Badlands Media - PEOPLE EP. 20: Jay Gatling from Badge to Broadcast and the Day That Changed Everything

Episode Date: March 8, 2026

In this episode of People, Alpha Warrior sits down with former NYPD and Port Authority Police officer Jay Gatling for a deeply personal conversation about service, sacrifice, and the moments that shape a life. Jay shares his upbringing on Long Island, the path that led him to law enforcement, and the mindset that drove him to pursue the badge from a young age. The discussion turns to September 11th and the profound impact it had on Jay’s career and the nation. He recounts the morning he first heard about the attacks, the eerie drive through empty New York roads, and the reality facing first responders in the days that followed. Jay reflects on the brotherhood of law enforcement, the weight of losing colleagues over the years, and the lessons learned from decades of service. From his role as a union delegate advocating for fellow officers to his eventual retirement and new chapter in media, Jay explains how his voice found a new platform through podcasting and social media. It is a story about resilience, loyalty, and finding purpose long after the uniform comes off.

out of the badlands, explain those badlands. That's a hell of a name. Live your life in such a way that when you die, the world cries while you rejoice. Have you ever stopped to wonder about the soul behind the spotlight? The truth behind the headlines. Beneath every glamorous facade lies a story waiting to be told. A journey full of triumph, struggles, heartaches, and victories.

Welcome to people. The groundbreaking series here on the Alpha Warrior Show. Tonight, we're setting politics aside no hidden agendas, no filters, just pure, raw humanity. In a world that constantly tries to categorize us, it's easy to forget what binds us together, our shared experiences, our laughter, our tears, and the authentic moments that define who we truly are. Each week, we're going to explore the powerful, emotional, and beautiful, imperfect lives of people who inspire us, captivate us, and remind us that we're all in this incredibly messy and extraordinary journey together. We'll laugh, will reflect, and we'll dive deep into the stories that often go unto unapologetically, real, and deeply personal.

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So politics will probably surely interject itself in the conversation. But we get to talk to someone who, who share some stuff with me in life. You know, he wore that badge on his chest. And, you know, there's, there's a part of that story that I suspect we're going to learn a lot about. So I get to learn about Jay with you guys. But I do know that this man does fight for this country. He is patriotic. And he spends a lot of time on social media trying to communicate that message to people.

So without further ado, let me welcome today's guests to the show, Jay. Thanks for joining us, brother. How are you doing? Hey, Alpha, man. It's great to be with you. I really appreciate you. me on the show, man. Awesome. No, listen, I was kind of telling you before we started to go on this record. There's so many people that I want to bring on this show, you know, people that have come

across and, you know, a lot of the mutual communities that we find ourselves in, I'm just like, like more people need to know that person's story. Or look at this, this person is working on a mission that a million eyes need to be on. I mean, everybody's focused on, you know, Alex Jones or Tucker Carlson, and I get it. You know, some of those things need to be heard. But, there's so many everyday Americans that if people knew their stories or the things that they're involved with, it would just be blown away, but we just don't hear about it. Yeah, it's very true. And you're getting to learn more about a bunch of different people all the time just because

of social media, which is one of the benefits of it. There are things we could talk about that have problems with social media and the problems that causes. But I think the benefits outweigh those cons, what you just said, learning different people's stories, hearing different people's perspectives. And a lot of people have, I mean, such tremendous insights to give that I'm glad now we get to hear them because it's not just in this bubble that I guess used to be Washington, D.C. or the sphere, the political sphere around there and other areas. Now it's just everywhere. And you can then take what you hear and use your own judgment to believe what you want to believe and act the way you want to act on it.

Yeah. I think it's, I think it's, I think it's, I think it also it's new. It's like we're just getting started here. I agree. I agree. We are just getting started. There's these growing pains with alt media and even the podcast world, you know, it's kind of taking its alt media kind of form with with radio. Because, you know, a lot of people have always wanted to do radio, but it's just got to get licensing and you got to find these frequencies unless you're like, you know, in the boondocks, you know, communicating on is anybody out there, right? We've seen those movies, but I, I am excited about it too. So let's, let's kind of. you know, take the clock back. And I always tell my, my guess, you know, share as much as as you feel comfortable with. You know, I know everybody's, you know, young story about themselves is not always, is always great or not all of us. We're very lucky. But take us back to the early young years of Jay, you know, I believe from Long Island, right? Yeah. Yep. Born and raised. Yeah. Still here. Long Island is quite an amazing place, to be quite honestly. Is it expensive? Yes. Has it gotten too expensive yes but a place to grow up i don't know you're within 40 minutes of new york city you have

beaches you have the hamptons you have the north shore which is a different place than the south shore it's really an incredible place as far and that's why i guess it's so desirable and why so many people want to be here it's just it's kind of pricing people out but it always seems like there'll be people to come and replace those it i know there's a loss in new york but i don't think long island will ever be starving for people uh sometimes i wish it would but i don't think it'll ever happen because it is a very desirable place to be because there's everything there's literally everything here anything you could want but growing up here um it was i mean a regular american childhood i guess there's nothing out of the ordinary you know in the grand scheme of things um you know my mother uh

school teacher for years and years in new york city uh she served for a very long time in not a great my father, a professional person, you know, a couple of siblings, but nothing, nothing out of the ordinary, but just growing up, always, you know, regular public school, private school for a little bit, and then I got a little too expensive for my parents. So I went back to public school and graduated from public high school and still have friends that I talk to all the time in a group text from high school. So I think that's awesome. Nothing crazy, but the journey for me for the rest of my life,

I guess started, I guess maybe my senior year of high school when I decided what I wanted to do. Before we get into the senior year, I want to take it back. So you had a mom that was a teacher. Yeah. So was it like, Jay, better not make you look bad. You know, did you go to the same school or a different one? And the reason I asked is, you know, my mom was a teacher's assistant when I was young. She worked with the handicapped kids. And, you know, we never lined it up in any of the same schools. You know, I was, I was at a different different school than my mom ever worked at up until my freshman year. And I remember she tells me, she's like, better not. I'm better. You better not. So I'm curious if you had a conversation like

that, if you remember. Well, I was never in the same school. She always in New York City. And so I was never in the same school. Thank God. I couldn't even have imagined what that would have been like for me. But as far as don't embarrass me, yeah, I heard that all the time. Don't embarrass me. I still kind of live like that now and with my children, don't embarrass me. Don't embarrass yourself. And if you don't embarrass yourself, you won't embarrass me. That standard was kind of there.

It was, you know, do the right thing. You were raised a certain way. Use your best judgment. Obviously, I'm not going to be with you forever. I'm not going to be by your side holding your hand. But you're going to be raised a certain way and you're going to use your best judgment in life as situations arise and that's really what it came down to but yeah it was there was in my family it wasn't um are you going to college it was where are you going to college so that's how

it wasn't my family with it with with me so i wasn't this like genius straight a didn't have to study kind of student or anything like that i wish i was but i wasn't but i was i had to get good grades uh that wasn't acceptable you know it wasn't oh you know you got a you got a d you passed a d what are you kidding me it wasn't happening i mean it was a b or above so and now what i look back i'm glad that i was put under those the screws were turned on me you know to do that because uh it benefited me through my life and that's not saying that's for everybody um certainly now i think things have changed where it's not um and i didn't raise my children to be you're going to college you're going to college no i just want you to be a good person uh do the right thing and i want you to be able

to support yourself with a good job and do something that you like uh very few people you're of us, I think Alpha, get to do something we love to make money. It's just, you know, unless you're a quarterback or a professional baseball player or, you know, a professional athlete or an actor or something where it's, oh, my God, this is what I love to do. Those are very few and far between. You probably have a better chance of winning the Powerball. But, you know, do something you like. And yeah, that's how I was brought up. And that's got, I guess that's what then we can, if you want, whenever you you want to move on to the next part, that's what shaped the rest of my life going forward. No, and I do, you know, I always tell people, you know, I was, we're, I wasn't just raised Catholic. Like, my mom was like, we're Roman Catholic. Like, like that, that was the, the mentality there. So, you know, my parents came from, from backgrounds where school wasn't pushed on them, you know, like we're, you know, born and raised here in Southern California. And at a young age, you know, my, my, my father, you know, he had to go to high school. Like, you know, they, you know, they, they, they, they, they, they, they,

parents did push school, but secondary school wasn't everything. They actually went to the fields while they were in the morning. No, they'd be at the fields at on like 3, 30, 4 o'clock. I'm sure there's some exaggerations to that story from my father. And then from there, then they would go to school. So, you know, my dad and my mom, they talked about college and it was like, hey, you need to go to college. But they also didn't have really the experience or knowledge to push it. But they were very strict on education. So when you're talking about, you know, did you get a D? Like, that was my dad. Like, he was like, you know, I may not know a law about the schools, but I know he used to tell me, if you get a C, that's a D.

