Bandsplain - The Music Biopic Hall of Fame With Sean Fennessey

Episode Date: August 13, 2026

Sean Fennessey joins Yasi to build the Music Biopic Hall of Fame, from the 1940s to today. Along the way, they consider what makes a great music biopic, why rock and roll lends itself so well to the genre, and why a great central performance doesn’t always mean a great movie. Plus: Yasi’s cocurated Criterion Channel collection, the movies that belong in the trash, and the TV movie that ‘Odyssey’ star Matt Damon really deserved an Oscar for. Check out the curated Criterion Channel collection here. Plus: Yasi and Sean on 24 Hour Party People And the Top 20 on Letterboxd Subscribe on YouTube CREDITS:Host: Yasi Salek @yasisalekGuest: Sean Fennessey @seanfennesseyProducer: Rob SundermannEditor: Jon JonesAdditional Production Supervision: Justin SaylesTheme Song: Bethany Cosentino Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Get your tickets now for the Dog Stars. It's no surprise how fast civilization can disappear. Go! Out there, just kill or be killed. Jacob Alluredi. There are people out there? They need our help. Josh Bruland.

Shoot first and inquire afterwards. Margaret Qualie. Okay, tough guy. And Guy Pearce. Arm up! The Dog Stars, directed by Ridley Scott. In theaters, August 28th. Get tickets now.

What's with this band anyway? I don't get it. Can you please explain? Wait, like, Bansplain. Hello and welcome to Bandsplain. I am your host, Yossi Salick. This is usually a show where I invite an expert guest on to help me explain a cult band or iconic artist. But today, we're taking a page from the Big Picture podcast and doing a Hall of Fame. A Hall of Fame of Music Biopics.

It's been brought to my attention that some people don't say biopic. Did you know that? Did they say? Biopic. Yeah, I don't believe in that. Yeah. My guest today, you guys, is celebrity film podcaster, best friend to Steven Spielberg, somewhat friend to me, Sean Fennessey. Welcome to the program. Thank you. I like how you framed this by saying that usually you have an expert. I know. Is that it's, it feels it's not really

the right wording and it offends every guest. They're like, oh, sorry, usually an expert. It's more that we're not doing the cult band or iconic artist. So perhaps I need to reword. Diction is important Regardless of my expertise I'm happy to be here with you today I'm thrilled to have you What are we doing? How are we going to do this?

Hold on Before we get into this You guys I wanted to mention Because you asked for it At least a few Two to three of you asked for it Bansplain is now on YouTube So please get on there

Thank you so much Get on there Likes all this makeup I've been shulacking on my face To come into this studio To record these video podcasts You can now see them on your YouTube. Like, subscribe, comment.

I don't know what else do people do on YouTube? Unspeakable things. Unspeakable things, right. I'll be making a day in the life blog that will make your bones chilled. Wake up with Yossi. It's just me slamming Celsius and like at the Google Doc, like increasingly disgusting. Sean, part of the reason that I'm invited here today to do this is because I have curated another collection for the Criterion channel. of music biopics that don't suck.

That's the title. Will all of those biopics just go in the canon? No. Intriging. It was a co-curation, so I will, to peek behind the curtain. So there's a couple in there that I don't, with my whole chest cosine. And also another peek behind the curtain of capitalism, there were ones I really wanted that are impossible, either impossible to license due to music rights, too expensive, whatever.

I mean, this is a business. So I don't think they'll all go in, and I think there will be others that go in that weren't part of the collection. But I still think the collection is really good, and we got some really cool ones on there. And if you are interested, you can watch it on the Criterion Channel through, I think, the end of September. Exciting. Sean, what are we doing? That's such a great question. Well, I was hoping that together we could do this in sort of a mutual helping each other.

A collaboration. A collaboration. I've listened to multiple episodes of the Big Picture podcast. Multiple meaning three? Listen, I listen to a lot. Okay, thank you. You're welcome. It's a good stuff you're doing there.

Thanks, we're trying. And it's not even, I'm not contractually obligated. I just want you guys to know, they don't make you listen to the other ringer podcast. They don't. Well, they made me when I was forced to do that for a long time. And I was very happy to, and I still do listen to X speed. Yeah, I listen to a lot of them. But, so I've listened to several Hall of Things.

And you guys do such a great job. I'm hoping that I can even get a 10% of a good job. Okay. Can I ask you a question about this? Because I've been thinking about this myself. Okay. Amanda recently did the 21st century rom-com canon. What is a difference between a canon and a hall of fame?

So I think the Hall of Fame, I've broken this rule many times, but I think where it's settled in my head is the canon is for the genre and the Hall of Fame is for the person. So should this be a canon? Should we redo it? I don't want you to change anything, but it is how I have started thinking about it. I've gone back and forth over the years, but I started using the canon nomenclature when talking about a genre.

But is this even a genre, I guess, is a question. I think it's a genre. Do you not think so? It's just so loose. Maybe it's not a genre rather a type. Like, you know, like a taxonomical distinction rather than a genre distinction. Because their music biopics can be made up

of different genres, right? Absolutely. Yeah, they could be thrillers. They could be romances. Exactly. Yeah, you're right. So, okay. Canon. It's going to be a canon now, you guys.

Because Sean Fennesse said. And also, I agree. And also I don't care that much. So I think canon seems correct. Does Canon have a similar numerical restriction? Because I know for Hall of Fame, you guys tend to cap at 10. We stick to 10. I think Canon is good for 10 as well. 10 is a nice round number. I think it's coherent. This is a little more challenging, though, because you're talking about literally the beginning of classic Hollywood all the way to today. Well, I was going to ask you because I'll be, I'll keep it 100 with you guys. Music biopics from the 40s and 50s, I don't know her. I've probably not seen any of them.

It doesn't mean they're not good. That has nothing to do with me seeing them or not seeing them. It's a taste situation. So I don't know how many of those are going to end up in the canon. I guess another question is when you do the big picture canon, is that as you understand it, an objective canon of the world or is that the canon through the lens of the big picture?

It's certainly not an objective canon of the world. Is that what you're... Am I qualified to do? Is anyone qualified to do that? That's a great question. It's a great question. It's strictly through the lens of the show. Yeah.

And I feel... The very subjective taste of whoever saw on the episode. I think that's what we do here too because obviously it's been. So I don't think the Ted Lewis is everybody happy in 1943. Classic Hollywood biopic will make

our canon. I haven't seen that film. me neither. And it might be good, but it's not really a bandsplainy situation. Yeah, there's a couple of movies in the first 10 years or so of this style that I think are very well-known, almost iconic American movies, not specifically because they're about musicians, but because of kind of what they mean to the culture at large. They're very far away from where Bohemian Rhapsody is going. And thank God. Yeah. Yeah. Well, like, I mean, we don't have to put this movie in, and I know you're I want to talk with some more depth around the idea,

but like Yankee Dool Dandy is the first movie on the list that you made. Yes. The 1942 movie starring Jimmy Cagney. And it's one of his best performances. And it's a terrific song and dance movie. And it showed that Cagney wasn't just a gangster movie star. Right. That he had a lot of range.

And it was like, I think it was in the AFI, 100 years, 100 movies. Right. The original list that came out. It's a very, it's canonically, a very well-known and well-liked American movie. Is it like a great music biopic? I guess we just, What does that mean? Why don't we try to establish between the two of us, a little jury of two, what makes a great music biopic?

And I fear we might differ on that. Great. That's what makes interesting conversation. Lively debate. What do you think? I think it needs to be a portrait of a person who makes music. Okay. Great.

That's pretty much it. The actors are clearly visible and the language is understandable. There should be human beings. There should be cameras. Cameras should be used to capture their lives. There was a, there was like, remember cracked the like humor website? Of course I did. I remember cracked the magazine.

Yes, of course. Of course. The Mad magazine sort of, uh, it was a Reebok to Mads Nike. Yeah. There was, there's an article from there that was burned in my brain that was like about dating. And it was something about like, oh, this guy is nice to me. And the person was like, that is rock bottom. Like, the guy is nice to me is like saying, I.

I went and saw a film and all the actors were clearly visible and it was in English. But don't you agree that so many people are just not nice to their partners? I agree, but I think that's like shouldn't. I think the point the guy was making is like, that's not enough. Yeah, I agree. That is a requirement. I think the guy was like, there's also another nice guy who plays guitar. It was very funny.

Two good things. Really stuck with me. Aren't both of those things exciting to you? Sure. And aren't they exciting to them? the film-going audiences. Guitar a little more exciting to me than nice, which is probably why I've ended up where I've ended up.

And also, let's be real to music biopics. Nice, not really a making of a great film. Guitar is a really interesting through line here because I feel like these movies really come to life when you start focusing on rock and roll figures. Do you think that's just because rock and roll is like so electric? It's thrilling much. For lack of a, you know, that's a pun, but...

Yeah. I think it's even a little more than that, too. I think there's something about rock and roll that is not always, but can be campy. And one thing I really like in music biopics is camp. Because I think part of what is interesting to me about a lot of these figures is that they are, many of them are, in this, I say this with like love and respect, sort of ridiculous. Maybe not as actual people, but as the way they've been absorbed by the culture. And to get that ridiculousness on camera makes for me, like, that's an exciting way to watch something. I know what you mean.

I think there's like a general theatricality to the history of rock and roll and the way that people present when they perform maybe more so than a classical music composer who maybe isn't even necessarily seen in the public when presenting their work. presenting their work. But then there's Amadeo, so there's ways to do it. Just kind of a counterfactual, and we can talk about that. Right. Counterfactual, also for me, yes. Love it. You like the counterfactual. Yeah, I do too. I like when something breaks the trend

and redefines what a kind of movie is. The other thing about rock and roll is it's not just the popular form of art, it's a very conquerable thing. It's very easy to watch a person write a rock and roll song in a way that it's not easy to watch a person compose a grand opera.

But you famously hate watching someone compose a rock and roll song. I do, too. I don't think it makes good cinema per se. But you can imagine, like there's going to be a Johnny Mitchell biopic that Cameron Crow is reportedly making. She's going to be sitting, drinking red wine, smoking, blasting sigs, writing songs on an appan. Or, you know, sitting at the piano and just banging out a tune, you know. And I don't know why they think we need to see that. I do. It's because there is a real elusive magic to the act of creation and it's an attempt to narrativeize it. But it can't really be done, right? Like you can't show for real. You can't explain inspiration. We both for a living. Ask people like, how'd you do that? How do you come up with something? Yeah. We're trying to figure it out because we don't do it. Like what we make is stupid. Once again, I need you to speak for yourself. What I make is stupid. What you make. I am constantly inspired and I am an artist. So.

Okay, well, I will let you... However you want to look at what you do, that's your business. Uh-huh. Well, I have a lack of pride, and I... I don't think that's true. I operate in self-loathing. Ego is different from pride. Oh, that's true.

Okay, yeah. Pride is more ground. I'll just say, I do think that it is like an effort by filmmakers, actually. Right. So try to, like, help us better understand the act of creation. You would think a filmmaker of all people would understand how, like, is ineffable the right word? Yeah, I think it's right. It is to, like, capture that lightning in a bottle in, like, a literal way.

I agree. And yet, people seem to enjoy it. These movies historically do pretty well. So we're back to the, is popular good? Sometimes. Sometimes, yeah. The Twain can meet. Yeah.

I think, thinking back to all the ones I love, I can't think of one that actually depicts what we're talking about. The ones that are my favorites, I don't remember. seeing someone sit down and write music. Mm-hmm. So that's my take on it. I just, okay. I can think of a couple, but okay. My, I was thinking about a lot this morning

while I was watching Elvis at 7 in the morning. John Carpenter's Elvis? No. Baslerman's Elvis. Oh, unfortunately, yeah. I loved it. That's great. I was, I really surprised myself because I actually

completely skipped it because I was like, well, we already know what that's going to be all about. And I did not know what it was going on. Well, we can talk about when we get there. But I was, like, okay, here is my tenants. You cannot capture a person's entire essence, life, you know, every facet of them in a film. And when you try, you fail.

That's just like period, end of sentence. And the films that I love the most are like they come at it a little sideways or it's a little narrow. Or it is cradle of the grave, but they do something, you know, unexpected with it. Or they only try to capture one. Like, Elvis is a good example, right? Elvis is like a fever dream. Like, it is the part of Elvis that is the part of him that was in culture that was, like, truly psychotic. Like, campy, over the top.

And the whole film is kind of like that, you know. Doesn't mean I wouldn't watch another Elvis film that was, like, a little more grave or serious or maybe focus more on his youth. I'm obsessed with the fact that he was so close with his mother and they shared a bed till he was a teenager. Like maybe if I made the film, I would have focused on that. That can also be a good biopic. But when you try to put it all in one thing, you just flatten the person, in my opinion.

I don't disagree, although I really did not enjoy Elvis. That's okay. And there are a variety of reasons why I think I probably spent two or three episodes talking about it on the big picture. But I did just see Epic. Elvis Presley in concert, which is also Bazlerman. Which is Bazlerman's second film about Elvis, which is a concert film. Entirely using this sort of like elevated, refined, restored footage over a couple of nights of performance and lots of background interview footage.

And I just got a way more out of that. I got way more out of who Elvis's essence was. I think my issue with Baz Luhrman's movie is like I wasn't really interested in his point of view on Elvis. Yeah. And that is really what it boils down to with a lot of these films. And Baz Luhrman is a carny in his heart. Yes.

That movie is spiritually Australian in a way that you might not like because it does get a lot of things wrong in the way that is very Australian of it, which you think I wouldn't like. I thought specifically the notion of Elvis's relationship to race in America was just bizarre in that movie. I was like, this is clearly not a guy from America. And his like, I'm just like good pals with B.B. King and we just like hang out in Memphis and we chat every Saturday night. Like that whole thing I just thought was so strange and so sort of like retro reimagined. and like here's how we can really admire and empathize with this figure. So, but that's interesting because like it is Baz's POV.

And some of these movies, I think, have a really strong POV on an iconic figure. And some of them are about less well-known people. So they're attempting to narrativize them to get you interested in and understand. Right. Why someone was great and underrated. And so there's like this kind of balancing act that happens across the history of the movies that is fun to go through.

Yeah. Okay, great. Well, I don't know how much we establish what we're looking for. But it's, again, like pornography, you'll know it when you see it. Well, you mentioned Yanky doodle dandy. Yeah.

Do you think it goes in the canon? I mean, in the strategy that we apply. Yeah, when you do canon, is it still green, yellow, red, or is it something else? Okay. Let's do a bandsplain thing. What do you want to do? I don't know. Historically, I don't do well with rules-based games.

Five devil horns for... How dare you? What would be an indicative... signature for band spline. What could you say? That would be like, this is a fuck yeah. This is a maybe.

Why on the big picture? It's simply something simple like green, red, yellow, and I have to do devil horns or like five guitars. Like, is that what you think of me? I'm just having fun of your expense. Three studded belts, four hot topics. Like, I don't understand. Now we're talking.

Now we're talking. You got big hoop earrings today. I always have big earrings. You know, like maybe the hoop earrings. That's rough what you're doing. What do you want it to be? Five new of teethers. What can we do?

Are we, well, how does it, how is a canon made? I think for the purposes of this conversation, it's just saying we really like this. I mean, wanted to go in. I haven't seen Yankee Doodle Dandy in 25 years. You know, I've never seen it. I genuinely can't recall components of the story other than it's about George Cullen and that Michael Cortiz directed it, you know, and it's one of his first movies after Casablanca. And so, like, it fits the parameters.

It has a great performance. It shows that person in performance. It shows what their art meant to their life. You know what we're going to do. Yes, no, maybe. Yes, no, maybe. That's right. Okay. Well, let's just say maybe, then.

Great. Now, do you want to go through every single one of these films? Well, I think we could, like, literally just, like, be like, okay, is everybody happy Ted Lowe's? That's not going in. I don't even know what that is. Doesn't mean it's a bad movie. A song to remember, Chopin?

Have you seen that? I haven't seen it. Me neither. Rhapsody and Blue, that's very famous. It is. I have seen it. I don't feel that it's going in. The thing is with a lot of these 40s and 50s movies,

and this will come up in the next film that we talk about, you know, they're made in the studio system, and so they're not ultimately interested in exploring the psychology of these figures at the time. They're more interested in giving the audiences a kind of satisfying Wikipedia entry. A bit of a razzle-dazzle, showbiz. Yes. For example, in the next movie you have on the list,

Night and Day, which is about Cole Porter, source Carrie Grant. You know, Cole Porter was gay. And he's not portrayed as gay in this film. Well, it was 1946. That's exactly my point. Night and Day, also directed by Michael Curtis, is kind of an entertaining movie.

