Bandsplain - SOUNDTRACK: ‘Times Square’ with Patrik Sandberg

Episode Date: August 6, 2026

Yasi is joined by returning guest Patrik Sandberg to revisit the soundtrack to 1980 cult film ‘Times Square.’ They cover the scrapped love story between its two leads, the producer’s efforts to turn the project into the next ‘Saturday Night Fever,’ and the decision to market its sprawling punk and new wave soundtrack ahead of the movie itself. Plus: Patrik’s mini deep dive on legendary producer Robert Stigwood and why the greatest influence 'Times Square’ had might be on the generation that followed it. CREDITS: Host: Yasi Salek @yasisalek Guest: Patrik Sandberg @patriksandberg Producer: Rob Sundermann  Editor: Adrian Bridges  Additional Production Supervision: Justin Sayles Theme Song: Bethany Cosentino Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's with this band anyway? I don't get it. Can you please explain? Wait, like, Bansplain? Hello and welcome to Bansplaine. I am your host, Yossi Salek. This is usually a show where I invite an expert guest on to help me explain a cult band or iconic artist, but today we are still somehow, against all odds,

in the midst of our ongoing best 80s soundtrack series. and today's episode is a special one. It is about Times Square. My guest today is the beloved, the wonderful Patrick Sandberg. The recurring. The recurring. The annoying neighbor. The nosy neighbor of Bansplain.

You're, what's the, what's... And the Cosmo Kramer. What's the home improvement guy who you only see from... Oh, yeah, yeah. That's you. Him. Times Square is my oyster babe, and I hope I find it a pearl is how I feel about that. Before we get into it, though, I just need to do.

do a quick programming note. I am doing my first ever solo mailbag episode, just me, a brave girl in the woods with your questions. So if you're listening to this before August 10th, send your questions, babe, send them on in, send questions about new music, old music, love, life, philosophy, religion, maybe none about religion. Wow. War.

None of that. you know, open your heart and ask what's inside and perhaps I'll answer. Send those questions to Bandsplain at gmail.com again before August 10th. Patrick. Hi. Hi. Welcome back. I can't stay away.

You love it here. I do. You love it here on Bansplaine. I'm moving in. I think I was a little hesitant at first to do this one, even though I'm very passionate about this soundtrack, but I know it's sort of a undersung film, but definitely soundtrack. I mean, this is not footloose, you know, this is not dirty dancing.

This is like sort of a niche proposition. But as I always do, I needed to go with my heart and like, you know, logic be damned. But then as I was, you know, preparing for this, I got some feedback. from some Cherogenex advisors about how major this soundtrack was for their personal musical development and their understanding of what was out there. And that's kind of what was subconsciously in my mind, I think, when I was thinking about this. It's like that this was such a snapshot of a moment in time with, for lack of a better term, like underground or like post. post-punk, import, new wave, music that probably gave a lot of people insight into this world that they didn't know about because none of this was mainstream.

And I think for that alone, it's definitely worth discussing. I think some of it was verging on mainstream. And I think a lot of that is Robert Stigwood, which we'll get into like the kind of the Machiavellian- Yeah, the way that this was packaged likely if you can use such a grotivian. Tessque contemporary term for something that feels like a little precious jewel that exists in its own historic context. But like, you know, trolling around the internet like on all of the various forums and YouTube. I was getting really into YouTube comment sections.

Oh, I love that. The purest and best YouTube section is for me, especially music videos, have like the most beautiful comments where it'll be like, my boyfriend's been dead for 12 years and I listen to this song every day and think of him in Cheddar Tier. And it's like all these like beautiful like expressions of like love and pain. A lot of elders.

Totally. But it's also like because with this soundtrack in particular, it's the soundtrack as an album is not on streaming. There's the there are playlists that are available. Right. That have been. The fans have made. But also a lot of songs or maybe not a lot,

but a significant number of songs on the soundtrack are not. are not on streaming. Yeah. But they are on YouTube, you know, bootleg style. That's where I want to listen to them. And you look at the comments on YouTube, and it's everyone talking about how important this soundtrack is. Totally.

It's a niche soundtrack, but if you know, you know. Exactly. And like, for a lot of people, it's like, it's definitely like a cult soundtrack from the 80s. Yeah. And when we were talking about which 80s movies to do for soundtracks, and you did that whole draft episode about it. Sean and Chris, yeah, the Hall of Fame.

Which they, I bring this up just to be like, not to be like, I'm right, but like, I'm glad I sucked to my guns. Because they sort of pushed back against it. Like Sean, I think in particular, I was like, this is a 70s. This is a 70s music or whatever. And I was like, yes, but it's not because some of that music, while released in the 70s, didn't get a life and love from people. The discovery was a trickle. It was UK only imports. I don't think that matters at all.

Yeah. But I do think you need to set rules and parameters and stick to them or else you venture into like hypocrite land. Do you know what I mean? I've been hypocrite land. I'm the mayor of hypocrite land. Hypocratland, which is also better known as America. Well, I think for me, the metric that... But it came out in 1980, it counts as an 80 soundtrack.

And what's most important... I wanted to do the big chill. Which is also great. But the big chill, it's just a different value proposition. What I look for in soundtracks when I want to talk about this... them is, and I don't always succeed because A, I have a schedule to stick to and I have to find guests. But I want exactly what this is. Like, I think soundtracks had this incredible ability to open people's minds to new things. Like, it would deliver you this world that you didn't

know about. Like, I'm the Big Chill does something very different. It's very cool. But it's not exactly like people were like, oh, I didn't know about that song. Well, I was looking at the Big Chill more anthropologically and what it meant for the Sound soundtrack as a product. Yeah, the soundtrack economy. It felt like a very big turning point for soundtracks as like something that you sell that becomes a hit on its own. Yeah. Separate from the movie.

Totally. Even though it's definitely part of the movie. And what was so fascinating because I watched The Big Chull recently, not to make this about the Big Chil. But just, you know, I went on Letterboxed and the Big Chil is like a very hated and despised film for like very very. to me. Very revisionist kind of bullshit political reasons. Right. But a lot of complaining from younger people that are on letterboxed was like, oh, these needle drops are so obvious.

Every movie uses these. And it's like, well, they didn't until the big chilled in it. This movie came out a long time ago. This is an argument I often have with people where I'm like, it's impossible for you to understand seeing this in its context. So don't judge it against. You know, like, try to imagine what it was like in 1980. What was a big till four? I don't remember what it came out.

Love it or hate it. The Big Chill, everyone hates it started. Everyone also loves it. It was a huge successful thing that a lot of movies did for a long time, which was to have these characters, usually white characters, unfortunately. But not totally white characters, but characters in movies like jumping around dancing on the bed to Motown songs or throwing the Motown song into the trailer because it evokes.

this like kind of like glorious Americana feeling of like togetherness and emotion and it like Hollywood took that model that the Big Chill basically started and ran with it for like 40 years. Like it, we were talking about it how like. Yeah, Forrest Gump is like a spiritual descendant of the Big Chill for sure. It wasn't, it's not Motown, but it's putting together all these like very iconic songs from different eras and and using them for their emotional impact. And it really worked. And also in a great way, like for me as a kid getting the Forrest Gump soundtrack,

I did learn a lot about things like I didn't know about, like, Linnard Skinner or whatever. It wasn't Littard Skinner on that. Yeah, I'm sure. Everyone was on the first. It was a double CD. It was a double CD. But, like, you know, like movies like Stepmom where it's like Susan Surrandon's dying of cancer and they're singing Ain't No Mountain High Enough or whatever. Or like, I brought up the Family Stone, like, trailer.

Like that whole thing Right And then that ended up I don't know What lived in the gulf Between these two things But we went from like An epidemic of like

Mining Motown Boys on the side When a big old person When they sing You got it Are we okay Are we gonna cry Too much this episode?

No I know And then she's dying And now we just get like The Ratsby Voice Snow cover We raged out Against this Yeah

In a previous episode. Oh, okay. I didn't hear. Oh, it's so fine. Those music supervisors need to go to prison. It's enough. Stop it. No more covers with breathy, female vocals.

Enough. Of, like, 80s and 90s hard rock songs. I'm done. We're all done. You did a thing. I'm proud of you. But they're like, they think that was the last time there was monoculture around, like, you know, melodic pop music or something. So they're like, well, everyone.

remembers that song. Yeah. What if Billy Elish did it? Wouldn't that be crazy? This is Allison Chains, but a girl is singing. But I think that Times Square, you know, we've brought up so many other movies as well. Like, Times Square wasn't, wouldn't have been my first choice, but I'm really glad that that's what it ended up being.

Yeah. Because you get to have, because you've, you've had guests on the sort of picked movies, and this is like really your movie choice. Like, you've been writing for Times Square. Yeah, and it's not that it's my favorite 80s soundtrack. because it's not. It's just, I find it to be super fascinating as a soundtrack and as, I think the story around it is interesting. I think it's just like for me, one of the more interesting ones to talk about, you know? Totally. And when I was bringing up my favorites, a lot of them are like,

oh, there's only one or two songs actually on that soundtrack. They're just impactful. I was like American Gigolo. Right, which is the blondey song. And then a bunch of Georgian Maroder instrumental. Yeah, or like blue velvet or like. you know, these movies where the songs are older, which you kind of did already with Dirty Dancing. Yeah. I mean, there's less than zeros. There's a couple we haven't done yet that Valley Girl is another really good example

that has like a lot of like contemporary new wave. Valley Girl has psychedelic furs, right? It's so major. Let's get into this one. First, also I want to give a shout out and a big thank you to Paradise Found Records in Petaluma, your hometown. I had nothing to do with it. You had nothing to do with it, but God bless them because they sent me the Times Square double vinyl, which was so kind of.

I think it's an original. So take a look, you guys. I think they are also still putting this soundtrack out. I hope so. I was looking for, I looked online quickly, and I was like, oh, there's so many of them. Yeah. They didn't have it at a Miba. I really wanted to have it here because I was speaking to also former guest of the pod, Paul Hammond.

My second. Honey. My two best gays, and I can't even. He announced his last name right. Because he wanted to make him... You just had a stroke. It's okay. I wanted him to make him European.

I'm like, Hamon. He's like, it's Hammond. Paul Hammond also said a similar thing, which was he was like, oh, I don't know how I found that, but I was so struck by the artwork when I bought it. And I was like, oh, it's these two cool, you know, punk-ish-looking girls with the, like, and so I didn't want to have the actual vinyl here to look at. It kind of evokes like a vintage interview magazine. Totally.

The sort of vibe, you know? Okay, should we talk a little bit first about just like the film before we got into? Because I think it's kind of inextricable, like maybe the like the top line of the plot is the soundtrack. It's like this is a movie to me. Yeah. And I mean, I first watched this movie in high school. I was punk in high school My punk petaluma history

You had a full hawk You were beating up egg whites And you were I had like a turquoise mohawk Hell yeah I drove a 1987 Chrysler New Yorker I worked at a store called video droid That was like the punk rock video store

In my town where all of the Patrick Laura's dropping left on night We're all of the really intimidating like kind of riot girls who went to Sonoma State worked so it was like all college kids working there and I was I started working there when I was like 14 because I was sort of the

Warren and Empire Records like my name isn't fucking Warren I was Brendan Sexton the 3rd hanging around at the video store refusing to leave until they gave me a job That's how I got my job in my first record store too Hello

It just came in every day And I was like is there a job yet? Is there a job yet? And the guy was like, oh my God, fine, you can fucking work here. Alan Moyle needs to make a movie about us. But it was, I had like a very empire records. I was really lucky that I had that job. Yeah. It's still the best job I ever had.

