Bandsplain - EMO DRAFT with Patrick Flynn and Chris Ryan

Episode Date: February 19, 2026

A Bandsplain Emo Draft recorded live at Something In The Way Festival with Patrick Flynn (Have Heart, Fiddlehead, How Much Art) and The Ringer’s Chris Ryan. In front of a Boston crowd, they draft their picks for emo bands across the decades (yes, the ’90s get two picks), reveal emo origin stories, and get into the eternal question: which bands are actually emo? CREDITS:Host: Yasi Salek @yasisalekGuests: Patrick Flynn @patrickflynnx and Chris Ryan @chrisryan77Producer: Rob SundermannEditor: Adrian BridgesAdditional Production Supervision: Justin SaylesTheme Song: Bethany Cosentino Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's with this band anyway? I don't get it. Can you please explain? Wait, like, Bansplain? What a polite crowd. Hi, guys. I got to say it. I got to say it. Hello and welcome to Bansplain.

Boston, hi guys. It's really cold. It's nice, though. I love it here. This is Yassi's first time of Massachusetts. That's right. Chris and I are really having, I really feel like this should have been filmed for some sort of travel document show.

Yeah. We went to anchovies. You guys been to anchovies? Let's fucking go. That's the best place I've ever been in my life. You were sights. Yeah. Great chicken tenders.

We sit down immediately. They're like, here's a pint glass of dirty martini. The goo-goos is fucking blaring. I was like, okay, I'm never leaving here. I live at anchovies now. forward the mail. Well, you guys, thank you for coming out in the what to you

is probably an okay temperature and what to me feels medically unsafe. I think even the Boston people have been brought to their knees by this. So I really appreciate you guys coming out tonight. We'll try to make it worth your while. This is usually a show where I explain a cult band or an iconic artist.

But today, you guys, we're doing something a little different. Today's episode is an emo draft. Thank you so much to something in the Wayfest for including us in their programming. We wanted to do something that was sort of, you know, inspired by their... spiritually connected to the programming of the festival. Totally has some luminaries of the emo space. And what did you call them some present-day...

Yeah, like they have some present-day emo bands. They have members of bands that are in other bands that we're in bands that we're going to talk about tonight. And as you know, I love sports and I love drafting. So you guys, you know who I am. I'm Yossi Salick, but I'm joined, as you also know, by my colleague from another mother, Christopher Ryan. Give it up for Christopher Ryan. Coming back to his college hometown of Boston with me to do this.

And we will soon be joined by a special guest. But before we do that, we have a little special surprise for you. We have two weekend passes. something in the way of us to give away. And we were thinking about how to do that. And then I was like, let's do trivia. Yeah. And then Chris had like a really easy question.

No, it wasn't that easy. It was actually, you didn't know the answer. I didn't know it. It's true. But I don't know anything. The notes are not in front of me. I don't think my brain is addled by taking in too much information. Should I do mine first?

Yes. Okay. How do we want to do this? Like, how should we... Is this first person that yelled at out? Shout out the answer. And if you're right, we'll give you a passes.

Okay. So the first one is what was, Sunday Day Real Estate had multiple names before they landed on Sunday Day Real Estate. What was one of the names that was also a line from a Kurt Vonnegut book? It was a hard one, I know. But wouldn't it...

Ice five. No. Ten for some graves. No. Breakfast one. Oh, no. Okay, you're right. It was too hard. It was too hard. I'll just tell you guys because it's really good.

Everything was beautiful and nothing hurt. Okay, should we do yours? Sunny Day Real Estate, when they initially got back together after their first two albums, it was big, huge albums, and they took a break. Their third album was called. There you go. Okay.

Winner. There you go. You guys should really listen to the Sunday Day episode of Bandsplay, and there's a lot of really good information in there, such as that. And then the second one is TV-related. Oh, yeah. Okay. This, something in the way band,

garnered maybe like mainstream acclaim or broke out when their song was featured in what football movie? And what song is it? Right, go. That's too easy. Well, not everybody here read Kurt Vonnegut. You know, we were too busy. What was the song?

What was this explosion? Who's it? This is, when your questions are too easy, this is what happens. Fights break out. There's a go riot. Was your hand in mind

not featured in the motion picture soundtrack? No, I know, but like, wasn't it both? Oh. All right, you guys, please help me welcome our special guest, the beating heart of Boston hardcore in 2026,

of the band's have heart, fiddlehead and how much art also known as Mr. Flynn in history class. Patrick Flynn! Y'all's center seat, huh? Yeah, that's right. You have to middle. It's the hot seat. You got the lanyard on and everything. We love this. Oh, yeah. Legit.

Welcome to Bandsplaine. Thanks for having me. Patrick Flynn. I love the pod. I have a shitty commute every day twofold and I get to laugh a lot. And I think I said this to you before, but you talk about music in a way that makes me want to keep doing music.

And whereas most people who talk about music on podcasts are typically like... You mean the men that talk about the vinyl that they're collecting in their basement? And they're like, well, actually, did you know the guitar tone on this one was... And I'm like, I don't know what you're talking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So thanks for having me. What pedals do you think he used? Thanks for having me. I'm going to do my best to talk about emotional music.

So when we asked you to do this specific episode, were you initially like, did you, were you repulsed by the idea? No. No. No, no. I'm, I'm, I like, I like emo. Yeah. But it's still the Scarlet E. I think people still like feel weird about stepping forward and saying so. Yeah, that's right. It's funny how it comes about. I always thought that it was Thrasher magazine that it was trying to, like, humiliate Ian Mackay. But I heard, just like a couple months ago, I didn't know this, but like Brian Baker claims himself to be like coming up with the moniker of emo core as he was like listening to Rights of Spring or something like that. Which I thought was strange because like he also wrote, can I say, which is pretty emotional music. I don't know why he would say that.

So I don't know exactly the genesis of it, but yeah, it seems like it came up as an attempt to try and, like, emasculate, like, hardcore, which is strange. But I like how, I mean, it was kind of like, the thing I love the most is what Ian McKay said is in an embrace video. He's like, as if hardcore wasn't emotional enough. Right. That really spoke to me as a kid, and I think that that's where I was like, yeah, I'm into this. But like in the late 90s and the early 2000s, it wasn't right to spring. It was like the people listening to emo were all like in really good shape. And they had very tight t-shirts.

They had relationships. And that wasn't like the vibe that I read. in the DC scene. Right. So, but, you know, I always appreciated the kind of like, the sense of confidence that it kind of came from in the response to it being called emo core. So, you know, I'm not, I'm not like the bonehead,

hardcore kid who, like, thinks that there should be, like, a strict, like, a part-like divide between the scenes. I think that it's, everyone who's ever talked to, they've always said that the best time in which they've been going to shows is when it's been, like, you know, a very eclectic mix of bands. Yeah, we were just standing that backstage. Yeah. So, yeah, let's go.

Let's start crying. Let's go. I love that. Should I just deliver my, I should deliver my hot take up, Tom. Sure. And I'm sorry, tar and father me in the town square.

I think that emo music can only be made by men. Oh, wow. And I'll tell you, hear me out. I'll tell you why. I think it is a uniquely, depraved and sort of like I'll say it, pathetic, but I love it. Display of emotion in that way.

It's very much like, what a novel idea to have emotion and self-reflection that is truly only like straight cis men can participate in. And that's why I think this is a compliment to women. You're making direct eye contact me while you're saying. She also workshops. this from like leaving LAX to basically over Springfield, Missouri.

I've been on record about this a couple of times and I've received some flack. It's like Rainer Maria with like a word and I'm like, I'm saying Rainer Maria is an excellent band and they're not doing that sort of needy and pathetic music. I'm so sorry. But they would be considered emo. Like there are caveat. They're like there are basically like a bit of minutes. That's just my hot take. Yeah. It's hot take. I think the, uh, I just, I think that as a scholar and a total student of fifth wave emo, which I didn't. Something I learned about yesterday. Which I definitely didn't look up 20 minutes ago while getting Bobatie.

They would probably challenge such a claim. It seems to be very much so rooting against that. It's true. It's true. It's giving boomer when I say that. You're right. While we're going to do a draft. I'll tell you the guys of the categories.

and then Chris will explain the rules of set draft. The categories are 80s, 90s, parentheses, Midwestern, 90s, parentheses, other, 21st century, and things that are spiritually emo. So these can be objects, movies, scenes for movies, TV shows, what have you. Yeah, it can be other bands even. Or anything, like a leaf turning colors. Not to give away my pick.

I know. You're like, what? Just put it out on front straight there. And Chris, how do drafts work? Most people do know how to drafts work. It's like your fake naivete about it is... I know how it works. I just want to make sure that everyone here understand.

So basically, we'll pick an order of which we're going to draft in. We've decided we're going to do artists instead of albums. And we'll just talk about some albums, even though there was some conversation about that. We'll do it in snake order. So we'll pick third. We'll pick first in the second round. And then at the end, we'll judge this. based on your applause.

Okay, and before we get started, I would like to go around in a little circle and talk about your entry point into the world of emo music, your personal history. Okay. Yeah. Should I not look at you?

It's a good. Guess first. Yeah, Patrick Lynn first. My intro to emo, music. I don't think I've ever told this story publicly. It's a good one, folks. It's very emo. I loved middle school, loved history in middle school.

I had this great teacher, Mr. Hall, taught history as if it was like a problem to solve. And then I got to fucking high school and it was just like a lecture. And I fell out of love with learning. And I started getting bad grades. And I was like, I'm stupid. And at the time, I was listening to the Embrace self-titled. And I remember I got like my eighth, like, F in a row in my, it must have been my sophomore year of high school.

And I had my headphones. I think James Whittle, who now lives in Japan, had loaned me his, you know, recorded tape copy of the Embrace self-titled, which I had in my Walkman. And I had my headphones and I went into the bathroom. And I'm pretty sure I just, I was like, I'm dumb. Like, I'm just a dumb person. That's it. And I went to the bathroom, cried my eyes up while listening to building by embrace where the chorus is,

I'm a failure. Failure. I was in the bathroom stall. It's been like, ooh. So that was like, that was when I was like, I think I'm not just a hardcore kid. damn that's so good I don't think I can top that so and that's when I was like I'm embracing that

but again I just remember like the kids in the emo scene like they just were better at talking than me and so like I just was like they had like they were in better shape than me

you know they just had like they wore size small t-shirts and again that's a theme for me right here and it just sort of I just couldn't connect with them. So I just kind of always felt. Would you check the back of their t-shirt to see what size it was before you decided to be friends with them? Didn't have to.

