Bandsplain - Judgment Night Soundtrack with Sean Fennessey and Rob Harvilla

Episode Date: June 15, 2023

It wasn’t the future of rap, but it was the future of rock. In 1993, one of the strongest music years in popular memory, a quirky soundtrack was released that ended up eclipsing the movie it was made for. Perennial Bandsplain favorites Sean Fennessey and Rob Harvilla join us to talk about what led to this moment, and what followed. Follow Sean Fennessey on Twitter @seanfennessey Follow Rob Harvilla on Twitter @Harvilla Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You can listen to This Blue Up on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. anyway I don't get it Can you please explain Wait like Bansplain To Bandsplain I am your host Yossi Solic This is usually a show where I invite

an expert guest on to help me explain a cult band Or iconic artist But today, this is a show Where we are unpacking a soundtrack Today's episode Is about the soundtrack to the film Judgment Night If you've never heard

anything off the Judgment Night soundtrack. You're just another victim, babe. More people have definitely heard this soundtrack than seen the 1993 action thriller starring Emilio Estevez, Cuba Getting Jr., Jeremy Piven, Stephen Dorf, and Dennis Leary. Not to be all, nobody knows who directed Casablanca, but that's later down in my note,

so I'm sorry I can tell you right now who directed it. My guest today are two of the most important men in my life, you guys. My boss father, Sean Fennessey, and my friend father, Rob Harville, welcome to the show dads. Hi. Well, actually, we are really dads too. I know.

We are. Just not to you specifically, but yes. But you are, you are dads. As far as I know. Spiritually. Why are you? Why are you? Right off the top.

I got to go, guys. Sorry. We got a conflict. Okay. Wow. Hi. Hi. I'm so excited to be with you here to talk about this thing that

I know it was near and dear to both your hearts. How did you land on this? I was curious. That's a good question. What drove you to explore this with Rob? Damn, consummate podcaster over here. I'm just taking the reins. Well, I, as you guys know, every once in a while,

I need to do a bit of a shorter episode from Missianity. And I, you know, I hit up my friend father, Robert Barbilla, and I was like, let's do a soundtrack episode. What soundtrack would you like to do? and I was a little bit hoping he'd say City of Angels, but he's at Judgment Night, which I'm also totally on board with. I too love this soundtrack,

and that's how we landed here. And then that's a little, I think he doesn't fall in the father category, but my friend, mentor, John Caramonica, was supposed to be on this episode, but he's the busiest man alive. He far exceeds Joe Biden

and his responsibilities, and he could not make it today. He's just a sleeper. You don't have to be nice about it. John is asleep as we are talking. John is asleep and dreaming about Big L right now. And as has been the case for roughly the last 15 years,

if John is not available, I'm here. There we go. So if you're looking for a carbon copy of a Xerox of a carbon copy, you've got one. Well, as usual, I'm trying to ingratiate myself to you as my boss. So I'm, I was like, oh, Sean likes this. Perhaps he would want to be involved. Wait, white guys screaming.

over rock while listening to Wu-Tang-style songs. I'm interested in that. Geez. Yeah, I mean, famously, you love Rage Against the Machine. I do. Playing against Type. I do love Rage Against Machine. So, a funny thing about that is that you guys both host wonderful music podcasts.

Oh, man. Thank you. On a radio podcast network. And you both asked me to be on your podcast in the past. In both times, I've said, let me talk about Rage Against the Machine. And both times you've said no. Now that's... And so here we are.

I don't remember explicitly rejecting that. Yeah. Here's your, here's your time to shine. Yes, I know, right? I mean, we're gonna, there's no way, there's no way, well, you thought I was going to do this without a little history and backstory. You're sadly mistaken. But before we get into all of that, why don't we talk a little bit about the movie? I hadn't seen it in literally over two decades. What about you guys? I know we all watched it yesterday or whatever over the weekend to prep. Well, what time is it?

I saw this movie for the first time 14 hours ago. First of all, are you aware of the fact that the only way to stream judgment night? Voodoo for $10.99. I own Voodoo. I own two movies on Voodoo. This is the King of Staten Island. I have no idea what that was about. I can watch this movie anytime I want.

Sean may personally be approving the expense report. Absolutely. Sean will be slapping that approval button. that I bought this fucking movie for 1099. That is so weird. I saw this movie for the first time 14 hours ago. I was, I,

I owns it. Sean owns it on Blu-ray. Oh, I almost bought the Blu-ray off Amazon just to have the physical object, right? Like, it's a very pleasing looking cover. But then I was like,

no, no, no, thank you. I did acquire it for this conversation. Oh, I thought it was like just part of your, I was going to say, I thought your permanent collection.

No, I'm not a, I'm not a Stephen Hopkins completist, so I didn't have this purpose. You don't have a predator too. Also, on Blu-ray? I do have

Predator, too, actually. I would have, yeah. You're on your way to being a Stephen Hopkins completely. I also have

a nightmare on Elm Street 5 in my personal collection. So I'm just, I'm actually building out the Hopkins wing of my Blu-ray collection,

but I was happy to acquire this because I hadn't seen it in a long, long time either. But this was in heavy rotation in the 1990s

on late-night HBO. So I've seen this movie. Oh, really? Many times, yes. Do you think it's because it was low cost for HBO

to license that? It's certainly possible. In lieu of... It was a big flop, right? Yeah, so let's talk about it. So basically Stephen Hopkins had done Predator 2 with Barry Gordon and Joel Silver.

They were at the time partners shortly after they had a very bitter split. Barry Gordon started his own production company called Largo. You might be familiar. And Judgment Night was the, I think, the first film to come out of that. Here's a fun fact.

They had been wanting to make... This is a quote from Stephen Hopkins. They'd actually been wanting to make this film for a long time. and there were all sorts of scripts. I don't know what that means. I thought this film would mean that it had the script, but they just wanted to make a film like this, I guess.

And so they were entertaining all sorts of scripts until they landed on this Warren Peace level script by Lewis Collick, who also wrote several other movies that I have not seen. Unlawful Entry with Kurt Russell and Ray Leota. Bulletproof, haven't seen it. Damon Wands, Adam Sandler, and James Sandler, and James. also terrific film um october sky which is the true story of homer hicka mccolminer's son who was inspired

by the first sputnik launch to take up rocketry against his father's wishes lovely movie breakout jake jillen hall keep jo this guy's an absolute star keep going wow the one thing i have seen of his is he wrote one episode of three's company where terry goes out with a soap opera star and jack catches him at a restaurant with another woman that i've seen 1983 that's the one thing you've seen wow i was really me and my family were brilliant to three's company. My dad likes a slapstick comedy. Sure. Yeah. That's lovely. A titan of film is what you're saying. Yes. Yes. It costs $21 million to make judgment night. It grossed $12,136,99 of the box office. And as of today, it has 35% on a lot of rotten tomatoes. Hmm. Did Ebert like it? The first thing I do when I watch a movie from any era when he was doing it was like, did Roger Ebert like it? And I couldn't find.

I think he even weighed in, babe. I think he was like, actually, I don't get out of bed for a judgment night. Hard pass. Yes, that's too bad. I went looking and I didn't see an eager view, which is a bad sign. Honestly, it is a bad sign. So this is the story of four men. Family man, Frank, played by Emilio Estevez, his good pals Ray and Mike.

Ray is played by Jeremy Piven. Mike is Cuba Gooding Jr. Fresh off, um, Poison in the Hood. Is that right? Yes. Um, and Frank's younger brother, John, an extremely hot Stephen Dorff and they go in a weird

RV to see a boxing match in downtown Chicago, but they never quite make it because hijinks ensue. I don't know if these hijinks. These are a little too grim to be hijinks. Yeah, but the way they were presented felt hijanky to me, no?

It is, it is funny that when they're on the highway and they back up the RV for the hijinks to ensue, freak mama starts playing. Like, that is the ideal soundtrack. to backing up an RV on the freeway in Chicago. I did. That was a great soundtrack moment right there.

So the bad guy is Dennis Larry is the main bad guy. Crime boss. We never understood what like what his crime racket is. Exactly. Some kid stole a wad of cash from him. And that's a rule of his. You can't steal from him. And his number two man is played by that extremely like known creepy character actor,

Peter Green. And then one everlast of House of Pain plays another minion, the mustache bad guy. Crucial role. The mustache guy. An incredible assortment of dickheads, all three of those guys. I love all three of those guys. I'm just saying out loud. The fourth guy was good, too, who was kind of hot.

I can't remember his name. He had like a sort of a bob. And he gets drowned in the sewer. Yeah, that guy. He's just like, this is a bad idea. Like, he's like the audience surrogate, right? It's like, what are we doing? Like, this is a, we follow them into the sewer.

I'm not going down the sewer slide with you, Dennis. There's a lot of like suspension of disbelief here for me where I'm like, okay, this crime boss has time in his busy crime boss schedule to like clear the slate and follow these men around. It's very hands on. Yeah. You know, no one works for you? You can't. You have the man's app.

First of all, you have the man's wallet and address. You couldn't have just waited for him to go home and then come in the middle of the night and kill them. I thought that was going to be the last 10 minutes of the movie is like Emilio, at home and Dennis Larry's there. Dennis Larry says a few things and then Emilio shoots him. That's what I thought was going to happen. I can't believe that didn't happen. I agree with you.

Yeah. Everlow said, I think the producers are the ones that wanted me to action the movie. In fact, I know that because the director hated me. It was the most ridiculous movie ever, dog. Two Gs and dog.

That's very important. Also, I love DJ Mugs, who by the way, whose real name is Lawrence Muggerud. Did you know that? No. Muggerud. He said they actually asked me to be in judgment night, and I never went to the reading.

I didn't care, man. They only wanted to give me $50,000 to do this movie, and I was getting $25,000 a remix, and I was doing a remix or two a week. And he also mentioned that he doesn't like sitting around on movie sets, which is totally relatable. Is this where I say how much I love DJ Mugs as well? That's right. DJ Mugs is like the underrated maestro of 1990s hip-hop. I mean, he's not famous, really.

is a member of Cyprus Hill But he is amongst certain circles Like ourselves Yeah, yeah But I don't think he's kind of broadly famous And certainly not recognizable I'm not even sure he'd be recognizable The three of us

But I feel like this movie doesn't happen without him Sir, Everlast could be standing directly in this Zoom And I wouldn't recognize him either That doesn't mean I don't respect him In 1994 I definitely would recognize Nowadays, I'm not so sure Taft high legends My other favorite Everlast quote is

the director hated me because I would constantly say shit like, yeah, four guys who are walking around Cabrini Green in Chicago acting like they run shit. This is realistic. I do enjoy how much Everlast hates this record. He hates the movie. It's very funny. He loves the record. If you watch judgment,

I shot a lot more than what I'm in in that movie. And I don't care because it's a piece of shit. The best thing about that movie is the soundtrack. He is not wrong. Unfortunately, now is the time where I have to go through with you guys, the history of rap and rock. We got to get to that immediately then. Please. That's why we're here.

