Bandsplain - U2 with Rob Harvilla

Episode Date: August 19, 2021

Return guest and best friend Rob Harvilla of The Ringer’s 60 Songs That Explain the 90’s takes us through the humble Irish beginnings to era-defining rock superstardom of U2. Follow Rob Harvilla at @harvilla on Twitter and listen to his The Ringer podcast, 60 Songs That Explain the 90s, only on Spotify. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's with this band anyway? I don't get it. Can you please explain? Wait, like Bansplain? Unos Dose, Trace Cotorcee, and welcome to Bandsplain. I am your host, Yossi Salek. This is a show where we invite experts on to explain cult bands and iconic artists to me and to you. Today's episode is about you two. If you've never heard you too, I suppose you didn't.

not have an iPhone in 2014. Here's what you two sounds like. My guest today is the man, the myth, the legend, the ringer music critic, the host of 60 songs that made the 90s, a repeat bands played in guest, and my real life best friend, Rob Harvilla. Welcome to the show, Rob. All of those things are true. It is a pleasure to be back.

Yeah. Thank you for having me back. You took off your Bono glasses. I did. I just wanted to get in the vibe. I know this is an audio only show, but for those of you be listening, I did have a red tinted lensed glasses on just to like get myself in the mood in the headspace of Bono. What's it like in the headspace of Bono? What's going on over there? What are you feeling? Do you feel messianic? I feel rich. Rob, you know what I was thinking when I was getting ready for this episode? manically trying to listen to all 15, I think 15, 14, you two albums.

It depends on how you count, yeah. Right. Well, we'll get to it, but you seem to think we're going to skip over the album under the moniker, the passengers that they did with Brian Nina, but we're not going to do. Anyways, I was thinking, like, I think most bands, like, if you ask someone, hey, do you like this band? The answer is, like, pretty clear cut, right? It's like, yes or no.

But I think the answer with U2 has gotten a little complicated, right? I don't know. What do you think? I think they're so huge that they're one of these bands where if you've never listened to U2 by choice for one second of your life, if you've never opted in to the U2 experience, you are still intimately familiar with between 10 and 20 U2 songs. Like you know all the words. Yeah. If you're above a certain age, like your children, I don't know who you're. you to it. Exactly. Yes. If you, you know, I having been born at pretty much the same time as you two,

you know, having grown up alongside of you two, I grew up just feeling like they were like a force of nature. Like Bono is like a head of state, right? Like they were a large European country. They had that much power and that much landmass and just they were just ubiquitous. They were everywhere. You heard them everywhere. You saw them everywhere. And they were just sort of a fact of your life. whether you had invited them into your life or not. And that would be taken to some absurd extremes as the decades rolled on. But it is just a band that you know even if you don't want to know them. Totally.

But it's like even like bands like, okay, like the Rolling Stones. The Rolling Stones have put out a lot of albums, right? And like no disrespect to the gods. But like I don't think anyone's like, you know, putting the last three Rolling Stones albums at the top of their list. But I don't think if you ask someone, do you like the Rolling Stones, they would feel the need to qualify their answer. Like the early stuff.

Yeah. You know, like, you two is kind of one of those bands. Like you feel, and I get into this a lot because I'll die on the hill of U2 fandom, and I do often and people are very confused by this. But like, and we're going to start to get into it right away. But like, you two has made some of the most incredible albums of my lifetime. Yeah, and it's they haven't made one of those recently, and they're not immune to like the nostalgia trip, right? Like the last time I saw them live was the Joshua Tree tour, like them playing their most famous, most successful album in full.

But they've also made, they keep making records and keep like fashioning them as very personal and very intense statements. Like they are determined to be a present tense band, even though they are also a band that can tour. long after we're all dead, like playing, you know, the 20 to 40 songs that everyone knows, even if you don't know you too. I just bump that number up to 40. But, like, that's how many U2 songs are famous. They sort of straddle this line where they are like the most famous real-time rock band of my lifetime and the most longest lasting one.

Like, the bass player for Zizi Top died, you know, yesterday. And everyone was saying that lineup had been together. I think for like actually 50 years. Like it was if not 1970 than the early 70s. Like it is almost unheard of for the same three guys to be in a band together for half a century. And you two is not quite to this point, but it's been the same four guys since like 1978. You know, like as long as I've been alive, it's been these four guys as like de facto the biggest arena rock band in the world. And they rest on those laurels plenty.

they also are determined to keep making albums, like, long past the point where, like, albums don't matter, let alone albums by a 40-year-old classic rock band. But again, classic theme of this show, it's like, whomst am I to stand in their way? Like, you know, I'll probably be making bands playing long past when anyone fucking cares about it and anyone's paying for it. I'll just be broadcasting live from my, you know, little room and my little microphone into the ether. I'll be listening as your best friend. Even if you just call me up and just relay the episode into the phone.

Bansplain live. Exactly. One-on-one. Live streamed to one person. That's the future. It's the future the liberals want. Okay. I don't know, Rob, how much you dove deep into the formation of you two.

Did you get into this? Because I did get a little bit into this. Why don't you tell me what you know? Okay. Because I didn't realize they were like literal baby teenagers when they formed this band. Students in high, well, I think it was high school. It sounds like it was a Catholic high school because it's, I think Ireland, maybe every high school is a Catholic high school. Just kidding. And there was a little bulletin board and they, Adam Clayton slapped a little notice saying he's looking for band members. And the original band was six people. It was Bono the Edge, the Edge's older brother, whose name is Dick with no seat, D. I.K. Evans. Adam Clayman, Clayton. And then two other guys, Ivan McCormick and Peter Martin, who are probably sad that they didn't stay on YouTube. Yeah, it's not quite a Pete Best situation. Like, they were out long before this started happening. But yeah, that's got to suck. That that's your Wikipedia entry,

if you have one at all. Yeah, you were like, you were in YouTube for two seconds. Apparently, Larry Mullen was trying to make like the Larry Mullen. band. But then when Bono came in, he kind of, he kind of like realized that he was like, oh, no, this is the Bono band. Yeah. And then just tale as old as time, they liked punk music and they tried to play punk music because they probably couldn't play their instruments. And that's how every band starts. Yes. Like their earliest stuff, like they put out an EP, right? And it's, all the songs have the word boy in the title or most of them do. And like, it sounds like the buzzcocks.

There's a place I go It takes me far away Like I would never say that anything You two ever did From this point forward was punk But like they sound like a pop punk band You know Like they sound like

They're trying to sound like joy division Early on And that is not their path Totally You know They're teenagers In Ireland In the late 70s

That determines a lot Of how they sound And how they want to sound And the tension between How they sound and how they want to sound is what creates, you know, this monolith. Totally. And we can clip, I think there's a song called, like, Another Day.

That was one of their, like, really early songs. Most of their early music only came out in Ireland. It was Ireland only releases. Yes. But then, magic struck. Rob, they played a... They were very popular in Ireland, actually. Even with this kind of music.

Because, you know, they sold out their little EPs that sound like the bus. Cox. And then I guess they played a big old show in Dublin, like a very huge venue for them. And A&R from Island was there. And the rest is history. The rest is history. Soon they're working with your good friend Steve Lillywhite, Dave Matthews band. David Matthews Band. Cohort, Steve Lily White. And the rest is history. I liked that little tidbit when they're working with Steve Lily White to make boy. Like the stuff that he had worked on before that was kind of funny to me. It was like Johnny Thunders and Susie and the Banshees and XTC. Right, right.

But I think he did a good job. Boy is a great album, no? Yeah, it's a great album. Like, I like, it's not broken glass, but it's just like banging on bottles and cans and stuff. Like, there's a very unsettled quality. Like, again, like, they're still trying to sound like Joy Division, and that's not going to happen for very much longer.

But it just, you two are one of these bands. Like, you know, when you see, like, a picture of Willie Nelson when he was young and your brain just rejects the idea that Willie Nelson was ever young. It's not that you two are always old to me, but it's very hard for me to listen to these early records and think, oh, these are teenagers who are substantially younger than I am right now. They just seem to come fully formed to me as like monolithic,

you know, United Nations member, like mega rock band, you two. Like they were just huge from the beginning. And to try and imagine them as teenagers, as children, And as like a band trying to make it that is not guaranteed to make it, it just, it doesn't compute for me, like that they didn't start out, you know, on the highest, the broadest, the hugest possible stage. You know what I'm saying? I'm glad you said this.

I mean, again, we weren't around because we're not that old producer Dylan. But the first song on this album is like, again, no business being this good for a first track on a first album, and I will follow. Like that song to this day, I would say is one of their best songs. It's fucking incredible. It is. Yeah. It's a calling card as like a statement of purpose.

It's fantastic. And it's immediately you get like the edge in Bono. Like the entire band is just the riff and the voice, you know? And it's very funny that Larry Mullen Jr. thought he was making the Larry Mullen band because, you know, the bass and the drums on these early records is a little bit like flashier and like nervy. and like nervier and unsettled and like more of a post-punk thing and they're drawing more attention to themselves.

There's just a rar quality to it. Adam and Larry sort of lock in to like just the rhythm section and they're just back there biting their time and like they're not bored but they're just steady and they're not the focal point. You know, from track one, album one,

the focal point is the guitar and the vocals and just like just the double rainbow that Bono and the Edge create together. It really is amazing. And yeah, these are not the ass kicking years, particularly these first couple albums. But like, I will follow as track one, album one is incredible. Absolutely.

Let's hear it. What do you think? I think we should hear it. All right. This is I Will Follow off boy. You are listening to a music and talk episode where full songs and talk segments live together in gorgeous harmony only on Spotify. Guess what? You can also create your.

own music and talk show for free with Anchor, Spotify's podcasting platform. Get started at anchor.fm slash music and talk. That's anchor.fm slash music and talk. That was I will follow. This is the first and not the last time that I will be tricked into thinking I knew what a song was about by YouTube. This song actually really sadly is about Bono's mother's death. She died when he was only 14. And like through that lens, it's just like an even more, I don't know. It makes a song better somehow. I don't know. This kind of song was written from like grief.

Right. It's from the very beginning from right here. Like you two are writing about the big themes, right? And Bono's mother, the death of Bono's mother is a huge theme. Like some of my favorite songs. And like you, like some, it took me a long time to realize what they were about and that they were about her or at least in part. You know, the fact of them being teenagers.

in Ireland in the late 70s makes them inherently political. You know, they're writing songs about world events from the onset. And also they're writing about God. They're writing about both organized religion, you know, the pros and cons of organized religion, but also about just capital G God all the time. Like, do you go into every YouTube song just thinking it's about God? I do now. I mean, when I was like growing up listening and stuff, I was like,

God, gorgeous love songs beautiful. I love these love songs. Like, little did I know they were love songs about God. Songs about God. Yeah, it's just, from the beginning, they're working with the big themes. Again, like, they're imagining themselves tackling the big issues on the biggest possible stage

with like the biggest possible sound. Totally. I mean, Bono's 19 years old here. Right. You know, which is like kind of mind-blowing. Yeah. And what a gorgeous voice. This song does get yours.

radio play, which was a big deal. We're not going to play it. We can clip it, but I just want to know why you picked it. I'm going to screw up the pronunciation of it. It is apparently in Irish Gaelic. It's an cat dub. That's not the way it's pronounced, but it's a black cat in Irish Gaelic. And it's, this is like a post-punk song.

Like the baseline, Adam Clayton's baseline is like, I'm trying to be in joy division. It's sort of gothy and then it explodes into this major key chorus. Apparently it's about Bono having sex. Bono having like a brief relationship with a woman while he was in. Outside of marriage? No, I believe that he had separated from his girlfriend's soon to be wife, still wife. This is like a brief dalliance in like, you know, an off again portion of his real relationship, his lasting relationship. I was just struck by how young they sound and how hard they're trying to sound like somebody else.

Right. You know, but by the end of the song, they're sounding like themselves. Like, this happens so fast. Like, every band, every major rock band comes into existence, like, very deliberately aping someone else. And whether you ever hear those songs or not, like, you're trying, you're imitating somebody at first. And then you grow into your own sound.

And that can take 10 years or that can take 10 minutes. And here, with this song and with boy, the album as a whole, it feels like it happens in real time in front of you. Like whoever they thought they were trying to be, they become what they actually are and become what they will be, you know, for the next 40 years. Whether they know it or not, whether they stumble into it or whether it's deliberate, they go from trying to ape, you know, post-punk, goth, whatever, to being just you two, you know, in the largest possible capital letters. Totally. It's interesting that you say that. And also it's interesting that somehow you talk like you write, which is really annoying for me, a person who is.

stupid. Okay. Literally just grasping at words as I go. It's early to talk about it, but it's going to come up a bunch. Like, you two is not joking. You two is not contrived. Funny? I don't, as much as things feel, like later on the line might feel overwrought and

contrived, they're actually not. This band is just really, they mean it. Right. From the beginning. Like, whatever they're doing, they mean it. To your point, whether or not they knew what they were trying to do or not, it didn't really matter, right? It was just, this is who they are and they're not going to try to be something else. Exactly.

They even do irony with like total sincerity. Like, so overwhelming sincerity that it's like hard to parse if you're not them. Like they can't be serious. Like you keep thinking as the years as the decades go on. But like they are. They always are. They always are. The song Twilight slaps a bit.

I'm not going to say it doesn't. There's some other really good songs on here. Steve Lillywhite did something really cool, which is he made Larry Mullen play drums in the stairwell outside of the... Yes, yes. Yeah, outside of the studio. And you can hear that, right? You can.

They do sound really cool and, like, roomy and I don't know. A little punk, right? Little punk, yeah. This is going to get beaten out of them pretty fast. Like this sort of punk rawness, since I sort of cling to like the echoes of it that I hear over the years. But like, yes, again, yeah, this is this is an album of young people just trying things. And like it's so successful that it sort of blots out like the trying. You just believe that they came into this world already multi-millionaire like colossuses, you know, but they didn't.

But they sound like they did. And they, you know, that's what they became almost immediately. Yeah, and this album did well. It got decent reviews. No one was like over the moon about it, but except for a melody maker, they had a vested interest. Robert Crisgow gave it a C-plus. Did he now?

Well, that sounds about right. Over time, Robert Crisgow has proved to begrudgingly abide you to and like give them their due respect, but it doesn't seem like he wants to. No, yeah, that sounds about right. Grudging respect is the best, I think, a band of this intensity is going to get out of. This is one of those things again where I'm like, what a different time. But they had to make four albums in four years. Right.

And they were provided $50,000 to choose so. In 1979 money or whatever. But still, yeah, that's not a lot of money. Yeah. I'm not considering their YouTube. But they make another album one year later called October. also produced by Lily White. I like Boy better than I like October.

How do you feel? I think that's universally held. I don't think this is a bad album. I don't think this is a hated album by any means. But this is the early U2 record with no massive U2 songs on it. Like Gloria, you know, if you're at all a U2 fan, there's plenty of what you regard as hits on this record.

But there is not like a bulletproof, classic rock giant song on this record as there will be on like the next six to eight to ten YouTube records going forward. Like what's like I was saying about the biggest possible themes. Like this is a super religious spiritual album. Like it's not as simple, you know, they weren't all raised Irish Catholic. Like it gets very complicated very fast. But coming out of Ireland, they are super interested in and sort of fighting spirituality

from the beginning. Like they've talked about like people came to them saying like, you can't be Christian and be in a band at the same time. And like they struggled, or at least now they say they struggled with whether to still be in the band. Like, can we reconcile loving God with being in like a de facto godless rock band? Like, they're struggling with God and with spirituality and with organized religion, like on their second album. Right. And like one of the songs on it that strikes me the most is tomorrow, which is another song about Bono's mother.

It's a song about. Bono attending his mother's funeral. It's a very, very heavy and sort of anguished album that still has like plenty of this sort of joy and propulsion of like classic YouTube. But there's no hit songs and you could just feel like the density of it at all times. Totally. I think that's why like it's an important album to talk about. Right.

I guess not all of them, but Bono the Edge and Larry were in a church called the Shalom Fellows. Right. Like a non-denominational thing. Yeah. I couldn't get much information on it, but there were some Yelp reviews that were really funny. There are Yelp reviews. Oh, yeah. You can feel God here.

And I'm like, this is amazing. We've truly exited the light of God all of us as a society. But I guess, like during the touring, like you were saying, like the people that came to them were people from this fellowship. And they were like, you can't be in a band because you have to be good Christians. This really fucked them up. But this really made me laugh. Bono, I guess, brought this up to their manager. They ended up having the same manager all the way to almost now.

