Bad Hasbara - The World's Most Moral Podcast - Bad Hasbara 90: No Other Discourse, with Simone Zimmerman

Episode Date: March 6, 2025

Matt and Daniel are joined by friend of the pod Simone Zimmerman to ponder the No Other Land Oscar win, revel in pettiness toward Oscars prudism, and tease out liberal zionists’ ideological hair-splitting.Matt and Francesca will be at the Sacramento Punch Line on March 16th! Buy tickets now! https://livemu.sc/4jS1qKf Come see Matt Lieb and Francesca Fiorentini do stand up at Cobbs Comedy Club in San Francisco on May 7th. Tickets here: https://www.livenation.com/event/G5vYZb0MwzkkR/francesca-fiorentini-and-matt-liebPlease donate to Mercy Corps: https://www.mercycorps.org/Find Simone online at https://x.com/simonerzim or https://www.instagram.com/simonerzimSubscribe to the Patreon https://www.patreon.com/badhasbaraSubscribe/listen to Bad Hasbara wherever you get your podcasts.Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/5RDvo87OzNLA78UH82MI55Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bad-hasbara-the-worlds-most-moral-podcast/id1721813926Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/bad-hasbara/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Moshwam ha bitch, a rib and poker toad. We invented the terry tomato and weighs USB drives and behind all. Israeli salad, oozy, stents, and javas orange crows. Micro chips is us. iPhone cameras us. Taco salads us. Pothalas. All of garden us.

Life costs for us. Zabrahamas. As far as us. Hello, everybody, and welcome to Bad Hasbara. The world's most moral podcast. Mm-hmm. My name is Matt Lieb. I will be your host for this podcast.

And I'm the other guy who does the same thing, but from a different coast. That's right. The coast with the most, I say, what? Uh, shout out to everyone out there on the internet. Whether you're listening or watching, we thank you. on YouTube, subscribe. If you're on one of the podcast apps, subscribe. Either way, you're awesome and we love you. If you are watching right now, you may notice that I have someone sitting next to me, which kind of ruins the whole thing where I spend, what is it, 10 minutes with Daniel just talking

about nothing while our guest waits at the bottom of the screen in another room. No, instead, she's right next to me so I'm just going to introduce her straight away it's the world's most moral guest friend of the pod coolest person I know Simone Zimmerman is here hey I just have to say that song goes so hard go so really harder than it needs to yeah you know I think I I kind of peaked with the song like this podcast opens really strong and then we start talking and then it really just goes to shit the minute we stop rapping not to be really really earnest with you guys though but I actually have done a couple of talks around the country recently where like random people come up to me and ask me if I listen to this podcast what and tell me how much they love it and how

much it makes them feel less alone and less insane so well I think we're going to keep going hard that makes me feel good I I love that shout out to people listening who I have told me that recently that's so sweet it's very nice although you know what you should say is like I've been on do you listen to it and then just be like I'm better than you make them I'm earnest so I don't do that you might do that I love making people feel small it is my favorite thing mostly just through my height I'm a very nice person but I do like to stand next to people like right next to them so that they can just feel the height radiating off of my body I'm actually a little I'm actually a little nervous guys because why well I

started out in the chair that Simone is currently sitting in and look what happened. You took me aboard as your co-host pretty soon afterwards. And last time you had a guest in there in person, she's already your wife. She was my wife. That's how she became my wife. I'm starting to feel a little bit, a little bit like my position might be a little precarious. Oh man, you're going to start holding signs that say Jews will not replace us, but just talking about specifically Simone. Don't worry. That Jew will not Replace this Jew. Singular Jew will not replace. Not all.

But you know what? If she does, it's well deserved. Listen, no comment. I cannot disclose my plans. Yeah, we don't know what she's. She's got some of that trickery up her sleeve. We don't know what kind of tricks. Simone, thank you for.

I mean, I am a Jew after also. That's what. I do have to bring my tricks with me. I was heavily implying it. I'm glad you said it out loud. That's what kind of podcast this is. Uh, shout out to the ADL for sponsoring this podcast. Um, you notice how their, their, uh, their new slogan is, it's not even never again is now. It's just never is now. Never is now. That's it.

They got rid of again. Yeah. It's like, if not now, then never. If not now, then never. That's beautiful. I love it. I love it. They just took on. They're not going to solve anti-Semitism. That's the point. Yeah. Never is. Yeah. He's giving them your money and maybe one day. Yeah. It's, it's beautiful. a very useful thing to do to give your money, that organization that is going to continue spreading anti-Semitism. No,

not never, is not now ever. Dude. That sentence gave me a stroke, Adam. Shout out to producer Adam 11th giving Matt strokes. Many strokes. Before we go on, I do want to say, please, if you

are in Sacramento, come out to the Sacramento punchline, Sunday, March 16th at 7 p.m. My wife and I, Francesca Fiorentini, will be at that comedy club, co-headlining. And if you're like, hey, that's too far away from me, but I'm in San Francisco, come to Cobbs. May 7th, Francesca and I are also co-headlining there. Ticket link in bio. And finally, the sponsor, today's episode is brought to you by Mercy Corps.

Core. Core. I like Corpse. Mercy Corps. Mercy corpse. That's what we call Jesus. Yeah. The most famous Mercy Corps. For more than three decades, Mercy Corps has worked in the West Bank in Gaza, meeting critical humanitarian needs. Their programs help communities cope with crisis, supporting marginalized and vulnerable youth and increasing economic opportunities. You can donate right now to mercycore.org. That's M-E-R-C-O-R-C-O-P-S.org.org. That's M-E-R-C-Y-C-O-P-S-O-R-P-S dot org. Do it. And then also Patreon.com slash badassbara if you want to get extra episodes.

Daniel, what's the spin? I got some in-memorium-related spins. Who died? We lost Roberta Flack recently. Oh, who's that? She of, you know, killing me softly and I will survive too, right? No, that was Glory Gainer. killing me softly

and she did a lot of work with Donnie Hathaway, sorry wonderful singer-songwriter and all that so I got her here R-R-I-B Angie Stone, another R&B legend recently does she has a couple of

co-writes on this DeAngelo album. Oh shit, DeAngelo! To be clear, DeAngelo, still alive, but Angie Stone, rest of peace. Yeah, I love DeAngelo. I like that untitled music video where he shows his what do you call him cum gutters or whatever like the de angelo's you know those

yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it's just like right down to where the groin is and then but then related to that on a later album he has a great lyric what is it exactly he says something about if if you're asking about what shape I'm in I hope it ain't my abdomen you're referring to oh man so he's calling out people like you that objectifying him oh man I feel I'm sorry I'm sorry Sorry, DeAngelo.

That's all right. How does it feel? All right, I'm sorry. Was the name George Lowe, the voice of space ghost, coast to coast on Adult Swim, just died? Just died. And this album, Danger Doom, Danger Mouse and MF Doom is full of guest appearances by Adult Swim voice performers, including him. Oh. You know, the Aquitaine Hunger Force guys and him anyway.

So shout out to him. And then Gene Hackman. And I'm like, I don't have any of. Gene Hackman's albums, but I do have, I do have, no he did not, I do have Metallica's album that has unforgiven on it. Oh, and he was in that. He was in the movie, Unforgiven, no relation. And then also I remembered that Method Man on a verse from this Capadonna album has a line, Night Vision Unseen like Gene when I hack men, they're unforgiven. So, there you go. A bit of a stretch, but I love it. A bunch of rests in pieces there. So that's what the spin,

is and now finally it is time to start the podcast. Simone Zimmerman is here just wonderful to have you in studio. What are you doing here in sunny Los Angeles? What are you doing in Matt's house? Yeah, why are you in my house?

Why are you here? It's my mom's birthday this weekend. Aw. Came to hang. I love that. Yeah. You love your mom? I do.

That's actually a very normal reason to go back to L.A. Totally. Not because it's like pilot season And then you're just like, oh, I'm up for the sitcom role. Yes, despite what many of the haters might think. I do love my mom and we do celebrate her birthday together. That's right.

I'm sure the haters, like, number one thing they say to you is your mom must be so ashamed of you. Yeah. Oh, well, she's not, I think, right? Mostly not. Hell yeah, mostly not. That's as good as you're going to get with most, you know, relationships with mothers. Definitely. Yeah.

