Badlands Media - Space Revolution Ep. 15: We Want Peace in Space

Episode Date: April 23, 2026

What if the biggest obstacle to humanity's next great frontier isn't the technology, but us? Lt Gen (Ret.) Steven L. Kwast sits down with cohost Jonathan Drake to kick off a new series of first-principles conversations tackling the question no rocket scientist can answer: is natural law universal? They trade the jet fuel for moral fuel, digging into what the founders actually meant by natural law (spoiler: not "law of the jungle"), why humility, wisdom, and obedience form the only stable launchpad, and how trial by jury was designed as the people's final veto on tyranny. Drake walks through Lysander Spooner's six truths about money and political power, while Kwast shares how his space company is training AI on physics rather than language so it can recognize deception by the laws of nature themselves. The takeaway is bracing and oddly hopeful. If we head into space without sorting out our relationship with each other first, the revolution will be bathed in blood. If we do the work now, we get peace. No pressure.

The badlands, one of the badlands, explain those badlands. That's a hell of a name. If you are not moving forward and exploring and learning and discovering, you are falling backwards. We want peace, and we want a future that trends with less violence. All right, everybody, welcome to Space Revolution and to my wonderful co-host, Jonathan, welcome. Thank you, sir. Good to be here. It's nice to be able to talk to you today and trying to take the next step in this space revolution episode construct.

You know, since the beginning, we've been talking a lot about technology and we've been sprinkling it with, you know, what we need to do as human beings to make sure this goes well. But I'd really like to focus in now with a man of your thoughtfulness and intellect that has been thinking about this for a while to really bore in on the fact that any journey. into a new domain, any journey into a new frontier by the human race, especially when it is dominated by technologies that are new, really force us to question our relationship as a human race with technology because our relationship with technology and our ability to guide it with the purpose of peace, not war, is critical. And ultimately, this comes. down to the fact that any time in history we have gone into a new frontier and we did not have this relationship right. We couldn't and we didn't have rule of law. We didn't have predictability.

It was a disaster and we have to avoid that today. So if we want peace, we have to start with first principles really get ourselves right with regard to our relationship with technology and then we can go forward. So this will be the first in a series of questions that we will talk about, on this show in future episodes, starting with this first one, question one, that you propose, Jonathan, and that is, is natural law universal? So let's start with you and you're thinking on this. Yeah, well, first, thank you very much for having me. It's a pleasure and an honor to speak with you. You're actually the rookie compared to me when it comes to bad lands. Of course, I don't think that's the way it actually applies if we were to line up

and get sorted out. And I'm okay with that. The opportunity to talk about these things is something I'm deeply humbled by, because I've been thinking about this stuff a lot for a long time. And usually it's speaking in to a void, so to speak, and an echo chamber of one. So the fact that Badlands exists, and then someone like John Harold was willing to give me a platform

is something I'm deeply, deeply grateful for because now on a weekly basis, I can talk about these things and, you know, have access to a quarter million subscribers just right out the gate. That was just something I'm deeply thankful for. But in, in some sense, the angle that I'm interested in, you know, you're proposing the question is natural law, universal, which of course has multiple layers of meaning, you know, thinking of the universe and obviously thinking of universal among human beings. it's a question of how we as individuals, you know, most of us are not on the forefront of research and development or implementation of new technologies. You know, how do we position ourselves, our relationships with one another on a local level and a national level and even global level so that when those things are implemented or they're proposed to be implemented or they're talked about, like we're told that they're implemented. how do we prevent being caught off guard on a moral and spiritual level and just end up getting swept along the raging current of social pressure, which most of us in Badlands are as veterans of the COVID era

are unfortunately used to being alone or nearly alone, standing up in the face of what ended up being a trillions dollar PR campaign to push what I believe was a fake pandemic. for nefarious purposes. So we have already built inside us in this community, the ability to stand up against massive pressure and really exercise what, you know, at Gart, I propose the idea that consent equals the authority

to say no. And I feel like that's a muscle that we haven't really exercised as a people in general. You know, there are, as you talked about, that as new technologies come along, we're not very good as human beings, at adapting to them. You think about the fact that up until the railroad in the 1800s,

the fastest that a person could travel for thousands of years was a horse. And then all of a sudden since the 1800s in the span of 150 plus years, we went from horse back to supersonic or hypersonic, like the X-37 project or something like that. Yeah. And then we went from, you know, desktop computers that were, or computers that were inside the size of a room to a desktop computer that was the size of your desk, down to now we have, you know, the computer in the palm of our hand. Such rapid transformation.

And we're, it seems like we're poised to have an even more explosive technological advancement. And it's just coming out of so fast we don't adapt very well. And there's the real temptation to be to act out of fear when it comes to that sort of thing. And, you know, obviously politicians, they make their living using fear as a currency. That's how really the COVID, you know, planemic, as people call it, was able to propagate so quickly because they freaked everybody out. You know, there's those videos of people in China falling over in the streets and all of that. But the ultimate first principle, I believe, is, first of all, that God is. and then understanding as a Christian that God is not given me a spirit of fear but of power and love and a sound mind.

