Bad Hasbara - The World's Most Moral Podcast - [UNLOCKED] 179: Peace in the Middle West, with Kat Abughazaleh

Episode Date: February 9, 2026

Matt and Daniel are joined for a three-peat by IL-9 Democratic House Primary Candidate Kat Abughazaleh to talk disguised AIPAC campaign funding, the puzzling effort to cast the latest Epstein revelations as “boring,” and the quaint, School Ties-adjacent anti-semitism feared by our nation’s football-and-handjob elites.Please donate to https://gazadirect.com/Kat For Illinois: https://www.katforillinois.com/Kat for Illinois Discord: https://discord.com/invite/katforillinoisNew Bad Hasbara Merch: https://estoymerchandise.com/collections/bad-hasbara-podcastSubscribe to the Patreon https://www.patreon.com/badhasbaraWhat’s The Spin playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/50JoIqCvlxL3QSNj2BsdURSkad Skasbarska playlist: http://bit.ly/skadskasbarskaSubscribe/listen to Bad Hasbara wherever you get your podcasts.Spotify https://spoti.fi/3HgpxDmApple Podcasts https://apple.co/4kizajtSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/bad-hasbara/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

My bitch, a taco salad, Us, bar, Suss. Hello, everybody, and welcome

to Bad Hasbara. The world's most moral podcast. That's right. My name is Matt Lieb. I will be your most moral

co-host for this podcast. I'm Daniel Mate. Back at it again in the second seat. That's right. Of the most morality. That's right.

Second seat on screen, first seat in my heart. Oh, just so you know. chair. First chair violinist. I didn't have anything. Give us five stars in a review on all of the apps and which you can do that. Happy Friday to those of you who are listening to this on Friday and or happy Saturday morning to those of you who are listening on Saturday on patreon.com. If you are a patron, you get an extra episode every single week, a double dose of these two guys.

who doesn't want that, right? Anyone? Anyone not want that? Why not double your pleasure? Double your fun. We are the double-mint twins of anti-Hasbaris podcasting. I like that. We are that.

We're the double-mint twins guys. Were the twigs? Did Twix do twins too? Probably not. Probably, though. I'm sure some of their commercials did, yeah. I'm sure they tried to rip off double-mint-gum. Where's double-mint-gum now?

No one knows. I believe they were in the Epstein file. Rigglies, believe it or not. Shout out to producer Adam Levin on the ones and two. Subscribe to us on all of the podcast apps and on YouTube. Yeah, and get yourself a shirt. We have shirts at the merch store. We have a merch store where we sell exactly two shirt.

We have two designs, and that's all we need in order to feel like we're doing our duty as content creators. today's sponsor is gaza direct.com. GazaDirect.com features a rotating list of fundraising campaigns for destitute Palestinians in Gaza, collected from across various crowdfunding sites and gathered in one place to help highlight campaigns in need of attention and help donors find efforts to support. Are you someone out there who is a donor? Are you someone sitting on money going, I want to give? but I don't know where to give. Well, that's what GazaDirect.com is for.

You go there, you find people, campaigns, families who need the money, and you can directly donate to those people. So go to gazaDirect.com right now and do that. Thank you. Daniel, what's this been? Well, homie, just a few, like really cool, weird, unique great albums, like sort of real one-of-a-kind albums that I've got my hands on recently or

found in my collection. Number one, ever heard of this group, the Roches? No. Maggie, Terry, and Susie Roach, Roche, or three sisters. Suzzy? Yeah, it's Susie, but she pronounced it's Susie. That's, and this is them, and they're sisters from New Jersey, I think, and this is their debut album. I think they were a duo for a while, but then their sister Terry joined them. Anyway, it's a brilliant album, beautiful vocal harmonies. I first heard of these ladies when they guessed it on Tiny Tune Adventures. Remember that show? Of course, I remember Tiny Tune Adventures. You're kidding me. I grew up on that shit. Okay, so there was an episode with them as a three singing cockroaches called The Roaches. I remember this. Yeah. Look at that. Okay. And this album,

I cannot recommend it highly enough. It's absolutely just gorgeous, funny. Three-part harmony, but like with a lot of wit and beauty to it. So yeah. I love it. Yeah, for sure. The Roach's self-titled album. And then Nourished by Time, who I featured before,

my brother Aaron put me onto this guy, this is his new album, The Passionate Ones. It's one of the most beautiful albums I think I've ever heard. He plays and writes and sings everything. Multi-intramentalist, huh? Quite the instrumentalist, multi-intramalists, yeah. And it's just beautiful, beautiful songwriting. And it's R&B, but he's got this low kind of baritone to him.

And he harmonizes himself. And it's rare to hear a low-voiced man doing harmonies with himself, especially in a lot of R&B, like it tends towards tenors. But this guy's voice is incredible. Talking about a baritone? We're talking about a baritone up in this place? Talking about a baritone, yeah. I love a good baritone.

dude. Isn't it? I love it. Oh. Yeah. Have you ever listened to like the righteous brothers and then you realize, oh shit, there was a time where people had that baritone voice. You know, back when men were men, you know?

Yeah. Back when America was great. That's right. The most soulful music you were allowed to listen to on the radio were two white men. Who were righteous. Who were righteous. Yes. They are.

Righteous brothers. They're righteous brothers. Two white men named the righteous brothers. To be fair, I believe that the lore behind that is that they used to play, you know, obviously like a lot of black clubs. And their audience was mostly black. And someone shouted from the stage, you guys are righteous brothers. A couple of righteous brothers. A couple of righteous brothers, yeah.

Yeah. I love that. Morphine is a group that I'd forgotten about. Yeah. It's a power trio without a guitarist. bass, drums, and baritone sacks, or like, tenor sax. Yeah, Barry Sacks and other saxes. So just a really cool, low, slinky, jazzy, bluesy country feel, but like also alt rock.

Yeah. Really unique. First ever record by the, this is their second album, but the descendants. Oh, hell yes. California punk rockers. Yeah. I don't want to grow up. Great.

Incredible weird, cool punk music. Fucking great. The Gala Soul's latest album, Cabin in the Sky, is so beautiful. It's a tribute to Dave who died about, I think, is it three years ago now? They're a third member, but this album is great. Giancarlo Esposito's on it. What? Yeah, Gus.

Doing what? He just doing like a, it does an intro skit. Oh, hell, like a roll call of all the other guests. Nas, Slick, Q-Tip, Killer Mike, Common, Black Thought, whole lots of people. Joan Arma Trading. British, I believe she was British, is British. This is a really cool self-titled album. I also like her because her name is one letter away from arms trading.

Oh, yeah, that is fun. And we love arms trading. We love arms trading. Stove God Cooks, Coke rapper. I forget where he's from, but man, this is good shit. And it made me think... I'm sorry, his name is Stove God Cooks. Yeah.

And the name of the album is Coke rapper? No, reasonable drought. Okay. But like Coke rappers, like him and the Griselda guys, like Benny the Butcher and Conway the Machine and West Side Gun. There's something about this subgenre of like Coke rap that's actually lends itself to real beautiful, epic, cinematic poetics. I don't think I know this genre.

Yeah, I recommend it. It's Coke wrap, yeah. Me, I'm a horror core guy. That's all I like when it comes to hip-hop. It's that or, you know, old-timey stuff. But even my old-time shit is horror core, like bone thugs. I like it. Yeah, I mean, fucking I, city morgue is really good.

Like, these are like they, people who rap about ghosts. And it sounds gangster, but then you realize they're talking. about like, what if my ghost killed your ghost? And you're like, wait, I don't think any of these guys are doing any crimes. I guess the ghetto boys' mind playing tricks on me is kind of a horror course song. Yeah, it's in there. It's in that... You're going crazy.

You're seeing hallucinations and everything. Yeah. Anyway, a couple more here. Bill Evans' trio. Adam, we're moving on quickly. Bill Evans' trio, the album, is Exploration's amazing jazz piano player. Very unique. And finally, I rewatched this movie last night. And man o' man,

did it make me miss the filmmaker once known to me as Wes Anderson the Great? Because fucking Rushmore as a film is absolutely perfect. And the soundtrack is absolutely perfect. It's got the kinks. It's got Kat Stevens and John Lennon and then The Who and of course

lots of Mark and Wothersbaugh from Devo. And this film, I don't know. I don't know how you feel about Wes Anderson, but I feel like after this film everything got a little too miniature, too tight, too obsessive compulsive. In this film, you've got the nice Misan, you've got the nice directorial specificity

but it's also on a wider canvas and he lets his actors relax a little bit and it's not so fucking diaramaed. He kind of became a parody of himself a little bit and so I and every time I'm just one of those I'm an OG West Anderson

hater. It's not that I hate his movies. I just have never felt any emotional attachment to them. I haven't I haven't since this one really Yeah. I like this one's about an obsessive. That was great.

Yeah, I probably need to rewatch that. You should watch that one. That one's good. It's fun. It's like, you know, weird animation.

George Clooney, right? George Clooney, playing a fox. What could be better? I loved it. But everything else is dog shit. PT Anderson all the way sands the Israel stuff.