But I saw Times Square because I had older punk friends. And they were very much like, oh, you're going to love this movie because I already loved all the bands that are on the soundtrack or like a lot of them. And so maybe I'm projecting my own experience onto this movie. but now seeing it even, you know, five years later. It feels to me, and this is very, it's the first thing you see when the film opens is a Robert Stigwood production and these like incredible disco lights. Yeah. And it's like it feels like the soundtrack was primary and the film was secondary. Like the film was the supplemental marketing tool to sell soundtrack.

And it's in a way correct. That's not how it was intended. And if you ask my man, Alan Moyle, this was a gross miscarriage of justice. What happened? Well, it was sort of taken from him. It was taken from him. It became that, you know. It makes sense because who would ever make this movie about this topic?

Yeah. Like, unknown stars. Like, you're sort of looking at it being like, it's a money pit. Like, this is just a money loser. So if you guys haven't seen it, basically the film is about two quite young teenage girls, one who is, you know, a sort of like wayward youth has had a broken, you know, broken homes and is kind of on the streets and is like of questionable mental health, played her name is Nikki Marotta played by Robin Johnson,

who's phenomenal. Is it the first thing she ever did? And then this other girl who is the daughter of like a very wealthy and power. full. I think he's a politician maybe in New York. He's trying to clean up Times Square. He's trying to gentrify. And this is, this is, again, I was not there. I was not even born in neither were you. But, you know, this is a time where Times Square was known for pornographic movie theaters and sex workers and drug, like, that's where you went to score. And it was like, it was quite a, it wasn't the Eminem store in the Sour Patch Kids Warehouse or whatever is there right now. You know, it was. What I wouldn't give. For the Sour Patch Kids Warehouse. to go back, to go back in time. And they meet when they're both placed in the same room at a neurological hospital.

Nikki Marotta fakes seizures to get away from the cops. And Pamela is just like a very disaffected youth who's having struggles with mental health and her fault. They come there to be examined. What's really sad about this movie, which I, you know, now rewatching. I watched also a long time ago. so I was not, my brain was not formed enough to even catch this. But I was like, now having read about it and watching it through the lens,

you see that there's a complete plot line of these girls being in love with each other and having a lesbian relationship that is fully. Fully cut out of the film, except in the parts that it can't. So like you see it hinted at a bunch, but it's never realized. And I think that was Alan Moyle's intention with the original script. Yeah. I think there were scenes cut. I think there was a lot of scenes cut.

Yeah. Which is why the film, to be quite frank, is a bit uneven and choppy and, like, isn't a great feat of cinema. But... Yes. It is... Correct. It is, like, visually and, like... It's tonally a bit odd as well.

Because the plot doesn't make sense. There are... It is, like, well-directed. Totally. It's... It's beautiful. It's beautifully shot. Yeah.

We have a lot of... There's a lot going on in the movie that just, frankly, wouldn't happen in a movie of that scale these days car chases, like things like that. Yeah. Where you're sort of like, oh, this was like a whole production. Like that van flipped over the thing on the freeway. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A different movie making time.

It was shot by James A. Contner. The cinematographer. The cinematographer who also shot William Friedkin's cruising. Yeah. Another great, dirty New York. Incredible. Also, sorry, I should mention Alan Moyle, I owe him several bouquets of flowers because he also wrote and directed Pump of the Volume, one of the greatest films and soundtracks of all time.

That's 1990s, so it doesn't fall in the 80s. But, and he directed Empire Records. And Empire Records, which is a flawless masterpiece. And one of those most perfect films of all time. And those movies are, I saw, I saw it referred to, it couldn't tell you where. We don't have internet. We're cut off of the world in here. We've been cut off.

Those three films were referred to as his quote-unquote pop rebellion trilogy. Times Square. Time Square, pump up the volume, Empire Records. It is interesting because... Alan Weil also wrote this film. He co-wrote it with a woman named Leanne Ungar, who, by the way, is fascinated.

I tried to find more information about her, because I'm deeply fascinated by her, and there's not that much. I'm, like, reading a tape-op interview with her, because she was an engineer. She was a recording engineer, and she did all of, like, not all, but, like, six of Leonard Cohen's records,

like in the 70s and 80s, after this film came out and she also worked with Lori Anderson like she's fucking cool as hell I think they might have been a couple I couldn't get any information about this but they lived in a loft on 42nd Street so close by and they found a diary in a secondhand couch that they bought and it was written by a young seemingly mentally disturbed woman and they were like oh we're going to base a film on this which is so cool ghosts but then you can see obviously he was into music or into the idea at the very least of a DJ. And that young woman

was Courtney Love. It was her diary. Because the DJ in this, who, by the way, I don't know why I didn't remember how hot Tim Curry was. He was so hot. He plays... Well, we need to get into a whole discussion

about Tim Curry. He plays Johnny LaGuardia, who is a radio DJ in a station based in Times Square, who's kind of like the antagonist of the rich politician, whereas he's like the like defender of the

vibe of the current Times Square, you know? He was the Angie Martinez of 1980 New York. He was the voice of New York. He was the voice of New York. I mean, it's so cool. And he is involved in their story and in the coolest way where you're like, wow, this is such a sweet way to tell a story

where like Pamela, prayed by Trini Alvarado, who did have a bit of a movie career. She was little women, I think, most famously. Mom's the first, but whatever, before Greta Gerwig, little woman. But she writes a letter to him because they would sit around and listen to his show and he reads it on the air. And then throughout the story, he's communicating with them over the radio. It's a great shot of her too, when he's on the radio and she has those headphones on, those great, like, big analog headphones. And he's talking to her and it's like pushing in on through the glass of like the penthouse that she lives in with her dad.

And she's talking in the letter, she's talking about being a zombie and feeling like, you know, so disaffected and disconnected. Anyways, that's the... It's just like bandsby listeners, how they feel with you. That's when they listen to me. I'm Johnny LaGuardia coming into their penthouses. Are you guys rich? Send me money. Just kidding.

But if you want to, you can't. And then the rest of the film is basically like a, you know, a girl's gone wild kind of, like rebellious young girls, like, finding themselves. by, you know, chasing their dreams, living in this loft, you know, Pam. There's like these sweet parts where Nikki kind of takes Pamela under her wing and is like, if you ever need me, like, scream my name as, that part made me cry. Scream my name as loud as you can. And she's like, they're screaming each other's names. That's like so beautiful.

And there's this other part where like Pamela is like explaining poetry to her. She's reading, I think she was reading the love song of Jay Alfred Proofrock, which is one of my favorites. Is it Tennyson? Lord Alfred Tennyson? Yeah, I'm educated. And then she explains to her that everything is poetry. Like everything you do is poetry. The way you speak is poetry. And she kind of encourages her to start writing poems. Just how she like gets into being like, that sounds like a song. You should make a song. And that's part of the soundtrack, right? That's endemic to the movie. The original title of the movie was She's Got the Shakes.

Yeah. Which I'm not sure. She's not really portrayed as an alcoholic, although maybe that was part of the thing. The screenplay was written by a third person, though. Like the story was written by Alan Moore and Leon Unger. Jacob Brackman. Jacob Brackman, who, I'm sorry, just a sidebar because this person is fascinating. Went to Harvard. Carly Simon's lyricist.

Yeah, went to Harvard, worked at Newsweek, was a journalist and the New Yorker and Esquire, but then met Carly Simon at Summer Camp in the Berkshires and became, like, one of the co-writer of her lyrics. and he's written the lyrics of like multiple songs that were like are hits for her. Okay. Amazing. Okay. I want to be a lyricist.

Why am I not doing this? You could. I would be the best. I agree. Hit me up. Get in touch. Yeah, get in touch. I can write a hit song.

Easy. I think this movie probably would not have happened, though, back to the Australian Spangali, Robert Stigwood, because he comes in to produce it. I'm presuming that means he funded it. Honey, the big pussy is here. Bob Stigwood, bitch. The thing about Bob Stigwood is he... Let's talk about mother.

I think he was maybe a horrible person. I don't know. He's passed away now, but... My idol, let's go. But he was the... What do I know? What kind of person he was? But he was the impresario.

He was the devil. He did do some things that are like... What did Courtney call him? The... Eval Australian Kim Fowley. evil Australian gay Kim Fowley, I think is important. Kim Fowley was himself probably a little bit gay. Sure.

Yeah. He had made... He wished he was. He had made Saturday Night Fever. Greece and Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club band film. Flop. Which was a flop. Yeah.

But the other two, massive successes. And he was like coming off, I guess, the flop. But maybe the flop hadn't happy. I'm not totally sure. But also, like, for people who don't know what Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club band the film is. Yeah. We should have a quick...

It's important to just point out it is not the Beatles. It's not the Beatles. So it is... Is the BG's covering the Beatles? The BGs and others, Aerosmith, it's multiple random artists. And also, I believe the BG's star in it. I've never seen this. And Steve Martin.

Yeah. Peter Frampton is also in it, and he's on the... Hard to believe that this was a flop. It sounds like a must-see. Because they had the actual Beatles version, and then they didn't want Peter Frampton doing it. It's hard to believe. Why do I have the feeling this is, like, Quentin Tarantino's favorite movie for some reason? It's like something like that.

It's an odd curio. There was some, like, grift that was then upended because it was a double album soundtrack that, like, went platinum. But then, like, the platinum was taken back because so many copies were returned. Oh, my God. Just like Lizzo. I have nothing. I'm just kidding. I don't know.

No comment on that. Okay, but there's something that I think is really funny about Robert Stigwood, having come from, like, musical theater also. Yeah. Yeah, he was a theater. Did hair and Jesus Christ Superstar, like, was involved with those musicals from the ground up. Yeah. And, like, he was a showman, you know.

He realized, like, dramatic productions with music make a lot of money. Like, he kind of, this became his hustle. Yeah. And it's like, he turned, he managed the BJ. as well. Yes. And Alan Gibb. Yeah.

And he also was involved with Evita, starring Madonna. He was a producer on that. Because he's at the scene of every crime. Yeah. His hands dripping with blood. You can trace through, like, because he was also behind the, the Who's Tommy, the movie, the Ken Russell movie, Saturday Night Fever, Greece. He was sort of like, okay, this is what we do.

We package a movie and a soundtrack. Like, people buy the record. right but the songs charted they were like number one songs and Saturday Night Fever actually don't know a lot about it was that was written with the music in mind right I think what happened here

was a bit more unfortunate where he just saw an opportunity to be like oh my god I'm gonna have the new wave he like threw a dart at the wall and was like punk yeah probably didn't use the word punk probably new wave because it was more called new wave back then but like I'm gonna have the new wave Saturday Night Fever this is gonna be a huge hit We're going to make the music all about it.

And Alan Moyle, for his part, was like, this movie wasn't about the music. Like, there was all, like, kind of part a little bit in the backdrop. This movie was about mentally unfit teenagers. Lesbians. Finding each other in Times Square. And not only did Stigwood sort of force him to cut a lot of those lesbian scenes that bolstered that part of the plot, lot. He also like kept being like you have to put shoehorn music in all over it, right? And actually Alan Moyle quit the movie before it was done. And I believe all his hair fell out. He was so stressed

out. Oh, I didn't hear about the cosmetic issues. He had an alopeche, babe, from this nervous breakdown of Robert Stigwood. Imagine Robert Stigwood being like, no, take that out. You know what I mean? Like every day in your ear and you're just trying to make a beautiful cinematic work of art. Naur. Well, that's one of the things that's so strange about the movie to me is because playing devil's advocate as I love to do, putting myself in Robert Stigwood's shoes only. Only identifying with the whole anniversary.