I think he retired like five years ago or something. Paul McGinnis. Paul McGinnis, of course, yeah. Yeah. And Paul McGinnis was like, oh, Jesus told you to do this. Did he? And then I guess he pointed out to Bono that he had made contractual commitments on U2's behalf.

And God does not believe in breaking contracts. God, yes. Keep your promises. Yeah, which is really funny. That's a rock band man. manager move right there. Holding the cricket bat, you know, smashing the TV with a cricket bat, as you explain to Bono that Jesus needs you to make these four albums in four years. And so that's what they did. Jesus is not going to break his word. And so this album, I think, sets up, like you're saying,

like the central conflict of U2's songwriting for years to come, which is like, what is it to live a spiritual life. Like how can you be walking in the light of God while also being part of the world, you know? Right. Another fun tid about this album was that when they were on tour for boy, Bono lost a briefcase. Bono had a briefcase on tour. 20 years old on tour, rock star stuff. Carrying a briefcase full of his lyrics. And I guess someone stole it or lost it. But another extra special tid on top of that tid is that that briefcase was recovered in 2004.

Right. It was either, yeah, it was several decades later. Right. Right. Which is insane. Anyways, all that to say, I just wanted to bring up the fat that Bono carried. Bano had a briefcase handcuffed to his wrist, you know, with lyrics about God and his

mom in it, you know, and someone's like, I need to get that. And they did for 20 years. I mean, tomorrow is both about mom and God. Tomorrow has lyrics that are like open up to the Lamb of God. Right. Right. Right. So should we hear tomorrow? I mean, Gloria is really good too, but you're in charge here.

You're driving the bus. I was sort of torn here because obviously we do the most obvious YouTube songs, but I do think tomorrow may be important just to show you where their heads are at and where they never really leave this headspace. Bono doesn't, at least.

And so I think tomorrow may be the lasting documents on this record. So why don't we do tomorrow? All right. Bust it tomorrow. That was tomorrow. Awesome use of Irish bagpipes. Rob corrected me. I said normal bagpipes.

And he said, actually, I'll have you know. Those are Irish. This mansplaining Irish folk instruments to people. That's my job. Producer Dylan on the side, just letting me know that this takes her back to her parents' new age non-denominational church. Oh, dear. And she does not like that. I didn't think she would.

Yeah. I actually really love that song. I think it's not a good representation of what you do is capable. love. I feel like we're actually trying to convince producer Dylan right now. I don't think that's going to happen, to be totally honest. You know her better and I do, but yeah. Yeah, I don't think so either because her taste is bad. It really showcases Bono's incredible voice. Right. I like these early albums because while it's unmistakably Bono, it's this like very tender, young version of Bono singing, and I love that version of his voice. You can hear the

mullet, right? Oh, God, they had the best hair back then. Probably the single best thing about October the album is the cover, is just the majestic plumes. The volume of the hair. Hair turned up to 11 on the cover of October. I don't think people who know you two in the last like two decades, if we're only shown that, they would be like, who are these people? Is that a flock of seagulls?

Like, right? Yes. Totally. Anyways, hair or no hair. October. Okay, the god, John Perales, love this. Did he? Oh, good.

No, he didn't love this. I just love what he said for Rolling Stone. It's impossible to take you two as seriously as they take themselves. True. Fact check. True. And you know what's funny? He says, I want to usher him aside and wish him,

he's talking about Bono, a speedy recovery from adolescence. Little does you know that this is not tethered to age. Right. Yes. This is permanent. That's funny. The God.

I will say, I think, and I wonder, while we talk about this, I'm interested, I don't know what the, like, emotional tenor of the 70s was. You know how, like, the 90s is largely known for being ironic, right? Like, that was the vibe. Like, we don't take things seriously. We're slackers. Everything's a joke, sarcasm, whatever. The 80s, obviously, were very earnest.

What was the vibe of the 70s? Sort of gritty and dark and hedonistic, you know, and punk reacts to that. Would you say godless? More godless than usual. I think you two are in 80s bands from the jump. Even the pre-80s. U-2 material. Maybe that's part of

what's temporally confusing to me about them when I hear them now. It's like they always sound like colossal Reagan era Heartlands rock

U-2. I don't think there's much of whatever you define the 70s you know, other than like their interest in Susie and the Banchees,

Joy Division, whatever, other than a brief attempt to sound post-punk, they are destined to be like the rock band

of the 80s and they sound like it, you know, even in 1979. So whatever the 70s sound like is not what you two are going to sound like and not what they sound like for long at all. No, totally. But I think even what I'm getting at is like they are a reaction to the 70s. I think like, and maybe not them themselves, but the open embrace of YouTube. Because like they became extremely popular throughout these records.

we're not quite there yet, but like it's picking up steam. And I think while critics might have, you know, been side-eyeing the sincerity, rightfully, yes. It didn't matter because people weren't, fans weren't, you know, like they were, I can't remember when they start playing arenas. It might have been on war. Does that sound? It's either war or the next one.

But yeah, right here in the early 80s. Yeah. And then sort of live aid is another jump, but they were already at the arena level, I think, at live aid. At live aid, for sure. So war comes out February of 83. Yeah. Once again, your friend in mind, Steve Lillywhite, is the producer. Last time, but yeah.

War is a really good album. It is. War is an album where would you say we've moved not away from religion to politics, but to maybe politics? politics through a religious lens? I think that's a good way of putting it. I think two of the most famous political U2 songs hits on war immediately in Sunday, Bloody Sunday and New Year's Day. Like this is where the ass kicking starts in earnest.

Like I will follow as a fantastic song. Like that's a greatest hits candidate. But like war is where this is the monsters of rock years and like it never stops or it doesn't stop for decades from this point forward. And those are their two of their biggest songs and two of their most political songs. And it is immediately incredible that those two songs are the same songs. Like Sunday Bloody Sunday, you know, a song about a massacre in Northern Ireland in 1972 being a global, you know, highlight of every YouTube concert they ever play smash

for four decades in counting. A song with this topic and this level of sincerity and darkness, like also working as like a fist pumping arena rock anthem. Like that's just a shocking and sort of singular to you two thing. Totally. I think like it's really, this album is like, like we were saying, like they're slowly starting to form like who they're going to be forever. And like this is the missing piece of the puzzle,

which is politically motivated or politically is not the right word, activism motivated. Citizens of the world, right. It's not, they're not policy positions. They just, they want to be global power players and citizens of the world and like talk about the big issues

and like bring everybody together. Like this, the United Nations, like they're a member of the United Nations from this point forward. Yeah. I love New Year's Day. Absolutely. Like the baseline,

You know, like, the bass and drums are never like the focal point, but that doesn't mean that they're not often fantastic. Like, this is the start of like, you know, Rolling Stone used to do like year-end poles, like best bassist, best drummer. And Larry Mullen Jr. and Adam Clayton would win or be high up in those polls and it would drive people crazy. It's like they're not in rush, right? Like, they're not flashy.

You know, that's not who you're trying to sound like when you're farting around a guitar center or whatever. But like they, as a rhythm section, as a foundation. to support both the edges guitar playing and Bono's like Megalomania. Like they're essential at all times. A New Year's Day is like just a great song

for the rhythm section like not drawing a ton of attention to itself but still being essential and still being the best part of the song even if you don't ever really focus on it specifically. Yeah, it doesn't need to draw attention to itself to be good people. And to your point, like the last song on war

is like a psalm set to music. I think the song is just called 40, and it's the 40th Psalm set to music. And that's also a concert staple. I don't know if there's another rock band who has a song whose lyrics are just from the Bible, literally, that is also a four decades long concert staple where everyone sings along to words in the Bible.

Like there is just nobody else, whoever would even think to attempt that. But you two just starts to does it. Not the first time that you two does this and definitely not the last time that Bible is lifted for some lyrics and it is under fair use for those of you wondering.

I think we should hear New Year's Day which I will have you know did have its origins as a love song from Bono for his wife. Really? But then was reshaped and inspired by the Polish Solidarity. How do you reach that?

How do you explain to your wife? It's like, baby. I'm sorry. I was writing you a song, but then I was very distracted by the Polish Solidarity Movement. And here we are. Sorry, before we play it, just need to point out,

Bono has been married forever. This is, again, in the most anti-rock star fashion, Bono has been married to the same woman since, like, day one of U-2's putting out albums, which is pretty impressive. It's true. This is New Year's Day.

That was New Year's Day. Man, really hits. It does. It holds up. I really love when he says, I will begin again. It really just gets me right in the gut. With the backing vocals, you know, it's in a very subtle way, the backing vocals from the edge or whoever or just Bono doubled,

whatever it is. The backing vocals are always subtle, but. essential to me. Again, that is a song that's like, obviously an 80s song. Right. You're not confused that it's an 80s song. But I think, like, we were, producer Dylan and I kind of came up with a list of, like, other stuff that was like trendy at this time. And it's like, like, 83.

Like you said, it's like, Depeche Mode. New Order, soft cell. Pet Shop Boys. Great. Like, listen, I will, I will, I will. bang tainted love all around the house. West End Girls' Babe. Are you kidding?

Great songs. It's a sin. Absolutely. And I like New Order better than Joy Division, and you can come fight me later on this podcast. But wildly different sounding and vibe of music. And what's coming in 1984, 1984 is always a year that looms large in my head, in my critic brain. Because of that. because of born in the USA and purple rain.

Are those your Nirvana Neverminds, like how I orient my entire understanding of music around Nirvana Nevermind, is yours born in the USA? For the 80s, yes. That's sort of the before and after point. And that's sort of the grandeur and the size of those records.

That's what you two reaches for or hits at the same time. You know, that's New Year's Day, you know, in 1983, and then those two records in 1984, along with the unforgettable fire. And, you know, now you two have jumped up to this huge heartland rock level, you know, at the exact time as two of the other biggest artists of the 80s. That's interesting. War, war did really well. And then, like you're saying, I think they're definitely an ambitious band, right? So they were like, oh, we'll do better than war.

And then they did. Yeah, they really did. The unforgettable fire. This is like a, this is a fan favorite, right? Like I think looking even back in the history, I think like mega fans really love this album. I think that's true. You know, it's got one or two of the biggest U2 songs ever. I mean, pride in the name of love, you know, it's if you know, if you name one U2 song,

might be that one. It might be the quintess. I think so. I mean, it's having, you know, I've been to whatever, like eight to ten YouTube concerts in my life. And I feel like pride was the focal point. Right. It's like the biggest, most ecstatic moment.

You know, it's a song that is just straight up about Martin Luther King, Jr., about Martin Luther King Jr.'s assassination. And it just doesn't shy away from that. And Jesus. There's no such thing as a YouTube song. that isn't maybe also about Jesus. Exactly. But still, again, it also works as this ungodly huge, you know,

fist pumping arena moment. As you said, I think you two have made some of the greatest albums, you know, classic rock, arena rock, however you wanted to find them albums of our lifetime, you know. And if you want to wait until the next album to start that counter, you can. But I think the unforgettable fire can qualify, you know, if you get in to the whole. whole of it. I, you know, bad the song. That is so good. It's one of, it might be my single

favorite U-2 song, you know, and also sort of a quintessential live track. And like at Live Aid, you know, that's where they jumped up several tiers of rock stardom, you know, in one bound, like with Bad very specifically. Let's not get ahead of ourselves because I am going to make us play two songs off this album. Let's hear Pride in the Name of Love so everyone remembers what we're talking about. This is Pride, parentheses, in the name of love. That was Pride in the name of love. You might not know it from that song, but this album is the first collaboration between you two and Brian Eno. Brian Eno and Daniel Lanwaugh. Is that he pronounced it? Nicely done. Lanois produced this album. Weird choice, no?

Maybe it seemed like a weird choice at the time, but I think it was the right choice. Totally. They just needed as much space as humanly, just ambient space as humanly possible. And I think that's what Brian Eno delivers you is just this feeling of ungodly hugeness. Totally.

You know, that they, and they fill the space, like basically no other rock band before or after them can fill the space. You can say, like, I think a lot of things about YouTube, but you can't say they're not self-aware to a certain extent. Like, I think

whether or not their self-awareness exists in the same reality as other people's is up for debate, but like, you know, I think they made really active choices around how they wanted to sound all the way. Like, they made it a point. They were like, we don't want to be some big, like,

sloganeering arena rock band. I think that's in a direct quote from Bono. And so they went with Brian Eno. And it's also a testament to how successful they were at this time that Island let them. You have to think Island Records was like Brian Eno, you say? I don't know. But they had power, you know? They knew how they wanted to sound and how they wanted to look.

Yes, they definitely. I think this is the album where you can sense that they want to be like the most American rock band in global history. They're finally just going to go for it And they're just they're going to be more American Than any American rock band ever That changes later But not for another couple of albums Yeah not for their glory years

Not for their glorious years Yeah The Edge said this quote about working with Brian Eno Which I think was extremely funny I think he was intimidated by the lack of irony And what we were doing He'd come from talking heads the Rhode Island School of Design, living in New York.

And here was this Irish band hitting everything full on, completely earnest, hearts on sleeves, no irony at all. This is not Roxy Music, yeah. No. It's kind of funny. Why don't we hear bad? Because I have to hear it because it's amazing, gorgeous, wonderful, beautiful song. This is bad. That was bad.

That song is about heroin addiction. Of course it is. Why wouldn't it be? Not for the last time. This is one of those, like a brand of U2 song that we haven't gotten to yet, which is Bono imagines what it's like to be someone else less fortunate than himself. No? Like, Bono was not a heroin addict, as far as I know. I don't even think he even went near this stuff.

Highly productive if he was. Yeah, I don't think so. But, you know, this is a song sort of imagining the plight of a, um, a. heroin-addicted friend. Maybe they had a person that they were singing this too. And the difficulty to shake that off. It's a gorgeous song. I would encourage you to watch

you can find on YouTube, U-2 at Live Aid in 1985. There are a handful of live career-making YouTube performances that maybe we'll talk about and this is one of them. Because Bad is an incredible song but also because it highlights

an important part of the YouTube dynamic, which is like the other guys in YouTube getting very frustrated with Bono and Bono's megalomania because like the lore around this song is Bono goes out into the crowd and slow dances with a fan and he has misjudged how long

it's going to take him to do that and so the band has to vamp the song for several minutes and they go over their allotted time and so they can't play pride in the name of love which is their big hit and like they walk off stage thinking that they blew it

you know, that they, but they didn't. You know, they realized, you know, there was, Twitter was not available in 1985, just if you weren't aware. But like, it takes them probably several weeks to realize that they're like held up as a highlight of Live Aid as a whole. But at the time, the thought amid the band is like that Bono blew it and blew our big shot by like showboating

through our second biggest song costing us the chance you even play our biggest song. Well, you know, you know, know who else walked into the crowd to touch the people, Jesus Christ. You know, people probably don't remember this and I barely remember it. I think it's a testament to how big fucking of a deal live aid was that I was three when this happened, but it didn't matter because I knew about it my whole childhood because like, I think live videos from it became music videos that were played for years after. Yeah. But live aid was a big benefit for the famine in Ethiopia

that like every mass... Did Bob Geldof organize this? Yes, he did. Yeah. Bob Geldof, who I don't even remember what is Boomtown Rats. Is that right? That's correct.

I don't like Mondays. Tell me what. I don't like Mondays. Tell me what. His legacy, not Boomtown Rats, but simply planning, I think, benefit concerts and that one, we are the world, horrifying, just ungodly grouping of people

singing that just uncanny valley moment. Has not held up as a piece of art. No. But that's Bob Geldof's legacy. Also, Evan Dando from the Lemonheads famously hated him, which is really funny because he didn't hate anyone. He just hated Bob Gildov. Like personally?

Or just as a public figure? Just brought it up in interviews a bunch. I don't know. I think Bob Geldorf represented everything that Dando wasn't, right? I see. I'm glad that you brought the Lemonheads into this. I'm going to bring the lemon heads everywhere. I go.

We haven't even brought in the red hot jelly peppers. Yeah, we'll get there somehow. We'll get there. Yeah. So Live Aid makes them huge stars. Like, they were already playing arenas. They were a big deal. But, like, now, because, you know, again, there was no Twitter.

