Bandsplain - Life Without Buildings with Blondshell

Episode Date: April 23, 2026

Recorded live at the Treefort Music Fest in Boise, Yasi is joined by Sabrina Teitelbaum (a.k.a. Blondshell) to dig into Life Without Buildings, the Scottish cult band whose single and singular 2001 album, 'Any Other City,' is still worth talking about today. They discuss the band’s jagged sound, their art school roots, and the second life they found when “The Leanover” went viral on TikTok two decades after it was released. CREDITS:Host: Yasi Salek @yasisalekGuest: Sabrina Teitelbaum @blondshellProducer: Rob SundermannEditor: Adrian BridgesAdditional Production Supervision: Justin SaylesTheme Song: Bethany Cosentino Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's with this band anyway? I don't get it. Can you please explain? Wait, like, Bansplain? Hello and welcome to Bansplain. How are you? What's up, Boise? Is it Boise? You guys, I'm so sorry. It's so inappropriate that I don't know that yet. Who did?

Jewel, like my hands are small, I know. That one? I gotta get into that part of the discography. I feel like it's slightly inauthentic for us to hit it with Boise. Like when people say Los Angeles, like that? Well, yeah, kind of. I don't know. I don't know if there's an ethnic flair to it being Boisey or Boisey. Well, it's French.

Okay, you can't be racist against French people. That's not possible. Okay, true. Really loving the vibes here, you guys. I gotta say, okay. Proud, proud town. All I did today was shop, if I'm being honest, but I scored. I went to Graveyard Vintage.

Shout out Graveyard Vintage. Got an amazing urge overkill shirt, which I genuinely feel like I stole from them because the price was so low. And you bought me a sweatshirt. I bought you a sweatshirt. It said, Talentless. And then the back said, please wash your hands. Yeah. In fairness, I send it to you being like, this is my sweatshirt of my life.

and you were like, can I have it? I was like, you could buy it for me instead. Famously talented, but yeah, you can have it. What else did I do? I ate at Jersey mics. I sampled the local cuisine. I didn't have time. I'm sorry.

Someone sent me a really long list of good restaurants, and I was like, there's a Jersey mics right here, so we're just going to get a quick mic's way and hit the road. Thank you guys for coming out. I'm sure there's like eight really cool bands playing right now, and you guys made the choice to come listen to me and my beautiful guest here. Sabrina Titlebaum talk about life without buildings.

That's what we're talking about today. Okay, was that like you guys are just clapping because you're just happy to be here or you actually know what this band is? Yeah, like you guys know the music. Okay, amazing. And who caught producer Dylan live and in the building just before us?

And they're fabulous podcast music people. Shout out, producer Dillon always. The wind beneath my wings still. All right, Sabrina, should we get into it? Yeah. Oh, you guys, I'm so sorry. This is going to be five hours. I hope you didn't make plans.

Well, you're going to be here at the turn of midnight. With the extensive discography. Yeah. Imagine. Imagine like, actually, we're doing guided by voices. We're going to be here until Sunday. Hope you brought snacks. Just analyze every single word of that one album.

Sabrina. Yeah, see. Can you tell me? about your personal history with life without building. Did I even say that you do Blanchel? She's also known as Blanchol. I'm sorry. Okay, so my personal history is basically,

I was on tour like four years ago, and we were in the van, and somebody else who's not me was sitting in the front, picking the music, and it was Juno. And I was like, what is this? I really like this. But I didn't look into it. I didn't listen to the record.

Nothing. I just was like, oh, I really like the song and has like a weird name. And it's stuck in my head. And then I would say like two years later, I was walking my dog. And for some reason, I was like, oh, I'm going to revisit that album that I heard on tour. It just came into your mind. Yeah. And I listened to sorrow, which I think is like maybe the last song on that record.

I'm not a kind of listener like I go through every song in order. Okay. I just like bop around based on the title. It's really fine that they meticulously sequenced that album. Probably took hours or days to do that. I myself care about album sequencing. Not even your own? Like no, I do care about like when it's my own like I care about.

You're like when you listen to Blonde show, you better be listening in order. But when I do it, I can do it. Yes. Like the seconds at the end, Matt. how long it is from one to another when I'm listening to someone else's I'm like I like that title or I don't like that title and that's how I'm going to listen so I listen to sorrow yeah and I was walking in the old Los Felis yes yes please correct yeah and I was just like holy shit this person's voice it's not like an intellectualized thing you just listen to

something you're like oh my life is suddenly better yeah I've gone from having a horrendous day to life is beautiful and every step I take his piece. Wow. And it was just simply one of those things. And then from there, I went back and was like, okay, now I actually have to listen to the record. And then had the sad discovery that there is only, in fact, one record. Simply one.

There's simply one record and a live record. For like an overview, you guys, Live Without Buildings is a Scottish band. They're from Glasgow. They formed in 99, released one album and broke up in 2002. But I think there's a lot of merit to talking about them today because this one album is actually really, well, as Sabrina said, incredible, but also like kind of unlike anything I think that had come out at the time. And I think it kind of launched a bunch of ships of different artists that coming into the 2000s, I can really hear a bit of that influence. or if it's not influenced, at least like the wave of a thing that was starting.

Also, a reason to talk about it is because they went viral on TikTok. And are reuniting. And are reuniting? I don't know if it's because they went viral on TikTok, although I'm sure. When did they go viral on TikTok? So it's been, they're reuniting because they were on a subsidiary of Rough Trade, and it's the Rough Trade 50-year anniversary in November. So they're reuniting.

But I'm sure the TikTok virality didn't. hurt. I'm sure Roughrade's not like phoning up XYZ band that made one album and no one gives a fuck about it. Yeah. 30 years later or whatever. No, so true. Well, let's take it from the top of as we do. 1999. It's the summer. There are a few men. Will Bradley, Chris Evans and Robert

Johnson. Johnston. Chris Evans. Isn't that also an actor? Yeah, as a Captain America. Is it not? Same guy. Same guy. Yeah, he was also in Life Without Building. He has a diverse and storied career. Looks amazing. When you look at Captain America, is it giving you made some bizarre post-punk in 1999? No.

You know what my favorite? One of this, we were talking about it. You guys watched The Pit? Hell yeah, brothers. I know. I got to rush home right after this. Sorry. I also can't see any bands.

Got to catch up in the pit. But Dr. Abbott, Sean Hadassie, was in bands before he was acting. Like, were they good? Even with my exceptional skill set, I could not unearth any audio. If anyone out there listening to this podcast, just by a miracle, was in a band with Sean Hatticey in the 90s, he said one sounded like tool. Bang my line, babe, I need to hear these. Desperate to hear it.

Desperate. Anyways, we've digressed. So these three men were ex-students of the, well, I think two of them were ex-students of the Glasgow School of Art, but they were still kind of banging. around Glasgow, decided to start a band. They named it Life Without Buildings after a song. It was a 1981 B-side by the group Japan, the English New Wave band. They didn't actually particularly like Japan, I think. They just liked the name of that song. Do you feel that's a good band name? Life Without Buildings? Um, yes. Here's my problem. This is my only problem. Life Without Buildings.

Yeah. And their one album name, Any Other City, are confusing because they're both have that like city, like city concrete vibe comes to mind. So for a while there, I was like, is the band any other city or is the band? Yeah, it's a lot of like, what's the album? What's the energy? It's good, though. I'm not traditionally a huge fan of like sentence band names.

Because it's like a little bit giving like we're playing third stage at the Warp Tour, come on down. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. It's a little like intellectualized. Yeah. I've talked about it here before. But if I had a band like that, third stage at Warp Tour, my band name is Corner of Salas. I'm shocked that that doesn't exist.

