Badlands Media - Why We Vote Ep. 186: Tim Canova on Taking Down Wasserman Schultz & the DNC

Episode Date: September 2, 2026

CannCon and Ashe in America finally land a guest CannCon has chased for years, and it's personal, since Tim Canova is a law professor at CannCon's alma mater and once ran for Congress in his district. A lifelong Kennedy Democrat turned establishment thorn, Tim recounts his against-all-odds 2016 primary run at DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz, built on 12,000 door knocks a week, a surprise Bernie Sanders endorsement, and a national map lighting up with small-dollar donations. Then comes the gut punch: local media posting results with 70 percent of precincts reporting before a single ballot was counted, polls that vanished, and a ballot-destruction saga that followed. Along the way the crew connects it to Kari Lake, Pennsylvania, WikiLeaks, and the machinery that protects incumbents. A rare insider's view of how a party crushes its own insurgents. Plus AI data centers, loaded gun coffee, and the Creature from Jekyll Island.

The badlands, one of the badlands, explain those badlands. That's a hell of a name. All right. Good evening. Ladies and gentlemen and welcome to why we vote. It's Tuesday night, which is when elections are. So I'm joined. Now you're actually muted.

And this is not me because I can see the little. I know. That was my fault. I did that. So all shows are why we vote now, but this show is actually why we vote. So hit the like button and share the show. helps us out. What states are having primaries today? I don't care because they're all fake, so it doesn't matter. Same. It's really hard to care about the outcome of fake elections.

Yeah. Did you see the segment I did today on all the election money pouring in? The Daily Caller did an article about the top 20 donors so far in the election, and it's all AI companies. It's almost all. Besides George Soros and Alice, Alex Soros, it's all, it's Mark Andresen, it's Elon Musk, it's, you know, Chris Launders. It's all AI money and all that's going to magnet. Yeah, well, you know, the the data centers are kind of critical to the future of AI and the future, the golden age that we're trying to build. There's a lot of opposition to the data centers. And there's real concerns around why, how, where, um, certainly.

Certainly in people's communities, there's a big battle over data center. I actually think it was solar farm. Similar kind of thing, though, right? Like rural community doesn't want this in their community. It's going to disrupt their way of life. It's going to change their way of life. They don't want it. Those are real concerns that I think need to be heard.

I also think that building the infrastructure for the golden age is critically important. I heard Chris Paul said, I think it might have been in his substack chat or it might have been in our back channel chat, but this whole season of opposition to AI data centers is likely to generate a consensus that we need to put them in space. So, you know, that's happening. We know that's happening. General Claus talks about that. I talked about when he was on my show, we talked about AI data centers. But AI is, you know, an AI, you can't think about as chaty-p-tete, you know, that's a, that's a toy that you're playing with compared to the promise of AI. And just reminder, the global have been talking about AI in this way since at least 2014.

And watching Bill Gates freak out about it last week gives me a lot of promise that we're headed in the right direction. You know what's crazy about that, Brian, is that you and I covered MogaDOT's scary smart, right? And that was around the same time we were covering. That was when we were covering also the AI dilemma that came out. And those guys were all calling for a pause, right? And the opposition to that was led by Bill Gates.

He was opposed to the pause because he said, my competitors aren't going to pause, you know, so why am I going to pause? And now he seems to be on the opposite side of that calculus. Yep. All right, let's get into it because I don't want to keep our guests waiting for too long. We do have to hit our sponsors. And also, I don't remember if we covered this last week, but W. Willman gave a $100 rant on August 18th, Badlands Boost, I should say, saying, thank you both, love why we vote, gives me hope that we can still prevail. I don't know if we read that or not. I don't recall. I don't remember that one. So I don't think we did. and thank you so much, W. Wilman.

We appreciate you. $400. We'll read it twice. Yeah. You felt us this week. We appreciate you so much. Thank you. Also, Badlanders, stay loaded with loaded gun coffee.

I'm trying to get my screens pulled up here. You guys are all familiar with loaded gun coffee. They've been longtime supporters here at Badlands. I drink them every single morning. In fact, I'm on my little hiatus where I don't have it for about three days. And so I'm going through loaded gun withdrawals. right now. They've been long supporters here at Badlands, and you may have seen them in person our guard events, but did you know that they're a veteran-ran family-owned shop in Lake Havasu,

Arizona? Every bag of their whole bean coffee delivers a high-octane, patriotic punch of flavor, with a long family history of commitment to freedom. Every bag is a testament of pride and honor from the skilled farmers who cultivate each blend to their roasters that handpick the finest coffee beans from around the world. Loaded gun coffee has mastered their unique brewing methods resulting in the best tasting coffee around. The coffee is smooth and delicious and the perfect way to start every morning, just like I do.

Get over to badlandsmedia.tv slash loaded and use promo code Badlands to get 10% off your order. And if you're in the Lake Havasu area, stop in their newly renovated store until Amash and Cancans sent you. That is again, badlandsmedia. Dot TV slash loaded promo code Badlands and stay loaded badlanders with loaded gun coffee.

You can also check them out on episode 12 of America First. stories. Yeah, they're awesome. We met them at Vegas Gart last year, I think. And we have Vegas Gart coming up again this year. Half and I had them on sit rep a couple years ago. Got to get them back on again. So and then let's also talk about our friends over at Unis. Do you have belly fat, high blood pressure, cholesterol, or any others on this list? If you're like most patriots, you don't just have one. It's not you. It's your environment. Big pharma and big food have kept us in fat storage and damage mode. That's where I feel great comes in. Yellow in the morning

to extend your fast and burn fat. Orange before lunch and dinner, putting your body into fat burning and relief. Don't wait. Save $70 and take control of your health today at badlandshealth.com. See results in 90 days or your money back guaranteed. All right. Badlandshealth.com. Yeah, my 18-year-old loves that stuff. He's really into Yerba Mata. I think that's how you say that. And Badlands Health, the Unisity products, that's a big part of their program is Yerba Mote. And he's obsessed with it.

So you like so. All right. So guys, tonight we have a very special guest joining us. I have low key. I've been passively trying to get this gentleman on the show for a couple of years now because this is a local issue for me. This is a local issue. ran for Congress in my district back in 2016. And I think again in 2018, he is a Democrat or was, I don't want to put any words in

his mouth, was a Democrat. I think part of his story is leaving the Democrat party, but he was not just a Democrat. We have a tattooed teacher in the chat. He's a Long Island Democrat. And I'm excited about this because my father-in-law, rest his soul, was Long Island Democrat. And Union guy, most fun party I've ever been to. in my life to this day, Long Island Railroad Retirement Party. Better than Garts? Get out of here.

Yeah, no, the Long Island Union Railroad Union retirement party was, it was a much higher budget than Garts. We'll just say that. Not more fun, though. All right. So also, before we introduce our guess, I just got to say he is a professor of law at my alma mater. And so just a lot of connections here. Guys, welcome to the stage professor Tim Kanova.

Thank you. How you doing, sir? I'm doing great. It's great to be with you. I have been, I've actually been trying to get a hold of you to get you on a show, mainly through X. And a couple, maybe a week ago, yeah, I think it was a couple weeks ago. Zach Payne, one of my co-hosts and one of our Badlands hosts here,

I mentioned the story of what you went through back in 2016 and 2018 against Debbie Washington Schultz. And he's like, oh, I know, Tim. I've talked to, I'll get you guys. in touch and sure enough. Zach had me on. Red pill, I think. Red pill 78. Yeah. So welcome to the show. If you, if you don't mind, is it okay if I call you Tim? Absolutely, please. Okay. You know, professor, you know, and all that. No, no, no, please, Tim. Okay. Tell, yeah, tell us about yourself and a little bit about your background. So as Ash mentioned, I grew up on Long Island and was a lifelong Kennedy Democrat.

In fact, I went to John F. Kennedy High School in Belmore, New York. And what can I tell you? I ended up going into law as a career, practiced law in New York City for a few years before I went into teaching. And for the past, what, 14 years now, I've been a tenured law professor at Nova Southeastern University, where presently I'm teaching First Amendment law, corporations, and seminar in central banking. most of what I published to get tenure dealt with critique of the Federal Reserve and private central banks. And, you know, let me interrupt you there for a second

because Ash and I also co-host another show together called The Badlands Book Club, and right now we are doing the creature from Jekyll Island. Oh, fantastic. I've got it on my shelf. We call it the bad mood hour because it's maddening. We just got through the Lusitania chapter. Oh, interesting. Yeah.

