Bandsplain - Mazzy Star with Meaghan Garvey

Episode Date: November 2, 2023

Some bands would prefer that you do not perceive them, and Mazzy Star are one of those bands. How does a duo that rejects the concept of modernity so thoroughly come to achieve the prominence and cult-like devotion that Mazzy Star did? With goddamn gorgeous beautiful songs, for starters. This week’s guest Meaghan Garvey joins Yasi to chart how this Los Angeles band found its way into the hearts and minds of listeners everywhere with a decades spanning career that defied convention at every turn.  Follow Meaghan on Twitter @Meaghan_Garvey You can check out her substack HERE Listen to songs we detail in the episode HERE Host: Yasi Salek Guest: Meaghan Garvey Producer: Jesse Miller-Gordon Audio Editor: Adrian Bridges Additional Production Supervision: Justin Sayles Theme Song: Bethany Cosentino Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What would you do if you got scammed? Would you suffer in silence, or would you do something about it? Well, I got scammed once, and this is the story of what I did. I'm Justin Sales, the host of the Wedding Scammer, a true crime podcast from The Ringer. And for seven episodes, we're hunting a comment, a guy with a lot of aliases, a guy who's ruined a lot of weddings. And with the help of some friends, I just might be able to catch him. Listen to the Wedding Scammer on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's with this band anyway? I don't get it. Can you please explain? Wait like Bansplaine? Hello and welcome to Bansplaine. I am your host, Yossi Salick. This is a show where I invite an expert guest on to help me explain a cult band or iconic artist. Today's episode is about Mazzie Star. If you've never heard Mazzie Star, I invite you to hold the hand inside me.

babe. I want to hold the inside you. You guys, our guest today, an absolute legend, a full fucking icon, writer, hero,

Megan Garvey. Welcome to, first of all, if you guys don't already subscribe to her substack. It is incredible. I would read literally

anything Megan Garvey wrote about anything ever. If she was like, I have this 400 page document. I wrote about dust mites. I'd be like,

send it over, babe, make it a PDF. Oh, shucks. I'm printing it out. I'm going to read it. Scary, cool, sad goodbye. That is how you say it.

Scary, cool, sad goodbye. Welcome to the program, Megan Garvey. How are you today? I'm great. I thought you'd never ask me to join you. Oh, my God. Well, you know, we've a little inside baseball for you guys and this is going to, you know, make the internet go nuts.

Just kidding. No one's going to care. But I've been wanting and talking to you about doing Lana, but I've just been putting it off because it's like Herculian task and we just like haven't gotten there. But then when Maddie's start. came up, I was like, oh, the precursor to Lana, proto-Lana, said this could work. Exactly.

I mean, I remember it must have been, gosh, almost like two years ago when I think I first broached the subject of doing Mazzie Star for Bansplaine. Did you? Yeah, it was like, yeah, I think I DM you. I was like, we should do Mazzie Star. My smooth brain that doesn't retain any information. But it's true what they say, I think that if you love an idea for a podcast, you must let it go. And it comes back to you. It's a traditional saying that it is, it's so true.

No, I'm so excited to do this. I love Mazzie Star as I am a spiritually gen X woman who grew up in the 90s. And also, I love that they have four albums because as a person of lazy experience who is extremely tired at this point in the season, we welcome shorter discography bands. Well, yeah, I mean, I'm glad I'm joining you at this particular juncture when, It is you that has to do most of the work and not, I guess. Love that for me. Yeah, it's good for everybody except for myself. But that is a bed that we have made and we are lying in it.

Okay, Megan Garvey, tell me, since I obviously don't remember this damn conversation, because I don't remember anything because my brain is only full of, like, facts about smashing pumpkins and, like, bush or whatever. What is it about Mazzy Star that made you be like, oh, I'm like, I want to do that episode? Well, probably for most of the better part of my life, you could pretty easily slot me into the category of like the sad girl archetype, which is a timeless archetype, but like, damn, in the 90s, they did it so good. You know, like something, there was some sort of like fertile grounds, like the Daria of it all. Darya, you've barely said a word. Yeah, Darya, tell your dad what edgy is. As far as I can make out, edgy occurs when middle-brow middle-aged profiteers are looking to suck the energy, not to mention spending money, out of the quote-unquote youth culture.

So my so-called life of it all. But Angela, whatever your dad may be doing with whatever girl, and you don't even know if he is, he's still the type of dad that would lay two dead tickets on you. I should also add that, like, to be a sad girl. trademark symbol. I don't think it necessarily means you are going around the world fucking miserable all the time. Me myself, I'm a pretty happy go lucky gal.

But I think it's more like maybe you have a predisposition towards like romanticized melancholy and maybe if you're able to harness said melancholy

and really indulge in it real good then it's not really so depressing at all, but really quite fantastic. This is constitutional, babe. This is staring out the window core. This is eneagram type four girlies. Oh my God. Yes.

You already know. You already know the vibes. So we, I'm picking up what you're putting down. I too am like a mostly happy person, but at my core, I am a wistfully staring out. I'm always wistfully staring out the window. No matter what I'm doing, some part of my mind is wistfully staring out a window. 100%. And it's like when you can craft the perfect mood by way of like the perfect melancholy record,

the perfect viby old film, maybe drinking some wine out of a witchy little goblet, maybe smoking a cigarette out the window and like staring out into the night. Maybe you like swoon on your couch like a Victorian lady, you know, pining, yearning, having long dark hair that falls like a curtain over your face, you know? Who amongst them? Really just all the best things that life has to offer, you know? And I say all this to say that like by the time I got hit, really hit to Massey Star, which like mind you wasn't in the 90s.

Like I was listening to whatever. My mom was playing in the minivan, but how old are you, Megan? If you don't mind me asking here publicly in this forum, don't have to answer. I'm 36. I'm 36 years of age. Okay, so yeah, you're enough younger that it wouldn't have hit because the big album came out in 93. So even I was like 11 years old. Yeah, I was not Hipsom as you started then.

But when I came around to it at some point in my 20s, it was like just this immediate flash of recognition of like, oh, fuck, yeah, like this sensibility that I've been sort of gesturing towards and grasping at and like feeling but not really having like a vocabulary for it. like this is it right here. It's incredible. I think for a lot of people, I would imagine, I don't want to put words in their mouths, but if you only have like a cursory understanding or knowledge of Mazzie Star,

there's like a couple of big songs, really the big, the one big song fade into you, but then there was two other radio songs. And it doesn't really scratch the surface of like how interesting and like, I don't,

I don't say genre bending because that's disgusting, but like genre referential, I guess is maybe a better word. Like, like, all the different places the music goes on the albums that you wouldn't know just from hearing fade into you, which is a really like catchy and poppy song for their uvro. Definitely. And like, you know, once you learn that this is Mazzie Star, you realize that you've heard Fade into you one bajillion fucking times by way of like Gilmore Girls or yeah. CSI or yeah yeah anything but even that like overexposure really doesn't prepare you for how like deeply strange this song kind of is I mean I want to hold the hand inside you is fucking weird incredible fucking full um what's the melting clocks artist dolly that's right Salvador dolly vibes over here it's emcey ashur like we're we're playing with perception 100% just picturing a hand

coming out from inside a heart reaching. Also, I will say, I'm sorry, I don't care how many times I've heard fade into you still hits. Hits hard. Do not build up a tolerance. Yeah, totally. They actually should be legally banned from playing it without notice in public spaces because, like,

I don't need all that smoke. You know what I mean? Like, I'm just, like, out there trying to buy tampons or whatever at the right aid and, like, all of a sudden I'm blindsided by fade into you. And I'm, like, barely hanging on by a thread anyways. Like, this should be banned by the law. May I ask, like, when you were in your early, like, junior high or grade school dance era, was fade into you a thing?

Like, do you have memories of that? Yeah. Yeah, it was like a slow dance song, for sure. Because I was in middle school or junior high or whatever, I started at 93. So it was like 93 to 95, I guess, must have been because I was 11 to 13, right? Yeah. Did you ever share a little sway? No, babe, I was really ugly.

So not a lot of suitors, not a lot of young men, young 11-year-old men lining up to ask me to dance to fade into. I get that. I definitely get that. I think sad girls also, not all, but there is a strain of sad girl that was ugly in their youth. Oh. Late bloomer is a very sad girl trait. The sad girl can be born sitting in a folding chair in a high school, in a gymnasium. am waiting, waiting to be has to dance to all my life by Casey and Jojo and no one asks.

Yeah. And just, I'm sorry, just to clear it up, you guys, because this is an audio-only podcast. I'm hot now. You don't have to feel bad. This built a lot of character honestly made me, we could say too funny. I need to tone it down. I could leave clever, clever land once in a while, but unfortunately, that's what happens when you're ugly. You have to, like, develop sort of a bigger personality in order to survive. And this is, we'll get into this also because I've, I talked to, did I talk about Massey Star in therapy this week? You fucking bet your ass I did. Hope Sandoval, who was never ugly, as far as I can tell, did not have to develop any sort of wit or jokes or clowning around to get through life. And she has this like, incredible, like I'm so inspired. I don't know about you. Okay, let's just talk.

You're obviously an astrology girl and Megan Garvey. That's part of the sad girl archetype. but... No? No, I am, but my sign might surprise you. Are you a Virgo? No. Aquarius? Capricorn.

I don't believe in sun signs. Not that I don't believe in them, but I think that's like really scratching the surface of like who a person is. So like it makes sense to me. Also, you do have like an incredible work ethic. I've come around to being a Capricorn over the years. It's kind of like the old duck of like. smooth sailing on the surface under the water fucking paddling frantically. Yeah.

My ex-boyfriend is a Capricorn. He's absolutely a sad girl archetype, so I get it. There's a lot of artists that are Capricorns. I'm just saying because right now we're in eclipse season, chaotic, unwieldy, and also Mars is in Scorpio. Time for Secrets. Let's not tell everyone everything, which traditionally has been difficult for me. I'm not good at not telling everyone everything, as you can see.

see my job is literally talking all the time, which I would probably be doing anyways if I didn't have a microphone in front of me. And reading in reviews of Massey Star, absolutely inspirational. Well, and we'll get into them because I excerpted a bunch that made me laugh so hard where they'll just ask direct questions and hope San of all will be like, no, just no. Or I don't think about that. What do you think about this? I don't think about that. Gorgeous, legend. Just absolutely unwilling to give you even anything. Go on, give us nothing, girl. It's so good. Were you surprised to learn that Hope Santa Fe is a cancer? No.

Were you? No, I was not shocked. Yeah, that's like, it's so obvious. It's like obvious. It's just a cancer. Okay, let's let's, let's, now that we're here, we should just get into it. I'm actually going to start with David Edward Roebuck. Born April 4th, 1950, and Ares. He actually very sadly passed away two years ago. I'm from cancer. But he was born and raised in L.A. son of a nurse and a physician. He grew up in Brentwood. So he's from like the sort of more upscale west side nicer part of town. And he was really into music since he was young. I mean,

he's older, right? So he like, he basically grew up in the 60s. Here's what he said. There was constantly music on the radio. The Beatles made a strong impression on me. The doors love bands like that. I just thought they were speaking from a world I really wanted to be part of. However, he also got really into Sid Barrett and like Patty Smith. And he said, I felt like a punk. That's the attitude I identified with. But when I picked up a guitar and started playing it, the music didn't come out sounding punk. It was something else. So spiritually, Dave is a punk, but he did not make any punk music in his life, I don't think. I love that. I love that for him. So, okay, so he went to Palisades High School. Shout out Pally High. My brother also went there. And he and his brother, Steve, made a band

together called The Unconscious with Susanna Hoff. Big mover and shaker. Yes. She lived across the street. She was their neighbor. She would later obviously go on to be a member of the Bengals, kind of a big deal. So they didn't really release anything. They did like covers of two songs.

Bob Dylan's, I'll keep it with mine. And Lou Reed's, I'll be your mirror. And I guess Roeback said like Susanna Hoffs was like a little more into pop music. And they were trying to do something more serious. so this dissolved. I can't totally keep track of Dave's Cummings and Goings, but he moves to New York to try to sort of get in that, like, you know, Artie Patty Smith scene, then moves back to L.A., but then moves to Berkeley,

and he goes to UC Berkeley. I'm not really sure. Berkeley is important in this story, so he does eventually, like, stay there. But he does return to L.A. first, and he makes a band called The Sidewalks. The sidewalks becomes rain parade. Did you listen to any rain parade? That was like his big band before Massey Star. Rain Parade is not my fave.

I'm more of an opal gal if we're talking about like his pre-projects. I mean, I like a lot of this like Paisley Underground stuff. Yeah, like green on red, I love. I love green on red, which is one of the more major bands of that. Yeah, all this stuff, like the green on red stuff, there's like the ones that are more. The dream syndicate bitch, I was obsessed with the day's wine of roses. Oh my God. So good.

So good. All that stuff is so good. Rain parade to me is not as interesting because to me it's a bit more straightforward nostalgia, whereas these other Opal Dream Syndicate, like those more country-tinged ones are bringing sort of like a new lens to this like psychedelic throwback shit where the rain parade is kind of just like floaty, cool kaleidoscopic, but you know, okay, cool sitar, you know. Yeah. Cool. Cool sitar bro. I'm also like not in love with the vocals. I don't know why. It's just like it's a little off-putting for me. But people liked it. The rain parade was popular. And I guess like, again, they're part of this Paisley underground or whatever, a terrible name for anything. I was just going to ask what you thought about that name. I hate it so much. Apparently it was like named after like some, some girl who went on to all the shows and wore like a Paisley or red Paisley dress. I read that somewhere. I'm not sure if it's true. Well, one thing I read that I was shocked to find out was that, like, one of the actual, like, musicians from the scene coins that term, because when I heard Paisley Underground, I was like, that is some music writer as shit right there. So, like, music writer punishing you with their, like, clever idea of a scene name. Yeah. But no, it came, the call came from inside the house, actually. They make an album, Emergency Third Rail Power Trip. It's not on streaming.

You can listen to it on YouTube. and then he was like, actually, I don't like this anymore, much like ourselves, so he didn't like it. And he was like, I'm leaving. And then he made a band called Rainy Day. Look at that, clever name change. But that was just a collective of other musicians from the Paisley Underground and they just did an album of covers. It's actually really good. And then him and his girlfriend, Kendra Smith, who was the,

The vocalist of the Dream Syndicate made a band called Clay Allison, which is the band that changed its name and became Opel. And they put out their first album, Happy Nightmare Baby in 1987. And you know what? This shit goes. I didn't know about Opel before. Did you? It's so good. I did not listen to a lot of this stuff because, unfortunately, I'm lazy.

And, like, if it's not on, like, streaming services, I kind of, like, forget. But happy Nightmare Baby, go listen to it on YouTube. It's so sick. It's so good. It's very much like the sort of, I don't want to say lynchian, but I'm going to fucking end up saying it at least two or three times. It's like that lynchian like woman in trouble, like dark highway, headlights on the highway. We're speeding past like a swinging lone stoplight and like a haunted gas station music, you know, which is everything good. Which is, yeah, tell me. You hide me at hello, if you will.

I love her vocal. I mean, I loved it. She played bass in the Dream Syndicate and sing some, but she just has this incredible vocal tone that I'm, like, so into. Happy Nightmare Baby comes out in 1987. Now, let's switch tracks. Hope Sandal. Born June 24, 1996, a cancer, again, obviously. She was born in Los Angeles to Mexican-American parents, and she was raised in East L.A. It's a little squirly getting the exact biographical details, and I saw a bunch that contradicted each other. But what I can say is maybe. be true is that she is the youngest of 10 children, but they're mostly half siblings. And she told

Melody Maker in 1991 that she only grew up with two brothers and one sister, and all the rest of them are a lot older than her. So she wasn't like in a house with 10 kids or whatever. And she was raised primarily by her mother. She went to high school in Alhambra. Shout out Alhambra over here on the very east side of town. This is from Wikipedia, so I don't know if it's true, but they said that she struggled socially and academically, sad girl vibes, and was placed in special ed. Yeah, I read that too. Poor her. I know. I mean, I think another hallmark of the sad girl. Well, actually, we can talk about it. Do you think sad girls have to have a hard time in high school? Can a sad girl be popular? Well, good question. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't know, but there must be a few who feel like

maybe there, no one knows them truly for who they really are. I was popular. Oh, really? But not like, if this was like the teen movie about the high school, I wasn't like the popular, like, hot girl that was like prom queen. I was the like member of the popular girl crowd that was like the comic relief. I was the clown of the cool girl crowd. So I like provided a.

service. I had to earn, you know what I mean? I had to earn my dinner. Right. The court jester, if you will, of the royalty of high school. Yeah, well, sad clowns, there's a lot of those. That's what I'm saying sad girl clown archetype over here. It's a special one. But anyways, hope sand of all not popular or funny. She said she always loved music. I grew up with older brothers and sisters who were into music playing the Beatles and the Rolling Stones and Aretha Franklin. She talks a lot, I'm sure you saw this, a lot about the Rolling Stones being like a major influence, which does kind of make a lot of sense, given that they also transverse so many genres in all of their albums. And if you're like listening to them growing up

in the 70s and 80s, you're getting so much influence just from one band. Yeah. And it always is talking about how she specifically likes their blues covers, their love in veins and what have you. Totally. So she started. started writing songs when she was 13. This interviewer asked her, what prompted you to want to do that? And she said, I didn't really think about it. I just started doing it. And the guy's like, okay, what do the songs you were writing sound like? And she goes, it was a lot of like folk music. So she was, this is where she talked about it. She was in this other band called Going Home. Oh, yeah. So sick. So sick. Good. It's kind of, it's very folky, right? Just her and the guitar player, Sylvia Gomez is her name. It was like her friend from high school. Love does it bring you down? It sounds like they started doing this. When Hope was very young, I couldn't get a gauge on how old Sylvia was, but she was like

14 or 15. Yeah. So like early 80s, I guess. Yeah. And they were really into the Paisley Underground. So the guy from Steve went from Dream Syndicate says he remembers Hope like coming to Dream Syndicate sound checks in like 82, like her mom would bring her because she couldn't get into the shows because she was too young.

and she got like very mesmerized by Kendra. This is a quote he said I want to ask you about. And then he goes, the beginning of the All About Eve saga. I saw this food. I know. You know what? There is more.

