Bad Hasbara - The World's Most Moral Podcast - Bad Hasbara 78: Sieg Heart, with Eli Valley

Episode Date: January 23, 2025

Matt and Daniel are joined by artist and satirist Eli Valley to talk over the continuing ceasefire and hostage release, Elon Musk stretchin' that arm out, and the public garment rending of shiksa-passing American Jewish entertainers.Please donate to Muslim Aid USA: mausa.orgGet Eli’s latest, Museum of Degenerates: orbooks.com/catalog/museum-of-degenerates/Subscribe to Eli’s patreon: patreon.com/elivalleySubscribe to the Patreon https://www.patreon.com/badhasbaraSubscribe/listen to Bad Hasbara wherever you get  your podcasts.Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/5RDvo87OzNLA78UH82MI55Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bad-hasbara-the-worlds-most-moral-podcast/id1721813926Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/bad-hasbara/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Moshwam ha bitch, a rib and poker toad. We invented the terry tomato and weighs USB drives and the iron d'all. Israeli salad, oozy, stents, and javas orange crows. Micro chips is us. iPhone cameras us. Taco salads us. Pothalas us. Olive garden us.

White costs for us. Zabrahamas. As far as us. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Bad Hasbara. The World's Most Moral Podcast. Yes, I am your World's Most Moral co-host, Matt Lieb. I'm Daniel Mate, fulfilling the role of world's other most moral co-host. Yes, and we thank you so much for listening slash watching to another episode of Bad Hasbara.

We first want to say shout out to producer Adam Levin on the ones and twos. He's out here right in Chiron's and editing the podcast. Touching up our appearances on the floor. Yes, making sure we look hot so that the masses of people who watch the show will be sexually attracted. to us lamenting acceleration same same same same it is it is a beautiful Tuesday when we are recording this

if you are you know listening then you're most likely listening on a Thursday who knows what will have happened by the time this episode comes out you know anything is possible but it seems like every day there's more

horrible news that more than we handle so that's why we're just glad to be surrounded by you good folks out there who um you know are are not pieces of shit which is you know i think that's the first time i've ever told an audience that they weren't a pieces of shit so you should feel honored that's an affirmation coming from that it is i'm usually just talking about you guys as various forms of livestock but in this case no we are we are all together and that is nice um Oh, the inauguration really hit you hard, didn't it?

It was a bummer. It was a bummer. It was a mixture of like, like, you know, here we go. The circus is in town and like, oh, wow, this could be bad. Like, just mindlessly signing executive orders about like ending birthright citizenship and undoing the. um you know the embargo on two thousand pound bombs that biden the one thing that he did against uh the israeli government just immediately overturning that uh yeah uh yeah man everything's a bummer

it was it was uh you know pretty bad i have this this thing i notice in myself there's a weird bummer feeling in me i'm like oh the democrats are gone i don't get to beat up on the democrats anymore now i have to beat up on republicans and it's not that i'm a republican i don't right one bone on my body, but there's something I prefer being in the position of emotionally, psychologically, for whatever reason, I feel more comfortable.

That's because one side feels shame. Maybe it's the smugness or the of being able to say, look at these hypocrites, look at these fake centrist people, look at the leftist, the former leftist, the former leftist sellouts on

their side. Yeah, yeah. You know, that position is more comfortable to me than oh, look at the, look at the encroaching fascists. Right, no, of course. And part of me goes to sleep a little bit because it's just, they're just so obviously these dinosaurs, these, you know, with their oligarch brigade and their Nazi salutes and it, some part of me, I think,

just kind of short circuits. I don't know what to say about it. No, I, it's bad. And I don't, and, and part of me is uncomfortable being in a position where all I can say is, it's bad. I like to be like, oh, look how ridiculous it is, huh, right. It's not, it's not. So I have to admit, like, yeah, under the second Trump, uh, what do you want to call it, Imperium. Yeah, I'm, it's a weird, it's a weird feeling. And I, and part of me misses having the Democrats to kick around. Well, right. I mean, that that's because, um one side is pretending and the other one's not like what i mean yeah and i like and i like kicking rules and pretense the pretense that's what i get off on that's the that's like the

the funniest part that's that's what is crazy about it is you know that's why liberal zionism is funnier than just straight up right wing psychopath hilltop boy zionism because you're just like you know yeah the other guys are like oh no those are like murderers and psychopaths Right. And in a time like this, now that the reigns of empire have been handed back to MAGA, now I've got to have liberal Zionists on the same side of the room as me sometimes, you know, Shia al-Benefriam, like, you know, whining about Trump's executive orders and like, you know, it, it, I much prefer the breakdown of who's on what side when, when the pretenders are in power.

It's just, and it's just, this is all just, it's just, uh, it's just the hedonic treadmill of my preferences of, of, of how I like to consume content and how my personality lines up. It's doesn't, it's nothing to do with real principles. No, of course, of course. I'm not thinking about the real consequences for real people. I'm thinking about my, the, the, the, the entertainment value of my social media engagement, which is, right, as deep as functionally sometimes, my personality goes. Yeah, no, I'm the same way.

Yeah. I completely understand. This has been always an issue with me, which is one of the reasons why I find people's like, it's interesting. I find the way that people freak out about Trump to be, for the most part, valid. And people, I think, make fun of people, you know, for like Trump derangement syndrome. And I'm like, no, people are right to be afraid. of Trump. People are a right to be worried about it. There are people who are doing it in bad faith, and that, to me, is more interesting when it's Democrats who have spent all the time in the last four years saying,

do not, you know, we got to make sure fascism doesn't come. And then you see, you know, Trump wins and Barack Obama's like sitting next to Trump and like, you know, fucking cracking jokes or patting each other on the back. George W. Bush comes

over, gives them a reach around, and you're just like, oh yeah, that's right. And Liz Cheney is getting the presidential medal of freedom. Right. Nobody in power cares. And that's when, you know, to me, it's like, it's, that is

a thousand times more interesting than just kind of this like Neanderthal, like knee-jerk, right-wing reactionary fascist dick wads who are just like, oh, we should kill all the guys. You know, it's just like, to me, this is, this is, you know, it's, it's not as funny to me than someone who's just like, we have to go.

Here we are worried on the first full day of the second Trump administration and our deepest worry. If we go up all the way deep down, if we're honest, it's not that more people are going to die or going to suffer. We're worried that the world's going to be less funny. Yeah. This is coming after 15 months after a genocide. We are six, six, six. sick people. It's not just not funny, but also I'm worried it's like, oh, this is going to be even more depressing than it was. That's right. Because of the lack of pretense. There'll be

no refuge for scoundrels like us. Yes, no. But I mean, you know, this is, this is of course remembering that humor is also a defense mechanism against, you know, the other side of the coin, which is... I'm not defending against anything. I'm fine. Ha ha ha ha. Yeah. No, it is all rage. Uh, and sometimes the only way to express my rage is to make jokes. Um, but yeah, it's, it's all, it's all a big bummer, but you know, what's not a big bummer is today's sponsor. Good transition. Uh, today's episode is brought to you by Muslim Aid USA. Muslim Aid USA is working on the ground to provide safe and sustainable water and sanitation to communities in Gaza. You can donate right now at

MAUSA.org and yeah, so please do that and do that before you know donating to the Patreon. But if you must, we do have a Patreon, patreon.com slash bad Hezbarra, bonus episodes, bonus live streams, extra content to fill your little piggy trough. You can just you lap up all the slop that you want and roll around

in the muck get that snout dirty that's right you're good pigs though I love you um and uh Daniel what's the spin um today well you can see on the wall behind me I've got uh Gil Scott Herron of a man I was listening to The Revolution

and will not be televised just a nice uh you know Is that also Whitey on the moon Not on that uh not on this version of it no that this album doesn't have it, but it's a great, that's a great track. I love that one. I bet my sister now, but Whitey's on the moon. But White is on the moon. No, but I was thinking the revolution will not be televised.

Well, you know, hopefully. The reaction will be. The end of American democracy will also not be televised because it doesn't happen in one event, but I don't, what the fuck do I know? But mainly my mind is on this guy right here, where is he? There, Garth Hudson of the band, the last living member of the band passed away today.

Oh, no. seven great Canadian multi-instrumentalist and they are all gone now Richard Manuel Levon Helm Robbie Robertson Rick Danco and now got Hudson they played with Bob Dylan they were his backing band and made some great music on their own so yeah just I will be rewatching the last waltz in their honor yeah that's kind of a peon to Robbie Robertson's ego and his friendship with Martin Scorsese and a lot of cocaine done but it's a great film. Yeah.

A great, great film, and Garth Hudson does it up on the organ and the accordion and the saxophone and he was just such a great,

he was the heart and soul of that group of that band. Well, that's what's spinning today for me. That's what's spinning RIP to a real one.