And I want to use that sound mind for my own self, for my own family, but then also to encourage people to put ourselves in the right perspective when it comes to relationships first with each other. Because I think before we even address the relationships that we have with technology, we really need to figure out what does it really mean to be peaceful with one another? is there a process by which we can we can actually learn and figure out almost scientifically studying the nature of human relations and understand, hey, there's these actions that lead to peace and there's these actions that lead to war and we need to make sure we align ourselves with the right one. So that's kind of the baseline of where I'm at and I'll turn it back to you. No, that's a great way to start this conversation.

And you're right. It goes back to, you know, something that I exercised my whole life in the art of war, and that is know your enemy and know yourself. And in a thousand years, you will not lose a battle. But in any journey, it's the same phenomenon that if we don't understand one another and understand ourselves and kind of come together on an agreement of these things that are upstream of a peaceful future, the things that are upstream are our values. And upstream of that are our beliefs, our worldview.

And so this worldview that God has given every creature free will. And that just like it says in the Bible, God said, hey, you guys don't need a king. As long as you follow my precepts, you guys are going to be good because you're going to get along and you're going to be aligned with these values that keep us working together for a peaceful future. but yet we wanted a king. So, you know, the old advice, okay, well, be careful what you wish for because your king is going to tax you to death. I mean, in the Bible, it says the king will steal your men, steal your, you know, to go to war, steal your women to be slaves and working in the castle, steal your money for their coffers. But if you really want a king, they can't have many wives, they can't have much gold, and they can't have many horses.

meaning if they start accumulating wealth, power, and control, then you've lost your freedom. You've lost your way and you are not living consistent with natural law. So this is such a powerful conversation because in order for the human race to come together with some unity to be able to say no, when a company or a government does something in this space revolution that is inconsistent with our values,

if we haven't had this conversation we're going to have today, first with one another. There's no way we're going to be able to organize and throw off the shackles of tyranny that will try to come at us if they can dominate some of the value proposition statements of this face revolution. Yeah, for sure. And there's an aspect of that. We talked about this at Gart that you know, you have, as I mentioned in the studio backstage before we got started, that one of the quotes that you have from yourself in your opening, that if you are deceived in your own arrogance and your own dominance in the past, that what you did in the past is sufficient to win in the future,

eventually you're going to be a dead man. And so to speak to that and then how this all ties together, personal anecdote-wise, but when I was about 18, 19 years old, somewhere in that range, I started going through what I believe is a natural process or should be a natural process for everyone, essentially an existential crisis of faith and belief. Do I really understand what I believe?

Do I really believe what I believe? You know, I was raised Christian, I was raised conservative, I was raised Republican, I was raised homeschooled, which at that time in the early 80s, when my parents started that, that was illegal in California.

So it already started me outside the norm. And most of my life, I was comfortable with that. But 18 or 19, I started questioning, those things because I I group them together as being synonymous with each other like you well you can't be a a Christian and be a Democrat or you can't be a Christian and and not be a homeschooler and I've had some experiences you talk about living in Africa I spent almost two years in in western Sudan in South Darfur yeah and that experience really jarred me and and really drove home this

this process that I was going through and I told mentors that of mine at the time that I felt like I had been walking around in my parents' armor to borrow the metaphor from the Apostle Paul in Galatians regarding the armor of God. And I realized that at that turning point in my life, I had a choice that I could either just ignore this mental, emotional and spiritual trauma and just keep pretending, fake it until I make it, or I was strongly tempted just to cast it all off to the side and walk away and, and, you know, give into the temptations of the world or as I thank God I was convicted to do I could obey Christ and put that armor on for myself but what I realized is that that's not just a one and

done proposition I believe before God our position is secure because it's due to the work of Christ but as far as constantly re-evaluating yourself and re-examining your values and re-examining you know the there's that that line in Game of Thrones that I Burning Bright likes to talk about with the code that has brought you. I think it's Game of Thrones. If your code has brought you here, was it really that good of a code? And so it forced me to realize that there is a process of maturing. Because if you look in scripture and be like, hey, what does the Bible say about what it

means to be a man? You'll find there's not the neat three-point package of, you know, here it is. Here's how you be a man. And so what I've discovered through conversations with friends is that the closest that you'll get to what it means, the Bible telling you what means being a man is in 1st Corinthians 13, the Apostle Paul uses apophatic reasoning, which is a powerful line of reasoning, describing things by what they aren't. And so he describes by what being a man is by describing what it isn't. He says when I was a child, I spoke and reasoned and thought like a child. But when I became a man, I put away childish things. So for him being a man meant don't be a child.

And of course, that has a breadth of ways to interpret that. But the way I've personalized it is when it comes to my own values, when it comes to American values, when it comes to any of those things, we can't just look back to a previous generation what they accomplishes. what they thought and reasoned and think that we're good because they did it. Instead, we have to personalize that stuff. We have to do our own moral work, our own intellectual work, deeply understand those things, examine our lives with humility, examine our systems with humility, and ask, do these things really line up, and then proceed from there?

