Bandsplain - The Goo Goo Dolls with Chris Black

Episode Date: March 11, 2021

In Bandsplain’s very first crossover episode, we welcome self-proclaimed cultural polymath Chris Black of the elite bro-cast How Long Gone to explain 90s icons The Goo Goo Dolls. Follow Chris Black on Twitter at @donetodeath. Subscribe to How Long Gone on Spotify.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's with this band anyway? I don't get it. Can you please explain? Wait, like, Bansplain? Welcome to Bandsplane. I'm your host, Yossi Salick. This is a show where I help you, and sometimes me, understand bands and artists with cult followings. Today's episode is about the Gougu Dolls.

If you haven't heard the Gugu Dolls, you're lying, but here's what the Gougu Dolls sound like. Normally on Bandsplane, we talk to music experts, journalists, you know, professional kinds of people who deal with music. Today, however, we are talking to an elite podcaster, Chris Black. I'm very happy to be here. Thank you for having me. Of the storied, how long gone franchise. You know, it is a franchise at this point. We have multiple income streams.

You know, it's really involved. but I was able to take some time and I'm a busy day to talk to you about an important subject. Chris, we've established that you are a professional and elite podcaster, but can you tell us a little bit more about yourself? Who are you?

Literally, what do you do for a living? I think that's top of mind for a lot of people. I read your bio on your website and it did include the words cultural polymath, which I don't know if that comes with dental. Like what's the like starting salary? Unfortunately the starting salary.

Do you need a degree? You definitely don't need a degree. The starting salary is good. The health care is non-existent. So you win some, you lose some. You know what I mean? It's just a classic situation.

I, uh, well, you know, I'm, I'm from Atlanta. I live in New York. Um, I,

I work with brands as a consultant, basically in fashion, uh, you know, products, media, a little bit of everything. I just try to help people be their best. Jossi, that's why I'm here on this podcast with you.

Yeah, and usually, like, someone's intro establishes why they're the perfect expert to talk about a band. And that didn't happen here, but I feel like we're going to go with it because I don't know that I could get anyone else to come here to talk with me about Google dolls. I don't think that's necessarily true,

but I don't think there's somebody that could come with the experience. that I have that I'm able to lay out on the table here for you. As a listener, also as an elite podcaster, and as someone who has spent time in the music business and understands the cultural tour de force that the Goo Goo Goo Dolls are. He said, I've spent time in the music business, is what he said, ladies and gentlemen. For those of you that haven't spent time in the music business, don't worry, we have amongst us. And by that, I mean, I grew up in the right time and listen to Top 40 Radio.

So I'm uniquely positioned for this show. Same. We're going to have a great show. Chris, why don't you tell us a little bit about the Goo Goo Goo Dolls? Like, give us the broad strokes of the band. I guess the best way to describe them is a punk band that slowly morphed into like a pop rock band. They're from Buffalo. The singer Johnny Resnick is famous for his blonde locks that have been highlighted,

many, many times over the years into a brighter blonde color. But they really took hold in like the late 90s, early 2000s and kind of took over pop radio with this kind of like really palatable, upbeat, catchy. I would say somewhat emotional rock sound. Would you agree with me there? Oh, deeply emotional. Heartstring tugging choruses, sweeping bridges. They have a bass player that looks kind of funny.

so he's always in the shadows, which is a thing I love. But yeah, they had one of the bigger runs of that era, and it kind of has stuck with us as a society. Like it's that era where if you were big, your music kind of never goes away. So you can still hear it at your local publics, your local CVS. Your top 40 radio station probably plays it

during a throwback lunch hour maybe. It's just it's there to be consumed, The legends have had a illustrious career. This is the last remnants of the time where pop radio played music like this. Chris, what would you say, you know, you're walking in the public. Like, what is the most well-known Gougu-Dolls song? Like, what do you think that people have heard for sure in their lives, even if they don't know that they've heard the Gougu-Dolls?

Iris is 100% the biggest song from 1998. it was like a true a true smash that uh i mean i think it was like i think it was like actually number one for like a long time not not just in my heart but like on the charts um so that that it's inescapable in that way and you probably know the words for that if you've ever watched you know let's say Dawson's Creek maybe you know um one tree hill you know that that kind of that kind of emotion i feel the google dolls can match all right so let's kick it off with uh the The Goo Goo Dolls massive smash from 1998. This song spent 12 straight months on the billboard charts.

