Bad Hasbara - The World's Most Moral Podcast - Bad Hasbara 38: Zio-huasca, with David Sheen

Episode Date: July 4, 2024

Matt and Daniel talk with journalist David Sheen – author of Kahanism and American Politics – about Kahanism, where those tzedakah box coins go, and the elegant good looks of Israeli National Security Minister Itamar Ben-GvirRead David's piece for Electronic Intifada "How an Israeli colonel invented the burned babies lie to justify genocide"Find out more about our guest at davidsheen.comTickets for The Bituation Room X Bad Hasbara 8/19/24, Chicago ILSubscribe to the patreon Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/bad-hasbara/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hello, hot bitch, We invented the terrier tomato And weighs USB drives and the ironed Israeli salad, oozy, stents, and jopas orange rose Micro chips is us iPhone cameras us Taco salads us Bothana abamos us

Olive garden us White foster us Zabrahamas As far as us Hello and welcome to Bad Hasbara, the world's most moral podcast. It's the most moral in the world, bitch. I'm sorry. Oh, that's right.

Ladies and gentlemen, I have a new thing that I'm playing with. I've used it before on other podcasts, and I was like, you know what? I need to have some auto tune on. this because this uh this podcast it needs a little levity sometimes all right um yeah so that'll be happening occasionally throughout the podcast uh quick shout out to producer adam levin shout out to the subreddit r slash bad has barra still going strong jp ben all the mods out there just crushing it um and a reminder to uh go to chicago during the democratic national convention because on Monday and Tuesday, August 19th and 20th, my wife, Francesca, and I are going to be at Lincoln Lodge in Chicago.

We're going to be doing a live podcast together, and then we're also going to do some live stand-up. Sorry about my throat. I don't know why. So buy tickets. Ticket link is going to be down there. All right. I've done that. And now it's time to introduce the world's most moral host.

Daniel Matae is here. wow not even not even co-host anymore no dude you're official now you've you've you have fronted an episode that means you're official it's like what am i going to say we're both co-hosts that just sounds weird it's like we both sound like we're not like no one's hosting you know what i mean i feel like egon spengler when peter vankman handed him that chocolate bar and be like you've earned it you this is maybe the third podcast in a row you've done where you've done a very specific Ghostbusters reference. Oh yeah. Did you just watch it? No, no, no, no. No, no. My mind is constructed as if I've

always just watched Ghostbusters. Okay. It's just, but to me, it's like, it's scripture. I got to say, didn't we hear that auto tune when you did the suck my fucking dick, uh, um, oh yeah, tribute to Elon Levy? That's true. That's true. Uh, well, I mean, to be fair, actually, that was, uh, using a separate piece of software that had a vocoder on it. That one was much more specific. This one is just kind of like you set it to a key. And I always forget what key it is. So I have to kind of find it.

So it's like, hey, Daniel, I had to remember what the key is. Where are you going? I'm going to the piano to a step. and do the piano to figure out the key. And I think that it's G major and E minor. It could be G major or the relative minor, E minor. All right. Possibly some mode.

It might be mixed. Lidion. It could be. It could be G. Lidion. It does. You know, it might also not even be a key. And it just, you know, it's just like.

I'm like, oh, we'll just go to the nearest note. Who knows? But the point is, is we're having a lot of fun on this podcast. It's going to be a great time. We've got a great guest. Our guest is a freelance investigative. I'm sorry to interrupt the intro.

Fucking producer Adam, just killing it in the chat. G. Gordon Lidion. He also called me Ju-Pain. Yeah, Jew. Oh, my God. Our guest is a freelance investigative journalist reporting on the ground from Israel Palestine, has been recording on the ground, reporting on the ground from Israel Palestine.

Did you just call him a has-been? No, God damn it. I'm doing great. Bad husband, Barra. Bad husband, Barra, has been reporting on the ground in Israel-Palisand. And for 15 years, currently writing a book about the Kahanis movement, most recently wrote this insane article for the electronic intifada regarding the burned babies' blood libel, essentially, that helped fuel this current genocide in Gaza. Ladies and gentlemen and everyone else, our guest today is David Sheen. Hey, guys.

Hi, David. Hey. So glad to have you. So sorry that this is the podcast. there's going to be auto tune um i'm you know there's going to be weird videos and then there's also going to be some serious talk about investigative journalism no no no i'm i'm thankful for the opportunity to mix it up a chill yeah yeah i mean you know listen everyone else has got uh the market cornered on being serious about the current atrocities not us we you have to laugh a little

or else yeah that's what i say right yeah you got to laugh not to cry that's how it goes sometimes you do um so david i just want to i want to get some background on you um uh you have been uh writing uh and reporting about israel palestine for 15 years and on the ground that's is that right yeah yeah i've lived in throughout the country yeah and israeli controlled territory center of the country, south of the country, north of the country. And in that time, I've been writing for local outlets in English, rather. And outside the country, I've been writing. A lot of my writing in recent years is for Palestinian outlets. And I've been really focusing, I guess, you could say, on different issues related to race. A decade ago, that looked a lot like the different

African communities in the country, of which there are multiple. And in recent years, it's been a lot about the far right and their assent to power. Right. So from what I understand, Israel throughout the years has gotten like more chill. Famously, like everyone there has been, there's a lot of disco dancing, a lot of parties in Tel Aviv, Capri Pants, designer drugs. But yet... Ayahuasca. Ayahuasca, which of course was invented by Israel. That's ayahuasca.

Yeah, Zayahuas. You just automatically like got a buy through all the rounds. And you are now in the, you're in the inner circle of... That has a rot. One of us, um, gobble. Um, yeah,

just Zayahuasca is great. You're just going on a vision quest, but your visions are just a blood. Oh, no, but that's actually so, that's so pointed because, you know,

it just, like I've been in the ayahuasca world. I was for you. I was, I sort of married into it for a while and that didn't last. Um, and, you know,

my dad used to lead retreats doing therapy with it. And I've seen the, the power of those medicines. But I've also seen that people tend to idealize them as if only we could get Benjamin Danjahu and Sinwar to drink ayahuasca or Hillary or whatever. And the fact is that in and of themselves, they don't change minds necessarily for the better

or the more sane, certainly not politically. Like they don't address questions. They don't enlighten. They don't make people more. like what we wish they were. So when you hear about a country like Israel getting on the psychedelics of ayahuasca, it sounds all promising. But I've heard stories of people who have tried to do Israeli-Palestinian healing with psychedelics, but that does not necessarily or even usually pierce the fucking structural thing of

you got to face certain things about power dynamics and differentials and like, anyway, that's why that's especially why I love your joke. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but very interesting. thing. It would be sick if it was a cure-all. That would be, that would be so dope. Just drop some LSD in the water supply. Yeah, all of a sudden, Benjamin, and Yahoo's just like, you can have the land. We'll do democracy. We'll do a real democracy. I'm so toasted right now. All right. I'm sorry, guys. There's just, I have the effects. I'm going to use. No, no. Benjamin, you're puking in the middle of his press conference. Just purging.

I love my Eric brothers and sisters. All right, I'm fine. I'm Israel so sorry. I'm Israel so high right now. I'm Israel high. Yeah. Oh, boy. Oh, we're having fun.

But yeah, so what's interesting, I think, regarding kind of the right word shift in, like, Israeli society is it's also coincided with, like, a pretty, like robust israeli PR campaign that has bar a campaign that is made to make israel look like you know this bastion of the the left and progressivism within the middle east and this is their main line uh whenever they're you know trying to tell you why you should be okay with killing arabs is because well because arabs are um actually reactionary and backwards and they don't like gay people and all that so um i want to ask you about that in your own personal experience, you know, like what have you seen on the ground? What is what of your eyes told you is actually happening in Israel? What of your lying eyes? What if your lying eyes told

you is happening? Yeah. Well, of course, it is scary because every year it seems to get a little worse. I mean, both anecdotally and also numerically, we can chart it because Israeli Democracy Institute does surveys, and they find that every few years, Israeli youth are less and less likely to be willing to study in a classroom with a non-Jewish person or live in the same apartment building as a non-Jewish person. So we see it in the numbers. But you also feel it on the streets. Yeah. Of course, it's hard to measure over time, but there has been certainly significant.

And more to the point, it increases even within the year from season to season when there's a group of Jewish holidays, one after the other. All of a sudden, you feel like there's more incidences of racism. I've definitely experienced. Especially that quintessential sequence of holidays, right? from, is it, Yom Hazikaron, Yom Ha Shoa, or in the other way around, right? Yom Ha Shoa, Holocaust, Rembrandt's Day. Right, right.

Yom Ha Zikaron, you know, pour out a little liquor for all the brave boys and girls got killed in the effort to occupy Palestine, Memorial Day. Right, right, right. And then Yom Ha'Hatsmaud in Independence Day. Right. And that all comes just on the heel of Passover, which is also a nationalist holiday. Yeah. So that's really a time when you'll, I mean, and even just after Pyrn,

Porum traditionally is also when there'll be like more grave vandalism or more lynching attacks in public places. Wow. And more Palestinian face, right? More like pageantry of people dressing this year, dressing up, dressing up, dressing up like starving, bombed Palestinians in the street and doing like Esther Mordecai kind of pageants as as Hamas as as as dead Palestine or or as lynch mobs as as 1930s uh United States KKK hood white hood lynch moms we've seen that at Jerusalem schools as well wow it's funny

it's a mask off moment but they're putting a mask on you never really you never really see that shocking the the Zionist version of the karate kid mr. Viaghi is saying to daniel son mask on Mask off. Masked off. Masked off. It's just, I mean, you know, we've seen most recently, or at least I think, you know, the world has seen more and more of these young Israeli lynch mobs essentially, you know, acting out in ways that I think most of the Western world at least did not associate with, you know, the Jews. or Israeli people in general, you know, and, you know, I think was it the Israeli Independence Day celebration recently in which there's video footage and photographs of a Palestinian journalist who is being surrounded and kicked and punched. Is this something that you would have seen 15 years ago or was this more

of a, or even like 20 even before you were there, you know, 20, 30 years ago or is this just more of a recent thing where the youth itself seems to have been radicalized towards fascism and ethno-nationalism?

