Bandsplain - The Indie Sleaze Draft with Rob Mahoney and Sean Fennessey

Episode Date: October 1, 2026

It’s draft day, and Yasi is joined by Rob Mahoney and Sean Fennessey for a generational Indie Sleaze Draft. But first, what actually counts as indie sleaze? Are the Strokes so important that they get their own category? And can you win by simply drafting Yeah Yeah Yeahs in every category? (You can if you draft with your heart.) Plus: the return of Sparks (not the band)! Subscribe on YouTube CREDITS: Host: Yasi Salek @yasisalek Guests: Rob Mahoney @robmahoney and Sean Fennessey @seanfennessey Producer: Rob Sundermann  Editor: Adrian Bridges Additional Production Supervision: Justin Sayles Theme Song: Bethany Cosentino Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. What's with this band anywhere? I don't get it. Can you please explain? Wait, like, Bansplain? Hello and welcome to Bansplain. I am your host, Yassi Salick. This is usually a show where I invite an expert guest on to help me explain a cult band or iconic artist. But today's episode is a little different.

Today's episode is one of my legally mandated Ringer-approved draft episodes. It is a draft under the theme of Indiesleys. We will get into what exactly that term means shortly. But first, I would love to introduce my guests who are not really sleazy at all, actually, in the end. Jonathan Fennessey and Robert Mahoney, welcome to the program. Hi. Thanks for having us. I mean, I'm happy to be here.

It's kind of like you're in a little bit of a hostage situation. My whole life is a hostage situation. And then I am the captor. That's the irony. Yes, yes. I have Stockholm syndrome of being held by myself. And you live in Stockholm. Yeah.

And I live, well, in a way, in a sense. Yeah. The other day I was like, my fucking boss won't give me a day off. And then I was like, and who is that? It's me. You guys, thank you so much for doing this with me. I know, Rob, for you, it might have a different tone and tenor. For Sean and myself, I think it's a bit hard.

This is an interesting experiment because we are. a little bit older than you. Yeah. And but I think that little bit kind of shatters what our expectations are of this conversation. Yeah. And we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we've, not spoken about what we think this is that we're about to do.

Yeah. What Indy Sleeze is? I think, I think we should tackle the elephant in the room. Okay. Head on, which is, what is indieslease? What is, what does that term mean? I mean, obviously, it's like a post facto catch-all. upon much

reflection it's really meant to describe a subculture and less of a musical genre and maybe has more to do with the subcultures

like fashion and partying proclivities but then I kind of was like is that a lot of genres like you could kind of say that about grunge too like the bands

that are all kind of categorize as grunge don't all sound the same they kind of dressed the same and maybe like we're in the same milieu, but they didn't sound the same. So I was wondering what you guys were thinking. Well, we're only 20,000 hours into Bandspoint history, and we've just discovered that this is in fact what genres are.

It only took five and a half years and nearly 200 episodes. Yeah. I mean, I think it's 100% more lifestyle than it is music in that vein. What qualifies for the purposes of this draft? I really don't know. I would say especially on the dance end of the spectrum. Right. Because for me, so much of Indy Slee's is, do you like rock music?

Do you like dance music? Do you like dance music in your rock music? But like, is Robin Indy Slee's? I really couldn't tell you, even though contemporaneously and stylistically, kind of. Yeah. I think I've been getting the roots of Indies confused for what I think the general public believes it to be. Yeah. Like I dropped the term into Spotify, and the first thing that came up was a very long playlist that someone had compiled.

Okay. And I would say only about 22% of the songs that appeared there, I thought, qualified. I don't know, but some of that... But I'm not the arbiter of the term. So I'm open-minded here about what it is we're doing. We're all too old to be the arbiter of this term. Right. Who came up with the term? Do you know? I have no idea. It's, I was reading, actually, this incredible article, you guys should read it by the great Megan Garvey. She wrote a piece about it in GQ, like, two years ago. she kind of posits that like it has taken the place of the word hipster which I thought was actually genius because that is what we said back then

in pejoratively like nobody wanted to be called a hipster but we all I mean I can't speak for you guys but I absolutely was with my Janet from Three's Company haircut and my full American apparel and my like beat up sneakers and going to Sin a Space Tuesday is like I was fully a card carrying hipster

but that word I guess just fell by the way wayside or didn't apply anymore. And so they've retroactively, and I think it's young people. Because to your point about that, Indiesley's playlist, what shocked me about it is there's many contemporary songs, like, that came out this year. Were there? Yeah, like the dare is on there, for example.

Who's obviously very much in the lineage of like an LCD or whatever. Two Hollis is on there. There's a lot of music that might be considered like hyperpop that falls, Frost Children, fuckers, like, that lives on that playlist too. Right. It was the intention behind this Indies Lee series because we're at the quarter century mark of this movement being born, even though it wasn't called that at that time. Or did you just think you wanted to do it? I didn't really think about that. Okay. I love an anniversary. I'm always thinking it that way. Yeah. That's why they pay you the big bucks.

Yeah, for sure. That's what it is me knowing numbers. Yeah, I occupy the space of instinct, intuition. A freely evolving artist. Yeah. But it is crazy that it's 25 years. That, like, I was trying to kind of do some back of the napkin math on the way here, but I'm not a woman in STEM and I'm bad at math. But I was thinking about like, because yesterday was, we're recording this on September 25th. Yesterday was the anniversary of Nirvana, nevermind. And I was like, okay, in 1991, how long ago was the Beatles?

You shouldn't talk about this in front of rock. Famously does not enjoy smells like teen spirit. I have no comment. Or even Nirvana? We will deal with you later on that. because it's you're wrong and it's not your fault really. Thanks. Whose fault is it?

You know, it's like he's just misled. Right, right. He needs education. It's like being born into a cult. Exactly. So me being waterboarded is bonus content? I don't know. Yeah, yeah.

Well, after dark. But I think that's about right. I mean, I've been lambasted in the comments for like not knowing the exact 10-year years of the Beatles because I'm not a fucking loser. But I think it's roughly. 25 years before 1991, does that sound right? Yeah. Yeah, 67-ish.

Yeah, yeah. The tail end for sure. So basically, that is us in 1991 talking about the Beatles is us talking about the strokes right now in 2026, which is so insane. I think this is part of the reason. It's really upsetting. It's very upsetting. But it's also part of the reason to me why, like, hipster didn't stick.

It was like, that's too broad to last 25 years. In the same with the, like, blog wave was never going to be the last. definition of what this kind of music was. Yeah, and I feel like hipster is kind of an offshoot of a previous identification of try hard, cool kids from the 50s and 60s and the sort of post-beat beat Nick, you know, trying to be more open-minded and liberal about you with the way that you experience the world and think about art and a pose is really, I think, a pretty significant part of it. And hipster and poser are kind of interwoven to each other.

and this is like, I don't feel like this lifestyle is about pretending to be anything. I think what it's about is, it started out as about pretending to go back to something. Yeah. A kind of regression to form that we had lost something in the culture of the music. But then it kind of interestingly evolves into, I don't know if it's a new kind of music per se, but it felt very new at the time. Like in 2005, it did feel like I was like, I'm not sure we've had music quite like this before. Right. But you know what's interesting is that I was, we just did an episode on The Raptures House of Jealous lovers is the episode before this. And I was like, it is just like enough time passes and people forget everything. But we had gang a four. We had ESG. We had like, there was a lot of precursor to that sound of music. I think the sound of music. But I think it's the packaging. It's back to the subculture of it, right? The packaging was different. The subculture was different.

Vice Magazine was around. Yeah. I think there's something in the DJ culture and the party club culture that that's the thing they felt new to me. Yeah. And you and I spoke about this because I think you and I are pretty similar in this, is that there was a real crossover with hip hop. Yeah. Which didn't so much exist in previous rock subcultures. You know.

You'd have walk this way. You'd have Blondie with Fat Fight Freddy. Of course. You have a couple things over the years. It was almost more like, here's like peanut butter and jelly. Like that was that. Yeah. Where this was just like we, it was all we were in a soup, you know?

Like you would have people like us who like listen to backpack wrap and also. And that was actually a sect of Indiesl as my friend Crystal Moselle reminded me of that. She was like we were streetwear indie sleeves. Which was a total thing. And that's like I felt like that was my life, you know. Well, Yassi and I lived in New York at the time when this is happening. Like from where you were, you were in Texas at the time. So like, how did you perceive it?

What did you think it was? Did you even think about it as a genre? I mean, the early part, no, just because it was still so emergent and it felt like, oh, this is indie rock or alt rock, like, adjacent. And then I would say it really kind of started crystallizing, forming into what we now know is indie sleeves when I was in college. And so, like, for me, genre-wise, a lot of this music is like stuff that I may or may not have downloaded on oink while, like, trying to maintain my ratio in a college dorm room is kind

of like the vibe. But also so much of this scene and this identity to me is like at a distance. I'm in Austin, Texas at UT. I'm seeing, I'm reading these blogs, I'm seeing photos. I'm seeing like glimpses of, especially what things are like in New York. And like that lifestyle is like in the club at these parties day to day. And I'm like, how do I connect with that idea from here? And really, the only way I could do it was by listening to the music and reading these things.

But it was very much at a distance and very online for me at that time. The funny thing is, though, like, I feel like we lived it that way too, where, sometimes I would be at a party where Cobra Snake would be taking photos but then other times I would just be at home alone, not at the party, just looking at Cobra snakes. Well, Realheads will remember Polaroid scene, which is what it was called

in the beginning. That's right. Me and my Nike dunks were featured several times. Yeah, the internet is a huge part of it, right? And party photographers are a huge part of it. The documentation of the fashion and the general hedonism.

It was kind of, you know, in a way, like a really perfect place before everything became too much where it's like you didn't have cell phones. So everyone wasn't capturing the moment. But there is documentation. So you could be free and do bad kids stuff. Yeah. But you also have like all this, these amazing, you know, historical artifacts from that time. I wonder, too, how much of that, too, is, like, I think that's, for one, the motivating factor behind the revival today.