These were small guys. And so like that, that, and I see them, there was like mostly the time in which like, saves a day, get up kids were kind of like really popping off. And there was such like a better like like, like kind of like indie movie aesthetic to all their record covers. And it was just so foreign from like the live pick jump shot of the hardcore scene. And I liked it all because I, you know, but there was just something that wasn't a, I was looking at it from the outside, but knowing that I probably should be on the inside.

I just needed to like lose weight so I could fit into small t-shirts or something. But anyway, that's my, that's like kind of like my origin story of it. In the late 90s, I was watching to pop off. Similar time period, not a dissimilar story. but it was coming into it more through indie rock. So when I was, like, in high school and right out of college, I was mostly listening to pavement and Arches of Lof and stuff like that, which I loved and still love to this day.

But it didn't even, like, even think to myself that I was, like, craving something different. But when I moved here, a guy who I met in a class, this guy, Steve, who's here tonight, I saw him one day wearing a pavement t-shirt. I can't remember the order of this, but one day he was wearing a pavement t-shirt. I was like, that guy looks like I could be my friend. And then another day he was wearing a Texas as the reason t-shirt, I was like, I don't know what that is. And I think in talking to Steve, it wasn't even like he was like,

are you emo? But he was like, there are all these other bands. Like some of them were playing at his house up in Mission Hill. Some of them we could just go see at the rat or at Middle East or whatever. And I just got introduced to all these bands, some of which would probably reject being described as emo, like the Van Pell or karate or whatever. And some, I think, would fully embrace it,

at least fully new, like, braid or get-up kids. And it was like a whole new world. And Jeff's jumped in. I made sure I had small t-shirts and great relationships, you know. You guys are forgetting about the really tight jeans that traumatized all the girlfriends because you'd be like, oh, I'll just wear your pants today. And you're like, well, no, I sure won't. That's not zipping up.

And then you want to kind of want a K-YS, you know. But they accepted my application. And I was jumped in. It took you in. My story is like a little darker. You guys, this is the year 2000. I want you to picture UC Santa Barbara. Young Yossi.

She's wearing her diesel jeans. So thrilled to be living in the dorms. Okay, maybe I wasn't romantically successful in high school. That's okay, babe. They don't know me here. I'm new, okay? I've developed a light eating disorder. I'm a little skinny.

Let's fucking go. We meet a guy in the dorms, Tropagana Gardens. Wish to God I could remember his full name so I could dox him, but unfortunately I don't remember his first name. It was Josh. I think he was from the East Coast, actually. That narrows it down. Yeah, Josh from the East Coast. I'll put my guys to work on it.

We got to find him. He and I had a little flirtation, invites me to his dorm room, turns me on to the get-up kids. Gorgeous, wonderful. Is this like something to write home about? Yeah, because this was the... No, it was 2000, so it was something to write home-back. had come out the year before. And then we hooked up.

And then he was like, don't tell anyone. He's not an emo kid. Yeah. That's not a true emo kid. And I'm fine. An email kid would like tell everyone. Well, that's the thing he wasn't. He was like kind of like a preppy, like popular guy.

So I don't really know how he found it. Like he was like this me like I'm taking this from you because you don't deserve this. But fuck Josh is what I'm saying. It's on site for him. That's all. I love the get-up kids. So I guess I kind of want, I mean, it took years of therapy to undo that. Do you think Josh is big bands playing listener?

Yeah, I hope he fucking cries to it every night. The one that got away. She's mid-range podcaster. He probably is a sports guy and he was like, I love Bill Simmons. And he's like, wait a minute, that girl looks familiar. We didn't do our TLDR about emo. Do we need to do that? Everyone would understand TEO.

You can get a little bit of a TL? Okay. You guys. you know, it's a movement. Started with in Washington, D.C. I thought it was cool because it will, according to Wikipedia, which I don't know if this is right or wrong,

but they sort of credit Amy Pickering with conceptualizing it in general because she was, she worked at Discord and she was kind of like pissed off about the sort of more macho, like exclusionary direction that Hardcore was going in

and was trying to like encourage the band, to like maybe not be so toxic masculinity. But yeah, so the first bands were like beef eater, Rites of Spring, right? Dagnesty embraces, you talked about, gray matter. Should we quote your pal Andy Greenwald? Sure. He said, the origins of the term emo are shrouded in a mystery,

but at first came into common practice in 1985. If minor threat was hardcore, then Rites of Spring, with its altered focus, was emotional hardcore, or emo core. Once again, I love that they were like a little self-reflection. They're like, whole new genre, you guys. It's just so different. Introspection.

And that's it. We just need one name to go to decide which the order is. So why don't you guys just shout out the first name of the three people here that you see? That's why I thought. So Yasi, you can go first. Pack and go second. I'll go third and I'll do the turn. So I'll pick twice.

It's a lot of pressure on you. First is hard. Yeah. And the categories are 80s. 90s, 9. 90s, parentheses Midwest. Midwestern.

90s, parentheses, other. Other. 21st century. 21st century, just broadly. Great. And then, like a sweater. Like something that is spiritually. Yeah.

Purple American apparel. Zip-up sweatshirt. You guys, this is really hard. I'm going to go. go 90s other. And I'm going to go Sunday Day real estate. Let's fucking go. Because you know what we're talking about God?

We're emo and we're talking about God. Wow. Okay. Was I supposed to riff a little more about Sunday Day real estate while I stand up? Did you get into Sunday Day upon diary and upon like 7 being like an MTV thing? Yes. Yes. But I didn't know that that was called.

Do you know what I mean? Like I just knew that this was like it was alternative music. Because I think I remember that as like an All-Nation 120 minutes thing. Sure. And then the pink album, LP2, kind of took on this like mythical status among my cohort, which maybe it didn't even have mythical status at all. We were just a little bit confused. I got a quick question about someday day.

Yeah. We want us to explain something. Just in terms of the genre, like, I perceive them as, like, a 90s-all band. I think we're going to have a lot of this today. So, like, was that label applied, like, after? I think it will. Maybe, because they were, like, a band out of Seattle, right? Did they have, like, any, like, hardcore roots per cent?

No. They got, Nate Mandel was in this, was in Brotherhood. Okay. Great Seattle Straight Edge Band. Oh, yeah. And they had, I think, when I was trying to pull my trivia out, they were in, like, they were all in a bunch of other bands in Seattle. Okay.

Is it not Emo? No, it totally is. You guys, what do you think? It, 100. It is. I was just curious, like, did they, because I, like, the, I, my perception was, like, emo, the term, like, it maybe died in the night. I don't, I don't know, like, in the early 90s, but I just feel like in the late 90s,

it becomes, like, that's a whole scene. And it was just kind of floating here. There was also like a weird moment in that at the end of that sort of burst. I don't know what wave it was. But like get up kids, save the day, all these bands. And then they all almost simultaneously start doing other kinds of music very self-consciously to like kind of separate themselves from it. And so that was what I remember right when I was leaving Boston, that was kind of happening.

And that was like everybody who kind of liked Wilco. And like we're kind of trying to sound like it. And shout out to the Wilco. But it is a good point. It seemed to be like, don't call me emo, man. Yeah. That was the vibe. Well, that's the thing that, so my brother and sister loved really good music.

They were older than me. My brother, you know, saw Nirvana happen and then became an obsessive, compulsive student of everything associated with. Like, he was like, that's cool. Nirvana's cool, but, you know, scratch acid is even cooler. That's like where my brother was. And my sister, like she was introducing me to Ars Lof and Yoletango's Painful Record. And like she went on this trip to France and came back with if you're feeling sinister. So they were like fucking cool.

And like that was the kind of thing about like the emo scene is that like it wasn't indie. And so like in my perception of it, that was one more reason. Because, like, it was, this is the late 90s. And this is before I really kind of really knew that, like, what was happening in the middle of the 80s was emo. But my sense was like, emo is like, well played, not as embarrassing pop punk. Like, saves a day was a very much so, like, that's the emo scene. Right.

See, but I guess, like, it is interesting because, like, the 90s do seem like a bit of a dead, especially the first half of the 90s, like a dead space for like any bands. like were considered or called emo. And then you go to Midwestern emo and you're like, okay, Patient Zero is Victor Villareal, you know, Cap and Jazz. And these bands are not commercial at all. They're not really pop punk.

Nobody really hears them, you know? And that's later, right? That's like late 90s. So it is sort of like going back and labeling. But then to my ear now, like I can't believe I listen to Sunny Day amongst like archers of loaf and pavement. And it was like, yeah, alt rock where it sounds so fucking different. Yeah.

You know, like, it's such a completely left of center, even for indie and like weird pavement shit that like you're like, what is it, what is this music? And by that second record and into his solo record, they become proggy and kind of post, like they're doing like math rock stuff. Jeremy, you know, fucking goat. Yeah. Yeah.

What do you think like Steve Malcolm is thought of the emo scene? He seems like a kind of a snobby I bet $15 that he has no idea. Yeah, I'm going to say once again, Don Draper, I mean, I don't think about you at all. Yeah. I know where that happened. I'm sure he's like randomly played with a couple of those bands,

but I can't imagine that he's like, yeah, get up kids. What about the tall Arches of Loaf guy? What's his name? Eric Bachman. I wonder what he thinks of the emo scene. I bet he digs it. I also bet he hears a lot of Arches of Loaf in there. Yeah, yeah.

There's a lot of that. in there. I hear a lot of Arches of Loaf in modern day hardcore and I'm always saying it. Yeah, for sure. What about, you're up?

You're up. Yeah, so I guess we're going to know. Sunny day. Off, off the table. I'm envisioning that, like, my pick is like, this is my world. Like, this is the only,

like, what I pick is sure. You can come to Pat's World. Yeah. In Pat's World, these are the only five bands. In Pat's World, these are the only emo bands that exist.