Daniel, what does your mother think about you? Oh, she loves him. Shout out to Daniel's mom. Yeah, my mom's a big fan of me. Really? Yeah. Despite everything. Well, she saw this.

Not despite everything, because of everything. Because of everything. Wow, it's a tolerant mom. Where were we? Oh, yeah. You were talking about my mother. That's right. I was talking about your mother.

I hung out with Daniel's mom, so I can also just attest that she's extremely cool and onside. Yeah, because you did a bunch of Israelism events with my dad in Vancouver, right? Yeah, shout out to the entire Matte family. Nice. I'd say that the Matte family likes you, Matt. They love Simone. Oh, they only just like me. I'm here to replace everybody today.

This fucking sucks. Here's the thing. I feel like I've been waiting for a long time to someday meet the rest of Daniel's family. I've met Aaron. We did Hanukkah together. Yeah, the night I met you, Aaron. was also there. That's right. And then, um, you know, I'm still, you know, waiting on a phone call back from, uh, your father, the good Dr. Cabor. Uh, and, you know, meanwhile, you have a sister,

you have a mother. Why don't they? What, you've met all of them? You've met all of them. That's not fair. What do they think? Like, part of me, when I imagine, like, Daniel's, like, family, uh, get-togethers and stuff. At some point, someone's going to be like, so, uh, you're still doing your, your little, your little podcast. My dad listens to every episode. I wouldn't say religiously, but reliably. I'm, I get more episodes than not. I get a message from him being like, that was a great guest, or I couldn't believe that article that you guys read out loud, or that was a hilarious joke that you were Matt made. Like, your dad listens. See that? He does. Without me even, without me even prompting him. He must be a YouTube subscriber.

Now I'm nervous Because I say a lot of weird shit on this podcast I just kind of I'm sure he's compiling a document full of You know whatever your likely traumas or whatever it is I would love a psychological profile Of me done by the good doctor Gabor that would be sick And lobby you didn't get your emotional needs met in childhood That's what he says about everybody

It's true though It's true I mean who isn't it true I know So today, I think a good portion of this episode is going to be about what is going on right now in Hasbara land. No other topic. No other topic. There's no other show than this show.

And I mean, what can you say about the last few days other than it has been beautiful to watch the state of Israel go through all of their $150 million hasbara budget for? 2025 um just on talking about no other land winning an oscar like just the amount of the amount of tweets the amount of like uh to camera videos the amount of just uh like opeds um it's been really fascinating to watch because uh i knew they would freak out about it was one of the reasons that i hope the movie would win was because i was like this is going to be a great amount a wave of content, the likes of which we have never seen before. Now, I have not seen the movie. Daniel, you've seen this movie? I have seen this movie. And Simone, have you seen this movie? Yes. So this fits perfectly on brand with who does the homework in this group of us.

That's right. I don't have the time to sit around and see whole movies. I just like to collect tweets from people who are mad about things. That's my role in society. and on this podcast, but were you guys, were you, Simone, at all, surprised by the win? Was this something you were expecting for the Academy to do? Or was it like, wow, I can't believe that they actually, you know, went through with it? I guess maybe both. I mean, we'll get into it in a bit, but I mean, I just was like weeping when they won. I was just so, I didn't think they were going to actually.

do it. Yeah. It just felt like given this moment and given the industry, that it just would be, you know, they gave them the nomination and like wouldn't give it to them. So I'm just, I am shocked that they did it actually. And it was pretty sweet to watch them win that award and give those speeches in a room full of people, both people who have felt silence in Hollywood for so long. I mean, you could hear the applause and the cheers in the audience from all the people who are artists for Seasfire or whatever beyond that who are like, so happy to see that, get that validation on the stage. And then also to be in a room full of people

who have made it their mission over the last year and a half to ensure that Palestinian voices, Palestinian stories do not get airtime in Hollywood. And we know the level of absolutely psychopathic behavior that has accompanied all of that. But we know that those people were in the room having to listen to that. And that was pretty delicious, I'll say.

I got to say that for me was probably my favorite, thing ever. Because while I did enjoy watching the kind of catharsis of people like myself and like you and others that I'm sure we're in the audience being like, this is amazing. I'm so

glad that like, you know, Academy voters didn't like chicken out on like political, you know, being scared of the politics of the whole thing. But watching an audience full of people with, I think it was Noah Colwin who said

like just the most practiced poker faces you have ever fucking seen. People who are just like, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, like they couldn't, you know, some didn't want to show elation, some didn't want to show that they were furious. Some didn't want to show that they'd ever heard of the place. Yeah, exactly. Interesting. Oh, so Northern land, all right, okay. What land is that?

What land is that? There's a river and there's a sea, some sort of. of banks um but yeah i want to play the uh the speech that happened uh the oscar win uh winning speech which uh is caused of course i mean the win alone caused controversy but the speeches uh themselves really ramped it up and you know that is that it's just like last year with a jonathan glazer's speech it was like the speech itself you know is uh what's going to be and in this case i was I think you're going to ask, did the podcast exist last year at the Oscars? It did.

Yes, we did a whole episode on the Jonathan Glazer win. Yeah, yeah. And in the case of that speech, he made an unforced error in terms of one sentence construction where he's like, we renounce our Jewish Judaism being used, you know, like, the way that sentence was constructed, left it open to the worst faith attacks. I mean, they would have found a way to attack it anyway. Right. But, yeah, I mean, we remember the, sorry.

Go ahead. No. No. And then the responses from, there was that Hollywood letter responding to Jonathan Glazer that was like, not only do we denounce Jonathan Glazer for denouncing his Judaism. Like, you can read. There was a full sentence there. But okay. And then they were like, you know, there is no occupation. Jews are indigenous. I mean, they really like, they went hard on a level of denialism. But I just, I was thinking of all those people watching the speech this time, just being like, it must be melting your brain to once. again have to watch an Israeli Jews say that he's against supremacy. Right. And watching a Palestinian, you know, breathing. Well, breathing, but now award-winning documentary filmmaker, you know. Stand on stage and stay, we're again calling for people to stop the ethnic cleansing of his village. Right.

And of his people. Saying the word resist, which is something that is pissed off a lot of people. So here is the speech for us all to watch. Thank you to the Academy for the award. It's such a big honor for the four of us and everybody supported us for this documentary. About two months ago, I became a father and my hope to my daughter that she will not have to live the same life. I'm living now, always feeling, always feeling settlers' violence, home demolitions, and forest-built displacements that my community, is living and facing every day under the israel occupation no other land reflect

the harsh reality that we have been enduring for decades and still resist as we call on the world to take serious actions to stop the injustice and to stop the ethnic cleansing of Palestinian people so that was uh basil adra who was who is the Palestinian filmmaker and co-director. And this is the other co-director in the duo an Israeli filmmaker named Yuval Abraham. And we should say it's actually a quartet of directors. Oh, there's four directors.

There's another Israeli Jew. There's another Palestinian. They're standing with Rachel Shore, and I'm blanking on the other guy's name. It's the other guy's name. What is the other one? Hum done, I believe. Hum done.

Okay. And there's Samuel L. Jackson in the background thinking, I don't remember asking you a goddamn thing about settler violence. Some Zionist posted a close-up of Samuel L. Jackson's face, like, plausibly cringing and grimacing and shaking his head as Basel was talking. You can't tell what his expression means, but being like, yeah, Samuel L. Jackson's based. He knows what's up. Yeah, yeah.

He knows this is anti-Semitic incitement. Yes, they've been trying to, uh, yeah, basically project all of these like pro-Zzyzymes. his views onto Samuel L. Jackson. While I'm not, you know, I don't know. I haven't done any research into it, but I can pretty much guarantee that everything he was doing on stage there was just, you know, had almost nothing to do with anything other than just he's on stage and he's making little jokes. I don't know about that.

