Bandsplain - Interpol with Sarah Lewitinn

Episode Date: October 8, 2026

Sarah Lewitinn (music journalist, restaurateur, and the artist formerly known as Ultragrrrl) joins Yasi to revisit Interpol and the early 2000s New York landscape they emerged from. They discuss their international origins, the dogged Joy Division comparisons, and the pressure to follow up on an instant classic, as well as the steady and surprising arc of their career and output leading up to their latest album, this year’s 'This Mirror Weighs a Ton.' Episode Playlist Listen to the Interpol Playlist here Subscribe on YouTube   CREDITS: Host: Yasi Salek @yasisalek Guests: Sarah Lewitinn @ultragrrrl Producer: Rob Sundermann  Editor: Adrian Bridges Additional Production Supervision: Justin Sayles Theme Song: Bethany Cosentino Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's with this band anyway? I don't get it. Can you please explain? Wait, like, Bansplain? Hello and welcome to Bansplain. I am your host, Yossi Sahlig. This is a show where I invite an expert guest on to help me explain a cult band or iconic artist. Today's episode is about Interpol. My guest today, you guys, the artist formerly known as Ultra Girl, she has 200 couches.

It is Sarah Lewitton. Hello? You know, it's so funny, I actually do have an absurd amount of couches. I do have 200 couches. I should also mention she is now a restaurateur and her restaurant is called Jacaranda and it is in Los Angeles and you should go to it if you are here. It just got one of the 50 best restaurants in the country by New York Times. Okay, that feels like a big deal. No? I don't know a lot about the culinary world, but kind of a big deal. It's kind of a big deal. Okay, I saved this book up, but I have to tell you that when I, like, maybe. God, over 15 years ago, I read Rob Sheffield's book, Love is a Mix tape, and I was, like, obsessed with it. And he talks about you in it. Oh, he does? Actually. Yes. Okay. And since then, you've been a celebrity to me. I've been like, oh, my God, ultra girl. She's just so cool. I want to be

like ultra girl. I never succeeded in doing that, but now it's a big day for me that you're here with me. Whoa, thank you. Yeah. I really should look at that book. It's so good. I love Rob, you know, And it's one of those things where sometimes I just like, I buy a book. I mean to read it. Yeah. And then I don't. It's like fairly emotionally devastating. So maybe save it for like, you know, a time where you can handle that.

Yeah. But like, wow. It really just like also it's like such like pornography of a time that was so much better in my mind where like it's like the 90s and he's in college and like you're seeing bands. Just like, oh, what an incredible. And he writes with like such joy and love and like, oh, he's. his, like, heart goes on the page. It's so beautiful. Yeah, it's incredible.

Anyways. Okay, we're here to talk about interval. Before we get started, you're wearing your interval. O.D. merch. Yes. I think I got this in, like, 2001 or something. Maybe 2000. I'm not quite sure.

But I can't believe it's in such good shape. Yeah. If I can be honest with you. The question is, why are you so thrilled to talk about interval? I mean, okay. So I spent probably around 20-something years, 25 years working in the music industry. And Interpol's like the – basically like the only band that I still listen to consistently that like puts me in a space where I'm like, I feel good.

I feel good. Like I'm like all I want to listen to is typically our love to admire. But the first time I heard Interpol was in, I think, two things. And I was working in the same office space as a record label and they used to play demos all the time and They stuck in one demo CD and within like 30 15 to 30 seconds. I was like who the fuck is this? This is my new favorite band. Yeah and from then on it's just like that's it You know it was I was hooked. I also feel like correct me if I'm wrong, but like much like Jenny Loskew, I feel like you not only were like a fan, but you had a hand in shepherding some of this music into, you know, people's ears and hearts and minds because you were writing for spin, right? And you had your blog and people paid attention to

like the stuff that you were interested in. Yeah. So I had a lot of relationships in the music industry in various facets. So not just at spin, but at VH1 and different, you know, different outlets. just basically any every facet of the music industry I was it I had a friend in and I was constantly talking about right I was constantly talking about Interpol like to the point where people thought I was like either getting paid for this or something yeah and like you know it's when I was at Spin magazine I was I started there when I was a teenager and so 2000 I was 20 and I was constantly like saying you have to listen to this band you have to listen to this band like begging begging editors begging anyone to come with me to shows yeah and I would buy um basically their

EP I'd buy like 10 copies at a time so I could give it away to people and uh and so I kept on pushing it and you know at that time everyone's like oh they just sound like joy division right and classic yeah that old chestnut like I mean it's like Joy Division's not coming out with new songs. So it's like, why not? Like, it's fine. It's so true. And then those people that were just like, no, no, no, no.

This is bullshit. Like, I'm not like, Ultra Girl cut it out. Yeah. Finally, like, started to come around. And they're like, oh. That feels good, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah.

Always feels good. But, I mean, like, the first show that I went to of theirs, and probably for quite a while, it would be, like, me, this like German kid named Uli makes so much sense that a German person would be into their early music who knew Carlos D from like the party scene the girlfriends and that's it you know and like one of my friends

and so it was like I was a very very early fan and like I would always stand up front and just like I'd like to think that if you were in Interpol and you just saw this tiny little person just like beaming up that like hopefully it helped you like create a moment. Yeah, bolstered your confidence to keep going. You're like, okay, there might only be five people here and a German guy named Uli, but we're going to make it. We got this guys. We got this. And like I, the first time that I saw them play live was like my, so I saw like Carlos D in action playing his bass. that next day I went out and I bought a base.

Wow. I wanted to be him so bad. So bad. Yeah. We're going to get into the Carlos D. Okay. Okay. The all of it all.

I want to read before I just get into my bullshit where I start with people's birthdays. I wanted to read a quote from Carlos D that I really liked. It was in pitchfork in 2012. He said, we were always surprised about how much the New York label was attached to us because we never saw ourselves as New York style band. We saw ourselves as an inspired band. I thought that was interesting because when, I mean, this is obviously Indieslays Month and I know I'm going to go to jail for that with certain sex of people who are like, that's not real. And I'm like, let's just what's real, what's not real, you know, like let's surrender to the fantasy of Indy Slays. But I kind of like,

I'm like, oh, that's very interesting because when I listen to all that music and it's also different, But I do kind of feel like Interpol is like almost like of another world. You know, they do feel, and I don't want to say like, oh, because they sound like Joy Division, but they do feel, especially those early albums feel like of another time even. Like they could have, like if you were like this album came out in 1986, I'd be like, yes, it did. Right. Do you know, if I didn't know anything about them?

And I think that's kind of interesting and cool. And it makes a lot of sense given like what we'll get into with like what Carlos D. was into musically and lifestyle-wise, but also what everyone was into. But I just thought that was an interesting sort of like biographical point to place them while we're talking about the various points of New York music of the early 2000s. I mean, of course, Carlos would try to claim that they're not a New York band. Totally. Yeah. Okay. Technically I know that we should start with Daniel, but I'm going to start with Paul. Okay. But let's just know, everyone know that I know that it's Daniel. That's the nucleus that started this man.

And we'll get into that. But, okay, Paul Julian Banks was born May 3rd, 1978, a Torres like myself, in Clacton-on-Sea, which is a coastal town in Essex, England. His father had a corporate role in an automobile manufacturer, and there was a lot of relocation. I feel very kindred spirits with this, because when I was 15, my family moved to Singapore, and there is, like, a certain personality type that is bred when you have to leave, like, your homeland and everything you and just like start over in like an American school or whatever. And it sounds like Paul had to do that several times. When he was three, the family left England for the U.S.

They lived in Michigan. At 10 years old, he got his first compact disc. Living colors vivid. So that was the first idea I ever bought. I had to have it. I'll listen to that record today and get into that shit. Cult of personality has a great video. I can picture the spandex and the bass player had pretty cool dreads too.

The riffs were sick and the vocal harmonies are dope as fuck. Paul Banks loves hip-hop music. I mean, he's such a poet, and, like, I love that that is the quote that he decides, like, dope as fuck is like, you know what? Reading his interview quotes next to his lyrics. Yeah, totally. Because it's just like, yeah, inside you, there's two wolves, and one of them really fucking loves living color and thinks it's dope as fuck. Unfortunately, one of them also loves red hot chili peppers, which is so cringe. We're so connected.

I have a red hot chili pepper's tattoo on my ankle as we speak. Oh, my God. I'm sorry for calling it. cringe, but like... Honey, nothing could... I'm bulletproof at this point. I also love Dave Matthews band. You can't touch me.

I'm untouchable. So they have one good song that I'm like into. But anyway, sorry. We'll get into it because he understands the poetic soul of John Farshanti, much like I do. But I think if you like, well, I don't want to generalize, but I can, I'm seeing a trend here. If you like living color and you like the next piece of information I have is that the first piece of music that Paul Banks memorized was the Humpty Dance by Desmond.

Digital Underground, you know, so let me introduce myself. My name is Humpty. This is like, pronounced with an umpti. I know that, I knew that he likes hip hop. Like, I know that. But like, this is, you're giving me completely new information right now. I love this piece of, because I was like, I also had the Humpty Dance memorized. If you're of a certain age, which I think we're all kind of around the same age, that video was so mesmerizing. And it was on MTV all the time. And you were like, who is this man? What is this knows? Like, what's going on? And you chup like back and forth. You know, I can still sing it like with my eyes.

Like I think if I ever get dementia, that's going to be like a song that I can still sing. Totally. So just let me introduce myself. My name is Humpty. Pronounce with a umpty. Yo ladies. Oh, how I like to fuck thee. Okay.

So after he's taken in these beautiful pieces of culture, Paul Banks' family moves to Spain. He's like 11 years old. It goes to the American School of Madrid. starts his first musical group here. It is a hip hop group. He was being bullied in New Jersey. And he said, so I was like, cool, let's get the fuck out of here. Spain was a marvelous place to live. I initially had some culture shock when I saw guys wearing orange pants. Like, what the fuck is that man? They dress amazing, but I didn't get it back then. I had one really good friend in Madrid that I started a hip hop project with in seventh grade. That was when I was listening to a lot of NWA in Too Short. We had hip hop names that I won't even tell you, but they focused on sex and

gross stuff. My buddy would rap and I was making different hip hop tracks on a cassette tape. I'm dead. It's so amazing. I'm so dead. It really again, not to be like Paul, I understand you. Yeah. But in the seventh grade we did a talent show and

me and my girlfriends dance to Cubie's finest Uchiwalawala which is such an aggressively raunchy and incorrect song for a seventh grader to dance to. And I'm like, but we were just that's what we liked. Yeah. That's what we like. I mean, hip hop was such a big thing back then. Totally. Like so big. Yeah. So, just so you guys know, when you come back around and be like,

Paul Banks isn't a real one when it comes to hip hop, he was in the seventh grade, writing raps and making beats. I mean. In Madrid. In Madrid. I mean, that's... At the American school in Madrid. That's something else. I can't believe I didn't know any of this. You know, like, I, I love the band, but like, I think the biographical stuff, I just, like, skipped over. Well, it's because you don't have my mental illness, which requires, you know, the utmost research and finding this kind of stuff. In Spain, when he was not busy writing sick bars, he learned about Bob Dylan and picked up a guitar. He had a teacher in Spain that, like, taught him and his friends about Bob Dylan. And then he also discovered the song Dream On by Aerosmith, Stone Cold Classic, absolute firebanger, and loved it so much.

and he learned to play some of it and then decided not to learn any more of guitar and was like, that's enough. I know how to play guitar now. Which is I think is great. I mean, he's not busting up big solos. Yeah, it's fine. Yeah.

In high school, he discovered Nirvana, who amongst us? I mean, that wasn't in high school because I was a little bit younger. And then he was like, I want to be a rock star. He also went to a Nirvana concert in 1984 in Spain. Good for him. Front row at some level. like bull fighting arena and said that he came prepared with a cigarette in a paper airplane

with a note for Kurt Cobain. Oh my God. And he flew it onto the stage. I love this. But tragically, he watched at the end of the show as a roadie came and picked it up. And he was like, I know that's not going. It's not going to get to Kirk Cobain. Oh, my gosh.

The heartbreak. But I love this story. What a sweet little story. Oh, my God. Well, how cute. I know. Seriously. How thoughtful.

I know. The advance planning. Okay. And then he also said in an interview that he got really into Leonard Cohen and Sugar, and I think that was also in high school. Very interesting two things, because, like, Leonard Cohen, I obviously can really see it. That's a poet. You know, he loved the lyrics, the tone of the voice.

And then Sugar, I love Sugar, which is Bob Mold from Husker Do's band after Husker Do. And he said he loved every single thing. on that sugar record besides if I can't change your mind, which is a banger and I don't really understand why you wouldn't like that song, and thought it was a masterpiece. And I guess I can, in that sense, I'm like, oh, because Intraple is quite catchy. Yeah. You know, like one thing you can say about, especially like the big Interpol songs,

is they're fucking earwormy and catchy as hell. And I think that's like a sugar's power pop, you know? So I'm like, okay, I can see the sort of the connection, the machinations. Yeah. Bands that Paul Banks did not get into in his youth. Joy Division and the Chameleons. I mean, never heard them. He did not know her, you know? Yeah. But I just want to point that up. Then transferred to Mexico where he finished high school at the American School Foundation in Mexico City. And also, I believe his mother sort of pushed him into doing musical theater there. Oh my God. I'm dying. Just regular theater.

I don't know a lot about theater. Is South Pacific a musical or a regular theater? I think it's a musical. Okay, well, then musical theater. Oh, my God. He was the co-lead in South. Stop. Stop. This is too much.

I'm obsessed. This is amazing. He said he was very bad at it, but that his mother thought it would be good for public speaking and sort of having to be on stage. Because he was starting to feel kind of depressed and introverted. And he said it was the first time where I realized that I liked singing, but I was pretty self-conscious on stage. You're welcome. I wish there was footage somewhere. somewhere that we can unearth.

Like, the words are just not coming out properly. There's an alternate history in which Paul Banks falls in love with musical theater and never, there's no interval because he's a star of Broadway. I, I, I, the bad boy of Broadway. Oh, my gosh. But that didn't happen. So goes off to college at NYU, studying English, and then does a summer program in Paris, which is where he first meets Daniel Alexander Kessler,

who was born September 25th, 1974 in London. He is American, but he was born in London. This became very confusing to me because obviously I'm very familiar with the work of his brother due to my job, Ted Kessler, who is a longtime music journalist who was an editor at the NME, who I thought was extremely English, but apparently is American.

I mean, it sounds like these guys, are worldly. Exactly. Citizens of the world. There is no home country. Totally. So they're stateless. It makes sense back to the earlier we're not a New York band, you know?

Sure. Daniel grew up partially in France. He wanted a guitar ever since he heard the album, The Unforgettable Fire by U2. That's the one with pride in the name of love and bad on it, in case you were wondering which U2 album is a really good album. He has two older brothers. One, I mentioned Ted. I actually don't remember the name of the other one.

He said about Ted. He had a very strong sense of self at an entirely too young age. As kids, the three of us shared a bedroom and had bunk beds. Ted's wall was covered with magazine cutouts of the jam in the way that people might have religious artifacts. I got the idea that music is important.

It's a savior. Oh. I know. So he's also at NYU, and then they're in Paris, and he says about meeting Paul. He was just out of high school, but he carried himself

with a certain sense of confidence and maturity for someone his age. took himself seriously and other people took him seriously. He was never awkward or shy. We talked about music for a minute and I could tell aesthetically we had a lot in common. I knew he played guitar and sing. And Paul said about Daniel, I thought Daniel had a neat sense of style and I thought he was pretty together. He was just a nice guy where I was, I was kind of wild in my way. I was smoking weed with the teacher. You know what I mean? I didn't smooch the teacher, you know? It was a guy teacher. That's for me. Me in the bathroom.

the great Indieslie's Tome by Lizzie Goodman. This is one thing I did want to ask Paul, but I was like, is this too personal of a question? So apparently Paul was busking during his time in Paris outside of the central pompadieu. I mean, that tracks. But I'm dying to know what are we playing. I mean, he's probably, dream on by Aerosmith, obviously. I mean, he's probably playing some Leonard Cohen. Sure. You know, Bob Dylan. And maybe a red hot chili peppers. Kind of hard to bust. Kind of hard to play on the acoustic guitar by yourself. Maybe a little under the bridge. I would, I would, that's what I was thinking.