That's a full calendar year, guys. The song is Iris by the Goo Goo Dolls. That was Iris by the Goo Goo Dolls from the album, Dizzy Up the Girl. Okay, yeah, from the album Dizzy Up the Girl, but actually from the major motion picture, smash hit 1998 Nicholas Cage Vehicle, City of Angels. I, you know, I have to admit something. It's not even embarrassing, but I've never seen that movie. And I know this song strictly as like a top 40 pop hit and also like an inescapable kind of song you hear everywhere in the world as you get older.

But if you, I would love to get a quick plot synopsis on how the song is presented in City of Angels because I feel like it's probably a very emotional scene. I think this song was literally written for this movie. Correct me if I'm wrong, you don't know. But let me look at the internet. I think you, I think you might be right. It's 100% because otherwise these lyrics make no fucking sense. I give up forever to touch you because I know that you feel me somehow. You're the closest to heaven that I'll ever be.

And I don't want to go home right now. Do you see heaven is home? This is sung from the perspective of an angel. I'm not religious. I'm not religious, so that's a little confusing for me, but I think I understand the metaphor. I think it is actually very 90s for a song to like be written specifically for a movie and then become like a giant smash that stands fully alone and kind of sets the tone for a band's entire career. Totally. I mean, listen, did Nicholas Cage play an angel named Seth? who shepherds.

That's really not angelic. You know what I mean? That doesn't say angel to me. I'm dying to talk to the screenwriter who was like, okay, what's a good name? What's a good name for an angel? Seth. It must be like after a dead relative or something.

There has to be more to it. And then he falls in love with, Seth and one of his fellow angels, Casiel. Okay, Casiel, yes, full angel name. Seth. Anyways, he falls in love with a earth woman who's like a surgeon, and then he doesn't want to go home right now, you know? I get it.

He would give up forever to touch her. I get it. No, it all makes sense now. It all makes sense now. I feel like it's interesting to write a song with a directive, you know, from a movie, but I guess that's something people do, you know? Okay, Chris, now that everyone's all comfy in their chairs,

and they're like, oh, yeah, this is the Iris Band. why don't you tell us about what they were like before they were the iris band you know let's say less palatable um definitely not ready for the mainstream definitely not uh plucked and uh primed for for the big screen by any means so it was it was a little more rough around the edges but i mean if you if you we let's let's listen to their first let's listen to a song from their first album because i could talk about this all day but nothing will do it like like listening to a song you know right y'all see yeah like let's let's show not tell let's say so this is this is a song called i'm addicted uh it's from the the self-titled album gooo dolls that was released in what year are we talking about

here 87 which is that's a long time ago guys um all right let's listen to i'm addicted by the goo Dolls. I'm addicted by the Goo Goo Goo Dolls from their self-tot album, Gougu Dolls 1987. That to me look, it's not great, but it's better than it should be kind of. It's also like weirdly

ahead of its time. It's super melodic and pretty catchy. Like it's not, it's not like it's like a total throwaway. Yeah, it's like it sounds like shitty pop punk that should have come out like a decade later. Exactly what it sounds like to me. Johnny Resnick had his finger on the pulse.

Yes. Well, the early, the baseline in the beginning gives me a real like rancid vibe, you know. Totally. Totally. Which is, that's a positive for me. But the interesting, compliment. But the interesting thing about this band is that you can absolutely like go through the catalog in chronological order and kind of literally hear them leveling up to where they get, which I think is like, it's not like. like they had like an explosion all of a sudden. It's like kind of a gradual, gradual rise into writing giant hits, which is,

is nice to hear. Totally. Well, Chris, I mean, talk a little bit about because I think I know this, but I think most people don't, you know this. Like,

they were in a scene in Buffalo then with this bad album. I mean, they were playing shows with who? They were playing shows. Like, it was basically punk. I mean, they opened for motorhead.

You know what I mean? Dead Milkman, the gun club, Uniform Choice, the Dickies, Dag nasty, bad religion. So it was like that world that they were playing in and that was kind of their world

for a while. Like that wasn't, you know, that was three, four, five years, I would assume from inception. That's kind of where they lived. So I think that they were, they were, you know, like most punk bands, like touring a lot and so they shared the stage with

a lot of bands who would not go on to find the success that they did. So But so they they they're their punk is hell and then like I said, you can kind of you can kind of see them graduating or maybe honing their craft is a better way to put it. But they followed their self-title album with an album called Jed in 1989. There's actually a song on Jed that I feel like hints at the evolution. Like it's like, okay, like yeah, their punk is fuck. but like they have some softer aspirations.

