Bad Hasbara - The World's Most Moral Podcast - Bad Hasbara 25: Ashkie Morons, with Hadar Cohen

Episode Date: May 2, 2024

Hey all,Sorry about the wait but here is the new episode! THE VIDEO WILL BE LIVE TOMORROW AFTERNOON!Daniel Maté is at Matt's LA studio along with guest Hadar Cohen for a conversation about student protests and the Zionist erasure of Arab Jews.Hadar Cohen is an Arab Jewish scholar, mystic and artist whose work focuses on multi-religious spirituality, politics, social issues, and community building. She is the founder of Malchut, a spiritual skill-building school teaching Jewish mysticism and direct experience of God. She teaches and consults in a variety of settings and formats, from one-on-one coaching to online group classes and in-person retreats.  Her podcast, Hadar’s Web, features community conversations on spirituality, healing, justice, and art. Hadar is a 10th-generation Jerusalemite with lineage roots also in Syria, Kurdistan, Iraq and Iran. Subscribe to her Substack for access to her latest writings, offerings, and media appearances. hadarcohen.me or malchut.one.  // @hadarcohen32Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/bad-hasbara/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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Olive garden us. White foster us. Zabrahamas. As far as us. Hello and welcome to Bad Hasbara, the world's most moral podcast. My name is Matt Lieb, and I will be your co-host for this podcast. Thank you so much for listening. And to those of you out there watching on the YouTube channel, thank you.

This must be very exciting for you, for those of you who are not watching and you are listening like good little boys and girls. Thank you. Keep listening. You don't need to watch our faces, but if you happen to be watching, you would know that I am in person with Daniel Mate and our guest today. So, hi, Daniel. How did I get here? How did I get here? It's talking to. Are we doing? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Nice. Same as it ever was. No, one minute I was sitting in my apartment in Brooklyn. Yeah. Just sipping ironic coffee. And suddenly I was in sunny Los Angeles. Los Angeles. Yeah. So I am actually joined here by my co-host.

This is the second time he has visited the home studio here in undisclosed location in Los Angeles. Is it West L.A.? Is it East L.A.? You'll never know, you fucking weirdos. I do not want my address out there. You know, I'm now living at a time in my life where I cannot give, well, it's not like I used to give my address out. Yeah. But ever since I started this podcast, I was like, I think I need to get.

one of them like delete me accounts where it like takes away all your private info highly recommend. I was recommended delete me from a friend who gets doxed a lot and was like this works out well ever since I got it never doxed again. I just signed up for the cancel me app. Oh you're trying to get canceled. Well what it does is it puts horrific things it quotes you like it it just invents it's an AI bot that invents horrible things you said that should never be said by anyone. And just make sure that no one will ever, it's a great way to just take the pressure off of being a, I mean, an influencer. I think it's, I think it's a great idea because that way you flood the market with horrible things that you have said, even if you haven't said them. And then you can be like, oh, no, I didn't say that.

The AI made me do slurs. Exactly. And then people won't be able to distinguish the real from the fake. It's actually a very Israeli way of handling this. You flood the market with horrible things. And you can't keep track of it. One day, starting a war with Iran, next day, mass graves next to a hospital in Gaza. It's like, which one am I mad about?

It also gives you a sort of place to start from so that the rest of your career is about doing better. That's right. And being the sort of most improved player. Yeah, yeah. Everyone, you know, can give you credit for trying. I think I want my career to be the one where I have, like, out of every, you know, celebrity, because, you know, let's face it, we're celebrities. let's just admit it let's just admit it like what's the point in denying it any further so we are in i mean yeah listen we're in los angeles dreams are made of we're basically halfway there all we need

now is people to know who we are but uh you know i want to i recognized you when i walked in the door yeah well usually people i who have seen me before are like hey i know you're a celebrity in my life well that's not i like that yeah yeah i'm like my mom's favorite celebrity um but uh you're by Mom's favorite celebrity, too. I'm sorry. But yeah, no, maybe, what if I had the most apology apps, you know, like No Tap Apologies? Like, that was my claim to fame. Like, this guy has apologized so many times.

He's really, really. He's sorry. He's really accountable. Or as you would say. Sorry. Sorry. Let's introduce our guest. Our guest today here at the home studio in Los Angeles is an Arab Jewish scholar.

mystic and artists whose work focuses on multi-religious, spirituality, politics, social issues, and community building. She is a 10th generation Jerusalemite with lineage roots also in Syria, Kurdistan, Iraq, and Iran. Ladies and gentlemen, everyone else, Hadar Cohen is here. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast. I'm so excited to have you on. I've been wanting to have you on for a while now, And I never in my wildest dreams could have imagined. I would have both you and Daniel here at the same time.

Well, dreams do come true. They do. It's L.A. baby. City of angels. City of angels. City of sometimes you podcasts in person with people. So thank you for coming here. Have you guys, have you guys been doing?

What have you guys been up to? Have you guys gone to any, I don't know, protest recently? Checked out the USC encampment yesterday. Nice. That was really sweet. I haven't gotten over to UCLA yet, but we were there at a pretty quiet moment at USC. And the people seemed to be like just hanging tough, as the new kids in the block suggested. There was a guy giving a self-defense workshop to about five people who were listening,

but very, very specific directions for dealing with cops and things like that. Oh, that's good. art for sale there was food on offer yeah i felt it was really inspiring to see how they just created a village you know where different needs can be met they had you know a medic support they had a book library where people can donate books can learn the rafat alir memorial library oh what really is was that man that's cool yeah i love they had beautiful signs all over they had free palestine and different languages nice so just the diversity of also the groups of students who were coming through it was really beautiful to see now that it is nice to see um you know diversity

but is it really diversity if there's no Zionist representation at these encampments you know yeah these people are basically zerps you know Zionist exclusionary radical palest that's exactly right that's that's a hundred percent right they are zerps are you pushing for like a DNI campaign that's I absolutely I absolutely am I think that until until we represent all sides of an issue then everyone should be arrested everyone should go to jail

so Hadar we met I've known of you for a long time and we've met once before at we all did Hanukkah together and actually you know before that I knew you from the speech you gave at the protest in Hollywood

when you shut down Hollywood classic you gave such a beautiful speech and it was super heartfelt and very funny and I could only hear your voice. I didn't see you. Oh, cool. But I was like, who's that comedian? Yeah, and you know, people have been asking the same question to this very

day. You must have been pretty far back in the crowd because this guy's tall. I know, you would have figured. Tallest Jew on the block. Literally. Well, we did shut down Hollywood, Boulevard, which was really, it was pretty cool. It was pretty great. That was a great protest because I came in there in the group that was like, we're going to get arrested. And we had meeting, you know, like a Zoom meeting with a lawyer.

And we were like, oh, man, you know, we got to just be ready. Make sure you don't have all your stuff on you. You got to come in with just your ID, you know, not even your phone. And then it rained. And then about, I don't know. Yeah, the rain was pretty bad. I think maybe around 10. It was not even 10.

It was a reasonable time. It was like eight. You actually need to update the theme song. precipitation us. Yeah, exactly. Allergic to wet clothes, us. Yeah, after a while, the organizer said, well, you know, guys, we did great.

We did so good. Palestine freedom, like this close. But we got to not all get sick, which I actually very much appreciated. Self care. Self care is important. But, you know, recently, you know, if you've been watching the news, which I have,

You've noticed some people who are not so lucky, specifically at college campuses all over this country. And they're getting rained on with other substances and objects. Yeah, like that skunk spray and rubber bullets. Oh, and actual rodents? Yeah, actual rodents. I mean, it seems like the people who are getting the brunt of, you know, the violence that's happening is literal children. And when I say children, I guess I mean college kids, who I don't know about you guys, but I consider college kids to be kids. And it has been an interesting, I would say, week and a half.

And so we recorded this podcast. The last time we record together was with Bassam. Yes. We had a great Bassem episode. And I was like, oh, this is, you know, I think at the time Columbia had just started to kind of come up in the news. There was a lot of news about shy Davidai, who I don't know if I'm pronouncing his name right. Dobby Dai, probably. I don't care.

Shy, he's a bad guy. I've been trying to come up with like a pointer sister's. Shy by. Shut up shy. You know, he's so shy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That haven't quite nailed it yet. Yeah, there's something there.

But yeah, so, and I remember when this was happening, I was thinking, oh, man, you know, more. you know fodder you know this is this guy is hilarious this guy is just custom made to be in the bad hasbera in the pantheum yes uh he is he is you say pantheum i said pantheon in my head but i said in my mouth pantheum yeah i i wondered if i said it in my mind pantheum but i definitely said it in my mouth in my panthe mouth and um am i embarrassed by it yeah but we're gonna move on amicably because sometimes i speak bad am i being a shitty uh no you're not no you're not someone someone close to me complimented me for being such a good scene partner to you and i really appreciate that that's a very specific thing a scene partner

it is but i i've always had interrupting cow syndrome and like and you know like you started this why am i bigging myself up let's go yeah yeah yeah but it was just i i it made me happy because i think i just love our i just love our broship you know i love it too too, and feel free to big up yourself anytime you want. Same with you, Adar. Well, thank you for inviting me into the broship. Yeah, yeah. I like, right now the vibe is like, we're here right in between and we're just like,

you're pushing us to try to get us not to kiss. But like emotionally, then again, who knows, but. I mean, listen, if you guys want to go for it, there's faith. I just realized I also, I spelled your name wrong in the, it says Danil. Daniel. Danil. Daniel. Do you know.

if you move the two of the vowels in my name it spells denial oh shit that's deep you ever think about that well i guess you're the one who told me i i i absolutely deny that i ever think about all right fair enough i think he does uh where were we so where were we we were we were the last time we the last time we recorded it and so we were you know i i was thinking you know next week we'll have you know a couple things to talk about i feel like since we last recorded so much news has happened um that I like couldn't keep it straight I mean we've had the it's only been I think maybe less than two weeks of non-stop media coverage around these student protesters and yet I feel like behind you know and and so I feel like for our audience at

this point we've been people have been asking over and over again you know like when are you guys going to talk about this and I was like it's only been three days just keep waiting and now at this point I just have it's like I have too many things to talk about yeah it's it speaks to I think you know Hidar was just talking about the importance of these protests and how good it is to see the fact that the entire nation has been focused if focused in distorted ways depending on what outlets are getting this from but these kids are changing the conversation Yeah. And I'm sure many of them would prefer that the focus be on Gaza where they're trying to get it. I've heard many of them say that. But still, like, there's something about, have you ever seen a student protest movement, have this kind of impact? Well, I think student activism definitely pushes American politics. I mean, and if nothing else, right, even just showing the people of Palestine, which it has, you know, reached people in Gaza to see the encampments and to see like, wow, there's people out there who are still pushing for this. and, you know, publicly and putting their bodies on the line, like, I think there's something

really profound there. And yeah, I mean, you know, I think I hear what you're saying, Matt, about the overload of information, but I see that as a good thing because that means that a lot is happening and a lot is shifting. And so many people are finding an outlet to express their rage and frustration and to take action. And may that just continue. Yeah, I mean, I see it as a as a positive for sure. And I think the here's the issue that I've been having recently was so after about six months, I would say, you know, it's been six months, longer than six months of this total atrocity happening before our very eyes. I feel like I started to see people finally get tired of the same old. post 9-11 frenzy, Islamophobic, you know, Arab, anti-Arab racist, Hezbara.