Only identifying with the one gay guy in the story. He thought this was going to be the next Saturday Night Fever, right? And there was an element of like he signed Robin Johnson to his management company to manage her and said he was going to turn her into the female John Travolta. Right. And instead,

imprisoned her and ruined her career. Exactly. We don't talk about it. But like, so when I look at this story, kind of divorced from like what it ended up becoming. And by the way, this movie is a flop. Like this,

it did not happen. So he didn't succeed. I'm like, what about this screenplay, this story did you think would like catch on like wildfire in this way? Why not just hire, if you wanted to do this, you could have hired a screenwriter to write the story of a girl band.

You know, some, there's a such a, there was such a way, exactly, which Fabulous Staines also fucking dropped the ball because also, I mean, sorry, it didn't need to be a woman at the center of the movie. I mean, that was like a choice. Like, if he wanted another Saturday night fever for this kind of music, I just think there were obviously more commercial paths he could have taken. Right. So it's so interesting to me that he went with this. I mean, I'm glad he did for our purposes. Um, but yeah, if you go home out for the, it was It was doomed.

It was doomed. If you go home after this and watch the film and you're like, are you guys stupid, this movie sucks? Which are just trying to explain, which I don't think it sucks. I think it has a ton of redeemable. But I'm still, I'm so glad it exists. I think there's really beautiful moments. To your point, the cinematography is gorgeous. It's so cool that it's all shot in New York.

You don't really see that much anymore, you know. I think the characters are in, Robin Johnson is a fucking. star and it's actually very sad that nothing came of that because she she was a 15 year old girl who was like scouted out while she was ditching school to come be in this movie and a very funny story where apparently the person that scouted her no one knew who he was or what he had to do with the movie right that's how she ended up at the audition disappeared it was like there's magic everywhere it was an angel yeah it's like the same angel that put the diary in the sofa totally somehow brought robin johnson to this movie but she is so mesmerizing she's dropped out gorgeous

She's dropped as gorgeous. She's... So cool. So cool. Has the deepest, Raspiest, Aunt Patty and Aunt Selma voice? Is literally 15 years old. That's what's so crazy is that she was 15 and Trini was 12.

12. She doesn't look 12. She looks a bit older than 12. And they're shooting scenes in strip clubs with Topless Women. Totally. Which, which... It was a different time. It was a different time.

But they're phenomenal. It's a... I think it's a really cool movie. I think it's worth watching. Yes. Is it like, you know, the gods? Father Part 2, no. But it's a great movie. It was interesting to revisit because I remember when I was a teenager, I loved it.

Yeah. And now that you understand, I haven't revisited much. Right. You have a different idea about it. I also find that the two leads have limited chemistry with each other. I don't feel the kind of, and part of that is probably because of the scenes that were cut. Yeah. You do get this like intense friendship and.

And, you know, I love movies that are like two-person cult. It's like kind of a thing for me. Yeah. And I do think it still works on that level because it's, it is such a thing of young girls to like fall in love with another young girl when what it really is that you want to be them, you know? And like I did get that energy a lot, at least from the Pamela character towards the Nikki character because she's so cool and free, you know? I think this is controversial.

I think Trini Alvarado's performance is bad. Interesting. I think she's an uncompelling star. Okay. She's cute in the movie. Yeah. She's quite stoic. She also was 12 years old, so she was a literal child.

But I feel like it could have, we could have had, there are films that you can actually, you can like definitely see the influence of this movie in that came later, like Foxfire. Yeah, I totally got a little foxfire. By the way, Robert Johnson, Robert, Robin Johnson walked so Angelina Jolie could run, period. Yeah. She was very the Angelina. of back then. And that's what they saw in her. Yeah.

And when Angelina Jolie went on to do Foxfire, I bet this was a big reference for her because she got the same haircut. Yeah, that kind of moldy. Yeah, this like mop-ish banged mullet kind of messy. But in Foxfire, I think her chemistry with Jenny Lewis

is like so much more, like you're so much more invested in that relationship for whatever reason. Do you mean Jenny Shumoo? Is it not Jenny Lewis? Oh, and Disney Lewis. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, yes, yes, of course.

And Jenny Shemezu is also in the movie. Jenny Shemizu is who she was dating in real life. Yes. But the kind of romance in Foxfire or the like intense friendship is between Jenny Louis and Julie. Like, you know in the movie, Heavenly Creatures? I love to bring up Heavenly Creatures. That movie is so sensational because the actresses are really portraying like the

histrionic emotions of a teenage girl. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's like they're so obsessed with each other that they're smiling so much that like their face is hurt. You know what I mean? It's like you get this sort of like feverish thing between them. I think this movie can be a little aloof by comparison. I don't mean to be pink pussy hat so early on.

Do it. But Foxfire was written by a woman and directed by a woman. And I think if you want. And there was no Robert Stigwood in the next. Yeah. I think if you want a realistic portrayal and understanding of a teenage girl, it's probably not going to come from like a 35-year-old man and then a gay Australian spengali. You know, I don't know.

But Peter Jackson, honey, did it with definitely creatures. That's true. So there you go. But that was like, Peter Jackson was reading teenage girls with that movie. Yeah. They were, he was, it was not like a flattering portrayal. But it was, to me, screamingly accurate. Okay, but not to be a bitch, but guess who co-wrote the screenplay?

A woman with a vagina. Oh. Fran Walsh. Yeah, of course. I do just kind of feel like, I don't think it's so cut and dry, but I think like usually when you get a portrayal, especially of a teenage girl, it's so specific, that knocks you out, it's going to be written or informed by another woman. Because just men can't understand what it's like to be a teenage girl.

It's a specific mental illness that only women have experienced. It is also like, I was thinking of. about Robin Johnson and the story about what happened to her, which is essentially that Stigwood signed her to his management. He was going to turn her into the next Travolta. She was not allowed to do any to work with competing studios. Right. So she wasn't able to go up for other movies.

Her contract with RSO, Stigwood's company, ran out. And by that point, she was sort of like old news. You know, like the buzz had sort of left her. She was in that... She was in a couple of other things. She had a memorable moment in After Hours. One of my favorites. She's like the punk chicken after hours.

She looks so cool. She's in that movie splits that I've not seen, but people kind of like it. It's also kind of a new wavy movie about a girl band. She had a TV series also. She was on Guiding Light. Well, hello. For I think a year, maybe two years. Good for her.

She was also on the season one of Miami Vice. Yes. I think just one episode. Yeah, one episode. She has such an incredible face and presence. And, like, she's sort of a naturalism because she's sort of being herself. Yeah. She's from New York.

Totally. She's from Brooklyn. She has that accent. And then she, I think she ended up becoming a traffic reporter, I believe. Yeah. In Los Angeles. Towards the end of the 80s, it seems like she sort of gave up on acting on screen. She became a broadcaster.

Maybe it worked out for her. Maybe she's happier. Maybe she's happier. Maybe it would have ruined her life. She could be the queen of Scientology by now had things gone differently. But I think when we're talking about, oh, it's sad that she didn't have a bigger career. It's because she's so talented. Yeah.

Like, she's phenomenal in the movie. Her singing voice is awesome. And we'll get into that because that does play into the soundtrack. So you look at someone like that and you're like, oh, you could have had it all. But it's like, would she have wanted it all? It's a different conversation. But worth watching just to see her performance. which you cannot unsee.

The woman that plays the like sort of like Nikki's handler. What, at the beginning of the movie? She's kind of throughout the movie like, okay, yeah. Her name is Anna Maria Horstford. She's like maybe only if you're like really into movies

like Friday, next Friday, how high in the Wayans Brothers television program, you would recognize her, but she's like an actress that's been in all those movies. But she's quite young in this. And I was like, the whole time I was like, where do I know her from? That's so funny.

Yeah, she's sort of like the court appointed. Like, she's with her in the ambulance in the beginning, like, takes her, like, no smoking in here. But then she's like with, you know, anyways, I just thought that was, that was like a cool piece of casting. Okay, can we just, like, and leading back into the music.

Yeah. A little bit of more, a little more lore about Robert Stigwood. Please. Just because this. You're obsessed with Robert. I know I am. But this is a rock and roll podcast, okay? This sure is.

And we need to, like, firmly place ourselves in the period and time of who was pulling the strings here exactly how powerful he was. Because also if you go watch the movie, you're like, oh, it's this sort of like dirty, grimy little low-budget, like punk movie. And it's like, this man also released the soundtracks,

got the rights and released the soundtracks for fame and the Star Wars movies. Oh, my God. Which sold a lot because, like, young boys and girls who went to see Star Wars were obsessed with the Star Wars music and they were running out and buying those records.

I mean, also, I don't know if we've been clear enough that Saturday Night Fever was like a smash... It hit the number one on the charts in every country. Like, it was like the highest selling album, not just Soundtrack album.

It was huge. RSO as like a label has some distinction if you look it up that it's the only record label in history to have like the number one albums on the charts six times in a row

that took over like an entire year or something. So he was very rich. Yeah. He did well. To fund this, to your point, little punk movie. But so he, in addition to being a producer and like a music mogul,

he managed cream the BG's Eric Clapton and Andy Gibb. And he was also the booking agent for The Who. Yeah. And in 1980, which is the year this movie came out, he was sued by the BGs for $200 million over mismanagement. He countersued for $310 million for defamation. It was settled out of court. So you don't know what the...

But by all accounts, he lost. Okay. And the BGs won. And it's still considered to this day to be the largest legal. victory in history by a band against their own label. Wow. And then, afterwards, they made up and they stayed on the label and kept working with him. What?

That's, I'm sorry, it's so drugs to me. It's so rock and roll. There's just like, oh, it's money. There's like a big Beege's documentary. I didn't see it. Everyone talked about it. I didn't see it. I need to watch it.

But also another documentary, there's all these documentaries around Robert Stigwood. I don't know if there's any about him. His producing partner in film was Alan Carr, who was insane. Yeah. Another insane gay guy. There's a great documentary about him that everybody should look up and watch. But Stigwood was part of what would become coined as the Velvet Mafia, which, of course, this is like peak interest of mine. Which was a term coined by Stephen Gaines.

The Velvet Mafia was like a conspiracy theory, essentially. The cabal of evil gay multimillionaires controlling all of culture. and they included like Sandy Gallen, David Geffen, Calvin Klein, oh my God, who else? What's his name? Dion's husband, von Furstenberg. Whose name I always forget?

Who ran Paramount Pictures? Anyway, there was a whole Velvet Mafia cabal. Georgio Santangelo, Halston, even, Steve Rubel from Studio 54. and Robert Stigwood was part of that. Barry Diller. Barry Diller.

That queen. I just... I'm getting sued after this. Top gay billionaires. Yeah, there you go. Peter Thigwood was around at the time. When Robert Stigwood died, his obituary said that for a time he was the most powerful tycoon in the entertainment industry.

Yeah. That's big. And even with all that, couldn't make this work. And it's because he owned the record label that distributed his own artist albums and film soundtracks

and he controlled publishing rights. So not since Hollywood's golden days had so much power and wealth been concentrated in the hands of one person. I love that I was like, come talk about the Times Square. He's the devil. Come out of the Times Square soundtrack

and you're like that meme where it's like the gun and it's like, we're not watching that flex. We're talking about Robert Sigwood for two hours. I got into Robert Stigwood and I was like, now we're cooking with gas. That's why we're doing this soundtrack. I thought you were going to be most excited about

Alan Moyle's made for Canadian television film, Man in the Mirror, the Michael Jackson story, which I began watching yesterday and I cannot wait to go back and finish it because it is insane. It also looks nothing like Pump Up the Volume, Empire Records, or this.

