Bad Hasbara - The World's Most Moral Podcast - Bad Hasbara 29 - Zionist Math, with Mohammad Qasem

Episode Date: May 23, 2024

This week, Matt and Daniel talked to Palestinian and most moral comrade of the pod Mohammad Qasem about what it was like growing up in the occupied West Bank and more.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/bad-hasbara/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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Hello and welcome to Bad Hasbara, the world's most moral podcast. My name is Matt Lieb. I will be your most moral host for this podcast. I am so stoked for all of you to be joining us right now, listening on all of the apps that are out there. Spotify or Apple. over watch pod guys pocket pussies all the ones where you listen and you hear the advertisements for whatever fertilizer i don't care uh and that helps obviously generate a little bit of revenue makes this show possible because we have families um i just want to let everyone know

who is listening to the podcast um that you can um you can like write reviews and stuff on the Apple podcast app you can be like hey here's five stars and here's some nice things so why don't you do that that's very nice it's helpful um it lets people know that the podcast exists it helps the algorithm or something i don't know so do it say something nice give us five stars don't do one star as a joke please it's not funny i mean it's no don't just don't do not five stars you can do five stars and then call me a piece of shit that That's okay, but don't do the thing where you... And then also patreon.com slash bad has bar

if you want to support the show that's very helpful and we love it. And we appreciate all of you who do that. Very cool of you. And you know, you're hearing this first because everyone on Patreon gets to the podcast early. For those of you watching, thank you for looking at me.

I'm wearing a shirt that says Settrials. It's from the Sopranos. and you're you know you get to see it so that's nice for you um and finally shout out to the reddit everyone who is at r slash badass barra were still around they have not yet kicked us off the platform which is very cool um shout out to all the mods there and then shout out finally to our producer adam levin the greatest man in existence he made bagels this weekend and They looked delicious.

I didn't mean to rhyme there. So, thank you to him for keeping the show going. All right, it is time to introduce our most moral co-host for the podcast. He is my main man, my number one guy, my favorite, favorite person in the world. I love him more than my wife. I'm just kidding. Ladies and gentlemen, everyone else, Daniel Maté is here. Hello. Hello, hello. What's up?

What's up? I'm good. I'm good. I'm appreciating that you've got a pork on your chest as a way of saying self-hating Jew? Absolutely. Right here. Yeah, I got a big piggy right here. Just right at my heart. It's letting people know that, you know, just because you're not kosher doesn't mean you can't criticize Israel. It's true. You know, listen. It's true. It also means you're not halal, but... I'm also not halal, you know? It's, I am nothing. I am someone who enjoys bacon, and I don't, I'm not ashamed to admit it.

There's nothing wrong with that. I love piggies, and I love all you piggies out there listening to this podcast. You little voracious hogs are what keep this podcast going. When you were talking about the podcasting platforms, it occurred to me that someone really needs to make a, like a modern, contemporary science fiction movie like revenge of the pod people yeah yeah like the thing the things that come out of the pods are podcasters

oh my god that's scarier than actual aliens yeah exactly they emerged from the alien pods and they all have this like sort of ironic cadence and they reference Twitter all the time they're like Jamie could you play that clip oh no he's coming after us it's just a bunch of people

our sponsors are magic mind will give you an energy boost smash the like button like subscribe and buy merch merch link in bio they say as they're trying to eat your brain yeah yeah those are the best pod people yeah man yeah how are you doing you're feeling good you I know it's hot there

you had your air conditioning on, and you had to turn it off. I'm trying to survive with the windows open. Yeah, it's starting to get higher. I'm good. I had acupuncture this morning. Oh. I walked into my acupuncturist's office,

who's this, she's a little Korean woman who, like, can sense my energy as I come up the stairs. Mm-hmm. And she's already drawing on this piece of paper. She's like, are you feeling, I won't do her. Yeah, don't do. accent. It's very cute.

I'm trying to do a cute accent. I know, I know. Korean accent. You saw me going there. No, but she's like, are you, are you feeling a sort of whirlpool in your chest? And I was, I tapped into it. I'm like, I guess I kind of am. Like I was feeling kind of anxious and whatever.

She's like, I knew it. I knew it. My energy readings are always accurate. She's this tiny woman who's just very, very, like, cocky about her. She's got acupuncture swag, you know? That's good. Anyway, she gave me a treatment. and at the end of it, I came to a place of spaciousness and relative calm and peace,

and I'm trying to preserve that throughout the day. So, you know. I love it. I love that, man. Matt, don't kill my vibe. Yeah, yeah. I mean, listen, I have never done acupuncture. I'm scared of it.

I don't know where, like, they put the needles, but I'm afraid, you know what I mean? Do they put a needle near your dick? I don't know. I don't need to know. I don't need to know. But do they? Not in my experience, no. Okay, thank God.

Someone has only taken something sharp to my dick once in my life. And it was a moyle? Yeah, and it was nine days into the whole affair. Since then, no sharp objects. No sharp objects. You get that, you would get that tattooed, but then that'd be a sharp object near your dick. No, the needles are really small. I mean, I know, but it's just like,

usually they, there's just a little bit of pressure. If it hurts, it's a sign that that's a pressure, that that's an acupuncture point that's releasing energy. Like I had it, I've had it in my forehead many times, but one time in particular, that same spot really hurt. And she's like, that's your anger coming out. Yeah, but you're angry because she's stabbing you in the forehead. That's why you're angry.

Yeah, but then the needle is there to take care of it immediately. Okay. Unless that needle is filled with. heroin just kidding don't do drugs but if it is then i you know cool but otherwise i don't understand it dog but i'm glad it centers you and i'm sure that if i did it i would like it but at this point in my life i just uh if i avoid all needles it's a good thing for those of you new to the podcast i am 14 years clean and sober from doing intravenous drugs oh i didn't realize that was your thing oh yeah that was my thing oh yes oh okay i'm

now you're now everything makes fervent opposition to it makes a lot more sense I knew you were clean and sober I didn't know from what Oh yeah yeah yeah well you know No acupuncture for you

Yeah yeah you know it's just Too many feelings you know I mean But anyways this is a podcast About serious stuff Congrats on the 14 years seriously Thank you thank you I appreciate it man you know Keep coming back

It's hey it works Except for you know You have to deal with every feeling genuinely feelings feelings suck um but it is time to introduce today's most moral guest this is the least hilarious cold open we've ever done i thought it was great i thought we talked about heroin we talked about dick stuff we're doing a great job it's a sign that the podcast is growing and deepening you know yeah dude we're getting deep with it um talking about recovery talking about uh getting stabbed with a bunch of needles um our most moral guests today

is someone who I met pretty recently at an action in Los Angeles. And this is someone who is a Palestinian who is just, we had a lot of great conversations, and I was very excited that he wanted to go on the podcast. Without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, everyone else, our guest today is Mohamed Qasem. Hi, I'm still thinking of the needles that you guys were talking about. Are we going to talk about needles or Hasbara today?

Yeah, listen, we're talking about both. Sometimes it's Hasbara, sometimes we go back into where exactly the acupuncture needles go into. This is the nature of this pod. It's not a great podcast, but it is one that exists. Why don't we talk about the less sharp thing, which is the Hasbara? Because it's getting a lot less sharp by the day. Yeah, it's pretty bad.

But it's also. dull. Yes, exactly. So Muhammad, thank you, first of all, for coming on the podcast. I really appreciate it. I wanted to introduce our audience to you and just kind of get into some of your history. So tell us about yourself. You are from the West Bank. Is that correct? Yeah. I was born in Ramallah, but I grew up in a small village called Tenjal, basically near Ramallah. Without checkpoints, without apartheid, there will be 15 minutes drive, but with everything that is happening on the status quo, it's basically 45 minutes, roughly, from Ramallah. To Jerusalem, it's 30 minutes without checkpoints, but I've never been there, so I mean,

I've been once when I grew up, but I don't know how much it takes to drive to Jerusalem straight from there. Wow. So you're saying from the town that you grew up in, to get to Ramallah, it is, because of the checkpoints, it goes from a 15-minute drive to a 45. That's, that is, that's insane. So now, from my understanding, following a lot of smart people on the internet, Israel is not an apartheid state. So my question to you is, why are you lying about your lived experience? Well, I love to be a victim. So do I, man. Yeah. No, but on a serious note, this whole discourse of apartheid or not apartheid,

and the majority of it comes from Israelis who never been to the West Bank, or basically Americans who just watch and consume mainstream media. Way before Amnesty International talked about apartheid and the documents and the chapters and the pages of how Israel is committing apartheid. We've always, as Palestinians, said that this is an apartheid system that is applied on Palestinians. You have people like me with a green ID card. I have it in my closet.