And we started to, I felt like there were, even in corporate media, there started to be some pushback. It was like we had reached some sort of critical mass where at some point people just said like, okay, well, maybe we can ask one question about whether or not Israel should always kill anyone they decide they want to kill and and we saw that and you know I have an example of something that I saw in um again this is uh same random woman from sky news who I don't know who she is and everyone who's from England is like she's bad except for this I don't know why but this is an example of the interview with David Cameron no this is an interview with I'm not even sure what the

it'll say in the thing but just watch this pushback about the mass graves. Who do you think those bodies are? Probably terrorists. How do you think these people died? In gun battles with Israel. Why do you think some of the bodies were fine with ties around their hands?

Well, because we probably arrested the terrorists. And then killed them. Well, I don't know if the terrorists fall back. I wasn't there. Just to clarify with their head. With their their foremen? Yeah, well, here's the thing. Terrorists have a lot of different ways of hurting you. Sometimes they do it with a gun or a bomb.

Sometimes they do it with just a really deep stare. You know, terrorists are like the bad guys in WWE wrestling. You know, you're playing by the rules. Yeah. You know, by your own military's ruling it. And then they'll just, you know, you'll get their manager to distract the referee and then they'll just break out a chair. And, you know, these guys are probably headbutting them with their hands tied behind.

That's not fair. Exactly. If I'm going to tie your hands behind your back, sit. still while I shoot you exactly you can't expect the terrorists not to figure out a way to do a suplex slam even with their hands tied by their back because they are the heel they are absolutely the heel that's right and no one ever breaks k-fabe that this woman I think is the mayor of Jerusalem yes I believe it is the mayor of Jerusalem I recognize her no yeah like it from around but to continue this pushback is interesting because it is actually

uh someone there the anchor is not even debating whether it's right or wrong so much so much as the uh what like how does one die in a mass grave with their hands behind their back and it be a justified kill yeah and i think british media people have a certain kind of uh intellectual pride in a sense. They're often intellectually very dishonest, but there is a threshold of you're insulting my intelligence now. Yes, yes, 100%. I think that is completely right,

where it's like, listen, you can do whatever crimes you want, but they have to abide by the laws of physics. That's right. You have to, if you fuck with Sir Isaac Newton, a man who has been knighted, then you fuck with our British pride, you know? Yeah, I mean, and also the added thing where it's like if you're labeled a terrorist, then anything that happens to you is acceptable.

And the bar to being labeled a terrorist is actually quite well. Yeah, it's almost non-existent. So they're like, we are allowing you to do this. But you have to at least abide by the laws of physics here. And she goes on to push back further. With their hands tied behind their backs. Well, we don't know what they were doing before their hands are hide behind their backs, do we? No, but if you've managed to cable tie them, they should.

Yes, and they shouldn't simply find them dead, should we? Again, we're just conjecturing. Maybe his friend threw a grenade, and then what happens? Maybe there was a missile. Maybe they threw a roll. Sounds like a lot of fantasy world. There's a lot of things that could have happened in her mind that make it make sense to have a bunch of people who have clearly been executed with their hands tied by.

No, that's just the thing that's so frustrating about this discourse is that it's so often rooted in fantasy and people's imagination of what might. have happened as a vote to what actually is happening. Yes. And just the inability of the media to just reckon with what is actually happening. Yes. And usually, you know, I think we've seen multiple times these ridiculous claims that don't follow even the laws of time.

Like in this case, the law of time would say like, well, so hands tied behind the back and then die, not die, and then hands tied behind the back. Is that what you're saying? But, you know, usually you don't see pushback, even if it's among the more ridiculous accusations. Well, look, it's the Israeli occupation. They can do what they want. They can reverse the law.

It's like, you know, memento time. That's right. On that side of the Greenland. That's right. Also, Israel's dropped enough chemical weapons on the Palestinians that it's plausible that a terrorist could grow a third arm to throw Iraq, like spontaneously. You don't know. They don't have potable drinking water.

They could have been bitten by a radioactive Goro and grew two extra arms and Mortal Kombat reference. Oh, I thought Goro was a Zelda reference. I was thinking, you remember the guy had four arms? I never played mortal, I never played the street fighting games. I only played like Bubble Bobble, Tetris, and the Mario games. These two come from a P-Snick family. Yeah, I'm a, I'm a pixelated pussy. Okay.

But so we started to see this kind of, you know, more and more, even like CNN, who is literally there have been multiple news stories and leaks about how they were getting notes from the top about how they were to talk about Gaza in a way that was clearly favorable towards Israel. And it felt like things were, I don't know, maybe changing gears. Maybe I'm also naive, and I realize this. But then, you know, something happened. And the thing that happened was college students started being like, this is bad. And once again, we're back to this narrative of anti-Zionism as anti-Semitism.

Once again, we're back to every bad faith argument that we've heard, you know, not just for the last six months, but for years if you've been in this fight for East. I want to kill us. are being Jewish. Yes, they want to kill us for being Jewish. We are being targeted in our college campuses. All these Jewish students coming in with their matzah and their Seder and their Hagadas and their Shabbat candles as a weapon to kill. It's a killed Jews. To kill the Jews with tokenism. Right. Yeah, exactly. They're trying to kill us with imposter syndrome. But yeah, I mean, And you've been seeing this concerted effort, you know, to now demonize these kids. And it's like caught on in, it's for the, not the first time, but for I feel like, it's the most

powerful connection to a culture war thing that we've had in a while. The last six months, they tried the, we hate Arabs culture war thing. And people were like, you know, I felt like almost most. people being like if you weren't being paid to say it or you weren't ideological uh you an ideological Zionist you weren't really buying it um and now we are back to oh college kids are complaining about shit that's my favorite thing to complain about college kids beast snowflaking yeah exactly never mind the fact that the entire argument on the other side is a jewish student went home and had a nightmare about being unsafe.

Like Jewish students' subjective feelings. And I'm not saying that there haven't been moments where someone might have been right to, like, these are messy things, you know? But in terms of the whole right wing, we talked about this before, free speech industry for the past 10 years has been, oh, college students and their feelings, feelings aren't facts.

But when it comes to the feelings of Zionist Jewish students. Right. those feelings are sacrosynced and mandate massive crackdowns. Yeah. Well, what also just bothers me is that college students, college places are spaces of education. Yes. And what's more educational than students literally showing up and taking action right now and countless ways, right? Obviously, the political education that it takes to, you know, stand up, but then also the organizing

education, like the way that they organize these encampments, like that is actual education. And, you know, for me, I feel, you know, I was, it's inspiring because a lot of my activism was started when I was in college and we did an occupation in our campus that was a place of education for us to learn about international political struggle. Yeah. And that is to me where, you know, you can get awakened to justice issues and that's what colleges can provide people. So tell me about that. You, as someone who is, you know, radicalized on a college campus, someone who became Hamas on campus. Not in Jerusalem, but in New York. Yeah. So, well, tell me, so first I wanted to, where did you grow up?

So I grew up in Jerusalem, and when I was 10, we moved to New Jersey. Okay, okay. So Jerusalem, Jersey, you know, it's always. The Jerusalem Jersey pipeline. Yeah, exactly. You know that in like the hip-hop world, they call New Jersey, or maybe it's Newark, but they call it New Jerusalem. Oh, really? Yeah, that's the nickname for a jersey.

Well, there we go. I was just following the path. Is it because there's a lot of Jews? No, it's more. It's actually the black Muslims. I thought you were going to ask if it was because of me. Yeah. In honor of you, you're on the flag.

Yeah. But yeah, I mean, like, listen, I love, you know, stories of reverse Aaliyah. That sounds great. So you moved from Jerusalem to New Jersey. Jersey. You made, you know, like a soprano's version of Alia. And was it not until college that you started? Like, what were you occupying for when you were in college? What was I? Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. Well, so I went to Cooper Union, which is a small school in New York that has a very long history of student activism in so many ways. And, you know,

actually I was so disinterested in American universities. I didn't apply to any universities except for Cooper because I just was so not into the American dream of higher education and the way that it's just so entrenched with capitalism and militarization and imperialism and just really manipulating students in their minds. What do you think went wrong in your middle and high school education that you didn't that I didn't have that? That you didn't believe in the American dream and you hated freedom. Yeah.

I mean, I will say, oh, my God, I will say, I mean, definitely in the beginning I had some, like, I mean, I ended up in L.A., so I clearly had some level of, like, American dream. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And stuff in my psyche. But, I mean, I think I was always really interested in intelligence, and I just never found Americans to be quite smart. I don't know. Well, I mean, you were in New Jersey. Let's be fair. Yeah, that's fair.