I know. Don't take it, you guys. There's still time for me to form my third stage warp tour band. Okay. So Robert said, I was at the Glasgow School of Art around the same time as Sue. Sue Tompkins, the singer, but didn't really know them very well to later when we're all involved in the scene

so that Sue Tompkins was in an art collective. It was called Elizabeth Goh. She had a couple of other female women with a Y artists with her, including her twin sister Haley Tompkins.

Cute. From what I understand, she was already doing a similar, form of the art she continues to do this day it's a performance art which involves spoken word which so they saw her kind of doing this and they were like she should we need a singer she should be our singer and the reason they needed a singer was because they had started a band just in theory like i often do um with not writing one note of music rehearsing or doing anything and they got asked to

play a show and they're like okay we're going to need a few songs and also probably a singer they also said, Robert said, drunken conversations about the go-betweens. Love them. And that kind of thing. And the Red House painters. Love. Tarnished, I know, but we can still say,

we like the music. But maybe if you separate. The art from the artist. Yeah. Which I famously am quite comfortable doing. And Nick Drake and that kind of stuff. So they were kind of inspired by this world of music. And then also, there was a lot of talk about joy division.

Which, by the way, every single one of the bands and artists you just named are entirely different. Yeah. I guess there's like the Red House Painters Nick Drake kind of similarity in a way. Beautiful sounding man. Sad music. Sad, clear guitar tones. Without you is all my life amounts to. Go-betweens is so, like, I mean, it's not happy music, but like, upbeat acoustic driving stuff.

And then Joy Division is obviously entirely different post-punk guitar tone sound. Something you said to me before we came out here was that you feel like the thing with those references, even though they're so different, is that they all kind of have that same vibe. Yeah, they give you a similar feeling. I think that they were taking feelings.

And also like, I mean, we'll get into it. We'll talk more about the album, but there's like an austereness to the production that reminds me a little of Joy Division, even if it doesn't musically sound the same. Anyhood, you guys, we've just formed the band, though. We're forming the band. And they play their first show.

They read a couple of songs, I believe it was three. And they have their first show in Glasgow. And then they've started playing a couple of shows here and there. And they play their first show in London in late 99. Robert said, like, oh, we just did it because people asked us to. They have a real forest gum past story over here where they're just like, Like, we made a band. It had a cool name.

Then we found our singer. And then people have to do shows. Also, like, we have three songs and we're playing a show. Only in the 90s or before that, could you play a show and have your set length be 12 minutes? Yeah. Like, that would not happen today. It's like 40 minutes, no less. Because people want their money back.

Yes. Because they're like, could you just do it twice? Yeah. I mean. I really like it when a band plays the same song twice. I don't know that I've actually ever seen that happen. Military gun does it all the time. And I love it.

Really? Oh, my God. I love that song God God owes me money. So fucking good. That whole album is so good. I would want them to just play it over and over again. But I feel more bands to do this if you guys are listening. Maybe I'll do that.

Do it. Like what's your like, hit? I don't know. I mean, if it was me picking, I would say do Olympus twice. It's kind of a downer. It's a little doubt. Yeah.

It's a downer. Anyways. You can't do it depressing music. Play the jam twice. Everyone loves it. I don't, this is not what they did though. They played it, I believe, a 13 minutes at. Anyway, so they do this London show.

And I did some digging, as is my. I want because in the greater story it's like and then they just got a Rough Trade single and I was like that's something's that doesn't not even in 1999 does that happen like you just play one show in London someone's like would you like to put out

a seven inch? Will Bradley the drummer's old roommate and bandmate this guy Glenn Johnson was the label manager at Rough Trade and so he was like what up Glenn bro not talked in a while

I have a band and Glenn was like okay I'll listen and he said this is his quote my initial reaction to that tape was one of perplexity sparse cable tight songs with complex angular signatures

that reminded me much of the go-betweens before Hollywood album a lot Glenn heard go-betweens aloft though who talks like this what I perceived to be some kind of carawakian stream of consciousness and poetry

spat with Tigger-like enthusiasm by vocalist Sue Tomkins. Man, he described it way better than I could have, TBQH. Was it good? Was it bad? Was it genius? And needed a second opinion. I kind of love that, though, because this is a polarizing band. I do feel like when you hear this band the first time, it's not like some other bands

where you're like, okay, like this is very legible to me. It's immediately kind of like, wait, what? I have a hot take. Please. I think if you have good. taste. Okay. And you hear this band, it's not polarizing. I think if it's 2026. That's my hot take. It's amazing guitar parts and guitar hooks. And every tone is fantastic. It's just a band in a tight room. Everybody's in one room. Yeah. Vocals are great. Lyrics are great. The vocals are

great, but they are odd. Odd in that they're spoken. But it's not like Bjork singing. No, no. But it's like, remember like there's no dry cleaning yet. You know what I mean? Like, I think it's impossible to like maybe hear it before this was like so much of a thing. Although I mean, it reminds me a little. It's a little slitsy too, which no one mentions. But I don't know. Tell me if I'm being crazy because you know famously I don't actually understand music, which is an absolute fucking miracle that this is the job that God gave me.

Like when I'm listening, I hear American football. Like in the music part, like the guitar parts to me sound really kind of American footbally. Am I crazy? You're not crazy. They're also both. I know from reading that the guys in the band don't want to be called math rock. But that's what kind of a member football was doing too, right? Yeah, both of them have like odd time signatures.

It sounds right as a listener because even if something has an odd time signature, it should still feel right. You should never listen to music even if it's math rock and be like, okay, now I'm following long, now here we are again. Like it feels normal. Also, you've come out against noise rock here on this podcast. Yes. You've come out against Shalak.

Yes. Okay. But what I'm saying is like both of those bands have complicated sort of intricate time signatures and arrangements that sound very natural. Yeah. And the guitar tones are something too. So I'm not crazy. No.

Yeah, I really hear that. Anyways, back to good old Glenn. Glenn was like, I needed a second opinion. So I handed the tape to Jeff Travis, famously head of rough trade, signed the smiths, etc. and waited. It didn't take long. What is this? Where did you find it?

Followed by a sharp volume increase on the stereo, which was back then, rough trade shorthand for Pass the Checkbook. I like that a little bit. I like that. That's, yeah, I like that a lot. So they passed the checkbook on over, and they put out the first single,

which was the leanover, B slash W. Miss Viral. Newtown. The leanover, if you guys don't know, is the song that went viral on TikTok I mean

I'm not a TikTok but I just myself just recently made a get ready with me video I see you on there with that camera all the time all the time yeah it's like back

on the front facing camera I love the front facing camera not enough that I'm good at it but enough that I will ask you to get ready with me for the angel dust show I feel like if you're above 17

it is not natural to make TikToks. Yeah, I agree. Also, I'm like, what are these people of fucking Steven Spielberg? Like, I don't have time to, like, edit this. Like, how much time does it?

Takes me like three hours to edit. Also, I feel like they just have these, like, suction cups, and then the camera will be like, on the ceiling or on the computer. Do you have it? I bought some suction cups. There you go. You should put on the,

how are you going to get ready with me if it's not on the mirror? Anyways, bachelor to lean over. I don't want to talk about the songs right now because I want to do it in the context of the album, but I'll just know they put out three singles and they were all produced by a guy named Andy Miller who has done a lot of stuff, but prior to that, I think maybe the biggest things he had done was he worked on the first three Maguire albums, another Glasgowian legend.