I mean, Matt, what's in your wallet? That's a good point. You know what I'm saying? I mean, I do think that like, you know, like the poker faces you saw in the crowd, he's what I saw was him essentially doing a poker face just going okay well this is getting spicy yeah um I mean and what can what can you expect from fair most actors let me not we made this film Palestinians and Israelis because together our voices are stronger we we we see each other the atrocious destruction of Gaza and its people which must end the Israeli hostages brutally taken in the

crime of October 7th which must be freed when I look at Basel I see my brother but we are unequal we live in a regime where I am free under civilian law and Basel is under military laws that destroy his life and he cannot control there is a different path a political solution without ethnic supremacy with national rights for both of our people and I have to say as I am here the foreign policy in this country is helping to block this path and you know why can you see that we are intertwined that my people can be truly safe if basil's people are truly free and safe there is another way it's not too late for life

for the living there is no other way thank you so what i one of the things that i I noticed in that and that I really love was the moment when he says, and I have to say your country, you know, the United States' foreign policy is making it impossible. And that was a line for the crowd that I felt like, for them, they were like, well, Trump's president now. So yes, we agree with that. We all saw what he did to our boy, Vladimir on Friday. Yeah, Volodymyr. Volodomir. Thank you very little. But, you. But, you know, yeah no like straight up he like the the entire crowd had permission had permission to agree with the idea that american foreign policy is bad um you know now and and for me i just as much as i'm

like well good at least they're doing it now you there's that deep dark spiteful part of me that just goes like none of you mean it you just you just uh you know you just hate trump And that's, you want to blame Trump for something that you were completely silent about, if not defiantly pro when Biden was in office. Yeah, I mean, that was one of several things in Yuval's speech that, um, I thought if I could have just tweaked a couple of words or added a couple of words, you know, I would have said the U.S. longstanding policy, you know, like for decades. It's not about right now that we have some kind of troublesome, um,

fascist dictator who's making it hard to make peace in the Middle East. So maybe we could just touch on this now, maybe come back to it, but I just like watching it again and Simone, I'm really curious to hear your take. You know Basel and Yuval personally, right? Yeah. Yeah, you're quite connected to that Masafriata community.

So I'm sure that this victory affected you on levels that it didn't affect me. Having seen the film and having had my own thoughts about it, I liked it, I really, I was glad it existed. I had my reservations, my critiques, but overall I was like, yes, and I was really happy to see them win. And at the time when I watched the speeches, I was like, okay, they did pretty good. I mean, I don't know how the hell I would, you know, concision is terrible for me. I can't speak concisely. And that's you. Much less in a moment like, then that's me.

I'm 10 times worse, so I can completely get it. And you and I are both native English speakers, you know, raised on this continent, not on the Oscars stage with the weight of a million different clashing expectations on us. I can't imagine, like watching it now, my experience watching it, first of all, is just a kind of somatic, I feel the, well, the difference between the two of them. And there's the commonality, of course, you know, and Yuval says, I see my brother when I look at him. And I truly believe that Basel considers Yuval.

a trusted friend and collaborator. He made this film with him. I don't agree with some of the takes that are like, oh, he's just going along with what the Israeli settler is doing and, you know, like totally robbing Basel of any agency. Sure. There is a kinship there. And at the same time, it's a different thing

to watch a Palestinian man stand up there on stage. And this is not to judge either of them, but the nervousness in Basel's voice, but also the strength as he speaks about being a father to stand as he I'm reading Muhammad al-Kurd's book right now, perfect victims, and just getting more and more sensitized to how little I can even imagine what it is to try to stand up as a Palestinian human being in front of the Western world on a Western stage like that and state your case. and have to humanize yourself in the face of the radical dehumanization that is just part of

Palestinian's lot in this world, right? It's basically the death machine has given you one minute to speak. Could you say all of your thoughts concisely, please, and in another language? Right, and preferably if you could reassure us along the way that you don't hate Jews. Right, right, exactly. And that you understand the difference between, you know, I thought he did a beautiful job um with yvall it it it is more complicated uh and i i found i find myself in some moments cheering and in some moments cringing and in some moments wishing that it had been a little bit

different um uh the the the movie ultimately isn't a call for coexistence it's not a buddy buddy film their friendship is laced throughout it but the awkwardness of it is very much part of it like and credit to Yuva like he goes there he puts his body on the line he exhibits a kind of like physical and moral

bravery that I'm not sure I would exhibit if I was born in his circumstances he goes right up to soldiers he gets in their faces and he allows himself to be filmed with Palestinians saying what are you even doing here

like you're you're you're going home to your comfy situation on the other side of the green line. But there is something, I think the collaboration between them, and you can see it on that stage, it raises questions at least. What are the limits of collaborate,

what are the possibilities of collaboration between colonizer and colonized? What are the limits of collaboration between settler and occupied? Is true collaboration even possible? Are they, is what each of them says compatible with what the other one says,

I do wish he hadn't equated the destruction of Gaza with like the hostages in October 7. There's a few moments in there where I'm like, that's going to make it more palliative. And of course, then you think, well, what would I do if I was in a situation? He's trying to be strategic.

Right. And is it worth it if you start mangling the moral calculus? So it's complicated watching it. And it should be complicated. It's a complicated thing that Israelis and Palestinians made a film together. Co-resistance

is a messy thing. And ultimately, I think it's a beautiful thing that it happened and that they won and they got the opportunity to get up there and do it. I could say more,

but Simone, what's your feeling witnessing all of that? Because I know that there's been a lot of discourse. I kind of want to pick up where you left. which is that with the idea of co-resistance yeah look I'm the only thing I really have to say about the content of their speeches is that I would assume that they plan them together like

yeah this is a team that works together I think it is really condescending and patronizing of people to kind of like assume that that is not the case that there wasn't like an agreed upon message and that you know this you know arrogant israeli just came in and said some shit you see the takes that are like, I hated how that Israeli took over the speech. Yeah, yeah. It's like, actually, we just watched it again, Basel stepped aside, and then you've all spoke.

And I'm, I'm, if I had given that speech, I might not have used all of those words. I certainly wouldn't have used all of those words, but I didn't give that speech and I didn't make that film. And I'm not Israeli. So I think what I kind of want to talk about

is like there's an interesting thing that is happening. I would say both in the mainstream and in some of the, reactions from parts of the movement that I've seen online to the film, which is critiquing the idea that this film is trying to offer parity. I mean, one of the things that you've all said in his speech was, we are not equal in this land, right? Like that he did say our fates are intertwined and he also and he also said they are not

equal, right? And I think that what's important to understand about what is happening in Masafriata is that these are some of the most vulnerable communities in the West Bank. These are communities that live in very rural parts of the West Bank. It's called Area C. This is an area that the Israeli military also has full civilian and military control over, which also means this is also where all the settlements are. And these are Palestinian villages that are experiencing every single day direct violence and threats from the military and from the settlers who work together

with the military. We have, this is something that has been going on for decades, the threats against these communities since October 7th. And the film, an interesting thing about the film is that basically all of it was filmed pre-October 7th and post-October 7th. There have already been completed expulsions, ethnic cleansing, of many communities, like the community of Masafriata across the West Bank. I don't have the immediate numbers on me right now. But it's just to say, this is a film that is documenting an ethnic cleansing in process,

right? And this community is resisting, has chosen that part of their strategy for resisting that ethnic cleansing is to invite Jewish activists to be a protective presence, to literally put their bodies in between the Palestinians and the community and the soldiers and the settlers coming to everything from like, destroy their water tanks, steal their electric generators, you know, kill their livestock, prevent them from grazing on their land, destroying their actual homes.

I mean, it's everything, right? And it's, and also physically attacking them. And, you know, I think that first, of all it should be said that like any Jewish activist who like goes into those communities the film actually depicts this right the limits of this paradigm the fact that at the end of the day the Jewish Israelis or the Jewish internationals can leave this is something where they can dip in and out and for the Palestinians in the village that violence is relentless it never goes away it's every single second right and and there there are moments in the film where like

Yuval is there's there's two scenes in particular that I remember I saw a film while ago. One is where Yuval is going to go home and they're like, why are you going home and what are you coming back? Right? And just that, the pain of that moment. And then there's another moment where they say something like, you want this to happen really quickly and it's not going to happen quickly. Yeah, Basel says that to him straight up. He says, you're impatient because Yuval's thinking, like he's saying, I need to write more about this. My last one didn't get a lot of clicks. like he's he's there's a kind of well potentially a kind of white savior track in his brain maybe it's not that but there is a kind of from the outside okay how are we going to fix this

meanwhile the guy who lives and whose family is subject to this is saying to him this does not happen on your timeline this does not happen that quickly yeah you can't expect to come in here and flip the status quo with some, you know, either words that you write or art. And that's, I think, an important thing. Look, and I think that there is a savior complex for a lot of people who come and do that kind of activism. Sure.