And if you like to see Cole Porter writing Begin to begin or whatever, like it is kind of fun, but it doesn't deeply explore his life. I don't know if you have the other Cole Porter movie that Kevin Klein stars in on this list. What is that movie called? Col Porter.

Yes, D-Lovely. And is that on the list as well? You think that's a better... That's a more true representation of Cole Porter, but it's probably not as good a movie as night and day. And which one is more important? It's your show. I kind of think...

Hard to say. I mean, I don't think either of them are going in in a list of 10. But it is an interesting question of sort of like, does the truth matter of their life? I think this is art. So I think ultimately being a better film matters. Okay.

I think we should keep going. I reserve the right to. change my mind. The Jolson story? Don't know it. Haven't seen it. Song of love. Haven't seen it. Luckily, probably all these directors are dead now, so they won't be offended by us going

through this. The fabulous Dorsey's. Haven't seen it. I haven't seen it. I mean, they're words in music. Haven't seen it. Mickey Rooney. Yeah.

Mickey Rooney and this is the story of Lorenz Hart and Richard Rogers, which predates Blue Moon, of course. Which I loved. Which is a fabulous movie. Is that a music biopic? I think so. It's not on my list. I think so. Okay. I loved that.

I mean, also, I think fundamentally, maybe I can't speak for you, but fundamentally, my sensibilities are just not going to be in the 40s and 50s. It's not something, it's not a type of film that I connect with or I'm familiar with, you know? Yeah, I mean, most of these movies, I don't think. Should we just skip on ahead? Really worth spending a ton of time on. I mean, probably the most famous on the list that we have here is the Glenn Miller story, which is stars Jimmy Stewart as the trombone player who eventually starts his own band

and becomes one of the most famous American musicians for a period of time. It's a very good movie. It's, again, very standard. But if you're trying to get a real snapshot of the way that famous musicians were being portrayed throughout the history of Hollywood, this is a big one.

Right. I think it's interesting to point out, even though we're not probably going to canonize, many of these, is that how early on this has been a consideration and a preoccupation of Hollywood. They're making almost as many music biopics in the 40s and 50s as they do in any other decade.

I was going to ask you about this. Isn't that interesting? It's really interesting in the fact that it was such a popular subgenre for 20 years. And then in the 1960s, it kind of just stops. Yeah. And why does it stop? And is it because of what's happening with popular music at the time? Yeah, maybe popular music was so interesting that people didn't care to go see, you know.

I'm not sure. This is maybe a little more your wheelhouse, but. Well, I have a theory. It also is like the hippie. hippie counterculture. Maybe they're not that interested in seeing fictionalized. Because in the 60s, it would be about 50s or 40s artists, right?

It's not going to be about contemporaneous artists. Well, all these movies in the 50s and 60s are about band leaders and composers. And they're not inherently great performance figures. But what you have in the 60s is you have this explosion of rock and roll and then all of those rock and roll stars, including

Elvis, including the Beatles, become movie stars. Right. Like we have Beetle's. films, you have Beach Boys in the films. Yeah, that makes sense. So like that is sort of being. A string of 20 Elvis movies, you know, where he's like playing a GI or he's playing a guy in Hawaii. It's a beautiful. What a beautiful man. He is. And those movies all stink. And yet they're kind of fun to watch because he's such a laser beam of charisma that they're fun artifacts. But so I'm going through John Borman's work. And his first major feature film is a movie called Catch Us If You Can, which was only made because the Dave Clark Five wanted to make a movie in Swing in London in 19. And this guy who eventually went on to make, you know, deliverance and Excalibur and all these amazing movies basically got launched into the world by this band trying to copy the Beatles.

And so I think because of that, you get this thing that we see on this really long list you have. From 1964 to 1972, only about five movies like this are made. Yeah. And it's because the whole industry has shifted towards just portraying the characters. And then that just goes away. Nobody wants that anymore With some exceptions Right

We have prints You know we have a couple of people Yeah Yeah It's like rare It is rare And and purple rain was like a fluke Like nobody wanted it

No one thought it was gonna be good And it just exploded Against all odds Yes Because Prince is a genius From the 60s Funny girl is pretty important It is

Fanny Bryce Fannie Bryce A person that I'm not that familiar with Have you seen the film? Yes Okay Great film Is it a maybe?

Is it an automatic yes? Because it's so amazing. It's so funny because I didn't know anything about Fannie Bryce when I sat down to watch it. So now when you and I sit down to watch movies like deliver me from nowhere, where we come with all this expectation about how is Bruce Springsteen going to be portrayed. To me, that's a movie about Barbara Streisand, as much as it is about Fannie Bryce. I think you raise a really interesting point because I do think that fortunately or unfortunately, when you approach a music biopic,

you might be better off not knowing anything. You might, there's probably a sweet spot where you have like a vague familiarity but are not an expert because when you're an expert, you're going to be, you know, wagging your finger or like... Yeah, the Emily Wilson, the Odyssey situation.

Sure. How dare you, sir, not portray the gods? Right. Or just like, you know, those people are very precious to you maybe and you feel wrong. by how they're portrayed. Or if you're willing to and able to, which I've been really trying to do,

because I sometimes get in my Emily Wilson bag when I watch music by epics, given my work and how deeply connected I feel to some of these artists. Understandable. But I have tried to put my Sean Fennessee hat on. You don't often wear a hat. You have such a beautiful head of hair.

I love wearing hats, but it's like it would be like taking away my superpower. It's the only thing to have. While you have it, babe. It's really the only thing. Rock it while you have it. and just be like, let me judge this on simply the merits of the film, which is why I was able to enjoy Elvis, I think. I get that.

Yeah. I completely understand that. Oh, we'll put funny girls a maybe. I think it's definitely a maybe. Definitely maybe. No oasis mode. Yeah, no oasis, but yes, Oasis. Is there anything else from the 60s that you feel?

I mean, I guess the Hank Williams. You know, I've never seen your cheating heart. I haven't seen it either. I love Hank Williams' music. I'm really interested in his life. So maybe I should just fill that blind spot. Throw that on your letterbox to watch list. You know what?

I will right now. So yeah, no, I don't think anything else slots in there. Wow, George Hamilton portrays Hank Williams. That is not ideal. Weird. That's not, no shots to George Hamilton. Was he already a real tan back then? Yeah, he looks pretty tan in this poster.

Where's George Hamilton from originally? Florida. He's from Memphis, Tennessee. Oh, okay. So I stand corrected. I mean, they have a resemblance. Ish. If you, like, undo the pomp

hair and the stuff, you know? Sure. Film Inc. argued that George Hamilton was, quote, never convincing as a star singer, writer, or doomed person. Admittedly, he's not helped much by the slack direction or poor script, which consists of a lot of drunken acting

and squabbles with his wife. Played without much flair by Susan Oliver. The movie wasn't a blockbuster, but it became beloved. Like a cult classic? I guess so. Okay. I'll take it out.

I'll throw it on my... That raises another interesting question. This is fun that the questions come up while we're going through. How much do you feel the actor needs to resemble the titular character? Might not be a titular character. I don't think we need to look exactly like them, but they need to be able to capture their energy. Embody.

Yeah. Yeah. And Austin Butler, I thought was very interesting as Elvis. I thought he was phenomenal. By the end, I was like, that's Elvis. Yes. And he doesn't look like Elvis to me. No, I mean, he possesses some of the qualities.

Like, he is incredibly beautiful and a lightly feminine way that Elvis. You know, like, I don't think they could have put, like, somebody else. I can't even grab an app. Tom Holland would not have worked, you know? Besides the shortness, he doesn't have the, like, pillowy. There's, like, something about parts of Elvis's face that I think are, like, sensual in a way that made him who he is. I agree. But, yeah, you're right.

They don't have a strong resemblance, but by the end, I was like, that's Elvis, especially with what, sorry, I'm talking about Elvis so much just because there's a recency bias. When he started to, which I loved, cut in actual Elvis at the end. And I was like, kind of like, I was like in it. I was like, that's Elvis. Oh, that's Elvis too. That's Austin Butler, you know? When he was wearing the makeup in the 70s period with the jowls, yeah, he looks a lot like him. It's crazy.

It's also very funny because my best friend's boyfriend looks alarmingly like Austin Butler. And so any. Nice. For her, yes. And he's a wonderful person. But every time I watch a film with Austin Butler, I'm like, that's Hank. That's his name. It's Hank.

And I'm like, why is Hank pretending to be Elvis? This is crazy. Why is Hank Fat Elvis? Okay. 70s. Not many made. No. I think you've got a couple of historically significant ones.

Have you seen Mahler? Because you're a Ken Russellhead? I have seen Mahler and I have seen Listomania. Both of which are a lot of fun. I love Lestomania. I do too. It's in my criterion collection. I find it to be quite wonderful.

I agree with you. It's very chaotic and very sexually and emotionally forward, as all Ken Russell's stories are. Daltry is awesome in it. So good. It's definitely on the long list for me. Maller is a little bit more restrained and a little bit different energy. Do you think it's because it's a, well, I guess the first. both about classical artists.

I feel like, so Ken Russell made a series of films about composers. Throughout his career, he made shorter films for the BBC in the 60s, also about composers. It's obviously just an avenue of interest for him, and I think he sees these figures as, like, great ways to explore what he's interested in in terms of, like, physical expression is the thing that he's really into. And the way that creativity often intersects with, like, desire. Both libidinal. But I think it would be a little redundant

To put both of them on there But I would put one of them on there I love Lestomania It checks a lot of boxes for me Whereas it comes out of sideways It's a bizarre Fun psychedelic thing About it's unexpected

So I'll put it Let's give it a yes for now We can always unyes it later I'm down But I think it's a yes Mahler is much more restrained movie There was a funny lady they made a second they did

didn't know about that um it's also stricand is it not yes yeah and it's um but it's it's a sequel and I think it's when she's like really famous fanny bryce so just like 10 years into the future of her life okay I know James Kahn is in it yeah I've seen it I don't remember a single thing about it no canon for you know um

bound for glory Woody Guthrie feels like something you would have seen yes David Caradine Two important facts about this movie. One, I think it is the first example of a music biopic that is not about how a person became a famous musician, but about what their life was that inspired their art. Okay. Which is the thing that you'll see. We'll talk about in some other films.

Two, this is also the film the first time CETICAM was ever used on a movie. SETICAM. Yes. Oh, that's incredible. If you've ever seen The Shining and you see the way that, you know, Danny's on the wheels. Can punch in or whatever. Exactly. Yeah.

Which was a dramatic evolution in filmmaking style. But this is like probably on the, considered on the bottom tier, the Hal Ashby canon. Okay. But it's a very, very good film. A number of people were offered the part of Woody Guthrie,

including I think Bob Dylan, who of course was wildly inspired by Woody Guthrie and Dustin Hoffman. Oh, wow. And so they went to Carradine as kind of a last resort. And he's amazing in it. And he was in very few films like this in his story. career. He was mostly in like, you know, lone wolf McQuaid, you know, stuff like like action movies and exploitation movies. And he, it's a very, very underrated film. It's just a little quiet and

slow. And it is about like observing America in the time when Guthrie was coming of age and realizing the way that downtrodden people were mistreated and that there was really like no, not only no safety net, but no desire to help anybody who had like, right? less than. And that obviously informs, like, the way he writes music that, you know, I think legitimately changes the world. I mean, he's, I think, on the list of the 30 or 40 most significant American musicians. Sure. Is it, because I haven't seen it. Is it, does it like air or like air on the side of like after school special heavy handed like? No, it's a very poetic movie. Okay. I'm going to put it in a maybe even though I haven't seen it. I would, I would maybe it

for sure, because like when we start getting into movies that we like from the 90s, just because they're only engaged projects. Like, they don't hold a candle to the filmmaking in BoundFordorri. They're just more fun. Bound for Glory is not a fun movie at all. It's a movie that shows, like, abject poverty. Right. And, but I think it deserves some recognition.

Okay. Amazing. Didn't see Lod Belly? I haven't seen Led Belly either. I would like to. A bit lost to time. But apparently very good, obviously, portraying a very similar story as Bound for Glory. Scott Joplin ragtime.

Yeah. I've seen it. You have? Not going in. Okay, great. Now we're fucking cooking with gas because it's time for the Buddy Holly story, which I absolutely love. Now, is this? This is Gary Bucy.

This is the Gary Bucy film. Yeah. So this movie is amazing. This movie is amazing. I watched a long time ago when I developed like a weird obsession with Buddy Holly, like maybe 12 years ago. 12 years ago. 15 years ago or something. portal people where you're like 14 and that leads you, maybe this is just me, but that like listening to the standby me soundtrack and then you like find out about 50s rock and roll. No, this didn't happen for you. No. I mean, I was, I was into 50s rock and roll. But I had never like, buddy Holly not sex. You know Buddy Holly not like alluring to me. So ironic though because every guy who's considered like cool in Brooklyn in 2007 dressed exactly like Buddy Holly. And you know how I feel about 2007. Okay. Just just putting that out there.

Yeah, I guess like I mean, I love the I love Buddy Holly's music but I just never like been that interested and then I got really deep and then I was like, well I need to see the film. I think I was going to Lubbock. Okay. There's a Buddy Holly museum there I went to.

Sure. So young. One might have thought he would have had a different career based on his performance in this film. Yeah, I mean, I think an underdiscussed aspect of it is just that, like, he was obviously a bit of an eccentric character. He got into a bad car accident. You can see, like, the before and after, his performance style, before and after the car accident. But he's electrifying on screen, and this is pre-accident. And, yeah, I mean, this is like a huge announcement of a major American actor, an Oscar nominated, Golden Globe nominated.

Like, you know, this movie, I think, got multiple Oscar nominations. What else has Steve Rash directed? I'm not familiar. Let me look that up. Okay. I thought you knew that might be one of your guys. The Pauly Shore classic son-in-law. I actually really like that movie.

Carly Gugino. Great movie. Really funny. It's weird to go from this to son-in-law. I agree. The historically relevant Can't Buy Me Love starring Patrick Dempsey. I love that movie. It's a great movie.

I grew up watching television in the 1980s. He directed the utter fiasco called Under the Rural. Rainbow, which starred Chevy Chase and Carrie Fisher, one of the first true bombs of Chevy Chase's career. Okay. He also directed the 2006 sequel, Bring It On, All or Nothing, followed by Bring It On in it to win it in 2007. Hollywood is so weird.

So Steve Rash has had quite a career. His Wikipedia page is one sentence long. How dare they do Steve Rash dirty like that? Well, for me, Buddy Holly story is it yes. It's going in. I agree. It's a great film. Okay.

I went back and forth on this because I actually really love this Elvis directed by obviously the goat John Carpenter, but it's a TV movie movie movie. I don't usually put TV stuff in the movie halls of fame. I think it's worth mentioning just because it's fucking amazing. And you should watch it. Yeah, Kurt Russell plays Elvis. I think you have to buy the DVD physical media because I don't think it's another one of those things that perhaps. Music rights maybe? I think so because it was a TV film. So probably like secured differently. I have a Blu-ray. Yeah, I don't know if mine, you know, I don't know the nomenclature, but I bought a physical copy. So it was a Blu-ray and not a DVD. I think it was a Blu-ray. Okay. They don't sell DVDs anymore?

They do. Sure. Okay. Well, whatever. eBay? Whatever Jeff Bezos brought to my house. I could have bought it from another distributor. I didn't.

You should have asked me. Okay, well, I needed it in a pinch. You know what? I like the Rose, 1979's Joplin Ess. Again, this also begs the question. I'm on the side of like things that are not explicitly about an artist but are kind of clearly or semi clearly about the artist's count. And I've done, people are a little mad at me at the criteria in comments because I put Velvet Goldmine in like every collection I do. And I will continue to do so because I love that movie.

I mean, let's talk about, let's talk about this movie. Okay. Round Midnight and Velvet Gold Mine together. Yeah. And I'm not there. And I'm not there, though that to me is a little bit more direct. It doesn't ever say it. It doesn't say his name. Yeah.

Actually, they all have a different name, don't they? They all have a different name. I view that as kind of a standalone, but I'm obsessed with that movie. Same. My king. I think that those three that I named, and I guess I'm not there to some extent, shouldn't really be eligible for this. Interesting. I feel like they really should be.