Well, Sean, sending a 9 p.m. email back to my beautiful email about, I don't want to spoiler, in Arsenio Hall appearance, saying that this is the blueprint. I was like, babe, the blueprint? This is not the blueprint. We have a lot more to talk about prior to this to blueprint out this situation. Okay. Okay. Fire you. I mean, feel free to fire away on the history of rap and rock colliding because Lord knows I was there. there for every step of the way. All right. 1984,

Run DMC gets their video, Rock Box, aired on MTV. I'm joke. I like sound like I'm joking. This is actually massive because MTV being the literal beacon of culture for all young people, like I was remembering that

some of the first physical media of music I owned in elementary school were casings of, rap songs. And that was like 10. Because it was because through this MTV dispersion, it was so in popular culture by that point that, you know, if you're like a precocious 10 year old that's into music and watching MTV, you're going to run out and buy nothing but a G thing on a Kasingle or Chris Cross Jump Jump also. Great song. Equally great songs. I think I owned both of them on Kasingle actually. That's what I'm saying. Fibing $1.99, affordable

from my allowance. It was a win-win. 1986, run DMC and Aerosmith do Walk This Way. Thank you, Richard Rubin. Iconic song. Iconic meetup. Did you guys have an IRL in time experience with Walk This Way, Run DMC with Harrismith? I think

because of my age, I was told how important that song was before I got to understand by John Caramont. Enjoy it. Not quite but close. No, but certainly why someone like him on a VH1 clip show

circa 1990. Sure. And then this incredible fusion something no one thought could ever happen. A white act and a black act got together and they wrapped and sang together.

And I was like, all right. I mean, this is not that weird guys. Everybody settled down. But I guess because it was successful and everyone felt the need to proclaim its importance.

Right. I mean, it does slap. We can't lie about that. Yeah, it's great. In 1987, perhaps less notable, fat boys did a collaboration with the Beach Boys on the song, Wipeout. That was very important to me. When I was nine years old, I was a big.

I don't think I own the Kisingle, but I wanted to own the Kisingle. And that's basically the same thing. The video is absolutely mental if you haven't watched. It's hilarious, yes. Also very appealing to a nine-year-old. Totally. But then the Fat Boys also did a collaboration with like Chubby Checker. or something.

It is. A twist. The twist. The fat boys were trying to cash a check, bitch. They were like, you know what.

And they did. And they did. God bless. Okay. Then in 1990, the gathering of the tribes happened. This, I feel, is also really important.

The gathering of the tribes was a two-day music festival in two different locations put on by Ian Aspery of the cult and Bill Graham. And the lineup was Soundgarden, iced tea, Indigo Girls.

Queen Latifah, Joan Baez, Steve Jones, Michelle shocked, Iggy Pop, the cramps, and public enemy. Imagine? I'm imagining that backstage, like, just that basketball game, right? Like, that's, that is a wild picnic area situation right there. It's so sick, and this is pre-Lollapalooza. So this is very much, like, the first thing that, like, at, like, a cultural event, literally, the clock struck 1990. and they were like here, come see public enemy, sound garden, ice tea, the cramps. Like, so cool.

It lost money, though. But then Lalapalooza came out the next year. Similar sort of mixture, Jane's Addiction, Susie, Living Color, Nine Inchdale's. This is where Ice Tea debuts body count. Butthole servers and Rollins band. And the Violent Femmes, is that the one where the Violent Fems are on? And it's always very funny to me that they didn't get just beating. up every day by like everyone else.

Okay. It might have been 92, but still. Still, still holds. Also, okay, I want to ask you guys, were you like early Cypress Hill fans? Why are you laughing? I don't know why I'm a, I, I, I, the hits, you know, like MTV as Sean, as you say, like MTV is enormously important and I love anything that MTV puts in front of me. And like, I remember the walk this way video very specifically and like it's such a broad gesture

you're the knocking down of the wall between the studio. Like, as Sean said, it's such a corny thing now, like a rap, a rappers and rockers together. Like, it's not a, that's a normal thing. But it was actually an abnormal thing if you were me at the time, right? Like, it's very hard to convey how revolutionary that could sound to like a suburbanite preteen. Also to like the fan base of Aerosmith in the 80s. You know what I mean? Like, it's not like now.

where like the crossover is so huge between who listens to hip hop and who listens to rock R-A-WK. Like that was that was a big deal. Yeah. It wasn't. It wasn't. I mean, not to get too pointy-headed about it, but, you know, what's Elvis, right? Elvis is, you know, country, country and western. Not black people invented rock music.

No, no, no, no, that's what I was going to say. No. But like, more specifically, one of the reasons why Elvis became Elvis's Elvis was like country and R&B. Right, right. Like, it was the collision of those two things and admiration for black artists and collaborating with black artists sometimes. And so it's not like, I don't know, like in the history of American popular music, it's basically that story going back and forth over and over again,

which is why I think it's kind of funny the way that publicly that song was marketed and then leads to this like 15, 20 year period of at first excitement and then deep emotional hand-wringing from folks like us about what they did to American popular music when they kind of killed it for this like five year period. I just, I feel like in like what you're saying totally makes sense, but culturally like past the music part of it, like aesthetically signifier wise, it had these like rap and hip hop and rock had gone such far different directions, right? And like you have a man in a scarf and some tight pants over here and you have,

you know, run DMC looking cool as hell in jerseys. and bigger pants. My read on that was always that that was a product of places like MTV and record labels, like purposefully stratifying genre, you know, like purposefully marketing to reach as many people as possible by saying like, this is for these people and this is for these people. And like over that period of time, they like chop up genres even more finely to continue to sell to people who are allowed to kind of identify with them. So by the time you get to 1985 or 1987, you're like, I'm a rap fan or I'm a rock fan.

I listen to this music or that music. and then this does feel in a way like kind of like them junking that and saying like it all fits together you know and that's like the rise of electronic music and eventually like literally girl talk like stuff like that and you know like fat boy slam

why would you bring gold talking about my podcast I just think that's an interesting arc it was definitely my perception in the late 80s that no one would watch both yo MTF wraps and head bangers ball, right? Like, I agree with Sean's point that they were stratified on purpose and you were sort of told you were this kind of person or this kind of person.

But I also agree with Sean that insane in the membrane is the heartbreak hotel of our generation. Absolutely. That's just a fact. I'm really right there with you. Insane of the membrane, that should fucking go. It does. If you haven't listened to it in a while, I need you guys to back in and put that up.

I was thinking back to like why it was so. resonant amongst rock fans too. And it's because it has like a red hot chili peppers energy. Like it's not that different from, you know, um, give it away now or whatever, like energetically. No, am I wrong? No, I think you're 100% right. It's a great gateway drug to rap for rock fans. And I think you're right that the red hot chili pepper is the exact step before that, right?

You go from red hot chili peppers to how I could just kill a man. You know, Cypress Hill are a great first rap band to be into. Totally. Or how's the pain also? I mean, the way the Kisingle of Jump Around was, I wore that shit to death. Yes. It also appeals to children. I think that there's something about the way that those songs are pretty,

the way Muggs produces songs. I mean, he's just really into 60s and 70s rock and is just looping guitar solos and looping like 50s R&B songs in a way that is very accessible if you were a fan of those those songs. Plus, Be Real has like maybe the single greatest voice in rap history. And Senduk sounds like he's in Slayer. I mean, like, you know, the vocal tones of those two guys, I think are very familiar to rock fans. So it makes sense. Okay. Well, Cybersill starts in 1988, and this is a good place to start our story, because Happy Walters, who is basically the architect of the Judgment Night soundtrack. Great name. Great, amazing name, amazing name. He grew up in

Indiana. He was really into like R.m., the Smiths, et cetera, starts getting into hip-hop, moves to L.A. goes to a Cypress Hill show in Huntington Beach. DJ Muggs has a Michigan tank top on, and he had just graduated from Michigan Happy Walters. So he goes up and says, hey, I should manage you. And DJ Muggs is like, hmm? And he's like, yeah, I went to Michigan. I don't understand this story. I'll be honest with you.

It's a big time thing. It's giving judgment night. Stay out of it. No, yeah. It's not making sense. Something's not checking out here. Like part of the story has been removed, but. Happy is in the RV at this time.

But anyways, I guess that's how he starts managing Cypress Hill. And then he starts managing through Cyprus Hill, like his House of Pain. Booja Tribe, I have to just slide them in here, also starts in 1989 in Carson. And Booja Tribe is also doing something sort of different. right with their music. Who wants to speak to that? Which deep rap fan of the two of you wants to speak to that? I know Sean be having thoughts about Booja tribe.

I defer to Sean on this topic, absolutely. Sure. I can't claim to be the biggest booya tribe fan in the universe, but they're a Samoan rap band. I think that more or less describes it. They're from California. They're from Carson, right by my hometown of Torrance. They sort of harmonize and have a kind of,

deeply rhythmic, um, past the mic circle style of rap. Um, and I play live instruments. I was going to say they're known for their live instrumentation, uh, which was unusual at the time. Our friend Chris Wine Garden, who did a great Rolling Stone, uh, oral history on the judgment night soundtrack. I like how it's Faith No More in Buyah tribe, right? On that there, the song on that. And Mike Patton from Faith No More says, As mean as they look, they were super sweet.

So he got the Buiyad Tribe get the Mike Patton seal of approval as dudes and as artists. Also, do your guys as a self a favor and Google the album covers of the Buryat Tribe because they're absolutely mental and amazing. They're so good. They look like bootlegs, but they're not. That's the real album covers and they're incredible. Okay. House of Pade.

House of Pade very important here. Back to Sean's 9 p.m. Midnight in Ohio time email. That I did. I emailed first of all. You started it. I didn't expect anyone to write back. I simply wanted it to be in your inbox of the morning.

Rob wrote back after I did on Ohio time. I was like, you didn't need to get a life. Okay, but then you said, here's the blueprint. It was House of Pain. What was it? Shamrocks and shenanigans? What's this one called?

Yeah, it is. Oh my God. I thought that was a joke. Shamrocks and shenanigans, remix by Butch Fakes. Now, this happens first of all I needed to point out that Everlast went to iconic valley high school taft with ice cube that's a and he was like around and straight out of confidence being made this is in the oral history

but the other thing that really struck me was that um Danny boy of House of Pain was a huge hugely into punk and grunge in fact House of Pain was Danny Boy's band's name his punk band's name that they like co-opted into being House of Payne, which is how that remix came about because he was a huge Nirvana fan. And, you know, one plus one, butch, butch-fit. House of Pain is, um, is considered, I guess, a Los Angeles act, even though I think that they were understood to be like an East Coast act. I think most people thought they were from Boston. Boston. It was because of the Irishness and also, I'm not here to like docs anyone, but DJ Lethal's

real name is Lear and he is Labian. You're doing a lot of doxing today, he is not Irish. I mean, House of Pain, what an incredible moment of identification for a young, rap-loving loser from Long Island, such as myself, and lo and behold, Everlast,

born on Long Island, and moved to Los Angeles, just like myself. Also, Sean Fennessee, that is giving a luck of the Irish leprechaun. I mean, for sure. Extremely Irish name. Yeah, if you could see my skin tone right now,

you'd understand how deep it runs. Luminous. Oh, yeah. Appalessant. House of Pain are great. Like, I feel not complicated about this. They were a great act. The first two and a half albums, I think, are fantastic.

In part because of DJ Mugs. DJ Mugs, the guy who made the Cybersale songs, made the House of Pain songs. Okay, Sean Financing is going to come on Bansplain and do the DJ Mugs episode. Yes, we do that. I agree with you. Zero, nothing but respect for my House of Pain. Also, I must mention 1991 anthrax and public enemy do that version. of Bring the Noise.