Well, I don't want to minimize the amount of racism that existed in previous years because when I go through the archives through older newspapers, I find lots of incidences that weren't necessarily reported in English language media, but in the Hebrew media, they're preserved in time. But certainly over the course of the last 15 years that I've been here, and I've attended and reported from numerous Jerusalem Day marches, that's what we're referring to those matches in June through

the old city. Definitely, there's always been. throngs of people chanting racist songs and as they storm through the Muslim corridor banging on shops and bullying people the few Palestinian people that are left that haven't left

the Muslim court. But what we see and there's always been wearing regalia that explicitly says what their objective is you know let's say a bulldozer demolishing Al Aksa

and you know construction of a temple slash abattoir on its ruins So Yeah Futurist Futurist fan fiction

Aspirational fan fiction Yes Yeah It's kind of like a vision board For Jewish fascists Intention setting Yeah exactly You got to set your intentions

And let it you know Let the world know that, like, yes, you know, you want a picture of a million dollars and you want to destroy the Alexa. Well, I mean, that's, that's, you know, 15 years ago, this would have been considered a hallucination, you know, would have been like, oh, that's, there's no way that that's achievable, you know, this is not realistic, but. Something you see in a ayahuasca ceremony. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. But now we see that that view has been mainstream, the view that the mosques, you know, including the oldest still existing Muslim shrine in the world, actually, the Dome of the Rock.

Right. And so, and probably the most beautiful building in the country. And so, yeah, there's many people who have support from within the government now. They're not considered fringe. They have a solid base of support, mostly. religious but some secular too those secular who kind of want to stick their finger in the eyes of the Palestinians who are like yes let's build this abattoir ASAP right and so you know earlier you talked about you know they looked at these kind of right wing nationalists you know as fantasizing about something that would never be as opposed to say fantasy fantasizing about something

that is like awful and bad do you do you think that also the views have changed about whether or not it is you know this kind of right-wing fantasy of a Arab free nation of Israel is something that was looked upon as like well no it's bad we shouldn't we shouldn't want that or was it no it's bad because it's not practical like how has the israeli sentiment like changed in in that sense have people become more fascist uh that's yeah that's the question i think yeah good question i think it's a combination uh i think the stream was always there and we can look at let's say the numbers of votes so it's really in late 2018 when netanyahu kind of kosher's the Kahana movement and declares them legitimate political players and that they're kind of resuscitated,

takes them a couple more years to get elected into the Knesset and then in the most recent government voted in the end of 2022. That's when they firmly have their hands on the steering wheel. That's when they're made ministers in the cabinet. So that and now it looks like they know they have a serious chunk of the vote. Now were those people not the voted for them that gave them, enough power to be the kingmakers of the Knesset? Were they not as racist a few years ago? Or is it just that all of a sudden people believed, yes, it's worth casting our vote for this party because all these years, they've always been running, but they never really managed on their own to get into the Knesset because not enough people would rally around that fascist flag.

Right. But there was, you know, the mainstream media in Israel gave Itamar Benkvier, the head of the Jewish power party, the Kahana's party, more airtime than any other politician. Okay? This is when he was just a regular old member of the Knesset, not a minister, more than any other, except for the prime minister, with exception of the prime minister? But isn't that just the, isn't that just the, what can I say, the bias for good-looking people? Like, isn't that just, that's just sort of a tilt towards the sexiest, most photogenic, right?

Slim and trim. yeah i mean let's not you know let's be real this is one of the most beautiful men in israel i mean oh yeah i mean it's basically one of the chefs from uh or one of the bakers from morris sendax max in the night kitchen you know or you know like one of these plumped sort of guys with a wooden spoon and i mean just let's just let's just look at this man real quick look at that beautiful beautiful guy just that that that that that sort of beautiful amphibian. Yeah, you know, just like a, just a tan turtle who's out here.

He's just, he's just trying to make Israel a better place, man. You just, what a gorgeous Rocco's modern life looking ass turtle. Did he be losing? That's okay. Do you have to puke? Did you have to? Hey, I had to puke. All right.

Yeah. No, look, the guy's garbage, but the Israeli media gave him a platform. form that is completely disproportionate. And so they normalized his perspective, his critique. And so the whole body politic was moved. If I moved to the right, is my camera going on? Oh, look at that. Oh, wow.

There it goes. There's new techniques. But that's what happened to Israeli society, that all of Israeli society shifted to the right as Benfrews normalized. And more people realized also that they can come out of the closet. Not they were ever in the closet, but that they could cast. their votes for this small party that didn't make it past the minimum for many years. And this was the Jewish Power Party or you talk Jewish Home?

No, I'm talking about Jewish power. Now, the truth is that even the religious Zionist party is like they're pastel Kahanists in the sense that they have the same ideology and they have some of the same roots and some of the same members that go back and forth between the parties. They just don't have an official allegiance to Kahana. But for example, Smotrich, the head of the party, his father is the secretary of Rabbi Dovlyor, which is like the top kahanist rabbi for the last 50 years. So they're drawing from the same well of, you know, of Jewish supremacy,

the same, you know, of the most racist figures in the country that have incited for ethnic cleansing for decades. And so really that whole messianic movement that's now this big block. has taken over some of the most important ministries in the government, including, you know, part of the defense ministry, the police ministry, that's basically giving you a monopoly on physical force. Right. These are dangerous characters. And just to drill down on what they believe in, they, it's not only that they want to

ethnically cleanse, but they don't, it's not just that they're sufficiently, you know, that they're satisfied with apartheid. That is not enough for them. It's not enough. They need the country to be ethnically cleansed. And furthermore, they want Israel's borders to be expanded. They want it to become an empire. They want Israel to have borders?

Well, ultimately. That's a step forward. I mean, Israel doesn't have any. But I mean, at least they want to define it for fuck's sake. No, no. Well, it's funny. So we know where to, you know. In the first phase, there is, you know, there are promised borders, you know, from this

or that. alleged, you know, prophecy, but, which is also this wishful thinking stuff, you know, that someone wished thousands of years ago or whatnot. But more to the point. From the Mississippi to the Ganges. Right. Well, look, one of the biggest ideologues of the movement, you could say, Rabbi Kana's right-hand man in the 1980s, Andrew Green, who later took on the name Baruch

Ben Yosef, one of the assassins of Alex Hode. It's the L.A. Reference. So, Bapa Anasad, he's still a major figure in the movement. He is a lawyer who has argued in the Israel Supreme Court dozens of times. He does a podcast every week from Al-Axa.

He has a podcast? Yeah. Live streams from, yeah. He's always talking about this kind of ideology, you know, promoting it. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Al-Toxa in the morning. Yeah, exactly. With Moisha and the Big Kahuna. Yeah.

So in one of these lectures anyways that he's given in recent years, someone from the crowd asked him, well, what about South America? You know, because he was talking about expansion of the country. And someone said, you know, there's tribes in South America now that are claiming Judaism. So maybe we need to expand into South America. And according to Barahubanii, 7, it's like, well, theoretically, there's no limit. I mean, God's, you know, must reign over the entire world. He's the master P of Zionism, no limit.

That's right. Very good. No, it's most definitely, people, I need to understand this because it's often not understood. We give them too much credit, and we assume that they're, that they have a human core or a humane core. But they actually aspire to. to, in every country that they go to, whether it's Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, you know, Egypt, et cetera, where every territory they conquer and beyond, they intend to offer the residents of that region, the opportunity to, you know, say, I will no longer be Muslim or

Christian, I will knock down this mosque, I will destroy this church, and there will no longer be any other religions and we will agree to be your part of your vassal religion the noahs so and if you don't do that you kill all the men and of course take the women to do with us as well i imagine i imagine egypt is part of the plan to of course it gives a whole new meaning to pyramid scheme david i have a question for you i have a question for you uh and that's that's how i cut been to ask a question by making an absolutely just clunky fun. It was great. It's a

conversation stuff. First of all, as a fellow Canadian, happy Canada Day yesterday, by the way. And I can't believe that you diss the Mercas Canada by saying that the Alaksa Mosque is the most beautiful building in Israel, the Canada center in the north, that sports complex.

Come on, man. Represent for our country. Amari Stadamire played there. Come on, dude. Did he? I don't know. I assume so. If it's a basketball, if it's got a court, you know, I know that Amari moved there.

I'm putting pieces together. I'm making shit up. We're having fun. What was that Vancouver Grizzlies player? Big country, that big southern guy. Anyway. Yeah. So I was at a screening last night of this new film produced were released by Ziteo,

which is Medi Hassan's new venture. Right. And it's called Israel's Real Extremism, R-E-E-L. And while I'm a big fan of puns on podcasts, I'm not such a big fan of puns in movie titles, but that's another question. It's a 40-minute film about the shift that we're talking about in this conversation.

And part of me was a little kind of nonplussed by it. I think it's like Israelism, it's a good 101 for a lot of people who need to see this stuff. On the other hand, I mean, more than 10 years ago, we had, you know, reporter on the street videos being made by Abby Martin and Max Blumenthal talking to ordinary

so-called liberal Israelis and you really heard the genocidalism but what was interesting was there was a panel discussion afterwards with my friend Najla Saeed Edward's daughter

Simone Zimmerman from Israelism and Amira Haas the Harad's journalist and Amira was asked about this question of has it always been this way or is it new and she said it's kind of both and her what she pointed to

what's shocking to her is the way all of the guardrails have been taken off. That, number one, there is no memory of a time when there were any limitations on what people could say, any prescriptions, any, hey, don't say that out loud, you know. And similarly, like the media is now, like you just said, amplifying these voices. They are the most telegenic, ideologically telegenic, which, which includes encouraging the TikTok videos from Gaza that Israeli soldiers are putting out. That's what I have noticed is the most shocking thing, is that the gatekeepers of Israeli media and mainstream culture are saying this is our function to amplify this for morale,

for the country's morale, which is a level of cynicism and nihilism that I think is unprecedented. Do you think that's accurate? Does that resonate for you? that there's been a shift in terms of not even trying to pretend to hide it anymore? Like a mask off moment? But deliberate mask off. Like we're tired of this mask, it's stuffy.

Like, what are we doing, guys? You know, it's like The Wolf in, you know, Little Red Riding Hood, who's like, I've given you like eight hints that I'm the wolf, you know? Like, at some point, he just takes off, and he's like, I'm not grandma. I'm a fucking wolf. Like, like, the better to ethnically cleanse you with. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like,

are, are people in general just like, tired of, um, uh, pretending and like, or, you know, are they, are they just at this point? Being on the defensive. Right. Being on the defensive. There's also this, this total contempt for the rest of the world. It's like, okay, call me a war criminal. You have no idea what you're talking about. Call me genocidal. Maybe I, maybe I, I am, but in my moral frame of reference, what's the problem with that? So a kind of psychotic shift where the, like, the contradictions are just no longer, the circle is no longer trying to be squared, if that makes any sense. Yeah, I hear what you're saying. I think, keep in mind that there's this movement to unseat Netanyahu, and it has been going on for some years now. So

So when we're talking about, in general terms, about Israeli society, let's at the very least, break it down into the two camps that are battling for control over the country right now. Sure. Yeah. So, you know, there's people who, let's say a majority of the voters in Israel want Netanyahu to step down. But a super majority hates Palestinians more than they hate. Netanyahu. And so as a result, you know, Netanyahu can manage this. Now, as long as he's managing this operation and the people who are in power are ultra-racists, so over time, think about it, they are the people who run the education ministry. That means that they

dictate what will be the curriculum in Israeli schools. That's causing right-word shifts. Think also that as time goes on, there's less and less people that even have a memory of what it was like before the separation barrier that was built in the mid-2000s. But if you were, you know, an adult before the Second Intifada, then you have memories of going, maybe not to Gaza, but at least parts of the West Bank.

