Bad Hasbara - The World's Most Moral Podcast - Bad Hasbara 2: Reverse Gallows Humor with Shereen Younes

Episode Date: December 24, 2023

This week podcaster Shereen Lani Younes of Ethnically Ambiguous joins Bad Hasbara to talk about Israel and whatnot.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/bad-hasbara/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Moshwamha, bitch, driven poker coat. We invented the dirty tomato and weighs USB drives and the iron dome. Israeli salad, oozy stents, a job as orange rose. iPhone chips is us, iPhone cameras bus, taco salads us, both of us, both of us, all of garden us, white foster us, Zabra Hamas, Hasbara Slaus. Welcome to Bad Hasbara, the world's most moral podcast.

I am your host, Matt Lieb, and I thank you once again for spending some time with me talking about the latest and greatest in Israeli propaganda. What a fun concept for a podcast. You know, as someone who has podcasted for years, and I've done all sorts of podcasts. you know, about the Sopranos, about the wire, about like, movies and stuff. I have to say, this one, the most depressing, but also the most fun. We're going to have a good time talking about some of the wonderful things going on in the Middle East, everyone's favorite region.

Our guest today is a hilarious podcaster. You have heard her. If you haven't heard her on the great podcast ethnically ambiguous, please start listening to it immediately because it is one of the few podcasts I actually listen to. And it's very good. Ladies and gentlemen and everyone else, our guest, Shireen Yunis. There we go. Yay.

boom, bam. Thanks for having me. Disclaimer audience, I'm getting over a cold. So, I mean, I always sound kind of off, but I sound more off today. Yeah, she's on Sudafed. So if she says something a little anti-Semitic. That's not what I mean. I mean the sound of my voice.

Listen. But sure. One time Roseanne Barr took too much dayquil, I think, and started saying racist stuff. So I understand if, you know, sometimes a little sleep. lips out. I'm just kidding. Shereen, thank you for coming on this podcast. Thanks for inviting me. You know, we've, we've been homies for a long time.

We've talked about this subject for a long time. And I want to start off by first asking you, how you doing? How are you holding up? How's a bad? Real bad. Still bad. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just hard to, to, even when you have like moments of good, like with my family,

with my nephew or something, something will always. remind me oh what i really i am is that where you're going to do exactly exactly yeah uh but i don't think it's a bad thing i think we should all i think it would be a huge luxury to be able to forget about what's happening so i'm not doing too well regarding that and i'm sick so no i'm doing bad matt i'm doing really bad fair enough i mean listen i it's you know it's a christmas time it's a it's a it's the season of of of laughter and joy um and you're saying that you're against that and i guess that's fine you know i don't know i feel like uh maybe the christmas spirit hasn't hit you yet you know like uh tomahawk missile into a palestinian hospital my friend

was like what are you doing for christmas are you going to see your family and like i really like my family does not give a shit about christmas but one we're muslims But two, like, it never even occurred to me that we all have to, it was just the most. You have to be happy at this time of the year. Yeah. Yeah. So who knew after over 30 years of life that I would just realize that. But.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, listen, I think that this is probably the most depressing Christmas season that I have had in, in my lifetime. Like, I've been kind of patiently waiting for. this like christmas spirit to take over because i i love christmas i think christmas is great the vibe is nice it's a good vibe everyone's like you know there's just kind of this cheer there is cheer it feels good you know i i i'm not anti-christmas i'm very pro-christmas um and i like literally were recording this on december 23rd yeah and i'm like

is it just not going to happen this year? I mean, is Santa cancelling Christmas? There's like that photo that everyone saw of like a nativity scene getting blown to bits. And like what hip, if there's like if there are Christians, Zionists, which are like most of the Zionists in this country,

that it just doesn't make any sense to me that you can like watch that and be like, yay, Jesus Christ, still my guy. Because that's like literally his hometown. Yeah, right. Yeah. It's like literally, that'd be like loving Will Smith and then, you know, having people bomb West Philadelphia and being like, no, I still like the people who bomb West Philadelphia.

Like, why? What the fuck. That's what makes sense to me. And as a Jewish person, it's like, you know, listen, we have been trying to avoid the charge of starting a war on Christmas for ever, bro. forever. Wait, would you put it that way? That's really flicking. Yeah, it's like we are desperately trying to be like, no, no, no, no.

We love Christmas. We love Christmas. You know what? We're going to celebrate Hanukkah and we're just going to make it Christmas, but it's got blue and white lights, you know? Like, we have been trying so bad to not kill the Christmas spirit just to keep peace with our Christian neighbors. At least, you know, I'm talking about, uh, diaspora.

of Jews. Right. And Israel comes along and is like, you know, we're just going to, we're going to shoot a couple of Christians praying in a church in Gaza and then pretend. We're going to blow up and destroy the oldest church, one of the oldest ones on the fucking planet. Yeah, yeah, you know. And so we have to, you know, sit here and just be like, that's not, I'm not doing war on

that's, you know, it's just like you're putting us in a bad spot. But that's kind of what they do. They like to put me in a bad spot. They like to put every Jew on earth in the position of apologizing for a people who I'm like, are we even the same guy? I don't think so. And that's, well, that's a little bit of what this podcast is going to be about in terms of talking about some of this week's Hasbara, because this week has been like, um, uh,

I mean, ever since the seventh, there has been, like, just the most disgusting and out of touch, like, comedy content coming out from Israel. From soldiers that have the time to make fucking TikToks. Yes, exactly. And it's, like, gotten to a point where, you know, just recently where I've, like, been seeing video after video. and I'm just like, one of the defining traits of, I think, of Jews, stereotypically, of course, but I believe this, you know, holds up to be sort of true. Is that a very funny and self-deprecating people, right? That's like the stereotype.