God bless all of these people for being just like religiously discreet for decades. But there is so much more to this story that you know exists. There is drama. There is intrigue. Oh my God. I'm like, I'm like, I'm the do moire. Again, I will say it, the do-maw of shit in the 90s that no one cares about anymore, but I will get to the bottom of it.

Fuck, yes. I mean, should we explain what All About Eve is for the listeners? Yes, can you take it? I feel like you'll do it eloquently. Okay. All About Eve is a movie probably from like 1950 or thereabouts. I think it's Marilyn Monroe's first acting role, but that's neither here nor there. Basically, there's sort of an aging Broadway star who's well respected, but as I said, aging kind

of on her way out. Here comes this sort of fresh-faced understudy, or really just a fan at first, a fan who then becomes the understudy, who then usurps her. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So also an added element of this story, and I'm so sorry we just have to get into it because part of this podcast is Goss and Droms and T is that David and Kendra were BFGF. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. So anyways, Hope Sandoval drops out of high school. She has this duo going home. There's like four different versions of the story that I read coming from themselves. So I don't know what the truth is. But like one said that she was friends with Kendra, which might be true if she came to those sound checks and like me befriended her. One was just that like they like snuck into a show of the rain parade and passed.

a tape to David directly or Kendra Passett, whatever it is, a tape of their songs got to David. Right. You know what's weird and interesting about all of this is that like here is this painfully shy girl with no social skills who's also like out on the town like a feral little street urchin like sneaking into these clubs to see Paisley Underground shows of all things and is like handing out demos. It's kind of an interesting little balance, isn't it? Totally. It seems like she's just motivated by music, not to oversimplify it, but it just sounds like that's what all she cared about was music and like making it and connecting with it. And like she was a big fan of Rain Parade and Kendra and all of it. So I guess it motivated. I mean, it doesn't sound like she actually,

Sylvia, I think, passed the tape. Doesn't sound like she was able to transverse the chasm of her own shyness to get there. But also, I'm sorry, I read this that actually sent me to the moon, and I really hope it's true. It was a news week. Going home played gigs with Sonic Youth and the Minutemen. Did you read this? Yes. Allegedly, their third gig ever was in 1985 opening for Sonic Youth and the Minutemen, which is utterly insane. That's insane. Also, especially if you hear the music, you're like, who put them on this bill? Yeah, and I think, I mean, I'm paraphrasing, but there was some interview with Hope much, much later in life, and they asked her about this gig, and she was just like, everyone was really nice and they were really quiet and listened to us because that's her big thing. You have to be quiet. Biggest thing, yeah. She also said that exing Serenka was a huge influence on her. Did you read that? Okay, I don't, I'm not hip to what that is.

The singer of X. Okay. Oh, you never got into X? ever got into X. Oh, man, X is so good. Okay, but not very hope sandal-a-ballish, I'm assuming. It's true, but she said, X-Ean's an incredible vocalist, and what she said was she taught her how to bend her notes when she sings. And I was like, oh, okay. Oh, cool.

I can kind of hear that. And I was obsessed with her just having this, like, 14, 15-year-old role in the burgeoning Los Angeles punk scene. So back to our timeline. The tape gets to David. David is blown away by this. He's just like, he says that they had this amazing thing going musically. The intensity was so overwhelming to me.

I couldn't stop listening to it. So he gets in touch and he's like, what if I play guitar for you guys and I'll produce your album or whatever? It's really sweet. Hope said, I felt like I was the luckiest person ever. I could not believe that he wanted to join our band. He called me and said, I really love your music. and I want to pay guitar for you guys.

Cute. I mean, of course. Like, imagine you're this little teenager, like, slipping your demo to your favorite band. And not only do they like it, not only do they want to help you with it, they want to be in your bands. That's like if David Matthews wanted to be in my band that I started.

And I somehow got a demo thing to him. But I'm tone deaf. So borderline. Not fully, but enough that it's a block between me and starting a band with David Matthews. They recorded songs, but it's never been released. It is on YouTube.

Is that the one with David or is that the one pre-David? It's hard to say. Certainly David produced and recorded it, but I don't think he's actually playing on it. Yeah, I don't think he is either. It sounds like just one guitar, one voice, and it's fucking good. I wish they would put it out properly. They talked about putting it out in the early 90s. Like it comes up in interviews.

They say a lot of shit. It never happens. But they're like, oh, it's going to be the next release and like just never. We're still waiting, talking 25 years later. That would be great. I do have a little bit of gossip that one must take with a grain of salt because it comes from YouTube comments. Yeah, but there's a lot of truth in those YouTube comments. I've learned a lot from YouTube comments. Well, I have a lot to say about the YouTube comments under Mazzie Star songs, but I'll get to that. But this specifically regarding Sylvia Gomez. Oh, nice. Okay. Okay. So there's a few people who seem to know her in the comments of the going home demo on YouTube.

One says that she continues to play and write her own music as well as working her full-time job and caring for extended family. A next person says, she dated my cousin for two years and now does our taxes at H&R Block. Just like God protect me from one day people who knew me coming, flooding to YouTube to just like, put my shit on blast. Oh my God. They're going to be like, dude, one time I was at a tapes and tape show in 2003. And Megan was blacked out and she got on stage and took the microphone and started rapping. I'm like, that's true.

Yeah, they're going to come and be like, Yossi? Oh, yeah. She was at every burger rom-a, babe. And I'm going to be like, don't. We don't want to talk about that anymore. We don't talk about burger Roma anymore. Okay, good to know about Sylvia Gomez. I do need a tax person, so perhaps if she's in the area.

Okay, here's where things get a little squirrelly. So then also, David asks Hope to like perform with them a little bit in Opal. And I know this predates, like, I thought it was just that she came in when Kendra left, but that's not true because there is a video that. Again, God bless YouTube. There is a video where they're promoting happy nightmare baby on this local Seattle TV show called bomb shelter videos. That actually honestly sounds cool as hell that would just play like cool, like grunge and stuff in the early 90s. Just like, I don't know if it's cable access or just local.

And so the three of them are together promoting the thing. My goodness. I mean, listen, I love Hope Sandler. of all. I hope she'd, I mean, listen, she's never listened to a podcast. We all know this. But like, if by the point zero zero one percent chance she listens to it, I'm going to be mortified because she would hate all this gossip and all of it. But I have to say that like, isn't it scary to think that like someone might be waiting in the wings at any moment to fucking steal your life? Well, to paraphrase Shay Mitchell, who you might know from the television program, pretty little liars on this TikTok clip that for some reason keep. surfacing into my algorithm. Well, if he isn't mine, then he's not mine.

That I don't want him anyways. If someone else can take him, I don't want him anyway. That's true. And you know what? She's not wrong. And historically, sometimes that has not been true for me, but nevertheless. You're like, no, actually people take things. Opel is on tour in the UK, opening for the Jesus and Mary chain.

and Kendra Smith abruptly under mysterious circumstances quits the tour and goes home. What those mysterious circumstances might meet, we do not know. We can take a guess, a few guesses, but let's just say she was done. And again, I'm not totally sure it sounds like Hope wasn't on this tour that she was rung up by David

and was like, can you fly out here to help me finish this tour? Like, I need a vocalist. And she's like, on my way, you know. Yeah. But then, of course, she's like, it was the most difficult thing I'd ever done. As she says about anything that, like, kind of requires being under a light or in front of people or being seen or heard. I think she hated this one. And this I totally related to because she just had to step into someone else's role.

Right. And she had no creative control over it. They weren't her songs. she wasn't able to, like, have input. And I think she really bristled at that because, and this is, this is another thing. I think both you and I know, but maybe people that only have, like, a cursory knowledge of Massey Star wouldn't. She's not just, like, the singer of Massey Star that, like, writes the songs that were pre-written for her. Like, she has a huge hand in the creation and the creativity of Massey Star.

And so already from day one, she's like, I don't want to do this fucking bullshit. It's not mine. Yeah. And her, I mean, her lyrics are so. her own, like, I love the music of Opel, but there's really no comparison as lyrically, you know, to hopes. It's an absolute different ballgame. It looks like she had to do a tour for two years with Opel, though.

Yeah. Okay. Kind of insane. Anyways, Rough Trade is who Opel was signed to, and he had to, whatever follow-up he did, had to be on Rough Trade, which is part of the reason Bazzi Star comes out on on Rough Trade. They also did finish the second Opal album, Ghost Highway. Right. But they never put it out because, again, I hope Sanibal was like, I don't, this is not my

songs. I don't want to perform them. I don't want to do it. I do like that the one song snuck through, the one that's called Ghost Highway on the first album, which is fucking sick. It's a great song. But it's so obviously of another ilk, you know, like it does stand out. So then they're like, actually, let's make our own new thing. David is like, whatever you want, babe. They called it Massey Star.

Did I get to the bottom of why they called it Massey Star? No, but here are some of the answers they gave. Where did the new name Mazzy Star come from, David? Well, it's just a name. It doesn't mean anything more than your name or my name. It felt kind of right. If there's a deeper meaning, I'm not really conscious of what it is. Next interviewer.

How did you guys settle on the name Mazzie Star? It's a fantastic name. I think we were just trying to give ourselves sort of a Western name. I don't know. That's what I was thinking about. David. Yeah, that had sort of a northern feel, the interviewer. The interviewer goes, a northern feel.

And David goes, yeah. The interviewer's like a northern, like, nighttime feel or anything more specific than that. Just a northern sensibility. And then David goes, well, you know, there's just so much in a name, really. Names are names. Names are names is the answer. Just legend, behavior. He's not wrong.

Names are names. He's not telling a lie. But just this was on Morning Becomes Eclectic. Just incredible stuff. Northern feel. That's so good. Yeah, I just had a northern feel. Like, Northern what, babe?

Like Northern England, Northern California. like up and looking up in the sky upset i'm just obsessed with them okay so they get it together start writing let's get into the first album 1990 before we get into the first album then i want to paint a little picture of what the musical landscape of 1990 was like because i do think it's interesting obviously 1990 is pre the year punk broke so important to note madonna's the immaculate collection has come out important to mcgave for reasons that we can't discuss right now important to me because that was the first artist I had a deep investment in and was obsessed with and I had that CD and like played the shit out of it. I was truly deeply, madly obsessed with Madonna. As you should be.

New kids on the block step by step. Gorgeous. Beautiful. Step by step. Oh, baby. MC Hammer, please. Hammer don't art them. These are the highest selling albums. And then in the more, you know, underground, cool. world. Fugazi's repeater comes out that year. Shanei O'Connor. I don't want what I haven't got. Sonic Youth's

Gou. Jane's Addiction, Ritual, Dilo Habitual. So, you know, we're starting to invent alt rock. It is a little pre anything that would be considered alt rock in any formal way. She hangs brightly. May 21st, 1990. Produced by David Roebuck.

Kirkobain put this album in his top 50 albums of all time. checks out. That totally checks out. We stand a man with excellent taste. David was living in Berkeley. Hope was still living in L.A., and they would go kind of back and forth to make the album. Most of it being done in San Francisco, a place called Hyde Street Studios, part of it in L.A. David didn't want to live in L.A. He hated it. You know, not a tinseltown kind of guy, but Hope liked, you know, where she was from. David plays almost all the guitars on here. A guy called Keith Mitchell plays drums.

they do say that like mostly the breakdown of the writing of the songs is like he'll write the guitar parts and she'll do the vocal melodies and most of the lyrics but he also writes some lyrics which i found very interesting huh that is interesting i could never tell which ones i couldn't either sometimes they say it like so i wrote down when when there's ones that we can like prove that he had a hand in them they asked him in an interview how do your songs come is it just bang they're there And David said, songwriting is like an ecstatic state. Suddenly, it all comes out of you. It always provides a psychological relief. I'd probably go mad if I didn't write the songs. Yeah. Me too, if I didn't podcast. And then here's an incredible exchange with that same interviewer with Hope. On the new album, which songs did you write the words to? Most of them. Can you tell me what they're all about? Not really. They're just ideas rather than stories. They're both, I guess. Poor questions, though. Ideas rather than stories. Come on. In fairness, they're bad questions. Like, I don't think good questions would have made much of a difference, but like these are bad questions. What do you mean? Their ideas rather than the story, we're even talking about. What does they even mean? And the cover of the album, which is very iconic, is taken from an old hotel in Brussels. And David said, I don't even know the name of the hotel, but it would really be a trip if I checked into it one day. I'd love that. It's cool to imagine yourself waking up there. For sure, man. you listen to any June Tabor to prep for this? I didn't know who that was, but Hope Sandoval

kept referencing her as a No. A singing influence. She's just sort of like a very obscure English singer. Really good. Do you mind if I sit down by your

graveside? Hope Sandoval is a very interesting taste. She would say June Tabor she said Kendra Smith of the mentioned. Billy Holiday, Patty Smith. I can see Billy Holiday. There's no sun up in the sky. Star me with her.

I can't really see Patty Smith, although there are songs that I do feel have a Patty Smith quality, which we'll get into. There's just one quote I loved from David about just like how they make music and stuff. And he said, A lot of our music is about projecting our minds far away, not traveling through some imaginary void, but that's what it is. Traveling through some imaginary darkness.

It's real to us. Everybody's concept of reality is private to them. Oh, I love that. David sounds like a really trippy, weird dude from the way he answers all these interview questions. I'm sort of into it. I could see why someone might be mesmerized by him. Absolutely. Maybe not the life of the party, but probably a good one-on-one chat.

Totally. Not sure. Hope Sandoval wanted to even be at a party, let alone be with the life of the party. So it worked for this duo. I'll say real quickly before we're getting into the songs. This song also came out on Capitol the same year because Rough Trade went bankrupt. So they sort of had to pass them along. And that's how they ended up on a major label, I think, sort of against their will.

Right. Hala? Let's just fucking go. Absolutely. Are you kidding with this song? Surely don't stay like missing you now. I listen to this one a lot. I guess this is the other kind of hit, right?

Because it hit after the second album got big. This song also became a radio hit. Right. And it's kind of weird that the cover on this album, Blue Flower, which the original is not my cup of tea. You don't like slap happy the German-English avant-pop group from 1972. Not for me, not my speed, but like the cover of that apparently was like the big like radio hit off of this album, which to me, I guess I could see because it's very like quintessentially like early 90s. I think that was just like a poor choice on their part to put it forth as the single where they should have put Hala.

Yeah, Hala is the one. I'm also like very embarrassed to say that on this out loud. because it sounds like I'm being like, holla, but I'm not. I'm not. It's what it's called. The lyrics are already just so good and weird. Like, I love the kind of gender flipping that she does. Yeah.

I would say, I guess that hasn't changed someone. Maybe no one else can understand. I guess that you believe you are a woman and that I am someone else's man. So I love her lyrics because on one level, they're so, plain spoken. And then on another level, there's just something askew, like something a little like topsy-turvy about it that's so like eerie and like unresolved and I mean just mysterious. Yeah. She does this like a magic trick of feeling very like visceral and like intimate, but also feeling very removed and sort of distant like at the same time. Like when when she drops

the just casual baby I wish I were dead, first of all, absolutely relatable. Secondly, you're kind of blindsided by it. It's like everything's kind of going along nicely in this song and then it's just all of a sudden, baby I wish I were dead. Yeah, there's these big revelations like that, but then at the same time, it's so like unknowable. I would love to be more mysterious. I'm I'm taking cues from this episode once again, mirroring what I'm going through psychologically. Write it on. Bye. So fucking good.

It's so good. It's so good. Did you want me to love you? Well, I'm just here for the cause. She said, bitch, I'm just here for the cause. I don't know what you thought. It got me fucked up if you thought I was here for you. I'm here for the cause.

