Bandsplain - MF DOOM with Open Mike Eagle

Episode Date: February 18, 2021

In tribute to the late MF DOOM, Yasi is joined by rapper, comedian, and podcaster Open Mike Eagle to explore the fantastical world of perhaps the most influential underground rapper of all time. You can follow Open Mike Eagle on Twitter at @Mike_Eagle and listen to him on Spotify. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's with this band anyway? I don't get it. Can you please explain? Wait, like, Bansplaine? Welcome to Bansplane. I'm your host, Yossi Salic. This is a show where we demystify cult artists one song at a time, with the help of an expert guest who is a mega fan themselves. Today, we're going to talk about the rapper best known as MF Doom. I know what MF Doom sounds like because I was the music editor of a graffiti,

Lifestyle magazine in the early 2000s. But if you don't, here's what MF Doom sounds like. I'm joined today by Open Mike Eagle, who just like me is a hip-hop artist and comedian. Welcome, Mike. Hey, how's it going? You sound very professional. Suddenly. It was kind of jarring. I put on my NPR voice. See, I wasn't warned. You were like, I don't know about this girl. And then here I am. snapped to action. Yeah, that's a heck of on switch. Well, we're here today to talk about MF Doom. Yes, we are.

For the person who doesn't know how to use Google, can you just give a real brief biographical synopsis of who MF Doom was? Well, MF Doom is a very interesting character within hip-hop. His first work as MF Doom surfaced around 1919. on this little label out of New York called Fondolum Records. Shout out Bobito. Shout out Bobito for sure. But this was not his initial foray into music.

He had existed previously as Zev Love X, who was part of the rap group, KMD, who was part of like this wave of, you know, New York conscious boom, bab, hip hop that would have included De La La Soe, Tribe Car Quest, that sort of ilk. they put out an album called Mr. Hood, which is moderately successful. In recording the second album, they get a little bit more militant, and they start recording an album called Black Bastards. And while they're making this album, the group which consists of Zevlov X and his brother, Subrock, Subrock is hit by a car and killed. and in trying to maintain and uphold the legacy of the group and in sub-rock's honor,

Zev Love X goes on to finish the album and turns it into a lecture with a cover of like a Sambo character from American history where black people were caricatured with big eyes and big lips, and I believe he was being hung. Now the message of this is that they were not Sambo's and they were anti-Sambo. A lecture, however, saw this as just incendiary and possibly offensive. So it ended up shelving the album. So reeling from the loss of his brother and the shelving of the project that he had worked so hard on, he kind of spiraled out of control. I don't know exactly what he was doing for a couple of years, but it seemed to involve a lot of drinking, a lot of smoking weed, maybe other drugs.

and really just kind of being a recluse and in hiding. Yeah, I mean, that's a really good and thorough synopsis. And we're going to probably zoom into all of those various aspects that you brought up. I think obviously we should mention that sadly the news was revealed on December 31st of 2020 that MF Doom, Daniel Dumley, had passed away actually on Halloween of 2020. So, you know, it's a very sad and untimely passing. And we even more wanted to do this episode, which was already on the books, to memorialize a really important visionary artist.

So thank you for coming on to help us do that. For sure, for sure. A sad, sad bit of news indeed. But it has given many of us who love his work a lot more opportunity to explore it and tell the world about it, you know, to memorialize it. realize, man, it was very important in hip-hop. Mike, also, can we talk real quick about, like, the very first thing that put Zevlovakx, aka MF Doom on the map, which was his appearance on the third bass song?

So, and this was my first introduction to MF, to Zevlovx, I'm sorry, as well, was his appearance on third base, the gas face. The song, Gas Face had a video that was very impacted. on me and it was in high rotation on BET's Rap City and YoMTV Raps at the time, featuring third base who was a white hip-hop duo in the early 90s. MC Search and Pete Nice. And the song was produced by Prince Paul of De La Sol and Stets of Sonic fame at the time and featured Prince Paul collaborator Don Newkirk announcing everybody radio style as they entered the record

and dropped their verse. And this was the first high-profile appearance of Zev Love X, who just kills this song. And the song called The Gas Face is, it's describing a face that you are meant to give to people you do not like or do not approve of or that disgust you. When somebody disgusts you, you give them the gas face. And I'm going to do it. And there's a sound to go with it. You're going to have to do theater of the mind if you're listening. But it's like this.

