Bandsplain - Perfect Song: "Iris" by the Goo Goo Dolls With Whitmer Thomas

Episode Date: September 3, 2026

Whitmer Thomas ('Terminal Crew of Dudes,' 'Weapons') joins Yasi to break down "Iris," the Goo Goo Dolls hit that became one of the defining songs of the late ’90s. They discuss the song’s origins on the 'City of Angels' soundtrack, the band’s punk beginnings, John Rzeznik’s singular and deeply inspiring (to Whitmer) hairstyle, and that iconic, rain-drenched performance of "Iris" in their hometown of Buffalo that somehow made a perfect song even more perfect. Subscribe on YouTube CREDITS: Host: Yasi Salek @yasisalek Guest: Whitmer Thomas @whitmerthomas Producer: Rob Sundermann  Editor: Adrian Bridges Additional Production Supervision: Justin Sayles Theme Song: Bethany Cosentino Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca.ca. band anyway. I don't get it. Can you please explain? Wait, like, Bansplain?

Hello and welcome to Bansplain. I am your host, Yossi Solic. This is usually a show where I invite an expert guest on to help me explain a cult band or iconic artist. Today's show is a little different. Today's episode is about one perfect song and my guest is a celebrity. The song is Iris by the Gougu Dolls and the celebrity is Whitmer Thomas and Ellen. L.A. based comedian and musician who just put out his second comedy special for HBO. You guys heard of at the Home Box Office. It is called Terminal Crew of Dudes. Welcome to the show, Witt. Thank you, Yassie. Is it okay if I call you Witt? I'd prefer that. I've tried to professionally change my name to Witt, and it's a no-go, but... I'm really into Whitmer because I don't know

any other soul on this earth with that name. Do you know other people with that name? Is that a common Alabama name? Oh, you're a second. Not quite. My name is Whitmer. Alexander Thomas and his name is Whitmer A. Thomas. They didn't bother to... Just they. Yeah, so... Okay. But it's hard. It's hard. It's hard. People panic every time they try to say it. Whitmer? My name is Yossaman. Yeah, but... I guess that's... We both had it rough in a different, in a different way. This episode is brought to you by Sierra Nevada Hazy Little Thing. If you saw the band when they played at the bar or stopped mid-festable to look at the stars, then you're ready to to embrace the haze with hazy little thing.

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Well, I wanted to like, you know. Me and Yossi are friends. If nobody, people listening might not know that. And she puts a lot of work into this. So it means a lot to me as her friend that people listen to this. Let's just get it out of the way. We'll get it out of the way right now. I used to do stand-up comedy.

Okay, I'm not proud of it. I'm actually deeply ashamed of it. But that's how I got to meet a lot of wonderful people, such as my friend Whit Thomas over here. Well, thank you. My dad, she had a great show, and she was a great stand-up. And one time I brought my dad to one of her shows. And afterwards, he said, That was so funny.

And I think it's so funny how all of these women talk about shaving their pussy. That's literally my comedy was about my bush. And then I get to go meet Witt's dad. And he's like, I loved that. And I was like, so great. Fab. Fabulous. But you're very funny and you're still doing it.

So I think that's wonderful. Thank you. And doing it clearly to a very high level. Thank you. One thing that is not about terminal crew of dudes, but about the golden one. How's your cousin? I became a little more. I'd seen Golden One when it came out, but then the rewatch, I became really fixated on your cousin and the glasses on the back of his neck.

And there was a deer in his house wearing a hat. And just like everything about him was very mesmerizing to me. I just wanted to know how he is. He's great. He just won a Marlon fishing competition. Hell yeah. And he's just living his best life down there. He's got a beautiful son.

Shout out Wilkes and Steele. I don't think they're going to listen to it. Those are really good names. Yeah, Wilkes Hammock. Look them up. Yeah. Like a... Yeah.

Speled the same. Watch his fishing videos set to Creed songs. It's just a great guy. Love him to death. This is fabulous. For those of you that don't know, is from Northern Alabama? Yeah.

Gulf Shores, Alabama. Floribama line. Terminal crew of dudes was really good, I got to say. Normally I don't enjoy musical comedy. I'll be honest with you. You're four friends. But yours was really funny Thank you

And I loved the celebration of friendship It was a real dude's rock Situation I really liked your friend Jeremy Who wore the sunglasses in the hood the whole time Who did not want to be perceived You didn't want to be part of it at all You made him

Yeah I made him and my brother be a part of it Your brother seemed like he was like Having a ball though Well you know he was supposed to say stuff And sing stuff with me And the day of he was like get the microphone away for me. I don't want to say anything and I don't want to sing. I'm too

nervous. Why do you think you're the one in your family that was, well, I guess it's because for your mom, right? Like you're the, you have the performer in DNA because your mom was a musician and a performer. Definitely. I mean, my brother's in a great band called Rufus McBlack. Hell yeah. But it's a different genre of music. It's really heavy. And I think he can hide behind a bit of that wall of sound. Yeah. And so that's probably why. he was a little shy. But I think we just grew up watching our mom play all the time. And we didn't really have a choice.

Like my brother was a pretty naturally kind of gifted guitar player right out the gate. And then my mom bought me a bass when I was nine or ten. And my brother taught me Pennywise songs and Blinkinay 2 songs. Yeah. So. And then we're here. Do you remember power violence? Yeah.

Was that what was it called? Yeah. We had a show called Power Violence at Satellite. Yeah. Is that what it's called now? No, it's gone now. But it was... It was called the Saturn.

Okay. No, it was called... It was called Space Land. It was called Space Land. Then it became the satellite. Yeah. And now it's gone. And you and Bud...

And Clay... And Clay played music and did comedy and had other people come do comedy. Yeah. And I feel like I saw your Blink Oney to cover band there once. Oh, with Mark? With Mark. That was the best night of my life. Yeah, I could tell it was the best night.

It was a really good night of my life, too, and I wasn't even on stage. Yeah. And for the backstory there is that I used to do a joke about Blink, and Mark saw it somehow. And, like, on Twitter or something, like a video, or maybe there was an article about it. And then he reached out and thought it was funny. And our friend Jonah Ray and him were like, well, it would be funny to interrupt the show and actually play the song. And we did. That's so cool.

It was Miss You. We played Miss You. we've had a good run. Yeah. And it's only just going, going off right now. You want to talk a little bit about your music and then we can get into the iris of it all? Because you actually make music earnestly, right, as well? Yeah.

Like you put out an EP. Yeah, I've put out of earnest music definitely. I mean, now I don't ever want to write another comedy song in my life. No, you're done. It's too hard. Leave it to him. Leave it to him. Leave it to him.

The market, yeah. Yeah, it's too hard. I don't know how to write a broad. enough song. That's the same thing with my stand-up. I cannot do an observational joke. I just simply don't know how. Yours are just about jacking off with your mom.

Exactly. So if I post that, then people are like, who's his mom? Or if like, well, I'm in the thick of it right now because HBO's like, what's, we're trying to figure out what jokes to clip out, but you keep mentioning your friends' names and stuff. It's like a saves the day song. You know, saves the day that he'll be like, And I said Dave.