And I find that is the case for a lot of us. And this is just one of many facets of Israeli society where I'm just like, this it's just like just the like plainly one of the most unfunny people that I've ever seen just not a shred of humor inside humor or humility or humility or any of the self deprecation none of that stuff and I think it's because a lot of where that comes from is of course as a defense mechanism from being, you know, a diasporic people and from, you know, from dealing with anti-Semitism, you know, from neighbors and all that stuff, and not being in power. And I think as soon as you have the, you know, the liberty to become the oppressor, the sense

of humor goes away entirely. And so, like, you know, this. But you don't know it. Like, you still think you're funny. You know what I mean? Like, you're oblivious to the fact that you're just insufferable. Yes. And I'm like, and I'm watching it.

And I'm just like, usually Hasbara is very American focused, right? It's for an American audience. It's meant to be funny or not funny, but it's meant to be for us. It's meant to be like something that we're going to understand, a propaganda spin that like vibes with Western values. They're making, being. pro zionism a brand like a cool brand right but like the shit like this is just something that happened recently it was from um this uh well i'll just play it uh this is what is clearly a uh someone

who is on the hasbar team within israel uh because he's holding a camera but he's wearing you know his idea uh flack jacket and uh this is this is the uh bit this is the bit they do knocking on a door no one's home oh and we pan out and we we see that the joke

is that all that's left standing of that building is a door yeah I actually saw that because you tweeted about it just a couple hours ago and it makes me so I mean that's honestly

terrible and one of the least offensive ones I've seen as far as like stupid fucking videos go there's there's thousands of them it's just so many videos of like Israeli TikTok in which that's just like an Israeli woman dressing like an Arab covered in blood and doing it covered in dust and then like for whatever reason like blacking out her teeth

like whatever it is they they it's really fucking gross. And you'll, you also see these videos of like live streamers. They're like, oh, there's a Israeli person. And then they're just very honest and vocal about how they're like, we hate, you should die. Yeah, yeah. No, we should kill the Palestinians. Yeah. And, and you're just like, I, I watch this and I go like, you know, it's just like, number one, just a deeply, deeply unfunny people. Yeah. And number two, I don't think, I think that the, you know, being the oppressor in a society, like being that has warped the entire, like, cultural vibe of like Jewish comedy. Because that's not, it's not Jewish comedy to me.

No, absolutely not. And what I, what I say is, it's Israeli comedy and Israel is completely separate. Yes, it's just, it's just different. It's, I'm sorry, but it's just, complete like I look at that and I go like this is not who this can't be for us it's not landing in the way they want it to it does not land. Listen I love jokes. I love Gallo's humor but I think Israelis think that gallows humor is when the hangman does a joke. They think that oh you know what's really funny is like if you know you kill a bunch of people and then you go like oh no No, I have to clean up the floor. And it's like, that's not, you're thinking, you're thinking of, I think, maybe like parts of a really, you know, like a, maybe a Scorsese movie or whatnot.

And like, that's not, why that's funny in that movie is not why it's funny in real life. You know what I mean? It's like, 100%. It's tone deaf and stupid. And I mean, like, the, so many people. believe that Israel was like a gift for Jews after the Holocaust, which is not true for, I mean, you can just look it up, but like Balfour Declaration and all this other stuff. I think Zionism and the establishment of Israel in general is rooted in anti-Semitism, but that's like

another thing. But when you, the Israelis now, they've never been victims of anything. Like most of the Israelis now, they're just, they've always been the occupier, the oppressor, the ones with more rights. And I think that's just truly the victim of their own hubris, the victim of their apartheid government, sure, absolutely. You know, the victim

of terrorists who are doing terrorism for a very specific political purpose that has at the very least a valid like a valid reason for being. Like there's no part of me as someone who's

a Jew who doesn't understand resistance. You know what I mean? And like that's not to say that I'm a pro violence or anything like that. But like the idea that you would look at these people and, you know, see them as just in a vacuum terrorists and not. I mean, they, it's kind of stupid because they do see it. Because they see their retaliation as valid, you know? Yes. Yeah. By any means. Right. And the retaliation is always when it comes at them, terrorism. So it's really stupid. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's really insane and it's really like I, you know, I watch something like that and I'm just like, you know, it's one thing to say like, oh, you know, we all, we're all indigenous to land. Like, I look at

that on its face and I know like, oh, God, like, I'm sorry, but that's, you're doing, you know, we're all from Africa. Like, that's what you're doing. You just reminded me that Eve Fartlow is trending again. Yeah, I love what EFartlow trends. It's beautiful. Also, not our fault that they have, like, good names for poop puns. Like, Noah Schittsby. Yeah, I'm sorry, but you, listen, that's not. You asked for it. I'm sorry, but you kind of did. You can't go around being named Barlow. No. I mean, she's the one that really made it a thing, though. Right. She kept talking about her hate name. They called me All her tweets are too good to be true, but the one that's getting a lot of attention now is about her saying she's going to Israel, I'm going home.

And then someone like quote tweeting her being like, you were born, you were born in Scotland. You're from Scotland. And then now she's replying being like every person that agrees that I'm not indigenous to the land is anti-Semitic. They believe in the genocide of the Jews, all of other stuff. Of course. Like, I'm just as indigenous to Israel as she is. That's the truth. Yeah.

Yes. Yes. And listen, I'm sorry. But this is, I've heard this before. It was a thing that like racist housewives used to say in the 90s. They would say we're all from Africa originally. So I don't see color. And you'd be like, oh.

I do want to read the thing, I think. I just thought. Oh, the E. Fartlow thing? Yeah. Yes, please. Her tweets are just, oh, wow. Okay.