I don't know if he's like an Israel guy, but I just know that, you know. Johnny Greenwood. Johnny Greenwood, you know, Leo, maybe. It's just,

why does politics have to ruin everything I love? But that's the thing about politics is you find new things that you love. Yeah. Well, that's, and that's enough pop culture because we're about to talk politics. That's right. Welcome to hell, everyone. And we have a wonderful guest today, a returning champion, an OG of the Bad Hasbarra Canon. She is a Palestinian American, but not only is she a Palestinian-American.

and she's also a candidate for the ninth congressional district of Illinois. You can do both now? You can be both of those things? New rules, baby. New rules. New rules. Welcome back to the podcast, everyone. Kat, Abu Ghazale.

Thanks for having me back, y'all. I didn't get to tell you guys this, but for our kickoff event, someone, this woman and her mom came because they heard me on this podcast and we're like, well, we need to come to this kickoff event and we charged not an entrance fee but pads and tampons and so they brought a bunch of boxes of tampons which went to the Chicago period collected. Oh, that's amazing. Oh, look at this. If you're listening to this, I forget your name, but I do remember you. That's amazing. I love, you know what? I love that. I love the real world effect that we have for our guests of this podcast. You know, we a few times have heard people go, hey, people recognize me from my appearance on this podcast.

and I'm like, that's crazy because I only ever get recognized for other things that I do. It sounds like I'm talking about porn, but I'm not. I'm talking about like, good mythical morning and shit. That's what I'll get recognized for. And every time I'm just like, listen, I know that I'm good on that show, but have you seen my Israel stuff? And that's when they run away screaming. Well, the next time someone, and I include in that cohort, the voices in my own head,

accuse me of making no difference in the world with this podcast, I'll say, well, did you know that I played a small role in the more equitable distribution of menstrual products to those in the... That's right. Made an actual difference in people's lives. Those things are expensive. They really are. It's another tax on the female. It's messed up.

So, Kat, I'm so excited that you're back here. From the last time, obviously, that you were on this podcast from then until now, you have become. this, a candidate for, for Congress in Illinois, and also a sort of a national figure. You have been one of, I would say a cohort of a few but, but strong, a strong few, an anti-Zionist or critical of Israel candidates within the Democratic Party. And that's got to be cool, right? Yeah. It's, I mean, this has definitely been, I think, I can, safely say one of these strangest non-incumbent house campaigns.

At least this year, if not for a long time. In what way? Federal indictment, part of that. Yeah, that's right. I heard about that. Additionally, as you just mentioned, I'm very proudly Palestinian.

I had a lot of people complain because my kofia was hanging on the back of the wall of my launch video. People were like, do you think she did that on purpose? Yeah. I love that. The Chicago GOP. Is that a dog whistle? Is that a dog whistle?

No, like get one. It's a good scarf. It's functional and also I'm fucking Palestinian. What's wrong with you people? Did you mean to spell your last name that way? Have it come from where it comes from? And we also had a Republican give me a prison gift bag with holy water in it. That was fun.

I'm not sure if y'all were tuned in for that. It's been a weird time. No, I did not know about that. The HHS posted about me. Yeah. Yeah. And we've been feeding a lot of people, clothing a lot of people and reaching a lot of people. And yeah, it's fun.

It's been a really amazing campaign to watch. I've been very excited for you. I do want to talk about your indictment. You are currently under indictment. This is for your protest activity outside of Broadview Detention Center in Chicago. And while you were protesting, one thing that happened was these psychopaths assaulted you. The ICE themselves. seemed to assaulted you.

Was it Ice who threw you down, by the way? I mean, fuck, if I know, they don't have any identifiers on them. That's true. It could just be some guy who put on a mask and went to, you know, spirit Halloween to get his cold duty outfit. It could be Jake Lang, the right-wing psychopath who does that. And so after this moment, you know, when I had heard there was some legal issues happening, I think my automatic assumption was that you like, oh, I guess she's pressing charges.

Instead, I found out that no, you were arrested and are now under indictment for this. Can you tell me the status of that? Yeah, so fun fact about that video, that's actually the third time that ICE has thrown me. They really like throwing me and they like dragging my friend. For some reason, they only hold me by my chest, but not my friend who's a guy. That's weird. Coincidence probably. been like gassed and pepper sprayed and you hit with batons and all of this shit.

But the indictment itself, I can't get into a lot of specifics of the case, but we just had a status hearing. We have a trial date for May 26th. This is a very clearly political prosecution. It's also all BS. Like we pled not guilty. They misspelled my name three times in the indictment. It's spelled nine times.

So they couldn't even copy and paste. Wow. Yeah. I mean, you know, kudos to them. for not using chat GPT, I guess. I mean, we'll see. Chat GPT has also misspelled my name, which is wild. Oh, I love that.

I didn't know that. The future. AI was that useless. I figured they at least had that one part down. So, yeah, can you tell me about ice activity in Chicago as of late? Because it seems like right now, at least in the region, obviously all the eyeballs are on Minnesota and what's happening, you know, specifically Minneapolis. What's happening in Chicago? And what's up with these northern cities being the target of this? Like, are there that many

Canadians, like, paralyzing your communities? Yeah, it's crazy because CBP's jurisdiction stretches 100 miles from any international border and that includes like Lake Michigan and the ocean. So like every major city is under their jurisdiction. Wait, including the sovereign nation of Canada and Mexico? Is that within their jurisdiction? I mean, fuck if I know with this administration. Yeah, probably at this point. So we were really hit hard by ICE this summer and this fall for Operation Midway Blitz. You know, it's been an escalation city after city.

First, it was in L.A. Then they came to Chicago. And the only reason this is Minneapolis is because this is where they chose to do their next escalation. Like all of their reasons for doing this are excuses. and they're targeting blue cities, but especially the reason that it's not working in New York is because it's so dense. This is another plug for walkable cities,

because when you have walkable cities, you have more eyes, and it's a lot harder to kidnap your neighbors when there's always someone around. Shout out to Jane Jacobs. I've been listening to the audiobook of the death and life of American cities, a classic from the 1960s, about just that, about urban planning and about what makes us,

city a city is streets and street traffic and foot traffic and people looking out for each other and all of this shit and it goes it flies in the face of like Robert Moses logic which is like you know build highways through it and and and gated communities and all this kind of shit so I mean what an amazing what an amazing case study for what she was arguing back in the early 60s which is exactly I would like to go a step further when it comes to walkable cities and and make them, I want barricadeable cities. I want like pre, you know, the second Napoleon who went and decided to widen all the avenues in Paris so they couldn't do the barricades anymore.

I want like, you know, 17. Yeah, 1789 Paris-ass cities. I want shit so close together. Avenues so tight that you can just put a trash can there and no one can get through. That's what I want. I want buckets. I want everyone in home. I want everyone to not be able to leave.

But, yeah, I mean, like, I do think that, like, part of city planning is responsible for, you know, whether or not you can carry out a successful revolution, be it political or otherwise. Yeah, absolutely. And, I mean, in Chicago proper, like, it's a lot denser. I live in Rogers Park, which is super walkable. I don't own a car. I walk to the campaign office. I mean, now people pick me. up because it's like a five-minute walk, but it's cool the shit. But like at all hours of the day,

there'd be people out patrolling the streets with whistles, like Chicago really revolutionized, like using whistles to fight ice. And then further in the suburbs, we would see instances of like security cameras behind a restaurant where like when a barback or a busboy goes out, they're kidnapped and you don't have as many people around you to even witness it. Like you can be on the phone. And it's a problem. It's the reason that, you know, the more. visible things are usually the things that happen in like a city proper, but it's also the reason that like they're going after places that the densest city in the country is New York City. Yeah.

It's a lot easier. It's not obviously as easy as they'd like it to be, even in Chicago or even in Minneapolis, even as we have like the best bus system in the country here, they are counting on eyes not being out. And it's kind of like when the Nazis bombed London, they really counted on people's morale dropping. And instead it just doubled down. Those upper lips got

upper lips got stiffer. They got so fucking stiff. It was crazy. And it's the same thing here. Like they came in and they thought they could break us down. They thought they could tear gas children. They thought they could beat us physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually.

And instead we said, fuck you. You're not taking our neighbors. I saw this post yesterday. That was like first they came for a neighbor. And I said, fuck you. That's my neighbor.

Go away. And that's what it's been like up here. Yeah. I mean, seeing it has been obviously really inspiring. Seeing the anti-ice protests throughout the country have been really awesome to see. And it's awesome for you to be a candidate who is not only, you know, loudly and proudly anti-ice and, you know, literally under indictment for your opposition to the, you know, brown shirts of our era. But also being a Palestinian American who is also fighting for. for rights for Palestinians, both in America and abroad.

And it's cool to see. And obviously, you're getting attacked a lot by APEC. And I want to talk a little bit about the sort of like secret APEC, like super PACs that have been creating these ads throughout various primaries, trying to get rid of candidates who either don't take their money or who publicly condemn the money that they had previously taken. There is, I think... Well, my money's too good for you.