Like, so much of the music and attempt to, like, recapture the fashion of this time is grasping at an era that younger people didn't get to be a part of, where those concerns weren't a part of it. And also, like, weirdly enough, the difference between the very, like, digital camera, high flash photography at a party. Yeah. It's like, yes, it was online and living in a particular space, but, like, it was so. separate from everything else because it wasn't, it was such a different form of capturing and photography that no one would like pull it into your job interview in the way that now, if you're posting things to your Instagram

or posting things online anywhere, it's like it's just following you like a shadow all the time. And I feel like this was, there was at least a half step removed for that stuff. But it did sort of birth influencing, like the narcissism of the individual that you could be a bit of a star, you know, with, without maybe actually doing anything. Yeah.

That was that kind of... I feel like a lot of people emerged out of those photographs and became, I don't know about well-known, but known to the public. Cultural figures. Yeah, I mean, I do think a lot of people think about this, and I sent you guys this because I think it's an important part of the revival and this term that Indiesly's Instagram account, which goes all over the place.

But I think a big part of it is kids want to party. Kids want to do cocaine. Yeah. Well, the big part of it is that people want to do cocaine and drink spark. Yeah, they do. And maybe they are. It's none of my business anymore, but for a while they weren't, you know? And it's post-COVID.

You know, I really feel like I remember this term getting a swell kind of out of, don't you feel like it was like around that? I guess it's in the arc of nostalgia than you're looking at somewhere between 10 and 20 years since something has happened. And it kind of picks up steam again. I personally came at this from a very different perspective because I wasn't doing COVID. gain in 2002. In 2002. Or ever. But I

wanted to try to be a music journalist. And I wanted to be in the scene but not partying with rock stars. I was like interested in going to shows and covering the music. And the first interview that I ever did in my entire career was with my friend Ryan Domble, who I went to high school with, who went on to be a long time editor Pitchfork. Before either of us wrote for pitchfork, we were writing for a website called newmew.net. Oh yeah.

I've been referencing a lot in my in my research. And we interviewed half of Interpol in the basement of the Bowery Ballroom in 2002, 2003. I can't remember what year it was.

And we just hung out with them. Post turned on the bright lights. Post turned right after it came out or maybe right before it came out. And at the time, I was like, this is what you do. Almost famous had come out and I learned that this is what you do.

You have drinks in the basement for two hours of Paul Banks. You're asking her, what they like about music. You're totally that kid. you're like, Paul Banks is the coolest man to ever exist. And what I came to learn what, I had talked to musicians before, what I came to learn was that he was as nervous as I was.

And that he actually wasn't that cool. And he was really nice. Yeah. And I thought a really good front man. But that... Also, Paul Banks is like three years older than us. That's right. Which is really crazy, right?

He's not like, this was like some person that was like a decade older than us. Yeah. No, it's exactly right. And so I think that was a nice entryway for that. And I mean, I went to a ton of shows and saw a ton of bands in that part of the world. My interned at Spin Magazine, and I was writing about music in 2004. So, like, I was really entrenched in it, though I was never very cool in it, but I really loved it. I loved this music very much, even though I was kind of more naturally a hip-hop kid.

I thought this was, like, the coolest thing going in music at the time. And then I felt like in real time, I aged out. Like, as like, hollertronics was rising and the, like, clubbier, more hip-hop party scene component of it started happening, I was like, this isn't really my thing. Right. I'm more interested in the music. I think what's so interesting is that they were both happening at once, and then they converged. Like, the first Fisher-Spooner single is 2000, right? So you can kind of trace back the electronic electro-clash, if you want to term it that way, arm of Indieslasele's to that, you know, to Larry T's parties, Berlin-Niamsburg, I think it was called.

Larry T. I think actually coined the term Electro Clash. And then at the same time, you had the Strokes, who also were playing in 2000, put out their first EP in 2001. And then slowly, it sort of started to overlap, right? Because the Yayas and the Strokes are playing these like warehouse parties in Brooklyn that also have DJs.

It all sort of converged into one scene. Yeah. I think it's interesting. It is. Why did that happen? I think my theory is that because hip hop was the dominant form of music culturally at that time, that it was sort of like kind of drafting off of the energy that I think hip hop was giving more commercially. Yeah. Because when you ultimately look at the record sales of the biggest artist from this time,

they're not the biggest artists of all time. It was 50 cent, get rich or die try it. Everywhere you went, every party, it doesn't matter what kind of party it was, you're going to hear a 50 cent in the club. Thank God. Yeah. We used to be a proper country. Great song.

And this is still such like, I mean, speaking to your hip hop. and rock intersection, like, still like a very Lincoln Park kind of era. Yeah. Very much like a creed puddle of mud stained kind of like post-grungy era. Yeah. So like this stuff is ascend... Here's the thing. If you're in a very particular bubble, a ratat-tat song will seem like the biggest thing on the fucking planet. Sure. But if you're outside that bubble, it's like, oh, literally no one knows what this is. And I think the wanting to protect that and wanted to cultivate that is probably some of how these movements came together too. It's like, oh, if we joined forces, this is a little bit stronger,

but also still so much our thing. Yeah. And I think like this might be me like over intellectualizing it, but I do kind of feel like it was such a reaction to that by being like, hold on. Like Rock has gotten way too like bro-y, hyper, you know, Fred Durst. And like we need to bring back gayness and women and people of other cultures. No doubt.

And, you know, a lot of that is present in what we. I guess kind of now term indie slays, you know? It didn't start that way. I mean, Karenow was the exception and not the rule at first, and it evolved pretty quickly. Even the gauthiness of it, you know? Like, even like the intrapole bringing kind of their like goth post-punk thing. That's an outsider approach to things. But yeah, Karenow, but even TV on the radio and there's a lot, there was a lot going on.

The strokes are, I read some tweet the other day that was like, the strokes were the most multicultural band because they're like, French and and and and I was like, you all need to know. But I think that I think the movement needed a kind of white boy rock band so that the press could kind of rally around them in a traditional way. You could have 45 year old rock journalists saying like something is back. Particularly I think and as I'm a huge Anglophile I understand this propensity because I have it with Englishness that the English are like so

susceptible to five American guys with dirty hair being like, we're bringing rock back. They, like, cannot fucking contain themselves. And it doesn't matter, like, if it's actually authentic or whatever. Like, they are buying it. They are buying it, and they are selling it back to us. And that's what happened with the strokes, you know? And the bros are still here for those with eyes to see. You know, it's like there is that theatricality and, like, a, let's say, slight diversification

of who is allowed to be in a popular band in a movement. but like this is still a this is still a bros bro kind of moment. And I don't know how you guys feel, but like I don't have any beef with the term Indy Slee is like, I don't care. You know, like no one called Joy Division post-punk in the moment. And it's no one likes being grouped into a thing. But I'm not a linguist, but like at this point when you say Indieslies, most people roughly know what you're talking about. There might be like quibbles about like exact, but like it worked. Like the word is working.

You kind of have to let it go. I feel like frequently throughout this draft will have to say, does this qualify? And maybe everything qualifies. I think you'll have to make your case. Yeah. But like, can I just throw one out that I'm curious about your feelings? Just for as a temp check. Because this is kind of early days, though, not the absolute origin point.

MIA. Absolutely. Totally. Because she was, I think Elaine came out originally in 2003, but really, hit in 2005. Yeah. And I remember being at a part, like a record release party for, was Aralara the first record? Yeah.

And feeling like I was, I was actually at something that mattered, which is stupid maybe to say now. But I was like, this is what I have been working towards. Like, this is why I went to journalism school, which is pathetic in retrospect. But like, every rock critic who I thought was cool was there. There were a lot of beautiful people there. That's a major album. It's important.

I'm a huge fan. I was a huge fan then. I was a huge fan of, especially those first three. records. But I actually felt like I was like I'm in a, I'm in a historical popular music moment. I mean, you were. Like I don't, I'm trying to sort through whether or not that's true. I think if we did this podcast and never said the words paper planes, it would be a dereliction of duty. And it's like, to the history of that moment, that song is, I would say, still the leading cause of finger guns in this country for going on decades now. So like, if that's not history, what is? Wait till

digger comes out. That's all I'm going to say. Wow. Put a tease. Put money in the the pocket of the clash too, which is important. Yeah, and my accounts, I mean, we talked about this, like Amanda Blank, Spank Rock, you know, all of that stuff counts to me. Yeah. Okay. There's like a whole other strain, but I'll hold it on whether or no, I think it counts. I have one clarifying question on this ground as well. Things that are stylistically and like fashion-wise, incredibly indie slees, but musically, I would say not even close. Like, is Amy Winehouse indie slits? No. Okay. I would say no as well. That's just my gut. I, I agree with you.

I agree with you. I'm just wondering where the lines are. No, but just like the vibe, the sense of style, the kind of... I would say her look is as influential on a very particular strain of in these days as much as anything else. Totally. You know, being contemporaneous with like the libertines and things like that, you know? I mean, doing drugs doesn't make it in these leaves. It helps.

I think it's a component. It helps, you know? Well, like a question, one that I was wondering about, this is going to... It's so funny. What we put forward is so, like, telling of what... I was like, do pretty girls make graves count? And I kind of feel like, no. I feel like that was just closer to straight up.

It's like post-punk. It's post-hark. But they put out a release on Dimmac. So it's like, it really is funny how everything was sort of. But yeah, I agree. I don't think they totally count. Mm-hmm. But I was like, oh, I could maybe if I wanted to make the case.

Yeah. One thing that like I feel like I'm interested to see, because I think Rob your references will be later, I just kind of don't know much past 2000. six because I was like, checked out, don't care. Like, don't know what's happening. Do not recognize this. So I'll let you have at it.

I'm glad to speak from my subgeneration. It's very important. It is, you know what? And I think the last thing I want to say about this, like you pointed out, Sean, that it's a return, right, a revival. And I don't think that that it's a coincidence that it came with the internet, right? Because the internet, I feel like kind of stops time. like in terms of the progression of things.

Like once the internet comes around, it's so much easier to take from the past. And I do feel like we start to see that a lot. Not to Mark Fisher, but Mark Fisher said the feeling of belatedness of living after the gold rush is as omnipresent as it is disavowed. And I feel like that really fit here, right?