It's a documentary. No, it isn't. Excuse me? It's a dramatization. It's a Canadian TV movie. Okay. It's a Canadian TV movie. It just goes to show you. Like, sometimes...

It's called range, honey. It's called range. It's called budgetary range. Right. It's called range of budgetary constraints. I think you should have 10 Oscars for pump up of the volume personally, but the world is not just in the way it should be. Let's just paint a quick picture of... Well, I think to go back to what I was saying earlier about how this was like a gateway for so many people,

our friend Courtney Love being one who was like told me that she was so thrilled that we're talking about it, but that she had like somehow got her hands on this when she was quite young and like through her stepfather. And it like changed her life because she didn't know about any of these fans. You know, like, and I think that's because it's important to like, think about like the popular music in 1980 was as such the number one album of the year was pink floyds the wall the rest of the things that were like in popular culture was donna summer the beejys bob seeker billy joel jackson brown barbara strison keny you know what i'm saying like it wasn't cool no and the only kind of like crossover moment there was two one was big and it never is

One was big, Calm Me, to your point about American Joke, not American Juggalo. Yeah. American Jillo. Call Me My Blondie was a huge radio single in 1980, and so that was like the closest new wave crossover. And also like Cars by Gary Newman hit like number 12 on the charts, which didn't hit the number 10, but still pretty big for a Gary Newman song. But past that, it was like Funky Town. You know what I mean? Won't you take me to?

Wow. Funky Town. And 1980 is still like the dredges of disco are still there. And then you have like Captain and Teneal and classic rock. Like it wasn't any, like punk and New Wave and post-punk were not. It's not how you walk in the urban outfit or stay and there's Joy Division T-shirts, you know? Yeah. So but so much had come out.

And in 1979 is sort of like patient zero of post-punk, right? Like that's when Joy Division's closer comes out. The Curious debut record. Yeah, talking heads remain in light. The Clash. The Clash had made more of a mark, I think, by then. No, Joint Division Closer is 1980. Sorry, it's the first Joint Division album that comes out,

Unknown Pleasures, that comes out, 979. Excuse me, I misspoke. Everyone, calm down. I know, that people were, like, running to comment. How dare is she? I saw someone post yesterday that they're like, I tell people who aren't online enough, go and touch keyboard. I know.

Whatever. You guys get what I'm saying. The point being is that there was all this incredible music, but it was very new. And like, as far as the British of it all or the UK of it all went, it was coming in on import. It wasn't even released in America. And that makes it so strange to the soundtrack too, because it's like, it was really putting a lot of faith in the fact that this was next. And it kind of was. But it was, but it, you know. Maybe not massively commercially. But even going so far as to like put Lou Reed. on the soundtrack. A song that was not new at the time. No.

You know, like that had been around. It was sort of like, there's a lot happening in the soundtrack that I think is really interesting. When we go song by song, you'll see it. Yeah. And there are really strange outliers, which feel kind of nakedly commercial to me, like putting the BG's, the Andy Gibb, who is it who's on the soundtrack? There's some fucking BG song in here. Gibb. He had to shoehorn

a Gibb on here. He was like, you simply must have one Gibb or else I'm not... You know what? I'm going to say something. That song is not good. Oh, I was going to say something completely opposite. You love the Gibb song? Yeah. I was like, first, I was like, why is this here? I was like, this is so corny, and this was like

the single from the soundtrack as well. And they really push it. When Robin Gibb's voice comes in on that song, it is heaven. This is how I feel about it. The Bejys did have, they had something. This is how I feel about the Desmond Child and Roche. Yes, I love that song too.

I love that song. I was like, what? I love this song. It's a very eclectic soundtrack. It's like there's songs that shouldn't work in here and they do. Yeah. Because they're so evocative of the time period, I think. It's interesting.

Like, again, Alan Wise didn't really have that much punk or new wave in mind, you know? But they put it all in. The music within, the actual film works so well. Like, I'm thinking... It works okay. Well, like... It's a bit of a mishmash.

Yeah. It feels like they were like something for everyone, you know? Here's Susie Quatro. It's like you have some straight up rock and roll songs. Susie Quattro makes so much sense to me though because given the time period

and given like, okay, the runaways have already kind of imploded by now so you couldn't have probably gotten a runaway song to save your life if you wanted to because they were in some like litigious hell of like whatever Kim Fowley woe for them. But Susie Quattro was their hero.

You know, like, Susie Quattro was kind of the pre-punk girl that inspired. So that made total sense to me. But then you have, like, the ruts and, like, that's just, like, straight up punk. Straight up, by the way, we're broken up by this point. Yeah. There's, like, a ska song in there that I had to do a double take. It's not really a ska song, but it's

Pretty Boys by Joe Jackson. And it does have, like, a little, like, little scoff feeling. A little pick it up, pick it up. But he's the guy that did, Is she really going out with him? Of course, of course. But this, to me, the song is Scott. That song bangs.

That's on bangs. That's on bangs. Scott was made in this style. Don't look me in my eyes and tell me that song doesn't bang. It's really good. It's really good. Yeah. Some of the music is diagetic in a way that I really love.

Like, I love the scene where Nikki is breaking out of the hospital and carrying her boombox around and playing I want to be sedated. Okay. I think it's cool. That's why that scene is in the movie because it's cool. Yeah, of course. Why would she be playing a boombox so that everyone knows where she has and can come grab her?

She was being chased and she was blasting a boombox hiding in hallways. And it's like... Remember she turns it off when she hides. She turns off when she has once. But it's like... She blast it because she's a fucking devil. Don't care, babe. Yeah, she's like, fuck you.

Yeah. It works with the character. She's not a spengali. She's not like a mysterious criminal. It was counterproductive for what she was at. attempting to do in that scene. A lot of the things that she does are counterproductive to what she's attempting to do throughout this film. I would have threatened her to be a little more sly, I think.

A little more subtle. But I think that it was just like a cool punk thing to do in a movie is how the character with a boombox blasting the Ramones, barging into the insane asylum to rescue her future girlfriend. Okay, first of all, it's not insane asylum. It is a hospital for potential neurological disorders. Do you want to go there? Do you want to go there? I don't know.

Will it start a gorgeous adventure with my new best friend? It didn't look very lush to me. No, it didn't. They used rock hard. I guess we just go in order. So they rock hard by Susie Quattro, which you questioned a little bit. But I think it's cool. Do you know that's from Susie Quattro's seventh studio album?

Johnny LaGuardia plays it for them. He, like, dedicates it to them. And, like, that's when they're the Sleez sisters and they are rocking hard. I thought that was pretty cute. Rock hard, Susie Quattro, also, what I thought was really funny and very, like, there's a fairy tale quality. to this movie a little bit of like things don't necessarily add up

but he, Johnny LaGuardia dedicates the song to them and then the song is playing on the radio in the next three scenes as if it's playing over and over and over again which I thought was funny. You know, it's like then they're like, they're washing the windshields on the street and the song is still playing.

Yeah. Like it's just like, it's not a montage. It's just like always on. It's just always on. Yeah. And I also love that shot. And this is when Alan Moyle, it's like, really is like, okay, the filmmaker is here. Like, it shows

someone who appears to be like a security guard or a maintenance guy like on top of like the Empire State Building wearing headphones, rocking out to the Susie Quattro song and like the wee hours of the morning when he's like getting to work

and like overlooking the whole city and you're just like, what? Like it was very like a moment where it's like all of New York is like listening to this. It was so beautifully shot. I think they were trying to get that across, right? That like Times Square was this like special place that all its denizens

were sort of connected. And perhaps the connective tissue was this radio station and this one, you know, shining light of a Tim Curry, Johnny LaGuardia speaking into the night. Hello and welcome. Hello and welcome. I thought the way that he portrayed Times Square was really cool. Like in the beginning, like when he's, when it's like just filming the people on the street. Like, it's, I read some reviews that said it wasn't gritty enough. And I was like, they show a guy nodding out and his friend like waking him up. I'm like, this was pretty, I thought it was pretty.

But that's how New York is. Like when it's too gritty, it's not real. It's like people in New York are friendly, you know? It's like they're like dancing to the music down the street and guys are yelling at them and stuff. And like some of the guys are creepy and probably do want to rob them. But it's like, oh, whatever. It's like they're kind of living in this like delirium of Times Square.

I thought the movie portrayed it in a way that was like very affectionate but also real. Yeah. It did have sort of a nice job. I think the point of it, I mean, given the Alan Moyle and Leanne Ungar were obviously like lived in that area too and more like artists or whatever, it's like that like if you're part of it, you're part of it, you know? And we've seen that in other films, right?

It's like these girls are especially Nikki. It's like she's part of the fabric of this. She's one of these people, you know? so they're not scared because they're just like of this, you know, of these streets at this point. But also Pamela is like kind of like a little rich girl. And so like there's that that like it's like her first experience diving into the side of New York in a way. And she's very like kind of enchanted with it. She's waking up from her zombie light.

Yeah. I think putting talk on the town on here is really cool. Again, it's like kind of unexpected. this song had only just come out that year? I believe so. There were a lot of 1980 releases in here or even some that were like 81 and I was like, was the song first released on this?

Yeah, because the Pretender's album came out in January of 1980, the first one. So yeah, it's from then. But they had already hit number one in the UK with Brass in Pocket. So they were like trending. Again, this is my like galaxy brain connecting red yarn. Angelina Jolie

In Gia Brass and Pocket Also same hair Like I feel like this was I'm putting my chips on like this movie Was a huge touchstone for her Also knowing that she was punk when she was younger Like I feel like she brought this into every film

Being like hey Like oh we're shooting Gia and it takes place in New York In the 80s have you ever seen Times Square? Yeah I feel like that's what she was doing I think it is one of those films that while it wasn't successful It is like a lot of people return to it or inspired a lot of things

further than maybe what we think. And definitely, this is something I kind of wanted to like put forth a theory about too. It's like you mentioned like it's interesting that he, Robert Stick would bet the farm on like this is the next disco or whatever.

And while it really wasn't you know, like however what did end up happening through little things like this was that it reached a generation that did make the next disco, which was grunge. Do you know what I mean?

Wow. It did, right? Like, it introduced... New Wave means nothing to you. I think New Wave was great. But New Wave wasn't, like, on the cover of Time magazine. Or maybe it was. Again, I wasn't around.

But... It's just so funny because it... The way that captured the culture of, like, it becoming, like, a mainstream moment, I think it's very interesting that this sort of delivered to a generation that would then, and create alternative music. Right. Based on the punk into new wave. He could have gone pop.

He could have gone metal. Yeah. And I think either of those things may have been more successful than going in this direction. Yeah. Even though this was cooler, in my opinion.

I wonder if metal was just too far away from his sensibilities. Like this is at least like some of this stuff is pretty poppy. He was too gay for metal. Yeah, he was like, I can't do that. This song is like, it brings like a very feminine

Talk of the Town Romance Yeah You know Like Girl Rocker Chrissy Hind has this like Gossamer pop voice

That's just like so dreamy And it's such a beautiful Kind of sad song Yeah That to me Really reflects the movie I understand why it's on the soundtrack

It feels like it's so in line With what the movie's trying to do And also like I do think they did a lot of literalism with these songs because like the Sleez sisters and like Pamela being missing because her father is so wealthy and powerful

is literally the talk of the town. Right. We are showing all these like bus ads and it's like the whole city is talking about how we need to find this girl. So it is, they are and then... You're probably right. I'm taking a more estoteric approach.