Yeah, I mean, essentially. That's seen in a Bronx tale, you know, with Chasse Pomeroy. Yes. There's a group, like you've seen some A-PAC cutout spending in your race through a group called elect Chicago women. That means that the scene for you? Yes, please, can you? So we have, I think now it's 16 candidates in my race.

I think someone dropped out. Throughout this race, I've consistently been polling either tied for first in the first independent poll of this race and the only one we've seen or within the margin of error for second. So that's me and the mayor of Evanston in those one and two spots. And then state senator Laura Fine, who is firmly backed by APEC as a distant third, but still possible, especially with a shit ton of A-PAC money. And is there a runoff with that many candidates?

No, and it's not even, like there's not a runoff, it's not ranked choice voting. Whoever wins this could win with 20% of the vote. There are essentially three viable candidates in this race, me, the mayor of Evanston, and Laura Fine. And I am the only one of those three candidates that has not met with and submitted a position paper to A-PAC. Yeah. Amazing.

And Laura Fine is much more extreme than my other opponent. And I met him on evolving on some of the, his positions, but like still in that position paper, it talks about federal anti-BDS legislation supporting the 2016 Memorandum of Understanding. Like I love when people evolve their positions, but this was less than a year ago. Yeah. It's a little bit, I wouldn't even meet with APEC in the first place, you know? Right.

But yeah, so APEC has been sending out emails on behalf of Laura Fine. She swore that she wasn't taking AAPC money. There's one where they call me like this radical because I support the ICC. because I condemn Israel killing tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians and because I what was the third thing? Oh, I support Palestinian sovereignty. And they were like, if we don't act now, she could win. I asked Laura about it in a forum like three days ago.

And she was like, I don't know what you're talking about. I thought that email was bad. And I was like you were, you've been traveling the country for fundraisers hosted by the head of APAC. You can call him. And she goes, why don't you call him? And I said, well, I don't have his number. Oh, nice, beautiful. This is, but this is how APEC does it because they know they're toxic now.

So they create, first off, they ask donors to donate as individuals, not just straight up A PAC money. So that way it doesn't seem as sketchy and it's harder to see. But you can see in her EPC reports donations from tons of Republicans like Trump donors. Yeah. And then they also set up these packs that Citizens United has allowed where they have an innocuous name like elect Chicago women because who doesn't want to elect the Chicago women. men, you know? Yeah, that sounds great. I love electing Chicago women. I love electing Chicago women. With that weird accent, the nasly A, that's cool. Coombs amongst us, you know? Humes amongst us doesn't love that. And they've already, just this week, they put in ads for hundreds of thousands of dollars on ads on

broadcasting cable and are on track to spend maybe 10 million up to 15 in this race. We have one of those ads right here. I just want to play it for me. Rated one of Illinois's most effective legislators, Laura Fine took on the insurance industry, passing dozens of laws to stop health insurance company ripoffs. She went toe to toe with the gun lobby, passing an assault weapons ban. And when Donald Trump unleashed ice agents on Chicago, Laura Fine championed the law to unmask ice and hold them accountable. Laura Fine, the fighter we need to stop Donald Trump. ECW is responsible for the content of this ad. So that is elect Chicago women.

She keeps her friends close and her enemies donors even closer. Right. Exactly. Exactly. And it's just funny watching this like ad because you're, you know, these donors are, many of them are just out and out Trump donors. And, you know, with elect Chicago women, we don't know, obviously, because it's a super pack, it's dark money.

We don't know who the donors are in particular, but her, you know, claim to not know the origin of these smears against you when, yeah, when obviously this super pack, this dark money pack is putting money directly into her campaign without her approval, I suppose. I mean, it sounds a little far-fetched. I'd love to see a second city or, you know, some Chicago, you know, comedy troupe do a sketch with, you know, past. over at the fine extended family residence where Laura's there trying to host like a liberal Zionist kind of thing, whatever, and then cousin Randy bursts in, you know. Like the Kool-Aid man?

The Kool-Aid man. It turns out that like, yeah, the fines are just a dysfunctional family and they but the only thing they all have in common is they're down with Israel. Yeah, it's genocide. That's a thing is like, no relation, I think.

It takes so much to ask her in a Do you support unconditional aid to Israel? And that's not on her website. And it took all of us as opponents asking repeatedly, despite the moderator saying, can we move on? We're like, no, no, no, no, no. We want the answer to this. All of us want this. Right.

For her to agree to that. In another forum, she said, you know, we need a two-state solution between Israel and Gaza. What happens to the West Bank? That's crazy. Just like, well, no, okay, now you want another? that's a third state. That's a third state. We can't keep adding states.

States to the solution. I mean, yeah, of course, you know, this is one of those litmus tests that I think a lot of, especially A-PAC people, but a lot of just standard, you know, Democrats are pissed about because of the fact that this was not a litmus test. You didn't have to stand on principle at one point when it came to this. You could spout off some liberal scientists. nonsense about a two-state solution between two, between one of them, not even a state. And no one would question you.

But now when you ask these very concrete questions, you know, about arms embargoes or about, you know, the right of Americans to boycott whomever they choose to boycott, now they have to answer concretely about this. And people like this, your opponent, I think, refused to do that. And it's kind of amazing. And the thing about anti-BDS legislation, which both of my opponents support, Illinois is the first state to pass it. It has robbed our public pension funds of millions of dollars. Oh, interesting.

I did not know that. Because when you have anti-BDS legislation, well, you have to, you know, boycott Unilever because Ben jerry's. You know, any company that even somewhat engages in BDS, we have to divest from them. And so our pension suffer. I did not. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? This is foolish of me to not know this.

But part of anti-BDS legislation is reverse BDSing someone who's doing BDS? Yes. I'm having a stroke. Yeah. Yeah. Me too. All the time. And like both of my opponents support that.

And that's a free speech issue for me. We don't do this for any other country. No. This is absolutely ludicrous. Like it's just, it's like taking away the Palestinian aspect, like that's so fucking insane to me. Yeah. It's, I mean, it is anti-American. If you are someone who, I don't know, defines part of Americanism as the ability to speak freely and to, I mean, shit.

Especially with your dollars. With your dollars, the whole goddamn thing. It's like vote with your, that's why we have shit like, you know, Citizens United. Yeah, I don't expect. Americans to exercise their right to free speech. Americans can barely string together a sentence. But in terms of spending money where they want or not spending money where they want, come on,

that's the eloquence of this country. I thought we loved capitalism. Right. That's the whole two-party system being a monoparty. It's like we're all neoliberal economic shills, right? Isn't that how we work? It's nuts. And seeing obviously like the same kind of, you know, attack ads happening

in other races has been interesting. I know that in New Jersey, a really interesting race just happened in which these APEC basically they were funding the opponent of someone who like denounced their

or renounce their APEC donations and it backfired tremendously in that the person who ended up winning I think as of now it has been established that she got the votes. It's Anna Lila Mejia. Yeah. It looks like she won who is someone who is a more open critic of Israel.

And this was Apex's attempt to try to punish the person who was barely a critic of Israel. Well, it's because it's one of these things where people aren't just mad about the humanitarian aspect. They're mad because we can't survive. We can't afford to go to the doctor. We can't afford to buy a house. We can't afford to do any of this shit. And then we see children dying. And we have to be like, well, you know, it's got to be this way.

Right. We got to send billions upon billions upon billions of dollars. That's right. And there's nothing you can do about it. There's nothing you can do about it. And everyone agrees on it. So can we stop having this discourse? Everyone already agrees that we love this.

Yeah. Kat, one of your other opponents is, someone named Daniel Biss and just in terms of who your opponents are in the race it's always interesting. Have you tried running ads that say ignorance is Biss? Yeah, that's very good. Daniel

Al-Ghzali doesn't rhyme with shit, so. Yeah, that's right. You can't do anything with that. They're like, fuck, cat, fat, fat cat. So what's got put in, bots were calling me Cat Capone and I don't know where that came from, but. It doesn't even work. Like Al Capone doesn't, it doesn't work.

at all. But Daniel Biss, ignorance is Biss, this is a video that resurfaced recently, believe it's from 2023, that Track APEC recently brought our attention to. And I'd love to hear you talk a little bit about Track APEC

in their roles recently and all this, but let me just play you this video from your... Do you agree with the death of 30,000 Palestinians? I mean, do I support the right as the state of Israel to exist? Do I support every military action State of Israel, do I support death of Palestinians?

Yeah. Different questions. Oh, you can answer all of them. I don't have time. Yeah, well, I don't have time. Wow. Well, I don't have time to get into it. Let me take your straightforward question.

Mm-hmm. Pull it apart into three completely disparate questions that you didn't ask me. And then not answer them. And then not answer any of them. And also, I mean, laughing about, like, the deaths of 30,000 Palestinian. The immediate response to that being like, I don't know, not just laughter, but also condescension at even being asked the question. It just shows the kind of opponents that you're up against in this race. I mean, yeah, and like, look, I mentioned earlier that Daniel has evolved a lot of his positions, and I'm glad about that.