That's also important in our mapping and history. Because right, because Bring the Noise had name-checked Anthrax. I'm trying to think, but that sounds right. But yes, that was a big deal. Wax is for anthrax. Still, it can rock bells. There we go.

This is where I learned that I think Rock the Bells came from the song, right? The music festival of the thing, no? I think that came from the L-Cool-J song, Rock the Bells. I have to go. Okay. Well, that was very cool. and basically what happens here is that Chuck D. was looking at Melody Maker in 1987. As he does.

As he does. And the first page had the Monsters of Rock Festival. And in the picture, it was Scott, Ian of Anthrax wearing a public enemy shirt. Isn't that beautiful? Isn't that beautiful? We're almost done. We're almost done with the history of rap and rock meeting up together. 1991, I said body count came out.

1991, also Sean Fantasy's favorite band, Rage Against Machine forms. 1992, the second lollapalooza. This is meaningful because this is where Cyprus Hill and Pearl Jam become friends. Another great basketball. That is cute. Cute is the exact word for that, actually. To me, it's adorable.

That they were like, we became bros. And then in November of 1982, the first rage album comes out. Okay, now we're at judgment night. Okay. So I'm presuming it's because they were trying to cast Everlast and DJ Mugs into the movie that Happy Walters gets involved. Does this feel right to you guys?

It does. I think so. But I mean, Happy, maybe this was the start of something with Happy Walters' label and management company. But he goes on to do this like many more time. times. And because, you know, he's a really interesting person. Only he only did it two other times in the exact same structure. Right, right. But he like music supervised and kind of like clearly, Sven Ghalied a lot of soundtracks over the years. Also, I'm so sorry, not to like have

the feminism reenter my body, but erased from a lot of this is his partner who was Amanda Demi, Ted Demi's widow now, um, who was like one of the coolest women on the the planet who was like a New York City light nightlife door girl turned like you know she would promote underground hip-hop shows at car wash in the lower east side and she booked like kRS 1 leaders in the new school africa bombada so she started the management company with happy walters and she also is executive producer on the judgment night soundtrack so just no Amanda demi erasure on my watch well that's part of a lineage too because ted rip was one of the co-founder's of YomTV raps and was one of those fusion people who brought a lot of this stuff to basically suburban

white culture by making that show one of the most important things on MTV. It was all her. Well, it was a group effort here, but I'm just saying it wasn't just Happy Walters. But anyways, yes, they're like, let's do this. But really, the whole idea, according, and you guys read this, according to the oral history, came from Everlast. And nobody seems to dispute that, that he said, okay, I'll be in your stupid bad movie, but here's what we need to do. Let's do some teaming up of rap and metal and make music. Watching this movie for the first time, what struck me is that this is a movie that doesn't understand that its soundtrack is going to be its only legacy.

100%. Like, this is a movie that doesn't particularly like its soundtrack. Like, I'm a big aficionado of, like, the ways that movies from this era, it's where it's shoehorn the soundtrack into it, right? Like the bad guys from the crow, like, drive around listening to Stone Temple pilots or whatever. He's like, all right, fine. But like, there's so little of that in this movie.

Like, there's a handful of scenes where they like pass a door or like a party or whatever where it's one of the songs is playing. But the soundtrack isn't incorporated into the movie with the exception of de la soul and teenage fan club, which is at the beginning and the end. And in the middle somewhere.

Someone knew that was the best song because they put it in three times. But it's the function of that song and the movie is to represent suburbia, right? Like it's, this is, these are the corny dudes who don't realize what they're in for. And this is what they're listening to. I always found it funny that the, the majority of the songs that you hear either from, as you said, Doorways and Cabrini Green, right, I can't start listening to like, Booja tribe and Dinosaur Jr., which makes sense.

Sure. played diagetically inside the RV. So that means that this RV, that Jeremy Piven's character, has negotiated into borrowing to take a client out, is fully loaded with the soundtrack to the film that he's starring in. Incredible. Incredible points.

And shout out to that RV seller who, I guess, invented rap rock. What are we supposed to believe that? It was Everlough. That was actually Amanda Demi, who owned that RV lot. She's just everywhere. She's everywhere. Okay, so basically, Happy Walters.

Everless has the idea. Happy Walters is like, okay, he's doing his manager thing. I'll handle it. I loved that the part, did you catch the part where he said, when he was going on to managers, a couple of them were like, what? And so I bribed them. I said, okay, I'm going to send you a Rolex.

You make sure your band does this. Did you catch some? I caught that. I didn't know Rolexes were a common currency in the mid-90s soundtrack boom, but I guess that shouldn't surprise me. I'm still waiting on my first. Can you please do this for me, Rolex? When am I going to get bribed in that fashion?

I think it's you who would be bribing us at this space. That's right. Can I please do the rage against the machine episode? Be the change you want to see in the world. Yeah, exactly. You would have done rage against a machine. You get a Rolex. You get a Rolex.

If we're being, I'll even settle for a cardiac tank. It's cheaper. All right. Let's get into it. Here are the people who said no, before we get into the actual songs. Al Jorgensen, Al Jorgs, he was busy. Doing well, I don't know, but he was busy.

Happy Walters really wanted Kurt Cobain. I was trying to picture that and could not. I mean, yeah. Given that it's 93, I'm not really sure that was like the time to go ask Kurt Cobain anything. Not a great headspace. Yeah. But I can see him being like, yeah, not right now. Ask me next year.

Metallica said no. Not surprising to anyone, according to Happy Walters. They were super pure and prissy in those days. Coincidentally, Metallica was the reason that Lollapalooza stopped. in 96. Because they were too commercial that they sort of blew it up. The booking of Metallica, like, broke Lollapalooza because everyone was real big mad. They were like, we don't want this.

And it didn't come back until 2003. I would say that Lollapalooza and Cypress Hill's success of Lollapalooza is probably a big reason why this movie happened too. Yes. Why the movie happened or the soundtrack? The soundtrack and everything altogether, you know, mugs getting cast and all that stuff. Totally. I feel like that that, the fact that they were a huge draw on that bill in, what was it, 92?

That feels like a pretty, yeah, pretty critical part of those too. I think there are videos of ice tea playing with Jane's addiction as well, like on stage. That was 91, yeah. Right. And so that's, yeah, Lalapalooza is a major factor here, absolutely. And then Hoppe said, happy. He said, I wanted public enemy, but they were like, nah, because they were fighting. It was a weird thing at the time.

They were, Professor Griff was saying, you know, crazy anti-Semitic stuff. Kind of a transitional period for public enemy there. transitioning transitioning to what yeah is an uglier question yes tom morello of rage against the machine was really into it but then they never did it I guess

it was more the tool side that flaked so tool was supposed to do it but they didn't submit their collaboration that bummed me out I would have liked to have heard that so I don't understand this like this is obviously important to me because this is where rage comes in right so Rage and Tool recorded a song together

there's not a lot of rapping on the song the song can be heard the song is on YouTube it's called Revolution it definitely sounds like Tool and Raging Against the Machine trying to figure out how to play together it's not bad it's not good

especially given like what both of those bands were at the time like they were both really those were some powerful ass bands but I'm kind of mad at Tool being like F this like we deserve of a mastered version of this song. And I don't even, I'm fascinated by who leaked it, how it got out into the world. Like, because they really didn't want it, they really didn't want it to get out.

That was the story. It's not even on any like B-side, like, reissue action. Like this is a, like, streaming. An illicit, okay, it's an illicit YouTube situation. Okay, that is a drag. Because Maynard is on the first Rage Against the Machine album for like 15 seconds, I think. That was what we could have had, but we didn't get. Okay, first song, let's fucking get into it.

helmet. I love helmet, just for the record. I feel like people know this about me. I love helmet. I didn't know that. Oh, really? I love helmet. Okay.

Also, they were so hot. I was looking at picture of them last night. I was like, just fell into a K-hole, and I was like, okay, thrash your hat, go off. And House of Pain, just another victim. Okay, weirdly, this song has the most streams. of the whole soundtrack more than following. Is that true? Yes.

Is that just the first song at the record? It's the first song, I assume, but it's still kind of surprising. What do you guys feel about this song? I feel that it is simultaneously one of the most successful songs and least realized songs on the whole album. It's basically like a helmet song and then a House of Pain song. And there's no like fusion. Girl talk.

They don't come together, you know? It's like the helmet song happens and then Everland that starts rapping and then the song is over. That's sort of the way to introduce the project, right? Like, you're getting people used to the idea that it's going to be this and this. And then now we're going to start combining this and this. I do appreciate that Everlast starts listing the actors in taxi driver. That's my favorite part of his verse.

Like, I was really hoping he would keep going. Like, I just pictured him with like the 1993 version of IMDB open and he's just like finding things to rhyme with Harvey Keitel. You know, that's that's one of my favorite. verses on the whole record happens immediately. I feel that Sybil Shepard and Albert Brooks got short shrift. They really did actually. Albert Brooks.

Maybe there was nothing to rhyme with Albert Brooks. Keitel and hell. It's like an easy. That was. That was a gimmy. I mean, small time crooks, you know, there's something. We could have done some work here. You like that lyric better than because I'm gifted.

I read Sun Tzu. That is another. I put that entire, I transcribed those entire verse for that reason as well. Everlast was sitting at crafty, being annoyed about how bad this movie is scribbling out his lyrics. And it went okay. What do you think? Do you like this song? I do.

I like it a lot. I mean, it might just because I like helmet. But I really like it. It's good. I don't have anything particularly interesting or thoughtful to say about it. I just really like it. It's kind of the like summation of that era of thrash, right? Like the whole riff is just done-a-dun-dun-dun-tun.

Totally. Dun-da-dun-d-d-d-d-done. Isn't that every song from 1983? It's a little jauntier when you do it, and I love that about it. We're angry. Yes. It's like a cab calorie song. Yeah, I just like that crunchy.

I mean, I think it's like, okay, I have one thing that's like slightly thoughtful to say. It's very much the precursor to corn, right? That kind of guitar. And like, coincidentally or not, Immortal record. who is happy in Amanda Demi's record label does put out the first corn self-titled like one year after this. Am I allowed to ask you guys if you like corn? I love corn.

Corn terrified me in real time, like legitimately when I was a teenager. I'm obsessed with how you are, Rob, to just put yourself out there like this all the time. It's my job, Yashi. It's always just I was so scared. I had braces and headgear. I should go back and see how many things I've claimed to be scared. Not claimed, I'm being serious, but corn is one of the big ones. Corn in that Abba side project song, I know there's something going on.

That's the other big scary one for me. Corn was terrifying to me, man. And like corn fans were terrified. You would have scared the crap out of me in 1993. I came to corn in a very strange way. And I've looked at this. and now I can't remember what the year was. But corn, I got a cassingle.

Listeners of this show will know the story and I'm sorry, go ahead and take a drink. But I got a cassingle of blind with a skate magazine very early on. Like I must have been like in the sixth grade or something. So that was pre self-titled. And I loved it. But I had no, there was no context, right? Like it was just the picture on the, there was no picture of the cover. It was a white cassingle and it just had the logo of corn on it.

I didn't know what they looked like. I didn't know anything. That song just fucking slaps. I can see, I can see here. I'm going blunt. It's so good. And that's it. And then I was just like, I was hooked.