Because I feel like that's one of the prime ways to handle a music biopic is to, skirt the issue. But you could never sell a book adaptation of it as a biography. And it's a biopic. It's a biographical picture is the whole idea of the genre. Okay.

And so you're straining out the bio. Now obviously a lot of these movies that are meant to be true to people's experiences are riddled with lies. But once you change the name, the liberties that you can take are extravagant. So it's like a biofick. Love it.

That's good, right? Yeah. It's a bio-off. That to me is a whole other separate thing that you could do another episode about. That's so true. And another curation. That's true. Actually, Criterion, if you're watching and listening, I already know what I want to do for my next collection.

You talk about there's like a gym criterion at home. Yeah. For the new episode of bands playing pop up. Jim Criterion. He listens to every episode. Fictional bands. Yeah. That's a really fun.

So many good ones. I would start with Airheads. Airheads is top of my list. Airheads is amazing. I mean, they're almost famous, Josie than Pussy Cats. The fabulous stains, that thing you do, the commitment.

There's the Blues Brothers. Spinal Tap, we'll do this. Okay. Okay, anyways. So, well, back to the Rose. So you think it just doesn't, shouldn't count. You put your foot down. Biofick doesn't count.

I mean, it's very Janis Joplin inspired, but Bet Midler is not a Joplin-esque figure to me. No. So the movie is very cool. She has the pipes. She does, and it's cool that it shows the kind of the messiness of a Joplin-esque figure's life. But, and it would be, it's hard to do Janus, you know.

There's a, there isn't one being made right now, right? I thought that's been in the works for a long time. Who is it? The actress. I don't know. It's me. It's, I'm playing her. Can you sing, Sean?

Yeah, well enough. Really? Yeah. I didn't know this about it. You can carry a tune? Yeah. We'll do karaoke sometime. You'll see.

I can't wait in my dream. I can't, but I'm really good at karaoke. There's two different ways to be good at karaoke. I wouldn't. sing it like a funeral. You know? What if it was Chris Ryan's funeral? And his dying wish was that you sang

Ave Maria or a Jeff Buckley song at his funeral? You would say no to your best friend in life? I'm trying to think of what he would request me to sing. Maybe I will dare.

Oh, the replacements. I could see that. Meet me any place, anywhere, any time. Wouldn't that be a beautiful tribute? It's really... Chris is going to die. one day. I know.

And so are you. I kind of feel. And so am I. Yes, thank you. I kind of feel like Chris, my outlive-as-all, like in a Keith Richard sense, you know? I think there's probably something to do that. Okay, so the rose is not going in. I don't think so.

Coal Miner's daughter. I think it has to go in. Yeah, that's a yes from May Dog. Is this the single best version of this kind of movie? A Baller Loretta Lynn has an Oscar-winning performance from Cisade. C-Spacec right? I don't know. I said yeah, but I don't know.

I'm not as familiar with the history of the Oscars as you are. Okay. I'm sorry. I think, you know, I'm not a massive Loretta Lynn fan or anything, but it... She's wonderful.

It kind of serves everything that you need. It received... Yes, Space Seaske one. Like the Platonic ideal. I think so. Yeah. I don't know if it's the best version. It's very up there for me,

but I don't know for me if it's the best, but it's certainly like knocks it out of the park. Here's what, here's a couple of words on. I don't have any grievances. It's very faithful to her. It's based on Loretta Lynn's biography.

Right, which helps. Right. Which is also called Coal Miner's daughter. It's got a stellar cast. Okay, but again. It's very faithful to one person's version of that person. As are all stories. Exactly.

Just because it's their own version doesn't mean it's more factually accurate. That's true. true. And I didn't live Loretta's life, so I don't really know how true or not. It feels true, right? That's something we're looking for is authenticity, right? Insanely good cast, including Tommy Lee Jones and Leibon Helm. Yeah. And it's directed by Michael Apted. That's important me because, one, he's a documentarian. Right. He has a lot of experience with real life storytelling. Telling facts. He's also not American, and he comes to it with a very different perspective. And this is a case where unlike Bazelerman and Elvis. It's not spiritually. I really,

I really appreciate the desire to get things right from the perspective of the person who's telling the story. Is Michael Apted British? He's British. Yeah, they have a different sensibility. They do. And he's made a whole wide variety. He made a Bond movie. He's made girls in the mist.

He's made a whole con. Girl is in the mist. Good film. Yeah. Yeah, this is phenomenal. If you haven't seen it, you need to rush, run, don't walk. And then followed up by another absolute yes from me dog, 1984's Amadeus directed by Milosh Foreman

The Goat starring Afmarie Abraham and Tom Hulse Hulse Hulse This is one of the best movies of all time Yeah I was just going to say five-star classic right Yeah It's phenomenal movie One Best Picture To this day holds up

Magically entertaining and funny and sad And amazing portrait of jealousy It takes a lot of liberties I don't mind With the story and the perspective of Sallieri Yeah. Is that not matter to you? No.

Okay. Then put it in. I don't think, I don't think faithful adaptation matters to me as much except when they're trying. See, we'll get into it later, but the Bruce Springs name by epic. If you're going to bore me to death with like a straight like, this is a faithful adaptation and then get things wrong, you need to get the fuck out of my face. Do you know what I mean? But if you're going to choose entertainment and choose something. else, then yeah, take liberties.

Got no quibbles with that. Courtney Love told me that when this came out, she went to the theater like every single day and went and saw it and she was obsessed with it. Interesting. And then later... It's called Manifestation. Twice. Yeah. I just this morning, no lie, received my 4K of the People versus Larry Flynn in the mail. Again, one of the greatest films of all time. I'm a huge fan. Her performance is bar none.

I don't know what Sweet Dreams Patsy Klein starting with Jessica Lange. and Ed Harris is, but that sounds like it could be good. I've seen it. It's pretty good. It's maybe doesn't totally live up to the expectations you'd have. Does she sing? It's a solid film.

She does. I believe it's her voice. Okay. That's also an interesting, raises another question. Do you prefer it? Do you have an opinion? Should the actor sing or should they be dubbed?

This is a very big thing for Amanda Dobbins. And she assuade me to her point of view on this, which is that the actor has to sing. And if they don't, it's a mistake. Let me just make sure that Jessica Lang sings. You don't agree or disagree? I actually think it's more case by case. Like, we're going to get to back.

back to black, which I'm like, absolutely the fuck not. Do you know what I mean? Because nobody sounds. Lange did not do any of her singing in the film. Instead, the actress lip sync to Klein's original recordings. I stand correct. And I think that's probably right too, because Patsy Klein, much like Amy Winehouse, has an incredibly singular voice. Agreed. An actor will not, especially an actor with no theater. Like, maybe Amanda Seyfried, maybe because she's a singer. There's some actors that have a musical background. But you just pluck an actress and you're like, here's a year of singing. singing lessons, go sing like Amy Winehouse?

No. Vanda Seifred's a good shout because, you know, she did that performance on the Tonight Show of the Joni Mitchell song. She's an incredible singer. And I think she was up for that part and didn't get it. You famously still haven't seen it, Mama Mia? Is that an ongoing big bit bit? I've not seen Mama Mia colon, here we go again.

Got it. But I did watch Mamma Mia for an episode of a podcast. So, okay, let me just ask you a question while we're in the middle of this, right? Because we're about to get to Sid and Nancy. So this is like, obviously Sid and Nancy we both love. Amazing movie. Why are these movies good at this period of time? In the 80s?

In the 80s. In the 80s? Are these movies all really good? It's a good question. I wonder if part of it is that, well, Amadeus notwithstanding, that more interesting figures have emerged, more interesting musical figures. More known to us. More known to us. It wasn't common, right, in the 50s to know much about your pop star, right?

Everything was pretty played close to the vest. They were, you know, kind of predates like, I might be wrong with this, but like tabloid culture. Like there was. Oh, that's absolutely right. Right? There was like Hollywood Star magazine or whatever, but magazines. But they were, those figures, this was true of sports as well, were often being protected by the media. Totally.

The Joe DiMaggio's of the, Mickey Mantles of the world were famously, their antics were not portrayed. They were protected by the sources, the figures at, at News, papers and magazines back then. And now I guess the dam has burst on revealing people's sort of personal lives. And I guess like this is a question for you, but like the turn of filmmaking that happened in the 70s maybe also allowed for more interesting films to be made come the 70s, 80s, 90s, you know? I think those are probably the two reasons. Okay.

Do you have any other theories? No, I think maybe it's some of it is that we have some distance from some of these stories, you know, like maybe it's a little easier to tell these stories with 10 or 20 years distance from when they transpired rather than 100 years or four years. Right. You know? Yeah, because a lot of those 40s and 50s ones were like this guy was from two years ago or whatever. Yes, exactly. Sid in Nancy, 1986, directed by Alex Cox, starring Gary Oldman and Chloe Webb.

What a film. Is this a movie about music? Do they have to be movies about music? to be a music by a book? I'm asking you. No. Because it's not really a movie about music. No, it's a movie about a sort of chaotic and doomed couple, and it's a movie about punk.

As a perhaps ideology is not the right word, but a lifestyle. A lifestyle. Yeah, lifestyle and a tragic romance. Yeah, because, I mean, Sid Vicious famously could barely play his instrument and unplugged onstage amp, the whole thing. So I don't know how much it's about music. Would you say you like a Sid Vicious? I don't know him Do you like his contribution to popular culture?

Yeah, sure. I think the sex pistols were incredibly important whether or not you think their music is particularly good or enduring, which I'm not sure that I do. But I think culturally, you know, they were major. I won't disagree. And Sid Vicious, you know, he was cool. He was, but also,

Troubles. But also annoying. In what sense? This movie goes out of its way to show just how annoying is it in Nancy work. Right. You know, that like drug addict waste rolls. This movie is about drug addiction. Yeah.

You know, yeah. You know, they can be unpleasant to be around sometimes. Sure. You know, the movie does not glamorize them in any way. I'm going to tell you a little secret. 80% of musicians are annoying to be around. I don't know as many musicians as you do. 75 to 80% are

annoying to be around So I think Alex critics And musicians at this point Also probably similar numbers Alex Cox So I'm just saying He knocked it out of the park with this

It's a great film Bit part with Courtney Love Also How many years in right now? We have Coal Miner's daughter Listomania The Buddy Holly's story

And Yankee doodle dandy With a couple of other maybes And Amadeas Did I say Amadeus? So one, two, three, four, five, six. Okay, so we're gonna have to make some type of calls coming up. Yes, we are. That's why I asked.

Or we'll do 15. So we're starting to say, oh, these are good. I think a cannon could be more than 10. I'll follow your lead. Okay. Because I don't think we should cut deserving people because there's not a spot. I think we should just really choose the deserving people. Okay.

I've not seen around midnight. I've seen it. Bertrand Taminier's sort of portrait of, it's like an agglomeration of a number of different jazz musicians, and Dexter Gordon portrays the jazz musician. So then it is kind of biofick. It is truly

biofick. It's a great portrait of jazz music in that time, and it looks amazing. The film is shot beautifully. I don't really feel like it totally fits the mold here. Well, it doesn't qualify if it's biofick, as you said earlier. You know what? It does qualify.

and I rewatched for this. 1987's La Bamba. It's been a really long time since I've seen this one. How was it? Awesome. Yeah. I mean, there's obviously a breakthrough for Lou Diamond Phillips. What was so special about it?

I think the thing about what we were talking about, rock and roll just being so cool, it captures that really well. It also, like, I think Richie Valance has an incredible and incredibly short and tragic life story, which lends itself to a film. By nature, the scope is narrow. He died at 17. I don't know if it's an immediate yes, but it's, I really love it. I haven't seen it in 20-some-odd years. I think that's worth every watch. You would enjoy it. I'd love to. Yeah. We'll put it in a maybe. Okay. You know, it's 100% yes for me, and I'm interested to see what you're going to say.

1987 Superstar Cole and the Karen Carpenter story, which is 45 minutes long, is Todd Haynes' very first film, a student film. The cast is Barbie dolls and some found, not found footage, but some actual footage of newsreels and stuff. It's incredible. Yeah, I won't argue. I mean, I think it's a bit, it's an outlier structurally,

and that it's a short film that was not commercially released and it's hard to see. But. If you have a hacker roommate, you guys, you can see it. And if you don't care about the quality, it is on YouTube. Yeah. I think it's evident that Haynes has like a lot of love and affection for Karen Carpenter, but also makes no bones about the fact that she struggled in her life. Yeah.

To be a little serious about it. obviously this movie is quite funny in some ways. I mean, it's Barbie dolls and they're, you know. But there's very few films that deal head on with anorexia. Very few, like shockingly few. You know, we'll make movies about drug addicts and murders all day long, but anorexia is kind of taboo still, which is really interesting to me. And this film really tackles the subject of anorexia.

in a really head-on and literal way and talks about for 87, it's an early time to deal with what kind of disease it was, how the death rate, how high it is, you know. I think that's part of the reason that I was so struck by it the second time, because I had watched it a long time ago and probably was like, ha-ha, Barbies or whatever. But this time I was like, this is quite a serious film wrapped up in Barbie dolls and jokes, you know?

Yeah, I mean, almost all of Haynes' films have female protagonists. They all are often about women in pain. Safe. What a fucking masterpiece. Nine star closet. I love Haynes' work. He's probably near the top of directors I've had on the show the most number of times. So I've been doing the big picture.

I think this is an interesting one because I would love to know what he would be able to do if he actually properly had the rights to a figure like this. It'll come up again. like he's he's one of the kings of this style of storytelling. He's done some of the most interesting work because he loves music so much. But maybe we should save that conversation until we get a little further along in his career. I think it's also worth noting, though, that this film was co-written by a woman, Cynthia Schneider, and I think that's pretty important. Obviously, you know, I think a lot is made about like, why didn't he secure the rights?

And it's like because this was a college film that nobody thought was ever going to go on. go anywhere. And also past that, he burned a small bridge by sort of heavily implying that Richard Carpenter was gay in the film. So Richard Carpenter hates this film. So that's that.

Is Richard Carpenter still alive? I think so. Wow. Okay. Good to know. My roommate always jokes with me that I think everyone's dead. That I'm constantly being like, well, he died, right? And my roommate's like, Dan Eckward's alive. And I'm like, oh, he's alive. Thank God. Seventy-nine years old. Yeah, he's kick. He's kicking. He's in a few of these films that I was really brought back to my love of Dan Afrid.

1988's Bird about Charlie Parker directed by Clint Eastwood starring Forrest Whitaker. Nice solid film. Yeah, I've seen this. It's good. Yeah, it's very good. It's not a wow type of movie. It's also a real divergence for Eastwood in terms of most of the films that he directed, but a huge status fan.

Yeah. And I think mostly faithful, but maybe just like lacking some of the soul necessary for Charlie Parker movie. Right. But it's a good performance from Forrest Whitaker. To me, it's a real like maybe, but probably not. Yeah.

I mean, this is probably just my, not biased, but like inexperience and like unrefinedness that I don't understand jazz that well. And jazz doesn't blow me away on screen the way maybe rock does. But also rock has the benefit of familiarity. And there's like an echo in my heart that happens when I watch a movie about rock music. And while jazz is like awesome, it doesn't like play on the same heartstrings for me that perhaps a film about a musician, like songs that I know in well. It's interesting though because I feel like it's just really, really hard to embody the most electrifying jazz musicians. Totally.

There's been a Chad Baker movie. There's been a Miles Davis movie. I don't think there's ever been an attempt to put Coltrane on screen. Interesting. But some of those figures Actually there's a movie coming out later this year starring Anders Danielson Lee about Bill Evans

who is one of my favorite jazz musicians And you know Some of those figures are very kind of taciturn Quiet types A lot of them were junkies Sure you know Which does lend itself to good filmmaking It does

And they're cool as hell Yeah and there's something romantic about that But there's something really sad and devastating So I you know For whatever And also you know most of the musicians in jazz are black. And there's just not as many films made about black Americans, period.

We're going to get into this a little bit later because there's a couple, at least one recent, semi-recent in like the last decade, music biopic that I feel was like completely slept on. And I hadn't even seen it. And I was like, why did this person not want an Oscar? Why didn't know one talk about this? Okay. Stay tuned.

Okay. So Birdnow. I absolutely love 1989's Great Falls of Fire about Jerry Lee Lewis, starting Dennis Quay. and Winona Ryder. It's wonderful. Cooky movie. It's a cookie movie. It's a difficult subject matter.