Right. So just understand, like, we're not going to be happy. So it's, it's interesting to see that, you know, even with a parent that was in the school environment, they were still going. Oh, well, my father's, he's in the mental health industry, psychologist, psychiatry, is that stuff. obviously very highly educated highly educated uh my mother obviously teacher highly educated so again it it wasn't an option for me it was you're going to college and i as i said it worked out for me and i think times have started to change where people realize that isn't the only route and i'm glad that's happened because i and even within my family now um i i i think we need more people to

do well in school i think you need to do well in high school i think you need to do well in high school I think you should take it seriously. I think you, as much as we're in school and like, oh, my God, what am I taking this class for? I'm not learning anything. I'm never going to use this math, I mean, ever. But in a way, no, you're learning something when you don't even know you're learning something. It's kind of developing your brain. It's developing your mind.

It's teaching you how to think. It's teaching you how to evaluate and, you know, come to conclusions and this and that. So it is important still to say, no, education, absolutely, very important. But it's not that it has to be your life. I have to go to college in order to be a successful person in order to have a good life. No, that is not the case. And I'm glad that we are starting to realize that because if we don't, we're going to be in trouble. Because a lot of the people that are doing jobs where you didn't necessarily need to go to college,

they're getting older. They're aging out. They're retiring. You know, we need to replace them with, you know, we need good plumbers and electricians and linemen and all of these things that people do with their hands that are professions that many people cannot do or wouldn't have the guts to do. So we need that. And I think it's important to have that kind of balance where we say, oh, listen, college is a great thing, but don't necessarily say to somebody, it's either that or

nothing. No, absolutely not. That's the opposite. It's, that's a choice. It's a choice. And if you feel you don't want to do that, there are so many things out there that are great jobs, that you could have a great life and serve your community and serve society in a great way. Absolutely. The last question about your childhood. And it's more of like a retrospect looking to your childhood. And we'll get into that senior year where you want to go. You know, when when I look at the way, you know, and I'm very great, like you, I'm very grateful my parents were as hard as they were on me when it comes to education. But I also know that they were a little too hard.

And, and when I look back, you know, the way they were on me, you know, I wanted to make sure I wasn't like that. I wanted to have the same goal, but I didn't want to push as hard because like, like you're saying, you know, yes, you know, college is an option out there, but there's a lot of other trade schools and things that are important for you. And so do you kind of find the way your parents were with you? Did you kind of find yourself mimic what they did? Or it sounds like you kind of explained that you did make the adjustment and not pushing it. Did it impact you being a father? Yeah, it did. Because I realize everybody's different. And obviously, but I realize, you know,

just because it's my offspring, they're not going to be exactly like me. They're not going to have their own mind. They're going to have their own desires. They're going to have their own dreams and things that they want to do. So as I said, I kind of was a little less lenient. And what I would say to them, my kids, when they were, you know, they're a little older now. They're not old. They're not independent financially yet, right?

But they're out of, I said, as long as I know you're trying, as long as I know you studied and you gave it your best on a test, I'll be okay. with that. I'm fine with that. It wasn't like that for me. It wasn't, you know, no, you've got to get a good grade, you know. With my kids, I guess, to me, I kind of rebelled from that line of thought where I said, no, as long as I know you tried, if you don't come back with the result that maybe we all wanted, that's fine. You'll try harder next time or you'll figure out a way to do better next time. And that's how I think you should go approach life in a lot of ways, right? I mean, as long as you actually gave it an earnest effort and you didn't sell yourself short, I don't think you could ask much more of that from people.

I completely agree with that. All right, Jay, senior year, walk us through this. All right. Well, you know, my senior year, like high school, I wasn't like this popular or anything like that. I was regular, you know, a regular kid. And then going into my senior year, I guess I started to gain a little bit of popularity maybe just because you're becoming a senior maybe that's what it was but um i i guess i started to get noticed a little more whatever it was but um and and i always i guess i had this sense of humor and suddenly in my high school everybody so you're so funny you're funny i go i am i'm funny huh yeah when we we vote at the end of the year you're going to be the class clown you're the funniest i'm like okay I said, right?

So, you know, that started to take shape where I was some funny person. I guess I was outspoken. Yes, I was outspoken. I didn't realize it yet. But I guess I was. Obviously, I have a voice, and I guess I have a hard time flying under the radar. And I guess that's when that started to develop was that senior year where I started to come out of my show a little bit. And that's when I kind of decided, you know, that I wanted to go into law enforcement.

And I said, because I felt like, I don't know, maybe it was part of my last. personality where I said I could do this I like it I it's something I think I would enjoy I would enjoy and it was a friend of mine who was a New York City police officer a little older than me he was a cousin of one of my best friends and he would hang out with us you know he wasn't that much older but he would hang out with us and you know tell the stories of where he was and he was in a he worked in a bad area in the Bronx and I said I want to do that I said I don't know why I want to do it but I want to do it. I was always into that stuff.

And I said, okay, I think, yeah, I think I made up my mind. And that's when I decided I'm going to go to college and I'm going to major in criminal justice and take the route of becoming a police officer. And that's what happened to me, my senior year. I decided it then. And you always hear people, you don't know what you want to do. You know, a lot of people don't. They don't decide what they want to do till later, even maybe at the end of college or after

college, this is what I really want to do. No, I decided then this is what I really want to do. And that is when I set my mind on it. And that was it. It took off from there. And I went to go St. John's University and majored in criminal justice and started my journey. You know, you bring something out.

And I've noticed on guys that either went career or guys that were just, you know, good cops, like solid, good, like the proactive guys, right? I noticed that, like, when we would talk, these were guys that knew very. young they wanted to do it. You know, there's a lot of guys, you know, call them the slugs, right? That one percent. And sometimes they'll go career too. But I noticed that their perception or,

now perception is not the wrong, is the wrong word. Their motivation for the career was, oh, it's stable. There's benefits. You know, this is a job that I can do the career. And you can tell it matches that, that motivation. And, you know, you look very young. So I'm thinking we're somewhere in the same, you know, window of age. I think back was, was there any TV shows when I was young that might have motivated?

Because like you in high school, like I knew too. I knew I wanted to be a cop. As a matter of fact, that is what kept me from doing a lot of things that my friends were doing. Yes. A lot of my friends did do things like mushrooms and X. And I just said, no, because I knew the pathway I wanted to go, you know, had cousins that were getting tattoos like i knew i got to try to stay as flawless as possible for this career so at a very young age it did dictate that to me but i want to do you remember a tv

show and i will do my best to do this theme song because if i played it youtube would just say you can't do this but it kind of got something like da dun dun da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da yeah Of course, the ships. I can't believe I should have got that much faster. Oh, my God. But my older brother and I, my older brother and I, I mean, so I'm a little older than you for a little older, a few years. But we would watch that show. I was very young when Ships first came out. I was, you know, four or five years old. But we would watch that show every time it came on. And I swear I would watch reruns when I was older. I mean, yes, that show, if there was one, you know, if there was one, show i guess that maybe inspired a lot of people from our generation in our time to become cops it was chips absolutely i'm so glad you brought that up and talk about a great theme song i mean all time i mean baker and punch and yeah sergeant katre and i mean so many i mean just legendary stuff i mean and and they're still on youtube and i'll go on youtube alpha and i'll look if i don't know if you've ever done this but you can go on youtube and there's a there's a site or maybe it's a bunch of sites to do it but

But they'll show you like the, the areas where the chips was filmed then compared to now. So they'll show scenes from the show. And then they'll, like, you know, they'll transition the shot into what it looks like now. So I think you would, you got it. You'll just type it into one of your search engines on YouTube and you'll find it. And I swear you'll be addicted. You're going to be, oh, my God, that's what then. Now it's what it looks like now.

It's pretty cool. I am absolutely going to do that, man. Yeah. You know, I do look. And sometimes I feel like we're lucky. Like there were a lot of cool shows that, you know, it was a payment law enforcement in a positive light. You know, whether it was Magnum P.I. Or, you know, everybody can go through a bunch of different ones. Like, you know, it didn't make cops out to be the bad guy, you know, the demon, you know, there was a lot of respect there.

Yep. And so I think that motivated, you know, I mean, you're, we're, you know, young boys, young men, you know, you get that, that hero mentality, you know, very young. And one of things I noticed with a lot of good cops, too, is they had that mentality. one man can change the world and I'm gonna be that guy you know that that was a mentality that that now you know we're gonna get into the career now because your career definitely slaps you in the face with some reality so you know you get into college you go into administration justice criminal I went to criminal justice you get into criminal justice and then you find yourself one day signing an

application to go into an agency did you apply to several agencies Did you have your sights on one? What was that like? Okay, well, what happened was this. I went and I was in St. John's and then my sophomore year, I applied for the NYPD Police Cadet Corps. So what that is, it's kind of like an internship where if you get in, they'll give you, if you get college credits for it, you'll also go through the New York City Police Academy kind of not as a, you'll as a civilian. You won't be firearms trained, but you will go through a summer, a summer. of the police academy, Monday to Friday, July to August.