I did say to my buddy Darren that if Wright's Spring is off the table, before I can pick it, that I'm leaving immediately. So I'm just going to secure my presence here. I'm going to go with Wright to Spring. It's good. Thank you. Good, solid. Yeah.

And in my world, you can come see Rights of Spring. They play. They're active. Yeah. They're out here. Gee is out here. Yeah. That's a good.

That's a really good pick. What do you like about Rites of Spring? The first song I heard by that was For Want of. And I loved the song Dancing with Myself. Such a fucking God tear bang. But if you listen to Dancing With Myself and then you listen to For Want of, that's the same fucking riff. Just kind of sped up.

Really, go and listen to it. And I loved it. Damn, now Billy Idol going to come back for some. some discord royalties. Yeah, so I just, I love that. It kind of bridged a little gap for me, but there wasn't, like, as I was, like, becoming a student of, like, the 80s,

it just, there wasn't, there, I couldn't find a single other song that had anybody from, like, a hardcore band, you know, just playing a riff like that. And then there's also, like, the, like, drink deep. Like, every fucking one, of their songs. It's all over the place. And it's rough. It's also kind of like scary at times. I remember hearing end on end on end for the first time. And I just thought that this was just like

the most like epic way to end of records since only in dreams by Weezer. I was just like, but like hardcore wise. Yeah. Let's go blue album high. Were you ever, was there ever any internal debate since you embrace was like this formative record for you of being an embrace or a rights of spring fan like was in it either or ever oh i had like a pretty intense argument with patrick kynlin from uh drug church with self-defense family fellow podcaster yeah fellow podcaster um and i wanted to fight him because of what he said to me uh and i'm i'm basically team embrace uh and he was and he said something so offensive, he was like, the person who takes embrace over Wright's Spring is the person who doesn't understand music. And I was like, oh, that's not insulting. You fucking asshole.

And his explanation, it sucked. I didn't find it very convincing. But then you didn't just draft embrace. I know. I'm being a little careful here. Okay. You don't want Patrick to listen to us and think that you chose the wrong thing. No, no, he can go fuck himself. But they're, oh, gee, they're, you know, round zero. You know, so I think that that's a big deal. I mean, you can come see the first Emo in my world. Yeah, I love that.

They're headlining. Okay. Chris Ryan, let's go. Two picks. 90s, Midwestern. Yeah. I'll do Promise Ring. Delaware, are you aware, is this thing on?

I've been wanting to do that. this whole thing. How much promise ring you're going to sing while I write this down? That's really that was kind of my

that was my bit. Do you want to do any other promise ring? Do you want me to sing promise ring? They spoke to me as like very emo

when I had like come across them. I mean the name is a pretty emo band name. I literally kind of was a little confused and thought

they were Christian. Well just because Sunny Day was kind of Christian, you know, like in the later kind of more really Christian. And that would be a great category for a later draft, like bands that are spiritually.

Spiritually Christian. Or whatever that I feel Christian, but are not, you know? Yeah. Damn. What a good. This is a band, I think, trying to remember exactly whether or not

I did hear 30 degrees everywhere first or if I heard nothing feels good first and went back to 30 degrees everywhere. 30 degrees everywhere. I think weirdly I prefer something. Like, I'm in a 30 degrees everywhere era, I suppose. Even though that record is one of the most strangely recorded records that I know, it's just basically snare.

There was an apocryphal probably rumor that the engineer, Brad Wood, had blown his hearing out recording Tortoise and couldn't really tell what was going on. And it was just like, sounds good, guys. And then like, his dad. Yeah. So I don't know if that's true, but I love these guys. And I remember one of the things I liked about them was the lyrics were like relatively opaque. They weren't as direct as I think we probably associate emo lyricism with. It was like a lot of like cut up E.E. Cummings style poetry stuff. And it was really good. David von Bullen. Can I just say I do feel that if you could draft

Davey von Bolland, that would be like the number one draft pick of this entire thing. Who's to say? I'm not drafting him spiritually. But just like, you know, from Cap and Jap, like, he's really, like, been in it. Yeah. He's been about this life. And then for my other pick, I'll do 90s not Midwest, 90s other, and I'll take Jimmy Eat World. Great episode listeners. Yeah.

That was my favorite band's playing that we've done together. Yeah, I'm too. You could say Jimmy Eat, World, World. We're available for the 21st century since their recording career went into the 21st century, obviously. But clarity is my favorite record by them. And that's 99. What is 98? Yeah.

We just did this. And I kind of like static reveals. Their first record, too. So I'll take them in 90s. Also, more David, more David von Boland, CPA featured. He's everywhere, babe. I have a little clarity story to share that I've never told the public before.

We're getting so many confessions. I've been saving them for this. You don't sit the class down and you're like, okay, we're going to get into World War II in just a second. I need to talk to you guys about Jimmy World's Clarity real quick. This song's called Lucky Denver. I'm going to start big. there's this football team called the New England Patriots

Some of you are probably wondering Why the fuck are you talking about them But there's this famous game Played by this new quarterback By the name of Tom Brady It was called the Snow Bowl You ever heard of it? Jesus

Where am I going? I'm going to bring you there So I was at my my girlfriend at the Times house, who is now also my wife and the mother of my children, and it was snowing a lot. And I had just bought Clarity that day before I went to her house. And what's the faintest snow keeps falling song? You know what I'm talking about?

It's on Clarity. Blister? Yeah, blister. Yeah. Gorgeous. That song is so wonderful. But we had, like, instead of watching the Snow Bowl, which was live on TV, we were out in the snow under like a nice, beautiful kind of streetlight, just hanging out in the snow. And, you know, when my mom picked me up the next day, put in clarity on the CD player.

And that song came right on. And it's just been locked into the old dome here for a wonderful life memory. That was a pretty emo. Sorry. I like that. The snow is falling. My now wife with our two beautiful children. So I took that over the Patriots because sports suck and music is way better.

Yeah, I was wondering if maybe you'd gone back and watched the snow bowl. It's a pretty good game. No, no. It was emo time in the snow with my future wife. Does it go back to Pat? It goes back to Pat now. Oh, okay. So next category.

Don't take my choice. Just read my mind and know what it is and don't take it out. I'm just going to take Cabin Jazz. Okay, great. It wasn't that. 90s Midwest. 90s Midwestern. Let's go Kinsella Brothers.

Yeah, big, big fan. I think that... Can you say the entire album name? An alphabetology. Is it for something like that? I can't say it without my thing either. Okay, here it is. Burritos inspiration point, fork balloon sports, cards in the spokes, automatic biographies,

kites, kung fu, food, trophies, banana peat. feels we've flipped on and eggshells we've tippy-toed over that's right that's not it album title i think that little league is the greatest uh emo song ever written i don't think that there's a single better one than that i hope i have this uh playlist that i've told my wife to play if i ever go into like you know i'm like you know a vegetable and just just and the first song on it is little league i want to play it at my fucking funeral uh it is it is it is it It's just like the most perfect song of all time, I think. Can I ask what some of the other coma playlist songs are?

Yeah, I got, um, I got, uh, Street Hassel by Lou Reed. It's a long and during dirge. I usually play it on the jukebox and restaurants that have the digital jukeboxes. Just deflects a little bit. Yeah, I got, I got Born Slippy by Underworld. That's, that's on the, hell yeah. That one's on there. Yeah, that gives you a little taste of, of, of the, of,

It's called the Deathbed playlist. She knows to pull it out, play it from. And your Sandman's not on there, like nothing, nothing like dark, like that's being in black, definitely. That's in there. So Victor Villarreal took classical guitar lessons as a kid. And according to Steve Holmes, who plays in, yeah, he thinks that his guitar teacher should get credit for inventing all of Midwestern emo because.

taught him the open C tuning that was essentially eventually also stolen by American football and kind of created that sound. That was interesting. That's the tuning where you just like, you can just strum it and then everything sounds good. This feels like a cheat code. When he did it, it was E-A-C-G-C-E.

And then Steve added the F on the low E string. I'm literally, it's like I'm reading absolute Russian here. I don't have no idea what the fuck I'm saying. But maybe some of you, guitar center heads will get that. It is true. Like that, you can draw a straight line from that guitar sound through Get Up Kids and stuff like that. Speaking of... Can I go for it?

Time for me to draft. Emo. Are you going to sing Mass Pike for everybody? God, there's... You'll be accepting my apology for taking things too seriously. Sometimes I think I'm child enough. While she's writing... Missing me. I'm missing you.

I'm drafting get-up kids for 90s, Midwestern. I like both four-minute mile, obviously, and something to write home about. But it's just something really fucking special about something to ride home about for me. The album art. Yeah. Is that the one with the running socks or? The album art is the robot. And right now the artist is totally escaping me.

know. Motherfucker. I have a fun story about four-minute mile, actually. Can I just share it real quick? When I was an exchange student in Ireland in the late 90s, we had like a homestay to start the

experience and it was like a village outside of Dublin like, I don't know, 45 minutes. And I, you know, I have my CD booklet and I played four-minute mile for like the teenage girl, I think, who was like the daughter of the family. I don't know how I did this. or if I let it happen, but basically, like, there was, like, an assumption that this was my band,

and I let them kind of go with it for a while. Like, and when I say a while, I mean, now 27 years. So I was just like, yeah, they were like, this is your pond. And I was like, yeah. I mean, it's like the band that I brought with me to America in my CD case, but, like, I didn't say that part. And so there's somewhere out there, there's an Irish girl just like, I know that Lodd than the get-up kids. I thought you were going to say you brought second wave emo to Ireland.

To Ireland. I kind of did, spread it around. My good get-up kid story is, because like this type of emo was not talked about. Like it wasn't like, I'm just like, it wasn't like on MTV.

You know what I mean? Like by that time, it's like either you were like into that or you weren't into that. So it wasn't like, also like, I don't know what the fuck they looked like. You know what I mean? Like you didn't,

there wasn't a lot of media about these bands. Oh, I see what you're not like, right? Like, I mean, I'm sure they were like covered in like a spin here and there, but like I had no idea what they look like. And years later, this is maybe like, this is maybe 10 years ago. I'm at some festival outside of L.A. It's like the black clips were playing something. I'm backstage.