But even, I mean, I think, like, the intellectualism that was coming out of universities, fall. at such a low scale. And I think honestly, part of that is coming from an Arab Jewish lineage where like our bar for intellectualism is actually super high. Yeah. Even though we're constantly degraded and said,

like we're barbaric and our traditions are shit and all of that. Like, you know, American education systems are actually like, they don't feel to be that rigorous to me. I mean, listen, I learned lots of smart things in America. American education system. I learned do math. How far of math did you get? Like advanced algebra

style? 12th grade math. Okay. That's what it's called. I can count to 12. Do math until you don't absolutely have to anymore. Do math. I do math and know when to stop. I had TIA 83 plus. Okay. I learned I learned read book. I started a math business, you know, when I was in high school. A math business. Yeah, that's how I. Wait, what's a math? business. Well, I would just like tutor people and, you know, support them in their learning of math skills. I love that. Especially other women, actually. Oh, I'm not, I'm not good at math. Yeah. Well, it's the American education. You can blame it on. Well, the Brits have an unfair advantage because for them it's maths. Yeah, exactly. They learn more than one. They have more of the math. Yeah, they learn

plural. We literally learn one math. That's all the math we know. Anyways, like, for me, I think I was very, like Cooper was very attractive to me because A, it was just very rigorous. but it also had a history of political education, which was always something that I was looking for. You know, like for me, the development of the mind is one of the most profound thing you can invest in as a human. Sure.

And yeah, and then I got into Cooper and there's the most amazing four years of my life in so many ways. You know, it's a school that was free. So basically anyone who was accepted got free tuition and, you know, an American climate that's pretty radical. I mean, yeah, that's just not a thing. Yeah, and it does create a certain, like, quality of egalitarianism amongst the students, right?

Because there's no, like, oh, these are the rich kids. We're all there on the same scholarship. Yeah. So anyways, in the second year, the administration announced that they're charging tuition or half tuition. And then the students rebelled and revolted. And we just took the streets and we're like, hell fucking no. Oh, I love that. You know, Peter Cooper, who founded the school, one of his line was that education should be free as air and water.

I love that. Yeah. So anyways, then we basically took over the president's office. We occupied it, I think, for like three or four months. Wow. It was the longest occupation in student history. Wow. We just camped out there.

We did so many protests. I mean, it was also post-occupy Wall Street. So a lot of the Occupy energy kind of moved to Cooper as a focus. And we got just trained on so much. like Occupy Wall Street people were supporting us and yeah we got the media there all the time Wall Street Journal New York Times were always on campus like interviewing students we were like just building all these connections with students all over it was a really inspiring time we would have like governance meetings I was I was one of the leaders I would like run a lot of the meetings

and it was just really fun it was like at 10 p.m. to like you know sometimes 2 a.m. 3 a.m. we would just like stay up organize, read radical literature, inform ourselves, like learn about so many different struggles. Palestine came up. We did some workshops about Palestine too through that. So, so, you know, when I hear this about like you guys kind of taking your education into your own hands and like, you know, it sounds like what you were doing is, and I think anyone who's a student who's or who has ever been a student and has been involved in any kind of activism can relate to this. What you're doing is not just fuck it around for funzies because you're mad at dad or because you're just mad at America or whatnot. It sounds like you are actually taking your education to your own hands.

And it's also not what a lot of students in elite schools are doing, which is going there consciously to set yourself up to be part of the power structure. to join the, you know what I'm saying? No, I mean, it was so, I remember, and the faculty were also supporting us. We had amazing faculty who, and I remember one professor of mine said to me, you know, you're getting a double education because not only are you getting your degree, but you're also getting this education around political activism and organizing, which feels so critical and so important.

And, you know, later on in my life, when I meet people who didn't have that experience in colleges of being politically activated, you know, they are behind. I'm not going to lie, you know, and then they need to catch up and they need to learn and they need to read books and they need to go to workshops, which are all great things to do. But, you know, I think that part of what, yeah, and looking at the encampments today, like I think what's inspiring there is that, you know, the American kind of college campus experience, like, of course, it can be fun, but also it can be very dry and very rigid. You just like wake up, you go to the class. But when you create a village, when you create a community, when you create purpose, where people are showing up for a particular thing. You're connected across, you know, the U.S., maybe even across the globe.

It gives you so much motivation. And, you know, I was, I barely slept during that time and I was happy about it. It wasn't because I was, I was so dedicated to the cause. And it's like there's something in that that awakens. And I think that that is really the model of education that, which is very community oriented, you know. 100%. And, you know, it's interesting, you know, you, you're bringing this. up because it just flies in the face and you know you see this at the these

college campus protests it flies completely in the face of the narrative what's of what's going on here which is outside agitators they talk about outside agitators are coming in here and they hate Jews and they've found a reason to you know to publicly display their hatred of Jews behind the mask of anti-Zionism or whatnot, which they claim is anti-Semitism anyway, so I don't even know why they bring that up. But, and what I've been noticing, number one, I've noticing what you're saying, which is that people who are there, and I tell this to people who are scared of, like, what are these kids doing? And I will say, I've talked to a lot of older people who, when it comes to

college campuses, they are immediately, whatever, you know, progress we made about like, hey, no, the anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism, we're actually, you know, whatever progress we made completely they've backslid. And they're just like, well, what are these kids talking about? Are these boomers? Boomers, yes. I'm sure these are people who look back on the Columbia protests of 1968 against the Vietnam War with a certain degree of generational pride.

You'd think that that would cross over. But that would take not watching 24-hour news networks for the rest of your days until you're dead and eating pudding. Yeah. See also. I hope I die before I get old. Yeah. See also. I hope I did. Exactly. But, you know, I've been seeing, obviously, these, you know, people talking about this as if, like, these kids are either not kids, they're outside agitators, or they're just, like, there for, you know, shits and giggles. kids are stupid and they just want to like you know shirk their education and they're just doing it to piss off their parents um so what was it about your parents that you hated so much when you're doing yeah it really came from family trauma you know um no i mean i just want to say that i think that's it's like the youth are have so much passion and even for me you know like there's days

where i'm just like oh damn i'm getting older i don't have as much energies i had in my younger 20s to like fuck shit up you know i know like we did like like some crazy as things when we were, you know, had that energy. And I think that is amazing that that college students have that and they should follow that courage and change it. And I think that, you know, like something that's been really frustrating in a lot of justice spaces in the U.S. for a long time is that it feels like there's been a huge shadow around challenging American imperialism. Yes. Right? There's all these conversations around racial justice, gender justice, economic justice, like even land back movement in, you know, the U.S. where we're sitting,

but sometimes I felt like there was this gap around understanding American imperialism. Right. And I think part of what the encampments are doing and are bringing that as an issue, I mean, obviously centered around what's happening in Gaza and Palestine, but it's all connected. Yeah, that's the beauty of focusing on disclosure and divestment. Yeah. I mean, and speaking of which, the fact that they have clear demands is something that, contemporary justice movements have at times failed to do.

Yeah, including Occupy Wall Street, you know, there were, there were demands, but it was also like, you know, one of the biggest critiques of it, even from people within it, was that they weren't clear in their demands. Yeah, like dismantled capitalism is not a demand. It's not, it's a vision. It's a vision. And you can do, make demands in service of it. But, you know, and this is, this is going to sound so.

Obama-ish but don't boo vote what's that don't boo vote don't boo vote yeah ladies take a break yeah yeah yeah when they go low you go low yeah you go lower when they go low you get you get high you get sanctimonious oh yeah no but you know politics being the art of the possible not in the sense of how the sausage is made and all that Hamilton-esque bullshit but I'm talking about the musical which is I got to admit very well It's well written. It's well written. It's extremely well written.

I'm not a lib, but you can't spell live without Lieb or one of the other ways around. Neo-Liberalism. Yeah. That's good. We already had Liebenshround. Yeah, but neoliberalism is my new favorite. But, but I mean, I think it was Finkelstein who, who was channeling Gandhi here that what you want to do in politics is to sort of set your sights on what's the farthest potential position you can take that can win a broad public.

Yes. And then go for that. Yeah. You know, and. Yeah. I mean, it's also, I think it is important to have people, you know, I, I, who you were talking about, like, the people who get, like, so scared because they're like, oh, God, chaos is going to, and what are we going to do?

Right. Like, the level of fear response around things going out of order, as opposed to, like, seeing that is actually liberating, that the chaos can actually bring a different way of being and sometimes chaos is actually quite necessary and sometimes it's also necessary for people to be very very radical you know even in a way that maybe I don't agree with them but they're pushing something yes and I and they have a role there you know so it's not just like sometimes I feel like there's this sense of like oh let's get the broadest movement and let's say the things that will win the broadest people and at the same time it's like yeah let the people

who want to go all the way go all the way so then people are pushed you know absolutely But the collective movement itself, these encampments, I just love that their demands are so specific, so attainable, so measurable, you know, and so reasonable. And as you said, they bring together all the important threads that can so easily get missed, the military industrial complex, the privatization of universities, and the complete ideological and infrastructural capture of, American elites by Israel yes and that whole you know the whole Israel industrial complex yeah yeah yeah and I think it's also challenging a lot of kind of right progressive leftist movement that's for a while I've been about like well let's just get the right identities in the room and then right exactly free representation you know yeah representation is is is freedom yeah yeah representation is freedom and

you know a very just like simplistic understanding of justice and I do feel inspired by these college campuses and the activism there that's actually challenging like the belly of the beast which we're sitting in you know the American Empire and we're seeing you know while you know we're seeing people who are critiquing this talking out of both sides of their mouth because one of the things that you know they're talking about both of their mouths or both of their mouths I mean these are freaks but you know you're seeing them say you know on the one hand these are all outside of their mouths

agitators and um or just like dumb asses in college who don't know what they're doing um but you're also uh seeing the great fear they have over how much actual reading these kids are doing and uh you know while we have a political system that uh seems to be gridlocked whenever it comes to anything that would i don't know it increase uh and fortify the social safety net or uh help people live um the one thing that they can all agree on is that tic talk should be banned because there's too much uh pro-palistine content on there and that to me was i think what of all the things that have been happening you know in the last whatever two weeks um that was the most bone chilling i think because that was the first it's like i've seen