It's like these, the idea of like, oh, we're going to be the Rolling Stones. like we missed it or like for for I think what how people were looking at New York was like the the heyday of CBGBs right and the idea that if you lived in New York and I felt this way when I got to New York in 2004 I was like it's over everything's over I should have been here in the 90s I didn't feel that way about music I did feel that way about the music media I did feel that way about magazines and all that stuff the music itself I was like this is fucking amazing I mean I was also a huge white stripes fan which were not a New York band no but they were part of this yeah and they were part of this yeah and they were part of this yeah and they They were firing and seeing them live was incredible. Yeah. And so, like, there were, I've, I had moments of transcendence watching the music where I was, I didn't get stuck in my own cynicism. And that's part of the reason why, like, I'm very happy to be here and talk about this stuff. Because I really love this era of music.

I love that I moved to New York in 2004 to become a music journalist just as all magazines collapsed. I think it was wonderful timing. You could have been a legend and now you are a legend. There you go. I became a podcast. Now you're doing a podcasting magazine. Congratulations. Thank you so much.

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free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. Okay, let's talk about the categories really quick. We're doing best band, best front person, best song, best album, best blank strokes, which is basically about the idea that the strokes launched a thousand chips and you could kind of easily point to the bands that they inspired globally and within the country. And a wild card because we love a wild card here. Great.

Other Rob, what is the draft order? It is. Rob Moody, Yasi, and Sean. Wow. Okay, great. The turn. You have the turn. Yeah.

That's good, right? Sure. Okay. There are no losers today. There really are. I mean, three drafters, we're going to get a lot of good stuff. I mean, I have to start with Best Band, and I'm going to pick the strokes. Okay.

That's the number one. I feel like I'm drafting the Godfather, but, like, sometimes you just have to sit here and draft the Godfather. Not this guy being like Nirvana. is mid and then being like the best band in this draft is the strokes. I see you is what I'm saying. Clocked. I'm just saying. I'm clocked your tea.

Look, I'm happy to be clocked. I'm happy to sit here in front of you and everybody else and say the strokes are in fact good. So I don't think I particularly need to defend them, but incredible discography, I'm sure we'll talk about it more and more. I am curious from both your perspectives as far as what qualifies. Like, I think the Strokes' 2020 album is one of their best albums. I don't know at that point if they're still indie sleased as. Indie Sleece still exists?

Isn't Indie Slee's band always Indie Slee's? Oh, that's a good question. Or is it once the movement is over, everybody goes home? There's so much I want to like ask you about this statement because this is something that I discovered in my Strokes research, which was like news to me, that an entire generation, which I presume is your generation, is like obsessed with late era strokes. Well, like their most streamed song on Spotify is not from the first two albums. No.

Which shocked and all of me. Yeah. Because I didn't really. What is it? Probably the adults are talking. I think it is the adult are talking. Really? A fucking banger.

Wow. Man, this is a real act in making you feel old. It is. It's the adults of talking. More than last night. That is surprising. Yeah, I mean, to me, this band, I always love this band, obviously. They're kind of critical to, I was 19 when this record came out. An amazing act of being marketed to, you know?

I really feel like the package that they put together, the sense of style, album cover, the way that they looked, the way they were like simultaneously aping the Ramones and like wire at the same time was very appealing and the way that the first album is produced

and the way that the guitar sound and the way that it feels like it's slightly underwater. Yeah, the vocal. The like the far away vocal is very interesting. And the way that the press like aided, especially the British press, as you said, like ate it up and communicated to us how much it mattered which did work. Like, hype does work sometimes. And it really worked for them.

But I also thought the songs were good, and I loved listening to the records. I love the first two records. Rob, how did you come across them? How old were you? I was in high school. It was definitely through the singles off of Is This It? It's like last night it was probably like the shot across the bow

of like, what the fuck is this? Yeah. And then, I mean, you start, especially you start digging into that record. It's like you would be lucky as any kind of band to have a last night, a hard to explain. a someday, a this, like the modern age, like if you get any of those songs on your first record or any record,

you're doing something very right, but it's so stacked. To be fair, it's crazy when people don't say the strokes are bad. Like, you're insane. No, they're great. I worked at a record store in college and so, like, that I had

a co-worker who looked like Rivers Cuomo who showed me the strokes and the white stripes, like, from jump. It might have even been the EP on the strokes, and I was like, hell yeah, brother. and my best friend in college was convinced she was going to marry Nick Valencia. Did it work out? It did not happen.

He likes older women. Life is long. Yeah. I grew up in New York and we would go into the city on the weekends and go record shopping. And I remember my friend buying the modern age. I didn't buy it. But he was like, this is this matters. Yeah.

This is a moment in time. And it kind of was. They had a really charmed Forrest Gump-esque ascent. assent into, you know, being big. But didn't, but we're not like Def Leopard, you know, like they didn't sell 20 million albums. No, no, they were lapped by Kings of Leon and the Killers and many of the bands that came in their wake, actually.

But they still snuck into that, like, you'll hear one of these songs at the grocery store kind of lane. So it's like, just big enough and, I mean, certainly sell out and play monster venues. Yeah. Yeah. But last night was hard in rotation on MTV, like on TRL. Yeah.

Totally. Totally. Okay, you have a pick. I do. Okay, I'm going to go best front person Because I want to stake my claim Early for Carineau Yes, yeah

This is the number two overall pick in my opinion I think, yeah, it has to be These to me are the two most competitive categories In that category? No, I think like if you had to do the big board Of value, it goes strokes and Caron O in the top two That is, I think that's right I wouldn't strokes was, wasn't my top one for the fan

So I already knew that that was not going to be a problem Sorry, that's- You're an iconoclast and you always have been It's just not how I feel I think Karen O, and I said this on the Yeah, IAS podcast, I think she's one of the greatest from people that's ever existed. She's like the mixture of

performance and wildness and also like, I don't know how to say it. Like she has, you could tell she has within her this like negative charisma thing that Kurt Cobain and them had. It's like a very like look at me, but also don't look at me. and she's just so uninhibited and free and her voice is so cool

and she wasn't afraid to look ugly and she's not ugly she's a beautiful woman that's not what I'm saying but she wasn't afraid to be sort of monstrous on stage yeah to like to have this very like primal you know

carnal pose on stage which I think you know I think puts her in a class of her own she's incredible. Well it kind of she needed that cognitive split, I think, of clearly separating who I am on stage, of understanding more than literally anyone else who's ever lived. Sometimes you need to, like, down a few margaritas and cover yourself an olive oil and go to work. And boy, does she do it. Like, I just

think what she's able to channel in terms of chaos and raw power is just unlike anything else that we're going to talk about today. But then also, like, so much vulnerability. Yes. You know, and all in one package, I think it's amazing. And also to see, like, a Korean-American woman occupy that space after like decades of that not being a situation, I think was really important. I think there's something really surprising about the first album too,

which, you know, like there's not, there was no indication that a MAPS was coming from the band. Like if you were listening to them and listening to the EPs, they were like Yeah, they're like really punky. Really punky. Yeah. And noise, like a noise rock band. And she was screaming and screeching at the top

of her lungs on every song. And so it, the first album feels like a little bit of a revelation in that way, where they also sort of like instantaneously went pop in a way that you might not have been expecting if you were in New York at the time? Right, if you were experiencing them in real time. But like once you like kind of research the trajectory, you see that like, oh, she was writing, you know, folk songs before that.

She was playing a sidewalk cafe. Her and Nick Zinner had a more like foky project called Unitard. So it was all kind of there underneath the yas of it. So it makes perfect sense that once it was time to make an album, you're going to go back to some of those. songs too and sort of even out and it's the out that album just off I think I think I think it's case for it is the best album of this whole period of time but I have like a point of order question so if you've taken Karen O no no we already things yeah yeah yes

we said no okay I don't like those I don't like that restriction so like fever to tell is on the board it's on the board if you were to tell might be my most listened to album it's from this from this particular movement it's really up there for me it's it's psychotic yeah for a first album. It's under 40 minutes. It is perfectly paced. And it's a real side A

yeah, yeah. Someone's going to draft it. I'm like, I don't want to be boring and follow YayAAS with YayAs, but it's like and it's Dave C. Tech, right? Who is in TV on the radio and is producing at the time in the scene in Brooklyn. And I don't think they ever got

close to this feeling ever again. I really like some of the later albums, but maybe I'll just just take a break on the IAS and think about what I should take instead. Okay. So we've got a band and a front person off the board. You're always thinking about the entertainment, and I appreciate that about you. I mean, my favorite band is Dwight Stripes from this period.

Yeah, be honest. I have to just take that. Go with your heartbeat. And it probably won't be the last time I talk about them. To your question earlier about, like, as you get older, are you still doing it? Like, Jack White is not making indie slees right now. I listen to the new Jack White album, and I was like, this is pretty cool. But, like, it's just so iterative of the last five solo albums that he's made.

And the absolute fury, not of white blood cells to me, but the first two albums, which I think are, and we talked about it when we did the episode, which is a very long episode of Bansplained. Sean Fennesse on the White Strab's band playing. But, you know, whatever he was cooking up at that time in his upholstery studio, recording on like 8 track. I don't know. It sounds like shit, but sounds like the best, to me, it sounds like the best rock and roll music, like, ever recorded. It is up there with, you know, Chuck Berry and fucking early Rolling Stones albums. Like, I think it's just so raw and primal and fun. Really bold.

And I just, I really fell in love completely with that band. And seeing that band when I was living in New York was very powerful because obviously they were just the duo. And Meg was entrancing, intoxicating. So much of their coolness comes from that part of the band. Yeah. And watching them kind of work together and watching him like set the timing on every, song and just like them just like sharing a glance. And at the time, the faux mystery, are they brother and sister? Are they married? The marriage certificate, you know, all the stuff we learn.

Oh my God, they're divorced now. Like all of that stuff was just a really fun little wrinkle. I don't know if they were like indie sleazy, which. Kind of. They were very rocked to me. Yeah. They were like, that's where like the boundaries get blurred, right? They were part of that first wave. So in that sense, genre-wise, you have to count them. Yeah. But they were in Detroit. They were not they were way more straightforward.

Totally. And like Jack, it's a really interesting comparison, Jack White to Julian Casablanca's, because like, there was no way in hell Julian Casablanca's was going to be the man representing rock and roll for the next three decades in like at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. You know what I mean? That was going to be Jack White because that's

like what his positioning on. on Earth is. Yep. That's not what Julian Casabongas was about, which does make the strokes a little more sleazy. It's also what makes them more indie. So your point, Sean, about what Jack White and the white stripes become.