And I was a kid, I was like, who's Dave? I can't get into this world. But yeah, I don't want to write another comedy song. It's just simply too hard. Just regular songs. Your last EP was produced by J-SOM in this house. We Love J-Som. The best.

Pretty sick. She's incredible, so talented. So check out Witt's music as well as Terminal Crew of Dudes. Also, you might have noticed he was the dad in weapons. It's not a big deal. This is an Oscar-nominated film. Yeah Yeah, pretty cool

I think I didn't know When I saw the film For some reason I was saw it on a plane I'm so sorry I didn't make it to the theater And I was like I know that guy

Well that's cool you noticed I've had friends go and watch it And not know that that was me And then afterwards Be talking to me about the movie And I would be like Oh yeah When we filmed that

And they were like What are you talking about? It was pretty obviously you Sometimes people for me Are hair blind Where if I comb my hair A certain way They go, they don't know it's me.

I think you have a pretty distinctive face. That's nice of you to say. You're welcome. Okay. Witt. Tell me why you chose Iris by the Goo Goo Dolls as your perfect song for us to cover on this podcast. Well, at first I was thinking of cool, like cool band songs.

I could have all these silver juice songs in my head. For full transparency, Witt sent a list, and I chose Iris out of the list. list. It was number one on your list. I don't know if that was ranked or not, but... Well, I thought a lot about that list. And I stumbled on to Iris because I watched that video, the Buffalo performance in the rain. And I was showing my friend who was going through a tough time, and he started, like, choking back tears. And we were talking about it and realized There's all kinds of weird things about that song. Yeah.

Musically, you mean. Yeah. And it is a song, one of the rare songs where I remember where I was sitting when I watched the video. And it's the lyrically, it's perfect. And I really think it might be like top five best songs ever written. Lyrically, it's broad comedy. Like you were talking about, very applicable to anybody. Yeah.

Yeah, it's, it is truly a perfect song. I'm right there with you. The video you guys, he's referring to, is the Goo Goo Doll is playing live in Buffalo, New York in 2004, and it's pouring rain. And Johnny Rez busts out this acoustic guitar. And it is, I think it's part of the fabric of my DNA at this point. I think if you cut me open, that would pop out because I've watched it so many times. It's like a blanket, a warm blanket. And it's that good, hard rain.

Not to like, I was like, how are they not getting to the same thing? And the whole crowd is like they have like umbrellas and like rain jackets. And if you, I've, I've dug through those comments and some, there's one that's from like a young guy, kid maybe who's like my parents met at this show and we're in the audience. Oh my God. It's just, it's such a good video. So good. But watching that is what made me realize like there's a super long instrumental. I don't even think there's a final.

Oh, no, there is. But there's a crazy instrumental break in the song with a weird guitar. So, I mean, it's so interesting. And I can't wait to talk about this song and like the journey it went on from being written to becoming that. Not all songs have that much to talk about. Did you know, like some songs are just like this guy wrote it and it's awesome? And so it wouldn't really make a good podcast episode. But this one serves the dual purpose of A being like a fucking.

smash hit. I think it has like five and a half billion streams on on streaming and also have like a remarkably interesting backstory and like musical story. This episode of Bansplain is presented by Sierra Nevada. Life's about embracing the haze. What does that mean? Living in the moment.

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Hazy little thing. Enjoy responsibly. Topline, this song was written explicitly for the film, the 1998 film, City of Angels, starring Nicholas Cage and Meg Ryan, a remake of the Wim Wenders film, Wings of Desire. I rewatched City of Angels. of Angels this morning.

It's not a good film. No, it's not. I mean, I have like a soft spot for it because I watched it when I was young and also it gave us Iris, as well as Alanis Morris that's Uninvited, which is another God-tier song.

But I just can't take Nicholas Cage seriously in the role of Seth the angel. His name is Seth. An angel named Seth is very funny. Brov. Yeah, any person named Seth, you just can't take seriously. He really can't.

And he's just like kind of... Yeah, he's doing a lot of standing and looking. Just like mooning, you know? It was probably an easy part to play, not a lot of lines to memorize. Yeah, it's a rough hang a little bit this movie. The Wimwenders one is phenomenal. It's beautiful. And they got Nick Cave in that one.

Yeah. On all levels. And Peter fucking Falk, Columbo is in. And he's playing himself. And he's playing himself. That also just like the, besides the fact that it's just visually more beautiful, the plot of Wings of Desire is like, like much better. Although did I cry in the beginning and end of City of Angels? Yes, I'm

only human. Well, it's like a song where you would, where I would like, like, what, be walking in the kitchen to get like a Pop-Tart and I'd see my mom sobbing, like, watching the movie. Totally. You can't, I mean, like, they, it's like cheap because they're like, okay, we're going to start this off by killing a kid. Okay, what am I? I'm only fucking human. And then, you know, the ending, spoiler alert for a film that came out something almost 20 years ago, then like the woman that he fell to earth to be with dies right away. They had one day together. Yeah, what the hell?

Fucked up. Before we get to the song, though, I want to do a quick Goo Goo Dolls, TLDR. Let's just paint the picture of the Google Dolls. Great. This band is from Buffalo. The original lineup, Johnny Resnick, Robbie Takak. They were childhood best friends. and a guy named George Tutuska, Tutuska,

they called their band The Sex Maggates, 1985. It's kind of a good name. Yeah, I guess so. It's a little evocative in a bad way, but it's like they were a punk band. Right, it's a band name where they're thinking, eh, we'll be together for three weeks. Totally, and they're literally like a hardcore punk band.

They were not trying to be. Even those first Goo Goo Goo Goo Dolls records are like the replacement. The very first one is like you can't, it's not on streaming. I think you can, you have to go on YouTube or whatever, but that's like just, it could have been on like fat records. It's like not even replacements yet. They haven't even like gotten a melodic sensibility yet. Yeah, you're right.

Playing like kind of shitty pop punk adjacent music. They called themselves to the Goo Goo Dolls because they had to, I guess, play a show. And the show was like, they were like, we're not printing sex maggot on the flyer. So you're going to have to. Sounds bad, right. Yeah. They got signed to. a label called Mercenary Records

that was picked up by another label called Celluloid Records. Never heard of these. They had songs called Don't Beat My Ass with a Baseball Bat. That's early Goo Goo Dolls. One of the most interesting things for me is that they opened for so many legends, like Dag Nasty,

Motorhead, the Dead Milk Men, like the Gun Club, like all these like really amazing like 80s and 90s like hardcore and punk bands they open for all of them in Buffalo. Necrows. Second album, Jed, like you said, more trying to be kind of, you know, between punk and power pop.

And then the third album starts to have glimmers, I feel like, of genius because two days in February is a fucking banger. I don't know if you're familiar with that song. It's really good. You guys, it's really good. You start to hear the like power pop replacementsy Johnny Resnick thing, because he's so brilliant. He didn't even sing on the first album and that kind of slowly came later. They get college play around here.

