Bandsplain - Blink 182 with Josiah Hughes

Episode Date: April 22, 2021

Do waste your time on us, we’re already the voice inside your head with this mega-episode dedicated to Poway, California’s pop-punk pioneers, Blink 182. Our guide is Josiah Hughes, co-host of the prolific podcast Blink 155, which explored every single Blink 182 song in a 2 hour-plus episode. Follow Josiah Hughes, the Blink 182 expert and NOT the Christian TikTok influencer, on Twitter @josiahhughes and check out his podcast Blink 155 on Spotify. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's with this band anyway? I don't get it. Can you please explain? Wait, like, Bandsplaine? Welcome to Bandsplaine. I am your host and the voice inside your head, Yossi Salek. This is a show where experts, heavy air quotes, come on to explain cult bands to me and to you, to us, if you will. Today's episode is about Blink 182.

If you don't know what Blink 1082 sounds like, you are not from Torrance, California. This is what Blink 1A2 sounds like. Our guest today is journalist, podcaster, and Canadian, Josiah Hughes, of the podcast 155, formerly known as Blink 155. Welcome to the show, Josiah. Hey, thanks for having me. I think we need to like first and foremost clear up that you are not the Christian military influencer TikToker, Josiah Hayes. That's really coming up a lot lately.

The Christian TikToker Josiah Hughes is popping. I'm just bummed that I didn't book him to explain Blink 182 because that would have been amazing. Well, you know, actually, my co-host is named Sam Sutherland. And one time I booked a guest that was just a random guy named Sam Sutherland who used to get his mail sometimes. And so I actually tried to book the Christian Ticktoker on Blink 155. And he said he didn't know anything about Blink 102.

So I think there's a generation now who don't, they need bands. InSplain to understand, really. Well, here we are. Here we are to save the day. Josiah, tell me a little bit first about blink 155, now known as 155. Like, let's get your credentials out of the way. Like, why are you even the person that I need to be talking to? And why shouldn't it be Josiah Hughes Christian TikToker?

I mean, I can't really speak to his on-mic skills so much. He might have been great. Who knows? Maybe he would have been better than me, because he's certainly better than me at making quick looped viral videos. So it's possible. My Canadian colleague, Sam Sutherland, we had met maybe twice before in real life. We had worked at the same places. We had probably crossed paths being ced on emails together. And we kind of just always, whenever the few times we did talk, we would always be talking about blink 182. And this was around, you know, the early 2010s when maybe talking

about blink 182 was like for the true heads, sick as hell. But for some people kind of like something to turn their nose up at. So we were kind of the few that loved doing that. And then I went on his YouTube show one time. And we just kind of had fun chatting. And then a week later, he was like, hey, I was thinking of doing a podcast where we talk about every single Blink 192 song, one at a time. But I don't want to just half ask it. I really want to do this. It's going to be like a three-year commitment. So I really want you to think about this before you agree. And I checked recently because we just wrapped up. I looked at it. And I think it was two minutes later that I said, I'm in. Let's do this.

You were like, I checked my calendar. Okay, wide open for the next three years. Let's fucking party. So we did. We talked about a different Blinkled 982 song every week. Sam is a little bit more professional and less insane than me. So he tried to keep it like, well, you know, let's do like a tight 45 about one song. No, but your shows are like two hours. I went to, I went to listen to one of my favorite songs wasting time. And I was like, babe, speaking of wasting time. I do not have two hours to spend with these Canadian motherfuckers to hear this show. Our second last episode was about the song just about done. And people had always joked that our show was four hours long. So I think we successfully did four hours on a dumb Blink 182 joke song. So we didn't just kind of like talk about Blink 182. Like we talked about Blink 182. Like we went into the depth and it was difficult mentally. But it was so fun. And I don't know. They were just like powerful conversations to talk about. this divisive band with unexpected people. And I think through the journey, the big lesson was just like, what does it mean for things to be cool or not? And does it even matter? And I think that's really

where Blink 12 sit at the center of that conversation for me. Totally. What a great, it seems like you've done podcasts before. Great way to, a little cliffhanger for us to get started. To get us started, why don't you give us the like biographical overview of like, who is Blink 12, who was Blinkwintery 2, who is Blinkwagon now? When and where do they form the whole nine yards? They formed in Polway, California in 1992. They started off as Mark Hoppus, Tom DeLong, and Scott Rayner, three friends that knew each other.

Mark had already graduated high school, I'm pretty sure. Scott hadn't graduated yet when they were already on their first tour. He, I think, dropped out of high school to tour with them. So they formed in the suburbs of Southern California. And they were just kind of like a skate punk band. But even already back then, like I've seen Mark Hoppish share photos of him as a teenager pre-Blink. And he was like a huge fan of The Cure. And he had like huge like goth hair and stuff.

So he brought that influence to it. And like on their first demo they covered Dinosaur Jr. And No Effects and Screeching Weasel, I think. So kind of like even from the very beginning they were clearly pointing towards something more than just kind of punk. But with Scott Rainer, they sort of blew up as a skate punk band. and they released Buddha was their first demo that was later released as an album, and then they did Chesh Ratch. And then they signed to a major label for Dude Ranch,

which was kind of like the first time that people thought they sold out. And they're one of those baines that's been around for so long that they're constantly being accused of selling out. Many areas of selling out. And so then, I mean, from there on, they had, I think, a string of perfect albums that, like, defined the time that they came out. So there was, Dude Ranch was kind of like a, 90s skate punk classic.

And then after that was Enema of the State, which was really like launching them to superstardom. So between Dude Ranch and Enema of the State, Scott Rayner, I'm not sure exactly what happened, but for whatever reason he had to leave in the middle of a tour, some say that it was because of substance issues. Others say it's because he wanted to finish his schooling. And others even have suggested that it's because he didn't want to be on a major label.

So I don't know. I don't know exactly why he left, but in the middle of a tour he left. And Travis Barker was there, and he was the drummer of the Aquabats, this, like, novelty ska band. The Aquabats. Yeah. Travis Barker was the drummer of the Aquabats. I don't think that people spend enough time with this particular fact. His Aquabats name was Barron von Tito.

Exactly. The Baron von Tito. And for those of you that do not know what the Aquabats sound like, this is a kind of really important context. so let's hear a little clip of the Aquabats. Well, it's important to even just imagine the Travis Barker we know now. I mean, if you don't even outside of just that clip, like the Aquabats are a Mormon ska band. And then they went on to start the TV show Yo Gabba Gabba. I mean, Travis Barker was like almost in an even zanier world than Blink 12, which is kind of hard to believe.

Zanier is really generous. As we're talking about like the intersection of cool and not cool whatever. Like, I just think that's an important distinction to make, especially in this, our year of the Lord Travis Barker dating Courtney Kardashian. You know what I'm saying? Like, this man dressed as a bat. He did. And played in a ska band. And let me just finish the bio because I think it ends with them being in a very confusing place. So they do end him of the state. It's like a huge worldwide enormous hit that completely blows them on it. I think They're opening for like sort of a epitaph, fat records style pop punk band.

And then like, because back then you didn't immediately know that you were so famous. And they kind of finished this tour and then we're like, oh shit, we're like the most enormous band in the world. So then from there they did take off your pants and jacket, which had more enormous hits. And then they kind of got bored of doing the same thing over and over again. So they did their, they say it's an untitled album. Some people say it's self-titled, but the album that just has the ugly, smiley face on the cover. I think it's kind of like a mall punk version of the Nirvana happy face. Oh yeah, totally, like a big hot topic vibes.

Yeah, like they basically did define like what hot topic meant. Like they basically just with every album defined what it meant to be mallpunk. And that's really the intersection of like cool and not cool. They kind of just were kind of always the defining band of mall punk. And kind of that speaks to the central thing. of them being cool or not is that if you went to actual like shows, if you knew like the cool punk people when you're growing up, so much of punk music was about gatekeeping and not like sort of getting rid of posers and not letting people in who aren't, who don't know

the right references in some ways, I think. I think like middle stage punk. I don't think we're talking about like OG like 77. Of course. Yeah. That punk was kind of like a reaction to being other. But yeah, I get what you're saying. Yeah.

The punk that came before Blinquen 82. Yeah, it was like kind of like the, I'm talking like late 90s, early 2000s. Like if you were going to punk shows in your town, there was people there who maybe, you know, it wasn't necessarily for kids from suburbia who had never heard of the right cool things before. There was a little bit of a ego or like a hipness to it, I guess. And so Blinkly 2 is like the ultimate gateway band where it's like you can accidentally learn about all kinds of cool shit if you get into Blinkw 182 or you can just keep laughing at all the poo and peepee that they're talking about. It's like it just opens up a whole world. That's the Simpsons season four of Blinkly 2, the prime era that everyone loves. And then after that they broke up.

Tom DeLon came back. They made an album neighborhoods that everyone hates but then secretly started to love. and then Tom DeLong left again, and then they wanted to keep going. So Matt Skiba, the Alkaline Trio joined. And so there's just been, ever since then there's been an identity crisis that's been going on and on and on. And then kind of the most recent thing that we accidentally got in on the wave of is with the rise of things like emo night or SoundCloud rap and all these things like, Gingbunay2 is all of a sudden the most important influence on all North American pop culture right now it feels like sometimes. Which is really funny because Blink 22 is not emo. Yeah.