That's the gas face. Why don't we hear a clip of the gas face, specifically the Zev Love X part? A special appearance by KMD's Zev Love X. A gas face can either be a smile or a smirk when a pair of monkey wants to work with me, you're empty. You know, that song is partly famous for inciting a beef between third base and MC Hammer. At one point in the song, they list people who get the gas face. And they emphatically said, hammer. Hammer gets the gas face.

I totally remember this video. Gilbert Godfried is in this video. Playing the like weasel. I think it's actually called Weasel records in the video. Wow. The label guy. But yeah, like this is to your point what got the attention of Dante and Elektra and how KMD got signed. And so now we are at the point.

part where Black Bastards has not come out. Right. And he's in a very dark place. And no one hears from him for a while. And he eventually, to my knowledge, starts surfacing at open mics in New York, I think around 96, with like panty holes over his head, obscuring his face. And he's doom. And this is all happening in New York.

And he's starting to perform songs and make songs. And Bobito ends up putting out these first few singles that he's made. He's putting them out as 12 inches on Fondolin Records, which is his label. And that's how I first hear about it. When I'm in Chicago in 97, listening to the college hip-hop station, that was my main line into all the underground music that was like the center of my world at the time. And those singles, I believe it's dead bent, screenbacks, I believe it's hay, gas draws, there may be one or two others. Those come to form the basis of his first album, Operation

Doomsday. I remember this album real well. I mean, at the time, I was in high school. I found her on the internet. But what's a track off Operation Doomsday that you think is like, really like speaks to like, okay, his rap style has changed. He's taken on this new persona. He clearly has like got a bunch of confidence and like has really solidified his style. That makes me think of probably the most impactful song on Operation Doomsday in terms of this was one that opened a lot of people's eyes to Doomsday. And I would say that is the song, Hey, in which he samples the Scooby-Doo soundtrack and samples the gangs of the characters on Scooby-Doo saying, hey, which I believe is part of the theme music. And he makes a beat out of that, which is incredible, and just bars out for the whole song.

Yeah, so that was Hey, Operation Doomsday, which is something that blew my entire head off of my shoulders when I first. heard it. What really struck you about it as like, you know, you're a young dude living in Chicago. And like, what was the, what was so interesting about it to you? First, it's the, it's the brazenness to choose that sample. Because I think that, you know, we, we were fully in the litigation phase of hip hop by that point to where de la Soe had had their big lawsuit, Bismarkey had his big lawsuit, and people knew it was open season to go after rappers who were sampling, uh, you know, recognizable stuff. And labels were like, don't do that because we don't want to pay.

And I think it's fully emblematic of his persona that for him, none of that mattered. None of it mattered. Like what mattered to him was finding the best loop, putting his drums on it, and him rhyming and making the song he wants to make litigation be damned. So for me to hear how bold of a choice that was, and to put it on the hour, This wasn't like just some white label, you know, mixtape thing that was floating around that he could have had a legal loophole or something. No, he put this on his album that he was charging money for and didn't ask anyone associated with Hannah Barbera or otherwise whether or not it was okay if he did that. And I think that's, it just so fully speaks to his attitude in terms of the creation of hip hop and the style that he chose to approach that with.

A lot of like these elements are, you know, pointing to like who he was and what he was so into. You know, he was so into comic books. He was so into cartoons. You know, he modeled his whole persona after like you said, Dr. Doom. And, you know, there's a, there's a many, many samplings of cartoons and kind of comic book come to life films or TV shows. And also just in general, a lot of skits. which I think that was, you know, popular in hip-hop at the time for sure and still is in a lot of circles. But his skits were very different. Absolutely. I mean, a lot of times they were literally cut from 60s cartoons, like the Fantastic Four cartoon. He would just cut that and make a conversation about it where it could take Fantastic Four characters talking about Dr. Dunwin, making it sound like they were talking about him.