I'm just here for the cause. Write it on also, like, I had to double check that that was not like a cover song. To me, it registered as a cover because there's something like ancient about it. Totally. We talked about that a lot on Mansloane. Like, to me, that's like one of the highest compliments you can give a song because like it's almost so good and so familiar that you are like, surely this must have already existed. And to find out that it hasn't is like really. you're like, wow, you tapped into something, as David was saying, he tapped into the eternal

endless void or whatever where he found his inspiration. Yeah, it's like, it's like the opposite of like, what's that thing where it's like, oh, you can't be in a movie about like the olden times. You have a face that's definitely seen an iPhone. You know what I'm talking about? She has like the opposite of that where it's like, I feel like you used to like drink water from a well, you know? It's giving you drink water from a well. Absolutely.

100% it's giving petticoats butter has been churned by this woman she hangs brightly as the song that I made a note that to me does have a lot of Paddy Smith vibes it's like if Patty Smith went full psychedelic that's how I heard it

that's interesting yeah I could see that I feel like the title tracks of their albums are always like this sort of swirling psychedelic like meandering jam like slightly spoken word-esque in the delivery of the vocals or like less singing. I guess that's probably what I hear with Patty Smith too because it's like a little bit less

of the like vocalist crooning. Yeah, I mean the doors jump out as well. Totally. Totally. And you know they loved the doors or at least David did. I can't speak for hope she never mentioned. She seems to like never mention liking any male vocalists. One time she says she like listens to Neil Young.

Yeah, she definitely listens. Daniel Young. She was also, there was this one interview where she was talking about how David put her onto the Velvet Underground and she was like, I used to tell Sylvia to turn off the Velvet Underground because it was just too noisy. Classic sad girl behavior that you don't like something until a man shows it to you. Oh my God, 100%. You know what? People should be more honest and accepting about changing your personality and tastes for men and then absorb. absorbing them and having them for yourself. That's no shame in that game.

Actually, mansplaining is good. I have nothing against mansplaining. I've learned a lot. Plenty things I pretended to like, and then eventually, like, by the method acting of it, grew to become a real part of my personality. Do I remember that man? No, who the fuck knows where he is dead in a ditch? I don't know.

But look at me with my gorgeous, multifaceted personality. 100%. It's like, do you think I ever would have learned how to use torrents? without the help of a mail? I still don't know, babe. I still have to call up a mail on the phone, phone a friend and be like, I need a movie, can you get this going?

I don't know how to do it. And that will never change. Because as we talked about, off mic, I'm not a woman in STEM. And neither are you. Okay, I'm Salon. This is a cover of a Memphis Minnie, Minnie McCoy,

song who was a blues singer and a guitarist in the 20s and 30s. This is kind of what I'm talking about before where I said, like, they really have sort of an interesting and broad range of where they're drawing from to make this music. Yeah, and I mean, Hope has kind of been like a weathered old bluesman since she was like 15 years old. It's kind of remarkable. You're like, what have you been through, babe? You're

15. I know. Where is all this soul coming from? But you do believe it. She has a rich interior world that we don't know about. The cover is really, really pretty. Okay, give you my love in. Also an incredibly interesting song. Because just like the Ghost Highway predates their collaboration, this song was written by Sylvia Gomez. Yeah, and this was the first song on that original demo, really mostly on change,

though it sounds better with David's guitar added. Yeah, well, Sylvia also plays on this song, on this record. Oh, so cool. I didn't know that. Wow. She plays the acoustic guitar. Amazing. They brought her in pre-HNR block. There's a few lyrics I want to shout out of that song too. And also, give you my love into me, her delivery in certain parts is almost giving like Lou Reed or even like Lou Reed by way of like Jonathan Richmond, even like the talk singing, the cool talk singing. She's like, she's like, discomfort arouses when I speak of you. If you've been saying something bad about me, it's so cool. And it's like there's like this swagger to it that is shocking given her presentation outside of music. Discomfort arouses when I speak of you. It's also so important because these lyrics are very straight, like, classic sort of, I almost want to say cliche. right like love song lyrics but because of that swaggery sort of meassy delivery it makes it cool

and gives it this other dimension that I think otherwise it might have been kind of corny totally yeah there's things that are boiled down just to like the utter essence it's like I know I'm the only one for you I know that you think that this isn't true it's like okay boom what more needs to be said it's a freaking haiku man delulu is the salulu is what hope sandinemal said we stand we absolutely stand when i see you i want to kiss you okay yes correct the music of yearning the music of well we'll get into it but the music of convalescing in a seaside establishment where you've been sent to cure your hysteria we really need to bring that back honestly i could absolutely use like a nice two months of convalescence at a seaside establishment.

Oh, I've been living it for about six years. On a lake, mind you, but a lake will work in a pinch. The lake will work. Any body of water, really. Okay, so you've shaped your life around that theory. I actually, I need to be sent away. I need someone to come remove me from my home and send me away. Like, you know a place where they're like, okay, at five o'clock, we do watercolors. You know what I mean? Like that kind of thing. Grippy socks. Absolutely. Okay, I wanted to ask you a question.

So, Be My Angel is the next song. To me, that guitar riff, it's like a fake out because it's like very proto fade into you. It has a very similar. That's very interesting. It just goes a little different, a little different, but it has the same sound. And you see this a lot, I think, if musicians, if you pay attention, or it's like, they only have so many riffs in their mind. And so you'll see the blueprint of a future one in an older song.

I might be wrong, as everyone knows. I don't understand how the guitar works, but that's what I'm hearing. For just a hot second. Just a hot second. Bit of a fake out. You're like, oh, fade into you? No. Wow.

We have fade into you at home. But it's still an incredible song. The lyrics, are you kidding? This is some of my favorite lyrics. Don't say you love me if you don't need me. Don't send me roses on your behalf. Just take me down and walk through your river down through the middle and make it last. You know,

what's so funny is there's like this one interview where they're like, well, obviously you like poetry, don't you hope Sandoval? She's like, no, I don't really like poetry. Okay, Hope. Because like, so of course, so I feel a little silly describing her lyrics in poetic terms, but it is, you know, it's so poetic. Yeah. Are you kidding? Like walk through your river down through the middle. That's so poetic. It's such a beautiful, weird image, much like I want to hold the hand inside you. Yeah, it really can even, I'm just reading the lyrics off the page and it like holds up, it holds up just typed out. If you don't need me, then don't deceive me letting my freedom turn into stone. Bitch, I felt that.

I fucking felt that. As a woman of having gone through romantic disappointment recently experienced, having to listen to Massey Star, all the day every day for two weeks was, I don't want to say healing, because I'm not sure that's really the right word. It's more like if you have like a wound and someone's like, what if I stick my fucking fingers inside it. And I'll just move it around a little bit. I don't move it around. Yeah, well, the only way out is through, don't you know? That's what I'm saying. It did help. I was like fucking plunge me into it. Plunge me into the ocean with the rocks in my pocket. So let's fucking go. Thank you, Maddie's her. I like tastes of blood a lot. It's jingly. I like a

jingly song. Mm-hmm. Taste of blood on lips of wine. Banger. Banger. A little driving. Ghost Highway that you were talking about before, this is like, it's a little harder, right? It goes a little hard.

Yeah, it's almost like, dare I say, verging on like rockabilly, you know, which I'm not anti. I'm like a proponent of rockabilly. I think its time is going to come. It's kind of like, what's someone cool about Rockabilly? I'd ask other than like most of the people who are one. But I mean, the the tattooing of seams on the back of the legs is not my personal aesthetic inclination. But like, I think music wise, rockabilly's cool.

I will always stand for some measure of Rockabilly. Psychobilly. I mean, the cramps, babe. You know, can't deny. There's a crunchy guitar on here. that I quite enjoy. Yeah. And again, it's like that classic like, oh, here I go.

That like David Lynch, like, woman in trouble vibes that are just so fucking delicious. And like a little bit of like suicide, I guess, too. The band's not the practice. Sure. Not practice. Free. All I have in my notes is also a binger. There's no skips on this album.

There really is no skips. And free is funny because it's almost like a little, a little tiki, a little exotica. You know, we got some. some like surfy slide guitar. We got some bongos. That's in the same neighborhood as Rockabilly. I think you need to understand that they're next door to each other. This is also Massey Star is very L.A.

This is a thing I think is not really talked about, but like these influences are very L.A. I mean, the Paisley Underground thing is just like a psych influence or whatever. But like surf, Rockabilly, obviously there was like a Grand Parsons tradition burrito brothers. You know what I'm talking about that sort of L.A. thing, even talking the spiritually punk part of it, which again, we don't really hear the punk music, but I, you know, I would argue that they're both spiritually punk in a way and then a very slight thing in the presentation of the music. Yeah, I also think that similar to that, there's kind of a canon to me of like the California Gothic. Totally. Not goth music, but like the

Gothic, which includes like Neil Young and which includes like the works of Joan Didion, you know, played as it lays, California Gothic, classic, probably anything that has touched like the Manson murders obviously and like the movie Sunset Boulevard. And I think that Massey Star Fit would go under that umbrella quite easily. Yeah, that's a really good. You're, you nailed it. You're making Garvey. You have a beautiful mind and you're making connections. Okay, before I sleep, Goodbye. As all I have to say is goodbye. That was the point on my like,

my little convalescence walk that I was doing, that I just started crying. Oh my God. I cried. I cried to that one this week. And I'm not even sad. Like, I'm feeling pretty good.

But I was walking through the streets of jolly London town late at night. You're like, oy, bro. Yeah. Oh, fuck. Something about that little flourish of the strings is just like, I stay near the edge and waste my time. Dude.

I want to walk into traffic. I was like, can a car come by? I need to go lay down in front of it. I don't know how long you can be a sad girl when you're 41 years old, but I'm definitely like the woman that's, you know, there she goes, like going through the neighborhood with her pockets full. Sometimes I bring peanuts to feed the crows. Oh, cool.

I love that. Every neighbor has to have one of those women. Yeah, I was a squirrel feeder for many a year. It's easier to do that in New York because they're a bit more trusting, so they'll take it out of your hand. But elsewhere, they're a little more skeptical. They're a little scared, yeah, but I'll break them down. There was a couple of reviews. Actually got pretty well reviewed because I presume because of the capital records of it all,

but also Rough Trade obviously had, you know, a deep amount of respect and below. lovedness. It's so insane to me. I haven't looked into this. And I think I have the rough trade book here somewhere, but I haven't read it. Like, how you go bankrupt? You put out all the Smith's albums. I know. What? This was post putting out all those Smith's albums that were very popular. Where did all the money go? It's such a great question. What could they have spent it on? I'll have to read the book. There is an answer to it. I just don't know it. I wanted to read you this one line from the Entertainment Weekly interview that I kind of liked and I wanted to get your take on it. He said, it's as if Patsy Klein had lived long enough to record with the Velvet Underground.

I like that. I think that's cool and true. Yeah, I thought that was like kind of nailed it, right? Because there is like, I'm not like a sit around and listen to Patsy Cline, girly. My mom loves Patsy Cline. I think I personally need that Velvet Underground edge to find it wholly palatable. And that's why a Massey Star really does it for me. Yeah, I can see that. I mean, I can be a straight Patsy Cline, no chaser girl. But for me, it's it's the blues element that that keeps it all sort of vibrating on a frequency that I can tap into. Also, just she has, it's just something so singular about her singing voice. I don't know how to put it into words, but like it's like the tone of it, the register of it.

It's obviously a really good voice, but it doesn't really slap its dick in your face about it. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's like kind of subtle. Yeah, and it doesn't quite like rise or fall very much either. It kind of keeps on the same pace and yet it still has this emotional range. How does she do it? How does she do it? I don't know if you had this thought, but I was like, if I sang like that, would I have 25 boyfriends?

Oh, I. So many things about. Hope Sandal. We got to get into the Hope Sandoval of all of it all. Like, the elephant in the room is that Hope Sandoval is so heartbreakingly beautiful. Yes. That it just hurts to fucking look at her. In this like really childlike way, which does fully fit in with the appeal of everything. I don't think, again, I'm not sure she would like that, but that's just the truth. No, she wouldn't like that. But there is something. about like when you watch these certain live performances, where it's her standing at the front of the stage, miserable, and almost like rolling her eyes in this like ecstatic, saintly, like, agonized way and like dispassionately shaking her tambourine

and hiding behind her harmonica. The child, like, the fact that she presents as a child really adds to that effect that sometimes they'll be like a crowd shot. And these people who don't really look like they would be a Massey Star fan to me, but they're still kind of hypnotized for the whole, the greater picture of like this poor little girl and these words that are coming out of her mouth. Yeah. She's five feet tall.

She has the curtain of black hair aforementioned that really, she's exquisitely gorgeous hair. I did unearth some photos where it's curlier than we've been led to believe. which as a girl of curly hair experience, I did feel a little bit seen. I was like, oh, I see, I see you, Hope Sandoval. Perhaps you did have a blow dryer on hand sometimes when you were doing that little hair.

Rolling Stone gave this album four stars. Gina Arnold, the goat. We love Gina Arnold here on this program. Says, Baby, I Wish I Was Dead, sings Hope Sandoval on Hala, the opening cut of Massey Star's coldly beautiful album. She hangs brightly. And in her resignation,

she sounds almost elated. I got the chills just reading that sentence. That's good. It's so good. She fucking nailed it. Gina Arnold, honestly, the goat. But it's true. Like, it's kind of what I was trying to say before, but I'm not eloquent.

And it's just why I'm illiterate and a dumb bitch podcaster instead of a writer. But in her resignation, she sounds almost elated. It's such a magic trick. Mm-hmm. That's good. That reminds me of, like, the joy of quitting. You know what I mean? Like, that feels.

that feeling of total ecstasy when you're just like, nope. Yeah. Or like surrender a little bit, right? Like, I mean, isn't that sort of like often like surrender comes as a result of reaching a point where you're like, I don't fucking care anymore? But then there's joy in that because when you don't care, you're free. Yeah, 100%. And I mean, a very common party line.

throughout the songs of Massey stars like gee wouldn't it be just so great to just lie down in the corner and just fucking die finally some beasing quiet around here Hey guys don't you think it would be awesome this is this is rotting in bed music

this is lay down in your bed perhaps take a bit of clonopin and just rot rock core I don't know what the girl is now listened to. I went through a whole phase of rotting to ultraviolence. So that's in my rotting canon. And we will later get into the Lana Del Rey of it all. But absolutely we will. And I mean,

gave it a six, which is like how dare bitch. It's so much better than a six. And they talked a lot about opal, which no one else really talks about because in England, Opel was big because of rough trade. Right. Hope Sandoval looks about 13 and sounds as though she carries the weight of the world on her sparrow-sized shoulders. That she does. That she does. Richard Cromlin of the LA Times. Mazzi Star debut, a fine fix of country blues.

Okay. That's cool. There's some live reviews that are very interesting. To your point, one says, if David Lynch is looking for someone to book at the Roadhouse and Twin Peaks, Mazzie Star might be the perfect successor to Julie Cruz. Absolutely couldn't agree more. Yeah, perfect. So this other live review, it's about a New York show.

The guy says, Hope's coquettishness, mildly irritates some of the audience. I am so miserable. She replies, an archly rexile, to one request to stop looking so miserable. So someone was like, can you stop looking so miserable? And she just goes, I am so miserable. Oh, my God. Queen shit.

That's so cool. I love the few occasions where she gets kind of emboldened. There's another one you probably found where it's like she finally, says to the audience like can't you just be quiet I'm sorry sorry we came to we didn't party I'm like this isn't a party I just I loved I loved I am so miserable that's really good so in melody maker Everett True interviews them in 1991 and he goes so you played a

whole bunch of new songs last night band member male looking disinterested I don't pry into people's lives and I feel music is pretty personal. I don't want to answer that. To the question of, so you played some new songs. That's amazing. And then another unhinged magazine. I don't remember starting a magazine in 1990. They go, do you catch bands playing out live at all? Hope? No. That's it. No period. Do you ever see bands out? No. Okay. Cool, cool, cool. There's this really cool piece that I dug up on the

New York Times. I don't know if you read it. It was called Music's New Catatonia. Don't bother getting up by Karen Schumer. No, I didn't read that. Okay. So I just found this interesting because it was like it kind of contextually places Mazzie Star within a larger thing that was maybe happening in music that had to do with the generational sort of move towards on we who cares. So she says, this generation is distrustful both of the 1960s social revolutionaries who they say betrayed themselves with 1980s materialism and the Reaganites, who they blame for the current state of economic and environmental disarray. The 20-somethings generation sees neither social activism nor political irresponsibility as long-term solutions. The lack of choices produce a kind of cultural catatonia.

It's a generation caught between dead ends. The music of a lot of white college rock reflects this feeling of impotence. And it name checks Galaxy 500, Masi Star, and Spaceman 3. And I was like, oh, that's so interesting. Because this is obviously, it's 1990. So it's pre-grunge. So they're not really talking about like Nirvana, the anger, the angst, the grunge. They're just talking about this like absolutely medicated, like catatonic, who cares music.