Like, not even fourth-way in emo. They're just simply not. They're not. But I think that the ugly Nirvana Smiley Face album was close and it might have been what a group of like kids at the mall they got into emo because they heard that first. They heard Stockholm syndrome first or Asthenia or one of these songs. And so, yeah, it's kind of like for people who just never had been to a show before. and then they got into this world. So it's like simultaneously the coolest and least cool band ever.

That's a pretty rich and detailed overview, which we probably need to get into, in more detail, every single part of it. Yes. Well, I am actually excited to talk to you because, full disclosure, I am from Torrance, California, which is about, I don't know, an hour away from Poway. how do I say this?

My culture is not your costume. Do you know what I'm saying? Like every guy who went to my high school dressed and looked like Mark and Tom and Scott, like we, that was literally like what it was to be a teenager in Southern California, at least like coastal Southern California at that time. And like I used to, Blink 1A2 was the first band I found on my own that. that wasn't active still, that wasn't like a huge grunge band or something,

if that makes sense. Like they were on the radio. Like I found that band. This is kind of, I don't want to say pre-internet because there was like some rudimentary internet at the time, but that's not how I found them. Like, legit, like found them through like passing of tapes and CDs

and like we used to go see them play with like 10 other people. And like that was the vibe, you know? So all that to say, I'm way more familiar with like the, first three to four albums. And then I kind of lost track. So you seem to know a lot more about what happened after that. So I'm actually going to be like half spaining, but half spleen to two, if you will. The spainer has become the spleenie. Normally, like, we would or could start with like a classic hit. But I don't know. I think I kind of want to start with an early song. Like,

I think the way to do it with the Blink 1.82 is like, we're going to chart the history. Yeah, I think that makes the most sense, too. And it's my show, so I'm going to pick. Please. And I want to hear Carousel. I like both versions, but I think for, like, you know, journalism's sake, we should hear the version off Cheshire Cap. Yeah, for sure.

You're listening to a music and talk episode where full songs and talk segments come together in gorgeous harmony, only on Spotify. Guess what? You too can create your own music and talk show for free with Anchor, Spotify's podcasting platform. Get started at anchor.fm slash music and talk. That's anchor.fm slash music and talk. That was Carousel by Blink 182 off of 1995's Cheshire Cat. This is a great time for me to mention that my senior quote in my actual yearbook is a Blink 182 lyric from this. song. Really? It did say school life was a woken dream. So literally come out me, posers.

Are you a real head or are you a real head? Do you know what I'm saying? Well, my yearbook quote was, there are only so many ways I can make love with my hand. Whoa, you are a real head. I don't think, I don't think even in Canada, they probably wouldn't have printed that in the yearbook. But Eminem's is a classic from this era. Oh, so you're lying.

I'm just straight up. You know, you really, I have no backbone as you've learned from working. with me and I was called on what I said and I really fell apart. Well, that is a lyric from one of their most tender and beautiful songs and we have, we'll say it many more times in this podcast, but there are Tom songs and there are Mark songs. Carousel is a Tom song, Eminem's, which is what your fake yearbook quote is from, is a Mark song.

And it's a beautiful love song. And I just, I'm so glad you sideways brought it. up because it was my first song with my first high school boyfriend. And later in life, I came to learn, shout out Patrick Dugan, wherever you are, hope you're well. A letter came to learn that two of my current contemporary best friends also had the exact same first song with their first boyfriend, Jane Halpern and Alice Barlow. If you're listening, this is for us. Okay, this is for us and our first loves. Let's hear Eminems.

That was Eminem's off of Cheshire Cat. And you know what, Josiah? Who is going to be the odd man out? I don't want to be the odd man out. That's true. That's very true. I mean, there's so much to love about Eminems in addition just that it's a delicious snack that it's named after. It's not really a delicious snack.

Like, plain Eminemes are like the lowest of the totem pole of like delicious chocolate snacks. Well, yeah. I mean, in America, there's so many fucked up. up different kinds of I mean I would imagine at this point there's probably an M&M that's like I don't know full of the COVID vaccine or something there's so many weird flavors of candy or like Narcan oh my god but the thing I love about this song is the like sick finger-tapping guitar riff like sure it's a mark song you hear the sweet sensitive side of mark but I think like a lot of teens myself included were hearing the tom and being like damn I need

to go learn this riff in my room Also, I'm going to say it's a Scott song. That fucking drum. True. I love this era. I mean, again, we've talked about why. Like, I was, you know, 13 years old. This is like what every guy I had a crush on looked like.

But I want to, outside of my own fandom, I think it's really interesting what you were saying earlier. Like the Dinosaur Jr. cover. Because this is kind of the perfect storm of what. that year was. You know, like, you grew up in Southern California, on the radio, you heard grunge, right? That's what you heard all the time. But what you listened to with your friends was fat records bands, you know, it was no effects. It was lagwagon. It was milling calling. It was, et cetera, et cetera. You know, the warp tour had just recently started. And so you really can, I think you can hear that. I read an interview with them in like Thrasher or something from 96.

And Tom had said that the first song that he heard something like that made him want to start a band or something along those lines. I'm paraphrasing was an all song. So it's like that you can really hear. Descendants like is so spiritually similar to early Blink 182. Yeah. I think that that's so true. But I also think that the other thing I noticed right now even because I haven't listened to Carousel in a while. I actually haven't listened to Blink 182 since Blink 155 ended because it's been through some true.

Literally PTSD. Exactly. But I didn't really notice before, but especially in the first half of that song, you can really hear like the cure. And one time we watched Blink 1292 covering the cure and they're playing it way too fast. And then I was like, oh my God, all of these songs are just like Robert Smith and the cure riffs sped up. That was Blink 1282 not only covering the cure, but playing it super fast with Robert Smith singing at Wembley Arena in 2004. And you can really hear it like the kind of indie pop element as well. But that's what pop punk is.

Right. It is. But I think it's especially bands like No Effects or whatever, they are trying to like thrash more. Like there's something about Blinkgo or something. It's more emotional in a way. I might I might contradict you on that. Have you heard the song Linolium by No. Yeah.

It's very similar. Linoleum is a beautiful. Do you know what I'm saying? saying like they there was these streaks I do think you know blink 182 was did lean more emotional especially Mark and like you talked about he was like a goth it's funny

I watched another like video interview with them from early on and he gets really into like talking about how like not everybody was like always a punk man like people had like different phases before like maybe you were like a gothic he called it a gothic or you were like you know

a scaw whatever and it reminded me of like how different that time was like you really could only be one thing like I remember like an insult that like people would hurl at other people and like school was like what you're a fucking raver now like it was like if you weren't a like if you weren't being punked and you were like listening to like electronic music like it was like such a slur like it really wasn't like it is now where like time stopped in the year 2000 or whatever as soon as the internet really became like at full saturation, like time stopped and now every generation since then has just recycled every

input from before and they happily take from all of them, right? They're like, I wear my grunge shirt and I listen to, you know, Diplow and it's just like all of it is one thing and no one cares. But back then it was like, you were kind of relegated to your thing. Yeah, that's so true. I'm done with my speech. It's very true. The other thing about this song specifically is that, I mean, it's the same chord progression

in every Blink when I eat two. And that's the biggest criticism of them by people who don't really get it. But you can argue that that makes it similar to... Babe, this isn't radio. Yeah, exactly. Like, what are you looking for here? But you can also argue, like, that's, like, the same as, like, jazz or, like, blues music. Like, it's the same structure all the time that they're playing, you know, I'm getting so pretentious, but they're playing outside the lines with it.

No, but this is one of my least favorite criticisms of music is that it has to be complicated to be good. And I find that this only comes from men. And it comes from men who want to play like math rock. You know, where it's like, cool story, babe. And I'm glad that you invented like a new chord sequence, but it's unlistenable. So thanks for that. I'm happy with these like four or five chords that people mix up in the same progression. They sound good.

And also eventually, like if you look at Tom DeLong's career, he's written the same fucking song so many times that at this point, what he does with. And thank God for that. He'll do little finesses that are so interesting that he wouldn't have. No one could come up with that unless they've dedicated their life to the same thing. And there is a quote from Tom that I was thinking about with this early stuff, especially. He said this in the Ernie Ball documentary about him where he talks about growing up as a punker. And it is pursuit of tone. It is simultaneously the most embarrassing and most interesting thing ever, which is just kind of Tom in a nutshell.

Like everything he says, you could interpret it as cringy or genius. And that's the beauty of Tom. But he did say that he wanted to make nursery rhymes on steroids, is how he described early blank. And actually, that's, I kind of think, the blink framework. And that's why people hate them. But it's also why we can't get any of their songs in our heads because they're so simple. Totally.

And I think that's, like, really apt. I think he's underselling himself a little bit, but that's also the blink when you way, the self-deprecation, which kind of does dovetail into my next point. And this is like, this is, I don't know if this was a regional thing or what was happening around the country at this time. but I know for sure where we were from, they were cool, like, before starting the bands. Like, this wasn't like they were like outsider punks who like weren't accepted. Like they were like skater dudes. And in Southern California in 1995, if you were like a cool skater dude, like you were like a football player basically. You know, like that's how the like societal structuring of the hierarchy of coolness in high schools went at that time.

So, like, I think it is also interesting that they're not, they're writing from a place of, like, general teenage malaise, but not from, like, an othering that was maybe more common to, like, grunge or, like, older punk. Right. Which is probably why it's so lighthearted, you know, in the end. I think that's also why outside of that scene, as they got bigger, more and more people resented them because they're, because, like, eventually the skaters did become the bullies when skateboarding got too popular. They did kind of like the jocks did get into skateboarding. And then people were like, honestly, I think Blikwainty 2 is just too good looking to have ever been, stay in a punk band. They're just like too handsome to stay punk. That's also why they got so big, you know? Like they're not better songwriters than the descendants really, you know?

