Bandsplain - 311 with Marty Sartini Garner

Episode Date: March 10, 2022

In honor of 3/11 day, we present to you: 311. Purveyors of positivity as well as amber-colored energies, 311’s extensive career gets a thorough and loving look from writer and known Excitable, Marty Sartini Garner. Follow Marty Sartini Garner at @mrrrty. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's with this band anyway? I don't get it. Can you please explain? Wait, like, Bansplaine? Hello and welcome to Bandsplane. I am your host, Yossi Sallick. This is a show where I invite an expert guest on to explain a cult band or iconic artist to me and to you. Today's episode is about 311. If you've never heard 311, please allow this.

gorgeous brainstorm to take you away from the norm. This is what 311 sounds like. My guest today is writer Marty Sartini Garner, a music critic who has written for Pitchfork, the AV Club, Aquarium drunkard, and more. But most importantly for our purposes, is a music writer who will go on record as being a 311 fan. Welcome to the show, Marty. Hey, awesome.

Thanks for having me. Of course. We kind of spoke offline about this earlier, but not a lot of public. support for 311 in the music writer community? No. No. In fact, if anything, I would say there's anti-support, maybe even straight up hate at times. Yeah. I think there's probably a word for anti-support. It's interesting because we did an episode on Sublime a few weeks back. And Sublime is sort of experiencing, I would say, a cultural revisitation and reframing. I don't think 311 is enjoying the same thing, even though I think they absolutely fucking deserve it.

Yeah, I would agree with that. As somebody who worked very hard to try to make, that exact phenomenon happened for 311 a couple of years ago. I would say that right now, the five or six people in the music industry, or at least in the, I guess what we would call, like the hit music industry or the music writer world. The media elite. Yeah, us coastal media elites, those of us who are willing to go on. record as 311 fans has gone up from like about two or three people to nearly five or six

in the last couple of years. I would like to think that my having written about them for the AV club and a little bit for Pitchfork has been part of that. But yeah, it's for 32 years now, 311 has been a band that has actively repelled critics of all stripes from, you know, from the very earliest days in Omaha to, you know, just last week probably. Producer Dylan has called it the pitchforktagencia, and I don't like it. She thought she was going to get away with that, not being made public. Marty, how old are you? I am 37, I think.

Okay, so you're closest to my age. Are you from Los Angeles? No, I'm from, I grew up in Lafayette, Louisiana. Oh, interesting. Interesting. 311 make a big impact there in the early to mid-90s? Believe it or not, 311 is massively popular in Louisiana. I believe it. They are huge. They are huge in the city of Lafayette. They're huge in Baton Rouge, and they are gigantic in New Orleans.

One of the reasons for this actually is because they were initially signed to Capricorn Records, which was the label of the Almond Brothers. And Capricorn's network was all throughout the South. truly because they were, you know, because they were reping the almond brothers when they were first coming big. So they were putting 3-11 in every little roadhouse, you know, across the Gulf coast. And because of that, and because they had what was considered a pretty compelling live show at the time, they made a ton of fans in the region. So they, they've kind of continued to be popular, you know, not the way that, like, Drake is popular or whatever, but they've continued to be, like, a draw in Louisiana and in Atlanta especially. I mean, there's a reason why they

do 311 day in New Orleans. They split it between New Orleans and Vegas. And it's not just because, like, New Orleans is a party town. It's because they know they can draw there. I love that for them. Yeah, that's nice. Well, Marty, let's just take it from the top. Nicholas Lofton, Exum, was born in Madison, Wisconsin on April 12th, 1970.

He is an Ares. His family moved over to Omaha, Nebraska, obviously important for our story purposes, where he attended Westside High School and played in the high school jazz band. and also played in a cover band called The Eds, which I believe was named thusly because the drummer's name was Ed with Tim Mahoney, who was born February 17th, 1970 in Aquarius.

I think it's important to note that with the Eds, they were covering, not the artist you would expect 3-E-11 to be covering in their early days. Like they were mostly playing songs by R.E.M. It's the Smy. And the Smiths.

And the cure. Show me, show me how you do. And the cure, yeah. Later will become important. But they were very much like alt guys at that time or whatever the sort of the nascent concept of alternative rock in a place like Omaha, Nebraska would have been in 1985, was what they were into.

And I think that sort of sense of melancholy and sort of masculine sadness, it becomes a huge part of what they do, even in their more upbeat and popular songs. Yeah, that's a really good point. I mean, I guess most bands that we talk about, honestly, I'll start out covering songs since that's what you do when you don't want to play music. So that band does not go anywhere. But in 1988, Nick moves to Los Angeles with his band Unity, which included Chad Sexton, the Future 311 drummer, born September 7th, 1970 of Virgo.

Have you heard Unity? Can one hear Unity? I could not find anything. I'm not sure that one can hear unity. I think I'm not 100% sure on the timeline, but I want to say that they formed unity when they moved back from LA after 88. I'm not sure what the band was.

You honestly might be right because the origins of 311, as told by Wikipedia, are pretty shaky. And that's pretty much where I'm getting this. And there's a lot of convoluted misinformation. But there was a band called Unity. and I don't know when it was. Nick did move to Hollywood at age 18 to try to make it with his band.

And he had said that's where they started blending styles together because they were really into hip-hop and funk and punk. Red Hot Chili Peppers were obviously pretty established at the time. They weren't obviously huge because that didn't really happen until 91. But they had put out a few albums, especially in L.A. And, like, I mean, they had some MTV Airplane. They were a touring band. So people knew about Rattonja.

peppers. Spiritual ancestors of 3-11 in some ways. Yeah. Fishbone. Jane's addiction. I think they were really intrigued by the idea that you could combine funk with rock and roll with a little bit of what guys like that would have thought hip-hop was like at that time. Totally. And then they brought it back to Omaha for two years and tried to make it work.

Okay. You might know better about this then since you're the expert. So Nick had moved to Germany. I could not get any further information about why. And Chad Sexton enrolled in the University of Nebraska at Lincoln. That's where he started jamming with one Aaron Peanut Wills, born June 5th, 1974, Gemini, who was still in high school. And a guitarist named Jim Watson.

And they sort of form a band and they get a gig opening for Fugazi. Yeah, at the time they were called fish hippos. That's right, fish hippos. Fantastic name. Shout out to fish hippos. Yeah, apparently Nick was like, yeah, I'm not going to be in this band if it's called fish hippos, babe. So we got to change the name. I'll be in the band, but I don't want to be called the fish hippos.

But then the day that they opened for Fugazi, they announced on stage that they were changing their name to 311. So that's considered the very first true 311 show, which is, I mean, honestly, pretty amazing to say, like, yeah, we became a band the day we opened for Fugazi at Sokol Hall and Omaha, Nebraska. Insane. I mean, again, I don't know what the Omaha Nebraska music scene was like in 1989, what the competition was, how fish hippos like edged it all out to open for Fugazi, but they did. When you read articles about them at that time, like, you know, people writing in like the Omaha World Herald or whatever,

it sounds as though Nick always had an ambitious streak and I think may have just been you know the kind of guy who's going to move to L.A. when he's 18 and try to force his way into the scene and then move back to his hometown and kind of be that guy who went out and did it and I don't know my guess is that he

strongly talked his way onto that particular stage because it's not as though I mean I don't know what Fish Hippo sounded like but it's not as though the early 311 sounded like Fugazi so No. I sure did not. I'm pretty sure Ian McKay never bought an island, so it's not as though they're ideologically aligned either. Yeah, I don't know. Whatever it is, gorgeous stroke of luck. 311, as they're now known, they started to self-release music, right? And you can listen to this EP on YouTube. It is not available. It's not, you know, commercially available. Although, are some of the songs from these early releases on a compilation? I don't believe they're on the archive record, which is sort of their big, huge B-Sides package.

But they did for a while sell a record called the Omaha Sessions that had these sort of early, you know, from the, from the Unity LP and the, I think, the hydroponic LP. Right. Not available for streaming. This for CP is called downstairs. Let me tell you about 311. Not you, Marty. The listeners, you know about 311. From day one, this is a fucking earnest ass band.

They're earnest. Ernest. Ernest goes to Omaha, then Ernest goes to Los Angeles, then Ernest makes it big. The name of this record being downstairs is because they recorded it. That's right, downstairs in Nicholas Lofton Hexham's mother's house. It's not bad. I listened to it on an old YouTube. It's pretty like rudimentary, but it's way more punk.

Yeah. I mean, they were playing with a certain kind of. of energy then that I think, you know, I mean, they were like 18, 19, 20 year old guys trying to sound like- And peanut was like 16. Yeah, 16-year-old high school kid who's like finally getting to play with the big guys. You know, there's a certain swagger to it for sure. It sounds like the sound quality is awful and it's a bit of a mess to hear. But, you know, you can hear the germ of a real band in there for sure.

Sure. Which I think like it's kind of probably important that Nick was in high school jazz band and like this is kind of sort of from the beginning sort of serious about music in some ways. Yeah. Because they are, they are, I've seen, spoiler alert, I've seen 311 live many times. They're a very tight musical band. Yeah, for sure. Much like Red Hot Chili Peppers. They share that where like they're fucking airtight as musicians.

Total pros. Yeah. Producer Dylan has done me the service of listing out a bunch of like sort of milestones and releases that, precede 311's like L.A. era, which is like Fishbone had already put out truth and soul and reality of my surroundings and, you know, also the albums that preceded those, but obviously those were the big ones. And Mother's Milk had come out in 1989. So had Operation Ivy's energy.

I didn't find any evidence that they heard that, but I wouldn't be surprised because they were pretty into like obscure, like cool punk stuff. And they definitely were really into Fishbone. So TBD on that one. But just to say those are sort of like inputs that were coming. Plus obviously Beastie Boys. Yeah.

And in those days, they were playing a lot of shows with a lot of bands that never went out of the South Bay. But they also would end up playing, you know, they played a lot of shows with early versions of No Doubt and sort of the early sublime as well. So they were aware of a, or they were part of a real scene for at least, I don't know, two years maybe before they kind of became a national act.

Right, totally. Like post putting out their like first, I guess they put out four self-released records, right, before they moved to L.A. again, that was damn it, which was 300 cassettes. Featuring very importantly, the first guest appearance by S.A. Martinez, who was not in the band yet. The one essay. Yeah. Fuck the bullshit. Then Unity, 1991. This is where Tim Mahoney replaced Jim Watson on guitar.

And then the hydroponic EP, which is where S.A. Martinez, a Scorpio. Not surprisingly. Is he a Scorpio? Yes, born October 29th, 1969. Oh, good to know. I'm a Scorpio. You guys are spiritually connected.

You and S.A. Martinez. I knew it. He joins the crew and correct me if I'm wrong or tell me if I didn't. I'm missing something, but they're like the biggest band in Omaha by this time. Like 1992, because they've been like playing on. They play shows in Omaha. They open for every big act that comes through. I think I saw a flower where they opened for mashing pumpkins and like the 91.

So they're kind of like the go-to local band to like be on all the bills. And they're playing a ton of shows. And like you said, a bit of a career streak. So they're like, we're going to make it. We're going to Hollywood. Going to get a record deal. Do you know how they learned of the fandom of one Eddie offered? I don't.

That's such a good question. I know that somehow he ended up with, I'm guessing a copy of either Unity or Hydroponic or something. Right. Eddie offered, by the way, was what most well known as the producer for yes, the band, yes. Yeah, he produced the fragile record with Roundabout on it. I was just trying to think of like what would Eddie Offords, what would he have seen in 311 that was exciting? And I guess if you recorded that sick bass line in Roundabout by Yes, and then you heard Peanut, I guess I can see why you would go, oh, yeah, like a little slap bass?

Like I can get into a little slap bass. I'm not going to put that down. So maybe that's it. I don't know. Maybe he just had vision. He saw the hybridization of music coming, a swell of it that was coming in the 90s. And he was like on board. Yeah.

I mean, he wasn't the last classic rock. mega producer to decide to work with this particular band that does not necessarily sound like big heavy classic rock. So he is but the first. I mean, it really helped them out. From everything I read, like they were pushing their demo all around town. It wasn't really getting much traction. But the VP of Capricorn who did end up signing them, I read in an interview in the, what is it called the Omaha World Ledger? Yeah, I think that's right. No, the Omaha World News.

Omaha World Herald. The Omaha World Herald is basically like the 311 times. Like they cover all the comings and goings of 311. It's quite adorable and amazing. But I read an interview with him where he said that the co-sign of Eddie Offord like kind of sealed the deal for him. That made them very alluring to him. And that's how they got signed to Capone Records.

who at the time were the home of widespread panic. Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah, just, you know, like, what doesn't make sense about the idea of, like, widespread panic and 3-11 going together? You know what I mean? They ended up playing horror. They played the horde tour. They sure did, babe.

These dudes love that stuff. They fit in. I saw a really cute story about how they drove from Omaha to L.A. when they, like, went out to make it, and they stopped at Red Rocks and, like, did this little thing where they're like, we're going to play here one day. And then they did. They headline there a couple years later. That story feels so untrue.

And yet there's... If it was any other band, I would be like bullshit, but like not Ernest goes to camp over here. Like they are, Ernest goes to Red Rocks, a thousand percent. I believe them. It took them five years. And there's, I don't know if you saw it. Like, there's video of them playing Red Rocks the first time.

And they tell that story on stage. And it's like, that's the kind of thing that, like, The crowd loves to hear and people go crazy. Especially their crowd, yeah. It's very sweet. You could really picture them rolling up on red rocks, lighting subnogchampa, busting out a gorgeous joint, and just like making a little ritual, a manifestation. Totally.

Positive mental attitude. That's right. Okay. It's proof. The proof that it works. Absolutely. In 1992, the Lincoln Journal, which I believe is a Nebraska publication, put out an article that the headline was

Nebraska born 311 ready to rock the future of rap and gorgeous. Amazing. I love it. Music comes out February 1993 and is produced by Eddie Offord the album cover.

Horrifying. Yeah. Iconically horrifying in my opinion. What is that little man? It's an image from like I want to say a Depression era photo and it's it's a boy like somebody found

the original image on Reddit obviously and it's like a little boy was a mistake it was very important that that be tracked down and they did it and it's just like a little kid wearing a hood and he you know it's probably taken like in the 30s and some very very bad neighborhood and

they cut it out and made him look like I don't know like he's supposed to be like a cool little kid like in the way that they've treated the image and he's you know he's just chilling atop a a field of poppies and I guess those aren't poppies and then just sunflowers. He literally looks like

if Gollum hung out at Zebulon. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. Sorry, that's a regional joke but like But it's a really good regional joke. That's what he looks like. Go ahead and give it at Google. Also, producer Dylan points out that calling your first album music is

Chef's Kiss. Yeah, it's very bold. I mean I think Nick has said that the reason they called it music is because there's like a lot of different kinds of music on there Ernest goes to put out their first record Yeah he's not wrong

He's not wrong There's at least three kinds Show me the lie Yeah So there's only five tracks on here That Worn actually included on those Independent releases which are Visit Paradise hydroponic

My Stony Baby and Fat Chants But apparently all the songs that were previously released and then on here were altered in some way for those heads that really need to know that. Also a musical thing that once again I say without knowing what it means is that the four songs of hydroponic that are on here, welcome, freak out, plane, and Nick's hex were all tuned down one half step. Oh.

So make them a bit darker, a bit sadder. Yeah, a bit sadder. Yeah. what song do you want to play off of this initial real release of 311 to just set the tone? I would like to play the song Visit. Visit is a great little portrait of the things that they were trying to do in their very, very earliest stage. The guitars are kind of poorly recorded. They sound kind of like they're coming through a phone speaker, even though you couldn't have done that in 1993. But they're this kind of like, you know, it's like a kind of heavy rock thing for most of the main. thrust of the song. You've got a good rap from Nick. Well, excuse me, you've got a rap from Nick. I don't

know if it's necessarily one of his good ones. The future of rap music. And, you know, the verses are kind of this charging, intense, like, thing that they would come to be known for a bit later. But then the chorus is quite pretty. Like, it's still a heavy song, but it's got this beautiful harmony vocal from essay. And then the song ends with this kind of lovely sort of semi-reggae, late-seventh- 70's Grateful Dead style jam that I think actually holds up really well and I always really enjoy hearing. So it's a nice, it's sort of like a 3-11 primer. Okay. You really sold it. Let's hear. Visit. You are listening to a music and talk episode where full songs and talk segments live together

in gorgeous harmony only on Spotify. Guess what? You can also create your own music and talk show for free with Inker, Spotify's podcasting platform. Get started at anchor.fm slash music and talk. That's anchor.com slash music and talk. That was visit Marty. I want to visit the world. So now I visit the world with my time on this world. Yeah.

Beautiful. I guess now would be a great time to talk about Nick Hexham as a lyricist. As a poet, if you will. Yeah. You know, if you will. Some might. He is not a great lyricist. Okay. Let me push back on that. Okay, sure. He is simply an uncomplicated lyricist.

And maybe we've just been brainwashed into thinking that we need like so much metaphor and so much opacity. And maybe sometimes you just, 311 is the music of I just want to vibe, babe. Sometimes when I'm vibing, I don't have to like think too hard. I mean, yeah, for sure. I look, I get that. me that. I've been there. I'm there often. And it is true that I think that is kind of where he's coming from for the most part.

But I want to visit the world with my time on this world, so I visit the world. It's not great. It doesn't sound super great. It doesn't read super great on the page. But I think that he has a really strong sense of melody, which is his best asset. I think as he as he kind of ages as a writer, he learns how to do, he learns how to make his lyrics do something a little bit better. And then in a certain point, he loses that ability in a way that can be at

times, like, wildly upsetting. We're going to go on a journey through the lyrics of 3-11. We're going to visit the world because we want to visit the world. Listen, in the great tradition of Red Hawk Chili peppers. is that the main part of what we come to 311 for? I would argue no. I would argue no at this time. At the music era, no. But I do think that as we kind of go through,

we'll see that especially in the last 15-ish years, that is exactly what people go to 3-11 for. Whether they should or not is another discussion. But that is very much going to be a thing. Okay. Well, while we're still here in this area, might I direct our attention to the song Plain? Yes.

I feel like this is the anthem of smooth brain. Literally, the chorus is Tabla Rosa is my brain. Don't mean to bug or drive you insane. Don't have to guess just what I'm saying. If I had a point, I'd say it plain. Yeah. He's got no point and that's fine.

I love it. Nod your head to this. I am, babe. Yeah. What else? on here. That is really good. Freak Out is really good, I think.

Yeah, Freakout's a cool songs that kind of has that little James Brown kind of guitar intro. You can sort of hear a little chicken scratch in there. Yeah. One of the things I think they do really well in this record is just kind of allowing Tim Mahoney's guitar to sort of set

the pace for what they're doing. And I think, especially in a song like Nick's Hex or My Stony Baby, which are both a little bit more laid back songs, he'll kind of get into a groove that makes it sound a little bit like a meter's song but Chad Sexton sort of shuffles the drums underneath it in a way that's very different

from the way the meter's rhythm section would play. You can't really dance to it in the way you could dance to the meters but it does give it a bit of an interesting rhythmic tension, I think. Rhythmic tension. Okay. Me, smooth-brained about things like rhythmic tension,

but I believe you. One day I'll attend Juilliard and then I'll be better equipped to do this podcast. But I don't know anything about music. I only know about vibes. Luckily, for me, 311's only about vibes. Yeah, this album's both. Exactly.

I want to read you the press release from Capricorn Records about this album. Are you ready? I'm so ready. Music. It's the best way to describe 311's unorthodox, unconventional debut album of the same name. So like you said. One of the freshest most daring young bands in modern music,

311 incorporates a full range of styles to accomplish the seemingly impossible a rapping, rocking reggae rhythmic album with a style and substance decidedly their own. Nobody'd done it before. I was going to say, I feel like this is a bit of bad brains and fishbone erasure, a bit of red hot chili peppers erasure,

but I'll allow it. Yeah, I mean, check your head had come out a year before, but sure. But not on Capricorn. Not on Capricorn, exactly. Soon cake will come out on Capricorn, but that's true. That's true.

Fuel burning fast on an empty tank. Do You Write was the single that Capricorn put out? I actually really love Do You Write? Yeah. This album, I think it's such a good song. It is. I'm free. It's a stare at the sea in a knock of me.

It got alt radio play, namely by one Tammy Heidi on K-Rock. She was like, that's a band called 311. They're from Omaha. We've got to all move to Omaha so we can. sound like that band. It was like, yes. Shout out Tammy Heidi. I always thought she was so cool.