It would probably be under the bridge. I'm going to guess like, he probably had a repertoire of like four songs. Totally. You know? Paul, if you don't get in touch and correct us, I'm just going to go around and say for the record that you were playing under the bridge. And or the Humpty Dance. Or the Humpty Dance. You know, that'd be kind of sick.

Oh, my God. A reworked or reimagined Humpty Dance on the acoustic guitar. That would be sick. Okay. Hopefully. It's with an umpty. Yeah. And Daniel was, like, dying to play music.

Like, he was like, I want to be in a band. I'm looking for people to play music with. Now, this is where I get a little murky on the exact order of things, but it doesn't really matter. They get back to New York. Daniel has a guy in his dorm named Greg Drudy. That was a, yes, he was the drummer, the first drummer. And they kind of were like, okay, we have a band.

We have two people, a guitarist and a drummer. He also had a philosophy class with Carlos Andres Dangler, born April 23rd, 1974 in Queens, to a Colombian mother and a German father. Hence Uli, the connection with Uli at the first shows. They lived in Queens until he was in his early teens, and then they went to Lawrenceville, New Jersey. And Carlos said, I finished high school in Lawrenceville. I was a metalhead back then into all the typical shit,

drinking Budweiser by the railroad tracks and listening to Metallica, just going crazy on that level. But I came to NYU determined to be a scholar. I was very focused on my major, which was philosophy. If you had stopped me on the street when I arrived at NYU in 1996 and asked me, hey, man, what's your plan? I would have been like, well, I'm going to graduate from NYU with honors, then find a grad school for continental philosophy.

I want to read books for the rest of my life and be really fucking smart. And no one's going to be able to tell me what to think or say. I'm going to be unable to unravel or I'm going to be able to unravel whatever they think they know. Incredible plan. It's like the level of pretentiousness. is something to be admired. It feels really German to me. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, that's like genetic maybe. Yeah, it's like, because he's not like, I know he's German, but like he's not like, he didn't, unlike the other guys, he didn't spend time in Germany, you know? But it's in the blood. Yeah, yeah. It's in the DNA. Yeah. This does make me feel a little better because I couldn't shake the idea the whole time I was

doing all the species. There's that the interpolar like the literate strokes. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? That's probably fairly accurate. And, like, they're the ones that went to college. Yeah. You know?

Totally. And probably, obviously, like, the strokes, like, the members of the strokes probably traveled all over the world and, like, did all that stuff. Worldly, yeah. Yes. In a way, you know, like traveling with your mom and dad. Whereas, like, with the Interpol guys, it's like, good morning. You are now living in Spain.

Totally. And it's a different experience. And it does make them more of, like, in every. everything. But yeah, they are kind of, I never really thought of them as like the literate strokes, but that's really accurate. There's so many references to like philosophy and like Nietzsche and literature when you read interviews with them and stuff. And you're like, it was absolute love and respect in my heart. I never heard Julian Casablanca's reference a book one time when I was reading all these interviews. Yeah. Can you read? Unclear. Yeah, clear. We'll find out. Okay. So Daniel and

Carlos had this class together. And Daniel was like, oh, I like Carlos' outfit. Like, he kind of dresses like me. He's got like a button-down shirt. He looks polished. They were both wearing cool Doc Martins, the old-school ones. So he used that as a point to strike up a conversation. Don't we always? Yeah. I mean, I've never maybe Doc Martin connected with someone, but I love that. I love that, like, especially with men, it's like, okay, we have to have something to, like, say. Yeah. And, like, that fashion is the thing. Because, like, girls get such a rap for being like, oh, like your top. Yeah, exactly. But like in this case, they connected because Daniel saw Doc Martin, you know, like, ooh, I like your shoes. Well, it's, it's the

classic thing of like, especially within, I think within music, it's like clothing is just as important and it's just as much of a signifier of like what you're into. Especially back then. Totally. Because also, like, we couldn't afford more than one genre of music. 100%. You know, so it's like whatever was on the radio, whatever it was on MTV, and then, like, whatever you were able to, like, afford or borrow or whatever it was. So then you really had to, like, stay in that lane. You also just didn't, like, it was very tribal. Like, you kind of, like, picked your thing, and that was your, that was who you were. Yeah. And, like, I remember, like, back in, like, middle school, like, if you, like, were, like, a rock or whatever, like, grunt, you know,

and you expressed any interest in like electronic music. Like people would call you a raver. Like it was a pejorative. Yeah. You know? Like it was really like siloed. I got picked on for liking hip hop at like a like dancing and singing to a hip hop song at Bar Mitzvah by I want to name this kid so bad. Name him, boom.

Fucking. Name and shame. Ross Fieldston. Ross Fieldston. And it's on site, bitch. I punched him in the face at a bar mitzvah because he was making. fun of me. Good.

Yeah. I bet he learned his lesson? Nope. No, okay. Nope. Well, I hope bad things have happened to him, like stub toes and lots of paper cuts. He has daughters, and so I'm glad that he has to live with that. Right.

That he knows that they will experience similar things, sadly. So Carlos is like, okay, let's do it. Let's play music. He said that they all hit it off right away in terms of songwriting. And they wrote PDA together. So that was already kind of written. Paul, for his part, said he had also noticed Carlos around school, but more not due to the Doc Martins, due to his hyper-unusual style in the sense that he would wear like black

velvet floor-length skirts and like a giant crucifix. And according to Paul, quote, walking around like super regal, you know, fingers up to the world vibe. He didn't give a fuck. And Paul Banks liked this. He said, okay. And so Daniel approaches Paul. Would you like to join my band?

All said, he walked him to me outside my dorm with his buddy, who was the highest person I've ever seen in my life. I've never seen anybody as stoned it. His friend was that day. That was, again, for me, a good sign. Like, if Daniel's rolling with dudes that are that fucking high, then that's another little window in his personality. That's amazing. He was like, hell yeah, brother. I appreciate, like, honestly, Paul's, like, like, desire to.

to be around chaos is admirable. Totally. Well, you know, it paid off. Yeah, sure did. Those instincts paid off. So Paul's like, okay, I'll come to rehearsal. Thank God Daniel brought his stoned-ass friend that day. What did Daniel come by himself?

You've been like, I don't know, man. Yeah. I don't know if I'm down. And then so Paul gets there and he's like, he's Carlos, and he's like, hell yeah, I like that guy too. Actually, his actual quote was, that dude in the shirt is fucking nuts. and I like that about him.

So when I walked into that first rehearsal and there's that guy that walks around in the Monks outfit, I was like, this is yet another good sign. It was all falling into place, God's plan. But I guess at first, and you might know more about this, but like Paul wasn't initially the singer to begin with. So I actually didn't know that.

Okay. But I do know that Daniel was singing more on some of the songs than he is now. Like there's parts of, oh, God. that was kind of a demo that was like Yeah, that's what I'm talking about I'm trying to remember this song but like Daniel has a rap in it

Oh no Yeah and like you can't But it's actually really good Okay I think it's in participate Sorry Precipitate Yeah the one that came out after

In 2001 Yeah that might be it yeah Song 7 A Time to be so small Maybe it's one of those Well I guess like They just were kind of like okay, we're going to add this guy and he plays guitar, but he kind of was like, oh, I'm just

going to be like a second guitar player and like a vocalist, but not like the songwriter, you know, lead singer or whatever. And then Daniel said there was a moment where Paul was playing and the song sounded good, but he wasn't singing. We were having a hard time figuring out how it's all going to fit together. Then he and I had a conversation and he was probably going to leave the band. But I was like, wait a minute, I really want to play with Paul. What if he just sang? So he allowed Paul just sing. Paul said, I'd been writing poetry for years, so I sort of had the nature of the words. But I felt no one else could sing my lyrics.

So I was like, I'll take a crack at it. Paul was writing raps for years. Yeah. Really meant. Seriously. And maybe I'll be able to drop in bars. Exactly. And Daniel said, Carlos, myself, and Paul went into the smallest room like a closet at Funkadelic Studios and played a very slow song.

And then Paul just started singing. Me and Carlos just looked at each other like, holy shit, man. So that was like the, ah, moment. They were like, holy fuck, he sounds like a band that we. would have listened to. Totally. Yeah. I guess like it must have been so, because Paul does have such a distinctive singing voice. I can imagine like kind of hearing it for the first time in like a lead way. You were like, oh shit. Yeah. Now we're cooking with gas. Yeah. Also, this is just so random, but I had to mention it. Did you know Paul Banks was briefly an editorial assistant at interview

magazine? Yes, I did know that. Obsessed with us. Yes. He said he was a horrible interviewer and he mostly did fact checking. Sure. Sure. Like, I do recall him talking about how he didn't move up fast enough and got frustrated and left. But like him not being a good interviewer, I mean, sometimes you just need to be interviewed, you know. Yeah, sometimes you're the star man. Yeah. And you know, you know that you're on the wrong side of the microphone.

So that was probably like stuck in his brain somewhere. again I'm sure like he would have had a beautiful career in journalism but I'm glad I didn't No I mean I'm glad I'm like he went down the right path I mean he probably would have ended up as like a photographer or something like that you know I think he is a photographer He takes pictures of every building sure comes in contact with which is great great I love that we love that for us um all right in 1998 we'll welcome together. That song PDA that they had already written before Paul came in was written. They wrote another song called Roland and another one called Get the Girls Going. This was their first

demo, three songs. And they use it mostly, I think Daniel was the hustler. Yes. Trying to get shows. Apparently their first show was at a place called Baby Jupiter. Do you remember this place? Yes. Yeah. Where was this? God, if I could remember that it'd be really good, but I do remember the name. I think it's in the Lower East Side. Yeah, yeah. I don't think it exists anymore. No, definitely doesn't.

If I'm not mistaken, it was like an orchard or something. That sounds right, yeah. Oh, I think that's what Orchard Bar became maybe. From Baby Jupiter. Yeah. Probably no one was there, but maybe we'll leave. I like that I think, I mean, you saw them pretty early on too. Extremely early, yeah.

But from what I can glean, their look was there from the beginning. Yes. Yes. So Carlos D had an armband, a flat iron, and a dream. Yes. And he was taking it to the stage. Yeah.

I mean, like, as a Jewish girl, looking up there and seeing... The Hitler youth haircut and the holster. I'm like, why is this hot? It's so hot. Yeah. It's like... Why do I want this? It's absolutely years of therapy to dust that off.

But yeah, they were like very... like put together. They had suits or button downs. Paul said, we took the look seriously, and I think every band should. To phone in any facet of the artistic idea is contrary to my overall philosophy. I think it's also really interesting because by 1998, like, I can imagine there's such a fatigue of like the slack or grunge thing, right? Because that's like really gone on for a while and iterated into other things, right? Like, by the mid-90s, you had, like, alternative rock, like, the weasers and, like, other things. But it was still similar, like, schleppy thrift store clothes.

Yeah. And then you also have rap rock, which is also not exactly giving tailored, you know, excellence. Yeah. So I like this idea that this was, like, kind of a response, you know, to, like, okay, that's enough of that. But also, during that time in New York, there were like a lot of goth clubs. Yeah. You know? And so that's probably how Carlos met Uli the German. But like there was like a scene of like the goth clubs, the mod parties, like the Morrissey parties.

And like so there was sort of this. Like a revivalism of this. Yeah. Like a counterculture to whatever, you know, grungy thing was happening. Totally. And I think New York just has a little bit more style. A little polish. Even now, like, you go back there and it's like, okay, people know how to dress.

Yeah. Which, like, I've completely lost, you know? You wear leggings here. People just wear leggings. Oh, my God. It's absurd. People come to my restaurant and sweatpants. It's crazy.

L.A. is one of the craziest places because it's literally impossible to be underdress and actually kind of impossible to be overdressed. Yeah. No matter what you wear, you can go anywhere. Yeah. In New York, you just look like you always dress for the occasion. Right. You know, so I think in that way, like, Interpol is a New York band because they are dressing for the occasion upon, like, every opportunity.

Carlos always had this, like, very distinct style that was very much part of, like, the goth scene for sure. For sure. You know, and then, like, part of the Morrissey Smith scene and all that stuff. And I can see also, like, Daniel's already drawn to him because of the clothes. They all seemingly had like a similar sensibility in that sense. So, you know, it's going to, there's a cohesive front. But also I think about like Albert Hammond Jr. also wearing suits. Yeah.

Around this time. Like it's, you know, there's a thing in the air. If I may be honest though, like Albert's suits were look like. More rumpled. Yes. Yes. Whereas like. More like 70s rumpled than like like austere, austere goth club.

Yeah. Totally. Like Interpol had a tailor. You know? They had like a specific tailor, right? Like that was like their tailor. In the Lower East Side. Yeah.

Yeah. And then they look like they had like an account at a dry cleaner, you know? Like, just put it on my tub. Yeah. Yeah, they weren't a rumpled band. It wasn't like a, there weren't slackers. No. Yeah.

Not at all. Okay. So they played several of these shows, including Baby Jupiter with no name. An early name they tried out was Los Armas, which means weapons. Do they have cuddleworthy back then, too? Yes, cuttleworthy, which is that could not have, we could not go forward with that. No. Not you can't have a Hitler youth haircut and then call your band Cuddleworthy.

This is crazy. They did play like a secret show at Luna Lounge under the name Cuddleworthy. Yeah, for real heads. Like, what is it? Sure. I really liked this, though, apparently. So apparently they landed on the name Interpol, partly because when Paul this is like a way longer thing

one of Paul's like high school friends wrote the 33 and a third about turn on the bright lights no antics it's about antics but he goes off about this whole thing about how there was this girl who I wish I had written it down because she was actually quoting

a film but she kept saying Interpol Interpol Paul Paul Paul Paul The interpol, yeah. Pol, you know. And the interpol was the Spanish translation of the English that was in this film.

I'm very sorry you guys, I didn't write this down. But anyway, she was like laughed so hard because it was pole. And that's how they say it in Spanish. And so anyways, that was part of the reason it came about. And then Daniel was like, oh, but this is like, it's perfect. Like, it is a good name. It is a great name. This person that I know had a tattoo, like an Interpol tattoo.

and had to get it covered up because people thought she loved the international police. Sure, yeah, yeah. Tough beat. Yeah. I believe I read some interview where, like, Daniel said they used to get emails that were actually directed towards the government agency. That's amazing. My sister's been kidnapped. And they were like, okay, yeah, so we're a band that plays music in the Lower East Side.

We can't help you with locating your sister. But thank you for writing Interpoln-N-Y at Yahoo.com. Yeah, exactly. We need to do a bit more research when your sister is kidnapped. All right. So then it's 1999. Again, Daniel is a girl boss, babe. He is hustling this tape around. He is making calls. He is, I suppose, sending emails. It's 1989. They get some shows at Bowery Ballroom. They opened for Ash, the British band. Also for Magway. Very early on. Did you go to that show? I think so, yeah. So cool. If I'm not mistaken, Daniel was working for a record label at the time.

So, like, they opened for the Delgado's at Knitting Factory that I went to. I can't remember what the name of the label was. It wasn't the Scottish one that they ended up. Domino, maybe. Oh, Domino, okay. Yeah. It could have been Domino. It could have been something.

I do remember that Daniel, like, messaged me one day when I was working at Spin Magazine, or interning at Spinn magazine. I can't remember what it was. And he's like, I've got this Scottish band here. Will you come and, like, help me entertain them? Was it Montguer? No, it was Franz Ferdinand. Oh, my God.

Yeah. So cool. Yeah. So that's the only reason why I know that, like, he was a hustler on, like, the music industry side. Yeah. Because he had jobs in the industry and stuff like that. I mean, I think this band is amazing, but I do wonder, like, how far. they would have gotten without Daniel, like, breaking his back, you know?

I mean, it would have been harder. Or maybe taken longer. Yeah. Paul said about their early shows. He said, I had to muster something inside me to say, okay, let's do this in front of people. One of my favorite memories of those early days was playing in front of 35 people and looking over at Carlos in his whole get-up, just rocking out like it was a fucking

arena filmed with screaming people. I thought, that's odd. The bravado was out of sync with my personality and the amount of people in the room. Back then I looked over and was like, what are you doing, man? But as time went on, I admired his commitment. This guy had his performance shit down from the first day. I realized that dude's a star. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean like... You said you went and bought a base the next day. Yeah. So I saw them at Brownies and I just like stood there watching them, like as if I was watching them at an arena. You know, like maybe it was Carlos. I don't know. Like I was just entranced.

And I felt like an out-of-body experience. where I saw their future. I think that's such an incredible quality for a band to have to, like, bring it to that level, even though there's eight people there. Yeah. You know? Like, it's like, okay, whatever. I'm playing the songs that I'm playing, you know?