Are you not a corn fan? I felt the way that you asked it was with derision. Me? Yeah. I'm pretty conflicted about that whole era. And I do think you're right that this song pushes towards corn, which then pushes towards everything that happens after that, like the success. Well, you can't blame.

this for what it wrought. You can't blame Nirvana for Nickelback. Do you know what I mean? It's simply just things be going the way they go. It's true. It's interesting because Jonathan Davis seems like a pretty good guy, but he also is literally responsible for Fred Durst, like literally responsible for Fraterally. I'm sorry.

Have you guys seen the episode of Monk where that corn is in where Mr. Monk goes on the Corn tour bus? Chef's Kiss. That sounds amazing. Is there a three's company episode also that involves corn or do they not overlap? corn was such a good video band though they had great like at least incredibly memorable videos what about their style dude what about the fucking indita's track suit it was so everything about it yeah i have nothing to say about limb biscuit i'm not of stan of limb biscuit whatever fine chocolate water to hot dog water starfish don't care but corn was awesome giant pants that's my only real sense of the corn style the one thing i'll say is that i feel like it's easy to forget this but when we we produce

the Woodstock-99 doc. I didn't forget that, Sean Fennessey. I work here. I think about it every day. But that sequence in the, during Woodstock 99, when they effectively like take the stage and they have this extended intro before dropping. I can't even remember what song it is.

Do you remember what song it is? Where like at the very beginning of their set. Oh, is it blind? Is it just blind? I think it's blind. So there's extended blind intro. Dun-Dun-Dun-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-d-d-d-d-d-n. When the V-E.

drops and there is like 70,000 people in unison like waving. I'm not sure I'm not sure I've ever seen that like maybe in like Brazil in those 150,000 seat stadiums but come to Brazil you know there are very few bands that were able to command that kind of like violent response they were they were at least a powerful group I'm not sure if I love their songs but they were powerful well you're wrong let's move on okay teenage fan club and de la soul fall in I think we can all agree that despite it not being exactly aesthetically in line with maybe the purpose of the project, it is the most successful song on here. It's almost contemptuous of the product. Like even lyrically, it's about like washed up, like everybody else is like, oh, I'm going to kill you. It's judgment night. Like this just has no relationship musically or lyrically with the rest of the record. And it's awesome. And it's the second. song. And like I love the way that the living color run DMC song like sort of blows it up. Like they,

they run right from one to the other. Like it's just so anomalous in this glorious way. I mean, you like you get what you pay for. Like it's not like they went to teenage fan club, known hard rockers to get like. And also De La Sol is like the most like, that's a different era of rap than, you know, the rest of the people that are on here. I read that I dug up like a interview with Poster News that Jeff Weiss did for LA Weekly a long time ago

in like 2009 and he talked about this and he said we didn't know who teenage fan club were at the time so we picked them when we did the song with them we were in Scotland I didn't know that they went to Scotland that's right that's very cool

I think they might have been a little in awe of us at first I think that's like an understanding I think they were probably terrified of Delausole. But when they saw that we were normal dudes, they calmed down. We started vibing when we happened to be sitting in a little reception area outside the studio, and Tom Petty's Free Fallin video came on. I've always been the person in the group who, when he hears certain words, I take it and apply it to a certain thing.

He's the I love lamp guy of the group. It started as a joke, hey, let's make a song based off a Tom Petty video. Then Dave said, let's spin it about us falling off as rappers. So we went to the store, bought the Tom Petty video, CD and based it around that song. That's beautiful. And then we got the baseline from

Nobody Beats the Biz, the Steve Miller sample. Nobody beats the biz. Nobody beat the bit. That's right. That I didn't know. I mean, this is one of the signature songs

in the 90s, is it not? I mean, this is an amazing song. I don't think to us. I'm sorry, and I love it the most. I'm just saying,

I think perhaps we have one of those like flawed memories because it was so important to us. But, like, I don't think it was a signature song of the next year. I mean it's objectively, right? I don't mean it like in the hall of songs, which means that it was not a signature song of the 90s. But I think, runaway train was a signature song of the next year. Not a bad song.

I certainly had a strong message in that video, as I recall. Very powerful message. That scared me. That's what I was scared. You didn't want to be, you didn't want to show up in the video is one of the Rewa. It freaked me the fuck out. I just, I just mean like the direction that our culture was heading.

This song makes a lot of sense, you know? And also like Dale Silliesel, these are the guys who wrap over Steely Dan. Like they're perfect for an album like this, you know. Actually, even though the tone, as you say, is different. It's not, there's no thrash metal in this song. I love it. I think it's like a genius idea. And to bookend the movie with the song also indicates like the producers knew,

at least they had one fucking melodic tune on this album. Also, the music video is the most adorable. It's just, have you seen the music video? Do you know there was a music video? for them? I don't think I did either. It's set in a school, and teenage fan club is like sitting in the classroom and like De La Sol are like the teachers kind of.

And it's adorable. And Teenage Fan Club is like long hair covering their eyes like hunched over. Just so like cute and just not wanting to be here at all. And De La Sol is like so commanding and charismatic. It is, it's pretty good. Pretty good.

But yeah, I listen to that song a lot. I also have the CD single here and I bought it off eBay. How many CD singles did you have at your peak? I wasn't a CD single girly. I was a KSingle girlie. And then I just bought regular CDs. Okay. Why you guys were CD single men?

I had like a handful of Kisingles. I had Poisons Fallen Angel, Fallen Angel on KSaintah. That's a great song, dude. That's absolutely as good as fallen by teenage fan club of Dale. So yeah, I don't think, you know, my collection would not have rivaled yours, but yeah. Well, we've talked about this. I scammed the companies over and over again. I had way more CDs than anyone who was like 11 years old should, should possess

because I was getting basically stealing them from Columbia House. I'm not sure if I owned a single CD single because I felt that economically it was it was a scam. It was like $6. Yeah. It was really expensive for two songs. Yeah. I also did.

I also scammed Columbia House. I'm not sure if we've discussed that. It's not a scam. Like you're using it the way it was intended. No, they can't hunt you down for that $10.99 a month if you don't have a social security number because you're a child. Or you do,

but you don't know it because you're 11 and you don't give it to them. Oh, so they're mailing you, they're mailing you the $18 CD of the month and you're keeping it, but just not paying for it. I would just keep. signing up for new accounts. Uh-huh.

You get 12 at first. You do. So I would just keep getting 12 at a time. This really adds up, babe. Yes. The first one was Dr. Ray the Chronic. I'm sorry, I'm not saying I'm the coolest kid in the, on the planet. It does seem like you're bragging there.

Rightfully so. But yeah, that's a flex, as they say. I'm from Torrance. John Caramonica. I love how he's here in spirit. He was like, yeah, Carson is a. scary place and I was like, how do you, I literally grew up next door. Like, I'm, I'm aware what Carson's like, how do you know that?

Like, what are you talking about? All right, let's move on. Living Color, Run DMC. Me, myself, and my microphone. I do like that they involved living color. I wish they had also involved Fishbone. Like, I think, like, if you're doing this, it would have been really cool to involve, like, the two.

I mean, like, if they had, what? This is 93. Why didn't they get bad brains? Bad brains were active in 93. I do believe that Happy Walters, who was it who was talking about that? Somebody in one of the pieces about this film indicated that Lee or Cohen was trying to push bad brains on one of the groups that participated here and they couldn't get them on board. But I mean, bad brains would have been similar to the trickiness of this song, which is that both of these groups, with all due respect to them, they're both iconic artists. were like five to seven years past their hot moment, their glory moment.

Not living color. Living color was pretty hot. When was color of personality? I was like 88. You're right. You're right. You're right. Yeah, it's 87 or 88.

Yeah. So it's a little, you know, not that they lost all their VIN five years later, but it's not the same as Buiya tribe right in their sweet spot. Don't they determine in that Rolling Stone article that this is the last? thing that run DMC actually really did together because like they're subsequent like whatever that 2001 album was not really was sort of misaligned and only two of the guys worked on it and so this is the last this is the last instance of this is your legacy there you go it's me myself in my song yes um this song I skip I'm sorry I'm really sorry I have to be honest with you guys I'm

sorry, I don't, I don't listen to this song. What about you guys? It's not one of my favorites. I don't believe in skipping songs philosophically, but yeah, I get you. What? I just want to, I want to have the full album experience. I'm very, I'm very old-fashioned. When are you like, let me have the full judgment night soundtrack album experience? So I, 14, 15 hours ago, I watched the movie, I go to bed, I get up, I take my kid to swim practice, and I sit there listening to the judgment night soundtrack in full. Thank you. that's when. Well, yeah, I had to do it against my will also.

Because it's my job. But when it's for pleasure and enjoyment. Yeah, the last time I was cooking dinner and listening to this song, yeah, I guess maybe I would skip it. All right, fine. It's a good workout soundtrack, though. Rob, are you okay? I'm great.

I'm doing awesome. Don't skip songs? What? We didn't get all the way to this moment in history. I appreciate the full album experience, man. I'm trying to get the full, the full, yeah. Come on, you guys. It's okay to skip songs.

I'm just going to say that to the listening public. It's okay. You want to skip a song? Skip it. Rob is too scared to skip this song. He feels like someone's going to come and yell at him. He'll get bean up by living color. I'm not scared all the time.

I talk about my feelings. I am well adjusted. Oh my God. Sheesh. Does it? Oh, yo, are you about to compare me to fucking like Jeremy Piven or something? Yeah. Okay.

No, Jeremy Piven doesn't confront it. That's why he dies and everyone's actually happy when he dies because he's so fucking annoying. This podcast is also a treatise on white flight. Yeah, that's incredible. Amazing. You're more, you're more brother John maybe because brother John is like is grappling with whether he wants to be a real manly man,

a cowboy. All the time. You've been mistaken for Dorf many a time. I have been, I've signed autographs as him. Yes. I don't want to disappoint people. Right? It's like it's too awkward.

No, it's not me. It's fine. I feel like the best part. Sorry, now we're back to the movie. But when they're in the sewer, and I didn't know, that's what the sewer looks like. It's so big.

I don't know if that's what the sewer looks like. It didn't go to the actual. It's a fucking teenage mutant ninja turtles. It looked like the water park. I don't know. But when Cuba getting Jr. Holds up the pipe and he's like, I always wondered how I'd do in combat.

that. We've all had that moment. I did. I feel like it could have been a good movie. Do you know what I mean? Like if they had really pushed the mental illness of like, because it was giving a bit of like, Lord of the Flies,

like these men are like having a psychosis of masculinity when pushed against the wall. But Emilio Estevez's like straight man was just so lifeless and like had no emotion but was simply just like we're not doing that. I don't want to put two final points on this, but this occurred to me several times while rewatching it. So one, the movie is like a Western, right? It's like it's the Cowboys versus the Indians in a lot of ways, right? And then, you know, the Indians are here. We don't call them that anymore. Of course, but just in the parlance of movie dialogue, you know, the Cowboys enter this

foreign terrain and they are under attack by. the quote unquote savages. And there are a lot of movies in the 40s, 50s, 60s that are incredibly culturally insensitive. They created this sort of like, they perpetuated the stereotype throughout our history. And this movie is another version of that. And this movie is, there are a lot of movies about kind of like white interlopers entering historically black neighborhoods and then like being trapped and lost and scared. But that's really weird.