Also RIP David Lynch, you know, again. You know, I've never seen anything by David Lynch. I'm a total,

I'm a total, Ethan. What should I start with? Is Twin Peaks a good starting place? Yeah, first season or Quinn Peaks. I'm one of those guys who's like two normal brains to enjoy the second season. I'm like, I watched the second season and I'm like, I feel like they just were

like, oh, we're doing another season. All right. Let's see what's going on with it. And I couldn't. It was too weird, too weird, but, you know, Mulholland Drive. Mahal and Drive. That's good. Yeah. The OG Dune. It's good. The OG Dune is good. You'd like I think I don't know you probably like it you like Star Wars same thing someone out there is right now just like shaking their fists what do you mean it's the same there are no sand worms in Star Wars gosh um yeah so all right p to a real one all right ladies and gentlemen everyone else we have a wonderful guest today today we are walking through the valley of the shadow of grotesque political satire that's right

He's got a new book out right now called the Museum of Degenerates. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome political artists and satirist, Elie Valley. Hi. Hi, hi. Thank you for having me. Thank you for coming on. Appreciate the invite and all that. Eli, Ali, Eli.

Yeah, Lama sabakhtani. Hey, look at this. You guys speaking languages. Why have that was forsaken me? Yeah, that's what Jesus said on the cross, apparently. Ellie means my god Oh shit I thought that was a quote

Isn't that a system of a down song Very possibly Oh you never listen to System of a Down? No it's not really my name Why have you forthaken me In your eyes Totally got it from System of a Down Yeah that's what I think

I think he stole it from those Totally got it from Serge-Tunkeon Yeah So Ellie Uh, were you, uh, were you watching the, uh, inauguration at all? Uh, yeah, I was actually. By the way, um, you were doing your intro, I didn't want to, I don't even think I was miced up. I couldn't interrupt, but you were saying a lot of things that were very, um, resonant with me about the, you know, the return of Trump and, um, uh, political satire. Um, um, you know, Daniel, you were saying that, uh, you can't, you can't mock Democrats anymore, but I don't know. To me, it's like, I don't want to be. drawing Trump I've already drawn him sorry for like going on my speech immediately but no please I've already drawn him I there's nothing else to say the as you as you you guys said you can't shame them but um it's it's I'm there there's no way to change these monstrosities and everybody knows

anybody who doesn't know by now they're not going to know yeah Democrats I feel a a vast feeling of betrayal from them and um and from centrists and from liberals who continue to act like, well, first of all, pretending that Kamala Harris-Mirana leftist campaign, but also acting like they need to be even more centrist in the future. I feel like they handed us, they handed Trump back to us. They handed us to Trump, and they are the ones who deserve our scorn and absolute fury. But can I ask you something about that? Yeah.

Because you've never been shy about calling Trump a fascist, that's no nationalist, a white supremacist, all these kinds of things. Neither have the centrist Democrats. That was a big part of their non-campaign. They didn't run on any sort of platform or offer anyone, any kind of vision. All they did was take kind of slogany, leftist bromides against, leftist sounding bromides against Trump and just repeat them and say, look at the other guys, they're terrible, whatever, whatever.

Or, you know, why wasn't that enough? It wasn't enough because it was all bromides. With them, it was just an electoral pitch. It was just to continue getting their careerist sinecures, right? If they believed it, they would have prosecuted, you know, the crimes, the multiple crimes of the previous regime. They, it wouldn't, as you said, they shake his hand afterwards. I mean, one of my first comics of the Trump era was Obama with arms around a clansman saying, Mark of a Great Strength of a Democracy, that we can orchestrate peaceful transfer of power.

You know, there should be no peace with fascists. And for Democrats, there should be peace. There should be compromised, bipartisanship, and synergy with fascists. Well, that's nothing new. I mean, Obama is the one who said, we look forward. We don't look back when it came to prosecuting the copious war crimes of their previous. regime, which if you're going by international policy, you had a lot more to prosecute the Bushes for than you did the Trump era. And it was just established by the Democrats. No, we don't

do that because we're a continuation of this regime. We're just going to put a nicer face on it. Agreed. I mean, you know, I feel like I'm consistent in terms of calling them what they are and also saying we need to act on that. Whereas Democrats call them what they are when it suits them. And then immediately, like Schumer, you know, all you need to say is Schumer. You don't need to say anything else. But, you know, he's going over back, bending over backwards to appease and conciliate. Yeah. And I think that like, you know, the idea that somehow because you are critical of Democrats, it means you are not critical of the right is absolutely ridiculous. I feel like there are people who think that if only leftists didn't point out the faults

of the Democrats, then we would never have Trump. If we just shut our mouths and didn't say what Biden was doing wrong, what Kamala was doing wrong. And it's, it's, I mean, especially in this particular situation of a genocide happening, it is particularly discussed I remember seeing, seeing early on in the genocide after October 7th, there was liberal Zionists that I were seeing, that I was seeing who were essentially saying, this is all part of the Netanyahu plan. The Netanyahu plan is to mire the Biden administration in this terrible war. To make them work tirelessly for nothing. Yes, make them work tirelessly.

make them look bad so that they can eventually get Trump. And that's not to say that this is wrong. It's not to say that Netanyahu hasn't been on record, and the right wing in Israel hasn't been on record or is preferring Trump. But what's disgusting about it is what the liberal Zionists were actually implying with this statement was,

therefore, we shouldn't fall for this plan. What we should do is not make a big deal out of this whole Gaza thing we should shut our mouths for the sake of defeating Trump and I'm sorry but like you know it's it's not just that that's immoral but the messaging

doesn't even fucking work I mean that didn't that doesn't do anything for anyone no one goes like yeah yeah you're right you're right we should you know all everyone should just be quiet because the other option is or Biden could show some guts and stop the fucking arming of an apartheid state.

That's not actually asking a lot, especially if you claim to share the same moral principles as, you know, everyone else in your party, especially if you are the party that is supposed to be showing some sort of leadership, moral leadership when it comes to being against racism, against apartheid, against ethnic cleansing, you know, all the leftist shit, right?

No, instead they're just like, so what we should do is just shut our mouth about it. And to me, I find it particularly disgusting because not only is it immoral, but it's also was clearly the wrong, like, strategy. Like, let's, you know, yell at leftists for talking. Yeah, Ryan Grimm had a new piece, some sort of polling showing that Gaza was the single biggest issue that cost Democrats. Yeah.

They'll never accept that and they'll never learn. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, you know. Okay, negative, Nancy. Yeah. Yeah, come on, man. Sometimes they learn.

Evaluated, Ellie. But yeah, this is, you know, Ben, I think, what I love about your art, Ellie, is that you, you, the way in which you draw the grotesqueness of these people is, I think, just, it's visceral when I, when I look at your art. It's, it's, like, it makes me feel things. And I'm not someone who particularly feel. things at images, you know, I mean, like drawn images or paint. I'm a weird, a Philistine when it comes to that. You know, I go to a museum and I'm just like, I don't know, I'm going to look at this

landscape and count the birds until I go to the next one. But it's, it's really incredible work you do. Thank you. Matt only, like watch Mad Men. That's true. Well, Matt, yeah, but when, I mean, I want to ask you, Ellie, about this, just the choice to go for the grotesque. And in the introduction to your book, you talk about Jewish memory and Jewish trauma as a deep well for your imagistic language. What is it about Jewish traumatic memory but also Jewish cultural memory that lends itself towards the dark, the gross, the visceral, the you know, like, because there is

something very when you go back and read Yiddish stories and I forget who it was. There was Isaac Bacheva singer who wrote about Jewish immigrants coming to America and just

just getting in Philip Roth and, you know, What is it about our, where do you place yourself in the lineage of Jewish satire? And how does that inform that that kind of really grotesque strain through your work? Hmm. Big question. Very all-encompassing. I mean, no, it's a good question.

I could say a lot. I just, I want to, I should distinguish between like the over-the-top sat satirical stuff, which is influenced by both Yiddish cartoons, but also primarily mad comics in the 1950s, which was the main source of my inspiration for work in Diaspora Boy and, like, the American Jewish, you know, the broadsheet comics for the forward I was doing like 10 years ago at this point, basically.