In 1991, they had their first soundtrack placement, so it wasn't City of Angels. It was Freddy's Dead, the Final Nightmare. Even better. Even better, Ben. I'm awake now. I don't know it. Arguably, one of the better nightmare on Elm Street movies. I think about me is I don't watch many horror movies, so I don't know that, but I defer to you and I trust you.

It's really good. Okay. Freddy's dead, the final nightmare. Is it the last one? No, I'm thinking of new nightmare. No, that's not a good. good one that's not a good one at all okay so keeping in line with their songs being in bad movies um superstar car wash came out in 93 by this point they're on metal blade records

whoa i know isn't that interesting wait metal blade eventually was like poison the well a lot of the bands i grew up listening totally cool they had like a deal with warner brothers um i'm pretty sure so at this album there's a co-write with paul westerberg it's called we are the normal johnny resink really love the replacements it's a pretty good song this This song, like, got on 120 minutes and, like, more college play. You know what? I take it back. They did have a song on a good movie.

1993 is son-in-law starring Polly Shore. Yeah. It's a good movie. It's a very special movie. It's a really special movie. Ninety-three is also the year they put out their kind of orderline. Yeah, it's kind of their breakthrough. A boy named goo.

That's the album that has name on it. Name arguably also a perfect song. Yeah. I mean, there's a great video of him playing that life. too he's got super long hair he's like sitting on a couch on some public access talk show it's so good that song is about kennedy the vj we don't have time to get into all that but oh oh i think i've listened to that yeah a dj at k rock i'm pretty sure it was kevin wetherly um who later ran karek for years carrock very near and dear to my heart uh is the one i guess that discovered that song

and started giving it radio play and that's how it got so big at the time that we're going to start talking about they are they had sued metal blades a whole thing thing. They didn't get their money, but they had been, like, moved over to Warner's, and they were getting ready to, or trying to write their next album, which would be Dizzy Up the Girl, but they have not written anything yet. And actually, Johnny Resnick is having terrible writer's block. Do you get writers' block, remember? Yeah. Yeah. I do. I'm, like, not a good writer. I'm not a prolific writer at all. Like, something has to happen to me. Oh, okay. I tell that story.

I don't know how people just go like, you know, like, what's the, what's up with pay phones? What's the deal? Cornuts. So that's what's happening with the Goo Goo Dolls. On this other side, the legend Bob Cavallo has formed a new management company in 1984. Bob Collo, for those that don't know, at this point, I had done like 35 years of working in the industry. He managed the Love and Spoonful weather report, most notably prints. I know about that.

Kind of a big deal, yeah. So he made this new company called Atlas Third Rail. He had a couple of partners in it. One was named Dawn Steele. She was a movie producer. She actually became the first ever female head

of a major studio. It was Columbia Pictures. Pretty cool. Was she the girl in the logo holding up the... I feel like that's like someone, like a famous mythological person. actually know this is that so i don't know who that is do you know who that is no i wish they'd make a

movie about her i feel really dumb she's beautiful one of my first crushes apparently not a not a thing that is a reference but it's just they made it for the thing it's called the torch lady didn't even give her a name no torch lady it's called uh sexism yeah okay the other partner was truck rovin was don steele's husband um he's produced the dark night trilogy it's a really good trilogy letterbox top for um and then a bunch of superhero movies man of steel band members superman godman don't of justice suicide squad and he also produced oftenheimer so he's he's doing good um but at at this point and i guess none of that has actually happened um and they have this like pretty good client roster atlas third row green day because rob cavallo

his son had produced Duky, seal, the Goo Goo Goo Dolls, Weezer, Keras Flowers, which is the man that became Maroon 5, Savage Garden, and Alinas Morissette, amongst others. Wow. Pretty cool. This is, I'm sending this up to, so we know why these artists are on the soundtrack,

is because this movie came through the partner of Bob Caballo. And I guess they made this film. They had also made Ingus. Have you ever seen Ingus? Angus, so good. The movie itself, not that good. actually, but the soundtrack Godtier. I used to work at active skate shop on Santa Monica Promenade,

and Angus worked at Urban Outfitters. The actor who played Angus. That's so dark. I didn't even think about it like that. You didn't. A movie star selling BDG jeans. Not BDG denim. I thought it was cool.

It just could be like that. That's all I wanted. I'm sure he's happy. He's probably happier than I'll ever be. Yeah, same, honestly. Should we go work at Urban Outfitters? Are you guys hiring? So they decided to make this movie.

It's directed by Brad Silberson. We already kind of talked about it, but the TLDR of the plot is in Los Angeles, California, they moved this film to be set in Los Angeles. Seth is one of the many angels who watch over humans and protect them in unseen ways. His angel friend is named Cassiel, which is the same name as from Wings of Desire. Yad, yada, yada. Basically, he observes a surge. played by Meg Ryan being just like an amazing doctor who cared about her patients and falls in love with her and is tormented by this love for her because he can't be a person and he's showing himself to her and he meets another patient this is the comp for the Peter Falk character basically who is like I know you're here and he's like what he's like I used to be an angel too yeah

It's not the same as Peter Falk He's not the same as Peter Falk He's like anyways You can fall to Earth And you can just give it all up And be with her And he was like, okay So he does it

And then He has to go to Lake Tahoe This movie and Godfather too They're going to Lake Tahoe Yeah they're going to Lake Tahoe To find Maggie Meg Ryan character Gets there

They have a beautiful evening together She is hit by a truck and dies It's rough And what's the message At least he got to feel real love and kiss lips. He says to Cassiel that he would do it all over again because one, like, minute with her and being able to touch and feel her is worth everything or whatever. And then in the end, he like runs into the ocean while all the angels are standing on the ocean watching him and they're black. They did look cool in those outfits.

Of course it looks. Yeah. Matrix mode. Yeah. But this movie sucks. Okay. So this movie must have sucked even worse when they first screened it because the studio is like, okay. we're going to need some really good music for this movie, okay?

Because this is not working. And so they hire this guy, Danny Bramson, to be the music supervisor. And he comes to, they all come to Bob because his partners made this film. They're like, you have this roster of artists. Like, can you help us? And he's like, okay, sure. Tells his son, can you bring some of the lads, the artists to see the film and see if we can get some original songs? So Rob Caballo brings Alanis Morissette and Johnny Resnick and Robbie Takak.

to screen the film. The next day he gets a call from Johnny Resnick and he's like, okay, I sent you a demo. Can't believe? I can from Johnny Resnick? But by seeing that film. Oh, yeah, okay, okay.

I mean, I can too, he's it. But he had writer's block. It moved him so deeply. Maybe he's just got really bad taste. He's like, I wonder what his thoughts are in Bohemian Rhapsody. What are the worst movies ever made? Should be buried in a vault.