You're here. I'm going to give you the experience you were on the list for. Right. That Uli brought you here. Uli is handing out flyers. Actually, Carlos did say that he handed out a bunch of flyers at the goth clubs early on. Yeah. And at Motherfucker and all that.

Yeah, he was a hustler as well. Yeah. But. In a different arena, like straight to the people. Yeah. Yeah. Funnily enough, Daniel did send the demo to Ted Kessler, who at this time was an editor at the enemy. And he not only did not help them.

At all. Like, literally refused to put it on. And it was like, I'm embarrassed by this. He later wrote an op-ed where he was like, I was very, I thought that people were going to laugh at them and they were going to amount to nothing. And it was extremely, extremely wrong. And he actually didn't say anything about it until the second EP and another enemy editor brought it in. So you can't say they're NEPO. Yeah.

You can't say they're British music journalism NEPO. I know. It's kind of crazy. Like I feel like people don't really understand how much pushback family members give to their other family members. You know, it's like, ugh, I don't want to be associated with you. My little brother and his dumb little band. Oh, no way. Now he's a rock guitar.

Also, definitely sent it to Matador. Matador was like, no, thank you. We're all stocked up here. And Daniel was like, okay. And then he, according to Gerard Cosloi, one of the co-founders of Matador, hounded him via email on and off for over 18 months. Yeah. And he said, unlike a lot of folks, we turned down, he managed not to take it super personally. We established a report. It's actually an amazing, like, tail. Like, it's very funny because I'm reading Ari Emanuel's book right now. I can connect this. And a lot of his book is about not taking no for any. Like, I think so many people are so afraid of rejection and so afraid of conflict that that's it. Like, A, they won't even try in the first place. Like, I always say this to, like, whenever, like, a college student or someone reaches out to me is like, what do I do? And I'm like, number one, you just do it.

Yeah. Like you put it out into the world. That's like more than half the battle because most people just won't even do it. And then, yeah, when people say no, like what an incredible skill to not take it personally and just keep asking. When I was in college, I wanted to work at the record store, morning glory music. And I went, I marched over there with my resume and a mixtape that I had made. And I said, hello, I'd like to work here. And the man was like, thank you. We don't have a job. And I said, okay. And I came back. That's adorable. Every single day. No kidding. Hi, do you have a job yet? Is there a job open? And he was like, no. I think it took like two weeks. And then by like the 14th or 15th the day, he was like, oh my God, fine, okay.

You can fucking work here. She shows up. And I was like, she's ready to work. I don't know what the hell is happening. I was like, thank you. Amazing. Yeah. Amazing.

I did not let that man tell me know. I did the same thing when I was 17 or 18 and I got my internship at Spin. I just kept on messaging Mark Spitz and being like, I want to intern for you. I want to intern for you. And finally he was like, oh my fucking God, like, okay, come in for an interview. You can annoy people into submission. Yeah. And the Aussie Salick story.

You like stay on top of mind. Totally. And also I think, look, of course, like it doesn't work on all personalities. But I think it shows a bit of like gumption and dedication and like thick skinned. Yeah. And I was going to work at that fucking record store. And it was the best job in my life. And I'm glad I harassed that man every day for 15 to 17 years.

How long did you work there for? Maybe like two years. Okay. So you did a good time. Yeah, it was great. I was there when I was working there when all this music came out. So, like, that's how I kind of knew about it, you know. Okay. It's 2000.

Okay. The Millennium, Y2K. It's all happened. Nothing ended. Greg Drudy leaves the band. And he is replaced by Samuel Joseph Fogarino, born August 9th, 1968 in Philadelphia. He's a bit older than everybody else. He grew up in West Philly, began to play the drums the age of 13.

In the early 90s, Sam played in the South Florida band The Holy Terror's and was part of the same music scene that produced Marilyn Manson, Jackoff, Jill, Saigon Kick, and the Mavericks. And Marilyn Manson actually asked Sam Fogreino to join his band at one point. Yeah, early on before he was big. And Sam was like, no, thank you. Thank God. And then he left South Florida, moved to Gainesville, played in a band called Gus, and then finally settled down in New York in 1997.

I say all this to be like, Sam was, had been playing in bands for 10 years, whereas these guys have been in a band for a year and a half at this point. He met Daniel Kessler in 1998. I think Sam worked at Beacon's Closet. Real Ones will remember the Beacons Clause in Williamsburg. Yeah, I bought a lot of clothes there. Did you? Oh, yeah. I mean, I lived in Williamsburg.

It was down the street. everything was like really cheap back then you know also then you would take your bag of clothes and sell it to them and just get cr-it it was like a revolving door of random terrible hipster clothes that you would wear but anyways i guess sam worked there and he and daniel was selling vinyl to him so they struck up a friendship and he's in the band and paul said when i say i had a cosmic confidence that we were capable of writing good music i'm speaking about the time when we met sam gregg is actually a really great drummer and a great guy i never want to be sound like I'm belittling his contributions. But when Sam joined, there was an immediacy of like, here we go. Which makes a lot of sense if you have like a sort of a seasoned musician all of a sudden join the mix, you know? What band exists that didn't lose their drummer immediately? At least one. At least one. Yeah. Yeah. Being a drummer is a real thinkless position in a band. It's like it's. It's not for the weak heart. It is. And it's definitely like the backbone. Like I'm just thinking of like maybe rush and yeah what's at the back one but you don't get to be the star yeah people

don't pay attention to you you know it's physically the hardest one yeah yeah like also you're sitting yeah you're sitting behind everything yeah you're kind of like you're not moving around uh on your legs but but you're yeah you're like have to and then you're like yeah you're cardiovascular yeah I think it's... It's core workout. It takes a very, I think, unique personality type. Yeah, absolutely. But a great drummer makes or breaks a band.

Yeah. Carlos said all of a sudden, Sam walks in the room. We start playing the exact same songs we were playing, but it's like, just as racing car noises. I don't know how he did it. Yeah, but I was really giddy. Maybe he was like, ha, ha, ha, I don't know. I don't know how Carlos Steve would have interpreted racing car noises.

They play their first show with Sam, May 20th, 2000 at the Mercury Loll. Were you there? Sarah has brought every one of her journals and ticket stubs, and we could look through them, but you could just imagine. Yeah. Well, hmm, I don't know if I was at that. The first time I saw them was at Brownies. Okay. And that was...

Was Sam the drummer? Yes. Okay. Yes. So this would have been after that. Sam said, on my way to my first show, I was wearing my favorite ad hoc mob suit. You know, a J.C. Penny Special from 1965 or whatever. And you know he got that shit at Buckin's Closet.

And I had this sinking fear that they would be dressed in track suits or baggy jeans. I walked into the makeshift dressing room with the Mercury Lounge and lo and behold, everybody had a similar thing going on. I just kind of smiled at everybody and it was either Carlos or Pol that gave me the nod of approval. See, he didn't even know if they were going to wear suits and he wore a suit. That's sync. That's being in sync. Exactly. They're like girls having their periods.

It's like girls having their periods. It's exactly the same as girls having their periods. Someone asked them much later in like a guardian. piece, like, what were your biggest musical influences? Daniel said Fugazi in terms of playing. Bad Brains, the specials, Apex Twin, definitely made me think there are different ways of approaching music, and my first musical memory is the jam. And Paul said, the foundational ones would be Neil Young, Leonard Cohen, Nirvana,

Frank Black, the Velvet Underground, and The Cure. I do love Joy Division, but found them later in college. I found the cure when I was a kid. So some of these inputs here, and obviously we know Carlos. loves, I would presume, the cure and, you know, every other part of things that came from. Totally. And the Smiths. Echo and the Bunnyman, I'm sure.

Yeah. I found this actually so fascinating. So the first piece of music they actually, like, properly release is this thing on a label called Chemical Underground with a K. It's a Scottish Glasgow-based independent label that was started by the Delgado's, who you mentioned earlier. they started an imprint called F-D, F-U-K-D. Oh, yes, I do have that. Yeah.

Or I did. I'm sure you have it still. I believe it's very expensive. I was looking around discogs. They had set it up to release their own first single, and then they would like basically set out to release other sort of smaller bands that they liked. The first one was a band called Aerogram.

The second one was Arab Strap. This is their first piece of release music. It might have just been like we emailed them and sent the demo. It might have been through Arab Shrap. It might have been through the El Gatos. But they basically, that's the first release of their music in the UK. It's a thousand CDs and a thousand 12-inch finals. They all sold out.

I bought probably 40 of them. You bought 40 of them. And then they put out another demo that self-released EP in 2001, the next year, Precipitate that you said, that had Precipitate songs. PDA and a time to be so small, but this is self-released in America. Yeah, and then April 4th of 2000, they opened for Arab Strap at the Bowery Ballroom. I'm assuming maybe that was through the connection of that label. Yeah.

Arab Strap was signed to Matador. Yes. So Chris Lombardi and Gerard Cawley of Matador attend this show. And Chris said, I went upstairs to check Interpol out, and Carlos had his armband on. I was thinking, I'm not really sure what those guys are doing up there, but whatever they're doing, they're doing, they have their thing down pretty pat they're doing it well i remember smiling about it i probably watched two songs and then went back downstairs and had another drink but it stuck with me so i mean so here's the thing carlos like right for all his like pompness or whatever that people like used to make fun of him for

made that band like memorable memorable totally you know and like i dressed up as him for Halloween one year at... And everyone knew who you were, obviously. Well, I went to Motherfucker, and this is, by the way, probably 2001. So very early on. Very early. There's a photo of me and meet me in the bathroom dressed up as Carlos with Carlos. Oh, my God. It might have actually been 2002, but that's still freaking early. Yeah, we don't have an album out. Yeah. And...

About to have an album out of 2007. But he was, like, famous in, like, the club kid scene. Yeah. And, like, he was DJing. And everyone... one that was like going to motherfucker and like there was like a party at Bar 13 that was like the mod party. Oh, shout?

Yeah. They all and like they all knew who he was. You know, he was a very identifiable person. And I think like you forget once you move past sort of what we were talking about like slack or grudge, but even then being very

identifiable is a hallmark of rock music. Absolutely. That's like part of like, of course you want someone that you're like, yeah, I remember that person. Like their style is singular. And it's also like, oh, did you see that band? Oh, you mean the one that has like the Hitler youth guy in it? The guy with the armband, they got the holster.

There was a guy that he used to hang out with that looked so much like him. And we used to call him bizarlos. Stop. Yeah. I bet you there's an army of guys eventually that looked like Carlos that were like at these goth parties. Yeah. There was one that looked like Fabrizio that we used to call Fobritsio. Fobritsio. So good. It's very tragic to look like someone that's famous by accident because then you're like, I'm just going to be like the other version of that. So after that show, they did sort of like a tiny UK tour. I think probably like on the back of that chemical underground release, you know, probably hustled to book some small shows.

But what ended up happening, because again, this is April of 2001. the Strokes EP had come out, the modern age, in January, in the UK. And the hype around the strokes in the UK was already massive. Yeah. And so then the UK music press is now looking towards whatever is coming out of New York. And so the Interpol show sold out because they were part in, you know, in the mind of the UK press. Although I'll say it here, I have a couple quotes, not in reality part of the same scene. Well, they're all downtown.

Right. So, like, they, like, they might say they're not part of the same scene, and that's true. Yeah. In that, they were part of, like, the dark room scene. Right. And, like, the strokes were part of, like, two-A. They were, like, four blocks away from each other. Yeah.

Exactly. And I used to go to the, I was at the dark room. Yeah. You know? Can't, I can't wait a minute. We don't talk about what happened in the dark room. Basically, Paul said, I wish, like, It wasn't like, hey, my buddies of strokes are doing really great.

It was like, wait a minute, who the fuck is making music this good? And they're blowing up. He said, I didn't know any of them until everybody in England was like up their ass. Had never heard of them doing a gig. Nick Zinner knew people in my band. He was part of my scene. But if you think of a lot of internet companies rising up at the same time, they don't think of themselves as all in it together. They think, oh, my God, do you hear about those guys doing super well?

We've got to work on our craft. Which is really interesting because that's a similar thing I read that Karen O. like that was actually we were all really competitive with each other. And they weren't really friends. I mean, maybe later, right? But like it's not like they were like, hey, man, I have a show at Mercury Land. Do you want to open for me? Like they were sort of like setting out on their own.

They're in their own universe. Yeah. And maybe they were playing the same venues. But like that was just because there's eight places to play in New York, right? Not even eight, maybe four. So I thought that was kind of interesting. But anyways, they never like, so like Interpol never. played with the strokes. I don't know if

yeah, yeah, yes, did. The first time I saw the Walkman was opening up for Interpol. Yeah. So I feel like the Walkman and Interpol were more homies. Yes. Yeah. And then obviously Julian's in a band with Matt from the Walkman. Right. Yeah, so there was some crossover there.

They just thought it was funny that they were like, but it is very much like a rising tide raises all ships or whatever. Yeah, for sure. I think I've said that 18 times during this podcast. Okay. Most importantly of this UK tour, they played a Peel session because John Peel was like a very early supporter because he had gotten his hands on, I'm assuming the fucked ID release, but maybe it was their demo. And they played hands away, obstacle to the new and NYC. This also, I'm just going to presume, helped push Matador in their direction.

Because like, now you've opened for Arab Strap. He thought you looked cool. Appeal session's like still a big deal. Yeah. Like, especially in the world, I think, of Mattador. Adador in 2001. According to Chris Lombardi, there's like many stories about this, but he

one of the stories is that he had just, he went to Europe and he had the demo, the newest demo, and he was like listening to it in the car driving around Europe and it just like really hit him. He was like, oh, this is really good. It has a vibe. And Gerard said, it was hard at that point to get a total handle on where Interpol were really

coming from because there wasn't a ton of positive chit chat surrounding their early NYC appearances, at least not within our social circle. That's because Ultra Girl was not in our social circle because she would have been doing a lot of positive Chit-Chap. I guess what happened is they finally call Sam and they're

like, oh, they called the band and according to Sam they were like, so we're not offering you a deal but we like you. And a lot of labels are going to start offering you deals, so you should be prepared. And they were like, okay, what? Like, what kind of meeting was that? But then like a couple of weeks later

they were like, here's a deal proposal. And Gerard Kozlazl said, we ended up offering them a super super cheap by the standard of the day anyway deal and went into planning discussions without ever having met or hung out with them before. The first time I met Carlos was in the matted or elevator on the way of one of those first meetings. In retrospect, that was sort of insane and not at all typical of how we did things at the time. We were jumping into bed with a band we didn't know as artists or people. Luckily for both sides, getting to know them was a lot more fun than we could have anticipated. Yeah. Yeah, they were like in the end, we'll love them.

I mean, I always tell my stepson, like being a good time, is more important than being the best. Totally. In many, in many, I mean, you have to, like, at least be one, you know? You certainly can't be mid and not a good time. Yeah. Yeah. You got to do something, you know?

Just like, and also, like, some of the people that are the best are not. They're the worst time. Yeah, the worst. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, they can kind of get away with it. If you're a genius, if you're, like, that level of exceptional, you can kind of get away with having the world's worst personality.

Yeah. But most of us are not going to be that level. So like, be fun. Yeah, be fun. Be a good time. Be a good hang. Yeah. Okay.

So now it's 2002. I just want to paint a little picture of what's going on in terms of the top selling albums of 2002 just so we know where we're at musically. The M&M show. Yeah. Nellieville. Yeah. By Nellie. Let Go, Averillivine.

What a banger of an album. Brittany by Britney Spears. Silver Side Up by Nickelback, which I'm sorry. I think it's good. This nickelback resurgence is like... This is how you remind me of who I really am. Oh, my God. Do not. I'm really sorry.

You're going to give me an earworm. It's a binger. Oh, my God. Like, my cousins are... They troll me. I didn't know that there was a resurgence. Oh, my God. Between...

So, Nickelback, Creed, Limp biscuit. I have noticed that there's some sort of sci-up going on on Instagram where every time you post a story, the suggested song is Creed Higher. Have you noticed that? I have not. People keep posting it. Like, I've seen it happen to me, but people keep posting a story and saying, weird. The suggested song was Creed Higher. And I'm like, what's happening? Something's going on, you guys. What is going on? But there's like, it's so, I don't even want to know. Like these, my, they're, I'm tongue twat, tongue tied. Yeah. Because that stuff was so uncool when we were younger. It was really uncool. I did love the song. And I have a long. history of loving uncool stuff, but I didn't think it was cool. Wait, so you're saying Nickelback and Avril Levine were the top records of that year.