or even the origin story from the cartoon version. He took that and put it in front of a song on Operation Doomsday that kind of serves as one perspective of that song could be that it's part of his origin story as well, the song questioned with Curious. That's a really, I think, important song for us to talk about and I think we should hear it because that song is also speaking really directly

to the death of his brother. And honestly, that is exactly why. I thought it was important as well. There's a few songs throughout his career where he really takes a moment to speak to the impact of losing his brother and how much he's still dealing with that. And question is a song that I think it has a real energy to it as a hip-hop song,

but there's also a sadness to it that's inherent in the music that makes the beat and him going back and forth with curious where there's a moment where they both talk about having lost. somebody close to them and that being part of the reason why they do this. So this is the song Question from Operation Doomsday. So yeah, that's question from Operation Doomsday featuring Curious. Yeah, I mean, to your point earlier, it's a, it's a sad song. Like it's a, the vibe of the music

is sad and the words are sad. It's also just really interesting, like, and I know this has been said a hundred times, but it's worth repeating. Every villain has like a sad. story, right? That's how they become a villain, you know? And this is for MF. Doom, you know, this is his origin story. This is the tragedy that, you know, I think in his formulation of his persona is like the tragedy behind what made the villain. Yeah, I agree. And again, that's why I think it's so poignant that he used the silly origin story from the Fantastic Four cartoon. He uses that as a skit to set it up. And he talks about it. about, you know, him rebuilding himself after tragedy.

And the last thing to fits was the mask. And then the song starts. It's just really dope. It's really something. Yeah. It's really something. And it was, I think, you know, again, I don't really remember because I was not in the scene then. But it was like fairly well received.

Oh, the album was incredibly well received. I'm sure it exceeded the expectations of anybody involved with it. I'm certain of that. And I don't think that even when Doom was making these songs. that he would have expected them to have the appeal that they had. Totally. Mike, can you talk about, I think this also ties in to the kind of fan that gravitated towards underground rap and particularly towards Doom, I think had a lot to do with the comic book imagery and the cartoon references.

Like, do you think that those specific aspects drew in a time? type of fan? I do think that Doom was unique in his embrace of whimsy. I think that, you know, we can talk about a lot of ways in which his music was similar to other people's at the time, but if you look at something that really sets him apart, it was that he was a black man doing rap music in that era, very high level of rap music, who was not afraid to announce and him embrace his love of nerdy things as well. I do think that was something to set him apart. Yeah, and I think Drew in a fan base that shared the same loves.

Fun fact, I got to interview MF Doom when, it was after Operation Doom's Day. It must have been for food because it was like I want to, it was definitely at the top of 2004. and we played Grand Theft Auto and drank straight gray goose on ice. That's what he liked to drink. And he was so into video games, but also so respectful, which, like, I was 21 years old and not, I'll be honest, not expecting it. I was like, okay, how's this going to go? And he was just, like, not creepy, just so, so cool.

And he let me wear the mask, no big deal. Whoa. Okay. Did it stink? It did, yeah. I don't think it was being cleaned. You know, one of my favorite things Doom does is he'll talk about stuff like that in his rhymes. He'll talk about how his mask smells. Yeah, totally.

And even on Operation Doomsday, there's like that running joke between him and Bobito, like, clowning each other for like their receding hairlines. Hairline.com. Yeah, it's so good. You're right. A lot of jokes, you know, a lot of inside jokes and I think outside jokes. as well. Yeah, a lot of levity, which if you look at the era, you know, there wasn't a lot of that. This was a very keep it real era. It was a very macho era. Even in the underground when you didn't have to be, a lot of that posturing was very present. That's why I thought it was so important that he

was like cool with being a weirdo. Yeah, 100%. Almost like, I mean, you might, you could even say it was a bit escapist, right? Absolutely. It's not like he didn't live the exact same reality. as, you know, the other rappers putting out music at the time, especially in New York City that was a little grittier, you know, but he chose to rap about other things. I got good friends that tell me stories about Doom where he like literally would pull razors on them all the time and not like not to hurt them, but to keep them it ready.

Even while he was doing all of this nerdy, wordplay, comic book, rap shit. Like he still was very in the streets. he still had a lot. He has a lot of bars about selling drugs. He has a lot of bars about, you know, using drugs and drinking and fighting and scamming people. Like a lot of that is in his world too. But like you say, there is this layer of escapism

that I think starts with his love of comic books and cartoons as a child and always like always embracing the stimulation of his imagination. Totally. Mike, can you actually think of an example of like some of the bars that are about the grittier stuff just so we could play a clip here. Well, I mean, you know, he has in the song, that's, is it that's, no, it's gazillion ear in gazillion ear. He talks about once sold an inbred skinhead, a nigger joke and a brand new chrome

smoker with the triggers broke. I thought him told him firing pins was separate. Find out later when he tries to go and rep it. So he talks about, because he identifies it being a villain. So he talks about being the guy who would sell a racist a gun, like knowingly do that, but he would sell it to him in a way that he knew the gun would misfire. But like he was that deep into street life that he knew how to do something like that. Even if he was just imagining a story, it's hard to put together bars like that if you've never handled a gun.