There was no Netflix. You know, if something was on, if LiveAid was on live, the word is in it, it's live. People were glued to their TVs to watch Queen and, you know, a bunch of other amazing artists played Black Sabbath, I think, played. Duran Duran. Kind of a crazy... Anyways, crazy time. So, this is, like, not that important of a thing in their career, but I just need to use it as a door to open to tell a little story, which is that in 1986,

Bono collaborates with the Irish Celtic folk group Klanad. Do you know about Klanad? I can't say that I do. Okay, let me tell you about Klanad. Klanad is... There were a massive musical group in Ireland, maybe the UK as a whole, definitely in Ireland. Maybe much like tragically hip is like only famous in Canada. And this was Enya's family band.

Like her family formed this band. And she was part of it until when she left, apparently they stopped speaking to her. And now I believe that Bono and Enya are neighbors in their castle. You told me this. I am having trouble. You're not in your mind. Me too. As you said, and I was struggling with this, like, what does it mean for two people

rich and famous to be neighbors? It's not like, you know, they can lean out their windows and talk to one another. Like, does that mean their castles are like 10 miles of moats apart? Or does that mean, like, you know, they can hang out in one another's backyards? Like, yeah, what does it mean? The crazier part of that story that I heard was that they ran into each other at the local coffee shop. What does that even mean?

So you left your castle to just go to the Starbucks? There's not a staff inside your castle to prepare you a coffee. You went to just go pick up a cup of Joe. Bono handing the half and half container to Enya. This collaboration was called In a Lifetime. In case anyone was accusing them of trying to be too American, Bono did make a little play at being like, don't worry, I'm Irish.

You never do quite forget that he is Irish, but you also never forget that he is also Bono. Dysinctly American. And he's Bono, yes, exactly. It took us a long time to get here, but why is he called Bono? Do you have any idea? I think both the Bono and the Edge are like childhood nicknames. Like they were both apparently part of a quote surrealist street gang.

Okay. Does that mean it's an imaginative? I don't know what surrealist means in that context. But they're both like the edge is like his something about the shape of his head. You know, and Bono, I think Bono in Latin means the good voice. Yeah, that's right. Bono Vox means good voice. I can't believe that they didn't just call him melonhead.

They went to the edge. Thank God. What if it was like, oh, you two's here. Bono, Melonhead. Adam Clayton. Ladies and gentlemen, Mellonhead. Welcome to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Yes. Well, I'm glad we solved that. Okay. You know

what's happening now. Now we're fucking cooking with gas. That was the fourth album and the four album Island deal. Obviously, they were re-signed for some undisclosed large sum of money. Yes. And three years later

after the Unforgettable Fire, we get... 87. The Joshua Tree. I think you do whisper that album title. Don't you think? There are certain albums, like, even as a professional quote-unquote rock critics, like, you don't talk about albums like this.

Like, what is there, what is there to say? Like, you just, they're just facts of life. You know, they just are. You know, they don't need to be discussed or, you know, other things compared to them. Like, they just, it's the Joshua tree. It's just this massive, really fantastic, like, world historical. rock record. I am not a professional rock critic, but I'm glad that I got one part of that right. The Joshua Tree. Do you think this is held as the best U-2 album, critically rock speaking, because you're the critical rock person?

I think it's either this one or the next one. I think it's either this one or Octum Baby, and I think it's, I think it is the Joshua Tree. Yeah. The only number one songs in America I, you two has ever had, are on the Joshua Tree. And so by some commercial, you know, chart statistical point of view, this is their biggest record. This is, of course, the record that they did a whole tour to celebrate. You know, this is the album cover that's most iconic. I've remade it. Have you remade it?

I've remade it, meaning. Like you've never gone to Joshua Tree with your friends. and just like, been like, okay, you stand here. No, do you have, do you have, like, a photo of yourself? I do. Like, looking wistfully. I would like you to do that. There's a Bloom County.

I don't know if it's like a collection of Bloom County strips, and they do that with like opus and build a cat and everything. I don't know if this reference is getting to you at all. It's never mind. No. Forget it. And, you know, producer Dylan literally just heard, like, the Charlie Brown teacher just now. Oh, my God.

All right. Never mind. I think this is the one. It's hard. Like, Paralus, it's so funny that by even their second record, Paralice, is like, I don't know whether they take this seriously. I feel like that has been the line on you two the entire time. You know, there are some records that get a great deal of critical attention.

Like Rolling Stone went wild for Songs of Innocence many decades after this. But I, I've never really gotten a firm grip on where you two stand critically. And I think that they are, in the purest sense, like critic proof. Yeah, totally. Like, it really doesn't matter. And they're just, they are so far above any sort of ranking conversation. Like 21 pilots. The only two bands in this sphere are you two and Columbus's own 21 pilots.

Honestly, shout out Karen Gans, who literally stands 21 pilots. She does. To answer your question, I think if there is any consensus high point critically or otherwise, is the Joshua tree. Yeah, I don't think it's Octune Baby only because this country and who runs rock criticism, especially at this time was white men who love Bruce Springsteen. And what they're going to love is a very straightforward guitar rock album, which this is not exactly, but it kind of is. Close enough. And Octune Baby is...

Octune Baby is we're weirder and more jokey, but we'll get to there. We're getting a card ahead of the Bono. This album has the fucking and most insane first four song lineup of a lot of albums that I've heard in my lifetime. I completely agree. Number one, where the streets have no name. Number two, I still haven't found what I'm looking for.

Number three, with or without you, which is a song about me and my job. Number four, bullet the blue sky, which isn't all often counted in like this, because it wasn't a single, but that song is a smash. That song is a smash. I think among even a casual YouTube fan, yeah, those first fours, I would add the fifth one. Running to stand still. Running to stand still is so good. And that's a heroin song.

That's another projecting into a heroin addicted couples' brain song. And I, yes, the first half, the first side of the Joshua tree is. is immortal, like genuinely. And Bullet the Blue Sky is maybe their single best live song. And it's political as well, of course. Again, like to have a song that's that directly political be, you know, an arena rock staple, you know, doing that magic trick. Right. Exactly.

Yeah, yeah. It's sort of like imagine like a rockier. Exactly. Fine. You two 21 pilots and Imagine Dragons. And space, space, space, space, space, space, space. The Rolling Stones, the Beatles, every. Yes. Okay. That was good.

So in this album, you know, what I think, we talk about this on Little Bandsplane, the podcast often, whereas like sometimes it just takes an extra little dash of something, special to just kick everything into a different gear. You know, it's like when Rick Rubin joined the Red Hot Chili Peppers on the little album you might know called Blood Sugar Sex Magic. That really took us to the next level. I think here it's a man named Flood. Right.

Yes. Would you agree? I would agree. Flood does not produce this album. He is the engineer. However, I think he had a lot to do with the sound of this album. And I think Flood is going to figure in a lot of records in the... that fashion in the years to come.

He's never going to be the focal point. Right. He's going to be essential. Yes. He, before this, now he's obviously extremely famous, but before this, he had done some good and strong albums, but most notably, I think he had worked a lot with Nick Cave, including on From Her to Eternity, one of the best albums of all time. And I think that's really largely why they hired him because they loved the Nick Cave albums.

Yeah. And that's another case. Like, you two is not going to sound or look or act or be like Nick Cave. The first time I saw Flood's name in the liner notes was the downward spiral was the nine-ish-nails record. And so that's where I grew to love Flood. I'd forgotten about him being on the Joshua Tree. Would you agree the theme of this album more broadly is America? Yes.

I mean, yes. I mean, that's sort of what happened. The distance between America and America is basically where we're headed here. But yes, I mean, calling at the Joshua Tree, the album cover, you know, they're going to make a movie called Rattle and Hum that really tries to drive this home. But like I was saying, this is where they're trying to be the most American bands that ever existed. And just the iconography of like the outfits, like Bono with the vest with no shirt and like the cowboy hat with his acoustic guitar, like at his side.

Like, you know what it reminds me is like... The village people. The village people and like wanted dead or alive. Oh, totally. Bon Jovi. Like this is there. I've seen a million faces and I've rocked them all like sort of wind-swept. Anton Corbyn, you know, Vistas.

You know, we are the eighth wonder of the world. And it's in the southwestern United States, U-2 period. Yes, I would agree with that. Like, it is a bit like someone read about America and then made an album. So this album, okay, lots of songs about God. Where the streets have no name is not directly about God, but it's about religion. It's about how I believe Bono is inspired by someone saying that you can identify a person's religion and their income by where they live. Right.

Yes. by what side of the street they're on. Right. I still haven't found what I'm looking for. Is it love? No. Is it heroin? No, it's God. Or it's how to live godlessly or godwithly. It's not a word. And that song is also written in the style of King David. So don't you dare. And with or without you, the single most difficult for me to swallow song that is not a love song, that I really belted my heart.

out to cried to thinking that this is a gorgeous love song and it is a love song about God. I have put with or without you on a mixtape for a lady in my life. People get married to this song. I guess the like see the thorn twist in your side moment should have given it away, but it didn't. I was, you know, I didn't get this album in my hands until I was like 12 or 13. So what the fuck did I know about anything? also. I was raised without religion.

Why don't we hear Wither Without You? Please. Whoever it's about, it's beautiful. This is Wither Without You. That was Wither Without You, Producer Dylan, again, who is godless and soulless, does not like that song. I cannot understand. What's wrong with you, Producer Dylan? Okay, well, this is a real statement because I've talked with some friends who are like, I would like red hot chili peppers if only Anthony Kedis was not the singer.

And I wonder if people think that about you too as well. Because it's not that Bono is a bad singer. That's not the parallel I'm making. But he's a very distinctive singer. He's a gorgeous singer, obviously. But his voice is extremely distinctive. See, I knew it, Producer Dylan. Producer Dylan says, I think that's why she doesn't like it.

Maybe it's because it's ubiquitous, because you've been, like, against your will had to hear Bono sing your whole life. or if it's just some people don't like that, I don't know. I can't tell you, I don't think I've spent one second imagining somebody else singing for you two. I think Bono has always been so synonymous with you two. He is... Same with Anthony Kedis and the Red Hunter. But the thing there is like he can't sing that well, Anthony Ketus is the thing.

Like I... What is your point? My point is that in the red hot chili pepper's case, the argument is I would like this band better if they had a better singer. And with you two, what you're saying is I would like this band better if they had a less distinctive but still good singer. And I, that's a very, that's a different vibe to me. Yeah, take it up with producer Dylan. Is there a specific person you are picturing fronting you two instead of Bono?

know, like, are we putting Billy Idol? Yeah, producer Dylan wants it to be Graham Parsons. Graham Parsons, who is dead, which is a problem. I put those words in her mouth, but she loves Graham Parsons. Who can I say? Speaking of the Joshua tree, there's an important, I want to let you talk about this album, too, because I've just been talking about it. But there's several important things that I just need to. talk about for Yossi Core. Number one, I don't think I'm put two and two together until just

recently that the title of my current favorite 2003 teen drama One Tree Hill takes its name, which makes so much sense. Have you watched One Tree Hill Rocks? Is that the one where the dog eats the heart? Yes, that is. Wow, good memory. That is the single fact that I know about that show is that the dog eats the transplant's heart. Okay. A thing about One Tree Hill that I don't know if other people notice is that it is a not subtly religious show. Okay. Like, the whole storyline is about two brothers who are at odds because one has been cast aside. I mean, it's literally, like, everything is like heavy-handedly biblical.

So anyways, I'm just tying that producer Dylan, who's curious to where I'm going here, is that One Tree Hill is religiously called. connotated and took its name from the classic religious rock band, U2. So there, suck it. Producer's song. Anyways, the other thing I wanted to mention is that my maybe top three U2 song of all time was left off this album, which is the sweetest thing. Which is a love song that is not about God, was written for this album. and they just released it as a B-side

to the single where the streets have no name. But it ended up becoming one of their most popular songs. I can't picture that song on this track list. As you say, like this track list itself is so iconic. And even like the second half, like the less beloved B-side of this record, is just so of a piece for me that I have trouble imagining sweetest thing there. And maybe that's because I first heard it like most people did in 2000, And just the time jump does it work for me.

But like I get liking that song, but I do get it not fitting the vibe, you know, the pretty locked and, you know, cohesive vibe of this record. Well, in that case, we'll play it later, but we're going to play it. Do you want to play another song of this album? This is an important album and it might be good to hear another song off of it. Let's talk about and let's play in God's country. which is on the B side and which is a huge edge song, a huge edge guitar song. A huge melon song.

Exactly. There's that documentary, I think it's 2008. It might get loud, which is about the edge Jimmy Page and Jack White, like hanging out together and sort of describing, you know, their guitar rigs and approach,

you know, and just vibing together as like, world-class rock star guitarists. And in that movie, like, the edge sort of shows you how he does what he does, like the pedals, like just the gear, like just the nuts and bolts of what he does. And like, it's not... That sounds boring. Well, what's wild about it is like, I think it's with a later song.

It's with elevation or something. He's like, here's what it sounds like. And like, he plays like this rad guitar with. He's like, here's what I'm actually playing on my guitar. And it's burr, burr. Like, it's two boring chords that get filtered through a bunch of pedals and through an amp and come out as this colossal thing.

This is what I'm actually playing. Like, there's the disparity between, like, what he's doing and the sound that he generates. That's not like a deception. That's not a trick. And it's more of a, like, a magic trick. He's not, like, shredding, but it sounds like he's shredding.

And I think that in God's country is an example of that where the edge guitar tone and like the delay pedal and just the sound that you immediately associate with him is just the engine driving this song off the Joshua Tree in particular. So from a guitar god perspective, like this is the jam on the Joshua tree in God's country. Okay. Let's, for the men, here is in God's country. That was in God's country.

That's a great song. The Edge does a gorgeous guitar work on it. Your reply, guys, thank you for indulging us. You mean my family? Yes. This album is a fucking smash hit. This album, I mean, Robert Hilburn of the Los Angeles Times says, You Two is what the Rolling Stones ceased being years ago,

the greatest rock and roll band in the world. There we go. So we're not mincing words here. The press loves this. This album won two Grammys, notably album of the year, but also best rock performance by a duo or a group with a vocal. And it is one of the world's best-selling albums of all time.

Like it's in the top 100 highest-selling albums of all time, 25 million copies. Wow. All right. Yeah. It's also preserved, much like Producer Dylan's Teen Diaries in the Library of Congress. A great honor for the Joshua Tree to be associated with producer Dillon's teenage.

Writing about how much she hates you too, ironically. I wish we didn't have to talk about Rattle and Humb, but we do. Let me take that back. Rattle and Humb produced one of my favorite YouTube songs of all time. So for that reason alone, I'm glad it exists. It is, I guess, supposed to be a live, was supposed to be a live album, but then turned into this like monstrosity double album that had live songs. They wrote new songs.

They covered a bunch of songs. They put out a feature film that was so expensive. It was just supposed to be like an art house. You know, but like then they had Paramount Pictures had to buy it. Distribute it globally. Jimmy Iovine produced this album. Good for him. I think there's like some facts about Jimmy Iovine had tried to produce an earlier U2 album,

but they had declined. You're going to stick with Brian Eno. But they end up coming back to him a couple of times for live albums. What's your take on Rattle and Hum? Yeah, this does have the feel of like a goof, not a goof. You two does not goof as sort of a minor thing that guys. got out of control and just sort of the inherent pompousness of it kept ramping up. The cover songs are very funny to me because they feel very bad to me.

Like it starts off with them covering helter-skelter and it just, it does not work for me at all. They do all along the watchtower. It does not really work for me at all. Like this is another thing of like them trying to sound like what they are not. You know, like it's, they sort of go through this arduous process. and come out the other side. Like, no, we should keep just playing you two saws for sure. But yeah, I think that they came into it sincerely and with modest intentions, yes.

But just the modesty fell away and it just kept getting bigger and bigger and pompouser and pompouser. And what appeared on screen in the end just seemed like this myth-making narcissistic. You know, we're covering the Beatles because we think we're. the Beatles. You know, we're hanging out with BB King because we think we're on B.B. King's level. It struck critics as this very narcissistic and self-important, like, statement that we are gods now. And you will hold us in the same breath as, like, the actual rock gods of our youth. Oh, you don't say critics said that. Like, maybe again, the god John Perales, who called it a mess that exuded sincere egomania.