But this wasn't that long ago. you know he has never sent out a dehumanizing email about me i've been very clear about where i disagree with him on policy that's not a great look i hope that um his response would be different i don't personally as a human being but also as a Palestinian having the question if you condemn the death of 30,000 Palestinians and responding with do i think Israel has a right to exist those aren't even the same question these are just these are people not countries right but aren't they also sort of the same question. And that's kind of the interesting thing about it. That's a really good point. I didn't think about it that way, Matt. Yeah. I mean, this is something, of course,

that I'm sure Daniel would not admit to subconsciously doing here. But I mean, if the reliance on Palestinian death is what gives Israel its existence, its continued existence, then maybe he's not wrong for asking the question, although I don't think he would agree with my characterization of what I think it probably wouldn't either. And I think like there are a lot of solutions. I also don't think it's the United States's role to be like, you have to do this. And I think there should be people that actually live there. That's right.

But it's unfortunate. And it's unfortunate that this type of reaction and the type of stuff that Laura Fine is doing, which is even more egregious, is just kind of the norm. And out of the three candidates to have a chance of winning this race, that only one of them hasn't met with APAC. In fact, I have my bucket. Let's be APAC merch. Oh, hell yeah. Yeah. I love that.

Yeah. Well, I want to move on to something that's relevant to this because you, of course, are part of a young new crop of, like, people in politics who are, I would say, more representative of the, at least according to Democratic Party polling or polling, or polling of Democrats, more in line with the general sentiment of voters who, by and large, are like Israel is bad and doing bad things. Well, which makes you the perfect target demographic for Kamala Harris' new venture, the HQ thing. Headquarters 6-7, now headquarters 6-8.

Wait, they changed it to headquarters 6-8? Yeah, because they got so much shit for it. For the 6-7 joke? But didn't they deliberately do the 6-7 thing to try and pander? Yeah. It's awesome. It's so fucking cool.

I love it. I'm trying to imagine being like a social studies teacher to kids these days and trying to teach them about the six day war. Yeah. I just can't get it. Can't talk about it. Can't talk about the 67 borders. Can't talk about the war in 67.

Because kids are just losing their shit. They just keep doing this every time you mention the occupation of the West Bank and the Sinai. We were having like a very serious all team meeting. I was like there are 67 days left to to the race. And then like one of our fucking college fellows was. like six, seven. I was like, oh my God. It's crazy. You know, I want to talk shit and I want

to feel like I'm better than that, but every time someone talks about their wife, I say, my wife, because I can't help. Like, to me, my wife. It's a vocal stem. That's, it's a vocal stem. That's exactly what it is. I love, by the way, that

the Kamala HQ has already capitulated like immediate and not only that, they went from 6-7 to 6-8, which is literally, if you look at it, they are going, once again, capitulating to the right. And you couldn't even do the funny number. We need to push them one more to the right so that we can get some good, pure-al jokes.

And they were like, well, Elon won't let us do just headquarters. And I'm like, what if you weren't on Twitter, which is a child porn website now? If you don't have to be on here, you can get that at another website. Exactly. You don't have to do this. Speaking of the last thing you just said, websites and the specific type of content that may or may not be all over. Twitter, now owned by Elon Musk, who is also the subject of our next subject.

One of the reasons I think that you are refreshing and this new crop is refreshing is because all of you are not in the Epstein files. And that is nice. I never realized how nice that was until this release of millions of Epstein emails and documents and leaked audio. And I want to talk about that next with you, Kat. I would love to. I also expected a lot of people to be in the Epstein files. I don't think I expected this many people to be in the Epstein files. It is, it's quite, it's quite a lot.

It's to a degree where I'm just like, I don't even know, like, I don't even know if we have a guillotine big enough for all of these guys. Like, if you Google, I think if there's a Wikipedia page for something called super guillotine. Is your idea of a guillotine, like having a bunch of heads at one time? Well, no. Usually it's one at a time, but there's a thing called a super guillotine, which is just like very long with multiple head holes and a very, and a, you know, a blade that anyways, I don't believe it is feasible physics-wise. but it's an interesting sketch that you can see on Wikipedia. Anyways, there's so many people on the Epstein emails and files,

and it's been a really interesting time for this particular podcast, I'll say, because if you've read any of these files recently, you can't escape the fact that Epstein seemed to be closely working with the state of Israel. And even before the leaks, it was like pretty natural conclusion to reach because of obviously Jelaine Maxwell's father is Robert Maxwell. For those who don't know, Robert Maxwell is a sort of Israeli, you know, intelligence maher. Like he is literally there's a book written about him called Robert Maxwell, Israel's super spy. So obviously there's always been some sort of connection, but these emails now kind of confirmed that he was an Israel.

asset who facilitated like, you know, Israeli geopolitical and, uh, intelligence interests. And even there's like an informant who said something along the lines of, yes, he is a co-opted masad, massad agent and he trained as a spy under Ehud Barak. So for us, this is all, who's named, who's named by one of the victims, at least one of the victims as a brutal rapist. I mean, just an absolute, you know, sadistic. And then there's, and there's, there's also leaked audio of Barack talking to Epstein about the need to bring in

like basically higher quality white Jews. Right. Into Israel. And now Netanyahu is using that leaked audio to try to pander to his Mizrahi border base being like, see how these leftists think about you? Right. Who loves you?

Yes. It's been interesting to see because, you know, on the other side of this, you know, of course you have the Israeli angle, but then also, you know, you see this sort of like clear Jewish supremacist angle. I mean, ideologically, Epstein was a Jewish supremacist. He often spoke about the superiority of the genetic superiority of Jews, you know, with regard to their intellect, which I find personally funny because I'm dumb, but also because

of the fact that Epstein was like illiterate. A world-class midwit. He didn't think children should learn to read. Right, right. Wait, that's so sick. Also, could I just say, I'm going to say something really controversial. Oh, please. We should think any ethnicity, race, religion is superior to any other.

Whoa. That's messed up publicly right now. Well, that's racist. Somehow. Right. I'm sorry. Somehow that is anti-Semitic. I don't know how, but I'll figure out a way that is anti-Semitic.

But yeah, it is, you know, and for me, I always have felt like the Jewish supremacist angle of the Epstein controversy. kind of it's like I expect him to be a Jewish supremacist. You know what I mean? To me, that's not that weird. It's the whole being a, what do you call it, pedophile. Sorry, do you guys hear my daughter? As your daughter shrieks in the background.

That's unfortunate timing, Matt. I love you, baby. She really likes me as a thing. She wants to hang out with me. But yeah, the whole thing of him being, you know, a Jewish supremacist is obviously something that is also. Go away, honey. I'm talking about pedophilia right now. You can't be streaking outside the door right now.

It's a bad look. It sounds worse. My daughter doesn't have school today. So she is, I told her, I was like, I can't hang out today. I have to talk about a very bad man. She was like, I love Jeffrey Epstein. I want to talk more about him. Of course.

I find him interesting as a historical figure, which is why I know. That's right. She is oppositional defiance disorder. I'm pretty sure because at this point, I'm like, she's basically a Zionist. My three-year-old, she's just, everything is like, yeah, it's mine. And it's like, ugh, you know, that's not how it works, honey. So, anyways, the point is, is that only half of the Epstein files have been released less far, and there's millions more to come.

and the Hasbarosphere is in total fucking crisis over this. They have tried a million different ways to cope, and I kind of want to go through the coping mechanisms. I would love to. Yeah, it's really fascinating stuff. It really is. Deepak, Cobra. Yes.

Very good joke, by that. That's one of the most nauseating exchanges that I've seen, by the way. Like, for me, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, emails that turn my stomach the most, the Jewish supremacy stuff is just hilariously, horrifically, idiotic and laughable. But you got someone like fucking Deepak Chopra talking about how God is a construct, cute girls are real, just the casual sliminess of these men who, who live, no matter what they, I mean, Chopra is a spiritual teacher and a healer and all this. And it's just taken for, for granted that we are rich, we are men, we have our appetites, we have our peccadillos,

we have our tastes, and we deserve to rape people. We deserve to rape people and they are probably enjoying it because they deserve to be raped by us. Because, you know, it's, I mean, it's, that, that stuff is on, I can't satirize it. Like, that's the part where the bottom of my gut just falls out. You know, and of course, that, that's the stuff. that like being a man in the society it forces me to

look at aspects of how I've been acculturated and conditioned and all kinds of stuff. I love talking about the Jewish supremacy stuff. I love talking about the Israel stuff. I love talking about all that stuff because that stuff I can point at and say ha ha. So let's do that. There's like a lot of the far right though

is trying to pretend like on Laura Ingram's show saying like it's not a crime to party with Mr. Epstein and it's just like with ice. where you're pushing wildly unpopular things. Like, yeah, you might have been able to get through with propaganda to a few people. But like every woman has been at the very least sexually harassed, if not assaulted in some form. Everyone has some mom that they love that they saw in Renee Good with her body next to stuffed animals in her glove box. Like this is everyone has had a good Samaritan help them like Alex Preti that.

said, are you okay? And then they see it get shot instead. Like, this is not going to go away. Right. Especially this. Anyone who has kids, anyone who's ever been assaulted, anyone who has human dignity, anyone who's mad about inequality, anyone who's mad about, you know, this Epstein class where I covered the right and it's like, you know, they were not accidentally right, but like QAnon. I'm sitting here being like, wow, okay, the world is run by cabala pedophiles. I don't think they're drinking children's blood, but some of the other shit I've seen in there, at this point, I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah. It's, I feel insane talking about it.

