Bandsplain - 24 Question Party People: Nathan Willett of Cold War Kids

Episode Date: November 14, 2023

Nathan Willett of Cold War Kids is on the show to talk about the soundtrack of morning school drop-off, the complexities of personal faith as seen through the prism of peak Pitchfork, the CWK shampoo commercial that could have been, and turning down dream tours because it was the mid-aughts and everyone was saying no to things they should’ve said yes to. All of this and more, this week on '24 Question Party People.' Host: Yasi SalekGuest: Nathan WillettProducer: Jesse Miller-GordonAssociate Producer: Chris SuttonAdditional Production Supervision: Justin SaylesTheme Song: Hether Fortune Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You may find this hard to believe, but 60 songs that explain the 90s. America's favorite poorly named music podcast is back. With 30 more songs than 120 songs total. I'm your host, Rob Harvilla, here to bring you more shrewd musical analysis, poignant nostalgic reveries, crude personal anecdotes, and rad special guests, all with even less restraint than usual. Join us once more on 60 Saws that Explain the 90s every Wednesday on Spotify.

24 question party people. Four question party people. Hello and welcome to 24 question party people. I am your host, Yossi Salick. This is a show where I invite an interesting person on for a little talk. Ask the same 23 questions every time, more or less, plus one wild card. The guess is allowed to skip one question. Sometimes the questions change a little.

You know what Heraclitus said? You do know what Heraclitus said. there's nothing permanent except change babe. You guys, I must tell you, it's that time of year where I am running on fumes, babe. Fumes, I am burnt to little crisp. I no longer know where I end and the Google Doc begins. But you know what? It's the home stretch.

It is the darkest before the dawn. And soon, it's going to be the holidays. And despite being raised by Iranian immigrants who are Muslim and Jewish, I do absolutely love the fuck out of Christmas time, okay? I have an 11-hour Christmas and holiday song playlist full of gems like Oit of the World. Also, this absolutely insane version of Little Drummer Boy by Justin Bieber featuring Buster Rhymes. That fucking goes, by the way. There's also an entire death row Christmas album, Death Row Records, that one I fuck with heavily.

Anyways, lots of other songs on there. and it's ready to be played while I deck the motherfucking halls with Bows of Holly bitch and also drink my keto hot chocolate by the fire. I cannot wait. I'm sure some dicks out there would disagree. But I don't think you have to be Christian per se to love Christmas or even honestly to appreciate and respect J.C., who I am sure would agree with me on this one. You mad about it?

Go tell it to a wall, bitch. Dogma is boring and dusty, babe. in this house, we fill our cup with faith and spirituality no matter how idiosyncratic and personal. Okay? That's just what we do. For this particular reason, I especially enjoyed my conversation today with Nathan Willett, the frontman of the Cold War Kids, who besides being an absolutely gorgeous singer and a very talented songwriter, is someone who can speak to faith through like a really personal but also broadly cultural lens.

And our talk covered some really fucking interesting ground. Plus, I got to once again talk about my complete distaste for the mid-aughts. I loved it. I hope you do too. Here it is. Nathan Willett, welcome to the program, bro. Hi, thanks for having me. Oh, my God, I'm so honored to have you.

Would we say we're friends? I'd say we're like sort of friends or online friends I was actually thinking about that this morning and I was like yeah I think we're like Max was hanging out with you and I think that's when I was like yeah we're friends I don't know if I was like yeah I know her

or it's like yeah we're friends somewhere in there yeah so many years ago you guys not that many years ago maybe like five years ago your intrepid host was sent off to Athens Georgia, because they came up with this idea for the Cold War kids to do a little video honoring R.E.M. in Athens, Georgia. We went to, like, the place they played their first show, right? In that cool, like, church thing. Yeah, which is cool and weird because it was, like,

so small. I don't know how it was, like, maybe what the show was. Yeah, I don't know. I know we played, I know we did this, like an acoustic version as the song Drive. And I remember I figured out and it being like maybe good, maybe not that good. I thought it was pretty good. And then I got to go see the Cold War Kids perform live in concert that evening. Which I actually, now I think about it, we put out a live record and I actually think that was the night of that show maybe that we recorded that night and that became the live record.

It was an incredible show, you guys. I was blown away. You covered a Rihanna song, if I remember correctly. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Love on the brain. Yes, yes. So it really just depends how loosely you guys define the word friend. But like for our purposes,

listen, we keep tabs on each other on the Instagram platform. Yeah, we've swapped some DMs. I will say I remember in Athens being like, whoa, I really like her. She's really cool. Oh, my God, same. Actually, you know, and I remember because it was like, I don't really know what you do. You're like, do everything, you know, or like, I do music videos.

I work for like label. I do this. And I was like, okay, well, like, let's do, like, you know, I don't really like do that often. It's like, well, let's do something, whatever it is, you know? So. Yeah. I like to keep shrouded in mystery, a woman of mystery, as everyone knows, except that I tell everyone all of my business on a podcast platform as well.

It's the duality. It doesn't help me one or the other. You're doing it. I got to do it both. Nathan, congratulations on releasing your 10th studio album. Thank you. November 3rd, Cold War Kids, self-titled. Uh-huh.

Uh-huh. So happy. We're really pumped. It's all going, it's all happening. It's great. It's very good. I really enjoyed the song, another name in particular. I played that one for myself several times.

Good, good. Thank you. You're a very soulful singer. Thank you. You're welcome. Are you in the middle of like a harrowing press day? No, actually, not really today. We did a lot of stuff the last few days kind of through the weekend.

So it was almost like weirdly Monday. I was like, this is kind. And then we're going to New York tomorrow. This is kind of my, like, other than this and something, I was like, this is the day when I kind of knew, I'm just going to chill out a little bit. Amazing. Gorge.

Well, are you ready to get started? Have you listened to the show before? It's okay if you haven't. I have listened to Bandspoint. I started listening to the Kills episode because I love them and because I, we did a thing the other day where we were sort of like meeting in the hallway, like I've been a fan of theirs forever. and we have the same management, but we're always just like,

so I got to meet Allison after we did this like serious XM thing, and I was like, what? But then she was on the show, and that was fun, and they're like such royalty. So that was like, I listened to that. But then I also, and then I was, I think I was thinking to myself, am I supposed to prep for this or just kind of off the dome? It's really a personal preference.

Like, I feel like either one is fine. No matter what I'm going to ask, follow-up questions, so there's no way to have like a rehearsed way to do it, you know? Great, great. All right, well, let's fucking go. Let's just get started. Yeah. Number one, Nathan Willett. What is your

astrological sign? I'm a Libra. Interesting. Yeah, what does that mean to you? Are you not an, are you an astrology person or no? I like, am like, like, you know, I don't know, I don't know much. But I, I, yeah, I'm very open to it, shall I say? Sure. Yeah, I feel like that conversation is much more intelligent than it used to be.

I agree. Yeah, I'm hoping people have a little more respect. Yeah. For, you know, I was going to say the craft, but it's not really a craft. The science. The age old, yeah. Yeah, the age old mathematical. No, I don't know. I don't know what it's called. What does it mean to me? Okay, well, I mean, Libras, in my experience and from my understanding, I'm not like,

you know, I'm not an astrologer over here, but I have a working understanding. It's a Venusian sign ruled by Venus, much like myself, Torres, which means that you're aesthetically minded into beautiful things. LeBras make good artists for that reason. Very charming and romantic and intelligent, but also very diplomatic, very diplomatic, very extremely overdeveloped sense of justice. Yes. Oh my God.

It's also so accurate. But you know, it's crazy. Libra's can also be very indecisive because of this. Because it's very difficult for them. Yes. To like weigh the options properly. They can also be prone to gossip. That's all of, I mean, it's so accurate.

That's my whole life right there. You just said it all. People like to say like, oh, we can apply that to anyone. like I don't identify as indecisive. You know what I mean? Like I don't have that. Right, right. Like, no, that is literally all of my strengths and weaknesses are right there.

Like, um, but this is why I realize like I really, I will hit a certain point in anything and any decision making. Or it's just like, okay, now I really need somebody else. I really need to know what somebody else thinks. And then, um, and all that stuff. Like I get, I'm kind of almost like embarrassed by that. I would always love to be like, no, I've had this thought and I saw it all the way through and I knew it was right, but it's like, no, I really hit a point.

It was like, I just need to know what somebody else thinks. And for the most part, you're like, you're right. Let's do that. Right. I will, I'll do that. I think the time-honored tradition of thinking about things and weighing options has sort of gone by the wayside in our modern society. So actually, I do feel that it's a good and positive trait to have,

to take time to think about things. And, you know, I will also say on the gossip front, I have some gossip. Possip is underrated. You know what? Like people, a lot of people like, oh, God, it's like, you know, there's some, there's a book about, like, one of those, like, history of humankind books and how, like, gossip is, like, serves such this essential function in, like, groups of people

and needing to know what other people are up to without, you know, direct, always being direct contact. And I just just, like, I think I used to be more embarrassed. of like, oh, you shouldn't, you know, like, you shouldn't be, like, I don't want to get caught saying. And it's like, no, like, people need to, especially, like, in bands, especially. Like, you're constantly in that space of like, oh, shoot, I don't want to, like, betray this person's trust, but also, like, yeah, like, everybody needs to know what's going on, you know? So I would literally wither away without some hot goss, like, once a week.

Like, it's so important. Way too boring, yeah. As long as it's not, like, you know, ill-willed or, like, very nif. various, like, yeah, I think you're right. I think there's like an aspect of community building. Yeah. That comes from gossip. There's so many layer.