And I think that that process, and this, you know, it ties in with the coming technologies And this really, to me, undercuts the entire what is the nature of the cosmos question even as far as, you know, there's the flat earth and there's all that kind of stuff, which I would consider myself sort of agnostic with a lot of those things. This undercuts that because this gets at how we relate to one another. And what is natural law? What does that stuff actually mean? Is it worthwhile holding on to? And I think it is. I think it's a conversation that has died out in this country because we've just sort of rested on a lawyer.

from that founding generation and we let the current of history sort of carry us along and we're in a bad spot as a result of it. I appreciate the way you frame that and I couldn't agree more that these conversations are essential. And what is interesting is that because America was so unilaterally dominant, economically, militarily and culturally after World War II, that it really, it almost put to sleep the American public at this constant gardening within our minds and our souls to keep these conversations alive, especially with our children. And so then our children go scampering off to school. You know, we are all happy that we trust our government to take care of things. And we took our eye off the ball. And then in school, they started learning these things, creeping in with, you know, critical race theory.

and all the things that have culminated to where we look around and say, how did we get here? And it was because we did not have these deep conversations about first principles. And what it did is it allowed the ruling class, if you will, to be able to enslave us in a very creative way, where we are voting for people that we think represent us. And then they enslave us under the justification that they had a mandate. But we never pay attention to the policies. We never look closely at the actual laws and their implications. and whether they're consistent with our Constitution, the Bible, or our values.

And so this is one reason I'm so optimistic is the information age we're in, this networked age we're moving into, even though we currently don't have the tools, we now have a fighting chance of shining a light on all those dark places where people have been telling lies and they have been enslaving us in a genteel-type way. you know and i call it a luxurious slavery there you go yeah it's uh it's the gilded cage um you know the bread and circus whatever mental image you want to bring to it and we have all been the boiling frog going down this path and now we we actually have the tools to see and covid was a good wake up uh we got to see that we are in hot water and we better jump out and the question is where do we

jump out of the frying pan into the fire or you know do we we carve out again do we carve out our own thinking i love the way you say that our own thinking our own uh inspection of ourselves and and and so the humility piece is so critical just about every decent leadership book to include the bible talks about humility yeah but there's two other things you need on this as we dive into natural law as the first question here is natural law universal two other things past humility that are downstream of humility but so humility you need at the at the outset and then you know and that and that gives you the self-inspection the self-honesty where you don't just point out a speck in your brother's eye as you have the log in your own eye or the beam in your own eye right

But then that humility has to be then coupled with wisdom. That wisdom comes from learning from the past, watching how our founding fathers and others in the annals of history have done things. And then the last one that's the most important is obedience to the word of them that comes from that humility. Humility, wisdom, and obedience. Because the perfect example is King Solomon. But wisest man that ever lived and ever will live. and and what happened he was wise he knew exactly what to do and that because of that he was wealthy but because he was not obedient and he took hundreds of wives and thousands of chariots and horses and all the gold in the known world he was a bigger disaster than king david king saul or anybody ever since or ever forward so there's a subtext to the story of solomon and it's that being wise is not enough

being obedient is more important than being wise. And you can't have either of those if you don't have humility. Absolutely. And the, yeah, the story of Solomon is a perfect analog to us today because there was, I believe, a lot of wisdom in our founding generation in identifying values that were worth dying for. And, you know, I've talked a lot on my show. I had a 16-week series that I just wrapped up on trial. by jury and the values that are are instilled in the concept of trial by jury are are those natural law deeply rooted programmed into nature behaviors by god of of peace between men like if you want to

and that's really what guess what i mean by natural law too and this might be worth um taking the moment to describe that briefly that oftentimes when people hear the you know the term natural law They think of like law of the jungle, you know, dog eat dog, the strongest survive. That's not what the founders meant by natural law. That's not what Lysander's Spooner meant by natural law. And that's not what I mean by natural law. Instead, you start with the first principle that God is creator and God has established laws in nature that we can observe patterns using our pattern recognition ability. And we can recognize that, okay, if there are patterns, there's an intentionality to the way that,

storms work, the way that lightning works, the way that magnetism works, the way that light functions. If there's those laws there, and we're part of creation, therefore there must be some law that also governs us. And not in like a list that you can find, but more of just, it's something you can discover by process of scientific inquiry or what Spooner points out. And this goes to, I sent to you the essay, the science of justice that is what I recommend people read. If you want to call it homework, you're welcome to. That he outlines in there that children learn what justice means by the process of play as they're in the school yard or in the neighborhood during the summer. They learn, if I do this, I'm going to get punched. If I do this, I'm going to make a friend.

And that's a process that we learned throughout our entire lives. But before you can even learn like the word honesty, before you can even learn what the word, humility means, you actually learn the thing itself. And in fact, you wouldn't even be able to learn the word or understand what the word meant if you didn't already understand the concept. And that concept is something that you, just by process of interacting with other humans, you realize there is a set of actions or a pattern. more of actions that will lead to peace.

It turns out the consent of the governed fits right in line with that. Because if you want to be at peace with your neighbor, you don't violate their consent. And that's something that the founding fathers understood deeply. And then that's something that I think has been lost in this country. We think that if we want it and we just have the larger number, then it's ours to take, the majority rule. And so it then takes humility to realize, like, well, we have the citizens. that inherently operates opposite God's law.