When you click on the, this is like a very obvious thing. Well, you click on the trending thing. Other things are reminding me of the dumb stuff she says. But she said recently that so long, Gen Z, from now on, I call you Gen H Generation Hamas. Yeah. Well, it's another letter. Oh, okay. Never forget this.

Sorry. This is her tweet from 2013, March 17th. I hate it when the only seats left on the bus are seats Mexicans just sat in. Like who wants to feel Latino butt heat when they sit down? Barf face. So that's who's indigenous, I suppose. Yes, yes. I mean, you know, listen, she was young.

She was probably on Dayquil. She was probably on Dayquil. She was probably on Sudafid and she had not yet honed and, you know, targeted her racism yet. Right. You know, like now she would be horrified that she said that about anyone who wasn't Palestinian. Yeah, that's a good point. I like that at the end.

I was like, wait, and then you got it. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I do. You know, I make jokes and stuff. And the reason for that is because I'm not Israeli. Here's the thing. You make good jokes. You make good jokes because you're not Israeli.

Right. That's, you know, and listen, there are good Israeli comedians. They are all leftists. And I would not put them in the category of, you know, the rest of their country. But they know. They know the amount of fucking hogs who will laugh at the dead over there. Yeah, because they're horrified by it too. The Israeli government has what I mentioned earlier that they're victims of when like the

victims of the apartheid regime or whatever, but they're also like so many of them have been brainwashed to truly not think Palestinians and Muslims are human. Right. Like, it's, it's really, it's scary because you, that's why it's acceptable to blow them up in mass and just dehumanize them to that level. But, okay, I was thinking about this with the knocking on the door video that you shared, they're really just proving, they're showing their ass. Like, what kind of indigenous person that sees the land as sacred is boasting about destroying ancient buildings or, like, burning. all of trees. Like the most, the best argument against Zionism is truly that if you love the land, you wouldn't destroy it. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, I think that that is 100% true. I think

the idea of like tying the Zionist project to like a sacred religious love for the land. You know, Ben Gurian going to the beach and kissing the ground and stuff like that, you know, and standing on his head and all that like this idea of this beautiful sacred promised land thing it's like one of many myths surrounding Zionism as being anything other than about domination and ethnic cleansing you know like the yes you would not in that way I'm glad that there are the holy land yeah but like do you know don't do what I mean like in that way I'm glad that there's so a to post this kind of shit because that's that's the truth. That's who they are. And so real people with with actual brains will see that for what it is. Yeah. But so yeah, in a way,

it's kind of nice that they're so shameless because I know. It's getting it straight from the source. I know. It's it's it's really like, you know, again, it's this is one of the reasons I want to start this podcast was because I was like, oh, they're they're so bad at it now. They're so bad at it. They're really bad at it now. They used to be good at it though. And like, you know, I'll still talk to people who like they were so good at it. People are still repeating, you know, the same. Give me an example. I don't know if I, uh, follow. They were good at it in that like they could get the liberals on board by being like, we love gay people. We are, you know, did Chelsea Handler, Noah Schittspe video? Have you seen videos of that going on?

I just, someone just sent that to me right before we started the podcast. And so I'm like, oh, I haven't had time to to see all the bullshit and all the lies that are in there. A big part of it is how if gay people need to love Israel because like it's, they accept gay people, which is like actually not true. You're not even gay marriages are not allowed. Yeah. You can't get gay married in Israel. Yeah. Just period.

You cannot get. Actually, no, that's a really good point. Yeah. They were good at pinkwashing Israel. They've been really good at that. because everyone believes that Israel loves gay people, which is not true. Right, right. That's good Hasbar, I suppose.

Yes. I mean, it worked. And it works so well that people still repeat the same things now. But the problem is now when someone flies a pride flag in the ruins of a residential neighborhood, people go, oh, wait. Yeah, that's not me. I think I see what this is like you make it obvious like it's literally showing their own ass yes yes they show now they're showing their own ass in this way and then you know I have said this I think on the last pod which is that like you know this is what happens when you've been able

to like shift further and further right wing and do war crimes with impunity is that eventually you're just like you get a little bit rusty at the game because you've never really had to work that hard you know because no one's really taking you to task anymore so now all of their propaganda sounds so insane. And I have another example. Please. And this one is, so this one is, do, do, do, do, do. All right, water.

This is a guy named at little buddy Max. His name is Max. He's got Star David, a heart, a rainbow flag, you know, Canada. And so, you know, he's a Canadian Zionist, they assume, I don't know. So he is quote tweeting Greta Toonberg, you know her. She is a climate activist from one of those derby derby places. Where's she from? Oh, my God.

It's not racist to do a Scandinavian voice, okay? I'm doing this fucking Swedish chef. She is Swedish for the record. Okay, there we go. So, yeah. It's me. Get at the teen, bitch. No, she's great.

And she's a climate activist, and she has been, you know, from the beginning, a vocal voice for Palestinians and for ceasefire. And she had that octopus in the background. She had the octopus plushy. So she should be tried at the hague and murder. But, yeah, so she posted Climate Strike Week 279, hashtag, Friday's for Future. hashtag climate strike and um in swedish uh it says you know a big sign in swedish that says like strike for climate and then right next to it is a sign that says free palestine now uh little buddy max here has quote tweeted it saying israel leads to the world in water recycling at 92 percent solar water

heating at 83 percent invented drip irrigation revitalized soil uh damage by otterly your intro song yes Yes, this is literally, right. Damaged by Ottoman Railway and agricultural malpractice, received native species like Judean, revived species like native, revived native species like Judean date palms and wheat strains

that went extinct due to colonization. Interesting choice of words. So just looking at that, this is what, and I'm sure, Sure, this term exists. I haven't Googled it, but this is like what I would call like greenwashing it. And it shows, there's a few things going on in there in terms of old Israeli has Barra. So you have the actually where really Israel is great for the climate, you know, net zero carbon emission. They've never done anything wrong.