There's inner, inner, inner, inner. Life is an onion. And you have your people that you can say so to that are like, they're not going to tell anyone. The problem is that, like, I feel like often people are just like, no, we're all the same. Like, why can't, like, if you tell, it's like, no, you have to have an inner circle of trust.

You really do. Totally. All right. Number two, Nathan Willett, what did you eat today? So you're on the West Coast. It's 10.40 a.m. I have only had a cup of coffee today. That is all. Brove. Are we intermittent fasting? What's the deal? You know, I have done that. This is more like just a default, haven't got there yet. Okay.

Which is somewhat like typical. I'll do that. You know, I might have some oatmeal on it any average morning by now, but right now. I'm like a very, I'm going to eat based on like need. And if I don't, if I don't need to, I'll usually wait way too long and then go into the spiral. But, um, but right now, just the coffee. That's not healthy, Nathan. Yeah. But somehow it like keeps me going. I don't know.

Are you an early riser? No, but I take my kids to school. And that's like jeopardizes my whole, that's all that happens until like, You know, and then I come home and, like, recover for a minute and get that pot of coffee going and start thinking about myself. Sure. Well, I don't love that you don't eat on a scheduled basis, but, you know, I'm not going to intrude on your dietary life. Yeah. Okay.

I just feel as someone, you know, who probably needs a lot of energy, you're out here on the road. Yeah. Running yourself ragged on stage. And then at home, you're a lot of energy. a father chasing after two young children, you need energy. Actually, three. Three young children. I made that, I mean, you said kids and I just presumed.

I like, I like that it's three. Three is a beautiful number of children to have. Congratulations. Yeah, and it's three girls. I always, I like the sort of like, you know, it's like a Trinity. You're surrounded by women. I am surrounded by women. My life is, it couldn't be more polar.

Like my home life, I have three daughters. my companion spouse partner is a woman. She has so many sisters, and we have so much estrogen in our house at all times. And then I go on tour, and it is boy, boy, boy. Bro. Lizard brain, boy. Yeah.

Just bro time. That's a good balance. That's the Libro. It's even extending into your life. Nathan, number three, Did you listen to music today? And if so, what was it? We, kids in the car.

You listen to Taylor Swift. It's three daughters. You know, that actually just started happening recently. But right now, do you know the zombies movies? Those are the Disney zombie movies. I'm not familiar. It's hard to explain the arc that happens with certain, with like these kids movies.

Like there's these movies called the, descendants one, two, maybe, and three. Yeah, that always, they always come up when I try to Google the band, because I spell the band name wrong, and then those movies come up. Then I'm like, no, I don't want this. I want the, Milo goes to college is what I'm looking for. Right, but you got something you didn't plan on, which is the children of all of the famous Disney heroes and villains,

which the thing happens is those movies happen like, let's say, five plus years ago, and then the stars of those movies become the next pop stars. And so, Deb Cameron is one of those. Sure. And now, Zombies is, I feel like kind of that next wave. And man, when my kids are young and I was just like, this is, this trash is going to kill my ears. I'm going to ruin all my sense of, you know, creativity and, you know, just inspiration and everything.

And now the way I hear it, and it's like, duh. every parent, it's the biggest cliche, but you're just like, oh my gosh. The sheer, like, audacity of these songs, like I laugh out loud. I, L-O-L when I'm hearing them, even when I've heard them a million songs, they're just outrageous.

What are they about? Well, zombies is like, it's about zombies and werewolves, like inclusion, letting each other, you know, accepting each other in the high school where, like, are zombies like monsters? Yeah, but they're also really nice.

But it's just, I need an hour to explain why it's outrageous. But it's just, it's actually so fun and funny now to me. So that's what we were listening to on the way to school today. Yeah, I feel like it takes infinite patience to be apparent also. I mean, not that I'm not like this, but no one else has to deal with me listening to the same better than Ezra song like 22 times a day. But like kids love to listen to the same thing or watch the same movie like over and over and over and over again. Right.

I think you're doing maybe the same thing because it's not ironic appreciation. No. But it is not the same as this sort of like hit you in the chest. It's something else. It's an addiction. It's an addiction. I need it.

Yeah. I need the better than Ezra song or else I can't function. It's desperately wanting. Which one? I mean, is it the hit? Is it the y-hoo? No. it's desperately wanting.

It was also a hit, but it was the second second biggest hit. Okay, okay, okay. I don't know what, it just really does it from me. I'll do this. I'll do this for like four to six months, and then I'll move on to another song. Yeah.

Total normal behavior. Was that a song that you knew as a, like, when, because I feel like we're same age or a teenager, listen to it better than Ezra. Like, did you have that CD? Yes, I did. Friction baby. There's nostalgia.

There's a, there's a, there's a, nostalgic aspect. Absolutely. There's a familiarity. They feel it feels like Toad the Wet Sprocket adjacent to me where I can picture, even saying those words, picture swimming in my friend's pool and like that blasting over the speakers. I mean, like, this is, this is really the best life. Well, I always talk about this on various podcasts of hours of podcasts I do every week, but like, I do think, I don't know, well, again, we're the same age, so maybe you relate. I find the music from the 90s, specifically comforting

like in a subconscious way because when I was listening to it I was so young that life was so safe I mean it was like angsty and stuff but like ultimately it was like such a different world that didn't feel as overwhelming

because you were 13 or 14 there was social media like your world was so my world was so small and if there's like just like a safety and like a comfort attached to that so that I have that with the music too. So when I listen to it, it kind of takes me back to that place. Yeah. Okay.

So like for the sake of oversimplifying, but like, you know, whether just the sort of like indie or punk or whatever that you're also, do you have the same feeling of comfort and safety around that music that we are also maybe listening at the same time or later?

This is a great question. I'm interested because I feel like I don't know that about myself. I totally am relating what you're saying. I'm like, when did the, like, because like, say, for example, like, especially like a fat records or like, no effects or a wagon type of stuff. I'm like, oh, my God. There was that moment where I realized that whatever, the Toad, the Wet Sprocket collective

soul is like, oh, this is also very comforting and safe world, but like also a totally separate category for me. I think the fat records and that kind of stuff that I discovered kind of on my own, that was like my own, it felt like my own secret thing, you know, like that brings back a different kind of feeling. It brings back that like sort of like that excitement of like wow like this is my thing. I know about this. And no one does. Whereas the other stuff felt like way more around you like because it was like in the it was in the culture. If you would turn on MTV or you would like go in a store and like you it was like alternative culture was around you. So like that feels more like it brings me

back just to like the timeframe in the world. Whereas the more specific music brings me back to like specific parts of myself as a team. Yeah. Does that make sense? This is good. Totally. Yeah.

It's very interesting. There are two different things. One, it's like you actually went to the shows, the sweaty bodies, the people, the whole feeling. Whereas like all that big radio stuff, I never went to a concert like that. So it was always like, it's ubiquitous, but like distant. I'm working on the Bansplan episode for Boxcar Raceer right now. And it's like so crazy to me how.

Tom DeLange's voice hits a really, really specific part of my brain because I was like, Blink 182 was like my first favorite band that I discovered on my own that was active that I was going to show. Did you buy the Cheshire Cat CD? I did. Yeah. Oh my God, me too. I mean, how could a kid understand like what it was like to buy that CD and to be like,

nobody knows what this is? Nobody knows what this is. I mean, like, of course, like, I'm sure somebody told me about it like in my like, you know, school or whatever. But did you, do you remember even having a latent kind of sense of like the warped to a world or whatever?

Like, this is somehow more like sensitive than any of that. Like that world doesn't even love this. Yeah, it was, it really felt so special. I think because we're from, we're also from kind of close to each other, I think, where are you from again?

Anaheim. And, okay, whatever. I'm from Torrance, Torrance, which is the Orange County of the South Bay or whatever. exactly the same. Yeah, exactly the same. So it was like, it was also like just so reflective of our exact like surroundings in a way that was like, wow, like these are what the guys I have crushes on in school look like. Like this is like the exact culture. Like so it felt really like, yeah, this is like our shit. And I remember like, I'm sure that you felt this too. But because it wasn't that much longer like what was it like by the 98 or whatever they were like big on MTV. And to me it was. And to me it was. crazy. Like that blew my mind. Totally. I remember going to a party, like

a cool kids, popular kids party, which album would have been? I just remember... I didn't say it was the huge one. Yeah, was the one where that was blasting and I was like, whoa, whoa. Like this is, I've seen a lot of things in my time, but like that was like, whoa, this is

a big shift. Like, yeah. Yeah, but anyways, Tom Delang's voice is literally really the sound of my youth. I'm trying to think of, I was with somebody had like a hip hop playlist. And I mean, this is, I don't know if you would know who this artist is, but like there was some like very popular hip hop artist that their voice is like completely Tom Delange. And I was like, whoa, this is another.

A hip hop artist? Yeah, like, it's not like, oh, it's not like baby Keem. It's like, but like somebody had this play. I have to get to the bottom because like the delivery and the cadence, everything was like, His voice put to like a modern hip hop beat and I was like, oh, Blink is so big because that type of like delivery and voice transcends the genre entirely. 100%. I've been talking about this a lot.