And then after that, while you're in school, your last couple of years, you'll work at a precinct as a police cadet. And you'll do, you know, do paperwork and whatever they ask you to do, you'll do. And you'll get paid minimum wage. And it was, as I said, it'll give you college credits towards a degree. And then once you graduate, because back then it was hard to get on the NYPD. It wasn't easy. Not like that.

It wasn't easy. You took a test and there were thousands of people and you weren't guaranteed anything unless you scored 100. So what the cadet corps did, it also guaranteed you, you'd be on the job. You would get into the next academy class upon graduation from college. And you would be sworn in a day early. So you would be senior to everybody else in that class technically by a day, as far as whatever that would give you within the contractual, within the contract between the PBA and the NYPD. So I applied in my sophomore year and I didn't get in. And then I applied in my junior year and I got in and the last in the summer of 1994 uh instead of being out uh at 21 years old

instead of being out with everybody else every day I was taking the long island railroad Monday to Friday into New York City to go to the police academy and that went on July through the end of August and then back to school but that that's what I did and that that started my journey in the NYPD right there. That's how I got in. I'm glad I did that because, you know, it kept me from doing anything stupid in college, obviously, especially my last couple of years, because with the thing you said before resonated with me, like, I couldn't do a lot of things my friends when I do. I've never done a drug in my life. I'm retired now a few years. I still, I've never done a drug in my life. Never weed, nothing. Nothing. People like, what? That's important. I don't know. I just never did it.

Didn't appeal to me, number one, but number two, I just never even tried it because I knew this is what I want it to do. And then obviously once you're in it, you can't do it. So that's how I started my journey in NYPD, my junior year at college at St. John's, I did the last two years there. And then upon graduation, I was on a four and a half year plan. So I graduated in the winter. So it took me four and a half years. That's fine. I'm proud of that. All right, a little over four, but I did it. And then that summer, after I graduated in January, I went into the NYPD Academy. Got sworn in Alpha the day after the morning after TWA Flight 800. We are going to talk about that.

You know, I wasn't perfect in high school. I needed direction I wanted to do, but I did smoke weed three times. Oh, that's it. You're done. You're done. You're out.

Let me tell you, because I did have the mentality you have, but you know, I had a moment of weakness and curiosity with that. That when I get to the polygraph, now they say polygraph or straight face, You're never going to know where they stand on it, right? You're stressed out going in.

You fill out this form where there's a question on here. And I put it on there. Yes. You know, 1996 and 1997, you know, total three times. So you're in there polygraph in Tasman Jay. You only smoked weed three times. I'm like, yes, sir. And he's just like, why are you so stressed about it?

I'm like, because I know that this is probably going to end it for me. He goes, tell me the story. So I tell them because people laugh because, man listen i was a jock you know i was one of the popular kids too but i was a square when it came to like misbehavior and so i explained to him like i knew i wanted to be a cop at that age man like i knew i should have been doing it i go i i think i did it wrong as a matter of fact because i didn't even feel high this dude was crack the polygraph guy was cracking up and he was messing with you he had he's like he couldn't he couldn't he had to be at the time i'm thinking like this is it like my

entire life that I saw in front of me comes down to this moment right you know I'm looking at my friends like why you know you ruined my life you ruined my life you know a thousand nose and you guys get me on those three times and he tells me he goes he goes well one he goes you're definitely telling the truth he goes bro it's not even the big deal we just want to make sure you're not a pot head and that thing was you know years ago because for me this is following the the Marine Corps you know so you know when I went out I was 25 when I became a cop. And it just you,

you made me, man, I could feel myself in that seat like when I was thinking about it. So we, we get, you know, the day of 9-11. And I do want to go into like your rookie time,

but I do want to focus on here because this is an experience that, you know, it changed the face of this country. It changed the life trajectory of a lot of, lot of people like life changing decisions were made from people that witnessed it that were young people that experienced it you know like you're talking like the whatever you had a plan for life on that day people completely shifted in a different direction like it had that much impact and then there's you know the famous saying you know 9-11 never forget and a lot of people have

forgot. And so walk us through that morning, man. What, what was it like for you? Well, yeah, 9-11, it changed a trajectory of this country. It changed a trajectory of the world. And the world has never been the same since. Certainly, our country has never been the same. And I've never been the same. I'm sure you've never been the same. So that morning, at that time, I was with the NYPD and I was working afternoons, four to 12s, they called them. So I was home, worked the night before, was going into work that afternoon, but I was home in bed listening to Howard Stern. Back when Howard Stern was Howard Stern, he's no longer anymore, but back when he was Howard Stern, I listened to him every morning. So I was listening to him laying in bed.

And he was talking about something about Pamela Anderson. I remember exactly what they were talking about. And he's talking about Pamela Anderson with stuttering John and blah, blah, blah. And the next thing, I think Gary comes in and says, oh, a plane just crashed into the World Trade Center. And they're like, oh, really? What kind of moron would fly up? Like, what happened? Did he not see to the plane malfunction?

Like, what kind of plane? You know, nobody knew. Nobody, you know, it wasn't like now where if it happens, next thing you know, we're watching it on X. No, this is 2001, different world. So we're hearing it as it's coming in. And then it comes out, and they're still talking about it. And then they're kind of just joking around because they think it's just an accident. You know, it's bad, but it's an accident.

Somebody flew a Cessna into the World Trade Center because they didn't know what they were doing. And they would have, who knows? So then it's getting more. And like, oh, my God, that looks. Then it comes up on the TV screen that they're watching. And I'm still listening on the radio. I didn't go to my TV yet because I'm still lying in bed. I'm tired.

I'm listening. I'm listening. And then like, oh, that doesn't look good at all. That's, that's a big. That's a huge hole. That's not a small plane. And I'm like, oh, my way, what the hell's going on? And I'm not.

Now I'm sorry what's going on. Something's off here. This isn't right. This is different. Then the second plane hits. And Howard Stern right away. We're under attack. We're under attack.

So I said, I get out. I go to my TV. I go, my God. And I'm watching this. And as soon as I turn the TV on, I swear I said to myself, my life is never going to be the same right now. I said my career is never going to be the same starting right now. I said, this is turning the world upside down, as of course it would. So I'm watching.

And as I'm watching those, the towers burn, I'm looking at it on TV. We're watching it on TV. We're not there in tunnel vision, right? As all of those first responders and you know as a Marine, as a police officer, you're in a situation. A lot of times you're just like, boom, you're tunnel vision. and it's kind of something you try to avoid, but it's sometimes unavoidable. And in this situation, we're watching it on TV, and I'm not this perspective or I'm like, nothing's going to burn that long without falling down.

I'm just saying my saying, I said, if a house burns that long, it's going to fall. It collapses eventually. And I'm saying there's no way they're getting up there to get this fire out. I'm just looking, I'm going this through my mind. And I'm not Monday morning quarterbacking anybody. I'm just talking as I'm watching it. This is what I'm thinking, because again, I'm watching it from the 40, thousand foot view not from this there in it view where i'm like oh my god there's people they're

screaming they're jumping that i'm you know i got the easy job right at that point right so i'm like they they got to get the hell out that it's not going to this is not going to stop they have to get people out of there as many as they can so that's what i'm thinking not knowing at the time that the fdn y is basically setting up their command post in the building now of course the They would never do that at another fire. You don't set up a command. But people have to understand the enormity of the World Trade Center, how big it is. So they're there and they're saying, I'm inside the World Trade Center.

It's a fire upstairs. We're going to put it out. But I'm good down here. We're fine. Of course, if they could go back, they would never have done that. But I just think they weren't seeing it that way. You know, there were so many things we weren't seeing the way we see them now. And then the first tower falls.

And it's, I said, as soon as that tower fell, the first thing I thought was how many cops just died? As I knew, I said, a lot of cops just died right as that tower fell and a lot of other people died. I said, a lot of cops just died. But that, that's why my mind always went first because that's what I'm thinking of. Those are my brothers, those are my sisters. I'm sure you understand the same mentality. And then the thing comes under the bottom of the screen, the scroll on the Chiron, it says, every NYPD, blah, blah, blah, report to your precinct immediately.

So I'm already getting dressed. So I get in my car and I start driving into my precinct. So there's really not a lot of people on the road because everybody's now, right now, somewhere what? But I get to the cross island parkway and blocked. So I'll show my shield and they go, you know, of course, to letting first responders through. I am the only car on the Cross Island Parkway at mid-morning in Queens, New York. Just want people to think about that.