Right before the album comes out of it, I believe it was right before. Life Without Buildings Open for the Strokes. The Strokes first ever, I believe, gig in London. There's like a whole myth that it was supposed to be life without buildings headlining and the strokes like bumped them down but they say that's not true. They did say that this is robbery. He said all I remember is breaking a string. The drummer guy was nice and the others were a bit Marty. What does Marty mean? Marty is like bad adage like well of course like but we know that like little bitches basically. Yeah. I'm just I'm simply quoting. I'm wasn't there. I don't know what Julian Casablanca's was getting up to at the Camden Monarch in February of

2001. Will Bradley was like, we didn't play with them in any meaningful way. It was a booking accident. I remember watching them for a few minutes. Then I remember leaving. Damn, drag their ass to hell. He was like, that's fine. Sometimes we really connected with brilliant bands we met on tour, like 99 from Melbourne or the Desert Arts from Belfast. I love him he was just like, fuck the strokes. He even said, whatever the strokes were in my mind, at least, we were a fundamentally different kind of thing. If we were where they were, then we were clearly in the wrong place. That's true. I think so.

You know, I didn't see it mentioned anywhere, but another band I hear a lot of that I guess I'd have to, I should have to look this up before, but I think was either contemporaneous to Life Without Buildings or a bit after is Block Party. I think of them as a bit after, but maybe that's just because they're industrial sounding and. Life Without Buildings is so not. Formed in 1999, same time. That's crazy. They feel so much later to me because, well, I guess also maybe it's just I don't know, they feel more like they played

so many American festivals. Well, they lasted much longer than Life Without Buildings. But I hear a similar, you know, like staccato-ness sometimes to the vocals of Block Party. When did Silent Alarm come out? This is like a real cool t-shirt name three songs moment for me.

Sorry. Sorry. Okay. See, this is why I feel like they're later because Life Without Buildings had already put the record out and broken up by the time that Block Party had silent alarm, which was really like kind of the big record. Totally, which actually bolsters my theory that perhaps they were influenced by them. Because they would have definitely, I think, known about Life Without Buildings.

I don't want to put words into Block Party's mouth. But for a second that Block Party existed, they were covered by an enemy and the British. press. Yeah, I could see it. All right, any other city is the singular album, February 26, 2001, Tugboat Records, subsidiary of Rough Trade, Andy Miller is producing. I want to talk a bit about what they said about the inspiration. Robert Johnson said, I was listening to a lot of American kind of post-rocky stuff and earlier post-punk stuff, things like Don Caballero, Mission of Burma, but we all had very wide tastes and a pretty keen ear for pop. Sue listened to TIE, TLC and a lot of R&B stuff.

I want to ask about this. So basically Sue Tompkins said multiple times, like, oh, that's cool that you guys like the fall. I don't know who that is. Like she was not into this kind of music. She really just liked pop music and TLC. Do you feel like as a vocalist, knowing that that was her inspiration,

like, does it make sense to you to hear what she does with that? It literally makes no sense. Even a little bit that it sounds like rapping. It doesn't sound like wrapping to me. It sounds sort of like scatting to me. How come it's cool when she does it and not when Anthony Kitas does it? I must ask you. It's so true.

You know what? I think it's cool. I think it's cool. I think he does it. I'm just asking the broader question. It feels so of a lineage of, I'm sorry to bring it here, but just like, women vocalists having that sort of attention to detail that you just don't really get from men vocalists from that time. You don't think ding, dang, ding dong, ding, dang, ding, dang, ding dang, ding dang, was like a really inspired use of wordplay.

Very, very. But I feel like there was sort of that, like, okay, we're not allowed to do a lot of stuff, but what we are allowed to do is be like really esoteric and talk about. like kind of a stream of consciousness way of writing. I don't know. But very interesting. She said it wasn't at all stream of consciousness. It's all very carefully crafted. She wrote and rewrote and made like,

which actually makes so much sense to me because like you were saying earlier, like when you hear this, it doesn't contradict itself, like the music itself, but also I think the combination. It's because the way, way she places the words atop the music is like in conversation to me. I think that's the only

element. That's supposed to be there. Yes. That's the only element that to me makes the rap reference makes sense because she's a rapper. She's basically a rapper. But it's sort of like you listen to it and when I started hearing that record for the first time I was like there's just no way that any of this is planned out. You say the same word 50 times and every time you say it, it's a different delivery. And so I was like, this is obviously just like she's scatting on top of this stuff, whatever comes to mind. But it's not a freestyle thing. It's very planned out. And that's the only thing that sort of reminds me of some types of rap because I feel like it's made to feel off the cuff.

And it completely works. All the diction, all the delivery makes it feel so off the cuff. That's that. That's the TikTok viral song, F.W. So random, because that's not like a standout song to me from the record. I think it's a standout song to me, but it lends itself to girls lip syncing. It's mostly women, lip syncing. I mean, like what I was just doing.

Like that part, you know? It's sassy. I'm sorry. Okay. So back to their influences. They also said, bit of the Smith, the fall, velvets, which we were texting earlier. burning podcast material, that a lot of their guitar

and especially drums, I think, kind of simple drums sound like Mo Tucker's Velvet Underground. Modern lovers, television. He also said, we were really anxious not to be perceived as an art band. And it's like, well, good fucking, like, babe. Can you hear yourselves?

Literally what it is. What did you think you were going to sound like? Metal? Like, this is the definition of an R rock band. Yeah He also said Sue had never heard Patty Smith or the slits before she joined the band I don't buy that

I kind of do why would she lie Well I don't think she lied I'm just like does he have the story straight Because it sounds like horses To me Things can sound like a thing While being in a vacuum But it's Patty Smith it's not like somebody today

Being like oh I haven't heard of this band that had I'm sure she had heard of Patty Smith but she would have had to like go and sit and listen to it and she was busy listening to the radio I just feel like maybe it's one of those things where like she wasn't a fan but it was just in the ether like maybe because the night sort of like big songs were just around maybe in 1999 89 99 well if you if it's if it's 1999 getting played you grew up with that music yeah she was was born in 71 so in 99 she would have been like 28 or whatever so the timing kind of checks out Yeah, okay.

So you're calling her a liar. I'm not calling her a liar. I'm saying somebody doesn't have the story straight. Nobody lied. Sue Tomkins, Sabrina Titlebaum from Blanchel has just called you a liar. No, she's actually... Sabrina Titlebaum from Blanchel literally loves you. She would like to do a duel with you.

Stop lying. This is a quote from Sue. I've not really heard the fall, but I saw Marky Smith do a song about a telephone on the old gray whistle test with cold cut, and I thought he was pretty great. That was cute. was like in in 2001 or whatever um it's interesting they were also really into like techno and like warp records and stuff but i also don't hear any of that in here i don't think they did it i think

they were going to they were thinking about putting synths or put drum machine they just didn't ever do it i can hear that another band they referenced was noi and that actually makes so much sense to me okay say more are you a noy girl not really but not distinctly not anyways i like no a lot. Noise, like, for me, very like smooth brain lobotomy music sometimes, even though it's very complicated, but I just put it on. I'm like, that's right. No thoughts. I could hear that in the drums. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for bringing it back to music. They also listen a lot to Missy Elliott. Rap. Really? I just have no concept of time because Missy Elliott feels, okay, you know why it is? It's because when I grew up, I was listening to Missy

Elliott. It's also because how old were you in 1989? Two. Yeah. That's why. I was listening to Miss Elliott, and that was my shit, and I didn't find Life Without Buildings until, like, two years ago. Yeah. So in my mind, I'm like, it's entirely different things. No, this was big, Miss Elyle.

Thanks for bringing that timeline. It was a little post her, like, I can't stand the random TV big moment. I think that was like more mid-90s. So Sue had taste. Sue had great taste. You mentioned esoteric. She was very into esoteric, quote, literature. Queen.

