Bandsplain - Incubus with Chris Deville

Episode Date: November 9, 2023

From cutting their teeth playing backyard parties to testing their mettle on the road as the sensitive misfits on the Nu Metal circuit to becoming one of the more experimental bands in popular rock, Incubus have always had a strong sense of self. Pardon us (and special guest Chris Deville) while we burst into flames… Follow Chris on Twitter @chrisdeville Listen to songs we detail in the episode HERE Host: Yasi Salek Guest: Chris Deville Producer: Jesse Miller-Gordon Audio Editor: Adrian Bridges Additional Production Supervision: Justin Sayles Theme Song: Bethany Cosentino Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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What's with this band anyway? I don't get it. Can you please explain? Wait, like, Bandsplain? Hello and welcome to Bandsplain. I am your host, Yossi Salad. This is a show where I invite an expert guest on to help me explain a cult band or iconic artist. Today's episode is about Incubus. If you've never heard Incubis, meet me in outer space, babe.

I'm going to tell you all about them. You guys are a guest today is the managing editor of Stereogum and ringer contributor, Chris DeVille. Welcome to the program, Chris. Great to be here. Is Incubis a cult band or an iconic artist? Honestly, like really little column A, little column B now, don't you feel? I do think so, yeah. It really depends who you ask.

I think if you went to South America, they would say both and more. They're a very come-to-Brazil core. Tell me, first, before we get into it, why, you know, you wanted to do Incubus. You know, I'm like your classic, you know, basic indie rock dude who fell in love with Radiohead in high school. And Incubis was my last favorite band before Radiohead. They were like the new metal band that helped me, you know, kind of my gateway out of new metal and into other kinds of more hipster friendly bullshit. So Incubus was the bridge between you, between new metal and radiohead for you, is what you're saying.

I guess, yeah. What radiohead album are we talking that radicalized you at high school? I literally had a moment walking along a beach listening to OK Computer on the sophomore year jazz band trip. Well, that's beautiful. Yes. We love that. It is, we're going to get into it, but it's actually, to me, very funny that. Just by nature, and this is with all love and respect to your profession, just the, like, sort of laziness of music

journalist that Incubis was ever lumped in with New Metal, like, they never were a new metal band. Like, they even, you know, you could have called them Primus cosplay or something in the beginning, you know, but like it wasn't new metal. It was just that they were kind of later than most of those like punk-funk-type bands, because that sort of started like red hot chili peppers primus et cetera mr bungal and so that they were sort of like swept in with this wave of new metal but like they don't really have a new metal musical characteristics i mean i'm not a scholar of new metal but that's my hot tank oh it's true they they were not really ever a new metal band it wasn't just the journalists though it was like

concert promoters like that they were on the family values tour it was everybody else also I mean, they were on Oz Fest, you know, and the Family Values Tour, and they were touring with, like, System of a Down and stuff. Yeah. I think that was probably, we'll get into it. It was probably the label, and namely the ANR who signed them, who also signed corn. Let's just get into it. Brandon Charles Boyd, born February 15, 1976, an Aquarius in Van Nuys, California. He grew up in Calabasasas, pre-Cardashians.

His mother, Priscilla Dolly Wiseman. She was an artist, babe. Okay, she had artistic tendencies. She was a singer, a dancer, a painter. Later, fiction writer, we'll get into that. And his father, Charles Boyd, also dabbled in Tinseltown, okay? He, according to Wikipedia, which is a liar, he was a former Marlborough man. Actually, according to my research, he was the Salem man, not the Marlbrough man.

Because like Marlborough man, I think we kind of would have known. But no, he was in Salem Cigarettes ads. Also, on a few episodes of Days of Our Lives, and in Julio Iglesia. video. So Calabasas in that time, you're the SoCal expert here, but you noted it was pre-Cardashians. That's right. Was the vibe back then still, you know, kind of similar to the current Calabasas' vibe? No, I think Calabasas has gotten much bougier in my experience. I mean, Calabasas is sort of close to like, it's an interesting place because it's like close to Malibu in a sense because you just go over the hill and you're in Malibu, but it's very north, but it's also close to like thousand oaks.

It's, it's suburbs. It's sort of like not super fancy suburbs. Okay. But yeah, no, there was not an arrow on there back in the 70s, 80s, 90s, you know, that's recent. Right. Also, did you know that his cousin, Berto Boyd, is an accomplished flamenco guitarist? Only because I looked at his Wikipedia page. Same. and his cousin, Sam Boyd, a professional motocross rider.

That's very Calabasasas, Agora Hills, is like, people are motocross riders. That's like the vibe. That's the energy. Okay. So Brandon Boyd and drummer Jose Paseas, born April 26th, 19776, a Taurus. They went to elementary school together. In the eighth grade, at A.E. Wright Middle School, they meet Mike Eisinger, born June 21st, 1976, a Gemini.

He was a big guitar nerd. He, I think he had an accident, I read, and then he, after the accident, sort of retreated into his bedroom and just played guitar all the time and became sort of an incredible guitarist. So then they go to high school, this little trio, and they meet bassist Alex Katoonich, born August 18, 1976, a Leo. A real hodgepodge of star signs. Alex had just been kicked out of jazz band for not knowing how to read music. Brandon Boyd has gone on record many times saying he had no aspirations of being a musician. He wanted to be a visual artist. That was his dream.

Painter, cartoonist. And at 15 years old, they started going to see shows, right? And they would see like Red Hot Chili Peppers, Mr. Bungle, Allison Chains, Bjork, Pearl Jam. We used to be a proper society, is what I'm saying. Went to the 92 and 93 Lollapaloozas, saw Toul, saw Rage, saw Rage. like Temple of the dog, babe. He was really living. So he got really into music.

And then the rest of the lads were like, we should start a band. Like, you know, Mike is so good at guitar. Alex, even though he doesn't know how to read music, does play bass. We have our drummer. And Brandon, you are hot and like to take your shirt off. So you should be the lead singer. I'm not just saying that. That was said by Brandon Boyd in an interview.

And he was like, yeah, well, I never thought about it. being a band, but I am hot and I do like taking my shirt off. So why not let's do it? And they pointed to me in there like, and you like taking your shirt off and their long hair. You should be the singer. So I was like, okay. Is it okay about the hot. I wasn't aware that the shirtlessness was like, you know, a foundational principle. I mean, it's wise. It's smart for this band to be like, we need a hot and willing to be shirtless front man because it got them a lot of mileage. It really. did. I would argue 80 to 90% of the mileage of incubus in the early days had to do with the

hot and shirtlessness of Brandon Wood. So good on you, musical trio for deciding that. So I guess at first they played Metallica and Megadeth cover songs. Here's where I happened upon a geo city's ass, like, you know, hot pink text upon a black background, defunct band bio page and got this information. Here's some of their early song titles, Purple Kool-Aid, Sylvester Polyester, My Soul, in parentheses, The Underground, and the Milkman song. They start playing shows, namely their first shows in 1991, at a party for their friend Kristen, who was a believe that, Kristen's house. They didn't have a name yet, though, right? Brandon stated, it has to be gnarly. He suggested spiral staircase. It was not

decided upon. Another idea was chimera. Alex suggested chunk of funk. Okay. Then Mike got out of thesaurus, found the word incubus, and read the definition. I don't think this part is true because thesoruses famously do not have definitions as they. Sinemes, yes. It's a book of synonyms, but I'm going to allow the GeoCity's bio to do its thing. Do you think chunk of funk would have gotten as far. We've ever made it. Yeah. No. I don't. No, no do I. I don't think so. Everyone will be like, we're all set here. Incubus is a great name. They liked it because it had sex connotations because, you know, they're teenagers. And so it sticks. They have a terrible first show. Apparently, Jose got off the drums and tried to run around them, like during a break in the song

doing some, you know, some theater. And instead he fell and knocked the whole drum set over. So it was not totally successful, but they started playing shows. They started playing shows at lots of parties and then also all ages clubs in the valley and finally at the famous Roxy on the sunset strip. According to this band bio, and I could not confirm this, this only happened because Mike found a $100 bill on the ground. I did not know the Roxy was paid to play this early on, but maybe it was. Apparently also, I found this somewhere else. Maybe you read this. too, there was a spin cover story about Incubus in 2001 that they were so nervous before this first Roxy show that Brandon's mother led them through a group meditation where she had them all

lie on the living room floor and visualized swimming with dolphins in the ocean and they were so relaxed after. That I feel like really unlocks Brandon Boyd for me just knowing that about his mother. I'm all obsessed with his mom. She seems cool as hell. She's an absolutely weird hippie and very awesome, and they're very close. They're all mama's boys. I learned those two.

Just good kids. Just good salt of the earth kids. Okay, 1994, they record their first demo. It's called closet cultivation. I don't know what that means. They get approached by a tour manager named Mark Schoffner, who's like, you can record in my friend's studio. No strings attached. So then they record, I guess, a two-song EP.

Let me tell you about root beer. I've heard of this. Sure. It has the song New Skin on it, which did end up on a normal incubus album. And then as we think we is, but it's spelled A-Z, we think we I-Z. That's right. Let me paint the picture for you of 1995, Chris, before we get into this and also the fungus among us. Best-selling album was 1985.

Alanis Morissette's Jacket Little Pill. Massive for Young Gassia, I will say. Did I wear my hair in the braids that she wears? She's like the four different Alanaces leaning out the car window. Oh, ironic. Ironic, yeah. Oasis, what's the story in morning glory? Shanaya Twain, woman in me, no doubts, tragic kingdom.

Smashing pumpkins, melancholy and the infinite sadness. This is the musical landscape that we're introducing fungus among us. Yeah, fungus among us. and begins with you will be a hot dancer, which is basically, I guess, what the band members told Brandon when they were recruiting him to be the singer. So this is self-released.

It is produced by Jim Wirt. Did you know that Incubis was deeply into fish? Or if you didn't, does that surprise you even a little bit? No, not when you listen to it. When I was going back to Fungus Among Us, I couldn't believe like the kind of conservatory. jazz band, jam band energy that they had.

Yeah. Like the we study music at college and this is our fun party band that we do on the side energy. Totally. Yeah. That's, it's giving for sure. They definitely loved fish that this is, you know, they were going to the shows. They were walk around with a little drum and start jamming in the park. Yeah.

Let's talk about you will be a hot dancer. It's definitely, okay. I almost take back what I say about the new metal thing. It's giving me the energy of like if Faith No More was more later rap rock vibes, because it is kind of like a little heavier in a way. There's a lot of like funky slap bass and heavy percussion on these early Incubus songs. Definitely I started to write that there was something kind of corny about the bass. when I was taking notes on this.

Yeah, definitely funky, jazzy, but also kind of... Crunchy. Yeah, crunchy. That's a good word for it. What is... I've spent decades trying to understand what... Why Marmaduke is invoked on this song? Is there another meaning for the word marmaduke besides the, like, the dog with the comic strip?

Let's get this marmaduke naked. I honestly don't. know, babe. Maybe that was like a slang that I'm not aware of where you like, it's like a, like a loser or a dork or something. I guess it's just like. Well, I don't know. Maybe it was their own, they do seem like a band. I mean, in the, in the fishness of it all that has their own private vocabulary, you know? Yeah, sure. Okay. Like maybe that's just our thing. We, let's get this. Mama do naked. Me and my cousin used to call people garfunkels. That's not a known, that's not a known slang, but like what we understood what it meant. Like we'd like, oh, that person is such a carfuncle, you know? I can't believe.

Surely someone has asked Brandon Boyd about this at some time. Didn't come up in any of my, and you know I do do deep research, but it did not come up. Shaft is honestly not that bad of a song and it is invoking slightly corn to me, which it kind of gets me understanding maybe why they and our man was like, okay. I'll see what's going on here. Yeah, definitely the kind of rhythm section going hard. But Brandon is still like, even though he was doing like, you know, that Mike Patteny type stuff. Oh, was he?

Yeah. He was still like kind of wailing like, you know, in the mode that became his like standard practice later on. Just kind of like, I saw some interview where he was talking about. he used to just push his voice to the top of the range and just stay there and not even thinking about how when he was 45 he was going to still have to sing that stuff. Right. So I feel like that that was already happening even back when they were like the the funky party band. Yeah, with love and respect, I don't think anyone made this album thinking that they would still

be playing these songs when they're 45 years old. No. And they don't. I don't think. I don't think they play these songs. Take Meteor Leader is kind of good. I'll say it. I'll be on it.