You know, these narratives of like absolute bonkers stuff happening, which unfortunately many of those things were just like a step away from reality at a time, and now they're almost behind reality. But then with Trump, it just became so obscene, especially within the Jewish world, within the Jewish communal world, watching organizations that were supposed to be protecting us, they were supposed to be safeguarding our rights, just leaping in with, you know, calm fascist, whatever you want to call them, with a movement that are the inheritors or the heirs of, you know, calm fascists, whatever you want to call them, with a movement that are the inheritors or the heirs of, the most viciously anti-Semitic and genocidal, genocally anti-Semitic movements in history. Watching them do that all because of apartheid,

all to shore up Israel. And all, you know, just like sacrificing American Jews for Israel was such a grotesque shock that my art turned, I guess, you know, I didn't really think about this consciously, but it turned both from the broadsheets, the multi-panel narratives of mad comics, into just this angry scabs of rage in the Trump era. And, you know, linking that, you know,

I link it to degenerate artists of the mid-century, also Yiddish artists earlier. I mean, there are a lot of artists that, you know, I'm inspired by, you know, Mexican artists, too, like woodcutters. But with Jewish memory, it's more, it's partly the art, but it's also partly just, you know it's not just it's not just like visual art it's also sort of like consciousness of you know what we've been through where we're going and what we're doing now yeah yeah you

mentioned uh diaspora boy uh and i just for our audience i want to show uh one of uh you're diaspora boy and Sabra Man. No, Israel Man. Israel Man. Israel man. Sabreman's good too. Yeah. So this is, I think, was, I don't know what, when you drew, started drawing Israel man and diaspora boy, the harbinger of death. But it was always to me, like the comic that stands out or the images that stand out

when I think about the way in which the Israeli government and all of the Zionist institutions that, or Jewish American institutions that have been completely co-opted by Zionism, this is how it's always felt to me is this version of like, oh, in Israel, Jews are hot. In Israel, Jews are strong. Unlike you weak diaspora Jews out there who go like, lambs to the slaughter and uh are surrounded by the enemy um and uh i just i just love i love the way you've you've drawn israel man is so great because it's just it's just an aryan guy essentially you know it's powdered toast man from rennes yeah it's powdered toast man

powder um but you know able to see uh 10 000 years into the future perfect nose evolved from uh what is that, Greco-Roman ideal, skin, sun bronze from fields of farming and battle. Meanwhile, you've got, you know, diaspora boy who, I mean, I'll be honest. I don't know too many people who, at least I have looked in the mirror and seen this guy many times in my life. Can I just interrupt just to quickly say, sorry, I don't mean to interrupt, but I... Please always interrupt. Okay.

I want to like replace my, you know, social media avie with something more recent. because I used Diaspora Boy as my Abbey. I was doing it to, you know, publicize the book, like years ago. Yeah. And unfortunately, some people don't really get it. And I, you know, I don't want to give ammunation to my haters. But they think it's a self-portrait or, you know,

they don't get that I'm mocking Zionist mythology and Zionist hatred. And that bothers me. So, but I hear what you're saying when you say you can see yourself. I mean, it shouldn't bother you. I mean, I'm sure it does. And I understand. But, like, I think that there's, I think it's what makes it vulnerable and honest. Like, first of all, anyone who's reading it in bad faith, anyone who's looking at that

and going like, you're drawing Nazi cartoons, which you have gotten a lot. People, you know. Right. I just want to say, there are some people who are on my side, who are allies. And I think it's a minority, and maybe I only notice it because it's so wrong. Right, right. They do that. And recently I saw someone commenting, and I just didn't want to get it.

get into it, you know, like, I can't talk to everybody. Yeah. But they were saying, they were defending me by saying he is appropriating because someone was saying, you're Dersdermer, everything you do is Dersdermer, you're a Nazi, that kind of shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some defender was saying, no, he is appropriating Nazi art and owning it. And it's like, no, that's not what I'm doing.

It's like, the Zionists are only able to see things through Nazism, through Nazi art. They cannot, they don't know what Yiddish cartoons are. They don't know mad comics. They only see, so it's like black and white. That has to be Nazism. And that's not me. This is Yidd, and so it's like when someone defends me by saying, no, he's appropriating Nazism, I'm not appropriating Nazism.

And it's really offensive and I didn't want to, you know, it's a fan. So tell us about Yiddish, tell us about the Yiddish cartooning tradition. Well, I mean, it was just a great, I mean, in Warsaw, but also in New York, you know, where I'm located. Both of you are in L.A., right? I'm in L.A. I'm in Brooklyn. Oh, I didn't know. Okay. So, yeah. New York. It was a great, you know, just this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, culture of, you know, freewheeling, everything from theater, obviously, to

newspapers, like, you know, all these Yiddish newspapers and cartoons were a big part of it, intra-communal stuff, like, you know, trashing, well, trashing the forward in other, in competitor newspapers, trashing communal leaders, trashing rabbis. There's this guy, William Gropper, who I really like, an interesting guy, and I want to, I he's an interesting guy I don't want to go too into it right now but I feel a little there's a I don't know

you guys are you going to edit this yeah yeah yeah we can edit whatever you want there's there's a Yiddish scholar that he used to be good friends with and after October 7th things kind of fell apart and oh that's too bad yeah but he gave a presentation of William Cropper comparing his drawings of Jewish communal leaders and Zionists

and basically saying that he was anti-Semitic and I think it's much more nuanced than that but basically he was drawing these Zionist fundraisers in the synagogue as monsters basically and it's pretty funny considering what we know today this is before the state of district was established this is I don't know in the 30s I think

I need to check I mean I have it all here and then You know, so I think, you know, he was in many ways vindicated by history, but also with the advent of World War II, he became one of the most prolific and impassioned opponents of fascism and artists against Hitler. And he did some really wonderful stuff then as well. This part, you can edit out because what I'm about to say. Oh my God. I can't believe what you have said behind the bleep, unfortunately. none of you will know. There's no Patreon tier.

But yeah, I mean, just in terms of, you know, going back to thinking about diaspora boy, I think there are people who misinterpret art in good faith and people who do it in bad faith. I obviously think you should ignore anyone

who does in bad faith. And in terms of people who just, you know, don't get it, uh, who are fans. Um, you know, I, uh, I, I would say for every one of them, there's another, you know, hundred who, uh, know exactly what you're doing and, uh, what you're inspired by. And, uh, more importantly, understand where you're coming from politically. I think it is very clear where you're coming from. And, uh, so I, let me just say it, it's, wouldn't worry about it it's telling though that there's there's a lot of cultural amnesia when it comes to Jewish culture sure that's one of the successes not even amnesia what's that in terms of

young people it's not amnesia because they never even learned they never even learned it because it got wiped out there's one of the successes of the Zionism and the Nazi genocide hand in hand is that Yiddish culture so we wouldn't know what a subversive and um uh uh transgressive, blasphemous, anarchic, raucous culture we had, I still don't know nearly enough about it, but I can see it in, and you can see on superficially how someone would look very, very, very superficially if they didn't know that Yiddish culture contains so much self-parity and so much of a scabrous approach to grotesquizing the obscenities of. of the world.

They look at your thing, they look at Nazi art, and they say, oh, there's a Jew with exaggerated Jewish features or something like that, and they equate the two. But that's like someone not being able to understand, I don't know, certain hip-hop lyrics from anti-black racism. You know, like something coming from within a culture, has a completely different context and that context in our case when it comes to you know yiddish culture either in eastern europe or even in america and zionism's gone a long way i'd love

to hear more from you about how it how it did this um that's just erased that aspect and i think part of this podcast is matt and i have somewhere in our DNA if not in our conscious memory some memory that Jews are supposed to be gross and self-consciously wrong in our humor as a way of lightening the mood and bringing more light and love into the world, not as a way of proving the anti-Semites right. Yeah. That came out completely wrong. No, I understand completely. I know. I understand perfectly. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, when you were talking about The Nazi obliteration, yes, I was also thinking, though, Zionist indoctrination. I mean, of course.

I think, I don't know if any academic, if they even could do this and still, you know, maintain their spot, but to actually tabulate how much money has been invested in Zionist, because whenever they do these, these polls, well, don't you see most Americans are Zionists, it's, first of all, not necessarily true. Most American Jews, I mean, might support the existence of Israel in some fashion, you know. right if you just put it if you phrase it a certain way right um but they they never qualify that with um you know there have been hundreds of millions of dollars if not billions but definitely hundreds of millions if you just birthright alone in indoctrination efforts to make sure this is reality so it's like okay what if what if we had hundreds of millions of dollars in um you know yiddish um education um right secular socialist jewish history education. I mean, sure, that's my own thing, obviously. You don't have to be that

you know, particular parochial. But non-Zionists at least, you know, I think those figures would be absolutely different. It's when you, when you contextualize them within just reading the fucking news. Yeah. I spoke to someone recently who's working on setting up the first anti-Jewish anti-Jewish. Excuse me. Whoa. Oh, please bleep. That was a Freudian slip. Uh-oh. You're a motion to someone recently who was working on setting up the first anti-Zionist day school. Oh. Not ready to announce it, but.