I thought it was really interesting the way they write the songs. So basically Will said, Rob Chris and me would jam out more or less finished tracks than Sue would come down and listen. If she was feeling it,

a song could come together quickly with maybe a few easy changes. If she wasn't, the only option was to ditch the whole thing and start again. She was kind of the boss. Big time. What kind of makes sense?

Because if you're going to write lyrics in that way and you're like, oh, I'm not fucking with this song. Like, how could you do what she does over it? Yeah. Okay, I wanted to ask you a question. So you guys heard lean over.

I want you to know that's like five full minutes of like, uh-huh, uh-huh. If I lose you, if I lose you. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. How do you do that live the same all the time? She doesn't. So here's the thing.

Everybody thinks it's so stream of consciousness because there's so much repetition. Yeah. But I think it's structured that way with all of the repetition and all of the bringing stuff back that started at the beginning of the song at the end of the song because it creates the freedom for her to do a different delivery every time. Like I think if she played 10 shows, she might have that structure to fall back on of like, here are the lyrics. But she would be like, okay, my freedom for performing this song and the performance art. aspect of it is me being able to do like uh-huh versus uh-huh you know what i mean kind of her delivery the lyrics are the same she'll know the structure like you're learning a song okay but the delivery each time is like i felt like saying it this way right no i felt like saying it this way i think it's just

more like keeping up like she's constantly there's like no real breaks in her delivering her vocals. How do you, how do you, how do you, like, you can't say a totally different thing. Like, yeah, you can say a haunt differently or if I lose you differently, but you have to say the thing and there's so many lyrics. I saw a video of them playing live and she had, she has lyrics next to her. She like is going through the sheets. Like she can't do it. I don't think she could do it without referencing. But I think that's the scaffolding, basically, for her performance. And then the art for her is being like okay now that I have these parameters I get to play around right yeah and there's a muscle memory aspect to it too right where like the if I lose if I lose if you lose uh-huh

uh-huh uh-huh like you don't just think about it you just remember that your brain just remembers it right it does it's like percussive it almost feels like playing an instrument yeah so maybe it feels like the same way you always remember how to play your guitar or whatever I think so Here's what Sue said. When we were in rehearsal, the way we used to work was the guys would do the music and play constantly to me. But I used to really enjoy that. It was no pressure.

Looking back, they were incredibly patient and natural about it. It was a very natural thing. It's like they let me absorb. It was the only way for me to get into what they were doing. Could have been electronic, could have been more percussive, could have been anything. They let me absorb myself in it and then be able to start to go. Okay, I've got an idea in my head that goes with that. And then I would make notes about that and then type them all up and then go to the guys

with just mega piles of A4 pads of stuff. A4, UK. Absorption, I think, is such a good word. Because as much as I think she is very particular, clearly in refining about exactly what words go where, it feels a little bit like speaking in tongues. You know what I mean? You get caught up in a thing.

And then it's just like, she's like, oh, I'm fully in this and this is what came out, you know? Yeah. I mean, I think that's the sort of. of hypnotic element of it for us listening. But maybe not for her doing it. I don't know. I have to imagine, I don't know if she said anything about it,

but I have to imagine that if it feels so comfortable to us, that hypnotic part of it that makes us feel like we're not, like I wouldn't listen to one of those songs and think to myself, okay, this is the 46th time I've heard this word. You're just like in that world. And so I think that that has. has to be sort of intentional, but not in like a calculated. I'm trying to get people to like my songs by making them hypnotic way.

More in like a, I need to create this world for myself to survive for some reason. I wonder how much you like dissociate from reality when you're doing that, you know, or from like even the words, like, you know what you say the same word over and over again? And it's like no longer a thing. When you listen to the lean over all the way through, you start to hear different things. Like if I lose you, it starts to sound like illusion. Some people thought it sounded like Fallujah Street. Yeah, elusive.

It just starts to completely, every time you listen to it, it's like different words, which is so cool. I can't think of another type of artist that I hear that in. I kind of feel like that with some of the pixies stuff where I'll think I knew what the lyric was. And then eight years later, I'll be like, oh, this is what they were saying. Yeah, I guess Black Francis is also kind of percussive in the way he. he punctuates. But like also kind of lazy with pronunciation? Yeah.

Will Bradley said about Sue. She's a genius. But beyond that, she has killer timing. She was never in the wrong place, never on the wrong beat. So much preparation and then also so many freestyle calculations. Nobody but Sue could explain how she does what she does. I think that's so cool. And it's like it's so cool.

When you hear it, it sounds like she's stuttering. But those are written stutters. She planned those. It also feels like today, most music that you hear is very, I think part of it is just like the collapse of the industry and the fact that the artist has to think about how to get people to hear the music constantly. There she goes. You invited me on this podcast.

I will be saying it. Artists have to wear nine million hats. And so it's kind of like, you do. So it's kind of like impossible to separate the fact that you're making music that you know you want people to hear. Right. But when I hear this and when I hear like sorrow and there's the line that's like, your eyes are like lotus leaves.

Yeah. There's, it's kind of like you're looking at two people having their own thing. You're like looking through the window. Yeah. Yeah. And she's, there is zero semblance of her writing this music thinking, oh, people are going to hear it. I don't think they did think people are going to hear it. I think that's like a big part of the story of the band and also a big part of why they

end up breaking up because I think this was just like a a fun laugh for them and then it got like again forest gummed its way into being like really serious all of a sudden and then they they were like well or not they sue tompkins in particular was like no thank you fire by the way I don't want to do this huh fire so sick so so so imagine like them being like you're in a cool band now me I'd be like thank you yes what I would she's like you know I never really felt it yeah she was like I want to go back to doing spoken word performance art so cool it's talked about a little bit about the austeriness of the production, but Robert said we did want the record to be quite unadorned. We were thinking about things like Marquis Moon television, that very dry, hard sound. I think we were too green to get that by the time of the album. Someone called the record mid-fi, which is probably accurate. It was high-fi recordings of a lo-fi band. I want to tell you what, when it came out, it had some mixed reviews. Very famously, the NME, the paper of music record, gave it a four. four out of ten and said, it's tough.

For some, the scrape of fingernails on a blackboard is an exquisite sensation. Dentist's drills provide a satisfying tingle. Animals dying in agony make a heavenly choir. And Sue Tompkins, idiosyncratic frontwoman of Life Without Buildings, makes a beautiful noise. Are you at least happy that they're not really allowed to be this mean anymore? Oh my God. Thank God.

I've thought about it so much. Thank God. Well, they're like, and she's ugly. No, literally. I mean, they still do that to some people. Do they? Yeah, but it's rare, which makes it like kind of more impactful when it happens. With the most love and respect, who's like who even cares about, who even reads music criticism, so much love and recite.

There's like three music critics that anyone cares about and everyone else is like, I didn't. I'm happy for you or I'm sorry that happened by and everything. This is a tough review. It's really mean. Okay, it's totally fine to be like, I hate the sound because it is polarizing. But then at the end, he's like, playing. she thinks she's Patty Smith reborn with an estuary accent.

It's giving jealous. I was like... It's literally giving jealous. First of all, what do you fucking miss... What was the psychic? Miss Cleo. I almost had Miss Claro, and I was like, no, Clareau.

A beloved and wonderful pop, beautiful artist. But maybe Miss Clara would be a really sick marketing thing for her to do. I bet you Miss Clero loves life without buildings. I see her Instagram post and she has good taste. She has a great taste. we love Clareau on this podcast. Anyways, Ms. Cleo, like, I'm like, how do you know what she thinks she is? Do you know her? No, literally. It's that, it's that classic thing of a man being like, I know what this woman's trying to be.