I mean, Palestinian parts of the West Bank. Maybe it was to do some shopping. Maybe it was to get your teeth cleaned. Maybe it was to go to a restaurant or whatnot. So most Israelis could at least point to someone that they had even a passing relationship with who was Palestinian. So you couldn't. Of course, there were always racist, but you at least had some kind of experience to point to. Now, you have a whole generation of Israelis who have no way of knowing any Palestinian.

So they're just more open to the far right messages of these are subhuman. They're incorrigibly evil. They can never be peace with them, et cetera, et cetera. So I think that's part of the reason. It's the culmination of Hafrada. It's like the full, which is the what they call separational, which is hilarious because they think apartheid is a slur. But separation, apartheid literally means apartness.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, so I want to get into Cahanism and Meyer Cahana himself because I think a lot people don't actually know either of those things. You know, this is a little bit of 101 for people who are still learning. And I think it would be important to do, but I also think it's very important for people to buy products, which is why we need to take a quick commercial break, and then we will be right back to talk about Kahana. who is a lot of fun.

So stick around and we'll be right back. These chicken wings brought to you by Kahana. That's right. Kahana wings. Num, num, num, num, num, separate the wings. All right, we'll be back.

And we're back. All right, we're here with David Sheen, and we're talking. About all sorts of things. Before we get into Kahanaism, just a quick question for you, David. Yes, please show. If someone like you moves to Israel-Palestine and does what you're doing with it, which is to investigate and expose,

do they call it Alia? Or do they have a special term for it? Is it Paliah? Are you considered an Olai? Have you really gone up? Yeah. Are you getting up to get down like James Brown? All the above.

No, actually, my specific case is different because I was Israeli from birth because my father was born in Israel and his parents. So, yes, my family immigrated to Palestine in the 1920s. So I was born and raised in Toronto, but I already had two citizenships said birth. So it wouldn't have been considered Alia when I moved there at age 25. But, uh, and it's also, go ahead. Well, I mean, it's the reason that, um, you know, you cover Palestinian rights so much because, um, you wanted to avoid the dual loyalty trope. You wanted to show that you were just loyal to Israel so that the anti-Semites wouldn't accuse you of dual loyalty.

Is this is the question I have for you, serious journalist. machine feel free never to answer anything i ask nor daniel especially daniel especially daniel well you know i didn't even come with the intention of doing that you know i was we're documenting you know ecological architecture when i at that time you know 15 years ago i did a tedx talk on that topic and i made a film about that topic and i made a film about that topic and I was writing about that topic. And I wasn't, but then I was, you know, living in Tel Aviv. And at that very moment, I was, you know, editing and writing for her arts newspaper.

But at that time, there was a new race war that emerged in the late 2000s, early 2010. You have the beginning of a new front. If there was up until then decades of race war against Arabs, now you had a new race war against Africa. or intensification of it because you had the immigration of a new African community. Was it the Betta Israel? No, it wasn't from Ethiopia. These were Christians and Muslims and animists from Eritrea and Sudan. Okay.

And tens of thousands of people who were fleeing. I would love to see an animist Israel. My God. What? An animismism is seeing the divine in all objects and all things and having multiple. like seeing the aliveness and okay that would be cool a heathen pagan israel yeah that would be dope yeah well that's what the founders wanted pagan reggae you know as a soundtrack peggy that would be interesting yeah there is no jaw i'm sorry there is no

anyway go on unja so in any case um these east africans who were fleeing genocide and ethnic cleansing totalitarian governments and forced army conscription and torture, et cetera, et cetera. So they're fleeing all over the world. And then they flee to Israel because it's the next country over after Egypt. And they are treated to hell from the entering Netanyahu government, citing racism, pogroms against them, rounding them into camps and, you know, forcing them to repatriate back to Africa, back into the same cycle of refuge. Anyways, so all this new race war that barely got any reporting in the mainstream media for obvious reasons, that was, you know, I kind of filled into that niche. And since that was another race war in which the kahanists were at the vanguard, as they are at the vanguard of all the race wars. And, you know, so that's how I first started, you know, interviewing the Kahanis member of Knesset at that time and their leadership and their rank and file in the streets at their demonstrations when they would rally and demand the expulsion of the African refugees or when they would rally outside wedding, you know, when there was few rare examples where Jew and Palestinian Mary.

So they would come there and there are hundreds, you know, bust in from all. over the place, screaming, yelling, you know, death to the Arabs, you know, literally picketing weddings. A wedding hall, yeah, a wedding. Yeah. Spitting as car get cars of guests are coming into the wedding halls, which is a level of like anti-mesegenation, like rhetoric and action that, I mean, you know, I assume we did that here in the United States in some capacity in our horrible history of racism, anti-black racism and, you know, being anti-misogynist and all that. But like just the visual image of picketing a wedding to me is so potent because you just can't

imagine, I mean, you know, if anyone's ever had a wedding, the idea of like someone fucking up the amount of work it takes to put on a goddamn wedding. wedding to me. That would drive me insane. I would, I would go full ballistic. Really, it's Brownstein versus Board of Education. Very good. But, you know, we're talking about Kahanists, and it's important to talk about the main man himself, Meyer, Meyer Kahanah, who is Meir, Meir. Meir, Kahana, who is a American Jewish fascist, who moved to Israel from Brooklyn. He grew up in Brooklyn, and he served a term in the Knesset before he was convicted of

being a literal terrorist, I believe, convicted of acts of terrorism. He founded the Jewish Defense League, and also the Israeli political party, it's spelled K-A-C-H, so I'm going to assume it's pronounced Kock. He founded Kock, and he was later... assassinated. So tell me about this man, his impact at the time that he was not just in the Knesset, but as a politician in Israel. So Kahana begins his career in the United States. And at that time, he's essentially an arm of American intelligence. His role is to try to convince young American Jews to stop protesting the war in Vietnam and to get behind

the American adventure in Vietnam. Interesting. I didn't know that. That's crazy. So he starts off as being like an op for the American military industrial complex. Correct. Wow. Yeah.

I mean, to be fair, he graduated, you know, Yeshiva. He graduates law school. practice. He doesn't take his bar or he doesn't become a licensed lawyer, but then he actually does start being a rabbi at a local synagogue, eventually cross paths. But in any case, then that's his political career. It's initiated with becoming an American agent trying to convince young Jews. And then the next campaign is the foundation of this Jewish Defense League that you describe. Yeah. And there in 1968, remember, the context is, you know, Israel's 1967 war in which triples its territory.

And now for messianists like Kahana, they imagine that this is the beginning of the messianic era. Up until then, Jews were not powerful enough to enact this end-time's vision that they want to see of Israel ruling over all territories and all the holy sites. And so now it's made a reality. Israel captured East Jerusalem and Hebron and Ablis. And so now it inspires, you know, this Jewish power movement.

Can you explain messianism with regards to, you know, Jews and Jews of Israel, which is different? As far as I know, is this different from the messianic Jews of America who are just Christian? That's a separate thing, right? No way, I'm glad you mentioned that just so we can clarify our terms. Yeah, so that term is used for a number of things. On one hand, there are people who are Jews, you know, people who are ethnically Jewish, who believe that Jesus is the Messiah. So they call themselves Messianic Jews for Jesus or Messianic Jews.

But that's not who I'm not speaking about Jews who think that Jesus is the Messiah. I'm talking about Jews who think that. we are in the messianic age and believe that we should actively bring it into being with our actions. I'll explain what I mean by that. Just rollback tape. So basically, you know, the traditional position of Orthodox Jews is that, yes, the eventual goal, we can talk later about how Orthodox Jewry came to be this because it wasn't like this eternally. It came this way over time, over hundreds and thousands of years. But the point is that in the modern era,

what we call Orthodox Judaism came to believe it. Yes, the ideal state is for Israel to reign supreme, for Israel to be a theocracy, for it to be depleted of non-Jews by force, and for there to be a king. There rules over it. However, since what we understand as modern, Orthodox Judaism is, let's say, 1,500 years old since we have the Talmud, okay,

which is like the Jewish New Testament, which is like the Bible of Orthodox Jews. So for the last 1,500 years, there has never been Jewish power on the level of statecraft, right? Jews have lived in countries that were Christian or Muslim and such. And so they've always been minorities that did not have enough might to assert by force and take control over land. by virtue of their powers. So if a Jew tried to do such a thing, they would be wiped out, and the whole Jewish community would be wiped out. So the Orthodox Jews created, said, yes, yes, yes, that is our objective to create a theocratic Jewish state that is ethnically cleansed of non-Jews, but that is only for the messianic era. That's for God to come down and create

into being. It's not for us. That became the traditional ultra-Orthodox position. Yeah, we want that, But we're going to be pacifists, not activists. Which, in a sense, informs Natura Karta's objection to Zionism, right? Now, I don't hear them saying, now, someday we will take over that land and oppress everyone. But until then, Palestinians are equal human beings and the Zionists are infidels. I hear them saying, you know, and I heard a really good interview Glenn Greenwald did with two of them recently. It was excellent. And we don't need to, I don't need to cross-examine what they,

really believe, but, but they are keeping that, at least the tradition of let's wait for the days of Jewish supremacy. Mosheyeh, until, which is, yeah, is that right? No, no, it's very much so. And, you know, so that's, we can say that they, the Natura Carta, and other groups like them are the few that remained of that traditional ultra-Orthodox position that we came into modernity with. But obviously, since the modern Zionist movement, it managed at first to make inroads

with just a small minority of the Orthodox community. And then over time, they have come to, you know, inform the politics of almost all of the Orthodox and ultra-Orthodox communities. And now Natura Khartar are just a small minority that still cling to that original. And yes, you're right. They aren't, we don't test them on their end times vision. But to be fair, we don't test, we're trying, we're living in a society of plural. Yeah, pluralistic society where we're trying to live with people of various religious ideas or political ideas that we don't necessarily agree with.

So if they're benign enough to, if you're cool enough to come to a protest, you know what I mean? Right. If I'm going to give Candace Owens credit for having Norman Bacleston on, I'm going to take the Notary Carta's support in good faith and be like, yeah, that's a boon to the cause. Right, yeah. It is one of those things where, you know, at least within the Jewish community, community in the United States, people, including non-Zionist Jews and anti-Zionist Jews, are like, well, don't look too closely at what other things they believe. You know what I mean? Because they certainly had their issues as well. Or how they treat their wives.