Yeah, and completely, like I didn't like Woodrow Wilson before. Yeah, like, it's amazing how in my generation, we were brought up to think highly of Woodrow Wilson. But, you know, as you start really digging into American history, you start seeing that a lot of the iconic heroes were far from heroes. Quite often they were the villains. Oh, we got to get you on another episode. maybe do like a break from reading the creature from Jack Lylein and get you on me to talk about it.

Sure. Yeah, I write a lot about the Federal Reserve. And, you know, its most recent news, of course, is President Trump attempting to fire Lisa Cook and the Supreme Court pushing back against that in a really strange opinion by Justice Roberts, where it had a lot of dicta, a lot of unnecessary verbiage that seems to carve. out a Federal Reserve exception to the Constitution. So, okay, so we won't, maybe towards the end of the show, we can get into the, you know, the Federal Reserve a little bit when we run out of election stuff. But this is why we vote and elections are the foundation of our constitutional republic. So tell us your story on elections and how you got into this.

Sure. I had never run for public office before. And in the summer of 2015, I got involved. with a group called the Citizens Trade Campaign, which was a coalition of labor and environmentalists pushing back against Obama's globalization trade deal called the Trans-Pacific Partnership. And that TPP, as it was called, became a big campaign issue in 2016. On the Democrat side, Bernie Sanders was really bashing Hillary Clinton, who was involved in drafting the agreement. But of course, she flip-flopped on it when Bernie Sanders started gaining on her.

On the Republican side, what do we have? 17 candidates or something like that. The only one who was against the TPP was Donald Trump. So we were lobbying our congressional delegation to vote against fast-tracking the TPP. And our local congresswoman would not even meet with us. And at the same time, she was taking over $300,000 from industry trade groups that wanted this trade deal. And she became the only Democrat in Florida's House delegation to vote to fast-track the agreement. So we were pretty aggravated that she wouldn't even meet with us and she voted the way she did. And we started looking for someone who would challenge her in a primary. It was at that time a very safe Democratic district.

And we thought if we can give her a scare in the primary, Murray got to send a message. And we had trouble finding anybody because that Congresswoman was Debbie Wasserman Schultz and she was the chair of the Democratic National Committee at the time. And we held a couple of public forums against the TPP and I spoke out against it. And after really each of those public forums and a number of my union friends who were really part of this coalition, they were a big part of it, they came up to me and they started trying to put the bug in my ear that I should challenge her. And I kind of laughed it off. I'm not a wealthy person. I got a modest income as a professor,

and I thought you need a lot of money to run a campaign. And near the end of 2015, you might recall when Bernie, the Sanders campaign got locked out of, by the DNC, got locked out of the van voter database. And I think it was a big setup from the beginning, where the DNC brought down the firewall between the Clinton and Sanders campaign, the firewall on the van database. So some Bernie Sanders campaign staffers were trying to research their own database, and they stumbled into the Clinton database because the firewall had come down. It was immediately declared by the DNC that the Sanders campaign was spying on the Clinton campaign. they suspended the Sanders campaign from using the Van Database just weeks before the Iowa caucus.

And to me, it seems so transparent, you know, that the DNC was just mischaracterizing this and trying to harm the Sanders campaign. Well, Sanders sued, and the day he sued, he raised a million dollars online. And at that point, I realized, you know, if I was in the race right now, I bet you I would have raised a quarter million dollars against Wasserman Schultz today.

And two weeks later, I jumped in, filed my papers, declared myself a candidate. And sure enough, the campaign started going viral in early 2016. And, you know, we raised $100,000 pretty quickly. And I'm saying, without me picking up the phone, without me taking a penny of PAC money or corporate money, this was all organic online small donations. It was, you could say, the Bernie Sanders campaign, the grassroots of the Democrat Party was absolutely pissed off at Wasserman Schultz and Hillary Clinton, and I was going to give her a run for the money. The campaign gained a lot of steam throughout the spring.

We raised a million dollars, and then another million. And each time we were making these milestones in fundraising, you know, a lot of the, political consultants would be calling and trying to get me to spend a ton of money on ad campaigns with them and instead i i wanted a real grassroots field campaign and we opened up um we had a headquarters right off the bat and a field office in hollywood where where i lived at the time in hollywood florida then we opened up um field offices in pembroke pines and in um plantation And then I remember we had a really difficult call with some of these consultants who were really part of the Bernie Sanders orbit. And they were trying to scare me into dropping a million dollars on a TV ad campaign and trying to scare us with polls that were really a bunch of BS at the time.

And it was still early. It was still not quite summer, I think. And I got off that phone. And, you know, my top campaign staff were, we're, we're. rattled and Obama had just endorsed Waserman Schultz. And I said, let's open a fourth field office and we opened it in Weston, which is where Wasserman Schultz lives. And by the summer, our own poll had showed us closing within single digits. And the race, the primary election was not going to be until August 30th. So we had time and we were gaining ground. And then Bernie Sanders endorsed me out of the

Blue, did not see it coming, did not ask for his endorsement. The day he endorsed me, we didn't even send out a fundraising email that day from what I recall, and we raised a quarter million dollars. And, you know, at the time, I know Act Blue has a very bad reputation now, deservedly so. Act Blue was not laundering money to help my campaign, I'll tell you that. But that was the platform I was using. And at the end of the day, after campaigning, I'd come in, I'd turn on my computer, and there'd be a map of the United States. And wherever a donation came from, there'd be a small little circle. And the bigger the donation, the bigger the circle. And I remember coming home that night after Sanders had called me up and after CNN had called me up and we'd gotten this endorsement.

And I turned on the map of the United States and the entire United States was lit up with circles. It's like the whole country was donating small donations to me, you know, and we raised a quarter million dollars in that one day. Then came WikiLeaks that summer, and Wasserman Schultz was quite embarrassed. And this whole time, grassroots folks were coming up to Wasserman Schultz and asking if she wouldn't debate me. And every single time she would look down, turn away, and walk away, she wouldn't even give a verbal answer. And we, and these folks were taking, you know, everyone has a video camera now. Everyone's got a cell phone camera. We compiled like the best of half dozen of these instances of Wasserman Schultz running away from debate.

And we put out a commercial on that. So the whole thing was going viral. WikiLeaks exploded in her lap. She had to resign in disgrace as the DNC chair. And by the end of the race, Sanders was at. out, you know, he said he was going to come campaign for me. He never did. You know, he, he, he kind of capitulated to the DNC. And, and in that summer, really, our campaign in South Florida was really the tip of the sword against the Democrat establishment. And it was too

important for them to allow us to win. By the end of the race, we were knocking on 12,000 doors a week. When I say we are four field offices and almost 200 field organizers and campaign volunteers. And, you know, you talk about, you know, what was the, what Thomas Payne talked about, the summer Patriot versus the Winter Patriot, right? And Valley Forge was the Winter Patriot. Well, in a South Florida, August, the summer Patriot is a real patriot. Those are the ones out there knocking on the door, working hard for their country. And our internal numbers, based on 12,000 doorknots a week, where our workers, our campaign workers who are knocking on those doors are inputting the results of their conversations in a database, the minivan, I think it was called.

And they would go back two, three, four times, and they could see the progress how people who had been undecided were now leaning towards me or heavily to me. Our final field numbers showed us running away with the race. and it was reflected in the 10 days of early voting wherever we went and an election day itself. The day before the election on August 29th, the local NBC6 put up on their website a preview of the next day's elections in South Florida. And they were all zeroed out because no ballots had been counted. But strangely enough, in my race, they had Wasserman Schultz beating me with something like, 70% of the precincts reporting, even though none had reported yet. And they had her beating me

about 15 or 16 percentage points, which we thought was about the margin we were going to beat her. We were thinking it wasn't even going to be that close by the end. And, you know, again, the DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schultz could point to, you know, media polls based on 600 calls to likely voters. We were basing ours on 12,000 door knocks all over the district. district each week, each week, 12,000. The next day, the polls closed within an hour. Tim, did you ever get an explanation for that? Because I've written several articles for the Gateway Pundit about similar circumstances

where news media's mainstream outlets are putting out election results, you know, a week before, a day before an election. It happened to Carrie Lake in Arizona. I saw it happened to President Trump in 2024 in Pennsylvania. Yep. And, you know, we never got an explanation. We took screenshots. They took it down.

They never gave an explanation. And we thought it was either negligence on their part if this was a rig, okay? If this was an engineered result through the electronic software of the electronic voting machines, it was either just a negligent mistake or, you know, and I've come to wonder when it happened to Carrie Lake and when it happened to President Trump, is there a ghost in the machine? Are there good guys on the inside that want us to know that this really stinks, that there's a rig coming? I'll never know, perhaps. We'll never know. But because of that, I immediately had suspicions that the results were phony. I was getting calls the next day, and I refused to concede. I didn't concede election night, which I heard really bothered Wasserman Schultz tremendously.

and the next day I started getting calls right away from, you know, the data crunchers around the country, people I didn't even know, people who had been analyzing the Sanders-Clinton primaries doing what they call cumulative voter tallies, which if I could describe it in short, it's like when you count up the votes precinct by precinct, at the beginning of the count, there could be a wide divergence between two candidates. but the more votes you count, the more the lines will go parallel. It's the same principle of polling. It's sort of the law of large numbers.

