Bandsplain - 24 Question Party People: Slug of Atmosphere

Episode Date: September 19, 2023

If you were given $5 to go away in 2007, that would be worth $7.40 in today’s economy. Fortunately, Yasi’s fee has gone up in the years in between, and she reunites with Slug this week to discuss this inciting incident, as well as child-rearing and break dancing. It’s another perfectly normal week on '24 Question Party People.' Host: Yasi SalekGuest: SlugProducer: Jesse Miller-GordonAssociate Producer: Chris SuttonAdditional Production Supervision: Justin SaylesTheme Song: Hether Fortune Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Erica Ramirez, founder of Ili, and hosts of What About Your Friends? A podcast dedicated to the many lives of friendship and how it's portrayed in pop culture. Every Wednesday on the ringer dish feed, I talk to my best friend Stephen Othello and your favorites from within the ringer and beyond about friendships on TV and movies, pop culture, and our real lives. So join me every Wednesday on the ringer dish feed where we try to answer the question TLCS back in the day. What about your friends? 24 question party people. 24 question party people.

Hello and welcome to 24 question party people. I am your host, Yossi Salick. This is a show where I invite an interesting person on for a little talk. I ask the same 23 questions every time, more or less, plus one wildcard. The guest is allowed to skip one question. Sometimes the questions change a little. I have nothing further to say about that. You guys, today's interview, the guest and the interview, in conjunction with the Bachelorette,

weekend that I just attended this past weekend in the desert really got me thinking. You guys are like, this bitch, always be thinking. Can she think I take a break? No, babe. Synapses firing. Got me thinking about all the people that you have been and you will be in your life. More specifically all the people I have been and will be in my life. For example, when we were 20, the bride to be and I would definitely pregame at home. Remember we calling it pregame? gaming with only the finest pop-off vodka, just multiple shots, like an insane, kill-a-horse amount of shots until we would hit the streets and our Frankie Bs and our juicy couture zip-ups or whatever just to like make a slew of terrible decisions, right?

And on Saturday, me, I went to the fridge to pull out the glass container of raw milk that I did bring with me to the Airbnb in the desert. so that I could pour it into a wine glass and cheers with everybody and drink out of a penis straw. I also really annoyed the fuck out of everyone. I must tell you with my constant demonization of like oat milk and stuff. And you know what? I do apologize for that ladies. I'm sorry.

I am a work in progress. Anyway, this also applies not just to my raw milk journey, but to when I first started writing about music and how it both definitely. definitely didn't start out in a way that clearly led me to where I am now, because I get asked that a lot. Like, how did you get here? I'm like, I don't fucking know. And also how it didn't pan out the way I thought I wanted it to. Like, I definitely thought I wanted to be a music journalist, right? I was like, yes, I'm going to fucking sit there over the typewriter, you know, tap out into the wee hours of the night, my brilliant thoughts about albums and artists. Or maybe I thought I wanted to be

like Lester Bings or something, or like one of those. melody maker writers who spends like four paragraphs talking about their own life and problems where they even like get into the review of the Nick Cave Show or whatever. Instead, what I ended up doing was writing for a graffiti lifestyle magazine. And mostly I wrote about underground hip hop. Some of my heads out there will remember the world, the storied world of early 2000s backpack rap and adjacent music. That was just what I happened to be super into at that time. And for whatever reason, I ended up writing about it more than anything else. So I would review those records. Poorly, I've never been a good critic. I did those kinds of interviews, which that part was fun. I always did

some rock stuff, guitar rock music has lived in my heart since I was a wee child and we'll never leave. Like, I actually have a very hazy memory of interviewing my morning jacket at like 21 years old, who allowed that. But by and large, for the most part, it was all deaf jucks and living legends and, of course, rhyme sayers all the time, stones throw a bit. And then after a few years of pretty much failing at this job, failing to land anywhere in magazines, failing to make a career out of it, I did transition into streetwear, which is a phrase I wish I never had to say out loud, but here we are embracing crin. but for you, et cetera. But you know what? All those selves, right? College girl in the thrift store clothes

going to like punk and hardcore shows at Steve Aoki's house. I think it's called the pickle batch. And the music writer girl interviewing rappers, like showing up in an Inditas jacket and like inexplicably a sweatband on my head as like an accessory.

I thought that was cool. And then the girl who like pretty much only wore one hoodie for like nine full months a year. And you know what? It wasn't Nome to Gare, okay, babe. And it was fucking cool, but still a little bit of overkill on the hoodie. These were all part of like the animorphs situation, if you will, that led me here, a place where I'm currently hunched over the podcast mic wearing a military gun t-shirt. And you know what? Exuding joy, babe. Exuding joy. Because I'm happy here. There were a few other versions, of course, before we got here. There was Los Angeles Ladies' Choir. long boho dress yossi there was resident dj in tokyo yossi there was of course paris fashion week live streamer yossi and a couple more but we don't have time to get into all that right now

oscar wild said that's right bitch oscar wild said that if you know exactly what you want to be in life you will become it and that is your punishment and now like with the benefit you know of hindsight site and also all that joy that is exuding from me that I previously mentioned, I can really see how not really knowing what you want to be in life or maybe even further thinking you know, which is like, L.O.L. You thought bitch, et cetera, is not just fine, but it's like better than fine. It's awesome because then there's all this wild possibility and you can keep following threads that light up those dark parts of your brain for your whole life. You get to keep being different selves and following different paths.

That's so fucking cool. I did. I have been doing a lot of mushrooms. Anyways, all that to say, made me think I probably have a few selves left up my sleeve. You know what I mean? I'm not dead yet, bitch.

I'm only 41. And I really hope one of them gets like super into opera or something, you know what I mean? Or like makes really good friends with a murder of crows that then like follow me around the neighborhood and, you know, bring me gifts or whatever. All this being said, it was really fucking cool to get to talk to someone who was like a big character, like a big player in my mind and my life when I was 21 years old. Two full decades later, here is my conversation with Slug from Atmosphere.

Good morning. Welcome to the program, Mr. Slug. Would you prefer to be called Mr. Slug or Sean? Daily, Sean Daily. That's whatever you feel more comfortable saying with your mouth is fine. I'm really feeling Mr. Slug. It has such a nice mouth feel. Do you know what I mean? Super into it.

Yep. I'm into it. That's what my mom calls me. So it's easy. Mr. Slug. Before we get started here, and I know you just came here because your public is, it was like, okay, at 10 a.m. you need her or whatever, 12 p.m. Central time you need to come and do this thing.

And you're like, yes, okay. But two things. One is very embarrassing for me personally. When I was in college, I took a creative writing course. You know, you're trying to find yourself, figure out what you're going to do. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. What's up with the qualifiers? Just tell the story.

Thank you. Okay. You're right. You're right. And I wrote under a pen name. And the pen name was Lucy Ford. You didn't let me guess. I was going.

I think you could have, I think we all could have guessed where this story was going. It's actually three things. Number two is this photo. Is that you and Aesop Rock? That's, oh, I do have a me on Asop Rock. Hop Rock if you'd like. Oh, wait, that's Danger Mouse. That's Danger Mouse.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And here's me in Aesop Rock. But I can notice my T-Shop-Wrake. Wait, wait, wait. Can you look at my T-shirt, though? It's a rhyme. This is an audio-only podcast. You guys, I'm sorry, I'll post these.

But I need you to understand what I'm showing Mr. Slug is a 21-year-old Yossi, wearing a Rhymesayer's T-shirt and for no explicable reason, a sweatband. Yeah. Okay, so first, the part that just suddenly just got glossed over there was that I didn't have my glasses on yet. So I saw the picture of you in Danger Mouse and was like, wait, is that Aesop Rock? And of course, no, it's not Aesop Rock. Now I can see that's Danger Mouse, right?

But then you're like, hold up though, hold up though. I got this picture of me and Aesop Rock. What else you want? You want me in MF Doom? Here's me on M.F. Doom. Here's me and DJ Jazzy Jeff. We used to be a proper society is what I'm saying. Wait, though, wait, but me and you have never taken a photo?

No, okay. Well, amazing. Because meeting me is hella easy. Oh, babe, I met you, and we're going to go into part three. And I'm going to tell you what happened, what transpired. Oh, God. You gave me $5 to go away. All right.

I got to say, it could have been worse. I was like, uh-oh. What is this story about to, how is this going to unfold? And it's like, I gave you $5 to go away. And for 20 years, I've been waiting for this moment to talk to you about this so we could have some closure in our relationship. Well, from your perspective, can you tell me why you think I asked you to go away? Sure. I mean, with years of therapy and the benefit of time, you know, that gives you wisdom,

number one, I can be a little annoying. I feel like I would remember that. And so, okay, but I believe you. It was in Santa Barbara, California. I want to place us around 2002 or three. I can't remember. Is this actually going to be part of the audio? Or are we going to edit this out?

No, no, this will be part of the audio. Nice. Well, then I will shut up right now. I feel like we've healed that, though. Don't we feel? You, maybe. Do you still feel perhaps a weight on your chest about it? I'll wait.

I don't know if that's the descriptor that I would use. I would say, I mean, initially I feel embarrassed. for starters because you're obviously younger than me. And so to be like, yo, here's five bucks. You know, that, I mean, that's, that's. I'm not that much younger than you. I probably at the time you were in your 20s and I was 21 or something. Well, then you, you obviously take better care of yourself than I do.

So we'll just word it like that. Yeah. So with that said, I, I, so either way, either way, how on a scale of 1 to 10, how dismissive was I? Like, was that funny about it? Was there a comical side? There was a comedic angle to it for sure. I think it was lighthearted. Well, that's a little less embarrassing.

All right, well. I'll let you think about it. You can get back to me. Did you go away or did you end up hanging out? No, I went away. I don't need to be where I'm not wanted. I took my crisp fiber babe and I was off, off I went. I think the best part is that it was a crisp fiber, which indicates like where we were in our trajectory at the time.

I know. At this point, you'd have to give me $100 to go away minimum. 15. Would be all I could afford to offer is I guess what I'm trying to say. I don't know your value. You're probably way more valuable than $15. Of course. My absence is absolutely worth more than $15. Yeah.

And so with that said, you know, I guess, yeah, 100. I accept that end. answer. We can't wait to tell our mutual friend Dan Monick about this exchange. She's going to absolutely love it. He's going to live for this. Dan's a good one, yeah. Dan's the best. Well, Mr. Slug, welcome to the show. Of course, for those of you who don't know, but I'm sure you know Mr. Slug has the rap group atmosphere. That was a weird one. You were like, for those that don't know, there are way more people who listen to you that don't know then listen to you.