And would you agree like it wasn't mutually exclusive? It's not like he made gritty songs and then nerdy songs. It's just like coexisted in all of the songs. It could be bar for bar. Yeah. Like in one bar it could be, you know, something completely fantastical and unreal. And the other thing, it could be, you know, about how much he spent on raw cocaine to package it up and sell it. He did love to party.

So there's like five years between operations. Operation Doomsday and food. Yeah. But there's projects in between that time. Yeah. Let's talk about it.

Because, you know, Doom itself was an alter ego of Sevlovax. But then the alter ego had also egos. The first one it comes to mind, because I don't know the exact order, but the first one it comes to mind

is Victor Vaughn. Sure. Who is whereas Doom is like, a middle-aged scammer slash rap impresario. I don't know. Victor Vaughn is like a young punk. Right.

Victor Vaughn is a young rapping drug dealer, basically, and who works for Doom or works under Doom and is like constantly scheming for his position. The song, Fancy Clown on Mad Villain, which a lot of people are aware of, is actually a Victor Vaughn song where Victor is mad that his girl has cheated on him

with MF Doom. He said, that's you if you want a dude who wear a mask all day. Because Victor Vaughn doesn't wear a mask. And if you looked at any of the Victor Vaughn videos, I believe he's in sunglasses, but he's not wearing a mask. And there might have been only two

videos, definitely one. But he was approaching that project with a completely different visual style. And I think that maybe he intended a completely different rap style as well. But I think when it ended up happening in that process,

because he really barred out on that Victor Vaughn album. He really barred out where like the MF Doom rhymes, especially around that Operation Doomsday era, like some of them sounded like they were written and recorded while he was drunk. Like, very sloppy

to the point where I couldn't tell if it was on purpose or that was genuinely his state of mind. Victor Vaughn rhymes are very precise. The rhymes get tighter. The writing gets tighter. The delivery gets tighter. Why don't we hear a song off of vaudeville villain? One of my favorite songs from Vaudeville Villan is Ray Don, which is named after Ray Don Chong, who is Tommy Chong's daughter.

And if I'm not mistaken in it, he's having a drug trip. Because I think at one point a sewer lady instead of having a conversation with him in this song. But this is Radon from the vaudeville villain. That was Raydon from the vaudeville villain from M.F. Doom's a Victor Vaughn persona. That's so good. So also, okay, and I'm not sure because I'm not Wikipedia,

but I think speaking of other alter egos, King Ghedra came out this same year as Victor Vaughn might have been even before. So he put out both these albums, albums in the same year. Two completely different approaches, too. He didn't produce Victor Vaughn. I forget who commissioned the album, the label, but they put him with some beatmakers.

He has a king honey and a heat sensor. And I think there's even an RJD2. There is an RGD2. Saliva's RGD2, yep. And then on the other side of that, see, now we've got to talk about the Monster Island Zars. We obviously do. We do. Why else are we here?

I don't, you know, I don't see any other good reason. But when he reemerges his MF Doom, he has been working with some people that, you know, his activity with him goes back to that KMD's second album. So one of the people he starts rocking with is MF Grimm. And him and MF Grimm start this collective, this crew called the Monster Island Zars in which they all take on names from the Godzilla franchise. I don't think that any of them is Godzilla, but I think they're all Godzilla's enemies and rivals. So MF Doom takes on the persona of King Gidra, who's like a flying three-headed alien dragon monster. Of course. I think MF. Grimm becomes Megalon, if I'm not mistaken.

There's, which one was the turtle one? Do you remember who the turtle one was? Oh, no, sir. Geegan, Geegan. One of them was Geegan. But they all took on Monster Island names and they called themselves the Monster Island Zars, which was the acronym was M-I-C because everything was always very literal in that era of underground hip-hop. So as King Gehira, he makes this album. Is it called Take Me to Your Leader? Is that what the album is called? I believe it is called Take Me to Your Leader. And he does some of his seminal hymn rap. rapping over his own beats work.

And he also produces a few songs for other people in the Monster Island Zars crew on that album. Take me to your leader. Not that anyone cares, but this is my second favorite MF Doom project. It's really amazing. It's really fucking good. I was listening to it again recently. Even though I haven't, I realized I hadn't really picked it up for years. But then I was like, oh, this is still just as fucking good as it was the first time I heard it.