It's expired. So this green ID card basically, the people of the West Bank and Gaza, we hold it, and it's part of the Palestinian Authority, and it's basically the lowest tier of citizens on the land. And then you have Lesothesei, which is Palestinians in Jerusalem, who hold travel documents that I have the Israeli citizenship, and then you have Palestinians in 48 with an Israeli citizenship. The majority of the time the talking point is about us when it comes to apartheid. They go like, well, you're not part of Israel, so therefore we shouldn't be applying this terminology on you.

But one thing people don't pay attention to is all our lives from basically attending a school to attending a college, to going to the grocery store, paying your electricity bills, to purchasing anything in Palestine and the West Bank is monitored by Israel. and it's not the civil procedures of Israeli courts. It's basically military martial laws that applies to Palestinians. So there are many examples. I can keep on going on how it's an apartheid, but I can't attend Israeli schools. And my point about going to Ramallah and why it takes 45 minutes, it's not only checkpoints.

Checkpoints is one aspect of it, but then you have street closures, because some roads are built for the Jewish settlers in the West. Right. And other roads are only for Palestinians and they go all the way around all the mountains and like they give us the basically less infrastructure roads to drive over there. Right. Now, you know, what's wild is that in Hebrew, they have a word for their policy. It's hafrada, which literally means separation, which is what a part of apartheid means.

Is apartheid in... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the, I think that's the literal Dutch or Afrikaner definition of, right? Apart, I would think that... Right, sure. I would think that that's the etymology. I had to look it up. But literally, within Israeli political society, there's been, you know, advocating for

a positive policy called Haferda, which is to separate. get the Palestinians away from us, you know, and the regime that you were born under was the consequence of that policy. And more recently, Betzelem, the Israeli human rights organization, put out a report and the title of it was a, what is it, a Jewish supremacist regime from the river to the sea, essentially erasing this notion that, oh, well, you're not really in Israel. So no, Israel extends its dominion over the entire territory, just under radically different legal and military schemas. Right. So producer Adam has pointed out apartheid in like Dutch or Afrikanes literally means apartness.

That is. Apartness, yeah. Yeah, which means separation. Which means, yes. that's it's just that's absolutely crazy i did not know that the uh the the the hebrew branded word for it was essentially apartness that is it was sinus math is different if a a equals b and b equals c then a and c are opposites and you're anti-semitic and you try to say they're the same i love zionis math it's like girl math but more evil um you've never heard of girl math

I've never heard of girl math. Yeah, so you have to be more online. But, yeah, I mean. I know, I know that the woman I'm dating is much better at math than I am. Yeah, yeah. No, I don't believe girl math is necessarily about girls being bad at math. I think it's more about, like, you know, get it. Listen, it's the internet.

There's probably a lot of misogyny around the world's words girl math. But I'm just saying. So I want to ask, you know, so one of the things you were talking about is in terms of the different civil, like, law enforcement structures of the West Bank, you know, and how they talk about a Palestinian civil society that, you know, is supposed to, or a Palestinian civil authority that is supposed to govern, you know, its citizens, quote unquote. and that is all superseded by this Israeli military like law enforcement structure and so what was your experience growing up with kind of like these two versions of the police that existed

Palestinian Authority and the you know is really military. I'm trying to think about basically how to answer it. Yeah. Well, you know, like when you grow up in a system that basically force you to adopt into

different mechanisms where you're always seen as a target or you're always seen as the subject of brutality I think as like normal humans, you situation yourself to not only adapt to it, but to be acceptable with the idea. So majority of us in the West Bank are, I would say, like, not numb, but in a way we just, like, think that this is the reality that any person is living under. I didn't know what normal was before leaving Palestine. But to answer your question about both policing, I think the Palestinian Authority is necessary. like its existence is necessary to the Palestinians,

especially as a representative to the International Committee or to basically advocate for human Palestinians, humans rights. And to that point, today Spain declared the Palestinian state and that's because of the amount of work that the Palestinian Authority and other Palestinian officials have put into the international institutions. But policing within the Palestinian Authority is normal. It's like any other society,

if I'm speed driving within Ramallah, it's done. They might stop me and, like, you know, a ticket, that's it. When it comes to the Israeli police, when, like, you don't get thought this. It's just, like, human nature. You're always on higher alert when you're dealing with Israeli police. Number one, they treat you like a subhuman. So it gives you the idea of maybe I'm wrong, right? So you always try to appeal to them to be like, hey, I'm a human,

And like, look at me, I'm not, I'm not dangerous. I'm not Makhraibin. They call us Makhraibin. What does that mean? Living, basically, agents of chaos or barbarics or savages. Jeez. I like agents of chaos. Wow.

Daniel, you're muted. Oh, I was going to say, I would love to be called a chaos agent. Yeah, that's sound. Barbarian and savage, not so much. But if I was like, if I had to be like, you know, every time I walk down the street a cop's like chaos agent I'd be like yeah but yeah I mean that sounds like a metal band name so that's exactly the other ones are just classic colonialism yeah oh but chaos of agent to them basically the term itself in Arabic is basically

a softer terminology from a terrorist so yeah yeah yeah yeah presumed guilty Right. And your existence to them is the terrorism. I mean, that's the thing, right? It's not what you've done. It's about your identity and your... Yeah, or how they perceive you. So any movement you do on a checkpoint or just walking by,

you have to be very cautious of how you talk to Israeli police. And the majority of the time, let me be honest with you, we don't deal with Israeli police, because Israeli police is for Israeli Jewish citizens. Right. civil law. What we deal with is basically border patrol and military, like Israeli occupation forces. And what's funny enough, majority of these people are fluent in Arabic. I assume they're Arab Jews or Mizrahi Jews because I know a lot of people don't like to be called Arab Jews.

And the Ethiopian Jewish population too. So they put, like if you look at the dynamic of the Israeli society, and that's like what the Palestinians are talking about when we say. It stems from white supremacy and Western colonialism. The structure of Israel itself is not different than America or any other colony on planet Earth. You have the Ashkenazi Israelis on the top tier of basically privilege. And if you're in the IDF as an Ashkenazi person of descent, you will be the commander, somebody in the office, right? But then they put Ethiopians and people of color, Jewish people of color, where the Makhraibin, which is the top. terminology for terrorists. So we deal with these people. And the majority of these people are

not only brainwashed. I think they're inherently hateful towards the Palestinians for some reason. Many times on checkpoints, I was threatening to be handicapped. Or if I'm basically standing on a, and when I talk about checkpoints, it's not like a border between Mexico and the United States. Or if you've ever been to Cyprus, like there are borders between northern side of Cyprus and the southern side that is monitored by the UN. Now, these checkpoints are extremely humiliating. They're like devices that you walk into that roll your body and then you have like fences around you and it's just like, you know, you stand there for hours with 17 and 18 and 19 year old

American Jewish soldiers who are making fun of you, humiliating you, asking you to take off your clothes and just like, you know, laughing at you. So that's my experience with the Israeli police. Right. Yeah. I mean, you brought up something that I wanted to talk about with regard to kind of like the Ashkenazi supremacy, the white supremacy within, you know, Palestine and, you know, occupied Palestine in Israel.

And the way in which kind of like the white or white passing, the European Jews kind of are at the top tier. So I was thinking about this recently in terms of, and I've thought about this a lot, in terms of even in the United States the way it works within Jewish society, it being the exact same thing, because obviously we're a white supremacist nation,

the United States. And I feel like, that also actually, you know, applies to even within the, I would say, like the anti-Zionist Jewish cohort, like us, where, you know, since the seventh, people have been more and more, you know, becoming more and more vocal. And I notice that the voices that are lifted up, tend to not be Palestinian voices, they tend not to be Arab voices, they tend to be people like me or like Daniel, like white, European Ashkenazi Jews who are, you know, like I consider myself correct and actually moral, but also...

I identify as good. I identify as good. I mean, so do the liberal Zionists. But just in terms of your experience, you know, since I come to the United States in the last few months, you know, I'm not asking, you know, like, you to air any, all your resentments or whatnot. But I do, I do want to ask, like, what is it like to be, like, when you see the amount, the sheer amount of white Ashkenazi, you know, anti-Zionist Jews who are the ones who get the platform, the ones who get to go on democracy now, or they get to go on, you know, be the face of these movements. Like, how, yeah, how does that make you feel?

This sounds very insecure of me. Is this okay? Is what I'm asking? No, but, like, what have you noticed in terms of that? Yeah, no, definitely I noticed what you're talking about, the lefting of voice. First of all, that I need to say that allyship is extremely important, especially nowadays. We appreciate, or I don't want to speak on behalf of all Palestinians, but personally I appreciate voices that are lifting my voice up, right? Bodies that are privileged by a system to basically

put themselves in the forefront of Palestinians. Because before October 7th, and let's be honest, you barely heard, not barely heard about Palestine, but you barely heard this amount of discourse about Palestine. Even like me in college, I was basically asked to just keep it quiet, you know, like don't mention Palestine because we don't want to make any other community uncomfortable in the classroom or in the workplace. So what I'm seeing is makes me happy most of the time. I really appreciate allyship. But me, myself, have been an ally before. And I know my boundaries as an ally to other communities, right? To the African American community in America during BLM protest and the murder of George Floyd

or even to the feminist movement as a male, a cis male. You have to know your boundaries. Your role over there is basically lifting up the voice, not speaking on behalf. But one thing to your point, I want to mention, this is embodied in a system that has been built on always basically spreading the Oriental rhetoric about people like me.