He did say later that he did not like Sydney of Angels. There were a few conflicting interviews. I don't want to like put his shit out on Front Street, but in one of the interviews, he was like, oh, I'd never seen Wings of Desire, so I went to and rented a VHS and watched it. And the other one, he was like, Wings of Desire was so much better. Like, I couldn't believe that. And I was like, but you said you hadn't seen it. Anyways, it doesn't matter. What matters is he went and wrote this demo. I want to say this about Rob Caballo. I think I'm such a fan of him. I think that there's like a certain kind of producer

that is a visionary like this that can hear a demo, it's a totally almost different song, you know? It's not bad, but it's not perfect song. Right. I mean, the DNA's in there. Sure. It has the like,

I'd give up forever to touch you. But like the drumbeat is weird. Oh, yeah, that weird ass drum beat. Yeah, it's like it's something as a drum machine. It's okay, you know? But Rob Caballo heard it and was like, I hear greatness. And I'm not discounting Johnny Resnick's incredible songwriting because I'm such a fan.

I think he's an incredible songwriter. But it's like the match made in heaven of this, this demo and this group with this producer, like, made something so awesome. Here's what Johnny Resnick said. I was thinking to myself, he's going through a divorce also. He's living in an L.A. hotel going through a divorce. Little rock bots, you know? But also, like, had just, but just had a huge hit with name. So like an interesting juxtaposition of a place to be.

And he was like, I was thinking to myself, this guy will give up his immortality just to feel all the horrible things that human beings feel just to feel human. I actually know a ton of people who would do the opposite. So they didn't have to feel. That was the moment that I knew what I would say to this person. You keep your mind and your heart open to get what's going on. That's the thing that becomes more difficult the older you get,

to keep those two open. I just feel as human beings we get a little bit more brutal as we get older. We don't bounce as well. I was in the room writing the song myself. Generally, the music always comes first and before the lyrics, so I jotted down a few lines that came to me, and it just sort of built from there. Have you listened to the Song Exploder episode about this song?

I like how he does the thing where he, like, shows how he does, like, when he writes a song, what he's, like, singing along to it. And it's like, he calls it, like, Bob Dylan mode, or he's like, he's just, like, saying stuff. Is that how you write songs? I should probably that's maybe would help the melodies out in my songs better but no I'm I like think of a line and I try to figure out how to make it melodic and usually it isn't I think that's a that's a cool way to do it that's how I always imagine songs were written

because I was like such a lyric person and to come to find out later that that's not how it was was really kind of disappointing for me I think better's more catchy songs are probably written by going a bapapoo right right totally um like this one. You're a musician, so maybe you can help me understand this because I don't, I don't really get the guitar center of it all. He said two of the strings of his guitar were broken, right? And so he tuned all the other strings down to D.

Yeah. And one B, three D's in a B? Yeah, so he plays this weird tuning. I don't know if he, I'm sure he didn't make, or maybe he made it up. I don't know. But that's why all of his songs have that, like, a lush sound. It's like they almost sound doubled, like the guitars. But it's because if you watch him play guitar, he often only has one string, one finger on the neck instead of, like, chord shapes.

Yeah. And it gives it that really unique goo Goo Goo Dolls kind of sound. And it's because he does these sort of bizarre tunings. Yeah. I think he mostly sticks to it's some sort of open tuning in D and I don't know if it came

I don't think it I don't know where it came from but it would make sense if he broke a couple strings I think Keith Richards kind of did a similar thing where just trying to adjust yeah he's missing a string and so he came up with the tuning that he plays all the songs on but it's such a distinct sound when you hear him start to strum that guitar totally

Rob Cavalas is something interesting which He said that because Johnny Resnick, like, such a genius, that his, his, like, vision of what he wants something to sound like is way more advanced than his fingers. So then to get that sound, he has to fuck with the tuning because he can hear it in his head. And he's like, well, this guitar is not doing it. I got to, like, get all weird mode with the tuning. I would never. I mean, the thought of even had to mess with your tuning. I want to see if I can tune my guitar to be, like, sound different and good at the same time.

Adrian Lanker does that too from big feet. I'm like, okay, well, you clearly care a lot more than I could ever imagine, so that's good. What level of guitar player are you, would you say, from one to Joe Satriani? Probably a two, three. I'm good enough at guitar to learn a song, and if I needed to figure out a solo,

I could probably do it if you gave me a bunch of days. So you're maybe like a seven. out of 10? Out of Josat Triani. Which is what, a million? Let's say yes. 10,000. Yeah, yeah, seven, that sounds right.

So it's like you're mostly a power chord guy? Yeah, chords. Just regular chords. Three chords in the truth. Yep, absolutely. Okay, fab. Johnny said this also. I did a demo with a little drum machine,

a little keyboard and some guitar on it, but Rob Kavall is one of those guys. There are no other producers out there now. They're like that where they hear the reach of a song, the potential. And Rob took it from the demo to what it became. That's quite something. Do you know where the name came from?

Tell me. Didn't he just open a newspaper and it was there? It was the LA Weekly. Okay. And it was, ugh, this really brought me back. I used to get the LA Weekly every week when I,

since I was like 12 to look at shows because that's where all the shows were listed. So cool. Better time. It's such a better time. And he saw a listing for a show by Iris DeMet, who's this like avant, I wouldn't say avant-garde, but sort of like out there folk singer

that has this like really like kind of high quavering voice. She comes from like a Pentecostal tradition, but she like did stuff with John Pry and stuff. She was like really cool. Anyways, he saw that name and he was like, that's a beautiful name. I'll call it that. Beautiful.

Yeah. He also said that melancholy and the infinite sadness had just come out. And he was really into like how Billy Corgan does that. a lot where he like names songs things that are not in the song yeah like words or bullet with butterfly wings for example yeah it's it's brave it's how you know you're like you wrote a good song is is uh people are just going to figure it out instead of if someone's saying like i'm a little dumb ass over and over again in the chorus people go little dumb ass play little dumb ass

play that i'll give up forever to touch you right song please yeah what would would it be you There's so many good lines. It'd be hard. I know. I don't want to go home right now. Don't want the world to see me. Can you play that Don't Want the World to See Me song? Nothing really lends itself to a title, though.

Yeah. Okay. So they go to The Stupid. They're like, I got money. Let's make this song. Johnny Resnick said he had to take a singing lesson before his first ever singing lesson for her to the studio because the chorus,

I guess, is like, he hits that kind of high note. Yeah. So this is interesting. It's exactly kind of what you said, but this is in my notes too. That that tuning is how he makes it sound like a 12 string, I guess. It's got that lush kind of vibe.

Another thing about his voice on this song, I got really into the replacements about a decade ago, and I remember hearing an interview with him where he talks about the replacements, and his voice really does sound like a very polished Paul Westerberg. Totally. It's not as ragged, yeah, as Paul Westerberg. But they sound really similar.

And so it makes sense that they wrote a song together. Yeah. And also the 12 string is totally a Paul Westerberg thing. He loves 12th string. Yes. Not me and my replacement's tattoo. What's that saying? It says, Darling One, Your Time Has Come.

Oh. It's one of my favorite replacement songs. I'm always saying God rest his guts. It's so good. But yeah, you can really hear it. For some reason, I hear it more in this, like, beautiful. pretty little number than I do. And there are other more full band kind of classic rock and roll vibe songs.