Or like, you know, and the descendants obviously came way before. So like timing wise. But like penny wise or whatever, you know, like whatever we're going to put up during that time. Like, I mean, Lagwagon made it. really catchy songs. There's other Fat Records bands, but they were also really good looking, really, really, really good looking. And they came out at the perfect time because they came out as like we were talking on the internet was kind of just starting.

And by the time they hit their stride, there was still MTV. MTV could still make you a star, which is not a thing anymore. But they kind of like crested in at the tail end of that. And when you talked earlier about Enema of the state, you know, making them massive stars, it was very largely due to MTV and those music videos that, like, everyone now remember. Exactly. Well, I think even another, there's two major elements that add to that. There's one, once you add Travis Barker, and he's like Tommy Lee. I mean, I love Scott Rayner more personally. I think he's way more kind of shaggy and interesting, a drummer. but Travis Barker is like a superstar. Like you can't, they're unstoppable at this point where it's like three. Should we hear the Aquabats?

Let's do it. No, he is. He's like a virtuoso drummer. He's a virtuoso drummer. I mean, Scott Raynor was like a metal head, you know? Yeah, and he like, Scott Rainer went on to play more recently in a band called The Race that is like a death rock band with a bunch of crust punk guys. Like he kind of stayed true punker.

But the other thing that was huge that helped those music videos is that not only are they good looking, they're hilarious, really. And so they're just kind of the perfect package for MTV era. Yeah, for that era, for sure. Like, I think people were tired of maybe the, like, seriousness and, like, the angst of grunge. And this was the next wave. I do, I do, we're getting a little ahead of ourselves, but since we talked about it, and maybe this can take us into a song, the video that I think maybe was the biggest and made everyone remember. them. Do you think it was the Backstreet Boys parody one? Yeah, I think so. That was definitely the breakthrough. And it's actually my most hated Blink 1182 song. I hate this song so much. And I think

that's why it's possible to have such a cultish obsession with Blink 192. And what people don't realize is that there's unlimited things to argue about with Blink 1182. And there's the album tracks, you know, you can become obsessed with them. But some people must surely love this song. And so this is Blink 182's massive breakthrough hit with a video that was parodying boy bands, All the Small Things. That was all the small things off Blink 122's breakthrough smash hit album, Enema of the State, which you might remember. The cover had a porn star Janine Linda Mulder on it, dressed as a sexy nurse.

And the lads shirtless and boxers in a doctor's office. they really did until the Hot Topic happy face kind of knock it out of the park with yeah absolutely yeah the branding was like incredible I just think that like in general sort of skateboarding and streetwear in that time was so definitive for driving culture and that they were just kind of on the cusp of it I mean I think I picture like hookups t-shirts and stuff too and like that kind of stuff totally well they did that they did that hookup style t-shirt that's the one I have yeah yeah yeah totally Totally.

In the hookups skateboard brand style. Someone told me that their friend was not from Southern California, like, maybe I have no idea, Midwest or something, and was like, oh, she would buy Hurley T-shirts because Blink 182 wore them. And I was like, oh, that's depressing. Again, my culture is not your costume. Even that, though, is an amazing sort of allegory for Blinklyneight-2.

So if you look at early Blinkleday-2, they're wearing shirts of their friends' bands all the time in interviews. Then they start wearing brands that they think are cool. then they get sponsored by the brands. And then by the peak of their career, every single thing they're wearing from their shoes to their shirts is their own, quote, different brands. And it's like this sort of brain synergy thing that is just kind of like,

like they've, they're like, okay, we're going to sell out. Yeah, we're going to fucking sell out. Like head to tough. They're like NASCAR cars with their own brands, basically. In this interview from 1996, which I think they did for victory records, they flat out say that they're down to sell out. And they're not joking. They're like, yeah, we just want, I think it's mostly Tom, which is funny.

Like, he's like, all we care about is being the biggest and best possible band that we can be. And if like that, we just want to be on whatever label will allow us to do that. But we still want creative freedom. But they're like really, they're clearly like setting the stage for the fact that they're for sure going to sign to a major. I don't think along the lines a lot of people do that if you go to a major label, then you're a sellout. or whatever, as long as you stay true to your style of music and you don't get a big head about it and you still try and be in touch with your fans

and just do the same thing that you've always been doing. I think Blink 192 is like perfect representation of kids that were driving in from the suburbs to go to shows. And to me, that's why it feels like they didn't have as much hesitation because they're like, I don't give a shit, I just want to play Tony Hawk in the suburbs or whatever. I'm not like, I'm not trying to be punk. So you think that's that kind of is what helped them get really big

is that they appealed to suburban. Absolutely. But two things I want to say, that Victory Records interview is so sick. And my favorite, they look so cool in it. They have like the shaved head with dyed blonde. And something I always would talk about on Blink 155 is how much I love Sig Mark, which is just Mark who smoked SIGs. He was so cool. Totally blasting SIGs. Exactly. But then the other thing that really speaks to this exact thing, and I do think maybe we should listen to it is on Dude Ranch. I think this is kind of secretly one of the most important Blinkwin. songs. It's called Lemmings, and it's about them kind of admitting that they're just, they're bored of punk rock shows and they're ready to kind of like go to the next thing. And they think, they kind of think that people are just Lemmings following blindly who are unwilling to go to the next step. Also, I have to point out that Dude Ranch is a fantastic album and people sleep on it. Okay, let's hear Lemmings. That was Lemmings off Dude Ranch. I think that is a good illustration of what you're talking about. I don't, I would be remiss if I let us only play that song of Dude Ranch because while it is

content-wise, illustrative of our point, it is not anywhere close to one of the top five best songs on the album. Dude Ranch is honestly, I think, one of the greatest albums of all time. It is, I'd never get tired of it even after all of these years of talking about Black 192 and obsessing over it. If anything, I just still love to listen to it and go that this is so sick. I mean, it just gives and gives. And I think the whole thing is kind of just about being bored in the suburbs and being over it already.

A hundred percent. Dude Ranch, I can say because I, you know, know enough to know things that Dude Ranch is the best Blink Winnie to You album. Tashire Cat might be my favorite, but Do You Ranch is top to bottom the best. Also, I do have a special place in my heart for it because my unrequited school. crush Blake gave me the CD for my birthday. Oh, Blake. He looked exactly like Mark Hoppice.

He did go on to, I believe, marry like a surfing influencer and started a tequila brand. And now he lives in Santa Barbara. So I wish him honestly the best. That's a real Blink 192 life path to take. That's right, babe. I'm telling you, my culture is not your costume. Okay, I think we have to hear, damn it. I don't think we actually have a choice.

Let me just say, I mean, I'm fully with you. I'm on your side that Rainer era is the, I mean, that's all you really need. But having looked at the broader Blink 192 fandom over the years, people who think Dude Ranch is the best album are actually considered pretentious now by Blinkinocity 2 fans. And I love that. I mean, yeah, it makes it. Show me the lie about myself anyway. brow having dedicated my life to blink one 82 i like that feeling that i'm being pretentious uh it makes my blink one 92 and godspeedy black emperor tattoos make sense together on my body i guess to be like that

wow wow wow wow away wow but i will also say that like you know i was shitting on all the small things really i think that song sucks i do think blink one 82 is more of a there's a richness if you listen to the tracks, but I also think Dammit is probably the best American folk song of the last 50 years. It, like, just encapsulates life so perfectly, and it never gets old, and it's, like, so evocative and powerful. And just kind of, it just, it's one of those things that absolutely lives up to the hype, or maybe is not even hyped enough. I wonder, this would be the time for you to disclose if you're on the peril of a big Blink 182. Like, are you part of the Blink 1A2 industrial complex?

Like, did they bankroll your podcast? The thing is when you talk about Blink 182 as much as we do and with such deep obsession, you're bound to say a lot of very mean things. And so in those three-hour episodes, I guess there's no way that they'd be down with the show. So if they're hearing this now, I'm sorry. I have no negative opinions. I'm sorry for the things I've said. I have no negative opinions.

Did you just say I'm sorry for the things that you've said? Yeah, in case they're listening. You know, I don't want them to be hurt. He said, did I say it too Canadianly? I didn't say sorry. I mean, you couldn't have. I'm sorry. I just want to be sorry.

Sorry. Did you know that British and Australian people say blink one, eight, two? Like they... Why did you have to tell me that? Producer Dylan was like, that's ill. Are you all right? Oh, ill, like your stomach's turning. Okay, because that's not.

That's like really, that's horrifying. It's literally horrifying. Well, why don't we hear the country roads take me home of Blink 1-82? Damn it. Okay, that was Dammit off of Dude Ranch. I hear you. I hear you on it being the folk song of our stunted generation, Peter Pan Forever Time. I was listening when I was like kind of studying and listening back to old songs.

I was also thinking of how like these lyrics are so high school. And it made sense for me because I was in high school. So for me like everything like clicks. Like every time they would talk about like hooking up with a girl on the floor, I was like, yes, check. You know, like just like so much stuff where I was like, does this even translate outside of like keg parties? in high school because I don't know that it does. Like, do you mean this song specifically? You tell me about Saskatchewan or whatever.