And it's called James Dean. I think we should listen to it. That was James Dean off Jed. I feel like what happened here is that Johnny Resident got his hands on the Replacements album, Let It Be in between the first and second albums. Maybe some drugs too. Maybe some drugs. I'm just going to put that out there.

Yeah, maybe some hard drugs. And he was like, I'm sad. I like this replacements album. let's try something new. And then we got James Dean. I don't disagree with you. And that song is extremely replacements that he owes it all to them. But I also think it's a little ramshackle.

It's a little, you know, undercooked. But in it like guys like this, though, I feel like he can only write choruses that are like catchy. It like doesn't matter how bad it sounds or like what the lyrics are. It's like that's all he can do. So even if it's a shitty blink when it's, to imitation or a Paul Westerberg imitation, it's still

like sounds like it's pretty good, you know? Totally. Totally. He's got that gift. Yes, he really does have a gift, but that actually is a great lead in into another song that I realize now is kind of like a fan favorite. Which is?

It's called Two Days in February and it's from the next album Hold Me Up. So like we said, they're inching towards greatness here. And this song to me, This is, this song is extremely, extremely like the production is so 90s and there's like noise and shit. But it is a, it is a, it's a better, it's like a, it's definitely an evolution from James Dean. Let me say that in the same vein.

So this is two days in February by the Goo Goo Goo Dolls. That was two days in February by the Goo Goo Dolls from the album Hold Me Up. But see, that's like, that song's like really my kind of shit. First of all, that slaps. That song slaps. It slaps. It slaps. But you can tell why it's a fan favorite because it's kind of like buried in the album.

It's got like it's got the wave crashing sample because he's sad that his chick moved to California. So around this time, there's a fan favorite, right? Which means there's fans. But they're still, they're still not on a major. They're still not really. They're not on the radio. Am I correct? It ain't pop and pop.

They're definitely in a van. Life ain't that good. Resonick came in a four. lipstick yet. So it's like he could or a flat iron probably. Or definitely not a flat iron. Those are expensive, especially if he's getting a good one. Ceramic. But you know, there is

and we still, you know, unfortunately we still have more time before they get to the top, you know, but there is, there is a they put in their road time. They were road dogs. Yeah, they absolutely were road dogs. But I think also in this time period, like that's the only choice you had. There was no

Spotify or or. What a dark time pre-Spotify. I don't like to imagine it personally. It's like scary to me. It's truly prehistoric. But, you know, being a road dog and playing at a local watering hole on a Tuesday, it was kind of all you could do, you know, to get those major label guys to take notice. So, but, but, you know, we've talked about this a little bit, but, you know, Resnick was kind of obsessed with, with Paul Westerberg and the replacements. Right. And who isn't? Well, sure. I mean, we, we are.

Anyone with two ears and a mouth. So, uh, on, on their fourth album, which is called superstar car wash, um, basically. Is there a more 90s? Is there a more 90s album title that like a 90s album title generator would spit that out like nine times out of 10? I could see him like wearing, he, he's wearing like a work shirt with the patch on it that says, Like Johnny, you know, in the video. But, but they were. So basically there's a song that is co-written by Westroberg called We Are the Normal. And I, Resnick laid it down and sent the track to, to Paul Westerberg.

And he wrote the lyrics and sent it back. And it ended up kind of being their first flirtation with the radio. Because it went to number five on the modern rock chart, one of my favorite charts, if not my favorite. Um, so, so this is, this is, you know, this is interesting because this is pretty early overall, you know, considering this is pretty early in the Goo Goo Goo Doll's career for them to kind of have a meeting of the minds, you know, with their, basically their inspiration, their hero, uh, at an earlier stage, I think it's pretty interesting. I don't think a lot of bands get that opportunity. Um, so this song is called, We Are the Normal, uh, by the Goo Goo Dolls from Superstar Car Wash. that was uh we are the normal uh by the goo goo dolls and i mean that just sounds like a replacement song with johnny resnick singing i don't know if you agree okay here's what i think if we're gonna be real two things to address what you said before a meeting of the minds with your hero in 1993 probably pretty easy because the replacements had already imploded totally and paul westerberg