It kind of, doesn't it kind of make you think that there's like an alternate timeline where the replacements had the career of the Goo Goo Goo Dolls? You know, like the placements had like a huge hit and then wrote a song for a big film. Their songs are not just as good, but arguably. better and I love the Google dogs. They have more better songs. But it's just like timing and also probably, you know, it was their vibes. Their vibes. Yeah, it was a different. I mean, it's so

different to what you aspire to when you're a band that comes out of that scene, that the replacements came out at that time. And you're a band that, you know, is, yeah, I think it's just like kind of different trajectories. But I'm just not, I'm not really sure Paul Westerberg would have played the exact games that you had to play to. I don't think so. I mean, were they in charge of the licensing of Can't Hardly Way? Why isn't that song in the movie? It's such a good question. Maybe they just don't have a good business mind.

Yeah, maybe they were just like, that movie's trash. It's not, but I'm just imagining what they might have said. Yeah. Yeah, I have no idea. Should have been in the movie. Should have been. It's a fucking banger of this song. Imagine walking into that party. Do no, do, do do do, do the horns. I love that song. Anyway, sorry, this is a Google Dolls podcast.

So Rob's like, you've got gold here. Let's work it out. And first he's like, I think we need an orchestra. I was just like injected it into my veins. And do you know who he hired to do the arrangement? Nope. A guy called David Campbell. Someone else calls that man Dad.

His name is Beck. Oh. That is Beck's father who did the orchestral arrangement on Iris by the Kukudals. Oh, man. I didn't know that Beck had it like that. You will, I think everyone ultimately has a father. Yeah, it seems like he would have been born, like, behind the Viper room. He came.

He cracked out of an egg behind the Vipar Room, the Silver Lake Lounge. Right. And then Rob is like, okay, beautiful, loving the cinematic. We need something else. And he told his engineer, this guy, Alan Sides. He's like, we need mandolin. and he's like, oh, I want Dean Parks. That was like a big session, mandolin player.

And by the time they remembered to get Dean Parks in there, it was 1 a.m. and the guy was gone. And he was like, I'm not coming back until Tuesday or whatever. And he's like, well, we need someone faster than Tuesday. And the second engineer is like, I know a guy, why don't you hire him? His name is Tim Pierce. Tim Pierce played guitar on Bon Jovi's runaway, crowded houses, don't dream it's over, mostly fills.

and the guitar on the bridge of black or white by Michael Jackson. Ooh, that's some good guitar. Not to get spicy and like into the weeds, but that's a fucking tune. That's my favorite Michael Jackson song. I was just talking about it with a friend. That whole album is honestly kind of wall-to-wallbanger. It's dangerous. Yeah.

Yeah. Michael Jackson is just like... Do you think he was a good musician? I think he's a good musician and a great guy who never did anything weird. Michael Jackson, Innocent, Whitmer Thomas, printed in the newspapers. Well, I don't know about any of that, but I know he made some god tear music and Dangerous was one of my first CDs. And I think he could dance pretty good, too. That's what people are saying.

Yeah. Did you see the biopic? I saw it twice. You loved it that much? I think it is one of the more entertaining movies. but it's not good. Yeah. I was also quite entertained by it.

Did I have a physical reaction when the CGI monkey came on the screen? Yes. Yeah. It was not a positive reaction. No. No, it was... That was rough for me. That was bizarre.

CGI bubbles was really rough. And it's also weird. Even that, to me, is like, perverse when they're playing in the room together. And he gets the monkey to play Twister. I'm like, you're fucking that. monkey. I know. You can't absolutely fuck it that little monkey. No. No. Okay, we've strayed so far from God's light. Okay, let's get it back to Iris. Tim Pierce is like the secret sauce, I think. Again, everyone is playing their part here. Johnny Resdenick, one of the greatest songwriters of our

lifetime. Rob Cabal, one of the greatest producers to ever exist. And then Tim Pierce comes in. So they hire him to come back. And they get to the studio. And they get to the studio. And And this man, Tim Pears, has brought 15 guitar amps, 15 guitars, and like 100 pedals. And the Google Dolls are like, the fuck, man. They're like kind of, kind of bothered. They're a little bit, put out, you know? And Rob's like, you guys just let me go have a little chat with him. And the guy was like, I just didn't like, you know, this is Rob Caballo.

I didn't want to show up. Like, like, I was just going to not do anything. I don't even out, you know. And Rob Paul's like, look, to the Google Dolls. He's like, why don't we just let us? him cook, you know? It's not going to cost any extra. If we don't like it, we'll just erase the tape. Honey,

they did not erase the tape. Because he cooked too close to the sun almost. He plays the solo that you're talking about. The slide guitar solo is Tim Pierce. Yeah. Much needed. On a Les Paul hotcake.

You know that guitar? No, I don't. Me neither. Johnny Resnick said, when I played the slide of guitar solo, it sounded like fighting cats. And then Tim played it and it went up the level. There's a lot of nuance to that guitar. It's incredible. You have to be gentle and firm at the same time.

Like with a woman. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Exactly. I know all about that. I can't play a slight guitar. I've tried. I actually tried two weeks ago in the studio.

It's hard. Shit, I don't. I can't do a lot of Southern stuff. Can you grill? Is that Southern? Can you barbecue? That's universal. Can you deep-bri?

Can you deep-fried? Hell no. I don't know how to do none of that. Can you fish? Yeah. I can fish. What else you guys got, talk about? We can, we like to kill animals.

I've never hunted. I've shot a gun one time when I was six and it flew me across the farm, like the kickback. There's all kinds of other southern things that I don't really do. Sure. But most of them I'm into. I like to go to a waffle house. Love a waffel house. Fuck that shit up.

Yeah. So good. One time, back in the, back when I was younger, like in my 20s, we would go on family vacations. We got into this weird time where my parents let, like, it would like we would take turns picking where to go. And it was my turn. And I was like, I want to go to the south.

And they were like, okay. And so, and I didn't really know enough. So we didn't go south enough if you ask me. We flew into Atlanta and started there. So I feel like we should have gone. But I was in fucking heaven. I was like, we need to go to a waffle house every day. It's one of the best times in my life.

Yeah, and people do do. It's so nice to go to waffle houses because you see like an old man just that's his routine every day. That's so cool. It's great. You can kind of get that here at Bob's Big Boy, which I love. Yeah. It has a similar energy. Okay.

So the Goo Goo Goo Goo Dolls came around. Tim Pierce was my point. They were like, thank you for bringing all 15 guitars and all 15 amps and the 100 pedals because this sounds. amazing. And now the song is done. And it's gorgeous. It's the song that we know and love today. You know who heard it and said, I hate that. No, thank you. Nicholas Cage? No. I don't know what Nicholas Cage thought of the song, director of Brad Silberson. He was like, no. Clearly he doesn't know what he's doing if you watch the movie. Apparently, allegedly. He was like, listen, he's, Seth.

is trying to get up to Lake Tahoe. He's hitchhiking. It's a 60s beatnik vibe. He went to Rob and he's like, I want this song to have ukulele and bongos. Jesus. And Rob is like, okay, how about we compromise

and we do a 12-string guitar, a stand-up bass, and maybe some light congas? And he goes, okay. And so you were saying earlier, you noticed something different about Iris in the film. And what is that? It's just that it's like more of an acoustic version. It's not the one that we all know.