Whatever was going down in the Saskatchewan. Oh, my God. Well, I think sometimes Blinkgo-N-A-2, they have the issue where they had all this success early on and kind of created a blueprint for perfection, where later on it kind of does sound like they're trying to relive their glory days. Right. I mean, if you go to the Matskeba era, the single. bored to death, which I love, that's kind of them doing an impression of their

enema of the state selves. And the lyrics are kind of just like about being young still and about having Peter Pancerjurym, which is relatable. But sometimes it's the specificity just feels kind of like old people trying to write a teen song. Whereas I think something about damn it is like, it's still, to me a day late, a buck short. That turn of phrase alone just is how I feel every day for everything I do still. 35, you know, it's like, for some of us, we're just always going to feel like fuck ups forever. And so that's why a song like this just like connects so powerfully. Wow, you mean the poetry of them coming up with the phrase, a daily and a dollar short,

which certainly did not predate at all 1997 when this album came out. Yeah. Often accredited to the great poet Mark Hoppus, a daily and a dollar short. That really is. You had never heard that. four-up in Canada. And I'm talking about a Canadian dollar, too, a loony. So that's a loony, not a tunie, which is a Canadian two dollars. Literally, your people, your people are unwell. Unwell. Okay, well, let's continue our Blinquency to journey. So even though like I'd love to

spend the entire episode in the bath of Cheshireokat and Dude Ranch, we do need to move on to Enema of the state. What do you think the main? difference is sonically from Dude Ranch out of the state. Like, if there is one, like, can you hear something that's changed in the band? Because Dude Ranch made them more popular, but they weren't yet like massive stars until after they wrote and put out Edema of the State. Yeah. So we talked about like all the small things, them making fun of boy band culture. I mean, really, damn it, which we just played, did have sort of a classic comedy music video of them doing high drinks in a movie theater.

That became like all the time. I mean, for me it was on much music up in Canada, of course. But that was played all the time. And it was a favorite for people. And so they built off of that and then became, like you said, a music video band, What's My Age Again from NM of the State? It was a huge hit where they run around naked. I mean, that's just so iconic.

And they just became kind of like naked guys. They went from being skater boys to naked guys, I think. To naked men. Skater boys to naked men. It is also kind of interesting that they went from like, I guess this is growing up to like, what's my age again?

Actually, just kidding. I refuse to grow up. Let's hear what's my age again. That was what's my age again from NMA of the state. And even though all the small things video, they seem like they're making fun of boy band culture. One of my favorite ironic things about that

is that the same shoot location in that video was later in a one direction video. So, like, they were making fun of boy bands, and then it became a boy band thing anyways. The circle remains unbroken. Harry Stiles' first band covered Blinkled 92 as well. So, yeah, it's like Blinkin'192 does just kind of, they're a black hole. That sucks up everything around them, and then you can just view it through the lens of being a Blink 192 fan. And it's a curse, really.

But it's also a blessing. You really have talked about this maybe more than anyone in the whole world that's talking about this man. Like, you've thought about it from every angle possible. Like you're ruined. We have to talk about Adam's song Because Adam's song is not a departure Because that's not right But it was definitely a different tone

For Blinkina you two Up until that point I would say I mean they had some sad songs And romantic songs and stuff And like I think we could make the argument That like those themes had kind of existed Like cacophony off of Chesh Airy Cat Is a pretty somber song

Yeah Why don't we hear a clip of cacophony just to illustrate that point? When you talk about tomorrow, I'm not sure about today. It's like early on they had like a modest mouse feel or something. It actually even reminds me of like K records sometimes, the early blank stuff or like it just touches on so many different things. I seriously think this band can be anything for, I'm sorry, I'm losing, I'm turning into Charlie Day from It's Always Sunny again. When it's like reference, it happens. If you don't stop me, it'll happen.

No, but I hear you. I mean, I think the lyrical content, again, is pretty, they were like 17 years old and you can hear that. They're like writing this like emotionally overwrought song, which is basically just some dude being like, oh, I can commit. I don't, she likes me and I don't like her. I feel uncomfortable. And they made that into like a really sad song. But anyways, more tonally, I think that was like a predecessor. and there's probably a couple of other songs we could point to to Adam's song, which does

lyrically deal with serious themes that apply to adults and teenagers. How do I say this? Adam's song is a song about suicide. I'm not, is it teen suicide? It does sound like it's about a younger person. I think so. It is different than the previous ones because the previous ones were like them, just like you said, talking about their teen feelings, even maybe being way too old to still be having

such teen-type feelings. But this one became like, I think there was a little info card before the music video to warn people about statistics to do with suicide. And it became like an issue song that they would do again later on with Stay Together for the kids, which was to raise awareness of the issue of divorce, of course. But yeah, so Adam's song is kind of them for the first time, I guess, in this era of actually people paying attention showing that they can be a little bit more serious. And also just kind of doing an issue song.

But first of all, it is just a Blink 192 song played slower. Like it's exactly the same. It's the same four chords again. And that's the beauty of it. This is Adam's song off Enema of the State. That was Adam's song by Blink 122. I just have to point out this very serious. Never Concord rarely came.

Like they can't help themselves. Like they truly, even in like a serious song where they're writing from the perspective of a suicidal person, they are like, well, I didn't get to not that much. So. Well, I just also like to make it less cummy, although, I mean, talking about Blinkwainty is talking about calm, to be honest. There's so much. It's one and the same.

My friend Clyde pointed out once that he thinks dude ranch is, it means come, like ranch from a dude. Like he kind of, because, you know, and I'm out of the state. Yeah, totally does. And so we've talked about this so much that we've actually. actually had people ask, and I asked Mark about it when he was on our show, and they didn't think of that at the time. But they love it. Even accidentally, they came up with this come wordplay.

It was just even, I mean, this one is blatantly about coming, though. Never Concord rarely came. Like, it's not even like an elegant metaphor. It's literally just to say what it is. Because I always get hung up on the apple juice line, like, just like, whatever you're talking about, even if there was some apple juice that spilled in the hall, don't make that the main part of the song because it distracts? I just can't stop thinking about why was there apple juice in the hall

and why was it spilled? And are you talking about piss secretly? Who left? Who left the apple juice in the hall? Well, yes. So that is, to your point, just a Blanky 22 song slowed down. It is.

But it is really beautiful. And it still emotionally works on me. I'm not going to say it doesn't it. And I think that the influence of that song, particularly keeps coming back in the Matskeba era. There's like a lot of, that guitar lead is basically in every song. That and the, uh, what's my age again? They definitely could not recapture the, the feeling of Cheshire Cat or Dude Ranch later on.

Yeah. Well, that's okay. You know what? Nothing gold can stay. Um, okay. So let's, I think now we're free to move on from Emma of the state. Oh, except. And I, I think, I do think the next.

The next half of this episode is going to be the story, the ballad of Tom. So I think we do have to hear a clip of the song from Enema of the State, a Tom song called Aliens Exists. So let's hear a clip. So that's Aliens Exist, and that's written by Tom DeLong in the late 90s for Enema of the State. It's an album called Anima of the State. I mean, it's a play on the movie Enemy of the State that I think is that a Gene Hackman and Will Smith. joint. You know, it's like just, it's everything about this is a joke. So you hear this song, Aliens exist. You think this is some take me to your dealer type shit. This is just like the

alien emoji drawing. It's, uh, you know, you think that it's not serious. No, no alien workshop. Alien Workshop, absolutely. It turns out that this is the most sincere and important song that Tom DeLong has ever written. Yeah. This is a glimpse inside of Tom's. It really is. I mean, it's just, it's kind of amazing how how important. this song is so it's kind of, you know, it's about being a skeptic, but what's going on with the CIA, paranoia, where's my mother? Hey, Mom, there's something in the back room. There's all these things he's just talking about aliens. Actually, to tip his hat truly at the end of the song, to really show that it's not just like, you know, take me to your leader thing. It ends with 12 majestic lies.

MJ12, the majestic 12. It's something from UFO conspiracy theories that really actually, like, That's him tipping his had to be like, yo, Google jet fuel steel beam. Like, it's that kind of shit. It's like him being like, I know my shit. Like him saying that is kind of a code to Google 12 majestic lies. And then you end up in this whole world of esoteric conspiracy theories about aliens and stuff. So Tom DeLong would then like secretly when he was on hiatus from Blink 192 go on coast to coast a.m. He would talk about like 9-11 conspiracy theories.

He would talk about alien stuff and the pyramids and like reptilians. He's like a true, true conspiracy head. And you know what? You're saying it with a laugh. But I'm just here. If you're listening, Tom, I don't think it's funny. I think you're right. I don't know about all your specific conspiracies, but I'm right here with you.

And I think there are aliens. I actually think that they're other dimensional beings. I think we're all one thing and all the expressions of the one go off into different dimensions and aliens that come to visit us are actually just further expressions of the one in other dimensions.

So all I'm saying is Tom, don't let these people get you down. Talk about what he's doing now, though. So we can talk about how this makes sense. It starts off with him in the context of this album, this appears and it's between literally songs where he's talking about fucking dogs and stuff. Like it's literally, you're like, this man is just goofing around, right?