Like, if you've written maybe the most identifiable melody in human history, can you also be indie? And I think at this point, the answer is still yes because Seven Nation Army hasn't taken on that life yet. Well, we haven't even litigated the indie term of it because many of these bands were on major labels. The strokes were immediately on a major label. It's true.

doesn't, who's indie really? I mean, the white stripes were indie. Like, I think they were on sympathy for the music industry. It was the first record, maybe even the second record, too. And that, I mean, that's a tiny label in the Midwest. So at the beginning, yes, but I wasn't really up on them. I wasn't list. Maybe Distill was, like, communicated to me as a record you should buy,

but I wasn't so deep in the weeds on this particular strain of music. It was really only when the singles for White Blood Cells hit. But I immediately went back, and when I did go back, Those are still the albums that I love the most. And the other thing was just like the color coordination, the quality of the music video. Like they had a package that was very conceived but also felt very handmade that I think is kind of essential to the first stages of this stuff. Okay. I feel comfortable with that.

I'm happy for you. I have another pick, right? Yes. Then I'll kind of go to the complete flip side and take House of Jealous Lovers by the Rapture. Best song. Which for Best Song, which I think is like kind of the er text, right? It's sort of like the foundational idea for the genre. Can you tell me what that means?

It usually means like the first of something. Okay. The er text? Yeah. Okay. Got it. She's learning. I do.

And sort of like the first and the sort of essential, like the most definitive. Yeah. But also kind of unlocks like Rosetta, stoneish, everything. Because like, yeah, if you wanted to be really like pedantic, you would say the Fisher Spooner song is first. but this is the song that sort of like launches the genre. And makes it like kind of pop. Yeah. Not totally pop because this wasn't a song that you would see on MTV, but in New York, it was pop.

It was coming on and you were throwing us. Yeah. And you were drinking sparks and you were throwing us. To me, this, they're very similar to the AAS where if you listen to that, you know, out of the races and onto the tracks. Right. It's like a noise rock band. They're just like trying to be gang of four or wire. Well, they came out of the hardcore scene in San Diego.

They were like an indie rock band. They were signed a sub pop, you know. Yeah. And that stuff sounds so, so, so different once they put a backbeat on their songs. But sometimes you meet James Murphy and your whole life changes, babe. Yeah. Yasi, I think you introduce a great litmus test as far as what is indie sleaze and what is not. Would you throw ass to this is like as close as we're going to get to Potter Stewart in this debate?

I don't know if you're going to like throw ass to Interpol. Someone might. You might. I assure you someone has. That's true. You're right. You're so right. It's a fucking amazing song. There's not enough cowbell, in my opinion. Agreed. You might say you'd want more. More cowbell. Yeah, it's incredible. That whole album, honestly, echoes, like, start to finish is. I think people really forget how good that album is. Huge fan. Great, great pick. Thank you.

Okay. I'm going to try to be strategic since I know I'm with two of the most competitive drafters on the planet. No losers today. Are there usually losers? Of course. Okay. Especially when Mahoney McGee over here is like trying to swoop in and take pictures of people. Come on. Like what?

I thought the point was to draft good stuff. And I feel like I'm villainized for doing that. I'm done. I'm just, I'm just curious. You just seem very competitive. You're very interested in winning. I want to talk about the stuff I like.

And if that stuff overlaps with the stuff you like, I'm sorry to say. It may just be on my board. Should I be interesting or should I be honest? Both. I always say honest Because I have I have two Okay first of all

You don't always say honest I do always say honest I saw you sit there in front of me And many of our friends And who knows how many listeners And draft inception A movie you don't even like And what did I say it was out of 10

Six out of 10 many people Was that honest or was that not honest? I guess you were honest But the selection was not honest That's not authentic with your heart That you love it No exactly It's a game

That's not honest Games are not about only honesty Oh I see Games are about success With truth. What a narrative we have woven here. I think we all come from different places here, I guess. Look at your notes.

Oh, my goodness. You know how I, you know how. Wow. Well, you guys just seem to, you have that thing where you remember everything. I'm in perimenopause, honey. I'm leudial as hell. I simply cannot be grasping for information. Well, I just mean you've written a great amount of detail next to every potential choice.

She loves a doc. You do love a doc. I don't love a doc, too. I'll do best band. Okay. And I'm going to do yay. I'm sorry that that's boring Wow

It's not though But that is I really believe that with my heart and soul I think that is the best band Of this entire milieu I think they are head and shoulders Above everyone else I think they were more interesting

I think they were more boundary pushing I think if you look at their The totality of their discography It is better and more even And as a whole more listenable I mean, it's Blitz, bitch. Come on.

Come on. Heads will roll. The Heads Will Roll remix also. By DJ A track. It's one of those kind of critical documents of this entire movement. I think are really, not me holding my emotional support for post-o flags. I think that Yaya's really straddle in a way both the strains of Indies that we've talked. about because like they have like as to your point many songs you can throw ass to also they really

corded the um DJ culture you know you have many diplo remixes you have a track remixes you have all these I think they had a really good the faint remix did I make that up um just like incredible versions of their songs which were already hard hitting and beat driven but like I think I just think they're platonic ideal for me of an indie sleaze band well especially becoming more beat driven over time, like starting out more in that screaming, snarling rock style we're talking about and getting into its Blitz era in particular, which is like so dancey and also so turned down whenever it wants to be. Yassi, it was like genuinely shocking listening to your episode about Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hearing that Carino doesn't think she has a great or like conventional voice.

Shocked me. I mean, she's just the best voice of any band we're going to talk about. I was like, would you like to hear me sing there? Because we can talk about what is or is. Also, I'm sorry, I think justice for what's the album that? Everyone is like kind of like not into the second one no mosquito mosquito is the one I think mosquito is really cool I haven't spent a lot of time with it and I don't I'm not sure if I've even heard cool it down which is really good probably so much cool it down is one of those like shocking late era albums that you're like oh you have no business making an album you know how that happens sometimes like the cure just did it there's like you have no business making an album this

good this many years in. It's amazing. Mosquito's very strange, and I understand why it's a little inaccessible to some people. You have fucking Dr. Octagon as a feature on there. Yeah. Get fucked. Who's cooler than that? I'm sorry. Dr. Octahinaigologist? I can't even say it. Dr. Octagonacologist.

You got it. One of the best albums of all time. Blue flowers. Blue flowers. I have the next pick, right? You do. Let's just continue it, because I'll just select fever to tell on best album. And let's just like get a lot of the that was the one I was like, I'd rather choose. See, This is only proving my point that the, yeah, yeah, the best band.

Yeah. They're taking a lot of board space. Well, plus in the, in the throw-ass litmus test. I think it's... I'm really sorry that I've introduced that term into your beautiful, your beautiful, unblemished brain. I think it's physically impossible to listen to this album and not move. Yassie, if you put a gun to my head and you said you can save your life,

if you just don't tap a toe or dance or head-bang in any way, I would hand you a towel, I would apologize for the mess, and I would say goodbye. What if I put the gun to your head and said, you can win the draft if you don't dance? I'd also think I could do it. I would gladly take the L. I just think like it's, I mean... I had date with the night as my number two song on my best song list. A Ripper.

Yeah. So many of the songs on this album are like under two and a half minutes, too. They're just there in and they're out. Sorry, how many other fucking stone cold rock and roll bangers do you know about a woman masturbating? Not enough. Not enough. That would be a good draft. Day with the Night 2, you can smell the club that that song is being played in.

And I love that visceral part about this album. MAPS becomes this self-evident thing. Why control? Why control? Fuck me up. I think has a great case for the best yeah-ya song, period. All bitterness, all frustration, all this, like, bottled up stuff that makes Karen O go. And so to me, fever to tell.

I've probably spent the most time, as you were saying, Sean, with this album, listening to this album over the years, over and over and over, maps as the gateway drug because that was the song that was being passed around like blog like random blogger.com sites at that point. Also can I make a just case for this being the most

maybe not the best but the most Indies album cover of all time. Oh yeah, I like that. Shout out to Cody Krishlow who did it who is like an incredible artist himself he goes by Sean, but he does music videos and creative direction, art direction, did the perfume genius album. He's like an incredible artist,

but that was his first ever piece of art. He was in art school. And it's so that when I look at that album cover, I'm like, that's what this time looked like and felt like. There's also something about it being an introscope album and it feeling like that pipeline was still

possible where you were like a cool indie band and the major label swooped in and they're like, there's something here. These kids are stars and it going wide and then having a hit single and selling out. And then, you know, Maps is like a legitimately generational classic. Mapp will we played at weddings till Kingdom Come.

Also, they had the best, well, most interesting manager, the most Indiesle's manager, Ossive Ahmed, who managed a lot of these bands, but was apparently an absolute lunatic, and at one point bit Jimmy Iveen's arm at, like a dinner. Like, he was just like a wild person, and I'm obsessed with the stories about him. Come on the pod, awesome.

Okay, whose turn is it now? Is it still Rob? I think it's still me. Rob goes again. I think there are some great songs by the bands we've already named, but I do want to diversify a little bit. There's a version of this draft that is very heavy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, as white striped strokes. Totally. I would like to select instead TV on the radio is Wolf Like Me for the best song. Wonderful. Because are you fucking kidding me with this song? Yeah. My picks for them would have been a little downstream. Earlier.

Yeah. Look, we get it. But Wolf Like Me is great. Look, you have the cooler picks. I'm going to pick instead. Maybe the greatest song ever. I just think, look, if you, first of all, if you have not seen the live performance of the song on Letterman.

Stop this podcast. Unbelievable. Go listen to it. Go watch it. And I think to me, it captures so much of what's special about TV on the radio,

which is all these other bands, like they get the garage element or the club element or the dance element down. This album comes out, return to Cookie Mountain. And it's like, this is a fully actualized,

multi-layered sonic experience from the jump. And Wolf like me is just the pinnacle of that, the energy, the power. I don't think a single song has ever made me want to be in a band

more than this. This song. Just like be on stage, be a part of that energy. It is amazing. It's propulsive. It just like it makes you want to pull in closer for some reason. The weirdest thing ever happened with this song. It showed up in a Spider-Man movie this summer.