was sitting around writing 200 songs a day because he was doing solo material that for sure sounds like a throwaway that he was like 100% this song sucks I don't want to record it. The replacements don't exist anymore. I'll send it to this guy who keeps asking me to collab. And he was like, yeah, here's like, here's my 40 second worst song

on my trash. He like literally picked it up out of a trash can, smoothed it out and was like, dropped it in the mail. That's my take. I don't disagree with you, but I do think it's in, it adds a very interesting layer

to the Gougu Doll's twisted tail. You know, because it's, I, it slaps. but as a replacement song, it sucks. Oh, no, no, no, no. But I don't think that I think that that is, you're right.

I don't think the barriers of entry were quite as hard to meet your heroes, especially if your heroes are the replacements. Like I think the replacements all the time for their musical contribution, this is part of that. Like, without Paul Westerberg and the replacements, we wouldn't have the back half of this episode, which is banger after banger from the Gougu dolls. Mercifully, we're getting to the good stuff, baby,

where it's just, it's fucking, It's fucking hits only from here on out. These motherfuckers went on a run like you've never seen. Now we're cooking with gas. We are absolutely cooking with motherfucking gas. But this song is called, is called name. And you either have to be 18 or live under a rock to not have heard this one.

This is about as good as it gets, you know, for me. Just like full statement. Blanket. Not relating to the Goo Goo Goo Dolls. Just in general, in life, this is about as good as it gets for Chris Black. There's bad shit and there's good shit. and this is good. You know what I'm saying?

Let me just, let me make it real simple for you. All right. So this song is called name and it is by the Goo Goo Dolls from the album, a boy named goo. Yossi, I tell you what,

when that guitar, you know, I can just see that live with maybe a 12 string to really set the fucking move. I'm emotional. How could you not be? How could you not be?

That's what it demands of you as a listener. Unless you have a cold, dead fucking heart, that song will move you. Chris, I don't know about you, but I think this is the first Googood All song I ever heard. Oh, yeah, for sure. Same. Yeah. This was my introduction to the Goo Goo Dolls because let's see, boy named Goode came out in 95. I was in high school, so are you, were the same age as we've established.

And, you know, I was, let's see, 95. Oh, yeah. I was like an awkward, like acne-laden. This is like freshman year. This is like freshman year. or just sit right? Yeah. Yeah.

Or maybe or maybe a soft lawyer. Like I was unattractive. I never thought I would have a boyfriend. I would bump this shit in my sad room and just be like, I don't know what I would say because this, the lyrics of this song make literally no fucking sense. This is where I want to dive in to Johnny Resnick's poetry. Please, please. Please dig in.

All you want. Come for my king. You grew up way too fast. Now there's nothing to believe. And reruns all become our history. I don't know what that means. Easy. Yeah.

I mean, what's not to understand? Continue. Because all the dreams you thought, you never thought you'd lose tossed along the way. What? That one's a little more discombobulated as a sentence structure-wise, but I'm not, I'm, who am I to judge?

I mean, I don't have the, I'm not a professor. I'm not a songwriter. I'm merely a guy that listens to music, you know? I just want to think about myself being like 14 years old and sitting in my room being like, scars or souvenirs you never lose. The past is never far. That.

Yes. Oh, my God. Yes. Did you lose yourself somewhere out there? He's right. Did you get to be a star? And don't it make you sad to know that life is more than who we are, bro? That one is pretty deep, honestly, if you really think about it.

You know what I mean? I mean, if you really think about it. It does make me sad to think that life is more than who we are, Johnny. It is. And Johnny, I think Johnny's a little more, I think it's a little more poetic that we're giving credit for just because it rhymes. You know what I mean? Maybe we're not taking it quite as seriously as we should.

It's just like, this is just catnip for teenagers who are like just pure hormones and emotion with like actually no intelligence or understanding of themselves. So they're like, this song speaks to me. I don't know what it's saying, but it speaks to me. It's meaningless, like emotional drivel set to extremely melodic music. That's the key. And that's why Resnick's lyrics don't matter because the shit just slaps too hard. It's like paying attention to the lyrics is fruitless.