Oh, yeah. Say that again because I did a, uh, I did, I did a sting over you saying it. Oh, the whole thing. Just the part where you said, uh, I, as someone who's setting up, uh, anti-Zionist day school. Well, to remedy that, uh, you know, there are people working on it behind the scenes. They're not ready to announce yet. But I had a conversation recently with someone who was working on trying to found the first anti-Zionist Jewish day school. Wow.

And they're sort of weighing whether to call it anti-Zionist or non-Zionist or just diasporist. They should call it anti-Semitic. I'm sorry. Yeah, I mean, you know. White supremacists could send their kids there to learn Hebrew and to hate Jews. Exactly, exactly. No, your enemy or whatever. no it is it's something that you know i've talked about on this uh podcast before and i've had

you know a few people reach out um about some anti zionist temple uh in chicago um because i was like you know it would be nice if there was uh a hebrew school that was if not anti zionists just non zionists where that was you know not a um not a concern but it's like you know it becomes harder and harder to, you know, convince myself that, like, I can, you know, get the, take on the job of undoing the programming of Zionism, you know, with my daughter in day school, you know what I mean? It's just like, then I have to, like, every day, okay, what did you learn? And it's like, okay, good, you learn the Aleph bet. Did you learn anything about Israel? You know, I, you know, I don't know how Daniel, you know, you were able to do it in your own family in terms of like being able to

I mean, you had the anti-Zionist father, but you know, going to the like the Zionist the Zionist cabots, you know, and whatnot, it's just like, that's, that's, your, your dad is putting a lot on himself to, uh, uh, to, um, what it called reprogram or unprogram you. He didn't work that hard at it. He just, he just, you know, took us to see manufacturing consent and, or yeah, the Chomsky documentary, he exposed us to books. He thought were good antidotes to design this education and he trusted that we would work our way out of it. I'm not sure

if that's the best approach, but, you know, I think, I think we turned out okay. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, pretty good. at least. But, Ellie, I want to talk about one thing in which you and I think both have in common or at least we, one of the reasons I really enjoy your work is because of your very specific take on the role of like liberalism within Zionism, the way that you are able to criticize Israel itself for its pretense of being a democracy. And you do so in many of your cartoons. One that I really think is great is, you know, this one right here, where is the IDF soldier, you know,

yelling at a bunch of Palestinians that they're, you know, currently either, you know, displacing or sending somewhere, you know, Yala, hurry up. I'm late for the democracy march in Tel Aviv. You know, like this is a, I think it's a perfect encapsulation of the thing that I think we were talking about earlier, the pretense of liberals and the way in which they are able to, I don't know, obfuscate the deep moral rot at the center of their systems and society by, you know, just being like, well, we've got a march we're going to do. It's for democracy. And in the explanatory notes to that cartoon or that strip or whatever, the comic, that pick, that drawing, you mentioned that there was actually an Israeli reservist or some sort of pro-democracy activist on whom that quote was based. Can you tell us more about that?

Yeah, I mean, I'll just read it. Shikma Bressler, protest leader. It was during the democracy or the anti-judicial reform. Marches and demonstrations in 2023 when Netanyahu was taking further steps to erode what exists of democracy in Israel. And so Shikma Bressler said

Israel must preserve democracy in order to protect quote, the heroes who are now waging war in Janine from exposure to prosecution in the Hague. This was in 2023, July, August, September. So this is published three months before October 7th. And so they were talking about the Hague already. And Janine, there was, I wrote about it here, but it was, I think, the largest, at that time, the largest Israel assaults on the West Bank. And let me just see.

And they've just launched another one, by the way, in the last couple of days with the operation name. At the time, it was the most expansive airstrikes on the West Bank in two decades. A thousand troops in the Janine refugee camp and mass displacement, or a big displacement. And this person's argument was the judicial corruption at the heart of the Netanyahu regime is going to expose our brave boys and girls to war crimes prosecution? I think what it was was this. If we don't have a strong independent judiciary in Israel where we can do our trials of our soldiers who are accused of stuff. And of course, you know, shocking, they were they were found not guilty. their international institutions will do it i think that that was the context for that i need to

like go back and remember but i i think she was saying that in order to uh call for the preservation of uh independent judiciary yeah so the our pretense of a justice system protects us from the reality of a real justice system out there in the big bad galute right right i mean they claim that you know every international institution is uh anti-semitic and people by terrorists yeah Right. So, I mean, they've said this literally about it's so funny. It's like one of the funniest arguments that they do that like you have to be deeply, deeply programmed to not find it funny, which is every time you accuse them of like, you know, being racist against Arabs, you know, or doing apartheid, you know, they're just like, no, we're not. We're not racist. is only saying that because they're filled with Arabs. It's like, that's just because the UN is run by Arabs.

That's why you think we're a racist against Arabs, but it's not. It's just Arabs have a deeply ingrained racism against us. You're just like, Jesus Christ. Oh, people who think we're racists wear rags on their heads. Right, exactly. It's like, I'm having so many deja vus now

because what you're saying is literal. It's like verbatim stuff. It is. It's wild. And it's just so funny to watch anyone take it seriously. Anyone just go, like, yeah, exactly. And this is my problem with the pretense, you know, we keep bringing it back to the pretense.

But the pretense itself is just makes the evil really pop. You know what I mean? It's like a contrasting color. It's like when two colors work really well together, you know something you visual like yeah so first time i've ever ever talked about visuals i'm good at art i understand but you know what i mean it's like

that's that's what makes uh the the evil shine um is the way in which they are pretending that it's not and and uh i have an example of that that i wanted to talk about uh today um from the uh friend of the pod comedian eliza schlesinger who, you know, I pointed out before a few times, just kind of the insane liberal Zionist type of, you know, mindset that she has in terms of like, she had some tweets and stuff earlier talking about, like, early in the conflict, being doing the general thing, I'm mad that Black Lives Matter, you know, we supported you. Why don't you support us now? shit like that. But, you know, recently she came out with this post talking about her feelings about the hostages coming home.

And it was just one of those posts that I was, it was just perfectly encapsulates everything that I find abhorrent about this type of person. So she wrote, we got three hostages back. I cried. Hold on. Is she American? Is she Jewish? She's an American, she's an American Jew, American Jewish comedian. I wasn't familiar with her, but apparently she has like millions of followers.

Oh, huge. She's huge. She's, you know, just a very famous comedian. And the thing about her is for me and this entire, you know, last 15 months is watching the amount of like American Jews who are also like blonde-haired and blue eye who are just like, would you hide me? And I'm just like, what are we doing here? What do we what are we doing?

Why are we pretending like anyone knows that you are Jewish by looking at you? Let's not do this, you know? Mostly because it's embarrassing. I find these people to be an embarrassment to the rest of us where you just are like, you're making us all look like whiny psychopaths. It's one thing to be a psychopath, but being a whiny one, that's just pathetic.

Okay. So we got three hostages back. I cried. I cried from relief and from anger. I started to make a video, but it felt wrong, filming myself crying. Well, it can be authentic. Automatically makes it about me. And I don't want that.

I want people to see that we are exchanging innocent children for actual terrorists. I want people to understand that the Holocaust was a genocide. And if this were a genocide, Israel wouldn't be medically trained. treating Palestinians and helping them while their own terrorist leaders steal money and aid from them. If this were truly about Palestinian lives and the world wouldn't justify rape as resistant. I love how she feels the need to like take the vowels out of Palestinian. There's no other word that she feels the need to abbreviate. It's not like this is a some old school Twitter post.

Like she's not concerned about character limit. No, yeah, right. This is like three slides long. This is a huge. So instead of Palestinian, it turns into Palestinian. You can figure, yeah, Palestinian. I mean, I-I-I-Thugnian, no vowel. I was trying, I thought that too at first, but then I was wondering if she's trying to avoid, like, censorship or? Well, then she would, then she would do the same thing with Jews. I mean, that's what, yeah, it is, I think it, I'm not sure.

They don't exist. You realize, it's probably believes they don't exist. I think it's that. I think it's closer to, I don't believe in Palestinians' existences of people. But it's, yeah, who knows? what it is. All I know is it sounds like she's saying it through gridded teeth. Palestinean-un-un-un.