That's right, 2002. And then they'd go on to marry each other. Can you believe it? Whoa. What are even, what are the odds? What are the odds? Spoon had a big album that year, killed them in lights. There was like a bit of rock.

Not a lot, though. Newfound glory. Mm-hmm. Oh, the singer just died. I know. Sad. He had cancer. In terms of like rock music that is made pertinent to our interest, but I wouldn't say I was topping the charts.

Yankee Hotel Fox Rock comes out in 2002. Great record. Great record. Flaming Lips, Yoshimi battles the pink robots, broken social scene. You forgot it in people taking back Sunday. Tell your friends. Back to Interpol. Back to Interpol.

June 4th, 2002. They put out their third EP, an official EP, via Matador. PDA NYC specialist. Pitchfork gave that a 9.3. They gave 0.7 too low. You were like, that three-song EP is a 10. It's a masterpiece. Yeah.

They underrated it. Pitchfork loves Interpol. Good. They should. Yes. What do they give for our love to admire? Okay. I think our love to admire is when they decided we are just kidding.

You know they always do that. Yeah. when they like gassed a band too much and then the band becomes really popular, they kind of without fail are like, oh my God, we got it wrong. That is... 6.6.0.

That's their best album in my opinion. Or it's like for... Interesting. For me, it's my favorite. Yeah. To me, you're perfect. I love to admire is how you feel about that. I'm kind of a loser because I'm still a turn on the bright lights girlie.

No, most people are. They're like a, you know, turn on the bright lights and antics and like I get it I get it but I think that our love to admire like it hit me at this like exact moment where I needed it yeah you know

and those other albums did as well the EPs did as well but that one I think is so criminally underrated. Interesting. Yeah when I got married we had it playing on repeat at our cocktail hour it's kind of a weird vibe for your cocktail hour. It was actually

extremely appropriate it was perfect yeah Like everyone walked down the aisle to the killing moon by Echo and the Bunny Men. So, yeah, I was very much on the Gauth brand. Yeah. Yeah, well, I can't wait to get into that album with you actually because I want to hear it through your eyes. I do think, and we will present this as we go, but I think Interpol is one of the more most consistent bands of this era. Like, A, they, like, kind of endured the most in terms of, like, they never really went away.

Mm-hmm. They play, like, every year for the past 25 years. They have, like, a very brief hiatus, but, like, it's, like, a couple of years. But they have kind of been steadily putting out album after album after album. And, like, yeah, they're of, like, varying degrees of, like, what, you know, how they hit or how they landed critically or commercially. but like they're all pretty good you know even when you get past like the masterpieces they're all pretty good and they've just kind of kept doing that and we'll get to it at the end but like the newest album is really good so freaking good like unnecessarily good for like a late career album it didn't need to be this good someone compared it to um um uh r em's uh out of time yeah okay because it's like a much like a much like later album when they came out.

Okay, yeah, so we'll talk about that. But let's first talk about Toronto on the boylets. This album was recorded in November of 2001. It was produced by Peter Katzis, who recently passed away, actually, this year. May he rest in peace. I'd actually meet him once. I was so fanned out

because he's, like, such a major figure. And it comes up in my research all the time. He had his hand in everything. He discovered ministry. He managed Jane's Addiction. He managed smashing pumpkins, corn limb biscuit. It's just an incredible, incredible,

incredible figure. But we should talk about this because this album comes out post-9-11, obviously. But all the songs were written before 9-11. And however, like Carlos said, the songs were written before 9-11, but the unintentional meaning they take on isn't any less of a meaning. We were

holding the cards to a certain message that was about to become relevant. It's insane. It's like the universe is taking care of us, even in the form of a horrific event. I guess I know what he's saying, because, like, this album does sound like this, like, kind of requiem for New York City. It really does.

Like even the timing of having like New York cares on like or NYC on that album when everything is going on is incredible. And it does feel it feels like the Swan song that leads into what ended up happening after 9-11. And like in a in a almost state. hangover kind of way. Totally. It felt like a hangover at times.

And then other times it just felt like New York. And like at that time, holy cow. I remember just, I was working in Times Square at MTV, sorry, VH1. And I remember going out every single night because I was like,

what if we die? Yeah. What if we die tomorrow? Got to go out and party. That was really the sentiment that I came across a lot in Meet Me in the Bathroom when people were talking about it or it was just like that was the feeling that a lot of people had or was like sort of like not hedonism is not the right word

but just like... It's like not hedonism. It's like live in the now. Yeah. Right? Like live in the present like who even knows such a crazy pall that it cast over this place. I mean the rest of the country felt it

to varying degrees as well. But I mean you were right right there. Yeah. You know, still dealing with the like physicality of it. and the like dust and like everything, you know? Yeah, it's so crazy. Okay, so Peter Katz had built a studio in the attic of his,

he had this like big house in Fairfield, Connecticut, and they basically all came and lived with him and made this album. Carlos apparently was going a little insane because he wanted to be in the city having a nice time and going out and having girls and fun. And they were like, okay, but we need to be here. and so I guess Carlos did end up bringing girls back to Peter Katz's house which is that right

really good for him for making it work I probably know half of them dying the through line being like Carlos like bigger girls yes he did I think I DJed his birthday party You know yeah Victorian era Yes if I'm not mistaken my friend Karen and I DJed his birthday party

And played Fat Bottom girls I would walk in? I definitely read another other instance of that that Justine D did that. So maybe everyone was trolling him. Yeah. Maybe it was Justine DJ. It was at pianos.

Yeah. That's what I remember. I read about it and maybe it made me to the bathroom tonight. It was probably Justine then. Because I have like a memory of being there. And I also was with my friend Karen and I know I was DJing at some point. It's very funny. Yeah.

Not funny. It's just interesting. It's notable. They had a very little budget. Daniels said it was very nerve-wracking. Daniel clearly is like We got to get this done guys I love his neuroses

Yeah girl boss mode Yeah And even Paul was like Yeah it was nerve wracking And Carlos is like What's up guys? Come on let's try this new thing I'll come later

They were like no no We need to Have you heard of cocaine? I know they're like We gotta and they're like Okay but we need to Peter Is it Cetus?

Yeah it's Cato Sorry I keep on cats He was like They showed up with $900 in cash Just to pay for all the reels of tape but they didn't pay me for a year. He also said this, which I thought was cool. So there's something grand about the record.

It's an odd mixture, kind of crappy sounding and lofi and sludgy in ways, but it also sounds great. People talked about the luscious sound of the reverb, but it's fucking literally almost the cheapest reverb sound. Those guys came in with their little Alessi's microverbs. Cheaper reverbs have a sound that is darker and messier and cooler. And that's part of what gives the drums such a spank.

Without that little $50 piece of gear, the record would have sound totally different. And I was like, oh, that's really cool because it does sound like that. Like it really has this like, it has a darkness to it that feels really intentional. And organic. And organic. Yeah. By the way, I don't mean to go to interrupt. No, please. Interrupt as much as you want. Those happy accidents, like those happy mistakes or whatever they are are the things that make those organic feelings and that like set everything apart. Like even with okay computer, a lot of it was like accidental. Yeah.

I think when people say I love their earlier stuff and it's like this joking thing now, it's mostly that, right? It's that because when you're a younger band, you do not have the freedom and ability and money to like spend 7,000 years tinkering and making things perfect. And because of that, they sound better. Yeah. Yeah. Limitation tends to yield better results, you know? Maybe sometimes not.

Like, we need to get the snare right. Yeah. Although the strokes did do that, and I'll say that for the strokes episode. Yeah. They have a different. They had a different... Situation. Path forward.

Yeah. Paul said this about his lyrics, because obviously a lot is made about the lyrics, and we'll go through song by song. Paul said, I was always very misunderstood and taken as very pretentious and serious all at the time. I would think, do you not see there's a lot of tongue-in-cheek humor here? I think he's right about that. Yeah, I think it's very funny.

But I think because of the delivery is so serious, it's like really dower. you know, this like, that maybe people are like, I mean, yeah, I can see both, both takes on it. He's seriously funny. I mean, he clearly is like an absurdist, you know? Like, I think that might be funny might be going a bit too far because I don't think these are like traditional jokes, but he's certainly like playing in the sandbox of the absurd. And I think that makes a lot of sense when you like read about him and also like read the lyrics in this context. And then you're like, oh, yeah, okay, I get it.

This album was reviewed extremely well. Like, people loved it. It had, I think, like, kind of, it's on Metacritic, it's an 81 out of 100, which is quite high. Like, lots of, everyone pretty much loved it except for one Robert Criscoe. And I just, he's wrong. I just want to read what he said, because it's like, very funny when someone's a contrarian to it. He said, he called it the dud of the month. He said, they bitch because everybody compares them to Joy Division, and they're right.

It's way too kind. And I say that as someone who thanks Ian Curtis for making New Order possible. Wow. Does not hold punches, Mr. Criscoll. Joy Division struggled against depression rather than flaunting it, much less wearing it like a designer suit. What's truly depressing is that just as the hairy behemist of the Grunge Generation looked back to the AOR medal they immersed in his teens, these Phops tweak the nostalgia of young adults who cherish indistinct memories of much worse bands than Joyner. division. Every one of them English. Bowhouse, UltraVox, Visage, Spandau Bellet, Tears for Fears.

Okay, first of all, these are good bands. Those are fucking great bands. Tears for Fears and Bauhaus in particular. Seriously? UltraVox? Like Vienna? I do, I think he's wrong, but that just made me laugh. Yeah. Pitchfork was like, this is the second coming of Jesus' age Christ. That's not exactly what I'm saying. I'm paraphrasing. Give it a 9.5. What was the last time you saw pitchfork of anything a 9.5. I don't really read pitch. Yeah, I mean, sure. Who does? Who does? Interpol's debut full length is wrought with emotional disconnection and faded glory,

epic sweep, and intimate catharsis. Ine. inevitably, the hype exceeds return. That's why it's hype. And to be fair, Interpol has largely flown under the radar compared to most other NYC acts. But there's no getting around that turn on the bright lights is an incredibly powerful and affecting album.

Period. Cosine, yeah. Period. But do you want to die laughing? Yeah. In 2021, pitchfork was like, just kidding. With what album? This one, they gave it a seven. They did this whole thing in 2021 where they re-appraised albums.

And they were like, sorry, we were being so pitchforky. We lied. It's a seven. They're out of their fucking minds. They said, I was nearly 14. This is Jillian Mapes. I was nearly 14 when this record was released. And even then, I remember thinking, sleep tight, grim right.

We have 200 couches where you can sleep tonight from PDA. It was one of the dumbest lines I've ever heard. Subway She Is a Porno? What is this guy on about? First of all, Subway, She Is a Porno is one of the most brilliant lyrics in history. Pavements, they are met. Like, okay, the Subway She Is a Porno is 100% accurate. Period.

Period. Yeah. Like, in the most, honestly, kind of literal term, the subway is pornographic. Yeah, it is. Couldn't agree more. And, like, also, I mean, like, the symbolism of a train going in a tunnel, you know? that's right okay I just thought that was funny I just think it's very like one of my my minors in the college that I am doing here for myself is Pittsburgh changing their mind and then trying

to hide the evidence I love that yeah what a thesis statement it happens all the time like you're like you're like I have the way back machine babe I see what you gave neutral milk hotel at first and it was like a two and now you're like 10 out of 10 masterpiece okay so let's start untitled okay What a first song. I mean, probably, so first of all, coming out the gate with a song called Untitled on your, like, debut record. As the first song. It's a choice. It's a choice.

Yeah. But it's an excellent opener. It's beautiful. Daniel said that this was a piece of music that they cultivated just to open the shows, just kind of set the tone. And it's like, what a perfect, he said it was like to introduce the band live, but it also perfectly introduces the album. Yeah. It sets, it's a tone setter. It is. Yeah, absolutely. Meanwhile, this song also ended up on the television program Friends. Yeah. Isn't it the craziest thing? Yeah. It was like the only time I ever watched Friends if I remember, like, or as like an adult. I watched all of that. Well, you know, everyone has at

some point. And like, I think after they got rid of the monkey, I was like kind of checked out. Yeah, Marcel. Yeah, Marcel was a good condition. But like I remember setting my VCR so that. that I could see how they were going to use untitled. It was in 2003. It was season 9, episode 24, the one in Barbados, Part 2. Real Hudson will remember. My mom loves this episode because I'm pretty sure it's the one where Rachel wrote Ross a really long letter and he falls asleep while reading it. And then she goes, you fell asleep?

And my mom loves to, like, quote that she's my mom was obsessed with friends. Anyways. It was the finale, right? Yes. This song plays in the emotional final scene when Joey and Rachel share their first kiss. Much later on, Paul Banks was asked about this and he said, we're always interested in having our music and cinema or fiction. Friends was a lighthearted sitcom, but very iconic. And the proposed scene was a pretty hardcore moment in the course of that show.

I liked the idea that the scene was a bit off. We asked ourselves, is this cool? And I'm very glad we said yes. Good for you. Yeah. Get that check, first of all. I'm wondering how that, like, friends decided, like, this is going to be the story. song we're going to use. I mean, I think by

2000, because that's 2003. So I think by then, Interpol was pretty popular. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. You know, like pretty height, you know, and. I mean, still indie. Like, they're... Still indie, totally. But I think, like, you know,

I might have this wrong, but I do feel like friends kind of tried to... Be cool. Kind of. Like, I think they had... I mean, they had a lot of room for songs on on that show. And, of course, someone was like, hooting in the blowfish, which I also, I love.

But, you know, like, they probably had a cool music supervisor that was, like, I like this, I like this, you know. You know, they had Paul Westerberg songs. They had Grantley Buffalo. I'm now, like, Googling to see it because I was trying to, I couldn't remember off the top of my head. But, like, I think the music supervisor was, like, kind of hip, you know. And it's such, like, it's like a kind of a perfect, because that's, like, a really emotionally wrenching scene, if I remember correctly. Yeah. Ross and Rachel is over, babe.

Rachel has moved on. Okay, so next. Obstacle One. This song is about me. Is it? Is it? Because you can read? She can read. She can read. She can read. She's bad. She's bad, babe. She's bad, because she can read out-of-print music books and articles on the way back machine and come report them to you in a four-hour podcast.

So you're a bad bitch. She's a bad bitch. As bad as a bitch who does extensive research about bands to make a podcast about them can be, I think. Yeah, she can read. She's bad. She can read. Again, how could people not think Paul Banks is funny when this is the lyrics? Yeah. She can read. She can read.

That's hilarious. So the opening line, I wish I could eat the salt off your lost faded lips. Like, I mean, it's so beautiful. That's really beautiful. We cap the old times. We can say that some of it doesn't make. sense, you know, but like maybe that's like the nirvana of it all. Doesn't always have to make sense. I mean, it's open to interpretation is what it is. It's certainly like dream language, you know,

and kind of dense, but like that's fine. I don't need, I don't need literal. Like there's of course like multiple schools of songwriting, but like I don't always need it to be so literal that I understand every word or like Jack and Jill went up the hill, you know? Or you know, or you know, know, or, you know, there's always those, like, sort of, like, mini little stories in songs, or there's the sort of PJ Harvey Nick Cave school of, like, telling, like, literally telling a story. Literally telling a story and embodying a character or whatever. And then there's this kind, which I really love because you're like, the words sound beautiful, the emotion is clear. And then you're just like, yeah, you go stabbing yourself in the neck, which apparently came from a story about a

model who did this? What? Yeah. Really? I didn't consult Paul Banks about this, but the timing does line up in 2001 or 21-year-old plus-sized model committed suicide in her apartment in Manhattan by stabbing herself in the neck multiple times. Oh, God, that's awful.

Interesting. Maybe the New York Post. It's terrible, but who knows if that made it's... So the fact that this song, or that line is about... I don't know if it is, but this... This did happen in 2001, and it was covered extensively in New York press. So there's an idea that it might have been. This is just like a note on Genius.com that someone wrote, and I didn't find any corroboration by the band.