Every genre of everything now in my experience, not every, but like I hear it everywhere. Like in all this new music that I hear, it's that cadence of pop. Of specifically like Blink, What, A, 2, but also like whatever, like that milieu of emo pop punk, like it somehow is just, that's the way people sing now. And it's,

it's so crazy to me. These are the biggest artists in the world. Like, not like, like, even Blink, like, their new record could be like,

it's number one for like the first week. Insane, amazing. But like to the whatever, juice worlds or like, uh, ex extantion, like that type,

like, they're, angsty, but like weirdly punk rock delivery thing is, is so bizarre. I mean, this probably deserves, you need to do an episode of, on that alone somehow.

Because there's like real research to do there, like how the kids were drawn to that. And how the black kids were drawn to that. Like, that's a long story. Yeah. Well, I mean, it was the dominant rock culture, the dominant youth culture, in a way by the late 90s, you know?

It's very interesting. So yeah, you listen to Disney music today. Okay. Number four, that's how we got there. Circle back. What is the first song that made a meaningful impact on you as a child? I remember having, I think my brother had the stand by me soundtrack, the movies, the films, cassette tape, and I remember listening to that and it being very like,

oh my God, very, I don't know how old I would have been. But I also have a simultaneous memory of like being in the car with my dad listening to that and singing along to it and having never been like a singer or never like having any musical thing in my family but being like, we're in the night! Was your family like, what the hell? Him looking back like, what?

And the like the deep shame fascination of like, uh-oh, I feel like I just did something that makes me like not like a boy, boy should be doing or something or just like I just felt like a weird like ooh god like I don't think my life's loving dad like yeah something like what you know your dad wasn't like I can't believe my son has that voice because you have a crazy voice definitely not I don't think yeah I didn't have any probably it's funny I think about that I don't think I had any um like whoa you have a you have a good voice externally or internally till I was probably like um like 23 or something you never said you never

saying you didn't like sing in church like anywhere else that anyone would have noticed that you choir in school um i did stuff and i was you know even like but i just think i didn't really let it rip okay right you were holding back a little bit you don't want to stand out yeah totally libra interesting yeah i think there's something to that like i really do because even i remember when we started cooler kids and like there was a feeling that i needed to feel really like safe around a group of people that I really deliberately chose to be like, okay, now we can

like really open up. Yeah. That's very Libra though. That's very interesting. Yeah. That's a lot. Doing a lot here. Stand by me. Yeah, that's a it's a banger. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody can deny that. Ben E. King, the singer, I don't even know a single other song of it now that I think about it. Like I don't know if he just was like a

one-hit wonder or what? That can't be true. He had to have had other great songs that I need to look into now. I do know that the other song wasn't yak-d-y-y-y-ac. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's a hugely influential song for me as a child.

Take out the papers in the trash. It was really major, major song for me, for young me. I was fucking jamming to take out the papers in the trash. Yeah. Okay. Well, number five, what is the first album you bought with your own money or shoplifted with your own two hands? I don't know if the shoplifting is meant to be like cheeky or real.

Some people first shoplifting. My mother got me into stealing CDs. He would, especially Tower Records, you could go and they didn't have the plastic things on them. But we stole CDs like a, like it was a really ongoing a hobby. and the first CDs that I got were you two, Rattle and Humb and Criss Cross. The one with Jump Jump on it. I had the Kisongle of that.

Just Jump Jump. I didn't have the full CD. Right now, I couldn't tell you one other Chris Cross song. I mean, I think that was it. Rattle and Hum is a random one. How old were you? You were 10 years old and you went and bought Rattle and Hum? Who told you about you two?

No, I'm thinking stealing days. And like, that was just the first thing that popped in because you said that. I know, I definitely went to, I remember, I mean, a lot of, like, so much time looking at the warehouse, but like never buying, because like, you know, but yeah, cassette singles, is the question first album or anything? I think it could be anything. Anything, yeah. I mean, a lot of cassette singles before that, a lot of, like, I'm thinking of just, like, Queens Reich to Mr. Big.

Mr. Big to be with you. That's my one of my karaoke songs, big karaoke song for me. To Be With You? Yeah. Hold on a little bit of. Yeah. I remember being in the warehouse parking lot and actually crying in the car because my dad wouldn't let me get Tesla psychotic supper. And it was really just like, God, like, I want it so bad. Did they have warehouse other places? Because warehouse music was also my local big, big record store that I would walk to and shoplift from slash buy one dollar bin tapes from.

I don't know if that's a regional store. Yeah, I would love to know actually if they were all over the country or just like a SoCalc. Or what? And also like our age would understand and like you just can't undersell the significance of what happened when used CDs came in. Oh my God. Mass major. 1999 to like 699 and being able to listen to something before like it changed everything. Game changer.

When I worked at a record store at the tail end of there being record stores, so. I guess it was like 2001 maybe in college. The UCD trade was the big. I used to buy back CDs. That was a part of my job to like go through and price them and stuff, you know? Look out for scratches. It was great. Still the best job I ever had.

Wow. Yeah. There's nothing better than working out a record store. I had a brief stint in high school at Blockbuster Music. It was a Music Plus. It became a Blockbuster Music. And it was the first time that they, like, I was at the listening station

where you had a razor blade to cut the plastic without the learning the thing. People sitting down at the CD station then re-wrap it up again. And then that became, I think a lot of my friends would come in and I would just take all the the things off and then they would

put a big thing in their pants and walk out. But that was a huge thing. You could just listen to things before you bought them. They don't know. The kids don't know. They don't know how hard it was. They also never understand. I'm just taking a gamble. just seeing sponge rotting pinata and being like, that's cool looking,

I'll buy that. And then being like, hell yeah, this fucking goes. Yeah. Or buying something and be like, this sucks. I'm so bummed. I've made a terrible mistake.

And now I can't buy another CD till next week. Yeah. I don't know. Like, is there a way, like maybe over time I start liking it? But okay, records sale, like being in on that side of the cash register in that moment.

So funny. And just another memory that's coming up for me was I remember being so proud because my manager, you know, it was just like upsell, upsell. And I remember ringing somebody up who walked up with the Led Zeppelin

CD and being like, oh, do you know there's a new Coverdale page album that just came out? It's right here on our front, you know, whatever. And my manager, oh my, she was glowing. She was just like, A plus. He gets a raise.

This guy. Yeah, yeah. I know stuff. I absolutely, to maybe no one's surprise, annoyed my way into this job. Like, they were not hiring. I would come by every single day. It was an independent store called Morning Glory Music. May it rest in peace, Santa Barbara. I would just come by every day.

And I would be like, is there a job yet? And the guy would be like, no, there's no job. How about today? And then I would bring him a resumptuant. is made with a mixtape attached because that was precocious. Yeah. And then come back every day. Is there a job yet?

And then finally he just got sick of me. And he was like, oh, fine. Okay, fine. You can work here. And then I started working there. I mean, that's a movie. That is like, I know.

Too good. It was really the best job of my life. I can't, I can't overstress how it was the best job of my life. It was, what do you do? You go there. You have this sense of superiority because you're so cool

because you work at the record store. All you do is listen to music. day and then tell other people your opinion about it, which I guess is basically what I do as a job now, except I do it inside my house and it's slightly better paid. So maybe I do still have that job in a way. I mean, you completely do. Yeah. This is fresh for me too because we did a couple in stores these last couple days when we were fingerprints in Long Beach yesterday. I did a little and it was just so it's like reminded of all the feelings that I ever, you know, walking to record stores in, by the way, oh my God, I don't know if I should,

the tea on the big point one eight two was in there, like the, I don't know, a week before or something. They did an in-store at Fingerposts? They did a signing, and then they played at a Denny's around the corner. Oh, yes, I saw that on the internet. Basically, like, the signing that they did and how many, like, something like, 1,200 people coming to, like, you have to buy a record, and then you go get it signed, and like how intense this was.

And they were like, by doing this, this is going to put our record at number one. Yeah, everyone does that. It did. Like, it, like, the literally, like, the, 1,200 records they sold and how they're weighted by the stores and all this stuff, like literally bumped them ahead of Drake, you know, for that week. Honestly, good for them.

Good for them. Game the system. Can you believe that this is how it is? It's 1,200 CDs now to hit. number one. You used to have to sell like 600,000 or whatever. And you can get to make a second record. Yeah.

Listen, as long as a guitar rock music is hitting the number one spot, I'm backing whatever nefarious means it took to get there. Yeah. Even if it involves, you know, a bit of sleight of hand. I mean, people bundle tickets of shows with CDs to do that. That's like a very classic thing where they're like, oh, you get a free CD with your ticket. I don't even want to fucking see you.

Yeah, well, you bought one. So technically you bought one. And you can throw it away right away because our job is done. Go ahead and throw it away. 24-1. All right. Number six, Nathan Willett, did anyone in your childhood ever tell you, you're never going to make it or something like that, like they do in the movies?

And if so, who was it? And what did you say back? You're never going to make it. Well, it seems like you weren't really expressing to anyone that you wanted to be a rock star. Totally. totally I was too nervous and what did you want to be what were you telling people you wanted to do with your life

I just didn't think that this type of thing was possible so I lived in like a terrible fear that I was going to have just a job that I hated and that's what you had to do in life and that like you know so I thought the next best thing would be like that something in like reading or teaching and that I would do like an English thing right so that's why I think probably

ages like 15 to 23 or something, like a terrible fear of just like life is about like giving up on everything and just getting a job and all that stuff. But also I think another thing that played a role in is like, so my brother and my like best friend growing up was a guitar player in this band Death by Stereo and like we moved out with him when we were 18 and he started touring and he was a tattoo artist and was doing tattoos in our house and all this stuff. I feel like I and I, and I watch them, like signed an epitaph and do all this stuff. And he actually wanted me to be in death by story at one point. A devastating moment for me was being like, no, I don't want to because it's not like my style.