Let's see. If this were truly about Palestinian lives and the world wouldn't justify rape as resistance, they wouldn't murder Jews the planet over if this were truly about peace. Like, where, when? Yeah, these are all like,

so, you know, first we get the, you know, the claims of sexual assault that have been thoroughly debunked to the point of You know, at this point, no one is, the only people bringing it up are the has bars. So it's only in these like closed circuit, you know, like communities of people who are just sharing the same bullshit stories over and over. Like, no one else is saying this. I mean, at this point, I think it was Dropside or maybe I forget who, you know, basically were, or no, it was like Ha Arets was able to report that

not a single person had come forward, you know, with the claims of assault. Because they're all dead. Because they're all dead, yes, of course. But yeah, just like people saying, her saying the world wouldn't justify rape as resistance. Like, this is completely bad faith reading. Wouldn't justify the, you know, Jews being murdered the planet over if this were about peace. I don't even know what we're talking about there. I want people in my city

and in my industry, my peers to realize they're being used that your bleeding hearts are being used against you to bring harm to an already incredibly marginalized small religion. Okay, I'm sorry. We might be small in number. Okay, there's a lot of things we are.

That's right. We might be resented. We might be misunderstood. We might be persecuted historically. In this moment, can you say Jews are margin? Are we on the margins of anything or are we fucking everywhere in everyone's face no matter what like Come on man it's you know who's marginalized there were no Muslim clerics at the inauguration last night yesterday you know there was a rabbi yeah and it fuck off it's this it's this like I'm sorry

but like this is just this complete fucking uh liberal thing where you just continue to bring up this narrative of the victimization and marginalization of Jews, especially in the paragraph about the entertainment industry. What the fuck are you talking about? And that's not me saying, like, the Jews run Hollywood and whatnot. It's me saying that the Jews in fucking general, in America, Jewish people are definitely represented in fucking media and fucking movies

like we are represent we the fact that you would pretend to complain about Jewish representation or Jewish marginalization within what Hollywood? I don't know if it's anti-Semitic to say the Jews run Hollywood okay I know it's not anti-Semitic

to say the Jews are fine in Hollywood yeah come on man it's so it's okay in Hollywood oh god yeah keeps going I want people to open their eyes, that if Jews are colonizers, where are our colonies? No one cares. We have one.

Yeah, we have one. And also, Jews, all Jews are not colonizers. That is not at all what anyone has been claiming. It is completely ridiculous. No one cares about the mass graves in Syria. No one cares about the jihadist fundamentalism, ravaging civilians in Iran, and, and Afghanistan. Women in Afghanistan aren't even allowed to hear each other speak because of radical Islam. Where are the feminists screaming about that? I think we're listening to you to do it. I want to

scream at people who made this their cause, made this cause their personality. People who want a pat on the back blindly support this terrorism with every bloody handpin. Jewish genocidal from the river to the C sticker slapped on your water bottles because Jewish lives are seen as less. These actions are the tools of the, quote, global antifada college students who are being brainwashed into cheerleading for a call for Jewish extermination. Again, as a way of bringing peace to the world. Three hostages over a year isn't nearly enough, and it won't be until these same terrorists come for you

for your non-Jewish family in your own city that we realized that this was never about Palestine. Just a beautiful rant here by Eliza, especially the part

where she's like, I'm crying. It's illegal to be mad at me. This idea that she is that she would take a moment to talk about her being sad about this, you know,

or being happy for the hostages who came home, but also taking the moment to remind people that Palestinians are not human beings, that they are all, you know, they're all terrorists, yes. Plottenance. Yeah, yeah, Polstenonans. Yeah, it is possible to take a non-insane moment of pause

at moments like this. Peter Barnard. It starts off like it's going to be there. wrote something quite decent i thought about you know what on this day for the and he's trying to reach out to zionists here he's trying to reach out to you know because he's always trying to build that bridge without without sacrificing his principles he said look today's a day we're as jews we can celebrate that some jews came home okay cool but he's also taking pause to recognize what it took to get here and the cause he's not going to let you look away from the and she just doesn't she doesn't

want there to be another side. She doesn't want there to be another side that is massive in its suffering that brought us to this moment. Yes. And she resents their humanity. Completely resents it. And this framing is total fucking bullshit. This framing of like, again, I would be, I have no issue with anyone who's celebrating who is crying over the return of any, of the Israeli hostages I understand that completely and there's no part of me that wishes

or has ever wished any harm upon anyone who was in captivity in Gaza, any Israeli I was never actively wishing harm upon any of them and I understand people celebrating when they're coming home.

The idea that you would then take that moment to just be like also these Palestinians that are being released are disgusting non-human vermin. These people are not even people. They're all terrorists. And they're coming for you in San Diego. Yes.

In the last paragraph. They're coming for you non-Jews in your cities in America. Yeah. And to me, I'm just like, this is such a disgusting form of liberalism, where you're hiding it in the sheen of like caring about things like, you know, problems in Afghanistan or you know when people talk about any other like any other conflict what about you talk about anything else just this this disgusting white feminist sort of thing where you just are completely self-involved to the point of you will use anyone else's blood in order

to mask the thing that you like you know it's like no there's other there's other death we can talk about. And we talk about some of the Palestinians who were returned. I want to talk real quick about one of them. This was a Palestinian journalist named Rula. What is that? Hasanayan. Don't know how to pronounce it. Never known. It was abducted from her home in Bethlehem by the occupation on March 19th, 2024 due to posts on social media in these posts that she was charged with, quote, incitement on social media, incitement. She was taken for nine months and separated from her baby girl who was still breastfeeding at the time. And she was just freed. And I just want to share, I just want to share a video of that. Just, yeah, I just want to

share a video of her being freed. This is who Eliza is lamenting is now no longer behind her. Yes. This is one of the people that she is lamenting as being returned home. This is her being reunited with her infant after nine months. I feel like...

I imagine the overwhelm in that child's system too. yeah what that's going to do the separation and then the sort of sudden children can't handle that level of yeah and it's just like just the way in which I find it immensely evil to in any way participate in the mass dehumanization of Palestinians the way that in just such a callous and careless fashion the way and you can just go like oh they're all terrorists this why i find the word to be so particularly disgusting it's a way of um just just turning human beings

into uh targets into people who are allowed to be killed non non human monsters and you know you see like something like that and you just uh you know you're just like You're reminded that this is all bullshit that these are human beings and it's just fucking revolting to me to turn anyone's like you're already, you're already talking about the joy you feel in the, in these, you know, three hostages coming back. There's no part of you that can look at the other people who have also been held in captivity for reasons that are not terrorism. I'm sorry, but like, you know, this, it just, it is, it's, it's like evil beyond words to me. Can you tell me, because I was a little behind doing these most recent comics. She did social media posts, and that's why they grabbed her.

In the West Bank, yeah. Yes. What would, she just like saying, A Laxa Flood or like things like that or, I mean? According to just what I've read. read about it. It was the occupation abducted journalist Rula, who is an editor for the Romala-based Watten Media Network and rated her home overnight on March 19th. She was charged for, quote, incitement on social media. Yeah, I mean... Incitement could mean saying there's too many civilians dying in Gaza. Yeah. And also,

like, Ben Kvier and Smotris do that every hour. Yes. Yes. I mean, we're talking about incitement. Like, do you want to compare incitements? Yeah, exactly. And what Ben Gavir and Smotrich and all of these, you know, Kineset psychopaths and cabinet psychopaths are doing is straight up textbook definition incitement. The things that they were calling incitement in the West Bank were things like, oh, you know, Israel is doing a genocide. Like, but the incitement wasn't Israeli cabinet members going like we should genocide

Yeah and then passing rifles out to settlers That's not incitement Yeah Saying you are being genocided Is incitement I mean just like completely Disgusting

I mean completely insane Speaking of dehumanizing The victims Do we have that Ellie comic With the Barry Weiss quote in it with the Palestinian mother grieving her. Yeah, there we go.

So can you, can you, this one really stood out to me in the book, Ellie. Can you talk to us about it? Just to sort of describe what we're looking at and read us the caption and tell us where that came from and what the whole idea was. This was during another, you know, I don't even like the term flare up. I mean, it was another Israel assault, annihilation, annihilative assault on Gaza in 2022 was that one? I need to like look it up here. 2021. Sorry, I'm just looking it up.

Oh, good. Yeah, Gazza. Yeah, 2021. So, this is just a picture of destruction, which, you know, looks very familiar to anyone before or after that period today as well, of course. And Barry Weiss wrote just like a textbook Zionist

defense. of what was happening after I wrote down the exact details of I don't remember that particular atrocity in this case I think there are eight babies that were killed in a single family and what and you know

and it came out after another another several you know babies were killed of another family and you know it was just like it was sort of horrible period she wrote this piece starting off talking about her, you know, fertility treatments, which was just interesting because...

Yeah, I'm writing this from my fertility clinic. Yeah. It's like the absolute lack of self-awareness when you're calling for extermination while documenting your own, you know, fertility stuff. Yeah. Is just obscene. But anyway, this is a direct quote from her. And, you know, I was...