And what they found in my race was that the first few precincts they count Wasserman Schultz is ahead. But no, I'm sorry, I was ahead. And right when you think it might start horizontallying out, there is a flip. and suddenly they're not horizontal lines, they are diverging sort of at a mathematically precise angle. And what I'm told is this is consistent with engineering the source code to count each Wasserman Schulz vote by more than one and each Konova vote by less than one.

So of course, I would have liked to have inspected the source code, but you're not allowed to. It's the private proprietary trade secrets of this cartel of electronic voting machine companies. We looked into election systems and software at the time. I was very curious who sits on their board of directors. Well, it turns out ESNS was owned by a private equity fund in Omaha, Nebraska. So, you know, there's no transparency at all. It's like a black box.

And since I couldn't inspect the software, I wanted to, I put in a public record. records request to inspect the paper ballots. And, you know, I was under a lot of pressure both to concede, but also I felt an obligation to the 209,000 Americans who donated $17 each to my campaign. So before you talk about what happened when you tried to get the ballots, what was the pressure like to concede? You mentioned in your set, I read a substack and you said they offered to make you the Stacey Abrams of Florida. Did you talk a little bit about that? Yeah, sure.

I got a call from Stephen Battell. I should say Stephen Battell called one of my top aides, the woman who was taking care of a lot of Hispanic outreach. Battelle is a billionaire developer in South Florida and a close friend of Wasserman Schultz's and a financial backer of hers. And suddenly Battelle wants to meet with me. So I agreed to the meeting.

and the meeting occurred while my lawsuit was going forward, while I was not conceding and while I was trying to make a big stink out of what it just happened. I wanted to expose what had happened. I wanted to learn what had really happened. Go to Battelle's office and he basically tries to convince me to concede and to endorse Wasserman Schultz and Hillary Clinton. And I'm a smart guy, he says. you know, says, Tim, you're a lawyer, you're a law professor, you could be the next attorney general

of Florida. You know, this is the kind of things he's dangling in front of me, sort of a carrot, if I would just go along. And, you know, I think a lot of people would have gone along, but, you know, I thought, I've got tenure, you know, I've got a career. I don't need this. And I could not really fathom the idea of endorsing somebody who I thought just stole an election from me. you know, that just didn't sit right with me. And so we filed the lawsuit and the Broward supervisor of elections at the time was a woman named Brenda Snipes and she refused to turn over the paper ballots. There was always some excuse. She said they had not taken scanned images of the ballots, which she would later flip-flop on. We didn't understand how did you not

take scanned images. It's really a toggle switch to have scanned images of every ballot. But they had this drag on for many months. I tried to get the House of Representatives to investigate since they are the judge of their own elections. I spoke to Jamie Raskin, an old friend of mine from the legal academy, you could say, and he was newly elected. And to say the least, Raskin really showed his true colors over the last few years. but I'm digressing. Anyway, the lawsuit went forward. It took a lot of months.

We finally got the judge to order a pretrial discovery, and we got Brenda Snipes and her chief lieutenant, a guy named Dozel Spencer, in front of us for sworn videotaped depositions. And under oath, she admitted to destroying every paper ballot cast in our race. And those are felonies under state and federal law. Got to hold them for 22 months. Oops, we made a mistake is what she said. How many months after the election did she destroy them? It was less than a year. Yeah. You know, and I think they destroyed the ballots when the

discovery, the lawsuit and the discovery was really getting on them. And if they had put up those ballots, of course, our theory was that it would have showed a much different result than what the electronic official results were. And her lieutenant who destroyed the ballot, the fellow who was in charge of ballot security, he had an interesting background. He had worked for her for a number of years. He had worked for Brenda Snipes. But prior to that, he had been an exterminator. And we would joke that his job had become to exterminate the ballots. Literally, you know, he destroyed the ballots. He followed her order to do so. So with that kind of evidence, videotaped confession under oath plus documentary evidence, the order she signed to destroy the ballots, the judge

essentially granted a summary judgment and ruled in our favor in a 10-page decision. This was Judge Rag Singh Hall. He had been a state court judge. About a year later, he would be appointed to the federal bench by President Trump in President Trump's first term. I thought he was a pretty fair judge. It was frustrating how long the legal process took for this to play out. And when we finally got the judgment. We didn't really have any remedies. The ballots were gone. This judge a year later was not about to overturn the election. Congress was not about to overturn the election. All we really had was pressure on the Broward supervisor to settle the case for money. And essentially, my lawyers got paid. That was it. I didn't get paid anything. In fact, I ended up burning through a lot of

my life savings at the time, which was foolish in the way that I had proceeded. Like I said, I raised $3.8 million. But I was all in. I had lent my money campaign that I didn't even have, I didn't have the foresight to pay it back. I wasn't really thinking ahead in those terms. But anyway, the lawyers got paid and we had an order of a state court, a circuit court judge that the Broward Supervisor of Elections had committed these crimes. Based on that, we were hoping that the Florida Department of Law Enforcement in the Governor Rick Scott administration would investigate and prosecute. And that did not happen. And we also met with the acting U.S. attorney for South Florida, Benjamin Greenberg, who seemed interested in prosecuting for a while.

I remember had about a 90-minute meeting with him and my lawyer. And, you know, I made the point that a second-year law student at my law school could effectively prosecute this case. You know, what more evidence do you need when you have the elections supervisor admitting under oath to the crime? I mean, I suppose if we had a videotape of her with a blowtorch destroying the ballots, that would have helped. But Greenberg went up to the swamp. up to D.C. for a week of meetings at the Justice Department and came back, and suddenly it was too complicated a case for him to prosecute. And I ended up being told sometime later by Peter Antonacci, who had been appointed by DeSantis to replace Snipes, that it was Rod Rosenstein,

the Deputy Attorney General in Washington, D.C., who put the cabashe on prosecuting. anyone in my race. In 2017. Excuse me? In 2017? Yes. Maybe by that time it might have been 2018. The height of prosecution against President Trump and Russia.

Exactly. And Rod Rosenstein was the one who appointed Mueller to investigate on the Russia collusion nonsense. In 2018, I ran as an independent. By then, Google and the other social media companies were, shadow banning me and my fundraising emails were basically trashed they'd go directly into people's you know junk folders so we were not raising the same kind of money we raised several hundred thousand dollars which was still a decent amount we had a campaign presence we had one

poll that showed Wasserman Schultz in the low 30s and me in the low 30s as an independent and the Republican candidate down in under 20 percent and So we were hopeful that maybe we could win a three-way race, but the fact that they got away with destroying the balance with impunity, I kind of thought, well, they're not going to stop. They're not, you know, it's not going to be a fair election. Anyway, that election was another lesson, you could say, because the results had me capped at a low percentage, like at 5%. And it didn't just have me, when I say capped, I didn't just have me, when I say capped, I didn't

just get 5% among Democrats or among certain demographic groups. I got 5% among every demographic group, Democrat, Republican, Independent, whites, blacks, Hispanics, males, females, every precinct. That race was studied by, I'm trying to remember his name now. He was the head of the New Jersey Institute of Technology. He had been the head of the Georgia Institute of Technology, very credentialed expert in mathematical science. And he said, the election results in my race. No, I know who you're talking about. He was, is he with the verified voting? Was he with? I think so. I think so. Yeah, I know who you're talking about. I'll look up his name. I'm just spacing out on his name. You know, it's been so many years that I, you know, some of those names don't come

as easily as readily to mind. But he concluded that the chances of me having those election results would be in order. It would be like winning the lottery every day for a year. Okay. Anyway, nothing happened. What's that? It seems legit. Well, he was the expert, not me.

Yeah, yeah. It was a fishy result. But what was really interesting was in 2018, November 2018, you may recall that the race for governor of Florida and the race for U.S. Senator from Florida both crash landed in Broward County. They were almost too close to call. And for days after the election,

Brenda Snipes, the Broward supervisor, who had destroyed all my ballots, was suddenly discovering thousands of ballots days later, including in a car parked at the airport in Fort Lauderdale. And this was DeSantis against Andrew Gillum, for governor and Rick Scott, the outgoing governor against Bill Nelson for Senate. And DeSantis and Scott were holding onto very thin margins as they were going to go to a machine recount while Brenda Snipes kept finding more and more ballots. And I think Fox News had me on three mornings in a row.