No wonder we pay the most taxes that we've ever paid as a race, ever. And that goes all across the world because we've delegated the responsibility that we should have. And you talk about kids going to school and learning these things. Homeschools looked at, you know, like I said, I grew up in the 80s in California where first it was illegal, then it was very strange because there weren't very many of us. and I kind of wore it as a chip on my shoulder like, yeah, I'm not in school, what of it? But that's looked at as strange. You know what strange is sending your kids off to a government-run school relative to the span of human history?

That's a new concept. And so really taking responsibility for your own children and instilling them in these ideas that, hey, there actually is a creator. There actually is a set of behaviors that we can do that will lead to peace. instead we're letting the marauders teach our children and it's no wonder that we're in trouble we are today yeah i like that and thank you for that and so everybody can see on the screen and i'll put this in the notes for this episode so you can look it up but i think this will be refreshing for everybody to read because it will remind us of things we already know intuitively as human beings and it starts framing out this reality that we have so much power yeah to control our future if we would

only take it and that it's not that complex. You don't have to be a lawyer or a politician. You just have to be a human being. And we can do this. And so, you know, in the category of there's nothing new under the sun, one of the things that is constant through the Bible is this message from God through the prophets saying, if you do what is seems good in your own eyes, it is a road to death. And that is the relativism that we talk about here where if we do not align our behavior consistent with natural law, then everybody's just doing what they think is good in their own eyes and it is the road to death because if you are not aligned to natural law, which God lays out in the Bible and our constitution has framed within our governance structure, then you're going to be wandering off into a wilderness where there is no peace. So if we as a human race truly want a peaceful future in this space revolution, we have to start with these first principles and get back to teaching our children God's way. And our Constitution is the best hope of humanity because there's never been a governance structure that was founded in the values of the Bible like our Constitution. And those values cut across every religion with regard to this natural law.

whether you believe in the Bible or not, whether you believe in Jesus or not, every, every religion has these seeds of natural law that we can intuit and observe as human beings. Yeah, the universality of natural law is a point that Spooner makes in that essay that regardless of culture, regardless of race, there is a, and it's a very short list. really. There is a universally understood injunction against murder, against theft. Because if you distill down what natural law actually is, and you mentioned that it's in scripture. And where it is most explicitly in scripture is when Jesus says, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. And I talked about this in the first 10 episodes of my show, that that is what. That is what, What, I mean, Spooner doesn't describe it that way. He doesn't invoke Jesus in that way, but that is what he is describing is clearly distilled down, which, shock of all shocks, the guy who created it all happens to know what natural law actually is.

So do unto others as you would have them do unto you. And so even analyzing things like the Constitution, which Spooner obviously has problems with and there's certainly, there are problems with it. But the provisions that are in it, you know, the Bill of Rights listing out certain inalienable rights that we have. But then I did that 16-week series on trial by jury. That is the ultimate way for us as Americans, since we have this system, we still have the shell of a trial by jury system. But that is how we can actually exercise our natural law right to say no, to tier. Because Spooner would argue that we have a natural right to resist tyranny. And the way that was best done, he highlights the Anglo-Saxon culture as being probably the most legally free, even more than us, in culture in human history, because they understood that the people had a right to tell the king no.

And they did, and they did that through trial by jury. So we have that in the Constitution. It is mentioned three times in the main body and then in two separate amendments. and that is something that has been lost and that is tragic because it is, you know, we have different tribunals, we have the different branches of government that a law has to pass through before it's considered a law. And he would, Spooner considers that trial by jury as the final tribunal and really the one that ultimately matters because it doesn't matter if the House and the Senate and the president

signs it and it gets challenged and the Supreme Court upholds it. We still have a right to say no if we don't. think that it aligns with natural law. And we've lost that. And you think of the general attitude that we collectively get when you get that jury summons. Oh, man, I got a jury summons. You had some people that are excited about it because they understand it's their civic duty and all of that. But most people are trying to find out ways to get out of jury duty.

And what needs to be brought back is, no, actually, that's where you can, if there's a law that a person is charged under that goes against natural law, then you can say they're not guilty. Even if they by letter of the law, they followed it or they broke it. You can still say, nope, they're not guilty because that law shouldn't be a law. And imagine if more and more people actually use it that way,

we would not have, you know, there's the common understanding that there's no, no one knows the number of laws that we actually have on the books. Because they just keep adding and adding and adding. If we actually used the, constitution the constitutional provision of trial by jury the way that we should have we would still have maybe like a you know a few pages really because at the end of the day we don't really need miles and miles and miles of regulations because if we're operating under a natural law basis of understanding what leads to peace and then making sure our government operates within those bounds uh we would be a lot better off and so going into the future with technology that are coming that you could argue you know we talk about the how technological advancements

throughout human history have been bathed in blood and the stuff that's coming is potentially more powerful and more devastating yeah which on the flip side has a lot of potential to really advance us as a human race but it can also really really create a nasty prison for us if we're not careful yeah that perfectly stages the the question and the conversation and is if we want peace, we have to go back to the basics. But this is predicated on everybody having been taught and educated on what natural law is and feeling this power. And recognizing that that power has been slowly taken away. For example, when you're in the jury and the judge is giving you direction, they give you direction that angles towards law and precedence.