So like the lyrics that come before then, it's different now that I'm poor and aging. I'll never see this face again. Like imagine being a model. I know. She's only 21, though. Yeah, but. But the, but the, the idea. idea that just like a detail and a story sets your mind off into like writing lyrics. And yeah,

this is obviously about a beautiful woman, you know, like the lips and the, who knows, it's the way that she posed. That's a model. You know, this is kind of actually my favorite line in this, because it's so unexpected, is her stories are boring and stuff. Yeah. Because it's also not poetic at all. Yeah. Her stories are boring and stuff. Yeah. I mean, it's one of those things where like, I remember people. being like, you really like this band? Boring and stuff. Boring and stuff.

Contrasted to the other, like, highly stylized and poetic lyrics, I love that it was there, you know? It's absurd. Yeah, and it breathes like a bit of levity into an otherwise sort of like punitively heavy song. And it's also very young because you're, if you're, like, 21 and you're describing, like, a girl, you're like, oh, her songs are boring and stuff. Yeah.

You know, like, you don't have the vocabulary to really elaborate on what the issue is. And, like, how beautiful is she puts the weights into my little heart? I love it. It's beautiful. I love them. I mean, I love them. NYC, the subway, is a porno. Yeah.

Period. Period. I mean, in every way. How, have you ever, did you ever get, like, touched inappropriately on the subway? subway. Am I a woman? Oh, my God. So one time I got like, the answer is yes. Ironically, actually, you know what I'm thinking? Or I just had this like memory. I got, I was on a subway. I, some dude like put his hand on my lap because I was like kind of like drifting off after a long day. I yelled at him. And then I look over and Carlos is like sitting. Stop. Yeah. Yo, I've had so many random shit like

Like I did ayahuasca and I saw one of the guys in that. I was like, shit, I'm going to be puking my brains out. And the last thing I want to do is see Interpol while I'm doing this. But anyway, so yeah, Subways are or porno. I know, again, like we talked about people make fun of that. Like, I don't understand. I think it's like such a good lyric. It is.

And like, I'm sick. The minute you hear it, you know exactly what it means. Yeah, yeah. Unless you're not from New York. Right. Or you've never lived there and you've never, you know. It's like, there's literally like, there's literally like, fluids. Like it is all over. It's disgusting. Yeah. It is disgust. It's like, yeah, it's

pornographic. Yeah. And it's kind of, it's, the way it's saying to, again, like I think there's sort of a genius of contrast going on, right? That's like a, that's kind of a harsh lyric, but it, the whole song is this like, lilting, sort of like, uplifting hymnal of a song. And to hear that lyric within that context is like, it's cool. Yeah. And, and. And, contrasting it with like what the strokes had at that moment, which was New York City cops or whatever. And so you have one that's like a love song to the city. And then another one that's like a fuck you to the city. Right.

And at that moment. That was bad luck on the strokes part. Yeah. They didn't know that. And bad timing. Well, yeah. They didn't know that. Who could have predicted.

It's always okay to be ACAP, you know, but just poor timing. You know who could have predicted it? Miss Cleo George Bush who was given Intel Who did it Yeah

Who did it No this is not conspiracy yet What's what was the What's that Amazing Coast to Coast Okay

The next song First song ever PDA Peter Katas said when they recorded that song When they were finished the record

Paul Banks was like Fuck that song That's one of the first songs We ever wrote And I don't want to bother with it

And Peter was like, whoa, listen, buddy, not to act like a bitch or anything, but that's your hit single. Yeah. Also, it's not, but that's fine. Right. Well, and Daniel was like, look, he wrote those lyrics in 1998. He was 20. Like, he's, I get it. You're probably like, I don't want to sing these words.

That was 20 years old. Like, you know, it's been four years. I'm a different person. But thank God it's on there. I can't even tell you how many times I say you're so cute and you're frustrated, dear, like to my husband all the time. Does he like it? Yeah, actually he does.

He loves when I quote interpol to him all the time. We have 200 couches, babe, where you can sleep tight. Grim right. I love we have 200 couches. I'm trying to think if the rap that Daniel did was on PDA or, oh my God, I'm like, I can hear it in my brain. Do you remember any of the lyrics from it? Oh, my God.

Takes a small man to notice, but not to act up. Oh, my God. You do remember. It was Song 7. I'm dead. There's a Reddit post that's like I added Daniel Kessler's rap spoken word part back into the song seven studio version. That's probably me that posted that. It was you.

You're like on Reddit being like, hey guys, I put it back. Ultra girl like Whenever I post on the Interpol sub-rited they're like Ultragirls enter the chat She's here! You're a celebrity to them too They're like to me. The next song is say hello to the angels And yeah, does it live next door to this charming man by the Smiths? So I have a funny story about this.

I think the first time they ever played that song live was at Mercury Lounge. I think it was the one, the show that they did with the Walkman. And they had it on the set list as Smith's song. Okay. This is like insider baseball, no one knows. We're not beating the allegations, and that is okay. Yeah. These are fine allegations.

I mean, listen, they know it of themselves. Yeah. It is a Smith song. It's a Smith song. They called it the Smith song. Not the whole thing, but definitely like large swaths. I mean, you have like that opening is just like, beep, beep. It's, uh, and yeah, it's exactly this charming man.

Yeah. And you can play them back to back when you're like DJ. and indie rock party, post-punk bullshit, yeah. I still think it's a great song, and as I said on the AAS episode, it's okay. If you want to reheat the Smith's nachos, those are really good nachos. They're fucking delicious nachos. Actually, you know what, the two bands that I can, well, three, there's three bands that I listen to consistently without problem. The Smith slash Morrissey, Interpol, and Radiohead.

I mean, I think that those are pretty... Really enduring. Yeah. I never got too deep into Morrissey's catalog, I'll be honest, but I still listen to the Smith all the time. I know people, it's mostly like you went all the way, you know, but I just, I just didn't. Morrissey's another artist that I've seen probably every year for the past 25 years. When he shows up. He's only canceled on me twice.

He had tickets to see him at the Greek. Was it the show that he walked out on? Because he was cold. Yes. Yeah. Three songs in. Do you remember like there's two guys arguing on the side of the stage? No, I didn't even go to the show.

show. Thank God. It actually worked out perfect because I, like, had a conflict and I ended up, like, going to this other show. And, like, I was really sad about it. And then come to find out, he walked up after three songs because he was cold. Yeah. There was, like, two guys arguing on stage during those first three songs. And I was like, oh, he's doing, like, this whole new thing because they look like, they look like characters that maybe would have been in his, like, music videos or something. He thought it was like a production trick. Yes. Yeah. I thought it was just like, oh, there, it's, Jack the Ripper. Like, there's some sort of, like, boxer thing.

And, uh, no. No. Um, anyway, so this is a Smith song. And again, that's fine. And yeah, it's actually, like, totally fine. It's totally fine. Yeah. The other standout songs for me on here are Stella was a diver and she was always down.

I really love that song. It's a great song. You know that the beginning was Paul, like, um, when he goes, Sherlock was a drive. He was eating rice. Oh, I, it was. I thought it was that he was imitating Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lambs. Oh, maybe. I don't. Peter Cadas said that Paul, well, yeah, he just said he was goofing around

with a mouthful of rice. So maybe he was using the mouthful of rice to do his Buffalo Bill. Yeah. That's really funny. This one's called Stella was a diver and she's always down. I love when songs leave in little things like that. Yeah. Like the goofy ass shit. I really love the new. Oh, yeah, for sure. It's on the back half of the album, so I feel like it doesn't get as much love. But, like, I just think it's so beautiful. It's a little funky.

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe a little red hot chocolate. I mean, it's just like, yeah, it's a beautiful song. See, this is like the song I probably would have used in Friends. You would have used in New? Yeah, I think so. But see, this is how I can tell you're not a friend's head because you weren't, you don't understand the emotional devastation.

with Ross and Rachel being over. Like we need the heavy, we need to pull out the big guns. So that could have been, that could have been Leif Erickson. I feel like it could have been the new. The chorus is so fucking beautiful of the new. Yeah. It's so good. Lee Farisand also really good.

You know, I actually can't believe how much I quote this album in everyday life. Like the part of, I can't pretend I don't need to defend some part of me from you, from you. Who do you say that to? My husband. I only talk to him. That's a really heavy thing to quote to your husband. Oh, that's not even the worst of it. My poor loving husband.

He's like, I don't want any more Paul Banks out of your mouth. Can you just stop? What a debut album, just like truly exceptional stuff? Absolutely. And as a debut, in my opinion, it's like, Of the top 20 debuts in music. Okay. Maybe even top 10.

Oh. I mean, it's unusually good. Yeah. It didn't have to be this good. Yeah. Like the new record, it doesn't have to be this good. Totally. They played poker with Robert Smith, no big deal.

Oh, I think my friend Karen Rutner was there. Yes, I wrote that she won money from Robert Smith in, meet me in the bathroom. Okay, so what's really cool is then the next album comes out just two years later, 2004. Here's a quote from one Sarah. Me? That's you. According to my blog, it was Tuesday, October 21st, 2003 when I heard the new songs. I wrote, speaking of Interpol, I saw them last night.

concert and their new songs made my heartbeat in my pants. I remember riding my bike around Soho while listening to it and singing at the highest possible volume while dodging cabs. Yeah, 100%. I remember that so well, I am the scavenger between the sheets of union. Like, when I got that record, well, first of all, I don't think I was supposed to have a copy of it. Right. I was in, I was, no, as an editor, it's been at that point. And I don't think we were allowed to take copies out of the building. Oh, but you did. I did. Of course I did. Like, and I also... You couldn't have just, you could have just burned a CD.

I probably did that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, someone else also did that because this album leaked three months before it was supposed to come out. I probably did that. Sarah, no. I mean, there's a lot of things I ended up leaking at some point. Um, and I think this was one of them. Oh, no, Sarah. It's okay. It did good still. You're right. You're right. I mean, this is like, this is a really interesting time in music, right?

It's even 2002, like, we've, like, we've, kind of firmly entered the like the post yeah like people are still buying CDs but they're also trading music online they're also burning CDs for each other like we're starting to get into this sort of like no man's land before streaming takes over and you could almost hear music on a website yeah almost if you had good enough internet and patience and a pure heart you could do it like 30 seconds. Paul said, I can see why the new record would make people kind of nervous. It's less self-conscious about itself and more unabashedly self-involved, which was exhilarating

and embarrassing at the same time while we were doing it. What always bugs me is when things become transparent. Unless it's a perfect work of incredible art, which I can't really hope to have achieved yet, but one day hopefully will, things get old fast. So what I want to explore is free associativeness that's so purely linked to my unconscious that it can't ever become transparent. In some cases on the album, I was literally channeling something like, he mim's vomiting, and there it is on the record. There are things that are purely from an unconscious place.

I love that. I know. So basically, half of these songs were already written when Turn on the Bright Lights came on. So they're not like, they didn't have to, like, really rush to complete an album. They had a lot of these songs, because so many of the Turn on the Bright Lights songs were really, old. They had already started writing new songs, and then those are ones that ended up on antics. So there's a reason probably that, like, these two albums are really cohesive. Yeah. And feel similar and part and parcel kind of. And they don't, it doesn't sound like Turn on the Bright Lights

Part 2 per se. Like, there is like an evolution and stuff, but they go together really well. Like you could put a song that's on this album on Antics on Turn On the Bright Lights and then vice versa. Totally. This album also did really well. was very positively received critically. It's a great album. It's a great album. Next Exit is one of those. That's the first song was already written

before the last album was finished. Obviously, Evil is a standout track. That's, you know, we're getting in our pixies bag. That baseline? Yeah. Absolute fucking chef's guess. Actually, Carlos D says he didn't write the baseline. Really?

Who wrote it? Well, he said he basically just went off of what Daniel wrote. So he like, it mimics the guitar line is what he said. Oh, I thought he was going to be like, it was divine intervention. Right. I think that's cool that he wasn't like trying to take credit. Yeah, that's fair. Absolutely.

I mean, because the baseline's killer. It's incredible. Yeah. I'm really mad because I didn't read ahead enough. And I, because of this, I spent an hour on the Wikipedia. page for Fred and Rosemary West and their murders, the British serial killers, one of the worst stories of all time. Absolutely horrendous.

I don't like that kind of stuff. Like I don't watch like true crime or like murder documentaries. And I felt really ill afterwards. Thanks, Paul Banks. I know he said it's not about them. But like, okay, if you didn't say Rosemary, I wouldn't have spent that time on there. But he has said like flat out that's not about those people. Well, that's a relief.

Yeah, that is a relief. But who the fuck is Rosemary then? Well, he said it's actually was inspired by The Flowers of Evil, a poem by Charles Baudelaire. Oh, of course. That's right. Because they read. Yeah. Which is a poem.

It focuses on the tension between the spleen, which is where they say you hold melancholy, boredom and despair, and the ideal beauty, spirituality, and art. He just liked the way the name Rosemary sounds. But actually, even the serial killers kind of make sense in it. It's so much of this album, to me, feels about. the like brutal horrors like the horrors persist but still like we must we must like laugh and dance and go on you know like it's like the sort of duality of like how ugly and terrible the world can be but yet like there is beauty you know so i think that there is something to be said about writing an album in new york post 9-11 when you've been in new york for

years that moment too totally i mean what's more what's more horror than you know experiencing that level of trauma yeah absolutely and it was like after this album that they had to all go to rehab if i'm not mistaken right so other levels of horrors are persisting i mean but i think it's a it goes to show that like um we all were processing this trauma in such uh he didn't ways. Yeah, totally. I mean, listen, a band is going to do cocaine, so 9-11 or not. Yeah. Honey, you know, but I think it got pretty dark. Well, we should talk briefly about the video, which is also one of the more heroin things I've ever seen. Yeah. Norman the puppet. Yep. But positioned in front of a horrifying car crash of real people. So I remember when I saw that

for the first time and I was like, is this Paul as a puppet? They said it was actually based on Steve Bushamie. Okay. I know. Who was a firefighter during 9-11? Really? Yeah, he volunteered. Oh.

Yeah. Maybe that's why. Yeah, maybe. That's so interesting. It's a really crazy video. Yeah, it's absolutely wild. It's kind of exactly what I just described. I feel like with the theme of the album.

It's like this like sort of like absurd and funny and like kind of like things set against these like really horrible. I don't know. And it's this work of art. I'm stretching. I think that they don't take, like, they're a band that people think takes themselves seriously, but at the same time they actually don't. Totally.

You know? I mean, the puppet is, yeah. I always thought the outro of NARC was referencing a place for friends that Tom created. Mm. You should be in MySpace, but I don't think that's what he meant. You know, that's so funny. Because I... MySpace was popping by 2004.

I think about that constantly. Yeah. You think about Tom coyly looking over his shoulder. Yes. Yeah. He was on Raya. He still is. I believe. Oh, really? I haven't been on there in a while, but...

Same. Yeah. Well, you're married, I would hope so. I still have my account. Okay. So sometimes when you're flinging Paul Banks' lyrics at your husband, you go and lock the door and get on Raya just to see what's popping. Well, I keep my account just in case someone needs a reference. Sure. It's kind of you. Yeah, but my entire profile is like just me and my husband kissing and I think there's like an interval. Yeah. Take You on a cruise is a fucking massively amazing song. And I'd, feel it does not get a lot of, you know, people don't talk about it enough.

I'm timeless like a broken watch. Like, come on. So I wear three watches at once. I had to take them off because I didn't want them clinking. Yeah. But I always wear three watches. What is the thinking behind this? Well, I'm running out of time.

Oh. Yeah. But also, like, one of them works. One of them I got from Chinatown in New York. And the other one I found in my dad's office. But two of them are broken. So time is like a broken watch. It's almost like a broken watch.

You make money like Fred Astor. Yeah. Which I find to be such a really great lyric. That you make money like Fred Astaire. Yeah. Because he's performing. That's how he makes money. Yeah.

That's true. Like that is such a subversive, not even subversive, but it's like you really need to think about like, what the fuck does he mean by that? Yeah, he's a clown. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kind of. We're all in the sun's clowns.

The anatomy of kisses and a teacher who tries, like, that's like about, like, learning how to fuck or make out or something like that. It's a really beautiful and sexy and gorgeous song. It is! Obviously, slow hands. Slow hands. Is a bop. Is a bop. Slow hands and evil are the two that come jump immediately to mind when I think about intrepole, just because they're like so catchy.

We spies. Yeah, we slow hands. Nobody searches. Nobody cares somehow. Have you ever heard the Azealia Banks cover of this song? Yes, and it's great. And I really appreciate. She's like obsessed with Carlos D.

Is that true? Yeah, you can Google. Like she tweeted like this whole missive about Interpol and like her obsession with Carlos D. Like she's ahead. She's ahead. So not even jail. I love that song. So good.