Oh, I'll take a stab and say, yeah, we do. Like, you know, what is your show? You know what I'm saying? Like, I've seen your past interviews, and they're all way more famous than us. I wouldn't say all. Liz Fair? She's more famous than you.

Yeah, that's true. Jason, I'm going to mispronounce his last name, Ms. Bell. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's more famous than most people. That's probably that he's the most famous person we've had on here. Right. And so. It's not a competition.

Why, the tables have turned. How much would I have to pay you to make me go away? Can I give you $5? I asked you on this program. Did you not hear my thing about the Lucy Ford pen name? Did I not show you the T-Shed me and the Rhymesayers T-shirt? I'm an old head. I think I have the vinyl around here somewhere.

Which one of the Lucy Ford vinyl? Yeah. I think I have all of it, like all up to a certain point. This is not, we're not actually on camera, so the label of my wife. doesn't matter, right? Yeah, it doesn't matter. We're not. Good.

We don't have to listen. No plugs. So this year, you guys put out a new album, May 5th, 2021, so many other realities exist simultaneously. And also, the beautiful sad clown bad dub, too, finally available on streaming. Huge for the heads. You think? I feel like I've damaged yourself esteem with the story from the beginning.

And now we've created a weird vibe. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. I showed up damaged product. We're okay. We're okay. No, I'm actually saying, you know, here's the thing about that particular reissue. And I don't know what kind of weeds we're trying to get into with this conversation, but I'm going to go there.

I think the people who really appreciated that are the ones who knew about something that was, like, kind of a secret. And, you know, so even having it available in places like, you know, because people would upload the songs to YouTube and stuff like that, just the audio. And even that was still kind of like, it still gave the space for it to just get discovered. And so now pushing it out to like the streaming platforms

and the releasing it on re-releasing it vinyl with the campaign and all that. It's like, does it take a little bit away from the, I don't want to say special, but like the relationship that people had with that record, even the relationship I had with that. You know what I mean? It's like it got to be this kind of like,

it was there. You could find it if you, wanted to find it. And I feel like now it's like we're, you know, hey, buy this. Ah, you know what I'm saying? And so, so part of me is a little like, ah, because the way you worded it, you know, I just wonder, is that,

is that the feeling or is it, you know, I know the comments that have popped up, if for the most part seemed like super positive and people being like, you know, thank you, blah, blah, blah. But it's like, but negative commenting, uh, is, you know, is no longer as big of a deal anymore. You don't show up to somebody's platform to leave negative comments, you know, especially, I mean, I don't know. You should talk to my reply, guys.

I'm not going to show up in your comments to be like, ah, that sucked. You know what I'm saying? I don't know. Or maybe it's just because the only comments I really see are Instagram where everybody is like nice and like, look at my mocha. You know what I mean? It's like, you know, maybe on Twitter there's more backlash from people who are like, yo, this was, this is for the real fans.

You know what I'm saying? It's been two decades. Like if they, if, like, it's been, they've had their special time with this project. Like, now maybe we can just make it more widely available for easier discovery. You sound like the label. I get it. And I guess I'm saying. It's kind of an old school Gen X mentality.

I get what you're saying where it's like. You nailed it when you said it's been two decades though. And I can't argue with that and with the logic. But for me, it hasn't been two decades. For me, it's been this flash. Right. And so because of my proximity to all of it. And so for me, it could be last week.

It could be two decades. It doesn't matter because it's all part of the same mess. You know what I'm saying? And so for me it's just because I guess, you know, if somebody that I work with was like, well, think about, you know, how do you feel about Prince reissues or things of, you know, and then I'm like, oh, yeah, of course I want that shit. You know what I'm saying? But, but so again.

It's different when it's your own thing. I think me personally if you asked me I think it's a good thing I think of course there's like a there's a fan thing that you always want to feel you want to feel unique so you want to feel like only I know about this but that's sort of a thing that you can heal within yourself and just know that like what you like is great and other people can like it too and that doesn't take away from your uniqueness I get it so I still see the audience through a lens of, and this is good because this actually shows up here and there, so this makes sense. I see the audience through a lens of them being younger. It's younger. I catch myself once in a

while, you know, actually talking to myself like, what is that, man? Those kids aren't going to like that. And it's like, those kids, who am I talking? I mean, it's like the audience is like a bunch of 35-year-old dudes with beards, you know what I'm saying? So it's just like, probably crash. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I, yeah, I get. I get it. I get it. I get it. And I'm not dissing 35-year-olds with beards. Make it clear. Facial hairs. They put money in my pocket, babe. That's my whole bread and butter. Gen X and millennial men with beards listened to my programs. Facial hair is hot. I've tried to cut this thing off and like the next morning it's there again. So I know there's some sort of weird. Do we call that a soul patch or does I have a different name? My kid calls it a beard, but he's five. A flavor saver. Whatever you want to call it. You know what I'm saying?

You know, but I'm keeping mine for as long as Tom Waits as his. That's been my rule since I was nine. You had a soul patch when you were nine? I mean, I grew it out. You know. Hurst dude. It's a manly nine-year-old. Okay, Mr. Slug, we should get started on the actual 24 questions.

We've had a really beautiful intro, but it's time to really start the party. Are you ready? Yes. Okay. Question number one. What's your sign? Virgo. I knew that. Let me ask you two things. I feel that I have a sense that you have at least an interest or a background in astrology because you have mentioned it in song.

Here we go. Aquarius Pisces player Meta Virgin, Meta Bergen, Mchen, et cetera. So I'm not talking to a totally uninitiated person, but do you feel that you relate to the qualities that are associated with your sign like Virgo men are perfect? They're hardworking, they're patient, they're trustworthy, they're overthinkers. They can be stubborn. Everything you said there sounds like a compliment. So I relate to all of that. You find overthinking to be a compliment. If you make it work for you. Yeah, my overthinking, you know, has been probably a good part of my career decision making. And so with that said, I can't, I'm not going to knock the hustle. I, you know, now with that said, if I would have underthought, would I even be further in my career? Maybe, I don't know.

But I do know that overthinking has always been a genuine part of my decision-making when it comes to a lot of this. I guess, you know, when you ask, like, do you relate to the qualities of your astrological sign? It's weird. I think it would be weird for anybody to say no to that. I feel like they are all of these, like, kind of generalization qualities that. I feel like if you read Aquarius as qualities, there's probably a part of me that I'd be like, yeah.

I don't relate to Virgo qualities. Are you a Virgo? No, I'm a Torres. I'm not patient. I'm honestly not that hardworking. I'm very into astrology, though, so I'm the wrong person to talk about. I also feel like, really, if you're going to ask people, it should be their rising sign, but most people don't know their rising sign. You've patiently waited to call me out on the $5 thing for 20 years.

And so there's that. And then there's also you obviously. are hardworking in a number of ways. I work smart, not hard. Maybe you stand too close to it to see it. That's true. Maybe what you're calling working smart not hard is actually just working hard. Because there are hell of people who haven't gotten to where you've gotten.

You feel me? I'm also the first daughter of immigrants. So obviously I work harder than most people. And for me, that's just the baseline. So I do think you probably relate to Virgo qualities. But you don't want to because you're not of Virgo. and because all of these things. I'm not a, I don't not believe astrology,

but I also don't know anything about it. Me, I obviously know some of the Virgo generalizations because I'm a Virgo and I've been one for 50-some years, you know. I spoke about astrology because that was part of the dialogue, that was part of the language, that was part of the, that was something that I found myself in conversations about, regardless of my limited knowledge of it, it was always present.

So it was part of the type of language I spoke, you know? But I never did the diligence of understanding it or reading about it. Or, you know, I've probably read my horoscope five times in my life. You know what I mean? Virgo and Capricorn are the two most likely signs to not believe in astrology. It's true because they're the most practical and sort of... That makes it real then, because that's the, That's the one thing that pegs me.

Yeah. My dad is also a Virgo, same. He's like, I don't know what you're talking about, bitch. He doesn't say those exact words, but that's what he's thinking. Okay, let's go to number, the second question, number two. What did you eat today, Mr. Slug? Oatmeal and blueberries and almonds. Okay, so we're on a bit of on our health food game.

I mean, I'm not like a total mess. I'm just a standard mess. Do you lift, bro? I do strength training. How's our protein intake? Because like I'm liking this for breakfast, but I'm feeling it's lacking in a bit of protein. You should see how many almonds I put in it. It's texture, you know?

Sure. But no, I'm not lacking in protein either. Are we taking protein shake? Are we having any supplementation? We don't need to do supplementation because my other meals have solid protein. They're protein based. Okay. All right.

Number three. Did you listen to music today? So what was it? I have not heard music today. Wow. Full silence all day? No, absolutely not. Podcasts?

I play news in the car, usually, or do phoners. I talk on the phone. I actually try to do most of my press from my car. I like having my peripheral vision stimulated. It helps me think. It helps me to, like, weirdly enough, it helps me focus. No, it makes sense. I go on walks for that. It really helps me. Exactly. I love walks too, but then if I do press on a walk, I look like a crazy person.

I don't mind it. I did mushrooms by myself over the weekend, and I went on a three-hour long walk, and I listen to music. And when I listen to music, I move my arms and dance, and I don't care if everyone thinks I'm crazy. I do that during press, actually. I move my arms and dance. Tell me more. Phoner is such a fun old-school word that I know and you know, but I don't feel like people say it anymore. Oh, a phoneer? Can I explain what a phoneer is? Yeah, please. That's when you put a blindfold on and just see how far you could drive without hitting another person or piece of property. My first phoneer was with Gene Gray.

My first ever interview of anybody was with Gene Gray. I was 21 years old and my recorder didn't work. And so I had to play MASH with her. And that became the whole interview. I like wrote, I drew out, remember MASH? Did you ever play MASH? I remember. You got to remember.

I remember, like, I got you probably, probably like 10 years. MASH is a TV show to me. You know what I'm saying? Sure, of course. Hot Guy, we know the whole thing. But MASH was also a game that you played. It was Mansion Apartment, Shack House. And it was, it's like a game where you like have four different options for everything and you count it out.

It's like a, it's a fortune telling game, basically. That's what I did with Gene Gray. And they ran it in the magazine. They scanned it and ran it. That's amazing. What a great first phoneer. I had so many great things. Do you remember Vapers?

Magazine, yeah. Yeah, that's where I first started writing when I was the music editor for a while. So many things happened. You're based on the West Coast? Yeah, that's right. In the Bay or where? I lived in San Francisco really briefly, but I'm in L.A. Okay, that makes sense because Vapers was out there, right?

It was in, I think it was Sacramento. Yeah. And that was back, you're talking about back when, which... This is the early 2000s. Yeah, and so that back then you kind of had to live by who you were writing for it. It was helpful. It was helpful. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

100%. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so good. So many things happened. The Grouch hated me. Why? Because I think I gave his album a bad review. Who even allowed me to review albums?