No, exactly. And also, you know, like the intro song, the other way they invent is they start up wash it. They go like, look at all the things we invented. We're geniuses. We're geniuses, you know. And so just like looking at that now, when I saw that, the first thing that I tweeted was thank you so much for bringing this out, you know, into the open. Israel does not get enough credit for being like the best in the West at banking rainwater. Google West Bank Rainwater. And so the bit in there that I was doing was essentially if you don't know.

And I always find a lot of people who don't know this stuff, which is why I'm very happy to explain this shit, is that Israel does not let the occupied territories gather rainwater. There has been an occupation of water since 1967, since the, you know, the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. It is like one of those things where you, when you first read about it, you're like you see it as like a tweet and you go like, I don't know, like that, like you can't be real. That can't be real. You're like, okay, maybe that's probably, like, there's like a green of truth. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, then I was looking it up and I found that there is a Snopes article about this.

And I was like, okay, I'm going to read the Snopes article. And I got to say, shout out to Snopes because I was honestly, like, surprised at how much actual research. that they did into this fucking snopes okay so Palestinians for for forbidden from collecting rainwater because it's deemed quote Israeli property which is crazy just a side note like they take their land and then they occupy not just the land but the fucking sky like yes yes they literally occupy the sky and the contents of the sky so they talked about this post and that's it claimed rainwater is the property of Israel.

And Palestinians are forbidden from gathering rainwater. Rainwater is the property of Israel. Mm-hmm. That is just that sentence is crazy. Yes. Yes. And it, they said it appeared to quote a UN report as well. And in this article, not only do they confirm that it was actually taken from a real

report by independent human rights organizations submitted to a UN body in 2011, which found that Palestinians and the West Bank were not able to gather rainwater for their needs. It not only found that, but it also found like tons of other sources, including from 2017 Amnesty International Report titled The Occupation of Water, per the report in the 1967 Israeli military authorities, in in 1967 Israeli military authorities consolidated complete power over all water resources and water-related infrastructure in the the occupied Palestinian territories. Military order 158. And that's something you should look up on your own. It required that all Palestinians get a permit from the Israeli military before constructing

any new water installation. And since then, any extraction of water and water infrastructure development has had to go through Israel, which has resulted in, quote, devastating consequences for Palestinians there, according to Amnesty International. Israel even controls the collection of rainwater through most of the West Bank and rainwater harvesting cisterns owned by Palestinian communities are often destroyed by the Israeli army. So, honestly, shout out to Snopes. Like, Snopes is that website that you go to to see if that's actually that lady's tities. You know what I mean? Oh, is that what it does?

I mean, not me, not me, but other people who would, like, want to see tities. Like, yeah, like, Snopes is the amount of stuff that I used to read on Snopes was always, it was always fun little internet rumors. You know what I mean? And, like, the idea that there are, like, journalists at Snopes who are like, let's dig in and actually doing real journalism. I'm like. Better than the fucking year. Times. Better than New York Times, better than the Washington Post, better than most major print

journalist, you know, journalistic institutions. And, of course, not to mention any 24-hour news network. So you look at that and then you look at, I don't know, that post by our little buddy Max and you just go like the fucking audacity to be like, you know, Israel's actually really good at recycling water. Yeah, we, I mean, we don't give it to people who are dying of thirst or who are dying of hunger and cannot fucking, you know, grow their own plans, but we're good at recycling it.

That's the dumbest. I mean, that's another, yeah, it's greenwashing in a way. Yeah. It's, it's so like you're really, you really got to have, you got to have chutzpah, but like an evil version of chutzpah, but like an evil version of chutzpah. You know what I mean? Yeah. What do you call that?

It's like being a piece of shit. Balls of shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, balls of steel. Yeah, balls of shit. I have that one. I'm sorry, that was not funny. No, no, but there's where, where this is.

They have, they have, they're a, they're just shameless in their incorrect takes. It's, it's crazy. And they stated it as facts. Oh, yeah. Yeah, of course. They say, well, I mean, you know, that's the thing. It's like, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, the same with every bit of Husbar that they do every bit of like PR about how great Israel is.

It's like if you don't count, you know, the five million Palestinians living in apartheid, it is a democracy. Well, that's something that really bothers me about, I mean, this is also the left says this too, but like how there was peace before or like there was a period of peace between any of them at any point since Israel's creation, which is just simply not true because the peace in Israel is reliant on the occupation of an entire people. Yes. So I just really hate when anyone mentions, like, let's just go back to the way it was

or whatever it is. Pre-67, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's usually, you know, how it goes. And, yeah, no, people, the amount of like, there's levels to being deprogrammed from Zionism. there's multiple levels um like i think the beginner level is when you're like i'm for a two-state solution you know uh i'll end the occupation in the west bank and in the gaza strip you know

and like that is like that's something that's like you're just like um you're like a baby anti zionist like you're not an anti zionist you know you're just like um you're just a baby um and And then, you know, and you see like who's real and who's not based on where they claim occupation is happening because they don't want to talk shit about Zionism, but they'll say, yes, the occupation is bad. And of course, I agree the occupation is bad. The occupation, though, if you are not including the ethnic cleansing of 1948 in your analysis, of the crimes committed by Israel, then you are living in this, like, fantasy world in which everyone is, you know, like, yeah,

everyone was peaceful before 1967. It was just like, you know, oh, the Arabs will go to war, and then, you know, how Arabs are. Turin, you know, they're always going to war. That's awesome. That's you guys. You always saying, al-Hu Akbar,

and stuff, and we're just like, hey. That's a different fucking bone I have to pick with everybody because for some reason, every Arabic phrase is now terrifying to people, and it makes me so angry. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, no, I mean, it's true. It's just like you can't say fucking algebra anymore without someone trying to call you anti-Semitic.