This is one also we couldn't put in, and it doesn't stream anywhere because I think the rights are not present. This one you also have to buy physically if you want to watch it. Sounds right. I don't know if it's an automatic yes, but I do think it's so good. Have you seen it semi-recently? I haven't seen it in a while. No. I watched it on cable many times.

Yeah. You know, Terry Lewis's story is so absurd. Even by the standards of today's, like, shocking culture. Yeah. His is pretty nutty marrying his teenage cousin. For 89 also to portray that. Yeah. Very unapologetic figure in American music history.

Quades off the charts. He's incredible. It's definitely up there. Yeah. I also feel like this movie is similarly to, to La Bamba and the Buddy Holly story, all of which are about these kind of foundation. foundational rock and roll figures felt very important when I was a kid and don't feel like as important.

I don't feel like there's much interest in 1950s rock and roll amongst like millennials and Gen Z. No, I think I guess the Beatles sort of supplanted them. Yeah. And Rolling Stones as like the foundational figures, even though these were the foundational figures. We won't even, I mean, we will get into it later, but like, do you know there's a Little Richard film? Little Richard. Who's the star? Leon Russell, the main. who played the saint in the Madonna video

Like a Prayer It was from like... Leon? Like the single one the mononymed Leon? Is his last name Russell? I think so. I didn't know that. Yeah, I mean, I know Leon very well, the actor. Yeah, he's a great actor.

Is he? Oh, yeah. What else has he been in? Good question. He married one of the real housewives. He was in five heartbeats, I think. Oh, sorry, not Russell. Leon Robinson is his name.

Leon Robinson. Yeah, Leon Robbins. Yeah, five heartbeats. Correct. And cool runnings above the rim. The temptations. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, it was the year 2000.

Cliffhanger. He's played one of the villains. I think he's... Sylvester Stallone, I think body presses him into a stalactite in cliffhanger, and that's how he dies. Leon? Great actor. I haven't seen the film, so I don't want to like...

Stalagmite? Stalactnite. I think there's two different ones. Stalactite. There's a stalactite and there's a stalagmite. I think. I think you're right. Okay.

You haven't seen the Little Richard film then either. No, what's the movie called? I believe it's called Little Richard. Little Richard from a TV movie, okay. Oh, it explains it. Yeah. But I haven't seen this. My guy deserves.

Directed by Robert Townsend, who also directed the Five Heartbeats. Yes. And who's married to a woman that is on a show that me and Zach Barron love that got canceled called the wheel of time. Oh, yeah, sure. I feel little Richard deserve better, as I'm saying, than a TV movie. Okay. Agreed. To our thing.

He plays a big part. Elvis, does he not? Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. But yeah, the 50s canon not as important. I did cry watching Red Ball, La Bamba,

thinking about how they died together. It's horrible. The day the music died. Yeah, Don McLean wrote a song about it. He did. Bye-bye. He's American. Now we're in the 90s.

This is sort of our sweet spot due to our age. for me to me you are a perfect sign outside of the door Love Actually style 1991's the doors directed by Oliver Stone Because it's... Why? Because it's so ridiculous

And I again I don't think this is what Jim Morrison was probably like all the time or maybe any of the time But I think the doors occupy such an interesting place in culture, especially by the 1991 when their absolute dorm room poster core.

And there's just something so bizarre in camp about this movie. I love it. Yeah, it's okay. I think it's really, really silly. But the scene near the end of the film when Morrison's performing in Miami and like the real lizard king comes out

and he's doing five to one, that is maybe the best scene. in any music biopic where he just transforms into Jim Morrison and he has the kind of the physical movements he obviously looks just like him and he

turns his voice into Morrison's voice and he just gets taken over by the presence and that scene is so electrifying I love Oliver Stone's filmmaking at this time I love all the movies he made in the late 80s and early 90s and they were very formative for me falling in love with movies this is always

been one that I've never really been that into for Stone, but I know it has its major fans. I don't think it's like, you know, the coal miner's daughter, platonic ideal of music biopic, but I just think it's unusual, it's interesting. A lot of these films, like,

there's a lot of these films that we've been talking about. I've been like, they're great, but like, Loki a little forgettable, maybe, or a little less iconic. And I think these people are iconic and their film should be iconic. If you want to put it in, you absolutely should.

It's definitely, At least it may be. Okay. If you want to put it in, you should. Okay. It's in my collection on Criterion. Fabulous. I've not seen 1991's impromptu about Chopin.

I haven't seen it either. Hugh Grant is it? No kidding. 1993 is of what's love got to do with it is for me an incredible film. Two powerhouse performances. Yeah. That makes it, I think, worthy of going in.

Yeah, I agree. We also tried to get this one, but couldn't. Yeah, and this one was falling a little bit by the wayside, but this was a very big Oscars film when I was a kid. I remember my mom loved this movie. My mom loved Tina Turner. My mom also. Angela Bassett is.

And Lawrence Fishburne as well is dynamite in this movie. Fantastic. I say yes. It's definitely on the short list. Ike Turner, pro-work on. You know, I think he could have worked on himself a little more. I feel like he could have used some prayer, some meditation, perhaps some yoga. Yeah.

And he didn't. And I think that's bad. A lot of hate in his heart. What he did was bad. Yep. Yeah. 1993 is 32 short films about Glenn Gould. Don't know it.

You know it? Yeah, it's in the criterion collection. Okay. I don't know every film. Canonical Canadian film classic. As you mentioned it in your recent. Recently drafted by Amanda Dobbins. Okay, great.

In that draft. as you say, formerly unconventional here, the story style that it's told this sort of like series of flashes on Gould's life.

I don't know a whole lot about Gould as a composer. So I like the film, but I don't know that it necessarily is like one of the great music biopics. I think it's a very interesting film experiment.

With Glenn Gould Canadian? I believe so. Is that why it's a Canadian? I believe so. We're not going to put that one in. I'm sorry, I'm on the Domins. 1994's backbeat.

This movie is not good. Yeah, I haven't seen it a long time. Saw it in the movie theater when it came out. Yeah, I did too. It's about the Stuart Sutcliffe era? Correct. And I saw it recently and it's not good. Okay.

I love Steven Dorf, but it's not good. You know what? I forgot about 1994's Immortal Beloved. Gary Oldman as Beethoven. Who I love. And I do like this film. I'm not sure it's like 100% yes for me, but it's like a worth of watch film,

but I wouldn't say it goes in the canon. Another movie I haven't seen since I rented it from Blockbuster in 1995. At that point, I was like, if Gary Oldman's in it, it's coming into my house. What's your favorite Gary Oldman performance? I mean, I think it's Bramstokel's Dracula. Yeah, he's a great Dracula. Yeah. What about the professional?

I love that movie. I love that movie. What about Romeo is bleeding? Have you seen that? Yeah, it's not. I wouldn't, it doesn't, you know, supplant. vampire. What about true romance?

Oh, true romance. I dressed up as that for Halloween once. Drexel Spivey? That's right. No kidding. Well, what happened was... You must have thought it was White Boy Day. I did think it was White Boy Day.

What happened was I procured a dreadlock wig from my main costume of Halloween, which was sexy Adam Duritz. And then I was like, well, I have this wig. I better use it. So I also dressed up as Lenny Kravitz with a giant scarf. Okay. And...

I have a lot of Lenny Kravitz. When will you do Kravitz on the show? It's not high on the short list, but... Weird career. Not a bad career. No, great. Great tunes. A lot of jams. Great tunes. Not sure I understand his iconography very well. What does he stand for?

I don't know if he stands for anything. But I like a lot of the songs. Remember when his penis fell out on stage? I don't. That sounds like it was a great moment for you. It was a neutral moment for me, but I had it memorable. No, you're coming to do Beastie Boys. Yeah.

Clear your schedule. Yeah. That's a six hour. That's what's next at least. That's what's next for you. Wow. Shoot. I don't know about 1994 as far in Nelly.

Never heard of it. Okay, we'll skip that. Damn. Shine kind of... Not a bad film. I have a grudge against it because it took Tom Cruise's Oscar away from him. Right.

Which he should have won for Jerry McGuire. And Jeffrey Rush won it and Jeffrey Rush kind of took over and it was a real artifact of the Miramax, the rise of Miramax style. I mean, Jeffrey Rush was good in it. Terrific performance, yes, is David Helfgott, the pianist. But, yeah, this is not in the, in the, um, grace of my heart is, uh, biopic. Yes, that is loosely based on Carol King. Yes.

I do love Allison Anders. This is one of my mom's favorite movies of all time. That's huge. Yeah. And she was obsessed. I remember she, I remember her coming home from the movie theater after seeing it and recommending it to me vividly. And she's a huge Carol King.

She was a huge Carol King fan. but yeah it's obviously not eligible but it's a cool snapshot I think of this era much like all these other biofix are like pretty interesting about like they get the milieu right and yeah Al Sanders like didn't really make very many movies after this movie

sucks she's so talented I think Selena is an automatic yes it's one of the very best movies of this style star making performance great music great music filmmaking's good again narrow lens because her life was ended premature.

Yeah, but like a really cool portrait of her family and Tejano culture and all that stuff is, I think is really, really well done. It's a wonderful film. Yeah. They showed us in high school. Did they? It was like an educational. I mean Spanish class.

Oh. They were just like, this is a part of Hispanic culture. Okay. Great. I mean, it is. Yeah, that's a hard yes for me. It's wonderful. Jennifer Lopez.

One of the goats. So great. My roommate had never seen. out of sight. Well, we'll be screening it. I know. You're in Los Angeles. Great.

I'll tell her to go because it's... I mean, but... Will you come? Will you come to the screening? When is it? August 25th or 6th? I can't recall. I'm going to be in Scotland,

but I will be loving you from afar. How wonderful for you. Thank you so much. What part of Scotland? Edinburgh. Yeah, the best part. I've never been there. I'm lying.

I went once when I was 18 and I don't really remember anything. It's such a great town. I think I'm more of Glasgow girlie, but um i like glasgow edinburgh though you know scale arthur's seat you go dine in the cottages in the in the park okay it's fucking awesome i'm gonna see the cure oh that's suitable also also something fun um well you've you've put your foot down so velvet gold mine will not be going into this uh collection do you think there's any regrets about not licensing these stories from the artists the the Bowie and Mark Bolins of the world

who didn't want their stories to be told by Todd Haynes? I just like, I'm not sure this raises at a great point that we haven't actually delved into, which is that more often than not the involvement of the artist or the estate makes the movie worse.

Okay. That is just that is just fact. It's not their fault. You want to control how you're portrayed, you know, you want to rub off the hard corners. And I think we would have had a more boring movie. Okay.

Would have had the music. I love Velvet Goldman. It's too bad. It's not going in. It's a fick, yeah. Todd Hand's my king. Okay, TV movie. We're not going to that.

Hillary and Jackie. Oh, another movie I haven't seen in forever. I have never seen it. It is about... Declan Dupre. And two sisters, both of whom are cellists? Sure. Do I have that correctly?

I don't know. Rachel Griffiths. Rachel and Emily Watson. Yeah. I love Rachel Griffiths. And who's the director of this film? Anand Tucker. Oh, sure.

Okay. God, it's just not strong enough in my memory, which means it's probably not going in. We're not really representing classical music too tough here. I apologize for that. We have Amadeus and Listamania. So we are representing. That's two of... That's true.

That's quite a few. You're right. You're right. We've got another one coming up that might go in. Topsy Terfew. me? Yeah. Really good. I love, yeah, I love Mike Lee. Are you, how strong are you on Mikely?

I love Mikely. Have you seen like the bulk of the work, all the work? I wouldn't, there's a, I think I have a couple holes, but almost all of it. Okay, I'm doing a Mikely episode, and Andy Greenwald asked if you could be on it, but would you be on it with Andy Greenwald? Oh, the two of us? Yeah, I've never, I've never seen that combination in action before. Nobody has. Well, I think it would be fun.

Great, I'm so done. Because Mike has a new film coming out. I heard it. I just got a release date. December 4th. Oh, I thought it was February in 2027. And maybe that's just in the UK. Maybe limited. Yeah.

December 4th of... It's going to be a long December. There's a reason to believe. There's a new Mike Lee movie coming. Can't wait. That's his last film, sadly. Right. That's what he says.

That's why I'm doing the episode. Love him. Topsy Turvy is as good as any movie we've talked about today. It's so true. It's so true. Is it really like a music biopic of Gilbert and Sullivan? Or is it just the portrait of a show getting mounted? I guess is an interesting question.

but it feels true to life. Still counts. Let's give it a yes. Okay. Out of love and respect for Mike Lee, not Mike Nichols, also a good person. We're going to end up with like 20 in.

Okay. We're doing all music biococles of all time. I think if there's 20 great ones, we should say there's 20 great ones. I can't disagree with you. You already know, 2002's 24-hour party people, which is my number one favorite in this genre.

Yes, this is part of the collection that you curated. Yes. And a movie that we've talked about At length on the show. At length. Yeah, there's an episode you guys can go listen to it. I know that maybe formally doesn't fit into an actual music biopic, given that it's more a lens on a scene driven by a figure that wasn't a musician in Tony Wilson.

But I think it does such a great job of capturing this scene, this label, this period of time. I love it. It's funny. He's a music executive. That's true. So I think it qualifies. Do you think they're going to make or have made? I'm not familiar many movies about other music executives.

I think there'd be a really good Barry Gordy movie that could be made. Right. Jimmy Iveyon, maybe. Yeah, you probably need some distance. But like Ahmed Ertigan, you know, like there are some pretty critical figure. Clive Davis just passed away. These are people who were in the room for some of the most significant moments in music. music history. What is the name of the famed executive from Columbia who signed Bob Dylan?

Oh, of course. Whose name escapes me right now. I don't remember. And then even like Walter Yennav... Yenikoff, yeah, at CBS. For me, number one would be Seymour Stein. I would love to see a more than film because he was so interesting. Or is it Chris Blackwell from our own records? I mean, it's just some amazing figures in the history of the art form. Now, you have to be interested in one, those people's lives have to be dramatic. Right. And sometimes they're not. Sometimes they're just like people who get rich off of the work of other people. But sometimes they are.

Like Chris Blackwell's life is fascinating. You know, the way that he threw himself into the cultures of the other musicians that he was interested in, the way that he shepherded like you two and Bob Marley and all these other people. There is one other one that they did make a film. What is it? Alan McGee. You know,

I've never seen that. Creation stories. It's not very good. Oh no, we talked about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

That's right. I did see it. I did see it. But he is, I think he honestly in many ways molded himself after Tony Wilson, which is why he's, but Tony Wilson is, I think,

because he was a fascinating person and he truly devoted his life to furthering the music that he thought was cool with really honestly little regard for the financial aspect which played out to the downfall of his label but one of the best people that's ever existed. Russell Simmons.

Russell Simmons. Tragic, fucked up story. Yeah, that's actually... But hugely important to music history. Did they make a movie about him? He's still alive. I mean, he's been kind of exed out of society. Oh, I mean, obviously, speaking of Russell Simmons.

Rick Rubin. Rick Rubin. Yeah, the beard. Yeah. Long Island Zone. Eight Mile is fictionalized. It is. It's about B-Rabbit, not Eminem.

I had a thought watching the Elvis film this morning, is Eminem the modern day Elvis? Yes. Yes, right? Without question. Okay, cool. I thought I was right about that. And I mean, we can explore that more deeply if you like. I've spent a lot of time thinking about it as well.

Yeah, I think it really, I mean, at the very least, in terms of the taking a, you know, traditionally black genre and becoming the star of it, you know, yeah. But also having like undeniable skill and acuity with that music and being recognized by the community that he is appropriating from as being worthy of appropriation. Yes, totally. You know, relative to anybody. else who came before them. And it's sort of like the, you know, the wrong that proves the right in a way.

Did you write about this at Urb? I never wrote for Irb. I was not obsessed with Eminem. I was not, I thought, I really liked the first two albums, and then I kind of like completely lost the plot for me. I always liked him as like a horror movie figure. Yeah. You know, somebody who was really outsized and absurd.

But anytime he, as soon, and I like 8 Mile as a movie. Yeah, it's a good movie. I think it's very well made. It's fun. But this is pretty much exactly where I get off the train. Yeah. For me, it's when he started dyeing his facial hair. Tough.