When you know, she was like, I've never heard Patty Smith, bitch. Literally. Also, estuary for you guys, I had to look it up. It's like a specific accent of a part of England. Just in case you were wondering what that word meant. It, like, actually makes me so annoyed to hear this. I've been retroactively extremely angry at a review written 25 years ago and publicly dragged the person on the podcast It's just like obnoxious intellectualizing of something that clearly just makes people feel good

Period Well I mean it was their job to give reviews I guess but this way of intellectualizing it And being like she has an estuary accent It just feels like it's missing the point Hers is the sound of a performance artist Having a self-conscious breakdown Again, it's like so wrong.

We just talked for like 10 minutes about how non-self-conscious it sounds to us. I don't want to say it, but it's men. No, literally. That's what I'm trying to say. Hashtag not all men, but definitely this man. The Guardian liked it. Gave it three stars kind of, you know, in vote. Oh, we didn't silence our.

Sorry, it's my grandma. Literally. Incredible stuff. Grandma's. Should we phone her in? Fuck no. Does she like your music? Yeah.

And she comes to some shows. Do you feel weird to talk about sucking dick in the bathroom when your grandma is at the show? Distinctly, yes. But she told me not to worry about that. Oh, yeah, cool grandma. Literally, I didn't bring it up because why would I do that to myself? And then one day she was just like, you know, you don't have to feel weird about that stuff. She also separates the art from the artist.

No, but the thing is, like my set just top to bottom is full of things you don't want your family to hear. Yeah. So I actually try to get them to not go to the shows. That's something that's smart. But then if the show goes really well, I'm like, I should have invited my family. I've talked about doing meth on this podcast, but famously my parents listen? Absolutely. They don't know what I'm on about.

So I think they've tried, but they're like, okay, that's nuts, lovely. Do they have the same music taste as you? Like similar? My parents? Some people have cool parents. Yeah, my parents love guided by boys. No, my parents are Iranian immigrants. My mom loves Madonna and Hadaway.

That's cool. My mom's like basically a gay man. And my dad, I actually, my dad loves like Anne Magnuson randomly and like Persian funeral music. All right, let's talk about the album. It opens up, I know you don't care about sequencing, but we're going to do it in an order if you don't mind. That's close.

P.S. exclusive. I want to just mention this song is a jam. It's an incredible. opening song and also within it Sue Tompkins repeats the words the right stuff 44 times the right stuff the right stuff I do feel like it's kind of no skips

I agree yeah also I was reading about her saying which ones are her favorite yeah and they're not the ones that are other people's favorite no she's like I like the short ones well it's because she doesn't want to listen to herself oh right right right right do you relate to that or do you just like bang Blanchel at the home at the home I have a very complicated relationship with it.

So it depends. So sometimes you're like, hell yeah. Sometimes I'm like, God sent me here to rock and roll. And sometimes I'm like, why do I, why am I doing this? Yeah, I think that's a common. I think it's normal. I can never listen to my own voice literally ever again. But there's a whole thing about that.

Like people are very uncomfortable. I'm very uncomfortable hearing my speaking voice. But not your singing voice. I've had to hear my singing voice a lot because when you record, You just have to like comp vocals, which takes hours of listening to your own voice. It's more like, I think of it like utility. But with my speaking voice, I'm like, I, it's nails on chalkboard. I recommend doing what me and producer Dylan had to do.

I mean, Perish Dillon didn't have to do it with her own voice. She unfortunately had to do with my voice. But in the first like three years of Bandsplaine, we had to listen to every episode multiple times before it came out. And I think my ego died. Yeah. Like completely. It was, I was just like, I was like, literally dissociating. I say like so many times.

No, I had, you know that galaxy brain meme? I was like, oh my God, my voice is annoying. And then it was like, oh, interesting. All of my thoughts and feelings are annoying. My personality is terrible. Everything about me is unbearable. And I should probably just walk into the ocean with my rocks in the pockets. And then I transcended. And then I was like, guess what? Who fucking cares? And that was your ego death. You like it? Ego death via podcast. Listen, you don't like it?

Leave a comment. I don't give a shit. You mentioned Juno was the first song you heard. That's like interesting. It kind of sounds the most normal on the album, actually. Yeah, I think I agree. It kind of sounds the most like that time and the most like kind of Scottish kind of post-punkky. And it doesn't feature as much of that kind of repetition.

It's more like vocal melodies. I mean, she does repeat a lot, but not as much as in the other ones. I like that one of the three lines on here is my lips are sealed. Okay, let's talk about the lean over now. I couldn't really get, obviously, how can you ever get to the bottom of why something goes viral on TikTok or how, like, who patient zero was? It's just up to God. God pick some weird whatons then. I know.

In my, none of that makes it to my algorithm. By the way, you guys, my algorithm is so fucking unhinged. If someone looked at my TikTok feed, I would be humiliated. No, me too. But sometimes I'm like, how did this happen? And then I look at the comments and it's like, I don't know what I could have possibly done to get me here on my FYP. No, but I know. Mine's like, do you want a quantum leap?

And I'm like, I do want a quantum leap. Or it's like absolute like brain dead content of like, I don't even know where these apartments exist where everything is white. and like a girl is just cleaning nightly reset oh yeah yeah yeah yeah and like the bowls of ice like ice in different shapes and it's like and i'm like you do this every night and i love it i want to live that life literally it feels like it feels like they've removed six layers of my fucking brain and it's just like beautiful smooth not a hair is conscious dolphin brain and then i'm sitting on the couch being like I know I should go wipe my fucking kitchen counter because that shit needs a wiping,

but I'm just gonna watch this bitch reset her life for the next day. Do you ever see those like make my nighttime cocktail? Oh my God. Tart cherry juice. It's always tart cherry juice, babe. Magnesium for powder, my nightly mock tail.

I'm like, God, please, why can't I be like this? I'm desperate to be that way. Come remove a chunk of my brain so I can, in my Stanley cup, chink, chink. Boop, boop. But yeah, that's my, that's my alcohol. Or like, do you ever get the, I'm going to mess it up?

The like, this is my five to nine before my nine to five. Oh, totally. I love that shit. Some of those are really depressing. Well, conceptually, it's all depressing. Sure. But the, I hate, again, I hate to be a misandrist. But when it's a man, it's always so fucking dark.

It's like some guy who's like in the saddest apartment you've ever seen that looks like, Brit housing. Yeah, like, preparing their, like, tupperware of, like, ground beef and rice. Raw chicken. Yeah, literally going on a run before they, like, pack their briefcase to go to their, like, mid-level finance job. And I'm like, why are you making content? Don't tell anybody about this. That's disgusting and sad.

And when women do it, it's cute and fun. It's something when women do it, but it's definitely not absolutely. I should start making my. This sad? My five to nine. You can't do it. The sad thing about it to me, even though I am a massive consumer of those TikToks, is the like, I'm optimizing my life in every waking moment.

It's an absolute optimization. Like, porn. Yeah. That is evil. Yeah. But then I also have a lot of TikToks about undoing the grip of capitalistic optimization on yourself. So I have a nice balance. Okay.

Put me on because I'm not on that side of TikTok. For your algorithm. Anyways, back to this TikTok. Can you help me? say this. Bebadooby? Thank you. You would like Bebadooby.

Yeah, I've heard it. It's good. She's good. And she's cool. She has incredible taste. She also covered a Sunday song, which brought her resurgence of the Sundays. I just haven't spent a lot of time listening to her music, but I, like I'm saying, in theory. She had that song that's like, I wish I was Stephen Malcolmis.

She has a phenomenal. She's a phenomenal taste. She's cool. And she, I do think she was like a big driver of this going viral because she, she has, She did the lip sing to it. And I think it like upticks like crazy after it because she has a huge following. Sue Tompkin said, I was immediately struck by the fact that it was predominantly young women getting into it and sharing their videos.