I wonder what she's doing now to find her. I serve the music. I serve out the platters that matter. But obviously, the number one best song on this album is Mystonie Baby. You agree. Yeah, I absolutely do agree. It's either My Stony Baby or it's Plain. I think Plain is a great song, but only because I'm a huge sucker for a Wa pedal.

And I love the Waga. guitar in plain, but I think my stony baby is the most well-constructed song and the most compelling song, for sure. And it's the first 3-11 love song. That's true. In a great succession of coming 311 songs that I really love. Let's hear My Stony Baby. That was my Stony baby, a gorgeous song, despite the constant disagreement of subject and verb. I think it's so charming that Nick is writing about this presumably this woman that he is somehow romantically entwined with and he could have called her like my beautiful baby or like my darling baby and he went with like my stony baby and I think it makes me think of like

you know dazed and confused the the stoner couple I don't remember either the character's name has been too long since I've seen it but I I love that that's like that was to him like the important thing to highlight about this particular person was that like she was pretty stony, you know? Yeah, we haven't mentioned besides being increasingly earnest 311 is also huge proponents of marijuana smoking. Huge. Although I think they wouldn't say that they encourage marijuana smoking. I believe they're just they're personally big fans of the marijuana smoking lifestyle. Yes, very much so.

As my mom put it in the mid-90s, she heard that you could scrape the resin off their teeth and get high. Your mom knew what resin was? Yeah, my mom knew what resin was. Damn. She was a baby boomer. She knew she grew up at the right time. Your mom's hip.

My dad called it grass. Grass, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I think I read that they didn't really have a label support for a tour. But, you know, this is a band that is their bread and butter from day. one is playing live and touring and going around the country a thousand times and building an audience. So they decide to promote music, music in general, but also their own music from the album

music. Through a self-financed tour, they borrow a rundown RV from Chad Sexton's father. And then, on July 24, 1993, as they're passing through Bois to Arc, Missouri, is that you say that? I guess. On the way to Kansas City, the gas tank ignites, and the whole thing, I'm not laughing because it's not funny, but it's just crazy. The whole thing catches on fire and everything is destroyed. The van, all their equipment, their gear, all their personal belongings. And then they still played the next night. They played the next night.

Yeah, they borrowed gear. Yeah, they had to leap through the literal flames. Truly the Shadrach, Mishak and Abednego, of Rap Rock. Without a doubt. And what did Nick Hexham say? We're definitely so blessed, and we always keep that in mind. We like to keep an attitude of gratitude going. I fucking love this.

This is the vibe, babe. Gratitude list makers of the world stand up. I personally do it one every fucking morning. This morning, it included the TV show Syke and also soft-boiled eggs, amongst other things. I would have to imagine that that was like a truly terrifying and traumatic experience. Yeah, I can't imagine. I guess they were so young. Maybe it's like they're very resilient, but...

Yeah, I mean, you know, they were probably pretty high. So it's like, you know... Speculation, but... Yeah. I mean, if three of my T-shirts caught fire, I would sob hysterically for days. I would be inconsolable. I would have to take to bed.

Yeah. I found this funny interview they did with Hits magazine after the release of music, and the person was like, Omaha seems like an unlikely place to spawn a band with your diversity. influences. And Nick is like, not really. Records stores there carry everything that record stores here carry.

And there are rap and reggae bands in Omaha. It's just a miniature LA, really. Just a miniature L.A. He said that. And as I said, it's a little mecca part of a global village. Communications and MTV reach everywhere. Here's the thing. They're not wrong. I don't think they were trying to be cunty, but it's kind of a gorgeous cunty response to them to be like, how deep down in Omaha, could you possibly? And they're like, we have records. records stores. MTV does broadcast here. Yeah. Yeah. We're able to access other music from other times and use it as influences.

Yeah. I think they were being sincere, but it is funny how it sort of shuts him down. They were definitely being sincere, but... So there's like very few reviews of the first album in like mainstream publications, but New York Review of Records did review it. They said on first listen, 311 may seem like a cloning of the chili peppers punk funk, but their uniqueness emerges. The playing is so tight you could set an atomic clock to it. The band jumps from genre to genre effortlessly, often within the same song.

The most engaging element is the blending of reggae and calypso. Calypso? I don't know, babe. I was going to ask you. I was going to ask you to point me towards the calypso. Ain't none calypso there. I think there's a decent amount of funk, mostly coming through, mostly coming through the guitars.

A lot of the stuff that Mahoney is doing, especially on music, is very, you know, like I said, like the meters I referenced, James Brown, that's sort of like, you know, that's that particular era of funk. It's just not the same type of funk that the chili peppers and those guys were picking up on. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. There's no sense that they have ever heard Parliament. Like, you have no idea of that from those records. They have referenced Nat King Cole. Do you hear that? They say it many times that a huge... Really? That was Nat King Cole, yes.

Okay. I mean, sure. My sony baby? I can see that maybe being from... They're like, I don't know, sort of like their jazz band training, just maybe like loving very classical structure of music and then, I don't know, subverting it. I do think, though, that there is like a huge...

Even though, like, it's clear that the Chile is... Peppers and Fishbone especially were very influential on what they were trying to do. I was thinking about that while we were listening to My Stony Baby and thinking of how, like, I don't think either of those bands could write a song like My Stony Baby. Maybe you could kind of sort of point to like Pretty Little Ditty by the Chili Peppers as, you know, kind of sort of. Pretty Little Ditty, famously sampled by Crazy Town for the song Butterfly. Shout out Shifty Shelfok.

If you're listening. Shout out shit to Shell Shock. Come my lady. Come, come my lady. Give a butterfly. Sugar, baby. I think you're wrong. I think John Frashton could write any goddamn song who would ever want.

But I just don't think it's maybe in his vibe to write a song. Yeah, sure, sure. I just feel like the chili peppers stuff at that time was more hard-edged. It was more about playing sort of in front of the beat, right? Like, it's, I almost hate to use this kind of language. But it feels like that music is so coked up almost. like it's so fast. Well, it's more punk.

Yeah. To your point, it's more punk. Yeah, thank you. Yeah. I'm, again, just riffing. But I can almost see that being like 311 did sort of like petri dish appear, you know, out of Omaha. They weren't in a scene, right?

It's not like there was a bunch of other bands like that or or punk or whatever. Like, again, I don't know. It wasn't there. But it's red hot chili peppers really came up in a scene in like a punk scene. in like a punk scene, playing with punk bands. And like you can kind of understand how that is really forward in their music. Whereas like 3-level, just smoking a bunch of weed. Yeah.

I'll listening to some records. But doing with it what they would. Yeah. I mean, they needed their music to make sense in front of whatever the big radio band was that was rolling through Omaha. Right. Smashing Pumpkins. Yeah. The scene, I believe this is the Cleveland scene at the time.

Says 3-11 follow the path of the Red Hot Chili Peppers and gangster rappers plowed for a decade. 3-11 walked right in and claimed it as their own. Instead of expending their creative energy crafting a new sound, they spent their talent perfecting an old one. Now they are destined to rule the punk-funk metal jams. These boys are younger, they're cooler, and they're just as angry.

Bare-chested and baggy jeans and big belts, boxer waistbands in full view. This is a gang with no attitude to spare. Angry. This was like lightly pornographic for just me personally. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. There was like a lot of male gays in that. A lot of male gays. Yeah, angry, I don't know, but that comes up a lot, like that they're sort of aggressive, their music sort of aggressive. Yeah, I wonder if that's just sort of a relic of the time though where people didn't really know how to understand aggressive music that wasn't angry. You know, like the signifier of angry is what they're hearing when they hear, you know, a guitar

played loudly and with a lot of distortion. Right. I guess so. Yeah. And this is like, you know, the tail end of grunge too. So they're probably like they had assigned anger to grunge as well. Yeah. Even though it has nothing to do with grunge. But I'm just talking timing-wise, you know, we're still, we're still experiencing the tail end of that movement.

Yeah. Several times they are compared to body count. Body count. Body count. Once in the scene thing. And then once in our friends, the Omaha, World Herald, they say the only band with a comparable style is Ice T's body count, although 311 has created a less aggressive style. The only band like 311 is body count. Clearly people just did

not know what to make of a band that was in many ways, you know, super original in their blend of styles. Like they didn't have these easy comparison points. So there were just these wild stretches being made by the press. I mean, this is sort of a I'm going to me of that, you know, the perennial tweet of I'm getting a lot of boss baby vibes from this. Like, it's very like, well, I've heard body count and they had a rap and guitars. I'm getting a lot of body count vibes from this 311 record. Totally. Totally.

I mean, God bless the Omaha World Herald. We have a lot of Omaha World Herald ahead of us. Okay. So the next album comes out in 94, just a year later. 94 in music. The year that sublimes Robin the Hood comes out Mighty Mighty Boss Tones question the answers. Is that that year as well?

That sounds right. I guess the main thing to say about music in 94 is that that's the year that people started to get a little grunge fatigue, I think, which is why I know we're a broken record on the show, which is why Green Days Duky broke through so strongly. It was like brighter and more fun and stuff. It's like people were kind of looking for that.

This is the year they put out grassroots. Yeah. Still produced by Eddie Offord. Yeah. They recorded it at their new home studio, which is just in their house that they shared in Van Nuys. Talk to me about grassroots. I'm going to go as far as to say that I think grassroots is a great record.

I know that that feels extremely bold. No, I love grassroots. Me personally, I love grassroots. They've expressed, like, feeling like it was too dark in later years, which is a hilarious thing to say about a record where S. where S.A. Martinez makes fart noises with his mouth at one point. Oh, where there's a song called Nut Symptom. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, it's dark, but not in the way that they necessarily understand it to be. Right, right. But I think they suddenly have a lot of ideas, a lot of musical ideas. They're going to suddenly try out a lot of different stuff. And honestly, it just sounds a lot better. Like, I think the production is a lot crisper. The guitars don't sound nearly as tinny. they give the band a little bit of room to stretch

in a way that they didn't necessarily on music. The arrangements are a little bit more ambitious. You know, you have a song like Grassroots, the title track, which moves through five or six different parts. Applied Science has the drum solo in it that eventually kind of becomes an albatross for them, but at that time is like pretty cool and pretty exciting. There's some really sharp pop songwriting on the record.

I think the opening track Homebrew I love that song It's a great song And it's got a truly brilliant chorus Like the big triumphant Power chords Just sort of ringing Fourth of July

With Lucy in the sky We've all been there, babe Everybody's been there And like you know We remember pine trees And the coat of many colors Absolutely It'll never be the same

It'll never be the same I was 19 I'd do anything I also would do anything When I was 19 It's such a good song It is truly like a timeless thing. Like I think, you know, 19 years old is when, that's the chorus of the song is I was 19. I'd do anything shit like that now scares me, but I'd like to do it again.

That's like, that's an interesting feeling, right? To think of like, when I was 19 years old, I was like pretty willing to like take a bunch of LSD or maybe in my case, mushrooms or something, right? And now like I'm 37. I'm probably not going to do that. But I understand. Nick Hexum was 24, though. He was, yeah, five years. It took us a little longer.

me a little longer. I was like, okay, I'm 39, closing it on 40, maybe I'll think twice. I just need to read you. I'm obsessed with the genius annotations in general in life, but this particular song, right on the I was 19, I'd do anything. It just says, when you're younger, your inhibitions are looser. As he got older, he thinks twice before dropping acid, but deep inside, the desire is there. Honestly, here's where he gives a little advice. Honestly, he'll probably enjoy the experience more now that his thoughts and self-awareness are more formative. Please show to Nick. I love these people that take the time to do this.

I literally love them. Why don't we hear Homebrew? Yeah, let's do it. This is Homebrew. That was Homebrew. I must say, I'm very comforted by Nick Hexon's singing voice, and I can't explain why. I mean, is it like the timbre of his voice,

or is it just a familiarity thing? I don't know what tamper means. You're literally speaking to a moron, and you should understand you're using, your fancy music language. Is it like the tone or like his, his general manner or? I think it's just because it's like comforting and familiar.

It's the same reason I love Anthony Kedis's voice, you know? Also, does Nick Hexom use like 6 million reverb on his vocals? Is that why it sounds like that? Okay, yeah. There's just like something about that much reverb, which also lends itself to smooth brain listening. Do you know what I mean?

Absolutely. And I'm not kidding when I say that, I think that's one of my very, very, very favorite things about this band. I think the way that's the way that's, they process both Nick and essays vocals, especially on the first four or five records, you know, when they are putting a ton of reverb and a ton of chorus

and, you know, occasionally like delays on there. It's an amazing thing. And a lot of musicians who were in that world were kind of treating the vocals in a lot drier of a way. And I don't know. I mean, maybe it's a smooth brain thing. I don't know.

But it feels nice. Have you heard und doctored Dick Hexham singing vocals. Oh, God, no. It's never even, it's never occurred to me to, like, seek such a thing out. I think I have heard it. He made a cameo for someone I know, and it's just him in the acoustic guitar.

He sounds great. Yeah. I guess that's true. I've seen him do, like, a turnstile song on his acoustic guitar, and it was fine. Okay, yes, that cover is on his Instagram, which, by the way, I am so fucking into Nick Hexom's Instagram presence. Overall, it is just all posy vibes, family photos, workout tips, him playing songs on the guitar, him doing pushups, whatever.

He's an absolute king. All PMA, all vibes. Also, the turnstall thing is so fucking cute. He clearly loves them so much. Me and producer Dylan actually saw him at the turnstall show recently, and he was on stage, babe, singing every single song, holding his merch, videotaping them. It was adorable. It really makes perfect sense as Turnstile is a goddamn gorgeous, beautiful band.

And spiritually, they are obviously in the lineage of 311 for sure. And I will fight anyone who disagrees. Again, this album is called grassroots. Because, as Nick Hexam said, what helped us out in the beginning was people turning their friends onto us. We didn't get a lot of help in the music industry as a whole. It was all done through grassroots means, which is why we called our second album that. We were able to grow as a band because people shared us with others, which is totally true. and kind of a thing about 3-11 that is like the lasting and enduring thing, right?

It's like while they did try to go to Hollywood to quote-unquote make it, I think they were always just soldiering on in their own lane regardless. Like I don't know if that was like their chosen path to go on, but that's the path they ended up going on. And it worked for them. I said this off mic before you joined that this band is not. is similar to the Grateful Dead. In the way they've,

they built their career, I say this as a person who's only ever heard one Grateful Dead song, Sublime's cover of Scarlet Begunnius. Sure, of course. Producer Johnson's, I'm asking for it. This whole show is me asking for it.

But it's just true. I do think that there is like sort of, you could draw a parallel between like, were the Grateful Dead cool? No. In their like time? Exactly. No, not a bit.

It's not that we thought this was cool at the time. We just really liked it. There's a slight distinction. I will point out that Nick Hexham is extremely good-looking, which I don't think hurt their cause. No. If anything, he's better looking now than he was when he was... He's an absolute gorgeous male model.

I don't understand how he's aged this way. We should all be so lucky. We should be half as lucky. drop your skincare routine, babe. He did do an article with men's health where he did drop

his workout routine and he leads workouts on YouTube too. I love him. Should we hear one more song off this album? I agree with you.

I think it's a really good album. And I think 8.16 a.m. is a really beautiful song. That's exactly the song I was going to suggest. I love 8.16 a.m. Okay, cool.

This is 8.16 a.m. That was 816 a.m. A.m. A. Great song. It's a beautiful song. Yeah. Listen, producer Dylan, you specifically, but also everyone else listening,

if you weren't wearing reef sandals on your way to class, wearing your puka shell necklace and just like living the dream, maybe this music doesn't make sense to you. If you didn't smoke weed for the first time out of a Coca-Cola can or an apple, then maybe this isn't the music for you, but it is the music for me. I've always really loved the way he opens. every verse with that line, Stranger Flowers yet. I think that's a really

beautiful little phrase, which he lifted from, I think, from on the road. It's definitely a caroac line. Of course. Every boy who goes to high school or college has read on the road and has somehow absorbed some part of it and then regurgitated it into the world and maybe not

the best way. He took the tiniest little three-word phrase, but it is a really great phrase. And I love the way that he's using it there. And oddly, he'll as well, when we talk about transistor, we'll talk about stealing happy hours, which is a song where he quotes Charles Bukowski, who is less

obvious of an influence on 311. My well-read king. So after grassroots comes out, first thing I must point out is the Omaha World Herald is fucking on it, babe, with the goss. Good. First of all, they wrote about 311, about 14 times between 93 and

94. That's not a made-up number. I counted. It's 14 times. So they came on with the goss. The relationship between former Omaha, which is like such a diss. Like, oh, they don't live here anymore. Alternative rap, funk band 311 and its Capricorn record label apparently has soured in recent months.

The band's second album could be its last for the Nashville-based company. Then they quote Peanut. If things don't improve on this album, they're going to let us go. He says in a phone interview Wednesday night from Van Nuys, California, we're going to see what happened. Peanut, babe, what are you doing? What are you doing giving the Omaha World Herald interview about your beef with your label? Does the Omaha World Herald, do they quote him as Aaron Wills or do they quote him as peanut?

Aaron quotations peanut wills. Fantastic. The whole name. Then the next week they're back with Morgas. An executive with Nashville-Vace Capricorn Records downplays comments by a member of former Omaha Group 311. The dedication to saying former Omaha Group 311, gorgeous. Yeah, we like them enough to write about them, but not enough to continue to claim them. We do not claim them anyway.

who last week suggested the label had recently slowed in its support of the alternative funk rap quintet. I have no misgivings about the job we've done, says Don Schmitzorl, Capricorn's vice president and general manager. I feel nothing but positive. What is Don Schmitzrell doing giving an interview to the Omaha World Herald? And then Nick Hexham weighs in. I would say right now that there is total support and optimism from Capricorn. We're totally happy with the support from the record company. I would see our future is less shaking than ever

and this is the best relationship we've had with the record company, which sounds like it was made under duress. Yeah, that's a very Nick Hex, I'm quote. There's a fully a gun point in his head by Don Schmitzroll. Yeah. Just kidding.

Don Schmitzroll did not point out of gun. I'm making a joke. Nick is very good at putting the sort of proper bright, not bright, that seems rude, but he's good at putting that sort of like, hey, actually things are pretty good. And like, we're feeling pretty posy about this right now, spin on things.

King of PMA. Peanut does tend to be the one to say like, yo, it's not super, super great. So they were playing to type even in 94. I mean, Peanut is like 20 years old. So he should just not have been allowed to get on the phone with any media outlet. There is a writer at the L.A. Times,

I think his name is Steve Appleford. He starts covering them in the beginning. He's like a big fan. And he writes about them a bunch of times with L.A. Times. But he writes like a big profile about them in 94. which was kind of cool. The Baltimore Sun reviewed this album. They said,

even though 311 covers much of the same stylistic ground occupied by the bed hot chili peppers and the Beastie Boys, there's nothing secondhand about the sound of grassroots. For one thing, 311 has developed a more natural fusion of rock and rhyme than either the Beasties or Chili Peppers so that the wrapped and sung segments coexist in their songs without seeming crowded together. For another, there's jazziness 311's playing

that lets songs like 860 a.m. swing in ways the other bands can never manage. I would agree with pretty much everything you just read back. I think there is a sort of ease to 3-11's music that doesn't exist in that era, especially of the chili peppers. Totally. And those bands, I think a lot of that comes from 3-11's genuine devotion to dance hall music into 80s Jamaican music generally. Right. I think you can kind of look at what Nick and S.A. are doing as kind of like what's called like a combination in dance hall, which is like when the singer and the DJ trade off and they go against one another.

they go together and the vocals kind of take on this more dynamic element, which is something that that is a huge part of what their sound is at that time. It grounds them in that way a little bit, I think. Totally. I mean, I think this person made good points except for the fact that the Beastie Boys rap and the Chili Peppers, I mean, you could argue that Anthony Cadiz is sometimes rapping, but for the most part, Anthony Cadiz is not a rapper singing and there is not another rapper in the band. So they're not really trying to blend rapping and singing either one of them. But okay, the rest of it, I'll give it to you. There is like a swing and a vibe in this era 311 that in this era of red hot chili

peppers. I don't know, man. What are we? 94. 94? I mean, blood sugar sex magic has come out. I think even One Hot Minute has maybe come out or is about to come out. One Hot Minute was 95.

Ill communication would have just come out to. So, I don't know. They have a swing too. Whatever, I'm not going to argue. It's not, you can't, you don't have to have one or the other. You can exist in a world where you like both the Red Hunchley Peppers and 311. To your point, there's a library level archiving of pieces about them starting back in 1988 on their website.

There's a really funny Lincoln, Nebraska Star Journal piece sort of dissing on the New York Times for ignoring the Omaha scene. I guess this is around the time the New York Times put out like a big piece about like the regional scenes. Yeah. And they overlooked Omaha. I like that Lincoln felt the need to stand up for the, their stately neighbor in Omaha.