Wait, okay, you reminded me of something that, oh, yeah, okay. I watched this documentary called Tentura. Have you seen Tentura from 2022? too. No, I'm not seen Tentura. So you might have seen clips of it. Maybe I saw clips of Tentura. It's been going around a little bit just because they interviewed, the director interviews these ex-Israeli soldiers who fought in the Nekba, and they're very candid about how

they killed everyone in this town of Tentura and how it was really, like, rich. And then there's a guy that, like, is laughing about how his friend raped a 16-year-old girl. Right. You know, I have seen those clips. Yeah. So the actual documentary was interesting because it's really good. And, well, most, I mean, I wish they had more Palestinian voices, but I'm going to get to that in a second because I didn't know anything about the director until I looked him up.

And in his words, he is the biggest Zionist ever. And it really confused me because the whole point of the film is to make Israel acknowledge that the Nekba happened and that they did do an atrocity and then to move on. and that's where the line is for him. I'm a Zionist. I can't condemn these old men because, in his words, they're like my grandparents. But if we can just like build a monument to commemorate the people we killed,

we'll do a land acknowledgement. Yeah, we can just like end this once for all. It's like actually, no, it's not going to end with a fucking statue. Yes. This is, I think, one of the things. It really made me mad. No, I would be furious too. because then you're just like it'd be like talking about um you know like I think we need to acknowledge

what we've done to the Native American population like you know a year before the trail of tears you know what I mean it's like or like it's like if as it's happening as it's happening it's like if Christopher Columbus's son who was like throwing blankets of fucking smallpox on any of these and going like man you know we really gotta say like we've done some bad stuff in the past man

but it's all in the past that's the important thing to remember like there's like this this desperate need in Israel you know it's like oh we're we're good now even if we were bad before we're good now and it's like no you're You're not.

Yeah, because you will never be good. Yeah. Well, that's the thing. It's because you are, you are still mid-ethnic cleansing. Yeah. You know, like the, and, and you've added apartheid on top of that. And I think this is like something that like Israelis desperately desperately want is to fast forward to the part where they are America and they can do a land acknowledgement and they can do fucking, you know, reservation.

and give Palestinians casinos. They want to fast forward to that part. And the problem is, is they are still mid-ethnic cleansing. And it's not to, you know, I'm not, America is not off the hook by any means for being, you know, America is the biggest, toughest thug on the block who is responsible for, I mean, you know, if you talk about-

I mean, the biggest terrorist organization in my book on the planet. The biggest terrorist organization, a worldwide terrorist organization. and, you know, so they're not off the hook by any means. The difference is, is that the, we are all personally on our phones watching the continued ethnic cleansing and people in Israel are just like, we just want to get to the part where we can pretend that we didn't want this. Had we been around, we would have stopped it. Can't we get there?

It's like peak, peak liberal fucking whining. bullshit. And it's, you know, it's one of the reasons I can't stand a liberal Zionist because you are like, you're trying to write the history of being sorry and humble while you still have a chance to do the right thing. Yeah. And for those I don't know, talking about the Nekba or just even, it's not allowed to be taught in schools. People in Israel are taught a very brainwashed, incorrect version of history where truly they're, they've never done anything wrong and the Arabs have always been bothering them. That is essentially what they learn. And so the liberal Zionists as far as this fucking, I don't want to, I mean, maybe this director is like this,

but it just feels like he took one step towards like good. We're being like, actually, we have to talk about the Nekba. It was a terrible thing we did. We have committed sins. Yes. But he's not going to leave Israel. He's not going to condemn the men that are glorifying rape and murder. He's not going to like, it's, it's truly just guilt. It's just like trying to absolve himself and be like, I'm one of the good ones. Yes. It's trying to absolve yourself from the guilt.

And it's trying to frame this as a thing of the past. The idea that the brutality was something that was. Like a one and done thing. Yeah, a one and done thing that was, you know, sadly necessary, but also so cruel and, you know. Okay, wait. He said that in the interview. He said it had to happen, like, basically. Like, it blew my mind because the documentary is, parts of it are really powerful.

And you hear these soldiers, like, being disgusting. And it's truly them showing their asses again, I guess, in a way. Yeah. But that's also part of it. It's like, well, it had to happen, but it was bad. I had almost the exact same experience recently with a book that I had read years ago by this Haaret's journalist name Ari Chavit. It's called My Promise Land. When I first read the book, it was like, I don't know, this was like maybe like a decade ago.

And I was still, you know, still in the baby phase of, you know. Well, you've been through all the phases. I've been through all the phases. Yeah. Now I'm now I'm in the phase where I'm in the like full anarchist phase where I just. I'm way too radicalized. I do not believe in states. And any status at this point to me is my moral enemy.