And by Oriental rhetoric, I'm talking about, what Edwards Thay talked in his book about Orientalism and how you deem to see people from the east. Basically, and if you notice the narrative that came from broadcast media in America after the Ukraine war, they literally called us uncivilized and barbaric. When they compared us to Ukraine,

they said, these are Europeans, these are white people, they drive the same cars we drive as if we don't have cars in Palestine or Syria and Lebanon. And one important thing when I talk about, Palestinians are not unique. We're not the only suffering nation

on planet earth. Yes, we're the only occupation in modern history, but you barely hear these same people, and I don't want to even talk about the anti-Zionist Jews on their own. I'm talking about, in general, Arab allies and Muslim allies and white allies, you're not talking about Syria. So it makes me doubt your intention over there. Are you jumping a bandwagon up basically a trend that is happening right now? Or are you actually, do you care actually, or is it just selective. And my opinion, personally, I actually,

I'm not very happy of the centering of these voices for two reasons. Number one, it basically enforces the idea that if a white Jewish person spoke against Zionism, their voice is more important than Muhammad Qasem. Who's a Palestinian? Speaking on that, I was a victim to that in college. And this is a process. that takes a lot of us to basically go through,

which is the decolonization of mind. Me personally writing academic papers in college in the United States or overseas, I always tended to look for articles that are basically purely reviewed by white European historians because it's more credible in the eyes of the institution that are men. And that goes into the bigger microscope, which is basically the system we live in,

is built on capitalism, white supremacy, and it goes down from there. So that's like I love that allies and I urge everybody to speak on Palestine and be on the right side of history. But if you have the opportunity to basically put a Palestinian to talk about what they exactly go through because we of all people know what we want. And I hear majority of the time we hear allies talking about a two-state solution or this is a Muslim cause or this is an Arab cause. And to be honest with you, these people, by these people, by these people, people I'm talking about allies, they're not

very equipped with how to deal with Zionists. And by that I'm talking about, and you can stop me if you want to ask me anything, but I want to take you into like a different talking point that is very important. Talking to Zionists is an art that you have to master. Yes.

I'm serious. I'm serious. And I always hear people talking about why don't you sit with them on tables and talk. And I was like, I'm against this idea because as the San Kenapani said back in the days, you can't be the neck to the sword on a table with a person who has the higher power to you. So personally speaking, I wouldn't ask a black American to sit with a KKK member on the same table

to have discourse, right? Or a Jewish person to sit with a Nazi on the same table and talk about why we should live together or why we deserve freedom and justice and equality. So what is the art then? Because you're outlining the problem with it and the problem with anyone expecting you to do it. I mean, look, just to back up for a second, then I'll come back to that question. Everything you're saying about allyship and selective allyship and, you know,

when do allies show up? Look, before October 7th, what was I saying about all this shit publicly? Nothing. I hadn't been talking about this publicly for 20 years except on Facebook to my limited friend group. Every time Israel goes in and mows the lawn in Gaza, I'll share Democracy and our reports.

I'll share Norman Finkelstein. I'll share Rashid Khalidi. You know, I'll share whoever I think is credible and good. But that's just the big conflagrations. That's not the everyday humiliations and indignities and encroaching ethnic cleansing of the West Bank and the starvation of Gaza. I haven't been doing anything about it.

Since October 7th, I have. I am not going to sit here and make excuses for that. I'm not going to beg for forgiveness. But what I will say is, if I have any role to play as the kind of person who's going to draw attention as an anti-Zionist Jew. It's to drive a wedge through the illusion of Jewish unanimity on this and to show people that there's a difference between being Jewish and being Zionist

not just to say, oh, there's some of us who are good, but actually to break up the entire Zionist premise that this is about Jews versus Muslims or Jews versus the world. No, this is about a political ideology that's about domination and control based on ethnic supremacy versus those who don't think that's a good thing. So if I have a role to play, it's in some ways to draw fire

and to also, what can I say? Be a living refutation of the distorted lies that Zinibs is built on. And then also, whatever I can do with the platform that I build, and I'm shocked at the way my platform's grown, yes, then to also platform and lift up the voices of people who can actually speak to their experience on the ground, of which I have absolutely no first-hand experience.

No, definitely. I just want to add to your point, Daniel. I totally agree with you. Your voice is extremely important, especially to me as a Palestinian who grew up in the West Bank. And the only representation, basically, the Jewishness was the Israeli tank with the start updated on it or the Israeli soldier. with the start of David on their shoulders. So me seeing people like you speaking on my behalf

or like to lift my voice up is really important to always like remind me that Israel is working tirelessly. I'm hijacking this identity of a group of people. And basically it's the steamer of anti-Semitism. It's basically the engine of, you know what? Like we're doing this in the name and the safety of the Jewish people,

but it's coming on my behalf. I just want to add something quickly to your point as much as your voice is important. into the cause and my voice as a white passing man is important in any other cause. One thing that we have to all remember as allies or pay attention to and we don't pay attention to is the tapping out option that we have. So me as a white person in America, yeah, me as a white person in America, I can be an advocate for freedoms and basically end of systemic racism and end of police brutality.

But every day, my friends call me and be like, hey, let's hit that bar or let's do this or let's, like, read a book or watch a movie. I have the option to do it and just ignore the systemic racism that is happening in America. Go by my life, use my privilege, and then tap in back, and it's the same with the Palestine pause, right? You said before October 7th I was sharing here and there, you had the privilege of tapping up.

I didn't. That's right. Before October 7th and after October 7th, every day I go to put my head on the pillow to sleep. I'm worried about my phone ringing at 3 a.m. to basically inform me of losing. a family member in the West Bank or in Gaza, right? So we don't have that

option, and it's important to center our voices and not cater into a bigger picture of white supremacy and systemic racism. Because as much as your voice is important as a white passing man, also my voice as a Palestinian is important, and the

voice of black people is important. We're all equal. And here comes like the discussion of basically democracy and morals and ethics and equality, but that is something we lack. in America big time and then I really was that we like it when we got here

but I would like to go back to the point of talking to Zionists as an art yes please yeah yeah that that was that was yeah as I said I'm against that but once you move to America you get gaslighted into doing it

and by that I'm talking about white professors in your college basically looking at you as you're an alien who's like really but listen Muhammad in America we appreciate free speech in America we appreciate discourse maybe you didn't have it back there and you hear many people on the news saying you're not used to women

talking like they told dr. Mustafa al-Barruthi during one of the interviews right and I got I get that along with it on Twitter spaces or basically any other had they ever heard of Hanana Shrawe yeah the first Palestinian spokesperson I remember from my youth was was Hanana Shrawe one of the sharpest political commentary she was my taters anywhere was she was your neighbor she was my neighbor oh my god amazing she's great yeah but to the art so when you come to America you get gaslighted into doing it and I was like you know what let me leave the box basically my pride or yes I understand the political correctness of not

debating but let me try I went into a debate you guys and I was fresh like I was a virgin to speaking to Zionists as I shall say. And I was talking just like I'm talking to you guys. I'm talking about my experience, livid experiences. I'm not bringing anything that is like imaginary or just making up stories. This is my life and this is what I went through

and the first thing I got, you're like, Muhammad, we love you so much. That's how they start. I guarantee you if you watch every single Israeli Zionists on any spectrum of political aspect, they all talk the same, but with different.

Yeah, different language. So we love you so much. We want Palestinians to be prosperous. We want safety for you. We support a two-state solution. And I go like, okay, thank you. I don't know that you love us, but thank you. But Muhammad, can I tell you something?

You're talking about checkpoints and everything. But you know that the security fence, which is the apartheid world, was built to protect the Jews from the 500 terrorist attacks that your people did on us. as pre-entifathers. That was the first time I got that question and I was like, well, you think of it as a security fence, then we're

way beyond each other from their talking points. Then you don't love me. Yeah, they go on and on and on. And one day I was like, I'm really curious. Is it like, it sounds like a broken radio map and Daniel. It's like, it's

like extremely weird in a way that you're like, I'm really curious. Like, is it in their education system? I went on Google and I found something I want you both to look it up. It's extremely amazing and you will be sharp. It's called the Global Language Dictionary, Israel, 2009. I think I've seen it. I have not.