I was really moved by that and mostly how you could see them just purely expressing themselves and hopefully feeling loads of freedom. That's the cutest thing I've ever heard. I love that she was like these girls wearing like a bra and like goth makeup in the mirror like filming. like filming themselves is a beautiful and pure freedom of expression. I just like the term loads of freedom. Huh?

Maybe your band name could be loads of freedom. I feel like that has like a little entendre that I'm not comfortable. It definitely does. But that's what's kind of nice. Like whole. Yes. Different though.

Although I know that wasn't the I think it was more of the philosophical, the void. She said that makes me feel really excited. They feel they can do that and be seen so easily and excessively. Everything is open and somehow seems incredibly sensitive and sincere

and transparent at the same time. When I sang the song live in any context, really, whether it was in rehearsals with the band or actually recording it in the studio or live on stage, I think deep down I always felt a sense of freedom and energy and I used to like that. Yeah, it's nice.

Very moving. I want to say something, and I hope this doesn't make certain swaths of the population feel bad, but we were talking about this offstage, but my favorite sects of the bands playing fan base, I have two. 22-year-old girls

who message me and are like, I love pavement now, and I'm like, I am absolutely doing God's work on this planet. I knew you were going to say that exact phrase. I am just as simply a mouthpiece of God here to get 22-year-old girls to know about pavement. And then also there are a much smaller, but also mighty population of clergymen

that listen to this podcast. That's right. There are multiple reverence and a Catholic monk who I have referenced. many times. Just saying they too seem to think I'm doing God's work. Another cool thing with a lean over, I dug around the other songs,

and there are some here and there, but this one seems to have the most. There's a bunch of music references. We were also talking backstage about how I love it when a song references other bands, like that Red House Painter song that's like, we're driving around listening to Hanoi Rocks and Social D.

I just love that. So in this one, she's like, what's up? What's up with you? What's up with your friends? High heels, high heels. Oh, I. MBV.

MBV. You think that's my bloody Valentine? 100%. Yeah. Why would you just randomly repeat MVV five times? Was it confirmed? No. You thought she was just like, what sounds really cool is those three letters?

It could be anything. It could be anything. But you're probably right. I think it's my buddy Valentine. This is your sleuth work. And then there's a later part where she says, days like television, days like television. days like television,

did it did a, days like television. Not only is you talking about television, there's a literal television song called days. Yeah, off adventure. Timing sounds right. A couple of these were called out on Genius,

but I just want you to know the couple of them I came up with that they didn't know the annotators of Genius missed. And I did not go and annotate because that's freak shit. Because you're gatekeeping it for a pants plate?

That's right. Yeah, now someone else can listen to this and go. And then the last one is 12 o'clock, one o'clock, no pretending. Virginia looking at it last night. Virginia Plain for a single by the band, Roxy Music, Virginia Plain. I thought that was cute.

That's my band's playing moment. I really like Young Offenders. I love Philip. The thing about you would think that, and maybe you wouldn't think this, but I would have thought that sort of like scattered vocals would not possess emotional resonance.

Do you know what I mean? like, but there's so many beautiful phrases in her lyrics, and they always get me. That's kind of like the whole thing about jazz. I don't know about jazz famously. And I'm probably never will. That's literally the whole thing is like, are you telling me right now that you know about jazz? I studied jazz in college because my boyfriend liked jazz. And then my teacher pulled me aside and was like,

you gotta stop wasting your time. You don't give a fuck about this. And I was like... Many such cases, babe. Thank God someone said. I like that your boyfriend led you to jazz and mine led me to meth. No, literally, my boyfriend was...

Sorry. Dad, earmuffs, have you got to this part of the podcast? I didn't know you were on that wave. Just briefly. Very short, twice. I've had a... I've had a rich life full of varied experiences. And it's made me who I am today.

Of course. Judgment from you. A woman that studied jazz at the behest of her boyfriend. No. I'm just saying that's their whole thing. It's like you're not thinking about it, but it's also kind of methodical, but you're also just like working within a framework so that you can actually be free within that framework. It's that whole idea of like a blank page that's not liberating for writers because they're like,

Where do I start? Yeah. Within which to be creative. Yeah, we always talk about that. That's kind of like jazz and that kind of is like this too. Yeah, okay. I like that. See, that's why the guy was so mean.

Shouts to your college boyfriend. Whiplash. Oh, sure. Great movie. He's like, this shit matters. Yeah. You got to learn the rules to break them. How come you're so pretty?

You too, but that's the lyric in the song. In Philip. I literally was like, I know there's a catch. I set you up for that one. There's also a lyric in that one that says Couldn't Understand Science, Darling. Same bit. T.

Once again, not a woman in STEM. She was ahead of the times. Okay, this is the question I wanted to ask you about guitar. Yes, ma'am. Things. On voice. Are you very familiar with this song?

Do we play a little bit of it? Can you play it? Yeah. Throughout the whole album, it's like they are experimenting with different tones that sometimes come in and are like, boop, I'm just a voice that's coming in for this song.

I'm a voice because you need another texture on this song. But like the core, like if we're baking a cake, the flour is that guitar tone. Okay. I would say. And I think there's nothing about that that is like, wow, this is such a unique and special tone. It's just very unfiltered, like sounds like strats

going through a Fender Deluxe for the nerds. And it's just- Shut up. Fender, if you're listening. I was a love a guitar as I'm 43 and wanting to embark on the new phase of my life where I'm in a band. Let Yossi learn guitar. Let Yossi rock. Let Yossi rock. Okay, sorry, go on in. Okay, it's just like a classic, like I think they're just, you know, like on an amp, you'll have a reverb dial and you can literally have reverb that's built into the amp. Right. It sounds like they're using that and they're not even like, I don't know. This is just what I think.

but I think they're not going through a ton of pedals. There's not a lot of effects. It's the same on the vocal and on the guitars. They're both like super kind of like albini raw. And that's what, shout out. And that's what makes the voice and the guitars as well feel like they're right there. Yeah.

There's an immediacy. Which also makes it a little more vulnerable, right? Because you feel like you're just like, hey. Yeah, you're like, oh, I'm in the same room. Hey, girl. All right. things for that explanation. Also, part of what I think makes those guitars sound so good is that everything you hear now

that comes out now is overdubbed and overdubbed and overdub and overdub and overdub and has layers upon layers of stuff that you would never see live. But why do they do that? Because it makes it sound fat and good. Okay. Do you do that? Hell yes. Okay.

Hell yes. Then I like it. There are not enough guitar players on earth to be on stage. for like all of the overdubs because you just sometimes not for every song but sometimes you just want a wall of sound okay Phil Specter yeah exactly art from the artist um yeah yeah yeah all comes back back to um but it doesn't sound like there's any overdubs or like Frankensteining yeah of oh I'm gonna take this piece and put it here it's all just like performance like it's a lot of performance work with this music right because I it feels it to me like her vocals would just get lost in a wall of sound, if you will.

I totally agree. Like they're so, they're not fragile. I don't listen to her voice and feel like, oh, you have a fragile or delicate voice, but I think it would get lost. It's not like, like Dolores from the Cranberries. Well, yeah, she's not cut through. Yeah, it's not like that.

But I think it could get lost. I love 14 days because just because the premise is really funny, which she's like doing a countdown to when she's going to break up with this guy. T. And she thought it was really funny to say I'm leaving you in 14 days. A fortnight.

A fortnight. She said it. She was like, but you wouldn't say a fortnight. Taylor Swift said a fortnight. Well, no comment. All right, Newtown. Let's fucking go. See, I think Newtown and Leanover

being the two on the first single are also, I think, two of the kind of polarities of this album. Newtown is more the fall to me, like more leans a little more here I was just...