No, but like when I first read it, I was like wowed by kind of the candidness in which he would talk about the knackbook and and at which he would talk about brave. like the atrocities committed that he saw that he witnessed personally like in Gaza. He served in Gaza, you know, as part of the IDF. And, you know, he had thoughts of being like a conscientious objector slash, you know, going to prison and whatnot. But then he decided, you know, I, I want to be a journalist. I should go there and experience it and then write it down. And he in it, like he was, it was the most candidate I had ever heard in Israeli be about a Nazi comparison, you know, and he said that, you know, of course, you know, we're not the same, or he said, of course we are different

than the Nazis, but the problem is what I experienced there in Gaza is I realized we're not different enough. That it was the closest that I'd seen someone like just being real about the fact that like this, you know, ban on comparing anything to the Nazis, you know, with regards to Israel. It's like, this is the first time I'd see someone like take that and say, no, fuck that. And he's probably one of the only people that can do that. What's that? He's probably one of the only people that can do that. You know what I mean? Well, right. I mean, like, especially, you know, in Israeli, I think is like, you know,

I just had never seen that before. And, and I was like, you know, after the seventh, you know, I was like, I'm going to like revisit this fucking book. And I was reading it again. And I was like, wait a second. He was doing exactly what you're describing the director of this documentary doing. I realized as I, like at the time that I had read it the first time, I was still in the space where I was like, you know, Israel did what it, you know, Israel, what it did in the past was of course. awful, but what we really should be focusing on is 1967 and peace and all that. And then as I was like going through this book more and more, it was just like, well, what do you, what can you do with

these people as I was like getting? And I was like, wait a second. I agreed with this. And then and then I was like, but there's so many parts in it that were just like so like honest. And like, and like, and I was like, yeah. And then it would you would get to this part where you would just. he would just basically say that, you know, at the end of the day, it's, if it's them or us, it's got to be us. And I'm like, exactly. And then, uh, I was like, like, you know what? I'm going to fucking, is he on fucking Instagram?

And then I went on Instagram and, um, he did like a whole video talking about, um, like just all Hasbara talking points every single one, you know, on the seventh, uh, this happened and let me tell you about what Hamas is talking about Hamas as an agent is a you know is a terrorist organization that is committed yeah proxy for Iran committed to the destruction of all Jews of the world and I'm just like I can't believe this but he wrote the part in the book where you said not you said you were Nazis you said it in the book I mean I'm glad that was the takeaway you've had all these years, though. Yeah.

Yeah, no. I mean, the parts that rang, you know, that affected me were the parts that were, I think, honestly, the most honest. The ones you needed to hear at the time. Yeah. And then, you know, like, he had these, like, critiques of, like, Israeli peacnicks. And I took that as kind of, like, a critique of their ineffectiveness and why they were ineffective.

And, I mean, and it was. but I realized that what his critique was was that they weren't pragmatic enough and they weren't honest enough about the enemy that we're facing. I'm like, oh no, no. Oh, that's a big yikes. It's a big yikes, dog.

It's a big, because you realize that there's like the biggest and hardest hurdle, I think for a lot of, you know, Israelis is like coming to, the point where you are having to not only face, you know, the actions. Like, yeah. It's all shame. It's all.

It's all shame. But, but then having to not place it as something that only happened in the past and having to, you know, basically put yourself in a position, which, you know, you feel is an impossible position, which is to tell all your Israeli neighbors, like, uh, guys, this is apartheid, And it can't stand anymore. And the truth of it is is that, you know, we can't, we cannot sustain this without the end of what we deem as a Jewish state. And what they deem as a Jewish state, I think is the big problem here.

Because what they deem as a Jewish state is a state in which there's a population control. And I think you can't, that's completely unsustainable. You can fucking still be a, you know, a state. that has Jewish names and Jewish leaders and all that stuff and not have apartheid. You can still do that. Well, that is something that I really, I hate that they did this well, but Israel's flag is truly some of their greatest branding because it has, it has this holy symbol on it that so many people are deemed sacred.

I even deem it like somewhat sacred because like I recognize that it's powerful, you know? Yeah. It's a religious symbol. Yeah. So when you see that flag getting boycotted or burned or like when you see someone like put an X through it, it triggers something in people that don't know better and that's what they want. Like that's it's it's the most trigger something and kind of like people who care about things like, you know, not desecrating someone's religion. And the problem is, is that that is not actually what they're doing in the act of burning an Israeli flag, you know. I mean, the fact that they chose that for the flag is evil and ingenious and really infuriating because they've, they've forever entrenched themselves in a religion that they have nothing.

I mean, it's truly not about religion anymore. It's an ethno state that is, that was literally based in anti-Semitism from the start. Like Arthur Balfour hated Jews and didn't want him to come to Britain. So he was like, go here. Like that's Zionism. Yeah. Yeah. And it's also, you know, I think for me, I look at Zionism based on the excuses of the justifications for its existence by American Zionists specifically.

And that justification, well, let me just say this. I look at Zionism as defeatism. Zionism is absolutely defeatism. People justify in America, they justify the existence of Israel and the need for the existence of Israel as that place that we're going to need to go inevitably. One day, they're all going to come after us. It's going to happen. And we're going to need Israel, you know, to go to and to bail us out.

And to me, I look at the people who support, like, phrases by Biden, like, there's not one single Jew safe in the world without Israel. And supporting that and being like, well, he just understands his history. He just understands his history. He understands it. No Jew is safe. And I realize that I'm like, the question I guess I would pose to them is like, okay, if an anti-Semitic president came to power. and anti-Semitic Congress and, you know, sending all that stuff, and they

forcefully deported all Jews to Israel. Would that be a good thing? Or, because if you don't think that would be a good thing, it's because you're like, no, because I'm not, I live here. I'm being deprived of, you know, my land, my place or of birth,

my place where my fucking ancestors are, my mother, my father, my grandfather, you know, like, okay, so, To me, I look at this and I go, like, so if you, if you actually think that Israel's whole purpose, whole existence is for you to someday, you or your children, your grandchildren someday are going to have to go to, then you're a fucking defeatist. That is your way of saying that, like, at some point, no matter what, we're always going to be the victims. We're always going, they're always going to come after us, no matter fucking what. and I will defend my fucking contingency plan by any means necessary. It means it doesn't matter how many fucking Palestinians get killed.