I think they're both right. I think it's both correct. Because for me it's them being, it's Nikki being like, we're going to be famous. Yeah. Everyone's going to be talking about us. I think it's both those things.

Because Chrissy Hines said when she wrote that song, it was about a fan. There was a guy who had come to all of their gigs. She never spoke to him, but she would see him all the time. And one time she almost went up to him to say something, but then chickened out and didn't. And she left him standing in the snow. And she said that it, like, haunted her. So she wrote this song being like, what if we were in love? Wow.

Which is so, like, sad, but beautiful. Yeah. You know? And pissed like a cloud. I send it out in flat of it. That's so interesting. I didn't know that about that song. I think on both levels

that works really well. Like it's, again, a bit literal, but also, like you said, a bit more esoteric. It shows up in the film as played, again, dietic, but it's played by Johnny LaGuardia on the radio,

which is why it's so smart to have a radio DJ. Same old scene by Roxy Music, God tear, fucking song. My favorite song on this soundtrack, maybe. Opens and closes the movie. doesn't close the movie. It's like goes over the end credits. But it's the first song you hear, which is such a great. Like, I do feel like it really sets up the energy of the film and nothing lasts forever. You're right. This is a bit of a schizophrenic soundtrack because it's,

it's not punk or new wave or it's kind of a lot of what was going on outside of the mainstream. Mm-hmm. Right? Like, because what would you say about Roxy Music in 1980? Like, what place in the culture, would you say that they... They're so singular to me. Yeah, exactly. Like, they're, like, the secret third thing of, you know... Right. But, you know, they've been around for a while by 1980.

Are they big in America? Not really. There's something... And it also... It's a song that really blurs genres. Like, it has, like... It has, like, the drum machine and the sort of electronic pulse. Yeah.

But it also has, like, that saxophone at the... the end that's it all it's very evocative of like alleyways and like the city is sort of well like in the movie at the beginning it's playing when nicky like ducks into that alleyway and starts shredding on the guitar it plugs in her yeah it's like with what amp i don't even remember her plugging into an app but she had like a like a farmer's market card she was like hauling the And she busts in the headlights of the like... Oh, this your boss's car? Corvette Stingray or whatever it is.

So great. Yeah, I think this song is... This song to me is like absolutely giving... Could be on a John Hughes soundtrack. Fully. Right? You know, it has that sort of like... Like, pomp and circum...

Not pomp and circumstance, but that's like emotional, like, over the top. Like, it's cool. I guess the bigger single from that... This comes off the album, Flesh and Blood. which had a bigger single in Over You, which was obviously a gorgeous song. This was an inspired choice. It's a very inspired choice.

It also has some literalism happening with the lyrics where it's like young love can be so mean. How will we survive the same old scene? You know, it has like these sort of... It works. It works. Another very inspired choice, down in the park by Tubeway Army.

Okay. Yeah, now it's... It's Patrick's Time to Shine. I love this song. Incredible. Which I always just call Gary Newman. Well, it's funny. Because it is basically Gary Newman.

I guess it was credited to Gary Newman, but when it came out in 1979, it was the band. He's just always played the song and kind of adopted it and all of his solo stuff. And it wasn't a hit when it came out. So I'm not really sure like the genius of the guy who helped with this soundtrack was Bill Oaks, I think, was his name. like the producer, he had more of a hand in choosing the actual music. So I can't see Robert Stig

would be like, no, we must have Tubeway Army. But that's why it's such an interesting soundtrack because there's so many sounds from that time that are all converging in this collection of music.

And this one to me is so funny because it's like, this was one of, if not like the first, as far as I know, like completely synthesized keyboard-based electronic Gary Newman songs.

Yeah, is that true? I don't know. Which went on to define his sound ever after, you know? And it's a song that's sort of like in concordance with that. It's about like the machines taking over. Yeah. You know, it's about cyborgs going down and playing games with like the last living mortal humans and torturing them for entertainment, which is the most punk hilarious kind of like J.G. Ballard subject matter that you could put into.

a fucking pop song in this time period I feel like I could lightly connect to something that goes on in the film which is like kind of subtle and maybe maybe this is part of

what got cut out or maybe it's not but like they have this whole vendetta against televisions which if you think about at the time televisions were the social media of the day

like you would say oh that rots your brain that's making you stupid and there's this whole thing where they throw televisions out windows just really fucking cool but they're obsessed with terrestrial radio

but they're obsessed with trustual radio. Yes, correct. And it's like, it's almost like, oh, the machines are taking over. They don't want that they're trying to drive out the humanity. They're trying to clean up Times Square. They're trying to gentrify us. I don't know if we're like really overreating the Tubeway Army song, but I think it's an amazing song. It's the technophobic song, if you will. And it plays, which is he was right. It's really edgy, cynical, bad attitude. The world is going to shit. And it plays while Nikki's like a lone drinking in the street. Like, fuck everything.

Yeah. Like, it's a very, it's like a very beautiful part of the movie. She flees their loft because they get into an argument where she wants to be famous. And Pamela's like, why do you care about being famous? You're being so stupid. Like, and she's like, oh, you think I'm stupid? Like, it's like this huge argument they have. Right.

And she's trying to like, like, Pamela, I think I guess the premise is like Pamela, who's kind of always had everything and been like, It doesn't, like, she doesn't need the validation of being famous. And, like, Nikki, who's, like, never had anyone or anything is, like, I need this one thing. You know, like, I can be a person. It's just funny to me that in this movie that has all this, like, she's shredding on the guitar, has rock music. Yeah. You know, there's, like, the sort of punk music throughout.

It's like, when things get dark. Then, like, the synthesizer comes in, like, the roll-in synths start squealing, and you're like, uh-oh. This is like when things are going to take a bad turn, you know? It's like the Darth Vader shows up. It's part of what makes Robin Johnson's performance so incredible. Is that one moment where she like leaves and then she comes back and she hears Johnny in the crash pad and she's crying? It's so good. The music that plays during that part is the Patty Smith song.

Oh, God. Yeah. Yeah. While Johnny LaGuardia is leaving and trying to get Pamela to. come with him. Right. And Nikki, like, paints her face with the black mask and then hits the streets, dives in the river. I wondered if we were doing that today.

I literally thought about it. I was like, should we paint the bandit mask? The garbage bag. But, like, I mean, talk about a fucking song, man. I forever, I associate that song with this movie when I hear it anywhere. And again, an older song. This song came out in 1976, you know, on Radio Ethiopia. But it works so well.

It's what she's burning the poetry. Yeah, burning the poetry. I mean, diving into, is that the East River? Or where she's diving into what body of water that was? It was the McCarren pool. She went from Times Square down to... Movie logic, you know. Sure.

But yeah, it's really powerful. And I guess, like, some of that makes sense to me, too. Like, the Patty Smith and the Talking Heads moment, which we'll talk about in a second. But those are New York bands, you know, those are very, like, fundamentally New York. like gritty you know examples of the city or whatever so I could see maybe that's why they put them on here

man they really went for it with this because it is a double one okay you like this song help me exclamation point by Robin Gibb featuring Marcelo Detroit I didn't want to like it and I know that it was I'm sure that Alan Moyle didn't want the song in the movie I'm sure he was like get this Gibb out of here this was like some cronyism to the max you know also like

lead and only single. I'm also like, okay, Stigwood is being sued by the BGs, and he's putting this song in. It's like he doesn't give a fuck. He's like, he knows he's going to make money off this. So he's lining his pockets,

even though he's lining the pockets of the people that are suing him. It's what a time. I have like a weird sidebar about Marcella Detroit just because I found it because she was also on a song of Dirty Dancing.

She co-wrote the 1977 Eric Clapton song, Laydown Sally. And more importantly, she was in Shakespeare's sister with Chavon Fahey from Banana Ramah. I just think...

That's cool. It is cool. He outshines her on the song. I don't love this song and I especially, I will say, I don't love how they use it because if you'll remember, this song comes on right after Nikki has her triumphant concert

in the middle of Times Square. Oh, it's so wrong. The fans come and she's like being like fetid and like she's absconding into the night. and then they're playing Help Me by Robin Gibb? That is not the right song to be playing right there. I was, like, pissed at Robert Stigwright. Alan Moyle, my hair was also falling out.

I was like, get this shit out of here. They could have put it in somewhere else. They could have put it in the Clio Club somewhere, you know? Yeah. But it's like, when Robin Gibbs' voice comes in on that song, if you do not find it completely irresistible and pop perfection, it is truly like, listen, you can go forward. fuck yourself.

Are we fighting? No, I'm talking to your listeners. That's your imaginary reply, guys. They didn't say anything. This is not a Disco sucks podcast when Mr. Velvet Mafia is here. I do not think disco sucks. I simply, I feel this should not be here. Hold on.

Let me just pull it. I just want to remind myself. No, baby, you're wrong. I'm right. This is absolutely like Robert Stigwood using his evil nefarious powers for evil and like sticking this, putting a blight on this soundtrack. You don't know what he was going through. If you listen to this song in isolation.

Then you can enjoy it. But also, I think the production of it, like, there's something really funny about this soundtrack where it's hard for me to not like things that are on this soundtrack because they're so embedded in the movie. Like, it's such a soundtrack movie. Yeah, yeah. And it does like the little moments of disco or punk or. the ska origins, like all of that, it just feels like, oh, that's New York in 1980.

Yeah, I guess to be generous, like, obviously, like, we talked about it with the charts. Like, there was very much still a creeping disco situation happening in 1980. Well, I'm more like the life during wartime talking heads moment. That's easy, though. That song was already a hit. It's one of the greatest talking head songs. Of course. It's worked so well when there's...

This ain't no disco. This ain't no disco. Peanut butter. When they're like in the streets dancing to it. And again, it's so great. It's so great. Like, it's such a great moment. I love it.

And they let it play for a long time. Yeah. And it's just like. And what I love about that in the movie is for it to be playing on the radio makes sense because you're like, in the same with I want to be sedated. Yeah. Where you're like, those songs would have been on the radio. Yeah.

Especially like during one time and came out in 1970. Yeah. You know, it would absolutely be it. Yeah, I just, I love, that's like such a joyful montagey part of like, they're really in their groove of like, okay, we... It's like a capsule of the whole movie in one scene. Yeah. Because it's them like dancing down the street and Times Square surrounded by like vagrants and weird hustlers and they're in front of the porno theaters and the strip clubs. And it's like it all happens in this one scene.

Yeah, it's so great. And it's them having fun. They're free. They're liberated. This is them like at the peak of their life. We're doing it. They're wearing their weird. clothes that they found in the, like,

bags in the loft that they keep, like, coming out and more and more unhinged outfits. I love the costume. It's amazing. It's so, and that, like, their romance is, like, filtered in through the wardrobe. Yeah. You know, like, because when she escaped, she's wearing the pajamas. Yeah, she's very, like, um, buttoned up. And, like, the robe. And has long hair.

And then, like, the next scene, it cuts to them, and she's given Pammy her leather jacket and hat over the pajamas, and she's wearing the pajama robe over her punk clothes. And you're like, They're like switching outfits. I thought there must have been a cut scene because I'm like, she must have cut Pammy's hair. Yeah. Tammy's hair is an issue throughout the movie.