I'm quite drunk. And I'm talking, I'm just like struck up a comment as you do when you're quite drunk, you know, just like some guy in a suit. Or just chit-chatting and smoking or somehow like emo music comes up. And I was like, yeah, but you don't even, you don't even fuck with the get-up kids. Like, I fuck with the get-up kids. He was like, I was in that band.

It was Rob Pope, the bassist of the get-up kids. He was there playing with Spoon. And I was like, what? And he was like, yeah. And then we hugged. He was, like, so excited that, like, that was the thing I pulled out because he got to be like, that's my band. I was in that band.

I was in that band. This is a special moment for me. I don't like the get-up kids. That's okay. I don't dislike them. But they were like... Wow. No, I respect people that like them.

I don't... You guys, things are going a little south here. I was saying it's good. The tension is good. We were all just high-fiving each other for our parents. What if I was like, okay, and now I'm bringing out Matt Pryor? We're a friend of the pod. We like Matt Pryor.

I was pretty intensely straight-ed. and hardcore when I had discovered them. And it was kind of like, you know, it was like you don't hang out with them around 1999, those kids. Yeah. And you don't, and you're going to be picking aside if you like the get-up kids.

And I also thought that they were from Massachusetts. Well, they have a lot of Massachusetts iconography in their songs. Was he in love with somebody from Massachusetts? I think he was. I think he had like a long-distance relationship with somebody in Massachusetts. I'll give him a shot. that I should stare at receivers

to receive her isn't fair. That's fucking, that is that is Shakespeare. I'm gonna give him a shot. I'm not a hater. I'm personally hurt by this. I'm gonna need you to revisit

something to write home about. I will, I will do that. He does have the vocal tonality that I think is really heavily associated. Heavily associated with this genre for better or for worse. I like it,

but I do think it's been overused subsequently. When he was doing it, that was like, you know, that was the phone, some new shit. Super Chunky. I love the fucking super chunk. I can see it. I wonder what Superchunk thought of Get Up Kids. I thought they actually, that should be your podcast. Backstage Pat was pitching us podcast.

Your podcast should just be you bring on 90s, like, sort of like indie rock bands and then ask them, what did you think about the Get Up Kids? Cat power. What did you think of it? It's like subway takes. It's just, it's a five minutes long. You just get this like quick two band reaction and then you're like, all right. I think it'd be a good pod.

I agree. Seeing them in the 90s was the first time that I was like, oh, A, like, it was like one of the first bands that, like, I saw who were all like, they had a uniform. Like, they kind of were, like, dressed like the outsiders. Yeah. And they had, like, stage moves kind of quasi-choreographed, not even in a bad way, but just like they were. They had thought about it. And it was the first time I was like, oh,

I think these guys are like trying to be big. You know what I mean? Yeah. It was like, Get Up Kids? And Brade were the ones where I was like, do you thought Brad was trying to get big? Kind of.

Yeah, because they, like, Brade, like, had moves. Like, Braide was like, I thought. I never saw them.

Yeah. I feel like if they had come out either much earlier or much later, they would have been big. They just hit a dead spot. Get Up Kids? And Brade, maybe. Well,

get up kids are, I mean, I just saw them play, like, They opened for Jawraker and House of Blues and Anaheim. That's big to you? Well, they're still touring. My chemical romance is sold out Dodger Stadium.

I think Matt Pryor would have liked to perhaps hit a different level. You may have a point. You may have a point. Any other bands that I like that you hate, Pat, while we're on the subject. Okay, I'm going to do, I'm going to do 80s goats. We forgot that that was 80s parentheses goats. Yeah. I'm going to do Moss icon.

even though I do I fucking love I forgot how much I love Moss icon until I was like were you visiting for this Can I just say because one of us

was going to say this is a real I'm not like other girls pick for you Yeah well well I mean is it like I won't say

what my other pick was going to be but I don't I think I mean there's like I wasn't going to pick embrace as it's not really

my jam I like embrace but like why not I like them have you heard she's not like other girls no you know

I do like embrace I think they're really good I was just listening today money goes hard still like dance of days it's so good and maybe this is cheating because like i was just thinking wow i'm like i'm gonna say get up kids and then moss icon and you're like those bands have zero percent in common so like is it like are these in the same genre you know i think in the 80s like this i mean you're probably a better musical historian than i was

like moss icon would you consider that emo when you hit me up about that i was they were they're on my radar am i disqualified for choosing no no i think that they're definitely it's a Big Ten. It was maybe it's not necessarily proto-emo, but I don't think it got, I don't think it got the, the targeting of the label, but it's definitely in this melodicism.

I'll tell you the album cover, very emo. Yes. That's sort of ancient, headless, armless sculpture. And these guys are like, it was like end of the 80s and into the 90s for that, right? Yeah. I just feel fucking good. Yeah.

They're kind of heavy, too. Yeah. I think maybe that's what I, it's, totally possible that it was just like a recency bias of having of listening to all this stuff and them being like so happy to have something a little heavier and be like oh fuck with this okay uh dudes from this band i believe wound up being in universal order of armageddon well i really fucked with uh didn't they do a reunion 10 years ago i missed that yeah and uh i think one of the guys in that band is a very successful pastry chef that's a podcast i would listen to is like where are

they now what do you do like david von bole and cpa moss icon Oh, my God. Do you think he makes, like, the drive, like, Jayhu donut place? Like, he makes, like, little pastries that are named after old DC hardcore stuff just for funsies. Pat, it's your turn. All right. I'm going to go with Sam I am. You got to pick a category. Oh, 90s.

Oh, 90s other. It was tough. And I left it here for you. I want you to know that I really wanted to be graceful for you. Because, as you know, we both love this band so much. And the best record, in my opinion, is astray. I think we can all get this. Do you like Sam I Am crowd?

It's not enough claps. That was going to be my third trivia question, was going to be, I guess maybe this crowd would have known. I was going to be like, what Gilman Street band later birthed Sam I Am? It was Isocracy. That was not going to get God. Yeah.

You guys, we're going to have to work on your trivia. I was obviously also a pretty great band. I am obsessed with them. I came into contact with there was this comp that was for $1 at Hot Topic in the late 90s called the New Red Archives Comp, which was the label that put out the first couple of Sanm Records. And I was pretty, it was like, it's like a slew of like, you know, pretty intense, mostly Bay Area bands.

Like there's this one song called Thinking of Suicide by, social unrest. It's like very like pretty awesome like California punk. And then it's just like this three Sam I Am songs that just sound like it's it's late 80s and then they're in the 90s and their song, there's sound totally evolves. But I think that they're a pretty significant band. Um, yeah, because I really do think that like one of the things I love the most, um, about the run-for-cover record from title fight was, I noticed that title fight had kind of shifted their sound a bit, and I remember seeing Ned at a show,

and he was rocking a Sam I-Am long-sleeve. And I was like, oh, awesome. I just fucking totally love Sam I-Am. And then they went on to put out shed, and I remember just thinking, wow, this is right on the nose from me with Sam I-Am. This is just exactly what I want to do. I would love to do a band that's like capturing that Sam I Am sound.

If you listen to this song, Stepson, which is on the clums, I think he's on clumsy, you'll see like especially on records like Shed and a little bit of floral green, you'll see, you can hear that little wham-thing that Tidal Fight like just become total masters of, but I really kind of see it like as like the ingredient for what made Sam Am exactly what they are. And man, oh man, I just love them. I punished Sergei, the guitarist.

He came to a fiddlehead show a couple years ago, and I just, it was about a straight hour and a half of me just asking him random questions about things he didn't even know about, but I needed to get answers on. And I did. Is there like a lot of Sam I.M. lore that you can accrue that you can

ask the guitar player about, or is it? I have to pretty interesting. I mean, just the Gilman Street Roots. Trey Kool played drums with them for a year randomly in like 99. Yeah, because they're all, they're all from that Gilman Street scene. Yeah. And they were like, I was, I was curious about what it was like when they signed to a major and it didn't really go the distance. But they were just talking about like what it means to be like a big band.

And I remember Sergi told me this story that like they were on tour with bad religion and bad religion played to 5,000 people somewhere in New York. And then the next night they played to like 600. and it was just, it was an interesting perspective to see. And he was like, that's like what it is. And because he was, he was trying to say that like, you know, like, Fidelhead is like, you know, is a big thing. And I'm like, oh, are we? And he's like, no, this is a big thing. And I was like, oh, cool, thanks God.

But, yeah, I think that they're, they're just totally great. And so if you come on down to my world, you're going to see Rites of Spring. You're going to see cap and jazz. And you're going to see, you know, proto title fight in the form of Samayam. I think Samayam is like a cripple. fundamentally underrated. Do you, do you, have you listen to them at all? So this happens. I think my old roommate Steve, I believe, had a Sam I am record that would get played sometimes in our apartment, but I was actually more into a band called Napsack that was around at this time.

And that was like, I have no idea of like I'm sure Sam I Am influenced Napsack, but like that was the sort of California pop punk that went into like more complicated song structures band that I was pretty into. They were kind of accepted by the indie world. Yes. I'm hoping that this talk will help us understand that there's something going on between emo and the indie scene there. Yeah.

Like a complicated negotiation about what is and isn't acceptable. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, Napsack was like, oh, you're cool. Like, you can come here, but not, say, am I am, and that's fucked up. I remember going to see Napsack at Middle East upstairs and at the drive and opened. Wow.

And I was like, holy fucking shit. Just like, I had not seen anybody do that. And I think there were like nine people there. But it was not like, because I'm, it was just like a random opening slot. And they just brought the house down. So wow. Yeah. Speaking of what Pat was just talking about.

I'm picked title fight for 21st century. Let's go. Ned. Shout out Ned. Hi, I'm here. I'm a big glitterer girl. Glitterer. I'm a glitterer boy.

Fucking shit rules. I think the song, Hello by Glitterer, is, quite frankly, the best song of the 2020s, and we're only about six years in. So you're just, the next four ears don't matter. Glitter already clenched out. You got to do better than that.