And he said that it was plagued by the group's attempts to grab every mantle in the rock and roll Hall of Fame and that each one was embarrassing in a different way. That's why he's the best. That is why he is sincerely the best. John Porellis, come on Bansplain challenge. Yes. I challenge John to come on Bansplain. That's right. Okay. But let's not dwell on the bad.

Desire is a fucking great song. Sure. Absolutely. That Bono has said was inspired by the Stooges song, 1969. Low-key, the members of you two have good music taste. Right. Yeah, okay. I'll buy it. Because they're so sincere, I'll buy it.

Because they're so sincere. Like, he's not, I don't think Bono's the type to lie. Right. No, right. That's true. Punk band name to make himself sound cooler, you know? I agree. Okay.

The banger here is all I want is you, famously in the future. film in 1994 feature film reality bites. Hey, ladies. I just need to know if he's okay. I don't disagree. All I want is you always struck me as like a very successful

like bad sequel, like reboots, remake. Like all I want is you and bad always felt like parallel songs to me. Like they just, someone was like, we would like you to rewrite bad but for a movie.

where Winona Ryder and Ethan Hawk end up together. And they're like, all right, we can do that. And they wrote all I want is you. If it's not broke, why must you fix it is what I'm saying? And you know what? Furthermore, one of them sounds suspiciously like David Bowie's heroes. And if you're going to redo a thing, it might as well be your own. Let's hear all I want is you.

And then we'll hear from the dean. Oh, no. We can't get out of here. That is the dean. This is All I Want is You. That was, all I want is you. Shouts to Troy Dyer.

Great film character played by Ethan Hawke. In the film Reality Bites, as we mentioned before. You know, it's weird for me to bring it up now because maybe that's not the best example of what I'm about to say. But Bono is a really good lyricist. I agree. Even whilst being 1,000% sincere and plagiarizing the Bible all the time,

still a great lyricist. Absolutely. Absolutely. Hey, that's my bike. Was that the name of his record? That's right. That was the name of the band. That's right.

And they cover violent fans. That's right. Add it up, right? Just one in case. Yeah. Ethan Hawk has a song on the soundtrack. It's really good. Sorry, go on, please.

Is it called I'm nothing? I don't know why I remember all these random things. Should she have ended up with Ben Stiller? I had this thought that like as the years have gone. Okay, you're making a face. Is it because we both work for the corporation now? and we feel that we more closely align with Ben Stiller's character who works for In Your Face TV. Is that what it's called?

Is it all one word? When he says, I know why the cagebird sings. He says, what's your glitch? Hey, what is your glitch, huh? Right, right, right, yeah. Okay, so she shouldn't have ended up with Benzell. It's fine. I hope she and Ethan or Troy are very happy.

Maybe what you're saying has something to do with why I'm still single, but it doesn't matter, okay? I'm holding out for my Troy Dyer. Okay. Good luck with that. Thank you. Okay. So Robert Crisgau on Rattle and Home. Here we go. Pretentious? Ew?

Is that Oi? Is that a French word? Natural meant. My, that ain't all. Wow. Over the years, they've melded Americana into their old world rifts. And while Bono's play the blues edge overstates this accomplishment, their groove is some kind of rock and roll wrinkle. Here's the funny part.

This is one of his more positive reviews. He gives them a B plus. A B plus. This is better. What was the C plus? Was it boy? Yeah, it was boy. Okay.

So this record is a full letter grade better than boy. All right. Edge play the blues is pretty funny. It's pretty fucking funny. Very funny. Yeah. Melonhead, hit it. If you strip away those really unnecessary covers,

the live songs are really good. Yes, absolutely. Angel of Harlem is a great thought. The gospel, the actual gospel version of I still haven't found what I'm looking for. And the B.B. King song is great. When love comes to town, like, yes, I agree. But like it's saying like this YouTube project would be great without the bloat is sort of to ignore an essential elements of you two, like inseparable.

Yeah. I agree. I agree completely that if, you know, here in the Spotify age, when you can distill Rattle and Hum down, you know, to six, eight, ten essential tracks, even the edge singing the song Van Demons Land. Like, that's an affecting little, let's let Melonhead take one moment for me. So, yeah. Step into the, step into the light, melon.

Don't worry, because quickly we will forget Rottel and Hum because. It's November 1991. What else came out this month? Actually, I think it came out in September 1991. You know, Rob. Never mind. That's right, babe. Everybody take a drink.

Yeah. Shots up. Yeah, it was September 24th, 1991. The thing is, continuously confounded by the year of 1991. This is also your guns and roses Use Your Illusion Double album came out. Metallica Black album, yeah. These are all some of the highest selling albums of this year.

What the fuck is going on, babe, in 1991? The 90s are officially starting a decade still has traces of the last decade for like up to a year into the new decade. We can go ahead and say, that, you know, never mind Achtung Baby and the black album all hitting

within however many months of each other they hit. Like, that's when the 90s start. And blood sugar effects magic. God damn it. Don't you dare fucking forget it. Anthony! Stay out of this. Also, producer Dylan, because she must ruin both of our lives,

needs to point out that she was conceived during this time. Oh, good. That's... I wonder to which of those albums. Well, yeah. Jokes on you, producer. and your parents were listening to Octune Baby. So Octum Baby comes out November 1991. Bono is 31 years old.

Oh, wow. I know, crazy, right? All this has happened before Bono's even like... 30. 30, basically. This time, Daniel L'Anois takes the front producer seat, although it's still him and Brian Eno, but he's the lead producer.

Did you know that this album sought inspiration from the German Reuter? unification. I see that you've watched the documentary about the making of this record that you told me. There's only one version of it on YouTube. It has Spanish subtitles. Rattle at home is not widely available either. It's not available at all.

I tried to watch it. It's literally not available. I wonder why that is. Like, if you two wanted that to be available, it would be available. And so is that... It would be on your computer playing right now. Just on the bathroom wall. It's like, how do they do it?

Right. It's so, yes. I had a vague sense that this is their German record, obviously, with the title. But like, this is, you know, I had like a, this is them doing their spin on a Bowie thing. You know, and of course, the Berlin Wall coming down. The Berlin Wall coming down. Very interested in global affairs. Jesus Jones, et cetera.

Like, yes, this is, this is their big moment. You know, it made me laugh because apparently they were so seeking inspiration from the German reunification that they began recording this in Berlin. Right. And for whatever reason, being in Germany made them testy. And the recording was fraught and full of tension. Is that so? Much like Germany. and they left to go back to Dublin to finish it,

but they wrote one while they were in Germany. I like to picture them like hitting Burgain, which is, I don't think was even around back then. Bergen. Probably not. Yeah. Yeah. If you can't pronounce it, you're not getting in.

I can't say that much. Bar-Kine. Would they let Bono in? Like, Bono shows up with the vest. The vest, the hat. This guy knows what's up. This is my favorite YouTube album. I respect.

that completely. Absolutely. I think this and Joshua Tree are the one-two punch of like true greatness. Yeah. And you know what? Okay, I'm kind of starting to understand producer Dylan. We have this theory here on Bandsblane, we being just me, no one probably

agrees with it, that you're usually your favorite album by an artist, not always, but usually is the one you find first. No, that's true. I think that's, yes, I agree with that completely. And I did, I had Octune Baby again at like 10 years old. I think I got it again with my large BMG Music

Club grift that I did every couple of months. They didn't care. They just gave these things away with your fake name and you tape a penny and in come the 11 CDs. Did you remember though to reject whatever the CD of the month? So yeah, that's most people did not. That's how they get you. That is exactly how they get you. Yeah. Suddenly you've got a Rod Stewart record and you're like, Oh, no, they got me. Totally. I paid $19 for this shit. The Life is a Highway CD came and you were like, motherfucker.

So this, I got this and I, Octum Baby is amazing. And I was, you know, 10 or 11 and I thought it was the coolest fucking thing in the world. And so I've always had this like soft spot for you too because I listen to the shit out of this album. Let's play a song. Because this is a favorite. We might play three songs off a pair and no one's going to stop me. even look at me, producer Dylan. It's your show, man.

That's right, man. Okay, I'll let you pick. Oh, no, no, I'm going to pick. You pick first. I'll go last. I think we need to hear mysterious ways. First, not because it's the best song on the album, because it's not. It's not.

But it's very of the album. I agree. It was the first single, if I remember correctly. This song, we have changed course. from Joshua Tree. Like, that's what I'm saying. Like, it's like, we're in the 90s now, baby,

and you can hear it. Let's hear Mysterious Ways. That was Mysterious Ways. Oh, did you think this was a song about, what did you think it was about? Because I'll tell you what it's about. It's about the Holy Spirit. It's about Mary Magdalene.

It's literally, apparently she is the Holy Spirit. I believe it. The Holy Spirit. The first line, Johnny take a walk with your sister the moon, which I do love. And I always thought it was just like a cool trippy lyric. No, this is a reference to St. Francis of Assisi's poem, canticle of the sun,

popularly known as brother's son, sister moon. Fuck me up, Bono. Absolutely. I think this is the one and only YouTube song that I heard too often on the radio. Oh, you don't like it. Is that what you're saying? It's not that I don't like it, but it's not my favorite. It would not be my top five songs off the album.

But that was the only time where I've heard this song too many times, you know, because you two is not necessarily in real time, like played on the radio or on MTV all the time. Right. From this point forward. But this one achieved a degree of ubiquity that I found a little disquieting, if only because I loved, like, seven songs on this record more. This album has bangers. I hear you.

I think it's also, and I might be wrong here. I'm just spitballing. I'm letting the Holy Spirit speak through me, if you will. do. This is a very feminine song. Like I feel like... Right. You know what I mean? And I think like, especially like men who like you two might not be like

this is the jam. But I don't know. It has like a sway. It has like a... I don't know. Something about it. When they played it live, at least on the tour for this record, Bono would dance with a belly dancer.

Exactly. That would be a lady dancer would appear on stage to entrance, you know, both the crowd and Bono himself. And so I think they would agree with you about the feminine energy from this song. Also, sorry, this line, I really apologize to everyone listening and most of all to you, Rob, but, and I know it's a reference to prayer, but if you want to kiss the sky, better learn how to kneel on your knees boy. On your knees boy. That's a very cool lyric for a lady to say out loud. Um, okay. But can we at least agree that this song

marks you can hear like the shift we're like okay we're 20% less serious now. Yeah I think I think they the party line at least is that they were bummed out by the you know

John Perales' review of Rattle and Hum specifically John this album is because of John Perales. Thank you John Perales. Yeah like I think that Rattle and Humberland They just, they were like, nobody liked it. People thought we were assholes.

You know, people thought we were, we thought we were the greatest thing, the greatest band that ever lived, you know. And it's, this is the 90s. And the 90s is going to be about irony, you know, and hedonism and so forth. And this is, yeah, they, they took a turn. They tried to change with the times, et cetera. And that would take them, this is some very bizarre and dark places as the 90s went on. But yes, this is styled as a.

turning point and a successful one. Like, I think they brought enough of themselves, you know, one, you know, is a pantheon U2 song and like just a monster power ballad that is, you know, I'm sure about God as well. No, it doesn't know. You know, the image, like in, you know, the album single or the single cover, I think, and just like what they would play in concerts of the Buffalo going off the cliff. Like, this is a beautiful. you know, sound and vision moments for them and sort of bringing the U-2 vibe into a dark and ironic new decade,

like totally successfully. Yeah, but the cover is very fun. It was very colorful. Right, right. It's like a collage of photos. The one that I remember the most, I don't know about you, is the ring, the giant silver YouTube ring. I think Adam Clayton is naked. He's censored.

There's like an X or something. but he's naked on one of the panels, yeah. Let's listen to one because we have to, and it's probably my number one favorite U2 song, me personally. I respect that. Here it is. This is one off of Akhtun, baby. That was One by U2.

You know, we were saying before this is about God, this is actually one of the U2 songs that I think has the most interpretations. I think that's true, yes. So one interpretation, obviously, is just like a straight up love song, you know, a harrowing song about difficulties in a relationship. Love is a temple. Love the higher law. Yeah. Sure. But then it's like, have you come here for forgiveness? Have you come to raise the dead? Who comes to raise the dead? Who comes to play Jesus to the lepers in your head? I love that line though.

That to me, Anthony Kedis does come to play Jesus to lepers in your head every night around. 9 p.m. That line, I think, is Bono's genius, right? Because that's the line where it's like, he's kind of fucking with you. He's like, you know what I mean? Because it holds all the meanings in it. Like, is it a love song about someone who's coming to play Jesus?

Lepers in your head can mean a lot of things, right? That's a metaphor. But it could be just straight up. Like, I don't know. That's why I really love this song because, like, I think it's both. I think it's a love song. I think it's a song about God, and I think he kind of got to achieve maybe his ultimate

lyrical dream, which is to have a song that's quite, you know, earnestly about both. Right. I, yes, Bono is a self-aware person, like, like, galactically, like overly self-aware. But long ago, he realized by this point that everyone is going to assume that he's talking about God at all times, whether or not he alludes to God in any oblique way. You know, he sort of knows what you expect from him. And he's not going to stop doing it just because you expect it. But he is, as you say, you know, you can be sincere but still fuck with people, I guess.

And like that's, you two is going to spend a lot of the 90s trying to do both at the same time. And it, you know, it might get them in a little trouble eventually. But yes, he is aware of how he is going to be interpreted. So he plays into it to a certain extent. He plays against it to a certain extent. And you get sort of a tension there that adds to the tension of the song already. Did you know that there's also a popular interpretation of this song that it's a conversation between a father and his HIV positive gay son? I did not know that.

That's purely from genius. So I don't know if that's true or not. But it does say that the singles cover art that you referenced was photographed by an HIV positive artist and activist named David Wojnarazik. I can't pronounce Polish names. I guess that's where people extrapolated that idea. But the, I guess, proceeds from the sale of the single did don't get donated to various AIDS causes. Yeah. I mean, something worth saying overall is like Bono is one of the most famous.

probably the single most famous rock star philanthropist of all time. You know, he was, I believe he was Times person of the year along with Bill and Melinda Gates, which is, of course, now mad, awkward. I was, what year was, 2005, you know, just for, you know, it's like debt jubilees,

you know, like four decades of refugee crises, like environmental causes. Like, yeah, Bono is one of the most famous philanthropists, celebrity philanthropists. And, like, I think far in a way, the single biggest rock star philanthropist. Can I just share something with you in which I'm like, does the Irish Times hate Bono? Because I was trying to look up the date of this time magazine person of the year. And they wrote a piece about it. Bono joins the elite club.

And what is the first line? Bono has followed the footsteps of Joseph Stalin and Ayatollah Khomeini. by being named Times Magazine's person of the year. Seems like there's an agenda. Not the Ayatollah Khomeini. Remember when we were the person of the year? Remember when the person of there was you? So we have also followed in the footsteps of Stalin.

Of the Ayatollah Khomeini. That made me laugh. Yes, he is a, you know, he practices what he preaches, if you will. He does. Precisely. I liked this quote from Brian E. which he said that his entire job as second producer was to come in and erase anything that sounded too much like YouTube.

Right. That's going to keep happening. You know, there's going to be big YouTube songs in the future where they say, like, we were trying not to write a U2 song, like a stereotypical U2 song. We almost threw this out, but it was too good. You know, yes, at this point, like they're aware of, you know, the legacy that they're already leaving. you know, and the way that everyone expects them to sound, you know, and they're going to sound much different, you know,

in their next two albums for this exact reason because they are tired of sounding like themselves. And so Octum Baby is like the last time where they're trying not to sound like themselves and they have Brian Eno, you know, trying to erase anything that is to themselves, but like they can't help it. And they still sound like themselves,

which doesn't mean that Brian fails. at his job, you know, but yes, it's there, there is always this tension between not wanting to repeat, you know, even their past glories, you know, and this is the last time that they fail to not repeat their last glories, their past glories. He also said that the buzzwords on this record. I didn't know there was like buzzwords. He said there was buzzwords on this record. Okay. Trashy, throwaway, dark, sexy, and industrial, all good. And earnest, polite, sweet, righteous, raucous, and linear, all bad.

Interesting. I have to say that my favorite song in this record is Acrobat. Yeah, weird favorite song, but I'm with you. I think that's the song that gets trashy, dark, industrial. To me, it is the angriest, loudest, like, most angst-ridden U-2 songs. Like, even the really sad despairing U-2 songs cannot help but sound like, hopeful and sort of empowering, you know, despite themselves. But like, this is the song, the one song really in their whole catalog that for me like really is sort of mired in this darkness

and this grief. And it's like the one you two song where they're not sure if they're going to prevail, I guess is the only way to put it. Like I don't know if it's doubt that's being conveyed, but there's just there's a tone that this song has that I don't get from them anywhere before and anywhere after. It just feels singular to me as this very dark moment for them in a really appealing way. Okay. Where you're really selling it, babe. Let's hear it.