Is it all of a sudden short? And I'm like, did we not want to discuss how that happened? Pretty Boys we kind of talked about. There are lyrics in the song, Maybe I Should Get a Facelift, which really resonated for me. It's Evergreen. Yeah. Maybe I should get a facelift start again. Maybe I should trade my pointed shoes in it.

It actually is not in any scene. I don't know why they put it on the soundtrack. Interesting. Maybe it's in a cut scene. Joe Jackson was big. Is she really going out with him? That was a commercial choice to put him on the soundtrack. And then later stepping out his biggest song of all times.

Also the cure, which is on the soundtrack and not in the film. No, the cure is in the film. Aren't they? No. Isn't it in that part where they're... I was waiting the whole time. Isn't it in the part where they run from the... When they're doing the card stuff?

No. Oh, it's not in that part. And it should be. Yeah. It's such a fun caper of a song. I'm glad it's on the soundtrack. It's an incredible song. Weird.

There's a couple songs on the soundtrack that are not in the film. Yeah. Well, I remember not seeing Joe Jackson. Was Take This Town by Ecstasy? Yes. This is my favorite one. My favorite story about the soundtrack. Okay.

Tell me. Because this song was made exclusively for this soundtrack. Oh, I don't think I knew that. That's why it only appears on one of their, like, greatest hits compilations or whatever. It's not on streaming. It was only released on the soundtrack. It's brilliantly produced.

Like, it sounds so good. When the melodic break hits, it's like... Yeah, it's a great song. It's a really, really good song. And, like, the band told a story that when the movie premiered in New York, they had come over from England, and they were, like, completely starstruck because they were seated directly behind Andy Warhol.

And, like, they were like, this is, like, such a huge moment for us. like being part of this movie. And then the song only plays on the transistor radio in the movie and it sounds like shit. It's like the radio is like going in and out of like reception. It's crazy to get a song penned for a film

and then use it in that capacity. Yeah. That's crazy. It's really crazy. And like it's in it's when she's in the van, when Nikki's in the van going to the mental facility. When she smokes a cigarette, the lady's like, no smoking.

And it's just like, this song playing and like it's and they were just like what like that's what that was all for it's a great song so but if you listen to it everyone should go listen to it it's such a good song yeah yeah it's a really good song playing it on youtube and i was like damn yeah and it's only on youtube so annoying um well andy partridge said that he wanted it to sound as if sailors were singing along to it it has this sort of dogs howling at a police car quality to it's also kind of very time square right yeah like the sale like fleet week has descended upon time square you know. And we discussed I want to be sedated, which, you know.

Yeah, it plays a few times in the movie. The Ramones are now very extremely famous, but like I still want to stress in 1980. It's like not every Tom Dick and Sally knew who the fuck the Ramones were. No. But if you hear it, it's played in such a way where you're like, okay, Nikki is a punk. Totally. You know? And she's costumed as a punk. I mean, the first time we see her, she's wearing a leather jacket with badges all over it and her little leather hat.

Film School 101, Nikki is a punk. She's playing, I want to be stated by their own. Yes, exactly. Over and over again. And there's that line where he goes, the doctor is like, say Methodist Episcopal. And she says, take a piss, you asshole. It's so good.

And remember Pammy says, take a piss, you asshole. That's poetry. Yeah. Damn dog. All right. Let's get into it. Speaking of written

specifically for this film. This is Robert Stigwood doing what Robert Stigwood does. This is a music... This is musical theater, honey. This is an original number. I can lick your face. I can bite it too.

When she reads it, like a poem, all serious? It's meant to be a poem. And that's where Pammy says sounds more like a song. This was written by two men, Billy Mernet and Jacob Brackman. It's a very weird song, and I'll be really weird song.

really honest with you, it's not very punk at all. It has like a weird... It's like cheap tricks, kind of. It has that like stomp clap. Yeah. I'm a damn dog now. Her performance of it in the Cleo Club, though, is so cute. She's playing the guitar.

She got her cute little outfit on. Her jacket. And they never mentioned who the band is behind her. The blonde dolls is what they call them in the movie. Which I have an interesting side note about that in a few songs. Yes. It's a really cute song. Yeah. For the movie and for the movie only.

It's super cute. Yeah, yeah. A very pivotal scene of this film is when the Slees sisters, which is what Pammy and Nikki have dubbed themselves. S-L-E-E-Z. S-L-E-E-E-Z. No silent E. No silent E. Demand to come to the radio station and perform live.

Yes. And they are performing their song, Your Daughter Is. one directed at Pammy's father. Uh-huh, which is the most pussy riot song on the soundtrack. Do you want to talk a bit more about it? They're like, they're speaking, it's a lot of spoken

word, confrontational spoken word. And Nikki says, can you feel the pain yet? Faggot social worker? And remember the woman I mentioned in the beginning, the actress, she's literally speaking directly to her. I think the first line of the song is Miss Rosie Washington and the name of the social worker.

yelling at the doctor from the mental hospital. They're like, they're talking to Mr. Pearl. She says, Mr. Pearl, I hate you with every rotten tooth in my head. Black eyes to you, fucking Nazi. This is actually quite a political song because I think I didn't quite realize it

the first time I saw because I was maybe just like, oh my God, I can't believe they're saying those words. But if you actually pay attention, the premise is that like, they are taking to task the adults, particularly Pammy's dad, like, I've heard you say these words about other people. Like, you have judged, it ties back into the Times Square. The chorus is a series of slurs.

Yeah. And it ties back into like, clean up Times Square. These people are, excuse me, these people are lesser or whatever. And she's using these words being like, I've heard you say as, well, guess what? I'm one of them. I'm an outsider too. I'm what you consider. less than. Yeah. Little

Rich white girl from New York is the N-word. You would never see this in a film now. It would never. For good reason. It cannot be repeated on this podcast. But they were they did record it and put it on the soundtrack. I like when she's talking shit to the doctor and

she calls him fat buns. I don't remember the line is but she's like, you like that fat buns? And I'm like, that lovely Jewish doctor man from the earlier scene? I'm like, did she adlib this. Fat buns.

It feels like an ad lib on a nonsense bar. Fat buns is a really good name to call someone. Fat buns. And then at the end, Nikki dedicates the entire song to Brian Jones,

which is such an interesting flourish. And all the other dinosaurs. Like, oh, the rolling turns are over, honey. We've moved on, you know? It's cool. You guys got to see it to really understand.

Yeah. We're not really giving it justice, I don't think. It's something that will, the kids will say it didn't age well. Yeah. But you kind of had to be there.

I wasn't there. And you weren't there either. We weren't born. It was a different time. Language was different. If we're keeping it 100, we, none of us were there. Babylon's Vernon is on here. I think you referenced this a little bit earlier.

The Ruts, they're an English sort of reggae influenced punk band. This song, I mean, someone, whoever was curating the soundtrack, and I did a lot of research and I couldn't find that much about it, but I'm sure someone, will get in touch and be like, it was me, must have had like a pretty firm finger on the pulse of what was happening in the UK. Because a lot of these songs were popular in the UK. They weren't unknown. Like, this was a top 10 single in the UK in 1979. The lead singer, Macaumone died in 1980 of a heroin overdose.

This song plays at the off, again, like, they use as much as they can. So they're like, oh, we're at the radio station, a song is like, because we're at a radio station. It's really like... It's a vibe though. It makes sense. It's like serious guitar punk. It's like... Oh, it's awesome.

It's funny because my punk... Balana's burning. Babelon is burn. The song's rules. Yeah. When I go back in time with punk... Like when I got super into punk in the 90s, and then I went back in time with it,

I got into like, the Ramones, the Velvet Underground, the clash, whatever. I didn't really know that this punk sounds even went back that far. Right. Like, because it's so. like what rancid and bad religion were doing.

You didn't know about the Cockney rebels or whatever, yeah. I mean, I did, actually. But I think I thought they were more contemporary or something. Yeah. It's fun. It adds like a vibe to it. Just throw a punk song in there. I think they did a good job because it makes perfect sense.

Yes, the Times Square, like, edgy radio DJ would play this song. So it's like, it's not out of place. It's just like, yeah, they're playing it. And can we talk about Johnny LaGuardia for a second and Tim Curry in the same? movie. So you think Tim Curry's hot. In this role. I know a lot of people think Tim Curry's hot. He was sort of a sex symbol. Yeah.

To me, he's just such a mugger. Like, he has, like, this muggy mug. You mean a monger? The face. You mean, in today's parlance, he brutally framed-mogged the other people in the scene? I was more like, it's getting muggy

in here, sister, but yeah, he mogged, but it's like, he's not maugging, like, model style. It's like, he's like the map. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, in every Tim Curry performance in his career, there's one scene where the director is like, unleash the face. You know what I mean?

Where he's being crazy. I think he just has like a permanent bemused expression. It's always just a little like... But I'm talking about the scene where he was fighting with Mr. Pearl in the radio station where, like, you know, Mike stands are being thrown and whatever. He does like a... Coming, like crazy, come and get me moment where you're just like, that's Tim Curry. Tim Curry brought out, he brought out the mask.

He opened it up. He let it rip. Tim Curry was obviously the most famous person in this movie. And he filmed all of his scenes in two days. Which shocks me because he's in the movie quite a lot. To be fair, when you say most famous, he still wasn't that famous in 1980, right? Right, but he was like top builds in the... Yeah.

On the film. He was the only known actor. I guess Rocky Horror Picture Show was big, ish. I know. Was it mainstream? I'm really not sure. A phenomenal actor, a beloved actor. Yeah.

I'm a huge Tim Curry fan. They don't make him like that. You know what I'm saying? No. But we just didn't really get into the Tim Curry of it all, so I thought it might be in a moment to bring it up. I think without him, this film would be like an absolute disaster. Yeah, and like his, because he's a radio DJ,

they also had the ability for him to do voiceover, which gave so much, like, mood and attitude to it. That's something I wanted to ask you about, actually. I didn't mean to wait this long to do it. But I wonder if this soundtrack would have benefited from, like, his voiceover being included as connective tissue throughout the soundtrack. Oh, wow. You know, like, how they did on, is it Good Morning Vietnam?

Mm-hmm. You know how that Robin Williams is like, is through that. Like, it would have been. possibility to do that. I guess it's not exactly what Robert Stigwood was known for, and that's not how you sell like a major soundtrack, but... Listen, there's still time.

Let's redo it. Based upon the version I watched on 2B last night, I paid $3.99 and did Amazon. This film is in need of a 4K restoration. I know. Criterion should re-release it as part of the collection. And they should release the soundtrack as well. And include...

Some of these songs are not going to get cleared. Include the interstitials. For example, You can't hurry love as covered by a man named D.L. Byron. This is who I'm so excited to talk about. Do you know more about him? Because all I know is that he wrote Shadows of the Night that won a Grammy for Pat Benichard? Correct. Okay.

You know more about this than... I did a little bit of a deep dive. Okay. I can't tell you what strikes me sometimes and why I get into it. You don't have to explain that to me, a person who is constantly going down rabbit holes that I don't have any business being down. So there's the cover of you can't hurry. love the Supreme song.

Yes. Which of course was written by Holland, Dozier Holland, the trio of Motown songwriters. It really

hit my eardrum in a certain way where I was like hold the phone. Who the fuck is this? It's a good cover. It's an incredible cover. It's incredible.