I think it's a perfect song. You listen to it. You just get into a trance, and I just, I'm always pumped when Glitterer has a new record out. I'm in my late 40s, so there will be gaps in my, like, kind of engagement with any given genre of music for a certain amount of time. But as I got back into hardcore more significantly and then into, like, stuff that was floating around hardcore, like, this is one of the bands that I got, we're super into

title fight. And they reminded me a lot of a band that I used to love in the 90s called Garden Variety, and just like this kind of chaotic, noisy, but still really melodic stuff. And I just, I love them. Yeah, and I love glitterer too. Glitterr. What do you think of title fight? I like title fight a lot.

Your voice went really high when you said that. No, I do. To be honest, I only kind of got into them, like, after they didn't really exist that much anymore. So, like, I don't want to, like, claim things, like, because I just, like, all. And we were talking about this backstage. I think we can talk about it more here because I have a feeling once we finish drafting, you guys will be like, uh, hello, what about, like, the wave of emo that made all of the money

that everyone cares about. We're going to be like, we don't know her. But like, I just, like, didn't, I wasn't really checking for new, like, I don't want to give away what I'm going to pick for this thing, but, like, there is a band, obviously, that I know really well in that same time and genre that I just kind of listened to that. And then I didn't, just like, I, you know, you stop, you just kind of stop paying attention for a while.

Sure. I don't know. I'm sorry. A lot of the bands that, like, I mean, you were, I've heard. heard them referred to as hardcore adjacent, as post-hardcore, like, the terms getting thrown around, like, would... I hate the adjacent thing. Yeah.

I think... You live next door. It's... February the Hill's post office box. I am... And it's funny because Bob Shed, we're at an axe-the-grind world, not to bring up a competitor. No, it's an awesome podcast.

I'm not... He once used a term that I thought was, like, perfect for... the sound that because I just think title fight is such an interesting band I saw them when they were like in middle school fifth

or sixth grade or something like that and like I think it really helped that their older brother Alex was in this band called Cold World that was like very much so at the time perceived as like the hardest fucking hardcore band you could have and I remember

Alex started wearing title fight shirts and it was an amazing moment just from watching like these like super hard kids who and most of the time we're you know having you know pancakes made for them by their two parents that were home and did have a lot of money and you can tell there was this like we can like we we don't have to be super hard all the time yeah we can we can cry and we can like melodic things and let's do it and then like who like it was just suddenly like it was okay to like pop punk in emo and Cold World at the same time. And that was very much so through by way of title fight.

And the thing that I've like, they're hard to define, you know, in term terminology. You know, they're emo, but they're also not emo. They're hardcore, but they're also not hardcore. They're indie, but they're not indie. And so the best term I've thought that I've always really liked was non-core. It's this like, there's like, it is, but it isn't. It's sort of not. And I just kind of, I also just in general kind of hate genres.

They create form and kill spirit and stuff like that. But I get the purpose of it. But that always felt like a good term for it. Noncore. We were playing a game, I don't remember who it was with recently, because we were trying to think of like which genres are the ones that people are like, don't call me that. And then which genre?

are like fully like yeah I'm more hip hop you know what I mean like it's like trip hop emo grunge it's like nobody was like I'm that it's so interesting because then there was other genres that like yeah I play jazz right I don't know what

makes the thing a thing Pat you're up again oh yeah so I've picked 80s midwestern 90s 90s so I'm in the 21st century now or things that are spiritual or things that are spiritually evil. Or things that are spiritually human.

Oh yeah, you have a double. It's true. C.R. My bet. You just did one title fight. Thanks, guys. Sorry about that, guys. I got a pick one.

80s, I'm going to do one that I have no way can claim being like, I've always been down. But I love squirrel bait. And so I'm going to pick them even though. And I'm not like other girls? No. I got one guy clapping. If you ever heard squirrel bait, they're incredible. And they basically sound like Paul Westerbergh singing for.

who's gurdue. And they went on to be Gasterdell Soul and slant and a bunch of other bands. And this is kind of on that indie, emo, hardcore axis, very much kind of coming out of SST and Zacheran Trust and like that kind of sound. But this is just like incredible rock music that is emotionally sincere. So I think qualifies and was one of like, you know, 10 dance in the 80s kind of sounded in this in this general sphere. So I'll go scorely for 80s. Well done, Sarah. You do win the I'm not like other girls award for the night, though. Oh, man, so I got to think of something right now.

We can riff for a little bit if you need some time. It's an entire century of work to take from. So, yeah, that's a good metaverse. How old are you? 40. Okay, so you're the youngest out of us. Yeah. I'm 43.

I'm older than that. Okay. All that to say, just some of this stuff just, I just, I just, I just didn't, was not aware that it, until way later, you know. A lot of 21st century stuff, like in the beginning part, I experienced through the, like, lens of being a rock critic. So, right. It was often thought of, like, how is it important to the grand tapestry of monoculture? That didn't work out for rock criticism. And so, yeah, like, I have relationship.

with some of those bands and I don't think Pat's going to pick any of them. I've said it once and I'll say it again. I spent about 10 years listening to only the Smiths and Dipset and I was not aware of what came out during those 10 years and that's right around when those bands are coming out. Welcome to Vance playing. Hello and welcome to bands playing. I'm realizing, you know, I was going to, like, Yafet Koto doesn't really fit that, the emo world, but it's definitely not emo. It's very political, but they're 90s, they're late 90s. I just, I think for my 21st century, I can get some love

of the old run-for-cover world. Tiger's John, I'm going to pick up Tiger's Job. Hey, look at that. Good man. My first time seeing them was perfect. It was that Sound and Fury Festival, I think, 2010. someone took a motorcycle and drove it into the festival, which was like, it wasn't an outside festival.

It was like a, it also wasn't like a, the festival wasn't on like a motorcycle track either. Hell yeah. Dude's rock. Was it like check out by Harley or was it more disruptive than that? It was like, I think it was like, Gold World's about to play. Let's show everyone my motorcycle.

Something like that. Fun fact about, I'm pretty sure I'm maybe even get fact checked on this, but the guy who, I believe, who rode the motorcycle into the fest, was one of the Burger King kids. I don't know if you remember those commercials. He was on a young kid actor.

How would we fact checked this? I think I know the guy. Let's call him. I'm pretty sure that was him. But anyway, festival shut down and we're like, fuck. Tiger's Jaw was supposed to play. And so, like, California being just like the, you know,

one of the best places in the world to play music, just fucking figured it out and said, you know, let's just, let's show us get the, you know, foundation and Tiger's Draw, I think this band called Brace War, we're going to just do a backyard thing. There was like 3,000 people at the fest. And I don't think the young 20-somethings really thought about the fact that, like, you know, you,

tell this to 3,000 people, then... They're just going to go to this person's backyard. 3,000 fucking people are going to show up. And so, they basically did, and there's like one little side streets, I think, near... It was anything like Santa Barbara at the time, or I don't know, I could be wrong.

But there was, like, it looked like a thousand people, literally just on the roof of this poor kids' mom's house. It was Josh. It was Josh's house. All ties together. And I hadn't really dove that deep into

Tiger's Draw at the time, but this is around the time that, like, it was now, there was like a liberating moment where you could like a band, like, foundation and Tigers Draw at the same time. You guys have a lot of rules for themselves, I gotta say. But this is very interesting.

What Pat's talking about happens like over and over again. Like, it doesn't get passed down. It stops. The elders do not teach anything as to get, like, it's hot again. Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, it was cool. It was just like a such an awesome way to see

this band, they were so, like, weird. Like, the delivery of Adam, who would go on to leave, he always reminded me of, what's his face from the modern lovers, Jonathan. Yeah, the Richmond. And it was, like, right off the bat. I was like, this dude's got a weird voice. I love it. And, yeah, so I like the vibe that they bring year after year with their new records.

and I think it's a good thing to have a good model for a 21st century. It's a good model for masculinity. Good role models for masculinity. Yeah. I will do 21st century also, and you guys already fucking know. Torrance, California's finest,

it's Joyce Manor. It's so interesting to hear what gets reactions and what does it, because, you know, we live in a bubble. I know Joyce Manor is popular. Squirrel bait is not in this bubble. but I think you had to know that. Joyce manner.

Now, would you always would you say that they're self-consciously emo? I asked Barry, to be honest, before I came here, not to name drop and brag. But I was like, do you guys consider, like, do you consider yourself what, fourth wave emo? And he was like, ha-ha, yeah.

And then he, actually, I'll read it. He's like, here's how I describe the band. It was actually kind of, it was like basically eight different genres. I personally describe our band as emo-tinged pop punk with indie rock tens and desicies. Like at Thanksgiving, that's how he describes it. When grandma's like, what do you do again, Barry? Like, what's your job? It's kind of non-core, but also adjacent.

Yeah. I mean, I just, I'm like, I want a heart tattoo. Are you fucking kidding me with that song? I can listen that song on Reiki. for like a day like 24 hours like take caffeine pills so I don't have to sleep so I could just keep hearing that song it's crack and new record just came out right and the new record shout out I don't remember the name I'm so sorry but I heard it it's really good I just think they've put out consistently really good music like

I feel like I met them around the time of never hungover again which I was that 2014 does that sound right too guys yeah okay and they were kind of like adjacent to the burger record scene in LA or like that's kind of how I first saw them and just shameful past over here is up in that burger scene and I was like I love this band and then we got talking and they're like we're from Torrens and I was like that's it for it's forever me and you babe I just think they're really good that's great pick they keep advancing so that's it for 21st century are you surprised that is the crowd surprised that my cam didn't get picked or that any of the more notable big 21st century bands are get picked well that's I think what we were kind of alluding to right

It's just like, and I don't think these bands aren't good. I, we did, and I know that everyone, not everyone, but people who are Mike Em fans would like us to redo the Mikem episode, and we are planning on doing that because it's very short. But when I went back to be like, whom's to, like, and like go listen to it, I was like, oh, this is good. Like, I get this. It's like, it's like theater kid punk. Yeah. But, like, goth. Like, it's very good.

it's just like I didn't know about it. Like I remember the ding ding, ding. The Black parade. Yeah. Black parade. Which, fun fact. And I don't know if we, I'm sure I've said on that episode. After we did that episode, oh my God, you guys never become an aging woman.