I still will one day someone I'm related to is going to need to go there. And I'm like, that is fucking, it's not only disgusting for obvious reasons. You would let people die just in case. but I've never I've never thought of it this way so this is a really it's a great argument

because it's like I thought you guys were the chosen people and I thought also social justice is a big thing of the like you know Israel's whole fucking Husbarra plan you know

with trying to get liberal Americans is like we believe in social justice and I'm like you believe in it to an extent that you know you would let all these people die just to defend the idea that someday

you might need to fucking hide out because no matter what you do you're like you're giving up that's you giving up as a Jewish person all the tenets of Judaism to begin with oh of course of course it is pathetic yeah yeah but I'm just like I just I look at the like I'm giving up thing of like

of this contingency plan that we all have and I just look at it as like complete defeatism just complete fucking like no you know at some point we're just gonna there's nothing we can do about it they're gonna kick us out or try to kill us and I and I can't help but look at that and just be like I don't know how many of you actually believe that yeah it's a double-edged sword though because at the same time they're saying Arabs will always want to kill us and you know what I mean? Arabs will always be barbaric and evil and they will never change. So it's, we got to make sure that, you know, and that's like the worst part is that it's like,

okay, so wait. So, so someday the Nazis are going to take over America and they're going to fucking try to kill all the Jews. So then we're going to go over to Israel. And Israel is still unsafe because it is filled with, surrounded by Arabs who hate it. So are you saying we have to kill all the fucking Arabs in the Middle East so that we can be safe so one day when America becomes Nazi like there's

so many steps removed all to justify this if we're being honest this like fucking um you know this like club med this this this you know for Americans for American Zionists it's like this is a

fucking club an exclusive club that you don't want to let go of because you've made up some reasons in your head why it's necessary. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I think that's a great way to put it.

And I've never thought of it that way. And I'm going to think about that way from now on. But to go back to the idea that it ended, I think, or like it was like a one-and-done thing, people are for, like, it. And also like comparing it to the Holocaust, all that stuff. I think people don't realize that this is, the genocide didn't start two months ago. Right. It's been, it's been a slow genocide for almost a century. Yes.

Yes. Yes. And I mean, I By design. Why are we comparing atrocities? Like, that's the dumbest thing I've ever even hurt. Why do we do that? Why do we do that? It's like, we don't want to, like, really like, what is that game where it's like, but we had it worse. Okay, you guys suffered too, but why does that negate a almost century-long genocide? I'll tell you why. Because the whole, by design, the whole plan of Zionism with regards to taking over the land was supposed to be gradual

because it was the only way that they could justify it like Ben Gurian literally said in like you know those you know in his cadre were saying like the world is not going to like it if we just go in and you know fucking

we go to a holocaust essentially we got to our good Hasbro. Yeah. And it's they initially it was going to be about a just an immigration plan to eventually overwhelm the demographics there to. Also in their words, colonization. Yes. And in their words, colonization. And, you know, in order to overwhelm the population and and overtake them demographically. Once the state of Israel was then, you know, created, then it became. A war and it became they saw villages that they said in order for us to at least have a contiguous fucking strip of land here. We're going to have to do some massacres. We're going to have to fucking, you know, kill everyone in Dariazine. People are fighting us because we're taking their homes. Right. Right. Or we are, people are mad at us because the, the people who fled, we now own their homes. You know, framing as a war even then is fucking bullshit. Yes. Yes. It really

makes me mad at it. But to, to your point about like, you know, why, why this comparison, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the reason we didn't, uh, this is, uh, this is the reason we're trying to do it slowly is so that it can be palatable. And so, every time someone calls this a genocide, they get mad. They say, no, we're specifically not, we could if we wanted to kill. They will say this out loud. We could if we wanted to wipe them all out. That is an argument that I've seen too many times. They've literally said this. And they say it as just kind of like, well, see, we're not doing a genocide.

But what they're mad about is the fact that people are calling them on their fucking bullshit plan, which is to do this fucking ethnic cleansing and genocide. But slowly do it so it's palatable. And when people say, this is not. not palatable, they get mad about it because they're like, what the hell, man? Like, we're trying to do it like gentlemen. We're doing it like America did. We're trying to be nice about it. Like, we're not trying to fucking, we're not trying to do Nazi Germany. We're trying to do America. We will poison the native population. We will, we will deprive them of their rights and their freedoms. We will dehumanize them and call them savages. And we will, you know, turn the world again.

them and will kill them, you know, through guns and disease. Also using very similar tactics from the Holocaust, like... Well, of course they are. Yeah. I mean, they'll use the tactics. The one thing they avoid is the death camp, you know, the specific death camp machine. And they say, well, that means we can do whatever we want. As long as we're not doing that, it's like one of the things that I've been saying is, you know, they say things like, you know, they say things like,

Essentially what they're saying is like, hey, listen, it's not a genocide until we kill all of them. That's a crazy take. Once we kill all of them, then you can be mad. Another argument that is ridiculous is they always cite the population growth of Palestine being like, if it was a genocide, why are there so many Palestinians still being born? Yeah. Well, how come they're still having babies? And it's like that is not what a genocide is. Like, it's literally like, genocide is in my, in my view, based on the intent of the genocider.