when that may not be relevant for the context of the decision you're making. And yet you feel this pressure that you have to do things consistent with what was in the past. This goes back to your comment about putting on your own shield and your own armor and your own helmet and your own sword of truth and belief. Because if you don't think through those things, you acquiesce to somebody else in authority telling you. And that's where the power starts, eking away. So our judicial system is tainted, our constitution is tainted. A lot has been, and people will say, well, it's too complex. You know, how do we do this? Well, you just described why it can be so simple if we take the time as a human race to reflect on natural law and understand

what that means. And that's the work at hand, because without that, you can go headlong into this space revolution and run into violence. And because we had all not done this. So this is why you hear me say that, yeah, the technology is cool and interesting, but it's going to be a revolution can be a disaster. The revolution in China where millions of people were killed in the 60s because they didn't have the first principles and natural law thought through. And it was just, you know, a very small ideological party reigning violence on everybody and justifying it because their way is the right way.

Meaning if everybody does things that it seems right to them, it is the road to death. So we do have a rare opportunity here with the Internet and with the digital age coming to awaken the human race to this reality before we get too far down this space revolution so that we can have peace. Yeah, absolutely. And it's easy to think, you know, you mentioned that the digital age is coming to think that it's already here. I would suggest that what I think is most likely coming makes us look like we're in the Stone Age as far as propulsion technology and even communication technology and all that sort of stuff, which I'm not an expert on that by any stretch. But I just go back to the, it's an ongoing process this putting on the armor. Not like you put it on once and you're done because, you know, you go into a battle and you realize like, man, I got a weak spot over here. I need to maybe do some more training in that area of my life and understand things better in that area of my life.

And that starts with the solid foundation of being able to do that by instilling that into our children and not abdicating that over. You talked about also on the jury how the judge will, you know, pressure the jury. I mean, it's not a subtle pressure. They just flat out tell you that it's your responsibility. In fact, the oath that they have structured for jurors is you swear to abide by with the law states and how that is one of the most fundamentally anti-natural law things for them to do because at the end of the day, you are not going to stand before God in a committee. we will stand before God and you are therefore bound and this is what the Anglo-Saxons understood

which is why their culture really thrived for hundreds of years under this system. You are on that jury and you are judging by your conscience because you understand it's between you and God and you are therefore judging the situation, the facts of the situation, the evidence, the arguments, all that by your conscience, not by the dictates of someone else. Yeah. And that's part of that process of abdicating this, this responsibility, because it is a responsibility. And the results are, they speak for themselves. You know, look at just the bloat of the legal system.

I don't like calling it a judicial system because judicial is built in the concept of justice, which is an immutable concept, by the way, too, that we need to get back to understanding that, that there actually is such a thing as justice. Because if there isn't, then the conversation you and I are having, having right now is utterly meaningless because it really would just be dog eat dog and the strongest survive. And that's not a world that I want to live in. And that's not the world that God created for us. The good news is that's the not a world. The young generation wants to live in. I mean, the young generation is waking up. And I got connected with a network of youth because I was a university

president. And I was in charge of all recruiting into the Air Force and into the education of all the skill sets that make up the Air Force. And I was in charge of all the university. And I was in charge of all I will tell you, those at 30 age and under are pissed off as hell that we've gotten ourselves into this mess. And they, you know, it's beautiful to watch how every generation has an opportunity to be reborn. Yeah. And so you're exactly right. People need to understand that even the laws that have been set in place, you know, they say that if you have a nation with too many laws, you just have lazy lawyers. There should be very few laws.

But again, if you have an entire citizenry that has never thought about natural law and has never been reflective about this dynamic you're talking about, then if the lawyers basically say you're too stupid as a population to understand, therefore I'm going to write this law and you have to abide by it, even when the law is bad. Or when the law no longer becomes relevant, but because it's precedents, the lawyers say that you have to abide by it or the judges say that. So, you know, we are enslaved by our legal system. We are enslaved by our government that has taken authority and doing the same thing. We know better. You can't handle the truth. And they will be right if we do not invest in our children, this education of natural law. And then the courage and the guts that these are things worth dying for.

Because if you don't have the courage and guts to learn it and defend it with your life, somebody stronger will eventually steal it away, or in our case, they have subtly stolen it away over decades by hijacking education. This is why I'm so grateful for the president taking this first step of getting rid of the Department of Education at the federal level, pushing it back to the states, but we've still got the problem that there are states where the people will take that and say, okay, I know better than the people of my state. So then the next step will be give it back to the community, the neighborhoods, then the household. And in this digital age we're moving into, this networked age we're moving into, we have the tools to be able to do that,

where every parent can truly pay attention to the curriculum, the syllabus. We have AI tools that can align it with our values, the Bible and our constitution. We can start seeing clearly where we have to focus our attack against those that have enslaved us in all of these cases across our lives. Yeah. Well, and a measure of positivity in that is, as I mentioned earlier, as human beings, we don't adapt very quickly to changes. And, you know, again, drawing on my experience growing up in the 80s in Southern California, where it was literally illegal. Some of my earliest core, like, feeling memories were being aware of my parents being concerned that the state was going to come and take me and my older brother away, which probably speaks to why I've been open to conspiracy. I've seen theories all my life and recognizing the government is not my friend because some of my earliest memories are the government is not my friend is trying to take me away from my parents. But how it's shifted to where, you know, oh, you homeschool?