The music wasn't your style. The music wasn't my style. Yeah. And that was a real, like, very sensitive moment for our friendship because I think he took, like, obviously you're going to take that personally. But I guess the only, it's relevant because I just feel like every. those types of bands like sort of burned bright and quick, you know? And then it was like, oh, okay.

So anybody that came, even that was touring in that sort of punky world was always kind of like quickly probably had a backup like gig, you know, or something that they were. Yeah, right. They still had a job. Yeah. I just, I never saw an example of somebody that was like, oh, you're doing music in a way that seems like it could have longevity.

So once again, though, that really led to actual ulcers, so real, real anxiety about knowing, I think deep, deep down that I wanted to make music, but not like really having any idea of how that would work. So ultimately you are the one that told yourself you're never going to make it. Wow. Yes. I think that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's so sad. Well, I mean, it worked out.

Okay. Who told you that you could do it then? Again, like, I feel like I needed a band. I needed the sort of the friendship and camaraderie and brotherhood and blah, blah, blah, of that in order to be like, oh, it doesn't, making it is very subjective. It's very like, our friends were in this band, The Color, and I remember sitting down, like with our, the drummer, our friend, and they had just bought their 15 passenger van, and we're just like, yeah, we're just going to go. And I was like, oh, and I at that time was substitute teaching in Torrance. Shout out.

Whittier. That was the biggest revelation to me. I was like, oh, we just have to get the van. Like, we just have to do the thing. It's not going to suddenly reveal itself in any other way. You know, and so that, the van was, was the freedom to me. It's like, oh, that's what we have to do. I love that.

Yeah, I mean, I think the gag is that most of it is just doing it. Yeah. What happens after is sort of not up to you, but you got to start. I read, I thought it was very interesting that you ended up going to a college that you didn't want to go to, right? because your dad had a sweet deal. And then isn't it amazing that if you had never gone there, none of this would have happened.

Totally. I feel like I jumped ahead to give you your own answer to the sliding door question, but you can give it then. I just find that, I just found that really interesting. I found that very interesting because you were talking about faith. And I was like, wow, what an amazing way to prove faith.

Not prove, you can't prove faith, but you know what I mean, to like bolster faith to be like, Oh, did you think, did you think I was going to let you not have your destiny in favor? Like, you know what I mean? Oh, you didn't want to come here. Yeah. And then you had to come here and then look what I did for you. Yeah.

Because you don't know what's best actually. Totally. That is so real. Like going from junior college, finishing, you know, that and being like, oh, my God. walking by the booths of like, I remember, distinctly, like, here's UCLA, here's Berkeley and being like, oh, my God, like, my little, you know, consciousness was just awakening to be like, that's where I'm supposed to be. That's where I want to be.

But now I'm going to go to this school because it's kind of the easiest choice and because, like, I feel like, you know, probably my own, you know, the divorce, daddy issues and this and that and wanting to, like, a good, you know, son kind of thing. But also being like, I have my high school and like junior college, my crew. And these are my people. But so I'm not going to go here and have like, you know, this isn't going to change my life.

And of course, yeah, it didn't entirely. Sure did. All right. Number seven, Nathan Willett. Almost the last time you lied. Every day as a parent. lying. I lied this morning, my daughter. I don't know if she broke her toe or if she just hit it really, really hard against the bed. But she managed to go to Disneyland yesterday. But she also rented a wheelchair. I wasn't any of this. This was with your aunt. They got to go to the front of all the rides. But this morning for school is like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're going. And then when I dropped

her off and her school was like, yeah, we don't have any like thing like, of course. Like, why I would think that they did have like maybe a crutch or something. Yeah. Or like a fun little prop your leg up on a wheelie thing, which I think she really wanted probably more because it would be like, you know, it's a fun talk. Attention, yeah. Yeah. But I definitely told her like, I will.

They were like, oh, there's like a medical supply store down the street. Like just go grab. And I was like, yeah, yeah. So I was like, I'll be back. You know, I went to the, and I stopped by that place and they're like, oh, no, you need like insurance. You need that. And I was like, okay, never mind. And I was like, I'm not going back.

So she can just, like, she'll be sitting today. And that was a big lie. But those are just daily lies. So the lie was just that you couldn't get the thing. But you actually couldn't get the thing. Yeah. And then I, like, don't worry. We'll get the thing and I'll come back.

And it's like, you're not coming back. Yeah. Pretty certain, like the odds of that were slim. Yeah. It seems like from the number of parents I've had on here, they seem to all answer this question the same way, which is like, oh, yeah, you just have to lie to your kids. Yeah.

Yeah, that's part of parenting. Yeah. I mean, seems right to me. I'm not a parent, but. I would even add good parenting.

I think a good parent would be like, no, no, I'll figure it out, I'll ruin my whole day or just like, weirdly blunt for no reason.

Like, no, I'm not getting it for you because I don't want to. And then your kid has to be like sad all day because their dad was mean. Yeah.

It's okay. We all, we need a bit of, it's, you know, yeah, give them a little help. Lubrication,

you know, it's just, it's act as if, you know, the whole thing. Yeah. All right. Number eight, what character in a book or film do you relate to the most and why? That is such a good question. Oh, my God, thank you.

I wish I had a good. You seem like a reader. Yeah. I would say on the reader book tip, John Fonte books, like Ask the Dust, all those like Dreams of Bunker Hill and all those. Arturo Bandini is the main character in a lot of those. And it's funny because there's like,

you know, we used to live in Long Beach and in San Pedro. I've had our studio and there's actually a Bandini Boulevard in San Pedro. Because John Fonte lived there and was famously like, you know, a lot of his books took place there. And then he got real celebrated after Bukowski loved him and found his books in the downtown library and blah,

all that good lore. But yeah, to me there's like the weirdest mix of like really innocent um sweetness in in this recurring character of arturl bandbini and then also so insecure and so kind of like even like pervy funny humor and it's like but it a lot of it actually even it's coming back to the faith thing like it's weirdly like really rooted in this like faith thing like where he'll just go from like I'm the greatest writer on earth. No one will ever be, and then go, and then go to polar opposite to despair and like, I'm nothing. I'll never be, you know, and like, yeah, I don't know. I love that. And I just,

I think in my, in my daily life of moods and this and that and just going from like, oh, my God, everything sucks and I suck and da-da-da-da-da-da. And then going like, you know, and then something will happen where I'll be like, okay, this song is going to be the number one. I'm going to make a million dollars and I rule, you know? And both sides are so embarrassing and so like, so self-absorbed and all that stuff. But I'm just like, yeah, he was writing that like a, you know, 100 years ago or something. You know, close, I don't know, 70, 80 years ago. Yeah. That John Fonte. It is, I feel like very much the artistic temperament, right? Yeah. To sort of oscillate between those two modes. Yeah.

I mean, you probably kind of have to in order to, like, produce anything at some point. I'd be like, I'm the best. And then when it comes out, you're like, oh, no. I mean, if you stayed one or the other, it would be really annoying. But also, if you were really even-tempered, like, that would be so boring. So I've learned to kind of embrace that somewhat. But yeah, I think you kind of have to have that. Do you want to know something insane about Ask the Dust?

Part of the reason that it didn't hit when it was published is because it had very poor distribution because the publisher was embroiled in a very gnarly legal dispute for publishing an unauthorized version of Mindcom. Whoa. Whoa. So, dang. Bummer.

But thanks to Bukowski. Yeah, just like, I never got into it, to be honest. I actually went and read it because of Bukowski because I am a big Bukowski fan. Okay, sorry.

You never got it to Defonte. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, I don't know why. Maybe I need to, like, revisit. I will say Astidust is probably is not the best of them. There's a other ones are better. Asad Dust is probably the most, like, I don't know. I guess it's probably the most popular because it's kind of, it has,

it's the most sentimental or, like, romantic or something. And every other one I've read is better. And just, like, more, more funny and less, like, the sticks are a little lower. They're not so. I don't even remember exactly what happens in Asda Dust. I don't know that I didn't see the movie version of it, but I feel like it might be Colin Farrell. Oh, my God, is that sure?

I never even heard of it. I might be Colin Farrell and Penelope Cruz are the main characters. I feel like I also have that idea in my mind as like why it's like, ah, that's not that like is the one that for whatever reason became the hit book or the one, not even the hit, like the one that people think of with him. but it's not the rest. Okay.

I think the Colin Farrell one is Ask the Dust, right? There was also a film made of Wait Until Spring Bandini. Oh yeah. I didn't see that either. That's a very great, fun book. Okay, all right.

I'll go back. Yeah. I'll go back. I trust you. Yeah. I think that's right. Wait until Spring Bandini or dreams from Bunker Hill. You will love it.

You have to. Okay. I'm going in. I mean, listen, I love a, I love an L.A. referential anything, which is why I watch television program, Bosch Legacy. What's that?

Oh, it's the spin-off. I don't even say it's a spin-off. It's the extension of the television program, Bosch. You never watch Bosch? Never. Oh, my God, it's so good. It's about a hard-boiled Los Angeles PD detective named Harry Bosch, Hieronymus Bosch, and his exploits

and solving crimes, doing it his own way, playing by his own roles. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Did you ever get into the Perry Masonry? No, but I should watch. I really like that actor. I heard it's very dark.