No. It's this version that Rob Cavallo made to placate Brad Silberson with the 12th string guitar, which is why it's so pretty, but it doesn't have the gravitas. Yeah, it doesn't get the juice. It doesn't got the juice. And that's something I didn't know until recently. When you rewatch City of Angels and your monthly rewatch of City of Angels. in your monthly rewatch of City of Angels.

Yeah. When I want to feel alive. When I want to bleed just to feel like. When everything feels like the movies. Yeah, you bleed just to know you're alive. It's funny how many of the lyrics are so literal. Yeah. Of the movie, you know, like I'd give up forever to touch you. Straight up literal, pulled from the film.

He was really clock in the movie. He's really paying attention. Saw it and went home. Also, the little pun, you're the closest to heaven that I've ever been, and I don't want to go home right now. Heaven is home. Yeah. You get it. Yeah.

So good. Everything's made to be broken. I just want you to know who I am. That's my Johnny. Also, when everything feels like the movie is a little winky. It's a front movie. It's just such a fucking good song. I mean, I know we're kind of making fun of it, but actually these lyrics, if I wrote one single one of them, I would quit.

No, they're amazing. I mean, there is like, I think people mock it because it's so popular, but I think to make a hit this monstrous and this all-consuming, the lyrics have to be broad like that. It doesn't mean they're not good lyrics. They're just very broad. Like, so anyone can listen to it and be like, that's me. Yeah. I would give up forever to touch you. And it doesn't, I mean, and it helps that Johnny Resonick had that really cool haircut.

How would you describe that Johnny Resdening haircut? It's like an emo mullet. Yeah. He's the only one who ever had it. There's like some balliage, like some highlights going on. When I was a kid, when I first saw this video, I remember the day I saw it. When he's sitting at the tower kind of mimicking it. Every time I imagine him writing that song, I imagine him up in that tower.

He sat up in that tower. Yeah. in maybe the sunset tower. He was at an LA hotel. I'm not sure. I don't know if it was a sunset tower. Could have been the same looking through the telescope watching the movie through the telescope or something. But he's wearing that red leather jacket and he's got

that hair and I said to my mom, my brother was and my big brother's in the room and I said, can you take me to the haircut place? I want to get that haircut. And my brother goes, that's not a haircut. He just grew his hair long. And I was like, okay,

well, immediately fell. It's like, Defeated. I feel your brother saved you a little bit. Oh, if I went to school in Alabama with that haircut, I was at a new school too. It had been over for me. But I wanted to look like that. I know AI is bad, but now all I want to do is go put your photo into AI and Johnny Resonick photo into AI and be like, give him the haircut. You can do that.

Yeah. I think that's what it's for. In my, yeah, in my estimation is for that. It's for those videos that I keep seeing on Twitter because I am a boomer. that involve a cat coming to wake someone up by playing an instrument. Right. Have you seen the one where the cat comes to the porch

multiple times playing different instruments? I cry. I like cry laughing. And I'm sorry? I watched that and I'm like, AI is good. I'll invest it. If it's the cat coming to play the symbol.

Just those things? There's one of Michael Jackson working at a grocery store. I think it's funny that we were in, clearly this will happen, but we were all like, oh, it's Terminator, the machines are going to take over. But no, it's just people making Michael Jackson working at a grocery store.

And a cat playing the accordion on the front porch. It's like a raccoon making a hot dog on a grill. But then, yes, eventually the machines will take over and will all die. This is how they trick us in the beginning. They're like, look, it's just a cat playing accordion. And you're like, uh-oh. Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters.

On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca.com.com. Let me ask you, is this your favorite Oudal song? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, as much as I want to say, like, name. Yeah. I think it's this.

You think it's Iris? I listened to it. I listened to it on a road trip from Alabama back to L.A. a few weeks ago. Like, I went and found it and played it and listened to it. Were you having a sort of an introspective? I don't know if I've ever had an introspective thought as an adult while listening to this song. But I have, I have, like, broken down this song. And like we were saying earlier, like, I think it's bizarre that I would like to listen to it on the

radio in 1999 again. Yeah, like remember how it hit those times. Well, and also just to see how do they

deal with the big instrumental break. Is there a radio edit, you know? Name has that too. It's right before the very end

where it's that he just repeats and I won't tell him, you know, like, there's like that instrumental break. It's maybe a

hallmark of his songwriting. And what's crazy is if you think of Google dolls, you think of song and sometimes this song overshadows all of their other hits it's not my

favorite what is it my favorite is a tie between slide and black balloon maybe a slightly edged out by black balloon maybe it's black balloon makes her fly I listen to their top ten songs yeah yeah and so you heard black balloon goes so hard slide slide is fucking incredible slide the next album slide is dizzy up the girl so IRIS we didn't say but Iris ends up on up the girl. And Dizzy Up the Girl is produced by Rob Kavallo and becomes like a fucking massive hit. I mean, it has Iris, it has slide, it has Black Balloon, it has Broadway.

Broadway's dog tonight. And then it has this really pretty song called Acoustic Number Three. It's a really good album. It's a great album. I had it. Yeah, sure. I had the CD. I remember playing it and kind of moshing around on my couch.

I think I got this in like a heart, heart-shaped box EP. You didn't go full in-yodor. I just would get whatever there was. We didn't have a lot of options down there. So I would also usually get a CD that just looked cool. Yeah. I did that all the time. I'd be like, oh, it's a guy with a mohawk.

Okay. That's how I got sponge rotting pinata was because I thought the cover looked cool with all the candy corn on it. And guess what? It was fucking cool. That album rips. I got to get into that. You never heard rotting piniana by sponge? Mm-mm.

16 candles? Plowed? Maybe I have. Are you a little younger than me? I think you're a little bit younger than me. Maybe. Oh, you just nodded real fast like that. You're like, yeah.

Well, I've listened to your podcast. So I know how old you are. I'm 38. Yeah, you are. You're six years younger than me. You're quite a bit younger than me. So that makes sense. You would have, I was, you know, at a different age when this, this iris situation came out.

I think I was 10. Yeah. So I was fully driving a car. And you're probably feeling the feelings you're supposed to feel listening to the song. Whereas I was like, I want that haircut. I want to know what love is. I want to know what love is. Yeah, but that's like the beauty of these songs.

But like I also remember being 10 or 11 and having like completely inappropriate reactions to songs. Like listening to the Afghan wigs when I was 11. I mean like, yeah, I didn't fucking understand it. And I'm like, when I understand about an alcoholic situation ship, you know, like, come on. I think this is why 10-year-olds should be able to vote. It's because they're curious in a way that grown-ups are. They're more open-minded. They're willing to think things through.

I would, I think it couldn't, it couldn't make things worse. I don't think so. If we opened it up to 10-year-olds, it honestly might improve things. And they're not allowed to use social media, so it would be them watching some interviews on CNN or Fox News or whatever they're going to watch. I'm not the 10-year-olds watch Fox News. Well, they'd be, they'd have to at school. They're being forced to be educated. Civics class, which again, I don't think we have that anymore.