The movie makes an attempt to be, I don't know about progressive, but at least it lied part of the kind of cultural conversation by saying like, this is actually an Irish gang in Cabrini. Right. And there was a black gang too. And there was a moment of brokering with them. But they're not the bad. They're not chasing us. But then using a soundtrack like this where a white music executive is managing all these

black artists and then getting them to collaborate with white artists so that you can appeal to a broader demographic culturally. Like this, this movie is in this complicated cultural conversation. conversation about like basically how hip hop becomes the center of popular music over a period of time. But the fact that it's happening in a movie where they're like, we refuse to really, like, we're only going to focus on Cuba Gidd and Jr. as the only primary black character in the whole story is, it's not intentional, but unintentionally it becomes this really odd document of the way that the music industry just like took over this whole plot of land. That's, that's my

complicated maybe bad speech. No, no. I'm trying to figure out who. who Dennis Leary is in this analogy. He's Lear Cohen. There we go. They would get along, I have to think. Probably. Tough talking fellows. Dennis Leary is the best part of the film.

Can we agree? He's absolutely incredible. The one part where I was like, oh, the director was feeling frisky today. He was like, let me try something where it's just a, of close up of his mouth. It's in the sewer. In the sewer. In the sewer.

Yes. That's a good one. Yeah. And he does have such iconic tea. that I was like, this was good. This was great. He does the split diopter thing you see in Brian DePaul movies where two people at different distances are both in focus at the same time.

Many times where Dennis Leary is right up close to the camera. It's really a bit of a flex. And I won't lie, Jeremy Piven was delightful. I mean, in the way that you want to like strangle him, but like that's his whole thing. So it's like he's, this was a first foray into like doing his Jeremy Piven thing. I'm amazed he looked like that.

I was going to say, he looked like that in 1990. He's always looked like that. Yeah, he's like, he's the Willie Nelson. You. Willie Nelson was never young in the same way that Jeremy Piven was never young. He came out of the wound with that hairline. Yeah. He must have been in his

20s there. Right, right. Yeah, it looks like I do now, basically. Or he looks like I feel now, I guess, would be the better way to say it. I'm going to negotiate with these guys. I love it. I'm going to use, he was like, I don't need your toxic masculinity. I'm going to to use my words. Capitalism. Yeah.

Then he gets thrown right off. Metaphor. The Balcon. Goodbye. We'll talk about the wind chimes later. I'll have some questions. Please. Thank you.

The next song, Biohazard and Onyx. This song fucking bangs. Can we agree? Yes. And unlike Living Color and N-Rond DMC, onyx is at the peak of their fame. Is this the same year as Slam, right?

And the same year as the. remix of the two of them. Yeah, yeah. Tiz. That's right. Slam did do-do. I mean, this song works because these guys worked together before. This is the second time they recorded together. So it makes sense. It's not as good as the Slam did Duda remix Biohazard. That's better.

The Bionics remix. That fucking shit is amazing. Do you guys recall the name of the breakthrough album for Onix in 1993? I do. No. I believe it would be Back to Fuck Up. That's correct. Oh, yeah. Back da fuck up. You're so right.

Onyx was a hardcore band, like disguised as rappers. Like, slam, they're just screaming. My buddy Dan made a website like for one of his bands. And, you know, you put like, go back to the homepage. He changed that text to back to fuck up. So you had to click on the word back to fuck up to go back to the homepage of the band. I thought it was the greatest web design decision in history as far as I'm concerned. And he went on to found Facebook.

Shout out to Dan. Okay. Yeah. So Lyra Cohen, this is what you talked about. he was trying to he was trying to mention there was another Fredo Star

there was another group he was mentioning bad brains the way he says this is that he has no idea on God's good earth who bad brains is

he's like they're talking about some other band I have no fucking idea who he's talking about but he was like we don't we didn't know

what was going on with that type of shit but Leorne knew that shit it only made sense to do with biohazard they were real ass dudes too I love this

I love that they're This is another thing we didn't mention. They did try as much as they could to pair up artists from the same place. It feels like they're in the same place, the vast majority of the time, which is an underrated aspect of something like this. Well, I mean, and also being from the same place. So like onyx and biohazard are from New York, which is, that's kind of cool. And they played a bunch of Celo, which I loved. Do you guys ever play Ciloh?

I was deep into Celo for a while. In school, yeah, all the time. Yeah. probably not the same style of game that Onyx and Biohazard were playing. It was probably different temperament. Yes. I also love that when they did shows together, Onyx was scared of the biohazard crowd.

They were scared. They were wearing like bulletproof vests. All right. Let's talk about the next song. Speaking of being from the same place, Slayer and Ice-T. I know Ice-T is technically from the East Coast, but he was raised in South LA. He counts.

Yeah. He count. And Slayer is from South Central. This is my third favorite song on the record. Easy. What's your second? Uh, fallen. What's your first?

Freak Mama. Oh my God. We can work. We can move stuff. We can wait. We can wait on that. It's a good song. Yeah.

Disorder is really fucking good. I mean, I love that. I think this one is the most interesting song on here. Because it has like, multiple layers, right? It's, they share the vocals, which doesn't always happen. And I think that's really cool. I also like that they do that medley of songs by the exploited, the Scottish punk band from the 80s. I think that adds like a very cool dimension. Rick Rubin produced the song, Richard Rubin, which again, probably just means he sat in the room.

Sat. I probably reclined, but yeah, yeah. Yeah, sat barefoot in the corner and a TP that he brought in himself and made it happen. I have nothing bad to say about Rick Rubin right now. Right now, or just like in general. I think this song's okay. I feel like it could have been better given like where both of these acts were at this time.

And the fact that they just did a cover, I guess I'm not a bit, I don't know much about the exploited. So maybe if you were an exploited fan, this would seem exciting to see those songs covered. A cover. It's a, a. three song medley cover. But I don't know.

I would have liked to have heard a like eight minute Doom Power Slayer record featuring Ice T. Rapping. And we didn't quite get that. So it's, you know. The shouts of LA 92 are quite striking to me, right?

Like that sort of grounds this record in reality in a way that it really isn't anywhere else. All right. Yeah, I would have liked to hear like Angel of Death with Ice T wrapping over it or something. Sure. 100%.

but I like disorder too. I also like the Ice Tea said that Slayer were his idols. I thought that was so cool. It makes sense. I mean, Body Count, like, Ice-T clearly has diverse musical tastes and musical expression, and Body Count was sick. I saw Body Count play a Warp Tour. They played the same year, this is wonderful, they played the same year as Eminem. Eminem was brand new.

he had only put out what's the first single hi my name is and he got booed off stage they pelted him with water bottles did you boo? Did you throw a water bottle with Eminem? No, I was like 14. I was simply

vibed. Did you crowd surf? Perhaps I did and no I didn't crowd surf but I moshed and I skinned both my knees in the less than Jake in the less than Jake. All right. That was right. A bunch of less than Jake fans shame Eminem off stage. There we go.

But they loved body count. Um, all right, next song. Faith no more. Boo ya tribe. Another body murdered. It's just another body murder. Another body murdered. It seems like they're having a good time.

I don't get it. Yeah, this song doesn't know for me personally. I don't get this one. It's not my favorite. The piano is interesting. The ominous piano is interesting. Yeah, it's, it's all right. Roddy bottom, babe.

Roddy bottom. Roddy bottom. God bless. God bless. I feel like this is. this is like the saggy middle of the record. And then it starts to pick up after this. That's where my head's at.

I would be a tribe, you know, it's like a great idea for a group whose like songs never really resonated with me personally. And honestly, same with Faith No More. I don't know if that's sacrilege, but I don't really care about Faith No More that much.

Faith No More is the weakest Mike Patton project. Wow. Wow. That's right. His opera album. Have you heard his opera? I have not. I'm serious.

The fucking. How about Handsome Boy Modeling School where he shows up? It's not Handsome Boy Walt's School. It's the other one that he did with Dan the Automator. You guys know what I'm talking about. Loveage. Yeah. Yo, Lovege is the fucking best shit in the world.

Mr. Bungle. Tomahawk, Mr. Bungle. Right, right. The Biorch, wasn't he on the Bjorc record? Oh, I want you to do the Vork. Mike Patton's incredible. And I like Faith No More, but it's, that's like the tip of the iceberg of Mike Patton's genius.

These do look like Photoshopped album covers. You're right about that. Don't they? But in a trotty. In a charming way. I love it. No, it's not bad. I absolutely love it.

I think this song also probably had difficulty coming together because they're both bands. So it's like on the other ones, one handles the music, but they both play music. So perhaps that was difficult. I know I'm known to not be like the world's biggest Sonic Youth fan, but I love Sonic Youth Cypress Hill. I love you, Mary Jane. I think it works really well. this is in my top four on this album. Okay.

Because it feels like a genuine fusion of the two acts to me. Like it feels like they made a real sincere effort to make a song together. And so I give them some points. I love the idea of Kim Gordon just being stoned out of her fucking gourd while making this though. By accident. Yeah, not directly. But yeah, just being in the room. Much like my real father who took me into the K-Rock weeny roast because I couldn't go alone because I was too young.

And we were in the pit, not the pit, sorry. We were in the lawn, we were in the lawn section of what used to be called Irvine Meadows. And Sean's favorite band, Raging Against the Machine was playing. And there were literal bonfires. I'm not literal people had started bonfires in the lawn section and were like running around. And my dad was asleep because he had gotten so high. from in his words like on the lawn grass yeah okay yeah we had a blanket you know so he's at a picnic for all he knows rage is like fuck you i won't do what you tell me and there's fires and he's

just taking it dead now that's that's peak dad activity right there you got to take a nap whenever you can take it absolutely yeah yeah i could see i could see myself sleeping in that environment honestly a legend and an icon um again once again not that the feminism has reentered my body per se but it also was, I think it's like a nice moment to hear a woman's voice. It's the only time you hear a woman's voice in this entire operation. Absolutely. And it's like very breathy and sexy and like I feel like this song really works. I like it. Um, here we are wrong. This is I'm excited about this. I'd like to take the floor. Yeah. Please mud honey, cervix a lot and talk to you about freak mama. I always said this was my favorite song like not ironically, but like I did I did, I did determine

it was the funniest answer to the question, what is your favorite song on this record? But listening to it just this morning at the pool, I decided it was actually my favorite because it sounds like Sir Mixed a lot fronting mud honey. There's an organic, if what we're judging this record by in part

is like how well they fuse together and like it feels like they're in the same room and you feel like some sort of fusion, you know, a meeting of the minds has been achieved. I do think this is just such a, charming combination of two distinct personalities that creates for the duration of a song called Freak Mama like a third personality. You know what I mean?

I'm into it. Also, it's just funny to me to say that Freak Mama is my favorite song. That hasn't changed. I'm just like obsessed with like at the end, Sir Mix-A-Law. At the end of this song says, I just lost my credibility. Yeah, I, that was gone. Right. Yeah.

Put out a song where his anaconda don't want none unless you got buns, hun. My anaconda don't want none unless you got buns, hun. Amongst other iconic lyrics. And the music video, don't even get me started. And then this is what causes him to lose his credibility. This is also how I learned that Sir Mixelot was from Seattle. I don't know why I don't imagine him to be from Seattle. Where do you imagine him to be from Sir Mixelah?

I didn't ever imagine it, if we're being honest. It never crossed my mind. Giant plot from the video, just like that's the entire continent. Yes. L.A., New York, I don't know. Seattle. Chris Sutton said he's like the mayor of Seattle. I would vote for him if I lived in Seattle.