Yeah. Our bass player Moss loves it. I haven't done it. I missed it canceled it, I think, after a couple. But yeah. I'll check it out.

I ran out of Bosch episodes. So now I've been watching Jack Reacher, and I also finish that. I think it's just called Reacher. This is the kind of shows I like. Okay. just so you know. Okay, number nine, this is the question, but maybe you have a different answer. What was your biggest sliding doors moment? As in if you had made another choice, maybe you wouldn't be here right now.

It refers to the Gwyneth Paltrow film. I think you said it earlier, but I think we did it. I think going to what is ultimately what I thought was like the worst idea ever going to a conservative Christian college. Yeah, I think it was a really poor choice, but ultimately, so much of my life changed because of that. Sounds like it was a big one. Yeah, it's at the stage. You know, it's weird because it's on so many levels, like the conservative, the religion, even just a private school, all that stuff. But there's so much to be said about finding your crew in a small pool. like how weird it was that like you just in a smaller school you instantly find the like oh you like music you like da-da-da-da-da-da-da-all this stuff like it's like I never really had that before I feel like I always was like in a huge environment where everybody's kind of you know these are skate kids these are the music but something they're reacting against the sort of like conservative thing and so there was a

an instant shared set of values that was never like explicitly said. It was just like, ew, we're not all those things, but here's, you know, we have this bond. Yeah, like an even more, it's great, that's kind of like an even more nuanced, um, connection that you might not have gotten at like a secular, you know, big school or whatever because you wouldn't have met people that like are perhaps like coming from the same, place as you and on the flip side, rebelling against the same place as you. Right, right, right. Totally. It's very interesting.

I did go back and read the pitchfork review of the first Cold War Kids album. Wow, really fucking makes you realize that 2000, was it 2004 or five? Probably five, maybe even six actually. One of those two. What an insane time it was that like, like you read it. I wonder if like the guy reads it back now and is kind of embarrassed because it's like, it's so like reductive of like what people are like I just remember like a line like I was like well blue state people might not get these like references like biblical

references and it's like do you think religion is state by state like do you think like god is state by state like it was so snobby like it was so superior it's so crazy to read now we're like I mean I guess some people probably still think that way but like the idea that if you were like liberal and sophisticated that you couldn't possibly have religion is so insane. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was like really like, ew.

Like this is crazy. Yeah. No, that's great. I mean, it's so funny. I actually wrote the thing about it. Yeah, I read it. I read your piece. The Daily Beast.

That's a great essay. You guys. Thank you. But yeah, it's funny because I, it's, oh, God. It was such a strange time. But when that review came out and, like, Like, you know, things were going for us. But I remember it was like a thing where some like really good reviews came in.

And then that, and of course, like everything's almost like deserves explaining like reviews were so important. Like they just aren't as much now. Especially online reviews at that time. Because that's like that's like peak blogo sphere time. Totally. And we had all these like the like the stereo gums and Brooklyn vegans. We had like everybody, like even, you know, we'd be on tour, we'd go to the city where they are. We'd hang out with them.

You know, and then when that came out, everybody followed suit to some degree. Like nobody had that degree of like just like vitriol towards not even just us, but yeah, that sort of tone that we're like, oh, whoa. Like, I don't even know how to respond to that. But yeah, the discouraging thing I think was that a lot of people were like, oh, I don't know what to do with these guys anymore in terms of like what their story is. Right, like the pigeonholed you in a way. Yeah, even like our publicist at the time, like I think I wrote a thing. And she was like, probably don't even say anything.

And I was like, yeah, I think you're right. Like just kind of like weirdly like kind of ignore it. But I, and even then I didn't know what the right. I don't know if I would have done something differently in hindsight, which is the great thing about, like, you know, having that sort of like that happen. And in some ways, really pivotal, but in other ways, like, it's just like, it's fine.

Who cares, you know? And you're going to, your fans and the people that like you are going to either, you know, if that becomes a deal breaker for them, then like. Hey, you don't want them anyway. Like you said that how it was like so indefinitely. of the time what became, is like, wow, this way of thinking, I feel

like the sort of like, yeah, the liberal academic, like it was a default, yeah. Right kid, which kid. Always like, you know, I think like you'd go on on tour and see the cities and see the kids that were like, oh, you're like,

especially in New York at that time, like, being in, you know, in New York and whatever, 2004 to 10 or whatever, and just how it was very cool and of course it was very aware of its own cool and um and yeah the sort of like man you couldn't the idea of talking about not like like faith but also even like this idea that like there is almost like it was like it was like the world is brand new and nobody believes in in god or or has any identity in any of that stuff and if you did you're like an absolute like regressive, like maybe even like hateful moron. Yeah, exactly. Well, hateful too. Yeah.

And it's like just like automatically assigns the worst qualities of some parts of which you could do to any, any type of grouping of people. It really made me realize because I always talk about it and I don't think I've ever like really gotten down to the nuances of why. But I hate that era the most. I've always talked about it. I find it the most repellent for me, like, looking, of course, there was, like, bright lights within it. And there's, like, music from it that I like or whatever. But, like, for whatever reason, like, that 2003 to 2010 is my most hated time. And I, I think it's, I really feel like it was the most godless time culturally that we ever had. And I'm using, I'm using that, not, that term not religiously per se. I'm like, like, people do not like,

I say God and I always try to explain that it's shorthand and no one, like, whatever, I don't care. That's your business. That's your trigger. Not you, Nathan. I know. I know you get it. But like, yeah, I do.

It's like the most spiritually bankrupt, just disgusting time. Because even the 90s, well, the 90s had like a bit of that sort of tension, that God is deadness, that Nietzsche, like sort of, but that's the tension. It was still in conversation with God or spirituality or whatever. But once you get to the 2000s, it was just devoid of anything. It was hollow. There's no longer a conversation. There's no conversation.

And it was just ugly and like and like irreverent. Exactly. Superficial. 90s were like irreverent in this way that's like the pro-choice. They're like, you know, we're anti-fundamentalism and things like that. But you still, they still stood for something. I think by the time the 2000 got to the 2000s, it was like we don't stand. for anything. That's cool. Isn't it

cool to not stand for anything? Like, isn't it cool to just be, like, superior and like have some, like, vague liberal values that don't mean anything and I don't, like, I really understood, clicked into place a little bit more for me when I was reading this, why I really hate that time. Wow.

So interesting. I mean, I, yeah, I, I, I am totally with you. And I feel like, I feel like I really wrestled with it in a way that wasn't just like, well, they're wrong. And I I'm right. Like I really wrestle with like, yeah, what? I mean, I also

know, like, as a, you know, coming from a like, like, God, again, like, I feel like this could be such a long conversation. I need to summarize, but like, I, the, the place where it was sort of, like, very deserved and I get it was that it's like Christian values in America are like, there's such a

sense of like, that's a dominant, like, um, load. And so people would be like, no, that's basically just like, stupid. that's stupid. And it's like, I understand why, especially like the, you know, whatever Christians, whatever that. Yeah, heavy air quotes. Yeah, heavy air quotes. I think this is an audio only podcast because we're not talking about actual Christian values if you're talking about like Christianity, whatever. We're talking about

like what was what was served up as the sort of, I don't want to get too spicy here. It's so hard not to get to. But it does like, it just, you, you just you're right and so that time and all the nuance that it lost during that time of just like where you're like whoa but like American history

and like world like just that like wow like so everybody was just stupid up till now you know like okay whoa but I didn't I really wrestle with it I feel like I I'm sure it's been so difficult

was a part of it but like yeah it was the time I was just like, whoa, like, there is so much more appreciation for nuance now, appreciation for like, I mean, to jump like to a different place, but like in the last year, reading the Bono's memoir and the Nick gave faith in carnage. Yeah. I mean, talk about books, ideas, and like the idea of those existing during that time. 15 years ago or whatever, 20. It's like the world would explode it.

Like, I can't even think about like how those would be received. Right, in that era. It is really funny because, like, I was thinking I was like, um, pitchfork, I didn't hear you say this about Sunny Day real estate. I mean, yeah. It's okay when Sunny D real estate doesn't. Yeah, there's so much to get into there. Yeah, I mean, we had friends in, like, even like Sufion Stevens celebrated.

like we're our friend you know we we had so many friends like our we were we were always really close with richard swift and he had he had come up in so much of that like um really like playing in and we never like we were in any type of like christian music world uh but we've got many friends that were and um and our my sense was always that it's like johnny cash and Leonard Cohen and blah, blah, blah, everybody, the biblical reference idea is so universal. That's what I'm saying. It's universal. It's timeless. These are archetypes. Like, it's insane to assign that, like, a religious agenda when it's literally just like the archetypal way that most Western people have talked about ideas in art for centuries. Like, it's so crazy. It really

blew me away. I mean, not like I was in the habit of reading pitchfork in 2006 or whatever, so I hadn't read it. But I was like, wow, okay. No, totally. It is really interesting. And how, how from a purely like critical, critical reading like standpoint and how if everything, you know, especially in music and how not like sort of like literal you're supposed to take everything, like you can do that reading to anything. Like you can do that reading to being like, okay, this jewel song, my hands are strong.

but they're not so clearly a reference to Christ. Who will save your soul? Who will save your soul? She literally has a song called Who Will Save Your Soul. Yeah, the idea of somehow removing, not religion, but religious language and like American language. Yeah, it just, it really blew my brain apart for a while.