There's a long journey in between that I'm sure we'll talk about a little bit. But he left the band and he came back and they did this and that and they had kind of, they went into their dark era that a lot of people didn't like. And then it came time to like, finally they're going to get back in the studio, the original trio. They're going to make a sick new album back to basics and everything. And then he just like kind of bailed on Mark and Travis because he started a, aerospace exploration company that will be studying esoteric like UFO materials that they've discovered in the desert and he's working with the CIA who he's they've apparently given him all

of this clearance that no one's ever gotten before and he's you can buy stock in his company where you'll be disclosed special information and then there's also like a whole wing that makes movies about aliens like he's making movies and he wrote like he co-wrote like 20 novels in a year or something like it sounded like he had lost his fucking mind no he's a genius but then he like he literally is a genius he everyone made fun of him so much and then he like one UFO researcher of the year and they leaked something that the navy confirmed was real UFO footage and like everyone was like oh shit like Tom actually was right all along and not only is he the sickest pop punk frontman ever and an amazing guitarist and a cool guy but he also was like hella right about all the

alien stuff. So this song that he wrote that seemed like a joke sandwich between dog fucking songs was really the blueprint for the future of society as a whole. Do you hear that kids? Don't ever give up on your dreams. Okay. And I'm again, I have to make it clear. I'm being so sincere. I think it's so cool. But here's the thing about so you were talking about a little bit how there's Tom songs and there's Mark songs. I think for me, what really made Blink 12, Blink 12 was that tension. Even before the alien stuff, Tom was clearly, like, insane. And that's why his songs are, like, usually about the most ridiculous things, or they have

the craziest riffs. And Mark is kind of, like, more rooted in reality. And they're kind of a perfect yin and yang of these two ideas. And the balance was thrown off when Tom left to hunt aliens, even though I respect, I know he needed to do it, but they need each other. No, I a thousand percent agree. I will counterpoint you that I think Tom is not so easily put into a box. And he also wrote some of the best, he actually wrote some of the best love songs of that.

Absolutely. I don't think he can be put in a box. I think what it is is that Mark, no matter what, has the self-awareness that he is always doing some form of, like, performing who he thinks Mark Hopas should be. So he'll write a song that sounds like a Mark Hoppa song, whereas Tom is just like 100% being himself at all times and has no filter. So if he's feeling very conspiratorial that day, he's going to write aliens exist. If he's feeling like he loves his partner, he's going to write a perfect love song. And if he's feeling like it would be funny if he fucked a dog, he's going to write a song or two about that too. The things that they're good at are also splitting at this point.

So you get to take off your pants and jacket, another amazing pun title, that I feel like people at different points in their life, it just dawns on them. You just wake up one day and you're like, I finally get the joke. Take off your pants and jacket. But some people... Do you feel like it takes that long? I've met lots of people who like didn't realize what it was until like I told them. And they're like adults.

Like yeah, that one's so subtle. It's kind of genius, actually. It's like how that David Wayne movie is called They Came Together. It's like so genius and subtle. It's beautiful. Respect. Beautiful. Poetry, really.

But at this point, they're like, they're getting really bored of writing these kind of songs that are just kind of like all the small things or what's making their record label money. So they're writing like super complicated, super interesting pop punk songs that are still kind of like radio ready, but go off in all directions and have super complicated guitar parts. And then their record label heard the album they were working on and we're like, oh, well, there's no hit, though. we don't have a hit and so tom and mark both were like you want a fucking hit here's a fucking hit and they went back to their house and i think they each spent an hour writing the rock

show and first date and they're two of the band's biggest hits ever just kind of tossed off out of spite really um and so first date is an example of tom belong just kind of in uh autopilot writing another massive enormous radio hit so why don't you listen to first date that was first date off of take off your pants and jacket um tom delange is a sagittarius it just feels important to mention that right now because he really does march to the beat of his own drum it's true it's true that was something we used to always do on the pod was something i would always ask everyone was well two things are you more of a mark or a top Tom because I think people usually identify more with one.

I feel like you and I are both Tom's, probably. A hundred thousand percent. And then the other thing I used to always love asking people was like, was there a time that you felt like you were too cool for Blink 1182? And then when did you come back around again? Because I feel like that's the thing is like you're not cool and then you hear Blink 12. Maybe it's different for you because you were kind of in the shit all along. But for people outside of Southern California, you don't know anything about music.

Then you discover Blink 122 and then you get into this whole world. And then maybe you start going to shows and think that you only like cool hardcore 7 inches for a while and you're too cool for Blank 1.82. And then you come back around and we're like, wait a minute. The band is sick as fuck. And you come back around. Even though Blink 182 was your gateway to the cool hardcore 7 inches. Yeah. It's kind of the gatekeeper versus gateway kind of thing.

Would you say that Travis Barker is more famous than the other members of the band? I think Travis Barker is more famous than the band. Yeah. People that don't even maybe have any familiarity with Link 1.A2. Exactly. And I feel like even when he joined the band, eventually their stage setup kind of evolved to the point where the drums are very much kind of the main thing. Because it's like two guys playing very simple songs about jacking off and being sad.

And then someone who's like a virtue of so. And like it shouldn't work. And yet somehow it does. It doesn't always work also. There are times I think it does sound like somebody's just like absolutely quite crazy on a drum kit over top of some court. Like there are times when he overshadows it a little bit. Over the top of someone jacking off while trying.

I think Travis is more famous than the band, but then like it or not, kind of the band being a joke has become more famous than Travis and the band put together. This is like becoming some multi-layered 3D chess kind of description of Blank Money 2. But, you know, like if you think of, like Tom DeLong is basically at this point because of how he says, where are you?

Where are you? He's basically just like an animated gift to a whole generation of people. How he says it, you mean beautifully and gorgeously with his, like, lovely angel voice? Like, I will fight anyone who says that he does not have a great voice. Like, what are they talking about? It's true. The other thing that's funny, actually, and you can find, like, insane YouTube compilations of the way that Tom DeLong's voice has evolved over the years.

Like, if you look at Cheshire Cat and Dude Ranchi has, like, a podcast. perfect kind of nasal pop punk voice. And then it kind of gets like, I think people's voices get lower as the age maybe. Yeah. But then like he kind of like seemed to forget how to sing and then somehow he got it back, but then he lost, or he was bored. I don't know. Like there's like Letterman performances where he just seems like he's maybe like in a different

world. Maybe he's communicating with aliens already because he's just like, he's just gone. Without Tom's like, like it would be like having like a really sweet piece of cake. You know what I mean? Like, that song would not be good if it wasn't cut through with that like nasal kind of out of place singing voice. Because it's really, it's a little bit self-serious that song, you know? It's true. I mean, I think it is, I just think you can't like in the vacuum of and now you're in my world talking about blink one eight two for hours at a time.

It becomes normalized. You're like, yes, of course we needed Tom to say spoilers. It wouldn't for the earth to be what it is. Outside of this vacuum, if you're talking to your friends who are music snobs, you're talking to someone who knows about cool punk shit, immediately you start feeling the sense of embarrassment that you love Tom DeLong saying spiders.

And that's kind of the beautiful tension of it. I just want you to picture I miss you with only marketing. It's true. I mean, it's so boring. It's not good. It needs the Genesecois that Tom brings to the tape. with his, you know, his just unique and special and gorgeous and beautiful voice. Yeah, let's listen to it and let's imagine what it would be like with no Tom and how sad we'd feel.

So let's listen to I Miss You, which is off of Untitled. Okay, that was I Miss You off of Untitled, which did come out in 2003. I have a couple of questions, Josiah. Number one, who gave the green light on the, strings. Like, who was, what do you think was Jerry Finn who was like, you know what we need? So the thing about this album is like they did Deuter Ranch and Enum of the State and take off your pants and jacket, which if we again exit our little blink bubble that we're comfortable

in are all the exact same album three times in a row. If you're thinking in terms of like the outside world looking in, it's basically the same thing constantly with minor variations. And it rules. I mean, I love it. I'm not complaining. But for them, they were kind of like. Yeah, I don't see the problem.

Exactly. It's working. With making something perfect multiple times. But they were kind of getting bored and Tom DeLong went off and did boxcar racer, which was with Travis Barker. That was kind of like the start of the tension within the trio because they were all kind of getting bored. And then Tom was just like, I'm just going to make a post punk album or post hardcore album and show that I've heard of Fugazi. So he made like, you know, kind of his Fugazi thing. And Travis joined in.

And then Mark was kind of like, what the fuck? why was an I invited. And so that was kind of the seed of like future issues. Oh my God. Is he saying he misses them? Is that who he's singing about? Is Mark singing like, I miss you to Tom and Travis?

And is Tom singing, I miss you to the aliens? Because if you think about it, he does say, I miss the voice inside my head, which. That is true. That voice of Treason.

The voice of Trees on could be an alien. We don't know. I mean, it's possible. We've tried digging deep. into these lyrics and I can't figure them out. We actually had Phil Elvrum of Mount Erie on this episode. It was one of our most popular episodes because he was completely out of his element trying to parse this song.

I was like, oh, it has acoustic guitars, but, you know, Phil Elvrim will like this. I was thinking this morning actually I was listening to the song a few more times and scrutinizing the lyrics and just trying to make sense of this, this incoherent, like, shit pile. I also really need us to just listen for a second to the teens reacting for the first time to hearing I miss you by Blink 1A2. Have you seen this YouTube video? I assume you have in your extensive research.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You like, you're saying it's what you need. It catch your eye. It catch your attention. Like, you hit something like that. Oh, what is that? Like, what is that? You'd be like, hold on.

What's this called? Uh-huh. I already know. We got you, bro. Hey, yeah, this voice is you big. See, Josiah, this is what I was trying to say earlier. Maybe I didn't do it as eloquently as these teens, but it's like, it catches your ear, catches your attention, you want to keep listening.