Yeah, there's two songs. in here to stay in rotation for me. Which are? Phasers. Yes. The very first song on there. And then the fine print. And then, no, there's two more, but those aren't with him rapping on them.

Why don't we hear phasers? Let's hear phasers. Let's hear phasers from King Gehedrus, take me to your leader. These songs, they're bullets aimed right at my heart. I'm really glad we played this song. Number one, because the Sousu Studio line is my favorite. but number two, because there's some lyrics here that I think really speak to one of, if not the main motivation, I think, for MFJuman making music, which is money.

Yep. I mean, you know, half up front, half upon mastering. Would you like that in cash? The last thing you should ask the king. Because there, it's, I don't think it's up for debate that part of the reason that he was so prolific was because he wanted to make money. And the more music he made, the more money he made. He was a rap mercenary for sure.

Like he would do, he would be commissioned to do projects and would do them to get the money. And that's why he said half up front, half upon mastering. Because if you give him the whole thing up front, he's probably not going to do it because he's no longer motivated because he already has the money. I mean, can you blame him? Capitalism. Can I give you a really, really fun fact about that song? A one million percent. You may.

And you should. Have you ever heard where he got that sample from? No. Him and his homie were watching a porno. Of course. And that was the music from the porno and they looped it up. I mean, dare I say iconic. Yeah, I think so.

I think there's no other word, really. Who else samples porno? Not pornoes. I'm sure a lot of people actually have sampled pornoes, but the music, the scoring, if you will. And it seems like, you know, that's where you'd want to go if you're sampling. They're not going to come after you. They don't care. Totally. I don't think they have people out there.

Scouring, exactly. Coming the underground rap records to see if their commissioned porn score has been sampled. Okay, now we're getting to my favorite part. Which, and we usually start off the show with like what I would have asked you, what do you think is the most recognizable MF Doom Song? But I think, A, because he wasn't a major label, radio artist, like that's, a little bit less relevant here, but I would make the argument that mad villainy is the most known MF Doom Project.

Do you agree? I do. I think that's true too. And within that, though, if I had to think of a song that embodied the project, like... Yeah, we're going to argue here, I think. Go on. Well, the thing for me is I, there's a song that I think is the most known song on here, but I have no way to be sure. Like, you know, there's Spotify plays and there's metrics you can see that way.

But I think that the song is most known as all caps. And the reason why I think the sound is most known as all caps is because there is no comment, internet comment I see associated with doom more than all caps when you spell the man name. Right. Totally. And now a lot of people will come for you if you do not use all caps. Because I'm not, I'm not, I don't use. I don't, I'm not, I don't these caps at all. So like, so I do, when I'm writing his name, I have to like take that extra step. And part of the reason why is I don't want to hear it from people. I definitely don't want to hear it from 26 year olds who just found MF. Jim through like pigeons and planes. That's who I don't want to hear it from. Shots fired. Just saying. Yeah, I mean,

all caps. I think, why don't we hear all caps off bad melody and then we can talk more about why this record is so important. That was all caps from the album Mad Villany. I mean, the sample. Iconic. Yeah, it's amazing. That song's amazing. Okay.

Mad villain. Now what? Oh, man. Me, mad villain's a big deal. See, if you look at Mad Villain in, I think 2004, I got to say for me, Mmm food is a little bit more important to me personal than Madreland. Because I prefer Doom over his own beats at the end of the day.

Got it. You're a purest. That's the Doom I love. Like the Doom I love is Doom locked in a basement, chopping up records, putting his dirty drums over him, rapping, barely mixing it, putting skits on it and putting it out. Like, that's my favorite Doom. Like, that's the pure raw, uncut cocaine doom for me. There's also like no clearer evidence that he was, as you said, a rap mercenary, because all these albums came out on different labels.

So like, M. Food came out on Rhymesayers. And I want to say that it was well after, not well after, it's in the same year, but I think Madd Villany came, comes out in March and then MFood comes out on Rhymesayers in like November of 2004. Kind of interesting that it came out on Rhymesayers, don't you think? Yeah, I do too. But, you know, Rhym Sayers was a, is a Minneapolis-based. label that had mostly been known for artists local to that area.

You wouldn't have expected a New York underground rapper to put out an album on their label, but you also wouldn't have expected to put out one on Stone's Throw. You know, he was that guy. He showed all of us that like, we didn't have to play that game, you know, where you signed to some independent label and suddenly you're just flying that flag and you can't do anything for anybody else. And that's also part of the reason he had different moniker. because they gave him the freedom to go through other projects, other places. So, okay, let's talk more about food.