And what the actual ask is is something that I think almost, I don't want to say none of us, but like very few people I know would be willing to take the kind of physical risks that these activists have been asked to take and do take, right? And again, this highlights, like, the extreme inequality of Israeli apartheid and settler colonialism, the fact that the death machine and the colonization machine is trained on, it's about elimination of Palestinians and making life so miserable in that place that they leave. And the Jewish activists who come in, like, I'm really not trying to kind of valorize what they do.

I am trying to put some real respect on what they do and the level of risk they have to take and that all has been invited and led by the Palestinian residents of Masafriata who have asked these people to come in and be in partnership with them. So it's really not, I think this idea like, oh, it's an Israeli-Palestinian film

that shows like we can all live together. No, that's not what it is. It's actually a story about the level of inequality that is built into the apartheid regime. And what does it look like to be somebody who is on the edges outside of that Jewish Zionist consensus, right? People, the activists in that film are, these are radicals who are sitting there crossing the boundary to go be with the residents of these communities. And, again, I think we should, like, part of the point of the film is the fact that the Jews are there doesn't stop it, right? Right. Yeah.

And they're the subject. No, it doesn't stop it, which is, that is an important message. And I wonder how much that message has really made it to, like, the mainstream, right? That was perhaps not the message that was communicated on the stage. Well, to be fair to everybody, um, uh, you know, Zionist and non-Zionist alike, and I don't like to be fair to anybody, usually,

but there's still no distribution for this film in the United States, so a lot of people haven't seen it. And so it does, you know, to me as someone who has not seen the movie, just based on the, you know, kind of discussions about it and, you know, the speeches that I saw,

that's all I have to go on. So, you know, I don't fully blame people for when they hear our fates are intertwined and standing together and whatnot. Well, especially since the movie's called... Their immediate response is, you know, like, hey, is this some sort of

coexistence, you know, bullshit? Exactly. Especially since the movie's called No Other Land, which sounds very much like... Like everything Zionists say all the time. That's right. Neither of us have any other place. And in fact, Haaret's just ran an editorial

being like, for Israelis and Palestinians, there is no other land. And in Yuval's speech, he said, there is no other option or no other way or something like that. However, the film itself, which we should, I think, evaluate on its own merits or can or ought to or we might benefit from evaluating on its own merits, does not use the title in that way. It's not a film about Palestinians and Israelis sitting down next to each other and being like, you know what, we've both been through a lot. we've both suffered a lot. Even if, you know, our fates are intertwined, it's not because, you know, my trauma and your trauma are equal.

In fact, it's not even a co-equal statement in the film. It's just what I think Basel's mother or another woman in the village says, we have no other place to go. We have no other land. This is our village. Yeah. Can you read the, uh,

Ahmad al-Kurd passage, just to inform everyone what we're talking about when we talk about this particular passage that people have been sharing as part of this kind of critique of the movie. Yeah, and this is just, I don't think this obviates or contradicts anything. In fact, a few pages later, he says, I'm not saying that Palestinians shouldn't work with Westerners. I'm not saying that they shouldn't work with Israelis. but he is asking for some awareness of some of the invisible... Right, be conscious of the dynamics that you're seeing.

So he talks, and he's not speaking specifically about this movie because this movie hadn't come out when he wrote the book. Right, right, right, right. Speaking about a genre. Take the genre of Israelis and Palestinians making films together. The Palestinian filmmaker is chaperoned to the film festival, allowed on stage as their authoritative, co-signatories charismatic sidekick.

This guy can really write. Muhammad, I mean. No one, not the producer of the festival, not the columnist writing a review, seems to care about the content of the film, whether it is good or garbage. What matters most is that the film was co-directed, a mode that satisfies a libidinal urge in the viewers. I think that's true. I think psychologically, emotionally, there's some truth to this.

Or at least it rings true for me. I think that's 100% true. That's true about a lot of how reviewers are talking about this film. The libidinal part specifically, like you think people like swirling, is that what you're saying? Like people just like the idea of the Palestinian and what do you mean? I mean that on some libidinal level, I don't mean erotic, but on some level of it feeling good in the body to imagine Jews and Palestinians finally coming together and making art that transcends politics or that points to a better future. I mean, that are its editorial, which we don't have in front of us. But it says it's sort of like, a film, a moment like that on the Oscar stage, a scene like that with those two, they're two young, attractive guys who look like they could be brothers or cousins, right?

You know, the inequality for a moment, we can glimpse a possible reality in which the inequality isn't real. And that makes us, speaking of isn't real, which makes us feel good and we want to feel good because this conflict makes us feel so bad all the time. Right, right, right. Al-Curd continues. Do you want to say something this long? No, I'll say it after you finish. Okay. They, the viewers, eavesdrop on a forbidden conversation,

a titillating reconciliation between the Slayer and the slain. Discussions about the film, reviews, the way it is promoted, and our excited elevator pitches to one another all become masturbatory, reducing the film to the fact that it was a collaboration between an Israeli and a Palestinian, fulfilling the viewer's fantasy of a happy ending to an otherwise miserable story, were turn it into a fetish. And they could have done the best possible job. I mean, Yuval's speech could have been flawless,

and that would still be true. It's in the background. It's in the subtext of Israeli-Palestinian collaboration on the Oscar stage. And that's, I don't think we need to shy away from that, even as we celebrate the victory as a victory, which from everything I've seen, the people of Masafayata overwhelmingly are, you know, they chose to embark on this venture.

It was done with their participation, with their consent, with their awareness. But their strategic sign-off that, yeah, of course we're going to use the presence of these Israeli filmmakers to get our story out there. We're trying to save our fucking homes. And all of these things are true at the same time. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think that this passage is like he's 100% spot on about this. we've seen it play out around this film in particular.

And I think part of what I was trying to say before is like, I do not believe that that is what the film is about and that is also not what the Jewish members of the film team. That is not what they are about in this project. And I think that translates in a film that is actually, like I actually think the film leaves you feeling heartbroken and outrage because what you actually see is, that none of this is stopping this machine of ethnic cleansing.

Like, and you can just feel it. Like, the film ends, and you just feel like, I don't know if these villages are going to make it. I don't know if these people are going to survive this thing. And I think it's, I think those of us who have access to these types of spaces should, like, really question, I mean, this is something I ask myself all the time. Obviously, it's like a Jewish person who has a voice in, the public sphere like we should really question why it is that people want to listen to

Jewish voices and Jewish stories and be really careful about like what that is in service of and about how we should not make people feel good about this because there is nothing to feel good about about what is happening on the ground right now right and that's what I was saying about like I just it's like it's so insulting to to whitewash and co-opt the Israeli Jews who are in this project because they themselves, like, are people who have had to step very far outside of the consensus in their society and are paying a real price for it. Their society wants them out, you know? Like what it's going to take to get to the thing, what it does take to get to the thing

that's being depicted in the film, and what it would take to make that a reality is the shattering of a Zionist paradigm. Right. And that's true. Yeah, and I think people like to read into the intent of the film purely based on their read into the intent of the Oscar speech that you've all gave. So, you know, there's just, it's like a game of telephone where everyone is, you know, based on also, you know, like they'll pull out some tweets and they'll be like, oh, this is, you know, what this is is really insidious liberal Zionism. And I haven't seen the movie, I don't know. And I don't know you've all personally.

So it's like there's no part of me that can claim to to know any of this firsthand. But, you know, I think what I will say about all this is like I understand the why this wasn't a win for some people. I completely understand the kind of generalized critique that Muhammad Al-Kurd was making regarding the sort of like green bookery of a lot of this. kind of genre and how often. And usually you see it more so in fiction, like the, especially in the Israeli film industry, you know, the sort of Tel Avivian movie about two gay men, one Palestinian and one Israeli and the forbidden love type thing. Six-pointed star crossed lovers. Exactly. And, you know, I haven't seen this movie. I know it's not that. But I understand the kind of the feeling of, you know, people who have described it as crumbs, accepting crumbs, right?