It's good. It's a good song. I mean, the whole vibe was like, what if the chili peppers believe themselves to be intellectuals? No, it's like very much we have red hot chili peppers at home. This is like really, like, psycho psilocybin is absolute. We have red hot chili peppers at home. I mean, the red hot chili peppers believe themselves to be intellectuals. Have you not listened to some of those lyrics?

Well, that's true. We're doing poetry. We're all doing poetry. But yeah, okay, look, isn't my favorite album of all time? No. Do I put it on for enjoyment? The answer is no. But okay, like, they're teenagers, their inputs are clearly visible.

Like, we like fish, we like Primus, we like Mr. Bungle, we like red hot chili peppers. And also, I think, reveals a little more, but maybe what I said I heard in Shaft and maybe a little bit and you will be a hot dancer is that grunge influence too. Because there is a little bit of that, like, crunchy guitar and sort of like heaviness that I think comes more from like a sound guarded Allison Chains place, you know? Yeah, kind of a prerequisite for 1995 rock band. Yeah, because of the Red Hard Chili Peppers had not started in the 80s. They would have had that input, too. You know what I mean?

But they don't have that input because they're just a pure punk funk band that they're taking from punk and they're taking from funk. But like, you know, Inkebus being a little bit later also had that sort of seeping through their veins. I'll tell you what happens after this. They add Gavin Cople, known by his state. name DJ Life with a Y to the band. From their later bio, the Incubio, also eageragiously on a webpage, I think this one is like blue writing on a black page. I'm losing my eyesight. In 1995,

DJ Life saw Incubus play live and asked if Inchus would be interested in using some of his hip-hop tracks. Life joined full time after one rehearsal. We didn't want the turntable to sound like somebody scratching a snare drum like it sounds on a lot of rap records, explains Mike. We wanted it to be more of an instrument with its own. sounds like that of a keyboard player or another guitar player. As a rapper, life is very rooted in hip-hop, adds Brandon, but since he learned to spin discs with a live band Incubus, rather than with pre-recorded music, he's got a different approach. This is a big deal, I think, adding DJ life. Yeah, I mean, you can still hear, I know it wasn't still him. Like, I know

they swapped in a different DJ later on, but the scratching is still evident even after they transformed. It's still part of the mix. But yeah, that's a, it's a very mid to late 90s move, whether you're a new metal band or not. I was going to say that was like another new metal signifier, but even like sugar, even sugar A, I guess they're former new metal band also. They were more like a hardcore punk band. Okay. For being honest. Yeah, it was, it was very like in at the moment. And it kind of does explain to me why given like the material of fungus among us, but if that starts live incorporating a DJ, and then that's where you're picking up a following, and also that's where label people are seeing you with the DJ, there's going to be

more of an impetus to sign you to this like sort of swelling popularity type music, which is going to be rap, rock, or new metal or whatever. And that's exactly what happens. The same guy that signed Corn, Paul Pontius. It was originally Sony's immortal records later became epic. So he signs Incubus. Corn's self-titled debut had come out in 94 and it went gold in like four months. So there's like a precedent of popularity for this kind of music and there was clearly like a reason to sign a band in that vein because like you're going to see dollar signs. So this is, they get signed when like 95 right when the I think it sounds like 96.

Yeah, they signed you like a seven record deal, which is Yeah, that's insane. Is that, was that like standard practice to sign a seven record deal? I do think so. I do think in the 90s, these like kind of big, not even just in the 90s, I think even prior, like that was sort of, this is when record labels had so much power and like they would sign you to these really long deals.

And also they were teenagers, you know, so they were probably like, cool. They're like 19 years old, you know. So they sign, and then meanwhile, that same year, 96, Corn's Life is Peachu comes out, which is obviously like a huge, really successful album. Then in 97, they put out Enjoy Incubis, which is just a little holdover EP that has some of the songs from the first Fungus Among Us album,

and then as we think we is on their own version. So that's a little thing. then they go on tour with corn before their major label album comes out. Here's what Brandon Boyd said about that. We did a two-month run with them and never felt like anyone was trying to hold us back. I felt like we had support. They would see us going to our van, sometimes limping to the show as the van coughed its way to the parking lot. We weren't necessarily supposed to partake in the catering, but they would see us show up malnourished and underslap and be like, have you eaten?

Why would they not be able to access the catering? It seems crazy. Anyways, they had a lovely experience with corn. They loved them, which further leads to my long-held view that corn is the kings among the new metal bands and actually nice and good people and not disgusting horrible men. It seems that way. We did a stereo gum interview with Jonathan Davis where he was talking about, like, owning a recording studio in Bakersfield and, I don't know. He's interesting dude and seemingly not a piece of garbage, yeah. They seemed great. I loved corn. I got a corn cassingle when I was, God, pre-self-titled coming out. It was blind. Wow. Yeah, it came with a skate magazine. I've told this story a bunch of times, but I loved it. And I also had no context. There was no such thing as New Metal. Yeah, I just thought it was a fucking sick song. I've been a corn lifeer ever since. Okay, so they're on this tour with corn. They're playing their new songs from S-C-I-E-N-C-E, which from here on out will just call science because I don't.

I want to say the letters every time. You guys know what I'm talking about. And then one more thing happens before science comes out, which is they have a song with DJ Greyboy on the Spawn soundtrack. Oh, baby. The Spons are not going to get sick. I mean, it was very much like, you know, Judgment Knight-esque, which is very cool. They paired a sort of new metal rap rock bands with more like, I don't know, DJs and stuff, but it rules. I remember the filter and Crystal Method song

Can't you trip like I do? Yeah. That's sick. There's a butthole surfers song with Moby on here? Yeah. Listen, they're trying stuff. They're trying and stuff. The Incubis and DJ Greyboy song is called Familiar.

Anyways, I just wanted an opportunity to bring that up. But, you know, Immortal slash Epic Records is already doing their thing. getting people some soundtrack placements. And then science comes out, September 9th, 1997, produced by Jim Wart. Yes, classic album. Is it a classic? Is it a classic album? Tell me a about it. It is to me. Brandon Boyd would disagree. He said it makes his palm sweat to listen to it now. I still think it's good. I've been listening back, been trying to channel my like 15 year old self. Are you wearing a hemp necklace in this vision? No, I was, Yasi, I was never quote unquote cool enough to wear a hemp necklace.

You weren't even cool enough to own a hemp necklace. Did your mall not have a Pacific Sunwear? Where are you from? Ohio. Yes, Ohio. I'm from Columbus, Ohio. You and Robert Harvilla. Yes, I'm one suburb over.

I grew up in the suburb where he lives now. And I currently reside one suburb over from him. But yes, we did have a pack son at the mall. I just, I don't know. I don't have any excuse for not wearing a hemp necklace while I was rocking out to science by Incubus. I will say my pathway into this record was

they had the Family Values Tour compilation CD and it had new skin. I almost call it New Slang, like the Shins. Very different vibe. New Skin was on the Family Values Tour album and I was like, who is this band? What is this band? I think that I've never,

I was never like constitutionally a new metal person. I just was like kind of along for the ride with corn and limp biscuit and all that. It was, you know, I enjoyed it. I liked that it rocked. But then, you know, I think the mama's boy quality that you, you intuited probably came across. It's like it seemed like slightly less gruesome. I don't know. I didn't feel like I had to hide this CD for my.

parents or whatever. No, 100%. I mean, Limbiscuit was like giving date rape and you're like, I don't feel uncomfortable. And then you have like incubus who just seemed like good boys. Also, you had death tones around the same year. I just want to say around the fur came out, which is a fucking fantastic album. You know how I ended up with Around the Fur was because I went to my local record store in uptown Westerville, Ohio, called Sour Records, RIP to that. And I brought home a Godsmack album. And my dad was like, no, you can't, it's called Godsmack. You can't have it.

So I took it back and exchanged it for around the fur. Little bit, you know. Much, you know, just trading it in for the record with like the straight down the bra shot on the front cover. But. Such a great. Mascarra baby. Also, they played my own summer shove it video on MTV at that time. They did.

Anyway, science. I think that it was like this perfect mixture to me of the punk-funk stuff and the new metal stuff where part of what I liked about it so much and what I still kind of like about it is just the way that the songs would kind of toggle between modes and it was just kind of like rapidly switching between these like big chunky power chord riffs into like kind of funky, snappy little grooves. And I feel like the kind of funk

that they were bringing on this record was like like cool funky instead of corny funky, if that makes any kind of sense. Like there's something about the grooves that they were locking into

at this time where it was like, I don't know, like they had developed taste or something. They just got a little older probably. This was not on my radar in 1997. I won't lie to you. around the fur was, but not science per se. It is markedly better than fungus among us.

Like, it's kind of a huge leap. Gigantic leap. Yeah. And I'm wondering if that's some of the input of the label. That's also just me getting older and, like, taking it more seriously. I'm going to read you a little more from the Incubio. Please do. Some people say science just isn't fun.

They see it as dissecting a frog, determining the theory of relativity, having to share your microscope with the geek who invests in pocket protectors. You don't hear a lot about pocket protection anymore. Some people just don't know better. They've forgotten about experimentation, fusion and fission, and big bangs and blowing things up. They've forgotten science can be fun. In the incubus form of fusion, the nuclei of funk, thrash rock and hip-hop are joined together or fused at temperatures evoking pleasurable sweat to form a single, heavy nucleus called science, ejecting 12 powerful sonic neutrons in the process.

That's deep. Yeah. Brandon was definitely, uh, for a few albums there and definitely here, kind of. Brandon has thoughts. He has theories. He's connecting with the, with the source energy, you know? He kind of strikes me as like the archetype in movies of, of like the, the, the boyfriend who like kind of treats his partner like shit and has a bunch of like kind of talks down

to everyone and has a bunch of like intellectual pseudo intellectual theories. No, Brandon Boyd would never. He's so nice. You can tell he's like a nice man. How dare you, Chris? Yeah, I don't know. I've never heard anyone say one bad word about this man. I've watched hours of hours of footage of interviews with him.

Just seems lovely. Just nice, broad-minded, unwilling to malign other people. It just seems like a good man with good values. Maybe. Don't you think the lyrics are kind of smarmy? Like, it's just kind of like talking about the zombie-fied somnambulence society and TV, what do I need? Tell me who to believe. It's not smarmy.

It's just like a 20-year-old who, like, smokes weed and it goes to the head. shop, you know what I mean, and like, says namaste or whatever. Like, we know, that's fine. That's harmless. I mean, I think you can go in a terrible direction, but, you know, here it's simply, I went to UC Santa Barbara, babe. I had the hem necklace. We already, we already know the fucking vibes. Like, yeah, did you have a fucking Tibetan prayer flags hanging in your bedroom? Probably. That's fine. Okay. Did you experiment with didgeridoo a little bit? Sure. It was a different time, okay? we were communing with Mother Earth and just like thinking big thoughts. Again, we're 20 years old.

We don't malign Brandon Boyd here on this podcast. He's a stand-up man. I say not knowing him at all, but. I do think the extremely 20-year-old, like, dorm room intellectual quality of his lyrics were like, you know, probably part of the draw. Yeah, I was thinking you're the one who liked it. Yeah. I'm owning myself here a little bit.

Yeah, he's still doing a lot of the Faith No More kind of action. But you also get the crooning, like you got summer romance, anti-gravity love song. It's kind of hammy. There's like a weird trip-hop break in there too, but then the chorus is like this. It felt like it was like they were trying to be campy or something at the time. but maybe all so serious at the same time. I felt like that was one of the more impressive things of it to a teenage me. It was like, wow, they can rock, but they can also do whatever this is.

You're like, the range, the range of this band. As they said in the Inky bio, they're fusing stuff together. Yes, yes. You know who really liked this album was Geddy Lee. Did he? Yeah, a rush. Apparently he also at one point expressed interest in collaboration. with Incubis. Makes sense. This is a

this is a base, a creative bass album. Very base forward. Base forward. Totally. Yeah, you know, like, there's like New Skin where you were like, wow, I didn't think tribal drums and scratching would appeal to me in combination,

but actually it's quite good. I like it. I mean, New Skin was the gateway and it's like, some of the stuff I liked about it most of the time was probably the least invented parts of it, just like the big

power cord riffs. Like I couldn't wait. The day I got my driver's license, I like went to Best Buy and had a CD player installed in my car because it didn't have one before. And as soon as it got installed, I had to put in Science by Incubus and

rock out to redefine the opening track. Oh, Redefine. I'll tell you. Brandon said, Redefine is about the creation of your own reality and your own world. The metaphor I used was humans being like magic markers. For so long, painted black and white pictures in their life because that's all they thought they could do. But they can paint with a different color and make a very vibrant and beautiful picture if they take

control. That's from the incubio also. Yeah. There's a lot of that like kind of talk on these early records. It's idealism. It's like youthful idealism, which is pretty cool. Listen, given the landscape of what else was happening with new metal, like you get into the like we said, the limb biscuit of it all. and you're like, I'd rather some guy talking about how you should paint with colorful magic markers and expand your mind and stop being under the control of the government or whatever than whatever the fuck was going on over there, you know? Yeah, that's very fair. How did you find this album? Because, again, I lived abroad in 97, so like I'm not 100% sure what was on MTV. But I don't recall new skin or any of this being on MTV.