uh you know police brutality against protests before uh you know i've been a part of protests in which police decided to brutalize i think most people if you you know if you were marching in 2020 or you're marching anytime before that at some point you have dealt with a line of fucking riot cops uh and you've seen it before what i couldn't believe was how easily congress the Senate and the president were able to align on the issue of banning TikTok so that, you know, so that China wouldn't corrupt our kids or some bullshit. But then you see clearly why they did it. And I have a video that I want to show you because it's just like, once you see it,

you're just like, oh, yeah, this is pretty authoritarian. So let's get to it. Where young people are getting their news. nearly a third of eight adults eight so this is uh senator pete rickets ricketts yeah Pete ricketts it sounds like some kind of like intestinal inflammation i got ricketts

he's at home with the ricketts he got the ricketts he ain't coming out of his home for three months he got a quarantine because the ricketts got him bad this time all right tell me about your ricketts 29 these young people in the u.s are regular again news exclusively from TikTok. Pro-Palestinian and Hamas, pro-Hamas hashtags are generating 50 times

the views on TikTok right now, despite the fact that polling shows Americans overwhelmingly support Israel over Hamas. Uh, these videos have more reached than the top 10, I'm sorry, but- The majority of Americans favor a ceasefire and, and disapprove of Biden's policies with regards to Gaza. It's also just,

like how easy pro-Palestine pro-Hamas pro-Palestan Hamas yeah yeah yeah it's like you know people they are overwhelmingly pro-Israel versus this thing that we have decided to only call terrorists forever you know it's like the the war between Hamas and Israel is such an obvious cover but uh you know the crazy thing is that then people will in that same line be like but i do care about Palestinian rights and you're like yeah yeah after you just label them all terrorists And no possibility of freedom. No, I care about Palestinian rights, and I want freedom for them. Unfortunately, there's no such thing as a Palestinian, and the ones that do exist are Hamas, so we have to kill them all.

Also, as Glenn Greenwell pointed out, most Americans support Israel and Jews are a beleaguered, persecuted minority, and the attacks on them come in the form of anti-Zionism, and we need to do everything we can to shut down any free speech that is. right upsetting them yes yes i mean it's just like you know for me i like look at that and i go like what we're fighting here what they are banning is education absolutely what they are banning here is kids actually reading stuff for the first time and and i'm sorry but you know to me this is the same thing of like them trying to like ban library books because there's sexual content in it um except for the democrats complain when that happens when that happens when that happens, you have, you know, Dems going like, I can't believe this. This is, you know, this is anti-LGB. This is anti-gay. This is anti-trans. I swear to God, I don't know where I would be

intellectually, culturally. I mean, I'm kind of a troglodyte as it is. Sure. But if they have banned the, you know, the shadows in the attic or flowers in the attic novels, uh, yeah, V.C. Andrews, you know, those salacious incest books about those spooky siblings. And if I hadn't gotten to read those at age 12, borrowed from my, my girl friends, not girlfriends, but girl friends at Zionist summer camp, I don't know where I would be. I learned to read from reading my dad's secret penthouse forums that he had under his bed, you know? I mean, that's literature.

I never thought it would happen to me. No, but, you know, like the, this idea of, like, you know, and also the cover story behind the, you know, trying to ban TikTok because you're like, oh, it's China. And it's like, well, why, wait, why is China bad? Well, China, you know, their government is authoritarian and censors its people. And they only want things, you know, put out. The only news they can have is, you know, has to be along the government, the CCP line.

So we have to become them. Become them to stop them from, it's just like. Complete nonsense. China is bad because China is winning. Right. You know, there's fucking winters. You believe in the free market? There's winners and there's winters in this world.

Exactly. So make an, if you don't like TikTok because it's failing to indoctrinate people with Zionist propaganda, make an app that works better at having people believe lies. Yes. I thought you guys love the invisible hand. Yeah. Get Israel to invent something. Yeah.

It reminds me of, yeah, because so much of the banning is right around banning the narrative shift that's happening. Yes. And something that is sometimes frustrating from within Jewish community, right? It's so much of our tradition is about asking questions and being critical. Yes. And then when Jewish people ask questions, it's like, well, you're not allowed to ask questions about Palestine. Right.

And it's like, well, but didn't you just train us to ask questions? Right. You've heard of the, you know, Francis Fukuyama, the end of history. Israel is the end of like Talmudic inquiry. Right. It's the end of wrestling with God, which is literally where the name Israel comes from. Exactly. But I want to ask you a question because you just appealed to our tradition.

Yeah, I know. I was surprised. I thought we were going to talk about Jewish shit. Well, but this is the thing. You had to bring it up. And so here, you know, you got a couple of Ashkenazi Jews sitting here, secular, heathen, assimilated American, Canadian. That's true, Canadian. Your activism is not only rooted in your connection to that land and to the, all the peoples of that land you know you've got strong connections across the green line and within israeli activist society but it turns out also that you find things to be connected to in the actual religion itself right i thought you're gonna go for god well and and and and the god about you know to which the religion is oriented and your devotion to that we can say it you know yeah so can you

talk to us a little bit because I you know we're this is an I you know ironic podcast yeah reverent sacred devotion to the bad husband we're dirt bags we can pray if you want we also but how about some devotional dirt bags we can be devotional yeah yeah exactly Hidar Cohen you have three minutes convert us oh wow down on the clock I got a mikva already drawn up I got a moyle in the other room ready to do it ready to do a double dip. Not again. Never again. Never again for anyone. Yeah, never again for Jews. Yeah. Um, no. Um, what's the question like why religion is important to me? Yeah, like how do you source your, uh, your anti-Zionist activism in, and your, and your political activism and you just, your work connects the spiritual

and the political? Well, I do feel like this is where there's a big Ashki, Mizrahi, Ashki is short for Ashkenazi. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You don't know. Yeah. We consider it a slur. Nazi is also short for Ashkenazi. Ashkenazi. Have you heard that? Oh, we've heard it. Yeah.

No, but, you know, like Ashkenazi Jewish tradition largely evolved in the context of Christian Empire. So the relationship to Judaism came also through a relationship to Christianity, right? Because you're influenced by your surroundings. Right. For Arab Jews, we were raised under, you know, Muslim. regimes and the influence of Islam was very, very strong. And, you know, for Ashkenazi Jews, they were very oppressed by Christians in Europe. So the experience of developing Judaism was very anti-Christian.

Right. You know, like our Judaism is anti-Christian. And therefore, anti-the-society that surrounds us. And anti-the-society. We need to live in the shuttles. We need to segregate. And we need to reject kind of the outside influence. Yeah, and also we were forced to, you know, live in places that, you know, we...

No, 100%. Right, right, right. But it was, you know, the Judaism almost in a cocoon as a reaction to the fact that we, you know... And, I mean, a lot of beautiful things came from that. It's not that... Oh, no, of course. No, but that's in very interest. Yeah, well, right.

Beautiful things, us. You're the beauty. Asky beauty, us. But, you know, for Arab Jews, it's like, We actually didn't have that same experience. Like for me, my relationship to Judaism is also connected to my relationship to Islam. Like, I can't actually understand my Judaism without understanding Islam. And I think that the way that Islam influences, influence my Judaism is, you know, very strong.

And I think that's where you see that, you know, Mizrahi Judaism tends to be more devotional, more sensual, more surrender to God-oriented because we had the Islamic influence that actually was very welcomed. You know, a lot of Arab Jewish scholars were reading Quran. They were being in relationship with it. And better rhythms and melodies, too, I got to say. Oh, 100%. We got the music. And food and food. We got better everything. I mean. I mean, I'm speaking of it. I'm sorry. I just straight up. There's just, there's just one dilemma though. Do you know any ask you think that's better? There's literally nothing other than Mel Brooks movies. better.

Yeah, no, it's, it's tough. I mean, you do have sometimes, like, the humor probably. I mean, I think, but that's, that's, well, so, um, theater and, uh, the, the, the Yiddish theater, which basically created vaudeville, which created American musical theater when combined with African American traditions is a very strong thing. Oh, you also have the German intellectuals, Iran and William Bendamine. Yeah, you got some good thing. But what I need to know is, like, speaking of the food, like...

I know what he's going to say. I want to know. What do you drink, if not Christian blood? Right, yeah. What kind of blood do Mizrahi juice? Did you have to drink animal blood? Like... We're vegetarian.

Oh, geez. That's not true. But you guys know what to do with land. We drink pomegranate juice. Oh, okay. It's a representation of the Christian blood. Stolen from Muslims, right? No, but you bring up...

No, and friendship. You bring up an interesting point, actually, both of you in terms of like talking about kind of like, you know, facetiously, of course, about, you know, Mizrahi versus Ashkenazi in terms of like, you know, Jewish culture. Like, that's a mortal combat level I want to see. Fight! We'll make a TV show. What's the Yiddish version of, I, you know. Yeah, right, exactly. Fatality, just both people who have IBS.

both of them shitting their brains out. No, but, you know, it's almost like... Neurosus. We kind of... We kind of... I'm sorry, instead of, get over here, it's go over there. No, don't worry, I'll go over there by myself.

I'll go over there. That's fine. You don't have to yell. No, but in, like, in terms of talking about, like, the kind of, like, Ashkenazi Jewish, the different culture of traditions almost being like based on the in this like the cauldron that was created in terms of like the Jews not having a great time in Europe right and because of that you know you know when you're talking about music you're talking about theater you're talking about poetry you're talking about philosophy and all that stuff it's a it's almost comes from this very particular Jewish experience of being constantly

displaced and yada yada yada alienated because alien yeah alienated because alien exactly and what like stand-up comedy is yeah i'm not i'm not mistaken alienation is at the very core oh yeah stand-up posture well that's why we are alone up there but you know what's what i find interesting about um you know the the kind of erasure of uh oh you find our erasure interesting i find it well i find it funny. No, I'm kidding. But I find kind of like fascinating about it is because of the fact that it is, the erasure doesn't just go beyond like this cultural erasure of like Mizrahi Jews being like, well, now we just call you all Israeli. Like that's what we do. We go like, but we, it's the erasure of the history and the integration of Jewish communities within the Middle East in their respective like host countries or whatever you. you want to call them in the countries they're from. Avi Shlame says that in his book in a really, really beautiful way that the rupture wasn't just a physical rupture

of like, you know, separating Jewish communities from the Arab world, but it was also a historical rupture. Yes. And which our access to understanding history was, you know, distorted. For a very specific ideological purpose. Oh, yeah. Because if it's true. For Ashki Dominance.