And I thought that, you know, this is a lot of really well-connected rich men, but I didn't realize how far it went. Yeah. I am not handing it to Q&N. No, I know, of course not. That was by accidentally correct. Well, this is the problem. And in all the wrong ways. What's interesting about this is you realize this has always been the limitation of a right-wing race essentialist thinking.

Um, is that, you know, when, of course, they are vying for power, they're doing the Q&on thing, you know, uh, these elites are all in a secret cabal, you know, using cheese pizza as a code for sexual abuse and we hate sexual abuse. We all can agree on that. That's bad. We need to get rid of them and blah, blah, blah. Meanwhile, of course, they are, you know, their entire thing is white supremacy and, and racialized everything.

And then as soon as it comes out that they're, um, you know, the other racists that they support are, you know, implicated in that cabal, they immediately abandon, you know, any sort of moral high ground. And they go, no, no, no, this is, this is, don't worry about this. This story is, is not interesting at all. And the worst thing about Epstein is that he's Jewish in doing this. That's the angle. It's a Jew doing this.

No, it should be pure white people doing the cabal. We're called Jewanon now. Yeah, exactly. The right is also awful at, like, they're not smart like yeah they don't have to do like code words and like ship children through wayfair orders with like names on the cabinets right they can just say do you want to come over and rape little girls with me later yes yes because that's what they say and they misspell it a bunch too yeah and and you know i think we're all even shocked at that because of the fact that we thought

i mean at the very least a code but no they are open about it they they really are and you see that like it's caused a crisis amongst the right wingers who they're the ones who are openly anti-Semitic who are just like, can we just focus on the fact that he was Jewish and said Goyim a lot, as opposed to, you know, the whole president of the United States being a close, close friend of his, the amount of ties to, you know, not just the American intelligence state, but the Israeli intelligence state. No, they just want to talk about the Jewish supremacist angle because they only have one mode, which is race science mode. All right.

Show me some cope. But the cope is very interesting because you see on the other side of the sort of conservative sphere, the more Zionist side of it, you are seeing people who are seeing, who are trying to do damage control. And the way they're choosing to do damage control with this is great. Here's one from Andrew Fleischman who wrote, The Epstein story continues to be pretty boring. a bunch of wealthy older men wanted to sleep with young women who were of age.

I don't know where you get that from. They hung out together and had parties. Epstein slept with underage girls. Then he killed himself. I just, I love the, this is all kind of boring. Huh, guys?

Isn't that right? This is something Claire Lehman said, who's a writer for Quillette, goes, am I the only person who finds the Epstein story incredibly boring? And then right under that, Matt Taibi, who recently, I mean, dude, in the last three years, he's kind of, you know, outed himself at least, I mean, look, I believe he added himself a long time ago with the Twitter files at which he was directly essentially working for Elon Musk, who, by the way, is in the files. But very recently, you know, people, anyone who like gave him the benefit of the doubt and said he still has some left-wing cred, right?

when they would ask him about Israel, just complete silence, crickets. And he would pretend like, oh, I'm not smart enough. And eventually he just started going the other way and saying, doing Zionist talking points from the perspective of an aggrieved online guy who was just like, everyone's really annoying about Palestine, huh? Why can't we all just come together? Right. So he lost, you know, all of his whatever cred he had left was gone after that. And now the Epstein story comes out. Claire Lehman says, isn't this boring?

Am I the only person who thinks it's boring? And Matt's the E.B. He goes, no, I do believe it is boring. From the guy that put out the fucking Twitter files, the biggest nothing burger in the fucking world. And he's like, now, this is, this shit. This shit is. It's so funny watching that. And meanwhile, Claire has been, you know, obviously dragged on Twitter for all of this.

And, you know, she put out a, I think an article in Quillette. Maybe it was her substack. I'm not sure that it was called. Epstein mania on the digital borderlands. And it's essentially about the Epstein story being just one in a long line of moral panics. Trump literally ran on releasing this. Yes, I know. And guys, like, I'm sorry, but moral panic only works if there is nothing happening. It's not a moral panic if people are doing elites especially doing a fucking underage sex trafficking ring. That's just, that's actually immoral.

You should be panicking about that. In fact, more so you should be panicking about the fact that they're being covered for by the media and other elites. By you. And speaking of elites. Yeah, exactly. So my favorite reaction, speaking of elites, was but you. Unger Sargon being like, you know, only it's the elite who want you to care about this story.

The working class women and men of America don't care about Jeffrey Epstein. Oh, I have that. Do you have that here? Oh, yeah, yeah. I have that video. Check this out. This is Baja. Baja, the parole whisperer.

Yeah, there's Bata. Can I say I've also been on this show. Oh, you've been on this show? I've been on this show many times. And it's fucking insane some of the people that come on here. Like, Abby Phillip is a very, very, very, like, she was a great journalist. One time when I went on, she was one of the first people to speak out about, like, gods and children starving to death.

But, like, I remember this lady next to me was like, yeah, we should, schizophrenic should spend life in prison. And I was like, what? Yeah. No, CNN likes to have all sides on. And, yeah, this is Batia talking about the Epstein leaks. No, I'm just, okay, I just, I really agree with the president. I think that most Americans just do not care about this.

This has been an obsession of elites on the right. Put me as coach. On the left, elites on the right were obsessed with it when they thought they could use it to hurt leftists and now the left is obsessed with it because they think they can use it to hurt the right. I love this take. The elites are trying to keep your attention

on what the elites are doing. The elites want nothing more than for you won't see. more than for you to see the elites in the Epstein files. And I, Batcha, Angar, Sargon, have nothing to do with those elites. Yes, exactly. I am one of you. I agree with the president who is not an elite. No, famously not an elite.

Man of the people. I just, I love her attempt at like, you know, just a regular, you know, Joe six-pack on the street. He's not thinking about the Epstein files. When he sees the Epstein files, he goes, oh, what, the elites want me to pay attention? of some, you know, whack-a-do story. No, it's the elites are in a cabal together, not doing pedophilia, but blaming each other for pedophilia.

You have to, the only way you can make this make sense in your head is if you are already super pro-Israel, and you are just like, at this point, I'm immune to saying false things that are clearly contradictory. Yeah, and it's, it's, Great seeing this. Then, of course, you have, like, oh, yeah, Will Menacher said,

an expert on more hysterias. There are no fewer than several dozen pieces at Quillette about anti-Semitism on college campuses. Just pointing out, you know, Claire Lehman's moral panic argument, not holding water. But Douglas Murray wrote, how many voters really care about Jeffrey Epstein? Have you ever been there?

Have you ever been? On the island. To Epstein's Island. Yes. He's using the same. Have you ever been to Israel argument about Epstein's Island? You have to go there to really, you can't speak about Epstein's Island unless you've been there at a party, you know, meeting. I was there.

I was trusted enough that I was embedded there. I was embedded. It was a king-size embed. Yeah. And then finally that, yes, Batia Ungersargan, doing everything she can to try and minimize the story. Wait, wait, go back to that. Go back to that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.

Here it is right here. So just so we can establish this. No, the next one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got you. Yeah. So Jeffrey Epstein is the only person that slept with underage girls, despite there being complaints about the president auctioning off girls and trigger warning for anyone measuring their parts with his finger in front of people. So Jeffrey Epstein only abused girls, not women, not women, because they're underage, they're girls. There is no such thing as an underage woman.

And then he would farm them like cattle. So that way when they reached 18, everyone who was very morally worried about Jeffrey Epstein and his rape ring, they could finally do their own rape. Right. Yeah. Thank God. Don't you know that the age of the age of consent also magically heals all psychological and physical traumas born by all of the trafficking and grooming that happened up to the point of the age of consent? Like it's a magical, it's a magical moment in a young woman's life where she becomes a woman and instantly doesn't matter how she, you know, what happened to her before that we have to whatever happens to her and now she deserves it. And she agreed and she consented.

And it's crazy that their line is not being friends with a serial rapist who's. farming women like cattle, their line is sleeping with one of those girls before they turn 18. That sounds really real, awesome. Sick. Yeah. But, you know, she makes a great point. I mean, age of consent is important because at 18, you are, it is compulsory to consent. That's what happens.