And I basically said, how could you trust an election official who could destroy every ballot cast? How could you trust that these are legitimate ballots? And at that, and at that, point, Jed Bush, who had first appointed Snipes to fill an opening as the election supervisor, came out and called for her to resign. And anyway, on his way out of office as governor, Rick Scott, I think it was his last executive order, he removed Brenda Snipes as the supervisor of elections. And in his executive order, he listed a bunch of her negligence, you could say, and the top crime that was mentioned was a destruction of the ballots in my race. So she was out. We were still hoping that there could be criminal investigation. And, you know,

I was hoping if she were arrested and Dozel Spencer, that one of them or both of them might start singing like a canary and start telling us who put them up to this, who was behind this. Let's expose the entire machine, the cesspool. But, That's not how it works. That's not how it works, Tim. I know. And DeSantis came in, and let me tell you something, I had voted for DeSantis. Okay?

And I had met with Andrew Gillum early in my campaign. I liked him. He seemed like a nice guy. And I was still a Democrat at the time. And I thought he was an outsider. But by the time the election came, I was so disgusted in the Democrats. I had left the party. I'd become an independent at that point.

And I quietly voted for DeSantis. and I should also admit I voted for Donald Trump in 2016. Okay? I wasn't about to vote for Hillary Clinton. And, you know, there were some third party candidates, but the way I looked at it, it was giving the big middle finger and electing a disruptor, an outsider. And I was impressed that Trump stood his ground on the Trans-Pacific Partnership

and on some other issues. But back to DeSantis, he gets in his governor and his first official act is to reinstate Brenda Snipes as a supervisor, of elections. And I think a day later, she resigned rather than having been removed. So she was able to resign on $135,000 a year pension. That's incredible. How was that allowed? I think we've always wondered how that was allowed because it was a bit of a scandal when it happened and it's still a scandal today. And she'll never be held accountable because she passed away. She passed away about a year ago, I think, or something. Yeah. Yeah. It's a travesty.

To Santis, he bragged about creating an election integrity office in Florida. He put Peter Antonacci in charge of that election integrity office. I was contacting that office. Also dead. That's right. And actually, my last conversation with him was not a pleasant one. He died only like a week later or something. Suddenly, he died.

He was going to the water fountain and he croaked him a heart attack. Heart attack, yeah. I don't know if it was one of those vaccine injuries, sudden deaths, I can't recall. But, you know, I had a very acrimonious conversation with him at the end. And I had spoken to him a number of times. And we did not have what I would consider to be a terribly acrimonious relationship. But at the end, there he is heading the election integrity office, refusing to bring charges against Brenda Snipes, allowing the statute of limitations to expire on bringing charges.

So I guess that's pretty much the story of my campaign experience. I get folks over the years coming up to me and urging me to run again for office, but I really think the fix is in against me. If I were to run for dog catcher, they would rig those machines against me. You're not supposed to do what I did. When you lose, you're really supposed to be more gracious, endorse the person who rigged against you. Maybe there'll be a position for you in the party.

if you do that. And, you know, when you do what I did, the press calls you a sore loser, a conspiracy theorist. There's not a lot to be gained by trying to blow the whistle on this fix. There's nothing to be gained from demanding real elections and wanting to verify the outcomes. And that's how you know it's fake because of the obstruction of the government. This is the number one thing that makes it for me, I can't let it go. Because governments that act this way, well, we train auditors to flag them as corrupt. Governments that act exactly the way that our government is acting right now. It would be auditors would be on the hook if they looked the other way when governments or, you know, corporation heads were acting the way that our

government acted. But when it comes to elections, it's fine. There's no independence. There is no transparency, public trust is compelled and public trust can't be compelled. Yep. Yep. You know, in in 2023, I got a call from some folks from Maga World asking if I would speak at an election forum in Palm Beach. And I did. And at that point, you had the beginning of the 2024 presidential election with DeSantis running for office and President Trump running. And I told the story of what happened. Lara Logan was the moderator of that entire event. It was a very interesting event.

There were lots of very compelling speakers. And I told my story, and I basically called out Governor DeSantis, who, like I said, I had already voted for him. I mean, I think he's been a pretty good governor, and it could have been far, far worse had Gillum got elected as we can now surmise between COVID and Gillum's personal faults. but I called out to Santos and he had just in Iowa made some statement that Florida was the gold standard of election reform. And I basically said as long as you've got these electronic voting machines, it's not American citizens counting the votes. It's a cartel of shadowy companies and that's not putting America first.

So I called him out and did not support him. I supported President Trump again. And more recently, about 18 months ago, when President Trump was newly back in office, I was also called and asked to be part of a team of a dozen or more folks that were drafting an executive order on reforming our elections.

And that executive order was pretty comprehensive and it included the justification for presidential authority under a declared state of emergency. It's still yet to be seen whether President Trump will move forward in that direction. But his one executive order on election reform that deals with the mail-in ballots did come from the proposal we drafted. The proposal we drafted goes further in that it would also ban the electronic voting machines. And I think there's no way to have real trust and confidence in the outcome of our elections as long as you have these electronic voting machines. I agree 100%. I've done between Ash and I, we've done more podcasts, writing investigations.

I sat through the entire Curling v. Raffensburg trial, J. Alex Holderman's testimony where he flipped votes in front of a federal judge. Literally flipped votes. Amazing. Three different ways with a pen as one. instrument, a $90 piece of equipment you can buy on Amazon, and a cat card, you know, what do they call a chip card that you can buy on Amazon for $10. For $100, this guy was able to flip elections three different ways. And in front of a federal judge, in front of a federal judge, showed the judge, hey, you're going to cast a vote for George Washington. When the

ballot comes out, it's going to say George Washington. But when you actually tabulate it, it's going to be for Thomas Jefferson. Yeah. And the judge, one of the most, I don't know if you've ever read the Curling v. Raffensberger decision. No. Where Judge Totenberg dismissed the case after almost seven years. He dismissed it after seven years to, it finally gets to a trial, a full year that she

deliberated on the, on the case, and then dismissed it on standing. Yeah. Well, doesn't that say it all? Right. And found in the final ruling that the, uh, the, uh, the, the right to the, the right to your right to vote and, you know, other jurisdictions have found that there is actually no right to vote, Kansas being one of them. But, but the age, Amy Totenberg, Judge Amy Totenberg found that your right to vote ends at the casting of a ballot. You know, after you've been able to cast your ballot,

you have no right to ensure that your representation is accurate based on an accurate result. It's unbelievable. And that's that standing doctrine, right? It's amazing. You know, every time I have voted since that 2016 election, I sometimes wonder, why am I bothering? And I fell out the ballot and I put it right there at the scanning machine. I let go with the ballot. And at that moment, you know, I realize each time that who knows how that ballot has been counted. I, Tim, when I go and vote, you know, ever since 2016, I have. actually was the first time I ever remember voting and being like, well, I don't know how my,

my vote counted. Like, I don't know how my vote was counted when I put it in this machine. You just gave me a receipt that shows I voted. It doesn't say who I voted for. There's no list here. There's no auditable list where I can tell who I voted for. And, you know, because it's a black box voting machine, the numbers are completely skewed. You talk about Washington and I just want to mention this because she's my representative and she's going to most likely be my representative once again. And I say once again, not because she lost her last election, when she realized she was no longer going to win this district anymore when she had the pushback from Sheriffless McCormick and then even before that, she just said, I'm out of here and she went out to Fort Lauderdale. And she

went all the way out east into that district. And then when the, when the Clay decision comes back from the Supreme Court and district maps are being redrawn and they're being underdrawn and they're an unjerrymandered, she comes back out here. And Tim, she is wildly unpopular out here. Let me tell you, I realized it also. And it would crack me up every now. And then this is going back some years when I was still a thorn in her side. The Sun Sentinel would publish a poll that would show she's the most popular Democrat in the state of Florida.

And it's a joke. Not even close. It really shows that it's not just the elections at a rig, that these polls, you could pay pollsters to find what you want them to find. It's such a corrupt system from beginning to end. And the media is so complicit in all of it, the mainstream media. So, you know, my hat's off to what you guys are doing. You know, you're reporting the truth and it's not an easy task to do what you're doing. Yeah. I mean, I, it's, thank you. And we're, you know, we're both addicted to elections. So we've actually turned every show into why we vote and every conversation comes back around to elections.