Maybe there's just nothing happening in Lincoln. I don't know. I don't know what went on in Lincoln, babe. I wasn't there. Just Husker football. Corn Huskers, for those of you at home. Okay, so to your point, between 93 and 94, 311, plays 233 shows, which is a lot in one year.

And they're playing with people like Oingo Boingo, no doubt, sublime, the mighty boss tones, and a lot with cake because they're label mates. We refer to the old days as the chicken and light beer only days. So back in the chicken and light beer only days, we were just happy to be playing shows. Okay, love it. How are they putting out so many albums? One a year, every year.

It's 95. We're back with the Blue Album. They're doing a lot of writing on the road, I think. Yeah, they must be. Yeah. How else could they? They're on the road 233 days of the 365, unless they just crammed all the writing in on the other, you know, 100 days.

The Blue Album is probably where I was introduced to 311. How about you? Same. And probably most people. Yeah, I think so. They came out in 95. I was in the fifth grade when it came out, but I was in sixth grade when Down was released as a single. And it was the third single taken off the record. I think Don't Stay Home had done pretty well. And then all mixed up had done a little better than that. But I don't think they were ready for Down to become the kind of buzzbin smash that it became. And so by the time the record peaked, it was a full, I think, 13 months after it was released is when it reached its highest point in the charts. And yeah. So I was in sixth grade. and it was very, very much the talk of the school bus in Lafayette, Louisiana, believe me. They really wanted to talk about Down Down.

Everyone to talk about it. I think what's amazing about that song, too, is that, like, they're already doing crowd service in 1995. It's a song thanking fans for having brought them to that point. So they got through their first two records, and then they were like, well, we want to, we want to give thanks to the fans. And so that's really what the song Down is about, is about giving that shout out to the people who had gotten into that point. And if you've seen 311 Live, which I know you have,

basically from 96 until, you know, I saw them in Irvine last summer. And every time they play down, Nick Hexham introduces it as being for all the old school fans in the house, which is a weird thing to say about your very, very biggest single. But, you know, but that is what the song's about. It is. I bet you light up when we start the show. I always do. One of essays lines. But you light up when we start show. I loved this song. I did not know what they were saying. You could not at that time Google lyrics.

So I was just singing along whatever words came to my mind. Let's play it. Everyone's waiting for it. They want it. Everyone wants down. Let's give them down. This is down. That was down a goddamn gorgeous, beautiful song if I've ever heard one.

It's your mix. It's your mix. Congratulations. This album was produced by Ron Saint-Germont. It might be St. Germain. I don't know, but I'm just putting a little respect on his name and saying Saint-Germain. That's good. who had produced

dirty boots and goo for Sonic Youth and also worked with a bunch of other bands including bad brains Buffalo Tom Sound Garden U-2

like kind of a big heavy hitter I don't know how that played into the production of this album what do you think? One of the things

that I love about this record actually is the production I think the way the guitars sound on down the sort of like really, really rich, really heavy. There's a lot of wah built into that really heavy riff in down,

which is sort of what makes it feel... If you pull that wah sound out of there, it's probably going to feel more like a cake song, actually. But with that wah, it makes an almost sort of wavery, you know, almost like mildly underwater type feeling that I think sounds really, really great. And I think throughout the record, St. Germain does a really great job of making those guitars and making everything sound just like strong and powerful

without sounding overwhelming or, you know, super muscular. Yeah. 3-11 never comes across as muscular. It's always, it's aggressive without that muscular thing for lack of a better word. Totally. They're not toxic masculine. No. I think this album is clearly better produced.

no shade to Mr. Yes. I also think that Ron Saint-Germal got lucky because there's tighter pop songs on this album too. Like, don't stay home. I'm kind of surprised it didn't get bigger. I mean, it did okay. I think it hit number 29 on the modern rock tracks chart when it came out. I guess down is a little more aggressive, which at the time was a little more palatable. And don't stay home is...

a little more head shop music, you know, which wasn't as popular at the time. I wonder if literally if Don't Stay Home hadn't started with a drum fill, you know, as it starts off with that boom, boom, ba, ba, bab, and you get life could slip. Exactly. Sorry, where we're not doing that? I mean, we can start it over. I can count you in if you want. But, you know, it starts with that drum fill.

I can't think of any other, I'll top of my head any other pop songs that start with just a plain drum fill. and down begins with like a very heavy loud guitar thing. Which was, again, very of the time. Yeah. Like we're talking mid-90s like you want to, no-no-no-no-no-no. Yes. Like this is the time of Bush and whatever, a million other all-rock bands that are doing this.

Well, we are hearing Don't Stay Home. I won't sing it, but I have to because this is one of my favorite songs. You should sing it. No, no. Let's let Nicholas Lopton hex him. take it away. Okay. This is don't stay home. That was... Whoa. That's right. Don't stay home. Goddamn gorgeous, beautiful song. When you always stay in self-incarceration, I think it's such a shame.

Drag me straight to hell. This song is about me in my mid to late 30s. Yes, stay home. So many of 311 songs are like that, where it is this very, this great, strong, positive message. At this time, they were still able to present. present it in a very melodic and musical way. And all mixed up, the idea of, you know, you have to bet on yourself because that's your best bet. You have to trust your instincts. Like, this is a record of advice, you know.

A lot of it is just like, hey, here's some stuff I've learned, you know. In Hive, Nick says in 1989, it was cocaine and Jim Beam, and now it's 95, I'm Jensing. Actually, that's a misdirected hostility. That's not in Hive. Yes, that's a misdirected hostility. Listen, by this album, This is the live-lap-love of the head shop.

This is like live-lap-love signage that you would sell at a place that is not a home goods, but rather a head shop that sells Nagchampa and perhaps some imported patchwork pants that maybe came from India. And I'm totally here for it. Yeah. I mean, I think you're right, but I've never understood why that is. because we don't associate head shops with like distorted guitars, right? And you don't think of anything that descends from punk as playing in a head shop.

But that is a huge part of this music. And you see like in their home videos that they released in the 90s, which are both called in large to show to tail parts one and two. You see that like a lot of their crowd are sort of the guys in the patchwork pants and, you know, people with... Burners. Yeah, totally. And people with, like, not only like a ball chain necklace,

but like a ball chain necklace, like, with hemp interwoven between the balls, which I- 1 million thousand percent. Absolutely had one of those, and it was really, really sick, and I wish I still had it. Like... I think you could probably buy one on Etsy. That's a really good point.

With, maybe with, like, a little, like, a clay mushroom that comes down from it. Oh, yeah. It's like, that's the vibe. Yeah, my hemp necklace had, like, colored beads in it. It was very cool. Like hand blown? Yeah, very cool. Handblown for sure.

I can't believe it's surprising that we were both into 3-11. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, I mean, even the down video, which all is forever burn into my brain because of Nick Hexham's like, you know, floating head. But also it's like full of like Buddhas and like it's so that era of the 90s. Well, and even the you already know. You know, even like the like the inlay of the CD like when you pop. the CD out of the tray. The thing behind it is like that classic drawing of like an alien face or whatever. That's right. All of the iconography of the 90s is present here. Yeah. And it's, you know,

it was like the era of like alien workshop skateboards and. I had that one. Yeah, I did too. I still have it. It's in the garage. I absolutely bought an alien workshop skateboard because of this record. Oh, I can't say that's why I did it. But you were from Southern California. So I think you That's where we diverge back. You were from the culture. That's right. I was. I was this before this album came out. I bought it. But you're right. It's getting very much like, how do we channel our philosophy and vibe into our music?

And that's kind of, you know, what they're doing here. There's also like, you know, there's Hive is a great song, kind of a jam. Loco is the, that's the trip. The Shrooms Fantastic. That's right. Speaking of the head shop. Yeah. And then, you know, there's like a very political song.

Guns in parentheses are for Pussy. Indeed. We believe people carrying guns, especially young males are pussies. This is a Nick Hexam giving an interview about it. They're giving in to fear. It takes a strong person to hold your head high without one. I mean, that's... I mean, again, good for you, Nick Hexham.

Offspring had put out, keep them separated. You got to keep them separated. And that's also an anti-gun song. It's a little more metaphor. A little more subtle. Yeah, but still, I think it's cool. Yeah. They did a song called Guns or Her Pussies.

Yeah, and it was, you know, as a band who is from Nebraska, you know, which is very much hunting country and is very much Midwestern. And I'm, you know, being from Louisiana, like, it's also part of that culture as well. Like, that was a bold thing to put on a record that was also going to, that they were going to shoot for millions of sales on, you know? I mean, notably, like, they went a lot of. long time without playing that song. I want to say they played it maybe once or twice in

2020 or 2021, but they really don't play that song very much now that their fan base is largely older and skews a touch more conservative and that kind of thing. But they do, but it is there in the catalog and it is a great song. It's very interesting.

Very interesting. I'm really fascinated by how diverse their taste were in terms of consumption of music. And we sort of talked about it earlier. Like as teens and early on in there being a band, they were super into punk.

They were super into like, like you said, reggae, dance hall. They were super into, I mean, I think Chad Saxon said he loved yes. Like it was one of his favorite bands, which is why he was so excited about Eddie offered. Offered, yeah. There's like a little entertainment weekly blurb about them around this album. And one of the questions they ask is like,

what albums never leave the tape player on? the bus and the list of albums is so cool it's like chemical brothers exit planet dust trickies maxing k u2's octune baby which i love youtube's octo baby to me is the best you two album and joan armatrading's track record well people want to hate on three eleven but you know i think people don't like earnestness yeah it's a turn off you know and it's a turn off you know and especially in the 90s when it was literally basically illegal, to be honest. Like, I understand why the critics were not so down, down, if you will. The culture had changed a lot and then some, so.

Yeah. But Rolling Stone, I must. I have to read you this Rolling Stone review, please. Not all funk metal sucks as 311 are out to prove. An Omaha raised LA-based quintet with gnarly grooves galore. 311's third self-titled effort is a believable pastiche of slick chops, pop panache, and metal mayhem, which seems to include just a little bit for every listener. You personally don't totally hear the metal, but thanks to yet another outstanding effort from producer Renssela-Germont,

an NYC dance for mixologist, best known in the rock world for his work with bad brains, living color, and sound garden, 311 is fat, P-H-A-T, without trying to disown their white roots. lead vocalist Nick Hexham bumps and grinds his way through 14 tracks that even the Red Hot Jelly Pepper wins over. Highlights of this pleasant performance

include guns are for pussies and misdirected hostility, but you'll have to decide for yourself. But the kicker is, don't call 911, 311 is on its way. Wow. That was printed in Rolling Stone magazine?

That's in Rolling Stone magazine printed up. Wow. The word fact. Somebody probably got paid $85 to write that in 1995 money. But that is an overwhelmingly positive review. Yeah, for sure.

I mean, New York Times wrote about a 3-11 show. John Perelis, the God, went to a 3-11 show with the funk junkies. He went on down there and watched and came and wrote about it. It was really funny because he said, each band includes two rappers. They rhyme and sing to Neo-Hippy Rock, parentheses, 3-Eleven. Calling 3-Eleven Neo-Hippie Rock is just so funny. That's like such like an interesting generational thing. But, you know, he says the music pulls together cannabis compatible styles, honestly.

Yeah. Gorgeous. Perfect. From Grateful Dead Shuffles to Jamaican scone dance hall. Great. Yeah. Wonderful. And then Steve Appleford, big champion, writes another L.A. Tan's profile about them in 96. And this one's kind of interesting.

He basically points out that they are maybe like, or maybe they're, they're just saying to him that they're a little weary of the like MTV Buzzbin big thing because Nick Hexham says, we see this is a really good place to be and we don't want to mess it up by becoming overexposed. We just want to be careful to keep an underground approach. I wonder what an underground approach meant for them at that time because like as we've talked about, they didn't come from a scene. They didn't come from a what we would traditionally think of as an underground in American independent music. So I, I, I, I'm curious what he meant by that.

I mean, I know that one thing they were really devoted to, even if it wasn't a scene, was like playing shows for young people. Like, that was one of the main complaints they make in a bunch of interviews about being in L.A. and Hollywood is that there's like not enough all-ages shows. And so much of their crowd tends to be under 18 or under 21. I guess so much of it. Like, I've seen them talk about, you know, after they finished kind of the cycle for the self-titled record and began to work on transistor, they knew that they knew that

they were not ever going to reach that level of success again. And it was important to them to kind of continue down the path that they found artistically interesting. Do you think that they did know that? I mean, they said it at the time. Whether they internalized that, I could obviously not say. But I think that that was a pretty, if indeed they meant that, like, that was a pretty prescient way of looking at things, you know, and it's to be that age.

I mean, Blue Album was huge. Yeah, like, gigantic. When platinum, I mean, 2.3 million copies sold. Like, it was, I think to date it's their biggest album. Yeah, I think so. Biggest album, for sure. By the time from Chaos came out, it was like Napster era. So it's a little different in terms of sales.

There are about 10 articles in this year that used the headline, the 401 on 311. It's a good joke. Yeah. They didn't have the internet, so nobody knew that everybody else was saying that. Yeah, exactly. There was no way for them to know. There's another Rolling Stone review. I don't really know how Rolling Stone reviews worked at this time,

but David Frick also kind of wrote about them, but couched within what seems to be ostensibly a review of Tragic Kingdom. Okay. By no doubt. So he says both Tragic Kingdom and 311 are ear candy with good beats, not just bludgeoned by numbers guitar, and both bands are remarkably adept at genre juggling. 311 have a tight sinewy sound that for all its obvious Beatles come chili peppers traits

has a potent reggae undertone. Obvious beetles come chili peppers. That might be just shorthand for being like they write pop songs by way of red hot chili peppers style or whatever, which I'll give it to you. I'll love it. And then producer Dylan has said, most important review is probably from the Omaha World Herald,

which says, do you believe in the existence of intelligent life other than our own? Have you ever seen a UFO but decided not to tell anyone for fear of being sent to a mental institution? If you answered yes to either question, You have something in common 311. The former Omaha band's belief in the extraterrestrial has summed up in its newest CD.

Sorry. That's, that's, I mean, there are actually no real songs about aliens on the record. I mean, except in random when S.A. Martinez says aliens are wading up in the sky. But that's a single line in a single song. Like, it's not as though they were like, you know, he's not Tom to launch out there. No, if anything transistor is more of the album that's kind of, I don't know, like, conspiracy theory adjacent. Yeah, sure. But that's not until 97.

Oh, my God. Producer Dylan. A little oopsie, Daisy from the Omaha World Herald in 1996. That's producer Dylan's editorializing. A headline appearing in the World Herald caught the attention of local music fans. it read, need for 311 in Omaha is doubted. Unfortunately, this was about, I think, the phone thing, 311, which I think you called to get like non-emergency U.S. government services or something.

Yeah, yeah. But people thought it was about the band. And Linda McDonald, who was the mother of Chad Sexton, did say on record that she had a lot of people comment on that headline. That's amazing. Well, you know, the other local Omaha controversy around this time is that because the band was suddenly very, very famous, they became a target for all kinds of bizarre ideas, including the idea that the name 311 means three of the 11th letter of the alphabet, which of course is the letter K, thus making the band name secretly KKK. And their shirts were banned from, I think from Westside High School in Omaha, which is where three. of them went to school. Yeah, and I think a couple of

other Omaha high schools too. So it was illegal to rep 311 on the basis of what's frankly a pretty ridiculous conspiracy and... Also, the name is actually based on the police right, the police code for indecent exposure

based on a streaking incident with Jim Watson who was the original guitarist and him getting arrested for it and they thought it was funny. So they called it 311 and it is funny. It's wild to me that that rumor was able to spread so quickly because they're a band who has always been and to this day remains very i would all i think i would go as far as to say anti-racist in their ideology you know they

at this time they were taking uh the museum of tolerance on tour with them to teach their fans about the importance of of respecting other cultures and learning how to to fight against you know bigotry of all kinds you would hope with their liberal borrowing of uh black music that they would be anti-racist. Yeah. And it's, you know, that's something that I think spoke to me a lot as a young person getting into their music. I can have the distinct memory of peanut in large a show to tale saying fuck the KKK into the camera as a way of kind of definitively drawing the line that that rumor is not a thing. So this was the 90s. This is when these sort of like wild rumors

would spread like, you know, we're not that far away from the rumor of Marilyn Manson removing his ribs to give himself a blowjob or whatever. Like, that's what we talked about on the playground. An incredible pre-internet rumor that spread. I have friends, one of my best friends lives in Toronto, and he grew up also believing that about Marilyn Manson. And we've never been able to figure out how we both knew that. Where it came from?

Where did it originate? There's nobody between the ages of 35 and 40 who doesn't, who didn't at one time think that was true. It really went around the fucking globe. Yeah. I just, I'm so sorry. I love the Omaha World Herald so I have to listen. I just, I need to read you one more

Please. Line. Just because 311 has a song titled Don't Stay Home, doesn't mean the band dislikes home cooking. We love to come home. 311's lead vocalist and songwriter Nick Hexam said Saturday afternoon.

Gorgeous. Perfect. I've been writing about music since 2004, 2005. And you'll never achieve that. I'll never write a lead as good as that. I never have and I never will. Never will.

That's incredible. I want to read you two portions of interviews that Nick Hexham did in 1986 from the high times. As peanut breaks up the hash, drops it in a pipe and ignites it down, Hexham offers his view of pot prohibition. The trend we see is that young people know marijuana is safer than alcohol, he says. It's just a matter of time before these people grow up and old politicians who aren't educated, die out and people who know how relatively safe marijuana is take their place. I'm totally on board until here. We never thought we'd see the fall of the Eastern block. If the Berlin Wall can come down,

I certainly think we can legalize marijuana. Well, I'm going to stand up for Nick on this. Only in that he's talking about the horizons of possibility, right? Like, he's simply saying we never thought the Berlin Wall could come down, and that happened. So therefore, this other thing that seems impossible, the legalization of marijuana could also happen. Totally. And to be generous, like, again, this is 1996.

He was born in 70. That means he lived through the 80s and the Cold War and all of that stuff. So they had a decent amount of press coverage, actually looking back. But, you know, they're also not a band that's like particularly drama-filled or, like, has some, like, wild and wicked story or beef with other bands or whatever. They're just like five boys from Nebraska who are best, best friends and love to just. smoke weed and just vibe. And there's like not a whole lot, you know, to grab onto there when you have like,

you know, Billy Corgan and Courtney Love and like, there's a lot going on in the 90s to write about. Yeah. The real estate is precious. Well, they just, they didn't, they weren't interested in engaging with the cynicism of the era other than to criticize it and to reject it and to say like, you know, you don't, you don't have to live that way. Like, you don't have to be bummed out.

don't want to be. Like you can accept the sort of the contingencies of life and the possibility of bad things happening or the existence of genuinely bad things and still find joy in life. I'm kind of always moved by the song One, Two, Three on Grassroots, which is, you know, the chorus of that song is it's all right to feel good. It's all right for nothing to be wrong. And he was writing that in 1994, you know? No, everything is wrong. You can say everything is wrong while, also letting yourself feel good in the meantime, you know? I mean, maybe that makes Nick Hexon sort of just the dude from idols saying joy as an act of

resistance or whatever. But it, you know, again, that's not incorrect. I never thought about it that way, him being a real leader in the joy as an active resistance movement. Yeah. I don't think he probably thought about it that way either. No, I don't think so. But I like that take on it.

Let's move on to 1997. We kind of touched on it here and there. They're also like a pretty, like, healthy band. They're not really doing drugs outside of obviously smoking copious amounts of weed and, like, I'm sure psychedelics, but like they're not shooting heroin. They're not snoring, you know, it's the 90s. They're not doing any of that kind of stuff. The next album is when beautiful disaster is on it where they, like, kind of draw a line in the sand against the bad drugs.

You know, they're super health nuts. They're like, you know, ginseng and sushi and smooth. movies, like surfing and they're real posy, real posy. So in 1997, it doesn't really apply to 3-11 except for that brief moment where two things intersected with the blue album, which is like they made a bit of crunchy guitar and alt rock was kind of peaking. And so that worked out for them. But it's not that they were like caring or paying attention probably to what was going on, you know, within commercial at the time, whatever. alt rock music. So what's happening in rock in 1997 largely has nothing to do with 311 and their

album. Do you think that they benefited greatly, even in 96, but then coming on 97 from sublime success with the self-title? Because they are associated, you know? Yeah. So as somebody who grew up in Louisiana, kind of always looking west, so to speak, I think that the top of the top of the top of the that 311 sort of began to raise that also included tragic kingdom and included Real Big Fish

and the sublime self-titled record made a very particular portrait of what California and California music were like in a way that I think was probably very similar to like my parents' generation's view of

California through the mamas and the papas and the beach boys. Beach Boys Or maybe like Laurel Canyon as well But for them it was sort of this idea of a very Both an idyllic and a pastoral Notion of California As a place that's in some ways kind of innocent

In some ways kind of almost a return to the earth type thing Whether that's the ocean or the land And I think this sort of mid-90s California music on radio California music is almost like a return to the suburbs, but the idea of the suburb is being a place that's actually cool and you could actually create something interesting in the suburbs despite the popular idea of it being like a soulless place.