It was on the Family Values Tour. Oh, okay. So you said you got the Family Values. Valley's tour CD. You didn't go to the actual tour. You just picked up the comp. No, I would not have been allowed to go to the Family Values Tour. I don't think I ever went to even Oz Fest when I was in high school. I did go to my local radio station bash that had Kid Rock and Power Man 5,000. The Family Values Tour was in 98, though, right? Not 90s. Yeah, the one that they were on. Yeah. So I didn't actually, I didn't get into it.

I definitely remember driving. I had finally had my license because I turned 16. and 98. It was over the summer, and I remember driving my little brother, who was super into new metal, because System of a Down played, is that right? He was loved System of a Down. I can't remember if that's why he went, but I definitely dropped him off at the LA one. I think it might have been at the Coliseum. Big, big memory of me driving a car. Magic Medicine is very, my note just says, hey, fellow kids, do you do drugs? It's a very do do drugs song. That's sort of a drum and bass kind of thing. But yes, the title.

But I'm the whole vibe of the song is like, you do drugs? We do drugs. A certain shade of green was the single, though, not new skin. Yeah, it's such a, like, it's not like a very intuitive chord progression on that one. It's kind of real herky jerky. I never understood why that one was the single.

They said people really really, related to it when they would play live before on that corn tour. So that's why. Here's what I want to tell you about this song, though. The line in it, are you going to stand around until 2012 AD, is a reference to an interpretation of the Mayan calendar, which dictated that the world would end on December 21st, 2012. Brandon Boyd apparently did not believe this, but it was on his mind.

And do you know why? It was because his mother was researching this. for a book, a work of fiction that she wrote called Maya Memory, the glory that was Palank. I'm going to give you the description of this book. It is 8869, and Lady Chanel Nab Chelle feels older than 17, as she is solemnly carried toward the beautiful city of Palank, Mexico. As she journeys from her home and to call to become second wife to Palank's high king, Lady Chanil thinks her biggest challenge will be to produce an heir to the throne.

But what Chenille does not realize is that an evil high priest lurks in the shadows, waiting to seize control of the city and snatch the throne out of her destined to be the mother of the new race. Lady Chenile prepares to carry out a life far beyond her power to change. But as the years pass and her husband ages, the people of Palank become uneasy. Their beloved city is in grave danger. As high priest Akhan Mai plots to rid Palank of Lady Chenile, the queen is propelled into a dangerous fight for her life and the lives of her two young sons. Brandon Boyd's mom also had two young sons, just saying. Desperate, she summons help from her elderly uncle, Men Lamont, her giant mute slave, Chuka Nuktze, and the King's Army General Kahl.

Only time will tell if she will succeed in her mission to save Palank from destruction in this compelling and passionate tale. Wow. So just saying, if you guys want that book, it's available on Amazon. What's the title of Brandon's mom's book? Maya Memory, Colon, the Glory That Was Palank. She wrote two books. that is, that's some backstory on that song. Favorite Things is about Brandon bucking against, I think, what he essentially felt to be the control of religion.

Yes. I'm surprised that. It's a pretty good song. I'm surprised, too. On Nebula, they used walkie-talkies for children to have a slinky type. coil between them. That's why it has that weird reverb sound. That's like probably the most like hardcore kind of song on the record. Yeah. I mean, it's it's a mishmosh of things. Okay. I'm going to tell you what. What I could find, there's two reviews of this album. Again,

there might have been more, but what I could find. The major outlets did not cover this. Pitchfork insanely did. You know why? Because it sounds like the dismemberment plan. They gave it an 8.7 or an 8.7. I, too, would give it an 8.7. I am not maligning this album. I'm simply saying there are albums that came out in the 90s, late 90s where pitchwork started that got these egregiously low scores and then science by Incubis. And don't think it's still on the website, babe, it's not.

I had to use the Wayback Machine because they're not advertising that they gave Incubis as science in 8.7. No, but they should. They should have, when they re-scored their reviews, maybe they should have, like, bumped that one up to, like, 9.1. It definitely has the word, it's got a fat chunk base, fat with a pH. PH. I could hear the pH in the way you pronounced it.

Yeah, I have read that review. I'm sure that when I was getting into Pitchfork, I, like, went back and checked to see what they had to say about my favorite band Incubis or former favorite band Incubus. and I was probably very excited to find out that they approved of Incubus. So Pitchfork reviewed it. What was the other review? Drop D Magazine?

Are you familiar? I am not. I'm familiar with the tuning from whence the magazine took its name, not the magazine itself. It's one of those ones where the review is really long, so I'm not going to read the whole thing. It's sort of set up as a, it starts ladies and gentlemen of the jury. my clients in Cubis are today charged with being mere faith no more clones and then he sort of makes his case. It's interesting that there were two reviews of this album and the one that was like a big conceptual review was not pitchfork 90s review. Kind of surprising. Yeah. Kind of surprising given what we

know of late 90s early era pitchfork. There was something about this style, this era of this era of incubus that I feel like has a lot in common with. I mentioned the dismemberment plan, which was like pitchfork darlings at that time, kind of wacky rhythm section going out of control. Sure. So that's, I have to assume that there's some sort of latent.

We like the dismemberment plan, so therefore we like science by incubus. But who knows, who knows what Ryan Shriver was thinking in 1997? Or James P. Wisdom, which is the nomad of whoever wrote the review. CMJ New Music Report also wrote of this album You've heard this kind of hip-hop metal fusion

From bands like Faith No More Living Color Rage Against the Machine and Biohazard But Incubis has got a bit more funk in its trunk Than any of these artists Never thought about Incubis' trunk before Or the funk that lays there within Okay, so what happens? The album comes out They take some of the funk out of their trunk

Well, not yet. First, they take the funk on tour With 311 and Sugar Ray which fits so perfectly, I feel, in my heart and soul. Sugarway, who also made, much like Incubis, who hasn't done it yet, but in our story, a quick turn to a different kind of music, and it benefited them greatly, financially. I guess Incubis was only supposed to perform on the first leg of that tour, but people loved them so much. They stayed on for the whole thing. Then in February 1998, you guys, tragedy strengths, okay?

DJ Life is fired from the band, replaced by DJ Chris Gilmore, I know, RIP. They just say that it was because of creative and personal differences and because Incubis could no longer be a, quote, productive family with him in it. The quote is from one of those Incubis fan sites. Like I said, they use the dark blue font on the black backgrounds, take it with a grain of salt. I don't know what they're quoting or who. Then they tour a bunch, right? They tour with bands like Snot, Head PE, System of a Down, Limp Biz Kit.

Like you said, Ozfest, 1990. apparently all this touring with the likes of Head P.E. and Limbiscuit and the lineup of Ospas, 1998, is what actually caused Incubis to change this musical direction into what ends up being their breakthrough huge album. For one, they did not like being called New Metal. Here's what Brandon Boyd said. It felt a little strange to be associated with some of the bands around that time who were very deeply misogynistic in their content and vibrationally kind of violent. So for years, it hurt our feelings that we were associated with so many of these bands who we felt we had no relationship with or similar to. He's not wrong, babe.

He's not wrong. These are nice men who are not, you know, fuck bitches in their lyrics. And they weren't really violent either. I mean, they just were funky. Funky and riffy. Monster riffs. Not even violently funky. No.

And they just want you to open your third eye or whatever. Exactly. So anyways, DJ Chris Kilmore, the new DJ, said, I think it was when we were touring behind science and seeing all these other bands who were out there ripping off bands like corn and the deaf tones in 311, bands that we enjoy and that we love. And I think we realized that that was happening. We went into the studio.

When we went into the studio to write Make Yourself, we said, okay, let's not do that. So there's all these quotes basically about how, like, they both were like not feeling necessarily the vibe of the bands that they were touring with or touring next to. And also they toured the world for doing science and they were sort of exposed to more. Again, they're like 21 years old, you know? So like, it's no surprise that they're going to like alter their musical direction.

Like you're hopefully not always going to be into what you're into when you're 19 and 20, case in point you know? Indeed. Mike said this. I loved this quote. It was a very masculine time in music and we were associated with that. We would be playing Ozfest tours with all these. different bands who are good friends, and there was pressure to be like that. I think the tenderness

and emotional side of the music was a reaction to all that aggressive music that was happening at that time. Our reaction was to go in the other direction. And go in the other direction they did, babe. Okay, so it's 1999. Back through your boys and millennium. Huge seller. Britney Spears, one more time. Massive. Santana. Supernatural. You forget 1990. It was kind of insane. by the peppers, one of the greatest. Also trying a little tenderness, the peppers at that time. Yes, totally. That was their higher power album.

That was their God album, and it's quite good. Speaking of God, also, Creed's human clay comes out that year. Creed is always going to be with us. What Nirvana wrought. And then we're getting a little into, you know, built to spill, keep it like a secret. The Magnetic Field, 69, Love Song. songs. Some other stuff is the Tigray album. Some other stuff is brewing. Yeah, that stuff is definitely

like had to come back to that stuff later. Yeah. There's definitely listening to make yourself in 1999. Not Bill to Spill. Yeah. Unfortunately, Jim Wirt is no longer employed to make these albums. Now we bring in a motherfucking legend bitch, Scotlet. Yeah, that's crazy. I knew Scottlett's name probably first from Incubus albums, to be honest, and then like... He's so upset with you. I know, I'm just going to... Yeah.

Then I later find out that he, like, you know, guided R.E.M. To superstardom, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, he was like an OG sort of like the bands of big stars' children, like the shepherd of those. Because he produced the DB's repercussion album in 82.

and then he also worked with Matthew Sweet. But then, yeah, his breakthrough kind of came in 87 when he produced document for REM. And he went on to produce Green at a time, automatic for the people, monster, new adventures and high-fi. Also, the self-titled 1989 Indigo Girls album, you know, with closer to find on it. Also, a criminally maligned replacements album, all shook down. It is maligned. I cannot say whether it's criminally maligned or not, but it is. Mary go around and sadly beautiful or top tier replacements tracks.

Fuck you guys. Also, sorry, extremely important for me, the 1994 sponge album rotting pinata. Plowed is a fucking eternal banger. Thank you, Scott, for giving that. It's lit. It's lit. Somehow, even though Travis Scott started decades later, he beat him to the It's Lit tag. Well, I don't, you know, in 1994, that was, they were still saying Marmaduke.

I was about to tell you the inspiration, because, Mike said, there's a, there's a corang oral history of Make Yourself. I'm sure you read it. It came on 2022. In this interview, Mike said, I really wanted Brandon to be more vulnerable. We had conversations about that. Some of them were uncomfortable. I felt like a lot of the music we'd written up until that point was personal, but some

of it was almost cartoonish, which is awesome and something that came very naturally to us. But I felt like we could really connect with people and write music that could make more of an emotional connection. That's challenging and a bigger risk. One thing I noticed in Brandon's writing around that time was that he started talking about himself more. It was exciting to hear because I knew people would connect with it. Brandon said,

it was around that time where I discovered artists like PJ Harvey. Hell yeah, Brandon. And started getting really enamored by lyricists. I really got into the idea of listeners interpreting music as opposed by telling them something verbatim. I thought that maybe there was an opportunity to leave something's unsaid, so it allows the listener to interject themselves into the experience. I feel like this album,

is where Brandon kind of stepped into his destiny as the missing link between Jim Morrison and Maddie Healy. That's a really interesting place to put him. He's, you know, kind of the poetic shirtlessness, but also the kind of like, I don't know. But he doesn't really have, you know what? He doesn't really have the dark side, I feel. I mean, everyone has some measure of dark side. But there's like a sort of like chaotic violent edginess to both Jim Morrison and Maddiehili, honestly. Like like I guess I have a stronger shadow element where I don't, I don't with Brandon Boyd, I don't see that as much.