It's called the Global Language Dictionary. Israel, 2009. This is a document of 18 chapters and I promise you, I skimped through them and you don't even have to read it because you hear it all the time. It's basically the protocol. It's basically the protocols of the propagandists of Zion. Yes. The first chapter of it is basically, when you talk to Palestinians in front of Americans, make sure that we need more support to Israel.

And by that, we have enough allies, but we're one of them leaving, and we need more people coming in. First of all, as a country, why do you have to have a book to basically make people loving you unless you're doing something wrong, right? Right. The second thing is, always talk about how passionate and loving you are to the other side. And any time, literally, you guys, verbatim, anytime you're in a corner, during a debate with the Palestinian, bring up Hamas and IRGC back terrorist militia groups in Palestine

to basically make the Americans understand the threat of terrorism that we as Israeli Jews are going through. So this is the art that they have. And for us Palestinians, we don't have any books. It's my little experience, and by art to debating Zionists, I'm talking about, you expect every Palestinian on a panel or every Palestinian in any work setting or a college setting to be basically an expert on politics, expert in history, an expert on military laws, an expert on apartheid, an expert on genocide, and every time you say a statement that is based on your real livid experience, you will have the focus on semantics. And it's coming by all people of like

different political, like Emily Schneider, for example, will always focus on Iran, right? This woman, who is a paid agent by the Israeli government, her only focus is Iran. So no matter what talking point is a Palestinian, I'm telling her, she would be like, but Iran is funding your people. Iran is a terrorist regime. Hamas is a terrorist regime, and the Palestinians are not working with us. I mean, we tried working with you, as you're saying, referring to you as us, if you're meaning Yitzhak Rabin when the

Palestinian side the Oslo Accord and we agreed on stuff that we shouldn't have agreed on and then who breached it who assassinated its hat Rabin but they always basically circle the tables and put you as a as the obstacle to everything

they're going through and what's helping them a lot is the system that is built which is a colonial system right the second you mentioned terrorism everything in the Western eye drops every talk point is that every factual basically reality I talked about will drop the second one Israeli Zionist will go like one of the Sabaro bombing or October 7th for example that's why

we see a lot of current debates whether on peers or whether on CNN or ABC the first question you ask a Palestinian or a pro-Palestinian do you condemn Hamas what do you think of October 7th and I've never a person good good Israeli pronunciation of Hamas by the way that's That's exactly how they say it. I hear it all the time. Say it for us, no, but say it for us, just for the record. How is it said in Arabic? Oh, in Arabic?

In Arabic, yeah. Hamas, yeah. Hamas, yeah. Hamas, yeah. But back to my point, I never seen Pierce Morgan or any of these Israeli politicians standing with a German person and basically, saying, do you condemn Hitler and the Nazi party when they did back in 1940s?

Or a white American condemning the KKK. Or a Jewish person, for that matter, condemning the IDF or condemning the Kahana movement. Many people don't know what Kahanism even is. Right. If you look into the history of mere Kahana. Yeah, he's like, it was labeled as terrorism, but nobody has asked this question but the palace.

He grew up a few, yeah, he grew up like a few blocks from where I'm sitting. At some point, we will do an episode on Meyer Kahana and we'll get into Kahanism for everyone. It'll be, if you don't know the history of the Jewish Defense League, is that what they are, J.D.L. Right? Yeah. Then it'll be, I think, illuminating for a lot of you. You know, I have to say the whole charming you with love thing, I was shocked at how effective it was on my. little brain because I think I'm pretty sharp, sharp cookie, no, smart cookie.

You're the sharpest cookie in the show. I'm in the sharp. The cookie show. I'm the shit. I'm the shit, exactly. But I did this Instagram discussion debate with Rudy Rockman. Rudy Rockman back in October, you know, and this is, I was new to this. And I got contacted by someone who works for him.

We thought my views were interesting. And they, they thought that it was. might be an interesting conversation. So I went on Instagram live and talked to this guy for two and a half hours. Yeah. And he, you know, I think ultimately the consensus among people who have seen it is that I did some kind of service by letting, giving him a chance to expose how empty his talking points are by standing up on some of the facts and by ultimately drawing some kind of moral line in

the sand. But I'll tell you, I didn't feel very good about it. I he turned me around with a whole lot of listen my Jewish brother the Palestinians are our cousins and you know we really want peace and it's a tragedy and I'm looking forward to a day when we can this and that and there's a kind of emotional um what can I say? Seduction manipulation that goes on and it was pretty upsetting for me in the days afterwards to realize that that I mean I didn't I didn't I didn't didn't fall for it. It's not like he convinced me.

No, but he certainly he certainly tied my mind up in knots for long enough to say a whole bunch of bullshit that I wish I had been sharper on. Yeah. And and and, and, and, I, but also one of the reasons why, uh, Zionists do this, but especially, specifically, uh, with, um, other Jews, um, is because it puts you in the position of, um, it not being a discussion about the you know just the blunt morality of occupation the morality of occupation

the morality of doing apartheid of doing ethnic cleansing it puts you he is letting you he's putting you in a position of having to turn your back on a brother that's what he's doing so if you are going to be for this you know Palestinian cause

you know you are turning your back on your people That's why it's effective. And then the other side is also incredibly, it feels good to be a part of a brotherhood of all Jews. Like, you know, you're seduced by that. So your choice is either turn your back on your people or join the warm embrace of your people. And it's really insidious. I think that is, you know, specifically when it comes to the way Jews talk.

to anti-Zionist Jews. The Zionist Jews talk to anti-Zionist Jews. It is incredibly insidious. You know, I want to comment quickly about this person, Rudy Rahman. Although he doesn't deserve my energy, the breath that I'm giving him. And every time that we're giving him, but I really want to comment on him because it's very manipulative. And many other Zionists are basically using the same tactics. When he talks to anti-Zionist Jews, he touches the aspect of where, like,

a community and I understand that like Jewishness as a community is something really rich and by the way I attended my first Shabbat with some JVP members and friends that I have here in LA and it was awesome anti-Zionist Jews

so like I understand the community aspect to it but when he talks to us Palestinians he basically all Arabs he starts touching on the point of cousins as you mentioned before or for example he will bring up stuff that like we have in common or they stole from us

like Israeli salad hummus kibaniya Arayas you know and he was like oh you lived in Ramallah do you like

Bandali falafel because he went to Ramallah and he like but besides all that I want to say something quickly about this type of category of Zionists and I have categories for them

this is the soft-spoken loving appealing person who also served in the idea of by the way he's a YouTuber who served in the IDF. He joined the Gaza attack after October 7th. Yes. Oh, when we were speaking, he was sitting on an army base while we were speaking. Yeah. So he's a soldier who's basically not only complicit. He's taking part in the genocide of the Palestinians. That's right.

But let's put all that aside. And I want to ask Rudy Rahman a question, although he doesn't deserve it, but I'll give it to him. If you actually care about the Palestinians, And that's not only to Rudy Rahman, any person in Israel who's a Zionist and who claims to love their cousins or the Palestinians and basically working towards peace. Where are you? Where are you on the checkpoints when I'm basically being humiliated and dragged by Israeli soldiers solely for being a Palestinian? Where is your body? Because allyship is not only you telling me that we have common culture of eating kibba and khmus and Israeli salad. solidarity, if you bring your body, put it in front of mine and use your privilege and prevent

your cousin and uncle and nephew and nieces, there are on the checkpoints with M16s from pointing a gun in my head. That's the only way I will basically be like, you know what, Rudy, you deserve my time that's set and talk when I see you in action. But you don't see any of these Israelis protecting Palestinians. We have like a fraction of the community, which is basically standing together and I'll put that aside because I have a lot of comments on standing together but they're trying right but it's too late it's too late where have you been when the antifada happened and you always find justification for it you always know like well it was chaotic but no you're privileged and you're complicit to apartheid and you're complicit to occupation yeah you know what's

interesting is that uh I I like that you know I mean you see the brutality of you know, these soldiers like Rudy Rockman, you know, uh, when they're at the checkpoint or when they are joining in in the, uh, military invasion and genocide and ethnic cleansing of Gazans in October. Um, but then when they're talking to you on a Facebook live, um, I like that, you know, what they're trying to do is like, kill you with kindness. Like that is, that's like part of Krav Maga is killing you with kindness. You know how they say, like, an Israeli soldier, they can kill you with your hair. But, you know, it's like they can also emotionally gaslight you to the point of going, like, am I bad?