I'm trying. This is Acrobat. That was Acrobat. Rob, what do you think that song is about? Oh, God. In heroin. But you're not saying it's about God. You're just saying, oh, God, because I asked you.

Yes. I do want to say the 33 and a third book about Oxfung Baby was really strikingly good to me. It's written by a dude named Stephen Cantanzerite. I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. And it's entirely about like the theology of the record that even in its dark, grimy, industrial phase, like it is entirely about spirituality and religion

and sort of reconciling being a rock star. with being a Christian and so forth. And just it's very scholarly, but it's, I really, you know, this is a record that I've heard a thousand times that I've read a ton about. And it's one of those situations where you don't think

that someone can sort of reframe the way you think about something, you know, that's had all the meaning wrong from it. But like it was a new perspective on something I didn't think a new perspective was possible on. Right. I think the tour for this album,

the zoo TV tour, is pretty important. It would say this is how U-2 would approach touring going forward. And this is where I first saw U-2 live. I saw them on the Zoo TV tour. You know, I was 13, 14, 15 years old. And it's... You were all three years old.

Did your parents take you? My mother... Did they tour for three years? Oh, you know with your mom? My mom is a huge U-2 fan. You-2 is very important to my mother, to my mom's side of the family. She's got a bunch of brothers.

and sisters with a very intense emotional attachment to you too. Like whenever they tour, obviously in Cleveland, Columbus, but like Pittsburgh, Chicago, anywhere in the Midwest, they will travel to see you two. And it's, you know, it will come in, it will become important later how important you two is to my mother. But this is where I, this is one of my first big concerts and possibly my first, like, big arena concert.

Like they played the Cleveland Cavs. basketball arena. In Cleveland, the pixies opened. Wow. The pixies hated this tour. You know, the pixies sounded terrifying and loud and shrill, and I didn't know anything about them. And they sort of scared me. And I like, I have a memory of being on the concourse and being like, I don't want to go in there and listen to these people. These people are scaring the shit out of me. You know, and there's like a bunch of TVs on stage. Like they're doing like an information an overload type thing,

like very media saturated. You know, this is when the Bono had the alter ego, the fly, you know, where he's sort of playing into his own megalomania and like he's a star and he's got the glasses. He has a giant glasses. Yeah, this is him at his most self-aware. Like he had the bit where he would call the White House,

like you would try and call the White House switchboard, you know, in 1992 or whatever and try and speak to George Bush. The president is not available. The president of the. United States is not available to me? There was a major tour for them. There were cars, like German cars,

hanging from the ceiling above the stage. Low cost. Well, yeah. This is not the highest cost U-2 tour famously, but this is where they get the idea. It's like maybe we can just spend billions of dollars on the sets of our tours going forward. It's really funny to think of 1992,

or whatever, and people being like, we are being tormented. Yeah, exactly. Cable TV, which is cable. There's like 50 channels. Yeah. Exactly. And it's like, if only you know, knew what was coming there. So you knew that you literally cannot be free of the grasp of Gmail.

This tour is important. Rob, thank you for bringing it up. 13-year-old you going to see it at the Pixies. this is another one of those things that started as a, you know, something for funzies and maybe got out of hand, but not in a bad way. What is the album Zeropa, right? Like this was, they were going to just put something out to kind of keep promoting the tour, which is why it's called Zeropa. Right. But it ended up kind of taking on a life of its own, right?

Yes. And this is the first, like, deliberately weird U-2 album. Like there are a handful of quote unquote normal sort of classic like stay far away so close as like a first ballot like U2 like power ballot. Yeah, because it was written actually during Octum Baby. Right. It's the song that could have fits on Octum Baby or even like on the Joshua tree if like the sound was sort of adjusted. Like it has sort of the classic U2 shape and approach. but like it's the, I'm pretty sure the first single off Zuropa was numb.

That's right, babe. Which is the single weirdest. It's like a photo negative of a normal U2 song, right? Like, first of all, the edge is not so much singing as just mumbling. Would we say he's rapping? Oh, God. I extremely deadpan rapping, but sure, he's rapping the way Debbie Harry is. Sure, exactly.

Yes, sure. The Edge is rapping. Your guitar player is rapping on the first single of your album after your two biggest blockbuster albums. Yes. Numb is an impressively perverse introduction to an impressively perverse album. The whole, every single line starts with don't.

Yeah, right. Don't move, don't talk out of time. Don't think. Don't worry. Everything is just fine. Just fun. It's a pretty fun. a good song. The video where it's just him sitting there impassively is like Bono is singing in his ear

and like they're wrapping the string around his head and so forth. Yeah, that video is cool. Tormenting old melon head. Yeah. This album was produced by Flood primarily. Which is why maybe partially why it's so weird. Because Flood's done some weird shit at this point. Floods, I think maybe, yeah, I think maybe he had already done Bjork.

He had already done sneaker pimps, I want to say. Like, he's doing some, like, cool weird shit, you know? Yeah. And I might have made all that up. I don't know. Whatever. It's produced by Flood. Brian Eno and The Edge.

And, yeah, I didn't remember that I liked this album, but I kind of like this album. I think it's actually, it's such a cliche, but it does grow on you. Totally. I think at first, like, like, a song like Lemon, like at the time. was just like, oh my God, like you two made a disco song. Like this is just so corny and disposable. But like Lemon is also about his mother, at least in part. Like you sort of realize that there's a much darker and more severe and more serious and more passionate engine driving lemon, you know, that you thought was just sort of a throwaway, you know, disco track.

You know, like this one, he's being totally sincere even now. Yeah. This album, I think, is one of the ones that benefits from, like, looking at it as a whole and, like, the theme as a whole, right? Because it's, like, it's meant to sound, I don't want to say post-apocalyptic, because that's an overused word. But it kind of is, right? Like, that's the sense of it. It's like a disillusionment with the modern day. Again, babe, you have no idea.

Instagram is coming. You don't even know about TikTok yet. You don't even know how far we've gone from God's love. But yeah, this is, again, this album has not gone far from God's love because there's still a bunch of songs about God on here the first time. Bono's interpretation of the story of the prodigal son. And then we can't not talk about the Johnny Cash song. Johnny Cash. The last song on the album.

The Wanderer. It's another impressively perverse move that the first time you hear it, it's like, this is bullshit. You know, they're fucking with us. you know, and maybe they are. But I think in time, you know, the gravity of that song, you know, and maybe it takes Johnny Cash passing

before it fully hits you. But like, that always sort of sneak attacks me when I listen to this record now, you know, that it sort of ends. It's much better than it should be, right, that song?

Right, yeah. It's just, it could so easily sort of come off corny or cheap or just like a prank. You know, but like he, Johnny Cash, of course, sings it so sincerely and so passionately, you know, and it works in spite of itself, in spite of everything that you know and love and hate about you too. Like it works somehow. And Bono did base these lyrics off of the Old Testament's Book of Ecclesiastes.

Did he? Yes. And he modeled the song's character after the book, Narrated to the Preacher. Are you still on Genius? No, no. That was pulled straight from Wikipedia. There we go. But it is true.

Yeah. I did want to say that I do love the song Daddy's going to pay for your crashed car. I do. I really like it. It's a good tune, good title, of course. You know, that's... Did you know it has a brass sample from a compilation called Lennon's favorite songs? Lennon.

L-E-N-I-N-N Not L-E-N-N-O-N That's right L-E-N-I-N What do you think some of Lennon's other favorite songs are like maybe the Vanga bus might be on there?

Give it away by the red hot chili peppers Give it away That's a song of communism If you will I'm saying That's the entire ethos I'd like to think

Lenin would have loved Imagine dragons At least 21 pund I'll say All right At least 21 pilots, if not. And 21 pilots, yeah, it did. Why don't we hear a song?

Rob, what song would you like to hear? I think it's either stay far away so close because it's quintessential classic U-2 even in the face of all this of trickery or we just do the wanderer. Do you want straight classic U-2 or do you want the weirdest U-2 flex imaginable?

This is the fork in the road. And like, they're going to be struggling with this fork in the road for the rest of their career. Pretty much to do stay, actually. The thing is, like, it's, we can't, let's, we'll clip the Johnny Cash one, but it's, it's a lot for someone who's just trying to, trying to get by. Just trying to listen to a podcast here, man. This is stay parentheses far away, so close. Okay, Rob, after Zeropa and the insane tour. and the whole, you know, we put on some costumes.

We played characters. We had prank called Mussolini. Not the dead Mussolini, the heir of the Mussolini. This doesn't get talked about a lot, and especially not in the conversation around whether or not you two is cool, which, you know, is an ongoing conversation. But in 95, you two did a collaboration with Brian, you know, not produced by a collaboration. under a fake band name called The Passengers called Original Soundtracks 1.

Did you ever listen to this? It's been a long, long time, but yes. This was under the radar. It's good. It goes, it's great. Yeah. You forget that they're tight with Brian Eno and that, you know, you two is very important to Brian Eno.

And Brian Eno's arc. There's a song called Elvis 8 America. Elvis Under the Hood. The song from, this record that endures is Miss Sarajevo with Pavarotti. Yeah, a little guy called Luciana Povera. A little dude.

The last time I saw you too is the Joshua Tree anniversary tour and they played Miss Sarajevo like after going through all of the Joshua Tree. And if I recall there's that song like there's a huge video screen behind them obviously and that song they're

playing somebody's movie that was like a drone shot of a refugee camp. It's just the drone is just floating around throughout the entire song. And I was in like a football stadium in Cleveland, you know, in the field of a football stadium in Cleveland with my mom, eating a hot dog with my entire family. And it was just, it's sort of a striking, it was just sort of a striking moment of a collision of Coca-Cola the size of your head. You were American flag. Yeah. There was, there was a lot going on. You know, it was whatever. It was 2017.

or something. And yeah, it was a lot to take in that moment. But yes, this is a cool semi-underground U-2 undertaking this record. Okay, let's talk about Pop. So Pop is, I think, maybe not today, because I don't know how well songs of experience and stuff did, but definitely up until this point was their, like, worst performing album.

I never really think of U-2 albums in terms of, like, record sales. It's not that it doesn't matter, but like you two records are excuses to tour. And more, it's, it's their least loved record. Like it's, this is their flop era. You know, and this is them getting too ironic and too weird and too far away from themselves. Right. They're just too far up their own asses at this point. Like, they're so successful that they're screwing around. You know, like they're, they're trying to make an electronica record, you know, and I think a lot of the issue with pop is down to the first single off pop, which is discotheque.

If I had done, there we go, please sing the entire song for us now. If I had done a U-2 song from my show for 60 songs that explained in the 90s, I would have done discotech and I would have talked about how bad U-2, you-two, or failed you too is as fascinating and tells you as much about you too is like transcendence you know all time great you too like there's something

fascinating about how off discothec is down to the video like remember the video where they're dressed like the village people you can see the thought bubbles from the other three guys from Larry

the edge and Adam of them imagining like beating up Bono as this is transpiring. Like you can just tell that the vibe is off. But I think the other thing the other thing this this record is known for is the art pop

tour. Pop Mart. Art Pop, I believe, was Lady Gaga. Thank you, thank you. Popmart. The Pop Mart tour with a lemon with the giant's lemon stage prop. It Did it not open on them once and they were stuck in it?

Or is that like just somebody imagining the most spinal tap thing they could have happened to them? You know what? I don't know if that's an urban legend or... I hope so. Yeah. It would have been fitting. You know, I'm just as someone who has now spent several weeks in a mental institution of you two, I have a more tender place in my heart for pop now.

because I feel like, yes, it didn't work. But at least it didn't work because they were really trying to evolve and do cool, weird stuff. You know, like it didn't end up being cool. But it, you know, there's some good songs on here, you know. I love staring at the sun. I think that's an amazing song still, like even indoors. The lyrics to Playboy Mansion are insane. There's mentions of Michael Jackson and it's truly crazy.

Michael Jackson. History. But like the B side of pop is kind of cool. It's like chilled out and like vibey. You know, like you can really hear like, I think Nelly Hooper worked a lot on this album who had worked with like Bjork and DJ Shadow and sneaker pimps and stuff.

He ended up not being credited. I think he had to, they take so long to make albums. And I think he was like, I have a job. It's called the Romeo and Juliet's score and I have to go do it. So he's like,

a great score. Fantastic score. He's a very talented. And you can kind of really hear his fingerprints on some of that. But yeah. But it was a failed experiment, but it was a cool experiment.

There's other U2 albums that are, in my opinion, maybe not as failed, but worse than this. Because they just suck. Like, they're just like bad triple Xeroxes of early YouTube.

And to me, that's more disappointing than, like, a band who's really big and uses, you know, that time to try stuff. Right. No, I, the second half is a vibe. That's, that song Miami. Yeah, it's great. It's, like, inherently corny

because it's just Bono talking about how much he enjoys Miami. I did not see the Pop Mart tour, but my friends did. Your mom did, I'm sure. I'm sure my mom did. And they, when they played Miami, they went straight from Miami into bullet the blue sky. And like, that's like a top five like song transition and a rock concert that I didn't see.

Right. And I still think about those two songs coming together. I'm like, what a rad moment. Yeah. That would have been in like a legitimate kind of bridge. Like, that's the best case scenario for what they were trying to do. But I completely agree that like, that's, that was sort of my purpose in thinking. about discotheque is like failed ambition, you know, is more noble and in retrospect,

like more interesting to hear than like treading water, you know, semi-competently. You know, I don't know if there, I would describe, I don't know if any U-2 album sucks. Okay, yeah, fine. I was being ungenerous. My mom is going to write some tweets about that. But yes, I agree. There's this song, Mofo. which is early on pop and it's sort of their techno-ish jam.

You know, it's sort of the loudest and the most chaotic. But I, once again, I don't know if I had ever sat and like read the lyrics to this song, but it's about his mother, you know, and there's, I was struck by these lines, which I sort of knew them, but I'd never sort of glued them all together. It's his mother, am I still your son? You know I've waited for so long to hear you say so. mother you left and made me someone. Now I'm still a child, but no one tells me no.

This is your letter to your mom after she wrote the mean letter to. After my mom told me no. Yes. I feel like if those words were in like a standard, you know, rock anthem, you two song, like those would be famous lines in the context of you too. Like that's about as honest about Bono's megalomania. as Vano is going to be in song. Like that distraught me as a really striking Bono combination

of like vulnerable and invulnerable. And I just, I've always sort of liked that song, but just sort of listening to the lyrics closely as I'd never done, it sort of opened it up for me. And I do think that, you know, if there's a record of U-2s that you want to rehabilitate or that you can go back to now and like find stuff that you didn't know was there before,

like I think pop is it, And for that to happen, it has to sort of be rejected and failed at the time. Totally. Let's hear discotheque. I do want to say that it is like pretty, I don't know how you want to interpret this, but like at the very least you can say it's impressive that even with Nellie Hooper and Flood and all these like, you know, very talented, cool, make cool shit, Bjork people, it still came out this way because the U-2ness of things is just always the largest common denominator of anything.

Cannot be diluted, yeah. This is a great time for us to remind you that this is a music plus talk show, which does mean that when the track comes, you can skip it and go to the next talk segment. Just if you wanted to, you're free to listen to all of discotheque if you would like to. It's not that bad. Here is Disco Tech. that was discotheque. Disco tech reminds me of what my parents call

like a nightclub. You know, like when I was young, they'd be like, oh, you're going to the discotheque because they're like old and... Okay, two things. A glorious thing that producer Dylan did the research and the lemon did get stuck not once, but several times. Several times.

Yeah, once in Las Vegas and once in Japan, and they were stuck inside to such a degree that the lemon had to be wheeled off the stage with you two still trapped inside. Absolutely. Beautiful. And I brought up the sales, Rob, because I think it's like this, I'm directly quoting

Rob Harvilla. Oh, no. Much like GM, U2 is too big to fail. I believe you wrote that in your village voice piece about one of their albums. But it's interesting to me when even your own devoted fan base abandons you. Like for a U2 album to merely go platinum when every other one is going like quadruple, quintruple, 17 times platinum is a pretty big deal. Because that means that even your diehards were like, oh, that's okay.