Like I remember feeling like I would watch a movie and there would be people hanging out in front of a 7-Eleven. And like we didn't have 7-Elevens where I lived. And if we did, like you probably wouldn't hang out in front of one. But it seemed like in Orange County, like it was just kind of sick to like go get a big gulp and like stand in front of the 7-11 and just chill with your bros you know I was in Orange County but close enough yeah it was cool yeah and that was just like a whole a whole thing that we didn't really we also hung out in the Taco Bell parking lot did you guys not do that we hung out in the Taco Bell parking lot for sure I mean that's that's universal

I mean I have to wonder like what people who bought the album the blue album based on down thought when they got the rest of it, right? Because like, down is not out of place on the record, but it's also like the only one of its kind on the record, if that makes sense. Like, if you came for Down, are you like, oh, this is a little stonery for me? Or like, I just wonder, you know? I don't know. I mean, I feel like a song like Hive was probably a pretty easy. Yeah, Hive kind of punky. Appeal. Yeah, you know, had a lot of curse words in it, which is always exciting at that age. Random also. I think random is an incredible song, in my opinion, the sort of interplay of Nick and Essay's vocals in that song is very interesting and it's also a heavier song as well. So maybe it wasn't anything as traditionally structured as Down is, but I do think there are a decent number of songs on there that felt of a piece with it, you know.

Why don't we hear randoms if people if they haven't heard, you know, I think the other two were singles if they haven't gotten to a deep cut off the album. Yeah, I would love to hear random. And then we'll go to the next album. This is random. That was random. It's a fun song. You know, I said interplay, but then between Nick and essay, but then listening to it, like there's, it's almost as if they're singing two different songs in the chorus of that song.

Yeah, the chorus is the funnest part, right? Yeah, absolutely. There's like singing past one another, which is a pretty cool trick, I think. Okay, so some important things happen in 196. I want to just start by reading you this quote from Nick Hexham in the magazine, Warp. For those of those of you don't remember, Warp, was a very cool magazine that I believe was a spinoff of a trans world subsidiary. And I got my first corn casingle with Warp. Which song?

It was blind. Nice. Yeah. Corn also friends with 311 and played a lot of shows back in the day. Yeah. A different kind of hybrid music. So Nick Hexam said, we don't play punky pop rock, which MTV is all over. I think our time is a little more down the road.

I would like to be like the Grateful Dead, he says. Adding that the band played a song by the Dead on the night after a singer to guitarist Jerry Garcia's death. The Dead always focus on their live shows and have people who travel around to see them. They're very successful, but they did it without hits and mainstream press. Again, I will argue that that's kind of how 311 ended up, right?

Yeah. They have people that travel around to see them. With a few exceptions, they have a handful of radio hits, so maybe more than the Grateful Dead, but. I mean, not on a huge level. You know, they haven't had a radio head since Amber, probably. Well, yeah, I mean, love songs. Or love song to cover.

Yeah. But yeah, I think you're right. I totally agree with you that there is a sort of similar Grateful Dead vibe to it and to their fan base, both in the sense of the people traveling around, which people absolutely do in a way that they don't for no doubt or other bands of their era. Your friend Yossi did follow them up the West Coast one year. You followed no doubt or 311? No, 11.

just one time one summer we don't have to talk about it we can talk about it later well I mean we can talk about it was a little bit later it was from chaos era got it but like what's what's fascinating to me is like because I like the Grateful Dead a lot as well

I happen to be wearing a Grateful Dead t-shirt right now but the Grateful Dead jammed you know you could expect a different situation every night depending on the mood of the people on stage and depending on where they wanted to take the songs

In 3-11, there have been moments in their history where they've extended songs a little bit, where they've added an instrumental break onto 8.16 a.m. or onto a song like Tide from grassroots, but they've never been a true jam band, and they've never, you know, they've gone through phases where they switch up their set list, but sometimes they go years without switching up their set list.

So it's unclear to me. I totally agree on that, but I don't even mean they even have sonic similarities in any way. I just mean that how they ended up moving through the world as a band did end up close to what they wanted. And I think that's kind of what Nick Haxson was saying was like, this is how we want to be as a band. You know, we want to play live 300 days a year or whatever. And we want to have people that come out for the live experience. I mean, they've said time and time again that like they're a band who prioritizes the live experience over the albums.

and I think you could say that about the Grateful Dead too. Again, once again, knowing that I have not heard any Grateful Dead music. Yeah, that's absolutely right. And the live experience is, I personally really enjoy it. I still enjoy it. I enjoyed it a lot more back then, but I still think they're a great live band. But it's still just not super clear to me what the appeal is, the way you can point to the variety of music being made with the dead.

You know what I mean? Yeah. I think they also just haven't hit the level of a Grateful Dead or Fish, which is like it's an experience that has so many more layers to it. But I do think probably for some people, 311 shows, do have multiple layers of experience. And like, you know, they go to the crew. Isn't there a cruise?

Yeah, they have a cruise. Yeah, like 311 cruise, the 311 Day Fest. Like, you know, there's like a whole community around this. It's not as big as the Grateful Dead and it's not as merchandised. But, you know, I think it exists. It's pretty merchandise. Well, on my way to buy a t-shirt. He says, I know we're a lot more positive and have more heartfelt lyrics than the tough music stands that prevails.

I like lyrics that have meaning behind them, and I like to hear a good love song. I'm not trying to sound all hard. We're just being ourselves. Yeah. My Ernest King. Yeah. He has a quote when I interviewed him in 2020, and he said when they first came up in the mid-90s, the prevailing idea was that if, you were negative and if you were pessimistic and if you were cynical you were perceived as having

depth and if you were an optimistic person or if you tried to look things in a positive way you were perceived as being shallow and that's uh you know that's obviously a very common idea even still i would say but it's also i would argue an incorrect idea and there's there's just as much depth and positivity and happiness as there is and in anything else you know neither is necessarily more intellectually honest than the other, I would argue. I agree. I know a lot of miserable idiots. Yeah. This is a time I must take to point out that did you know that Nicholas Huxem did deliver his own child?

I did know that, yeah, because the doula was unavailable. Yes. My king. He was just like, yeah, it's okay. I just did it. It's cool. King of positive mental attitude, giving yourself a medical degree. Okay. So what I wanted to talk about was, you know, they get their first TV debut in 96 based on the popularity of down. It's on late night with Conan O'Brien. It's notable because Nick Hexham is wearing vinyl pants, I believe. I can't tell if they're vinyl or plather, but they're gorgeous.

They also go on Letterman. They also play a bunch of festivals and tours that really, to me, demonstrate the reach of their fan base or whatever. Because they play a horde, which you talked about earlier, Horde, the horizons of rock developing everywhere. Festival started by Blues Traveler. That's the Head Shop Festival. That's the Petulia Festival. blues traveler, rusted root, David Matthews band,

G-11 special sauce, many more. So they fit right in there. Apparently there was a grand finale where they did an all-star jam and they did superstition by Stevie Wonder and it was Nick Hexham, Lenny Kravitz, John Popper, all of blues traveler,

Lenny's band, Rusted Root altogether. Could you imagine? Oh my God. No, I simply can. Insane. They also played the warp tour in the same year. So Beck, Blink 1-82, deaf tones,

fishbone, right at home here also. Then they go on tour an open for Cypress Hill with the far side. Gorgeous. Other marijuana connoisseurs and proponents. And then they cap it all off by opening for kiss at Madison Square Garden. Talk to me about opening for kiss at Madison Square Garden. I can't imagine seeing 311 open for kiss. I'm sure not many people did.

No. And it seems to me, from what I've heard, that most Kiss fans could not imagine a band. like 3-11 opening for Kiss. And this was the Kiss reunion tour. I mean, this was when, you know, they put the makeup back on. They brought Peter and Ace back in from the cold.

Like, this was an extremely hyped tour. It was like, probably it had to have been one of the best selling tours of that year. And they put 3-Eleven on the Madison Square Garden night of that particular show. And I think, like, for them, for the band, for 3-Eleven, like, I think it was a very exciting moment in a very, you know, we've made it, we've arrived kind of moment. but I've definitely read quotes from them where they've talked about, like, the crowd not being super, super psyched about hearing them.

But according to Gene Simmons, they were like the band who had been booed the least on that tour of all the openers. Apparently Nick Hexham said that they said if we went into Kiss's dressing room hallway, that we would be kicked off the bill. So we were only allowed to sit in this tiny hallway and just stand there and wait for our set. That's amazing. I mean, it happens. Again, I wanted to list all those out to just show the range of this band.

Like, you're playing Warp Tour and Petulia Fest in the same year, babe? Great. Yeah. That's your fan base. Now we're in 1997, and they're putting out transistor. I know we hinted at it a little bit earlier with the Goss, delivered by the Omaha World Herald, but I think their relationship with Capricorn is, like, deteriorating. this whole time.

It's the bad vibes. Transistor was not produced by any of the old producers. It's produced by 311 and Scot Scotch Ralston and it debuts at number four on the Billboard 200,

which often happens when you have a really popular album right before. But it's not as commercially successful. No. It sold, I think it ended up selling about a million copies,

like about a third as much as the blue album did. And I mentioned earlier that they believed themselves to have already peaked commercially with the blue album. And so they went into this record, as one of them says in one of the enlarged a show-to-tale films, they went into this record and just made the record that they felt like was a middle finger to the concept of selling records. And because it was 1997, you could do that and make a 72-minute-long album and still sell a million copies of it. Right. It was 67-59. 21. have it right on hand here, 21 tracks, 23, if you count the two hidden tracks.

Yeah, one in the beginning and one at the end. How do you put a hidden track at the beginning? We'll never know because we don't have the CD. When you put the CDN, you immediately hit the rewind button. And it rewinds back into before the beginning of the song, Transistor. We used to be a proper country. Yeah, transistor intro. So the whole record is them kind of,

experimenting and trying things out in the studio and really letting their imaginations run wild. To me, it got bad reviews when it came out. This album was panned. Entertainment Weekly gave it an F. Wow. That's the lowest you can get. To me, Transistor is not only 311's best record.

Transistor is probably one of my favorite records ever made. A lot of that, of course, has to do with my age and has to do with the things that were happening in my life as I got into that album as a kid, but a lot of it is that there's just so much happening on it and there's so much swirling around. They're doing a lot of stuff with texture. They're doing a lot of stuff with rhythm

that's really fascinating. They're doing a lot of sort of small quiet sounds, which is something that they had not even tried to do before. Like I'm especially thinking of a song like Inner Light Spectrum, which begins in this kind of muffled haze, clarifies a little bit, and then goes into this sort of long coda, of like a very distant cowbell sound

and you can hear like eboed guitars and it still has the kind of... More cowbell. There's an implied groove in it. Like you can't really feel where the groove is coming from but it's still sort of rocking your body a little bit. I really think that the stuff they're doing, again, it's not, you know, this is not, you know,

a Prince Jammy record or a scientist record or whatever, but they're trying to use dub principles, principles of reggae dub in a way that I think is, really fascinating and marrying it to sort of their pop sensibilities and what is for them a burgeoning interest in Prague rock. So they're kind of bringing together all these. They were they were like three years ahead of the easy star all stars on the the dub side of the moon tip. So you're saying this is their wowie zowie. I mean yeah, I wouldn't have thought to make that connection. But yeah, you're totally right. It is absolutely their wowie zowie. Thank you. That's what I do here.

make connections. And in the same way that Wowi Zawi has like the one very emotional pavement song and what is it unfair or ground? I can never keep that shit straight but it's is it grounded on that record? Yes, it's grounded.

The most goddamn gorgeous, beautiful, sad pavement song. Beautiful song. But so in the same way that like Waui Zawi has grounded right in the middle of it which is pavement's prettiest and most emotional song, 311 has use of time right in the middle of transistor which is one of their, you know, really one of their artistic high points in my mind.

It sounds like a Pink Floyd song that's, you know, been run through a Jamaican sound system or something. Should we hear Yusuf Time? Because I really like that song. Yeah, let's hear it. Okay, this is Yusuf Time. That was Yusuf Time a goddamn gorgeous, beautiful song. I love it so much. Do I know what it's about?

No. These lyrics? No idea. All I know is that that song is about two guitarists. was from Tim Mahoney. That's what it's about for you. To me, that's what that song is about. For me, it's a breakup song, or at least like a love Lauren song.

I can't explain it through the lyrics per se. I mean, there's some evidence to that, but emotionally, it's that kind of song. Yeah. I love it. I've always wondered what he means by a partial stoning of the heart. It means the heart wasn't fully stoned, so that it stayed partially alive. Oh. Allow me to put the words into Nicholas.

Hexam's mouth. That's what I would assume. Oh, did you think it was like stoning like weed stoning? Yeah, yeah. I thought it was like a stoning as in like a medieval way to execute somebody. Yeah, I mean, I never thought of it from the like what I think you're exactly right with, which is like the idea of having a heart of stone and then it's like a partial heart of stone. I had always thought of it as like because of the context of it being a 311 song. I've always thought of it as like, oh, like, you know, you're like a little high. But in your heart. Right. Sure. No, I don't think he was trying to be a little high in his heart. No, I think you totally agree.

It's a sad song. Could you hear the void I describe? What could I say vacancy sounds like? Yeah. Sad. Yeah. I think it bears noting that like that's not like a happy lyric, right? Like that's not a super sunshiney type thing.

But it's also not brutally dark either, you know? And I think the sort of the trajectory of that song and the way it kind of lifts off on those guitar solos. You know, it suggests a kind of strength and a kind of resilience that I think, that I think kind of complicates the lyric. Yeah, it's not Radiohead. But it's something.

One thing I wanted to point out was that apparently, according to the documentary, this album, as I brought this up before, this album was influenced by a love of conspiracy theory and out there media like coast to coast. Did you know this? I didn't know specifically coast to coast, but I knew about the conspiracy videos. I guess, like, you can kind of hear that in Prisoner.

Was that a single? Because I had a music video. Yeah, Prisoner was a single. It's a good song. But the best song on here is obviously beautiful disaster, and there's no debate about that. There may be no debate within your partially stoned heart, but I think in mine... Marty, on this show, there is no debate over that this is the best song on this album. I will let you have...

that for the moment. I think to this day, beautiful disaster might be my favorite 3-11 song. And if it's not, it's top three. Yeah, I mean, it's a great song. It's absolutely a great song. Yeah, that's right. We should hear it. This is beautiful disaster.

That was beautiful disaster. Gourgios. God damn gorgeous beautiful song. I try to be not like that, but some people really suck. Who can relate? Me about being a bitch, huge cunt. I try to be not like that, but some people really suck. Nick Hexam, I totally am right on fucking bored with you, babe.

This also goes... He's with you. He's with me. This also goes tangentially in the canon of songs about manic pixie mentally ill girls that were really popular in the 90s. And this one is a drugstore cowgirl who's so afraid of getting bored. And she does the bad drugs. And he says, I might do that stuff if it didn't make me feel like shit.

I'm on some old reality tip. So many trips in it. I believe he's referring to nostalgia. Yeah. I mean, I think that could very well be it. I mean, an old reality. I don't know. I'm on some old reality tip.

Maybe like an old reality is like, you know, like a good old reality. Yeah, good old reality. I'm high on life, bitch. That's what Nick Hexon is saying. I don't need your bad drugs. I'm high on hydroponic marijuana and life. Yeah, and also probably a couple of mushrooms I took earlier. And some ginseng.

This song was probably the big. biggest single off this album. Do you think it also was because of the crunchy guitars? Because this song also has a similar crunchy guitars to down. It does, but one of the things I think is cool about the guitars in this song, I mean, obviously the solos and like the kind of thin Lizzie dueling leads thing. Toured a lot with the band The Urge. And the Urge always started their songs with like these dual or triple harmony horn

release. It just sounds really, really great. It's really piercing and really, really compelling. But I think the chorus has this really interesting amount of restraint in it. You know, like Peanut and Tim Mahoney are sitting really hard in that groove on the, you know, and the first part of the chorus when you're saying, beautiful disaster, the guitar and the bass are just like real, real choppy, where you would expect this kind of huge soaring chorus.

It's a really tightly grooving chorus. And then as the chorus goes, it's sort of the groove begins to stretch and stretch and stretch. and then when it finally gets into the end of it, and it's just the guitar break again, that's when it actually begins to fully rock out or whatever. And I think that tension that they build into the chorus and then explode it after the chorus is a really, really cool trick.

Yeah. I don't think about that. I guess that's sort of like a tension, build tension, release tension situation that we love to enjoy. Yeah. Tell me your favorite song on this album, since obviously it's not my favorite song. It is not yours, which I'm sorry about.

but my favorite song on this record and actually my favorite 311 song is stealing happy hours, which is the last song on the album. The first line is like massive laminate fortress, hazy cannabis porches. Only one of those phrases makes

sense and that's the hazy cannabis porches. But the feeling of the song and the chorus is stealing happy hours or stealing happy hours. It feels like this kind of the sun is going down it's the last day of vacation.

There's that kind of bittersweet. We've had a great time together, but we know we have to go back to reality that I think is really compelling and that I've always really loved about that song. May I push back on you and say that actually massive laminated fortress does make sense to me.

It sounds like a big show. Oh, that kind of laminate. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. I wonder if that's, I mean, at this point in there, career they're playing these big shows.

You know, once you get here, there's no more gates and we're going to steal happy hours. I wonder if this song is sort of about, you know, having a girl visit you on tour. That could be. Maybe it's about the Horde tour specifically. Oh, God. Okay, actually, maybe it is about the Horde tour because I think the, the, the solos, the way, I'm a big fan of Tim Mahoney's guitar playing, obviously. And I can see that. The stuff, the stuff that he's doing here, his solo is very.

similar to the ways that Jerry Garcia was playing in like 1991 on the song Eyes of the World by the Grateful Dead. It's the same guitar tone. It's the same kind of ideas. And it just works really, really well. And it suits this kind of sweet, melancholy that's still undergirded by happiness. You know, it's the way I feel every time I go to like a great life-changing rock concert. It's the way I feel when I know the band is playing the last song is the way that I feel.

is the way that I feel when I listen to this song. And also when you do mushrooms. Me, personally. Okay, this is stealing happy hours. That was stealing happy hours. Gorgeous, beautiful song. This is the song that has the Bukowski reference. Yes.

Yeah, he says Hank Chinaski. You make me feel like Hank Chinaski in war all the time, war all the time. Yeah, which is probably like the vibe you got. just from listening to the song. Like it sounds like a song that somebody who likes Charles Bukowski would write, you know, a nice soft, hazy. I'm so surprised that Nick Hexham is like a Bikowski fan. Yeah. It doesn't totally fit.

I feel like with his ethos. Yeah, I am too. I think it's very, very strange. I was wondering about this fairly recently. It seemed like in the mid and late 90s, Bukowski was more of a touchstone for alternative rocker dudes than he was. even a decade later. I mean, I know Modis Mouse had that song, Bukowski in 2004,

but it seemed like in the mid-90s, he was like a very hip reference to check. Yeah, and that makes sense. Yeah, because I posted this on Twitter and people were saying, well, you know, he was kind of like this, sort of this dirtbag, L.A. type thing that was kind of,

kind of sort of related to what was going on in the culture at the time. Why didn't you ask Nick Hexon when you interviewed him? You had an opportunity to ask him. I was too busy. asking Nick Hexam like to recommend some cool bands for me, which is how I learned about the band turnstile.

Nick Hexum is a known turnstile fan. That's true. Known turnstile fan. My favorite thing related to this song is that in the genius.com annotations, there's just one, just one annotation and it's on the lyric, the wait, it sucks. I don't mind waiting. An annotation just says, the weight does suck. But if you don't mind waiting, then it doesn't suck.

And you enjoy it. That's so true. That's been my experience at every airport I've ever been to it. I simply can't find a lie in that sentence. And it needed to be said. Finally someone said it. Yeah, I love this album. I mean, transistor, like you said, it's actually, you didn't say it, I said it.