And I think that is, you know, that is also a weapon. It is the weapon of emotional manipulation when it comes to talking to Zionists is, I think, something that people, I think, grossly underestimate when they're trying to have these conversations. And I'm not someone who gives up on these conversations with Zionists in my private life because of the fact that I have no choice. I'm surrounded by Zionists. I mean, not like literally with settlements and stuff, but I mean, it's a different kind of surrounded. But, you know, in family and friends and colleagues and people I've known for years and years who are once reasonable people and me trying to tap into that reason and tap into the person. that I knew, but I do completely agree that it is an art to talk to Zionists because you have

to know what you're getting into. You have to know that what you're getting into is not an argument number one in good faith and number two in which your realities are the same. And that's why, you know, when you hear someone like, what was it, Emily Schrader, talk about, yeah, talk about Iran, I feel like that is an important point to note that even in the Zionists who don't specifically say Iran, an important place to come into any conversation with a Zionist is, who do you believe holds the power here? And that's something that is, you know, if they can't admit the power dynamic, if they can't say the power dynamic is Israel, is the occupying force

and Palestinians are the oppressed they are the victims if they can't admit to that then you're never going to get through you're never going to have a conversation in good faith you're never going to have a conversation which anyone gets anything out of it

other than venting some of the poisonous bullshit out of their system no you're not living in the same material reality and having a materialist analysis starts with who has the power a hundred percent my biggest my biggest regret after the Rudy conversation was not just that I'd been too nice to him

but that I hadn't specifically said okay brother if you're my brother if that's true and first of all I don't accept the premise that somehow you're more my brother than a Palestinian as necessarily I'm not going to accept that

dividing line that you're trying to arbitrarily draw that doesn't make you my brother because we both had a bar mitzvah, you know. But if you're my brother and they're my cousin and I see what you're doing to them, then brother, it's my fucking duty to stop you from doing that. That's right. And you do, you know, and I don't care what you say. I'm looking at what you're doing and none of your justifications for doing it, even if all of them were true and almost none of them are. But even if all of them were true, it wouldn't justify what you're doing. And I just, I just wish I'd had a

a harder, a firmer boundary there. But I learned, you know, I learned through that experience that that's what you need to come in with and be really, really aware that all they have is manipulation.

So you can't come in expecting to have a good faith conversation. Speaking of people who all they have is manipulation, it's time to be manipulated by an ad break. So listen to these ads. Are you, you someone who's run out of fertilizer, do you need your mind to be more magical? Have you not learned that we are boycotting McDonald's? Well, listen to these ads. Was your last

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We hope you enjoyed those ads. All right. Can I ask me a question just before we move on? Oh, please. I saw a film the other night by a Palestinian director who's named Sama Zawabi. It's called Tel Aviv on Fire. Have you seen it?

No. It's a very light It's very, very light, but I think quite poignant look at it takes place in Ramallah and it takes place on the set of a Palestinian soap opera about 1967

and there's like a Palestinian spy posing as an Israeli and it's about, but it's just very, very funny and there's a one of the core relationships in the movie is between a Palestinian guy from Ramallah who is always driving to try to get to, or maybe he lives in Jerusalem and he works in Ramallah, but he has to deal with this Israeli checkpoint and this particular Israeli commander

who's actually a Mizrahi Jew, like you said, very good Israeli actor plays him. I forget his name. The acting across the board is incredible. But the commander, his wife, is a huge fan of the soap opera. And the commander wants to have an influence on the plot of the soap opera because it's going to affect his relationship with his wife. You know?

And Palestinians love the soap opera and Israelis also watch the soap opera. It's not deep political analysis at all. You kind of have to dig for it. but there is a sense of the absurdity, at least. It's kind of Kafka-esque. Anyway, I wanted to recommend it to people. It's on Amazon Prime. What is it called one more time?

Tel Aviv on fire. I met the director the other night at a party, and I said with a title like that, you know, you got some people thinking it's a horror movie and some people thinking it's, you know, a light comedy. Yeah. Or a celebration of freedom. A celebration of life.

Yeah, yeah. And he said, that's why I made it. That's very funny. But I want to talk to us today and to the audience about something that's been going on in Israel. I don't know if you guys know this, but there's this thing going on in Israel. A couple days ago, a Haaret's journalist near Hassan, Hassan, I don't know how to pronounce it, posted this video with this quote, right-wing activists stop Palestinian trucks in Jerusalem

and demand licenses from the drivers to make sure they are not carrying food for Gaza. And I have a video here. Now, journalist Barack Ravid responded with a quote tweet of this

stating quote Somalia in Jerusalem that's what he called this video Somalia in Jerusalem which like what the fuck does that what does that mean exactly like is he

is he comparing these Jewish terrorists to Somali pirates or like lawless Somali people, both of which I'm pretty sure would eat the food and not just tear it open and throw it out. I realize that it's not that deep. It's just merely him being racist.

But I would like to point out that that comparison makes no sense even from like a comedic standpoint or an interest. That is just racism. Liberal scientists are not good at analogies. No, they're not. It's actually like anti-black, if you look deeper into the basically analogy that he gave. And you refer to the ICC's ruling yesterday or two days ago.

I'm basically holding Bibi Nathanielo as a work criminal and issuing a arrest warrant for him. And did you hear what the white supremacist agents of our country said? They said the ICC was built for countries in Africa. That's right. And it should not touch Israel. And if it goes for Israel, it will come for us. You have a society, which basically we live in a democracy, right? And Israel.

And the people are representatives of their leaders, because you do a cycle of elections. So when he said this is Somalia, he's basically referring to it from a standpoint of anti-blackness, which is ghetto or barbaric or unsubilized. It's just a language that is extremely basically deep. humanizing and people all the time use of thinking it's funny it's not funny at all because the only people are prominent people whether in america or in their countries themselves then that goes to africa in general and to the middle east yeah and he's also well no he's also playing he's also playing on you know a stereotype that still doesn't make sense like

like it's there's something to me that's even more offensive about sloppy racism in the same way that like you know um the way in which um Palestinians are uh you know the the racism the anti uh Palestinian racism that happens is just so it's just completely sloppy it's like it's not even specific to you it's just like you know Arabs in general it's it's like more offensive because you You clearly know nothing about, I mean, in this case, he knows nothing about what Americans know about Somalia. And all we know is Tom Hanks movie about Somali pirates, Black Hawk Down, and starving. And so, like, he's, like, playing on nothing when it comes to this, like, level of, like, PR, where it's just, you know, this is, this is, it makes no sense to anyone other than a racist Israeli, uh, calling, you know oh look at this these you know we're acting like somalis zionist zionist uh criticize your

own without slagging off a darker people than you challenge challenge yes impossible um and i think what's even more offensive about this is this is not somalia in jerusalem this is jerusalem in jerusalem this israeli behavior this is and this is one of many videos that we've all been seeing for the last few months of Israeli citizens actively trying to stop what little aid is actually going to Gaza, some of which, you know, some of these videos I've played on this show, of them, you know,

like doing roadblocks with raves and people of all political stripes in Israel, you know, people who claim themselves to be leftist Israelis, joining hands with right-wing Israelis saying, you know, the one thing we all agree on, is we should not be giving aid to the starving people of Gaza. With a noble, with a noble exception of the group you mentioned standing together who recently were filmed going to these aid trucks, picking the food up, you know, repacking the trucks.

I mean, this is one way in which on the ground these people are trying to do something to push back impossibly against that overwhelming tide of genocidal mania. Yeah, it is hard. though, when it comes to standing together in me because I'm just, you know, I just they are the most too little, too late ass motherfuckers ever but I do appreciate... I'm not saying they're not.

No, no, no, no. I appreciate anything. I always appreciate anything. Yeah, I just, I, it is, it, I have to get past my own, you know, personal resentment towards complicity up into a point, you know? I hear you. Um, but,

you know, so, you know, I, I, I had posted this video that, Ravita shared and you know talking about how is someone keeping track of this

because at this point I can't really trust our own Western media to be the people who are going to actually like keep a log

of all of this constant social media visible evidence of these crimes committed in broad daylight by Israeli citizens not even by you know

like the IDF for fucking, you know, just like these are Israelis, people, you know, and so I pose the question, is someone keeping track of this? And then someone posed, you know, the obvious rejoinder to this, which is always, well, are you keeping track of the times Hamas has done this? Are you keeping track of the Hamas videos? and unfortunately for me I have very much so I mean you know as the most moral podcast in the world one of my jobs is to look at what Hasbarus post and I have seen these videos of Hamas disrupting

aid that are shared by you know all sorts of Hasbarist accounts and I want to do some side by side comparisons as to those videos versus the ones of Israelis stopping aid who destroyed the aid better yeah who destroyed the aid better yeah who who yes uh who ward it better uh there's something there um so uh here's um here's one of the videos this is uh from uh some has barist account who wrote hamas terrorists shoot live fire at gaza and civilians who came near the humanitarian aid trucks they were on hashtag gaza hashtag Ireland. And I'm going to play a little bit of that here. I don't know why the Titanic theme is playing in the background there. It is, you know,

So for those listening at home, what you see is men with armed men on tops of trucks and you hear some gunfire and a weird soundtrack. That was totally not added in post. Yeah. I mean, hey, listen, at one point, I see a muzzle flash. It's very possible, you know, that there was some live rounds being shot. we'll take it at face value and I think that's a point

I want to make about this is taking just these videos at face value and what kind of story that they tell. And so here is another one, armed Hamas terrorists take over aid trucks that entered northern Gaza on May 1st.