Let's get into a fucking smash. Okay. Can we do that? Can you allow? I would love to hear a smash. We're going to hear slide by the Goo Goo Goo Dolls from Dizzy Up the Girl. Let's fucking go. Slide by the Goo Goo Dolls.

If you don't know that, you better get familiar. You better educate yourself. Chris, a thing I really need to talk about about this song is that, and I don't know of other young women of my age share this, but it instilled a lifelong neuroses in me. And that neuroses is that men love a girl who is, how do we say, a little unstable, a little weird, a little quirky, a little chaotic. Maybe things are wrong in her life. she has problems. We don't know what they are. Maybe she's a drug addict. And that is the kind of girl you need to be to be loved and adored by men as per this song. And there was tons of other songs in this era.

That's not that's not true. You have you have to be hot to. Don't leave that out. Of course. I mean, I think that goes without saying. I think that goes without saying, you know, we live in a society. But this is, you know, this song that that song by that band Hum, she missed the train to Mars. She's out back counting stars. That girl was a little, you know, off. This is maybe, this is maybe in the same vein and the same time as the manic pixie dream girl was invented. It just, it planted the seed that to be loved, you have to be chaotic. And I can't be held accountable anymore for what I turned into as a result of that. So now you're blaming celebrity singer and hair house.

or Johnny Resnick on your personal problems? All I'm saying is like, was it nature or was it nurture? We'll never know. We won't ever know. I luckily am able to separate an artist from his lyrics. It's saved me a lot in my life. And in this case, I think I would tend to do the same. I don't really, I think Johnny's experience is, you know, exclusive to him.

And I don't think you should read into it more than that or maybe blast that upon yourself for this negative feedback loop. What you feel is what you are and what you are is beautiful. That's fire. I mean, that's just fucking bars right there. Chef's fucking kiss. That is bars. Of a beautiful.

What you feel is what you are. The fact that Johnny Resnick has not published a poetry book like Lana Del Rey is actually concerning to me. And maybe I should start an independent press just to do that. I would fund some of it. If you want to do that, I'll write you a check right now. I would fund some of it. I like that.

Just some. I mean, I believe in this project. God, what a great song. But I- It really is a smash. It slaps.

I love it so much. That is a peak. But I mean, you know, this album produced, I mean, these motherfuckers were just shitting on the haters.

Like, dizzy of the girl was really that record. Like so many hits. It's a nonstop hit factory. But it's, it's that era too where every record

where third eye blind had seven singles on the same album. You know, it's like, it's like that time period where it's just like hit after hit after hit and radio is loving you and the tours are big and life is good and you're fucking rich and famous and there's no cell phones. You can do coke. But the next song from Dizzy Up the Girl that we need to talk about is black balloon.

Oh, my other favorite. Definitely about heroin and which makes it feel even more 90s to me. Like a pop rock band talking about heroin. Like a pretty pop rock song that they play in the CVS that's actually about heroin that like moms are singing along to. But not even like black balloon is the title. Like it's they didn't even try to hide it. They didn't even try to hide it. And and you know what?

Tip or Gore didn't even get involved. She was focused on hip hop. She should have been coming for Johnny. All right. Let's listen to it. Black, black balloon by the Gougu dolls from Dizzy Up the Girl. Let's fucking go. Wow.

Okay. Black balloon. A smash hit. But also I have to say very popular at the time to write about women on drugs because also speaking of third eye blind, that's what the do do do do song is about. The dude do dude dude song is about math. Oh, I know. That's my number one karaoke song.

I can go bar for bar on that joint. That is my number one karaoke song, Chris. And my party trick is that I don't have to look at the screen. Oh yeah. No, me neither. Once I get going, I'm good. Like I might want a couple to get me started just because I want to feel comfortable on stage. And you know, that's interesting that we lead into it with karaoke because, well, here, let's, let's first of all, because this song, the next song, we have a, we have a special, we have a special inclusion that may shock, shock the listeners of this podcast. And honestly, it shocks me that this even exists. But let's listen to the original version of a song called Broadway by the Goo Goo Goo Goo Dolls. That is Broadway from the Goo Goo Dolls. In some ways, my favorite Goo Goo Goo Doll song. And in some ways, one, one,

that has taken on a new meaning to me, Yassi. And why is that, why is that, Chris? Why don't we illuminate our dear listeners? My, so my business partner and like a lifelong friend, his name is James Ellis. We. I just want to interject here that Chris said business partner. And one of the things about Chris is that me and also I think everybody else has no idea what this person does for a living.