It really is the wowie zowie of 311 where at the time it was unfairly critically maligned. But in hindsight, people have recognized its genius and beauty. Yeah, I mean, I think the band itself also was kind of recognized. that it's a high watermark for them. They had their own festival in, I think in the Florida Panhandle called Powwow in 2011. Oh, yeah. They played the whole record front to back,

which is something they've done. I want to say they did it with music and grassroots and maybe the self-titled as well at various times, but this was like a destination set up a tent in the swamp in August and we're going to play all of Transistor. And it's still to this day talked about pretty regularly, you know, on their Reddit and on their message boards as being like one of the high point.

of their entire career was playing this record front to back. And I mean, like I said, to me, I think a lot of the music that I love now, I probably love because of what this record gave to me when I was, let's say, 15, 16 years old, the sort of swirling textures and the willingness to kind of get lost in a song, the ways that there's less emphasis on, I don't want to say less emphasis on meaning and more emphasis on vibes, but that is kind of sort of what's happening there. And I think that's what led me personally to a lot of the stuff I listen to you now, which is frankly, heavier on vibes than anything else. So to me, it's a, it's a pretty important record and a much more interesting record than that gets credit for.

It's definitely tangentially related to. I think we talk about it on this program a lot, which is no ambition, just vibes. This is less emphasis, just vibes. Yeah. We are a show that is all about just vibes. I don't need to think anymore than I already do. Frankly speaking, it's gotten me nowhere. So I would love to simply lay back, let the 311 wash over me, my smooth, smooth brain does not get caught on anything, just glides right over.

We'll get into it when we get into the later albums. But it had an interesting experience where you get a bit of enjoyment from familiarity no matter what. Like that's kind of a thing, right? It's why they play the songs on the radio 300,000 times. Probably from chaos. I was very familiar with the album. So, you know, I was just joyfully listening. When I got to later albums that I wasn't that familiar with, I found it hard.

It was like slogging through. And then I put them on in the car in the gorgeous sunshine. Driving on a beautiful day with my little fruit cart cup. You know what I'm talking about. My LA people know. Oh, yeah. And I was just like, I love this. I love every single one of these albums.

I don't care what anyone says. And I was like, this is not the music that is meant to be like a job, a worked through. This is the music that you're just supposed to vibe to. Yeah. And I think there's something in, at least in music. critic culture, which is where I'm coming from or where I've kind of found myself that... I know. Sorry for you. I know. Because there's something that says like that's not enough, right? Or that that's a suboptimal kind of music and that the best music is the music that you do have to

either work really hard for or that does force you into some sort of deep intellectual confrontation. And those things are valuable. And I do value... That's why they love noise music. And it's like, ugh, give me a fucking break. babe, I don't want to do this. I'm tired. I listen to a lot of noise music and I listen to a lot of like really weird and obnoxious shit. But at the same time, like, I think it's silly to say that the aesthetic values of the things Sonic Youth is putting out on S.Y.R. are somehow higher or better than the aesthetic values of an album like transistor. I'll never get to write for pitchfork again after this comes out. And that's fine because this is what I believe. So maybe a blessing.

Could be a blessing possibly. Who knows? No. We don't know. There's a gorgeous Rolling Stone profile that comes out after this album. They, like, did one of those, like, you know, old school go on the road with them type situations. Love it. There's just, like, so many moments that are so incredibly 1997. They're talking about who smokes weed and who doesn't. Nick Hexham likes to wake and make it home, but doesn't partake on the road. And S.A. Martinez wasn't smoking at all anymore, which is very interesting.

That was interesting. But what I loved was Peanut, like, breaks down what he did. that day, and it goes like this. First, he met his foxy girlfriend at a head shop and bought the aforementioned bong. And then he purchased a new laptop computer so he can fuck around on America online. That's right, while 3-11 are on the road.

But this is the best part. Oh, yeah. He also put a $15,000 lien on his home mortgage in order to bail his friend's assistant out of jail. It seems they were busted with more than 4,000 potted marijuana plants. And he says, I'm just happy I got to help out, even though I don't know the assistant. knowing that he was in jail for no reason

besides the law made it worth the hassle. Let's just ignore the no reason besides the law to be in jail. But what a fucking prince. You were a prince, peanut. Totally. Like, I didn't even know this person and I put up a $15,000 lien against my own mortgage

to Belmont jail. This man is the best. They truly are just like the best, most lovely people. I love them. That whole day sounds incredible. You know, starting with, meeting his foxy girlfriend at the head shop and at the head shop and buying a bong all the way through

to like performing justice what a great day with his quick detour on america online booting up the america online i love it just got to see what's on the bbs man there's like an interesting quote from nick hexum interesting or funny however you want to look at it or they're talking about the lyrics of 311 and the guys calling them refreshingly positive and he says when i find myself singing about my problems i think well how am i to complain. Kurt Cobain should have felt that way. I have a big problem with the fact that someone could be given so much yet still see the negative side and everything. Yeah. The Kurt Cobain comparison aside, I do really, I do really admire this. I really admire this idea that he's like,

I'm a fucking rock star. I get paid to make music for a living and hang out with my friends and smoke weed. And it's awesome. And I just don't want to complain. Like, it's not my thing. I'm not understand it. Something that I didn't bring up before that I think is kind of related to this aggressive positivity that flows through 311 is that Nick Hexham comes from a line of therapists. His grandfather was a therapist and his mother was a therapist, which is like, you can tell, right? Like he is therapist. I think his grandfather was a Southern Baptist preacher. That's right. You're right. Who was a profoundly anti-racist preacher, particularly for his era.

I think his grandfather wrote like an op-ed about how... Yeah, he said his segregation Christian. Yeah, is segregation Christian? That's what it was. And the answer was no. And as a result, he was no longer a Southern Baptist. And he was kicked out of the church. Ask to leave.

So, I mean, Nick clearly comes from very, very good stock. His mom's a therapist who's literally wrote in a book called Love is a verb, which is, you know, like, that's great. That's fantastic. The action of love. I can't believe they didn't use that as a 3-11 song title. I guess it's not too late. God, yeah. That's a great point.

It's only a matter of time. Do they're just good corn-fed Nebraska boys who have values and morals? I think it's around this time, too, that he and essay begin closing all their concerts with essay saying, take care of yourself and someone else. And then Nick saying, stay positive and love your life. and that latter phrase especially eventually becomes kind of this like it's like they're you know

if they were to mint a 311 coin that would be what was printed on the rim of it right is like stay positive and love your life and you know in 1996 1997 that's that's actually kind of a countercultural message you know that's not what was commonly being presented to people at that time

and I don't know I've always found it very admirable That was not the vibe in 1997. I mean, we're coming up on we did it all for the Nookie. We're not there yet, but we're like really coming on not the vibe at all. Yeah, it's the interregnum between I hate myself and want to die and I did it all for the Nookie. That brief space where 311 was allowed to shine. Yep. This last quote from this thing, I just have to tell you.

He says, maybe if the great thinkers of past times like Buddha or Christ were alive today, people would say they were shallow because they were just talking about everyone being cool to each other. And it's like, think about that. I'm serious. I mean, yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's probably... I'm not poking any holes in that perfect logic.

I'm serious. No, no. I think he's probably right, but I'm hesitant because there's no way to affirm that statement without also sounding shallow. Do you know what I mean? I mean, like, yes, you're going to sound like the guy in the dorm room that, you know, has the bong and wants to talk to you about Buddha and Christen philosophy. and has the Bob Martley poster in the whole nine yards.

But that's nothing wrong with that guy. When did we as a society decide to reject that guy? I don't think we ever accepted that guy as a society. I know why. Buddha and Christ did not have to deal with like irony. And like side eye and sarcasm. Maybe they did. Who knows?

Maybe that stuff is eternal as well. I'm not reading that, because you're not. We're not doing that. We're not talking about caressing the ears. We're not doing it. We wanted to. Okay, fine.

You all, producer Gillen insists that I read that he said, we wanted to create songs that caress your ears rather than just slap them. I've always been into the Smiths as much as bad brains. Again, I'm no music critic, so don't look at me. But I think that's a pretty fucking gorgeous way to describe 311's music. Yeah, for sure. I'm not sure if I would describe the Smiths as ear caressing music, which I think is the parallel he's trying to draw there and bad brands are slapping your ears.

Nick's from a different generation from me, so he probably hears Morrissey a bit differently than I do. He's from the better generation. Yes. Generation X, the superior generation. That's the line that we draw on this hand on here on this show. That's fair. I'm a geriatric millennial, so I've always looked up to Gen Xers myself. I'm also a geriatric millennial, but spiritually we've talked about it.

J-X. Yeah, I'm with you. Okay, so before we move on from this album, or at least get to the next album, You just want to ask you a question about how in 1997, Puff Daddy did come Ask 311, collaborate with him on a remake of All About the Benjamin's, and they said no. Yes. Yeah, that's correct. I know there's a great Nick Hexon quote where he tried to convince Puff Daddy that it should be all about something other than the Benjamin's, but I don't remember what it... I don't either.

It was like all about love or friendship or something. Yeah. It was like the farthest out it was like it's all about the eight. aliens or something. Oh, Perdigilin found it. We said we would only be involved. We could sing our own verse about, it ain't about the Benjamins.

It's about the friends I'm in. Friends I'm in? I know. I don't think he meant it that way. Yeah, he was just trying to make a line. He was riffing. He was free selling. Yeah.

And then he said, but then Sickburn, or perhaps to some sad people, it is all about the Benjamins. I mean, show me the lie. Yeah, I mean, that would have been an interesting move, although it would not have worked for that, particular song. Did that remix ever exist? Because it seems like Dave Grohl and Tommy Stinson were on it? Yeah, and Rob Zombie too. Oh my God. Lordy. There's a Rob Zombie Yarl that goes behind Puff Daddy in the chorus of that song.

The 90s were an incredible time. Yeah, truly. We didn't deserve it, honestly. 311 plays Warp Tour again in 1998. They play Warped for like a hundred times. Solvement Warped Tour in 2001, I think. Yeah, later. I think I went to that one too. They toured with Incubis and Sugar. Ray, gorgeous classic lineup. Love that for them. Yep. In 1999. And then 1999, they put out

another album, Sound System. We do now have Limpisket and Corn. As well as Incubis has sort of made their mark. And Sugar Ray had their big album that had, um, every morning and yeah, I can't remember what other tracks were on there. When it's over? Is that one on that record? Yes.

And all the things that I used to say got in the way. And all. Also, Californication has come out. For those of you at home, I don't remember when we dreamed of Californication. It was 1989. Talk to me about Hugh Paddam. I'm very interested because 311 gets a lot of big producers. Right.

Hugh Paddam, like you said, off mic, he had produced for Phil Collins, produced in the air tonight. He'd produced for the police, XTC, Adam Ant, Human League, a bunch of 80s David Bowie, and also motherfucking Clonod. Okay? Some respect on Clononon's fucking name. What? That's a great question. I don't know.

I don't know why Hugh Patom produced the record sound system. There's nothing on it that sounds like those records. You know, there's a bad brains cover of the song Leaving Babylon, which is more of a straightforward reggae song. You know, doesn't sound anything like the police, which I guess is the closest of Hugh Patom's artists to what they're doing there.

Yeah. I think part of the reason why they end up with these producers, and as I'm sure we'll talk about why they end up with partnering with Bob Rock. Robert Rock. Robert Rock. I think it's because in part, they sort of start to see themselves as working within a certain kind of lineage as almost a classic rock band. By this point, I mean in 2022,

I think they do kind of see themselves as being in the classic rock mold. They had their sort of era of hits. They've got their dedicated fan base. They can play outdoor amphitheaters across the country every single summer until they all die and they'll sell them all out, which is true. I mean, they just announced a tour and I'm sure it'll do great numbers because it always does. And I think working with people like Hugh Patum, in some ways it kind of justifies that self-view, right? like if they think, well, we're a big sort of marquee band. We're shooting for this long-term career.

These are the kinds of guys we want to work with because Hugh Patom knew how to work with Bowie and he knew how to work with Phil Collins, so he knows how to work with 3-Eleven. I have like a less cynical take on it. I'm not saying that cynically either. I think that's just, I do think it's, you know, the way that they see themselves. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Yeah, no, sure. I just feel like honestly, like from everything I read, it sounds like,

they constantly want to like evolve their sound. And even though they may or may not totally do that on each album, it seems like they're like kind of shopping for these like more out there from the norm of their sound producers to help do that for them or help like bounce off of ideas. Because I think they've said that a lot. Like they could have just gone to like the very easy, you know, reggae, whatever producer. they definitely always avoided rap rock producers because they were like, we don't want to sound like that.

And so I think like going to the Hugh Adams and then later to Bob Rock was kind of like an exercise in that like let's see how this person can help us like evolve our sound in different directions since they've done so much eclectic work. Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of truth to that too. And I think they are always trying to expand on their sound. And I think my point was kind of that they end up expanding on this kind of proggy classic, less so on sound system, but as they kind of go into like Evolver and beyond, they are kind of moving down this Praguegy classic rock pathway, kind of in the same way that

like the foo fighters eventually sort of learn to style themselves as a band in a classic rock mold without necessarily playing that style of music. Totally. And they also, we've talked about it, they have a really eclectic taste. So like, I think they actually just really loved XTC in the police and we're like, yeah, no, we want to like have that sound. Yeah. So this album has.

one of their last, let me's second to last, original hits, radio hits, which is come original, which is a goddamn gorgeous, beautiful song, and I do not care

when anyone says, producer Dylan, don't even look in my eye. It's a huge single. It's definitely like back to like a big reggae vibe. Right. It's just such a fun and good song.

Should we hear it? Don't you feel like we should hear it? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's also just like one of those great 311 songs that kind of are scattered throughout the first half of their catalog that are essentially like a description

of what it is to be in 3-11. Totally. Oh my God, totally. That is very much one of their favorite tropes and there's the whole funk slap bass mix with the dance hall and hip-hop beats and punk guitar, which is actually like a pretty good description

of what they do. I mean, the song begins with Chad Sexton playing a drum and bass beat while there's this kind of like cascade of guitar coming down on top of it. Yeah, it's gorgeous. Okay, this is Come Original. That was Come Original.

I think culturally my favorite part of this song is in the second verse where they give a few shoutouts. The first one is the black eyed peas. Black eyed peas, they come in full range and no effects. They come in full range. And Ronnie Sise, he come in full range, the one Mr. Vegas. You know it easy. I just want to point out the black eyed peas in 1999 were not famous. They were known to me.

Right. A young backpack rap, aficionado. Yeah. who didn't go see them play many times. But there was no Fergie. There was no, let's get it started. There was no, you're so 2000 and late. None of that had happened yet.

They were simply an underground hip hop act. So I really love, I love that shout out. And then a no effects. Gorgeous. We love no effects. Yeah, odd choice no effects, I feel like. Black Eyed Peas makes a lot of sense. 311 did a song with Black Eyed Peas.

I think it may have been a remix, but they definitely collaborated in some way. Listen, at this point, point, 311 has gone on the warp tour 400 times. I'm sure Nofx was their best friend. I'm simply speculating, but... I can't see Fat Mike tolerating being around 311. Nofax was really close with Fishbone. They were friends with Fishbone. Okay. Fat Mike is in the documentary. They were also friends with Sublime. Okay. All right. You never know. Yeah. I mean, Nick is apparently good friends with Scott Ian and Van Thrax, which is not... Super good friends. Their kids go to school together.

You wouldn't expect that necessarily, so why not? I also just want to quickly note that this record came out in 99 when I was in ninth grade, and that's definitely where I heard about Ronnie's size. And that record that Ronnie Size and represent put out in 1999, new forms is like one of the coolest German bass records ever made. It is so fucking cool and so good. It didn't hold up cutifully. So if you haven't listened to Ronnie Size, take a word from the one Nick Hexum and go pick up new forms because it is so strong. I got to see Ronnie size DJ at Winter Music Conference.

May it rest in peace. Speaking of being old. Oh, wow. Producer Tori has reminded me that it is Weezer, who was good friends with no effects. But I also do think Fishbow done sublime because they play shows together. What else is on here? The song Evolution, which is Sabata Evolution. Right.

It has a very magnets, how do they work vibe, which is like an awe and wonder of our gorgeous nature and planet. I love it. You mentioned the leaving Babylon. Bad Brains cover, which I think is a very good cover. Yeah, it's very straightforward. To me, it's fine. I tend to skip it just because I feel like they don't necessarily add anything to the song, but it's a good song.

They do a straightforward cover of a good song. All right. I love Strong All Along. That is a motherfucking vibe. Really? Yeah, you don't like it? Strong All Along is one that I tend not to put on. It's a little playground-y, I feel like, that part you were just singing.

I like a sing-songy moment. I do. That's a thing that I enjoy. The song that I tend to listen to the most on this record is the song Life's Not a Race, which is this little salsa-ish, groovy song that's basically just a series of Santana-sounding guitar solos from Tim Mahoney. And in the background, the rest of the band is playing this super, super-tie groove that sounds just a little bit like war, fantastic LA funk band War. Low Ryder. Low Ryder. That's right.

Life's not a race. Sort of like inner light spectrum on transistor is a song that kind of gives me like a huge what if. Like if they had followed this path a little bit more, if they had explored sort of Latin funk rock with a little bit more curiosity or played with it a little bit more. I'm curious where they would have gone and where their sound would have taken them. Well, why don't we hear the songs, so everyone can know what you're talking about. This is Life's Not a Race.

That was Life's Not a Race. That is fun. Yeah, it's a fun song. I like it. I like the vocals. This is also the era, of course, of Smooth by Santana featuring Rob Thomas. I was going to say, this is very smooth by Santana featuring Rob Thomas energy. Yeah, yeah.

It was a hot one. It was. Okay, let's hear one more favorite song of mine. It is my show. I can do what I want and I have another favorite song on this album. Beautiful, beautiful flowing. This is flowing. That was flowing a goddamn gorgeous, beautiful, beautiful song. Okay. So this album, you know, I have to say like at this point and you can tell me what you think, I feel like at this point that reviews, of the albums, like, kind of stop mattering? Yeah, I think so. I think at this point they're starting to become self-sustaining

based partly on the live show. Although, I'm not sure that the reviews ever really mattered that much. I'm not, I don't think that critics ever did them. Even when they got decent reviews, I'm not sure that that really made much of an impact, you know? Totally. I think they got a lot of good press around the Blue Album and on because of, like, the radio hits, which probably did introduce them to people, but yeah, I agree. There's just one that I want to read a line from,

because this is when they start comparing them to Limp Biscuit. I think it's because like Rapp Rock has emerged what we now think of as Rapp Rock, whereas like 3-11 Sublime, that Fishbone, whatever, you know, like that was kind of occupying that space. It's like such different music. Like, why are you even comparing them? But this line is just really funny.

This is from Spin. They say 311 does have a distinct sound that no other band out there quite sounds like. While the funk metal and rap metal sounds are a dime a dozen and as common as a cold in February as we approach the millennium. Oh, my God, we're approaching the millennium, remember? 311's got this sound that puts them ahead of the pack. The music is laid back but still considerably rocking

and can still inspire the limpest biscuit to sway and bob his head. Should have been fired. That person should have been fired. Is that what that name means? No, I think it's a dick. Is it not? Oh, you performed a stronger reading of that than I did. You don't think that Limbiscuit refers to a dick?

No, I mean, I do generally, but I thought in that exact usage, they were talking about that being just like some random dude. I think you could honestly read it as a dick, and I wonder if that person was trying to titillate. That's why I said they should have been fired. God, I think you're probably right. Okay, so in the year 2000, the millennium has happened. Y2K has gone down.

Everything was fine. 311 sues Capricorn Records. Like we said, the relationship had been souring for many years. And I think this just kind of ties into like the thing that you mentioned about the careerist streak. You know, I think like while they're like all about good vibes and stuff, I mean, they're working really hard and they are like, you are not doing us justice. It's a kind of a complicated inside baseball music industry thing, but like just too long don't read. Capricorn was like a subsidiary of one major label and then it changed a couple of times the different major labels that it was like, you know, a subsidiary ever distributed through. And those changes tended to like as 311 saw it fuck up their standing and like how they were treated.

And so once they were under UMG, Universal Music Group, 3.0.3. 11 said that, you know, we don't want to be here anymore. No one's paying attention to us. And we're not getting what we were promised in our contract. So they sue basically to be let out of the contract. And they win. They don't win damage. I think they're just let out of their contract.

So then in 2001, when they put out from chaos, it's on Volcano Records. Yeah. Jack Johnson has come out by 2001, I should want to point out. That's right. Jack Johnson, fellow UCSB alumnus. I would never have guessed. that he went to UCSB. Yeah, are you joking?

Very much so. They should be the mascot. They should literally change the, I think it's the gauchos. They should just change to the UCSB Jack Johnson's. Yeah, it is, that is the banana pancakes of colleges, for sure.