I don't think so. Do you want to hear all the songs that hit number one during the summer of Iris, including Iris, but not limited to? So it was 1998? Yeah. Summer in 1998, I had just moved to Gulf Shores, Alabama from Birmingham. What was on the radio? You went to your new school. Yeah, was it Eve 6?

was that the next year? I was swallowing my pride. I was over the line. Was it, I'm blue? Dabudabudda. No, it was Aerosmith. I don't want to miss a thing. From the major motion picture,

Armageddon. It's brand one week since you looked at me. Okay. I love that song. Ticket a Chinese, a Chinese chicken. Yeah, it's a fucking banger. Brandy and Monica, the boy is mine. Oh, shit.

Yeah, this is a moment in my life for sure. I don't remember Arkellie and Celine. Oh, no, I do. I'm your angel. You were my man. So that's what a pure and more beautiful time. It was. Just turning on the TV and hoping to God this video came on.

When did you get into your pop punk? It was right here. Right here. Right then and there. I was just getting into skating and watching videos and like figuring out. out about those songs. My brother's your age. So he had good taste. He was in a cover band called Toxic Toothpaste. And it's fucking God to your name. It's so good. And they would cover

Screeching Weasel, Pennywise, Blink. And so I just wanted him to like me. And then he, you know, I remember Lint Biscuit came out and with the faith cover. And I want to have faith. And I was like, an abomination, that song. Yeah, I was listening to it and loving it. And my brother was like you're not allowed to listen to this. Your brother was cool. He was like steering you away from Johnny Resonig haircut. He was steering you away from bad rap metal. Yeah.

Yeah. And him and my cousin Wilkes from the special. The back of the neck. What used to be a skater punk. He was the first one to get into it out of my friends and family. What do you think happened? I don't know. I think he got into a lot of.

Fuck shit. And he turned his life around. Kind of turned his life around. Good for him. As a teenager, really, he was like, He's been a professional fisherman since he was like 18 years old. So cool. Yeah.

It's like a real job. We don't have those anymore. Like I don't know anybody that has a real job that's on an email job. Right. Or like podcast job. Like just the stupidest, most useless jobs on the planet. Love and respect also yours. Like what are we going to do when the Armageddon comes?

You're going to make people laugh. I'm going to tell them music facts. We need your brother or your cousin, I mean. Yeah. I keep thinking I'll just like, if I could right now, like, just like go like jump in a detonate the vest maybe I'm just overwhelmed you're doing a lot of press babe I'm really sorry I mean on one hand it's like really cool because your special is popular and shout out the god alloy he's good at his job yeah and people like you I love doing this okay

and I like the videos that I've for the most part I don't like the clothes I'm wearing and I don't like my posture, but, and people like those videos and they watch them, but do people, okay, let me push back. Do people like those videos or are people just like tormented by lack of attention span and dopamine addiction now? And the only thing they can stomach is watching a 30 second thing where someone guesses songs or like, as my friend Patrick Sandberg put it in his amazing substack paraphernalia, do spicy chicken torture rituals. Like, do people like that? Or have we just created an environment in which this is all that?

It's like, is this not lightly idiocracy? And I'm not saying what I do is fucking Kafka. Essentially, you're doing a long form interview research thing. That's like a real thing. I think that, yeah, people's brains are rotten. And I also wonder now, like if people will go, oh, I saw your track star. and instead of going I saw your track star

I do kind of like the track star I don't like it's fun because I like songs I like sing people talk about them but I don't know if they're going I saw your track star which made me then go watch your hour long special

on a on HBO I don't think I don't know if that's like there's like not a one to one like it used to be when I put out my last special none of this existed in 2020

which is crazy that wasn't that long ago no so like the social media campaign is it's interesting and I don't know if it necessarily works i i like a lot of i like doing it it's fun and i'll do anything to get people to watch terminal crew of dudes on hboh on tv on tv streaming now um but i i don't know if it

necessarily drives people there and uh it'd be great if it was like the old days where you just do johnny cnardtine night show yeah and that's kind of it and you hope everything works and people watch it but now also there's a billion stand-up specials and there's a billion new songs and And it's like, it's hard with album drops now to try to break through. It's like, it's a different ball game. And I do wish that it would all die. And I wish that social media would burn. I think we've had a good run.

We had a good run, but we all know how to find our communities and our support groups for, for whichever, wherever we feel, you know, we feel safe and all that stuff. So now we can fucking kill it. And let's see how long until, I'm curious what you think. If social media died. Yeah. And if you, like, you can still have YouTube, but it has to be a video. It can't be like a short. Okay.

All the short attention span stuff died. Yeah. How long would it take for people's brains to, like, watch a movie or go see a movie in the theater? To be able to tolerate that length of attention. Yeah. Or just get excited to leave the house. and buy a ticket. Yeah.

And people complain, movie tickets are so expensive. They're 20 bucks. When I was a kid, a movie costs... It was five bucks for me. I used seven, maybe. Yeah, it's like eight to ten bucks. And I'm like, inflation, that sounds about right, 20. It's not quite right, but yeah.

It's gotten a little more than inflation. But also, nobody's watching movies anymore. That's part of it. Yeah. So go see a movie, please. But also, we need to make better movies. We're like full gone into like old man yelling at the cloud. hours. You're right. You're right. But let's all burn it. Let's burn it all down. Let's burn it all down start

from scratch. I kind of am I, again, are my hands clean? No. Am I populating fucking Instagram.com on the weekly with five clips of this show that nobody cares about? Correct. I see. I know. People care. I know what time it is. I know what time it is. No, I'm dealing with the same thing at HBO being like, like, you got to post clips. And I'm like, well, you're already talking about it. I'm like, ain't nobody's watching these clips. And it's like, but you know what happens? People do watch the clips and it's the exact wrong people. It's the exact people you do not wish to watch the clip who are like,

this woman's voice is so fucking annoying. And you're like, okay. He's trying too hard or they'll go for me. He's trying too hard, it'll go. Why did you raise the price? And it's like about HBO, totally. Totally. That have, I once had an essence feature and it was like right around when they were having like

tariff problems or whatever. And every comment on the thing was like, why are the tariff costs so high? Where's my order? That, that, dot. Yossi's great, though. I was like, all that, to tie it back into this, I do think, you know, everyone's always been up against the same things. Like, you know, Johnny Resnick had to make some choices.

He had to go on the subway takes of his time, which was to, you know, do a, you know, do a movie soundtrack or go on a major label or whatever. Right. Back then, there was such a thing as selling out. Yeah, I don't know. By that point, do you think there was? Well, I think music industry was peak, I think, in 1999. Yeah.