Well, but not just that, for Zionist hegemony. Because if if, if, and the two go hand, in hand. Zionism in its core is let's get Jews from Europe here and dominate this land. Let's use Mizrahi Jews in whatever way we need to to buttress that project. But if it's the case that for thousands of years, Islam and Judaism have been in some kind of harmonious relationship, even though, you know, groups of people have always had issues in all over the world. Then the entire narrative of the whole world is anti-Semitic and therefore Israel needs to exist falls apart.

So it's like this necessary erasure. Yeah, I mean, you know, there's so much to unpack here, but colonialism has a very strong interest in particularly separating Jews and Muslims. Yes. And wedging that relation and then using Jews, right? Colonialism and, you know, the way the anti-Semitism works is actually using the Jewish community.

And, you know, we see that quite clearly. And I think... Are you saying Zionism is anti-Semitic? That is part of what. Holy shit. I didn't know I was on a Nazi podcast. You're kidding. Welcome. But yeah, I'm sorry, go on.

No, but yeah, you know, I think that's part of like the heartbreak of it. You know, one thing that I think about often is that we historically are living in probably the first time in history where Jews are living this disconnected from Muslim society. Yeah. They are not actually living from within Muslim society. Yeah. And that is a huge, huge tragedy and a huge loss to everyone. Yeah. And even the Aski Jews.

I mean, I agree. And it's like the erasure goes so deep because even down to the term Mizrahi Jew is an erasure of, you know, it's an erasure of a separate nationalities based on the countries that you lived in. Iraqi Jews, Yemeni Jews, you know, Jews from Syria. There's, we're Jews all over the Middle East. Was it who said I'm an Arab first and a Jew second? Like they, many of these Jews. Yeah, yeah, they really, they were, many of them really identified with the sense of place and neighborliness.

And then Jewish was their religion. And you see people pushing back on, um, people for even using the term Arab Jew. And I want to. Yeah, I get a lot of the hate for that. And I want to ask you about that. How dare you? And to me, that's so fascinating because it's so for anyone who's like, you know, you don't even have to be that interested. You just have to look at that and go like, oh, that seems weird that you would hate that.

Seems kind of like you hate Arabs. It's so masked off. You know who thinks that's an oxymoron? Who? Ashki morons. Oh, my God. No, but you know what really frustrates me about that discourse? And I want to say this on the mic and have this permanently on the internet because it's

drives me insane and I think it drives a lot of Arab Jews insane, which a lot of times the talking point is like, oh, like how dare you claim this phrase, this term, this identity, like Arabs didn't treat Jews well, we didn't belong, la, la, la, which of course you can question that history and that narrative, which a lot of us do. Yes. But if you were to like, let's take that into consideration, then why the hell is German Jew an acceptable identity? Fuck yeah. Exactly. It's so frustrated. Ukrainian Jew. Jews research. My was hoping. Jewish American, black Jews. But, like, Germany probably did the most vicious things to the Jews.

Oh, yeah, 100%. And Jews returned to Germany pretty fast. Yes. But they're making up for it now. They're so nice. Hold on. I'm angry. I want to finish my ride.

Yes. No, please. That's a great point. No, it's just really frustrating because it's like German, no one bats an eye when you say German Jew. They're like, oh, yeah, German Jew. But you say Arab Jew and you're like, oh, the Arabs didn't accept you. And you're just like, and the Germans did?

Or the polls? Like, what kind of? like craziness is it it's a it's a fantastic point and one I've never even considered before because I wanted to put it on the you know it's it's so true and and you know you see it and it's because I mean if I were to venture a guess as to why it is okay to uh you know put place of origin next to Jewish it's because it's European yeah because it's European uh it is okay we are we'd like Europeans that's one reason the second The second reason is that Germany is now part of the NATO world.

It's part of the U.S. imperial imperial, you know, and it reminds me of that, forgive me for quoting Anaski Jewish giant here. No, I have to close my eyes now. Robert, Robert Zimmerman, Bob Dylan, in the song with God on our side from 1964, I think. One of the verses is, the Second World War Boys, it came to an end, we forgave the Germans and now we were friends, though they murdered six millions in the ovens they fried, the Germans now too have God on their side. Wow. And God in this case is, you know, the godfather of world power. Yeah.

Yeah. But I mean, but also at the same time, you know, even, you know, if we're talking about, we do also mention Russian Jews, you know, and Russia is not necessarily a part of like the Western hegemony, right? I think it is, you know, I, to simply, like, maybe. Islamophobic and orientalist. It is completely orientalist. And it's white supremacist, you know, in multiple different ways.

And you see it, you know, more and more, obviously, within Zionist communities. Like, there's not a non-Zionist or just like some secular Jew in America who would yell at you. For your identity. For the fact that you said Arab Jew. I never once even considered it being a bad thing at all. Yeah, and not been yelling at someone for their identity. Exactly. You're just like, yeah, Arab Jews.

The people who bring this up as like, oh, you shouldn't say that, that's bad. Or like, you know, the kids out there who are telling their parents like, hey, you know we're Arab Jews. And they're like, how dare you? Don't say that. Which you know what is actually interesting about that? Yeah. Because even within, this is what also drives me nuts sometimes is because there's such a disconnect. in American politics

versus what's actually happening on the ground in the discourse even from within Israeli society because actually there has been a phenomenon from within Israeli society as racist as it is for many young Mizrahim to actually reclaim Arab Jews.

That's right. Like that is actually a pretty common thing these days and there's TV shows that are made about it, there's scholarship, there's like you go to a book like, you know, obviously there's many academics who've talked about Arab Jews as a, as a, you know, identity And to just be that disconnected from the conversation, you know, and then somehow still feel like you are pro-Israel, it's like you're not even paying attention to the discourse in the land.

Can you talk it all about the narrative of this? There's a kind of, I guess you could call it a dog whistle when we start, when we talk about the rightward drift of Israeli society in the last, let's say since the 70s, since Megan was elected or whatever. Malach him. I just met him. I'm sorry. Such an idiot. I don't know where to begin. Yeah.

Oh, fuck. That was great. Thank you. We really do need to title this episode, Ashki Morons. That's what's going on here. We really have to. Just about the conversation we were having before, you know, one thing that's also really frustrating, just in the way that Arab, Jew, German Jew, like that discrepancy.

But also, it just feels like for a lot of people, they think of Palestinians as Nazis. like the whole kind of trauma and hatred and all that suffering like Palestinians to so many people have just like people see them as just Nazis and just how a historical that is to the point where you know sometimes I teach all over the world and sometimes I teach in Europe and I talk about anti-Zainism and then sometimes I have people from within the Jewish community I remember I had this has drove me nuts there's one Jewish woman who literally was like but why are you talking about Christian hegemony and you know know the harm of that that did to Jewish community like Christian community has been so nice to us that's supporting like Zionism and I'm like just a level of twisted deranged narrative that we're in in which like we as a Jewish community let off the hook white Christian empire even angelical Christians yes and then we just impose so much like harshness and all Arabs on all It's Stockholm, Berlin. Orsau syndrome.

Yeah, exactly. And, you know... Even Arabic as a language is like literally seen as a terrorist language. Yeah. To the point in which... Whereas many of the great Jewish scholars wrote in Arabic, yeah? Arabic is also a Jewish language, you know? It is a Semitic language.

And it's funny because like when we talk about Semitism and whatnot, you know, people obviously, it ended up being the term that race scientists made up to talk about Jews. about Jews. They call them Semites, even though a Semitic is, it's a language group. And like, even down to the fact that that is, Arabic is also a Semitic language. It's like completely erased as like, no, no, no, this Nazi shit. I mean, you can't even say Intifada. Yeah. You can't even say Allah. Yeah, you can't say Allah. Yeah, which is just God. And, you know, I don't mind if you say. You say Allah Akbar and people start like having panic attack. You can say. You can say, Allah, but don't put a yeah in front of it or or or put walk bar after it. That's right. Just

the Allah part. Just show some respect. Yeah. Exactly. From my feelings to my feelings of the feelings that come from my prejudices. Yes. And my ignorance. And yeah. So, you know, it's interesting because we have seen, at least on this podcast, we've, we did a whole episode about Hen Mazig. Oh. Did you see him on Brianna Joy Gray this week? Oh, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was it good? Well, I didn't actually watch it, but I saw his, because I only saw it today, didn't have a chance, but he was pushing back on her. He's basically like, look at this so-called journalist telling, telling a Mizrahi Jew. A gay Mizrahi Jew, that things were great in Arabic.

Sorry, in Iraq. Yes, yes. She was talking about, look, your beef with Iraq is your thing, but what does that have to do with the Palestinians? Right, yeah. Yeah, oh, that's great. And we talked about him on a previous episode. Yeah, so, I mean, you know, I would say that in terms of, of the, you know, usefulness of Mizrahi Jews for the sake of the Zionist project.

Usefully, yiddots. Yeah. But that doesn't work because they're not Yiddish. I know. But it could have worked. But, no, you see a lot of tokenism. Yeah. And I feel like I want to, you know, ask you to speak on that because the one thing, in talking

to Mizrahi Jews in my own life, the one thing I'm trying not to do is, to tokenize them. I'm trying not to put words in their mouth or like trying to tell them what kind of experience would be in these Arab states would be good for my narrative. Yeah. And so I've had the question for a while and, you know, I've read a limited amount on the Arab experience, the Arab Jewish experience in the Middle East. So what is the narrative that you grew up with versus what is the narrative that you've come to like question where where are you now yeah well so I grew up in a very Mizrahi home um which you know within israeli society there's kind of two largely groups of Mizrahim there's a Mizrahim who

integrate and mix with Ashkenazim and there's a misachim who don't um and is that is that based on um where exactly from the Middle East they are or just based on when they made aliyah or mostly sometimes depending on economic conditions like where they were placed you know there's certain like you know areas that are just so impoverished that it was just like that was an Ibrahimhood right I heard you say one sorry I heard you say once that there's actually a word in modern Hebrew a verb that describes the process of becoming yeah Yeah, Leshitechnez. What is it?