That's right. I remember. So, from chaos, they go back to Ronsangermont. I was really into From Chaos. I don't know about you. Really? Okay.

Yeah. I think I said I was in fifth or sixth grade when I got the self-titled record and then was into him a little bit, and then sound system is what brought me back in. in early high school. So from chaos is the first 3-11 record I actively anticipated.

Right. And I have very strong memories of hanging with my buddy Derek waiting for the single drop of You Wouldn't Believe, which I think was the first single. And I remember just super high anticipation, like, oh my God, I can't wait to hear what they do.

Span is so fucking sick. Like, they're going to do something amazing. Young Marty. And you wouldn't believe was a song that I eventually warmed to and fell in love with, but found it a bit underwhelming. actually when it first came out.

This despite the presence of Shaq in the video. Shaquille O'Neal is in the video, hip-checking essay, you know, crushing two-pointers. Yeah. It's a really a gorgeous video. You know, let me paint you a little picture. The year is 2001.

I am, I guess, a sophomore in college. I do wear a large selection of diesel jeans tucked into Ugg boots. I am dating a trumpet player in a rap rock. band that was like in the spiritual lineage of 311 in Supplym called El Hefe. We would go see them perform living the dream. I believe I was working at a record store. And I don't know. This album came out and I was just like totally here for it from start to finish. I loved it. This is the

year that as I had autonomy and a car and you know, no parental supervision, that my friend Sarah Jeffries and I did take off in my Chevy Blazer to drive up the coast to fall a 311 as they played their many shows. We definitely slept in the car. We went to street scene in San Diego. I have a set list that I ripped off of one of the stages. Like, I was fucking in it. I was wearing my wrap around Oakley sunglasses. It was a fucking vibe. It was a gorgeous. It must have been summer. It was a gorgeous summer. That's amazing. So that's all I got to say. That's all I have to say to you about from chaos. That's incredible. But let me ask you about this, though, because it's been my impression.

And then when I went to 311 Day in 2020 and reported on it for the AV club, it was my observation then that it seemed as though there were far more women in the audience for 311 than there were for other bands of that era or maybe of their mix. Did you feel that way? Did it feel like a more hospitable environment for you? Let me paint you a further picture. I was extremely high. the entire time. And some of the times I was on Mushrooms,

I don't know who was there. I have no idea. Their shows have always, for me, felt that way. I feel like the crowd of 311 fans because they're so bought into the like

positive energy vibe thing. Like, I never felt, it wasn't like going to a hardcore show or something. You know, not that hardcore shows are like dangerous places for women or whatever,

but like, right. I never felt any type of way at a 311 show. Same with like incubus and stuff like that. I think it's like going to like, what I assume are grateful that show is like again. I don't know. But like people are just viming.

Come one, come all. I think there's a there's a kind of like benevolent hypedness to their shows. Or at least there was then. I would say maybe a bit less now because everybody's older obviously. But in the way that like hardcore shows don't necessarily feel dangerous

but there's still a form of danger, right? Because the music is so visceral There's violence. It's not necessarily directed at people, but you might get elbowed in the nose, you know? That's unlikely to happen at a 3-11 concert, I feel like. But at the same time, there is the space to sort of, you know, the music is still loud, it's still heavy, it's still aggressive. I think I did crowd surf, though. Really? Who can say it all blends together. I certainly crowd surfed at the warp tour when I saw them and lost a shoe and then watched the shoe get thrown back and forth over the crowd at the Pontch of Train Center in New Orleans. Did you ever retrieve it? I did, yeah. After the set, I got it, and then I went and watched less than Jake.

I skinned my knees in a less than Jake Pitt when I was 15. I will never forget. Yeah, I think I like this album. It sounds like, and I don't know, and there's, there are still some like, sort of, you know, for lack of a better word, hard or rock rocky songs on here. Sick tight. Yeah, exactly, exactly. But I think like by and large, it's just a more, it's just a super mellow album. Like this is the album of like put it on. Like you wouldn't believe like you said, it's maybe a little underwhelming to you, but it's a beautiful song.

I'll be here a while is a beautiful, just vibe-ass song. Obviously Amber, everyone knows about Amber. Of course. The song that is allegedly about Nicole Scherzinger of the Pussy Cat Dolls. Allegedly.

And then I love champagne. Yeah, beautiful song. I think champagne is a banger. Do I know what it's about? No, what are these lyrics? I have no idea. The beginning is I will never understand you. When will I stop trying?

That's me to Nick Hexum about his lyrics, but like it's fine. Yeah, champagne, California on the brain. She's got an appetite for no refrains. She doesn't like refrains. She just likes verses, babe. Yeah. Love it. Who doesn't like refrains?

I mean, like, if you don't like the chorus, why are you listening to 311? Oh, she made an alliance to the dark side of Hollywood. I love this song. You know what? Let's fucking hear. I was going to say, yeah, we should listen to it. This is champagne. That was champagne.

God damn gorgeous, beautiful song. Also, I must say the line she wants to love me with threats is like unnaturally poignant for a Nick-Hexam lyric and I love it. This song is like probably about a breakup if I had to guess. I don't know. Yeah, it definitely seems like I think it's a great example of a sort of slightly, maybe not peppy, but it's a smooth sounding 311 song that's not super happy. Yeah, totally.

Like this song is kind of a bummer. Maybe those are my favorite kind. Beautiful disaster I think falls in that category too. Totally. It's like a beautiful, vibey song that's like about kind of a little dark subject matter. Right. You know, in come original, Nick says, you know, it's full range of emotions, full range of styles. And I think the idea that they were sort of like Pollyannaish or, you know, stupidly positive or something kind of doesn't really hold water.

And I think a song like Champagne is proof of that because this is a song where like it sounds like whatever's going on between Nick and this woman. and it doesn't sound super great and he doesn't sound very happy about it, you know. That's, that's right. He doesn't want to carry her bags or her debts. Or her debts, which is like, I've never really thought about that lyric before, but that's a really odd thing to put her on blast for her.

It could be metaphorical, though. Maybe it's like metaphorical, you know, and like baggage. Yeah, that's true. I also, just am speculating that this song as Nicole Schrozener, because you know she's a songwriter, so maybe she's the one that didn't, you know, like versus. Anyways, that's just a little us weekly moment.

for us. What don't you like about this album? Or rather, like, what were you hoping it had and it doesn't have? Well, I don't want to say that I didn't like it when it came out, because I did like it a bunch, and I played it constantly. And, you know, I loved Amber as a single. I thought Amber was a great song. I think, like, I'll be here a while, which we already mentioned, obviously. Like, you know, that song is basically their attempt to rewrite Lost in the Supermarket by The Clash. It's the closest they have to a true ska song I think that song is fantastic So there are a lot of songs on this record

That I do really like But I do think it's the moment where Nick Sort of begins to Let himself down a bit lyrically Not in his themes Because he's continuing to kind of address The idea of positivity And remaining positive

And learning to see things in a better light but he's sort of allowing these clunker lyrics in that are so bad that you can't help but notice them. Like what? If dealing with punks was school, I'd have a Harvard degree is the first one that pops into my mind. There's the 3-11 you want to get next to them.

My name is Nick H-E-X-U-M. I like that one. Nothing wrong with spelling your name out. That's a classic hip-hop trope. He's just falling on the footsteps of many rappers. That's a good point. You can't malign him for that. Also, he like fell in love with rap music

through Sugar Hill Gang, and I feel like that's very apparent. That's true. That's a good point. There's, oh, the, what do you know, all of a sudden, huh, I usurp you, look it up in the dictionary to find out what I do, which is a very, like, you know that bit in Arrested Development when Job learns what the word circumvent means or circumnavigate or whatever it is, and he then proceeds to use it technically correctly, but awkwardly.

It's like, oh, Nick learn the word usurp while he was writing this song. It's kind of what it feels like. But at the same time, I do think there's a lot of interesting stuff happening musically on this album. I think the melodies especially on the song, Un Calm, are really, really sharp. And in fact, I would say they're so sharp that Animal Collective ripped them off for the song My Girls. Whoa. I really like Uncalm. Yeah, the melody and the harmony in that song, I think, is actually quite good. To me, like at this point in my life, I think it's a kind of uneven record.

And at the time, it was a little bit of a grower for me, is what I would say. Let's play one more song off this album. What do you want to hear? Let's play Uncombe. Okay, cool. I love Uncom. Oh, we didn't play any of the single. Look at us.

Good for us. This is Uncalm. That was Uncalm. I'm dying to know what it means you and me on Plymouth Rock. Is it just like we've discovered a new territory, which is our relationship? Yeah, I think so. That's a good lyric. You have to get to see, that balances it out.

That's like a deep historical... reference that he is using to apply to his relationship. Like, that's true that nobody really was using the pilgrims as a metaphor for a relationship in 2001. Who else has used the pilgrims coming to America

and a journey of discovery to talk about their relationship? I should also clarify that I don't think that Animal Collective literally stole those harmonies, but I do think that there's a certain tanginess to them. that is remarkably similar. I should also clarify that I don't think that the pilgrims discovered America

and that I know that they were colonizers and that this was actually probably a poorly thought through a metaphor. What do you think the Salvador dolly honeymoon is? I don't know. Maybe like the clock is melting away and they're not paying attention to time because they're enjoying each other so much. All right, S.A. Martinez.

I feel like it's probably something like that. Either that or Nick grew like a little pencil-thin-mustache. He would look good in it. He looks good in anything. Okay, so from chaos, I mean, Amber, though we didn't play it in full, Amber is a huge, huge hit. Right. Right?

Like, besides Love Song, which is a cover, it doesn't come until a little bit later. I think that's their biggest song, right, to date. Yeah. I think Down technically charted higher, but... Yeah, because there was charts back then. And also it was not that they're... There's not charts down me, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rock was formidable in the mid-90s, whereas rock was barely eking through in 2001. I think Down was technically the bigger hit on the modern rock charts. I think I could be wrong about that. But Amber is certainly the song that I think has lingered the longest in the cultural memory. I think it had a bigger impact at the time, too, than Down did. Amber is like there don't speak.

Yeah. It's like an eternal song that will be played on like adult contemporary radio stations. from here until the end of time. Right, yeah. I mean, anybody who's roughly our age or whatever, who was a 3-11 fan who gets married, plays that song at their wedding. It's that, it's that song for them.

Funnily enough, when we get to Love Song, we'll talk about producer Dylan's cousins who did have their first dance to 3-Eleven's version of love song. Beautiful. That's real. And good for them. Okay, well, you mentioned, I just have to say this because you'll give us the opportunity to clip it.

You mentioned Shaq being in the video for You Wouldn't Believe, The reason he was in the video for you wouldn't believe is because Nick Hexham and Chad Sexton had joined Corns Fieldy and playing on a song by Shikila O'Neill, Neal, called Psycho, which I don't believe ever came out. He had put together material for an album that I don't think was ever released. Song is called Psycho. And then at the K. Rock Weenry roast in 2001, they played and they did bring out Shaq and also Fieldy and also inexplicably Nicole Scherzinger. And they did do the song, Psycho. Shack, Shack, it's important to note, arrives in a helicopter in the middle of 3-11 set, and touches down backstage at Irvine. I'm not sure what the pavilion would have been at that time, but... It was the Verizon Wireless Amphitheater maybe by then? I'm not sure, but... I'm not sure.

Otherwise, it's Irvine Meadows. That's right. That's what I'm thinking of. Yeah. It changed into the Verizon Wireless Amphitheater. That's right. I've only been to three-fifths or five-thirds or whatever the fractional amphitheater they have there is now. It's weird.

It's a cool space. Okay. Anyway, yeah, so Shack arrives via a helicopter in the middle of the... set and comes on stage with them. And I think it shows what kind of cachet 311 had because this is 2001 when Shaquillo O'Neal was the most famous basketball player on the entire planet of Earth. Oh yeah. The Lakers were the fucking gods.

This is when I was like deep in my basketball fandom and deep in my Laker fandom. They were winning champions left and goddamn right, babe. Yeah. It was the best time to be a Laker fan. And Shack comes out there. And I should also say as somebody who grew up in Louisiana, Shaq played college ball, Louisiana State University. you claim him also?

Oh, do I ever? I saw Shaq when I was, when I was eight years old, my dad took me to Baton Rears to see him play, and he meant a lot to me already. So to see Shaq and 3-Eleven come together was like one of the most important things to ever happen in my life. And the song that they made is truly terrible. I suggest you don't get near me. I'm psycho and I got.

I mean, unbelievably bad. Psycho? Yes. Psycho. It sounds very 2001. It does. For me, the pinnacle of the song is when Shaq tries to lead the crowd in a chant of, fuck you, Shaq man.

And it doesn't quite work out because nobody really wants to yell that at Shaq. They're like, Shaq, we love you. We love you on your giant shoes. Why are you making us do this? He takes a basketball and launches it roughly one million feet into the air over the crowd. And then crowd serves. I mean, again, iconic. I think an even maybe stronger indication of how big 311 was at this time was that in

2002, they co-headline a tour with Jay-Z. And I want to point out that Jay-Z in 2002 is not that he's not massive now. I'm just saying, like, he was already massive. I mean, this is like H-to-the-Izzo was out, like was the biggest, biggest song.

He was huge. I mean, the blueprint had come out, you know? Like, the Black Album, producer, Dylan Poisson, doesn't come until the next year. But the blueprint was a huge album. Like, you could not turn on the radio and not hear Jay-Z. He was on MTV.

like every fucking day. And so they co-headline. And I heard an interview with Nick Hexon where he actually said that the promoters told him that 3-11 had more crowd, like it drew more crowd than Jay-Z. That seems so hard to believe.

So hard to believe. Not because 3-11 is not popular at that time, but because Jay-Z is so much more popular. It's only easy for me to believe in the sense that I think 3-11's fans are die-hard concert goers. Maybe at the time Jay-Z's fans weren't so, A, like dying to go to a show,

show with the other people performing with 311, Huba Stank, and NERD, I believe. Yeah, that's right. So maybe they were just like, this is not for me. But who knows? I just love that idea. I just love the idea of Huba Stank, NERD, J-Z, and 311 going on a huge arena tour. The Liquid Mix tour. The Sprite, Liquid Mix Tour.

Oh, man, Sprite. Thank you for your contributions to the culture. You also directed me to a 2002 interview with Nick Hexham on Loveline, K-Rox Love Line, which I don't know if by then it was nationally syndicated. probably was. I'm not sure. I grew up listening to that. Yeah, it was on in the air in Louisiana when I was growing up. So it was definitely. Yeah. So Adam Croll was the host at this time. First of all, speaking of a fucking vibe shift, babe, go ahead and go back and listen to a 2002 episode of Loveline and like wrap your mind around how much the vibe has shifted. I love this. Like the first

caller is just a guy who's like so stone being like, oh, I was wondering about like the potency of like girls like and they're like, what do you mean the potency of girls? He's like, you know, like in the down there region and they're like what? And like Nick is like, sorry, do you mean, he's so earnest. He's like, do you mean the smell? Are you talking about the smell? And this guy just like high and like making a joke. And the second, literal second question right after this is a girl who's sobbing and can't barely speak. Oh my God, I have a question for Nick. Yes. Are you laughing or crying? I'm crying. Because she's saying how 311 changed her life and saved her from suicide. And they're so meaningful to her

and she asks if he had any depression as teens and he like answers it so tenderly and sweetly. Just hang in there. It's a great, it's a great listen. He's just so, so nice. Yeah, he is, he is so generous with the girl who calls in crying like that.

Nick is kind of now, in 2022, is kind of in like therapist, life coach. 1,000% love it. Buddy, CBD, bro, mold. Yes, love this journey for him. He plays all those roles really, really well. But 2001, 2002, Nick is still like absolutely a fucking rock star. He was a rock star.

He was a goddamn heartthrob. He was still so hot. This might have been the peak of his hotness. And he's still treating his little fan like this, 18-year-old fan. Yeah. There's a moment in that interview when he says something like, I feel like all the callers have just wanted to talk about STDs. Is there anybody out there who has just like some love problems they want to get into?

He just like really wants to like sit with you and help you figure this stuff out. Yeah. Like I said, I think this is around the time when his lyrics begin to suffer. But I think he's becoming a guy who is, and I mean this genuinely, a guy who's like quite admirable, who's aware of his position in the world, he's aware of his influence in the world. And he's trying to be good and responsible and caring to people who he recognizes look up to him and have handed him that responsibility. There's a lot to be said for that. We love Nicknacks on this show. Okay. So it's 2003. We're evolving.

and thusly we're putting out an album called Evolver. Once again, Ronsangement. It's really funny. I just want to point out in various press around Evolver, and I think this gives you an insight into like how much culture has changed

and also like the different kinds of publications. Various press, he's either listed as producer, bad brain, sonic youth, or producer Creed, Tool. Because he did produce all of those bands. So it's just a little... Get you a man who, can do both. Gagea man, and we do all that, and it is Rons Saint-Germont. So they're kind of like

riding on a high, I would assume, coming off of from chaos, because, you know, it was a, it was a very popular album. Again, they've just toured, arena toured with Jay-Z. Tell me about Evolver. Evolver is a really interesting record, I think. I remember when it came out, them doing a lot of press talking about how much they'd been listening to the Beatles and how they were. Every band reaches the stage in there. in their career. We've reached the we discovered the Beatles. Even in the Love Line interview,

which is from the year before Evolver comes out, Nick talks about how he's been reading biographies of the Beatles lately. And you can hear in the record that the songs are suddenly a little bit naughtier, you know, K-N-O-T-T. Oh yeah, not like, ooh, naughty, you bad boy like that.

Yeah, certainly not naughty. No, you can hear that they're trying to approach a kind of kind of slick psychedelia. You know, it's not the same psychedelic vibe that they pursue on transistor. It's more of a like listens to Sergeant Pepper once kind of vibe. And I think some of these songs play with those things in really interesting ways, and some of them I don't think work quite as well.

They're kind of extending their song structures at this point. Every song has four or five different moving parts in it. sometimes they fit together really well. A song like I think don't dwell fits together pretty well. But sometimes a song like Creatures for a while, which was, I think it was the lead single off the record. It sure was.

Creatures parentheses for a while. Creatures parentheses for a while. It's a strange song where like the main guitar riff kind of feels like it's being played inside out. There's something that doesn't sound quite right about it to me. It's almost like they took down and like literally flipped it inside out and handed it back to you.

And the transitions from part to part feel kind of odd and unnatural. So I think they're trying their hands at something a little bit more ambitious. And I'm not convinced that it always works. Well, why don't you point us to a song where it does work? I think Don't Dwell works pretty well. I would like to hear Don't Dwell. Okay. This is Don't Dwell.

That was Don't Dwell. Marty, can you just talk to me a little about where you hear a Beatles influence in that song? Yeah, for sure. I think first of all, in the melody, there's a strong sort of John Winnon melody to the way that Nick's delivering the song there. And I think on top of that, the way the story kind of unfolds, it reminds me a little bit of Norwegian Wood. Great song. It's Nick kind of quietly, calmly recounting his interaction that he has with this mysterious person. In Norwegian Wood, the woman tells John Lennon to sit in the bath or where John Lennon finds himself sitting in the bath. In this instance, Nick just like, you know, he's just offering some life advice. He's telling her like, don't hang on to your person. problems don't dwell on them. And I think that's kind of this portrait of what this record is in that exact moment where it's like sort of Beatlesy Nick is entering therapist mode in this specific case. And I think it works. Okay. I'm with you. I mean, I don't totally hear it, but I'm going to defer to you. Well, you have to remember, like, this is like the Beatles run

through the filters of 311. So, you know, so it's still going to have like a slap base. This is the Beatles with a fucking slap base. You know, I mean, like Paul McCartney has great tone, but could he slap? We'll never know. He wouldn't even try. I have nothing to say about it. I have nothing to say about the image of Paul McCartney slapping a bass. I actually really like beyond the gray sky, too, which is like a very earnest song about a friend, Nick Haxon lost to suicide.

I think it's really pretty. Yeah. That was also weirdly a single, which I think is a very odd choice for a single. But again, in the canon of 311, not. always a happy song, sometimes a sad song. Beyond the Grey Sky is also a very beloved song for 311 fans generally. It's a song that because of its subject matter and because it handles things fairly delicately and because it's Nick wondering what he could have done to help his friend.