But it's not, you know, there is this idea that we can fix one thing and then we can all just trust elections again. And one of the questions I wanted to ask you is about this. So bear with me for a second because you mentioned the voting machines. And there's no question, Brian and I both. agree with you. The voting machines black box corrupt can't be verified. You can't look at the source code. These companies are foreign companies, all of the things, right? But the rigged election, fake election system, I think begins with the drawing of districts, but certainly with the registration of voters. And when you have inflated voter rolls that, you know, I went through an effort

to identify what was true in the wake of the 2020 election. And I've been in court since 22. And You know, we've just got our victory overturned by the Tenth Circuit. We're back down in the trial court now over whether it's First Amendment, actually. It's the First Amendment case. But the checking of the voter rolls and the whether or not these people actually exist, are they, did they actually vote, right? Those kinds of questions. Yeah.

Radical response. We were dangerous for even asking the questions. It was a ton of effort. You talked about knocking 12. thousand doors a week as a part of your campaign. We knocked almost 10,000 doors over the course of about three months. And we know, we didn't have any money, right? It was all, you know, that's an impressive effort together ever. But that was an incredible amount of work. And here's the problem. We can give the, you know, eight to 11 percent anomalies with sworn affidavits that we have

to law enforcement or to whomever has the authority. And we did it all that. You can do that. they can go and undertake an effort to clean them up because they're digital they can be re-corrupted like that. And so the effort that takes is the voter rolls, fake voters problem. In my state, and this is not the case in Florida, but it is the case in a lot of states, all mail and ballots to everyone that's on the rolls. So you have mail and ballots being papered from the sky, basically dropping them from helicopters all over the place. the process and resources to deal with mail-in ballots that can't, that, you know, either come back to the office or deal with, you know, that whole thing is massive and it's entirely unnecessary.

But you've got all these fake ballots in the system. We also have ballot on demand printers. So, you know, fake ballots come from a lot of different places, right? So fake voters, fake ballots. And then you have the voting machines with the fake counts. We have to solve this entire ecosystem because what, as I understand it now, I love, Brenda Snipes's timeline on this thing because the very first election where I was able to vote for president, 2000 election, right? And I was in journalism school at the time. So I was glued to the

TV for 38 days waiting for an outcome of that election. It's hanging Chads. It was a disaster. Oh, my gosh, we can't do this again. Oh, look, we have this Hava legislation ready to go. And then the Hava legislation in 2002 births the election industry. Well, Brenda Snipes was hired into that role in 2003. Act Blue began in 2004. When Red came later, but they eventually end up at the same place. And that fake voters, fake ballots, fake counts, going back to it is how the system is designed. You mentioned that you won't run again, right? Because you don't trust that you'll get a fair shake. You don't think that you'll be able to. But you still vote. And I still vote too. I'm not telling people not to vote. But reconcile that for me.

Not running, but still going. You know, Ash, I'm still trying to reconcile it. I remember it was probably right around 2019. I started to say, why should I even bother to vote? I don't think I'm going to vote. It just encourages this. The system's so corrupt. And yet I felt compelled to vote in 2020.

The stakes are high, hoping that, you know, if the turnout of real people is big enough, it can overcome the algorithms. And that's one of the theories, of course, that Trump won so big in 2020 that he did overcome. I'm sorry, in 2016 and in 2016. Yeah, 2016. Yeah.

Yeah. And in 2024 as well. So, you know, I keep going through the motions of voting, even though, like I said earlier, when I let go with the ballot and it goes into the scanning machine, how's it being counted? Yeah. So, you know, it's sort of like you try to have some kind of faith

that somehow your vote matters. And maybe even if my vote is being flipped, it matters to one person, myself. You know, I, my political identity had to change. I was a lifelong Kennedy Democrat. And the Democratic Party that I was committed to had changed so dramatically that I had to come to grips with it when I would vote.

And I became an independent. and, you know, a year ago or two years ago, I finally registered as a Republican so I could vote in a primary. That's unheard of in my family. I can't tell you how many friends and colleagues, like, don't speak to me anymore. You know, and unfortunately, that's the times we live in, this kind of cancel culture. Yeah. And between the change in my politics, and, you know, I say,

the famous Reagan line. I didn't leave the Democrat Party. It left me. You know, I was always for, you know, free speech and against censorship and for medical freedom and for secure borders, sensible, sane, common sense policies. And the Democrats lost their minds on these kinds of important, very important issues. They became the party of endless wars and CIA interventions around the world. And I could go down the list. They're the party of globalization. And while I had parties are though, that's the thing is that it's both, it's both parties because I have a similar, I didn't run for office, but I left the Republican Party in 2011 because it became obvious that they were working against the Tea Party. And as a, you know, Tea Party member, I've been independent since or unaffiliated since 2011. And I think the parties are a big part of the problem. Absolutely. In my state, in college, just finished with this, at my state in Colorado, 51% of the elector, it is unaffiliated now because the parties are so dead talk a little bit tim if you would about the

response from republicans with the brenda snipe stuff with because i think you have one of the best cases of the uniparty in action kind of you know visibility you know when when i was running in 2016 as a democrat and you know we're raising a ton of money you know i needed an infrastructure that included a campaign lawyer just for compliance issues And I had called up a lawyer that had been referred to me who was based in New York City and he had great credentials within the party, you know, an election lawyer. And I called him, he was going to represent me. And I told him my plans to file in early January of 2016. And a couple of days before the filing, he basically quit and tried to.

convinced me not to run. Okay? Well, he was tied to the DNC and to Hillary Clinton and all of that. So I ultimately hired an election lawyer, Len Collins, who was a Republican, and he had worked for Marco Rubio when Rubio was a state senator. And it seemed a little strange running, being a Democrat, hiring a Republican election lawyer, but I trusted him, and he did a lot of good work for me. He was the lawyer who deposed Brenda Snipe and discovered the ballot destruction. And when the judge had ordered, had granted a summary judgment and had in a 10-page written order, the findings of fact that the ballots had been destroyed. And I was, of course, hoping this was going to be.

front page news in South Florida and that the Republicans were going to be demanding Brendan Snipe's head on a platter and I'm delivering it for them basically. And it didn't happen. And I called up Lenin frustration. I'm like, what is going on? They've been after Brenda Snipe's for years. And here I've got smoking gun, you know, and he says, let me make some calls and I'll get back to you. And it took him a couple of weeks to drill down and he calls me back. And he calls me back after two weeks and he says, Tim, you're not going to get any help from the Republicans, not in Tallahassee and not in Broward County. I'm like, well, why not? They got the same friends as Debbie Wasserman Schultz? Yeah. What do you mean the same friends? The same lobbyists,

the same media consultants, the same financial backers. It is one big party. Yep. And you ain't in it. Exactly. And, and you know, the only question to me, is Donald Trump. Is Trump enough of a disruptor and an outsider? And is that why they've wanted to impeach him and everything else? Has he been co-opted, maybe on some issues? But to what degree? You know, because the mainstream of the Republican Party

and the mainstream of the Democrat Party is a unipart. Well, the Trump thing is a great point. Because, you know, whether or not, and again, I think me and Ash would both agree that there's plans in place with President Trump, things that are taking place right now that are well beyond our comprehension. But the one key issue that he has been resolute on the entire time is election integrity. Yeah. And to me, that is the number one issue that, like Hillary Clinton, well, okay, not knowing who she is,

Hillary Clinton could run, come out of nowhere and have all of her ideas. I don't know who she is, but have all of her ideas, but be like, hey, we need to abolish voting machines. we need to abolish mail in voting. We need accountability in our elections. And I would say I'd vote for that if I could ensure somehow that you would actually hold true to that, which I don't think she would. But Trump so far has been talking enough about it. The problem is, Tim, and this is to the point you were just saying about all these people

knowing everybody and being all in the same uniparty is the bureaucracy goes deep, even in the Trump administration. And, you know, I've had, I've done more work, you know, reporting on what's going on in Georgia and everything. I'm hearing the same thing up there. They seized the ballots from Fulton County, you know, nine months ago. And we haven't seen a damn thing about that. We're coming up on the midterm elections.

We haven't seen anything about that. You know, Maricopa County, they had a big announcement down there. Puerto Rico, they seized ballots down there. You know, we had friends that were special government employees in all of this. And every single person that I've talked to about all this says that it's the top down that is, a fish rots from the head first, right? Yeah. And you're seeing the rot.

And it's not President Trump. It's just below President Trump that all of this is starting to happen. And you got to wonder in a system that's this big and complex, like, what is the actual possibility that President Trump is able to effectuate his agenda on election integrity going down? And we've seen nothing from Republicans. Nothing from Republicans. The Republicans are obstructing him in the Senate. Yep.