Otherwise, you might have fallen out, you know, like, you're hearing some nightmare before Christmas references from a grown man. You're a little bit like, I don't know what I'm hearing here. The video, again, is like, there was, like, some trend of videos like this. I remember around this time? Do you remember this, like, this sort of, like, fake old-time? me black and white where they like changed their hairstyles and wore like little old timey like you know chimney sweep suits like I don't understand where it came from but it was a thing it was a

plague of the time I feel like it came from this video honestly because you know it makes me think of like panic at the disco you think everything because it did everything came from Blink 1182. Everything is Blink 1-2 I'm telling you losing my mind. Blake 182 is a black hole at the center of culture, and it just consumes and spits out everything, and it's all there. But to answer your question about the strings, I think it is interesting to note that because they had done the same thing

three times in a row, they rented out a house and lived there for months together with Jerry Finn and made this album in the house, and they just kind of lost their minds digging deeper and deeper into their sound. And that's why this album is so interesting. It has so many different kind of, kind of sounds. And it is mostly known for Tom DeLong saying, where are you? But there's like so much going on on this album. And it is really like a very progressive and interesting rock album.

Can you point to a song on here that's not, where are you? I miss you. That sort of like backs up the point that you're making here that you think like is really interesting. Because I think you're right. Like I think it was actually like, I think it was reviewed pretty well as well. Like they like kind of did, like, incorporate a lot of other styles and, like, you know, went a little ham, if you will. But what's a song that you feel like is, like, a good representation of, like, oh, they, like, tried hard to do a new kind of sound? I mean, there's so many. It's all over the place.

They grew up loving the cure, and then they actually got Robert Smith from The Cure to sing on all of this, which is another absolutely ridiculous voice to pair with Mark and Tom. Feeling this, the first single from the album is, like, super progressive, but still kind of sounds like a bling. song, but I think like the album track that really solidifies this era is Stockholm Syndrome. And it has like a pre, there's an interlude right before where I believe it's letters that Mark Hopp has his grandpa wrote to his grandma from the war. There's like a dramatic reading with this like interlude. It's very vibe.

But I think we should listen to Stockholm Syndrome to kind of hear the real like intensity of this record. Let's do it. Okay. This is Stockholm Syndrome from Untitled. Wow. that was Stockholm Syndrome off of untitled, not self-titled, Blank 1-A-2. Okay, I'll be honest, I didn't spend a lot of time with this album, and my first reaction is, like, that sounds like 2003. Yeah, it really does.

Right? Yeah. And that's not a negative comment. That's like literally just like, that's really makes sense to me that that's an album that came out in 2003. because like that was, I mean, like 2003, we already had like block party and like bands like that. The direction of music was sort of in this direction. So it totally makes sense to me like that a song like this would be on an album that came out in that year. But again, I really do think, and I don't have the data to back it up,

but I do think that they took a sound like that and then brought it into the mainstream in a way that this does make the MySpace bands become more popular and more kind of. like common names and it does bring that whole community into the spotlight and I do think that that's what was happening basically up until right after this album is that blink one a two was never chasing after trends they were always helping define them culturally it's true because you're right in the sense that like this does kind of predate the like known like iterations of fallout boy my chemical romance panic at the disco which did all clear like sound a lot like this, you know, at their primes, but their primes were later. And I don't even, I don't think they would admit that, that like they were influenced by

this Blink Wen H2 album. I mean, that's the other thing that I think, you know, so much of pop culture and nostalgia and trends being recycled is that they start off as a joke and then we just all admit that we love it. And so basically in the most recent time, it starts off with us saying it's so funny when Tom DeLong says, where are you? And then everyone's like, by the way, I fucking love Blinkwina82 and they're the most influential band in my life.

And then now I think in the last five to ten years, Blink 12 years, Blink 182 has been pretty much the dominant rock band that's influential on all of culture. They're not actually overthinking the songwriting part so they can just be like, I've been listening to a lot of the cure lately and then plug it into the Blink 1182 formula for writing a song. and then it becomes a new thing because the tools that they're using are so simple that it's just kind of a perfect vessel for whatever they're feeling that day. And I think like that's why we were able to do a podcast that touched on so many people

from all different walks of life because it is just kind of like about being creative, just like using what's at your disposal and not overthinking it. And then this is an example of what can snowball out of that. I just want to use this to maybe segue into something that I don't know if you guys talked about on your show. I'm sorry, I didn't listen to all 150,000. There's actually 174 because they kept releasing songs, too. It's a lot. It's probably like six straight days of content

or something. But, you know, Blink 1A2 started in a different time, and like we talked about, they were like the cool, skate, punk, you know, and they used they used some language of teen boys of the era that how do I say we don't say those words anymore. Right. I don't know if they've addressed it at all, but I did, I think, read something that when they perform live that they don't use the same lyrics. I'm not going to like say the words here obviously, but like there's like, you know, a couple of slurs and a couple of like ablest terms that it's just like was probably pretty common back in there.

I know it was because I was around. but obviously is very problematic now. Do you know anything about their stance on that or how they've dealt with it or talked about it? Or how you've talked about it? Yeah. I mean, it's definitely kind of the elephant in the room

with a lot of the older stuff. There's like so many different threads. I think for one thing is if you look at Blinklymouthed two lyrics that they're most offensive, which is usually like things from demos or things that are like not even quite, they didn't quite make it into the mainstream anyways. But if you really dig into the shit, it's like,

these people are fucking idiots. Like, you just look at it and you're like, no matter how this song comes out, I still think that Mark and Tom are the punchline of the joke. Right. Whereas so much other music from the 90s and 2000s, like emo music in particular, is so misogynistic in a way that is more almost subliminal

or like under the surface kind of. Totally. I think that's a really good point that you're making. You don't really get in-cell energy from, Blink 12 songs. You get like goofy dumbass energy. I'm not saying it's okay because obviously like who am I to you know forgive or anything part in anyone but it reminds me more of how we can barely watch comedies in the 90s now without being like yeah you know like but at the time it wasn't like that it was like the thing you're saying about the emo bands and like we I think you talked about this on

your podcast um Jessica hopper's like seminal piece like emo bands or the girls aren't aren't. Like, those lyrics in though, and I don't want to call anyone out, but we all know what we're talking about, they meant it. They were cruel, you know, like, they objectified. Whereas, like, these guys were problematic in how they were talking, but it was like, to them, everything was a joke. Like, everything was a joke. So, like, it probably didn't occur to them. Like, that was teen boys at the time. And I don't, I'm sure they don't stand by it to this day. you know, white, suburban, straight, cis-head, teen boys, to be very specific. That's obviously not all teenagers at the time.

And like any brand, of course they now recognize the various national whatever day. They changed their logo to reflect. They projected they are progressive. And I think that they are like as progressive as any other kind of brand is now. But at the same time, like it's also like it's rare that somebody, especially this kind of tongue-in-cheek and stupid, makes a body of work that is actually worthy of being dissected this much. And so having dissected them so much and seen the ugly, I still think it comes out on top. Okay.

So even living in a house for months on end altogether did not drive Tom out of the band. But there was a huge hiatus, right? They didn't make music for like eight years between the self-title, which I also want to point out really quickly, was critically really well received. Like maybe their most well-received record? Mm-hmm. And like it's kind of actually, you know, I understand it, but I think it's kind of sad that this wasn't their last album

because what a perfect discography it would have been. Okay, well, let's talk quickly about what, like, why did it take eight years between untitled and neighborhoods, which came out in 2011? I don't know the nitty-gritty, and I feel like Tom DeLong being the walking wild card that he is. it's almost impossible to pinpoint a moment. But I do know that it does seem like there was some maybe unspoken resentment about the box car racer

situation where Mark felt like Tom and Travis had teamed up behind his back. And then when they went on hiatus, Mark was like, oh, yeah, well, I'm going to start a band with Travis. So then he started plus 44. And they kind of just passed. Travis is like the child of divorce between Mark and Tom. He's the aquabat of divorce. So then, yeah, there was kind of like some bad blood. I think Tom quit right before a tour or something.

Like he's kind of, this enters the era of Tom like ghosting them at very crucial moments. So they did kind of then eventually, actually what it was was Travis Barker's plane crash where he nearly died. Right, which was 2008 when he was in a plane crash with DJ AM and some other people. And it was really horrifying what happened. Yeah, he talks about it a lot in his book and kind of like he knew all along that he just felt this like premonition that something bad was going to happen. And so now, ever since then, he has not taken a plane once. So when he does tour overseas, he'll take a boat, like, to the UK or whatever to tour.

I know we already talked about, and I just want to make this clarification, we talked about how Travis Barker is more famous than Blink 128, but that actually didn't happen until this era. Yeah. Like, it was kind of after I miss you and untitled. It was during, because this was like peak celeb, like DJ AM was with Nicole Richie. this was like Lindsay Lohan era. This was like Travis Barker and Shannon Mokler era. It was during this time.

Yeah. This like between that album and this album that Travis like kind of eclipsed Blink 1A2 in fame. It was right after this album that Meet the Barkers, I think, came out as well. So yeah, he, and after untitled. And so yeah, then Travis was super famous and then he got into playing crash. And then like him nearly dying kind of Tom and Mark were like, damn, what are we doing? Like we love each other. Let's get the band back together, so to speak.

But then apparently Travis talks about this in his book. I don't know if you've ever seen some kind of monster, the Metallica documentary, which is like the best music film ever made. Babe. Of course. Yeah. Let's have a band go to group therapy and film it is like the most inspired idea in the entire world. So my favorite thing ever is in Travis's book.