Yes. But you, you know, you take what you can get. And if you can get, you know, Hasidic-looking Jews, you know, saying free. Palestine, you're like, cool, put it in, put it in social media. And their spiritual view on it, I find very, very compelling and actually very inspiring. It reminds me of the best of Judaism, like the value of exile, the divine gift of exile in a sense, or at least the task, the obligation of exile. And it also helps when you see the anti-Semitic Vermacht, not Vermacht, SS, which stop a way that Zionists treat them, the shit that they get, that gets screamed at them.

should have died in the gas chambers. You're going to do all this shit. I'm like, man, these are my boys. Yeah. And they're the most visible of the Jews, so they get that the worst even more than we would necessarily. Yeah. So, but, you know, I'll let them speak for themselves, but basically just to understand

the context in which we're coming in. So that, again, just to reiterate, that idea of a messianic age where Jews reigns supreme and ethnically cleansed the non-Jews was traditionally, left for the Messianic age. But in 1967, once Israel expands its territory thricefold, then all of a sudden people start thinking, well, maybe now we're in the Messianic era. And that's when Kahana steps on the scene. And he found the Jewish Defense League.

And there's lots to say about their activities in the United States. But just briefly, their main efforts originally were to fight back against. African communities, neighborhoods in which all of a sudden there was white flight and many Jews move out to the suburbs. And so they became less Jewish and more black and Puerto Rican over time. And so he exploits this, you know, to create animosity between the two communities. At the same time, laces up alliances with the local right voting, right-wing voting communities, the Italian Americans of New York.

and works in conjunction with the local mob boss to do so. And then they actually, after those episodes of being an arm of American intelligence, then Kahana becomes an arm of Israeli intelligence. And so you have the leaders of Israel's underground militias of the 1940s, the Jewish terrorist groups who, you know, committed atrocities against Arab-Palestinian civilians and who ousted the British from Palestine with their bombing campaign. So those same bomb makers then transmitted the knowledge of how to make bombs, the bomb craft,

to the JDL, the people who were fundamental, were those people who went on to serve in the Israeli government, including Israeli Prime Ministry, Ishak Shamir. You know, he starts out working in the Lehi, right? one of the Israeli Jewish terrorist groups. And then he ends up introducing Kahana to the bomb makers of the Irgun. And so then that's the, and then with that skill set, the JDL then goes on a bombing campaign around the United States and shooting campaigns, mainly against Soviet officials. Because the issue that they took on at that time, this is, again, the height of the Cold War.

and there was also a detente between the U.S. and U.S.S.S.R. But from Kahama's perspective, they now demanded that Jewish people in Russia, in the former Soviet Union at that time, be allowed to immigrate to Israel. And preventing them from doing so is a grievous human rights violation that justified terrorism. Well, and we have to say that the mainstream Jewish community in North America, at least, took that cause on. I didn't know that it was a kahanist cause, but when I was a kid going to Temple Shalom in, and I'll name names, in Vancouver, you know, we would come home with Sadaka boxes, you know, charity boxes, and asking our parents to donate to what cause, both planting trees in Israel, you know, to replace the Palestinian olive trees that got uprooted, I guess.

the indigenous ones planting like I don't know Douglas furs in Israel or some stupid shit but also the cause of the Russian so-called refugees the ones who wanted to leave and I remember this is the first time I ever realized that A anti-Zionism was a thing and B I was the son of an anti-Zionist my dad said I'm not giving a fucking penny to that

you know they want to donate to the Palestinians I will and I said who are the Palestinians I was 11 but that cause I remember in the mid 80s was like really championed and not just by extreme right winger. I went to a reform synagogue. Yeah. Yeah, no, that's just it. This is one of the ways in which the Kahana movement ingratiated itself into the Jewish mainstream.

Now, that issue had been an issue, you know, of some elements of the Jewish community, but the kahanists put it on the front, made it front page news by using, you know, tactics that, you know, some of the tactics were legitimate, nonviolent tactics. Some of them were explicitly violent tactics and, you know, shooting at the home of, you know, Russian or rather Soviet ambassador to the UN or ambassador of the U.S. and such. And in fact, they ended up taking the life of, you know, they firebombed the offices of Saul Uruk, which was a Jewish-American impresario who organized many, many concerts, including these concerts of Bolshoi ballet and such.

And the conists demanded that everyone BDS, the Soviets. And so because this Jewish impresario hosted or organized concerts of Soviet cultural troops, so they firebond their offices. And I mean, people were injured and one woman was killed. She also happened to be Jewish, one of the Sahirak secretaries. So, and these guys got away with these murders. Yeah. They got away.

Well, that wasn't a murder. They were McCarthyists. They were McCarthyites who were willing to do. do more than hold you know house on american activities commissions they were willing to just murder just go just go murder motherfuckers yeah straight terrorists straight terrorists yeah McCarthyite terrorist look i mean just a word about the soviet union at that time to put it in perspective uh although i'm not like an expert on soviet history but my understanding is that nobody it wasn't that only jews were not allowed to emigrate or only jews didn't have full cultural religious

rights because this is a country that was, you know, a state atheism was a prescribed religion, right? And there were efforts to de-religionize the entire population and say, you know, we need to modernize and leave synagogue and church and mosque behind. And also, it needs to be said that at the same time, the Jews were being culturally genocided in the parlance of Kahana and his ilk. Right. There were Jews around the world who were literally being kidnapped, tortured, and murdered in Argentina by the thousands. Yes. And there were no efforts to raise awareness of the plight of the Argentinian Jews because they were left wing.

Exactly, because they were socialists. They were left wing. They the victims of what was actually the biggest massacre of Jews since the Holocaust? I keep in Argentina, that's right. Yes. That's absolutely correct. The official Jewish community, and certainly the right-wing vanguard of the Kahanists, they were utterly silent on the issue of these actual,

the actual people being murdered, not just, you know, the, you know, the threat to cultural, the assimilationism, the forced assimilationism of Jews, which is a literal genocide as opposed to the murder of thousands. So this is emerging as a kind of theme of, of modern Hasbara, which I'm starting to notice, because they do it with the Arab world, too, in terms of the life of Jews in the Arab world. They take cases where Jews are among the marginalized. They're among the oppressed.

They're among people who didn't, because they were literal minorities. Right. Or taking cases where Jews were part of other oppressed communities, like ideological communities, like communists, and they want to sell it. as this is a case of rank anti-Semitism with Jews being targeted quad Jews. Right.

And it's a very slick thing because Jews in Arab countries did face some limited rights, some discrimination. And relatively speaking, they were much more secure than they were in Europe. And they were not the only ones who were insecure. So it's like, it's a very,

it's a very nifty little sleight of hand, I think. No, certainly. Look, that's certainly the Kahana playbook has always been to increase the fear of anti-Semitism. They realize it from the start because from the start, they are, their main goal is, as I said, for Israel to, you know, become an empire, for that to happen. They want to extinguish the diaspora. They want all Jews to move to Israel. They're explicitly saying so. And they admit that America, you know, Kahana admits that Jews have.

have not had it as good in any part of the world in any part of history than they did then in the United States of America and do today. And so how are you going to convince Jews who have it good compared to other periods of history to abandon the American dream to move and become, you know, an Israeli. How are you going to do that? Well, the way you do it is by putting the fear of anti-Semitism in them. So sometimes that meant things you describe, like,

taking a story that exists and then, you know, anti-Semitismify it by 25% or whatever. You know, in the telling, it becomes scarier. But then there's events where they explicitly invent anti-Semitism in order to, you know, for example, Irv Rubin, who is national chairman of the Jewish Defense League for many years in Los Angeles area, he and his crew, they would go to a Jewish cemetery and they would topple over headstones. Right. Because then the next day they could say,

well, look at these Nazis toppling over headstones. We need a Jewish defense force to come and patrol the area. Jews aren't safe here. Have you heard about this happening in Toronto these days? You know, Toronto's there's been, I'm not saying there haven't been genuine incidents of anti-Semitism, vandalism on synagogues, but at least one or two of the stone, the window breaking or graffiti or arson incidents in Canada,

it turns out that the person who did it was a member of the synagogue or was... Oh, my God. That's also true. And as you say, there's incidences where, like, let's take in 1994, okay, or 1993, 19994, the beginning of the Clinton era. At that time, you know, can we assume that there was at least as much racist,

is there is, like, there's always racism in America, didn't end and it didn't begin, you know, just, but in any case. Trump invented it. Trump invented it. Right. Right. Yeah. So in, in 1993 or whatnot, there is, uh, it's like the Rodney King riots. It's just after the Rodney King riots and like everyone's on the edge of their seats and there's just the talk of racism. And all of a sudden, the swastika is found on a synagogue in New York City. Oh my God. This is horrible. What happens? Clinton, the president Clinton, comes down to this synagogue to make a visit and say, you know, reassure the rabbi there that, oh, don't worry, you Jewish people are not alone. We are here by your side. It's good. I think that one incidence of isolated anti-Semitism, alleged anti-Semitism isn't enough to bring a president or a presidential candidate down to this one location. But it turns out that this synagogue was the Kahanist synagogue. It turns out that they were the very synagogue that every year hosted the memorial service for Kahanah after he died, where he was celebrated, where the rabbi from the pulpit preached Kahanism said he was right. We should have listened to him. We should have followed him.

We should have done what he said. He's been proven correct. This is the vision that he's in every year. And he would grant awards to the Kahanas, you know, followers. So this is literally what they do. They take any possible instance and manufacture it into the worst possible case of anti-Semitism when they are the biggest racists. Right.

And trying to manufacture it is crazy to me because it's like it is playing into the Nazi, like, Nazi like neo-Nazi playbook of just like you know every time there's an instance of racism of any kind in public you get neo-Nazis going this is fake you know and especially if it's a case of anti-Semitism and it's like it's insane that the conists were like no this is this is a good thing let's keep doing this because the more we can make Jews unsafe in their you you know, respective countries in the diaspora, the more we can convince them to come to Israel to, you know, fulfill this messianic prophecy. So, right.