And I was like, oh, I hadn't really ever thought about that as sort of like a micro wave of. a reaction to the 80s and the 60s, which is what the 90s really was, right? Yeah, I mean, I could see that. All of those, I mean, Galaxy 500, Masi Star, all those bands is kind of like sounds like you want to crawl back into the womb and just float in like amniotic fluids for a while. Who can really? Just amongst us. Okay, so there's tons of comparisons to the cowboy junkies, which for those who they don't know is a

Canadian band, fronted by vocalist Margo Timmons. They started in like 85. They had a breakthrough album in 88, the Trinity session. I guess around this time they would have put out the caution horses, which was their 1990 album. They had a big hit with their cover of Sweet Jane by the Velvet Underground. I guess I kind of see it because there's like a slightly similar vibe. feels like a little bit of like a lazy comparison. It is a lazy comparison. I think the only way that it makes sense is that like this is still very much pre like all the alt country

that's going to happen in the 90s. So I don't think there was a great deal of context for someone who is doing arguably like an alt country. Which is what cowboy junkies really were doing. Way more I think than Massey Star. Madi Star had that as like a thread in their like larger thing. But that wasn't like the main. thing. It was just one of the threads.

Totally. There was an interview in the LA Times from 1990 when they bring up the cowboy junkies who probably read and David Robeck's like, I've never even heard of them. David, David was like, I don't know her. Yeah, and then

hopes, like I feel like what they're doing has been done, that whole folk approach. I think we're a lot more rock and roll. She dragged them to hell. She said, shut up, bitch. And fuck that band. They suck. Yeah, I like the cowboy junkies to be fair. Me too. Listen, I didn't say that. I hope it's animals. I also like that cowboy junkies. But I like that she's sort of like bristled and she said

something mean about them. Yeah, I think she's one of these people who like I'm starting to become more and more every day, which is like really sort of antagonistic towards like the project of modernity, like not really a big modern times gal. So they went on tour in America to promote She Hanks Brightly by opening for the Cocktoe Twins. So cool. So fucking sick. Would literally trade an arm. Not trade an arm, but I would love to have attended such a concert event.

And I like the pairing. I think it's a good weirdo. Do not perceive me pairing. Do you think that in the audience, it was full of like hot, sad, wist, full girls or was it full of like loser guys? I mean, most audiences are filled with loser guys. So unfortunately, I'd have to just guess that it was that. But I'm sure the sad mysterious girls showed up too.

And then they added Jill Emery to their lineup, who was the second basis of whole. So cool. So cool. And they picked up, moved to old blimey, London to make their next album. In the Rolling Stones gossip column, they had a gossip column called LA Confidential. It says this. The always trippy Mazzie Star previewed material from their forthcoming album, so tonight that I might see at the blues haunt the mint. Curiously, vocalist Hope Sandoval admonished the rapt crowd for its applause.

Why are you clapping? She asked. You weren't even listening. I could see that you weren't listening. Just like the, can you, I, I'm such a people pleaser. like the idea of like someone applauding for me and then me being like no I don't accept your applause because you weren't listening is so foreign to me but yet I think I could take something from this this is a learning moment it's very brave and I think it's very funny but if I were in that crowd that would probably haunt me for many a day I would cry to post and I wasn't listening and why are you fucking clapping bitch shut the photo okay so 1993 is something have happened, notably punk has broken. Nirvana has Nirvana ousted Michael Jackson from number one spot on the billboard chart.

The world has changed overnight. I think about the nirvana of it all, obviously, because I do wonder, not even wonder, because I think I can kind of guess, like, fade into you wouldn't have been a hit, I don't think, in a pre-Nirvana topping the change. charts world. Don't you agree? I totally agree. By 93, it's like in utero comes out that year, Pearl Jam versus the cranberries sort of related. Everybody's doing it, so why can't we? Also, Liz Fares, Exile in Guyville and PJ Harvey's Rit of Me come out in 93. Radiohead, Pauble, Honey. There's just like a lot going on in.

the alternative rock but like less rocking, crunchy, punk-driven, and more lo-fi Siamese dream. Yeah, well said. This is the world into which so that tonight I might see his birth, October 5th, 1993, produced by David Roebuck. Thaden to you is the band's first and only single to make the Billboard Hot 100 chart.

Hit number 44. I know you read the quote from like the record label guy. And he's like, well, the girls and the boys, well, they're making out and they're not listening to Barry White anymore. They pushed it really hard. Like, Capital pushed it to become a single for the slow dancing for the making out. And it worked. It worked. When do you think was the first time that you heard Fade into you?

I don't even remember a time before I heard Fade Into you. But I mean, it must have been that. year because I was like religiously devoted to K. Rock and K. Rock absolutely played this song from day one. I'm trying to think I feel like I have this memory of it being in an episode of my so-called life. And if it wasn't, it may as well have been. Yeah. I think it probably was. I don't totally remember. It's not on the soundtrack, but it doesn't mean it wasn't in an episode and it probably was. Definitely was in the OC, but that's later. We'll get into that. Oh, fuck yeah, it was. Also, the video was on MTV A Bunch and I really remember.

remember the video because she looks so fucking cool in that plaid miniskirt. Mm-hmm. Everything was so cool. Yeah, she's driving through the desert. Then she's sort of in a blue room, blue shadowy room. And then she's just standing in the desert and her little plaid skirt. Fuck. Also, all I wanted at that time was to have straight hair.

I had, like, scrapbooks full of photos of straight-haired models from Vogue cut out and like sassy and stuff and plastered in there. just like a self-loathing notebook, you know? Yeah, I had one of those. At that particular time, I was probably in my seventh year running of having a bowl cut. But you have to be the long-haired, curtain-haired woman you wish to see in the world. And eventually you can be. Eventually you can be.

It's just like a really cool video. But yeah, I really remember, very much remember Fade into you coming. hot and heavy into my life. Here's the vibe of making the album. Hope Sandoval said, certain things happened to us after making the last album that changed our lives. It's like that song by The Smiths, that line in that one song. I've seen it happening in other people's lives, and now it's happening in mine. That sort of captures the whole feeling of the album. And now that I think about it, some people say that it's a darker record, and it probably is darker. But if it is darker. It's because things change and not for the better. Maybe it has something to do with being

around death. Death is all around me. Oh. Babe, what? Where? What are talking about? Is death in the room right now? He's death in the room with us right now? Uncharacteristically verbose answer from Roxanneval, which yet does not really reveal anything. No, it does not. I mean, fade into you for such a like, let's slow dance at the homecoming. Like, is it about love? Is this a happy relationship? Is it a relationship at all? Is this someone who she like brushed shoulders with through a hallway?

Is this like an ex who she pines for? Is this someone? Like, there's really, it's not that romantic. Well, it's romantic in the sense. Okay. Here's the thing about Massey Star. Here's like the fucking molten core of it. is like the nature of desire, right?

Kind of relies on the not having the thing that you want. You know what I mean? It's like between the wanting and the having is desire. And once you get, then it's a whole other can of worms. But I feel like all of Mazzie Star, but particularly fade into you, exists in this void of desire. of really a relationship that might be concocted completely by you in your mind. Yeah.

No, I think you said it really well. I also just get this sense and this might be like, obviously we're always projecting that it's like not just desire, but it's like futile desire. You know, there's like something baked into the desire that to me expresses futility. Like, even fade into you, like, I feel an expression of like, I want this thing, but I know I'll never have it. Yeah. Or if I have it, then I'll just lose it and then I'll be even worse off than I already am. You live your life, you go in shadows, you'll come apart and you'll go blind.

What? Mm-hmm. You live your life. You go in shadow. Okay, the genius annotation, absolutely unhinged. I don't think it has any basis in reality. Says Hope Sandoval and David Roebuck wrote this song in 1983 during a methamphetamine epidemic in California.

Yeah, famously meth-y music. According to the U.S. Department of Justice, nearly 2,000 deaths were caused by methamphetamine abuse in a two-year span. Meth use can cause temporary blindness in its user. Bitch, that is not what those lines are about. I promise you. Whoa. Also says because you buy that drug in shit.

shadowy alleyways. So that's why he says you go in shadows. That's such a leap. That's such a leap. And if there are drugs being bought in shadowy alleyways, there are certainly not uppers. I can tell you that much. Don't you hear this music? I really love, I mean, we already talked about I want to hold the hand inside you, but I want to take the breath that's true. That's a very underrated lyric, I feel. It is. I don't know. There's just something like, oh, it gets me. And then I look to you and I see nothing. This is what I'm saying about the sort of futility, right? It's like desiring and looking for something that maybe isn't there.

Yeah, that's why I wonder, like, who is the subject? Like, who is she singing to in this song? Well, if we're going to do goss and tea. It's never confirmed, but it does come up in a couple of interviews that Hope and David were dating. Yeah. Which I think we could have presumed from what we said earlier. I think we could have presumed... Again, allegedly, I don't have any proof.

I'm simply reporting the news of what I read in some interviews who were also sort of alleging. Yeah. They would neither confirm nor deny. I mean, I think it's safe to go with that. Throughout, like, the first album, maybe even the making of the second one, they were a thing and maybe a dissolving thing. I'm fully editorializing here. No clue. Yeah.

But I don't know. Again, I can't help it. I'm a sad girl. I'm the architect. if I'm wistfully staring, I'm concocting romantic, you know, storylines. And to me, the storyline of, like, writing music with someone while your relationship is falling apart and just writing this, like, pained, tortured, wistful music. Oh, my gosh. I tried to write a short story with one of my exes, like, after he revealed that he had a second girlfriend. And that didn't work out. A second, like a second family. But a second girlfriend. Yeah, that's okay. And then you were like, let's make a second girlfriend. And then you were like, let's make a second girlfriend.

art together about it? Well, no, not about that, but I was like, well, we were going to work on this story together, so can we still? No, we cannot. No, Megan. Megan, no. You live and you learn.

You do live and you learn. I had a really profound, this is, again, off topic, but that's what we do here at Bandsland. I had a really profound realization of the Death Cab for QD Postal, service show while I was on mushrooms where I was just really like taking in the beauty and like magic of all these songs that were obviously written about someone and their love songs and tangled and complicated. And then I was like, wow, I always make jokes on here about the songs that have been written about me. But then I was like, wow, man, once upon a time, someone loved me enough,

you know, like to be moved to like see me cry and write a song about it. about it. And even if like things are fleeting and, you know, temporal or whatever, that's so cool. Like it really like, I really swelled with some like feeling of like gratitude and appreciation for just like, what a cool thing. It is so cool. Sometimes I'd rather have that than have like an active presence relationship. That's the romantic. That's the romantic girl and you. I don't need any more songs about me, but the two will do, unless there's other ones I don't know about. I'm sure there are. I'm sure some listeners are scribing them as we speak. Here's what David said. I always have her hope in mind when I compose. I want to tailor it.

But even if I wasn't there, she would still be so talented. Her music could do without me. On the other hand, Mazzie Star would be nothing without her. I love her ideas, her presence, her words. I love her, period. I'm just saying you're not beating the allegations of not dating each other. No, well, what he says is true that could not exist without hope, but probably could. No, I don't want to say it could. I don't know that it could either because, I mean, we'll get into the Hope Santaval. What are they called the warm jet, the warm inventions? Yeah.

Also, maybe without David Roeback, it's not quite, it doesn't have quite the same magic. Yeah. Did you know that fade into you borrow a chord progression from Bob Dylan's knocking on Heaven's door. Yeah, I mean, that checks out, but it's not what I think about when I listen to it. Me neither, because I can't even hear it because, as you know, I don't understand how the guitar works and I don't really know about music, but I thought that was interesting. Also, the video that we talked about was a second video because they didn't like, they were like the first video is not good enough and doesn't basically have hope enough in it being hot. So we need more,

more hope being hot and it worked. Typical. Typical. And yet, like, okay, I should say, at this point that like I don't know if these two things were exactly connected in my life, but at the same time that I was getting into Massey Star, I was also an active Tumblr user, if you can believe it. And it might, it may have even been the case that I got into Massey Star because I saw this photo of this bewitching waif and was like, what's, what's all this? Yeah. What's the story here? So it would be dishonest to say that the image of Hope Sandoval is unconnected to the charm. Couldn't possibly.

They asked David, how do you feel about getting a heavy rotation on MTV? And he said, personally, I have a lot of trouble relating to music as perceived via the television. I think it takes away a lot of the mystery, a lot of the potential for the listener. I really think music is something you share with somebody who's listening to it. and I really have never cared for the way music is marketed on television. I think it takes away from the active participation of the person who's hearing it. He was like, I don't believe in television. Not perceived via the television.

He doesn't want to, they don't want to be perceived at all, but definitely not via the television. The project of modernity, that's what I'm talking about. Exactly. David is really, was really with you on that. He was not, he was not down. Bell's Ring is a really beautiful song also. It's not like it goes from fade into you into like just dropping off in quality. It's right there. Bell's ring, gorge. Nobody's out

to buy your story. Nobody wants to know your reason why. Oof. At Yossi. Stop talking about yourself. That's at Yossi. Don't stop revealing your innermost secrets. Keep them inside, like Hope's Annabal. Mary of Silence.

This song is so vived out murder ballad hours. It's giving Nick Cave. Even maybe more, it's giving PJ Harvey. Yeah. But it's a, it's a chicken or the egg thing. Because PJ Harvey only also recently emerged into the world with her art, like, you know, a few years prior. But it does have that sentence, right? Yeah. And then also that ancient thing of like this could be an incantation from, you know, the year 800. All murder ballots kind of have that, right? They do sound like. They do sound like that. sort of timeless, like the passing down of stories from your ancestors or whatever.

This song is also really long. Yeah, I mean, this song scares me. It is kind of scary. It's true. Oh, sweet Mary, come inside for a while. Help me get a hold of you. Take me into your skin. What are we talking about here?

I don't like it. It could just be religious. We don't know. Five Shanks, Starryonate is a cover of an Arthur Lee song. the frontman of love, which also his version is pretty amazing. It's a bit more, I don't know how to say it.

It's more theatrical, has more performance to it, a little more. But this version, fuck me all the way up. The original version, it being a love song, I would probably receive as a love song where it being sung to me, whereas sung by Hope Sandoval.

It's like lightly medicine. Yeah, what are you trying to say? What do you mean? It's a really, really good song. They were friends, I guess, with Arthur Lee from love. Blue Light, I just wrote, ugh, kill me. I don't know what I was thinking, but. This is one of my all-time faves.

And this is where that Patsy Klein comment really, hits too because to me this is the most like 50s 60s just like soda fountain pop but still so strange I mean as a sad woman who likes to look out her window at the lake outdoors where occasionally a ship does sail by my window this one gets a lot of burn in my book but there's a ship that sails on by there's a world under it I think I see it sailing away damn There's a shit It settles on Back

I like the other one where it's like There's a world outside My doorstep flames over everyone's heart Don't you see them shining I want to hear them beating for me This is really actually One of the kind of warmest And more uplifting

Of the Mazzie Star songs actually She talks about her friends She references a friend says a friend that she has a friend. No, but I really, I find it so depressing because I'm like, oh, this is like, I see this world just outside my doorstep, but I can't access it. Like, it's like really like, I want to touch this world that I know exists, but I can't get to it. Yeah, but then like the instrumentation, that little like do-wop-be melody, like some righteous brothers as shit sort of like speaks to something a little hope if you will a dangerous thing

a woman to have a woman like me to have but i do be having it yeah this is this is an all-timer this is an all-time song i should add that i used to put this on the the touch tunes jukebox at my neighborhood bar and i thought this was like a winner just like a hands-down crowd pleaser but like all the fucking like old alcoholics there like, oh, Megan. They were like, babe, it's rough enough for us already. Like, can you put on piano, man?

Yeah, I remember one guy who's like, oh, draw me a warm bath and slit my wrists already. I'm like, tchay, Randy. Yeah, Randy is not wrong, babe. Give Randy some journey and let him be. Like, you don't have to be going up into their spaces. That's their sacred spaces and playing your Mousy Star.

She's, my baby. I have to say, I haven't said it many times, although it could probably be sad for some of the other songs, but this song fucks. It does. It's a sad fucking. It's sort of a melancholy fucking, but it does fuck. This is a great song because it talks about walking home alone. And one of the best things to do while you're listening to Manzi Starr is walk around alone. That's true. I was doing that a lot and you're right it hits in a very special way she's my baby she belongs to me again the gender flipping but yesterday she walked home all alone everybody else looks at my baby another one you have to check like is this like some sort of memphis blues song from 1942 it's not it's an original

the part where she's like i'm feeling sorry i called you but i guess that i forgot your name damn drag this person straight to hell like you're like I was really lonely and so I called you but like I it's actually a good reminder that like often more often than not most often than not we are projecting onto romantic objects simply our version of the divine and we're only looking to connect with that divine that we contain within us and it has truly basically nothing to do with the other person and so if you forget their name, it kind of makes sense. Yeah, I mean, that's a very heartening thought to me, actually. There might be something very wrong with me, but... Well, I mean, I don't think it's negative, right? I think it's just an important thing to remember. I mean, that's why falling in love feels

that way because you're brushing up against the divine. It's a spiritual feeling, you know? And that's why being in love slash in a, you know, normal and committed long-term partnership, does not feel like that because it's no longer about that. That's about relating to an earthly person with your earthly self. And that's a completely different ballgame. But falling in love, that's about the divine. Yeah. And about like your wonderful imagination too. Of course. Yeah. So it means pure projection. And that's okay. But here's a thought I had on one of my meandering walks when I was thinking profound Kylie Jenner realization thoughts aided again by a bit of psilocybin. I was like, oh, but like, is it, would this person even matter if it's just my projection?