He says that Tom DeLong tried to do the same thing for Blink 192, and he tried to get Tony Robbins to be their band thing. therapist. Oh, my God. We've been robbed. We've been robbed of a beautiful piece of art. I'm about to start crying. So apparently, according to Travis, when they were recording neighborhoods,

Tom agreed to come back into the band, but he refused to leave his San Diego studio. So Mark and Travis were in L.A. in a studio. And then Tom was in San Diego. And literally, they would just email files back and forth. And apparently, each member had a manager. and then there was a manager for the whole band. And so it was like an email album of just like sending shit back and forth.

They tried to produce it themselves because Jerry Finn had died. That's funny. And so the big grandiose ideas on untitled or self-titled or whatever you want to call it, those worked and I think it's because they were a cohesive unit working together. And then they tried to keep doing these big ideas

but like via email with no producer. And so everyone kind of hated neighborhoods when it first came out. And it does sound weird. But actually, the untitled one is the first time that they started letting Travis pick their visual art. And I think he is too much of like a tattooer, famous Stars and Traps type bro to really capture like the pop punk energy. So it becomes some sort of new kind of hybrid mall punk famous Stars and Straps energy. Is there a song off neighborhoods that you like that you want to play?

There's quite a few actually. The thing is everyone hated it when it first came out. And then after years, I think it did actually influence another generation of bands. And it did become kind of an interesting look at the band. And also Tom's difficulty to work with, I think also proved interesting musically because his songs are a little bit more complicated and difficult. I think actually the single from Neighborhoods Up All Night is a great example of everything kind of working pretty well. Okay. Let's hear it. Well, that was a song.

There's no denying that. It had all the parts of a song. I think you can kind of hear that like, so like, you know, when Blake 1-182 was a skate punk band, they went on the Poo-P-P-P-P-T tour with MX, and then this is them, they came back with this song, and then they announced the Honda Civic tour.

And so you can hear it. There's like stadium parts in that song, you know? It's like it has like the pop elements, but then there's like parts that are designed for Travis Barker's drums to fly upside down in the stadium, which is what he did back then. Yeah. Which I guess that's some people like that.

This is also the time that Tom was doing angels and airwaves, right? Yeah. So he kind of like there's just, I feel like the side projects really just like made everything so complicated and why they probably could have benefited from Tony Robbins helping them out. So Tom's like doing. We all, couldn't we all though? We all could, really, if you're going to be honest. I think every.

Tony Robbins come on the pod. So, yeah, like there was just so many side projects. Everyone hated this album because it was written via email. And so they were like, okay, we're going to get in the studio. We're going to do an EP together. They did an EP called Dogs Eating Dogs. That's like good, but not really worth, you know, it's an EP. It's between albums.

What a weird choice to make an EP after making like seven full-length albums. It's such an interesting. Yeah. I think the idea was like, oh, we're finally going to record songs in the same room together. So they did this EP that like, again, if you're a psycho like me, you have takes on all of it. You think it's interesting. There's a song with Yellow Wolf rapping on it on the EP. I mean, yeah.

Of course there was because that was the time where you couldn't do an album without Yellow Wolf just appearing out of the ether and wrapping on it. But then they're like, okay, no more. Let's cut the bullshit. We need to go back to basics, make a back to basics, Blink 182 album. We're going to start the new era of the band by performing at Travis Barker's Pop Punk slash Tattoo. festival, which is called Muse Inc, which is a great, I love puns, and that is a pun right there. I guess it is. They're just about to do it.

Meanwhile, Tom's like, all of his plans are coming together to build a secret space, aerospace exploration slash media empire. And he apparently is on such a high level of clearance that he's not allowed to even tell them about it. So they're supposed to be playing this festival and then immediately going into the studio after and then Tom's like, yeah, by the way, I can't like do anything with Blink for the next year or two. Sorry. How do you know this?

Is this like documented and like? Yeah, because this was in the era of like everyone was so mad at each other that they wrote like Nottsap kind of things about it. Oh, sure. Notes App Press releases. We love a note out there. So it's kind of like Tom later on was like, yeah, I just couldn't tell them. I wasn't allowed to tell them like I found aliens or whatever. And they're like, what the fuck Tom?

But he actually got this government clearance. It's true. Like he did get it. Like he is like the guy for this stuff now. So it did. But at the time like 2016, there was no, he supposedly wasn't allowed to say it. And also Tom has been for the last like five to 10 years the kind of guy who's always tweeting like vague posts like something big is about to come. I'm about to drop something big that changes everything.

So everyone's like, come on, Tom. What are you talking about? But it's true. I mean, it's true. He's like, he's an alien guy. And he's kind of as respected as you can be as like a UFO freak. He's the top level of respect. Yeah, he has like a literal contract with the army.

Yeah. So anyways, they were like, what the fuck? You're supposed to play a Muse Inc festival. Why did you go, son, I'd stop? Bro, it's Muse Inc. Okay. Fuck the CIA. We got to play Muse Inc.

Exactly. So then they're like, well, let's. Let's call up our friend Matt Skiba, and I think he was just supposed to be in the band for a bit as a touring member. Matskiba of Alkaline Trio. For people who don't know, Matt Skeba was the front man of a long-running punk band called Alkaline Trio. But they're a punk band, but basically, I never really listen to them too much. But the vibe I've always gotten is that they're kind of gothy leaning. He loves to wear, like, ties and has, like, makeup on.

He's very, like, sort of gothy kind of guy. Yeah, he's a cold cave-esque. Yeah, I think so. But then in this first press photo of Blink 182 with Matt Skiwa, they like put him in a hurly hat and a hurly t-shirt and kind of like just hope that no one would notice. You're in blink now, bitch. You are in blink now, bitch. You show up. You have your government issued hurly kit folded up.

You wear this at every show and you don't give us any fucking sass about it. I'm curious what how like how they landed on Matskeva because like at first to me it felt very much like a. You know that, like, famous story of when Jawbreaker went on that tour where Blake Schwarzenbach, like, started to lose his voice? And they just, like, the Rody will sing now. You know what I mean? Like, and they literally did that. They were like, the Rody will just sing. Yeah.

Like, was this the Rody will just sing type situation? Or was it, like, more thought out? Like, do you know anything about it? I don't really know. I've just kind of obviously pontificated on it for many years, just kind of sitting alone in my apartment, ignoring my family and wife and just thinking about what does it mean that Matskyb is in. in Blinquent A2. I can't believe you're married and I'm single.

Like you've spent 6,000 hours of your life talking into a microphone. And she listens to it. She listens. And I'm single and I'm a fucking prize. Anyways, that's neither here nor there. I think it's because they needed someone who is like, I don't know why. I almost think it's because he had like a little bit of creed. He's like, he has like a little bit of punk cred.

He's probably friends with. Travis already. He probably wasn't doing anything. I mean, also, the survivors of 90s pop punk are just kind of like an amorphous mass now. Like, you look at the Goldfinger lineup any year. There's always like, or the Atari's like just everyone's in every band. One of the problems with the email album, Neighborhoods, is that they didn't have a producer. And the reason is that Jerry Finn died after Untitled.

And he was kind of the architect of like Blinkinay 2 as a huge pop crossover. He did Enema, take off your. pants and untitled. He passed away. They couldn't figure out what to do. So they tried self-producing. And then that was just kind of an email cluster fuck, obviously. And so then for this era of the band, they started working with John Feldman of Goldfinger, who like had kind of made a name for himself since Mabel here in your bedroom of Superman. He kind of made a name for himself as being like, he produced a bunch of metalcore bands that I don't know the names of. And he also produced like five seconds of summer. But he's like now become like the producer for the wave of sort of pop punk

nostalgia revival. I mean, he did the machine gun Kelly album with Travis as well. Which is amazing, by the way, for those you, if you like blink 182, you need to get yourself on over to the machine gun Kelly album. And so maybe actually I'm as I'm talking, maybe I'm realizing this is another way that blink 182 is still carving out a path because Feldman produced California, which is the Blinkled 82 back to basics album with Matt Skiba instead of Tom. And for some people, it really doesn't work a lot of the time. And for other people, it totally does because it's just kind of like they just made a pop punk album. They just were like, let's stop emailing each other complicated like Tom DeLong riffs and let's just make a pop punk album.

And Mark has said that he likes Blinkled 82 better with Tom in it, but Tom's too busy, you know, saving the world from aliens. And so they had to do something. I guess I'm just, like, I'm just surprised that, like, not to harken back to where are you. Where are you? But I'm surprised they didn't choose a voice that was more distinctive to replace Tom because Matt Skiba sounds a lot like Mark Hoppus. Like, singing-wise, like, their singing voices aren't super different, which is fine. Matt Skiba has a lovely voice as well. But I guess I was just sort of surprised that maybe they weren't, maybe they wanted that.

Maybe they wanted a departure from the Tom Air and they weren't trying to mimic it because they could have got like fat mic or someone. You know what I mean? There's plenty of pop punk singers that don't hold a candle to Tom but probably have at least like the same pitch. That's kind of the problem with modern Blake 182. That also is what makes it really fascinating is like they're a band that's trying to make new music while also being celebrated for. for the past more than ever while also not having a member and also like trying to replicate the past but also make something interesting and new. So it's kind of like there's a million problems they're trying to solve at once and it's

almost impossible for them to do it. And sometimes it really does work well and it hits. Sometimes it hits. So there's been two albums with Matt Skeba. And in fact, Matt Skeba has now been in the band. I'm pretty sure for longer than Scott Rainer was in the band, which is pretty weird. Josiah, I want you to choose one song. You only get one.