It's impossible. That'll hopefully never happen again. You want to talk about an eerie feeling, something surreal. There's nobody else on the road, not one. And I'm driving into work and there's nobody else on the road the entire way. into work, which was the Cross Island Parkway to the Grand Central Parkway right before you get to the bridge to take you into Manhattan. And if you want to stop me there for now, that's fine and ask questions, go right ahead

because I'll just keep going with the day if you want me to, but whatever you want to do. Yeah, I'm just trying to imagine that feeling, you know, the closest I probably ever came to that is, you know, you know, post law enforcement career when I was in that FBI fight, you know, I was doing the contracting work with for canines, explosive canines. And so when the whole world got shut down for COVID, you know, we were considered, you know, essential, right? You know, that was the term. And so, you know, I live out in Riverside, East Riverside County. So, you know, I'd have to work Hollywood or, you know, Disneyland, you know, these ventures normally take about two hours, two and a half hours to get there, you know, six flags, magic mound for those that are familiar with California, man, I was making these drives 40 minutes, 45 minutes, because there was no one, like you're talking parts of the freeway where you know it's going to take you about 20 minutes to do two miles and you're just, you know, you see another car out there and you're just like, hey, you know, it was, I remember it being very creepy. So now I'm, I'm trying to just.

picture like that feeling but then what you just witnessed yeah on the tv like like wow yeah that that that that kind of adds to it because right after you know what just happened and it's still ongoing and as you know i am talking no one not another car on the road and this is new york city at 11 o'clock or whatever 10th in the morning it's impossible that's what happened and when i talk about the FDNY being in the building. And again, I am not Monday morning quarterbacking anything that they did. I get what happened. I understand.

They would never do that in a building, but people need to understand when they question that. This is the world trade center. It is the size of it. It's just if you've never been in there, you just don't get it. If you're there standing inside of the lobby of the world, it's impossible for it to fall down. It can't happen. Well, you know. I just don't want people to take that the wrong way where I'm doing.

No, and I totally get what happened there. And I don't. And like you said, you know, and just, just the mindset of people like us that had that job, we think that no matter what, even if we don't want to, because we debrief any situation that we, that we witness. Like, it just, we just go into that mode because that's what we're taught. That's how we do self-preservation and preserve the public for the next time. something that like that happens what are they doing right what are they doing wrong like correct we're

just constantly trying to identify those markers so and and i get that when you get to work you know because you know it's you know and NYPD you know the new york police departments you know these these that you guys in ala pd you know largest largest agencies that exist out there right you know do you get there and you know buddies because i i think of i've never ever had to thank god had to respond to an incident like that but you know you know you know you know you get there and you know buddies because i i think of i've never ever had to But, you know, we had an all-call incident since that we get to, you know, and you get into a locker room and everybody's just, you know, donning their gear and putting on their vest. You're hearing all the Valcrow and everybody's kind of looking like, you know, who's going to get assigned where, who's going to do what? You know, there's, you know, there's that. You know, did you experience that? You know, what was it like? Like, once you get there and it's time to suit up. Okay. Once I get there, obviously the first thing you want to do was get to the World Trade Center. I wanted to get to the World Trade Center. I wanted to get down there and do what I could do. everybody wanted to. But obviously, then also on the back of my mind is we also have a

precinct to run here. Just because this is going on, doesn't mean that everything else in the precinct stops. Doesn't mean that 911 is shut down and that nothing else in the city is going on. There's always something going on. There's always going to be people that need the police. There's people that need, you know, an ambulance that need to, you know, go to the hospital or a car accident. It doesn't just, yes, things got slower because people were. Especially in that scenario because crooks are crooks they see that as they see that as you know what i know they're going to have to commit a bunch of units that way right so if there's ever a time that we want to do something now's the moment to do it like we both know that that happens well it's kind of like in the

movie diehard three where they set it up where they were sending everybody into the schools because there's bombs in the schools and then they wanted to get the federal reserve so that's the mentality of course we're going to send the police someplace and then we're going to rush in everywhere else of course it's open season so you're a hundred percent right so nothing was stopping so in the back of my mind i'm thinking all right i i i want to get down there right away and everybody did so when i get into work everybody's there obviously now there's only a certain number of cars you know there's 200 there was over 300 cops in my precinct so you know all told but of course there's not 300 working all the time you are three tours you have the day you

have the afternoon and the midnight so but now everybody's in so there's not enough cars not enough radios either so not enough radios so i get to in, get dressed, they have everybody that's in meet upstairs. It's chaos. Obviously, it's chaos. I mean, this is the logistical behemoth, the likes of which nobody has ever imagined, right? The logistical nightmare that you just never want to envision. That's what we are dealing with now. So they get everybody meeting the roll call, meet in the roll call room. Everybody's in there. We're going to dish out the assignments. So they, of course, you still have to dish out your sack the cars to patrol the precinct right like i said you can't just abandon the precinct you have to do

that uh everybody else now there's also a lot of targets that have to be looked at we still don't know what's going on right listen what's going on right now with with what's going on iran there are targets they have extra officers assigned to synagogues or this or my okay you want to talk about mosques guess where i was assigned that day alpha you're going to stand in front of us mosque it's over here I said, okay. Hey, you go where you're assigned. But you're going to guard this mosque. I said, all right, how am I getting there?

Figure it out. Figure it out. You know, obviously, there's no, you know, get a ride. Tell us one of the sectors, whatever you've got to do. They say, wink in and nod, take your own car. Get the hell out there. And just to refresh everybody's recollection here, how much time do you have on the job at this point? Five years.

Five years on. So I'm not like a I'm not a rookie, you know, I'm at Toppe. But, you know, there are plenty of guys that are senior to me that are there too, obviously. You know, and there's guys that are younger, but there are plenty of guys that are, you know, eight, nine, 10, 15, 20 years. Of course. But no, they said to me, figure it out, get a car, take your own car, week and a nod, get out there. I said, I don't have a radio.

And I kind of had a problem with that because I'm by myself. I wasn't even partnered with somebody, you know, one with the radio, one without. I get it. But I'm like, I don't have a radio. I said, quite frankly, and I gave the sergeant, I'm not going out without a radio. I said, I'm just not doing it. I said, because, you know, as a cop, the one thing they tell you, the most important thing you carry, isn't your gun, isn't your, you know, your taser or your peppers, it's your radio. Your radio is the most important thing you have, because if you need help, the only way we're going to know is if you have that radio and you tell us.

And again, this is 2001. It's not where everybody's out there with a cell phone who can go, oh, my God, there's a cop and truck. It doesn't exist. Nobody's driving around the car, whatever the phone. Maybe 10, you know, I had a cell phone, but it looked like a brick. Nobody was, cell phones weren't the same back then. And certainly nobody had cameras on them. So, you know, but the radio is important. So just to highlight that point and to share a story with you and I'll be very quick about it.

Because you have me like I'm watching a movie right now. You know, I'm in a stolen car pursuit, middle of the night, you know, single unit pursuit. You know, my buddies on the other side of town. You know, but they, you know, like you said, communicating on the, on the, on the car radio where I'm at. Guy crashes into the front of a house. I go put my car right on his driver door so he can get out. Of course, he just jumps out the window of my hood. Now it's foot pursuit.

Right. And so in, I know people think we're nuts, but we love that. And so now we're foot pursuit, the middle of night. We're in the neighboring city. So I'm not even in my city. We're in the neighboring city of Palm Springs. And I'm on the radio. And I'm, and I'm doing because I was, it's, I'm right about, I was somewhere.

close to you probably in that three to five year range when this went down and i'm putting out phenomenal locations of where i'm at right jumping fences like we're in backyards now you know three houses you know north you know of this street right and then i realize this patch ain't communicating back with me well jumping one of those fences my ht disconnected from the mic oh man so now and i can hear the sirens like the boys are there they don't have any idea where I'm at Jay horrible feeling and and I'm and I know the guy I'm chasing because I recognize on I know I'm chasing a known gang member right and so you know know some would argue discontinue but again three to five years you're getting

yeah right you're not as smartest you're not a smart as you want now that's sure you don't have you don't have the maturity of the 10 year guy yet right or the 20 year guy you're just like I'm not I'm no I'm not getting away from this guy's not getting away right because you'll never get him tomorrow back then now i gotta get him now you know because he's gonna go to life and i'll never commit another crime right he's not gonna get probation another six times you know anything like that yeah and so ultimately it ends into a fight and so we're fighting in the backyard i can hear the sirens the dudes are by my you can imagine i can imagine all my partners felt you know dispatch is asking for updates you're not getting

an update you know we start thinking the worse yeah finally the homeowner here's the commotion opens the backside or what's going on and it's just like police call that one tell them where you're at and you know and eventually we get there but it's to that point you know that that moment right there jay for the next 10 to 12 years of my career guess what i was doing in every other foot pursuit that followed checking doing a hand check while i'm running doing a hand check while i'm running because i never wanted to feel that feeling of not having that radio that you're articulating to the audience Because I agree with you. That in your gun right there.

And the radio, the radio is going to save you, you know. And I wanted to share that story. So people know that piece of equipment means that much to us. Absolutely. And that's why I was so, so, you know, I said, and I, and I, I wasn't a union delegate at that time. We'll get that out a little later if you want. But I ran for union delegate with very little time on, with four years on. And I almost won.