And I, like, you know, I get that. I'm not, that's not something for me where I'm just like, what are you talking about? Like, I'm in no way mad about that type of critique, because I do see art, especially, you know, the way art is celebrated in the West and, you know, in L.A. as, Being a useful tool for pacification, you know, people can pat themselves on the back and say, I watch this movie. Therefore, I don't have to engage with the subject anymore. Or, you know, especially in this culture where raising awareness seems to be where everything ends. When it comes to everyone's individual personal activism, it's like, oh, good, I've raised awareness. My work here is done. And I can see being resentful of that. So I get that. But here, is where I fall on this is I think y'all who are maybe more mad about this you're not petty enough

you need to really embrace the deep the pettiness deep inside of you I'm a very petty person so for me a good portion of this win was me celebrating this win

was because I knew of the freak out that it would create. I knew that it attacks Zionists where they're most vulnerable. Matt has full moon fever. That's a Tom Petty joke. Oh, okay. Okay. I don't listen to enough Tom Petty. Like, anything... Adam's such a boomer. Anything that attacks, I think, where Zionists are most vulnerable, which is like their own self-image, I think is wonderful. I enjoyed watching what I knew would happen if this was, you know, to win was that people freaking out over seeing a, not just seeing a perspective that they've been saying out loud, shouting from the rooftops is Hamas propaganda for the last like, not, never mind 16 months for like decades for some of these

people. But to see that that kind of movie, uh, was allowed to win, to see that that kind of movie was allowed to be given a platform on one of like mainstream entertainment industry's most hollowed nights. I think for them, for Zionists in general, that shit is mortifying because that is like, that's all they have is the narrative. The narrative is everything. That's, you know, why we do this podcast is because their narrative is just so flimsy that to just poke at it a little bit.

and you watch it dissolve in front of you. And yet they have been skating on this narrative of no, actually, the Israelis are the oppressed ones and we can't even live in certain parts of the West Bank because it's not yet ours. So like, I guess I would just, I would say, like, try to enjoy the misery of bad people a little bit more. Yeah, well, I mean, but by the same, I'm with you. And by the same token, I can also understand people being past the point where the kind of things that turn us on turn them on anymore. Like they've seen like even Zionists showing their whole ass and a half is they're over that. And which means that maybe they're not bad as bar our listeners or maybe they're only casual listeners. That's all we do here. We live on that shit. We, we, we are, we, we, we drink the, the Scott Templeton. What, what? What's, what? is, what was his name?

Scott Templeton. From the South Park episode, Scott Tenerman, we drink Scott Tenerman's tears. Yeah. You're delicious tears. You know, and I'm sure for many of these people, I can imagine being at the point where there's no, even no more delight to be had. They're past the point where irony is, is going to, or that kind of irony is going to help. It has no more coping value because the horrors of just, we're just past that point.

So I get that too. I get that too, in which case, and in which case I would just say, okay, it won an award, it had a moment. I don't think, and I think someone you'd agree with me, you know, award speeches, award ceremonies come and go. The film will remain. The win will increase the chances that it'll get more distribution or they'll be a curiosity about it. And I don't think anyone, I'd be hard-pressed to take any argument seriously that would say anyone actually seeing this film is doing themselves any damage.

I think this film is, I think this film... Well, at least anyone who's pro-Palestine. That's right, yeah. Right, right. There's a lot of emotional damage can be done if you're Zionist. Am I right?

You're emotionally damaged, Jewishly. Thank you. I think the film, the film may omit certain larger political analyses. It's very zoomed in. It's very intimate, and I think it's one of his strengths, but also one of its limitations. But I think anyone watching the film, I think more people seeing this film, I would say, seems to me. It's probably a positive thing. So, but I get anyone not having, not being able to fully, full-throatedly celebrate it or maybe even

feeling a twinge at, because, but that, what does that even highlight? that in a situation like this with so much inequality, even the wins that are available are exceptions that prove the rule, they are the wins that prove the defeat. Right. You know, they may feel like periodic victories. Sure, but I mean...

I can't say anything to that. Right. I'm just saying, you know, if you want to attempt to, I don't know, squeeze out some optimism for many of it, I encourage it. I think it's always better to do that. And I also look at like sort of the counterattacks to the critiques.

Like in general, I look at it and I go like, it is okay to let people have their critiques. And it is also okay for you to critique their critiques. There's no problem with it whatsoever. Just try to, you know, try to remain, you know, I guess grounded and what you know is who you know is an ally and who isn't. And also don't take things online, sort of like the hot take machine too seriously. Because it is, you know, I think one of the strengths that I have seen, at least in the, you know, sort of pro-Palestine online movement, has been its ability to kind of quash to squash beef pretty quickly. Like people, I mean, Israel has done a really good job of getting

people to remain focused. And I think it is, you know, I think we should try to continue in that in that vein where it's like, you know, some people are going to have their critiques and that's fine. And fucking, you know, at the end of the day, fucking my personal belief is my personal belief and everyone has their own. And mine is that like, while I don't think that art changes things necessarily. I do think that... Only podcasts do that. I think only podcasts have that ability,

especially podcasts with, you know, sound boards. But also... That's the sound of freedom ringing out. Yes. But I do think that like, you know, the reason I enjoy, you know, sort of the freak out is because of the fact that

they know that Zionists and Israelis these know that so much of their Jewish ethno state, you know, support is based on American support. And the more that erodes, you know, it's like, you know, anything that erodes that support is just one more crack in the chain. Yeah. And, and for me, I can only, I can only be optimistic when I look at something like that, even if I know that, like, things like this have happened before. Well, we love to see the contradictions get within Zionism get heightened, don't we? We love seeing we love to see it. We love beefing with liberal Zionists. We love

seeing Shy versus Betar, you know what I mean? Yeah, we love Slick. Sliq. Where'd I get that? Where'd I get that? I made it. I make these things. This is my art that will change nothing. We're going to take a quick break, but everyone, please stick around. because we will be right back. And we're back. This Bad As Barrow's World's Most Moral Podcasts. I'm here with our most moral guest, Simone Zimmerman.

How you doing, Simone? So good. So good. Feeling so moral. Hell yeah. Feel moral because we just won an Oscar. Not us. Not us at all.

I would like to. But no. Instead, it was no other land won an Oscar and everyone freaked out. Here are some of my favorite. We just want an Oscar for the best. Critique of critiques. The best delicate dancing around, a difficult, thorny subject related to an Oscar ceremony. That's right.

But I want to talk about some of that we've been teasing these reactions and, you know, I want to show them. At this point, people have already seen. Can we do some Hasbara, please? Let's do some Hasbara. So first, you know, one of my absolute favorites, probably the MVP of the night, was John Putthoritz, who started off the night with, so far, this is the best Oscars I think I've ever seen. And I've been watching since 1971. He was definitely naked alone in his apartment with a tub of ice cream on his chest. And so I can only imagine his shock and horror when he saw that no other land won the Oscar.

and I love fuck you anti-Semitic anti-Israel Hollywood filth which I think I'm going to turn into my Twitter bio I just

it's too good reminds me of Jordan Peterson's response to when Elmo wished everyone I'm gonna move back everyone and Jordan Peterson said up yours

Hamas scum to Elmo to Elmo congratulations to Hamas for its Oscar win I really love Now let's see them destroyed I love when an old man

puts, you know the word in caps for emphasis it just brings out the old shriekiness of the tweet Yeah

And then this Almost incomprehensible tweet Once you won Minor Movie Awards For making Holocaust things Now it's for anti-Israel things Thank God the movies are dying

At this point this guy just renounced movies. He really switched weed strain throughout the evening. I mean, he really... Yeah, I mean, whatever he was smoking, it just was getting worse and worse. He should stick with the sativa. That Indica's really

not agreeing with him. Absolutely. And we had... This is the fucking best. Christopher... Well, I haven't even seen this one. Christopher Cuomo. Yes, Fredo says, so

he's replying to Howard Beckett, who I don't know, wrote no other land wins the Oscar for Best Documentary the directors call for an end just settler violence and then everything he's called for just a little recap of what they talked about

and they're right and he goes no takeaways about their message about the terrorist group and control of Gaza the one that instigated this with its atrocities on October 7th instigated what Chris the destruction of Masafariata

instigated doesn't make much sense since the film was largely completed before October 7th and about events that have been going on for decades. Well, how could that be? In the West Bank. How could that be? In the West Bank where Hamas has no control. Guys, that's literally impossible because October 7th is when this all started. So I don't know. It's the start of recorded time. That's right. Um, I loved Emily. I'm writing a, I'm writing a, uh, a dissertation on, uh, October 7th's influence on the,

uh, the reformation. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. on the French Revolution and other important historical events that happened before it. Yeah, October 7th was the beginning of the Protestant Church. Everyone knows. Martin Luther nailed his list of demands to the gate of Kibbutz. Yeah, but it turned out that it wasn't a list of hostages. It was just a calendar. So this is a freak out from Emily Schrader.