I wanted to be like how dare you? But then I was like, it's good. He kills this cover. His voice is spectacular. Also, this cover was produced

by Jimmy Iveen. I know, I saw that. Which I thought was interesting. So D.L. Byron was on Aresda Records. He was being sort of developed in A&R'd into being an American Elvis Costello. Right. Surprised, I'm surprised that there's an Elvis Costello on the soundtrack. Would have fit right in.

Yeah, this sort of was the Elvis Costello. Like, I thought it was Elvis Costello for a second. He is such an incredible vocalist and performer that if you go and listen to this song, like isolated outside of the movie you're like this guy was so talented what happened to his career

apparently he just sort of stopped he was when he was young he was hot too which will interest you it's like he just feels like one of those lost artists some people just don't make it you know like they have the talent I did listen to a few of his other songs

because they're on YouTube and they're not bad like they're pretty good He just, like, didn't have a hit and just, like, kind of faded into the background. He wrote a book called Chauders of the Night, which I did not read for this podcast, but... He's still with us, so if he hears this, he'll be pleased. I'm a big fan all the sudden. But, like, there are these certain bands, especially in the 80s that are really important to me that, like, are not on streaming.

Yeah. That I've had to, like, go bootleg and put on the fucking local files on my Spotify to be able to listen to it. Like, the ComSat Angels is a big one. I love discovering these, like, all... alternative bands and singers from that time that create this very atmospheric, like, 80s vibe and music that didn't get the right push or, like, didn't really, that's still, like, buried in underground. And I was, like, very into it with this guy. But at the end of the credits in the movie,

there's, like, a thanks to the D.L. Byron band who played Nikki's music. In the song. Oh. In the movie. Her music in the movie, like, I'm a damn dog. They're the, they're actually playing. They're the actual musicians on it. And I don't know if the blondels were actors or if that was the D.L.

Byron band in the movie. I don't think, and they must have been actress because they were like young women. Yeah. Not to say that D.L. Byron's band couldn't have been young women, but it's not giving that they were. It was young women. But I was so, I just thought that was interesting that like D.L. Byron was in the mix somehow, enough where Stigwood or whoever it was like, can you play it? like arrange these songs and do all this.

So much we don't know. I know. It's pretty crazy. That song plays when they steal the ambulance, like the part that you were talking about where they switched to the outfits. Which is a very kind of who's that girl sequence, to be honest. It's very like, wow, was it? Give me that. A screwball. Totally.

There's like screwball sensibility in here sometimes. Yeah. I mean, Nikki kind of has that, you know, Nikki, Robin Donson. Well, then they were like, I guess it is such a quintessential, gritty, scummy New York song that, like, they were like, we should probably include this. But putting Walk on the Wild Side by Lou Reed is so odd. Because if you're trying to capture... I'm never going to complain about that song showing up.

It is an amazing song. It's one of the best songs ever written. God-tier fucking song. That's what I literally wrote here. God-to-your song. I just mean more of the, like, Stigwood's whole, like, master plan of I'm... this is the new wave of now, I'm doing the Saturday Night Fever, and then you throw in an eight-year-old song.

It's kind of bizarre. That's all I'm saying. I'm playing a little bit of, like, fantasy fiction with this one, but I feel like the decision to include it is a testament to how integral that song was to the fabric of New York City already by that point. Yeah, and it works so well, and it's like, they play this song when Pamela's father comes to get her at the Cleo Club. And she's wearing that, like, amazingly hot pink little number.

I know. It's, like, very Playboy Club. Like, the pink satin. Yeah. With the tails on the back. It's so cute. There's something, like, very, like, dark in Paris, Texas-y about that scene. It's, like, an empty Cleo Club.

And, like, she's just, like, I'm not, I'm grown up now or whatever. Like, she shouldn't say that, but it's, like, that's the energy. I've changed, you know? Right. There's a sleaziness. Yeah. Because it's, like, he's walking into a strip club, and there's his 12-year-old daughter. on stage in this playboy bunny outfit

and you get the literalism again of like maybe that song is supposed to be like oh sleazy scary it's about transsexuals and hookers and like but instead because it's such a beautiful song it comes across like sentimental where you're like this is adorable what lovely um okay now we're fucking cooking with gas because this is the song I've been waiting this whole time to talk about Okay, okay.

The night was not by Desmond Child and Rouge. Placed twice in the movie. Placed fucking twice in the movie. Notably. When Pamela does her first appearance at the Cleo Club and dances. And that great outfit. So that scene is so insane. And again, they're not beating any of the lesbian allegations because there said snicky with her hair like full Katie Ling slicked back in like a blazer, like watching her girl dance, you know?

I was going to say, I feel like that. that scene must have influenced the Aerosmith crazy video when Liv Tyler is on the stripper pole. And Alicia is watching and she's wearing the, like, suit and the tie. Yes, totally. And they played again when Pamela is alone at their warehouse just before John LaGuardia comes to visit her after Nicky's like on the street drinking to Tubeway Army. I'm sorry, I had to fall into it. Because I was like, the song is really good. It's really good.

The song is really good. The rouge is, are female singers, because Desmond Child's a man. His real name is John Charles Barrett. I went down a rabbit hole here because I don't know if you're ready for this. I'm so ready. Bring it on. Okay. So this act had a bit of success.

They had like, I think, at least an album or two. And they had a song on the Warriors soundtrack. Warriors come out to play. Could have been a good episode. However, John Charles Barrett, aka Desmond Child, let me give you a little sampling of songs he's co-written or written. Okay. I was made for loving you by Kiss.

Oh, wow. I hate myself for loving you, Joan Jut and the Black Hearts. Okay. You give love a bad name, Bon Jovi. Living on a prayer, Bon Jovi. Aerosmith's dude looks like a lady and angel. Wow. Ricky Martin's live in Lovita Loka.

And actually, and crazy Aerosmith, so maybe that was the connection. Living Lovita Loka. Desmond Child has a writing credit And probably a mansion in Bel Air to show for it. There's way more songs in this. I'm like, this man is a genius. A legend. It is probably rich as hell as he should be.

And I'm like, and then also has a random song on the Times Square soundtrack. Which is also a great song. It's also a great song. It's really the kind of song. And it also is a song that doesn't exactly belong in the milieu of the rest of the songs. But it's so good for like an erotic cabaret. moment. You know, the scene

that it first plays in. It plays twice, though. What's the second time it plays? The second time it plays, I told you, it's when... Oh, when they have their argument in the crash pad.

Right after they have the argument. Like, Nikki leaves and Pamela's alone and Johnny LaGuardia arrives. Oh my God, because it's like, Pamela's like, who is she without Nikki? I'm just a whore.

I'm just a whore from the Clio Club, and now I'm gonna fuck the DJ. That's what's going on in that scene. I don't think that was the... under the subtext at all. Really? I think it was. Don't you feel like Johnny LaGuardia came over

to like have sex with Pamela? No. He brought a bottle of wine. Vodka. Vodka. Even worse? I thought he came to like like, kind of like rescue her.

No, I think he was like, I'm in love with you. Really? Yeah. And then they're lying there talking and then that's why Nikki's upset because she's like, she doesn't like you. She thinks your show sucks. Yeah, yeah.

It's like, but it's such a weird, interesting. Like he was like their champion. you know, and sort of their conscience and like also encouraging them. Oh, it's weird. But then he was like preying upon them a little. A man that... It's very music industry.

You thought you could trust. It turns out, turns around, tries to fuck you. That's what a weird thing to happen. Well, I wonder if there was like a more overt thing that was cut from the movie or something because you're like, why would he... Because Robert Stig would want this to be Greece. We love to get...

Yeah. Why would he show up with a bottle of vodka to make... It's a good point. It's like he went there with some intentions, for sure. That's a good point. I guess because it was... was cut so weird, I didn't get that.

Yeah, and then using that song again is a little bit like, that was the song when she sort of, like, lost her innocence doing, like, working in the strip club. I don't know, it's very odd. We're having to decipher it because the filmmaking is not so coherent. Yeah, it's not

giving me understanding it, but, because also that character is not at all developed. Yeah. The, uh, character of John LaGuardia, so I don't know. You know what I wrote down.

It makes you want to drive a speeding convertible and shoot a gun. It's very Miami Vice. It's very errant spelling. Totally. It's very like later dynasty. It's really wonderful. Innocent, not guilty by Garland Jeffries. Not a love for me.

This one is also only available on the Times Square soundtrack. Yeah, it's oddly. very 80s in a way that some of the other songs aren't, you know? This is the song that plays when they're running from the undercover cop. But what I... It should have been grinding hall. Yeah, it should have been grinding hall. Also, they run into a porno theater.

Yeah, yeah. They run up on the stage in front of the screen where the porn movie's playing. They're running from the cops, the copperson, and everyone stands up and cheers for them. Because they're famous. They're the Sleevesa stars. And it's in the most beautiful theater I've ever seen. Yeah. It's this blue theater.

It's all blue. Yeah. Giant, like, balconies, staircases. I'm just like... This whole scene is really cool. Like, the chase that ensues and all the things that you see along the way. And then, I guess, Grinding Hall. I just want to mention Griding Hall, A, because we love it, but B, because, again, someone was inspired.

Because the song is off three imaginary boys, which, as you point out, first album of The Cure, comes out in 1979, only in the UK. Okay. Grinding Halt doesn't appear in America until February of 1980 when it's on the compilation Boys Don't Cry that had six of the songs off three imaginary boys and some of the other B-sides. So someone was a ball knower. Completely. You know, someone was like, oh, we need, and to pick grinding Halt out of all the songs off of three imaginary boys, good job.

That's some foresight, because I have a theory that I've had my whole life. Okay. which is that Michael Dempsey's bass line in the song actually invented post-punk. Oh. Like, I know there's like the television personalities, you know, the buzzcocks of it all. But like that kind of winding da-na-na-da-na-na-na-na-na-da-thing became so big and ubiquitous. Like it became such a sound and a staple of that genre that I'm always like, that's where it started, bitch. This patient zero.

Yeah. I don't know if I agree, but I like the theory. Yeah. We talked about pissing in a river already. What's crazy about pissing in a river is that completely divorced from this movie? Yeah. The B side to this single was Ask the Angels. It's wild.

She was cooking. Cooking with cats. She was fucking cooking. My favorite Patty Smith album is actually. Let me make sure I get it right Wave. Is it what? No, Wave is not the name of the album.

Yeah, Wave is the name of the album. I just really fucking love that album. I don't revisit Patty Smith ever. I kind of... I like implore you to revisit Wave. It's fucking amazing. I was obsessed with Patty Smith in high school. Yeah.

In college. I fell out of love with her and I fell hard out of love with her because I read her book, just kids, and it made me despise her. which is the opposite effect that that book has on other people. I was like, I'm going to move to the Chelsea Hotel.

I was like, enough. It's a me thing, okay? It's not a judgment. It was just a me thing. But sometimes you're watching a movie like Times Square because you're going on Bansplain and then you hear pissing in a river and it... It's incredible.

It strikes a chord with you. It burrows deep into your soul and then you remember who the fuck you are and why you are the way you are and you cannot divorce the importance of Patty Smith from your musical psychology. She's so major. Okay. Quick cue for you.

Yeah. Why would anybody go to the trouble of doing a song such as Flowers in the City featuring Robert Johnson and David Johanson of the New York Dolls? So special. So great. Only to have it not appear in the film at all. And pretty much never see the light of day again. No.

I mean, I don't find it to be a particularly amazing song personally, but like, why get it made? Of the original songs on this soundtrack? You think it's the best? Of the Slees' sister. There's three songs. What was Nikki's name in the movie, her alter ego when she played? There's like another layer of... Your whole other name.