I was, I said, in the beginning of this interview, I've always had a mouth. I've never kept on the radar. I let people, you know, I speak. And I said them, I said, nobody should be going out there without a radio. And I said, and if they don't, they should be partnered with somebody that is. I said, we don't know what's going on right now, especially. So I said, I'm not going without a radio. And he relented and he found somebody.

He said, he found two people going out together, which each had a radio. Said, give me your radio. I said, okay. Thank you. Now we'll go. No problem. Do you think I wanted to go guard a mosque? No.

I didn't want to go guard a synagogue. I wanted to go down the World Trade Center. But I, that's not. that works so i went and i went and guarded the mosque i didn't want to be in the sector car in the one in my precinct i wanted to be at the world trade center but i went because that's what you do and i understood why we didn't want people you know taking their own vigilante actions against people who had nothing to do with anything they were just going into the mosque to worship we didn't want that we didn't want that at synagogue we don't want that at churches so i got i understood

why i was sent there and that was my assignment and i went And I had that assignment for probably three days straight. I didn't get down to the World Trade Center to Ground Zero, probably until about four or five days where they started rotating people to go down there. So that was my story on 9-11. And the people that would come to the mosque, and I've told this story in spaces and would be very appreciative that I was there. Thank you for being here. We really appreciate your service. And thank you for protecting us.

and they said really, you know, sorry about everything that's going on and we appreciate you being here. So I never had a bad experience with anything, you know, guarding that mosque and even people who walked by, nobody was mad that I was there, not even people who weren't Muslim. They weren't mad. They said, oh, you know, so how are you, you know, people loved us after that day for a while, Alpha. I mean, that was the one time where the police got the respect they deserved from pretty much everybody because that was a clear visual for what they do every single day just not to that public and event or to that scale of an event. But it's every day that things like that happen where cops and firemen and EMTs run into things that people all run away from. And we get why they run away from it.

But we run towards it. Is that what we put our right hand up to do. You know and I know, like you said, you're watching, you know, the 40,000 foot view of the towers and you're just like, you're running in there. And, you know, a lot of other people recognized it, the civilian people. They probably didn't say it, but I think one of the reasons people loved our first responders so much after that day is because people knew that, you know, you're playing roulette. Not everybody running in there is going to be able to run out. Like people knew people are going to die.

You know, the news broadcasters were already talking about these buildings collapsing. Like they were interviewing people while the, well the place was still burning. And, you know, as a public, you start hearing that. And you're seeing, you know, these, these blue uniforms and these, you know, you know, firefighter yellow jackets, you know, running in and running in, you're just like, like these people have families too. You know, some of these people, you know, just had a kid, the newlyweds, you know, whatever the case from being new grandparents, like there's a lot of lives are going in there.

And I think that people realize, you know, these people are willing to die for people they don't know. And I think that added to the, to the culture of a horrible experience, but it probably is. And in my lifetime, I've never seen the country more unified. right in the days in weeks and months that that followed that oh no not even close not even close and what i'll say is this and it doesn't make me special in any way shape or form if i happened to be down there that day when that happened for whatever reason say i was going down to rector street where ccrb to civilian complaint review board was whatever say i had a court date down there whatever that day if i was down there i probably would have died i probably i would have had a good

chance of dying that day because of doing what i was going to do and i said that that doesn't make me special it just makes me doing my job but those people that did the firefighters the police officers and there were plenty of civilians that were heroic that day as well we know of a few of the stories the man with the i believe the yellow bandana i mean there there are stories and there were civilians that went above and beyond not even their job just because they were decent good people who were heroes that day they're all heroes uh and they will be ever forever be heroes there has not been one day since 9-11 that I haven't thought about 9-11 once in a day. Not once. Not a day. It's always entered my mind at least once. I hear you. You know, I look back and wonder how the course

of things would have changed from me because two days later, I was in the recruiting office of the Marine Corps. Awesome. See, that's what I'm talking about. That's heroic. That is heroic. And I'll call you a hero for doing that because you are. So I'll just say it. You don't have to say anything. I appreciate that, Jay. And the interesting thing is, and this is why I say so many lives change is because when I went into boot camp, you know, and I remember we're in one of these classrooms where they have the big screen and they're showing us the old, you know, military movies as training,

motivation, psychological, who knows why. But we're in there. And one of the drill instructors comes in and he says, who in here signed up after 9-11? And literally was the end to every recruit. that was in that building there probably had to be a good two 300 of us everybody was in there had had signed up after 9-11 which means everybody knew where we were going yeah like you knew we're going to go to war yeah and and there's that generation uh and i'm sure the army was the same way in the navy in the air force you know um you know this was everywhere you had this generation

of new war fighters built off that event regardless whatever people you know believe and subscribe to when it comes to that that event as it was unfolding and as it was told to us created you know that environment you know that this warfighters but here's the other thing i'd like you to could kind of address we were all kind of like breathing heavy because of that happened you're going to work but these are your co-workers you know how's that environment the next couple of days i just and i know this is a heavy question but you guys are showing up to to these sites and these scenes and you know people that wear the same uniform as you are are as in the rubble like that's got to be a hard way to still work man it is uh and every night over the radio

once they knew who was missing who had perished they would put over to radio the names every night you know to uh just but it was i don't know i have a hard time believing that that was 25 years ago it's you know i really do it feels like like yesterday. And I think it'll always feel like yesterday. It doesn't matter how much time goes on. For the rest of my life, it's going to feel like yesterday for a lot of people. And the story you just told about your journey and how that inspired you. And I mean, that's amazing. And because as you said, yes, we did our job. We knew what had happened, but we do our job. Just like you knew, yeah, you were going to, you weren't going in there just to go to, you know, get the GI Bill.

You were going in there. You knew that, yeah, I'm going to go and face some really serious crap here, but I'm doing it for my country. That's tremendous. I mean, that's heroic. And I just, that's where I guess I just would leave it there. It's, there was a lot of heroic things done. Not by me, by a lot of people that I can only hope to live up to in some way someday. I would say what you, what you did and others is still heroic because you didn't.

didn't have to show up anymore after that i couldn't not do that i i couldn't not show up i have to show up like i said it wasn't it wasn't even it was it was it was wanting to get down there in the worst way and like i said i didn't get down to ground zero for the first time until about four or five days later and it looked like a movie set it's something you can't believe it's surreal it's it says this can't be real and uh yeah it it was real and it's still real because i didn't lose anybody that I knew personally that day, but you know them. You understand that. You don't have to know them personally to know them.

They're still you. But over the years since, I've lost plenty of people from 9-11 related illnesses because of what went on down there and the air that we were told was safe to breathe, but obviously wasn't. So it's, yeah, it's just something that's never going to go away. You know, if you don't mind sharing, I see a flag that's over your shoulder. Is that related in any way? Glad you asked that.

This flag was when I, we can get to this, but I left the NYPD to go to the Port Authority Police. The Port Authority Police are the Department that actually has jurisdiction over the World Trade Center. The NYP doesn't patrol the World Trade Center site itself. That's the Port Authority Police. It's Port Authority property. So I went to the Port Authority Police Department. I transferred there in 2002.

too. But I retired from the port of police. This flag, when you retire, they do a very nice thing for you. They take a flag that they fly over the World Trade Center and they put it in there for you. And they give it to you when you retire. So that flag was flown over the World Trade Center a couple of days before I retired and then given to me, presented to me when I left. So it's very special. I have my original. dog tags, the ones that were, you know, one around my neck, one on my boot, you know, when,

when I went to war. And out of all the stuff that I've been issued, you know, ribbons and commendations, and you probably understand this because of the flag. If anybody asked me, what's the most special thing I have for my service? It's none of, not even my dress blues. It's those dog tags, because I feel like they have a shared experience with me. You know, like I said, one around my neck, one on my boot. And, you know, I have the green screen behind me. But if it wasn't, they're actually hanging there. Original ones, original rubber, you know.

That's like my flag like that you have, you know. It's, I feel you on that, man. Yeah. It's a part of you. It's something that's a part of you. And you see, this is the world's little thing of the Twin Towers right there. And that's a replica of a Port Authority RMP, radio motor patrol that's we call rmps the cars are rmps and uh yeah that's my blue line flag so yeah it's

just a part of you it doesn't go away uh they'd never will you know so and um you know what what made you go for uh you know over to the port authority was that something you always wanted to do were you looking for a change what what was that motivation well i the nypd is is a tough place to work it was not for a lot of money um and i didn't take the job for the money i took the job because I wanted to do the job. I went at the NYPD, but when you're there, you're like, man, this is, we're getting screwed here. And the environment wasn't great. It's a very enforcement driven environment at that time, which I get, but it shouldn't be the end or be all. It shouldn't determine your career, uh, kind of ladder, but it did. And a very stressful

environment overall, a lot of great guys. I mean, great guys and girls. I mean, you always say you don't miss the circus, you miss the clowns, you know, but then that's how it is, right? But I took the Port Authority test in 1998. I was on the job already for two years with the NYPD, but I took the test in 98 to see maybe leave my options open if I really don't see myself going anywhere with the NYPD. And I took the test in 98, never heard anything. Port Authority paid more. It was a better environment to be in, not as hectic, just a better job.