And lean over is like spring, summer? Yeah. That's not what I meant. I meant the fall, the band, but yeah. I'm sorry. I was like, okay, I see it. Like people are going back to school. It starts, I forgot, I forgot, I forgot, I forgot. Extremely Aussie and peri many pauses.

Can you explain that to me? Oh my God, you have so much to look forward to. Let me illuminate you, babe. A cool thing that happens in perimenopause, a word I believe they just invented two years ago, is that you start to completely go brain dead. Oh, great. And then you're like, oh, that's really cool because my job is talking in thoughts and sentences

where I need to remember words. So that's an amazing thing to happen. I have only ever been exposed to perimenopause through one thing, and it's that Miranda July book. Yeah. That's the only frame of reference I have. We're not all like that. Okay.

Yeah. But do you think this is the only rock music podcast that has mentioned perimenopause this many times? No. I feel like this could come up. In other rock music podcasts. It pertains. You think Zane Lowe ever mentions perimenopause? You know what?

I wouldn't put it past him. You're right. And he would be understanding. He's an ally. He's absolutely an ally. No, I know. I'm being serious. He is.

Hashtag not all men. No. This one, yeah, this one just has so many good lyrics. I saw you today. You were like snow. I don't know what that means, but I like it.

You were like snow. You're temporary. You're going to be gone. You're going to melt away. Or also maybe you're cold. Wait till. Delicate slipping through my fingers. Let Yossi Rock happens.

And you see what beautiful lyrics. Interesting. Come out of this person. Scatted, of course, because I can't sing. So it's either going to be a hardcore band or it's going to be a scatting band. Or it might be a weird hybrid scatting and hardcore. Do you want to talk about Sorrow, the song that you've been extremely preoccupied with you'll be play a little bit of it

yeah play a little she also kind of sings more in this song right like a little more like yeah normal vocal yeah which i think is why it feels a little bit like a good access point yeah but the thing the thing about that to me is like the way like the tone of her voice even though speaking, it sounds like if you're talking to somebody, like your friend comes over and it's been a long-ass day and there's like the new past, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's not like I'm going into the studio to sound good and whatever. It's like to actually achieve a vocal take that sounds like you're talking to a friend or someone you love is so hard.

Right. We're talking about it. There's a real sense of intimacy. I don't feel like Eddie Vedder is talking to me when he's like, Jeremy Spokey. I don't feel that way about him either. I just wanted an opportunity to do my Eddie better. There was no reason for me to say that.

But I think Lou Reed had that. 100%. 100%. And I kind of think John Kale has that. Okay. And I feel like. Maybe more toxic-y people have that because it's looking. Leonard Cohen has a bit of that.

Leonard Cohen big time. But even Leonard Cohen, like, first of all, the lyrics are actual poems. Right. So it's like doesn't feel like you're being spoken to in that way. But for Leonard Cohen's stuff, it feels like, okay, he went in and got a bunch of takes and was at the studio in New York sounding great and then left. Or in Canada. Or in Canada.

This sounds like it was not recorded with that in mind, genuinely. It just sounds like you have access to. it's like a little window into somebody's life. This is really the way I would love to approach all of my life. With my therapist, I call it tra-l-l-l-law law. Okay, tell me more. Just going tra-l-law mode when you're like, okay, just... You know, you guys know what I'm saying.

Like, you just like... Like when you're busy and your day is just like not thinking. Just with everything, it's just like, who cares, you know? And not in who cares where you don't value what you're doing and try to do it properly with a sense of like, you know, intention and whatever, but it's more like not getting, I think there's like, what's that, that physics theory of like the observed versus the like unobserved, how things change when they're observed?

Like I think we're all now constantly thinking about everything in the sense that it's going to be observed. Yeah. Because of social media, maybe because we make things that are meant to be observed. But it's like, fuck, I can't think about that all the time because it makes me feel insane and terrible. Totally. And so I feel like going to tra-la-law mode is like separating out of that and just being like, I'm just doing the things I'm doing tra-l-la-law throughout the day. And like it exists outside of whatever it is going to be to other people or to their observation,

to their judgment. You know who really fucking, I know this is corny, but that figure skater. Alyssa Lou. That girl is like my boo. I'm like, the shit that she was saying, I was like, did you see the... Are you going to drag her now? No, no, no. I love her.

I love her. But I just think it's interesting and was thinking about it in terms of like performing and performance anxiety and like stage fright and all these things. Did you see the interview that her coach gave? And he was like, I tell Alyssa all the time, there's something different about her brain. And to be an Olympian, you have to just have. this like oh the plane's going down okay I got this no problem boop I'm just locking in like that piece that would go in your brain or I'll speak for myself my brain

holy shit I'm at the Olympics and everything is on a razor thin edge yeah and if I'm off by like this much I'm gonna fall and eat shit and my dreams are crushed right she doesn't have that piece yeah which is so fascinating and just like, I don't know, I just was like, holy shit, I don't know how it's possible. Well, I think it's cultivated because I do think there's other Olympians or athletes or whatever that just do well under pressure, right, which I do think is a skill, but a different skill. Whereas I genuinely think she has like cultivated a worldview where she's like, there was a thing I listened to her saying and I was like, this is trawlam mode where she was like, it doesn't

matter if I win or lose. It literally materially doesn't matter. Like it doesn't matter if I go in the championship or if I don't go in the championship. That just doesn't matter. Like every day is just the day. And like I feel like the perspective of having like taken years away and been like maybe this isn't what's making me happy. Yeah. And then be like, oh, actually I'm missing it in my life and coming back to it is like kind of traw la lot like, like, perfect soil for trauma. Yeah, yeah, totally. To take some time when I be like,

oh, what do I miss? Now I actually enjoy it. Yeah. And like what is important and what is not? And I don't know. I think it's just like if, and I'm sure there are people who are thriving in this world who cared very deeply what other people think about them.

And I'm not saying I don't, but like I do better mentally if I'm just like, okay, this podcast sucks. This podcast sucks. I'm sorry. Like, I'm just going to keep. God make me small. God make me small.

Yeah. So, um, we've, but I, okay, I can bring it back. I feel that part of the experience of listening to life without buildings is you feel that that was very much the energy of at the very least, Sue Tompkins, but maybe all of them. And it is so imbued with that that when you listen to it, you feel it too. I completely agree. like this thing that you have that you pulled an interviewer asked basically like what are your goals they were like what are your plans after this album this is when they were still a band they hadn't broken up yet

so like career wise yeah what are you trying to do and she straight up said i think i'm not ambitious enough so i find that question hard like that is exactly what you're talking about exactly what i'm talking about. And I have a real, I have a real bone to pick with ambition. I found. Interesting. You guys, I'm going to reveal something to you. I hated Martin Supreme. It's called Marty Supreme. I'm just saying the government name. But I was like, okay, very confusing because like so beautifully shot everything gorgeous. Like opian soundtrack. Opian soundtrack hitting like costume design fucking perfect, production design perfect. even the way it was shot, gorgeous.

Performance is amazing. I don't care about this story because the whole thing was like ambition is a virtue and I don't think ambition is a virtue. To me it was presented that way. And I was just like, I don't care if Marty falls off a building in minute six because I don't care about him as a person

because he has one note. I don't know that ambition is a virtue. Yeah. But I do think it's a reality for a lot of people. Yeah. And I think you're born with it, or you're born without it, I think it's one of those things. And you don't...

Do you think so? I think so personally. I think you kind of have to like monitor the situation. I think ambition is egoic. So like... Yeah. I think you just have to be very aware of like to what end. Yeah.