It's a huge secret. It's not a secret. It's out there in the world Just hit the google.com search bar It's all out there for you to find out It's not that secret It's just maybe it's hard for some people To like corporate thugs to understand

You know but am I Are you a creative director? Is that why? Because you have such a real working class job That I could not possibly understand me And my email job You could not possibly understand Your email job

You don't understand When I'm digging ditches every day And your little computer It's so my hands can look like this. Exactly. Exactly. So my podcaster hands can look like this. Podcast your hands.

So my business partner, James Ellis, we were in a hardcore band together in high school. And we actually, we just have a deep musical history together. And he's a very talented musician himself. And for my birthday, he decided to, we had been, we had been getting super into this musician named Tommy Keen, who kind of comes from the replacements, Gugu Doll's world. But like, never really made it. You know, one of those guys. like a head's head kind of musician that never really made it, but had friends in high places.

So for my birthday, he assembled an all-star band to cover a Tommy Keen song. And the B-side was a Gugu Doll's cover of Broadway. But the kicker is, I'm singing this song. So we went to the cave, a studio in Greenpoint, and there was a full guys I know, but like real musicians. and we recorded this live in the studio and it's available for streaming on Spotify. So I thought I would be remiss to not. Let's hear a little clip.

Let's hear a little clip. Let me set it up though. Let me set up a little bit. This is kind of like a jangly power pop version of Broadway. We were inspired by Keen. That's where our heads were at. So I just want you to know, artistically we did take some license.

See the young man sitting in the old man's bar waiting for his turn to die. I think that that, that version of Broadway by the Goo Goo Goo Dolls is truly a testament to my love for this band. I don't think a lot of your guests could come to the table with something of that caliber. You're so right. This is a bandsplain first and maybe a bandsplain last. I'm going to say probably because people aren't as stupid or up for punishment as maybe I am. Why is that your favorite song? Talk about the music a little. What do you like about it?

I really, really love the bridge. I really, really love the bridge. And I just think it's, I think also for this purpose, it was like it really, we were able to interpret it in a way that we wanted. It's like it's easy to make that like a little cooler than it sounds on their version. Not that, not because I'm a great singer, but because like the music itself lends, you can, you can do a little more with it than maybe some of the other songs like stylistically. And I've just listened to it 100 fucking times. And James, my partner and I listened to that album and that song particularly so much. like in the office together, that it felt very natural. And, and, you know, much like third eye blind,

you can leave the lyrics at home, baby. I'm not even taking the phone into the booth. I just, I go straight off dome. I'm Jay-Z. No pin, no pad. It's just off top. It's off top. But so dizzy up the girl was an absolute smash.

Like this really, that album truly solidified them as like hitmakers. And I think, you know, and this is sad for them. But a lot of people maybe, maybe stop paying attention. Yossi. And you know who didn't stop paying attention? Me. Chris Black. Chris Black has stayed glued to the dolls catalog, the entire ride.

This roller coaster, I just won't get off. I don't know that you're telling the truth, but I, too, did listen to the album after, the two albums after. Honestly, so there's a song called Here Is Gone, which also sounds like a title that doesn't make any sense, which I know you love. Love. From the words that mean nothing. From the next, that's like, yeah, I want to learn to talk more like that.

From the next album, which is called gutter flower, which is truly the worst album title of all time. But this song absolutely rocks. And I, I, this song here is gone is on my running playlist and has been for years. And it will never leave. It's a real pump up song for me. You work out to this song? Yeah, you can't tell. All right.

Here is Gone by the Goo Goo Goo Dolls from the album, gutter flower. That was, Here is Gone by the Goo Goo Dolls from the album, gutter flower. And if you know what a gutter flower is, please write into Spotify and let us know. It's not also heroin. They're just still writing about heroin. I think it, I mean, it sounds like a euphemism for drugs, absolutely. A gutter flower is the kind of girl I wanted to grow up to be so that the boys would like me. It's like a, it's like the darker cousin to a manic pixie dream girl.

Exactly. Yeah, that makes sense. But this album continues the rain, though, because there's at least two more singles on this record. I mean, obviously they don't get to the same level as Disney Up the Girl. But these songs, I feel like, are a little underappreciated. I'm happy that I'm able to bring them to light. Well, can we talk about gutter flower?