So I took the test of 98, never heard anything. 9-11 happened. Now, as I said, the Port Authority lost 37 police officers, not all police officers of all ranks, 37 members, that's the largest single-day loss of any police department in the history of our country. And they lost 37 that day. And the Port Authority is also the police are also responsible.

Newark Airport, JFK Airport, LaGuardia Airport, World Trade Center, Port Authority, bus terminal, death train, keep going. and they're all high targets, high, high visibility targets that would want to be struck. So obviously they had to beef up their manpower. So after 9-11 happens, they start going back to that 98 test, which I think was going to die on the vine. So I never would have got called. But they had that test still active, that list.

So they went back to that list and cross-referenced because when you take the test, they'll ask you, are you a current police officer if so where? So you put that on there. So what they were, they went back and cross-reference that test and they said, all right, we're going to try to get these people and take them because we need to beef up and we need to do it fit. We need to do it fast. So they did as they started calling people off that test. And a lot of them were NYPD because we all took it because we wanted to move on because we're like, this isn't going anywhere for us. And this department's just getting worse and worse. And for a lot of reasons, which we won't get into now.

But I end up getting called. And what they would do is they would put us through a quick three-month academy because all they had to teach us was New Jersey law. We had the New York law. It's the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. Also covers the George Washington Bridge, the Holland Tunnel, the Lincoln Tunnel. So any crossing that goes over to Hudson River between New York and New Jersey is Port Authority Police jurisdiction. So I had to learn New Jersey law, but it's still quick, three-month academy, boom, you're on.

Now you're out. We got you. Now we could put you at JFK. We could put you at LaGuardia. We could put you with the bus terminal. We could send you down to ground zero. That's how I got on to the Port Authority police. Same pension system.

So my time up front, as far as my retirement date counted, six years. my retirement date of 2016 never changed if i wanted to leave in 20 i was still good to go i got on and things took off from there for the rest of my career from 2002 so let's let's highlight some of the the happy moments and i know that the 9-11 one and the fallout from that is is hard but i want to make sure the audience understands that and that's why i wanted to spend a good portion of time there when you look back at your career and if you had to pick a moment where you're like, you know, I'd live that day one more time. Is there a day that sticks out? Yeah, I would just say for me, it was when I got elected as a union delegate. That I was

most, that I was most proud of because again, you're being elected by your peers, the people that you work with every day, putting that trust in you to represent them if they get in trouble, or to be a leader of the servant of them, you know, to serve them as talking to the, operational on to talking to the management to talking to you know what I mean to making sure they're being treated right to making sure their rights aren't being violated when I when I got elected I ran for union delegates I said with the NYPD with four years on which was unheard of and a lot of people like I'm not voting for you I love you but I'm not voting for you just because you don't have enough time on but I still came close I only lost that election in a precinct of 300 people by about

14 votes and people said listen you'll get it one day just you'll wait you'll get it then I went but then I left I went to the Port Authority police and they have their own police union So when I first got there, I said, I'm going to put my name into the first election I can just to get my name out there. I'm not expecting to win. Nobody knows me yet. But I want them to know that this is something I'm interested in. So as the years went on, I got on there in 2002, ran a few times, lost. 2009, ran again.

And a lot of people like, yeah, we're ready for you now. They were like, yeah, you're a little too, you're a little too this, a little too bad. You're kind of too loud sometimes. I get that. I get, but guess what? When you answer, when my phone rings, guess who's going to answer it? Me? I'm answering the phone.

You don't got to worry about that. I'll answer the phone and I'm going to do every. I will go through a brick wall for you to help make sure that you are treated right. And that what you're doing to you is, you know, adjudicated properly. So people eventually got me. And then in 2009, I won that election. And then I won a few more after that before I got promoted to sergeant. And then, of course, that's a different union, so I was no longer a union delegate.

But that, the proudest moment for me was when I finally got elected by my peers to take that position, because that's quite a responsibility. And I loved it. It was a lot of work. And I did a lot of things there where, you know, I did get a couple of things done. And it's political. It is a political realm on a smaller scale, but it is politics. And just getting small things done within a precinct of 350 people is something that,

my God, I can't imagine with somebody like a president goes through or people in Congress sometimes. It's a lot. But to answer you question, that was my proudest moment of my career. And just to expand on that picture you painted, just so people know, you know, from a guy that wore the badge too, you know, when you're picking your union guys, you know, like you're looking for bulldogs. Because these are these are men or women that are going to have to be in a position where you the rank and file, you're demanding it. We want this to either start or stop. You know, this is where you're at. And a lot of times you're expecting this bulldog to go against the upper echelon that if you don't navigate it right, it could be career ending stuff for that person in that position.

So that person, you are knowingly putting you. yourself in the middle of if I don't do this right, you know, I may never get some of this other stuff. But also, I got to go and work with these guys all the time. It is a rough gig. A very rough gig. It's a thankless job. It's something you really have to want to do. And I got to be honest, when I got promoted, it was right about the five year mark of being a delegate. And I was like, man, I think I'm pretty, I think I was going to be kind of done. I kind of burned out on it. And I'm glad I did it. But I was like, I think I might be done anyway. and I'm going to leave it to maybe some younger blood to come in now and take my spot.

But it's funny you say, they want a bulldog. But at the same time, like, I don't know, you might be too much of a bulldog. And then when they finally, when I finally got the job and they said, all right, you know, we're going to back you. And I won pretty convincingly, me like, we're going to back you. We think you're the right man. And when I did it, like, yeah, we made the right choice. You always answer your phone. You're always there for us.

You're doing what you can do. We understand your heart's always in the right place. And it was, but again, to me, that was the most rewarding to hear that coming from the people, like you said that you work with that's a lot of trust to put in somebody because as you said things happen the first person that's going to be there is your union delegate you know eventually the lawyer is going to be there but the union delegate's the first one there who's going to tell you the real important stuff right off the bat as soon as something happens whether shut your mouth go here do this do that and yeah so it's a very it's a a big position to be in but i loved it

i did the the second shooting i was in the first person i talked to within minutes of that shooting was my union president. This is, this is what you say, you know, this is what you don't say. You wait till we get there, right? Right. You know, you know, how many bullets you fired? What direction? What was behind them?

Like, right. It doesn't matter how justified you think it is. That's what you're saying. And granted, I was very fortunate during the time of my first two shootings that we had a solid police chief. You know, you know, because on the first one, you know, the police chief was there, you know, because he lived in that city. And he's, you talk to a union president yet? I have no, sir. Okay, we'll call them.

Yeah. I'm going to go check on this all right here. Yeah, I got to take a phone call. Go talk to him, please. I'm kind of, yeah, go talk to him. You don't want to talk to me first. And just to clear the air that it's not for anything that's cover up or conspiracy. No. It's just so people understand that there's a way things have to be said, so they're not taken out of context. Exactly. And that's important. It's like with anybody else, you're told by counsel, here's the things that you should or should not say

that, like you said, could be misconstrued, taken out of context, used against you. You know, that's why the right to remain silent, right? It could be used against you. That's the thing. So that's what, that's basically what it comes down to. It's nothing like, oh, we're covering this up. No, no, no. We just want to make sure that everything is going to be done properly by the book, by the procedure.

and that's basically what it's all about. We got about 17 minutes, Jay, so I want to make sure I capture some other parts of your life, and I definitely want to let people know what you do and how you do things now in a rapid fire. Does family life, wife, kids, when does that kind of enter the picture of your life? Oh, that happens. Married in 2002, which was about a year after 9-11, and then a couple of kids divorced. Now I'm remarried. with now two beautiful stepdaughters and I have my my beautiful kids too so yeah I mean life is good

married to an amazing woman and yeah we're just living the dream now I'm retired now since 2022 doing what I'm doing on social media which I want to definitely get into with you and I'm just loving it I mean I'm allowed to talk now alpha I'm allowed to say what I want couldn't really do that for a long time as you know you can't really speak your mind completely you have freedom of speech when you're on one of those jobs and quite frankly you don't have freedom of speech i want everybody to stand you don't have freedom of speech if you're working for somebody else ever okay that's just the way this is okay you don't get to just say what you want when you work and represent somebody else now especially when you represent a police department which is representing

government you don't just get to speak your mind so i i was on social media you know for a long time but i always kind of towed the line you know and i i made i made sure i didn't push the envelope i knew how far I could push it. But now that I'm retired, I get to come on show with you and we get to have this conversation. I mean, what's better than that? There's not very much that that's better than that. And the reason I laugh about the union thing is, you know, I was our union secretary. And, you know, and, you know, the president and the VP, like they have their hands full. But, you know, I was, I was the liaison between the rank and fall guys and these guys, right? You know, you got to tell some guys sometimes like, I'm not going to them with that shit, man.