It was easy to go after... very west because she just speaks you know i think she's a disciple of michael oren who also speaks like this um you know these this very very um clueless um sort of you know jewish nationalists borderline fascistic um rationalizations of um extermination for the sake of sovereignty they call it right um so yeah so the actual quote is i'm consoled i have the the the mother saying this to her. I mean, I don't know if you're going to put it on the screen, but to the babies who are, you know, in, you know, body bags.

So I'm consoled knowing you were each an unavoidable burden of political power of Zionism's dream turned into the reality of self-determination. The I'm consoled part, I don't think, I don't think that was from the original. But, I mean, it was in her substack. All the other words are from her substack, I mean, direct quotes saying, yeah, sure, it sucks that people died, but this is, you know, the great thing is, now we are on the world stage and this is this is sovereignty and we're able to you know this is this is reality as opposed to just the dream like um it was sickening and actually um i wrote in it um a genocide

scholar said this is the language of genocide right on the next page um she described the rhetoric as the common thread that's been used to justify concentration camps around the globe for over a century it invites genocide this is two years before what's happened uh no to 2021 so three years before this happened of this the current wave happened um you know it's uh i mean you know i gave like a very detailed background of it so i'm just trying to refresh my memory right now um yeah so she wrote this is an unspeakable tragedy regarding uh the killing of noncombatants including children this is an unspeakable tragedy it is also one of the unavoidable burdens of political power of zionism's dream turned into the reality of self-determination i like that she used the word burdens

yeah yeah yeah Jewish woman's burden yeah I mean just this you know this idea of like you know the we have to uh in order to make the uh Israel omelet we're gonna have to break other people's eggs and it's just like uh it's I think a lot of a lot of I don't want to say liberal because I mean you know it's very wise right but a lot of these like uh types of Zionists you know the non like

openly psychopathic type you know like Barry Weiss who was couches everything and sort of like this earnest like

human like whatever logical and you know yeah there's the the reserving of like cold

pragmatic you know political strategies you know being it's like you're allowed to be cold about the deaths of certain people

it's you're allowed to be like well this is a part of a greater good you know when it comes to the Palestinians you're allowed to completely dehumanize them in this type of way you know you you can

you can pick and choose when you are allowed to show empathy and when and when that empathy would have a greater impact being used for us you know it's just it's just particularly gross and like their deaths uh give us the three dimensionality of statehood you know of the fullness the fullness that jews never experienced the diaspora but now with our own state and sovereignty we have this responsibility and these challenges and these burdens yeah i don't think we're in kreco anymore Toto. I think this is, this is, we're on a real adventure now.

Yeah. Speaking of real adventures, we got to take a real break. I don't know. I did my best with that segue. So we are going to take a quick commercial break. Everyone, please stick around. Grab yourself a soda or some wine and we'll be right back. And we're back. This Bad As Barra World Memorial Podcast. I'm Matt Leap. I'm wearing my Netflix shirt. I just realized this whole time.

We got this Netflix logo just in the... I was wondering, you have it like a special coming out? No. My brother-in-law is a film editor. So he works at multiple places and they gave him a free Netflix. I don't know if it was free. It was like a present. I'm going to rock my Hulu onesie.

Yeah, no, I mean, I just really like streaming services, you guys. I just love that I can just stream stuff and just stay at home and watch it until I die. We're here with Ellie Valley, and we are going to move on to a subject that is current. Like I said, I was watching the inauguration. For the most part, it was all just a big bummer. and then Elon Musk showed up and just he just with his full heart he wanted to thank the crowd

before that, before that during the inauguration I don't know if we have it, but the shots of him and Baron Trump next to each other. Oh God, yeah. There was something I always feel for Baron Trump. I always feel The two forms of Asperger's Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You have two autistic wolves

within you, which will you feed? Barron looked almost soulful, you know? I know in comparison. In comparison, and meanwhile, Elon's in the background going, yeah, the dude is just, he is non-stop. Use his face or his body

in anything but a completely uncoordinated, awkward and he's always trying to do a meme. He's always trying to be always trying to do a meme and uh and yeah it is like just just watching him in general is always a struggle because it's uh it's painful it is painful i've never seen physical reaction to watch it does i i i watch him and i get uncomfortable for him because he's so he's and he's always been so uncomfortable in his own skin uh and like but man what uh watching him give his speech. I didn't see much of

the speech he was given. But I did catch the end of this speech in which he thanks the crowd with all of his heart and here's a video of it. He hasn't seen it. And he says, thank you. So he does what...

Twice. What very much is unmistakably a Sig Heil? Come on man, it's a Roman salute. It's a Roman salute. That's right. It's simple.

it's some kind of awkward attempt at some kind of imperial flex. Like I am now your God-King Emperor. I didn't immediately go to Siegheil. I went to, it's in, I went to, it's in the world of Seag Heil, but I didn't necessarily go, oh, you see, he's a Nazi.

That is only a Seagile. I mean, this is the thing. I've seen, there's plenty of people who can be caught out in a moment of hand straight out thing, Right? And people take a picture and they go like, look, they're a Nazi. Right, I'm like Laura Ingram, I felt that was, yeah, maybe a little bit. Yeah, Laura Ingram had one famously where she just like stretching it, so to speak.

Yeah, and for me, I was just like, you know, Laura Ingraham is harder to give the benefit of the doubt. But I've always in general been like, listen, the Sig Heil is two movements, not just one. It's you start here and then you go here. Yeah, everyone knows that. Yeah. You know, you watch American History X once. And he wasn't like pulling my heart to you. No, he wasn't throwing his heart out.

Yeah, yeah. Come on. Yeah, he was this. Yeah. Like, I mean, come on. And he does it twice. Yeah. Again, for those in the back who didn't see.

Yeah. I mean, just, come on. Look at it. Boom. Bam. That's two movements. That's two movements. Yeah.

And I think, okay. What do you think his rationale was for that? It's an epic troll. That's what he's doing. Do you think so? Okay. I mean, I can see that. My view was, I mean, just initial reaction, was that he does it a lot in the mirror at home.

And he's so uncontrolled in terms of like how to behave, like not because he's like such a great personality, but because he doesn't know how to use his own fucking body. Right. And he was so, he was basking so much in the attention, the adulation, that he just lost it. And he started doing what he does at home. Yes. To the crowd because he, you know, and it was probably on some. upper whatever the fuck he yeah yeah yeah so that probably influenced it too that's my

no he was it was like it could have been a troll no i mean i i i think you it's very possible you're right uh it was whether it was he held he hiled the quiet part out loud yeah he yeah exactly um i i really do think that like whether or not he was doing it um to troll uh or doing it because in a fit of Howard Dean-like excitement, he just went, Biyah! Right, right. He went, he went SIGBiyah! But, like, with him in general, I mean,

despite, you know, whether or not he's knowingly or unknowingly Sikh highly, he is, his entire ideology is Nazi. He's multiple times has, you know, made it, plain that he believes in things like, in fact, he was forced at one point to go to Auschwitz because he got in trouble for agreeing with a poster who said that Jews essentially want to start race wars against the whites. Didn't Ben Shapiro escort him? Yes, and Ben Shapiro took him to Auschwitz, and people are using the fact that he went

to Auschwitz with Ben Shapiro as. an example of why he isn't a Nazi. Are they doing that today? I missed that. Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's one of many different reactions to it. Who died in the gas chambers there are somewhere going, geez, that's a bit of a harsh punishment.

But he also outlawed the use of the phrase from the river to the sea on Twitter after one of his earlier Nazi outbursts. Right. Like, you know, the ADL got him to do that. 100%. He has a documented history of, you know, agreeing with Nazi posts where he's just like, yeah, amplifying Nazi posts. And then when he's in any way been called out for it, doing Zionism, doing like that his parents were members of the Canadian Nazi party at some point. Wait, who's? Elon Musk's parents.

Oh, I'd like to know more about that. Well, I know that his father went on a podcast and said that Elon's grandparents on his mother's side were pro-Nazi. Maybe it was his grandparents, sorry. Yeah, and they moved to South Africa for apartheid. They liked it. But yeah, I mean, he has history of getting cover and covering his. his anti-Semitism through being pro-Israel. It is something he's done a thousand times over.

And the funniest thing about this to me is not that Elon, you know, did the epic troll, which is, you know, is it really a troll if you're actually a Nazi? It's not. You're just a Nazi. But the funniest part about it has been the people who are running cover for him. The ADL statement on this is so amazing. I found a very reassuring person. ADL says, this is a delicate moment.