Really? Yeah, it's in brand-new day. And it started and I was like, good for them. Where was it in brand-new day? It's near to the beginning. It's during like a montage for Peter. And I was like, wow, I'm fucking old, man. The filmmakers who are making Spider-Man,

movies are in their mid-40s and they are reflecting on their youth in the same way that you just were about how much that song meant to them and they managed to smuggle it into a fucking Spider-Man movie which is now like the biggest movie of all time. Thank God. They deserve it. I hope they got paid a lot of money.

Well, the Spider-Man soundtracks historically, very important text. True, true. So maybe this one will be too. Yeah, a lot of nickelback. A lot of nickel back. A lot of dashboard confessional. True. I'm with Sean. I'm maybe partial to the earlier TV on. Bomb yourself staring at the staring at the sun. Those were the two for me that I fucking loved. They were more of the band that

I felt I got to experience in real time because like that was, I mean, we're not like friends or anything. But I would like, I hung out at Max Fish. Like that's where they were. They were around. Yeah. We went to their shows. Kip and Tunday. They were just a outlet. Yeah. God, they were so good. Yeah. They were so good live. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure they still are. I haven't seen them in a while. Yeah. Yeah. I did. I saw them like last year at maybe just like heaven. That sounds about right. Good pick, Rob. Thank you. Great pick. you're up it's me

I'm gonna do best album I'm gonna do silent alarm by block party thank you block party is incredible they're so good this album

I put it on again this morning and I was just like knocked over by how incredible every song is his voice just like how emotionally jarring and just oh what a

fucking album. I love it. I got to see them play. I think it's Cinespace. I want to say I might be making this up. It's a little bit later, right? It's 2005, but I think they're pretty firmly indie sleighs in this world. Silent Alarm is just like a stone cold classic album. This is one of those emerging from your bubble moments for me where I just assumed everyone had a deep and intimate relationship with the song This Modern Love and then I come out and I'm like, not only do they not, but it's like not even one of the five or six most popular songs on this album somehow. I love that. They also played just like heaven a year or two ago,

and I was like crying when that's like blue light. Yeah. Bye. But obviously banquet is the fucking jam. Bank was good. I mean, helicopter. Helicopter. Like eating glass. Yeah. It's amazing. I don't think people talk about Block Party enough to be honest. Yeah. I feel like they had a pretty precipitous fall off the first two albums. They really changed their sound a bit. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. But he was also and just such a great front man. And, you know, there are a lot of British bands who are part of this, but also not, it's kind of a tricky crossover. You know, you can almost feel them responding to what's happening in New York, which is very different historically from how the way the British invasion so dramatically influenced American bands. But arguably, some of the biggest British, I mean, the Arctic monkeys exist solely because the strokes existed, you know, and now they're.

I suspect they'll come up here. A massive, yes, massive band. Yeah, I mean, they're the single biggest band that's come out of this entire movement. Yeah.

But, you know, the Libertines, many people will live and die for the Libertines. I've got them on a long list somewhere here. And then there's so many more with Claxons. There's a lot more

if you want to, like, really dig down foals, I think, are a British band. Yes. I think it worked in Black Party's favor in such a unique way, though, where it's like they're not

the British band that sounds American in delivery. It's like you hear the accent every syllable. And it's like it gives them such a unique feel right out of the gate. They feel really in the lineage of like a joint division. Like they are a post-punk band, you know, in that, in that direct DNA.

God, I love them. I love that album. Is it double me? No, it's double me. Okay. Okay, let's talk through this a little bit. I'm going to take LCD sound system, LCD sound system. Okay.

The first LCD sound system album. Yeah. Which I think is much like House of Jealous Lovers, like foundational, essential, because the album comes out in 05. there's a lot of LCD songs and mixes that have come before this and James Murphy and Tim Goldstone. Goldsbury? No, Goldsbury?

I believe so. Really? Cold's worthy? Goldsworthy, thank you. See, this is Perry Menny's, honey. This isn't my favorite LCD sound system album, but it is the most important. I probably, if I had to just put them in the CD changer, would put, this is happening in first, then Sound of Silver, then the self-titled album.

but Daft Punk is playing at my house and losing my edge. I think defined something intellectually and attitudeally about the movement that didn't exist before it. There was, because these bands were not meta or self-aware. They were revival acts in a lot of ways.

You could say, yeah, AS push something forward or white stripes were trying to break something that had not been played properly. But this was actually, actually specifically philosophically felt different. And also the songs bang.

They're just good. They're really, really good dance records. And also, if, you know, I was living in New York and going to bars and clubs in 2004, 2005. And you just heard them non-fucking stop. Yeah. James Murphy is like a fascinating character also.

Very much. What an interesting, bizarre person. I never came across him. Like, I never met him. I never interviewed him. I just as, I mean, I don't know him, but just from my research, like, he was already a bit older,

had played in indie rock bands, you know, had stumbled into this, like, insane situation with, like, a borderline benefactor who bought a building and was, like, you can have a studio in it. But also was this, like, savant who, like, you know, pre-sampling

knew every single reference. Just really interesting. And I love the story we told it in the House of Jealous Lovers episode, but, like, you know, he was clearly such a creative person. And, after like funneling his creativity into the rapture. And then, you know, they probably if you ask him, abandoned him.

You know, they left DFA. And, and then in one year, that happened. His parents died and 9-11 happened. And then he made LCD. It's like such like, what an origin story, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And he was like, fuck it.

I'm going to make losing my edge, you know? And then they had to put together a band in like two seconds and go play it in England. Yeah. I was thinking about like, like, comp, comp, comparable movements in recent artistic history. And we don't have a lot of those like in our popular culture. But I was thinking about the Nouvelle Vogue and French cinema and like who are the different figures who represent. And he really is kind of like that.

He's like the Godard. He's the one who's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know everything that happened before this. But in order to go forward, we have to kind of break it and cut away and get down to the barest essence of what is good about this. And I think he does that with punk and with dance music. Like that is what, especially early LCD. is these kind of raw materials records that are so, and they're like arch and funny and compelling.

And they have reverence, but also the irreverence is sort of the point. So just a great band. I think you could make the argument that maybe Sophie is like a later example. Yeah, or no, just like another person that sort of created an entire, not created, but like was the arbiter of this hyperpop thing and was like such a visionary, you know. There's stuff that I'm just not that familiar.

with, you know, we're 44, but I know that there's new movements that are things that are like just not within our parlons. You have two. You have a second one. Okay. So I've got album, song, and band. Correct.

Front person. Is M.I.A. a front person? Not really a band. Isn't M.I.A. just MIA? I don't think it has to, I mean... Just artist or front person. That's fair. I think. You know, I'm not I'm not rigid on this. Okay. I mean,

there are not a lot of solo artists in this movement. Yeah. There's something. Uffy. Sure. That's kind of... I'm kind of... I'm kind of artist.

Third tier. Yeah. Great stuff. Yeah. I mean, if you'll allow it, I think I would go with MIA. Because I think she did... You know, when I first started seeing her and experiencing her,

Diplo was on stage with her. Totally. DJing and a part of that. And they very much felt like a duo. And he produced the entire... first album. Peaches. Yeah. Peaches for sure. And I feel like Peaches predates, even all of this stuff, right? Like late 90s? 2000. Yeah. Yeah, maybe late 90s, but I think her big song was 2000. Right. I mean, she's like a complicated figure now, right? And that's

weird shit. So I'm not representing for all that. But the first three albums... You don't have her protective gear for mind control? No, is that something she sports? Yeah, she, she manufactured it. Should we, should we get some of that? I would love to be gifted. Next spot. Is it like a visor? What is it? I think they're selling. A Ves de Viano visor.

There's like, I think, a laptop cover. Oh, wow. A bag. To protect from the waves? From the 5G. Yeah. Where do you stand on that? On 5G?

Yeah. I'm pro. I think. Okay. You're pro. The brain damage? No, not the brain damage. The brain worse.

The global communication. I'm pro. Global communication. I think we have probably too much global communication. I mean, that's also fair point. Yeah. I've been daydreaming on life in the foreman. Yeah.

So there's time. That comes up every few weeks. Do you guys think this is like really not related, but it's been on my mind? You know how the Native American said that when your photo is taken, it stills a bit of your soul? Yeah. Where do you think we land on that spectrum having ourselves filmed multiple times a week? Oh, the souls are stolen. They've been set into an AI machine and they're making holograms of us as we speak.

Not an ounce of soul left in us. Not a bit. Great. Just assumes I had any soul in the first place, which I'm not sure that I actually did. But I loved MIA and I loved her music. I love that she was about. You know who helped her initially make music that was not Diplo? Her roommate, Justine Fischman of Elastika.

That I did know. Was it her roommate? And was she like, but they're not the same age. No, Justine Frieshman is older. Yeah. I don't know why they lived together. I always read that she was like a mentor, like a teacher to her in some way. Like she, Maya was in art school.

Yeah. Justine Fishton was somehow associated with the school. I couldn't figure out what the connection was there. Not really sure. they like to party, who knows. Yeah. But she did seem, speaking of iconoclasts, very iconoclastic. And she was very different, you know, not a white person in this scene, a very rare non-white person.

Karenow and TV and radio being other exceptions. And she was dance music first. Yeah. You know, she was pop, hip-hop, club music, you know, obviously Diplow bringing a ton of his own interests. And her background in England and her Tamil background, like that both. of those things influencing the sound and style and look of her music. It was a perfect intersection, a beautiful woman, first time you ever heard of the Toml Tigers, a world music vulture like Diplo.

Very much. But also very talented. Well, it's one of those things where I'm obsessed with recombinant cultures across the board, like Beastie Boys are my favorite group of all time. So anybody who's kind of like grabbing with love, that's, I love filmmakers who do the same thing. We're just like, I love this and I want to reprocess it and share it with you. And I felt like she was one of the best participants in that. Yeah, cool stuff.

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Yeah, Europe. I think we'll never understand the order of the drafts. I guess I should go with Best Song. What have you done? What are you about to do? I just, like, no, I shouldn't do this, because it'll make my board really one-sided, but I don't want to lie.

Heads will roll? No, it's Y-control. Oh, sure. Wow. control is the... You're going all Y, Y, Y's. I mean, I could say hard to explain by the strokes, but I don't like it as much as Y Control.