You know, I feel like I keep putting out these, uh, these negative interpretations of Brandon Boyd and you are standing up for him. It's not even negative or positive to have this like dark edge, but I just don't think he has it. I think he's more integrated and sort of like presenting you his heartbreak in a very like clean and honest and open way without it feeling like he is going to OD or, you know, say something racist or whatever. Yes, it's true that I don't really expect any cancelable or, you know, toxic behavior from him. So maybe got to rethink that take. I feel it rings true to me, but I, since I can't defend it. in the court of band's playing. I might have to, you know, you're entitled to your opinions. I just, I don't see it. It's not giving for me.

One thing I was kind of really surprised to learn, which I unearthed in a article in a thing called Nouveau magazine, which I don't know what that is, but it was that the recording was like really tense. Like it was like not a pleasant album to make. Chris Kilmore, the new DJ said, we took four weeks to write, make yourself, and four weeks to record it. And then we were back out on the road. Early in our career with this band, we didn't stop. You were either touring or coming home to record. And then in Spin, they talk about the tensions, right? Which apparently, the band briefly entered group therapy because there's no some kind of monster style documentary about it, though, which is very sad, but they did do sort of group band therapy. But here's what

Brandon Boyd said reflecting on that tension in Spin magazine. When we're making music together, it's like five men making love in a very platonic sense. It's very very, very erotic because your spirits are intermingling. You're becoming one. It's also why it can get so heated. You're tapping into this electricity that's very primal. Wait, so is it erotic or platonic? Look, he said what he said, Chris, okay? It's platonic, but it can also be erotic. Okay. Friends of Benefits, Incubis. It's very, I thought that was very interesting. But also, again, very, he is in touch with his masculinity and sexuality. He doesn't need to prove anything to you, Christopher, or anyone else. It was just saying that it is there's a closeness and an intimacy when you make music with people that you're creatively linked to. And I get that. It's primal. Let's get into this album. I don't get group therapy vibes off of this album. Me neither. That's why I was so surprised to learn that that they were having crazy tension.

But maybe they were just burnt out. Sounds like they're touring all the time. Had no downtime. Then had to quickly write and then quickly record an album. It must have been stressful. And they're changing their sound and style. So yeah, I mean, they're only human. And privilege, let's fucking go, bitch. Like, this is like out the gate. It's good. Yeah, it rips. And the riff, you can tell they were on tour with 311.

It's like a very 311 kind of riff. Sure. God bless. Thank God. Nowhere fast. Also a great song. Yeah. And they started bringing in several songs on this record.

They kind of got this like floaty kind of the verses or, you know, you got your big power chord churning choruses. But, like, I don't know. It's like they kind of have this gravity-defying, kind of spacey thing happening during the verses that I liked a lot back then. I still like it now. Yeah, it's really good. I mean, the album is, honestly, it's a classic. Consequence is a great song.

The warmth is actually an insane jam, and I feel like people sleep on it. Like, it's a really good song. It's pretty good. I didn't have any notes on it. Don't let the word bring you. down. Not everyone here is that fucked up and cold. Yeah. That's a good sentiment. Yeah. That's, that's the Brandon that you know, really.

Exactly. That's what I'm saying. This is, he's, he's, I really like his attitude and his spirit, honestly. Again, I think you're wrong. That song is great. That could have been a single. I'm not, I'm not hating. I just, uh, didn't have, I didn't have thoughts on that one like I did on some of other songs. I'll skip over when it comes, not about song. I just don't have anything to say about it, but... We just got to get to Stellar.

We have to get to fucking Stellar, Brov. Oh, my God. What a tune. What a track. The riff. I mean, we haven't talked about Mike Eindzinger, you know, just the guitar action that is happening in Incubus at this time. But I don't even know how to describe the way he's sliding around the fretboard on this riff.

I just thought it was the coolest shit. ever. So yeah, and this is like probably the softest, prettiest song that they had released to this point, right? Like, I know they had the anti-gravity love song on the last record, but that almost came off halfway as a joke. Yeah, yeah, totally. This is just like straight up love song, and they made it slap. It goes. Brandon said Stellar was my experience of falling in love again, and it was a very different kind of love than the love I experienced as a teenager. It felt much more expansive, hence the Meet Me in Outer Space imagery. I was also just feeling blown away as I continually am by Mikey as a guitar player.

To your point. He's been fascinating me since we were little kids. We confound each other which makes for good creative partners. We throw each other's intuitions into the woods, then chase them down and find really cool gems as a result. He showed me that guitar riff, and it was so strange and like something I'd never heard before. And it was quite easy to write melodies too. It sparked a number of ideas. Here's another thing about this album that you might not know.

This is both a breakup album and a falling in love again album, which is why it's so emotionally rich and dense. Because Brandon Boyd had found out while he was on these endless tours that his girlfriend had been cheating on him. Ugh. Bruttle. But then he, because he's Brandon Boyd and looks like that, it was really probably no problem to fall in love. Again, which he does with a woman named Joe English, who I only know that because she is the same. star of the video for Stellar. That was his real-life new girlfriend.

Oh, actual girlfriend in the video. Yeah. Have you ever heard there was a cover of this song by Jamila Woods, the R&B singer from Chicago? Oh, I have heard it. And it slaps. Yeah. So everybody loves Stellar. It's like just a good song.

There's no getting around the path. There's just a good song. Can anyone else get away with the. with the lyrics Meet me in outer space I will hold you close If you're afraid of heights I need you to see this place

It might be the only way That I can show you How it feels to be inside you Probably not It's like the X-rayed version Of a whole new world from Aladdin Yes totally He's like on the carpet

And he's like this is like Not platonic erotic This is erotic erotic And somehow it's You know When he does it you're like That's nice That's sweet.

That could be in a Hallmark card because it's just so nice. Open up to the Hallmark card and it's just talking about how it feels to be inside you. Exactly. I really feel like Brandon Boy can get away with that. Also, I'm sorry, make yourself goes really fucking hard. That song rules. Yeah, that song.

It's like, it's like, my own way. Oh, it's so good. That's another one where the lyrics are a little bit like. Yeah, I don't know what he's talking about, to be honest. If you let them fuck you, there'll be no four. play, but rest assured they'll screw you complete until your ass is blue and gray. Babe, too much. Yeah, it's taking it a little far. Too vivid. But, you know. But yeah, that song has like a real, like, I don't know, like a kind of an explosive friction to it. Like fucking light in a match.

Sure. Yeah, that's a music writer thing to say. Yeah, it's, I am what I am. I'll just say it fucking goes. And then drive, goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. How could you have two ears in a heart and listen to this song and not be like, hell yeah. It's on rules. I like drive. I do feel like a little weird that drive is like what Incubis is known for in the popular imagination. I think it's their number one most stream song by like quite a bit. Yeah, it is our highest charting song.

It's like you got the whole beef situation recently where the dude is covering. it. So, I mean, it's got that open mic night energy. It 100% has the guy, like, anyway, here's Wonderwall. It's giving acoustic guitar at the fucking, you know, Kager party for sure. But that's why it's so timeless and amazing. It's why it's, the meme is, anyway, here's Wonderwall. Doesn't mean Wonderwall is not a fucking iconic and amazing song. I like drive. Yeah, exactly. I wish the stellar was like, if you're going to pick, like, the soft, pretty incubus song to be like the one. I know. I prefer Stella, too.

So that's kind of like, I don't know, how fans, you know, get kind of cranky about people only liking the one hit or whatever. I feel that way about drive. Yes, but I respect it. I would even say I like it, but it's not, it's not like the record, or it's not the song on the record that I'm like going to be jamming out to if I have my choice. It's kind of crazy because it definitely is their most enduring song and it's like the one that does me. make the most sense that easily translated to just like adult contemporary radio station. You know what I mean? Like, which I think is part of what made it.

But this wasn't, this wasn't the lead single. No, it was part of me. It was pardon me. Which fucking banger. Okay. Fucking banger. But part of me also didn't even hit on radio. It only ended up becoming a hit because they kept playing it.

in radio, alt radio sessions acoustic. And the acoustic versions were being played on alt radio and getting like tons and tons of attention and airplay. And so that ended up making the song big was the acoustic version, not the real version. I thought that was so interesting. And I do remember. I remember K. Rock playing the acoustic version. That's like how I first heard this song.

Yeah. I remember it was on the When Incubus Attacks EP. Which they literally, it was literally a vehicle for them to just put out their own acoustic version. Let's all be honest. but that's totally fine, as you should. You should benefit from that. Absolutely. But yeah, it's too bad that the real version didn't catch on

because it's like pretty wild for like the chord changes are just like all over the place. And it got like some more of the drum and bass vibes happening on the verse. But then the chorus is so straightforward and clean and fluid. And then all of a sudden here comes the turntableism again. It's like, here comes DJ Chris Kilmore. On the ones and twos. You know it.

It's kind of like, it's a great transit. Maybe this is why they chose it as the lead single, because it's like, it's kind of like, you can hear the science incubus getting streamlined in real time on that song. Totally. They were like, okay, this is our new version of science. Have you, do you remember the music video? Oh, yeah. It's egregious.

It's egregiously bad, this music video. And I'm so sorry, I say that with love and respect. But it is very interesting that you know. the man in it that plays future Brandon is his real dad, George, the Salem man. Yes, that's his real father. That's pretty cool. Once I learned that, I had a little more, you know, fondness for this video, but I remember seeing him being like, I don't know what the fuck is going on here.

I like how, I like how deeply intertwined the parents are in this story. They are close with their families. They are good, good boys who are close with their families. Even though I do believe his parents were divorced, but they were also close with the step-parents. We skipped over I miss you, which I will not do. I will not do that because that is also a goddamn gorgeous, beautiful song. I love that song.

Very pretty. It's so pretty. I really want to know, you know the lyrics that's like, to know that you feel the same as I do is a threefold utopian dream. I need to know what the threefolds are. Yeah, I was wondering about that myself. Like, you know. Brandon Boyd, please tell me. line. What are these three folds? I mean, it's just a beautiful song. Can I say I miss you?

You've only been gone 10 days, but already I'm wasting away. When I went back and listened to it, I realized like the guitar riff, like, uh, definitely was ripping that off like when I was sitting in my basement playing. Oh, you were anyway. Here's wonder walling, but copying. I miss you. Yeah, I guess so. I feel like I heard it and I was like, oh, man. This is like, a missing chapter of my life I've forgotten about. We didn't talk about Battle Star Scratchelachica either. Oh, we're about to talk about Battlesar Scratchelactica, because I'm going to tell you what's happening during Battlestar Scratchelactica. Brandon Boyd was missing from the studio, okay?

He had a dentist appointment. That's right. So they weren't going to waste a day, according to DJ Chris Kilmore. So we wrote a cool little track. I was out in the hallway scratching and Newmark and cut chemist walked by. And I was like, hey, do you guys want to scratch on this track we just did? And they did. Also, just need to note that around while they were doing this, 311 and Jurassic 5 were at the same studio.

And this song, it's absolutely Jurassic 5 was definitely next door, babe. Do you know what I mean? Like, I know from this song that Jurassic 5 was next door. They have nothing to do with this song actually, but they do. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, the spiritual energy. Absolutely. Their spiritual energy was transferred over.

Yes, correct. Although I really like Clean. I'm not going to lie to you. It's a kind of a generic 90s alt-rog song, but I like generic 90s alt-rock, so I'm happy to have it. Same included. Yeah. I think it's great. This is just a pretty, pretty great, pretty no-skips-ish album.

And it ends with Out From Under where, you know, another big inferno of a rock song. And we've got some more kind of classic Brandon Boyd lyrics to resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling. Yes. Knowing this, why do I defy? Because my inner voice is yelling. Is yelling. Yeah.

I mean, can't help it. Knowing this, why do I defy? He's an Aquarius. He marches to the. be of his own drum. That's classic Aquarius behavior. Aquarius is not long to be told what to do. They will do whatever they want against all odds at all costs. So I'm not surprised to hear it. This album got quite a few more reviews. Less than I thought it would, I think because it's their breakthrough, people weren't really checking for them yet. Slant gave it four stars. It's long so I'm not

going to read it, but they are sort of still being compared. Basically, it says, unlike Limp Biscuit or Corn, Incubis's fine-tuned application of hip-hop and metal isn't gratuitous or abrasive. I mean, they had just come off of the family values towards CD, so I mean, it's true. It makes sense that they're being compared. Yeah, and they're not wrong. It is, they're definitely doing something different with the same inputs. The Daily Vault gave it an A-minus, oddly long review. And Exclaim also gave it a positive review.

Incubis is simply an awesome band. Simply an awesome band. That's right. Journalism. Shout out Canada. Does well, yeah. But again, not, if it exists, I couldn't find a spin review and Rolling Stone, I don't think reviewed it because I would have been able to find that.