And we will circle back to that issue. Again, at the end, when we mentioned the Israeli colonel, because that's a classic example of taking a horrific incident and then manipulating it in order to incite racism towards non-Jewish people. But just to continue the thread of Kahana wreaking havoc on the Jewish body politic and pulling that to the right, then you have him on the Israeli stage because after his terrorist career in the U.S., eventually with all of these convictions, he realizes his only hope of avoiding the long jail sentences to move to Israel, which is his goal in any case. and there he begins I love this idea they're like you know Israel is a safe haven

you know for Jews you know that's why it's there and it's just like it seems to be used mostly for the criminals to avoid conviction it's like it is it's just nice it's nice to know

we have a special country we can move to it's you know as I delved into the issue over the years it became really nauseating for me because you find that some of the worst actors possible, not only evaded, you know, having to serve

jail time, for Avram Mandrawitz, something like this. He's this dude who was a teacher at a Jewish school in New York City. And he is alleged to have raped like hundreds of young men and boys. Wow. And he, you know, escaping, once a police finally caught up to him, he fled to Israel. And for years and years, he got away with it, you know, and part of the reason that he got away with it is because American body politic had become so in bed with the Kahana's leadership of New York City that the attorney general is responsible for demanding justice for these aggrieved New York City boys who had been raped, they, these attorney general, they were in the pockets of their Kahanas vote getters. You had the heads of Yeshiva University who were the rabbis who were

most aligned with Kahanah. They, you know, they hosted him for speeches when he died. They held his funeral service there and praised him and, you know, decried his detractors. And so anyways, these rabbis were the top rabbis of the Orthodox mainstream in the United States. who were themselves top kahanists. They had, by virtue of their being popular rabbis, they could promise votes. And since the Jewish vote in New York and America in general had generally gone to the Democratic Party,

that's who they sold their votes to. That's who they organized their votes to. People in their communities listened to them, voted to the candidate of their choice. And in this way, some of the top rabbis of the Khana movement manipulated New York policy, including to the point of allowing this, you know, insane child rapist to get away with no punishment.

Herbert Bomzer was the Rush Yeshiva of Yeshiva University who allowed this child rapist to get away by, you know, controlling, you know, manipulating U.S. politics. So in any case, there's a lot of... What I like about his name is it rhymes with Momser, which is Yiddish for bastard. So, I mean, it's really sick. So because we've created a situation where, you know, originally, you know, Israeli laws around sending folks back to the countries where they committed crimes, that law was changed because of Kahanis.

Part of the reason was because the murderer of that secretary, the Jewish secretary, who was bombed at the office of Saul Herok, one of his murderers, one of her murders fled to Israel. And they changed the law. They realized, oh, no, as it is, the law could create a situation where we may have to send one of these, you know, Jewish murderers back to the United States. And we don't want that to happen. So let's change the law. When was that law changed? Is that, was this? It was soon after.

It was, no, it was actually back in the 1970s, if memory serves. It was the head of the committee was then David Glass of the National Religious Party. So this is going back decades already. As soon as Kahana gets there in the 1970s, he's already finding allies in the Israeli body politic. Now, he's so obnoxious and over the top and so, you know, sure of himself and his unwavering belief, you know, that he crosses paths of people. He doesn't end up being in anyone else's party. He has to start his own party. And because of that, he has to start out as a one-person party.

So it takes him a while for people to get enough votes to get in. But once he's there, he really, you know, like, just as an example, one of the things he does in the Knesset. Of course, he proposes all these really racist laws. Once he gets there, he has a platform to promote his racism. And he, you know, proposes laws to forbid sexual contact between Jews and non-Jews. Right. This seems to be a theme with Marikana. It totally is. It totally is. Like, you know, there's, at least within the Israeli right wing, of course, you know, intermarriage.

I mean, intermarriage is an issue just within regular Jewish society where people are like a little like, oh, you got to marry Jewish. But it seems like this was almost a mainstay of his. Most definitely. He just, this hatred for race mixing, which to me, like, if you have any questions about whether or not a Jew can be a Nazi, look no further than anything Meyer Kahana has said about the idea of race mixing or the idea of intermarriage, you know? All your vaginas belong to us. Yeah, exactly. And actually, your vagina, us. I have a video of Myer Kahana during, I believe it was an election promotion film, and I want to play a little bit of this just because, you know, just so you can see what he's about.

Any given nights in Israel, in any of the major cities, in every coffee house, you will find thousands of Arabs throughout the country sitting with Jewish girls. In many cases, the Jewish girl doesn't even know that this is an Arab. The Arab, Ibrahim, will say to her that his name is Avi, Avraham. The Arab Musa will say that he is Moshe. And that's how it begins, and we don't even know about it, we who sit in the exile. The tragedy of Jewish girls, 4,000 Jewish women today married to Muslims. And bear in mind that in order to marry a Muslim, it means that she had to convert to Islam. 4,000 Jewish women today who converted to Islam and who are living today in our villages with their Arab husbands

and their Jewish children who are Arabs. The prostitutes of Israel are overwhelmingly Jewish and the pimps are overwhelmingly Arabs. And this is the Jewish state. for this we dream for 2,000 years? I mean, just like the amount of the way that this mirrors sort of the, I don't know, the anti-Semitic canards regarding Jews, you know, in Nazi Germany, the way that, you know, Germans and German Nazis were talking about how like, you don't even know this person is Jewish.

They changed their name. they blend into society you know then they marry and then they make you convert and then all of the pimps are Jewish and all of the prostitutes are good German girls like it is the same rhetoric the exact

same and we're just you know just sitting here going like well don't call him a Nazi I mean that is that's a little far I mean that's disrespectful you know hard out here for a tennis I guess no look this guy

is the, you know, this is the whole thing about Mayor Kahana, that it was a mask-off moment, because what his innovation was that, sure, there are Israelis who think like this before his appearance on the political stage, but none had spoken like this, or who had tried to garner votes using these mantras. So at first, actually, you know, he becomes so offended. to genteel Israeli society. It isn't so genteel. But even that's how racist it was,

that even at that time in the 1980s, there were enough to vote him into power. But at the same time, the mainstream, even the mainstream right-wing Zionists, the secular Zionist, the ruling the Qud party, some of them found him too far gone. And so, in fact, the comparison to Nazis is made not only by

the Humantators, not only by the Supreme Court of Israel, but also by the Israeli right wing, the Likud Party, they say in the Knesset, where a member of the Likud Party makes a list of Hitler's Nuremberg laws and Kahana's proposed bills to the Israeli Knesset.

And he just is like, one to one. Look at this. It's the same stuff. So. I do have to say, though, you know, his content is obnoxious. And his, clear, the evil exudes from him.

But one of the things that makes him, I think, very effective. There is a charisma, a quiet, disappointed, just concerned father or concerned grandfather vibe. There's a soft-spokenness, at least, maybe not at his rallies, but just kind of, let me sit down and tell you about the problem we're facing, you know. That worked in English. and if you see videos of Kahana in the 1970s and before he has a beard here he's already got a beard and he's still speaking for the most part you know pleasantly placidate

but when you hear him speak in Hebrew especially after he'd already learned the language better then it's just you know he's just seething rage and that's partly because he is now in a new society in which the debate takes you know is a different debate he's no longer trying to appeal to a certain class of individual in the United States and he's trying to appeal to the average Israeli or what he sees as his one of the communities that were more likely to adopt his values right towards Jews

from Arab countries and so whom by the way along the way he's telling them you are not Arabs you spoke Arabic and that was a mistake You know, he's, he, because what he just said is predicated on the notion that a Jew can't be an Arab. Right. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, at that point, he is, looks like, despite efforts by the mainstream Israeli right wing to exclude him, they try to pass a law ruling out the ability of anyone to run for the parliament. if their platform,

if their electoral platform includes racism. So in this way, they hope to exclude Kahana. And in fact, he isn't allowed to run for re-election. Well, it also benefited them, those right-wing parties, because they would have been the parties to lose votes to Kahana, to believe votes to him. So they had their own interest. And in fact, it will take, you know, decades before Kahana

and his acolytes, not Kahana himself, but his acolytes get back into the Knesset. It'll take a while. But in Ninth, just a couple of quick things about him just to kind of close off that and explain how we got to where we are. Kahana himself, after he is ousted from the Knesset, a couple of years later, you know, he writes his magnum opus, which is basically an instruction manual for committing genocide, the Jewish idea, as he calls it. And, of course, he found his Jewish idea, yeshiva in Jerusalem, to carry on.

Now, at this point, his first generation of acolytes that came with him from New York, they went on to terrorist careers of their own, committing murders. Some of them in the U.S., some of them in Israel. And then, you know, he starts eventually raising a new crop of Israeli-born Qahans. And at that point, we are already. in a new era because through happenstance, we came to a situation where Israel entered into peace negotiations. Remember, in 1993, we all of a sudden have a shift away from the continuous right-wing turn of politics. And we have this, you know, for all the criticisms we can have of the

Oslo peace process, there was at least the introduction of this idea that the Israeli government was open to a two-state solution. Right. So immediately, of course, the Kahana movement is at the vanguard. It's always been at any time there's like a turn to the left, like in the late 70s when there was a possibility of peace with Egypt and withdrawal from the Sinai, boom, the Kahanis threat the vanguard of opposing it. Again, in the Oslo peace process in the 1990s, they do their best, their level best to try to blow it up. And they succeed for all intents and purposes. We have them to thank for quashing it because several months after the beginning of the also peace process, we have top kahanist, another one of the murders that move to Kyriad Arba

with Mayor Kahana, a man by the name of Baruch Goldstein. So he went into the main mosque, the Ibrahimi mosque in Hebron, and he murders. He becomes the biggest, you know, lone gun murderer in Israeli history. He murders 29 Palestinians praying on Ramadan in this mosque, this beautiful mosque. I was living on a kibbutz in the Negev that year. Oh, wow. So that's, that's, and, and exactly 40 days later, 40 days after that massacre is the first ever Hamas bombing inside Israel. Wow. Okay, 40 days is the traditional Muslim mourning period.

That's amazing to know. So exactly 40 days later begins the first Tamas terror campaign at that scale of Israeli citizens, civilians, and then that's it. because that psychologically pushes Israelis into another place where they, okay, now we can no longer abide any possible peace plan. So really, the Kahane is spent. And then, of course, a year later, someone who attended the funeral of that Baruch Goldstein mass murder is inspired to go on and assassinate Rabin. What was his name again? Igal Amir. Amir, yeah.

And all the people that he studied with at university become his. lawyers, and they become Kahanist lawyers, amongst them people who were themselves Kahanist terrorists from New York City, like Craig Leitner, Kahanist terrorists shot up a bus full of Palestinians in the West Bank. Andrew Green, Baruch, Ben Yosef, who assassinated Alex O'Day, among others. Ladies a gentleman of the jury. Hands up, motherfucker. See you out. No joke. No joke. This is how sick it gets. So these, in any case, but, you know, most the Israeli media generally glosses over all these.