One Matsuba song that is the best of all Blinkwanaitya songs, and we'll hear it right now. My favorite song of the Matsquiba era is one that no one ever talks about. And I think it's really like people hate it if they've ever lived in New York because it's so embarrassing to hear somebody talk about bodegas and stuff. And that's what it's about is like being in New York. But I think it really shows like the complexity of the production. It shows them trying to reference.

their past while also doing something new and it kind of just demonstrates all the best so I think we should listen to On Some Emo shit from 9. So that was On Some Emo shit from 9 by Blink 22. I think the really notable thing that you can hear in there

and that's on a lot of their new stuff is you can kind of hear the Adam's song riff a little bit in the background and they keep kind of going back to the Adam song riff. Totally. You mentioned that earlier and I'm glad you brought that point home here with this song. How did the fans feel about Tom swapping out for Matskeba or being swapped out or however you want to phrase it? I mean, I think it really speaks to the era that we live in that, sure, there was a whole subset of snobs who were mad about it.

And I was mad about it for a little while, too. I was like, you can't do that. I mean, you need Tom. It's Tom's. Tom is Blink 12. And I do think in terms of them being like an actual perfect rock band that warrants like academic studying as their place in history, I do think you need the balance of Mark and Tom. They balance each other out so perfectly. But life's not like that, you know?

Things do always change and you have to keep going somehow. And so I think ultimately, though, what is what says about our current culture is that most people kind of just got over it and don't care and just kind of enjoy good songs. and tapping their feet. So I think we're living in an era that's like the post-snob era. So most people are kind of like not too mad about it anymore and are just kind of like,

oh, they'll do their thing. I think people got used to it very quickly. But I also think that like we always would fantasize about this. When concerts come back, Blinkly 2 starts playing and they play, I miss you. And then like when it gets up to the Tom DeLong

part of spotlight appears and then he walks out and, you know, like Tom DeLong's return to Blink 12 is going to happen one day. The funding will dry up for his alien research and it's going to be so epic when it happens. I don't know if you do this with your friends or if you're just not a loser like I am, but like I always talk about like who could they reunite for Coachella that anyone would fucking care about anymore in, you know, 2021. Like because they've pretty much done it all, right? Like, and all I have

left on my like bingo card is obviously Oasis, um, the Smiths or now I think we could add Tom DeLong and Blink 1A2. Like that. I might even Trump dismiss at this point for the age of person that goes to Coachella, right? And like, I'm really curious and like we're going to play you in a second. We talk to some fans because obviously, like, I think a huge part about this whole podcast is the cult aspect of fandom around a band. But we didn't talk to any young people that I think their introduction to Blinkwining to might have been through, like, what you're talking about, through triple extenation or through. through young blood or, you know, machine gun Kelly or whatever. Of course, they wouldn't be snobby about it.

What the fuck did they know? They didn't experience the first air. Like, they can listen to it now, but like they don't feel wrong, you know? Yeah. And then once again, here I am, shitting around people. Well, and once again, I'm going to talk about the genius touching of culture of Blink 102 because I think it proves that there's still kind of a gateway band even like after their golden air. Like people maybe discover the new Blink on A-Tube, which is still good enough

for someone to get into the band. And then they discover this old catalog. And then they discover who Dinosaur Jr. is or screeching weasel or, you know. And then you're banging M-X-P-X up and down the fucking streets, as you should be all of you. MXPX is a good fucking band. God bless them. They're really good. Literally, God bless them. They are a Christian band. Okay. We talked to a bunch of hardcore Blinkwine-A2 fans. Let's listen to what they had to say. It's kind of long just like this episode. And every episode of 155, let's fucking go. So I was 10 years old and Enema of Mestate had just come out. At that point, my only real reference for popular music was spice girls and boy bands. And I just thought Blank was so

cool. I was not your typical like suburban normie. I had an edge to me, if you will. But I, remember blink just felt like my version of a boy band and when I think back on the way that I loved blink 182 as a 12 year old girl it was the same way that I saw girls freak out over backstreet boys and in sync I would like draw like best plus mark on my notebooks in school because I genuinely thought like one day I would marry mark hoppus I think blink 22 is the reason why I met my like long-term partner. I'm pretty sure he messaged me. He was a mutual, we had mutual friends,

and I'm pretty sure he DM me like, yo, I heard you really like Blinkwin 82, and I really like Blink 1182 too. And that kind of kicked off our whirlwind romance. Blank to me is like the definitive band of being a young girl who grew up in Southern California in the 90s, early, thousands and you wore studded belts. They were our version of NSYNC and I wouldn't have it any other way. That's something that we can just all kind of agree on is the influence that Blink 1-82 had on us

personally and as a generation. That was just a very special time. It was a special time to be a teenager. I think if I would have never figured out about Blinkin-82, I don't think I ever would have figured out what my sense of humor was, you know. They are so silly and they can go from being like complete idiots and singing the stoop, like the dumbest song ever to singing Adam's song about suicide. And it just works because they're totally earnest. In hindsight, Blink was my segue into punk music because everything I'd heard until that point or even in middle school was so serious and just didn't really appeal to me.

Their lyrics were so silly and self-deprecating in a way I could really relate to. I was so attracted to their sense of humor and their chemistry as friends and as a band. My memory of fandom with Blinkly 2 would be when I was with my friends at Guitar Center and we used to go to Guitar Center all the time. And we would listen to Blinklymouth 82. and various other shit. It's crazy to me when I meet people who are like into punk music or into cool music now and they never had a Blinkin 82 phase.

It's like, what the fuck did you just go straight to, I don't know, outsider punk music? Being a Blink 182 fan dictated who my friends were, who I would end up becoming friends with. I've bonded with strangers. I've made friends over a mutual love for this band. They made me want to be a rock star. They made me just want to have a fun life.

And they inspired me to create music of my own. As an adult, I've been in two Blink 182 cover bands. Blink has always been my number one inspiration creatively. They're just the best. I covered Dood Ranch in its entirety. I think to a lot of people, that just may be my legacy. And the first ever real bass riff I ever learned was the baseline from Carousel. And that took all like a really long time, but it was crazy because now I could still play it.

Thank you, Mark Hoppus. I appreciate you for that. I love you. And I also love you. Tom DeLong for letting me know that aliens exist. Yeah, pretty much. I love them so much that I literally named my dog after them. I just am so grateful to blink because without them, like, I honestly don't think I'd be in L.A.

If I would have never found out about them, I probably would have, like, got into Dave Matthews band and then, you know, the rest is history. And it's bad history. That's the case. Because I hate Dave Matthews band. No offense to those guys. I'm sure they're cool. Okay. Okay, first of all, yes, offense.

We do not slander David Matthews on this fucking show. Shots fired. Damn, it's definitely so cool how many of those fans, like, made music or started to do comedy because of Blink 182. I did nothing impressive myself. Exactly. Yeah, there's something about Blink 1282 that just feels like, they feel like your friend's band, your friend's local band, but they just happen to get, like, fucking enormous and play in arenas. but they still just feel like you're like, oh, that's my friends. I used to skate with them or I used to hang out outside 7-Eleven with them all the time or whatever.

On that note, I think usually I let the guests choose the last song, but you know what, Josie, I'm not going to. I'm going to choose it myself on this episode. In honor of the Blink 182 that are your friends that you can hang out with, the Blink 182 of my youth, I'd like to end this with, wasting time. How do you feel about that? Hell yeah. I love wasting time. The act and the song. In your hierarchy of Blink 12 songs, like, where do you think it falls?

Top quarter? I mean, that's the problem is, I mean, I hate ranking songs because I feel like the thing is, you know, I've been pretty mean to Blink 182 on my podcast before. And I do think, as I said earlier, I'm sorry in my Canadian accent. But the thing is, I think like 75% of Blink 122's 174 songs. feel like my top five. So it's like the average, I'm terrible at math, but like pretty much every Blink 182 song is my favorite song.

Well, it's on. Got it. Okay, so this is one of your 158 favorite Blink Wenate two songs. Okay, well, Josiah, thank you for joining me and Splaining Blink with me and being so sorry all the time. Thank you for wasting your time with us here on Bansplaine. See you again next week. Let's hear Wasting Time by Blink 1282.

If you liked what you heard today, subscribe for more episodes of Fansplaine, only on Spotify. Our Canadian guest today was Josiah Hughes. You can listen to him talk about Blink 128 for a total of 18 days straight on his podcast 155, available here on Spotify. Lots of love to our illustrious cast of Blink 182 mega fans who gave their time and their voices to this episode. Thank you, Nicole Snyder. Colleen Green, Whitmer Thomas, Danielle Grico, Bethany Cocentino, and Antoine. Bansplane is a Spotify original show.

This episode was produced by Producer Dylan, aka Dylan Tupper Rupert, and edited by Michael Hartman, with help from Casey Simonson and Tari Miller. Executive producers for Bansplane are Gina Delvac and me, Yossi Solid. Our criminally catchy theme song was composed and performed by Bethany Cocentino and Jennifer Clavin and graciously recorded by Carlos DeLagart. in Los Angeles, California. Special thanks to Felipe Guillermo, Robert Adler, Leah Edwards, David McDenna, Dana Meyerson, and the framed drawing of Dave Matthews I Got on Deepop, whose spirit continues to guide this entire show.

Come back every Thursday for a new episode of Bansplain, only on Spotify.