You know what I mean? Like, your stuff I got to go to them with, it ain't that, bro. Yeah. And people get pissed, you know. Oh, yeah. But it, one of the reasons why is because when you say, I was loud, like, I, I already know, you know, the kind of type of personality. You got to be in for that. And I remember a story. I'll be real quick because I want to get into yours, you know, watch commander. Actually, I know it was the lieutenant. Uh, same last name. We weren't related. Thank God. pulls me into his office one day, right? And he's just like, you know, because I was a kind of guy, you know, that Marine Corps mentality stayed with me. Like you stand up for your guys.

And a lot of these guys that promoted or, you know, that were now watch commanders and lieutenants and stuff. I work with these guys when they were patrol guys. Like that's the window that I came in. And I would see them harping on these, these younger guys. And, you know, and I'd call them out. I'd be like, hey, we did the same thing. You know, you're barking on these guys because they're hanging out at A&P at 2 in the morning for an hour and a half. We were there for three drinking monsters and smoking menthols. Like,

you know what I mean? Like hypocrisy, right? Right. And so he calls me in one day and he's just like, you know, you'll start getting these assignments you want, you know, when you stop going against the grain, right? Because I had the numbers and I had the stats, but like you, you know, I, I had one of these too. Right. And so I remember I go home that night, Jay, and I'm contemplating, you know, do I want to keep pushing them black and white? Like, I already should have two special assignments, you know, under my belt, you know, because you're starting to think, you know, sergeant, you know, you're starting to think career path. Right. And I remember said, maybe I just may, I just got to soften up a little bit. The very next day, Jane,

the very next day. We go into briefing, that lieutenant's in there. He's, he's substituting for a watch commander. He says something and I fire one out, right? I did in a respectful way, but I fire one out. And he just kind of looked at me like, never going to change, is it? Never, never going to change. Now the good thing is very shortly after that, we had a, because that was during the time we had a weak police chief. It was literally the under brass that was running that agency. We get a good chief that comes in there and he recognized who deserved it versus who was using networking. And one of the greatest things that happened for that agency. And I remember he pulled me into his office.

And he goes, look, I'm going through all the stat sheets. And you should already be on some of these assignments or a detective. So you tell me. what's going on with you. Because I've heard what other guys have told me. And I just said, I just said, you know, I know sir, when I see things that, that are wrong, you know, I, I open my mouth. And right. Maybe I should work on that.

He goes, no, you shouldn't. You see things that are wrong. You should open your mouth. Yeah. That's, that's a good theater. He goes, if we do that for the public, why wouldn't we do that for our own guys? Yep. That's a good boss.

And he, and I'm telling you. And I was already getting apprehensive, Jay, because he was bringing everybody. to his office one by one and we're trying to figure out is he going by seniority is he going by alphabet you know us like we're trying to figure this yeah and there was no pattern i just know 90 of the guys already got you know like like damn you know why is he saving some of us for the last you know and it would turn out that the ones he saved for last you know we had some of the closest relationships you know with them and he and he told me he goes look just understand i'm going to judge you from this conversation on so whatever i think about you and because of what he said or she said

that it's going because of what you showed me. That's a good boss. That's a good boss. Oh, yeah. That's what you're looking for. That's what you're looking for. There are few and far between, by the way, just so everybody knows, but that's a good boss.

And you were a sergeant, you know? Yeah, well, I got promoted, and it's fine. I got promoted real quick because I was a bulldog. That actually helped me in that regard. Finally, kind of like you, somebody kind of saw that and said, no, this guy's doing the right thing. This guy's doing it for right reasons. Let's, he deserves it. He deserves it.

You know, and I don't like to think of it. way I was just doing my job. And if doing my job got me that, all the power to it. So that's what happened. How hard was it to walk away? When I walked away, it wasn't that hard. I was done. I had enough. I was 25 and a half years. I think I froze. Am I frozen? No. You're good. Okay. I see my thing spinning around. It was 25 and a half years. It was enough time. My numbers were good for my pension. I put enough in. I was, you know, knock on wood. healthy. I wanted to walk away my own terms. I didn't want to get greedy. And that was it for me. I left on my terms. I don't regret it. Again, miss the clowns, not the circus. And yeah,

I have no regrets whatsoever of retiring. I'm very happily retired. Let me ask you one more question. Some would probably consider it a dark question, but I do want to ask you, you know, when when I look back at, you know, military service in combat, there were guys that I served with. And these were like the men's men, Jay, like the Marines Marine. Like these were some bad dudes. And over the years, you get that phone call, hey, so-and-so committed suicide. It's also committed suicide. And, and I remember just being troubled by like, man, these weren't weak guys.

Yeah. Like these, these were like legends. And, you know, and you back of your thought, you know, because you know the way our minds are, you're like, you know, how do I know that ain't going to happen to me? Like these dudes were badass, you know. And, and so it was like, I've always had this nightmare that. It's just kind of lingering back there. And, you know, as I got older, it's farther and farther, farther, farther back. But it exists.

For you, knowing that you're losing friends, you know, to these health-related issues, I would imagine, and this is speculation, I could be wrong, that, you know, you get a cough, you get a cold, you go do a doctor's visit, you know, do you ever, have you ever had, or do you live with the fear of, you know, am I going to get to any of some of these guys got because I was there too? Yeah, all time. I had about, I never had it before a couple years ago. I was getting severe stomach pains.

And I was like, what's going on? It's not going away, a couple of weeks. And I'm like, you know, right away. That's what you're thinking because of everybody else that things have happened to at this age. And it's kind of, you know, good, whatever, right? But it turned out, thank God, knock on wood, it was diverticulitis. Okay? I went.

They're like, no, thank God. But I said, but yes, that thought enters my mind all the time. And I wanted to close the thing you said about the, you know, guys taking their own lives. When I was a union delegate, I tried to do something about that. It never really took off. It didn't get traction. I always wanted to come up. I came up with a slogan, before you put the gun to your head, put the phone to your ear.

Talk to somebody. Anybody, pick up the phone, please, before you make that decision. Because you can't take it back, obviously. So, yeah, there was plenty of people. that too throughout my career i i think i've lost count of how many even starting at my first in the cadet corps in 1994 it started with a friend of mine then that did it and over the years it's been way too many and it absolutely is a problem that needs to be addressed and addressed and addressed with the military obviously with law enforcement 100%. it is and it's why i like having these

conversations with with people like yourself have you ever you know i kind of mentioned this TV before the show to get us into what you do now have you ever wondered like what's it like to be a regular guy you know do you do you feel jay like we missed out on that you know like just to be a regular dude you know because i'm townie man and people probably and maybe i am weird you can let me know you know there be times that i'm in the black and white driving you know and joe's plumbing trucks next to me and i'm like man like dude you got it made you don't know You know you're going to be off Saturday and Sunday. You know at 4.30, you're off.

And they know I'm going to shoot at you where you're going. And people aren't going to be talking trash. Like you get to listen to radio and you get to go hang out with you. Like, do you ever have, you know, that thought, man? Yeah, but yeah, I think I've had that thought about every day of my life. So. Yeah, you know, when I was working, absolutely. I mean, all the time, like, man, yeah, that guy, like you just said,

the guy driving the plumbing truck. or the electrician, whatever. I'm like, man, that must be nice to not have to worry about, you know, how many summons is am I going to write this month or am I going to get in trouble? Or if I get into a bar fight, I'm going to be on the front page in a newspaper, you know, and I can't just go into, you know, with my friends and laugh about it the next day because I'm not a regular person. But I always, the thought always came back to me, hey, I signed up for that eyes wide open. I got to act a certain way.

I'm held to a higher standard. I knew that coming in. So that's kind of how I reconciled it. but you're absolutely right. Part of the reason I love being retired, I feel like I am a regular guy now. No, not totally because I still have all these crazy things in my head from all those years, right?

I'll never be totally normal, but I feel like I'm as a regular guy now than I'll ever be in my life and I'm happy to be. I couldn't wait to retire. As I said, have a conversation like this with you and be on social media and be on X and now be on my own podcast with my partner,

Jack, and we're doing this podcast. I could never have dreamed of something like that while I was still working. Alpha just couldn't happen. So yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. The exact same thought. You're not crazy. You're not retarded. You're not any of that. Good. I love that reassured. So and now we're here. You're you're behind a microphone, you know, and like you said, you know, as a detective, how to get out sound bites. I'm sure as a sergeant, you got to communicate with

the media and stuff like that. But even then, we still don't got full blown free speech that we can only give out certain information. Now you're in a position. The microphone is yours. whatever you want to say you can say how did that unfold and and where are you at now with that you mentioned your partner some stuff you did um break this all down for us yeah well what would happen was you know once i retired my wife said to me you know you should go on x it's a you know especially once Elon bought it and i was right around when i was retiring and she said you got to go on there it's like forget facebook forget about it you're wasting your time for you know the nobody's she said you got to get on you got to get on people want to hear you they like to hear what you say

I'm like, they do. Because you would hear me talking to people at parties or gatherings and just, no, she's like, yes, people. I go, okay. So I get on X and it kind of started. And you've got to get into spaces. You've got to get into spaces. You've got to talk. I said, all right.