We'll stick this one out. In 1997, like back when you could still sell records. Yeah. Napster hadn't, you know, overtaken. Limewire wasn't on the scene. Like, you know, so this was, I think it was a big deal. And I think it's also a big deal to point out because while we might not care about U2's record sales, U2 cares about U2's record sales.

And I think this kind of wounded them in a way that, like, does ripple throughout the rest of their output. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Speaking of the rest of their output, after they had a press conference in the lingerie section of a Kmart in New York City to announce, this is real, the Pop Mart tour. And they did the Pop Mart tour, which I think was like, again, you didn't go and I didn't go because I didn't even live in America at the time. but it was like a wink at commercialism or consumerism or whatever, which is kind of funny coming from you too. And the critics were sort of like, okay, sure. You know, like, this is, I mean, the Rolling Stone loved it.

They gave it four stars. They said with pop, they've defied the odds and made some of the greatest music of their lives. So, you know, this is Entertainment Weekly. I think it's illegal for them to give them any lower than a B throughout the history of YouTube, whatever album, nothing's gotten lower than a B. Yeah. So, and Spin gave it a 9 out of 10.

Actually, I lied. Did they? Critics seemingly liked this album. Yeah, I think that if you're not a U-2 fan and you don't want the same old classic U-2, then at first blush, you're sort of shocked by how weird and how ambitious and how spirited it sounds. Like I, they, they sort of made a record for the people who didn't like them more than they made a record for the people who liked them.

They sort of, this is sort of the narrative that they embraced subsequently is it's like they turned away from what made them great and tried to do something different. And like people who really weren't into their classic stuff liked it, people who were into their classic stuff didn't and didn't buy it. you know and so they they had cause to not you know regret it or turn away from it but like going forward now they had something to come back from you know now they had roots their roots to return to totally yeah i see what you're saying so i think it'd be like okay the return to form on a next album yeah exactly does happen which does happen producer dylan does want me to point out that the new york times review by nil strouce was pretty savage and i think he said the album is as a much a product of its producers flood Howie B and Steve Osborne as it is of U2, a band that sounds

too scared to be itself. In 1987, U2 sounded inspired. Now it just sounds expensive. Ouch. Fair enough, Neil. Fair enough, Neil. Speaking of a return to form, okay, all that you can't leave behind came out in October of 2000, the 10th U2 album, number 10.

I forgot how good this album is. It's pretty great. It's pretty spirited. You know, and it's, this is their return to form. Like the quote that you saw, you know, everything written about this album is sort of obligated to quote. I don't even know when he said it, but it's like we're reapplying for the job of the biggest band in the world.

Yes, it was here after pop because he was like, we lost the job. We were fired. Pretty much, yes. We're done with irony. You know, we're done with excess. You know, we're done with, with, you know, mass consumerism and computers, you know, and we're back, baby.

To guitars. Yeah, to guitars. And I'm pretty sure with Beautiful Day, they were like, we came up with this song and at first we were worried that we'd done it before. Like, it sounded too much like us. It sounded too much like the past. But it was just so great, you know, that we couldn't resist it. And we had to see it through.

And it's, you know, it's a fantastic, like a top two U2 song. It's a banger. It's a smash. It's a banger. This song was played at my wedding. I don't believe I requested it. Your mom. You can't really.

Your mom requests. You can't dance to this song. Like everyone was sort of just bouncing in place. So it was a very a rhythmic moment. Like Billy Jean into beautiful day and everyone's just sort of looking around like what. But like it made sense in context. You know, and it was this lovely little thing. But yes, this is their ostentatious, you know, but super, super, super.

successful return to form. You know, back to guitars, et cetera. Let's hear a beautiful day and relive your wedding for a moment, which I wasn't invited to. I must point out. I'm sorry about that. Here is. Beautiful day. That was beautiful day.

I have to say, always puts me in a good mood. Really good opening line. The heart is a bloom shoots up through the stony ground. Bono's back, babe. The poet is. is back. Back from Miami. Back from the Playboy Mansion.

Back from the lingerie section at the Kmart and Astor Place. I forget. Was it Aster Place? No, I don't know. It was there. Okay. It just says Kmart in New York City, but I would assume it's that one.

What other Kmart are they going to do with that? Yeah. That was the happening Kmart. Which, RIP, they closed it. They did. I worked like half a block. The Village Voice Office was like a block from that Kmart.

Yes. I often walk of shamed through that Kmart. to purchase a more suitable item of clothing. I want to point out because it's fucking hilarious that the original name of this album was U-2000 because it came out in the year 2000. Kind of a missed opportunity, TBIH. They did screw that up, didn't they? Album, again, produced by Brian Eno and Daniel Lenois,

back to form. I like stuck in a moment you can't get out of also. I know it's fucking sappy, but I like it. It's sappy. You two does sappy really well. That's their thing. Own your thing. They did. This is you two owning their thing. I think that's the perfect way to put it.

And another popular single was L-A-Shan. It's like you just can't not know these songs. I made a note for myself, the music of middle-aged surrender. Wow. But is it not? Like, triumphant surrender. Declaring victory and leaving, abandoning the field. Kind of, it's like, Bono's 40 now, you know?

Yes, it's not like waving the white fog surrender. It's more like, okay, like, we don't have to try to be something we're not. We don't have to keep forcing it or whatever, however you want to interpret it. But like, also the same thing that comes along with being 40 and being like, so tired. Just, it's a beautiful day. I don't know what you're talking about. It's a beautiful day. Don't let it slip away. You know, that's the vibe. This is kind of starts the era of the music of middle age surrender. But we will go on. All that you can't leave behind is an important moment, I think, in your career as a critic. Because while I don't think you were trusted with reviewing the actual album, you did do. Was it a preview of the elevation tour? It was. One of my first jobs, professional jobs, was freelancing for Scene Magazine in Cleveland

and Alt Weekly in Cleveland, Ohio as an intern there for a while. Shout out scene. I freelanced for them. You two comes to town. You know, there is a page of Cleveland scene that's here. The show is coming to town. It's like somebody has to write about the U2 show, even though it's sold out, you know, and there's no point in alerting anybody. If you don't know what's happening, you're not getting in. And I don't remember what I wrote. It is lost to history what I actually said. I don't think it was super mean or snarky. It was just like, you two's got a new album.

They're like super messianic. You know, like if you're into this, great, whatever. But this is the album that this is the little thing, the little blurb dude that I wrote that got the angriest letter to the editor I've ever received. And we have a special guest. Yeah, the person who wrote. It's the woman. The woman who wrote that angry letter to the editor, and it is my mother.

Welcome to the show, Barb Harvilla, also known by some as mom, not by me yet, but by Rob Harvilla, our guest. Thank you for joining us. Hi, Mom. Hi, Rob. I'm excited to be here, and I get the opportunity to talk about my favorite band and one of my two favorite sons. And your favorite son. Thank you. Yes.

Let me amend that. Thank you. Barb, the reason we wanted to have you on is I said this off mic, but while Rob Harvilla might be a Mr. Fancy Pants music critic, I don't think that he would have known anything if it wasn't for you. And specifically, he did mention that you took him to his first U2 concert. I did. I think he was about 14. And we just happened to have an extra ticket to the zoo TV concert, which was, is that, Ocun-U-1 or so?

That was A-Cun-Bab, yeah. 2001. I was trying to think of the album because they never, you know, correlated. But anyway, yep, so we had an extra ticket, and I was able to take him. And he had the time of his life. And I thought he was really impressed with you, too, which you should have been, you know, But at the time he seemed like he was. But then just a few short years later, after he went off to college and journalism school, he suddenly got sophisticated.

Yeah. Next thing I know, he was freelancing for a local Cleveland-like alternative paper. And he wrote this article trashing you to, I think it was prior to or after the elevator. How dare he, honestly? I know. I think he said. That's what I said. How dare?

I don't know if trashing is the way I would characterize it. I don't even, I have no memory of what I said. It was like a little tour preview of the elevation tour in Cleveland. And I was just like, oh, it's you two. It's sold out. If you like it, you'll have a great time. Like, it's you too. Like, I was, I was, I was nice.

I didn't trash them. I was, you know, it's, it's, it's, if you're into that, then, then great, you know, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, I thought. That's, that's not how I recall. Okay. Okay. Well, the important thing is that the next week, the paper ran an angry letter to the editor about me, about that article, written by my mother. Gorgeous. That's true. I, I, I believe it led the letters to the editor.

section, my editors were very excited to receive this letter and to run it, to publish it. I didn't they call you? And they're like, are you really Rob's mom? They thought that this was a prank at first, but you had to convince them. Yeah. They called me and they were super excited. I could tell. And they said, can we publish this? And I said, yeah, that's why I wrote it. And they did. Should we just have my mother read this letter? Is that the easiest way to do this? Sure. We'd love to hear her read this letter.

Okay. So it was in the scene magazine, and it was subtitled Harvilla, Call Your Mother. And I wrote, I have to question your criteria for hiring music writers. It seems that you have one too many young punks whose heads still stuck stuck in the Seattle brunch era, and who apparently know squad about good rock music. As a longtime YouTube fan, I have to take issue with Rob Harvilla's short-sighted preview of the Elevation Tour.

I was at the concert. It was one of several YouTube concerts I've attended, and I can assure you that the band is better than ever, and Bono is still a rock and roll god. I suppose we can't expect much from a writer whose favorite bands while growing up included Hall and Oates MC Hammer, and yes, even vanilla ice. But it's particularly disturbing to me since I bought Rob's very first concert ticket.

At the age of 14, he went to see you two and thought they were, in quotes, the bomb. Not the bomb. As parents, we do the best we can, but we can't control the direction our kids take when they grow up. This two shall pass. We'll still set a place for Rob at Thanksgiving dinner. Barb Hartfiela, Rob's mom. Honestly, really evolved of you to still allow Rob to come to Thanksgiving dinner after this egregious. Disrespect.

I thought so very much. Did I really say the bomb? I'm pretty sure, unless I just imagine. That checks out, Rob. It's 1991. Hey, yeah, that's, that is true. I think I said sweet a lot. My friends at the time said that I called every.

sweet. Hall and Oates takes like a stray shot in there. You know, like I feel bad for them. She basically called you a corny loser is what she did. She was like, my son, a known corny loser, has no place. Passing judgment on Rock God Bono. There's no comparison. Barb, I have to ask you, does your YouTube fandom endure to this day?

Oh my gosh, yes. It's interesting because I was like thinking back on all of this since I knew I was going to be coming on. And my very first concert was the Joshua Tree in 1987, I believe. We lived in St. Louis and my poor husband happened to work near the St. Louis hockey arena, which was called the Checkerdome. And he was also a YouTube hater. and he because he loves me, he stood in line forever at the checker dome to get tickets for myself and my family, my brothers, so that we could go to the concert. So that was a huge sacrifice on his part.

And we ended up in the very back row of the checker dome. It was the night of the seventh game of the World Series for the St. Louis Cardinals, who I love baseball almost as much as you too. but I just that was my first YouTube concert and I just remember I was blown away and and literally I was a little nervous because they came in with streets have no name and the you know the entire building was shaking I'm not kidding it was a Muslim wow see this is what we needed to hear a real fan the purity of a true fan's experience no it It's so true. And yeah, and that was my first and my very last concert was the Joshua Tree 30th anniversary tour. I went with you to that, Mom. Yes, you did.

And you seemed to enjoy yourself. What is your favorite U-2 album to date? Oh, my, I see. My brother once said that you two albums and songs are like your children. You don't. Who's a favorite? You trash them in public. No, you don't. You're the favorite and you love them all equally.

And he said that, I thought that was like equally profound and goofy at the same time. Well, Barb, you have been an iconic guest. And honestly, I kind of wish that we had had you do this entire episode. But sadly, we need to. We're stuck with your second favorite son, your songs of, your songs of experience, son, if you will. I'm sorry with your

kids. That's a good thing. Thanks, Mom. Thank you so much. No, I am,

you are so welcome. It was a pleasure to be with you and good luck for help with the rest of your interview. Career.

Thank you, Mom. With the rest of your career. It's great to see you. And your life, too. Yes. Love you.

I love you too. You guys are great. And, Yeah, enjoy. And we'll talk to you soon. Bye, Barb. Okay. Hi, Mom. Bye.

Bye. Did we want to play another song from this album? How do you feel? I think we need to talk about the Super Bowl. Can we talk about the Super Bowl? Oh, yes. Because this is, I, in retrospect, I think this is what people associate with this record. You two played the Super Bowl halftime show in February 2002.

America. In New Orleans. So this is less than half a year after 9-11. Okay. They played Beautiful Day. And they closed with where the streets have no name. For the vast majority of where the streets have no name, on giant screens behind them,

scrolled a list of the victims of 9-11. Yeah. I think there were actual towers of screens of names scrolling behind them. scrolling behind them for the vast majority of where the streets have no name. And at the conclusion of the song, like the dramatic, it's all I can do. Last moment, Bono lifts up his jacket, which has the American flag sewn into the lining. Okay. And I believe that is the shots that was later, that was soon on the cover of Time magazine

with the headline, Can Bono Save the World? Oh, boy. The answer is no. as you're well aware, if a headline has a question mark in it, the answer to the question is no. Oh, okay. Got it. But this is... That's a little inside baseball for you guys from a real journalist.

That's real journalism talk right there. You two sort of stumbled into their moment here. How was it received, Rob? Because I was in college and I was smoking pot and I didn't watch the Super Bowl because who cares? I think you had a very strong. visceral reaction to that moment and he was either profoundly positive or profoundly negative.

I do not begrudge you for watching that and just like this is fucking tacky and just wrong. That is a completely valid reaction but I if you have ever believed in the power of rock

to like unite people to bring people together you know in serenity and peace and just sort of overcome adversity. This is one of the moments where maybe it happens. If it's ever

going to happen... More importantly, Bono believes in the power. You know, like, it's a good fate. He's doing this in good faith. However it's interpreted, and that's fair, everyone can, much like this show, you may interpret it

how you will, but I am doing this in good faith, even if you hate me and all my takes and my annoying wist. You know, like, if anyone means it, if anyone is going to whip out their jacket with an American flag in it, that is, Bono. It's coming from his heart.

I always think about this record in tandem with the rising, with the Bruce Springsteen record, which I believe was actually a response to 9-11. Like that was recorded, it was released after, and it was specifically, like, let's pick ourselves up and move on. In retrospect, it's sort of remarkable how little rock music or music from that period even tried to take that on.

Totally. And so like you too is sort of grandfathered in because obviously the record along predates it. Like the Wilco, Wilco's Yankee Hotel Foxtrot is sort of vaguely associated with it, you know, in large part because there's a song called Ashes of American Flags. It's about Wilco's own personal, like, label adversity. Like, most of the records, I think, that are associated with 9-11 are tangential. The Wilco one came out before 9-11, so that was just a fake association that people put on it. Yeah.

And you, too, you know, had no actual visceral response, but still, like, this was the record. And Beautiful Day was sort of this song. that like some people needed flock to in that moment. And I was, I was moved at the time by that Super Bowl performance. Like I sort of understood inherently that it was corny to a degree and that it was, it's a lot, you know? And it's people, again, if you find it inappropriate, then it's inappropriate. Like it's, you're going to have a very strong reaction one way or another.

But like, I have come to chair. music that does that, you know, that stirs people or profoundly upsets people. And I think you two, at their boldest, you know, forces one reaction or another. Totally. I've always thought of all that you can't leave behind is sort of their second apex. I'd sort of Joshua Tree and Octum Baby is sort of their extreme prime. And then they sort of dipped a little bit and got weird. And this is a comeback, like a legitimately successful epic rock band comeback in like the twilight of a rock band sort of mattering on this scale at the Grammys. Yeah, in life in general.

With the critics, in life in general. Totally. Yeah, you're right. Rolling Stone called this their third masterpiece. After rattle and hums and passengers. And passengers. So I feel like how to dismantle. atomic bomb.

Much better than I remembered. I really associated it with Unos dos-trace Cotorce. Which... I think everyone does. Yes. I think that's... The song, Vertigo.

But also even Vertigo... It's a fun spry brash U2 song. I remember hearing it for the first time on the radio like driving around the Bay Area. I think I was driving home

from like a Y&T concert or something like some obnoxious metal band and the new U2 single came on the radio and I was like, wow, they're really, they're really going for it. Like, I don't know if I ever had that moment again going forward. Like, I don't know, do you personally find you two

to be funny? No. Youth? Yeah. Yeah. No. Not on purpose. Definitely not on purpose.