Just never do it. Like, if you can, I think actually women should be put to pasture at 40. Because what can, what use can we bring to society with these brains that can't remember anything. To be fair, you're trying to think of my chemical romance trivia, so I don't think you should be too hard on yourself. I'm trying to think of the guy who produced that album. I love him.

His name is Rob, but I just can't remember the last name. You guys know? Rob Cavallo. Thank you. Rob Parvilla. It was Rob Parvillo. You guys don't know about his secret about. Rob Quallo, God's your producer.

Love him. Anyways, he somehow caught wind that we had done these band slates. He also did the Jawbreaker record that everyone at first hated, but now loves. Dear you. Yeah. He came up with that piano part, he told me. me. And he was like, yeah, he's kind of, he also discovered Maroon Five. I think he produced Duky too, right? Didn't he? Yes, yeah. He's, he's, he's, I mean, he's incredible.

He's kicked up. But I think, I think my camera's good. I just, it just wasn't, it was just none of my business, you know? Like, dude, I, uh, Pat Flam shoots from the hip, he'll tell us what he really thinks. I didn't really dive in. Yeah. And that's, uh, I just, I heard that, I heard that they had toured with American Nightmare. And I was like, that's cool. Jeff Rickley produced their first album, the first My Cam album. Oh, man. Yeah, from Thursday.

I should have picked Thursday for my 21st. And I'm going to tell them right now. I'm going to text him right now. Name them. You got the motorcycle story. Yeah. That's true. But, uh, man.

Jeff is a pinnacle of divine masculinity and passing down to the elder or to the, Next Generation, I think he would be happy that you chose Tiger's John. So Thursday is another band that we didn't pick, Taking Back Sunday. Taking Back Sunday? I don't know one note of that band's music. I'm so sorry.

I'm not saying it's bad. I just, I've never heard it. Okay. They got tracks. Brand new. We don't talk about them anymore. Not going there, but I've been told. Take it back Sunday.

They got tunes? Okay, I'll listen. I have one wild and precious life, babe. And then it's always like, you need to listen to three port a set albums for two weeks straight. The fact that I even squeeze in as much new music as I do is my miracle. I got to listen to 18 ringer podcast just to continue to be employed there. It's a tough life.

You have the first pick of spiritually emo. I'm going to do something really lame and I'm sorry. I just couldn't think of something clever, clever land. Like you said, like a leaf falling from the ground or an unraveling sweater or whatever. I'm going to say another band. Oh, okay. It's third eye blind I will die on this hill

third eye blind self-titled is an emo album Kevin Catigan shoutout The Goat those guitar lines are very email it's fucking why are you laughing at me

all weekend you guys this man look at me and just laugh with no like no explanation and I'm like I know I know it's I'm funny but that's not why he's laughing I know you're hilarious it's definitely that

It's third eye blind I never would have thought was emo until I met you. And it's interesting that you love third eye blind and need them to also be something else. I don't need them to be anything else. I just think they are. How is it going to be?

That's like a emotional song. And then the Jeff Bot from the ledge, you know? Yeah, jump, no. Jumper? Jumper? Yeah. Motorcycle drive by? The god of wine. God of wine is crouched down.

in my room. You let me down. I said it. Get Stephen the phone here. You should be, you know, singing with them. I do feel like I should have been in a band.

And unfortunately, I'm instead of podcaster. Hey, do you sing the opening song? I'm presuming these days. No, that's Bethany Costantino and Jennifer Clayton. Bethany Cost, Best Coast, Jennifer Clayton of Mika Miko and Bleached. Oh, I didn't know that.

I'm glad I asked publicly. I don't know if you noticed, but I am toned up. But I have heart, and that's what matters. You have a spiritually emo pick. Yeah. I am going to go with a young 15-year-old boy crying in the bathroom stall. Let's get to embrace.

That's very nice. That's me. I think that's pretty spiritually emo. I'm glad that you were able to connect with your feelings. Yeah, publicly. and it's on the internet thousands but I do

I do think yeah it's a loaded I don't know what you're writing but I didn't make it easy for you literally note for note there from what you said

I do I just I really do appreciate the bands that just sort of put it out on the line and the thing I

just I struggled with, which is like, it wasn't the get-up kids, okay? It was the... It felt like it was, though. It was the get-up kids kids. Oh, what do we all with... Oh, you mean the... The bands that came after?

Or they're fans? They're fans. Okay, one of the truest things have ever said, and I'll never stop saying is you can't choose your fans. I love you guys. I got lucky. Although, I will say I was a little PTSD

when you said fun fact. You guys have such PTSD around fun fact, because I'm going to tell you what the most used phrase in my DMs from people I don't know is. Fun fact! I need to inform you about this thing. And then I'm like, is it?

Is it a fun fact? Is it? Okay, sorry, go on. I just like, like, you know, it's funny how it begins. It's like a term to try and like humiliate somebody trying to be open about their, you know, how they're feeling. And it was just kind of rejected.

And then it kind of comes back on. The thing in the late 90s that just kind of bothered me is that like it became like this identity. And I sort of get it as like a means of like kind of like power, disempowerment. We're going to own it. We're going to take it. But then they just like lean into it. And it kind of like made it seem like that. It almost made it seem like this open emotional thing is like is separate.

And like it, it just bothered me. And so when I, I, I, I, with my time and. the music scene that I was running in, I tried to really inject, you know, with the aggression, you know, some real kind of like emotive themes and openness to it. But there was something, it felt like the emo kids of the late 90s were like drawing a line. They were like feeling emotion is only for us, not you. Right. And so like that felt weird. But I feel like that era kind of, you know, calcified and died.

Yeah. And now it's like it's, I think it's, I think it's, on my opinion. it's a pretty nice time for. But I think that was, that was the wave that we're talking about that we don't know that much about. Like, that was that third wave or whatever, where you were like, this is, okay, I'm going to say some really awesome shit. Now you guys, sorry. I feel like the origins of emo was very like the divine masculine, right?

It was like, no, it's not when I was laughing at you. It was just, you guys saw it. I'll say it again, the divine masculine. because it was this aggressive, hardcore music, but then also folding into it some emotional vulnerability, which is that that's what the divine masculine is, right? It's still the most elevated parts of like archetypal masculinity, which is like strength and like protected and like a bit of force,

but with like being able to also be in touch with emotions. And then by the time I got to third wave, it was like a little like, they're like trying to trick you. Like how many women have suffered at the hands of a man in a size 26 jeans with a band, bangs here being like, but I'm emo.

But like, which wave has the most canceled bands? I'm not going to point in from doing bad things with teenage girls. I'm just saying it really fell from fucking grace. Yeah. From what it was meant to be. And then I do feel like it's kind of picked back up

in this like, I mean, they're doing a different, but yeah, we just talked about title fight, Tigers Jod, Joyce Manor, like, these bands kind of do both in like a really cool way. Yeah, and then there's like a whole other like cohort of bands that we haven't even talked about that are like enormously popular that come after like this kind of group, the title fight choice man or tiger's dog. Yeah, I guess so.

Twinkle Daddy's. I just learned about that. Glass Beach. Huh? Glass Beach. Glass Beach. What's that? They're cool.

I just learned about them about an hour ago. I have two kids a full-time job. I like the idea. Sorry, a fifth wave. A new scaster. And you're like,

this just, I'm getting glass beach is being handed to me down. Incoming. I mean, it kind of is, because shout out to producer Rob, my producer of Vanceman

at Rob Sundar me. He's amazing. This was his most favorite assignment to make me this, like, 25-page doc of all these bands. And he was like, I've never loved my work more.

And I was like, amazing. But the bands he put in this, like, fourth and fifth wave, I was like, these are words. But then I, listen to some of them and I was like

okay what was Chris I can't remember the band that was like a full sentence you remember I was saying it backstage the world is the world is a beautiful place I'm no longer free to die so good yeah Chris Teddy recorded the all the first three fiddlehead records

wonderful guy connection and the recent how much art EP so great guy so I'm glad people are but yeah we don't it's just we just we went with what we knew I have one last pick. Is it spiritually emo?

It's spiritually emo. And it is Billy Bob Thornton's half-time speech in the Friday Night Lights movie. Which, whenever I feel dead inside and I'm wondering whether or not, like, I've had all the experiences I can have and this is just like one boat steering out into the ocean, I'll throw that speech on it. I'm like, I still fucking got it.

You know, I can still get the waterworks going. And it's a good example. was like you're watching a football movie you're listening to like aggressive music you're like i'm not supposed to feel this watching a football movie and this guy's just like can you be perfect and you're like holy shit uh that can't be perfect yeah and then that sounds like a sunny day real estate former band name uh we used to be called that's fine is billy bob thornton's half-time speech from friday night lights it's beautiful it's really good the movie not the show and that's why i CR is the world's greatest podcaster are you guys right there just in the

11th hour he pulls some shit out like this. He had a really good one on the plane that was like going to the grocery store alone at night. It's not like a damn die. This is really fucking emo. Especially if you're listening to emo while you're at the grocery store. You should not wear headphones while you shop at the grocery store. Why not?

It's antisocial behavior. But there's nobody there. So that's the whole point. It's just you and commerce. How are you going to have your meat cute? With the other... I'm married. Like, I'm good.

I just want to just listen to title fight. I look at different protein bars, you know? We have like a little bit of time, I think, to do some questions from the audience. We have a microphone right here. Wait, you don't want to say it really quickly, things that we did in draft that would give a quick shout out to? Sure, go ahead. I got to say, I wanted to do it, but didn't fit. Jawbreaker.

Jawbreaker is a great one. I mean, obviously, like, a little bit of debate about what genre that would be. Okay. You guys have any? Dang nasty for me also. That was a tough one for me in 90s ago, so I really like Dagnasty. I think I might like that one last wish record.

Oh yeah, my better of half. One of the best... I don't even know. I love that album. Any things that you didn't get to pick? I want to publicly apologize to Jeff Rickley, who I met for the first time just like five days ago. Thursday's named after a turning point song.