The age of consent is when you are no matter what consenting. And like, here's the thing is like the victim's lawyer has been doing a lot of work to protect the victims and fucking Batya here is trying to take everything out of context saying this is the actual reality. Yes. And it's so clear. I mean, the fact that, you know, where you're seeing this, like, level of attack, where you are seeing people pushing back against the Epstein story, there are sure a couple of MAGA, you know,

people who are just like, you know, hardcore. If the president says he didn't do anything, then I'm for the president. But for the most part, where you're seeing it in media, especially. is amongst the pro-Israel right. And that is fascinating because you go, like, what is the connection here? And the connection is, of course, that this story not only implicates all of these,

like, celebrities and Deepak fucking Chopra and fucking just all of the scumbags that you've seen so far, Bill Gates, but it also implicates the Israelis. It implicates him as a Israeli intelligent asset. And that, to me, I think, is where you're, seeing this coordinated Hasbara campaign where they're trying to find an angle in which people will like, is there anything we can say to make you not care about this? Because this shit is only going to get worse. There's still millions of files. And you know, he's a master of that,

of course, is the master lawyer behind all of this is Alan Dershowitz. His statement here about who should really be ashamed of themselves. Oh, it's genius. On whom the onus of of condemnation really lies. Let's see what he has to say. Sure. The one point I do want to make is that I understand all the feminist groups and the radicals and think this is the worst thing in the world

that anybody ever had any contact with Jeffrey Epstein. Where are all those radical feminists when it comes to the Hamas rapes of young Jewish girls, sexual abuse, beheadings? They are quiet. They are silent. The incredible hypocrisy of the Me Too, movement.

Me too. The ghost of Andrea Dworkin has not once risen up from the grave and come into my bedroom and condemn him. Where are the radical feminists? Where is Mary Wollstonecraft now? As a radical feminist. Yes. I'm against rape.

Yeah. Well, then where were you when, you know, why? Then riddle me this cat. How come not one of the people giving Ellen Derschwitz an over the, the underwear massage on a private petal island ever said one anti-hamas thing to him. Huh? How come they never once condemned Hamas while he was getting a totally legal overage massage? I got to leave this podcast.

That's right. That's right. Got it. But yeah, I mean, it's just watching this. I love how now, like, condemning Hamas has graduated from, like, it used to be, like, the prerequisite for a Palestinian to speak. to their own experience. Right.

Living there, being bombed there, having murdered and massacred, or speaking about Palestinian suffering in any way. Now it's the prerequisite for a woman to seek justice, for anyone to seek justice for women and children, for sexually trafficked young people to try to expose the hypocrisy and depravity of billionaires and access capitalists and all this.

well have you condemned Hamas first because otherwise like it's that post that's like posting on Twitter I love waffles and so you hate pancakes know those are two separate topics right but the crazy thing about it is that like you know if someone says if you hate pancakes at least they're both talking about breakfast foods in this case the idea is

how come these feminists who are against Epstein doing pedophilia island life aren't condemning Hamas, you immediately have to ask a question, what does that have to fucking do with anything? And the answer, I think, is pretty clear based on the fact that it's all his bars who are saying this over and over. They are bringing Israel into this equation, and it's for very clear reasons. It's because it was an intelligence answer. Never mind the fact that there's many orders of magnitude more evidence of the kinds of sexual violent crimes that were talking about in the case of Epstein, then there is to pin, you know, some kind of, some kind of

strategic, concerted mass rape thing on Hamas on that one day. Right. I mean, there's, you know, it is like there's literal victims going on and talking about their experiences and you're, and you are someone who's saying like, well, what about those, you know, other thing? And to me, I just look at that and I go, like, this is, you are, you know, I think you're, you're doing. doing a lot to doth protest too much. You know what I mean? It is very clear that there is an angle here. Now, obviously, I do think that Dershowitz is also defending himself with a classic. This is anti-Semitism to say that I ever was on an island with pedophiles. No, but two things here. First off, it just seems more effective to ignore it.

Like, I wasn't, when he was talking about allegations, why would you even bring up Israel? Right. Like, because you're just tying it in for no reason. Uh, second, it's just so fucking disgusting how rape and sexual assault is used as a weapon for racism, for discrimination and for not just like using especially women victims, but also exploiting them and also punishing them. Like, I have had people come out to me expecting a fight when they're like, so what's your position on Israel and Palestine. I'm like every civilian should be safe. Like no child should

starve. Every war criminal should be held accountable. Guess what? That includes rape, which is something that often happens in war because men do war. And that's something that we should actually punish. And they're like, oh, well, that seems like it makes sense. And it's like, yeah, but when so many people in power and we did this, the United States did this against black folks. Like, every rape is used as a way to evoke a visceral reaction of well I'm not my woman can't be sullied

like that. And it's so fucking disgusting especially when there are actual victims. It's really victims as well that deserve justice and that deserve to heal from their trauma and not being used as a fucking prop for racism. Yes.

Shoshana Shwebel or Shwebel, She is an account that I follow on Twitter wrote something that I thought was really astute. And this was based on sort of this ex-Hamas hostage, Miehsham, who was not assaulted in captivity while she was a captive of Hamas, but rather by an Israeli after the fact. And apparently no charges are being filed due to lack of witnesses. I mean, basically, like, they are, the Israeli, you know, state is failing this rape victim because she was, you know, allegedly assaulted by another Israeli. And Shoshana wrote this excellent tweet where she said, the most common social objection to rape is not the act itself, but the possibility of rape. racialized others doing it to the in-groups women.

In desperate racist societies, rape functions mostly as a rhetorical device to stoke existing racial violence. And I was like, that is spot on exactly right. You see how sexual assault is being weaponized, not in terms of the actual act of doing it, which is what is being, you know, claimed vociferously by the New York Times, at least at one point. but by the people, but rhetorically, by people who are using the claims in order to stoke racialized violence. I mean,

and like the Nazis said this against Jews. And like the far right in America is doing that against Jews right now. Talking about miscegenation and all of these things. And it's like. Yeah. It's crazy. It's so fucked up. Yeah.

It drives me fucking nuts. And then with the Epstein shit, it's like, I saw someone say like, well, yeah, the victims need justice. But like, once again, it's not a crime party with Epstein. Right. Yeah. And it's, yeah, you're just like sitting here and you're going like, where, where is the organic actual outrage about this? Instead, it's like you are seeing sort of a media blitz on it to either only talk about it in a very specific form and which is about, you know, using it as a rhetorical device against the political enemies such as, I mean, the Democrats are doing that now. against the right. And obviously, the right did do that against the left in the lead up to the election. Trump constantly talked about the Epstein files. But now that these things are coming out,

there is no honest accounting of what's happening here. Instead, it is just, you know, political parties are using this as a rhetorical device against each other. And so Batya Unger Sargon could go on and say like, see, it's a nothing burger. This is just people throwing a, you know, rape accusations at each other. It's so crazy. You could have millions of documents and people still won't believe women. Yes, it is, it's wild. It is absolutely wild.

But yes, this is the cope that they're trying to do. And I will say to the credit of most people I know, no one is buying this bullshit. Everyone wants to know what is happening. We want to see the redactions, unredacted, except for obviously the names of the victims. and we want accountability on this shit. It is fucking insane. And at this point, if you cannot admit to yourself that we have a completely complicit political class, I mean, shit, we already, if genocide didn't convince you, maybe a cabal of pedophiles on an island doing bipartisan sexual assault, maybe that'll do it. for you. Maybe that'll be enough for you to decide to shake this fucking political culture like an

etch-a-sketch and start over. And this is Corruption 101. You can't be executing people in the street, starving them, making sure they can't have a roof over their head, making sure their education is worse, making sure they can't go to the doctor, doing all of this shit. And then also, also have a powerful pedophile ring on a private island. At least give us health care. At least give us health care because people will like, we're already mad. And then you also have this. Like, this is like, don't get overthrown 101. Yeah, yeah, I know.

You'd figure just, you know, self-preservation-wise, they would do something. But instead, no, everyone's just, everyone's dug in. Everyone's insane and everyone coping. I got to pee. I'll be right back. Yeah, well, let me take a break, everyone. We're all going to go pee, but stick around. We'll pee right back.

Hi. And we're back. This bad as barra, the world's most moral podcast here with congressional candidate Kat Abugazale. How you doing, Kat? I'm good. How are y'all? It's been so long. I know.

We all took the longest pee in the world. We're back and we need to talk about the Super Bowl. The big game is coming up. You know, I used to work in broadcast radio. I was like an engineer. And you were not allowed to say Super Bowl. There was like a weird thing. There was like, there was like trademarked or something.

Yeah, there was like a law. I don't know. It's a law, but it was like they would sue you, I guess. So you had to always call it the big game. It was crazy. I love that. Like, I think you would want people to know the name, like for name recognition purposes. That's what I thought.

I was like, wait. And also like, what about free speech? I think that's the first time I became like, hey, wait a second. There's two things you can't say on national radio or television. Super Bowl. or Israel is an apartheid state. So next, once we deal with the whole Israel apartheid situation, next we'll be saying Super Bowl out loud. So could I just say talking about our entire last segment, I was like, how do these guys get any reach with SEO if we're talking about pedophiles, Israel?