I was 21 years old. I didn't know anything. But no, no, no. That actually makes the most sense because their readership was 23 years old. You know what I'm saying? It's like it shouldn't be 45-year-olds reviewing rap albums for people in their 20s. You know what I'm saying? It's such a good point.

Nah, and I'm sorry that Grouch hated you. But, you know, artists are very sensitive. They're sensitive. I understand. We really do love what we do and we believe in what we do. Even when we know what we're doing isn't tight, we still are like, yo, it's like, I got 1,500 kids. Not all of them are going to be pretty and not all them are going to be smarts. And not all, you know, I'm going to have some clunkers in there.

And I'm still going to love my clunkers. You feel me? Totally. Yeah, yeah. Can't wait for your children to listen to this. If you come along and you're like, yo, you know, three percent of your children suck. You know, I'm going to want to fight you. You know what I'm saying?

I'm the very best, I think I called it mid before we said mid, but he didn't like it. You put out a follow out for me. But it was a fun time. Also, I think Aesop Brock got bad at me once because before I met him, because I emailed him about something and he thought I was a man. And he didn't, I think the way I was speaking, which was like kind of cutesy, felt offensive to him if it was another man. And so he was very offended by it, because he couldn't tell from my name if I was very funny.

We had a time being an underground hip-hop music writer. Okay, number four, what's the first song that made a meaningful impact on you as a child? Something, Prince, something off in 1999, probably. Well, actually, now that I really think about it, the first thing I memorized of him was, I think it's the end of controversy. He goes into this chant.

you're gonna have to fight your own damn war because we don't want to fight no more I feel like I should Google that real quick but as a kid it was easy to memorize it almost sounded like you know a military chant of sorts and it had a you know row row row your boat kind of aesthetic or bounce to it and I got to say the word damn

and none of the adults were tripping on me and so I would say controversy by Prince might be grew up under the grace and shadow of Mr. Prince. Oh, yeah. I wouldn't even call it a shadow because I was too young to be overshadowed by him. I'm sure like artists from here in their 20s during the 80s hated Prince probably. You know what I'm saying?

Because he probably was the one that made it and they all felt like I'm better than him or, you know, if he could make it, why can't I? Same shit that happens in scenes today. You know, when somebody breaks out of a scene, everybody else pretends to be their friend while stabbing him. We hate it when our friends become successful. Yeah, and so I feel like, or even people from your scene, you know what I'm saying? It's like, it's like, but really the truth is, if they become successful, what it does is it shines light. It doesn't, it's not a shadow. So I don't see Prince is someone who cast it a shadow.

I don't see any of the artists that came out of Minneapolis's cast. Oh, the song, the song's called, it looks like it's called Party Up and it's off a dirty mind. Oh, yes. Oh, my God. I can't wait to play that. So you asked what music I heard today. That was a question I didn't have a good answer to. This is going to be the first song I hear today.

When me and you were done, I'm going to go and listen to party up. Nonetheless. You're going to meditate on what you've talked about here. Maybe. I don't know. I'll probably be in the car. Minneapolis has one of my favorite musical histories for me personally. Because of prints.

The replacements. Husker do. Prince, Husker do. Babes in Toiland. Rhymesairs. I mean, there's so much good. I think it had like a role. a hot streak for a while

that no one talks about. The inside of me that tingles when you put Rhym-Sayers at the end of that list. No, I'm just saying. I mean, it's part of the Minneapolis. Oh, Lyft or Puller. I love Lifter-Puller.

Shout out again, Dan Monick. I stand too close to Rhym-Sairs, and so I don't really get to have moments where somebody lists all of these exceptionally legendary units and puts us into it.

You know, you feel me? It's not like a... So again, like I say, hearing you say all that and then say rhyme sayers, I will probably always get those tingles, you know, because, again,

Prince didn't cast a shadow. You know what I'm saying? Babes and Toiland didn't cast a shadow. They cast a light. You know what I'm saying? And so the scene takes it a certain way, but they don't even realize that this is a light.

And you don't have to go stand in the light. The light isn't for you to stand in. The light is just to bring other eyes to the situation. And that's what Prince did. Without Prince, time, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, then eventually that turned into an amazing Janet Jackson record came out of that. You know what I'm saying?

And that's because of the light. You feel me? It's like because of Rhymesayers, you know, there was so much presence and spirit and opportunity here for artists through sound set, through, and just through all. all the spotlights that were flying around. You know what I'm saying? And so it's like, I love that. And so this is just one long flinch from you asking about Prince Cast and a Shadow.

That's all this was. Thank you for coming. It's a beautiful answer. Minneapolis. Okay. Number five. Wait. Did you used to email me too?

I don't think so. Okay. Because I just started thinking about the name. I think once you gave me $5. to go away, that was pretty much the end of our relationship. Like forever? No, we're back now. But I don't think I was going to take the $5 go away,

then break the contract and email you later. Do you know what I mean? I like your style. We had a binding contract. Money was exchanged. I just was like, can you go away for 45 minutes probably? You know what I'm saying? You weren't specific about the terms.

Yeah, I apologize for that. That's good, though. Like, I have learned since then to become much more intentional. We've all grown. We've all grown since 2003 or whatever. Wait, were you wearing a cango? I don't think so. Oh, maybe.

I did have a cangle. A powder blue, maybe? I might have been white. A white cango. God, you guys, I wore a cangle. You know, you don't understand it was 2003. Did I have a North Face vest that was puffy? Absolutely the fuck I did.

It was a time. It was a different time. I don't know why I suddenly saw you with a kangal on, but... I think I literally did have a white cangle. I'm not kidding you. You might have. I might have been wearing it. You might have.

You might have. It was a God Loves Ugly Tour, I think. Yeah, that sounds exactly right. There was the God Loves Ugly Tour. Wow, look at this. We've unlocked a buried memory. Look at the big brain on Brad. Yeah.

All right. All right. Okay, number five. What is the first album you bought with your own money or shoplifted with your own two hands? Well, I got a 45. So I wanted to start getting records. And for chores, I used to get like three or four dollars every weekend, I think. I can't remember.

And back there, records, yeah, records were like $1.50 for a 45, a full-length record to be anywhere from $5 to $7, you know. And so the first time I went to go spend some allowance that I had saved up was the, it was a 45 by Run DMC. It was a 7-inch by Run DMC for 30 days, which wasn't even the one. Right, I was going to say, like, of all the ones. Yeah, of all the ones on that album, I bought that. But it was on name alone. I didn't know what the song was. To me, this was a run-d-m-c record.

So I wanted it. And that impulsive type of purchase, of purchasing that without realizing that it's not the one. Heard they said it's a reigning man. You were like, hell yeah. But wanting it, you know, basically ruined my life. In here, I don't know. Obviously, your audience can't see,

but I could turn this around just to start to kind of give you an idea He's a collector, you guys. What I'm looking at is many, many, many, many, many. How it ruined my life, yeah. And this is just the lower level. There's more problem above me right now. What do Gen X men love more than collecting vinyl records? Literally show me what they love more.

I mean, honestly, it could be comic books. It could be garbage pill kids, stickers. Like, Gen X people just like to collect. It's because their parents were hoarders. Yeah, maybe. It's kind of like, you know, I'm a hoarder, so. If your mom was a cat lady,

then you're at least a half cat lady, feel me? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I do think that eventually we'll get the generation that is more space-centric, more, you know, it's interesting. I think it's millennials.

They're like a Swedish sensibility. I don't think it's, well, you just said something, though. You said Swedish. And that makes me go, well, actually, the rest of the world has been better at not consuming space for a long time. It's kind of a straight up American thing.

You know what I'm saying? Because we're the biggest consumers in general. It's our culture. We were taught to collect stuff. We were taught to keep it. We were taught to save it. And then we were taught to put it in the yard and sell it when you're ready to collect more stuff.

Love a garage shop. I want to go to like a garage sale in Norway. I bet it doesn't exist. I don't even have garages. They don't even have cars anymore. It just is a utopian. society with no garages, no things. They do the Star Trek thing.

America forever. I love garage sales. I love hoarding. They'll take my Polaroids of rappers from 2003 out of my cold dead hands. Is that what you collect? Polaroids of rap? Okay. I don't.

What is it? Clothes, I guess. I totally like, see, the problem is I, you were like, I collect clothes, but as soon as you hit the I collect and the k sound, I wanted it to be coins. Like, I immediately thought the word coins faster than you. said the word clothes. I think collecting coins is so uninteresting to me.

Like, I don't understand it. It's also like the most it's like stamps, right? It's the most, stamps is at least more interesting because stamps have like cool and different art. Like to collect coins, that's like on a level of shit that I don't understand.

That might be the allure. Yeah, maybe. I used to collect Marvel Masterpiece series cards. Do you remember those? I don't, but I applaud that. Yeah. If you're at the shin dig and people are doing the shin dig thing and they're talking and you're sipping whatever it is, the THC drink or wine or water, and you're like, I collect

coins, you might just become the coolest person in that moment because of exactly how you described collecting coins is this like, why would you? Because right now, here's a person that, because who do you, do you actually know anybody that collects coins? No. No, because that's, I don't know, I don't know. It'll create an allure of mystery is what you're saying, like around you where people will be like, wow, there must be something more to that woman. Mostly because it takes up far less space than these records.

I'm suddenly attracted to the idea of collecting coins. I have a decent amount of records because I get sent them, but little did these people know I don't have a record player, that I do like having the records. You get sent down, are they, are they, so you don't even know if they're good records or bad records. You just have this. I know what the contents are because they're like, they're all old. I have another podcast called Bansplaine where I explained bands, but they're all... I thought this podcast was Bansplane. The hell are, what is this?

What are we doing? Have we explained? This is 24 question party people. Oh. You're welcome to come on Bansplaine anytime. That takes about five hours of your time. Why would you do that? Why would you spend five hours?

Like, I got to go to the post office today. People like it. I'm sure. I'm sure. People probably like to listen to it. That's fine and dandy. I'm talking about the work. put into a five-hour conversation.

You don't even know the work that it takes for me to prep for that five-hour long conversation. I just did an episode and I made a 133-page Google Doc. Oh, my God. To go through the entire. Sounds like a lot of weed smoke. I'm a microdose mushrooms person. I don't smoke weed, really. It doesn't sit well with me, but I'll microdose mushrooms and I'll go in hard.

That's a great sentence. Okay, next question. Did anyone in your childhood ever tell you you're never going to make it? it, Mr. Slug, or something like that. You know, like they do in the movies. Like, you're never going to amount to anything. Oh, you want to be a rapper? Good fucking luck, bitch, like that, anything like that.