Lehistaknez. Lehistechnez? Yes, to become Ashkenazi. Oh my God. So, yeah. So there's a very strong, I mean, just like in the U.S., right, when so many communities move here, there's an Americanization process. Absolutely.

When you lose your language, you lose your culture, you stop wearing the, you know, the dress clothes that you would normally wear, you start changing the way you speak a little bit. You start becoming a bit more polite, not pushing the edge too much. You don't walk on red on the side. You know what I mean? Like just things like that. You don't yell as much. Yeah, right.

Stop talking with your hands. Yeah. You just become domesticated to like a very like weird culture that doesn't make it sense. So I mean, the Israelification process is very similar, I would say. But basically, you know, the Mizrahim, sadly, the Mizrahim who did have interactions with Ashkenazim or intermarried or, you know, kind of grew up with Ashkenazim basically mostly lost their roots.

Like when you ask them, what do you know about? Mizrahi identity and culture, they won't know what to say. So, but the Mizrahim who actually were in those families who are very like, we do not mix, actually kept a lot of the Arabic, kept a lot of the, you know, so that's like a pretty big divide that you still see in Mizrahi community is that there's the Mizrahim who really come from the places of like, we're going to preserve our lineage, we're going to pass down. Like I grew up very strongly and like no one in my family married Ashkenazi. No one. You know. And I was very, like, my grandma was like, we do not do that, you know, because it wasn't like, we hate them.

It was just like, we will lose our lineage if we do this. Yeah, I love that because that's just like, it's, it's, you know, it's Jewish mother syndrome and microcosm, you know, it's like, it's even more granular than like, make sure you marry a Jew. It's like, make sure you, don't marry Ashkenazi Jew. It's not the same thing. Are there Mizrahim on J-Date with like in their profile, no Ashkes? I would probably be me No Trumpers No, no, no MAGA

No picture of you at Matropichu And no Ashkenazi No, but of course it's complex Right? Because again, kind of going back to those two categories because obviously then there were people Who did want to marry Ashkenazi Because then it meant that they had more rights They were able to advance more

They were able to go to universities They were able to get jobs more So you know, you kind of have the both end Anyways, like yeah, I grew up in a very like we are Mizrahi and I it was you know Jerusalem at that time you know maybe you know the Black Panther movement that started in Jerusalem my friend Rebecca Pierce I think made a documentary about that and she's going to be on the show at some point oh nice yeah yeah yeah yeah Safelya who lives in L.A also just wrote a book about it but you know my parents were in high

school when that was happening and my dad was a bit of a nerd so he wasn't really like part of the protest activism but like they always were supporting it you know so I grew up in a home that was very like... Lefty. I mean, so here's a thing that's harsh about Mizrahi community, right? Because it's not exactly lefty, because a lot of Mizachim and Israel actually are right-wing. Right, no, I know that. But, like, in terms of actually understanding Mizrahi racism, like, you know.

But that's to say that also I grew up with a lot of shame around it. Like, when I moved to the U.S., I would lie about being Mizrahi. I would pretend I was Ashkenazi, you know, and that's like something that happens to a lot of Mizakim is like trying to, because you just get all these racist comments and like you don't want that, you know? So, and you want, you're also like you grow up in a way that's like, oh, if you're Ashkenazi, then you're educated. You're a part of the university. You're part of the, you know, you are able to have a voice, you know? So, um, anyways, I grew up with a lot of different complex things within my family. My mom was definitely way more pushing this like, you need to go to the

university, get educated like an Ashkenazi. Like, you know, and my dad was like, no, don't assimilate. Well, so did, but did the story, the origin story of your family and your ancestors, you know, Aliyah to, you know, Israel, you know, a lot of the times that story is kind of an important part of the, not just the individual narrative of the family, but the Zionist narrative in general. And some people adhere to it and they grow up and they go like the one, you know, we don't talk about Iraq anymore. We're not Iraqi Jews because of what happened in 48 or 49 or 1950, you know, whenever they were expelled. And, you know, it becomes sort of like, I would say almost like a facsimile of the Ashkenazi, the European Jewish narrative in which, like, you know, we don't, well, we're here because it's, you know, we have to be it because of what they did. And we kind of conflate what they did. in Germany to what they did in Iraq. And we say it was the same thing.

Yeah, we kind of inherit the Ashkenazi Jewish trauma. Exactly. And confuse ourselves. Like, we're very confused people, is the truth. Holocaust trauma by proxy. Yeah, yeah. And so, like, I want to ask you about that in terms of, like, what is your experience with that in your own life?

And what do you know about your own family's history? Yeah. So, I mean, again, my dad's side and my mom's side are very, they're both Mizachian. but the very, very different Mizrahi in every way. So I think I also grew up with a lot of like Mizrahi wasn't like this one thing. It was like there were so many. And there's a lot of infighting from within Mizlachi communities as well. Sure.

You know, my dad's side, my grandma, who I was closest to you in my family, she's been in Jerusalem for over 10 generations. I grew up in the old city of Jerusalem. You know, she had Palestinian friends until the day she died. She was always very connected to Palestinian society. She was always very in favor of giving Palestinian society. or land back. So, you know, I grew up with that narrative. My grandfather died when he was young, but when I was young, but he was from Aleppo and, you know, we had like really beautiful, like a lot

of actually lineage passed down around beautiful stories from Aleppo. And, you know, even with my dad sometimes, you know, I asked him once if he would like ever want to go with me to Aleppo one day, if like that's something that he could imagine. And like, he just started crying, you know. So, like, it's not like, oh, we never look back, like, I mean, especially Aleppo. Lapo, you know, obviously I'm biased, but I think is one of the most beautiful Arab cities, even though I've never been there. But, like, in my heart, I feel that. Yeah. So, you know, there's definitely, like, especially to Aleppo in Jerusalem, there's, like, a lot of, like, depth and richness that I've been passed on. And a lot of pride also about being Jewish from these cities, you know? so yeah I mean from that side it's not like we made aliyah we were just there you know

yeah um they were just like lived I mean in right Syria Palestine are kind of just right there yeah yeah um in fact there's a little bit of Syria and side of this or right totally um and you know like Aleppo and Jerusalem were kind of more um cities intellectual cities artistic cities so my grandparents from my dad's side really came from that from my mom's sides are Kurdish and from Sakhis, which is in northern Iran. And they came to the state of Israel when they were in the 1950s. And, you know, this is where my grandpa and my grandma talk about this differently because my grandma doesn't want to talk about it at all. Mostly because she experienced a lot of gender violence. So she has a lot of trauma about that. But my grandpa, he

speaks very fondly, actually, about the Muslim community. And he tells us a lot of stories. And he, you know, it tells us that when his mom died, they did a Shiva. He did a Shiva, which is like, you know, the seven days of grief morning after someone passed. And he was just like the whole Muslim community organized it for us. They supported us. Like they were grieving. He was like they were crying with us. And, you know, when all the kind of sinus agents came to kind of convince the communities, my grandfather definitely was like, you know, they told us don't leave. Like we don't want you to leave. They were like, he was like they were begging us not to leave. And I think one thing that's, sometimes missed in the story, right? Because Zionism was started as a very secular political

movement. And when it was very secular, it did not get Mizrahi support. You know what I mean? Like there was no Mizrahi support when it was a secular thing. The only way that it started getting the Mizrahi support is when it started becoming religious. And that's exactly what happened. Because when these Zionist agents went and they were like, oh, here's like this political project we're doing. Like no one was really interested. They're like, why should we do this political project this makes no sense right but when they were like what you wanted to make a joke no I just thought I was all the movement he's like he's got a pun no it wasn't so much a pun but just you know like why would we want to go make like forts and walls and towers with a bunch

of Europeans yeah yeah right this region totally yeah yeah um you know and for them like Europeans dressed all weird they were like what is right yeah but then when you say when they made it into, you know, this religious project. Yeah, and specifically when they made it about Jerusalem, that's what kind of, and that's what got my grandparents because that, that is a story where they were like, well, Jerusalem, Jerusalem is in your prayers because, you know, Mizalchi community is very devotional and very traditional. And you see that, even in, you know, the more secular communities now, they still have a very strong love of God and love of tradition. And yeah, when there was kind

of this, come to Jerusalem, this is, you know, the city you've been praying for, like, there's a religious thing going on. That's kind of what got the buy-in from a lot of communities. And, you know, my grandparents, they say that part of the tragic story, right, is that they were like, okay, and then they came and they were placed in Mar-Barrot, which are, you know, these encampments. Shanties, so-called development towns. Right.

Development towns, yeah. And, you know, my grandparents actually were the lucky ones because they ran away from the encampment. Oh, yeah. And they were like, because they were there for like two years. And then after they were like, fuck this. We didn't come all the way here to be here. like, we came for Jerusalem.

So then they just, you know, found their way to Jerusalem and then from there. But, you know, I think that kind of common story, which is a big part of the trauma, right? Is that the betrayal from other Jews, right? Like, that's like, you're sold this story and then you come to this place and something else happens. And, you know, the thing that's so harsh with most Mizrahe communities is that the option to return isn't there. Right.

Like, my grandparents couldn't go back to Kurdistan. or to Syria or to wherever, you know, minus Morocco that, you know, and some other, like, the only option was either to stay or to go to Europe or the U.S., to become more Western. Right, yeah, go to Berlin. Yeah, it's like, great. Go party. Yeah, now I'm in the city of your trauma. Go do some drugs in.