It's a position that a lot of people have found themselves and obviously it's a song that means a lot to a lot of people. And I think this is kind of where we see him becoming more and more aware of how he can help people by voicing the things he's been through, how that helps others to accept what they themselves have been through. Totally. Boston Phoenix wrote about this album said 311, get sensitive. I thought that was a funny way to put it. Rolling Stone did not like this album. They gave it two stars, but does it matter? I think no. The next meaningful thing that happens after Evolver, which like, I guess you could say at least like impact-wise and maybe like

cultural capital-wise was a bit of a lull after from chaos. They come right fucking back, fucking knock it out of the park, 2004. I couldn't get too much information about this because it's 2004. There is a robust interview that Nick Hexham did with About.com, but I guess Nick Hexham was sort of asked to produce several covers for the movie, 51st dates, the Adam Sandler, Drew Barrymore movie. So the love song isn't the only one he produced. because he had gotten into producing music.

But I know it's like a little sacrilege, and I'm going to say it for the fucking record. This is not the best cure cover. The best cure cover is just like Heaven by Dinosaur Jr. However, I feel like it comes in a close second. Correct. And I'll tell you why. Love song where The Cure is like yearning and emotional and beautiful,

but it's not sexy, right? But somehow Nick Hexum and Coe have made this song sexy. Like their cover is sexy. It's like vibe and sexy. They basically yossified love song, if you will. Yeah, I think that's fair to say. One of the things that I love about their cover of love song, actually I'm going to say that the only thing that I love about their cover of love song

is that this song exists because of Adam Sandler. Hell yeah. Not only because it was in the 51st date soundtrack, but in the sense that Adam Sandler literally said to Nick Hexham, hey, you guys ought to cover Love Song by The Cure. So they did. So we have the Sandman to thank for this. Well, thank God because, you know, we spent our high school cover band covering the Cure songs.

So I am right here to do this. Right. This cover is sort of the kind of like melancholiness that is obvious in the original version by The Cure. The way it's turned into this kind of melancholy reggae is a sound that they've been working on basically from the very beginning or maybe from grassroots. You know, when you look at a song like Luz. It's very much in their lineage. Yeah, totally. No, I agree.

It just, I mean, it just works. It sounds right. For those of you wondering, the other covers on this, I don't think it's an existing soundtrack. I don't think it's an existing soundtrack. I guess you could have probably bought it. Lair is also Seal doing lips like sugar. Jason Maras singing, I Melt With You.

I'll stop the world and melt with you. And Nicole Sherer is singing her singing Breakfast in which is a UB40 song. And the guy from Alien Ant Farm singing another cure song Friday and I'm in love. Those are real. So this is a huge,

massive, massive, massive, massive song. They do like a video for it where Nick Hexham, to my dismay, has gone brunette and is there performing in like a tiki bar type situation. It was a moment in history. They put out another album in 2005. Yeah.

Don't tread on me. Yeah. The oddly titled, we've gotten into a very bizarre place in mainstream rock music in 2005. It's Green Day American Idiot, Disturbed. Nickelback is going fucking strong. Franz Ferdinand is on the scene. Panic at the disco. Whole play has made a huge splash. Oh yeah, because yellow came out when I was like a freshman in college. Also a goddamn gorgeous, beautiful song I must say. And the phrase, how to save a life, which if you listen to the show, you know that I fucking love. that song. It's a goddamn gorgeous, beautiful song. This is the environment into which Don't Tread on Me is being released, or is it? It's just being released for 311 fans at this point. And that's okay. Ron Saint-Germain is back. Tell me about don't Tread on Me. So don't Tread on Me is a really interesting record. Again, it's called Don't Tread on Me, a phrase that I'm not sure had quite the same resonances in 2005 that it

does now. It has a Shepard Ferry album cover. Damn. Tell me something more fucking 2005 than that, Yeah, incredible. I mean, they beat Obama to the punch, which is pretty impressive, in my opinion. The record itself is pretty widely considered to be, by 311 fans at least, maybe their worst record. It's not highly thought of by most people. And to be honest with you, I'm not quite sure why, because it feels a little bit more back to basics after the more expansive stuff on Evolver. But for some reason, it just didn't connect with the general public, although the title track, I think, was a minor hit, and it certainly did not connect with

the deep fan base who again, really to this day hold it in very low regard. Although there are some okay songs on it, some songs that I think are, you know, passable, certainly not anything that I ever reach for. But this is the point, like you just said, like this is the point where 311 starts to begin

to make records for 311 fans rather than for the public at large, I think. And I'm not sure that they were quite able, to pull it off on this one. Listen, I'm not mad at don't tread on me, the title single. No? I don't know. I mean, maybe I was driving on the sunshine and just like feeling a good vibe.

Also, whiskey and wine, while maybe not totally perfectly executed, I felt like had a good idea. And I'm like generally I like the vibe. It almost felt like an extension of the cover of love song. You're like, let's take this vibe a little further, write our own original song around it, throw a rap in it. Yeah. We don't need to play a song off this album if it's universally, you know, maybe not a favorite. I do want to point out that because of what the music industry was like in 2005, this album sold 91,000 copies in its first week of release, and that got it to number five on the billboard chart.

That's incredible. That's how few people were buying CDs, even fewer now, I suppose. maybe more importantly than Don't Tread on me and also funnily enough, coming on the heels of that title, in December of 2005, 311 gets in a fucking brawl with Scott Stapp of greed. Unexpected. It's amazing that they made a record that was not super well loved,

so they went and did the thing that would make the world love them the most, which was beat the shit out of Scott Stap. Oh my God, that's a great take on it. In their defense, they're a piece. peaceful and pacifist band. Yes. And Scott Stapp was allegedly belligerently wasted and was like being aggressive towards them, doing shots, throwing shot glasses at them, sort of harassing essay's wife, I think.

Yeah. The story goes that it was it was Thanksgiving night at a hotel. Right, because they were on tour. They had just had their giant Thanksgiving meal. By this point, most of the guys in the band, maybe all of them are married and their families are all out with them. And they're unwinding after their big, luxurious meal in the hotel bar and in swagger's Scott Stap, fresh from God knows what.

And he becomes belligerent. He yells. He screams. He, like you said, he... Yeah, they were apparently like trying to watch the Laker game or something. And so on point for them to be watching the Laker game when this happens. This is my favorite part. So, essay says, yeah, like before the whole situation escalated, he was telling us how he'd been

to a show of ours in Florida where he got up on stage that he was so thankful. that we didn't kick him off. He was saying, you have no idea that you guys being so cool to me would inspire me to start a band and for me to sell 30 million records,

win a gram, VMA's, Billboard Awards. He just went on and all like some drunk guy who wouldn't shut the fuck up. Well, we would just want him to watch the game.

Like, do you know how much of a dick you have to be to push S.A. Martinez to that point? Like, these are guys who do not do things like this. Just amazing.

Apparently at some point he crossed the line in some way with one of their wives. I don't know if there was words said or if there was touching or what, but that prompted a flurry of physical responses from the band,

I think. From what I've heard, Chad Sexton, like really wailed on him and Peanut sprinted across the room to jump on him, which is a hilarious image. No, do you know how it started?

Scott sucker punch Chad. He sucker punched him? Yeah. Wow. I haven't heard that. 3-11 hadn't even gotten physical. Chad just came over to Assay's table where Scott was being all wasted,

and he came over. over to just be like, hey man, you know, could you not disrespect anybody? We're all friends here. And then he just like punched him right in the face. Wow. That's probably the one way to get a response out of those guys, I would think. And then the last thing I'll say about this, because it's adorable, is that

SA then punched Scott Stap and he got a boxer's fracture on his hand. And luckily he is not a member of 3-11 that plays an instrument. That's right. And he said, he played a show the next day and he said, it was different because I'm used to holding the mic in that hand. Thankfully, I can

They'll bust a move. Amazing. Adorable. My very good friend, Colin, saw 311 at their very next show, and he ended up meeting Essay and Tim Mahoney either before or after the show. An essay had his hand all bandaged up. And when he left, Colin said to Tim Mahoney, like, well, what happened? Like, what happened to Essay's hand?

And Tim didn't want to tell him, but said something like, think of the funniest thing you can possibly think of. That's what happened. And then, of course, months later it came out that, yeah, that's exactly would happen. So funny. I mean, we won't even talk about like why was Scott Stapp solo project on tour with 311? Or maybe they were just at the same hotel. I'm not really sure. Right. But it doesn't seem like a likely pairing. Yeah, I think he just wandered in it. I don't think they were on the road together or anything. Okay. I brought one more thing to read to you,

which is MTV News 2008. I don't even have to read you any of the content of it. Just the headline. 311 are the new Grateful Dead. Hmm. Yep. Yep. Who said that before? Who was me? earlier. That was you. It was definitely you. It wasn't prior to 2008. That's true. It was just simply earlier. No, but you did you did say it before you just said it. That's right. Exactly. Chad Sexton does say they have some deadheads in the band and basically the Grateful Dead I guess had stopped touring at this point. It wasn't now that they had restarted touring. They said Fish kind took over for them and maybe Dave Matthews band has some of the appeal. But like, you know, he's kind of indicating that we could be also in this lineage. Yeah. I always wonder how

how much of a role that one horde tour has played in the way 311 sees themselves and in the way that certain kinds of people see 311. Because if he's not wrong, like there is still that contingency. I saw them at the Hollywood Palladium in 2017, I think,

and like you've got like the dudes out front selling hand-blown pipes and who are following them on tour. They'll bring the head shop to you, babe, if you're at a 3-11 show. They will totally. And I mean, you know, they recently were like selling a tied-eyed shirt with like the Grateful Dead's dancing skeletons,

but with like a big 311 logo on top. It was probably dancing alien skeletons because that would have been copyright infringement. Yeah, they can't just make that their own merch. No. I mean, again, to me, it spiritually completely fits. So I see no issue.

I still am not sure, though, about like what... I think your brain is not smooth enough is the problem. You're overthinking it. You're using your critic brain here. Yes. Where you just need to use your vibes brain. That's true. I mean, okay.

Actually, that's... is very clarifying because the reason people follow the Grateful Dead on tour is partly the music and partly the vibes, right? And the music changes every night. The music is new every night because there are so many improvised sections. 311 does not improvise.

They don't do that kind of stuff. They don't switch up the set list a whole ton. But the vibe is very tasty. And so I can understand the idea of following it so that you get just a little nibble of that vibe again as you go up and down, say the California coast. So I'm being turned on to this idea, I would say. I would argue that most people that first came to a Grateful Dead show

probably never even heard the goddamn music. They were just showing up for the vibe. And then now, you know, 300 shows later, they're going to corner me at a bar and tell me about like the musical fucking importance of the Grateful Dead. And I don't give a shit. I know you went there to drop ass. I didn't have fun and just say that. I don't care.

Leave me alone. I didn't even ask. Okay. Uplifter comes out. Like Bob Rock, listen, I don't know who's going right. I don't think he's like, I'll be. who's like a sliding scale pay-as-you-go kind of guy. Like, I assume Bob Rock is quite expensive.

And this is post some kind of monster. Right. Most beautiful film. Madly in anger with you. My lifestyle is my fucking death style. Put some respect on it. I love to think of Nick Hexon thinking about the lyric, my lifestyle determines my death style.

He probably would probably, yeah, because he would certainly agree. I don't think that I disagree necessarily. How could you possibly disagree with that? It's airtight logic. So Bobbert Rock is on the scene. Nick Hexham says that they worked with him just after he had finished working with Metallica through their very difficult time that was documented to be some kind of monster.

And Nick was like, I'd say something like, that part's really boring. And Bob would say, you might just want to say that in a different way because that's very finger pointy. Someone's going to feel bad. That was somebody's idea and find a positive way to say I'm really into this. Because no one can argue with that. If you started with an eye statement, it's not going to be as controversial as if you say that part's lame or this part's boring. So Bob Rock is carrying the fucking torch of Phil Towell into his future projects. It really made an impact on him.

Absolutely. The man took notes when he was working with Metallica, for sure. Let me ask you about Oblifter because my notes just say here that it's like, I don't know that I like the combination of Bob Rock in 311. No, I don't know that I do either. The songs are still good. It's the production. I mean, he's doing what Bobbert Rock does, right? Yeah. But it's a little crunchier.

It's a little, like, crisper in certain ways. It's more rock. He's bringing the rock. The guitars on this record are so loud and so shiny. Yeah. You can see the chrome practically in the production on this record. It doesn't feel very 311-e, even though the songs aren't super different. They're not approaching them from a different way.

You know, the lead single, Hey, You has this sort of loud intro, but then it does move into a little reggae section, and then it gets into its little peppy chorus and stuff. And I think it's probably an interesting song in terms of how it's written, but the production doesn't feel like welcoming in the way that a lot of 311 records do. Like 311 albums want you to feel at ease, and they want you to feel like you can participate in it.

And I think the sound is so huge on this record that it's a bit alienating. 311 album should be a giant couch that's made out of a soft fur that is also simultaneously warm and cold that you can just sit in while someone feeds you nachos. And this is not achieving to me that feeling. No, no. This is more of like the most expensive couch at home goods or something. Not even at home goods. This is like the most expensive couch at like one of those like prestige. Italian-imported modernist furniture stores.

But let's hear Hey-U. I actually do like the song Hey-U, despite it being a little cold in its production. This is Hey-U. That was Hey-U. Fun, catchy. Yeah, it's a very catchy song. I think it's, again, it's a bit of a clunker. As a lyric, the sort of central turn is like, you think the whole song,

he's singing about like a person, like a friend or a woman, like a romantic partner. But as it turns out... Is he singing about marijuana? Not even. It's music. Oh. The very last line, or maybe the very last repetition of the chorus, he says, music, I've got to tell you, you're my long-time friend. You're my constant companion, I believe is what he says.

Companion. Whether it's... One of the weird things, too, about this song, and that I think is kind of becoming a little bit of a hallmark of Nick. Using a word that doesn't quite seem like the right word again, like, I don't know why he says, you're my longtime friend instead of, like, my oldest, friend or something like that. It just always seems tinny to me when I hear it. Awesome. It's not for us to, you know, cast dispersions on Nick Hexon's diction. We're all different. This is why he says that he's not afraid of a guy who's never been in a mix about music critics because

He's talking about you. He's talking about me. Yeah, that's right. That's someone me who's definitely been in the mix. He's not talking about me. No, surely not. Okay. So quick footnote, we're going to stop in June of 2011 for me to mention that Nick Texam did deliver his own child, his second daughter. What can't this man do is what I'm saying? His doula was not able to come on time. And not only did he deliver his second daughter, Maxine, she got lodged in the motherfucking birth canal, bro, okay? And he was like, you know what? I knew from observing and listening the first time around that sometimes the baby's shoulder would get caught and they would have to reach in there and break its collarbone to free her. I reached my fingers in there and felt the

shoulders and rotated the baby back and forth. This man, I'm thinking of my ex-boyfriends. I'm like, which one of them would have reached in there and turned the baby around when fucking push came to shove? Who would step up and show up like that? I could not see it. This episode, we don't have to fire producer Dylan because she has quit. She is, this is the straw that broke producer Dylan's back. Birth is a beautiful thing. Natural birth is a beautiful thing. And I don't know what's wrong with you. To me, the part of that quote that sticks out the most is him saying, watching and listening the first time around. Exactly.

Like he was paying attention when his first daughter was born. That's right. My man's was there. Eye contact present. Okay. That's right. God bless him. Yeah.

I think we're now firmly in the era of where 311 is not making their best music, but where he is genuinely becoming like one of the better people in California. In the country. Again, show me another man who was like, I paid such fucking close. attention to my wife's first home birth that I was able to basically deliver a fucking problem birth where I had to rotate a fetus. Show me another person. Incredible.

All while looking gorgeous with perfect skin and in complete gorgeous shape keeps his body trim king. King. You know, Nick's Huxem's wife is named Nikki, Nick and Nikki Huxem. That's right. It couldn't get more perfect. No. So just one month after he heard.

heroically delivers his own child. The next 311 album comes out. We're getting a little close to 311 going indie, like independent, putting out their own albums. This one is a co-release, right? Right. And once again, Universal Pulse produced by Bobbert Rock. This record is only 29 minutes long. What's up with this? Right. Yeah, it's only eight songs. And they don't call it an EP. They call it an album. Right. Yeah. It is definitely considered an album, 29 minutes, eight songs. You know, I mentioned earlier that that Don't Tread on Me is considered sort of the Nidier. Universal Pulse is the other one that most 311 fans think is probably their least compelling work. Again, it's only eight songs.

There's not a lot there. I think their idea at the time, like a lot of bands who release very short records, for whom that's not kind of their predominant way of doing things, is I think they just didn't have a ton of ideas. Yeah. And they sort of shipped it as like, well, this is us kind of trying to get back to basics, trying to like strip it down and be lean and all that kind of stuff. But, you know, I think they just, the songs weren't there.

Yeah. I mean, listen, Sunset in July is kind of fun. It's a decent song. Yeah. There's moments on here. But yeah, I hear you. I didn't make a lot of notes around this eight song album. No thoughts.

One thing that I do think is worth mentioning is that the opening track Time Bomb, first of all, it's a lyrical co-write with Peanut, which had never happened on a 3-11 record before. They finally let Peanut read some fucking words? Which was Bob Rock's idea. Bob Rock brought him into the... Classic some kind of monster moment. They passed the fucking pad of paper around.

You know they did. Yeah. Peanut gives the line, let me introduce you to the excitable crew, which is the first line of the chorus of the song, Time Bomb. And this is an explicit reference to 311's fan base, which they refer to themselves as the excitables, which is based off a lyric in the song,

tribute from the mid-90s. It's a moment where I think they've kind of crossed the line into a more explicit brand of fan service by straight up calling out the fan group in that way that I think it doesn't quite work as a lyric and it just feels a bit strange to me when I hear it. Yeah, let's move on.

We have a lot more to get through because God bless them. They have not stopped. Yeah, true. Quick sidebar in 2013, Nicholas Lofton Hexham does put out not a solo album per se, but an album under the moniker

the Nick Hexum Quintet called My Shadow Pages. Listen, I listened to this. I did not dislike it. It's fine. There's not much there to hold on to. We haven't even talked about how our king, Nick Hexham, was also very political and, like, toured with his brother around the country. Yes.

Trying to get John Kerry elected and defeat George Bush. Like, again, my king. Devoted, civic-minded, a doctor. Like, again, he is the best. Yeah, and that 2002 interview from Loveline, he goes on and on. about how the impending war in Iraq is all about, you know, money and special interests. And he's quite passionate, which I had never actually heard from him before, which is kind of cool. Yeah. There's a cover of a Bob Marley song on this Nick Hex and Quintet album, Waiting in Vane.

I don't want to wait in vain. The next album, that's a 311 album, comes out in 2014. Stereolithic. It is stylized as STR30L-1, TH-T-H-1C. This is the first truly independent 3-11 release. I don't know what happened with Bob Rott Rock. I don't know if it was because it was an independent release. We can afford Bob Rock. I have no idea.

But Scott Charleston is back. They're a friend who's done a lot of good production for them, I think. I once again don't have many notes on this album. No, I don't either. But I do know that Stereolithic is considered by 311 fans to be their late career peak. Really better than Voyager? Because I really like Voyager. Really? Okay, well, I'm really interested to get to Voyager then.

Yeah. Yeah, I think people really, really like Stereolithic a lot. I think part of it is returning to working with Scotch because Scotch was present for their, you know, what a lot of people consider their best work. Right. And after two records of gigantic shrink-wrapped guitars from Bob Rock, I think kind of the return to something that's more hospitable

and more obviously 3-Eleveny, I imagine, was very exciting for their fans. The reason I don't have notes isn't because I dislike it. I think it's probably because what I mentioned earlier is I took to the car to vibe to the albums instead of sitting in front of my computer. So not able to make notes. But I'm trying to think I really like five of everything. I think that's a really nice song. Yeah, that's a good song. There's a song in there called Revelation of the Year, which sounds unlike any 311 song that I know of in that it's got an almost like, it's like this sort of swinging pirate type song with a very,

weird, like, almost high-ho-ish guitar line that is very fun and loose and even silly. They've not often been silly on records with a few very notable exceptions and certainly not this late in their career. So I think Revelation of the Year, to me, it's like the highlight track on this record. Why don't we hear it? This is Revelation of the Year. That was Revelation of the Year. I couldn't see what you're saying. It does feel like kind of old school 311. Yeah, the lead guitar there almost sounds like wean too, which is a really strange and slippery and fun thing for them, I think. Okay. The wean people who listen will be happy to hear that or sad. We don't know. Depends on their feelings about 311. I don't know of wean people being sad that often.

Because they're stunned. Again, wean another band following in the footsteps of the Grateful Dead with the, you know, we just came here to have a fucking good time, babe. We're just here to vibe. So the next record, I'm glad you told me that. I think I didn't have any handle on what the like R-3-11 community felt about these like back half of the career of 311 albums. And so you would say this is kind of their favorite of the bunch. Yeah, I think so. I mean, there are some people who would say Mosaic as a stronger record. But I think generally speaking, Stereolithic tends to be viewed as the late career high water mark. That is crazy and she me.