And it's like, well, there's no difference. Like, there's no difference. Yes, because that's your, like, you projected onto that person. So that is your expression of the divine. So it is just as important. You know, you don't project the divine onto everyone, you know? Your projection chose that person. There's a reason for that.

There's something within them that is mirroring back to you. you know. Yeah, and you can't underwrite your instincts. Exactly. I should, maybe sometimes. Maybe after I go to my convalescence, grippy socks. Unreflected is really so good too. Oh.

But we're getting close to a real one. Wasted also good. I don't want to skip over it. It's a great song. Oh, don't skip wasted. I love wasted. It's a really great song. I stuck my hands into your ground and pulled out somebody else's son.

Well, with that, I wonder, because when I hear that, what I actually hear instead of sun is pulled out somebody else's song. Oh, interesting. That would make a lot more sense. To me, that makes sense. You could even apply it to, well, as someone who has dated a few musicians, let's presume. Not me.

that um like you could see her applying that to any number of men she's been with you could see that her applying that to kendra smith and you know sort of stepping into her opal space yeah so you're so right that makes a lot more so i go with that yeah i like that a lot more because the other one doesn't i mean it's a again one of those weird ass salvador dolly images but it doesn't totally make sense i like it don't tell us hope standard of all not that you listen to this podcast but yeah that's a really it's a really good this is again no skips sorry to say it but it's simply true definitely no skips into dust bitch though oh man literally fucked me all the way up marissa cooper no babe stay away from the light oh my god wait what was happening to marissa when this was playing it's when she was

in mexico yes oh fuck as if we weren't happening having a hard enough fucking time of it already. Then they fucking soundtrack it with this shit. Oh my God. I think that was her best acting performance of that whole show, if not ever, when she's staggering around. I agree. I agree. Definitely ever because, no, all of them respect to Misha Barton, I'm not sure she'd do a whole lot after. No. Yeah. She was born to play that one role. This is just... Hope said that for Into Dust, David's guitar, part was just so moving. We didn't even stop and write. He just played the guitar part, I sang, and we recorded it. And that was it. What you hear on the record is basically the first

time we did it. Damn. That's called Voice of God, man. That's just God channeling through. Okay. So I mentioned earlier that I have spent like an inordinate amount of time hanging out in the comment sections under Massey star songs on YouTube. And, and, you know, I'm just going to let you know that's not totally rejection of the project of modernity, but I'll allow it going. I know. I know. But like, you know what? Like pitchfork, eat your heart out because some of the best, rawest, just like, poignant, real deal fucking music writing takes place in YouTube comments and especially in the ones under Massey Star songs. And Into Dust is one of those songs that really just like moths to a flame, there is some poignant. shit. May I share some with you? Yes, I would absolutely. I would be angry if you didn't, please. The floor is yours. Okay. Here's one from Christine Paris. I broke up with my boyfriend of two years for someone I met once and fell madly, desperately in love with. He hated me, then met a true love

of his own. A year later, he was diagnosed with cancer. He married his girlfriend in the hospital. He died the next year. He was 26. I'm the only one who remembers the two years in the crappy apartment, sleeping on the floor because we couldn't afford a bed, the cat we rescued the fun. The night he died, I was living across country in Los Angeles. I woke up and he was sitting on the edge of the bed looking at me. His eyes were glowing. He smiled, kissed me and said goodbye. He vanished and I was sitting there in the dark. I waited until the phone rang in the morning to tell me what I already knew. No one can tell me it was a dream. That's the end. By the way, no mention of Masi Star, but you could just picture this person on the Into Dust YouTube at 3 in the morning.

Someone should option this into it. It's fucking crazy. Let me read you another one. Please. From Dr. Jekyll. I buried my best friend in my backyard just a few minutes ago. Can't see the keyboard from my tears. And this song is the final touch.

Geez, I just want to die too. Rex, I will always love you. You were a good boy over 16 years. Oh, it was a dog. I was like, are you allowed to just bury people? people in your backyard. It feels illegal. Twist, twist ending.

Yeah. Let me just read you one more. Please. I was brought to Mazzie Star by a friend in my old MC. That's motorcycle club. Taught me to play Into Dust on guitar, then committed suicide. Then after playing Gears of War, I realized Into Dust was on the game soundtrack. I cried so hard.

I should also point out, I am part of a motorcycle club. I'm six foot three, 16 stone. He's a Brit. 16 stone of pure muscle, bearded and tattooed. So the sight of me crying is extremely rare. I want to know who these people are talking to, but also I don't care. It's just so, it's such a beautiful, pure thing to just come, like, pour your thoughts and feelings into a YouTube comment. I mean, there's a very ugly expression to that, too, of course.

But here it just seems like diary entries. Mm-hmm. It's so pure. It's so pure. Yeah. 16 stone, no bush. Yeah, this song is, for whatever reason, I mean, I guess it, I know the reasons it sounds like death and it feels like death and turning into dust is a traditionally death-like expression. But yeah, it's really been associated with death.

Like two strangers turning into dust. Until your eyes shed into dust. I feel my eyes turning into dust. Ugh. I could feel my eyes turning. Damn, dude. This song really fucking fucks me up. And that's what if they were breaking up in the making of this album really takes on some added, some added gravatoss.

Mm-hmm. And then we get to, like you said, the title track where they just go ham. And they're like, what if? What if we did a seven minute spoken word trip out? It's very like, like you said, the doors earlier, it's very the end vibes. Yeah, there's like some spooky possessed organ going on, which is always a nice touch. Let me hold you tight in hands, tight and long, you lost your chance, come so close that I might see the crash of light come down on me. I love that.

taste the wind and be like me i don't know what it means but it's provocative exactly it feels biblical to me it feels like these old paintings of like the city on fire and the divine lightning bolt and you know the wall of fire and ship again no skips i have to ask you a difficult question now okay let's go which of these two albums do you prefer that So Tonight that I might see is maybe the best album ever made. I think that she hangs brightly. Yeah, she hangs brightly is a fucking stone cold classic and I probably listen to that more now just because I've overplayed so tonight that I might see. But like to me she hangs brightly is not as timeless. It's not like so tonight that I might see like defies the boundaries of space and time and the 90s, you know, and Los Angeles, and you're just sort of like in the fucking cosmic void. So that today I may see, though, is like way more devastating and thusly more challenging in some ways can be to listen to the aforementioned fingers stuck up in your wound and moving their fucking acrylic nails around, you know?

Definitely. But I feel like people respond to this album more. so that must tell you something. Yeah, I mean, it also has, like, more memorable tracks on it, I think, like, obviously fade into you, but even into dust. Like, it has, like, sort of more salient tracks, whereas the first album is a bit more vibe-based. Yeah. I will say that, like, fade into you probably doesn't crack the top five of my favorite

songs on this record. On this album, not even Massey Star songs, just on this record. On this record, totally. Yeah, it's true. It's probably in my top five, but like it's definitely not number one. What's your number one? Maybe blue light. That's what I would say too. I also really like Hala, not on this album, but like Hala is definitely in my top five.

I love that song. Hala's been creeping up on my list. I like it maybe lately because it has a lighter tone a little bit, and sometimes it just like need to not be on suicide watch, you know? Musically speaking. Well, NMEe went ahead and gave this an eight. With their debut album, 1990s, She Hangs Brightly. Mazzy Star ensured their place in that corner of rocks honor rule

reserved for the enigmas and misfits. And then it goes on to describe that album and then talks about how good this album is. And then once again says, if David Lynch had set Twin Peaks in the balmy south rather than the snowy north, then be sure that his musical foils would properly have been Massey Star. For spooksome late night evocation, this pair have few peers.

Not spooksome. Spooksome. Do you think that's a British word that we just don't know about or the man was kind of playing fast and loose with the English language? Must be. You know, I wouldn't be surprised if David Lynch did ask Manzi started to play at the roadhouse and they said, no, thank you. We don't do television.

We don't like to be perceived. via the television. Yeah. I mean, we'll never know, but I could definitely see them saying absolutely the fuck not. Yeah. Entertainment Weekly gave it an A.

The LA Times gave it three and a half stars. I really liked the opening to that piece which says it's 3.37 in the morning. Never mind what your watch says. Whenever you listen to this album, it's 3.37 in the morning. That's good.

That's good stuff. He's not wrong. He also says something kind of rude where he's like, there's nothing fancy involved. It's hard to figure. out why this low-tech seemingly improvised follow-up to the duo's hypnotic 1990 debut took more than three years to complete. Rude.

Damn. Good things take time, David Thigpen. So what happens after this? Obviously, they get pretty big. Here's what they do. A bunch of interviews that they did not want to do. Let me give you some choice bits. A journalist once described talking to Massey Star as like being at the zoo

tied to a tree in the sloth cage. Okay. That's one of them. One said, I think my dentist might have felt right at home interviewing David Roeback and Hope Santa Ball of Massey Star. Frankly, I'd have preferred 40 minutes with my dentist.

Okay. Chris Roberts interviews them in 1930 for Melody Maker. He says, I say you're not keen on anything to do with the music business outside the music. You hate the interview ritual and you loathe pop culture in general. Is that a fair comment? hope. I'd say that was a fair comment. You dislike explaining the records? I dislike having to explain yes. You believe the records speak for themselves? And then they go, he goes, can you describe how you feel

when you sing? No. Do you enjoy singing? I used to enjoy it more than I do now. Great answers, honestly. Are they all love songs? Some of them are, and some of them are. And some of them aren't. You're very shy. Yes. Oh, it's so sad to think that like, were Mazzie Star to form a band in the year 2019, let's just say, they would go nowhere. Nowhere. Are you kidding? Nowhere. Like they would have, like, can you picture Hope's Animal making TikToks? Oh, I shuddered to think. That's what I'm saying. Thank God for the 90s where they were just like, okay, it's fine. Yeah.

It is pretty difficult for us to do promotional stuff. They're sort of introverted people. This one is also amazing. This is the Bob in 1994. The Bob was like an alt-weekly in, I think, Boston. What did you enjoy doing as a kid, David, aside from music? G, long pause. Ask Hope something.

I'll come back to that in a minute. The guy goes, okay, then Hope, what did you like to do as a kid? It wasn't so long ago for you. she goes, I can't really remember anything. Then the guy goes, come on. There must be something in your childhood you can remember. Barbie dolls, baseball, karate. And she goes, no, I didn't like baseball when I was a kid.

So good. And I was like, well, what kind of kid were you then? And she goes, I don't really know what kind of kid I was. I can't really think of anything. Amazing. Just. And then here's where we get into the Goss, 1994. So, 1994, hope guests on the Jesus and Mary Chan.

song sometimes always off stoneed into throne. Just iconic. Legendary song, legendary vocal performance. Here's what the piece says. She's rumored to be the girlfriend of William Reed, to which he currently replies, we're just good friends. He's lying. It is later confirmed that they are absolutely dating. Yes. Then it's confirmed more in details where they're like, oh, ordinarily the fact that Hope has been dating the Mary Chains William Reed would be of interest only to those select fans for whom indie music is as glamorous as the cast of Melrose Place because some fan recognizes them. But then, in the same details article, this writer says Sylvia, you know, from

going home, Sylvia goes to college and Hope and David started dating. Just says it like a fact. So. Fancy that. And that is right before Opel splits up. who David's girlfriend was the singer of Opel. I'm just saying I'm simply putting that timeline out there for you guys. One thing I don't think we've mentioned yet is that after Kendra Smith leaves Opal, she moves to a cabin in the woods with no electricity. We've all been there. We've all been through a rough breakup with a musician

who leaves you for a younger woman, causing you to reject the project of modernity and escape to a cabin in the woods with no electricity. Also, I'm pretty sure I also read that he also dated Susanna Hoffs. This is what I'm saying. This is a bit of a pattern. So that's okay, you know. This is what he likes to do.

Yeah. Irresistible, strong and silent type guitar, Strummer doesn't watch television, wears sunglasses, you know. These women are only human. Yeah. What can they? They have two ears and a heart and two eyes. By 1996, it's absolutely confirmed.

And Hope is like living with William Reed in London. There's a couple of things in different interviews where they like allude to David having a hard time seeing Hope and William together. Oh, interesting. Yeah. And in Alt Press, there's an Alt Press. There's an alt-press cover story in 1986, and the guy at the end is like,

we watch Hope say goodbye to William, but after 10 seconds or so, David can't bear to witness it anymore and says, come on, let's go. That could just be editorializing on the part of the leader. David could just not want to be there anymore, but I thought it was interesting. I think they do obviously break up eventually,

her and William, but I don't know when. So back to our timeline. In August of 1994, Mazzie Starr does their first television appearance. They are perceived through the television on Conan O'Brien. You've watched this, right? Mm-hmm. Pretty amazing. She's like a statue.

It's cool, and it's mesmerizing, but she really just does not move. It's almost braver for her, by the way, to do what she does. Totally. And then to sort of get into it and jangle a little tambourine. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that was like you brought it up earlier, but she really hated performing live for a long time because she felt she shouldn't be expected to like put on some clown show for everyone. Like that's not her exact words, but you know, she's like why I'm here to sing. Like I don't, why do I, they expect me like talk and dance and stuff. Like that's not what I do. And she refused to do it, which is commendable. But if she had been ugly, she wouldn't have had this option. So I'm just saying, it must be. be nice, Hope's Anteval, to have the beauty that afforded you, you know, not having to clown around. They interviewed them about this Conan O'Brien appearance, and Hope said it was totally unpleasant for me. And she goes, if you're nervous in front of 500 people, and then David interrupts her and goes, they were nice to us.

It wasn't unpleasant in that way. And then she goes, they were really nice to us. I just get nervous and tight. and it's so bright. We're not used to all that bright light. Oh. She hated it, man. She fucking hated it.

So then they tour with the Jesus and Mary Chain, boyfriend girlfriend tour, and then they perform at Neil Young's Bridge School Benefit. There's also a great video of this on YouTube in October of 1984. And then presumably they hold up and go make the next album. Megan, it's 1990. Babe. Damn right it is. Spice Girls have come into the chat.

Is that not so meaningful and important? Oh my God. I still remember my birthday. Seeing the Spice Girls movie was maybe one of the most ecstatic moments of my life. What else is happening in 1986? I'll tell you, top selling albums. Backstreet Boys. Backstreet Boys. Dave Matthews Band. My guy, my dog, my dude, I'm heavily listening to this album in 1996, but I'm not telling anybody about it. Also sublime, self-titled comes out this year. Fiona Apple Title, that's a good year for music.

Also, among my swan, October 29th, 1996. This is the first Mazzie Star album that has the credit for presentation. production to Mazzie Star, so not just David. Oh, interesting. Yeah. There was a, there was a little interview in Ray Gunn magazine, and they said, I noticed you have a co-production credit on this record. And Hope said, well, David does most of the producing, but we both analyze each and every song and sort of decide what guitar or whatever. I mean, obviously, mostly that's his, because he's the guitarist. But I figured I should get a producer's credit because I was involved with most of it. Yeah. That's right. She was like, why are you?

have to get all the producer credit just because you know about guitars. I know about other stuff. I mean, I think, like, Rick Rubin proves that, like, vibes play immense part in production. She was absolutely curating the vibes. You know it. You know she was. She's probably lighting little candles around the stew, you know. But some dried flowers here and there. Okay, this album, I guess, due to the goodwill of the last two albums, hits number 67 on the Billboard 200, doesn't have any hits. I guess the single was Flowers in December. Mm-hmm. I can see that. More importantly, music from this album appears on two extremely iconic soundtracks. Well, technically, one was an outtake from this album, so it wasn't

actually on the album. It's called Tell Me Now. It's on the soundtrack to Batman Forever. Oh, whoa. Yeah. You know, I mean, everyone knows the U2 song, Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me or whatever. But also has a PJ Harvey song, one time too many. Sunny Day real estate song on song 8. Wow. And a pretty amazing Michael Hutchins cover of The Passenger. And then secondly, an extremely formative soundtrack for me.

And I'm not really sure why. I just really liked the movie. So I ended up buying the soundtrack. I don't know if it was formative for everyone else. But did you ever see Stealing Beauty? No, but that's ringing a bell. What is that? Oh, God.

You would love it. It's Liv Tyler. I don't want to say it was her first movie, but it might be wrong, but it's one of her first movies. And it's like this whole thing about her being a teenager and going to visit family in Italy and on a quest to lose her virginity and like this romantic like Tuscan countryside or whatever.

Again, I haven't seen it a long time. But it had the most amazing fucking soundtrack. It had cocto twins on it, had Liz Phair on it, Portishead, glory box. And then it had rhymes of an hour. Holy shit.

Yeah. I honestly think I got into Cockto. twins because of that soundtrack. Because I like wasn't that cool before I was 14 years old that I was like bumping cocktail twins all the time. And there's this, the song Alice is on there. And I was like, what the fuck is this? This is amazing.