That song, Karen and I used to DJ all the time at our Stolen Transmission Party. It's a... It's a bob. It's a bob. It filled the dance floor. Yeah, people love that song. It's a great song. Yeah, I mean, also, some of these titles are so great.

Public Pervert is such a great title. Oh, my God, it's amazing. So I named, my husband and I named our LLC antics after the album. Wow, you guys are really soulmates. Yeah. Well, he didn't want to go with our... love to admire. And so we found out that Antix was available. And even like our banker was like, how did you get this? So we have Antix LLC. And there was a moment where someone was like,

are you sure you don't want to go with public pervert? You were like, I thought about it. And yeah, I think that's a, that's probably a bad business name. Yeah. Can you imagine like my credit card? Yeah. Just you're like, oh, the last couple of songs were also like older songs that were written before the album was finished, Camere, Length of Love in a time to be so small. Length of Love is so beautiful. It's really beautiful.

I like a symphony. Yeah. Yeah. This album is also, I mean, I prefer Turn on the Bright Lights, but I also like antics quite a bit. I only prefer Turn on the Bright Lights because Turn on the Bright Lights to me

is like a really immersive experience in which like there's not a ton of change. Like, if this makes sense, like, tonal change that's too drastic that you, like, shakes you out of that. which can be good and bad, but I love it for Turn on the Bright Lights. It's just like you're in a hot tub, you know? Whereas like antics is a lot more diverse in like song to song, like how it feels.

It's a lot more polished. Yeah, definitely a lot more polished. The poppy songs are more poppy. Yeah. And I do feel like that there's an experience to this album, even though some of the songs are carried over from the first album or like older songs. songs. There is like some sort of experience. Like you can't have a lyric like I make money like Fred Astaire without turn on the bright lights existing. Yeah, you can, it's a mature, it's

definitely a more mature album. You can tell it's an up level. Yeah. Okay. So on the back of the antics, they tore a ton and partied a ton, although I guess that's really just half the band is what I was reading. It was mostly Paul and Carlos that were the party perpetrators. Sam said, I was worried. By the antics era, hence the name of the record, it was like, these guys are not just cokeheads. They're waking up with beers in their hands. They're full-on alcoholics. It's just not fun to be around. I really didn't like it. And Paul said, eventually it became about survival. I was burning the candle. I mean, the candle was going to go out. My personality and my work were suffering. My ability to do work. My life had become just the partying. Part of the reason I wound up getting sober was an experience I had when I was really fucked up and I ran into Jalil Bunton, the drummer for TV on.

on the radio. Shout out, Joliel. I've known him forever from when I went to Max Fish all the time. Another person I went to Max Fish all the time? Yossi Selle. Yeah. I could see it in his face what he was thinking. Dude, you're fucking slipping man. He didn't say anything, but he made me feel embarrassed for myself. It was just the look I saw in his eyes. The look he gave made me wince deep down inside. This isn't meet me in the bathroom. And Jaliel said, I do remember seeing him and having the thought, you're better than this. This is powerful. Just a look. that Paul was like, I'm ashamed of myself. Yeah, I mean, that's like some crazy shaming that he got.

I've had this experience, too, in the past. You know, like, sometimes you're already ashamed of yourself. And it's like, it just takes a person that maybe you admire or, like, has, like, maybe a level of integrity that, like, you look up to. And just, like, feeling them next to you, you're like, ugh, I'm disgusting. I mean, I'd like to say that that deterred me from anything. It takes a bunch of times, I think. have to be ready.

Oh, man. But, like, times were fun when they were out. Sure. And, look, it's part of the story. It's part of the art. No, but, I mean, they were fun. Yeah. They were, like, it was a good time when Paul and Carlos were out at the parties and having

a good time. Yeah. Yeah. They do get sober. Not quite yet. They keep touring all the way through, like, October of 2005. They now fulfilled their mad at ordeal. That's two albums.

And obviously they're doing really well. Major labels are knocking. Meanwhile, the intraband dynamic is bad. The vibes are bad. Cocaine will do that. Cocaine will do that. Paul said Carlos and I were just at constant lockerheads. We had a horrible relationship at that point.

And Sam was in a very dark place, unbeknown Stephen to me, because he was just kind of dealing with this shit quietly. And meet me in the bathroom. Sam said he started taking liquid bike it in to deal with everyone. I've tried liquid Vicodin. It's insane. That's how bad Carlos and Paul fighting was. Sam was like, I'm just going to like a couple drops of liquid vitamin just take the edge off. Someone brought liquid Vicodin to like my 22nd birthday and like gave me a bottle.

And she's like, I got this from my dad's medicine cabinet. Her dad was a dentist. And so I was just like dropping liquid Vicodin in everyone's mouth. At a party? At my birthday party. Yeah. It was like not really a party drug. It was fun.

You were like, we had a good time. Yeah. It's not a party drug. I mean, it's a party drug until it's not. Sure. Right. Many such cases. But yeah, so you were, so Sam was like taking liquid viking.

Yeah, so Sam's gone also in a dark place. But then Paul and Carlos get clean. According to Sam, I'm paraphrasing, but somehow Carlos became more unpleasant when he was clean. See, that is not a surprise. Yeah. He was like, oh, before like, I don't, I didn't write exactly what. said down, but it was something to the effect of, like, he had no problem telling you when he didn't like something or, like, wasn't into something and he seemed more annoyed all the time,

which that kind of makes sense of it. Yeah. You know, anyways, it's from this beautiful and rich soil that they go into the studio to make their third album, Sarah's favorite. 2007s are loved to admire. They signed to Capitol. This became a big deal, right? People were like, you should not do that.

Yeah, there was, like, a mixed bag of reaction. Some were like, this is a sellout move. Some were like, well, the rumors were that Capital wouldn't move forward with them unless they did rehab. Oh, interesting. Yeah. So that was like part of it. Yeah. I didn't come across any of that in my research, but it doesn't mean it's not true. I mean, I think if you were in that circle, that was part of the lore or whatever.

I was working. I had my record label going through Island Def Jam at the time. And so I think I heard from an A&R person that that was like the stipulation. Well, if that's the case, probably ultimately a good thing. Yeah, for sure. For sure. I mean, this is by far my favorite record. And like I feel like it gets, you know, dismissed so much.

I think it's very interesting that people were making hay of them signing a capital when like the other bands in this scene. which didn't, I guess, really have a name at that time, were already on major labels. Like, the strokes started out on a major label. The AAS were on a major label. And nobody really seemed to bulk at that. Yeah. So, but I guess, like, it is, it's like the classic thing of going from something like Mattador that's just, like, really cool and respected and indie to something like Capital,

that it's like maybe it's the move. I wonder if people have a hard time with this album, because, they can maybe, because like part of it for me is I can like feel the stress in it. Like it's an album that, which can be such a good thing. But like it's clearly an album that was like made out of like tension. Yeah. You know, like the vibes are bad. Well, so I don't agree that they're so bad. I think more. Not on the songs. I mean, I just know the vibes of the band were bad. No, I know. Like you can feel the tension. Like I understand like sometimes that tension makes beauty. Totally.

You know? And so I think that this is like a really good example of what, like how, how beauty can come out of stress and darkness. Totally. And I think they gave it their all with this album. And it was a very clear departure from Turn on the Bright Lights and Antics in a way that felt like to me almost like their OK computer. Yeah. That's like a strong statement. I completely understand.

But OK Computer is so different from the. the bends and Pablo Honey and like this feels so different to most people. But in a way, I feel like this is like their most symphonic album. So that's part of why I love it. I think part of the thing with this album is that like we talked about like, right, those first two albums were sort of written in a more unconventional way in the sense that like they had already written the song so close to each other. So like the the pressure of the sophomore album kind of fell to the third album, right? Because they had to really start from scratch and they're sober, or Paul sober, you know, like the person who has to craft the lyrics and the tone. And so I think coming from

that, there was like a lot of pressure. And, you know, a lot of people do love this album. And they did rise to the occasion. They brought in a producer, different one. So, because Peter Katas did the first two albums. They moved to this guy named Rich Costi. Who's like a legend. Yeah, he did around this time he was like most notable for having done muses album um black holes in revelations which was such a massive hit and also the franz fernet album um you could have it so much better so i mean i'm sure capital was like those are hits well let's get some hits on the table um the symphonic thing you're talking about i wonder if it comes from the fact that like this is uh the first time they actually started incorporating keyboards yeah from the songwriting like you're like you're like you're

like from the jump into like the arrangements. Right. Yeah. So it probably does have that feel of, you know, orchestral or whatever because you have the things. It's still charted well. It hit number four on the Billboard 200. You know, it's sold decently well for how well-ver-well CDs were selling in fucking 2007. Most people don't like this record, though.

It got kind of mixed reviews. Like from what I'm looking at, it's like, Entertainment Weekly gave it an A-minus. And, I mean, you gave it an 8, which is pretty high. the Observer gave it four out of five stars pitchfork we said six Pop matters which I guess used to be a thing four out of ten so it was like kind of all over the place

you know I actually love like there's like three songs on here that I was like I fully forgot how much I love these songs no I in threesome what a song dude I am obsessed with that song it's really wonderful it's like

yeah just really a really awesome song great lyrics, really beautiful. I love the Heinrich maneuver. Sorry, how are things on the West Coast? That's really fucking catchy. It's a really catchy. I mean, now that I live here, it's like people ask me all the time. And I'm kind of like a slut for literary references, and Heinrich was Anas Nin's nickname for Henry Miller.

Oh. No kidding. Sorry, I love that kind of shit. I fucking love that. kind of shit. Oh, I love that. How were things on the West Coast? So Pioneer to the Falls, do you know the story of that one? No. Okay. So apparently it's about this woman who left Pioneer Bar and was on her way to

the Falls and got murdered. Oh, my God. Yeah. How fucking crazy is that? Like I had my friend Jenny Penny told me that that was the story. I was like, what the hell? And I went into this whole, like, deep dive into it. But that opening line, like, show me the dirt pile and I will pray that the soul can take. Three Stobey's like, oh. Yeah, I feel this album is unfairly maligned. It is really good.

It is really good. And I think I get it. Like, people tend to love, they tend to hate when a band gets more complex. Mm-hmm. Because it can have varying results, right? Sometimes bands do it just to do it, you know? But I do, this album's really good. It is really good.

And you know what I'm realizing? There is like a bit of a three theme in it. Because like there's this song where it goes, you know, the soul can take three stowaways. Yeah. And then there's no I and threesome. So like what was going on? The third album. Yeah, their third album.

Rest my chemistry constantly referring to that. song. That's a good song. That's like probably one of the more explicit lyrical songs that you get from Paul Banks where it's like pretty obvious what's it about what it's about like it's about being on drugs. Yeah. And having a, you know, calm down. Yeah. I'm going to rest my chemistry. I still like indulge, uh, in beverages. Okay. Um, because I work in food and beverage. Like a Diet Coke or like a like a Yerba Mata. A macha, bobbytee. I've really gotten into, okay, so in all seriousness, I've gotten really into Jaeger.

Jaeger takes me back immediately. I'm in Max Fish. Yeah. Immediately I'm doing Jaeger bombs, which someone traumatized me because they were like, you know, that is a McDonald's cheeseburger. Just give it to me. I don't know if that's true. I don't think it's true.

But like I was quite fat when I was living in New York and partying at Max Fish every day. And I have to be like, me. I mean, that's... Might have been the Yeager moms. Or it could have been barricettes at 4 o'clock in the morning. It could have been Rosarito. It could have been the cheeseburger pizza. San Loco.

I hated San Loco. I'm from Los Angeles, babe. I got there and they were like, here's Mexican food. And I was like, is it? I fucking love San Loco. You know, they closed that one. I was so bummed out. Yeah, I didn't lose any sleep over that.

But anyways, this isn't really neither here nor there. Yeah, you also have to rest your chemistry sometimes if you indulge in beverage is just like anything else. Yes. When I have a few. many Yeagers. I'm like, the next day I'm like, sweetie, I got to rest my chemistry. And I'm now realizing how many, how often I quote interpol. I think it's great. You have a shorthand with your husband and it's all interpol lyrics. Yeah, it's all interpol lyrics. And the line of, I haven't slept for two days. I've bathed

than nothing but sweat. Holy cow, how many of us did that in the two, like the mid-2000s? I don't I remember taking a shower the whole time. Now that you say it, I have a lot of memories, but showering is not a strong memory, but I'm sure I did. I mean, I'm sure I did too every so often, but like it wasn't a very common occurrence. Which is kind of crazy because I had a boyfriend at the time, so you would think that maybe I would do it. He must not have minded it. He was fine with it. Okay, so career-wise, they put out this album.

They take a bit of a hit on two. levels, right? One is like you signed to a major. Yeah. And the other is like some of us don't like this album. What have you done? But not, you know, again, not a huge commercial hit. Just like a little shift in the like, I think they had a golden child thing kind of going on

for the first two albums. Like, wow, you know. And I remember deeply like the albums coming into the record store and like, you know, everyone losing their minds and they were so handsome and all this stuff. This one's a grower. It's a grower. Yeah. The other ones

grab you right away. Yeah. But they're huge. They start playing 7,000 person shows, small arenas. They headline Lollapalooza in 2007. And after the tour, they take kind of a really long break. Paul Banks moves to New Jersey. He says, I didn't have a social life.

I just worked. I totally isolated. That's when he made his solo album. Where did he move in New Jersey? Why am I finding all this? New Jersey stuff happening with Paul. I mean, you got to ask him. His first album was under the moniker Julian Plenty, and it was called Julian Plenty, a skyscraper

came out in 2009. But anyways, that's what he was working on. Paul's, like, roommate in college was this guy called Sebastian. Sebastian messaged me while I was interning at Spin. I had, like, a column in the Spin Online. Yeah. And I, like, mentioned Interpol. This is like 2000, 2001.

I like happened to mention them. And he wrote in like saying, are you a marketing plant? Because how the fuck do you know who Apple is? And so he and I became friends. And he was like, oh, I'm recording songs for Paul. And so he played me these like... The Julian Plenty songs.

But this is like years before Julian Plenty. They're good. It's not my thing, but yeah, it's good. I like it. Sam, for his part, went down to Athens, Georgia. Anyways, everyone kind of scattered and was like, we need a break. We're fucking tired. It's been, like, kind of nonstop for whatever, six years.

On March 6, 2009, the band announced on its website, which is the thing bands used to do, that they were working on songs for a fourth album. And that fourth album came out in 2010, self-titled. What a move. Yeah. Fourth album, self-titled? I mean, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a cocksure move. It's a real, like, re-establish.

Like, oh, we're re-establishing ourselves. Like, this is Interpol, you know? Yeah. Back on Mattador, babe. I know. That was such an interesting move. Apparently what happened is when they signed to Capitol, they signed with this team of people that they really admired who had signed Radiohead, who had worked with people that they really loved. And right after, like, not right after me, midway through the album cycle, all those people got fired.

And so they didn't have anyone that they had come there with, you know? And so they were like, well, we don't want to be here. We don't have our people. And they finished this album and they were like, we want to take it back to Matador. And like, amazingly, Capital was like, okay. They didn't fight them on it. So their manager at the time was Radiohead's manager, if I'm not mistaken. So I think that was like part of like the, if I'm, I could be wrong. But I would imagine that was like part of the negotiation process. That sounds right. There had to be a some. reason the Capitol was like, all good, babe, have a nice time. It's not usually the way that major labels work. It's hard to get bought out of your record deal. It's not easy at all. So this album didn't really hit me. This is the one where like what I was kind of saying about our love to admire. I think our love to admire, this is pure speculation, fan fiction on my part, but I think it's like they still had some of the juice of the early band, even though, that you're just that you're there was stress and tension and whatever, but there was like still this magic left over and they were

able to sort of channel it into this thing. This is the album where like the vibes are rock fucking bottom. Yeah. It is hell, it sounds like on earth to make this album. And also this didn't have Carlos in it. So that like I think contributed quite a bit. He was there. Oh, I thought this was the first album that they did without him. He's there. He's kind of checked out. Okay. I mean, I want to make sure I'm I'm correct, but he doesn't leave the band officially until after the album comes out. So I think he's in that I think we decide to name the record Interpol before Carlos left the band, although he had, although he left the band before the record was done. Before it was done.