I thought that was Mark Arm wanted to work with Cyprus Hill. I really enjoyed this story. Everybody did, yeah. But everyone, Cypress Hill was taken. Happy Walter saying Wu-Tang wasn't really around yet. Is that true? This is right when they were about. it's a breakout.

It was November of 93 is the first Wutang, so. Got it. Happy wanted to hook us, this is Mark, I'm speaking. Happy wanted to hook us up with this other band he was managing called Funk Dubious. Yeah. Something happened with them, I think, at the Canadian border. And they were kind of incapacitated for a while. As you are when your name is Funker.

No, that's not true. Happy Walters lied to their face because actually Funk Dubious, fuck dubious was like, ew. no, we're not fucking with mudhutist. But then magic happened. The Seattle connection was made. Why don't we work with the biggest Seattle rapper we know or the only Seattle rapper that anybody knows? And let's fucking get this shit popping.

Who are the top five rappers from? Is it just Sir Mixed a lot in Macklemore, unfortunately? Isn't McElmore? Sadly, McElmore was not on the scene. Yeah, that's, he would have had several tracks featured in McElmore. Yeah. Yikes. It's a pretty short list of well-known figures from Seattle.

Okay, so now you understand why I was maybe a little bit strong with this. I'm calling it from Seattle. All right. Dinosaur Jr. Let's go. This is it. featuring Dell the Funky Homo Sagan. I'm sorry, I fucking love.

This one rules. This is in my top five for sure. This is my favorite song. Hell yeah. That's my dog. This is a great song. Great guitar solos. Yeah.

Yeah. Dinosaur Jr. This is like, they sound amazing on this song. Yeah. Jay Mask is killing it. Jay Mask is killing it. It's like a beautiful wave of water that Dell the funky Homo sapien is surfing upon

with his distinctive vocal stylings. I think there's that great story of they really wanted Ice Cube for this record. And Ice Cube, of course, who could rhyme over anything and famously over public enemy beats on his first solo record. and he was probably making the movie Friday when this was happening, so he was not available. Well, apparently he was, he didn't want to do it, and his manager was like,

don't talk to me about Rock. This is the guy from NWA. Just ridiculous when you look at what he's done. Which is fair, though. No, but before this, fair. It's like you went to like get the guy from NWA to come and J.Maskis. That's true, but then happy Walters, I think, is like, and then they just send me this guy,

Del the Funky Homo sapien, but Del the Funky Homo Sapien is Ice Cube's cousin. Right. They're related. So they just sent his cousin. And lo and behold, this, Del the Funky Homo Sapian,

another connector figure in the future of music because, you know, you mentioned handsome boy modeling school earlier. He goes on to rap with a handsome boy modeling school. He makes Deltron 3030. And then Gorillas. And Del is great.

Del is like a genuinely great artist. No Need for Alarm. That's one of my favorite albums in the 90s. He's awesome. So this is like a beautiful peanut butter and chocolate situation to me, Dell and Dinosaurs. I love the chorus. I love their voices.

I love Jay's voice, like very deep in the mix on the chorus, but just the fusing of their two physical voices is a really lovely dudes rock sort of situation for me. I love Delafunkie Homo Scipian. My first job was at an underground hip-hop record label in Oakland. Sorry, I know. Not to be like I'm the coolest personal life once again, but hieroglyphics had their office like around the

corner and so like I would often like have lunch with them. Where? They were very nice people. What do they eat for lunch? I don't know. That's not what this is 20. Sweet green. You were lunching with Hiro?

I know. Can you believe? It was it was ABB records, hieroglyphics and the giant peach. We were all like in the same area. This is how we lunch from 93 till. Yeah. This is how we lunch from 93 till.

But yeah, they were very nice. They're very nice. Rob, that was really good. Thank you. Okay. I couldn't find. J. Maskas had said that he had seen this MTV. thing called like hanging out with Dell and he seemed cool.

I couldn't find that. I tried really hard. Like I used all of my skills, but I don't think anyone has uploaded it to YouTube. But I did find, oh, this was awesome. I'm sorry, I can't believe neither one of you guys brought this up. This was one of my favorite tidbits. Jay Basque is saying, I do remember ordering out for food, speaking of lunch, and him and his buddy had never had Thai food. And they were not interested in trying it.

Had Thai. is a foreign, literally foreign concepts. They were like absolutely not, bitch. Get that shit out of my fucking face. He's the ideal person to introduce a person to Thai food also. I can't imagine a better entree into that. Can you elaborate? No, I can't.

I just feel it in my heart. That's all. But then they did do Arsenio Hall, which is so awesome. And I know I didn't have time because I was doing this literally last night at 10 p.m., but to really get into why, I don't know if this was when Jay Masquez and Lou Barlow were feuding, and I don't know why there was nobody in the band, but he has Mike D from the Beastie Boys come play drums,

and Mike Watt play bass. Mike Watt is my favorite. Sick as shit in the entire. Is this ball hog or tugboat era what's happening here? Okay, so that's a couple years later. I was wondering if this was on Mike Watt. lot was like just collecting all these random people and starting to put them together. And this is an early indicator.

From what I can tell, you can ask Mike Watt to play bass on literally anything. And if he is available, he will come and do it. I'm going to do that. I think it's really dangerous and maybe toxic to tell young people that all their shit sucks now and that we had it way better. But seriously, on Arsenio Hall. Hello and welcome to bandsline, first of all. Dinosaur Jr. Del the Funky Homo Sapien,

Mike D and Mike Watt performed a song from a movie that no one saw and no one cared about and it was sick and it lives on to this day on YouTube. We had it so good. The greatest generation.

It's so true. Little did we know later on Mike Watt would make me cry. But that's neither here nor there. here's what Del the Funky Home Sapien said in the 1993 Rolling Stone review of this album, which was mostly just kind of talking about it and asking some people about it. He said, it's cool, but it's some alternative shit. I doubt that it's the future of rap.

And you know what? He was not rock. No, it was the future of rock. Exactly. But he said it was not the future of rap. And he was absolutely correct. He then said trap music. but they left it off there because he's a psychic.

Okay, here's one I really need to talk to you guys about. Therapy question mark and fatal come and die. This track is really good, I think. You don't like it. I love this track. I would skip this song. I don't skip songs, but I would skip this song. This doesn't do it.

I did make a face. I'm sorry. A man who was afraid of corn. Okay, can we stop with the, I? I'm scared like 1% of the day. I am scared like a normal healthy percentage. I don't know that it actually is, but okay. Yeah, this song just does it.

This is just somebody screaming die for however long, like nine minutes or however long. So sick. Would you say that therapy is the best band with a question mark in its name? Ooh. I don't even know any other bands of question marks. I'm a question mark in the Mysterians, right? okay so no does Godspeed you black emperor

have a question mark why do I imagine them to oh okay I think it's Godspeed exclamation point you black emperor well in the canon of having a punctuation mark then no because Godspeed I think does trump them but

I don't know man I didn't know about therapy to be honest like the name was familiar and like when I looked at the logo it was like burned in my brain just from like living in the 90s and looking at like magazines and stuff But I had no familiarity with their, with their over. The only thing I know about this group, and I just confirm this, is that they have an album cover that's just a naked dude with his head in a trash can.

And I would see it all the time at like Camelot music or whatever. And I would stay the hell away from it. That is literally the only thing. Would you say it was because you were? No, I would say I found it aesthetically displeasing. That is a different emotion. You were on your tip or gorse. Yeah.

Not that either, but okay. I just feel like, besides the fact that I like it and you guys don't, I feel like it's the most random track on here. I don't think Sean has weighed in, actually, so I'm curious. He's going to break this time. Do you like this? Thanks. Thanks, Rob. Here's the thing.

This song sucks. Yes. Well, that's enough shot. Thank you. Back to what I was saying. I just, no one mentions this. It's not mentioned once in the oral. history. I read every article I could find about this project, never talked about. No one says

one single breathes a word about this. Fatal, I could barely even find this man. He does not have a footprint. He put out one album, a self-title album on Rap A Lot Records in 2002. It is simply fine. Do you guys know who this man is? I'm not sure that that's the same fatal. But it's linked on Spotify. Is it a different fatal? There's also a German rapper. named fatal? Do you think it's that guy? I couldn't tell. If you're fatal and you're listening, bang my line. I need to know. I'm sorry. So there's Hussein fatal. There's a rapper name Hussein fatal, who is a part of like Tupac's click in the 90s. Is that who you think it was? I think that's who put out the rap lot record in 2002. Oh, I see. Joe Fatal is the rapper on this song and Joe Faddle was in

Soul Assassins and he was a more ignominious. He's like an eighth tier rapper. And the reason no one has ever spoken publicly about this song until this very podcast is because it is clearly the last song that they cobbled together for this record because this is the B tier of B tier stuff. It's pretty bad. It's because Tool didn't send theirs.

It might be. It might be because they bailed. But I'm glad you like it. I'm glad you like it. That's great. Joe Fidel, he has a Twitter. Wow. This is all happening in real time because I didn't.

didn't know this Joe Fatal information, followed by Cool Keith. He has 256 followers. Okay, anyways, no need to slander Joe Fatal on this podcast. I think that song's good. Okay. And I also, just so you know, therapy did open for Babes in Toiland and Hole in the early 90s, which I think is cool. And teeth crainder slaps.

It's a great song title. Come and Die. Such a good song title. That's good. It just, it draws you right in. Did you guys know that therapy question mark put out an album last month called hard cold fire? And the first song on it is called They Shoot the Terrible Master. Haven't gotten around to that one.

It's in the pile. They shoot the terrible master. That's right. The last song on here is Pearl Jam and Cypress Hill. I still can't get over Joe Faddle. I'm sorry. there was nobody else. Like in the pantheon

of rappers that were available at the time, there was literally, not even like, AC alone was available or like nobody? It's a legitimate question. I think that this was part of the DJ Mug's conspiracy to, you know, dot as many of their artists as possible into this project.

Sure. Eighth tier is pretty far down. It is. It is. I mean, if you're ungoogulable, bitch, if you're ungoogulable, like there's, four other fatal rappers that are findable before you.

I think Sean is correct. It's a bad beat. In the tier. All right. Last song. Once again, we had two Cypress Hills because everyone wanted to work with them so bad. I do find it misleading that they say Pearl Jam in Cyprus Hill.

And I'll only say that because Edward Vedder did not show up or was not in. It doesn't sound like Pearl Jam other than the bass maybe. Yeah. I would not have guessed Pearl Jam if you'd ask me to guess who the band was. This is the most disappointing song of the 1990s. I bought this album for this song and I started playing it and I was like this is not Pearl Jam

what the fuck guys not not only is as you say at Eddie Vedder not participating but it just doesn't sound like Pearl Jam at all Stone Gossard bitch where are you at really really depressing I love it's not giving it's not giving Jeff a ment

but what about Be Real's Angelic Boys it didn't save it for you it's fine but it's like So Cypress Hill actually, you know, like 10 years later, basically go on to become a rock band. You know, they like made that shift into rap and rock superstar. And then they kind of unlocked that audience again post-lalapalooza.