Can we put gutter flower in context? Gutterflower came out in 2002, right? So now we're firmly past the 90s. Yeah, I mean, at this point, I'm living on my own and definitely in denial of liking music like this, but still bumping it in my Honda Civic on the radio, Star 94. Yeah, for sure. It was on my first gen iPod or I definitely used Napster in my dorm room in college to

fire this bad boy up. Yeah, I think, listen, if you hear these songs and you are not like, that's a good song, you're a fucking liar. And that's fine. if you want a cool guy yourself out of some joy and some emotion, that's your choice in your life. But these are bangers. Speaking of people who don't lie about how good the Goo Goo Goo dolls are, we did talk to a bunch of real life Google Dolls fans to hear what they like about them. We should hear from them. Wait, what? Damn. You guys are fucking pros. This is so cool.

I discovered the Google Dolls because my dad had a dizzy up the girl CD. that I would take into my room, turn the lights off, light a candle, lay on the floor, and play the album, start to finish. I first learned of the Guga Dolls in the spring of 1991. I'd been listening to a lot of early replacements, early soul asylum, stuff like the descendants and Big Drill Car and the Do Boys. A friend of mine was like, hey, if you like that stuff, you should check out this band from Buffalo.

That cassette didn't leave my car tape player for about five months. To the point that the cassette player ate the tape, actually. to forcibly take it out. You could say that the Goo Goo Dolls were like my attempt at being like a sullen, maudlin teenager, but it was glossy and I just didn't realize it. I remember that name came out when I was in fourth grade and it quickly became my favorite song

and I got a boy named goo for my birthday that year. Just kind of of that late 90s, early 2000s like soft rock poppy genre, they're top tier, you know. And the song's kind of, of have that timeless feel. In my adulthood, I have found that I bond with a lot of people over the Goo Goo Dolls. It's just, it was a weird experience to be 20 years old and sitting on the roof of a punk house

drinking 40s with some new friends and having one of them put on long way down. And we all sang along. I feel amongst my people. Like, look at us. We bonded over the Goo Goo Goo Goo Dolls. That's probably the basis of our entire friendship. We don't have anything else in common if we're being really honest, besides our age, I guess. I mean, I barely like you, except if we're talking about.

I barely know you. Unless we're talking about the dolls, there's not much else to talk about. We're literally left speechless. It's, it's crickets. It's really a problem. It's really a problem. Well, Chris, it's sadly time for us to wrap this episode up. What song do you want to leave our listeners with?

for the lasting goo-go-go-dolls feeling. I would like to end on a note, a song that I, a little more emotional, Yossi. A little more emotional? We're going to get more, every one of these songs has tugged at all of my heartstrings. Yeah, but this is a little, this is, I mean, it's sonically more emotional.

You know what I mean? Okay. I'm ready. Oh, God, I know what you're going to play. I cannot wait. I cannot wait. Sympathy? you like this? Okay, let's go, baby. Sympathy from the Goo Goo Dolls from the album,

Gutter Flower. Fucking play us out. Let's go. If you liked what you heard today, subscribe to more episodes of Bansplaine, only on Spotify. Big shouts to Chris Black for reigniting our feelings for the Gougu Dolls. Check out Chris's podcast with his life partner, Jason, How Long Gone, also on Spotify. And follow him on Twitter and Instagram at Dun to Death Projects. Bansplaine is a Spotify original series produced in partnership, with Spoke Media. This episode was produced and edited by Cody Hoffmackle, with help from Sherita Linsoles, Dylan Rupert, and Carson McCain. Mixing and sound designed by Will Short.

Our executive producers for Spoke Media are Alia Tavocelian, Keith Reynolds, and Janiel Kastner. Our executive producers for Spotify are Liz Gaetly, Gina Delvac, and me, Yossi Soak. Our catchy and gorgeous theme song was composed by Bethany Cosentino and Jennifer Clavin, and graciously recorded by Carlos Delagarsa. Thank you to our Goo Goo Dolls fans who provided their voices for this episode, Phoebe Wilson, Sam James Valdi, Veronica Pulcini, and Libby Waltz. Special thanks to Felipe Guillermo,

Leah Edwards, David McDenna, Dana Meyerson, and the frame drawing of Dave Matthews I Got on Deep Pop, who spirit guides this entire show.