This is a concept album. Would we say it's a concept album? I mean, in that all of the titles have been twisted in some sense to reference food, yes. And the skits are all about eating in some form of fashion. But I don't really think its concept goes much deeper than that. I mean, every MFDM album is a concept album if we're being honest. That's true. He's a concept artist.

Like, he exists as a concept. What song off MFood do you think is like your favorite or the best example of like MF Doom producing MF Doom at the top of his game? Okay. So what we have to talk about now is the legal implications of Doom being a person who doesn't care about what he samples. Sure. Because it was going to catch up with him eventually. And it caught up with him a lot. And it caught up with every label he ever worked with if he gave them something that he produced.

And they would have to go to court because he wouldn't go. So there's an album on this, there's a song on this album called Cookies. With a K. With a K. And the song is largely about masturbation. But what's interesting about the song is the original version was, him rapping over a loop made from the old ending theme to Sesame Street. He looped up the old disco break that used to end Sesame Street.

And who amongst us didn't first masturbate to Sesame Street? You know, I thought it was just me. But again, Doom teaches you, you're not alone. You know, you're not alone. I'm sorry, Dad. But yeah, so we couldn't play. that one, but I do think another one in terms of him, this would take a couple of boxes

for us, him producing himself and rapping over a dope chade loop, which also clearly he didn't ask for, asked permission for, there's also a really dope and heartfelt section that references the loss of his brother on this song.

Concarne from M Food. That is Concarne from M Food. And there it is. I dedicate this mix to subrock the hip hop Hendricks. And as a person who has edited many a rap song in my life, another thing that's always interested me about that song is if you listen really closely, it sounds like he cuts it before he's about to say more stuff.

Oh, wow. That to me is infinitely interesting. Wow, like you wish you could know. Of course. Of course. Yeah, totally. Because then it might be another thing like question, that other song where there's like this whole extended thing of, you know, and I don't know, I would love to be able to hear all of that

kind of stuff. Totally. Okay, Mike, we've talked so much about all these different seminal tracks and albums from MF. Doom. And, you know, I think it's safe to say this is your all-time favorite rapper. 100%. Can you give me, and I know this is probably going to be hard, because I honestly couldn't do it if you put it into my head about my favorite artist. But like, what is it about MF Doom that makes him, like the top artist in your mind? Because I think he might be the most, you know, the clearest example of somebody who made a music career off of being an MC. Being an MC, not a songmaker, a songwriter, a pop artist, an MC, a man who's crafted was

to think of punchlines and rhyming words and make them. interesting. And that was what he cared about. And to be able to make a whole career and legacy off of that, like that's, that's, that's like, that's my, my spiritual role model forever. That's beautiful. I love that. For me personally, I love the Zingue one liners. Um, as a failed comedian, they just really speak to me. We, we also talk to a bunch of other MF Jim super fans to see what they loved about MFJM's music. Let's hear from them. So for me, Doom, like any good art, helps you understand yourself.

The complex lyrics, so intricate, so clever. Joyful, it's fun, it's loose. It was also sad in some parts, but also hilarious. I loved him as a rapper and a producer equally. I think the way he would chop up those samples, the way he would find samples and just flip it. him differently than most producers would. You know, it also seemed that if you were a fan of Doom, you were kind of part of a club.

Maybe even more fascinating was his life outside of being a rapper because so much of his life, especially for the last 10 years, we don't know about. When he died, it was really tragic and sad because it felt like a friend was gone. His loss has been devastating and definitely felt around the world and throughout the hip-hop universe. I just, you know, thankful for the gifts that he loved. left with us and that I will continue to just enjoy for as long as I'm around. There's so much music to still listen to and explore and, you know, honestly, there's no one better.

You know, we have his music to hold on to forever. I will miss him. I love him. RIP Dume. I guess, like, I'm really struck by, like, two things that, like, jumped out at me from that was, like, one was, like, the, I don't want to say accessibility, but just how many fans felt like doom was like really similar to them. You know, they felt like they could relate on a level that maybe in some ways like other rappers or other hip hop music was not in the same way accessible to

them. And also just like that he was so clearly a visionary like ahead of his time, you know, doing things that no one else was doing. And the loss of someone who was like sort of like inventing the future as they went is really profound. That's really something. And, you know, I'll almost take that one further and say it's not even so so much ahead of his time. Like, he's doing stuff that you, like, you can't, you can't follow. Like, you, like, no one, you can't wear a mask now. You can't do it, you know?