Right. Exactly. Yes. They're not funny or witty per se. But I do think, you know, starting with Uno Dos Trace Catoise.

Like this is just a fun U2 song. And they sound unburdened by any expectation or by their history. You know, they're just rocking out, you know, as, what is it?

They're like early 40s, mid 40s at this point, you know, but they're forever young. Yeah, about 44. Bono is. I guess they're on the same age. I think Vertigo is a nightclub

refers to a nightclub that they were at. A discotheque. Go-Tech, if you will. They were partying at Turn It Up Loud Captain. And they did. That's the second line of the afternoon. Noste-Tresi Cotorze. Again, not Uno dos trace Cotorce. Unos dos de Tres Cotrace. So just simply incorrect. The secret message. We'll never, it's about God, probably. I really like, and I think you chose it to Miracle Drug. Miracle Drug has one of the Bonoist lines in a You two song, which is

Freedom has a scent like the top of a newborn baby's head. Bono. Dash Bono. Let's hear Miracle Drug. I mean, I think everyone's probably heard Unostos Tres Cotorce.

But let's hear a miracle drug because I bet you far less people have heard this song. And it's actually besides the smell of the baby head lyric, which I don't particularly need to hear again. The song is good. This is Miracle Drug. Okay, that was Miracle Drug. I've bummed Rob Harvilla out and I will bum the rest of you out because you were probably like, yeah, I love that's beautiful. That's a beautiful. Once again, you two has bait and switched us where they're like, is this a love song? No bitch. This song, again, this is allegedly I'm calling someone was mean on Twitter about how I don't know all my facts straight. And I've simply never pretended to know anything. I've said at the top, middle and bottom of almost every episode that I am a moron. So if you're listening to this, that's on you.

Your freedom of choice and will. But it says on Genius that this song is about Bono's classmate when they were Weilads, who was born with a birth defect that I think his brain was deprived of some oxygen and rendered him paraplegic. And he also couldn't speak, which is why the lines are like, I want to know what's inside your head or go on inside your head. And then there were some medicine. was invented that allowed this classmate to start to communicate, hence the miracle drug.

So don't be mad at me. Come for genius if that's what you think. But that is what it says on genius. And he does, he does quote Jesus. The songs are in your eyes. I see them when you smile. I've seen enough. I'm not giving up on a miracle drug.

Yeah, this is legit. I mean, you know. That's the deal. You said it had the most Bono line, but I think you didn't realize that it's the most Bono song. Yes. Ministering to the flock, if you will. His name was Nolan. Okay.

What else is there to say about Atomic Bomb? I'll tell you, I have some things to say. I like this album. I like sometimes you can't make it on your own. I've had a dark week. Okay? We don't need to talk about it. We need to get into it.

I'm having some personal demons. And I was, you know, listening to more you two, as I have to do for to sound stupid on this show. Yeah, to work. And sometimes you can't make it on your own came on. And did I cry in my kitchen? Yes, I did. Well, I hope you are okay. That is a lovely image, though.

And I think that is the platonic idea of what you two wants to be. You two wants to be there for you in those moments. So that is, that is wonderful to hear. Again, the music. music of middle-aged surrender, which apparently you don't know anything about because you're just out here clinging to relevance. I think my mother just ended that for me. So yeah. But, you know, I like when someone Bono sweetly sings out of your sono speaker, Yasi, sometimes you can't make it on your own. And then you're like, I know I can't. I can't

do it myself. And you're right that they did their job with that. Yeah. City of Blinding, lights, I think, endures. Great song. It's just a classic U-2 live jam. Do they still play it, as far as you know? You know, that's, yes. I think if you're going to hear a song

from this album that's not Vertigo is likely to be that, or sometimes you can't make it on your own. I think those are the enduring jams. Bono said that this was their first rock. album. It's taken us 20 years or whatever it is, but this is our first rock album. And in my notes, I just have 22 question marks. Yeah, 22 sounds about right. Definitely more than 20. This album is more of a rock

album than like war. Sure. This tells you more about what Bono thinks rock music is or what Bono thinks pop music is, you know, and it's, his confusion is working for him, clearly, but that's very funny. He's a little vertigo, if you will. This is the sort of thing Bono has to say to, you know, sell people, you know, on whatever the 10th or whatever U2 album. Yeah, 11th. That's right. There's another quote from Bono that I also have a lot of question marks next to. I wanted to check where I was to where I am.

So I went back and listened to all the music that made me want to be in. a band, right? From the Buzzcox, Susie and the Banshees, Echo and the Bunnymen, all that stuff. And what was interesting was, that was what a lot of people in bands now are listening to anyway. So in a funny way, it made us completely contemporary.

Babe, what? I don't know if the kids would agree with you necessarily. I don't know if TV on the radio were jamming this record. Also, what if you went and listened to the Buzzcocks and then you were like, inspired.

Unos, Torres, Trace, Cotorze. Yes. Hello, hello. That's the pure buzzcocks. Sorry, we're how fun here

on this show. This is the very beginning of YouTube's collaboration with Apple. Like every U2 album up until this point, in the Wikipedia just says,

reviewed generally well. Anne Powers, former guest, who we love, but in the Wikipedia, she's listening. it as and powers of blender. Again, a time where it was a time.

She called this album a tour to force of tune and mood. And she's saying, because you two's sound has come to signify an open heart, it nearly always feels fresh the way a new flame does. Cue back to Yossi crying in the kitchen to sometimes you can't make it on your own. Yes. She said, Bono lyrically wields sentimentality like a switchblade. Gorgeous, gorgeous sentence. She's the best.

And that you two's music is so broad and welcoming. This is a generous take on a thing that I think you could be ungenerous about. U2's music is so broad. In Blender, certainly. Broad and welcoming. It can express ardor equally well for Christ, wives, supermodels, children, or Bishop Desmond Tutu. That's why she's the best. She's the goat, the greatest of all time.

I just wanted to read what she said about Vertigo because it's really good. Loads of listeners have already noted that opener Vertigo bears an odd resemblance to the Supremes, gorgeously desperate, you keep me hanging on. I'm sure Bono tried to play that up. That had never occurred to me, but sure. Except Vertigo is framed by a classic punk shoutdown. So maybe the bus conks thing. Where, get this, Bono's totally singing in Spanish.

Wait, he said Cotorce. It's a classic YouTube moment, worldly, frantic, irritatingly deliberate. And she said it's somehow, it's hopelessly appealing and somehow grows less stupid and more compelling with each listen, which is true. The more iPod ads you see, the more you like it. Much like Manspain. You two and Apple together forever. Rob.

Yeah. How old are you in 2009? I am 31. So you've been being a music critic for some time at this point. Yeah, about a decade of professional music criticism. You've hidden it from us if it. It's happened before, but did you review any of these other YouTube albums? Let's see.

I do believe that this, how to dismantle an atomic bomb, I was working in an Alt Weekly in the Bay Area in Emeryville, California. And I reviewed this album, but I also contacted my mother and had my mother write a little paragraph for each song. I remember this really stressed her out. but I sort of talked about my mom wrote an angry letter about me once so I wanted to get like an impartial or a very partial U2 fans experience as well

and so I asked her what she thought of it and of course she was very complimentary about all of it she liked Yahweh a lot she liked you know just the spiritual aspect of U2 is something my mom's always gravitated toward this is probably the first U2 record that I did review professionally

I think that's right. Okay, but it's not the one that I'm referring to, which is no line on the horizon. From 2009. Should we talk about your head? Did you write it? That's a good question. What is it?

No U2 Shadenfreude Baby by Rob Harvilla, March 11, 2009, The Village Voice. That doesn't sound like me, so I'm going to say that I did not write that. Tell me about this album. I always associate this album with the tour that supported it. The, I believe it was called the 360 degree tour. This is the album.

This is the tour with the claw stage. They built like this bonkers giant claw shaped stage. I think there were several iterations of it all driving around the country to their various shows. So they could perform in the round. So they could perform in 360 degrees. lots of articles at the time saying that even on days when you two were not performing, this tour cost them $750,000 a day. Oh, boy.

To keep running. So this is the height of U2 excess live. If there's a U2 album that's going to get lost a little bit, I think it might be this one. I believe Get On Your Boots is the lead single. No. No, what is it? No, it is.

That song is so... It's not a successful, you know, not a discotheque sort of gaudy disaster, but as you say, like, discotheque is more memorable. Oh, it's worse than disco tech. It's worse than disco tech. It's worse than discothe's. But it's... It's nondescript, right?

Like, they're not... You're not clear on what they're trying to do. There's no real ambition. They're not trying to sound like not themselves. Like, it's not as... interesting, which is part of what makes it worse. Yeah, it's... This song is ostensibly about war.

Okay? And yet, the refrain is, hey, sexy boots. We're mixing our metaphors a little bit here. And it's just bad. It's bad. The song is bad. It's bad. I remember walking around New York City listening to this record because I had to review it

professionally and moment of surrender is like one of their longest songs and I always like you two songs in which Brian Eno sings like you can hear him singing in the background I think they were going for sort of the sometimes you can't make it on your own type gravitas with this song as well and like I remember this one kind of striking me breathe I think breathe is like late

in the record but like as a B-side as like a rocking out type surprise, you know, spry U2 song. I remember breathed sort of grabbing me like sort of an echo of acrobat or whatever. But I think this album is lost a little bit in that no one song sort of transcends, you know, the way Vertigo did. And I, it's, this is sort of the height of U2's excess in terms of touring, like live. Like I was thinking, I was thinking.

I was thinking about cold play. As we do. As we all do. So Coldplay puts out a record, right? And like it doesn't really do anything. But cold play records at this point are excuses to tour. Like the point is that Coldplay goes out and does a huge tour and grudgingly plays six songs from their new record along with the 20 Coldplay

songs you actually want to hear. And yellow. Yeah, right. Exactly. But Coldplay announces that they're not going to tour. behind this new record because for environmental reasons that they can't countenance

launching an international year and a half long mega tour like the environmental destruction that would entail like they're sort of putting their money where their mouth is in terms of saying like we're going to leave X tens of millions of

dollars on the table by not touring by just putting out this record and just leaving it at that because we cannot countenance touring. I'm curious to see what U-2 does whenever you-2 can return the full

scale touring, how U-2 is going to deal with climate change and how Arena Rock as a whole is going to deal with climate change. And this is not sneaking up on YouTube. Like they've talked about it before. Like that's part of, you know, their activism. Not a huge part, I don't think, but like, you know,

and Radiohead has struggled a lot with this and has like changed their tour lighting, like they're stage lighting to try and be, you know, carbon neutral or whatever. But I, this, I, the excess of the claw of this era of you two, like, I don't think this is ever going to happen again. One, because like they didn't make any money despite, you know, selling out, you know, billions of arenas around the country for a year, year and a half. But it's, how is you two going to handle being an arena rock band, you know, in the 2020s is a pretty, fascinating question to me at least.

Did they not make any money? They did. There were a lot of articles about like they're losing money on this tour, which was bullshit. This was the highest grossing tour in history of all, not you two history, all tour history. Right. And it's just they spent way more money on this stage than they had to. Like nobody was coming to see the claw. Everybody was coming to like live through the six new songs and like get to where the streets have no name. Like they did more than they had.

totally. And they spent more, way more than they had to. That's kind of a really insane thought, though. This is the highest selling tour of all time. Well, they were the- They were the highest grossing touring act of like the 2010s, right? Like, according to Billboard, like they grossed a billion dollars from 2010 to 2020. You know, and it's for a bands that like people would say were a decade. or so past their prime. But like, no, not really.

They were like, hey, sexy boots, buy some tickets to our show. Yes. I'll remind you. Okay. You are being nicer about it now than you were in the Village Voice in 2009. Oh, dear. You didn't like it. Okay.

I was pretty grumpy back then. The first line is the new U-2 record is pretty lousy. Well, that's... That's nitpicking, isn't it? Yeah. Wow. I think that's a professional term of happy days. Really, using the parlance of the youth, I think, was to communicate. Four years of Midwestern collegiate study to get to pretty lousy. You also mentioned cold play in the first paragraph.

So truly, you're in personal reruns. Recycling my old shit. Yeah. Why don't we hear Breathe? Do you feel like that's a good one to land on? It's a really good song. You know what? This is like a stage where I hear a you two song like Breathe where I'm like, I really

like this song and then I imagine that it could have almost been better. You know? If it was like written earlier on. Do you know what I mean? Like there's like a little bit of like production stuff that I'm like, but anyways, it's still a really good song. Here is Breathe. That was Breathe.

Would you say this is stuff? planting the seeds of the YouTube backlash. I think that you two at this point were just regarded as, you know, enormously successful, like sort of dinosaurs at this point. Like, these are the guys who are just going to tour arenas for the rest of their lives, resting on their laurels, you know, putting out records that don't really do much. And then just going out there, you know, and playing the 25, the 30 songs that everyone wants to hear. I don't think that's what you two actually does or did.

Like, I think one thing you have to say about them is that, you know, the last time I did see them, they were doing sort of a Joshua Tree retrospective. But, like, I don't think they're overly leaning on nostalgia. I think they keep trying and they keep putting out new records and they keep, it clearly matters to them in a degree that I don't think it matters to a lot of rock bands that are their age. And like, there's not really a lot of people bands at their level. Like, even at half their level,

there's sort of a perfunctory quality to a lot of records, you know, that a rock band is putting out, you know, in the third decade of their career. And I think one thing you can say for you to is like, the albums matter to them clearly. If they don't matter to you, fine. But I think that you too, by this point in the public eye,

like if you're into them, you're super into them. And if you're not, then you're, you sort of ignoring them. Like, they're not up in your face. They're not on your phone, et cetera. You don't have to think about them if you don't want to think about them. And so there is a live or let live, you know, if you're into that kind of thing, then cool sort of quality to them.

I don't know if a backlash is brewing necessarily, but they're sort of out of sight, out of mind if you're not into it, you know, and everybody else is, is queuing up for tickets to see the claw. The claw. Your mom did. Prater Dillon says, did you personally, Rob, start the YouTube backlash,

like your mom claims. I don't think I can really take credit for that. No, I think my mom is either being too kind or too mean. And I can't decide which. But yeah, I don't think I can personally take credit for that.

Okay, so long story short, this album did. didn't do that well. The critics, still some people committed to giving it five stars. I'm looking at you, Rob Sheffield at Blender, Rolling Stone, like there was a lot of positive reviews. And there was yours and Pitchfork who did give it a 4.2, which I think we can all agree is a bad review. It won zero Grammys. Now, you two kind of takes a, I mean, they had taken five years between atomic bomb and no line on the horizon, which was, I think, the longest gap they had taken yet.

They took an even longer gap, five and a half years, to Songs of Innocence. So the only thing that I knew about this album is that it was produced by Danger Mouse. Talk to me, in fairness, there was like a weird five-year window where every album was produced by Danger Mouse. I don't know what the deal was, but...

He made one girl a song go, and then it was like off to the races for Danger Mouse. This album has a very strange reputation. This is the album you had to Google how to get off your fucking phone. This is the album that you two put on your phone without your consent. And this is the quintessential you to ploy. It gets a little dicey here. It gets a little dicey here. It gets pretty dicey because like you two's interests, you know, I'm sure you can find quotes of Bono rhapsodizing how rad the iPod the iPhone is. But like you two's interest in Apple is not technological. It's corporate. Like U2 respects the power that Apple has. You two approaches Steve Jobs approaches Tim Cook like a head of state. We're back to Bono, you know, as prime minister.

of the world. Yes, this is you two sending the world a friend request on Facebook. And this is you two not understanding. You know,

you can just see the meeting which is like, why don't we put this album on everyone's phone without their knowledge that'll be so cool. Everyone will be so appreciative. No one will talk shit

about this on the internet. This is going to be great. And they did it. And everyone's like, what the fuck did you do to my phone? how do I get this off my phone? And everyone was like, and it's just, it's such a U-2 fiasco.

I can't believe that I am saying this. But I feel that you two has been treated unfairly in this situation. Just a scotch, okay? If we remember the lens through which we look at Bono, which is in good faith, for better or for worse, like, is he misguided? Maybe. Is all of YouTube misguided?