I feel like Voyager is better than both of them. Voyager, I think, I'm excited to talk about Voyage. Okay. So Mosaic comes out in June of 2017, Scott Ralston, and then also produced by John Feldman, who has the singer-gatrist of Goldfinger, and also like a big songwriter and producer a fucking love Goldfinger. You're in your bedroom hive, stand-up. Mosaic did debut at number six on the U.S. Billboard 200.

Just want to point that out, 39,000 album equivalent units is what it took. But let me show you about 311 fandom. 37,000 of those 39,000 were actual album sales. Purchase the compact disc or the vinyl, who notes? My notes just say back to form, exclamation points, and then I love too much to think. Okay, you love too much to think. Do you not like it?

I do not like this record. At all. You're just a hard pass on Mosaic. Yeah, I'm a hard pass on Mosaic. I think there are one or two moments. I think Days of 88 is kind of sort of interesting. I like that essay gets something to do there. I feel like in these late 311 records essay

kind of recedes into the background and isn't really given a lot to do other than the singing harmonies with Nick. So the fact that he does get a little bit of space on Days of 88, I think is cool. Too much to think. I don't know if it's just that I can't get past the central lyrical conceit.

You know, the, I don't know if you caught the pun. It is literally what we've been saying this whole time. We just vibes, babe. No thoughts, just vibes. We are sober from thinking. We have gotten our 10-year chip of sobriety from thoughts, and we are pure fucking vibes, babe. But I think at this point, like,

the songs aren't presenting themselves that way anymore. You know what I mean? Like, I think it's kind of the exact opposite, where they want you to be thinking about this a lot, you know, because Nick's got a message. And again, it's a good message. But the way it's being delivered is silly. And not in like a fun way, like revelation of the year is.

Listen, I think we just have a different take on this. And that's okay. We can agree to disagree. There's therapy language in here. Illuminate the shadow and try to keep the light within. That is an important tenet of psychology. You do need to eliminate the shadow within. You can't be rejecting your shadow or else you're going to.

I feel strife. That's right. I just feel that you're not giving Nicholas Lofton Huxem his credit that he deserves. Again, I will give Nick immense credit for his ideology, for his way of looking at the world. And I mean that sincerely. Like, I really do, because he could have, you know, given into the clarion call of the void, as he might have put it in 1996 or something. And the fact that he has, like, chosen to give his audience this kind of language and this kind of way

of thinking about themselves and their minds and their relationships is really beautiful. I just don't think it translates as very compelling songwriting. What about as I walk through the valley of the shadow of L.A.? Yeah. Yeah, what about that? What is, what do we think the shadow of L.A. is? It's under the bridge, babe. This is simply a continuation. This is a spiritually in conversation with Under the Bridge.

It's in the Under the Bridge cinematic universe. Exactly. There is a shadow under the bridge and he's walking in it. Okay, quickly let's talk about the gorgeous appearance on the Aragondre show. Do you remember this? Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. Huge. Amazing.

I did not regularly watch the Aragondre show is the thing that there was like always a guy who would run and say 9-11 was a conspiracy. And then they changed it to 3-11 was a conspiracy. Explain that. Or was it just that's one sketch of 9-11 as a conspiracy. Actually 3-11 is a conspiracy. My understanding is I've never watched the show that much either, though I've watched this clip many, many times. It's so good. My impression is that the investigate 311 thing was an ongoing bit.

Interesting. But I'm not sure about that. Yeah, I couldn't tell. I am sure that Eric Andre waterboarded S.A. Martinez on TV. And Nick Hexham. Yeah. They're like tied up and playing down. Right.

And then like Randall my T-Pink. comes out of nowhere. And it's like, what about T-11, bitch? And just like is running around singing down-down. It's so gorgeous. It's an amazing thing. I love this clip so much because, especially in their later career,

they've taken themselves so seriously and tried to present themselves as model men, which again is something I've lauded them for and I admire them for. But it was so shocking to see them being willing to poke fun at themselves in this way. Totally. I wonder if that's just like a thing.

of like age, right? Like, they've been around so long. I'm sure they're like mellowed out about like how they feel about themselves. Like, you know, of course, like, you don't want to be a joke band when you're on your third album and you're really like trying to like make a mark. But like, you can be in on the joke when you're like, bitch, we're fucking filling arenas in 2017 and 22. We'd love to be on the Eric Andre's show.

Thank you for inviting us. Yeah. We'll try to fly in on our private jet and we'll fly right out after. Apparently, Eric hit Nick right in the balls really hard. Without warning of any kind, Nick had no idea this is going to happen. How dare? How dare you, Eric Andre? After the recording, Nick was like, hey, what the fuck, man?

Like, that wasn't very cool. And Eric Andre, to his credit, was like, hey, I'm sorry. Here, why don't I let you get me back? So he removed a bandage from like a fresh cut he had on his finger. And he let Nick flick the cut as hard as he could. And that was his recompense. Hi, I'm Johnny Knoxville. Welcome to investigate 311.

Okay, so this is a notable moment. 2018, 311 and the offspring tour together. And what this tour yields are gorgeous dueling covers. The offspring covers 311s down. But more importantly, 311 does a regified cover of self-esteem. That's right. And you know what? It's fucking good.

Those whole time I was thinking, and maybe it's because we're so close. in episode order like we just two episodes ago did Sublime. I was like so many the inputs are the same, but the output is like so different 311 and Sublime, right? I mean, I'm sure some people would argue with that but they're wrong. In this cover,

I was like, okay, like they sound a bit like Sublime now because like that punk thing is like more front and center. I mean, I think another meaningful difference between 311 and Sublime that we haven't even talked about yet is like Sublime was a super into the sampling aspect of hip hop, which

311 really isn't. Like, they've probably sampled five things in their entire, like, you know, 22-year history. I think that gives it a very different sound, obviously. This cover of self-esteem. Gorgeous. Okay, 2019, we're finally to Voyager.

I don't know why I love Voyager so much. I think it's because, and I'm getting a little ahead, but it really feels like it's, like, just leading up to the George Clanton and Nick Hexham collaboration. Because they brought in a trance producer, an EDM trans, trans, DJ producer. Matton Zohar, along with Scott Ralston, John Feldman, and this guy Matt Malpest to produce this. And it's really vibey.

Yeah. It's certainly a very vibey record. It's definitely their most indebted to the EDM styles that were popular maybe five or six years before. But not in a bad way. Don't hear that and think in a bad way. Because it's not in a bad way. If I heard that, I would be like, that's going to be a past. I mean, to me, it's a pass.

I don't know that they're working those EDM tropes super well. With the exception of in the song, Stainless, they use the guitars the same way that a dubstep producer uses, like the wubbub of the bass. And for me, like, if I'm in the right mood, that works pretty well and I enjoy it. But, you know, a song like dodging raindrops is for me a... I liked that song.

Oh, I'm so sorry. I do not like. like that song. I think that's good. I really like the whole album. The whole album is a great vibe. You can put it on. You can drive around in your car in the sun.

Better space gets real weird. There's a real weird vocodery vocal situation. True. I love Dream State. What a gorgeous song. We just have to agree with a Superia on Voyager. I really like it. I will say that the song, Space and Time on this record is certainly the 311

2.0 song that I like the most. I think it's very pretty. I think Chad Sexton's drumming on it is fantastic. He kind of puts together this sort of skittery jazz drum situation while there's this beautiful electric piano being played on top of it. And to me, if I were so blessed as to be able to produce the next 311 record, I would want

to encourage them to check that area out a little bit more and see what they can do with some jazzier approaches. Because I think that they have, handle that stuff really well on that song. Are you throwing your hat in the ring to produce the next 311 album? I'm officially throwing my hat in the ring. It's not as big a hat as Bob Rock or Ronson-Germain or... Or even Scotch Ralston, who I know wears a big cowboy hat.

But, you know, it's a hat. If they came to the pitchfork critic to produce their next album, it would be truly something. And I hope it happens. It would be amazing. Okay. Extremely important. 20-20. George Clanton.

Yes. Vaporwave icon. Yes. The God. The God. Teams up with Nick Hexum. Paperwave, Prism. Prisoner Dillon, is Vaporave part of the vibe shift?

I'm sorry to reference the vibe shift on this program, but I think it might be a little past the vibe shift. Unfortunately, for people like me who lived through all of these vibes, I just don't, I don't acknowledge or participate in the conversation. Yeah. So tell me about this album. I know you review this. it, but like, do you have some like inside and understanding of how it came into being?

My understanding is that George Clinton, who is in, right now he's in his mid-30s, so he's a bit younger than me. He grew up a 3-11 fan in Virginia, which is another one of their huge territories. They're very popular in Virginia. And he went to see them probably on the Mosaic tour, if I had to guess. And he ended up backstage and got introduced to Nick and they got along really well. And he casually mentioned that he himself was a, was a, was. as a producer. Nick had never heard of vapor wave music before, which is not very surprising,

but he really liked the stuff of Georges that he checked out and suggested that they worked together. So they began to kind of, you know, in the classic way, sort of send files back and forth. Georgia put together productions and send it to Nick. Shout out Postal Service. Shout out to the Postal Service. Nick is definitely the Ben Gibbard of this particular arrangement. And he would, you know, he would write lyrics and sing and put melodies over and he plays some guitar as well. And the sound worked remarkably well. I think to an extent that was shocking to both of them. I don't think either of them necessarily expected it to work. But I think there's a certain nostalgia to Clanton's production generally that Nick's voice, if you were of a certain age,

really carries. And Nick himself kind of leans into his own sense of nostalgia. They ended up making a whole record together. And a lot of the songs in that album are about his early days. in Hollywood in the pre-3-11 days when he was, you know, like living in a crash pad as the song Crashpad goes or... And hanging out with Stiv Bader's from Dead Boys and doing drugs. Did you know that? Do you know he hung out

with Stiv Baders from Dead Boys? I did not know that. That's insane. Incredible. Love it. So to me, like, I think that this George Clanton and Nick Hexum record is genuinely amazing. Same.

Like, it was one of my favorite records of 2020. I played it constantly. Like, I had a lot of conversations that summer about with friends when we thought the pandemic was only going to be a six-month thing where it was like, what do you think is the record

you're going to always associate with this pandemic? And for me, it would have, you know, if it had ended then, it would have definitely been the George Clinton and the Kexam record. I think the ways the productions come together, they feel like 311 songs,

even though there's not much guitar, there's no slap bass, you know, it's mostly being done in a computer. Devoid of slap bass. But which is probably why I like it. There's a sweetness to it and a kind of kind groundedness to it that I really, really like. I love Under Your Window. Great song.

I think that's my favorite on here. How sweet is it to think of Nick Hexham under somebody's window just trying to get her attention in a non-creepy way? Love it. I love it. Well, we have a little treat for you, Marty. George Clanton himself called in and talk to us a bit about 3-Eleven and Nick Hachson. Roll that beautiful bean footage. Let's hear it. If you're a fan of 311, they're a unique band.

If you haven't really listened to 311 or, you know, know anything about them, you might think that 311 is like a fabricated product of the rap, rock industry. And I think that's where they get the short end of the stick. The way that he works is so different than me. He's just able to take a song. For example, if I've labored over a production of a song for weeks and I'm nervous that it's just like it's not good enough or it doesn't have what it needs to carry itself as a song or a single. And I send it to Nick and he just, you know, the same day could record an entire vocal with lyrics and a guitar hook that really carries the same. song and just send it back and you know now I have a complete I have a completed song and maybe I

couldn't have even have seen it myself but he could lay it down just effortlessly because he's made you know so many songs I think that it just comes off the cuff with 311 I think that they just write you know whatever flows through them without thinking about how it's fits in with, you know, what people are expecting. And even true within what 3-11 fans are expecting, I think that they sort of go against the grain with their own sound sometimes. But especially, you know, what the music industry expects or what other people expect. And yet their fan base continues to grow, even though I don't feel that they're catering

to anyone except themselves. and I think that that's what makes it so unique. You know, that's why you have a cult following for 311 because, you know, there's no one else doing it. I once publicly said that 311 is just good music for chilling with the boys too. I think that that's what I appreciate about 311 is I think it just feels, you know, I don't do too much chilling with the boys, but when I'm, you know, chilling by myself or whatever,

3-11 always puts me at ease. Beautiful. What a story. I love that George Clanton speaks in such a vibey manner. So it really fits in with exactly how I would imagine. It's true. Dream come true. Dream pairing.

It worked so, so well. I'm glad that we have this gift. I mean, again, I'm no high flute and music critics, sir, okay? and I don't know the words that you said earlier, like timber and tone. I don't know what those mean. But I do think Voyager sort of seamlessly goes into the Vaporavnick Exum album. To me, it's like, you know, they're one of a piece. I would really, really love to see the whole band use the George Clinton record as a sort of launch pad for where they go next.

I think that 311 as a band has never really gotten credit for their sort of appetite for sounds, for their willingness to try things, for their willingness to kind of experiment without losing sight of themselves. And I think that if they were to continue down this route, maybe let George make the record, I don't know. Maybe I'm not the guy to produce it. Maybe George is the guy to produce it. You're a nice guy, Marty, but my vote goes to George. for the next. He's got a little more experience than me. It's true. But I think if they were to kind of go down that road, I think they've shown that they can still open themselves up. They've shown that they can still, you know, pursue the unexpected in their music. And I think it's been a while since that has really been demonstrated by them across an entire record. So I would love to see them kind of keep pushing in that direction. I also feel like they don't get enough credit for influencing other musicians. because maybe it's like a George Clanton,

it's not such a direct influence in the sense that, you know, they're picking up the torch of mixing, you know, reggae and dub and rap and rock and, you know. But clearly, I mean, we just listened to the man pontificate and wax poetic about what a deep and meaningful impact 311 had on him as a musician. So I'm sure there's a lot of other, you know, musicians and they're like early to late 30s that came up on 311 and have some aspect of that incorporated into what they make now.

Yeah, no doubt. And I think it would be great to sort of to hear from more of those musicians and hear how... Yeah, come forward, you cowards. Speaking of mega fans like George Clanton, we have reached the portion of the show where we hear from some 311 fans that are not afraid to say they love 311

with their whole fucking chest, babe. They exist, and we found them. Here they are. 311's intertwining of high-energy metallic rifts, Nick Hexham's sultry singing, and S.A. Martinez's juiced-up rhymes stimulated my prepubescent brain in a way that nothing else ever had. They're such an energetic and tight live band as well. I really respect them as musicians. The culture behind 3-11 and the fan base is,

really what got us. And the reason why we were so invested was because 3-Eleven toured every single year. You know, the one thing we would count on in the summertime is to see a 3-Eleven show. 3-Eleven show was kind of like a write-of-passage in my high school. And it was the first time where you got to experience this incredible community that this band has built. I truly believe 3-Eleven are saints and all back them to the grave. I always joke that whenever I get married, I'm going to have my first dance to 3-Eleven's Amber. I'm half-joking, but half-serious.

We would always go to Irvine Amphitheater and I will never forget the first show they played. All the fans in the back collected trash and they palled it up into one big mountain. someone had gasoline, poured it all over and lit a match, set that thing on fire, and started, and people started taking their clothes off, lighting their shirts, twirling around. My joke is that in my house there's only one blue album to catch my drift. I only have one sticker on my current vehicle, and it's a 3-11 sticker. I love strolling around flaunting that thing everywhere I go, when I know it's like holy water to a vampire for 95% of the cool,

kids in Los Angeles. Everybody there is just on the same wavelength. Everybody's down for the unity. Everybody is just all about positivity. They were just nice people. You know, I never felt like I was in danger hanging out with these people as a 16-year-old. And any time I was homesick, I would play 3-11 and make sure that I, you know, it sets me back to my childhood in in Southern California. I still love 311 and I hope that they hear me praise them on the best podcast in the world, which is fans playing. I'm screaming, I'm living. I mean, the man that used this opportunity to also dis Weezer. Perfect.

I mean, I don't agree, but I just was like, wow, interesting. These people would lay down in fucking traffic for 3-11. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that is the shared thing. And here's the thing. You can make fun of 3-11 as much as you want the whole goddamn live long day, babe. But bands do not inspire this kind of devotion anymore. Like, this doesn't happen.

It's like, you know, once in a generation, maybe a handful of times, there are people that will fill arenas for, you know, another decade and get the tattoos. We had to cut off the fan voice submissions because too many came in. We were like, no, no, we have enough. So they did something fucking right. Yeah, I totally agree. I think a lot about bands who were scoring hits when they were getting their biggest hits. And I think like, you know, like Sugar Ray, I think probably had more success at the time.

But Sugar Ray doesn't have the kind of connection with their fans. Sugar Ray is playing the county fair now. I'll tell you that much right now. They're on the county fair circuit. That is fine. We love the county fair. Yeah, totally. They're not packing an arena for two days in Las Vegas on three of,

11 day. No, no, they're absolutely not. I live in Long Beach and I've heard people talk about seeing Sugar Ray play at parties. I'm not saying that that's all Sugar Ray is doing, but that may be partful what they're doing. And you know what? They did exactly what they said out to do. They said it time and time again, we'd rather have no hits and play forever and have a dedicated fan base and that's exactly what they did. But they did have hits. They had fucking hits, babe. Yeah. And I have two pavement tattoos. I'm the kind of person that would get a pavement tattoo and maybe not a 311 tattoo. But even pavement. fans are not going to lay down in traffic for Stephen Malcolm. It's not the same energy. No. Pritz or Dillon doesn't like this, but I did think the lyric, thought a freak might be a thing, but you know this will pass. So just get off of your ass. It's actually spiritually connected to the lyric. Is it a crisis or a boring change? Can you explain that? Yeah, because what he's saying is thought a freak. I think he's trying to say freak out, but it didn't fit. Thought a freak might be a thing, but you know this will pass. And is it a crisis or a boring change?

Whereas Malcolm was just saying, are you having a crisis, babe, or is this just a boring change? Just a different way of saying the same thing. That's fair. Prish-Dillan doesn't like it. No one likes it. I like it.

I think that's a very good reading. I think more and more people need to be bringing readings of 311 and pavement next to each other. And with that, we will wrap out. Actually, I'm just kidding. We're not wrapping out the episode. We're not wrapping up the episode until I talk about the Psychology Today profile of Nick Hexham,

The heavy positivity of Nick Hexum where he says gratitude to me that's almost like an action, having a mental gratitude list to focus on the things that are working because our minds are going to want to focus on the 10% of our life that we want to change, even if 90% is positive. When my internal self-talk turns negative and I'm beating myself up and I have a thought like, I'm an idiot, I'll catch myself and counter that by saying an affirmation like, I'm worthwhile and contributing to the world. I just want to leave you all with that. Okay?

What would Nick Hexham do? WWNHD. Marty, thank you so much for joining me on this show. If I ever didn't thank you, let me do it now. Thank you so much for having me here. I was delighted that you asked me to talk about 311, but I was considerably more delighted

to discover a fellow excitable on the other side of the screen. So this has been a true delight for me. That's right. We love 311. I'm going to smoke two joints in the afternoon, different band, and put on some 3-11 and fucking vibe it on out throughout the rest of the day. Marty, what's the last song you want to play

for everybody to leave them on a... On a positive tip? A beautiful disaster, if you will. Yeah, on a positive mental attitude. Let me think. That's a great question. Don't get it all mixed up. I'm going to try my best not to get it all mixed up. Let's do the song running off of transit.

All right. Come back next week for a new episode of Vansplain. This is Running. If you liked what you heard today, subscribe for more episodes of Bandsplain, only on Spotify. Our guest today was Marty Sartini Garner. Follow him on Twitter at M-R-R-R-R-T-Y.

Huge, huge thanks to the 311 megafans you heard on this episode. George Clanton, Jackie Wongso, Chad Fiersted, Colin Blanton, Adriana Heldiz, Stephen Hall, and Eric Slee. Click. Bansplain is a Spotify original show. This episode was produced by My Beautiful Disaster, producer Dylan, aka Dylan Tupper Rupert, and edited by Nico Palela, with help from Casey Simonson, Shannon Cornyn and Kari Millen. Executive producers for Bansplaine are Gina Delbeck and me, Yossi Salon. Our gorgeous and catchy theme song was composed and performed by Bethanyiko

Centino and Jennifer Clavin and graciously recorded by Carlos Delagarza in Los Angeles, California. Special thanks to Robert Adler, Leah Edwards, David McDonough, Dana Mears, and Jessica Hopper and my smooth, smooth, smooth, smooth, smooth brain. Come back every Thursday for a new episode of Bandsplain, only on Spotify. No, sorry, there's another 10 minutes that you just have to sit here while I play you other thrill.