And when I, if I really think about even like our second album, third album, how self-aware I was about that stuff. Like self-conscious, you mean? Yeah, like if anything in hindsight, I probably wish I didn't shy away from it and really leaned into it more. But I do think I was like, yeah, even our band guys and even the people around us, nobody was like, was like, fuck it, let's lean into it. You know, everyone was just like, I'm scared. Like, I don't want to be, I don't want to be the like, this sort of like indefenseable, like, yeah, we don't want to. be Christians. That's the dumbest thing

you could be. Yeah, it was very uncool in air quotes at that time, right? They were, I mean, they even named check Creed in that thing. As like a diss, you know? Yeah. Which, by the way, that fucking Creed album goes so fucking crazy. It goes so hard. I challenge

you guys to fucking, yeah, that album rips. I don't care. I don't care what anyone says. So, I mean, I love that you're, I do feel like in this funny way, like you, also came out of, because for a lot of, you know, based on your age, the most significant, like, you know, those whatever, early mid-20s and have such a strong impression on you,

most people, like, are going to identify with those years and that, you know, the mentality around it. I hardened by 16 and by that, my whole personality and taste was set by 16. And after that, I was, like, not interested in, like, what was, I was like, I was like, I spent, I always talk about it too. I missed, I missed so many bands. I lived in LA, so hang me up to dry was like inescapable. There was no way I couldn't know that song. I absolutely knew it.

So I knew about it. But like, I don't know about it. Like people will be like, have you heard this band? And I'll be like, I know the name. And they'll be like, that band is massive. And I'll be like, I was not listening to new music in that decade. I was listening to the Smiths and dipset. And I was like just not paying attention.

I think just instinctively I like turned away from it wasn't my thing. Yeah. I love that. And now you win. Because I mean, like, because I think like, I feel this very much, like, with friends that I like, or producers that I work with or just in every way, whether like it's because they're just younger and didn't have to wrestle with that time. Right. Or because they did live through it and also made it out the other side, like what you're, you're saying you're more like almost just weren't drawn to it. so you didn't sort of have to like get food.

I was kind of checked out. But for friends, for even like friends of mine and I was even like former bandmates and different like what we kind of went through is like, like I envy that. I wish we had just been like, that's fucking ridiculous. Who cares?

Let's just meet us and have fun. And whereas it was so self-serious and so like rigid that, um, I think that if you engaged with it, it really messed you up. And like, I know it did for me. I know it did for, you know, former band members and, you know,

friends and different people that were like, you know, I remember sharing songs or sharing lyrics with the guys at different times and feeling like, oh, my God, they're like, you know, we're looking at it through this, like, lens that's like, the spirit of it is just so lame and, like, academic and weird. But anyway, all that being said, I'm, it's not that way anymore. No, thank God. Yeah, thank God.

Like, it's, I feel like, And it's so everywhere the conversation of like, oh, 90s, you know, resurgence and all this stuff. But like, I do think that especially like younger people are just like, like you can't, you can't be that serious about stuff. And like you're talking about the Creed album in a way that is unironic and and you're like, you're celebrating it. And I like, I love that. Yeah, it's just, it's just different. And I'm like, I'm so glad it's different. I think it was impossible for it not to be.

I mean, this is like a more broad, like very broad take, but I just feel like, you know, you, you breed a generation of people who are like starved for any sort of meaning because it's been villainized to have any sort of spirituality or faith, right? And then that comes back in. Like people make fun of like new age stuff, right? Like woo, like sort of like, especially here in California. but like I think it's sick because that sort of backdoor brought spirituality back to young people in like a palatable way. And now we're like almost we're not there. And I still, I still have a theory. Okay. Hot take. I have a theory. And maybe I'm wrong because it seemed like it was happening and then stopped.

But I had a theory that like church was going to come back in a really big way because we're so fucking terminally online. And we have so little community in any of our lives. that like one place that community exists is church. And that's why those like cool churches were popping up all over. And I'm, I used the term church like so loosely. Like could be any faith of church or worship or whatever. But I mean, I guess it didn't really pop off the way I thought it was going to. But like some other form of that.

I just I just really feel it because there's like a real lack of community and also a real lack of like feeling connected to something. And I think like that always provided at the very least, for whatever bad came along with it with like dogma and, you know, the, we all know the bad implications and expressions of religion. Yeah. You're saying it perfectly well. Spirituality.

Because if you only look at all that stuff, like I watched the, oh my God, the, the, the Hill song. Oh, sure. Yeah. It's just like, it's so brutal. And you can, you know, look at it and just be like, oh, you know, it's so the culture that everything, you know, it's terribly not inclusive and shallow and all these things. But if you don't see an arena, if you look at an arena full of people crying and, you know,

and hugging each other and you don't see the loneliness and the need to be like seen together, you don't appreciate that, then you're an asshole. You know, you're just like, you're not seeing, you're not relating to regular people, you know? And like that divide is is really real for sure. I think we'll hopefully get to a place where like, I mean, I didn't grow up with religion, so I have a totally different take on it, obviously. But I think we'll get to a place where people can feel more comfortable, if they want to, divorcing ideas like faith and spirituality and God, air quotes, from religion if they want to,

just having their own version and interpretation, because it is really sad to just take that out of life because of a bad feeling towards religion, organized religion, you know? 24. Number 10. What characteristic are you most drawn to in other people? Authenticity.

I love that answer. That's a really good one. people that are, I mean, how silly is it to say, but how hard is it to be like, they are just themselves? You know, like that's like, and I feel like even that's a thing where I'm like, people, you know, during those formative years, it was like, I like people that are, check all these boxes of like, whether like clothes or bands or whatever. And that's like, there's something about people that like what they like are so much cooler than, people that are trying to like what other people like. It's just like, you know, duh, but...

Yeah, no, that's a great answer. Do you feel that you struggle to be authentic to yourself? Yeah, I do. I think that this, the theme of what we're talking about is this sort of like, because it's not an all or nothing thing. I think, like, you know, being authentic to yourself, like I do think our nature, my nature, If I was always true to myself, I don't think I'd be a really, like, a good person.

I think, like, my nature is probably drawn to being very selfish and very, like, you know, like, if we're on tour and we have a day off, I could very much, like, I could go and I could be alone in a hotel room and, like, be just totally content to live inside of, you know, my own little world and a lot of times to care about other people and to like get into their space, it does take a lot of work for me. So I know like I need to sort of not be true to myself in that way. In order to show up for other people. Yeah. In order to be a good person. Right. Right. Yeah, that's that's an interesting point. Like I wonder, I wonder if that is an expression of authenticity.

I mean, I don't think doing whatever you want is an expression of authenticity. I think an expression of authenticity is doing things because you ultimately, you personally see the value in them. So like whether you, of course, like, I don't want to go to the gym every morning. Do you know what I mean? Like, I mean, now I do, but at first I didn't. But I ultimately see the value in it for myself. And I guess like the flip side would be like, are you doing it?

I have to bring this up again because it blew my mind so much. I talked about it in an intro in one of these episodes. But I was listening to my fave pod, Huberman Lab. Shout out Dr. Andy Huberman. Andy Hubez, Andrew Huberman. He was interviewing Tim Ferriss and Tim Ferriss said something. I don't know what he was talking about, but he was like, I try to ask myself before I do anything if I couldn't tell anybody about this,

would I still do it? And like that really blew my mind. like, okay, am I going to the gym because I want to feel good or am I going in the gym so I can look better for other people? You know what I mean? Or like, am I like going to go to this thing because I really want to or so I can post it on Instagram? Do you know what I mean? Like it's sort of that like push pull. Whereas like you're showing up for your family or you're like band members because you know that that's valuable to you, even if, you know, yeah, you'd rather go sit alone. But the value of it is for yourself. It's not to show them that you're a good person,

right? Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, and I think that's still authentic, you know? Doing things you don't want to do can still definitely be authentic. Yeah. It's just why you're doing them. It's very interesting and kind of messy. Like I feel like I really like being around. I've surrounded myself with people that are really good at saying what they think about something like in the moment, have a great, like,

whether it's like just the darkest thought that popped in or just telling the truth about something that in a lot of ways this could be a, I do think it's actually a, kind of a Libra thing from what you would describe, but like, I don't really have that, like, knee-jerk, like super honest, take it or leave my opinion, like, personality. But I, like, I love people that do. Because they're, because they're so, they can't help but be authentic. And in that sense, like, I can, like, censor myself, you know, more. And in some ways, I'm like, too much. Like, I'm like, I wish I, wish I, I wish I could just, you know, not worry about what other people are going to think about this thought, but just say it and be like, who cares what they think?

It's a fine line, I think. Yeah, this is life. This is wisdom. This is what it means to, like, to live in the world. To be a human in the world, totally. Yeah. All right, number 11. Nathan Willett, who is the last person you met that you were star-struck by?

I know you'd be hobnobbing with celebs. Yeah. Starstruck. Damon Albarn. was that like years ago Coachella definitely like he was he couldn't have cared less about I think

gorillas were headlining and I kind of like interrupted and it was just did the total like dude so sorry but I just love you know and and he just kind of almost quiet like almost like maybe barely even responded with it but I I don't often have any expect

like there's no part of me that's just like oh my God I'm crushed because he doesn't want to talk to me I'm just like wow Damon Albarn doesn't give a shit chatting with me. Do you respond well when people do that to you? It really depends. Again, if there's any takeaway from this, like I'm a very, I could be, you know,

sometimes a little moody, a little unpredictable. I could be totally cold, I'm sure, in moments. And then honestly, totally is just like, how much rest have I had? How much, you know, am I over-stimulated by like being at a music festival. It's just insane. And I'm like, please don't. I can't give anymore. Totally. Also, like, yeah, it's like we just did these, like, in stores and we're like, yeah, you meet,

you do a meet and greet with, it's just like, there's a dude that, like, if this tiny thing came up to me and introduced this, it told me his whole life story was so sweet and sincere. And now he just got a divorce and this song means so much. It came to the next day. It was just like, hey, do you remember me? I was like, yes. and he was like, what's my name? And I was just like, dude, don't. Don't quiz me, bitch. That's, okay, you're going a little far.