Yeah, I can't remember. It was like John Arbuckle. It was the guy from Garfield. It was Ned Flanders. Like, I don't remember what it was. It did sound like a man's name. It was like Artie something. Yeah, yeah.

Anyway, of her songs, of her three songs, there's three, right? Damn dog. Your daughter is one. And this one, this is the best of the three to me. Okay. But that's not saying much. Okay. I kind of think your daughter is one is the best one.

Huh. Well, no, I don't know. I guess they're comparable. That's the best scene. Right. You're right, I'm complaining. Aggie Dune. Agie Dune.

I needed to know. Aggie Dune? Okay. Makes no sense. Was that the name of the woman who wrote the diary? Oh, maybe. That's actually a good point. Maybe it was.

I'm just making things up left and right. We're speculating. Yeah. We said, was that? We're trying to make sense of a chaotic world. Yeah. Like. I just wanted to use this as a jumping point to point out that David Johansson was in multiple films later on.

went after he created Buster point Dexter. I know you know that, but I just want people to go back and watch Scrooge. Scrooge, one of the best movies of all time. A little Buster Boyndon, aster cameo. And then I just want to touch on Dangerous Type by the Cars, which is

in the film but not off the soundtrack. Cool. Maybe they couldn't get the rights. It's in one of the most... Rickokokokke had it with Stigwood. He was like, you don't get... You're not getting any money from this song.

But it's in one of the most iconic scenes, which is when they are wearing the amazing garbage bag outfits. And they're like running and throwing all the TVs off the other things. The best sequence in the movie, you could argue, the Smashing TV sequence. With the garbage. I mean, it's so cool. And then at the end, obviously, the army of teenage girls that comes to see Agie Dune and the Blondelles perform is wearing, they're all wearing their garbage bags.

Like, it's so cool. Kandio, perfect album. Yeah, hugely important to me personally. Come on, no. Come on, no. She's a lot like you. The Dangerous Time. But again, that could have been Griden Halt, too. Why put a song that wasn't on the soundtrack?

I'm so happy that song is in the movie. To me, it makes the movie feel more expensive. It's like, ooh, they got a car song in here. It's like, now we're really like... Soundtrack lore. You have more? Letters to Cleo covered the song for the soundtrack of The Craft. So there you go.

Wait, what song? Dangerous type. Oh, okay, dangerous type. It's so funny, I was just talking about letters to Cleo this morning in the gym. How often do people talk about letters to Cleo? More than you think. Me, probably more than the average bear, but even me to talk about it twice in one day is like unusual.

That is a coincidence. I just felt like for the soundtrack. Yeah, soundtrack lore. I like that. I'm thrilled that that's in the movie. I also, can I do a little tinfoil hat right now about something that's completely like unrelated, which is that you and I have both been engaging with music fashion film, the Charlie X-X album. God dear album. And I was like, perfect. Perfect from start

to finish. I love it. And I don't even know if she's seen this movie. But I was like, isn't it interesting that the movie begins with Roxy Music saying, um, nothing lasts forever? Now every time you hear that, I think, I'm thinking, I can only hear David Cronenberg saying, they are dead, they are gone. Nothing lasts forever. And then like, we have the sequence of them throwing all the TVs off the buildings of New York

and in the rock music video, right, she's throwing TVs out the window. What does it mean? It's like, this was like the very beginning of the kind of like new romantic, new wave post-punk, like musical

era. And now it's come full circle with Charlie. She is the Slee's sister. We got John kill on that cover. A lot of connective tissue here. I love it. And also, I just, we mentioned a couple times, but like, I loved

hearing from Courtney how important this film was to her and how, like, she had like, the blondels were so cool to her, and she would, like, wear the garbage bags, and she said, she was, like, I took the bus to see the film and seeing these young punk girls. Like, I have to imagine

she's not the only one. I mean, she's probably the one that made it into the most major, you know, thing for our lives. But, like, I was just trying to wrap my head around both aspects of it, like, being a teenager girl and seeing these teenage girls on film. Who cares if it's, like, the good or bad movie. It's, like, how inspiring and amazing. Playing music. Playing music, being free, running around, telling their parents to fuck off.

Like, you know, like, just so talking about poetry, talking about art. Like, it's a really fucking. garbage bags and the fashion, like you pointed out. Having a strange parisocial relationship with a radio DJ. Who amongst us? Who amongst you? It's like, which was sort of a little

microcosm of like the music scene or something, like the music industry. It was sort of, I'm sure it was very inspiring. The way that the fabulous stains was probably very inspiring to a lot of female rock musicians as well. Courtney said something about how like the idea that people would dress like you was so inspiring and look what happened. You know, like, because all the girls,

we just said, dressed in these garbage bags, like, Yeah, it kind of predicted grunge. Also, like, when she's working. Or, like, Stan culture a little bit, right? It's like, we talked about with Madonna, like, all those Madonna bees, you know? But, like... Yeah. It is the most heartwarming part of the movie, how all those fans show up wearing garbage bags with the bandit makeup on.

It's so cool. And, like, their flooding time square. Yeah. But, yeah, I was going to mention, like, when she's working at the Clio Club, how she was, like, I'm not going to get topless. And when they're getting dressed in the back, she just, like, layers all this. stripper clothes on top of each other and it becomes this like cool baggy. Yes. And I, there's, when Agi Dune was performing at the Cleo Club and she had like fox tails or

something, you know? And then it made me think of like those early Madonna outfits and I don't remember like how she wore those outfits. And I was just like, wow, like, while a lot of those bits are not as enduring in culture as some other like looks that we've seen like specific punk looks or like maybe Debbie Harry Blondie era outfits. This was also so real. Or even like Molly Ringwald's outfits and like pretty in pink or whatever.

It's like this was, this is a movie that had like a kind of pervasive influence in its own quiet way. And was very reflective of like what was really happening in New York. I ride for it. I ride for this movie. I ride for the soundtrack. I think making a mainstream soundtrack and putting grinding hall by the cure and talk of the town by the pretenders and the ruts and stuff on it. is fucking cool. Maybe Robert Stigwood is evil Australian

Kim Fowley, but he did something for the culture. Did he mean to do it for the culture? No. Did he want to make a lot of money? Probably. But... I feel like Alan Moyle got his revenge a little bit with Empire Records.

Or probably the fucking volume. But I think that it's like he was able to later steer these movies in a way where he controlled the messaging. like it was like sort of damn the man you know and then Empire it's funny that

And fascinatingly two movies that are also extremely known for their soundtracks Very known for their soundtracks Empire Records had like a much more eclectic interesting cool alternative soundtrack The Jinn Blossom song that was written Throwing muses and shit Like that movie is so genuine

That character is so Jim Blossoms Coda The Cute Guy in Empire Records I've seen it in so long both movies end with like a free concert like a rebellious free concert on top of like a structure with coyote shivers put some respect on his name

yeah yeah I guess he had a story to tell Alan Moore had a story in his heart and it involved it involved like everyone outside we're gonna put on a concert yeah my name isn't fucking Warren

and so in a way time square led to Empire Records which led to me me being a nuisance at the video store, which led to me getting my first job, which led me to filmmaking, which led me to Hollywood,

which led me to Bansplain. To Bansplain. All roads end at Bansplain. Times Square started it. All last summer, in case you don't recall. I was yours and you were mine forgetting. People are like, why are you singing Domazas and all the Times Square soundtrack? It's time to go.

Yeah, we've said enough about this movie. More than anyone ever has, probably. I would love to say more, but I think we kind of, I think we kind of, you know, we hit all the points. Yeah. Is it a great movie? Is that even important?

Does that matter? It's a fun movie. I think if the movie was complete irredeemable, we would not be having this conversation about the soundtrack. The only movie I can think of that is like, with love and respect in my heart, pretty much pure garbage is Judgment Night. But that soundtrack is so... I haven't even heard of that movie.

What is Judgment Night? You don't know about Judgment Night? No. Okay, Judgment Night, no one's... I know Terminator 2 Judgment Day. Judgment Night... Wow, we've really... We've strayed far from God's Light.

Judgment Night is a film starring... Tales from the Crypt Demon Night. Wait, is it Emilio Estevez and Cuba Getting Jr.? Yes. Emilio said Stephen Dorff and Cuba Getting Jr. And Dennis Leary. It's just like... I think Jeremy Pivens in it.

it's like a pretty just generic crime. I love Jeremy Piven. Me too. It's not great. Okay? There are a group of friends on the rung from a gang of drug dealers. But it has a great soundtrack. They invented rap rock. Like this is the sound

So no. No, it's a babe, don't we did an episode on Judgment Night. You guys can go back and listen to it. This is this crazy. You've never heard the Judgment night soundtrack? Well, maybe I've heard the songs on it and not known. They basically created, it's all new songs, and they paired, like, teenage fan club with De La Sol.

That's the most famous song off there. It's called Fallon. It's one of the best songs for all the time. Or they have, like, anthrax and, God, who does it with anthrax? Is it Onyx? Or is it a biohazard in Onyx? It's a biohazard and Onyx. So it's the point of this.

Slayer and Ice Tea. It's not the worst movie with the best soundtrack that you could bring up is what you're saying. That's what I'm just saying, like, that was more. saying that this is like... It's a charming movie. Most great soundtrack movies, I have... I can...

Whether or not it's like a great movie, I have an affection and a fondness for the film. The only one I can think of that the movie is like, I don't care if it lives or dies is judgment night. Respectfully. Right, right, right. And that is the end of this podcast, I think. Okay.

Unless you have more to contribute. No, I was just going to say, like, this movie to me is like a lesser Christian F, which is also a sound... soundtrack. David Bowie. That matters a lot. Yeah.

Yeah. Walt to Wall. Yeah. Did you see that? But this is like a little bit of, this is like the PG version, but you're like, it also involves porno theaters and strip clubs and Topless Women and songs that have vile slurs in them. So it's not exactly Disney, but. Did you, did you see that tweet?

This tweet put up this like, it's like one of those history, like music history. Twitter accounts and it was like, David Bowie moves to West Berlin with his old friend Iggy Pop in the hopes that they will escape the spot and reduce their drug use and it's a picture of them. And someone goes, I moved to Drug City with my close friend Mr. Drugs, so I would quit drugs. My close friend Mr. Drugs. It'd be like that sometimes. I moved to Drug City with my friend Mr. Drugs. Worlds were they going to go, you know?

Walla Walla Washington. At least they made low. All right. Patrick, as always, it was an honor and a pleasure to have you on the program. Thank you for coming to speak about Times Square. You're welcome back anytime. Come back next week for a new episode of Vance Lane. If you liked what you heard today, subscribe for more episodes of Vanswain.

Our guest today was Patrick Sandberg. This episode was produced by Rob Sunderman and edited by Adrian Bridges, Houghton Justin Sales, video production by Chris Thomas. Executed producers for Bansplaine, Arjuna Delvac, and me, Yossi Salad. Our gorgeous and catchy theme song was composed and performed by Bethany Costantino and Jennifer Clavin and graciously recorded by Carlos Sla Garsa in Los Angeles, California.

Special thanks to our producer emeritus, producer Dylan, aka Dylan Tupper Rupert, and also Sean Fantasy and the Katsuya in Studio City. Come back every Thursday for new episodes of Vansplaine on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Yossi Salic. You are not Yasser Kalli. How dare you?

Nobody could possibly. I'm Anthony Fantano.