Yeah. Let's talk about the album. I want to read you one quote before we get into it. It's about the songwriting. They ask, does hope need turmoil or conflict in her life to write lyrics? And she says, I don't know if people need it. I just think it's there. So people write about it.

And then the person goes, in your experience, is it a spur to create or can you create when things are going well? I don't know. I never really have things going well. Oh, man. She's like going well, I do not know her. I'm sorry. Unfamiliar. Wow.

What I'm realizing from this is that like music writers have been asking some dumb. fucking questions from the dawn of time. From the jump. You know what else I was thinking about just like in my own mind earlier today? I was thinking about how we were and we're pretty much done with most of the Goss and T section, but like and how we were feeling a little bad like hope wouldn't like it. But like we're only fucking human and there's something mythical about musical artists that we can't help but want to. to know more about everything about their lives because it informs the music.

Like, this has been since the dawn of time. I'm sure people were like, who Mozart fucking? You know what I mean? Like, I promise you. That has been like in the cultural conversation since the beginning. It's just, it's human nature. Definitely. Oh, God. I was thinking, I said earlier that like it was brave for Hope Sandoval to sort of remain withdrawn and under pressure to perform in the way that people want someone to perform. But I was kind of, I want to amend that actually, because you know how there's such like a strong impetus nowadays to like, tell your story.

I'm using air quotes. And like it's implied that there's some kind of like inherent good in telling your story and some progress and some like social greater good or whatever. But I feel like what Mazzie Starr suggests is like, what if you didn't tell your story? Like what if you found a different way that didn't involve doing this kind of of like narrative transaction with the world. Like, oh, okay, like, if I go ahead and spill my guts to the public, like everyone so incentivized to do nowadays, like, is that the only way for my story

to be, like, valid? And, like, to me, there's something kind of noble about being, like, actually, I don't owe you anything juicy or specific or personal at all, even though that's what we've been sort of, like, grasping towards this whole time. And, like, in the case of me, as you start what they're giving you is something arguably much more special, which is this wonderful, slippery little mystery that's like still so captivating after all this time because there's things left on set and because it's unresolved and like because your mind gets to roam into these places that like David Robeck was talking about before, you know, that being said, doesn't mean we can't try to scrounge up the fucking tea.

But I, one billion percent agree with you. it's so beautifully. I've lately been in my bag of, actually, you don't have to tell everyone everything at myself, but also at everyone else. Like, I mean, it is sort of a symptom of, I don't know, what is it, mid-2000s, Tumblr. Yeah. And then like the confessional essay era. But you're right. It was, it was incentivized. It was transactional. It became a thing where you were like, if I show you these very like private horrible things about myself, you will gain a false intimacy with me. And then I'll have, I mean, it's all tied into the internet, right? Because it's like then you have followers, you know?

Like I don't, I don't, I never really see artists doing this much before. I mean, I guess they didn't have avenues as much. I mean, some were more public and more forthcoming than others. but like it's a whole other ballgame and I think we're all I'm definitely a spiritually sick because of it and like cannot shake like it's so hard to discern the difference between like being authentically lit up by something or feeling that it might bring you validation which is totally different but for whatever reason like my brain is so broken now by like dopamine overload and like all this stuff that it's like an active daily practice to be like

do you really want even with like I don't know if you have this experience will be like invite you to something and you'll be like I literally have to sit and parse to be like do I want to go to that or do I think it's cool to go to that or whatever and then I'm like disgusting like yeah who cares I don't want to go to the thing that I think is cool to go to who fucking cares I want to go because I'm going to have a nice time. Definitely. I say 10 times out of 10, don't go. Don't go. Stay home, bitch, actually. Full stay home, core. Sad girls, we stay home. You have to wistfully look out the window from inside your own home or the car. Exactly. Exactly. They also, I think this was also in Rocks Deluxe magazine. I think it was French.

Ooh, la la. That's right. Ula, Bange. They were like, why are all your songs sad, essentially? And Hope was like, not all our songs are sad. The ones that are because we felt that way at the time. But we like to look at it from both sides. Happy and ride it on are happy. Happy the song. Another thing is we make happy songs and people are sad. What do you think, David?

And David goes, about what? And she goes, about our music, whether it's happy or not. David goes, I don't care. But then he talks more. he's like, we don't make music to be understood or misunderstood. Our songs are just to be felt. We like to trust the listener's imagination. It's kind of like what you were saying honestly before, trusting the listener's imagination.

Yeah. But for me, the most interesting thing about all music is that another person may participate in it. When I listen to records in my house, images never stop coming to my mind. It depends on each person, what kind of sensations music wakes up for them. I'm like obsessed with David Roeback. I feel like as a culture and society, we fixated a bit too much. on Hope Sandoval, we're like, secretly David Roak was back here having these, like, profound views of the world and we didn't know about it until I got on some insane fan website that

archived all of their interviews. Yeah, he's, he's really, like, spinning. But like, also, you know, what he's talking about is so, I feel that so much nowadays, because so much music writing, so much everything really, so much writing in general puts so much emphasis on like the hero's journey of a work of art or like the personal narrative, the trauma, the identity or whatever. And that's all well and good and like certainly relevant to the kind of art that a person makes. But like, isn't there something more to art than that that's like can't be so literally translated and is intangible? And like, this is where we enter the realm. of like intuition and feeling and like feminine.

Yeah. Yeah. And vibes. Like and fucking vibes. You know, things that can't be like translated into rational terms. And like that's where the magic is. And that's where.

And that's like the power of Mazi Star is that they're like so staunchly positioned in like this irrational world of feeling. And like just refuse to translate it into like the logical world. You know? That's very. Marable. The masculine. It's so true. You're so right.

And also like, this is like fucking simpleton statement, but like, art is for us to project our own hero's journey. Yeah. On to our own. Like, we're, like, I'm the fucking main character. I said it about pavement and I'll say it about everything. It's like, I don't care what Stephen Malcolm is fucking writing about. This song is about me and my ex-boyfriend. Do you know what I mean?

And that, and for that to be possible, it's such an important. important part for me about experiencing, particularly music, but like art in general. Definitely. Okay. Let's get into this, this beautiful album. It's so good, right? Like, you expect, you're like, okay, surely on the third album, there'll be some waning quality. Mm-hmm. No? I mean, this album's grown on me a lot, too. Like, at first, this was pretty, I mean, there's four albums, so it can't be that far down on the bottom, but this was probably at the bottom of my list. But, like, But it's so grown on me over the years, especially like I feel like as the years go by, they just become more of like a country band. And like David Robeck's guitar playing particularly.

Like I feel like he gets more comfortable of being more straightforward and just being more like, and a one. A two. But still, but without losing the intrigue, but like not having to be so shrouded in an atmosphere. Yeah. No, it's true. Yeah, this one is, I mean, they still have their moments like rhymes of an hour, which is one of my favorite Massey's songs is absolute just like shrouded in atmosphere. Like it is vibey as fuck.

But the single, like, to your point, is like very like, all right, we got a harmonica and a dream. Let's go. And it's awesome. It's a beautiful song. They got the boyfriend on here, William Reed. He plays guitar on Take Everything. Oh my God.

I think Cry Cry Cry is one of my favorite songs on this album. It's probably might be my favorite song on this album. Well, it's another one of those like fade into you fakeouts that you were talking about before, you know? And I also feel like this song, like if given the opportunity, I feel like a suburban bar band could like knock this out of the park. You know what I mean? Like there's something really familiar about it that I think would go off in like small town America. I like your agenda of bringing Mazie Star to local watering holes. Like this is like really what you're trying to do.

and it's just it's not taking like it's not happening but i i i'm rooting for you i hope it does i'll never stop i'll never never letting it go still cold that one really fucks me up yeah you oh all the how come there's always someone else drive in your car oh i love that life oh you really had a million hearts to break stop i must say this woman went through it it judging by judging by this. All your sisters, I wanted to get your opinion,

my instincts whenever I hear all your sisters are like, okay, sisters of the moon stripped down, let's fucking go. It's like giving Stevie Nix heavy to me.

For sure, this is like definitely a haunted one, like a little, a little parsley sage rosemary in time, if you will. That's not to this day

makes me feel so uncomfortable. I can't listen to it. It's so, it's a horror song. It's so spooky. It's scary. And this song, All Your Sisters, has one of their scariest lines ever, I think, which is, I'm going to put something in you, make the devil feel surprised. All your sisters want to fly around my golden sky. I'm going to put something in. She was doing real witchcraft here within the song.

Definitely. Imagine that song is about you. I do enjoy how frequently she's talking about the devil these days. He comes up a lot. Well, she seems a little haunted. Also, this is a side thing, but in my desperate search to find any instance of Lana Del Rey referencing Massey Star, which, by the way, I did not find. And I did find a website on Lannopedia that has an entire taxonomy of every person that Lana Del Rey has mentioned or referenced in song, including biblical figures, her friends, her family, fictional characters. There's like no Mazzy Star, I hope Sandeval, not in the song.

The devil does come up though. Yeah. Well, we all know to be true that Lana is Masi Star Hive. I mean, there's just no way. It must be the kind of thing where she's like, I simply won't say it because you all know it. I don't have to even. Yeah. Or I don't know.

Perhaps there's some uncanny situation where she's like, I don't know her. And absolutely embodied much of. what was going on here. Who can say? Interesting. I didn't go through it. I like, I've been let down. I just wrote just a gorgeous little ditty. Yeah, just a little country strummer.

Yeah, little country strummer. Oh, yeah. Roseblood, back to being absolute Halloween, spooky, fucking chilling me to my core hours. Mm-hmm. This is, like, low-key, this one has the most scary songs on it. Yeah, it does. Umbilical coming up. Umbilical, bro.

Although they're like, happy's happy, and I'm like, is happy happy? Like to hoomsed. But yeah, umbilical, what? This is like the song that they seem to put on every album in some version or another where there's like, it's psyche and weird and there's like odd spoken word on it. But this is like indecipherable spoken word almost. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but is this about a twin eating her sister in the womb? Is it? Yeah. I mean, the extra feeling inside her soul makes her cry does sort of indicate that to me, you know? That was a really, not that you mention it, that was a really big trope and story in my youth that, you know what? You don't hear much these days about the twin eating the other twin in the womb. But it was, I remember reading a book about it. I feel like I saw a movie about it. I think it was like lit in the 90s, this story.

That and acid rain really fell off. Fucking fell off, dude. Bring eating the twin in the womb back, you cowards. Yeah, maybe she really was in her, like, occult bag during this time. I mean, still, I love this album, but I think I would still agree with you that it's still fourth on my rankings. Yeah. Not that art is meant to be ranked, but... Yeah.

This is just, I just had to read it to you because I do feel Megan Garvey that you and I, we are in many ways similar. This is from pop magazine, a different pop magazine. And I just wanted to do one editorial line where they said, she spends most of her time behind the blinds in her flat, tends to isolate herself altogether and has also managed to develop a shopping mania that for a period knew no bounds. No. It me, babe. It absolutely the fuck me inside my house ordering packages day in and day out. Oh my God. She's stars there just like us for real. Just like us for real. It cannot fill the void, but it doesn't hurt. It doesn't empty the void. That's for sure. I put an infrared sauna on my credit card. Did you know that you could do that? A structure, an entire structure arrived at my home. I need to be put in prison. Go off. Truly a credit card is a dangerous thing for a woman like me to have, but I have several.

Anyways, I felt really close to Hope Sanneval in that moment from behind the blinds online shopping. I wonder, it must have been hard for her to do that in 1996, bitch. How were you like getting that dial-up squawk internet to go? Like, what were you on the phone with the catalog? Like, how were you doing this? Oh, my God. She had to overcome obstacles for us. It's just tap, tap.

Apple pay. Like, she truly, she had to go far to get stuff delivered to the home. Iconic behavior. Amazing. I have some good, a good little gossip nugget for you about Look on Down from the Bridge. Please, yes, give it to me. Well, before I give you that, we should, okay. Season 1, Episode 4, Sopranos. In this episode, Look on Down from the Bridge, soundtracks, a funeral scene for a young, a young Jackie Appreel Jr., who's kind of like,

dropped out of college and got involved in the mob, and it turned out real bad for him. So this song plays. It also, I learned much more lamely soundtracks on episode of Rick and Morty. And I learned this when I was on my little YouTube crusade. And for every comment that's like, I used to be. in a rehab clinic called The Bridge and this song hits extra hard now. And then in between that, it's like, Rick and Morty sent me here. I'm like, oh, great. No, Rick, that honestly, if I was maddie sorry, I would sue. Yeah. Here's a nugget I found that I feel like is especially Yossi core.

I love it. It was about shopping. Granted, this comes from Reddit, so let's take it with a few grains of salt, but there is a rumor that around this time, Hope Sandoval and Anthony Ketus were an item. Stop. And here, right the fuck now.

Okay, and here's what these sleuths had to say. They said that look on down from the bridge is referencing under the bridge. And then apparently there's another, there's like a chili pepper's lyric that says, my

melancholy baby, I'm turning into dust. again. There is that one. Oh my God. I know that lyric. The star of Mazzy must push her force inside of me. I'm spinning. Isn't it crazy? I want you to imagine what happened in her life. That's aeroplane. That song is so good off of One Hot Minute, which did come out in 1996. Mm-hmm. 1995. Okay, whatever. We're in the same wheelhouse. Yeah. Okay, hold the fucking goddamn phone for a second.

So what is happening? So you have broken up with William Reed. Somehow he's still on this album. How that went. You went from David Roebuck to William Reed. I don't know if you've seen what William Reed looked like. Yeah. The hair.

Yeah. To Anthony fucking Kedis. Like, you know what that's kind of like? You know, it's like when a man dates like really serious women. and then he like just can't take it anymore and just goes full bimbo like the jeff bezos yeah you know of it all like that like hope sannaval was like i'm done with you fucking sad weird smart fucks i need a bimbo and i get ketis on the horn exactly and ketis was like you rang here i am i'm gorgeous no thoughts just vibes also he loves a youth

full-looking woman. So we know that. Wow. I my blood pressure is so like up right now. Like my aura ring has recently started reporting to me my stress levels throughout the day, which I honestly don't need. But I'm sure when I consult it later, it's going to be like what happened at 1.29 p.m. Because your heart rate went so high. That one was burning a hole in my pocket for you. It's amazing that you held on to it this long. Again, we'll never know, but I'm going to find out somehow. I know we'll never know, but it is now going to be my mission. And unfortunately, if I'm ever in a social situation or a party environment with one mystery Anthony Kedis, I will be asking that first things first. Oh, I believe that you will.

I'll be like, it's nice to meet you. Did you date hope Sandoval? And he's going to be like, can you have this woman removed from the party? Oh, wow. Wow. I mean, what you're saying, fucking, I'm sorry, that's rock solid evidence. I know. Thanks Reddit.

Bro. I mean, Reddit, it's a necessary evil. I just need a moment to clock myself. I've never been so... Ooh. Okay, I just want to read you another one of, like, David Roeback's, like, Buddha-level interview answer. So they're basically in alternative press. That cover story.

they ask, they're like, oh, like, many people say that so tonight is a really good record to have sex to. Oh. Is that coincidental or were you trying to do that? And Hope was like, are those close friends that told you that? David's like, no one ever told me that. And Hope was like, the last journalist that told me that I hung up on him and called my manager. But anyway, so then they're like talking about like Hope Sandival and like her image and like how people talk about her. She exudes female passivity.

The pair are glamorizing heroin addiction, which there's no proof at all that they did have. And Hope's like, well, it's just a person. Like I think that writer is creating an image of herself more than an image of me. And David says, everybody's opinions are just a reaction to something that is happening in their own personal lives. If we were to react to everybody's opinion, there are so many weirdos. Amen, brother. Honestly, spitting, as you said. Like, what you think about me is actually none of my fucking business. That's your, that's about you, babe. And I'll pray for you, but it's nothing to do with me. Yeah. That also reminds me of, remember when Lana was like, I'm not glamorizing abuse. I'm just a

glamorous person singing about abuse. Show me the fucking lie. Sue me. Sue me, babe. Legend, legend behavior. There are very few public figures on whom the pressure of being correct or being appeasing people just absolutely has no impact on them. And Lana is definitely one of them. And I cannot help but stand. She clearly just could not care less.

Or if she does, we don't know about it. I don't know. I don't know her heart and mind. Everyone cares. But the way she handles it is chef's kiss. It's like how Kate Moss never did a fucking interview in her goddamn life. They were like, she's a Coke Monster, she's this, she murdered someone. She's like, okay.

She's like, look at my cheekbones. I do you think I fucking care what you think? I'm rich. This album, despite getting pretty good reviews, like Entertainment Weekly gave in an A. I only got a couple of reviews, though. People kind of stopped caring about Matthew Star on 96. It didn't do well commercially. Okay.