So I started going to the spaces. And I think the first one I really went into was a punch bowl with, you know, Miss G and Margo and Bishop and talking to them. And, you know, now they've actually become very, you know, good friends of mine. I consider them friends of mine now. They are. And, but that's how I got started on this journey. And then I started hosting a space.

And now I host the space every week night with my. my wife and with rodin and we talk about the economy and it's called main street meets wall street is there every night at 5 30 p.m on x and then uh my the the person i do the podcast with now jack danger i had seen him doing a show and i like oh i like his show i like this show and i would started talking to him with dms and then a couple times we would talk like we should just go live together not your show your show is your show said we should just go live and blah blah he's like yeah so we did a couple of lives and it went really well we had great chemistry and then And it turns out his partner that he was doing the show with for about a year.

It's called Secret America. And he wanted his partner, wanted to move on. You know, I think he was a little older. He wanted to retire, take it easy. And then, you know, mean Jack talked. And it's like, you know, he's like, I think it would be a good fit. We've already done a couple of lives. Let's go for it.

And now we have, you know, it's me and him every night now on the Secret America podcast. And it's on X. And now we're on LFA TV with Jeremy Herald's network, which, you know, Sean Farish is on and Kevin Smith and a bunch of other great people. So we do that. It's every night. And at 7 o'clock on X, on Rumble, on LFA TV, on YouTube, on everything, on everything, kind of like your show, you know, and we just put it everywhere and we're having a great time. And it's just kind of just building it up now with me and him as, you know, with me as his partner now.

So it's great. I love it. It's what I've ever dreamed this alpha? No, no. No. What about you? Like, look what you're doing now. Same thing, right?

It's like, wow, where did this come from? And 7 p.m. Eastern, right? I want to make sure we get the right. 7 p.m. Eastern. Yeah, 7 p.m. Eastern. Just so people know, if somebody would have told me in 2019, 2020, you're going to be doing a podcast, I would have looked at them. Laughed my ass off. Like, I don't know.

I don't even like doing sound bites. You're going to talk about a camera and a microphone. Yeah, good luck with that. I'm going to be chasing bad guys and jumping fences for the rest of my life. That's where I'm going to be. But we're here, you know, and it serves a purpose. Um, but one time because, yeah, I want to make sure, you know, if you went through that fast, because of the excitement, we're, all the places people can find you in the different times just to make sure people caught it. Yeah.

It's the, well, it's called my, my, uh, part of Jack Danger and he's at Jack Danger live. I'm at Opinions vary with an A, A, A P, I N-I-N-O-S. It's opinions because I couldn't get opinions. It was gone. But so it's opinions vary and he's at danger, that Jack Danger live. And it's at Secret America TV. and we are on every weeknight, Monday to Friday, 7 p.m. Eastern, and we're on X at Secret America TV. It's every, every platform outfit, America TV.

Rumble, X, kick, TikTok, Instagram, you name it. And as I said, we are broadcasting on LFA TV network. That's at LFA TV, U.S. And that's also the Rumble channel they have. So we're there too. Every night, 7 p.m. Eastern, Monday to Friday. Right on. Well, my audience knows this is the part of the show.

And you'll find all those links down the description, folks. You know, this is the rapid fire section. I got some questions. Series of questions we'll choose from. Some of these be personal, some serious and some humor to mix it in with. Don't think too hard into these things. There's some, you know, some quick responses. Whatever comes off the head.

And if it's one that just gives pause, we'll just move to another one. I got plenty to choose from. So here's the first one. Three words that. that define you. Loyal, intense, dedicated. I like that.

I like that. I like that. Especially the intense is between those two. I don't know about the order, but that there you go. Next one. What do you believe civilians

biggest misunderstanding about cops is? Why didn't you just shoot the gun out of his hand? yes dude yes that that that is a perfect one i like that one all right uh for you know a little lighter part of it long island pizza or somewhere else oh no come on come on really man no long island pizza's great new york city pizza fantastic that's it nowhere else there you have it I got to try some New York pizza, man.

Oh, you'll never go back. You'll never go back. You know, I do, but then I'm like, shouldn't I? You know, I was in Boston, you know, a few months ago. And I tried one of their lobster rolls. Absolutely freaking delicious. Okay. Now, if I ever have a lobster roll, it's not going to compare it.

Right, right. You're going to spoil it for yourself for the rest of your life. So I got it. Unless you're going to move here, maybe don't try it. So maybe I should. I just unless I decided to go northeast. All right, next one. What matters more now to you than it did 20 years ago?

Oh, I mean, geez, wow, that's, that's, I'm going to say health. Without health, you have nothing. Of course, it's family. It's, you know, that, of course. But without health, everything else, you know, takes a back seat. So knock on wood, it's health. And always thinking about that. younger you think you're immortal just like when you're doing that foot pursuit right you wouldn't have done that

the same way now no there you go now it be on that radio you know one male description going eastbound yeah you can start a perimeter get them tomorrow see you later let's listen i know there's enough you close let's shut down this block let's call in the bird and then we'll find them hiding under the pull cover is what's going to happen. Yeah, whole whole whole different way. Yep. All right. Uh, honesty or loyalty? You can only pick one. I'm going to pick honesty. I guess because if you're going to, man, man, that's a tough one. I'm going to have to say. It is a tough one because they both, I mean, they're both so important. But I want people to be, I'd rather people be honest to me than blindly loyal to me. I agree. You know, I, I,

I asked myself some of these questions when I put them together. And that actually is a tougher one. Yeah. You know, especially from the career paths that we chose. Yep. So your most irrational pet peeve. No. I don't know.

Maybe. Oh, God. Maybe not. We have to phone the wife for this one. Yeah. Maybe I'm just going to leave this one alone. I don't know because I don't want to. Yes.

That one might get me in trouble. I'm going to leave that one alone. Move to the next one. Taking the fifth. All right, we'll move to the next one. The funniest thing about your retirement. The funniest thing? The funniest thing.

How fast it's going. That's what's funny. It's funny to me how fast time is going. It's faster than when I was on the job. I can't believe it. I mean, flying. Maybe it's just because I'm old now, Alpha, but that's what it's, it's,

funny to me. I laugh sometimes like, oh my God. Like, what happened? I really thought that's another one of those times in your life is where it feels like it's yesterday. And it's just gone. I mean, I guess funny in a good way. Yeah, but that's what's funny to me. I mean, nothing really, I'm going to say this, Alpha, a good day is where there are no surprises. I hear you on that one, man. And you know, You know, I go to trim the beard and I'm like, man, there's that white starting to really overtake. Oh, listen, you're kidding? Look at it. I'm glad I still have it all, but it's, you know, it's great.

Last question, but it's a two-parter. And then we'll call it a night here. If your wife had to describe you with one word, what word is she picking? Oh, my God. And listen, don't, don't hold back here. She was going to describe me with one word. I'm going to just say it. I'm amazing.

I like that. Now, if your kids had to describe you with one word, what are they picking? They're going to say I'm old and I'll tell you another word. Insane. They'll say you're out of your mind. You're insane. I hear you on that. Jay, I've really enjoyed this conversation, man.

That was great. I this this is a we have like I said we're on a bunch of different platforms we're syndicating order to badlands a great group of people over there I'll tell you guys you know I've got to hear this guy speak in a lot of different arenas the punch bull I'm glad you brought up them of just an area full of great people yeah so make sure you guys go down on links and and and follow Jay in these different platforms and I'll probably have to bring you on man so we can have some other conversations on my other show and stuff that we do any final words for the

audience and then we're out here I mean, this was a lot of fun. And, you know, this was great. Your great interviewer, you got a lot of great stuff. I mean, I didn't even know we would talk about. And I feel like we could talk for another two hours. But, no, this was awesome. I really appreciate your audience.

And definitely, you know, follow, follow me and follow the Secret America podcast that were at Secret America TV. You'll get this learn a lot more. And I'd love to come on. And we would, you know, maybe we'd love to get you on Alpha to talk about some stuff going on in the political world for sure. Sure. So we could have some great conversation. So yeah, I'd love to have you on sometimes. So and of course I'd love to come back on this show. This was great, man.

Absolutely. And likewise, I would enjoy it. To the audience, do us a favor. The content was free. Smash thumb, hit the heart. Leave a comment. And just remember, you might not know a person's name, but their story can move you. And if you have one of those stories, reach out to me. It's not just about the people we know. It's about the people we don't know and have a story that needs to be known. So contact me and we'll get you on here. you guys devolution power hours next stick around catch you the next one good night god bless and simplify