I don't think anybody ever did. And I wouldn't say that nobody ever thought it. Sure. But I don't think anybody ever actively put that in me. But also, I didn't ever, like, forego something to do this. I didn't, like, go, I'm not going to go to college. You didn't go to college. No.

You were already not going to go to college. I was already not going to go. That had nothing to do with rapping. That had nothing to do with rapping. Exactly. I was already kind of on my path when this even remotely started to happen. I was what they call a late bloomer. Most rappers are like getting in the van at 21.

I was a little bit older when I started getting in the van. I was a little bit older when people gave a shit. Prior to that, I was making rap songs because of it was It was fun. I was putting out, I shouldn't say putting out. That's a weird description of what we did back there. It's more like I was trying to get people to hear my songs, not because I had any remote hope of having a career,

but just because I just wanted people to think, people around me to think I was cool. I wanted people to like me. You know what I mean? All that stuff. But I was already a driver. I was a truck driver. Like a long haul?

Not yet, but that was where my trajectory was going. So you do really like driving. Oh, yeah. There's nothing like it. I used to write songs while driving. You know, the whole, like, obviously, you should never text and drive. However, I used to write on a notebook while driving with an effing pen, bro. Like, it's like super dangerous, I'm sure.

You can curse on this program if you like. It's up to you, but I don't want to push your arm. I probably will still do things like that because it's fun. But I was already headed that way. I didn't go to college. I barely came out of high school without bruises. And so I, and then I had a kid at 21, but that was already after I had started my trajectory

of what I wanted to do as a laborer. You know what I mean? So I was headed for driving, eventually get a CDL, eventually become high-level union. Sure, well-paid. You know, because I was a salesman, too. I knew how to talk. I knew how to do my thing.

And so I was like, oh, I'm not just going to drive a truck, but I'm going to drive a truck until I need the next ceiling to break. And so I had all this planned out because I knew I wasn't going to college. I wasn't going to join the military. I needed health insurance for this kid. I mean, I have never wanted to do you. I was never an illegal person, feel me? Really?

Nah, man. At worst, I would buy. Nothing? Shoplifting? nothing. Oh, when I was a kid, there were moments, but never at a time when it could have gotten me in real trouble. I stole some wristbands from Sears when I was like 12. And they, even though, like, sweatbands, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, like, why? Because of the break dancing. But, but we get to that later. Because of 30, 30 days around DMC. I stole those things and

thought it scared me. Just doing it, the adrenaline, all that stuff, I was like, that's not for me. And then later in life, there was probably some petty thievery, but not like hardcore jail shit. And then at one point, I got involved in something that could have been jail shit. And it scared the shit out of me. And I was- Pyraman scheme, like fraud? What are we talking? Well, I, I, you know, it's one of those things that I'm like, I wrote a statute of limitations up.

Can we talk about it? I wrote a song about it. We can talk about it, but I don't like actually joking and. talking about it because it paints it in a way that is not. Right. It makes it too light. Or something. You know what I'm saying? It just is, but there's a song about it called 66th Street. Okay. And in the song, I approach it from a comedic space. But the truth is, it was, it was traumatic for me and it taught me a valuable lesson. And yeah. But at the same time, it wasn't like jail shit. Right. You know what I'm

saying? It's like, it just was like, oh, shit, this is. You had to course correct. You were like, wait a minute, I'm going off, off track here. Yep, and after I course corrected, you know, and also weed. There was always a weed thing in my life, you know what I'm saying? But I never was a weed dealer. At best, maybe I would pick up an ounce and then chop it into three quarters and then sell three quarters to pay for my one quarter so I could smoke for free. There was a time that that was as big as it got for me.

You were simply a Virgo. You were simply a practical Virgo, an entrepreneur. Yeah. How did we get into this? We were talking about no one telling you that you were never going to make it. Amazing. Yeah, never. And no, jail wasn't my shit.

College wasn't my shit. I was going to be a worker. And then people suddenly around my city started to give me attention for rapping. And so I took a real comfortable step into that and then realized, hey, I could put work into this the same way I was putting work into this. And so I just brought my whole... Your hardworking Virgo aesthetic. My vision of what labor looked like. You know, I took that to

the world of rap, which truthfully is the only real excuse I have for how we got it off the ground. Me and a couple of other people all treated it like work, like a job. And it was far more because of that than it was about talent. The talent came later, the talent, and

talent's even arguable. You know what I'm saying? But in my opinion, the talent came later and grew because I afforded myself the time, more time, and resources to be able to put into the craft, not punching somebody else's clock or just really putting tons and tons of time into trying to teach myself how to write. You know what I'm saying? And so it's like, I feel like all of that still comes from this space of just being a hard worker much more than I would suggest that it comes from the space of being like natural. Totally. I 100% agree. I genuinely believe that in

Most creative pursuits, 80% of it is just doing it. And most people just don't do it. And so putting yourself out there and trying is like more than half the battle. And then you can get good or you already tried. So people are just going to connect with what you're doing. It's just you have to fucking do it. And most people don't do it. The connection is the luck part.

When you hear those old phrases about how much of this is luck, the luck part is the connection. Because I always tell people don't give up on that. Because that can happen, it could take 20 years for the timing to finally hit. Regardless of what kind of art you're making, you got hell of artists that get famous after they die. Exactly. The world didn't catch up to them until they were dead. Or it can be cumulative, right?

It can be like you're incrementally connecting in small amounts, and then suddenly there's a tipping point, and then people go back and connect with your old work. And thank God, Sad Clown Bad Deb Part 2 is available on streaming now. Ah, I see what she's trying to. Yeah, that's very good. Can you paint me a quick picture of the trajectory from buying the run DMC single to being like, I want to rap? The run DMC single came after I was already, I wanted to be a breakdancer. Damn, it was the 80s.

And so I started, and then not only it, but breakdancing was the first time I really got a response from people for this. My father took us to some mall, and I don't even remember which mall it was at the time. but we got there and there happened to be a break dance competition in the middle of the mall, which I guess used to just pop off in the 80s, right? What are you going to do today? I don't know. Let's go down the mall and break dance battle somebody. So anyway, this competition popped off, but it was sponsored by probably a radio station or something.

And my dad was like, you should go over there and break. And I was like maybe 10 or 11. Were you already a dancer? Well, I was a break dancer. You know what I'm saying? So you're already doing it. Oh, yeah. We were already doing it.

Because of TV. Oh, so you learned it from TV. Learned it from movies, TV, and the neighborhood. You know what I'm saying? Everybody in the neighborhood wanted to do it. So I was younger than the older kids, so I'd watch them do stuff, and then I would try to do what they were doing, you know? Yeah.

And so my dad's like, you should go over there. And mind you, I wasn't that good, but I was 10. You know what I'm saying? So it was like I was just learning still. And so I went and I don't know where I got the gumption or the confidence to go, but I went and I did it. and they gave me some sort of like booby prize for being kind of good, you know what I'm saying? But to my dad, he was just amazed because I think maybe he saw, you know, people clapping for me or whatever.

And he was a young dad, I should add that. Yeah. You know, and so I think that he, all I know is his pride pushed me to really be like, oh, yeah, I like that. I want to be this. Well, we've unlocked something here. Yeah, pretty much. because you created a subconscious association. You created a pattern in your mind that guided you the rest of your life,

which was that if I get sort of like applause attention for a performance, then that means I'm loved. Oh, yeah. But here's what's how did the old, old time you guys say? Like, here's the screw. Here's the rub. Here's the rub. I love that.

Thank you. Here's the rub is that it wasn't just about performing and dancing. and then later DJing, which is what I got into when I started buying records. But even in school... The four horsemen of the hip-hop. In school, it turned me into a class clown. Who amongst us can relate to such a thing? Yeah.

It turned me into a douchebag. It turned me into a guy that was, you know, clapping on people, joking on people, giving people a hard time. Right. Which I kind of regret now. Like the kind of person that might give someone $5 to go away, would you say? Yes. Yes. That was still...

I would suggest that's a remnant of... of that era where it's like the joke is more important than the humanity right now, including my own humanity. You know what I'm saying? I'd throw myself under the bus just as good back then. I probably would have did better in school. Hey, we not unlocked this.

If I wouldn't have realized how much I got off on attention and how much I got off on being the center of the moment, I probably would have been more athletic. I probably would have been more, you know, because there was hell a trajectory, back then as a kid. There's so many different directions you could go. And being somebody who was interested in breakdancing and figuring out acrobatics with the body, I was like a, I was small, I was agile. So I just wonder like, oh, what would have happened had we not unlocked that? Like how much,

how much, how much, what would the space that I've taken up look like actually? Two things. One is, don't look back. You'll fall down, as my grandfather used to say. Number two is that unlocked would not be the word I would use. We create a subconscious framework for what the world is as a child. And then that is how we live our lives for so long without even realizing that's what's happening. Sure. I won't argue with that. Do you think that's interesting? I do. I do. I think that's super interesting.

It doesn't mean it's wrong. I mean, like it worked. You, you became who you became because that's the journey. The journey is like everyone's people don't like it when I say this. Like, your parents' job is to fuck you up. It's like that's the human experience is that no matter how good and how hard they try, they're going to fuck you up in one way or the other because that's what it is to be human. And then you spend the rest of your life sort of like learning and growing and overcoming whatever the fuck up was. I hear that and I find it super interesting.

But what I don't hear is the space for what if. You know what I mean? Because What is the point of what if, Ben? It's, well, I mean. It's not real. There is no what if. It never happened.

But I and by and large, most of the people I know work, we work out of our imaginations. We, yeah, so I don't care whether or not it's real. But you can't imagine, you can't reimagine a past. You can, you can imagine the future. No, you actually, no, you can, what it is, it's origin stories or it's, you know, you ever. You're like your self-mythologizing. You collect the Marvel thing, right? You used to write.

So have you seen the what ifs that Marvel does? Oh, like what if this person would not experience? Yeah, and all I'm saying is there's just room in there for imagination to take it because you can imagine a whole story possibly that isn't real, isn't going to change where you're at right now. But that imagined story actually can change your future. Because when you delve into it, think about it, work through it, there's a lot there. And that is the multiverse. The multiverse. Yeah, you write back to the album.

Good job. publicist is happy. No, but it's true. I guess I look at it as more like the best reimagining is reimagining what you could have received in the moment that, like, your story is a little more neutral, but like in the moment that perhaps like you created a bad association. Like here, I'll give you a personal example. My parents were our immigrants and they were very, very, very. into school and achievement and like, you know, because they love me. And to them, that was success.

And they wanted me to be successful. It's what they cared about is, like, me to be happy. And in their mind, that's how you're happy. And so they put all this, like, real pressure on it. And I just wasn't really like that. And I think I internalized this idea that, like, oh, I'm not what they want me to be. That means, like, I'm bad. I'm unlovable.