At least one or two terrorists were observed on each truck, some armed with weapons and some with clubs. The quote, free food aid is then sold. hashtag the Gaza you don't see again hashtag Ireland I don't know why they keep hashtagging

Ireland I do they're trying to say A2 Ireland because Ireland because Ireland just recognized Palestine because Ireland has joined the ICJ thing they're being like Ireland this is what you're supporting

it's basically CC in an email that's right yeah right CC Ireland you see what you're supporting but back Ireland's like you kind of me take Take me off the thread there. Could you unsubscribe me for a fucking second?

I'm trying to unsubscribe from these goddamn spam emails, showing me men on trucks. So, and I'll show that video. Here it is. So in that video, it is, it is guys on top of trucks that are moving and they're arms. Again, what we are seeing over and over in these videos is guys on trucks, and that's it. And listen, I'm not necessarily saying that I know whether or not these captions are accurate or anything, but what I'm saying is the caption seems to set the narrative. Without the caption, you actually don't see

anything that's going on. What you are seeing is guys on moving aid trucks, trucks that are moving with aid and there are armed guards on top of them and there's no narrative there's no clear narrative you can gleam other than they're trying to protect the aid so instead the cap what are you all are you all second amendment now for gaza you think the Palestinians have the right to bear arms while while while while while chaperoning aid trucks let's say they have a right you think they have a right to to to security forces or to feel like something might be insecure uh I believe believe that every man, woman, and child in the world should have a gun. No, but it's, you know, it's seeing those videos, I could see from one perspective of people going,

well, this is going to be an effective tool to paint Hamas as bad because look how scary it is to have armed guards on top of trucks. Some of them, you know, shooting live rounds. But then you see the Israeli videos and you go, oh, well, I kind of. get why you would want armed guards on these trucks and so here is some videos of Israelis

stopping aid from or attempting to stop aid from getting in to Gaza everyone who got me got me got he came up that red head somet nekhousal

to our soldiers abu we don't have left them but all the one who came here Everyone who came here as a hero, together we stopped the enemy, we couldn't stop them all, but we did our best. So in that video, you've got a guy actually saying exactly what they're doing. You are watching Israelis throwing the aid off the trucks and then telling you we are throwing aid off of trucks and stopping the trucks. And you see this over and over again, you know, these videos of people blocking aid trucks and talking about it, not in a way that's like where they explain we have to do this because X, Y, Z. But the video alone isn't, there's no caption necessary.

You see exactly from beginning to end what is going on. any single, like, still shot of these videos tells the whole story. There's another video I want to play. Israeli settlers attack humanitarian aid trucks on the way of the Gaza Strip last night. That is the entire caption, and I'm going to play that here.

So you see, In that video, an Israeli settler attacking a humanitarian aid truck on the way to the Gaza Strip last night. You know what's amazing. You say he's attacking it. He's standing on it. He's throwing big burlap sacks of flour onto the ground and stomping on it. But I'll tell you what, his bare hands in that context are more violent than the guns held by the armed guards who were escorting the aid trucks through a big, busy Gaza Street with the chaos of starving people and all this kind of stuff. I mean, this is again

the prerogatives of power in the position these people aren't. They don't need guns because the Israeli army and the Israeli police are going to let them do whatever they want and they can just casually go on here and destroy baby formula and pour out bottles of water and do whatever they want, right? They don't need to get dressed up like quote unquote terrorist. Their terrorism is in the power they have and their intent and the means they have to carry it out. Muhammad, what do you see when you see these videos? This is, as I mentioned before,

also professionalism in debating Zionist views. I want to go back to the Hamas, potential Hamas guards on top of the buses. First of all, we have to be clear all of us, whether in the United States or any other spot on planet Earth, of why do Palestinians need aid to begin with? It's not like we're underdeveloped of basically making our own food or getting our own import and export.

When you talk about sending Palestinians aid, why do you need to send us aid, right? Right. We all are capable and have the potential of becoming leaders and building our own factories. So the reasoning behind why you're sending aid is the big elephant in the picture. It's basically there is a problem in that area.

And therefore, the white tavers of humanity, which is America and other countries, are sending aid to Palestine. Real quick, I want to talk about basically a bigger picture of humanitarian aid. Put the settlers aside and put Israelis aside. Yesterday, Anthony Blanken threatened the Palestinian delegation at the UN that if you get Palestine fully recognized by International Committee, we're going to cut all aid to the Palestinian organizations including the world kitchen program or food

program. Right. And by that as a Palestinian, I find it extremely offensive when people talk about sending us humanitarian aid. I'm not there to be your charity project. I am. And I moved out of Palestine and I'm thriving. I don't need aid from anybody

as a matter of fact, my tax money and everything I do in this country is funding your weapons to maintain your basically American imperialist scenarios that you want to maintain in the Middle East you're using me for that right so that's number one number two when I talk about Gaza and Hamas in general first of all to all Israelis and I say on with the full chest I know we shouldn't generalize but allow me to generalize this time for all for all Israelis anything in Ghazda is

Hamas right a stone in Gaza is Hamas right a bird on the beach is also Hamas. So we have two questions over here if you actually want to be logical. If these guards on top of the buses are Hamas agents or Hamas personnel with guns, where does

the Israeli drone from targeting them? Right. Right. We have 40,000 Palestinians who have been slaughtered by Israeli military and every time we talk about this slaughter, for example Hent, who was six years old.

potential Hamas, right? So if you're for a fact, know that these people, grown men on top of the bus with a gun are Hamas, Shirov eliminated them according to your own policy. So why didn't you do that? Besides the Titanic soundtrack that was put, I just want to make it clear to people. If we have any event in Palestine, basically we have, like we used to do open days at schools, where you come together, you do a big sale, you do programs, of basically jumping in bags,

holding an egg in a spoon, right? They do these in Gaza, and you will have organizers in these events, right? Because we're human. You always need organizers. These organizers to Israel are Hamas. Right? So in a situation like this,

famine, seven months of brutal genotype that has been taking place, and mind you, let's leave the 15 years upon the siege on Ghazda and the blockage of humanitarian aid, whether it was the, COVID vaccines that were basically blocked by the Israeli government and Israeli people themselves. They sent us in the West Bank.

The COVID vaccines that they sent us were expired, and they didn't send anything to Gaza. The calorie count in Gaza is monitored by Israel. Any medication for cancer, for what you call it, blood pressure, or what's the... Diabetes? Yeah, diabetes. It's blocked by Israel, right? So now you're talking about a chaos. situation and for lack of

there are terms I'm using chaotic people are literally dying to get this bag of flour that an Israeli settler in the West Bank is basically throwing outside of the bus and you're talking about people organizing people will literally as a human, you in America

we have an event and some chaos happens everybody will start running and I want to talk about the UCLA encampment in a little bit to tell you like in times of crisis how do humans react, right? We had food at the encampments. When we had the police firing rubber, bullets and everything, do you know how people jumped into the medic tent and how people were jumping

to get basically form chargers, masks to cover their face from the gases? It was very chaotic, and this is normally will happen in Husser, so you will need people to organize it, not to block it. And again, like, if you're really bothered about Hamas blocking aid, why do we need aid from the beginning. Or if you're bothered about Israeli settlers blocking the aid that is going, when as a matter of fact, everybody nowadays is blaming Bebe Netanyahu for what's happening. And honestly, to be honest with you, it's not only Netanyahu. Netanyahu is the picture of what's happening. Netanyahu is the person who's basically telling you, um, reflection of what the Israeli society is doing. Whether you're blocking

aid, whether you're brutally killing Palestinian civilians in Jinnin where Hamas does not exist. Yes. A school teacher that was killed yesterday. Yesterday, yes. A student who was killed yesterday. 12 years old, right? My cousin who was shot in the head when I was in middle school, they're not Hamas. We're not even, we don't even know.

We never knew what Hamas stood for until Zionists started talking about it. I'm genuinely telling you, I was very curious. I was like, let me see what Hamas is. I read their charter before they fixed it and after they fixed it. Why did Hamas exist from the beginning? if there is no problem in Palestine, a reactionary movement to colonialism or occupation would have never emerged. Yeah.