They tour the album. They start to work on new material. They record a couple of tracks. And Capital Records apparently was like, what if you guys work with a big name producer? I couldn't get down to any actual suggestions, but obviously any outside influence is not going to be welcomed with open arms. Hope Sandoval was like, what if you let us out of our contract? Because we don't, we don't fit in here or whatever. She actually told in an interview, she said, it seemed record companies wanted bands to be.

creative because they didn't know how to manufacture underground music. We could do our own thing and go at our own pace. But that changed when major labels started wanting bands that would sell seven million records. They had a formula. And suddenly all these people wanted to come to the studio to keep track of what we were doing and make sure we were following that formula. So we got out. Yeah. Word. I mean, I hope that, I hope Sandoval doesn't pay attention to what the music industry is like now because it's even worse, babe. Oh my God. She's like, again, TikTok. Do you think Hope Sandoval has ever looked at TikTok? You don't think like myself Hope Sandoval uses TikTok just for the exquisite algorithm that brings you astrologers and like mentally ill Gen Z like manifestation influencers?

You know, never say I should never say never because like I feel like behind every sad girl trademark is someone who like is spends two hours. day on the Vanderpump Rural subreddit, such as myself. You know what my fucking favorite thing is? Like, full lobotomy hours, and I could watch hours of it, are those girls on TikTok who all live in, like, the same looking apartments that are all just like white, white marble, whatever. They have every, like, state of the art, but, like, influence or appliance, like a smeg toaster or whatever.

And then they just are like, I'm in some cashmere. here's my morning. Here's what I eat in a day. It's probably my latent eating disorder stuff. And then also like my morning routine. And it's just them narrating as they like pour ice into like a thing and they like froth some oat milk. And they're like, I made a matcha and then I made it an avocado toast. Here it is.

Like I can't stop fucking watching those. I can't stop. Okay. I've never seen those and it does. It's not like calling to me. but I'm happy that it speaks to you. It's not engaging, okay? It's not stimulating.

It's the opposite. It is like having a lobotomy. It's like just being briefly lobotomized because you're like, oh, okay, what's you going to put on this? Oh, interesting. Oh, she used yogurt instead of mayonnaise. Wow, that's interesting. That's, this is literally all that goes on.

And I could just sit, I can sit for hours and have no thoughts and just observe them and they're all white. Like, it's giving, it's giving mental asylum. Like it's giving padded room, but with nice appliances. Okay. This scares me, but that's okay. Perhaps I just talk to my therapist about this. So they get out of their contract.

I'm sure Capital was like, you know what? Honestly, you guys are fucking annoying. See ya, like, have a good life. And so that's in, whatever, 96, 97. They're kind of quiet for a while. Then Hope Sandoval forms. Hope Sandoval and the warm inventions with the dream. drummer from My Bloody Valentine.

Oh, I've been waiting for this moment. Were you waiting for me to try to pronounce his name because I can't do it. Calm. Calm or Colse? Kosai. Kosog? He's like Irish? Coma Kosei?

That's... I'm so sorry. That's right. I'm really sorry to the Irish American or Scottish American comedian or Irish. I just, I'm sorry, I can't do that. We'll call him calm. We'll stay on a first name basis. Yeah.

Do you think after Ketus? She was like... Actually, I was wrong. I don't want a hymbo. I want one of these guys again. What about Colma Coles? Yeah. I mean, I need like an Irish lad who likes castles of yore and shit. And like plays in my bloody valiant and like very up her alley. And he was pretty hot. Oh, yeah. He looks good. So the first album they put out is called Bavarian Fruit Bread. Love that. A really good name. And I love this album, actually.

I hadn't really revisited it much. It's not Massey Star. Yeah. It's not even we have Massey Star at home. It's like kind of like, it's just kind of different, right? It has this like, it's less dense. Yeah, less dense, more folksy. Foksy, light, airy, kind of airy.

Yeah. A little orchestral. Yeah. Yeah. Susanna's really pretty on the low. straight up horny song. That song is so funny because it's almost trip hop. You know what I mean?

Yeah, we're getting in. But trip hop with harmonicas, which sounds utterly fucking god-awful in theory, but kind of cool in practice. That song is really good. And it's like normal horny instead of like kill yourself horny, which is more what Massey Star was, you know, dealing in. But yeah, great album. You know, some people cared. They toured Europe. Nothing is happening with Maddie Star, right?

You don't hear head or tail of them. Hope Zandaval and the Warm Inventions put out another album. That's 2009. It's called Through the Devil Softly. Also a good album. I like this one too. I used to find this so boring compared to Masi Star. And I don't know.

Maybe you've got to get a little older to appreciate it. I think so. I think this is like the music of, and this is with love and respect and honoring. But it fills the same. same place sometimes for me of those TikToks that I just described. Or like sometimes you just want to put on something and it's like, it's just there with you and it's nice. Yeah.

Also, like, some of the most autobiographical lyrics that Hope has written, I think, like, there's this song Blanchard where she's like, all those times you sent my brother down your road holding on to the dope that you sold. I knew then that we could never be blessed. And I don't think we mentioned this in the beginning, but apparently her brother was in a gang when she was younger. And, like, to me, this is the first time that anything actually connects to something that could be talking about her life in any, like, straight on way at all. It's kind of cool. Yeah, I mean, we haven't even talked about something that I think is so interesting where, like, they're really,

weren't many Mexican-American front people, whatever, artists, music, famous in the 90s in the rock space. But because she was so private, I don't think people really much talked about it. She does get interviewed for a couple of Mexican magazines and they kind of talk about it. But I mean, like, you know, she's from East L.A. Yeah. I wanted to ask Susie Exposito about it, like, because I know she had a connection with Massey Star. And I think, you know, we talked about it on the Death Jones episode, which later there's obviously like Chino-Mirino and other representations. But I just, I thought that was interesting.

And it is interesting that she never really mentions anything about her background or upbringing until that song. Also, did you read that one of her brothers was a punk rock florist? No. And he would make floral arrangements out of like barbed wire. Oh my God. That's so tight. Obsessed. There's some slappers on this fucking album.

Like, do you like it better than the first one? Yeah. The first warm inventions. I think I do. I think I do. Dude, trouble is a fucking banger. This is like Twin Peaks Roadhouse meets like ultraviolence era Lana with like those evil 50s guitar chords that are just like fucking crack to me. It's fucking good.

It's interesting. I think it might have been a little ahead of its time and also maybe people just weren't checking for this kind of music in 2009. I wouldn't really know because as the listeners on this program now in 2009, I was exclusively listening to the Smiths and Dipset and had no awareness or real understanding of any new music that was coming out. What's that, Indy Sleys? What's happening in 2009?

Well, I mean, 2009 is like, yeah, Indy Slees. I was thinking about this in terms of... Blog House. Yeah, blog house is happening. But then, like, the worst, like, party rap, music you've ever heard in your fucking life. Is this one the uncle and the nephew who made the rap songs? Yeah, the party rock anthems and all these songs.

Mark Fisher has written wonderfully about this. And it's like this time period, this like recession era, like post recession, where like every song in the radio is like, aren't we having fun? Aren't we having the best night of our life? Aren't we? You know? And like this like chinty like proto EDM and shit. So I don't really.

So right. You're so right. So I think like... Disgusting. Yeah. So I think that's understandable. This is why I blacked out this time period. I've said it's the ugliest most disgusting gold lame, American apparel, fucking leggings.

Just fucking keep it. Like nobody wants to revisit this time. Oh my God. If photos of me were to leak from this era, I'd have to throw myself off a fucking bridge. Like... It was not giving for me. I mean, a little earlier was when it was really dark because I was like, I was like, I was like full street wear.

It happens. But all that to say that like I don't think people, I don't think like Hope Sandoval was moving the needle at this time. No, definitely not. Okay. Also in 2009 though, Into Dust randomly reenters the UK singles chart because it was in a commercial for Virgin Media.

Oh, wow. Then two years later, they put it in the trailer for a video game called Gears of War Thirteen. Yeah, that's the one that the guy in the motorcycle club heard instead of crying about his dead friends. God bless. God bless these, like, real, like, devoted music supervisors who take any opportunity they can to be like, what if we put into dust here and like, let's get Massey Star a check, you know? Yeah.

The people at Gears of War III are like, that's fine. That sounds good. Yeah, and a game, I guess, about having a war on. know. Also in 2009, big year for a couple of things. The third being that she's interviewed about, you know, her new album with the warm inventions and she lets it slip or confirms or whatever that Massey Star is still making music. Right. She's like, it's true. We're still together. We're almost finished with the record, but I have no idea what that means. Perfect. Well, perfect. 2011, October 7th, a super important date.

Lana Del Rey releases video games. Oh my gosh. Here we go. Never forget where you were when Lana Delray released video games. It's you. It's all for you. Everything I do. I'm just saying in our timeline, it's important that it's here. Yeah, it's super important.

I was just thinking about video games earlier today in the context of of Mazzie Stark. Oh, you know what else was going on at that time in the late 2000s and like early 2010s was a lot of like empowerment, like a lot of female empowerment. We're starting the girl boss era and it's like you are strong, you are powerful. You are making your own money and you don't need anybody much less a man and you eat men for breakfast and spit out their bones and you don't need any help and you will be prosperous. And then Like nasty gal. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And then along comes Lana, who is like, actually my idea of just like pure ecstasy is like crack a beer with my fucking deadbeat boyfriend and watch him play call of duty, you know, which I think is tapping into this idea of surrender that you were talking about before. It's like you don't have to be the boss of everything. You don't have to be in control. Maybe the power is in like relinquishing the power to like the chaos of life and love and being an artist and life is a highway. Life is a highway. Exactly.

Thank you. No, but I mean, that's the divine feminine, right? And I think that's what was largely forgotten by the girl boss movement is that like the divine feminine is not a boss. It's not about being a boss. It's not about control. It's not about exertion. It's not about insertion. And it's literally about receiving and like, like you said, like surrender and sort of like going with the flow and the magical, mystical, intuitive.

We'll save it for the Lina. So we don't have a whole sidebar. But it took a while for people to respect that about Lana. You know, she was really maligned for it in the beginning in a lot of ways. Yeah, 100%. People were like, this has set back the feminist movement by decades, you know. I'm not totally sure that was true, but I did go see Lana Del Rey perform. I think it was 2012.

Oh, cool. Where? At the Trubidor. Wow, awesome. Yeah. What was she like? I guess similar to what Hope Sandoval was like. I think that people were really sort of like what she doesn't move, she doesn't do anything, like what's the deal.

Yeah. But I mean, I love the song. So I was, you know, honored to be there. Yeah. She did have that Hope thing where it was like, I'm not your dancing monkey. I'm not going to do choreography. Yeah. I'm just going to stand here and sing with my cascading Auburn hair in my face.

They asked Hope Sanival in an interview. Ultraviolence by Lana Del Rey is quite Mazzie Star, don't you think? And Hope says, I do not know who she is. Oh my God, amazing. Yeah, and Colm is like, we have not heard the album. I know who she is, but we have not heard the album. Wow. And Hope goes, I don't know who she is.

Is she American? And they're like, yeah, she's American. She's from New York. And Hope goes, okay, I don't know who she is, but I'll seek her out. I like the name. And they go, it's not her real name. Her name is Elizabeth Grant. And Hope goes, it's a good stage name.

I love that. However, I feel that, like, I think that at that time, Hope would have thought Lana was a bit contrived. You know what I mean? Sure. Incorrectly. Misjudging her as many did, but. As many did. Yeah.

Okay. Well, anyways, back 2011. So two years after it's revealed in Rolling Stone that they're still a band, they just randomly put out a single. First new material in 15 years. Common Burn and Lay Myself Down. Okay. They release it digitally.

That's it. Okay. I like Common Burn. I love Common Burn. Some common burn. Not the first thing that screams single to me, but it's so pretty. I know, but like, we'll get to it because the album comes out about two years later. Okay.

The move of releasing a single and then putting the album out two years after is absolutely Chef's Kiss. So everyone's excited. They do an 18-date California and European tour in 2012, including playing Coachella 2012, where your pal Yossi got to save them play. What? This was a particularly iconic Coachella for me on many levels. I went with the black lips and that was like just super fun because they were playing. This is also the year of the Tupac and Biggie holograms, if you'll remember.

Oh, wow. Yeah. What a treat for you. What a treat. Radio had played, but also I got to stand on stage and watch Azalea Banks play. Whoa. This was a sick. I think Florence the Machine played.

Like this was a very. it was like one of the last years where Coachella was still fun. Also I remember like having doing like a guerrilla interview with the weekend backstage because he was not, he was still like underground cool guy the weekend. Yeah. Yeah, that was iconic. But anyways, Maddie Star played that. And then they put out an album. In Newsweek in 2013, they're like, well, why did you decide to put out the album? And David said, we were in Norway recently and all the hills had snow on them. We were rolling. down a hill. We got to the bottom of the hill and said, let's release an album. Fuck, yes. Okay, so 17 years later, they put out their fourth album. Who cares what the music industry is like, because it has anything to do with them. Seasons of your day. You know what, bitch. Not you, bitch, the collective bitch. Almost always. Not sometimes always, almost always.

when we get to later career things of an artist it is unfortunately a bit we have XYZ band at home. It just is the law of the land it is God's plan it is nature I don't know how to explain it

not here babe. No not at all this one rises in the ranks for me every year too and this is also my like shout out to David Roebuck album like let's let's tip our hat to David Roeback for a second

because his yeah Because his guitar is just so beautiful here. Like, it's so good. And I feel like this is like their, they're like cosmic country record more than anything else. It's more of like a summertime record for that. Totally. No, totally. It is, I mean, exactly.

It has the like feeling of like we've loosened our icy grip on the immediacy of the pain of youth. Yeah. You know, and now we're, which, you know, hopefully all sad girls do. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Getting older definitely helps. It's just like perspective, man. But it usually doesn't help to make better music because there's something so powerful about that visceral, like, I'm going to die if you leave me feeling. But let's get into it. I fucking love this. I think part of the reason, to be fair, I think part of the reason it's so good is because it's not material they wrote 17 years later. It's a, mix of material that they've been writing since 1997. And there's no telling because they won't admit which songs are from where there's

definitely like, I think, lay myself down. The guitarist Stephen McCarthy from The Lone Writers, he plays pedal steel on it. And he was like, yeah, I play pedal steel on that song in the early 90s. Yeah, that's so cool. By the way, they were one of like the really good bands from the Paisley Underground. If anyone needs like a starting point, like the Long Riders. were kind of sick. Get into it,

but get into it. He actually apparently auditioned to be a member of Massey Star in 1990, but didn't happen. And then they brought him back. They were like, oh, is it 25 years later? Can you play pedal steel on that song again? And he was like, okay.

I can't believe it took them that long to get some pedal steel in the mix because it sounds so right with them. Yeah, it really does. It fits imperfectly. Okay, I need to tell you something. Have you ever seen being there? I think it's a 70s film.

I guess I haven't. starring Peter Sellers, best known as The Pink Panther. You know who recommended this to me? Get ready for this. When I interviewed recently, Miss Bethany Costantino. Dude, it's one of our favorite movies. We love this movie. Yeah, I was like, that sounds so familiar.

She put me on in that interview. It's amazing. So I bring it up because they asked him in Rolling Stone about the album, David Roback, and he said, we have sort of a Chauncey Gardner approach to music referring to the character and being there. It's hard to translate musical ideas into words. I think the music is its own language. So Chauncey Gardner, being there's amazing because it's kind of like a proto-forced Gump where like it is that feminine surrender thing. Like Chauncey Gardner is Peter Sellers who is actually Chance the Gardner, but he like gets into like an accident somehow with Shirley Maclean's

character who's like an extremely wealthy woman and she mishears him when she's like, oh, who are you? And she's like, He's like, I'm Chance the Gardner. And she's like, Chauncey Gardner, I haven't seen you around before. And they make him into this like, this mysterious, like powerful rich guy figure.

And he doesn't really, he just kind of goes along with it because he's not really sure what's happening. And it's like, he goes with this flow and they all are just like enamored by the simple statements that he made. You know what I mean? It's so cool.

And so I'm like, oh, I get that reference. Like they were just like, as producer Dylan would call it, trawlying through life. They were just like on their trawl of law shit. I love that. It's real feminine.

Mr. Gardner, do you agree with Ben? Or do you think we can stimulate growth through temporary sense? As long as the roots are not severed, all is well. And all will be well in the garden. The fucking first song. I'm like, bitch, this wasn't the single? Like, this song floors me every time in the kingdom. I know.

And it's so happy and whimsical for them. it kind of harkens back to me to the first album where they had more songs like this that are like like Hala also has this sort of like puff the magic dragon right like sort of quality to it like it's kind of going back to that you know I love it's just lilting sad happy what's happening I don't know it's a banger yeah and it sounds like what she's talking about is just taking a train into a city to go see a band right we should so nice before our lighted and said she never goes and sees me. Yeah. Oh, the one that goes under the bridge. Could be a coincidence. Could be a callback. Yeah, it's just a really pretty song.

I love California. This one also feels like it's, I mean, it must have been written a while ago just from the like thematic concerns of it. Like, she was living in London. So like, I think I'm going back to California, you know, and she had come back a long time ago, so. Right. It's simple.

It's not really saying much. I think I'll go. Yeah. But it's beautiful. What are some other standout tracks to you on here? One I really like is Spoon because she says, I ain't no spoon. Ain't nobody going to turn me around. Okay. Is that what we do with Spoon?