And, of course, the international media doesn't notice these connections. So they are allowed to operate. Again, for some years, they're actually declared a terrorist organization. Okay. So they are beyond the pale from the 1980s into the early 2000s. Okay. But in the early 2000s, we, again, it's the beginning of the second Intifada. okay and up until that point the kahanis their thinking was we're going to import weapons we're going

to actually bring in arms and start our own settler army so that if the israeli state withdraws from the west bank we'll still be able to hold it down and go toe to toe and you know maintain this territory and of course Israeli officials realized this as soon as they came back tried to enter the country they're like we're watching you 24-7 there's no way you're going to achieve any of this. So what they do instead is they bring in dogs and they start raising attack dogs. And then they begin, you know, breeding these dogs so that they can become the forward forces of the settlement militias who patrol the areas outside the settlements and expand their land grab, you know, and intimidate Palestinian shepherds and such.

And, you know, they're operating solo, but then, again, post-second Intifada, they're all already embraced by the, it only took a decade, really. And then they're all of a sudden, they're no longer persona non grata. They're essentially working with the Israeli security services, if it's the police, if it's the army. And they, you know, they are now basically in the same way that organizations like Zaka, which is a group founded by an ultra-Orthodox, by Orthodox Jewish terrorist, which then becomes a first responder arm of the state.

in the same way. This isn't the same guy. I'm sorry, he also found it. It was also accused of... Yeah, child rape. Yeah. Rape, accused of raping men, women, boys, girls over the cases of decades, you know, and also was a terrorist.

And so this, again, so Zaka, one of these organizations that has become basically a quasi-arm of the Israeli state. It's, you know, first, go-to first responder. In the same way, the Israel dog unit has become the go-to... canine arm of the Israeli security services and in fact of the current police minister, who is Khanas himself. So that's fucking crazy that there's such a thing is. It is. Khanist canine.

There's Khanis triage. Yeah. You know, Kahanist paramedics and Kahanus forensics. Because now we're fucking relying on Zaka's like very careful, meticulous, you know, manipulation of the crime scene. Yeah. For evidence. And that's all Israel will give the UN is whatever the fuck Zaka said.

Producer Adam says a Kahanis dog, also known as a Kahay-9. Exactly. No, but you're really getting at something good here. That's what, at that point. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, that needs a Steely Dan pun. Oh, okay. I don't know, I don't know Steely Dan enough to understand it.

Okay, for those fans. If you know, you know, the child will be. popping up about that one. I'm sorry, I couldn't not. But go on. So all I meant to say was that, you know, at that time, really after the Rabin assassination and after the withdrawal from Gaza, the kahanists realized really that, and all the messianists in Israeli body politic realize that it's not enough for them to do, you know, their old plan was to keep campaigning on the far right, hoping that it would be the vanguard and draw all

of Israeli society. Well, the problem was that most Israelis didn't really care about the withdrawal from Gaza, you know, for their own reasons, for demographic reasons. They thought, okay, lose some territory, but lose a million and a half or two million non-Jews. So we don't mind that force correction or that correction. And so they realized that if they wanted to manifest their messianic plans of expansion empire, but they would need to take over positions of power in politics and in culture. And so they did so. One of the ways they did this is by taking over the arms of the state. One of the way to do is taking over political bodies. One of the ways they do it is by, you know, infiltrating the military upper echelons and the same thing

with academia and the media. In terms of politics, they started their own wing of the Likud party called Jewish leadership. They became such an important part of that party that eventually, many rank and file members started coutowing to them and seeking their praise and therefore espousing far right opinions in order to appeal to them for votes in the central committee

of the Likud. Moshe Faglin is the most famous of these and you know there's no shortage of you know genocidal stuff he said. Well actually have I have some some Faglund for us because listen you know this guy has said there's always

something he said but the most recent thing he's did, kind of went viral. And I have a clip of that. As it is clear to us that we can't live. So this is him doing an interview with an Israeli news program. And this is me in the background doing the English subtitles for those of you listening. How did Hitler, may his name be a race, once say, I can't live in this world if there is one Jew left in it. We will not be able to live in this land if there is one such Islamo Nazi left in Gaza and not before we return to Gaza and turn it into Hebrew Gaza you want to turn Gaza in the Hebrew Gaza unequivocally yes because if not if Gaza won't turn into Jaffa Jaffa will turn into Gaza so the crazy

he's like the meanest fifth-grade math teacher ever he died no that's the other thing is just like this is the look is not Nazi enough you know it's not there's not the designer leather it's just like a guy who you know he looks like yeah like a fifth grade

math teacher we are neither physiognomically nor sartorially made for this Nazi shit I gotta see it just looks ridiculous on us also I love you know I love you know what did Hitler say may his name be erased yeah yeah it's like

It's very much just like, well, you know, I try not to confuse the artist for his art, you know? Like his, Hitler's art was great. Yes, Hitler had some problematic things he did, but the art, mm, beautiful. It's like quoting Michael Jackson or Arkelly at this point. Yes, yeah, exactly. But go on, I'm sorry. So it's okay. No, classic.

So that's an encapsulation of how, you know, the Kahanis infiltrated the, the, the largest right-wing party in the Kness, in fact, the largest party currently in the Knesset. So, but again, it happened in other facets of society, and it also happened among other facets in the army. It's a widespread phenomenon. And now we are coming. I don't know if we want to dive into this yet, but maybe it's a segue. We are ready. We are ready. That was a perfect segue. Thank you, David. That was beautiful. The other segue was going to be just me doing. more you know like fucking auto tune just like time to talk about burn babies the babies are on fire or are they i'm sorry i wish i knew a key um so we're talking about your most recent article

for electronic intufada um how an israeli colonel invented burned babies uh the burned babies lie to justify genocide. Some background on this. So during the October 7th attacks, at the home of a resident of Kibbutzbury, whose name is Pessie Cohen. Hamas was holding captives and demanding safe passage back to Gaza. Daniel, did you go away? Okay. I'm going to He doesn't want his name to be associated with these things. All right, I'm gone. I heard burn babies, not me. So there were a total of 15 captives and 40 Hamas captors.

And according to a couple of witnesses, the only two surviving witnesses, the Israelis fired on the home with guns and tanks and killed everyone. the 13 Israeli captives who were left. Is that basically, well, tell me about your article. I mean, like, you talk about the Hannibal directive in this, and you talk about this, you know, what essentially I consider blood liable of the burned babies, kind of Hasbara that kind of permeated the news media

for the first few months. continues to this day, like, tell me about this colonel. Tell me what actually happened here. Sure, sure, sure. So just to perhaps explain how I came into the story. So I was working on the Al Jazeera one-hour documentary called October 7th, just about the events of that day, came out in March. seen it. And while working on that film, I was also during those months writing articles for electronic intifada about what, you know, our research had revealed. And what it revealed was that the Israeli government applied the Hannibal Directive, so-called Hannibal directive very liberally on that day and much more than it ever had in the past on an exponential

scale some would say and have said and for those unfamiliar with the Hannibal directive it's basically um it allows for um the Israeli military to if there is you know a military objective to protect uh and you have to um kill Israeli citizens you are actually a allowed to eat their liver with fava beans and a nice kianti. I hate the name of this directive. I hate this directive name so much because it makes me think of George Pippard in the 18th. Right? Yeah, I know.

That's the worst part of it. That's the worst part. Yeah. Not the dead civilians. Right. Well, look, yeah, explain the handle. Let's put it in perspective. Yes.

Let's put it in perspective. We have, Israelis have, in our memories. the incident of Gilad Shalit. This was an Israeli soldier who was captured in battle and held hostage by Hamas for years. And eventually, Israel paid a heavy price and a political price. And it returned to their, you know, gave the freedom of Palestinian prisoners,

something like a thousand prisoners that had been held in Israeli jails. So at that point, Israel does not want, want to repeat it doesn't it's not it doesn't want to have to pay that price anymore and so it says if a soldier is captured by hamas better that we kill him than he be held in captive and then us have to pay a high price for his return right so that was never really openly acknowledged by the government but it was understood it was that were leaks that you know folks who admitted to it that this was the operating assumption of the army. Maybe it was accepted at one point and then chucked out at some point.

But it was an operating theory of engagement. And but there was only supposed to apply, even in the most extreme case, to soldiers. But here we have on October 7th, all of a sudden there's this massive attack by Palestinian resistance. And even without getting direct instructions, although the instructions may have come from on high, but even without those, you have soldiers on the ground and forces who are implementing it, not against other soldiers, but against Israeli civilians, meaning there are Israeli civilians who are being held hostage,

not in Gaza, but still on the battlefield, in Israeli territory, but held hostage by Hamas gunmen or other resistance gunmen. And these Israeli commanders decide to end their lives so that they won't have to deal with having... And, you know, in some cases it happened from the air when helicopters shot missiles at vehicles that were fleeing Israeli territory

back to Gaza, commandeered by resistance... And then they could be like, look at how Hamas incinerated these vehicles with munitions that they are not in possession of. Right. And in some cases, we have a situation where, you know, people are held hostage in a kibbutz, you know, not on the way, but in the kibbutz itself.

Now, we don't know the full scale of these because if Israel killed them, there's no one to tell the tale. We can kind of read through, and we did this at Al Jazeera, you know, a very fine tooth comb, look at all the numbers and, you know, spoke on the phone to survivors and to family members of those people who died were murdered. And so we can kind of put together a picture of the scale of it. But in the case, in certain instances, we know exactly what happened because there were survivors. So of all of these instances in which the Hannibal Directive was implemented in Israel, by Israel, on October 7th, the biggest example, the example were the most amounts, in fact, the site where the most amount of Israelis were killed in any place in the territory on that day was at the home of this woman, Pesikon, a resident of Kibbutz, Be'eri. more than the NOVA festival

which we talked about last episode no well the NOVA festival is a massive location I'm saying this is the structure the building in which the most amount of Israelis died within the building or in or around the building and as you pointed out there were 15

hostages held 14 of them were Israeli hostages and one of them was killed by Hamas when they took those people hostage when they entered They shot through a door. He was on the other side of the door and he got hit and someone else was wounded.

But the remaining 14 hostages of them, 13 of whom were Israeli. Another one was a Palestinian resident of Jerusalem who was taken captive at the Nova Festival and used to translate between the resistance fighters and the Israelis held hostage at that kibbutz. Just to frame it so that people understand the situation. At this point, the vast majority, if not all, of the hostages have already. already been taken. It's now mid-afternoon. Hamas arrived after six in the morning. And so it's initial onslaught, that's when they took hostages back to Gaza. At this point, all the hostages have been taken back. The only ones left are kind of like the last ones who held the line.