Yeah. But he was definitely like part of a lot of it. And that's part of why the vibes are so bad. Yeah. You know, like he is part of it. It's bad juju. Yeah. Paul, Paul Banks said we were all a fucking mess and I had a tough time doing the vocals.

on our love to admire, Carlos and I started to diverge in terms of where we wanted to go. Like, I don't really give a fuck about what you think I'm trying to do. This is what I'm trying to do. As a band, we still work like that to this day, but we push ourselves individually and the group thing is going to be what it is. But back on this album, Carlos was like, no, this is what I want to do. And I don't give a shit where you want me to go with this song. Don't fucking touch my keyboard. I respect that, but it was partially the growing pains of us not knowing how to interact with each other.

It's tough to have a full band vision when it's better to just respect each other. individual's vision. Maybe I wasn't great at doing that. You know, the hangover clearly was rough. Yeah. And Sam said that Carlos, again, was there, but he was like really not interested in playing bass. He really wanted to do more arranging and orchestrating keyboard parts. It was like pulling teeth to get him to do bass. And there was just tons of tension, right? And Sam said, finally one day he walked in the room and said, I'm leaving the band. And that was that. I gave him a hug. And that was the last time I saw him. He was concurrently going to

acting school while they were making this album. So he was very checked out, right? I ran into him at a at a deli or a cafe or something in Soho. And I was just kind of like staring out in this space. After he left the band. And he's like Sarah. And I'm like, yeah. And he's like, it's Carlos. And I was like, holy shit, dude. You look amazing. Like he looked fantastic. You look like he walked out of GQ or something. You know, sometimes you got to follow your heart and that's, you know, you can't, you can't stay somewhere. You don't, you don't feel like you want to be. Yeah. I mean, like, listen, he could have continued being in the band. Who knows where the band would have been had he stayed in. And, you know, that could go either way. It could have been like

they changed sonically in a way that would have, you know, made the world a better place. Or they could have just exploded and never come out with a record again. Yeah, exactly. Like, I think it sounds like it kind of saved the band to like, yeah, yeah. Some of the tension and the disagreements that actually informed the other albums and made them great had gotten, like, it gone too far. It was just like basically dysfunctional. Yeah. And I think that's part of the reason that this is such like an uneven record. Yeah, you know. It is. Like there's two two good songs on it. Yeah. In my opinion. I mean, I know that's kind of a dick move to say, but like I could be honest. Okay. Not every, not every, not every. I actually like none of this album really hits for me. I'll just be honest. Barricade and Lights for me. But they also still play those songs. They have an Azealia Banks feature.

Or she has guest vocals backing vocals on memory serves. I thought that was kind of cool. You can barely hear her. But this is just one fun fact. Carlos gave one interview about why he left in 2015 to a magazine called Bedford and Bowery. Oh my God. was produced by NYU's Arthur L. Carter Journalism Institute. Yes, okay.

And... Love that. Really amazing. He talked about a lot of stuff, but the thing that really... One, he revealed that they were in group counseling. Yeah. Like some kind of monster vibes at the end of, which I loved. I thought that was so funny.

Wouldn't that have been a great... Documentary. Oh, my God. I would have watched that on repeat. The other thought that was really funny was their manager also managed Coldplay. and took them to Saturday Night Live to see Coleplay, and that was the moment for Carlos that he was like, I have to leave the band.

He said, I felt so much titillation and excitement over all the skits, John Hamm was the host, and looking at how they were being performed. And then when Coldplay came on, I felt bored, quite frankly. I knew that there was something going on with me, some kind of identity shift. It really troubled me.

Imagine getting that inspired by Coldplay. Well, uninspired, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, he was just like, I'd rather do skits and act than play music. Yeah. Oh, that was funny. Yeah. And I think also to add to, like, the difficulty with this song or this album is, like, it got

really left field. Like, they're, like, really pushing, I think, the envelope in terms of, like, really far away from kind of the simple, beautiful songs that they were known for and getting into, like, music theory and, like, it's a bit much. It's like a little esoteric cross-year. Yeah, it's a little illegible. It's a little, for me, not my favorite. So Carlos leaves.

They tour the album with David Payho from Slint on bass and Brandon Curtis of The Secret Machines doing keys and vocals. In 2011, David Payho had to just deal with his life and his family. So he's replaced by Brad Truax. Shout out Brad. We love Brad. Interpol opened for the third and fourth legs of U2's 360 tour. Isn't that sick?

They're doing amazing. Yeah. They're big. This is when they took their brief hiatus. It's only two years long. Two-ish years, 2012, 2014. Paul Banks makes another soul album called Banks. Daniel Kessler was writing for a project called Big Noble.

Wait, wasn't it Banks and Steel? That's later. Banks and Steels, which was Eriza. Fucking awesome. Love. No, this is just his second soul album. And everyone was kind of doing their own thing. I really like Sam made a record with Brandon Curtis and Dwayne Denison of the Jesus Lizard.

Very cool. So they were able to sort of like take a breather and like not be an interpull for a second. I wanted to read you a quote from Vice in 2014 by Eric Sunderman. The band's two following releases, 2007s are loved to admire, which was their first major label release, and 2010's self-titled, flopped critically. Carlos left the band in 2010. There were reports they went on hiatus. Interpol moved from being one of the coolest and most heralded bands of the decade

to a music blogger's punchline. More like interlole, am I right? I was not really paying attention. Did that feel true to you? No. Like in 2014, did you feel that they were considered to be in a flop era? No. No.

That's like a thousand percent. Vice's lies. lies all the time. But, I mean, there was, like, stuff maybe earlier on in, like, 2004 and 5 that was, like, kind of moments of punchline with, like, Carlos. Yeah, and the lyrics and stuff. Sarah Ultra Girl does not believe there was a flop era. Eric Sunderman of Vice believes there was.

I wasn't paying attention. Interpol the album did not do well. We can at least say that. So I wouldn't call it their flop era. I would call it, like, a mistake. Yeah, but they're not a punching bag. No. They're not like a punchline, sorry.

I don't remember anyone. I mean, again, I wasn't super paying it in 2014, but I don't remember anyone being like, ha, ha, interpol. Like, I don't remember that being funny. Yeah. I remember I was making fun of plenty of other bands and it wasn't for sure. Like there was never, I mean, maybe no one made fun of them to me because they knew I'd throw.

Sure. You were like, I'm going to throw. I'm going to take my earrings out. Yeah, Savaselene on the cheeks. Well, Elpin. tour is the album they come back with after the hiatus. Which is great. Really good album.

Yeah. This is where I was like, okay, it's kind of, there's a world where they break up after our love to admire. I love to admire. And then I actually have a pretty amazing legacy. Yeah. And then there's a world where like if you soldier on as I think any artistic process or any band, you're going to have lulls.

Yeah. It's impossible not to, you know? I mean, it's not impossible. I'm sure that people are going to like, what about myrr? Yeah. And yes, okay, fine. But, like, sometimes you just, like, you weather a storm. And I'm, you know, there's a vice piece where Paul rates all his favorite, like, his five albums.

And I'm pretty sure he put self-titled last. I mean, I would have. Sure. But doesn't, you know, but thank God, because they kept going, you know, and Elpintor is a great album. It's a great album. So I can't even say that I listened to self-titled more than like a dozen times. And that's fine. A dozen is 11 more than I did.

I had honestly probably maybe put it on one time back then and was like, no, thank you. And then I had never even heard it again until I did this research. Our Love to Admire came out. Like I gave myself, like I listened to it maybe twice and I was like, I'm just not into it. Put it away and then revisited it and was like, I'm going to revisit this record. And it became my favorite. Yeah. So I thought maybe it's possible the same would happen with Interpol self-titled.

It did not. Your heart was open. Yeah. But it did not. But with like El Pintor, I feel like they got their mojo back. They got back in their groove. And they had the lyrics were better, in my opinion. The lyrics are better.

I think they take more not interesting self-the-rayed, but more calculated risks. Like, for example, on My Blue Supreme, the first. falsetto that Paul employs is so unexpected and so awesome and it adds this texture to the song and I think that's a cool risk right but it's not something like so far left to field that people are like I don't know how to access. Yeah. I personally love the song anywhere. I was going through a breakup at the time and the song the guy that I was dating was like feeling really trapped in the relationship and the song kind of helped me see it through his perspective of being in a relationship with me which was I could go anywhere I'm free and I was like are you can you call and I was like where are

the fuck are you um but yeah so that song like kind of um gave me a weird male perspective on things no I like I like it too because I that song in particular because if you know some of the biographical details. I think this is around when Paul Banks started surfing and living on and off in Panama. Yeah. So you get that like, see the ocean. I can go anywhere. It's like, it's like a real surfer mentality of like the endless, you know, endless sea or whatever, which I think is very cool. Also, like, replacing cocaine with surfing is I love it. The man's heroes journey and I'm there for it. I think another thing that is very worth mentioning about this album is Paul starts playing bass because Carlos is gone and they don't get another bass player. They just,

move Paul to bass. Yeah. And so that also kind of shifts the sound, right? Because now he is the one coming up with bass and doing bass lines and like kind of amazing to me that it was like so seamless to just like, be like, oh, I'll just do that, you know? Okay. So I think that we've like done a little bit disservice to Interpol so far.

Yeah. Because we haven't talked enough about Daniel's contributions. It's so true, which is truly kind of the main musical contribution. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he is in a hole. Yeah. And so if like, so with Carlos saying that he, like, you know, with one of, uh, with that song where he said that, um, he was just basically following. Yeah, evil. Evil. Yeah. Following Daniel's kind of groove. Yeah. I could see that Paul being like, all right, I'm going to fucking pick up the base. I think that's from what I read. That's the case on almost every album. Like, Daniel is sort of the fulcrum, like from which everything like, shifts, right? He comes forward with these ideas or chord patterns or whatever, and then

the other people sort of build upon it following his lead. In that sense, you can also blame Interpol self-titles on him. Yeah, yeah. But you can give him the credit for the other ones. I mean, he's like the only, like he's not, I don't want to say the only sober one, because obviously Sam was ish as well. Right. But he's certainly the most driven from what I've pieced together. Yeah. From the stories. He's like the adult in the room. Yeah.

But yeah, so I think that it probably was easy for Paul to just be like, all right, Daniel, like, tell me what to play. I'll do it. Yeah. Or, you know. He actually even said that it was kind of even better because he was able, like, so it was almost a three-part process. Like before I was like, Daniel would come in with his stuff and then he would have to wait for, to see what Carlos would write on bass. And then he would write his second guitar part. vocal sort of going off. But then, you know, it kind of removed one layer because then he's just

like going off of Daniel and being able to like have a more immediate thing with his baseline and his melody. Right, right, right. When was last time you saw Daniel Kessler? Like in, in person? Yeah. I've never seen him in person. I've seen photos. He has not aged. I know. He looks exactly the same. It is the craziest thing. He took a really good care of his skin. Seriously. Yeah. And the full head of Full head of hair. Like, trim. People are taking a picture of Daniel Kessler on an airplane to Turkey and being like, do this please for me.

Wait, what? To turkey to get the hair transplants. Oh. And then the surgeon is like, Rosemary. And then it's like a beautiful moment. You know, it's just like, it's crazy. So he's got this like thing of looking impossibly perfect for all these years. and is basically the backbone of one of the best bands in the world.

You know that man. He has a 10-step skincare routine, and he does work out sunned and cold plunge. I know he's dedicated to himself. So much sunblock. Paul said about this album. With El Pintor, Daniel wrote songs that were immediate and direct, and I wanted to keep them that way. I didn't feel like pulling them off into very experimental directions per se. It's very to the point musically.

I feel like it's refreshing. Like we said, let's write some fucking rock songs. And then he said this other part that I found very touching. We're not in the wrong line of work, you know. We're meant for this. This lasts. Sam's a drummer for life. Daniel's an artist and a writer for life.

I feel like we just keep going and we count our lucky stars that we can keep going and have people come out and see us. If this is what you're meant to do, you wind up doing it 10 years later. And that's what kind of I meant by like weathering that storm. Because I feel like once they get here, then it's like, yeah, you're like, you're lifers. Like, you are 10 years in, you kind of returned to form and you made a great album. And it's like, yeah, okay, Interpol is an enduring band. Yeah, yeah. This album is great. It's great. It's, I mean, is it... I love the last song a lot, twice as hard as one of my favorites, just kind of gets me in a

trans. Yeah, nothing... No one is ever going to be like the fifth Interpol album is my favorite album. Yeah. That's just not how fandom works. And nothing wrong, you know, like, unless, you know what, Unless one of these songs gets picked up on TikTok. Yeah. Because that's like kind of what happened with the strokes. And radiohead. Yeah. We're like, you're like, why is the Strokes most played song on Spotify?

The adults are talking? Wait, are you fucking kidding me? Because of young people and like this resurgence. Anyway, that's, we'll say that for the stroke episode. But yeah, I quite. Can I just say it? Like, I really am not a big strokes person. That's okay.

That's why you're on the interval episode. And I know. Like, so there was like two camps going on in New York. and meet me in the bathroom. Yeah, but it's true. There's like the stroke. It was a real curl jam and Nirvana event. Yes, absolutely.

And I, like, so I'm sure like everyone loves each other, whatever. Yeah. But you were like, I choose Kierkegaard's favorite in triple. Yeah. Anyway, so let's go on. Yeah, so I, yeah, Elpenter, again, I think Paul said it the best, return to form, right? Like, it's straightforward rock songs and they're great. And I do love those like shades of experiment.

what he does with his voice. And I wonder if some of that is from like being able to have the freedom to have made those two soul albums and kind of play around, you know? I think so. Like I feel like when people take that moment away from like their relationship and they can like go back in and with like a whole new sense of wonder and joy. You are ungovernable. I can see that. Then another brief hiatus. Yes.

Actually a bit longer now. Like four years. Yeah. So now it's 2018, and they put out Marauder. It's produced by Dave Friedman, who is the founding basis of the Mercury Rev. He did Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots, Slater Kinney's, The Woods, and MGMT's, Iracular, spectacular. This album is really criticized, actually, for its production. Oh, really?

What do you make of that? Yeah. I mean, I find that, like, so if you really love nothing, which they still play, live. I might have gone a little bit down on the treble with Paul's vocals just a teeny tiny bit.

Yeah. But that's like my main criticism of it. I think is it my favorite record? No, but it has a lot more hit. Like it has hits on it ish. Yeah. I mean...

Yeah. I love Mountain Child. I think it's like quite a sexy song. I really enjoy it. I actually really like parties over, too. Yeah, that song's great. The rover is fantastic. The rover is great. That really cool music video with Evan Moss Bacharach from Girls in the Bear in it, shot in Mexico City. That's such a place where Interpol is massive. The Beatles. Yes. Which is like the best shit ever. Interpol is the Beatles of Mexico City. You know, like, so there's like a lot of Mexican chefs. in L.A. And transitioning from like the music world to the food world has been an amazing experience

because like chefs are obsessed with music. Sure. Mexican chefs. You're hearing a lot of Morrissey up in that kitchen. But Interpol. And Interpol. It makes perfect sense. Absolutely. So you're like I found my people. Interpol. Yes. Interpol is like the new Smiths for Mexico. I love it. Yeah. I think this is very, this is an album of 40-year-old men. Yes. And that's, that is not a pejorative.

That is great. It's like, it's a mature in a different way. You're dealing with different, you know, you're not pining after a girl or like doing a bunch of cocaine. You know, like, this is, we're dealing with different. We're in a vacation. Yeah, just like, it's so different. And like, we're a little politically savvy. You know, they're thinking about maybe bigger topics than partying and girls in sadness and 200 couches.

They opened up their horizon a little bit. The cover of Marauder is this iconic photo of Attorney General Elliot Richardson when he resigned in 73 after refusing President Nixon's orders to fire Special Prosecutor Archibald Cox, who was leading the investigation into the Watergate scandal. Anyway, it's obviously a little like corruption and what's happening in 2018. Yeah. Who's president? Yeah. Just saying. Just saying.

So yeah, I think, again, I think for like a what are we on, what is the sixth album? Yeah, I believe so. Pretty fucking good. It's good. It's good. It's a good album. I don't put it on. I put on a couple of the songs. Yeah. You throw it in a playlist.

Yes. It's actually, there's a couple songs on our playlist that Choccaronda. But there's more songs on the jockaranda playlist from This Mirror Ways a ton. We're about to get there. Yeah. But first we have to deal with the Fine Mess EP in 2019. I actually never listened to that one. It's pretty good.

It's just some B-Sides left off of Marauder. 2022's The Other Side of Make Believe. Oh, yeah, I forgot. Which I actually, I actually really like. I definitely like it better than Marauder. Yes. So I agree with you on that one. I don't love it more than El Pintor, but I like it more than Marauder.