This just kind of feels like a warm up for that to me. Well, for me, this is a gorgeous opportunity to talk about a thing I had never seen that I saw last night. And I absolutely felt like I was tripping on drugs watching it, which is a video for a thing called MTV Live and Loud in Seattle. which Pearl Jam was supposed to play, but once again, the nicest man in rock and roll,

Edward Vedder, declined to show up, did not show up. So it became Nirvana, the breeders, and Cypressill would cut off my arm to have been able to go to that. So,

but when they aired it, you know who hosted? Fatal. Joe Fatal. Do I get to Joe Fidel? Do I finally tell you guys something you don't know? Okay, here it is. It was hosted by Anthony Kedis and Flea.

Now, the clips that I saw, it starts with them dressed as Hasidic Jews. Sure. But they're speaking in a Jamaican patois. That's A. And then they change into leprechaun outfits. Anthony, Kedas, and Flea, do, or everyone does. Correct. Just them too.

And then by the end, they're dressed as old men and they're on a rowboat. Hmm. I see. And this is all simply interstitial. to talk about introducing the live performances, and then it cuts to the Cypress Hill lot of performance, which apparently Pearl Jam minus Eddie Vedder did, they did perform the real thing.

It's not in this video, so I couldn't find it, but that was performed live one time. I bet it sucked then, too, honestly. I'm sorry. TBQH, it really probably did, honestly. And no offense to the three other members of Pearl Jam, but I promise you that the audience did not know who that was. I wish this was better, you know?

Yeah. I know. It sounds like the disappointment has stayed in your heart. It really had. For 20-something. When you buy a CD for one song and that song is bad, that's not a state of affairs I would wish on my worst enemy. Absolutely.

But you got so many a day. Yeah, yeah. So much. Why are you looking at gift horse in the mouth? I mean, I know you paid for it, so it wasn't really a gift. But the riches that you got, fallen is 10 times better than anything that Pearl Jam and Cyprus Hill would have even made at their peak, I feel like. I don't know, but that's a strong statement.

But I generally, I agree with you that it gave me, this album gave me a lot. So it's okay that I was disappointed by this. But it gave you freak mama. You really can't overstate like 11 year old me and my investment in both Cyprus Hill and Pearl Jam. Like there really is no overstating it. That was like me with Nirvana. I didn't have the same investment in Pearl Jam as you because that was cool. but um i like nirvana just as much if not more but you know you know that there's a church and state here

i always i always rejected that i'm so glad you brought that up why why was there a church and because because kurt said one time that they sucked no it's not even that and i love pearl jam too it's not even like a rivalry or a feud it's not like oasis and blur or what i don't even know it's just more that which one that you identified with and liked better says a lot it's a raw shock it says a lot about your personality i think in real time? Did you feel that like when you were in school, that they were in Nirvana people in Pearl Jam? Because I didn't feel that at all, but that's interesting. Okay. I didn't either. I don't know what goes on in Ohio. I appreciate. I'll tell you what. I think what you're saying,

there's, there's definitely a lot of truth to it. I definitely preferred Nirvana to Pearl Jam, but that doesn't mean that Pearl Jam wasn't awesome. At this exact moment in time, they ripped. That's my, that's my God's honest. I did not say they weren't awesome. I, you know how I feel. First three albums, absolute bingers. Pass that. It's a dog whistle. It's a dog whistle that only men can hear. And that's fine. Do not besmirge yield in front of me. Yield is awesome. Wishless. Rock. Wishless. Of course. Of course. That's a dude's rock. Classic. That is true. This is music for dads. And I would not ever take that away from you. But me having not become a father yet, it does not speak to me.

I wish I was. What about no code? What about red mosquito? You heard that one? Oh, that's good. That's the fourth one, right? That's when you complete. The riff, yeah. That's that, the album had like the paper sleeve with the photographs inside of it. Off he goes. Off he goes. Yeah. Incredible.

Come on. They'd spend all that time with Neil Young and then they just made a bunch of Neil Young songs. That's awesome album. That's what I'm talking about. That's what I mean. Present tense. You know that one? Present tense.

That's the end of the Michael Jordan thing, right? That's the last song, the last dance. On the last dance. Yeah. Yeah. Can I throw something in both of your directions? because I feel like you guys are the foremost experts. It's not about...

It's not about protein, I promise. Or raging on the submission. It's not about rage. Although it is tangentially about both of those bands. All right. So this album comes out in 1993. Correct. Is this the very best year in the history of not music,

not pop music, but the American record industry? Is this when the palette was as big as it was ever going to be? and so we got the most interesting stuff available in mass. I think yes. Because also this is in utero. This is PJ Harvey, rid of me.

Siamese Dream, Wu Tang. This is Liz Pharma Rottors. Exile and Guy Ville. It's Bjork's debut. It's Slash. It's 903-Sile. It's Pablo Honey. It's the chronic.

It's Janet. Girl, you're so right. I mean, I could go down the Midnight Marauders. Counting Crows. Counting crows, August, and everything afterwards. Pork soda by Primus. What's the 4-1-1 by Mary J. Blige? It's bizarre eye to the far side.

We already mentioned back the fuck up. Oh, my God. This was the best year of all of our lives. And everything is so weird. There's so many novelty songs. This is, there it is. Rob, how many episodes do you think? You think this has the highest concentration of 60 songs?

I have always meant to do this. that and I never have, but yes, anecdotally, I would say it's 93 or 94 for sure. Yes. Very special time. Meatloaf. Yeah. Well, that was the other thing too is you've got all these like 70s acts that are having these revivals at this time too. Shoup, bitch. Shoup is that year. Yeah, diggable planets. Like David Bowie put a record out that year. Um, Tony Braxton crushing the charts. You weren't man enough for me. 10,000 maniacs. Tom, Mary Jane's last dance is this year. Bro, 10,000 Maniacs trouble me. Christ has dummies.

I don't know, but you can you leave that out of the can of. Matthews. That song scared. There was a girl. No. She turned blue, bitch. What are you talking about?

Why? It's a metaphor. I hated it. I hated every second of that song. It chills me to the bone. What about snow's informer? I love that song. What?

In form. Oh, it's so good. Candlebox. It's so good. So good when it hits your lips. Yes. No, you. I won't lie.

I was still on cover. That also had the sickest album cover with the x-ray of the middle finger flipping. That's what I think of when I think of candlebox. Yeah, just the ethos of candlebox. To 11-year-old me. What about Weird Al's Alapalooza? Oh, that's the best one.

Yeah. Oh, don't even disparage weird Al. I'm not disappointed. You were grumbling. What about Stings and some of those tales? Are you guys into that? Is that Fields of Gold? Yalae, is that one?

That is definitely not that. If I ever lose my faith in you and fields of gold. Fields of gold. No one said Siamese dream. I thought I said that, but then I didn't want to say it again. But yes, you should say it again.

Mazzie Star so that tonight I might see. Yo. You can do this forever. James Laid. We are doing it forever. That's what's great about it. I know. This is the end.

Zoo ropa. But we're still. They're just listing albums now. as we've run a ground. The edge is, babe, speak to your point. The edge is rapping,

that's, that's how far we've gotten in merge. Actually, I can't believe in our, in our history of rap rock, we didn't mention Numb in which the edge rap. And Numb had a soul assassin's

DJ Mugs remix. Oh, there it is. See, full circle. Full circle. Can I ask, is Judgment Knights,

the soundtrack that is the definitive soundtrack that is much more beloved than the movie. Is there another example of a soundtrack that endures in popular culture, but the movie does not at all?

I couldn't think of one. Because people like the Superfly soundtrack better than the movie, but people like the Superfly movie, right? Like, I just, nobody, nobody likes this movie or saw this movie unless they bought it off voodoo

for 1099. Well, we'll see you at the screening at Brandon. I don't. I'm flying out for that. Hopefully, hopefully some people like it. No,

I think you're right. Also, the thing we didn't mention, sorry, I just have to shout out my queen, who I'm a huge fan of, who was the actual music supervisor on this with Happy Walters, was Karen Rackman,

who is, in my estimation, the most iconic music supervisor of all time. She did Clueless, she did reservoir dogs. She did Pulp Fiction. There's a lot more that I can't even remember. She was,

She is major. And she's also Ricky Rachman's sister. And my other, did you know that? I did not know that. My other question was I associate the mid-90s with movie soundtracks, right? Like I think of the crow. Hell yeah.

You know, like in spawn, which is obviously the next thing that Happy does. Like, is there a material reason for this boom in movie soundtracks? And is there a reason for the bus? Like, why does it happen right now in the mid-90s?

And why does it stop? happening. Well, I feel it's the same reason that 1993 is the sickest year of music because there was a lot of fucking money to be made off selling CDs and there was a lot of appetite for culture and CDs with money attached to it. And so we have record labels handing out fucking major label deals to any Tom Dick and Harry on the street. And my dream actually would be to just, here we go, pitching Sean Fennacy on a music box. I'm talking. that'll never happen. But I'm dying to get deep in the weeds on how many bands were signed to majors and put

out albums that we do not know their fucking name. You would say the name to you. They put out two major label albums. No one knows they existed. Sold. Millions. I completely agree with you, Yasi.

I think that's the exact reason is that the labels were never bigger and more successful and richer. And also there was a gold rush around things that they didn't understand. so they were more willing to take chances on strange. It's the same, it's analogous to 1968 to 1975 in the movies. Where it was just like, you know what, these kids are loving these weirdos. Let's give these weirdos a chance to make something. And so there's a lot of it. And so you could sort of like road test acts in these formats on the soundtracks without overinvesting to. You could say, like, let's just give them a song on here and see if it breaks out without having to put the whole record together. And it was appealing to us to buy it because you were like, oh, I'm getting all this like, I get,

all this discovery for 1099 or 1299. In a pre-streaming consciousness, it was fascinating to not have to change the disc changer that you could get different artists on one disc. That's like the same with like the jock jam's compilations. And then eventually now that's what I call music and all that. No, babe, no alternative. Can we at least refer to the cool ones.

Jock jam. They're all special. I like all the DGC rarities. The one soundtrack that might supersede the movie, even though people kind of like this movie, but I don't think people actually care about it is the bodyguard. Yeah, yeah, yes Okay

Only for the one song What else is on the soundtrack? But it didn't sell like 25 million copies Because of the one song Yeah, basically It's just that's I don't I couldn't go into my head I couldn't tell you another song on there Could you?

I don't think so Queen of the Night And also somebody's cover of what's so funny About peace love and understanding And that's why Niccolo will be rich forever Yeah But basically Oh I think I have nothing is on there

Mm, it is Oh, I've got nothing Yeah, that's a jam you never know what's going to make yasi sing and that's what's so exciting for me i didn't even give you a jeremy spoken in here even though we talked so much about was that wilfrid brimley singing who did it better rob me or courtney love because i did hear courtney love do it on your episode and i was like this is my thing and i can't believe you're taking my thing which is singing jeremy spoken to rob well she said she said she

said she only did it once in seattle and she had a transcendent experience that nobody else could see. And so I would probably give it to her just on account of the transcendent experience. But it's a really good Eddie Vedder impression. Calmless little fuck. All right. I'm giving it to you. There is a little Wilford Brimley in it, but that's what makes it so good. That's what I'm saying. That's what Eddie Vedder sounds like to my ear. Happy Walter, speaking of soundtracks, like you said earlier, Sean did go on to do many other music supervision of movies, including Ready to Wear, which is a fantastic film. I think we can

Prediportez? Air. Yeah. Yeah. Did he do? Yeah, Predator Porte. Airheads, the big Lobowski, something about Mary.