Like, that's been done now. And nobody, like, it'll have to, it'll be 50 years before somebody else can wear a mask. And it's such a great idea for so many reasons. Because he is now like, even as, you know, he's passed away, his iconography is going to live forever. Like, everybody's going to know what that mask means. 100%. You know?

And you can't, you can't, as wonderful and as powerful as an idea that is, nobody else can do it now. Is there another album that you think? is really important and like kind of worth including in this, for lack of a better word, a starter pack. I do think we should touch Zarface meets Metal Face, his collaboration with the group Zar face, which is esoteric and Inspector Deck from the Woutang, his collaboration with them, which I also happen to be on.

Oh, I did notice your name in the Wikipedia. You don't have to recuse yourself. You can just talk about it. Tell us about this record. Like, how did it come about? Why is it important? Well, Zarface is another, like, hip-hop second act, much in the way that, you know,

Zev Love X becomes MF Doom. Inspecta Debt post, you know, Wutang Peak. And Esoteric is from an old backpack group called Seven L and Esoteric. They form a group called Zharface. And the Zar Face is an actual, like, robotic kind of supervise. and this monster similar to MF Doom. So there was already a lot of common ground there. And I don't know if it was their second or third album.

They collaborated with MF Doom to do an entire project. And I think it's important because we hadn't heard from Doom in a while before this. Yeah, because this came out in 2018. Yeah. And I think that we were all, you know, in the Doom fandom, very happy to hear that he was still in great rap shape. you know, like he was still killing it all over this album, like really giving us like the Doom, you know, word play and energy that we had been fiend for.

And yeah, man, extra feather in my cap, because I actually happened, you know, I got a chance to rock with him on a joint on this album. Did you get to actually record with him? Nope. Okay, that's all right. I don't know what song you want to hear, but I want to hear the one that you're on.

Let's do that one then. Okay. What's it called? The song's called Phantoms. Off his face meets metal face. Okay, go off, Mike. Hey, man, you know, when you get on a rap song with your heroes, you got to try your best. I would pass away, so kudos to you for even being able to talk.

I did survive all those emails. It was hard. Okay, well, we've reached the end of our show. No! I know. I'm sorry. We can stay here just off mic and talk forever about enough. Let's plan to do that.

It's been a really amazing conversation. Thank you so much. Yeah, for sure. I want to leave our listeners. You know, maybe people have just now been introduced to MF Doom and they want to continue their journey or people that, you know, have been long time fans and just are listening to this like us to have a bit of nostalgia and a bit of memorialization. What's a good last song to go out on? You know, for me, the essential MF Doom music is him rapping over his own beats, no hook, just going off. And I think one of the last essential examples that he gave of him doing that is a song called That's That off a born like this. I think it's to me, and especially because it's one of the later songs on that album and it's him rapping over one of the,

the special herbs instrumentals that he made popular and have always been present during his career and him just going off. And to me, it's like the final form of the songmaking approach to start with Operation Doomsday. I think it's just a fantastic and potent example of that. Awesome. Well, thank you again, Mike. And let's hear that's that. If you like what you heard today, subscribe to Bansplaine for more episodes, only on Spotify.

Massive thanks to open Mike Eagle for enlightening us on MF Doom. Follow him on Twitter at Mike underscore Eagle. Bansplaine is a Spotify original series produced in partnership with Spoke Media. This episode was produced and edited by Cody Hoffmuckle with help from Sherita Lynn Solis and Dylan Rupert. Mixing in sound design by Will Short. Our executive producers for Spoke Media are Aaliyah Tevacolean, Keith Rennon, Reynolds and Jean-Ele Cassiner. Our executive producers for Spotify are Liz Gately, Gina Delvac, and me, Yossi Selig.

Our catchy and gorgeous theme song was composed and performed by Bethany Cozentino and Jennifer Claven and graciously recorded by Carlos Delagarza. Thank you to our MF Doom fans for providing their voices for this episode. Shout out Andrew Barber, Frederick Wells, Cyrus Gangress, and Tony DePietro. Special thanks to Felipe Guillermo, Leah Edwards, Theta, Dana Myrero, and the frame drawing of Dave Matthews I got on Deepop, whose spirit guides this entire show.