Not so much in the House, but in the Senate. the federal judiciary has been obstructing this. Law enforcement agencies don't seem to be bringing cases, as you've pointed out. Why? Are they afraid the cases will just be dismissed by corrupt political judges? Maybe. But, you know, when you drill down and look at the nature of the crimes that we're describing, it's organized crime.

Yes. you know, criminal RICO cases. John Solomon, formerly of the Hill, now it's what... Just the news. Just the news. I mean, he's reporting that there's a federal grand jury on a great big federal criminal RICO case in Puerto Rico. Grand treason is what they're calling it, yeah.

Well, and I was about to use the word treason. I was. And when you start getting into the realm of treason of rigging elections to overthrow the will of the people and elected government and to be working with foreign enemies. Now you're in a whole different realm that this country has not been in for 250 years other than maybe the Civil War

where President Lincoln invoked the Insurrection Act and there was martial law over the southern states. But it might be that the only way to clean up the... And our Constitution was inverted through the Reconstruction Amendments, but we don't have to... Well, that is true too. The 14th Amendment is not what they say it is. That is absolutely true.

You know, that's the federal judiciary. And I've got lots of gripes with, you could say, Supreme Court jurisprudence in a number of areas, including the 14th Amendment. But one wonders, really, is that what it's going to take? Is the military to actually supplant the Article III courts to clean up this? It's beyond the mess, this treason, this corruption. Yeah, but they've painted him as a fascist. And so if he ever does something like that, you know, you're just, you're just sealing your fate by doing that. But it needs to be done.

It's narratively, narratively, you are maybe. But, you know, depending on how the outcome of whatever that endeavor is, that might not matter. I will say this about your, you know, your question about President Trump, is he the real deal? 2016, the year your election was stolen from you, the first one, President Trump, in the wake of that election that he won, after Hillary Clinton was projected to win 99 to 1 in that election, President Trump was calling for an inquiry into the results. He was shut down by his own party. There was there was no inquiry. We still had Paul Ryan back then, right? So 2016, he was talking about election fraud in an election that he won. He was shut down. He was. was talking about election fraud in the run-up and during 2018 and in the run-up during and after 2020 and in the election that he certainly in 22 midterms which were an absolute joke and then 2024 another election that he won he's still talking about election fraud and and here's the thing elections is not just some other domain where there's corruption elections are the manner through

which we give our consent to be governed it is the entire enchilada, it is the whole foundation of their legitimacy. In fact, when the Shield of America was talking about, Brian loves it when I bring this up, when the Shield of the Americas was talking about the Colombian elections. And, you know, the Gustavo Petro and others were crying fraud in the Colombian elections, recent ones that just happened. The Shield of the Americas, America and like, what is it, Brian, 12 other nations in Central and South America came out and said that the, the will of the people freely exercised at the ballot box constitutes in the competent

election administration constitutes the sole foundation of the legitimacy of public power that's the statement this year from the state department now they were talking about columbia they weren't talking about america yet but but it applies here because we're not allowed to look if you look if you ask, you are character assassinated, demonized, ostracized from polite society. Yeah. You're an election denier or an instructionist or some other. Absolutely.

I got called all of that. And, you know, President Trump holds what, he addresses the nation from the Oval Office a month ago on a Thursday evening. And the network ABC, CBS, NBC, they don't even cover it. And we'll fact check him. We'll cover it after. We'll fact check CNN. We will fact check him, but we don't want to cover it without fact checking first.

And he was reporting on essentially what was declassified by Tulsi Gabbard on her way out. You know, so there's evidence from the intelligence community of foreign election interference. And the media will not report about it in a serious way. They'll, you know, debunk it. By the way, I remember the name of the expert who said that the chances of me losing the way I did that second time was like winning the lottery every day for a year. Dr. David Bader. Oh, okay. That's not.

He had been the head of computational science at Georgia State University. And then he essentially in 2019 joined the New Jersey Institute of Technology. as a distinguished professor and directing an Institute for Data Science. So, I mean, the guy is so well credentialed and security clearances and all that. And, you know, I think what happened to me happens regularly. I think what made mine unique is it is rare for a candidate to create a fuss and to ask to see the paper ballots. But it's been normalized, I believe, to... rig elections and it's so normalized that it doesn't look like they're rigged.

They can do it through computer algorithms. The media reports it as if it's fact and nobody ever complains. There's also this notion in this country and I know as a former Democrat you might disagree with me on this, but there's this notion in the country that we're a 50-50 country and I don't for a second believe that we are. I really don't. I do not either. I don't think we're a 50-50 country by a long shot.

I think some of those states where they're solidly blue, like New York and California, I don't even believe they're solidly blue. I don't either. And it comes down to metropolitan areas. And it comes down to mail-in balloting. And the two go hand in hand. So like when President Trump is out there saying, save America, we need photo IDs to vote, also limited mail-in balloting.

And then he passes U.S. Postal Service rule. And you see Judge Talwani going absolutely bonkers over this rule. I mean, she is just like, like taking a crap all over the Supreme Court. court left and right. You know, I don't know if you have an opinion on that case, but I've said that, you know, the Supreme Court early on in Trump's second term in the the Casa versus U.S. case ruled that district judges do not have the authority to impose nationwide injunctions. And they just, and they're just ignoring the court. Well, it's not even that she ignored the court, sir. It's that she said 23 states that are plaintiff

in this case, we're going to ban it against them. And then like a few weeks later, after the D.C. Circuit said, we're going to let this ride out, she's like, okay, wait, that's not good enough for me. Nationwide and ban on the USPS rule. I don't understand how this is allowed to go. Yeah, I know. The Supreme Court allows federal district judges to ignore that ruling that you mentioned, that a district court is not supposed to have nationwide injunctions. And that's what I mean.

It's not just the legislative branch. it's also the judiciary at this point. I mean, I had come to believe that much of Congress is bought off. And those who are not bought off might be blackmailed or extorted. Okay. And what's changed over the years is I've gone beyond thinking it's just Congress. It's the media. It's probably the federal judiciary as well.

Well, you teach governance, right? Don't you also teach governance? as a part of your law school, governance is about decision rights. So wherever those decision rights are held. Yes. Yeah, wherever those decision rights are held, you're going to find, you know,

either carrots or sticks in terms of how you can wield those decision rights. Exactly. Yeah. I teach a seminar on captured agencies, how the private industry has basically captured the legislative, the key legislative committees, subcommittees, and the bureaucracy. They do it through lobbying, campaign donations, and revolving doors.

And that's a concept that, you know, it's not unique. Political scientists have been talking about it for half a century. But I think as the economy has become more cartelized, you know, this is not exactly Main Street capitalism we're talking about. It's more like cartel crony capitalism. The capture, the incestuous symbiotic relationships have become very pervasive. Well, yeah, and the incentive structures behind them, right? I mean, we have Larry Fink on camera saying at BlackRock, we're forcing behavior change as it pertains to those sustainable development goals.

And that has nothing to do with, you know, those American companies affecting change or building their businesses in America. It means falling in line with global decision rights. And that's been a big part of our subversion. Final thing that I have, Brian, I just want to say, you said, you said, you know, you think what happens to you happen all the time. I think so too. I think that happens all the time. I think what makes your case unique, Tim, is you. Because you didn't bend the knee. You didn't let their pressure get you to compromise what you know to be true. That's very rare because we do see this happen all over the country. Brian and I watch elections very closely and we see candidates with solid cases to push back on results just cave because the party either A offered them a really good carrot or B, threaten them with a really big. Well, and Bernie Sanders might be the most noteworthy example of this. I mean, it was so clear that the 2016 primaries were being rigged against them. And the same pattern of flipping the votes, the cumulative voter tally, you know, all of that was very apparent in his races. And I think he's

done more to normalize election rigging by capitulating than anyone else in this country. Yes. We talk about, me and Ash talk about 2016 and 2020 all the time. and him capitulating in 2016. But then again, in 2020. And we talked specifically in 2020, they started out with the caucuses in Iowa and Nevada. And then they went from there. They went to New Hampshire.