It's a new day, and yet so many are an edge. Our politics are inflamed, and social media only adds that anxiety. Our politics and our hemorrhoids. Yes, our hemorrhoids are inflamed. It seems that Elon Musk made an awkward gesture in a moment of enthusiasm, not a Nazi salute, but again, we appreciate that people are on edge. In this moment, all sides should give one another a bit of grace, perhaps even the benefit

of the doubt and take a breath. This is a new beginning. Let's hope for healing and work towards unity in the months and years ahead. You gotta love it. Grace, humility, and the benefit of the doubt. All stock in trade

of anti-defamation league. There's one thing they love. It's better to the doubt and grace. These are people who will literally like fucking call out the weather channel for having an ad where a woman is wearing a kaffia. Ellie, you have a new piece right just about this, don't you?

Yeah, that's right. It came out right before we started recording it. So I'm like a little distracted thinking, yeah, because this is the day after that we're recording it. Right. There is Nazi salute and the ADL's racing to give him cover. Yes, and this is your cartoon. And it's that is Hitler and Jonathan Greenblatt,

a head of the ADL next to him with his arm around Hitler saying it seems that Adolf made an awkward gesture in a moment of enthusiasm but he said quote but he never said quote free Palestine so let's all take a deep breath just

perfect you know look you can laugh at the ADL all you want but it wasn't just the ADL okay Batya Anger Sargon has assured us that Elon is a friend to the Jews. That's right. Batya writes, as a person with a strong track record,

questionable, by the way. Yeah, of criticizing Elon Musk, I feel extremely confident asserting that this was not a Nazi salute. Elon Musk is a friend to the Jews. This is a man with with Asperger's exuberantly throwing his heart to the crowd. We don't need to invent outrage. There's this. I mean, but, but, just of the history, you know about inventing outrage that she was one of the leaders of the Ilhan Omar farce. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. The puff daddy farce. Yes. Yes. Like, there's nothing that Batya loves more than inventing outrage for anyone who shows a modicum of support for Palestinian people. If they are in Congress, especially

if they are a brown person, a black person, she loves it. She went after Ilhan, she's been going after Ilhan since the beginning. She used to be the editor of the forward. Now she's like, I don't know, the... Well, I mean, not the editor, but the opinion editor.

Oh, opinion editor of the forward. She's at Newsweek, I think. Yeah, now she's at New Week. Yeah. They ran a fundraising thing after the Ilhan Omar spectacle they created and they confused her with Rashida Slade because they're both... Yeah. Yeah, well, yeah, no. Same same. You know?

By the way, producer Adam, I saw your Kairon about Sargonne being a Hobbit-ass name, and I am reporting you to former guest in front of the show, Anthony Sargon. That's right. How dare you? Lump all Sargon's in. Yes, and it's not a Hobbit-ass name, all right? It's a J.K. Rowling-ass name. But, yeah, no, Brianna Wu just has my favorite.

I like this one. You know what? Other people can decide if it's a Nazi salute. I'm not getting involved. I don't even understand that. That is because she, this is something in which she literally cannot go against the grain here. Because the grain of, at this point, I mean, at this point, she is firmly planted as a Hezbarist. Like, all of her support online is from Israel, pro-Israel accounts.

And she knows she just saw a Nazi salute. Okay, okay. She's just like, but. the people who I'm relying on for a fan base at this point are saying it's not okay okay I'm just gonna opt out of it it's I see no shame from her before so I was actually surprised that she didn't say that is clearly not a Nazi salute yeah no yeah true true but I I think at this point it's just cowardice I think it's just transparent perfect transparent absolute cowardice and I love that for her she you look good in it girl keep keep on that

coward coat. Yeah, it is, it's just wild to, you know, see the ADL. I mean, you talked about it earlier, running cover for, for any right-wing anti-Semite who slips up and lets it be known that they enjoy doing a Nazi salute in the mirror. So you've been doing art about that topic for years. Wait, can I say something? I used to go after Abe Foxman all the time, Diaspora Boy has a lot of comics. He's actually the one who got me off the forward, like, you know, threatening to withhold or withholding ads after I did a comic fiercely, you know,

focusing on him as an anti-Semite for going after anti-Zionist Jews. He came out against Greenblatt yesterday without fully doing it. Abe Foxman did it? Look it up. Look it up. Yeah, yeah. He didn't actually name names. He, like, said in like, sort of the passive voice or something.

But he, yeah. he um what is he all right i'm sorry i need to find it um i'm afraid of actually closing this tab though so are you guys wait wait hold on Elon Musk uh maybe the world's richest man but that does not excuse his uh thanking uh the trump supporters with a heil hits hit hitler nazi salute uh in addition to supporting germany's neo nazi party in the next election yeah that's that's like uh really questioning oh i'm sorry yeah that's like questioning greenblatt who who who you know so um and he's like him i don't know if he has any position there at all anymore if he's emeritus or what but i mean that's like that was a big step he should have gone further of course

but it's just like interesting how like you know he was like the villain of um diastro boy in many ways and um and now you know greenblatt has exceeded him it's yeah greenblatt really um up the ante when it came to the adel because yes like the abe foxman was the villain for a long time because um abe foxman was clearly utilizing his role to kind of turn the ADL more and more into, like, just a Zionist institution. Yes. And caught on tape, you know, talking about the...

Admitting it. Yes. I mean, like, really just like... He gave a really candid interview to the Israelism directors. I mean, he's in... Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah. Also...

Yeah. Our plan is to indoctrinate Jewish youth with... Yeah. And prior to that, like maybe 10 years ago, there was another film called defamation, which I recommend You look up. I've seen it. Finglesean is in it, yeah. Yeah, but it has a lot of, a lot of, a lot of, a foxman.

Yeah, and Foxman is, you know, I think. Saying things that you're not, like, awkward, yeah. It's mine is really a filmmaker, isn't it? Yes, yes, Foreman, maybe, I forget the name. Ari Foreman, I forget. Very good. Yeah, yeah, I remember, I remember enjoying it, especially the Abe Foxman stuff, because Abe Foxman was just like, I mean, he wasn't going as far as saying,

like, oh, we'd just make up some stuff, but he was essentially, he was saying we want them to think we control everything because that gives us more. I mean, don't quote me on that. Yeah, yeah. I'm trying to remember. I saw years ago, but, but something along those lines, it was like, what the fuck? Yeah. And even the Israeli filmmaker was like, wait, what? And the crazy thing is that Greenblad is just, he's so much worse. I mean, you know what? I honestly thought when he first, he was like a water bottle salesman or something. or Obama social entrepreneur bullshit early on. So I'm like, no, maybe

he's like new generation, but I think he quickly saw which way the wind blows, meaning donor, you know, support and all that. And, you know, he makes good, good money doing what he's doing. So, you know, I don't know if he's a sellout or he's a

he's an ideologue, but the end result is a disaster. Yeah. He seems pretty ideologically. Yeah, yeah. I was surprised. I actually, I thought maybe when he first came in, After Voxman, there was, you know, fresh air, new blood, millennial, or whatever the hell he is. But no, it didn't work out. No, instead he has, you know, been on the front lines of making sure that, you know, that when it comes to what kind of anti-Semitism is going to be prosecuted or, you know, amped, you know, called out, it's going to be anti-Zionism.

It's going to be anything anti-Israel. And anything, yeah. Sorry, sorry. I didn't mean to Trump. But I just remembered one of his first acts or early on was he stopped positioned the ADL against acknowledging the Armenian genocide. And so that's what made me think, oh, he's taking a different route from Foxwood. Right.

You know, because the entire thing about that was, I mean, maybe it was because relations with Turkey soured a bit. So it wasn't in Israel's interest anymore to, you know, to be on Turkey. his good side. But I was hopeful after that, but it quickly got shot down. Yeah. No, he's really terrible. I mean, he's really, and I said this before, but, you know, at this point, it's pretty obvious that, you know, the Trump administration could round up every American Jew and put them in a train at gunpoint. And the ADL would be like, as long as those trains are going to Israel, we're kind of cool with this. In fact, we prefer this, you know?

Like, this is never been about the protection of Jews in America. It's, this is about strengthening the Zionist project. And nothing makes it more clear than when someone does a Nazi salute, whether it's in a fit of passion or not, you know, or they're doing a troll. Or they, whatever. It's just like, you would have called this out if it were anyone else. It was anyone else, you'd be like, that's disgusting. Yeah.

And instead, they don't give a shit because they are sucking up to power because that power is pro-Israel. And, you know, in terms of the rest of the day, you know, the inauguration, I think one of the most disheartening things, I mean, shouldn't be disheartening, but it was.

was watching Donald Trump signing executive orders, and one of them, he is asked questions about Gaza. Yeah. And I have that right here. Gaza, I looked at a picture of Gaza, Gaza is like a massive demolition site. That place is, it's really got to be rebuilt in a different way. Do you meant to help him rebuilding Gaza? My mind.

you know Gaza's interesting it's a phenomenal location on the sea best weather you know everything's good it's like some beautiful things could be done with it but it's very interesting but some fantastic things could be done with Gaza so for those you don't know uh Jared Kushner Trump's son-in-law has gone on record as saying that part of, you know, one of the things they want to do is develop in Gaza. What they want to do is start building resorts. Resorts. And yeah, I mean, they've been pretty open about the ethnic cleansing of Gaza being necessary for the future annexation of it into Israel.