I think it's a great song. But if I'm just being 100% honest, as you should. That is the best song that came out of, for me, this world. I mean, House of Jealous lovers is really fucking good. But, like, if we're talking, like, rip out my guts, emotional, wrenching. I mean, the lyrics of this song,

I wish I could buy back the, woman you stole. Let's go. The economy of words that knocks you the fuck out. And it's a jam. It's just her vocal performance. My

arm hair is standing up. It's just one of the best songs of all time, let alone from this milieu. So how could I not pick White Control by the AAS? Fever to tell, as I selected it, is a no-skips album. But if I'm being honest with myself, I spend a lot of it waiting for wide control. I'm like, I'm ready to hear that like siren opening of

why control. When I used to DJ, I would bum people the fuck out, put it in a song. But people also loved it. You know, it's still a danceable song. You can dance and be confronted by the lies you tell yourself to justify your existence, you know. Men. Um, targeted at men. Um, okay, so that's my best song. And then I have another pick. I believe it's mine. Yes. Oh, when do I get my double pick. Never? You don't. Oh, that's how that works.

That's the burden you bear. That's fine. I don't need it. I was just curious. Also, you guys, can we make a note to circle back to a question I wanted to ask you regarding Christopher Ryan's controversial opinion on the watch that he thinks the Walkman are much better than the strokes? The Walkmen are great, but I, see, the Walkman are.

They're amazing. They're such a borderline band in this for me, too, where it's like, clearly, They're of this time. Clearly, they're contemporaries with all these bands. Well, yeah, then they came out of Jonathan Fire Eater. But they're also not slees enough, I don't think. Red Moon is my wedding song. Wow.

So you're with Chris Ryan on this. I'm not sure if that's my opinion, but I have a huge, huge affection for Walkman and especially Hamilton. I think he is, like, truly a special rock figure. Chris's argument, if I remember correctly, hinge on, like, The Strokes have two good albums, which I'm sorry. I just, I can't sit here and accept as fact. Me and Chris are old.

Look, some of us accept Autotune Julian for what it is. And, look, I'm not going to... We don't have to go down that. We don't have to talk about the new record. I'll make Chris litigate that when he comes on for this show's episode with Amanda. I need a front person still. Yes. I could take Julian Casablancus.

I could take Jack White. I'm going to take Alex Turner of the Ardian Records. Wow. Amazing. I think for... I'm looking in the front person category of, like, who can be the only person to do this exact thing? And the very specific, like, very specific, like, rye and lyricism and stage presence that Alex Turner has, to me, is, like, completely inimitable. And I think it's a huge part of not only what has grabbed, we'll grab people from, like, I bet you look good on the dance floor. Right.

But made AM, like, one of the biggest and longest lasting records of, I mean, certainly of my generation, I'd argue, like, the last 20 years or so rock. You know that Arctic Monkeys have, like, I think, more than 8 billion streamed songs? I mean, they have more billion stream songs than Rihanna. And how much of it is just like people spamming, like, do I want to know? You know, like, it's just, it's a beautiful thing. I would never have guessed based off of their initial output that they would have had this kind of life. Right. I think a lot of it is a testament to if you have a compelling and somewhat mysterious and also, like, a frontman, you can never quite pin down. Like, what does that do for you in terms of the mystique of your band?

I think, you know, full disclosure and longtime listeners of the pod will know this. A, I was very late to Arctic Monkeys. because when did AM come out to them 6? A.m. 2013. Sorry, no, what's the first one? That one is 2006. What are people saying?

I am. That's right around the time, as I mentioned, I was like, thank you so much. None of my business, new music. I will be listening to Dipset on the strokes over here, or the Smith's over here. Don't talk to me. And then through a beautiful twist of fate,

one of my best friends, Amanda Blank, married Matt Helders, the drummer of the Arctic Monkeys. And then I... You're in the family now. Well, yeah, and so now I've gone to many shows, and I'm like, you know what? You guys were right. This band is really good. They laughed at me really hard because it was like the first show that I went to. I was in London. It was at like the Emirates, whatever, you know, stadium. And I was like, oh. And they're like, yeah, this is kind of a big band. But what I was going to say is after that experience, I think your point about Alex Turner is totally spot on. But also, they're incredible musicians. I think, you know, that is not always. the case across the board and a lot of these bands are talking about, it's okay, it's not necessary.

You know, Nick Zinner, I think, is a phenomenal guitar player. There's a lot of good musicians sprinkled in here, but the Arctic monkeys are just like, Matt Helders is one of the best drummers have ever seen Drum Live. They're just so tight. They've been playing together since they were teenagers. It's like a sight to behold them playing together. And I think like writing music like that. And also they go all over the place with like their interest. Like they might have been, I think the story is very cute that like, because Matt and Alex Turner were like best friends since they were children. They were like riding their bikes one day.

And Matt apparently, as the legend goes, handed the Strokes EP to Alex on the bike. And Alex is like, that's the day my life changed, you know? But they've evolved out of that, you know, into like so many different arenas. And I think they deserve like every accolade they have now. I have the inverse relationship to the band where I literally reviewed the first four albums. And I was a real huge fan and believer. And I did feel like they were very clearly kind of aping a New York rock and roll sound, especially in the first two records. And then you can hear, especially on the third album, Alex, kind of like my propeller, like, kind of leaning into the more loose, like, frontman thing, which he's so good at.

And then I was working at Granlin, like, an absolute animal. And I never, I didn't hear A.M. Like, I just didn't, I never even checked it out. And so I probably heard it, like, years after it came out. I think I might have listened to it because my little sister who was probably like 11 or 12 at the time was getting into them. And that album? Oh, that, yeah, that album, I think it's huge, not only in the time, but as like a post-life, you can find this at Urban Outfitters kind of like on vinyl situation. And it's just, it's grab people and grab people and grab people as it went.

It's an amazing record. And I would say more than any of their other ones is like the can you hold attention in silence or like the moment. pause between lines. You're just like waiting for the next bit of it to dribble out in a way that's like so intoxicating. And they made it despite that name, which is a whole other thing, you know? So I have best blank strokes and wildcard left. I like how we've all been avoiding best blank strokes. Well, I think there's a lot of options. These are the two deepest categories to me. I'm going to start with best blank strokes. I'm going to take this band Lime Garden. Are you guys familiar with Lime Garden? No. Current band. Very familiar with Lime Garden. Wow, that that that's You're taking a current band? You're stretching... I need to hear this because I don't know if I approve. I love Lime Garden.

They're wonderful. I talk about them all the time. To me, a huge part of Indy Slee's as a movement is now the way it has taken on a whole different life for the people who grew up with the strokes

who have used them as a reference point throughout their entire lives and what does that produce? And to me, Lime Garden is the best strokes Charlie X-CX X X X crossover act. Alice would love LimeGarden should play of her.

I was actually making her a playlist and I put LimeGarden on it because I think she'd really like it. Because it's very... Have we talked since Party for You took over our house? No. Oh, my God.

Okay, so I'm sure she'll really like it. We were just playing some Charlie in the house, but safe Charlie? Yes. It's a short division, Charlie. I don't know that she would catch the reference. That's fair. She's five. I'll tell you who does is Eileen.

She's like, please turn this off. Yeah, and she just, she was feeling it. And then I showed her a picture of Charlie, and she's like, wow. Yeah. That's a lifestyle that I'm interested in. And isn't it? And isn't it very indie sleaze in its own way? And so, like, I want a little bit of Charlie representation.

I certainly want the Strokes influence. Lime Garden to me is like, I mean, it's not just the sound, it's the attitude of what Indy Slease is about. And so I want to spin it forward a little bit if you'll allow it. I love it. I'm going to allow it just because I love this band so much. Fair enough. It's not what I was expecting when I conceived of the category,

but I think they're really good. I'm seeing on the wiki here that the influences include Charlie X, X, X, block party Arctic monkeys and the strokes. They're so great. NLCD sound system and MGMT and Phoenix. They put out an album this year. They did. It's quite good.

It's so good. They're on So Young, which is a label that I love. But yeah, they're so good. They have a cover of age of consent that is just. Okay.

Lime Garden, getting put on the stuff on this part. There we go. Love it. I'll finish up Alice's playlist and send it over. Thank you. You can give it a lesson. Yassie, you're up.

Okay, great. I will do also, I guess all I have left is best underline strokes. And wild card. Oh, and wildcard, yeah. I'm just going to say that it would be too easy to take the Arctic monkey,

so I'm not going to do that. Okay. Because I think that's almost cheating. They're too big, I think. I'm going to say best Swedish strokes, the hives. I saw my list as you know.

Really shanked me here. I'm sorry. There weren't many others that really spoke to me. I mean, you have a really good one that's still available. There's many good ones that are still. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'll be fine. I think the hives are a little underrated still. Like, they're such a good live band. They had that really cool look with the suits and the... White and black. White and black. Howlin Pelle is like an incredible frontman. They're wild.

Way wilder than I would think any Swedish people would ever be. Veni-vitty vicious. Is that the album? That's the big breakthrough, which actually does predate all of this music. It's 2000. They maybe weren't, is it almost like unfair to say that they are?

Well, it's interesting because they got kind of like like ported over by were they like, did they sign to EMI? I can't remember who they signed to but they were an independent band in Europe. Right. And then maybe they were on epitaph. But like their thing and their sound

is kind of like if the strokes and the white stripes were one band. Yes. But then also sweet. But Swedish. But Swedish. And doing James Brown dance moves. Yeah. Just incredible stuff. Yeah.

They were kind of, they, I lived in this weird zone where a lot of people thought they were a joke. And they thought they were like a manufactured thing in the aftermath of a lot of the success. But they're, and they are this kind of arch Swedish. Like, they're kind of the Abba of post-punk rock bands. Because their songs are hyper catchy. But they, I always thought they had a really great ability for like the kind of speed and power that you wanted from a band like this. Like, main offender on that, on that record is a bang. What a tune.

Yeah. So, it's a good pick. Yeah, but, I mean, yeah, you're so right. It's like their first album comes out before the stroke CP even comes out. So it's not like they were caught. But I do think they were lumped in as a, you know, this kind of stroke. So I don't want to belittle their origin. I'm a little fuzzy on the timing, but my memory is I remember,

hate to say I told you so catching on huge MTV VH1 video play. Very much. But as a late single, like in response to. That's what it is. I think the strokes catching on big. It was like, you know, rising tide raises all ships or whatever. And I think they were existing. But it was when this caught on, all of a sudden they're going to be like in spin alongside, well, I don't want to burn the vines.