Yeah. Get the. If any of our listeners slash viewers want to learn more about the history of Kurdish Jews and their, you know, migration to Israel in the 50s, I'm reading an incredible. book right now that you actually recommended called My Father's Paradise by Ariel Sabar who I think is

he lives here yeah I don't know if he lives here anymore but he's yeah he's taught a huge feeling it's it's it's the story of his father's family and a good portion of it is spent in their mountain village in Kurdistan just describing the life there

which is just completely unique they spoke Aramaic wow it was one of the places where that language is Jesus's language. Yeah, my grandparents also speak Aramaic. They still speak it, yeah. Wow. For those you don't know, Aramaic is the language invented by Mel Gibson for the movie, The Passion of the Christ.

It has an Australian accent. Yeah, yeah. It actually came from the West, no. Yes, sure. That's not Jesus. I don't know what I'm doing. Do I like Jews? No.

No. No. No, I don't know him. So we Well, just maybe just to just kind of close off on that is I think part of the harshness of Mizraja experience

I certainly feel a lot is that right like not being able to actually be an Easterner in the way that we're labeled right? We actually have to give up our eastern roots and like the two options

seem like either become Israeli the Israelification which really means become Ashkenazi or European Western whatever or go to the West right Europe the US you know like those are kind of our options. And again, minus, you know, Morocco and there's some, you know,

revival of Tunisian Jewish communities. I mean, there's Tunisian Jewish communities who stayed there forever. But some of that is being revived in Egypt. Now there's a bit more Jewish revival going on as well. But, you know, overall, there's, there's been just so much loss there. So I want to, you know, close this out with just kind of a fear that I have. Okay. In terms of, uh, You're scared of them. I have a fear, Matt, that we're never going to get to talk about shy Davy Dai in detail on this podcast. We are absolutely going to be able to do that. It's just not, probably not this episode.

Great. But the thing is, is I knew we weren't going to do it. As soon as I found out, you guys were both here, I was like, fuck it. Let's fucking, let's talk. Because I wanted to talk about. This stuff is too interesting and too important and too overlooked. Way too overlooked. And it ties into neuroses that I have a fear that I have about, the way in which the

Arab Jewish narrative has been, you know, not just, you know, a race, but like torn down and then recreated in the image of Zionism. Totally. And the way in which that kind of almost works both ways in terms of you seeing in now, in, you know, the Arab world because of the constant conflation of Jew and Zionist and Israeli and whatnot. And especially in Cuba when they were, you know, because they, you know, Jew or, Jew or Zionists. Jew or Jew or Zionists.

Jew really believe in the right of return for Jews. I was like, will this be a pun or will this be a fact? I don't know. Because I don't know a lot. You never know. But. Oh, God. Someone put me out of my misery.

Yes. But, you know, because of the way in which like, because of the way in. in which you see kind of the, I mean, there's the constant anti-Arab racism coming out of Israel. You see in the, in the Arab world, you do see, you know, people who are just like, fuck Jews, right? There is, in general, like, the, who's to say what's overblown and what isn't, but you see kind of like, kind of the very successful way in which Zionism has been able to separate Jews from the Arab world

in a way that's poisoned Jews, Arab Jews against the Arab world and Arabs against the Jewish world, so to speak. It's succeeded in a conversion process. Yes. Of Muslims to anti-Semitism. Yes. And

certainly not all of them or most of them, but enough of them to form a real impediment. Which was part of the final solution in a way, right? Like, we're not going to kill the Jews, but we're going to let the Muslims kill the Jews, you know? That's right. Yeah. And And what I find kind of like interesting or not interesting, what I find scary about it is, is, you know, I see the way in which that was, I think, successfully pulled off. Yeah, very successful.

The way in which, I mean, you know, and, you know, honestly, even amongst, like, Arab Americans, like, if I were an Arab American, I would, I would be, like, I don't know how any Arab in the world can look at Israel and not be like, mad you know what i mean i not be mad at all jews but like just being fucking like they're doing apartheid to my fucking people well i don't know how you could be a jew and look at as well not be mad you would think uh but hey it seems like it's for us so it's okay but what what what worries me about this is uh you see this model of a very uh successful kind of like reframing of uh a very successful poisoning of people against each other uh arab and arab jews arab muslims arab christians Arab Jews. And I see that as something that is attempted to be repeated, but in the West. This poisoning of Jews in American Jews in the West against college students, against anyone

who goes against a Zionist narrative. And so my fear is I see it the most successful iteration of that in the last six months. There's a first time in my life that when it comes to the issue of like Israel amongst American Jews who are pretty insulated from what is going on there, they can have opinions about it, but we're all insulated. Now looking at their neighbors and looking at people who are not Jewish or who are Jewish but are anti-Zionists and going like, we got to get the fuck out of here. People actually like saying stuff like that.

And I don't know how you guys feel about it, but it's like one of the things that I find to be the most disturbing kind of like anti-Semitic projects in modern times is, you know, this kind of attempt to scare Jews out of the countries that they live in. Yeah, it's almost like they're trying to provoke the kind of flight. and re-identification and erasure of... That's what I'm saying. You know, and... We'll take our suitcases, though. Yeah. And I remember this from Zionist summer camp when I was a kid.

There was something I just chafed at when my madrachim, which means counselors, would do these activities with us where we're supposed to, like, think about our Jewish identity. And of course, we always knew that the punchline, we'd have discussions, you could say whatever you wanted, but we knew that what was being driven at was your true Jewish identity rests with the nation. and the place where the nation has come to flourish, i.e. the state of Israel, which means you're not really at home here, kids. Right. And you better be preparing for the plan B. You better be, you know, feeling less comfortable here than you have, and you've earned the right, and then you've been

given the right and the freedom to feel, which isn't to say that being a Jew was always hunky-dory in North America. But it's not, it's not pleasant necessarily to be a Chinese immigrant or To be a, the kid of anyone from any other part of the world. Right. In fact, you might say that compared to other minorities, doing pretty good. It's fucking Shangri-La here for Jews. Yeah, comparatively.

You know? Yeah. Because we can pass as white. Yes. And yeah. And I think that is, you know, so when I, yeah, I hear your story, I see it almost as it feels like a scary, foreshattering. A cautionary tale.

Like, and I don't want to say what. Just you're supposed to hear the story of, you know, the Mizrahi Jews, it, it greatly concerns me as someone who has seen more and more people who are, you know, starting to talk like Alia is something that is being forced upon them as opposed to something that is maybe they're being told as being forced upon. Well, you know, I think one of the most successful things that Zionism did was the weaponization of religion. and, you know, turning something that was a colonial project into a religious struggle. And, you know, if you watch 75 years later, you watch most of the media, they're still talking about it and sort of like a religious conflict. What are the Jews and the Muslims and the Jews and the Muslims? And it's like, that's not really what's going on, you know?

And that's why you get... Christians under the rubble are being like, what about us? Yeah, right. But, you know, I mean, and that's why you can kind of get into these really distorted conversations where you're like, well, what about 15,000 children being murdered in Gaza? And then the response is like, well, but the Bible says, you know, Deuteronomy. Or at best, you know, religious extremism is bad. It's just a shame that people believe in God because this is what it leads to.

Right. Yeah. So the way that like the religious conversation kind of shapes, you know, like, and manipulates actual reality and distracts people from, you know, the ongoing violence. that's been happening and and then obviously there's consequences to that as you were saying yeah yeah and you know I think we see that in the U.S. for sure is that like you know targeted attacks towards Muslims and also to Jews has been increasing and increasing all over the world because there's such an enmeshment of religion in that and I think that you know for me I'll just say that

part of the activism of dismantling Zionism has to also be in dismantling that narrative of religious conflict and actually saying like, no, this is why so much of my work is around multi-religious spirituality. It's like, you know, to me as a woman of faith, as someone who's devotional to God, God is one, but the path to God is multitude, you know, and I think that it's so, so, so important. That kind of religious solidarity feels critical. Yeah. Well, I'm a huge fan of you and of everything you say and I've been a huge fan when we did Hanukkah together you did this exercise that you had everyone I don't know what you call it an exercise yeah in which people were connecting via asking questions and then really listening to the answer

And then asking a deeper question underneath that question. Right. And it was, you know, you and Daniel did it together. Like Daniel, you know, volunteers like, sure, I'll try this. And you guys ended up having one of the most, it was like, it was a spiritual experience watching it. Because you guys are both very emotionally intelligent people. And you were. Can I quote you on that?

Yes, you can. You can put that in the, you know. Yeah, exactly. Put that in your bio. He's very emotionally intelligent, handsome as the devil. But yeah, no, so I'm just a huge fan of that kind of work. And I want to, you know, it's the end of the show. And I want to plug what it is that you do. And I want you to tell people where they can find your work and the stuff that, yeah. Yeah. And maybe I'll just quickly put a political plug first and then. Oh, please, please, please. No, but, you know, I think that part of my activism has led me to the place, right?

Of, like, what will it take to dismantle apartheid? And, you know, sometimes it seems like, at least for me, it's like, okay, the system is so massive. Like, how do we come up against, like, such an entire militarized system? And I think that there's two things that I've come through is, like, one is consciousness shifting, you know, changing the narrative, education. Like, I think political education is so, so, so important. And I think that's why, going back to the encampments, why there are such revolutionary spaces, because when you educate yourself and educate the community and the narrative shifts, you know, that eventually leads to the reality shifting.

But then the second thing is that is a relational apartheid, you know, because part of dismantling the material apartheid is also dismantling the relational one that's been created, you know, between Jews and Muslims, Jews, Palestinians. And, you know, part of that event was like, how do we practice taking down these walls that been artificially created to separate and segregate our communities. Even between Ashkenazi and Ms. Rafi? Even, yeah. Even then?

Can we bring that one down? We can bring that one down. I know we're annoying, but... You're a little bit annoying, yeah, I'm not going to like. I know we like to pun, but we're all so fun to hang out with. No, you belong, you belong, don't worry. I know you have a lot of trauma about that. Do you belong.

Yeah, you belong. We accept Ashkenazi too. No. But yeah, just to plug in my work, I mean, I have a mystical school called Malchut. Malchut.1. M-A-L-C-H-U-T. Thank you. Yeah, people say Malchut. And, you know, it's kind of a test to see who's Arabians. Right, right, right, right. Who actually knows how to say the Ha-Sound.