And this is just like, I just love, I love her. If Basil Adra wants his daughter to grow up in a different reality, quote, without violence, he doesn't need to be pontificating to Hollywood about it. He needs to be fighting against Hamas and Islamism within Palestinian society. I just want to point out the beginning of that sentence is, if Basil Adra wants his daughter to grow up in a different reality without violence, you have to love. the tone-deaf nature, like, just the way in which they gloss over the first part of the sentence in which you say, like, if you want your daughter who is newly born to not experience

violence, how do you talk about a baby that way and try to look like the good guy? Am I crazy? I'm not crazy. That's an insane thing to say about a baby. This is your brain on Hasbara. I swear to God. I mean, it's like... Yeah, it's the utter contempt for Palestinian life. It's the sheer unbridled hatred and the presumption that they're going to need to earn the world in which they get to grow up, period.

You're going to need to earn the safety of a baby. That's a privilege. Getting to see your teenage years is a privilege, not a right. My replies about when I tweeted about the film where like a mix of people being like, this film is fake, nothing in there happened, and also whatever happened to them, they deserve it. I mean, it's like the two-step of Husbar always,

which is like first denial and then, well, if it's happening, it's their fault. Not our army, not our settlers. Not my America. Yeah. She also wrote, also, Loll at Yuval thinking his political opinions about U.S. foreign policy matter. And furthermore, thinking that sharing his opinions to a crowd of left-wing Hollywood elites is somehow stunning and brave.

I don't know. The brigade was in that room. It was pretty, uh, yeah. Have we talked about the brigade yet? No, we haven't. The brigade, uh, for those you don't know, the Hollywood reporter reported, uh, this great story in which they, uh, just did PR for this group of people that doesn't matter and it doesn't really exist. Um, Jewish Hollywood protests artists for ceasefire pins after, uh, Biba's body's release. Have you no shame? Uh, love starting this with Jewish Hollywood. You got to love the, like, the way in which it's okay for them to say that because it's the Hollywood reporter.

And the author's name is Aiton. Yes. Vessing. Let's see. The brigade representing some. May his byline be a blessing. Yes. I feel blessed.

The brigade representing some 700 producers, filmmakers, agents, managers, publicists, executives, actors, and actresses is taking issue. with a letter encouraging attendees of the 2025 Academy Awards to wear a controversial emblem. I just want to point out, the brigade, which is a group founded by PR, studio executives and filmmakers in the wake of October 7th, Hamas Tech,

has issued a strongly worded statement. They are all, what do you call it, anonymous? This is a group of 500 completely anonymous. 700. oh is it 700 yes 700 uh producers filmmakers agents managers publicists etc who are all anonymous that is how can you how can you be like have you no shame and then just be like well i guess you know i guess they do have shame that's why they're all anonymous i never thought about it like that before um but yeah this is uh this was them writing a a giant letter in which they were

trying to get people to not wear this pin and um it was great because what ended up happening was uh what's his name guy pierce just wore a pin that said free Palestine yeah and they were like no no symbolism whatsoever that's worse plain text um yeah so emily schrader uh you know wrote this thing and then right under that someone who i don't know leslie young just some random blue check mark probably bought. Fortunately, distribution of this film is proving a problem. We'll try to keep it that way. And that is a real thing.

No other land. This is won an Oscar without U.S. distribution. Now what? So they still do not have a distributor. Is that right as of so far? Yeah, as far as I know. Yeah. It's crazy.

It's absolutely nuts. And to continue with this freak out, one of the interesting ones has been the Israeli Minister of Culture and sports, Mickey Zohar. With whom you do not mess. Yes, you don't mess with the Zohar. Hey, good job.

And he has been on like, at this point, what is it, three days of furious tweeting about this film. He wrote, in Hebrew, he wrote, The Oscar win for the film, No other country is a sad moment for the world of cinema. Instead of presenting, how is it?

Is it a good accent? You know, almost there? I'd give you like a 6.5. 6.5, okay. Instead of presenting the complexity of our reality, the filmmakers chose to echo narratives. They distort Israel's image in the world. Freedom of expression is an important value.

But turning the slander of Israel into a tour for international promotion is not creation. It has sabotage of the state of Israel. And after October 7th massacre, and the ongoing war, it hurts doubly. Sorry, I don't know why it turned German there. It was already pretty Yiddish-coded. Was it?

Well, it is turning a little German in some ways, you know. In a way, the whole state is turning a little German. This is exactly why we passed the film reform. Oh, God, we need to get into what the fuck that is. To ensure that public resources directed to works that speak to the Israeli audience and not to an industry that makes a career out of defaming the country at foreign. festivals. Can you put this on the screen? No, this is me just reading

something I caught being pasted. Fair enough. And yeah, so he stepped up the attacks on Yuval specifically. This is something that I've seen shared everywhere, which was him yelling at the IDF. This is

how they have like, you know, framed it. So I'll play a little bit of this. This is a tweet from Raylan Givens, not the, not the real Raylan Givens, someone just pretending to be Raylan Givens. Shout out to Justified great TV show, except for Season 5

has Michael Rappaport, don't watch it. And you see him You know, like, you see sort of like a first person view. It looks like a body cam of Yuval yelling at the IDF. And he's saying back up, back up. Yes. And he's holding a camera of his own. Yes.

And the the tweet says, must watch. These are the Oscar winners who whine about the quote the violent quote occupation I love occupations in quotes this is what they look like from the other side of the camera attacking IDF soldiers

so they're showing this video now it turns out attacking IDF soldiers you see in the video that literally they're yelling and holding cameras and literally not touching them not touching them at all whatsoever and you know

if these are the IDF do such a thing, as Will Menaker said on Twitter, you know, what could account for this shocking display of incivility and rage? Yes. You know, those soldiers were just conducting normal operations in what everyone agrees is a closed military zone. They were just out there trying to listen to Sightrans music and do a little bit of, you know, bulldozing.

I have to say, I'm like, I've been obsessed with these videos. Yeah. Like, I'm, I'm literally like, this is the best you guys have at this point? Yeah, yeah. Like, all these accounts that are like breaking, must watch, like, the Pallywood exposed. It's like, wait, this is like kind of a cool video. Right, yeah. And actually kind of affirms the thing that they're saying.

100%. Yes, this is. And the best part about this particular attack, which once again was shared everywhere by the fucking Zohar. the, you know, minister of culture and sports. The best part about this is that it's actually not even fucking real. So the account fake reporter who does a lot of great actual reporting pointed this out. Contrary to claims made by various media networks and activists, a second video of the incident from another angle shows that Oscar-winning director, Yuval Abraham, is confronting a different.

citizen who is yelling at a woman, not the security forces, as was reported. So he's not actually even yelling at the IDF, if you see this video right here. There's a, uh, yeah, he's yelling at a settler who is currently, uh, yelling and getting in the face of a woman. And now Yuval is going up to him and telling him to back off, which is literally what he says. Mm-hmm. So it's like, it's, it's incredible that they, they can't even.

I mean, certainly there's going to be a video of him yelling at an actual IDF soldier. Why don't you just use that? Why wouldn't it? But they couldn't find one, so they made one up. I think what's also great about this video is it shows the exact thing that they say is happening on the ground, which is that settlers and the soldiers basically operate as one together. Right. Team up together.

Yeah. Yeah. It's literally proving their point. It is, it's incredible. just to continue in terms of like sort of the depravity. And this is, this one is insane. But like, so there was this fake news that spread around throughout Hasbara Twitter regarding the participation of Haim Katzman.