You're going a little far. Of course. I was like, do you live here? You know, and he was like, no. You know, yesterday, like I live in, you know, I was like, I'm sorry, man. That's asking a lot, sir. No offense. I'm really glad that you're a fan, but like, come on.

Yeah, he was a super sweet guy. I feel that. Yeah, he was a super sweet guy. And it's just just like, man, you can't, I can't. But you're a massive blur fan. I have to take this opportunity to bring up the fact that you guys did not, you said no to going on tour with Oasis two times. I can't believe.

I'm really angry with you, actually. I read this on your Instagram, and I was so upset with you. Yeah, there's a lot of... We've been reliving this lately we had a different interview of Moss and are doing. Yeah, I think, you know, and I realized that the easiest way to sum this up is to say...

What was in your heart and mind? Well, the way that we were with the original four Cold War Kids dudes being that very like if anybody doesn't want to do something we won't do it. Democratic. You know, like everyone is when you tell the power it's democratic.

The only, you know, takeaway is just like, oh, that never works. Which bitch said no to going to go into the Oasis? What the fuck? You should have kicked them out of the band right then. Was it Moused? It couldn't have been Mous. Mouss loves Oasis. Listen, yeah, if you're in the

man now, then you would have done it. But if this does harken back, to, I love how you said it, the 2003, 2010 mentality of like, everything, like, nothing was cool in that. Like, nothing, everything was just like, oh, what are they doing right now? Oh, they're not that cool right now in this moment. You know, it's just like, oh my God. But that's, that, that thinking, I do think, which is why when I think about my whole life and our band, like, I'm so glad.

It was like a miracle that we made it out of that thinking. you know, that type of like, nothing's cool enough thinking. We also had a a record was on, our label was downtown. Most Deaf had a record on downtown. He just sort of out of nowhere sent our label guy.

He did a feature on the song, St. John, and our label guy sent it to us. I was like, check it out. Again, not Mast and I, but other previous fan members were like, I'm not naming any names, but you go look on Wikipedia. cool right now. Most of it is cool all the time eternally. This person, I need to have a chat with them. Most of us cool all the time, but it was like,

it's not like if in this one year. I know we can't digress very much anymore, but I have to make a point that it makes a lot of sense, actually, because the 2000s is when the internet really started, right? But it was not, hadn't been long enough that everyone was nostalgia-pilled, which took like 10 or 15 years. And so, yeah, now,

whatever, like, you were cool once you're cool for, like, especially in the 90s or whatever, but it hadn't been long enough yet for the long arc of the internet to like make that happen for people. So it totally makes sense. It was the like the scorched earth. Everything is new. Like we, we grew up with Tom Petty.

We can't love Tom Petty. We have to love our own brand new thing. So you're right. It's like it's very internet like, which we also benefited from a lot. Like, that's a thing, too. So I don't... Did we?

I... Colder kids did. Cooler kids. Okay. Right. Because people were like, oh, cold work is. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. That's a good answer. I'm still mad. Oh, I'm so mad. I'll never get over it. That's a thing. You're like, if you're reuniting, babe, we're still here.

We'll say yes. We'll take it back. Number 12. Nathan Willett. When was the last time you slid into anyone's DMs? Obviously, non-sexual as you were a happily married man. with three beautiful daughters. Yeah.

I, yeah, musicians, I was to slide into DMs. Does sliding into DMs mean that, like, you just, you have no previous, like? Yes. Okay, like, yeah, that's how I like to define it. Like, you use that blue check

to just be like, what's up? Okay, okay, okay. Like, I've thrown my, like, I don't know, like, I'm trying to think of somebody. Like, I probably... Like, I probably... Ah, shh. I'm sure, like, years ago,

I was, like, Lonadale already, Could we ever do it? You know, and then you just feel like, oh, did she answer? No, it's just really like an ocean, like, you know, a grain stand in the ocean. Do you respond to DMs that you get? Have you gotten a cool one?

I mean, I know, like from another artist type of thing. Yeah, from anyone, from someone that you were, it was worthy of you responding because you were like, okay, I know who this person is. Um, I can't even really think of one right now. Okay, so it's okay. Sometimes, sometimes there's not a good answer for a thing. I don't have a blue check,

Ben, that is honestly preferable, and I think cooler. Absolutely. I mean, I'm just going to say that right now to make myself a matter. Number 13, what is the horniest song ever

in your personal opinion? Can just be one of the horniest songs ever, as it's kind of hard to figure out a super lit. Moss always puts on a playlist, I feel like when we're in a good post show, rock and fun, drinking, laughing environment. Like,

the Leonard Cohen song, don't go home with your heart on is so good and just so gross so horny he was one of the one of the horniest men alive that ever lived

really if you think about it I never know where it's like is that tame in comparison to the modern to the modern world but like it's it's just so literal yeah I think in the 70s that was probably a big a big deal yeah all right number 14

What is the biggest money you guys have ever turned down? I mean, is it the Oasis tour? I don't know. Was that a lot of money or was that just like a good opportunity? Yeah, I guess it might not be... Often support act for a big band. I mean, I'm not in the biz, but I'm thinking more that was like Bank of America commercial or something.

Oh my God, yeah, okay. Well, definitely, yeah, there was like... I remember it was another like very funny sign of the times where it was like, we were still coming off of some of that, like, oh, you know, I remember for the first record, the song we used to vacation and a shampoo, some like shampoo company wanted to use it for a commercial. And I remember like the conversation in the band was just like, oh, no, it'll forever be like all people will ever think of as this commercial, you know, and of course it's like, no, that,

like, no one will think of that. I mean, maybe somebody would be, people would think of the commercial, but it travels. Like, there is a limit. Oh, my God. the most part, like, make it travel and don't worry about it being forever tied to this shampoo commercial. Was it Garnier-Fructise?

And did they then go to the transplants? I really hope that's the story. It might have been, honestly. Oh my God, and I remember that. Yeah. Because that... I think it's the same time frame. I think the Transplants album came out the same year. Your guys' first album came out. And it was also

like the... Oh, my God. Kind of weirdly similar... No, no, no, no, no. Yeah. That's a good song. You guys, we did some real journalism here that the Garnier-Fructiz commercial could have been the Cold War Kids song, but instead of... And this now takes us back to moments in your life where everything could have been different. Right.

Yeah, no, we said no to that. And I just was always, oh, God, another just like, yeah, shooting, you know, trying to... That sort of, like, weird, like, trying to play by that, like, moral purity of, like... Sure, we're not going to sell out. It was punk enough for Tim Armstrong. I mean, that's All right. Number 15, what's the best live show

you've ever seen? Easily, easy, easy answer is Fugazi, just the palace in L.A. and whatever, that would have been like 2000, 2000, maybe 99 or something like that. Yeah.

Just instant. Yeah, it's so easy. Have you seen the new documentary? I haven't seen it. New documentary? There's a new Fugazi documentary. They're not in classic Fugazi fashion. They're not, it's like not streamable anywhere.

And they just basically, like, if you want to show it at the theater in your town, you can like organize with them to show it at the theater in your town. So I think it played at Brain Dead one night. But anyways, it does exist. What's the idea? What is? I'm not really sure. I haven't like super looked into it, but it is a Fugazi documentary that is endorsed by the band.

made by the band. Yeah, I'm sorry. I don't have a lot of information. Okay. But, you know, maybe it'll pop up while you're on tour in a town near you. And, like, you can't stream it. No. Oh, my God.

That's so great. Yeah, I felt really guilty because when I did the Fugazi episode, the other Fugazi documentary, the old one, I did pay for it on Amazon. And I was like, Ian McKay would not appreciate what I'm doing here. But I need to watch it to do my job. So, all right, number 16. When in your life were like one individual time, were you the most fucked up wasted hammered trashed? It's easy answer is we played a show.

There's a festival in L.A. Like a sunset. It was in Silver Lake, but it was like on this. It doesn't exist anymore. I don't think it's called sunset something. And we played this show. And then the next show we had this show. We were opening for Beck in Bend, Oregon.

and I was so trash at night and I had a bunch of like kids like former students like a bunch of these group of kids that were like students that I had Torrance kids who were like my people you made it. It was like a total just like such a fun crazy

all like very wasted night and we flew to Bend Oregon in a tiny airport and I got onto that plane and I stayed in the bathroom barfing the whole plane which is so just like illegal. You cannot

land a plane with someone in the bathroom but I was just like I can't. I'm not getting out of here. Sorry. And I walked off of like you know the stairs like a small like a Burbank type style tiny airport walked down the stairs onto the tarmac and I just like I just laid down and I couldn't get up and our

tour manager Gabe this was like one of it he's been with us since then and that was like maybe the first year that for us, which is why we still talk about it, but he, like, he picked me up. And I, but it was one of those things where I was like, man, there's no way. I can't, I can't believe we're going to play a show tonight, but solution I was given to it. I think I really, I chugged, I think this is probably the first time I ever had, uh, apple cider vinegar was, like, and I don't even know if this is a good solution at all, but for whatever

reason that I, I drank a lot of that. And then suddenly it was like, okay, we got to watch. walk on stage and play the show and it somehow worked out. But that was a sad experience in Bend, Oregon. I just had like a phantom hangover. Do you know what I mean? I felt it. Just telling that story.