So there was, yeah. Yeah. Because you could still make money and have that integrity of being on an independent label. But I think it was the time when people were, like, punk can be on any, like it would be nice to make a living like more of a more money and also Johnny Resnick's songs

and the Google Dolls were just like so pop. Those were yeah those were begging to be on mainstream radio yeah so maybe a major label is the same thing as me doing hot chicken talk or the thing. Have you done that one yet? The lady no

I feel like I've torpedoed any chance of me being booked on any of these and that's okay. Well, the thing is, I'm very sorry. Is you're aware, I'm aware, they're definitely aware. Right. Like, we all know what time it is. Yeah. We all know, we all know how we're contributing to the

dissolution of society. Yeah. Letterbox is the only for now. Yeah, everybody go review my special on Letterbox. Give it five stars and a heart and a little text. And make sure to log it to?

Log it on your ladder boxed. Yeah. What's the last great movie you saw? I know you're a big fan of the big picture, so here's my big picture moment for you. Last great movie, a new movie? Sure. It can be any movie, I think.

Well, the last great movie I saw was... Oh, my God, I'm forgetting the name. The Jim Jarmish movie in New Orleans, where they go, Tom Waits, and the gang goes to prison. Oh, my God. Down by law? Down by law. favorite movies yeah I with a Benini yeah oh what a fucking film it's so funny

watched it in the middle of the day in my bed with the lights the light pouring through reflect I could see my reflection in the TV the whole time and I was still just like this is so that's how my house is too and I have not solved it like even though I got curtains like no matter what if I want to watch something during the day there's reflection on the TV it's dark it's probably trying to stop me from doing that yeah it gives like every time I do that I feel like extremely unemployed like DeVry college hours you know like I'm like feel like the DeVry college ads are going to come on and tell me to like get my ass a job yeah it is a weird it's very like at home faking sick yeah yeah okay down by law that's a great recommendation I was also just shooting

a movie that was kind of stressful oh how's your acting career going it's going all right okay it's going okay good yeah I'll give a shout out to Olivia Gurkie or our homegirl yeah and And I would watch Robocop every night. I saw that you put it in your top four on Waterbox. Oh, my, yeah, Robocop is just the best. And I love that movie, but I found that it's like the most comforting movie. Interesting. And I would watch it every night on my laptop to kind of chill out.

I don't think I've seen that film in 25 to 30 years. It's a perfect movie. Okay. And it means a lot more than you think it does. It's deeper than you think it is. Like if you just remember, oh, it's a robot cop. There's more to it than that. Okay, Robocop Remake starring Whitmer Thomas When?

I would never do it. I think I love it and cherish it too much, even if they were like, here's your big break. They already tried that and it wasn't good. But if they were like, I think they're making a TV show right now too, but if they were like, here's your big break, Robocop, we want you to be Alex Murphy and Robocop. I would say no.

That's where you draw the line morally, that you're like, I will not sell you this film. I wouldn't do it unless Peter Weller was in it as, Robocop. I'd be happy to play a different character. I even have a Robocop idea for a movie. But it has to have Peter Weller. He's the reason that movie and Paul Verhoeven. It's a great film. There's so much humanity and heart. It makes me emotional watch and I cry every time at the, at a few parts of that movie. Okay. Well, Whitmer Thomas, what a beautiful place for us to. It's almost like Johnny Resnix or the Gugu Dawes Iris. It's, I'd say, equal. as far as perfect movie perfect song perfect uh gooo dolls playing iris in the pouring rain in buffalo new york in 2004 and you know what i think i'm going to edit iris into the the special no into

robocop oh actually i have a funny idea now that well that's funny that is you did bring me to the last thing i wanted to say which is did you find it surprising that iris had like this random resurgent It's not random, but like, I feel like, don't you feel like last year all of a sudden it was everywhere? I think it... Wasn't it? It was like a TikTok trend. I think TikTok kids are sort of desperate for this kind of thing.

Like what? Good songs? I think just like a guy being like authentically sort of navel-gazier sad on a guitar instead of being kind of performative. Right. And being able to sing in a way that,

I guess he is sort of doing a version of Paul Westerberg, but it's not really an impression. I feel like a lot of singer-songwriters now are doing some sort of impression of another person. Also, Phoebe Bridgers covered it in lockdown, I feel like. Taylor Swift covered it even before that, like 2011. She covered it on stage at Madison Square Garden and brought Johnny Resnick on stage with her. That's really, that's important. I love the new Phoebe Bridgers album, so just letting you guys know. Oh, okay, now I remember.

Sorry, I was trying to Google why the TikTok. trend happen. It was like me in the 90s or something. It was a whole, it was like a thing. You remember? And then people would set these like slideshow photos to Iris. So it became this like huge thing last year. And so many people look great. In the 90s. And now. It goes to show how like kind of that people aged well. Like skincare worked. There wasn't there's another internet thing right about that how like randomly millennials look so much better for their age and zoomers look so much worse or something this is like a thing really yeah yeah makes sense where's sunscreen i guess it's like that other song that was oh yeah same was that the same year um i think no i think it was a little bit later

gotcha the the the basler was it the same time as chris gains real heads don't remember chris i remember driving home from school and hearing sunscreen and Chris Gaines. It was Bazelerman. Everyone's free to wear a sunscreen. Oh yeah, 997 the year before. You're so right. What was your graduation song? I don't know. You don't remember? I'm sure it was like Dave Matthews band or... It's a great band. Yeah, I don't know. I was not, I wasn't really participating. I went to graduation. I remember dropping my diploma when he handed it to me and it was embarrassing and then I forgot to tell my parents it was happening or something like that and then my you forgot to tell your parents about your graduation ceremony yeah and then my friend clay's mom took us to

hooters afterwards that's pretty awesome I think I was like heartbroken I had a girlfriend in senior year who would cheat on me every other week and that was probably one of the weeks she cheated on me and that's probably all I was really thinking about I wish at the time I was probably listening to iris crying your eyes out I wish I could write this for her so she'd love me so she'd stop cheating me yeah you're too nice you're too nice of a guy whammer you're too pure for this world mine was time of your life by green day in case anyone was wondering oh well see that's cool it also makes sense just lined up timing wise yeah um wittmer this has been a real delight i hope you had a nice time absolutely i love this podcast and i love the ringer

network and I love the big picture and rewatchables and van van and lathan is a wonderful wonderful person I hope that I get to meet all of them one day and I hope that they if they have a bad review of something I do just don't talk about it okay like don't mention podcast about it unless I'm just a small part in it okay then it's okay yeah they seem to love weapons so you're doing okay so You guys come back next week for a new episode of Bansplaine. If you liked what you heard today, subscribe for more episodes of Bansplaine. Our guest today was Whitmer Thomas. Watch his new special Terminal Crew of Dudes on HBO Now.

This episode was produced by Rob Sunderman and edited by Adrian Bridges with help from Justin Sails. Video production by Jacob Cornett. Executive producers for Bansplaine are Gina Delvac and me, Yossi Sala. Our gorgeous and catchy theme song was composed and recorded by Bethany Costantino and Jennifer Clavin and graciously recorded by Carlos Delagarza in Los Angeles, California. Special thanks to our producer emeritus, producer Dylan, aka Dylan Tupper Rupert, and also Sean Fennessey and the wonderful Rob Cavallo. Come back every Thursday for a new episode of Bandsplain on Spotify or wherever you listen to

podcasts. Two and five Canadians will hear the words you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca.ca.