We don't. We don't. We have what's called a stagnant podcast where we have our listeners and that's it. We don't gain. We don't lose. But yeah, we need to talk about this ad, actually, that's coming out. The owner of the New England Patriots is a man by the name of Robert Kraft. He is, of course, a multi-billionaire.

And he is also a big supporter of Israel. Was he in the Epstein Files, by the way? I hear millionaire, and I think that's a great question. I should, you know, I guess you would see it, right? I mean, at this point, I'm just hoping someone else does the journalism job and tells me. Yeah, this is the bummer of running for Congress because what's my old job. That's that's a little hint to you. You're supposed to be.

Oh, yeah. Tell us. Typing it in. I don't see you typing. Kraft. Epstein question. Type in Kraft. Epstein files.

Oh, wait. Hold on. Jeffrey Epstein wanted Robert Kraft to hire his lawyer amid Patriot owner's prostitution case document show. Oh, that's right. No, he's a little sex pest of his own. I forgot that. Yeah.

But he, I think he did more of blue collar rub and tug. as opposed to, you know, going, you know, to an island. He's his own little type of sex freak. But if it's not consensual, you know. Exactly. Hey, listen, who's the judge? But yes, he did go to a massage parlor, and we don't know if he went to the island. The point is, is he put out an ad recently.

He is, this is the second year in a row, I believe, that he has backed a campaign to fight anti-Semitism. You know, I think last year there was a campaign that was called Stop Jewish Hate. And if you guys don't know, apparently, Jonathan Greenblatt at the ADL did, they did a study to see what people thought of this campaign. And the majority of people thought stop Jewish hate meant stop. what it sounds like. Stop Jewish people from doing hate. Stop these hating ass Jews.

Apparently. So if you want to know how bad our brand is right now, it's that when people hear stop Asian hate, they don't think, man, all these Asians keep doing hate crimes. They think about the fact that Asians were being victimized by people, hate crime by people. The stop Jewish hate thing didn't work. So this year they're trying a new tack, and it is with this ad, which I consider to be a kind of, I don't know, ticky tack ad.

But I don't care. I think it's a masterpiece. It's cute. Let's all watch the anti-Semitism ad that is no longer called Stop Jewish Hate. Instead, it is just a PSA about anti-Semitism. Here it is. For those listening, it is. a white boy who's got a backpack on in a high school.

He's walking down the hall. And people, I believe, are going to start whispering. He just got shoulder checked. You got shoulder checked. Someone called him a loser. Did you see that? Should we tell him? Come back.

Oh, look at him. Oh, my gosh. And you're hearing whispering, people saying, look at him, loser. Should we tell him? Should we tell him? And now he's going to his locker. He opens it up. On his backpack is a post-it that says dirty Jew.

So I guess someone... Yeah, someone put that... The handwriting is way too good. Yeah, that's true. A high school student does not have that good of handwriting. So apparently someone put dirty Jew on his backpack back while he was walking down the hall. And then...

Just do not listen to that. Let's keep watching. Sorry. Thank you, man. I know how it feels. Two and three Jewish teens have experienced anti-Semitism. So hold up. So what just happened was...

Everyone's heard of the magical Negro trope, right? Like, you know, Hollywood movies always has like a black character, like... The Bagger Vans. or whatever. Who will be there to like teach the white character protagonist a life lesson. And often, you know, spin some folksy hard one, hard-earned wisdom born of a life of adversity, but ultimately to be there to be of service to lighten the load of a white boy

in distress. It's when, it's the most magical Negro in history. He comes along, he appears, you know, right at the moment that this, this kid discovers dirty Jew on his backpack and he comes along and he places over, instead of taking the, the posted off, he comes in places a blue post-it note on it. I just say, I have never seen a post-it note in those color by life. Yeah. Seriously.

Post-it notes are all pastel. They're not that dark. Right. The whole point of a post-in note is that it's supposed to not just be too dark to write on. It needs to be light. That's the whole thing. That's why they're all neon, but that's beside the point.

The point is, is he saved him. He saved him. And he, don't listen to them, bro. Yeah, go ahead. And he puts his own blue post-it note on his chest. And they stand together and look down the hallway together. Yes. And he also says, don't worry about it.

I know, I know how it feels. And then we have this exchange. Nah. They're not worth it, bro. They're not worth it, bro. Yeah, you're right. I was tripping. Gives them some dab.

Wait, what is right? You're right. I was tripping. I was tripping, yo. Yeah, I was tripping. And then he asks what's his name? Yeah, and they ask what's his name. And they say each other's names to each other.

They introduce each other. And it says, stand up to Jewish hate. That they literally, that's literally what it says at the end there. Stand up to Jewish hate. Oh, they kept it. Oh, well, that's good. Yeah, it's right there on the screen. Well, but this like that this, this, this, this black kid, like, he's there in the crunch, in the moment to let this Jewish kid know, hey, you know, I know a little bit of something about what you're going through there.

It's so white. It's like, this is just, it's like nothing is more this is written by white men than this type of thing. Because that's the whole thing about that trope is that in general, it's just, it's a way of writing a character to make you feel better about yourself, white man. Now, in this case, what they're doing is sort of something, you know, that I've seen a lot of, which is trying to make, um, trying to make, um, um, anti-Jewish hatred and anti-black hatred be sort of share the same playing field, which only makes sense to, I think, me and other Jews that I know. They're the only people who make this comparison. And for the most part, we're all white Jews included.

A lot of us are very embarrassed by the fact that other white Jews keep doing this. or they keep trying to... We were there for them. Where are they for us? Like this ad is supposed to example of... It's almost... Yes. I think...

It's like this is like a teachable moment for all the black viewers of the Super Bowl. Here is how you should be dealing with anti-Semitism in your midst. Stand up. Yeah. Stand up. And it's like... Think about someone other than yourself for a change.

The thing is, I'm not... Obviously, I think that people should stand up for anyone who's facing bigotry of any kind. That's, of course, the case. The way in which this commercial kind of comes off, at least as I'm watching it, knowing the type of, I don't know, ideologies that a lot of people who are probably behind this ad have, they are chastising other people for not standing up to Jewish hatred and very purposefully being like, hey, African Americans. Take note of this. Like you can feel the condescension.

You can feel it in the ad. At least that's from my perspective. Kat, I don't know. If you view this ad as patronizing or if you yourself. Does it inspire you to want to rise to greater and greater heights of solidarity with the Jewish kids in your district who are having really extremely nicely calligraphed notes put on their back? I got to feel a little attacked here because I write in all caps. I have a very nice handwriting and I feel like you're like throwing shade at my handwriting. I guess what we're saying is did you put that post-in-note?

Can you just write dirty Joe in a post-it note and show us? Yeah, we're going to do a little comparison to one-to-one here. Let's all do it. One of the things that's frustrating is like it's like as someone that writes stuff and makes stuff for a living, it's just like badly made. Like it's like just take the sticky note off Right right It's like this feels so true horn It's really weird

I do have to say though Like there was You know this district Includes Skokie which had the most Holocaust survivors outside of Israel After the Holocaust And so there's a big Jewish population here And I was talking to a kid

Who was really bright He was like 14 and he had a lot of questions for me And some of them based in misinformation and some of them not, but I just tried to stress like, look, you know, I'm Palestinian, you're Jewish. Our safety is intertwined. Like after 9-11, there was a skyrocketing in Islamophobia across the board, which like, lend itself to like Sikhs and brown people. Like this guy in Dallas went and just shot convenience store owners after 9-11 and only killed Sikhs, not Muslims. Not that killing Muslims would be good, but it's something that like just Arabs and brown people

across the board dealt with. And after October 7th, there, of course has been a rise in Islam And anti-Palestinian racism specifically, but there has also been a sharp, sharp increase in just anti-Semitism across the board. And like, we can't get anywhere without both of us. And he was like, wow, that makes a lot of sense. And I was like, we wrote a position paper on this. Here's this. I've devoted my life to conspiracy theories, all of this. And then this crazy Republican went over and told him that I like love Hamas or something.

And he was like, try not to lie to a child next time. And I felt so bad because I was like, damn, kid. I hope that, like, you'll, you can think about this. Like, if you do have questions, reach out to us again. But, like, the type of shit that kids are dealing with, like, there is actual anti-Semitism in schools right now. But the answer is not putting a blue post-it over. It's not lecturing other people.

It is, it's, like, actually standing up for people and educating each other and, like, recognizing that solidarity. And I don't know. I'm just, like, very frustrated across the board. I'm angry all at the time now. Yeah. I mean, just the way in which anti-Semitism is also displayed. here is like obviously this sort of like this 1950s view of what anti-Semitism is and also this

sort of like American view a little bit but first on the 1950s angle like the the anti-Semitism that kids in school are dealing with I mean I'm sure there are still people calling people dirty Jews and whatnot and I'm sure there is graffiti that people deal with anti-Semitic A lot of it's like far right bullshit. Right. And a lot of it is obviously far right bullshit. But the way in which anti-Semitism and all racism usually manifests itself in ways that are felt by people is obviously, I think, much more subtle. And I think when you see an ad like this, it's kind of like, well, yeah, I don't think there's anybody who if they saw a, not.

to say anybody, but most people, most kids, if they saw someone doing actual bigotry to someone, saying just straight dirty Jew to someone, they're going to say something. You don't actually need to tell this generation of kids to stand against bigotry. As we've seen, they will do that on their own. This ad feels like a hard bar like dirty Jew. Like that's like really, really aggressive. Like I feel like even like reactionary kids would be like, all right, calm down, buddy. Like, Right. This ad is not for kids. They're using kids just like they're using black people.