And Joe Biden was a nobody in any of those races. There was one other one I can't remember in there. Then they went to South Carolina. And when they went to South Carolina, Joe Biden won every single district. He won almost all the delegates, and handedly. He was in like seventh place and I think his best finished before that was fourth place in the prior elections, the prior primaries. He goes to South Carolina and then what did they just turn

around the Democrats, Tim, what did they just turn around last month and try and do make South Carolina the first primary state. That's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think there have been a number of crossroads for this Democrat Party. I think my campaign was one of them. Had I won, and I was seen as a progressive Democrat, but when I say a progressive Democrat, nothing like the progressives today. It wasn't about identity politics. John Kennedy was a progressive Democrat, but it was really for a Main Street type of a platform. And in America First, kind of a platform. And then there were a number of other opportunities. They crushed Tulsi Gabbard. They rigged against Robert Kennedy Jr. when he was running for president. If the Democrat Party had had

fair primary elections, it would be a different Democrat party than it is today. And instead, they've painted themselves into a radical corner where the only way they can win, in my humble opinion is by rigging elections at this point. I, do you know, Tim, do you know Jen Perlman at all? Yeah, she had been a supporter in my first campaign, but then she ran away from the second campaign, and I've been very, I don't know how to say, it's suspicious of her intentions ever since. Well, so I met her in probably 2022 at an event that Luke Grudowski was put.

putting on in Fort Lauderdale. And I met her at an event. And her and I are talking back and forth without talking about the kitchen table stuff, right? No abortion, no gun rights. We're talking about, you know, the corruption within our government and all that stuff. And her and I hit it off. We talked for like two hours. And I've done a few shows with her here and there back and forth.

And I mean, again, if we get into like, you know, the kitchen table stuff, like, if we start talking about abortion, she's like, well, women's rights. And I'm like, well, you know, it's a baby. And, you know, you probably shouldn't kill it. you stay away from that stuff, and we're very much aligned on the corruption within our government, the populist movement. And that's kind of like what we talk about here on Badlands, the horseshoe theory, that the populist left and the populist right, eventually they're closer together on the horseshoe than the middle is, you know, than being from the, than is to the middle. I saw this in 2011. I was a professor at the time at Chapman University in Southern California.

and John Eastman was the dean of our law school. I was the associate team. I went to Marlauga with him for his premiere. I was there for that premiere, too. Yeah. It's a travesty what has happened to him, the lawfare against him. But when I was at Chapman, that's when the financial crisis occurred. And I was part of Occupy Los Angeles.

And, you know, actually just walking around the Occupy ILA encampment surrounding city hall, you could see when you talk about the horseshoe theory, there were certainly a lot of leftists, far too left for me. But there were also Ron Paul Republicans there, you could say. And I was there to speak about the Federal Reserve and how illegitimate it was. And, you know, look, this is one of the reasons I... It's a beautiful statement. One of the reasons I was warm to Bernie Sanders for a while was because he was at least giving some rhetorical energy to criticizing the Federal Reserve.

But he ended up, I think, being very complicit in the status quo with the Fed. He had appointed me to an advisory committee on reforming the Fed, and that's probably a longer conversation to have. But, you know, I was hoping that it would be progressive left Democrats who would bring about the change in the party and some Main Street policies for this country. And that's not about to happen. I think you talk about the horseshoe theory, the real energy for reforming the economy. And I do think comes within the Trump camp at this point.

Yeah, I do too. And I also think there's a fracturing going on. I think this is deliberate. I personally think this is deliberate. But there's a fractioning going on within MAGA itself. And we've talked about this many times. the America First side and the MAGA side, there's like a divide going on there. There's going to be a debate tomorrow.

I'm really curious to watch this debate. It's between like Joe Kent and somebody else and like Andrew Wilson and like Brandon Strachas putting it on. And I'm really curious to see this. What's that? Joel Webbon. Yeah. And there's big anti-Israel Christian. Yeah.

My prediction for this debate, my prediction here is that this whole debate is going to come down to personalities. they're not going to talk about issues because they can't talk about issues because we all agree, I think, for the most part, on the issues. The only thing we can do is cashiered at, you know, Thomas Massey did this, Marjorie Taylor Green did this, Donald Trump did this, Miriam Adelson did this, Susie Wiles did, that's all we can do. Because when we get down to the brass tax of what it is, and again, you know, to your point, Tim, this is, I think is the covert war. I think Trump is doing this deliberately. And I've said this all along that I think Tucker, MTG, maybe even Massey, this is all something deliberate because Trump is so toxic in certain circles that you cannot

possibly have somebody with every idea of MAGA deep in their soul. You cannot have them latch on to MAGA because it's affiliated with Trump. But the second you have people that are saying Trump is the devil, also I believe in everything Trump has promoted for the last 10 years, Now all of a sudden they're like, hey, I can get behind Marjorie Taylor Green all of a sudden. She's making sense. She went on the view. She was on the view. I can.

Yeah, no, I hear you. And maybe by Green going on the view, she's going to appeal to some diehard Democrats who will listen at least to some of her views where, look, most of my family in New York, the way they look at the world now is if Trump's for it, they're against it. If Trump's against it, they're for it. And you can't really have a discussion about the issues, unfortunately. Well, that's what Brian is just saying, though, is if you, yeah, if you have like Massey and who are oppositional to Trump, but they're advancing the same agenda, but they are, you know, doing it without Trump. I tend to think that that has a lot of legs because from a change standpoint, Brian's right. He's so toxic that you can't have the promised golden age and Trump be the hero of it.

bit and get a majority of the population on that train just because of, you know, who he is to them. But yet, Brian, you did also say that you think it's not a 50-50 country. So hold on. So that's my point, Tim. Hold on because that's my point. So we look at John Fetterman, right? And John Fetterman is one of the people that pops out to me because he's a Democrat. And he is a Democrat. Like he's, you know, he might be a moderate Democrat, whatever you want to call it, but he's a Democrat. Maga loves him. Matt, if I, if I do a, if I do my only senator, a Democrat senator that Maga Land loves. Exactly.

But why do they love them? Because he's speaking about out against the things that people are saying on that side against Donald Trump. And he's like, hey, we need to be kind of common sense on this. I think the same thing happens with moderate Democrats where they hear Marjorie Taylor Green for the first time. You know, other than in under the umbrella of Trump, they hear Marjorie Taylor Green talking about America First policy. or they hear Tucker Carlson talking about populist America First, you know, ideologies. And they're like, hey, you know what? I kind of agree with that more than I agree with, you know, allowing children to chop off their genitals.

I agree with that a lot more. And I think that is the key. And I think all of this comes to fruition in 2020, just before 2028. Perhaps I still think that there might not be much choice but to have military tribunals for reason. I agree with that too. We can do multiple things. And 100% we have to have that because as I have long said, we cannot have real elections until there is accountability and honesty about how fake they've been. Well, that's right. It's a moral hazard problem. If nobody gets punished for this kind of election rigging that goes on, it's going to continue. Yeah. Yes. 100%. No question.

Tim, I will give you the final thought here. But I just want to say before we let you go here, this has been a fantastic show. And I really hope we can get you back again. This is probably one of my favorite why we votes that we've done in four years. I appreciate that. Thanks. Yeah, well, I do think it's a pretty compelling story of what happened in Florida's 23rd district. That's what the district was at the time, at least.

And if I have to give credit to anyone, I'd give it to my nemesis, Debbie Wasserman Schultz. She was a great opponent. I never would have run for Congress in just a normal election. The fact that she was such a big target, the head of the DNC, and nobody else was willing to go after her. It was just one of those moments in life. I felt in my gut, this thing's going to go viral, and I'm going to make a difference. and, you know, I got to say thanks to 209,000 times an American hit the send button to donate money to my campaign. You know, I was lifted up on the shoulders of really so many people in this country.

And like I said, I didn't concede because I felt an obligation to all those people whose hopes I was carrying to follow it through and to reveal what actually the machine was doing. So I think I was very blessed. I think even to the point of I was probably, God was looking out for me to deny me from going to Washington, D.C. I probably would have been very dangerous for my body and soul to have shown up in D.C. as a congressman under those circumstances, I would have been the only Democrat against vaccine mandates. It would have been a very dangerous spot to be in, you know. So, you know, I just got to look at the silver linings of this. It was very disappointing.

I was brought up to be very idealistic about this country and what this country represents and the American system of self-government, very idealistic. And it was quite crushing and sad to have to have experienced it the way I did. But in hindsight, I think, again, I was very fortunate. I've lived to tell about it and I appreciate you guys having me on. Real quick, to the point you just made about, you know, all the corruption and everything, have you by chance watched the show, Lioness? No, I've had a friend of mine telling me I've got to watch that show.

You need to watch that. The first two seasons are great, but the third season nails into everything you just talked about. It's only halfway through right now, but I finally caught up and it's spot on to everything. we just talked about in terms of the corruption and Congress being bought and paid for and how deep it actually goes. I've got a friend who has told me about Linus. Now that I've heard it from you, I'm going to have to do something about it and start watching that. Fantastic show. Taylor Sheridan is amazing. He's a national treasure. Can we go through these rants real quick? Because a lot of these are directed at you. Sure. Okay. One with Kat says the guest tonight is great. So frustrating,

but it also shows yet again that election fraud is uniparty based maybe stories like this will wake up those on the left hmm i wish it would uh one with votes if we don't cast our own vote one with cats excuse me if we don't cast our own vote they will make sure someone else does bought on a tattooed teacher says thank you tim for coming to talk with us your election and the aftermath was a tremendous awakening for so many it exposed the apparatus and the network of election fraud She is our Long Island, our Long Island friend. Artie Joan, fantastic show, great guest. Two ticked off to sleep.