That's like, is that illegal? Or those times of questions. So now you get the, oh, yeah, my daughter homeschools her kids or, oh, yeah, my friend, my sister homeschools her kids. I wish I could homeschool. I wish I had the time. It's a complete shift in mentality. that's the stage we're at now. And then to your point regarding the curriculums and things like that,

as more and more people are getting into that space, there's more of an economy that develops where then curriculum, there's been an influx of curriculum providers in the homeschool space. My mom would make up her own curriculums when we were kids. And now, I mean, there's curriculum fairs that you can go to. But a lot of them are still pushing sort of the mainstream ideas. So I think that we're in the stage where eventually those ideas will shift and become more of the getting back to the basics as this younger generation starts having children and bringing that distrust of government and distrust of the current system into it. So I see that as being the foundation of a positive process going forward where the next several generations are going to be further and further removed from that totalitarian communist,

education system that we've lived under for the last 70 years. No, it's true. And another hopeful thing, just to reiterate the point where these technologies, they're part of the space revolution, can be that sword of truth in our hands as a human race. And I'll use one example that we have done in our space company. Artificial intelligence has a real problem in the fact that it digests everything, even the crap and things that are not true. And then it folds it in to its collective judgment or output.

And the muddier the waters get with people putting things in that are not true or people putting in things narratives that try to push their agenda, the worse and worse AI gets at giving you any kind of judgment. So right now you can't trust any AI to give you any judgment. Now you can have it get you documents that are out there. It can have you do a lot of things that are helpful. But one of the things we've done with some of our partner companies is it's all about how you train your pet AI. And instead of training AI in the space domain on language, large language models and things people are putting into it to say, okay, what is what is what is the answer to my question?

We train it on the physical world, meaning the physics. So a photon behaves in a certain way when it bounces off things. An electron acts in a certain way when it bounces off things. That is the physical universe, the observed physical universe that we see. We've trained the AI on that so that if it sees anything, let's say jamming, for example, somebody doesn't want that satellite to see you. So they put up a jammer so that the satellite sees jamming and thinks it's something other than it is. it can recognize that jamming in a heartbeat because it's trained on physics and that is not natural.

A jammer is not natural to the physical law of a radar beam hitting the earth and bouncing back or a photon coming from a source. And now you can simply see truth and you're not deceived by the bullshit. The same is true for our, let's say, our curriculum, our schools. There's no reason why we can't, and we have engineers that are doing this. right now. They aren't in the mainstream, but they are doing it. They are creating AI where you can constrain it to natural law. You can constrain it to biblical principles. You can constrain it to our constitution, at least those parts that have not been bastardized by people trying to move it away from the freedom and free will of the people and their liberty. And by doing so now, you can start

educating the human race to these natural laws that can align us for a more peaceful future. We have a fighting chance of throwing off the shackles of tyranny using a tool that they're currently using to deceive us and drive narratives. We can use it against them and for the cause of truth. You said earlier you referenced the maxim that you would be careful what you wish for. because, you know, to finish that, because you just might get it, which that's, I use that a lot in my own life. So, you know, the global regime, the deep state, the, the tyrannical ruler is calling what you will. You know, it also works for them. Be careful what they, they should be careful what they wish for because they just might get it.

And by achieving the level of totalitarian control that they have, they have, they're starting to wake the beast, so to speak. because people are getting really, really pissed off by, and I think COVID, it didn't wake up everybody, but it woke up enough people because it really does take a very vocal minority to dramatically change the course of history. And I think that's what we're living through right now. The concern is obviously that we would end up being just like the pioneers who escaped what had essentially become tyranny on the east coast in a bloated government. and going west, they brought some of the same bad ideas with them that led to those problems on the East Coast. So we have that same responsibility now in that we can become the thing that they wished for that they actually wished that they didn't get once they get it. And where this, I think, intersects on a personal level for each one of us, like so down to the granular individual level, There's a maxim that Lysander Spinner uses in his treason, his essay, No Treason, The Constitution of No Authority, that has been really impactful in my mind that all political power, as it is called, rests on the matter of money.

Historically, money is the central focal point that a tyrannical government latches onto to control the populace, the story of how the Roman Empire slowly degraded its currency over time. and how that robbed the people of their power is well documented and talked about. But he says there are six things that we can then know as just sort of fundamental truths if you understand that all political power rests on the matter of money. And those six things are that the money that is stolen from you, you know, taxation, it's going to be used against you. That number two, those who take the money from you will hurt. you if you decide to stop paying.