But more I want to talk about Spawn, right? Because Spawn was basically like, this worked. Let's do this again. And guess what, bitch? It did work again. I'm sorry. I'm here for it.

This soundtrack fucking rules. They were like, what if it's not metal? It's Electro now. And I'm absolutely fucking here for it. The fucking corn and Dust Brothers song, Kick the PA. Yeah.

You want! Bruv. The Atari Teenage Riot song with Slayer. Slayer. With Slayer. No remorse. I want to die. Is Slayer the only continuity?

Yeah, only double. They're the icons. Your butthole surfers and Moby. Soul coughing and rony size. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that one's not. That one's not.

Holy shit. God, all utmost respect to soul coughing. We love soul coughing, but that song is not exactly amazing. And I don't think butthole surfers and Moby have stayed in touch. but what do you guys think? Did you like that soundtrack?

I haven't seen the movie. I own Spawn number one, the comic book. What's that worth these days? Probably like $15 to $25 million. Yeah. So I... So get that Cartier Tankwatch in the mail? That's right.

And rude, I promise. I was, I read the Todd McFarland Spider-Spital and I was growing up. He left to go launch a new comic book's company. called Image. Spawn was one of the signature titles. I was all in on Spawn. And then I went to go see the Spawn film. And I was all out on Spawn. And I, this, this soundtrack went right over my head.

The Pearl Jam. Is this? Oh, you look on some Henry Roll and shit. Electronic music isn't real. I mean, I don't feel that way, but I didn't really get this era of it or this version of it. This kind of like more industrial agro version of it. Oh, I love. That's my favorite.

version of it. I have problems, I think. Perhaps I have psychological problems that's like, I can see, I can see, I'm going me on. Anyways, this is the beginning of the end of the beautiful heyday that we know it of 1993. Pretty soon the pages will turn and we will be, I mean, we got, we didn't, I can't believe we didn't even mention deaf tones. But anyways, that's fine.

They kind of are in their own category and they were going for a lot, long. longer than this has nothing really probably to do with them. But I just have to say it's some good stuff did indoor through the thing. But yeah, we get into rap rock. We get into the fucking, you know, Lincoln Park of it all. Happy Walters and Amanda Demi also put out the first incubus off. I like the framing. This is not the future of rap.

It's the future of rock. I think that's a lovely way to frame the judgment night long tail. Do you think this killed rock music though? because the future of rock, quote, unquote, only lasted maybe 10 more years. And then we just started recycling. Then we were like, hey, here's the strokes, which wasn't exactly pushing genre, right? Can we all agree? We like the strokes, but they weren't reinventing the wheel percent.

I used to really resist the, and Rob, I'm sure we had, we talked about this over beers 15 years ago or something. But I used to really resist the Rock is dead or what killed? killed rock kind of discussion. But actually now I feel like it's okay to just acknowledge that it is like in seventh place in American musical genres, which is just remarkable. Behind poker. Like, oh shit. No, literally.

Look at the Spotify charts right now. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's amazing. There's not like really amazing new thing coming out of like, oh, God, it's like, peso-y. Oh, Pesopuma. Yeah. I mean, it's literally Latin and Mexican-American music is the closest that we have to kind of popular, like, rock-inflicted music, because it's very fokey.

Yeah. But it's cool. It is cool. It bangs. I like it's good, but it's like it is not, that's the first new iteration of popular, like, non-Ed Shearin, Taylor Swift genre, like rock music that we've had in 10 years. I mean, it's been a long time. You're saying folklore didn't say rock music. My thoughts are better left unrecorded on that.

Let's not talk about the national right now. But please, I don't deserve this. Okay? I already endured the national. I apologize. For a long time, the national, the cultural appropriation as a musical or whatever, gentrification is a musical. At some point, I stumbled across like a radio charts of the top 10

most popular rock songs played on rock radio. in the 2010s, right, from 2010 to 2020 or 2010 to 2019. And it's, are we imagining dragons? No, it is all songs from 1991 to 94. It's like, it's Nirvana, man in the box, I think is number one. Alison Chainsman. Man in the box. Yeah.

Yes. Yes. Maybe that's number. I probably number one is just smells like teen spirit, but man in a boss is number two. That's 1990. There's like a couple green day or offsprits. songs from 94 and that's the window. That's what is playing on rock radio right now.

And so there's a case to be made for 1994 being like a kind of death where the recycling kicks in as you say. You know, unless you're willing to grant rap rock status as rock. I think we get one last thing with Brit Pop. I'll make that argument. because Oasis's like peak is kind of 96. Yeah, 95, 96, right. Okay, sure, sure.

So I think it's really like by 98. It's like, did you guys see the clip over the weekend of Noel watching Man City in a bar and people after the match singing don't look back in anger like at him? It was honestly one of the best pieces of content I've seen. Was he mad? He was delighted. No, he was so happy.

Okay. Thing that we don't care about, but we can't deny as extremely popular is, the rock music of like 21 pilots, Imagine Dragons, the killers, Portugal the man. Pop punk,

you could argue, is influential-ish. Yeah. The Olivia Rodriguez of it all. But yeah, that's... Paramour. Paramar.

Yeah. Paramore. There are active rock bands that are successful, but most of them, their origins are pre-20-20 years. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, thanks for fucking lot. Happy Walters. just kidding. You guys know the whole Happy Walter story. Well, there's a couple quick things about him. One, Happy Gilmore named after Happy Walters. Adam Sandler and Happy Walters were good friends. Adam Sandler was his best man at his wedding in the 90s.

I did not. That's awesome. I didn't know he became like a sports agent. He became a sports agent. In fact, I believe he was responsible for the contract that Amari Stoutemeyer signed with the New York Knicks. He represented some major athletes in the 2000s. That's something to be proud of. Is he the most interesting man alive?

I'm like literally think about this career. It's so bizarre. He's touched to the hot, molten core of a couple of really important moments in the last 30 years. He is presently a consultant with the Indiana Pacers. He's from Four Wayne, Indiana.

I did know that because I lurked his Instagram and he has a super hot blonde wife and gorgeous children. Congratulations, happy Wolters. Even in the Rolling Stone piece about this album, he's like, ah, the music, I don't know. I was more of a business guy.

It's like, you changed music forever. because fucking What's His face was wearing a Michigan shirt and he had graduated the most insane story I've ever heard in my life. Isn't that the record industry in a nutshell though? It's like, it's not really about taste. It's not about art. It's like, who'd you meet? It's about Michigan. It is about Michigan. Does that bother you as an Ohioan? I don't care, man. Okay. It's fine. Touched a nerfer. I knew you guys would bring it back to sports. Well, I do feel, we've talked about all there is to talk about here. Was this successful in your view, Yassi? Do you concede? I think I had a great time.

Likewise. What are we? What's the next soundtrack? What do you, what do you think? I told Justin Sales that this was a short one. I would only take two hours and he was like, okay, for us, that's really long. And I was like, sorry about it.

We had to do it justice. I really want to do City of Angels next because you know how I feel about Seth, the angel played by Nicholas Cage and the, story of that film and how it's a remake of a Wim Wenders movie and how the god Rob Caballo who is maybe the other biggest soundtrack producer would you guys agree he did so many he did clueless he did so many iconic ones um he did it and i'd like to talk about that i'd let's talk about the tea on the al land alinous morris that song on there this podcast is longer than judgment night the movie now officially and that's that's remarkable thank god honestly judgment night was

really long. 109 minutes. I was like, is this necessary? The wind chimes? This is exactly the point in the movie when they fight amidst the wind chimes.

Yes. This is the last thing I want to talk about. You guys, not that I've like spent a ton of time in Cabrini Green, but like what establishment sells French fries fast food, groceries and then has a robust wind chimes. Sporting goods.

Yeah. It's like a, it's like a market. Like a north. In Columbus, it's the north. Market. Yeah, it's like different floors and like, yeah, man.

You have one of those? We have it. It's like the hipster place to get to get like, you know, food truck type fare. This is 2023. This does not translate. There's a wonderful film from 1947 called The Lady from Shanghai. Judgment Night. It stars Orson Wells and Rita Hayworth.

And they were married at the time when they made it. And the conclusion of the film takes place in a fun house hall of mirrors. It's one of the best. ending movie endings of all time. And I think this was an homage to it, but with wind chimes. Like I genuinely think that that's what they were thinking was that this was an homage to that sequence. Because there's the shots of, of Dennis Leary with like his face

distorting through glass. Like he's getting real already. Okay. All right. Okay. A lot of wind chimes. I'm not seen that cited. It was, this is just my reading that I've made. Not Emilio Estevez's dumbass facking when Dennis Larry's about to fall off and die. That was weird. Oops. Yeah.

By, are you going to help me? And he's like, I'm going to help you. And he's like, I knew you would do the right thing. And it's like, we get it. He's the good guy. We've already, it's been established. We don't, like, he, is he stupid also? It's pretty stupid, I have to say.

It's not a great film. Last question. Do you guys feel that your friends who want to go now have more brawls in the streets, look down upon you since you've become family men? Absolutely. They do. Were they like, you used to be cool.

I never used to be cool, which I think is established on account of my fear of everything. And so I don't think nobody's disappointed in me because I've been like this my entire life. Our friend Tom Bryan once said to me that I was like the most dad-like non-dad. He literally were born a dad. I can tell that. Sean too, honestly, this is the first thing I said to Sean where I was like you're, it's you have that comforting dad energy, which is really good in a boss. Thanks for saying that, I think.

Can I tell you a quick story? I was at a party this weekend, and at the party, a very close friend of mine's sister, who was also a close friend of mine, was telling me a story that they had heard about me. And here's the story. Someone who used to work at the ringer asked for me to connect them with this close friend of mine, not realizing that they were a close friend thinking that they were just a colleague. And when this person learned that I was friends with this person they were asking for advice,

they were like, that's shocking to me that Sean has friends. I only think of him as a dad. And I wasn't even a father at that time. I was just like a 36-year-old website editor. That is so rude. It's pretty rude. Pretty harsh. It wasn't me just to clarify.

I'm not involved in this story. You aren't involved. No, don't worry. Thank goodness. I don't think he had friends is the meanest thing that you could say about somebody. That being said, my friends do mercilessly mock. me for no longer having fights in the street because I am the father of a daughter. This has been a beautiful meditation on toxic masculinity, and I really thank you both for joining

me, Sean Fennessey and Rob Harvilla. This will undoubtedly be the highest rated episode of Banspland because everyone likes you guys better than they like me. No. Patriarchy, bitch. Thank you again for joining us. Come back next week for a new episode of Banspland. If you liked what you heard today, subscribe for more episodes of Bansplain.

Our guests today were The King Dads, Rob Harvilla, and Sean Fennessey. You can follow them on Twitter at Harvilla and at Sean Fennancy, respectively. This episode was produced by Jesse Miller Gordon and edited by Chris Sutton with help from Justin Sales. Executive producers for Bansplaine are Gina Delback and me, Yossi Salek. gorgeous and catchy theme song was composed and performed by Bethany Cozantino and Jennifer Claven, graciously recorded by Carlos de la Garza in Los Angeles, California. Special thanks to our producer emeritus, producer Dylan, aka Dylan Tupper Rupert, and also Casey Simonsonson, Robert Adler, Leah Edwards, David McDenna, Dana Mearsson, Jessica

Hopper, and Coconut Pocky. Come back every Thursday for a new episode of BandSplain on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. I