So it wasn't getting sort of major publication reviews quite at this time. This made me laugh very hard. So right after this album comes out, they go on tour with Primus and Buckethead. And I'm just like imagining the buckethead crowd being like, um, stellar. That's interesting. Okay, part, I miss you, that's cool. They did not come here for that. I wonder how they reacted.

You know, I feel like they probably appreciated the science material. Sure, yeah. They balanced it out with the science material. Then to start off 2000, they toured with System of a Down. Man, I love System of a Down. And Mr. Bungle. I think that was the Snow Corps tour. Correct, the Snow Corps tour.

Then, sort of a side note, but sort of interesting. The thrash metal band, Oprobrium, who had formed in 1986 under the name Incubis, was forced in 2000 to change their name to Approbrium because of Incubis, made up of brothers Francis and Moises Howard from Louisiana. Downgrade in the name. Sorry, Moises, but Incubis. I mean, they could have probably established that they were the first Incubis, but probably wasn't worth going up against the behemoths that had become.

the drive of it all. Pardon me. Can you change your band name? While I changed my name to opprobrium. Then it's the year 2000, the millennium, Y2K. Lincoln Park without a hybrid theory, kind of a big deal in this milieu. Limp biscuit, chocolate starfish, and the hot dog flavored water. For you, Radiohead put out Kid A, so that was a nice time for you.

Def Tone's White Pony. Fucking amazing. album. Also at the drive-in puts out relationship of command, which I do feel is going to be pertinent to our conversation a little bit. That is the turn of the century. That's when Incubis attacks comes out. Like I said, there's not much to talk about here. It's basically was a vehicle to put out part in me acoustic. They also put out stellar acoustic, make yourself acoustic, and a couple of live songs. Is this when they toured with deaf tones? Oh yeah, 2001. I definitely saw them play with deaf tones at

the Chatenstein Center on the campus of Ohio State University, the Ohio State University. With one side zero, deaf tones and cupis

at one side zero. Yeah. It's interesting how like, you know, deaf tones are revered now. And I feel like 311 had this whole

critical rehabilitation. Maybe it only happened on like a corner of music Twitter, but I feel like people... Is that true? I don't know. I feel like people respect 311 now. I have always respected

311, but I didn't know that other people shared the sentiment. I mean, I think a lot was done by George Clanton and his Nick Hexon album, which was very good. Right. I mean, that definitely contributed to it. But I don't feel like Incubis have had that kind of like comeback moment. Well, if they did, I missed it. I guess it was just the Jamila Woods cover of stellar. And they just did that tour. They were the Hollywood Bowl. People loved it. So I, you know, I think there is plenty of goodwill for Incubus. I feel like they deserve more. more respect than they get is, I guess what I'm trying to say. And maybe, I mean, they're not like a deaf tones caliber band. I'm not trying to argue that. But, uh, you know, in lieu of respect, they get

money and I think, were it me, you know, like, I'm sure Chino-Morino would be like, actually, I'd fucking be fine to have drive be my biggest song and have those fucking paychecks and be, like, critically respected for around the fur. I don't want to put words into Chino-Marino's mouth, but I'm just saying they are giving, I'm pretty, pretty sure those bags of money were soothed the soul. Yeah, they'll take it. Okay. Brandon Boyd does not seem materialistic to me, though, so maybe I'm totally off base here. He doesn't need much, you know?

He just has a didgeridoo and a sketchbook and a dream. Yeah, just staring out the ocean. Yeah. Exactly. But that Malibu crib is not cheap, bitch. Okay. I don't know if he loves a Malibu. Let's move on.

2001. Damn. I always like to mention that Nickelbacked silver side up came out in 2001, and then went on for This is How You Remind Me to be the Most Played Song on the Radio for the entire decade after. Do you know that? 2000 and 2010, the number one most played song on the radio, because this is how you remind me by Nicolbeck. I did.

I think I read about it. That's my favorite fact. I think I read about it in the number one's column on Stereogum.com. So there's a little plug for my place of employment. I love that song, and I feel that it's warranted. Take Off Your Pants and Jacket comes out that year Rock Steady by No Doubt, The Strokes is This It, System of a Down toxicity A lot going on in, damn Jimmy, World Bleed American, one of the best albums of all time.

Crazy, crazier. Morning View, October 23, 2001, recorded in Malibu. What does that say to you? That says the last album sold well. because they were like, oh, actually we'll put you up in Malibu this time. You guys can have a nice house in Malibu. It's actually why it's called that because they recorded on a street called Morning View Drive. Oh, that explains it.

Yeah. I forgot to mention that Alex Kutunich went under the name Dirk Lance. Did we talk about that? We didn't. Dirk Lance, I know he, when I found out that D. It is a porn star name. When I found out that Dirk Lance was, a pseudonym, I was disappointed.

You wanted that to be his real name. Yes. Yeah, I get it. So are you bringing up Dirk Lance in regards to Morning View? I don't know why. I just sort of saw that I had written Dirk Lans here. And I was like, oh, yeah, I forgot to mention this fun fact that he fully went my Dirklantz. On the first album, they all went under pseudonyms, but I think he continued to go under Dirklands like kind of the whole time.

Wait, what was Brandon Boyd's pseudonym? Brandy Flower. Okay. No, that's not. That's someone else different. Hold on. Fabio. Oh, happy nappy.

Happy nappy. Yeah. Brandon Boyd is happy nappy. Dirk Lance was Alex Katoonich. Mike was Fabio. Brandy Flower was a Sony employee. So they all had their little names. Okay.

Yeah. So anyway, they're hanging out at the beach house in Malibu recording a record. Brandon Boyd said every time we'd pull up. up onto the street, we had the view of the ocean, and Pacific Goes Highway. I got a big creative boner every time I'd show up to the house. Every time we'd pull up, DJ Kilmore would be like, ah, morning view, it's time to rock. That's from MTV.com. Creative boner.

Let's just get into it. Nice to know you. That's a banger. Okay? It just is. Yeah. I don't understand the sentiment of the song, because it's like he's so swooning and happy on the verse. And then on the chorus, he's like, nice to know you, goodbye.

I don't know what's going on there. But I agree that it rocks. I mean, it sounds like, you know, the classic thing of, you know, you fall in love and it's a fantasy. And then you begin to notice how much this feels like a waking limb pins and needles. And they're like, nice to know you goodbye. Do you know what I mean? I get it. Yeah.

Thanks for explaining it to me. You're welcome. That's what I do best here, explain and stuff. that was one of the singles, right? I remember hearing on the radio. I can't remember if it was. I feel like Circles was a single. That's a strange.

But I might just be, I might just be inventing that because I like circles. Oh, you're right. Nice to know you was a single. It was a second single after Wish You were here. Circles was not a single. You made that up. Okay.

Yeah. It's just a prominently placed album track. It's number two. Number two is not usually the banger placement. I feel like it's usually number three. one, three, maybe seven earlier on, but not by 2000. The 2000s, you're like one or three. Rage against the machine, I feel like they have some track two, banger placement,

like Bulls on Parade and Gorilla Radio. Anyway. Maybe that was more their thing. What are you like about circles? And again, you already found Radiohead, but you have not yet abandoned incubus. That's what's happening here. That is absolutely what's happening. I'm like, yeah, I've, I've.

Do you tell your new radiohead friends that you're listening to Morning View? My radio head friends are also my incubus friends. We're all on this journey together. Wow, interesting. Yeah. So circles, it's just like, it's got this big rock radio type riff. It's not very new metal, but it's just like a big guitar rock song. I don't know.

It's got heft. It's got momentum. I just feel like when I'm listening to my music, Morning View by Incubis, I get to circles and I'm like, wow, the song between Nice to Know You and I Wish You Were Here is really good. And I could have sworn it was a single. Do you have a memory or like a recollection of what cultural place Incubis occupied around this time? Well, it was such a weird time for mainstream rock music because it felt like like Limpisket and corn were kind of becoming Pass A on their way out. Lincoln Park was on the rise. This is like

when the strokes were starting to happen. I also was getting really into the strokes at this time, but I was holding on to my incubus roots. Did you feel like incubus was cool? They were cool to me and my friends. They... I think they kind of were cool still. Like I remember I remember Brandon Boyd being this like big heart throb. Yeah, there was definitely that happening. And he was like, and they were, and they were very alt, for sure, like, alt presenting. I don't remember if Brandon Boyd still had dreads at this point. No, I think he had short hair. The last album, he had short hair, and then maybe got a little bit longer, like, more, like,

you know, chin or shoulder length around this time. And he was definitely, and he had good style. This is kind of around when he started wearing, like, sweater vests, like, over, like, Oh, yeah. White Longsleeves kind of abandoned the, um, the more hemp necklacey thing of the past. I went and saw them I loved 311 too So like they were in that milieu for me

And I remember seeing them play in 2001 God it much I don't know if it was before after this album came out But they played at my college at UC Santa Barbara And me and my cousin Sonum attended They played with Alien Ant Farm Was the opener That's right

And my cousin Sonum fainted So Fainted She did yeah Like because of like I don't know if it was like a Beatles-esque mania fainting or like she just was overwhelmed by the crowd. I don't want to put words into her mouth.

It was 23 years ago or whatever. But yeah, she fainted. All right. I stood strong in the crowd. But it was great. Yeah, I feel like they were like getting a lot of plan MTV. They were 2001 was the year. They were on the cover of spin.

Lots of teen magazines were talking about Brandon Boyd. They were cool. I think this is probably the peak of them being cool. Yeah. They were cool enough before this that, like, a guy who was cooler than me at, like, at my high school was having me come over and teach him how to play Incubis songs on guitar. And so, like, they, you know, they were in there with the cooler kids. Right. But in terms of, like, yeah, I think that this is probably their peak moment whenever, but it was like, yeah, Incubis, that's a cool band.

That is, this is one of. of the leading bands in rock right now. I mean, I wish you were here was kind of a breakthrough for them. No? Yeah, I think so. I mean, it didn't chart as high as drive, but it was heavily in rotation on the radio. It was an MTV hit. Well, two things about that.

Did you know that there was an original video for I wish you were here? I did not. That was banned. Why was it banned? because it closely mirrored the September 11th attacks. Oh. And then I was like, that's not enough information for me. And what, what are you talking about?

I had to get, I had to get down more into this. Because I was like, what are you talking about closely mirro the September 11th attacks? Okay, so apparently the original video, they were emulating a scene from the movie Head by the Monkeys, which in the movie, there's thousands of screaming women and army people and cops and clowns and photographers chasing the monkeys off a bridge. And the only thing they can do is jump. So they shot a scene where they're running. away from all these people and they have to jump off a bridge and it shows them like falling down

into the water and MTV was like no. Why is this the video for I wish you were here? I have that. There was no explanation, but that was the video. It got banned. So then we got the other one, which is the, uh, isn't the video that ended up, isn't it just pretty literal? Like here we are, we're incubus and we're out of the beach.

Yes, yes. just him being hot. Which was, was it Drive is the one that's the like blatant aha ripoff? Yes, right? The drawing. I thought.

Which is the one that's? I don't think so. Maybe I'm, I remember, I remember just Brandon being sexy on screen singing his, no, it's drive.

Yeah, what I'm thinking about is drive. The aha ripoff. You don't remember that? It's the draw, all the drawing of Brandon. Apparently I was just listening to the CDs and not watching the videos.

Okay. And then I also another thing I want to tell you about I wish you were here besides that the original video is banned. Two things. One is MTV.com asked them, when you were coming up with the lyrics and the title for Wish You Were Here, Did You Ever Go Ever Go? This was a classic Pink Floyd song. Maybe it's not such a good idea. Brandon Boyd said, I asked the guys in the control room, do you think we should call it something else? All of them looked at me and were like, no, it doesn't matter that it was a Pink Floyd song, because it's not like the Pink Floyd song. We're a very different band. And then Dirk Lance said, most of our fans aren't old enough to know who Pink Floyd.

it is. Fairpoint or glance. They could tell that someday when people were typing it into Spotify, that, uh, yeah, they, they foresaw, uh, Spotify. This song is apparently not about any specific person. Brandon Boitza is about me acknowledging a very brief moment in my life and in my experiences with all these guys in making this record. In that moment, I wish that I had somebody to go, I love you, man. I was wishing that there was someone there to share that moment with me. So it's addressed to the royal. you. Yeah, I mean, I think he's just wishing that there was a you there to share in his joy. Kind of like how Carly Ray Jepson, like, missed you so bad before he came into her life.