Yes. To create this perfect analogy for the people they're trying to propagandize in the Super Bowl ad. White Christians. Really funny about it, which we should probably move on to because I know we don't have a ton of time, is that this ad is so gauche and so tacky that even the Hasbarists are embarrassed by it. But they can't quite figure out. what else to suggest. So we have a lot of examples of them weighing in with their own version of cringe.

So this is from Adam Louis Klein or Lewis Klein, and he's someone we talk about a lot. And so the Hespars fears, they don't like this. They go, it is obvious what I'm going to say about this ad. I've been called, quote, dirty Jew many times on Twitter, but never once at McGill University. What I was called repeatedly was genocidal Zionist. The ad makes no mention of anti-Zionism, why would it, and ignores the fact that today a Jewish student is far more likely to find, quote, white colonizer, scrawled on their locker than an anti-Semitic slur from the 40s. Anyone looking at this ad could easily respond, well, maybe Israel shouldn't be committing genocide. That's already what anti-Zionists are saying.

Unfortunately, this advertisement will have no effect and will be a colossal waste of money. you cannot fight anti-Jewish harassment and discrimination today without naming anti-Zionism and clearly condemning the libeles it spreads about Israel. What I love about this is like, on the one hand, credit where credit is due, it is not wrong to say that there are, of course, people who will use anti-Zionism, quote-unquote, in order to do anti-Semitism. That exists, that's always existed. I got an argument with someone about this where they were like, so do you identify yourself

as an anti-Zionist? And I was like, look, I studied extremism and like, you know, displacement, genocide, atrocity in college. And there's like an academic term. But people use it very differently now. And you don't know what it means to everyone. And at a time where people are very charged up, like, let's be careful about language. So.

Sure, sure. And I, you know, personally, I'm someone. That's not what this guy means. Right. Well, and personally, I'm someone who believes that, you know, at this point, we need to be educating people on what anti-Zionism is and what the people like, Adam Louis Klein are doing is they are very specifically trying to label it in that David Duke's sense. So what he is doing is being like anti-Zionism is actually the main thing we should be worried about.

What I love about that is going, forget calling people dirty Jews. They're allowed to do that. But if they mention the fact that I support a genocidal state, that is the real anti-Semitism. And that's kind of like the feeling amongst most of these. psychopaths. Here is my absolute favorite. This is from someone who is the editor at large at tablet magazine, Lyle Lievitts. So much love and respect for Robert Kraft. I'm glad that's out of the way. The guy is sitting up on the craft servicing table with his legs spayed. Much respect for Robert Kraft. Obviously, big fan of his Mac and cheese. But

it's almost impossible to imagine a more R word ad than this. First off, let's do the same thing we did last year to make sure you understand we have no creativity left. Second of all, let's make the call to action posting a hashtag BLM-like bullshit square because that's what serious people do. Third of all, let's make the story, let's make sure the story we tell is of a dweebe. Jew getting gallantly rescued by a cool black dude. That's just racist. Yeah. Well, see, that's the thing about this is like what he's mad about is he's like,

the blacks are cool and the Jews are dweeby. Like his issue. This is intel shit. It really like paints that like BLM Square thing he just did in a much more different light. Like at first I might be like, yeah, it does seem kind of like hacky like you're doing an online activism, you know, meme.

Yeah. But no. The way the Hasbara's have been totally glomming onto outdated woke, right, you know, gesturing that they used to make fun of. Now it's their favorite thing. Now it's their favorite thing. But in this case, I think he's just, I think he is actually anti-BLM. I think that's why he said that based on this fucking line.

Yeah. Let me just finish reading this. He says, if I had $10 million to spend on a Super Bowl ad, I just show. bunch of exploding beepers, dead Hamas and Hezbollah leaders, hot Israeli girls with guns, and the caption, fuck around, find out. But hey, why go with Jewish power and pride when quivering victimhood mixed with the worst of social media clickivism is exactly what some committee of overpaid PR pros and professional Jewish org types thought would work wonders? there is the most, I think, pitch perfect, right-wing psychopathic Israeli tweet of all time.

That's fucking insane. Let's get a Super Bowl ad out there that. I'm worried about male aggression. I want to put corpses next to hot girls and bikinis. I'm worried about people being too violent and angry now. Let's associate death with horny. Jew with He's straight up saying

Like if you really want to stop anti-Semitism What the ad should be is A hot Israeli soldier Wakeboarding across a sea of child skulls And saying like Jews love this And I'm doing this for the Jewish people If you do not like it

You will be fired And face severe penalties That'll make people love Jews I'll tell you that That'll stop anti-Semitism right in its tracks It really will When what I've heard someone refer to as communist, which is a very funny term,

um, who like didn't know where like Gaza was before October 7th. And like they have so many ideas on, uh, uh, advertising and publicity for Palestinian people. And would you, wouldn't you know it?

It's all fucking awful. Terrible. Awful. Bad ideas. Uh, I don't know. I don't think we, I don't think that's a good idea.

I don't think that's a good ad. I've made a lot of ads to the campaign. I don't think it's a good ad. No. I think it's a, I, I'm, I'm, You know, but there's part of me that wishes that he was the one. Sponsored by the elect Chicago women pack.

Right. Yeah, I mean, the fact that he is of the firm belief that the only way in which to stop anti-Semitism is to convince the people watching that the Jews are a punitive people who kill lots of Arabs and that if you fuck around, you will face the consequences of world jury. I want you to be scared with an erection. Stop anti-Semiticate. At this point, I'm like, I want you to be too messent with terror.

Yeah. If you want to keep that blood in your boner, you better love this. Yeah, it is, it's just the perfect Israeli mindset. It's like if Jabotinsky wrote an anti-Semitism ad, it's just like the problem with this is that the Jews are too weak in it. And it's like, you understand you want. want people to stop hating Jews, right? And I think he would answer that. Why? Why do we need that?

Instead, we should have people fear Jews. Well, exactly. It's either hate or fear. That's true. Fear is love. That's what I've heard. That is true. So shout out to the great editor-in-chief tablet. I'm sure someone will someday listen to your PR ideas. You seem like a real smart guy. Can't wait to listen to his flop podcast. Oh, yeah. It's going to be great. Kat, thank you so much for coming back on Baddus Bar and talking with us.

Thank you so much for having me, guys. You know, it's a nice departure from typical campaign stuff all day. Yeah, good. I'm glad. That's what we're supposed to be. Where can people find you and where can they donate? Well, you can donate at catforilinois.com, but one of the best things you can do is help us text bank and phone bank.

And if you're in Illinois, doork, which you can do at, Cap for Illinois.com at our events page. Or go to Discord.g.g. slash Cap for Illinois. We have a very fun Discord. Also, if you know anyone or you live in Chicago, this district goes from uptown, up to Evanston, West of Skokie, all the way to Algonquin and Crystal Lake. So please tell your friends and family that there is an election. Election Day is March 17th.

Wow. Coming up. March 17th. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. So we are up against one person who's actively funded. by APAC, two people who

have both met with and submitted position papers to APAC. I have never done that, which makes me very brave and very strong. Well, you're still young. There's time. There's time. Oh, my God. It was so difficult. Your career's just starting. Yeah. We are supported by small dollar donations, but we

got to put out ads. We got to pay our staff. We pay our staff a living wage. Our office is a mutual aid hub. So we got to keep the lights on. So please donate, volunteer. Tell your friends, tell your family. And if you're in the area, make sure to vote. That's right. Please do vote. And like and subscribe to not as bar. That's right.

Yeah. Also like and subscribe to our podcast that you are currently listening to. But Kat, I really appreciate you coming on and speaking with us some more and really pull in for you. Thanks, guys. I think you're going to win this. I mean, now that you got the bad Hasbarra bump, should be a cakewalk. Hell yeah. Next time I come on, let's do it as a Democratic nominee for.

Fuck. Yeah. All right, here's hoping. Or someone that's broke and not on the campaign trail anymore. What are they like? Either one. I mean, listen, if you're not on the campaign trail anymore, whatever. You get to be back on Bad As Barra talking mad shit with the homies.

Thank you for coming on and thank you to everyone out there for listening to another episode. Patreon.com slash Badazbara. Batasbara at gmail.com for all your questions, comments, concerns. All right. Thanks so much for listening. And until next time, From the river to the sea. Let's fight hatred and prejudice.

Psychopathically. Very good. Jumping jacks was us. Push-ups was us. Gautma-ga us. All karate us. Taking Molly us. Michael Jackson on us.

Endless Red Sucks us. Happy meals was us.