But, yeah, I have a lot of both classes on Jewish mysticism and also a fellowship that's called God Fellowship, which is about direct experience of God, which I've done multiple fellowships on. And usually it's a combination of Jews and Palestinians and other identities. And yeah, just connecting spiritually feels quite healing. And yeah, my substack, I think it's just hadhadha Cohen.substack.com is that where I do a lot of different writings. That's where you can kind of find all the different things I do. I also have my own podcast called Hadar's Web, where I interview different people about spirituality and justice and healing at art. I also am doing various retreats coming up, which is really exciting.

I have one with Avishlame coming up and right outside London for Arab Jewish scholars. Oh, cool. Yeah, so we're going to be producing some literature for you all. Oh, I love literature. I mean, I don't know if literature, maybe it'll be more media bits, but you know. Media is even better. I was going to say, do you have the literature and audio book? Yeah, but just like, you know, working with organizing the Arab Jewish community and especially

Arab Jews for Palestine and, you know, shifting the narrative around the way, the weaponization of Misachia identity for Zionism. It's like, how do we break that and build solidarity with Palestinians and other Arabs? What else do I do, I think? I mean, those are all good. All of those will go in the show notes. Do consulting, community conversation. Hell yeah.

Right, thanks. Well. Check out my new book. I just want to say, like, you know, I think many people tune in to this podcast from, you know, from what I see in the comments and the feedback I get is because of the irreverent, non-stableness. So not so serious way we can deal with these. Are you going to call me not irreverent? No, no, no, no, no, no.

But you manage to be irreverent and reverent at the same time. That's right. But what I'm saying is that in the, in the, a devotional heretic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In the podcasting slash comedy world, satirical world, sometimes sincerity and earnestness can seem like the enemy, you know, or like, you know, because really what that does is it lowers our defenses. and humor is a really great kind of intellectual immune system, right?

You keep out the bullshit. That's right. You repel the hypocrisy, all of that. It's all my antibodies. They're just me being sarcastic. But ultimately, I think. Isn't that, doesn't that, like, create a lot of, like, confusion on the internet?

Yes. Well, no, I was just going to make a joke about, like, Oshky. Autoimmune disorder. I was like, is that too far? I'm like, is that too far? Allergies. Allergies, eczema.

Yeah, exactly. Oh, no. Bullshit's happening. I'm getting a rat. No, no, no, no, it's great. I loved it. I never know, like, when you make mean jokes. No, we're rubbing off on you.

Oh, no, that's great. But I guess what I wanted to say very sincerely, you know, in a more, in a more devotional way, is just that when it comes to making a difference and an act of it, it relies on giving a shit. Yes, that's right. And giving a shit has to be from the heart. Yeah. And so I just appreciate that component that you bring without sacrifice. being you know cool as fuck and being able to do a hundred percent yeah and you know here's the thing people who listen to this podcast they listen for all sorts of reasons some really like the dumb

jokes some people just want to make sure that they're not insane that's right and i feel like the you know that is probably one of the biggest services we did i did also get a comment that i really appreciated uh and i think if i had heard it you know months ago i'd have been like all right calm down, but given how things, someone wrote, you guys are doing more to fight anti-Semitism than the ADL. Oh, yeah, 100%. And I was like, yeah, I mean, it's a very low bar when you think of the ADL at this point. That should be part of the tag line.

I know. Like fighting anti-Semitism. Well, the ADL is an anti-Semitism factory. They run on it. Why wouldn't they, why would they ever want to eradicate it? But that reminds me, I have to say this. And I'm sorry if there's any Slavoy-Zijik fans out there, but I'm going to do it. a bad impression of him. Oh, yes. Make sure it's really wet. Him and Norman

get your, get your splash cards out. Oh yeah. This is like a Gallagher concert. But him and Norman Finkelstein did an event along with a bunch of other panelists, Marie and Rabani and some others at OR books in the Lower East Side in Manhattan. And they each spoke for like six minutes or something. And Norm went and then Slavoy speaks. And he started off with just an odd opening. He says, it might be this might be in the final analysis

I'm doing James Adomian now but this might be what did you say silly but I really want to say that Norman people like you and Norman Finklestin and others are the most elegant

refutation of anti-Semitism if anyone was ever convinced of anti-Semitism you would be the counterproof to it and I was just like dude like that that's a weird thing to say to a Jew I mean for sure but to a podcast oh yeah 100% 100% it was like oh if I'd literally any other time in my life and I'd heard that I'd be like what the fuck you're talking about but the way the ADL

has really shown like they've really again mask off I say it a lot but let's be real mask off at this point they're calling students Hamas like Jonathan Greenblatt is like send in the National Guard to Columbia. It's like yeah, yeah. Pretty much the ADL is doing nothing but upholding the idea that all Jews are aligned with

Israeli, you know, political and military objectives. Which is bad for the Jews. And also ridiculous because every single encampment has had Jewish students be part of it. Which leads me to our ending piece real quick.

I got to end with a piece of media at this point this is old but it was just my favorite thing i think we're all going to enjoy it it's the bravest wife of all time look at my face i am not afraid what my face on camera did she go my face Did you guys not see this? I did see it, yeah, yeah, with the word Jew. When I said dumb, I thought I met you met your wife. No, no, no, no.

My wife would never be as brave. She's brave enough to go on Pierce Morgan, but not to do that. No, this was a man who posted his wife going to, that was in Yale, going to one of these encampments, and wearing a shirt that's a Jew in the front and Israel in the back, yelling at people, I am not afraid, put my face on camera. Stop ignoring me Yeah, stop ignoring me Someone hit me for Hasbara

Make me a meme Yeah, I need to be victimized In order to be on television Yeah, I mean she's the one Annie Lennox saying about Some of them want to be abused Yeah, I mean Gosh, that makes me so sad

Yeah, and it was like The greatest thing about it was Right behind her As she's doing this brave act Of being the only Jew You see being Jew You see a bunch of other Jews for for Palestine.

Yeah, this is a big sign. This is Jews for Palestine. Yes, yes. You see, you know, Jewish voice for peace, Jews for Palestine. You see, you know, video after video of people doing their Passover satyrs at these encampments. And then you see one person wearing sure this is Jew and just saying, I'm not afraid. No one else is either, buddy.

Look, look, no matter what kind of Jew you are, you're a Jew for something. You can be a Jew for renewal. You can be a Jew for Jesus. You can be a Jew for Palestine. or you can be a Jew for awkward self-absorption and propaganda. And more and more people these days love that one. And but not us. And most of them are Christians.

But I also feel like Jews for Palestine, like, you know, like it's so frustrating sometimes reading these. I feel like people just like make up statistics or like, oh, 99% of the Jewish community Zionists. And I'm like, where the hell are you? Like, you know, a few years ago, they did a study of the American Jewish public. And 40% of them said that Israel is enough.

apartheid state which is actually pretty high that's really high especially i mean this was a couple years ago and also relative to like the people who name it there's probably a lot of people who think it and don't express it besides how are they sending out these polls email that's not how you're going to reach the younger ones no way you did it on tic talk we'd find out how you know what the real yeah exactly i feel like jewish voices for palestine are just growing and growing and growing and i continue to grow yes inshalla nothing makes me feel uh more excited for the nothing makes me feel more optimistic than seeing all these young kids out there and these encampments all these young Jewish people who are saying out loud not in my name and

that's just pretty tight and one of the most beautiful photos I saw there was a Passover Seder they did in Berkeley and there's this beautiful photo of the Seder and then two college students one you know with a full on kifia and one with a watermelon kippa and they were like hugging each other from above and it was so sweet so beautiful and you know it is you're seeing it more and more especially amongst the youth and the young people's ability to not buy into the Hasbara is I think our only hope here you know what I just realized man what the last episode we put out we recorded it the day before Passover started I know and this one we're recording the day after which means we're the most Jewish podcast you're more Jewish than you think yeah we were taking a bow Passover break. We said that's why.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because because sardonic dirtbag satire is Hamid. Yeah, that's right. We didn't want to be trafe. Well, because we don't want to, you know, because it's about no leavened bread. So we're not going to leaven any. We're not going to. We're not going to add any levity.

No levity. No levity during Passover. That is actually that actually. You're the real good Jews. That's right. Finally. Finally. I'm going to become a good Jew.

Thank you. Thank you. I'll quote you on that. And you out there, listening. to this, watching this, you're also good Jews. Some of them are better than others. Gooder than others? Some are more good.

Some are gooder. That's how it works. Want to tell them how to get gooder? You can get gooder by going to patreon.com slash bad hasbara and joining, subscribing to that. Because you know what? That helps us out. We get to keep doing this podcast and not having to explain to our families, you know, why we do

podcasting. us gulp or we give you guilt. That's right. It's gelt or guilt out here and we will guilt you. It's a gelt. Don't test us. Patreon.com slash badass bar one more time, letting you know. And also badhousebar at gmail.com for all of your questions, comments, concerns, please send those voice memos in because I want to hear from you guys. I want to hear some stories from people. And when we do get these voicemails, I fucking love them. And sometimes I'll play them on the show. And all right, everybody. Thanks again so much for listening.

Thank you, Daniel, so much for being here. Thank you, Adar, so much for being here. Thank you so much for having me. I was excited to be part of the world's most moral podcast. Yes, you were the most moral guests on the world's most moral podcast. I was waiting for you to say that. I thought you were saying that I'm beginning. I thought I did.

Did I forget to? Wait a minute. I was like, maybe I'm not most moral. I, sorry, this whole time I thought I was on the world's most oral podcast. Oh, shit. No, that's down the whole. I just, this is a joke about my wife. All right.

Thanks so much for listening. Until next time, from the river to the sea. Everyone go hug a Mizrahi. Yay! Oh! Jumping jacks was us. Push-ups was us. Godmaga us.

All karate us. Taking Molly us. Michael Jackson us. Yamaha keyboards. Us. Georgia binks on us. Andor was us. Keith Ledger Joker us.

Endless friends success. Happy meals was us. McDonald's was us, being happy us, Equim yoga us, eating food, us, breathing air, us, drinking water us. We invented all that shit. Thank you.