So Haim Katzman was an Israeli peace activist who was killed on October 7th. You might remember we had Haim sibling Noy Katzman. on the show as a guest. One of my first co-hosting appearances. In fact, maybe my first co-hosting appearance. Is that right? Yeah. And, yeah, so the Hezbarists are claiming that the filmmakers

dishonored him by not mentioning Hym Katsman in the Oscar speech. This is from a friend of the pod, psychopath, Adin. One of the Israelis who helped make the movie No Other Land was murdered by the Palestinians on October 7th, And he wasn't even mentioned. This shit was spread fucking fucking everywhere. Every single fucking Hezbar account from Facebook to Instagram to Twitter. They were all sharing this picture of Hymm.

And Noy and Hym's mother took to Facebook and said this. Yesterday, in a thread in a private group about the Oscar Award to No Other Land, I shared that my son, Dr. Hym Katz, visited Masfayata, the village where the documentary was filmed, and included a picture of him. Someone shared the picture on Instagram and included a nasty comment about how Hamas killed peace activists as well. Others used her post and an interview with filmmaker Yuval in which Hayim is mentioned as someone he knew who was killed on October 7th to criticize the filmmakers for not mentioning Hayim, quote, who helped make the film in their speech at the Oscars.

This went viral. Some posts have been edited or taken down, but the screenshots are still out there. As far as I know, Haim was not involved in the making of no other land, and there is no need to be outraged on his behalf. And whoever used the picture I shared in a private group without permission to denigrate murdered peace activists and whoever uses languages, a language like, quote, but Hamas killed them anyway, shame on you. and like this is like to me the height of disgusting this is where you you truly see fascism at its you know at its core in Zionism because like the willingness to just spread this picture of someone who was killed on October 7th a fellow Jew a fellow countrymen, you know, and to use that death to score the pettiest of points about like an Oscar speech not honoring the October 7th, you know, dead is like, it's just a level of putting

like land over people that is so disgusting that it's, it's insulting that Israel ever claims to give a shit about Jews. You know what I mean? Yvall did call October 7th the crime. They should Take that way. It's also, I mean, the other thing it made me think about, it's like there's also a story that came out of this week that families of the victims of October 7th were like getting beaten up and dragged out of the Knesset this week because they're demanding that there actually be a governmental inquiry into what happened that day. And of course, the government doesn't want to do it because it doesn't want to expose its

own failures and its own complicity. And it's just like there's something so incredibly bleak about the way that victims of October 7th are abused and their memory is abused by people who don't actually even care about their being like any real accountability within their own society for people who were killed on that day. They don't actually care. They only care about using the memories of these people to justify more violence against Palestinians and more racism and more revenge. And I mean, we don't have to reopen the Beba story as well, but it's like there is, I mean, just to kind of comment

on the group of Hollywood people who are like, how dare people forget that two children were killed this year? It's like, I mean, you listen to these people and it's like as if no other children have been killed this year. Right. Right. And they are only, and by the way, like also this week, we've seen statements come out from the Bebas family themselves being like,

stop making up stories about what is happening to our family. They literally shut up. Literally shut up, they're saying. Well, well, at least you don't have Ben, oh, you do. Calling one of the return hostages. Yeah. Saying that Eli Sharabi is is spreading Hamas propaganda when he reports that Hamas said to him that, yeah, your conditions are contingent on the conditions of our compatriots

in Israeli dungeons. Right. Yeah. No respect whatsoever for their own fallen. I mean, it's crazy, too, because it's like something that I honestly, like, I don't know if I felt quite that way, maybe on a theoretical level, but before October 7th, I always felt a little bit like the Israeli citizens themselves and world. and Jews of the world were sort of human shields for this, you know, depraved ideology.

But I always gave a little bit of, injected a little bit of humanity into it because I was like, well, of course, of course they care. Of course they care. Like, you know, of course, because who wouldn't care? I mean, of course. You know, it's just like, you know, I'm not trying to dehumanize them to the point of thinking they don't care about their own dead. But then you just like see the absolute commitment. to this project and you go like no i i truly think they do not care beyond using it as a tool um to to get more land to get more soil like it is blood over soil it's not even blood and soil

fascism it's it's just blood over soil fascism it's fucking isn't it soil over blood because they want the land and they don't care who dies for it sure but yeah no that's right yeah yeah yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah. Soil over blood. That's, if I had said it right and not been dyslexic, fuck, I would have had a good point. But, uh, yeah, we got there together. We got there. You know, we're stronger together.

Uh, our fates are intertwined. But yeah, it's, it's like, you know, just watching, especially, you know, with Noi, who was on the show and talking about this, this is something that noise had to deal with since it happened. And I just can't imagine that level of, like, cruelty, you know, to, like, just glom on to this. Like, oh, good, good. I've got some, I've got some fresh bullshit that I can push out in order to talk about the fucking Oscars, these petty, these petty bitches. This is why I say we need to be more petty, because we got to match this level of pettiness. It's truly insane. lastly lastly we're going to talk about the liberal Zionists my absolute favorite

they've been an interesting position lately what's that they've been in an interesting position lately it's been really fun to watch yes so uh i mean listen they are liberals they're Zionists are they liberal Zionists who knows but we do know one thing uh they don't know what to feel so um Blake give it to me Blake flayton who uh is someone that I I mean, I've known about him for a while. I don't know if we've actually, like, discussed him on the show, but he's a great, he's just the kind of guy we used to devote entire episodes to. Yes, a young, just a young guy.

I mean, he's been a young guy forever. He's got to be in his 30s now. No, he's still in his 20s? I think he's pretty young. God, he's like been a Wunderkint of like Child Hasbara for like ever since I've been interested in this, which is, to be fair, only like 10 years. Blake Blighton. Yes, so he wrote, we now have Jewish influence.

with hundreds of thousands of followers calling no other land, quote, terrorist propaganda. I am critical of the film as well. But come on, people. Labeling everything is the work of terrorists is why we keep losing arguments. Engage with the issue that the film addresses directly, do not be afraid to criticize Israel. It strengthens our credibility. We have the winning argument. There's a perspective and there is context missing in the film. You don't need to label every Palestinian as Hamas. I really want to hear his follow-up to that. I really want to know what does he,

what do we all know is missing from that film? Have you demonstrated to me that you've actually seen this film? Right. Yeah. And then tell me like, what do we need to know to better understand the justice of the Israeli army trying to turn indigenous Palestinian villages into closed military firing zones

and shooting people in the stomach at close range and paralyzing and killing people and pouring concrete into their wells and generally on a daily basis terrorizing people. Where's the good part? Right. So I would guess that the context that maybe he might think is missing is, you know, that some version of like,

They deserve it. Our indigenity matters more, whatever. Or there's going to be a two-state solution and we're going to solve all of this, right? Because that's what this camp is also trying to stop. There's a good Israel that needs to be saved that is not being depicted in this film. Right.

And I think what's pretty rich and delicious, I'm also quite petty. So I've been enjoying watching these accounts, trying to kind of like... Reach a middle. ground with psychopaths? Yeah, we're there all of a sudden coming out and being like, guys, we're not conists here. Yeah, yeah. Don't share the genocidal, don't share the genocidal posts and memes. Like, that is not what our movement is about. Our movement is about being really nice.

Yeah, it's like, I mean, there's something like so pathetic. You know, I feel like one of the things that they often say about our side is like, you know, they all want to kill you anyways. Like you, like, you like useful idiot Jews like trying to be blah blah blah blah and it's like you are in a movement with kahanis you are part of a movement that has been backing and supporting a genocide for the last year and a half and now you're trying to all of a sudden be like whoa guys like you know we're not racist against all of them you know like we're not about killing them all we're not about painting them all with one brush and it's like yeah you are and I'm pretty sure the replies are going to reaffirm oh yeah yeah yeah

A hundred percent. Everyone is just mad at him. I just want to read some of my favorites. Flake Flabby Head is upset that pissed off Jews are ruining his social life. One guy just wrote Blake Goitin got his ass. And you're right, it's not terrorist propaganda. It's treason. Like, people have just been tearing these guys to shreds because they are trying to now. I mean, here's the thing. They're doing the thing where they're doing the thing where they're we're like guys come on we're not like this like let's try to you know not um they're like guys we're better than this and everyone else like no we're not yes exactly yeah but you know what that gives them the opportunity to play the whole everyone's mad at me so i must be right i must be right

yes yes exactly and oh you know the the the pro-palestine people hate me and the kahanis hate me that's how i know i'm the correct opinion right spot more yeah exactly that's how you know you're do it, you're winning. Yes. And a friend of the show, Hen Mazig, did it as well. Um, and Hens take is, uh, oops, sorry. Hens take is, uh, the creators of no other land did not call for ethnic cleansing. Correct. They are making a film against ethnic cleansing. That's right. They did not downplay the violence of October 7th. Where they are, I wish they hadn't foregrounded it so much because it's not relevant to the film, but sure, sure. Were they harsh when they talked about the Israeli government, it depends on who you're asking. Empathy isn't a zero-sum game.