So the problem is... And if Israel hadn't preferred a more hardline religious opposition? Reactionary opposition to the Palestinian peace offensive. The secular movements who were actually willing to negotiate and were serious about trying to. you know resolve the conflict along internationally recognized lines and this is it was funded by sorry it was funded by golden iran i want to say an unpopular opinion and i hope aran it doesn't go out of context but i'm going to say it we always tend whether we're like

palestinians or pro-palestinians we almost tend to basically talk about hamas as their like they deserve what's happening to them like we always if we want to justify what's happening we'll say well hamas right humas is wrong politically i don't agree with hamas at all. I will never elect if I have the power to like elections. I will never elect Hamas into power just because I have political differences from them. But this is an ideology. And ideologies are open to everybody. So any normal Palestinian that basically is keen towards Islam and Islamic teachings might identify with Hamas as a political movement. You can't go kill that person just for doing that. Right. Right. Can you kill a Likud member just because they are

Likud members with all the fuckery that Likud stands for. Right. At the end of the day we're like, you get to choose whatever political party you want to be part of and that does not justify your killing. You can't kill right-wing Americans or left-wing Americans or

Republicans or conservatives or Likud Party or left party in Israel. Hamas, Fethach, or PLO. You can't kill us just because you identify politically. 100%. I mean, that's not a particular I don't think that's a particularly unpopular opinion. I mean, I guess in terms of within a system of Western imperialism, it is,

within a system in which literally when Hamas was elected, it was decided that couldn't happen. And there was an attempted coup and that coup failed. And now the narrative is that Hamas took over when they were actually elected. but yeah, no, that shouldn't be an unpopular opinion just because someone believes in something, even if someone believes in something that I think is atrocious, like Lekud members, I don't believe that gives anyone

the right to carpet bomb their neighborhoods and their children and kill their families and do all of these, you know, atrocious things. It is, you know, that's ridiculous. It's a, it's, I think the height of kind of the American liberal, you know, what I would call like blue MAGA or blue anon thing is, is a level of fascism that does include like, wouldn't it be better if we put all of these MAGA people in camps? And I'm like, well, that makes you a fucking fascist. And it makes you fucking worse than them. And it also, and also just as in the case of the Hamas ideology, misses a brilliant opportunity to understand why people gravitate to that ideology in the first place.

In the case of MAGA, sure, there's some racism, sure, there's some bigotry of all kinds, but there's also resentment of coastal elite classist dismissal of liberal smuggery. liberal smuggery and you know technocratic technocracy and elite class domination all that when it comes to the Palestinians you mentioned Oslo Mohammed well I think even someone without a strong bent towards you know Islamicism could be forgiven for taking a look at any Palestinian leadership that says let's accommodate let's negotiate let's negotiate right let's let you know final stage you know we'll deal with the settlements later maybe Jerusalem maybe there's any accommodationist incrementalist thing and say fuck you we tried that look where it got us 100% it's it's hard to blame anyone for looking at the more militant you know opposition and going like it seems like they were right I mean you can't I can't blame anyone for um you know to give them a better alternative right exactly but israel doesn't want

to give them a better alternative just like the democrats don't want to give people a better alternative yeah not exactly a very good analogy but you know but hey you know this is listen it's better than somalia in jerusalem way better than that um but just like continuing you know this level of hesbarra with regard to the um aid trucks and this claim of Hamas stealing aid, you know, I'm not here to dispute whether or not people are doing war profiteering in the Gaza Strip. I'm certain someone is. Of course, that is the nature of war. It is a sad fact of war and a sad fact of ethnic cleansing, a sad fact of a freaking concentration camp.

Has anyone ever read the history of the Warsaw Ghetto? Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Like, this is not something. that would surprise me in the least bit of anyone doing, you know, hijacking a truck and, you know, selling off the aid. The problem is, is that their entire Hasbara, which is believed full-throatedly by Western media, is the videos do not show that. You don't see a video of the hijacking.

You don't see a video of people who say, I am Hamas, I am hijacking this to sell it. what you see is guys with guns riding on trucks. That is all. And when people, at least, you know, on Twitter started arguing, like, oh, you're being very selective with your videos. And then they would show me videos of, you know, like people not on trucks, no aid trucks nearby, but like Hamas purportedly, you know, shooting live rounds and, you know, shooting Palestinian civilians.

And I, you know, I'm like, this is not. now you're just being like see they are animals see they are violent see this is you are you are not you are not saying here's a video of them doing a crime and i'm not saying that uh videos are are you know tell an entire tale i in fact i think for the most part it is absolutely correct to say that videos uh you know only show you part of a story and context is important that is of course true. But what's shocking is how much of a story these videos, these snippets of Israelis blocking aid tell. They tell a whole story. No caption needed. The people, the people narrate it themselves. Yes. Whereas with the videos of, you know, three seconds of, you know, mass gunmen

on top of truck. It's basically the Zionist version of the, you know, and we have to, since it's our podcast, we have to mention the wire at least once per episode. Yes, please. It's basically B-A-B-G. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Big era, big gun. That's right. To adapt a line from the wire, yes. From the wire, yes.

But yeah, no, completely. And I think that what's crazy about it is that, like, we are made to put these on the same level in terms of, like, video evidence. Like, you can't, yeah, you can't show, you know, these videos of, you know, some Israelis doing some bad, bad. stuff without showing videos of Arabs on trucks and I'm like that is a completely

ridiculous thing to compare that to completely especially I mean just like here is this is from the account Mossad commentary which is you know they bought a blue check

mark early on I mean they've been the you know really riding hard since the seventh and the caption that they wrote is thank you to all that came out yesterday and prevented the aid to reach Hamas.

They literally are saying that and the video is here, it is a bunch of Israelis waving Israeli flags doing a roadblock. So, you know, I don't Was I hearing the Hebrew right? Someone yelled yalla le mitzheim. Are they saying go on, go back

to Egypt or something, go to Egypt? I mean, I don't know. I couldn't hear it. I didn't understand it. All I did was see it. And without speaking Arabic, without speaking Hebrew, I know exactly what I'm seeing. And I think that is the insanity around all of this, is that Israelis get a voice in our political system, they get to control a narrative, or they attempt to at least, and their voices, their narrative is propped up by our media. And yet the videos that we see coming out of this, you know, the last few months are just 4K videos from Israel of them saying, I love when gauze and starve, I love crime. You know, like they're out loud admitting what they're doing.

And they're not giving an explanation. They're not saying why, you know, here's why it's okay to do this. They're just saying, we're doing this and we're proud of it. Muhammad, at what point do you, does a person or, I mean, I'll just put it on the personal level because I can't ask about an entire people. But how do you not explode from the double-stander? of all this shit. I mean, you used the word fuckery, and there is no greater cluster fuckery in the world that I can think of than this. And it's been 75, 80, 150 years of

this. How you doing? And how do you make it through this? I mean, what a ridiculous question, but I wanted to let you speak on it. No, thanks for that question. Hopefully, I don't get emotional. Hopefully you do, but hopefully, but hopefully we hold the space so that it's, yes. You know. Thank you. Well, it's been ups and downs. Like, I think, I feel like every Palestinian, we've been driving a wave of not only emotions, but mental statuses that we're going through, where like one day you're, and this is like something they took in college, crisis communication, where basically when you're in a crisis, you start by avoiding the crisis and talking about it and basically ignoring it in order to go on with your day. but then everything reminds you of it, right? Everything that is surrounding you is reminding you of it. And like most of the time, I always tell my colleagues, I left Palestine, but Palestine never left me.

And that might sound cheesy, but let me tell you what I mean by it, is any time I'm outside of Palestine and basically the conversation of Palestine comes up or a person like me with an accent is asked about the accent, it will bring up Palestine and it will bring up this reaction of either, oh, I'm so sorry if it's happening, or, oh, do you hate Jews? Oh, what are your thoughts of the Jewish community? You know, like, they always force you into talking about it and living in it, but to answer the question directly, I am angry, very, very angry.

I've been angry way before October 7th. I have a lot of trauma, and I never looked at it until I moved outside of Palestine. I avoided that or maybe it wasn't post-trauma. I don't even think we can go for PTSD. We don't have that privilege of p-teeing. Of the P-E part, yeah. It's never post. Yeah.

Yeah, so like me looking at all these hypocrisies and propaganda, atrocities, and everything that is happening, majority of us lost faith in humanity, but then speaking to people like you and we go back to the allies' role, it's important because you guys remind us of we're not alone, right? When basically Shirena Ba'u Kla was killed in 2021, if I'm not mistaken, Shirena Bokle is a person who I looked at as a role model to me. I always wanted to be in journalism.

I finished my college and basically media studies and filmmaking, I did a master's in communication at the University of San Francisco. And the reason why I went there is because of Shereena Ba'uatla. I grew up listening to her voice. Literally every Palestinian in the West Bank, if you see a kid holding a microphone or pretending to be holding a microphone, they will be like, I hope you didn't lose me. No, yeah, we can still hear you.