That was my most played, you know, I remember when Spotify did the Rapt of the decade. Oh, yeah. That was my most played song of the decade. And I was like, oh, cool. I need to absolutely check myself into a mental institution because, like, I'm surprised they didn't actually, like, share that data with some sort of like government institution who then came to my house the next day and was like really call me maybe is your most played song of the decade we're taking you away now there's nothing wrong with listening to call me maybe a lot listen it's a great song but the most played song of an entire decade like what the fuck is wrong with me we will never know we will what were you hoping it would be i was just not expecting it to be carly ray jepson call me maybe. You really learn something about yourself. You really, yeah. Now my raps don't make any sense.

It doesn't matter. It's always just like whatever bands play in band I had to research the most. Yeah. What else is going on on this album? I'll say it, 11 a.m. We're really crooning now, babe. We've sort of left behind all the mic patent of it and we're in full crooner mode. Teenagers are relating really hard to,

him talking about how it's 11 a.m. And he should be out of bed by now, but no. Totally. I love Mexico. Sorry, it's gorgeous. I love it. All I need is some finger-picked acoustic guitar and old Brandon Boyd, and you have mad hello.

Yeah, that's a good one. I feel like that does the acoustic incubus thing really well. We're skipping over, blood on the ground. though, I see. I'm very sorry. I don't have any notes about it, but we can talk. We can talk about it. No, I mean, I just felt like that was like a very brandy kind of lyric. The, you know, I bite my tongue every time you come around because blood in my mouth beats blood on the ground. It's a little surprising because he doesn't seem like a violent man. I know. It's not the sentiment so much. It's just like the imagery. I feel like sure. Right. He loves it like a word play in a metaphor. It's nice.

And talking about body parts. Yeah. The visceral. I love warning. Warning. Yeah. I love it. It's a little, we have Pearl Jam at home, like a little bit.

You know, just like that. But that's okay. It still fucking goes. It goes this all. Yeah. I never drew the connection to Pearl Jam, but you're definitely right about that. There's a lot of early alt rock influence in Incubis. I think that's why it feels, it has that like sense of comfort and familiarity.

He also is like away message king on this like I suggest we learn to love ourselves before it's made illegal. Is that where you're going to say, Christopher? That is where I'm going, yes. He spit, babe. He was spitting, okay? Brandon Boyd's spitting. This song is great. I just want to say echo is just like stellar part two.

We don't really need it. We don't really need echo. It's not a bad song. It's just, you know. under my umbrella, you know, kind of eclipsed by Rihanna later on. There can only be one umbrella anthem. We can skip to the kind of like Asian pastiche. It's seven minutes and 46 seconds long, first of all.

The last minute is just frogs croaking outside the studio in Malibu. Brandon Boyd joke that this song was intended to make the listener pee in his or her pants from relaxation. Yes. You mentioned Agent Pestiche, your words, not mine, but it does employ a Chinese instrument called the PIPA. The PIPA. That's right. And the PIPA used on this recording was given to Mike Eisinger by Steve Vai. Wow.

Intersecting with the guitar center community. Exactly. For my guitar center heads, Steve Vye, who was in Whitesnake, the day, Billy Roth band, played in Frank Zappa's band. I mean, he's a, he's a ledge again to the guitar center community. I had to Google him. There was some, there was some, uh, back when I was like more into the shredding type of music pre before, before discovering new metal and then discovering incubus and then discovering Radiohead. He was on some tour with like Joe Satriani. The full guitar, sponsored by guitar center. I saw literally, I saw Joe Satriac. I saw, literally, I saw Joe

Atriani at the same venue where I saw Incubus in 311 when I was. You were like willingly went to go, like as a preteen, you were like, I need to go see Joe Satriani play. Oh yeah. Circa, Circa, Crystal Planet. His super sick Crystal Planet album. I had this band that only played one show when I was a freshman in high school. And it was like New Year's Eve basement party. And we covered, Are You Going to Go My Way?

and purple haze no foxy lady not purple haze and uh i had this original instrumental composition that was just like jo satriani ripoff core uh so yes that was that was part of my uh dna unfortunately i mean that's okay we all have we all have our thing long story short i know who steve i is sure you're like i'm familiar with steve i'm so yeah the That's Morning View. I think driven by the popularity of

Make Yourself and then this album sort of catapulting off of that, then we're really in the cultural conversation. So we get a bunch of reviews. Rolling Stone reviews this. It's a positive review. Unlike Stained,

who require a suspension of disbelief that they are essentially macho crybabies and Crazy Town, it's literally place you in, in time, who probably tinge their mock hop with Orientalism so they can score with Asian strippers. The coolest thing about Incubis is the way that they come front and center with their inner little girl.

They've got the tender lyrics, the non-linear arrangements, melodies you can soak in, and neck breaker riffs alternating with swaying metallic grooves that somehow say, love me, okay? I'm just saying this person could have said they connect with their divine feminine instead of the inner little girl, but who am I to? Backseat. edit a 20-year-old thing. Just saying, it would have been more accurate and honestly thoughtful, but that's just me. You should have been writing those reviews.

I'm illiterate. And Emmy didn't like it, which makes sense because this kind of music does not translate abroad. I've noticed in my deep researches, the 311s of the world, the David Matthews bands of the world, the fish of the world. across the pond, they don't want it. But you're saying, keep that, babe. They like and keep us in South America, though. Of course. Because they shred, babe.

You rock on the guitar, babe. They will welcome you with open arms in South America, as far as I can tell. They love rock music. They're single-handedly keeping rock music alive. Fair. The entire continent. Yeah. But, yeah, enemy at this time was like...

Four out of ten. Oh, good. Yeah. It's not a good. is this it? No, they were... No, no libertines. Actually, libertines probably weren't out yet.

This made me die, and I'm sure Ann Powers would never say this because she's humble and perfect, but the fact that they had Ann Powers review this album for Blender, it really tells you what was happening in 2001. The fact that Ann Powers had to sit down and listen to this album and then write about it. But she gave it actually a really

positive review. She said, Morning View shows incubus. feeling their oats and benefiting from arrogance. It's not quite as thrillingly risky as the deaf tones white pony, but it deserves the collegiate adulation it will likely receive. Deeper than the deepest custo would ever go, that's the goal for these ventings of post-adolescent passion. Classic quoting the lyrics. Yeah, that's good.

She says the best tracks are Are You In, which actually is a really good song. We even talk about that. Are You in is a really good song, kind of like a 70s soul song. and she loves Aquas transmission. Really? Yeah, she called it a boat ride through Middle Earth that Peter Gabriel will wish he'd taken. I mean, Anne's not wrong about that, I guess. That's what I'm saying.

I mean, it's cool. It's very interesting. And they do take risks. And, like, I mean, we've mentioned a couple of times, but, like, having Mike Eisenger as your guitar player and him being so just able to, like, do things that nobody else does and do these, like, he sat like strange chord progressions and like he's just like it's kind of all over the place in a way that's like really pushing creative envelopes like that's interesting and cool you know they could have just kept making the same catchy songs or whatever but they do seem to like on each of these albums try something different right and so it's like I feel like he's every bit

as important as Brandon or almost as important as Brandon and that's why some of the later stuff that we'll talk about, like, I feel like Mike's kind of creativity peters out or gets downplayed or something, and the songs get a lot more straightforward. But these ones definitely are, they're all over the place. His riffs are like, you know, kind of slicing and dicing in unexpected directions. Like, you know, the time signatures are weird. The chord progressions are weird, but they always like make sense intuitively. So yeah, shout out to Mike. Great guitar player. Yeah, incredible. I won't read all the rest of the things, but USA Today gave it three stars.

LA Times didn't like it so much, two and a half stars. This one I will read because I want to ask you something about it. Richard Cromwell wrote this. He said, there's something sincere and direct and admirably independent about it, but Morning View is performed and recorded so cleanly that it tastes of disinfectant. And its determination to be majestic and meticulous, it rarely admits spontaneity. Some of it is strikingly akin to the music of the great indie rock band at the drive-in. but while the latter was forged in Scruffy Tours of America's Rock Clubs, Incubis sound like a product of the Musicians Institute. Do you find the comparison to At the Drive-In make sense? No, I was trying to figure out how, when you said that that was going to factor in, I was like, how is this going to factor in? No, I don't understand at all. I guess they were both rock bands that were getting played on MTV2 in the year 2001 and on.

on K Rock, I assume. But yeah, I don't hear it. I mean, certainly not in the vocals. I was kind of, I mean, I think that's a, that's like a huge compliment. I love at the drive-in. I was like, oh, that's cool. That's a cool. But it is, I surprised me to read it.

Yeah, but I'm the guy who said that he was, you know, the missing link between Jim Morrison and Maddie Healy. So what do I know about? I honestly, it's true. What do you know? I'm just kidding. So who am I to judge? the critic who compared Incubus to have the drive-in.

They were both in my CD wallet at the time. Not your CD wallet. Robert Criscow gave this a C-plus. He didn't like it. Or I guess he liked it, okay. He liked it C-plus enough. You never know what he's going to say. He really is unpredictable.

But he did know that the eight-minute closing song featured Steve Weiss instrument. So maybe that was in the press release. So in 2001, Dirk Lance was quietly replaced by Ben Kenney, who was the former guitarist of the Roots. They don't really say what happened, but no more Dirk Lance. I didn't know about this crossover between Incubus and the Roots. Yeah, 2000 and 2003.

I guess he was really doing some double duty. The C2.0 era. Well, he had worked with Mike Eindziger on this other project called The T-Denzyg. in Lapse Consortium. It was like a psychedelic jazz funk project, so that's how they knew each other. Okay. So Dirklands is out. I did read something in one of the interviews earlier before he was out of the band where he kind of said that everyone else was like extremely positive and he was maybe not always as PMA and sometimes that caused some friction. So maybe that came to a head eventually his negative attitude. I have no idea. Much like the ouster of DJ Life.

Sure. AdJ Life also is not conducive to them being a productive family or whatever the sentiment was. In 2004, they take a little time off. I mean, they put out a live album, live at Lollapalooza. We don't really need to talk about it. It was a charity project. They donated the money.

And then in 2004, they put out a crow left of the murder. This one's interesting because they bring in Brendan O'Brien, who had, I mean, he's done a lot of crazy and cool stuff. but at this point, I think maybe most notably produced Pearl Jam, Stone Temple Pilots and Rage Against the Machine. I'm wondering if they were looking for maybe like a slightly harder sound. I feel like I hear all those bands a little bit in... Totally, totally, especially Rage. Thank you, Bus.

Yeah. Yeah, but I mean, you were just pointing out the pearl jamness of like, I think it was waiting. Obviously, that was the previous album, but like they were, it just like, it almost feels like a perfect match. Yeah, I agree. And he's like, I mean, he's so epic. He was also like the engineer on blood sugar sex magic. Like, he's a fucking legend. That's the real reason they hired him. It's true. That's I would hire him for everything based on that. So this album starts out like real hard, right? Like I mean, I don't know if it was the first single, but Megalomaniac is the first song. And that is, we're going. We're hard. It's banging. It was the first single, actually. They've been kind of transforming into this straight forward rock band. over the course of these albums. And that one is just like, there's not really much of like the old,

funky party incubus, zany, genre jumping incubus. It's just like, here's our big, loud rock song that is clearly about George W. Bush, even though we refuse to admit that it is. Well, according to Brandon Boyd,

it was once again a composite of several people. and primarily inspired by a character in the 1986 film The Three Amigos. Now, I'm not like a scholar of The Three Amigos. I have seen it, obviously, because I'm a red-blooded American. But I could not, for the life of me, you know, distinguish, like, who is it El Guapo? Like, who are we basing this off of? I mean, that's the bad guy, right? Presumably, I mean, I'm guessing that he's not talking about like Steve Martin, but never know.

No, I mean, Alfonso Aro played El Guapo. That was the bad guy. Maybe it was Hefe, the El Guapo's second in command. Who knows? But anyways, that's what he said. German arrived yet. Any presents have been coming for your birthday. German has the only presents I want. Gans, guns on that the name of Elwapo will be hanging on everyone's lips. The music video was directed by Floria Sig Esmondi. Isn't that cool? Yeah. Does have allusions to both Adolf Hitler and Bush. I get it. We were, we were, it was real hating George W. Bush hours in 2004. You know, we had dealt with the invasion of Iraq. That was the first election I ever voted in. Same.

And it was like the beginning of a lifelong political disillusionment where we were like, oh, Al Gore won. No, just kidding. Right. Hanging Chads. Yeah, hanging Chads. He did not win. The machines. Blah, blah, blah. Here's your new president. And we're going to invade your rock. So, yeah, that was, it's a lightly political song. However, there's another thing.