For example, Australian strokes. And I think there was like a bit of a story where the MTV VMAs was like, we want all three of the bands to perform together the strokes, the vines and the hives. And strokes said no. And so it ended up just being the vines and the Hives. And they called it Battle of the Bands. Yeah. I mean, they had a lot of contempt, I think, for those guys. They were not really, like, happy that there were people who were kind of like...

And they had a lot of contempt for a lot of people. Yeah. Yeah. Probably true. Okay. Good pick. I guess I'm going to choose in that category as well. The blank.

And I'll do the British strokes, which to me are really the Libertines. Sure. Great pick. And for a minute, we're a great band. Yeah. And up the bracket is a banger. And is up there for me. with that playability

that we're talking about with fever to tell where like I remember very clearly just listening all the way through all the way through all the way through a number of times and I thought that they were

going to go on to be a truly awesome band I fully did too I thought they were so great at first album was produced by Mick Jones of The Clash and obviously Pete Dardy ran into some personal troubles and had some struggles they were on rough trade

they were label mates with the strokes and they were on rough trade and I thought they had a slightly different their sound was like a little bit more like a rhythm and blues actually more than rock and roll I felt like and I love that first record

and then the wheels kind of come off pretty quickly drugs are hell of drugs drugs drugs drugs but they and they were oh two right in the immediate aftermath of visits it and the enemy put their arms around them and was just like we got another one and then the sun got interested and it became much more tabloid

and a lot less about the music when you date Kate Moss that's going to happen he did Kate Moss Yeah. So, you know, it's kind of a sad thing. And I think that this album doesn't have that legacy. Totally. That we thought it would when we were buying these records.

The Libertines are a cult band in the sense that they have die-hard fans to this day that think they are like the coolest band that's ever existed. I thought there's a decent chance Can't Stand Me Now would get selected for song. Like, to me, it's so much of this moment and of this era. And, like, there is, like, the rhythm and blues part of what they do. There's also, like, they're not just British strokes. They're, like, specifically Brit Pop. strokes to me. It's like I hear a lot of blur.

Completely. Completely. They're like responding to exactly what came up when they were kids. Yeah. Yeah. And what became of the likely lads? That's another one of my favorites by them. Okay, wild card. That's right. What a rich territory. Yeah. So I can do anything, right? I can just take Kate Moss if you want. Yeah. I'm going to take a concert. Okay. That you yourself attended. I did. I saw the strokes in the white stripes on August 15th, 2002 at the Radio City Music Hall. and it was electrifying. It was probably the best that both of those bands will ever be, in my opinion, in terms of their raw power and fuck you attitude and the songs that they were playing

and the fact that the sets, because they didn't have a lot of songs to choose from, were modest and tight. And the white starts played first, the strokes played second, of course. We were in New York City. and the conclusion, the sort of the encore, encore of the show was The Strokes played

New York City Cops, which was a song that they had recorded and was originally on this hit and they were removed it in the aftermath of 9-11. And Jack came out and played guitar with them on New York City Cops. It's the best day of your life.

It was amazing. It was, I was 20 years old and I was there with my best friend and we were rocking the fucking out. It was awesome. What a show. Holy shit. I also spent, I would say, an embarrassing amount of time believing

that that song was New York City girls and not New York City cops, which I think is really a tribute to Juliet and the way he can just slur it all together. It's really a talent. Is it me? It is you. Okay. That was my last pick. That was your last pick? This is my last pick now. I'm going to do an annoying thing

where I'm going to say I was going to choose this thing, but then I'm going to choose this thing just so I can get both off. I was going to choose with my earnest heart, the Yayas performing maps on the VMAs, but I have them a little heavy on the Yayas. I do remember that very well. Bye.

But I'm going to choose with my actual heart and my soul, and I'm going to choose sparks, the canned beverage, the canned malt, caffeinated, but also a secret third thing was in there, which I believe was methamphetamine. And you could drink two sparks and be out till six in the morning

and be making snow angels on the hood of a car on Roebling Street and call it a night and I miss it so much so that's my wildcorn The fuel of a generation It really was How many sparks consumed in McKibbon lofts?

You know, we'll never know. I've told the story before about I'll have to say it again because I, you know, well I've told it on the podcast I haven't told you guys I invented sparks Did you? Well, in a way My friend Scott Teper and I, I'm sorry I just told this one on the Rapture episode, but we would mix a 40 of Mickey's and Red Bull before we went out.

We would pour out some of the 40. It would harden the foam, which was probably a really bad sign. Who knows what chemical reaction was happening then? And that would go down and out into the night we go because sparks didn't exist yet. It came around like a year or later. It was in the zeitgeist, clearly. It was. I have a very not-so-fond memory of my cousin coming to visit Eileen and I,

and we were living on the Lower East Side in 2005 or six. And we went to San Loco, got burritos. One of the worst restaurants of all time. Absolute atrocity. I hate there all the time. When I moved to New York, I was like, we have Mexican food here. And I was like, do you? Is that what this is?

I was from Long Island. I was like, this is fantastic. And then we went to the bar and drank for a few hours. And then we bought probably 20 cans of sparks back to our apartment. And it was my cousin Dan and his best friend. And we probably drank like three to four cans each after a night of drinking. Full hospital. And it's the most sick I've ever been in my life.

It was... Orange Pew. Vile. Yeah. And goddamn. I'm sorry that you miss... I think San Locco is still round. I really did miss out.

I'm sorry you missed... It was horrible. It was horrible. Did you have Four Loco? That was the... Of course. Yeah. That was like squarely in my college time.

So you did kind of have the... I wasn't really a four loco person. I was. You were? Yeah. I was really trying to hold on to the dream as long as possible. You like to get it in. You really did.

You were getting after it. also see you just crush one before a pot, you know? Just like it... They don't make it anymore. They, for medical reasons, I believe they took them both off the market. But I mean, your home-brewed version, you know. Well, we have it here. It's called Celsius.

It's true. And it makes me feel insane. Wildcard for me. Yeah. I mean, you made it very clear I need to represent my subgeneration. I need to reference not just the 2001s, but we need to get a little deeper. In Wildcard, I would like just like, if you'll both allow it, the 212 music video from Azalea Banks.

Sure. Amazing stuff. Not enough hip, pop representation overall today. So, like, let's get it in there. Let's get into a video that just, if I'm being totally honest, changed my brain chemistry the moment I watched it. And it's like, there's something about it that is so hard to put down.

And also, like, the fact that Aesalia Banks was never really this ever again somehow, makes it even more of a moment in time I would like to put in Amber and recognize and admire for all of us today. What's your dick like, homie? What are you into? One of the greatest bars in rap history. We need more covers. People need a cover two one, too.

Any genre, any style. She's an enigma, and I find her... A complex woman. I find her fascinating. I do think she's a genius. You can't be anything but a genius and write this song. But yeah, I think squarely counts,

if you go in the Indy Slee's Instagram account, there's many accounts of... Seapunk is at the tail end of Indy Slee's. What's seapunk? Seapunk was like the blue-haired... It was, again, it's kind of more of an aesthetic thing, but like early grimes, I feel like kind of fell into like,

yes. But I remember going to a show here that was like the seapuck. It was called like the mermaid ball. Right. The mermaid ball. And it was Azalea Banks. I remember maybe Brooke Candy played.

I don't remember another Indiesley's adjacent. And everyone was like in mermaid outfits with blue and pink hair. And it was like a tum, it's a very tumbler era. Yes. And I saw her play at Coachella and she was amazing. Just like. Yeah.

2012, I want to say. I was just bummed. I missed the mermaid ball. That sounds like quite an event. You would have loved it. You would have loved it. Should we do some honorable mentions? There's so many.

Yes. What I was a little sad about for myself, even though I do think I stand full chest forward behind my slate, I think the kills were really good. I think Allison Mossart was a very compelling front person. She would have been a great front person pick. Yeah. They have an uneven discography.

The latter half albums I prefer. Yeah. The early albums, I was like, this feels manufactured, and it's like trying to recreate. Well, the third, it's midnight boom, I think, is the third album, is where they really coalesced. Yes, I agree. I agree. That and blood pressures, I think, are great.

Yeah. I think they were really great. Let's see who else did I have on here that I wish I had talked about. Let me ask you something. Do you think of something like Passion Pit as Indies-Sleeze? 100%. I think they're of the moment for sure. Yeah, this is where, like, our difference in age.

Yeah. Because I just thought of them as purely, as you put it the other night, like a, a, pitch forky indie band. Yeah. And they were a little dancey, right? They were little rock and roll. So like I get it. But this is like,

they felt kind of safe and like not dangerous to me. It's like, okay, for example, this is a great delineage. I can't believe I was so tapped in. Because I was like, okay, when did Passion Pit start 2007? When did hipster runoff start? Oh yeah.

Also 2007. Yes. To me, that's like not indie sleighs anymore. You don't think hipster runoff is indie sleets. I kind of feel like it became something else then. But again, well,

his performance This is everyone's, you know, where were you and how old were you? I'm just like, okay, it almost became

mainstream as an overstatement, but it became something much bigger than it was in that first half of the 2000s. Yeah,

I think the most interesting kind of point of debate here is what is MGMT? Yeah. You know, where, what is MGMT?

Many people are asking. They're probably the first band that hit during my life where I was like, oh, I'm no longer, like this, this is for college kids. This isn't for me. Boy, let me tell you it was. I know.

Not this college kid, but I think you're hitting something on with Passion Pit. I mean, that's just like synth on synth style. And it is a little too clean to be sneeze, but it is looped in with all the dancey stuff. I think because it was such like a blog wave kind of enterprise, that's how it became part of one movement. But that's the word that has been missing from this conversation. Blog house. Yeah. To me is like a little on the outside of this movement, but I know people disagree.

People will say like Blockhouse is a kind of continuation of whatever this started. I guess it totally depends where are you looking at it from. We're looking at it from 2001. They're looking at it from 2006. It's true. And the kids now are looking at it from they didn't even experience it. They're in their 20. So it's all one thing.