And I think it's just clear that that's, you know, what's going to happen. Trump is, yeah, mixed use with Verizon Wireless Jamba Juice buildings. Yeah, exactly. It's just clear that, like, you know, any talk of this like ceasefire, you know, being anything other than just a temporary hostage exchange is, you know, It's not the case. And, of course, if we had journalists in this world, you know, on the one hand, the fact that Trump will let reporters hang out with them while he pontificates for an hour, in a way, it's a step up on Joe Biden, who hit himself away off from the world for four years and never spoke to reporters because he couldn't finish a sentence. Right.

Reporters let Trump finish too many sentences without interrupting. I mean, he says it looks like one big demolition site. Any reporter worth their salt would say, how did it get that way? you don't let him just keep eliding just easily you know pivoting these big long ski turns he does in his conversation no like pinpoint him on that one thing how did it get that way are we going to keep supplying the means to make it that way who gets to go back yeah yeah and and the truth of it is is they are they are going to keep

supplying the means for it in fact unbanned the bombs yeah celebrated by a star democrat fucking John Fetterman he put out this tweet here Finding Common Ground in D.C. with an Israeli flag and he's got a screen cap of a Reuters article Trump to lift pause on 2,000 pound bomb supply to Israel Walla News reports.

Walla News being an Israeli right-wing news site with an Arabic slang name. Yeah, of course. But yeah, it's just, like, you know, uh, Trump is, is not, uh, is not like pro-Palestinian. And not that anyone actually ever thinks that, but you just occasionally get these, um, you know, people who, uh, claim to be pro-Palestinian and talk about how they like, you know, uh, you know, give, giving Trump like, uh, the cover this idea that, no,

he is secretly pro-Palestinian. You're fucking, you're out of your goddamn mind. In no universe is he pro-Palestinian. Best case scenario, he's too chaotic to be consistently pro-Israel. Best-case scenario, his unpredictability and his pettiness and his desire to be in charge will make him and Netanyahu, you know, adversaries. And best-case scenarios, him sending us a rabid Zionist like Steve Whitkoff to Israel

to say, I don't give a fuck about your Shabbat. You're meeting with me and you're ending this thing. That's the kind of thing we need to be hoping for, but it's got nothing to do with principles. The only exciting thing about the executive orders that I got excited about was when he was describing them in the inauguration speech, and he was talking about renaming the Gulf of Mexico

or the Gulf of America, which is just genius. In that sentence, he spoke about the United States. And I thought, by law, if you're going to rename the Gulf of Mexico, no Gulf of America with an executive order, then everything you said as part of that statement should go with it. So I think that by executive order now, we have to call it the United States.

And I really like that. Let's call it the United States of America. I'm happy changing the name of whatever Gulf or whatever country, United States, Gulf of America. You know, I enjoy the meaningless nationalism. and it does nothing and then it's just it's the rest of it

it's all the other shit where I'm just like God damn it you know this is a this is a thing with Trump you know people want to give him the benefit of the doubt because it's like he like you said he may you know just be self-interested enough and stupid enough and you know whatever

spiteful enough to you know he's a wild card but the truth of it is is half the time he's just going to sign shit that um he's not that wild it's the people around him are are giving you know they're they're they all tell rubio just got confirmed 90 to zero in the fucking senate yeah yeah so thanks perney yeah yeah it is uh it is i mean you just at this point you know what is what else is there to say it's just like uh do we do we have any opposition well so maybe this leads us to a final question for

today, Ellie, you know, I think we're asking ourselves what this podcast is going to look like going forward. How are we going to do what we do? Are we going to stay on some ground of buoyancy enough to do satire and, you know, our mix of satire and outrage? Your political art isn't, isn't, it doesn't, it doesn't, it seems to me that you will, you let yourself be very, very, very sincere when you need to be. You're not hiding behind a cloak of irony all the time. Sometimes there's irony, but there's a lot of genuine pain and emotion in it too. What do you anticipate your approach is going to need to be going forward into this administration? Or do you just not, you don't make that decision in advance. You just respond to what comes. Yeah. I'm not like

making an overarching because we don't fully know what's going to happen. Um, but as I said in the beginning, um, when I like interrupted him, like, uh, I wanted to talk during your, uh, prelude. Um, you know, um, uh, I just don't want to draw Trump because it's like, I, first of all, I've said it all. You know, you can't, I can't go any further from what I've said. So I don't want to repeat myself. And I don't want to be like a grifter who's like, you know, doing these things for, you know, resistance, whatever. Um, so I've said what I need to say. And maybe I will draw him again. I don't want to say never, but, um, I don't have any real need to draw him now because, um, this is a monstrosity that I've already captured. But there are areas where we can move the needle or pressure points are the abomination of the Democratic Party that allow this to happen, that ushered in essentially, in my opinion, by campaigning with Cheney's and the et cetera, all that stuff. Centrists, because I, you know, centrists are, you know, scratch the centrist, fascist bleeds, that kind of thing. I mean, you know, they are handmaid into fascism. And I feel like they are like the influence points that is keeping an opposition party, an actual opposition party with actual teeth from taking formation,

whether it's within the Democratic Party or elsewhere. And so I think they deserve our entire reprobation. So that is where, you know, I mean, first of all, say never and second will i don't know what's going to happen i mean if if there's some kind of new atrocity about to happen of course i'm going to probably have to draw that but but aside from developing events um my passions currently are you know aside from you know essay comics and the like are with those who allowed this monster to read to resume uh office yeah yeah i feel you i'm right there with you. It is

those who didn't listen to the advice of the Bad Hasbara podcast which said multiple times... Do you know that not a single elected Democrat is a member of our Patreon? Yeah. Did you know that? Oh, no, I did not know that. No, yes. We checked.

Wait, wait. Oh, sorry. We read through the Patreon and not one of them is in the Senate. Not one of them is the president. It's fucking bullshit. I mean, I will say like, when I hear Trump saying things, it's like, it's expected and nauseating and repulsive. But then when I hear Schumer saying things that we're going to work with him, it is much more offensive to me.

You know, partly because he's a New York senator. And, you know, I mean, we should be the heart of some kind of opposition. And instead, we get someone who's trying to make deals with Trump, that kind of thing. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's what we see over and over. And it really lets you know that calling someone a fascist and then not believing it is just particularly disgusting to me. But yeah, hey, you know who's not a fascist? There's all of you out there who listen to this podcast and you, Ellie Valley. Thank you so much for coming on and talking with us about Israel and stuff. Thank you. Thanks for having me. It was very thoughtful conversation. I appreciate it. Of course. Where can people find

your work? Just my name it, Twitter, Blue Sky, Instagram, and the new book. You know, put it up to the camera. Yeah, the Museum of Degenerates is out. Is it out right? It's out right now. Well, the official publication date is February 11th, but you can buy it straight from the publisher, which they prefer. Or books, baby. Or books, yeah. And we will have a link to that in the description, both on YouTube and in the podcast app.

So please purchase that, pre-order it, and do it now. Ellie Valley, it's a bit of pleasure. Thank you. Patreon.com slash bad hasbarra. Please join badhasbar at gmail.com for your questions, your comments, your concerns. Oh, also you have a Patreon. Is that right? Thank you.

Yes. Thanks, Matt. Yes, I have a Patreon as well. My name, you know, I guess patreon.com slash Ellie Valley. Yes. And we'll also post that into the description on the podcast app and on the YouTube. Thank you so much, Ellie Valley. We love to have it. Thank you. Thank you. Of course. Patreon.com slash Bad Hasbarra. Join up. Get those bonus episodes. Support us. We love you. And email us, questions, comments, concerns.

Abed Hasbara at gmail.com. All right, everyone. Thanks again so much for listening. And until next time, from the river to the sea. It's not Eli Valet. It's Ellie Vallee. Wow. Wow.

You just riff right now? Is that a new thing? That was amazing. Jumping jacks was us. Push-ups was us. Godmaga us. All karate us. We're making Molly us, Michael Jackson us, Yamaha keyboards, us,

Georgia makes on us, Andor was us, Keith Ledger Joker us, endless bread success, Happy Meals was us, McDonald's was us, being happy us, Bequerm yoga us, eating food, us, breeding air, us, drinking water us. We invented all that shit. Yeah! ... Yeah! ...

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