And it, like, created this, like, deep synapse like that. But you can reimagine, like, okay, what if it wasn't like that? What would it have looked like? like if they had been like, whatever you are is great. You want to be an artist, go to art school, gorgeous. You know, like, and like to your point, reimagining what that experience would have been like, I do think it's probably really fruitful.

Based on what you said, do you feel like there was a moment where your parents communicated to you that you were not loved? Not ever explicitly. And of course, like, they didn't think that. Like, they loved me. My parents were laid down in traffic for me. But I think what I got from it was like,

why did you get this a minus? it's not good enough. And it was like, okay, you're not good enough. And in my mind, you're not good enough means, well, if I was good enough, I would get the thing that is being offered, which is like love and acceptance. That's because you're a child. You're not able to rationalize. You're simply making really broad associations and really broad connections,

and that's the broad connection your mind makes. Do you feel like they were, that their toolbox was missing a tool? Yeah, exactly. Of course. That's exactly what it is. I mean, they, they grew up in Iran. They grew up poor in Iran where like the idea of like, the only way to like have any semblance of a good life was to succeed through school and money.

It was the only way, right? And of course, so they just applied that framework to their own child because they, what do they want more than anything for their child to have a good life? It was all from love, you know? It's just it was interpreted differently by me. and I also had a different life than they did. I didn't grow up in, you know, Tehran, super poor. I grew up slightly better in America because that's what they offered to me.

And so I was able, if I wanted to, to not be an engineer, you know, or a lawyer or a doctor or whatever. Do you ever wish that you were an engineer? No, never in my life. What does an engineer do? Great question. I have no idea. Math. But why?

Plans. Plans. They plan stuff. Because I remember in school we had engineers. Yeah. And so I always wondered, are they doing math? They're doing a lot of math. They're doing a lot of like spatial thinking, which I'm horrible at.

I'm really bad at spatial thinking. It's like a complete skill set that I lack all of it. That's because you're a tourist. I think it's because I'm an artist, creative, right brain or left brain. I don't remember which one is which. I'm pretty good at the spatial thinking. That makes sense. Wait, wait, wait.

So it makes sense for me because I'm a, Virgo, but it doesn't make sense your way because you're, you see, this is where... I didn't say because you were a Virgo. I just said it makes sense because of the way you've been talking. All right. Wow. Jesus, no, defensive about being a Virgo. Is that a sign of being a Virgo defensive?

Maybe. No, I don't think so. Well, my wife would probably tell you what is. That might just be a you thing, you know? I'm okay with that. Okay. Number seven. When was the last time you lied?

Oh, like five minutes? minutes ago. In this conversation. Gorgeous. Okay. Beautiful. Other than that, I don't know. Maybe, well, you know, I have three kids all under the age of 18 and one older kid. We have four kids. Yeah, but I have three kid-aged children. Three tiny child children. Yeah. Yeah, you have to lie to them all the time. That's being a parent.

Well, there's certain things that are, you know, you have to disrupt the truth is what I like to think about. It's like, because there is a truth and it's a, it's kind of like a, it's this thing that moves. You could call it a line. You call it big energy, but it's this thing that's constantly moving. And it is what it is. The truth is the truth. But there's always little, little parts that like kind of break off where it's like, well, I have to kind of fix this part and get it up in there with the rest of the truth. And sometimes you have to like put some paint on it and you have to do things to it.

You know what I mean? So I don't know if that's lying. You know, like someday maybe, that'll be up to my kids to decide, you know, when they're on the couch. They could talk about how they feel about, you know, me trying to pretend there was a Santa Claus all the way. I believed in Santa all the way up to seven, you know? It's like. That seems like an okay age. It's only like you're like 12.

Yeah, we'll see. I think that 12 was an okay age 50 years ago. I think that, you know, another 10 years from now, seven. is probably about right. It's like six, six. When you stop, you know, I don't know, like the kids are growing up very fast and I know that's an old, old person thing to say, but it's. But also way too slow, I believe. Honestly, I think it's a really weird, it's a really weird place that they occupy because I think the maturity that came for even my generation and definitely probably more your generation and like you go back to like the 50s and 60s, people were at 17 years old getting married and that

was totally normal and you would like be a wife and start a life. And now you're 17 and you're child. You were 17 year old girls are children and they're very coddled, you know? 17 year old girls getting married in the 50s were children, but just because culture normalized, it doesn't make it. No, I'm not sure. I really think that they grew up faster. I think there was an expectation of maturity. My mom was 16. She was 16, just like, just like a girl today is just, It's 16. Here's what I think. I don't think it's about,

I think when you have a conversation with a kid one-on-one is the only way to really see the maturity level. When they're in a group of kids. They go to lowest common than all. It is what it is. You know, they act like children. You know what I'm saying?

It's like, and so when you separated the 16-year-old from the pack, she might have seemed like a more mature, married 16-year-old in 19. But the truth is, like, she was still just a 16-year-old. You know what I'm saying? It's like, I don't know that. It's just weird for me because I have culture in my house,

and then there's the culture in the schools, and then there's the bigger culture. And I watch this to see, and I see my kids and their friends, and I believe that they got this. I believe that I see the maturity, and it's hard for me to dismiss or try to underwrite that because I'm like, man, like, I mean, you got it as good as we had it 40 years ago.

You know, you're handling this just as well as we were handling this. I think in some ways a lot better and in some ways worse. They got a lot, well, they got a lot more to handle. You know what I'm saying? They also have more tools, though. Like, we didn't, I didn't, I didn't know about fucking therapy speak, all this shit that they like know about these resources, these ideas. See, but now you're talking, all I wanted to do is like do drugs.

You're talking culturally again. And all this therapy speak has yet to be proven that it's actually. a positive thing for us. It's still relatively new. And the more and more that we learn, we're also unlearning things to fill that space. And so who knows yet? Again, I think it's all about separating that person or that group of people and having a conversation with them outside of the swimming pool. You know what I'm saying? Because any kid gets in a swimming pool and they all revert to four years old. It's like, ah, it's fun. You know what I'm saying? Most adults get in a swimming pool. It's the same thing.

Like getting in that water takes you out of the culture. You know, so how do we, so you got to take, you got to take them out of whatever society is doing to them right now to really kind of identify where they're at. And that's not to say there aren't hella goofy kids out there that are not, you know, doing it right. But by and large, man, I feel like, I don't know, I have a lot of faith in this generation of kids,

a lot more than I had in, you know, the 90s kids or the kids from my era, you feel me? It's like, because yeah, we were dufuses. Whatever, at least we fucking went outside. Well, we went outside, but we also. Unless we did shit. Because we were on TikTok all day. I'm like, go outside and smoke weed out of a Coke can, you fucking loser.

Go do something with your life. Yeah, nah. We were toxic kids, bro. Well, let's move on. Number eight, what character in a book or a film do you relate to the most and why? I don't know that I have one for that. It's okay. So no hero from a book or film.

Not even a film. Well, no. I think that I'm a little bit more, I see myself as the, so I got to find a good co-character, a co-star. You don't see yourself as the main character. That's really interesting. I mean, in my world, this is my world. Of course, you're always, you should be the main character in your own story.

I don't even see it like that. My world is just my world. My story isn't a story. Maybe because I'm not dead yet. Then my story becomes a story. Right now, again, it's just this, it's this, not linear, but it's this thing that is just and that's me

and then when the story's done then we can figure it out but this question has unnerved you this question has unnerved you this question has ruffled you yeah this is my ruffled face

I guess um you're allowed to skip one question do you want to skip this one question I want to be Ralph Machio in the outsiders uh that's a great Johnny his name was Johnny yeah yeah

Johnny, yeah, he dies. That's the one who dies. Well, he didn't die in the fire. He died later as a result of the fire. He died later because he was brave because he went to save the child. The outsiders was one of my favorite books when I was a kid. And so what I'm saying is because he wasn't the main character. You're right.

Pony boy was the main character. But he was mortalized as the hero, but the hero that also died due to being the hero. So yeah. We call those martyrs, babe. That's, there it is self-martyrdom. I am not a hero. I'm a martyr. I don't know.

That's the best I can come up with off of this, of trying to figure out. There's a lot to mind there psychologically, and I think you should take this to your therapist and talk to them about it. Well, I mean, when I was in middle school, people used to call me Johnny because, well, that's what they were insinuating. I didn't look like Ralph Macho. I just had dark hair and a little bit darker. skin than the rest of the white kids. You know what I'm saying? It's like...

Bit of an olive complexion. People say that, but olives are like green. And so I don't even know how to take that. But people say that about other people and I'm like, is that what an olive complexion looks like? What does that even mean? Do they mean from like olive country? Because olives are green or like gray. It's a green undertone. It's not like you're actually green. It's an undertone. Yeah. Yeah, that's my final answer. Let's go to the next question. What was your biggest sliding doors moment? I assume you haven't seen the film sliding doors. So I'll explain it to you.

It's as if you, in that moment, if you had made a different decision, kind of like you're reimagined, reimagined multiverse. If you had made a different decision, you wouldn't be where you are today. I mean, that could be that decision that I referenced breakdancing in the mall in 1980. or 1983 or whenever that was, could be that. Could also be the time that I went into the basement over in Little Earth on Southside Minneapolis. And that was the time that I met Ant.

Right. Also, it's a big deal. It's hard to say. It's hard to say. You know what I mean? when I finally decided to quit my full-time day job to see what would happen over here with rap, you know? I quit the day job and went and picked up a retail gig

just to make sure there was some money coming in to cover child support payments. And then I was going to live off of rapping and legal hustling which I did I used to have this when I started working there at the record store there'd be hell of promos that nobody would want because every goofy, dingy little dumbass label

would give up promos and so there'd be like weird classical record labels given us tons because we sold a lot of, we did jazz and classical music like nobody else in the city as well as blues as well as everything really so it was pretty much

the premier record store of the city I went and got a gig there. And I got that based on my knowledge of hip hop. They hired me. But once I realized, oh, I can have these promos, they'd be like, why do you want those? Oh, I think they knew why I wanted them because I would take them over to the other record store and sell them to there. And then I had a person over there who would give me top dollar on shit that was worth nothing. So I was able to feed myself. So you had a friend, an inside man. I had an inside woman, yes. Yeah, inside woman.

Of course, it was a woman. Of course, it was a woman compromising her job for you. They went both ways. Anyway, nonetheless. So maybe that, you know what I'm saying? Because who knows, maybe had I not made my dad proud break dancing, I still would have found out that I loved making people clap and smile and shit. And maybe had I not quit that job, I still would have ended up rapping.