I guess I hadn't thought about this, but I guess technically the pianist from 2002 is a music biopic. Yeah, I think so. Directed by Roman Polansky, famously starring Adrian Brody, who won his Oscar for it. His first of two Oscars. First of two. A stunning performance. I think definitely a lesser Polanski movie. One that was really celebrated at the time.

Right. And we look back on that, like, you know, the way that Polansky was being celebrated in America is very strange. You know, to me, it's not among the best of the best that we're talking about here. Me neither. I was not a huge Ray person. I wasn't either. This isn't... 2004 starring Jamie Foxx.

I think our snob will jump out a little bit here. Right. Where, to me, this is one that really kind of set the template for the modern version of this kind of story. Yeah. And Ray Charles and what he... means to music is very different than what a screenwriter can do to narrativeize the beats of his life. And it felt very... It's corny.

It felt very cheap. Yeah. I think the way that they portrayed his drug use, his womanizing, his, like, and his creative spirit, which is kind of hard to locate specifically. It's like he's this great combination of blues and jazz and boogie-wogie and all these different kinds of music that he made into a sound that sounds like America to people. Yeah. know, and he's such an iconic figure, but, and such a rascal as well.

And Jamie Fox is really good in the movie. What is it like being 100 years old in your heart? I just have an affinity. You're an affinity for jargon from all periods. You're just a jargon head. Yeah, I think so. Not a jarhead. Not a jarhead.

But a jargon head. Did Jamie Fox win an Oscar for this? He did. He did win an Oscar. It's unfortunate. Okay. We sort of brought this up earlier, but two of, 2004 is DeLovely about Cole Porter,

directed by Irwin Winkler, starring Kevin Klein and Ashley Judd. Not going. I haven't seen it. It's no great shakes. Okay. 2004 is Beyond the Sea about Bobby Darren, directed by and starring Kevin Spacey and Kate Bosworth. I'm not seen this.

Vanity Project for Kevin Spacey is way too old already at this point in the movie to be playing Bobby Darren, but he loved Bobby Darren, and that's why he wanted to do the movie. Could have cast someone else. Well, that would have not served his purposes. but he's coming off of, he's got two Academy Awards at this point. Right. He's really kind of at the center of Hollywood.

Yeah. Um, rough. Okay. Funny one to bring up because of what it wrought. But walk the line innocent. Walk the line was a good movie. Yeah. I thought.

Yeah. I don't know if it goes in canon. Conventional Hollywood entertainment. Yes, but. It's kind of similar to Ray. And we'll talk about it is a lot. Johnny Cash is way more interesting than the movie Walk the Line. Yes.

And same for June Carter Cash. I think maybe we'll talk about. I kind of maybe place this in my mind with the Bob Dylan film that came out, was it two years ago? A complete unknown. Same director. Yes, which I liked. I thought it was a fun time at the movies.

It's not going at my canon. But I didn't walk away going like, ugh, you know? Yeah, I thought a complete unknown surprise me. I had very low expectations. I thought it was a little bit more spiritually curious about Bob than I was expecting. I was expecting more like walk the line. Right. Where it's just kind of like.

More straight. beat to beat, you know, like A, B, C of their lives. And there's some of that, you know, a complete unknown. But there's some of it where I was like, oh, he's really trying to kind of get under the fingernails of what was going on with Dylan at that period of time. And it's such a short period of time that is portrayed. But, yeah, I mean, they're the same directors. And I think it's just hard to crunch somebody's life into two hours. I don't think you should do it.

You should probably shouldn't do it. I'm excited to talk about this one, even though it's absolutely not going in the canage because I'd never seen it. 2005's stoned about Brian Jones. I've not seen it. There's so much dick in this movie. Oh. Like so many penises. Okay.

Is that good or was that exciting? It was unexpected. I don't know what the, why, why? Why they were there? Why they were there? They didn't really serve a narrative purpose. Yeah, there's a lot of films that don't have full frontal. I think when I think of the stones, I'd think of dicks.

Yeah. Ben Wishaw plays Keith Richards. Sure. You see his dick. Okay. And Leo Gregory. plays Brian Jones and Patty Consonine

Consonine Consonine who was in 24 hour party people plays Rob Gretton This movie is one of the ones that I was a little sad about because it could have been good and maybe should have been better

because it's a smart thing to do right? It's like it's not about the Rolling Stones it's about Brian Jones and they don't use Rolling Stones music what they do is they use song like kind of like songs the Rolling Stones

famously are associated with playing that they didn't write which still kind of like works you know but the movie is just not very good isn't that the same tool that is used in Jimmy All is by my side I think so yeah they don't have any of the music but they have the songs

that he covered and that was the representation of the music I mean that's just a challenge with any of these movies is if you don't have the songs you're not giving people what they really are coming to the movies for Yeah. They're coming to hear the movies, the song's loud. Yeah. I mean, I think you can get away with it.

I think there's ways around it. I just don't think this one, it's kind of interesting because it's about the like, I don't know, do you know much about how there's a whole, this is like a, almost like a thriller, like, esk thing. It's bizarre. It's very druggy and it jumps around timelines, but it's about the like conceit that this, this like contractor builder guy killed Brian. Jones. The Brian Jones didn't drown that he was drowned by this man. That's what the film presupposes. Yes. And because, well, this is like apparently a real thing that. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. I guess the, the tour manager who kind of looked after Brian Jones said the builder told him on his deathbed that he did it. Okay. And there was there was some like weirdness. I don't, the family still

thinks he was murdered and has been trying to get this. Anyways, that part is interesting, but I wouldn't say it's a good movie. I've not seen 2006 copying Beethoven, starring Ed Harris, who I love. Have you seen it? No. Okay. Sorry, sorry to Ed Harris. You're making me aware of movies I didn't know that. Maybe I made them up.

What if that's not? What I was just sneaking them until I try to catch you? Copying Beethoven. That sounds fake. It sounds fake, but I think it's real. This is a contentious one for me. 2007's control about Ian Curtis of Joy Division story, directed by Anton Corbyn.

I famously don't like this movie. It is in the criterion in my collection. It was co-curated. Also, I know that many people love this movie, and I have to step back and be like, is it just a taste situation? This movie is not my taste. I think it's too dour.

I think it's too one-dimensional portrait of a character. It's beautiful. Anton Corbyn's an incredible photographer, so the imagery is beautiful. I don't think it goes in the canon. How do you feel about it? I really like it. And I always have. I've said to you on the show before that I really like it.

We sort of, I think it's okay. I think it's very emotionally affecting. And I found it powerful. It might be one of those situations where I know too much about Ian Curtis. And I also just like, I bristle at people who have been sort of sainting into like the suicide depression icons of our time when they were probably a million other things. Not even probably, Ian Curtis was very funny. And I don't, I don't, again, I know I'm contradicting myself.

I don't think you have to capture every aspect of the person. And it just for whatever reason I don't like this movie. But I understand why people like it. I don't dislike it because it's corny and terrible. I just, it doesn't work for me. I respect your opinion. Okay. Well, it's your show.

We'll give it a, we'll give it a, we'll give it a maybe. We could return. La Vie en Rousse, 2007, about Edith Piaf, starring Mary-on-Cquite Yard, a woman that you like. Do I? Do you like her? I think she has some charms. Okay. She seems like a cookey lady.

Okay. Is it just because she's French? Nope. Okay. You don't know, she has some wild opinions about things. Oh, I don't know about our political things. Okay, we can talk about those off, Mike. Okay.

Melted beams. Something she's made note of. Sorry? We'll talk about it later. Yeah, this is fine. I think the performance is fantastic. It's a movie I'll never watch again. Did she win an Oscar?

She did. Okay. It sort of announced her to American audiences. Got it. I've never seen it. She's very beautiful. She is. And it makes it has a stunning kind of physical transformation to pee off.

And I, I don't, she doesn't sing, I don't think. Does she sing? I honestly can't recall. I'm terrible with that. Wouldn't go in for me. Okay. Me neither because I haven't seen it. 2007s I'm not there.

It's directed by Todd Haynes, formerly unconventional movie. Does the inclusion of Bob Dylan's songs break the biophic rule? I wonder. That's a good question. I, this movie is just a yes for me.

I don't care what our rules are. It's going in because I think it's so amazing. And it does what I, not always. I don't think every music biopic has to be like, let's get loony, you know. But I think what particularly, and I know I don't want to retread, but I think we've probably talked about this, or you've talked about it on the big picture, maybe you and I have talked about it.

But Bob Dylan specifically as a figure to cover is such a hall of mirrors and such like a winking trickster figure. So the genius of coming at him from whatever it is, five different angles, I think is it was so brilliant and all the performances are wonderful. Kate Blanchett looks more like Bob Dylan than anyone. Sorry, Timmy, but Kate Blanchett, she's the goat. She is her. So for me, it's yes.

What about you? I think the fact that the music is in the movie means yes. Okay. You're still hung up on the rules. How does your heart feel about the film? It's not not about Bob Dylan. No. Velva Gold Mine is not not about David Bowie.

No, and Iggy Pop, it's very much those are the... I guess the characters do all have names, and I'm not there. Yeah, they have totally different names. Yeah, they're totally different names. And those names are not names from songs. I don't remember. They're just made up names. I think so.

That feel true to the actor and the folks, the Woody Guthrie S. Folk singer and the hobo and what are something, the Arthur Rambo figure. The orphan? The orphan. Yeah. Ben Wishout, right? That's the Arthur Rambo figure. It's so great.

Christian Dale. Yeah. What a film. I love it. It's one of my favorite movies ever. I, it's still revealing itself to me. The cop inside you is truly, is truly rising up to tell you not to put this in the canon.

That's funny. I'm trying to figure out, this is a movie that I think is so deep that it's like, and it is such a better expression of what we do for a living than we could ever make that I'm really cowed by it. You know what I mean? You mean what we do for living in terms of like trying to explain art? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And refracting your own interest and point of view through someone else's work, which is like that, that's really what we do. And I think it's a really, really profound act of that. Yeah.

And I love art that attempts to do that. And Haynes is like he's such a perfect fusion of academic and passionist, you know, like somebody who really goes with his heart. Jargonhead strikes again. He writes from such an emotional place. Yeah. But he's so in the weeds on the details.

There's so many, like, little choices that are made. And, like, even just the song, like, I'm going to Acapoco in this is fucking unbelievable that Jim James does. And Jim James is in the movie. And that's such a strong pull. You know, that's a real, that's a ball knower's choice. Most of these movies are like, oh, yeah, you know about Aretha Franklin? Here's respect. Like, they're so boring.

They're so obvious. They're broad. They're for the gym pop. You say they make $60,000 a bazillion dollars or whatever. We'll get into Michael, you know, when we get to the end of this. But I'm not there as for the heads, you know? It is. And I think some of these films should be for the heads.

I don't think everything should be made for maximum commercial impact. You're right. Sorry to take a stance. Sorry to Marianne Cotillard with my outlandish opinion. Only one of us has an MBA here. Can you believe only one of us is an MBA? You wouldn't know it from listening to this podcast. That it's me.

This doesn't count, but I'm. wanted to put it in to mention 2007's Walk Hard the Do Wecock story. I just think it's worth mentioning that they pulled their fuck shit so many times that we had to make a... Jake Kasden had to take a stand and make a film being like,

please stop doing this. And they didn't, they didn't stop doing it. So that's the thing is, the movie's very funny, right? It looms large. But also, like, it didn't... It impacted nothing. Like, it did nothing.

Like, these movies, like, Michael just happened. It made a billion dollars. We've learned nothing. No. But it's a really funny movie. You should watch it. I've not seen 2007's El Contante about Hector LeVoe.

Oh, yeah, with Mark Anthony. Yeah, I have seen this. Is it good? Yeah, it's fine. Okay. Is Mark Anthony a good actor? Yeah, I think so. 2007's crazy about Hank Garland?

Haven't seen it. I don't know it. Is Cadillac Records of Music Biopic? It is. It's about... Chess Records? Chess. Adrian Brody plays the founder of chess. Gosh, Beyonce plays witch 60s, Shantus.

Oh my God. Her name is escaping me. Shantus. You know how sometimes you can really tell that you were a music writer. I think so. I think it's out of James. It is out of James. And Jeffrey Wright plays Muddy Waters. And Mostef, aka Yassine Bay, plays Chuck Berry.

I've not seen this film. Yeah, I've seen it. It's kind of a stiff. I really would love to see most stuff playing Chuck Berry, though, because that doesn't make any sense to me. Yeah. Couldn't be a more opposite of a person than Chuck Berry. I mean, do you want to watch a movie where Adrian Brody and Beyonce are in love?

No. Okay, well, case closed. And again, love and respect in my heart for Beyonce. I don't think she's a good actress. 2009's The Soloist about Nathaniel Ayers. Do you think Jamie Fox was like, did it once, bitch? A little bit. Let's do it again.

Yeah, I do think so. I didn't see this. I love Robert Donnie. Oscar Bate. It's fine. Joe Wright coming off of, you know, Pride and Prejudice and right before atonement. It's okay. It's based on an LA Times story that is pretty interesting.

Okay. Not going in. This is one I was sad. I actually didn't have time to watch, and I've not seen it. Because I, much like we kind of talked about earlier, but we're talking a bit more about jazz and rock, but there's not a lot of hip-hop music biopics,

even though arguably there definitely should be more. Have you seen notorious? I assume you have. Of course I have, yeah. Is it wonderful? No. Okay. It's fine.

It's standard estate managed. Okay. glorification of a great dead artist. Is it like dicey, fun, cutty? I mean, Jamal Wooler, aka Gravy, portrays Biggie, and he's not bad. Okay. And there's a really, really fun performance from Naturi Nodden as a little Kim. Yes, that's what I heard from 3LW.

Yeah, she's awesome. And Angela Bassett plays Valletta Wallace, so, you know, it's like, that's pretty good. You know, I think in the aftermath of all the Puff Daddy information that we have, Derek Luke's portrayal is a little complicated, you know. I, this is for me one where I was just like, I'm a little too close to this. Right. You're too much music journalist? Just too much like Biggie kid in the 90s.

Like Biggie was, if you were living in New York and loved rap, Biggie was the focal point of everything. I think I'm going to say something and I want to test it out with you. That's just a forming opinion in real time. I wonder if rap is honestly or hip hop is the hardest to portray on screen because there's some, it's so about authenticity and there's something very real and gritty about a lot of rappers and their culture and immediately just becomes fucking corny when it's on screen.

It's so interesting though because I think it's... The scene in Michael where he goes to talk to the gang members to teach him how to dance to do the Crip Walk. Yeah. It's a bad scene. We're all together. I've given this a lot of thought because I've covered rap for so long. I think a big part of it is that there's this weird collision that is not unlike someone

like David Bowie where you've got these often kind of very... creative and internal people who know that a lot of the work that they have to do is about kind of myth making and so they build their personas very dramatically especially you know the East Coast superstars in the 90s Jayzies Biggie Nas like all these figures

they kind of wrote fantastically they used a lot of personal biographical detail but they invented characters and so they already made themselves cinematic so it's like a little hard to try to like bridge the gap between who you created and who you are.

Perhaps the film would have to like undo that, you know, and show who they really were. That's why I mean, like, we need like an artist like a Todd Haynes to kind of untangle some of those things. And like George Tillman Jr., who's not a bad director per se, but he directed notorious. And it was like, it was given a proper studio treatment. It's like a Fox Searchlight movie. It's very, very professionally made. It's not like some dingy, you know, less than version of the movie.

But I think in doing so, it just kind of reveals the failings in the trappings. of these kinds of movies. Right. So I don't know. I'm sure there will be more as I'm sure that when we're in our 60s, there's going to be a Kendrick Lamar movie. You know, it's going to win somebody in Oscar.

There will be more stories like that about interesting figures who've come through that space. Todd Haynes make a Big L movie one. I don't know if Todd is the most well suited to that. But, you know, of course you could see somebody like Coogler, like taking a long look at somebody like Kendrick. Google make a Tupac movie one. And we just pretend the other one didn't happen.

That's even better. That's an even better idea. I think the other one is not good. For me personally, I think Tupac is one of the most interesting figures. But you'll never be able to do warts and all. That's the thing is because the estates control the music. And so, like, Tupac does some tough things. You need some hard things in the world. I know.

And so how can you show those things, honestly, while getting sign off from the estate, who is desperately trying to maintain the kind of emotional sanctity of those dead people. So they didn't continue to sell records forever. I wonder if what happens at a certain point the estate is so far removed that it allows things to happen. I don't know. I mean, great example is Prince,

which we haven't. That shit got buried. That wasn't a biopic. That was a documentary, yeah. I just think that this stuff needs to go into the public domain. Yeah. How long does that take?