Sure. I don't believe that it was like YouTube banging down Apple's door, and it was that one directional. I think Apple also recognized the awesome power of YouTube in the sense that they were like one of the largest musical acts in the world who also were benign in the sense that no one, or so they thought, they would not alienate anybody by aligning with them, you know. I mean, Apple paid for the album.

It wasn't free. Apple paid Universal for like a window of time to own the album and give it away to every. And apparently, I did a little digging. Apparently, it was like an iTunes glitch that it automatically downloaded to every phone. It was just simply supposed to be available for free. free. But because it was free, it downloaded into your iTunes. And this was like a time where I guess people were fiercely protective of their iTunes library. I don't know. They didn't want to sully their iTunes library. You were. You were one of the people that was like out in the

streets screaming, protesting. You sound pretty derisive about those people and I take offense. But yes. I typed in all the song titles. in lowercase, you know, just making sure all the metadata is correct. It just, it has to look right. So what were you one of those? My shit was all from fucking limewire and Napster. It had all sorts of disease on it.

And everything was smelled wrong. I just started laughing, picturing, like if this was pre-Iphone, like a paper boy being paid to go like house-to-house throwing the U-2 album into everyone's window. Through, with a brick, just taped to a brick. Yeah. Regardless of the me softening this blow a little bit or trying to, it's still corny as hell. It's corny as all hell. And it's pretty corny. In general, the marriage of YouTube and Apple is corny. It's not rock and roll. It's lame. 81 million iTunes listeners listen to the album. That's a lot in the first month of release. It's a lot of people. Bono called the album a gift.

from Apple to all their music customers. And they said they wanted to get the album to as many people as possible because that's what our band is all about. Okay. Here's what The Edge said, though. The Edge said. The Edge called the album launch incredibly subversive. It's really punk rock.

It's really disruptive. Babe, what? It's punk rock to put your album on everyone's Apple device. for free? Sir, what are you saying? Your song called The Miracle of Joey Ramon. Hold on. Listen. We have a lot to talk about here.

But I just want you to know that Bono did one up the edge. Okay. Where he said, I reject the notion that you two had given the album away for free at no cost. We were paid. I don't believe in free music. Music is a sacrament. Oh, boy. and you pay for sacraments.

For everyone at home in the Christian church, a religious ceremony, a ritual regarded it as imparting divine grace, such as baptism, the Eucharist, et cetera, et cetera. Anyways, everyone's lost it. The punchline is that Saws of Innocence is like their most personal album. You know, and he's back to writing about his mother and about being young in Ireland. It's just, there's so much discord between how this album was released

was sort of foisted on the populace and like what this album actually is or what they wanted it to be. You know, like this billions of angry blog posts about this album and this album. I may have even written a few myself. And it's just sort of completely at odds with the message of the record itself.

It's just, it's a very bizarre collision of capitalism and art and God. Just like zoom out a little. You too had already kind of lost the plot, I feel like, in other ways. Like this, this was, there was supposed to be another album that was like a companion to the no-line album called Songs of Ascent, kind of the way whatever Zeropa was, Talk to Doom Baby, simply never materialized. I think they were kind of shook because no-line. line was like, you know, again, the first album to actually get some overtly bad reviews where people were like, this is bad.

Yeah. Constantly delayed. That insane tour took two years and cost a bazillion dollars. Bono and the Edge had to go write the music and lyrics for the musical Spider-Man turn off the dark, which was itself fraught. A huge success. What's going on? I was too fast traveling.

The Hamilton of its time. There's a lot going on. There's a lot going on. But, you know, there's, I don't know, you tell me you're the music critic. You're the big man on campus. Did this album benefit from Danger Mouse? And Ryan Teter also gets involved here. Yeah, Ryan Tetter is hanging around now.

But he did one good thing, which I didn't realize. Because the song I like the most on this album is Every Breaking Lever. wave. Yeah. And he apparently really like whipped that one into shape for them. Because you can kind of tell, because it is kind of a pop song. Yeah. If you're going to do soaring Xeroxed arena rock, then Ryan Tedder is your guy. It is the guy. Yeah. Of One Direction? No, one republic. Forgive me. One direction, people. You saved yourself a lot of angry tweets. He wrote Halo by Beyonce, just Yes, he did. And then he wrote a Kelly Clarkson song. It was exactly like Halo and it was a big. Yeah. Big deal.

This is another record with, if you're willing to take the time with it, like a spry B-side. Again, like is it disruptive? Is it subversive? Is it punk rock? Like, no. No, it is not. There's a stretch there. Volcano Raised by Wolves, Cedarwood Road. Like those three songs, there's like an angst to those. songs like they're trying to get back to their angry young men that's not going to happen for guys who are now you know 50 50 plus you know who are you know aligned you know with a corporate superpower like again the dissonance of the message in the medium here is sort of a lot to overcome like but the last song on this record is just called the troubles you know like there's there's so much going on here and it is hard to sort of cut through the static but i think that if you do, like this is kind of a strikingly personal and angry and aggrieved you two record, you know, that is just completely at odds with how it's coming to you,

which is through your phone, whether you like it or not. Chris Richards of the Washington Post called it a rock and roll as dystopian junk mail, which is genius. That is. Okay. Rolling Stone gave it five stars, babe. Rolling Stone loved this record. Rolling Stone said this was the best record of the year.

David Frick. Mr. Frick. Yes. Right. No, Rolling Stone brought out the big guns for this record specifically. I do remember that. What about the song that's like you and I are rock and roll? Is it Volcano?

I think that's, yeah. Because that same line shows up again on the Kendrick Lamar song. The next album. Anyways, I don't want to harp on the bad reviews, which there were many. Yeah. Rob, can you pick one of those songs that you said that you really felt like, okay, it's personal, it's angry. There's like some good stuff happening here. Cedarwood Road, which is where, which is the house Bono grew up in primarily.

Like, yeah, I think Cedarwood Road is where, if you're going to make me listen to this record, I'm going to listen to this record. And that's the one that sort of strikes you is there's something very personal. personal and intense going on here. Okay. Here is Cedarwood Road. That was Cedarwood Road. Okay.

We're in the fucking home stretch, but literally, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. We've made it. We are on the 14th, or if you will, the Cotorsi album. You've been waiting so long. I have. It's true.

That wasn't off the cuff. It was worth it. It was worth it. it landed. They did something really smart, YouTube. And I want to know if you agree with me that you think it was really smart. So, after the debacle of

iPhone Gate, they do their innocence and experience tour. I'm sure it sold fine. People liked to go to YouTube shows still. Then in 2017, to sort of like cleanse the palette, wipe away the past,

they do the Joshua Tree Tour. Just sort of to be like, hey, remember you guys, you love you too. Everyone loves you too. Remember Joshua Tree is the best. It was fantastic. It was a fantastic. You two playing the Joshua Tree in full. It's like, yes. It's, it was, it was overwhelming. Like I want to say like they came out, I mean, you know, Cleveland football stadium, Brown Stadium. And they come out on your doctor pepper. Yeah, what giant, the Dr. Pepper, the size of my head. And they come out on like a little side stage. And the first on they play a Sunday. bloody Sunday. It's like, holy shit.

It's, yeah, it's just, it was, it was an overwhelming and like a religious experience, like genuinely. And like, again, like the mystery of a moment really struck me. You two had never been like a capital P political type band. Right. You know, like, I don't think it's very hard to tell where their heart lies, but like they're not like incendiary at all in their way. And so sort of finding their way in the Trump era is like sort of a tricky thing. thing for them, but I do think they struck this balance of like being fiery, you know,

and standing for something without really saying what this something was. Classic Bono. Classic Bono. It's like, but it imparted a gravity and it sort of used their catalog and their past. You know, this is a card they could play because, again, they hadn't overdone it. You know, they hadn't leaned too far on nostalgia and just sort of gone out. They didn't do this yet for Axton Baby, you know. they didn't do it for the unforgettable fire.

I will die if I miss that one. Literally, I'll pass away. The thing that they did somewhere... Should we go together with your mom? Me, you and my mom are going to that tour. At some point, they pulled out acrobatts. Like a song that they had never really played live, like even when they were touring in support of Octum Baby.

Like, they came back to that song. And they sort of identified that song. I don't know how explicitly they said this, but like, this is a song for this moment. You know, and like U2's angriest song resurfacing at this moment is, that's as strong a statement as they were willing to make. I mean, the Joshua Tree Tour was incredible, was an incredible moment. A genius move to be like, never forget. But as a palate cleanser, yes, very effective.

Do you think that Bono ever thinks about when he's onstage singing, how long must we sing this song for the 50th year in a row? For the billionth time. That it really was a self-fulfilling. I think that had occurred to him. Until you die, babe. Yeah. Okay, so the 14th album, Cotorzae. Songs of Experience, the partner, the William Blake,

to Songs of Edicons, came out December of 2017. I think Get Out of Your Own Way is a song that might hit you when you're standing in your kitchen at some point. Right. Yeah. That's a good song. I listen to it. You know when you're talking about like the message and the medium. and all about the last song.

This one didn't have the iPhone thing, and instead it has Kendrick Lamar and Haim, and I love Heim, and I love Kendrick Lamar. It's not that. It's just like, oh, it's, there's just, it's like a little, you know, we talked about, like, this was, those other albums were the, yeah, where they're like, we're friends with Heim.

We know Kendrick Lamar. We have a rap. The late Middle Age. of surrender. We know, yeah. They had never really done that. Yeah, it's true. Like, going all the way back to Octum Baby,

like, I don't know how inclined they were to, like, we have to respond to Nirvana. Like, we have to keep up with what's, they had never really done that, you know? Even pop did not feel necessarily like a reaction to whatever was popular in that moment. They've always been in their own universe. And so, yes, in that sense,

Reaching out to Kendrick Lamar, like, let's get a big rapper on this record. Like, yes, there is some flap sweat. We need a crossover type situation happening here. Yeah, maybe they started paying attention to what was going on, like contemporary music in like a really direct way. And like, I think that Kendrick Lamar song was in a different iteration on his own album before, right? On Damn, is that right?

Called Triple X. But yeah, yeah, there's good songs on this album. If you want, we can play one. You know, a song that struck me as I was the last time I listened to this record was it's near the end. It's called The Little Things That Give You Away. Oh, I like, I actually really like that song. The climax, sort of the outro, the coda of this song is very striking to me. It's another moment of vulnerability.

Like, Bono starts talking. Like, sometimes I wake at four in the morning where all the darkness is swarming and it covers me in fear. You know, I'm full of anger and grieving so far away from believing than any song. will reappear. Like, this is, I think Bono is about writers, weaponizes his self-doubt

very effectively throughout his career, but here again. A midlife crisis in an effective way. And again, you two has something to react to now.

Like, you two needs a hit. You know, you two want to come back. You two is hungry again. You know, like, do I expect you two to come back in 2022, 2022,

with like one of the five best U2 albums ever, like, no. Like, there's almost no chance of that happening, honestly. But that's a testament to how fantastic, you know, those top five records are. But like, I do think they're in a place again. And I think this song allows Bono

to admit that he's in a place again of like, maybe this is, you know, maybe we're on the down swing as far as our albums go. I mean, they'll tour forever, make billions of dollars forever, you know, until the sun. consumes us all. I am curious where they go from here and I do think that they are in sort of a vulnerable, wounded place that could bring about something interesting, you know, bring about something surprising. Totally. Yeah. I like this song. I think time will tell

if you're right about their next album, but a nicer way to save in life crisis as these are songs that are thinking about mortality, which this song definitely is. And I think a lot of the songs are, I think Bono had a near-death experience. Two near-death experiences, one where he had a bike accident and one which was vague and they won't say what it was. But anyways, here is the little things that give you away. That was the little things that give you away. Well, we've come to the end, the long winding road that is U2's incredibly large discography. And I hope you guys like me have a better understanding.

understanding of you two now and maybe a more generous one because I love you too and I even love them more now because I didn't I think I didn't even realize how how much good stuff there was all through the end. You know what I do? Podcasts of experience. Podcasts of innocence, podcasts of experience and the next one, podcasts of Ascent where I die and don't have to do this anymore. Okay. The fan voices are here. How long must we sing this? this song, this song of the fan voices. Let's do it. I am a closeted YouTube fan.

The most common thing I hear when I tell people that you two are my favorite band is, oh, I like them until or they were good until, which I love. That just tells me that the band has grown over 45 years. There are entry points for some people. There are exit points for other people. For me, I like all of it. I like everything they've done. the good and the bad, the cringy bits.

So I think this is quite the opposite of your typical cult favorite music snobbery of, well, I can't like this band anymore because they're too popular now. You know, the U2 fandom's not an exclusive club. We want to share this experience with everybody. I consider myself a pretty earnest guy, and so U2 really scratches that itch. It's not always cool, and it's not always favorably. looked upon earnestness, but really nobody does it better than YouTube.

They're just always doing the coolest things at the time when it's the most uncool. I was in the Tories team at U2.com with Brian and Ross, and now we run the U2Tours.com website. For me, you two are at their best when they're on stage. Our concerts are part rock show, part theatrical performance, part art installation, part religious experience. What made you two stand out from their early 80s peers and why the boy album was so unique was that they also had a strong sense of hopefulness and an uplifting, positive attitude

that came through in their lyrics and music. And seeing them live in a nightclub in the early 80s, Bono just oozed charisma as a natural frontman. And Edge was already a genius on guitar. There's this image of Bono as impenetrably pretentious. But I do think, which is rooted in reality, but I do think that that's really what separates them

from so many other bands. I mean, nobody does it any better. Nobody does grandeur any better. They really revel in it. In a moment where it's embarrassing to be cringe or reveal emotions to others that don't fit neatly into ironic detached online selves, being a fan of a band like you too

teaches me to embrace my big feelings and share them with others so I can connect with something larger than myself. All fandoms have their secret decoder rings, and the U-2 fandom is no different. There are callbacks and lyrics, and there's things happening on stage during concerts that only hardcore fans would notice. U-2, the earnest band that is probably weirder than everyone thinks,

but they also know how to do grandeur. better than everyone else. The way that I view the world is through the lens of Blink 122, mostly. I think there are a lot of similarities between YouTube and Blink 12. It's simple music that people love to dunk on, but it's also very, very sick. So I love you, Bono, I love you at the edge.

I love you, Larry and Adam. And, you know, Brian, you know, the whole extended YouTube fam, what's up, hit me up. Let's link and build. You two rocks. Bono, let's link and build. the lady who said that the YouTube fans really want you to join them

just made me think of like Jehovah's Witnesses. There is a door-to-door quality. As a wise woman once said, I am cringe, but I am free. But I am free. That was really the through line of YouTube fandom

and of this show and that really brings us to the end, I think. What more can we say besides we are, cringe. Rob, wow. That was just to hurt your mom. Sorry, Mom.

I hope she wrote to some lovers. Thank you for coming back on Bandsblane taking on the Herculean task of talking about you too with me, your best friend, Nassi. Anytime. Okay, next week.

See you. Well, let's go out with a song. Usually I would let you choose it, but since you made me skip the sweetest thing, because blah, blah, blah, it didn't come out. We're going to hear it. Let's do it.

At the end, because it's glorious. Please come back every Thursday for a new episode of Bansplain. How Long Must we sing the song. This next song and last song is the sweetest thing by you too. Goodbye. If you liked what you heard today, subscribe for more episodes of Bansplaine only on Spotify. Our excellent guest today, was Rob Harvilla. Follow him on Twitter at Harvilla. And our very special guest today was Rob's mom,

Barb Harvilla. Thank you, Barb. Huge, huge thanks to the YouTube mega fans you heard on this episode. Andy Waldron, John Crop, Chaziah Hughes, Mary Cypriani, and Patrick Hoskin. Vansplain is a Spotify original show. This episode was produced by the one I Cannot Live With or Without, producer Dylan, aka Dylan Tupper Rupert, and edited by Nico Paolela, with help from Casey Simonson and Tari Millen. Executive producers for Bansplain are Gina Delback and me, Yossi Salat. Our gorgeous and catchy theme song was composed and performed by Beth Nicocentino and Jennifer Claven and graciously recorded by Carlos de la Garza in Los Angeles, California. Special thanks to Felipe Gihermino, Robert Adler, Leah Edwards,

David McDonough, Dana Myerson, Jessica Hopper, and my red-framed Bono glasses. Come back every Thursday for a new episode of Bansplain. I'm going to pass away.