Yeah. And I think that Tony is a great song. Tony is a wonderful song. I love it. Paul Banks said I envisioned it as a little bit of a fever dream, epiphany, hallucination, sunny afternoon drive kind of song. And it totally feels exactly like that. I mean, I think you have flood producing this album. And that's like, you know, this man worked with New Order and you two and fucking 9-inch Nails and like everyone under PJ Harvey, everyone you can think of.

And did also co-produced Samstown by the Killers, which I hear so much Interpol in the Killers. Oh, so I actually have some background about this. So I kind of worked with the killers in the beginning of their career. Amazing. I got credited with discovering them. Whoa. You should have been credited with a bag of money. Yeah.

Well, I turned it down. Oh. You would never believe. I got offered points for finding them. And I was an editor at Spin. And one of my editor bosses said, you can take the points or have, like, credit. Like, what's a, like, be a back, not a backbone. Shit.

Integrity? Integrity. Yes. You can either take money or integrity. and I felt like I was kind of being bullied a little bit about it. Like I was already being... I'm sick. I know.

And I was like, oh, shit, I want integrity and I want to be able to write about this band. Fair enough. You can't, yeah, you can't have it both ways. I should have just taken the money. And quit writing. I mean, like, honestly, I would have... It's an impossible decision. Also, you couldn't have known.

I knew there were going to be... You had a good... You had your finger on the pulse. I told my friend who... ended up signing them, I told him that this was going to be the biggest band he ever signs. He should have at least just given you a bag of money. I agree. I agree. Anyway, so back to the story. So I, so one time, no, not one time. So the killers were obsessed with Interpol. Right. Obsessed. To the point where like Brandon was so eager for for Carlos D to have like,

to listen to his music. Not even anything else. Like this is like around the time that Fuss came out. And so Karen gave Carlos, like, one of their EPs. And I think Carlos said it was good. And Brandon was over the middle. It's funny, because a lot is made of how the strokes launched a thousand ships, right? And, like, you, you know, you hear the stories of how the killer heard the strokes and they wanted to be the strokes or whatever, everyone wanted to be the strokes. But, like, that's just spiritually. That's just like, that's a cool band, right? But musically, I'm so glad to hear you say this because I hear it every time a killer, like a Mr. Brightside comes on in the gym.

I'm like, that's Intraple. Yeah. Like, you can hear Interpol's DNA. Not that they copied it. It's just you can hear the DNA of Intrapole informing that song to me so much. The baseline. Yeah. It's a full-on Interpol base line.

And the feeling of it, the tone, the tenor, the like, yearning, the like, even the vocal delivery. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Totally. That's great. The killers kidnapped me for a few days to go. on tour. I was only supposed to be with them for like a day. And then they made me stay for like a week.

And it was horrendous, actually, if I can be honest. Because I didn't pack any clothes. But in any case, they played this. You didn't shower anyways, but who cares? Yeah, literally. They played this show with Interpol. I don't even remember where it was. I have one of, I have the ticket somewhere. Yeah. And Brandon's like goal was to meet Interpol. Yeah. That's it. And like, sure, we would go out and, like, hang out and party with the strokes, like, cabin or whatever. Totally. But, like, like, permanently a cabin. All they wanted was to be accepted by Interpol.

So it's like you can hang out with this band or you can be accepted by that band. It's so, yeah. And also, just to be clear, I think the killers, I think Hot Fuss is like a masterpiece. Oh, it's amazing. It's an incredible album. And that's, this is nothing to talk down to killers. I'm just like, I love that that was. clearly such an influence.

Oh, yeah. I don't think that that's a bad thing to say. I think they would admit it. Yeah. But also, like, yes, Interpol was an inspiration, but I think that there was like this post-punk scene going on for the people that were creating bands at the time. So, like, they were listening to a lot of, like, Joy Division, Echo and the Bunny Men, gang of four.

Yeah, revisiting this well or whatever. Yeah. I'm always very fascinated also by, like, now looking at the arc of this sort of time, I don't even say genre. And you see that, like, despite how big the strokes and Interpol got, they were lapped by the people that came in their wake that, you know, like Kings of Leon and the killers are much bigger bands. Yeah. Well, I don't know about Kings of Leon anymore, but really? I'm sure. I still think they, like, their cultural imprint.

Like the amount of people that know my sex is on fire. Yeah, that's true. More than anyone that's ever heard at Intraples, I would say. I'm not saying that's a good or a bad thing. I'm just saying it's just a very interesting how like then you kind of can call it like an arc of time in a scene. Because then you have the first people that were a little early. And then you have the people that picked up the mantle and got really big because they were able to strike in that special area where the iron was hot, if you will. That happens a lot, though.

All the time. Yeah. This album, besides the flood of it all, was written, interestingly not in person because it was written during COVID. So it marked the first time they ever, like, kind of did a postal service-esque, you know, writing type thing. Paul Banks was in Edinburgh, Daniel Kessler was in Spain, Sam Fogarino was in Athens, Georgia, and they would, like, email back things. I also kind of love because, like, as we said, Marauder, we're 40. Now we're, like, now we're dads. Yeah, now we're middle-aged.

Well, actually, I don't know. Well, they weren't yet. Maybe Sam. Maybe Sam. Yeah. But we're happy. Yeah, we're in a good place. We're in a good place.

And, like, Tony feels like that. Like, this album feels like a good place. This is an upbeat, happier interval. Yeah. I mean, this is, like, the album title is a good title in that it's like the other side. Yeah. Like their career has been make-believe and now this is the other side where they get to look at happiness or whatever. I love this quote from, it was in the enemy in 2022. Paul said, I've always been a bit of a negative Nelson. I've always had a sense that our civilization is

slightly more tenuous than a lot of people believe it to be. I think for some people it's been very jarring to realize that Mother Nature can come and upend everything that we've built. But I've written about those themes my whole career. He's talking about COVID. This album has a more optimistic, airy, hopeful and enthemic quality at times in any of our previous work. I think it's actually so amazing that like what happened when everyone else was like, okay, the world is ending and no one is caring for each other and we have a global pandemic is a Interpol made a happy year album. I mean, it's not like, yeah. It's on brand, considering that like antics came out after 9-11. So they're like, oh, another tragedy. Let's fucking go. And I think like with perspective,

an age. Like, there is another quote where he's like, I was focusing on the resilience of the human spirit instead, you know, no, imagine all the people celebrity sing along, but like a little bit of that. Could you imagine if like Paul Banks was part of that? Yeah. It goes from Galgado to Paul Banks. Oh my God. Imaginal. Okay, so let's talk about some of the tracks. You said you like Tony. I like into the night a lot also. Something changed is kind of burned into my brain. I love that. I love that. I waited through shame for this is so good. I waited through shame. Burned in my brain.

Yeah, I just, I think this is like overall a very, like, pleasant listening experience. And I don't know if that's what people set out to accomplish with an album, but I quite like it. I think it's, it's an uplifting album. Yeah. And it's joyful. And it's joyful, but it, but it, it still sounds like interval, you know. It's not like such a crazy departure that you're like, who is this? what are they?

Yeah. Although you can sort of tell, though, that they're not in the room together, you know? So there is that, like, disjointedness about it. I mean, it's still a great record, but there is, like, an aspect of, like, they're not a postal service. Right. They're a vibe. Yeah, there are vibes-based, we, energetically. Okay.

2024 is when Interpol plays their historic concert in Mexico City to a crowd of estimated to be a 160,000 adoring, unreal. Obsessed, you know, religious fervor-level interval fans. Yeah. Must have felt so good. Seriously. Imagine being that far in your career, like, you know, we're 1998 to 2024. Unreal.

And then you just have this moment of like, it's kind of like that quote that Paul had, you know, a couple albums ago. It was like, in 2014, they were like, we're lifers. Like, this is what we're meant to do. And then imagine having that 10 years later even expanded upon him blown up more like with this his, I don't know, must have felt just so good. So I saw like videos and photos from that and a lot of the people were so young. Yeah. Which is great. I love it.

I love it. I love it. I mean, music, you know, for the most part, especially rock music, I think, is like it's really time. It can be really timeless, you know, especially because it's also referential, all of it. I don't care what anyone says. All rock music is referential, right? And so you're going to find kids are going to keep finding things and they're going to find Intrapple and then they're going to go back and find Echo in the Bunny Men

or they're going to find something now that's going to lead them back to Interpol. You know, like it's this kind of really, we did it. You know, like, how many bands did I find because I love Nirvana? Yeah, seriously. Hundreds, you know. It's a, sometimes when I'm in a really good moon, I find it to be one of those beautiful things in the world. And then in 2026. Yay.

Against all odds. Against all odds that I placed on my betting table because I do this job and I see how many late career albums are quite bad. Quite bad. And that's okay. Yeah. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I think I don't think that protecting your legacy is what a true artist does. I think a true artist keeps creating, right?

So I love it when bands keep making albums. I don't care if they're not going to be for me, you know. Yeah. But this mirror ways a ton is so good. It is so good. Like, I actually, I held out on listening to it for so long. Yeah. Or not even that long, like a week.

Because you were afraid. I was so scared. Right. I was so scared. And, like, people were talking about how amazing it was. And I was like, you know, like, these are newbies. Like, they don't know what they're fucking talking about. They haven't been stalking Carlos Day at the bodega since day one.

Yeah. They're, like, tourists. And, or they're, like, super redidators. that are gonna say that it's a great album. And I was like, you know what? And then my husband was like, it's a really good album, sorry. You just got to listen to it once.

And I was like, okay, fine. And so I finally did. And I like was so blown away. So blown away. It's actually like unfairly good. If I'm a band that is like consistently or inconsistently together for 20 plus. years, 25, nearly 30 years. And I put out albums and albums and albums and

then I hear this one, I would be so fucking pissed off or inspired. Right. Yeah. It could go either way. I mean, okay, this album is unpartisan who's like killing it with who they're putting on their roster. But I think they did something really smart. And I don't know how like intentional. Well, I think it must have been intentional, which is that they have. added members to the band. Like this whole time, we mentioned Brad Truex and Brandon. And Brandon from Secret Machines who were playing live with the band. But they weren't members of the band.

They weren't contributing to the albums. And on this record, they brought them in as real members. And particularly Brad wrote bass lines on the song. He was a writing and recording member. And I think injecting new blood into, a band that has been working together for that many years is a great way to yield something, you know, that is going to be maybe of a different quality because it's new again. Yeah.

You know? Yeah. It's a whole, it's like. The alchemy is shifted. And they got, you know, Andrew Wyatt is kind of known to be an incredible producer. You know, he used to be the frontman of Mike Snow. And he's worked with, you know, every person under the sun. and for my purpose is very important because he worked on Shallow from a Star is Born, which is a really amazing song.

Oh, oh. Shal-la-la-la-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l. It's really good. Andrew Wyatt had worked on Banks and Steals. Yeah, the hip-hop record, yeah. That Paul did with Derrisa on a song they did with Florence Welch called Wild Seasons. So they had become friends. He was great friends with Brad, Truex, and he – so basically they all became friends, and they were like, oh, well, let's work with a producer that's like our friend and based in New York City.

And Paul said it was such an interesting dynamic to be friends with the producer. When it works, it's a real sweet spot of having a bandmate for the moment who has all this guru wisdom about how to make great sounding records. So I think Andrew Wyatt had a great part to play because prior to this, they had been kind of producing their own albums. So they brought back in a producer to kind of like, it's all kind of new energy, right? Well, I mean, like they haven't, they, I mean, they were working with Flood. Oh, yes, Flood, of course, of course. Sorry, we just talked about this. Yeah. But that being said, clearly they, I mean, there is a pressure when you're working with someone like Flood who is like made these like superstar albums. Yeah, Flood's not your friend. Yeah. Flood is Flood. Flood worked with Nick Cave, you know. Yeah, great point. I think it probably was very different. Again, I was not in the room. And then this is the album that Paul Banks is a dad now.

Yes. That's also a whole level of, you know, he said that becoming a father feels like new lights came on inside my soul that make me a fuller version of myself. In life, sometimes we guard a little bit how much love we put out because it's quite vulnerable to love. I may in particular have been such a person who didn't all the way open up. When I had children, it's like, oh, my God, this is all the love that my soul is capable of creating. Oh! I know. We've come a long way from the subway as a porno, is all I'm saying.

We have. Yeah. And that's like the fucking sweetest thing. Oh my God. Iron City is such a beautiful song to me. Like I just love, I love it. I love that they're tackling ideas about like humanity and AI, you know? Yeah.

I just think it's a really cool song. I love Sudden. I mean, the whole album is pretty great. Like there's not like tracks that I'm like got to skip this when it sucks. So rides the reindeer is one of my favorites, even the actor. God tier title, So Ride the Reindeer. Yeah. Yeah.

Ever the actor I was listening to before coming here and it's so freaking beautiful. Right back to I make money like Fred Astaire about like 2026 version, you know. It really is because, I mean, like the whole concept of taking on a persona and like pretend or like just even pretend. to feel a certain way just so you can like get get to another. I think we all can relate to that. Oh, for sure. For sure. Bird and the serpent, I love so much.

A great. Three shot certainty. We're back to the threes. Yeah. I wonder what the fuck is up with the threes. Well, three is my favorite number too. It's such like a, it's such a mythical number, you know, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Yeah.

Like so much of like witchcraft is based in threes. Like three is a very holy number. Yeah. I parked on the third level here And I was like, I'm not going to forget that Because it's number three It's number three Yeah

Good things come in threes Bad things come in threes The whole thing It's a powerful number But yes, so this album Probably my Or you rank it in your Top

In your top In your type Top 5 God that's fucking hard I'm really sorry You don't have to do it I don't believe The Ranking Things so

Okay Our Love to Admire number one. Okay. Wow. Yeah. Followed by antics. No, wait.

Turn on the bright lights. Then antics and then this one. Okay. Yeah. This one will always be four because it's the one that I've lived with the least. Totally. I mean, I don't want to be crazy. Like a 2026 album is never going to knock out, turn on the bright lights on my list.

But it wowed me for sure. Absolutely. Like, it literally didn't have to be this good. They could have, like, recorded another. album had like a couple songs that were really good, were pretty good, decent, anything that would allow them to continue touring if they wanted to. Right, which is the function of putting out new albums for bands in this day and age, you know. Yeah. And yet they put this record out and I could see this being a situation in which people are like, you know what, I'm okay getting this record front to

back. Like, I've heard you play every other record for the past 20 years. Yeah. And consistently. Totally. The set list hasn't changed that much. Because they give people what they want. They do. But this album, I think that people would be like, you know what? We can do a tour on this album. Yeah, I think real fans who are not just like, you know, legacy, interested in legacy songs, I think would be into this. It reminds me a lot. This is always my comp because how much it blew me away, which was the last cure album. Oh.

Which was so incredible. And like when I went and saw them play on that tour, I was happy to hear the song because they're so. beautiful. And that's usually not common. Like usually like you go to a, you know, a band that you love 20 years ago when you go to their concert off a new album. You're like, hope it's just like two songs. Yeah, exactly. Which is terrible. I'm so sorry. But fans are the worst. I saw like, like, my husband and I went to go see placebo. And this was like a couple years ago at the Greek theater. And we were so annoyed because they didn't play any of their old songs. They played everything off like the new two albums. And I was like, again, they're right. But you know, why? Why? They're not good albums.

Let's split the difference. Okay. You know, let's give some for me, some for you. Yeah, fair, fair. And, like, I can understand maybe they're bored of playing those songs, but, like, Interpol clearly are an amazing band that can consistently play most of the same songs for 25 years. But this album, I think, is one that will rank up there in terms of their catalog. I think so, too.

It's like absolutely top four. Yeah, it's really beautiful. Yeah. I'm even happy to erase the rest of the catalog. Well, let's not do the other side of, you know, make-blood. No, I love them so. Obviously, I love them so much, but yeah. Sarah, thank you so much for spending this time with me.

Thank you. You were such a wonderful guest, such a wonderful proponent of Entropole. Thank you. And thank you to producer Rob, our editor, Adrian. Thank you our video producer Jacob. And thank you. Come back next week for a new episode of Bandsblame. I'm a little butt like that.

Can I get some fries with that shake, shake, booty? Looks to kill you would be a new shotgun. Bang. What's up with that? Yeah, it's here. Sorry, sorry. It's right here. Sorry.

It's never going away.