100 years. Like Mickey Mouse just went into the public domain. Love him. Mickey Mouse biopic went. I don't know if in 100 years kids are going to be like, I better fucking get to the theater to see the Tupac biopic. I hope so.

You won't be alive for it. You don't know what I do with my biohacking. You don't know what, what, what, uh, methodologies I'm putting into place and how long I'm going to live. It's going to be at the earliest, 2092. Don't threaten me with a good time. How old are you being 2092? It'll be 90.

I was born in 1982. I'll be 110. That's doable. 110. That's literally doable. That's possible. I will be 110 years old on my walker going to see. The Tupac film. I'll put a proviso in my will that if you make it to 110, your family inherits half of my estate.

No, the proviso I want is that you pre-record yourself singing hallelujah. And that plays at my funeral. That's not in my range. As a duet with Chris Ryan. Okay. 2010s. Oh, no, sorry, we have one more, which for me, actually, I really love. I'm not seeing this movie.

It's really good. 2009's Nowhere Boy, directed by Sam Taylor Wood, starring Aaron Taylor Johnson, I believe it's where they met because they're now married and Chris and Scott Thomas. It's in my criterion collection because I do quite love it. It hits a lot of boxes for me, which is it comes at the story a bit sideways. It's about John Lennon's life basically leading up to the Beatles, which is a smart way to do it. Again, it's not going to be as shiny and it's not going to be as shiny. and it's not going to grab as much money, right? Because there's not really Beatles music in it.

But I think his, as if you care about the Beatles and you care about John Lennon, it's a very interesting portrait of his upbringing and his relationship with his mother and his aunt who raised him and Kristen Scott Thomas is fucking phenomenal. Aaron Taylor Johnson is wonderful. It's beautifully shot. I quite liked it. I haven't seen it. I don't know if it should go in the canon.

I'll put it in a maybe. really like it. Can I ask, just take a pause here? Yeah. There are like 50 movies from 2010 to now that fit this bill. That were that good? No, no, that are just, they just were made. Yeah?

Like, there were like 10 in the 70s. You're going to ask why so many got made? Yeah. Don't you think it's kind of the same reason? There was more and more subject matter and also more and more greedy. More and more of these movies make money? I think it's more that, yeah, I think it's more that, Stuff like Walk the Line and Ray proved that they could be commercially viable if done correctly.

Yeah. Or correctly. Quote unquote. That's satisfied audience expectation, right? So like, but I mean, just look at this list. But they don't all try to be that, which I think is cool. You know, as much as that did show commercial viability. I think it's more that like the barrier to entry to making film gets lower and lower.

I think you have more subject matter to pull from. and I had to guess that's what it is. I think it's also a very gratifying space for actors to go. Sure. Because they don't have to expose themselves in the way that you usually are asked to when you're creating a character. But when a person is a real person and you're...

Embodying. You're mimicking a little bit. It's a risk, but it's a different kind of risk. Right. And there's a kind of like, you know how to hit your mark. Like, you know what you're going for. Yeah. Interesting.

I personally don't think the runaways of 2010 is a great movie. It is in my Graturing collection. Someone messaged me, but you said it was bad. This is a co-curation. I remember enjoying it. I think it's...

Case do. I think it's fun. I think Floria Sigismondi is a good director and visually it's appealing. I just found the storytelling very weak. And again, I know too much

about the runaways, probably. There's two full characters that don't exist. There's a bassist who has no name and doesn't speak. That's weird because she didn't give up her life rights or whatever thing. Or the drummer, I can't remember which one. It doesn't have to be, listen, again, it doesn't have to be accurate, but you can't just be like that person didn't exist and just hope that nobody notices that, like, a main member of a four-person band just doesn't speak the entire film. That's weird to me.

Makes sense. I didn't, I only watched a bit of this because I ran out of time, 2010's Gainsburg of Heroic Life. I did see this. Yeah. What's her name is in it? Gorgeous Victoria's Secret Model, Letitia Costa. Yes, she stars in many films in France these days. I heard it was not very good, but what did you think?

I don't really remember it very well. He, to me, would be a prime candidate for a fantastic biopic, so I'm kind of surprised that maybe this one didn't land the plane. I was directed by French comic artist Jan Safar. comic artist like a clown? No, like he writes comics. Oh, like comic books? Yes.

Oh. Unusual choice. It does have animation. I remember. There you go. Yeah. That explains it. I didn't see this and now I'm kind of sad.

I'm sure it wouldn't have been canonized, but it's probably good. Sex, drugs and rock and roll from 2010 about Ian Dury, starring Andy Circus, aka Gallum. Not an Ian Dury person. Don't really know the blockhead super well. They were, I'm not like musically very obsessed with them but I found them to be an interesting artist in a time like they were sort of like a bridge artist

in post-punky world. I was gonna say like college rock right? Like a leading point. Yeah, I mean they're post-punk. It's British so it's like yeah. But I didn't see this so I'm sorry. Apologous to Andy Circus.

Didn't see who do you love about Leonard Chess starring Alessandro Navola? Nope, either. Two movies about Leonard Chess. Weird. But cool, maybe he was very iconic. We've both seen greetings from Tim Buckley.

It's not going in. Nope. Nope. Okay, now I'm so excited to talk about this because I had never seen this. Oh, okay. This is, to me, a five-star masterpiece. It is 2013's behind the condolabra of Out Libraachi, directed by Steven Soderberg. Matt Damon should have won an Oscar for this.

I know he wasn't eligible because they shoved this on HBO because probably it was too gay. to be put the studio to put... Just greenlit as a TV movie. Because it was too gay to be in theaters. Matt Damon is phenomenal. When they give him an Oscar for The Odyssey, I want you to know that this was for Behind the Candle Opera. I won't argue his performance is hilarious.

But also really good. Like actually, yes, the whole movie is camping and hilarious, obviously. It's fucking about Liberacee. But it's also quite emotionally resonant and moving. Soderberg is incredible. The directing is amazing. It's visually gorgeous. my man Rob Lowe

as the doctor Yeah plastic surgeon This movie is wonderful I'm glad you found it Yeah I mean I've been on this corner for years And you know I love Soderberg And I don't know why just maybe because it was a TV movie And there wasn't a lot of pompom circumstance around it

Or I guess there was but I loved every minute of it I mean again is it a music biopic? Yes Yeah Liberace not a traditionally I think it's I think it's Eligible, assuming you're okay with a TV movie status.

Now, there was another TV movie where we disqualified. I guess we can't put it in because of the TV movie because of Elvis, but I wanted to crow about it because I think this is an incredible film. And probably I'm late. And I know it's deeply beloved by the gay community. But this movie is phenomenal. Michael Douglas? Can be seen on HBO Max right now. Right now.

That's where I watched it. I didn't see 2013's Jimmy All is by my side. directed by John Ridley starring Andre 3000. I did. I did not think it worked. Okay. No music rights. Rough. I'm surprised Andre 3000 agreed to do that without the music rights. I think he helped to get the movie made just period. Passion project for John Ridley, long-time screenwriter in Hollywood.

But didn't totally come together. Okay, here's another one that... This is the one I was referring to earlier that I actually don't even remember this coming out, and I didn't see it until this week. It's 2014's Get On Up, the James Brown biopic starring Chadwick Boseman. This movie is incredible. His performance is unreal.

He should have won an Oscar. It's amazing. Ray? Compared to this? Yeah. I mean, this movie... I liked how... They're very similar movies.

White filmmakers trying to tell the stories of some of the most significant black artists of all time. You've got these dynamic performances. It's a little like beat-to-beat for me as well. Really? Because I felt that there was a lot of interesting stuff done with like the sort of timeline jumping and like and the way it was edited and things that like I would expect him to show him, the director to show and milk for emotional resonance. He didn't. Like there's the scene where it perhaps like his mother comes back from after having abandoned him when he's famous comes backstage. And instead of showing any sort of like actual confrontation, it just flashes back to like several. really like kind of powerful moments of her rejecting.

I thought, I really loved how the story was told. I don't know. I really thought this movie was great. I think it's good, not great. It's a little weird. It's like it's written by the Butterworths, these two British playwrights who are super talented, obviously. I'm watching the agency right now.

It's like produced by Brian Grazer and Mick Jagger. It's a little, it's still a little Hollywood pro forma. I think Shadow Bozeman is off the chain. He's so good. And it like, it sort of reveals some. of the kind of menace and mania of James Brown, but doesn't go all the way. It gives you all the drill instructor stuff,

which is really good, where it's like he was such a harsh band leader, and that's part of what made them such a dynamic performance troupe. But... For you, no. For what? For you, it's no. It would be a no.

It is, I agree with you about the performance, though. Like, if Jamie Fox can win for that, why can't he would be fucking dancing in the movie? The dancing is amazing. Also, it's just like he really becomes James Brown. Like, his facial, like, he's so electric. But a lot of this, the charts checked, is chalked up to Ray was a big hit and this movie was not. This movie flopped.

Why? I mean, James Brown is a confrontational figure in American culture. Ray is very warm. He's a guy who sang America the Beautiful at the Super Bowl. Sure, sure. Okay, well, we'll put it as maybe just so my heart can be left unchecked. I'll make a letterbox list for you guys of the yes. and the maybe, so you can check out the maybys if you want.

This is also a maybe. I put it in my criterion list because I just really like it, but Love and Mercy, the Brian Wilson biopic. I think I'm a real Paul Dano Stan. I think he's really just amazing and everything. He's so good in this as young Brian Wilson. John Cusack, I think pretty good. Some people are a little out on the half of the movie

where it's John Cusack. I think Dano is exceptional. Yeah. And the scene when they're, are they writing good vibrations? I can't remember what song they're right. And he's really starting to kind of lose it is extraordinary. It's like great filmmaking. I think to me it's automatically in.

Okay, good. I think it's that split structure that it has is so original. I didn't know. I thought you were going to be like a movie. No, no. I'm a big fan. Weird thing where like this movie is made by this guy named Bill Polad, who's the son of a very famous Minnesota billionaire.

He's like, I guess, a NEPO or whatever, but like has really used his power. for good. Like he makes mostly movies about musicians. What else has he directed? Another one of the movies on this list, which is kind of an interesting movie about the Emerson's. Donnie and Billy Joe. I'll look it up and I'll tell you about it.

So he mostly makes music films? Yes. I mean, those are two of like only three or four movies that he's made. But he like, he produced Brokeback Mountain and produced the Runaways actually. And he directed Love and Mercer. He directed Dream and Wild. Owned the Minnesota Twins.

Yes. Yeah, this movie is great. I really, Elizabeth Banks plays his love interest wife later, older Brian Wilson. Yeah, I love it.

And again, it kind of solves the problem of cradle to grave by just having these two timelines, you know? Okay. I'm glad we agree. Easy. 2014 lowdown Joe Albany didn't see it. L. Fanning is a?

Is this? Is it John Hawks? Yes. John Hawks as a strung out jazz musician. Joe Albany. Yeah, this is actually a very good film. Okay. It's independent film, small.

I mean, I haven't seen since he came out. I don't remember a lot of the details. But really, really strong John Hawks performance. It's not going in, but it's like I would recommend people check it out. I'll maybe it. We'll put an R. Maybe list. I never saw Jersey Boys. I apologize.

It's not of interest to me. I love the four seasons, but... Not a fan at all. Clint Eastwood. They made the musical. that's still going. Okay, let's talk about 2015 straight out of Compton. Mm-hmm.

Like, on one hand, yes. Very entertaining. Very entertaining. On the other hand, does it go in the canon? Huge hit. Yeah. Strong performances. Strong performances.

I enjoy. Corey Hawkins, I think it's quite good as Dr. Dre. Yeah, genuinely enjoyed watching it. Yeah. It's a little near and dear to my heart, because I up in Torrance and like crunch on all that's little very. Does O'Shea play his dad?

Yes. He does. And he's really good too, obviously. And he looks just like him and. I, it elides a lot of the truth. It's not the most factually accurate portrayal of what was going on with these guys. And back to my point, it doesn't do that in service of being fantastical. It does it in service of not polishing their legacies.

I don't like them. I don't like that. Yeah. There's no D. Barnes stuff in this. for example. I think it's important. I think it's the most, it's really the only major hip-hop film,

yeah. Biopic that has broken through to the mainstream. Yeah. I mean, okay, but does breaking through the mainstream is that important, more important to you than being really good?

It's up to you. I'm going to put it on as it maybe. Okay. I think you should have been better. Yeah. You got, you forget, though, what a big hit it was.

How, like, this movie is very well marketed. I know you're the MBA here. In bands playing town, it doesn't matter how big of a hit things were. It matters how good it was. Good to know. I was just repping for Lowdown, which I did see when it came out in the movie theater. Of course you did.

Before I had a movie podcast, I was like, I just want to see this John Hawks movie. You've always been a real one. Thank you. And everyone knows that about you. Appreciate it. Didn't see Miles ahead. The Miles Davis biopic directed by unsarring Don Chedel. I did.

Good? You know, admirable act. That doesn't really work. Okay. Ewan McGregor, who does he play? I don't even remember. Okay, great. His manager, probably.

Born to be blue, the Chet Baker biopic, starring Ethan Hawk. Good performance. Not a great film. Kind of similar to Miles Ahead. Okay. Is Ethan Hawk also a big jazz head? I think he's interested in American artists. Sure.

I saw The Light, the Hank Williams movie, starring Tom Hittleston from 2015. Not bad. Tom Hylston, British. Yeah, you'd think this wouldn't work, but he's a pretty good... No, British. people who really always can do American, no problem. It's the other way around that doesn't work that well. Yeah.

I don't think it's going in, but interesting. But it's good. Okay. Are you guys the ones that are always talking about Florence Foster Jenkins? Is that an Amanda? Always talking about him. Yeah, I find that you're always talking about it. I think we talked about it one time on the Merrill Street Hall of Fame.

So I don't know about always. It's not a good film. Okay. Should not go in. And we are not always talking about it. You're insane. You don't want me going around town telling people that you're always talking about Please don't put in the newspaper that I'm always talking about Florence Foster Jenkins.

Nina from 2016 starring Zoe Sal Dania and what I believe was a bit of blackface. Yes. That's bad. A choice she said she now regrets. We shouldn't do that. It's not something I would recommend. Sing Street is fictionalized, so I don't know why it's on this list. Fun movie.

It's a great movie. Very fun movie. Hard recommend from us, but it's not part of this. I own this film on Steelbook. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's not. That doesn't mean any.

thing coming from you. I have to say at this point you owning a thing I still got a lot of holes. Okay. I'm trying to figure out how to film in every day. All eyes on me, the Tupac story very bad. Bad in and out.

England is mine quite bad. Quite bad. I haven't seen it. Yeah. Again, good idea in the similar to the nowhere boy structure. It's about Morrissey's upbringing before like it literally ends which is kind of cool with Johnny Marr knocking on his door you know and I love Jack Loudon but it just doesn't really work that well okay out Morrissey is such a ridiculous figure that I think you have to

you have to you have to go full Bazlerman you know in order to like you can't try to play it straight because he's so ridiculous who should play Morrissey like circa 1995 Morrissey oh a current actor yeah Willis Pullman maybe? Wow, but not British. Could you not act? Could you not do an accent? I think that's asking a lot.

I mean, I don't, I'm thinking- Jack O'Connell? Which one's Jack O'Connell? He's in Back to Black. He plays the husband. What's his name? My. Jack O'Connell is like such a lad.

He has such a thick, dick. He doesn't look at anything. Like, he couldn't, I don't know if he can embody Morrissey. Ben Wischall would have been an interesting choice like 10 years ago Yeah What about your guy from Why don't I want to call it? It's not Demolition Day

What was this? Disclosure Day? Disclosure Day? Oh, Josh O'clock. I think he might be great. Good choice. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. He's not exactly the look,

but I feel like he might be able to. The mood. The mood. He's got the mood. Yeah. Anyways. Oh, what about, do a leap up, Mr. Doolipa.

Calum Turner. Yeah. He doesn't have the spirit, but he's an actor. He is an actor. Isn't that what you're supposed to do? How tall is Morrissey? I feel like he's a short man. No, Morrissey, I think is quite tall.

Is that true? Okay. Morrissey height. He's 510 to 6 feet. 510. Imperial, 511. What is Imperial? I don't know.