Like that is where, that's the pinoc, that's where it starts. No, it is absolutely genocide. What is happening. I think the, the, the, with them, they are saying, uh, it's not a, it's not a Holocaust is what they're saying. They get triggered when we, they hear the word holocaust and Zionists get triggered when they, because people are calling Gaza an open air cause. concentration camp. And a lot of dynists find that offensive because how dare you compare that to actual concentration camps? It's not that bad. We have actively taken measures to make this palatable to you and you're not falling for it. That's why they're pissed. And that's true. It's really true. That's why this podcast exists. That is why it exists. But, you know, it also exists for this very last bit.

that I'm going to do. I like to do at the end of all these podcasts, a little palate cleanser. There's some great art. Do you remember there is a list guy? A list guy. He was the one who he went into, I think he was Al Shifa.

Oh, the list guy. Yeah. Hospital and he found the calendar. Yeah, the one with all the Hamas schedules. Yes. The hostages that they're guarding. Yes, yeah. This is a schedule of,

hostages were guarding uh yeah so um someone made this online and i just wanted to post it um play it for us here as a pallet cleanser to make us you know calm and feel good to go into this christmas not seething with fucking rage so i'll play some of it right now this list in arabic in our big in our big this list says Khamas Khamas Khamas

That's amazing That's amazing That's amazing some that's real that's good also i love that they included the the strong in the yeah yeah they did the israeli ha they did that i like that i like that that's really good that's yeah so shout out to the creator that i you know it was reposted so many times it didn't see who the originator was because twitter fucking sucks now and you can't see who did the original post um but whoever made that shout out to you uh and shout out

for that nice K-H sound at the beginning of Khamas. Shereen, thank you so much for coming on bad Hezbara and talking about some Hezbar with me. That was a nice vending session, so you're welcome. And thank you for having me. Oh, yeah. Thank you for coming on. You're wonderful.

People can listen to you on Ethnically Ambiguous. Is that right? Yes, they can listen to me ethically ambiguous. I also am one of the rotating hosts of It Could Happen Here. and I'm also a filmmaker but like in quotes because I haven't made a film in a while so well listen yeah art sometimes is a process yeah actually I made one this year I don't know why I'm being so annoying yeah what are you doing um my point is you're a filmmaker that doesn't matter actually no no no that doesn't matter I think my takeaway is just to have people keep talking about

Palestine and yeah, follow accounts and Palestinians that are sharing what's happening. I think that is what all of our responsibility as consumers of social media right now is to not let it become something that we used to talk about.

100%. I completely agree. And that is one of the reasons I want to, the many reasons that I started this podcast. It's because Because I feel like we have short attention spans, and I worry that people will, you know, move on. And personally, I don't want that. Because at the end of the day, I love Palestinians. I love, you know, people.

It's human to care. Like, it's a human thing to care. And I think a- I like alive children so much. Like I have a child and if I have to see she's really cute she's really fucking cute and I if I have to see one more dead child I'm I'm going to set myself on fire so no no I won't do that but you know it's yeah but desire will be there point is I'm so grateful for you and I'm grateful for the stuff that you guys have been talking about I'm very grateful for you I hope you know that I think you're one of

a few people that has been able to like make me laugh during all of this stupidness because it's like, oh, you're like swirling through fucking Instagram, this black hole of hell. Hell. And then I get to one of your videos and it's like, Matt's doing his thing again. Great. Thanks. Well, I appreciate it. I'm glad. And also, I really do think anti-Zionist Jewish people are essential to the liberation of Palestine. So I think I'm really grateful. for you as well yeah well thank you i appreciate that i i i think the fact that we're essential uh i don't i mean i don't necessarily think that we are essential but i guess what i mean is uh i i'm always made uncomfortable by that idea just because of the fact that it's it's because

israel is so good at making anyone who is not jewish feel scared yeah uh that they will be called out for anti-Semitism that it really is incumbent upon Jewish people of conscience conscience in this you know in the diaspora and in Israel it's incumbent on us to say shit

because we are the only ones who that accusation of anti-Semitism doesn't stick to as well we still get it but now you're not Jewish though but now you're not really you're going to be excommunicated yeah that's the thing I mean the truthfully I'm a secular Jew I'm only

Jewish enough to displace a Palestinian family if I wanted to. And that is not Jewish enough for everyone who's a Zionist, but for some reason Jewish enough for the Zionist state of Israel. So that is the contradiction we live in. I guess what I meant by Essential, this is like a little disclaimer. No, no, no, of course. No, no, yes. Is that I think it's really important to have people unpack how they unlearned Zionism.

100%. I agree with you. Gabor Mate, has that how you say his name? Yeah, Gabour Matte. He's one of the most powerful speakers, Gabor. He's like, he talks about this so eloquently and emotionally and well because he knows how terrible it is. And he's unlearned it and he's felt the same things that you have felt. Yes, yes. And at the end, he's a whole, a survivor. Shout out to his son Daniel, who I spent Hanukkah with this year.

he did a little Hanukkah thing he was flew over to Los Angeles and we hung out and had a nice little anti-Zionist Hanukkah not scheduled but my cat is getting into my desk so this could be the ending oh let's I love ending with a cat well thanks everyone so much for listening thank you shereen for coming on thank you kitty cat for being adorable uh Patreon.com slash fraudcast fraudcast at gmail.com if you want to email us with any questions comment and concerns. F-R-O-T-C-A-S-T at gmail.com. For those you were just listening to this podcast, no listen to any of the other ones, you're probably confused as to why the email address is named after Frotage.

But subscribe to the Patreon and find out. All right, everyone. Thanks again so much for listening. And until next time, there is a list. Jumping Jacks was us. Push-ups was us. We've got us, all karate us, Takey Molly us, Michael Jackson, us, Yamaha keyboards, us, Georgia binks on us, Andor was us, Heath Ledger Joker us, endless fed success,

Happy Meals was us, McDonald's was us, Being Happy Us, Beacon Yoga us, eating food, us, breathing air, us, drinking water us. That shit.