And it's quite frankly one of the best turning point songs ever. If you haven't heard it, give it a listen. It's a good time. I'm sorry. Mr. Rickley. Okay. Nothing for you, Chris. You feel good about all your pensions. No, I mean, Grey Matter from the 80s I was also

a huge fan of. I got a hot take. Let's hear it. The song, Head by Grey Matter is better than end on end by rights of spring. Oh, shit. I had someone tell me that they would punch me in the face for saying. Was it Patrick Kinlen from

from D.C.? But I, you know, I'd say you can go ahead and punch me in the face on that. The head is better, it's a better closer than Nendonet. Two vans from the 90s that I don't know are if they're emo or not, but they would get tagged with it. Sometimes, one was the van Pelt, and the other was Antioch Arrow, who were my favorite gravity band of just dudes falling on the ground. But they sometimes get called emo.

And we all apologize to Yoff at Kota. Before we do questions, why don't we recap our picks really quick? Okay, my picks were 90s other. Sunny Day Real Estate, 90s Midwest, the Get Up Kids. 80s, Goats, Moss Icon, 21st Century, Joyce Manor, and Spiritually Emo, Third Eye Blind, first album, specifically. Kyle, what about you? Mine were, rights of spring for the 80s, cap and jazz for 90s Midwestern. Sam Iam for the 90s, non-Midwestern.

Tiger's Jive for the 21st century and a 15 year old boy crying in the bathroom listening to it breaks specifically the song Building just to be clear

spiritually emo in fact actually participatory in emo right there yeah my I have to promise from first 90s Midwest

Jimmy World for 90s non-Midwest title fight for 21st century squirrel of eight got one clap there he is he's got in

get hard for you. He really, he needs you to know. He's here. And Billy Vaughton's halftime speech during Friday night lights the movie as my spiritually emo thing. Anybody want to ask any questions? Any of the three of us? A little Q&A moment if you guys want to. Should we have people come up to the front, Elizabeth? If you don't mind, I'd hate to make you walk. You have to sing a line from a song.

It could be for me, Pat, yeah, see you about whatever. Come on. Hello. Hi. Quick, two-parter, which panelists love. Yes. Are there any Boston area, maybe mil for this side of the stage, are there any Boston area bands in your experiences

that maybe even still haven't been mentioned and maybe for CR too, do you consider Fergie from the town, Emo? Thank you. I don't, but I do think Gem, I could see Jim if Jen had lived getting into Emo later in life. Fergie, no.

I think Fergie did not have a lot of emo at home. Boston area bands I think piebald just like absolutely fucking best in fact it's pathetic they didn't make my list

I'm so sorry that first record the first EP yesterday I called you oh my God they're just like a perfect band and they were part of that you know

90s explosion in Massachusetts it's super special yeah I think that and they're also they all seem like really nice guys and funny too not super emo funny to be funny another question anybody come on up sorry to make this

so performed a love burger shirt yeah thank you anybody order a love burger well done um not to like andy greenwald like king of sweaters sure had the you know thanks I had a perfect like definition of emo, but to someone like my brother who I said, I'm going to watch them talk about emo bands, and he's like, what the hell's that mean? If you had to go tell someone and like, a brief little thing, what's

emo? How would you do it? I don't know how to do it. You're experts. Do you want my doc? Yeah. You could show it to him. Like what would be the elevator pitch for emo, basically? Perfect, yeah.

Okay. It's like really sincere, melodic, heavy rock, I would say. If I had to tell, like, a coworker, I would just say... Like in the teacher's lounge? Yeah. I'm a teacher. I'm a teacher. The physical ed teacher. I would, uh, I would probably say, I got to go print some papers.

And then leave. I think it's very, it's very hard. That's a really interesting question. The copy machine's broken. Always. You know what? it's very emotionally driven. I can't use the word.

You can't use the word. You can. Emotionally open and vulnerable music and lyrics. I think that that kind of gets that there. Sure. But so, you know, so is other forms of music. So it's hard to like, you know what, music with people wearing size small t-shirts. Yeah, small pants.

You could basically be like, it's like third eye blind, but less popular. All right. I'm just, I can't. Thank you for your question. Thank you. We got one more back there. You don't have to raise your hand. If you want to come, you can just stand behind the other person and then go ahead.

That's true. We can do a lineup. I know that's weird, but. Hey, guys. Hi. Get a kid's t-shirt. Yes, get a kid's T-shirt. I love that then.

I'm not going to lie. I washed it and dried it today specifically for this. To make it smaller. A spy is small. would not fit me, but guys, I loved the Bansplain episode on Jimmy E World. Thank you. I also

have to give a quick shout out. My buddy Tom Buckley worked with you. T-Bucs. Co-worker. You have no idea how happy that just made me. Tom Buckley is a dear friend and shout out Tom Buckley.

I love the Jimmy World episode and I loved that you guys were split and that you are a clarity fan and you are a bleed American. To be clear, we are both fans of both albums. Of course, of course, of course. But we just have a different favorite. But you have a strong favorite and I love that.

I'm wondering if you were to just choose one song from those respective albums, what would it be? Praise chorus already. Don't know anything about it. I always wanted to discredit praise course. Can't that's it. Oh, then it would be me of sweetness. I think the song I listened to the most is Crush.

Crush, okay. Yeah. Yes. Great. Good question, though. Thank you, yeah. Thank you, man. David von Bullitt.

Hey. Howdy. Hey. When I go home to my parents for the holidays and I get a little sick of them, there's a friend that I text. His name is Red Pill Richard because he's not a good person. Okay. But his take after one or two beers is that emo only gets good post 9-11. So it's a specific, it's a strange take.

Did she want to come on Bamblay? It's a strange take, and I've tried to debate him. I'm wondering if you have a specific, a 2000-year record that I could throw in his face to say, listen to this, to deflect that take is incorrect. Is that Bleed American? No, Blue-Americans are won. Well, Clarity is before 9-11.

Bleed American is before 9-11. But he's saying, like, specifically from 2000. Is there a braid record that comes out in 2000? Oh, American football. Isn't self-titled 2000? Was 2000? Was it a dead year? Someone said rising tide the Sunday Day record?

Okay. Okay. You wanted to just like 99 doesn't count. I think it would irritate him more if it's 2000. 2000. Okay. Oh, you know what? My doc is by year. Hold on.

We're going to, do I want to know why he's a name Red Pill Richard or is it not like a fun story? I don't think you need to, you need to really. It's a huge matrix. Damn, kind of a rough year. The anniversary, designing a nervous breakdown, cursive.

Oh, yeah. Domestica comes out there. I'll play Domestica by cursive. And the jazz June, the medicine. Those are the three ones that were indicated in my dog. Well, I would say cursive out of the three. Me too.

Yeah. Thank you. You're welcome. Shout out Red Pill, Richard. Or maybe not shout out Red Pill Richard. I need to know more about him before I co-sign him. Hi.

All right. Guys, thanks for coming Boston, Cambridge. It's our pleasure. Of course. So I appreciate how you shared your forays and introductions into emo, and mine was

like, I love the blue album, and then I got Pinkerton and I never heard anything like it. And I went to New York Comics and I said, I need more music that sounds like this. But it made me think that it's probably, a lot of people don't associate Weiser as an emo band, but that's absolutely an emo album.

And I want to ask you guys, do you think what's a band that's put out like one emo record that's kind of like incongruous with like the rest of their catalog. And I would have like I don't know who else. I don't know.

Would you say Pinkerton is incongruous with Blub album? Because it doesn't, it's not like a huge departure. It's symbiotic, I guess. Yeah. Trying to think of it. I think there was almost helpful that there was like a narrative around Pinkerton

that it was like misunderstood or lost in some way and that was like it washed up. on the shore, you know, a little bit. A bit of South Island. You could put it, sure. Damn, that's a hard question. I can't really think of.

That's a stumper, dude. That's a really good question. Do you feel like the new Fiddlehead EP is a little more emo than the previous stuff? Yeah. No. Yes, no. Okay. The first, Fiddlehead has a new EP coming out later. Sorry. Did Yossi just break that news?

I don't use her that was allowed to be talked about. Oh, we can talk about it. It's good promo. RARC, right? Is that cool? Yeah. It's called Baby I'll Change. One song is, and then it kind of mutates to kind of some archers of loaf stuff.

And then the third song, the song, Baby Al Change, we wrote then and there, and it just did what it did. It was a nice moment. I don't know if it's more emo. I don't know. We don't really, we just go where it goes. Right. I was following.

Dallas. This is a good question, though. Like, who had, like, the emo record that just was different? Does, like, Pearl Jam have anything like that? Like, is vitology their emo? It's not, but, like, it wouldn't, like. Off he goes is a very emotional song. Yeah.

Better man. I kind of want to start singing it. That's their emo record. That was a good question. He's so good, and we can't really stop us. Yeah. How's going, man? Hey, hi.

Long time, no time. Yes. Pat, I saw you open for military gun back in November. Oh, right on. That was, that was sick. Oh, and how much art show? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, cool.

I love military gun on this program. I play drums in a band. We just had her, like, first show, like, a couple weeks ago. Nice. Always looking for, like, advice just for, like, how to stay inspired, like, as you as an artist, but also you two as just creators in general of, like, how do you keep the juices flowing, you know? I can definitely say, listen to bands play. I'm not even just kidding.

One thing I really like about what you guys do is that the way you speak about it is really, you're not like judgmental. Like I shudder to think of myself as like an artist, but like, you know, the way that you talk about it, like just creativity is like super inspiring. And I'm like, I want to keep doing this. It's, it's, I want to be a part of just looking at nothing and putting something into the world. And I like, that's something. So like very specifically, listen to bands. is very inspiring. I think surrounding yourself around people

who are, you know, just who don't, are completely fucking uninterested in, like, getting famous and shit like that and are more interested in like getting together and then just kind of, you know, just creating something. That's been, you know, something for me is a lot of joy to my life and I encourage

everybody to do it. And also to take super amounts of joy playing to fucking zero people. I saw this footage of Fontaine's DC playing to fucking nobody. And it was so, like, there was a song, it was a great song like Lucy Lou. It was just a clip of it. It's like an amazing song.