And so they gathered together. And this is the last group of hostages. So they were demanding allow us to return to Gaza with these hostages. And then we'll release them. the next day and then they will go back to the border and go by that's that was their intention and they said so and the survivors say that that's that's yeah they corroborated this as being the the uh what the demands were exactly and they said they were treated fairly obviously with stressful situation but they were given to drink and they were allowed to go aside for fresh air etc yeah but that's stockholm syndrome from four hour or from eight hours they spent with hostage takers eight months ago you know yeah it's it's called stockholm

at first sight, all right, Daniel? So just, all right? You have to understand. But yeah, go on. You had me put your fucking hands in the air. So I'm sure it wouldn't be, you know, a walk in the park. I'm sure it would have been horrific for those people. You're going to minicize it and traumatic, of course.

But again, given what we know about how Gilad Shalit was treated and that he was returned and that he was given to eat and that they did not abuse him during his captivity. So there's reason to believe that these people could have returned happy and healthy at the end of a 24-hour cycle if the negotiation. I'm not the person making that decision, but the people who did make that decision, the commanding officer at the site, first of all, arrived very late, took his time getting there, had enormous resources, decided to wait, his time, took his time. and by the time they find...

I'm sure that half the mistreatment that those people received that day were just from Hamas being fucking irritated and impatient. Like, when's the cavalry getting here? When can we do the... What are we still doing here?

Well, they actually were frustrated. I mean, they didn't take it out, but they, according to the survivors, they say that they kept having to call the police. They got one of the Israelis to call the police saying, can you guys come here? We need you guys to evacuate.

It's fucking El Pacino in Dog Day Afternoon. It's total dog day. I'm dealing with out here. You're fucking incompetence. Negotiate with me. So when they finally arrive, the Israeli forces, they arrive. They arrive shooting. And then, you know, there's a crossfire.

And the crossfire lasts for hours. And at some point, one of the command, anyways, it's a long story. But the point is that at the end of the battle, the Israeli general decides we are going to shoot the tank shells. at the house, even though we know full well that inside this house are not only dozens of Hamas fighters, but also at least a dozen live Israeli, you know, captives or hostages. And we know this because one of these hostages actually walked out because the commander of the Hamas force gave himself up, coordinated over telephone with the commander of the Israeli, you know, forces there, and they negotiated his own surrender. And he did so with

a human shield. He grabbed one of the hostages and walked forward with her until he crossed the Israeli lines and he was taken. And so he himself and the survivor, the hostage, said to the Israeli forces, there's this amount of people there. This is where they are in this room. Is this how many people in that room? Explain the layout and everything. So the general knew exactly how many hostages. He just decided for his own reasons. Yala, we want to make quick work of this and move on and continue on to the other battles. I'm not willing to, you know, take time if that's what it takes. Yeah, let's end this battle, shoot. And of course, with that decision to fire the tank shells, it killed everyone left, meaning all of the Hamas fighters. We don't know how many, we're still alive

at that point, but presumably dozens, if not most, if not almost all. And it killed all of the remaining hostages, including, in some cases, ripping them to shreds from the shrapnel, but in some cases also incinerating them to death. So at the end of the day on October 7th, now the Israeli army has a problem. The problem is that eventually it will have to answer

for this bloodbath, and they will have to explain this carnage and how these people died. Immediately, they go into damage control. mode, you know, and they start trying to figure out what happened and whose bodies were killed by who and who was even there to begin with. And the commander, the Brigadier General Barack Hiram, he covers his ass. He had, you know, straights for the media and gives like a story that makes him seem like I was, you know, noble and courageous and, you know, I should be praised for my

command on that day. But besides covering his own butt, we then had the larger overall objective of explaining Hasbara, explaining to the world what occurred there. Can you ask you a quick question, David? Of course. Jump in any time. Has Israeli society got, because the sense I get is that there's a tacit, almost, acceptance of the Hannibal directive in Israeli society. Like, did they feel they needed to explain it to their countrymen

because there would have been a scandal if they found out? Or is there a sense in which that's just our lot in life? We care more about our soldiers than we do about our civilians, and that's just how we roll. Yeah. I mean, to me this is... Sure. To me, this is one of the biggest thing, like new things to come out of the war or things we've learned since October 7th, because I would not have predicted that.

And in fact, Hamas did not predict that. You could say that that was Hamas' biggest mistake, quote-unquote, of that day. which is they overestimated the price that Israel puts on human life. They had assumed that the Israeli leadership and the Israeli army commanders would care enough about the lives of their civilians and fellow Israelis and fellow Jews that they would be willing to negotiate for this safe return, even if it was at the price of releasing Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails. And they were dead wrong.

They were wrong because we see that Israel has waged war all these months. And they were dead wrong on that day because the commanders in the field decided, no, it's not important enough. And we are going to make the decision for them. It's like the converse of what Stokely Carmichael said. You know, nonviolence only works if your enemy has morals. Well, violence and hostage taking also only works in a sense if your enemy cares about their own civilians. Fuck. Wow.

They're like, oh, my Achilles heel, you know, is someone shooting my mother. And it's like, oh, I better lose the part of me that loves my mother. You know, it's an insane thing to do to, like, completely, you know, just to sacrifice the lives of your citizens for the sake of your citizens. It's nuts. No, and for what? You know, this is one of the relatives of, you know, one of the Israelis who had relatives who died, in fact, who were incinerated to death at that house on that day,

said, I'm willing to pay a price. I am willing to do a cost-benefit analysis and say, no, not under any circumstances was the life of my relatives more precious. I'm willing to consider the possibility that there could have been some objective that superseded that, that overruled it, that would have made more sense to go ahead. But what was it? What did we win by taking the bat? What did we gain from this?

especially with you know with the fact that there were already hostages within Gaza at this point and at this point you know they're just lowering the number that they have for what purpose it's just like well you know every single hostage they take equals you know however many dozens of Palestinian captives that we have to give back well I heard one Israeli commentator some some media figure I think maybe as a politician but I think who's just like a media pundit was like, look, they showed us during the Gilad Shalid incident

what the ratio is, it's a thousand Palestinian lives to one, so they should accept the ratio of who's being killed now. And I was like, I got to say, that's kind of clever. I mean, it's cynical and horrible. It's evil.

But it's, but it's, but at least that's a clever turn of Hasbara, you know? Uh, whew. And when you talk about this, I feel this, like I rarely feel pangs of compassion for the Israeli psyche.

And it's good when I do because it's good to remember that there's an entire country that's being taken hostage by an ideology that is viral and replicates itself and comes up with more and more extreme iterations when you get to the point when you can say, yeah, there's a price to pay

and I would sacrifice the life of my baby or my grandmother or my loved one which then begs the question to me. I mean, that's just a sign that you've been brain damaged. You've been completely traumatized. And held hostage for a long time by your own. But it also makes me wonder, well, what would that price?

What would the cause in the name of which they would have sacrificed their sister's life for? You know, like what victory would have been necessary to justify it? Anyway, it's fucking fascinating. It's fascinating. And so, I mean, it's ironic, but it was really reporting by me and Ali Abunima, editor-in-chief of Electronic Intifada, who really led the way on reporting this story in English because, you know, all of, again, as I said, there were two survivors to the story.

And eventually they began telling their side of the story and explaining what actually happened there. But the Israelis who interview them never drilled down on, like, it eventually, you know, they tell this really dramatic story. Yasmin Porat is the name of the survivor who first came forward. And her story is an incredible story. and she remembers it with such a detail and there was, you know, waves and peaks in any case. But when they get to the point where she explains how that she was Hannibal, they never

drilled down on it and never ask questions and interrogate it. And so it took months and months and months of news trickling out and for the Israeli public to start asking questions. Now, once they do, there are, in fact, some liberal voices who say, this brigadier general who made this decision needs to be on trial, you know, we need to investigate this. This is, we cannot, you know, sit by while this happens. And then the pushback that they got was overwhelming, you know, contra that they received from sectors of society that said, yeah, this man is the kind of commander that we want to see in the Israeli army, not

wishy-washy commanders, they won't take charge. This is the exact. This is the exact, kind of matter we seek and so silence you someone who's going to shoot first and ask questions later you know like a Western we don't we don't want no scrubs we want people who will just scrub sit in civilians lives

I mean what can you expect his name is Haram his name is Barak Haram might as well be you know like you know Barry Trafe you know what I mean it's actually Hiram like Hiram like it's spelled not Hiraan, but meaning like the king of Hira, the king of Lebanon, or Sidon or one of the

Lebanese, yeah, yeah, you know this, right. Well, yeah, but don't, don't be, think that that means foreign to these messianists. They truly believe that Lebanon is also Israel and will soon become Israel. It's going to be 10 years before they elect Prime Minister Nebuchadnezzar, you know? Right, right, right. Foreign minister, Haman. to to wrap up

because we do have to go just what's that? No, I was just to say I never kind of explained the whole colonel who came in

and transformed what was a mass Hannibal or exponential Hannibal into, first of all, whitewash it so that Israelis

don't ask questions, but more to the point, exploit it and turn it into a blood libel. And so the person who did that was, yes, it's true. As you pointed out, these Zaka characters, this organization founded by a child raping terrorist, was in charge of body corpse collection after October 7th,

and they were the ones who made up a lot of these hoaxes and these blood libel. about atrocities alleged to have committed by Palestinian resistance fighters. But who brought Zaka onto the battlefield? And in fact, there was someone. It wasn't just that these men were poorly trained or not trained at all, untrained amateurs who, you know, come from cloistered upbringings and aren't exposed to the world

and never imagine that they would see carnage on such a scale. So it wasn't those people who were supposed to collect corpses because according to army regulations, There is an army unit that is especially prepared for this task and trained to do so to collect these corpses. And the commander of that unit would have been Golan Vach, Colonel Golan Vach, who got there on that day. But instead of using the troops who were trained to be sent- Also named after something Lebanese. Vach? Or sorry, Syrian.

Golan. Golan. Golan, that's right, Golan, right. So Golanvach comes in and he doesn't bring in the soldiers that are trained to. to do corpse collection, he brings in these other co-religionists, other Orthodox men like himself who already have anti-Palestinian agendas. And they then, you know, with a little bit of encouragement, I'm sure, you know, made up these horrific hoaxes about what supposedly subhuman Palestinians were capable of on that day, you know, cutting open a pregnant woman and stabbing

her fetus in the head. I would have loved to have been in the writer's room for that one. Oh, I know. It's just, okay. I have a few ideas. Let's just throw everything at the wall. No bad ideas here. They cut off a titty and they throw it like a football. We need to do that like we need to do a sketch of that, you know, like a Hollywood writer's room. Come on, guys, look alive. Guys, guys, guys.