And, you know what I mean? you don't know what is what is really written and meant to be versus what these sliding door moments are. I love that term, sliding door moment. I think that's pretty cool. You should watch the film. It's a Guineph Palchra romantic comedy. Not cool. Maybe you'll find your character that you most relate to.

It definitely would be a Gwyneth Paltrow character, no matter what. So here, we win. You know, yeah, I don't know. I think those are good answers. I do think you're underestimating yourself in that all you do is, What about the mist sliding door moments, right? Because there are times, okay, well, there's times where I declined something only later to realize, wow. How did I not do that?

You know, like I've read for movies or declined to read for movies that ended up. You know what I mean? Or, you know, there's certain things that you choose not to do, mostly not to do's. There's not to do's that you wish you had, but you were standing on some sort of like, well, I can't do that because I can't take money from high. for this European tour because that... Oh, we have a future question about that. You can save that. Who you didn't take money for.

Don't worry. There's a specific question about that. I don't believe that there's any such thing as a wrong decision. Okay. Okay. All right. That's my feeling. You don't have no kids, right?

Not yet. And probably never. TBD. But again, I don't think there's any wrong decisions. I just don't think there's any wrong decisions. I think that having kids taught me there's definitely wrong decisions. because you have to start helping other people figure out their process of decision-making. And when you suddenly become kind of responsible for helping another person figure that out,

you realize, oh, shit, I had these weird parameters all the time, and now I have to actually kind of like help somebody else. Yeah, but they're also going to have that own new parameters. Of course, of course, of course, of course. But it starts as early as like, you know, no, listen, I need you to not hit your brother in the face with a block. You know what I'm saying? It's like there are wrong decisions that you got to kind of start getting in front of as a. Well, you learn from it. Yeah. But, you know, learning doesn't have to always be traumatic. No, but it will be when it needs to be. I'm going to digress. It just will be when it needs to be.

Number 10, Mr. Slug, what characteristic are you most drawn to in other people? Like, do I like when people are like funny or like optimism? Yeah, something like that. Optimism. It's a good answer. Why do you like that? Because it's not a bummer, I guess. You know, there's enough to be afraid of and there's enough to think about without walking into it.

a skeptic or a cynic yeah you know there's you know like problems present themselves you don't have to look for them unless you're an engineer yeah what's you got to do the math yeah I think that's a that's a really great answer because I do think I feel like I don't know if you relate to this but when I was younger I definitely was drawn to cynicism there was something about it that seemed really powerful to me and also maybe I was just also really negative so it was like you sort of like want to like indulge that with someone else. But then like as I've gotten older and like I have no use for cynicism and I think it's really a horrible way to live your life and it colors your experience. You get to choose how you experience life and like why would you choose to experience it with such

a negative lens? And then when you're around people who do that, you can't help but sort of get pulled down into that and I don't like it. I like that. Okay. Number 11, who is the last person that you met that you were starstruck by? I'm starstruck by everybody. I'm not, yeah, that's not fair for me. You were not starstruck by me in 2003 when you gave me $5 to go away. I might have been.

Maybe that's why you were so starstruck, but you were like, I can't be near this person she needs to go away. Here's $5. I met up with Sage Francis for lunch like a month ago and I was starstruck by him again and again and again. Yeah, I get starstruck by everybody.

I get awkward, I get aloof by by people who I respect, by people who I revere, by people who I admire, every time I'm around Brother Ali, I feel starstruck, you know what I mean? And so, it's, you know, as far as like,

as far as people who are like my heroes, like I have met the majority of them now. And I would say of all my heroes, the one who left the most amazing and large presence of a impression upon me would be LL Cool J, I think. Oh, amazing. What was that interaction like? Okay, so he was on tour and his DJ, Z-Trip, and me are friends.

And Z-Trip was like, yo, we're coming through. Do you want to get on stage and spit a verse? and I was like, huh? Yeah? And he's like, all right, what do you want to do? And I was like, oh, man, like, let's think about it. What should we do? And I went and just kind of like revisited a few of his singles.

And I came back and I was like, what about big old butt? And he was like, let me see. And then he came back and he was like, yeah. And so I took the beat and wrote a 16 and demoed. it and sent it to him and was like, see if you can get this cleared. You know, is this cool? And he was like, bro, you do whatever you want. You know what I mean? I took it all like, you know, super serious. And I was kind of freaked. Like to take it up the flagpole. You know what I was. And he was like, dude, you're good, whatever. And I was like, okay, cool.

So should I come to sound check or something? You know, and he's like, yeah, yeah, come on. So I got to sound check and it was just me and Z-Trip. And so we're just checking. You're like, where is ladies love cool check? Not even, I get it. No, I understood. I was like Z-trip probably does his sound check. and knows what he needs, et cetera. So we just check my mic, make sure everything's good. He lets me do the verse once. It's in a huge basketball stadium.

And the third time I had ever wrapped in this basketball stadium, which is kind of crazy to me. Okay, so I come back when it's time to do the performance. And it's like De La Sol is there, Ice Cube, L.L. It's like a huge, huge concert, you know. And I had the privilege of meeting De La a handful of times. Like we were on speaking terms, you know what I mean? So I'm like, I'm talking to those guys and kicking it and whatever.

Then it's time for me to go on stage. And I go up there and I do my thing, you know, with him. And he smiles the whole time. And it's like he's cheering me on. I'm on stage and LL's over here like letting me know he's proud of me or something. It was amazing. And I did my thing. And then I left.

And then I went backstage again to hang out with Ali and Dela. And then Zach comes and he's like, do you want to meet him? And I'm like, yeah. And so he takes me and Hebel, one of my good friends who tours with us, we go on their tour bus and he meets me. And I'm just like, yo, and we take a picture. And I tell him the dumbest anecdote. I don't know why.

I always get stuck telling anecdotes to people that don't really want to hear You know what I'm saying? It's very, this is a very classic thing I think people do around when they're star-struck. I told them about this thing that I had made

that's a wooden nameplate that says, I wish you gold. Because I told him, I always thought it was funny. He says, I got a gold nameplate that says, I wish you would. So I got a wood nameplate

and I really did have one made, you know what I'm saying? That's a really good anecdote, though. Well, I mean, I don't know if he even heard me because he just kept smiling, you know what I'm saying? and shaking. It was just like, oh man, like, you know, it was so dope. But that was maybe the last time that I was like super awkward in front of a hero. I had a very similar thing with Snoop too. When I got to meet him, I was just like, I had one of my kids with me. And he's like,

hey, what's up? We're going to take a picture. And I made a face. And then my kids saw my face and makes the same face. And then Snoop sees our faces. And I'm like, is he going to make the face? He didn't, he just laughed. And so I got this photo of me and my kid making these dumbass faces and Snoop just like cracking up. I make, I make shit awkward. So that's why my heroes don't want to meet me. Yeah, I hear you. They want to pay me $5 to go away. You feel me? You see? Okay, see, you see, you see. Hurt people, hurt people is what I'm hearing. You're kidding it all wrong. Number 12. When was the last time you slid into someone's DMs? You're a happily married man. obviously I don't mean sexually, just using that blue check to connect with another person.

A bunch. Last November or December, November probably, I slid into a few famous people's DMs to see if they'd be interested in making appearances in a music video. Name names, babe. Why would I do that? I can't do that. Because that was the question. That's the question. It says when was the last time. You didn't say who. Yeah, but like you know what I'm asking here. not let's not be worthfully ignorant. Max Castor, he's a wrestler.

Okay. And Taryn Manning, she's an actress. Famous actress. And there's got to be a third one there. Did it work? Yeah. Did they all come to your music video? They did.

It's great. It worked. It was amazing. I wish I had a blue check. I would slide into some. They don't give me one. Just buy one like the rest of us. You have to pay for that?

I don't know. That's all record label shit. Um, okay. Am I going to get in trouble for saying that? Fuck, fuck everybody. From who? From Instagram?

Yeah, exactly. They don't listen to this program. Okay, yeah. I mean, you can buy them from Twitter, right? That's, that's a monthly fee for sure. You can buy them from anybody. I'm saying, it's just, it's just all about, I mean, what is it, what, you know, what do we? I mean, it's kind of sick not to have one, honestly.

I feel kind of punk, you know? That's tight. Yeah. I hope that works. Thank you. Um, all right. What is the horniest song? ever in your opinion?

I mean, it's obviously Prince, but it's like, you can throw a rock catalog and yeah, it's going to be a bunch of them. The last guest I think said erotic city. Let's pretend we're married. Oh, that's really good. It's better than erotic city. Tell that guest. For me,

of the Prince ones, it might be if I were your girlfriend. That's another really... Because that one is so fucking sexual. Well, I will say this. I definitely put, if I was your girlfriend on the tapes that I would play when I was kicking it with a girl, whereas I didn't put Erotic City or Let's Pretend We're Married,

because those were kind of dance jams. They're more party jams. If I was your girlfriend, like the sound of it is so fucking horny. Yeah. Great, a great tune. Also, the TLC covers were just, um, okay. What's the biggest money you've ever turned down?

And what was it for? I mean, I'm not going to speak publicly about amounts of money because... Why? Why? I'll tell you. what, the guy from Thursday was on here, it's my favorite story because he's given the best answer of all time so far. He turned down $1 million for the band to be in an American Express ad. Amazing. Amazing. Who did it? Huba stink. And the reason is you, I'm not a perfect person.

We all know this song. Come on. Don't pretend. I'm not pretending. I know Thursday, though. Yes, great band. But I don't know that song you just sang. Or maybe it was you. I'm borderline toned off and I'm not good at singing song. So it's probably my rendition, but I think maybe if you heard the song, you know it. We're all friends here. Okay. I don't think I've ever turned anything close to a million dollars down.

My thing has always been more like people who have offered sponsorship for tours or things of that nature. But nobody's ever asked me to do a commercial ever. You know, I turned down a handful of pretty great record deals. Like who? All of them. But can you name names? Every major. Really?

Yeah. But we never even reached a point of talking money. I think one time we reached a space where we started talking numbers, but only because they were... Did you at least let James Ivan take you out for a nice meal? No, we met in his office. Okay. Was there pastries? In the afternoon.

You know what, there might have been food, actually. I don't remember. I don't remember if there was food or not, but there very well could have been. But I wasn't much of an eater back then. That was around the time I met you. I was a drinker. Right, sure. We met with everybody.

And we not only met with everybody, but we met with their heads. Like, everybody wanted the next M&M. Sure. And they were like, this guy's white-ish. Yep. I'm pretty sure that really it was because we had backing numbers. We had numbers that showed what we were doing in tickets. We had, you know, we put out an independent.

You had built up an actual fan basin falling on. And so they are like, well, if they can do that with fucking sticks and rocks and snot, then what do you think we could do if we put some money behind it? You know what I mean? Totally. And shit, we did warp tour. And that was a part of, I think, everybody, when we went on that first warp tour, everybody was like, ooh, what's going to happen next?

