell, there are peace talks in Paris and Qatar supposedly nearer to armistice than has been since October 7th. And the Michigan primary has delivered the message strongly to the Democrats that the people will not suffer our own complicity in genocide. And so I have hope. And this is what I hope for. May those who are mourning their losses in Gaza, and the family of Airmen Bushnell be comforted with the other mourners of the world, and may their memories be a blessing. May those in Gaza find peace, comfort and solace, may their hungers be slaked, and their thirsts quenched.

I hope for the emancipation of hostages from Ghazan and Israeli capture. May we have an indefinite ceasefire soon and to free Palestine. and may the world see through the charade and pageantry of nation, states, and empires, and may people triumph over profit and corporate greed in our lifetimes. Thank you for your time, Matt. Please keep up the good and important work you're doing, maintaining a space where Jews like me don't feel completely alone in this dark and frustrating time. Jumping jacks was us, push-ups was us, god-ma-gah us, all karate us,

taking Molly us, us. us, Yamaha keyboards, us, Georgia binks on us, Andor was us, Heath Ledger Joker us, endless fed success, happy meals was us, McDonald's was us, being happy us, bequem yoga us, eating food, us, breathing air, us, drinking water us. We invented all that shit. Thank you.