So thank you very much. You know, it was just, it was just 10 years. Two days ago, August 30. It was the 10 year anniversary of the actual rigged primary election I went through. Yeah. And thank you all for your hard work. Appreciate you. Thank you, Artsy, Joan.

Appreciate that. Reber Hart. Thanks, Tim. Ash and Brian, great interview. Badlands Media is the best. Thanks, Riever. And then one more, one with cats, one more time. I forgot how much fun it is to participate in the chat. I need to watch more shows live. Yes, you do. Yes, you do. Thanks, Tim, thank you so much for joining us. We got to get you on our book club show to talk about the Federal Reserve. I would love that. Thank you. Thank you both. I really enjoyed meeting with you both. Thanks for having me on. And where can people find you online real quick? I think just do a search. You know, I'm on social media. I don't have a website up right now. But if they go to Nova

Southeastern University to the faculty page, they just do a browser search for me and a law professor at Nova Southeastern. My faculty bio page will have a lot of interesting links. All right. All right, Tim, thank you so much for joining us, sir. Thank you. Appreciate it. Have a good night. You too. All right. He's awesome. He is amazing. He's really not us. The first time I saw him, I can remember right where I was. I was in my shop in Fort Lauderdale. And he was on with Dr. Shiva. And I heard his story. And I'd never heard it. I voted for him in 2018. He ran as an independent. And Joe Kaufman ran against him on the Republican Party. And I actually voted for Tim Konova. And, I mean, he got, I think he only got like 10,000 votes. And I was like, this doesn't make sense. The guy goes toe to toe with Washington. Anyways, that whole story when I heard that from from on the show with Dr. Shiva, I went back and I looked on X and I, I, I DM'd be back in like 2023. And I was like, hey, I'd love to get you on why we vote. And Zach was the one that ended up making it happen. So big hat tip to Zach on that. Yeah, super glad he did because that was a great discussion. And it's not, you know, we have a lot of guests on. this show. And it has been refreshing in the past few weeks that we have guests that will actually candidate guests, right, or former candidate guests that will actually talk truth about elections

and the very real problems. You know, the question about how is it that you're not going to run anymore, but you still vote. That's a tough question. We all, you know, we argue about this on badlands all the time about whether or not it still makes sense to vote. And by voting, are we perpetually, you know, continuing the pain, are we extending the pain of the fake election system when what we could be doing collectively as the American people is demanding that we cancel this upcoming midterm election until we, and then demand real elections. But, you know, I mean, if the election goes on on November 3rd, I'm going to vote. You're going to vote, right? I think the majority of the chat is going to vote.

Is it a fool's errand? Maybe. But I do think that elections are the biggest battlefield that we have because it is the foundation of the legitimacy of public power. And it is the mechanism through which we get our consent to be governed. He said at one point in the interview, you know, I cast my vote. It matters to me, right? Like ultimately my vote matters to me.

And the one part of our election system that I believe is, real is voter intent and we can't give that away you know what do you think would have happened in his 2016 election had those same things happened to him as a democrat in 2020 when we saw what happened to president trump because that that was what was long spears kind of situation kind of it was primary and he was running against the machine he was running against shultz it was the you know the chosen the chosen one michel michel long spears capitching immediately too. Like didn't want investigation, just like Spencer Pratt did out in Los Angeles.

You know, Spencer-Long Spears had her case, had her race overturned, Brian. Right, right. She had it overturned. But I've told you, I've laid out why I think Michelle Long-Spears was the same exact thing as Antrim County with my dear friend Bill Bailey up in Antrim County. I've laid out using Halderman's own work,

why Michelle Long-Spears was the same thing that happened in Antrim County. And if that's the case, every down-battle. at race in in in in in in decab county needed to be audited and they didn't they only audited and overturned michel long spears race yeah i don't i don't think it would matter i don't think it would have mattered because because tim was already in 2016 approached right by the party will make you the stacey abrams well you'll have a role you'll have all the trappings you'll have the thing and the and he wasn't willing to compromise his integrity and you know abandon his moral comfort in order to just go along to get along.

That is so rare that that kind of stand is taken against the party. It is very rare. But you know what? This was the point. I didn't get to mention this. The primaries is where all the magic happens. The primaries is where you can get candidates like Tim Konova. Once you go past the primaries, it doesn't matter.

It's like betting for shit or a turd. You're, you know, one way or the other, it's the same thing. One way or the other, it's the same thing. Yeah. We are out of time and we still have two ads, I think. Yes, we do. Let's talk about soft disclosure. These are the hands that built America. Hands that hammered. Hands that welded. Hands that carried the weight of a nation.

Soft disclosure offers here for the hands. Good Lord, Randy. Working hands take a beating. Soft Disclosure gives rough, dry skin, lightweight hydration that absorbs fast without leaving your hands greasy. Every purchase supports six small American businesses. One from everything they do. Take care of the hands that take care of everything else. Thanks, Papa.

The hands that built me and you. All right, softdisclosure.com. code Labor Day, get you 17% off and take it away, Ash. We also sign up for the insider updates at softdisclosure.com. It's where you get the exclusive discounts, product information, review information. It's a lot of fun. You want to be an insider. That's where you want to be.

We have a lot of new updates and products and all kinds of fun stuff coming with soft disclosure too. And you will know about them sooner if you're an insider. So soft disclosure.com. Make sure you're signed up for the insider updates and use promo code Labor Day for the rest of the week to get 17% off. And if you really want to be an insider, Patriots, the fight for truth doesn't stop at the screen. It's hitting the road again. Badlands Media is coming to Las Vegas, September 17th through 19th for the next stop on the Great American Restoration Tour.

Join your favorite Badlands hosts and like-minded Americans for three. powerful days of unfiltered conversations with deep dive panels. I understand this is an emotional talent. Real debates and tough questions. No topic is too hot. No question too bold. Tickets are on sale now at badlandsmedia. Dot TV slash Garten.

Can't make it to Vegas? Grab a virtual pass and watch from home. Question the narratives. Fight for America's future. Vegas is calling. The restoration continues. Get your passes today. We'll see you in Vegas Patriots.

I love the end of that. I love it. Nobody get me another whiskey. You know, he was actually singing the Almond brothers. I know, I know, but they, Green Star, whoever made that, synced it up perfectly where it looks like ghosts saying, so why get me another whiskey? I know. So, one, the hotel is awesome. It is a respite from the strip, but you're still generally on the strip.

it is a great venue for us and all of the panels and everything. And then our karaoke bar for Vegas Gart is actually in our hotel, which just makes it so awesome. And that's, you can see Ghost in that video is on the stage in that karaoke bar. And it's really cool. Have you ever been on a cruise? Yes. Okay.

So you know, like if you're on a cruise and then you go into a club, you enter a different world kind of thing, right? Like you're all of a sudden in a in a club environment. And it's like, you know, you're not in a little. You have that in that karaoke club. Like you, you, there's like this, you know, you're kind of in the lobbyish upper lobby level area. And it's like, oh, this is boring. And then you're transported into a just super fun environment.

We're going to have so much fun. And you should really join us, badlandsmedia.tv slash events. Get tickets to kind of hang out with us in Vegas. And if you can't join us in person, then grab a virtual ticket. you can still be part of the experience. You can still ask questions of the panels and, you know, get a whole bunch of behind the scenes. Cool, fun stuff that we do at Gart.

It's going to be a blast. When you were doing your homework on our guests for tonight, did you happen to watch the show of He Who Shall Not Be Named on this show, the interview that he did with him? You know who he who shall be named. Yeah. Well, he shall not be named. I'll name him.

all damn day long. He who shot up. Has my back in the chat on this. Did you see the interview with him and Tim? I didn't. I watched the interview that he did with the guy that's running against Wasserman Solz Schultz this year. It was a carbo.

Not that it means, not that it means anything. Not that it means anything. But last week we had Clint Curtis pronouncing it Nevada. Burn also pronounces it Nevada. Oh my God. Well, you can have that one, Brian. You can be on that.

You can be on that team because that team's wrong about a lot. Yeah, that team's wrong about a lot. All right, guys, thank you all so much for joining us. DefCon is probably live right now. Smash that thumbs up. And we're definitely going to have Tim back on. So thank you guys all so much. We'll see you guys.

Bye, guys.