It's the 60s, you know? Because like Vampire Weekend is the one that I always come back to. Vampire Weekend is in Meet Me in the bathroom. But I'm like, that's not indie sleaze. Indie but not sleaze. Indie but not sleaze. I mean, certainly came about in the wake. I was wearing boat shoes at concerts in 2009.

Like, you know, that's not... The sound even. Although, I've said this before, I'll say it on the Sharks episode, and I'll say it here. You can hear every bit of Vampire Weekend first album DNA in the Stroke's first two albums. I agree. A-punk is just the same, like, so, yeah. Chord change, the way that the melodies are written. Like, it's all very similar.

It's just sung in slightly more pop or slightly more like folky pop way. Yeah. I think a band I wish we had talked about more as Metric, who I feel like is Indie Sleeze. And also identifies like, well, yeah, one, the like Canada wing of this entire movement. Right. Emily Haynes is a front person. Incredible. Also, like, a weird, lilting, airy voice that is somehow has the edge to be a part of this.

Oh, yeah. And then also filtering into specifically Black Sheep into Scott Pilgrim, the movie. Right. Which I think has become kind of a time capsule for the fashion of this time, oddly enough. For everything that movie is and has become, like, it is a weird style. chronography of this moment in time. I think that's right on. Yeah, I love Metra. Another song, actually another song I played for Alice recently that she was into. Hell yeah. Any strong front woman that's usually going to work in my house. Sure.

We love representation. Yeah. The Von Bondies? No. I don't know the Von Bondies. Really? What's up with the Von Bondi's? You don't remember Jack White punching the guy from the Von Bondies out and then having to go to court about it in his little pork pie hat. Fellow Detroit band. Wow. It's really burned in my brain that entire story. This is quite a great story. I've stumbled something's followed very closely. I mean, you know,

we haven't talked about Kings of Leon really. No. Southern Strokes. Which I think, I think youth and young manhood is a legitimately cool album, their first record. And everything after that,

I don't like it all. But they went on to become huge. Yeah, they're massive. I mean, you know who I'm shocked we didn't talk about is the killers. See, I don't know that they're sleaze enough. They're vaguest sleaze, but that's a different thing.

They were at a time. They're not sleaze. They're Mormon. But like, but they were, I'm sorry, that first album, Somebody told me as Indieslislease. Honey. The most.

Mary Choi, our friend, when I was living in New York, that was my best friend. I would go over to her household time and her roommate was in the bravery. Talk about Indieslisles. That's always shit. That was definitely Indiesleas. Yeah, I mean, I was, when did somebody come, somebody told me come out? Was it like 2003? Yeah, that's firmly in the.

Oh, timeline. And it was an absolute reaction to the strokes. I interned at Spin. June, July, August of 2003, and Mr. Brightside was released, September 29, 2003. They were gigging in New York for sure at this time, right before Mr. Brightside came out. Yeah, I saw them. And also, I remember you guys went another indie sleast home, the fucking Garden State soundtrack. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, I know. There's like, again, that... It's not the... It's not... Yeah, but it's in the shins. Yeah, but Mr. Brightside, was it not on there? I don't think so. but I mean, it's everywhere else.

I put it. It's all right in my brand at the same time. Yeah, I know Brandon Flowers has talked about Is This It Came Out? And it sent him into a deep spiraling depression over like, what are you supposed to do after this? Yeah. Is Mr. Brightside the most sung karaoke song by all people born after 1980?

It probably. I mean, it's the sweet Caroline for sure. Mr. Brightside has replaced Journey Don't Stop Believe in. Yeah. In terms of like what people play at a DJ set to like get every. on the dance forcing them together. I never think of it as part of this movement, but of course it is.

I really do because it was on so much in my time in New York. Another band I think we didn't talk about at all, though I think is quite good, is Interpol. Yeah. And very firmly in that era and time. And the first Intraple album is just actually like phenomenal. I feel like I have bounced off of them so many times in my life where it's like I respect this band,

but they just can't. never have grabbed me in a way that these other bands have Subway, she is a porno. Subway, she's one of the best lyrics of all time. Somehow did not. I love them. As I said, I interviewed Paul and Daniel. And they were...

Carlos D and his entire whatever he was doing was just fascinating. It was a thing. Yeah, what was he? He had a holster and like a Hitler youth haircut. Yeah. That wasn't that cool. Our band. That's a look.

Yeah. Well, it's funny because they would get so mad if you said that they sounded like, Joy Division, but then it's like you're kind of bringing the dream of Joy Division alive and your Carlos D. outfits. Well, they're mad because they know it's true. Well, they made efforts to pivot pretty hard, but there's, Turn on the Bright Lights

is still the best thing they've ever done. Antics is pretty good, too. It's good. It's good. Trial of Light light, it's just amazing. But yeah, I think... Similar to a lot of these albums, which is also, they're all like 10 songs in 40 minutes and they're over. You know, like, they're not these like deep, expansive explorations of style. Like, they're very

singularly focused and executing on what they want to do. I am a little sad also we didn't talk about any of the French. Like Phoenix? Justice. Justice. Sure. I'm thinking more of like the electro-clash.

Because justice was huge, you know? Like that sort of that stretch. And then like the gossip. Yeah. The faint. There were some really great airy weapons maybe falls in this category of Indieslis. What do you think? Hard to say.

I guess. I don't know. There's a lot of I guess. I mean, to your point about, like, if you look up one of these playlists, I'm sure they emerge on one of them, you know? So I can hear the argument. Lady Tron. I love fucking Lady Tron. I love.

And then, you know, a lot of, a lot of, I think maybe one of the most influential bands is Crystal Castles. Mm-hmm. It was never, like, I thought they were cool, but it was never really like my, you know, I'll die for this band. But you can, like, their, their footprint is almost bigger than any of these other bands. if you look at contemporary music in terms of like hyperpop and stuff. Yeah. There's a song on that first record that is on one of my running playlist that I still listen to to this day.

I think it's crime wave. Speaking of, if this had been a 10-person draft in Best Song, I may have selected She Once Revenge, Tear You Apart, which has also been a part of, I think, every running playlist I have ever had throughout my entire life. So is it healthy? Who's to say? but it's a banger. We should also note the liars.

Yeah. Because they were a phenomenal band. Yeah. I mean, and, and Angus was dating Karen O, right? They were the power couple of that era. Yeah. But I think we, I mean, there's a lot of other bands we can name check, but I think we've covered pretty well.

More or less covered it. Good work, guys. I think we did great. Should we recap? Let's. Let me pull up my little recap back. Okay. Rob Mahoney, you first.

Do you remember your picks? I do. In best band, I selected the strokes because they're the strokes. because they're the strokes. In best front person, I selected Alex Turner of the Arctic Monkeys. Best song, TV on the radio's

Wolf Like Me. Best album, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, as fever to tell. The best blank strokes, I picked LymeGuarded. But you didn't give them a moniker. I'm going to say best strokes Charlie hybrid as the official moniker.

And my wild card is the 212 music video. Great. Sean Fantasy? Best band I took the White Stripes. Best front person I took MIA. Best song. I took The Raptures House of Jealous Love. Lovers, Best Album, I chose LCD Sound Systems self-titled debut.

Best Blank Strokes. I took British Strokes, The Libertines. And my wild card was the White Stripes and the Strokes Live at Radio City Music Hall, August 15th, 2002. Gorgeous. And for me, best band, the YAAAS. Best front person, Carineau. Best song, Y, Why Control, by the YAS. I work for the YIS.

Best album, Silent Alarm by Block Party. best blank strokes the Swedish strokes the hives and my wild card is sparks the methamphetamine beverage drink

well done you guys thank you so much what a joy and a pleasure it was to have you relive this era

with me how did the two of you feel about it about looking inward but also backward I was like I was a little sad the other day

because this is such like a no man's land of documentation even though like the party photography existed, but you can't access it, right? Like, all of the things are dead. I don't have, I was like, I have many photos of myself from this time.

Like, it's just gone. Well, just other people's high flash photos of you in various places that you need to unearth. I need to unearth. I have something from this period of time that I don't have for very many movements like this, which is I have memories. Totally.

I have, I experienced this. I was there. It's a really strange thing. I was in the dark room drinking Coors light. I was up in the door. I was it lit, bitch. I was out lit. Yeah.

Yeah. That's a hard thing to reckon with, right? Like, especially on this show, I spend most of my time talking about these, like, mythical times of past. And then I'm like, you know, me and my Nome to Gear hoodie were really sitting at the bar at Max Fish. Yeah. You didn't miss out on a lot, but you did miss out on being in the Lowery side in 2005. I think so. It was just really, really fun.

You rode your bike to the hat. You got a to go margarita. They used to do that. Doesn't seem like a thing you should do. I'm going to be honest. They were awesome. They were awesome. in like a soda cup. I was always trying to find my way to Rosario at the end of the night.

Oh, same. Yeah, that was what I was, that's, that was my life. That was a pizza spot. Sounds great to me. On the corner. I gave them a lot of my money. Me too. I lived literally two buildings down from Rosario. Yeah. Sean and I realized that we were like kind of neighbors, but actually never knew or saw each other. Do you think you had like a passing on the train moment at any point? Probably a passing on the street, you know. Well, we live, we both lived on the same street. We lived on orchard. Yeah. I've, I've had that with a few people that I've, it was, it was, it was, our people were there at that time. Yeah.

That was where we lived. Well, you guys, we wrapped it up. Let's call it a day. Let's call it an Indieslays Day. Thanks, Yossi. Thank you so much. Thanks for having us. Come back next week for a new episode of Vansplain.

If you liked what you heard today, subscribe for more episodes of Vansplain. Our guests today were Sean Fennessey and Rob Mahoney. This episode was produced by Rob Sunderman and edited by Adrian Bridges with help from Justin Sales. Video production by John Jones. Executive producers for Bain are Gina Delvac and me, Yossi Salit. Our gorgeous and catchy theme song was composed and performed by Bethany Cozantino and Jennifer Clavin and graciously recorded by Carlos Delaggarsa in Los Angeles, California. Special thanks to our producer emeritus, producer Dylan, aka Dylan Tupper Rupert, and also

Sparks. May you rest in peace. Come back every Thursday for a new episode of Bansplaine on Spotify or wherever you listen to or watch your podcasts. Being a normal, functional podcast. Dressing her. Oh, this is me. Addressing Yassi Salik herself.

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