That's tall. Is that not tall? 510? For a British man? I think Calent Turner is like 6'5. Okay, so hot God really God really gifted him with many

You like him too, huh? I've not seen him in anything I just like him because he's hot And he's married to do Alepa It's interesting, wow I'm really excited for neuromancer That's a TV show, but I am too

Can't wait As someone who was a dork about neuromancer 20 years ago Same I might reread in advance Okay, the next movie I'm very passionate about And I think it definitely goes in It is a

was not a commercially successful blockbuster. Have you seen this movie? I've recommended it to you, but I feel like you've It's fallen on deaf ears. NICO, I have not seen it. It's quite cool. It's about Niko. But it's about Nico in 1988 as the title implies. It's really dark. It's really gritty. It really doesn't pull punches. She's a drug addict. She's a husband. They're able to use her music. I don't know how any of this happened, but it's, and it's, you know, she had a kind of complicated familial situation.

She had a son with, is it Alundalam? Alain de Lama. That, that he never, um, he never, acknowledged, but his parents raised him.

So, um, it's, it's really good. Ben Gibbard of Death Abercutty. Are you popping it in? Recommended this to me. Yeah,

I think, I really think, I mean, it's not like a, bring your family. to the theater and get some popcorn and have a laugh movie, but like it's a really, really good music biopic. I'll add it to my list.

It's on the criterion channel right now. Oh, sweet. Fantastic. Okay, this one, I had not seen and I watched for this. I thought it was really good. Roxanne Roxanne Roxanne from 2017. Was that a Netflix movie? It was.

About Roxanne Chante, one of the first, maybe the first commercially successful female rapper. Did you see this? I think so, but I honestly don't remember. Did you just revisit it? Yeah, I literally just watched it. I had never, I had never seen it. I genuinely liked it.

It was a Sundance movie in 17, and I feel like maybe Netflix picked it up out of Sundance. Sure. Okay. I recommend it. I don't know if it goes in the canon, but in terms of what we're talking about, like, they're not being that many rap movies.

This was one that I genuinely thought was good. Her life was interesting. there's like a young Knaws in it Queensbridge Yeah Rehershawley is in this film And he's really great

And is he? Who does he play? He plays her Like 14 year old or husband It's actually a good movie That's worth watching And I'm surprised I didn't really hear much about it Maybe because it was a Netflix movie

And it's about a black woman that wasn't that famous. If you want to drop it in, drop it in. Your favorite, music by Ophic of All Time, 2018's Bohemian Rhapsody, directed by Brian Singer, starring Robbie Mulloch. Yeah, I mean, it stinks, obviously. It's terrible.

It's really bad. And, you know, it's really bad for a variety of reasons. I think it's misconceived, but it's also, it was a nightmare of shooting the movie because Brian Singer kept disappearing while they're reading the movie. What do you mean by misconceived? I think it's, reliance on the tropes that are set by movies like Ray

makes it just kind of a bit boring and predictable. And Freddie Mercury is one of those people who, like James Brown, like Ray Charles, like Johnny Cash, is like, belongs on the elemental table, you know,

like isn't something that you can really capture. Totally. Especially when you have a bitch in your ear saying, don't do that. Which is his, a long-term partner that I think hold the rights of the estate. Is that right? Is that true? Is that not true? It sounds right. I mean, I might be wrong. I'm sorry, don't sue me, but. Yeah. And, you know, Freddie Mercury was just a crazy person in the best way. Yeah. And the movie is like, it shows some of

his excesses, but not really, it's not as extravagant as it should be. You know, it's a movie that really wants to be, like, heartwarming at the end. Should have been more like behind the candelabra. Yeah. Or Elvis. Probably. Probably. Baselurman's Bohemia Rhapsody. It's also like, it's more of a villain now because it made $900 million, which is crazy. Because people just love Queen and Queen's music is so... And still people to this day, like, come to state to me and that movie's good. And I'm like, just...

Everyone saw it. Loving Queen and this movie being good are two different things. And that's okay. It's okay to love Queen and not like this movie. And there's stuff in the movie that is so cool. Like when they're recreating Live Aid and he's doing the like, day. You know, he's like doing the call and response with the crowd. It's awesome.

It's awesome. It's totally fun. And those songs totally hold up. I listen to Queen all the time. Like Alice loves Queen. Sure. So I get why it worked for so many people. When you watch the movie, it's so badly edited.

The screenwriting is so bad. Where was Brian Singer going? Do you know? To your house? Not. No, gallivanting. I don't know, whatever the fuck he's doing. And so Dexter Lawrence had to kind of step in and save the movie.

That's why it says credited Dexter Fletcher. Fletcher, excuse me. Completed production. Mr. Lawrence plays a defense event for the Dallas Cowboys. Great. Yeah, it's just a no. But it's, I think it's worth talking about as like, what is the opposite of a Platonic ideal? Movie from hell.

Yeah, like egregious, egregious misuse of don't do this. Should be destroyed. 2018's Blaze, Blaze, this is a good movie. I don't know if it's canon good, but it's pretty good. I like it a lot. I had Ethan Hawk on the big picture to talk about it. I don't have to write about that. I'm not bragging.

I'm just sharing a piece of information. People are interested in Blaze, Blaze Foley. I was not familiar with before I saw the movie. And I really liked the way that this movie told his story. Especially his romance, his love story. Do you think it's canon? I think it would be a cool choice. It's an outlier, but it's a cool choice.

All right. I'm not precious about the canon. The more people see good movies, the better, you know? I agree with that. Never saw Lido about Victor St. Soy. Don't know it. Sorry.

Nor I. Rocket Man. Right in the trash. I'm not a fan. Right? Wherever we put Bomey and Rhapsody, that belongs there as well. Yeah. I didn't see Judy.

I did. She won an Oscar. Yeah. That doesn't mean it's good. I've heard from members of the gay community that this was not a good movie. Yeah. And I think if those members were not a fan of it, it's pretty indicative. because Garland isn't a gay icon.

I really didn't like the movie at all, and I think that Selweger's performance is really over the top, and I was annoyed the whole Academy Award season that she was the frontrunner from the day the movie was screened all the way until she won. Just because people love Judy Garland.

And she's, like, transforming. Right. And it's a very tragic story that gets, it gets an actor to play very big. And so the same way that, like, Rami Mollick won best actor for Bohemian Rhapses. It's very big and very gestural and, yeah. Never forget my theory that Freddie Mercury pushed him off the Oscar stage when he won because he was so mad about the performance.

Do you know he fell? I do. So yeah, I don't like Judy. Okay. Was the dirty theatrical release? No, Netflix. Also, trash. It doesn't matter.

So the movie's terrible. Respect to Jeff Tremaine, who we love, but that movie is really bad. The Jackass films are masterpieces. This movie is absolute garbage. Bolden, about Buddy Bolden, didn't see it. Nor I. Okay, Lords of Chaos. Is this based on a real van, huh?

Yes. So. I don't think I realized that. Have you seen it? Yes, I think so. Well, it's... We're heading into COVID time where I was like watching streaming movies a day. Yeah.

Lords of Chaos is not a great movie, but I do, I do think it's interesting. I wish it was better. Here's why. Okay. The story is psychotic. It's about black metal. It's about mayhem. who was basically the first Norwegian black metal band.

And the guitarist, whose name I actually don't remember, Ethereum, they went by these like names, was murdered by the bassist, Varg. Yes, I know that story. And prior to that, they had incited all these church burnings, and they had incited some guy who was like in their circle who murdered a guy in a park. It's like all the, the story is insane.

Okay. And the movie is just like, doesn't, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's really music-video-y, because he's such a great music video-y, because he's such a great music video director. Yeah. Like, it's, it's kind of. Look at this cast. I know, it's, it's hard. A young Scarsguard, a young Kilmer, Sky Ferreira.

It's, it's like the bonus Scarsguard, the one that does, the youngest one. Yes, his name is Walter. Volter. Rory Culkin Oistin. Oistin. He's the guy who gets murdered. Yeah, Skyfarer.

Maybe I didn't see this. Yeah, maybe you haven't. It's honestly worth a watch because it's crazy, but it has the things that I would want it to have to be a great movie. Like, it is campy. It doesn't do a heavy-handed murdered Norwegian death metal story because Norwegian death metal

is kind of ridiculous. But by and large, it's not a great movie. I'm going to seek this out. You should see it. It's worth seeing. the guy who plays Varg is quite good. Emery Cohen. He's a terrific actor.

Yeah, he's incredible. He, I mean, and I like Roy Culkin quite a bit too, but the character of Varg is so psychotic, and he does such a good job. Okay. Next, Stardust from 2020, the David Bowie film. With no David Bowie music, right? No David Bowie music. Not good. Nope.

I am woman, Helen Reddy. Didn't see it. I haven't seen it because it was called I am woman. I've been that past. or any future films about women. The United States versus Billy Holiday? Yeah. I didn't see this one.

I saw it. It went straight to streaming because it was COVID. Yeah. But Andrew Day was nominated for an Academy Award for her performance. Oh, I like lead annuals. I do too. Yeah. Not canon, though.

It's okay. To me, another movie that's trying to capture Billy Holiday's struggles of addiction and her inspiration, but it just ultimately all kind of, It just kind of flattens everything, you know? It's my least favorite thing in the music topic. And you can see Lee Daniels trying to break convention because he's such an audacious filmmaker, but this doesn't really work. 2021's respect about Aretha Franklin starring Jennifer Hudson.

Didn't think it was good. Okay. Did you see it? No. I think Amanda liked it. Yeah. I think Patrick Sandberg, my friend, who we have a 75% overlapping film taste. So often when he advises me, I agree.

And then there's like 25% where I'm like, we diverge. But he really liked it. Cool. Jennifer Hudson's trying. Okay. Great. Aretha Franklin is on that list of those other people where I'm just like, there's just never going to be another person like this.

No. They are complete, there is no way to represent what they are in a meaningful, like, narrativeized way. Especially not, but it's someone like Jennifer Hudson who I do like, but she's, she's so far away from like what Aretha Franklin was. There's also, I'm not talking about talent. Aretha's power as an artist in the 70. is way more interesting to me than her like rise in the 60s. You know, when she's in total command of what she's doing and the albums that she's making,

they're not the, I don't like the music as much as the music from like 65 to 72. But what she does from 72 to 79 is so fascinating. And that's just the music nerdy thing. It's just my personal interest. And the movie is not really interested in that at all. It's like, here's how, you know, she worked with Motown and became XYC. It's to your point of like, it's the, I guess it hopefully would be what the filmmakers is interested in that we would not be interested in.

Correct. We talked about creation stories. It's not good. It's not going in. Tick, boom, Jonathan Larson. Have you seen it? Nope.

It's Lynn Manuel Miranda's directorial debut. Directing Andrew Garfield as a musical theater director? Who is Jonathan Carson? I think he's sort of like an aspirant Sondheim-esque figure. Okay. And it's a true story and it's, I think, pretty great. Okay. I didn't see you in theaters.

I wish I had. It was a Netflix film and it was meant to be like an awards player and it didn't totally take off. And I wonder if it was one of those movies where if it was just Fox Searchlight. Right. It would have had a totally different identity, a totally different campaign behind it. Jonathan Groff's phenomenal in it. It's Jonathan Groff? Andrew Garfield.

Maybe Jonathan Groff on stage. But I remember really liking it quite a bit. Again, a little COVID brain though. Okay. I'll put it in the Maybe List, if people check it out, including myself. Okay, you did not like 2020's all this. directed by Baz Luhrmann, spiritually Australian,

starring Austin Butler. I didn't, but you did. I did. I mean, look, I think my expectations were like in hell. So take that with a grain of salt. You know,

like I came to it being like, why'd you skip it? Because by that point, I was like, oh, this is going to be bad. This is going to be Bohemian Rhapsody. This is going to be Rocket Man. There's no way they're making

an Elvis movie that's cool and weird. So I was just like, I'm not wasting my time. And this is before the ringer anointed me music biopic correspondent. so then I go see them now. I feel like you love Bazz. I actually don't love Bazz.

I love Romeo and Juliet. Me too. I love that movie and I like Strictly Ballroom. Yeah, okay. Strictly Ballroom's okay. I've never seen Milan Ruge. I hate Milan Rouge. My roommate loves it. Brie, she's dying,

she's dying to get me to see it. Now that I've told her I liked Elvis, she thinks I might like it because I avoided it because it's just like that's not my flavor of crisp. What about the film, Australia? No. I'm famously also racist against Australian.

Famously. Yeah. Romeo and Juliet blew my head off. I think his like, again, I think Baz Luhrmann is spiritually a carni. And that works sometimes. Like it worked with Romeo and Juliet. That movie is like so over the top in a visually, like, saturated way. Like, it's cool.

And also you're dealing with theatrical subject matter. So it works. And that's kind of the same reason I thought all of this. Like I told you, there's a couple things I don't like about all this. I don't need any fucking rap music. That's like so heavy-handed and weird. And why did, okay, we get it like he took from black music. We don't need to have Doja Cat in this, you know, layered over this film.

Tom Hanks is doing a lot. It's a bad performance. I don't really need an entire film narrated by a Dutch person with a Dutch accent. That's rough for me. It's a rough hang. He's kind of doing Goldmember. He's kind of doing Goldmember. that's Scottish.

But so that part didn't work for me. But like as a spectacle and as like the vagus Elvis that people remember, I thought it was like, okay, this was like at least visually and like it was very like sensational and campy and fun. I don't think it goes in canon. But I was surprised. You do what you want to do. No, I don't. I genuinely don't think it goes in canon.

I was just expecting it to be more Bohemian Rhapsody. I was expecting to be more Ray and boring. and I was just pleased that it wasn't boring. Okay. Then they made him look fat at the end. It was really funny. I can't believe Tom Hanks agreed to do this film and to wear that makeup and costume.

He's on a journey right now. Okay, okay. I didn't know this movie existed, and I haven't seen it. 2022 is Whitney Houston and I want to dance with somebody. It's awful. Why would they do that to her, to my girl? She deserves...

This is where I get really angry. She's trying to jump on the train of all these movies that are happening. But where's her estate? Where is the people? protecting her allowing this movie to happen i felt bad for naomiagi who's a good actress but his miscast as winnie houston and if that part doesn't work then it's not going to work um i'm just skipping that okay weird weird the al-yankovic story is good it's funny it's not a biopac

well okay yeah it's it's yes because it's a fantasia of weird al representation yeah i love it okay yeah but you're right but weird al is a the Fantasia of musical representation. That's a good point. And in that way, it's spiritually true to wear out. I'll put it on, I'm going to give it a baby. Is it Radcliffe? Yeah.

It's saying it, Radcliffe. Yeah. Also on a journey, making interesting. He is. Spinning Gold. Haven't seen this. Don't know it. Dream and Wild, that's the one you were referring to before.

The other Bill Pollard film. Yeah. Casey Affleck and Walter Guggins? Really good performances. It's coming in the aftermath of people being like, I don't know about Casey Affleck, but the performances in the film are really good. And it's about these two brothers who, who were in a group together in the 70s,

and then like what happens to them much later in life. But you don't think it's even like maybe worth it. It's just a movie worth checking out. Yeah, okay. Your other favorite film, 2003 is Maestro, directed by and starring Bradley Cooper and Carrie Mulligan. Completely beguiling.

I think a huge mistake for Bradley Cooper, but I'm fascinated by that mistake. Yeah. My favorite mistake. Cheryl Crowe. No Cheryl Crowe. Yes, Cheryl. Is it a very good Leonard Bernstein movie?

Like, not really. It captures some great moments in his life. And it does something that I wish more movies like this would do, which is worry less about the biographical beats and focus more on critical moments. But it's so elliptical that you don't even really totally understand the point. His performance is wild. You think all actors should wear prosthetic noses.

I didn't say that. You've said that in private. company. To whom? Produce the tapes. There's no tapes because it's private company. I just looked up what did I give my sterile?

Unleatherbox. I gave it four or five. Wow, that's a lot. Yeah. That's a big, you, you, it's a lot.

I was, like, blown away by the insanity of this movie. That's how I felt about all this. I get that. Okay. That's fair. That's totally fair.

I mean, a Star is born to me is like an amazing movie. I love a star is a huge fan. We've been, mocked over the years, Amanda and I for our allegiance to that movie. Why, it's a great movie? Because we were just very over the top of that when it came out in 2018.