There might be a swipe at Marilyn Manson in it. Ooh. This is from Genius. And oftentimes I've said on this program, the commenters on Genius are deeply mentally ill. And I love them for that. It's undeniable. It's undeniable. But this one does feel, it does feel like it has some grain of salt to it, grain of truth.

So the lyric about, you know, you're no Jesus, you know, all this or whatever, seems to reference a 1997 interview on the Bill Maher show politically incorrect, in which the main focus is on the guest Marilyn Manson and this entertainer by the name of Lakeita Garth. And Lakeita Garth gets heated at the end of the show. And Manson tells the audience, it is admirable to be idealistic, but I want people to think. She yells, you can't save the world because you're not Christ. And I guess at some point, Marilyn Manson jokingly says, well, what about Elvis? I mean, if you look at things from a different point of view, one person could see Christ as being someone a lot like me.

Someone with long hair had a lot of fans, a lot of people that he had 12 disciples. that could have been his posse for all we know. So honestly, this is checking out. Yeah, very prescient of Brandon Boyd to be Peyton on Manson. Yeah, I could see even prior to the bad news bears allegations that came out about Marilynne Manson later on, even in 97, I don't think they were like ideologically aligned in what they were bringing to the world. No, not so much. Yeah. So I thought that was interesting. Also, the music video of Megalomaniac was banned by MTV. They only would show it very late at night because apparently post Janet Jackson Super Bowl controversy, they had a lot of pressure from conservative groups. And there was like six or seven videos that they moved only to late night rotation. But randomly, Megalomaniac was the only one that didn't have any explicit sexual content. It was just anti-

you know, Bush and anti-Hitler and MTV was like, well, we can't be having, we can be having anti-Hitler content on daytime television. That's going to need to be at night. That's some spicy stuff. The people at MTV, I think at that time, probably just didn't want to play the video, to be honest. Like, that was probably their way of being like, oh, sorry, we can't. Really? We've got rules. Mike said, it's ironic that this MTV scrutiny comes from an incident where someone bared their chest in public, while for the first time, our singer has his shirt on for the entire video.

That's quite funny. Yeah. Also, who knew Incubus had so many banned videos? Yeah, one, they were too closely mirrored 9-11. I mean, a lot of ties with George the Bush dynasty here. Perhaps there's something to be open our third eye about here. Yeah, 9-11 and Janet Jackson's, Epulgate to defining moments in...

It's all part of one thing. Millennial coming of age. Yeah. Agoraphobia, this song is about me, you guys. I too want to stay inside for good. It's also a good song. I have to say, I just like that song. It's pretty good.

It's pretty straightforward. It's like we're incubus and we're straightforward now. Yeah, we do rock music. Do you like guitar rock kids? We make guitar. It's no longer we have Primus at home. Do you like drugs? It's like, do you like guitar rocking music?

We make that. The riff on the title track is really sick. It's another mic, you know, Chef's Kiss, real fast. I don't know. He's jamming out on the crow left of the murder. This is the first time. Actually, for years, I couldn't understand the album title because I didn't know that, like, a group of crows was called a murder.

You did not know that. I did not. Incubus introduced me to the concept, except for they didn't because I just did not research the title and was like, that's like weird syntax. Right. And then you sort of, you lived and you learned. Yes, I did. Yeah. What about talk shows on mute? Do you like that song? That was another single. It was okay. I don't know. I feel like him singing about 1984 is like pretty on brand. That was my main takeaway from it. There's a wonderful line on Wikipedia that says, The line, come one, come all into 1984,

does not refer to the year where all the band members were still children, but rather George Orwell's 1949 book 1984, which revolves around a man living in a totalitarian society. Thank you, Wikipedia, for clarifying. Were people talking, were people overusing the, term Orwellian in 2004 like they do now, or maybe our society is just so much more Orwellian now than it was back when a crow left of the murder came out. I'm on.

I couldn't tell you what was going on in 2004. I was busy. Many times I've said this on this podcast, working in the streetwear community, drinking at Max Fish, and listening to Dipset. So I was a little checked out of the cultural conversation, the discourse around Orwellian things or not. I also completely miss this album. I was not on my radar.

This was the last one that was really on my radar. And it came out right before I studied abroad in Spain. That's when your third eye was opened. It was possibly closed by this album. I actually went to see Incubis when I was in Spain. And that was like when I realized how, far we'd grown apart. You guys had diverged.

San Sebastian. And I remember Megalomaniac was really hidden, but I was hearing a bunch of these songs and was like, I don't know. I just am like an indie rock hipster now who only likes albums that got best

new music on pitchfork. Oh, wow. You got too high on yourself. You were like, I don't, I don't fuck with this shit anymore. I don't fuck with this mainstream rock and roll music. Basically. And also we thought.

back. You turn your back on random wood. We thought that we would just go out to bars after the concert until our bus in the morning and it turned out all the bars were closed and we just had to like kind of huddle on a playground and be cold. So bad, bad vibes associated

with the Crow Left of the Murder. You loved Incubis so much that you took a bus to San Sebastian overnight to see them. Yeah, from Pomplona. That's pretty cool. Yeah, but then we broke up. Were you more disillusioned that they weren't like cool hipster that you had become or that they had abandoned the funkiness and genre bending that you had known to love them for?

I think it was probably more the latter. Like they just were so like smoothed out and it just felt like they weren't as dynamic as they used to be like listening back. to this album, it's like they definitely still could make an impact. It wasn't like some of the stuff we're going to discuss later. This is really like the slow death now of

mainstream rock and roll music happens around this time. Like a little earlier than this probably, but it stops being I mean, this is like around the time that alternative rock radio became like borderline unlistenable. Right. And to give some context

like what I was listening to on my iPod, all the time in Spain. The arcade fire. That wasn't quite out yet. It was like, but I mean, that would have been a few months later for sure. But it was like Franz Ferdinand. And I had Dinosaur Jr., you're living all over me. And I was like reading, our band could be your life and learning all about the history of indie rock.

Yeah. So it just, you know, felt like I was moving on. Yeah, I understand. I mean, look, Megalomaniac is a fucking banger. No one can deny that. There's several good songs on here, but I agree with you. Like, by and large, like, it's not an incubus album I would revisit too often. But also, like, that's just not my taste is, like, straightforward rock and roll.

And it is a lot of people's taste. And I think for a lot of people, they loved this album, you know? And it got pretty good reviews. Yeah, I feel like some of that is kind of just like you'll get a positive review, kind of carried over from the good vibes from your, the stuff that they didn't review before, kind of like the, when you get an Oscar for a role,

like a makeup Oscar or whatever. Yeah, sometimes. That's true. But I just do think that like, at this time anyways, like mainstream critics were more amenable to straight rock and roll, you know,

like straight, like sort of like hard hitting rock music than perhaps. perhaps, you know, I mean, this is also the year the Killers Hot Fuss came out. Like, there was some, some streak of like, okay, we still have, you know, let's keep this alive. Let's keep rock music alive. Right. A couple of things stood out to me from this record when I was listening back. The drums on Priceless were like, it's like the St. Anger snare sound or something.

Like, just bizarre. I don't know what's happening there. kind of stands out from the rest of the record. And then, like, at the very end, I feel like, you know, made for TV movie, they've got this kind of Beatlesy arrangement happening and smile lines. It's almost like, you can tell that Coldplay happened. Totally. So it's kind of like you have that whole wave of bands that happened like Coldplay and Travis

and Keene, like, that kind of like. Grace Anatomy Corps. Yeah. Yeah, Graz Anatomy core, kind of like, what if radio had just kept making high and dry over and over again type bands? You know I'm a yellow girly. I will listen to Yellow every day of my life. I'm not hating. I am like a cold play defender, especially Parachutes. Parachutes a great album. But I even like fucking everyday life, like recent, semi-recent double album.

made. I feel like they alternate now between like sort of artsy albums and, uh, yeah, just to show you they still got it. And Craven like crossover attempts, like the one that just had BTS on it. Anyway, we've digressed. Yeah. But you're right. There's, there's the, the influence of that for sure. It's a good album. Look, I'm not saying it's not a good album. It's absolutely a good album. It doesn't for me just have the like specialness and like hookiness of the last two albums, particularly make yourself. But I mean, you can't recreate the same album over and over. That's boring. And like there's a special magic to youth that you can't recreate. What can I say? Yeah, they were getting well beyond their teenage origins at this point.

It's also possible I have so much fondness for those albums because I myself was younger. And also I heard those songs way more often than I have these songs. And that's also just a thing that makes you, you know, soften towards a record. Just a familiarity. Sure, sure. I was stunned when I went back through the discography and like the like kind of the chart history. and like how many radio hits on alt-rock radio. They were continuing.

No, totally. I was like, Megalomaniac? I knew that song 100%. I've, you know, like the back of my hand because I remember hearing it on the radio. So they put on another live album after this,

live in Japan, 2004, another more charitable. Live in Sweden, 2004. More charitable endeavors. Live in Malaysia, 2004, more charitable endeavors. And then it's 2006. And they put out an album called Light,

grenades. Once again, produced by Brendan O'Brien. I'll tell you what Mike Einziger said about this album, and then I'm curious to hear your take on it. He told MTV that this album sounds like 13 different bands playing 13 different songs. Okay. I'm not sure if it was that whiplash-inducing. Yeah. There are, there's varying, wildly varying quality from track to track. Yeah. I like Love Hurts a lot, actually. I was kind of, I didn't have any familiar with this album. So I was really listening to it with fresh years. And there was definitely some catchiness on here. But Love Hurts is the one that stuck out to me. I like Anna Molly, too, get it, anomaly. Yeah. I knew, I think I probably had heard Anna Molly sometime. But yeah, the rest of the record was like kind of new to me. Love hurts.

note was basic ass basic mid-tempo rock song. There's nothing wrong with that. I was non-plussed. I did like, they had kind of like a neutral milk hotel-ish chord change in Earth Tabella part one. Good song. And then Earth to Bella part two, it's like almost kind of like a space oddity type vibe.

Yeah. So, you know, there's something to latch on to. I thought Rogues was pretty explosive. But yeah, on the whole, it's like, this is definitely post-peak. Like, I think probably Megalomaniac is the last incubus song that I'm like, wow, that's a good song. Yeah. I mean, I think I don't think this is their best album, but, you know, there's still some redemptive stuff on here. I could see putting Anna Mali on like an incubus mix or something.

Yeah, totally. again, they got pretty good reviews. Producer Jesse pointed out that in the spin review, you are invited to listen to the album on Napster, if that gives you any idea of what time frame we're dealing with. That doesn't even make sense. I know. This would have been like corporatized Napster, right?

Yeah, no, for sure. They wouldn't have invited you to listen to it if it was like illegal download. This is because we're in that sort of no man's land between illegal downloading and, you know, sanctioned streaming services that having a real moment. So it's really kind of like iTunes vibes and people still buying CDs. It was an interesting time. Then the next album is in 2009.

It's a greatest hits compilation. The only reason I want to mention this is because, well, it does have two new songs on it, which I'm not going to like, Blackheart inertia is honestly a pretty good song. I was not expecting the song that they threw on the greatest hit. It's comp in order to just have something new on there to sell to be that good. But it's pretty good. Yeah, I feel like those, you know, the greatest hits bonus track has kind of gradually declined along with the greatest hits album in general.

Like, I feel like it used to be the bonus track on the greatest hits album. Like the new song on a greatest hits album would often slap. Yeah, totally. But nowadays, it's like... I don't know. But you're right. That's better than your average 2009 greatest hits tack on. Yeah, I really liked it.

The other thing I wanted to just mention was that there's not one single song from science on here. Which is definitely a choice. It's an interesting choice to make. You're doing a greatest hits compilation, two discs, looking back on your career, and you completely exclude science. Two discs? Yeah, monuments and melodies.

So it's pulling from basically four albums and they needed two discs. Well, there's a couple of covers, some like acoustic versions, you know, stuff like that. Do they have their spawn song on there? They do not have the spawn song on there. Okay, well, I'm pretty offended that they didn't have any songs from science. I maintain that science is just as good as, make yourself and Morning View,

if not better. Yeah, I think they, I just don't think they like it. I don't know. I mean, it's the more and more evidence is mounting that they do not care for this album.