Of course. I mean, that's the thing of like people who their whole life is to become an incredibly successful politician, musician, whatever. And the more successful they get, get the goal post moves and they're less and less happy because the thing they thought they'd always have they didn't do the thing they wanted as what someone said this to me a long time ago and it's always stuck with me that it's like if what makes you feel fulfilled comes from outside of yourself there's never enough you'll never be thin enough you'll never be famous enough

you'll never be rich enough you'll never be hot enough there's never enough yeah i think it's also a bit of like how much were you bit by the capitalism bug and how much did you believe it? Yeah. Like someone says something that blew my mind the other day where I was like, I have this whole thing as a singer about wanting my voice to sound the same every single show. I would kill. I would give anything to have my voice sound the exact same because it's just reliable and it's vulnerable to get up in front of people and your instrument is inside your body.

and your body has fluctuations. And some days it sounds fantastic. And you're like, I was sent here to rock and roll. And some days you're like, I cannot fucking sing, but somehow it's my job. And I was complaining about it. And somebody was like, don't you think there's so much capitalism and so much masculinity in the idea that you're supposed to show up and sound the exact same like you're stamping it every single time? Like you're a cog.

Like you're not only a cog in a machine, but you don't have like a cycle that changes your hormones that literally changes the tissue in your vocal cords. So like... Because I cried today at the blonde shell sex because I'm extremely leudial.

I was like, I don't I cry during this fucking podcast. But if, I mean, if you're ludial, the tissue in your vocal cords is thicker. Do you think Zainlo talks about the leudial phase

making the tissue in female vocalists? No, but I bet you if I wanted to talk to him about it or you want to talk about it. on can you talk about it? He would be down. I think I already said he's an ally. I'm just curious. I think he would. The differences between what we do. Yeah, okay. But to bring it back to them, I just think like the ambition aspect, if you're, if we are thinking about it as like how much of this sort of like virus do you have in you that you're focused on other people and what?

how they're hearing your music. I think she has had very little of that. And I do think, I'm sorry, I don't want to be reductive. Obviously, I think it's, I have ambition. We all have, like, maybe not we don't all. There's lots of artists I love that I know. We were talking off, off mic about Billy Corgan. I think one of the more known to be ambitious artists ever.

And like, he made some of the greatest albums of my lifetime. So like, no, no, no, no dissing. But it was just thoughts I had during the research of this podcast. So, life without buildings, but that's what we're talking about. It pertains. They tour a bunch after the album comes out. They tour with Bell and Sebastian, which apparently turned out to be a huge mistake in their words, because everyone in the audiences were very mean to them, and they got heckled a lot.

And, quote, there are a few audiences more conservative than the white indie rock audience. So true. That's shade. But also, too. It's not really that much. I mean, there's like certain pockets of. indie rock that are indie rock as a whole is extremely white as you obviously know i've seen it yeah you've seen it it's there's just no denying that it's also incredibly male so it makes sense that it ends up

being kind of conservative in those spaces yeah and again this is like 2001 but or 2002 whatever so i'm sure that didn't help that tour but in 2002 the band kind of quietly breaks up robert said we did want to carry on but i think at the same time we were struggling to write new material and there were tensions in the band, mostly me wanting to do more noodley stuff. I kind of felt that unless we completely changed direction, we wouldn't get another album out. They recorded one last song called Love Trinity, which actually came out a couple of years ago for like a record store day thing. It's on their live album.

Sue said, when we stopped being a band, looking back on it, I think I stopped for really personal reasons. It was getting too bandy. I'd never done it before and it was just getting too much. Like there were tours to do and T-shirts and badges, pins. stuff. And now I think I would actually go with that a bit more because these things become part of what you do. But it was all quite new and it was a bit scary that side of it. This is very much you being like, I don't want to play shows. I like playing shows.

Sometimes I don't want to play shows. It's just, you know, it's like anything where sometimes life's hard for a given reason. Yeah. I think I don't think anybody is like I want to go on a hard tour for 10 weeks or whatever. Like I want to do it. But like week eight, you're like, I'm tired. Yeah. Of course you love connecting with the audience. That's not what I was saying. Like I'm playing. But like I can imagine you being Sue Tompkins. Like I started this as a fun lull, lulls, a paloosa.

And then they're like, you have to go tour with Bell and Sebastian. And there's men yelling at you. Especially like in an opening situation like that. She's like, okay, I play my set and men yell at me to like take my top off. And then I have to go stand at the merch table with like the money box. Right. Like I don't like this. Yeah.

I have to make t-shirts. Which like, you know, fair. That was, that's all of Life Without Buildings. They put out a live album in 2007. No real answers us to how this happened. It was recorded in Sydney at the Annandale Hotel. The band members were like, we had no idea this shit was being recorded, but it's a cool album. I guess we're glad it came out.

Don't know. It came out on a thing called Gargle Blast Records. I don't know what kind of like contracts they have a question. Gargle blast. If you were starting a label today, what would I call it? Gargle blast, no.

Corner of sauce. No, you can't have that because that's the first band signed. Right, of course. What would I call it? Yes, babe. Yes, babe. This is really hard. Do you have one?

Oh. I don't. I was asking you. But you don't have your own answer? No. Okay. Luteal records. Actually, that's pretty good. Luteal records? Yeah. I like that.

Okay. Perimenopause. You could like pari menopause. Perfect. There's a couple songs, by the way, you guys, if you want to check it out on the live at the Annandale Hotel that aren't on the regular record that are also quite good. I didn't know Frank Ocean was a fan. Okay, yeah.

So I did a little research. as I want to do. And I was like, who be name-checking life without buildings besides Blanchel? We already said, be-b-bab-dub-dooby? No. Be-b-a-dubi. Be-a-dubi. B-a-dubi.

B-dubi. B-B-Badubi. Yes, Frank Ocean, who also has deep and wonderful taste, played it in 2018 on his Bebadooby. On his Beats One radio show pre-Tick-Ticot virality. Taste. Maddie Healy from the 1975 has said they influenced his music

Cloud Nothings Wishy Wishy's a great band Have you guys heard Wishy? I love Wishy Yeah we really fuck with Wishy And then this year Sleaford Mauds

Who are such a fucking cool band Put out a new album called The Demise of Planet X And there's a song with Sue Tompkins on it Oh really? It's great, yeah They also have Alda Huck's Aldous, is it Aldous? Aldis, who I love.

Me too. She's also on a song on here. That makes sense. That's like a... Yeah, the kind of like in a similar, strange woman. I feel like Jessica Pratt would love her. Would love Sue Tompkins. I don't know.

I don't know. The weirdness of it all. Well, you guys, we... Wow, we nearly went... We went to 740. Thank you so much for coming down to the... Boise Contemporary Theater. Oh my God.

Pupo. Parymenopause. She still got it. And spending your time with us. And we're really happy that you guys came out. It was really fun to do this. Thank you, Sabrina. Thank you, all seeing. And come back next week for a new episode of Bansplaine.

If you liked what you heard today, subscribe for more episodes of Bansplain. Our guest today was Sabrina Title Bomb. This episode was recorded live at Tree Fort Festival in Boise, Idaho. It was produced by Rob Sunderman and edited by Adrian Bridges with help from Justin Sales. Video production by Max Sharp. Executive producers for Bansplaine are Gina Delvec and me, Yossi Salick.

Our gorgeous and catchy theme song was composed and performed by Bethanyi Costantino and Jennifer Clavene, and graciously recorded by Carlos Delaguerza in Los Angeles, California. Special thanks to our producer emeritus, producer Dylan, aka Dylan Tupper Rupert, and also Sean Fennessey and the Tree Fort Festival. Come back every Thursday for a new episode of Bandsplaine on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. The go-goes and Fun Boy 3 My lips are sealed That one

Can you do more? Whoa