Yeah, it's frozen for me. They will hold the mic and be like, this is Shirena Baatla and Jazeera Ramallah, right? Like, this is a voice that we grew up listening to during the Intifadas. pretty strange for a society that purports that that is that is alleged not to let women speak to have such a female hero of journalism and you can go across the board in every sector of society it's such a fucking vicious lie

definitely yeah and the reason why I brought up Shirina Baakler or any other Palestinian figure who've been killed or anything that Israel has done in the past or in our current times it's always the same response to basically what they committed. So when Shirena Ba'arqa was killed,

they blamed the fighters in Janine, right? And that blame took five to seven months to basically be debunked by international investigation entities. And what kills me the most is the country I live in now, and I am supposed to be part of, carries on that narrative and rhetoric,

and it keeps on pumping it until the whole rage dies down. Right. Yeah. So Shepa Hospital, for example, when they wanted to attack it. Yes. People were like, no way Israel would attack hospitals. It's impossible. Israel is the only democracy. Israel is war, like they have war tactics and everything. So that started being the talking point of the administration in the U.S. Whether you're talking to Republicans or Democrats. And then they shifted into, well, there is a tunnel under El Shifa Hospital that was built by Hamas. Therefore, we justify the attack of El Shifa Hospital. Or we justify the killing of Shafah Hospital. Or we justify the killing of Shepa Hospital. And then they shifted into, because she was in the midst of flashes, flashes between Palestinians and Israelis, right? So they give you all these propaganda talking points and rhetoric that is baseless. It's basically completely flawed to any normal human being who's educated. Yes. And then the rage dies down. And then people who basically were angry about the death of Shirina Abauchla or the murder of Shirena Abaqla.

But by the time America admits to, you know what, actually, we feel. found out that Israel is guilty of killing Shirin Aba Aitla. Mohamed Abkhazir was kidnapped and burned alive. That's right. During that time, so we forgot, right? And it's not like willingly forgot. And then from a Shifa hospital to the Baptist hospital that was massacred, 500 people were killed.

You have all these basically scenarios that are taking place. Being gaslit is the most disgusting experience any human can honestly go through. And to answer the question directly, how do I feel? I feel not only disappointed, disgusted, and I feel like I don't want to belong to this basically circle of creatures that we're living amongst, and by creatures I'm referring to everybody, including all of us as humans, right? It's just like really, really fucked up. Like, I don't have any other words.

It's fucked up. It's just like you, like what, like, when I, before I came to America, you know what I had a goal in my head and it's in my personal statement to the University of San Francisco and I hope they hear this. I'm not proud of graduating from there because of their sentiment and what they're doing right now and the silence of their reaction to the genocide. But I always wanted to come to America to prove to the world that we're not violent, we're not barbaric and we're not terrorists. And that's because I had in my mind this thinking or way of thought that if I go, maybe I'll be able to convince them

because I was raised and like my mom taught me to love everybody to be open to all opinions political backgrounds and everything and then I came here and I tried to appeal to a community or a society

that is embodied into systemic racism and white supremacy whether they like to acknowledge it or not. We are all complicit in this country of this system right?

So I tried to appeal to them and I realize that I'm not being accepted no matter what I do even if I'm not mimic your language, you will never accept me within your circles. If I mimic the way you pray, you will never accept me within your

circles. If I mimic your lifestyle from A to Z, you will never accept me. And that's because not only post-9-11, way prior to that, since the settler colony was built in Pennsylvania and the founding, founding fathers now it created it. It created it to leave people

like me outside of the image. To leave the black Americans in this country outside of the image and to leave back in the days the basically Jewish people, outside of this image, right? So they will never accept us, and I'm done catering to them. And by them, again, I want to be more precise. I'm talking about the media, and I'm talking about government officials.

I am done appealing to them. If you want to consider me, and I was called a soft-spoken terrorist before by Zionists, if you want to consider me a soft-spoken. If you want to consider me a soft-spoken terrorist, go ahead. Because if I condemn Hamas today, and if I condemn all the things, Palestinians today. And if I tell to you that, you know what, I will work towards peace and

talk the cause and this and that and that at the end of the day. We have this clown who's called Yusuf Haddad, right? I'm sure you heard of him. Oh, yes. That is an Arab-Israeli and honestly, thank God he doesn't. I depraified as Palestinian. Thank God. I would never

be honored to be part of the same child of that creature. But what if you called him? What if he called you his brother? Oh, hell no. I'd rather be brothers with, what's that guy's name? Rudy Rahman than Yusuf Haddad. Let's be clear. Now, there is a sitcom.

Yusuf Haddad in specific. This guy is basically an Israeli propaganda agent who is paid to Emily Schneider. He got all the golden tickets to basically prove to the Israeli community and the Israeli government that I am on your side. You should accept me. How do they treat Yusuf Haddad? Yusuf Haddad is not allowed to get married to Emily Schneider in Israel because he's not Jewish. Yusuf Haddad was called on national television channel 12.

He was called a traitor to his own people. He was called a sub-haten Palestinian by Israelis, right? So no matter what Yusb Haddad or Musaub, that guy or any Palestinian who basically are not Palestinian, these Arabs who want to cater to Israel, you will never be accepted part of that. community. Because to your point before, this is Jewish supremacy, whether we like it or not. Israel is a Jewish supremacist. A hundred percent.

Anything that is not Jewish in that community is disregarded. And then you go deeper into the image of a brown Jew, a black Jew, a white Jew, a Jew, you would go and it's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, don't fuck up.

Yeah. Well, I rented a lot, but I hope it was great. That was the, that was exactly the moment to do it. We need to hear that untrammeled. Because that's what's going on underneath the surface of all of this stuff, right? Yeah. And it's like, I'm generally not a fan of the idea that words are violence in general, because I think it can lead us into realms where free speech gets curtailed on that. But when it comes to emotional manipulation, gaslighting. Well, I'm talking about the words used by systems of power to, because we

you said, you know, in the meantime that the lies about Sherea and Abraa Ackle were spoken, yes, that gave cover and ran interference for more violence to be done. Same thing about El Shifa. Same thing about the screams without evidence, you know, the mass rape allegations on October 7th. In these cases, the, and this is why I can't imagine what it's like to be you, because you can have the most peaceful tone coming at you. And the words sound nice. But you know that the function of those words is to buy more time and more weapons for the very forces that have always wanted to wipe you and your people out. And I just commend you for keeping your humanity in the midst of all this. And by your humanity, I don't mean your nice guy in this.

I don't mean your love of people. I'm talking about your anger. That's an aspect of your humanity. And that's medicine against, you know, completely shutting down and checking out. You know, so I don't know what that takes, but it's beyond anything I'll ever have to deal with in my own life. I just wanted to salute you and acknowledge you for that. No, thank you for that. And I just want to add, I think this should be a normal reaction to any human being.

Of course. This is the morals and the ethics that basically comes by nature to you as a human without being indoctrinated or taught in schools. Yeah, so quickly, Daniel, I want to say something. If an American is interested in experiencing what the Palestinians are experiencing, I encourage this American person of joining the encampments that are happening in solidarity with Guzde on college campuses because as a person who attended the encampment at UCLA and all the violence, we start coming from Los Angeles Police Department

that were in full riot gear. I never believed in time travel until I was at that moment in UCLA. I traveled in time to a reality that I almost forgot about it, were basically the first sound of one explosive bomb that was thrown by the police department immediately took me back to the West Bank and I was filled with emotions and with all the rubber bullets and everything,

my first instant of safety was the medic tent in the encampment area. And I ran to it, and while I was running there, I couldn't just help it back to imagine all the children and women and men in Gaza are running to Al-Shippa hospital to seek refuge. Yeah. And despite that, Al-Shipa hospital is destroyed,

and all the hospitals in Gaza has been destroyed. So if you just want to see how it feels like to be a target, go to these encampments and see it with your own eyes. And you'll get brutalized by police forces that the Israelis have trained. That's right. Over to you, Matt. Well, Muhammad, thank you so much for coming on. Unfortunately, we have to end there because I share my home studio with my wife.

Sorry, I have to do a Borat voice. Can't help it, even though I know, even though I know. But, Muhammad, please, we'd love to have you back whenever. I love hearing what you have to say. And I love, you know, talking to you and just, I think you bring not only some very valuable like insight, but you're also just chill as fuck. and this is a podcast for for chill people

who want to talk about how fucked up everything is and chill and chill and furious at the same time yeah yeah yeah yeah well listen being furious and being chill two sides of the same coin let's be real exactly but thank you for coming on and of course thanks for having me it was a pleasure talking to you

and Daniel and I want to shout out to the producer Adam as well who's been in the chat spot on especially the last message from their to the sea the idea of trains the LAPD and it rhymes I love it oh hey and there's our sign-off there's our sign-off thanks everyone for watching and until next time from the river to the sea the IDF trains the LAPD jumping jacks was us push-ups was us godmaga us all karate us taking Molly us Michael Jackson us Yamaha keyboards us charge our minks on us and or was us. Keith led your Joker us. Endless bread success. Happy meals was us. McDonald's was us.

Being happy us. Bequam yoga us. Eating food, us. Breathing air, us. Drinking water us. We invented all that shit. Thank you.