The animation team is, it needs a script. Yes. There was a Hamas like an octopus, like a hentai style multiple vaping. Yeah. All right. Overlord. Yeah. So this is, this is just it. Okay, we can understand that people who would be shell-shocked, who already have a bias in one direction or another, might have a tendency to exaggerate when they're, you know, taken over by what's more blood than they've ever seen in their entire lives. Okay. There's something to be said for that. So if they see zero burned babies, they might say 100 burned babies, an exaggeration, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. No, clearly we're talking about, you know, manufacturing events that never existed. But, but at least, at least there's, you know, a basis of something. But here we have a situation where it was not someone untrained. It was not someone in an unofficial capacity. We have the head of the Israeli Army rescue unit, someone who is probably the most famous Israeli soldier in the country, at least outside the country, the most famous one, because he's sent abroad as the head of these relief teams whenever Israel, again, wants to, you know, help out another country maybe for its own reasons, maybe for humanistic

humanistic reasons. But in any case, it sends these teams to, you know, to Turkey and to Albania and to India and into the United States too, to Miami when they had that condo collapse a few years back. Whenever there's some kind of natural disaster, they'll send the Israeli team just as other teams send rescue teams. Well, in all other countries, or almost all the countries, these are civilian rescue teams, but Israel is, of course, trying to put a, you know, a positive face on its army. And one of the ways it does that is by making its rescue team a military rescue team. So in any case, he is known throughout the world, including the Muslim world, he's been

faded by Muslim heads of state, plural. And so because he had this stature and people assumed, journalists assumed that whatever he said was true. And so he swept in on Saturday, October 14. but one week after October 7 and he organizes tours for dozens or hundreds of journalists from other countries

and top VIPs from the European Union and from other countries and he takes them on tours of these kibbutzine that were ravaged and destroyed and he stands in front of the homes where Israeli people were killed

and he then tells tall tales but he doesn't do so from a state of, you know, like I'm shaking, I'm shuddering, I can't, you know, no, he's cool, he's calm, he's collected, and he's calculated. He very, you know, calmly explains what happened there and smiles and he doesn't start freaking out. He's, you know, very non-plus as he explains that, no, Hamas took eight babies and concentrated them and burned them to death. And this was the very same house where, in fact, what happened there were there were no babies, and there were no young children. And there were 12-year-olds who, according to the person who had met them for the first time, that survivor, Yasmin Porat, said that they looked 15. So they're obviously healthy adolescents, not looking a thing like a baby.

And in any case, they were on another side of the house, according to Yasmin. But the point is, he just took a mass of adults that clearly had been burned. to death by Israeli tank fire ordered by Brigadier General Barack Hiram and to cover up this and to transform it into a blood libel against Palestinians, make them out to be the worst possible savages. He said that this mass of charred flesh was in fact eight babies and he claims that he evacuated them personally when you have journalists kind of tepidly drilling down saying, was this something you heard from someone?

He's like, no, no, no, no, no. Me, I with my own hands. I took these Burmibs. And at that point, it crushed the ability or the willingness of the media to push back. Because in the first few days that the concept of decapitated babies was floated and proffered by Israeli figures, including, you know, the office of Benjamin Netanyahu. When there was a little bit of, you know, pushback, you know, people, spokesmen who had said so, they started to dance around the issue. they weren't willing to drill down. They couldn't bring any photographs or any proof that would stand up. And so it looked like that story would have perhaps dissipated on its own.

They realized they need someone with a name, someone with a face, someone who would stand behind it and say, I did so with my own hand. So they picked the person who was most famous and most trustworthy. And without, you know, he just stands there and smiles and explains again and again and again to news company. news company, I evacuated eight burned babies that never existed. Although, as Matt and I both know from season five of The Wire, you don't evacuate people. You evacuate buildings. Evacuating a person is giving them an animal. Yeah, this is, it's funny. As he was saying evacuated, there's the first thing I thought of was like, oh, in Neustra, actually, that means to take a shit. It doesn't matter. That's not the

point. The point is the burn. The point is the burn libel. Yeah. They, they, They needed to, he needed to construct. And sometimes he says it in the same recording, you know, without even pressing pause or cutting to another angle. He says, yes, these people, they killed these, you know, they burned these babies to death. And this is why we need to take back territory. This is why we need to clear the territory,

not only around the kibbutz scene, but far beyond that. So then, of course, you know, the news media did not bother to even do basic fact checking. And they didn't not only ask for pictures or the names or ages or, you know, any other proof that these babies, which had never existed, there was no proof of them. But more to the point, they didn't bother even checking into the commander saying so. If they had done their basic due diligence, they would have found out that this guy has a long record of anti-Palestinian racism. In fact, that he steeped in it from birth. The fact that he was, would not Hanna's directory and is the first person that they called.

They're like, hey, you seem like someone who, who's going to do a lie for us. Like, just look at the source of the person who's saying this, man. It's insane. He remembers as the greatest years of his life, the years he spent at the B'nai David Yeshiva in the settlement of Ali. What is this yeshiva? It's a yeshiva that openly preaches for the return of actual slavery to enslave, Palestinians, literally, not figuratively by cantonizing them and using a permit system. No, but literally reinstituting slavery. He says, look, the problem in today's world is that these

properties, these former properties are causing damage. What we need to do is to reinstitute slavery, and then they will be happy for. They will be happy to be slaves of Jews. What can you do? They're genetically inferior. This is all on video. These are the top rabbis giving lectures at this reshiva that again is funded by the kahanah movement's top funders the phallic family of florida so here i'm sorry what i'm sorry what the what yes oh come on don't tell me you guys don't know about these guys they are the biggest funders of both natanayahu and the kahanah movement and their family name once again is is phalic wow f-l-l-i-c but yeah these guys are they're not just dicks they're assholes they're evil incarnate they have for years funded

As I said, look, phallic hyphen rectal. Yes, well, they married into the rectal family. That's the maiden name. No, we should shame them. And these people, sadly, not only have they funded, you know, because this isn't something that the Kahana movement has done for a long time. Again, going back at least to the late 80s, if not earlier, where you had, but certainly once Kahana himself died and no longer was the figurehead of the

movement, Kahanist funders realize, okay, if we're going to put Kahanis values in Israel's operating system, we need to kind of bifurcate our efforts. On one hand, we need someone at the vanguard to push pure kahanism, but we also need someone to work within the mainstream in order to pull the mainstream in that general right-wing tilt. And so that's why since then you have Kahanis funders, top funders, also being the top funders of Netanyahu. campaigns from, you know, Netanyahu, at least from the, when he's running for a Likud party leader in the mid-1990s throughout. So then it was Moscovitz's and Sam Dome and other funders of the Kahanis.

It's a whole world. And we have so many other questions. There's so many other questions that I think we're going to run out of time. But like in this documentary last night, I saw like footage of new like young settlers who are neo-Kahanists who are breaching the fence and going into Gaza and being like, We're taking it. We're here. But like, I guess we'll have to pick that up the next time you're on that has Barra.

We could do that. I just want to add one last thing. Please. These family, the one that I just mentioned, the phallic family, they not only fund the Kahana movement. They also fund plenty of U.S. politicians, including from the Democratic Party. There's a whole host of this, the Kahanas caucus of the Democrats. And that includes, of course, Debbie Wasserman and Schultz, includes Chuck Schumer, includes, of course, Josh Gottheimer, you know, so these are the people who have for years steered a Kahana-friendly

policy. And in fact, Biden himself is probably the leading, it's not just that he's the biggest recipient of APAC aid in Senate history. He also, if we recall, in May 2022, he was the person whose State Department delisted the Kahana movement from the State Department list of terrorist groups. Remember, since that mass murder, right, they had been considered terrorists be on the tail. That is not the kind of phallic aid that man needs. This is how sick it gets. Netanyahu needed him to take them off the terrorist list.

Why? Because he wanted to bring Benvir into his government. So he couldn't have an official open terrorist as his police minister. Biden did in the favor of delisting the kahanists. And then it, you know, provided the impetus for Netanyahu to bring him in. And here's where we are today. So the Democrats are just as, you know, guilty of being the handmaidens of kahanism as the Republicans, if not more so. Yeah, but democracy is on the ballot.

So what are you going to do? Democracy is on the ballot in November. You have, there is no choice. You have to vote kahanist or else the orange Cheeto nightmare going to. When, I don't know, man. I got to say, I got to say, it was a horrible line. It was horribly racist. And if I was Palestinian, I might feel very differently about it.

But I, call me an evil, but the line, he's, he's more like a Palestinian, but he's, but, and that would have been a terrible line on its own. But because he added, but they don't like him, he's a bad Palestinian. He's a very bad Palestinian. Because he's one of the, is one of the funniest lines I've ever heard in my life. Fucking pure evil. Yeah. But the timing, oh.

I mean, racist is shit. Racist is shit. If there's one thing that Trump is good at is making the most racist thing you've ever heard sound kind of funny. He's got funny cadence. What are you going to say? David, we need to have you back because there's obviously so much more that I want to hear about. I mean, this is my first time hearing about the penis family. And to me, I'm like, that is we need to hear more about these dicks.

but for now I want to say thank you we need to slap the dick out of the hands of Chuck Schumer we need to slap those phallies out of the hands of Debbie Wasserman Schultz yes we need to slap their dicks out and then we you know just like hey

you know we need to beat their meat that's right at the ballot I want you to come I want you to come exactly and David thank you also for your work like and seriously please pass on our compliments to Ali Abonima, we'd love to have him on. It was you guys and the Gray Zone and very few others

who, from the start, were asking these questions in the face of such calumny. And it's such, this is what investigative journalism is supposed to be. And it must have really taken something in the face of all of the hysteria post-October 7th to do that. So we really just appreciate you. Yeah.

And we're going to put links to all of the things you talked about, including, you know, this article, which you absolutely should read. There's also an accompanying video and to your social media where I've seen, you know, you're talking about Lahava and talking about, you know, the Kahanis movement more broadly and specifically at the same time. And we're going to make sure we get your social medias out there.

But David, thank you so much for coming on Bad Hasbara talking with us. Thank you to everyone out. there who keeps listening to this show and supporting us patreon.com slash bad hasbara badhasbara at gmail.com for all your questions comments and concerns and daniel are you ready to take us on out of here i think i am in honor of my living color t-shirt from the river to the sea like ben givir and kahanee i'm the cult of personality nice da da da no no no no yeah da da da da da da da da da da da Thank you for listen, man.

I'll see you next time. Chupang! Oh! Oh, my khanana can suck my dick, the phallic family can to eat on my dick. We're out. We're out. We're out of here. Jumping Jacks was us. Push-ups was us.

Godmaga, us. All karate us. Taking Molly us. Michael Jackson us. Yamaha keyboards. Us. Charger makes not us. Handor was us.

Keith Ledger Joker us. Endless Red Success us. Happy meals was us. McDonald's was us. Being happy us. Bequam yoga us. Eating food. Breathing air, us, drinking water, us.

We invented all that shit.