I just felt it. And then I was like, well, I could go away. Okay, number 17 and 18 are tandem questions. What do you love the most about being famous and what do you hate the most about being famous? Obviously, given your relative level of fame that I'm aware of.

Great. Okay. You don't have to qualify your level of fame. Okay. So I guess, honestly, like obviously not having a boss. Hell yeah. No disrespect to Sean Fantasy, who I love. Yes, okay.

I mean, and I would argue, you know, on some level, everybody, you know, even me, like, you know, my boss is not a literal person who I'm having to check in with, but I, I'm working for a million people. Right. But, yeah, I really, I enjoy the freedom of getting to spend my time. now I want to is like the most precious thing on earth. But it also comes with a degree of just like, I do the friends that have jobs where they check in, clock in and clock out and have the satisfaction of going to do whatever they want and not having a sense of like that sort of

existential, like am I doing all that I can to make the best art that I can? Like not wrestling with that is a really wonderful thing. have like a sincere like simple satisfaction in life that like I do think the artist temperament like doesn't get to tap into as much which is a very like low as me um type of uh way of thinking but um nonetheless it's the Libra in you it's the can't it's a dog in you um that makes sense okay what do you and so what you hate most about it is the freedom I guess that's the the I the sort of just like that's the double edge yeah I got it.

Because it's like, you can do whatever you want. Well, what do you want? I don't know. Right. You know, just, I don't know what I want today. Like, you know, you just have to go. Like, go do stuff. Like, should I go, like, go work with this producer today on a song that I'm not sure

if it's good and I don't even know if I, it's like, yeah, you got to do it. You know what I mean? Like, you know, I don't want to in this moment. But I, most of the time that I go into the studio that I'm not sure if I want to and half the time that I leave and like, oh my God, that song would not exist. just had I not gone in that day, you know, it's kind of like, just got to do it. Yeah. I get it. When I was at my most, like, most, most mentally ill-anxious person vibes, I used to, like, dream of, first I would dream about having one of those jobs or you know what to do all the time,

like a doctor, do you know what I mean? Like, you just, like, there's like only, like, you know, this is a very, and then I started to, like, further dream that I had like a earpiece in which a select. last jail voice would always tell me exactly what to do. Yeah. Like, I was like really down bad. I was like, I don't want to make one single decision ever again in my life. I've come very far from that. Now I don't want anyone to tell me what you do ever.

So you live and you learn. All right, 19. 19 is the wild card. What is your favorite David Matthews band song? Do you know that I don't even, I couldn't even name one outside of Crash. That's the only one I could name the actual title of. You only know Crash into me? No, that's not right.

That can't be right. No response. I think too, oh, I think too much. Too much, too much. Too much. The song's called Too Much. Yeah, that's right. I can remember that. Do you know that that song won Grammy for Rock Song of the Year over Oasis's Wonderwall?

Whoa. That's incredible. I know. Probably criminal, but like. I would, I think David Matthews himself would probably say that. Wonderwall. I mean, you can't get more like. Yeah, I think he might also agree.

This is just part of my ongoing effort to mention David Matthews in every episode of this podcast. So thank you for playing along, even though I'm going to need you to spend some more time with the catalog. There's some really good stuff in there. All right. Number 20. When was the last time you cried? I cried a couple days ago, actually. Yeah.

A very sad story that I'll glaze over is we had a guy. This guy's name is Ryan Murgatroyd. He was our sound guy, and he died on this tour that we had with tears for fears. Oh, my God. He overdosed, and we were shocked and surprised, and it was the worst thing ever, and it was the craziest thing because it was, we were at Madison Square Garden, and we were with him all day, and he died that night, and it's still relatively fresh. It was like the craziest mix of another, it was like one of the first.

first couple nights of that tour and we had another like five or six weeks a tour and we were just like yeah what else we're gonna do like let's just keep going you know so um very in in a weird way you know so it's um that will that is something i'll carry with me forever and i love that man um and we but just the other night like i i i suddenly you know it's just like oh my god ryan is dead you know and so not obviously that's you know i don't know why and apologize for getting too heavy about it. But yeah, I was just totally... I was just like, holy shit.

But how do I cut... That's it. We'll go to number 21. I'm very sorry. That's a super heavy thing to deal with while... It is. In general, of course, but like, very shocking while you're in the middle of the tour and stuff.

Yeah. All right. Number 21. What is your greatest regret? I mean, I guess, you know, the theme of this, we've touched on a lot of things we said, no to in the past. I mean, if I'm going to be just really

the transparent, it was like, we had like little runs of show, like a lot of opening opportunities that we, again, in the sort of like, we're trying to, we're trying to like run our band in this like meticulous, like too perfect way. Be perfect. That we said no to Neil Young shows.

We said no to Tom Pache. You said no voices. We said no to Coldplay. We did all this stuff because we were just like, We thought somehow that we would be painted with a brush that, like, it's inconceivable now. It just was like we, but in a weird way, I, you know, because we're talking about it right now, and I haven't thought about it a lot of time, but I think in a weird way, it's like connected to that original pitchfork review.

I think we were scared to be like, stick our necks out and be potentially what we might have thought was somehow uncool or something. I don't know. It's very actually embarrassing to even really reflect on. Well, I mean, if you go back to the original, it works both ways, right? Like, if you didn't want to go to the college, but you went and everything worked out as it was supposed to, maybe saying no to those things also part of the plan and you just can't know what the decision is. Yeah, I mean, yeah, to be like a little potentially like kind of cheesy. Like that is kind of like, that's what faith is.

Like, I couldn't. If I really sat back and reflected too much on any of these things, like, yeah, I couldn't even, like, get out of bed. You know, at a certain point, you're just like, you know, every day is just, you know, one foot in front of the other. As my grandfather used to say, don't look back, you'll fall down. There you go. Solid enough. Yeah. Number 22.

What song would you like to hear just before you die? You know, it's a good one is, um, the, uh, Bob Dylan on the, um, um, the, uh, Bob Dylan on the rough and rowdy ways. It's, what's the song? It's about, what's the Jimmy Buffett town in Florida? Margaritaville. That's, no. I keep singing Florida Keys, but what's, I just have to look it up.

I have to look up there. You know, like, I just, I love a good, like, nine-plus minute Bob Dylan's song, and this is just like such a slow burn. Key West. I was singing Florida Keys the whole time. Key West, parentheses, Philosopher. pirate. I think that's what you want to hear. Um, yeah, I do. That's what I want to hear. Okay. I love that. Just, just because you want a lot of time before you die or, I think it's like super self,

you know, super just like reflective and romantic and, and just like, you know, death is not, you know, it's never over. What's the start? What's the end? I mean, it's called philosopher pirate, you know, I mean. Yeah, that's true. That's a good one to go out on as you're shepherded into the next realm. Yeah. Okay, number 23, what do you think about me? Oh, my God. Yeah, we've got to hang out. Yes, that's the right answer.

I want to be your, I want to be your friend is the right answer. Yeah, I want to be your friend. That's the answer. You put the words in the mouth, yeah. Yeah, I'm down to clown. Yeah. And by clown, I mean, do anything that ends by like 7 to 7.30 p.m. Because I have an extensive nighttime ritual, which results in me being in bed,

asleep at 9.30 p.m. So. Cremes? Toners? Is it like a face care? Is it all kinds of things? It's all kinds of thing. There's face care. There's reading. There's meditation. Also, I wake up at, well, now that the time change, God bless, my favorite.

I wake up at 5.30 now. So I don't like to, that's why going to show. Is it hard for me when they're like, do you want to come to the show? And I'm like, I do in my heart, but like, my frail body will not be able to withstand being awake that long. It's going to ruin the next day at least. Yeah.

No, the next day is a wash. It's a wash. Great. I want to be your friend too. Wonderful. Shake hands. Number 24, Nathan Willett. What would you like to plug?

Cold War Kids, self-titled. Out now. Great record. Super proud of it. Really, really, really, really really. It's really good. It's really good. Seriously.

So, so pun. We took a long time making it. I'm really proud of it. I feel like it's just, you know, there's a lot of the old stuff that I'm never going to listen back to. And for this, right now, I'm just like, God, I love. Like, I enjoy listening to this. I feel like it's just strong. And I feel the spirit in it is like, it's just a good, a good record.

So that's it. That's amazing way to feel. Check it out, you guys, streaming everywhere now. Nathan Willett, thank you for coming on the program. It was a delight and a pleasure. Thank you, awesome. It's your pleasure. Come back next week for a new episode of 24-question party people.

Thanks for listening to 24-question party people, and thanks to my guest, Nathan Willett. The new self-titled Cold War Kids record is out everywhere. They'll be on tour starting in January, so please check out Cold Warkids.com for dates and tickets. This episode was produced by Chris Sutton and Jesse Miller-Borton, with help from Justin Sales. Our gorgeous theme song was composed by Heather.

their fortune. Special thanks to Sean Fennessee, Rob Harvilla, and my rewatch of the television program house. Come back every Tuesday for a new episode of 24-question party people on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. 24-question party people.