And they're playing in like an actual, like a shitty pub and no one's paying attention to them. And you can just sort of tell that they don't give a shit. And that has worked out quite well for those Irish boys. And like, but I don't think that that was really the big intention of them. I could be wrong. Like I just think it's just, it's good to just sort of create music. And that, that's it. Yeah.

I love that. You want me to go, sir? What's that? You want me to go? Yeah. I would say my therapist always says, which I really love, is that you always need cycles of input to have cycles of output. So if you're feeling uninspired and you can't do anything, like you need to be nourishing yourself with art and other music and go to the museum, go into nature. Like you've got to get inspiration.

You can't just like keep grinding. And also, the artist's way is amazing if you've never done it. I'll love it. I still be doing those fucking morning pages every morning, bitch. What is that? Is that like journaling? You don't know what the artist's way? Julia Cameron, former wife of Martin Scorsese.

I didn't know about this. You guys. You know about the artist's way? Okay, the artist way is a book, and it's so great. And it, like, I actually did it over COVID. But it's like, it's almost like a guidebook of, like, how if you want to be an artist, it's like a thing that you go through for, like, I don't know how long, like a month or whatever and you do these like certain things but one of the things that

like it's enduring afterwards is like every morning you write three pages freehand just never look at it again off the top there's all these other things in it that you do like artist dates with yourself it's just really cool to remind yourself of like what it means to be an artist and it's okay to call yourself an artist and how that is to be in the world as an artist I really recommend it that's great advice thank you uh I this kind of like wrote, but I do actually really subscribe to the idea of making the thing or trying to make the thing that

you would want to enjoy. So to the extent that you're technically able to do so, like, I can't play drums, so I wouldn't be able to drum like that. But whenever I do something, I try to think about, like, what would I actually want to read or listen to or whatever? Don't let them tell you

the podcast can only be an hour long. You know what I mean? Do your own thing. Next question. Hi. everyone, such a huge fan. I really, in the spirit of your vulnerability and telling your story about being in the bathroom stall, weeping openly,

what is the most emo experience that you have had at a live music event? I know I have definitely wept openly, seeing the cure two years ago. That was just mind-blowing. So bonus points if it's an emo band, but emo experience. That's a really good question

because it's not specifically, like, having your mind blown but having your mind blown in a particularly emo way right i think so like countless ones at like smaller shows like it just goes on and on one time uh like like it was very nice i was just you know regular common human depressed and i remember at the end of the set this kid came up to me and goes i don't know why i did it maybe he just sends that i was bummed out or something like that and he just like you just pat me on the back and he goes then he just says you are loved I was like, oh, that's super nice. And that was like a really small show.

And I tend to like never go to big shows ever. One of my friends, though, he took me to see the skeleton tree documentary by Nick, from the Cave thing. It was like very intense. And then he dragged me to Barclays Center in New York to go see him play. And I was like, I don't want to go to a fucking auditorium. And I went. And I liked Nick Cave.

And I loved the Skeve. tree, it really kind of connected me. But I remember seeing him play Jubilee Street. Yeah. I was like completely fucking blown away and transcended. And like it was actually at that moment, I was like, I really want my old band have heart to play a show again. Oh, that's awesome.

And I was just so moved by how transformative music can be in an exact moment, like, moment. It was, yeah, it was super cathartic. I think that like for me, it's about catharsis. Yeah,

and not so much just like, you know, an emotional outport. It's just like, have you, it's something that has been on your mind that you just sort of kind of

figured out. So those are, those are, that's probably the one that stands out in my mind. It's just watching Jubilee Street. Okay, about for an amazing guest.

I'm proud of myself for asking you. Be on this pod. Chris? I'll go off kind of similar to what story Pat has. Like I saw neutral milk hotel downstairs at the Middle East when they were touring for aeroplane. And they didn't give a fuck. Like they looked like freaks. They were playing saws and they had a trumpet player.

Spiritual emo. But spiritually emo. And also was like one of those like five, ten times in a live show where you're like, I've just completely left my body. and I just, it was just like one of those things where I was like, I'm never going to forget this for the rest of my life in a very specific emotional way. So I guess that's it.

Can I add one more? Yes. Does anyone listen to Mira? Yeah. My wife introduced me to her a long time ago, and we were broken up for a long time. And I went to go see her at the Brighton Music Hall. And I just, I was, I just, it was a very emotional.

time just watching her because like we weren't together we were together in high school and stuff like that that was like a very emo moment but she's not really emo but nonetheless though she played cold cold water and i was like oh my god this is unbelievable yeah that was that one stands out i'm sorry i had to get that no i love that wife guy look but if you haven't heard that song check it out top that yeah i mean i have a good one and you're involved in it it'll be my third one and i will top that but first i cried almost every show i'm not going to lie you guys i'm very moved by music two ones i remember really well pavement first reunion 2010 hey i was there at berkeley no hollywood bowl okay yeah i was at berkeley i with my sister yeah i thought i they were like a band i was obsessed with and thought i was

never going to get to see play again and i just was crying i was just crying i was like summer babe came on and i was like so happy and then another time with Dave Matthew's band I was on a bit of mushrooms and I felt I connected with God. But the last one was in, was it February, Chris of last year? Me and Chris went to see Cameron Winter at the Barnesdale Art Center. I didn't bring my tiny violin with me. You guys, I'm really sorry, but it was like mere weeks after my house turned down. So that was fun. And I was just like, I'd been listening to the album a lot. It was like my emotional support album after the fire. And I was just there with my buddy, like in this beautiful space and this beautiful music. And I was just so happy to be, I'm going to

cry. I'm just so happy to be alive. I was like, I don't care that my house burned down. Like, life is really beautiful. You know, I get to be here and like see this incredible music. And just like, it was really, it was really moving for me. So yeah, I did top that. How do you feel? We got time for one last question. Honored to be the last question. and nervous, apparently. So I'm hoping that I can... All right, so I'm not gonna...

I don't want to get tomatoes thrown at me, but I'm not an emo kid. I was more of like a grunge kid during my emo years. Thank you. Yes, I do love life. Yeah, grunge kids famously love life. Well, I'm hoping that I can describe

a spiritually emo experience I had recently and for you to match me with an emo recommendation to set me off on my journey. Okay. So my spiritually emo experience recently was coming into the new year, Google searching my ex for the first time since we broke up five years ago. Don't do that.

And I know. And bleaching my eyebrows and looking at myself in the mirror while listening to the Jeff Buckley episode of Van Splane. That's fucking go. Are you okay? I am okay against all odds. Okay. To match that energy, Google. Googling the X in the January.

Can I add? I found out that he is now a pastor. Damn, honestly, that is kind of the best case scenario. But back story. He married God. He did tell me he was a born again Christian so that we could stop sleeping together and then I found out he was cheating on me the whole time.

He likes emo music. I promise you. That guy loves brand new. Okay, what match? I got one. I got, um, when I was in the, uh, fifth grade, I dated, um, I dated someone for two years, which is, what are you talking? Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, it was a fifth grade to seventh grade. That's, that's real. After six months of dating in the fifth grade. Did I not say wife guy? That's like such early wife guy behavior. That's like, rookie of the year, wife guy. Yeah. After six months of dating in the fifth grade.

She came out to me at recess and said, how come you've never talked to me before? And I said, oh, do you want me to, should we talk? And she was like, yeah. And we ended up, I gave up sports and we just would, for recess for a year and a half. We would just walk around it. And I learned to talk, and we'd talk about music.

I remember when Razor Blade's suitcase came out. We were like, we were like, what do you think about, you know, swallow. There's like a straight-no chaser. You know, like, we were like, it's so depressing. We love it. Anyway. And it was so was like my first like love.

And she, she dumped me. But after two years. Over the phone while high and dry was playing. Oh, wow. Yeah. Pretty sure my whole entire family was listening to be crying. I think you misunderstood the assignment that I do love that story. I love that.

No, she wanted a recommendation of music that matches that. It's a high and dry radio. I'm really glad that you misunderstood. that's an incredible piece of information that I don't know about you that is really insane. Yeah. Yeah, good luck.

That's okay, yeah. This might just be, and tell me if I'm off base, and I don't want to encourage further of this behavior. No, I'm fine. Okay, but I recently listened to American football for three weeks straight or whatever, because I had to for my job, and it felt like that.

Okay. Like, it felt like I was like, je telephone. ambulance. Need to go hospital right now, please. But it is really good music. I just don't listen to it for three weeks straight.

This band came up briefly is not actually literally emo, but it's a great breakup record. If that's maybe what you're looking for. I don't know what I'm looking for anymore. Foolish by Superchunk. It was an incredible breakup record. So I recommend. Not an emo band.

Again, both of you, not reading comprehension. It was okay. It was mostly for you. Keep an breath. Thanks. Thank you. You guys, thank you so much for coming out

in the freezing cold. This was wonderful. Thank you to Pat Flynn. Thank you, Christopher Ryan. Thank you, anchovies, Boston. I love you so much.

I'll think of you forever. And come back next week for a new episode of Dance Play. Also, we'll be at the Coolidge tomorrow showing Repo Man. I believe is at 930s. Yeah, I think doors are at 9 and then shows at 930 if you guys...

And we'll be hanging out at Coolidge like a little bit before then. Yeah, so come on. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we didn't do the winner. Oh, who do you guys think won? If you think it was me, clap. Thank you.

If you think it was Pat Fling, clap. That was pretty good. If you think it was Yasi, clap. It's every Yossi live show that Yassi wins. Thank you, guys. I feel like it's a little unfair, but I'll take it. Thank you so much. If you liked what you heard today, subscribe for more episodes of Bansplain.

Our guests today were Chris Ryan and Patrick Fulain. This episode was produced by Rob Sunderman and edited by Adrian Bridges with help from Justin Sales, executive producers for Bansplaine, or Gina Dalbeck, and me, Yossi Salick. Our gorgeous and catchy theme song was composed and performed by Bethany Costantino and Jennifer Clavin and graciously recorded by Carlos Delagher in Los Angeles, California. Special thanks to our producer emeritus, producer Dylan, aka Dylan Tupper Rupert, and also Sean Fennacy, Elizabeth Fehrman, and Anchovis Bar in Boston, Massachusetts. come back every Thursday for a new episode of Bansplaine on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.