Everybody was expecting this thing. And I'm pretty sure that every single one of those labels exhaled a sigh of relief when they started. It didn't. When they saw it, yeah, I'm kind of glad they turned us down. You know what I mean? Well, that could have also been a sliding doors moment, but we won't get into it. I'll tell you what, I did see Eminem on Warp Tour. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Got water bottles thrown at him. No one liked it. That never happened to us, but I think that we also approached it very differently. Me and Merce and Dibbs approached Warp Tour. You guys have more of a punk energy, I would say, than Eminem did. We made sure that we could at least interpret and try. and do our best to speak their language. Right.

You know, we didn't come up there on some, like, this is some hip-hop shit. Some real hip-hop, y'all. And if you don't understand this shit, then something's wrong with you. We came out there like, look, you maybe have never seen this before. So we're going to showcase this in a way that,

that, you know, just check us out. Stick with us and then tell us how you feel afterwards. And, you know, there were a few bottles and whatnot, but for the most part, I think even those bottles that were thrown, were meant for a different rapper. I think that straight up, because I think it was kind of like muscle memory,

like, oh, I'm supposed to throw this at the rapper. Because even the one that, you know, I remember when they got thrown, we actually stopped the show and chase that too. And because it hit Mersh. It hit them right in the face. You feel me? I interviewed him too.

So Dibbs caught the guy and took his shoes. And even felt like, yo, that kid didn't mean it. He didn't know what he was doing. Okay, number 15. What's the best live show you've ever seen? I want to say Prince. You know, but I saw Portishead play in Copenhagen. And I saw Radiohead play in Sweden.

And that was... What year? I got arrested while they were playing. What? Wild during the set? During their set. It was amazing. What were you doing?

Smoking weed. Not okay in Sweden. Yeah. I don't like that shit. Don't smoke weed. Don't smoke weed. What year is this that you saw Radiohead in Sweden and got arrested? Like what album cycle? Sevens Travels.

Not your album cycle, babe. Radiohead's album cycle. Oh, who cares? I care. I want to know what they were playing. But it really doesn't matter because all their shit's pretty amazing. Yeah, no, it's so true. I mean, it gets a little spotty. It was 2004. and four.

So I don't think it was amnesiac. I think it was kid A, but I could be wrong. Yeah, between kid A and amnesiac. Damn, Kid A-Tort's so sick. Ugh. Idiotek. Ugh. So fucking good.

I saw Sharon and the Dab Kings. I saw, and that was a really good set. I saw, you know, I've seen a lot of shows here locally at First Ab. I am. And I was on the permanent guest list for like 20 years because of my affiliation with the record store. as well as Rhym's there. And so I could always just go down and see whatever I want.

And so I saw shows that were like absolutely amazing, but to me, you know what I mean? So like the Reverend Horton Heat at first Ave. I love Reverend Horton Heat. I saw him when I was 12, it was amazing. Okay, yeah. I saw Jobbox at first Ave. Jobbox is so fucking good.

People don't talk enough about Jobbox, I must say. I saw Frank Black at the question. when he was hot, when his solo, when his solo shit was cracking. Yeah. I actually sold merch at that show because I showed up and to get into this sold-out show at Quest, which might have been called Glamm at the time. I can't remember. I wasn't on the permanent list there.

So I begged Lift or Puller to let me be the merch guy. And atmosphere had already kind of been doing well in the city at this point. And this is probably God Loves Ugly maybe right before. And I was pretty drunk. But there are photos of me almost naked behind a merch table selling lifter puller shit. Gorgeous. They regretted that decision. I can't believe I haven't even blocked that out of mind.

You know, you can unlearn things, right? And then there's, yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot, you know. I know what I used to drink heavily as well. We have that in common. but I never blacked out, never, never, ever. And I was always so jealous of people who did. Because I was like, damn, that must be cool that you don't have to have like a fucking

permanent record of all the fucking dumb ass, embarrassing, humiliating shit you said and did. Because mine was just all right there, all right here. You know, the thing is even the, yeah, whatever. I'm right there with you, sister, right there with you, right there with you. Solidarity, babe. Okay, number, well, great, great segue into the next question, which is when in your life were you the most fucked up wasted hammered trashed? From 2002 to 2004.

I love when people, I think I need to reword the question, because people always interpret this as like a time period. And I'm talking about like one evening. There's not. Maybe that's the thing. With people who drink heavily, you can't even isolate one crazy story. It's just an eight-year period. Well, because that is the crazy story.

It's kind of like everything is just another page. Like every page there's more shit. You can't stop reading the book. Every page is just more shit, but it's truly a couple of chapters. When I was in high school, I drank super heavily. I lived in Singapore. I absolutely sold drugs. Mom and dad don't listen to this for Indonesian gang members.

And at one point I did almost get kidnapped. That might be up there for me. I was like maybe 17. I was a late bloomer when it comes to, drinking. I didn't start drinking until I started touring. I would have beers, but I was more of a pothead. I was a pothead through high school. I was one of those stoner guys. Only I was the one that wrapped. Right. And even pre-pot being cool, before Cypress Hill made the shit cool, we used to, we were secretly potheads. You know what I'm saying? And I didn't, yeah, I didn't

really experience what it was like to be truly faded on alcohol. until probably 2001, you know, probably post 9-11. And not that it has anything to do with 9-11, but that's just my way to date it. Got you heavily drinking. I started drinking with touring, you know, and that was around 2001. Perfect. And then two years later, it gave me $5 to go away. That tracks perfectly in the...

I mean, was I drunk when we met? I'm sure. I was drunk, so I wouldn't know. You know, when you're really drunk, you can't tell one other people are drunk. It's like everyone's just like where you're at. Well, when you're a real drunk, people can't tell when you're drunk. You know? Well, I wasn't like an alcoholic who was drinking since the morning, you know, pouring myself a good morning whiskey. I wasn't fucking Charles Bikowski. I was just a binge drinker. I was referring more to myself. I was. I was able to move without people always realizing how fucked up I really was. Yeah. I wouldn't have known. You were also an adult to me. You know, I was like 21 and you were like a man. Sure.

Okay. Number 17 and 18 are tandem questions. What do you? love the most about being famous and what do you hate the most about being famous? And do not say you're not famous because you would not be here on this program. At least at some level you have a level of fame. And I've seen backpack rap fans. They are some of the most devoted and worshipful fans on the planet. The answer to this evolves. At the height of my fame, the thing that I loved the most about it probably was the attention. That synapse. Girls liked me.

Boys liked me. And this was something I didn't have as a younger me. As a teenager, I wasn't that attractive to girls. I had to learn how to be funny. Yeah. Again, Homsd can relate. And then as a young adult, I wasn't attractive. I wasn't attractive.

It wasn't until I had a little fame. And I was aware of that. And so I wouldn't say I resented it, but I more so was like, meh, almost like dismissive of it, if that makes any sense. Like you resented, you were like, oh, now you like me like that? Exactly. I didn't do that. But I definitely used it to be more like, nah, I'm, I'm picky, or I'm outspoken, or I'm, you know, it's like I used my fame. I would say I exploited my fame to be able to say things that were my truths. but in hindsight I realize that

sometimes your truths don't always have to be said it all depends because if it's going to hurt somebody's feelings and you're using that whole while I'm just being honest with you bullshit you know what I mean it's like and so I had to go through this to really kind of learn that and and thankfully I did learn about a lot of that because I do think that growing and making sure to evolve and continue evolving is the only reason I still get to be here today. You know what I'm saying? It's like, because let's be real, the peak of my fame was 2004,

2003. And that's 20 years ago. And I'm still out here milking the shit. You know what I'm saying? It's like, and so, so that I think that speaks to the, to the way I treat people. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I think that's, I mean, it's so interesting to me because it always, when I feel like, if you talk to people in the peak of their fame, they're probably going to be less happy than they would be when you talk to them 10, 15 years later. Well, yeah, you start to feel fortunate 10, 15 years later. You start to realize like, oh, this is what this is. And you start to actually apply it to who you are as opposed to applying who you are to it. And so, you know, so I think at the peak of my fame, the thing that I loved most was the attention that it brought me.

And then at the peak of my fame, the thing that I probably, and I'm saying probably, because I don't know that I could actually give you the most honest answer here. But the thing that I liked least about it was probably the fucking attention. Because again, it's exactly. It was one thing to have people you liked or attractive people or people with money give you attention. but it was it was another thing to have like people come up to you and be like you know to tell you their stories of their tragedy or trauma unprovoked because they think they found a kindred person or expecting something from you right and so I would get people who would unload things on me that I did not have the tools to carry for them and I had to figure out how to navigate being this

type of a magnet for this kind of sad thing. And also I was not a sad person. I wasn't a very sad person, but somehow I became that. And then it was kind of like, well, am I becoming the caricature? Am I? Yeah, it was just a big mess. You know what I'm saying? So now it's in a much more manageable space. You know, it's like we do well enough to continue to buy ourselves time to keep going and making more music. Like I I'm allowed to come here and make music. Yeah. And so that's cool. And let's go until I finally get to go drive that truck. You know what I'm saying? It's like but but here we are 20 years later and we're still working at a level that allows us to keep working. You know what I mean? It's the dream. It's really the dream. I hope to

podcast till I die. I hope that for you as well. Okay. Number 19 is the wild card. The question I have for you is, do you have a nemesis? And do they know that they're your nemesis? Like an enemy? Yeah. Nah, I refuse. You don't engage. You don't play that game.

Have you ever had one? I mean, there's been people who've inspired songs from me, but that song isn't about that person as much as it is about how I feel about particular parts of life experience, right? Sure. What I do is I will compartmentalize you. If you are trying to be my enemy, I will figure out how to put you into a particular bucket of how I'm feeling. And then I will explore that feeling and I will clean it out,

maybe write about it a little bit, and then keep it moving. But the truth is hate is love. And so I'm not going to hate you unless I love you. I'm not going to waste that experience or waste that emotion on something that I'm not depending on to feed me, fuel me, fuck me, love me. And so, you know, yeah, I can't say that I have an enemy. I do think that over the course of time, I've probably got a few people who see me as maybe not an enemy, but as a bar to achieve. Or maybe a, how we talked about Prince shining light, where there were probably people who were like,

why did he get to have this life? I'm better than him. I think there's probably that kind of shit out there. But also, for all I know, that could be part of my imagination as well. Maybe I'm just presumptuous about that because it seems like that's how it's supposed to work or something. I think that's a fair assumption to make that,

I'm sure there's a handful of people that are envious of you at the very least. If that's the case, though, Shouldn't I be envious of J. Cole? For me, I see envy as information about what you want in your own life. And so once you look at it that way, it doesn't have a negative charge anymore. Because you can just be like, oh, I'm envious of that person because there's an unfulfilled thing in me that they're presenting to me. Let me go just see about that in my own life and my own self.