Since when, I know, since literally when? I feel like Michael Rappaport did this too, but not about the film. He's just like, hey, guys, just so you know, like, we need to stop being so mad at each other as Jews. Like, we should all be together and, you know, everyone's got different opinions. And it's not about all Palestinians. It's just Hamas. And literally since when? Since Beatar came on the scene, I feel like the emergence of like out and proud and very vocal and obnoxious kahanists in the discourse is prompting these fuckers to like desperately try to distinguish themselves. Yeah, try to disson, yeah, distance themselves from them. A kind of like Zionist respectability politics. Yes, which is so funny because they don't realize that they, the following that they have gained in the past like 16 months has been these psychopaths.

And so they're like going around being like, hey, guys, what are we doing here? I mean, we're nicer than that. And like, Henn gets this response from Sharon Collective. Oh, look, another as a Jew cuck groveling for approval from people who would march him to his own execution with a smile. The creators of no other land whitewashed Hamas atrocities spread blood libel against Israel and ran for and ran PR for terrorists. But sure, let's pretend this is some noble, quote, hard conversation. and not outright anti-Israel propaganda. Empathy isn't a zero-sum game.

Tell that to the Israeli children, burned alive in their own homes. Tell that to the parents shut for the da-da-da. Tell them from this and that and the other. There's no other land for Palestinians. Damn right there is. It's called anywhere else. P.S. You're a bitch.

So. Sorry, I like, I find this so delicious because actually, before I read who wrote that tweet, I still thought that was a Chen Mazig tweet. Oh, no. Because that's how that guy also talks sometimes. I mean, he loves to call everyone and as a Jew and say people are marty.

I mean, that's the whole thing. Those are his talking points that are now being weaponized against him. Right. I mean, he is an Israeli government propaganda. So it's like, it's so rich that they're all of a sudden trying to be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Hey, not us. Right. They're like, hey, guys. It's the beautiful thing about the slope that these guys are trying to stand on pretending that it's even no it always tilts to the right

and if you're scrambling trying not to tumble down to the rightward side of it you're exerting a lot of unnecessary and fruitless energy and it's just not authentic because ultimately the end

the end logic of Zionism is the Jabotinsky argument he was always the more honest among those leaders he came out and said it and you can hear it there's a kind of relaxation in just coming out and saying fuck it we're colonizers yeah no colonized people have ever not stubbornly resisted whether they were civilized or not civilized he said all this you know it's it's it's just like you know stop pretending for the goium it's yeah it's the dishonesty of it that i think is like

you know uh funny to point out because you just see the exact same weapon i talking points that have been weaponized against that hen has weaponized against you know people like us or you know fucking anyone else who criticizes israel it just flipped right back at them because these right wing psychopaths are like shut up stop stop carrying water for you know these fucking anti-sumites anti-Israel people and uh there's it's one of the reasons why i love liberal zionists is just like you know they don't have the capacity to accept what their belief system's end point is. They don't want to because then it's like it makes them feel like they're bad and they can't be bad because they're

good. You know what I mean? I do because I'm actually sitting here thinking right now like this is the exact reason why I stopped being a liberal scientist because I, you know, when I initially began questioning the things I was saying, I was like, guys, we must be better than this. Like, you know, can we just talk about some of these things? Like, is there space in our community to honestly grapple with these things? And everyone was like, no. No, absolutely the fuck not. Why would you think that?

You are an enemy. Yeah. Yeah. But I guess I just think like I'm, I mean, these two people in particular, I'm like, these are people who are propagandists for the state, who are advocates of what the state is doing. Yes. And so it's, it's, I mean, I think. I think it is revealing that there is still a stream in Hasbara that is trying to project this, this image to the world of like a moral Israel, a liberal moral Israel that did a liberal moral genocide that wasn't a genocide.

Yes. But it's it's very clear to their own followers what this project is actually about and people don't want to like play nice about it anymore. So it's interesting like who are they still doing this for? Yeah. Yeah. I honestly think that a lot of this is just a, it's scrambling. They're confused because they're like, okay, wait, wait, wait. If Hollywood is, you know, giving an award to this thing, we need to, you know, as liberals,

we, for the most part, at least in theory, agree with Hollywood liberalism. You know, all of these, like Blake and Hen, they're 100%. like liberal, you know, or at least, you know, on the outside, liberal people who like love Westerners. Westerners. Yeah, exactly. And so, like, they can't do the thing which a lot of these, like, right-wing Zionists have done, which is like, no, well, whatever, fuck them.

They're all, you know, they're all cucks anyways. Maga, maga, maga. Like, they can't be that, you know? And so, I don't know. I think, like, part of them is going, like, can we just stop, can we stop making this an issue? Because it's embarrassing for us. the fact that they, can we just ignore that they won an award and like maybe even, you know, be like, hey, at least they didn't go up there and call it piss real, you know,

like we should be grateful for that. But, you know, honestly, it's the, I mean, this is the bed that they've made and these are, they're bedfellows. And so you have, just, last thing is, I just want to read, someone wrote after Sharon Collective's big rant, right? Are you serious? calling Henmet Mazig an azjou, be for real. And Sharon Collective Road also called him a cuck bitch. I just really enjoyed that. Listen, Hen, you are now officially invited on the Baddha's Barra podcast. Please come on. Tell us, tell us all about, you know, how you've changed and that, you know,

Israel is an apartheid state. I mean, certainly it seems he agrees with that, you know. He agrees that Israel is an apartheid state that Israel's doing a genocide, right? Seems like it. A few more. Let's wait a few more award season cycles. I'm just going to go out there and say it.

Henn Mazzig believes in ending Israel. And he's saying, from the river to the sea, Palestine must be free. I didn't say it. He did. And we welcome him to the fold. You know, it is, it's just, it's always good to have more allies.

and we'll get him on this podcast to say all those things. I'm just kidding. I'm not actually going to bite head and to see him on the podcast. Yeah. So anyways, those were all, that's all that. And I think that's been a podcast. What do you guys think? That's been a podcast.

No one answers me fast enough. I think we did it. I think we did it. All right. I think it's been a podcast. Simone Zimmerman, thank you so much for coming on and talking with us. Thank you for coming to the studio in person. Honestly, always a pleasure.

It's better when we are together. I agree. We're better together. And I'm going to turn on the air conditioning soon so we can, we can, it's getting, it's also a very, you know, it's a soundproof room. So it's very hot in here right now. Daniel, you've been here. You sweat it next to me. You understand.

I'm doing okay actually. Oh, are you? I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm you sweated on me and I haven't washed that part of my body. Since. Damn. That's crazy that you haven't. I'm not going to finish the bit. Simone, where can people find you on the internet? I'm on, I'm still on Twitter and I am on Instagram. The handle is Simone R. Zim. All right. Check out Simone Zimmerman. A great account to follow and great person. Thank you so much for coming on Bad Hesbar.

Thank you again for having me. I love it here. I love it too. Drown.com slash badass barra, badasbara at gmail.com for all your questions, comments, and concerns. All right, everyone. Thanks again so much for listening. And until next time, from the river to the sea. And the Oscar goes to for Best In-Person podcast guest, Simone Z. Hey. Hey.

Jumping jacks was us. Push-ups was us. Godmaga us. All karate us. Taking Molly us. Michael Jackson, us, Yamaha keyboards, us, charge of ink on us, Andor was us, Keith Ledger Joker us, endless bread success, Happy Meals was us, McDonald's was us, being happy us, Bequam yoga us, eating food, us, breathing air, us, drinking water us. We invented all that shit.

Yeah.