Just turn them around. Spoon has Bert Jant. Jant is I. his name, the folk musician. Yeah. He died in 2011, so before this album even come out, but they were like big fans of his, and he opened for them. And I think one of their concerts, while they were on hiatus, they played for one of his

birthday parties. I don't know about him. So he seems like a very random hero of theirs. Yeah, I don't know about it either. I mean, they had very cool and exquisite taste, and I'm a simple woman. Yeah. Does someone have your baby now is really good, like lonely cow. boy's song. Yeah, totally.

That's a good one. Seasons of your day is really good, too. I love that song. Yeah. I was storming all of the day. Maybe the hardest they've ever sounded is on the last song, Flying Low, where like the last four instrumental minutes, they're just like ripping this fucking, like, sick-ass blues. Just like fucking rocking out. They love to end the album with, A vibe. Setting an entire vibe.

Yeah, I love this album. It really is like way better than it should be. Yeah. I also think of their four records, here's how it breaks down seasonally for me. Okay, gorgeous. I love this. She hangs brightly, spring, seasons of your day, summer.

So it's night that I might see fall among my swan winter. Do you feel that? Do you feel among my swan is winter? Yeah, totally. Because it's the darkest. Yeah. most witchy like we said. No, that makes so much sense. I dated a guy once who I've talked about him on this program. We called him the moon professor. Oh, what's that mean? Well, he taught people how to

harness their creativity based on the phases of the moon. He also lived his entire life based on the faces of the moon in a pretty strict way, but he was also obsessed with categorizing things by season, like everything. Okay. So that just reminded me of him. That's cool. That's cool. No, no, it was very cool. He was a very smart and interesting man. Not my forever person for a number of reasons, but I wish him well, the men professor. Like he would talk about like people's careers like that. Like he'd be like, okay, this is the fall of their career. This is just like really interesting, interesting way of seeing things. Wow. Cool. I mean, I think you're entering the summer of your podcasting career. Do you? Is it all of my annoying posting of people saying nice things about my podcast? Because I might be

manufacturing that summer myself over here. However, you got to get there. I'd like to go into the winter of my discontent where I simply, I'm not perceived and do not post on social media anymore. But I'm sure we'll get there. Yeah. Okay. Pitchfork did review this album.

Gave it a 7.8. Okay. They did say something that I didn't love, which was, but if Massey's Star have done amazingly well bringing back their initial sound and spirit. They also haven't done anything to transcend its limitations. As gorgeous as the music can be, it still tends to work best in the background, a mood or vibe to give a dim room a nice tint. I could not disagree more.

Same. Sorry former guest of the pod, Mark Richardson, but clearly you have never done woman wrought in bed as an activity. Oh, no, Mark, say it ain't so, not you. Pondering forlornly, that is an activity. Okay, that's not a background situation. We're actively pondering for lonely. But I feel like their lyrics reward such close listening.

I agree. It's not, it really isn't background music. The pitchfork review of Bavarian Fruit Bread stuck in my craw a little bit. Let me read you. We'll go back in all over the selection. This is how it starts. This is very 2001 pitchfork, mind you. But they were really in their, they were really in their bag then.

in a certain kind of way. Yeah. Okay, so Masi's Star was always a form of Hope Sandoval fetishism for me. Wow, just stay the quiet part out loud, bro. Yeah. Hearing holla for the first time as a teenager in 1990, I was immediately seduced by Sandoval's detached feminine voice and the ethereal psychedelic folk that shimmered underneath. She hangs brightly in that wafish shuntuse, where a perfect counterpoint to the masculine

posturing of grunge. I should also admit that I'd begun to grow tired of the form of. formula before Mazzy Star dissolved. Now with Sandoval going solo, but failing to veer from her same old signature sound, she seems less attractive than narcissistic. Conceit usually seems to coincide with a lack of ideas. And when the wellspring of inspiration runs dry, there's only one thing to lapse into, self-parity. And then they say the same thing again, like all of Massey Star's releases, Bavarian fruit bread, works well as a mood piece and makes good background music, but it doesn't reward close listening.

Brab. Bro. Well, we said that, you said this before we ever even recorded, which was that is this going to be the most alienatingly feminine episode yet? And like, maybe that's, maybe that's what it kind of boils down to. Like, maybe it's like, and I'm not saying, obviously, men can't hear this. And I'm maybe even speaking more in the gender archetypes. But like, is this the kind of dog whistle that if you.

don't have a relationship with the feminine, you can't hear it. I honestly think that it is. I really think that it is because otherwise I just don't understand what the fuck they're talking about. Like, no offense, like all love and respect, but does like Pearl Jam's 10 reward clothes? Is that not background music? Because the lyrics are so strikingly poignant, like when Jeremy spoke in class today or whatever or like even flow. Like, again, I love Pearl Jam, but like, what are you talking about? Yeah, it's so weird. I hope that. doesn't deter because having listened to this podcast frequently, like I know that the listenership is, excuse pretty heavily male. Sure. But fellas, if you're listening,

fellas, like, don't let this put you off because I think there's a lot you can glean from this subject that will help you in this life. It can only benefit you to get into the practice of connecting with your feminine, much like in small ways until it went too fucking crazy, it did benefit us to connect with the girl boss within or whatever, you know? Absolutely.

And for much of my life, it was great to connect with the divine masculine, if you will, or whatever masculine. You know what's interesting? Like, when I got into Massey Star, I didn't really realize that for so much of my life beforehand, for so much of my teenage years,

my taste was not only so dictated by like boyfriends and male friends and like the male powers that be but even the music that I really loved like indie rock and like underground rap and like you know the rhyme sayers and MF doom and like fucking hell yeah built to spill and modest mouse and all that good shit that I still love to this day it never struck me that this was all from such a masculine lens and a masculine aesthetic I didn't really think that deeply about things then I just liked it. But by the time I got into my 20s, I was like, holy shit. Like, I'm like so thirsty for something that's coming from a feminine perspective. And that's when I got into Massey Star and Billy Holiday and Lana, you know, and it like really filled this fucking void that I didn't even know that I had. Well, we talk about it on certain episodes, but like there did feel like there was a time were like being that deep in the feminine was like super looked down upon. It was like considered wrong and you were like you said, you're setting back feminism. It's pathetic. It's whatever the words that were used where it's like so anger is okay. Anger is which is the divine masculine.

But sadness is you know like I don't know. It's just it was an interesting feeling throughout when the wave of feminism really took a. over like in the late 90s, early 2000s into the mid-2010s, where like it was just not okay to be super in your feminine, to be, to be, what did we talk, yearning. Yeah. To be yearning for a man on Maine in your album or wherever you were doing it. Yeah.

I have faith in the men, the men listeners of bands playing the reply guys. You guys will get it. I think they will get it. And all my Gen Z college girlies, it brings me so much joy. Every time, like, a girl follows me on Instagram and her Instagram bio is, like, the year of her graduate, in the future, of her graduating college, you know what I mean? That is really cool. It's like it feeds me. Like, it gives me some more youth.

Like, it's like a bit of an elixir. I know. Like, on Twitter, Twitter is really, like, the only thing. that I actually use. And my people I follow used to be exclusively like fucking music writers, which like, no offense, but isn't like the funnest party in the fucking world. And now it's just like, now I'm trying to course correct and just be like, where are the girls with good vibes to show them to me?

Where are the hot young girls with good vibes or older girls, all the hot girls, come to my house. Yeah. That's so good. Here's a crazy thing that one of these music writers that aforementioned said, Massey Star may, this is an enemy, maybe the best band in history never to have influenced anybody. Whoa.

Excuse? Beach House, bitch, you heard of it? I know. Dumb Dumb Girls? You never heard a dumb dumb girls album? That just seemed insane. I mean, there is a lineage of Mazy Starr's children, some sort of state.

in that era, in that sort of 2010s era. Like, I mean, I know everyone loves Beach House, and I love Beach House too, but Beach House didn't exactly, like, carry the torch of their music till now, you know? Yeah. Same with Dumb Dome Girls. Yeah. And Lana did, though. Lana did. I mean, Ethel Cain, maybe nowadays. Sure.

A little flicker of the torch. But I don't know. It's weird. There's nothing that is, all of the influence is so, like, not to use the word vibes again, but it's like, it's like that thing about pornography where like you know it when you see it but you can't really describe it like it's really just a vibe more so than like oh and here's this kind of guitar and here's this kind of like I can't believe we haven't said this yet but is Massey star shoe gaze? I was thinking about this or does it have too much country element in it? I've always gone with dream pop. Dream pop. Is Jesus a Mary chain shoe gaze? I find that when it's men, it's shoegays, and when it's women, it's dream pop.

I know. I'm too dumb to make the distinction. I'm not good at genre distinctions. I think the first third I buy album is emo. So there's no accounting for my taxonomy. Usually, like, if I like it, it's dream pop. And if I don't like it so much, it's shoegays. No shade.

No shade to Mr. Colm. But I love my bloody Valentine. I guess it's hard for me to latch on to anything because I'm not like an instrument. Like I can't like pick out what an instrument is doing so much. Guitar solo, cool. Yeah, you know, so I feel like there's nothing. There's not as much to sink my teeth into or like a good access point. Yeah, but if you like to do drugs.

I'm going to tell you about a little thing called drugs. Big fan of Shugas if you're just taking it in. Sure. Just taking it in. But yeah, I'm with you. It's a little different strokes for different folks. Yeah. The quietest said, they called it Dreampop also.

Seasons of Your Day is a beautifully tender record in debt to the Southern Gothic. Yeah. I like that. Yeah, I like that too. All right. Well, I'll tell you what else happens. Yes, do they have four albums? Correct.

But there's more music. So they put this out. they put out another single just randomly in 2014. These songs are really good. Have you heard these songs? I'm less here in things? No. Okay.

Yeah, exactly. Who knew? I'm less here is really beautiful and it lyrically references among my swan. There's these lyrics that say, it's in between on the darkened hearts behind me unknown that there's no chance. He had his hand among my swan. Keep it there now that be a bomb. Oh.

Sexy. Yeah. That's hot. He has his hair Among my swan Keep it through. Then Hope contributed vocals

to a psychic ills song called I Don't Mind Which is also really good. They put out a third album Hope Sandoval and the Warm Inventions Until the Hunter in 2016 This is a good one too.

It's a really good one. Also, I really like the single that they did with Kurt Vile. Let me get there. I know. I know, which seems so wrong. I guess I've never been into Kurt Vile, so I was like, no, this is not right.

This is not right at all. But it's a pleasant little song. And like maybe also a little artistic mission statement as well as a love song. Like, okay, here's the lyrics. It was always our story, if you forgot. Everything that we say, we have to honor. And all the things we feel we have to remove. It's just the way we keep it all in the groove.

I don't think it's Kurt Vile saying groove. I don't think Hope Sandval would ever say the word groove. But I like that. It's like in case you forgot, we have the, this little honor code and we have to take some things out and keep it our own way. And that's how that's how we keep it in the group. She also has a good quote about recording that song with Kurt Fyle. And she's talking about how it was a little awkward to like go into the studio and sing this love song with him. And she says,

it was a bit weird, but we had wine, beer. There's a Mexican place with really. There's a Mexican place with really good margaritas across the street. It all worked out. I love it. She said a similar thing about recording with Jesus and Mary Jane that they just went and had wine and it was nice because it was fun. She's the wine girl. Wine comes up so much. Yeah, I can see that. It fits in with the persona. So then in 2018, they put out an EP called Still. It has four songs on it. Quiet the Winter Harbor. That way, again still and so tonight that I might see ascension version oh my god honestly really good yeah for whatever reason quiet the winter harbor has 15 million streams i can't tell you why but

whoa i know but it's a really good song yeah they're just kind of consistent and again there's no knowing they were they always said that they were for every album they wrote like for four times as much material. So there's probably like six albums more Mazzy Star music that's like sitting somewhere. So these songs were likely plucked from there. Yeah. Tons of the unreleased ones are on YouTube too, older ones too, and they're really good. I mean, fuck, do they have a bad song?

Have you heard a bad Masi Star song yet? No. Honestly, no. I'm not even gassing them up. Like, it's true. There's like probably a couple songs I'm like a little more indifferent to. Just a little. Yeah, there's some skips, but nothing that I'm like, turn this off.

Yeah, this sucks. And that's it because in 2020, David Rorbach passed away at 61. RIP, RIP legend. Yeah. But man, what a band. What a fucking band. Shout us out, Manzi Star. Hope Sandival, please don't listen to this podcast.

I don't. I don't think she's going to. And you know what? It's okay if she does. What, we were going to be friends with her. going to be friends with her. It's okay. We're not going to be friends with her. All of this is out of deep love and respect.

And you've inspired me to say less, fam, if you will. So, I do tip my hat to you. Before we wrap this up, Megan Garvey, we do need to hear from the Mazzi Star mega fans. Let's roll that gorgeous fan footage. I can still remember the exact moment. I was stopped in my tracks and enraptured by the dreamy, mystical soundscape of Mazzie Star. I remember discovering Mazzie Star in high school and thinking I was so cool because it was one of the first bands that I found by myself without being shown it by friends or some boy I thought was cute. It was in the fall of 1993 and MTV aired a live.

in-studio performance of them playing into dust on 120 minutes. It just arrested me on every level. Sonically, visually, atmospherically, emotionally. I'd never heard anything like the intoxicating dance between David's sort of desert folk finger-picked acoustic and hopes ghostly ephemeral vocals. I remember hearing fade into you for the first time when I was a teenager. and it just totally shifted something.

I immediately fell in love with their entire discography afterwards, and they're just so special. Masi Star is like crucial music for anybody who had their heartbroken, even in a fantasy in the 90s. It's the perfect music to listen to when I'm sad, but I don't feel like I'm sad enough. I'll listen to fade into you over and over again. again until I'm like in tears.

I think they often get overlooked as maybe being like a one-hit wonder because of that song. And I think that they were so much more than Fade Into You. It's a great song, but they were so much more than that. Massey Star was the kind of band that made every dopey teenager with an acoustic guitar. I think they could absolutely nail the dreamy, unfussy vibe of fade into you. But the truth is that no one could hit those chords and those strums just, Just right. No one played acoustic guitar like David Roebuck, and absolutely no one sings like Hope Sandoval. Hopes, boys, sounds like what I think, or, um, hope. I would sound like if I was in a band.

You know, you can't hear artists of today, like alternative indie artists of today, like a Mitzki or a Phoebe Bridgers or a Wiseblood, without hearing, you know, some influences of Massey Star, either in production, or voice or lyricism. And so I think they just, they get overlooked, I think, a lot when we talk about alternative rock from the 90s. They were a genuinely singular duo. And I think so tonight that I might see and among my swan are still two of the most unique and influential albums to come out of the 90s. It's the perfect thing to listen to if you're on a bus or a train, extra points if it's raining and you can just, gaze longingly outside and pretend that you're the main character in some kind of A-24 flick. One time my friend's band was opening for Hope Sandoval, and she was a huge dick to me and all my friends,

and I loved every second of it. Here's to Mazzie Starr's unique brand of Ghost Folk Forever. I just love Mazzie Star very, very much. I'm never not in the mood to listen to Mazzie Stahl. We're lucky to have them. There's our fellow sad girlies, gender non-binary term. That's just a gender inclusive term, my sad girlies. Shout out sad girlies.

Let's burn some incense tonight. Brins some incense. Stare whispery out the window. Put on your grippy socks, be taken away in a van to a place on a mountain top by the sea. Megan Garvey, this was an absolute honor and pleasure. Honestly, I had such a wonderful time talking to. You're so smart and so well spoken. And I felt extremely stupid at several instances, but I have soldiered on. Oh, gosh. I don't think I've ever talked to someone about music for this long, or really maybe talk to someone for this long ever. So it was actually really fun. It's absolutely decimating my brain and I'm not going to make it in the end. Like, no one should be talking this much for public consumption. But. again brave

braver than the troops also you guys can't see this is an audio only podcast but I just need to let you know that Megan Garvey has the most gorgeous lashes Thanks you shouldn't have

yeah that's true well come back next week for a new episode of Bandspline if you liked what you heard today subscribe for more episodes of Bansplain our guest today was Megan Garvey

You can follow her on Twitter at Megan underscore Garvey and find her on substack under scary, cool, sad goodbye. This episode was produced by Jesse Miller Gordon and edited by Adrian Bridges with help from Justin Sales. Executive producers for Bansplain are Gina Delvac and me, Yossi Salik. Huge thanks to the Masi Star Mega fans you heard on this episode, Patrick Sandberg, Will Hodge, Isabel Webster, and Melissa Peckyani. Our gorgeous and catchy theme song was composed and performed by Bethany Kosentino and Jennifer Claven and graciously recorded by Carlos Delgado in Los Angeles, California. Special thanks to our producer emeritus, producer Dylan, aka Dylan Dupper Rupert, and also Casey Simonsonson, Michael Hardman, Robert Adler, Leah Edwards, David McDonough, Dana Meyerson, Jessica Hopper,

and Goat Chalostrum. Come back every Thursday for a new episode of Bandsplain on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. Just removing my hoop earrings as I've a few. they will jingle jingle into the pod, which I know is a nice ASMR for some people.