This is like, I know they're embarrassed of their, like, teenage selves, but they need to get over it. Who is that? I mean,

right. I mean, I'm certainly embarrassed. I found my, uh, I found my live journal from 2003 where I was keeping track of all the albums I was buying

and concerts I was seeing when I was writing about the unicorns. the other day and it was deeply embarrassing but uh but you know what you have to you have to integrate your shadow in order to it's true and if you know if brandon boyd was really walking the walk and not just talking the talk he would have put some science songs on here and really owned the totality of his self strong agree which is my take they could have at least put new skin on there that's that how could they be embarrassed of new skin it is a uh uh beloved, beloved incubus song.

Yeah. Maybe they've changed since 2009. Maybe they've changed their takes and views. I don't know. I haven't gone to say them play, but perhaps they play science songs now. I don't know. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

I did not realize they had the Grace Tits album. And now I had heard that somehow the song, Black Spark inertia made its way to me one way or another. I didn't realize it was from a Grace Tits album. Anyway. Is this when his, like, solo project comes in? Yeah, 2010. Brandon Boy puts out a solo album called The Wild Trappies.

I'm not going to lie to you. It's good. It's much better than I wasn't expecting. I was not, I had low expectations. And that's not to say, that's just a me problem. That's my shadow. But I was like, well, I don't know. I mean, oftentimes, it's rare, you know, when the man from the band does a little solo project.

And I know people are going to come flood my mentions with examples to the contrary. So I'm not saying it's not possible. Of course, it happens. but I just wasn't, I wasn't prepared to like it so much. I think it's really good. Yeah, he's got, he's got a great voice.

He's got a lot of presence. I feel like he is able to, regardless of the material, I feel like he's going to be able to carry it to a certain extent. So if you get some, it's also nice to just hear him in a slightly different context. Exactly.

Yeah. I like the way he, uh, he really wails away. and I like the little curly cues he puts on the end of his melodies. I neglected to mention that before now. I wanted to get that in there. I feel like the solo album is a good place to drop that in.

Brandon Boyd, good enough singer to elevate the material, regardless of what the material is. And I think I just like it because it's a little bit less hard guitar rock music and a little, I don't know, a little more expansive, a little more spacious, like, just like, a chill or hang, if you will. Right, which, and we've established that Brandon Boyd is a chill hang. I would assume so.

I mean, again, I don't know his heart and mind, but he does feel like a chill hang. Meanwhile, while he was off making art, Mike went ahead to Harvard University. I don't know if you've heard of it, to study music theory and composition, as well as evolutionary biology. Okay. It is interesting that he went to Harvard just like Rivers Cuomo. But I'm just looking here at Wild Trapeze. I didn't realize part of the reason it's so good is because it's produced by Dave Friedman. Dave Friedman.

Correct. I mean, he's not going to get some like Rando. He's going to get the guy that fucking produced this flaming lips. Yeah. That's who he's going to get. It does have a flaming lips-esque vibe to it. Yeah. What else was Fridman doing in 2010?

I wonder. Probably some Flaming Lips album. And the OK Go album, Tame Impala, he mixed it. Thursday's common existence. Hello, Jeff Rickley, if you're listening. I just was reading on SerioGum.com about Thursday's Dave Fridman era. He's done a lot of fucking crazy good shit, but this, his touch on here is appreciated. Yeah.

But yeah, okay, so Mike goes to Harvard, studies science, so he's a real one in the science sense. and then they put out an album in 2011 called If Not Now, Comma, When, Question Mark. I got into it and I was like, I love this first song. Okay, I do. I actually do. This is like real communing with God hours. It is spiritual. It is uplifting.

I was like, this is cool. Then I feel maybe the rest of the album, and this is not a criticism. It's just an observation. It does feel like maybe they like. corrected over from sort of hard rock into like more palatable adult contemporary-esque, like to your point of like the post-cold play era. Like this album is kind of giving that to me. Oh yeah.

And the first song, if not now when, I'm eye to eye with you on there. It's got like kind of I still haven't found what I'm looking for type vibes. It's got a spiritual energy that I actually really loved. And then, yeah. promises, Promises, Track 2, very,

very keen-esque, which I can't get with, I can't get with that. Yeah, this album to me is the Nadir. It's just like, I agree it's over-correcting.

Like, you can make a softer, more mature album without it being this just dull. Like, there's just not much going on here. And I feel like

there's barely even any distorted guitar, Mike Einsiger is really like kind of reeled in here. He's not, they're not setting him loose to, you know, unleash the riffs. It's just all so,

like, I thought they were straightforward before this, but it's like, it's smoothed out kind of to the point where it's not even distinctive anymore. It's just kind of like a blob. Listen, these men are 44 years old.

Okay, can you caught them a break? Like, what are they supposed to do? Rock hard devil horns in the air forever? Like, they're tired. They went to Harvard. Maybe perhaps they wanted to take a different direction. Maybe they didn't want to do any heavy riffs anymore.

I'm telling you, you can go soft without getting boring. And I think that this one was a major whiff. If I, if I would have a generous read on it, it just maybe sounds to me like the thing of, like, they had explored other things solo. and perhaps they didn't, again, I'm fully fan fictioning here, but perhaps they weren't like as enthused to make this album. And maybe that kind of comes through in what we, you know, the yield that we get in the end. And I say that because then they take another, what? Six years. Six years off.

So it's like, you know, whenever that happens, it kind of leads me to believe that like, oh, like maybe that last one you didn't even want to make it. And then you were like, oh, I'm not going to make anything for a while. Yeah, I mean, this might have been the seventh album on their seven album deal. Yes, this one is still Epic Immortal. Also, at some point, Sue Epic to get out of the contracts. They weren't, I don't have the exact details. But yes, this is, they do not put out another album with Epic slash Immortal. The next one comes out on Island Virgin EMI.

So, yeah, maybe they just also needed to fulfill their contract. Who knows? Who knows. They've been in a band together since they were like 15, 16 years old. Maybe they were just like, I don't know, babe, I don't know, baby. How many left at me. Here it is. And that's fine.

Not every episode of this show is good. You know what I mean? We're all doing our best. I'm not even going to get into their reviews. Okay. So, meanwhile, in these, you know, years, they do put out in 2015 an EP called Trustfall Side Aid. Did you pay attention to this when it came out? I remember the name of it.

I remember trust fall side A being a thing. But no, I was like, by then I was like at Stereo gum, what was 2015? I was probably writing about like, I don't know, Beyonce or some shit. Earl sweatshirt. Yeah. Tame Impala. Oh, it was right. I wrote a cover story on Tame Impala in 2015.

So there you go. Jamie X, X, Beach House probably. Okay. So this comes out. It has four songs on it. It's honestly not bad. Then they just kind of, I thought it was an interesting move. This absolutely sent me to the moon, though.

So Brandon Boyd works on another solo project called Sons of the Sea with Brendan O'Brien. He releases a book. And he also rehearsed for the part of Judas in a touring production of Jesus Christ Superstar that was also set to feature, are you sitting down, Johnny Rotten, J.C. Chazey, from NSYNC and Destiny Child's Michelle Williams. The 50 show tour was abruptly canceled a week before its premiere due to poor ticket sales. Poor Brandon Boyd. I am screaming.

That information, what we were denied, what we could have had, a production of Jesus Christ superstar. So if Brandon Boyd is Judas, who do we think was Jesus? Do we think it was J.C. Chazé? Probably, right? That makes sense? Is that true? Do you... I don't know. I didn't get any further info. But I am absolutely, absolutely dead at this ever possibly existing.

And the fact that they had 50 dates scheduled and they rehearsed and went into production enough for a week out, they canceled it. Insane. But anyways, the cancellation of this does lead to basically there being a next incubus album. because freed up Brandon Boyd. Also, I didn't know if you know this, but Mike Isinger, is the one who plays guitar on the Evichi song, Wake Me Up? No, I did not know that. I'm sorry. I conic. That was actually a really important song, I feel like,

in terms of like kind of bringing together the Mumford wave and the EDM wave. It literally changed EDM, I think, like forever. But yeah, that's. That's Mike playing on that. I thought that was a huge bit. So what happens is everything was going crazy. They're doing stuff. They had this long hiatus.

Then their friend, Hans Zimmer. Their friend, Hans Zimmer. I have to read that several times. Hans Zimmer, who you might know, he's won several Academy Awards for Best Original Score for like the Lion King and Dune, 2021 Dune. It's also done The Gladiator, The Last Samurai. the Dark Night Trilogy, kind of a big deal. Anyways, did not know they were buds with Hans Zimmer.

But he's like, yeah, you guys, why aren't you come in my studio, work on some new music? That's where Trust Fall Side Day first came out. They started fucking around in Hans Zimmer's studio. And then they got, that got them playing, you know, playing shows. And then they were like, oh, we'll make an album. That's how we got to eat, because it's the eighth in Cuba's album. It was originally produced by Dave Sardi. but then for reasons that I could not identify,

he was respectfully let go and uncredited and the whole thing was reproduced and mixed by Scrillix. Yeah. They were good friends too. It was not expecting. Yeah, when I was listening to this album, I wasn't like, wow, this sounds like a Scrillix production. Yeah.

I mean, Scrillix is like an incredible musician and has like quite a bit of brain. So I could see... Or I know about his... Pop Punk roots. Was it emo or Metalcore or whatever? Like his band that he used to be in from first to last? For first to last, yeah.

Highland Park's finest. But yeah, this is like... I find that this album is kind of redemptive because they got weird again, which I thought was really cool. Like they definitely sort of abandoned the... We're just going to make some straight adult contemporary rock music. music or whatever and started trying some weird things. Like, like that song, Loneliest, like,

I find that to be a really good song and it's totally, to me, very unexpected. It's, it's like, vibey and like that one I can kind of really hear the Skrillix influence. Yeah, I don't know. I think I find this to be kind of an interesting album. Yeah, I felt like it was a bounce back for sure. It was weird again. It was loud and rocking again. It just like it felt like incubus again. And it's far enough away from their peak that it's like, you know, I'm ready for, I'm ready for incubus again. I'm ready to get back to my roots. Did you hear this in real time? Like when it came out, where you're like, oh, hell, yeah, let's, let me go check out the new incubus album. No, definitely not. No. But now I'm realizing that I should

have sought it out in real time. Yeah, it's good. I really do think it's good. And I, I don't know, I hope they do more weird shit like this, you know, like weird pairings with unexpected artists or like producers and maybe try some different things because to your point, like, Brandon Boyd is such like a dexterous and and just awesome vocalist. And Mike Isinger has like, I'm sure a lot of creativity left in him in terms of guitar riffage. if you will. So I don't know. I mean, the, the recent tours around the iconic albums were pretty popular. So maybe we will see some new music. They put out Trust Fall Side B in 2020, like, right, first, you know, month into the pandemic, which is pretty good. I mean, it had some good songs on it. Like, I liked paper cuts. It's good. I enjoyed it as like the EP, enjoy the EPU. I enjoyed the Trust Fall Side B EP. I think that they could,

I feel like they need to do a whole record again, though. So they've been doing these nostalgia tours. Yeah. They need to, like, get out there and really make a real album again. Listen, let them get the bag. Let them line their pockets. Okay. They need to, everyone needs money.

I wouldn't mind going to see them playing a nostalgia tour. But at this point, I missed the boat. And now I'm going to have to go see a crow left of the murder nostalgia tour. Yeah, they're probably not going to do the science one. I'm so sorry to let you know. It's very sad. Yeah. Well, we reached the end of our incubus journey.

Chris, thanks so much for coming on and, you know, waving the torch. I agree with you. I think incubus is due for a critical revision, a revival. Let's get it started. Let's get it fucking going. Let's figure out what the fuck it's about to quote the brilliant science track redefine. Well, yeah, that's it. Thank you.

Come back next week for a new. episode of Bansplain. If you liked what you heard today, subscribe for more episodes of Bansplain. Our guest today was Chris Deville. You can follow him on Twitter at Chris Deville. This episode was produced by Jesse Miller Gordon and edited by Adrian Bridges with help from Justin Sales. Executive producers for Bansplaine are Gina Del Vacking me, Yossi Solic. Our gorgeous and catchy theme song was composed and performed by Bethany Costantino and Jennifer Clavin and graciously recorded by Carlos de la Garza in Los Angeles, California. Special thanks to our producer emeritus,

producer Dylan, aka Dylan Tupper Rupert, and also Casey Simonson, Michael Hardman, Robert Adler, Leah Edwards, David McDenna, Dana Meyerson,

Jessica Hopper, and Mr. Jack Reacher. Come back every Thursday for a new episode of Bainsplain on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. There's a bird absolutely going the fuck off outside my window right now.

The bird is like, yes, bitch. Say it.