It was a big ringer movie. A lot of us really liked it. Bill really liked it. And I'm very invested in him. He really let me down with Is This Thing On? Did you end up seeing that? No. I didn't do that movie.

It worked at all. And so I'm on a journey with Bradley. Okay. We're going to not put this anywhere. But maybe we'll put it in the check it out if you're interested. Although Sean gave it four stars. So that does feel quite high. I did not see the Millie Vanilli girl, you know it's true a movie, and I kind of wish I had.

Neither did I. Was this a TV movie? I think it is. Oh yeah, maybe. That's why I did. Damn, see, that's an amazing topic for a film. Millie Vanilli is an amazing topic for a film. No, it came out. Vertical released it. It was directed by Simon Verhoeven. who is Paul Verhoeven's grandson, which I did not know. That's intriguing.

Wow. He also wrote it. Very interesting. I guess he really loves Millie Manali. Well, we'll check it out and report back. I have a feeling even if we had watched it, it wouldn't be going in canon, but you never know. You never know. Bob Marley One Love, 24. Didn't see it?

I did. We did a whole episode about it on the big picture. You liked it? Nope. It wasn't good. Back to Black, an abomination, Barry in the Ground. put it wherever you put bohemian Rhapsody and actually put it one level below

it's heartbreaking you know it sounds like you also love Amy Winehouse I love Amy Winehouse I actually love Marisa Bella too I think she's an incredible actress this was a very bizarre choice for her to make like you said I guess it's like but it's bewitching for an actor to be like I get to play this iconic person I might win an Oscar

but like no you're not honey it was a big risk and she failed it's bad yeah it's really bad also again Amy Whitehouse is another one that like were I to make the film, I think it should be like crazy because she was a cartoonish figure. Tragic. And those things are really interesting when they align, you know? I mean, the movie is so forgiving and accepting of her father because her father is controlling part of the estate. Garbageo.

And it's just, that's just not, that's not right. She deserved better. Yeah. Accompient Unknown. We talked about it already a little bit. The Bob Dylan in 2024. I like it. I honestly think it has a place.

I like it. I'll put it in the. maybe. I think it's going to age well. It was very fun. I do think I thought this then and I still think it, I think it's five music videos in a trench coat. Interesting. I can't necessarily debate that. But it doesn't mean it's not good. And to your point

about how people want to go to the theater and hear their favorite songs, I do think Timothy Shalmay did a great job. I really enjoyed who plays Johnny Cash Garrett No not Garrett Hetland C R's Boyd Holbrook

Boyd Holbrook Who was also in One of the other films I just watched That I was very surprised He had like a bit part in it And I was like, hey, boy I think there's a lot of things to recommend about I think Edward Norton is fantastic in it

He's really good I thought Monica Barbaro Was a total revelation as Joan Baez You love her Who doesn't love her You love the scene where they were writing Total package Music in a hotel room

Yeah Speaking of Bewitching Yeah Okay. For you, I'll throw it on. Thank you. For me, I will be putting this one immediate yes. Maria? No.

Oh, I thought you're going to say Maria. 2024's Better Man. My bad. My bad. The Robbie Williams' CGI chimpanzee film, which I think was a revelation. Speaking of Revelations. It's got a lot of defenders. As you know, I thought it was just fine.

No, it's great. It's wonderful. I was all in. I was a millennium guy. You know, I believe in Robbie Williams. He had strong showing at the World Cup this year. It's really really funny I just think it's

I think it has a lot of merits it's remarkably self-aware It's very bizarre Because it is a CGI chimpanzee It's actually very emotionally Moving it's like a Jungian study Of like what the self is And using the CGI chimpanzee

As that for the distance I loved it That's a yes for me dog Okay Do you think Randy Jackson Biopic? Wouldn't watch it Okay

I didn't see Maria I did I liked it Do you think she was a bit robbed Do you think people should have talked about it more No it's a bit of a kind of an inert movie Actually remind me a little bit of maestro In that it's sort of like a series of snapshots Of a very famous person's life

In this case one of the most famous people in the world Marie Callis opera singer Is she one of the most famous people in the world? In her time she was In her time, yeah not now No not now But in her time she was extraordinarily famous Of course.

And, you know, it's very, it's late period, regal Angelina Jolie. She's wonderful. And she, it's, the music is a combination of her singing with Callas's vocals. Right. So it's not. It's kind of what Elvis did, I think, is well. Yeah, it doesn't totally cross that threshold of did the singing by herself. But she's trying.

I mean, no one can sing like Maria Callas, so it's sort of a fool's errand to try. Yeah. But it doesn't have to go in. It's a movie worth checking out, though. I don't get it on the maybe list. Yeah. Springsteen delivered me from nowhere. Despite the death threats that I received online,

I still think this movie is not good. Death threats? It was a tent about to death threats. There are people saying I didn't respect Bruce Springsteen's mental health. It's just an ex post facto movie. It's like a movie about a guy who like went to therapy and then made a movie about what he realized

after going to therapy instead of making a representation of how he was feeling at that time. And so it's complicated because like, Bruce Springsteen has a lot of tools now to better understand himself, which I'm happy for him to have had that. But it doesn't, it feels like a 2026 movie

made about 19, whatever it was, 82. And that is what it is. Yeah. It doesn't have the sensation of being in 1982 while you're watching it. I just thought it had so many like blue notes. It was just, there's so many times where we were watching it. Did we say that together too?

Or that was me and CR and Amanda. I saw it to tell your eye. Yeah. And we just kept going. and then we laughed so much and then people were blaring at us for laughing because there's not supposed to be funny So when I saw it no one had seen it

and it was like the world I think it was a world premiere at Telly Ride and you know at these screenings at film festivals there's like a lot of journalists and then all these publicists and folks who were like what did you think? What did you think? Like Oscars, Oscars?

You know like that's the first thing that you hear as soon as you walk out of the screening and there's a couple of very polite journalists were like oh yeah very good performances I could see this, this and this and I was just and I try to be polite in those circumstances I was like, like eh, like This is not going anywhere.

I'm sorry. People are not going to like this. Bruce Springsteen fans are going to be bored by this. This isn't giving you anything that they're asking for. It doesn't give you the Bohemian Rhapsody thing of just like lizard brain play the song for me. But it also is not artistically realized enough to gratify the heads, you know? It missed everything. It tried to be like, we're not like other girls.

We're doing Nebraska. But then it like didn't do Nebraska justice. And then it still had to put in, what's the, what's, is it? He was born in the USA. Born in the USA. And that's like the most exciting part of the entire movie. Jerry Malin, why God bless his heart and his brown contacts.

It was not giving. He not Bruce. And he just, he had one emotion, the entire film. Composite woman, my least favorite thing. It's a good band name.

Tough one. I like that actress. Is it Odessa Young? She's great. Yeah, but she's tried. She wasn't given a lot to do, given she's based on four random people. Okay,

we're almost at the end. Can you believe it in this time together? Let's go. Despite you guys actually talking about this movie all the time, like Florence Foster Jenkins. On one episode, but sure. I've not seen 2525's song sung blue, but you said it was surprisingly good. Yeah. My big surprise of 2025.

Really enjoyed it. And, you know, I'm a Hugh Jacklin guy. I love Hugh Jacqueline. So I loved his work. Kate Hudson was nominated for Academy Award. You know, it's about a tribute band. It's not about Neil Diamond. Right.

Does that count? I don't know. I mean, they are musicians. Sure. So yes. Okay. I wouldn't put it in the Hall of Fame, but I liked it. Okay.

I'll check it out. I love Hugh Jackman. He's very special. My king. You like the Christopher Nolan Magic movie? The prestige, of course I do. Love that movie. Terrific.

The third best Christopher Nolan film. For you? Yeah. Interesting. Third, fifth? I can't remember where I put it. I'm an Inception number one person, despite your six out of ten. Not me.

Um, 2026. This is the most recent. Mm-hmm. Michael. Mm-hmm. About Michael Jackson. Yes.

We saw it together. Directed by Antoine Bukwa, starring Jafar Jackson's nephew, Coleman Domingo, Neil Long, Miles Teller, Laura Harrier. We saw it together.

What do you think? Nope. Yeah, we talked about it at length on the Big Picture podcast. This one was hard, because there were so many good parts. Well, it's the same as most of these other films we've talked about that have come out in the last 10 years

when the Michael Jackson music is playing. Yeah, you can't help yourself. God, damn, it's really good. And also, again, to Jafar Jackson's credit, he's phenomenal at moving like him. But I think we said this on the big picture, and I would say it again, like, just make a documentary and put in all the original footage,

it's going to be better. He did that. If the best parts of it are the things that we're watching, that you're just recreating what already happened, just then show us. This movie's not for us. Like, general audiences do not want a nuanced exploration

of Michael Jackson's legacy. They also don't want just a documentary of him doing performances. They want to see recreated dramatically. Right. The most enjoyable aspects of Michael Jackson's music and career. And I understand that.

There's a reason why it's become so big. We're not the audience for that. Poor usage of CGI monkey, though. Didn't think that was great. Best part of the movie? what was the best part of the movie yeah for you um i don't know i'm not what was it it's not a movie that i've committed to memory this is really niche and random but i i enjoyed how his nose kept getting smaller oh yeah i just thought that was skin colors changing that was quite at least at least

they were glancing at that without like they didn't really talk about it they talked about one nose job but then it was very clear that his nose, his visage did keep changing as was true to what happened in real life, you know? Vassage? Visage? Oh, is that not how you say that? I famously, you know, you know the thing about me is I mispronounce a lot of words. Is that true?

Yeah, it's a leftover thing of, and people do say this in the comments, which I don't look at it anymore. I was a big reader as a kid and not a big friend have her. so I didn't often ever hear the words said out loud and my parents are foreign so they're not exactly throwing around big words at the house when I was growing up so I just only read the words

I didn't know how they sounded. You make it sound like the ringer is not predicated on people who did a lot of reading as kids and didn't have a lot of friends but that's the whole business model here. Sure, but I think the added layer of being foreign and not even having parents that, you know, like it just like

I didn't, I just never. Maybe it is Visege. I don't think so. Maybe in French. Could be. Any upcoming music biopics that you're looking forward to? Michael Part 2. That is coming.

Apparently. Yeah. Michael Too Fast to Jackson. There's another one on the horizon. I can't remember what it is. But yeah, there's more coming. I mean, I mentioned Joe Levin's one. Johnny Mitchell. That's probably the biggest one. Cameron Crow is directing that stars

Anya Teller Joy, right? Isn't that the rumor? I don't love that casting. Okay. but, well, maybe. I mean, she does have sort of like a haunted doll look the same way Johnny Mitchell had a haunted doll look. The other rumor was Merrill Street for late in life. Oh, that's cool.

And that would give you that. How could we forget? This is something you always talk about on the big picture. What's that? The upcoming Sam Mendez Beatles movies. Oye. How could we forget? Those will be our last episodes.

The show's over after that. I am kind of excited about those. I like Sam Mendes I'm excited about it in the way I'm excited about a bacon cheeseburger Where I'm like this is going to taste so good And then I'm really gonna regret it Oh interesting

Okay did you see the photos of Harris Dickinson And John Lennon Beard That were up online? Haven't seen that Wow Not sure I want to see that Okay Tough one I mean I you know

You're a huge Beatles fan Huge you know Which is the least interesting opinion of all time But I am a huge Beatles fan And They're gonna do the same thing that they did all these movies. Maybe not.

Maybe not. Sam Mendes is cool. Real coin flip director. Half the time, cool movie. The other half of the time doesn't work at all. All the way down to his Bond movies being like one good and one not good. He made one of the best ones. Yeah.

Skyfall. But he also made Spectre, which is awful. I think it probably boils down to how cool Paul McCartney wants to be. Oh, such a good call. You know, like it's so, I mean, God bless probably Ringo doesn't have a ton of say, but like I think it's really, it really boils down to like, does Paul McCartney want to be loved or to be, like, for me, I would so much rather a great piece of art was made about me than something flattering.

And ultimately at the end of my legacy, not that anyone's going to make a film about a music podcast. So hard to be perceived. Of course. But, I mean, you're on, again, I don't want to throw dirt on his gritty. grave, but like, you're on your way out, honey. You know, like, we're at the golden years. Cement your legacy with something awesome. This might be the last major piece of media made about him while he's alive.

Yeah. He's had plenty. I agree. But that might be why he's not going to break the curse. We'll see. I'm fascinated by him more than any other beetle. His, like, his drive, his motivation, his ambition, which I find so interesting because he presents as such a.

a friendly, now avuncular kind of figure. How often have I thought avuncular meant you were much like an uncle? That is, that is. Is it? Yeah, that is what it means. Really? Yeah. That's what, yeah, that's sort of the warmness that an uncle might.

Wait, I'm so happy. We can look up a vunker right now. I thought I was being dumb because it just sounded like uncle. Friendly, kind, patient, and generous. Yes, the ideal be ever a classic uncle. Yeah, that is what it means. It's like being unk. Yeah, damn, unks still got it.

What's what they say about me in pods all the time now? Do they? Yeah, because I'm just old as fuck. We're the same age, so I don't find that to be true. Yeah, but I'm very gray. You're unk, for sure. You're getting grayer, yes. I don't think I'm unc.

Deepunk. Do you think I'm unc? Auntie? No. Mother? Yes. Okay. Should we do a quick recap?

Please. Yankee doodle dandy. Is that going in? I think it has to. I like it. Yeah. I think we should be respectful of the forefathers. No doubt.

Listomania. Yes. The Buddy Holly's story from 1978. Bang on. Coal Miner's daughter. Amadeus. Sid and Nancy. La Bamba.

I'm going to do it. It's my show. Superstar, the Karen Carpenter story. The Doors. What's Love Got to Do with it? That's 10. Cooking right now. Keep going.

I think we get to 20. Selina. Yes. Topsie Turvey. 24-hour party people control I'm not there Thank you for giving me control

Yes I'm not there Nowhere boy Yes I haven't seen Noro boy But I'll go with you on that Love and Mercy Straight out of Compton Because you wanted it

Okay I think it's probably important Nico 1988 Okay Better Man That's exactly 20 We did it Joe Nice job

Was that fun for you Yeah, I've seen more of these than I've realized. Yeah, well, I mean, you've seen a lot of films. Nico 1988, I gotta see that. I'm curious. I am really curious to see what you think. I really liked it. I mean, again, I think part of it is because it subverts the form.

But I don't know any of the actors. It kind of came and went, but. If I can recommend one movie that didn't go in, it would probably be Blaze. About Blaze Fully. About Blaze Fully. Yeah. Okay. There was another one.

that you seemed really. I liked low down as well. Yeah, low down. Okay, great. Well, this was super fun. Thank you, Sean Venisey. Thank you. Please like and subscribe on YouTube.

And if you are interested in some of these films, you can see them on the Criterion channel right now. The best streaming service. That's what I say. It's hard to argue with that. That's what I always say. It's tied with me with Britbox. Okay.

Yeah. Cool. Just found a new. British detective show. What's it called? Ludwig. I'll bet it is. It has David Mitchell from Peep Show in it, and it's phenomenal.

Nice. Enjoy that. Okay, Sean, thank you so much. Thank you. Come back next week for a new episode of Bansplain, and we'll see you next week. If you liked what you heard today, subscribe for more episodes of Bandsplaine. Our guest today was Sean Fennyson. His episode was produced by Rob Sunderman and edited by John Jones, the help from Justin Sales.

Video production by Donald Mubianco. Executive producers for Bansplaine are Gina Delvette and me, Yossi Salix. Our gorgeous and catchy theme song was composed and performed by Bethanyi Kossentino and Jennifer Clayson. And graciously recorded by Carlos Dillegas in Los Angeles, California. Special thanks to our producer emeritus, producer Adelaide, aka Dylan Tupper Rupert. And also, Brit Box and in particular television program Ludwig. Come back every Thursday for a new episode of Bansplaine on Spotify or wherever you listen to or watch your podcasts.

Guy was like, he strikes up a conversation, right? And he was like, so do you work in Hollywood? And I was like, oh, I work from home mostly. And he was like, oh, I was like, oh, you meant like the industry. And he was like, yeah, I was like, oh, I'm a podcaster. And he was like, what's your podcast? And he told him, he was like, oh, the ringer. Oh, yeah, Yassie.

I've heard you. I'm like, I love the ringer. I'm a big ringer guy. And I was like, it's a home field for us. Of course you are. The County Gross concert. Bill have been a very vocal advocate of the band for about 15 years. Sam.