Whereas if you don't realize that, it can feel. really bad because then you're just making yourself feel bad about yourself, which is pointless. I feel like at this stage, and I probably should have given this caveat earlier in the answer, is that at this stage, I can't imagine anybody making me their nemesis. But in 0203, 04, when we were at peak, yes, I could see it because, you know, we came into the game after some of the underground movement had already been going. and we elevated fast. And so I could see some of my contemporaries being like,

what the fuck is this? I mean, I wouldn't name him just because I think he's old head actually. He always also, I think he always knew, like me and idea were never, we never shied away from telling people when we thought that they were amazing. And so I don't think if somebody who comes after you and maybe rises fast, but also lets you know, yo, you're an inspiration. You start to go, oh, okay,

so I can actually claim a little ownership of that rise. You feel me? It's like, oh, I inspired you to shoot for the stars. That's tight. Me and Zane Lowe. Oh, Zane Lowe is the... Apple Music interview. Yeah, but I remember his name from back

where he used to be like, I don't want to say... MTV UK. Yeah, yeah, okay. Is he the one for you? Not really, no. But it's just a... funny joke to make. I don't, I find myself to be peerless if we're being honest. Okay. I, I can't relate. Um, but, but yeah, like it'd be like, you know, if like somebody, uh,

just arbitrarily, like a McLemore, who, who went way beyond where I took it, right? Um, he definitely went somewhere different. That's for sure. Maybe I should pick somebody else. Uh, I'm trying to pick somebody who likely was influenced by us, but took it further. Okay. If they turn to me and go, hey, or like logic. I was going to say logic is a better example. Logic was open with me early on. It was just like, yo, like you guys are an influence. And so I'll never be able to look at logic and be like, that fucker.

You know what I'm saying? Because he already showed me the respect that, you know, and it's just like, you know, checking in. Like I'm in your city now. Let me check in. And so the city of, you know, underground rapper, or the city of whatever you want to call it, when Logic got to that town,

and right as he was starting to take off, he checked in and made me feel good. So I will always be like, yo, I root for that guy. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes so much sense. It's really easy.

Take notes, kids. It's that fucking easy to keep your elders from being haters. Just show up respectful at first. Just be honest about your influence and your love for them. Or you don't even have to be love. You didn't got that far. You could just be like, hey, I respect what you did, homie,

and I'm going to, I'm inspired. I'm going to take it even further. You could just say it as raw as that, and honestly, we'll be like, word. You know what I'm saying? It's that easy, you know? Like, yeah. Ageism and hip-hop.

That's it. That's it. Just that's, just the byline. It's there. I'll stop. Okay, number 20. When was the last time that you cried? I don't remember.

probably not that long ago though I'm a crier in the sense of I have a lot of things that present themselves and I process them I don't push them aside right

and so yeah I try to be you know I mean again if you ask my wife but she's you know she's a therapist oh damn good job hey you know

I should marry a therapist honestly save me money shoot for the stars you've got to shoot for the stars and so at the very least I do remember having a good cry at the end of May

Father's Day those are both relative to my father right you know just setting aside the time to think about him and honor him you know I'm I'm pretty sensitive to my surroundings and so

Oh geez man I cried more recently than that actually but it's not something I can really go into because it's somebody else's shit but speaking to that I cry for other people too You're empathetic That's a weird word

Is it? Yeah because it sounds kind of like scientific and shit It's like this isn't Like I'm not empathetic in the sense that you can apply I can't just apply empathy to what I am It's not the right word

There's more nuance than that word can really give. Empathy is like, hey, we don't know how to define any of this. So here's a word for it. And I feel like there's a spectrum. I hate that word to that. And I'm on that spectrum, but I wouldn't be like I'm empathetic. Because to me, that is speaking more towards, I'm an empath. No, I'm not saying.

I don't believe in that. I feel the pain of the world. It's not a real thing, babe. I'm an empath. I'm a highly sensitive person. Fuck out of here. None of that for here. But I think you can say that you're able,

I think there's some people that really aren't able to empathize with other people. They can't. Psychos. Sure. Psychos. But also like, the more twisted you are in your own bramble of shit and unselfaware, the harder it is to empathize with other people because you don't empathize with yourself.

You don't have compassion for yourself. You can't have compassion for other people. You showed me a picture of idea, Mikey. He used to always tow this line of like, We make darker music because that's what resonates with people because everybody has pain and we could share that pain. We can't really share happiness because when you do, you run the risk of turning off somebody who is struggling with it.

And so that's why I just never really got into Farrell. I'm happy. Because a lot of his music is, well, I mean, that's the literal. But a lot of his music actually, it's almost like it's not even hope. We've already reached it. It's here. We're there. I like songs about hope.

I think that's why the best joyful songs, they're bittersweet. That's the best experience, I think, for me, of music that has joy, always has a slight undercurrent of bitterness to it, because that's really the human experience. And also, it helps to experience the joy better because you know it's fleeting.

It's going to be gone. It's ephemeral. That's what makes it so special. Just like the gardener. He's gone, babe. We did it. We made it. He's gone.

Okay. Number 21, what's your greatest regret? If you don't like this question, the alternate is, what's your relationship with Dave Matthews Band? It's the same answer. It's the same answer. You were like, none. I have no regrets and no relationship with Dave Matthew's band. It's the same answer.

My ego. Oh. Unexpected. Okay, go on. I think it took me longer than most people to figure out how to not let my ego steer the vehicle. But also, I was probably late to the party as well. But, you know, it took me longer than it should have. I shouldn't say longer than most people.

But considering the position I was in and considering what my life was doing, it took me longer than it should have to lead with my heart, lead with my gut. and stop leading with my brain. Yeah. And how does that relate to Dave Matthews exactly? I don't know any of his music, and that is because I've been too proud to ever check it out. I'll make you a little playlist.

He's probably amazing. He is amazing. Not probably. It's a fact. Okay, okay. Yeah, I have a good friend that tries to say the same thing about, wait, I'm not going to go there. That's not cool.

All right, stop. Full stop. We're putting you on. Okay. We're in the home stretch. Number 22. What song would you like to hear just before you die? Can I keep going back to Prince songs? Yes, if that's your thing. The Ballad of Dorothy Parker. And why?

It makes me happy. It's calming. There's a, it's a, I don't know if you're familiar with it, but it's a story of... I am because I'm a big Dorothy Parker fan. Okay. Well, it's a story of him meeting Dorothy Parker. Obviously, this probably never actually happened. Who knows? Maybe it did. I don't know. I'd be surprised, but could. She died in 67, so. Yeah, then he probably, see, I'm not very familiar

with her story. But the song is like, again, similarly to what we were just talking about with happy songs. This song is not happy, but it's hopeful. It's got a vibe that's kind of like things will likely be okay.

Things are likely going to be okay. There's no promise. I'm not going to make no promises, but Things are likely going to be okay. It's only occurred to me now that this song probably isn't about that. Dorothy Parker. It might have just been a name that he is, but maybe he was a fan. I like to think that he was.

I think I remember reading that he was when I was. She's one of the greatest, greatest acerbic wit poets. But that's a good answer. I like the idea of wanting to feel happy just before you die. Hopeful. Hopeful, yeah. Number 23, what do you think about me? You're cool.

I think that you're good at this. I think that you're, I think that you're, I think you're good at what you do. You know, I have the experience of being able to see you while talking to you, which I think probably helps in a way because I think that some of your quips and responses might not, you know, if I can't, if I couldn't see that you were kind of like smirking to yourself or, you know, saying, like, I don't know how I would always take some of your responses. It would be maybe more sardonic if I couldn't see the actual, how proud you are of yourself. I like that. I think that part is tight. How funny you think you are. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay, okay. So, so I think it's cool.

It reminds me of my friends. I like, that's a great answer because I got like a slight bit of feedback about my process and that was, that was appreciated. Thank you. Wait, so in your prop, people were like, we're glad that we can see you. Or no, oh, you're saying just in my answer. Yeah, in your answer. Oh, geez. All right on. Well, I appreciate that you appreciate that answer.

I do think how you experience me is probably a litmus test of your own, you know, your own stuff. But that's how it is with everybody. Yeah. It do be like that. And the last question, number 24, is what do you want to plug, Mr. Slug? All right. I have an album. Me and Anthony, we put out a new album in May, and it's called So Many Other Realities Exists Simultaneously. Or there's an acronym, Smoors. And we've been on tour all summer running around, performing some of the songs in the album, as well as performing some of the classics off of the early grunge movement.

Yeah, like what? What songs? Oh, I've just the hits, you know, Jeremy. Sure. Do you do the voice? Like Jeremy Spoken. Oh, it ain't karaoke. I mean, doing the voice. What am I supposed to?

Am I going to Sinatra that song? Yeah, no, no, no. That's what your interpretation was. 100% do the voice. And we're going back out in November for a West Coast run. That will also hit a couple of Midwest sites. feel free to come out if we're coming. You're in L.A.?

We're coming to L.A. Let us know if you want to be on that permanent guest list. I made it. Do it. I mean, you might as well re-experienced college. It's so true. I can find another Kangle, probably, for the occasion. I think it'll probably be overpriced at this point.

I feel like Kangos are now sitting inside of like the secondhand shops, the consignment shops for like $150 or something. You're right. Make a Kango. That's the new new. is to just like just make a can go. Okay. I'll work on it.

All right. Check out the album. Go to Atmysfucks.com for tour dates. And Mr. Slug, thank you so much. What a pleasure this was. I really feel like we went on a healing journey together. I'm not going to lie.

I went into this thinking, why the hell is this supposed to be 90 minutes? And I was concerned about that. And it just flew by. And I told your publicist. I was like, I was like 90 is the minimum. It takes a,

takes a while. I mean, we just did two hours, and I just whizzed by. This is the longest, I think, episode yet. So congratulations. Oh, I'm sorry. No, it's great. I had a great time. All right.

Well, thank you. Thank you. Thanks for listening to 24 question party people. And thanks to my guest, Sean Daly, aka Slug. Atmosphere have tour dates all throughout November. Check out Atmosphere sucks.com for more info. This episode was produced by Chris Sutton and Jeff. Missy Miller Gordon with help from Justin Sales.

Our gorgeous theme song was composed by Heather Fletcher. Special thanks to Nicholas Soltor, Sean Pennessy, Rob Harvilla, and Neil's karaoke bar in Indio, California. Come back every Tuesday for a new episode of 24-question Party People on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. 24-question Party People.