And number three, it's absurd to think that anyone's stealing money from you. This is kind of an inverse of number one. It's absurd to think that anyone's stealing money from you is doing so for your benefit. Number four, that it is a natural law principle that a man is capable of arranging his own protection. And then the means by which he does that is number five, personal sovereignty over your own money is the guarantee of liberty. And then the last one is any government that's not relying solely on voluntary support

should not be trusted. So that is a battery of six things we can understand regarding money, how it relates to government and how that relates to us and then how that relates to technologies because technology is extremely expensive. You know, research and development is extremely expensive. How do we on a personal level have any input on that? And the answer is you need to have sovereignty over your own money. And that is a fundamental axiom that needs to be understood.

And I know, G Money is an abrasive character in the Badlands community, and he's passionate, he cares a lot about it. And I've been buying Bitcoin, because this is where that leads in my mind as a technology, because money is just the way we transfer money is just technology as well. Reading through Spooner in the depth that I have over the last six months, I've been reading it for 20 years, but really, you know, you learn more about something when you teach it. Yeah. It radicalized me in that mindset and recognizing, okay, this is how I as an individual peon can actually have an impact over a long period of time by learning ways that I can be more sovereign in my money choices. What am I giving my consent to? Consent is the power to say no, but there is also an affirmative side of things. So what am I trusting in?

What am I giving my authority over to? And so you couple that with money, that protects your ability to say no. So when it comes to technologies like, hey, we're implementing this. That stuff costs money. And so if we have control over our money, they have less power to do those things. And that's not an immediate solution for right here and now. This is a long, drawn out solution that won't ever happen if no one takes use of it. I'd strongly encourage people to, if you haven't done so already,

start looking into that. I'm on telegram. You know, reach out to me. I've got a chat for my podcast. It's t.me slash the no treason podcast. And I love dialoguing with people about this stuff because I'm passionate about it. No, I agree with you. And, you know, one of the things that G Money runs into is the fact that culture moves slowly.

And but he's on the right target. You know, he's got the right idea. and this is one thing we have to fix. And so I do the same thing. You know, I, you know, have a very disciplined investment so that I am taking as much power as possible in a way that if we all do it collectively, we can guide policy, we can guide technology, we can guide peace. And it does come down to the money or resources. And but it also comes down to trust, you know, do you trust this company to actually build what they're saying they're going to build? And that's where a trustless system where you can have the proof, you know, the show me state, if you will, where, okay, you're going to build me a tool to triangulate truth or to discover a lie if somebody is telling a lie.

Let's take it on a test run. You know, let's prove it out. And you get the money if you can prove it. But you still have to trust people. And that's where the human interaction, time spent with one another, because God made us so intuitive. Our spidey senses are so good. So in addition to this journey of educating ourselves on first principles as a way to have a peaceful space revolution, we also need to spend more time with one another face to face. Because if I meet somebody and they are a really good liar, I can fall into the trap of believing them as we go along.

But over time, if we all have this natural, you know, habit of testing one another and paying attention to red flags when you see them, you eventually, your spidey senses eventually say, hey, you know, nobody's perfect, but you have intentionally lied to me and I can't trust you. And when somebody proves to you, they can't be trusted, believe them. Yeah. And start surrounding yourself with people that you can trust. And then, you know, this eventually starts driving the incentive system where we are, you know, tribal in nature, where people and children are incentivized to be honest. You know, it doesn't mean that you tell somebody they look fat in those pants, you know, there's some depression you can use here. But, you know, this core authenticity and transparency and honesty that is at the root of natural law. Yeah.

has to be something we really, really patron, and the beautiful thing is if you really get the humility part right, you know, you have to, you know, then you're honest with yourself and then you can be honest with others. And you, you, you have to let go of ego, pride and arrogance and vanity. You have to stop wanting to be admired more than you want to be loved. Yeah. Because people can love a flawed person. But, you know, and so so many politicians. a good thing, by the way, because I'm a flawed person. I said, that's a good thing because I'm a flawed person and my wife still loves me. So that's a good thing. Yeah. So, you know, and the, the nature of politics oftentimes attracts people that would rather be admired than loved. And then it's easy for them to lie or deceive or make you think there's somebody that they're not. So, you know, these are the principles as we kind of start wrapping this up because, again, this is such a universal and deep conversation. We could talk literally for 10 years and just scratch the surface. But In this short program, I just want to kind of hit on the three points that this is a peaceful

future is more about what we do internally as individuals to create a habit of humility, honesty, and then obedience to that humility and honesty based on natural law and then teach our children that. If we do these things, we have a fighting chance and the young generation is hungry for They can feel the truth and authenticity, and they are pissed off as hell, like you said, about the dishonesty that they see in the media, in the internet, and they're hunting for truth. And truth is, you know, a lie is going to be more and more discoverable. So I'm very optimistic that between the young generation and these tools of the networked age, we will be able to shine a light on all people doing evil things from child trafficking, sex trafficking, money, to the theft of our freedom through politics, policy, and economics.

Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of power there. And it's encouraging to me to see the younger generation, even just being pissed off. If they don't have the answers right away, that hunger has been created in them. And to invoke C.S. Lewis, as I did at Gart recently, he talks about the fact that we are beings that seek to worship. and that's a collective across time and cultures, that is an aspect of human nature that speaks to, his argument is,

if we are seeking something to worship, that's because there is something to worship. And that's a line that Spooner uses in that essay that I submitted to you for the audience to read, the science of justice, that justice is an immutable concept because we, and one of the ways that we can know it's,

it's there is because we all want justice. We all understand that it is a thing called justice. And it's not some nebulous concept. It is a real programmed in nature by God concept that we have a craving for. And like any craving, I think time and circumstances can kind of soften that or mute that in a culture. And I think we're at a time because, as I said, the deep state, be careful what they wish for because they just might get it. They overplayed their hand. And so we're in that pendulum swing back, the blowback era.

And we have to be really careful, though, because if we don't go back to natural law, go back to the founding values of this country, do that mental, moral, and spiritual work to understand what these things are and be honest with ourselves. That's one of the things Spooner talks about that in essay as well. He distills it down to be honest. honest with everyone, pay them what you owe them, and don't hurt anyone without cause, which then I distilled for that down to Jesus saying, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, love your neighbor as yourself kind of thing.

It's not a utopian concept. It's not a wishful thinking concept. It fully takes into consideration the fallen nature of man, you know, post Adam in the garden where we have a lot of problems. But it's recognizing that even in that, if we make positive choices to that, to that end and live according to those principles. The inverse of that is we will never have peace if we set up systems and behave in a manner that leads to war because those are the two outcomes, peace or war.

And it might not be a violent war because I would argue that we are at war with our government now and it's a relatively peaceful war as far as there's not a lot of violence, but you try to break out and you find out how warful or warlike they're really, are. No, it's so true. We're just kidding ourselves if we think that we can reinvent the wheel, so to speak. And so we need to go back to the basics for sure. It's a very powerful message, and I'm glad that you are expressing it. And I encourage all of us to continue to express it, because like we said, it takes time for cultural change. Most politicians, you know, will be astounded that they will say the same message a hundred times. And then the 101st time, somebody will say,

Oh, man, that's a cool thing. And, you know, the reality they heard a hundred times already. So it just, it takes this happy persistence by those of us that can see what's really going on around us and are, you know, scared as hell that it could close in on us and mad as hell, but optimistic that we can fight our way out of this. It's really important for us to stay calm and happily persistent. Yeah. So that we truly do this. You know, one of the fun things I just want to throw out there and don't need to answer this, but is natural law universal?

So, you know, the moment we meet somebody that's not from planet Earth, you know, are they going to, are they going to be consistent with these same natural laws that we intuit and experience and believe on planet Earth? And, you know, my answer to that is God made the universe. So, and these natural laws come from God. I believe that to my soul. And so I think we're in good hands if we want peace, both. here on earth and anywhere else or anything we bump into, whether it's conscious or not conscious, we abide by these rules and we're going to be okay, not perfect because fallen human nature will always be imperfect, but at least we have a fighting chance. Yeah, for sure, absolutely.

Well, Jonathan, I'm so grateful for you and for your, the fact that God puts you on this earth to do a very important mission and that you're doing it. I'm grateful to be with you on this show to express it in even the small ways that we did today, I encourage our listeners to get really aggressive about learning. You know, this habit of aggressive learning is really key. Because I want you to devour everything you can read on this. I want you to talk to your family, your kids, your neighbors, everybody. You know, this is how we change the world, one person at a time, and it starts with you.

So enjoy the journey because it can be a joy if you. you have the right mindset. And, you know, one thing I'll say about the Bible and this principle of love your neighbor as yourself, you know, the way Jesus says it, when you look at it closely, love your neighbor as I have loved you. Because somebody can be imperfect and not love themselves. You know, they can have self-hatred because of sin. But when you distill it down to this principle, love others as God loves you.

And God loves you no matter who you are, no matter how much sin is in your life, no matter how imperfect you are, it's a beautiful thing. and this is where you can actually get to a place where you can love your enemy. Yeah, for God so loved the world. He gave His Only Begaten Son. That is the most fundamental truth that we can cling to. Yeah. And so thank you, Jonathan.

Any last words before we break? Nope, I appreciate it. I feel like we could go for another several hours easily. We haven't even gotten into, you know, there's fun questions regarding the actual technology, but, you know, certainly my passion and drive right now, is a deeper first principles approach to the way we approach those things. And, you know, I have just started a series on my own show on ether physics. And there's different ways to view the nature of reality that I think will become relevant in the coming days.

And so, you know, that's a fun avenue of exploration, but certainly beyond the scope of just a one-hour conversation. Yeah, so let's have that conversation because the intent of this is to be short so that people, you know, can hear the tip of the iceberg. Then they dive in and they dig and they search and they hunt and they do their, you know, their diligence. And then we come back to the conversation again. So if you're willing, let's come back together and let's frame, you know, version two of this question or we can go out, we can start do some of the technology stuff because that's kind of fun and sexy. But all of the technology stuff that's fun and sexy is meaningless. don't get the first part right that we're talking about now. So let's sprinkle these in one to another and be thinking about the next conversation you want to have.

And then knock on my door and we'll do it here in addition to the shows you're doing. That sounds wonderful. I appreciate it. Thank you. Have a great day. All right. God bless you. Bye.

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